# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Hunting & Trapping >  Stalking Deer

## Kortoso

I enjoy this aspect of the hunt. To be honest, I have only taken one deer. The killing and field-dressing doesn't interest me as much as the aspects of hunting lead up to "making meat": reconoitering the deer's territory, tracking the deer, reading signs, moving tactically, creeping up on the beast. I get a kick out of it.

For me, the stalking alone is fine. I can do it any season, without a permit, and pretty anyplace where I find deer. 

My question is what to wear, especially colors. Much ink has been spilled about what colors the deer sees, but many times my presence has been given away by @#%$ing birds. Do they see in a different spectrum, and do I have to dress for them as well??

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## TresMon

You hit the nail on the head and entered in the inner circle where most woodsmen don't go, and NO magazine article goes.

I don't care what color or spectrum a deer see's in, I don't care what colors a 'yote see's etc. etc. Bird's see in full color and they are the alarm system of the woods. All the other critters listen to the alarm cry of the birds. Dress for and stalk the birds, regardless of your game.

John Young has a great audio series on this subject.

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## Rick

Birds have us beat hands down. Not only do they have more photo receptors in their eye they have more connections between the eye and brain. I'll give you a good example of the difference. The brown spot on a Sparrow is actually an ultra violet reflector. Birds see it as a beacon of light. All we see is a brown spot. Not only can they see in ultra violet but they see well in polarized light and better than us at night. And most of the birds that will give you up are prey birds so they have eyes on the side of their heads giving them a nice 360° field of vision. Since I can't see in ultraviolet I have no idea what I might look like in that spectrum. I may be a huge ball of light walking through the woods from a bird point of view or I might be bigfoot. I'm a little fuzzy looking.

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## your_comforting_company

half a pint of jack daniels will make everything else look fuzzy to you too!

I mostly dress in black whether still hunting, or stalking. I don't use any of that fancy UV killer wash on my clothing, or anything else. Stealth is your primary tool when on the hunt. Sometimes I just walk into an area, read the signs, and take a knee for a couple hours. If you're in the right place, the deer will reveal themselves once you become part of the scenery. In days long ago, Natives would dress in an entire deerskin tanned with the hair on, and the head mounted on top. Moving very slowly through the woods, mimicking the deers behaviors. This used natural colors of deer, and natural seeming movements to further _enhance_ their stealth.

With the two deer I harvested this year, _even with the smoke and noise_ from my black powder rifle, I never spooked any of the groups. Both deer were taken from the same hunting spot. Both were of good size and were taken not 20 yards apart on different days. I never compromised my location.
Stealth is a hunter's friend.

And speaking of the birds, last year (or was it the year before) one of the "birds of prey" flew into my area, landed in a tree as I was watching, and cocked it's head to the side, looking at something. A minute later a doe walked out. They will not only compromise _your_ location, but can also give away the location of your own quarry. You have to pay attention to ALL your surroundings and the wildlife in it.

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## hunter63

I guess I will agree to a point, that stealth has its place.

But I don't think deer speak bird....a lot of the time deer are oblivious to alot of things as long as they used to it.

A lot of people seem to think you need to be camo head to toe, and, yeah it helps, but we dress in blaze orange with 100's of thousands of deer killed every year.

There is no big secret, it's is simply to know the woods, food sources, rut timing, trails, moon phases, (full moon/no moon), night feeding, weather, and all other aspics, as well a scent, sight and a sitting still.
Then there is DAL,..... being in the right place at the right time........Number of hours logged in the woods is in direct proportion to success rate.

Now turkeys are a different story, good thing they can't smell you, you would never get even close.

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## Kortoso

hunter63: You bring up moon phases, I figure during the full moon they're less likely to be out during the day. Is that what you're geting at?

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## hunter63

> hunter63: You bring up moon phases, I figure during the full moon they're less likely to be out during the day. Is that what you're geting at?


Yeah, but weather enters into it as well....feeding at night when the moon is full, holing up during the day.

From what you are saying in the OP, spending time watching their movements will kinda confirm this....of course if anyone really "knew" what was going on all the time, it would be deer shooting, not hunting.

I spent more time watching, listening, and sneaking around this year than shooting......still fun.

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## your_comforting_company

Most definately agree with H. DAL has more to do with it than anything else. After years of tracking, countless hours of sitting, we finally found a really good, active traffic spot. success rate? maybe 2%, BUT you have to consider that we don't kill everything that moves either...

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## intothenew

> .............Since I can't see in ultraviolet I have no idea what I might look like in that spectrum.................



A black light will give you some indication.

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## hunter63

The catologs and magizines are filled with all the latest non-glare, no scent, masking scents, low UV, super invisible camo, all to take your money.

But it's a proven fact that the biggest buck/racks are mostly all killed in saloons....if you sit there a while a listen to everyone......LOL
Dibs on the first 14 pointer that come thru......

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## Kortoso

> A black light will give you some indication.


With all due respect, that's a different phenomenon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescence
 :Smile:

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## kyratshooter

As of right now KY reported 117,000+- deer harvested this year.  That is about average.

Most of them are taken by people with average IQ, no UV or infared capabilities and not all of them had their own teeth.  Some of them had not washed properly in a while and some were wearing aftershave and smoking cigars as they sat on their stands.

You guys are trying the spiritualize, mystify and analyze your way past what 1.5 million people do with their cars each year.

The trick to deer hunting, as it has been since the first neanderthal clubed one down, is to be in the right place when a deer walks by.

In some areas that means sitting on your front or back porch or carrying a gun when you go to the mailbox.  Deer are at nusciense levels in many spots.   Killing them is not rocket science.

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## NightShade

Scent free clothing- uv washed... Blah h blah blah.
Scams to create cash.
Commercialized hunting tactics.

Know the woods.
That means, food and water sources as well as bed areas.
Know the wind direction.
Move slow and quiet.

Sure you can spend a ton of cash on the fancy hunting gear. For the most part, waste of money IMHO.

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## jake abraham

I agree with Nightshade

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## intothenew

> With all due respect, that's a different phenomenon.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescence



And to quote: "Firstest"

The overwhelming majority of deer harvest is a result of agricultural activity. They have at worst been turned into cattle, grazing on corn or alfalfa. Even worse, the Tiger Lillies or Day Lillies in our lawn gardens. They can be likened to the difference in a domesticated dog and a wolf. They know your habits much better than you know their's. Break the habit on one of these quasi-domestics, and you bag. Show up in the transition between agriculture and wilderness at just the right time, and yes luck is a wonderful thing.

But, to hunt a deer in true wilderness with no agricultural influence, is a different can of worms. Scents of smoke and/or pork fat, visual of a neon sign and/or the front facing eyes of a predator will send them into flight. They browse in a fantastic world, ever changing but predictable. As has been mentioned, intimate knowledge of the surroundings is key.


And to quote again: "Secondest"

The black light is only an indication of what you are portraying with UV brighteners, indicative of the true value. You cannot see the true spectrum, with or without a black light. Have a read here, fluorescence is the by product, that we can comprehend, of what many game animals experience.


And of my own hand: Thirdest

I did not post to proliferate the use of any snake oil on the market. My thinking is start with something that has not had the UV brighteners added, and not add any more, just as my forefathers. I prefer not to hunt in what amounts to neon, but my wife insists that I wear it to social functions.

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## Kortoso

Not going to argue the UV point; for the record I quoted Wikipedia as well.

I'm interested in getting familar with surviving the wilderness; leaning out the back door of my shack and shooting a door just doesn't do it for me.  :Smile:  If I want meat I can just visit the butcher shop. 

But that's just my take; everyone here seems to come from a different perspective.

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## intothenew

> .............leaning out the back door of my shack and shooting a door..............


Not a door, I'm a better shot than that, most times.

But a camp kill, for many reasons, is a ritual. Heart and liver first night. Contrary to the thoughts of the OP, the anatomy lesson, that is especially true when you have young and/or inexperienced in camp. The many uses for this harvest need not be overlooked, it is not just meat.

And for the intelligence, I have four stomachs to investigate and possibly scent to use.

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## Rick

Duesn't the wearing of animal skin (200+ years ago) mimic all things an animal would expect to see? UV reflection and all? Just thinking out loud.

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## intothenew

That's just a bit too inviting for trouble from the n00b carrying a 30-30 and wearing pop bottle glasses. You can do do it safely, showing hunter orange, with modern textiles, and be stealthy to game. Shades and hues the same as your environment, non-UV orange as the spackled sun light. Get rid of that predator silhouette.

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## Rick

I meant natives. 1 finger type sucks.

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## intothenew

We're hunting natives now? I'll set up a stand with Ol' Milwaukee's Best Lite as bait, fish in a barrel.

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## Rick

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## your_comforting_company

That was kinda my point Rick. Although I'm sure the natives knew nothing of UV spectrums, it only seems natural that if you want to "blend in" then you take the form of your prey. I have to agree that in this day and age, it would be foolish to dress "like a deer", you're only asking for a bullet.
Another point I'd like to make, is that 300+ years ago, all this debate is something a 10 year old could tell you all about. Stalking hunt was a knowledge passed down through generations, much like an 8 year old would have known all the major edible plants AND how to use them, yet most folks 60+ nowadays couldn't tell you what poke sallet is.

Last year our rut didn't come in until season was out. This year it was between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Like H says, there are so many factors that play into successful hunting, that you can't finger just one. My last deer was on a new moon morning, while a cold front was moving through, surrounded by duck hunters on the water, with hunters on private land to the north pressuring the deer to move, and they moved my way. I was wearing all black, except my "lucky hat" (kidding about "lucky") and the wind was from the Northwest with water to my southeast. At the time I shot, there were probably 15 deer around me. 20 yards from a heavy trail with pawings and rubs all around.
I would say these were ideal conditions and it bagged me a big one.
We've been hunting this 15.8k acres for several years and it still took weeks of scouting, stalking, reading signs and preparing, to get there. The freezer is full so I guess it paid off, but how much of it was my prepping vs. Dumb Luck?
I was in the right place at the right time. We had actually talked about going back over to my little paradise spot that morning, but decided to "check out" this other spot. As KYRS says, there is nothing "mysterious" about hunting. Animals are quite predictable actually. Fresh water, lots of food, and dense brush for them to think they are hiding in. There's a reason we call them "deer trails"...

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## Kortoso

If you had a deer carcass on your head, would a deer mistake that for a live deer, or smell it and realize that it was dead?

My area has had a dry winter so far. Slim pickings until the rain starts. And, yeah, daytime sightings are pretty rare, since we have cloudless full moon nights for cavorting. I'm not seeing many signs of rut; it's possible they go somewhere else during this season.

Did find some lion scat, and that critter probably has a serious effect on where and when the deer do their thing.

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## Mischief

> duesn't the wearing of animal skin (200+ years ago) mimic all things an animal would expect to see? Uv reflection and all? Just thinking out loud.


"bingo" !!!

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## KnifeNutty

Whether I am walking in the bushes or hunting I keep in mind that all animals are on the watch for predators.
A hunter is a predator and in that mode is detected as one because of the adrenaline sent out from the body.
My mindset is not of killing , it's of going on a walk and happen to have a firearm.
I have had more success treating it that way then when in hunt mode.
I've sat and ate my lunch while a family of deer ate seedlings just 5 yards away and several times sat as moose came right by me to go graze in a filed I was watching.
No fast moves just relaxing enjoying the surroundings were enough to seem a non threat to the prey.
The birds sounds if any are of just letting me know they see me...but it seems to be normal bird sounds...

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## Cast-Iron

I have hunted the Texas white-tail since the early '70s.  Hunting from a blind or stand doesn't compare to the stalking of the animal.  I can take a portable radio to the blind.  Catch a ball game, take a nap, set an alarm to go off 20 minutes before the game feeder and likely harvest a deer if I choose to.  This isn't hunting, it's harvesting.  We are overrun with deer here in central Texas.  Not a lot of size to them, but a lot of critters. Population control is an important part of our management philosophy.

My approach to stalking is entirely different.  It simply boils down to finding them before they are made aware of your presence.  Making yourself harder to see thru slow deliberate movement, the use of camo or dark earthtones to draw less attention to yourself, noise and scent disciplne. understanding the habits of whatever you're stalking during that time of year and day, familiarity with your location location location, and plain trial and error.  You will be outed by some critter.  It happens to all of us.  Try to understand what gave you away and learn from the experience.  With enough time and obervation, you should start to understand the natural flow of things around you and when that flow is interrupted, it is always for a reason.  
Watch animals at a food plot or a watering hole.  See how they respond when other animals approach.  Learn to use their highly developed senses to heighten your awareness of what may be just over a ridge or behind the brush.  I continue to see things I've never seen before and gain greater understanding about my little corner of mother earth (even after 40+ years of "schooling").  While I always value the harvest, I value the experience even more.

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## postman

Stalking and still hunting are the only ways that I will hunt, I only wear clothing that is silent in the woods. The pattern makes little difference, the key is quiet. Wool and fleece are the best. Staying down wind and keeping movement to a minimum are the keys to sucessful ground hunting for deer.

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## Rick

> A hunter is a predator and in that mode is detected as one because of the adrenaline sent out from the body.


I would suggest it has little to do with some perceived "hunter mode" scent and a whole lot more to do with how you are moving and what you are doing. If an animal spots you stalking them, even if you are down wind, they know by your movement that you represent danger. Yet, if you are sitting, as you described and make no sudden movements the animal is less likely to see you as a threat whether he can scent you or not. 

The very same is true if you see someone stalking you. We make those same judgement calls about each other on a daily basis.

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## kyratshooter

> I have hunted the Texas white-tail since the early '70s.  Hunting from a blind or stand doesn't compare to the stalking of the animal.  I can take a portable radio to the blind.  Catch a ball game, take a nap, set an alarm to go off 20 minutes before the game feeder and likely harvest a deer if I choose to.  This isn't hunting, it's harvesting.  We are overrun with deer here in central Texas.  Not a lot of size to them, but a lot of critters. Population control is an important part of our management philosophy.



If all it takes is sitting on a stump, waking up when the alarm goes off and waiting for the deer to commit suecide while you nap why is the Texas success rate only 67%.

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## Wildthang

I stalk my deer with a bullet :Smartass:

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## Cast-Iron

> If all it takes is sitting on a stump, waking up when the alarm goes off and waiting for the deer to commit suecide while you nap why is the Texas success rate only 67%.


A few counter points: 1) I never said anything about stumps; 2) "suecide" is spelled suicide; 3) my success rate has never been 67%.  I am fortunate enough to live in the epicenter of Texas whitetail hunting.  Our deer numbers here are extraordinary, some claim we have the densest deer populations in the nation averaging one deer for every 2 to 3 acres.  We have in excess of 1000 acres, so you do the math.  A large field dressed carcass here may only weigh 120 pounds, but many won't break 100. You just harvest another animal or two if needed (season limit is 5 with no more than 2 antlered).  I've always said I do my best napping in the blind (I've never used an alarm clock though......that was purely artistic embellishment).

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## Rick

We don't have splling police here. If we did tht would be......oh, me. How 'bout that. Now we're in trouble.

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## hunter63

Most of my deer hunting, here in Wisconsin, is now from a Louisiana Box stand, modeled after the DD and SIL's...used at their lease.

Here......
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Or here....
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Just kidding.

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## Cast-Iron

@Hunter63.......I am relatively new here.  Even so, I truly look forward to your posts (among a few others) for their honesty and straightforward prose.  But I do have to question the authenticity of your Louisiana Box Stand...............................where's the satellite dish?  

Awesome view from the deck!

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## hunter63

Not yet on the dish, that's on the end of the porch.

I have addressed the radio problem from my tower.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...lkabout-Radios.

My "long hunter' walks are limited these days....the need to harvest a deer, not so strong now,...... It is up to the ones that really want to end it all....and come to me.

View from the river.
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Inspiration for my tower.... east of Mansfield, La on SIL's and DD lease.
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## Rick

He doesn't need a dish. His blind has cable.

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## hunter63

Well, at least a modem.....LOL

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## crashdive123

Or at least a magazine rack.  If you're going to spend that much time sitting on the throne, you've got to have reading material.

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## Rick

Just don't try to visit if you hear a voice yell, "Bombs Away!!!" Just sayin'.....

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## edr730

Sleeping isn't so bad if you're in an encloser where you can see a great distance and you are gun hunting. Not so good if you are a traditional archer who hunts in the swamp where deer can surprise you and you need to be close. I'll agree that being in the right place is important. If you are in a new area the easiest way is to drive the two tracks until you see the area with the most deer crossing the road then find the best trail, the best place to sit considering the wind and cover and set up another blind in case the prevailing wind changes. I've never seen the benifit of chamophlage. Smell, moving at the time when the deer have their head down and not moving when they lift their head, and being silent by using soft clothing, and having the advantage of them not smelling you are important. Stalking of course is different from 100 yards than it is from 30.

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## Batch

Depends on where you are and what kind of pressure you have on the deer. Short video of my brother and I just out of camp. This is a 100 feet from my tent.




I am wearing an orange shirt and you can see what my brother is wearing.

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## Batch

This is us 6 years ago in the same WMA a little ways down the road.




I have hours of video of deer taken from the truck and woods in this area. But, when it comes time to drop them. They know and they are gone. LOL

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## Rick

When we were in Danali we saw a huge elk laying in a dry creek bed. Downsteam about 50 yards was a grizzly eating berries along side the bank. The elk wasn't at all concerned. It moved once as the grizzly closed to about 30 yards and put about 50 yards between them and laid back down. Once the bear closed the second time the elk got up and walked off. This was early August so there was plenty of food everywhere. I was pretty surprised how the two reacted but the bear was content with the berries and neither seemed too concerned about the other.

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## Wildthang

> I have hunted the Texas white-tail since the early '70s.  Hunting from a blind or stand doesn't compare to the stalking of the animal.  I can take a portable radio to the blind.  Catch a ball game, take a nap, set an alarm to go off 20 minutes before the game feeder and likely harvest a deer if I choose to.  This isn't hunting, it's harvesting.  We are overrun with deer here in central Texas.  Not a lot of size to them, but a lot of critters. Population control is an important part of our management philosophy.
> 
> 
> My approach to stalking is entirely different.  It simply boils down to finding them before they are made aware of your presence.  Making yourself harder to see thru slow deliberate movement, the use of camo or dark earthtones to draw less attention to yourself, noise and scent disciplne. understanding the habits of whatever you're stalking during that time of year and day, familiarity with your location location location, and plain trial and error.  You will be outed by some critter.  It happens to all of us.  Try to understand what gave you away and learn from the experience.  With enough time and obervation, you should start to understand the natural flow of things around you and when that flow is interrupted, it is always for a reason.  
> Watch animals at a food plot or a watering hole.  See how they respond when other animals approach.  Learn to use their highly developed senses to heighten your awareness of what may be just over a ridge or behind the brush.  I continue to see things I've never seen before and gain greater understanding about my little corner of mother earth (even after 40+ years of "schooling").  While I always value the harvest, I value the experience even more.



Cast Iron, I hunted in Laneau  ( spelling? ) county around 12 years ago, and the first deer I saw early one morning just before sunrise was so small I thought it was a dog! When I looked at it through my scope, of course I could tell it was a deer.
I only saw one buck with a half decent rack and he was too far away to shoot! So I shot a couple of does that weighed around 80 pounds fully dressed and called it good! At least I had meat in the freezer!
We stopped into a barbeque place around there that had a bunch of outdoor charcoal cookers, and they had almost anykind of meat you wanted to eat! Ever been there?

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## Cast-Iron

I believe you are referring to Llano.  While its less than an hour away from me, I don't often have any reason to make the trip over.  There are a few popular bbq places there and its been many moons since I've dined at any of them.  Cooper's, the one I think you are referring to, would make most any Texan's top 100 list for bbq.  Hopefully you had a good experience there.  There are few around Austin that many consider the Mecca of Texas BBQ.  In no particular order:  The Saltlick in Driftwood, Franklins in Austin, and Rudy's also in Austin.  About 30 minutes southeast of Austin is the small town of Lockhart with three well known places; Kreuz's Market, Smitty's and Blacks.  

Now I'm hungry for brisket.  Note to self....never chat on an empty stomach.

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## Cast-Iron

> When we were in Danali we saw a huge elk laying in a dry creek bed. Downsteam about 50 yards was a grizzly eating berries along side the bank. The elk wasn't at all concerned. It moved once as the grizzly closed to about 30 yards and put about 50 yards between them and laid back down. Once the bear closed the second time the elk got up and walked off. This was early August so there was plenty of food everywhere. I was pretty surprised how the two reacted but the bear was content with the berries and neither seemed too concerned about the other.



Rick, are you talking about Denali National Park?  I didn't realize Alaska had any elk in the interior.  I was only aware of an introduced herd on one or two islands in Southeast Alaska (Afognak (sp?) Island) and those were brought in from Washington state a few decades back.  However, Moose coming out of the wazoo.  They even have the current Moose killed count posted on the Palmer-Wasilla Highway to remind motorists of the hazards of "Meese" along the roadway

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## Rick

Yeah, it was Denali National. I thought I had a picture of the two of them but can't find it. Elk, Reindeer, Speckled Trout, it all looks the same to me but I remember it being an Elk. I'll keep looking for the picture. Definitely wasn't a moose. I've seen enough Rocky cartoons to know what Bullwinkle looks like. I did find a great picture of a moose butt I took. He/She was standing in a bunch of willow and all you could see was the rump.

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## Thaddius Bickerton

Around here if I "need" to get a deer I just hop on the tractor and drive down to the field near the swamp.

The deer ignore me and I can shoot em right off the tractor.  Not sport, just about as much fun as killing a farm animal.

If I want to stalk them then to do it right I wear stuff that will hide me from everything and use wind and such to advantage.

My daughter isn't to big on killing animals either, so I made her a stock out of a hunk of wood and mounted one of those scopes with a camera in it.  Now she "hunts" with that and her trophy is a picture with a cross hair on the deer.  Best of all worlds for her.

She knows that there will almost always be venison jerky and meat in the freezer from 3 brothers, uncles, cousins, and if needs be me or her.  (She can and has hunted, just not her favorite thing.  OTOH, she is the best at helping me keep the homestead critters cared for.)  She isn't much on killing a chicken either, but will help pluck it if I kill it.  Getting where I skin em but that's just me.  Rip dunks and plucks em.

Thad.

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## Cast-Iron

> Yeah, it was Denali National. I thought I had a picture of the two of them but can't find it. Elk, Reindeer, Speckled Trout, it all looks the same to me but I remember it being an Elk. I'll keep looking for the picture. Definitely wasn't a moose. I've seen enough Rocky cartoons to know what Bullwinkle looks like. I did find a great picture of a moose butt I took. He/She was standing in a bunch of willow and all you could see was the rump.


Elk, Reindeer(Caribou). Speckled Trout.........(hint: the trout is likely the wet one without fur and antlers).  If you do come across the pic, please post it, I'd like to see it.

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## Stairman

Im pretty good at stalking deer. Sorry I havent read all the other posts. Camo is unimportant to a colorblind deer, but a blotchy pattern helps and your face and hands covered or painted with a pattern of stipes or dots help trmendously. Feeling each step before putting all your weight down, so you dont break a stick etc. Hands down the most important thing is a thread tied on the end of your gun , bow or walking stick. A cheap and effective wind checker. Best not to proceed in the direction the string points .

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## Rick

Oh, snap. It had to be a Caribou. All I can plead is old age. We did what they call a grand slam while in Denali. We were pretty lucky. Dall Sheep, Caribou, Moose and Grizzly. We even got to see the mountain peak for a couple of hours. Pretty cool stuff.

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## Cast-Iron

MT. McKINLEY #4 - SEPT 2008.jpg  Here's a pic I took from a job site near Talkeetna.  Those Caribou do resemble Elk from this distance.........

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## Rick

That's pretty funny.

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