# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  Plans for an Off-grid paradise in South America, plenty of land, people needed.

## ArgentinianThoreau

I’ve been exploring the Patagonia region for three years now. Kayaking, hiking, you name it.

There’s plenty of uncharted and unsupervised land out there, that's no news. The problem with all of them is the same. Settling in protected areas is illegal. Not in the going-to-prison sense, but in the kick-you-out one. And in Argentina, it is very worth it to play with those odds. So you make your list of favourite spots based on this, and that's why I did. Sites close enough to civilization that bringing stuff in and out doesn't set off any alarms, and far enough that you won't ruin your cover by the smoke coming from your fireplace or the sound of your rooster. 

Here’s the secret: The reason so many sites are uncharted and thus unprotected, is reaching them is almost imposible. Patagonia forests are convered by this invasive species called Chusquea culeou, making it harder to make three steps without finding yourself trapped between walls of bamboos. 

Being a third world country, rangers aren’t paid enough, nor there isn’t enough of them to cover the huge protected area Argentina has, even less to make their way through this crowded vegetation that grows down south. 

There’s practically unlimited land to be gained over there. But in order to transform it, plenty of effort needs to be put into it. Getting rid of that bamboo and fallen trees requires massive ammount of work, I can’t overstate this enough!

This is part of the reason I’m here. Given how amazing I think this experience will be, I would love to share it with like minded people. I’m here to offer myself for guidance and as a partner in crime to create our own personal little paradise.

I’m an experienced gardener, I have all the crops and plantations planned out. Of course almost nothing can be sow until a few acres of forest have been cleared. I have made several cabins throughout my whole life and I’m currently researching and reading everyday to improve on this craft.

I’m also an argentinian national and know perfectly how to get around everywhere without getting into trouble. I’m 29 years old, above all things I’m an idealist, and intellectual, and due to high moral principles is that I can’t be a part of this corrupted society anymore.

---

Ideally I would like to start only with a few people, any plans for a larger community will have to wait until some space is created. Not all tasks in camp will require intense physical exertion, though being fit and trained is a must to live for longer periods of time in the wild.

Plans are for the summer of 2016, south hemisphere summer. Using the long, warm and dry days we should be able to have a few cabins built and a few acres of land cleared by autumn, just in time to sow our first crop of wheat and winter rye. Not to mention all the vegetables that can be grown during summer. The rest of supplies will have to come from the city. Anyone interested should join with a budget to cover air travel, supplies for at least a few years until total self reliance can be achieved, expenses for tools.. etc.

Above anything else, I'm looking for open minded, tolerant, peaceful, and optimistic people. This is not an escape plan from society, this is a plan to create something different. 
This is not a romantic endeavour either, nor a hippie loving take on life. This is serious work and will to create our own order from scratch. 

Willing to discuss any further ideas, suggestions and answer questions.

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## Rick

So, you want people to work for you clearing land, which is on protected land in Patagonia? What you are doing is illegal, by your own admission, and yet you claim to have high moral principles?! Seriously? It's sounds to me like the only moral principles you have are the ones that benefit you. Yeah, let me jump on your offer.

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## kyratshooter

Is this place named Jonestown by any chance?

Are copious amounts of kool-aid on the supply list?

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## hunter63

Bohahahaha...Like minded people.....Yeah right...
You are looking for slaves with money for your benefit.
Good luck with that.

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## kyratshooter

Included in the rambling I sense a theme that you intend to be the self appointed leader of this group.

I can see a tribal council meeting looming in the future and a torch being extinguished.

What happens when they vote you off the homestead?

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## 1stimestar

Bwahahahhaa.  But guys, he's a Argentinian national...

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## WalkingTree

I think homeboy came to the wrong place to post his spiel.

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## Rick

How can you possibly say you want to violate the law and get away from this corrupt society and keep a straight face?

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## hunter63

> Bwahahahhaa.  But guys, he's a Argentinian national...


From Belgium....?????
Yeah sure.

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## crashdive123

I think he meant to make his post on this forum.  https://www.theidiotboard.com/

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## Rick

And it has members (shaking head in disbelief).

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## tundrabadger

I am _entirely_ too sober to  grasp this line of reasoning.  I might have a few later,  if that's the case I'll cycle back and see what I think  then.  for the moment, though, I'll pass.

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## hunter63

Well, AT....It's like this...
Just checked with DW, says it would be OK when the 20 million I have coming for the Liberian Prince that is gonna put in my Pay Pal Account......

Well, actually she said it more like ....."FINE, Do what ever you want....but don't expect any of your stuff to be here when you get back....IF you get back".......
So you gotta go on with out me....For now.

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## LowKey

Plantations? Gonna hide those from fly overs?
Not to mention Argentina has possibly the highest crime rate on the planet. 
They won't ''kick you out.'' They'll probably shoot you. 
They'll shoot you if they are government rangers thinking you are in the drug trade, 
and they'll shoot you if they are in the drug trade and they see you in their territory.
I'm pretty sure you'd not want to experience one of their jails either.

A bunch of gringos won't stand out in a crowd at a market in small town in southern Argentina. Oh. No. Not at all.

Have fun! Sorry I have to miss it.

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## Wise Old Owl

its been done before.

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## Rick

Ooh. Here's a thought. There are a bunch of folks running around the country as we speak that are looking for a permanent home for the next 4 years. Why don't you round them ALL up and take them with you. You'll probably hear, "You're fired," a lot but just ignore that.

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## edr730

It would probably be easier to charge people $2000 each which would include flights and food and call it a jungle survival school. Gain permission to use the jungle by explaining that you are promoting tourism. Give them a certificate when they are done to show to their friends that proves that they are experts and both trained and vetted. I'm sure they would be excited to learn how to build jungle dwellings, dig wells collect firewood or whatever else you could think of. You could cover what ever jungle survival subjects that you felt they would be interested in.

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## Seniorman

Ah, the dream of Utopia never dies, does it?  Seems it's always "just down the road apiece."   :Innocent: 

S.M.

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## Rick

Ooh, ooh, here's another idea. You have all those refugee folks filling up Europe. Get a handful of them and head on down. They are experienced hikers. They understand how to do without. AND here's the big plus. They are looking for land too. That would be a win, win, win, win, win....win situation (depends on how many refugees you take as to how many wins you'll have). The more the merrier I say.

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## Desert Rat!

Guidance and a partner in crime, sounds like a politician  :Shifty:

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## Mannlicher

now this has been a real 'welcome to the forum' thread.    lol

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## kyratshooter

> now this has been a real 'welcome to the forum' thread.    lol


This is what we refer to as a "troll toss" Mannlicher.   Happens ever couple of weeks.

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## WalkingTree

drive-by

always be ready to duck

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## hunter63

The section says "General Survival Discussion"......
This is just training for General Survival....if you can't survive a bunch of Grumpy Geezers, that have some experience and sense....you are gonna have a tough time in the world.

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## Billofthenorth

He has one post and you guys go and do that. Even now he's probably macheteing his way through the jungle holding back the tears and muttering under his breath. "I'll show them, I'll show everyone. Mine will be the best jungle redoubt ever. I'll even find the lost city of Nazi/ Aztec/ Inca gold and they'll be sorry they made fun of me then." Sniff, sniff.


The fantasy and the reality may be quite different.

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## WalkingTree

Hey. She's kinda cute.

Or is it just the shirtlessness?

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## hunter63

Hey, eyes up here!........
( don't see a "blur" emoji)

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## WalkingTree

That's why they found them bones. Couldn't get anything done. Distracted.

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## finallyME

Just make sure if you go, that you aren't from the UK.  They really don't like people from the UK down in Patagonia.

Oh yeah, Argentina isn't a 3rd world country.

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## crashdive123

Thread closed at OP request.......well sort of.  He wanted the thread banned, but it serves as a very good teaching tool, so it'll stay.

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## crashdive123

Thought I'd bump this one up for those that may not have had a chance to read it.  

Here's another thing to remind people of regarding forums in general.  When you post and people interact with you the thread is not your property.  It belongs to the forum.  Sometimes mistakes are made and a polite note to a moderator will get that corrected, but complaining that it is your thread and you want it gone will only get the thread bumped so that those that missed it and never knew about the foolishness that occurred will be brought up to speed.

Continued whining may cause it to become a sticky.

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## crashdive123

It may be a good idea to unlock it as well in case there are anymore people that would care to comment.

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## hunter63

Yeah...Thanks.....
When ever I see a thread....looking like a personal ad looking for "Like Minded People" to go a do....fill in blank...and alarm goes off.

As a early subscriber to Mother Earth News Magazine back in the 1970's and 80's...there was a lot of personnel ads in the classifieds in the magazine. 
Before internet.

Was a warning going around at the time concerning some one that had answered one of these "Like Minded" ads.....and didn't end well.

At the moment I can't seem to find a reference....but left an impression on me back when.

When I see and hear these now...always seem that some one is looking for money, labor and "followers"..... 

Most people on this forum, at least those that stick around .....tend to lean toward self sufficiency and these requests are against my very nature as well as most others here.

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## Manwithnoname

> Is this place named Jonestown by any chance?
> 
> Are copious amounts of kool-aid on the supply list?


Dang it Rat, you stole my kool aid line, that sucks!

I'm no fan on what so much of society has become but I gave too many years of my life to this country to just tuck tail and run without a fight to try to fix it!! Not to mention, half my gene pool was here long before Columbus was a gleem in his daddies eye. I'm not going anywhere.

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## WalkingTree

When I think of South America or even Central, I think of things that infect your heart for life or swim up your whatchamacallit or get in your blood via little bugs that are all over the place...and can mess you up real bad...the types of things that I just don't hear as much about 'round these parts north of the equator. That place is just mean.

Why don't somebody come up with some scheme to colonize one those many uninhabited islands illegally that is all over the globe. Why's it always gotta be that place with all these nasty bugs and stuff.

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## Rick

> When I think of South America or even Central, I think of things that infect your heart for life or swim up your whatchamacallit or get in your blood via little bugs that are all over the place




Oh yeah, been there, done that. That's why God invented Cipro. You can be as diligent as you want but somewhere along the way you are going to look at what you are eating or drinking and go, oh, crap. And you will.

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## 1stimestar

> Yeah...Thanks.....
> When ever I see a thread....looking like a personal ad looking for "Like Minded People" to go a do....fill in blank...and alarm goes off.
> 
> As a early subscriber to Mother Earth News Magazine back in the 1970's and 80's...there was a lot of personnel ads in the classifieds in the magazine. 
> Before internet.
> 
> Was a warning going around at the time concerning some one that had answered one of these "Like Minded" ads.....and didn't end well.
> 
> At the moment I can't seem to find a reference....but left an impression on me back when.
> ...


Here, I found it for you.

http://www.history.com/topics/jonestown

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## hunter63

I am aware of that sad incident....with it's reference to "Drinking the Kool-Aid".....
But was looking for a solid reference for an incident closer to home.

Across the street for my mothers house in central Wisconsin, where I grew up....lived a guy I went to HS with...was a Sheriffs Detective.

He was working on a case back when.... where a couple had been murdered after answering an ad for "Help on a Self-sustaining Homestead"...who were lured in.....
Not sure exactly where it happened...but recall the story he was telling us,.. at his house. 

I'll keep looking.

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## kyratshooter

We had a deal like this going on in eastern OH a couple of years back.

A serial killer was luring homeless people in with the offer of work/room/board on a farm and then killing them and burying them in the woods.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/02/us...b-ad.html?_r=0

The real kicker is that this South American wonder from the heart of Belgium never returned for a second post.  Never defended or explained his plan to correct any misconceptions we might have had and his continued whining and demands behind the scenes only go further to reinforce his overbearing and narcissistic nature.  

He is apparently not used to being faced with opposition or criticism equaling what most 8th graders face daily in the lunch room.

Wonder how he would be face to face in the Argentinian bush when confronted over some foolish decision he had made arbitrarily that affected the individuals under what he considered "his rule".

Or better yet, how would he react to someone threatening to leave his "settlement" and reveal its location to the authorities.

If the attitude expressed in the OP prevail, and the ends justify the means, then one can only assume that killing the snitch would be rationalized, and then you can't let anyone leave for "reasons of security".

I can see no good end to this scenario.

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## Rick

I'll bet it all plays out well in his mom's basement.

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## hunter63

Just hit "Reset....Play again?"

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## kyratshooter

> I'll bet it all plays out well in his mom's basement.


I was thinking more along the lines of a pot smoke filled internet café in the poor section of Antwerp with Che Guevara, Mao, Red Brigade and green party posters on the walls. 

But it could be the same thing in Mom's basement in Springfield.  Every state has a Springfield, just pick one.

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## Rick

Yelling down the stairs. "Billy!!! Are you smoking again?!"
Cough, sputter, waving hand around. "No, mom. I told you I don't smoke."
"Take the trash out when you finish playing."
"I'm 23 mom. I don't play. I'm designing!"
"Of course you are dear. Don't forget the trash."
"What....ever."

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## WalkingTree

Hahaha, command center. It's a basement.

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## hunter63

Great movie......even had a CB....666...call sign.....

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## WalkingTree

I was surprised the last time I saw the first Die Hard recently - had assumed that it would seem dated, or seem cheesy or gimmicky in some way. But it was still pretty good. Qualifies as a movie that will still be good many years later.

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## ArgentinianThoreau

Webmaster where are you???????????????????????????????????????????????  ???????????????????????????

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## ArgentinianThoreau

Can you ask the Webmaster to delete this post?

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## cow_rancher

And... why?

*Rancher*

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## hunter63

Crash?....Rick?...Can you put the original post back up?

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## crashdive123

> Crash?....Rick?...Can you put the original post back up?


I did, and the poster has been banned.  Jeez - such language.  Nobody would have seen his idiotic, childish post if he left it alone.......but noooooooooo he had to come back and prove to the world that he was.......well.......idiotic and childish.

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## hunter63

> Ive been exploring the Patagonia region for three years now. Kayaking, hiking, you name it.
> 
> Theres plenty of uncharted and unsupervised land out there, that's no news. The problem with all of them is the same. Settling in protected areas is illegal. Not in the going-to-prison sense, but in the kick-you-out one. And in Argentina, it is very worth it to play with those odds. So you make your list of favourite spots based on this, and that's why I did. Sites close enough to civilization that bringing stuff in and out doesn't set off any alarms, and far enough that you won't ruin your cover by the smoke coming from your fireplace or the sound of your rooster. 
> 
> Heres the secret: The reason so many sites are uncharted and thus unprotected, is reaching them is almost imposible. Patagonia forests are convered by this invasive species called Chusquea culeou, making it harder to make three steps without finding yourself trapped between walls of bamboos. 
> 
> Being a third world country, rangers arent paid enough, nor there isnt enough of them to cover the huge protected area Argentina has, even less to make their way through this crowded vegetation that grows down south. 
> 
> Theres practically unlimited land to be gained over there. But in order to transform it, plenty of effort needs to be put into it. Getting rid of that bamboo and fallen trees requires massive ammount of work, I cant overstate this enough!
> ...


Yeah thanks, Crash....didn't want to lose this one......

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## crashdive123

Maybe we should make it a sticky?   :Innocent:

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## hunter63

I vote yes.....
Example of what NOT to do?

Actually if you Google  ArgentinianThoreau,....you get about 84 hit , same message....but although there are a few different blogs and prepper forums most all direct you right back to WSF
Odd

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## Rick

This guy is destined to live in the annals of...no, annals is about right.

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## kyratshooter

Now that is just not right Rick, telling a guy he has no annals!

BTW, how do you check to see if you have any annals?

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## hunter63

Try to reach back with both hands...... and see what you can grab?......

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## Rick

Oh, he has annals. He has to have someplace to keep his head.

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## WalkingTree

Yer makin me think of that picture. Yea, you know the one.

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## crashdive123

Yep.



Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## WalkingTree

That's the one.

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## kyratshooter

Hopefully he has a glass belly button so he can see where he's going.

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## Adventure Wolf

Wow, now I've heard it all. Ever hear of Jonestown?

You're also advocating breaking the law, and bribing officials. What is wrong with you?

Building a town in the Wilderness is a lot different then day hiking or even a week long camping trip. It's a lot different then a single guy living in a cabin in the woods. The expertise to get water, create your own electricity, plumbing, etc? What happens if someone gets hurt? What if someone gets sick? What if sickness spreads What is your plan for sanitation?

That's just the beginning of the list of problems.

Food production, safety from animals, supplies of tools and equipment, what are you going to build your settlement out of?

Remember how much trouble the colonists had settling the New World? You'll have the same problems even in modern day.

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## hunter63

You are giving the guy a lot more credit than he deserves.....

This post was spread all over the interweb.....and he actually only received some serious responses here.....
Most of the other posts and blog entries received "crickets"....

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## crashdive123

Thought I'd bump this thread.  Just feeling nostalgic tonight.

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## hunter63

I hear ya.....
Different forum(what?) just had a guy with a "free land in Alaska"......was thinking of the this thread.

Seems the blanket approach "hit as many locations as possible" is still popular.

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