# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Making Stuff > How-to Tutorials Only >  Braintanning the simple (or overcomplicated) way

## your_comforting_company

Just the sound of it makes ladies everywhere gag and ask "you used WHAT?!" :Dead: 
　
Let me break it down as best I can. Skin is composed of some really basic, but complicated, components. All matter is made of atoms and molecules and *the bonds formed between shared electrons*. Skin is no exception.
Lucky for us the main constituent is loose hydrogen bonds that fill the space between the fibers with mucus or "ground substance". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collagen

Once the skin is flushed, either by decomposition, prolonged soaking, salting, or soaking in an alkali solution, it is ready to bind with new things because all it's building blocks are polarized, sort of like a magnet.

Brain itself is primarily made of amino acids. Acids are the opposite of alkali meaning they will add a + end of one molecule, to bind with the - end of the skin fibers. The advantage to this is that amino acids are fatty acids. That's right, greasy. They make an excellent conditioner for your hands and are used in lots of different cosmetic products (amino acids, not brains lol). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acids
Amino acids are theoretically the "building blocks of life" in science circles. How convenient!

Our medium is water. The mucus in the skin is mostly water. The bucking is done with a water solution, and the brains will be in solution in water. What makes this great is that water evaporates and is NOT polar so it doesn't actually bind on a molecular level with any of our work. Water is truly an amazing thing!

But this is only part of the actual process. Brains won't actually tan the skin. They only serve as a lubricant and stabilizer for the skin. *The actual tan comes from wood smoke*. Smoke contains (among many other things) different forms of formaldehyde, primarily glutaraldehyde gas, which happens to also be a polar molecule! Also very convenient!

If you brain a skin, then wash it before it is smoked, the brains wash out and you are back to square one. Why? because your molecules are not complete! For this to work you need your stuff to become insoluble in water, that is to say, stable so they won't "unbind" and wash out. Smoke is that last key element. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde

These are the basic elements of braintanning. It is a laborious process and while this makes it seem really scientific and complicated, with this basic understanding the rest of the process will really make sense. *By understanding why doing something works, we open ourselves up to a whole new level of experimenting, learning, and growing*. 
　
*Also, to make a special note here. There are many recipes for making braintan buckskin. I have tried different methods and techniques, and I've weighed the results against my own scales and figured out what produces the results I like. This is what works for me. I do not want this to turn into any sort of argument or spitting contest. If you do things differently and think my method is wrong, *feel free to start a new thread showing how you do it*. The process is daunting and confusing enough to the uninitiated without 10 different people interrupting with 10 different methods.
 
_It is not the method, but the science behind the method that makes it work_.

----------


## wareagle69

excellent article YCC, explains the procces well, but all i could hear in my head as i was reading this was dr sheldon coopers voice, man i gotta quit watching tv.

As my journey continues as a trapper i will be looking to start tanning hides and make my own clothing, so expect allot of questions in the next year my freind
WE

----------


## your_comforting_company

To clarify, this will cover the wet scrape method. It is more intuitive, and self regulating, and can be done without paying a great deal of attention to what you are doing. This means you can talk with friends, listen to music, etc. without worrying about being distracted.

Dry scrape is a method that requires diligence! you would be using *very sharp tools* which makes it very easy to cut into or through the hide. It also requires a frame to stretch the skin very tight.
Wet scrape uses *dull tools*, making it nearly impossible to cut into the hide, or hurt yourself. I prefer wet-scrape method, and according to Mr. Kirkland, an estimated 80% of skins tanned by native Americans were done by wet-scrape. It is very hard to sharpen a bone or stone and get the edge needed to shave a hide with the dry-scrape method.

This post will deal with the tools used in wet-scrape braintanning.
First thing you'll need is a *knife* (stone, bone, or steel) to skin the deer, either on the ground, or hung by the head. Some folks prefer to hang it upside down, but I find that to be skinning "against the grain" and I usually have to fight meat away from the skin. If you go from the top down, everything comes off like a button-up shirt. Please refer to the skinning thread for more information.

Next you'll need *containers*. 5-gallon buckets with lids work very well when doing one or two hides at a time. For 3 or more hides, larger containers will be necessary. Since you are reading this, I'm going to assume this is your first time braintanning, and that you will only be doing one hide at a time. *Running water* from a tap, or creek is also going to be a necessary item on your list.

A *dull tool*, like the back of a machete, or a piece of iron bar that has been "squared" on the corners, will suffice as a scraping tool, both for the fleshing, and graining/membraning steps. The ulna-radius bone from the deer itself is the ideal tool for the job, because it came with the deer, BUT it will require frequent sharpening (not really sharp!) because the skin is quite like a razorstrap that you would use to sharpen a straightrazor. For all practical purposes, an old draw-knife works wonderfully and usually are already dull enough from use on wood to require nothing more than a little touching up. The main thing to remember is the tool should be dull enough to just barely shave a bit of thumbnail. I use my great- grandad's old drawknife most times, though I have made a curved tool I use for fleshing.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

The item that complements your scraper is the *scraping beam*. PVC makes an ideal scraping beam. In times past, logs without knots or bark were used. A tripod or prop of some sort should be employed if using it in a horizontal position, which is what I prefer. I've read about much success in using the beam in an upright position, but I prefer to have the work in front of me and below my sternum so that I can put sufficient pressure on the work, and maintain the proper angle of the tool.

Also of note, is that the neck and rumps of a deer are thick and tough. I use two different sizes of PVC. To start off, I use a 3" beam for the neck. Less surface area means more concentrated pressure and effort. It works sort of like lbs per square inch. Once the neck is done, I swap over to a 6" beam for the rest of the hide.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Though it is not required, I recommend soaking the hide in an *alkali solution* to aid in grain removal. Hardwood ashes work very well, but you can also use hydrated lime, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Hydroxide, Sodium hydroxide, Potassium hydroxide... There are quite a few things out there that will work. I prefer wood ashes, though they can stain the skin if not cleaned well. If ashes aren't available, I go with pickling lime. A brown egg will be helpful in determining the concentration of your bucking solution. 

Some folks swear by framing a skin, and I admit I used to do it (and still do sometimes), so if you choose to use a frame you'll need, not only the *frame*, but also a LOT of *cordage*, a *staking tool*, and a "buffer" like *pumice or sandstone*. Keep in mind that once a wet skin is framed, you are committed! It's pretty hard to find a bag big enough to put over a frame to keep the skin from drying overnight! I have made a staker/buffer hybrid tool for use when opening a skin after wringing. (sorry no pic yet)

If you choose to hand stretch your skin (preferred), all you need is the buffer, and a bag to store it in if you want to take a break. This method produces the softest, stretchiest buckskins. It will have a lot of "bounce" and be as soft as chamois.

You will need a place to wring water and excess brains from the skin. This can be a pole strung between two trees, or a simple frame like from a baby swing (what I use). You will need another stick to actually twist for the wringing. Any stick will do as long as it doesn't have sharp points that will cut, poke or tear the hide.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Additionally, if your hide has holes, you will need a *leather needle*, and *strong thread*, like artificial (or real) sinew. It is possible to make holes almost completely disappear. I bet you couldn't tell my abo shirt had holes in it!

There are several other tools that some folks use, like a cable for stretching / buffing, but I won't include those here. I will try to remember to give mention to them en passe as we come to those steps. Some are utilitarian, some are whimsy, and some are just downright useless. I wonder sometimes if they were part of a cruel joke, like an initiation rite, LOL.

One other handy item to have around is a *friend*. For me, this is mostly a solitary endeavor as most people are grossed out by the process. It's nice to have a little comforting company around to distract you from the droning process, and help with little things like rinsing, or passing your cup of coffee, or keeping the fire stoked.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Actually, WE, questions will help make sure this thread is as complete as possible. I welcome any questions and comments, and offer my assistance to all who would try this.

----------


## your_comforting_company

After your deer is skinned, and processed, you will need to remove the extra meat and fat from the skin before proceeding.

This is really a straightforward process, and all you need is a beam to support the skin, and a dull tool to plow the meat and fat off. Meat will go rancid rather quickly and can spoil your bucking solution, and fat can cause "grease burn" and make some aweful stains in the skin.

The picture above shows the beam setup and some tools I use for fleshing. RWC1969 has made an excellent video showing this process, so with his permission, this video shows it better than I could describe it. It really is a simple process, so check out his video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RflPvyT-olM

I suggest using the items below when fleshing. Depending on how good a job you did skinning, this can get all over your clothes and will ruin a good pair of boots. Wear clothing that's okay to get dirty, and old shoes that you won't mind getting wet!

Also of note: we will be working with gross stuff, and dangerous chemicals. A few safety items should be mentioned here.

Apron, to keep grossness off your clothing.
Rubber boots
rubber gloves, don't want corrosive chemicals on your hands!

Though admittedly I don't wear safety glasses, I do recommend them for the dangers involved in using lye solutions!

----------


## your_comforting_company

I don't know who came up with the term "bucking" but it sounds more like a wild ride on a mad-as-hell bull than a liesurely soak in a bucket.

It serves to flush all the loose bonds out of the skin and leave the skin in an attractive (magnetic.. sort of) state. Soaking in an alkali solution removes all the shared bonds in the skin and makes precipitate salts in the water. We are working with materials that can be caustic and corrosive, so it is imperative that you take proper safety precautions!

There are many alkaline solutions out there, most of them artificial reproductions of chemicals that occur otherwise naturally. Probably the most familiar is Potassium Hydroxide, KOH-, also known as household lye. It is a VERY potent caustic material so if you choose to use it make damn sure you have your safety gear on and ESPECIALLY wear safety glasses!! I cannot stress that enough! Please use good sense and all safety precautions!!

A less corrosive material is pickling lime, or hydrated lime. It is available at most grocery stores and is usually found on the canning aisle. Although it is much less potent and dangerous than lye, I still recommend gloves and an apron.

In my humble opinion, hardwood ashes are the BEST solution to use, mostly because they are free and natural. What you don't use will return to the earth naturally, and it can be used as fertilizer in your garden or flower bed. After being used on a skin it will have a good deal of organic matter (in it's smallest form) which is also great for the soil.

Whichever agent you choose, you are dealing with the OH- part of the chemicals. Hydroxides are ionic compounds that are reactive with a wide range of otherwise stable materials. OH- really wants to be neutral and to accomplish that, it will rob a hydrogen molecule from wherever it can find one, and become H2O, Dihydrogen monoxide. For those not so chemically inclined, that translates to WATER.

When I don't have ashes to use, I use pickling lime. Many fertilizers contain the same ingredients, and I think it is worth mentioning that slaked lime, Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) is the active ingredient in Tums antacid tablets. Theoretically, Tums or Rolaids could be used to buck a hide. (only in theory, I have not tried it!)

If using pickling lime, about half a pound per hide is sufficient. If using wood ashes, you will need to check your pH concentration because different woods will contain different amounts of the chemicals. Too low of a concentration will do basically nothing to the skin. Too high a concentration will eat the skin. Litmus paper is not quite accurate enough for measuring this because the pH scale is exponential.
Litmus paper can tell you that your pH is 12.0 - 12.9 but less than 13.0, but it cannot tell you that it is exactly 12.9 (which is our ideal pH). That being said, I should explain that 12.1 is 10x as strong as 12.0

We can use a simple test that was discovered back in pioneer days to determine our pH based on the specific gravity of an egg. Egg shells are primarily composed of calcium. I'm not sure about the details on how this works precisely, but I do know that it works well.

Chemical substitutes can reach only a certain concentration in water. Beyond that concentration any excess will precipitate out (with the exception of KOH, or household lye). Wood ashes are much like KOH and can reach very high concentrations. If using pickling lime, use more than you think you'll need. Any excess will settle out and every time you stir it, the concentration will come back up.

Since I primarily use wood ashes, mostly from oak I use the simple egg test.

Fill your bucking bucket (that sounds funny) about halfway with ashes and add about one and a half to two gallons of water. Stir well and wait for the ashes to settle and the water to rise to the top. While you wait, it's a good time to test your egg. Just as Winnie suggested about floating an egg in tap water to see if it's good to cook, you should test your egg. If it floats in tap water, the egg is no good.

When your ashes have settled and enough water is on top, tilt your bucket over to the side enough to have room for the egg to actually float. *If the egg sinks in the ash-buck then your solution is too weak*. Add more ashes, stir, allow to settle, and check again. If *the egg floats and rolls over on it's side, the solution is too strong*. Add a little more water (a cup or two), stir, settle and test again.
What you want here is for your egg to float, suspended upright in the solution, with as much surface exposed as a quarter to half-dollar.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Once you have properly floated your egg (this can be frustrating!) stick your hide in making sure all surfaces are completely covered with ash-buck. I recommend wearing gloves since this solution is corrosive. If you have any sores on your hands they will feel like they are on FIRE. Take my word for it, I've been known to do stupid things from time to time. I believe it was Mark McGuire who said, "Never make the same mistake once". In other words, LEARN FROM OTHER PEOPLES MISTAKES!

The amount of time required to buck a hide (flush it out) varies from hide to hide, and with temperatures. Cold makes everything move more slowly (even me!) and hot makes things work more quickly (except for me!).

Typically a large buck will take 4 or 5 days in milder climates (60 degrees) and significantly more in colder places. A small doe might only take 1 or 2 days. This lends to the toughness of the skin and the animal from which it came. Bucks seem to have tougher and thicker skin whereas does are more tender and thin.

It's best to check twice a day on the progress of your hide, stirring each time. You'll know your hide is ready to be scraped when you can rub some hair off with your fingers. I haven't taken a picture of a bucked hide with slipping, but I will be sure to take one on the next skin I tan. The solution that is closest to the hide will neutralize first, so stirring makes sure that you always have high concentrations near the skin.

RWC1969 has another video here showing the bucking phase and does some good explaining. Check out his video to see what the process looks like in the bucket! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTTumhFU2D0

----------


## your_comforting_company

Once the skin is sufficiently bucked you are ready to remove the "hard part" of the skin. This is where your beam and draw-knife will really prove themselves.

Skin is layered, much like the bark of a tree. Hopefully a written explanation will describe it well enough, but if not you can just google "layers of skin" and find a wealth of diagrams and pictures. 

The outermost layer is not skin at all, but is keratin, another protein chain! Keratin is much like collagen in it's raw form though it is not broken down so easily. Another word we use to describe this layer is HAIR. If your hide has properly bucked, the hair will wipe right off in most places with a swipe of your hand or a gentle rub of your tool.

Moving inward, the next layer is the epidermis. It is composed mostly of dead skin cells and is the body's first line of defense against microbial intruders. It is very thin and often resembles dirt or mud under the hair. It usually will rub off with the hair, leaving the hard layer shiny and visible.

The hard layer is called the "grain". This is where we make the distinction between utility type leathers and suede type leathers. Buckskin does not have the grain layer left on. It is a very tightly woven layer of skin and is the second line of defense. This is where the mucus starts to do it's job, keeping the skin pliable, yet impermeable. The grain and mucus together are primarily responsible for keeping out bad stuff. Since the animal isn't using it anymore, we will remove it to make _very soft material_. The grain is the shiny part on your boots and is removed from your suede tennis shoes. This example alone is enough to explain why we remove it!

Below the grain is the fiber network. It is composed primarily of many loose collagen fibers, filled with mucus. After bucking, the mucus is removed (read neutralized) and we are left with soft, bouncy material much like chamois. The fiber network is the layer we want to isolate and use for our clothing.

Below the fiber network is the membrane. It is exactly opposite of the fiber network in composition, being primarily mucus, with a few loose collagen fibers and some connective tissue. Most of this part is removed in the fleshing phase, and most often there are only a few tatty fibers left on. It's not a big issue as long as there is NO FAT OR MEAT. All that should have been removed BEFORE bucking!!

A dull draw-knife will serve you well here. Another option for you primitive-style folks is to use the ulna-radius bone (in deer they are fused together into one bone!). Your draw-knife should be just barely sharp enough to cut into your thumbnail. If it's too sharp you can cut holes into your fiber network while scraping.

Scraping with the lay of the hair is preferred. That is to say: start at the neck and work toward the tail. I use a 3" beam to start the neck. The grain is attached really well to the fiber network on the neck area and it takes a great deal of effort to start scraping. A smaller beam will give you less surface area and less resistance to the pressure you apply. The neck is the only part of the skin that I scrape against the lay, and only enough to turn the skin around and work with the lay.

If your tool is too sharp you will cut into the skin!! It might be necessary to dull it before you start. Once the neck is scraped using your 3" beam, swap over to a larger size beam and continue to scrape. I like to use a 6" beam for a wider swath with each pass of my tool. Each pass of your tool should overlap the last scraping, just slightly, and work each side of your "cleaned" area. I normally will run a strip straight down the backbone, and work outward (toward the sides of the skin) from there.

While it's hard to tell exactly what's happening in this picture, you can clearly see part of the skin peeling off. That is the grain being removed from the fiber network. You see, the grain and fiber network connect to each other in what is called the "papillary layer". It is a tiny section between the two layers where they fit together like egg cartons stacked inside one another. The disadvantage to wet scraping is that the lowermost part of the grain will be left at the papillary layer just above the fiber network.
This is why it is recommended to scrape the hide TWICE OR MORE. I can usually get by with two scrapings, and I've read about a few folks who can do it in one pass, but I prefer NOT to find white streaks after I smoke the hide, so whether I think I did a good job on the first pass or not, I scrape AT LEAST TWICE over the whole hide.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

You can tell that on the left hand side how the hide looks dull and even a little browner than the shiny whitish right side. The left side has been scraped down to the fiber network, and the right side still has the grain on. hopefully you can also see the stripes from overlapping the strokes of my drawknife. You'll also notice near the bottom of the picture, and near the center just below my drawknife the layer that has been scraped off. It is rather like a fruit roll-up, but in shreds lol. This is the grain of the skin. On animals it is significantly thicker than humans, which is why it's far less noticable when we cut ourselves.

I will do my best to get a better picture (or hopefully a video) of the next skin I scrape, since this one was not taken with a very good camera, and in poor light.

Once your hide has been grained, flip it over and scrape over the flesh side to remove any more membrane and connective tissues that might have been missed in the fleshing stage. This part is usually very fast.

Many people recommend rinsing before this step, but I find that rinsing before graining allows the hide to "unswell" and leave a lot of grain in the papillary layer. By scraping before rinsing, you are working closely with caustic solution, BUT in my experience it makes grain removal much easier and scraping goes much deeper, leaving very little of the grain at the papillary junction. *The more grain that is left on the hide, the stiffer it will be.*

Rinsing is easy enough, all you need is running water and/or a container. Soak in clean water and then wring it out. 

To wring the water out drape the skin over your wringing pole with about 6" of the rump end hanging over the back and the grain side toward the outside (down; It's inside, touching the pole now). Bring the neck end under and back over the top of your wringing pole and let about 6" hang over the front. Now your skin resembles a sloppy tube. Start at each side and roll it toward the middle. This is a lot like rolling up your sleeves. Put your wringing stick through the bottom of the hide and twist clockwise until you absolutely cannot twist it any further. Don't worry, you cannot break or tear the hide unless it has lots of knife marks or holes in it. *Really, you can't hurt it!!*
Untwist the hide and twist counterclockwise until you cannot twist any further. Give it a few minutes to drip. A towel will prove usefull to collect excess water that doesn't want to run off. Untwist your hide knot.
Rotate the hide over your wringing pole 1/4 turn, and repeat the above process untill you have gone all the way around the hide. That means you have twisted 8 times altogether in 4 different positions around the hide.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


I like to dunk it back in the water and rinse again. Remember we are working with balances, and in order to rinse the buck out completely you'll need the water and hide to reach the same pH, preferrably 7.0. When you think the hide is rinsed and wrung enough, you are ready to open it up and brain it!

The hide will have lots of wrinkles in it at this point and I like to use pretty much whatever I can find to stretch it over: the back of a chair, a boat paddle, a dull shovel. Lots of things will work for this, basically you want to pull all the wrinkle-lines out of it as best you can, and let the hide dry ever so slightly. A wet hide will look white, too dry will look brown, and "just right" is somewhere in the middle, "tawny". Once you have your hands on it, it's self explanatory and very easy to see the differences. The hide needs to be just dry enough to soak up the brain solution.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Now is the fun / gross part. This is where the _magic_ happens and you see that sloppy wet 10lbs of flesh turn into this fluffy, soft, light material. 

Once the skin has been properly prepared it will accept the protein based oils from the brains, which will bind into a new "lubricated" fiber. You see, collagen has a "glue" in it that causes it to "wax over" as it dries. This is where the distinction is made for rawhide. Rawhide is not oiled or worked soft. The glues in the skin are allowed to set up and make a very stiff, body-armor type of leather. Rawhide is semi-transparent because of this "waxing".
　
We don't want our clothing to be able to stand on it's own, so by adding a protien-based oil that is attracted to the collagen fibers and keeping the fibers moving we produce soft material. The oil allows two things to happen: The glues in each collagen fiber become contained and isolated to each fiber, so it stops the "rawhide effect", and it allows each fiber to move freely among the other fibers around it.
　
I will touch on using soap and eggs later, and some of the less practical oils, but only in theory because I have not used anything but brains.
　
The saying goes, "The good Lord made all the animals to have enough brains to tan their own hide, except buffalo and some people I know". Since most of you will be using deer skins, You most likely have the brain that came with the deer, which is the perfect amount. If you don't have that particular brain, check with game processors who will usually let you get all the doe heads you want. You might check your local grocer or meat market also, as they often sell hog brains in a 1lb tub. Brains are brains and they are all made out of the same stuff.
　
Many people suggest cooking the brain so that it turns grey, and I have to say, right here and now, that I believe cooked brains to behave much differently than raw brains. *I no longer cook the brains before I use them on a hide.* I do warm them up, either in a small pot by the fire, or on a little stove eye cooker out in the shed. They smell a lot like eggs cooking (coincidence?) and it's not entirely unpleasant. Warming them will prove valuable when tanning in cold weather! I have had several failed hides that "go stiff" after using cooked brains, so I no longer cook them.
　
For deer it usually takes about half a pound of brains to tan a hide completely soft. Sometimes you need to brain more than once.. but I'll talk about that later in the thread. All you need is a container with a lid, that is large enough to hold the skin and about 6-8 cups of water. You will be surprised at how much liquid the hide soaks up in it's tawny state. *A large skin will hold about 6 cups of water-brains.*
　
Mash the brains in the water with your hands, or toss them in a blender and use the liquefy setting. The brains should be about the consistency of a milkshake. I usually add half a pound of brains to a cup of water, blend or mash, and then dilute and mix with 4 more cups of water. You want to SLOWLY work the hide into the brains, stretching in all directions a small section at a time as you submerge it in the brain solution. At this juncture most people take the hide back out wring it and submerge it again. I do not see the logic in this however.
　
Most chemical processes take _time_. I like to let my hide soak in the brain solution for at least a few hours, preferrably overnight. This allows plenty of time for the oils and collagen to bind. If you wring the hide and wet it with brains or water again, you aren't accomplishing much *because the oils are still water soluble.* That means that every time you wet the hide, the oils wash out! I would rather soak, stretch dry, smoke, and THEN rebrain _if necessary_. The smoking is the final step and makes your collagen/oil fibers insoluble in water. This essentially _saves your progress_ on all the places that softened properly and the places that got stiff will be able to be wetted with brains and softened without fear of ruining the part of the hide that did soften. This is called the pre-smoke method, and I'll elaborate more on that if necessary, later.
　
The glues in the collagen fibers will still _try_ to set up and become rawhide. If we keep the fibers moving against one another while the water evaporates, then each collagen fiber becomes isolated. The idea here is to keep the fibers moving while the hide dries. At this point you are commited once again until the task is done. I'd like to talk about a few softening methods and their pros and cons.
　
*Hand stretching* is by far the least demanding of softening methods. It only requires your hands and a bag or container to store the hide if you want to take a break, so that it doesn't dry out. You will want a "buffer" of some sort to raise the knap of the hide, so pumice or sandstone is required. It produces the softest and stretchiest buckskins. The disadvantage to this method is that you can only work a small part of the hide at a time. One more thing is that you are going to get wet with the brains too! (It's okay ladies, it makes your skin soft!)
　
*Frame stretching* will require a frame to be built large enough to hold the hide with a little room around for working the lashings. It also requires, in addition to the buffers, a staking tool, which is simply a stick with a wedge-shaped end. Once the hide is framed you will run the staker all over the hide, stretching in all directions. This is advantageous because you can quickly go over the whole hide, then rest a while. The disadvantage is that you are 100% committed. It's very hard to keep a hide from drying out in a frame. It takes time to string and unstring it, and you are in a fight against time. Frame stretching will still produce very soft buckskin, but it will lack a lot of the stretch found with hand stretching.
This picture shows the hide in the frame, and the staking tool.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

This picture shows a piece of sandstone I use to buff my hides. I found the boulder under a 15' waterfall on a small creek in the middle of nowhere on one of my "adventures".
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
　
Staking is a method which employs the best of both of the above methods. Basically you need a stand, like a podium base, to hold a narrow stretching tool on top, where the hide is pulled to and fro. The advantage to this method is that your staking stand stretches and buffs at the same time! You are also able to bag your hide and finish later if you need a break. (pictures coming!) My staker is an abrasive disc for a side-grinder mounted atop two 1x4's.
Cabling is an alternative to the staker, but because of it's orientation I do not recommend it. It is a fairly aggressive softening method and can cause your hide to have a blotchy texture, some spots being much fuzzier than others. It works just like staking, but is a bit awkward. you won't need buffers for this method either since the cable will buff it while you work.

Whichever method you choose *you have to work the hide from sloppy wet with brains, to completely dry*. If the humidity is above 80% you will have a hell of a time accomplishing this! Atmostpheric moisture is readily absorbed by a hide that has not been smoked. Buckskin behaves much like a sham-wow, soaking up about 4x it's mass in water! It would be wise to pick a day when the humidity is very low. The hide will feel warm to the back of your hand everywhere that is dry, and will be cold in places where it is wet. The object is to keep the lubricated fibers moving while their encased and isolated glues set around themselves. If you don't keep it moving it will get stiff spots that are basically rawhide on the inside!

If needed, I can elaborate on how to frame a hide later. This is a good place to mention that with a frame you only tighten your strings once or sometimes twice. The more movement you can leave in it, the stretchier it will be when it's done.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Smoking is the final part of the process and is in fact the actual tan. Smoke contains among many things, a gaseous form of formaldehyde, which binds with the collagen/brain to make it become insoluble in water. This is NOT to say "water repellent" as anyone who has ever worn buckskin in the rain will tell you. It soaks up water like a sponge. What this IS to say, is that your skin will be forever preserved in this soft state. Even after being wetted, it will dry, with very minimal stretching, just as soft as it ever was. Because the brains (oils) can no longer be washed out, and the glues around the fibers cannot set up, tanning is complete. Were it not smoked, it would revert to rawhide, which I assure you is not very comfortable to wear!
A properly smoked hide is just as washable as any cotton shirt you have now. Just don't put it in the dryer! I'll talk about washing and drying in the aftercare section.
　
This is where your knowledge of woods, and their burning qualities comes in really handy. If you ever cook on the grill with wood, you'll notice that some woods impart a color to the meat. Poplars lend yellows, while several oaks will turn your meats red.
You also should know how different stages of decomposition affect the burning of the wood. We will need wood that is dry and dead enough to make a nice bed of coals. But this is only half!
You will need wood that is so dead and rotten you can crumble it into powder with your hands. This is referred to as "punky" wood. Punky wood produces a lot of smoke but no flames. It is often used as a coal extender or a spark catcher, and smolders rather than outright ignites.
Some should be crushed into dust, to arrest any flames, and some should be left in chunks, for appropriate smoldering. A few pounds is plenty.

There are several ways to set up for smoking a hide. I prefer to lay it out on a table, grain side up, and use elmers glue to draw a bead just around the very edge, and use clothespins to hold the hide together, folded long-way, like a pillowcase. Some people sew the edges together in the same fashion. Two hides can be smoked together at the same time using either technique. Do two at once so the color will match on your britches!

The neck is the only piece left open, and around the edge of the neck is attached a "skirt" of denim or other thick cloth, either sewn, or glued, to bridge the gap between the fire and the hide. Skin doesn't take very well to high heat and rather crinkles up and scorches. This is a "hide sack" hanging over a smudge pot. Any holes in the hide should be closed so that it is "smoke-tight".
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
　
One easy way to set up your fire is the Dakota Fire Hole. A quick search on the forums will produce that info. Lay your bed of coals in the bottom of your hole, lay your punky wood on top of that, regulate your air flow to prevent flames and maximize smoke production, and stand your hide over the hole using a tripod. The skirt should reach the ground and be weighted around the edges with rocks.
　
Some prefer a "smudge pot" which is simply a small container that functions just as a DFH. Pretty much anything can serve as a smudge pot, from a metal coffee can, to a cast-iron pot. The only trick here is to make sure there is enough space between the hide and the heat! Often a hole is punched near the bottom to allow air inflow to keep the coals alive.
This is my big smudge pot for deer hides. Notice the denim skirt:
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

And this is my small coffee-can smudge pot for smaller hides:
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Smoke-houses are generally preferred for furs, or items where you only want color on one side of the hide. These are usually hooked up through pipeworks hooked to a wood stove, keeping enough distance that the smoke is cold by the time it reaches the house. This method takes the longest, and thus requires the most resources, both for building the house, and maintaining the fire. I do not personally see the need for a smoke-house unless you also regularly cure meat in it (but I made one anyway LOL).
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
　
The idea is to have a sealed container for the smoke. We want it to permeate and surround each fiber as it passes through the hide like a filter. Color is taken on the inside and when the hide is observed to be taking color on the outside (flesh side) in the thick areas, it is pulled inside-out and smoked on the other side. A smokehouse serves to allow the cool gasses to "settle" into the hide. Often color is only procured on one side.

Smoking times vary depending on the wood used and the color desired. A hide only actually needs to be smoked for about 20 minutes on one side or the other to be functionally smoked. For color effect, and depending on the rate at which it takes color on the outside (flesh side) I usually smoke the grain side (inside) for 45 minutes to an hour, and the outside, once flipped inside-out, about half that time, usually 20-30 minutes.

*NEVER LEAVE A SMOKING HIDE UNATTENDED!* Should your smudge-pot get too hot and catch fire your hide could be ruined in _a matter of seconds_ and all that work would be down the drain! Before the hide ever goes over the coals, go pee, eat, get a drink, whatever you have to do to make sure there are *ABSOLUTELY NO INTERRUPTIONS*! I have ruined a squirrel hide in the moment it took to step outside to get more punky wood!
　
Different colors come from different woods. I've used laurel oak, red oak, cedar, and cherry. All are various shades of golden brown, but I particularly liked the golden color of laurel oak.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

To recap, we skin, flesh, buck, scrape, scrape again, rinse, wring, rinse again, wring again, brain, wring, stretch dry, smoke.

At this point, if there are any spots on your hide that got stiff, Dunk that sucker back in the brains and soften again! The whole hide will soak up the brains, but the places that got stiff will soften this time. I have done this several times and now, if I have a hide get stiff spots, I smoke it anyway, and immediately rebrain and soften those spots. Resmoking is not necessary. There is no worry of the soft spots going stiff, because they are forever soft after being smoked!

----------


## your_comforting_company

Aftercare is really simple. Wash your buckskin just as you would any other cotton garment. You can just throw it in the washing machine with some colgate soap, or Fels Naptha (This smells really good!) that has been grated. A quarter bar or so is enough to wash a short sleeve shirt. You can just guess at it. Some folks add a glug or two of olive oil to the wash to help keep the buckskin conditioned. I use lye soap with roughly a 7% lye deficit (fat surplus), which serves to wash and condition at the same time!

You will need some sort of scrubber to get the tough stains out. One of the little brushes like you use to scrub under your fingernails is great. Don't be too aggressive with it, though, or you'll rub a lot of your soft knap off the surface!

Drying is a simple matter of hand-wringing the garment and hanging it on the line on a sunny day. Even in really cold temperatures, the cold dry air combined with the sun's radiation will dry your buckskin, just as it would your skin. DO NOT PUT YOUR BUCKSKIN IN THE DRYER! It will be 10 sizes too small and very much ruined when it comes out!

Once your garment is dry, turn it inside out and use your pumice or sandstone to remove the stiff ends of the fibers and re-raise the knap. It will be just a tad bristly but a quick once-over inside and out will make it oh-so-soft again. Also, you will need to do a little bit of hand stretching in all directions. I like to give it a once-over about halfway through drying, and a good 2-3 minute stretch after it's all dry. 
Also of note.. don't use clothespins to hang your garment as they will stretch it at the point they are clipped and make your garment misshapen. Simply drape it over the line / pole, and let it go.

Freshly smoked buckskin will have a lingering smoke smell reminiscent of a very fragrant cigar. It's best to store them in a small tote, or chest if you find the smoke smell offensive. I particularly love the smell of woodsmoke and like to hang them around the room. Any clothing left near the buckskins will likely gather a bit of the scent, so it is not suggested to hang them near your sunday best.

Washing will cause your skin to lose some color. It's a simple matter to set up a smoke rack with some tarps or plastic like a teepee, hang your clothing in there, and pump in smoke from your smudge-pot. Repeated washing will make your skin become almost white again. Some folks prefer the darker, more pronounced colors, and some prefer white buckskin. I have heard of using urine to whiten your skins, but I would not recommend it. I prefer to let the hide be what it will be, and I love the golden colors.

Aftercare is really simple and straightforward, the only things to remember is NO DRYER, a little stretch, and a little buff. Really any soap will do, but I don't like to use harsh cleaning soaps, like Lava or Gojo.

Also, a good place to mention reading materials: Deerskins into Buckskins, by Matt Richards is top-notch material. My library had a copy I checked out till I got my own, and I would have to say it is the most thorough, explanatory, and detailed book out there regarding wet-scrape buckskin (with some notes on dry-scrape). Get hold of that book!
The Ancient Art of Braintanning by Steven Edholm and Tamara Wilder is another great book dealing with tanning using very primitive methods and provides many notes on alternative methods, like prolonged soaking and decomposition, instead of bucking. Very useful for the individual who needs options!
Blue Mountain Buckskin by Jim Riggs deals with dry-scrape, and I highly recommend it for anyone who needs to use the dry-scrape method, due to scheduling.

----------


## randyt

> Actually, WE, questions will help make sure this thread is as complete as possible. I welcome any questions and comments, and offer my assistance to all who would try this.


awesome, I may give wetscrape another try especially if I can pester you with questions.

are you going to cover any alternative "brain" solutions like eggs or soap/ neatsfoot oil?

----------


## Rick

YCC - This is an outstanding explanation. Many folks don't realize that the strongest force in the universe is magnetism. It's what holds atoms together. If you drop a rock on a table it would pass right through the table (and the floor and the ground) if it weren't for the magnetic attraction of the atoms' protons and electrons in the wood. Knowing how to alter or break that bond at the atomic level is key to understanding WHY smoke or any other element works. Super great explanation and some more rep!!

----------


## your_comforting_company

I have not used eggs for braintanning, but I will say that they are made of the same stuff... funny how that works hehe.

The soap/neatsfoot is covered in the utility leather thread and I don't recommend it for buckskin as the oil is really heavy and will make your chamois buckskin more like sloppy leather. Eggs are a much better alternative, IMO. 

I will perhaps touch on the subject of alternatives, but only in retrospect of my research because I have only had experience with brains.

----------


## rwc1969

Cool, can't wait to try this, thanks for posting it up.

----------


## hunter63

Very well done tutorial, good work!
Old wooden ironing board works good as a fleshing beam, but people look at your weird at the yard sale, when they find out why you want one.

Rep your way, man!

----------


## hunter63

Just thought I would show ya, the fleashing and scrapping knife I made from a industrial hack saw blade.
One side sharpened a bit and the side has the teeth ground down a bit, used it for rawhide from deer skins.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Hey! that's a great tool! Looks like it would work well for fleshing, though it might be a little flimsy for graining. Thanks for posting the pic H.

----------


## your_comforting_company

The bulk of the info is in the thread now. I'm sure as I go back and read over it, I'll make afterthought notes, and as you guys ask questions the work will be even better. I hope I've done a good job explaining the process and why it works, so that you can modify these methods according to your needs, to accomplish some very soft materials that would otherwise be discarded.

Braintan buckskin is a very labor-heavy endeavor so be sure you have a full bucket of elbow grease, and a cast-iron stomach. Personally, I find it to be a very rewarding hobby, and I think you will too.

Please feel free to ask questions and make comments. I really hope I've kept it simple enough that you won't be intimidated by all the information, and will give it a try.
A deer really is an all-in-one package; A blessing. Sinews for bowstrings, sewing, hafting. Bone tools for processing and use for projectile tips, hammers, shovels, hoes... Skin and fur for clothing, meat to eat. Please respect the animal, even if you don't use every piece of it.

When I take an animal's life, I say a prayer thanking the Good Lord for the animal and the bounty, and apologize for the destruction. There should be no joy in killing, and I do not enjoy the act of killing.
I enjoy the *hunt*. Sitting, watching the world wake up and come to life, and go on without me having an active part in it. I enjoy making useful items from the animal, clothing, tools, etc. I do NOT enjoy destroying a life that knows only freedom, something we will never _truly_ appreciate, nor understand.

----------


## crashdive123

Well said YCC.  Tried to send some rep your way, but I've gotta spread the love.

----------


## rwc1969

I was on another forum and the thread asked what's the best mulit-use item, i said deer. It's amazing just how many uses it has.

I'd rep ya too, but it won't allow, will have to nominate you instead.

I have to ask the obvious though, without cooking the brains aren't you worried about disease? I mean, is it possible to contract something, especially considering the time frames for applying them and how quickly brains supposedly rot?

----------


## hunter63

Quote> YCC   Freshly smoked buckskin will have a lingering smoke smell reminiscent of a very fragrant cigar. It's best to store them in a small tote, or chest if you find the smoke smell offensive. I particularly love the smell of woodsmoke and like to hang them around the room. Any clothing left near the buckskins will likely gather a bit of the scent, so it is not suggested to hang them near your sunday best.< Quote.

LOL, Walked into a meeting after arriving home from two weeks of Rendovouse, some one said. "What burning, I smell smoke?"

I said, "That would be me".
Gotta love it.

----------


## Ted

Excellent tut bro!

----------


## flandersander

So... I've got a question. I've really thought about tnning a hide for a rather long time. Problem is, I don't really wanna take on a project the size of a deer. So, my question is, if deer wasn't an option, what would be a good animal to try with, that would be beginner friendly? Muskrats, coyotes, fox, squirrel etc?

----------


## your_comforting_company

RWC. With western deer, it could definately be a problem. Chronic Wasting Disease affects the central nervous system. If CWD is a problem in your area, find an alternate source for brains. From what I understand it is communicable to humans! It hasn't reached over here yet, and I always process my deer that day, brains and all, so typically it hasn't even cooled off yet before I stick in it the freezer with the skin.
I use hog brains from the grocers if I don't have the head with the deer, which are usually well immunized from diseases, although hogs also carry diseases communicable to humans. Probably the best alternative is to find cow brains if possible, as they have far fewer diseases that people can catch.
Really, I don't worry about it as long as I don't have any open wounds on my hands. I probably should... If the deer looked healthy when processed, i.e. no liver spots, no brain spots, no crazy behavior, I wouldn't think it would pose any serious threat. To my knowledge CWD is just about the only disease people can get directly from deer.
In the skull, it takes a day or two for brains to go rancid, and only about 24 hours outside the skull, or container. Best to collect them, and freeze them till ready for use. Several hours of freezing will kill most bacteria and only rarely will any disease last more than a week in there.

This raises a good point. You are working with materials that will rot, and collect bacteria. If you have any cuts or open wounds on your hands, wait for them to heal before you try to tan any hide. Especially the soaks will be full of bacteria, and I got an infection earlier this year that nearly ate my thumb off.
Common sense will go a long way!

FS, any small animal is totally doable. I have done red squirrels and a black fox squirrel, and a fox and a coon, all with hair on. I have read that many of the small game animals are too thin to be scraped down into buckskin, but it's worth a try. I like the fur left on those fellas, so I haven't tried it myself. Rabbit will soften nicely with the fur and grain still on. Squirrels are a little stiff with fur on and might require two brainings to be as soft as you want them.
"Bye baby bunting, daddy's gone a-hunting to fetch a baby bunny skin to wrap the baby bunting in!"

----------


## your_comforting_company

RWC's question about sewing holes reminde me that I didn't mention it here.

If your deer has holes in it, and chances are that it does, you'll want to sew those up BEFORE stretching the skin, usually before the braining. As the fibers re-align during stretching, the holes will lay flatter and will all but disappear. My abo shirt had two holes in each hide and I bet you couldn't tell from looking at the pics!

After wringing the water out of the hide after the rinse, you should sew up any holes. Wringing is pretty aggressive and can rip out your stitches and make the holes worse, trust me, I know!!
You'll want to be a little more gingerly with the wringing after braining too!

Lay your hide out flat on a table, flesh side up. A scrap piece of wood is handy for using your awl to make a few stitch holes. I use a standard leather (glovers) needle like what comes in the packs of cheap needles from the dollar store. Stitches should be at minimum 1/8" from the edge of the hole, and preferrably about 1/4". stitches should be no more than 1/4" apart for strength.

Use standard sewing stitches, like the lazy stitch, or whip stitch BUT finish each one with a good knot. Don't just run back through your stitches to finish as with cotton garments. This skin is in for some rough treatment and once it has been brained, time is not your friend! The last thing you want to do is stop softening to re-stitch a hole, and let your hide get stiff!

Holes might need to be trimmed into a symmetrical shape. Often there are small tags and tatters where the bullet / broadhead / truck went through the hide. The more symmetrical the hole, the better it will lay.

This is one in the frame. You can see just how much tension is on the stitches. Hand stretching is not as aggressive but it's still recommended to use strong stitchings.Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Due to the timing, it's best to rinse, wring (second time), then sew holes. This allows a little time for the hide to reach it's "just right" moisture content where it will soak up the brain solution really well. It always seems to work out just about right for me.

Of course, with everything involved in braintanning, You might have to adapt or change bits to suit your needs. It amazes me how far apart many of the indigenous peoples lived.. entire continents apart, seperated by oceans.. yet they all had very similar techniques for tanning skins. Wet-scrape brain-tan has been used all over the world at one point or another, provided materials were available.

----------


## flandersander

I've decided. I'm gonna make a pair of gloves as featured in the glove making thread. I think I'll do a hair-on tan using white rabbits. Now all I gotta do is snare a couple rabbits. Think 2 will be enough?

----------


## Rick

Doesn't rabbit fur come loose rather easily? I've never tanned so I don't know.

----------


## flandersander

Actually now that you mention it, I think it does... Hmm. Muskrat then... I dunno lol.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Salting a hide helps set the hair, still totally doable with rabbits.

I'd have 4 rabbits on hand to make gloves, but you really want to follow the "Braintanning pelts" thread. fur-on hides is much less involved than buckskin.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Edit: I've condensed the videos into one slightly edited version. Hopefully I didn't lose too much details!

preparing the ashes.

enjoy!

----------


## rwc1969

Did Santa bring you a new camera YCC?

----------


## your_comforting_company

nope. It's out on loan from grandma. Figured I'd make use of it while we had it. Keep your fingers crossed she'll let us hang on to it till I get this series done. Long story short, my aunt in Alaska got her one to do vids of the family at christmas, to send to her.

I show a few tools here, and talk briefly about them. some are metal, some are bone


The drawknife was my grandads, and the rest I made myself. Fleshing video coming!

----------


## crashdive123

Nice vids YCC.  You should post them in the instructional video section as well.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Thanks. I'm trying to keep the downloads small so it won't take forever. sorry it's in so many different clips!

For those that haven't seen it done, this is the fleshing of a hide. You literally plow the meat and tissue off with a dull tool. I prefer the waist beam setup as it allows more pressure on the work and you can wedge the skin between yourself and the beam.
I show using all 4 tools, and I even break one! Never tried an ulna-radius bone before, so I snapped it on the first try!

This video shows some grossness, so it's not for those with weak stomachs!

----------


## your_comforting_company

Edit: combined the videos into one!

**Please put lids on your buckets!**
It got dark on me, but this vid shows the hide going in the bucket and how you have to work it in to make sure you get it coated all over.

There's one more vid in this series of bucking, then we'll move on to the graining and membraning. I checked the hide late yesterday, and the hair hadn't moved, so it might be a day or two (more) before I get to work it.



*the notes above were for the clipped versions*

----------


## rwc1969

That bucking solution is way thicker than i imagined, almost like a real thin, overly thin concrete mix. More of a paste than liquid.

----------


## your_comforting_company

yes, it's definately more pasty than liquidy. It really takes a lot of fingerwork to get it all in the hair. It seemed to dry a little more over the last two days, so I added about 2 cups of water, stirred, and re-dunked it today. It's just barely above freezing and been snowing off-and-on all day. Might take several days to buck, since this was a large males skin.

----------


## your_comforting_company

The bucked hide coming out of the bucket
Hide comes out of the bucket and onto the beam. Getting a small start on the neck.
Working on the neck a little more.. 
Notice how the beam flexes under the pressure.

The layers of skin exposed in High Definition




Edit: notes above were for clipped versions. I decided to leave the "skin layers" part in high def, but it is included in the long clip also.

----------


## BearBirch

Awesome tutorials. Thanks a bunch.

----------


## your_comforting_company

You have witnessed the hell that is graining on the neck.. once you get further into the hide, it gets a lot easier. If your hide isn't graining this easily, it needs to buck longer!

Mind the thin areas around the armpits, belly, and legs. You can really dig into the thick middle part of the hide without worry, but ticks, thorns and scar tissues will make great big holes if you aren't careful!

You can see in this shot that it really gets easy the further you get in. The grain starts coming off in ribbons.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Flip it over and scrape the membrane side. A lot can be let go here, this is inside the garment. Do the best you can, most of it comes super easy. expect a few streaks on this side.


*Edit: condensed videos. This video includes details for the next section

----------


## your_comforting_company

After the bulk of the mess is removed from both sides, it's time to double check both sides for any grain or membrane that might have been missed. By scraping in different directions you pick up any grain that might've been missed on the first round. This doesn't usually take very long.
Basically a lot of scraping and a little common sense.

*Edit: video above includes these details

----------


## rwc1969

I'm surprised the grain comes off so easy. I broke thru in a couple areas trying to remove stubborn hair and then decided to really try to see just how easy it would be to get the grain off. It was a bear and near impossible on my skin.

I'm getting the impression my bucking mix did little to nothing.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Next time try pickling lime or wood ash. They work really well for me. It could be the temperature. My hide didn't move (buck) for about 2 days.. it was just so cold it took forever. Normally for me it takes about 4 days, this one took about a week. I was hoping to beat the rain, but I ended up trying to soften when it was 100% humidity.. Far from ideal.

I actually finished (smoked) this skin today. Filmed the whole process in short clips (I hope it's working well this way) and as soon as I get each step uploaded, I'll post them up. There is some re-scraping commentary to be done, braining, wringing, and stretching vids to get up. I'm workin on it, I'm just slow.

The one thing that is missing is the FEEL of the skin as it transforms from sloppy wet to chamois soft.. just can't capture that on film. I call it the "magic hour".

----------


## your_comforting_company

A grown deer has about a cup of brains. Mix with 4 cups of water, and blend.

Rinsing should be done before braining to remove all the alkali from the skin. rinse it until your water runs clear.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I'd like to interject here a bit about the materials (mediums) we are working with and the possibility of infection.
The brains I'm using came from the deer. They were removed and put in the freezer within a few hours of the kill and should therefore be "safer" than those that sat in a slaughterhouse waiting to be canned.
If these were hog brains, I would absolutely be wearing gloves. I have a cut on each thumb if you noticed in the scraping videos.

Most of this stuff is just guesswork, but I want to also explain a little about the concentration of the solution. Much of the information I've read says mix the brains with a half gallon of water. That's a lot of water!
Through experience, I've figured "about" how much liquid a semi-dry skin will absorb. Based on that experience, I've reduced the ratio of water : brains so that I'm using more brains and less water. The more brains you get in there the first time, the easier it will be to soften. I found that higher amounts of water simply left the skin feeling "starchy", while less water / more brains made it much easier to soften and left the skin feeling much softer.

A simple test is to rinse your hide, and wring it. then add a cup of water to your bucket at a time, each time soaking up as much as the hide can hold, and wring it out again. Normally a cup of brains to 4 cups of water is plenty.. even for this huge buck.. the 7 point I mentioned in another thread.
Bucks are tougher than does. They are thicker and much more gristly from sparring and rutting. Ideally, you want the hide from an "eating size" doe; somewhere around 150 lbs. or maybe a little less. You could probably get by with 3 cups water to 1 cup brains.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I didn't get a chance to record the wringing after the rinse, so this set of videos will apply after rinsing _and_ after braining.



Note the safety reminder in the video!!

----------


## your_comforting_company

All That twisting will leave your hide in a sad state of affairs. We have to stretch it back out. This is called "breaking" or "opening" the hide. At this point it's very stiff and misshapen. We want it nice and loose so we can pull the fibers across one another with our hands. To achieve this we use, once again, brute force!



A basic breaking tool, the staker. I fashioned this one out of a used abrasive disk for a side grinder, a couple 1x4's and a few bolts. It abrades and moves the fibers in various directions as it stretches over the arc. I apologize for the poor lighting, but it was raining outside. I've seen similar stakers made from old trowels, dull shovels, boat paddles.. If it's rounded and dull, try it!

----------


## crashdive123

> A grown deer has about a cup of brains. This video shows the mixing.


Does Mrs YCC know you are using her blender to make brain smoothies?

----------


## your_comforting_company

Hand Stretching the hide until it's soft


Abrading places on the hide that stiffened a little overnight and showing scar tissue. Scars are very tightly woven and will seldom soften the way we want. We just have to accept them and carry on. :angermanagement: 
*see video above*

Hand stretching is not such vigorous exercise, but it is a good workout. If it takes two days for your hide to dry, like this one (due to humidity or other factors) your arms are likely to get a little sore.
This hide got stiff overnight, but I had to go to sleep. There are two main areas of the hide that will get stiff.
The neck
An oval just behind the shoulders on the top of the back. 
I will try to make a diagram or something to display these areas.

----------


## your_comforting_company

The hide didn't turn out as soft as I would have liked, but it got late and I had to sleep, so I decided to rebrain the hide and try softening again

----------


## your_comforting_company

This video touches on how we put together the hide into a pillowcase.

The hide sack is hung upside down for smoking

Introduction to the smudge pot. A dakota fire hole will serve the same purpose but will require the addition of a "skirt" around the neck. I fashioned this out of junk around the house.

We use really rotten wood for smoking so that all the saps, sugars, and gunky "stuff" has been washed out. This is referred to as "Punk" wood.


*Just a few more videos and you'll see the finished hide!*

----------


## your_comforting_company

There are several elements of fire, or should I say, properties of wood we need to address. Hardwoods hold a long coal without much flame, while softwoods burn up. Rotten wood doesn't have much of the material left to produce the "volatile gasses" that create flame. How well do you know your woods?

Let's make some smoke.
Close view of the smoke penetrating the skin
A VERY SPECIAL NOTE ON SMOKING HIDES
This is why you never leave a smoking hide unattended!!
The hide has been smoking for about an hour.. how you can tell when it's ready to be flipped.
Now it needs to be flipped if you want color on the inside of the garment. I like to smoke boths sides, but at this point the skin is effectively tanned. It is completely functional and you can wash it right away if you choose. It will dry back completely soft, just as it is now, with only a little stretching and buffing. A few pulls and a once over.

*edit: notes above are for previous video!

----------


## your_comforting_company

The inside (grain side of the skin) revealed.. just a peek!

Smoke the inside if you choose to (flesh side) but not necessary.

It's finished. Behold the beauty that is buckskin. To think such a wonderful thing can come of some gross, disgusting, gooey gunk, is puzzling. I dazzle at every one.

*edit: the previous video includes all this information!

It truly feels like magic as it changes forms in your hands.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I hope that with the explanations at the beginning, you will have the understanding to follow along with the videos. Maybe the videos show the details that you need to see. Most questions are "how do I know if I'm scraping deep enough" or the like, and I hope I show those bits, if nothing else, so that the things you can't see in the text are shown.

I'm totally new to making videos and "presentations". I really don't like being on camera or talking to one, so critique as you will.. but please, please, let me know if I skipped a detail you need to see.

Hopefully I can borrow the camera again and show framing and stretching. Perhaps with a bit more professionalism.

----------


## Pocomoonskyeyes3

WOW! Totally AWESOME Job!!! Well done YCC, well done.

----------


## your_comforting_company

> Does Mrs YCC know you are using her blender to make brain smoothies?


 
She said and I qoute, "That's your blender now, I'm going to town to buy a new one". :Nono: 

She's sweet like that.

----------


## rwc1969

Dude, I think that the vids were done quite well. I really like the scraping of the hide, and the braining as you were stretching it and showing the change in texture and feel. It was very clear and was neat seeing it transfrom. I also like the way you made playlists so one could watch each part continuosly, very cool.

I have to say after watching you do it, it does look like a labor of love, mainly the graining part looked tough. I was surprised how much force you were putting on that skin. I'm surprised it didn't tear through. It seems there's a lot more effort in this than the bark tan with grain on.

----------


## your_comforting_company

It's definately a lot of work
Fleshing took about 20-30 minutes. Not too intensive.
Bucking took a week
All the scraping took about 4 hours

With the humidity at near 100% the toughest part was getting it dry. two sittings, 4 hours one night, and about 6 the next day.

So I've gone from 20 hours of labor, to about 16.. I'm getting a little faster!

It seems like a lot of work, but to me, the finished skin is worth it. It's like some ancient magick, or alchemy.

Deer skins are tough, and as long as your tool is properly dulled, the only places you might tear through are on the legs, edges at the belly, and around armpits. If you tear it up with a dull draw-knife, then it was too rotten to be using anyway.

Furs or pelts come first as far as labor, next would be grain leathers but they are not much more work, and last would be buckskin, being the most labor intensive.

I have a few more playlists to organize to finish up and I'm combining some of the smaller clips into longer ones to put in the instructional vids section.

I really and truly believe that once any of you try this, you'll be just as hooked as I am. Tanning is what turned me on to all the primitive skills. The magic of friction fire is no less than that of braintanning. Knowing that you've made something so beautiful with natural materials and your own two hands.. I can't even describe it.

It is a lot of work.. sometimes we get to enjoy it.. sometimes it goes on the wifes side of the bed (and we still get to enjoy it  :Big Grin: )
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Pocomoonskyeyes3

Just out of curiosity, roughly how many hides do you tan this way in an average year/season? I am thinking that this also might give an idea on how labor intensive or not it is... assuming you have access to the same number of hides each year.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Provided time and work schedule, I do about 10 hides a year. Depending on their intended use, I might frame some of them. This year I have about a dozen that I've collected from various sources and in various degrees of butchered.

It takes about a week to do one.. so if you have enough buckets, you could technically finish one one day, and scrape the next hide the next, repeatably. Since I have a job and other hobbies, I can't tan as much as I'd like to.. a man has to go fishing sometime! I would think with proper planning, a person could tan out several a day, every other day all year.
Of course it's too hot here in the summer!!

I have hand stretched two in one day. Stored one in frozen brains due to weather and as the other one was finished, the humidity got right and I got to finish both.

Like I say, it depends on a person's schedule, but I'd say for a first hide, expect around 24 hours of time in it. Once you get a feel for it, you might turn one out in half that time. There are several periods of "waiting" for things to happen, like the buck, soak, or rinse, so I don't count that time.

The first year I only did 3 from hunting season because I wasn't sure I'd even like tanning, the next year I was picking up every roadkill I could get my hands on (they seldom have holes in them!) Ever since, I take what I can get that is in good shape. I have to use some discretion because some of them are really knifed up. I'll usually offer free skinning and quartering in exchange for the skin and head.

Roofing for a living also has some to do with it, because my energy level is usually pretty low after a hard day.

Cold air does not hold moisture as well as warm air, so those of you who live in colder or more arid (dry & warm) climates could probably finish 2 per day. Many people who live "the simple life" tan for a living along with teaching classes. A person could easily make on average $300 per day provided they have a buyer for their hides.. And a 500 gallon tank of elbow grease!

Scraping is very straightforward and self regulating. The main thing is finding the rhythm, and keeping the work comfortable. I should only take a few hours to soften a hide in the right weather.

I only do a few each year because of time constraints. A dozen is plenty for me.

I hope I answered the question LOL!

----------


## your_comforting_company

I do believe I will be forever a braintanner. I'm hooked. There is nothing quite like it to me and it gave me a whole new appreciation for the world around me. A deer is truly an all in one package.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I wanted to put bucking times into perspective if only for the sake of RWC. I just tanned out a small hide that only took 2 days in wood ashes to buck. It scraped so easy, I did both sides in about 2 hours.
Considering how hard a time RWC had with tearing grain on his hide, I would come to the conclusion to discount calcium carbonate as a reliable bucking solution. If possible, use wood ashes, or pickling lime. I still won't recommend KOH, household lye, on account of the dangers involved in handling it.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Have you ever hand-washed any of your garments? Washing buckskin is no different. I would like to point out a few things that I prefer.

Once your buckskin has been smoked, it is forever preserved in it's soft state, making it washable. Buckskin is NOT water repellent! It is quite the opposite and will readily soak up any water (or other liquids) it comes into contact with.

It's completely fine to throw your buckskin in the washing machine. Although, I prefer to hand wash mine, since I did go to all the trouble to make it myself. I also prefer to use less harsh soaps, like colgate, fels naptha, or lye soap. A little borax in the wash will help loosen any spots that are heavily soiled, and if it's worse than that, a small brush will suffice to scrub.

I like to use the tub as it gives me plenty of room to see the whole garment.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Don't scrub _too_ hard or you'll remove a lot of that beautiful, soft knap.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

A sopping wet buckskin shirt...
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

...Wrung out by hand
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Notice the dry spots.. it dries very quickly!
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Then hang it OVER your solar powered clothes dryer. If you use clothes pins, the weight will most likely distort the shape of your hide as it dries. Nobody wants those unattractive "spikes" on their shoulders, do they?
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Every once in a while, as it dries, go out to the clothesline, and stretch the garment to and fro, as if you were hand-softening it again. This usually only requires a minute or so to move the fibers around, and replace the garment on the line. Those of you who use a clothesline to dry your modern clothes will know that even cotton garments can get a little "stiff on the line".
Once it is completely dry again, use your buffing tool to remove any bristly knap that might have hardened on the inside and outside, and your buckskin will be just as soft and comfortable as ever! 5 minutes of stretching and 2 minutes of buffing will bring it back to it's chamois state.

Really Simple stuff! This is the best part of buckskin to me.. it is equal to "modern" clothing in care, but MUCH more durable, and oh-so comfortable!

Repeated washing will lighten the colors, so if you must, you can re-smoke your buckskins to restore the color. This can be a challenge with shirts and pants and making "hide sacks" from garments. I would recommend using a small smoke house to resmoke garments.

----------


## your_comforting_company

As Luck would have it I grabbed another huge skin from the freezer. Fleshing was easy, and bucking for 4 days made most of it grain fairly easily. Everywhere except the NECK.

This has to be a rutting buck, because the skin was nearly 1/2" thick at the top of the neck. The hair was slipping everywhere BUT the neck, so I went ahead and grained it anyway. Since most of it had been scraped down to the "buckskin" I couldn't stick it back in the ashes but the grain absolutely refused to seperate at the neck.

My point is having a backup. I had half a can of pickling lime left. Being white it won't stain the skin!
So I mixed up half a bucket and soaked the hide another 2 days.
*The hide doesn't smell bad, so I know it's not rotting, even though it's been a little warm lately*
I scraped a good bit of grain off tonight, but it's still not good enough to suit me, so I stuck it back in the buck and will try more tomorrow. So far I have as much time in scraping the neck (about 4 hours so far) as I do in fleshing, membraning, and graining.

Each skin is a little different. some are tough, some are soft. Some get stiff spots no matter what you do, and others soften like a dream.
My second point is this:

This is what "usually" works for me. I'm always adapting and changing nuances in my method to suit the weather or the skin (or other factors). What I've listed here as "instructions" should be regarded more as "guidelines" and I hope that I've explained the things that need to happen, regardless of how you accomplish them. Understanding "why" gives us options for "how".

----------


## rwc1969

That's interesting. I wonder if a younger deer would be harder to buck the hair off than an older one, or visa versa? My deer was quite young, probably 1-1/2 years old and it was tough. Although, it could have just been the CaCo3.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I'm really leaning toward it being the CaCO3. I've heard others talk about not bucking at all and I just can't imagine the difficulty of graining one that has not been bucked.

I think I'll buy some CaCO3 and try it on a small buck my uncle killed this year. blew a big hole right in the middle of it and wasted a backstrap, so if it goes bad, it's not like I will lose anything.

About to head outside and have another go at that neck.. MAN it's tough!! this'll be my 5th day working on JUST the neck. But I WILL get it soft. I've only been bested by one skin so far and that was due to my rotting thumb.

Ideally you want young does, in the 120-150lb range, for ease of working, and softness. Of course, I'll tan whatever I can get LOL.

----------


## your_comforting_company

So I got outside around 8 this morning and it was still foggy, but there were no clouds so I said "Oh, It'll be a great day to soften this skin". so I scraped over both sides one last time, wrung it, fixed up my brain soup, got it dunked, and was started for about 30 minutes softening when the clouds started rolling in around 10:30 or 11. It stayed cloudy till dark, but I got it mostly done, and just before sunset it started raining.
*@$#$&*!*
So I had to make a fire in the shop and force it dry.. it was softening so beautifully too.. humidity went sky high and temperature dropped.. What can you do? deal with it LOL. Welcome to South Georgia.

It'll have to be a re-braining project now cause I gotta work tomorrow. At least it's "saved" where I did manage to get it soft. and I saved the leftover brains that I wrung out of it, so I should still have plenty since it came with the deer (according to the saying)

I still love tanning, even though it can be frustrating when the weather won't cooperate!

----------


## your_comforting_company

But I did it.
Yeah it was tough, and the weather was bad, but now, it's soft and supple and sweet smelling. Temps got low again last night and it was sooo warm on the bed.

This is a HUGE deer skin. I hope the pic puts it in perspective. It took a lot more work than a small doe would, but I didn't let it whoop me. Even got the thick neck respectably soft.

I finished it on the 31st and let it air out a little in the shed. I took it to work with me and let the lady that lives there open it, so I hadn't seen it yet.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## your_comforting_company

The following pictures show the buckskin up close. What you are looking at is the fibers of the "fiber network". You can actually see each fiber. Remember this is collagen, which is a protien chain.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

So all that technical talk about molecules and ions, and things we don't normally consider to be really tangible, are visible!
Buckskin is an amazing thing! It teaches chemistry, physics, and hard work. It reminds me that there is still a little magic left in this concrete-and-steel world we live in. :Thumbs Up:

----------


## your_comforting_company

I have to go back on myself here just a little.

At one point I said that if you shred your hide, it must be rotten, or your tool is too sharp, but I found another case where you might tear it up.

Not sure where I got this little bitty deer hide, but it's barely big enough to make underwear from. Being so young and tender, and using an aggressive (normal) scraping, put a couple holes in the edges. Most folks ain't gonna shoot one that little, so it's my first time scraping one that was _that_ thin and tender. 

If it's really small, the skin won't be tough enough to handle the normal scraping and you might tear holes. A little finesse will prevent holes, but admittedly, finesse is not really my thing. Live and learn!

----------


## your_comforting_company

Proper care from beginning to end.

When you get the skin off the animal, it's imperative to wash off any blood or bile that might be on the skin BEFORE storing it. I dug out two hides from the freezer a few days ago, to thaw. Well, I got busy building my beehive, and they were thawed for a good day longer than I should have let them go. When I opened the bags, the smell was pretty bad.

Crash just posted a thread about how sights, smells, or sounds trigger memories, and this is a similar case. I'm not sure words can describe it well enough. The FIRST thing that will spoil on a hide is bile (gut juice), then the blood, then the fat and meat, and lastly the hide itself. Each stage of spoilage has a different smell.
I did a good job skinning these, so there was very little fat on them and 0 meat.. so where was the smell coming from?

One hide was covered with "brown water" on one side. This brown water was from a blood pool. When blood spoils, it turns rusty/muddy brown and has a very different smell from rotting flesh or meat. The other hide had apparently been a gut-shot and had different-colored brown stains.

My point in this is that many of the aspects of tanning are not things someone can teach you, or even describe for the most part. Knowing and understanding these things can only be learned by _doing_.

I had another point to make here too.. When things start smelling bad, that means you are working very closely with bacteria and enzymes that can cause some serious problems if you have open cuts. As many of these as were done without protective clothing in ages past, I STRONGLY recommend you use PPE anyway.

After one day in pickling lime the smells are almost completely gone, meaning that the enzymes and bacteria have been neutralized by the buck. The "skin" itself was not rotting, and I can tell because it has a different smell, but this was blood and bile that was not properly washed out before storage.

I'm using pickling lime to buck these two hides for the demonstration this coming weekend. I won't have running water from a hose, so I wanted the hides to appear as clean as possible. Ashes make quite a mess. I'll be taking a bucket of ashes to explain that part of the process, but one of these two will be scraped into buckskin (I could have done that one in ashes..), ready to be brained, and the other will be to demonstrate scraping. With all it's "grossness" I want it to appear as clean and appealing as possible.
I sure hope lots of folks come out to the demo. They've been announcing it all last week on "Top of the Morning", and apparently folks are calling in every day for more details, and making reservations for the class, which tells me that there will be lots more paying classes in the future.

If your hide is stinky, handle it as little as is possible, and use your protective gear: rubber boots, apron, gloves.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I was wondering if RWC might humor me and try to describe what buckskin feels like?

----------


## randyt

You mentioned that you'll always be a braintanner. I agree it's really a cool process.  Have you ever wetscraped a fresh skin right from the deer with out bucking? It scrapes well, it's the only wetscrape that I've had good luck with. Sometimes though I leave it in the shade overnight and that loosens up the grain even more so.
I've read that the commanches were known for their "white" buckskin. Do you have any info on their process? It sounds like they didn't smoke their hides and if so how did they remain soft or clean.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I have tried to scrape a fresh green hide without bucking. I do NOT recommend it unless you are a masochist. If you think a fresh skin grains easily, you should try bucking your hides and you'll find it is like butter. It's purely self torture and a heck of a lot of extra effort to scrape a green hide (in my experiences). I buck all my hides and can completely scrape one on both sides in about 2-2 1/2 hours. I have one rinsing in the bucket now that is a fairly large skin that only took an hour to grain and 30 minutes to membrane. The grain slipped off in ribbons from just below the neck rim (about 6" down) all the way to the rump.
Buck your next hide and I think you'll find it grains much easier.
Soaking in water only serves to swell the hide, which would make it seperate more easily at the papillary layer. But this does not flush out the hydrogen bonds as well as bucking does. The grain should slough off from the fiber network in ribbons. If it isn't that easy, you're just burning calories, when you could just wait a little longer for it to buck and spend less time at the beam. In Steven Edholm's book "The Ancient Art of Braintanning" he mentions soaking the hides in a creek of running water to let it reach a certain level of decomposition, eliminating the need for bucking step, and effectively flushing out the mucus. Timing is critical when you are allowing things to rot; if you don't catch it in time, it's wasted and if you go at it too soon, it's just as difficult as scraping green. I prefer to arrest the bacteria and enzymes that cause things to decompose, so that I'm not scraping a festering cesspool.
White buckskin is smoked (to my knowledge anyway). To make it white, you soak it in fermented urine. The urea will "bleach" the smoke back out. I think Hunter63 discussed this somewhere on the boards.
In medieval times, people would save their urine in large kettles to sell to tanneries.

Also of note, tho I'm not sure it was the comanche method, sometimes canine dung was used in place of bucking (called bating), then the hides were chewed soft (saliva reacting with the dung as the "braining" step), and fresh urine applied. This somehow circumvents the smoking process through chemical reactions that I do not fully understand, mostly because I don't collect dog droppings, nor are my teeth in good enough shape to be chewing on dookie saturated skins.
After smoking, you could wash your buckskin several times and it will be almost white. I'll try to remember to take a picture of my shirt again since it's been washed.

While I don't agree with all the info in this article, based on my own experiences and what little I know about science> http://www.publicbookshelf.com/publi...oryof_cff.html
It is a good "primer" with some info on the questions you asked, and much of the info is accurate. Particularly we are working with collagen fibers and NOT gelatine, which is the "goop" that we want to get out of the skin in order to tan it, and which is the primary constituent of "hide glue" and jell-o. Take what you want from that article, but I encourage you to do more research on the actual constituents of skin. Several items in that article are inaccurate by my account.

I hope I've answered your questions. Let me know if there's any way I can help!

----------


## rwc1969

Feels like chamois kind of, very soft, not like leather at all, completely different, indescribable really.

----------


## randyt

thanks for the info, that's interesting. 

I have grained green hides, I thought it went well. When I buck a hide it seems to bunch up when I try to scrape it. sometimes a divot will come out of the hide. I should give it another try.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Try pulling the hide tight across your beam and taking shorter strokes until it gets realigned lenghtwise of the beam. The bunching is something I've learned to work with as the buck makes the hide much more "rubbery". When the hide reaches it's "just right" stage for scraping, the grain peels off in long ribbons.
When I place a hide on the beam I pull it lengthwise, then grab the sides and pull straight down, stretching it widthwise over the beam also. This helps keep the whole skin surface in contact with the beam. If you just throw it up on the beam and get to work, bunching can be frustrating. Might be worth a try to see if the stretching works for you. Seriously, the ease that bucking brings makes it worth the wait in my experience.
The last green hide I tried to scrape bruised my hands because the scraping was so tough.

----------


## RandyRhoads

YCC- Does it have to be HARDWOOD ashes or are they just better than soft woods? What about ashes from other things, such as burning junk mail?

----------


## RandyRhoads

Also can you help with these problems i'm having. 

These are pics from half way through fleshing.

Am I taking off too much/the wrong layer fleshing? Or is the white part the right one.
DSCN0363.JPGDSCN0360.JPG


I have holes tearing alot, is this because i'm taking too much off, just because rabbit is so thin, or what?

Also some of the holes tearing are actually tearing from the back! They don't go all the way through, but while i'm fleshing I see weird spots and turn the hide over, and there's a big spot with no hair, even though the other side isn't torn. What the hell.....

DSCN0366.JPGDSCN0361.JPG

Also how do you store the brains until you're ready to use while bucking? Just leave them in the head and hand it up in a cool place?

----------


## jake abraham

thanks ycc keep up the great work

----------


## your_comforting_company

I'll start with the easy question first

Bucking can sometimes take 2 days and up to 5 (typically 2 or 3). Brains spoil rather quickly, so I freeze them in the deep freeze until ready to use them. One method I have used, is to go ahead and remove the brains and mash them into the liquid paste. I use what we call "deer moss" or "brain moss" that grows along the ground under trees. It is typically grey-green, greyer if it's dry and greener if it's wet. In this case it needs to be dry and absorbent. Soak the moss in the brains and hang it up and dry it. When you are ready to use it, just soak the moss in water and squish it out.

Rabbit is very thin. I wonder if your tool is sharp. What you are seeing is the fiber network being seperated down to the grain layer. The grain is very tight-knit and reasonably tough. If you scrape too hard on the flesh side with a sharp tool, you end up damaging the fiber network, but you can still see the grain layer. My guess would be that you are fleshing a little too much. Remember, you just want to get the meat and fat off. Keep a light hand on thin-skinned animals. 
You should be able to draw your tool across your arm and it NOT cut you. if it's any sharper than that, you should dull it! Sharp tools are for dry-scrape, dull tools are for wet. One more reason I love wet-scrape!
I hope that helps! Keep me posted!

P.S. I started that beaver yesterday. Pics coming soon! And talk about tough to flesh.. Whew.. that little pelt took 3 hours!!

----------


## RandyRhoads

Thank you. Awesome way to keep the brains in a primitive matter, which is what I was after. I assume most most will work the same as your "deer moss"?

 So in the first pic do I want it like the left side or right side?

----------


## RandyRhoads

I'm still having major issues identifying which layer is which, which one I want to get rid of and which one to keep. This skin is so damn thin I would kill for a deer skin. Or at least someone being here in person able to go" there! that one!" and point to which layer in my multi layer skin is the right one.

After bucking I took it out and scraped what hair I could. I think it definitely needed to be bucked longer as some spots of hair wouldn't come off. But the hair that did come off easily amazed me. A slight push of a dull knife and it slid right off. This swiss cheese looking thing is pretty pathetic but hopefully i'll get the hang of this.

DSCN0367.JPG



For a little test I left the skin as in the first pics, half a layer left on half off so hopefully I can see which is the better one. I noticed after bucking the (right side in first pic) membrane came off a lot easier than while fleshing, so I think I need to leave that on until after bucking.  This is the flesh side, can you tell if I want the red or yellow side layer? Does that yellow outlined layer need to come off?
DSCN0370.JPG

Hair side- Scrape the yellow and leave it like the red side, correct?

DSCN0369.JPG
DSCN0372.JPG

Here is a pic of it held up to the light showing the different layers in question

DSCN0373.JPG

----------


## RandyRhoads

And two more showing the flesh side with a layer of something that's on pretty secure, and difficult to remove.


DSCN0375.JPGDSCN0374.JPG


I would love all the advice, opinions you can give me. If you could review the pics/ info and help me out,step by step (as much as you can stand) I would appreciate it more than you can imagine. This is an awesome skill you have mastered and I would love to be able to do it a tenth as good as you do it.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I thought I had a picture of deer moss growing on the ground, but all I could find is a pic of me holding some, which isn't the greatest pic..
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Pic 369 above is looking good except for all the holes lol. The red outlined area looks clean to me. Good job on the red area.
 pic 372 the lower left red outline looks good; the top red outline looks like you did *too good* a job fleshing and maybe the ashes stuck; the yellow outline looks like it needs to be scraped. 
The bottom two pictures looks like you left a little membrane on after fleshing, which is totally fine. I usually do a pretty sloppy job fleshing, mostly just getting the meat and fat off. The membrane will stick with the ashes and scraping them off after bucking leaves the skin mostly white and ash-free (unless you get in a hurry and do a sloppy job here too...slow it down ycc!). I would rather leave membrane to be scraped after bucking than to have a totally ash-stained skin that is already too thin to scrape clean afterward.. Less is more!
370 is flesh side? yellow looks about right to go into the buck, and needs to be scraped off now. red should be a little cleaner after scraping once bucked, so I'm thinking you might have fleshed a little too deep on that before bucking.

Did most of these holes get put in there while scraping? I've only seen hides with that many holes when it's starting to rot. So I ask does it smell rotten? After soaking in the ashes, it'll smell unpleasant, but not rotten.

373, here's what I see: left side needs scraping a little more, to the right of it looks just right for scraping after the buck, and the top area looks like it's been scraped clean and is actually really good for a first skin! The topmost hole looks like you might have had a heavy hand while scraping and tore it, judging by the little tag hanging at the bottom of the hole. Just a guess tho.

374 & 5, depending on where that bit is located, it could just be some tough 'gristle'. around the neck area usually is pretty tough, at least on deer and fox (and especially that beaver!). Usually that membrane layer is fairly loose except in those areas that have to be tough, like necks and legs. It's that gristle that keeps the skin from twisting around on the animal 'till the ends are switched lol. Necessary for the critter, aggravation for us!

And I missed a question earlier too.. Hardwood ashes contain more Potassium Hydroxide, and Calcium Hydroxide (and carbonate), than softwoods. I do not know if paper contains the same/similar amounts, but I do know that jailhouse tattoo artists burn paper and mix with water to make ink. I would be very cautious of using paper as it's possible that it will stain it black. Oak, Pecan, Hickory, dogwood, all contain high amounts of "lye". This allows a lower ash:water ratio, a more liquid paste, and less mess (yeah, right). Softwoods, would respectively have more ash to water, making a thicker paste which is more difficult to get the hide into. 
If you use the floating egg trick, you will have the right pH no matter what ashes you use. An egg will float upright in the [brown water] lye at about 12.9pH which is the important factor as it retards bacteria and enzyme activity AND dissolves that hydrogen bond.

Somebody said on here that they don't buck their deerskins, they just scrape them green.. I can't imagine the amount of work put into those skins because bucking really makes everything scrape SO much easier.

If you can get hold of a deerskin, you'll see right away which layer is which [I thought I had a picture of layers, but can't find it right now]. Thin-skinned animals are much harder to tell because each layer is so thin, and they are so close together. If you weren't on the opposite side of the rock, I'd say come over and lets take care of that bunny, but it's a little farther than across town lol. It can be frustrating and this is the same problem I had when I started. I didn't know which layer was which, where to stop, or really even where to begin for that matter. I butchered that poor deerhide, but that's how you learn!
You've got what it takes, I can tell because you haven't given up! You'll figure this out before long and be kicking yourself in the butt.
I don't care what anybody else says, *you're doing great*. This is how I learned and I'd argue that everybody else that has tanned made the exact same mistakes and had the same questions you do. I know I did, and once I got the hang of it, I got addicted. Keep at it and maybe I'll see you in "tanners rehab" haha!

----------


## your_comforting_company

although this is a deerskin and does not show in detail the flesh side layers, it does show the top grain side pretty well.
http://youtu.be/2-3BDXzC2Gs

----------


## randyt

I've scraped some hides green didn't find it difficult at all. I learned about scraping green hides from a lady friend. It's her preferred method.

I usually don't green scrape  or wetscrape  because I'm on call and can be pulled away from a project at a seconds notice. It don't happen a lot but it can with no notice. I prefer fleshing on a beam and then stringing the hide in a frame to dry. I only dryscrape if the hair is coming of. It works for me

----------


## RandyRhoads

Thanks a bunch YCC. You went into great detail. It turned out like a crinkly piece of crap but I did get one area semi soft and pliable, so now I know how far to go when fleshing. I think I dried it too quick and didn't stretch enough. I smoked it and rebraining now to see if it changes, but i'm pretty sure it's a lost cause trial sort of thing. Especially since now the brains don't smell too good...DSCN0404.JPGDSCN0405.JPGDSCN0406.JPG

How do you brain tan with fur on? After bucking the fur comes right off? What alternative is there?

----------


## your_comforting_company

For furs, you don't buck the hides. A fresh green hide will get a good water soak and soapy wash. Typically I'll frame furs and salt them to get the "ground substance" out. That's the nice way to say mucus. Traditionally, salt was an expensive commodity and natives would walk as far as Apalachicola or Panama City from here to trade for sea salt. I don't think they would have wasted it on tanning hides, since it creates extra work with rinsing it back out. So, an unbucked green hide that has been fleshed really well and washed gets a little squeegee to remove most of the excess water, then hung in a frame. 
At this point, you can either let it dry on out, or wait for it to reach "ideal moisture" and go ahead and brain it. If you time it just right, you can do this on a Friday, and brain and soften on Saturday, and smoke it on Sunday.
Flesh, wash, squeegee (flesh side only!), frame, salt (optional), wash again (to remove the salt), brain & soften, smoke.
Don't waste your time doing hair-on deer as the hairs are hollow and it might last a couple years, but it will eventually get brittle and break.. then everywhere you go you leave bits of hair. I'm doing an experiment on a hair on deerskin with neatsfoot to see if it'll keep the hair from becoming brittle, but it could take a couple years to find the result.
Squirrels, fox, coon, I don't have the hair problem.. apparently there is a difference in "fur" and "hair" that I'm not entirely sure I can finger.
Short answer: just don't buck them, but do everything else the same.

Also worth mentioning, if you use a frame for softening, don't overtighten your strings! I'm moving more and more away from frames. Hand stretching hides over your knee or a staker will leave them more stretchy. This is a very desirable feature for clothing, so if it's going to be a bag, or other item that doesn't need stretch, the frame works well because you can see the whole hide at once (and you don't get soaking wet with brains).
Oh, and if you decide you do want to use salt, make sure it's non-iodized. I bought a 50lb bag from the farm supply uptown for $5. "Mix-n-Feed" cattle supplement. I don't know what the iodine does to the skin.. I was told not to use iodized, and so I never have.

In summary, bucking a hide is only for hair off tans. Not sure if you caught this thread, but this is the black fox squirrel featured in the Kabar pictures in another thread.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...s-the-easy-way
I buck for leather, rawhide, and buckskin, and just frame and brain furs.

----------


## your_comforting_company

At class yesterday, for the sake of moving things along, we stopped softening the hide and moved on to smoking. This let some of the thicker areas get a little stiffer than I like, so as soon as things thawed out this morning, I rebrained it. This hide has been smoked and now dunked and is dripping. I use two terms interchangably: Pre-smoke, and Re-brain. This time, I think we'll call it rebraining.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Gave it a good wringing out by hand. It dries really fast where it is completed, and now I can focus on just the areas that got stiff. The soft areas are preserved in a soft state, and the stiff areas become sloppy-wet again so that I can work it soft.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Hopefully you can see the areas that are really wet, compared to the places that wrung out really well.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Some areas that didn't get grained well enough while scraping. They stay white.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

In just a few hours with slight breeze and temps right around 34, it's soft and dry again. This took very minimal effort and I worked it soft between softening the bobcat.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Nice weather for tanning!
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Some talk about the tools, beam, and posture. Make yourself comfortable, put good handles on your tools. No leaning, bending, or standing with your knees locked!

----------


## your_comforting_company

Using Calcium Hydroxide (CaOH) to buck a hide, the cloudy rinse, and some more scraping. Hopefully it is clear enough where we missed some grain.


Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## your_comforting_company

A few details about the reason we grain twice, and some scraping the membrane side. CaOH seems to soften the hide a little too much and should be rinsed out. I normally use CaCO3, and it isn't a problem.

----------


## your_comforting_company

For those that still might not be convinced that buckskin is just as washable as what you already wear. This is the hide the class made. I brought it home and washed it with some good smelling bath soap. If it's good for your skin, it's good for buckskin. Avoid using harsh detergents and cleaners. For heavily soiled buckskin, I have used Lava soap and a brush (like you scrub under your fingernails). Under normal circumstances, as a first washing, all you need is a run-through with some soap, and a line to hang it on to dry. As it dries give it a stretch once or twice, for what really only takes a few seconds to a minute, and it will be just as soft as was when it was finished and freshly smoked.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I had a request to show what happens when a hide gets stiff, but looks "fluffy". When drying a hide, you are working with weather conditions for the most part. I spent all day with this HUGE blanket sized hide, it was cloudy, windy, and cold, and at most, I would spend 15 - 20 minutes at a time working the hide, then a break between. VERY SLOW drying allowed part of the neck, right around the edges, to get stiff. It was 1/4" thick at the end of the neck, very rubbery, hard to stretch and hold on to. An area about an inch wide around the edges of the neck (which is the throat, where the hide is split when skinning) dried in the center, into translucent rawhide. 
Evaporation works on the surface, so both surfaces dried nicely, but the middle dried very very slowly. You'll see what I'm talking about.






Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

This is what a cross section *should* look like
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

(Edit: I decided to save shrinkage for another discussion)

----------


## crashdive123

Well done YCC - I fixed the video link for you.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Thanks! 
I'll figure it out one day haha!

----------


## Crooked Bird

your_comforting_company, i just want to say, I've looked at maybe a couple dozen tutorials while trying to learn how this past two months (just finished my second decent-looking hide) and yours was among the best, if not THE best. I bookmarked this forum because of it.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I appreciate that, Crooked Bird. I hope to see some of your great works soon. It's been so hot here all winter, that I haven't had much time to tan, but I have classes coming up on Feb 2, and 8-10, so starting next week I'm gonna polish up the beam, sift through the ashes, and tan some hides. If there are any details you would like me to cover in another video, please let me know, and I will borrow the camera again. [I bought a tripod for it lol]

----------


## your_comforting_company

I don't know if I covered this already, but the question was proposed at class, and I thought I might include it here.

One reason a buckskin might get stiff, is that you didn't scrape all the grain off, or didn't scrape deeply enough.
Always scrape at least twice, in a different direction. The first scraping, I like to do while the hide is completely saturated with alkali. This keeps the hide swollen and the glues disturbed enough that it won't start to "set up" while you are working. After the first scraping, I give a quick rinse, working the hide into clean, running water. It will begin to resume it's former floppy, clothlike texture.After the rinse, scrape a second (or third) time in a different direction. The initial rinse will reveal any grain you missed. The fiber network will have a very white, alabaster color. Grain will have a yellow tinge and often you will find it in strips between your initial scraping stripes.

Another reason, it might still have alkali (buck) in the thickest areas
Rinse, wring, repeat. Alkali left in the hide will immediately react with the brain solution; The buck being alkali and the brains being acidic, will react with one another to create a "salt" precipitate. In water, this would fall to the bottom, but within the fiber network, they just sit there, filling in the spaces. Multiple wringings and rinses, although time consuming, will prove valuable to the braintanner.The neck, down the spine, and two pads on each side of the rump, are very thick and VERY absorbent when properly scraped. A second or third scraping helps to squeegee out any alkali, in whatever concentration, as well as removing any grain that might have been missed. Multiple scrapings not only improve the quality of your buckskin, but also aid in removing excess alkali.

Your brain slurry mixture is in too low of a ratio.
On the last wringing, collect all the water that you squeeze from the hide in a bucket, and measure this amount. This is almost exactly how much water the hide can hold. use slightly less water than this when making your slurry.One deer's brain is enough to tan it's hide, true, but this does not account for environmental conditions, like humidity (or lack thereof). Use more brains than necessary if you have them available. If not, use slightly less water. The water soluble oils are the important factor. As the water evaporates, the oils are left behind, and as the hide is worked the oils keep the glues from reattaching to one another and making rawhide!

You took a break and the outer layer "glued" itself back together
This is particularly common on windy days with low humidity. Use your buffing tool to break up this thin layer of glue.Often, the flesh side sets up first. This is the side that goes against your skin and you will find it very uncomfortable as it chaps your tender parts. The stringy bits that might have been missed, will dry quickly. If your staker is abrasive, this is easily remedied.If you must leave the hide, roll it back on itself, bag it, and stick it in the fridge. At this point, you've probably got the edges soft and you don't want to lose your progress. It is better to start over with those parts being slightly damp, than to try to FIX parts that got stiff!

You stopped softening before the hide was completely dry
My hands are not very sensitive to things like  moisture or temperature because my palms are covered in callouses. Use the BACK of your hand to test if the hide is dry. A dry hide will have a "warm" feel while a hide that has even a slight amount of dampness will feel cold. Don't stop until it feels warm to the back of your hand!

So.. something, somewhere in the process, went wrong, or something came up... What do you do now?

There are two options: Rebrain, or Presmoke (another misnomer). As I said before, I think the two terms are interchangable, so call it whichever seems more suitable to you!
Rebraining is just that, dunking it right back into whatever brain slurry you have left after wringing, and starting over. Often this is a perfectly viable solution, especially if stiffening occurs early in the softening process.
However, chances are that you've been softening for a good while before it gets stiff and you don't want to start over. You can save your progress on the soft parts, by continuing on with the steps, and smoking the hide. Remember, it only takes about 20 minutes of smoke for a hide to be functionally tanned (using the "sack" method). When that time is up, you can go right ahead and dunk it back in the brains. You won't have to worry about the parts that previously softened, you can focus on the areas that are the toughest and take longest to dry. It will fade the color slightly, which is why you shouldn't spend a lot of time smoking a stiff hide. Once it is soft and supple, like you like it, you can smoke it again to get the rich colors you want.

If there are any other complications, please get them up and I will do my best to address them!

----------


## your_comforting_company

Trying a new color. I finally used up all of my Post Oak, and didn't want the reddish color of red cedar, so I went stomping around the woods and found some rotten bald cypress knees near the edge of a nearly dried-up pond. They snapped off right at ground level with ease.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

After an hour an a half, I had a pretty fair color. 30 minutes gave such a light color, I could barely tell it was smoking at all, except that I could see smoke permeating the hide. I let it go twice as long as normal, and used roughly 5x as much punk wood as normal.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

opened up
I smoked two hides with the bald cypress and got almost exactly the same colors given the length of time. 
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

It is a very "mute" color. Not incredibly bright in the sun, nor reflective. Almost looks 3-D. I'll try to get better pictures if the sun comes out today. 

And just for kicks. Anybody remember the story about the 8 point I got last Christmas eve with the black powder rifle Grandad gifted me? This is that buck, softened and HUGE. I can wrap it all the way around myself the narrow way. I'm thinking of making a fancy buckskin jacket, but I don't know. "Fancy" really isn't my thing  :Smash: 
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## crashdive123

More great stuff.

----------


## your_comforting_company

The 8pt I've been going on about. Looks better in the sun. It's a very creamy, flesh-colored tan. The pictures really don't do it justice.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

two smaller hides, smoked for slightly longer times. I like the color and will be using bald cypress more often, I think.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

What do you think? Good color? too light?

----------


## crashdive123

I like the lighter color.  Sort of looks more natural to me.

----------


## your_comforting_company

One of my students went home after the class and started tanning buckskin  :Big Grin: 
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

My knapping mentor spent some time with me a few weeks ago and for his time, I gave him two buckskins for his "workshirt". He went with lacing from one of the utility hides instead of all that tedious sewing. Control yourself ladies!
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

My oldest son, with his first buckskin. I helped a little, but he did most of the work and he sure is proud! He says next year he wants to finish it with one of his own deer to make a nice shirt (fancy-froo-froo) hahaha.. I'm picking at him  :Wink: 
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## crashdive123

Great stuff YCC!

----------


## hunter63

That's great, something about wearing your own hides......
Nice work....and it *is* work, congrats!

Have one hide from a deer I killed, that I had to chase down and find...dead.
Dragged it back, no snow on the ground......when I go back to the truck, found I had dragged all the hair off on spot on the side.

After I had it tanned, (I didn't do this one), there was a scrape mark on it, used that hide on the right leg of my buckskin pants.....when ever I sit down to eat, the plate rest on that scrapped spot. 
Brings back memories of that long drag...and my FIL sitting in the truck accross a 80 acre field, looking the other way...I would wave, he would wave back....but never knew I was dragging a deer back.....I can still feel the sore butte muscles right now, as I relate this......LOL

----------


## welderguy

Its rewarding to see something you taught someone actually being used, great post YCC

----------


## scottg

I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but first of all, YCC, this is the best description of brain tanning I've seen on the net - and I've seen a bunch.  Thanks so much.  I've done several hides myself, but I am starting to use Sodium Hydroxide as my bucking agent and wonder if anyone has any words of wisdom on it.  I'm finding (but I'm not blaming sodium hydroxide) that the hair comes off easily, but the grain is STILL very tough.  6 hours on one decent-sized hide just to grain.  Anyone with experience with NaOH (sodium hydroxide)?  I'm all ears....

----------


## Rick

YCC has been pretty busy lately but he'll get to your post.

----------


## your_comforting_company

The hair slips easily, but the grain is still tough.. My guess is that it needs another 24 hours in the buck. What are the temps in the area where you are bucking the hide? If it is super cold, it takes longer, and NaOH (I have not used it, btw) works quickly on hair. I suggest checking the strength of the solution, and possibly moving the bucket to a warmer area in the range of 45-50 degrees. Give it another day and try again.
Sorry I've been out so much lately. Been busy during the slow season, which isn't so slow this year.

----------


## scottg

Thanks for the response.  Yes, the hair seems to come VERY soon.  I put 1 tablespoon NaOH in about 2 gallons of water at 45-50 degrees (maybe a little warmer than that...), and the hair started slipping very well in about 7 HOURS.  The hide itself turns more like gelatin, though, so I took it out of the solution.  The hide looked very strange (the gelatin-like stuff), and I thought I had ruined it, but it seemed to come out pretty well, actually, after soaking it in water.  And, I did soak it in water for a while before graining.  I'm assuming that was my problem?  I was kinda concerned that the solution was still too strong (I've NEVER heard of anything working in 7 hours...), and that is why I soaked it in water first.   Prior to this hide, I put 9 tablespoons of NaOH in the same amount of water and that hide's hair started slipping very well in under 2 hours.  Too strong, definitely, which led me to think that the 1 tablespoon was also potentially too strong - even at 7 hours.  Anyway, I was thinking about 2 teaspoons in 3 gallons or so.  This would give the solution more time to work on the grain and not just the hair.  Thoughts...?  Again, I really appreciate this thread and your willingness to share your expertise.  The pumice, by the way, and as  you mention, is magic!   :-)

----------


## your_comforting_company

Ideally, you want a pH of around 12.9 with wood ash, sometimes if I'm in a hurry, I make it just a touch stronger, especially if it came from a male deer in rut. I can't imagine bucking a hide in 7 hours.. that's like putting it in before bed and working it after the first cuppa joe the next morning, lol. I'll do a little research on it as I'm waiting for the fog to lift so I can get started braining and softening a big one today. 
I've never had a solution strong enough to create a gelatinous goo in the buck. Is there any way to get a few pictures? sometimes seeing it is better than imagining it, lol. I assume the mixture is mostly clear. Are you giving the mixture time to cool after adding to the water? I wonder if the heat generated is enough to actually cause the glues to release from the hide, as if making hide glue. The chemical similarity to KOH would lead me to believe so.

----------


## your_comforting_company

> In a similar fashion, sodium hydroxide is used to digest tissues, such as in a process that was used with farm animals at one time. This process involved placing a carcass into a sealed chamber, then adding a mixture of sodium hydroxide and water (which breaks the chemical bonds that keep the flesh intact). This eventually turns the body into a liquid with coffee-like appearance,[12][13] and the only solid that remains are bone hulls, which could be crushed between one's fingertips.[14] Sodium hydroxide is frequently used in the process of decomposing roadkill dumped in landfills by animal disposal contractors.[13] Due to its low cost and availability, it has been used to dispose of corpses by criminals. In Mexico, a man who worked for drug cartels admitted disposing over 300 bodies with it.


from Wiki. Sounds like you got the Mafia's bucking solution...

----------


## scottg

Don't tell 'em!

I tried 2 teaspoons of NaOH in about 3 gallons of water.  A full 24 hours and it seemed perfect - until I got to the neck.  I put it back in for another 24 hours and it didn't seem to help the neck any, though.  I think I remember reading that KOH and NaOH may lose their potency somehow...(I don't know how that would happen, chemically speaking, but perhaps....).  So, I intend to make another solution tonight.  I have no pictures, unfortunately.  Do you actually check your pH regularly, or just use "til the egg floats" method?  Also, the gelatinous goo is only the part I'm supposed to be scraping off.  The part that remains seems fine and unaffected.  I think I'll continue with the NaOH for now, and just be careful with the concentration - lest the mafia come down on me!  I'll have to pay attention to the heat thing.  I didn't notice it too warm at all, but I'll have to pay attention to it next time.

----------


## alaskabushman

Super cool thread! A couple years ago I made some buckskin using the process outlined in "Deerskins into Buckskin" book. What a chore! I was already thinking about doing it again this fall and after reading this thread I will be doing so for sure!

----------


## scottg

YCC, I'm back at it!

I am definitely finding that the neck area is almost impossible to grain.  I'm curious how hard it is for you using wood ash.  I know this part of the hide is harder, but I'm talking almost impossible compared to the rest of the hide.  I use KOH (about 1 Tablespoon per 2-3 gallons of water).  It takes (for a big hide) about 2-3 days before it is ready.  The hair comes off pretty well, and the grain does too (except for the neck).  I'm just wondering if my results would be substantially different if I used wood ashes.

Would it be okay to resoak in the KOH after a previous soak in order to work on the neck some more?  I've rinsed it due to my fear of it dissolving the hide itself if left in too long (which I've done....).  I guess my question is, "do you ever NOT get a hide grained properly and have to resoak it in your bucking agent"?  In other words, you thought you had it grained well and you rinsed it all out only to realize that you missed a whole lot more than you thought so you resoaked it in your bucking agent.

Thanks!

----------


## your_comforting_company

I have done that! The wood ashes will stain the parts of the hide where the grain was removed, but if you are using something "clean" like KOH or CaOH, you should have no risk of staining. GENERALLY speaking, I wait until the hair will rub off easily with my fingers, then grain. Last one I did took 8 days in wood ash and it grained so easily. *of course, there were about 3 days where the temps barely got in the 40s, so it was really only like 5 days*
I'm not sure what you are using for a beam, but try something with a smaller diameter. I have 3 different sizes of PVC pipe I scavenged. On a big buck, I use the 3" pipe for the neck, and the 6" for the rest. Every once in a while, I get one that works well on the 4" for the neck area. It all has to do with how much surface area is between your tool and beam. If it is terribly hard, then the resistance created by the larger surface is what's hurting you, and a smaller beam will make it easier.
Wood ashes contain all those different agents, KOH CaOH CaCO3, among others, so I would not think ashes would necessarily be "better". I recommend resoaking it and trying a smaller beam, but to answer your last question, Yep!

----------


## scottg

Thanks for the response.

I use about a 4 inch PVC pipe, so I don't think that is the issue.  This is (for me) a very large deer (buck, I assume).  The neck is just giving me nightmares (and tennis elbow).  The hide is definitely clean (using KOH), but clean doesn't matter if it isn't working!!!  In one of your earlier posts in this thread, I think you mention that one of your hides was weak and you were putting holes in it during scraping.  I think (but not sure) that you just put it back in water to rinse it more and it seemed to get stronger and you could continue to work on it.  If that's true, I'm wondering if a hide can get to a point where resoaking in your bucking solution just doesn't do what it used to do.  In other words, the hide actually gets tougher and no amount of bucking solution will separate the grain layer correctly.  Does that sound possible, or have you ever experienced anything close to that?  The reason I'm asking this is because I've had two separate hides (the current one being one of the two) where the hide was graining fine, I got to the neck area, got tired, put it back in the bucking solution for another day, and when I got back to it, the neck seemed even harder than it was the first time I was trying it (when I got tired).  And then, no amount of bucking seemed to help it.  It only made it worse, in fact.  It seems that the very first time I grain a hide is the best, and if I come back to it later (whether soaking in bucking or just water), it is nightmarish.

Anyway, the rest of the hide is really going to be nice!

I have NEVER had a hide grain like your videos show it, and I'm just wondering if the combination of all the chemicals in wood ash is what really provides the perfect blend for graining.  

Lastly, my graining seems to work better when the hide is NOT in its "rubbery" stage.  If you put a hide in buck for the appropriate amount of time, all the hair is coming off just fine, and then you rinse and soak it in water for a day BEFORE actually trying to grain, does the hide completely go back to what it was BEFORE the bucking soak?  My thought is that the bucking solution did make some permanent change to the hide and soaking it in water first before I grain gives me an unswollen hide, but one that still is ready to grain and has all / most of the benefits of the bucking soak anyway.

A lot, I know.  Don't feel like you have to respond to all this unless you really want to!  Thanks!

----------


## your_comforting_company

I do want to respond and help figure it out, so bear with me.. I haven't had all my coffee yet this morning  :Wink: 

Bigger deer = tougher grain, especially necks.
I had let one stay in the buck until it really was eating at the fiber network, so in order to be able to grain without tearing it all up, I had to rinse it some. The bucking solution reacts with the loose hydrogen bonds (mucus) where the grain and fiber network meet. Once a hide is effectively bucked, the bond in the papillary layer is forever gone. (let me know if I lose you) Water causes a different kind of swelling of the hide, versus bucking. By rinsing, you stop the "digestive" process, or at least slow it down so that the hide is less swollen and less susceptible to tearing. If you leave one in the buck for too long, it will just turn to goo. It is possible that the solution is getting too weak, and might need to have a little added to it.
To add to this, I know some people who do not use a bucking solution and just let a hide soak in water until it's ready. I suppose this takes a long time and for the sake of speeding up the process I choose to buck my hides, not only because it makes it easier, but also because timing is pretty critical. I usually tan on days when the weather is bad and I can't work, so I have to anticipate the rain/cold and try to get it done.
I have not experienced one getting tougher from soaking longer in ashes or lime. 
I almost always grain the neck first, as it's always the hardest spot, so by the time I'm tired, I'm at the easy parts.
I suppose it's possible that the ashes might have something that other solutions do not have, but I get the same results with CaOH, so I'm just not sure. I don't really have any way to analyze the components of the ash-lye.
Bucking definitely makes permanent changes to the hide.

I know it's frustrating, and I apologize that this thread did not cover your problem. I honestly suggest a 3" beam for the neck, and I suggest graining it first to conserve stamina.

----------


## your_comforting_company

You might also want to do smaller deer until you get the hang of it. My dad killed an 11 point some couple years ago and he swore I'd never get it soft.
But I did. It's on our bed right now as a blanket.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Now for something a little different: Braintanned hide with the grain left intact!

First question, "why leave the grain on?" two reasons: when smoked, the outside will still be white; The grain is tightly knit and provides extra protection from sharp things like briers

Secondly, "Is this still buckskin?" No. By definition, buckskin (from whatever animal) has the grain (and hair) removed to leave the soft, fluffy fiber network exposed. 
(I feel like I left out some details and questions, so ask away!)

How does this process differ from buckskin? More time in the bucking solution is the first notable difference. In order to avoid breaking the grain while removing the hair, you let it soak until the hair will wipe off with your fingers. In this picture, I am not using any tools to remove the hair, just my hands.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

You have to squeegee out the water instead of wringing. In this extensively bucked stage, the grain will literally peel off, so extended rinsing is also required. I was extra careful when working this one, and did not put a towel between the beam and hide. For more information, please refer to the "Utility Leather" thread, as the hide will get pretty much the same treatment up to the point of braining instead of being placed in bark tea.

After three good days of rinsing and several squeegee-ings, It's ready to go into the normal brain slurry. In this particular application I made twice as much slurry as normal, soaked it and worked it in really well, broke it open and got it sort of soft, then back into the brains for a second dose! The grain is particularly tough and not very permeable, so extra brainings are necessary to be certain you got good penetration into the hide.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

I used my smooth "utility leather" staker ONLY ON THE FLESH SIDE, and my lap to soften the hide. Drying is much slower and it actually took two days to work completely dry (off and on). Another difference I should point out here is that you only smoke ONE SIDE of the hide. The grain will not take color from the smoke, It's just too tight. Extended time on the smoker will be necessary to get an adequate tan. This one went for about an hour and a half, and just to be sure, another hour the next day.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Here you can see the smoked color of the flesh side, and the nice grain texture of the softened hide. This will make a very nice pair of mocs and leggings. Another advantage of having the grain layer left on, is that it can be treated to be water resistant with a lightweight oil, should you choose to. Oily leathers do not breathe well, so I elect to leave this as is. In this way, I can still wash it when it gets dirty. I might treat them later if they prove to be too absorbent. 
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Rick

I have to tell ya, you are simply amazing at this stuff. I truly enjoy reading your threads. I had to give ya some more rep on this one. Nice.

----------


## scottg

I have to agree with Rick; your explanation, pictures, time taken to post, and encouragement to others to try braintanning is truly amazing and appreciated.

I have done several hides (probably up to about 6 successful ones), but still finding that each hide is different (which you've noted before in this thread).  I'll have to really try the neck first next time.
I have ruined a couple hides because I was putting so many holes in it and didn't really even realize it until most of the way through.  It made me, shall we say, angry.  Looking back, it seems that you are saying that unless the hide had really turned "to goo" that I might have been able to rinse it well, stop the "digestive" process, and then grain.  Bummer.  It was a nice hide too.

So, I may choose to leave it in my KOH a little longer (on big hides), and then rinse it before trying to grain - it keeps me from having to wear gloves  :-)
I have tried this with at least favorable results, if not good results, previously.  As long as the mucus (papillary layer) is really gone, as you say, with a proper/adequate bucking, then rinsing it first should not make it grain any harder (theoretically, I guess).

I do NOT like graining a hide saturated with buck.  It may work, but it is NOT like the videos you post where you have long strips of the grain coming off...  I have "gelatinous" stuff that just doesn't seem right.  Anyway...

Your post about tanning with the grain on is interesting too.  I've wondered a lot about hair-on and grain-on tanning.  Everyone says "you HAVE to get the grain off to be able to tan / stretch / etc. it correctly."  But, I say, how does hair-on work, then?  I guess the answer is just multiple brainings and careful rinsings.  I'm assuming that the brain eventually works its way all the way through the hide via the flesh side, then.....?  This is why a thin slurry is better?

Lastly, I used lamb brains on one hide.  It came out okay, but did NOT like the way it (still) smells.  I typically use oil and soap.  This is very slippery, as you've noted previously, but seems to work for me.  I'll try eggs some day....

I do love this stuff, too.  I started it / learned it when I volunteered at an 1830's reenactment site in southeast Houston, Tx.  Learning more all the time, but I wish I knew it as well as you!

So, my final takeaway:  Start with the neck.  Buck a little longer.  Rinse before graining.  Presto!   Sound workable?

Thanks for listening!

----------


## crashdive123

Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## scottg

One more thing about the grain-on...

I'm assuming it can be soft (on the flesh side) but not as stretchy?  Since removing the grain seems to be what allows the hide to be soft and stretchy, I would think not removing the grain does prevent this, right?

On my hides where grain is left on accidentally in spots, it doesn't stretch well, and would definitely be rougher on the skin.  Am I missing something here?

----------


## hunter63

Tanning a hide in anyway is long hard work.....
Taking the time to write it up anong with pic's is a outstanding job.

Haven't done any in a while....I commend you for the effort.

----------


## your_comforting_company

I appreciate all the positive feedback! Thanks, gang!

I do hope for the success of anyone trying this, so let me see if I can touch the points scottg has presented.


I have done several hides (probably up to about 6 successful ones), but still finding that each hide is different (which you've noted before in this thread). I'll have to really try the neck first next time.
Each one is definitely different. I think it depends on many factors, including diet, terrain, sex, etc. For most deer, the guidelines set forth will keep you on the right track, while the hide itself really teaches you what needs doing. 

I have ruined a couple hides because I was putting so many holes in it and didn't really even realize it until most of the way through... Looking back, it seems that you are saying that unless the hide had really turned "to goo" that I might have been able to rinse it well, stop the "digestive" process, and then grain.
I'm thinking the lye might just be too caustic. crystal lye like you buy for drain cleaner is mighty powerful and pretty dangerous, so I avoid it. But to clarify, all the "bucks" react in one way or another with the loose hydrogen bonds in the hide. Once those are gone, it will react with the molecular bonds of the fibers. At some point the buck is going to start making the fiber network weak. Removing the lye from the hide stops this "dissolving" up to that point. Tick holes and scars are going to bust through if you are using too much pressure and especially if the hide has bucked to the point that the fiber network is weakened. I hope that makes sense.

So, I may choose to leave it in my KOH a little longer (on big hides), and then rinse it before trying to grain - it keeps me from having to wear gloves :-)
I have tried this with at least favorable results, if not good results, previously. As long as the mucus (papillary layer) is really gone, as you say, with a proper/adequate bucking, then rinsing it first should not make it grain any harder (theoretically, I guess).
Correct. The grain on the neck is quite thick and bonded really well. Once the hydrogen has bonded with the buck and precipitated, that's it. They can't go back. Rinsing should not make it any harder, and might actually help by reducing the swelling just enough that you are not fighting against the "rubbery" hide. sometimes the hide will bunch up in front of your tool and that makes holes! The swelling helps keep the two layers separate, and for me at least, seems to make graining easier, but also, I've had a few that were just a PAIN. 

I do NOT like graining a hide saturated with buck. It may work, but it is NOT like the videos you post where you have long strips of the grain coming off... I have "gelatinous" stuff that just doesn't seem right. Anyway...
This is what makes me think the crystal lye is just too much. Please be careful with that stuff!

Your post about tanning with the grain on is interesting too. I've wondered a lot about hair-on and grain-on tanning. Everyone says "you HAVE to get the grain off to be able to tan / stretch / etc. it correctly." But, I say, how does hair-on work, then? I guess the answer is just multiple brainings and careful rinsings. I'm assuming that the brain eventually works its way all the way through the hide via the flesh side, then.....? This is why a thin slurry is better?
Correct! The grain is not very stretchy at all, so it takes extra brains, extra work, extra time... so a thinner (a blender set to "liquify" is good) slurry is better IMO than just a hand mashed slurry, particularly where hair and grain are to be left on. Let me add to say that a fur-on tan will always have a bit of a papery feel because of the grain. They are not as stretchy as buckskin, by any measure, but are still soft enough for clothing. With furs, you can soak it in brains too long, causing the hair to start to slip. For this you need to try to limit liquids to the flesh side, so that the hair does not get and stay wet. I think "correctly" is being used in comparison to buckskin, so to that I say, no, your grain-on hide will never be that chamois light-soft, but it will be soft enough for clothing.

Lastly, I used lamb brains on one hide. It came out okay, but did NOT like the way it (still) smells. I typically use oil and soap. This is very slippery, as you've noted previously, but seems to work for me. I'll try eggs some day....
Maybe I'm just weird. I like the smell of brains. That is, until they've been out too long... peeewww!

I do love this stuff, too. I started it / learned it when I volunteered at an 1830's reenactment site in southeast Houston, Tx. Learning more all the time, but I wish I knew it as well as you!
Hey, man. I'm still learning and experimenting, too!

So, my final takeaway: Start with the neck. Buck a little longer. Rinse before graining. Presto! Sound workable?
Sounds like a plan! It's worth trying and if you still don't like the results, try a less caustic bucking solution, like pickling lime (CaOH). I get it at the grocery store for like $3 a pound which is enough to do two medium hides, and it won't melt your skin off if you get a little on you. Of course, it works a little slower, but you've seen how the grain peels off in ribbons. Something about your process isn't quite right, so change one thing at a time until you figure it out. I'm still thinking the lye is just too powerful.

Thanks for listening!
My pleasure! I hope you get it!

----------


## your_comforting_company

> One more thing about the grain-on...
> 
> I'm assuming it can be soft (on the flesh side) but not as stretchy?  Since removing the grain seems to be what allows the hide to be soft and stretchy, I would think not removing the grain does prevent this, right?
> 
> On my hides where grain is left on accidentally in spots, it doesn't stretch well, and would definitely be rougher on the skin.  Am I missing something here?


Nope, you nailed it. It is also quite heavy compared to buckskin. Also, you'll notice the thicker areas, like the rumps and necks take more effort. well, it's probably double the effort with the grain left on! The hide above is not nearly as stretchy as buckskin, but I worked that joker over pretty good, so it does have 'some' stretch.

----------


## scottg

Once again, amazing.

I worked for one and a half hours last night on just the neck.  Not done, yet.  It seems like graining a green hide, although the rest of the hide took just a few hours total several nights ago...

I really think I'm going to try CaOH.  It's either that or get access to a bunch of wood ashes.  I have my eyes on a BBQ stand down the street.  I think I'll talk to the owner about taking some of his ashes off his hands.  :-)

I'm going to have to try my hand at hair-off leather and hair-on as well.   So many options and possibilities!

Thanks!

----------


## scottg

Also, although not "natural" what do you think about drying out really hard-to-grain places, and then taking a dremel tool with sandpaper to it?  I'm thinking just enough to break the grain down a little.  I'd then want to resoak it and finish it off with my fleshing knife.  Should work, right?

----------


## your_comforting_company

heck, it's worth a try! I hope you get it, man! 
Just for your own reference.. I was graining what must have been a little baby yearling, really tiny hide, and still had to go down to the 4" beam to get the neck. 
Found out a few days ago that the grocery store has brains back in stock for me! About to go buy a whole case, just because I have so many hides this year that didn't come with heads.

----------


## scottg

Just to make sure our definitions are the same, what exactly is hard on the thicker parts of the hide?  I'm assuming that the grain just doesn't want to budge.  You can remove the hair fairly easily, but the grain stays put.  Does that describe it?

I worked another couple hours today.....still much left to do.

After a sufficient amount of time in the bucking solution to start graining, is the hide now fairly "rot-proof"?  I have a hide that has been bucked real well (still grain on the neck, of course), but I've had it sitting in water for a couple weeks at 50 or more degrees.  No significant smell.  Am I just lucky?  How much time do I have?  Should I put it back in the freezer if I can't get to it for a few days?  If I wanted to put it in CaOH (which I bought yesterday), I would have to wait several more days on top of that.  When will it start to go bad (knowing, of course, that other things like temperature etc. make this an inexact science)?

Whew, this is fun!  :-)

----------


## your_comforting_company

That describes it perfectly.
Toss it back into the freezer until you have time. Even with mild temps, bacteria can still grow. I'd give the CaOH a shot. That should keep bacteria at bay. It will need a few days of soaking at least. with the ground substance out of it, you have a good deal of time before it will rot. I'd still freeze it till I had time to work it.
Just curious, how much did your lime cost at the grocery store?
AND... My local Harveys grocer has pig brains by the CASE for me! I bought 12 pounds for less than $35. That's enough to do 24 medium hides!! They are in yellow tubs from Smithfield Farms.

Was working that little one dry on Saturday which was a 20% chance of rain. Well, we ended up getting all 20% right here in my yard, I think. Humidity went sky high. But that hide is now softer than angel poots.

----------


## scottg

I suppose I'll have to try brain again, but I can't find it around here.  I just found lamb brain (and expensive lamb brain, at that).

My CaOH was less than 3 a pound.  Probably not great, but I wanted to try it until I found out how much I like it.  Then, I'll look into buying cheaper.  I bought Mrs. Wages....

I also talked to the BBQ guy a few miles from my house.  He can supply me with as much oak and pecan ash as I want, probably.  So, I'll definitely look into using the good ol' fashioned wood ash method.

I thought you said you only do 10 hides a year?  Sounds like you're having more fun than that!

I'm going to try one more time tonight, I hope, and if it is less than productive, I'll put it in the lime and wait a few days.

"Angel poots"  :-)

----------


## your_comforting_company

A lot of the agricultural lime has additives, but I think it'll work and it's a heck of a lot cheaper. A lot of my ashes are pecan, so that's great. you can't beat free!

If you're interested in doing the legwork, you can contact Smithfield farms here http://www.smithfieldfarms.com/b_pages/about.html to see if they can ship a case to your grocer, then ask the grocer if it's okay and get the address. I don't know, but it might be where you can buy direct. I only talked to the fella in the meat dept and they handled the rest.

Is there any way you can get a picture of it? It really shouldn't take that much soaking.

----------


## scottg

I put it in last night.

I'll see what I can do about a picture this evening.  I should be able to work it.

I'll look at it tonight (24 hours), but I was thinking late tomorrow was when I'd start to expect results.  And, if I leave it in til the NEXT day, it shouldn't hurt anything (in case my Wednesday night gets too busy).

That's one advantage I think I hear and like about either wood ashes or CaOH2 - if you leave it in for another day or so past when it is ready, it shouldn't hurt anything.  Using NaOH or KOH, that can't always be said to be true....

----------


## scottg

I'm trying to post some pictures.  We'll see how it goes...

This is the neck.  Still fairly slick, clean, untouched, and unscraped (unfortunately)...

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Fairly big hide.  The yardstick is touching the ground, as is the bottom of the hide.  Six feet total maybe?

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Yellow areas where the water has been squeegied out.  Only after this happens can I even remotely attempt to remove any grain.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Easily see scraped and unscraped areas.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## scottg

Two more.  First showing the valleys where successful scraping has occurred.  Each valley is WORK.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

See several square inches of unscraped area.  Just these couple square inches would take 20 minutes (at least).  Whereas, a spot this big in the middle of the hide would take 2 minutes at most.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Any comments?

----------


## your_comforting_company

Picture 3, above, looks right, but at that point I would expect the grain to be off. What are you using to scrape?
There is usually a definitive line where the grain is, and has been removed. Let me see if I can find a picture.

----------


## your_comforting_company

The raised places in this picture are leftover grain. The grain is much more yellow than the fiber network, where it has been removed.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

We're going to figure this out. It won't hurt to leave it in a few days extra. As long as it doesn't start to smell rotten, you're okay.
I know it's a lot of work, and it doesn't seem like you are making progress, but don't give up yet! We'll figure it out!

----------


## scottg

I would LOVE to have the grain on the neck of my hide that you have in the picture above.  I could take that off in 5 minutes.  My neck is solid grain with very few spots of fiber network visible.

I am using a "real" flesh knife.  It is not very sharp, and I'm tempted.....

----------


## your_comforting_company

I use a drawknife with the handles straightened to the side and it is dull enough to draw across your arm without cutting your skin. Maybe this is part of the problem? I'm not entirely sure what a "fleshing knife" looks like. I assume something a bit like an ulu?

----------


## crashdive123

Pretty sure a fleshing knife is just as you describe YCC.

----------


## hunter63

FYI......I made a fleshing knife/scrapper....old industrial hack saw blade.......teeth dulled down and the back side sharpened up a bit.....piece if broken banister rail for handles.....
Works well....
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Also used a wood "push paddle".....and a a old wood ironing board as a fleshing beam

----------


## scottg

Actually, this is the kind of fleshing knife I have:
http://www.flemingoutdoors.com/12-in...ing-knife.html

It is NOT sharp, not really a knife, in that sense, and is NOT like an ulu, IMO.  It is really used to push off meat, fat, sinew, hair, and grain, from what I understand.

----------


## hunter63

> Actually, this is the kind of fleshing knife I have:
> http://www.flemingoutdoors.com/12-in...ing-knife.html
> 
> It is NOT sharp, not really a knife, in that sense, and is NOT like an ulu, IMO.  It is really used to push off meat, fat, sinew, hair, and grain, from what I understand.


Correct...that kinda how it is.......

----------


## scottg

A few more pictures.

I needed to put the hides away for a few days since I wasn't going to be able to work on them.  So, I rinsed them real well and wrung some of the water out of them - just so they would have less water in them when I froze them.  In the first and third pictures, you can see substantial grain (on the neck), but the rest is starting to look pretty good.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Here, except for some small patches of grain, this hide (I think) is really impressive.  I'm happy (although tired)!  This has NOT been brained / oil and soaped at all - just fleshed, bucked, grained, grained, grained, grained, grained, etc. rinsed.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.



Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

I will be even more happy when I'm done with it!

----------


## psecody

I've enjoyed reading this thread a lot and have been given the inspiration I need to actually try some tanning this year. Thanks for making such an informative thread, it's a really interesting read. 
I thought of a question about the bucking part of the process. I noticed that you keep talking about time in the bucking solution and have noticed that your temperatures are always pretty low it seems whenever you're doing this. I only usually hunt during archery season (because I don't fare very well in the cold, I've been told it's a redhead thing haha) so when I shoot a deer it's usually around end of September or the first couple of weeks of October, so essentially we're still in summer weather here. You seem to let it sit roughly 2-3 days on average, from what I gather, in the bucking solution. I'm thinking with our temperatures these will be reduced by quite a bit? Or would it be best to just wait till about December/January till it gets colder? I guess what I'm asking is how hot is too hot to do this?  EDIT: Forgot to mention that I plan on using mesquite ashes for the buck since we have that stuff growing everywhere around here.

Thanks again for this interesting thread and the good explanation

----------


## your_comforting_company

@ScottG Looks real good except on that neck. Keep at it, it'll come off!

@psecody I would say anything above 70 degrees is too warm. Bacteria tend to grow rapidly as temps approach 80. This year, due to work and all the other projects I have going on, I have left some for as long as 6-8 days. This is really pushing it, but so far they have not become "rotten" while in the buck on very cold days (unusually cold this year?). 
Basically, if the hair will rub off with your fingers, it's ready to scrape.

----------


## wilderness medic

Maybe too much of a purest mind set but I don't like the idea of rebraining with another animals brains. Is there a point in doing half the brains, smoking, then rebraining? Or would that leave you at the same level and be pointless?

----------


## Tyrannocaster

I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to say thanks for all the information and photos. I registered just because of this thread.

----------


## Levi

YCC it has been very educating to read your posts. I know this is an old thread. I'm new to brain tanning and joined this forum specifically to try and get some answers to my questions. Here's the situation. I know this is long, so thanks for your patience in reading. And thank you in advance for posting responses.

I'm attempting to learn to brain tan. I am working in a 3rd world country and trying to learn this art so that I can teach it to the local people. I would like to teach them how to utilize something that is otherwise discarded. I'm trying to do this in a way that is totally reproducible by them. These folks can't order the tanning chemicals, hence why I'm wanting to brain tan. I've done rabbit hides and a deer hide with Borax and alum, but I cannot readily get borax and alum here either. Brains, on the other hand, I can get with the hide.

I can get cow hides for free and the head with the brain for about $4. I know that a cow hide is ambitious for a first brain tanning project. I was attempting to do this with the hair on. I got the hide frozen. It had been pulled rather than skinned with a knife, so there were minimal cuts/nicks in it. I got the hide fleshed out but didn't have time the same day to get it stretched. Since I didn't have time to stretch it that day, I put it in a bucket with fresh cold water (no salt) and let it sit overnight. The next day (about noon) I pulled it out washed it well and then strung it up on a frame. There is still quite a bit of membrane on it that I couldn't get off in the fleshing process. I was hoping to scrape/sand the membrane once the hide dried out. [Note, I used a machete blade to flesh it as I don't have a fleshing knife yet.] The frame is underneath a house on stilts. The area is closed in with metal siding. Even though there are windows on two sides, there isn't a lot of air circulation. The average temperature during the day is in the 80s year round. 

After about 72 hours on the frame, the hide has a repugnant rotting flesh smell. I went to check it out and the flesh side was drying well and didn't smell too badly. I checked the hair side and it smelled worse and when I scratched it with a finger, the hair slipped off. Well, I hope I can still salvage this thing for buckskin. There are some spots that are darker on the hide than others, but when I scrape the hair, the darker color goes away. Some of the areas where the hide is thinner dried well and the hair is tight. The thick spots on the shoulders, back, and hips slip really easily.

So, here's what I've done. I put the hide in a bucket of water with lime [made from cooking seashells over the fire and smashing them into a fine powder]. After 24 hours I pulled it out, returned it to the beam, and scraped the hair off. There was just a little bit of hair that was stubborn, so I returned it to the bucket of lime water. I'll pull it out in the morning and scrape it again to get the remainder of the hair and grain off.

There is still quite a bit of membrane on the flesh side. How do I get that off? Can I let it dry a bit and then sand it off or scrape it off with a pumice stone? I can't seem to get it to turn loose with the machete blade. Any advice on getting the membrane off would be really appreciated.

Here's another question for you. Do you have to do anything special to get the rotten flesh smell out of the hide? Or does it come out by the end of the braining/smoking process?

----------


## WalkingTree

Whoa.



> YCC - This is an outstanding explanation.


Yes.

----------


## kyratshooter

Levi this thread is 4 years old and YCC has not paid us a visit in 3 years, so do not expect him to answer.

As for the smell, if you catch the hide before it really rots and process it then the smell will go away eventually.  

The rotting smell is common to the tanning process and is the reason most of the old towns in the eastern U.S. have a road called Tanners Lane that is separated from the "better" part of town by a little distance.  The road was not named after a guy named Tanner, it was the place where the hide tanners worked and they wanted the smell away from the main part of town.

----------


## Levi

Thanks Kyratshooter. I figured it was a shot in the dark to get some responses on this one, but had to try. I'm trying to learn what I can. And thanks for the brief history of Tanners Lane.

I spent yesterday scraping the remaining hair off the hide and then scraping the membrane side. I saw one post where a guy recommended putting fine sand on the membrane when scraping it. That really helped. Then I took it to the river washed/rung it twice and now have it stretched on the frame again. The odor has decreased immensely.

Anyone have suggestions on whether I can paint the brain solution on each side and work it in rather than taking the whole thing off the frame again to dunk it in a bucket of solution? I wouldn't mind doing this for a deer hide, but this thing is heavy and hard to handle, especially when wet!

Here's what it looks like now.
IMG_20180901_175337.jpg
IMG_20180901_175320.jpg

----------


## kyratshooter

I always rubbed the brain solution into the hide while it was hanging.  I can not imagine trying to get an entire cow hide into a bucket.  You will have to leave the brain solution much thicker so it will stay on the hide and penetrate the pores.  That is what the braining part of the process is all about.

I know that larger hides were stretched for the fleshing and membrane process but most of the time when the braining was done they were covered in the brain paste and rolled up or folded so the brains could saturate the hide.

This is one of the best videos I have found on brain tanning.  However they are using deer hides.  A cow hide is a much bigger project and I might consider cutting the whole hide in half and working on a smaller scale.

This process would be magnificent for goat or sheep hides.

I have done them in this more traditional manner and I have used other methods that require more chemicals and other modern tricks.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CVtqjur2-4

----------


## Levi

> I always rubbed the brain solution into the hide while it was hanging.  I can not imagine trying to get an entire cow hide into a bucket.  You will have to leave the brain solution much thicker so it will stay on the hide and penetrate the pores.  That is what the braining part of the process is all about.
> 
> I know that larger hides were stretched for the fleshing and membrane process but most of the time when the braining was done they were covered in the brain paste and rolled up or folded so the brains could saturate the hide.
> 
> This is one of the best videos I have found on brain tanning.  However they are using deer hides.  A cow hide is a much bigger project and I might consider cutting the whole hide in half and working on a smaller scale.
> 
> This process would be magnificent for goat or sheep hides.
> 
> I have done them in this more traditional manner and I have used other methods that require more chemicals and other modern tricks.  
> ...


I watched the video. It is a great resource. How dry would you say my hide needs to be before applying the brain? I want to try to avoid cutting it in half for now, but we'll see how that goes.

----------


## kyratshooter

If you are putting the hide in a container of brain mixed with water the hide being damp when it goes in does not matter does it?

If you are rubbing in a brain paste then having it just a little damp might help spread the mixture.

Tanning is the removal of oils you do not want and the replacement with oils you do want, then braking down the cell structure to make the hide soft.

You can actually do a hide with no braining in the traditional manner.  Many Indian tribes tradition was that the women processes the hides by fleshing and then chewing the hide to softness with no additional treatment needed.  It takes days to chew a deer hide soft.  

That is how age of the women in prehistoric burials is determined.  Processing hides for a lifetime left their teeth worn down to the gum line by late middle age.  You can look at the wear on their teeth and determine their age.

----------


## Levi

> If you are putting the hide in a container of brain mixed with water the hide being damp when it goes in does not matter does it?
> 
> If you are rubbing in a brain paste then having it just a little damp might help spread the mixture.
> 
> Tanning is the removal of oils you do not want and the replacement with oils you do want, then braking down the cell structure to make the hide soft.
> 
> You can actually do a hide with no braining in the traditional manner.  Many Indian tribes tradition was that the women processes the hides by fleshing and then chewing the hide to softness with no additional treatment needed.  It takes days to chew a deer hide soft.  
> 
> That is how age of the women in prehistoric burials is determined.  Processing hides for a lifetime left their teeth worn down to the gum line by late middle age.  You can look at the wear on their teeth and determine their age.


Yeah, I don't think my wife would take too kindly to me suggesting that she sit there and chew the cow hide till it's nice and soft. I'd probably be sleeping out with the dog.

----------


## crashdive123

....and using a stiff cow hide for a blanket.

----------


## kyratshooter

And see there, you guys thought that men invented agriculture and settlement living.

It was the women that finally said "Hey, there's wheat growing here and cotton so we can eat bread and make fabric and quit chewing hides. Lets settle down and build a house with a little white picket fence and be farmers."

The men said, "Me hunter, you gatherer."

And the women said "Me gather right around the house here, and you can go hunt when the farm work is done!"

Guess who won that argument?

----------

