# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  winter gardening

## your_comforting_company

Wednesday I planted my winter crop. I'm just curious how many of you folks grow greens during the colder months. Mustards, collards, turnips, rudabagas, all are frost hardy plants that thrive during our colder growing season when bugs are less a nuisance. My summer crops add nutrients to the soil that my winter crops use, and in turn they add nutrients that the summer crops need.

I'm also curious how much weight you guys put on planting/harvesting by the almanac. The moon and signs were perfect on wednesday for planting root crops, so that was the day I chose, even after working all day, then working hides that evening. I use the almanac to plant and harvest and store my crops, religiously.

thanks for all inputs in advance. I know a lot of you live in colder climates and might not have a winter growing season, but heck, my aunt lives in alaska and she grows food until the coldest part of winter, so I'd like to hear from anyone else that does too.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Thanks for the reminder. I have some collards still growing for over a year at my old house they flowered this summer. Think there is any hope of transplanting them at my new home or should I just grow some more from seed?

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## Rick

My winter crop usually goes in the ground in late August. We've already had a couple of hard freezes in Indiana and most of my plants have had the tops frozen. I'll be cleaning the rest out of the garden this week. Not much grows below freezing. 

As to the almanac, yes, I have an affection for it. My grandfather and father always planted it by it but I don't. The only thing I truly keep sacred is planting my lettuce, spinach and radishes on Valentine's Day. Even if snow is on the ground the seed gets scattered.

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## your_comforting_company

> Thanks for the reminder. I have some collards still growing for over a year at my old house they flowered this summer. Think there is any hope of transplanting them at my new home or should I just grow some more from seed?


I've never tried moving them, I usually just till them under for summer crops. If they flowered though, you should be able to collect the seeds and just start new plants. 

A tip for transplanting, is to keep as much of the dirt around the root as possible. that helps reduce the shock of the plant and won't break off the tiny 'hair roots' that are in there. when I transplant non-garden type plants I do it in Libra and have had a fair amount of success, even with trees.

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## TucsonMax

We just planted: carrots, lettuce, peas and brocoli.  Well, that's what you plant down here, in the winter.

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## canid

there are only a couple weeks here most years with really hard frosts.

till then, i've got in spinach, chard, basil, etc.

i want to put more in but i haven't got much soil ready in my new place.

i run crops any time i can.

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## Chris

wish I could garden in winter, but snow measured in feet destroys that notion

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## finallyME

Yeah, what can I grow in snow?  Besides yellow snow cones.

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## crashdive123

Indoor herb garden, or if your have the room, some indoor container gardening or hydroponics.

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## Rick

Carrots do really well indoors. Tomatoes do crappy, though.

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## cowgirlup

> wish I could garden in winter, but snow measured in feet destroys that notion


Yeah.. i noticed that too!

I still have carrots, turnips and parsnips in the garden.  But then it's over until I start plants inside in the spring.

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## your_comforting_company

well... I've got 3" sprouts and no call for snow. 
for those of you that do get snow, I found this simply as a suggestion. We dont have any real reason for greenhouses this far south, as there are plants that grow well here during the cold months. That said, the only recommendation I may add to the information, is to build it higher than the estimated snow depth, and use black material on the walls to absorb heat. Some of you guys live so far north that even this won't help. My aunt lives in AK and 3 months of very little sunlight doesn't bode well with any plant.

I know, I know... building things costs money, but if you build one, you could probably save that much in a few years by offsetting the cost of groceries.
One other thing to think about ... your garden space (mine is 50 x 50 feet) is now measured vertically.

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## Canadian-guerilla

> Indoor herb garden, or if your have the room, some indoor container gardening or hydroponics.



i've always wanted to try something small inside ( veggies )
would regular sunlight from a window be enough
or would i need some of those special hydroponic lights ?

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## Swamprat1958

I planted a combination of kale, rape and turnip greens about 8 weeks ago.  They came up great, but the deer are working them over.  I have never had herbivory problems before, but I am not sure I will even get one meal of this 40' x 60' garden.

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## cowgirlup

> I planted a combination of kale, rape and turnip greens about 8 weeks ago.  They came up great, but the deer are working them over.  I have never had herbivory problems before, but I am not sure I will even get one meal of this 40' x 60' garden.


Shoot the deer...instant meal and many more!!!

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## Rick

CG, in most cases, no. There isn't enough sunlight unless you have a large south facing window. Some garden vegetables do really well indoors and some don't. You can plant things like carrots in a container in the spring and then bring the container in when a chance of frost is forecast. I had carrots all winter long last year and will be bring them in this year within the next couple of weeks. 

Winter sun is really low in the sky and I think that has a huge affect on garden plants grown indoors. Just my opinion, however.

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## rwc1969

Airflow is usually a problem too. I used 48" cool white flourescent shop lights to grow muskmelon and tomatos. The plants grew fine but never produced fruit. Presumably because there were no bees to pollenate them??

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## Rick

That would be my guess. You can use Q-tips to replace the bees and manually pollinate the plants.

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## canid

that's a tricky question that depends on several things.

did the tomatoes flower? how long did the flowers remain on the plant?

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## crashdive123

CG - I've only done herbs indoors, and light through the window was fine for it.

rwc - you probably have to do as Rick suggested and manually pollinate the plants.

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## canid

window gardening is great for herbs that only need 6-8 hours per day. i should take my basil in soon. the decreased light should make it stop trying to hard to flower, and it seems to be a warm weather variety. lows of no less than 50 and it's already starting to suffer foliar problems.

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## rwc1969

Thanks Rick and Crash, and canid they did get flowers.

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## Canadian-guerilla

thanks Rick and Crash




> CG - I've only done herbs indoors, and light through the window was fine for it.



i'm open for herbs suggestions . . . . 

do herbs need a John Belushi " bee " imitation ?

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## crashdive123

Nah.  Not for the herbs.  You're using the leaves not waiting on fruit to be produced.  I found several vids on hand pollinating.  Plants like tomatoes can be done a bit differently.  This looks a lot easier than a q-tip or little brush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bueCLH3u7vM

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## Rick

Not unless you are wanting to collect seeds. The herb, in many cases, is the plant. You are just snipping off some to use in your cooking/food. If you want to collect seed to plant again next year then you would have to treat it the same as any flowering plant.

EDIT - Oops. We posted together.

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## crashdive123

Good point on the seeds.

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## Rick

Oh, and you don't want a hybrid herb plant if you plan to collect seeds. Most hybrids produce infertile seeds. You'll need an heirloom plant.

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## Swamprat1958

> Shoot the deer...instant meal and many more!!!


I plan to turn my 11 year old loose on them, but my wife claims she doesn't  like him hunting in the backyard.  I think that is just an excuse - she can't stand the smell of greens cooking!

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## NightShade

> Oh, and you don't want a hybrid herb plant if you plan to collect seeds. Most hybrids produce infertile seeds. You'll need an heirloom plant.


or wild ones

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## your_comforting_company

I gotta take some pictures of this...
the mustard greens I planted in the garden for winter look *almost exactly* like the wild field mustards I've been finding in fields everywhere. Strikes the question "why do men labor over food that is provided in nature?"

why did people "domesticate" a wild plant that grows so heartily on it's own, while it's domestic cousin requires weeding, fertilizing, tilling, etc. I know where an old peanut field is that must be 100 acres and right now is full from fence to fence with wild field mustards. My mustards required a lot of work and will still require more as the grass and weeds (feels wierd to call any plant a weed now) sprout.

do any of you northerners keep a greenhouse? and what plants do you grow in it?

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## crashdive123

> why did people "domesticate" a wild plant that grows so heartily on it's own


IMO so that we can grow what we want, where we want, when we want.  Same reason livestock is raised rather than out hunting for wild game.  Over time we (as a society) have made the collective decision to put our time to other (some would argue better) use.

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## Rick

I don't have a greenhouse but why are you weeding? I haven't weeded a garden, with the exception of one or two strays once in a while, in several years. Mulch it. I use a bagging mower and all the grass goes into my garden as a mulch. I rarely have any weeds.

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## your_comforting_company

Nut Grass (Chufa) will invade anywhere that soil is disturbed, as will crab grass. my garden is about 50 x 50 feet and would require a LOT of mulch. I can till between the rows and then pull the competetive plants that grow in the row by hand. I tried mulching a few years ago and wound up with more weeds than if I had left it alone. No bagging mower and even then grass seed would be a problem mixed in with the clippings. remember we have a 12 month growing season down here  :Wink: . if a seed hits the ground it's gonna grow, even in winter.
buying mulch isn't an option for me and I don't know anyone personally who has a bagger mower.

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## Rick

Point taken. I generally have several inches of mulch so grass seed really isn't a problem. About the only thing I have trouble with are the da**ed chipmunks. They steal corn from the neighbors and bring it over and plant it in my garden. I wouldn't mind so much if they knew how to plant in a straight row but they dump a whole mouthful in one hole.

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## your_comforting_company

Pa used to say a straight row wouldn't grow anything so I make sure (not intentionally haha) that my rows have a crook in them  :Wink:

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## woodsy_gardener

> buying mulch isn't an option for me and I don't know anyone personally who has a bagger mower.


I'm blessed with an abundance of forest mulch so I haven't tried it but many gardeners recommend lasagna gardening. Great if you have a cheap source of cardboard. Scatter whatever organic material you have (leaves, hay, compost) and cover it with card board. Separate cardboard by a few inches to make a row. Next year, put down more organic material and cover it with card board. I bet you cooks can see where the name comes from.  :Smile: 

BTW I do use card board to cover garden pathways. I get all the card board I want at my local beer store. I get beer case flats; they are happy for this regular customer to take them.

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## Rick

I would think that would work just fine but turning the cardboard under in the fall would be a pain in the tiller. As long as your mulch covers the soil by a few inches it will prevent sunlight from reaching the dirt. That will be enough to keep rogue seeds from germinating. And, any that do will usually root in the mulch so it's easy enough to pull them. Still, if it works for you....you know.

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## woodsy_gardener

> I would think that would work just fine but turning the cardboard under in the fall would be a pain in the tiller.
> ....Still, if it works for you....you know.


This is a variation on no-till gardening as practiced by Ruth Stout. 

Each year a new layer of cardboard is added, much like the pasta in lasagna. 

It's not my style of gardening but I know several gardeners who swear by it. These were gardeners whose gardens had been taken over by bind weed, grass, or other creepy thing. :Smile:

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## your_comforting_company

I took the pics about a week ago, but I wanted you guys to see the similarities in the mustards. These have frost on them which makes them tender and sweet.. will be eating some soon.

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## Ken

Rub it in, why don't ya'.  Everything up here is dead and frozen.   :Cold:

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## Rick

Yeah, I'd take a picture of the mustard around here but it'd just be bare ground with some lingering snow.

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## canid

the field mustard we have here is scraggly, and somewhat astringent, but still good. the critical difference between it and the giant green mustard i have been growing is that the southern giant it is more tender, and grows in dense rosettes 3' tall.

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