# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Building a new "Survival Rifle"

## Sourdough

Mostly for "Kicks & Giggles" I am building a light (4.9 pounds) survival rifle. It will incorporate several features from the Savage M-24C "Camper's Companion" with it's storage compartment in the butt stock. It will have basic open sights & a weaver 1913 type rail for a quick release scope mount. the scope should fit in the butt stock (I hope). 

The Caliber: 6 MM The Cartridge: 243 Winchester. Barrel length will depend on the balance point when the 8.5 ounce scope is in the butt stock. However as the H&R youth model comes with a 22" barrel, it will be some place in the 16" to 22" range, the rifle could end up as short as 29.5". This firearm is partly for redundancy of my Winchester Model 70 Stainless Steel "Classic" Featherweight which is also .243 Winchester.

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## Ole WV Coot

Good Luck, I don't believe I will ever find the "perfect" rifle, handgun or knife and don't think I could make something I would be happy with.

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## hunter63

Sounds intresting.
So what action are you building it on?
Savage 24 or H&R?

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## Pal334

Sounds like a plan. How/why did you decide on .243 Winchester?

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## Sourdough

> Sounds like a plan. How/why did you decide on .243 Winchester?



Pal334: I did not care about the cartridge as long as it fell with-in a very broad range of acceptable choices. It could have been .22 Hornet to 30/06. My priority was weight first, and package length of the disassembled rifle second. So the finale package should be 16 1/2" long and 4.9 pounds weight, which will fit under the seat of the snow machine or into a small day-pack.

HUNTER63: I am starting with your pet receiver the H&R. The start point is the youth model superlight synthetic which is 5.3 pounds in .243 Winchester, the lightest center fire rifle I could find for under $265.00 with factory open sights installed.

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## SARKY

I'm in works on a survival/field rifle. Mine is a bit more high tech. I'm starting with a Stainless Ruger M-77 MKII chambered in 7.62x39, I am rebarreling/rechambering to a carbon fiber barrel in 6.5 Grendel. I am also altering the feed mechanism to accept AR mags. It will have popup irons and keep the Ruger scope mounting system. Haven't decided on the stock yet.

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## hunter63

SD, I hear you, my first Handi came with a .243, I really like this round.
It's just I like the .270 better, (what's on #2 Handi now).

Can't wait to see pic's.

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## hunter63

So, SD, how is it comming?
Been away for a while.

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## Sourdough

> So, SD, how is it comming?
> Been away for a while.



It arrived in Anchorage a week a go, I might drive in this week, I need hydrolic oil filters for the logsplitter, and well pump supplies, and fresh food.

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## hunter63

SD, if your project does weigh in at 4.9 pounds, I thinking you are gonna like that .243 a whole lot more than say, a 30-06 or .308.

Raining to day so headed into town for a the Wifi

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## beetlejuicex3

We need some pics!

Survival guns are an underserved niche in my opinion. Nice work piecing together your own.  For survival rifles I tend to be attracted to the combination guns.  Stuff like the Savage Model 24F appeal to me.

Sparky's making a 6.5 grendel!  That round looks so awesome...


greenbeetle

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## Rick

I have to agree with you. There is not a forum that discusses guns that doesn't lament about the loss of the Marlin camp gun, the M6 Scout or even the Savage 24C. With all that interest out there, you'd think that some of the makers would re-introduce one or two.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I have to agree with you. There is not a forum that discusses guns that doesn't lament about the loss of the Marlin camp gun, the M6 Scout or even the Savage 24C. With all that interest out there, you'd think that some of the makers would re-introduce one or two.


 I saw a Marlin camp gun, at a gun show saturday. It was a 9mm, and the guy was asking either $675 or $875. (Poor writing on the tag.) I laughed and went on my way. Two months ago, I passed on one for $325.

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## aflineman

Sourdough,
Midway has the Choate Survivor stock and Storearm forearm. Scope will not fit in the butt-stock, but the forearme in nice fro some storage, and the screw makes it easy to take-down. If you do not go that route, I found that the knurled screw that fits in the side of my old CB radio (to mount it) is the same thread and length for my forearm. Works well on my .243 to take it down or change barrels. (I don't have the Survivor set-up on my .243, just my 12ga and 20ga/.357mag).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=869991

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=763418

I have a some on a couple of my NEFs. Work well with a small slip-on butt-pad and a Velcro shell holder.
I also like the weight of the .243, but make sure your barrel shoots well. Some of the light .243 barrels don't hold a group. Mine does now, but it took me 3 of them and finding a load she likes.

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## Sourdough

> Sourdough,
> Midway has the Choate Survivor stock and Storearm forarm.
> http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=869991
> 
> http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=763418
> .



WOW, Ten Thousand thank-you's. That is 1/2 the price that H&R "Parts Department" charges. (Rep point coming)

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## aflineman

> WOW, Ten Thousand thank-you's. That is 1/2 the price that H&R "Parts Department" charges. (Rep point coming)


No problem. These little NEF Survivors have a soft spot with me. IIRC, my little 12ga was my first post on the site.  :Smile:

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## hunter63

So, SD, how's the little guy coming?
Never did hear, unless I missed a post while on the road?

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## Sourdough

> So, SD, how's the little guy coming?
> Never did hear, unless I missed a post while on the road?


Well, I could not figure exactly what I wanted to do with the .243, as they wanted $90.00 just to cut and crown. So I but that on the back burner, and doug out all the pieces and parts form other H&R projects. I found a 20 Ga. barrel that went to nothing. 

So I cut it off at 18 1/8" and squared it up on the belt sander, and it would not take to forend screw, so I duck taped the forend on, and fired a few rounds. Then cut the Butt-stock off so as to have a over-all length of 27". So intriem I have a "Mad-Max" road-warrior shotgun.

I am going to order the survivor butt-stock and then cut the .243 barrel to about 16" I do that in the spring.

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## hunter63

SD, thanks for the up date, was kinda wondering.
Sometimes you just have to wait to let the project tell you what it wants to be.

I brought my .243 barrel back from "The Place" has been stashed for a year or so, wanted to clean it up and make sure it wasn't rusty.

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## kyratshooter

About a year ago I bought the Rossi version in 30-06.  I may have to get a  .243 barrel for it.  

the 30-06 is a dandy and is very accurate for the first 3 shots.  On the third shot the scope flies off.  Last time I put it back together I used JBWeld instead of locktite so I am hoping I have the problem under control.  

It would be nice to have deer killing capabilities without the recoil.

 :rambo:

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## y2k

In order to get maximum utility, you have to somehow be able to fire both a centerfire rd and .22lr, and you have to have rapidfire, too. The various 223autos with .22lr conversions do that really well.  That is to say, 223 AK variants, the Mini-14 Ruger, the AR-15.

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## Sourdough

> In order to get maximum utility, you have to somehow be able to fire both a centerfire rd and .22lr, and you have to have rapidfire, too. The various 223autos with .22lr conversions do that really well.  That is to say, 223 AK variants, the Mini-14 Ruger, the AR-15.



Sorry But I fail to see how this post is relevent to the Original Post.......Do you mean Auto's or self-loaders.......?

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## kyratshooter

SD you know some folk can not say the words "survival gun" without visualizing an AK or M-16.  It's like when someone says music I see a guitar and others visualize an MP3 player.  I think it is an "old guy" thing.

One real nice advantage of the NEF or Rossi system is that one can buy the multi barrel system and stick the shotgun tube and a couple of shells in the backpack just to have the extra versitility.  

I think at night, when the campfire burns low, an 18 inch 12 ga barrel with some #4 shot on that receiver would give me a warm fuzzy feeling while I sang kumbiya.

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## Rick

Is an MP3 like a banjo?

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## crashdive123

> Is an MP3 like a banjo?


I thought it was an army guy that wore an armband and carried a billy club.

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## Rick

Oh. 3 of them? I get it.

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## hunter63

> In order to get maximum utility, you have to somehow be able to fire both a centerfire rd and .22lr, and you have to have rapidfire, too. The various 223autos with .22lr conversions do that really well.  That is to say, 223 AK variants, the Mini-14 Ruger, the AR-15.


I guess I have to ask....Why?

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## aflineman

> In order to get maximum utility, you have to somehow be able to fire both a centerfire rd and .22lr, and you have to have rapidfire, too. The various 223autos with .22lr conversions do that really well.  That is to say, 223 AK variants, the Mini-14 Ruger, the AR-15.





> I guess I have to ask....Why?


+1, I would also ask why.

I would never feel undergunned with just my 12ga H&R Survivor. Nor my 20ga/.357 combo NEF (two barrels). Nor even any of my Savage Model 24s. I own military rifles, and have used many styles all over the world. I still prefer my 12ga H&R for most survival situation I would envision. A .223 auto rifle really does not have as much of a place in my fold of "survival rifles" as say even a .30-30 lever action would.

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## oldsoldier

> In order to get maximum utility, you have to somehow be able to fire both a centerfire rd and .22lr, and you have to have rapidfire, too. The various 223autos with .22lr conversions do that really well.  That is to say, 223 AK variants, the Mini-14 Ruger, the AR-15.


Have to agree with hunter and AF here.... HUH????  Also I've never heard of a .223 AK....  Have I missed something? Is there a new toy I missed?

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## hunter63

> Have to agree with hunter and AF here.... HUH????  Also I've never heard of a .223 AK....  Have I missed something? Is there a new toy I missed?


I have seen some conversions, but failed to see the point?
Trying to think of the name.........
But,
AK, 7.62 x 39, why convert?
AR .223, lots of uppers avalible if that isn't your round of choice.

Of course if you just ran out of stuff on your "life, want list", Hey, go for it.

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## dscrick

My thread about my survival kit shotgun:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=1545

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## hunter63

> My thread about my survival kit shotgun:
> 
> http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=1545


I did go back and review as I'm a big fan of the NEF/H&R myself.
Your points are still valid.
I guess I'm too cheap to invest in the survival stock set up, but the stock mounting screw hole will fit 4, 2-2/4 shot shells under the recoil pad.

Or anything that is the same size. Does add stock weight.

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## y2k

but the .22lr unit for the AR-15 offers cheap, quiet practice, quiet foraging of small game. 223 is a bit much for squirrels, 22 is a bit light for deer..223 handles deer ok, to 100m or so, if using 60 gr Nosler Partition sp's

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## kyratshooter

> but the .22lr unit for the AR-15 offers cheap, quiet practice, quiet foraging of small game. 223 is a bit much for squirrels, 22 is a bit light for deer..223 handles deer ok, to 100m or so, if using 60 gr Nosler Partition sp's


But,but, but, but, but I don't like AR rifles and I can buy four of anything else for the same money as an AR and .22 adapter.

I also do not care for fat chicks with no teeth, even if they have big boobs.  You can have all of them you want, just don't expect me to tell you she should be working for Victoria Secret

 :knight:

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## Rick

You are so going to heck or the ER, depending on how bad the next chubby chick beats up on you. 

For the record, I like all women even those that look like men. (will that clear me?)

Oh, and Michael Jackson, same thing.

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## y2k

what can you buy for $200? A .22 ONLY. A single shot NEF, maybe with a shotgun barrel. I can get a stripped RRA lower for under $140, shipped thru a local dealer, from GunsAmerica.com. I can assemble the lower parts in an hour. I can get an assembled upper from Model1Sales for $500, and a mag for $10. I can get the .22 unit for $150. Total $800, and I have a rifle with which I can win matches, defend myself, take big or small game. You can't do 3 of those 4 things with any bolt action or single shot rifle. :-) If you get a short-barreled version, with a telescoping stock, and shtf, you can always conceal it in a backpack, or slung under your arm, under a coat. Or, pay the $200 tax and you'll have that option today. The AR offers a return to zero scope mount, "see thru" scope mounts, rustproof finish, ease of cleaning in the field, ease of barrel and bolt replacement, luminous iron sights, protected iron sights, a host of other "combat-related" things that sometimes help with foraging, and which you can't get or do with any bolt action, and with no other autoloaders, either,(much of it, at least). You can get an ambi-safety, GREAT 'drop in" trigger jobs, cheekpcs, bullet drop compensators, tracer ammo, etc, etc. There's nothing like it for versatility.

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## y2k

Maybe you don't "like" having to breathe, eat, etc, either. The fact is, tho, that a bolt action is NOT much in the way of versatile, and it's just not feasible to carry more than one longarm. So, if you want to play games, and waste your time and money, go for it. I post for the people who need to learn, not for those who aren't interested in learning,.

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## Rick

Me thinks you post to hear yourself talk.

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## finallyME

Obviously, someone doesn't know how to use a bolt action properly.  They also don't know the capabilities of a bolt action.

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## Pal334

> but the .22lr unit for the AR-15 offers cheap, quiet practice, quiet foraging of small game. 223 is a bit much for squirrels, *22 is a* *bit light for deer..*223 handles deer ok, to 100m or so, if using 60 gr Nosler Partition sp's


Not sure how this squares with your profound advocacy of the .22 as a bear defense / killer catridge

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## Beans

> Well, I could not figure exactly what I wanted to do with the .243, as they wanted $90.00 just to cut and crown. So I but that on the back burner, and doug out all the pieces and parts form other H&R projects. I found a 20 Ga. barrel that went to nothing. 
> 
> So I cut it off at 18 1/8" and squared it up on the belt sander, and it would not take to forend screw, so I duck taped the forend on, and fired a few rounds. Then cut the Butt-stock off so as to have a over-all length of 27". So intriem I have a "Mad-Max" road-warrior shotgun.
> 
> I am going to order the survivor butt-stock and then cut the .243 barrel to about 16" I do that in the spring.


SD Cut the barrel off with a hacksaw, fine tooth blade. Make sure it is square and recrown it with a brass round headed screw in an electric hand drill.

Coat the brass screw head with some 800 grit grinding compound and stick the head of the brass screw in the muzzel and smooth away.  I have done that several times without a problem.
The round part should almost fit in the muzzel but still be large enough to not to enter in the bore.  All you need to do is remove any burrs left by the hacksaw.

Larry Potterfield from MidwayUSA also demo'ed that on the outdoor channel a couple of months ago,

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## Sourdough

> Sourdough,
> Midway has the Choate Survivor stock and Storearm forearm. Scope will not fit in the butt-stock, but the forearme in nice fro some storage, and the screw makes it easy to take-down. If you do not go that route, I found that the knurled screw that fits in the side of my old CB radio (to mount it) is the same thread and length for my forearm. Works well on my .243 to take it down or change barrels. (I don't have the Survivor set-up on my .243, just my 12ga and 20ga/.357mag).
> http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=869991
> 
> http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=763418
> 
> I have a some on a couple of my NEFs. Work well with a small slip-on butt-pad and a Velcro shell holder.
> I also like the weight of the .243, but make sure your barrel shoots well. Some of the light .243 barrels don't hold a group. Mine does now, but it took me 3 of them and finding a load she likes.


I am going to order both parts today, Thanks again.

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## aflineman

> I am going to order both parts today, Thanks again.


No problem. I just picked-up another one and am deciding if I want it on my .243 or on another of my 12 gauges. For me, they just make a nice walk-around. Although between my Handis and my Savage 24s, I am getting to many walk-around's to choose from. Maybe it is a good thing I am living in two places that are separated by a few hours drive. Gives me an excuse to the wife; "Well gee dear, I have to stock both places now".  :Smile:

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## hunter63

> .......... Gives me an excuse to the wife; "Well gee dear, I have to stock both places now".



LOL, now you got it....I prefer to call it "deploying my assets".

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## Sourdough

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by aflineman  
Sourdough,
Midway has the Choate Survivor stock and Storearm forearm. Scope will not fit in the butt-stock, but the forearme in nice fro some storage, and the screw makes it easy to take-down. If you do not go that route, I found that the knurled screw that fits in the side of my old CB radio (to mount it) is the same thread and length for my forearm. Works well on my .243 to take it down or change barrels. (I don't have the Survivor set-up on my .243, just my 12ga and 20ga/.357mag).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=869991

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=763418

I have a some on a couple of my NEFs. Work well with a small slip-on butt-pad and a Velcro shell holder.
I also like the weight of the .243, but make sure your barrel shoots well. Some of the light .243 barrels don't hold a group. Mine does now, but it took me 3 of them and finding a load she likes. 

I am going to order both parts today, Thanks again.

Well, the parts just arrived, So it is time to build something.

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## Rick

Nothing like Christmas coming early. 

Now that you have link posting down you have to work on picture posting. Really.

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## Sourdough

> Now that you have link posting down you have to work on picture posting. Really.



Just assume that I am very handsome............. :Scared:  :Scared:  :Scared:

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## Rick

Er, a....I meant the firearm but we'll be happy to make that assumption.

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## glockcop

Sounds like a great concept. But it will never work. Everyone knows that a real survival rifle is an AR with a 22 lr conversion, just ask that y2k guy  :Whistling: . After his enlightenment, I'm gonna sell all my bolt actions and everything not semi auto to the "enemy"  :chair: . Why didn't I think of that myself? Hahahaha! Good luck on the project.

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## Sourdough

I am not sure if I want to continue this thread, or start a new thread. Maybe both.

So I have been switching a lot of parts between different H&R firearms. And here is the sad truth for me. Sad because I have made every effort to NOT come to this conclusion.

Conclusion: I can't beat a survivor stock & For-end with a .12 Gauge Barrel for a survival "ONLY" firearm. 

Nothing is as light & Versatile
Nothing else shoots .12 ga. flares (Very-Very important to me)
Nothing else in a H&R single shot will stop a Brown Bear attack better.
Nothing else shoots 3 1/2" & 3" & 2 3/4" and those sweet 1 1/2" loads.

The ability to shoot flares and 1 1/2" (Slugs or #7 1/2 shot) shells really extends the versatility of this set-up for Alaska, Strictly for survival, NOT defense, NOT hunting.

I'll still have a very light weight .243 Winchester also, but it was folly to be cornered into a single application firearm for survival.

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## Sourdough

Also the Barrel & Forend are 18 1/4" long.

The "Survivor" Buttstock and Receiver are 17 7/8" long.

Assembled it is 32 3/4" long.

So disassembled it will fit inside a small day pack.

Color me Happy with the final product (For ME Only).

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## Pal334

Would a double barrel give you more "leeway". I like the way you have described what the single barrel will do for you, just thinking a double would "double" it with slight increase in weigth etc. . I guess I am just a tinkerer, never quite satisfied with anything as it is  :Smile:

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## klickitat

> Would a double barrel give you more "leeway". I like the way you have described what the single barrel will do for you, just thinking a double would "double" it with slight increase in weigth etc. . I guess I am just a tinkerer, never quite satisfied with anything as it is


This is exactly where I ended up when I built Dolly and now I am looking at the same project but without hammers and in 20 g.

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## Pal334

> This is exactly where I ended up when I built Dolly and now I am looking at the same project but without hammers and in 20 g.


How did you come to choose 20 gauge over 12 gauge? And I agree with the hammerless. THe hammers "look cool" but they can snag

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## Sourdough

> Would a double barrel give you more "leeway". I like the way you have described what the single barrel will do for you, just thinking a double would "double" it with slight increase in weigth etc. . I guess I am just a tinkerer, never quite satisfied with anything as it is


I wanted it to be "Cheap" and Light weight. I bought the 12 Gauge long ago for $109.00 and the survivor kit was $47.00 + Shipping Plus two .97 cent cans of spray paint for camo.

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## Pal334

> I wanted it to be "Cheap" and Light weight. I bought the 12 Gauge long ago for $109.00 and the survivor kit was $47.00 + Shipping Plus two .97 cent cans of spray paint for camo.


Can't beat that, cheap,light and effective. The Frugal survivor  :Smile:

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## klickitat

> How did you come to choose 20 gauge over 12 gauge? And I agree with the hammerless. THe hammers "look cool" but they can snag


The older I get the less weight I like to pack. The 20 g. is just as effective as the 12 g. for me down here out of of big bear range.  12 g. and 20 g. have the same velocities. You loose a few pellets in the shot loads, but if you can shoot, I do not think you are at much of a disadvantage using a 20 g. vrs. a  12 g.
 As for the slugs the 20 g. if I remember right is 64 caliber. At 1350 fps. that is enough to dump anything I need to tip over.

I would really like the CZ Ringneck in 20 g. and think it will be the next project.

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## Pal334

> The older I get the less weight I like to pack. The 20 g. is just as effective as the 12 g. for me down here out of of big bear range.  12 g. and 20 g. have the same velocities. You loose a few pellets in the shot loads, but if you can shoot, I do not think you are at much of a disadvantage using a 20 g. vrs. a  12 g.
>  As for the slugs the 20 g. if I remember right is 64 caliber. At 1350 fps. that is enough to dump anything I need to tip over.
> 
> I would really like the CZ Ringneck in 20 g. and think it will be the next project.


I had not thought it through like that, but again it makes sense.  Another question, and  for SD also. Since you guys are in the cold area . For a handgun which is your preference, revolver or pistol? I hope I am not hijacking you here SD.

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## hunter63

Funny you bring up the 20 vs 12 question.

Back when I was "accessorizing" the orginal .243 Handi Rifle, I added all the shot gun barrels (WTH, they were $35 bucks each)...
.410/45lc, 28ga, 20ga, 20ga bull, 16ga, 12ga w/two screw in chokes.

But I did chose to go with the rifled Bull 20ga rather than the 12ga Bull (looks like water pipe, LOL)

Neither is a "stop sign gun" ( don't want to spend a lot of shooting at stuff you ain't gonna eat.

Shoots good with both sabots and reg slugs, does lead-up some, with the lead.

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## Sourdough

> Another question, and  for SD also. Since you guys are in the cold area . For a handgun which is your preference, revolver or pistol? I hope I am not hijacking you here SD.



It does not matter. If you use the correct lube. On our wolf hunting rifles we, wash everything in gasoline, and coat with Mobil 1 engine oil or diesel oil, and set it in a warm area and let it drain.

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## Pal334

> It does not matter. If you use the correct lube. On our wolf hunting rifles we, wash everything in gasoline, and coat with Mobil 1 engine oil or diesel oil, and set it in a warm area and let it drain.


That is interesting. We did something similar in Vietnam, gas wash and scrub, dip in a barrel of oil and wipe it as dry as possible with rags. We did daily cleanings, so it did not collect too much dirt.  I hope not to be in the kind of cold you guys are in, but will "file" that. Thanks

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## Rick

Does the gasoline strip the fouling out of the bore?

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## Pal334

We still had to bore brush them to clear fouling. It was used mostly to get rid of the horrible carbon build up

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## dscrick

> I am not sure if I want to continue this thread, or start a new thread. Maybe both.
> 
> So I have been switching a lot of parts between different H&R firearms. And here is the sad truth for me. Sad because I have made every effort to NOT come to this conclusion.
> 
> Conclusion: I can't beat a survivor stock & For-end with a .12 Gauge Barrel for a survival "ONLY" firearm. 
> 
> Nothing is as light & Versatile
> Nothing else shoots .12 ga. flares (Very-Very important to me)
> Nothing else in a H&R single shot will stop a Brown Bear attack better.
> ...


I think you hit it right on the head. As a pure survival weapon, the recipe you listed is hard to beat.

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## aflineman

My little 12ga H&R Survivor always gets time in the woods, pretty much all year long.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

This set-up rides in the truck/car most days, 20ga and a .357mag (soon to be .357MAX) barrel. 
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

The 12ga has got more birds than I can count. If I still had shotgun only areas, I would have no problem using it with slugs for deer.

Both break down small enough to go into a pack.

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## hunter63

Now that, my friend, is sweet! 
Poster for "Survival Gun"
Ya gotta love those Handi's...............

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## Sourdough

> My little 12ga H&R Survivor always gets time in the woods, pretty much all year long.
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> This set-up rides in the truck/car most days, 20ga and a .357mag (soon to be .357MAX) barrel. 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> The 12ga has got more birds than I can count. If I still had shotgun only areas, I would have no problem using it with slugs for deer.
> 
> Both break down small enough to go into a pack.


What do you have up in the pistol/hand grip.......? And what keeps it there..?

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## aflineman

> What do you have up in the pistol/hand grip.......? And what keeps it there..?


Just a couple of pieces of rolled-up Duct tape. It seems to stay there all on it's own, even under some very hard loads. The recoil pad has an old and cracked collar, so I have to tape there to reattach it as I need to. So far though, I have not needed to except for after my annual inventory/restock. It also now wears a wove paracord sling now (just like the 20ga in the other pic)

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## Sourdough

You have done a nice job.......do you have any 12 gauge flares......?

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## aflineman

> You have done a nice job.......do you have any 12 gauge flares......?


Thanks.

I don't normally carry flares. This time of year they would be OK, most other times they would be a problem. The woods around here are tinder dry a good portion of the time. 
I do however carry an electronic "glow" stick. Tie it on a string and twirl it over your head when it is dark (or darkish) out. Glowing circle that can be seen for miles. When I was a CAP cadet, we found a couple of folks that way. (Although in that era, they were using regular glow sticks)

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## Gilmore

The best survival rifle i have ever seen was on my first trip to Canada. Our camp owner had been having bear problems at the cabin we were staying at so he let us use his custom survival rifle. It was an over under .243 12 guage with a scope and see through sights. The iron sights were set to the 12 and the scope to the .243. it was an extremely cool gun and i would like to replicate it. the loads he used were very large grain .243 rounds and buckshot in the 12

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