# Prepping / Emergency Preparedness > General Emergency Preparedness >  survival rifles.

## ATough

I plan on getting an m6 airforce rifle.

I whas wondering what rifles everyone had or which one you're planning on getting?

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## Sarge47

> I plan on getting an m6 airforce rifle.
> 
> I whas wondering what rifles everyone had or which one you're planning on getting?


I own an AR-7 and a Ruger 10-22.  Winchester doesn't make the M-6 anymore so you'll have to shop around to find one.  Pity, it looks like a great gun.

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## ATough

they dont?    *crawls into a ball and cries.*

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## Tony uk

Henry Survival 22 looks like a good one for its size

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## Sarge47

> they dont?    *crawls into a ball and cries.*


No, bummer!  I called them a few days ago and asked if they did. (309) 944-5631) They told me they didn't, but I went ahead & got one of their cataloges anyway.

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## Sarge47

> Henry Survival 22 looks like a good one for its size


The benefits of the AR-7 is that it breaks down into and everything fits into the stock, and only weighs 2 1/2 lbs.  Henry Repeating Arms (www.henryrepeating.com) now owns the rights. Previously it was the Armalite Corp.  The new model has an extra 8-round magazine and the whole thing, when stored inside the stock, floats.  Also Henry has improved the sighting and has grooved the receiver to accept a scope.  I've read some reports that the main complaint seems to be jamming however I haven't had any problems with that yet.

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## rusty_oxydado

Sarge; 
  What ever it takes, a survival gun is just that. Interestingly you mention the .22 cal rifle, this caliber is responsible for dropping more big game than any other caliber weapon ever made. It is not a sure kill every time, and to drop the big ones you have to become more than a average shot. You need to know where to hit to do what you need to do inorder to glean this animal.
  So being a good shot is good, but knowing where to hit is even more important.
  If your bang stick can assure you of good tight groups, this is what is important, everything else is just window dressing.

  Rusty.

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## Sarge47

> Sarge; 
>   What ever it takes, a survival gun is just that. Interestingly you mention the .22 cal rifle, this caliber is responsible for dropping more big game than any other caliber weapon ever made. It is not a sure kill every time, and to drop the big ones you have to become more than a average shot. You need to know where to hit to do what you need to do inorder to glean this animal.
>   So being a good shot is good, but knowing where to hit is even more important.
>   If your bang stick can assure you of good tight groups, this is what is important, everything else is just window dressing.
> 
>   Rusty.


I hear you, I once had to use 6 or 7 rounds trying to finish off a squirrel with a .22 on a hunt once, and I was hitting him in the head!  (Musta been an "Irish" squirrel.)  ;>)  The dumbest thing I ever did was sell my Savage Stevens "over & under" for a hundred dollars.  .22 rifle on top, 20 gauge shotgun on the bottom. DUUUUHHH!!!  Truth of the matter, I probably would only carry a firearm in certain circumstances, but not all of them.  BTW, I salute a fellow "Scouter".

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## rusty_oxydado

My first rifle was a Winchester 01 .22 short single shot. I could chamber and fire longs, and long rifles in it too, but it was a bit more difficult to do.
  It was with this rifle I dropped my first deer, and elk, thanks to my uncles and them teaching me some old hunting tricks.
  Even a .22 short will drop large game if you know where to hit them, I don't think I should use this medium to go into this subject, however I need to stress that a head shot is not the best shot you can make, it is such a small target where you want to hit, and if you are off you have an animal who in most cases is unable to feed.
  I suppose for some, convienience is an issue in chooseing a survival weapon, if you have food in camp there is little need to drag a rifle around with you unless it is for protection.
  Given my druthers I would have to go for the old Winchester 02 "Gallery" pump action ,22. I like the under barrel tube magazine, and when not needed, the twist of a skrew and the rifle comes apart in two sections, to stuff into your back pack. I have not seen these rifles in some time and I doubt if Winchester makes them any more.
  When it gets down to plain brass tacks, the choice of a survival rifle is a personal one, and as such should be respected by others.

  Rusty.

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## bear

I do not like the ar-7. I have shot a couple different ones and think they are very bulky and not very accurate. You can pick up a good used .22LR for next to nothing. Just try several different brands of ammo and stick with the one that gives you the best group. I have a Marlin 925 bolt action and have been very happy with it. I would not be afraid to use this rifle in a survival situation. If I was in a national disaster (hurricane Katrina) and needed a firearm for protection I would use my AK47.

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## Sarge47

> I do not like the ar-7. I have shot a couple different ones and think they are very bulky and not very accurate. You can pick up a good used .22LR for next to nothing. Just try several different brands of ammo and stick with the one that gives you the best group. I have a Marlin 925 bolt action and have been very happy with it. I would not be afraid to use this rifle in a survival situation. If I was in a national disaster (hurricane Katrina) and needed a firearm for protection I would use my AK47.


My kid brother came out of the Army & bought a brand new AR-15 & an AR-7.  He bought a kit that completely changed the look of the AR-7, including a "pistol-grip" handle for it.  I prefer my Ruger 10/22 since I live in Illinois and hunting anything here with a center-fire rifle is "verboten".  However the AR-7 is for emergencies only and I have no need of an assault rifle...at this time.

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## troutndeer

I have a springfield m6 scout and I highly recomend it. very accurate and the .410 is great.

Sarge47, winchester never made the m6 the newer ones were springfield, and the air force orignals were stevens. :Smile:

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## Sarge47

> I have a springfield m6 scout and I highly recomend it. very accurate and the .410 is great.
> 
> Sarge47, winchester never made the m6 the newer ones were springfield, and the air force orignals were stevens.


Okay, do you know if anyone else is making the M-6 Scout at this time?

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## troutndeer

I dont think so, springfield stoped production about 3 years ago. I have a stainless .22 hornet/.410 that i take every ware in the back woods.

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## ATough

well I hope I can find a m6.

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## Sarge47

> well I hope I can find a m6.


If not, don't sell the AR-7 short.  Henry Repeating Arms has made some great improvements, including adding an extra clip.  The receiver is also grooved for a scope which can help with the accuracy.

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## ATough

I also want the ar-7 if a gun can fold into the stock it has to be usefull.

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## zadig39

check the online gun auctions like gunbroker.com. i have never bought form any of these sites but its an option. shotguns are always a good choice. inexpensive,versitle the barrel removes from mine easily making it compact and stowable.

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## Sarge47

> check the online gun auctions like gunbroker.com. i have never bought form any of these sites but its an option. shotguns are always a good choice. inexpensive,versitle the barrel removes from mine easily making it compact and stowable.


Let me re-phrase, I won't spend a ton of money on a certain type of gun.  I called Savage-Stevens and they're planning on putting their Model 24 over & under back into production for a limited run.  I'll have to see what the asking price is.  Meanwhile I also have an H & R 12 ga. single barrel shotgun, not to mention a Ruger Mark II .22 cal. pistol.

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## zadig39

I've always liked the idea of those over-under combos, I will have to check them out if Stevens puts them back in production.

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## donny h

> I whas wondering what rifles everyone had or which one you're planning on getting?


The one I have: I'd say my 10/22, with a 16" barrel (legal minimum), Choate brand folding stock, and iron ghost-ring hunting sights.

Upsides: Short, durable, carry mucho ammo, accurate and reliable (with factory 10 round mags).
Downsides: Weight. It may be short and scope free, but it still weighs five pounds.

The one I'm getting: Kel-Tec Sub-2000.  One great feature of this carbine is that it folds down to 16", daypack size. The other great thing is that there are 3 models to choose from, each accepts pistol mags from different manufacturers, Glock, S&W, Beretta, and Sig.

So, in a daypack, a guy could have a Kel-Tec carbine, a Glock 17 in 9mm, and say a dozen 32 round mags that fit either weapon. A reasonable amount of firepower that's portable and discreet, costing about $1200 ($900 for the guns).

I'd have them in my hands if I could find a local dealer with a decent price on both.

http://www.kel-tec.com/sub2000.html

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## donny h

> 9mm ?
> 
> What would you do with that caliber ?


Urban survival.

.40 S&W and .45acp are better rounds, but they are a lot heavier, and more expensive.

9mm in a carbine is accurate out to 100 yards, and the rate of fire is impressive due to quick recovery times.

A centerfire rifle would have far greater range, but I question the value of that for urban survival, there's basically no such thing as a 200 yard self defense shot, and such rifles are difficult or impossible to conceal.

Any urban survival gun must be concealable, or it will be taken by law enforcement no matter how legal it is, as we saw in N.O. after Katrina, and in L.A. during the riots.

I have some rifles I could use for home defense, but if I have to travel in a disaster scenario, they will be left behind along with the shotguns and bolt action milsurp rifles. Remember, conceal it or lose it.

Here in Utah there are no gun laws beyond federal law, I could legally buy an AK or AR pistol for urban defense, but a pistol in 7.62x39/.223 is going to be hard to control, hard to be accurate, slow with follow up shots, exceptionally loud, with an absurd muzzle flash, and the ammo is heavy.

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## rusty_oxydado

Sarge47;
  Don't they still make the Universal Arms guns any more, You have a receiver, and as your needs change you change the barrels. The firearm looks like the old breach break single shotgun. It may be worth the investment to have a small calaber, high calaber, and shot gun, all you need do is replace the barrel to fit the gam you are going after.

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## trax

Thompson still makes those, so does NEF

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## trax

survivorman,
Back to your original question.
Not trying to pry or be rude, but I seem to recall you saying you're quite young. My question is, what experience do you have with firearms? Because if it's very limited, I'd suggest getting someone qualified to take you out shooting for awhile, you'll learn what you are comfortable with for a firearm, the basics of safety etc and get some experience hitting what you aim at. Again, I don't mean to sound condescending, but these things factor into your final decision, don't go buying something because it looks real cool or macho, buy what works best for you. someone who's posting in here and has been shooting for 30+ years might give you advice based on where they're at, not where you're at, unintentionally of course. I'm sure there's some qualified shooters around and most are more than willing to share their expertise.

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## Sarge47

> My choice for a survival rifle would be one of those...
> 
> -Ruger 10/22
> 5 pounds
> 36"
> 
> -Marlin papoose
> 4 pounds
> 35"/20"(folded)
> ...


I don't use a revolver, I have the Ruger Mark II semi-automatic .22 cal pistol with a 10 round clip.I can tell you one thing about Ruger, they back up their warranty in spades!

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## zadig39

There are alot of choices in .22 revolvers. Ruger Single-Six is a great one, and you have both .22 lr and .22 mag cylinders. Basicly 2 guns in one.

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## donny h

> Any thoughts on a good .22 revolver ?


You KNOW I do. :Smile:  

S&W model 617, 6 or 10-shot revolver with double action, comes in stainless. I wanted one when I got a .22 revolver, but the price was too stiff. Over $500 at the time, now it's closer to $600. If you could find a used 10-shot in stainless, that might be the best way to go.

S&W also has ultra-light revolvers in .22lr, with snubby barrels, they wouldn't be much use for hunting-survival, but they are very comfortable pocket guns. They are very spendy (I paid $700 for a 5-shot .357, weighs 13oz loaded), being made of high tech alloys like scandium and titanium.

The Ruger Single Six is the all time top seller, there are zillions of these things out there, and they are common on the used market as well as being reasonably priced brand new, they're offered in stainless, and the included .22 magnum cylinder can be swapped without tools. 

The only reason I didn't buy one is that the spent casings must be ejected individually, instead of all at once like most revolvers, that was just annoying enough to this plinker that I went with a Taurus 94.

Taurus model 94, 9-shot, stainless, 4" barrel, 27 oz., under $350. I thought this one was a nice balance of weight, length, and capacity and price. Fit and finish is nice, I've only shot maybe a 100 rounds through it so I can't really speak to it's accuracy, it's probably more accurate than I am. You may want to consider a Taurus, their reputation used to be bad, but they are making nicer stuff these days.

For the budget minded, H&R made a variety of 22s back in the day, many of them sell cheaply now on the used market, they had a reputaion as being heavy but sturdy and reliable. Some models used the traditional swing out cylinders, some broke open like a double barrelled shotgun, and there are higher capacity models, the 922 holds nine. I don't know about stainless options.

Whatever you buy, get it in stainless for traipsing through the woods in all kinds of weather, that's exactly the type of use where stainless pays off.

You really may want to consider a Ruger automatic, I have a MarkIII Hunter, it's my favorite gun, a pure pleasure to shoot, extremely accurate and reliable right out of the box, and not terribly expensive. Earlier used MarkIIs can be a real bargain.

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## donny h

> But this Mark II-III keeps on popping up.


It's no accident, their owners tend to crow about them, obviously including myself.

They really do shoot nicely, and put up with any of the cheapie ammo (in my experience), but like most or all autoloading .22s, they won't cycle the oddball stuff: subsonic, tracer, or snakeshot. That's why I also got the the Taurus.

The Hunter model is really nice, with it's fluted barrel it has the accuracy of the 7" bull barrel, but the weight and feel in the hand of the 5" standard barrel.

Warning, gun porn: :Smile:  

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## Sarge47

> lol
> 
> I like the Mark III standard. (just on looks of course).


This is a true experience I witnessed 1st hand & is a strong testimony to the quality of Ruger firearms.  Back in the 1960's one of my brothers bought one of the Mark (insert roman numeral here) pistols.  I would use it from time to time knocking off the occaisional  racoon that my dog would tree, etc.  Later my brother moved into an apartment that he would share with our cousin who was also an ex-marine recently returned from 'Nam and liked to get drunk...a lot.

One night when he was really plastered he told my brother he would show him how to tear down the Ruger pistol, clean it, and put it back together again.  He got it apart okay, and cleaned it, but couldn't get the gun back together.  My brother wrapped up all the parts in an old t-shirt, stuck the pistol back into the holster, and sort of forgot it over the years.  About 30 years later my father-in-law bought the pistol without the parts (my brother had lost them all over the years) for $20.  He then started ordering parts for it and began to piece the gun back together.  Imagine his anguish when he realized that there were three components that had to be factory installed!  So he reluctantly took the gun to a friend of his that had a federal firearms license to send it back to Ruger to have the parts re-installed.  He didn't have much money so he was hoping & praying that it wouldn't be to expensive.  When he got the phone call that his gun was back he very nervously asked how much he was going to have to pay.  He was told about $1.79 for the postage as the gun was still under warranty! Consequently I love Ruger and own a Mark II and their 10/22!

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## Sarge47

> Yeah...I own the 10/22 also, and i couldn't say a bad thing about them (both Ruger and the 10/22).
> So, i will definitely check out the Mark.
> 
> thanks


The new Mark has some cool new features as of late.  Mine is the one that bears a strong resemblance to the Nazi Luger of WWII. (Ve haf vays of making you talk!  Hopefully not like me.)  The new one has the same handle the 1911 Colt .45 has, plus some other stuff you'll want to check out

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## mangyhyena

Well, if I find myself in a survival situation it probably will not be out in the wilderness trying to hunt food.  I plan on staying put and living off a combination of stored supplies and food produced at the homestead.  (not on a homestead yet, but will be in less than 2 more years.)  So for me defense is my main priority when considering firearms.  And I realize that I would have to leave the homestead from time to time, so a full-sized assault rifle will not do for that.

I plan to purchase 3 AK-47's, Romanian, most likely.  I would like to convert one of them into a pistol with a kit.  All three would take the same magazines and I would have one that could be concealed under my coat should that need ever arise.  The advantage of an AK pistol, to my way of thinking, is that it is small enough to conceal under a big coat or in a gym bag, holds 30 rounds, and will not jam on you.  

That would leave 2 assault rifles for home defense and one for travel.  If I need any more than that I guess I'm in trouble.

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## mangyhyena

LOL.  I've heard that "survival plan" often enough that cool AK's are as important as stored food, IMHO.

Most important to the prepared, again in my humble opinion, is silence.  In other words keep your mouth shut about your supplies and preparations in your day-to-day life.  If folks don't know you have stored food and equipment then they shouldn't show up on your doorstep, hopefully.

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## trax

I think in the situation you're describing, concealing the AK would not be a priority. 

Go Wolfpack!

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## donny h

> I like the Mark III standard. (just on looks of course).


I should have mentioned to avoid the AMT clone of the MarkIII, AMT got sued but good over that deal, some say it killed the company. The few dollars you would save off of a real Ruger aren't worth the inferior quality, lack of customer service, and difficulty of fitting parts made for Rugers.

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## HOP

I think the over under concept for a survival is a good concept. The Savage Sevens are quite heavy though. .22/20ga is a good combo. With out resupply it would be kinda hard to fight off the bad guys with an asualt rifle on a daily bases, chances they want your stuff and arent going away. To me a survival fire arm is about gathering game and litle for protection.

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## cw0203

correct hop. I like the Henry U.S. survival rifle. .22 caliber. breaks down into the butt and floats. I've fired over 5,000 rounds through mine and the only complaint I have is the spring in the magazines tend to weaken so that the last round some times doesn't feed. It's a great little gun.

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## trax

that happens to a *lot* of rifles eventually, cw, after 5,000 rounds I'm not surprised. It is a good little rifle, I had one a few years ago but gave it to a friend when I moved away. Should have kept it.

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## Sarge47

> correct hop. I like the Henry U.S. survival rifle. .22 caliber. breaks down into the butt and floats. I've fired over 5,000 rounds through mine and the only complaint I have is the spring in the magazines tend to weaken so that the last round some times doesn't feed. It's a great little gun.


There's been some improvements in the gun since Henry took over from Armalite!  They also include an exra magazine and you can also buy extras from the company. :Wink:

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## cw0203

this is my third set of magazines, trax. My second set were from Armalite and they eventually crapped out on me as well. And they cost 3 times as much as factory magazines. So I'm back with good ol ' Henry.

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## cw0203

Didn't know Henry took over Armalite Sarge. I was ordering from Cheaper Than Dirt.

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## Sarge47

> Didn't know Henry took over Armalite Sarge. I was ordering from Cheaper Than Dirt.


Check out their web-site for more info,(www.henryrepeating.com) and don't be afraid to e-mail the Co. with any questions you might have.  I e-mailed over a year ago and the very next morning I had a response from the department head himself! :Wink:

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## cw0203

yeah, I e-mailed them a while ago wanting to get a catalog or something from them so I could get new mags. Within a week I had a catolog from them.In my snailmail.

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## cw0203

notice I don't call them clips. That just bugs me to no end when otherwise knowledgeable people call them that. Too long in the military I guess.

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## carcajou garou

A single shot .22lr bolt, or to buy a new one a Savage mod 24 in .22lr/20ga

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## Sarge47

> A single shot .22lr bolt, or to buy a new one a Savage mod 24 in .22lr/20ga


The problem is that Savage isn't making an "affordable" Model 24 now, just the expensive version, between $550 to $800! :EEK!:

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## carcajou garou

Then I stay wit my tried and proven single shot :Smile:

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## HOP

I have a Savage stevens little falling block .22 single shot and if functions well and when I was googling survival rifles this model came up with a take down version . Mine can't be broken down the break down is fairly expencive as well.
As far as assualt rifles I took basic with an M-14 and it is a fine battle rifle and the .308 is a great round and I concider any simi- auto in this caliber to be a wise choice after being checked for function and acuracy.

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## nohero

I have one of the AR-7's and it is a decent rifle but it does jam on a regular basis. There is nothing else comparable on the market to replace it with. What I use now is a Ruger 10-22 with a folding stock, 3  30 rd,. magazines, and 200 rds. of ammo. I had the factory sights replaced with the new fiber optic sights and added swivels and a sling. It will place 5 shots in an inch at 25 yards. That's as good as I can do even from a rest. I keep this in a rifle case with pouches on the outside that also hold a Leatherman Wave tool, a 3 watt LED flashlight with an extra set of batteries, a compass, space blanket,
plastic poncho, and a butane pipe lighter.

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## trax

I've had a few rifles jam during target practice when I'm putting a lot through them, never had one jam on a kill shot when it's the only shot I'm getting. Those chambers will tend to get a tad warm

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## Dr.Diode

ruger 10/22 and markIII stainless (parkerised to charcoal dull gray)5 clips for both , will feed and protect me a long time

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## Grizzly

I just found this site and Begin reading this thread a bit ago. I am very interested in survival under any and all conditions. 

As for the rifle issue it is really a matter of personal preference and ones pocket book. 

For my BOB I have a Springfield M-6 Scout .22 LR / 410 stainless, I also keep a .22 convertible single six .22 LR/.22 MAG in it along with collapsible fishing gear, water purification equipment, woodsmans pal Jr machete, folding shovel, cooking gear, space blankets, para cord, med kit and survival rations, plus some other stuff I can't remember.

I also have an M-6 in .22 Hornet / 410 and a Henry US Survival rifle. I have an AK-47 and Ruger Mini-14 in a Bullpup stock if the going gets really rough.

To clear up the M-6 issue, CZ made them for Springfield for the last several years and they got into some kind of argument. That is why Springfield stopped suppling them and why I bought the Hornet while I could get one. There are still some to be had but they are a bit pricey.

I am looking forward to exchanging ideas with y'all.

Grizzly

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## Sarge47

> I've had a few rifles jam during target practice when I'm putting a lot through them, never had one jam on a kill shot when it's the only shot I'm getting. Those chambers will tend to get a tad warm


Exactly right about the "Kill Shot".  A survival rifle is just that, a way to, hopefully, procure game.  The M6 scouter along with the Savage Over & Under, are great examples of the "Survival weapon."  They are both "Single Shots."  Just because the AR-7 has an 8 rd. mag. doesn't mean that you empty the whole clip as fast as you can at the 1st little bunny you spot.  You're not Elmer Fudd!  The idea is "one shot, one kill", even though you may pack more ammo in the mag.  If you want to fire a bunch of rds. quickly, the Ruger 10/22 is a good bet for that.  In a true survival situation you would take your time lining up your shot, getting as close as you dare without scaring your intended dinner off. :Cool:

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## scabbyota

I have a ruger 10/22 that I carry.

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## carcajou garou

I normaly carried a .22lr single shot rifle but in the last few years the encouters with feral dogs and the added encounters with bears has me wondering wether a lever in .44 mag such as the Henry would be a better choice?

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## FVR

Ahh, ya'll can carry those little pea shooters, sticking with the 308.  Just feel a little more cozy with something that can take down large game.  Something that makes a teeny tiny hole going in, and a BIG OL HOLE going out.

There is something to be said about "reaching out and touching" something.






> lt is a good rifle...  
> 
> ...and killed the bear that killed me.  
> 
> Anyway, l am dead.

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## Sarge47

> Ahh, ya'll can carry those little pea shooters, sticking with the 308.  Just feel a little more cozy with something that can take down large game.  Something that makes a teeny tiny hole going in, and a BIG OL HOLE going out.
> 
> There is something to be said about "reaching out and touching" something.


Maybe your Black powder guns could be used here in Illinois, but only BP, bow hunting, and shotguns are allowed to hunt big game in Abe Lincoln land! :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## FVR

Weapons of choice.


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> You got him, pilgrim!
> You nailed him clean.   
> 
> We got us an elk to skin!

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## paranoidrasta

I own a 30-06, 30-30, 10-22 w/ bull barrell for targeting, sks, and two .50 cal rifles.  I would love to own the .50 cal sniper rifle that the army uses!

I also own 2 blackpowder rifles, and 2 D Eagles.  I would like to own a glock 18, 23, and 17 special edition.

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## Beo

I like FVRs chioces, but I'll take my longbow, whatcha gonna do when the bullets run out! I can make arrows  :Big Grin:

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## FVR

One shot

One Kill

Swift Silent & Deadly



I can make a bow, arrows, and arrowheads from rocks and wood in my backyard.

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## Beo

One shot, one kill, no exceptions  :Big Grin: 
Although I will grant the Marine Corp Scout Sniper is the best sniper.
Damn Jarheads are good for something  :Big Grin:

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## FVR

Aw Jeez, now I'm going to have to give you 25.

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## RobertRogers

I like my old .300 savage, a great forest rifle and perhaps the best ever made for mountainous and forested area I live.

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## carcajou garou

Great caliber in a great rifle RR :Big Grin:

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## Beo

I'll take my British Army (First Model) Long Land Pattern Brown Bess Flintlock Musket has a 46 inch .75 calibre barrel is made of tempered seamless high carbon steel with a threaded breech plug. The lock is made with strong durable springs and has a case-hardened frizzen (hammer) that throws good sparks. The musket's total length is 63 inches and weighs 11 pounds.
Anyone here got a 17th Century type Doglock Musket, been thinking of getting one.
Beo,

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## Krankhead

For that, i use a SKS, 7.62x39, with a Synthetic Folding Stock
Light, short, easy to transport.  

 :Smile:

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## sh4d0wm4573ri7

my weapon of choice is my trusty 870, slug to 9 shot is quite adequate for protection as well as procureing food also have a 22 and an rws pellet rifle as backup

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## Beo

I use a throwing stick  :Big Grin:  and a club  :Big Grin:

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## HOP

You can hunt with a good battle rifle and kick commie butt also.
But IMHO for daily foraging you have to concider the noise factor which will without adoute bring unwanted attention to your self not to mention spooking game Hunting with a bow is a good way to perfect you creep in case you gotta stalk some zombies.

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## marberry

planning on geting the  Beretta RX4 STORM complete synopsis below


The most advanced semi-automatic rifle ever designed  Special purpose emphasizes individual performance with multiple stock configurations, ergonomic adjustment and ambidexterous controls  ARGO (Auto Regulating Gas Operation) system  Comes standard with reversible cross-bolt safety & ambidexterous bolt release  Reversible magazine release  Sold with 2 stock configurations and a third fixed, pistol grip stock is available (extra purchase required)  5-position telescoping stock allows for adjustment in length of pull  "Sporter"-style stock version for a more traditional feel  Ghost ring sights with protective ears adjustable for windage and elevation  10-round magazine, plugged to 5 and will also accept optional 30-round magazines  9 sling attachments points  Technopolymer design for quick disassmebly that requires no tools  Caliber: .223 Rem.

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## marberry

$1500 gun by the way lol

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## Stealth

oh god, but its worth it:P

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## MedicineWolf

$1,090 on riflesnguns.com

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## marberry

can i have it sent to canada through that site ?

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## dilligaf2u2

Wait! Wait! Wait!

Survival from what?? Out in the wilds or from the dang fool wanting to come take my choco-chip cookies and the TP?  

In the field I have a 22 cal AR-7. In the wilds of Suburbia I have a 7.62mm M-21. I have been thinking about getting back into black powder flintlocks again. I can make my own powder. The 47 lbs of gold in my closet (I wish) can be melted down for bullets. 

If you can find it! The army book, Improvised Munitions is a good read. I can make my own clawmores and pipe bombs from scratch. (I will not admitting to making them)!! 

So lets be honest? What would you rather do? Get close enough to shoot OR wait to hear the big bang, from the comfort of your camp and coffee, and know you got them?? 

Dilli

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## flandersander

I have a .22 caliber ruger and I love it! I have an infared 3-21 adjustable scope on it. Its SSOOOOOOO much fub hunting rabbits at night, they're everywhere. and to top it off the scope doesn't need batteries. any survivalist can hunt unlimited game with a scope like this.the only thing is though that i cost me 2000 bucks. I have one for my savage .243 center fire and you wouldn't believe how much esier hunting deer is with one of these. again $2000. but if you even go out in your backyard for half an hour, i bet you will see a couple rabbits.

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## flandersander

Survivorman? are you actually les stroud?

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## marberry

if you want improvised munitions , chemical bombs , incineration bombs , or any other such illegal explosive go to anarchistcookbook.com its actually what got me started on forums, i have a profile there with the same name.

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## trax

I used to get paid to blow up things, marcraft...we didn't go to war with someone and I missed it did we? You keep me posted of such things partner.

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## FVR

Marcraft also has an FBI file.  

They are watching you..............................

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## trax

> Marcraft also has an FBI file.  
> 
> They are watching you..............................


oh hell partner, I'm pretty sure our federalis are more than willing to share any relevant info on me with your federalis any time of the day...don't even worry about it anymore, LOL

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## Beo

Feds are always watching I'm sure, you stock up on large amounts of arms and ammo and they'll be raiding you next!!!! ATF (Another Team of Fuc*ups  :Big Grin: ) is always watching the purchase of firearms and ammo here in the states.

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## trax

Another Team of F****ps...man I laughed at that one. Another forum I've seen a guy had a tag line I liked...."alcohol tobacco and firearms should be a general store, not a department of the federal government"...

Dude you don't even want to know how restrictive gun laws are in this country  :Mad:

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## Beo

But crime is less there than in the States, I think. Every night I turn on the news here in Cincinnati, at least two people shot, several wounded or shot at, a stabbing at least, assault, and the city has no money. Inside two years we'll be another Detroit with nothing coming outta here but bad rap artist.
Last year the city (known here as Stanknatti)  alone 86 shooting deaths, over 300 shootings, 22 stabings, and God knows how many assaults, rapes, thefts, and break ins all armed, we broke our own records and that doesn't count the county as a whole.

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## marberry

lol i live in canada no Real feds here. and i have alot of connections through mensa so ill know if there watching me , and id be more then happy to chat with feds my uncle is cia lol. oh and beowulf i knew i heard that somewhere before , tell me if im wrong but i seem to remember it as the .50 caliber rifle round my grandpas AR-15 uses , is that where you got the name from?

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## Ole WV Coot

I have been shooting for over 50+ years and I can carry more 22 cal ammo than anything else so I use a Ruger 10/22 with a fixed 6 power scope and a Mark II. At home I have other stuff but for woods survival I will take the 22 and I personally like Ruger. I have the Mark II and Single Six both stainless. Mag snakeshot seems to work better, but I wouldn't bother myself. If I hit the hill behind the house with my ATV I probably would take my beloved Beretta Cougar 45. I don't need glasses with it to 20 or so yards nor with the scoped 10/22 in my humble opinion.

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## Sarge47

> I have been shooting for over 50+ years and I can carry more 22 cal ammo than anything else so I use a Ruger 10/22 with a fixed 6 power scope and a Mark II. At home I have other stuff but for woods survival I will take the 22 and I personally like Ruger. I have the Mark II and Single Six both stainless. Mag snakeshot seems to work better, but I wouldn't bother myself. If I hit the hill behind the house with my ATV I probably would take my beloved Beretta Cougar 45. I don't need glasses with it to 20 or so yards nor with the scoped 10/22 in my humble opinion.


Can always tell a man with taste.  Those two .22s are my guns of choice as well. :Wink:

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## Beo

Naw, Beowulf65: Beowulf is a book (epic poem, there ya go Trax) wrote in the 4th century by an unknown author about a Gail warrior killing serpents (dragons) the Grendal, being one of the 1st books ever written I used it when my 1st book got published and 65 is the year I was born in 1965. The nickname stuck and thats what people call me now when I'm trekking or hunting... Beowulf or Beo... pronounced "Bay-o-wulf" didn't really ask for it and don't really like it but thats what they call me so... oh well.

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## trax

> lol i live in canada no Real feds here.


You go right ahead and tell yourself that youngster....

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## Beo

Trax, bro... ya know he's 16, ain't seen the real world yet. No offense intended Marcraft.

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## survivalhike

Those who will give up freedom for safety deserve neither and will lose both.  There has never been a gun that decided one day to get up and go kill someone.  The person behind the gun is where the laws should focus, and not on the gun itself.  When the government bans guns, all the honest citizens turn theirs in, and the criminals keep them.  Have no illusions that any criminal is turning their guns in, or buying them from retail shops.  They buy them stolen, and it is the criminal that should be regulated (executed) not the gun.
     I live in Arizona and we can carry openly.  I also have a concealed carry permit, which I hardly use but I have exercised my right to have it.  There is far less gun related violence here than in other citys where guns are not legal to carry.  The criminals don't know if the person they are about to rob is going to turn around and shoot them.  I like that.

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## marberry

unfortunately in canada we arnt evn allowed to carry loaded guns , the best you can do legally is carry an empty pistol in a holster and have a loaded mag (more then 10 cap mag is illegal) in your pocket. and the gun has to be visible... the laws only take guns from honest citizens , giving criminals evn more power. and beo, none taken i know im less then half as old as most of you

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## HOP

I think the savage m24 in what ever chambering floats your boat is a great survival rifle, I would go with .22/.20Ga you can get some very powerful slugs in .20ga these days.

As far as battle rifles and what the goverment allows it might be that the reason you kneed the rifle is the goverment and .308 semi is my choice.
Even though I own several handguns I don't think they have a place way on top of the survival list of firearms  a big bore handgun 
's primary purpose is or should be to fight your way to your rifle I have a CCW and cary because a rifle or shotgun in public raises to many problems.

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## Beo

Also Marcraft, for being so young (damn half as old makes me sound really old.) you have alot of knowledge, I left that out the last post I did here.
My guns consist of .32 calibur flintlock (my sons but I use it for small game), .69 calibur flintlock for large game, Remington 700 chambered in the Winchester .300 magnum, 12 gauge Remington 870 ( I usually use Rotweiler 3 in. mags for deer, and shot for small game and duck, Ruger 10/22 with a cheap tasco scope (need to upgrade that oneday), an H&K USP .40, and my duty weapon a S&W .40. Also have a long bow (love it love it).
As for a survival firearm I think I'd use the 12 gauge and cross sling the Ruger on my back.
These are just my choices although plinking an enemy from about 70 to 100 yards away with my .69 flintlock would be interesting. :Big Grin: 
Beo,

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## marberry

yeah im probibially the only teenager on the earth who listens to bbc world whyle playing video games lol. and its not that your old im just young. and i know firearms regulations because my parents said i wasnt allowed to have any projectile weapon in the house so i looked up every possible way i could own a firearm without storing it in the house. im gona get my minors possession licience right after i take drivers ed. so i found a way for me to legally own a rifle or shotgun (only non-restricted firearms till im 18) the MPL allows you to own / store / transport a non-restricted firearm but not purchase it. so im gona have a friend of mine with a possession and acquisition license buy it and sign it over to me , then ill keep it at his place and take it when i want to use it , atleast untill i have a car then i can store it in the car as long as it is unloaded , locked , and not visible from outside the car. and a childhood friend of min is in angola right now so i keep tabs of the civil wars and politics in africa. and i spend about an hour every day researching things i dont know on the web (gota love the internet lol) and im planning on buying a compound bow for about $100 for grouse hunting to see if i want to bow hunt big game. iv alredy got my hunters education , trappers education , cfsc , and i took a hunting guide course a few months ago.

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## marberry

sorry bout 2X posting. so beo, im guessing you a big muzzleloader fan. never liked em much myself on account of the horrible recoil , range , ballistics they produce, but alot of people like the ruggedness of a muzzleloader and some just want the earlier deer seasons lol. do you have and advice on what bow would be good for upland game bird hunting for my (very) limited budget. and also what types of arrows / arrowheads i should buy?

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## Beo

I would go with a longbow, but thats just me, I like the light weight of the bow-shooting instinctively with no sights just using my eye. A good long bow can be had from all knids of places in Canada, just check them out real good but most bowyers won't rip you off. Arrows for longbow I'd use ceder shafts and zwiki broadheads for big game and stumpers for small game. Practice make perfect, so if you can take a rabbit or squirrel with a longbow then everything else should be fine.
As for compound bows I'm lost, my friends that use compound all use PSE and I know they're reliable. When I started bow hunting I started with a PSE compound and it was great (that was in 1987 see I am old lol) and they make great equipment hence the name:
P-Precision
S-Shooting
E-equipment
But I sold it about four years ago and been longbow ever since.
Beo,

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## marberry

ok then, do you know where i can get a longbow with 25+ lbs of draw weight for around $100? the only ones i see at sports stores are around $600...

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## kid_couteau

Hi All

I am currently in the Savage 24 area for survival rifles.

I like the adaptability of them.

Later
Kid

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## FVR

Think I just changed my mind.  Spent the morning chasing rabbits with a selfbow, darn things are fast.

Trading the 308 in for my mossberg shotgun.  Packing in slugs and 4 shot.  Slugs for deer, bear, and protection.  4 shot for small critters and flying dinners.

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## kid_couteau

What gauge is your Mossberg FVR?

Kid

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## FVR

12 guage of course.  Would need a wheel barrel for the rounds.

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## Beo

Try Bear Archery http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/
or pick up an issue of Traditional Archery Magazine they sell all types of longbows, there is also a longbw called the stick that is real good and sells cheap.
Also as Smok said in different thread you can make your own Atlatl:
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## Rick

I have a Ruger 10-22 with extra clips. I've modified the clip release to a longer one and I've changed the stock to one that is collapsible. But I held on to the original. I also pack a .38 wheel gun for the two legged varmints.

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## FVR

Better yet, vitist tradgang.coms classifieds.

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## Jay

> Meanwhile I also have an H & R 12 ga. single barrel shotgun, not to mention a Ruger Mark II .22 cal. pistol.


Sarge, I assume that by H&R you mean Harrington & richardson.   I too have an ancient H& R M48 topper  in 16 g.  Is the company still running?  I'd Like to have a date of manufacture on the gun but I cant find a H&R site that does so. I suspect this gun was manufactured around 1950 or so.

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## Sarge47

> Sarge, I assume that by H&R you mean Harrington & richardson.   I too have an ancient H& R M48 topper  in 16 g.  Is the company still running?  I'd Like to have a date of manufacture on the gun but I cant find a H&R site that does so. I suspect this gun was manufactured around 1950 or so.


I'm not sure what you're asking here.  My H & R was bought brand new over a year & a half ago from Wal-Mart back when they were still selling firearms. (Wal_Mart recently quit all sale of Fire-Arms in many of their stores.)  I was thinking that H & R was owned by another company.  I'll check it out and get back to you. :Cool:

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## Sarge47

OK, Harrington & Richardson is affiliated with the Marlin Firearms Company.  Here's there Home web-site:

http://www.hr1871.com/

I Googled "Harrington & Richardson & came up with a bunch of stuff.  Hope you find what you need!  Good Hunting! :Wink:

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## Jay

> OK, Harrington & Richardson is affiliated with the Marlin Firearms Company.  Here's there Home web-site:
> 
> http://www.hr1871.com/
> 
> I Googled "Harrington & Richardson & came up with a bunch of stuff.  Hope you find what you need!  Good Hunting!



Thanks Sarge!  will check it out.

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## carcajou garou

Remington has bought out Marlin, H&R, NEF. The home pages may be relocated till they settle in maybe under one banner?

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## Jay

> Remington has bought out Marlin, H&R, NEF. The home pages may be relocated till they settle in maybe under one banner?


Thanks.  Hope thay dont destroy the old records.

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## canid

for a pack rifle i have a rossi model 62 carbine. it's a .22lr in a pump action and takes down to 20"

i used to carry a 10/22 carbine and was thrilled when the clinton semi-auto assault waepon bill expired as it allowed me to put a folding stock on it, making it more compact for pack carry [as if this might be some terrorist act].

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## sh4d0wm4573ri7

22 long rifle is the classic but also have backup 12g 870  , Rem 700 30.06 , bolt 22 long and have been playing with an RWS for few years now also nicce guns they are ,,,

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## Rick

Man, how are you going to carry all that? Are you farming out to other family members? I have several other pieces that I would hand out to my sons and my son-in-law, some with more stopping power, but the two I stated above is what I'd carry, especially if I was alone.

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## cyc79

I have a charter arms AR7 & ruger 77/22 stainless.The AR7 is finicky on ammo but tried different brands till I found what mine liked best for accuracy & minimal jamming.I'd go with my ruger though as I'm more comfortable with it.I'd have to go with it & leave the centerfires behind as in my area small critters would be what make the most meals.

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## RBB

> I plan on getting an m6 airforce rifle.
> 
> I whas wondering what rifles everyone had or which one you're planning on getting?


Are you interested in hunting rifles or pack guns?

For pack guns, I have a beautiful early 1900s 4/10 break open single shot 4/10, a Mossburg 4/10 bolt that is so old and rusty I don't care what becomes of it, a Remington slide action .22 take down (with takedowncase), a Model 12 Winchester short (18 inch) barrel 12 ga, and two Savage slide action 12 gages with 18 inch barrels, one from the 1920s, one from the 1950s.

I had one of those M-6 survival rifles when I was a kid (though I had to check it out on the web to see what you were talking about).  Never thought much of it.  It was kind of a marginal gun for hitting anything.  Appears to be still available through Springfield Armory.

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## chopp29

Hey anyone know how accurate the SPRINGFIELD M6 SCOUT RIFLE is?

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## chopp29

I was doing some searching and came across this, I didnt hear anyone mention the Kel-Tec SU-16, if anyone wants to check it out                     

http://www.equipped.org/Kel-Tec_SU-16_Review.htm

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## marberry

that Kel-Tec SU-16 , thats an assault carbine not a survival rifle. really bloody cool though , whats the price ?, are they legal in canada? , and where can i get one?


i say .22's make the best survival rifles if not for the single fact  that there ammunition is so small and light . id hate to carry around a few hundred, 30-06 , 7mm , 7.62x39mm, .308 , or .50 cal shells

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## chopp29

Well the bravo model is only 4.6 lbs, it does fold up and fits into a backpack, might not be your conventinal survival rifle. 2 spare mags also fit into the stock check out the link if you havent already           http://www.equipped.org/Kel-Tec_SU-16_Review.htm    and here is where you can get one   http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/su16d.html   this particular link is for the model SU-16D which is even more compact, shorter barrel and more tactical. It runs about $874.00

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## Sam

Here is the place BatCat sent me. 
http://www.bodermansports.com/Firearms/Springfield_Armory/M6_scout.hmtl"]http://lithingshttp://www.bodermansports.com/Firear.../M6_scout.hmtl[/URL]
 I hope this works, these are new rifles. I ordered one in .22/.410 parkerized.

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## chopp29

I copied this drectly from the website, this is info, stats, and prices of all there models.
SU-16 and PLR-16 Family of Firearms: The 16's are self-loading firearms for the 5.56mm NATO or .223 Remington cartridge. They accept standard M-16 and AR-15 magazines. 
  SU-16A Rifle: The "Alpha" model is the base model rifle with an 18.5 inch barrel and a built in folding bipod. The stock can be folded under the rifle for compact storage. 
  SU-16B Rifle: The "Bravo" model has all the features of the base model as well as a lightweight 16 inch barrel, and aluminum front and rear sights. 
  SU-16C Rifle: The "Charlie" model has a true folding stock that is capable of being fired while the stock is in the folded position. The 16 inch barrel is threaded 1/2-28 at the muzzle. An integral dust cover and case deflecting operating handle is also included. All major parts are parkerized on the SU-16C model. 
  SU-16CA Rifle: The SU-16CA Is a hybrid of the SU-16C and SU-16A, Most of the features of the C model are retained. The SU-16CA is equipped with the standard stock of the SU-16A rather than the folding stock of the C model. This allows for it to be purchased in most states that still have an "assault weapons ban" . 
  SU-16D Rifle: The "Delta" rifle is available in two models. the SU-16D9 and SU-16D12 Have the same folding stock as the SU16C and will include a compact forend with a Picatinny accessory rail built in under the barrel. The SU-16D12 has the longer 12 inch barrel for higher velocity and will also be able to accept a standard M-9 bayonet, or more appropriately, our new light weight, Kel-Tec folding bayonet. Both the SU-16D9 and SU-16D12 are NFA regulated as a short barrel rifle. 
  PLR-16 Pistol: The PLR-16 is a gas operated, semi-automatic pistol chambered in 5.56 mm NATO caliber. It was designed as and is intended as a long-range target and hunting pistol. 

Heres the link...............    http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/products.html

Like I said never owned one but I think that delta model wouldnt make to bad of a survival rifle, small, compact, NATO rounds, Accepts all AR-15 and M-16 style mags, they even make a pistol type called the PLR-16. The delta model even has a bayonet attachment.

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## Sam

> One shot
> 
> One Kill
> 
> Swift Silent & Deadly
> 
> 
> 
> I can make a bow, arrows, and arrowheads from rocks and wood in my backyard.


 Slow Shaky & Deaf, thats me nowadays  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Sourdough

I pretty much carry a custom Rock River AR-15 in 6.8 SPC (.277 Cal.) most all the time. I build 7 round Magazines that stick out about 3/8" from the Mag. well. And throw one 15rd mag in each back pocket.

But I just got there .308 so I'll walk it about when the fuzzy's come out.

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## Sourdough

Anyone reloading the heavier bullets in their 6.8 SPC. I have only been using the 110 to 115 gr. bullets.

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## marberry

unfortunatially the ar 15 - m 16 and all variants are illegal in canada since there 'assault rifles'

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## crashdive123

Hopeak:  I think you're gonna like that .308.  Little fuzzies might not, but ....

Rcently fired SOCOM II.  Liked it.  A bit pricey, but maybe some day.

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## pgvoutdoors

> planning on geting the  Beretta RX4 STORM complete synopsis below
> 
> 
> The most advanced semi-automatic rifle ever designed  Special purpose emphasizes individual performance with multiple stock configurations, ergonomic adjustment and ambidexterous controls  ARGO (Auto Regulating Gas Operation) system  Comes standard with reversible cross-bolt safety & ambidexterous bolt release  Reversible magazine release  Sold with 2 stock configurations and a third fixed, pistol grip stock is available (extra purchase required)  5-position telescoping stock allows for adjustment in length of pull  "Sporter"-style stock version for a more traditional feel  Ghost ring sights with protective ears adjustable for windage and elevation  10-round magazine, plugged to 5 and will also accept optional 30-round magazines  9 sling attachments points  Technopolymer design for quick disassmebly that requires no tools  Caliber: .223 Rem.
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


I've shot the HK MP5 (9mm) and the HK 94 (9mm civilian, long barrel version).  I wonder how they compare to the Berreta and how the 40 S&W version performs.  Anyone ever shoot a 40 S&W carbine before?  *Beretta Cx4 Carbine*
 Stormhttp://www.berettausa.com/product/pr...ifles_main.htm

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## Sam

I've shot .45acp smgs, and carbines. I Own lever rifles in .357mag., 9mmP, .45acp,
and .44mag I've had since when I was a kid. have  pistols to match very handy. I like a lever action for hunting in dense brush. Gotta love the interchangeability.

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## snurtle112

i have a ar-10 dpms .300 RSAUM with 24in barrel silenced.thats a reach out and touch someone rifle.for urban enviroment i have my ar-15 with eotech nightvision and i carry daily my glock 30 which is .45 acp.i would be terrified to try and stop a treat with a .22. just make the threat more pissed IMO :EEK!:

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## Rick

Man, all this heavy artillery. I understand the need in bear or even mountain lion country for protection. I can even see it for hunting. But I sure don't understand it for survival. Not that I want to damage any misconceptions, but there are a few things in life I don't understand. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## snurtle112

well we got ALOT of bear and cougar around here.i mean i can TRY and kill the bear with my .223 but i think he might just get pissed and eat me.PLUS think how long a bear will last for food.as long as you bring a couple freezers  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Beo

I've shot the High Point 9mm and .40 carbine and its actually really nice, the Kel-Tec is okay but cheap and jams, the Beretta Cx4 Strom is in .40 is pretty sweet but I can't afford it right now but would be good home protection. He tested it and its really nice, with a hellfire or starfire trigger you can get three round burst and that's a hoot. The Cx4 Strom was by far the best but the High Point .40 carbine was better priced and came in second in our testing. The Kel-Tec was shaky and poorly made and we had jams and stove pipes (bullets stuck in ejection port) every 10 to 15 rounds. The High Point they beat the crap out of and never cleaned it, after 150 rounds and being submerged in a mud puddle for 10 minutes it fired without being cleaned great and never jam'd once.
Beo,

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## Beo

> Man, all this heavy artillery. I understand the need in bear or even mountain lion country for protection. I can even see it for hunting. But I sure don't understand it for survival. Not that I want to damage any misconceptions, but there are a few things in life I don't understand.


I agree RRRRRRRRRRRRick, for me in survival its my Ruger .22 or my flinter. :Big Grin:

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## Rick

Yeah, my Ruger 10-22 will get me all the food I can handle and even make folks duck for cover in a lead catching contest. Folks can use whatever they like but I'll carry a lot for 22 longs than they can the 7.62, 223, 105mm stuff. :Big Grin:

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## Sourdough

Canada Question???? Can you'all own the Ruger "Ranch Rifle" or the Remington Model 750 which replaced the model 7400, and 740?????

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## carcajou garou

Yes Rugers, Remingtons are legal, as well as many self loaders in general, limited by detachable magasine capacity of 5rds. 
Certain rifles such as the AR series are on a restricted list, legal but controlled in acquisition, use, storage etc...
Other are on the "prohibited" list even more constrained.

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## Beo

Comes in 9mm and .40 cal for about $260.00 balck or camo finish
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*Barrel length:* 17.5"
*Overall length:* 32.5 "
*Weight:* 7 lbs. 
*Stock:* All-weather polymer 
*Finishes offered:* Black, Camo 
*Capacity:* 10-shot magazine standard 
*Sights:* Fully-adjustable
All Hi-Point carbines feature: 
Scope mounts 
Sling and swivels 
Grip mounted clip release 
Quick on-off thumb safety
Operations safety sheet
Free trigger lock
Lifetime warranty
100% American-made, parts and assembly
Here's an Optional stock that looks like the Cx4 Storm
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## Sourdough

I feel high capacity magazines are a joke for day in day out Non-Military work. Maybe great for spray and pray military suppression work. The Ruger "ranch Rifle" in the new 6.8 SPC or the 7.62X39 is a great firearm, with the best scope base system on the planet earth. I would guess that the Ruger Ranch Rifle is the number one snowmachine firearm here.

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## Beo

My favorite rifle is the SOCOM... just gotta raise th money, fired it and its sweet baby.
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## Sam

Don't get me wrong, I own a few firearms. If I go canoing or hiking it is my AR-7 I pack.
If I'm in the woods it will feed me. I don't carry everyday, not that scared and pistols are to much like remote controls with the world's biggest OFF switch.

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## Sourdough

> My favorite rifle is the SOCOM... just gotta raise th money, fired it and its sweet baby.
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Enjoy packing that tank, great firearm, awsome track record for function and reliability. And it would be my choice for a battle application. But for my daily 5 to 8 mile walkabouts, playing Kissee face with Mr. Fuzzy, I want something lighter, smaller, and easier to carry, and still using the 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester).

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## Beo

I see your point and agree, my flintlock (although its 61 inches long) always goes just bcause I love it so much.

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## carcajou garou

Hey Hopeak, what about a Rem mod 7 synthetic in .308win, I have a Rem ADL syn in .308win a smidgen bigger but still easy to carry.

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## chopp29

beowulf have you shot are considered the springfield m1a scout squad version. when I was overseas i carried the scout and loved it, our unit had recieved about 3 of the socoms, tryed it for a bit but went back to the scout. Dont get me wrong the Socom is also a very fine weapon. They both weigh in at 9.3 lbs if im not mistaken, but im sure as you know Socom has shortly shorter barrel. I guess for me I just liked the feel of the Scout better. I know its personal preference, but check it out.     http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=38

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## Sourdough

> Hey Hopeak, what about a Rem mod 7 synthetic in .308win, I have a Rem ADL syn in .308win a smidgen bigger but still easy to carry.


carcajou garou, Good question: I am going to answer it, But I am going to start a new thread. Because a Survival gun is enough different than a walk'about gun to warrent a new thread. But the answer is yes, good choice.

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## Beo

Chopp, yes I have and I like mini14 also all fine shooters.
Here's my Mini14
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## chopp29

Hey beowulf did you get my post mixed up with some one elses i suggested the springfield M1A scout sqaud.....Are am I the confussed one?....lol

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## Beo

No i said: yes I have (to the scout) and I also like the mini 14.
At least that is what I meant.

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## chopp29

Ahhh got it man. Yes I agree also on the mini-14, I have one I bought a few years back the mini-14 that is and i love it. About 6 months ago I put a houge stock on it. very nice rifle, and like you when I can save up the cash to buy my own i think im gonna go for the M1a scout. Also a quick question for you. I saw a good while back in some magazine I was reading that one of the AR type rifle makers came out with a new model in .308. I could have sworn it was bushmaster but i just looked on there site and didnt see it. Do you know who makes it? Im about to move back to Louisiana in 68 days, ETS from the Army. And im going to be getting back into Boar hunting. And in La there are no rules on what type of rifle you can use to hunt them, are a season for that matter. I was thinking a good .308 cal in the AR style of rifle till I can afford the M1A. Any input on that?

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## Beo

Not sure who makes it I'll look, I did some boar hunting in Tennessee with my Remington 700 chambered in the Winchester .300 mag and took down a 250lb. boar with a single shot, Its a bolt action but well worth it.

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## Beo

Is this it?
Panther LR-308
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=14

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## Sourdough

Chopp 29, I think what you are thinking about is the ROCK RIVER LAR-8. Which is a .308 on a AR platform. They just started shipping after 3 years of delays. And I had one on order for years, and got the first one shipped to Alaska last week. We weighed the gun, it is 8 pounds 2 oz. 

They use a two stage match trigger. Mine breaks at 3.6 pounds with no creep. I put a 30MM Leupold 1X-4X European scope with German #4 reticle on with Leupold long leaver quick release (QRW)rings. You can look it up at www.rockriverarms.com

I picked up a Rock River AR-15 in in 6.8 SPC that I had custom built; and it came at the same time. I have two other AR-15 in 6.8 SPC that are Bushmasters. I have a AR-15 pistol in 6.8 SPC special ordered with a 10" barrel.

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## marberry

well i bought a rly expensive ring so i couldnt afford the baretta... >_< ... planning on buying a M-14S 'G.I.Rifle' .308 semi-automatic from marstar for $400 instead. atleast if i can convince my friends dad to buy it  (i have an MPAL so i cant actually buy) and sign it over to me.

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## Rick

What's an MPAL?

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## carcajou garou

P= possession
A= acquisition
L= license 

M= maybe a grandfather clause of pre-existing ownership of a certain type of firearm which is now controlled even further?

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## Sourdough

O.K. I might be way out of line here (not rare event), And things may be different in other country's. However after many years in the firearms business, I am guessing that we are dancing around here is what the BATF&E calls a straw transfer. Good for 10 years of free room and board. However I admit it is done regularly, and not enforced.

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## Lost Lebowski

The thread says "survival Rifle" Are we talking a rifle for defence like in disaster scenarios? Or Wilderness survival? or back country (MY OPINION ONLY) If I personally could only have one firearm for BOTH self defence/home defence and wilderness defence and hunting a shotgun is the only firearm that serves all these purposes...every one! You can take game from small birds and rabbits to Elephant and everything between. And as an Army MP and former auxillary policeman I was always taught by tactical trainers and range NCO's that for entry and home defence a 12 ga (usually with 00buck) is better even than a sub machine gun or assualt rifle. Although this may only be my humble opinion. I'd bet my life if you google say best all around hunting and suvival rifle most PH and alaska guides for instence will advocate for a 12 gauge.

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## Sourdough

Wow a PH what about APHA?

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## marberry

mpal is a minors posession lilcence , means im not allowed to buy guns. though my grandpa has an old 7mm sniper from the korean war and he has a special grandfather clause for it , he said that when he gives it to me id get the special clause on my licence to. marstar tells you about all the diff licences

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## Sourdough

Glad they did not have that when I was a young'in. Bought my first two guns when I was 9 years old with my paper route money. That was a good time to be a young man on a dairy farm. Not a good time to be a farm varmint.

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## Riverrat

I was wondering if any of you have tried out the 22 mag, I have a Marlin bolt action which I love. It is light, you can carry as much ammo as u want, and it has good knock down power if you can shoot half decent. I have seen good size deer knocked with them. I am currently looking at a lever action 22 mag, 11 shot chamber, nice looknig rifle.

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## Rick

I have a Ruger Single Six that has a 22 mag. cylinder. It's not bad shooting at all. I prefer the longs over the mag., though.

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## Sourdough

I have a five .22 Magnums. And if the the big Fuzzy's are sleeping it is my favorite winter carry firearm.

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## kx250kev

I bought the CX4 Storm rifle in 9mm.  Loved it so much that I bought the .40 cal version also.  (Besides, the .40 cal packs about the same punch as a .357 at 100 yards.)  Both are very accurate, light and fun to shoot.  Of all the short-long guns I own (AK47,M4,.30 carbine), I like these lightweight Storms the best!

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## crashdive123

Hey kx250kev - when you get a chance how bout shootin over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself.  You can find it here http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

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## commoguy

i apologize for bringing back an almost month old thread im just curious to know why so many choose a .22 for a backpacking rifle personally id use a mini 14.  its has larger animal knockdown, comparative mag capacity, plenty accurate, and not really all that heavy (7lbs), ammo is pretty cheap.

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## canid

when you don't need a larger cartridge it's a better space and weight saver. i used to do a lot of hiking in the wilds of idaho's panhandle and my 10/22 kept me good company every time.

my rossi model 62SAC weighs about 4 lb, ammo weight hardly comes into play with such small cartridges, will take me a critter or two, will put off nearly any predator in a pinch. unless i'm hunting large game, i don't have any need for more.

mini 14 is a great rifle, but that's a 2+ extra lb in your hands all day when you might not have any need for it. it comes down to preference and what you're expecting i suppose.

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## klkak

After much thought on the matter I've desided that the best survival type gun for me is a Remington 870 12g. I have an 18" cyl. bore bbl on it. I carry 5 Brenneke Blackmagic slugs, 5 3" 00 buckshot, 15 2 3/4" #8's, 15 2 3/4" #6's and 4 signal flares. It will do most anything I need it to do here in Alaska.

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## beerrunner13

> After much thought on the matter I've desided that the best survival type gun for me is a Remington 870 12g. I have an 18" cyl. bore bbl on it. I carry 5 Brenneke Blackmagic slugs, 5 3" 00 buckshot, 15 2 3/4" #8's, 15 2 3/4" #6's and 4 signal flares. It will do most anything I need it to do here in Alaska.


I would say that is a very good combo

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## commoguy

> when you don't need a larger cartridge it's a better space and weight saver. i used to do a lot of hiking in the wilds of idaho's panhandle and my 10/22 kept me good company every time.
> 
> my rossi model 62SAC weighs about 4 lb, ammo weight hardly comes into play with such small cartridges, will take me a critter or two, will put off nearly any predator in a pinch. unless i'm hunting large game, i don't have any need for more.
> 
> mini 14 is a great rifle, but that's a 2+ extra lb in your hands all day when you might not have any need for it. it comes down to preference and what you're expecting i suppose.


i dont know i guess id rather lug the weight of a larger cartridge not need it than need it and not have it.  two lbs. to me is rather neglible but i guess thats b/c im used to carrying a ruck and my m-16.

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## Ole WV Coot

Seems most of us like the Ruger 10/22, but back to your question. I would choose it because of the quantity of ammo I could carry and in my part of the country a well placed shot will work if you are a decent hunter. A couple of extra mags and if you want less noise pick up a plastic soda bottle, stick it over the barrel, no shortage of those in the woods. I use a handgun 99% of the time and the bull barrel Mark II is a tack driver. I also like the Ruger single six. I am a '45cal person but using all options I vote for the 22.

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## Rick

12 gauge signal flares? I didn't even know they made them. I googled it and it looks like they make flares in .45 ACP and some other calibers as well. Has anyone actually used one and if so how well do they work?

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## Sourdough

> 12 gauge signal flares? I didn't even know they made them. I googled it and it looks like they make flares in .45 ACP and some other calibers as well. Has anyone actually used one and if so how well do they work?


I have used the 12 gauge flares for about 40 years. They do not go very high, and they do not burn but a short time. They don't weigh much, and don't take up much space. If someone is looking for you they help.

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## beerrunner13

I have, they work ok.  Like Hopeak said if some one is looking for you they are good to have.  And they scare the crap out of unwanted geusts

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## klkak

Very true Hopeak. In a pinch you can use them to start a fire also. Although it can be a bit dangerous.

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## Ole WV Coot

> 12 gauge signal flares? I didn't even know they made them. I googled it and it looks like they make flares in .45 ACP and some other calibers as well. Has anyone actually used one and if so how well do they work?


 :EEK!:  :EEK!:  I don't think I could be comfy with a mag of those things in my carry gun with an IWB holster. Can you buy asbestos undies???

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## Rick

From what I read, the pistol flares are fired by the primer only and don't have any powder in them. So it won't cycle an automatic.

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## Easyrhino

Lucky you, Only air rifles are legal out here.

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## Alpine_Sapper

> I don't think I could be comfy with a mag of those things in my carry gun with an IWB holster. Can you buy asbestos undies???


Nah, but you can get fire retardant undies. I think the link was in the thread on sleeping bags.

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## Ken

If I has to select 1 - just 1 - survival rifle, it would be my AK-47 with the double wide magazine.  Not as accurate as most American fielded weapons, but incredibly reliable under conditions which prohibit regular cleaning and maintenence.  It packs a helluva punch and, with the 30 rd mag (you can get drum mags for 100 rds) you have some serious firepower.  I've spoken with a few SF guys who agree with me on this.  The AK has won a number of on-line surveys in this regard as well.  Submerge it in water, drag it through mud, roll it in sand, and it will still fire.  Can't say that about my shotguns (Beerrunner13 - I love my 870, too) or any of the others I own.

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## marberry

i just recently got a Diana model 24 airgun and it freaking rocks, besides the fact that it takes so long to reload its so much better then a .22 . the ammo weighs nothing and costs less the a cent each and the rifle is so quiet you cant hear it through a wall. the accuracy at 20 feet is as good as any .22 iv ever shot. shoulda got a pellet rifle earlier.

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## Sourdough

marcraft, It pains me to agree with you about the,  "Air gun freaking rocks", however they do have there application. And they are suppressed sound. And congratulations on your successful adventure.

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## trax

That's great at 20 feet, what about at 20 to 50 yards? I'm just asking, I've never used an air rifle, don't think I'm about to start.

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## Rick

Actually, they can lay the hide open at 20-30 yards. Back when I was young and foolish (foolisher? shrug) my comrades and I held BB gun wars. 3 or 4 on a side. Dumb yes but I laid a kids neck open at about 30 yards with one. We were all lucky no one lost an eye.

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## trax

OK, Rick, not to be flogging a dead horse here, buuuut...were you aiming for his neck?

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## Ken

Would Rick do that? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Rick

I was about 9 or so. I doubt I was aiming at anything but his general direction.

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## crashdive123

They made BB guns back then??

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## Rick

Yeah. We dropped molten copper from a tall tower and let it cool into a solid round ball as it fell.

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## trax

> Yeah. We dropped molten copper from a tall tower and let it cool into a solid round ball as it fell.


That's probably how he hit the kid.

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## Ole WV Coot

Daisy actually made a BB gun when I was a kid, could have been a prototype. I learned poaching early with that gun. Me and this other fool would throw corn out and hide in an old barn and shoot quail at the great distance of at least 8ft. That day it became clear, why walk up and down a hill with a pointer and maybe get 2 or 3 birds per 2 miles of briars when I could do much better thru a crack in an old barn.

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## Ken

Were they quail or just some poor farmers hens?

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## Ole WV Coot

> Were they quail or just some poor farmers hens?


Nope, quail and tasty also. Head shot at about 8ft. We did real well until Daddy found out how we were getting them. He happened to raise pointers at that time. We had all sorts of ways to get game, none of them legal of course. :Big Grin:

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## Sourdough

If it came to strictly survival, and all I had was a good quality pellet Gun, I could get fat just off the spruce hens (a kind of very stupid grouse), squirrels, hares, ravens (I love my ravens, but if we are talking survival), and king salmon (head shoot them in the shallows), that live in the back yard.

But I would rather just use the .22 with CB caps. They are quiet, and deadly. But it could be done with a good pellet Gun.

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## marberry

i got 1 inch shot groupings at 30 yards with target pellets (domed , more accurate then pointed hunting) thinking bout geting the power up'd from 700fps to 1100fps or so, of course then id have to register it , and i couldn't shoot it at night, and i couldnt shoot it in the city, and id have to buy a gunsafe (i dont trust trigger locks or gun cases even though i have 2 of each lol) nvm lol its fine at 700. it came with awesome sights (it better come with bloody awesome sights it cost me $230 + tax) so i tried to shoot it at 100 yards , no good that far but it shot prety fair at 50. wouldnt trust it to have enough force for a coyote or turkey at that range. heres a link to where i bought it from i got the .177 cal version


http://www.wholesalesports.com/onlin...ory=1401019001

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## lastboyscout

They make a air shotgun that is available as well. Would be cool.

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/gamo-sha...ir-rifle.shtml

They have lots of other air guns as well. Most are not aware that Lewis and Clark used a air gun for their adventure across America. No powder to carry.


http://www4.vmi.edu/museum/air_rifle.html 

Wish you could get a modern version of this.Napoleon killed the air rifle.

I also like the .22 magnum as a round. Still light and small to carry (yes I know more expensive) but hits pretty hard out of a rifle. I have a Rossi Take down that is cool just wish it was in magnum not LR. I have a Timberwolf take down .357 that is cool as well and can shoot the cheaper .38 special as well. They have not been made for some time. I have alot of guns but just wanted to put in a little as well. 

Before Winchester had it's problem they were going to make a take down lever gun but never did. That would have been cool.

Thanks

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