# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  Winter Survival - Any ideas?

## payne

Hello everyone!
I'm not sure if you remember me: I used to post about some adventures of mine, be it survival-related, or simple travel-related.
I just came back from a 2-years-long hitchhiking trip from Montreal to Alaska, down to Argentina, and back up to Ecuador. Absolutely wonderful.

Anyways, every winter that I am back home, in Montreal, I tend to invite a bunch of friends to come and practice some survival skills further up north in Quebec.
This will be the 5th season we do it. Some have showed up almost every year, which is nice.

I am looking forward to gathering some ideas from you.
Here are some of the activities we used to do:
- Build a primitive shelter to spend a night in (that is a requisite to showing to those events). We have done Lean-to's, A-frames, and quimzys, so far. We highly enjoy doing the quimzys, but it'd be nice to have a variant. I've been thinking about a raised-floor wooden shelter (the main thing is trying to keep off the ground during the night... and Fir Branches, from my experience, aren't exactly enough).
- Start a fire with certain extra restrictions added in (only with a magnesium bar, bow-drill, 5 matches, etc.)
- Winter fishing through a hole on the frozen lake
- Primitive snowshoe making
- Setting up traps in the woods

And non-survival related activities such as hockey on the lake, snowball fights, and what not.

Anyways... any shelter or fire related propositions? Or anything else?

Thank you!  :Smile:

----------


## crashdive123

Good to see you back Payne.  While it may take a little longer - at tepee or yurt might be a fun project for your group.

----------


## madmax

If your snow is right...an igloo?

----------


## kyratshooter

Ahh, your first two replies are from guys in Florida!

The ones of us up here in snow country are all huddles around the fire under some form of roof.

you might look into a Moors Kochenski type "super shelter", or even the plastic house done by some Russian guy a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGSC8iYhC7k

----------


## madmax

LOL.  Yeah yeah Kyrat.  Doncha know most everybody in FL is from up north.

...I've never built an igloo before though...

----------


## hunter63

Well, Good to see you made it....has been a while, always kind of  wondered how you were fairing.

Would interested to hear what you used for shelters in your travels?

The shelters you are planning...semi permanent? ...or just a night or two?.....tarps, tents....  natural materials available?...pine/fir/dead falls?

Tipis or Wikiup's  seem to me the best bet as done properly are able to have a central fire pit.....and can be natural materials...(takes a long time to gather covering material.

----------


## payne

I have had 3 different tents throughout my travels:

1) MEC Camper-2
2) MSR Hubba-Hubba
3) MARMOT (can't remember which one)

All of them are 2-persons tent, 3-seasons.
#1 would often have its poles or zippers break quickly, but was cheap.
#2 was absolutely amazing. Very compact and lightweight. 2 doors. Great pole-design and fastest set-up I've seen for a tent. After a year and a half enduring the Latin American harsh sun, though, it lost a bit of its waterproofness. Which is when someone ended up destroying, and that's where #3 comes in.
#3 was expensive for not such a good quality, but was somewhat the best choice available to me in Ecuador. Weirder design. Weird waterproof cover measurements that make it so that you actually need to use the strings and what not to keep the water from coming in (the MSR would be absolutely fine without any extra work to prevent water from getting inside).

The Hubba-Hubba is the absolute best tent I have ever stumbled upon. Highly recommended. Definitely worth the price if you plan on living inside it, as I did.

-------------

The shelters we'll build are meant for max 2 nights.
Material-wise, we're talking birch and fir majorly. And some other tree with a nice leaf that doesn't fall off easily in the winter, burns very well, and is somewhat waterproof so even though it's covered in ice, it will pick up in flames very nicely. I can't remember the name of that tree, though.

----------


## madmax

+1 on the Hubba Hubba.

----------


## hunter63

If you are not bringing a tarp, I think I would stay with a simple lean two...with off ground platform.
Moors Kochenski type "super shelter seems to be a lot of work and materials....as well as tarps.....more suited to long term stay.

----------


## Rick

Give each one an "injury" they must deal with such as broken fingers (can only use one hand), broken arm, injured back.  Those would be real life scenarios that anyone of us might have to deal with. Try starting a fire with only one hand if all you have are matches or knife and fero rod. Splint your own arm then perform some task. You get the idea.

----------


## Billofthenorth

How about a field expedient sauna? Any good survivalist needs to know how to deal with the grueling ordeal of 100+ degree steamy temperatures in mid-winter.

----------


## payne

I like the last two ideas. Thank you!  :Smile: 

I also added "Change mushroom hunting" as an activity since there is a decent amount of birch trees around.

----------


## NE Survival

If snow allows, a snow drift cave. I've never tried one but I'm sure it would work out.

----------


## Antonyraison

I dont know anything about snow survival, hahah it doesn't really snow here in Southern africa, and if it does its in very remote parts maybe a foot of it at most.
However I have some suggestions for other activities on your list;

* fire making with bow drill, using all natural materials ,even for the string, and not using a knife, just stone tools to make it - Seems very challenging.
*run a simulated search and rescue ; assign teams, and pick some one to have an injury, then you must search for him/her.. and assess situation, and treat wounds with what you have, i.e broken leg, possible spine damage,etc (whatever you want) maybe you would even need them too build a stretcher?
* split people in teams, get them to make signal fires, and see which team gets their signal fire going first, ie which was light 1st and was smoking enough to draw attention.

----------


## 1stimestar

Hey welcome back!  I often wondered what ever happened to you.

----------


## kappydell

> If your snow is right...an igloo?


How about a snow cave...easier.  Especially if some kind soul snow-blows some nice deep artificial drifts to play with!  I made one once in my front yard by blowing up some garbage bags with air to make air bladders, piling them up and snow blowing damp snow over the top about 1 foot thick.  Waited for it to freeze over a couple nights to firm up the 'drift' then dug thru and popped the air bladders & pulled them out.  Result? A snow cave!  (I didn't have any good drifts to spare for a natural snow cave.  The best one was in front of my door and I had to dig my way thru it to get out of the house...LOL...no seriously.  So I made a fake drift.

----------


## LowKey

I wonder what Payne has been up to these days. Hasn't been around for the past 9 months.

----------


## Graf

I winter camp in Michigan, I buy tents at garage sales cut the majority of the floor out and use a pit fire. I zip a short length of 2” pvc in the door for ventilation. 1 year I heated the ground up with fire and was able to make the frozen ground diggable and made a Dakota fire pit that worked great. I usally cover the outside of the tent with old army wool blankets for insulation. To keep off the ground I use army cots. For the fishing part I use tip ups so I can do other things while trying to catch fish.

----------


## kyratshooter

Paye is probably somewhere in Tahiti smoking mushrooms and soaking up the sun.

And I just about guarantee he got the trip over there being paid for working on a cruise ship and he is living on nothing while being hosted by the local natives.

You can do that when you are 19.

----------


## 1stimestar

Aw yes, he's probably "living the dream".

----------


## Antonyraison

His taking the hobbits to Isengard.

----------


## Arctic warrior

Hazen audel from primal survivor stayed with cree indians and made a shelter covered 1/2 snow and made a fire out front check iy out on yt  says it kept hi  warm until fire went down

----------


## Bobnatural

The most dangerous thing that you can encounter is hypothermia, so staying warm - is your top priority. On a sunny day, surviving in the woods can seem impossible. If you need proof, go no further than any of the great survival movies or adventure stories that don't take place in the snow. As a result, as the weather gets colder, getting out of a bad position becomes exponentially more difficult. A good thing to have in your car is SPAM.  SPAM will get you out of any bad position.  Well, any except coming back to this forum and posting a link to something I want you to buy.  I really thought I was being pretty slick by waiting a couple of days to edit my post.  I was wrong.

----------


## crashdive123

Some things are so predictable.

----------


## Rick

Bob, bob, bob, bob, bob. You couldn't survive in good weather what are we to expect in winter weather? You can't even qualify for troll of the week. Pathetic.

----------


## Michael aka Mac

I personally love the wintertime, it truly is picturesque, but it is also filled with countless dangers. 

I strongly suggest anyone wanting to try winter camping to first do it in their own backyard.  It is kind of like learning to drive a stick shift on a vehicle, you can read all about it, watch videos on it, but when it is time to try it out you are going to be grinding gears.

I have no idea what Bob's total post was about, nor why he was banned, and honestly I do not care, but when he mentioned the dangers of hypothermia, I have to say  that he nailed it.

Once you have already gotten to the point where you are hypothermic, your body is shaking, possibly convulsing, your hands and fingers are practically useless and unable to grip objects or ignite a Bic lighter, and your cognitive ability has diminished. Your very core temperature has decreased, and the combination of this all is will cause exhaustion.

I will list some of the most common mistakes with winter camping:

*Clothing*: 

First mistake that most people make it wearing cotton clothing in wintertime, or in any cooler season for that matter. Cotton absorbs moisture, meaning your sweat,  it takes a long time to dry out, and it loses its' warmth when wet.  It is best to having material that wicks moisture such as fleece, wool, and other synthetics.  

Your main priority is to not only stay warm, but also  to prevent yourself from overheating.  Many people start off their adventure hike wearing all their layering, and that is also a mistake. When you first get out of your vehicle to leave on your hike, your body temperature is already warm, and you are now doing physical exertion that results in you generating heat.  Wearing all of your insulation at this point will most likely result in your body overheating and causes you to sweat. 
( i strongly suggest buying layers that have ventilation zippers so that you can regulate your heat, and these layers should all be breathable and able to wick moisture away from your skin and other layers)

One of the most common mistakes in winter camping is not having an air mattress or sleeping pad with a R value rating 5+. This is the insulation rating of the pad, and it is the only thing that is separating the cold from the ground below. I have seen so many campers complain how cold their night was and how their sleeping bag temperature rating is inaccurate but in reality the culprit was their sleeping pad not being at the proper R value rating.

Another mistake people make is not reading the fine print on their sleeping bag.  There are temperature measurements that are listed, and so many people confuse max temperature that the bag was tested at versus the comfort temperature of the bag.  So although a sleeping bag may say it is a 0 degree F sleeping bag,  the bag's comfort level may be at 10-15 degrees F.   Some sleeping bags temperature rating is also based under the assumption that you are wearing mid to heavyweight base layers, socks, and a hat, and all winter sleeping bags are assuming your mattress pad has at least a R value of 5. So sleeping in a 0 degree F sleeping bag, while not wearing any base layers, and while on a summer rated mattress pad when it is 20 degrees F. you are going to freeze your @#$ off...

Before you go out on your winter camping adventure, and after you tested your setup overnight in your backyard, google "How to treat hypothermia"  , " How to prevent frostbite"

*Some helpful suggestions*   When you are having mild hypothermia, your hands are going to be cold.  It is going to be hard to grip items, to strike your ferro rod, or to light your Bic lighter.  The loss of dexterity in your hands and fingers are the reason for this.  Buying one-hand operated Ferro rods, push button lighters (vs that rotating steel style lighters), and electric handwarmers that have an easy on/off switch to press, vs those disposable handwarmers that you will not be able to rip the plastic packaging.

I also suggest buying a couple Mylar Solar Blankets and a Dollar Store translucent shower curtain, as these items combined with a fire can create a shelter that will reflect the heat that is absorbed through the shower curtain and trap it within your jury rigged shelter.  the fire is outside and emits heat that passes through shower curtain then gets reflected from the Mylar blanket that is on the floor ,the  backwall, and the ceiling, and now this heat is building up within the shelter as it is constantly being reflected back towards you.  I have seen setups like this where the outdoor temperature is below freezing but inside this man made shelter, the temperatures are above 75 degrees.

----------

