# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  "Alone."

## Sarge47

Enter the History channel's latest brainless attempt at a survival show:  Alone.  10 guys who are isolated from each other and dropped off at different places at Vancouver Island, completely isolated from each other and are considered very experienced outdoor experts.  they get to keep their clothes and judging from how cold it gets they're going to need them.  They get to pick 10 items and the idea is that the last man standing will get the grand prize of $500,000!  I went to the History channel website and read the items list and bio for each person,  At least half of them took a bow with 6 arrows as one of their items.  They all took a ferro rod but hardly any of them could actually start a fire given the extreme wet conditions of Vancouver Island.  I don't know if these guys have been vetted or not to see if they actually have done what they claim but I suspect the youngest one, Sam Larson, lied to get on the show.  He's very immature and if it were up to me I'd slice him up for fish bait!  Anyway there are predators roaming the Island; bears, Cougars, and wolves, and these guys are completely alone, filming themselves.  After only the 1st night one of them, Josh, tapped out because two bears were coming right up to his lean-to and he feared for his life.  And, you guessed it, none of these guys thought to bring bear spray as one of their items.  Josh had a bow and six arrows but didn't nock a one.  I wonder if the producers are really watching these guys from hiding because, if not, and one of the contestants gets hurt or killed...well, all's I can say is that I do hope the producers liability insurance is paid up!.... :Sad:

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## Winter

I thought it was pretty interesting. I was pretty smug watching it since it's my environment but warmer and less rain.LOL

I was frankly amazed the one guy got a fire going with just sparks. 

I'll continue to watch it because I'm curious to know what these folks learning curve is. Shelter needs to be expanded to actual fencing to keep the bear away or limit their approaches. This guys really need to focus on the ocean as a food source. Most tasty vegetables are also near the beach. Trails encircle all islands is a series of three. One is the beach, one is just into the bush, and one is on the top of the first rise in terrain and/or crosshill 50-100 m off the beach. There's many trails but those are a constant.

The guy who started the fire is also the only one to procure food, so he's doing OK in my book. 

$500,000 is no joke. That is worth a great deal of risk. I would not be surprised if it took 6 months to a year to wind up the show. It appears each episode lasts till someone quits.

As far as survival shows go, I like it. No camera crews, no help, the player selects his kit.

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## Sarge47

The government will get at least half of that $500,000.  Turns out they do have bear spray.  I think that they may have been equipped with that and a 1st aid kit of some kind.  They lost another one tonight, scared of wolves.  I agree about the beach and the fence.  I wonder if they'll figure it out?... :Saddam:

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## Grizz123

I like it and after trying to start a fire under semi-humid conditions (nothing compared to what they are trying to do) I can say it is VERY difficult

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## canid

> Most tasty vegetables are also near the beach.


And in my experience most of the bears also. Really, continued harassment and making sure they never get any food off of you is the only solution I know that ends well for the bears.

I'll check out the show when I get the chance.

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## Sarge47

> I like it and after trying to start a fire under semi-humid conditions (nothing compared to what they are trying to do) I can say it is VERY difficult


All 10 of these guys were/are lauded as "experts."  Yet hardly any of them can start a fire in wet conditions?  Instead of just a ferro rod they might have considered a mag block.  It starts a fire so well under bad weather conditions that even the Air Force includes it in the pilot's survival vest.  Also a possible detriment to having bears visit your camp is to urinate all around it, marking that area as your own.  I saw a "Survivorman" episode where Les did that.  It can help.  Once they get a fire started they can make spears out of long branches and harden the tips in the fire.  Two "killers" in solo survival are "Fear and Loneliness."  Two men have tapped out so far, the 2nd one is, according to my wife, a seasoned outdoorsman who has authored books on the subject.  Another thought, one of these "experts" has already lost his ferro rod... :Confused1:    According to their list of 10 items everyone has chosen 550 cord so why not make a lanyard for the ferro rod and hang it around your neck?  The main gripe I have is limiting these guys to just 10 items.  Nobody would go into this type of locale with that little of gear normally.  Hooray for Discovery's producers who's survival experience is apparently limited to trying to survive a "Black Friday" crunch at their local Wally World!... :Whistling: 

p.s.:  Props to the guy who brought a canvas tarp and made the Tipi!... :Thumbup1:   And yes I'll keep watching, I'm a glutton for punishment.

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## kyratshooter

This is the first one I have had any interest in after the first episode.  Usually I sicken and change channels during episode #1.

It is amazing to see the big bad survivalist man cry because he is scared of the dark.

The cop and the hippie are already gone.  There will be another big exit at about day 7 for the ones that are not identifying food resources and/or are using raw water.  

We'll know the winners when they get past water and food supply and start building long term hard shelters and the tarps become shelter roofs rather than shelters.  Once they get to that point the only thing that would take them out is illness, injury or insanity.

Some of their levels of intolerance for being alone is amazing.  Perhaps it is just because I live alone and go for days without seeing another individual, but these guy are wimping out for lack of company after 3 days!

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## 1stimestar

Really?  At 3 days, I'm just getting settled in nicely.

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## Sarge47

I thought it might be more interesting to have caches of food, water, and extra gear buried on the island and each man has a compass and a map with the cache location marked.  If they can find it they can better their lot.  

Yes, Kyrat, I agree with you on the two that left.  I've oft-times heard it said that the two greatest enemies of solo survival are "fear & loneliness,"  these two proved that saying right.... :Smartass:

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## canid

> We'll know the winners when they get past water and food supply and start building long term hard shelters and the tarps become shelter roofs rather than shelters.


That's spot on thinking. If they're having substantial prowling bear problems, it might be at least as well to prioritize it further, so they manage to keep what food supply they can procure, while helping to nip a threat to it in the bud.

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## Winter

Canid, you are right about the bear on the beach, but, I don't think they really are on the beaches more than the bush. It's just that they are easier to see in the open. They will hang out at creeks where salmon spawn at the edge of salt and fresh water. Bear don't care for salt water in their mouths any more than humans do.

I missed last nights. I'll see if I can find it and watch it today.

1stimestar, hahaha, yeah.

I would dislike the loneliness a great deal. I'd have to make some sort of "Wilson" to talk to.

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## lfos847

Compared to most shows I am at least interested in this one. Looking at the list of what each man took it seems they may of had to choose from a set supply. I don't think I would want my choices limited to what some producer thinks I should have.  From reading their Bios, which sounds like they wrote them themselves, I would have expected more than I have seen so far. I thought I saw bear spray on the hip of one guy and am relieved that were supplied FAKs. It bothered me that it wasn't on any list.

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## Grizz123

I could nit-pick every little thing they've done but I prefer to watch and enjoy and sometimes learn from their experiences. Plus I haven't walked in their shoes as far as doing something like that. But I can tell you this, if I was invited to the show I would have 500,000 reasons to NOT tap out and that alone is enough for me to go hungry, thirsty, eat slugs, or just about anything else to win.

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## Sarge47

> I could nit-pick every little thing they've done but I prefer to watch and enjoy and sometimes learn from their experiences. Plus I haven't walked in their shoes as far as doing something like that. But I can tell you this, if I was invited to the show I would have 500,000 reasons to NOT tap out and that alone is enough for me to go hungry, thirsty, eat slugs, or just about anything else to win.


Actually, after "Uncle Sugar" gets through you'd only have about 250,000 reasons to stay on.  But why stop there?  You can apply to be on the next series on the History channel's web site.  You'd have the WSF members rooting for you all the way!... :Wavey:

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## Grizz123

> Actually, after "Uncle Sugar" gets through you'd only have about 250,000 reasons to stay on.  But why stop there?  You can apply to be on the next series on the History channel's web site.  You'd have the WSF members rooting for you all the way!...:wavy:


I live in NJ and own a business, I already give close to 50% when all taxes are combined so I'm used to it. But I don't get close to earning $500,000 yet...

Rooting for me??? You knuckleheads would be taking bets guessing which one is really me and busting my chops to no end, even after I won. Then you would be asking to borrow some money.   :saberbattle:   :Wink:

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## canid

Dang it, he's figured us out.

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## Sarge47

> Dang it, he's figured us out.


It was worth a shot!... :Smartass:

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## kyratshooter

I never could figure out the survival mentality that gripped about getting $250K because hey had to give $250K to the tax man.

It's still $250k you did not have when you got off the airplane!  

I never made $500K in one year in my whole life and would be glad to pay 50% taxes on it!

They will be "survivors" when they start viewing the animals they now fear as a food resource.

I say eat the bear and make a sleeping robe out of his hide, skin the wolf and make a coat out of him.  They should have brought bigger cooking pots!

Wolf makes a good meal!

Not to be "nit picking" but when you find out that you have set up camp 30 yards from the den of a she bear with cubs, *and you stay there* you have an outdoor knowledge shortfall going on.  You just do not do that!  If you do not want the cubs sleeping in your bed you better move.

I think that guy was just along for the trip and never intended to make it more than a day or possibly two if things were perfect.

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## Rick

I used to work with guys that would not work overtime because they had to pay more taxes. Well, yeah, that's sort of how it works. It was a bonanza for me though. I got all the overtime I wanted and then some.

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## Sarge47

> Not to be "nit picking" but when you find out that you have set up camp 30 yards from the den of a she bear with cubs, *and you stay there* you have an outdoor knowledge shortfall going on.  You just do not do that!  If you do not want the cubs sleeping in your bed you better move.
> 
> I think that guy was just along for the trip and never intended to make it more than a day or possibly two if things were perfect.


Yep!  That's my thinking also!... :Creepy:   Looks like we now have a new show we can comment on!... :Saddam:

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## hunter63

Saw the first episode, and the thought that struck me was that the first guy out was  a LEO that wasn't used to being without his weapon.
Haven't seen any of the others ...yet.

As far as being afraid of different animals......just brings to mind a old movie...."Wind Walker"...where an "dead"  warrior returns after defeating several threats....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windwalker_(film)

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## kyratshooter

We do for a few weeks anyway Sarge, then there are the reruns to dissect and the spin-offs so we could entertain ourselves for a long time with this one.

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## Catfish

> I used to work with guys that would not work overtime because they had to pay more taxes. Well, yeah, that's sort of how it works. It was a bonanza for me though. I got all the overtime I wanted and then some.


Years ago I worked (briefly) for a guy who told me he couldn't give me a pay raise because "You'd only have to pay more tax". Well gee, thanks for looking out for me.

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## kyratshooter

Speaking of work, I read all the bio information and packing lists and besides the uniformity of the lists I was also struck by a bit of personal uniformity.

Only two or three of the contestants mentioned having a real job!  Most of them never mention ever having such a thing with "woods bumming" and the love of building shelters in the woods as a kid being their top resume filler. 

That is probably why they have an unlimited block of time to devote to this project.

Of course there is the mandatory spiritual healer and the token "first nations" descendent.

I'm going to have to get a batch of fresh popcorn.

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## hayshaker

that island is full of pines and the can't find any fatwood or dry punk wood?
i thought the were survival experts, hmmm . did'nt see the show don't have television let alone cable.
where's thier food comming from are they fishing any or what?

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## kyratshooter

You have internet Hayshaker!

Go over to the History Channel website and watch the episodes on computer, or even your phone.

Man I have to do everything for you guys!

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## hayshaker

krat i have dail up sad face.
anyhow i think they should rename the show fresh meat cause that is what those men will be.
they had better build some damm strong shelters with sound roofs too too damm much rain.
are there any moose or deer on the island or just predetors?
where's les stroud or joe teti shoot they know better my guess. i wish i could see the show.

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## Batch

> I used to work with guys that would not work overtime because they had to pay more taxes. Well, yeah, that's sort of how it works. It was a bonanza for me though. I got all the overtime I wanted and then some.


I have worked jobs where after 42 hours my take home pay went down until I worked a like 44 or 45 hours. I knew it would all sort out in the wash. But, it still sucked. LOL

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## Faiaoga

I have never followed TV "survival" shows but may need to look at this one.  I remember (loooong ago) working two summer seasons in SE Alaska on Kupreanof Island, a somewhat similar environment.  I remember rubber boots, Helly Hansen rain gear and some beautiful country.  I also remember devils club - but not fondly.

From what I can learn of Vancouver Island, there are no grizzly bears, coyotes (and probably no wolves), moose - but there are black bear and puma.  

I remember making a fire at lunch time every day, but we had kitchen matches and the waxed paper our sandwiches were wrapped in.  Making a fire with a sparking rod must be a challenge.

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## crashdive123

Lots of black bears, cougars and wolves on Vancouver Island.

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## Rick

> I have worked jobs where after 42 hours my take home pay went down until I worked a like 44 or 45 hours. I knew it would all sort out in the wash. But, it still sucked. LOL




When I first started overtime was called Chinese Overtime. We were paid half our hourly rate. Yeah, pretty sad. Fortunately, that didn't last but six months for me.

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## hunter63

As a salary supervision, I didn't get OT......so I would schedule the set up guy / straw boss to work Saturdays....They were union and made time and a half....and were happy with it.
Seemed like every time I got a promotion,... I worked more hours.....did make more bucks, but still were long days.

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## Sarge47

These guys are "Survival experts?"  the 1st guy  lost his fire steel and taps out cuz he can't make fire.  What?  He doesn't know any other way to make fire?  Bow drill?  Find a piece of flint?.... :Creepy: 

The 2nd guy is charged by a bear at night and decides that's it for him.  I didn't really blame him for leaving.  Here's the thing, most people don't know how loneliness can affect a person.  These folks are finding out.  I guess you have to go through it to understand it.  Fear/panic and loneliness are the two top dangers in solo survival.  so to all these people that come on here that say that they hate society and other people and want to go live in the woods for the rest of their days, I don't think they know what they are talking about.  Here's a tip, however.  I hear there's plenty of room on Vancouver Island, and the small population already there is decreasing rapidly.  If you want help getting there apply for the next season, and good luck!... :Whistling:

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## Batch

Sarge, the population of Vancouver Island is not dropping very noticeably. It is home to 759,366 people. Not including short time guests practicing bush craft. :smile:

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## kyratshooter

The problem that these guys are having with fire is that Vancouver Island gets almost 100 inches of rain each year.  Everything there stays saturated.

They all also seem to have the "little fire" syndrome going.  You build a little fire and get close, and in the lower 48 that might work, but to have your fire last through a bit of rain and/or go overnight you are going to have to put more than twigs in it.  I noticed that most of them are splitting wood they should be putting on the fire whole if they do not want to have to feed it constantly.  It is taking them some time to discover that they need to build a big fire and keep it going 24/7

It is getting very predictable.  First they start whining about missing family, then they decide they do not want to be bear food!  Then they tap out.  

This whiney about the family thing is starting to pi$$ me off.  What would they do if they had a year long military deployment?  When was the last time one of these tough guys really spent time with their family?  Did no one tell them they were going to be Alone?  Its the name of the show for the love of Pete!

We are talking 4 days at this point! Sorry but I am a widower who lives alone.  I go more than 4 days before I WANT to see another person!  Being around people a couple of days a week is about all I can stand.  Yep I am the cranky old guy that lives down the road, "GET OFF MY LAWN!" 

No one is taking an aggressive approach toward the predators, and the predators can feel it.  Not a single one of them is acting like the top predator in their territory.  "Hey Bear!" in a wimpy quivering voice don't impress them much.  We always had to yell with authority and throw stuff at them to get the "butt rolling down the hill" response we desired.  

What I am seeing is the response of animals that are not used to seeing humans and are curious about them.  A bear walking toward you and stopping at 20 feet is not charging you, it is checking you out.  Once it smells fear in your sweat, or the crap you just deposited in your pants, it probably will decide you are food!

So says the Krat, sitting safely in his living room.

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## hunter63

Here, here, yeah, Kyrat, you go ...........I agree......(gotta go pour another cup of joe....)

I do think that the "alone-ness" is a big factor, especially in the dark.

....and the poor souls that want to RATTW because the don't like people, and want to get away from the world, live off the land, and the grid.....Then come on the interweb to tell all of us......So go already...we don't want to know.....BUT

Watching all episodes of Alone, Naked and Afraid, and Life Below Zero....is mandatory.

Takes more that a boonie hat, beard, RAT 7 knife and video camera to survive.

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## TXyakr

> that island is full of pines and they can't find any fatwood or dry punk wood?
> i thought the were survival experts, hmmm . didn't see the show don't have television let alone cable.
> where's thier food comming from are they fishing any or what?


My thoughts as well, use a blade to dig under wet exterior and find plenty of dry and flammable/kindling below. Also many small game animals like beaver and rabbits that are not extremely difficult to kill. Northern Vancouver Island is not as populated as southern (I have two cousins who live on S-Vancouver Island), much seafood is not legal to harvest but if you are in true survival mode WTF just do it "It looked like it was legal size to me, measuring scale was not in my survival kit". I may actually watch this show now, but most of these are like watching Pop Warner Football, mostly I shout at TV, "OMG don't do THAT!!!", "Tap out already and stop the whine, Mommy's boy!"

$500,000? would ask to spread out over 5 years to reduce tax burden (escrow) and tell friends loans are at 18% interest (sign legal document). My relatives/friends never ask to borrow anymore, they know I am a tight wad. If you are not a jerk, and play it well you might make some more in endorsements (Walmart junk like Bear G.) or get a fun (low paying) job teaching survival skills until this fad is over, probably in a month or year from now. Sorry snark comes naturally to me like a duck to water.

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## hunter63

Yeah...Shark week is coming up pretty soon.....

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## TXyakr

Watching first episode now on demand: Josh (police office) was defeated by ignorance and fear. Black bears are basically very large raccoons mother bear and cubs came looking for easy meal of food scraps they could steal from neighbor and rather than chase them off like a sensible person. Josh just lay there pissing himself like a scared little baby clutching his ax and bear spray. OMG let them get close spray in face make a loud noise and tell them this is my territory stay away, I'm the BOSS! Also don't eat there or leave any food near sleeping area. OR!! you can play it safer and make some noises they back off then get out of shelter and make louder noises until they back off further. Even very large predators like brown bear don't want to risk getting injured, and back of most of the time if your posture is correct, and you have a good tree to climb just in case.

Now what is he or others going to do about the most dangerous creature: moose? Fast escape plan? Tree to climb?

Correction: NO moose or brown bear on that island evidently, just black bear, wolves and puma (aka cougar, mountain lion, panther many other names for same species, Puma concolor), I have had puma come very close to my tarp and tent then scream they want me to know it is their territory but mostly they eat deer. So don't look like a deer and if you kill one, process it fast and get out of there, so you are not in the way of "sharing" it with them. Another reason I prefer small game if by myself in a semi or true survival situation. Lots of meat attracts lots of animals of all types especially puma, wolves and black bear, the crows and vultures will spot you first then sent out the message and you had better move fast. Large deer or elk by yourself? NOT GOOD!!! Getting dark, far from cabin or vehicle? very bad!

Did any of them place fatwood and kindling in sun to dry and then under tarp before sundown to keep dry?

OMG family is ticked off I am shouting at TV more than for a sports game!!! Worse than Pop Warner Football at least those are little kids who are allowed to cry and whine. I need to take some more blood pressure med. ha ha ha

My pick for possible winners are Wayne, Lucas and Mitch after watching 2nd episode

Wayne seems to have best psychology and keep it simple did not appear to show excessive signs of attachment to family but that may not be true (personally I am better if focusing on tasks at hand and not constantly thinking of them or calling them when gone for extended time.)

Lucas grew up on farm and spent time in wilderness, I always bet on farm boy, they know how to put in long hours of labor.

Mitch is very logical, methodical, and intentional with everything he does, also best at filming himself so doing himself good for post show with opportunities that may come from the TV exposure. However, he appears to miss his family far to much and may tap out mostly because of psychological pressure, not because he cannot do it technically or physically. I have worked with research scientists who were excellent at what they did, looked like hippies (hair style and apparel etc.), but were not strong psychologically and just fell apart under what seemed like minor pressure to me. But I hope I am wrong about him because his skills and techniques and ability to video record them are good. I strongly dislike recording myself it is a PITA.

BTW: Filter creek water for Beaver Fever (Giardiasis) thru moss??? OMG Brant I hope you have a high resistance to pathogens. That rain forest is crawling with critters pooping everywhere, just go eat some scat why don't you? ha ha ha

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## Winter

Sarge, there's no flint around here. I've never seen someone make a bowdrill fire here without drying the wood first. I'm talking about drying it in a dry place, not setting it out of the rain in a lean-to. The air is very wet.

What pines? It's hemlock, spruce, red and yellow cedar as the coniferous trees and alder with the occasional willow as deciduous. You can find crabapple in old settlement/logging/fishing camps.

One of you fellas should come up to visit and see. We are having the driest yr ever, so you may do well.

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## Canadian-guerilla

I'm watching this also

interesting to see how they solve basic problems and wonder how I would do things differently

also watching " Alaskan Bush People "

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## Grizz123

> I used to work with guys that would not work overtime because they had to pay more taxes. Well, yeah, that's sort of how it works. It was a bonanza for me though. I got all the overtime I wanted and then some.


I was in the same boat and it took a while to figure out the breaking point. What I mean is, if I worked "X" hrs OT, I was good to go. If I worked too many hours I ended up working for free. I remember my ex getting so excited about a promotion/raise she got, then she got her first check and it was ~$10 less than she was earning before the raise. Turns out the raise put her a few dollars into a new tax bracket.




> Sarge, there's no flint around here. I've never seen someone make a bowdrill fire here without drying the wood first. I'm talking about drying it in a dry place, not setting it out of the rain in a lean-to. The air is very wet.
> 
> What pines? It's hemlock, spruce, red and yellow cedar as the coniferous trees and alder with the occasional willow as deciduous. You can find crabapple in old settlement/logging/fishing camps.
> 
> One of you fellas should come up to visit and see. We are having the driest yr ever, so you may do well.


I was thinking the same thing. 

If you go to discover channel and search for their 10 items, its very interesting. Plus they had to choose their items from a list of 40. I didn't find the list of 40 yet. 

From watching the show and comparing to the written list on the site, I see that everyone brought their own items from the list, they were not supplied by the discovery channel. I've noticed different cooking pots, all in well used condition and a coffee pot. All of the ferro rods dont look alike but its hard to tell. Tarps, saws, axes, knives, canvas are all different from man to man.

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## TXyakr

> If you go to discover channel and search for their 10 items, its very interesting. Plus they had to choose their items from a list of 40. I didn't find the list of 40 yet. 
> 
> From watching the show and comparing to the written list on the site, I see that everyone brought their own items from the list, they were not supplied by the discovery channel. I've noticed different cooking pots, all in well used condition and a coffee pot. All of the ferro rods dont look alike but its hard to tell. Tarps, saws, axes, knives, canvas are all different from man to man.


History Channel not Discover

http://www.history.com/shows/alone/cast

I agree with winter use whatever sunlight there is to dry out tinder then cover with tarp, when it gets super humid, i.e. rain and as sun goes down. I don't know the region well but should be some juniper, mushrooms moss or something that is flammable when dried out. 12 feet of rain per year is about what I had growing up, keeping wood and tinder dry was a constant issue.

By second episode they all seemed to be making fires with fire-steels but if they looked for horse hoof (Fomes fomentarius) mushrooms they could probably find as well as other tinder (except the one fool who did not tie to neck or put in pocket after use):

http://forestrydev.org/diseases/CTD/.../heart3_e.html

Rocky Mountain Juniper grows mostly on the Eastern side Vancouver Island may not be any on far northern section. But here on left side is a partial list of trees in B.C. several pines none of which may grow in this area. But the feather sticks of whatever wood they found seemed to work, drying it out and keeping it dry is critical regardless of the species of wood.

http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure.../rmjuniper.htm

Were the men given any hint as to which region they were going to? Why 10 men and not a single woman? My parent's organization had more success with single women in very remote areas than men, they do better psychologically and the physical stuff is mostly technique not brut strength. Things that make me wonder about these TV shows. I know a few women who would do fairly well out there. One out of 100,000 perhaps, obviously more men think they can but most men are full of nonsense, in my experience. I hear them say a lot of blah blah, then once we get in wilderness they fall apart, get injured and beg for extraction. Some people should just stick to car camping and use large caliber firearms like it was a pacifier or security blanket. Insecure babies IMO.

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## Sarge47

> Sarge, there's no flint around here. I've never seen someone make a bowdrill fire here without drying the wood first. I'm talking about drying it in a dry place, not setting it out of the rain in a lean-to. The air is very wet.


Couldn't the needed wood be dried by the fire he'd already started?  Also, according to the list, looks they all had a good amount of 550 cord; perhaps make a lanyard to hang the fire steel on and keep it around his neck so he wouldn't lose it?  I think he was missing his family and just wanted out of there.... :Scared: 




> What pines? It's hemlock, spruce, red and yellow cedar as the coniferous trees and alder with the occasional willow as deciduous. You can find crabapple in old settlement/logging/fishing camps.


there's old camps?  Do they know this?... :Confused1: 




> One of you fellas should come up to visit and see. We are having the driest yr ever, so you may do well.


Only if you're there Kevin.  I'd need to be with somebody who's experienced the area.... :Yes:

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## TXyakr

> What pines? It's hemlock, spruce, red and yellow cedar as the coniferous trees and alder with the occasional willow as deciduous. You can find crabapple in old settlement/logging/fishing camps.
> 
> One of you fellas should come up to visit and see. We are having the driest yr ever, so you may do well.


I agree there are definitely some very old abandoned logging camps in that area. From the crude map they showed the general area Mitch was in (I did not zoom in with satellite Google, correction when back and tried but could not find the exact location) it seemed like a good area. This is NOT original growth forest like the Hoh NW Washington or a few places in Olympic National Forest if any most of that has been logged as well. Most fishing camps would be on eastern side of Island not this far northern side, but the somewhat protected inlet where Mitch was set down might be a better chance, even an old settlement. However I did not get a good look at it and have never been that far north on Vancouver Island myself. Further south and east has great fishing and hunting, but that northern tip is rough. But IMO a firearm for black bears, puma and wolves not essential, also fire-steel without lamp oil or other accelerant is a PITA but doable. Rubbing sticks major PITA, lose/break your fire-steel you had better be an master of bow or pack it in.

BTW there are very few places on this Earth that have not been logged and therefore you can find the remains of logging camps and other settlements everywhere especially in forests, but even in very dry places and remote wilderness areas. Miners have been there or the indigenous people or the wildlife carries in invasive non-native species of plants, fungus etc some of which is useful for starting fires, food and shelter etc. Helps to be an expert on a region, but the more you have time in the wilderness in general and multiple regions the more you know what to look for may be a different species or variety but same genius or similar species in another region that you used before, i.e. same basic skills.

That very large Island has Sitka spruce (good for firewood if you can find it and are allowed to use it, can split it.), also plenty of Douglas Fur, but Western white pine (Pinus monticola) all but the far North Western tip of Island so they may not have any of that. No Oak as far as I know so folks from south would be wasting their time looking for that, but some micro climates around capital of Victoria were one of my cousins lives you can grow some citrus trees with a bit of care, warmest place in Canada, why he lives there. Other cousin just moves to AZ in winter because he can.

----------


## TXyakr

Watched 3rd Episode online (History.com) and I was wrong about Wayne evidently he sees a back bear (500 pound raccoon relative basically) down the trail 20 feet/yards and it terrified him, then he begs for extraction in the middle of the night. So they drive in on a LOGGING ROAD, (yes this area has a lot of logging!! no surprise there) and the crew hikes for a few hours to get to him risking a puma attack (not that likely actually with all the noise and lights). Joe I can only imagine searched the beach carefully for his fire-steel before wasting time videoing himself looking for it or the extraction team video recorded him looking for it in all the wrong places just for viewer drama, OMG. What a fool. Put it in zipper pocket or tie around neck or in kit pocket of knife sheath or something, process and procedure, this should be practiced not haphazard.

I took simple little History channel quiz online it said I was most like Alan, he does eat almost anything that will not harm a person much like me and is adaptable. I cannot figure out his psychology, he seemed to make a big production out of banana slug, but whatever it is a TV show, might as well I guess. None have been shown attempting to catch crab. Wayne did not attempt to use dead sea bird on cord to catch crab (don't need a cage/trap or net just meat on end of cord and speed, gloves or bucket/basket helps, they can cut you up). Burn or bury in the ground all potential food for bears and other scavengers and predators or they will hang around your area. Bears in that region normally have a lot of food: fish, berries, fruit etc but unusually dry weather makes them more aggressive than normal so I would be very cautious.

Alan may be close to top of my list of those who may win. But intro did not tell if any of these men had any experience camping in areas with aggressive scavangers or large predators. Do most people practice "bushcraft" and "primitive camping" and so called "survival skills" in their suburban backyards and state parks or someplace with only small raccoons and skunks or what???  I grew up with jaguar and puma, often walked in jungle alone with only a machete or just a .410 shotgun and just a flash light at night to go pee/poop. Heard them roar/scream all night long quite often. No worries. Some of these guys piss themselves over a black bear trying to steal some scraps of food? Whatever. Finally on the Sabine and Neches rivers of East Texas there are a very few black bear and puma but mostly I see signs of them and hear them in mountain areas of AR and out far west, a lot in Jasper National Park, Canada. Will be more interesting when fools are gone and folks with actual survival/wilderness experience remain. And they learn to operate video equipment which I admit is a PITA and takes time away from important activities, also lens fog up in high humidity (or at least my poor quality gear).

BTW is/was this site somewhere between Winter Harbour and Port Alice? Quatsino Provincial Park?

----------


## Sarge47

> Watched 3rd Episode online (History.com) and I was wrong about Wayne evidently he sees a back bear (500 pound raccoon relative basically) down the trail 20 feet/yards and it terrified him, then he begs for extraction in the middle of the night. So they drive in on a LOGGING ROAD, (yes this area has a lot of logging!! no surprise there) and the crew hikes for a few hours to get to him risking a puma attack (not that likely actually with all the noise and lights). Joe I can only imagine searched the beach carefully for his fire-steel before wasting time videoing himself looking for it or the extraction team video recorded him looking for it in all the wrong places just for viewer drama, OMG. What a fool. Put it in zipper pocket or tie around neck or in kit pocket of knife sheath or something, process and procedure, this should be practiced not haphazard.
> 
> I took simple little History channel quiz online it said I was most like Alan, he does eat almost anything that will not harm a person much like me and is adaptable. I cannot figure out his psychology, he seemed to make a big production out of banana slug, but whatever it is a TV show, might as well I guess. None have been shown attempting to catch crab. Wayne did not attempt to use dead sea bird on cord to catch crab (don't need a cage/trap or net just meat on end of cord and speed, gloves or bucket/basket helps, they can cut you up). Burn or bury in the ground all potential food for bears and other scavengers and predators or they will hang around your area. Bears in that region normally have a lot of food: fish, berries, fruit etc but unusually dry weather makes them more aggressive than normal so I would be very cautious.
> 
> Alan may be close to top of my list of those who may win. But intro did not tell if any of these men had any experience camping in areas with aggressive scavangers or large predators. Do most people practice "bushcraft" and "primitive camping" and so called "survival skills" in their suburban backyards and state parks or someplace with only small raccoons and skunks or what???  I grew up with jaguar and puma, often walked in jungle alone with only a machete or just a .410 shotgun and just a flash light at night to go pee/poop. Heard them roar/scream all night long quite often. No worries. Some of these guys piss themselves over a black bear trying to steal some scraps of food? Whatever. Finally on the Sabine and Neches rivers of East Texas there are a very few black bear and puma but mostly I see signs of them and hear them in mountain areas of AR and out far west, a lot in Jasper National Park, Canada. Will be more interesting when fools are gone and folks with actual survival/wilderness experience remain. And they learn to operate video equipment which I admit is a PITA and takes time away from important activities, also lens fog up in high humidity (or at least my poor quality gear).
> 
> BTW is/was this site somewhere between Winter Harbour and Port Alice? Quatsino Provincial Park?


I agree with your assessment.  I figure Sam will be leaving soon, he's had this phoney "positive attitude" thing going on since he got there.  Doesn't appear to be taking it seriously.  Is Al the guy from Georgia?  He may stay on longer as well.  Yeah, the dead bird was perfect bait and the guy threw it away...ya gotta be kidding me!  Remember, all these guys are considered "survival experts!".... :Whistling:

----------


## Grizz123

> I agree with your assessment.  I figure Sam will be leaving soon, he's had this phoney "positive attitude" thing going on since he got there.  Doesn't appear to be taking it seriously.  Is Al the guy from Georgia?  He may stay on longer as well.  Yeah, the dead bird was perfect bait and the guy threw it away...ya gotta be kidding me!  Remember, all these guys are considered "survival experts!"....


Hey Sarge, they're looking for people for season 2, sign up and show everybody how its done.

----------


## The Wildman

Hi Guys! 
I've just joined, and I found this interesting thread, so thought I'd 'chip-in' ...I'm - amazed - that not even a week in has weeded-out these, "Survival Experts" (?) And some of the unbelievable things these 'experts' are doing in terms of day-to-day activities just beggars belief. Two of them have their own You Tube channels, and one of them already quit, after losing his ferro rod....! It's definitely purely for entertainment value, and I wouldn't expect any of them to last more than 3 weeks there. I'd be genuinely surprised if that actually happened.

----------


## TXyakr

Yes Sarge47 I agree, I spent/wasted some time picking thru video clips and Google (might save others time). Saw that boats, planes, helicopters left Coal Harbour, so they may be very close there on San Josef Bay between Coal H. and Holberg or closer to main coast on way to Winter Harbour but I doubt it. Used boat from Bear Cove Cottages out of Port Hardy but these type of outfitters typically have outposts/bases in many different locations or trailer boats to ports (publicity is worth it). Even a tiny kayak instructor/outfitter I help out with does.

Very difficult to tell who will be winner, but Alan Kay from Georgia has much going for him if he does not get injured or lose it mentally. Sam 22 is just to young, but with some experience he could do well. Prime age with experience IMO is between 30-60 years if healthy. Women have more endurance than strength generally but I know some who have more strength and endurance than me. Major disadvantage for some women (not all) may be time of month when difficult to control "flow" which could attract predators but there are ways to reduce this disadvantage. But many other people cut them selves and allow blood to drip all over the place which is just as bad, Clean it up and burn it!

I might take the challenge, but not easy to make a good video resume, and wife and kids would not be happy about it. IMO at 50 still not too old but I did notice all were under 50. Less than 10% of each day would be enjoyable, but same with most jobs. At least no venomous snakes as far as I know, just wet and cold 24/7, that gets very old fast. If you had ever booked a guided Elk hunt on Vancouver Island and History Channel found out they would probably disqualify you. So that is a bummer. Also if they found out I had been to place where next show is produced they would disqualify me, i.e. they want "experts" with big holes in resume.
Alan's gear:
1. Saw
2. Axe
3. Sleeping bag
4. Large 2-quart pot
5. Ferro rod
6. Water bottle/canteen metal!!!! I think!
7. 300 yards single filament line with 25 assorted hooks
8. Small gauge gill net
9. 3.5lb wire for snares and shelter etc etc.
10. Knife

I would have cheated and put small ferro rod with drilled holes in laces of boots/sandals, inside 550 shoe laces, sewn in seams of apparel, they would have needed to go over my stuff very carefully for sewing needles, tiny razor blades, magnets, files, stuff to be used off camera... ha ha ha... only a problem if you get caught, say "OH my wife she was SOOO concerned about me and so good with a needle and thread dog gone her..." Actually she does not sew, I do, best way to make gear stores do not sell.

Alan appeared to use fir, yew or similar evergreen branches for shelter, enough of these should work, but need to add more every few days and bull kelp perhaps.

Also whine about black bear until they drop off multiple bear spray cans with daily battery resupply trips is my guess. (which Joe could have used to start fire BTW, oops fell and broke camera, well used wire/knife/axe shorted battery started fire wow what a surprise it worked OMG!) Have bear spray can on you at all times, test out each can and have handy. May not be recommended by all experts but I like to let predator or scavenger (but not skunk not on V. Island) get close then spray at about 5-10 feet, tell them I am boss, but NOT brown bear, also no brown bear on V. Island so it is actually a relatively friendly island compared to places further north and inland/mainland. So why all the whiney crying wet eyes and snotty noses?

One of several Hunting Outfitters on North East Vancouver Island (TrophyWest) Elk, Deer, Bear, Cougar, Wolf, Mtn Goats but probably on other locations:
http://www.trophywest.com/hunt-info

----------


## Sarge47

> Hi Guys! 
> I've just joined, and I found this interesting thread, so thought I'd 'chip-in' ...I'm - amazed - that not even a week in has weeded-out these, "Survival Experts" (?) And some of the unbelievable things these 'experts' are doing in terms of day-to-day activities just beggars belief. Two of them have their own You Tube channels, and one of them already quit, after losing his ferro rod....! It's definitely purely for entertainment value, and I wouldn't expect any of them to last more than 3 weeks there. I'd be genuinely surprised if that actually happened.


Welcome, you're welcome to join in, however it's considered polite to not just barge in without a proper introduction.  Why not take a moment and fill this out over in the introduction section, thanks.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...r-Introduction

 :Cowboy:

----------


## Sarge47

> Hey Sarge, they're looking for people for season 2, sign up and show everybody how its done.


I'm saving myself for "Fat guys in the Woods.".... :Banana:

----------


## hunter63

> Very difficult to tell who will be winner, but Alan Kay from Georgia has much going for him if he does not get injured or lose it mentally. Sam 22 is just to young, but with some experience he could do well. Prime age with experience IMO is between 30-60 years if healthy. Women have more endurance than strength generally but I know some who have more strength and endurance than me. Major disadvantage for some women (not all) may be time of month when difficult to control "flow" which could attract predators but there are ways to reduce this disadvantage. But many other people cut them selves and allow blood to drip all over the place which is just as bad, Clean it up and burn it!
> 
> Didn't know this program had women?
> 
> I might take the challenge, but not easy to make a good video resume, and wife and kids would not be happy about it. IMO at 50 still not too old but I did notice all were under 50. Less than 10% of each day would be enjoyable, but same with most jobs. At least no venomous snakes as far as I know, just wet and cold 24/7, that gets very old fast. If you had ever booked a guided Elk hunt on Vancouver Island and History Channel found out they would probably disqualify you. So that is a bummer. Also if they found out I had been to place where next show is produced they would disqualify me, i.e. they want "experts" with big holes in resume.
> Alan's gear:
> 1. Saw
> 2. Axe
> 3. Sleeping bag
> ...


Seems to be an underlying thought to cheat and bend the rules....LOL
Why is that?....If you only had 10 items, you would what 11?

Naked and Afraid is not allow to have all the stuff they have, and have dealt with lions, hippos, hyena, croc's, caiman, monitor lizards, and sharks...... 

I do like "Fat Guys in the woods..."

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## Batch

3 have tapped because of fear of predators. I know most people no longer have large predators in their areas and so don't have any experience with them. Hearing anything moving while you have that built up fear while you try to pass a long dark night by yourself is going to freak you out. 

The wolves on the island are described as very shy and it is unusual for them to be seen by humans. There have been two bear maulings. Cougar attacks are rare. 

http://www.westerlynews.ca/local-new...ttack-1.185177

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimesc...8-89044c3a8de3

The fourth, Joe, says he quit because he lost his ferro rod. If you look at his 10 items video from his youtube site he describes the ferro he brought a big, big bunker style ferro rod from firesteel.com. He holds his hand to indicate a 4 or 5 inch ferro rod. So, he had a 1/2" by 4" or 5" rod that he set on his jacket and it fell on the ground. I am not convinced that he just didn't throw in the towel. If you listen to what he says when he talks about leaving on the show. It sounds like he realized he had bitten off more than he bargained for and so he just quit.

https://youtu.be/iz1Ve-5UQQY

So far I am leaning toward all that have tapped out so far as being fear driven.

----------


## TXyakr

Well I guess I watched "Dude you'er screwed" too much but mostly I just like having backups, i.e. incase rucksack/backpack gets taken by a bear or raccoon or lost in ride down a white water river, enough time in the wilderness and you learn that if something bad/SHTF can happen it sooner or later will, best to have back up blade, fire starter etc. hidden in your apparel. Make bow drill + board as well and keep it and tinder in dry place. "Naked and Afraid" IMO is a stupid show for comfy chair spectators, I grew up with mostly naked indigenous people and most of them would laugh at the stupidity of that show. "Fat Guys in the woods" is much better, IMO. Not sure if everyone of them has backpack suspended from tree branch with cord when not using it, or just sitting under tarp in shelter, this is a big risk, even with no food a bear is likely to take it.

This region of V. Island is Area 27 for B.C. fisheries I believe, as you can see fairly generous regulations for shellfish. Contestants can use gill net with willow branches or similar to make a simple dip net to catch crab etc. as they craw or swim in shallows or just hold clams etc (as long as you are not allergic to shellfish). 11.5 cm min size of Red Rock Crab hopefully some of them in shallows, make a simple rake for clams, also small fish in swampy areas, funnel/trap for salmon in river/creek, work all areas as tide is going out. Never store extra food or you attract bear and puma etc. Catch fill up belly and dispose or bury extra, I learned from indigenous people eat till you are about to burst when there is food then if necessary you can go days with none, live off fat, not good for health but works. I have seen water-buffalo and cattle try to steal and eat meat that was smoking, ran off with anyway, it is a PITA to preserve meat in humid climate, better just to hunt/catch and cook then eat immediately.

Basic regulations (Area 27), B.C. is similar to Louisiana a sportsman's paradise but without cottonmouth:
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/r...uille-eng.html

Red Rock Crab:
http://www.shim.bc.ca/species/redrock.htm

----------


## hunter63

At least there have been quite a few couples on N&A make it for 21 days of starving....not just one or 2 days.... day/night w/all that gear.

These boys are not very impressive.

So I disagree with you, but have to say haven't watched either one for a while now....

I am a fan of the Original "Survivor" Show.....still on....LOL

----------


## Sarge47

> At least there have been quite a few couples on N&A make it for 21 days of starving....not just one or 2 days.... day/night w/all that gear.
> 
> These boys are not very impressive.
> 
> So I disagree with you, but have to say haven't watched either one for a while now....
> 
> I am a fan of the Original "Survivor" Show.....still on....LOL


And if only "Man, Woman, Wild" were still on....!... :sweatingbullets:

----------


## TXyakr

> The fourth, Joe, says he quit because he lost his ferro rod. If you look at his 10 items video from his youtube site he describes the ferro he brought a big, big bunker style ferro rod from firesteel.com. He holds his hand to indicate a 4 or 5 inch ferro rod. So, he had a 1/2" by 4" or 5" rod that he set on his jacket and it fell on the ground. I am not convinced that he just didn't throw in the towel. If you listen to what he says when he talks about leaving on the show. It sounds like he realized he had bitten off more than he bargained for and so he just quit.
> 
> https://youtu.be/iz1Ve-5UQQY
> 
> So far I am leaning toward all that have tapped out so far as being fear driven.


That was an interesting video Joe posted, I cannot figure him out. Perhaps he had narrow expectations of what he would encounter and when he got there was not able to adapt fast enough. Just from the bird's eye view (no details) I thought his location was possibly the worst (my first impression) but I could have been very wrong about that. I have a large "GOBSPARK ARMAGEDDON FIRESTEEL" from fire-steel dot com that is way over priced $13 and bulky, NOT for backpacking but with plastic sheath and striker it is not easily broken like tiny ones, I rarely use it. Perhaps he used one like it, lanyard it comes with is junk, best to replace with good quality 550 cord or loop of amsteel/dyneema. Smaller ones in wooden or vinyl tubing to protect are more practical IMO, or in handle of knife or sheath.

Comparing this show with "Fat guys" and "Naked and Afraid" is like Apple to Oranges or chickens to hippopotamus. Alone is in a very cold and wet environment with psychology of being alone for an indefinite amount of time. N&F is warm and you have a partner surrounded by camera and sound crew with medical crew on short notice, with most wildlife frightened away by all the commotion, and definite end date to count down to. TOTALLY different.

Everyone reacts differently but when I was about 11 years old I spent the summer with a friend's family instead of my own in a very remote and primitive indigenous village. There were a few minutes each morning that the adults were on short wave radio and I could talk to my mother if I wanted to but it only made me home sick, so after once or twice I choose not to, and was always out of the hut during this time in the morning. I could leave a message that I was doing well. My friend's mother figured me out, psychologically very fast and explained it to my mom who understood. Even today by day 3 I generally text message my wife when I am in the wilderness (if I can get a signal but tell wife not to expect one) that I am alive and healthy but that is about it. Other guys and women I camp with drain their batteries talking for hours, I never do. Don't really care if the kids are driving her crazy, that is her issue, will deal with it when I get home, I don't want any distractions that will mess with my mind.

Edit: Saw a few of Joe's YouTube video's, none were impressive. It is cynical but perhaps he and others just want to get on History TV show and other shows like it to promote their YouTube channels in hopes of making some money from them. The gear he demonstrated was not very good IMO, and he was not any good at the demo so wasted History Channel TV time and everyone's else's, but just my opinion, it's a free country I'm sure he has fans and followers. To each their own.

----------


## TXyakr

> 3 have tapped because of fear of predators. I know most people no longer have large predators in their areas and so don't have any experience with them. Hearing anything moving while you have that built up fear while you try to pass a long dark night by yourself is going to freak you out. 
> 
> The wolves on the island are described as very shy and it is unusual for them to be seen by humans. There have been two bear maulings. Cougar attacks are rare. 
> 
> http://www.westerlynews.ca/local-new...ttack-1.185177
> 
> http://www.canada.com/victoriatimesc...8-89044c3a8de3


These incidents sound similar to some in other parts of North America. Very rare, you are more likely to be attacked by a pack of feral dogs or possibly hogs than black bears unless you cover yourself in food and lie there very still or incredibly drunk which I suspect may have been the case a few times. My wife and one daughter were watching that ABC Bachelorette show and the lady on it was terrified of birds and could not walk past the pigeons in a city park, their wing flapping freaked her out. Some people are just not rational. On the farm some folks are afraid of large cows, whatever.

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## crashdive123

I've been catching the show on-line and find it interesting.  As I suspected, the psychology of being alone and isolated has proven to be more challenging than lack of skills.

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## kyratshooter

I just had to post this after I found it on another site.  

This is what those guys are stressing over!

http://i.imgur.com/Vmuts2X.gifv

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## jdbushcraft

Joe is, I believe, an admin on bushcraftusa.cim. I got reprimanded for saying he wussed out.  He had a fire so until it went out there was no need for a firesteel.    He just had to shift priorities a bit to make keeping that fire going number one.  If didn't currently have a fire I'd be much more lenient as getting one started would be very hard.  But to have one and quit....

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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## Winter

> Couldn't the needed wood be dried by the fire he'd already started?  Also, according to the list, looks they all had a good amount of 550 cord; perhaps make a lanyard to hang the fire steel on and keep it around his neck so he wouldn't lose it?  I think he was missing his family and just wanted out of there....
> 
> 
> 
> there's old camps?  Do they know this?...
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you're there Kevin.  I'd need to be with somebody who's experienced the area....



I'm down with that.




You can see logging roads in the show. Look for what looks like a strip of lighter green. That is alders reclaiming a road. The circle of life here is gravel road, alders overtake it, then salmonberry co mingles with that, then coniferous trees take root in the soil created by alder leaves. Logging roads lead to quarries that were blasted to build the roads. Quarries are often a good source for rope and metals such as rebar and barrels.

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## xjosh40x

This show was a good idea but the producers seemed to have chosen the wrong people. It seems that a lot of guys go to Walmart and buy a Colman mag block with stick and are able to produce a fire in dry grass in the middle of August and think they are a expert bushman. Or watching a dozen YouTube videos doesn't make you apocalypse expert. Now I'll admit I'm far from an "expert" but for my area on mississippi I'm pretty well suited for survival. I'm just an avid outdoorsman who loves going to the river with my single man canvas tent and primitive camping with some tight lining all night or camping primitively only to wake early to go hunting. Now with only 10 items in unfamiliar territory I doubt I'll do as well as I would in my hometown. But if I was able to chose my items and I knew bears and wolves were an issue I would get a 44mag six shooter.

----------


## hunter63

> Joe is, I believe, an admin on bushcraftusa.cim. I got reprimanded for saying he wussed out.  He had a fire so until it went out there was no need for a firesteel.    He just had to shift priorities a bit to make keeping that fire going number one.  If didn't currently have a fire I'd be much more lenient as getting one started would be very hard.  But to have one and quit....
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Bad place for opinions.....True Dat......LOL.

Caught the end of one tonight....guy bailed because a bear kept charging his tent.....Producers had to walk in the dark to get him out.
So,..it looks like 6 left.

----------


## Sarge47

These guys are supposed to know survival, right?  I have to restrain myself from yelling at the TV!  One guy's been drinking at least 10 quarts if water right from a polluted stream and was having problems...DER!  "Dude!" I want to yell, "You've got the largest amount of rainfall on the planet...and you don't have to boil it either! You know you might have thought to have included some sort of water filter in with your gear...even a "Life Straw" would be better than nothing.  And why didn't you make a weapon right from the start.  sharpen a spear point on a long branch and harden it in the fire.!  Creek Stewart can teach you about weapons.  And remember, there's no crying in Survival!

At the age of 19 I was at McCoy Wisconsin at the old Camp McCoy Army base in Job Corps.  This Vista worker started up a bunch of us camping on the weekends.  It rained long and hard every time we were out, but we managed to start a fire right away and keep it going all the time we were there!  We even caught Bullhead in the nearby lake!

Given all there facing I'd say keeping them isolated and limiting their belongings to only 10 items is not a good thing.... :Ohmy:

----------


## wareagle69

hmmm...so I have applied for season 2.....having been involvedwith dude your screwed and met john Hudson and the other boys it all comes down to psycology of survival....mitch I like he goes by native survival and wayne is kullcraven bushcraft all good practiononers of survival....in there own comfort zone...and most with weapons....having spent years working with wovles and black bear my comfort level is good...cougar are still a mystery to me....I have no family so not worried about that aspect...the biggest obstacle is psycology...something I focus on quite heavily when I teach.....armchair quarterbacking is easy....I challenge anyone who thinks they can do better to apply and prove it....that's my plan....stay tuned for more

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## crashdive123

Hope you get picked up for the next season.

So far, I've enjoyed watching it.  As I've stated previously, the biggest factor for most of these guys is psychological.  We all spend or have spent a lot of time in the woods.  I remember a question that Sourdough asked several years ago that went something like.... what is the longest period of time you spent in the woods alone with absolutely no human contact?  For most, the answers ranged from a few days to a week or so.  For some it was none.  If you are not accustomed to being alone in the woods - especially an area that you are not familiar with - your mind and imagination may be active in a way that is outside your comfort level.

For the guys that have left the show so far (first three episodes anyway) I believe that is the case.  Even the guy that "lost" his firesteel.

----------


## Grizz123

> These guys are supposed to know survival, right?  I have to restrain myself from yelling at the TV!  One guy's been drinking at least 10 quarts if water right from a polluted stream and was having problems...DER!  "Dude!" I want to yell, "You've got the largest amount of rainfall on the planet...and you don't have to boil it either! You know you might have thought to have included some sort of water filter in with your gear...even a "Life Straw" would be better than nothing.  And why didn't you make a weapon right from the start.  sharpen a spear point on a long branch and harden it in the fire.!  Creek Stewart can teach you about weapons.  And remember, there's no crying in Survival!
> 
> At the age of 19 I was at McCoy Wisconsin at the old Camp McCoy Army base in Job Corps.  This Vista worker started up a bunch of us camping on the weekends.  It rained long and hard every time we were out, but we managed to start a fire right away and keep it going all the time we were there!  We even caught Bullhead in the nearby lake!
> 
> Given all there facing I'd say keeping them isolated and limiting there belongings to only 10 items is not a good thing....


Water filters were not an option

Like I mentioned before, you talk a big game and should apply for season 2, show everyone how its done. It would be an easy $500k for you, heck, $250k after taxes but are you making that much now?

----------


## Rick

We all "talk a big game". That comes from years and years of practicing wilderness skills and dealing with inimical folks.

----------


## Sarge47

> Water filters were not an option
> 
> Like I mentioned before, you talk a big game and should apply for season 2, show everyone how its done. It would be an easy $500k for you, heck, $250k after taxes but are you making that much now?


Not if I can't have a water filter...besides. I'm still waiting for Creek to call!.... :W00t:

----------


## Sarge47

> hmmm...so I have applied for season 2.....having been involvedwith dude your screwed and met john Hudson and the other boys it all comes down to psycology of survival....mitch I like he goes by native survival and wayne is kullcraven bushcraft all good practiononers of survival....in there own comfort zone...and most with weapons....having spent years working with wovles and black bear my comfort level is good...cougar are still a mystery to me....I have no family so not worried about that aspect...the biggest obstacle is psycology...something I focus on quite heavily when I teach.....armchair quarterbacking is easy....I challenge anyone who thinks they can do better to apply and prove it....that's my plan....stay tuned for more


I'll be cheering you on WE!  If anybody could make it you'd be my bet!  I can't apply; I'm 68 years old now and am having leg and feet problems.  However that doesn't keep my mind from working.  I'm not saying I'd do any better, however if I were a younger man and single instead of having an invalid wife I need to take care of I might just apply.  I'd still hide a water filter on my person.  I just wouldn't be stupid enough to film myself using it.  seems to me these guys each have several tarps so making a rain catch wouldn't be that difficult.  There doesn't seem to be a limit on clothing so several bandanas and a good poncho might also help in the order of things..... :Detective:

----------


## Grizz123

> Not if I can't have a water filter...besides. I'm still waiting for Creek to call!....


I spoke to Creek yesterday, he mentioned you are overqualified and underweight for his show

----------


## Sarge47

> Hope you get picked up for the next season.
> 
> So far, I've enjoyed watching it.  As I've stated previously, the biggest factor for most of these guys is psychological.  We all spend or have spent a lot of time in the woods.  I remember a question that Sourdough asked several years ago that went something like.... what is the longest period of time you spent in the woods alone with absolutely no human contact?  For most, the answers ranged from a few days to a week or so.  For some it was none.  If you are not accustomed to being alone in the woods - especially an area that you are not familiar with - your mind and imagination may be active in a way that is outside your comfort level.
> 
> For the guys that have left the show so far (first three episodes anyway) I believe that is the case.  Even the guy that "lost" his firesteel.


I agree, panic/fear & loneliness are the two worse dangers in solo survival.  The young people that we get on here don't seem to realize that being alone in the woods for a long time can have a detrimental affect on your Psyche.... :Detective:

----------


## Sarge47

> I spoke to Creek yesterday, he mentioned you are overqualified and underweight for his show


Have to agree with you there!  BTW, This forum is all about discussing wilderness survival and "Alone" is a perfect topic.  Both my wife and I are learning things to do and not to do by watching the show.  I've no doubt that there are quite a few members on here that could go to that Island and "ace" it!  I'm not one of them, I'm too old and my feet and legs are giving me problems.  Also my wife is pretty much of an invalid so I need to be here for her.  If I was the younger, single, more daring man I used to be I might give it a shot!... :Detective:

----------


## Sarge47

My wife got this off of her Bushcraft forum site for anybody that wants a more in-depth look at what goes on in the series, note the last line...sorry WE!(unless you've already been picked.):

This is a list of everything they took that wasn't on their "list of 10 items they chose" (post 12 of this thread: http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showth...10-items/page2)
Pelican case
Blue poly tarp
Sport (?) cameras (the Go-Pros maybe? I couldn't quite make out what Sam said.)
Bean bag camera rest
Water-proof camera
Flexy-legged tripod
Microphones
Headphones
Batteries
Chargers (actually portable rechargable battery packs)
Rain cover for main camera
Main camera
Big canvas tarp
First aid kit (looks like the Mountain Series Comprehensive from Adventure Medical Kits.)
CAT Tourniquet
Bear spray
Sat phone
GPS tracker with emergency rescue button
Flare
Signal mirror
Whistle
Backpack (not in the video, but mentioned by Dustin in another thread.)
Headlamp
---------------------------------------------------------------
The deal on the tarps is each ultimately had 2 that didn't count toward the 10 items. One was heavy-duty 12x12 tarp that went with them in their backpack and the other was a lighter weight 5x7 tarp that was part of the pre-positioned camera equipment. 
It wasn't clear if they knew in advance about the smaller 5x7 tarp with the camera equipment. There was no hank of rope included for free. Cordage had to come from the 10 items they chose or what they could scavenge on the island. 
---------------------------------------------------------------
The emergency food ration was actually up to 5 pounds of mixed food in whatever form you liked. It could be cans of food, dry beans, lentils, etc. 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Once a week, the rescue crew would visit each person left and do a physical/mental checkup along with exchanging batteries and video memory cards for the cameras. 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Cast for Season 2 of the show have already been selected. 

 :Detective:

----------


## wareagle69

hey sarge where would you hide the lifestraw to sneak it on the show

----------


## Sarge47

> hey sarge where would you hide the lifestraw to sneak it on the show


Why?  Are you going on the show and need some tips?... :W00t:

----------


## Rick

Why isn't a filter allowed? As I understand it they can take anything they can pack in a small bag.

----------


## Sarge47

> Why isn't a filter allowed? As I understand it they can take anything they can pack in a small bag.


Good question Rick.  A water filter would have kept the last guy that tapped out on the show.  They're down to 5 now.  Another thing, the producers better hope to God that no one gets maimed or killed by a predator, otherwise their show will be in the toilet.  I don't care what kind of waivers might have been signed, a grieving widow in front of a jury can oft times earn a large cash award!  I think this show was poorly designed myself.... :1: 

Remember fellow members that "Naked and Afraid" recently had a casting call on here... :Devil: .

----------


## hayshaker

what i would do reguarding the critters is this i'd make the wolves my pet dogs , the bears pets or pelts that's up to them 
and the cats same same yeah thats the ticket.

----------


## crashdive123

Good luck with that.

----------


## Sarge47

Is this guy telling the truth or just making excuses?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy5GcbM8A6M
 :1:

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## kyratshooter

Nether,

He's making money, and planning on making more.

----------


## hunter63

No such thing as bad publicity........Beats showing up at the office.

It's still a TV show......

----------


## jdbushcraft

> Why isn't a filter allowed? As I understand it they can take anything they can pack in a small bag.


Where did you hear that?  Nobody from the show has said that on any of the threads I've read.  They were allowed to choose 10 items from a list.  They had to buy the items and have them approved.  Same with their clothing.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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## Rick

Heard it on here. Twice. That's why I asked. You kinda have to read the whole thread thingy to get the context. Or not.

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## Sarge47

> Where did you hear that?  Nobody from the show has said that on any of the threads I've read.  They were allowed to choose 10 items from a list.  They had to buy the items and have them approved.  Same with their clothing.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Is there a copy of this "master list" that they were allowed to choose from anywhere?  I'll double check this later but my wife was reading some status' on facebook from one of the ones that tapped out who said that they were not allowed to have a water filter.  I'll do some research on that but would really like to see that "list."... :Cowboy:

----------


## Sarge47

Chris Weatherman, who tapped out in the show, has a Facebook site under the title "Angery American,"(yes, Angery is spelled that way."  He has stated that they were NOT allowed water filters or just about any technology except for a small headlamp.  He did use his camera tarp as a rain catch however and said it worked really well!

He also said that History Channel won't post the master list despite his requests for it... :Cowboy:

----------


## Grizz123

> Why isn't a filter allowed? As I understand it they can take anything they can pack in a small bag.


They were given a list of 40 items to choose from but at this point in time, the history channel will not let them post the list

From the looks of things the list probably consisted of items the early pioneers or mountain men would have had, except for the poly tarps and ferro rods. But they would have had cotton tarps and flint/steel to make fires

On a side note, when I multi quote, I have everything I quoted in the past month or so, pop into the post, whats going on with that? Is it a new bug in the system??

----------


## Wise Old Owl

+1 So let me get this straight. I haven't see the video. Doesn't the knife have enough carbon to get a spark?

----------


## crashdive123

They're all getting sparks.  Some are doing better than others and making dry tinder and kindling.

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## kyratshooter

Yep, I'm sitting here watching the reruns and repeating the misery.

Ought to have their man-cards taken away and their Sportsman's Guide Buyers Club membership canceled!

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## hunter63

I'm sure there will be a high-light (or low lights)....so I'll wait for that.

Seems to me this is set up to fail...or so it won't go on too long.....like "Alone #1- 21 years in the making......"

So y'all keep me posted.

----------


## wareagle69

so season 2 is already filled I am on the list for season 3

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## wareagle69

that's fine gives me more time to study the show and perfect my skills

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## kyratshooter

Work real hard on the not crying in front of the camera skill, please!

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## TXyakr

My guess about water filters is that the show producers really wanted the contestants to rely on building fires to boil water. Possible that there are pathogens that most water filters do not filter out there but I doubt that. Mitch's creation and use of "char" fiber with shavings from cedar and tin was very good. His skills are the most impressive IMO. I hope he holds it together psychologically, as many of y'all have noted is the most difficult aspect. Even staying in a fully furnished cabin alone with no end in sight is difficult for most people. My best guess about Joe is that he was trying to promote his online business by going on this show. If he had made some char fiber and dried out a bow drill, spindle and board a better skilled person may have survived without a fire steel (native First Nations People did for 1000+ years), obviously put it in a safe place after each use as well, same thing with your blade and firearm (if you have those). Mitch had dry bag backpack, so I assume they all could have had one if they wanted, I have several of these, canyon bags and one small one from Columbia that fits all my sleeping gear, small tarp plus fire-starting. Can attach to MOLLE (PALS) straps of regular assault pack as well.

NEVER NEVER just set something valuable down, OMG your father should have taught and drilled that into your head when you were 5 or at least by the time you were 10 years old. If you had not learned by age 15 he should have just left you with great grandmother at the nursing home when the rest of the family went on wilderness camping trips. Just my personal opinion. Joe is not the the only fool that has sloppy habits, I have had the un-pleasure of camping with some others (even ex-military) who were worse, and left gear including cameras, PFDs, blades etc. behind and forgot to do gear checks and ground sweeps etc. OMG I hate camping with people like that!

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## jdbushcraft

> +1 So let me get this straight. I haven't see the video. Doesn't the knife have enough carbon to get a spark?


You don't need any carbon unless you are striking quartz or flint.  Ferro rods  can produce good sparks with glass.  

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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## TXyakr

> You don't need any carbon unless you are striking quartz or flint.  Ferro rods  can produce good sparks with glass.


Some people prefer to attach to the rod a steel washer or similar bit of hack saw blade (multi-use) to scrape Ferrocerium or magnesium bar with so they don't damage the coating on their knife but if you are near a sea coast glass bottles are fairly easy to find. In an area with 12+ feet of rain per year and beginning of rainy season I may have chosen a SS blade and carbon steel scraper for  ferro rod, but NOT solid Titanium diver's blade, absolutely zero sparks from that.

----------


## TXyakr

> Work real hard on the not crying in front of the camera skill, please!


Ha ha ha. I'm with you Kyratshooter. It is possible they did not on first take then producers told them if they re-shot it and put cry drops in their eyes they would get paid a $$ bonus to increase the number of woman viewers.  :Lol: 

I would need to work real hard on trying to convince my wife and kids that I missed them on every take and did not have any fun not even for 5 minutes per day. Mitch is a good actor on that bit. Make sure I video recorded removal of every single tick to make is seem like place was infested.

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## Sarge47

> Work real hard on the not crying in front of the camera skill, please!


Yeah, remember, "There's no crying in survival!"... :2:   Wonder if they're going to change locations each season?

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## jdbushcraft

Again, a ferro rod does not require carbon or steel at all.  If titanium is harder than ferrocerium it would work fine.  Most rocks with a hard edge will work.  Carbon is only important in traditional flint and steel, of which I understand that area is lacking.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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## TXyakr

A scuba diver friend told me Titanium would not work, he must have been talking about flint not ferrocerium or from something he read not from experience. I don't have a Ti knife and don't want to scratch up my Ti cook pot lid/handle but will need to try with some other bit of Ti some time, my Ti tent pegs don't have sharp edges.

What did you folks think of latest Alone episode. Performance by Mitch was very good IMO. Weathering a strong Pacific storm of cold rain with trees crashing down near by is very tough! I would be building a small, rough log hut/cabin with strong roof frame work as fast as possible! I have had tropical winds rip the roof tile and roof sections off the buildings and huts I was staying in. NOT FUN!!!

Many layers of fir branches and saplings perhaps to keep them from blowing off. I don't know? Most of my experience is with palm leaves and poles from saplings. I have let my yard get overgrown so now I have material to construct a debris/brush hut so will spend a few hours in early morning 1-3 days a week doing it. Not ideal because leaves dry up. Neighbors are always putting stuff by alley so plenty of leaves/small branches once a week to recover shelter. Fun stuff and no ranger at national forest or state park to yell at me. Truth is some private campgrounds, state parks are fine with you clearing out cat tails and brush just ask first, then put in designated area when done. i.e. beside road for easy pickup by their maintenance crews.

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## hunter63

> ....................................... Fun stuff and no ranger at national forest or state park to yell at me. Truth is some private campgrounds, state parks are fine with you clearing out cat tails and brush just ask first, then put in designated area when done. i.e. beside road for easy pickup by their maintenance crews.


Ask first...around here you even need a permit to harvest "weed worms" that grow in gall's in certain weed stems.
Cattails are a no-no....

----------


## Batch

I have camped in tropical storms and in some pretty nasty storms. That is normal weather for us during the wet season. 

 A 60 mph storm is pretty dramatic from inside a tent. When they were showing the guys inside their shelters it sure didn't look like the winds were blowing very hard outside. Or was that just my impression?

I also believe that they have given some kind of incentive to put on the water works. Otherwise who turns on a camera and says that they just spent the last 10 minutes on their knees crying. It does look like some are forcing the emotion too.

Ok, and so then there were four.

If you had to guess what is the order you would say they are leaving the island?

For me right now, I think it is this order.

Lucas (he said if he could be build a boat he would feel like he achieved something.)

Mitch (This guy seems very likable. I even have a freind who looks and talks a lot like him. But, I think the following two have personalities more suited toward isolation.)

Sam (Seems good with being alone.)

Alan (I don't know what it is. But, Alan just seems to be competitive and again he seems to be good with the isolation.)

Could be anybody's game and I am sure they are showing footage that would throw us off. But, no harm in guessing, right?

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## TXyakr

Good assessment Batch. Lucas has great skills. Frame canoe was impressive and useful but he seems to be very up and down emotionally, much of this is normal and could just be the editing by producers so not fair for me to judge over so few days. Very extreme weather and terrain/waters there, I would be very conservative about going out in a boat and building a shelter as well, i.e. small and stay close. I also wondered about putting tarps over branches/poles with knots/branches and rough spots, this seemed like it would get torn to shreds in sever weather. Hope they smoothed them off and tied down well so will it would give not rip at tie downs etc. I like to use willow.

This is also an environment where I prefer a stainless steel 5-7" blade over 1095 or similar carbon steel due to the marine environment i.e. salt spray everywhere and most of your food is from the coast no ready source of oil. I don't like brittle steel (less tough due to chromium) or the fact that it get dull fast (tiny breaks at edge) but just the facts of adapting to your environment that are part or intelligent survival that come with experience in multiple situations and geographic locations over many decades.

So repeating what I said before: comes down to psychology and adaptability. My bet is with Mitch and then Alan but I could be very wrong, I have been wrong before. Cody Lundin was they guy I thought would say on Dual Survivor and he left first, I was wrong there, wishful thinking perhaps.

Simple/short summary of blade steel types: http://www.bladehq.com/cat--Steel-Types--332

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## hayshaker

mabey they should find some crusty ole ice fishermen they like to get away from the wife
for the whole winter. oh but you would have to have a lot of beer on hand too i guess..

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## Sarge47

> Lucas (he said if he could be build a boat he would feel like he achieved something.)
> 
> Mitch (This guy seems very likable. I even have a freind who looks and talks a lot like him. But, I think the following two have personalities more suited toward isolation.)
> 
> Sam (Seems good with being alone.)
> 
> Alan (I don't know what it is. But, Alan just seems to be competitive and again he seems to be good with the isolation.)
> 
> Could be anybody's game and I am sure they are showing footage that would throw us off. But, no harm in guessing, right?


My money's on Alan staying.  He reminded me of myself when he broke out into song...it's a great way to release tension.

Sam's starting to crack, missing his pregnant wife and all.  

Lucas has mad woodcrafting skills and might hang on a bit more.  

Not sure about Mitch, but then others have already left that I thought would stay around.... :Smartass:

----------


## Batch

> My money's on Alan staying.  He reminded me of myself when he broke out into song...it's a great way to release tension.
> 
> Sam's starting to crack, missing his pregnant wife and all.  
> 
> Lucas has mad woodcrafting skills and might hang on a bit more.  
> 
> Not sure about Mitch, but then others have already left that I thought would stay around....


You know whats funny is I sing all the time also. I can't carry a tune. But, I sing all the time. LOL

I think Sam is doing what the crew told him to do. I think he is put together better than is being let on. He seems to be enjoying himself.

My thing with Lucas is I think he misses his family and am I the only one that thinks he is in a relationship with the guy they showed him going over his gear with? Just the words that he used to describe who he was leaving behind. Just an observation.

I think he was holding out for a big accomplishment so that he could go home having done something great. It seems like he has the most inner turmoil of the last 4. That could be entirely misleading through editing and theatrics.

At this point though, given the first 6 leaving. I have respect for all 4 people. I have never spent that much time alone.


Oh, when they came and picked the last guy up after the storm. Did anyone notice a lighthouse just down the beach from where he was?

----------


## TXyakr

Fairly sure Lucas was going over his gear with his younger brother in that earlier show. And yes there is a fair amount of boat traffic by all their campsites in that area. It is not as remote or "ALONE" as thé show makes it out to be. Few coastlines are. I think they fudged mile scale to fool people about where it actually is. Many fishing and logging crews there. Might not be hunting season but a lot of that activity as well part of year.

----------


## Batch

One of the guys I work and camp with is an avid fisherman and went fishing up that way with his uncle. They went by Vancouver Island and he said there were logs piled every where and that it was a pretty busy place over all.

On Lucas:




> Hes leaving behind his parents, four siblings, eight nieces and nephews and his *girlfriend*.


 I guess I was wrong. LOL

----------


## Grizz123

I'm shocked that half of the guys tapped out in 7 days or less. I expected some to go that early but not half.

----------


## TXyakr

Good point Grizz. More people should go into a National Forest Area near them during the off season like winter but NOT hunting season and spend at least a week there, with minimal gear like men on this T.V. show. I limit my self with small rucksack or WW kayak and dry bags. It is very good to clear the mind and get some physical exercise. Should have been a prerequisite for this Alone show. The 4 that remain seem fairly good. Sam exceeded my expectations,  I wrote him off to soon because he was young sloppy and seemed extremely clueless but "tent" strapped to logs appeared to hold up to gale force winds. I expected him to be under a tree with a few scraps of tarp on satellite phone calling for evacuation. Ha ha ha. Was wrong again.

----------


## finallyME

At this point, I think Alan is going to do it.  The first few shows, while everyone is quitting, he is finding food.  To me, he seems the most at ease and comfortable.  Lucas looks very comfortable as well....I think he is a wild card.  He definitely has the potential.  I think Mitch had the advantage of having to work really hard at first to find a good site with water.  It kept his mind occupied and focused.  If he leaves next, I still have respect for him.  He stayed the night after seeing a cougar in his camp.  Of course, he did the dumb thing of cooking in his sleeping area.  I think Sam made a dumb decision putting his camp right on the beach.  Those tarps won't last with all the wind.  Sam is definitely the weakest of the 4, but he may be crazy enough to stay the longest.

----------


## Batch

When Alan was in his shelter weathering the rain he sang a tune "Dum dum diddley i o i o". 

We used to listen to Alex Beaton sing this song all the time at the Scottish Festival. The Drunken Scotsman!

----------


## Sarge47

I like Alan...liked him from the start.  He seems to have it altogether.  He reminds me of me!  If anyone is going to get the booty it'll be him IMO.  To be honest, I thought that Sam would have been long gone by now!  I know he's missing his family, maybe thinking how much that money would help the family.Mitch is a weak link I think.  Lucas was teetering on the edge until he built his canoe.  Both Alan & Lucas got a bit ill from eating the seafood.  Maybe their stomachs were not ready for all that food after doing without for so long?  Boredom, loneliness, and fear/panic are the things that you can have the most difficulty with in a scenario like this one.  I was surprised nobody tapped out in the last episode.... :Cool2:

----------


## TXyakr

> When Alan was in his shelter weathering the rain he sang a tune "Dum dum diddley i o i o". 
> 
> We used to listen to Alex Beaton sing this song all the time at the Scottish Festival. The Drunken Scotsman!


About 14 years ago I told my daughter about 3 years old to go up and ask Alex Beaton when the fireworks show at the Texas Scottish Festival was going to begin. He was going on and on with his guitar. He said the people contracted to do it had bailed and run off with the money, everyone laughed or booed and my daughter has been afraid of large audiences ever since, LOL. Alex was actually better than a fireworks show. Also his son's band Seven Nations is good but they drink so much rarely make it to TX anymore. I heard their "Under the Milky Way" song on an airplane channel recently and occasionally on alternate radio stations. It is a good one to sing or listen to when sleeping out under the stars.




Make a penny whistle out of some hollow wood or deer/elk bone. Some indigenous people I lived with make good flutes from the femur (thigh) bone of a deer, it was more religious than entertainment for them, but whatever works.

They also spent bad weather days weaving baskets (for food gathering, traps for fish, other animals), making arrows, fishing spears, and many other things. Best psychological thing to do is keep busy. They cooked and ate food in separate location from where they slept, mostly due to insects but to avoid predators is another very good reason. Also clean your self off well after eating before going to sleep. Bears don't see well even in day light and at night may just bite down on what smells tasty.

----------


## TXyakr

Mitch's You tube on his 10 "Alone" items. "NativeSurvival" channel

Sorry if someone else already posted this link, he has some other videos I have not checked out yet.




Just looked at that freeze frame from video more carefully, is Mitch holding his arrow incorrectly? Are the fletchings turned 180 degrees around is he going to strip off the orange feather?

----------


## TXyakr

I have a lot of respect for Mitch and all the guys who stayed at least 18 days on this History Channel "Alone" show. Mitch especially has great primitive and bushcraft skills but he was a little slow at adapting to a new environment. I laughed at him freaking out about all the mold! (aka fungus) It is a big deal you really need to figure out how to deal with it or it eats you alive, seriously!

I have had the common species of fungus on/under my toenails, in my ears, but also under the upper layers of my skin, in my gut and growing on my hair. There are several species that grow in/on human hair, I think the type that I and several of my childhood friends had in the tropics (Amazon Rain Forest) was Black Piedra. We learned real fast to never go to sleep or head on pillow or hat on wet hair, let hair dry out after a shower or cut it very short if this is an issue. Also after swimming shake water out of ears if no alcohol and dry off in the sun, just assume water and air is full of fungus spores. Thin fast drying towel to scrap or push most off water, not sponge it off, use a stripped willow branch or whatever just get water off.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2938571/

Humans live in more environments than almost any other species of life-form because we (some of us) are highly adaptable.

----------


## Rick

@ Kyrat - You want to say a few words about what fungus, mold and mildew will do in just a few short days? I'll bet you still have fungus in places 40 years later.

----------


## finallyME

Fungus destroys canvas....  Anyways, great 6th episode.  No body quit.  Everyone is finding food and are fairly settled in.  I think it will come down to who wants it more.... either that or winter will get them.  I don't see them making many winter preps.  I know there are mild winters there....but still, what is the food availability in the winter?

----------


## goatgas

I don't see any of them making long term shelter for cold weather. Maybe they think the others will quit first so no need. I would think planning for long term survival... not just  thinking about lasting longer than the rest, would be the better choice.

----------


## TXyakr

There is also the salt and sand which destroys gear, your skin and whole body. Their bodies and gear were probably breaking down fairly fast. I have some friends that refuse to camp on the sea coast due to salty sand and what it does to gear. I try to rinse out my clothes as completely as possible to avoid rash and chaffing or whatever it is called (being miserable). People not near steep slope where fresh water came down may have had it rougher (i.e. brackish water good for food but bad for people). So fresh water rain is a blessing and a curse (fungus). If wind whips up from coast/bay it can blow salt water/mist/sand all over your camp. Bottom line it wears on you over time.

----------


## Erratus Animus

Sorry I am late to the party. I just read all 7 pages and am up to speed on everyones thoughts. 

On joe I can see where he may have been had a mental hit at the quote quote "lost his fire steel" Bunker. I have one. its 1/2" dia and 6" long so pretty hard to lose but I wasn't there so, yeah. What got me was ok he lost it but he had a fire. Why not make some char cloth or simply build the fire he had and move it when he could then look for the ferro rad again. All mute if he did use it as an excuse to leave but hey we each have our own demons to contend with.

I can confirm that Ti does throw sparks just like carbon steel. I have plenty in the knife shop and have tried it myself. As to the Rc it needs to be I don't know but Ti will not get very high on the scale. I think its in the mid to low 50's.

Some of the thing the producers have shown from the hundreds of hours of video just bewilder me. Brant being at the top of the list. Drinking moss filtered water !!! Really!!! nothing more needs to follow 

My wife and I have chosen Mitch, Alan as our favorites to go the distance with Sam being the dark horse. San is a bit of a enigma. His Bio boast some decent schools and having lived in a tent for a year in Az. Yes He is young and appears naïve but he is still here as one of four and may just surprise us. 

 As for Alan I wont give the spoiler alert but you can read his own comments in a few places that make me ask if they will call the winner on the sat phone to let him know that he has won or will they just let everyman stay till they call it quits. 

 Mitch. I don't know him but like him. I like his channel and can relate to his thoughts and ways. I would enjoy sharing a fire with them and hear their thoughts and experiences 

I too have applied and received an e-mail last week that season 2 has been filled but that my app will be kept on file.

More than anything rather than quarter-back the show its presented me with many thoughts for reflection and confirmed some things I already knew from experience being alone as well as from psychology of human nature being exposed to longterm social depravation. I think the reason it may not pay as heavy on some is because they never had the heavy social ties that the world is molding the younger generations with. As a boy and young man growing up in the country with no one my age close by, I spent most my days hunting fishing, trapping or just playing in the woods and killing snakes or building shelters. yes I had school friends and girlfriends but there was time and space separating us. I did not live on a phone or in front of a computer screen. Todays society is far more social in many ways but also detached as a sense of community that bound locals together.

Anyway hello again to my friends here who remember me and hello to those who do not. Pull up a log to the virtual fire and sit a spell. I am interested in what insights others have with the guys who have left and those that have yet to leave.

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## hunter63

Y'all let me know what happens...guess I'm burned out on watch lonely, starving, men being afraid of bears/cats and crying about missing home and family.

I can not get into this......taking way too long...my attention span is about 15 min. max for this show.

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## Erratus Animus

Hunter I think "Survivor" may have spoiled you with constant excitement and fluff lol 

How have you been ?

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## hunter63

Been good....good to see ya back.....
But have to say, that I have followed N&A more than Alone....LOL

I do still follow the grand daddy of the reality shows "Survivor".....Oh well.

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## Erratus Animus

lol I don't watch Survivor but my wife does so yeah, I really do lol You know how that is :Smile: 

Yeah its been a few years since posting anywhere. Another popular forum gave me a flag or demerit everything I said anything or asked a question concerning knives, bows and firecraft items since I once made and blades , bows and fire steels for guys there and nolonger wanted to sell on their page. Their words were once a seller always a seller and I had to buy their sub-forum store. I don't care for kool-aid and would enjoy discussing it face to face but they will make sure that wouldn't happen so I just left.

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## TXyakr

Don't read this if u did not watch last night's show.

Most important tool or gear in survival is your mind and how to improvise tools/gear. Anyone who has actually used gill nets, fish/crab traps and snares etc. knows that they are often damaged or an animal (non-target perhaps) runs off with them. Gill nets especially get full of debris or large logs wash them away even in protected eddy waters. In Mitch's case a bear may have found a fish in the net and taken the whole thing.

So bottom line make multiple fish and small game/crab/crayfish/minnow etc traps out of whatever you can find and secure so currents do not fill with debris or wash away. If not in this History Channel show you can even modify a nylon net laundry hamper to trap catfish/crayfish, it is very light attach to backpack but does not last long. Google wood slat catfish traps for better. Memphis net dot net or quick and dirty use plastic crates, zip ties, those orange cones for kids soccer practice, face entrance down stream. Eat well.

Alan's attitude and actions as shown on this episode were the best IMO. But I did not see him put rocks/weight in trap or what bait he used.

I'm not familiar with fish in that area but was that really a species of ling-cod that Lucas caught?

On Discovery Naked and Afraid XL the Narrator called an Agouti a "Capybara" which is a totally different species and much larger and different habitat. Eyes rolling back, I had a Agouti pet was given to me by people returning to America. Terrible pet BTW, but they do taste good, better than Capybara.

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## Erratus Animus

Alan did say he has never made a fish trap before nor has he fished this way so it may have not yet occurred to him , if he didn't anchor the trap, to put rocks in it. I think he did well building it having never built one before but I did wonder why he did not make a few more. 

We all have off days hunting and fishing and its a game of numbers like Sam, the dark horse, mentioned. The more traps the better the odds.

I am a bow hunter and have been since I was a teen. I killed my first deer with a recurve and have hunted with one most of my life. If it were me and from what I understand it is allowed I would be hunting game. If I could being my longbow and 6 arrows it would not be wise for a bear to be within range. Joe said in one of his exit interviews that he wouldn't shot a bear  with a bow because it would piss the bear off. This is very telling of his knowledge as a hunter. bears are quickly and humanly taken with 45lbs bows yearly. I believe the specs on the bow was your choice with a weight range between 45 and 60 lbs so well within the ability of the weapon to kill with a quality sharp broadhead to overcome the bears thick hair.

It would be good to have setup a smoker , away from the main camp and down wind of the camp, ahead of time so after the kill the meat could be processed and dried. I hate beat fat and it taints the flavor of the meat to me so cut it off and use the rest to catch crabs.

I thought it was fortunate for lucas to find the float and make the trotline.

Sam is on track with the traps but his main support stick appeared to be too tall and give the rodent time to jump back.

Mitch took a hit with the net but it may be a boon in the end if he must get out and move more.

We don't know except what we are shown whatelse the guys do. I hope they have explored more of their area. I haven't seen them preparing for the long stay in the way of processing extra wood and keeping it dry or fortifying their shelters with boughs for insulation. We know its cold them and winter is approaching so being warm and dry and having some dry wood would be prudent.

Its a mind game for sure. Not knowing what all we know and just fighting with yourself and the idea of expectations others that you care about have has got to play havoc on the psyche. If your time is not productive and focused on goals I can see it being the real enemy.

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## TXyakr

> lol I don't watch Survivor but my wife does so yeah, I really do lol You know how that is
> 
> Yeah its been a few years since posting anywhere. Another popular forum gave me a flag or demerit everything I said anything or asked a question concerning knives, bows and firecraft items since I once made and blades , bows and fire steels for guys there and nolonger wanted to sell on their page. Their words were once a seller always a seller and I had to buy their sub-forum store. I don't care for kool-aid and would enjoy discussing it face to face but they will make sure that wouldn't happen so I just left.


Well at least you did not tell the narrow minded moderators of that other forum what you really think of them and get your handle and IP address "banned" for life because no one knows what a VPN is. I don't know anyone who would do that. Ha ha ha. Good observations about the contestants in your comments above BTW. All 4 have adapted well to a difficult environment at a bad time of year but Alan appears to be doing the best.

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## Erratus Animus

I did say a few choice words to Guy and faul or whatever his name is. I am not banned but just chose to nolonger waste time trying to help and be apart of a community of ASSended elders. What a joke, really.  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

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## Erratus Animus

TXyaker I just try to think about what I would do and what is not being shown. I have learned a bit from the show and had some things I had not thought about presented. I like that aspect of it. 

We are all different people and though we share a kindred passion for the outdoors our minds process information differntly , so to see it all unfold as it does on the show in treat me greatly.  Sure we can all point out this and that  "we think is better" but the stressors they have there we don't at home.

I have said that there are two kinds of fans. Those that are blessed to play the game and those that are blessed to know what they should have done.  :Smile: 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

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## TXyakr

> Been good....good to see ya back.....
> But have to say, that I have followed N&A more than Alone....LOL
> 
> I do still follow the grand daddy of the reality shows "Survivor".....Oh well.


Technically first season of CBS's "Survivor" was in 2000 but in my opinion this is just a show about "office politics" outside with people not wearing much hanging out in an artificially primitive environment. Great for ratings because most people can relate to office politics, same if you work white collar, blue collar shop, retail or even telecommute and deal with it electronically, BUT know little about true wilderness survival.

So Les Stroud's first TV show was in 2001 (I believe) but he and many others did documentaries before that and many books.

Richard "Dick" Proenneke (died in 2003) wrote a great book "One Man's Wilderness: An Alaskan Odyssey" and some of his film was show on PBS long after he filmed it. This may have inspired Les Stroud and many others. Probably not those entertained by office politics however.

Just my personal opinions your view of these books, documentaries and T.V. shows may differ.

There are special showings of outdoor films for kayaking, rock climbing, mountain climbing etc. that a person must actually leave the comfort of their home to go see. Perhaps with friends and share some beers with before or after. This may not count as "Reality T.V." but to me it is closer to reality, but still not the same as getting out into the wilderness yourself.

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## TXyakr

EA you make a good point about 1 hour episode, producers show very little of what actually happened (not a clinic or documentary). But Alan did well, for someone who has not fished much in tidal waters or even NW. If terrain and bears allowed I would have attempted to use live minnows on hooks with sapling pole and line at the narrow places where the brackish water was still going out and the cod were schooling up in pools below waiting to go up and feed as soon as the tide turned. And if not prohibited (oops forgot to film it) I would attempt to snag a migrating COHO salmon like I was truly surviving with a rigged treble hook 3 regular tied to stick. (Note: black bears that also know this may have been thick in these spots making it risky, or it may not have been accessible without a boat or waders, i.e. standing in cold water for an hour+.) Especially at the Gulf of Mexico at these transition areas and during a transition period in the tide it is a great time to catch fish that are clustered together (redfish/drum there not salmon or cod). Illegal to bow shoot or spear game fish either place NW USA/Canada or along Gulf Coast but if surviving I would try it.

However, the principle still applies if during a drought, low water release from dam or whatever, go where the fish are concentrated, never rely on passive fishing and ignore peak fishing times, even if 2am or 2pm. Then have fire material at cooking camp/kitchen area all ready to go and eat as soon as possible. As EA said in comment #131 above, best to have smoking set up ready to go as well. Guard it well. I have seen cows eat meat off an open-air smoker, pigs for sure, obviously a bear or raccoon would. Then hang cured meat up high from tree so animals cannot get to it. He who prepared best for winter may have won, even if only mentally. Actual game is over we are just watching the edited results. It’s still fun to talk about it.

On a personal note: a few years ago I had loaned a newbie an extra pair of my chest waders because he expressed concerns about the cold water on a February canoe trip (primitive). I was wearing mine and working my way slowly along the top of a ledge (small waterfall) trying not to get swept in because waders are a dang drowning hazard. Then I looked over and there was a former Special Forces friend up to almost his neck in just a T-shirt and shorts (sandals perhaps). Holding his rod above his head as he crossed over to a great spot. I was like “What the heck am I doing, being a wimp?” “It is a sunny day and there’s no ice floating in this river.” He caught a great stinger of fish I just got embarrassed. :-)

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## hunter63

> Technically first season of CBS's "Survivor" was in 2000 but in my opinion this is just a show about "office politics" outside with people not wearing much hanging out in an artificially primitive environment. Great for ratings because most people can relate to office politics, same if you work white collar, blue collar shop, retail or even telecommute and deal with it electronically, BUT know little about true wilderness survival.............


It was never about Wilderness Survival....just Survival....like we all do everyday....and you are correct....

Quote>
Great for ratings because most people can relate to office politics, same if you work white collar, blue collar shop, retail or even telecommute and deal with it electronically, BUT know little about true wilderness survival.............<Quote.

And it did set the bar for the genre....most other show kinda copy the fake drama.

Still on, while other shows come and go.....

....And I still am on the waiting list as the "Token Geezer" willing to get voted off first....then hang out for 38 more day in the hotel sipping umbrella drinks

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## Grizz123

I mentioned this on another board but wanted to get a response from you guys on this subject. 

Do you see a relationship between Ishi and why he "got caught" and the men on Alone?

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## hunter63

> I mentioned this on another board but wanted to get a response from you guys on this subject. 
> 
> Do you see a relationship between Ishi and why he "got caught" and the men on Alone?


What do you mean by caught?....he wandered in to civilization, if I recall the story and was "alone"...so the loneliness made him come in.....?

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## Grizz123

> What do you mean by caught?....he wandered in to civilization, if I recall the story and was "alone"...so the loneliness made him come in.....?


Right, loneliness and the ability to get food. If you remember Ishi's story, he watched the white men slaughter his family and tribe, the whites were his enemies

By "caught" I mean he was very thin, starving, and the only way to stay alive was to surrender to his enemies because he didn't have the support of the tribe. The language barrier and more than likely a BUNCH of distrust towards the whites, prevented Ishi from conveying his reasons. But after watching the emotional breakdowns on "alone" (which I somewhat understand), Ishi watched his entire civilization massacred by the whites and every place he turned, he ran into those same whites. I put myself in his shoes and cant imagine the loneliness he felt.

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## Erratus Animus

We are social creations and for the most part do I believe desire acceptance, community and kindred bonds. Another lesson being that the idea of the lone survivor/woodsman is a fantasy oft glimpsed through rose colored glass from the plush comforts of our homes. We need others if we are to be truly independent.

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## finallyME

Alan was definitely strong in the last episode.  Lucas looked like he was on to something.  I think those two are the last two.  But, you never know.

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## crashdive123

Mitch, who receives a lot of praise for his Youtube vids (haven't watched them) seems to have put all his eggs (or fish) in one basket.  In an area that has a high bear density, a missing net that may have had fish in it seems to be probable.

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## Erratus Animus

I know Mitch still has his bow and 6 arrows. 4 or 5 of them with mangus buzzcut braodheads. I am hoping he goes on the offensive and hunts a bear or deer.

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## NightSG

> I think they fudged mile scale to fool people about where it actually is.


Not so much; look up "Winter Harbour, BC, Canada" on Google Earth and zoom out a bit.  It's a perfect match for their elimination maps.  Bet they can smell breakfast at the restaurant when the wind is right.

OTOH, there have to be some rules to keep them apart; water won't do it since Lucas already has a nice boat, and there are logging roads through the "impassable mountains."

The big takeaway for me is that day 8 saw 4 left, and day 31, the same four were still there.  That says if you can go a week, you can keep going a lot longer.  This is why my 72 hour kit includes a lot of things to get me to the point of sustainability with relative comfort.  90% of the durable goods I want for three days will have important uses in establishing a long term base camp and strategies for hunting, fishing, water acquisition, etc.  Essential consumables I keep separately, so I can determine at bug-out time (or when I'm leaving the car for a hike or other situation where I am more concerned about my ability to get back to it than a simple pocket kit makes me comfortable with) which will be added to the kit.  (More bottled water in summer, even more if it's a drought, extra fire starter blocks and/or bottles of HEET for wet weather, more food if resources are poor, and so on.)  Obviously, for bug-in, I've got everything there all along.

Sure, if I knew I was going to go hermit on foot, I'd have a full frame pack with crap lashed all over it, and probably a sled with bigger items, but my little day pack with a hatchet and e-tool hanging off the side bindings gives me a lot more to work with than I can fit in cargo pockets.

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## NightSG

I still want to know where Lucas got that skillet.  I don't see it anywhere on his list.

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## Grizz123

> I still want to know where Lucas got that skillet.  I don't see it anywhere on his list.


He found it at an abandoned camp site

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## DeadLeaf

I try and take everything i see on TV with a grain of salt..
Seems like there is a little to learn from some of those guys. I enjoyed the different methods of fishing, using what washes up on the beach..that kind of stuff. A bit inspiring I'd say, over all..

...but i wouldn't want to get stuck out there alone  :Ninja:  no way

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## hunter63

DL.....Guess you can cross that area off your travelers list.

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## DeadLeaf

I think i crossed it out twice but once more wouldn't hurt just to be sure I remember.. I'm too pretty for 40 below anyways 

...just saying

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## NightSG

> He found it at an abandoned camp site


Must have missed that part.  I was starting to wonder if his practice for building the boat was throwing together a blast furnace and chemistry lab to refine iron and make Teflon.

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## TXyakr

> I think i crossed it out twice but once more wouldn't hurt just to be sure I remember.. I'm too pretty for 40 below anyways 
> 
> ...just saying


Even the coast of SE Alaska does not get down to -40F according to recent human history. Perhaps you are thinking of the last ice age a few thousand years ago. The record low for Victoria on the south side of Vancouver Island was +3.7F in 1968. But if you look at the typical lows for January for North Vancouver Island and the Islands on coast of SE Alaska +20F is about as low as it typically gets at sea level. Here is an online tool for that:
https://weatherspark.com/averages/27...olumbia-Canada

I have two cousins who live on Vancouver Island, it is one of the most temperate climates in all of Canada that is why they choose to live there.

The yurt style hut that Lucus built was impressive. I think the show's producers messed with the sequence of his construction process. He probably prepared the site before he disassembled his previous open structure. Difficult to build much when you are spending most of your time living hand to mouth foraging for food during a difficult time of the year. Not sure if he is eating inside there, appears so. When he is gone foraging a bear or puma could tear the place up due to smells.

I have never eaten a "water turkey" aka cormorant, I just throw rocks and sticks at them when fishing, they dive down and spook the trout and white bass and really mess up the fishing. I have been tempted to get out a .410 or .22 and shoot the dang birds. They are everywhere it seems, but evidently not on this guy's farm in Iowa? I will dig up some photos I took of them with small fish in beaks on Reservior in Central Park, Manhattan. I have even seen them working in large groups, 20-100 birds, to school up fish then dive down and feast on them. Taste like steak when you are almost starving? I never thought of trying to catch in a gill net or with minnow on a hook. Not a game bird, considered over populated trash bird by some, but are they protected? OK to kill if you have a hunting license on private property or WMA, National Forest?

If you were ever starving in Manhattan, NYC and had a gill net you might go to the Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis Reservoir and try to catch a Cormorant there...

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I thought I had some good photos of several of these birds with small fish in their mouths but the new memory card was acting up and they failed to record properly. Disappointed.

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Not related photo but I liked this one of a hawk at Central Park we watched chase a gray squirrel with children about 50 yards behind playing. It probably would have made a kill if the humans had given it some distance.

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A "survival" show in a large city park would be fun, and very silly.

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## TXyakr

> Not so much; look up "Winter Harbour, BC, Canada" on Google Earth and zoom out a bit.  It's a perfect match for their elimination maps.  Bet they can smell breakfast at the restaurant when the wind is right.
> 
> OTOH, there have to be some rules to keep them apart; water won't do it since Lucas already has a nice boat, and there are logging roads through the "impassable mountains."


I mentioned in a previous comment that they appeared to be in the area between Winter Harbour and Coal Harbour and a clip online shows them taking off from and talking about Coal Harbour, they are obviously up in some of those sounds near there, not sure exactly where. But I have been to Vancouver Island several times and am vaguely familiar with the area. The show indicates that they were spaced about 4-10 miles apart, this may be correct but seemed a bit off to me at first. At some times of the year there is a lot of boat and small ship traffic on these waters. Once the rains start to intensify in Fall/Winter getting in and out of these logging roads is difficult but not due to snow fall as much as rain and mud most of this season. There are some mountains on island but I'm not sure they are very tall right there. One of my cousins just leaves Vancouver Island in the Fall/Winter and goes to his second home in Arizona, nice life. He sold his business for a good profit and can do as he pleases.

http://islandnature.ca/2010/02/rainf...the-wet-coast/

Compares Holberg, north of Winter Harbour, North Vancouver Island to wet parts of Costa Rica. Dirt logging roads may be "impassable" in November and December due to spike in rainfall on west coast of island. This is one reason why many sports fishermen are directed to Campbell river instead.

Smelling breakfast cooking reminds me of one time some friends and I were primitive camping on a island down river from a fancy resort hotel near Bastrop, Texas. I did not feel like filtering water from the silty river which was nasty some dead animals in it (I was in a very small kayak not at canoe). So I paddled up to the resort filled up about a gallon or so of canteens and went back. Friends gave me a hard time. I told them the staff there was very nice because I acted like I was a paid guest. I helped my self to the breakfast buffet, had the chief made me a great omelette, some fresh Belgium waffles with fresh strawberries, bacon and sausage, Starbucks coffee. Then I took a warm shower. They laughed and remembered that one for a while.

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## Erratus Animus

Yes they are still protected but with their exploding number across the US from both what I have read and from what I have witnessed personally in North La, I don't believe them to be needing that status. I have stood and watched literal 1000's fly over for several minutes till the last one went past me. 

Lucas appear to be doing well if he can keep it together mentally or not roll his boat over.

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## TXyakr

That is interesting EA. I just learned on the internet that the various  Cormorant species and Anhinga (commonly called snake bird and water turkey) are not closely related. I have never shot or trapped either. Both are just a minor nuisance and fun to watch if I am not trying to catch fish. So cormorant will NOT be on next Thanksgiving table but how about the invasive Anhinga? LOL

Can you put a ring around their necks and train them to catch fish for you? Or are they being protected as well?

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Anhinga/id

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/D...d_Cormorant/id

BTW if you ever jog around White Rock Lake Dallas there is a section NW that is covered in Cormorant droppings that smells like rotting fish, DON'T look up, slip and slide your way thru there as fast as you can. The entire loop around the lake is about 9 miles. So no harm if you just skip that section or go a little further and take the road around the longer way to avoid it.

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## Erratus Animus

I have had them throw up on me before while in Chennie lake. Its pretty rank.

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## Grizz123

> Must have missed that part.  I was starting to wonder if his practice for building the boat was throwing together a blast furnace and chemistry lab to refine iron and make Teflon.


Joe (the guy that lost his firesteel) keeps in touch with the other guys and when he saw the frying pan in that episode, he texted and asked about it.

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## Batch

TXyakr,

Both the double breasted cormorant and the anhinga are protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. Both are very common birds here in Florida. I have caught anhingas on fishing gear. We use shiners for live bait and occasionally an anhinga will take the bait. Unhooking them is a real treat as they try to impale you hand with their beak! 

I don't recall ever hooking a cormorant.

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## WalkingTree

Oh how funny, I was just about to post a thread about the kind of show that I'd actually enjoy watching or maybe be worth being in...and then I finally check out this thread - this show is actually a little interesting to watch. (I'm always interested in general stucture, goal, rules, and criteria for a show, among other things.)

I didn't bother looking at this thread because I don't even bother with survival shows anymore. They suck. And I don't get this channel anyway either...so I'm just now doing searches to check out this show and I'm behind everyone in here. I'm afraid that I won't be able to find every episode. Dagnabit, just when I gave up on these stupid shows.

Oh, I have SO much commentary, just on the first episode. And ya'll and the show are way ahead of me anyway, so I'll not bother on all the commentary. But oh boy, some of these guys, wow.

Oh and...that is such beautiful country. Mmmm...

*post edit for question:*

Oh man, they're not going to let us see the list of 40 from which they had to choose? Can't find it...thought one of you guys pointed to where this is, can't find that at the moment from where I'm at, but was that just lists of what they chose instead of the 40 they had to choose from?

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## Rick

> Unhooking them is a real treat as they try to impale your hand with their beak!




(Sigh) On the list.

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## NightSG

> BTW if you ever jog around White Rock Lake Dallas there is a section NW that is covered in Cormorant droppings that smells like rotting fish,


Oh, you mean the more pleasant smelling part of the loop.

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## Batch

You ever take your boat under an anhinga in a tree over the water? Best to give them a wide berth as they evacuate the bomber door for an emergency take off. LOL

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## Erratus Animus

> *post edit for question:*
> 
> Oh man, they're not going to let us see the list of 40 from which they had to choose? Can't find it...thought one of you guys pointed to where this is, can't find that at the moment from where I'm at, but was that just lists of what they chose instead of the 40 they had to choose from?


Mitch said they are all under contact not to reveal the items on the list. Other than watching the videos on what each man bought and deducting those items we don't know. Most all of them chose the same items, I watched all of their videos, save for a few differences. Mitch did say that some of the items on the list were obvious not to choose. His Gore-Tex bivey and sleeping bag count as 2 items even though they are used in conjunction so we can assume there are other items like that on the list that while we would see the practicality f may have not rated as high of a pic with a limit of ten only.

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## WalkingTree

I don't think I recall anyone got some kind of mini-shovel (or fold up). A mini shovel of some kind is one thing that I personally like. I wonder if that was on their list they had to choose from.

Why in the world would not telling us the options they chose from be a concern?

Nobody took anything like betadine either (?) Fo Rizzel?

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## TXyakr

EA I also heard him say very clearly those things about the limited list of items and some very strict specifications on many of them like size of pot, bow and arrows, fishing kit, net size etc. They seemed to be fairly generous with the cheap plastic tarps however, there are a lot of different things you can do with these. Lucas demonstated several. Poncho, roll up with evergreens for bed pad, collect rain water, funnel game or sea creatures or fish to trap or basket, suspended bear resistant bag, tear to strips and weave net or fish trap...
If plastic tarp get a hole or you want to fuse two pieces together it takes some practice but possible to use an improvised iron of Stainless Steel pot (not teflon) filled with hot coals and put a moist cotton fabric between so that plastic does not melt to bottom of pot. This way no need to stitch the tarp material to patch or fabricate poncho, fish net, basket, bucket. An electric clothes iron is easier but where they are it would require a long extension cord. LOL.

Given enough time you can make a shovel and clam rake out of wood with your knife and an axe. There are some fairly hard woods there. Also with a little luck some human made trash on the beach. A log staple would be handy and fish nets, buoys, ropes, etc. I have found some interesting trash in some of the most remote places.

Lucas made a primitive canoe paddle with wood using his knife and axe I am assuming, a shovel is not much different. The producers may have even given them small trowel to use for cat-holes if the land owners or provincial regulations required it. Human solid waste can attract bears and other critters so there are often regulations or recommended guidelines to discourage bears or in my region feral hogs from associating people with a warm fresh meal.

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## WalkingTree

Yea a pointed stick and my hands can do some shoveling, I guess. I wonder though if show producers or anyone else thought of shovels or something like betadine for their list. Sad that our trash is everywhere even where there aren't people. Does make emergency survival situations that much easier though.

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## crashdive123

If I could only bring 10 items, a shovel would not be one of them.

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## madmax

> If I could only bring 10 items, a shovel would not be one of them.


Maybe some tires...

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## TXyakr

> Sad that our trash is everywhere even where there aren't people. Does make emergency survival situations that much easier though.


Trash that is thrown from or blows out of vehicles and trailers from backyards and parking lots of shopping centers etc. can wash down ditches into small streams across lakes over spillways down rivers and out into the ocean into the gyros and eventually some of it will end up on beaches all over the world. However, most of it is buried in the sediments along the way. I help out with many river and lake clean ups through out the year. People who come to volunteer are mad at the people just at that lake or wherever we are. I try to explain the trash could have come from 50-100 miles away. A plastic bag you find high in the mountain could have come from a road 20 miles below, not likely but possible they catch hot air and float like balloons on some days. Mylar balloons in trees may actually have come from 50 miles away on a good day. After I paddle under a highway bridge the amount of trash including car and truck tires and large household appliances always increases, also cars and truck frames and sometimes whole vehicles. But it is the tiny bits of styrofoam and plastic that small fish eat then a bird eats them, then an land predator or raptor, this trash kills its way all up the food chain that may be worse than an old TV thrown into the river. I have a photo some where of a block of styrofoam about 3 feet by 6 feet with several salvia plants growing on it. Floatation from an old dock that got dislodged during a flood. A survivor could make a raft with some of these huge blocks of styrofoam.

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## NightSG

> I have a photo some where of a block of styrofoam about 3 feet by 6 feet with several salvia plants growing on it. Floatation from an old dock that got dislodged during a flood.


Out around Brownwood, we had a few customers losing their dock floats to nutria.  They would ignore the foam or plastic and gnaw on the wood around the attachment points.

Litter isn't a new problem either; hiking with a friend at my mom's place, we ran across a spot near the fence line at one county road where we could have built a beverage container timeline of the county's history from the empties people had tossed over our fence.  Everything from punch top cans (the ones you needed an opener for) to pull-off-tabs to current production.

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## WalkingTree

crashdive - You'd have no use for a shovel? That's something I'd use. But yea 10 items ain't much...though, when they get that plus clothes, they sure got it easy compared to the naked and afraid bunch. Makes it more interesting too when the N & A folks would often go the 3 weeks, but in alone we lost 6 people after 9 or so days (?), 3 or so within about as many days. They seemed to drop fast and early. Like you or sarge said, I always wonder how they vet these people. one of the reasons I'd seriously hesitate to do one of these shows myself is because I know the show producers have criteria that don't totally match what it's about - primitive survival.

madmax - Tires? Why?

And yea, arg, our trash. Hard for me to believe that there was a time when people casually threw garbage out of their cars by the sack full on the highways, and we had to implement a movement to get people to stop littering.

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## crashdive123

Never said I wouldn't have use for a shovel - it's just not in my top 10 list.  Probably not my top 30 list.  The tire reference is an inside joke between MM and I from our last camping trip together.

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## NightSG

> Never said I wouldn't have use for a shovel - it's just not in my top 10 list.


It should be; what if you meet Bear Grylls out there and don't have a shovel to pound him repeatedly with?

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## hunter63

> It should be; what if you meet Bear Grylls out there and don't have a shovel to pound him repeatedly with?


You use the shovel to dig a well every night......DUH

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## NightSG

I've thought of the perfect survival show; use the format of Mission: Survive, but all the contestants are TV survivalists.  Especially BG.

Real ego battles, without the pathetic squealing when somebody has to light a fire or whack a bunny for dinner.

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## WalkingTree

> It should be; what if you meet Bear Grylls out there and don't have a shovel to pound him repeatedly with?


Ok, that's funny right thar.

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## crashdive123

Trust me when I say.......I don't need no stinkin shovel to do no pounding.

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## Erratus Animus

A few post back I called Sam the dark horse and he has proven to be just that. The 22 year old has made it to the final 2 by virtue of a generally positive attitude and mental strength all the while embracing the suck to stay another day. 

Mitch's tap was wrenching for me. I am just making a guess here that his mother may have a gleblobastoma brain tumor. From what Mitch described about its onset, the survival rate and the limited months to live after detection that is what I am thinking. My brother went through the same thing. His tumors were gleblobastoma's as well. At the time of his diagnosis survival rate was 5% after a year and 0% after at 1.5 to 2 years after detection. Now with the use of HIV as a carrier there have been several cases completely cured within weeks and in the one or two that the tumor was not killed or eaten away its growth was stopped completely. Hearing Mitch talk about his mother so reminded me of my brothers battle and I put myself in Mitch'es place , asking would I have gone knowing that he would be gone when I came home. Would I be willing to give up the short remaining time with my brother for the chance at 500k and the opportunity to change my families life? Mitch made the right decision in my book. Even though my brother had but 10 months left to live those months were spent with him , crying, laughing and forgiving leaving nothing unsaid in the in so that at 3:15 am on Christmas eve morn when he pasted from this world into the next I was there right beside him and in the end my family was changed as well. Now we are the keepers of his memory and if we do not share his life with our younger family members who will? Its no different for any of us really. That episode hit me square in the chest and really cemented in my mind for common we all really are. Wow I guess I just had to get it off my chest. Mitch nothing but respect brother and to your family as well through all that is to come.

I have to say that I did not see Lucas as one of the ones tapping in tonight's episode. It does appear that there has come a point in all of their existence on the island that has become mundane and from what they are saying has transformed their thinking in many ways yet the ways all seem to be similar. Salt and seasoning dress their guarded words now. the rolling wellspring of exuberance that was once there has not become strained and broken by paused of thought as the words trickle forth. Sometimes in non sensible gibberish as in the case of Lucas and his songs, but to him with eyes to see and ears to hear they belie the state of thought he is truly in. I would really like to hear their thoughts after a time they have refreshed and off camera given proper time to reflect if what they came to realize has held true now that they have returned.

Alan is still the favorite for me and he is without doubt a very intelligent and analytical person. Measured and calculating has kept him sharp but seeing the physical change in his body in tonight's episode reveals just how much stress his body is experiencing from the total onslaught of the freezing temps. A normal adult male needs approx. 2000 cal a day but add to that the physical and mental stress he now has and the calorie destroying cold he is constantly exposed to ,i.e. the ice inside his shelter, and the lithe small amount of food he has taken in is not even enough to make a dent in his caloric deficit. He is facing a real struggle, one I have never come close to and can only imagine based on his words and from others that have endured in the wild or in prisons. 

All in all thus far has just been an emotional roller coaster for me. I am not one for much tv nor any drama/ reality shows at all but tonight was personal and hit home giving me pause to reflect and to think of the sad times to come for Mitch and his family. All of that said Neither Mitch nor Lucas are diminished in my mind and both did mighty well. If this show has proven anything is that we truly are social beings and can survive better when we are not Alone.

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## TXyakr

Well put EA. People who have not gone through similar experiences of loss cannot relate. Also if you have not solo camped for extended periods of time or in an climate like N-V.I. you cannot grasp the significance of the vast difference between this show and Discovery Channel’s N&A. (not better just different) That was all discussed in earlier comments on this thread. Survival is 99+% boring.

Sam has much better skills than some people give him credit for. I have noticed that most wild game will not let you get nearly as close in the true wilderness as they do in the city or suburbs. Therefore hunting close range with a bow and arrows is difficult on this part of Vancouver Island. Also there are a lot of predators there so competition for these prey animals is high, it isn’t suburbia or a state park. In Texas if you win the lottery for a permit to hunt wild game at a State Park (regular campers are not allowed then) it is like shooting fish in a barrel, some deer will eat corn out of your hand, more spooky during the rut obviously. I should post a photo here of about 20 deer surrounding me trying to eat out of my hand, NOT a smart thing to do BTW it really ticked off some other campers but was on a Monday few humans there.  DON’T DO IT!!! All total there were about 60 deer near by that is what drought can do, poor starving critters.

I will not make light of the decisions of Mitch or Lucas but as many, many people have said that survival is mostly psychological. If you allow your mind to run in circles and come back to the reasons for quitting it will only increase the chances that you will. Better to focus on the reasons and methods you need to pursue to stay and stick it out. Focus on plans for the pay off and how you will use it wisely. How can I best invest the $500K after tax? Like teaching a bush pilot to land on a sketchy landing strip: if you focus on the trees you will hit them, instead focus on the where the wheels need to touch down. I try to do explain this to newbies on white water paddling canoe and kayak, “see the line thru not the rocks!” “Choose your line.”

Evidently the “line” Lucas chose was to prove something to his family and friends. Hopefully he will learn to live for his own goals and not seek the approval of others as he becomes more mature.

Edit: I observed in college that many of the kids that quit and did not even finish a 4 year degree had the brains and their parents had the money but they thought everyday about quitting far to often and therefore finally did. Others struggled far more than they did both financially and academically but graduated. Similar psychology applies to survival and making it out alive, your will power is often the most important thing.

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## TXyakr

A little off topic but if a person has health issues that prevent them from living in the wilderness alone to experience that a "Silent" Monastery may be an option. This is a good one:

http://christdesert.org/Monastery_Guesthouse/

"Christ in the Desert" is down a dirt road only accessible by 4WD if it has been raining or a lot of snow in the winter, and is right beside the Rio Chama in Northern New Mexico. Very little talking by anyone there. There are even signs on the river asking the rafters and kayakers to be quite. Then you can hike up into the wilderness during the day and find even for "alone" quiet time which is great therapy in this hectic life. So turn off you mobile phone, be quiet and don't speak to anyone for a full week. Winter time is a great time to go. One way to get there is to fly into Santa Fe and rent a 4WD jeep. If you need a break from the silence you can go visit the Ghost Ranch if you are a fan of Georgia O'Keeffe and be up to your elbows in tourists.

http://www.ghostranch.org/explore/georgia-okeeffe/

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## Erratus Animus

The only thing I will add and I am hesitant but I think it also plays a much larger role than most want to admit and that is that I don't think any of these guys are hunters. If they are then maybe their hunting grounds are as rich as those in Texas, been there and man the deer are like rats in New York! Here in La hunting on family land and on the WMA's is far from a sure thing. Being diligent, calculating and persistent are virtues needed to be successful year after year with a bow. I was fortunate to have grown up shooting a recurve or longbow all my life and have taken far more than just deer with them year after year. 

 Subsistence trapping has been apart of my grand fathers life out of necessity and those skills come from doing and not just reading or practicing a concept, but today with food being so easy to acquire or prepackaged for our convenience I think we oft take for granted how hard food is to come by when we have to procure it ourselves.  Lack of knowledge about botany, fishing, trapping and hunting and the lack of serious study and doing has fostered up a false since of security in many whos rose colored lens taint the harsh truth that Nature is an environment where the foolish and ill prepared come to die.

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## Sarge47

This is Not about survival, it about extreme homesteading.  these guys have found their island paradise more like a green prison.  The loneliness is killing them and it's something to remember, however it's not survival. In a true survival situation you're stuck until you are lucky enough to be rescued, these guys have a lifeline..ergo a sat phone that they can call for extraction anytime they want.  They are told in advance how much and what kind of gear they can take where a prudent person trained in survival would have taken additional items, more to the point of lasting longer, like a book or two or a deck of cards.  They may have also tried to hook up with others.  I've learned some things from watching this, like *NEVER* get involved in a reality show!... :Scared:

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## TXyakr

I agree with you Sarge47 this History Channel "Alone" comes closer to my definition of primitive living than survival which would be to get back to civilization or at least an area with better resources and some people. The artificial rules of a "reality show" (oxymoron) dictate that they stay there in a bad situation and not try to be rescued even though they have the means, because they want to win the game and the reward.

One of my major reasons for not doing any so called "reality TV" show is that I don't want a camera in my face and then some off hand comment or a bunch of them shown on TV for thousands or millions of viewers to see and possibly live on for decades on YouTube. The internet never forgets! No amount of money can erase making an fool of yourself on TV. Once when I spent a year in S-California (4th grade) I told some kids about something I did and ate in the Amazon jungle, and then horror of horrors my father was asked by the teacher to come speak to the class. Those suburban nerds never let me forget that I was different than them. Should have just shut up and acted as normal as possible. People who live boring lives get jealous and act nasty in my experience.

EA some parts of Texas are infested with deer but not all. Out west where it has been very dry they are not common far from water. And most are small compared to OK and states further north. Other note about N-V.I. is that when the resources like water and vegetation are abundant for wildlife like deer and rabbits they can move out of an area were a human is camping fairly quickly and they men were not very mobile. But I wondered how good they were at tacking animals especially looking for signs of small game, speculative tracking as well. I.e. where would you expect a squirrel to be what would they be eating and living in?

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## Erratus Animus

I understand your thoughts on the word survival and yes they have an out however they must still do the same things as would be needed to survive as if it were the truth was they were there till rescued. There is always something to be learned or gained but you must be open to learning.

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## NightSG

> All of that said Neither Mitch nor Lucas are diminished in my mind and both did mighty well. If this show has proven anything is that we truly are social beings and can survive better when we are not Alone.


This; frankly, I was disappointed with six taps in eight days, but impressed that the rest held on well past the first month.  That's really the point where I would call survival sustainable, and it's really just down to the deeper psychological factors (or unforeseen emergencies - doubt any of these guys could get through even a sprained ankle with the pure day-to-day existence they've got) by then.  I have to wonder how this show would go with couples, whether preexisting couples or random pairings.

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## Erratus Animus

I wondered the same things with the couples as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

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## Sarge47

> I understand your thoughts on the word survival and yes they have an out however they must still do the same things as would be needed to survive as if it were the truth was they were there till rescued. There is always something to be learned or gained but you must be open to learning.


Perhaps, but at the back of everyone's mind on the island there's that thought:  "Hey, I can leave anytime I want."  they know that they're just one phone call away from leaving the situation.  In a true survival situation you long for rescue and have to deal with the psychological consequences of that as well.... :Cowboy:

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## Erratus Animus

Sarge I don't disagree with ya . I do think most rational and practical people understand that but the word survival has come to mean several things to modern society. The show is just to see how long some guys can stay with a few hitches. No one would , atleast I hope not anyways, be so ignorant to willing choose only 10 items to try and survival for a period or homestead as per your view. Semantics either way since it is a planned event with an out via the phone a friend.

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## WalkingTree

I'm late to this party...I don't get to watch these while they are first airing nor comment about them till even later...and some of what I'd say has already been said...but I have a couple of points to disagree on, though it's not to disagree or argue but only to do my part in offering different perspectives...

Sam was one of who I thought I liked, though he was seen as immature by some in here. Liked his attitude and disposition. And Alan is definitely someone who I had a good intuition about early. That dude's attitude and dispostion is amazing. One of whom I personally relate to a little. There were a couple others who I felt the same way about, but was wrong. Tapped out early and seemingly easy. Couldn't tell you now what their name's were. Was almost embarrassed for the guy who lost his firestarter, because I swear he was just trying to make an excuse for tapping...he said himself at first ("need to nurture the fire that I have") and while he was complaining on camera that he couldn't make fire anymore, that fire was burning in the background. All the while him saying that he can't make fire now, so what am I gonna do? He wasn't even going to try to at least go for as long as he could keep that fire going. Very defeatist.

Yea, ALONE wasn't survival, or rescue, but more on the homesteading end of the spectrum. Dual Survival and Dude You're Screwed is more about rescue, including self-rescue...Naked & Afraid was about simply holding on for an extended/delayed rescue and being literally butt naked having almost nothing, but it often ended up with them just sitting around letting the days tick off till the 3 weeks passed, and if it were real, if they weren't getting rescued after 3 weeks, they'd be dead...Alone is more homesteading, but I'd say kind of a survival or primitive homesteading, there till they're the last one but not staying otherwise. Not totally uselessly naked, but not with all that much either if they were going to dig in for life. Trying to just hang on, but by carving out a home and living nonetheless, even if it is for a finite period of time.

Yes, hunting skill, butchering, and plant knowledge is vital. It can turn out that you're good at shelter, fire, and finding and processing water in the first few days (not to say that they don't require talent, but I see CONSISTENT food acquisition as being harder)...but if after that you can't find food, that's bad. These are the areas where I'm lacking the most - plant knowledge and hunting/butchering experience. I've done a little, and know a few things concerning plants, but I know that I don't know nearly enough nor have quite enough experience. I would cite the fact that I've mostly been successful at being a quick study, have good intuition, and am innovative...but I wouldn't bet any money on it making me successful in a primitive survival scenario. That's part of the good sense that I do have - I know that I wouldn't bet any money on it concerning those areas.

At a place where I lived once, there were a dozen deer within 100 feet of the front porch every morning, and you could count up to 50 pairs of eyes while driving down the dirt road at night...but as soon as hunting season began, almost nobody could find anything. The thunder of the black powder portion of the season didn't seem to sound very often. And in those parts I know that there was a lot of black powder out there.

And it's a tricky question - do something alone, or with others. Some do badly in solitude, and a group can help each other a lot...but at least with the t.v. shows (though maybe not in all real-reality situations), the social dynamics often suck badly. In groups or pairs, how they interact with each other and their attitudes are SO bad. Unbelievably aweful. What ruins it for me within the first few minutes in most shows is how the people start acting with each other so easily and early and over practically nothing at all. Downright pitiful. They seem so insecure, confrontational, and negative, instead of positive and productive and constructive in their interactions.

PSYCHOLOGY

I was going to say some of this in the thread about psychology, but I'll put it here for now...

This is an area where I think that I have most people beat. And I can't even understand or relate to much of what I see and hear about.

This is not to say anything against people with families and strong social connections though, and how it affects some versus how it affects me. But...concerning the solitude, monotony, boredom, being spooked by the outdoors and your vulnerability or feeling clausterphobic, etc...These are things which I just can't relate to. They seem alien to me. And my following views on how I'd do is not because of a naive romantic idea...this is just how I know I would be "out there".

I've said it before in here - I would love something like this NOT because I'd be trying to get away from something, but because I'd like being in the other world that the wilderness is. I am not anti-social, and am quite socially adjusted, and am very comfortable and successful socially. On the one hand, I am not introverted, in fact I'm decent at extroversion...but on the other hand, I don't "need" people so much just for the sake of their presence - I don't depend upon people for my identity or psychological health or happiness.

The "boredom", or "monotony"...that's just not how I see it. That's not how it feels to me. When I'm locked in my shelter for days because of the weather like it's a tomb...yea, I get tired of that. But it doesn't "bother" me or freak me out. I don't begin to hate being out there. I don't "miss" anything. I don't see anything to be bored from. I instead still love it. Versus people being spooked by the woods at night, or the harshness of the lifestyle, I see it as wonderful. All that stuff is what I'm there FOR. Doing what you have to do takes lots of time...I enjoy doing the basics instead of feeling like they're a chore. And if I have time on my hands, believe me I'll be working on something that I see as fun, all by myself. Improving my survival protocols, my situation. Carving a totem pole, making a drum and pounding on it for hours, watching and listening to the flora and fauna and getting to know it better - which would help my survival attempts. It's not lonely or quiet or peaceful...it's noisy with other things, other kinds of life which is why I'm there. The woods at night is cool, not scary or claustrophobic. Even when vulnerable and with dangerous predators around. And I don't have the mood swings between being negative and defeatist from a lack of success at something and rediscovered enthusiasm when successful.

I definately respect everything from mosquitos to cougars, trust me on that...but I don't fear them. There is very much a difference. You fear something, you're in trouble. You don't respect something, you're in trouble. So this helps my disposition I'm sure. This isn't to say that my fear wouldn't try to overwhelm me all on it's own when a bear is staring at me too intently, I'd be stupid to say otherwise...but I'm pretty sure that I'd respond out of more than panic and be prepared as well.

So...one mistake that I see often in shows like ALONE - They are trying to do what they need to do because they have to; because that's what's required to participate on the show, like they are a chore. Instead, a person should be wanting to live primitively in the wilderness, because they want to do that and because they enjoy it, and because they truly enjoy that environment. Not because that's just what they have to do because they're on the show. So they often approach their endeavors with such subconcious loathing, "oh do I have to ma?" attitudes, and defeatist mindsets, because they're not thinking of it or are there because they want to do it, but instead they're just there to either "win" the show or prove something to themselves or their family/friends.

Sorry for the long post...please don't throw vegetables at me.

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## TXyakr

I watched the final (10the episode of Alone season 1) last night it was good with many words of wisdom from Alan who has earned the right to give them in my opinion. I will admit I fell asleep at least once during the first hour and had to rewind, TV does not agree with me at that hour and I typically wake up at dawn or before. 99% of wilderness survival is boring even to me.

Sam earns a great deal of respect from me as well. I strongly dislike flapping tents and tarp in strong winds, and cannot imaging enduing that sound for 4 days straight, WOW!! He must be very concerned about falling trees, and uncertain about how to construct a sturdy shelter to deflect them.

Other concern is that even for a very healthy person typically after about 40 days the lack of good nutrition and basically a near starvation diet can cause permanent physical injury that will last the rest of their life. So about 56 days was pushing it. I have two friends in Brazil who grew up very poor and malnourished they are both very nice people but have some brain damage due to it. I was not quick on my feet when doing a Skype interview with TV Mark but he basically asked me what I would be willing to risk to demonstrate my Faith on a Survival show. I think that would be one big thing. Also being very cold and wet because that can kill a person in less than an hour in extreme conditions even in the tropics or in a desert after the sun goes down. I have been very close to my body core temperature spiraling down below 96.6F both in the Amazon Rain Forest on rainy nights and in the California High Desert without enough insulation. Alan with a 40F degree summer time Sleep bag in the winter on North Vancouver Island had it very bad. So great respect to him for sticking it out and building the best shelter to help in that situation despite the uncomfortable cramped design of it.

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## Winter

I enjoyed the whole season.

I was hoping for Alan to win. He maintained a sense of humor throughout.

Sam's most important trait was his positive attitude.

I find it very interesting and enjoyable that a sense of humor turns out to be more valuable then a positive attitude. 

Discussing the show with my friends tends to gravitate towards why these guys stopped improving their shelters. Your shelter should continually improve.

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## TXyakr

> Discussing the show with my friends tends to gravitate towards why these guys stopped improving their shelters. Your shelter should continually improve.


That is an excellent point. The simple answer may be that during that most difficult part of the year (Fall-Winter) for that area all the fair weather days must be used foraging for food. However, Lucas built several shelters and if you watched the 2nd hour last night when the 3 contestants commented on the last episode they discussed how they were surprised that Sam stayed in his tent shelter out in the open the entire time, never moved to a more weather protected area. Sam either had no more cord or did not see the benefit of tying down the flapping plastic tarp or adding fir branches for insulation. That seemed strange. The men commented on that. Hunger can cause a person's brain not to work well but it may be that at age 22 Sam just had very limited experience.

My camping friends often bug me about all the time I take setting up and messing with a very simple tarp that I sleep under. But there are an infinite number of ways to configure it and always new ways I want to experiment with rather than just sit around the campfire and chat for hours BEFORE the sun goes down. Same thing with a simple rod (sapling), line and set of hooks, infinite number of ways to catch fish with just those 3 items.

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## NightSG

> Discussing the show with my friends tends to gravitate towards why these guys stopped improving their shelters. Your shelter should continually improve.


This; unlike the "pick up and run" mentality of all the other shows, Alone is focused on staying put.  Once you've established a base camp, that's where every bit of effort not devoted to food, water and rescue should go.

I might overlook stopping after you have a flush toilet and microwave.

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## Winter

My area is much like Vancouver Island except 600 miles north of there, LOL

Here's a shelter for a 4 day trip.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

It was really windy so we started building walls out of sticks and moss. You can see one left center, the other is not visible behind that stump. If you have a tarp, use it for overhead and build your walls. That way you have way more dry interior space.

By the time we left, there was a wall on the right edge of the shelter as well.

I know, "leave no trace", but around here, your shelter frame could save someones life in an emergency.

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## NightSG

> Sam either had no more cord or did not see the benefit of tying down the flapping plastic tarp or adding fir branches for insulation. That seemed strange.


Looks like he had at least three tarps, (brown canvas main shell with green poly on top and blue poly in back) so piling some bulk between the brown and green would have done wonders to silence the flapping and insulate the heck out of the shelter.  If he was out of cordage, then gathering some fiber plants during his ventures outside would have allowed him to put the time in the shelter to good use.  Doesn't look like there's anything as good as yucca or grapevine out there, but there are obviously some grasses that could be spun or braided for the lengths he'd need to lash more shelter coverage together.

Alan had the right idea with a tiny shelter to retain heat, but a larger sheltered work/staging area near the main sanctum would have expanded both of their possibilities a lot.

I liked Sam's comment that it had been a "big kick in the butt into adulthood."  I bet it does have a major positive effect on him for the rest of his life, and I wish we could all have some serious rite of passage like a couple months in a harsh wilderness around that age, since it seems to be about where most people are finally forced into adulthood in modern society.  (A quick look around a college campus will show you that it's sure not happening before age 20.)  I wonder how many would actually last two weeks, considering 60% of these guys didn't.

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## TXyakr

Winter I noticed in your photo that you had a large Ice Chest, propane heater, and firearm, 3 items that were not even on the list of available items for the men of Alone to select from. These would have freed up some time for them to work on their shelter, also if they were camping out in the summer not winter.

Dogbane is one of the most popular and useful plants for making natural cordage in North America, not certain that it grows in this part of Vancouver Island but even it takes a lot of time, energy and skill to form into viable cordage.

http://www.primitiveways.com/hemp_dogbane.html

All I can figure out about Sam is that he just thought that his youth would allow him to tough it out and it did get him past 8 others. But I have seen older men hike or paddle past much younger men who were very inconsistent like the hare versus the tortoise. The younger go fast but are not steady or wise and experienced.

Edit: Going off to University and or the Military is a fairly good rite of passage for most people. I am concerned that today this is just not possible and it is much more economical to take classes online. Also less than 1% ever serve in combat even during major military operations like Iraq and Afghanistan. But after both boys and girls have leaned the basics of camping there is no reason they cannot camp for a long weekend or more solo. Just take a phone or PLB to signal for help if injured or have someone hike by to check on them from a distance. Many scouts do this. Alan made several good comments about the therapeutic benefits of this. I generally remove the battery from my phone and put it in a dry bag. There is no signal tower anyway, I would need to climb to a tall ridge to get one. When I am taking a group of kids, I check out detailed coverage maps to have an idea of which ridge lines might be best and where the closed roads are to hike to. Also in some very remote areas we take a satellite phone or PLB, but rescue could still take hours or even a day or two.

Funny story: once I went on a 2 night primitive camping river trip and used a very short wide kayak that was very difficult to paddle into strong winds from a tropical storm coming from the Gulf of Mexico. Almost all the others were way out in front of me far down the river beyond my sight around the river bends etc. I paddled steady and was certain they had all gotten to the camping island before me and I was a little ticked off, this was a group I had never camped with before. But most of them had taken breaks up side creeks and under tree branches etc., I had passed them and not realized it.

----------


## Winter

> Winter I noticed in your photo that you had a large Ice Chest, propane heater, and firearm, 3 items that were not even on the list of available items for the men of Alone to select from. These would have freed up some time for them to work on their shelter, also if they were camping out in the summer not winter.
> 
> .


I was on a hunting trip in November. My post was more an example of site improvement, not comparing a 4 day hunt to a 56 day survival trip.

----------


## Batch

> I have camped in tropical storms and in some pretty nasty storms. That is normal weather for us during the wet season. 
> 
>  A 60 mph storm is pretty dramatic from inside a tent. When they were showing the guys inside their shelters it sure didn't look like the winds were blowing very hard outside. Or was that just my impression?
> 
> I also believe that they have given some kind of incentive to put on the water works. Otherwise who turns on a camera and says that they just spent the last 10 minutes on their knees crying. It does look like some are forcing the emotion too.
> 
> Ok, and so then there were four.
> 
> If you had to guess what is the order you would say they are leaving the island?
> ...



This dude had the exact order a month ago. We should promote him to super duper clairvoyant reality show figurer outer or give him a cookie or something!

----------


## hunter63

> I was on a hunting trip in November. My post was more an example of site improvement, not comparing a 4 day hunt to a 56 day survival trip.


.....Looks down right comfy to me....Nice camp.

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## TXyakr

> This dude had the exact order a month ago. We should promote him to super duper clairvoyant reality show figurer outer or give him a cookie or something!


I'll send you a cookie Robert, it might be just an envelope full of crumbs when it arrives but I have your full name, birth date, height, city and zip code from the Fish/Hunt license photo you posted. It may be enough. I'll do some research online and see if I can find the street name and number as well.

Alan WAS a good choice he whined the least on camera. When he had nothing to record he just did not record anything. What a concept. I overhear my daughter watching that Kardashinan show, If a person wanted to listen to whining they could watch that, LOL. Or that CBS so called Survivor show, OMG just shoot me now.

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## NightSG

> Alan WAS a good choice he whined the least on camera.


If they'd shown his wife before, I'd have bet on him wanting to get home a lot sooner  :Smile:

----------


## WalkingTree

I see that History's site lists the original items from which they had to choose. Was that there before? Makes me wonder if I was just blind. (looks like more than 40 though)
Anyway...so, I ask myself what would I choose, from this list, when limited to 10 and considering myself and other factors. Um...dagnabit, sure are some hard choices (choosing against an item which is good requires deep thought)...

1 - 12×12 ground cloth/tarp
2 - saw (not the bow kind)
3 - multi-seasonal sleeping bag
4 - 2 quart Pot, with lid
5 - disposable lighter
6 - canteen
7 - fishing line and hooks
8 - 5 lbs of dried pulses/legumes/lentils
9 - hunting knife
10 - small shovel

----------


## Sarge47

> I see that History's site lists the original items from which they had to choose. Was that there before? Makes me wonder if I was just blind. (looks like more than 40 though)
> Anyway...so, I ask myself what would I choose, from this list, when limited to 10 and considering myself and other factors. Um...dagnabit, sure are some hard choices (choosing against an item which is good requires deep thought)...
> 
> 1 - 12×12 ground cloth/tarp
> 2 - saw (not the bow kind)
> 3 - multi-seasonal sleeping bag
> 4 - 2 quart Pot, with lid
> 5 - disposable lighter
> 6 - canteen
> ...


My understanding, based on facebook posts from one of the "survivors" who tapped out early was that a disposable lighter was not allowed..... :Detective:

----------


## hunter63

> .................... Or that CBS so called Survivor show, OMG just shoot me now.


What? The Grand-daddy of all Survivor shows?......Which the chicks in bikinis and all......?

I like that show........

----------


## NightSG

> My understanding, based on facebook posts from one of the "survivors" who tapped out early was that a disposable lighter was not allowed.....


That must have changed; I can't imagine actual survivalists not realizing that, while a ferro rod may spark thousands of times, in poor conditions, you may need hundreds of strikes to light anything.  The butane lighter's one handed activation and sustained flame makes it a clear winner in my book.  I keep at least three in different parts of the bug out bag, including tucked inside both the little Stanley pot and the GI mess kit where they're extremely unlikely to be crushed or have the button held down until they're empty.  (One of my assistant scoutmasters smoked, back in the days when that wasn't grounds for lynching on a Scout trip, and would carve a little wedge to go under the button on each lighter specifically to keep them from being drained accidentally.)

That said, I do have a magnesium/ferro block, two waterproof containers of matches, and 2-3 vacuum sealed matchbooks in there as well.  These give me the ability to trade fire as well as providing multiple layers of redundancy for an important task; same as carrying both the Stanley and the mess kit so I have multiple ready-made boiling containers.

Again, IMO, limiting items by count just strikes me as silly; I'd rather see "you can take whatever you can carry through this five mile obstacle course" or something similar that actually addresses realistic decision making criteria.

----------


## hunter63

Repeat after me...."It's  TV show, ...It's a TV show...It's a TV show....."
There ya go...... repeated on the interweb 3 times , become true.....

----------


## WalkingTree

sarge47 - That's strange. This is what I'm looking at:

http://www.history.com/shows/alone/a...ohibited-items





> limiting items by count just strikes me as silly; I'd rather see "you can take whatever you can carry through this five mile obstacle course" or something similar that actually addresses realistic decision making criteria.


When thinking of how I'd design a show, one thing I like is doing it by weight. Either a much longer list to choose from, or a long prohibited list, and the total weight of everything has to be within a certain weight, same for each person. And this keeps a bigger stronger person from being able to have more than someone else because of just letting them take whatever each can carry etc. In reality, what someone can carry obviously applies. But in reality t.v. wherein people are competing, you could go either way...even those odds, or let each one's ability to carry whatever they can carry be part of it.

----------


## TXyakr

There are pros and cons to every method of starting fires and in all types of environments be it on a TV show or in real life when things go bad. A lighter disposable or top of the line has the advantage of being able to start a poor quality tinder bundle because it can hold a flame to a the tinder for longer than a ferrocerium rod even one high in magnesium. Even an excellent fire board and bow drill that makes great embers/coals needs a better tinder bundle than a high powered lighter with a lot of fluid. BUT either of these a Bow Drill or a large Ferro rod will definitely outlast a lighter even the best top of the line one. Open up your lighter and look at how tiny that ferro rod is in that lighter even if you had some replacement rods for it would it last 40 days? One year of fires 300-600 fires? I don't have as much experience lighting primitive fires as I would like, and am very thankful every time I am successful but I consider a great tinder bundle to be the most important item not the actual source of the spark be it lighter, ferro rod or bow, hand or pump drill, technically these are all friction fire methods if you want to be scientific about it. A lighter generates its initial spark by friction, so does the ferro rod. Mitch goes thru this all on a Youtube video he posted, it has more demo and less blah, blah, blah than me.

BTW if I was adding items NOT on the approved list it would be a polyethylene sea kayak and paddle to catch more fish, sea critters and go visit the other men and barter with them. LOL
Some young ladies in bikinis from CBS's "fake" Survival show so dirty old men like Hunter63 would want to watch the show... That would be the ticket...

It is said that John the Baptist wore rough Camel's skin/hair clothing and ate locust in the wilderness. A survival show based on that might be interesting. Or Christ living on locust and little water for 40 days and nights in the Palestine wilderness, or Moses waiting up in Mount Sinai, well not such a good idea there Egyptian army is currently fighting ISIS in the Sinai and losing many men... best move that Challenge to Utah or Arizona...

----------


## WalkingTree

TXyakr -

Leaning more towards the ferro rod set initially, I wondered what kind of set it'd be and how many strikes you get. I ended up considering the wet environment and comparing getting sparks versus having actual flame...that I might use up tons of my spark-quota on one fire...and thinking that if I lasted long enough for my lighter to run out, then I should be far enough along to begin using another method like bow drilling or just being able to maintain fire that I have, rain and wind notwithstanding. If I am not in that kind of shape with fire proficiency while having lasted that long, it might be moot.

I personally like the idea of a zippo with a bottle of fluid and some replacement flints.

And some smokes to break out for those special moments. And a can of coffee. Btw, I consider things like enjoying coffee moments, etc, to have great psychological impact. When things like boredom are mentioned, I think about how you must do more than only the bare survival activities. You need to enjoy yourself. Enjoy the environment, instead of being terrorized by it. I honestly wondered if something like coffee was on their allowed list, and I wanted to find that out specifically. Gee, they had spoon and towel and comb on there.

But then...we can talk a lot about what we'd do, while needing to remember that energy (and hydration) becomes an issue - you need to do so much right in the beginning, and a person gets worn out when some of what you're needing to do is get food and water and may have not gotten that yet. It's a big hump right in the beginning, and if you don't get over that hump well right at the beginning, it almost dictates everything afterwards for a long while. That's why I consider some kind of food rations for the beginning to be important...keeping some energy until I'm established in a basic way. Water would be included in this philosophy of mine, but you need so much of it to be any good and I'm thinking that in at least this show's environment water isn't too difficult.

----------


## TXyakr

Best is a very large Ferro rod high in magnesium in a cold wet environment slowly scrap off bits onto a piece of driest bark you can get like inner wood (clip of Alan getting excited about it Thursday night was funny but outdoorsmen can relate). Then strike sparks onto these scapings with tinder on top, blow get smoke and a flame. It takes a lot of practice in a very wet, humid climate.

There have been many discussions here at WS about coffee substitutes in the wild. Most are not very pleasant but you can adjust to them over time. Also teas of various wild/found herbs or even leaves of various evergreen trees. Best not to over do it or your bowels may get very loose. Just enough to flavor the hot water, don't go crazy or you could dehydrate yourself sitting behind a bush somewhere. I WILL NOT admit to having ever done THAT!

Keep a record of how long a zippo lasts, good luck with that. Fine for weekend car camping folks... best to have a backup and know how to use it if you venture much beyond the safety of your automobile or ATV... extra ferro rods for zippos are tiny easily lost and break if you look at them crosseyed...

BTW perhaps the first Wilderness Survival "Show" was John the Baptist. Thousands of people from many miles around came to see this man dressed in camel skin who ate locust insects he was as Isaiah 40:3 said may thousands of years ago "The voice of one crying in the wilderness" drew a crowd. Father Abraham left the big city of Ur to go into the wilderness and live a simple life many years before that but he did not draw a large crowd so it was not technically a "show". Anyhow John the B has CBS beat by over 2000 years.

----------


## WalkingTree

^ See Castaway with Tom Hanks? That'd be me - dancing and chanting 'round my fire. (Best/funniest moment: "what _is_ that?!")

Well, zippo is what I'd have if having such a thing...would stick to drilling or fire-piston when possible otherwise.

If I can acquire the ingredients, teas would be a regular thing for me. Coffee, just a good morning ritual, or for cold rainy stretches. And...out there, things taste much better. It's about context. I don't find it hard to acquire tastes ("the best spice in the world is hunger"). Living like that, rough coffee is somehow appropriate...is luxurious. Funny though, if they had coffee on their list, I'd demand that it be Columbian, or wouldn't even have it. Would rather hope to find dandelion or chicory.

----------


## Batch

> BUT either of these a Bow Drill or a large Ferro rod will definitely outlast a lighter even the best top of the line one.


 No bow drill set I have ever seen even remotely has a chance of lighting as many fires as a disposable lighter. My preferred set of willow on willow will give you two or three fires per hole in *optimal* conditions. Then the spindle will be through the hearth. Trying for that third coal could end up a waste of time if the spindle goes through the hearth.

You get an average of 3,000 lights from a BIC disposable. Is there a bow drill set that will give you a comparable number of coals?

----------


## Sarge47

> That must have changed; I can't imagine actual survivalists not realizing that, while a ferro rod may spark thousands of times, in poor conditions, you may need hundreds of strikes to light anything.  The butane lighter's one handed activation and sustained flame makes it a clear winner in my book.  I keep at least three in different parts of the bug out bag, including tucked inside both the little Stanley pot and the GI mess kit where they're extremely unlikely to be crushed or have the button held down until they're empty.  (One of my assistant scoutmasters smoked, back in the days when that wasn't grounds for lynching on a Scout trip, and would carve a little wedge to go under the button on each lighter specifically to keep them from being drained accidentally.)
> 
> That said, I do have a magnesium/ferro block, two waterproof containers of matches, and 2-3 vacuum sealed matchbooks in there as well.  These give me the ability to trade fire as well as providing multiple layers of redundancy for an important task; same as carrying both the Stanley and the mess kit so I have multiple ready-made boiling containers.
> 
> Again, IMO, limiting items by count just strikes me as silly; I'd rather see "you can take whatever you can carry through this five mile obstacle course" or something similar that actually addresses realistic decision making criteria.


I stand corrected on the list, I was going by what one of the guys wrote on FB.  I also agree with you on limiting items; I've made no secret about how that's one of my pet peeves!... :W00t:

----------


## TXyakr

> No bow drill set I have ever seen even remotely has a chance of lighting as many fires as a disposable lighter. My preferred set of willow on willow will give you two or three fires per hole in *optimal* conditions. Then the spindle will be through the hearth. Trying for that third coal could end up a waste of time if the spindle goes through the hearth.
> 
> You get an average of 3,000 lights from a BIC disposable. Is there a bow drill set that will give you a comparable number of coals?


I think I had mentioned almost 100 comments back in this thread that Mitch from this "Alone" show had a youtube video demonstrating long term fire starting tools pros and cons. Obviously a intelligent person would need to make new fire boards, spindles and bows assuming they were in a place that had useable and appropriate wood not in the middle of the sahara desert where there might not be fire wood so why bother. OH camel dung, forgot about that use your lighter to start that! LOL I heard a rumor that next "Alone" show will be there, ha ha ha. Watch out for ISIS.




EDIT: I've seen people spend 10-20 "lights" of a Bic lighter to get a fire started because they did not know how to make or use a tinder bundle properly. Also had people step on my Bic lighter while they were borrowing it and crush it, thankful it was not my only starter tool that I knew how to use effectively. And often the gaskets on a zippo will get old especially if it was left in a hot vehicle and then it leaks, no fluid you are left with a tiny ferro rod, tiny little sparks. Good luck with that. It can work but is a PITA and requires a very good tinder bundle.... My point is have options IF you venture more than 20 yards from your vehicle or for sure if you hike several days from it. NOTE: this does not apply to Hunter63 or Kyratshooter, for them just use jumper cables or some wire on the battery of your vehicle you will be fine, ha ha ha

So how many fires CAN an average casual camper start with a brand new BIC, how many people buy a new one for each and every trip? Just in case a flood, wildfire or something strands them?

----------


## Sarge47

I just finished reading the complete list, yeah, I'd take all that stuff, plus some.  No outdoorsman in his right mind goes out into the total wilderness with only a limited amount of stuff and takes video cameras and equipment. For the record, my 1st choice of a fire starter is a long barreled butane charcoal starter.  I use wood for fire-starting as well...as firewood.  I also carry "lifeboat" matches, mag block, and a six inch ferro rod.  Can't be too safe ya know.  The regulation against water filters & purification tablets was a bonehead decision, IMO, as this caused at least one of the group intestinal distress.  I do hope the producers' liability insurance premiums were current.  Alan was my pick to win, however Sam surprised me.  I thought he'd be one of the 1st few out.  I wonder how he felt when he found out he missed it by only one spot away?... :Detective:

----------


## TXyakr

Basically when you limit your items or circumstances (SHTF) limit them for you in real life your time spent on basic tasks increases that is why light weight backpacks and Ultralight or SUL etc. who do long distance at a fast pace look for multipurpose items.

I assume that a show like History Channel's Alone and Discovery Channel's N&A appeal to some of those minimalists, long distance trekkers but make no sense to car campers and ATV campers who spend hours packing/unpacking and loading/unloading many many pounds of gear and most of their "trail" miles are powered by petroleum. Different strokes for different folks. All that matters is that you get out there and be active. The 10 - 20 yards you putter around a campsite at a state park is MUCH MUCH better than the walk from the TV in the living room to your kitchen for more aluminum can beverages and sugary snacks. IMO

----------


## hunter63

> EDIT: .................. NOTE: this does not apply to Hunter63 or Kyratshooter, for them just use jumper cables or some wire on the battery of your vehicle you will be fine, ha ha ha
> 
> So how many fires CAN an average casual camper start with a brand new BIC, how many people buy a new one for each and every trip? Just in case a flood, wildfire or something strands them?


That is mostly correct.....
One thing about being a smoker for a lot of years...just a fact..is a smoker may not get a proper fire going....but will ALWAYS get his smoke lit.

Batteries from your Mini Mag and spring from a ball point pen (stretched out) ...or paper clip....or foil gum wrapper....or road flare....but will get that smoke lit.

Hunter wonders around in the wilderness, cold, wet, hungry.....Rescue guy get there...Hunter says, "Hey Bud, gotta a light?"
SAR guy says "Yes, here ya go....." (lights smoke)...."Hey, you need rescue?......Hunter say, "Naw, I'm good now.....Thanks....Some body moved the truck....."

----------


## TXyakr

It was meant to be a challenge with emergency back up Sarge47 not a vacation trip for fun and relaxation.

http://www.history.com/shows/alone/a...ohibited-items

If I was to take a food item it would be the
 1. 5 lbs of beef jerky (protein)

Not
2. 5 lbs of dried pulses/legumes/lentils mix (starch and carbs)

interesting that one person chose that.

Under Tools I wonder where the line between hunting knife and machete are crossed and might try to get by with a long knife with saw like teeth on back but no saw would be super difficult, also very difficult without an axe. So those are very high on list. Steel shovel slightly higher on wish list than dental floss lol. I have a great Cold steel Soviet Special forces style shovel and some others including a titanium trowel but often don't use them. Rule is if you don't use it on multiple trips don't take it next time, lighten your rucksack, ask any special forces or marine who has done forward missions where speed was critical. They might say "what the heck leave that at home dude."

Obviously camera gear was necessary or concept of "Alone" show would not exist. Several said how much of pain that was and they were trained on how to use it for a week or two prior to being dropped off. All these shows give you full medical shots and evaluations, I was told that very specifically by a TV producer, no reason not to believe it.

----------


## WalkingTree

Hey, didn't I see someone splitting a tree with a machete, or am I remembering that wrong? There is no machete on the list. That and the disposable lighter...making me think history got a little mixed up along the way or changed things.




> A lighter disposable or top of the line has the advantage of being able to start a poor quality tinder bundle because it can hold a flame to a the tinder for longer than a ferrocerium rod even one high in magnesium. Even an excellent fire board and bow drill that makes great embers/coals needs a better tinder bundle than a high powered lighter with a lot of fluid. BUT either of these a Bow Drill or a large Ferro rod will definitely outlast a lighter even the best top of the line one.





> TXyakr - Leaning more towards the ferro rod set initially, I wondered what kind of set it'd be and how many strikes you get. I ended up considering the wet environment and comparing getting sparks versus having actual flame...that I might use up tons of my spark-quota on one fire...and thinking that if I lasted long enough for my lighter to run out, then I should be far enough along to begin using another method like bow drilling or just being able to maintain fire that I have, rain and wind notwithstanding. If I am not in that kind of shape with fire proficiency while having lasted that long, it might be moot. I personally like the idea of a zippo with a bottle of fluid and some replacement flints.





> Well, zippo is what I'd have if having such a thing...would stick to drilling or fire-piston when possible otherwise.






> No bow drill set I have ever seen even remotely has a chance of lighting as many fires as a disposable lighter. My preferred set of willow on willow will give you two or three fires per hole in *optimal* conditions. Then the spindle will be through the hearth. Trying for that third coal could end up a waste of time if the spindle goes through the hearth.
> 
> You get an average of 3,000 lights from a BIC disposable. Is there a bow drill set that will give you a comparable number of coals?


I think that the idea here is not having to go to a store, or making do when one or the other gets broken or lost, etc. How many lights you get from the same drill is not important, but how perpetual that the drill method is. I can't make a bic lighter out in the wild. But I can make a drill. I can't make lighter fluid out in the wild, but I can make a drill. Moreover, if I had a disposable lighter, and a drill was working well, I'd save the lighter for when I really needed it and use the drill for regular purposes.






> If I was to take a food item it would be the
>  1. 5 lbs of beef jerky (protein)
> 
> Not
> 2. 5 lbs of dried pulses/legumes/lentils mix (starch and carbs)


That one had me thinking - I've no experience or knowledge here. Was thinking of the jerky, biltong, and pemmican...but started considering the salt content of all of those coupled with how they are dehydrated themselves already. I imagined them sucking all the water right out of me while believing that I was keeping a calm tummy in the first few days hustling and burning energy to get some things established early.

----------


## NightSG

> Open up your lighter and look at how tiny that ferro rod is in that lighter even if you had some replacement rods for it would it last 40 days? One year of fires 300-600 fires?


When I was a pack a day smoker, it wasn't that unusual for a Bic to last me more than a month.  That's 600 fires.  Even a marginal tinder bundle shouldn't need much more "flame time" than a cigarette unless it's just soaking wet.

----------


## Rick

And that doesn't include the times his boss used it to build a fire under him. Just sayin'.

----------


## NightSG

> The regulation against water filters & purification tablets was a bonehead decision, IMO, as this caused at least one of the group intestinal distress.


I don't think I would have given a large supply, but IMO, 10-20 liters worth of sterilant (iodine, potassium permanganate, chlorine, whatever) among the "freebie" items would probably be a good idea to give them time to settle in, or get reestablished if their fire is swamped out for whatever reason.




> Alan was my pick to win, however Sam surprised me.  I thought he'd be one of the 1st few out.  I wonder how he felt when he found out he missed it by only one spot away?...


Hopefully after the details came out, he realized that Alan was settled in for the long haul and would easily have stayed well past the birth of Sam's son.  Half a million is a lot of money, but the birth of your first child is priceless.

----------


## NightSG

> If I was to take a food item it would be the
>  1. 5 lbs of beef jerky (protein)
> Not
> 2. 5 lbs of dried pulses/legumes/lentils mix (starch and carbs)


Protein is available wherever animals are.  Especially for that region and time of year, I'd go for more carbs. (Didn't see any berries or other sources of fast burn energy.)  Probably the gorp rather than the plain chocolate, since I could pick out the part I needed at the time.




> Under Tools I wonder where the line between hunting knife and machete are crossed and might try to get by with a long knife with saw like teeth on back but no saw would be super difficult, also very difficult without an axe.


Depends on how much they knew about the area beforehand; a machete wouldn't be on my list after looking at it.  Maybe a kukri like Alan's and a saw, though it sure would be nice to have a ~6" knife too.  As much as Cody Lundin does with a Mora, I consider a hatchet a luxury, and the ones lugging full sized felling axes didn't seem to be getting much use out of them that a heavy kukri wouldn't have done pretty well.




> Rule is if you don't use it on multiple trips don't take it next time, lighten your rucksack, ask any special forces or marine who has done forward missions where speed was critical. They might say "what the heck leave that at home dude."


Again, there's a huge difference between light, fast, and mobile, and "go here and make this spot home for as long as you can."  If I'm going to be on the move every day trying to cover ground, a heavy canvas tarp is off the list, as is all other shelter building gear beyond lashings and a light tarp for nightly lean-tos.  Fire building becomes more critical for movement too, since there's no way to just keep banking and reviving one fire.  Water purification changes too; don't want to purify 40lbs of water or catch that much rain then lug it up a mountain, but if you can rig storage in a long term camp, it's sure a nice bit of insurance to have.

----------


## WalkingTree

> Sam surprised me.  I thought he'd be one of the 1st few out.  I wonder how he felt when he found out he missed it by only one spot away?


Really, it should make him feel pretty good. He should claim it as a bragging right. Best consolation that there is for not winning. He was second right behind the winner...a whipperschnapper neck-and-neck with the old man who won. One of the few who didn't really whimp out, but instead was hanging pretty good. That'd make me feel pretty good about myself. Though it's not a win, I'd brag the hay out of that.

----------


## WalkingTree

> If I was to take a food item it would be the
> 5 lbs of beef jerky (protein)
> 
> Not
> 5 lbs of dried pulses/legumes/lentils mix (starch and carbs)





> That one had me thinking - I've no experience or knowledge here. Was thinking of the jerky, biltong, and pemmican...but started considering the salt content of all of those coupled with how they are dehydrated themselves already. I imagined them sucking all the water right out of me while believing that I was keeping a calm tummy in the first few days hustling and burning energy to get some things established early.


Btw, does anyone have any more knowledge or experience here? Is the salt content of the other stuff an issue or not?

Otherwise, while I do like the protein, as nightsg I like the idea of the starches and carbs more considering that I'd only have it for that initial boost when first going out there and trying to get a lot done fast early. But, I'm wondering if the salt content is a real concern in these survival contexts. Anybody know?

----------


## NightSG

> But, I'm wondering if the salt content is a real concern in these survival contexts. Anybody know?


In that context, extra salt isn't needed; these guys weren't sweating off a gallon or two a day the way they would be down here or in a jungle.  Hyponatremia isn't much of a risk when a major chunk of your diet is saltwater fish, mussels, seaweed, etc.  Whether the extra salt in jerky or biltong would actually be a detriment, I don't know for sure, but unless they wolfed down the entire five pounds in one or two sittings, I doubt it.

----------


## Batch

Even if someone had a diet that should be low in salt like Hypertension. The jerky would not cause a problem unless you ate a lot each day. And then your blood pressure is usually only raised about 10 mm of HG with a high sodium diet. The caloric loss should offset that easily. 

The jerky added to a soup type meal of what every you can obtain can be a real game changer. Adding a protein source to a dried grain or a collected plant or starch is definitely a comfort where you might not be able to collect protein.

----------


## Sarge47

> It was meant to be a challenge with emergency back up Sarge47 not a vacation trip for fun and relaxation.
> 
> http://www.history.com/shows/alone/a...ohibited-items


I still think it was a silly premise.  Some challenge.  The producers were really fortunate nobody died or got seriously injured.  I don't care what "waivers" might have been signed, they still could have been sued and lost if there were any fatalities.  I also say that it wasn't survival since to be rescued all's they had to do was make a phone call!  I did learn some things on there...mostly what "not" to do... :Detective:

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## Sarge47

I was wondering as the show progressed why weren't the guys doing more with their shelters like the fella did with the "YURT" shelter?  Sam was in a bad position as he got a lot of wind.  Had he fortified his shelter with branches he might have had a better time of it.  Then the thought hit me, lack of food causes problems, both mental and physical.  Low energy level as well as mental lethargy are common under such circumstances.... :Detective:

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## NightSG

> I also say that it wasn't survival since to be rescued all's they had to do was make a phone call!


I don't think there has ever been any sort of "survival" event or show that didn't include some way to "tap out," and in an endurance challenge like this, the only other way to lose would be to die out there.  That would have made for a lot more episodes, but I don't think the world is quite ready for a real "The Long Walk" (or in this case, Long Sit There) type show just yet.

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## Winter

I quit smoking in Feb 2014 but you'd never find me without a lighter. I'd take a Bic over a ferro rod any day. But, I carry both.

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## WalkingTree

> I was wondering as the show progressed why weren't the guys doing more with their shelters like the fella did with the "YURT" shelter?  Sam was in a bad position as he got a lot of wind.  Had he fortified his shelter with branches he might have had a better time of it.  Then the thought hit me, lack of food causes problems, both mental and physical.  Low energy level as well as mental lethargy are common under such circumstances....


Yes...this is one of the things that I think about with these shows. They don't seem to do or try much. Lots of their difficulties stem from them not actually doing or attempting very much. And then I remember that you can get quite lethargic fast when living the physical lifestyle in the elements that it is and without much water and food. Your very first day trying to procure potable water and/or put together shelter which is even half useful, can wear you out if you don't take in water and food that same day, then after that many people can only get more lazy almost against their will. So if you can't get over that first hump, it can all go down hill from there.

This is one reason why I don't really like things like the 3-3-3 rule, because it doesn't really communicate much and can even be deceptive without deeper understanding than rule-of-thumb clichés. Sure, you can survive 3 weeks without food, 3 days without water...but what that really means is that's the period of time before you probably die, if you don't get rescued or magically have water and food immediately. In other words, after 3 weeks without food or 3 days without water or 3 hours or minutes without shelter (depending), you may still be alive, but you may not be in any shape to even stand up and walk 20 feet or think straight and avoid the death that is coming after that period of time.

I always say that you aren't in trouble when you're thirsty or hungry or loosing body temperature...instead you are in trouble immediately, that very first minute. You better get busy right quick, and avoid reaching any of those states in the first place. Also this is why I say that there is an "initial hump" - assuming situations where you have no food, water, shelter, fire, etc, and little modern tools/equipment/supplies, you really need to achieve quite a bit as early as possible, and this accumulates a lot of physical exertion...without that water and food, you can be spent before doing what you need to do to be able to continue further.

I'm really kind of amazed when these people are able to give commentary on camera as coherently as they do after exerting themselves some and not having much water or food. But then they edit...in some outtakes of a show you can see them struggling and not even able to stand up without losing their balance or almost blacking out. They should show that kind of stuff more often.

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## finallyME

> This dude had the exact order a month ago. We should promote him to super duper clairvoyant reality show figurer outer or give him a cookie or something!



Dang it!  I guess that guy does get the cookie.  Another guy predicted it on post # 115, but the post you refer to is #106, so the clear winner.  :Frown:

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## finallyME

> If I was to take a food item it would be the
>  1. 5 lbs of beef jerky (protein)


I would have chose pemican, like Sam did.  In fact, I would have chosen 5 lbs of tallow if it was a choice.

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## TXyakr

> Hey, didn't I see someone splitting a tree with a machete, or am I remembering that wrong? There is no machete on the list. That and the disposable lighter...making me think history got a little mixed up along the way or changed things.


Yes a machete was not officially on the list only a hunting knife but if you were paying attention Alan had a Kukri blade or small machete, that is why I brought up that question of where the line between a hunting knife and machete were crossed. Part of surviving difficult SHTF situations when on hunting or camping trips is being observant. For North Vancouver Island specifically my choice would be #1 Sharp Axe, #2 Large Knife (not big machete), #3 large Buck saw. I can dig with knife also there are  instructions on how to make a post hole digger on primitiveways and other websites, Also broken bottle found on beach works to dig with, and some fairly hard woods there make a good shovel, many alternatives to shovel I have lived for many months in wilderness without a shovel. Difference between a GI in the fox holes/trenches and Special Forces at a forward location perhaps.

Also for those who actually have extensive experience using fuel lighters, ferro rods and wood friction methods such as bow drill the advantage of lighters are that they can hold a flame to a moist or poor tinder longer but these are more likely to fail, i.e. fuel drains gasket fails, or is crushed or tiny ferro rod is broken or falls out etc. Even if a ferro rod breaks all an experienced person need is about 1 inch perhaps less. If you have a blade, axe, saw or knife and some reasonably good wood you should have infinite source of drills: hand, bow, pump, saw etc. You ABSOLUTELY should go out to your back porch or local park and practice but at the very least watch that youtube video by Mitch I posted. Hundreds of other videos online but all a waste of time if you don't GET OUT THERE AND TRY IT OUT FOR YOURSELF!!!! Get off your comfy chair!!! Put out your cigarettes!

BTW I have seen indigenous people in the Amazon Jungle split fairly large trees with fairly thin "grass" machetes when they did not happen to have their axe with them. But it is NOT the preferred way to do it and generally requires a baton to get it started then baton does most of the splitting not that machete. Also best if the tree is still green. Axe is definitely best. Skill and experience is far more important than a truck load of equipment when you are in a very remote area, but that would require that you leave your keyboard/electronic device.

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## NightSG

> Yes a machete was not officially on the list only a hunting knife but if you were paying attention Alan had a Kukri blade or small machete,


Anybody recognize which one?  Either he's really good at sharpening on random rocks or it held a heck of a good edge the whole time judging by a couple of scenes well into the series where he was using it for delicate tasks.

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## TXyakr

> I would have chose pemican, like Sam did.  In fact, I would have chosen 5 lbs of tallow if it was a choice.


I agree or Biltong or anything with mostly protein and fat not starch and carbohydrates which are easier to find in most wilderness areas in this case Bull Kelp or others in other areas. My concern about fats is that in a humid climate they go rancid very fast, while higher protein can last longer before it goes bad IF you can keep it dry and out of reach of animals. Then you obviously need to ration it on rainy days when not possible or waste of time to forage for food.




> That one had me thinking - I've no experience or knowledge here. Was thinking of the jerky, biltong, and pemmican...but started considering the salt content of all of those coupled with how they are dehydrated themselves already. I imagined them sucking all the water right out of me while believing that I was keeping a calm tummy in the first few days hustling and burning energy to get some things established early.


If you don't have a way to find and purify fresh water in this situation (N-VI) or in most remote areas you will die within 3 hours (daytime desert) or 3 days for sure. So the salt content of your food is not as negative a consideration for someone exerting energy in an outdoor lifestyle as its for someone with high blood pressure working in a white collar climate controlled office. Basically you need more salt living outdoors. If possible should be boiling water as often as possible, drink warm tea or just warm water often, keep a record of it minimum of 1/2 gallon per day drink with every meal or digestion does not work properly. When camping in hottest parts of Texas from July to August I drink up to 2 gallons of water per day, if I see any yellow in urine I drink more even if water is hotter than my body temp. I have been outdoors with white collar office workers (folks who exercise in AC gyms only) and they nearly lost it (vomited/fainted) due to lack of salts in their diet after only about 6 hours of exertion in the outdoors, basically they were not "conditioned" both physically and nutritionally.

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## TXyakr

> I still think it was a silly premise.  Some challenge.  The producers were really fortunate nobody died or got seriously injured.  I don't care what "waivers" might have been signed, they still could have been sued and lost if there were any fatalities.  I also say that it wasn't survival since to be rescued all's they had to do was make a phone call!  I did learn some things on there...mostly what "not" to do...


I am not an expert on it but I have had a long discussion (or listen to lecture on "waivers") with a Lawyer friend on a long road trip to camping location. And I also talked to a TV producer about it. Basically even a very carefully written waiver does not protect the TV network from gross negligence, but the contestant does take on some risk. Most is the risk of transportation getting there like the two helicopters that collided in Argentina killing the French contestants from the "Dropped" show last March if you recall that tragedy. I think 10 people died including celebrities.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lling-ten.html

In the case of this "Alone" show they were only a few hours way from rescue by land or sea, or by air if weather allowed for that. Risk of injury by wildlife was fairly unlikely as long as they did not hang food or eat in their sleep shelters like fools. Alan video recorded himself eating by the water in and an open area, and built a separate kitchen shelter. Experienced people do this in black bear and puma country, also wise in raccoon country. I have had those come up and beg for food. Once gave one garlic, it ran away, lol.

BTW I make sure all the adults READ!!! and sign waivers when they go on day trips or weekend trips with my friends and me. Kids must have their parents or legal guardians sign them. But I understand some of the weakness of these waivers (especially after long "talk" with lawyer 10 hours in car together, not on THAT topic the entire trip!). and that if anyone of us instructors does any thing negligent the waiver is useless in a court of law.

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## TXyakr

> Anybody recognize which one?  Either he's really good at sharpening on random rocks or it held a heck of a good edge the whole time judging by a couple of scenes well into the series where he was using it for delicate tasks.


I could not find the exact blade he used but perhaps he will do a youtube video of items sometime. Key in this marine/saltwater environment is a 1080-1095 high carbon blade with all but bevel coated to protect. Then use any fairly fine grain stone to sharpen daily or even multiple times per day. You do not need to buy some special "Arkansas Stone". Many other stones will work depending on what blade is used for, for example mostly wood/bushcraft best not to get super sharp, leather strop not a good idea. What do you think Crashdrive? Except if you just really need a shave or something like that.

Watch his casting video if you have not already, get an idea of how he knows to use what he finds in the wild and his attitude toward this "challenge" versus a true "survival" situation.




Edit: fairly good Kukri but probably not the one Alan used OKC Kukri Knife under $100 shop around.
https://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blade...i-knife-detail

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## Erratus Animus

Alans blade is the condor kukri. a few of the other forums and tube channels have confirmed that anyway from what I have read.

I believe the beans and legumes were a good choice but since the limit is 5lbs I would have cut back on them and added peanut butter. Calorie dense, name one animal that doesn't like it so it could be bait for traps, if natural peanut butter the oil has other uses as well. That is if they would allow it because the producers would not allow certain things even if on the list. 

I agree that a good 3lbs felling axe or at least a forest ax would top my list followed by a mora styled blade as far as cutting tools. Being in Louisiana I did not always have that view but after getting out of my comfort zone and using an ax I find myself leaving the machete at home much more often and if it were for a longterm trip I will be taking the ax. 

Sam has nothing to be ashamed of and I am happy for him and his new family. I called him the dark horse early on and as spot on with that. Congrats to Alan as well. Looking forward to seeing what changes they make to the show.

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## WalkingTree

It's crazy ridiculous to do so, and it takes forever, but I've even split a foot-diameter tree with some little rocks and sticks. Can't tell you what kind of tree it was, lots of honey locust in that area (Kentucky) but I don't think that's what it was. Scored a line in the cut base with a palm sized sharp rock, and bit by bit hammered in little thin rocks with a branch made into a club. It was a millimeter by millimeter affair, wedging each little bit I got. A tiny crack running the diameter, put some rocks in, and wedge in further. Eventually had a finger sized stick up in it across the diameter, then you know the rest. In this particular case, at some point I heard a crack and yippee it gave several feet on it's own. Don't know if that part is unusual or not.

It might be just a personal idiosyncrasy of mine, but I prefer a tree saw, not the bow kind, over an axe or even a chainsaw. I had my own full time yardscaping business once for 10 years, and I've felled foot-diameter trees with just a saw in not much more time than with a chainsaw. Never had a chainsaw - more weight, mechanical maintenance, cost, fuel...over a little saw with no moving parts. Easy choice for me. I just personally know how to work that thing and get an amount of work done in a short time that seems incredible to people, and not with that much sweat either.

I might be proud to say that I don't think that I even know any white collar people, but I can relate. Never liked the idea of working a job then spending some of that money to pay to work out in a gym on my personal time because I got no physical activity at my job. I've always tried to combine the two - a job which is physical and outdoors to some extent. At my present job the rest are content to sit indoors in the air conditioning while I'm outside doing little things that need to be done even under the summer sun in the afternoon...because I can rarely sit still anyway.

Used to LOVE canoeing down the Illinois river up around Tahlequah here in OK and camp overnight there, did it constantly. Haven't been there in a while  :Frown:  And I'd take twice as long to get down the river than you're supposed to...just not in a hurry, I take it all in and explore. It's a relatively tame river, at least that stretch of it, but that allowed me to meander. That's what I liked...

...Anyway...one time I came across a place where a huge tree had fallen over across from bank to bank, where it was too deep to touch bottom, and close to maybe a dozen canoes were stuck and all mixed up in this thing, all the guys and their gals standing around on the bank wondering what to do. It was like a Chinese puzzle, canoes interlocked with the branches and each other every which way, the strength of the current locking it all into place. Well, I only wanted to help. Didn't think at the time that it was a big deal to do what I did. I beached my canoe, and began freeing the canoes. Barefoot out along the tree to a certain point, figure out how to get one lose with technique when the brute strength that would've been required was 3 times what I had, me having an average to light build. Wade into the current among the branches in just the right way and puzzle a couple more free. Then walk back, go up stream, then swim out and let the current carry me to just the right point, and get another couple free.

At about this time it dawned on me how crazy it must've looked, what I was doing. The folks on the bank really staring. And 2 then a 3rd guys made their way out towards me, very reluctantly. The guys of the crowd were twice my size, and unselfconscious me eventually became aware that maybe I was showing them up. They were trying so hard to get towards me and do their part, now that they could see that No, it's not an impossible situation, but I could tell that they were scared to death. One who was working his butt off trying to free a canoe with his superior strength but couldn't get it to budge, asked me "How are you doing this?!" The best that I could do was give him some fancy jabber about working with the current, figuring out the technique like it was a puzzle, etc.

This one guy was getting a little extra daring, inspired, such that I was starting to feel bad or guilty. While I was in the water dancing with the branches and current myself, I heard a "hey" and saw a head a few feet away just barely keeping it's face over the water rushing over it. I will definitely give it to him - he was calm as all-git-out. He explained to me very calmly and soberly how he could not get out and was a little tangled and couldn't touch bottom and the current was too strong etc...asking me what to do like I was suddenly the guru of the moment. It seems crazy to me now, but at the time I just "knew" what he could do and that it would work. I told him to just take a breath and relax, let go and ball his whole body up, and just let the current take him and suck him under...then after he could tell, while under water, that things were calm and he was clear, to just float and swim to the surface then make his way back to the river bank. Next thing I know he's on the bank a little ways downstream and is just fine, walking back up towards us...

...anywho, this is a case when I figure that all of those folks were the air conditioned gym types play-camping, the types who probably tip their own canoes out of panic, leaning the wrong way, when nothing is even happening.

Spent a winter at another place in the sticks once, and it was up to me to keep up firewood for the iron wood stove (managing wood and using a stove properly is an art all it's own). But they didn't have much to start that winter with, and someone's elderly sister with down's syndrome was visiting for a while, so against all proper stove usage I was told "keep that thing blazing all of the time and keep her warm"...

...being conservation-minded, though I harvested standing dead trees, once I found one already fallen, dead and seasoned but fresh and intact wood otherwise, about 2 1/2 feet in diameter for about a hundred feet of it's height (length) at least. This thing was lying at around 150 feet down a slope, sloping down to the river (mountainous country), at a good 45 degrees and steeper consistently the whole way. No joke. But I couldn't resist. I did of course break out the chainsaw for this one. Fired that sucker up and got to work. Sliced it up into maybe 2 foot long lengths, turning them so they wouldn't roll away or resting them against a sapling. My plan was to use the saplings that covered the slope, and just move careful and one step at a time. I'd roll one uphill, a bit at a time, strategically, using a sapling or big rock (was rocky terrain also) for myself and the log for each step. Heh, this was actually fun for me. And don't laugh. After getting them to the top of the slope, then it was a dirt road which itself had a bit of a downgrade, about a quarter of a mile to the house. Rolled 'em right down in pairs with a guiding stick like herding little sheep. Eventually I had a good collection of them at the woodpile, then broke out the splitter (no darned little rocks and sticks for this one). Lots of splitting, swing after swing, and got a good little mountain of firewood out of it...

...anywho...again, others were content to chill, and think that firewood in a virtual blizzard was impossible (not much snow on the ground during this particular activity, arg!), but I was out there gettin'er done for 'bout 5 months of winter effectively. Sigh. Loved it. Good times.

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## WalkingTree

Correction (my story above):

Somebody told me offline "dude they're gonna be wondering why you couldn't get that one guy out if you were getting the canoes loose..."

Well, it wasn't 'just a few feet away', and he just happened to have gotten himself somewhere where I couldn't do that. Was trying to keep it short and not give a schematic, that post was long enough already.

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## TXyakr

Perhaps you could start another thread on rescuing people from rapids and entrapments.

My friends and I helped one couple out once, collected their stuff (mostly junk not gear) unstuck their partially crushed rented canoe. Then I handed them their PFDs which had floated away and I had to paddle down river to retrieve. They just threw them in the bottom of the canoe. I asked if they were going to put them on. The drunks said no. Whatever! Should have left the canoe stuck there and let them walk several miles back to the rental place to their car and get sober. OMG inebriated people are STUPID!!

But with the canoe out of the rocks the standing waves were better and we were able to surf and have more fun until some more drunken rental canoe folks came and messed it up again. We just paddled on collecting PFDs floating here and there along the way. Best time to paddle these popular places is very early in the morning, on workdays or in the winter, NOT summer weekends.

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## TXyakr

Most importantly about "Alone" what are the rumors about where the next season might be at? A desert or tropical rain forest? Further north?

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## finallyME

> Most importantly about "Alone" what are the rumors about where the next season might be at? A desert or tropical rain forest? Further north?


The rumor right now is that it will be at the same location.  But, that's the RUMOR.  I hope they pick a different location.

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## NightSG

> We just paddled on collecting PFDs floating here and there along the way.


I tried a couple of times to convince some of the "tube the Brazos" places that they'd be a lot more popular and get more of their gear back if they'd put a decent deposit on the PFDs and other equipment.  I know a few times I could have paid the rent with just the stuff that was snagged in the trees near Big Rocks in Glen Rose.

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## Batch

> The rumor right now is that it will be at the same location.  But, that's the RUMOR.  I hope they pick a different location.


I certainly hope they pick a different spot also. I wish they would have a show with a local expert showing what resources were over looked. 

I cringed when ever they showed Alan taking (ripping) fish and crabs out of his gill net.

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## Erratus Animus

The application I was sent and filled out was focused on the boreal forest of North America, however season 2 peeps were already picked.

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