# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  Are all tents waterproof?

## Endworld Guy

Hi guys, 
now and again I see in various tent adverts that they've got a "waterproof rating", sometimes it's a high number and sometimes lower.
Are some tents more waterproof than others?
If we go into a shop to buy a tent, we expect it to be 100% waterproof, right?

----------


## Graf

All tents are not waterproof some are misleading and list as water resistant or weather resistant this is not the same as waterproof, it simply means it resist or slows penatration. I just bought a tent and looked at several final decided on a Eureka it came down to that or a Kelty both good tents. I suggest purchasing from  manufacturer not just  someone who slaps there label on it and sells $50.00 cheaper. Pole construction looks the same but the quality is very different as is the seams and zippers. Look for a bathtub floor which means the seam is about 6" off the ground all the way around. Best of luck.

----------


## Rick

Pretty much what Graf said. The ratings are in mm. Tents are generally between 800 and 1500mm. The higher the rating the better the waterproofing. The fabric is subjected to a 5 inch column of water Xmm deep (800 to 1500 mm) for 1 minute before one drop of water will soak through. The higher rating in mm is also better because the coating will wear over time decreasing the waterproof ability of the material. In other words. A higher rating will be waterproof longer. A 1500mm rating is usually only found on professional, high end tents. That would be waterproof in a severe storm. Other considerations are double walled, rain fly and footprint. All help ensure a waterproof tent. As Graf said, look at the wording closely.

----------


## Rick

Oh, yeah. One other thing. Vents. Vents help to reduce humidity on the inside of the tent reducing the likelihood of wet gear due to condensation from your body and breath.

----------


## finallyME

Not all tents are waterproof, and for good reason.  There are different ways to waterproof a tent, and different tent fabrics.  All play a role.  Different parts of the tent are waterproofed as well.  If you have a double wall tent, you don't want the inner wall to be waterproof, just the outer fly.  A silnylon tent usually needs the seems sealed by the purchaser, it is just too labor intensive (ie costs a lot) for the manufacturer.  My kids have a play tent that isn't waterproofed at all.  It gets set up in the basement.  Also, if you buy a tent with a bikini fly, good luck with that!

----------


## Endworld Guy

So if any ordinary Joe who doesn't know much about tents buys one thinking it'll be waterproof, he could be in for a rude shock when he goes camping and gets wet! 
For example I bought this single-skin Global Trek Commander a couple of years ago from Woolworths for only about £15 (22 US dollars) and nowhere does the packaging say a word about whether it's waterproof, it simply says '100% Polyethylene', but whether that means it's waterproof i don't know. (I haven't camped in the rain with it yet)
The material is the same on both sides with no sign of a shiny waterproof coating. I've been able to suck air through it with my mouth so I doubt if it'll keep rain out and I think I'd better get a waterproof spray to treat the inside with, which I presume will put a plastic film on it-  

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Rick

Close it up, hook up a hose and spray it down. That should tell you before you take it out and get a bad surprise.

----------


## Sourdough

> If we go into a shop to buy a tent, we expect it to be 100% waterproof, right?



Good Luck with That....................Hehehehehehe

----------


## Sarge47

The highest rating a good tent can get is "4 Season."  That usually means that they don't need a rain fly and that the fabric is water-tight...I don't own one...and the pic you showed?  Well, no offense intended, but if I had one of those I'd give it to a homeless person, it beats a cardboard box by a long shot!

All my tents are 3 season, and since I don't backpack I go with the Coleman brand...usually.  I want a made-to-order rain-fly that reaches the ground & is 100% waterproof, but not the inside walls.  they need to "breath" a bit.  That way I don't get moisture inside the tent from sweating.  However I DO seal the seams of the inside walls with a good seam sealer if they haven't been taped.  This is a MUST!  

A good, inexpensive investment for sopping up moisture inside a tent is a sponge, I can vouch that they work great. Lacking that your bandanna can also help with the job.

Remember, you get what you pay for so go with a good brand.  Coleman, Kelty, Wenzel, Eureka, The North Face, and REI all have nice tents.  You first, however, need to determine where you're going to use the tent; backpacking?  Car camping? Whatever.  Then you can figure out what size and weight will work best for you.  If you're thinking about Backpacking you might want a solo tent or even a "bivy bag."  On this forum we have many suppliers as sponsors, including Campmor and Amazon.  Check them out.  However, don't shell out your hard earned cash until you run it by the forum members.Feedback and reviews are priceless for help in making the right buying decision.     :Cowboy:

----------


## Sarge47

Some good places to start:

http://www.campmor.com/gear/tents.shtml

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...keywords=Tents

http://www.rei.com/category/4500001_Tents+and+Shelters

Happy hunting!     :Yes:

----------


## Winter

Tents leak. Most lightweight, non silicone treated, fabrics are only water proof due to gravity. If a stick or cord is touching the fabric it will leak. Goretex leaks bad if you are breaking brush. My $100 silnylon tarp leaks. No fabric can ever really be waterproof. 

Older tent fabrics are only waterproof after they get thoroughly wet.

Visqueen is 100% waterproof. 

So, best advice I have is set up the tent according to directions and/or have a secondary cover.

----------


## Grunt

Water proof or not I always stretch a poncho over my tent after 20 years in the infantry I can tell You once everthing gets wet it's not fun any more.

----------


## ClayPick

I have a fond spot for the old canvas tents, even if they weighed a ton. Most noticeable was a Woods Tourister witch stood up to any weather. It kept me protected for 6 summers while working for the Geological Survey of Canada. That was in the 70’s. I find it hard to throw the money they want for a good tent today and opt out for a ground sheet, bug screen and a tarp. The body is getting to old to spend much time sleeping to close to the damp ground now.

----------


## Sarge47

...and now that we've completely confused you... :no way:

----------


## finallyME

> The highest rating a good tent can get is "4 Season."  That usually means that they don't need a rain fly and that the fabric is water-tight...I don't own one...and the pic you showed?  Well, no offense intended, but if I had one of those I'd give it to a homeless person, it beats a cardboard box by a long shot!
> 
> All my tents are 3 season, and since I don't backpack I go with the Coleman brand...usually.  I want a made-to-order rain-fly that reaches the ground & is 100% waterproof, but not the inside walls.  they need to "breath" a bit.  That way I don't get moisture inside the tent from sweating.  However I DO seal the seams of the inside walls with a good seam sealer if they haven't been taped.  This is a MUST!  
> 
> A good, inexpensive investment for sopping up moisture inside a tent is a sponge, I can vouch that they work great. Lacking that your bandanna can also help with the job.
> 
> Remember, you get what you pay for so go with a good brand.  Coleman, Kelty, Wenzel, Eureka, The North Face, and REI all have nice tents.  You first, however, need to determine where you're going to use the tent; backpacking?  Car camping? Whatever.  Then you can figure out what size and weight will work best for you.  If you're thinking about Backpacking you might want a solo tent or even a "bivy bag."  On this forum we have many suppliers as sponsors, including Campmor and Amazon.  Check them out.  However, don't shell out your hard earned cash until you run it by the forum members.Feedback and reviews are priceless for help in making the right buying decision.



Sarge, I have never seen a 4 season tent without a fly.  They are always double walled with the inner wall not waterproof.  In fact, the fly is usually not as waterproof as many 3 season tents of the same price range.  There is a reason for that.  You don't need waterproofness in heavy snow, well, not as much as in rain.  A 4 season should really be called a one season.  They are made for winter, not summer.  Also, Wenzel is not on my list of good brands.  You also have to watch out with Coleman.  They have some excellent products, and some not so excellent.  If it says Coleman Max, then chances are it is a good one.  Eureka is kinda the same way.  They have some pretty crappy tents, but they also have some amazingly good ones.  The price will generally key you in to which ones are good.

Endworld, if your tent is truly polyethylene, then chances are the "fabric" is 100% water proof.  Look at the seams.  How did they connect the seams?  Did they sew it with thread, or heat seal it.  If they sealed with thread and no heat seal, then the seams will probably leak really bad.  If they don't leak bad now, they will after a couple trips.  Also, does the fabric look woven, like a shirt or pants?  My guess is that it is not woven.  If it is, then is it woven the same as the bottom floor of the tent, (ie, with wide woven bands) ?  If it looks like it is woven more like clothing than a basket, then chances are it is not 100% polyethylene.  It might be nylon with polyurethane coating.  If it says 100% polyurethane than that is the waterproofing material.  As long as all the seams are taped, it should be fairly waterproof.  At least for a couple uses.  Now, if it really is polyethylene, then with those fiberglass poles, the tent will be destroyed in a good wind.  More like shredded.  Also, try sleeping in it on a really muggy night.  It will feel like it is raining in the tent, even if the sky is clear outside.

Tents are like anything else.  You get what you pay for.  If you spent less than $100, then chances are it won't last long.

----------


## hunter63

Canvas tents get wet, fabric swells and water runs off if you don't touch it and form a "leaky spot"
Not for back packing........

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Endworld Guy

> Close it up, hook up a hose and spray it down. That should tell you before you take it out and get a bad surprise.


Ah if only I had a garden to set tents up in! 
I live on the top floor of this small apartment block on the waterfront 50 yards from the Atlantic but it's not too bad because if sea levels rise due to global warming, or if a tsunami hits, the flats below mine will flood first, hopefully leaving my place high and dry.. :Smile: 

 Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Endworld Guy

> ..Endworld, if your tent is truly polyethylene, then chances are the "fabric" is 100% water proof.  Look at the seams.  How did they connect the seams?.....


Hard to tell, but i'm very impressed with the general workmanship and design for only 22 bucks, so full marks to a little gal in China with a sewing machine!
Incidentally I got it from Woolworths Toy Dept (who just laughed?), it's very small, I'm 5 ft 8" and can just fit snugly in, it might have been produced for the Chinese market (average male height 5 ft 6") so obviously Woolies buyers must have mistakenly thought it was a kid's play tent.
 But I don't care if it's for kids or not, all I know is that it does the two things that a tent should do, namely bug protection (it's got a big bug mesh) and rain protection (I intend spray-waterproofing it to make sure). 
Here's the factory pic again, I've since sewn a small porch on so I can leave the  big doors unzipped all night for maximum ventilation. It's not a 'proper' tent of course, but it'll do as a lowland summer overnight shelter.. :Smile: 

 Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.



PS- the only other tent I've got at the moment is a bigger heavier Eurohike Tamar (below), which is more of a proper tent with an inner and outer, and the fly seems to have a good waterproof coat on the inner surface, although the instruction leaflet advises us to re-waterproof it at the start of every season.
It was fairly cheap around £40 (about 55 US bucks) and this is the one i'll use for living in for extended stationary campsite holidays or after Doomsday.. :Smile: 
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Endworld Guy

> ...and now that we've completely confused you...


Not a bit!
I've been camping on and off for 30 years and didn't know until you guys told me that not all tents are fully waterproof!
Amazing, mankind's awesome genius can fly to the moon and devise sensational new TV game shows, but some of his tents are as leaky as old buckets!

----------


## finallyME

> Ah if only I had a garden to set tents up in! 
> I live on the top floor of this small apartment block on the waterfront 50 yards from the Atlantic but it's not too bad because if sea levels rise due to global warming, or if a tsunami hits, the flats below mine will flood first, hopefully leaving my place high and dry..
> 
>  Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


So, you live in an "apartment block" but each unit is called a "flat".  Why don't you call it a "flat block"?

----------


## Rick

'Cause it's tall, silly. By the by. That's a neat looking port.

----------


## Sarge47

> Sarge, I have never seen a 4 season tent without a fly.  They are always double walled with the inner wall not waterproof.  In fact, the fly is usually not as waterproof as many 3 season tents of the same price range.  There is a reason for that.  You don't need waterproofness in heavy snow, well, not as much as in rain.  A 4 season should really be called a one season.  They are made for winter, not summer.


*Really?  I would agree with you on the "1season" thing, but had no idea on the waterproofing.  I don't remember where I heard it from, but I could have sworn they were only single walled!  Wow, learn something new everyday!   *  :no way: 






> Also, Wenzel is not on my list of good brands.  You also have to watch out with Coleman.  They have some excellent products, and some not so excellent.  If it says Coleman Max, then chances are it is a good one.  Eureka is kinda the same way.  They have some pretty crappy tents, but they also have some amazingly good ones.  The price will generally key you in to which ones are good.


*Many of the backpacking stores I've been in sell Wenzel tents, but I've never used one, I'll take your word on that.  However I own 3 different types of Coleman tents, none of which are Coleman Max, and they all have done very well, better than store brands anyway.  One I've had for almost 20 years.  Besides, any Coleman tent will be a step up from the dime store ones he's showing...and for doomsday?  Hmmm...good luck with that Endworld Guy.   *  :1: 







> Tents are like anything else.  You get what you pay for.  If you spent less than $100, then chances are it won't last long.


*Well, we both agree on this anyway!*
 :Balloon:

----------


## Old Professor

I have a Cabela's Alaskan tent with a rain fly. I have slept in it in some very heavy down pours and been totally dry. It is somewhat heavy but we use it for vehicle camping. Once we were camped in a site with a low spot were, naturaly we set up the tent. A heavy down pour put two inches of water around the tent but no water came in past the water proof floor. I would reccomend Cabela's Alasken tents very highly.

----------


## Sarge47

> I have a Cabela's Alaskan tent with a rain fly. I have slept in it in some very heavy down pours and been totally dry. It is somewhat heavy but we use it for vehicle camping. Once we were camped in a site with a low spot were, naturaly we set up the tent. A heavy down pour put two inches of water around the tent but no water came in past the water proof floor. I would reccomend Cabela's Alasken tents very highly.


Can't believe I forgot to mention Cabela's...my bad.    :Oops:

----------


## finallyME

> *Really?  I would agree with you on the "1season" thing, but had no idea on the waterproofing.  I don't remember where I heard it from, but I could have sworn they were only single walled!  Wow, learn something new everyday!   *


I not in anyway an expert on 4 season tents.  I have done a little research on them, and listened to guys who know a lot more than I do.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were single wall 4 season tents out there.  I just haven't seen one yet.  There are also a bunch of "4 season" tents that aren't really 4 season.  More like 3+ season.  For many places in the US, a 3+ season tent will be more than adequate all year, even in snowy regions.  The Eureka Timberline tents are a good example of this.  Those suckers will take just about anything.  But, they have too much ventilation for a true 4 season.  The fly is also too small.  But, it will take some heavy snow fall.  You know, now that I think about it, there are some gortex tents.  Those are probably 4 season, and the gortex would make them single walled.





> *Many of the backpacking stores I've been in sell Wenzel tents, but I've never used one, I'll take your word on that.  However I own 3 different types of Coleman tents, none of which are Coleman Max, and they all have done very well, better than store brands anyway.  One I've had for almost 20 years.  Besides, any Coleman tent will be a step up from the dime store ones he's showing...and for doomsday?  Hmmm...good luck with that Endworld Guy.   *


Campmor sells Wenzel, and Cabelas sells another brand that is exactly the same with a different brand name.  I think it is called "Eagle's Camp".  I wouldn't want to be stuck in a midwest rain storm in one of those.  In other words, "Good luck with that!"  Coleman is an interesting company.  Most of their older stuff is great quality.  Only recently have they been separating into the cheap and high quality.  If you know what to look for, you can get some good stuff.

----------


## Sarge47

> Coleman is an interesting company.  Most of their older stuff is great quality.  Only recently have they been separating into the cheap and high quality.  If you know what to look for, you can get some good stuff.


Yes, I've heard that about Coleman, although their tents seem to hold up better than cheap store brands.     :1:

----------


## Endworld Guy

> So, you live in an "apartment block" but each unit is called a "flat".  Why don't you call it a "flat block"?


I'm having to use a mix of the english and american languages so that you colonials will understand what i'm talking about!
Incidentally England thanks Neil Armstrong for ensuring english was the first language spoken on the moon; who can forget his immortal words-"That's a giant leap for the english language"..

----------


## Rick

That's what was broadcast. His first words were, "Would you look at that? If people don't start cleaning up after their dog..." but NASA muted that.

----------


## Sarge47

> That's what was broadcast. His first words were, "Would you look at that? If people don't start cleaning up after their dog..." but NASA muted that.


Hmmm, I heard it was "Hey Dave, I can see your house from here!"     :W00t:

----------


## Beans

> That's what was broadcast. His first words were, "Would you look at that? If people don't start cleaning up after their dog..." but NASA muted that.


I was under the impression that that he referred to it as an orginial "Moon Pie"

----------


## Daniel Nighteyes

> Water proof or not I always stretch a poncho over my tent after 20 years in the infantry I can tell You once everthing gets wet it's not fun any more.


And a hearty *+1!!!*

----------


## Daniel Nighteyes

With modern tents the greatest possibility of leakage comes at the seams.  Waterproof the seams, with readily available seam-sealer, and most (not all) of your problem is solved.

I have three tents -- a one-person, a two-person, and a many-person -- and have sealed the seams on all.  Though we have weathered some "frog-strangling rains" in these tents, we have not had even a single leak.

The other piece of the puzzle is WHERE one chooses to pitch the tent.  Pitch it in a low spot, and you're gonna get wet.  Period. Paragraph.  End of story.

----------


## Rick

> With modern tents the greatest possibility of leakage comes at the seams.




or missing the P bottle at 2:00 a.m.

----------


## crashdive123

Bottle?


Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Winter

> Canvas tents get wet, fabric swells and water runs off if you don't touch it and form a "leaky spot"
> Not for back packing........
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


What's with the newfangled tents?
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## hunter63

Yeah, well that when we move up to "The big house' from the Tipi:
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

With the remote la-nigh.......
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------

