# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  Fire starting with no tools

## Red beard

Ok I've been researching fire starting, most info I find is tool or item specific or even regional specific....let's say I am driving with family and car breaks down and I have nothing.....no knife no para cord no knowledge of rocks, no knowledge of of trees...how do I make a fire....I can make fire from car parts and I usually have some way form of fire making..... But let's say I have nothing ...what is my best option?...most videos or pages don't give enough explanation of how or what they are using....anyone have good explanation link or video link to help me?

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## RangerXanatos

I'm not quite following you. A lot of friction fires are just tried to see if it works. I've done this with wood I didnt know what it was.  But I did use a knife. With out a knife, fire by friction would be harder but still possible. 

You may be able to find some type of high carbon piece of steel from your car to use on a rock to throw a spark. Would still be hard to find something to catch it on.

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## hunter63

> Ok I've been researching fire starting, most info I find is tool or item specific or even regional specific....let's say I am driving with family and car breaks down and I have nothing.....no knife no para cord no knowledge of rocks, no knowledge of of trees...how do I make a fire....I can make fire from car parts and I usually have some way form of fire making..... But let's say I have nothing ...what is my best option?...most videos or pages don't give enough explanation of how or what they are using....anyone have good explanation link or video link to help me?


Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.

I would start with friction fire using natural materials.....hand drill, bow drill, fire plow.
Then spark with stone, (flint) and a striker of steel......or really primitive certain rock with throw a spark when struck together.
(very tough to do, char cloth very useful)

Now if it's a wrecked car ...some of methods,..... battery,... lens for directing sunlight, steel for striker.....

Go through all the listed methods.....Google each one and check out the You tubes.

Situations are very specific......so will cover a lot of ground, as far as what would be "Best" .....different condition, materials, area.....Etc.

OR.....Carry several methods for Bic', Ferro rods, magnifying glass.. or......Road Flare.

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## Red beard

> I'm not quite following you. A lot of friction fires are just tried to see if it works. I've done this with wood I didnt know what it was.  But I did use a knife. With out a knife, fire by friction would be harder but still possible. 
> 
> You may be able to find some type of high carbon piece of steel from your car to use on a rock to throw a spark. Would still be hard to find something to catch it on.


Ok sorry...I did a bad job of explaining....let's take car out of equation because although I haven't tried I am confident I can make a fire from car parts......but I do go backpacking and I am looking to to make a primitive fire and learn how....when I go backpacking I always make a fire using striker just for fun, even though I have a cig lighter and matches as back up....but let's say I fall into river and my pack floats away and I am left with nothing.....I need fire....how do I do it...what is easiest way or only way......if I need certain rocks....how do identify them.....if i need wood how do I identify it(although I can determine hard, soft, cedar etc) just looking for the best explanation

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## RangerXanatos

To get a sharp edge I would go and smash rocks against each other. Around my area, quartz is about the only thing that can make an edge.

Then depending on the foilage, I would attempt the bamboo fire saw. It requires no cordage, would be easy to split, and minimal cutting. If bamboo is not available, I would try the bow drill and hand drill. Probably hand drill first and I would use some roots for cordage and tie thumb loops on the ends to keep a constant downward pressure. To try to keep from having to cut notches in the hearth,  I would tie two sticks together and let it make a natural place for the ember to form. The bow drill would be done much the same. The hand hold I would make from another rock with a divot drilled in with the sharpened quartz.

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## RangerXanatos

As a clarification, I have never attempted a friction fire without some sort of cutting tool or man-made cordage.

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## Red beard

> Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.
> 
> I would start with friction fire using natural materials.....hand drill, bow drill, fire plow.
> Then spark with stone, (flint) and a striker of steel......or really primitive certain rock with throw a spark when struck together.
> (very tough to do, char cloth very useful)
> 
> Now if it's a wrecked car ...some of methods,..... battery,... lens for directing sunlight, steel for striker.....
> 
> Go through all the listed methods.....Google each one and check out the You tubes.
> ...


Yes... Will need to do more research...just looking for good video or page that has best explanation because I can't find one

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## hunter63

Good start here.....
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rs-And-Tinders

Remember there is no "Best"...there is "Best right now with what I have to work with.....which varies"

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## Lamewolf

Find some paper in your car - owners manual or other paper, put some gasoline (very small amount) on a piece of the paper and ignite it with a spark from a sparkplug wire.  Done it many times.

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## MrFixIt

Try searching for "primitive fire making".
Those who came before us were successful survivors.

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## DSJohnson

Red Beard,
If you fall into the river, by yourself, in country you are not familiar with, and you are now trying to start a fire this would be my thinking. First choice I would look at the rocks along the shore/bank of the river you fell in.  Start with some of them, striking them against each other, looking for sparks, chipping, flaking, those kinds of qualities. When you find one that "knocks a spark" then you have a start.(I personally have never been able to start a fire with just two pieces of flint/sparking rock.  The sparks seem never to last and do not seem to have any "real" heat to them.)  If you can't find a rock that will make a spark you are back to making a fire by friction.  That is way more about the knowledge you have in your head and the understanding of how "fire by friction" happens than the materials at hand. They are very important BUT not as important as a very detailed and through understanding of how you actually make the fire.  It is very hard to give you the answer you want because of the limits you have imposed. No knife, no "tools" no cordage, no salvage.  Pretty unrealistic.

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## Rick

That's why God put pockets on pants. To carry essential stuff.

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## kyratshooter

OK fellas we got one here!!!

Someone that has never seen Naked and Afraid, Dual Survival, or Survivorman and has no knowledge of the existence of You tube.

Also another of our friends that changes the parameters of the situation in each post.  first we have a car, then we don't, now we have a canoe but we suddenly got naked when it tipped over.

And one that has not learned the second rule of threes; Always have three ways to start a fire with you, even when you fall out of the canoe, followed or preceded by by always have three cutting instruments with you, whichever you feel is more important.

Why is it that folks claim to be experienced in one area of outdoor activity and completely unable to transfer knowledge to another.  One would not put all the fire building and survival gear in the backpack to be lost in a single stroke of bad luck, so why would one strip everything off their belt and out of their pockets when boarding a canoe???

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## jdbushcraft

My parang, golock and Axe pull me straight to the bottom.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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## madmax

2 Bics in the truck.  2 Bics in the Subaru.  2 bics in the packs.  Firesteels in the packs. 

Given SOOL Il'd go with the battery and some gas.

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## kyratshooter

> My parang, golock and Axe pull me straight to the bottom.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Just as they should!

Why would anyone need a parang, golock and axe at the same time but not have a belt knife or pocket knife and a small fire steel on hand?

Just because there is an axe, or one of those other monstrosities, in the bottom of the canoe does not mean that you do not need other cutlery always available on your person.

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## DSJohnson

When I am in my vehicle I have at least 3 or 4 'normal" methods to start a fire not counting using batteries, hydrocarbons, or lens/glass from the vehicle
When I am in the canoe or a boat I usually have my Benchmade folder on a lanyard, a mag block and ferro rod, attached to my body, not counting the two other knives on my person or the match safe and Bic.
Commercial air travel is where I am at my lowest level of "ready"  Main reason I try to avoid it.

So for me anyway, either one of the poster's scenarios seem very far fetched.  Where on the North American Continent would you not recognize Oak, Hickory, Cottonwood and Willows? I have made a bowstring from clothing before but my knife lanyard makes a great bow string.

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## Rick

> _My parang, golock and Axe pull me straight to the bottom._





> y would anyone need a parang, golock and axe at the same time


Um...I think that's called irony. Good irony by the way. That's also the reason I no longer carry the canoe anchor in my pack. Learned that one the hard way.

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## hunter63

Well, boys....seemed we have failed again in providing a mythical scenario, with the BEST method to make something out of nothing, the secret method the we all know and won't tell anyone.

Secret.....Dollar Store 5 Bic's (or similar) 5 for a dollar........Buy a bunch, (a lot).... put one in every pocket, jacket, coat, bag, vehicle, tool box, pack, boat 4 wheeler......you own.

Then when you have a better stash of cash, do the same thing with mag bar/ fire steel/ferro rod, starters, put next to each lighter.

Now that you have a way to for sure make fire........and won't die just yet.
THEN play with all the other friction fire methods, (with local materials, haven't said where that is, so up to you) flint and steel/char cloth, burning glass, parabolic mirror, Mag light reflector, fire piston, battery/steel wool....until you are good at it.

Do this stuff NOW.......Before you crash your car, or sink the canoe.

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## DSJohnson

Wye yes, yes it is.  I got it!  and I actually know that feeling.  Tump over your canoe (never my fault of course) and into the drink I go.  Usually I have on pants with cargo pockets. At least 5 pounds of ballast there.  My 1911 in a shoulder rig with two full mags under the other arm.  Sheath knife probably on my belt and boots of course.  The perfect way to go for a swim!

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## Rick

I practice canoeing naked just in case.

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## DSJohnson

My eyes my eyes........

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## DSJohnson

Thinking about it.  Unless I am going to the woods as far as my EDC goes, I do NOT usually carry any cordage in my pockets or on my person.

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## Rick

> My eyes my eyes........




That right there folks is why they invented the ban button. No, really. It is.

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## hunter63

> Wye yes, yes it is.  I got it!  and I actually know that feeling.  Tump over your canoe (never my fault of course) and into the drink I go.  Usually I have on pants with cargo pockets. At least 5 pounds of ballast there.  My 1911 in a shoulder rig with two full mags under the other arm.  Sheath knife probably on my belt and boots of course.  The perfect way to go for a swim!


"Tump" must be a southern term......SIL and his family use it in Louisiana...
Always thought they were saying "dump".......
Interesting.

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## kyratshooter

> Thinking about it.  Unless I am going to the woods as far as my EDC goes, I do NOT usually carry any cordage in my pockets or on my person.


I usually count on my boot or shoe laces as cordage and I also wear belts woven from leather strips and 550 cord when out and about.

There are also things like "floss cards" that fit in the wallet.

There are also a lot of natural fibers you can twist some cord from.  Every area has it favored fibers from nettles to basswood bark.

It does not take but a couple of feet of cordage to make a fire bow.

I also found a supplier that carries 1/8" and 3/16" fire steels.  They are great for taping to a survival card in the wallet and I keep one in my keychain pill container, along with a cotton ball for tinder.  The cotton ball also keeps my nitro pills from turning into powder as they rattle around.

http://usaknifemaker.com/ferro-rods-...14661c47ed8e9c

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## Rick

I tried to cut a fero rod in half with a hack saw. Darn near burned the house down.

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## Duece

Lmao i broke one once and tried to drill a new hole through it once it heated up all the dust ignited....good thing was on concrete floor not wooden work bench or something likd that was amazed how fast heated up and lit off 
D

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## kyratshooter

> I tried to cut a fero rod in half with a hack saw. Darn near burned the house down.


You nick them with the hacksaw and snap them in a vise just like breaking off pieces of a file.

I did cut one of the magnesium blocks in half once.  Dang near took forever and I had a good pile of mag shavings at the end.

I mixed the mag shavings into some petroleum jelly and coated cotton balls with it for fire starting.

Ever see a cotton ball go up in a tiny mushroom cloud ?

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## Red beard

> Red Beard,
> If you fall into the river, by yourself, in country you are not familiar with, and you are now trying to start a fire this would be my thinking. First choice I would look at the rocks along the shore/bank of the river you fell in.  Start with some of them, striking them against each other, looking for sparks, chipping, flaking, those kinds of qualities. When you find one that "knocks a spark" then you have a start.(I personally have never been able to start a fire with just two pieces of flint/sparking rock.  The sparks seem never to last and do not seem to have any "real" heat to them.)  If you can't find a rock that will make a spark you are back to making a fire by friction.  That is way more about the knowledge you have in your head and the understanding of how "fire by friction" happens than the materials at hand. They are very important BUT not as important as a very detailed and through understanding of how you actually make the fire.  It is very hard to give you the answer you want because of the limits you have imposed. No knife, no "tools" no cordage, no salvage.  Pretty unrealistic.


Thanks for the explanation

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## Red beard

> OK fellas we got one here!!!
> 
> Someone that has never seen Naked and Afraid, Dual Survival, or Survivorman and has no knowledge of the existence of You tube.
> 
> Also another of our friends that changes the parameters of the situation in each post.  first we have a car, then we don't, now we have a canoe but we suddenly got naked when it tipped over.
> 
> And one that has not learned the second rule of threes; Always have three ways to start a fire with you, even when you fall out of the canoe, followed or preceded by by always have three cutting instruments with you, whichever you feel is more important.
> 
> Why is it that folks claim to be experienced in one area of outdoor activity and completely unable to transfer knowledge to another.  One would not put all the fire building and survival gear in the backpack to be lost in a single stroke of bad luck, so why would one strip everything off their belt and out of their pockets when boarding a canoe???



Ok some of you guys are just simply missing the point.....first of all I always have a way of making fire on hand or in car or in pack....cig lighter fire rod Cotten balls and etc. I was hoping to receive a great link to a video or web page that can explain how to make a fire from nothing, like perhaps a Native American would....I am pretty sure they did not have a buck knife or para cord handy.....that's what I was meaning with nothing....the car/river scenario was unimportant to question, yet some of you guys can't get over that....

I do have basic knowledge of friction and bow making fires....yet I don't know how to make my own cordage or cutting tools...I have seen naked and afraid type shows and I have used youtube.....but as most of you know some videos are made pretty bad and don't help much...that's why I am calling on you all for some help...not to be ridiculed for asking a complicated question....

And if you still need a scenario that would leave me in a situation with nothing.....let's say I was taken prisoner and stripped of all belongings and I managed to escape into nearby forest....hope that is good enough....even though it's not important to my question....I can think of a million ways to loose your personal belongings so that's why I ask....and for that reason I would like to learn....you can think all you want that because you have this and that always handy to make a fire or survive, then you will not be prepared for the unforeseen .

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## kyratshooter

I am truly sorry that the TSA got hold of you on your way to work.

Problem is that the Native Americans did not make fire from "Nothing".  They generally carried a fire kit just like we do, it just included a fire bow or spindle and some appropriate tinder.

https://archive.org/details/firemakingappara00houguoft

The Native Americans, or any stone age people, also have a sophisticated stone tool technology that they pass down from one to the other.  They are also restricted to use of the materials at hand and much of our nation does not have good stone to chip.  They had a vast network of trade to move that material from place to place and often substituted bone, shell or coral for flint.

So the answer to your question is that the Native Americans took out their fire bow and built a fire.  Or they made a fire bow using the tools they kept at hand just like we do.  Or they made the tools to make the firebow, which took some considerable length of time and a search for the materials needed.

None of them just snapped their fingers and fire, or even a fire kit, appeared.

If you do not know how to chip stone there are classes given on that craft at almost any archeological site in the nation, or they can point you to the nearest "Knap-in" where you can learn the craft.

If you do not know how to make cordage it is covered by many people in many books or you can go to the same archeological site and get a class in that craft too.  Making cordage is considered a skill equal to knapping flint in usefulness to the stone age cultures.  Making cordage is essential for creating snares and traps, not just fire bows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckqckOag2eI

After you have learned to pick up a sharp rock and twist dry grass, sinew or the inner bark of certain trees into cordage you will then need to know what wood in your area makes the best hearth board and spindle.  We have dozens of threads on that subject with *one in the primitive skills section just this week dealing with going from nothing to a chest high fire. In fact, your little tantrum knocked it out of sight. * 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...802#post460802

You did not even click on the thread that was already there and a partial answer to your question!  You ignored everything we have offered, discussed and catalogued for a decade.  Rather than making fun of you, are you not making fun of us? 

The answers you want are already here, you just need to use the search function and read a bit.

What you are asking for now is a complete lesson in stone tool technology, fire kit making, cordage twisting and the biology of wood needed for fire building technology in a couple of quick sentences.  It ain't going to happen!

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## hunter63

> Ok I've been researching fire starting, most info I find is tool or item specific or even regional specific....let's say I am driving with family and car breaks down and I have nothing.....no knife no para cord no knowledge of rocks, no knowledge of of trees...how do I make a fire....I can make fire from car parts and I usually have some way form of fire making..... But let's say I have nothing ...what is my best option?...most videos or pages don't give enough explanation of how or what they are using....anyone have good explanation link or video link to help me?


You did not give a location of the area you are in....Material and methods will be different. 




> Ok sorry...I did a bad job of explaining....let's take car out of equation because although I haven't tried I am confident I can make a fire from car parts......but I do go backpacking and I am looking to to make a primitive fire and learn how....when I go backpacking I always make a fire using striker just for fun, even though I have a cig lighter and matches as back up....but let's say I fall into river and my pack floats away and I am left with nothing.....I need fire....how do I do it...what is easiest way or only way......if I need certain rocks....how do identify them.....if i need wood how do I identify it(although I can determine hard, soft, cedar etc) just looking for the best explanation


So now you change the parameters........? 




> Ok some of you guys are just simply missing the point.....first of all I always have a way of making fire on hand or in car or in pack....cig lighter fire rod Cotten balls and etc. I was hoping to receive a great link to a video or web page that can explain how to make a fire from nothing, like perhaps a Native American would....I am pretty sure they did not have a buck knife or para cord handy.....that's what I with nothing....the car/river scenario was unimportant to question, yet some of you guys can't get over that....
> 
> I do have basic knowledge of friction and bow making fires....yet I don't know how to make my own cordage or cutting tools...I have seen naked and afraid type shows and I have used youtube.....but as most of you know some videos are made pretty bad and don't help much...that's why I am calling on you all for some help...not to be ridiculed for asking a complicated question....
> 
> And if you still need a scenario that would leave me in a situation with nothing.....let's say I was taken prisoner and stripped of all belongings and I managed to escape into nearby forest....hope that is good enough....even though it's not important to my question....I can think of a million ways to loose your personal belongings so that's why I ask


Looked to me like given the information given, answers were serious and straight forward........so pitching a hiss isn't  a good way to get any answers that haven't already been given.

So good luck to you...there is no magic answer.....and even the self proclaimed "Naked and Afraid" experts took days to make fire in some cases, and better than a day with a ferro rod starter, on one case.

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## Red beard

Thanks for the links....that is what I've been looking for.    I do know native Americans did carry a fire kit and didn't snap their fingers lol.....I've done some looking on this page and youtube but I always seem to find the really bad threads and videos....I am new to this site and finding all the info can be a little overwhelming for a newbie, even when the answers are right there in front of my face....I go on many jeep forums and newbies always ask dumb questions, I usually point them to the right direction.....I clearly should of asked things differently....instead of saying nothing I should of said natural materials. I should of never mentioned car planes trains or canoe....my original post just asked for good links to get me started......thank you to those who tried to help


And I am from Illinois but spend most of my outdoor time in Missouri...

Sorry one more thing....part of the reason I asked my question is because like I said it can be hard to find the good threads....my first experiance on this site was when I searched to see if in a survival situation and not near fish populated streams could I eat creek minnows....I found one thread that was filled with everyone telling stories of eating goldfish as kids and I learned nothing...so I thought maybe I would ask for valuable links

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## eaglescout123

I love this one, always have a pack of gum with you. the kind that has foil wrapping. also have a AA battery. hold a piece of foil at each end, and touch them together to make a spark.
Gum also helps to clean teeth and protect against dry mouth syndrome.

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## Rick

Having been raised in Illinois and having spent a fair amount of time in Missouri I can't for the life of me imagine a scenario in which you would be forced to make fire from nothing. There are only a few locations in Missouri and none that I can think of in Illinois that you can't walk a couple of miles in any direction and hit a road. The chances of you being in one of the few places where you can't walk out, being naked and needing to start a fire from scratch is about nil. That's part of the reason you received some of the answers you did.

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## Red beard

> I love this one, always have a pack of gum with you. the kind that has foil wrapping. also have a AA battery. hold a piece of foil at each end, and touch them together to make a spark.
> Gum also helps to clean teeth and protect against dry mouth syndrome.


I believe that is called a prison lighter

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## Red beard

> Having been raised in Illinois and having spent a fair amount of time in Missouri I can't for the life of me imagine a scenario in which you would be forced to make fire from nothing. There are only a few locations in Missouri and none that I can think of in Illinois that you can't walk a couple of miles in any direction and hit a road. The chances of you being in one of the few places where you can't walk out, being naked and needing to start a fire from scratch is about nil. That's part of the reason you received some of the answers you did.


We'll my friend me either.....I do like the idea of learning old ways and natural ways that's all...I will learn using knife and para cord first just to get a sense of it...but I  like a challenge
And I do occasionally leave the country.....and I have been mugged in Thailand. So anything can happen

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## Nochipforme

> Find some paper in your car - owners manual or other paper, put some gasoline (very small amount) on a piece of the paper and ignite it with a spark from a sparkplug wire.  Done it many times.


Just hope you don't use the page that tells you how to fix your broke down car. :No:  That would be counter productive.

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## hunter63

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.
There is an intro section at
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions




> Just hope you don't use the page that tells you how to fix your broke down car. That would be counter productive.


No worries my friend...read a owners manual lately?....Mostly full of "Thou shalt not's"....There is no, "This is what you do if this happens"
DW car has a line in the manual that says, "There are 7 things under the hood that are yellow colored....if it isn't yellow, don't mess with it."

Can't even find a chart or legend for the fuse block(s).....

Just a place to save warranty cards, and motor club numbers......

And 100 pages of your radio and Wifi........Besides if you die, some one else is gonna be looking for the manual.

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## Batch

The scenario doesn't matter and should just be ,"I would like to learn how to make a fire with out anything other than is found in a given area naturally."

You would have to specify the ecosystem if you want specific materials named.

There aren't any ways to make fire without tools, as when you make your kit it will become a tool. 

If in my region of South Florida, I would navigate to a hardwood hammock. If that is impractical, for what every reason. I would look for pines.

These will be drier than the other environments. You are already at a disadvantage because of daily rains and higher humidity we experience much of the year.

I would not even attempt primitive fire until you can assemble a fire that you can start every time with one match. And then have mastered the type of primitive fire you are going to attempt, first with the use of tools. That means using man made cordage and possibly a man made bearing block while learning the types of wood and tinder bundles. Once you have that skill dialed in you will have eliminated some of the more frustrating things about primitive fire starting. 

Then I would add either a foraged bearing block or cordage.

In my area there are always Coastal plain Willow, Cabbage Palm , Elderberry, and Strangler Figs. My preferred kit is willow on willow. I would use cabbage palm frond for a bearing block. It is almost ridiculous the number of tinders available to me. Kind of depends on the time of year. But, South Florida usually has something that uses aerial seed dispersal in seed. We have several types of thistle and it seems they seed year round as I have always been able to find some fluffy seed head.  Willow also puts out a fluffy seed head. Any seed head I have found has made excellent tinder. Palm fibers from various palms such as the cabbage palm and saw palmetto make excellent tinder and is over abundant. Dried grass is also found year round. Just rake your fingers through the dried grass and take only what comes out with out needing to pull. This leaves you with only the driest grass.

South Florida has very high humidity and almost daily thunder storms. But, it is also pretty hot. Take advantage of that heat and collect and protect your tinder and kindling after the sum has burned off the morning dew. But, before any thunderstorms. since you have no man made way of protecting this material. Lay some cabbage palm fronds in a protected spot under a good tree and place more pond fronds over top off them. Dead palm fronds burn very hot and will definitely help get things going.

All south Florida woods is loaded with vines. Some are stronger than others and some of the 5 species of briars, several species of grapes, balsam apple, virginia creeper, passion flower vines, morning glory, rosary pea and hairy cow pea and other peas and vines. One that is very strong and doesn't have thorns or much in the way of foliage is the lovevine. That would be my choice for my first attempt. I have made cordage from palm dander and vines. But, I have never used it on a bow drill. So, I don't know how love vine will be as far as abrasion resistant. It is small and very strong vine though and a braided or even twisted cord should be good.

I have also seen videos where someone is using palm frond fibers peeled from the green outer layer of a frond. You could also find a long thin young frond and probably twist that into a manageable strong cord. Braided green palm fiber would definitely work. But, you have to process and braid the fiber. So, I would try some of the vines first. To say that they are abundant in my woods is a great understatement!

If you google palm bow drill, you will see some videos that show people using only cabbage palm for everything.

It is going to be some work getting the kit with out a knife or saw. I would think you could break a useable heart from a willow as they always have dead parts. Getting the notch right may be difficult. I have never tried tying two sticks together to make a groove for your dust pile. But, I will now that I read it above. Otherwise, I would try to scratch a notch with a piece of limestone that is everywhere. Your drill should be relatively easy in comparison to the notch.

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## hunter63

That's a heck of a write up....thanks for posting.

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## primitiveskills

Your question is a great one and you CAN become proficient enough to make fire from the landscape if you are willing to invest the "dirt time". Start with bow drill. The mechanical advantage of the bow allows you to get a coal even in wet conditions. I start my students with manufactured cord until they can work up to getting a working set off the landscape with rock tools. This takes about five days, about three hours of practice and coaching each day until they can go out with a piece of cord and have fire in under thirty minutes. After that, add natural cordage. You have to change your form to prevent the cord from abraiding against itself, but there is no feeling like fire off the landscape from nothing. Hand drill is technically more simple, but physically a little more demanding. It is a desert technology, so dry conditions and materials are an important factor in success. The best of both worlds is the inuit strap drill. The mechanical advantage of a bow drill with the ease of use of a hand drill, plus you don't have to put it on the ground. Here is a video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN7Vf1Hr3fc

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## Wolfhound

If I was out on the road and the car broke down and I had NOTHING else with me to start a fire, I would short the battery.  Poof...fire.  Most cars also have a cig lighter.  Even a "dead" car battery will start a fire.  Oh yeah, you still have fuel in the fuel rail which can be used to start a fire.  A bulb can be broken open and placed in tinder and turned on to start a fire.  The list goes on...

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## Rick-SAR

Question?  What was the way many Mountain Men used to start fires in the 1800?  Answer a Magnifying Glass (see "www.californiatrailcenter.org").  I bought an exact replica at the Jim Bridger Rendezvous a few years ago in WY.  It is shaped in such a way that I think I could start a fire at night with moon glow.  I never leave home without it.

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## kyratshooter

That is probably a good system in New Mexico.

Not so much in an area like the Pacific northwest where it rains 250 days a year and has cloud cover the other 115.

Like Batch said, it is all climate and resource related.

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## WalkingTree

Ain't Bear Claw Chris Laphin, what who did know'ed Jeremiah Johnson, blood kin to the beast what took a bite out of Jim Bridger?

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## bigbob

Assuming there are consumable materials in the area for a fire and some sticks, possibly trees or shrubs...
Learn how to make cordage from roots (eg pine) or things like milkweed or dogbane bark. If you have clothing, you could use it to make cord for a bow drill, but depending on weather/location, it might be best to save your clothes. Shoe or Bootlaces are a good option.
If you have a knife, it is easier. Get a soft wood, but not one full of sap like pine full of sap to use a s a base (heather board).  Use same material to make a drill, around the diameter of one of your fingers and around 6 inches or so long. Smooth it round. Get a piece of rock with an indent or make one from wood to hold the top of the spinning drill, blunt at the base and pointed where it is held above in the rock or wood cap.  Flatten the top of the heather board and start a depression for the rounded base of the drill and work it until it blackens and you see dust coming off. Then work/cut a notch in the side of the base board to catch the dust and let it pile up toward the top of the base board. You should have a leaf/board, stone etc under the base board and notch to catch the ember when it forms. You will see smoke and when it remains when you stop using the bow, there should be an ember. A technique not often mentioned is to hold the cap and the drill with your wrist snug against your shin. Have a 'bird's nest' of fiber or grass, down, etc in which to put the ember and blow it into a flame. Be sure to have wood for fire ready. Watch videos of how this is done.

If no material for bow and cordage, you can use a hand drill with much the same technique. Learn how to hold your hands with fingers of alternate hands pointing up and down to keep from sliding down the drill stick. Again, watch videos. Then practice until you have done it at home several times.

This assumes you will not use other technhiques like parts from car and nothing is available


The bow does not have to be flexible.

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## Zachary Fowler

So like was alredy said you got friction fire methods bow drill, hand drill, the spiny top weighted  fire drill thing and fir plow.   Then theres the fire from ice by makine a lenz from the ice but it has to clear and cold and suny for that to work.    There is on more i dont think anyone has mentioned and i havent perfected  yet where you role and twist up some ceader bark like a fat stogy.   Place it betwen to flat boards or a split  log halfs the meet together  well.  Then you slide  the top board back and forth roling the  ceader bark stogy betwean  the to till the friction  builds and you get a ember.

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## hunter63

> So like was alredy said you got friction fire methods bow drill, hand drill, the spiny top weighted  fire drill thing and fir plow.   Then theres the fire from ice by makine a lenz from the ice but it has to clear and cold and suny for that to work.    There is on more i dont think anyone has mentioned and i havent perfected  yet where you role and twist up some ceader bark like a fat stogy.   Place it betwen to flat boards or a split  log halfs the meet together  well.  Then you slide  the top board back and forth roling the  ceader bark stogy betwean  the to till the friction  builds and you get a ember.


Most orf the roll fire need ashes to be added to the "stogy"...
I have not done this.....

More about it.....

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## Zachary Fowler

Nice i never saw it dun i just herd of it in an old book and couldnt get it to work.  Thanks hunter

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## WalkingTree

(hunter's vid) Wow! That one is a new one for me. You "roll" the fibers back and forth and get embers? Never would've thought of that. Really...I'm still flipping over this one...rolling the stuff back and forth. Geez lu-weez.

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## hunter63

Yeah, pretty cool...first vid I saw used a shop rag...we had a lot in the factory...seems like one of the multi use things we use for everything from hand wipers' to neck coolers to hot pads to checking for acids....ours were set up like litmus paper, acid would turn it dark blue or black.

Couldn't find it just yet......

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## NightSG

> Um...I think that's called irony. Good irony by the way. That's also the reason I no longer carry the canoe anchor in my pack. Learned that one the hard way.


I thought about offering inflatable anchors to save space on boats, but I never could find investors.

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## WalkingTree

...just rolling the stuff back and forth. Not "scraping" surfaces back and forth against each other. But simply rolling. That gets another 'wow'.

See, I guess if someone asked me, I'd say I guess it creates some heat, sure. But I wouldn't have thought it'd be enough to make fire. But now...the secret, as usual, is in preparing small fibers the right way. So when you roll them back and forth, the effect can be more powerful than I would have ever thought, just rolling them back and forth. Man, next thing you know, I'll find out that as long as you have dry small fibers...you can just give them a dirty look and you have fire.

By the way, always wondered something. Fire pistons. We know how they work. But it's hard imagining how people long ago thought of that. They were much more intelligent than is popularly characterized...I'm one of the ones who've always "begged to differ" whenever someone would say that primitive people "couldn't have know this or that", etc. I'd say "how do you know?? Why were they automatically stupid just because they lived long ago?"

But, fire pistons. That's a tough one. Rubbing two sticks together, easier to imagine - caveman "ooga booga the third" absentmindedly rubs some wood back and forth somewhere for a while, while stewing over how "MR unka bunka" took his favorite tree limb, and sees smoke...then they figure it out from there. But what chain of accidental events would lead to the precise compression resulting in an ember like with a fire piston? The other option is that someone figured out the theoretical concept...and that, by the way, is what's important with a lot of the stuff in here, understanding the concepts so that you figure out things on your own instead of having to have specific methods that you blindly follow...however, I can't imagine any way that a primitive people would have realized that compressing air makes it hot, and thinking that this could be combined with something that could ignite. It takes a lot of relatively precise work and fore-understanding to make a fire piston and to also make it work.

However, this is with my assumption...but I don't really know...that fire pistons were used by primitive and aboriginal people long before any kind of industrial revolution - and even then, that's assuming that there weren't a lot of primitive equivalents to theoretical physicists who could conceive of and understand certain concepts that were completely unknown in real practice.

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## hunter63

Visits from Ancient Aliens....Everyone knows that....Sheesh

They may have thought it was like this:

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## WalkingTree

2759e0bce41335282b094ba678ee3a45.jpg



That's some funny stuff right there.

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## wmcmahon

I apologize if I missed this in the thread, but does anyone have knowledge on how to create flint and steel fire without a char cloth? I started learning flint and steel last spring, but every method I have learned requires some type of charcoal or char cloth to hold the spark. On TV (lol) people always drop the spark directly into the tinder and boom, fire...anyone know if that is actually possible?

Thanks in advanced
Wes

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## kyratshooter

The spark from a F&S is not strong enough to catch most raw tinder directly.  It might catch milkweed or cat tail fluff if it was extremely dry.  Nothing I know of will go directly from spark to flame with a normal F&S set.

I have sprinkled gunpowder on the tinder bundle and used that to explode into flame.  You can rub black powder into most anything and ignite it directly.  Some folks dissolve black powder and soak cloth in the solution, then let it dry.  They call it a rub cloth.  That will also burst into flame.  It works with Pyrodex too.  Even shredded bark will burst into flame if you soak it and let it dry.

you can also dissolve stump remover (same nitrates as used in black powder) into a solution and soak about anything in it and get a flame from spark.  We used to use cotton rope soaked in stump remover for matchlock and cannon firing cord.  It glows forever. 

However you can use F&S without char-cloth or char-punk.  You can catch the spark directly on the edge of frayed pure cotton cloth.  If the frayed edge has been burned previously the burned area will catch and glow just like char-cloth. 

You can use the glowing edge to light your tinder bundle and then put the strip of cloth out and use it again next time.

It works especially well if you use a flat lamp wick like those used in kerosene lamps.  

A strip of cloth or lamp wick laid in the flash-pan of a flintlock rifle will catch a glowing edge every time.

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## crashdive123

Punk wood, amadou and fat lighter work well.

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## NightSG

> The spark from a F&S is not strong enough to catch most raw tinder directly.  It might catch milkweed or cat tail fluff if it was extremely dry.  Nothing I know of will go directly from spark to flame with a normal F&S set.


Tried some thistle fluff last year.  It was bone dry and pretty much like flash paper; a golf ball sized chunk of it caught the spark, flamed up and was just plain gone in 2-3 seconds.  If I'd had it in a tinder bundle, I'm pretty sure I'd have had the easiest fire I've ever made without a lighter and kerosene.

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