# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Cooking, Food Storage, & Preserving >  Help me stock up

## RandyRhoads

Finally getting around to putting food away. I'm looking for at least a 30 days supply. All I care about is that it wont kill me, and will nourish me in an emergency. I'm talking about the point at which i'd eat a severed foot I found in a dumpster. So far this is what I have. 3 gallon HDPE gasket buckets. 2 filled with Ramen, 1 with flour, 1 with rice, and 3L olive oil, and some coconut butter. Should I do one with salt? Suggestions please?
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## crashdive123

Here are a few things I store.....

Pinto beans
Navy beans
Black beans
Lima beans (large and small)
Black eyed peas
Kidney beans
Great northern beans
Small red beans
Split peas
15 bean soup mix

Mountain House meals (pouches and cans)

Rice (brown and white)  Have to be more careful with the brown and rotate it (so oils won't go rancid)

I also store tuna (albacore pouches), canned chicken, canned veggies

Those are a few things to get you started.


I would also approach it a little differently ----- rather than 


> I'm talking about the point at which i'd eat a severed foot I found in a dumpster.


 since you have the opportunity - store things you eat now that meet your nutritional needs.

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## natertot

When I started on food, first thing I did was buy 10 cases of canned fruits and veggies. That's four cans a day for thirty days for a family of four. Cost was less than $100 and the cases stack well, so no repacking needed! Seemed like a good place to start for me.

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## BENESSE

> When I started on food, first thing I did was buy 10 cases of canned fruits and veggies. That's four cans a day for thirty days for a family of four. Cost was less than $100 and the cases stack well, so no repacking needed! Seemed like a good place to start for me.


That's how I started but mostly all kinds of beans (for protein), veggies & tuna, choosing stuff I eat anyway. My thinking has always been skewed toward things that, if necessary, I can eat without cooking. Then later, I expanded into 25yr Mountain House and similar long shelf food. I include spices I like and hot sauce, of course.

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## hunter63

> Here are a few things I store.....
> 
> Pinto beans
> Navy beans
> Black beans
> Lima beans (large and small)
> Black eyed peas
> Kidney beans
> Great northern beans
> ...


LOL....sorry can't help it.....
Add LARGE container with "Beano".........?




> I would also approach it a little differently ----- rather than  since you have the opportunity - store things you eat now that meet your nutritional needs.


Most likely the fastest and easiest way....when you buy canned or dried..... buy 1 to use.....and 2 or 3 to store.

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## Lamewolf

Canned meats are always handy to have on hand.

Spam
Corned beef
Chicken
Ham
Tuna
Salmon
Mackerel
Peanut butter (I consider it as a meat)

Just to name a few.

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## RandyRhoads

Thanks. Basically stock up on every item that doesn't spoil. No matter what. For some reason I over though this into specific foods. Basically buy a bunch of crap canned and some raw cooks me storable ingredients.

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## 1stimestar

Powdered milk, baking powder, powdered eggs, powdered honey, coffee.

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## pete lynch

dried beans 
rice
powdered milk
garlic salt and black pepper
coffee
honey
pancake mix in pouches
tuna pouches
gatorade mix
grits
oatmeal
dry soup mix
peanut butter
canned goods on a rotation schedule

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## Wildthang

Flour, sugar, salt, and powdered milk will be in huge demand if a food shortage ever occurs. And it all can be stored in plastic buckets with Gamma seal lids and oxygen absorbers!

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## Sunset Sam

> That's how I started but mostly all kinds of beans (for protein), veggies & tuna, choosing stuff I eat anyway. My thinking has always been skewed toward things that, if necessary, I can eat without cooking. Then later, I expanded into 25yr Mountain House and similar long shelf food. I include spices I like and hot sauce, of course.


So you soak the beans and cook 'em.  Pressure cookers make short work of cooking beans and save a lot of fuel (wood,propane, etc.).  Make them into frijoles refritos.  Meanwhile, mix up a batch of tortilla dough and get a cast iron skillet warming.  Liquify the powdered cheese you have stored next to the masa flour.  Fry up the tortillas (mash pieces of the dough with the bottom of a pot to shape them) until done.  Add the frijoles and the cheese.  Garnish with harvested greens, wild onion, and Benesse's hot sauce or, if she won't invite you over, something like Tapatio salsa picante (which stores very well for a long time). Sorry -- mostly raised on Mexican food. 

Our shelter in place supplies include in addition to those items already mentioned in this thread:
home-made/canned BBQ sauce, hot sauce, salsas, relishes, and meatless pasta sauces.  Canned carefully and stored in cool, dry and dark places in our garage this stuff  lasts five years or more.  Not practical when backpacking, but works if hunkered down at home or in a BOV.

A lot of folks forget the spices.  From experience I can promise that a diet of beans and dehydrated vegetables will get real old after about 2 days without spices and seasonings.  BTDT on a 7 person 9 day hike in a mountain wilderness.  The person (not me) who volunteered to cook forgot even salt and pepper.  The cook was never invited on another trip.  We buy those big containers of spices at the membership store and then break them up into smaller containers for daily use and camping use.  Can't do without my thyme and mexican oregano.

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## RandyRhoads

I saw a lot of dried beans but decided to post here first before buying 50 pounds of them. Ratios are also troubling me. I guess it's really not that important, the more the better. But is 3 gallons of salt and 3 gallons of pepper overkill? Guess it couldn't hurt to have buckets of seasoning too right? 

As far as "good for X years"...

If i'm at the eating a foot stage, what is the problem being past that. Is it just flavour loss? Nutritional lost? Or unsafe? IF it's sealed and bot has been killed etc what's the problem?

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## Rick

Randy - Just remember that there are time limits on all this stuff so purchase in amounts that you can either rotate frequently or package for long term storage. Powdered stuff will usually go rancid (not all of it but most). It will be perfectly safe to ingest but it will have changed color, taste, consistency and/or nutrition. Powdered milk for example will turn yellow. No need to make a bad situation worse by eating while holding your nose and keeping your eyes closed.

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## RandyRhoads

Thanks Rick, so it can lose nutrition. I hate rotating, I barely do it with water. Only have a few 5 gal jugs PITA....

And I probably would never use half the stuff I buy, and if it was something I used i'd probably get lazy and pull it from stock if I was hungry and didn't want to shop haha. Maybe I should just put the stuff away and consider it an expense to throw it out and replace every so many years.

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## Rick

I had to ask myself some honest questions. How often would I use 5 gallons of red wheat (or whatever). The answer is probably never so I don't stock those kinds of things. I stick with stuff I know we'll eat in sizes that won't go bad in a short time if I open it. For example, I have quarts of home canned chicken rather than #10 cans of freeze dried chicken. It will probably last just as long but we can eat a quart of chicken in a couple of meals. It might take a week to consume a #10 can of freeze dried chicken if we ate it every day. We'd never get through anything larger. If someone had their own mill and uses wheat (or whatever) then it makes perfect sense to me for them to stock those items. We don't and won't so we stick with stuff we do use. You just need to figure out what's right for you. Like everything else.

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## cowgirlup

> Thanks. Basically stock up on every item that doesn't spoil. No matter what. For some reason I over though this into specific foods. Basically buy a bunch of crap canned and some raw cooks me storable ingredients.




FYI You get more for your money and more calories per square inch with dried foods. Canned foods contain a lot of liquid which won't necessarily have many calories. 
I have my dire emergency foods stored as rice, dried beans/peas, pasta, dried cracked corn (Goya Hominy) Quinoa,Chia, barley, peanut butter, pouches of chicken and tuna, veg and olive oil.

The canned goods are for variety and convenience.  Some Mountain house items for the same reason.

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## natertot

> FYI You get more for your money and more calories per square inch with dried foods. Canned foods contain a lot of liquid which won't necessarily have many calories. 
> I have my dire emergency foods stored as rice, dried beans/peas, pasta, dried cracked corn (Goya Hominy) Quinoa,Chia, barley, peanut butter, pouches of chicken and tuna, veg and olive oil.
> 
> The canned goods are for variety and convenience.  Some Mountain house items for the same reason.


True, but the nutritional value difference between the two is completely off-set by the fact that canned goods are not dry. If your in a crappy situation, you will have to use more water to get your dried goods back to being digestible and then drink more water to prevent intestinal/digestive issues. Not saying one shouldn't have dried foods, but the increase of water needed is something to take into consideration. Pros and cons to everything.

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## RandyRhoads

> True, but the nutritional value difference between the two is completely off-set by the fact that canned goods are not dry. If your in a crappy situation, you will have to use more water to get your dried goods back to being digestible and then drink more water to prevent intestinal/digestive issues. Not saying one shouldn't have dried foods, but the increase of water needed is something to take into consideration. Pros and cons to everything.


Luckily for me if i'm home with my supplies I have an unlimited supply of safe water.

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## Rick

Murphy will visit your house making that kind of statement. Now think, "what if my water is contaminated". I figure I have an unlimited supply of nothing and plan accordingly.

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## RandyRhoads

True. I guess the equipment could break or something. Accidents happen. Then again should be able to rig breaks back ok. But true...

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## cowgirlup

> True, but the nutritional value difference between the two is completely off-set by the fact that canned goods are not dry. If your in a crappy situation, you will have to use more water to get your dried goods back to being digestible and then drink more water to prevent intestinal/digestive issues. Not saying one shouldn't have dried foods, but the increase of water needed is something to take into consideration. Pros and cons to everything.



True. I guess it all depends on where you live so you should plan accordingly.  We don't want to get on Murphy's bad side but water isn't an issue here.  Storage space is at a premium though.

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## Sunset Sam

> Luckily for me if i'm home with my supplies I have an unlimited supply of safe water.


Does this mean you are on your own well?  If so, is the well pump run off electricity from a ulility?  That is the situation for me and I am getting worried that some catastophic failure in the power lines (e.g., ice storm) is going to leave us without electricity for a week or more, because we are out at the end of a small branch line and would be one of the very last places to get power restored.

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## RandyRhoads

No. I live on a large body of water and spent hundreds of dollars on water distillation equipment.

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## hunter63

> Does this mean you are on your own well?  If so, is the well pump run off electricity from a ulility?  That is the situation for me and I am getting worried that some catastophic failure in the power lines (e.g., ice storm) is going to leave us without electricity for a week or more, because we are out at the end of a small branch line and would be one of the very last places to get power restored.


Is it possible to add a gen set or even a hand pump?
I have several options at "The Place's" well, gen set(s), water collection system, river......But city water is the only option here.....
I do store some BTW....about 100 gals.....but could use more storage.

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## Rick

I was just thinking that large body of water could become polluted rendering your equipment useless. You can dream up your own scenario but if Murphy has his way a plane loaded with mercury will crash in the middle of it.

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## RandyRhoads

Polluted how? Distillation removes the water from the pollutants?

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## Sunset Sam

> Is it possible to add a gen set or even a hand pump?
> I


It's a deep well, so hand pump, probably no.  Generator, yes, but I am concerned that it will take a pretty big one to put out enough juice to pull the water up several hundred feet to the surface and then 150 yards up hill to the house.  Then there is enough fuel to run the beast for a week or more.  I remember the pool pump at my folks house in Arizona pulled a heck of a lot of power and it only had to raise the water about 12 feet.  Then I have to splice the generator to the well pump separately from the house power because the pump is on a dedicated line.  But I think you are right, a big generator is the way to go.  At least I don't have water pollution to worry about. (Goddamit Murphy, stand down!)

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## hunter63

My well is 185 ft, has 20 amp breaker 220/240 VAC.......not sure if 1/2 or 3/4 hp....I would have to go look.
Mine runs with a 6500 watt Colman Gen set.....wired direct when needed.....

Looks like about 12 amps draw.
http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYT...ZU4?s_pp=false

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## hunter63

found this chart of appliance needs.
Quote>
From    
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...drxAAgwWattage 
ChartCategory  Appliance  
                               Running Wattage Required  Surge Wattage Required at Startup  
Household/RV  Coffee Maker  1750  0  
   Dishwasher: Cool/Dry          700  1400  
   Electric Fry Pan                  1300  0  
   Electric Range: 8in. Eleme  2100  0  
   625W Microwave                  625  800  
   Refrigerator or Freezer         700  2200  
   Automatic Washer              1150  2300  
   Electric Clothes Dryer         1800  5750  
   Furnace Fan (Gas or fuel oil): 1/8 HP  300  500  
   Furnace Fan (Gas or fuel oil): 1/6 HP  500  750  
   Furnace Fan (Gas or fuel oil): 1/4 HP  600  1000  
   Furnace Fan (Gas or fuel oil): 1/3 HP  700  1400  
   Furnace Fan (Gas or fuel oil): 1/2 HP  875  2350  
   Lights  As indicated on bulb  0  
   Radio                                      50-200  0  
   Sump Pump: 1/3 HP               800  1300  
   Sump Pump: 1/2 HP             1050  2150  
   Color Television                      300  0  
   RV Air Conditioner: 13,500 BTU      1500  2200  
   Room Air Conditioner: 10,000 BTU  1500  2200  
   Central Air Conditioner (for 2200 sq. ft. home*)  10,000  11,250  
   Small Appliance                      200  1700  
Contractor  8in. Bench Grinder  1400  2500  
   Pressure Washer: 1 HP          1200  3600  
   7-1/4in. Circular Saw             1400  2300  
   Electric Chain Saw: 14in. Bar, 2 HP  1100  0  
   10in. Table Saw                    1800  4500  
   Drill: 3/8in., 4 Amps               440  600  
   Drill: 1/2in., 5.4 Amps            600  900  
Industrial Motors  Split Phase: 1/4 HP  600  1000  
   Split Phase: 1/2 HP                 875  2300  
   Capacitor Start Induction Run: 1/3 HP  720  1300  
   Capacitor Start Induction Run: 1 HP    1600  4500  
   Capacitor Start Capacitor Run: 1 1/2 HP  2000  6100  
   Fan Duty: 1/6 HP                    550  850  
Farm Equipment  Electric Fence: 25 Miles  2500  0  
   Milk Cooler                             1100  1800  
   Milker (Vacuum Pump): 2 HP   1000  2300  
   Portable Heater (Kerosene, Diesel Fuel): 50,000 BTU  400  600  
   Portable Heater (Kerosene, Diesel Fuel): 90,000 BTU  500  725  
   Portable Heater (Kerosene, Diesel Fuel): 150,000 BTU  625  1000  
   Battery Charger: 15 Amp  380  0  
   Battery Charger: 60 Amp with 250 Amp Boost  1500/5750  0  
   Battery Charger: 100 Amp with 300 Amp Boost  2400/7800  0  
   Electric Welder: 200 Amp AC  9000  0  
   Electric Welder: 230 Amp AC at 100 Amp  7800  0  
Computers  Desktop            600-800  0  
   Laptop                            200-250  0  
   Monitor                           200-250  0  
   Fax                                 600-800  0  
   Printer                            400-600  0

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## Old Professor

I have a water purifier that can handle all my needs and a stream that flows through my property that has never dried up. I had about seventeen gallons of water stored that I used this winter when my water froze. I used it to flush the toilet until the village maintainence workers came up with a  bypass (after 4 days). I had lots of bottled water for cooking and drinking.
I have about a 30 day supply of food stored in my heated garage. I intend to shelter in place if something bad happens, so canned goods work for me inspite of the weight. Since I live alone, I only store the kinds of food that I like to eat or cook.

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## Rick

My only point, Randy, is never think never. One = None, remember. When you rely on a single item or single source that's when disaster strikes.

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## RandyRhoads

Good advice Rick. Ill keep that in mind. Got me thinking of more possibilities that could go wrong.

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## LowKey

Food storage shouldn't be a pack it and forget it thing. Self-rotating can racks are easy to build. Grocery stores can have major sales of canned and dry goods and I stock up whenever they do. I really wish that the big box stores like Sams and BJs would go back to carrying cases of stuff instead of specially packed overized containers of stuff. I'd much rather have a case of spaghetti sauce in small jars rather than two big 2gallon jars tied together with a plastic carry handle. You often don't save any money in those stores any more because of all the expensive off market packaging they now use.

Be sure you have a scenario or two to store toward. Mine started with being able to last a week with no power in December. Then when it actually happened, it turned into two weeks, one of them being sub-zero. Wasn't quite prepared for that. Far more prepared now.
So after two weeks no power in the middle of winter, my storage goals changed to having one month's supply of food laid in. Slowly working that up to 6 months. 

I have a propane powered genny that will run 3 weeks on its current tanks to keep the fridge, freezer, heat and sump pumps running. And gives me time to think about what to do with the freezer and cellar contents. I have a backup portable genny that will run the furnace and sumps. Trying to figure out how to capitalize on the water feature in the basement. Quite a supply of fresh water, protected and conveniently located...but a whole cellarfull isn't gonna work so well. Should have it tested. Wells here have an arsenic problem.

I put in fireplace inserts to heat if the genny gives out. I keep plenty of cordwood on hand. Buying early this year because last winter there was a shortage of wood and pellets here. The hardware stores were rationing pellets to 10 bags - when they had em, not by-the-ton palettes. Forget finding any firewood in January. Didn't buy a pellet stove. Most want electricity to feed though there are a few gravity feeds out there.

I digress though. It's all about working up to goals. Once you can do This Thing, start thinking toward The Next Thing.

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## 1stimestar

You could look into an oil drip stove.  Economical and requires no electricity.

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## Winnie

Big thing in my house, make sure you have a good supply of herbs, spices and stock(bouillon?) cubes to make all that boring stuff taste good. 

Have a mix of things. Dried and canned, ready to eat and needs cooking. Nothing worse than having all that food and for lack of a way of cooking it you go hungry

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## canid

> Food storage shouldn't be a pack it and forget it thing.


For sure. The goal isn't to 'collect' food here. It will eventually spoil and you could have a very large collection of spoiled canned goods.




> I saw a lot of dried beans but decided to post  here first before buying 50 pounds of them. Ratios are also troubling  me. I guess it's really not that important, the more the better. But is 3  gallons of salt and 3 gallons of pepper overkill? Guess it couldn't  hurt to have buckets of seasoning too right?


It comes back again to what you regularly like to eat. 3 gallons of black pepper might be a heck of a lot while it's fresh. if you don't open it for 10 years, it could possibly be stale and bland enough to eat it on it's own. In my household we go through about 1lb of it per year, which is as long as it keeps much kick. On the other hand, I personally eat far greater amounts of dried hot chilies, and so those are what I would store.

Salt is important. You can live without pepper, chilies, basil, cilantro, cinnamon and such, but you will die if you do not regularly eat salt. It's pretty cool that it happens to be dirt cheap (though probably not getting any cheaper, it having doubled in price here in 5 years) and it will keep for centuries longer than the buckets you have.

Another thing I like to store, and which must be rotated is dried greens. they don't hold a candle to fresh, but they go well in a lot of things and I invariably end up growing and often end up collecting more than I will use right off. I'm sure you've noticed you live in an area with enough field mustard to make it the bulk of one's diet. Lots of wild fennel too. You get them bone dry and then pack in cans or buckets with dried grains and legumes and they'll keep easily. When you're ready to eat them that way they are already the backbone of a soup.

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## Rick

If you have a water softener then you probably have about 160 pounds of salt already stored.

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## LowKey

Salt is funny stuff. Sure get all the iodized or non-iodized table salt you want.
But you have to understand too, that table salt is not canning salt, and iodized table salt even less so. While you can use it, it turns home canned goods cloudy or off color. I keep 5 boxes of canning salt in rotation. I only use about a box a year but if I ever needed to can the freezer...it's there. It cakes though so keep it dry. You can preserve food with Kosher salt too but Kosher salt is fluffier because it is usually flaked instead of crystalized. Be careful of your measuring.

The solar salt in water softening systems isn't "sea salt" in the edible sense. It may be mixed with other things and is not considered food grade. Same with Rock Salt. Other ion exchanging chemicals may be mixed in too. Be sure you know what's in the water softener before consuming it.

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## RandyRhoads

> For sure. The goal isn't to 'collect' food here. It will eventually spoil and you could have a very large collection of spoiled canned goods.
> 
> 
> 
> It comes back again to what you regularly like to eat. 3 gallons of black pepper might be a heck of a lot while it's fresh. if you don't open it for 10 years, it could possibly be stale and bland enough to eat it on it's own. In my household we go through about 1lb of it per year, which is as long as it keeps much kick. On the other hand, I personally eat far greater amounts of dried hot chilies, and so those are what I would store.
> 
> Salt is important. You can live without pepper, chilies, basil, cilantro, cinnamon and such, but you will die if you do not regularly eat salt. It's pretty cool that it happens to be dirt cheap (though probably not getting any cheaper, it having doubled in price here in 5 years) and it will keep for centuries longer than the buckets you have.
> 
> Another thing I like to store, and which must be rotated is dried greens. they don't hold a candle to fresh, but they go well in a lot of things and I invariably end up growing and often end up collecting more than I will use right off. I'm sure you've noticed you live in an area with enough field mustard to make it the bulk of one's diet. Lots of wild fennel too. You get them bone dry and then pack in cans or buckets with dried grains and legumes and they'll keep easily. When you're ready to eat them that way they are already the backbone of a soup.


Sadly I think i'm slightly allergic to the mustard greens. Probably this oral allergy syndrome crap. But if that's the case I should be ok to eat it after it's been dried/cooked. I use a TON of fennel seeds when I make stew/soup.

Are you saying you go pick a ton of mustard/fennel and store it? Wouldn't you want to store stuff you can't get any time?

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## canid

I don't store a ton of the wild stuff - though the fennel and mustard can often only be found most of the year - but you might as well ask why store canned or bulk goods. They can - after all - be had any time.

I'm sorry to hear you have trouble with the mustard. It's one of my favorite greens, just behind kale.

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