# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  Hard to believe it's time already

## grrlscout

But the planting calendar for the low desert says it's time to start our seeds.  :Ohmy: 

I didn't even have time to order seeds! So I pawed through the seed box, and picked a few varieties. Hope they work. Some are almost 3 years old.

We moved into this house in June, so the "garden" is still just an idea for a section of the backyard. In reality, it's hard pan clay, topped with decomposed granite, and laced with old wiring and irrigation lines.

Here's a pic I took when we first moved in. Now, the grass is looking really good. We cut up that fallen ficus for firewood, and pulled up those scraggle rosemary shrubs. The garden will go outside that kidney shaped brick border, mostly long the block wall, and where the rosemary was.

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Anyway, here's what I'm starting with...

On this tray:
Purple tomatillo
Zuni tomatillo
Buttercrunch lettuce
Lettuce mix
Saint Anne's lettuce

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Rear, L-R:
Zapotec pleated tomato
Chiapas wild tomato
Numex Sandia chile pepper
Habanero chile pepper (saved from a pepper I brought back from Cozumel, Mexico)

Front, L-R:
Beam's yellow pear tomato
Ancho chile pepper
Joe E. Parker chile pepper
Habanero chile pepper (saved from a pepper I brought back from Roatan, Honduras)

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Sorry for the poor focus, seems my camera was more interested in the back yard.  :Blush: 

I also planted a peach tree (Tropic Snow) last week. It's looking a bit sad now, but it is supposed to be dormant now.

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And, I ordered a couple blackberries (Roseborough), and they'll be here next month.  :Banana: 

Baby stepping toward the big plan:

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## crashdive123

Very cool - nice plan too.  I've got to get busy and build some new earth boxes.

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## Rick

You are both despicable. Here's a pic of my garden. 

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## hunter63

So why is it that you buy a pack of seeds for like 10 cents.....and save them for EVER!
I can't throw any away.....so because they are from like 1988 or whatever....you plant ALOT of them so in case they don't come up real well you have at least tried, Right?

The they all come up.........

Got a couple of months yet before I have to deal with it.......But Hey, Congrats......

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## crashdive123

Thanks for labeling the picture Rick.  I was wondering what all that white stuff was.

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## Rick

My seeds are so old I grow wrinkled tomatoes. My seeds are so old the green beans put the beans in a glass of water when they go to sleep. My seeds are so old the runners on my peas just walk. My seeds are so old my corn needs a cane just to stand up. I have old seeds.

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## Winnie

> My seeds are so old I grow wrinkled tomatoes. My seeds are so old the green beans put the beans in a glass of water when they go to sleep. My seeds are so old the runners on my peas just walk. My seeds are so old my corn needs a cane just to stand up.* I have old seeds.*


Nope, not gonna go there, I'm attempting a whole week of non smutty thoughts.(I just failed)

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## Winnie

My garden looks like the Somme at the moment. I like the plan.

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## grrlscout

> My seeds are so old I grow wrinkled tomatoes.


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> My seeds are so old the green beans put the beans in a glass of water when they go to sleep.


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> My seeds are so old the runners on my peas just walk.


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> My seeds are so old my corn needs a cane just to stand up. I have old seeds.


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Let's give him a big round of applause, folks! Try the veal, and don't forget to tip your waitresses!

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## grrlscout

> So why is it that you buy a pack of seeds for like 10 cents.....and save them for EVER!
> I can't throw any away.....so because they are from like 1988 or whatever....you plant ALOT of them so in case they don't come up real well you have at least tried, Right?
> 
> The they all come up.........


Totally! I think I planted four seeds in each container -- just in case.

Then I always feel a little bad when I have to thin them.  :Crying: 

One thing I hadn't thought of... someone told me that you should nick or file pepper seeds that you save before planting them. Oops! I had not done that. Oh well.

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## grrlscout

> You are both despicable. Here's a pic of my garden. 
> 
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Fine crop of snow you have going there!  :Smile:

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## hunter63

GS, I like your plan as well.....many winter evening were spent drawing stuff, trying to incorporate, succession planting, companion planting, orientation planting and green manure planting

Burpee at one time had a offer if you sent in a plane with number of plants you wanted to grow, they would send you back a plane with all these things laid out for you.

Mine came back telling me I needed a garden that was 150 ft X60 ft to make recommended rood for everything.....Garden had and still is, approx 24 x24'.....so I crowd a lot.
Now I see a couple of programs for this, for sale.....

Over the years I sorta got my methods down, revolving certain plants and families of plants around so as to not plant in the same place every year.....but I still try to plant big stuff in the back, short stuff in the front, facing south.

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## grrlscout

> GS, I like your plan as well.....many winter evening were spent drawing stuff, trying to incorporate, succession planting, companion planting, orientation planting and green manure planting


I tend to do my sketches during meetings at work. I would so rather be digging in the dirt, than sitting at the table, listening to a bunch of boring nonsense.

I am so excited that at this new house, I have so much more room. The usable space is still small, compared to that available to folks who live in the country. But it is so much larger than what I was working with at the old house -- 3 boxes, each about 4x4.




> Over the years I sorta got my methods down, revolving certain plants and families of plants around so as to not plant in the same place every year.....but I still try to plant big stuff in the back, short stuff in the front, facing south.


Working with that tiny space taught me a lot about succession planting, companion plants, and planting density. Sometimes trying to cram so many plants into such a small space bit me in the butt. Bugs and diseases had no problem hopping from plant to plant. The soil also had very little time to "rest". 

Of course, once I started to get it down, we moved. So I get to learn my microclimate all over again. 

It's funny, here we have to orient our gardens totally differently. Plants would burn up in a southern exposure.

In my plan, south is at the top of the page. The majority of the plants are on the west side. There, they will be shaded from the midday sun by the trees, and the late afternoon sun, by the neighbor's block wall. The should get a fair amount of morning sun though. 

The peppers, tomatillos, and sunchokes are in the most exposed areas of the yard, since they love the heat. 

I put the asparagus under the eaves to help slow erosion from roof runoff, plus they will get a lot of free water in the spring.

I put the blackberries over on the east side of the house, so they will be protected from the afternoon sun... but it might be almost too shady there for them. We'll see.

The vining plants go on the south side of the yard, because they will be shaded by the fence, and a tree. Plus they have room to along that whole bed, under the shrubs.

That's the plan anyway. I'm sure I'll screw up plenty of things. But that's just part of the process.

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## Rick

"So, grrlscout, what do you think of the proposal?"
"Broccoli."
Stares from everyone around table.
"I...uh...mean, I love it as much as broccoli. Great proposal."

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## hunter63

I used to fall asleep during meetings in my former life......wasn't too bad as long as I didn't snore.....LOL...If you do it right the top of your glasses frame will hide the fact that your eyes are closed.

I got rid of my blackberries seems they wanted to grow everywhere except where they were supposed to be.
At "The Place' we have wild ones growing everywhere.

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## Rick

That's interesting. Chris has mentioned that blackberries go wild but mine have not. I have far more trouble with the raspberries than the blackberries. If you keep the end of the stem from touching the ground they won't spread. If the end of the stem touches the ground it will produce roots and a new plant. Raspberries, on the other hand, send up shoots off the underground runners and it's a lot like Bop A Mole with those. 

I put up a section of fence about 7 feet high and just turn the stems back in through the fence. As the stems get longer I just keep re-routing them through the fence and I still have the original 8 plants I started with two or three years ago.

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## hunter63

Blackberries, raspberries, mint, horseradish....all very invasive....to the point that they crowed out everything else....not good in a small space

Oh yeah and egyptian (multiplier) onions as well......

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## grrlscout

I have heard that. It's another reason why I put the blackberries and sunchokes where I did. Those locations are either hemmed in by cement and/or brick, or near nothing that I care about.

The blackberries would be going against the side of the house, between those two cypress. There is already a brick-bordered bed there, with irrigation. It's just shut off. The soil is loose and sandy. I think they will like it there, unless they don't get enough sun.

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It's an old photo. There's now a plastic pool supplies box up against that wall, and we cut down the orange tree (way in the back, center), since it was dying. It'll be next year's firewood.

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## hunter63

Looks like you don't have to worry about mowing the grass.....LOL.

I had a chestnut tree next to the garden the root system poisoned out some of the growing area.....didn't know it till I planed it...so I try to keep stuff away from trees even though the shade might do them some good where you live.

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## grrlscout

> Looks like you don't have to worry about mowing the grass.....LOL.


Ha! Well, there is a little. I took some more updated pics over the weekend:

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The front yard is mostly grass too.

I want to put the sunchokes between the diving board and the grass. It's a mess there now, between the irrigation hose, and the cement pilings for the pool fence that we don't have -- I wish we did, but the guys who did the clean up for the bank that foreclosed on it threw it away!  :Thumbdown: 

Artichokes would go where that stack of flagstone is. I'll use that flagstone to extend the mini patio, and put the chiminea on it. Right now, that dirt is sandy and FULL of fire ants.  :sweatingbullets: 

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This is the blackberry zone. What a mess! This weekend I tried to turn on the irrigation, to no avail. I think it might be turned off at the valve, in the box underground. I'll check there next. I need to get crackin', since they are ready for pick up in less than a month!

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I'm starting to get a few seedlings already! Just some of the lettuces. Also, tons of MOLD  :Frown:  

I removed the lids, and scraped off as much of it as I could. We'll see.

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## grrlscout

Signs of life!

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Still too cold for some (primarily the peppers) of them. So I relocated them to the oven.

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## hunter63

A water bed heater works well as a flat heater, has a T stat .....that is if you remember what a water bed is, and saved the heater when the mattress got a hole in it and was tossed....seems I don't throw much out.

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## grrlscout

Good to know!

I figure if it still doesn't get warm enough in there (when I left this morning, it was still at 50 degrees. It needs to be 90!), I'll order a seedling heat mat.

Or I suppose I could just be patient, and wait for it to warm up.


... nahhhh!

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## hunter63

Gardeners by nature (get it nature?) are not a patient lot.....
 Plant two seedling trees, stretch out your hammock between them, in the morning....come back in afternoof, fully expecting to take a nap......

Got a 3000w Mec/vap light with transformer from a  friend that did a lot of growing?....put it on a timer,... drew so much juice that the timer cycled 24 hours in about 1-1/2 hour......looked like I had a space ship in the basement....light streaming out the windows......Just turned it off, didn't need the hassle.

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## Rick

That's the best laugh I've had today. Thanks!

And in other news....
The North American grid went dark last evening as transformers tripped across the nation. Homeland Security spokesman I.M. Heretahelp said they had traced the problem to Wisconsin and were working to find the source of the problem. He stressed that it was not a terrorist attack. "Something just sucked up all the juice," he said.

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## grrlscout

Well whaddaya know. Though it only got up to 70 in there, it worked! A couple of peppers and a tomatillo are now peeping out.

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## TresMon

All great stuff. Mr black thumb says: "tomatillo?"

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## crashdive123

It's a cross between a tomato and armadillo. :Innocent:

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## Rick

Don't ask for specifics. It's not pretty to watch.

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## birdman6660

Hmmm Planting time eh ? wonder what will grow at -35 and 3 feet of snow   ???  I may have to wait a few daze   heheheheh !

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## TresMon

> It's a cross between a tomato and armadillo.


Yah I was thinking some kind of armored 'mater.

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## grrlscout

> All great stuff. Mr black thumb says: "tomatillo?"


They're a bit like a ground cherry. Taste tart and a bit citrusy. Here are some I grew in 09:

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And with the husks off:

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If you have had salsa verde or green enchilada sauce, you have had tomatillos.

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## grrlscout

Blackberries are in the ground!

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Site prep continues. I dug up and set aside the existing irrigation, and tilled the whole area.

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Sooooo much gravel! I hate gravel.  :Hang: 

Next, I'll be forming the beds and amending the soil. Then I have to run the irrigation back in, and in the right configuration.

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## oldtrap59

Looks like you'll be one busy gal GS. Lots of work but lots of fun for us gardener types. Hope the plan works out for ya.

Oldtrap

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## grrlscout

Thanks, trap! Gardening is probably the second best way to get sweaty and tired.

Some pics I took yesterday:

Silly peach, it's only January!

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Hang tight, fellas! I'm working on your new home.

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## Wildthang

Girlscout doin work :no way:

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## grrlscout

Garden still looks pretty much the same. Only difference is that the holes are deeper, and the 2" irrigation likes are in. 

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My fence materials arrived last week, but I haven't had a chance to set it up yet  :Frown: 

My current starts aren't even in the ground yet, and I ordered even more seeds.

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From Native Seeds / SEARCH:
Parry Penstemon
Mexican Primrose
Desert Chia
Mrs. Burns Famous Lemon Basil

From Southern Exposure Seed Exchange:
Carwile's Virginia Peanut
Epazote

From Artistic Gardens:
Red Shiso
Poppy Corn - I actually ordered Borage. There was a fulfillment error.

From Botanical Interests:
Thai Basil
Purple Basil
Nasturtiums
Marigolds

I also ordered some asparagus crowns from Seeds of Change.

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## Rick

I just love nasturtiums. The leaves are the perfect size for hamburgers and add a nice peppery flavor. The flowers have an intense sweetness followed by a peppery warm. Your place is coming along great. Creating the space is as much fun as planting and harvesting.

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## grizzlyadam

Just read the whole thread. Love your plan, Love your backyard, Love that what you're doing will help the environment at the same time, and love the transformers!? Wait a minute! How didn't I hear about this?! Am I missing something? Lol

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## hunter63

Plants here don't know what to do, got all sorts of the early daffodils, tulips, and such coming up already....hope they don't freeze to death!

GS, looking good....nice plan.

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## oldtrap59

As of today. 300 tater sets out. 180 onions, half red and half white. 60 leeks transplanted.20 cabbage.30 brocolli.20 culiflower. all plants we started. 15 ft row of radish.15 ft row of lettus. 3 15 ft rows of carrots. 1 15 ft row of chard. When it warms up a bit we'll be adding to this list. ?? Have any of you raised Kohlrabi? If so what do you think of it?

Oldtrap

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## Rick

I think you're despicable. It's still February for cryin' out loud.

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## grrlscout

Worked my booty off this weekend! Most of the work I crammed into one day - yesterday.

Got the lil gate up on Saturday, and painted the fence posts, since Home Depot sent the wrong color.

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On Sunday, the fence went up, and I added the secondary irrigation lines.

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I'll need to tighten / straighten the fence a bit. But as it is, it keeps the dogs out, which is the main goal.

Monday, I dug out more of the soil, and replaced it with organic compost that I got from a local farm.

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I mixed it with the native soil, then started adding the emitters to the irrigation lines.

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I'm sure I'll have to reconfigure them, but by that time, it was 5pm and my muscles gave up.

I'll probably have to put in a few plants at a time, after work.

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## BENESSE

That's looking good, GS. (It's one thing I really miss where I live.)
You're doing everything right and it'll be that much easier to maintain later, when everything's in the ground and thriving. Can't wait to see the progress!

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## crashdive123

Great progress GS!

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## grrlscout

Thanks, y'all!

MOAR garden work done.

Planted the peanuts, and put up an anti-catpoop barrier 

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More amendments added: Vermiculite, Perlite, bone meal, blood meal, fish & kelp. I might add some moss too, as lack of tilth is the main problem with this soil.

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I'll have to pull up the irrigation and turn it when I get home.

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## grrlscout

In the hours before leaving on vacation for a week, I chucked everything the ground. 

When I came back, pretty much everyone was intact and adjusted. Lost one Chiapas wild tomato and a habanero chile (probably via cat). The tomatillos have flowers on them, and the tomatoes have flower buds. 

I think the peanuts have sprouted, but I'm not sure. There was a big wind storm while I was away, and it blew all kind of willow blossoms and seeds into the beds. So it could be one of those.

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Even the sunchokes have started poking out:

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The peach tree survived its brutal pruning, and is leafing out nicely

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Asparagus crowns arrived earlier this week, and they went into the ground this morning

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## grrlscout

I did a little gardening at work today too.  :Smile: 

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Directions:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Self...growing-herbs/

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## grrlscout

Four days later, we have germination!

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## grrlscout

It was rainy and cold this weekend, so I couldn't do much.

I made a bee block out of an old orange tree log:

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Since it was cold, I brought in the second round of starter pots, and added some cloches made from water bottles. I planted most of these about 2 weeks ago, and still no signs of life. They may be a bust. 

I also added the three cups in the back -- trying to start some jojoba from seed.

There's a 12" pot in the box in the background. Trying to grow some ginger in there.

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When I got to work today, it looked as if the windowsill garden is doing well.

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## grrlscout

My first asparagus is peeking out!

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## grrlscout

Spring is definitely here! Just got done mulching. Everyone is looking leafy and happy:

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Maters are gettin big

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Dogs managed to get in and munch on the lettuce though.  :Thumbdown: 

Put a border around the asparagus bed, and did a little engineering too. Trying to direct the roof runoff into the bed, instead of having it pool on the small patio, as it does now. Grr!

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There are exactly TWO asparagus spears poking up now.

Work done. Time to lounge in the grass with my best buddy, and watch the hummingbirds hunt gnats.

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## Rick

Dang it! We have a freeze advisory out for tonight. This just isn't right.

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## crashdive123

The garden is looking good.

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## grrlscout

Thanks, y'all! I need to take some updated pics. I went on vacation, and came back to find the tomatoes have outgrown their cages by a foot or more, and are full of lil green maters! Lots of new asparagus spears too, some baby tomatillos forming, the peach tree is nicely leafed out, the sunchokes are a couple feet tall, and the blackberries are getting pretty leggy.

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## grrlscout

Didn't have much time yesterday, but I did manage to snag a couple pics of the tall maters.

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The lower parts are getting eaten up by whiteflies and/or spider mites - they seem to come with the dry, windy weather. Grr!

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## Sparky93

In my book, that means it is almost time for a bacon sandwich with a fresh tomato on it!
I don't know if you do the organic thing, but some sevens dust would keep those mites at bay. My grandma uses a homemade organic.... er.... something.... I can't remember what she uses, but I can find out if you want to know....

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## grrlscout

I do try and keep it organic. I just try and hose the plants off periodically. That seems to keep them in control. But I have been so busy lately, I have been slacking.  :Frown:

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## Rick

Maters in April. That's just wrong.

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## Sparky93

> Maters in April. That's just wrong.


But so right!....

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## Winnie

That's a great garden there GS.

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## grrlscout

Thanks, Winnie!

Things are FINALLY starting to ripen up. Seems an uptick in the irrigation is all that was needed to push them along. 

The first tomato (abnormally large, for a pear tomato):

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and the first tomatillos (abnormally small):

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## grrlscout

Not much news here. The plants are getting big and sprawling. 

The yellow pear tomatoes have exceeded the wall, and are now creeping along strings that I have tied about 6' off the ground. Even though temps have been in the triple digits for weeks, they are still blooming, and pumping out about a dozen tomatoes a week (plus a few that the birds get to before I do):

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On the other hand, they are starting to show signs of stress. Some leaves are yellowing, and getting gnawed on by bugs. 

The Chiapas wild tomato and Zapotec Pleated are just now blooming. I have no idea if they will have time to produce before it gets too hot.

Tomatillo plants are MASSIVE, but not making many tomatillos.  :Sad:  Zucchs and cantaloupe are blooming, but not yet producing. Watermelon, peppers, and eggplant are looking scrawny and stunted. 

I just planted tepary beans and they are growing like weeds! I'll need to build a trellis for them PDQ.

In other news, the mason bees are finally laying in the bee block. I added a little bee bath for the to drink from, and that seems to have done the trick.

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