# General > General Guns & Ammo >  357 for woods and pack gun

## Greyghost

Ive never been a fan of the 357, I always had 44 mag for revolver, I have a 40S&W for CCW, But thought it was not appropriate for woods carry and don't always want to carry a long gun.  So was in LGS yesterday and put a Ruger SP101 with 4" barrel on lay away. Is this a good revolver figure to use it for Hiking and such. Largest critter for me is man, black bear, cougar to contend with, Bought it cause I can use magnum, 38's, snake load don't have any experience at all with 357 mag, What do you all say, Thanks

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## hunter63

Personally, I a big fan of the .357.....and a big fan of wheel guns.

Plenty of power, and can use multi loads, like you said....and pour bullets from wheel weights if necessary.  

I not real sure I would try a bear with one, but wouldn't feel under gunned.

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## 1stimestar

Love my .357.  I wouldn't try it on purpose with a bear but it's better then nothing.  Mine was bought for personal protection from man.

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## Seniorman

Greyghost, do you reload?  If so, you can cook up some very fine loads for your .357 Mag.  If not, then there are multiple loadings from various ammo factories.

Your .357 Mag. will handle anything you might run into there in Colorado, so long as you know how to shoot accurately.

Best of luck and have fun.

S.M.

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## natertot

Same as Hunter.

I have a Ruger Blackhawk .357 with a 6.5" barrel. Legal for deer, but cannot confirm results as such. I do keep a few mag loads for sizeable critters and I load my own snake shot loads (much cheaper to make your own!) which have proven good on a few snakes and mice.

I love it for the woods.

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## Greyghost

Yes I do reload for all of my guns, 223, 308, 300 wm,  40 S&W and now will get dies for 357 M,  Do I need dies for 357 and 38sp or will 357 do both, never thought of that one,

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## kyratshooter

> Yes I do reload for all of my guns, 223, 308, 300 wm,  40 S&W and now will get dies for 357 M,  Do I need dies for 357 and 38sp or will 357 do both, never thought of that one,


You need to get the .38spl dies.  You can back out the 38 dies to load the .357 but the .357 dies will not properly flare or crimp the shorter .38 cases.

I think Lee even refers to their set as .38/.357.

I have worn out three sets of dies reloading 38/357 over the years and the last set was from Lee, about 15 years back.  They are still going strong and their carbide sizing die eliminates the need to lube the cases.

I would also advise anyone getting started in this day and time to spring $20 for a Lee tumble lube bullet mold in .357.  No sizing or fancy lubricators needed, just slosh them around in some liquid lube and they are ready to shoot.   You will never have to worry about scarcity of slugs.

This picture always freaks out my British friends.  They are only allowed to have 200 rounds of ammo total at any time. 

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## 1stimestar

Heeeheeee a bucket o fun right there.

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## sjj

edited.....

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## hunter63

Kyrat....Looks like a good start.....

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## Greyghost

> Why not stick with the 44 mag. for your intended purposes?


Well I got a pretty good deal on this 357 and 38"s were cheaper at one time so I figured I would give it a try, They just want to much money for the 44 I want so that had a lot to do with it.

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## crashdive123

Nothing wrong with acquiring more guns.

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## natertot

Kyrat is Right. I am a Lee Precision dealer and they do make a .357 set and a .38spl set. I only carry the .38spl sets in stock because you can use them for either or. I would also go with the deluxe four die set, great value and fantastic reloading results. I believe the liquid lube Kyrat mentioned is the Liquid Alox. I sell it, but haven't casted my own to verify it's results. 

I also agree with Crash...... the more, the merrier!

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## randyt

The lee liquid lube bullet molds have my attention. Sounds like a good plan.

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## kyratshooter

I have several of the Lee tumble lube molds.  

The have a multitude of small groves that hold the lube rather then one of two large deep grooves.  

The tumble lube bullets fall from the mold at exactly what the dimension label is and they are perfectly round and need no sizing.  

The Lee liquid allox is supposed to be left to dry on the bullet for 24 hours before loading.  

It does not seem to matter if it is on the bases of the bullets, I have never had a dud due to primer or powder contamination.

They do not have reduced bases for gas checks so I suppose one should keep the velocities down to 1,000 or so to prevent leading.  That makes them about perfect for any .38 load one would find reasonable.

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## hunter63

I use both gas checks and Alox.....on 357 and .38's......with good results....wheel weights for material.
Even other companies recommend the Alox tumble lube, by Lee.

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## Rick

I have an SP101 in SS that I picked up for canoeing (yeah, it was in the canoe in '10..sigh). It has been a fine weapon and one I enjoy although I fire .38spl through it mostly. Don't care for the big boom stuff and bunnies aren't that ferocious around here....yet.

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## aktrekker

I have an SP101. Unfortunately I got the short 3" barrel. It's all the shop had at the time.
Shooting 180gr is painful.

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## kyratshooter

> I have an SP101. Unfortunately I got the short 3" barrel. It's all the shop had at the time.
> Shooting 180gr is painful.



Then don't shoot 180 grain!!! :eyepoke: 

Besides, those heavy bullets are usually loaded with slow powders best suited for long barrels.

But the fact that you CAN shoot them is the survivalists most important factor in choosing a .357.

You can shoot any weight bullet in any 38 or 357 loading,  plus you can shoot;

.38 short Colt
.38 long colt
.38 Colt auto
.38 super
.9mm Bergman/Banyard
and if you loop a piece of snare wire around the extractor groove of a .380 you can shoot them from your 357 also.  They make a cute little pop like a .22.

And a few of us diehards have even reamed one chamber of our .357 cylinder out to use 9mm Luger.  Of course we mark that one because is swells the cases of everything else, but the Air Force did it so why can't we.

A properly set up 357 is a scrounger's dream, right up there with the .32 H&R or 327 mag.

All this and a bag of chips from a pistol that has been documented to have taken every species of big game in North America, including grizzly and moose with one shot kills.

"If there's something in the woods that you can not kill with a .357, you need to get the he!! out of the woods."

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## natertot

Hadn't thought about shooting those other cartridges out of a .357. It makes sense that any .355-.357 diameter bullet attached to a rimmed case should be able to be fired. Don't think I'd ream anything though.

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## Rick

Ky, how have you been lucky enough to have lived this long? If I did something like looping a snare wire around a whatever and pulled the trigger I'd be a Darwin Award candidate with missing fingers.

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## crashdive123

You've never met Krat in person have you?  At the Jamboree's we just call him stumpy.

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## hunter63

> You've never met Krat in person have you?  At the Jamboree's we just call him stumpy.



Bhohahahaha,.....Don't do that....I think I might of had a little accident.

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## crashdive123

Careful H - can't laugh too hard - doctor's orders.

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## natertot

I thought he was called stumpy because of..... never mind. (What happens at the jamboree, stays at the jamboree!)  :2:

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## DaddyOh

The only reason i would load 38 would be if i ran outta 357 brass.  Why reload 38 if the gun will chamber magnum.  The bullets are no cheaper, mebbe a couple of grains less powder, same primer.  Just shoot the magnum.  Go with a ruger blackhawk, load some 147gr heavies and you should be ok against black bear in most states.

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## hunter63

Point is that you are able to load a .357 with a whole lot of options.......if you like the magnum loads, shoot the magnum loads.

Ruger LCR snubbie is a hand full with .357, but slightly less with .38's.

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## kyratshooter

> Ky, how have you been lucky enough to have lived this long? If I did something like looping a snare wire around a whatever and pulled the trigger I'd be a Darwin Award candidate with missing fingers.


That's why you buy the magnum chambered gun instead of the straight .38spl!  You don't have to worry about your "experiments" going wrong.

The snare wire trick is so you will have ammo resupply after taking out the gang bangers using .380 Hi-points.  The loop of wire just serves as a "rim" to hold the case against the primer strike.  The .380 case barely swells when it fires.  

The 9mm was a conversion done by the air force in Europe back in the 1960s.  They were converting S&W model 18 revolvers (38spl) to 9mm as issue side arms.  

The .38 also has the benefit, if you want to call it that, of being a black powder round in its original inception.  That means one can revert to BP technology, or even BP substitute powders if things get really rough.  And the black powder round will not be "reduced charges", the factory smokeless loading simply duplicated the BP round.   

I am hoping that would never be necessary, but have you tried to buy pistol powder lately?  According to my suppliers we are already in survival mode.

As for never loading this that or the other in a firearm???  

If you have exactly what you need you are not in survival mode, you are simply a bit inconvenienced.

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## Wildthang

I have a Colt Python and a Trooper 3, both in .357 and both my favorite pistols although for some reason I always take the Trooper 3 when I go to the woods. I think it is probaly because it is a cheaper gun than the Python but it shoots just as good! I would feel pretty comfortable even in Africa with a .357 until I got up against a Rhino or an elephant, but I would think it would at least deter or kill anything else you would run into over there.

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## Greyghost

picked up SP 101 so far really happy with it shot 38s only so far it was really smooth, Put Houge grips on it tweaked trigger a bit, Handles really well, I can see this revolver will get shot a lot.  Going to have a couple holster's made this weekend a high ride cross draw combo and a chest rig for back packing. Think it was a good choice very easy shooting. Was on target with silhouette type target at 50 yds a little high but not bad for the first time out.

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## wolverine_173

anybody hunt with a 357?

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## Wildthang

> anybody hunt with a 357?


I use to have a Rossi lever action .357 when they first came out, 80's I think, and killed a couple of deer at around 60 yards. That little rifle was acurate out to around 60 yards but after that the accuracy seemed to drop off. I always thought that they may have not got the rifling right but was never sure. Maybe Kyratt can tell me why that was, but I was using open sights and maybe that was just the threshold of accuracy using open sights! 
Bottom line, when hit in the vital area the deer dropped like a rock!

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## kyratshooter

Probably the light weight of the gun combined with the open sights and shooting method are as good a guess as any.

I shot mine for accuracy off a stable bench using sandbags at both ends of the rifle and a 3-9x scope.  When doing accuracy testing I want to know what the gun will do and not what my limitations and shortcomings are.

As for hunting with a .357 in pistol form?  I have been toting a .357 as backup gun on most of my medium and big game hunts since the state I lived in legalized handgun hunting back in the early 1970s.  

As a rural dweller and part time farmer through most of that time I had a .357, or a .38, on my belt when I went out to feed the cattle, run the fences or preform any chore that took me past the confines of the kitchen door.

I have clocked a lot of miles with a .357 on my belt, shot a lot of rounds through them and developed a great deal of confidence in their capabilities.

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## hunter63

Hunt with a .357?....well, not on purpose....used to carry a Ruger Blackhawk .44 mag, as well as a .44 carbine. that I actually "hunted with"......the .357 Ruger GP 100 is more of a belt gun.

Don't own a .357 rifle except for the recent added Handi Rifle barrel....never got into the lever action pistol calibers,.......yet.

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## swenlet

Who considers a 20 ga autoloader to be a "bear stopper", hmm?   yet it's twice as heavy a bullet as the 357 (very nearly) it's goin as fast or  faster than the 357, and it's  got 4x the frontal area.  The .63 caliber 20 ga  is 2x as much more than .44 diameter,  as the .44 is larger in od than .36. :-) If the .44 is "better" than the 357, then the 20 ga is 2x as good as the .44.  The 20 ga auto is many times easier to hit with swiftly ( with the brain as the target, as is needed to stop charges reliably) than with any magnum revolver, and the 20 auto is much faster for repeat hits, while requiring much less skill. I'd certainly never slow myself down by choosing an SA revolver for this task.  At least the 20 ga auto is good for other things, like wing shooting. The 357 aint good for much else, other than plinking with 38 loads that have no more power than the 9mm. 

Me, I just realize that unprovoked bear attacks are more rare than being hit by lightning, and much less common than dying from bee stings and the like.  So I aint buying any special sort of pistol for "bear defense".  No matter where you are, men are the more common, (and far more deadly) attacker than bears, with dogs being much more common attackers than bears. Every year in the US,  over 800k people are dog bitten badly enough to need medical attention (ASPCA website).  So I either just rely on my pocket 9mm, or I carry the fighting rifle.   Everything in between is just too limited. Murphy says that you can't reliably guess when some half baked choice will suffice.  So you might as well go with the odds (and the EDC pistol) or recognize that if you really are charged by a bear, you need a LOT more than any pistol.

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## natertot

Swenlet, What hurts the 20ga is twice the weight at the same muzzle speed means it will fall twice as fast and four times the surface area means it'll slow down quicker and penetrate less. That is why a police vest will stop a .357, but a .22 will go through. Its all about phyics.

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## kyratshooter

That and I just don't want to pay the $200 tax stamp to cut a 20ga double down to 10" and build a new holster.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mad+...F%3B1024%3B679

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## Phaedrus

The .357 Mag will get the job done.  I'd load her up with the heavier hard cast bullets for woods carry if you're worried about bigger critters.

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## DaddyOh

357 is fine for hunting up to deer.  That rossi prolly had terrible ballistics because the rifling is like 1 in 16" or something horrible (mebbe 1 in 13) and there are a lotta posts on that issue.  Still, it is a jammin little rifle.

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## Rick

Um...is that jammin' as in "This @#%$ thing is jammed again!" or is that jammin' as in "This @##$ thing is pretty cool!"?

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## Old Professor

I would like to go back to the OP's original post and his comment about carrying a .40 S&W for concealed carry. I am a fan of the .40 S&W and sometimes carry one when ridding my UTV up here in the north woods.  While bears and cougars are a possibility, Humans are a more likely hazard. After careful research, I have concluded that the Hornady Critical Duty (NOT Critical Defense) load appears to be the optimal woods defensive load in a .40 S&W semi auto pistol. It is designed for deep penetration and should perform well on a bear or cougar and obviously suitable for man stopping. I also like the greater magazine capacity of the semi auto. That said, I am moving toward revolvers rather than semi autos because age is weakening my ability to rack a semi auto. I am looking into buying a Charter Arms Pitbull in .40 S&W. I suspect that the Critical Duty round will be "snappy" in the Pitbull. I really prefer to have the 15 round capacity of the semi auto Ruger SR40  over the 5 shot Pitbull but--Decissions, Decissions!!

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## Greyghost

I decided to go strictly 357 and not use any 38spl that way its easier to keep everything straight. Im using 158 grn with 7.5 grns Unique I really like it so far, Glad I got the 4.25 barrel its very easy to carry and shoots very well.  I should of gotten one of these along time ago.  Will still keep an eye out for another 44 mag but right now they just want to much for them.  Also just bought a Sig 716 DMR it took 6 months to get it, Worth every penny and wait time. This is one fine rifle, I love it

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## Lamewolf

I think the 357 is perfect !  In a wheel gun you can use even 38 shorts if you can find them, 38spl, downloaded 357's, cast bullets, and the 180 grain flavor for bigger game such as a black bear.  I've done plenty of headshots on rabbits with low power squib loads in my old Ruger Security Six 357, and would trust it completely to take down deer !  Go for it man !

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## Wildthang

The .357 has always been my favorite pistol caliber. Yeah you can go to all kinds of smaller calibers, but with the .357 you just know it is going to kill whatever you shoot on deer and black bear sized animals and below.
And when it comes to bear and cougers, if you even get the chance to get off 6 shots you are luckier than most! I like wheel guns because they just do not jam and they always shoot dirty.

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## Old Professor

Right on about the .357. That is why I have a .357 barrel on my H&R single shot. With the proper load it is a viable 125 yard deer gun.   Go the Midway USA and look at loads by Buffalo Bore, Grizzly and other speciality  cartridge  companies.  The 180 gr WFNGC is a bear killer!

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## hunter63

I am  .357 fan as well....but again I believe it has it's place.

I keep hearing about the .357 being equal to the 30-30 and many have numbers to "prove" it, I guess. 
That may be because of the fact that nothing has been killed with a 30-30 since the interweb was invented......LOL

My solution was to include both the .357 barrel along with the 30-30 barrel, and added the .35 Whelen, and .35 Rem for good measure on that particular Handi Rifle...that started life as a .204 Ruger

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## point man

> I am  .357 fan as well....but again I believe it has it's place.
> 
> I keep hearing about the .357 being equal to the 30-30 and many have numbers to "prove" it, I guess. 
> That may be because of the fact that nothing has been killed with a 30-30 since the interweb was invented......LOL
> 
> My solution was to include both the .357 barrel along with the 30-30 barrel, and added the .35 Whelen, and .35 Rem for good measure on that particular Handi Rifle...that started life as a .204 Ruger


It's very believable. The .30 Winchester is a ballistic weenie.

Guys, don't freak!


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## hunter63

> It's very believable. The .30 Winchester is a ballistic weenie.
> 
> Guys, don't freak!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah I know.....here in all this time some 115 years or so, has accounted for more meat on the table than most likely any other caliber/load combined.....Then the interweb came along and made it into a "weenie"
Very sad......LOL

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## 1stimestar

Aw, my precious.  

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## hunter63

> Aw, my precious.  
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Very nice....even Milwaukee's Sherriff say may have to defend your self....When you need help in seconds........Help is minutes away.

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## point man

> Yeah I know.....here in all this time some 115 years or so, has accounted for more meat on the table than most likely any other caliber/load combined.....Then the interweb came along and made it into a "weenie"
> Very sad......LOL


Yep! The inter web came along and all our brains linked up and we became enlightened.

P.S. Primitive bows put more meat on the table than the 30weenie but most people with sense are using more modern weapons.

This some how reminds me of the conversations I'd have with my father while gearing up for a next mornings hunt laying out my camo clothing or climbing tree stand. He'd say "in the old days we didn't need all that stuff" and I'd reply "well Indians also used to throw spears but they sure would of used a rifle if they had one"

Just because it works doesn't mean it's right


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## Wildthang

> Yeah I know.....here in all this time some 115 years or so, has accounted for more meat on the table than most likely any other caliber/load combined.....Then the interweb came along and made it into a "weenie"
> Very sad......LOL


HUnter I thinks it's probably a toss up for the deer killed count. All of the pouchers I use to know in Oklahome used either .22 lr or .22 mags to kill their illegal deer. They killed many deer out of season and always told me that the .22 has killed more deer than any other gun. Now I don't know this for sure, but it is what I always heard from those guys, and have no reason to doubt it.
And by the way, anybody that considers a 30/30 a weenie round has never shot one!

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## hunter63

> HUnter I thinks it's probably a toss up for the deer killed count. All of the pouchers I use to know in Oklahome used either .22 lr or .22 mags to kill their illegal deer. They killed many deer out of season and always told me that the .22 has killed more deer than any other gun. Now I don't know this for sure, but it is what I always heard from those guys, and have no reason to doubt it. 47.948.662 deer
> 
> weenie .30-30... 47.948.663
> And by the way, anybody that considers a 30/30 a weenie round has never shot one!


Shuush.....Don't tell anyone.....they got used to the magic .357 in a lever gun (because they don't like the KICK of the weenie gun)

LOL.......Maybe some one will believe it.

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## natertot

Well, since 1sttime posted a pic.......

Ruger.jpg

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## point man

> HUnter I thinks it's probably a toss up for the deer killed count. All of the pouchers I use to know in Oklahome used either .22 lr or .22 mags to kill their illegal deer. They killed many deer out of season and always told me that the .22 has killed more deer than any other gun. Now I don't know this for sure, but it is what I always heard from those guys, and have no reason to doubt it.
> And by the way, anybody that considers a 30/30 a weenie round has never shot one!


Haha! I own 2 30-30's. 

I said a ballistic weenie. Sub 1700 ft lbs that doesn't carry far and falls off wicked fast. The 5.56 "poodle shooter" starts off with less and ends with more.

Big kick doesn't equal big terminal ballistics


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## 1stimestar

> Well, since 1sttime posted a pic.......
> 
> Ruger.jpg


Coolio!  I have to say something else as that isn't long enough to post..

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## aflineman

My High Standard is beginning to grow on me.

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## hunter63

Well as long as we are doing pic's....and when the discussion between the Ruger SP100 and the S&W 686 I just take them out and see how they do.
I prefer the Ruger for woods carry....slightly smaller.

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Prefer the Smith for driving tacks....really drives them in good.

The only 30-30 I own....... is a barrel for the Handi Rifle.

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## Rick

I have the Ruger 101 in SS as well. I like it, too.

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## Wildthang

> Haha! I own 2 30-30's. 
> 
> I said a ballistic weenie. Sub 1700 ft lbs that doesn't carry far and falls off wicked fast. The 5.56 "poodle shooter" starts off with less and ends with more.
> 
> Big kick doesn't equal big terminal ballistics
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


With the Lever Revolution ammo the 30/30 can be effective out to 200 yards and still have enough ft pounds of energy to drop a deer. For a rifle designed in the 1800's that ain't bad.
Yeah it's not a 500 yard rifle but within it's effective range the 30/30 is a darned good rifle. If the 30/30 is a weenie then so is the .357 and the .44 mag when used in a rifle! I have never tried it but I would dare say that the 30/30 would out shoot the pistol magnums hands down out beyond 100 yards! My Rossi .357 lever gun went to heck in a hand basket past 75 yards, so it was a mega weenie in that regard!
I guess weenies are in the eye of the beholder!
I suppose this makes the 45/70 lever rifle a weenie as well, even though it will shoot through 2 pickup trucks at 150 yards :Smartass:

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## Batch

A conversation about .30-30 and .357 and we are posting pictures. A couple of 94's, a 336, a 66-1 and her bigger brother a 29-2.

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## hunter63

> A conversation about .30-30 and .357 and we are posting pictures. A couple of 94's, a 336, a 66-1 and her bigger brother a 29-2.
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.



Now that is a family portrait if I ever saw one........Very nice.

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## point man

> With the Lever Revolution ammo the 30/30 can be effective out to 200 yards and still have enough ft pounds of energy to drop a deer. For a rifle designed in the 1800's that ain't bad.
> Yeah it's not a 500 yard rifle but within it's effective range the 30/30 is a darned good rifle. If the 30/30 is a weenie then so is the .357 and the .44 mag when used in a rifle! I have never tried it but I would dare say that the 30/30 would out shoot the pistol magnums hands down out beyond 100 yards! My Rossi .357 lever gun went to heck in a hand basket past 75 yards, so it was a mega weenie in that regard!
> I guess weenies are in the eye of the beholder!
> I suppose this makes the 45/70 lever rifle a weenie as well, even though it will shoot through 2 pickup trucks at 150 yards


Jeez, I think you've taken this way out of context. 

In response to hunter63 stating "some guys claim to have numbers comparing .357 to 30/30" or something to that nature. I simply stated that it's "very believable and that the 30/30 has always been a ballistic weenie". 

I wasn't bashing the 30/30. I own two and have killed deer with them and will continue to hunt with them when necessary. 

Also remember "I'm one of those guys that defends the viability of the 22lr.

Now you bring the 45-70 into topic?!. Great round. No ballistic miracle though.

Look at the destructive power of a catapult. Those thing destroyed castles in they're days.   

It is much easier to produce energy with mass than it is to with velocity. That is how the 30/30 and 45-70 are able to be big contenders. It's the mass not ballistic coefficiency  and terminal ballistics that puts them on the map. 

All this has to do with is my comment about how the small .357 closely stacks up to the large 30/30..?.. Ballistics!

Is it simple around these parts? I'll keep physics to my self 


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## hunter63

I have to agree PM, I'm joshing ya a bit, ...............this need not a all out bashing of anything........I'm just saying that a lot of BS is traveling around because of the interweb.
When something really needs to get shot..... way out there........7 mm mag or .30 wsm goes for a walk with me.

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## point man

Wsm all the way. 

Not so sure physics is B.S though.

You can get a small amount of powder to do big things with the right shell and projectile design.

A small bullet can produce awful lot of hydro static shock  


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## Wildthang

I actually think that a 30/06 lever gun may be the perfect woods rifle. The 06 is one of the best all around cartridges ever, and is capable of killing anything in north America. It also has the range if you need it!

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## point man

> I actually think that a 30/06 lever gun may be the perfect woods rifle. The 06 is one of the best all around cartridges ever, and is capable of killing anything in north America. It also has the range if you need it!


It may just be.

I tried experimenting with the .338 federal which is just a necked up .308 cartridge. I at one time I felt that was "perfect" but shells soon became near impossible to find and there is nothing perfect about that.

I have also been playing around with the .460 s&w as a 20" bullberry barrel rifle cartridge. I'm trying to work up some bunny thumper loads and am making good progress. They are more or less really low power 45 colts in the 460 shell. I have aspirations of being able to work up a variety of bunnies to bears & buffalo loads. It's time consuming though. It's also still only a single shot. A real slobber knocker though and a ballistic champion. @ 1.8" case length loaded right it will easily push a 200 grain Barnes DPX faster than a 30-06 will push a 200 gr bullet with almost the same amount of powder, just way faster burning.

This why I got involved with the 6.8 spc II in the AR. Same energy as the 30/30 or close enough but retains energy much better. Now with the option of the 110 Barnes tsx. Woof! At 500 yards the 6.8 has as much energy as a +p 9mm @ point blank range. All in a convenient little package 


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## kyratshooter

Gentlemen the topic if the thread is 357 pistol as a companion.

It has now morphed into a discussion of the supposed merits of some very exotic hardware in singe shot and semi-auto rifle platforms.

If you want to talk about that start a new thread so I can ignore it without sorting through a bunch of bad math and internet gossip.

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## point man

Yup


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## Rick

Okay, on topic and a question. My wife and I will be doing a couple of weeks in Yellowstone this fall and my SP101 .357 will be riding along. I was intrigued with one of Old Professors posts of 180 gr WFNGC being a bear killer. I'd never heard of that round. Were you being facetious or literal in your post? I'm looking for just that. I doubt that I'll cross paths with a bear but avoidance will be my first defense, bear spray my second and the .357 my third with a .45 auto backing me up. Is the WFNGC the best choice in .357 to stop a bear? Before someone starts tossing out 454 Casull and the like I'm not buying another gun. The .357 is it.

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## hunter63

Check Midway for.... 180 ga Wide Flat Nose Gas Check
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/252...nose-gas-check

No experience with shoot bears.

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## kyratshooter

That looks like a good one Hunter.  I would buy a 20 pack of those and hope I never had to use them.

As for the best choice to stop a bear?  It's probably as good as you are going to find in a .357 load.

Slow bullet, deep penetration, heavy impact.

I am sure touching off one of those in a 4"/ 101 would be a memory maker!

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## Rick

Worse. It's a 3.06/101. I was looking at the Grizzly but the DT looks good too. 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/117...0#ReviewHeader

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## hunter63

They are both about a buck+ per shot,..... I agree save them for secret bear medicine.

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## natertot

> Worse. It's a 3.06/101. I was looking at the Grizzly but the DT looks good too. 
> 
> http://www.midwayusa.com/product/117...0#ReviewHeader


A 30.06 101? Wow......

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## Rick

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## Old Professor

I looked at both the Grizzly and the DT and decided that the Grizzly had slightly better ballistics/stopping power. I would buy the DT if I could not find the Grizzly load.
The major issue in a bear load is penetration! A hard cast lead, heavy bullet does that better than a fast, light hollow point. You need to reach a vital organ or the spine/brain to stop a charging animal. If I found myself in that situation, I would be trying for a head shot!

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## kyratshooter

head shot my ....!!!

Yea, I'm going to go out and swat a hornet nest, then stand firm and aim at a 10X target ring to practice head shots on grizzlys!

No fear!  I got this covered. 

Which eye do you want me to shoot out?

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## Rick

Well, like I said, I don't expect to see one and avoidance is my first defense, bear spray will be second and third (we both will be carrying bear spray) and my .357 will be used only if necessary. I've also touched base with both Grizzly and Ruger to see what they have to say about the combo. I'm also looking at .45 ACP +P (another I had not heard of) for the XD45. Again, I've touched base with Buffalo Bore and Springfield to get their take on the combo. Here's the .45 ACP +P info. 

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...ct_detail&p=74

Their site says it's good for black bear protection but I don't want to be the guy to try it.

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## Old Professor

kyratshooter, I did not say that I would be able to make a head shot every time. I said that the head shot would be what I would be trying to make! Nothing short of a brain/upper spine shot will drop a bear in its tracks. A bear shot in the heart will probably still live long enough to tear you up or kill you. I live in bear country, I hunt (and bait) bears and I spend time in the woods with my grand daughters and their dog. Some might say that that is poking a hornets nest but bear encounters are not common. I just do not want to be unarmed if I encounter the exceptional aggressive bear.

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