# Prepping / Emergency Preparedness > Bags, Kits and Vehicles >  Kamel's General Discussion

## Kamel

The following is copy and pasted from a different forum

Hey /trv/ going camping with my girlfriend. Yah just camping at a campground but Im making a back pack filled with survival essentials, for just in case emergencies which ill keep in the car. im on a budget and try to go cheap so, links to cheap stuff is appreciated.

What i have:
waterproof matches
Knife, just a regular lockblade
2 ponchos
Emergency Blanket
3 person tent (in the van not pack)
Queen size air mattress (in van)
hand Pump (may borrow a battery pump, in van)
Mosquitoe repellant coils and spray repellant
Glow sticks
4 plastic utensils of spoons, knifes and spoons
Baggies

What I want:
Folding shovel and pick
Hatchet
saw
Paracord (links to cheap but good stuff would be nice)
Multi-tool
Flint and starter i plan on getting soon.
MRE's. i have an army surplus in town so no problem there except theyre 8 bucks a meal
Handcrank flashlight (anyone have opinions on handcrank cell phone chargers and long it takes?)

Anything else? I plan on also bringing granola bars and other assorted foods in the pack.

I live in Minnesota and im from texas, so im new to snow, so if i ever get a bad wreck in the winter, i wanna be ready if im in the middle of no where. thanks guys. if this belongs somewhere else lemme know.

Also im kinda drunk, so sorry for bad grammar or errors. also for the mattress I have a comforter and sheet in a duffel bag in the back seat, also 2 jackets, 1 leather 1 windbreaker. And a basket of clothes, shirts, boxers and pants, for wet moments. Also I have a cooler, a grill, charcoal and lighter fluid.
Im also gunna borrow a propane stove, 2 stove top and 2 propane tanks, tiny coleman ones

*insert member post here with suggestions*

well the folding shovel is also why i want it, to dig out snow. but yah the air mattress was only 25 bucks on sale at dunhams sports, i hid it behind some other thing cause it was on clearance and wanted to double check with the woman before i bought it, sat in the same spot for 2 days haha. good deal id say. we carry a cell phone and ipod touch. any good apps for survival? thats why i asked about hand crank cell chargers. fix a flat is a good idea, thanks. Also note, im banned from walmart, so dont tell me to go there lol unless its that good, my gf can go in and get it.

I hate having a van but turning it into a RV is so easy. take the 2 back seats out. blow up a mattress add some mosquitoe netting to windows, BAM.

Tools Ive been meaning to get, but i dont want to get a 200 piece set for 25 bucks, ive had to change my starter and alternator in the last 3 months and its not fun with those sets.

thanks for suggestions, keep em coming

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## dizralph

I read something like, "The more you know, the less you need to carry."

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## Kamel

> I read something like, "The more you know, the less you need to carry."


yah true, thats why Im packing the van and the back pack. Van for the bigger stuff incase of a wreck, and back pack for trekking

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## Rick

Perhaps something this important would warrant working on it when sober. After the hangover subsides you might want to give it another look and let us know if that's what you really have.

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## Kamel

> Perhaps something this important would warrant working on it when sober. After the hangover subsides you might want to give it another look and let us know if that's what you really have.


lol, i wasnt that drunk. That is the stuff I have currently lol

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## Sarge47

I don't see a "hong" listed.     :Cool2:

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## hunter63

Wet paint, Wet Paint, Wet paint.
Good luck with that.

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## crashdive123

Personally I don't believe there are other forums, but for the sake of argument.....What kind of answers did you get on that other forum?

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## Wildthang

All you need to survive in the wild with your women is a hong! You put it on, and once she see's your raw animal magnetism, she will forage for sandwitches, build all of the campfires, find all of the wood, and be your women slave as long as you are wearing that hong! Just ask Rick if you dont beleive me :Smartass:

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## 1stimestar

If you are packing for an off road wreck in a MN winter, most of that stuff doesn't apply.  Once it gets to snowing, put a snow shovel in the van.  A folding shovel really wont move much snow.  Put a pair of winter boots in the back, even if you are just going to the store.  Get a pair just to leave in the van because really, you need them when you least expect it.  Coat, hats, gloves, chemical hand warmers, and a crank flashlight should also be standard winter gear that you should keep in your vehicle all winter long.

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## Celticwarrior

How long is the trip? What kind of weather are you expecting? How 'rough' is your girlfriend willing to go when camping? (I'd guess not very since you have the air mattress and all). What kind of campground (State/federal, or KOA/Family private)?

In a private campground, there are usually stores and such to get extra stuff if you need it. If it is a state/federal then you probably have nothing but an ice machine and firewood sales up at the host or the office, so you have to pack in everything you need. 

Here are my suggestions:

What i have:
 waterproof matches  (These are ok, but sometimes hard to strike. A good refillable Zippo lighter would be better in the long run)
 Knife, just a regular lockblade (Both of you should carry a knife, just in case)
 2 ponchos  (Emergency ponchos are pretty flimsy, but good for a day pack. A cheap rain suit can be had for $5 or so at the Dollar General/Family Dollar type stores)
 Emergency Blanket  (Again, good for day packs, but they won't hold up past a day or two of use. You might be better getting a thicker thermal blanket with grommets)
 3 person tent (in the van not pack) (Good choice. Make sure you have a decently large rainfly or tarp to put over it if it storms. Most flys are too small and rain gets in with wind)
 Queen size air mattress (in van)  (Make sure you have plenty of patch kits)
 Mosquitoe repellant coils and spray repellant (Coils to very little, same with candles. Get some good lotion/DEET, and a couple of cans of OFF ground fogger spray.)
 Glow sticks  (Again, good for emergency use since they don't use batteries, but they only last a few hours. Get a couple of cheap LED flashlights for daily use)
 4 plastic utensils of spoons, knifes and spoons (Not bad, but they will break quickly. Check REI's website for the 4 pack of Sporks for $10. Lexan will last a lifetime.
 Baggies (Don't cheap out here. Get quart and gallon name brand FREEZER bags. They will last longer and be much more durable for every use.)

What I want:
 Folding shovel and pick (Here is a good version for packing. Relatively cheap, good multi-tool capability. http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...ure%206%20Tool ) This also takes care of the next two items off your list, all for $16 bucks. Not bad.
 Hatchet
 saw
 Paracord (links to cheap but good stuff would be nice) (Any army surplus, or http://knives.budk.com/search?w=paracord )
 Multi-tool (Depends on the tools you are looking for, but a nice Leatherman Wave or Surge is good. Cheap versions like Husky can be found at Home Depot and such.)
 Flint and starter i plan on getting soon. (http://knives.budk.com/search?w=fire...iker&asug=fire or http://firesteel.com/ )
 MRE's. i have an army surplus in town so no problem there except theyre 8 bucks a meal (You'd be better off with dehydrated. http://beprepared.com/quickshoplist....ouse%20Pouches )
 Handcrank flashlight (anyone have opinions on handcrank cell phone chargers and long it takes?) (Any sporting good dept. like walmart, kmart, target, etc. has these.)
Anything else? I plan on also bringing granola bars and other assorted foods in the pack. (Quaker granola bars, slim jims, hard candies, MIO drink flavoring, etc. are all good)
Also for the mattress I have a comforter and sheet in a duffel bag in the back seat, also 2 jackets, 1 leather 1 windbreaker. And a basket of clothes, shirts, boxers and pants, for wet moments. Also I have a cooler, a grill, charcoal and lighter fluid. (For Minnesota fall/winter camping, you better take a LOT more warm clothing and blankets. I'd put in at least 2 more wool blend blankets, a decent double-person sleeping bag, some long johns, hunting socks, and decent cold/wet weather outerwear with liners, including mittens and hats/balaclavas. Decent waterproof/insulated boots for outside and a pair of camp mocs or slippers would probably be a good idea to round off the list. Check your local Mil Surplus store or go to http://sportsmansguide.com/sitemap/MilitaryHQ.asp for some decent deals on good military gear on the cheap.)
 Im also gunna borrow a propane stove, 2 stove top and 2 propane tanks, tiny coleman ones (Make sure you also get some starter gel, since propane stoves, esp small ones, are usually finicky when it comes to starting in colder weather. Keep the fuel in an area that is warmer than the outside temps in winter. 
 Well the folding shovel is also why i want it, to dig out snow. (The small E-Tools like the one I linked can do the job if needed, but you would be better off with http://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-Subzer...374817-9572442 with its bigger scoop and longer handle length.)

Hope that helps. Good luck on the camping trip.

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## NightShade

Unless I missed it, I saw no mention of water purification.... Or water at all, for that matter.
That's kinda an important one.

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## Kamel

Awesome thanks guys. The other forum I only got 1 response. Idk about a hong, haha. shes native american 100% and loves camping, I bought the air mattress cause it was cheaper than 2/1 big sleeping bags. Water purification I totally forgot about lol stupid. Thanks for the link to the multi tool (shovel, axe and saw) 

our camping trips will prolly be from 2 days to 1 week at camp grounds but me and buddy plan on going back packing, he's a scout leader so he knows a bit more.

The winter clothing tips are appreciated, ill get those packed when I have more money in october.


Anyway I added more to my HAVE list today

Folding saw (borrowing)
I got the propane stove
A swiss army knife.
LED headlamp and 1 cheap flashlight

Also on this 2 day camping trip. its our first together so ill see how she is outdoors haha. I was planning on mucking around the wood and making a shelter just for the fun of it.

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## Rick

See? I told you things would look different when you sobered up.

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## Kamel

lol, thanks rick. "the more you know" :P

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## wildWoman

> 3 person tent (in the van not pack) (Good choice. Make sure you have a decently large rainfly or tarp to put over it if it storms. Most flys are too small and rain gets in with wind)


Regarding CW's comment - you already have the tent and most of the gear, and obviously I don't know what quality it is. But one piece of advise I have add: buy good equipment. If you find out on this trip or the next trip with your buddy that any of your gear isn't waterproof, weighs a ton or is flimsy to the point of uselessness, replace it as you can. 
Decent gear doesn't actually cost the world, you can get a good tent that doesn't need an extra tarp over the fly for not that much more money than you pay for Coleman cr**. www.mec.ca for example has good gear, so does the Sierra Trading Post. Same goes for sleeping bags and pads, also the weight of a backpack and boots can make a huge difference in how much energy you're wasting on a trip. It doesn't have to be fancy top of the line stuff, just don't buy camping gear at Wal-Mart (not assuming that you did, but I know that people do  :Smile:  ).
Enjoy.

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## Kamel

Like I said, im banned from walmart (theft for mucinex cause i had bronchitis and was broke, 10 dollars i stole, banned forever. they got it back to. w/e lol) Ive got mot of my stuff from:

http://www.dunhamssports.com/
http://www.gandermountain.com/
http://www.fleetfarm.com/

all 3 are local stores, big corporations but in my town

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## Rick

Hopefully, a lesson learned. Anyway....

When you go camping keep a list of the things you have but didn't use and things you needed but didn't have. Add to your gear from the didn't have list. Do that each time you go out and before long you'll have a pack that is right for you. Any of us can tell you what you need based on our experience and location but you need to build a pack that is right for you. Tailored to your knowledge, skills and geography.

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## Sarge47

> Like I said, im banned from walmart (theft for mucinex cause i had bronchitis and was broke, 10 dollars i stole, banned forever. they got it back to. w/e lol) Ive got mot of my stuff from:
> 
> http://www.dunhamssports.com/
> http://www.gandermountain.com/
> http://www.fleetfarm.com/
> 
> all 3 are local stores, big corporations but in my town


First, stealing is bad, so I hope you learned your lesson.  Second, If you ever need medicine there are always local charities that will help like Loaves and Fishes, Catholic Charities, Salvation Army and so on.  Do you have any friends, like perhaps your GF, that can go into Walmart?  If so have them/her check out what you might need and have them/her buy them/it for you.  You can also order from Walmart online at Walmart.com.  Just some ideas, hope they help.   :Smartass:

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## wildWoman

> Do you have any friends, like perhaps your GF, that can go into Walmart?  If so have them/her check out what you might need and have them/her buy them/it for you.  You can also order from Walmart online at Walmart.com.


Noooooooo, do not waste any money on crappy gear from Walmart and the likes when you can get equipment that actually works for more than two days for similar money from many camping stores! 
Don't be like the dude at the campground this spring who came over to my campsite and asked me if my tent was waterproof. He'd spent around $130 for a Coleman tent at some supermarket bargain store and then had to spend another $20 for a tarp to keep the bloody thing dry. His jaw dropped to his toes when I told him that my 15-year old tent has never leaked. He was totally amazed that there are tents out there that don't require a flappy blue platic tarp to be strung over them.

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## Rick

One of my tents is a Coleman Montana 6. I love it and we've never had a problem with it. Coleman makes some good gear, too. I have stoves and lanterns that are as old as me and still work quite well (better than me I'm afraid). Tents are just another tool. You have to figure out how you want to use them and then go from there. I wouldn't use it on a trip to S. America but for around here for week-end jaunts with the grand kids it's just fine.

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## wildWoman

Yeah, we have a couple Coleman stoves and lanterns, too  :Smile:  Still wouldn't be the brand of tent I'd get, but it's all a matter of preference.

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## Sarge47

> Yeah, we have a couple Coleman stoves and lanterns, too  Still wouldn't be the brand of tent I'd get, but it's all a matter of preference.


I have several different types of Coleman tents.  One is a "pop-up" design that allows you to set it up really quick...it needs a tarp.  However the other two are a lot better.  One is a three room cabin tent to be used when car camping.  The other is a "dome" tent with taped seams and is really good in adverse weather.  However I don't do any backpacking.  If I did I'd probably use the Coleman dome tent.     :Thumbup: 

The Coleman tents have fiberglass poles used in their setups.  they hold up quite well.  A dear friend of mine honeymooned with his new wife at the Cornerstone Festival one year and used an off-brand...Ozark Trails or some such shoddy piece of equipment.  The fiberglass poles broke right away and they had to buy a new tent.  Wal-mart was the closet place for them to go on such short notice so that's where they went.  I advised them to leave the off-brand tents alone and buy a Coleman.  They did and had no more trouble.  You get what you pay for.     :Cool2:

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## wildWoman

Oh sure, for car camping you can use pretty much anything ... worst case, you sleep in the car.




> You get what you pay for.


Yep, that's why my Moss tent ist still going strong after 15 years of use  :Smile:

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## Rick

I wouldn't use it where you are or along the Inside Passage where rain is a perpetual event. But here it works fine. Don't get me wrong, I have much better tents and when I'm out alone or with my DW one or the other of those goes with us. But I don't have to worry about blizzards and buckets around here. The only rain I got in while in Alaska was rafting the Talkeetna. It was a 7 incher in one day. That was rain!

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## Sarge47

> Oh sure, for car camping you can use pretty much anything ... worst case, you sleep in the car.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that's why my Moss tent ist still going strong after 15 years of use


Moss tents rock!     :Punk:   :Thumbup:   :band: 

Too bad the company has been bought out by MSR after Mr. Moss' death:

http://www.oregonphotos.com/Moss Tents-1.html

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## wildWoman

Yeah, I wish I had bought another one before before the company disappeared, just to replace mine with eventually ... but that might have been an unnecessary purchase anyway. This one just won't die  :Smile: 

Around home 341.jpg

Around home 242.jpg

Atlin Lake 016.jpg

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## Sarge47

> Yeah, I wish I had bought another one before before the company disappeared, just to replace mine with eventually ... but that might have been an unnecessary purchase anyway. This one just won't die 
> 
> Around home 341.jpg
> 
> Around home 242.jpg
> 
> Atlin Lake 016.jpg


The late Mr. Ross designed and built tents for several expeditions, including some of those done by Jacques Clouseau.  His basic concept of design was the same design used on old church windows for there strength and support.  He was an engineering genius.   :Thumbup1:

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## Kamel

> Hopefully, a lesson learned. Anyway....
> 
> When you go camping keep a list of the things you have but didn't use and things you needed but didn't have. Add to your gear from the didn't have list. Do that each time you go out and before long you'll have a pack that is right for you. Any of us can tell you what you need based on our experience and location but you need to build a pack that is right for you. Tailored to your knowledge, skills and geography.


Great tip. thanks. Also our 2 day camping trip went good, she did well. we made knives and I made a club with split-wood technique i saw in a survival guide book i downloaded to her ipod. Its not pretty but it was sturdy, my knots and stuff could be a bit better and the wrapping could be cleaner. Ill post a pic.PICT0290.jpg

I wont be buying mosquitoe coils ever again, things are terrible and im definately gunna look into a bigger and better tent. Ive seen people mentioning Moss tents but they got bought out? We have a 3 person tent i got on clearance at Dunhams sports for 25 but i can tell it definitely wouldnt hold up in rain. So a recommendation for a good tent would be great. Coleman is looking popular from you guys. Anyways, thanks for the tips guy, you guys are awesome. also yes my gf can go into walmart. but like someone else said, we should be buying cheap equipment.

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## Sarge47

> Great tip. thanks. Also our 2 day camping trip went good, she did well. we made knives and I made a club with split-wood technique i saw in a survival guide book i downloaded to her ipod. Its not pretty but it was sturdy, my knots and stuff could be a bit better and the wrapping could be cleaner. Ill post a pic.PICT0290.jpg
> 
> I wont be buying mosquitoe coils ever again, things are terrible and im definately gunna look into a bigger and better tent. Ive seen people mentioning Moss tents but they got bought out? We have a 3 person tent i got on clearance at Dunhams sports for 25 but i can tell it definitely wouldnt hold up in rain. So a recommendation for a good tent would be great. Anyways, thanks for the tips guy, you guys are awesome. also yes my gf can go into walmart. but like someone else said, we should be buying cheap equipment.


You did it dude!  Boots in the field!  I'm proud of you and that's a fact!  I've never used a mosquito coil, but I do use Deep Woods Off insect repellent.  Citronella candles can help as well.  Moss tents were very expensive, $350 and up!  But they were worth every penny!  MSR has bought out the company, and they aren't cheap/low cost either:    

http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/tents/category.  

One good place to shop for a tent is Sierra Trading Post.  They sell close outs at a greatly reduced rate.
Here's a Kelty tent marked down a bit.  Kelty is one of the best companies out there for outdoor gear:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/kel...colorFamily=01 

You get the idea.  You like using the internet for Survival info, use it for comparison shopping!      :Chef:

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## Kamel

thanks, i quoted you to my gf when we were out there. i made the club when she was napping she woke to me slamming and wedging the rock in the stick haha. that looks to be a good tent, 4 person should be perfect.

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## Sarge47

REI sells tents, their own line as well as MSR and other famous makers.  North Face, Mountain Hardware, etc..  Good luck and happy hunting!

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## Kamel

Alright, im looking for one now, like i said we wont have a good chunk of change till october, she gets 15 grand a year for graduating HS. So we'll prolly buy some decent stuff then. Or atleast until I have a job aswell and pay all my fines and get my drivers license back ha.

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## Rick

Sounds like you had a good time. Don't worry about pretty. Just practice. If it works it doesn't really matter what it looks like. 

The last time I used a mosquito coil was at the drive in and I was with.....well, it doesn't really matter. Suffice it to say it was a loooong time ago. Not many outdoor drive ins left.

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## hunter63

Good on you to just get out there, you will find out what works and what won't in short order.....but you never know till you try.

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## Kamel

Yah, Ive been watching instructional videos on here. Think ill try making char cloth for the hell of it next time, looked pretty sweet.

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## Sarge47

A tent is going to be your biggest and most important buy.  It can protect you from the elements as long as you apply the proper know-how in setting it up, as well as where to set it up.  Top of the line tents are pretty pricey, but you can get good medium quality tents for less and still make out all right.  Whichever you decide on, set that as your goal and start saving!  I'd rather be in the woods with just a tent than have everything else but no shelter in bad weather.  True, you can make a shelter, but learning how to do it properly takes time and the right weather to determine if it will stay dry.  In warmer weather you can get by with a nice tarp and no tent, but that's just another thought.  When you buy a tent, look for a rain fly that comes all the way down to the ground, not one that looks like a cute little "bonnet" sitting on top of it!  That won't protect you at all.  Also on the rain fly look for taped seams.  If it doesn't have that you'll need to get some seam sealer and seal them yourself.  Also, on the tent itself you want "bathtub floors."  You can read up on all of this at the REI website I posted earlier.     :Mellow:

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## Sarge47

Guess I forgot to post the REI site.     :Blushing:     Here ya go, scroll down to find what you want, some good reading here:

http://www.rei.com/learn

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## Kamel

Will do sarge, thanks for the help! never heard of bathtub floors lol. and yeah our tent is guilt of the pretty little bonnet.

Ill post more pics for the hell of it

PICT0284.jpgPICT0289.jpgPICT0293.jpgPICT0323.jpg

We ate good, you can see our fire grill, i got it from a Pot and pan set and that was in there. I figured it would work to be over the coals for hot dogs and such. The food you see is, just potatoes, onion, and 2 packs of 79cent ham and bell peppers. My gf's knife, i added serrated bits to it later to make it look knifey haha, ofcourse it was more of a prison shank than anything else and the lake we were near. was a nice little campground, we were the only ones with a "primitive site" despite being only a few yards away from rv's and sites with electric and water.

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## Sarge47

> Will do sarge, thanks for the help! never heard of bathtub floors lol. and yeah our tent is guilt of the pretty little bonnet.
> 
> Ill post more pics for the hell of it
> 
> PICT0284.jpgPICT0289.jpgPICT0293.jpgPICT0323.jpg
> 
> We ate good, you can see our fire grill, i got it from a Pot and pan set and that was in there. I figured it would work to be over the coals for hot dogs and such. The food you see is, just potatoes, onion, and 2 packs of 79cent ham and bell peppers. My gf's knife, i added serrated bits to it later to make it look knifey haha, ofcourse it was more of a prison shank than anything else and the lake we were near. was a nice little campground, we were the only ones with a "primitive site" despite being only a few yards away from rv's and sites with electric and water.


1st, thanks for the pics, I'm really enjoying them.

2nd, forget the serrated edge, serrated is over-rated.

3rd, chow looks great!  I'm getting hungry.

4th, if you haven't already got them get a fishing license and a pole.  That lake looks great for fishing for supper!

5th, great idea with the grill as a fire base!  Keeps the area safe!  You get points for that one to!

Overall, nice job for a beginning adventure!     :Cool2:

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## Kamel

The serrated edge was just for looks lol. and if youre talking about the metal around the fire, sadly it was already there and i wish i could take credit. lol. but yah this place is great, but thanks sarge and everyone else. I might just keep posting stuff in my thread as I go along instead of making alot of threads. Yah were definitely getting fishing licenses, she gets her for free from the reservation mines 38. Good notherners in that lake.

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## Sarge47

Positive Rep sent!     :Cool2:

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## Kamel

Bump, Celtic, if you read this, Have you used the Venture 6 tool? (http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...ure%206%20Tool) Is the axe and saw blade reasonably sharp? Im going to guess yes, since you recommended it. also, to attach the different heads, do they pop on and off, screw on and off?

I think I might pick this up to.

http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...hone%20Adapter

seems like a decent deal.

and water purification

http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...e%20of%2020%29

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## Rick

The Katadyn pills take 4 hours to work in clear water. Turbid and/or cold will take longer. They use Chlorine Dioxide and they are great if you can treat your water overnight or if you are allergic to iodine. They don't leave a taste in the water. However, if you are on the move or want your water treated quicker then go with Potable Aqua. They use Titrable Iodine and take 30 minutes in clear water, longer if turbid or cold. If you don't like the iodine taste you can add something like Tang or other powdered drinks to the water AFTER it has been treated.

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## brotherjohn

Wow $38! Non-Resident? Around here the fish come with mercury poisoning warnings from streams and rivers with water unfit to drink...but people have lush weed free lawns...UTOPIA!

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## Kamel

Yep "non-resident" even tho ive lived here for a year. Alrighty Rick, Ive added to my cart instead

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## Celticwarrior

> Bump, Celtic, if you read this, Have you used the Venture 6 tool? (http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...ure%206%20Tool) Is the axe and saw blade reasonably sharp? Im going to guess yes, since you recommended it. also, to attach the different heads, do they pop on and off, screw on and off?
> 
> I think I might pick this up to.
> 
> http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...hone%20Adapter
> 
> seems like a decent deal.
> 
> and water purification
> ...


It isn't the best tool for any of the specific jobs, like any multi-tool, but it is serviceable for each. The unit I have may be slightly different than the one available now, but the axe and shovel blades did not come sharpened. I sharpened mine when I got them, several years ago, and they have worked fine since. I regularly resharpen all my tools after each outing when they have been used. On mine, the different heads pop on and off using a pressure pin. You push it into the handle, through the hole in the tool head, and that detaches the head so you can put a new one on. My unit came with axe/hammer head, shovel blade, saw blade, and long knife/spear blade interchangable heads. This one doesn't list the knife/spear, but it looks identical otherwise, so it is probably the same. For a multi-tool, it is a really good little unit and has some extras like bottle opener/nail puller notches on the tool heads for added versatility. I don't abuse it and it has cut wood, sawed branches and dug trenches/holes for me for years now. It rattles a bit, because the pins have gotten a little loose over time, but it still holds up. I wouldn't say throw away your good Gerber hatchet or something, but if you are looking at a minimalist approach that has full functionality, it is much like carrying a Leatherman or SAK. Certainly carrying a separate knife, can opener, screwdriver set and so on would give you better quality tools, but it would also take up more room and weigh a whole lot more. For what it is, this thing has been a decent addition to my pack for a long time. The quality is what you would expect from a 'made in china' product, but overall it's a pretty good tool, and when it finally fails I figure I'll go buy another one. I got my $13 bucks (or whatever I paid for it) out of it a long time ago.

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## Kamel

Awesome. Ill be getting one then. Then I can give back the plastic folding camp saw and wont have to ask about a good hatchet to carry along with. Recommend a good field sharpener?

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## Rick

We have lush weed free lawns (or did before the drought) and the runoff goes directly in the lake. The fish are tested and so far no problems. No limits on who or how much eaten. It makes a difference in *how* you do stuff.

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## Kamel

Rick, better get me a Mora Robust ready :P I had a few things in my cart but i guess it doesnt save for that long

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## crashdive123

The thing about lush, green lawns is that they are a great filter to keep things OUT of the water supply.  Used properly, fertilizers will not harm the water supply.  When it comes to fertilizers and pesticides the old saying "if a little bit is good, more is better" is not true.

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## Kamel

What kind of pain reliever is recommended to take along? Advil, ibuprofen, tylenol?

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## Sarge47

> What kind of pain reliever is recommended to take along? Advil, ibuprofen, tylenol?


On my "Homework" thread you said that you couldn't get out to do the assignment, so now go on line and do your homework!  Study what each med is used for, here's the 1st one:  ibuprofen is used for kidney ailments and excessive use can lead to liver damage.  Now the rest is up to you!     :Euro:

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## Kamel

ahh, good idea. I just wanted something for burns and cuts. So ill look into it

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## Celticwarrior

> The thing about lush, green lawns is that they are a great filter to keep things OUT of the water supply.  Used properly, fertilizers will not harm the water supply.  When it comes to fertilizers and pesticides the old saying "if a little bit is good, more is better" is not true.


Many lawn fertilizers are now sold that are phosphorus-free, which makes them safe for the water supply and prevent runoff from feeding algae blooms. When looking on the bag, there are 3 numbers (i.e.: 25-0-4 or 10-10-10). The first is nitrogen, the second is phosphorus, and the third is potassium. Starter fertilizers for helping lawns start growing from seed and develop new roots, or agricultural fertilizers for farm use (usually the ones that have 3 of the same number, like 10-10-10, 12-12-12, 19-19-19) are allowed to have phosphorus, but many states have made laws to only allow phosphate-free lawn fertilizers to protect the water supplies.

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## Rick

Kamal - Apririn, Ibuprofen and Tylenol (acetominiphen) are different medications designed to do different things. You need to understand what each does and how it does it in order to evaluate its place in your kit.

Aspirin is a nonsteroidal anti-inflamatory (NSAID) but works much differently than other NSAIDs. While it is effective in pain relief the best application for it today is probably as a preventative for heart attacks and strokes. it works well at controlling fever and pain in adults but can cause Reye's Syndrome in children. If you have gout or kidney disease, don't use it because it restricts the kidney's ability to excrete uric acid. It can also increase the risk of intestinal bleeding. 

Ibuprofen, another NSAID, works really well to reduce pain and inflamation as well as fever. It works very well on menstrual cramps and strained muscles. That's why it's used in products like Midol. It can be a problem for folks taking other NSAIDS, have ulcers, *drink*, smoke or have high blood pressure. Ibuprofen can increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes under certain conditions. 

Acetominiphen will also reduce pain and fever but has no impact on swelling. *If you drink* then this one isn't a good choice for you because it can cause liver damage.

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## Kamel

Aspirin it is! lol thanks rick "The more you knooooow"

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## Kamel

Oh hi there.

PICT0330.jpg

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## Rick

Looks like someone found those 35mm film canisters.

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## Kamel

Yep the guy asked what they were for, and i put the cotton balls and Vaseline and i said "These". he didnt have anything to say after that. prolly got weird thoughts.

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## Kamel

PICT0331.jpg
Newest purchases, minus the cigar cutter. 2 headlamps, 3 LED flashlights, 10 bucks. And Cutlery set, 8.99.

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## Rick

He's probably sitting at his kitchen table right now with a film canister, jar of Vaseline and a cotton ball thinking, "What can you possibly make with those three?"

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## crashdive123

Add a firesteel and what could possibly go wrong in the kitchen.....right H63?

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## hunter63

Call out the Fire department....
They called me the other day, and ask if I was gonna do anything with my fire starting/stove building practice, and ask me nicely not to..... as the were enough other Dumasses out there to keep them busy.....

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## Kamel

haha, right. well thanks guys for liking me enough to post in my thread :P. I like the random chatter

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## Rick

I've almost pulled the trigger on the sporks a few times. It seems an interesting setup to me. The only thing that's held me back is the length but I see they've come out with longer sporks and even serving sporks now. Kinda hard to get a short spork inside some packages for the last of the goodies.

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## Kamel

They had a really big serving spoon at gander mtn, i was like holy crap why is it so big, then i read it, I was like, oh okay thats why

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## Celticwarrior

> I've almost pulled the trigger on the sporks a few times. It seems an interesting setup to me. The only thing that's held me back is the length but I see they've come out with longer sporks and even serving sporks now. Kinda hard to get a short spork inside some packages for the last of the goodies.


I have a titanium spork in my pack with my titanium cookset. I have cheap lexan sporks http://www.rei.com/product/784705/light-my-fire-spork  in my Emergency Supply BOBs that I keep for family and guests, and in my vehicle BOBs with my cheap Stainless mess kits. I carry these stainless multitool type utensil sets in my other packs and BOBs http://www.walmart.com/ip/19718066

Walmart also has that large spork: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Backpacker...nsils/19887352

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## Kamel

Celtic, Thats the same sporks as I posted, 4 for 8.99. same brand and its the same brand as my ferrorod to.

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## Rick

I use all the new fangled stuff, too. 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## hunter63

I guess I'm cheap......but I still pack those KFC sporks, napkin, salt pepper  that come with you carry out......spoon kinda hard to scoop with, though.

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## hunter63

I do have a couple of these combos....in the BOB's....not this brand, but similar....

http://www.knifecountryusa.com/store...ing-combo.html

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## Sarge47

I bought a 4-pack of the  Light-My-Fire plastic sporks as well, but carry the Titanium one in my pack for myself.       :Chinese:

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## Kamel

Went canoeing today, this is my second time ever canoeing, first time I went, my buddy KNEW how to canoe, me and my gf DO NOT. We made it a bit down the lake but not much, were bad at turning and keeping it going straight. well, pretty much, we dont know how to canoe, but I didnt drop anything in the lake like Rick :P @ of the pics were taken from inside a baggie, were buying a GoPro camera soon so 1080p videos will be coming your way. I cant upload these images or img tag them so heres the links

My buddies dock floated away, we have yet to get out and fix it

http://i45.tinypic.com/sc52ts.jpg

Thy Canoe

http://i46.tinypic.com/nrpqq.jpg

Bad pic from inside the baggie, but this is what we saw floating in the middle of the lake. Sorry, this part of the lake isnt as exciting as crashes kayaking area :P

http://i49.tinypic.com/f5604n.jpg

Well thought id share, nothing spectacular, just need a new camera, and learn how to canoe better lol. 

Also, if a Mod or admin could please change the name of this thread to Kamel's General Discussion thread or something, cause its no loner about my pack per say. Id rather ask all my questions here instead of making new threads and cluttering up the place. also i know i can change it my self, but when I hit view new posts, it doesnt have the updated thread name, thanks guys

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## Rick

The name has been changed. Good brand name on the canoe.

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## Kamel

Thanks Rick! Oh, really? Its my buddies moms. good to know im learning in quality  :Smile:

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## Sarge47

Here's a tip, to go straight in the canoe your GF paddles on the opposite side of the canoe that you do and at about the same size stroke.  Work on it.  To turn the canoe you both paddle on the same side of the canoe...Paddle on the left to turn right and vice versa...if I'm remembering right!    :Smartass:

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## Kamel

Thats what we were doing, but we probably didnt match our strokes lol

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## hunter63

It's nor really necessary to be on opposite side after you know what your are doing, nor is it necessary to switch sides.
Just take practice, sounds like a lot of different stuff but it really is pretty basic....and what is more fun the fooling with boats....leave the guns at home.

Look up canoe paddling, strokes etc.....
Here is a start:
http://paddling.about.com/od/paddlin...noe_Basics.htm

While you are at it look up, canoe self rescue;
A start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3zb9It7ECY

Best doing these stuff in hot weather, rather than cold weather......LOL

Have fun

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## wholsomback

Well when you buy junk you get junk,lesson learned too many times.

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## Kamel

What are you referring to? or just throwing it out there, and thanks hunter for the links  :Smile:  will watch when my gf gets home

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## hunter63

Oh yeah, best to tell the life guard on duty that you are gonna practice canoe self rescue, before they rush out to save you...of course the 20 something young lady, had to do mouth to mouth for 35 minutes or so.....LOL

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## Kamel

haha yah, my friend lives on a private lake, so no life guards for us. i dont know if that is a good or bad thing, seeing as im a great swimmer and my gf doggy paddles and panics when she cant touch....

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## Batch

I wouldn't knock the cheap tents and what not for car or truck camping. It allows newbies to get into camping. 

My wife didn't know any better and bought me an Ozark Trail camping package. It came with a tent, 4 sleeping bags, and 4 camp chairs.

The chairs were crap but worked. The sleeping bags are adequate for South Florida most of the time. I have used a cheap fleece bivy inside the same bag in the two times temperatures have dipped below like 45.

I retired the cheap tent this year after at-least 5 years maybe 7 years of service because it was quicker to set up and break down by myself than my other tents. 

It worked fine down here where we get more than 60" of rain a year. In heavy gusts it leaked and the tent poles bowed. That was in 60 MPH winds and a driving rain. 

If you are tent camping near a car. Just get out there and have fun. The gear will fill the gaps and your going to buy a lot of crap you don't need. If you are tent camping with hot showers and all the other amenities. Just get what you can afford and go camp. You'll learn to buy what you need.

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## hunter63

Good advice. there is always room for improvement, but you won't know till you try.......

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## Kamel

Just got a good deal on 2 stainless steel water bottles with hooks on them, 2 for 5 bucks. usually find the good ones for 12 bucks. Also combined 3 of our fav seasonings into one plastic season bottle. Garlic powder, Season Salt and Onion powder. I thought it was a nifty idea. lol, Trying to get the GoPro Waterproof camera at best Buy for 200. Its exactly what I need but sadly we cant get approved for the financing of it so it will have to wait. only 36 bucks a month to. oh well. Unless someone wants to order it for me and we'll make payments to you :P It sucks not having credit. My girlfriend gets 900 bucks a month from the reservation, 600 dollars every 2 weeks from work. I think we can afford 35 bucks, freaking best buy :P

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## crashdive123

Kamel - I've got some unsolicited advice for you.

1.  Make sure that your stainless steel bottles are not double walled if you plan on heating things directly in them.  Double walled will expand, rupture (potentially violently) if you heat them over a flame/fire.

2.  Don't finance things that you don't need to finance.  Being debt free is an important part of preparing and a liberating feeling.  Obviously you will need to finance some things at various points, but a camera may not be a wise idea.  Save for those types of purchases and buy them when you are able.

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## hunter63

Just a little more advice...
Survival is getting by on your own hook....have you considered a job?

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## Kamel

My girlfriend is working on getting me a job where she is. I dont get alot of interviews, despite having alot of experience in construction, landscaping and fast food, even if i do get a interview I never get call backs. Ill check the bottles, thanks for the tip. Yah I know financing isnt good idea, but 36 bucks a month with no interest for 6 months, not bad. But yah. Im working on a job but its tough as well because my girlfriend doesnt know how to drive and she works a 20 minute drive away. So, it causes trouble with me getting a job

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## hunter63

....LOL, gotcha....Be nice to the GF.........

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## Kamel

I am, its our 1 year anniversary today. took her out to lunch and went to a flea market and some garage sales. found a big cooler for 3 bucks at a thrift store. then im going to the liquor store, 50 bucks for mowing my friends moms yard. Glad my GF isnt expensive lol. also the bottles cant be heated it says. thats a downer

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## grokh5499

I would recommend you have a little of each of the three pain meds. I am sure come that time of the month your girl friend will thank you for it, and my personal experience I prefer to use different pain meds for "different" pains. Also If you are fighting a fever it can be helpful to alternate from tylenol and ibuprofen( or so the pediatrician tells me) since both lower fever but in different ways.  You can put a mailing label with the dosage info, expiration date, lot, and instructions, and brand on a ziplock bag and add them to your first aid kit.  I don't know how many times I have had coworkers ask if anyone in the office had xyz med and out comes my pocket first aid kit.

Congrats on your anniversary.

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## Kamel

Nice man, that is a good idea, throw some midol in it to like you said. ill make sure to label that one real good. lol

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## hunter63

> I would recommend you have a little of each of the three pain meds. I am sure come that time of the month your girl friend will thank you for it, and my personal experience I prefer to use different pain meds for "different" pains. Also If you are fighting a fever it can be helpful to alternate from tylenol and ibuprofen( or so the pediatrician tells me) since both lower fever but in different ways.  You can put a mailing label with the dosage info, expiration date, lot, and instructions, and brand on a ziplock bag and add them to your first aid kit.  I don't know how many times I have had coworkers ask if anyone in the office had xyz med and out comes my pocket first aid kit.
> 
> Congrats on your anniversary.


Good advice, but be remember, pills in bags can be big trouble........

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## Rick

"Son, I thought you said there was nothin' in the car. What's this?" (holds up baggie of tylenol)
"Tylenol." 
"Looks like Oxy to me. You sure this ain't Oxy?"
"It's Tylenol."
"Turn around for me and put your hands behind your back. The lab is open on Monday. You'll have a nice stay this week-end on our tab. If it IS Tylenol, gosh, my bad."

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## Kamel

Oh man, thatd be so bad lol

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## grokh5499

lol, yeah, sorry about that. Well you can always find the small itty bitty bottles and add those so you don't have a huge amount to carry around. Then they wouldn't get pulverized either...

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## Kamel

hey guys, just letting you know im still here and read everyday, were in the process of buying a house so things have been busy. And we havent had extra cash or the right days off to even go camping/hiking. were on a diet to and going to the gym everyday. i forgot who said it but im not one of "the kids who come here stay for a month or a few weeks and then leave" lol i think it was rick.

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## crashdive123

Good to see you still here.  I guess the job front has improved if you are buying a house.

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## Kamel

Yah, itsa nice little house, 41900, only 720 sqft but they got it real nice lookin and mortgage will only be 327 a month

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## hunter63

Good to hear from you, seems thing are going well?........

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## crashdive123

Kamel - not trying to be a wet blanket or anything, but consider the other expenses that go along with home ownership.  (insurance, property taxes, electric, sewer, gas, upkeep, etc.)  Going from both of you not working to apparently at least one of you working now and jumping right into buying a house is a mighty big leap.

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## Kamel

Oh I understand. She has a job and im looking, shes also getting that 15 grand in october, so we'll be able to pay our mortgage a few months in advance. and she gets around 800 a month from the reservation. I think were gunna be ok. It is a big leap tho, were just sick of renting and not being able to be loud after 10pm lol.

And yah hunter, everything is going good. Been applying everywhere, Eva got a job as a chef at a 5 star resort, idk if I mentioned that here. Shes been there about 2 months now id say.

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## Kamel

hey guys, quick update. Had to buy a truck to use for lien against a loan for our house's closing fee. So here she is. Black Horse the f-150. Itsa stick, so I gotta get on to learning that lol. Also pictured is Wendy the Windstar. Does anyone know a good website for truck accessories? ever since i was a kid ive wanted those smiley face lights that go on the top lol. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Lemme know if links are working

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...04268931_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...53624222_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...78609838_n.jpg

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## Rick

Black out your license plates. Anyone can trace you with the license number.

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## Kamel

meh, i aint worried about it lol

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## crashdive123

I'm confused.




> ...Had to buy a truck to use for lien against a loan for our house's closing fee...


If that's the case, why not just pay the closing fee instead of buying the truck?

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## Kamel

Because the house is in my gf.s name and the closing fee has to be a gift from a family member or as a secured loan from the bank. Her family is poor and dont even own vehicles or even drivers licenses. So the only way was for me to borrow the 500 bucks from a friends mom of mine and buy the truck, stick it in evas name and get the loan. The bank was just gunna give us the 1600 unsecured but the Loan company needs it to be secured against something. itsa hassle and the government stuff makes it really difficult

edit: also my friends mom said she would pay the closing, but the loan company wont accept cause shes not eva's family. bunch of bs really

edit 2: the van isnt in our name because we didnt know you could have a vehicle in your name with no license. so its in her cousins name she moved a few hours away a few weeks ago. and it cant be transferred because its been impounded for a DWI. minnesota has some messed up laws lol, so we couldnt use it as a lien, woulda made everything alot easier if we could

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