# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > General Homesteading >  Bears

## Tootsiepop254

They make me very nervous.  I do not live in bear country, I have never seen one outside of the zoo.  I am considering moving to the mountains, where I'm sure I WILL see them.  Is there bear safe fencing to keep them away from the property?  What would be a good gun to go out with (I know a small caliber would just piss them off, and the goal would be to make them run AWAY)?  Thinking handgun and rifle.

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## Power Giant

I live in Grizzly and Black bear country. Around the house, I use a 12 gauge shotgun to repel black bears. I have never had to shoot one, just shoot in their general direction with bird shot. I have 000 buckshot and slugs staggered in the gun if things go sour. When hiking/backpacking I strong side carry a .454 Casull revolver. I feel that is the most powerful handgun cartridge that is still somewhat managable in the recoil department and the ammo is affordable. Personally, moose are far more unpredictable than bears and statisically more of a threat. Bears, though are attracted to human activity and therein lies the problem.

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## phreshayr

I live in Rural South Central Alaska in black and grizzly country.   My wife and I also spend a lot of time at our remote cabin here in South Central Alaska.   I carry a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs only.   Have had several bear encounters but luckily have not needed to fire at them yet after spending over 40 years of wandering around in Alaska.   I still usually go prepared though in case I ever need to shoot.

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## Rick

I can't even imagine pulling the trigger on a .454. My handgun with hand still attached would probably be several yards behind me. If the blamed thing didn't take my head off.

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## aktrekker

I remember an episode of Survivorman where he was headed into the mountains. He was talking to a bush pilot about the dangers. When he asked about bears, the pilot told him there were weekly encounters but they were basically a non-event. But when he asked about mountain lions, the pilot said that is what scares him.
A grizzly is more temperamental, and *if* it attacks, it will usually quit if it thinks you're dead. That's why authorities suggest you play dead with a grizzly.
A black bear is usually more easy going and pretty easy to scare off (they're used to running from grizzly's). But *if* they attack they are more likely to eat you. That is why authorities suggest you fight back against a black bear.
A mountain lion will only be a problem if it is stalking you. It considers you to be just another meal. Much more dangerous than a bear just because of its attitude. But it is unlikely you will ever see one. If one does attack, fight back as hard as you can.

When I was young my family went to picnic in a state park. There was nobody else around, only us. After we got up to leave and were walking back to the car, I turned around and saw a black bear at the picnic table looking at us. It was obviously looking for anything we had left behind. I stood there staring back at it (I didn't know any better). We were less than 20 yards apart with only sparse trees, mostly open space between us. My stepfather told me to come on to the car. I turned around and left. Nothing happened.
I think bear encounters are emphasized way too much. It is extremely rare that anyone is even attacked, let alone killed. It's just that they're so big and strong it scares people. But the only thing bears are interested in is food, and they don't see you as food. Usually.
Mountain lions may not be as big as a bear, but they are still very strong (all cats are). And needle sharp claws rip you to shreds very quickly and painfully (I've cut myself to the bone with a needle). And with hunting pressure being taken away they are getting bolder.

OK, are you completely paranoid yet? :Scared: 

Be careful and prepared, but don't worry about it. Make noise so you don't surprise them. Keep your camp clean. If you do see one it will probably be from a distance.

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## hunter63

Don't put bird feeders next to the house.......

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## Tootsiepop254

Thanks for the tips!  Power Giant - the handgun looks scarier than the bears! AKtrekker... I have grown up with in the Panoche hills... plenty of big cats there! I always have my dog to alert of dangers, and the pigs were more dangerous - but louder.

Those who live in bear country, how do you keep bears away from the home and gardens and places you really don't want them?

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## phreshayr

Bears are actively hunted here and so have a lot of respect for man.   They very rarely cause any problems where we live but it does happen though.  quite a few years ago now my wife, family and I were getting ready to go camping and I was in our old trailer getting it ready.    My wife had started out to the chicken coop to take care of the chickens.  She came back all out of breath and said there was a huge grizzly between the house and the coop on the trail.  I grabbed the shotgun which was right there handy in the trailer and went after the bear.   I found him.  He was about 50 yards from me.   My shotgun is a short barrel pistol grip 12 gauge only good for extreme close encounters.   I decided to go back to the house and get my 300 win mag.    I went back out but couldnt find the bear again.   A neighbor shot the bear later that evening.    another bear was in one of our neighbors house when they home.   they shot and wounded it and it ran off. nobody around ever seen that bear again so it probably died.   Anyway active hunting pressure keeps these encounters to a minimum.  A good dog can also be a big help.   Too often though, a bad dog will go out to a bear and irritate a bear until they go after the dog.   A bad dog will come running straight back to you for help with the bear right behind.    There are solar powered electric fences made for camp parimeters as bear deterents but dont know how effective they are

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## 1stimestar

Teach yourself some bear safety.  Watch these videos.  Keep food and garbage cleaned up from around your house.  Don't leave dogfood or compost outside.  Then just be aware.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...withbears.main

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## aktrekker

phreshayr also has some bear safety videos. But I think bears in Alaska behave a little differently than in the lower 48.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2rQ6fwmuMY

Tootsiepop, you don't live that far from several state parks. You know about the cats and the wild boar. I'm sure there are bears around, you just haven't seen them. And that's normal. Most people who first get into the outdoors are afraid of bears. After awhile you learn they normally won't bother you. In fact you will rarely see any of the animals you're afraid of.

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## hunter63

> ........................................  A good dog can also be a big help.   Too often though, a bad dog will go out to a bear and irritate a bear until they go after the dog.   A bad dog will come running straight back to you for help with the bear right behind.    There are solar powered electric fences made for camp parimeters as bear deterents but dont know how effective they are


Now that is most likely some thing no one would have never thought of......if they weren't there......Thanks for that kernel of wisdom.

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## Rick

I'd be getting rid of a dog. Having a cat that brings home a live mouse is pretty bad. Having a dog that brings home a live bear is unacceptable. At least in my book.

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## finallyME

where do you plan to go?  Sierra bears are a LOT different than bears anywhere else, even within the black bear species.
Alot of the bear advice people have given is great for where they live, but might not apply at all.

Here is Utah, it really depends on which mountains I go to.  Some mountain ranges don't have any bears.

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## Old GI

Hey, to avoid Bears, you guessed it, stay out of Chicag........  What's that hon?  Oh .... nevermind.

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## crashdive123

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## Seniorman

> " ...  I am considering moving to the mountains, where I'm sure I WILL see them. ...   Thinking handgun and rifle.


What mountains and where??  My wife and I owned a vacation cabin in the Sierra on the western slope for 31 years, at about 6,000'.  That was in Tulare County.  There were lots of Black bears up in the Sierra but we were never bothered.  Saw a few but no problems.  Some people did have problems, but we were lucky I suppose.

How skilled are you with a handgun?  Rifle??

If you're not a hunter, a .30-30 WCF in a Marlin 336 or Winchester 94, would be all you'd need as a "walking around" gun in the Sierra or Trinity Mountains, if you're worried about bears.  Also there's not a mountain lion out there that'll stand up to a .30-30 with a well placed bullet.

Handguns??  I often carried a S&W .41 Magnum or Ruger .45 Colt when my wife and I would go for a hike up there.  My wife carried a Ruger Security Six in .357 Magnum.   I wasn't worried about either caliber.  I will say that I have a pretty fair knowledge of handgun shooting as does my wife.

Practice with a rifle or handgun is very important.  If you're *not* skilled with either and don't have the time or finances to practice a great deal, you might be better off with a can of good bear spray, such as UDAP.

Just my thoughts on your question.

Good luck.

S.M.

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## Power Giant

> Don't put bird feeders next to the house.......


This is huge. Bears hibernate in winter, so its okay to have a feeder then. Don't leave garbage, dog food, cat food, etc. Bears have a very good sense of smell. Bears are hunted with hounds here, so they are shy of dogs. My pet Lab has chased several large bears out of the yard. Mountain Lions are completely unpredictable. I was stalked by one in central British Columbia and no firearm with me. It was the only time that I was really scared while in the woods.

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## Old Professor

Where I live along Lake Superior we have bears, wolves and Mountain lions. I generally carry a large caliber handgun when I am woods walking or tending to bait stations. Bears are generally going to avoid humans EXCEPT sows with cubs! The only time I have ever had cause for my safety was once when I was walking back through the woods from checking a lake and two bear cubs ran up a tree about 20 feet from me and I did not know where their mother was. I jumped on my trail bike and got out of there pronto. I am not particularly concerned about wolves but they are a pack animal and will defend a kill and there is always the possibility of encountering a rabid animal. I did have a wolf walk through my yard a couple of years ago.  Now mountain lions are just sneaky and will stalk people. Probably just out of curiosity but if I am out with my three grand daughters - they would look like prey to a big cat. We also have moose but I have never seen on in the woods. They are not common where I live and hunt.

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## swenlet

If they were a problem for me, I'd set some of the snares that Ragnar Benson describes how to make.  8-10" wide, thick walled steel tubing, with a hole thru one side at the top, for the cable to the drag-log.  drill holes into the tubing at about 30 degrees from the long axis. Weld long spikes into the holes, all around the tubing, up and down its  14" lenth. Bury it vertically, with the spikes pointing down. Put bacon grease at the bottom of the tubing. Have the top of the tubing flush with the ground-level.  Such a drag log should be at least  8" in OD, and at least 12 ft long. It leaves a trail that a blind man can follow, but at the end of that trail is one PO'D bear, so have a 308 or 06 autorifle when you follow up, be alert, have "earvalve" earplugs in place, and if charged at close range, aim for the brain, shoot fast and repeatedly.

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## hunter63

> If they were a problem for me, I'd set some of the snares that Ragnar Benson describes how to make.  8-10" wide, thick walled steel tubing, with a hole thru one side at the top, for the cable to the drag-log.  drill holes into the tubing at about 30 degrees from the long axis. Weld long spikes into the holes, all around the tubing, up and down its  14" lenth. Bury it vertically, with the spikes pointing down. Put bacon grease at the bottom of the tubing. Have the top of the tubing flush with the ground-level.  Such a drag log should be at least  8" in OD, and at least 12 ft long. It leaves a trail that a blind man can follow, but at the end of that trail is one PO'D bear, so have a 308 or 06 autorifle when you follow up, be alert, have "earvalve" earplugs in place, and if charged at close range, aim for the brain, shoot fast and repeatedly.


Seems like a lot of work to me.....and most likely illegal, unsafe for other people and animals.

I'll pass.......hunted all my life in WI, have only seen/smelled a few in the woods (black) and they were headed out away for me.
I've seen more in dumps and along the road.

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## Rick

It's all about shot placement.

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## swenlet

apparently you have no problem bears. You can make several in one day, grease them and bury them, against a day of need.  Much less work than needed to buy some ridiculous "bear pistol", like a 454 casull. Many times more likely to succeed, too, since each one works for you 24-7, and you can have as many of them as you want or need.  We are discussing the end of the world, and you're worried about laws? :-)  Legally, all you'd have to do is leave some big  meatballs with habenero pepper juice in the middle of them.  If you didn't want the bear's meat and hide, busted up glass in the meatballs would work just fine, and handle wolves, coyotes, feral dogs, etc at the same time.

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## hunter63

> They make me very nervous.  I do not live in bear country, I have never seen one outside of the zoo.  I am considering moving to the mountains, where I'm sure I WILL see them.  Is there bear safe fencing to keep them away from the property?  What would be a good gun to go out with (I know a small caliber would just piss them off, and the goal would be to make them run AWAY)?  Thinking handgun and rifle.





> apparently you have no problem bears. You can make several in one day, grease them and bury them, against a day of need.  Much less work than needed to buy some ridiculous "bear pistol", like a 454 casull. Many times more likely to succeed, too, since each one works for you 24-7, and you can have as many of them as you want or need.  We are discussing the end of the world, and you're worried about laws? :-)  Legally, all you'd have to do is leave some big  meatballs with habenero pepper juice in the middle of them.  If you didn't want the bear's meat and hide, busted up glass in the meatballs would work just fine, and handle wolves, coyotes, feral dogs, etc at the same time.


Hummm didn't happen to see anything about the end of the world in the OP.....so yeah, Laws and such.

I do not share your opinion....

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## swenlet

So?  Nobody who disagrees with you is ever correct?  :-) Plenty of people read this type of forum with more in mind than just local/now/legal in mind, you know.

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## Batch

5 bears were rummaging through trash when a lady went to her garage. She was attacked. All 5 bears have been killed. Maybe...

http://www.wesh.com/news/seminole-co...5455410#!Ef5Ub

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## crashdive123

> So?  Nobody who disagrees with you is ever correct?  :-) Plenty of people read this type of forum with more in mind than just local/now/legal in mind, you know.


It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing (happens all the time).    While disaster planning and prepping are certainly a big part of what this forum is about, mythical end of the world scenarios where everybody on the planet is forced to forage and scavenge for food is not.

Sure, there are situations where that may occur, but it is always on a limited basis and in a very confined area.

For most, the emphasis is on having the skills, equipment and knowledge to avoid survival situations.  Not every question on here is based on the plot of a B movie.

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## 1stimestar

Sorry Crash, tried to rep ya.

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## Solar Geek

What Crash said.

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## Rick

And I would also point out that as a forum we do not support violating any laws in any country.

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## knife nut

What Rick said!!

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## hunter63

> So?  Nobody who disagrees with you is ever correct?  :-) Plenty of people read this type of forum with more in mind than just local/now/legal in mind, you know.


Pretty touchy for just disagreeing with you.
Anyway too bad.....new people bring new ideas, good or bad.....

I just happen to think yours were bad.... DW won't let you have a silly .454 casull?....

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## Old Professor

My neighbor was watching one of those Alaskan programs on TV this week, during which there was sequence involving a LEO checking an individual who was carrying a Taurus Judge, loaded with both 45 colt and ,410 slugs. According to what my neighbor told me, the LEO commented to the man carrying the handgun that  45 Colt cartridges were not adequate for bear protection but that .410 slugs were!  I thoroughly disagree with that statement!  With APPROPRIATE loads, like the Buffalo bore hard cast LWNGC, the 45 Colt ranks right up there with the 44 mag. .410 slugs are very anemic at best and are more likely to annoy a bear than be an  effective bear stopper!  This just confirms what I have experienced when I was in law enforcement,  that most LEO's do not know jack s**t about firearms and ballistics.

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## hunter63

That .410 slugs have pretty much always illegal for deer hunting, for that reason, yet .45 lc is.

The Judge doesn't do anything well, in my opinion., but seem to be popular?

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## Power Giant

> That .410 slugs have pretty much always illegal for deer hunting, for that reason, yet .45 lc is.
> 
> The Judge doesn't do anything well, in my opinion., but seem to be popular?


Another reason to go with the 454 Casull- it uses 45 LC as well. Just keep the cylinders clean, because the 454 is a little longer than the 45 LC.

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## Chassit

Here in Colorado we have some black bears and mountain lions.  No grizzlies though.  I used to carry a 357 with me in the woods for both the bears and lions.  I would agree with the previous poster that stated that the lions are the real threat, they will stalk you.  Every bear I have seen has been either across a river or just a big black butt lumbering off into the distance.  Cougars on the other hand, they don't see to fear you.  I now keep bear spray with me while hunting (or otherwise bumbling about in the hills) due to some issues that have come up in my personal life.   I am a bow hunter and I just don't have confidence in my ability to drop an angry bear with an arrow in a time of crisis and if it weren't for things going on I would still carry that revolver any time I went into the woods.

As an aside, if I were in Alaska or other Grizzly territory like a lot of the folks here, I would recommend something even larger than the 357 (like the 454 everyone is talking about).  Anyways just my 2 cents as someone who has encountered bears and lions in the wild (never attacked or even threatened though, although once I think I was being stalked by a lion; never saw it but occasionally heard and smelled it, scary stuff).

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## Seniorman

It seems foolish to me that quite often the standard reply to the question of "What handgun to carry for protection against bears?" is "Get a .454 Casull 'cause that's the only handgun that'll stop a bear."

The problem with that is the respondents rarely ever address the most important aspect of carrying a handgun for protection, regarding charging bears.  The most important thing about any handgun is to practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more.

Very, very few people -- especially those fairly new to handguns -- are ever going to practice enough with a .454 Casull.  The recoil is wrist wreckingly fierce, somewhat as they say, "Hell, death, and destruction on both ends!"

It is also very expensive, unless one reloads.  Of course, by reloading one can load rounds which are less violent in recoil, but one can do the same with a .45 Colt or .44 Magnum.

Most people who buy a .454 Casull, or even the .45 Colt or .44 Magnum will not practice enough to be accurate and effective in a real down-'n-dirty bear attack.  Yet that "big iron" on the hip gives a false sense of security... until it's really needed.

In no way, shape, or form, am I suggesting people who are worried about bears should not carry a heavy caliber handgun for protection.  What I am suggesting is if a person is going to carry that "big iron," he had better practice with it much more than just a few rounds and assume "expertise."  Ain't a'gonna happen.    :Nono: 

S.M.

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## 1stimestar

> It seems foolish to me that quite often the standard reply to the question of "What handgun to carry for protection against bears?" is "Get a .454 Casull 'cause that's the only handgun that'll stop a bear."
> 
> The problem with that is the respondents rarely ever address the most important aspect of carrying a handgun for protection, regarding charging bears.  The most important thing about any handgun is to practice, practice, practice, and then practice some more.
> 
> Very, very few people -- especially those fairly new to handguns -- are ever going to practice enough with a .454 Casull.  The recoil is wrist wreckingly fierce, somewhat as they say, "Hell, death, and destruction on both ends!"
> 
> It is also very expensive, unless one reloads.  Of course, by reloading one can load rounds which are less violent in recoil, but one can do the same with a .45 Colt or .44 Magnum.
> 
> Most people who buy a .454 Casull, or even the .45 Colt or .44 Magnum will not practice enough to be accurate and effective in a real down-'n-dirty bear attack.  Yet that "big iron" on the hip gives a false sense of security... until it's really needed.
> ...


That's a very good point SM.  I can fire my .357 all day and not have a sore wrist.  So no, it MAY not stop a bear (which are very much a reality in my world), it's better then nothing.  Then again, it might.  Been here 10 years and haven't had to try it out and hopefully never will.  If I am ever in a situation where it comes down to me or the bear, I consider that a failure on my part.  I also carry bear spray most of the time while I'm "out there".

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## Power Giant

A person can practice with the 45 lc rounds in the 454 revolver, then when in the bush, load it with the 454 rounds. You can't deny the ballistics of the 454 and its about $25 for a box of twenty 300 grain. I don't consider that extravagant at all.

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## Seniorman

> A person can practice with the 45 lc rounds in the 454 revolver, then when in the bush, load it with the 454 rounds. You can't deny the ballistics of the 454 and its about $25 for a box of twenty 300 grain. I don't consider that extravagant at all.


Whatever floats your boat.

S.M.

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## Rick

A former member said he does jumping jacks prior to firing at the range. Although it may look strange it gives you the fatigue and hand shake similar to what you'll encounter if the situation were real. Hard to simulate the adrenalin flow but you aren't going to have a nice seat and sand bags when the time comes that's for sure. Good points, Seniorman. A little rep to you.

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## Power Giant

I'm not trying to stir up things here, just trying to relate pertinent and proven information. Here, in North Idaho, we still hunt bears and mountain lions with hounds-legally. For bears a 444 carbine is used with a 454 backup. This is what we have found works. Rick is correct in that the most important thing is to keep a cool head when under pressure. Some folks can, some folks can't. Some folks are afraid of recoil- this will affect a person's aim, and trigger control. Like has been already said in this thread: practice.

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## hunter63

Well, they make a lot of different calibers, for a lot of different people, for a lot of different reasons .....and this discussion could go on forever.
I don't own a .454, don't what one.....but most like likely it is the best choice....just not my choice.

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