# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Making Stuff >  Tin Cloth Recipe

## kyratshooter

OK I am a glutton for punishment.  I have been promising this for some time so here it is.  I am going to post another recipe, and this one is different, complected (three ingredients) and a little dangerous.

Yes dangerous!

If you are obsessed with safety, constantly worried about "what ifs" or scared of being in close proximity to things that might ignite on their own just stop reading now and save us all the late-comer warnings, government advisories and cautions.

I am presenting my own advice right now so listen up.  All of the things I am going to tell you to heat and mix together are dangerous.  They can ignite!  

All of them are chemicals that do not boil, they go directly from too hot to on fire!
*
For this reason I am advising that if you do this project you do it outside, away from the house, with a fire extinguisher nearby and heat all the ingredients in a double boiler* 

The double boiler I consider a necessity due to the low flash points of the materials.  Each of them ignites at around 300 degrees F.  The recommended wax ignites at 250 degrees F. If you use direct heat on a stove you have no precise control of that exact temperature.  If you use a double boiler your temp will never exceed 212 F degrees so you will probably not turn yourself into a crispy critter.

My double boiler was a simple device made by sitting a small tin can inside a larger tin can with water in it, sitting on a hot plate. 

Also, applying this mixture will ruin whatever base layer you have beneath it.  Cover any surfaces you are using with plastic or you will wind up throwing the table, ironing board or counter top away.  Some of you would wind up divorced so take heed.

If you are in a hurry and need it yesterday just leave now and go play with your I phone because this treatment takes time, which is probably why Filson charges $300 for the application.

Now for the rest of the story. 


Back in the day outdoor companies waterproofed their gear, coats, packs, bags and such with a wax treatment we have come to call "Tin Cloth".  Filson is the most well known company that still offers this treatment to their classic gear and it is good enough for some folks to still pay $500 for a Filson Tin Cloth chore coat that would cost only $200 without the coating from the same Filson catalog.

In the old days the basis of this finish was bees wax, and it can still be done with bees wax, but that is no longer what Filson and the other companies use.  Today they use a "petroleum wax".

I searched all over the internet trying to find a recipe for this petroleum wax and how to apply it.  I found dozens of recipes and sets of instructions and guess what???

!!!THEY WERE ALL HORSE HOCKEY!!!  

None of them worked, and I tried more than a dozen over the last two months.  Apparently all these people were google searching, finding the same recipes and advising them without ever trying them!  Not only did they not work, some of them ruined the fabric samples I tested them on.

Imagine that!!!

Someone on the internet was wrong!

My instructions and recipe have been tested.  They work.  They make a true "tin cloth" of the old style.  I tested the mixtures and application on canvas painter's tarp, heavy cotton pillow ticking until I got it right and each application is a long process, so it took several weeks to make sure it was correct.

After it was perfected I applied it to a finished cotton hunting coat from Cabellas , a yuppie level chore coat from Banana Republic and several cotton based caps and hats I found hanging behind doors and on racks around the house.  It works, so I am passing it on.

Here is how it works.

You will need;
A heat gun or strong hair dryer
The before mentioned double boiler
16oz of boiled linseed oil
16oz of mineral spirits
1 wax commode ring (5oz)

Yep that is right, a wax commode ring!

This recipe will render enough of the formula to treat a thigh length chore coat and have enough left to treat a cap or hat.  It will treat two hunting shirts or probably three fishing vests.

When the water in the double boiler is hot place the wax commode ring in the device and melt it.  When it is melted slowly add the boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits.  Wait until the entire mixture is hot.  Do not remove the mixture from the double boiler to apply, it will cool and turn mushy.  It needs to remain hot and fluid.

Using a clean paint brush apply the liquid to the fabric saturating the surface completely.  Stir the mixture every few minutes.  It will soak in very well while hot and the wax does not turn lumpy or solid while you are working with it as long as the mixture is kept hot

Once the entire garment is saturated hang it on a heavy coat hanger in a dry place out of the sunshine and let it dry.  

Drying will take a full week.  Do not go back and check the item every half hour!  Do not go back and check the item every day!  Go away and leave it alone for a full week.

The reason is simple.  For the first two or three days you are going to think you have ruined the item.  The wax will remain gooey and it will feel slimy to the touch.  At some point between day 4 and 6, and it varies between fabrics, everything will dry out and turn to unfinished tin cloth. 

When the garment has dried it will not feel waxy or oily and it will not smell.

Now that the item is dry it is time to "finish" it.  The finish is what turns the application int real "tin cloth".  *You can not skip this part*.  It is the key to the entire process looking like you did it on purpose.

Take your hair dryer or heat gun, and being very careful, apply heat to the fabric one section at a time, bringing the wax in the fabric to nearly melting, but not burning the fabric.  You will see the wax in the mixture change color and go nearly liquid.  As it does any lumping of the wax as it dried, or streaking of the treatment on the fabric, will be absorbed or disappear giving you a smooth and slightly waxy appearance.

You now have "Tin Cloth".

Any of the mixture that is left over can be saved, reheated and it works fine.  It will turn solid, but not hard, overnight and I suspect it would make a good leather treatment!

I would suggest you follow my instructions exactly for your first effort, but in this instance I will admit that I adjusted the formula a dozen different ways and still had some measure of success.  The "16oz/16oz/1 ring" is simply easy to remember and works perfectly. 

If you adjust it you are on your own!!!

You need your mineral spirits in there because they are your dryer and without them the fabric will never dry.  However, if you want a more waxy surface, as you would on a pack or bag, you can use two commode rings and it will still work.  You can use a bit less oil if you are running short, but the oil seems to be the carrier for the wax so you need enough to float the melted wax.  

I had success with mixtures as dense as 1 part linseed oil/1 part mineral spirits/1 part wax.  It took two weeks to dry and was extremely stiff, but it worked.

And here is a tidbit, you can substitute an equal amount of bees wax for the commode ring if you want a historically accurate waterproofing.  None of the other instructions change.  Just be aware that you can use too much bees wax and it will sit on top of the fabric and look terrible.  Be stingy with it.

At any rate, I have a Banana Republic "tin cloth" chore coat to wear this fall.  It is equal to a $500 Filson and I have about $20 in the Ebay coat and exactly $10 in the mixture.

I also have a Cabellas "tin cloth" safari jacket which can not be had from anywhere!

And a half dozen hats that will hold water.

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## randyt

awesome, now what do I have that's need a tin cloth treatment.

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## hunter63

Sooooo...If I substitute "tin"......what temp does the "tin" melt?....You know for a "real tin cloth".


Bazinga!

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## madmax

Outstanding!  I'll treat some canvas for a 'vous poncho soon.  Thanks for the experimentation and sharing.

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## crashdive123

Excellent.  What if I change..............

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## Rick

I think I just saw a small mushroom cloud over Kentucky.

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## kyratshooter

As long as you don't add roofing tar, turpentine, or buttermilk to it you should be fine.

BTW, this treatment does turn the fabric a shade or two darker.  I think it is the coloring they add to the commode ring that does it.

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## edr730

I remember older people using a mix like that on tents and things. I never knew what was in it except wax and was often curious about it. I have seen some white wax toilet rings tho.

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## backshot

Thanks for the info! If I let the mixture harden will it also work like Filson wax? I have a few Filson hats that haven't been treated in years & need help. I packed them away & forgot I had them! Funny how retiring & moving to the country has increased my inventory of toys & equipment. Now to do all the projects I've put off for years & enjoy life.

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## hunter63

> Thanks for the info! If I let the mixture harden will it also work like Filson wax? I have a few Filson hats that haven't been treated in years & need help. I packed them away & forgot I had them! Funny how retiring & moving to the country has increased my inventory of toys & equipment. Now to do all the projects I've put off for years & enjoy life.


.....works out if you have the cash to keep up......LOL....

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## Str8arrow

Can someone explain the main difference in uses for tin-cloth vs oil-cloth?

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## kyratshooter

> Thanks for the info! If I let the mixture harden will it also work like Filson wax? I have a few Filson hats that haven't been treated in years & need help. I packed them away & forgot I had them! Funny how retiring & moving to the country has increased my inventory of toys & equipment. Now to do all the projects I've put off for years & enjoy life.


This basically is the same formula as Filson wax except that the canned wax they sell for conditioning has more wax in it so it will harden like shoe polish.  You rub it in instead of melting and brushing it on and then heat it with a heat source to bled it.  

The hard wax treatment is not intended for complete treatment and generally is used to "touch up" bare spots or hard use areas. 

The recipe I have given is cheap enough to treat entire garments and it blends and finishes better than what you would get in the small cans.

This particular blend will not completely harden to a solid form and will remain quite mushy.  If you want it to harden completely double the wax content, but be aware that it may leave a wax residue when you finish it.  

After using "oil cloth" for years and now using the "tin cloth" I find the main difference being durability, waterproofing and ability to treat fabrics with tincloth that will not be waterproof with oilcloth.

The wax in the tincloth fills the open weaves of less dense fabrics, gives a nice dry, tough to the touch finish that beads water and sheds it from the surface.

Oilcloth works well for dense close weave fabrics but it is not as tough and durable as the tincloth.

The only difference between the recipes is the addition of the wax to the tincloth and the hot wax method of application.  The standard oilcloth recipe is still the base but the difference between the finished fabrics is profound.  

The only thing I can tell anyone is to make up a small batch and use it on some natural fabric garment that you would otherwise throw away.  Check your results and decide for yourself if the time and effort is worth it.

You might find that you have extended the lifespan of some favorite article you would have otherwise thrown out.

My last garment treated was a cotton alphenflague field jacket I got from Sportsmans' Guide two for $10 or some such price.  I now have an alphenflague  tincloth jacket in each vehicle that sheds water instead of soaking it up.

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## Str8arrow

Thanks for that explanation on the differences.  I'm going to treat several pieces, but was trying to determine what might work best on some hunting pants.  They are a heavy canvas material that has a nylon front for protection. I've been spraying it with a commercial waterproofer, but it needs frequent applications and is expensive. It's the nylon front that has me wondering. It covers the underlying canvas, so unless I treat from the inside (haven't heard anyone mention trying that),  I'm afraid that the nylon won't be water resistant enough with the homemade preps.  I don't want to ruin these, because they are good ones with a lot of life left in them.  So, is it advisable to treat the nylon with the tin-cloth formula, or maybe treat from the inside?

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## Str8arrow

Almost forgot... when picking up the supplies, I noticed that there were a couple choices in solvents. One was labeled VM&P Naphtha, but not called mineral spirits and one was labeled mineral spirits, but did not say it was naphtha - it appeared to have a different chemical on the label.  I though mineral spirits was supposed to be naphtha.  Can someone clear this up for me?

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## Rick

The principal differences between the two are evaporation rate and oiliness. Naphtha evaporates more quickly than mineral spirits and is “drier,” or less oily. Mineral spirits is a lower distillate than Naptha. If you think of Naptha being lighter fluid you are on the right track. Naptha is a stronger solvent than mineral spirits, which can have some percentage of water in it. There is none in Naptha (unless you mess up storing it  :Whistling:  )

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## kyratshooter

I have used both types of "mineral spirits" and both work OK.

As for the application on two layers of fabric, I would turn the pants inside out and treat both sides.  

Remember that when you apply this stuff you are applying heat melted wax in a chemical carrier which fills the weave of the fabric then turns solid when it cools.  The linseed oil dilutes the wax enough that the whole mess does not turn back into a candle wax like substance as it cools, then the mineral spirits dry the oils so they do not remain sticky.

The finish is tough and stiff and when you get done with it the first thing you think is "this stuff is tough as nails". 

I would really recommend that you do a test application before applying to an expensive garment to insure you have the blend and the result as you want it before doing something expensive.

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## edr730

Best not to use the Naptha.  Coleman fuel seems to be Naptha or is similar. It explodes more easily than gasoline while mineral spirits will ignite like charcoal lighter fluid. If you did decide to use Naptha, I would suggest mixing the linseed oil with the Naptha first and light a teaspoon of it first to test it's flammability after it is mixed. I'm pretty sure Naptha and the linseed oil would still be too flammable to use an open flame unless the wax was already mixed up with the linseed oil first.

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## kyratshooter

In many areas the terms naphtha and mineral spirits are used interchangeably as "spirits of naphtha".

And the flammability of the entire mess is the reason I stressed the use of a double boiler for this work in the OP and recommended that it be done outside and not in the house.

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## edr730

I used the recipe and it worked very well on a big sheet. I even poured hot water on the mixture in a five gallon bucket mixed well and dunked the sheet and it still worked fine. 
I meant to say the mineral spirits ignited like charcoal lighter fluid and burns slow while coleman fuel or Naptha can explode and should not be with 10 feet of a flame before the recipe is thoughly mixed. 
I know you strongly emphasized the warnings. When I thought of someone using what I know as Naptha, I just wanted to say "listen up" these are fear of God type warnings. I liked the recipe and will continue to use it often.

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## Str8arrow

Great suggestions. I have a hunch that less of the stronger Naphtha is needed in the mixture to begin with.  I will definitely mix it with the linseed oil first.

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## pgvoutdoors

*kyratshooter* - Your formula and research are well thought out, thanks.  Also, very good questions and comments by the forum, a pleasure to read the thread.

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## Str8arrow

Just got done with my first batch.  I used one part boiled linseed oil, 1/2 part VM&P Naphtha and 1/3 part beeswax.  I keep bees, so I had some old comb to melt into it. It was quite dirty with lots of bee stuff in it - propolis, pollen,etc.  On the other hand, the old comb is easy to melt - it's so thin, it mixes in quickly. It was a warm, sunny day so I coated the items outside on the ground. The mixture was very watery and stayed that way until it was almost completely used.  Because of this, the two items I waxed probably got too much wax. It quickly soaked all the way through the cloth - no heat gun needed. I found out the dirty comb was no problem.  All the bits of stuff just stayed on the surface of the cloth and was easily brushed away.  I waxed a cap and a pair of pants. It went very quickly and was far easier than I thought it would be. I used a small dense piece of foam to spread the wax and it worked very well - easy to work into all the seams.  The hat probably took no more than two minutes to coat and the pants were done withing 15 minutes. Using this method, the time and effort was minimal. 

When done, I hung the items in the attic of my barn where it is quite warm during the days.  I'll update this down the road when I have an idea as to how effective this was.

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## edr730

That linseed oil is great stuff and I'm glad that this thread has shown me how to make this tin cloth. I've got quite a bit of linseed oil and I've used in on many things because it has the unique characteristic of hardening so well. Another unique characteristic that it has is that it catches fire very easily if you wad your rag up and toss it somewhere. More often than not, you will have a fire. Be careful where you put your rags and dry them as well.

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## Rick

If you lay your rags out flat you won't have the problem of spontaneous combustion. At least I've never had a problem with it. The oil oxidizes in air and the process of oxidation releases heat. As the heat increases it speeds up the oxidation which releases more heat and that cycle continues until the rags burst into flames. If the rag is laying flat the heat can escape. If you have a pile of rags then the heat is trapped and keeps increasing until ...  Uh oh. Honey, hand me the fire extinguisher.

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## edr730

Flat is good. Linseed oil is a very different kind of oil when it comes to spontaneous combustion. Flat will work.

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## Str8arrow

Here's an update on the items I treated with my mix.  After 3 days, the smell is gone or at least gone in the room the garments are hanging. If I put my nose right on the items, I can smell it, but the drying process appears to have progressed quite rapidly.  They are dry to the touch, but if I rub them, I do get a waxy film on my fingers. It could be that the VM&P caused the drying to go more rapidly.  I own a pair of waxed McAlister pants and comparing the two, my homemade waxed pants seem to contain more wax, are stiffer and heavier, but it is a heavier cloth than what is on my McAlisters. I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing so far.

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## kyratshooter

Do not forget that after the items dry completely you will need to go over them with the hair dryer and remelt the entire item so it will completely even out.  Everything will sort of glaze together.

It does not require another drying session for the retouch and the items will be dry again overnight.

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## Str8arrow

> Do not forget that after the items dry completely you will need to go over them with the hair dryer and remelt the entire item so it will completely even out.  Everything will sort of glaze together.
> 
> It does not require another drying session for the retouch and the items will be dry again overnight.


I won't forget that part.  I have seen a few sites that recommend drying the item in the sun.  You say, not to put it in the sun.  What does the sun do that we want to avoid?

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## kyratshooter

> I won't forget that part.  I have seen a few sites that recommend drying the item in the sun.  You say, not to put it in the sun.  What does the sun do that we want to avoid?


Nothing wrong with exposing the tincloth to the sun.  The hair dryer or heat gun just allows you to do it uniformly and at your own convenience.  You also have the consideration that bees wax does not melt until it reaches 140f degrees so it will take a really hot day to get everything to blend.  It has been hot here this summer, but we have not hit 140 yet!

Chances are that you are going to be wearing these garments while in the sun at some time anyway, after all it is outdoor wear.  The sun is not going to hurt it at all and I would suppose it provides a refreshing service for the treatment.

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## Str8arrow

Putting in the sun, wasn't to melt anything. I was thinking it would speed the drying process.  When I coated the fabric, it was a very hot, sunny day and I did it outside in the sun. The mixture was almost like water and when I put in on the cloth, it didn't harden for several minutes.  It appeared to spread very evenly and thoroughly while I was putting it on. 5 days later, it still looks like a finished product.  I will hit it with the heat gun, but I'm not really expecting it to look any different.  The cloth already looks saturated and is evenly colored.

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## hunter63

Soooo.....anyone wearing this stuff yet?.....
How is it feeling....sticky?, rubbing off?......

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## kyratshooter

I wore the light jacket to the grocery the other day in the rain.

Only thing I noticed was that is smelled like my grand-dad's coat rack from back in the day and was in need of breaking in.

I expect to get some good wear out of the chore coat when winter arrives.

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## cylon

I've got to try this.....  :Smile:

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## Str8arrow

It's been raining here the past couple days, so I've been wearing the cap. It sheds water, no problem. It still has a very faint smell, but seems to be getting less each day, so I expect it will have a rather neutral smell shortly.  It is not in the least sticky or tacky. It left no residue on my skin that I could detect.  I'll be wearing the pants this weekend while in the woods. It's supposed to rain every day for the next 3-4 days, so I'll soon have a good idea on the value of this.

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## hunter63

> It's been raining here the past couple days, so I've been wearing the cap. It sheds water, no problem. It still has a very faint smell, but seems to be getting less each day, so I expect it will have a rather neutral smell shortly.  It is not in the least sticky or tacky. It left no residue on my skin that I could detect.  I'll be wearing the pants this weekend while in the woods. It's supposed to rain every day for the next 3-4 days, so I'll soon have a good idea on the value of this.


Keep us posted.....need pics.....

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## Billofthenorth

How do you "clean" this stuff after you've worn and sweated in the jacket for a few months?
 I've tried soaking in water to kind of get the B.O. out but it never quite goes entirely away. I guess it doesn't really matter that much since I'm usually alone on a hike or snowshoeing. Then again, maybe that's the reason I'm alone when hiking or snowshoeing.....hmmm.  :Huh:

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## madmax

Iy's going to rain tomorrow here.  But Tues I'm doing a poncho for an upcoming 'vous.

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## kyratshooter

> How do you "clean" this stuff after you've worn and sweated in the jacket for a few months?
>  I've tried soaking in water to kind of get the B.O. out but it never quite goes entirely away. I guess it doesn't really matter that much since I'm usually alone on a hike or snowshoeing. Then again, maybe that's the reason I'm alone when hiking or snowshoeing.....hmmm.


According to the Filson people you use a soft brush and water only.  No soap, it removes the finish.  

Do not Dry clean.

Do not machine wash.

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## finallyME

Don't know how I missed this entire thread.  Need to somehow save this. Thanks KYRS

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## pgvoutdoors

I saw Kyratshooter's coat at the get together in Kentucky this year and it looked great, nice color, soft, and pleasant smell.  Good as any oil skin I've seen.

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## finallyME

I have been thinking about an mid-19th century rain coat.  This would be perfect.  Along with a tent of the same era.  I could also use it on a possibles bag, etc.

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## hunter63

Stormy Kromer now has a "waxed cotton Kromer....
https://www.stormykromer.com/product...cotton-cap.asp

Have a Carhartt hose cloth as well.
I have to believe these be treated?

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## finallyME

> Stormy Kromer now has a "waxed cotton Kromer....
> https://www.stormykromer.com/product...cotton-cap.asp
> 
> Have a Carhartt hose cloth as well.
> I have to believe these be treated?


Nice hat... if I was in the Air Force.  :Wink:   Take off the ear flaps, and maybe then I would like them.  :Smile:

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## hunter63

Dey wer'm up nort der....eh?
LOL

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## Rabbitsmackers

Last Sunday I made a batch of this according to the original ratios of the recipe. Now at five days since application and the fabric seems to be dry to the touch, however, the smell of mineral spirits is still quite strong. In my opinion, it hasn't lessened at all since application. The garments have been drying in a well ventilated, dry area. If I understand the process correctly, then the job of the mineral spirits is to act as a catalyst, drying the oil/wax as it evaporates. it seems to me then, that if the smell of the mineral spirits is still lingering, it hasn't dried completely. Can someone explain to me why this may or may not be the case?

Only variable that was changed from the original recipe was the material to which the solution was applied. I'm attempting to make chaps for rabbit hunting and the best material I had was a pair of standard issue Marine Corps cammies. They are 50% cotton and 50% nylon. I realize this has a major affect on the way the mixture penetrates, sets, and its overall effectiveness. I thought I'd give it a try seeing as all I had to buy was the wax toilet ring, and I will never wear those cammies again. Regardless of the material, I wouldn't have thought the pungent smell of mineral spirits would still be so strong.

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## kyratshooter

If it has been five (5) days since the application then you have not waited the full week that was part of the recipe.

You have also not "finished" the garment with the application of heat.

Go away for another two or three days and then finish the fabric and let it hang for another few days.  

It will take some time for the smell of the chemicals to dissipate and there will be a specific smell that is and has been associated with "tin cloth" which remains permanently.   

We could call it a heritage smell, like the aroma of a military surplus rucksack, tent, or any of the aromas us older guys remember as part of our outdoor experiences. I suppose the generation that has grown up in an odorless, tasteless, hypoallergenic world has missed out on that.

My coat tree by the door now smells like my grandad's coat tree by the door, where he hung his Filson tincloth coat every day.

In other words, the garment, whatever it is, will smell like tin cloth, because tin cloth has a specif smell, one you remember for all your life.

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## Blamo

Hello Kyratshooter.  Great post and you actually got me to register on here to pick your brain.  It is my understanding that Filsons tin cloth utilizes paraffin wax.  They also used to make a soy wax cloth which they no longer have available.  I always found it strange that they would use paraffin, as it melts at 99 degrees, and discontinue soy, as it melts at 120 to 180 degrees depending on the blend.  I have a pair of Filson chaps that I completely melted out the paraffin on it on a hot summer day cutting wood.  

You say that this is how Filson makes their tin cloth, but I know they use paraffin wax not beeswax/toilet bowl gasket ring?
Do you think/have you tried to use soy wax with this recipe?
Is the paraffin used to ease application? (You can pretty much rub the wax together to get it to melt.)

I plan on using your recipe and don't want to reinvent the wheel if you have in fact already tried soy and paraffin wax.  I have a pair of canvas carpenter pants that I want to waterproof, wind proof, and briar proof both for the bike and cutting wood.  I'd rather pay 30 bucks rather than 300 especially if the beeswax or soy wax holds up better than the Filson paraffin based tin cloth.

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## kyratshooter

Paraffin wax turns hard and cakes up, then flakes off.  I have never been able to make it work at any ratio or temperature.  I have seen other people try to use it and all have been unsuccessful.

If Filson uses paraffin they have a secret recipe no one knows and it is not part of the refinishing kit they sell.

Filson at one time used bees wax but changed their recipe to a petroleum base many years ago due to the cost of bees wax.

I have never used soy wax.  Did not know such a thing existed.

How do you wax a soy anyway?

I say have at it and experiment all you want.  

It is the lack of experimentation that messes things up.  People post sure fire recipes they got from the internet and never check them out.  Most of them don't work or leave a mess.

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## Blamo

> Paraffin wax turns hard and cakes up, then flakes off.  I have never been able to make it work at any ratio or temperature.  I have seen other people try to use it and all have been unsuccessful.
> 
> If Filson uses paraffin they have a secret recipe no one knows and it is not part of the refinishing kit they sell.
> 
> Filson at one time used bees wax but changed their recipe to a petroleum base many years ago due to the cost of bees wax.
> 
> I have never used soy wax.  Did not know such a thing existed.
> 
> How do you wax a soy anyway?
> ...


Well, I'm a bee keeper so, I have plenty of wax on hand.  So, I will give your recipe a whirl and save the soy for another time.  I have a soy wax Filson tin coat that I got half off (who can afford full price) so I will be able to compare it to the bees wax that I use.  This photo is of Filsons refinishing kit, I also have one for the soy jacket, clearly lists the wax as paraffin.  

IMG_0024.jpg

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## kyratshooter

Try it then and see how it works.

I believe the hard paraffin is going to disappoint you and that the paraffin used by Filson is actually a form of petroleum jelly mixed with drying agents, which is also defined as paraffin.  (4 definitions I found for that substance)

I may be wrong.  Don't really care.  My recipe works, and duplicates the original, so I use it.

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## pgvoutdoors

KYratshooter - I have decided to treat one of my Woolrich trekker vests.  I love the vests but they are cotton and should be water repellant.  I hope I can do as good of job as you did on your jacket I saw this summer.

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## kyratshooter

Been raining here for two days.  

I gave the waxed chore coat a workout.

It is still holding up so we will see if it last longer than I do.  I am pretty sure they threw away a good Filson jacket when my grandpa died back in 1965.  His outlasted him.

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## Wine

Thanks for this post, kryatshooter. I'm interested and this looks like the best procedure I have found after some quick searching. 

I'm not super familiar with some of what you're describing here, so I may be missing something that's obvious to others, but why is it that your recipe describes the wax in terms of it's intended use and not the make-up of the wax itself.  I'm not very familiar with wax commode/toilet rings, but it seems possible they're offered in different types of wax, or at least different consistencies of wax. 

Right now I'm inclined to go the bee's wax route, but not because I'm making an informed decision, more the opposite. I'm inclined to choose bee's wax because I feel like I know nothing about the alternative. This makes me uncomfortable, as you seem to choose the commode wax as a favorite over bees wax. 

Anybody care to explain what kind of wax is likely to be used in the average commode ring? Is it standardized so they're all exactly the same kind of wax? are there other types of wax other than bee's and the commode ring you think might work well for this recipe? 

Thanks in advance.

----------


## kyratshooter

Depending on where you are in the world a wax commode ring is a fairly standard item.  

In the U.S. you can obtain them at any Lowes or Home Depot in the plumbing department for about $2.

You can also obtain them from any Ace or Do It Right hardware store for about the same price.

I am sure any plumbing supply center, building products outlet or any plumber driving a van down the highway would have one available.

I do not know the exact composition of a wax commode ring but I suspect that it is made from a combination of paraffin wax and petroleum jelly in some well defined ratio.  I am not sure about that so do not take it as gospel.  

I used Bees wax in part of my experimentation but abandoned it due to two factors.  

1. the commode rings worked better
2. the bees wax is incredibly expensive 

I also heard that you can make the formula from the ear wax of a Hivernaian dragon, but I never tried that.  I hear the dragons are very difficult to force to stand still while harvesting the wax.

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## finallyME

Thought of you KYRS when I saw this video.  



Now I know how to make my own.  $50 for Carharts, and KYRS's recipe.... much cheaper.  :Smile:

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## JohnLeePettimore

> Thought of you KYRS when I saw this video.  
> 
> 
> 
> Now I know how to make my own.  $50 for Carharts, and KYRS's recipe.... much cheaper.


I should've posted this, too.

I commented on this video, and included links to this post, and the Oil Cloth Recipe post.

If you care, I'm Arkansas Pilgrim on YT.

BTW, the Carhartt's are only double on the front, and not all the way up to the waist either.  It's like I say about my Harbor Freight Compound Sliding miter saw, compared to a DeWalt:  "You can put up with a LOT for $300 cheaper!"

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## Str8arrow

I posted on this thread about 9 months ago and thought I would report back in with my thoughts after several months of use. The formula I decided on, included bees wax because I'm not comfortable with petroleum products that are on my skin, plus I'm a beekeeper with lots of bees wax.  

First, there was a light smell of solvent that didn't totally go away for about 3 months or so.  The garments were totally usable, but you could smell the solvent (at least that is what I interpreted it as).  After a few months, just a light pleasant smell remained that I'm guessing is what bees wax mixed with linseed oil smells like.  I actually enjoy this faint smell, which is only noticeable if I put my nose very near.   The garments work very well, shedding water and thorns very nicely. I plan to do a few more items this summer. I waited this long because I think prolonged heat speeds the process. It's also much easier to apply on a hot sunny day and the first few days, I can just leave them outside (when they stink the most).

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## JohnLeePettimore

I'm going to do mine this summer, too. Just waiting for the heat to help.

The weird thing is, it isn't really hot here yet.  It's usually pretty hot by the end of May (sometimes the beginning).  It must be global warming.

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## Suraya

So, I intend on making a waterproof cloak out of linen.  I was going to use the oil cloth method you listed in a previous thread, but now I am questioning if it will be too stiff.  My concern with the tin cloth is the heat.  We move a lot and the cloak may get left in a hot car.  Will that be a problem?  Should I go ahead and just use oil cloth?

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## JohnLeePettimore

Oookaaayyy...I finally got around to taking a shot at making my tin pants.

I followed your recipe, kyrat.  16 oz. of mineral spirits, 16 oz. of BLO, and one wax toilet ring; melt wax in a double boiler, add liquids, keep hot.

I used Carhartt double front pants, but green, not tan.  I may be a Wranglerstar fan-boy, but I'm not a total sheep.

They're now hanging in my barn to dry.  It's hot here, so they should dry well.

The mixture acted a little differently than I was expecting. I brought the water to a boil while melting the wax, and waited until it was melted completely before adding the liquids.  I slowly poured the mineral spirits in, expecting the room temperature (which is warm) liquid to make the wax re-solidify, or at least make a mush.  It stayed liquid. I poured in the BLO, and it stayed liquid.  It wasn't real thick, either.  On the contrary, it was actually pretty thin.  The water in the double boiler was always at or near boiling, so I guess that helped.  I painted the pants thoroughly, making sure it soaked all the way through.  There were never any lumps at all.  The pants just look wet, except for still being stiff.  The concoction soaked in completely without any surface residue.

I just noticed that the recipe indicated a 5 oz wax ring.  They didn't have the weight on the box, but I got the one that said "extra thick".  I don't remember if there were any others that didn't say that.  I bought it over a year ago, just before I went to the 1998 Procrastinators Convention.  I probably should've weighed it.  Oh well, I think the pants will be great anyway.  They'll be tougher and more waterproof than they were before I treated them.

I'll check in next Saturday and let you know what they look like.  I'm wondering if they will even need the re-melt, but I'm prepared to do it anyway.

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## kyratshooter

You will need to do the remelt.  That is the trick to making the finished tin cloth according to Filson company.

It does not take long and you can do it with a hair dryer.

I always cringe a little and hope the recipes work well for the folks that try them.  

My safari jacket turned out real well and I wore it a lot last year during spring/fall rains.  The chore coat I have used around the house a lot doing things in the rain and snow during winter.  It is very heavy!

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## JohnLeePettimore

Oh, I was planning on following your instructions and doing the re-melt.  It's just that I was expecting it to look lumpy, or something, so the re-melt would take that out.  Once it actually dries, I'll probably see the variations that need smoothing.

I'm not one of those people that will argue with you about your instructions when I've never done it myself.  I might ask a lot of irritating questions, but they're out curiosity about the reasons for a given process, not a challenge to the validity of the process.  "What is the reason for doing XXXXX?"  not "Why the #@*% do you do that?"

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## kyratshooter

When I first started re-enactment I had to make all of my own gear and I was following the directions of people that were supposed to be the best in the "business".  They had it all and had done it all. Now they were writing books for us newbies to use to duplicate their efforts.

Most of the time their recipes did not work and I realized that they had really not done the process themselves or they would know that!  They were repeating something someone told them across a campfire when both parties had a pint or two of rum in them.

BTW, that process works real well on cheap rucksacks, turning a simple cloth bag in to what Deluth Traders charge a couple of hundred dollars for.

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## JohnLeePettimore

I'll guess I'll find out soon enough whether you were bullxxxxing, or not!  ;o)

Seriously, I've had that experience with several things I "learned" on the internet.  2-litre bottle mosquito killers, and potatoes in a barrel come to mind.  I think they were posted by someone originally as a joke, and they keep getting copied and reposted by bloggers who had a slow day and needed material.

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## JohnLeePettimore

Well, it's been a week (8 days, actually), and the pants are definitely drier than they were.  I'm going to wait until at least next weekend before doing the re-melt.

Kyrat, you said you used one batch to do a thigh-length coat, with a little left over.  I used one batch, with a little left over, to do a pair of pants.  I think there is considerably less area on a pair of pants than on a coat.  More than half, maybe, but not much more.  So they may need to dry a while.  This is the weather to do it, and there's no hurry because these things are cold weather clothing anyway.

I'll keep you posted.

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## FarmerHands

I've been looking into getting a #51 canoe pack from Duluth Pack, which they offer in waxed cotton canvas for $30 more. Upon reading their FAQ page on the material, and I quote "Our Waxed Canvas comes to us pretreated with paraffin, a petroleum based wax. The wax application is applied to the cotton fibers prior to being woven into actual canvas." Dope. EXCEPT that I have heard bad reviews of paraffin tin cloth (ie melting at low temps). So I want to try your recipe with beeswax (after first testing it out on something else of course!) BUT I was wondering if anyone has done this recipe on an item with leather and/or cotton straps. Will this damage/adhere to the straps? Do I need to take certain precautions? Thanks

https://www.duluthpack.com/backpacks...1-utility.html

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## kyratshooter

I did a canvas coat that had leather trim collar and cuffs.

You are going to be saturation painting the item with hot wax diluted with other chemicals heated to just below the boiling point, so yes, it is going to affect the leather and adhere to it.  It will actually soak into and penetrate the leather.

It did not "ruin" the leather trim on my coat but it did change it in texture and color. If the mixture is heavy on the wax percentage it will probably show as excess wax on the surface of the leather.

If your Duluth pack is only $30 more for factory treatment I would pay the extra and get the treated pack and its warranty. The chemicals for the home brew solution are going to cost half that much at least and you have no chance of messing up the process.

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## JohnLeePettimore

Well, I finally got around to trying the "re-melt" step, and my freakin' Horrible Fright heat gun burned out on me.  I guess I'll have to grab the blow dryer and finish it.

It was the "Drill Master" brand, so I guess I should've expected it to fail.  The DM cordless drills suck royally.

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## JohnLeePettimore

Well, I finally finished the tin pants.  I tried using a blow dryer for the re-melt, but the surface of the pants didn't change appearance AT ALL.  It didn't with the heat gun either before it burned out.  So, I just used the oven in the kitchen.  I heated it to the lowest I could (170 F), and shut it off.  I laid the pants zig zag on the two racks, closed it up, and turned the convect on for bit, without heat.  I left them in for about 20 minutes, and they were nice and hot when they came out, so I'm sure they got above the 140 F that kyrat said was necessary.

I'm not sure why my experience with this was different from kyrat described.  The cloth never had a waxy sheen, or lumps, or even the appearance of wax in the roughness of the cloth.  It didn't change color when heated, or change in appearance at all.  I used the biggest Oatey brand wax ring that Lowe's had, but I didn't weigh it to see if it was five ounces.  The Lowe's website says it weighs 0.5 lbs (8 oz.), but I don't think that's necessarily accurate.  Next time, I'll use beeswax, and weigh it.

I'll be doing a green Carhartt jacket next (who knows when), so I'll be fashionable, with matching pants and jacket, when I'm out working in the misty cold amongst the greenbriars.

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## Str8arrow

I came across this video and it appears well researched. After applying my own formula on several garments that I'm quite happy with, I'll now have to try this new formula. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvZczKZfvF4

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## kyratshooter

That is a phony video.  No one that ever accomplished anything keeps their shop that clean.

That's just plain perverted!

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## JohnLeePettimore

> That is a phony video.  No one that ever accomplished anything keeps their shop that clean.
> 
> That's just plain perverted!


I guess that means that I'm totally virtuous!

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## crashdive123

Me too.............

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## Rick

My garage must be just this side of heaven. I'm thinking of submitting it for a superfund site. The only thing keeping me from it is if they select it they would actually come get some of my stuff and that would tick me off to no end.

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## Str8arrow

Funny, I hadn't even noticed how clean it was. I figured it was a video studio, not a shop.  Even so, I ordered my microcrystalline wax and I happened to just get done with a project where I bought a new can of tung oil, so I'm all set to try this new formula out.

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## kyratshooter

Another reinvention of the wheel.

Since the two part formula works well, and has for more than a century, lets add six new ingredients and another couple of steps to the process, make it more expensive and complected and give everyone more ways to mess it up!

Your mission in life is now accomplished.

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## JohnLeePettimore

I was wondering when you you were going to weigh in on this guy's recipe.

Don't you know that changing things and making them complicated is the way to go?

https://youtu.be/K1Lo-d8AWL0?t=1m52s

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## JohnLeePettimore

Well, I actually watched the video now, and I have to say, at least this guy did something himself and didn't just parrot someone else.

Parrots that haven't actually done anything are a pet peeve of mine.  The example that comes to mind is people that commented on Wranglerstar when he was doing a winemaking video.  Gobs of people said, "Twirl the bottle so that the water swirls on the way out.  It'll empty faster that way."  Anyone who has ever done this will know that it takes WAY longer (3, 4, or 5X longer) to empty a bottle this way.

Anyway, his pants look like they're great, but are they really that much better?  The amount of wax actually seems like an overkill.

At least he didn't use turpentine, and he did the re-melt, eh kyrat?  Although, it seems that doing before they dried is a bad idea.  He even said he didn't want to evaporate stuff that needed to stay there.  The only real problem I had was how dismissive he was of the old materials.  The stuff he used is probably better (especially the wax), but that doesn't mean that beeswax and BLO are crap.

BTW, kyrat, any ideas about the issues with mine?  As a reminder, when I added the liquids to the melted wax, everything stayed liquid, and I never had any problem with it getting thick.  It all soaked in, but the surface has never had a shiny, waxy appearance.  I did the re-melt, but there wasn't anything on the surface to re-melt and even out.

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## Rick

I don't know about twirl but if you spin the contents so that air enters the bottle it will empty faster. That's my preferred method. The fact that air enters and doesn't create an airlock is the reason it empties faster. Think of whirlpool inside the bottle.

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## Str8arrow

Really didn't expect this to be dismissed so readily without even trying it.  Didn't seem that complicated to me. I've coated several garments with my mix of beeswax, linseed oil and naptha, so I'll have a good basis of comparison to this one when I try it.  I don't plan on doing both tung oils, just the one I have on hand along with the naptha I have and the wax. Three ingredients, just like the other formula and basically the exact same process to apply it.  I must be missing something.

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## JohnLeePettimore

> I don't know about twirl but if you spin the contents so that air enters the bottle it will empty faster. That's my preferred method. The fact that air enters and doesn't create an airlock is the reason it empties faster. Think of whirlpool inside the bottle.


Well, I was going to accuse you of just messing with me, but I went and checked it just to make sure.  I only had one kind of wine bottle (a Bordeaux type), and sure enough, it emptied faster with the whirlpool.  I know I've had them empty faster by chugging, but that was with hot soapy water.  That was when I noticed.  That must make a difference.  Viscosity, and all that. I checked with a smaller bottle (almost spherical) with a slightly wider mouth, and it emptied faster when it chugged.

Never mind.  I should've used another example, but I would probably be wrong with that, too.  Like 2-litre bottle mosquito traps, or growing potatoes in a barrel.

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## WilliamAK

Thank you KYRatShooter!
This thread is exactly what I was looking for, and the reason I joined this forum.
I like doing things myself, and I like saving money.
I would love to own a pair of Filson tin pants, or tin chaps, but I will not spend that much money on something I can replicate myself. I did just buy a used Filson Mackinaw though, because I don't have a sewing machine, yet.
Having done a lot of plumbing, I am quite familiar with wax bowl rings. I suppose it would be better to use a new ring, and not one scraped off an old removed toilet. Having removed some pretty old toilets, I can attest that the wax keeps its consistency over time.
I happen to have on hand some neatsfoot oil. It is an animal product and not a plant product. It could be quite different than boiled linsead oil and an unsuitable alternative, or it could ruin the garment I'm trying to improve, or it could work marvelously. 
Does anyone have experience using neatsfoot oil in this capacity? Do I have to go first? 
I live in a somewhat remote part of Alaska. We are not on the road system. Pretty much everything is more expensive because it has to be shipped in. That is why I would like to use the neatsfoot oil I have. 
This summer I plan on spending a lot of time on a hill that some consider to be a mountain, developing a new rout to the top. I'll be doing a lot of bushwhacking in what will at times be wet dense brush. A good pair of tin pants will serve me well.

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## kyratshooter

Sure!  You can use anything you want to, mix it in any ratio you want to and apply it any way you want to.

It just won't work.

There is a concept that so many people just do not understand, and that is that just because you have one thing, and not the proper ingredients, it does not mean that "it simply has to work".

If you are in the middle of nowhere, with no access to anything, a tin of linseed oil should be as easy to acquire as a commode gasket.  Probably the same store.

If you can not afford a tin of linseed oil you have picked the wrong profession as a means of support.

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## WilliamAK

Thanks for the response.
Certainly you wouldn't say,



> It just won't work.


Unless you tried it and know for sure that it won't work.
Just like you certainly wouldn't say that something would work unless you tried it and know for sure that it does work.
Did you try it?

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## WilliamAK

> a tin of linseed oil should be as easy to acquire as a commode gasket.  Probably the same store.


I acquired the "commode gasket" from my tote of plumbing stuff. I could drive the 15 miles (30 miles round trip) to the other end of the road where there is a hardware store, and see if they have linseed oil (they probably do) or I could order it from Amazon. Either way, that's not using what I have, but it is spending more money.

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## WilliamAK

After a little research, the big difference I can find between boiled linseed oil and neatsfoot oil is that boiled linseed oil is a drying oil, while neatsfoot oil is not.
It seems that this would dramatically change the results of this recipe. The end result might be a more oily and less waxy cloth.

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## crashdive123

Use the recipe posted.  It works.  Changing it will not.  While some like to perform their own experiments, there really is no need to reinvent the wheel.  Krats process was developed over time and it works.

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## Rick

:munchies: This should be fun.

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## kyratshooter

> Did you try it?


You did not read post number one!  Go back to page one and read post #1.

"We don't need no stinkin' instructions!" does not apply here.  Go back and read the instructions or you will hurt yourself!  

Yep I tried it.  

I turned a Banana Republic yuppie chore coat into something that is usable in the field.  It is hanging on the rack by the front door and has been in use for a couple of years now, since back when I first posted the recipe. Long enough for the smell of the linseed oil to have worn off.

I did a Sportsman's Guide safari jacket but I seldom wear it because is makes me look like something off Wild Kingdom and gives me the uncontrollable urge to carry my Enfield and wear a flap holster for my revolver.

I did a boonie hat using beeswax instead of the commode ring and it makes my head sweat and it attracts bees.

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## WilliamAK

> You did not read post number one!  Go back to page one and read post #1.
> 
> "We don't need no stinkin' instructions!" does not apply here.  Go back and read the instructions or you will hurt yourself!  
> 
> Yep I tried it.  
> 
> I turned a Banana Republic yuppie chore coat into something that is usable in the field.  It is hanging on the rack by the front door and has been in use for a couple of years now, since back when I first posted the recipe. Long enough for the smell of the linseed oil to have worn off.
> 
> I did a Sportsman's Guide safari jacket but I seldom wear it because is makes me look like something off Wild Kingdom and gives me the uncontrollable urge to carry my Enfield and wear a flap holster for my revolver.
> ...


I did read post number one! I read it a couple of times. I even copied it and saved it so I could read it again in the future.
You said "It just won't work." Referring to any variation on your recipe, and specifically my simple question of "Does anyone have experience using neatsfoot oil in this capacity?"
In your post number one, you seemed to really dislike it when people would say that something would work when in reality they never tried it and it in fact didn't work. So surely you dislike it when someone says that something doesn't work when in reality they haven't even tried it.
My question to you was have you tried it, neatsfoot oil that is? 
You could have simply said "I tried that stuff but it doesn't work." or "I haven't tried that stuff but I doubt it would work" or, you could give me a detailed explanation as to why it wouldn't work. Or, if you don't "...have experience using neatsfoot oil in this capacity", you could have ignored the question.

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## WilliamAK

Here is some good reading on why linseed oil would work so well for this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linseed_oil

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## pete lynch

Tick tock....

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## crashdive123

There is but one thing left to do.  Try it and report back on your results.

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## Rick

I knew this was gonna be good. I need more popcorn. Who knew linseed oil was edible and who was the first guy that tried it? How hungry would you have to be to try it?

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## kyratshooter

It must be really bad in Alaska this winter!  Reverse circular logic is in full swing.

And you are completely correct that I should have ignored your initial post, you are simply an argument looking for a place to happen.

William old boy there were a lot of combinations I did not try while experimenting.

I did not try raw buggers and gasoline, or lard and the liquid drained out of wet wipe boxes, feel free to deal with those during your long boring darkness of Alaskan winter and get back to us after a couple months of effort.

There were some more combinations I did try and they did not work, so using the decades of dealing with morons which makes up my life experience I decided not to post the failures so they would not be confused with the successes.

It is your time and effort so have at it!  You can also ignore the cautions about use of the double boiler if you feel they do not apply to you.   

And even if neetsfoot oil does magically work, though it is not a component used by any of the manufacturers that offer tin cloth, here in the lower 48 states it is 8x-10x the price of linseed oil which does work and does not require several months of experimenting to verify the results.  Many combinations of chemical will look great after a week but rot the fabric after a few months.

While we are waiting I will go and try to make some cornbread out of tofu which I am told tastes exactly the same, and see if the caution on the pump that says I should not use diesel in my Jeep is valid if all I have is diesel and it "just has to work".

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## WilliamAK

> It must be really bad in Alaska this winter!  Reverse circular logic is in full swing.
> 
> And you are completely correct that I should have ignored your initial post, you are simply an argument looking for a place to happen.
> 
> William old boy there were a lot of combinations I did not try while experimenting.
> 
> I did not try raw buggers and gasoline, or lard and the liquid drained out of wet wipe boxes, feel free to deal with those during your long boring darkness of Alaskan winter and get back to us after a couple months of effort.
> 
> There were some more combinations I did try and they did not work, so using the decades of dealing with morons which makes up my life experience I decided not to post the failures so they would not be confused with the successes.
> ...


I assumed you went through some trial and error, and that you used a few different combinations that didn't work.
I also assumed that you were somewhat of a teacher and experimenter. I also thought that you were someone that would want to understand why something would or wouldn't work, and wouldn't mind passing on your understanding.
Now it seems that you just want people to blindly accept every word you write as the gospel truth, and consider you the final authority on every subject you write about. 
I started off being very impressed and thankful for your recipe. I feel differently now.
Neatsfoot oil isn't a component used by any of the manufactures? Are toilet wax rings?
From what I have read about linseed oil, I can see why it would work so much better than neatsfoot oil, or probably any other oil. As for cost, I ordered a gallon of linseed oil a few days ago, it's not any cheaper than neatsfoot oil. Shipping costs a lot out here.
I would be happy to talk with you about fuels in internal combustion motors, and I won't insult you for asking questions.

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## JohnLeePettimore

Hey Rick.  Do you have one of those 50# bags of popcorn, like you can get at Sam's Club/Costco?  You might need it.

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## Rick



----------


## edr730

If you have a paint brush with linseed oil on it and you don't clean it, it's gunna get hard as a rock. If you do the same with neatsfoot oil, it stays nice and soft and won't dry out. If you have linseed oil on a rag, it too will get hard and stiff. If you add a toilet bowl ring, it's not going to get so stiff. If you add the drying agent, it drys faster. The combinations are somewhat unknowns until experimentation, hence the recipe. 
If you enjoyed experimenting and you started with oils with similar drying characteristics of linseed oil such as tung oil or maybe even varnish or polyurathane you may get similar results. If you added an emulsifier such as lecithin, added water and used a blender you may end up with a usable cream. Even if you fill a five gallon bucket full of water and put some oil on top and dunk a rag in there and slosh it around you'll find it will be evenly covered with oil when it drys. 
It's not rocket science. You'll end up with an oiled cloth no matter what you do. It's just whether or not you're satisfied with it's dryness, flexibility and waterproof properties. Kyrat has stated that he questioned the advice he originally received and he is quite happy with a method of his own. 
As a side note: just keep in mind that linseed oiled rags tossed in a pile always catch on fire in time. It's kind of special that way. Also, linseed oil is oil from flax seed.

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## WilliamAK

image.jpg
I was at the other end of the highway today so I stopped in at the hardware store to see how much boiled linseed oil cost. $38 per gallon. What I ordered on Amazon was a bit less expensive.
Imagine if neatsfoot oil was "8x-10x the price".

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## JohnLeePettimore

> Attachment 11882
> I was at the other end of the highway today so I stopped in at the hardware store to see how much boiled linseed oil cost. $38 per gallon. What I ordered on Amazon was a bit less expensive.
> Imagine if neatsfoot oil was "8x-10x the price".


Shop somewhere else.  It's around $25/gallon at Lowe's.  Walmart has quarts for $7.

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## WilliamAK

> Shop somewhere else.  It's around $25/gallon at Lowe's.  Walmart has quarts for $7.


I can buy it from that one and only hardware store, or I can order it online. 
I ordered some from Amazon, it was $32 for a gallon. 
I didn't check at Walmart.com.

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## Dc0341

Kyratshooter, I just bought everything I need to give your tin cloth recipe a shot. I'm doing a pair of denim jeans to start with. I want them to be waterproof enough that I can walk through deep puddles without worrying about them getting damp. Would you recommend applying some of the mixture to the inside of the pant legs, or will applying it to the outside be good enough. Thank you

----------

