# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Livestock and Animal Husbandry >  Raising Chickens

## Chris

I want to raise chickens, not now because we don't have the room and I imagine there is going to be a city ordinance against livestock in the yard. But when my wife finishes school and we move out into the country for sure.

We had some when I was a kid, probably around 10, and had eggs for a few months, then a lynx or mountain lion got into the coop and that was the end of that. Tried a second time and the same thing happened. My dad should have built a more secure structure.

Anyways, I was curious, what is the point of a rooster? Other than waking you up in the morning, do you need a rooster to encourage laying? Obviously if you want fertilized eggs you'll need a rooster, but assuming you don't want any chicks, just a lot of omelettes, what is the point of a rooster?

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## tacmedic

You don't really have to have a rooster.  I raised laying hens for years and never had one.  Some of my friends had them and said that the reason they had them was for protection of the hens since the roosters are much more agressive and (in theory) will try to fight off predators.  Interestingly, in the town that I currently live in poultry are not considered livestock.  So technically you can have chickens and ducks in town.  There are several people not far from me that have chickens, I can hear the roosters early in the morning sometimes.  So, you might check with your city and see if they are allowed in your city.

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## Sourdough

Chris, McMurrayHatchery.com Is very helpful, with any questions, and they have great catalogs. I have gone to heavy chain link fencing to keep the predators out. And I use orange plastic barricade fencing on the top to keep the Bald Eagles out. You do not need the rooster for egg production. But depending on the breed older chickens will stop laying at about 4 to 7 years of age. You can eat the fertilized eggs, if you use them quickly.

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## wildWoman

I'd recommend making your set-up as predator-proof as possible, especially out in the country side, because sooner or later some critters are going to clue in that there's some rather stupid birds always hanging out in the same spot. And once they are successful and get a chicken or two, it's hard to get rid of them. I don't know what kind of predators there are where you are thinking of eventually locating to, but this is what I've learned the hard way:
-use small mesh hardwire cloth to close off any small gaps in the coop to keep ermines out
-have a fenced in run and cover the top with chickenwire to keep out owls and other birds of prey, and especially dogs
-the most problems I've had were with dogs. Listen politely to any visitors exclaiming their dog would never chase a chicken and then have them keep it on a leash or out in the car.

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## trax

[QUOTE=wildWoman;78817]...because sooner or later some critters are going to clue in that there's some rather stupid birds always hanging out in the same spot. And once they are successful and get a chicken or two, it's hard to get rid of them.... -the most problems I've had were with dogs.... QUOTE]

Fohtunately, Ah numbah my feathas foh just such an occassion.---_Foghorn Leghorn_

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## nell67

My chickens are free range during the day with the option of roosting in the barn,which most of them do,for now,and I have had no problems with predators,but then they also run with the goats which tend to keep most predators at bay for now. with winter coming on,that may change.

I am dabbling in the REAL stock market a little right now,buying chickens,goats,pigs,for a small amount and then selling them,for triple the money or more,nice little side income to that.

Roosters are good only for a wake up alarm,breeding,and a nice pot of chicken and dumplings.

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## RangerXanatos

Have you considered guinea fowl?  We used to have turkeys, chickens, and guinea fowl.  The guinea fowl were the smartest and lived the longest since they were smarter.  They were also very vocal about warning for predators.  Some of the ugliest birds though.  Just a thought...

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## nell67

They are VERY ugly,almost pre-historic looking,but they do make one heck of a warning system,and are hilarious to watch,they are great for cutting down the number of ticks on your property.

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## BraggSurvivor

> My chickens are free range during the day with the option of roosting in the barn,which most of them do,for now,and I have had no problems with predators,but then they also run with the goats which tend to keep most predators at bay for now. with winter coming on,that may change.
> 
> I am dabbling in the REAL stock market a little right now,buying chickens,goats,pigs,for a small amount and then selling them,for triple the money or more,nice little side income to that.
> 
> Roosters are good only for a wake up alarm,breeding,and a nice pot of chicken and dumplings.


My wife use to make gobs of money selling goat kids to the middle easterners when we were just starting out. (for some type of ceremony) Paid $250.00 for a 3 day old kid. They would buy up everyone we could produce. One of my Alpines dropped triplets every time. I got tired of them killing all my trees so we got rid of them.

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## Rick

Well good heavens. Alaska gets it from the ground and from the air. I sort of envision your chickens with little helmets and flak jackets gathered around a FLAK gun to ward off the eagles and trenches to keep the wolves and bears out. I'll bet chickens are chicken in AK!

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## flandersander

I've always wanted to raise chickens, but they stink too much so the wife won't let me. pigs, cows, ducks... "they all stink too much" (nag nag nag)

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## Rick

Keep it up, FL. At least she doesn't say you stink too much. :EEK!:

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## crashdive123

.....or does she? :Big Grin:

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## nell67

Raise rabbits,I have never heard anyone say rabbits stink,LOL .

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## nell67

chickens today :EEK!:  some that Tyson deemed too small to take to be processed when they picked up at a neighbors barns. Going to butcher some ,feed some for a few weeks then butcher and sell a few.

Getting them free,I like that price :Big Grin:

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## Rick

Trax, you've got quite the entrepreneur on your hands. Well, not on your hands, per se. You know what I mean.

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## crashdive123

Whew!  That's a whole lotta chickens.

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## nell67

> Whew! That's a whole lotta chickens.


You're telling me :EEK!:

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## wareagle69

ok hopeak said you can eat the fertilized eggs if you get to them quickley enough so how to tell ifn an egg is fertilized?
2nd yup i agree that goats help keep predators away my neighbor has goats and chicken which are free range and he has not lost a one, and we do have lots of preds wolves oats and weasels plus owls and hawks and turkey vultures

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## Sourdough

> ok hopeak said you can eat the fertilized eggs if you get to them quickley enough so how to tell ifn an egg is fertilized?
> vultures


The trick is to isolate the egg layers for consumption and have a separate area for roosters and brood chickens. BUT, if you can't, which we could not when I was a knee'high, what you do is never break a egg into cake mix or directly into frying pan. Every egg should be considered as likely a semi-developed chick. So you break the egg into a bowl first, and if iit s not developed it is just like any other egg for eating. Be warned that you could get a chick full developed ready to hatch in your cake mix. Which would gross out my mother. The other thing is get all the eggs every day. Don't wait till it is breakfast time and you have guests to go to the hen house and fetch eggs, fetch them daily and refrigerate them. We did not have a refrigerator so we had to put them in the spring house for refrigeration.

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## Rick

Depending on the breed, you might be able to see the developing embryo. Shine a strong flashlight "through" the egg and look at the silhouette on the opposite side. Even a 4-6 day embryo is visible. Called "candling", some egg shells are too thick to candle. If the egg is NOT fertilized you will have a nice round silhouette (the yolk). A fertilized egg will have a red thread coming out of the yolk. Oh yeah, a dark room helps.  

Otherwise, open them in another dish as Hopeak suggested.

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## klkak

Another good point about guinea fowl:  They will go out of their way to kill every snake they come across.  They are very efficient at it too.  That was the main reason one of my uncles let them go on his ranch.  In no time they brought the rattle snake population under control.  One of the funniest things I've every seen was about 30 guinea fowl chasing a fox out of the barn yard one morning.

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## nell67

I beLIEve it,the obnoxious little beasts,as ugly as they are,they are very good at pest control!

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## Rick

I had the pee waddin' scared out of me when I was a kid. I walked under a tree on my uncle's farm and three of those cretins were sitting on a limb. All three opened up when I walked under the tree and they nearly gave me a heart attack. Probably the fastest I've ever moved! All these years I've suspected they saw me coming and decided to pull a practical joke on me. 

Has anyone eaten Guinea Fowl?

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## Scott Richardson

We have chickens in the bush.
Our chickens range free in central B.C. with lots of preditors and we have never lost a chicken to them. We have two dogs.

Roosters do protect thier hens and can be aggressive towards you as well.
We always end up eating them.

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## nell67

I haven't,but have inquired of several who said they have,and it's like dark meat of the chicken?

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## Rick

I know you can eat both the bird and the eggs but I've never had either. At least not that I can remember.

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## klkak

You can eat both.  You'll need a hammer to crack the eggs though.

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## Rick

As I remember, the guinea eggs are smaller than a chicken's. Am I right?

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## Fletcher

Raising chickens is easy all you have to do is 
bend over grasp chicken now stand up. You have now raised a CHICKEN!

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## nell67

> Raising chickens is easy all you have to do is 
> bend over grasp chicken now stand up. You have now raised a CHICKEN!


Hey Fletch,never look a chicken in the eye when you have it raised.....

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## RBB

We had chickens when I was a kid.  Unless you can let them range - you are better off buying your eggs at the store.  If you have to buy feed, you soon pay for the price of the eggs.

Funny, the things you remember.  It takes 75 chickens to keep a hen house warm enough in the winter (at least where I live).  

For predators, we had the most trouble with weasels (ermine).  Seems like they can get into anything and they kill just for the love of it.  Other than weasels, most of our problems were with skunk and owls.  Sat up many nights with the .22.

My father was particularly adept at shooting skunks in the backbone so they wouldn't spray.  I'd try, but I never could do it as well as he could.

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## nell67

RBB,I range the chickens,but give them feed when the ground freezes and they cant scratch to find foodstuff.

For feed I,I glean the farmers feilds after the harvest,dry the corn,and have it ground and add vitamins and minerals,just took the first load of corn to be ground 1140 pounds plus the v&m cost just under $18,and have enough feed to feed the chickens,goats and pigs for about 2 months,I will be picking up more corn this week,with the "hurricane" that came through in September there was alot of blow down in the feilds,and the farmers equipment is not picking it all up,2 hours of picking up corn off the ground feeds for awhile and is well worth the time to pick it up.
plus,you control what is in the feed,I don't like the proccessed feeds that you can buy pre bagged,too many additives in them.

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## Sourdough

> RBB,I range the chickens,but give them feed when the ground freezes and they cant scratch to find foodstuff.
> 
> For feed I,I glean the farmers feilds after the harvest,dry the corn,and have it ground and add vitamins and minerals,just took the first load of corn to be ground 1140 pounds plus the v&m cost just under $18,and have enough feed to feed the chickens,goats and pigs for about 2 months,I will be picking up more corn this week,with the "hurricane" that came through in September there was alot of blow down in the feilds,and the farmers equipment is not picking it all up,2 hours of picking up corn off the ground feeds for awhile and is well worth the time to pick it up.
> plus,you control what is in the feed,I don't like the proccessed feeds that you can buy pre bagged,too many additives in them.



I had no Idea, there were women like you still alive. Somehow I can see a Nell's workout video around corn. Stoop-grab-drop in bag, stoop grab drop in bag, feel the burn. I always wondered why people "worked-out" after spending the whole day avoiding work.

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## nell67

> I had no Idea, there were women like you still alive. Somehow I can see a Nell's workout video around corn. Stoop-grab-drop in bag, stoop grab drop in bag, feel the burn. I always wondered why people "worked-out" after spending the whole day avoiding work.


LMAO!!!! Actually,I carry 2  five gallon buckets and fill them up,then carry then back to the trailer,still a nice little work out hopeak! I make a lot of trips back to the trailer :Big Grin:

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## Sourdough

Do you have a much, much, older sister......... :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:

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## nell67

Sorry hun,my oldest is 13 months older than I,and not nearly as energetic!

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## Sourdough

O'Well at least I have my 8 Labadoodle puppies.

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## Chris

> ok hopeak said you can eat the fertilized eggs if you get to them quickley enough so how to tell ifn an egg is fertilized?
> 2nd yup i agree that goats help keep predators away my neighbor has goats and chicken which are free range and he has not lost a one, and we do have lots of preds wolves oats and weasels plus owls and hawks and turkey vultures


USDA graders use a process called candling I believe, they're amazingly fast and efficient at it, ridiculously so if you've ever seen them do it. Basically, in a dark room, backlight the egg with a powerful flashlight or other isolated beam of light. You'll be able to see the inner contents of the shell.

http://www.geocities.com/heartland/b...1958/eggs.html
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/candling-eggs.php

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## Chris

> We had chickens when I was a kid.  Unless you can let them range - you are better off buying your eggs at the store.  If you have to buy feed, you soon pay for the price of the eggs.
> 
> Funny, the things you remember.  It takes 75 chickens to keep a hen house warm enough in the winter (at least where I live).  
> 
> For predators, we had the most trouble with weasels (ermine).  Seems like they can get into anything and they kill just for the love of it.  Other than weasels, most of our problems were with skunk and owls.  Sat up many nights with the .22.
> 
> My father was particularly adept at shooting skunks in the backbone so they wouldn't spray.  I'd try, but I never could do it as well as he could.


It isn't entirely about saving money, I realize that with most hobbies (Gardening etc) when you factor in the time, labor, and money that goes into it, you're really not saving money over store bought produce. 

It is more a lifestyle choice. You grow your own food because it can taste better, being fresher, because you can grow what you want, such as rare varieties, because you know what is going into it and how it is treated, because you want to be self sufficient, or, at least, partially self sufficient. 

And, you know, you could get creative with feed too. You could grow your own feed, or just save seeds from your garden and toss to the chickens, they don't just have to eat a homogenous corn mixture do they? I had 3 GIANT (and I mean giant) 18 inch sunflower heads I harvest a ton of seeds from... but they had been largely attacked by insects so I didn't eat them, I fed them to the squirrels, could have easily fed them to chickens.

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## RBB

> RBB,I range the chickens,but give them feed when the ground freezes and they cant scratch to find foodstuff.
> 
> For feed I,I glean the farmers feilds after the harvest,dry the corn,and have it ground and add vitamins and minerals,just took the first load of corn to be ground 1140 pounds plus the v&m cost just under $18,and have enough feed to feed the chickens,goats and pigs for about 2 months,I will be picking up more corn this week,with the "hurricane" that came through in September there was alot of blow down in the feilds,and the farmers equipment is not picking it all up,2 hours of picking up corn off the ground feeds for awhile and is well worth the time to pick it up.
> plus,you control what is in the feed,I don't like the proccessed feeds that you can buy pre bagged,too many additives in them.


Sounds like the way to do it.  Lot of work, but you don't spend tons for feed.

As mentioned by others - there's nothing like fresh eggs.  I recall breaking an egg into the fry pan and having the yoke stand up like a golf ball.  Now that's fresh!  The older the egg - the flatter the yoke.

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## Sourdough

> RBB,I range the chickens,but give them feed when the ground freezes and they cant scratch to find foodstuff.
> 
> For feed I,I glean the farmers feilds after the harvest,dry the corn,and have it ground and add vitamins and minerals,just took the first load of corn to be ground 1140 pounds plus the v&m cost just under $18,and have enough feed to feed the chickens,goats and pigs for about 2 months,I will be picking up more corn this week,with the "hurricane" that came through in September there was alot of blow down in the feilds,and the farmers equipment is not picking it all up,2 hours of picking up corn off the ground feeds for awhile and is well worth the time to pick it up.
> plus,you control what is in the feed,I don't like the proccessed feeds that you can buy pre bagged,too many additives in them.



Nell, I pay $33.90 per 100# for cracked corn. And poultry feed runs $44.00 per 100#, Straw $14.95 per 40# bale. No wonder people are begging someone to take there animals. A person could eat well just off craigs list.

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## nell67

> Sounds like the way to do it. Lot of work, but you don't spend tons for feed.
> 
> As mentioned by others - there's nothing like fresh eggs. I recall breaking an egg into the fry pan and having the yoke stand up like a golf ball. Now that's fresh! The older the egg - the flatter the yoke.


Yep, the fresher eggs,the white don't run either,you crack it into the pan,and it all stays there.

Once I boiled some eggs  for deviled eggs,the mother-out-law had gathered the eggs for me that day,when I cracked them to peel,I found out that she gathered the eggs from my sitting hens as well.....nasty, as they were just a few days from hatching :Frown:

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## nell67

> Nell, I pay $33.90 per 100# for cracked corn. And poultry feed runs $44.00 per 100#, Straw $14.95 per 40# bale. No wonder people are begging someone to take there animals. A person could eat well just off craigs list.


 
Here you can get cracked corn for $6.25- $9.49 a 50# bag,poultry feeds are $11.99 for 50# and straw up to $5.25 a 40 pound bale.

People are taking their horses to auction, if you have a trailer at these auctions,you had better be locking it up,because many people  have came back out of those auction with more horses IN their trailers than what they brought to sell :Confused:  and no,they didn't buy them,the owners didn't get bids, so they load them up into any trailer they find that isn't secured... :EEK!:

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## Sourdough

Anybody have any first hand experience with, Pearl-White Leghorns.....??????

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## Badawg

I have 3 laying hens and in my neighboorhood which is unincorporated county, but the edge of city I can keep up to 12. In the city it's 7. I range them in the yard and supplement with Purina laying pellets. a 40LBS bag is 11 bucks and lasts 2 months. I get 3 eggs a day, most days. or 18-21 a week. At 4 bucks a dozen around here, I am way ahead on feeding them. And they are so much better than store bought! Recently Raccoons attacked. Thy ripped the crap out of one of the ladies, but she survived it, and the Weiner dog treed the Raccoons... She stopped laying for a month, but is laying again now that she is healed up. I have been very happy with them eating all the bugs, but get a little pissed when they get in the seed beds... I say go get some, they are great to have. Forget about a rooster though, as they are a royal PITA.

Mine are two Auracanas(green eggs), and a barred rock. Orpingtons are great too, BTW.

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## Chris

> I have 3 laying hens and in my neighboorhood which is unincorporated county, but the edge of city I can keep up to 12. In the city it's 7. I range them in the yard and supplement with Purina laying pellets. a 40LBS bag is 11 bucks and lasts 2 months. I get 3 eggs a day, most days. or 18-21 a week. At 4 bucks a dozen around here, I am way ahead on feeding them. And they are so much better than store bought! Recently Raccoons attacked. Thy ripped the crap out of one of the ladies, but she survived it, and the Weiner dog treed the Raccoons... She stopped laying for a month, but is laying again now that she is healed up. I have been very happy with them eating all the bugs, but get a little pissed when they get in the seed beds... I say go get some, they are great to have. Forget about a rooster though, as they are a royal PITA.
> 
> Mine are two Auracanas(green eggs), and a barred rock. Orpingtons are great too, BTW.


What about neighborhood cats?

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## Sourdough

> What about neighborhood cats?


Chicken is better......... :Smile:  Yep. You knew that was coming. I can't leave a perfect set up line for Rick....... :Smile:

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## crashdive123

Yeah but that leaves the burning question......do the cats taste just like chicken?

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## A190

Been raising laying chickens now for 5 years.  No problems but I did build a very solid coop and run, complete with electric fence and  motion activated security lights.

The roos, I just cut their little roo sacs and they dont  act like roos no more.

I have some excellent  laying breeds, English Sussex, Barred Rock and Dominicer's.  I also have some silkies jsut cause they are cute and really stupid.
Plus a few mutts that I let hatch out...................

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## nell67

Silkies are cute,and excellent sitters,they will take over every egg they can get,and will hatch almost every one of them.

Kind of hilarious to watch the chickens get into the electric fence!

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## Chris

if you range your chickens are they smart enought o make it back to their coop at night? I assume so but you never know.

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## nell67

Yes,they go back into the barn at night,I don't have any problems with them roosting anywhere else.

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## A190

> if you range your chickens are they smart enough to make it back to their coop at night? I assume so but you never know.


Yes, once they have developed the habit  they will  go back to the coop at  dusk.  Basically  my internal coop light is on timer and comes on at dusk, they see the light and just kinda moosey on back to the coop.  All I have to do then is close the gate and reset the electric fence..........works like a champ

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## nell67

I don't have a light on in the barn,they just  wander back to the barn to roost at dusk.

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## A190

> I don't have a light on in the barn,they just  wander back to the barn to roost at dusk.


You have "Intelligent" chickens,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :Big Grin:

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## nell67

> You have "Intelligent" chickens,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Nah,they are "chicken" chickens,LOL . :Stick Out Tongue: 

But I do need to put a light on a timer in there for them though,as they have stopped laying due to the shorter days,chickens need 14 hours of light to lay eggs.

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## Badawg

My three put themselves away every night too. One night the door got shut somehow before dark and they really had a "fustercluck"!!!. Chickens are much smarter than people give them credit for. And they are quite tough customers. Our cats give 'em a wide birth and the neighbor cats give our Chow an even wider birth...

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## RunsWithDeer

We have a few chickens, just finished a new coop before snow set in.  I leave them in during the winter.  Spring, summer and fall we leave the coop open during the day and they wander.  They always come in at dusk and we close up the coop to keep the possum, fox and coons out. 
I leave a light on during the winter, they are still laying now.

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## Sourdough

You'all might find this interesting. It was -19F last night and looks like the high today will be -12F

Well the gooses and turkeys have no house. It has been nippy for four days and looks like it will cool off a'wee-bit over the next ten days.

I guess my point is they are a pretty rugged birds. And they eat the snow for water.

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## Beans

> I don't have a light on in the barn,they just wander back to the barn to roost at dusk.


We had a chicken coop and a range fence enclosure for the evening.  We would throw  several scoops of corn on the ground in the late afternoon. The ranging chicken would graviate toward the coop and by evening they were all roosting in the coop. One of my chores was to shut the coop door and the gate to the fenced area.

My second story bedroom  window looked over the coop.  A loaded Remington model 12 
.22 rifle was kept by the window, if needed. 

 IIRC the Collie normally kept everything under control.  The Collie was not a house dog he slept on an old rug in a wooden 50 gallon barrel on the enclosed back porch, Year around.  We also had a pet mallard duck and two geese that also kept watch.

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