# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Hunting & Trapping >  .22 squirrel issues, practical tactical licenced shooting "pest Control" discussion

## Wise Old Owl

Hi folks I have been a licensed pest control guy for 9 years. Many companies are litigious-ly afraid of guns when it comes to "squirrels" can't shoot them when you have a LLC or incorporation after your business name. I know for a fact that companies that have a iso9000 qualification will shut down a manufacturing plant if a pigeon gets past the plastic barrier and they bring in a marine marksman to shoot it in the head on the first shot. The birds poop is to fowl with bacteria to keep an operation clear. This happens at ports where they receive food and fruit. 

Lets move on... what would be better to stay legal  a break front air.22 or a real .22 rife, and what would be best to use and there isn't in IMO a good answer so please add why? I am not considering a .177 as it doesn't fit my needs. 
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## kyratshooter

Would "legality" not be determined by the local laws?

I once read an article in one of the leading gun mags back in the 1980s about special pest control units that shot nutrias in New Orleans using silenced .22 rifles w/red filtered lights attached.  They were operating right in the middle of the urban zone.

A good pest control weapon for such small critters would be a .22 with a suppressor.    A very accurate .22 and not some POS Ruger or Marlin 60.  You want no chance for a miss and stray slugs winging for hundreds of yards across the 'burbs. Really a cool deal since as a licensed professional you could write the entire thing, $200 tax and all, off as a business expense! 

The absolute best pest control firearm???  A supressed .410 shotgun with subsonic #6 shot.  No wall penetration, no roof penetration, no stray pellets hurting anyone when they return to earth.  Just dead critters.  

If the law stops you from discharging a firearm then I would go with the .22 pellet rifle. I still claim that I have killed more game with a Crossman 140 in .22 than any other gun I own.  Rabbits as well as squirrels and a few game birds.  I used that thing from the time I was 12 until I could legally purchase my own real firearms. 

I do not know why you have the aversion to the .177.  If all you are shooting is squirrels it should be sufficient.  A good springer will top 1000FPS with a standard pellet.

You should also be aware that some areas have laws against discharge of a pellet or air rifle also.  Same penalties as discharging any other firearm.

Unless you purchase very expensive precharged air rifle in .22 caliber about the best you are going to get out of a .22 is going to be about 800-900fps on that little 15 grain pellet.  That is less than a CB cap.

Ever consider climbing up in the trees and leaving them some rat poison?

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## hunter63

Have you considered traps?.....
My BYB (Back Yard Bunny) gun is a Crosman 760 Pumpmaster...kinda a cheapo......4 -5 pumps..... dead bunny ...w/pellet or BB.

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## Graf

If you do use a .22 I suggest using CB ammo range is about a hundred yards vs. 1 mile using LR

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## crashdive123

It would be much better for you to email your state regulatory body for an answer.  Since you are a licensed professional and they are the enforcement agency for that activity, their answer (in writing is what you want and need).

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## kyratshooter

I have to agree with Crash. 

An e-mail to the state is in order along with an e-mail to the county attorney.

Our opinions on what should be used are irrelevant when a state regulation, combined with local laws supersedes all opinions. 

Have we not been through this exact same discussion before?

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## Wise Old Owl

kyratshooter
 well very helpful post I don't remember posting this before and if I did, I honestly don't remember.  I have had discussions with Leo and Pennsylvania Wildlife inspectors and because of all the legality, they are reluctant to provide direction. I literally got a "don't ask and don't tell as I do not want to fill out paperwork mentality from the state employees.


Hunter - I already trap, here in zone one - some critters have been trapped before, and are leery.

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## Wise Old Owl

> If you do use a .22 I suggest using CB ammo range is about a hundred yards vs. 1 mile using LR



Most of everything I have done in the past is 100 feet.

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## Wise Old Owl

OMG - I am reading all the regulations... I will be back in three weeks!

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## kyratshooter

I fear that all you are going to get from the bureaucracy is a run around.  

I have checked all the areas around you and they all prohibit not only "firearms" and their discharge but also stipulate that the possession of an air rifle will get you a $1000 fine.

They do exempt law enforcement in the course of their duties and defense of life.

If one of those squirrels charges you are inside the legal boundaries.

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## Wise Old Owl

Yes I agree - This has been a long term frustration. I firmly plan to shoot the squirrel and put my wallet and identification in it's "back pocket" and say I was charged and robbed. 


All joking aside - to spend hours reading regulations on this is a total waste of time. But I have been doing it. I need a mentor.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

The folks who wrote the regs never had a squirrel in their attic chewing up wires trying to burn their house down.

I know a young man who made a very amiable arrangement with the local supermarket.  He would go in after hours with a Benjamin 22 cal pump pellet rifle and shoot all the sparrows that had gotten inside during the day.  When he was through he got to grocery shop for his pay.  I don't recall how much they actually compensated him but his family ate very well.



Alan

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## Wise Old Owl

Title 34, Chapt. 23 (a) Sec. 2308. Unlawful devices and methods.

(a) General rule. - Except as otherwise provided in this title, it is unlawful for any person to hunt or aid, abet, assist or conspire to hunt any game or wildlife through the use of:

(1) An automatic firearm or similar device.

(2) A semiautomatic rifle or pistol.

(3) Reserved.

(4) A semiautomatic shotgun or magazine shotgun for hunting or taking small game, furbearers, turkey or unprotected birds unless the shotgun is plugged to a two-shell capacity in the magazine.

*(5) Any device operated by air, chemical or gas cylinder by which a projectile of any size or kind can be discharged or propelled.*

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## kyratshooter

Those seem to be the state hunting regulations WOO.  I also found a series of regulations against the discharge of a firearm and possession of air rifles inside the various town/community limits which had no connection to hunting regs and each city block seemed to have their own legal system.  Just google your local areas title and "discharge of a firearm".

looks to me like the only alternative you have is to obtain a special exemption from the county/townships to shoot inside their limits of buy a bunch of tender traps and haul the offending critters away for disposal.

Not only that but it appears the individual communities and townships in your area all have their own set of laws independent from each other.  That means what is legal on this side of the street might be illegal on the other side of the street.

One thing is certain, anywhere and everywhere in PA the air rifle is a hated instrument.  Some of the areas ban their ownership and they are not to be hunted with anywhere in the state

Honestly, I would go with the traps.

If the home owners want them shot they can do it themselves.

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## hunter63

> Title 34, Chapt. 23 (a) Sec. 2308. Unlawful devices and methods.
> 
> (a) General rule. - Except as otherwise provided in this title, it is unlawful for any person to hunt or aid, abet, assist or conspire to hunt any game or wildlife through the use of:
> 
> (1) An automatic firearm or similar device.
> 
> (2) A semiautomatic rifle or pistol.
> 
> (3) Reserved.
> ...


Din't say anthing about SS or pump guns....just semi auto and auto's

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## kyratshooter

It does specify "Magazine shotguns", which would include pump and bolt guns but the restriction is referring to the magazine plug limiting the mag to two shot mag capacity with one in the chamber.  the normal 3 shot thing.

Most states have the same restriction on shotguns used for hunting.  

KY limits any shotgun in the hunting field to the 3 shot total and rifles have to use a 10 shot mag.  No 30 shot AR mags loaded to 10 rounds either.  It is a ten round total capacity.

This is the kind of thing WOO has to deal with in addition to the hunting laws, and each township has its own set of rules.  According to this set of regulations no one can even shoot an arrow into a hay bale or target in their own back yard without Township approval.  Even if they are outside of a town.

http://ecode360.com/7112622

It even gives the police the right to seize your property without warrant if you are found with an air gun in the township.  God only knows what they would do if you shot a squirrel with a .22!

Several other Townships have the exact same regulations so I am assuming they are uniform statewide.

Just buy the traps.

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## LowKey

Here in the wonderful People's Republic of Massachusettstan, you can get a special license as a "Problem Animal Control Agent" from the state Division of Fish and Wildlife that supercedes all the individual town ordinances. Lots of hoops to get one though and besides demonstrated marksmanship, there are a lot of dedicated courses to take. Has to be renewed every 2 years and costs some change. It includes trapping with "unlawful" traps and especially the part about hunting fur-bearers and deer out of season. 

A problem animal though just can't be digging up your ornamental grass lawn or flower garden. It has to be a health hazard in some way, in the house, or eating/molesting crops or livestock. (Chipmunks and moles and voles etc are exempt from hunting licenses here and most towns allow any number of rat trap variants for those. Squirrels are considered 'fur-bearing')

It is unlawful here to use a Havaheart to relocate an animal. A PACA might use one to assuage a homeowner's jitters, but I'm pretty sure he has to dispose of the animal after removal rather than move the problem to someone else's neighborhood. Sshh...don't tell. 

At the requisite hunters ed class I had to take, one of the instructors was a PACA that removed urban deer using a bow from a tree stand so as not to alarm the neighbors. Lots of well fed deer in the burbs (big Lyme disease problem here.) Guy said he'd fill the freezer then the rest goes to shelters. On the other end of the state, beaver are a huge health issue (giardia and flooding) and since the bleeding hearts in Boston made it a crime to harrass/kill beaver or break their dams, the PACAs do that too. We had one install drain pipes into the two dams near hear. The dam will get rebuilt if you break it, or new beaver move in if you kill them. But if you put the pipes under the dam, they don't hear the water flow and seem to ignore the lowered water level.

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## hunter63

That interesting.....pipes under the dam....

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## Wise Old Owl

> Here in the wonderful People's Republic of Massachusetts, you can get a special license as a "Problem Animal Control Agent" from the state Division of Fish and Wildlife that supercedes all the individual town ordinances. Lots of hoops to get one though and besides demonstrated marksmanship, there are a lot of dedicated courses to take. Has to be renewed every 2 years and costs some change. It includes trapping with "unlawful" traps and especially the part about hunting fur-bearers and deer out of season. 
> 
> A problem animal though just can't be digging up your ornamental grass lawn or flower garden. It has to be a health hazard in some way, in the house, or eating/molesting crops or livestock. (Chipmunks and moles and voles etc are exempt from hunting licenses here and most towns allow any number of rat trap variants for those. Squirrels are considered 'fur-bearing')
> 
> It is unlawful here to use a Havheart to relocate an animal. A PACA might use one to assuage a homeowner's jitters, but I'm pretty sure he has to dispose of the animal after removal rather than move the problem to someone else's neighborhood. Sshh...don't tell. 
> 
> At the requisite hunters ed class I had to take, one of the instructors was a PACA that removed urban deer using a bow from a tree stand so as not to alarm the neighbors. Lots of well fed deer in the burbs (big Lyme disease problem here.) Guy said he'd fill the freezer then the rest goes to shelters. On the other end of the state, beaver are a huge health issue (giardia and flooding) and since the bleeding hearts in Boston made it a crime to harrass/kill beaver or break their dams, the PACAs do that too. We had one install drain pipes into the two dams near hear. The dam will get rebuilt if you break it, or new beaver move in if you kill them. But if you put the pipes under the dam, they don't hear the water flow and seem to ignore the lowered water level.


uh I wanted to address this and I am so tired ... well I will attempt to pick this up tomorrow.

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## Rick

Are you any good at roping?

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## Wise Old Owl

I stayed at a Holiday Inn once in Wyoming....

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## Rick

Now that's funny.

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## tigrate

rattraps work pretty well. Peanut butter mixed with oatmeal is a great bait.

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## Sigint

> rattraps work pretty well. Peanut butter mixed with oatmeal is a great bait.


I have never heard of this one. Probably I will give it a try, cause I am so desperate.

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## crashdive123

> I have never heard of this one. Probably I will give it a try, cause I am so desperate.


This should be interesting.

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## Sigint

Well, guys, I see you have typed a long time ago here but I hope you might give me some recommendations. It sounds funny but I have become a squirrel hunter since they appeared in my yard. After moving to the country house, which is housed next to the forest, squirrels drop by and caused considerable damage, they damage my gardening, chewing wood and wires. That is why I would like to order some SPAM, however, I have no idea what might be the best choice to get rid of my squirrels. What is more, my kids have become so disappointed with our new «neighbours» because squirrels even take away food while kids are having meals. Guys, please. Pull me out of this trouble.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Help is on the way.


Alan

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## crashdive123

If you are worried about the kids not having enough to eat, eat the spam rather than use it to trap squirrels.

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## chiggersngrits

This may be off topic cause its not spam, but raisins are one of the best baits i ever used for a mouse trap. I just take one and mash it around the trigger so they can't steal it and they can't resist the sweet.

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