# Survival > Survival Kits & Survival Products >  justifying using modern technology

## corndog-44

How would you justify using modern technology in the backwoods? I know that this question is much easier to understand if one is born into the backwoods lifestyle. I think it is a matter of "drawing a line" at having things and the modern technology that we do use should be purpose driven. For example; A person would not just "talk" on the phone.They would use the phone for a specific utilitarian purpose, i.e., to order supplies for the farm, to call the doctor or notify a distant family member of a death or major illness in the family. The call would be a conversation of purpose.

----------


## trax

I don't justify anything I do in the backwoods. I use a lot of modern technology too, modern tent, modern rifle, monofilament fishing line, steel ax , knife, snare wire. I even bring a battery operated light  :EEK!: . I know a lot of folks don't but it's  a matter of personal preference to me. What I don't do is pack around a whole lot of unnecessary crap with me, can't plug the waffle maker into a currant bush kind of thinking.

I prefer to not use mechanized equipment...ie quads, motorboats, etc because I think there's too much of that nonsense going on out in the bush and I go there to get away from those kinds of noises.

----------


## Rick

Ditto. As I said elsewhere. It's a personal choice where you stop on the techno. timeline. I'll use anything that is convenient, lightweight and logical. Oh, inexpensive, too. :Big Grin:

----------


## Ole WV Coot

I'll use anything I can beg, borrow or steal. The name of the game is survival. What works for me might not work for you.

----------


## Nativedude

> I don't justify anything I do in the backwoods. . . .What I don't do is pack around a whole lot of unnecessary crap with me, can't plug the waffle maker into a currant bush kind of thinking.
> 
> I prefer to not use mechanized equipment,i.e; quads, motorboats, etc., because I think there's too much of that nonsense going on out in the bush and I go there to get away from those kinds of noises.


Trax is absolutely right! It is a matter of personal preference. I take nothing modern into the woods with me, except for a metal knife. . .on occasion. I prefer to do everything "primitively". From the stone age time period.

I do it just to see if I can, and to see what "new" things I can come up with in the woods. It is more self-gratifying and satisfying for me.

I have taken people out, that have practically everything they own in a backpack. 60 - 80# strapped to their back. 6 and 7 thousand cu in. packs filled to the point where the seams are stressed. Just about every possible piece of modern "survival" technology crammed in there. Once whittled down, and by the end of the trip, these modern "techno-worshipers, realize that they don't need all that equipment to survive, sustain, be secure, and subsist in the woods, and that they can do it, somewhat comfortably, with a minimum amount of "stuff"!

----------


## MCBushbaby

I think the most techy thing I bring is an LED headlamp, though I've been trying to replace it with a candle.  Other than that I suppose my knife and pepsi-can stove are "technology".  Come to think of it my pack is technology.  The question is, I suppose, what counts as modern technology?  Anything you can't make in the bush?  Anything mechanical or driven by gas/electricity?  Are clothes considered technology?

----------


## trax

clothes...yeah, not too many people gamboling about out there in only fur and leather (although there are some as per the posts here) so it's a heck of a good question....what counts as technology? I wore mukluks through a lot of my life as winter footwear, but since I don't have them right now...I sure as h### make sure that I have winter boots and I get to and from where I'm heading out into the wilds in a car for that matter...

I can make a shelter out of saplings but I usually use a tent with those whip-cord poles....obviously whoever designed that used saplings as their model, lol. I guess I'm of a mind that I know I can go primitive but I'll use some of the modern comforts as long as they're available and not more trouble than they are of value.

----------


## Rick

I'm going through a phase currently. I seem to do that from time to time. I did a lot of the techno stuff in the past and I'm getting more and more away from it. Going back to natural fibers (wool) on clothing and getting away from the tent scene. I'll bet everyone here has done the same thing trying to figure out what worked the best for them. I won't compromise on boots. Especially in winter. Cold, numb feet won't get you home. But I'm trending toward doing more with less. My dad always told me to work smarter, not harder. That's especially true when Mother Nature is your boss.

----------


## trax

> I'm going through a phase currently. I seem to do that from time to time.


You'll be ok after your voice changes, but you're probably going to find out that there's hair growing in new places on your body and you're having really strange dreams and you're starting to like girls...just trying to help. :Big Grin:

----------


## Rick

Well, doc. It all started when I entered the telepod and, unbeknownst to me, there was a fly inside it.

----------


## Gray Wolf

> Well, doc. It all started when I entered the telepod and, unbeknownst to me, there was a fly inside it.


And What's Your Problem..........

----------


## Rick

> You'll be ok after your voice changes, but you're probably going to find out that there's hair growing in new places on your body and you're having really strange dreams and you're starting to like girls...just trying to help.


Trax was traxxing me (new word I just invented), per usual I might add, about going through changes.

----------


## DOGMAN

For me, I think the modern stuff (GPS, Sat phone, walky talkies, weather radioes, Bic lighters, etc...) are great things and they work well and help many folks and probably save many lives. However, I think it is important to know how to get by without the modern stuff. Because- eventually if your out long enough your going to suffer from equipment failure. So, its important to know how to get by without that stuff.  The modern stuff can give us a false sense of security- and let us think we are more savy in the woods then we really are.  I look at that stuff as luxury items....sort of like toilet paper- its great to have, I love to use it- but, i know if I have to I can still keep my a$$ comfortable without it.

----------


## Alpine_Sapper

> For me, I think the modern stuff (GPS, Sat phone, walky talkies, weather radioes, Bic lighters, etc...) are great things and they work well and help many folks and probably save many lives. However, I think it is important to know how to get by without the modern stuff. Because- eventually if your out long enough your going to suffer from equipment failure. So, its important to know how to get by without that stuff.  The modern stuff can give us a false sense of security- and let us think we are more savy in the woods then we really are.  I look at that stuff as luxury items....sort of like toilet paper- its great to have, I love to use it- but, i know if I have to I can still keep my a$$ comfortable without it.


Amen. Preach on brother.  :Big Grin:  Seriously, that's how most people should look at it, imho. I know a lot of guys on here are into the fur and stone knife thing. Me, not so much. I do carry tech into the field. Hell, I carry a laptop at times. But I've gone out with people I work with who would have no idea what to do when that $500 GPS craps out, the batteries die, or you have no LOS and don't have a signal.

----------


## klkak

I love my -35 sleeping bag that is warm whether its wet or dry. Whoever designed it should get a medal.

----------


## trax

Know what you mean about the sleeping bag, I've had the same one for almost 30 years, can still sleep outside in the snow in it in -40 or so weather. I think the important thing to remember about modern versus traditional, older equipment is the individual's skill level. If you think you're gonna need it...take it along.

----------


## BruceZed

Were here on the Internet (using our the Electrical System, Computers, Routers, Phone/Cable Lines, Fibre Lines, Telecom Infrastructure, and maybe a Satellite or two) to discuss what modern equipment we should use to teach and or learn survival. Anything your need and that changes depending on the environment and conditions. Learn more skills and practise them more and you will become more confident in the areas of the NA Wilderness you travel in, but modern vs. traditional is completely moot in a real survival situation so don;t let it overwhelm your practising to survive in the wilderness.

----------


## FVR

I'm a pretty primitive guy, but in a survival situation, it's not a game, it's life and death.  So, concerning modern tech., all is fair.


Primitive skills is fun, but realistically, it does not matter if I'm dead because of an ego thing.

----------


## Arkansas_Ranger

> How would you justify using modern technology in the backwoods? I know that this question is much easier to understand if one is born into the backwoods lifestyle. I think it is a matter of "drawing a line" at having things and the modern technology that we do use should be purpose driven. For example; A person would not just "talk" on the phone.They would use the phone for a specific utilitarian purpose, i.e., to order supplies for the farm, to call the doctor or notify a distant family member of a death or major illness in the family. The call would be a conversation of purpose.


Using Gore-Tex, fleece, Thinsulate, nylon, Velcro, etc is all "modern technology."  Yeah, if I built a house in the woods, even if it were solar powered and "off the grid" I'd still get a satellite, phone, and internet.  Why knock it?  It's not hurting you to have it.  You're here now because of this blasted modern technology.

----------


## Alpine_Sapper

> Using Gore-Tex, fleece, Thinsulate, nylon, Velcro, etc is all "modern technology."  Yeah, if I built a house in the woods, even if it were solar powered and "off the grid" I'd still get a satellite, phone, and internet.  Why knock it?  It's not hurting you to have it.  You're here now because of this blasted modern technology.


Just to further your point, how long have solar panels to power electricity been around?

----------


## Arkansas_Ranger

> Just to further your point, how long have solar panels to power electricity been around?


I don't know what you're saying here.  I love modern technology.  I'm all for what solar panels and electricity.

----------


## Alpine_Sapper

> I don't know what you're saying here.  I love modern technology.  I'm all for what solar panels and electricity.


Agreed. That was why I started it with "Just to further your point..."

I was talking about the "off-the grid, don't need no stinking modern technology" types of folks. but a lot of them want solar panels and generators. Hmmm...

A more direct to the point response to them would probably be "WTF are you doing using a computer to access the internet then?" But my feelings are that if you ( and this isn't *you*, but a general forum population of neo-luddites "you" ) are so fed up with technology and society and the social workings of todays society, LEAVE, with a loin cloth and a stick. no firearms. Gunpowder is a technology that man has invented, and it came from *gasp* the *CHINESE*!!! Oh NOES! Blades are a technology...how long did it take us to mine metal and learn to make it into something useful?  Oops, no snare wires, gotta use vines. No 550 cord. No firestarters...Hope you practiced the bow drill... Anyway, I was just answering your question and it turned into a rant on stupid people. Sorry.

----------


## DOGMAN

Imagine the day back in prehistory when the bow and arrow was invented.  I wonder if all the other people around debated using it?  Even the most primative of tools were at one-time cutting edge modern technology.  Imagine the converstation....

Caveman 1: Have you seen that new small spear flinging contraption Bill invented?
Caveman 2: yah, that thing is sweet, I've gotta make me one.

Caveman 1: Not me man, I like to get real close to the things I kill and eat, I love the feel of jabbing a spear right into a Mammoth's arse!
Caveman 2: Well, I have a wife and kid to think about, I think this new technology is safer then stickin' 'em in the arse.

Cavemen 1: Well thats the difference between you and me pal. I am a Neo-Luddite and I don't use these modern things.
Caveman 2: Uh, ok. I'll make sure they carve that into your tombstone.

In a real Survival situation using the most efficent technology you can get your hands on only makes sense.

----------


## Rick

"A bow huh? So how does this stupid thing work."
"Hold the wooden part and pull back on the cord."
"Okay."
"Now, let it go."
SMACK!
"NO! Let the cord end go."
"You and your new technology crap."

----------


## crashdive123

> Imagine the day back in prehistory when the bow and arrow was invented.  I wonder if all the other people around debated using it?  Even the most primative of tools were at one-time cutting edge modern technology.  Imagine the converstation....
> 
> Caveman 1: Have you seen that new small spear flinging contraption Bill invented?
> Caveman 2: yah, that thing is sweet, I've gotta make me one.
> 
> Caveman 1: Not me man, I like to get real close to the things I kill and eat, I love the feel of jabbing a spear right into a Mammoth's arse!
> Caveman 2: Well, I have a wife and kid to think about, I think this new technology is safer then stickin' 'em in the arse.
> 
> Cavemen 1: Well thats the difference between you and me pal. I am a Neo-Luddite and I don't use these modern things.
> ...


My morning chuckle - thanks.

----------


## Tahyo

I use anything that is of utilitarian value anywhere I can, backwoods included.

----------


## Alpine_Sapper

> I use anything that is of utilitarian value anywhere I can, backwoods included.


Thus says the flamethrower guy...  :Big Grin:

----------


## Arkansas_Ranger

> Agreed. That was why I started it with "Just to further your point..."
> 
> I was talking about the "off-the grid, don't need no stinking modern technology" types of folks. but a lot of them want solar panels and generators. Hmmm...
> 
> A more direct to the point response to them would probably be "WTF are you doing using a computer to access the internet then?" But my feelings are that if you ( and this isn't *you*, but a general forum population of neo-luddites "you" ) are so fed up with technology and society and the social workings of todays society, LEAVE, with a loin cloth and a stick. no firearms. Gunpowder is a technology that man has invented, and it came from *gasp* the *CHINESE*!!! Oh NOES! Blades are a technology...how long did it take us to mine metal and learn to make it into something useful?  Oops, no snare wires, gotta use vines. No 550 cord. No firestarters...Hope you practiced the bow drill... Anyway, I was just answering your question and it turned into a rant on stupid people. Sorry.



LOL.  Well, when I first opened the thread I too thought "WTF are you doing using a computer" and "luddites."  I'm guessing most people in the general populus aren't aware of what luddites are since it isn't an everyday term.  Glad you brought in.

----------


## Pict

I haven't read the other posts so forgive me if I'm being redundant.

When I take people out to the bush I don't let them keep their cell phones on.  They keep them off and in a sealed bag for emergency use only.  Likewise there are no radios, MP3's etc allowed either.  I thini it is important for them to have a break from life back home or the don't enter into the spirit of the adventure.  Part of the reason they are out there is to get back to their 1.0 level programming and get to know who they are without the largely false identity they have surrounded themselves with in "normal life".

From a skills point of view I don't like it when people are out in the bush far beyond their personal capabilities dependant on some piece of modern technology for their critical survival needs.  The GPS is a main offender here.  Great piece of high tech but if you don't know how to navigate without it you can find yourself very lost. Mac

----------


## Tahyo

My Grandfather was probably the best teachers I could have ever had for looking at everything, new or old and seeing what other things could it be used for other than what it was intended for.  I can remember that old Coonass buying a couple of brand new trucks through out his life, bringing them home and making what I call these days a "Hillbilly Camper".  I had friends that would laugh at us at times, but when I look back and think of just how rich he made us, not in monetary terms, but in simple pleasures, experiences and the imagination to improvise with everything no matter how old or how modern something is, I think I get the last laugh and even more so if a SHTF scenario comes when I think about some of those friends now and just shake my head knowing that most would be some of the first casualties.

A great many of you spend a lot of time preparing and preparing for something that may or may not happen and I do too, but a very important aspect of any survival scenario is also having the confidence to make do with what you have or create something from things around you.  I think most of you know this already.  This message board is a tool.  I've seen many a pretty good idea posted here that I look at and think, "yep... that'd work and what if you took and did this or that?"  Bad ideas sometimes lead to good ideas and those can lead to great ideas.

I'm sort of getting way off track here and rambling, but this thread just made me think of this.  

Here's a pic of my grandfather and one of his homemade campers in the back left.  What it doesn't show is the inside amenities which were legendary in our eyes.

Clickable thumbnail.... May be a large file for anyone with dial up.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Ken

Tahyo, your grandfather drank Schlitz?!?  Allllright!  He's had to be a bright guy who set himself apart from the crowd.   :Big Grin:   In the 70's, I was the ONLY one in my crowd that drank Schlitz.  Everyone else drank that weak skunk p*ss they make in St. Louis. *waits for all the Bud drinkers to chime in.....*

----------


## Rick

He gets my vote. Any man that likes Schlitz is a friend of mine. Man, that and PBR is about all we ever drank in high school. Oh, and the occasional Falstaff.

----------


## Ken

Golly, Rick.   :EEK!:   You and me.  We're _Friends_?  :Smile:

----------


## Rick

You bet, Kenny. To the end....which might wind up being pretty darn soon if I don't get some lobster, ole buddy.

----------


## Ken

> You bet, Kenny. To the end....which might wind up being pretty darn soon if I don't get some lobster, ole buddy.


Dang!  Rick, please don't go killing yourself just 'cause you don't have any lobster!

Bye the way, only my Mom, my brothers, and my CLOSEST friends call me "Kenny."   :Big Grin:   So, I see you're really taking this ole buddy stuff seriously.  If I only had the strength to place the order.   :Wink:   Can't.  Too weak.  No food.  Wasting away to nothing.  Maybe some Ribs, Coleslaw, or Barbeque would help........ :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Tahyo

I drank Schlitz up until they stopped brewing it.  Then I learned about crafted beer and drink that now, but make no mistake about it, if what I hear is true that they are suppose to start brewing it again... I'll surely have some for old times sake.

----------


## Tahyo

Other beer I grew up on.  Falstaff and Jax.

----------


## Ken

> I drank Schlitz up until they stopped brewing it.  Then I learned about crafted beer and drink that now, but make no mistake about it, if what I hear is true that they are suppose to start brewing it again... I'll surely have some for old times sake.


Tahyo! THEY ARE BREWING IT AGAIN!!!!  Yep, it's back on the market and it still tastes the same!  I saw it in a local place about 2 years ago and still buy it regularly.   :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

----------


## klkak

The modern equipment I use is better then the stuff it replaced. For instance, the modern sleeping bag I use now is "far and away" better then the downbag I used to use. I like the tarp made of modern material that I have better then the canvas tarp I used to carry. I do have a very old Swiss made single burner stove that I like and use because it uses the same fuel as the ATV's I use for work. It is nice only having to carry one type of fuel.

----------


## crashdive123

Schlitz and PBR.....fond memories.  Went through a phase of Sclitz Dark on tap...yummmmm.

----------


## Ken

Schlitz dark?  Never tried it or even heard of it.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   Time for Google.  :Cool:

----------


## crashdive123

> Schlitz dark?  Never tried it or even heard of it.    Time for Google.


Started drinking it at the Marine Tavern in Red Bank, New Jersey in 1972 (only place I could get served)(really PO'd because they kept getting shut down for bookmaking)

----------


## Rick

That doesn't even sound good.

----------


## Ken

Well, I just saw that you can buy old Schlitz Dark tap handles on-line.  Now, about that beer.........

----------


## Tahyo

> The modern equipment I use is better then the stuff it replaced. For instance, the modern sleeping bag I use now is "far and away" better then the downbag I used to use. I like the tarp made of modern material that I have better then the canvas tarp I used to carry. I do have a very old Swiss made single burner stove that I like and use because it uses the same fuel as the ATV's I use for work. It is nice only having to carry one type of fuel.


I've got a couple of things that were tried and true back in the day, but some of them I have replaced with much better results.  Sleeping bag is just one of several.  Tarps too.

----------


## Rick

Ditto. I know Frank and Beo like their mocks but I'll take the new boots anyday. Same for my water filter and stove.

----------


## wildWoman

I think there's a bit of a difference between being on a camping trip and living in the bush. When I go paddling or hiking, I don't have any gadgets like a GPS or sat phone with me. Sometimes, I bring my camera.
For living in the bush, I don't know of anyone who doesn't use some technlogical items. Everybody I know out in the bush has at least four of the following items: skidoo, motorboat, ATV or plane, generator and chainsaw. Also I'd say that bush people spend a fair bit of time on the phone, radio or internet, because that's the only way to keep in touch with others of the species. We're probably all somewhat anti-social and crabby, but not to the extent where we only use telecommunication to order in a chopper when we cut a leg off with the chainsaw (wouldn't happen so easy with a hand saw, I know!).

----------


## Rick

(chuckle) You'd have to be pretty intent on loosing a leg to cut it off with a hand saw. :Big Grin: 

By Gawd, I said you're comin' off and I mean it!

----------


## crashdive123

> Well, I just saw that you can buy old Schlitz Dark tap handles on-line.  Now, about that beer.........


Smooooooooth.

----------


## Ken

Kinda' like a Porter?

----------


## crashdive123

Heck, I don't remember - I was 16.

----------


## Ken

When you don't drink enough, the memory is the first thing to go.  Right, Trax?  :Big Grin:

----------


## Rick

You were talkin' to Crash, Ken. Apparently, you serve as your own example. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Ken

Nope.  I was asking Trax for a second opinion.  Chemicals. :Smile:

----------


## Rick

Oh, sure. Now you are. Now that you've been called out. Uhuh.

----------


## crashdive123

I think you are just contributing to the deliquency of a min........never mind - it was 36 years ago.  Not sure about the memory going first, but the arthritis is killing me. :Big Grin:  :Mad:  :Big Grin:

----------


## Ken

> Oh, sure. Now you are. Now that you've been called out. Uhuh.


Let me guess.  Back in grammar school, you were the kid who wanted to sit closest to the teacher, weren't you?   :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Ken

> I think you are just contributing to the deliquency of a min........never mind - it was 36 years ago.  Not sure about the memory going first, but the arthritis is killing me.


Get some CryoDerm.  It comes in a 4 oz. pump spray bottle.  Relieves deep down pain.  Works great.  And it's A FLORIDA COMPANY!  

www.cryoderm.com

----------


## Rick

Actually, I spent a lot of time in the cloak room by myself. Awwww those were the good old  days.

----------


## DOGMAN

Don't forget- Stag Beer, Blatz and of course Billy Beer

----------


## crashdive123

Had a can of Billy Beer ---- tasted like peanuts.

----------


## Ken

Billy Beer:  Flat. Tasteless.  Weak.  Not worth the $1.75 or so it cost for a six-pack of the stuff back then.

Hmmm. May still have an empty can around somewhere in my collection.  :Confused:

----------


## Alpine_Sapper

> Actually, I spent a lot of time in the cloak room by myself. Awwww those were the good old  days.


Soooooo, what grade were you in when you finally came out of the closet and started socializing?  :Big Grin:

----------


## Ken

> Soooooo, what grade were you in when you finally came out of the closet and started socializing?


YES!  YES, YES, YES!  A Grand Slam!   :Big Grin:

----------


## nell67

> Soooooo, what grade were you in when you finally came out of the closet and started socializing?


 
Awwww,Alpine,you didn't really go there, :EEK!: LMAO!

----------


## Rick

Hey, I wasn't in there by choice. The teacher sat my desk in there and told me how special I was. What she didn't know was I was collecting all the lunch money and picking out what I liked from the lunch boxes.

----------


## crashdive123

Uh...that would have been my story too. :Big Grin:

----------


## Rick

Well I'll be danged! You, too? Small world.

----------


## Beo

Somehow I missed this posting, hmmm.
For me I go pretty primitive when trekking with my group, we do 1750s to 1770s nothing modern after that. I do however go with others and we use modern equipment. Its a personal choice and there really is no line. 
I go primitive with the COHT or the Coalition of Historical Trekkers: as living historians dedicated to the preservation and study of the pre-1860 frontier people in America. We see ourselves as experimental archaeologists, involved in one or more eras of the historical time frame from 1600 to the year 1860. As is the purpose of an archaeologist, to establish facts about a historical people or time period, we research the lifeways of the pre-1860 frontier people who lived in, fought for, and founded this country. Our research is accompanied by experimentation in historical situations, using the foods, tools, clothing, weapons, and methods authentic to those used by the early frontier people here in America. Believing that the best way to preserve history is to share it, we communicate this research and the results of our experimentation with others through educational events and publications dedicated to pre-1860 America. We pledge to keep alive the awareness of those brave people who lived and died while carving out a place in the wilderness. We recognize that it was these brave men and women who made it possible for us, and generations to come, to live here in the land of the free-America. We have done this for the boy scouts up to college classes, and even ROTC classes, my group does the 1750s to 1770s era only and we do no battle reenactments, usually going out in groups of five, ten, or even as many as thirty one time and spiltting up into smaller groups. Its a really good time.

----------


## trax

> Don't forget- Stag Beer, Blatz and of course Billy Beer


Al Pacino in _Scent of a Woman_ (ordering beer for Chris O'Donnell) "Schlitz. No Schlitz, Blatz. No Blatz...improvise"

----------


## sobeit

> Al Pacino in _Scent of a Woman_ (ordering beer for Chris O'Donnell) "Schlitz. No Schlitz, Blatz. No Blatz...improvise"


Thank God Texas has Shiner Bock, I have a six pack of billy beer you thank it' safe to drank

----------


## dragonjimm

any of you local cajuns remember jax beer.

worst hang over i ever had was from drinking 40 oz malt beer i had 2. :Big Grin:

----------


## dragonjimm

and i like modern for getting things done but i also enjoy primitive ways makes you appreciate the modern and its just enjoyable to me.

@beo...there is a  living history group close by here i'm thinking of joining.
they do a lot with schools and scouts. they cover time periods from colonial America through WWII and Native Americans.

----------

