# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  any one here experienced with hydroponics/auqaponics?

## Kildar

Was wondering if any one here is experienced with the growing hydroponics and auqaponics systems for growing food Since i live in an apartment in the city on the 2nd floor with poor access to sunlight growing indoors is my only real option and i know these systems can produce more in smaller space then growing in dirt as well as use less over all water to maintain.  Have seen a lot of articles and youtube videos though they have not really provided a lot of info on getting the materials and setting it up.  Was wondering if any one had some links with good info or works with the systems themselves.

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## Rick

I doubt you'll have enough room in an apt. for a setup. If you have poor sunlight then nothing is going to grow anyway. Look into a grow lamp. I have one similar to this that I use to start my plants in the late winter. Just remember it takes about 18 hours of artificial sunlight for indoor plants. 

https://www.houzz.com/photos/5411602...mporary-plants

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## Antonyraison

depends on what you want to grow,
but I agree with rick the most important thing is the lights
you could go led..but i see a lot of  HPS (high pressure sodium) like maybe a 400watt
ummm a good system, and easy to build is a deep water system
you can use air stones from fishtanks,
and a large Black tub and some net pots and these aqua stones for the "soil"
you also would like a PH Tester, and Hydroponic nutrients to put in the system
And then I would suggest timmers on the lights.

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## kyratshooter

I have never liked the taste or texture of aquaphonic veggies.  

I think that if I were in an apartment I would go with hanging baskets on the balcony or in a window.  

I was on a ground floor townhouse about 30 years ago and grew a nice container garden.

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## Kildar

> I doubt you'll have enough room in an apt. for a setup. If you have poor sunlight then nothing is going to grow anyway. Look into a grow lamp. I have one similar to this that I use to start my plants in the late winter. Just remember it takes about 18 hours of artificial sunlight for indoor plants. 
> 
> https://www.houzz.com/photos/5411602...mporary-plants


I know about the grow lamp just looking for DIY howto's for the system most i have seen they just show you the finished product as if i could just copy it from seeing it lol.  as for room there is enough room i got 500 square feet and i am not one of those people who collects useless crap i live very spartan like the US marines have more clutter in their bunks kind of spartan.  so space is not an issue though i tend to like to maximize space when i do use it. 





> depends on what you want to grow,
> but I agree with rick the most important thing is the lights
> you could go led..but i see a lot of  HPS (high pressure sodium) like maybe a 400watt
> ummm a good system, and easy to build is a deep water system
> you can use air stones from fishtanks,
> and a large Black tub and some net pots and these aqua stones for the "soil"
> you also would like a PH Tester, and Hydroponic nutrients to put in the system
> And then I would suggest timmers on the lights.


well hydroponic nutrients are only if no fish or if a 2nd system with no fish the fish provide the nutrients in auqaponics.  guess ill just have to keep looking for a more detailed tutorial on building a system i cant afford the commerical systems as they start around the 1000 dollar range lol.






> I have never liked the taste or texture of aquaphonic veggies.  
> 
> I think that if I were in an apartment I would go with hanging baskets on the balcony or in a window.  
> 
> I was on a ground floor townhouse about 30 years ago and grew a nice container garden.


no balcony it is one of those 2nd floor middle of the building deals the window on the back side has a view of a concrete wall of another building and the window faces east while the front door/windows face west/mountains i get at best 1-2 hours sun through the back window and maybe 4-5 through the front window if i open it up and let every one see my gunsmithing work space and computer desk tempting them to rob me lol.  hence why i plan to do full indoors with grow lights.

I honestly didnt notice a different between aquaponic fruit/veggies then normally grown the hydroponic (no fish set up) had a odd taste from the hydroponic nutrients you have to add.  guess ill just keep doing research  :Frown:

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## hunter63

I guess the idea of looking for a site specific to aquaponic gardening is your best bet.
Many here have fooled around with various systems....and didn't really have the results that were promised.

Maybe look under growing marijuana under lights....those boys seem to have a handle on it.

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## Kildar

> I guess the idea of looking for a site specific to aquaponic gardening is your best bet.
> Many here have fooled around with various systems....and didn't really have the results that were promised.
> 
> *Maybe look under growing marijuana under lights*....those boys seem to have a handle on it.


lol tis actually legal here although i would have to sacrifice my 2nd amendment rights.  Even though it is more legal they prolly still will keep those secrets close mostly to avoid competition.  the only full tutorial i found for a complete system was using one of those 5 gallon water jugs for the water coolers you see in offices.  cutting the top off painting it black then bottom filled with water and mounting the top part on some dowels with the grow medium and plants and run a pump and oxygenator cost is around 15-20 USD but it is limited to like 2-3 smaller fish or 1 medium fish and a few plants.  oh well its a growing industry just gotta look for more DIY tutorials.

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## Antonyraison

There many examples of DIY easy to build deep water systems and many other systems all over youtube.

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## Fixit

Here's something that might help .


http://www.tngun.com/new-aquaponics-setup/

His system  is based on aquariums making easy to adjust your scale as you learn .

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## Kildar

> There many examples of DIY easy to build deep water systems and many other systems all over youtube.


I know i seen a great many of them but most of them just explain the system they dont actually show how it was put together or tell you what was used making it hard to copy.  It is kind of like having a martial arts instructor who just beats the crap out of every student then says okay now you all do it.  I keep looking for more detailed videos but there are just so many to wade through it just takes time i may end up just having to buy some used aquariums cheap and cobble together my own system from PVC and cheap pumps.

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## LowKey

Hope your downstairs neighbors have flood insurance....

http://www.diynetwork.com/how-to/out...roponic-system

https://www.worthingtondirect.com/st...FQtXDQodIicAkg

https://hydrobuilder.com/hydroponics...w-systems.html

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/c...oponic-systems

There are all kinds of resources out there. The thing about these systems is, they aren't just set em up and forget em. They do take a fair amount of upkeep work, a good amount of science know-how, and a pretty good outlay of money. 

The thing about LED and Sodium Vapor - the big difference is the heat (welll that and the lamp lifecycle.) But also the light spectrum. If you go LED, be sure you get the right color temperature. Personally, I'd go with a full RGBA set-up with a variable dimmer control so I could set the blue/red balance. But that's just me. With LEDs you might not only save on power consumed by the lamps, you might save on electricity not being used to run your AC all year long. Here's a short read on using LEDs to grow plants. 
http://www.gpnmag.com/article/led-li...ers-and-world/

Don't forget to read up on plant nutrition. pH and nutrient control is a big time suck. Nothing worse than trays full of slimy rotting roots and dead plants. Smells bad too.

Plenty of real live books out there on the topic (though I gotta note, don't be fooled by a self-publisher. Amazon is loaded with a lot of junk books these days. Two of these I clicked are worthless.)
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...me+hydroponics

Another option, since growing pot is legal, find a hydroponics store and ask questions. You are going to have to find a source for the salts, testing kits, etc anyway. It was wicked funny here in MA when pot went legal, all the grow lights and simple kits tripled in price within a week. Couldn't find a grow lamp tube anywhere for a month. LOL.

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## WalkingTree

Lights: As I understand it, turns out plants only use a small portion of the spectrum that the sun puts out. The red and blue, generally speaking. So you can use even less power - various people have been using reddish and bluish LED's (very little electricity), doing it vertically, and with hydroponics or a system which even mists the roots instead of them being submerged. And you can have a tiny vermiculture setup, using worms, and add their stuff to your water or mist. (all this already mentioned in posts above though)

I don't know if I'd like veggies not grown in dirt or under the sun/some degree of open-air though. Always had an intuition telling me that they 'just wouldn't taste right'.

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## LowKey

Blue and red spectra drive photosynthesis, but there are other plant growth processes that require middle spectrum light. The xanthophylls and carotenes for instance, which assist the photosynthetic process in certain plants, moves more toward the middle of the light spectrum. With RGBA LEDs, you can balance the whole spectrum any way you want, which is why there is a bit of science involved here. Or you just make sure you get a good full spectrum LED "grow lamp" which will include part of the middle spectrum as "white" light and forget the science.

Don't forget the light timer. Some plants will do ok under 24 hour lights, but many require a certain day-length (light-dark cycle) to trigger flower set and fruit production. Besides, it doesn't hurt the plant to do dark time, and you save on power.

Not only light is needed, but also CO2 and the right temperature. There is always an optimum temperature, CO2 level and light intensity for peak performance. More isn't always better. You can find research online for a lot of indoor crops. Most vegetable plants that produce fruit like to be in the 70-80° range for temperature as most are tropical to begin with. The coles and leaf crops like kales and lettuce prefer slightly cooler temps and probably won't like being in the same room as tomatoes and peppers for instance. Drafts are bad for all plants. Heating ducts and air conditioners shouldn't blow directly onto your set up.

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## WalkingTree

(btw, DO some plants REQUIRE some dark periods??)

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## Antonyraison

For the lights yes plants require a full spectrum of light.. but at various stages.. usually devided into a warm spectrum and a cold spectrum. You can vegetated the plants to whatever size you desire with mostly cold spectrum and then flower the plants with both spectrums or just a warm spectrum.
 But the best results is using both all the time.. what puts a plant from vegatation stage to a flowering stage is the amount of light... for a lot of plants it's often 10-12 hours light in veg. And 16-18 hours when you want to flower them

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## Antonyraison

Basically you want to mimic the sun and seasons. From like from like long days with warmer sun and shorter days with a colder sun

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## LowKey

Try growing a short day onion without darkness.
Or getting a poinsetta to turn red without the proper light/night ratio.

A good number of plants set seed by seasonal day length. If not most of them.

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## WalkingTree

A related question, btw, just wondering what y'all would say...

I keep running into contradictory experiences of people on certain points. Like watering a produce garden.

Now, I know that it wouldn't be exact and depends on other factors, but just generally speaking...I figured that an outdoor produce garden would like it best to be watered in the morning just before sunrise, and it's generally not good to water at night and have them be wet all night before the sun comes up. I also understand it to be best to water deeply and not too frequently. But was just talking to someone who said they water only every evening, and their garden does awesome, while a neighbor of theirs done everything else exactly the same and started with exactly the same stuff at the same time...but their's doesn't do well at all while they water in the early morning.

So...what's up here? What kind of opinions do y'all have here?

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## Antonyraison

we often have water restrictions as we had a drought for years so, we could only water early morning and evening, with a bucket and not a hose...
I honestly dont know about out door, my garden out side I literally leave it, and the plants are fine, but it was a well designed low maintenance garden. lol

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## Rick

Watering in the morning allows the plants to dry so disease does not flourish on wet plants overnight. That said, if they need water, water them. Plants need about one inch of water per week...on average. Some plants require more so you need to understand the requirements of the plants you are growing. The soil conditions will also dictate water requirements as well. Surrounding plants will rob your garden of water. This is not a one size fits all.

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## LowKey

The rain doesn't care if it is day or night. Plants don't care if it rains day or night. Most plants don't so much like being top watered with cold water on a sweltering hot sunny day. Use a watering can and water at the base if a plant goes into heat prostration. I've had plants recover from some pretty serious wilting, so don't yank something as dead until you give it at least a day or two to recover.

Crop rotation goes a long way toward preventing diseases in the soil that may splash up when hose watering. Other mitigation varies from mulching, to installing drip lines, to simply trimming up the lower leaves of the plant so they aren't near the ground. My tomatoes get trimmed up as they grow so the whole bottom 1' of stem has no leaves. You don't pick produce when it is wet either to avoid the transfer of rot causing organisms.

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## hunter63

> The rain doesn't care if it is day or night. Plants don't care if it rains day or night. Most plants don't so much like being top watered with cold water on a sweltering hot sunny day. Use a watering can and water at the base if a plant goes into heat prostration. I've had plants recover from some pretty serious wilting, so don't yank something as dead until you give it at least a day or two to recover.
> 
> Crop rotation goes a long way toward preventing diseases in the soil that may splash up when hose watering. Other mitigation varies from mulching, to installing drip lines, to simply trimming up the lower leaves of the plant so they aren't near the ground. My tomatoes get trimmed up as they grow so the whole bottom 1' of stem has no leaves. You don't pick produce when it is wet either to avoid the transfer of rot causing organisms.


All good advice.....
Impatiens planted around your garden...clump here and there........Will wilt before most everything also....and come back when watered....kind of a watering gauge. 
New Guinea's in sunny locations.

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## Sarahaw

This wiki article is good

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## Michael aka Mac

There is a company called Aerogarden.com that self contained hydroponic gardens with Full Spectrum LED grow lights, and built in light timer and water pump..  most models have a variable light settings for various plants and for flowering stage. others also have both water pump and aerator.

The reason why I am mentioning them is that they have one of the best mediums for putting the seeds in and they also sell full spectrum LED lamps.

Personally, I own 8 hydroponic gardens, and I have never had an issue with the veggies or herbs ever tasting different then ones I grow outdoors.  I find that all of the stuff I plant in hydroponic gardens grow much faster and larger then in the outdoors, least the ones that can be grown hydroponically.  One year  i had a basil plant that hit close to 5 feet high,  ate a lot of pesto that year lol.



The hydroponic gardens that I have made are from those plastic shoe boxes, I drop in 1-2 fish tank stone aerators, and have a LED full spectrum grow light on a timer.  The only nutrients I use are from the previous nights water I made veggies in. Every month I drain the reservoirs of all my h20 gardens.  Been growing food in my hydroponic gardens since 2007, I just find it cool to have edible indoor plants. 

One thing though ⁬I had problems with and that is tap water (additives), so I pour water into a bucket and let it sit overnight, as the tap water was killing my hydro plants

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