# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > General Homesteading >  Wall tent life??  Experiences? Advice? Tips, Tricks?   Cook/camp stove help?

## TresMon

So it looks like I found me a killer deal on a used Military GP "small" canvas tent. (18' hex shape, 5'8" at the eve, 10' at peak, two zip doors.) 
GP small.jpg

I have been offered to camp on a small piece of land. The place I have in mind to make a permanent camp on is a teeny 2 acre privately owned parcel within the Cherokee National forest. An old couple I know lived there from the early seventies up until just a few years ago. They both were having medical conditions at random and decided they needed to move into an apartment in the nearest town so they would be closer to Emergency medical care. They have offered for me to stay on the property at no cost just to keep an eye on it. A dream of an offer!! Bear, deer, critters in the mountains- right on a trout stream- a dream of an offer! 

I have been looking and pray'n about getting a wall tent. My initial thought was a teepee but I hear unless your standing in the VERY center, you got a crick in your neck if not a hunched back. So I jumped to wall tents. And then decided on one with a stove jack as using a woods stove in the tent would solve the heat, cooking & hot water problem with high efficiency (compared to camp fire.) And then I decided on a Military tent so it would blend in instead of a bright white typical one.

Since I will likely be living in the thing- (and it will have no door locks, security system etc) I don't want my place to stick out like sore thumb. On top of that It will be in a secluded place. If the thieves show up when I'm away the could whistle dixie while eat'n crackers as they nonchalantly loaded up my every possession...

Many prayers were answered! I don't have too much extra money and could not afford the typical $600+++ for these tents.  I found one in good shape ready to go for $300! :W00t: 
But it's on the other side of the country. Can't afford the tent and the shipping. :Crash: 
More prayers.  Then a pilot firend of mine calls me up and says "I bought an airplane engine in OK city. Care to help me with the driving to pick it up- I'll cover your travel costs if you just help me with the driving? Guess where the tent is!!??   :Punk:  
Coincidence? NOT!!!!

So this weekend likely I will be headed to get my tent.  In the near future I will have it set up mostly permanent in the National Forest. This is all the culmination of a goal I have had to get in a position to live in the wilderness for a very long period of time and live a primitive skills way of life.

I'm sure there are folks on here that have some experience with wall tents- I have none. Please chime in with any thing you have to offer.
For the record I'm getting the tent, "arctic liner", floor (vinyl??) and all the poles etc.  It has a 4" stove jack.   On that note...

I need a camp/cook stove. I have operated many wood stoves, but never had one of my own.  I don't know about their hassles and headaches of getting them set up and running right. Nor about selection.    I do need it to have a flat/level top to cook on and heat water on, etc. I DON"T have much money at all.  The tent is essentially an 18" dia hex shape, size wise.  I like the look of this unit and *assume* it would fit the bill well, but those with experience please chime in. http://www.harborfreight.com/cast-ir...ove-32058.html  I would have to find it used to afford it. Or maybe it's not the right choice at all?  I'm not looking to be able to make the tent super toasty in winter Just looking to make a good difference between inside and outside air temp.

Any advice you can offer with tent living, stoves preliminary info of what to expect in (re)homesteading a place (the property, garden plot, etc. has been abandoned and has gone 60% back to the wilds) etc would be really appreciated.  

Thanks so much everyone,

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## Rick

I have no experience. I just wanted to say that I'm glad it worked out for you. Sometimes things are just meant to be.

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## Sarge47

Okay, the 1st thing to remember is that tents are not meant to be permanent structures.  The floor fabric will rot if left in contact with the ground for any lengthy period of time.  Can you get permission to build a small, one room, cabin?  Then you can use the tent until you get the cabin built, and then take the tent down to be used in the future.  I totally destroyed a cabin tent some years back when I had to live in one for the summer.  At one point a small ground squirrel ate it's way through the floor.  

Anyway, I wish you all the best in your endeavors; amazing how things work out, isn't it?   :Cool2:

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## southard

sportsmans guide warehouse has a wood stove with chimney pipe for $79. It has a flat split rack on top for cooking that open up and double as a sock/glove drier warmer and carrying handle. sorry no link Im posting with my phone.

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## TresMon

> I have no experience. I just wanted to say that I'm glad it worked out for you. Sometimes things are just meant to be.


Rick, hurry! you neglected to say anything other than _nice_ stuff. Edit it quick man before some one else see this. It's on the WWW for cry'n out loud! You'll get made!





> Okay, the 1st thing to remember is that tents are not meant to be permanent structures.  The floor fabric will rot if left in contact with the ground for any lengthy period of time.  Can you get permission to build a small, one room, cabin?  Then you can use the tent until you get the cabin built, and then take the tent down to be used in the future.  I totally destroyed a cabin tent some years back when I had to live in one for the summer.  At one point a small ground squirrel ate it's way through the floor.  Anyway, I wish you all the best in your endeavors; amazing how things work out, isn't it?


Well as far as I know for now, No I can't make a solid structure. Plus no $ for build materials and don't have a mill in my back pocket. So the floor is *not* made into the tent. Should I just go the dirt floor option? Cosmeticaly & function wise I'd be ok with that, assuming that in short order the dirt IN the tent would dry out and not make mold/moisture issues. ?  As a redneck option I might be able to put the tent ontop of an array of wood pallets...?

Thanks so much for the kind words guys.

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## lucznik

A wall tent is definitely not intended to be used as a permanent structure.  Left set up it definitely will, eventually, rot - though perhaps not as quickly as one might fear.  In their book "The Indian Tipi" by Reginald and Gladys Laubin the authors describe how heavy canvas tipis that they have used in all seasons and sometimes for months on end, but not in the way you describe as full-time, permanent living quarters, have lasted between 6 and ten years.  I would expect that you would get somewhat less service from a quality wall tent used as a permanent home.  Your used military tent has already had some of its useful life expended but, as long as the canvas is in good shape, you should be good to go for quite some time - perhaps as longs as 3-5 years.

If you can at least make a wood platform to set it upon, you will have done some real good, both in terms of preventing rot and also in avoiding the pitfalls of having a mud floor. Also if you can find a way to keep it sheltered from the harmful effects of the sun (placing it in a copse of trees to shade it or whatever) you will again see much benefit.  Finally, if you can put your wall tent on a frame (I prefer internals though externals work fine too), it will withstand the buffeting of storms much better and longer than if you don't.

A good wood stove properly utilized can run you right out of the tent.  You should be able to enjoy comfortable temps even when its well below freezing outside.

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## Sarge47

I used one just like this in Colorado to heat a 10' X 50" mobile home:

http://store.colemans.com/cart/milit...ed-p-1310.html  :Detective:

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## TresMon

Thanks for the info fellas. I really appreciate it.

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## hunter63

Congrats on the find......
If you are gonna live in it I would built a floor to put it on and use a plastic ground sheet.

Those box stoves are OK, not real tight and will burn alot of wood.....buy the best stove you can afford, what you save in price you will spend in wood...even if the wood is free, still need processing, saws, mauls, splitters etc.

I'm thinking that because you will have only 2 acres a constant wood supply will be difficult.

Also living in a tent opens up vermin problems, storage will have to be in something vermin proof at least if you will be there a while.

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## kyratshooter

The military tent is made to be used in conjunction with a wooden floor.  Even if all you can do is find a bunch of pallets and cover them with particle board it will work for a while.  

Although it is our concept that tents are not permenant structures tell that to the thousands of GIs that have lived in tents for years at a time during every conflect in our memory.  Even in Iraq the squad shelters were these same squad tents with sandbags around the outside and panneling partitions inside.  I have pics of my boys tent city.  They lived there for 8 months and it had already been up for a while and sheltered more Marines when they pulled out.

I worked on a wilderness program as a teacher and we had campsites where the commercial canvas tents had been in use for 3-5 years.  They were on elivated platforms.  That was in middle TN and the temps were about the same as your area.  You are going to freeze!  

Two acres will not supply you with wood for the winter if you cut every tree in sight.  Plan to buy wood by the truck load or use kero.

You also have a zoning issue to deal with.  In TN you can not live in a tent/camper/RV as a permenant dwelling.  I think 180 days a year is their limit.

It is also illigal to build an outhouse anywhere in TN so you have that issue to deal with.  

Expect to be visited by the local law as soon as you are spotted.  Many meth cookers are doing exactly what you are.

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## Rick

KY - Lot's of good advice there. Nice post. 

Tresmon - I say nice things occasionally but I'm usually being facetious. Oops. I guess I just clobbered my good words to KY.

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## southard

Couple of questions Tres. First are you planning on working during the day or staying round camp all the time? if working that'll cut down wood usage, so will banking the fire at night and heaping blankets. Ok I only had one but another heat conserver would be partitioning the tent off smaller area= less work to heat.

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## TresMon

Thanks.

Per the "two acres" thats the _privately_ owned parcel I'll be on that is _surrounded by_ a 640,000 acres national forest. I'll have more fire wood than I can burn in a lifetime. At least there locally if it is "dead, down & detached" you can claim it for farwood out of the forest.

Per zoning issues- the place is wild and undeveloped and just "forest."  No fancy hiking trails or pretty water falls to cause outdoor folk traffic. True the trout stream get a little fishing traffic but just locals. I'm pretty sure that with the local "good-ol boy" system I'll get no pressure from being there long term or from having a slit-trench latrine.

If I do and or they were to pose the 180 day rule I'd not be sore about moving on. About 35 minutes away from this location I have a buddy with a 800 acre farm, bordered on two sides by one of the best small mouth streams in the US... and it has BIG deer and tons of turkey on it, plus all the typical critters.

Hunter, Thanks for the good info on the little box stoves!


Thanks again guys. I really appreciate the info and you celebrating this with me.

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## hunter63

Might want to add a "kitchen fly" or "porch" make it a whole lot more livable room.

Yeah, I know this one is white.......
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Out in a Colorado Elk camp ,up on Grand Mesa we camped in a GP Medium, had a couple of the Army pot belly oil stoves.....just kinda keep the frost out....LOL.

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## TresMon

Wow, NICE Hunter!  Good idea.  Thanks bud!

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## LowKey

You might also think about a rain fly. A tarp over the top of your tent to further protect it from the elements, maybe make it last longer. You can get tarps in more camouflage colors than Army green too.

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## TresMon

> You might also think about a rain fly. A tarp over the top of your tent to further protect it from the elements, maybe make it last longer. You can get tarps in more camouflage colors than Army green too.


see See SEE MOM!     >THIS<   is why I pay for internet. Wow.   Great idea LowKey.

Thanks again everyone and keep 'em coming.  I'm learning lots- fast.

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## Sarge47

Let's see:

Wood floor?  Check!

Inside frame?  Check!

Extra fly for outside of tent?   Check!

Wood burning tent stove?  Check!

Case of Twinkies in case Rick stops by?   ......!     :Whistling:

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## hunter63

BTW truck stops have showers and laundries...sometimes.
Some small city parks do as well.....and a water source.

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## Rick

Should I mention dig a trench around the base edge to channel rain water away?

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## TresMon

> BTW truck stops have showers and laundries...sometimes.
> Some small city parks do as well.....and a water source.


I figured I'd plumb a hose, out of a 5 gal bucket to a garden sprayer for a shower set up. That's what they use at the Tom Brown Tracker sku. 5 gallions is a long shower!



> Should I mention dig a trench around the base edge to channel rain water away?


No! Sheesh you should come dig it, it's called "house warming gift"hello.

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## aflineman

Be aware of fire dangers. These tents can go up VERY fast. Granted the ones we had burn were set-up in the desert for 2 years, so were very dried out. One was consumed in less than 30 seconds. This was a Temper Tent, and a bit bigger than a GP Medium.

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## woodsman86

As for wood stoves, I have a barrel type for my tent (not a kit). I took a sheet of steel and welded two 4" pieces of pipe to the sides (just wide enough for the sheet steel to touch the top of the stove when set down). You can cut a hole to slip over the chimney area or just a semi-circle to help hold it level on the stove. It works wonderful as a cook-top for my cast iron skillet or dutch oven. There are kits available to build your own stove from 55gal drum with bolt-on flanges. 

I would not use any of the old military stoves, they have been known for burning plenty of tents to the ground. I have never experience such a problem, but have heard enough stories to keep me away from them. The military tent itself should do you well if you take care of it. I have seen some military tents take a beating, but they have always been set up on a platform. I think one of your best investment could be made in building a platform.

If you have not already, read the Army Field Manual 21-10 on Field Hygiene and Sanitation. It has a lot of great information that may help you living out there without facilities. 

Good Luck with it all.

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## Rick

You can download it here: 

http://www.stevespages.com/page7c.htm

Just do a browser search for 21-10 and it will take you right to it.

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## birdman6660

got the link for the surplus site  Thanks ... it has lotsa goodies I cant seem to find in Canada  !

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## TresMon

Thanks for the info guys. I will check the FM. Thanks for the link hong.

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## Sarge47

> Thanks for the info guys. I will check the FM. Thanks for the link hong.


The FM is also reproduced here on the WSF home page if anybody's interested.     :Cool2:

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## intothenew

Along the lines of the kitchen canopy, you can get a vestibule to add on either or both ends. They are a bit small but do help with some extra unheated space, a place to keep the keg. :-)
It will also wind break that zipper door. The vestibules have a rectangular opening that lends well to a fabricated hinged door.

I used one hunting/fishing for nearly twenty years, but that would have only been 12-16 weeks per year and only set up for two weeks at a time. I'll try to dig up some old photos this weekend.

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## woodsman86

Great link Rick! Thanks for sharing.

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## TresMon

> Along the lines of the kitchen canopy, you can get a vestibule to add on either or both ends. They are a bit small but do help with some extra unheated space, a place to keep the keg. :-)
> It will also wind break that zipper door. The vestibules have a rectangular opening that lends well to a fabricated hinged door.
> 
> I used one hunting/fishing for nearly twenty years, but that would have only been 12-16 weeks per year and only set up for two weeks at a time. I'll try to dig up some old photos this weekend.


Thanks!  Last night I was reading the FM for these tents and saw the vestibule in the line drawings within the FM. I'll have to look into that.

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## Old GI

In my limited experience, the GP Smalls were used as small unit CPs and for brass living quarters.  I used what was called a GP Tiny (pup tent) in my early years and went to GP Tinier (poncho hooch) in later years.  Also, we're preparing for the alpaca arrivals next spring and found tents in Northern Tools for around $300 that may last longer than the old canvas that we will use for hay storage and possibly loafing/feeding sheds.

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## Rick

How did you manage to fit in a GP Tiny? Yeah, I know, carefully. Didn't you look like a hotdog hanging out both ends of the bun?

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## Old GI

That was when I was a lean, mean .... oh nevermind.





> How did you manage to fit in a GP Tiny? Yeah, I know, carefully. Didn't you look like a hotdog hanging out both ends of the bun?

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## Mischief

Do you plan to store  food and cook in the tent?
Do you know how to repair animal damage to a tent?
Where are you going to dispose trash?

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## TresMon

Store & cook food:
I plan on living, or at least doing things pretty primitive. Food will be a non refrigerated diet. Dried/ dehydrated foods- Jerked/ smoked meat, small garden plot... etc.
Storage will be 5 gallon buckets with tight lids. If they prove to not be critter proof enough I will go to ammo cans.

They guy I am getting the tent from is gonna teach me to make repairs...  but basically no is the answer right now.

Trash- Well I don't expect too much of that. But I will still be working paying gigs, going to see my ma, friends etc. I can take the trash off.  Also, not that I'd ever dare push my garbage off on the Park service but there are a bunch of those bear proof garbage bins a few miles up the road fro the property.

Thanks. I'm listening...

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## hunter63

OK, I just gonna throw this out ther......I realize you are liking the tent idea.....but have you considered a small travel trailer?

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## Sparky93

Were you thinking of something like this Hunter?

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## Rick

The price is probably right on that one. Please tell me that's not a ball hitch on the back.

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## hunter63

LOL, now that is a Dandy.....A +++ for effort and creativity.
All I'm saying that for pretty cheap, you can have hard side "tent", portable, and solve a lot of "tent' type problems........

My old Shasta is still being lived in....after I gave it to a guy that was living in a straw stack yurt.

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## Sparky93

Or maybe convert an old school bus, you can find them pretty cheap and they make pretty cool hunting camps. I think I saw one a while back for like $400....

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## hunter63

> Or maybe convert an old school bus, you can find them pretty cheap and they make pretty cool hunting camps. I think I saw one a while back for like $400....


You have driven by the guy I'm talking about......he was living in a bus till the big floods wash right thru it.....Then moved to the yurt (sorta), then I gave him the trailer.


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This was kinda funny with the for sale sign out front....."Survival shelter for sale, needs a little TLC"

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This was at "The Place' where we used it as a hunting/recreation camp for a lot of years......Original cost was $400 in 1992

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## intothenew

I always got raised eyebrows. Not mine, but I always called it the Sibley. The friend that owns it has never understood why. I know this thing has made 40 trips around the sun, and it was bought surplus before that. Easy to heat, but F.A.R.T. when farts were cool. lol Never had a wood burner, just propane or coleman fuel. I spent all of my initial highland buck hunting out of it. I'll get to the other "walls" shortly. I had a big post to crash, I'm on the road, so I'm posting in segments.

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## Rick

Ha!! When I was a kid my buddy's dad had one of those. I don't know if he snagged it from WWII (he served in the Pacific) or where he got it but it was set up in his back yard. Man, the good times we had playin' in that thing. Thanks for the memories. Those came back like a flood. Sadly, my friend is now gone but he lives on in my memory.

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## intothenew

Small was the big time. With a swingin' door, liner extended to the floor, and two vestibules, we were in heaven. Please forgive the sags, there is not a flat piece of ground in WV.

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## Sparky93

That one is pretty cool!

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## intothenew

Movin' on up as they say.

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Tie two together. The front is kitchen/den/dining. The rear is sleeping/meditation/farts. Gas heat in the rear, wood heat in the front. As`I said, We extended the liners to the floor. We set my wife and her machine inside and rotated the liner around her. That made one heck of a difference in fuel consumption.

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## Rick

Holly Cow! You had a room for us? We didn't even know about it or we'd have been right over. Did you have beer and bacon? If you had beer and bacon most of the F.A.R.T.s will be upset to know they didn't get invited over. You might want to keep that to yourself.

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## intothenew

> Holly Cow!


And we've only made it to about 1985.

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## intothenew

Is the Taj Mahal. The picture doesn't do it justice, but stage center with the smoke stack. Stage right is of course a small, stage left is the infamouus "box".

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## crashdive123

Hehehe.....you said gas heater in the rear.  Well duh!!!!

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## intothenew

As I have said, I'm out of town and the wife is scanning photos for me. I'll stop here for a few for two reasons:

1. I'm out of pics

2. I need to address TresMons initial questions.


Hunter brings up a very good point, and if you want me to, I can venture down that path. (Hard Sides)

To the initial question:

It's gonna take a lotta wood. Two acres ain't gonna do it, dead/dying/diseased for walking distance ain't gonna do it. Gas is too many Georges. That's with the tent on the ground, flaps ballasted, liner to the ground, and leave litter thrown to the outside for insul. These things are temp. Now I'm talking November in the WV highlands, 20s F of the night, rarely but 0 F sometimes. You can stay comfortable, but IT TAKES A LOTTA WOOD. Barrel stove, one of the small ones, 30 gal? Weld a flat plate on top to cook off of. 

The biggest maintenance problem is with the base flaps, either rot or ice. Rot if you let them lay too long. Ice is a problem if you bug out with them froze.

I've never stayed in one with an elevated platform, but can't imagine how you would seal the floor draft. But on bare ground, it does dry within 48 hours if you ventilate and heat it. 

UV I only know second hand, I watched one dry rot over the period of three years in direct sunlight (no forest canopy or maintenance).

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## TresMon

Great stuff thanks! Nice pics! Thanks to everyone who has contributed here. I left TN yesterday morning with a friend. We drove round the clock to end up In albuquerque at daylight today. I get to pick my tent up in Oklahoma city! Excited. (still feeling rough, thanks for prayin)

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## Lobo Lone Wolf

I have lived in Army tents year around for 6 years and loved it. This is what I have learned that may help.

I always put a fly tarp over the top that protects the tent and sends the rain and snow away from the sides and I collect the rain water for bathing, laundry, garden watering and animals watering. I have a tarp as a groundcloth  and used to have wall to wall carpeting from scrap pieces scattered about. This year that proved to be a bad idea as we had record breaking rain and the ground is saturated and thus the rugs rotted. Phew! What a stench. I now use little throw rugs like where my feet land in the morning when getting out of bed.

My first tent was a 17 ft diameter like a yurt. The base rotted when we had 3 hurricanes go through and I had knee deep water inside.

I then got a 17 by 32 ft rubberized army tent with liner and screens. I put sheets of styrofoam insulation around the bottom in the winter and when I woke up on -20 degree mornings I had 40 plus degrees inside from  my all niter wood stove. This was after the fire had burned down all nite.

As to the stove and heat. I had one barrell stove that came with the big tent that went thru a modified metal roofing hole in the roof of the tent. The all niter I stuck the stove pipe out the back door where I built a concrete block no concrete chimney. I cooked on the overniter and baked with a dutch oven on top.

I then added a 10 by 20 canopy to the front for a summer kitchen. During the winter I hung tarps around this to help keep the wind out and saved heat.

I camoflaged all this so well that my cousin (who let me use his land) could not find me till he smelled the woodstove smoke.

My only negative to this setup has been it takes 8 strong people to set it up and take it down. I have not been able to get that many together at the same time to accomplish this so I have gone back to the smaller one this winter. I would love to find a 'strong' roommate with woods knowledge to help with things like that. 

I hope this helps and I hope to make new friends here.

Lobo Lone Wolf

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## Rick

You said elsewhere you do this with no income. Curious how you swing purchasing all that gear.

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## Lobo Lone Wolf

> You said elsewhere you do this with no income. Curious how you swing purchasing all that gear.


Should be with little to no income. I do odd jobs and barter. The larger tent was paid for by family members who wanted to help when I got flooded out. I have no land rent as I too do the caretaker stint.

Lobo

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## Rick

Thank you. Not trying to pry just understand.

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## hunter63

> Is the Taj Mahal. The picture doesn't do it justice, but stage center with the smoke stack. Stage right is of course a small, stage left is the infamouus "box".
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Actually that looks like our GP medium we used in Colorado.....Hooter was about 100 yds away, though.
Always packed a woven rug and small tarp to "make a room", (seal up the floor drafts), for the ground/floor.

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## intothenew

> .....Hooter was about 100 yds away..........



That is not a Hooter, it's a heated shower. Vented box/stool to put a lantern in for heat, hang 3 gal of hot water with a sprinkler head. It works really nice.

Rugs have always been reserved as personal, at your bunk. Dunno how you could carry enough textile to seal the bottom of one of them, we just use leaf litter.

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## Winnie

There is a wealth of knowledge to be obtained about tent living from Re-enactment groups. Those guys walk the walk and there is bound to be a group near you. Go have a chat with them and maybe ask one of them to have a look at what you intend to do. I'm sure they will help.

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## hunter63

> That is not a Hooter, it's a heated shower. Vented box/stool to put a lantern in for heat, hang 3 gal of hot water with a sprinkler head. It works really nice.
> 
> Rugs have always been reserved as personal, at your bunk. Dunno how you could carry enough textile to seal the bottom of one of them, we just use leaf litter.


Gotcha.....
The GP medium was set up, no floor,..... so at my bunk, was a tarp for MY floor, with the sides turned up and attached to a few "rubber maid action packers" around the sides as a wind block and nite stands.

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## shiftyer1

If you have an option to choose between tent and a camper or bus,  i'd choose the vehicles.  I lived in a tent for six months and it wasn't a wonderful experience.  It wasn't a big canvas tent just an average 4 person dome tent.  I lived in a 23 foot camper for 3 years semi comfortably with 2 kids :Smile:

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## jake abraham

I lived in bus in the winter & a tent in the summer for three years perfer the metal walls

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## TresMon

> OK, I just gonna throw this out ther......I realize you are liking the tent idea.....but have you considered a small travel trailer?


Well kinda getting into my personal life, don't tell anyone else:
The plan was to get a highly fuel efficient "van" as in a step van- a "potato chip" truck etc. that I could convert into a camper. Some of them, such as with the cummins 4 cyl Turbo diesel engine (4bt)  get incredible mileage for such a vehicle.  SO why this instead of a camper?  Well campers are made for a blend of luxury and space savings. I wanted an empty shell I could turn into a camper with emphasis on SPACE.  How many campers/RV's can you get a gun safe in? See?

Well after saving the money for the rig proved to be a one step forward and two back affair I decided I would either have to continue to allow the wild in me to die an ever quickening slow death in the city, or lower my standards. Enter WALL TENT... I had the money, now I got my tent. It's in really good shape! So I live in it for 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years. I will have "done it" instead of wondered about and desired it. A bargain says me for 3 bills. Thanks everyone!

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## hunter63

> Well kinda getting into my personal life, don't tell anyone else:
> The plan was to get a highly fuel efficient "van" as in a step van- a "potato chip" truck etc. that I could convert into a camper. Some of them, such as with the cummins 4 cyl Turbo diesel engine (4bt)  get incredible mileage for such a vehicle.  SO why this instead of a camper?  Well campers are made for a blend of luxury and space savings. I wanted an empty shell I could turn into a camper with emphasis on SPACE.  How many campers/RV's can you get a gun safe in? See?
> 
> Well after saving the money for the rig proved to be a one step forward and two back affair I decided I would either have to continue to allow the wild in me to die an ever quickening slow death in the city, or lower my standards. Enter WALL TENT... I had the money, now I got my tent. It's in really good shape! So I live in it for 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years. I will have "done it" instead of wondered about and desired it. A bargain says me for 3 bills. Thanks everyone!


That's cool, very cool, as a matter of fact..... never know till you try it, follow that hankerin'......Good Luck to you.

Just a small side note, about the yurt, bus and camper Dude, I posted earlier.

This guy has been living like this for years in one thing or another, by himself.

One winter (cold mid-winter) he hadn't been around much, often see the guy with his bicycle or donkey cart.....so people started worrying about him.
Checked up and he was nowhere to be found.

Month later he showed back up, and when asked what happened, he just said, "yeah, well got pretty cold, so I went to the Bahamas, for the winter."

Turns out that he doesn't HAVE to live like that, just chooses to.

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## TresMon

> Month later he showed back up, and when asked what happened, he just said, "yeah, well got pretty cold, so I went to the Bahamas, for the winter."
> 
> Turns out that he doesn't HAVE to live like that, just chooses to.


Exactly! I mean just absolutely exactly. I might be wrong but I swear that's where I think I'm at.

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## kyratshooter

TM, not to nitpick but i can not wrap my brain around your thought process.

You can't get a gunsafe into an RV so you choose the wall tent?

I guarentee that I can harden an RV enough to feel more secure of my possessions than I do when tent camping!  I have done it.  There is a 27 foot pull behind in the back yard right now with a closet in the bathroom lined with 3/4" plywood and a good solid lock on the closet door, bathroom door and entry door.  

Fact is I have lived in RV units several times and have never been burgled.  Folks just take it for granted you don't own anything worth stealing or you would not be living in an RV!

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## TresMon

> TM, not to nitpick but i can not wrap my brain around your thought process.
> 
> You can't get a gunsafe into an RV so you choose the wall tent?
> 
> I guarentee that I can harden an RV enough to feel more secure of my possessions than I do when tent camping!  I have done it.  There is a 27 foot pull behind in the back yard right now with a closet in the bathroom lined with 3/4" plywood and a good solid lock on the closet door, bathroom door and entry door.  
> 
> Fact is I have lived in RV units several times and have never been burgled.  Folks just take it for granted you don't own anything worth stealing or you would not be living in an RV!


I laughed when I read that. I totally get how you read that.  The deal was- with the RV set up I would be effortlessly mobile and need to have my valuables with me, hence the "Safe" comment. Now that I'm on operation Wall Tent my valuables will be in a friends basement!

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## kyratshooter

Off the shelter aspect of this thread, but does this abandoned homestead have a well or possibly a spring?

How about a septic system.  You could make use of both even though in a tent.  

Disposing of waste in the tank would make things easier, so would having a well. 

When I built my present place I lived in the RV for 3 months while gutting and remodeling the house.  Having on site water and being able to drop the waste hose directly into the septic tank was a blessing.

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## TresMon

Well as far as water the property is amazing. The front edge of the property is bordered by a trout stream. Facing the trout stream, the left edge of the property is bordered by a small year round creek that comes out of the side of a Mtn. and drains into the trout stream.

As far as the exisiting septic- great point I will have to investigate. Thanks!!!

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## busere

> You might also think about a rain fly. A tarp over the top of your tent to further protect it from the elements...


Great idea...one of the biggest destroyer's of canvas is long exposure to sun light.

As for the floor...you can extend the life of the floor with a ground tarp places under it...also, does the military tent have a sod cloth (5" - 12" strip of cloth that is at the botom...you cover it with sod/dirt to keep critters, rain and drafts out.

Rodney

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## TresMon

Thanks. Yes it has a sod cloth.

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## gryffynklm

In addition to Sun degrading canvas, dirt and debris accumulating will provide a nutrient source for molds and mildew to feed on. Ad the director of a reenacting group that set up at a seasonal venue for 4 months during the summer I learned a lot about canvas structures. 

At this venue our canvas would last between three and five years until I started to do some general maintenance. 

Location WI, MAy through August, hot sometimes very humid, direct sun exposure %50. Dirt trails and paths. Visitors to venue about 5,000 to 10,000 a day (tramping the dirt). 

Effects on canvas: Debris from trees and the dust settles on the canvas. The low pitch of the canvas prevents the dirt and debris from being washed off when it rains. Without a hard rain it just creats mud on the canvas. This held moisture against the canvas and allowed mildew and mold to grow over a short period of time if it doesn't have a chance to dry. This dreasically shortens the use life of canvas. 

Things that help delay deterioration of the canvas. 

1. Pitch of canvas needs to be enough to allow most debris to fall off on its own. If its too flat and you get snow, the weight can cause the canvas to stretch and sag. This will allow    water to pool. too much weight can cause a tear especially if the canvas is getting old. 

2. Watch for dirt/ dust accumulation, sweeping helps reduce the mud when it rains. 

3. when it rains heavy  I have dropped our canvas awning one side at a time and brushed the canvas clean with a push broom. I was surprised how much dirt came off. This reduced the mildew growth.  

4. Wall tent stuff...I have dug a small trench around the base of my wall tent to direct rain run off away from the tent. This will help keep your floor dryer and help dry the walls atthe ground better. Do not stake the canvas stake  loops to the ground make sure they are off the ground at least 1" If the loops are in contact with the ground they will rot faster. When you select a spot to pitch the tent check the ground for run off patterns. Some times you can see in the dirt around were you camp the tracks left by the path of heavy rain run off. Avoid setting on top of those tracks. 

5. Because we were a seasonal camp we took down after the event. Because we can and our location allowed to do so we cleaned out canvas according to Panther Primitives recommended  cleaning. http://www.pantherlodges.com/

From Panther Primitives:

How do I clean my Panther Tent?

The cleaner you keep your tent the longer it will last. Mildew grows on dirt, so it is important to clean it before putting it away. To clean our canvas we recommend mild hand dishwashing liquid like Ivory in lukewarm water. (about a capful to one gallon) Lay the tent down and scrub with a rag or a soft brush. The harder you scrub the more you risk scrubbing off the waterproofing. Do not use bleach or any other chemicals. When finished make sure you rinse very well. Any soap left on the canvas could cause the tent to leak. Make sure the tent is very dry before you store it.

How do I protect my Ground Cloth?

If you have a Panther Super Ground cloth your ground cloth is protected by a layer of plastic sewn on to the bottom that will protect the canvas. If you have a regular canvas ground cloth, lay a piece of plastic on the ground under your ground cloth. While your canvas is mildew repellant, it's not mildew proof. A ground cloth lying on the damp ground for a week creates the perfect conditions for mildew and rot. 


Here is the large awning / camp
823981063_d629216319.jpg 

My wall tent is in the middle of the row. 
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## TresMon

Awesome. I really appreciate the time you took to pass on the info. I love the pics as well. Thank you!

Addendum:
Went down to the property today to measure the one flatish spot for a tent among the trees. Yep the tent will fit, barely but I'm good to go.  Getting excited....

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## gryffynklm

I asume you have read the cautions about setting up amongst trees. 

Widow makers, ant hills carpenter ants on trees, sawdust at base of trees, all indicate the possibility of a bad tree. A piece of sucked on hard candy like jolly rancher placed on the ground will attract ants, If you get a lot of ants there may be a problem near by.    

Check out the condition of limbs above your camp. when leaves are out you can see dead limbs easier then in the winter time. Depending on the height of the canopy, you can use a rope line with a bean bag attached to it to launch a rope over the suspect limb. Stand clear and attempt to pull the bad limb down. This is how we clear the site with the awning in the first picture. We also used Pike to clear some branches from trees. these are 17 ft tall and over 20 ft when carried. We cleared the faire of some of the dead branches each year before opening. 
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## TresMon

Thanks for the info!  Good been there done that info indeed!

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## Lobo Lone Wolf

Recently remembered another discussion on wall tents on another blog that I belong to and will try to link them here for everyone else.

http://www.frontierfreedom.com/index...d=44&Itemid=57

http://www.frontierfreedom.com/index...d=89&Itemid=57

I just noticed they both are the same but the stories are Part 1 and Part 2.

Hope it works and helps.

Lobo

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## 1stimestar

I have a friend who spent 13 months in one up here, yes in Alaska, with her husband and two children, when they didn't get their cabin built in time for winter.  She wrote a very good book on it called Waltz With Me, Alaska. 
http://www.amazon.com/Waltz-Me-Alask...8820087&sr=8-3

You might want to check it out as it can give you a lot of ideas such as how to handle sparks setting your roof on fire.

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