# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Hunting & Trapping >  trophy hunters

## wildWoman

Hi again to those who still know me - hope everything's fine in your neck of the woods or city! Everything's okay here, except for a crazy amount of mosquitoes this year.

I'm currently writing a thriller that features an illegal bear trophy hunt as a side plot, and thought you guys might be able to come up with some insight into the motivation of people who trophy hunt. I guess for illegal trophy hunts a criminal mindset is part of the mix, but I would think the basic interest would be similar to legal trophy hunters.

Is it an attraction to danger, is there a thrill or enjoyment in killing a large animal? Is it an adrenaline rush that's impossible to get any other way?

****I do not want to start a huge discussion about trophy hunting here. Those who remember me will have an idea what my views on this are. I'm merely trying to portray the characters in my book as real people.
FYI, we hunt for meat and live in a fly-in location in northwestern Canada. I make my living as a freelance writer.****

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## intothenew

Testosterone, tongue in cheek.

Type A, must have the recognition, the prestige.

A subset of type A is the challenge, the challenge being extremely proficient with a weapon.

A biological/natural obsession/curiosity of the particular creature.

Burnout on just whacking and stacking.

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## BENESSE

Check out Teddy Roosevelt. Dr. Jekyll & Mr Hyde when it came to wildlife and wilderness/national parks preservation.

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## hunter63

From the beginning of time, the best hunters, prospered, were important, got the best females, ate better and were the in the upper class.
Involves the risk, difficulty, skill, physical prowess......bragging rights.

Hunting trophies has evolved and is the same as.... to:.... making the most money, being the best race car driver, doing the most dangerous jobs, being the "first' at anything,

While seemly a outdated and barbarous way of life, the fact is man kind wouldn't have evolved much, if they just layed around and said......Ahw, that's good enough........No need wheel, too much work.

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## BENESSE

It's smoke all and mirrors of being a BMOC. Shooting an elephant doesn't require courage or good marksmanship but it sure sounds impressive to that ever shrinking and distorted mindset of people who'd pee in their pants if someone challenged them to a kick boxing match in a ring.

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## crashdive123

You've been missed young lady.  Good luck with your book!  Here are a few threads where discussions have taken place in the past on the topic.


http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...trophy+hunting

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...trophy+hunting

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...trophy+hunting

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...trophy+hunting

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...trophy+hunting

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...trophy+hunting

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...trophy+hunting

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## Rick

You surely have any number of hunters in your area that have trophies mounted for display. Probably some of your friends. Ask them why they display the heads. You should be able to extrapolate some character traits common among them. Talk to some taxidermists and ask them what kind of customers they have. Again, I assume you know one or two in your area. Not having done any of the above I can't help you other than offer some suggestions of where to turn.

Welcome back and good luck on the book.

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## wildWoman

Thanks, those are some really good points ... weapons, of course! That would be another big interest.

Thanks so much for digging up all those threads, Crash - duh, the search function  :Blush:  

Hi Rick, I just know meat hunters who see about as much point in mounting their kill as city folks would with the carcass of their barbeque chicken. But yes, there is a former guide I can ask and also check assorted forums  :Smile:  It won't be just based on the answers from here!

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## crashdive123

Since Sourdough guided so many hunts over the years, he may be able to offer some insight from the perspective of a client paying big $$$$ for the hunt.

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## Winter

> Check out Teddy Roosevelt. Dr. Jekyll & Mr Hyde when it came to wildlife and wilderness/national parks preservation.


 He loved the outdoors and hunting so much that he preserved areas so these pastimes could survive.

Many people can't wrap their heads around the fact that elephant hunting provides the money to save elephants, feed whole villages, and provide health care to same villages.

Hunters licenses provide the funds for huge wild areas to exist and for game management.

I've never met a pure "trophy" hunter. 

I should have steered clear of the thread.

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## Sparky93

> He loved the outdoors and hunting so much that he preserved areas so these pastimes could survive.
> 
> Many people can't wrap their heads around the fact that elephant hunting provides the money to save elephants, feed whole villages, and provide health care to same villages.
> 
> Hunters licenses provide the funds for huge wild areas to exist and for game management.
> 
> I've never met a pure "trophy" hunter. 
> 
> I should have steered clear of the thread.


You beet me to it, my sentiments exactly. I think they also only hunt the management animals in this case as well, but I am not for sure...

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## Rick

From what I've read on the subject Winter appears to be correct. Poaching, as opposed to trophy hunting, is what threatens large game species in Africa. Opinions aside. 

Trophy hunting where only the horns/antlers are taken, for example, is prevalent leaving the full carcass behind. Sort of like scalping.

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## ClayPick

In my neck of the woods Black Bear trophy collecting is all about setting out bait and bragging about it. Either that or selling it off to the highest bidder.

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## Rick

I suppose, too, there are those that collect parts of the animals that are used in "medicinal" concoctions. Big money in that.

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## kyratshooter

Truphy hunters kill selectively by the rules.  By that I mean that they kill animals tha meet certain standards and refuse to kill anything beheath those standards.

Poachers kill for profit and do so outside the legal boundries.  While some "poachers" kill out of season game for food they are not in the same class as the ones that kill for profit.  Trading game meat for drugs has become a big problem in the southeast. 

That is your deviding line; 
pays fees-follows rules=legal hunter 
does not pay fees, does not follow rules=illigal poacher 

Back when the WMA was being set up in this area there was a code.  If a warden caught someone with one out of season rabbit or squirrel he let them go, they were hunting for food.  If he caught them with more than one they were hunting for sport and got a citation.  

Wildwoman, you will find that poachers for profit are not very well respected in any area they frequent.  Most are reguared as the scum of the woodcraft world.  Please do your research thoroughly and do not use poaching as a general term for all hunting.  There are millions of us out there paying our fees and following the rules.  Past that, if someone wants to pass up shots at 50 deer to get the one single "trophy" he wants that is his business as long as he eats what he kills.

I have heard of elephant kills feeding whole tribes for weeks.

Even grog the caveman picked specific animals out of the heard, young, stragglers, easuiest to kill.  The difference between them and us is they did not necessarily want an old tough bull, but there is evidence they placed "trophy skulls" in prominant places in their dwellings.

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## wildWoman

@kyratshooter - no worries; as I mentioned, we hunt our own meat. But since the novel is set out in the woods and needs some bad guys, somebody will have to be "it". There's actually a number of "its": also a pilot with a gambling habit, a hiker gone missing, ineffective cops and a killer, apart from the bear poachers.
I just want to be sure to understand what the attraction is in shooting trophies, since it's a totally foreign concept to me and poachers presumably get some sort of enjoyment out of what they're doing. Why are they poaching and not dealing drugs or robbing banks, for instance? If I have no clue what motivates the characters in my book, it doesn't read true. And I don't want to write a book that sucks.

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## kyratshooter

They are just like any other theaves, degenerates or scum, they just happen to be dealing with wildlife. 

I delt with all kinds of perverted minds while I was working in the detention system.  Yes, we had "poachers" too.  Rest assured, if you are normal you will never understand their minds, and you would not want too!  Of course there is a difference between the scumm that illigally shoot a deer every couple of weeks and a "trophy poacher".

If you are dealing with a trophy hunter that is in quest of his quarry illigally I would place that in the arena of a meglamaniac, narcisistic, sociopath who feels the rules should not apply to him.  Trophy hunting is expensive, and bribing a guide to break the law and support such a hunt would be even more expensive.  

I would make this character a rich, powerful, narcisistic former PITA or Greenpeace executive, for whom laws have no meaning.  A rogue ecoterrorist. 

That would be a real twist.

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## hunter63

Also be aware that trophy hunters aren't just in the wild life world......It just different trophies....mind set is the same.

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## BENESSE

> I would make this character a rich, powerful, narcisistic former PITA or Greenpeace executive, for whom laws have no meaning. * A rogue ecoterrorist. 
> *
> That would be a real twist.


I would think a rogue ecoterrorist wouldn't do a 180° but rather cross the line into serrially killing the poachers and making it look like the hunted animals did it.
But then, who can predict rogue behavior?

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## karatediver

I've never met a pure trophy hunter.  I have met lots of hunters that have animals mounted and displayed on their walls but they were from hunts that included using the meat of the animal or they were managment hunts used to manage game populations for animals such as predators that could not be eaten.  Population management hunts are not only legal but necessary in many places.  I shoot coyotes because too many of them  around and they start to go after the easier food such as newly born calves we are trying to raise.  If I save the hide and tan it does that make it a trophy hunt?  Hardly.   State wildlife managers limit the numbers of animals that can be taken like bears.  While the number taken is limited they don't want it being zero because an over population results in younger animals being pushed into more populated areas where they cause problems.  It's all about carrying capacity.

Your poacher is much more likely to shoot and take a piece as a trophy while leaving the rest of the animal to lay and not your legal hunter.

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## Rick

I did have my first deer mounted and it's on the wall in my den. I didn't find nearly as difficult as most folks claim it to be. He was walking across an open field at the time. 

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## wildWoman

> If you are dealing with a trophy hunter that is in quest of his quarry illigally I would place that in the arena of a meglamaniac, narcisistic, sociopath who feels the rules should not apply to him.


Yeah, you nailed it right there IMO. 
The high-end trophy poachers seem to have a lot of money. Some years ago,  people were arrested who organized and participated in illegal hunts via helicopter in Quebec. Game laws are fairly impossible to enforce in most regions of Canada.

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## Winnie

Don't have much to add to the thread, but welcome back!! It's great to see you.

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## Sarge47

> ...I make my living as a freelance writer.****


Welcome to the forum...wait...you've been here before?  Wild Woman who?   :Innocent:  

Anyway, good luck with the book WW, my son just sold his 1st book "Smell of the dead," about Zombies on Mt. Everest.  His goal is to become a full-time free-lance writer as well.     :Cool2:

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## wildWoman

Thanks Winnie and Sarge! Like a bad penny, I keep turning up again now and then.
Sarge, good for your son! The book market is pretty tough to crack, so way to go. If he wants to make more money writing, magazine articles and accompanying pictures are a good way to go. Photos usually have to be an average file size of 6MB for most magazines. Travel mags are a good place to sell outdoorsy topics, and he can sell the same article in Britain as in the States since the publishers buy (usually!) only the North American OR British rights.[/off topic]

About trophies: so why do people take a trophy from a kill with them and mount it in their house? Is it sort of comparable to taking a picture and putting that on the wall, as  a memory? Is there a feeling of victory over the animal?

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## Sarge47

> Thanks Winnie and Sarge! Like a bad penny, I keep turning up again now and then.
> Sarge, good for your son! The book market is pretty tough to crack, so way to go. If he wants to make more money writing, magazine articles and accompanying pictures are a good way to go. Photos usually have to be an average file size of 6MB for most magazines. Travel mags are a good place to sell outdoorsy topics, and he can sell the same article in Britain as in the States since the publishers buy (usually!) only the North American OR British rights.


He's already had a short story printed in an anthology (Grindhouse) that's being sold on Amazon as we speak, but he did it to get a story published with his by-line.  He's made a lot of friends who are professional writers, and he's already been paid for a short-short "blog-story" for one of his friends.  He's been given much professional advice, and I'm very proud of him of course!     :Balloon:

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## BENESSE

> About trophies: so why do people take a trophy from a kill with them and mount it in their house? Is it sort of comparable to taking a picture and putting that on the wall, as  a memory? Is there a feeling of victory over the animal?


I honestly think it's more about trying to impress anyone who happens to lay eyes on their mounted kill. They don't give a flying flick about the animal itself, only the "specimen" and the message it conveys to others.
One would have to be pretty demented to feel victory over a dumb animal...either that, or their IQ has to be lower than the animal's in order to think they "outsmarted it, what with all the firepower, scopes, night vision, hunting blinds, tree stands, scent eliminators and god knows what else.
Note to all who tend to take a topic like this off rails: _I'm only addressing the OP, nothing more._ OK?

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## Old GI

I used to hunt trophies quite often.  Not  much success; only got a few sport parachuting trophies and one for worst hole in a golf tournament.  My Game Warden now tells me the other kinds of trophies from my misspent youth are definitely out of season ------- ouch, Honey, that hurts!!!!!!

Oh you mean big furry trophies; nevermind.

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## intothenew

To call most, if not all, animals dumb is misinformed.

To hunt a mature individual, for days/weeks/months/even years, is one of the most intimate and emotional things a person can do with their clothes on.

To face a bruin with a stick and string, close enough to smell, and with confidence, is still an extremely tense circumstance.

It falls on many deaf ears, but a shrine to both hunter and hunted can be a tribute to the prowess of both.

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## BENESSE

> To call most, if not all, animals dumb is misinformed.
> 
> To hunt a mature individual, for days/weeks/months/even years, is one of the most intimate and emotional things a person can do with their clothes on.
> 
> To face a bruin with a stick and string, close enough to smell, and with confidence, is still an extremely tense circumstance.
> 
> *It falls on many deaf ears, but a shrine to both hunter and hunted can be a tribute to the prowess of both*.


That may be true and as spiritual as the experience can be (I've watched many a National Geographics), it's not the type of "hunter" the op is talking about.

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## intothenew

I took the OP as looking for insight into the trophy hunting mindset, legal or illegal, ethical or unethical, spiritual or demonic.

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## kyratshooter

> what with all the firepower, scopes, night vision, hunting blinds, tree stands, scent eliminators and god knows what else.
> Note to all who tend to take a topic like this off rails: _I'm only addressing the OP, nothing more._ OK?


Ms B that stuff is just what we use to get the sensory input at the "almost even" mark.  It would take 30 power multiplied UV and IR vision, amplified hearing and some kind of device to increase olifactory senses, combined with heat seeking bullets to have an advantage.  Plus they have the bugs and snakes on their side!

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## wildWoman

> I honestly think it's more about trying to impress anyone who happens to lay eyes on their mounted kill. They don't give a flying flick about the animal itself, only the "specimen" and the message it conveys to others.
> One would have to be pretty demented to feel victory over a dumb animal...either that, or their IQ has to be lower than the animal's in order to think they "outsmarted it, what with all the firepower, scopes, night vision, hunting blinds, tree stands, scent eliminators and god knows what else.


Well, that's the outside view of non-(trophy) hunters, but I need to get at it from the inside. As intothenew says, I'm trying to understand the mindset of trophy hunters without putting any value on it.

So bragging rights, okay. And maybe the feeling that it was difficult and dangerous (in case of bears) to do, hence the need for all the equipment - and if was easy, no reason to brag about it.
But I don't think trophy hunters don't care about the animal - I mean, obviously not in the way that they'd rather see it alive than on their wall, but they must be fascinated by something about it. And find it beautiful (who'd put something ugly up in their house). Maybe wanting to "own" it?

@intothenew, how would a trophy be a shrine to the prowess of the animal? Just because of the memories attached to the hunt or do you feel something of the "essence" of the animal is still there, even though it's dead and stuffed?

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## hunter63

It's obvious that there are strong opinions expressed by those that don't hunt, and are responding from their heart......Although noble, not the mindset of any hunter, and certainly not an illegal trophy hunter.....So until you actually talk to an illegal trophy hunter.....have know a few in my day.....your are just left with opinions.....and only opinions.

Said hunter (used loosely) was a braggart, PITA and general a$$ whole, the fact remains he still was held in high regard by many....wrong, I suppose.....but still a fact.

So until you can get passed opinions and be a writer of facts, it will be fiction of personnel kind.

Hang in there wildwomen, you may get there, but it will be hard, as most things of value are.

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## intothenew

I must give a loose ad lib from Winnie the Pooh.

Pooh, when ask just what the best thing about honey is responded;

"It's that moment when you know you've got it. It's just before your tongue touches the magic elixir."


That statement, to me, has profound implications in this context. The trophy takes you back to that point, just when you knew you had it. The culmination of emotions, life vs death, weapon proficiency, the knowledge gain till then, the bushcraft and associated comforts and discomforts, all come together at that one point in time.

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## hunter63

Well said.........

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## kyratshooter

Goes back to that question "What were you thinking when you pulled the trigger?"

During the current "Racoon War of 2012" I can attest that my thought is normally "Got you, you little SOB!  Now I can go to bed."

Wild woman, I would like to recommend a movie for you.

The Ghost in the Darkness
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116409/

These men are hunting dangerous game that is fighting back.  The movie is filled with moral and psychological insight.  It is a screenplay about a true story.

In one scene a group of Masi warriors are preparing for the hunt by dancing and telling stories through song, as Michael Douglas puts it "to make each other brave".  In those days a Masi was not a warrior and able to marry until he had killed a male lion.  One had to take the trophy to be considered a man, it was a rite of passage.

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## Winter

> To call most, if not all, animals dumb is misinformed.
> 
> To hunt a mature individual, for days/weeks/months/even years, is one of the most intimate and emotional things a person can do with their clothes on.
> 
> To face a bruin with a stick and string, close enough to smell, and with confidence, is still an extremely tense circumstance.
> 
> It falls on many deaf ears, but a shrine to both hunter and hunted can be a tribute to the prowess of both.






> It's obvious that there are strong opinions expressed by those that don't hunt, and are responding from their heart......Although noble, not the mindset of any hunter, and certainly not an illegal trophy hunter.....So until you actually talk to an illegal trophy hunter.....have know a few in my day.....your are just left with opinions.....and only opinions.
> 
> Said hunter (used loosely) was a braggart, PITA and general a$$ whole, the fact remains he still was held in high regard by many....wrong, I suppose.....but still a fact.
> 
> So until you can get passed opinions and be a writer of facts, it will be fiction of personnel kind.
> 
> Hang in there wildwomen, you may get there, but it will be hard, as most things of value are.



These are 2 of the best posts I've seen on WSF.

I don't see a huge difference between a BMW and a trophy. Anybody with a yacht or $600 handbag is displaying trophies.

That would make the issue vanity.

There's a local guy, Kurt Keulh (SIC?) Pronounced "cool" who has quite a few B&C longbow records. He's a schoolteacher in the winter and a smoke-jumper in the summer. He eats the meat, and does full skins with the bear. He calls himself a trophy hunter. He wants the biggest bear ever taken with a longbow.

He's not some narcissistic nutjob. 

I know another guy, who will remain nameless. He is the best deer hunter around. Fills 6 tags a yr plus some. He poaches.

He does not save the hide. He saves the meat.

His opinion on deer hunting is; "I don't hunt, I'm at war with the deer."

I've never in my life met a killer of animals that wasted the animals.

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## Rick

> I don't see a huge difference between a BMW and a trophy. Anybody with a yacht or $600 handbag is displaying trophies.




I have to think on that. On one hand I understand completely where you are coming from and it's a good analogy. On the other, if you've done your homework and you think the best value for your money is a BMW or your lifestyle is such that the BMW is the Ford Taurus of your circle then it becomes a measure of perspective. If you have the money and like the open water then why not have a yacht? 

I suppose, too, that trophy hunting could be viewed as a measure of perspective as well. Except animals are a finite commodity and yachts aren't. When the buffalo are gone they are gone. And what if you are raised in that environment? I tend to think that attitude is taught or learned. Not something genetic. I don't personally know any trophy hunters either so this is just opinion on my part. 

Certainly agree with the two quotes you posted. Both were very good.

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## wildWoman

Really good insights here!




> In one scene a group of Masi warriors are preparing for the hunt by dancing and telling stories through song, as Michael Douglas puts it "to make each other brave".  In those days a Masi was not a warrior and able to marry until he had killed a male lion.  One had to take the trophy to be considered a man, it was a rite of passage.


So do you think that still carries over to today and applies in some form to Western trophy hunter - that having to prove yourself plays into it?
But then why go for the largest bears, the moose with the biggest antlers? 
Thanks for the movie link! 

@ Winter - "I am at war with deer", that's interesting. I guess the same would apply to wolf hunters, not so sure about bear hunters ... there it seems to be more a mix of admiration and fear involved than hatred.
BTW, legal trophy hunters up in my area in many cases do just come for the trophy and are not interested in the meat. I know somebody who used to do expediting for an outfitter. The guys in camp ate ground beef and pork sausages, with the odd top notch cut of game thrown in, and the majority of meat from their kills was shipped back to town where it was given away to friends of the outfitter and old people in town - since it would be a criminal offense to let it rot in the bush. In the old days they did just that.

@ Hunter - To me, the difference between things you can buy (such as cars) and trophy animals is that the animal needs to be killed first to become a trophy. So a car, handbag, whatever doesn't get transformed into something else as a living creature does when it dies. 
I guess what both forms of trophies have in common is ownership - so the trophy hunter turns a free living animal into a dead thing that can be owned? Showing "I have the power to do this".

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## hunter63

> From the beginning of time, the best hunters, prospered, were important, got the best females, ate better and were the in the upper class.
> Involves the risk, difficulty, skill, physical prowess......bragging rights.
> 
> Hunting trophies has evolved and is the same as.... to:.... making the most money, being the best race car driver, doing the most dangerous jobs, being the "first' at anything,
> 
> While seemly a outdated and barbarous way of life, the fact is man kind wouldn't have evolved much, if they just layed around and said......Ahw, that's good enough........No need wheel, too much work.





> Also be aware that trophy hunters aren't just in the wild life world......It just different trophies....mind set is the same.





> I have to think on that. On one hand I understand completely where you are coming from and it's a good analogy. On the other, if you've done your homework and you think the best value for your money is a BMW or your lifestyle is such that the BMW is the Ford Taurus of your circle then it becomes a measure of perspective. If you have the money and like the open water then why not have a yacht? 
> 
> I suppose, too, that trophy hunting could be viewed as a measure of perspective as well. Except animals are a finite commodity and yachts aren't. When the buffalo are gone they are gone. And what if you are raised in that environment? I tend to think that attitude is taught or learned. Not something genetic. I don't personally know any trophy hunters either so this is just opinion on my part. 
> 
> Certainly agree with the two quotes you posted. Both were very good.





> These are 2 of the best posts I've seen on WSF.
> 
> I don't see a huge difference between a BMW and a trophy. Anybody with a yacht or $600 handbag is displaying trophies.
> 
> That would make the issue vanity.
> 
> There's a local guy, Kurt Keulh (SIC?) Pronounced "cool" who has quite a few B&C longbow records. He's a schoolteacher in the winter and a smoke-jumper in the summer. He eats the meat, and does full skins with the bear. He calls himself a trophy hunter. He wants the biggest bear ever taken with a longbow.
> 
> He's not some narcissistic nutjob. 
> ...


The BMW example belongs to Winter, but this was what i was trying to say......just to clear that up.

And Rick, animals are a finite prize I guess, deer not being a good example, as they are considered a pest in some places, compensation to farmers is given.


To me the big difference is strictly personnel.......You have made a desision to take a life, one which you perpare for, and have to live with... as soon as the bullet, arrow, spear, rock.........missile leaves you control.....those moments will be carved into your mind forever, good or bad......Just a little bit bigger deal that say signing on the line for a BMW.

The older I get, the desire to 'put out that light' gets less and less, or seems so....and I am lulled into a semi hunter mind set........TILL the 30 pointer shows up, then it's game on.

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## crashdive123

Wild Woman - I have hunted, but am not a hunter so can offer no insight into the why's of the subject other than speculation.  It may be worth while contacting these folks to gain some perspective.  http://trophyhuntermag.com/

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## Rick

As I said, I get it completely and I thought it was a good analogy. I just have mixed thoughts on the analogy. I certainly don't support poaching and support poaching for only trophy even less. Winter just offered up some food for thought and it got my wheels turning. Not always a good thing, I know.

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## Old Professor

Wildwoman.  I have been a hunter for more than sixty years and have taught hunter safety for fifty years. In my experience, the word "Trophy" means different things to different people. To a begining hunter a small four point buck is a "Trophy". For some a "Trophy is dependant on what method was used to take that animal. I have a small five point rack that I value because it came from my first archery kill. Likewise, a black bear head mount of my ninth bear kill because the 'Trophy" was taken with a longbow. To many of us, a "Trophy" has special meanig for us, regardless of its size.  Now I understand that is not what you are refering to for your story character. I believe that type of person wants a "Trophy" as a sign of status. Some will purchase said "Trophy" from a poacher and pass it off as something that they personally killed.  I think another way to look at this is the personality characteristics (flaws) of men and women who marry a "Trophy Spouse". Why do they do that? -- to advance their social status! All too often, in those marriages, they do not really love the spouse, they simply want to impress others with their "catch".  In my opinion, that is a serious personallity flaw and a sign of an immature, self-centered individual with poor ethics and moral values. Same thing with the type of animal  trophy hunter you appear to be creating as a character in your story.

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## wildWoman

> The older I get, the desire to 'put out that light' gets less and less, or seems so....


Yeah, that's an interesting phenomena. I know that from both trappers and hunters.

@Crash - thanks for the link, that's a good idea!

@Old Prof - the trophy wife came to my mind too ... that's interesting what you say about certain animals having more significance and that being the reason why you'd want to have them mounted.

Feelings of sadness or regret don't seem to enter into this at all, it sounds like?

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## Sourdough

> Feelings of sadness or regret don't seem to enter into this at all, it sounds like?



Not true, especially not true with European Hunters. They have reverence for the animal. They have a blessing/ritual/prayer they offer to the death of the animal. I will grant you that many American Trophy Hunters do lack sadness and regret. (Note to our newer forum members: I am a retired Professional Alaskan Hunting Guide, with 34 years in the business).

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## Winter

When I lack reverence for the game, I'll stop hunting.

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## wildWoman

Okay, so how does that work in a trophy hunter's mind (and I mean somebody who really just wants the trophy, not the meat) - they revere the animal, have no actual use for it, but kill it although they revere it in order to hang it on their wall? 

@ Sourdough: what, in your experience with North American trophy hunters, is a common motivator for them? Particulary when it comes to bears?

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## Winter

Well, here, it's illegal to waste the meat of game animals.

Caribou and elk hunters are required, if it takes two trips, to carry the meat out first and the hide and antlers second.

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## Rick

Winter - When you guys take a moose or elk and you have to hoss it out some distance how do you keep bear or wolves from claiming the parts left behind? I'm assuming your are packing meat out instead of on ATV or snow machine. There's just not a lot of trees in AK to hang the meat from, depending on where you are, and once you field dress it the smell is in the air. I've never figured out how the meat waiting for the second or third trip is safe.

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## wildWoman

> Winter - When you guys take a moose or elk and you have to hoss it out some distance how do you keep bear or wolves from claiming the parts left behind?


I don't know how it works for Winter, but we've rarely had problems with that. If we have to do a couple trips, either one of us stays behind with the meat or we leave people-smelly shirts and jackets on the meat. Where we live, there aren't herds of bears and wolves milling around just off in the bushes.
One time on a mountain goat hunt, a grizzly came running pretty much at the sound of the shot, which made for record time in goat field dressing. But we're usually done with with our moose in a matter of hours.

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## Winter

Not an issue for me since we have no moose, caribou, or elk anywhere near me.

We do have endless trees here though.

I'm a good 1000 miles from caribou.

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## Rick

Thanks both of you. I would have thought that bear would have picked up the scent and been on the kill in no time. Slow bears I guess. Thanks!

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## wildWoman

> I would have thought that bear would have picked up the scent and been on the kill in no time. Slow bears I guess.


I think it's got more to do with all the people smells at the kill site. The majority of animals is very careful when it comes to moving in on somebody else's kill - getting injured in a fight is something they need to avoid in order to survive. So while a bear or wolf may know that there is a fresh kill and that it seems awfully quiet, and the people smells are already a few hours old, they seem to rather wait another day or two before moving in on it (basically challenging you). And by then, you'd normally be done with carrying the meat out.

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