# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Hunting & Trapping >  How do you lose the guilt of hunting?

## kaze

I'm a proficient fisherman and I want to get into hunting.  But one of the thing that holds me back is I have a strong sense of guilt when I kill a fury animal.  I don't get that with fish but with animals I do.  How do you ever lose it?  I know it's natural for humans to hunt other animals for food and crucial to our survival.  I would like to be a skilled hunter but can't seem to overcome that sense of guilt.  When I watch videos of other hunters making their kill, I can't help it but feel sad for the animal.  How do you guys overcame this feeling or do you guys not have that at all?

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## alaskabushman

There are several things to keep in mind when taking the life of an animal. Since you specifically mentioned hunting I'll use deer as an example. 

1) This animal will provide you and your family with healthy, quality meat that would have cost you much much more had you went to the supermarket and purchased it. Wild venison has been shown to be one of the healthiest red meats you can consume. Not only it it tasty but its sustainable and healthy. 

2) Hunters are actually critical to healthy animals. The USA has done a great job of game management, and because of this, there are actually far more deer now than there were in the early 20th century. By hunting you are not only supporting the healthy management of wild animals, but you are ensuring that future generations will have animals to hunt. 

3) You are partaking of your American heritage. By hunting, you are carrying on the tradition of our American forefathers who's lives depended on the meat they harvested. Many modern hunters don't actually need the meat, but you can be proud of carrying on a practice that is older than our country. 

4) You do get over it. When I first started trapping, killing the cute furry animals was a little hard at first, but I soon learned that by taking an animals life, I was actually learning more about nature. Hunting is the same way. When you get out in the woods, you learn about the animals habits and life-cycles. While field dressing you learn the animals anatomy. By taking care of the process from skinning to butchering you gain respect for the creature and the sacrifice it made for you. 

5) Making clean humane kills is easier. When you make a good clean kill the animal does not suffer. By taking reckless shots or lack of practice you injure an animal but do not kill it, that is harder. The animal may suffer for days or weeks before it dies (some do survive anyway), that to me is harder than a 1-shot kill where the animal drops in its tracks. Take care to practice and never take shots you are not 100% confident in. Killing an animal is much easier than wounding one or maiming it for life. 

6) Hunting is not for everyone. Some people just don't ever get into hunting. My dad is a good example, he does hunt on occasion, but he has only ever killed one deer. He just does not enjoy it. He has no issue with other people doing it, and he is always grateful for the venison me and my sister give him, but he is not that keen on killing animals personally. His dad was not much of a hunter, so he grew up without ever gaining the love for it. I grew up with the desire (growing up in Alaska, hunting is kind of required activity), but with a dad who was not a hunter, so I learned by trial and error, and occasionally going out with people who _were_ hunters. 

7) All animals we eat have to die. There are people who protest hunting as "inhumane" while chowing down on a cheeseburger. These people are so out of touch with reality they don't understand that every animal raised for food has a much tougher life than deer do. Food animals never have a chance, never have a life of freedom. Deer are free to roam where they choose, and only a few actually get harvested for food. The vast majority live the life any deer could ever want. Don't get me wrong I eat my fair share of bacon without losing sleep over it. 

8) Buck fever. When you invest so much time and money into an activity, you get excited when you acquire results. In those hunting videos you mentioned, they never show the deer a hunter passed up (or possibly missed) in order to get "the one". I know how excited I get after many hours in the woods, often cold and wet, up at 4am, just for the slight chance at a deer. When the planets align and that shot connects and you have a good looking buck on the ground, you can't help but feel a sense of pride and accomplishment. 

Don't know if this really helps or not, maybe you can glean something from it. Keep trying, maybe you'll discover that hunting just isn't for you, but I hope you can push through the preconceived ideas that modern culture tried for force feed us, maybe you'll discover that hunting is more than just "killing".

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## kaze

Thanks for the response Alaska. It certainly helps.  I know modern society has painted a bad image of hunting when in reality it's the most humane  and honest way to acquire meat and the animals out in the wild do live better lives than the factory raised animals that spend most of it in cages.  That's why I want to get into hunting so I can get meat the honest way and not contribute to the enslavement of animals in factory farms.

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## hunter63

Albushman....
Excellent post...Could not have said it better.
Tried to rep ya...I need to spread it around.

Just wanted to add...
Nothing wrong with the feeling of guilt...That's some what normal.....
I believe you would be less of a human if you didn't have any feelings.....of feel respect for any animal.

That said...
I look at it as a job....wild farming as it were.
My goal is to do a good job in gathering meat....with the least amount of fuss as possible.
If I not gonna eat it I don't try to shoot it....except vermin...(different story)

I decide IF I going to hunt.....then what I going to hunt, then the best way to complete the task.
Cleanly and efficiently.....with the proper preparation, tools and hard work scouting, and spending time. 

Becomes all automatic....
Find target, bring rifle (or what ever) track, locate in sights.....make my decision "shoot/not shoot"...based on what where, makeable shot percentage....bang...don't feel it or even hear it....look for the signs of kill.
Then the work begins...of processing it.

I have passed up large racked bucks, just seeing one and him not seeing me is a win......but he will make large rack fawns...to take a smaller spike...that will always be a spike...removed for gene pool.

Not for everyone....but there would a lot less obese people if they had to gather and process their food. 

The older I get...the "The Kill" looses it importance.
Then I'm asked..."See anything?....."
Yup.. Bigazz buck...."
"Did you get it?"
"Nope"...
What did you do.... miss?...LOL"
"Nope, didn't shoot....just didn't feel like it today....maybe if he tempts me again.... I'll pull the trigger....maybe not"
.
We both got older by not being stupid...and good luck.

"Lets  get a burger and a beer.....and tell lies"

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## 1stimestar

Get hungry...

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## kyratshooter

Look at it this way Kaze.

So far you have been walking around in the woods looking at the animals that stand there all moon eyed or even walk right up and eat out of your hand and you worry about how bad you will feel to hurt one of the little critters.

Don't worry about it!  As soon as you buy a rifle, a hunting license, rent a hunting lease and get up at 3am and out in the woods for daylight you will never see another live critter until hunting season is over. 

That's why they call it hunting.

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## hunter63

> Look at it this way Kaze.
> 
> So far you have been walking around in the woods looking at the animals that stand there all moon eyed or even walk right up and eat out of your hand and you worry about how bad you will feel to hurt one of the little critters.
> 
> Don't worry about it!  As soon as you buy a rifle, a hunting license, rent a hunting lease and get up at 3am and out in the woods for daylight you will never see another live critter until hunting season is over. 
> 
> That's why they call it hunting.


Hunting is different than shooting......
There is a lot truth to that....You forgot the "freezing tushy and being soaked.......
Sit out there for 3 days....0 degrees....finally see a deer...,try to pull hammed back....froze....Wave Bye....

4 of us in a duck blind...October, pouring rain, 45 degrees....foggy, can't see ducks till they pass over you....Stanley Thermos cups over the muzzle of the 870 and 1100's sitting the front rack... to keep the rain out of the barrel..... 
Danny yells out over the lake....."IT DON"T GET NO BETTER THAN THIS!!!!....

Then we beat him with our hats.................

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## natertot

I don't feel guilty, but I believe in ethical hunting. Buy licenses, follow laws, make ethical shots, etc. To me, I feel more guilty buying meat at the store. Those animals are born to be slaughtered the moment they weigh enough to become profitable with zero chance of surviving. At least wild animals live a free whole life and more often than not, survive an encounter with me when I am hunting.

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## Walking Bear 1954

Respect the animal never shoot beyond your limits, never shoot an animal with young.  After the kill I thank the animal for giving its life and use as much of it as possible.  I hunt not sit on a hill with a custom rifle and scope to KILL at 1000 yards that in my opinion is not hunting.  I too have passed on animals my wife says hunting is an excuse to be in the woods, maybe she's right

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## oldsoldier

> I have passed up large racked bucks, just seeing one and him not seeing me is a win......but he will make large rack fawns...to take a smaller spike...that will always be a spike...removed for gene pool."


I've never been a trophy or big racked deer hunter. I can't count the number of times I've passed on a kill on a trophy buck and waited for a doe. Meat is less gamey, more tender. But that's just me. As to the OP I guess it's all in how you're raised as well. I was raised hunting as a way to supliment our diet, It was neccisary as a way to keep regular meat on our table.

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## kyratshooter

Yep, locally steak is selling for $12 a pound.  Roasts run $7 a pound and ground beef is $3.50 a pound.  

A 100 pound doe that will dress out to 40-60 pounds of ground meat is $200 of meat loaf and chili, 1 pound of meat daily for 2 months or more.

That flash of guilt feed your crew for 60 days.

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## crashdive123

> Yep, locally steak is selling for $12 a pound.  Roasts run $7 a pound and ground beef is $3.50 a pound.  
> 
> A 100 pound doe that will dress out to 40-60 pounds of ground meat is $200 of meat loaf and chili, 1 pound of meat daily for 2 months or more.
> 
> That flash of guilt feed your crew for 60 days.


You forgot $40,000 for the new hunting vehicle, $1000 for the new rifle, $700 for the new scope, $200 for the latest camo, $300 in supplies to enjoy the camp.........and on and on.

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## alaskabushman

> You forgot $40,000 for the new hunting vehicle, $1000 for the new rifle, $700 for the new scope, $200 for the latest camo, $300 in supplies to enjoy the camp.........and on and on.


for me its the $3,000 truck, $400 rifle, $200 scope the flannel and wool I already own and the $100 worth of supplies I already keep in the truck....

Anyone else notice how Hollywood portrays hunters? I've seen more than one instance during a murder mystery show where the culprit is caught because he was a hunter. The "evidence" used against the murderer is the fact he is an avid hunter, therefore it perfectly capable of killing a human in cold blood. Makes me sick when I see representations like that. As if killing animals and humans were the same thing. Not even close. 
I think thats partly why there is even "shame" in the first place. Average non-hunters pick up on the subliminal message that "all hunters are brutal killers who would hunt their fellow man if given the opportunity". Apparently we just wander around the woods shooting anything that breathes. Disgusting.

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## Batch

No matter how humane a hunter, you are going to come across animals that are still alive and struggling to stay that way. It is going to be your job to finish the job even while looking in their eyes. 

Hunting affects everyone differently. Each hunt can have an affect on you that changes your view. There is no warm and fuzzy kill. Most good kills include an animal dealing with the termination of its life for at least a brief period of time. Accepting that allows you to focus on being as humane as possible.

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## kyratshooter

> You forgot $40,000 for the new hunting vehicle, $1000 for the new rifle, $700 for the new scope, $200 for the latest camo, $300 in supplies to enjoy the camp.........and on and on.


That don't count, I was going to buy that anyway!

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## Curley

I am a meat hunter. When I was young I would shoot birds and squirrels with a pellet rifle to see if I could. But after I killed my first deer at twelve years old, I had a change come over me and from that point until now I will not shoot anything that I don't plan to eat. I instilled that in my children as well. I am not a big turkey hunter because I don't know really care to eat turkey even though I have experienced the challenge and thrill of it, I just don't eat it so I don't hunt it.

Native Americans knew the value of every animal God blessed them with and used every bit of every animal they killed down to making tools from bones. They also had enormous respect for their prey and every kill was an emotional and spiritual event for them. 

Hunting IS NOT a sport. Hunting is a means of providing food for my family. But Kaze if you are thinking of getting into hunting just to get into hunting and not for the purpose for providing meat, then you will likely feel guilt.

With that said, I want to be clear that I am not hating on those who only trophy hunt although I do get a little miffed at those who only want the trophy and don't care about the meat. I too have passed on bucks to kill does before although as a rule I view them all as meat for the freezer. At the same time I don't have the desire to kill more than I can eat season to season. Here in Alabama you can legally kill 123 per season over most of the state and I know people who kill 10 or 12 and end up giving away over half of them.

Bottom line I don't feel guilt as much as an overwhelming sense of spiritual connection with my harvest. An appreciation for the kill and gratitude to God for allowing me to.

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## WalkingTree

Not to say anything either way about 'guilt', just a sidenote on something this makes me think of - I am for being responsible, humane, and reverent. But it never made sense to "thank" the animal for "giving" itself so that I can eat. It didn't give itself. Instead, I'd rather take a moment to say something about respecting and honoring the creature as the being that it is (was), and thanking the universe on it's behalf that it had a chance to live a life in the first place, and that I take it's life for myself with respect for it instead of indifference or disdain. Kind of holding a quick memorial to the life that it lived and the being that it was.

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## hunter63

Prices 1990.
10 acres of land 10K
Used 4X4 truck...10K
Used pop-up camper...2K
New shot guns, camo, calls, boots, 1K..
Total, $23K
add $500 for food saloon fuel beer, restaurants
Total...$23.5

Turkey 23.5 pounds....so $1000 per pound.

Feeding 15 people at Rondy.... turkey and capon on the spit....
Priceless....

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## kyratshooter

Then there was the time I was feeding the stock and a deer jumped onto the hay wagon for its customary free meal.  I shot it with my .357 and it went down and never fell off the wagon.

Back home for a quick cleaning and rough butcher job and the whole thing went down the road to the family whose breadwinner had been out of work for a couple of months, no fault of his own.

I never lost any sleep over that one either.

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## alaskabushman

> Then there was the time I was feeding the stock and a deer jumped onto the hay wagon for its customary free meal.  I shot it with my .357 and it went down and never fell off the wagon.


Wow, now that's hunting! 

I chased a deer off the road a few years back, went maybe 75' and got a good shot. The deer turned and took off back towards the road. It died in the ditch about 6' from my truck...

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## finallyME

I was telling a co-worker that I had 4 meat chickens ready to harvest.  She was horrified and told me that I should not kill them, but go to the store and buy my chicken meat there.  I asked her what the difference was?  If I buy meat at the store, I am essentially just paying someone else to kill the animal.  It doesn't matter if you are paying someone else to do it, or you do it yourself, you are still the one killing the animals.  So, the real question is, do you feel guilt when you eat a burger, or chicken sandwich?

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## alaskabushman

Exactly. I've been told by anti-hunters, "you don't *have* to kill that poor animal, you can go to the store and buy all the meat you need there!" 
I said "do you know where that meat comes from? Those animals have to be killed too!" They are so out of touch with reality. 

Besides, I'm poor. Hunting gives me more meat than I could ever hope to buy.  

It's odd how most people don't have a problem with fishing. Even anti-hunters don't usually get worked up too much about killing a fish.

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## hunter63

This subject is one of those, where everyone has their opinion and beliefs.
I have only changed my opinion of belief once, that I can recall.... on subjects like this.

That was the value of a $80 buck Mosin Nagant....proper tool for that job, old, loose long and heavy....( I missed the fun part, so changed my mind.
That's pretty much it.

The only time guilt had anything to do with hunting and killing animals... was an incident that occurred having to do with a pair of squirrels.

I was deer hunting...carrying a .44 mag Carbine.

The pair were "mating" on the side of a tree......really going to it.

Figured I could blast both with one shot.....

As I was sighting them in the scope....a putting the crosshairs on his butt...the thought crossed my mind.....
This little guy has chased this female for a while, and chased off other suitors, ....and finally gets to "seal the deal".

Then some a-whole comes along and sends both to squirrelly heaven....just at "that" moment.

Couldn't do it....and as the says goes.........They lived happily ever after in squirrel fashion.

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## Graf

I have no guilt from hunting, because I only kill for food or threat. When I kill animals for food I use as much as possible leave the rest for for other animals. Always follow this rule only take what I need, and need what I take.

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## Antonyraison

I am not a hunter, only killed because I had to eat when out in the bush(then I only took what I needed small game, rabbits, fish,crabs,bugs,scorpions,birds,etc..as anything larger for me would have been a waste for a few days)... I do not condone trophy hunters one bit nor poachers.
However Hunters on the other Hand that hunt to eat and feed their family these guys I have the greatest respect for, I actually feel (and maybe I am wrong) they actually value and care more about animal welfare than the meat industry.  Food for thought?

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## hunter63

> I am not a hunter, only killed because I had to eat when out in the bush(then I only took what I needed small game, rabbits, fish,crabs,bugs,scorpions,birds,etc..as anything larger for me would have been a waste for a few days)... I do not condone trophy hunters one bit nor poachers.
> However Hunters on the other Hand that hunt to eat and feed their family these guys I have the greatest respect for, I actually feel (and maybe I am wrong) they actually value and care more about animal welfare than the meat industry.  Food for thought?


Doesn't have to be food for thought...that is true
.
We have many organization that solicit funding for protection of habit and fair laws to preserve the game population for the future.
Our state DNR Department of Natural Resources uses Our licence and permit money for forest/game management, wardens and research on disease control and water management. 

Unless I'm missing something....You don't see PITA "supporting" the management and habitat....just are "against" hunting. 

I have been involved in Ducks Unlimited for 30 plus years....95% ofall the money we make from events,... dinners and raffles,...goes to purchase and preservation of waterfowl habitat.
There are many others..Wildlife Federations, Turkey Federation, Whitetails Forever, Pheasants Forever...and many, many more....are made up of hunters and sportsman......the work to conserve wildlife.

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## finallyME

> Doesn't have to be food for thought...that is true
> .
> We have many organization that solicit funding for protection of habit and fair laws to preserve the game population for the future.
> Our state DNR Department of Natural Resources uses Our licence and permit money for forest/game management, wardens and research on disease control and water management. 
> 
> Unless I'm missing something....You don't see PITA "supporting" the management and habitat....just are "against" hunting. 
> 
> I have been involved in Ducks Unlimited for 30 plus years....95% ofall the money we make from events,... dinners and raffles,...goes to purchase and preservation of waterfowl habitat.
> There are many others..Wildlife Federations, Turkey Federation, Whitetails Forever, Pheasants Forever...and many, many more....are made up of hunters and sportsman......the work to conserve wildlife.


Plus you made the point that the wildlife population would be worse off without regulated hunting.  

Many backpacker and hikers complain about horse back riders.  But, guess who does the most free trail conservation projects?  Guess who carries the most trash out of wilderness areas?

I like to refer to PETA as UPETA, or "Unethical People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals".  They are so hypocritical.... better stop now...

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## alaskabushman

> I am not a hunter, only killed because I had to eat when out in the bush(then I only took what I needed small game, rabbits, fish,crabs,bugs,scorpions,birds,etc..as anything larger for me would have been a waste for a few days)... I do not condone trophy hunters one bit nor poachers.
> However Hunters on the other Hand that hunt to eat and feed their family these guys I have the greatest respect for, I actually feel (and maybe I am wrong) they actually value and care more about animal welfare than the meat industry.  Food for thought?


I find that I actually love and respect animals more _because_ I am a hunter. Hunting requires a great deal of patience and understanding about the animal you are hunting. Being out in the woods in their territory helps you to get a glimpse of what their life is like. 
Liberals think that because I am a hunter I must see any and every animal as a kill opportunity and that my blood lust is great. The opposite is true. Any animal I encounter that is hurt or in bad shape I am more than eager to help it and see it survive. 
An example is last spring while on a drive to town I saw a baby martin curled up along the road. I stopped and walked up to it, it sat there and looked at me. A red smear on the road suggested that its mama had been killed. Was my first response to stomp it into oblivion? (as anti-hunters would have us believe) No, I took it home took care of it, and eventually gave it to a local trapper who has killed hundreds of marten. Did he kill it? Nope, he still has is and keeps it as a pet. He loves that thing. He still traps, he does not hate animals.

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## aflineman

I hunt because I enjoy being out in the woods hunting. I kill an animal because I enjoy eating. I can't say I feel guilty about it. I do feel bad if an animal gets away. Does not happen very often, but has happened a couple of times with birds. Those I do feel disappointment in myself about. I ask what I could have done different/better so the animal would not suffer.

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## Phaedrus

I pondered for a good while whether or not to reply here, but in the end I decided to chime in.  When I was a kid my brother and I would take out our BB guns, then .22s and shotguns when we got older, and blast anything we could find.  We hunted frogs which Mom would cook up, be shot rabbits, birds, porcupines, skunks, etc.  My brother especially probably killed more magpies and songbirds than a thousand feral cats could kill in a thousand years.  I hunted with my dad from the time I was old enough to walk and when I was big enough to take my Hunter's Safety Course to get my own license I did.  From the age of maybe ten up til I was in my early twenties I hunted quite a bit.  But by the time I turned 20 I lost my taste for killing animals.  As a kid there was a tremendous rush from the actual hunt and taking the shot.  But eventually I got to where I didn't like to kill thing.

Don't get me wrong- I am 100% in favor of hunting.  It's natural, it's a normal activity for an apex predator like a human, and since we killed off most of the other apex predators it's important that humans assume their role to manage prey populations.  And I am 100% not a vegetarian!  If something with a face didn't die for my meal then it's just a snack.  I just don't enjoy killing the animal.  Which doesn't strike me as too odd.  After all, I like having clean laundry and clean dishes but I don't really like doing either.  

I guess I have to wonder why the OP wants to become a hunter if he doesn't like to kill, either?  It does make sense to know the skills but if you don't like doing something I see no big reason to try to force yourself to learn to like it.

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## Antonyraison

> I find that I actually love and respect animals more _because_ I am a hunter. Hunting requires a great deal of patience and understanding about the animal you are hunting. Being out in the woods in their territory helps you to get a glimpse of what their life is like. 
> Liberals think that because I am a hunter I must see any and every animal as a kill opportunity and that my blood lust is great. The opposite is true. Any animal I encounter that is hurt or in bad shape I am more than eager to help it and see it survive. 
> An example is last spring while on a drive to town I saw a baby martin curled up along the road. I stopped and walked up to it, it sat there and looked at me. A red smear on the road suggested that its mama had been killed. Was my first response to stomp it into oblivion? (as anti-hunters would have us believe) No, I took it home took care of it, and eventually gave it to a local trapper who has killed hundreds of marten. Did he kill it? Nope, he still has is and keeps it as a pet. He loves that thing. He still traps, he does not hate animals.


<3 and this is exactly why I have respect for "Hunters" they understand how nature works and have a great love and respect for living things.

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## Rick

How do you loose the guilt of eating meat? Oh, I know. More hot sauce. Never mind.

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## 1stimestar

When you go from having to get food boxes from the food bank in order to feed your kids, to having to buy a second freezer to keep your meat, you get over any "Bambi feelings" pretty darn quick.

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## kyratshooter

As I stated in a previous post, the title of this thread is disturbing because GUILT implies that one is doing something wrong and instantly places the reply as a defense of the wrong that has taken place.

Hunting is not wrong.  There is no guilt to overcome unless we allow a manipulative mind to place that guilt on us with a statement that is a magnificent example of lawyer-speak equal to "do you still beat your wife?"

Hunting is legal.
Hunting in many states is considered a RIGHT of the citizen and protected from harassment, except on outdoor forums.
Hunting supports research and management of wildlife and in most states license fees are the only funds allocated for that activity.

No licensed hunter taking game in accordance to legal rules of fair chase has a reason to prove their innocence to anyone and no one has the right to ask a question framed in this manner.

My opinion is that this thread should be locked down due to irrelevance.

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## hunter63

I agree...opinions are not going to change....

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## alaskabushman

> My opinion is that this thread should be locked down due to irrelevance.


I agree as well. Lets move on to something new.

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## crashdive123

No need to close the thread.  Just let it die from inactivity if that is the general feeling.

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## Phaedrus

I can't see why people can't comprehend why one would feel guilt from killing another creature.  If on no other level any intelligent, compassionate person should be able to understand it at least as thought experiment.  And those that can't imagine it, try to imagine this- you step on your dog in the middle of the night and she yelps and scrambles off with her tail between her legs.  Would you feel bad at all?  Or what if you had to put down a horse you'd had for many years or a dog you raised from a pup?  There's really no difference between shooting a deer and shooting your dog except in your own mind.  Yet most people would readily do the former and recoil from the latter.

Again, this doesn't mean there's anything wrong with hunting.  It just means that some people are wired to feel empathy for more creatures than you are.  It's not good or bad, it just _is._

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## kyratshooter

We comprehend it and understand the squeamishness fully.

If you do not want to hunt but still eat your steaks rare that is your business, just don't try to justify it with some philosophical BS which is not even the point of the thread.

The point of the thread is that no one has the right to ask the question, "How do you overcome the guilt of hunting?".

If someone were to approach me at the tailgate of my pickup on opening day of deer season and ask me "How do you lose the guilt of hunting?" I could have them arrested for hunter harassment, imprisoned for 90 days or fined $250.

But here it is supposed to be OK.

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## Seniorman

I grew up hunting and fishing.  I've never felt any guilt at all for killing animals, birds, fish, and putting them in the freezer and on the table.  I no longer hunt, not because of "guilt" but because spinal, hip and arthritis problems preclude it.  I can still get up into the mountains to enjoy the "great outdoors," but my "killing days" are over.  Happens to a lot of us as we age.   :Yes: 

S.M.

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## crashdive123

Oh, I don't think there is anything wrong with the question, especially from somebody who has not hunted.  They may confuse the respect that hunters have for the animals for guilt.  They would be incorrect in that assumption, but hey - you don't know if you don't ask.

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## Phaedrus

> We comprehend it and understand the squeamishness fully.
> 
> If you do not want to hunt but still eat your steaks rare that is your business, just don't try to justify it with some philosophical BS which is not even the point of the thread.
> 
> The point of the thread is that no one has the right to ask the question, "How do you overcome the guilt of hunting?".
> 
> If someone were to approach me at the tailgate of my pickup on opening day of deer season and ask me "How do you lose the guilt of hunting?" I could have them arrested for hunter harassment, imprisoned for 90 days or fined $250.
> 
> But here it is supposed to be OK.


Well, except that no one came up to your tailgait to harass you- you came up to _his_ tailgait, remember?  If you're offended by the topic and don't think it should be discussed then why not follow your own advice and stop discussing it?  I won't even call for your arrest. :Devil2:

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## kaze

> Don't get me wrong- I am 100% in favor of hunting.  It's natural, it's a normal activity for an apex predator like a human, and since we killed off most of the other apex predators it's important that humans assume their role to manage prey populations.  And I am 100% not a vegetarian!  If something with a face didn't die for my meal then it's just a snack.  I just don't enjoy killing the animal.  Which doesn't strike me as too odd.  After all, I like having clean laundry and clean dishes but I don't really like doing either.  
> 
> I guess I have to wonder why the OP wants to become a hunter if he doesn't like to kill, either?  It does make sense to know the skills but if you don't like doing something I see no big reason to try to force yourself to learn to like it.


That's a good question.  The reason why I want to learn to hunt is because I like to eat meat and I felt hunting is the most natural way to go acquire it.  Like you said, you like clean dishes but you don' like to do dishes but you still need to do them.  It's just the way things should be and it's part of life and I think hunting will teach me more about life and the natural world.  It's sorta the same reasons why parents send their boys to boycotts, it's to help them grow to become better individuals.  I always felt nature/wilderness has a lot of wisdom to teach us and hunting is part of nature.

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## crashdive123

> That's a good question. .......It's sorta the same reasons why parents send their boys to boycotts, it's to help them grow to become better individuals......


Could you please explain that statement?

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## hunter63

Hummm seen thing were kinda winding down...so lets wind it up again?

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## kyratshooter

Anyone want to go in on a group hog hunt?

One of my friends down in TN found a ranch in Texas that will put you up and feed you for up to a week.  No limits, just shoot until you run out of ammo and eat all the BBQ you can hold. 

He took a group down and they really enjoyed it.

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## kaze

> Could you please explain that statement?


It helps them develop self-confidence, self-reliance, and independence at an early age.

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## finallyME

> Could you please explain that statement?


I bet he autocorrected boyscouts to boycotts.

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## hunter63

I don't know....we have plenty of people that drag their kids to "Bucket Brigade" events....

Beat on a 5 gal bucket with a stick...and chant "Hey, hey, ho, ho _(insert here_ )has got to go......

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## crashdive123

> It helps them develop self-confidence, self-reliance, and independence at an early age.


By being sent to boycotts? Or is it as FM suspects and you meant Boy Scouts.

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## Rick

All I know is it's a whole lot easier to lose the guilt of hunting than it is 20 lbs. I can't walk past the bakery at Krogers without gaining 8 pounds. I walk past the meat counter and I'm fine. Ain't right.

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## madmax

I just went on a bisquits and gravy kick.  I think I need elastic waistband pants and suspenders.

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## Rick

I'm lucky. I have elastic hongs. I just have trouble finding them sometimes.

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## crashdive123

> I just went on a bisquits and gravy kick.  I think I need elastic waistband pants and suspenders.


Maybe we can get Greg to make biscuits and gravy at our camp next month.

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## madmax

> Maybe we can get Greg to make biscuits and gravy at our camp next month.



Shoot.  I'll do a big DO of sausage gravy if he would do the bisquits.  We did that at a camp in GA and there wasn't a crumb left.

To tie into the thread it would be nice to have some wild hog sausage.  Terrible blight on the south, but I don't have any landowner friends with hogs (Not that they are complaining).  Kelly went land hunting Sun in the Forest.  I accused her of starting the fire out there.

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## kaze

> By being sent to boycotts? Or is it as FM suspects and you meant Boy Scouts.


Yup, meant Boy Scouts.

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## DSJohnson

> Anyone want to go in on a group hog hunt?
> 
> One of my friends down in TN found a ranch in Texas that will put you up and feed you for up to a week.  No limits, just shoot until you run out of ammo and eat all the BBQ you can hold. 
> 
> He took a group down and they really enjoyed it.


Sure!!!  How much and when?

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## DSJohnson

> I just went on a bisquits and gravy kick.  I think I need elastic waistband pants and suspenders.


Me I LOVE  "Chipped beef on toast"  I never get tired of it.

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## DSJohnson

> I'm lucky. I have elastic hongs. I just have trouble finding them sometimes.


Why do you punish us like that?

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## DSJohnson

Okay so back to the OP.  I have read all the replies and comments. (elastic hongs, really, i mean how do we get...never mind I know how we get there.) My father started taking me with him hunting (Some would call it subsistence hunting, in other words, whatever we kill today we have for supper tomorrow) when I was very young.  Like maybe 2 or 3 years old I bet, probably serving two big purposes. The first one being that my folks had 3 kids in 3 years.  So I bet he was giving my mom a break by taking me with him  Second I have very clear and vivid memories of him explaining and showing me how to field dress game, how to care for the hide if we were going to use it or sell it, how important respecting private property is/was, how to cross a fence with firearms, how to "still hunt", how to "bark, chirp" to squirrels to get them to show themselves.  So in his mind he was fulfilling his duties and responsibility as a father and mentor to his son.  My father was born in 1911 and raised in the south.  He was very much a product of his time and environment.  He clearly had a double standard for men and women.  Men worked/provided for the family, women took care of the home and the children and he was pretty unapologetic for his beliefs and views.  He fought in two wars, worked hard all of his life and loved his family (and his country) unconditionally.  I never felt anything but pride that I was helping feed the family.  I have never been casual about killing anything but I have never, ever felt guilty.  Even today when I have to put down an animal or kill feral dogs who are terrorizing and attacking my horses. I still hunt and I have taught both my daughter and my son how to hunt and have help teach 9 grandchildren and now two great grand daughters how to hunt, dress, prepare and cook game.  I love and have loved animals all my life but I have never humanized them at all.  I used to have a Jack Russell that slept in my bed and followed my every step even to school.  I just lost my little riding mule Ruby that I was partners with for 20 plus years and I cried like a little child as I was "putting her down" (that is a nice way of saying that I held her head in my lap and very carefully shot her) after she had a massive stroke.  She was somewhere around 35 to 38 years old and had carried my fat butt all over the Rocky mountains, the Santa Fe Trail, Lewis and Clark's path up in Montana, Idaho and Washington.  I truly miss her every time I go and and feed my other mules and horses.  I say that to make sure you understand that I know animals as friends and companions.  No guilt when I kill one.  Now as to have to "deal with/overcome/address my(your) guilt when you kill an animal.  I would say, based on your very thoughtful reply to Phaedrus, that you should constantly reaffirm to yourself why you are choosing to hunt, why it is important and also evaluate the guilt versus the gain after you are successful on a hunt.  Watching your family be blessed and benefit from the "bounty of your hunt" is extremely gratifying for most of us.

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## BENESSE

The way to loose the guilt of hunting is not to acquire it in the first place. Obviously you have love and empathy for animals or you wouldn't be questioning your feelings. I can relate.

There's nothing wrong with_ not_ hunting if your life doesn't depend on it. (If it does, that's an entirely different story...cross that bridge when you come to it) You can be a good shot, feel close to nature and acquire tons of outdoorsy skills without killing animals. You can also survive and thrive without eating meat and learning about plants, insects and grubs would be a useful thing for anyone--meat eater or not.

I happen to be a vegetarian (eat seafood not meat) because I care about animals and can't wrap my mind around killing them if I am not forced to. (health reasons are a lesser consideration, but a darn good consequence) 

I respect those who feel differently, everyone is entitled to do what they think is right for them.

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## hunter63

> The way to loose the guilt of hunting is not to acquire it in the first place. Obviously you have love and empathy for animals or you wouldn't be questioning your feelings. I can relate.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with_ not_ hunting if your life doesn't depend on it. (If it does, that's an entirely different story...cross that bridge when you come to it) You can be a good shot, feel close to nature and acquire tons of outdoorsy skills without killing animals. You can also survive and thrive without eating meat and learning about plants, insects and grubs would be a useful thing for anyone--meat eater or not.
> 
> I happen to be a vegetarian (eat seafood not meat) because I care about animals and can't wrap my mind around killing them if I am not forced to. (health reasons are a lesser consideration, but a darn good consequence) 
> 
> I respect those who feel differently, everyone is entitled to do what they think is right for them.


Well said.......
The decision to hunt or not is not a daily survival requirement.......

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## WalkingTree

I feel guilty when I eat French fries. That poor potato plant.

But not so much if I have mustard.

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## incide

I feel guilty when I break a $100 bill. Should have saved it.

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## BENESSE

> I feel guilty when I break a $100 bill. Should have saved it.


Yes you should.
A money saved is a money earned.  :Whistling:

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## Rick

Now that is a pretty catchy phrase. A regular Benesse Franklin.

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## hunter63

Yeah, well...
Used to be a $100 dollar bill WAS money.....there seems to be a new money......a "hunert bucks"...that gets broke all the time.

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## Durtyoleman

How do I lose the guilt of hunting?

BBQ sauce.

----------


## Old Professor

I cant help with your gilt trip when you kill an animal. I never had any guilt trips about killing animals (except when putting down a beloved dog. I was raised poor and road kill and the chickens we raised for eggs were my introduction to how life works and where my dinners came from. Not critiizing you, just pointing out how and why my ethics were formed. My sister and I were not allowed to make pets of the chickens. Now, my grand daughters willingly help kill, clean and can chickens and all three have taken at least one deer (ages 12 & 14).They also help can fruits and vegetables and fish. And they prefer meat we kill and fish we catch and garden produce we can, to store bought foods.

----------


## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I read somewhere that we have dominion over the whole place and that we can use them all for food or whatever except one tree.  

We are animals.  We eat or we die.  Philosophy about the nature of the universe and playing nice and all that rot is for after the meal has been eaten, the dishes washed, and someone has laid in a good stock of wood for the campfire.  

Kill the animal you're hunting as quickly and humanely as possible (Nature does not hardly EVER do that) and don't waste the meat or hide if you need it.  

I don't scrape every trace of meat from the bones but I clean them pretty good.  When I've got a bunch of boys in camp I throw the boned out bones on the big grill and let them do the cave man thing.  

Alan

----------


## Manwithnoname

Wow, this is one of the best threads I think I've seen here. I've seen a ton of great answers and can honestly relate a bit to most of them. For myself, I hunt nothing I don't plan on eating and im not interested in trophy's.  Years ago I had a friend I hunted with until it became obvious his joy of the hunt was in the kill. To him a hunt was a failure unless you got your limit. Once I figured this out about him I never hunted with him again, or anything else for that matter. I never measure the success of a hunt by the kill. Some of my best most memorable hunts I never even popped a cap.

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## hunter63

> Wow, this is one of the best threads I think I've seen here. I've seen a ton of great answers and can honestly relate a bit to most of them. For myself, I hunt nothing I don't plan on eating and im not interested in trophy's.  Years ago I had a friend I hunted with until it became obvious his joy of the hunt was in the kill. To him a hunt was a failure unless you got your limit. Once I figured this out about him I never hunted with him again, or anything else for that matter. I never measure the success of a hunt by the kill. Some of my best most memorable hunts I never even popped a cap.


Well said...
Now as I'm getting older,....the need to take game doesn't seem so important as it once was.
Alway was  in the "Eat what you shoot" school as well...have given up a few partners(?) for that same reason.

Mostly it's :
Lack of hunting areas ...use to work hard on that all year.....Biggie

Hunting partners/family ...dying off ...or just quitting....

Used to spend a lot of time hunting alone...as I only had to answer to myself...Lately because of health reasons.....prefer taking someone with to at least dial 911

Just the ambition to get my butte out of the sack, in a cold tent at O-dark thirty.....
Favorite time of day....dawn in the woods...least favorite...getting up that early.

Still go out and do still take a gun(s)...
Use to start about the middle of Sept....and hit it hard till about the end of Jan.

Not so much these days.

Mostly miss the challenge, planning, gear, companionship, and just marvel at the outdoors.

No guilt....just a decision if I want to take this game or not.

----------


## Rick

Me three. I've missed a lot and shot a few. A bunch I don't remember but I'll never forget the buck I watched down the barrel as it walked across a cornfield in front of me. I never pulled the trigger on him. I will never forget that sight picture. Ever.

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## Manwithnoname

> Well said...
> Now as I'm getting older,....the need to take game doesn't seem so important as it once was.
> Alway was  in the "Eat what you shoot" school as well...have given up a few partners(?) for that same reason.
> 
> Mostly it's :
> Lack of hunting areas ...use to work hard on that all year.....Biggie
> 
> Hunting partners/family ...dying off ...or just quitting....
> 
> ...


I can relate to all of that too. It gets harder every year to leave a warm bed for 20 someodd degrees, but once you do, it's all worth it. Yes sir, I have hunted alone now for more years than I've hunted with someone else.  I do have a confession to make, however, I did aquire me a new hunting buddy a few weeks ago, a now 12 wk old lab pup. Ducks always used to be my passion. After my last lab, it just wasn't there anymore. Fast forward 15 yrs and my youngest daughter is showing me pictures of lab puppies for sale. I made the mistake of going to look. Little black Molly walked across the barn floor, sat at my feet and stared up at me until I picked her up. Game on.

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## hunter63

LOL.......Sucker!......
I love a good dog story...They say yu can't buy love...never brought home a dog.

We actually went from having dogs, mostly Lab's and a couple of shepards ...sometimes 4 at a time for over 50 years....
Until 2013.......Was a bad year....for us...

Labor day....I lost Gunner....my 4 year old trained duck dog...Still don't know why...got something and died in 5 days.
That was the last year I hunt serious for ducks....wasn't the same.

December I had my heart surgery....no shot guns or big guns for a year.

Jan. MIL passed...90's

Feb.... Maggie the lab, BIL dog that I hunted with and was part of the family...she was blind, had skin conditions, took a lot of doctoring, But was still a 100 pound lover lap dog...Passed at 13 years...

She was the last...we were out of dogs.....
Problem was , no dogs to holler at...so all DW and had to holler at each other..LOL.
It was soooo quite .

Every once in a while you would catch a glimpse of a dog, or a shadow, out of the corner of your eye around the house....kinda spooky in a good way. 

Come March our Ducks Unlimited Dinner took place...Found out there was going to be Silver Lab pup in the auction.
Guys were giving me a bad time about buying it..

Dinner night arrives, and I see there was 2 pups there.......DW (she does the door raffle) grabbed one pup to play with it as she normally does.....

Before the auction...our President called us, and the whole committee up front of the group.
Announced that we had had a bad year so they had gotten together,.. chipped in to buy that pup.....and presented DW and I with the pup she was holding. 

We both kinda lost it.....Bella came home with us....to be the followed by Molly (springer) the following year...(yeah I buy dogs.)

As far as sight picture and memories go....I recall most every deer, elk, antelope, turkeys, ducks and geese hunting trips, and even most pheasants  and trips. 
Memories so clear that I can tell you what time of day, weather, gun I was shooting, who I was with....like reliving it in my mind,...and some time at those campfire "remember when....have a beer" evenings.

Getting dimmer a bit...but DW say I can't remember her birthday...but can remember the trips.

Yup,  Rick...there have been a few bucks that I just sat and watched.... with a "Holy Molly, would you look at THAT!"...and watch it move off, never really giving any thought to shooting at it.

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## 1stimestar

> Come March our Ducks Unlimited Dinner took place...Found out there was going to be Silver Lab pup in the auction.
> Guys were giving me a bad time about buying it..
> 
> Dinner night arrives, and I see there was 2 pups there.......DW (she does the door raffle) grabbed one pup to play with it as she normally does.....
> 
> Before the auction...our President called us, and the whole committee up front of the group.
> Announced that we had had a bad year so they had gotten together,.. chipped in to buy that pup.....and presented DW and I with the pup she was holding.


Oh that's such a lovely story.  I am so glad for you.

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## BENESSE

@hunter63, well, it was meant to be.
I am glad you love wasn't wasted on not having any pets.

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## hunter63

> @hunter63, well, it was meant to be.
> I am glad you love wasn't wasted on not having any pets.


LOL...They are not pets....they are "furkids"and we found out it was so hard to not have any....

And how cool is it to have DW in attendance... not bat a eye while I'm bidding and  spending a bunch of money on a dog....
Someone says to her,.... "Well....He bought another dog"....She says...Yeah, he always does....LOL but ain't it soooo cute"

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## Grizz123

> Get hungry...


Thats what I was going to say

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## Old Professor

Now that is what I call a "Great DU Chapter". It is something I believe my chapter would do too. I really miss not having an "over size" lap dog. Problem is: it is all I can do to take care of myself (after all the operations) and I realize I would not be able to take the dog out and give it the exercise and training it deserves and needs.  Getting old isn't for sissys!!

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## BENESSE

> LOL...They are not pets....they are "furkids"and we found out it was so hard to not have any...."


So right. No matter the heartache of losing them, thinking you can't go through it again, it is so worth having them in your life for however long it turns out to be. They make you a better human being. As someone famous once said, (forgot who) "I strive to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am."

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## Manwithnoname

> LOL.......Sucker!......
> I love a good dog story...They say yu can't buy love...never brought home a dog.
> 
> We actually went from having dogs, mostly Lab's and a couple of shepards ...sometimes 4 at a time for over 50 years....
> Until 2013.......Was a bad year....for us...
> 
> Labor day....I lost Gunner....my 4 year old trained duck dog...Still don't know why...got something and died in 5 days.
> That was the last year I hunt serious for ducks....wasn't the same.
> 
> ...


Sucker+!!! Hahaha, yeah well what can I say? I think you said it best, "they say you can't buy love", yeah I'll dispute that one.  90% of the time I think she's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  The other 10%?? The little turds purpose for being born is to be a pain in my a$$!!!  No matter how hard I come down on her, 5 seconds later she's right beside me staring up with puppy dog I'm sorry eyes. A week ago today, she made a jail break from her kennel. She actually broke a bar on it. I came home to a couple of boots as chew toys and a corner of my $100 4" thick memory foam bed topper in confetti sized pieces everywhere.  Well, here we are a week later and as I write this her chin is laying on my right thigh after her and my Aussie helped me take out a ribeye.   I hope I'm as lucky as you my friend. When it all starts getting cloudy, I hope these are the ones, along with my kids, that stay clear! As far as staying on topic with the thread, when you hunt with a lab and "miss", it's more guilt looking in their eyes asking "wtf?" Than it is to make the shot! Yes, labs do give you that look and it's a universal language. Especially when complete with the sigh.

----------


## Manwithnoname

> So right. No matter the heartache of losing them, thinking you can't go through it again, it is so worth having them in your life for however long it turns out to be. They make you a better human being. As someone famous once said, (forgot who) "I strive to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am."


When Jake (my last chocolate hunting buddy) and I parted company, my duck hunting passion accompanied him. It has taken 15yrs and a little black girl giving me those eyes to start rebuilding that passion. My youngest daughter (the same one whose fault it is I have this pup) has given me back a lanyard full of calls. If I didn't know any better, I'd think I had been set up.  Unfortunately, my dekes and waders  werent given to her along with the calls.  You are right. One dog took my duck hunting passion with him when he left. Another brought that passion back the moment she sat at my feet and looked me in the eye. I owe it to her and to her predecessor too, to pass that passion on. I can only hope I can coax my daughter into joining the cold, wet, miserable, magic of a sunrise over a spread, a thermos of coffee, and your best friends. There ain't much better than that.

----------


## hunter63

> Sucker+!!! Hahaha, yeah well what can I say? I think you said it best, "they say you can't buy love", yeah I'll dispute that one.  90% of the time I think she's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  The other 10%?? The little turds purpose for being born is to be a pain in my a$$!!!  No matter how hard I come down on her, 5 seconds later she's right beside me staring up with puppy dog I'm sorry eyes. A week ago today, she made a jail break from her kennel. She actually broke a bar on it. I came home to a couple of boots as chew toys and a corner of my $100 4" thick memory foam bed topper in confetti sized pieces everywhere.  Well, here we are a week later and as I write this her chin is laying on my right thigh after her and my Aussie helped me take out a ribeye.   I hope I'm as lucky as you my friend. When it all starts getting cloudy, I hope these are the ones, along with my kids, that stay clear! As far as staying on topic with the thread, when you hunt with a lab and "miss", it's more guilt looking in their eyes asking "wtf?" Than it is to make the shot! Yes, labs do give you that look and it's a universal language. Especially when complete with the sigh.


Ain't that the truth.....everyone that has ever had a good dog(s) can relate...

They look at you with those eye to say...."I love you daddy"....like grandkids...
It hurts when you lose one them....but they always give you so much more back....

Had a shepherd back when along with a little yellow dog (sort short mini lab??? fat little thing.)...Along with my lab.

THe lab was my pheasant and duck dog....and a good one....but the other two looked so disappointed when they had to stay home......so I took all of them.
Shepherd didn't like water....but would go thru or swim.....kinda like "OK... if this it what it takes ...I'll do it"

She was a sight hunter...and figured out the pheasants were in the tall weeds , grass and brush....so would look in all of them.... Kept about 20 feet in front of me   and if one flushed she would stop and look around at me, as if to say...HERE"S ONE.... are we hunting these today, Right?
If I brought up the shotgun, she would take off after it.... she was like a center fielder, running it down and hold it down till I got there.
If it was something I didn't want to shoot.....she would look back...if I didn't react, she would just go back to hunting.

The little yellow dog ran down thru ever trail and hole in the brush, chasing anything out...but hated guns...When I would bring up the gun...she would just wince and wait till the shot was over....would get tired so ended up getting carried back to the truck in my game bag.

Lab just hunted with her nose and sneak to flush birds  run down cripples , a retrieve them.

I really still miss my "team" (like I do all my dogs)......we got a lot of birds, covered a lot of ground and enjoyed the hunt.
There were times I hunted with a broom stick...they didn't care ....the hunt was the best part,.... fresh air, friends, dogs, rain, mud.....chilli and beers after.

Feeling a bit nostalgic this evening...got back from a funeral of another hunting partner, Wally 87...the father of friends we all hunted together.
Ducks, geese ,deer, fish....camp stories.... and even an owl story.
RIP Wally...


BTW how does a dog eat a Mora #1....and not get cut...

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## Manwithnoname

Hunter, I am sorry for your loss.  I know you're older but even at my age, it's a hunting buddy to not be replaced.  A few years back I lost an uncle that was wholly responsible for what I know of rabbit hunting with beagels today. It had been a lot of years since we hunted together but memories I'll take to the grave. 

Kind of like your motley Crew, the first dog I ever owned that I'd truly call a hunter was a cocker spaniel. I know, originally they were bred as hunters. Well, this little guy did his ancestors proud. He would site hunt anything and retrieve anything.  Back to the ducks, I had him when I was very first getting into the quackers. Back then one of the lakes in my area was newly flooded. It was loaded with newly flooded timber and the Woodies were thick as mosquitos. The little guy might not have had a double coat or the endurance of a water dog, but he would retrieve until you called him off, even if he was half drowned. At the same time, my oldest was a just brought home baby. He rarely left her side, and let very few people besides me and her mom anywhere near that baby.

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## hunter63

LOL.....Quote.....Kind of like your motley Crew< quote..
I like that.
Or as I had to explain to a kinda "Uppity up-land hunter" in the parking lot of a hunting area....when he said...."What kinda dogs are those?"

"Them's Hunting dogs....Bud....."
...as the lab was rolling  in the mud puddle...little yellow dog sniffing butts...and the shepherd kept running all over as if to say...."Come on... Dad hurry up....there is stuff out here,... lets go get'em"

----------


## Manwithnoname

> Ain't that the truth.....everyone that has ever had a good dog(s) can relate...
> 
> They look at you with those eye to say...."I love you daddy"....like grandkids...
> It hurts when you lose one them....but they always give you so much more back....
> 
> Had a shepherd back when along with a little yellow dog (sort short mini lab??? fat little thing.)...Along with my lab.
> 
> THe lab was my pheasant and duck dog....and a good one....but the other two looked so disappointed when they had to stay home......so I took all of them.
> Shepherd didn't like water....but would go thru or swim.....kinda like "OK... if this it what it takes ...I'll do it"
> ...


Hahahaha, I didn't see the pic before.  See, that's just proof. They know exactly what they're doing. The afford mentioned cocker. When he was just a pup, I came home to exactly the last couple of chapters I hadn't read yet, being eaten by him. The beating commenced. He squirrled away and hide under a table. Oh no, we ain't done yet, so I stick my arm under to grab him for round two. I pull back just this side of a bloody stub. At this point, my now long since first ex intervenes just as I'm diving head first under the table to end this blood fued.  After that me and little Sammy were inseperable. I still have no idea how that book ended.  Don't even get me started on those ll bean and citori types.

----------


## tigrate

I consider a dog to be portable food, some of which can feed themselves, or at least, help me feed me and mine, and help hold down the rodent population. I think I remember feeling a bit guilty when I killed my first rabbit, age  7 or so, but not since. Some people just lack the zest for life.

----------


## WalkingTree

Ok, I'll get a bit serious and philosophical here.
*How do you lose the guilt of hunting?*
You lose the guilt by deciding to not live anymore. By dying. Because that's the only way. And even that's wrong, because you'll deprive all the critters that make up your human organism of life...and the majority of you is not you. Other species which are a part of your body that you'll never get rid of and need anyway...outnumber you. There are more of their cells in your body than yours. The majority of DNA in your body is not your own.

Like so many other things wherein the whole approach of thinking is wrong, it's forgetting that death is part of life. Death or killing isn't intrinsically "bad" - it's not about whether or not you kill, but instead *why* you kill. And often *how* as well. That's it. End of story. That simple. All else follows from this.

A vegetarian mindset has a flaw at it's foundation. Plants are living things as much as animals are living things. I've heard some form of "at least" I'm doing something (minimal)...by killing a plant versus an animal. Or some such...can't express it properly at the moment. But it doesn't quite validate the stance. How is it minimal...how is it a "least of evils?"

I have this idea that the real problem here is a kind of "animal chauvinism" - We can _relate_ to an animal's loss and suffering, but not a plant's. However, that can't equate to killing an animal being "worse" than killing a plant.

An argument there is that an animal has a central nervous system, and some degree of integrated experience...consciousness. Hence the ability to experience suffering. But I still think the jury would be out on this one. There's a whole lot more going on with biological chemistry than that...isn't that simple. Intelligence and awareness doesn't work the way that is being assumed here - I'm pretty sure that what we know as animal-style experience is just one form of what exists at other scales and different levels of biological organization - existed before brains were invented by evolution. A weed in your lawn has it's own intelligence and awareness...just not like ours and not that which we can relate to as animals. I know for a fact that a plant can experience shock just when being transplanted, and I'm pretty sure that parts of a plant's structure are screaming in their own way when death arrives...but since we can't relate to it as animals, we feel as if we have some kind of clear conscience if we're vegetarians.

So...hey...use the mesquite smoke and pass the mustard.




> So right. No matter the heartache of losing them, thinking you can't go through it again, it is so worth having them in your life for however long it turns out to be."


We're all gonna die. *You* are gonna die someday, and so am I. And your dog and horse too. (Unless we're in some matrix or simulation and we've all been deceived by some devil, of course) Many people don't seem to realize this...rather, only know it in 'theory', but don't really face and accept their mortality in reality. So...it's not about the loss. That's gonna happen and can't be avoided. Instead, it's about having life when you have it. Cherish it...but not as if it's supposed to last forever, and not as if it's value is tainted or lessened by the fact that it will be over someday.

At my funeral...or at my dog's funeral...I'd demand that we don't mourn someone's _loss_ of me - it's not about their loss. That's weird. Or my loss of my dog. It instead should be about _my_ life, or my _dog's_ life - the fact that I or he/she even lived...the funeral should be a celebration that a life was even lived and experienced...if a mourning, a mourning that I (or my dog) didn't get more life. But not a mourning of _someone else's loss of me_ (or of my dog).

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I read somewhere that we (humans) were given dominion over every living thing that creepeth upon the Earth (there is no guilt in that) The only thing we couldn't eat was one particular PLANT (this is where guilt comes to play).

Alan

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## WalkingTree

Never heard of the animal of knowledge. The forbidden meat. Unless it's pork.

Maybe the whole thing was about the knowledge of yum. The yum of meat. Of meat and plant together.

It was the tree of knowledge of seasonings. Or it's wood smoke.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Well, I'm sure there could be a huge debate about what it was all about,  but the debate about what it wasn't about would be pretty short from a vegan, carnivore point of view. It wasn't about guilt of hunting or eating meat.  

Really, I have no problem with someone who doesn't want to eat meat.  I won't try to make them.  I'm not preparing separate meals for them either.  AND most importantly, I'm not going to listen to them try to impose their views on me.  

LIfe sustains life.  It's simple.  Our bodies and metabolisms cannot extract the energy we need to live from pure mineral.  So, until that day I'm going for the well rounded, guilt free diet.  It often requires a steak knife to eat it.

Alan

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## Rick

I never engage in which came first the chicken or the egg. I only know which one made it to my house last.

Some guy said it's not what goes in your mouth that defiles you. It's what comes out of it.

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## madmax

My wife has a nephew and his wife that are fruitarians.  Been that way for years.  He's doing ok but she complains of fatigue, diarrhea, bloating, anemia, etc.  He won't be far behind her.  I would just love to say,  " Uh.  You only eat fruit.  It might just be your diet."  Duh.  They are educated people.  He once said to me that because our eyes look forward and not to the side we were meant to be herbivores...Huh?  He got this deer in the headlight look on his face if he'd ever heard of a vegetarian owl or cat or lion.  They didn't change their minds or diet.  They are still young.  When I was young I could eat cold pizza and a beer for breakfast, fried pork chop sandwich and beer for lunch,  fried chicken and beer for dinner...for weeks and felt fine.  Not anymore.  It'll catch up to you eventually.

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## JohnLeePettimore

My late 1 cent:

Don't _lose_ the guilt.  Don't get it in the first place.

Everything dies, and everything gets eaten by something else, whether it be a predator, a worm, an insect, or a bacteria.  Hunters kill pretty quickly and cleanly by nature's standards.  Here in Arkansas, a couple hundred thousand deer are harvested every year.  The starvation, disease, and death of the deer population, along with other animals that would be competing for the food, would be slow and horrible if the deer weren't thinned out by the quick kill of a hunter.

Killing and eating an animal isn't cruel.  Torturing, or having them fight for entertainment is, but not killing and eating.  As the comedian Brad Stine said:  "Honor their culture and eat them up!"

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

> ... Hunters kill pretty quickly and cleanly by nature's standards. ...


Nature shows always cut the filming after the animal is down.  They don't show the pride of lions literally ripping some creature to pieces while it is still blinking.  They'll do it to you and me too.  I dare any of these bunny huggers to walk up on a cow that's been caught calving by coyotes and they've had their way with her for a few hours, and she's still alive and tell me that hunting is cruel. Nature is unbelievably cruel and brutal.  A well placed bullet achieves the same goal a lot quicker and often without a whimper.

Alan

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## Charlejack

Thanks alaska for the answer.

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## Charlejack

> Thanks alaska for the answer.


If you can't overcome this feeling, then you shouldn't go hunting. You must always be confident in your actions. Sometimes one mistake can cost you dozens of hours of waiting. So you'd better keep fishing if you're good at it. Or else overcome this feeling of guilt. If you can do it, then go ahead. I had a similar feeling before I tried spam, and then I gave up hunting all together and just stuck with spam.

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## zippywoop1

The way I see it personally is that the animal was going to die anyway, whether from a predator or a car. At least in this case it'll get a good proper use and provide for the family or improve your quality of life. You can't do anything without sacrifice, but sometimes sacrifices are noble, even if their impact is small.

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## Dropship

> ..I have a strong sense of guilt when I kill a fury animal..


In a starving post-apoc world you'd feel a lot more guilty if you let your wife and kids starve to death, so if you get the shot, take it.. :Smile: 

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## Dropship

PS- that crosshairs pic is just something I pulled off the net, I don't hunt myself, but as a matter of interest is the rifle guy presumably aiming for the heart?

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