# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  21st Century Longhunter Kit

## Sparky93

As I have mentioned before I am a follower of Dave Canterbury's youtube channel. He recently made a new series on a 21st century longhunter kit and philosophy. I really like his thinking on creating a kit based on what our ancestors carried for hundreds of years using items that are simple and can be used for a multitude of tasks. Since I don't have the money to buy the fancy Duluth canvas packs he uses or the Duluth canvas tarp, I decided to build my budget longhunter kit using stuff I got for Christmas or already had.

Last night I camped out using the kit I put together, temps got down to about 40 or so and at about 3:00 the wind picked up and it rained for a while. The whole night I stayed nice and toasty with only a US surplus 55-45 wool blanket. It is not in the picture, but I built a reflector behind the fire to stay a little warmer.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Here is the blanket roll packed, I used some bungee straps to secure the roll and some rope for backpack straps. I plan on trying to weave a tumpline to replace the bungee cords and rope straps because without a jacket on the rope was almost unbearable.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Blanket roll unrolled

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Entire Kit laid out

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Item List:
.22 Winchester single shot
.22 Ammo
Wool Blanket
US army surplus shelter half
Two pairs of wool socks
Two pairs of wool gloves
Earmuffs
Random empty Altoids tin
Leather tinder bag
Two bungee cords
Tarred bank line
Skillet
Canteen, cup, and pouch
First aid kit
Handkerchief
Stainless steel fork knife and spoon kit
Bag of all purpose flour
Cans of spam
Belt knife
Mora Classic #2/0
Cold Steel Tomahawk
Fire kit in round tin
Head lamp
25' ridgeline

I learned I need more firewood than I thought I would to get through a night, I'll be sure not to let that happen again. I also have a surplus Finnish gas mask bag in the mail that I plan to use as a possibles bad. Once I get the possibles bag I will add more food items to the kit such as corn flour, eggs, bacon, spices, etc. I plan on changing out the steel skillet for cast iron and also adding a MSR pot to the kit.

----------


## hunter63

Looks like a heck of a start to me.....Love the "Random empty Altoids tin" listing.

"Yup, Yup, I got one, kinda a law or sumptin, but all the threads say I gotta have one".....LOL,
Hey don't worry you will find a use for it, like a fire steel, flint and char cloth container, maybe?

Did you find anything that you didn't need, at least this time?....and did you make a list of what you want to add besides the food and Finn gas mask bag....hey, they were a good deal for $3 bucks, got a couple myself, and do use one as a modern possibles bag for the in-line.

----------


## Sparky93

> Looks like a heck of a start to me.....Love the "Random empty Altoids tin" listing.
> 
> "Yup, Yup, I got one, kinda a law or sumptin, but all the threads say I gotta have one".....LOL,
> Hey don't worry you will find a use for it, like a fire steel, flint and char cloth container, maybe?
> 
> Did you find anything that you didn't need, at least this time?....and did you make a list of what you want to add besides the food and Finn gas mask bag....hey, they were a good deal for $3 bucks, got a couple myself, and do use one as a modern possibles bag for the in-line.


Actually the only thing I didn't use was luckily the first aid kit (and the random empty Altoids tin)

----------


## CoryD

I have a question.... why did you put the blanket on the outside of the roll? Wouldnt you want the shelter half on the outside to help keep things (the blanket)dry if traveling in the rain or using the grommets as attachment points for your rope? Or am I over thinking it? ( I know, that technically 2 questions) This looks to be an interesting thread, I like the idea of a longhunter kit as well.

----------


## hunter63

Back in the day, '50's we used a lot of surplus stuff, canteens, mess kits, mummy bags, shelter halves, wool blankets, musette packs, even a odd machete or two... all purchased as very low cost from a junk yard guy that just kinda kept this stuff around for the kids, I think.......Never forget those mummy bags, when they got wet smelled like sweat and chicken feathers.......

But the point is that you got out there, learned from the experience, and are willing to get out there again....and don't need a lot of expensive gear....way to go.

----------


## crashdive123

Well done Sparky.  Glad to see you're finding time to get out and away from school.

----------


## Sparky93

> I have a question.... why did you put the blanket on the outside of the roll? Wouldnt you want the shelter half on the outside to help keep things (the blanket)dry if traveling in the rain or using the grommets as attachment points for your rope? Or am I over thinking it? ( I know, that technically 2 questions) This looks to be an interesting thread, I like the idea of a longhunter kit as well.


My reasoning is that a blanket with a hole in it will still keep you warm, but if I crawl through some briers and rip my tarp it will leak. Probably not much of issue with the canvas tarp but if you were using a poly or nylon tarp you would definitely want the blanket on the outside. Also once you fold the shelter half it is a good 1 1/2 or 2 feet shorter than the wool blanket and the wool will dry quickly once you set up camp.

----------


## Sparky93

Here is a video on how to make a tumpline that I'd like to try before I head back to college.




And here is a link to Dave Canterbury's Youtube series that inspired my kit http://www.youtube.com/user/wilderne...3D89B23CDE649F

----------


## kyratshooter

Your efforts are a good exercise Sparky.

Some of us have been duplicating the life of the longhunter since Dave Canterbury was in boot camp.
http://www.bledsoesfair.com/gallery/...ion=view&gll=3


I have tons of information on making historic gear and places to buy what one can not easily make for himself.  Books, references and links.

If you can not afford a Deluth Pack check out this site.  It will give you some ideas for making the gear yourself from canvas available in the fabric department at Walmart.
http://www.colonialmarket.com/casada/knapsacks.html

Using what you have and items having multiple uses is a standard in the historical treking community.  The standard for most items is for each to have at least 3 uses.

----------


## Sparky93

> Your efforts are a good exercise Sparky.
> 
> Some of us have been duplicating the life of the longhunter since Dave Canterbury was in boot camp.
> http://www.bledsoesfair.com/gallery/...ion=view&gll=3
> 
> 
> I have tons of information on making historic gear and places to buy what one can not easily make for himself.  Books, references and links.
> 
> If you can not afford a Deluth Pack check out this site.  It will give you some ideas for making the gear yourself from canvas available in the fabric department at Walmart.
> ...


Thanks for the links, do you have any info on how to make oil cloth (I think that is what it is called)? I would like to make a ground sheet to keep my wool blanket off the ground.

----------


## kyratshooter

I have good info on oil cloth.  I have made it many times.  I will do a seperate thread in the making stuff section.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ecipe&p=324092

----------


## Sparky93

> I have good info on oil cloth.  I have made it many times.  I will do a seperate thread in the making stuff section.


Cool, thank you.

----------


## Rick

Great job, Sparky. I had to give you some rep. It doesn't matter a whit what anyone else thinks of your kit as long as it works for you. You've started down a long road that is lined on both sides with dollar signs. Choose wisely.

----------


## oldtrap59

Sparky ya did good. From what you say and what can be seen in your pics I would say you spent some time thinking your kit out. BTW I didn't notice that new knife in the kit. Hummmmm . Maybe I just overlooked it.:>)

Oldtrap

----------


## Sparky93

> Sparky ya did good. From what you say and what can be seen in your pics I would say you spent some time thinking your kit out. BTW I didn't notice that new knife in the kit. Hummmmm . Maybe I just overlooked it.:>)
> 
> Oldtrap


Top right under the gun barrel, I didn't get any pics using it cause my phone went dead though...
I was really impressed with the Cold steel frontier hawk, I cut some decent size fire wood with it pretty fast.

----------


## kyratshooter

> Great job, Sparky. I had to give you some rep. It doesn't matter a whit what anyone else thinks of your kit as long as it works for you. You've started down a long road that is lined on both sides with dollar signs. Choose wisely.


I agree and my gear is a strange mix of modern and historic, except when I am doing demonstrations at historic sites or reenactments.  You use what works and the more you study the old ways the more useful you will find that knowledge in the modern world.

----------


## postman

Looks like a nice kit Sparky, I've been watching Dave's video's as well and am thoroughly enjoying them. Been a fan of his video's for a few years now. I'm quite impressed with the versatility of that HR single shot shotgun he uses, I've been thinking of getting one myself. They're dirt cheap as well, saw one for 126.99 in the Lebaron catalogue. I'm sure Bass Pro and Cabellas have them as well.

----------


## Sparky93

> Looks like a nice kit Sparky, I've been watching Dave's video's as well and am thoroughly enjoying them. Been a fan of his video's for a few years now. I'm quite impressed with the versatility of that HR single shot shotgun he uses, I've been thinking of getting one myself. They're dirt cheap as well, saw one for 126.99 in the Lebaron catalogue. I'm sure Bass Pro and Cabellas have them as well.


I have a rifled one but I would also like to get one like his with the smooth bore and modified choke. I like my little single shot .22 but it is not quite as versatile as the 12 gauge. I wonder what the accuracy is of the little .22 adapter is he uses, i figure you would have to be pretty close because with no barrel the bullet can't be good very far....

----------


## SARKY

When I went through SERE school as a student, we didn't get packs to carry our gear. It was all rolled up in our raincoat and tied together with 550 cord using mostly a truckers hitch (knot)
Those damm 550 cords dug into our shoulders even with the strip of nylon webbing that was supposed to be our shoulder strap padding.

----------


## Rick

Paracord is the pits for carrying anything as a strap. It doesn't matter if it's over your shoulder or by hand. There are a couple of ways around it. None good but they help. 

1). Braid six to eight inches of cord to be used as a shoulder strap and/or handle. That will widen the surface area and help. I've used a separate piece of cord, braided it, then attach it to the paracord you used to wrap your roll. You'll have a loop on one end of the "handle" and two free lengths of cord on the other. Slide the paracord you are wrapping your bed roll with through the loop then loosely tie the other two ends on the handle around the pack cord. Not only will it widen the surface area but the constant movement of the pack cord against you shoulder with now slide over the handle instead of your shoulder. Use a Cobra stitch or, if you have enough extra paracord, a King Cobra will be wider. 

2). Construct the pack so part of it becomes your shoulder strap. 

I hope #1 makes sense. If it doesn't let me know and I'll try to post some pics.

----------


## TheWaywardOne

Your kit looks good.  I like the philosophy of the 21st longhunter series. Less is more, versatility, and such (the more you know, the less you have to carry, right?).  Looks like you were able to apply another part of the pathfinder "common man" approach by doing it on a budget.  Goes to show that you don't have to have a $300 pack or a $200 dollar axe.  As for the fire wood part, it's a lesson learned.  Firewood goes fast on a cold night.  I always liked the adage of gathering what you think you need and then tripling it.

----------


## Sparky93

> Paracord is the pits for carrying anything as a strap. It doesn't matter if it's over your shoulder or by hand. There are a couple of ways around it. None good but they help. 
> 
> 1). Braid six to eight inches of cord to be used as a shoulder strap and/or handle. That will widen the surface area and help. I've used a separate piece of cord, braided it, then attach it to the paracord you used to wrap your roll. You'll have a loop on one end of the "handle" and two free lengths of cord on the other. Slide the paracord you are wrapping your bed roll with through the loop then loosely tie the other two ends on the handle around the pack cord. Not only will it widen the surface area but the constant movement of the pack cord against you shoulder with now slide over the handle instead of your shoulder. Use a Cobra stitch or, if you have enough extra paracord, a King Cobra will be wider. 
> 
> 2). Construct the pack so part of it becomes your shoulder strap. 
> 
> I hope #1 makes sense. If it doesn't let me know and I'll try to post some pics.


If you had enough cord you could do something like a 6 or more strand flat braid

----------


## hunter63

Guy once told me.....don't burn all your wood too soon...night is long and cold (I have seen big bon fires that burn out too soon)....and always save one green log to keep the fire smoldering till morning.....(so you don't have to start over again).
Was good advice.

----------


## Rick

If you mean 6 strands wide(?) it would take quite a bit of paracord and I think it would tend to fold in half longways. Technically, there's no reason you couldn't but it would take a lot of paracord. It takes about 25 feet to do a King Cobra six inches long...give or take. But rather than do that you'd be better off making something completely different like a Ten-Strand Twill Sinnet. There are all sorts of variations from four strands up. Flat Sinnets are sort of like braiding hair except they come out flat and wide. You really don't need it that wide. A King Cobra will work just fine.

----------


## Highhawk1948

Excellent.  A Long Hunter was looked up to and revered.

----------


## kyratshooter

This is a link to a site with instructions for finger weaving.  You can use as many strands as you wish and the woven object will come out as a flat strap.  I have done as many as 12 strands wide.  It takes a while but gives you the strap you need and plenty of cordage to use if needed.

http://www.nativetech.org/finger/beltinstr.html

You do not have to use 550 cord.  Jute twine, cotton or nylon will do the job too.

I also have found that when wide strapping is needed on the cheap, Harbor Freight keeps towing straps on sale most of the time and even at their regular price they are not so expensive that cutting one up and melting the ends to use for straps causes a guilty conscience.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-1...rap-36608.html

----------


## Sparky93

> If you mean 6 strands wide(?) it would take quite a bit of paracord and I think it would tend to fold in half longways. Technically, there's no reason you couldn't but it would take a lot of paracord. It takes about 25 feet to do a King Cobra six inches long...give or take. But rather than do that you'd be better off making something completely different like a Ten-Strand Twill Sinnet. There are all sorts of variations from four strands up. Flat Sinnets are sort of like braiding hair except they come out flat and wide. You really don't need it that wide. A King Cobra will work just fine.


From the research I have done you lose about 25% in the weave, so for a 6 strand weave  5 feet long you would need about 38' of rope. I just got the stuff tonight to weave a jute tumpline for my blanket roll and also picked up a little cast iron skillet.

----------


## jake abraham

interesting post I like the tumpline video thanks

----------


## Rick

Sparky it's way more than that. 10 feet of line goes into a bracelet 7 inches long. Off the top of my head it's 25 feet for a King Cobra the same length. For that size of weave you might be looking at 380 feet, not 38.

I put something like 77 feet in a Cobra stitch belt. No, wait, that's not fair. My belt is 400 inches around. Never mind.

----------


## oldtrap59

Thankyou kyrat for the site on weaving. I for one have never been very handy when it comes to that art but this site seems to put all their instructions very simply. Going to give it a shot tommorow.I got alot of baling twine pieces hanging out in the shed. Think I'll try some practice with that. Then maybe use something a bit better.

Oldtrap

----------


## Rick

Tying knots is a lost art form. A carryover from a time when everyone lived every day with knots of some kind. Not many know how to tie even some of the most useful. It's a shame really since you can make things so much simpler by knowing how to tie the right knot. 

I've posted before but the bible on knots is Ashley's Book of Knots. It has over 5000 knots displayed along with the instructions on how to tie each one. It's not cheap. I paid around $50 for my copy. But what a treasure trove of information.

----------


## Sparky93

> Sparky it's way more than that. 10 feet of line goes into a bracelet 7 inches long. Off the top of my head it's 25 feet for a King Cobra the same length. For that size of weave you might be looking at 380 feet, not 38.
> 
> I put something like 77 feet in a Cobra stitch belt. No, wait, that's not fair. My belt is 400 inches around. Never mind.


I thing we are talking about two different things, this is a finger weave ( I call it a flat weave)

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Everything I have seen on it says you lose 25% in the weave, I agree the cobra weave uses a lot more cordage but that is kind of what it is designed to do.

----------


## Rick

Oh, sorry. Your reference was to the flat weave. Mea Culpa. That may be a true number. I haven't down any type of flat weave in a long time. Did a belt back in 1898 or so.

----------


## brow_tines

is that a Winchester Model 67 ?

----------


## Sparky93

> is that a Winchester Model 67 ?


Yes sir, it tis.

----------


## hunter63

It seems that the world was just falling apart till 550 cord was invented?....LOL.

I was looking just last nite at a macrame belt that DW had made back in the 1970's, wondering how I could repurpose into a rifle sling....wold have to dye it as it's white.....thinking maybe the dyeing tips from KRS thread on canvas might give me some clues.
It was made out of heavy cotton string.

factory i worked at use all different sizes for centers of wire rope....endless supply on string.....too bad, it's a parking lot now.....

----------


## brow_tines

I really like watching the 21st century Longhunter series but, 1 thing I don't know if I agree with him on is the shotgun.  In a "survival" situation, if you have the shotgun and 2 boxes of shells or a pound of powder and a pound of bb's and primers, how many 22 shells could you replace with the same weight? several hundred? And in a "survival" situation I think a 22 would kill a deer with the correct shot placement.  Just my humble opinion

BTW very nice rifle  :Wink:

----------


## Rick

Ah yes. The proverbial which gun is better. The one you have.

----------


## hunter63

Dave had a vid on reloading a cut down shotgun brass with black powder, by putting a primer in it, then just dumping powder down the barrel, and loading like a muzzleloader.

I would never even try this, so I do have to question some of his ideas.....kinda like trying too hard, for the sake of making a vid.
JMHO

----------


## Sparky93

> I really like watching the 21st century Longhunter series but, 1 thing I don't know if I agree with him on is the shotgun.  In a "survival" situation, if you have the shotgun and 2 boxes of shells or a pound of powder and a pound of bb's and primers, how many 22 shells could you replace with the same weight? several hundred? And in a "survival" situation I think a 22 would kill a deer with the correct shot placement.  Just my humble opinion
> 
> BTW very nice rifle


I think he chose the shotgun for more of a SHTF situation than a survival situation, he figures a 12 gauge to be one of the more common calibers to find. Which is also why he has that adapter plug for .22. That way if society spirals out of control he can scavenge for ammo and have good odds of finding 12 gauge ammo or .22 or black powder and primers.

----------


## Sparky93

> Dave had a vid on reloading a cut down shotgun brass with black powder, by putting a primer in it, then just dumping powder down the barrel, and loading like a muzzleloader.
> 
> I would never even try this, so I do have to question some of his ideas.....kinda like trying too hard, for the sake of making a vid.
> JMHO


I agree, I would never try this unless I had to.But it is interesting to think about if you had no other option in a SHTF situation.

----------


## aflineman

> ..... also adding a MSR pot to the kit.


You might look at a teapot instead. I find myself wanting one more and more when I am out. It will probably be the next thing I add to my longer outing kit (which doubles as my in the car bag so I have it for those spur of the moment trips).

----------


## sh4d0wm4573ri7

I like Dave , his gear, videos , site are all outstanding, his philosophy I have used for year.

----------


## Rick

Sparky - You have a canteen there do you also have a canteen cup and stove? I use my canteen cup for just about everything.

----------


## Sparky93

> Sparky - You have a canteen there do you also have a canteen cup and stove? I use my canteen cup for just about everything.


I got the cup, but I plan on getting a lid and stove on my next trip to the surplus store.

----------


## postman

Just bought the H.R. single shot 12 guage shotgun, the same one Dave uses in his videos. Paid 114.95 at SAIL, a new store here in the GTA, near Bass Pro in Vaughn. Absolutely beautiful store, and they have everything from ski's, to snow shoes, to hunting and fishing. Haven't shot it yet, but I'll let you know what I think when I do.

----------


## kyratshooter

Always remember that when we look at the longhunter we feel we are in the land of "make do" because their equipment is so outdated.  We put ourselves at a disadvantage to a great extent by trying to use too much of what we think their gear was, or the type gear we have that copies them.  In many cases we do not know what they used for common tasks.  They did not see fit to leave us that information.

Oilcloth is good stuff, but camo colored silicon coated nylon ($10 from Walmart) is better and weighs a fraction of the oilcloth.  Wool blankets are neat, but Hollowfill keeps you warmer at night and costs less.  Don't even try to get me started on the difference between Moccasins and my L.L. Bean canoe boots or Gortex Rockys!  I have been using and comparing both for 50 years and know of what I speak. 

Please do not purposely downgrade your equipment because "that was when the longhunters used".       

They were using state of the art gear for their time.  Can you imagine what Boone would have given for a Mossburg 500 at the Boonesboro battle in 1777, or what Crockett would have given for an AK at the Alamo?   Crocket had just upgraded "Betsey" from a flinter to a caplock before he split from TN to Texas.  He was very much interested in the latest in firearms technology! 

They were also not on foot carrying everything they owned on their backs.  They had strings of up to 200 pack horses, often traveled by boat and hunted in groups of up to 20 men.    

Do not get trapped in the "Mindset of the Longhunter", or what some modern person thinks that mindset was.  They were market hunters and Indian fighters wiping out both game and native people where ever they found them.  They left little record of what they thought and the educated people that traveled among them were not impressed by their lifestyle or nature.  Our take on them is mostly resulting from the romantic writers of the mid-1800s and has no connection to the people in question.

What Dave C. is spouting is the philosophy of James Fenamore Cooper, not the nature of Lewis Wetzel, Simon Kenton, Kasper Mansker or the Bledsoe Brothers.  It is not a bad philosophy, but it is not the "code of the longhunter".  There was no such thing.  Dave is a retired soldier, not a historian.

Use what you have the best way you know how.

----------


## lucznik

> Always remember that when we look at the longhunter we feel we are in the land of "make do" because their equipment is so outdated.  We put ourselves at a disadvantage to a great extent by trying to use too much of what we think their gear was, or the type gear we have that copies them.  In many cases we do not know what they used for common tasks.  They did not see fit to leave us that information.
> 
> Oilcloth is good stuff, but camo colored silicon coated nylon ($10 from Walmart) is better and weighs a fraction of the oilcloth.  Wool blankets are neat, but Hollowfill keeps you warmer at night and costs less.  Don't even try to get me started on the difference between Moccasins and my L.L. Bean canoe boots or Gortex Rockys!  I have been using and comparing both for 50 years and know of what I speak. 
> 
> Please do not purposely downgrade your equipment because "that was when the longhunters used".       
> 
> They were using state of the art gear for their time.  Can you imagine what Boone would have given for a Mossburg 500 at the Boonesboro battle in 1777, or what Crockett would have given for an AK at the Alamo?   Crocket had just upgraded "Betsey" from a flinter to a caplock before he split from TN to Texas.  He was very much interested in the latest in firearms technology! 
> 
> They were also not on foot carrying everything they owned on their backs.  They had strings of up to 200 pack horses, often traveled by boat and hunted in groups of up to 20 men.    
> ...


Well said.

----------

