# Survival > Survival Kits & Survival Products >  Best survival tools.

## Young_prepper

Especially in an area with access to:
farmlandurban(ish) areasforestslots of silos

Anything that isn't too expensive and can be considered "camping gear" (for parents' sake) would be great. Thanks! :Gun Bandana:   :ohno:  I really love these smilies!!

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## welderguy

Best survival tool and the one you need to always keep sharp is your MIND, learning and practice is the best tool you can get.  Look around the forums I am sure you will find the info your looking for.

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## Sarge47

Check out my blog for some info on what you're looking for!       :Detective:

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## GreatUsername

I'd also recommend instructional books and pamphlets, in case your memory fails you. Practice is important too. I "know" how to make buckskin, for example, I "know" how to make a flint knife, I "know" how to use a fire-piston. But I've never actually done those things, and if my first attempt is in a survival situation, I'm going to regret that. I'll be better prepared than someone who has no knowledge, but at a handicap compared to someone with knowledge AND experience.

As far as best survival "gear", consider wool anything, especially socks, gloves, and blankets, and any and all firestarters. In addition, lightweight tents and other good sleeping systems, including sleeping bags, tarps and/or bivouac sacks, are important to have in case your home is lost in a natural disaster, be that a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, or flood. Knives would be less important in the environment you're describing, but a hatchet or machete might be useful if you need to chop up some plant matter. Since you're describing a somewhat urban environment, you'll want extensive first aid gear and TRAINING in case you encounter other people needing assistance, and you'll probably want to store up a few hundred dollars in hard cash of various bills and coins, because credit/debit cards and checks are useless in most post-disaster scenarios.

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## finallyME

Acquiring equipment is a lifelong process.  It comes down to what is best for you.  Have you gone camping before?  I would suggest starting there.  In fact, do it in your back yard.  Sleep outside and cook meals and just see what stuff you need to do that.  Your equipment needs to be parred with your skill level.

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## hunter63

> Especially in an area with access to:
> farmlandurban(ish) areasforestslots of silos
> 
> Anything that isn't too expensive and can be considered "camping gear" (for parents' sake) would be great. Thanks!  I really love these smilies!!


What does silos have to do with it?....just curious.

Start slow, you will need:

Shelter, (or clothing)
Water, someting to carry it in
Fire, way to start it and fuel to keep going....way to purify water and stay warm
Food

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## ubercrow

> Especially in an area with access to:
> farmlandurban(ish) areasforestslots of silos
> 
> Anything that isn't too expensive and can be considered "camping gear" (for parents' sake) would be great. Thanks!  I really love these smilies!!


Personally I would start out with a backpacking set up 80lb pack you can hike around and camp with. I think it is a great survival skill to be able to toss some things in a pack any go to the woods for a few days you learn a lot from roaming around setting up different camps. 

After you master mobile camping you can start to study your environment for food What is in the silos? can you soak it in water and eat it? 

Is their deer? maybe study deer hunting and get a deer tag or start off with bird hunting. It is much more realistic to learn how to hunt with a 12g then to make bows with sicks and snares with ____?

Usually most of the survival stuff I carry is to keep warm and dry then comes food. "Tools" really depend on your climate, season, etc many people in our consumer society get way too carried away with survival tools and toys. Big Rambo knives, axes and zombie slaying stuff looks cool but in a *real* survival situation usually isn't really that practical.

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## Wildthang

You can put together an effective backpack very cheaply to get started, and have the things you really need to survive with, which we call the essentials. There are many posts and threads on here that list the essentials, and what most people keep in their packs. I am assuming by "tools" you mean survival essentials, is that correct?

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## sticker

yea pick up an old alice pack and a tarp. thats a great place to start. Then get something for fire starting, a container to cook in, a sleeping bag or wool blanket and a sharp knife. A mora is a good low cost one. then its all just practice and more practice

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## Wildthang

> yea pick up an old alice pack and a tarp. thats a great place to start. Then get something for fire starting, a container to cook in, a sleeping bag or wool blanket and a sharp knife. A mora is a good low cost one. then its all just practice and more practice


Right on to that! Don't start buying real expensive stuff just because somebody says it's the best. We are assuming you are on a limited budget being young, so just remember, survival items do not have to be expensive to be effective. like Sticker said, get a cheap backpack at an Army surplus, get a cheap 8' x 10' tarp, get 50' of cheap nylon rope, a quart sized stainless steel cook pot, a canteen, knife, waterproof matches, a Bic lighter, basic first aid stuff and you pretty much have the essentials. There are a lot of other things that make it easier, but that will get you by, and you will be better prepared than 99% of your friends! You won't beleive how much stuff you probably have laying around the house that will be useful survival tools once you start looking!

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## 1776

Besides the stuff already mentioned Learn some land navigation skills. Don't just rely on GPS. Take your GPS to the field but try to navigate without it. Being lost really is not fun and if you are prepping for the end of civilization GPS won't be around.

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## Delta 5168

> Besides the stuff already mentioned Learn some land navigation skills. Don't just rely on GPS. Take your GPS to the field but try to navigate without it. Being lost really is not fun and if you are prepping for the end of civilization GPS won't be around.


   What '76 said is right.  GPS is fine if there are enough batteries and the satellite system is working okay.  If budget is a consideration right now, get a decent compass and maps (map stores, internet) and practice.  Decide where you want to go considering the situation.  That is, don't head toward the beach if a sunami is headed that way or toward a nuclear reactor if it's pumping out radiation.

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## Mozartghost1791

> Besides the stuff already mentioned Learn some land navigation skills. Don't just rely on GPS. Take your GPS to the field but try to navigate without it. Being lost really is not fun and if you are prepping for the end of civilization GPS won't be around.


Being lost might be fun if you're prepared... lots of people look at survival as an unpleasant thing that you have to 'man up' and just do it, but if you work with nature instead of against it... and have the proper training.... being lost will be like camping... except with more adventure. 
However, if you aren't prepared, things could get messy pretty quick, so I suggest 'backyard survival' to begin with. As far as the 'end of civilization' goes, technically it's a possibility, but mostly it's a bunch of religious nuts' strange ideas rubbing off on the public...and then the public's strange ideas rubbing off on the media. I don't prepare for the end of civilization, I want to be able to live in the wild and off the land... its a valuable asset to know, and it's also a fun outdoor activity.

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## hunter63

> Being lost might be fun if you're prepared... lots of people look at survival as an unpleasant thing that you have to 'man up' and just do it, but if you work with nature instead of against it... and have the proper training.... being lost will be like camping... except with more adventure. 
> However, if you aren't prepared, things could get messy pretty quick, so I suggest 'backyard survival' to begin with. As far as the 'end of civilization' goes, technically it's a possibility, but mostly it's a bunch of religious nuts' strange ideas rubbing off on the public...and then the public's strange ideas rubbing off on the media. I don't prepare for the end of civilization, I want to be able to live in the wild and off the land... its a valuable asset to know, and it's also a fun outdoor activity.


When you define being lost as "might be fun", sounds like like the stories of the incedent for years after the fact, LOL.......
It never fun at the time,..... I'm not talking getting turned around, PITA have to walk a little further, mile square area, with plenty of gear.....I'm talking have no clue where anything is , or even where to go, not being prepared....Lost.

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## ubercrow

> Being lost might be fun if you're prepared... lots of people look at survival as an unpleasant thing that you have to 'man up' and just do it, but if you work with nature instead of against it... and have the proper training.... being lost will be like camping... except with more adventure.


You get lost in New Jersey and no big deal walk an hour until you get to a subdivision. Many places in the western US being lost can kill you. start walking in the wrong direction with no roads for sometimes hundreds of miles? you will probably run out of food and food is not very easy to get in most county.

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## welderguy

> You get lost in New Jersey and no big deal walk an hour until you get to a subdivision. Many places in the western US being lost can kill you. start walking in the wrong direction with no roads for sometimes hundreds of miles? you will probably run out of food and food is not very easy to get in most county.


Food isnt an issue, WATER is. You can go a long time with no food, but only a short time with no water, Basic survival knowledge is three minutes without air, three hours without shelter ,three days without water , three weeks without food.

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## ubercrow

> Food isnt an issue, WATER is. You can go a long time with no food, but only a short time with no water, Basic survival knowledge is three minutes without air, three hours without shelter ,three days without water , three weeks without food.


Good point, many people that are lost have to resort to drinking creek water then what happens in 3 days? you are in a lot more trouble if you have the diarrhea.

Many places like NW, Arizona, Nevada water is the issue. you can only go as far as the water you carry.

but no food going up and down mountains especially in high elevation burns calories a human gets diminished fast. Here in Colorado water usually is not an issue but you need calories.

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## welderguy

> Good point, many people that are lost have to resort to drinking creek water then what happens in 3 days? you are in a lot more trouble if you have the diarrhea.
> 
> Many places like NW, Arizona, Nevada water is the issue. you can only go as far as the water you carry.


Ok first thing Drinking unfiltered or unpurified water can lead to more serious things and can accelerate dehydration, Diarrhea and vomiting are two of them. here is a list from the mayo clinic on symptoms . 
 Mild to moderate dehydration is likely to cause:

Dry, sticky mouth
Sleepiness or tiredness — children are likely to be less active than usual
Thirst
Decreased urine output — no wet diapers for three hours for infants and eight hours or more without urination for older children and teens
Few or no tears when crying
Dry skin
Headache
Constipation
Dizziness or lightheadedness
Severe dehydration, a medical emergency, can cause:

Extreme thirst
Extreme fussiness or sleepiness in infants and children; irritability and confusion in adults
Very dry mouth, skin and mucous membranes
Lack of sweating
Little or no urination — any urine that is produced will be dark yellow or amber
Sunken eyes
Shriveled and dry skin that lacks elasticity and doesn't "bounce back" when pinched into a fold
In infants, sunken fontanels — the soft spots on the top of a baby's head
Low blood pressure
Rapid heartbeat
Rapid breathing
No tears when crying
Fever
In the most serious cases, delirium or unconsciousness
Unfortunately, thirst isn't always a reliable gauge of the body's need for water, especially in children and older adults. A better indicator is the color of your urine: Clear or light-colored urine means you're well hydrated, whereas a dark yellow or amber color usually signals dehydration.

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## ubercrow

^That a pretty big list.

I'll tell you what happens in many lost persons in this area they run out of water start drinking from streams and many times in about 3-14 days they get giardia. The average person probably sets out with around 1qt- 1/2 gallon of water that's probably gone in 12hours. Some more prepared people carry water tabs most do not.

For many(and most cases I know of) it gets to a point of drink stream water or die.

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## Mozartghost1791

Carry a fire starter kids!!! Finding a beer bottle or can to boil water in should be easy enough if you are anywhere even remotely associated with civilization. If you have to you can even dig a hole in the ground, or fill your pants up with water, (if they're the right kind) and boil stream water in it by putting in hot rocks. Of course, if you had any sort of water container to begin with, you can probably use that to boil it in. I carry a small ferro fire starter and steel in my wallet so I'd always have it if I got lost. The Kleenex I usually have in my pocket make good tinder even if I don't have anything else. 
If dew (or frost) collects on the ground in the mornings, mop some up with your shirt (or another cloth) and wring it out into your mouth or your bottle. This won't have giardia, but make sure it isn't being wiped off of poison ivy or chemically treated surfaces...

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## ubercrow

> If dew (or frost) collects on the ground in the mornings, mop some up with your shirt (or another cloth) and wring it out into your mouth or your bottle. This won't have giardia, but make sure it isn't being wiped off of poison ivy or chemically treated surfaces...


I would Love to see someone do this... (and actually get more then 3 drops) I think this is one of the biggest survival myths out there.

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## welderguy

> I would Love to see someone do this... (and actually get more then 3 drops) I think this is one of the biggest survival myths out there.


 TWO things... First this thread is getting off tract the OP was about Tools, second instead wanting to see it done ubercrow try it and document that its a myth!

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## 1776

> TWO things... First this thread is getting off tract the OP was about Tools, second instead wanting to see it done ubercrow try it and document that its a myth!


Yep we are going far afield from OP
Sorry I mentioned getting lost and the end of civilization. 
So I'll restate like Delta said at a minimum get a compass and a map and learn how to use them. Even if some people don't mind being lost its hard to get anywhere on any kind of wilderness experience if you don't know where you are or where you are going. It's even harder to get back home to a hot shower and a nice big greasy hamberger.

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## ubercrow

> TWO things... First this thread is getting off tract the OP was about Tools, *second instead wanting to see it done ubercrow try it and document that its a myth!*


yeah, right after my why unicorns are fake documentation I will get right on it, lol

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## welderguy

> yeah, right after my why unicorns are fake documentation I will get right on it, lol


Shows what you know, rhinos are fat unicorns. And if you ever got off the computer and walked thru a field of grass in the early morning your shoes and pants will be soaked, thats called dew. and if you oh lets say wrap your shirt around your leg while walking thru said field you could ring or suck out the moister from that cloth , that moister is called water, and if you do that a few times you may just have enough to fight of serious dehydration and that can mean the diffrence of survival .

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## welderguy

> yeah, right after my why unicorns are fake documentation I will get right on it, lol


So I see by that comment you have no actual hands on experiance .

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## GreatUsername

> Shows what you know, rhinos are fat unicorns. And if you ever got off the computer and walked thru a field of grass in the early morning your shoes and pants will be soaked, thats called dew. and if you oh lets say wrap your shirt around your leg while walking thru said field you could ring or suck out the moister from that cloth , that moister is called water, and if you do that a few times you may just have enough to fight of serious dehydration and that can mean the diffrence of survival .


If dewy grass can have enough moisture in it to give me borderline hypothermia (true story, I was 11 at the time), I imagine it's a good source for water. Also consider plastic bags around tree branches, weighted with rocks. The moisture of/on the plant will condense on the inside of the bag as the evening rolls around.

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## ubercrow

> So I see by that comment you have no actual hands on experiance .


I have collected dew from probably the wettest place on earth with some of the most dew, Nth Cali redwood forest you can can wipe the forest down for hours and get basically nothing worth while(besides wet clothing) your only hope would probably be a very large water proof serifice such as the top of a motor home or a massive tarp. But since you are lost in the woods wiping down leaves I don't see getting much of a drink of water. 

As for a normal place with a small coating of dew? good luck with any water making it to your lips.

I have spent 2 decades trying "survival" stuff. How about you do you ever make it off of the internet and actually try some of this stuff?

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## welderguy

> I have collected dew from probably the wettest place on earth with some of the most dew, Nth Cali redwood forest you can can wipe the forest down for hours and get basically nothing worth while your only hope would be a very large water proof serifice such as the top of a motor home or a massive tarp. But sence you are lost in the woods wiping down leaves I don't see getting much of a drink of water. 
> 
> As for a normal place with a small coating of dew? good luck with any water making it to your lips.
> 
> I have spent 2 decades trying "survival" stuff. How about you do you ever make it off of the internet and actually try some of this stuff?


 YAWN>>>> I see I am talking to an expert that I am guessing has done it all so I will not ruin the OP's thread with indulging your petty comments. Good day sir.

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## hunter63

> Especially in an area with access to:
> farmlandurban(ish) areasforestslots of silos
> 
> Anything that isn't too expensive and can be considered "camping gear" (for parents' sake) would be great. Thanks!  I really love these smilies!!


I still want to hear about the silos.........

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## ubercrow

> YAWN>>>> I see I am talking to an expert that I am guessing has done it all so I will not ruin the OP's thread with indulging your petty comments. Good day sir.


I actually try stuff before I spout off, I see you have nothing realistic to add about this.

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## Mozartghost1791

> I have spent 2 decades trying "survival" stuff. How about you do you ever make it off of the internet and actually try some of this stuff?


You think that's pretty slick, huh? Well I've walked through a lawn with SHORT grass early in the morning and my shoes were so soaked that they were dripping. If that was a cloth being dragged through that grass I bet you could get a decent dose of 'aich two oh' that way and in Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival it says that two students were able to fill a 20 gallon bucket in one morning of hard work sweeping dew.

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## ubercrow

> You think that's pretty slick, huh? Well I've walked through a lawn with SHORT grass early in the morning and my shoes were so soaked that they were dripping. If that was a cloth being dragged through that grass I bet you could get a decent dose of 'aich two oh' that way and in *Tom Brown's Field Guide* to Wilderness Survival it says that two students were able to fill a 20 gallon bucket in one morning of hard work sweeping dew.


lol... I thought that is where you guys get this stuff from, Tom Brown is fake. The drawing in the book where he grabs grass with drew and it runs in his mouth,lol that's where the unicorns come from.lol

Internet survivalist.

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## welderguy

> I actually try stuff before I spout off, I see you have nothing realistic to add about this.


Tell ya what , Ill post pictures and or a video of my dew collecting expedition this weekend if you will. Other wise I dont wanna hear your dribble.

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## ubercrow

> Tell ya what , Ill post pictures and or a video of my dew collecting expedition this weekend if you will. Other wise I dont wanna hear your dribble.


I will be waiting with and empty cup, _a little tiny cup_.

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## welderguy

Young Prepper.

 I want to apologize for derailing your thread.

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## Young_prepper

That's OK, Welderguy.

The silo thing is from a book I read. (admittedly fiction) The entire state of Iowa pretty much survives the winter by silo-busting. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that's something I should get out of my head?

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## welderguy

> That's OK, Welderguy.
> 
> The silo thing is from a book I read. (admittedly fiction) The entire state of Iowa pretty much survives the winter by silo-busting. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that's something I should get out of my head?


Not trying to give you a hard time but could you explain silo busting ?

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## crashdive123

Let it go fellas.  Get out and try it if you want to prove or disprove a point.  Boots in the field!  Letting it get personal is not the way to go.

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## welderguy

Your late crash I dropped it after the challenge, I apologised to young prepper for highjacking the thread, and  the last few posts were me to young prepper.  Asking him what silo busting is.

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## crashdive123

I read the entire thread.  Just a friendly reminder - that's all.

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## Rick

80lb pack? The only place an 80lb pack will be if it's mine is in the back of the truck being unloaded to reduce weight.

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## hunter63

> That's OK, Welderguy.
> 
> The silo thing is from a book I read. (admittedly fiction) The entire state of Iowa pretty much survives the winter by silo-busting. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that's something I should get out of my head?


Not sure which one that would be.....silos generally have a mix of corn/corn and stalks/ other grains, and other organic matter that can be actually "spoiling" and will give off gases that can kill.  (methane) as well as spontaneous combustion of grain dusts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silo#Dr...2F_bin_hazards
So it may be a possible shelter, but I'd look elsewhere....seems a lot of fiction.

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## Young_prepper

Silo busting:
1. Break into silo
2. Eat edible material in silo.
3. If nothing is edible, find new silo and repeat.

Note: It was the Change novels or something like that. It was more a back story than an important piece of information.

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## Young_prepper

Here's some more specific questions:
1. My dad has an ax in the garage. It has a large (2'+) wooden handle and is nice and heavy. Should I get a smaller camp ax or is this good?
2. Would a small shovel be a good thing to have when camping? 
3. How about a mallet? Wooden handle + rubber head or 1 piece plastic?  :6: 
4. What kind of stakes? lightweight aluminum, steel, or plastic? (these will go into a variety of surfaces, from dirt to gravel with about an inch of dirt/grass on top)
5. Compass: I liked my surveyor's compass, but somehow it doesn't point north (it has a disk that spins, not a needle) Suggestions for a replacement?
6. What kind of lightweight container should I look for to keep a book, pencils and other things that can't get wet in? (note: book's corners tear zip-lock bags.)

This should cover it for now. Thanks!

Silos were kind of a fun sounding thing that is starting to seem over the top now. Thanks!

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## GreatUsername

> Here's some more specific questions:
> 1. My dad has an ax in the garage. It has a large (2'+) wooden handle and is nice and heavy. Should I get a smaller camp ax or is this good?
> 2. Would a small shovel be a good thing to have when camping? 
> 3. How about a mallet? Wooden handle + rubber head or 1 piece plastic? 
> 4. What kind of stakes? lightweight aluminum, steel, or plastic? (these will go into a variety of surfaces, from dirt to gravel with about an inch of dirt/grass on top)
> 5. Compass: I liked my surveyor's compass, but somehow it doesn't point north (it has a disk that spins, not a needle) Suggestions for a replacement?
> 6. What kind of lightweight container should I look for to keep a book, pencils and other things that can't get wet in? (note: book's corners tear zip-lock bags.)


Applologies for the length... I sometimes try to account for all questions before they are asked. ¡Soy el verboso!


1: My feeling has always been that while it's nice to have a smaller one too, you can do everything with the larger that you could do with the small, albeit more awkwardly.
2: That depends on where you are camping, and what you might use it for. I personally have never had much use for shovels other than to dig catholes (human waste disposal), but you can do that with the heel of your boot in a pinch. If you are in a snowy area though, or might incorporate digging into shelter construction, it might not be a bad idea. Not essential in my opinion.
3: Unless that axe is double-bladed, it probably will do a good job as a hammer/mallet, just be sure to leave the sheath on or else be VERY cautious of the blade, and strike the flat heel of the axehead against whatever you're hammering.
4: If you mean tent stakes, the type depends on where you are camping. Sand, snow, and loose soils require larger and thicker stakes like this: Cotswold-Snow-Sand-Stake-Alloy.jpg But in harder, compacted soil, you need these: vargo_ultralight_titanium_tent_stakes_rg.jpg And for a balanced stake between the two, consider these: stanpic816.jpg
My preference is for metal stakes, because they can be used for more than plastic ones can (such as to raise a pot above a fire or stove) and tend to be more robust. In a pinch you can also make stakes from local hardwoods. 
5: Surveyor's compasses tend to be a bit confusing to use, especially if you don't understand the principle of declination very well (the number of degrees that magnetic north deviates from true north in your locality). I'd recommend you get an orienteering compass: compass.jpeg they are simple, robust, and easy to understand. 
6: Not being the sort to take books on wet trips, I don't know this answer as well as the others, but my suggestion would be that you get a small waterproof day-pack or satchel or something, and keep that inside your main pack. Vinyl or leather sacks tend to be the best for this purpose. 

Good luck, I'm excited that you are taking interest in this sort of activity. If you have a boyscout troop available, that is an excellent resource for practice and networking with people who enjoy the outdoors like you do.

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## Sarge47

Made some comments in red, doesn't sound like you learned a whole lot about camping in Scouts though.     :Detective: 




> Here's some more specific questions:
> 1. My dad has an ax in the garage. It has a large (2'+) wooden handle and is nice and heavy. Should I get a smaller camp ax or is this good?
> *
> How old and, big, and strong are you?  Do you have any experiance handling an Ax?* 
> 
> 2. Would a small shovel be a good thing to have when camping? 
> *
> A garden trowel works just as well, yet a lot lighter and takes up less room!*
> 3. How about a mallet? Wooden handle + rubber head or 1 piece plastic? 
> ...

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## sticker

Something I have found to be of use is a pruning saw. Im not planning to fell large trees but for processing wood for fire or shelter it more then fits the bill.

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## welderguy

> Here's some more specific questions:
> 1. My dad has an ax in the garage. It has a large (2'+) wooden handle and is nice and heavy. Should I get a smaller camp ax or is this good?  
> 2. Would a small shovel be a good thing to have when camping? 
> 3. How about a mallet? Wooden handle + rubber head or 1 piece plastic? 
> 4. What kind of stakes? lightweight aluminum, steel, or plastic? (these will go into a variety of surfaces, from dirt to gravel with about an inch of dirt/grass on top)
> 5. Compass: I liked my surveyor's compass, but somehow it doesn't point north (it has a disk that spins, not a needle) Suggestions for a replacement?
> 6. What kind of lightweight container should I look for to keep a book, pencils and other things that can't get wet in? (note: book's corners tear zip-lock bags.)
> 
> This should cover it for now. Thanks!
> ...


answers in order of questions. personal preferences of mine, your results and like may be diffrent

 1. for a camp ax I like a full size ax , but if I have to pack it in then I prefer a hatchet.
 2. the little 99 cent garden trowel works great IMO
 3. Why? you'll have a hatchet or ax
 4. I prefer the metal stakes. they last longer
 5. covered by Sarge and GUN. 
 6. the dry bag that sarge suggested.

 Thanks for explaining the silo thing , I would forget that idea, for a lot of reasons. 

A couple other things you may want to research is fire starters, water purification, and maps of the areas you will be hiking and camping in.
Try a different method of fire starting each time you go out , such as the bow drill method, or a magnifing lens, etc etc. ( have a lighter with you just in case you dont get it going ). and research and play with tinder as well.

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## hunter63

> Silo busting:
> 1. Break into silo
> 2. Eat edible material in silo.
> 3. If nothing is edible, find new silo and repeat.
> 
> Note: It was the Change novels or something like that. It was more a back story than an important piece of information.


Just curious, so thanks for clearing that up........I guess I was thinking shelter, and kinda sounded like a new idea.

One of my first books of self sufficiency was "Boxcar Children", and out several kids that made do, living in an old box car......and for some reason that always stuck with me....and that was maybe 45 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boxcar_Children

So did it relate what was considered edible.......corn, wheat, ....?

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## finallyME

> Here's some more specific questions:
> 1. My dad has an ax in the garage. It has a large (2'+) wooden handle and is nice and heavy. Should I get a smaller camp ax or is this good?


You probably want a "boy's axe" or something smaller.  That is just an axe in the 2.5 lb range.  It is better for younger users.  However, still a little heavy for carrying around in a pack.




> 2. Would a small shovel be a good thing to have when camping?


Bringing a steel shovel when car camping is a good idea.  You can use it to mess with coals.  However, backpacking, bring a small trowel, or use an digging stick.  I don't like plastic trowels because I break them too much on roots.  I use a snow stake instead.




> 3. How about a mallet? Wooden handle + rubber head or 1 piece plastic?


If you have an axe or hatchet, then that is a hammer as well.  Besides rocks were invented for a reason.




> 4. What kind of stakes? lightweight aluminum, steel, or plastic? (these will go into a variety of surfaces, from dirt to gravel with about an inch of dirt/grass on top)


If you are car camping, then tent sites are restricted to certain areas.  For these you need steel stakes.  Otherwise, choose a site with soft ground.  Then you only need aluminum ones.  I prefer Y stakes.  Don't get the cohlgan ones, they are crap, get either MSR or REI brands.




> 5. Compass: I liked my surveyor's compass, but somehow it doesn't point north (it has a disk that spins, not a needle) Suggestions for a replacement?


Silva's quality control is going down hill over the last few years.  Buy either a Suunto or a Brunton brand.  The ones with a flat base are better for beginners.  




> 6. What kind of lightweight container should I look for to keep a book, pencils and other things that can't get wet in? (note: book's corners tear zip-lock bags.)


Ziplock baggie.  Reinforce it with clear packing tape if you feel it necessary.

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## ifyoudare

Hey,

I live in an area with all of these (except the silos).

I have 4 kids ranging from 2 - 16 and we go camping near rivers, live in the bush and are a long way from anywhere. So we have to be prepared.

Really good if you need to light a fire in wet conditions because it has a magnesium strip which you can shave off.  If you are camping and your bic lighter  gets wet, your stuffed.  With a flint fire starter that has magnesium it doesn't matter if it gets wet, you can still use your tool and light a fire to keep warm or cook dinner.  This is because the magnesium works better when wet (gets really hot).

Also if your torch runs out (and we all know what that is like) you can strike the flint to create an emergency light that shines around yourself and helps when walking around so that you don't step on a snake or something.  Better than flicking a lighter, that burns your fingers.  LOL.

Also if the kids wander to far at night, they can signal you.  You can see that spark from like 3 km away.  Great for signalling emergency services when needed like a helicopter.

I have tried heaps of these flint type fire starters but the Aussie Survival Tool has timber as a handle that can be used to help start a fire.  You can't beat that.  Also it's spark is heaps brighter than the others.  Google it if you haven't seen it.

I is small enough to keep in your pocket.  I always make sure that I have an Aussie Survival Tool in our camping gear (also have one in all the cars) and my kids all know how to use them except the 2 year old.  LOL.

Also I like the Lifestraws.  They make sure you can get a clean health drink without drama or chemicals.   Literally with the straw straight from a river, probably even a puddle, and it makes the water drinkable.  You can Google this one too.

Both of these I take camping.  They are totally awesome and actually work.  They are small, take up no room and make sure that you have the ability for heat, signal, light and water.  (in your pocket  :Mellow: )

You should also take a first aid kit!

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## Davidlastink

OK so quick dirty, and what I have in my 3Bag or mini-BoB as I call it.

Fire/compass
Cutter
Cordage

So its 4 but for me its three, drop cordage, paracord off it limited to three.

Me and others from the old ST forums are very familiar with the firesteels offered and I have an Armageddon with a built in compass striker and (bit of cordage wrapped around it which I then wrapped more around)
Then I got me my multitool its a letherman but pick your poison till you find one u like.

of course I'd prefer my BK-7 if space allowed since its a heftier fixed blade you can do all sorts of fun stuff with.

Basics of my Bob

Firesteel
Magnesium block
Multitool
Hand chainsaw
Becker BK-7, (ugly but effective) the 9 inch blade was too machete for me, likely to just end up stabbin meself to heaven/hell.
Zip Ties
First-aid kit
Wetstone (japense type)  need to figure out how to work this thing better truly do its a skill
P-51(can opener)
Tuna in tin (packed in oil preferred)
Vieanna sausage (eat or use for bait... I eat em they are yummy hot or cold)
Daisy chained Paracord, da real deal stuff not the fake three strand wally world stuff
PJ (TJ) balls petroleum jelly (vasalene) melted and soaked into cotton balls
suture kit (although I would end up doing more damage then good... for the occasion I stumble across a fellow lost survivor who has medical training, but it stays in the larger vehicle BoB anyways)
Gloves, and also several pair of latex/vinyl gloves (catching food only to catch a disease when butchering it would defeat the whole purpose)
Small Hand Axe
Tire Iron (yeah its useful and even if not part of BoB should be in your trunk DUH!)
Pry Bar
Chain and lock
Food stuffs (got a 3 year "3day survival ration") suppose to taste like coconut and last 3 yrs will test it out soon as it is set to expire in about 6 months.
Water Bladder, preferably filled which goes in my backpack
2 gallons of water kept in trunk
Thermal "Tent" which is just a large thermal blanket tube with some string to "pitch it" but squirm into tube cover over with debris if nothing else.

But always watch your expiry dates and try to rotate/maintain gear specially cordage/ropes dried out frayed life lines are not much of a lifeline.

I do not carry rope, it is prohibitively expensive and I'd get into more trouble with it than I should try to get into on my own.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff so I will have to go and check my packs to refresh the noggin, I have committed the sin of being lax.

I can not stress enough however that you gear is useless unless you get practice using it. Know what it can and can't do (for example paracord is not meant for climbing).

I'm all about budgeting and none of my gear was particularly expensive, the BK-7 and the multitool are some of the more pricy items.

Also 2 is 1 one is none. I have and extra of everything I tend to set up my Vehicle Bob liek a Russian nesting doll, the big BoB for my trunk has 1 of everything, sept for the BK-7 which is more for price than anything then inside there is my Pack which has alot of the more mobile items then a phanny pack within there with smaller items and then also in the pack is a separate waterproof bag, ones u get from waterparks for your wallet with a magnesiumblcok/firesteel and a cheaper multitool plus some matches and a button compass. I keep that smaller bag in the front pocket of the pack for easy access.

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## ubercrow

> 80lb pack? The only place an 80lb pack will be if it's mine is in the back of the truck being unloaded to reduce weight.


The OP seemed young. lol

80lb pack for me better be a rear elk quarter, or 2-40lb packs.

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## Cast-Iron

Its been said before, but knowledge and a rational assessment of your situation and capabilities are your best survival tools in a survival situation.  You should consider those things in your particular environment which threaten your well-being and then be prepare to minimize their impact should the need arise.  Making this assessment before you head into the wilderness should help you have the right equipment.  Overnight camping trips in the backyard, with scouting troops, or even an experienced outdoorsman can do a lot to improve your skill sets while offering a relatively safe training environment.  There isn't a catch all toolkit that is right for every situation, season, and skill set.

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## Davidlastink

Skills help you survive, gear helps you Thrive. However gear can not replace Skills but Skills can make gear.
A Solid general pack, limited to what you can carry on a hike for 5 hours is the test I like to use. Also remember the less weight in gear the more weight in water I like to carry 3Liters in my water bladder. (Mind you my out of shape 5 hour hike is most likely very different than some one else lol)

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