# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Making Stuff >  Rabbit fur ideas

## RandyRhoads

I have all these rabbit hides I tanned last year. Can anyone throw out some ideas of what I could make? My original idea was a jacket or something but I quickly learned rabbit isn't all that strong...


fur.jpg

----------


## kyratshooter

The Native Americans cut them into strips with the fur on, they twisted the strips into furry strands then wove the strands into blankets, capes and bed coverings.  This overcame the strength problem.

Or I suppose you could find a hooker in need of a new coat.

----------


## RandyRhoads

> Or I suppose you could find a hooker in need of a new coat.


Holla.


Sounds like I could make a napkin out of the amount I have. Can you go into more detail please? How big of strips? Twisted as  in the clockwise-counterclockwise cording? Then wove them how? Sounds interesting...

----------


## hunter63

> The Native Americans cut them into strips with the fur on, they twisted the strips into furry strands then wove the strands into blankets, capes and bed coverings.  This overcame the strength problem.
> 
> Or I suppose you could find a hooker in need of a new coat.


LOL on the hooker....but yeah, ya beat me to it.

I have used a few as liners for moc's in the winter, kinda like a sock..... but they really tear easliy.
Found this if your are intrested:
http://www.primitiveways.com/rabbit_skin_blanket.html

----------


## kyratshooter

It was one of those things I read about 50 years ago and happened to recall.  My mind is a storehouse of useless information.  My kids used to tell me I was in danger of having my head explode and my son always claimed I was bald due to not having room for hair and all the crap I knew in the same place.

If I remember correctly these woven cloaks, blankets and capes were pretty much universal among the eastern tribes and also among the Grteat Basin tribes out west.

Anyway someone else has done a nice pictorial on the general principles and it seems you need to do some more hunting!

http://www.primitiveways.com/rabbit_skin_blanket.html

Seems hunter and me posted at the same time!  Anyhow, it was the first popup on google.

Great minds, and all that!

----------


## hunter63

LOL...typing slow today?.....LOL
Need a lot of hides though......
Saw a baby on a papoose board with one of the rabbit fur wraps/balnket....was the cutest little thing....mom said lots of work.
At rendezvous  a while back.

----------


## RandyRhoads

Unfortunately hunting has been somewhat of a problem these days. PG&E bought all the property. Basically my backyard, which is huge and put up signs for trespassing/ dumping. Pretty sure this is just because people would come out the "the country" and dump all there ****, turning it into a nasty dump. I was hunting out there 2 weeks ago and got stopped by a random cop (wtf was he doing out here?) they came out guns drawn made me drop everything and searched me. Had all my licenses Ids and such. Let me off with a warning about trespassing. SO after a lot of calls to PG&E I got told there is no hunting on there property. I basically can't even step off the road leading 30 miles to the nearest town. Straight there and down the dirt road to my house. Such major BS I grew up out here. This is where I learned to hunt. I respect the land and don't litter.  Another case of assholes ruining it for the good guys.  I get torn now when I see people out here shooting/hunting. I can't do it because i've been warned. Sometimes I  get annoyed and want to call the cops on them, but i'm not that A hole.

----------


## hunter63

Welcome to the new world,...... kinda puts a damper of the"gonna go live off the land", don't it?

----------


## RandyRhoads

> Welcome to the new world,...... kinda puts a damper of the"gonna go live off the land", don't it?



Well I never really expected to be able to live off the land anywhere in California, but i'd still like to be able to use it once in a while...lol... 

I've always wanted to do a couple day trip out here, even though it's been my backyard forever. But the risk of getting caught is not worth it. Couldn't even have a fire. Especially since there's no burning out here and i'm on the FD. Probably wouldn't reflect good haha...

----------


## Chris

I have some hides set aside for making my wife a rabbit fur bra to wear to a renfest sometime.

----------


## crashdive123

Pics or it didn't happen. :Innocent:

----------


## RandyRhoads

> Pics or it didn't happen.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

----------


## RandyRhoads

I've been doing this way too long to still have a problem with fleshing them. I can never tell when I have them good or not. I get it all uniform then one area a layer peels off leaving it very thing, but nice. I try to keep scraping and the "lip" between the thin and wider area but it doesn't separate. How do you know when it's properly fleshed? Should veins still be visible?

 I'm working on brain tanning one now. It's all hung up but I don't know whether to start braining or try and keep fleshing with no progress....

rabbit.jpg

----------


## woodsman86

I do not know much about rabbit hides. I would think you could make a hand warmer muff or a hat out of them without to much problem. 

One big company that is hunter friendly is Weyerhaeuser. In Washington, I would be able to hunt on their land year round as long as what I was killing was in season. You couldn't drive past the gate, but walking was allowed even when the gate was close the man gate was always open. During deer season they would open the gates on the weekends and allow you to drive in and hunt. No permit and no fees, just hunting. It is too bad the company that bought all that land won't allow you you to hunt on it. I think that is just someone who doesn't care and it is easier to say no. If you run into a lot of people who have been run off the land, try to raise a little peaceful hell at the next town planning board or something, they had to have bought the land for something. A little pressure from the public and they may change their mind. It is all about public relations.

----------


## Rick

It's probably a liability issue. Their lawyers don't want a civil suit for injuries if someone got hurt. It's not only expensive but bad PR. Ask them if they will let you hunt/trap if you sign a waiver of liability. It could be in their favor if they have ponds or lakes and the banks show evidence of groundhogs. Tell them you'll also pack out any trash you find. If you make it attractive enough for them they just might be willing to do it. Maybe a quid pro quo. You clean up the property in exchange for hunting/trapping rights.

Find out who the manager is over the property and appeal directly to him/her. Send them a cordial letter explaining what you are proposing and why it benefits them (deer over population/over grazing etc.). If all else fails then ask them if the would be willing to open the property X days a month/quarter or some specified time during regular seasons. You might have to share with other hunters under this arrangement but you'll have access.

Make the letter as concise as possible but clearly state your objectives and how it benefits them. You also have to realize that their culture may be one of non-hunting/animal rights and nothing you say will sway them. Good luck.

----------


## LowKey

Rick, I don't know if it's just our state law but any landowner that allows the use of his land for hunting, _without charging an access fee,_ is not legally liable for any accidents that happen on his property. Part of our hunter education here is to try to explain this to large landowners and we were given info for this. 

The same holds true for Pick Your Own places here too and they do charge a 'fee'. All those families that got lost in the corn mazes can't sue. LOL.

----------


## hunter63

Wisconsin has quite a bit of land owned by the paper companies, and is open for outdoor activities as long as you don't have a fire.

There is also quite a bit in state and county forests, that is open.

Another thing to check on is CRP lands a Federal program that "retires land" for a number of years, but opens it up to outdoor activities.
http://www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/webapp?a...copr&topic=crp

Jest is, if people take the money, they have to let you hunt,..... but you have to ask.

These days "Hunting" is basically "Hunting for a place to hunt", I spend a lot more time looking, asking, and checking out places to hunt, than I do hunting.

P.S.
Check out this site as well:
http://www.huntfishcampwisconsin.com/USDirectory.html

----------


## Rick

Being from California I thought he might be bucking up against the animal huggers.

----------


## RandyRhoads

> Rick, I don't know if it's just our state law but any landowner that allows the use of his land for hunting, _without charging an access fee,_ is not legally liable for any accidents that happen on his property. Part of our hunter education here is to try to explain this to large landowners and we were given info for this. 
> 
> The same holds true for Pick Your Own places here too and they do charge a 'fee'. All those families that got lost in the corn mazes can't sue. LOL.


You beat me to it. It actually behooves them to put it in writing. If it's put in writing they are released from liability. If I dont have permission  and get hurt, then I can sue. What a great world.


All i'm trying to hunt is jackrabbit, which is in season all year.

----------


## LowKey

It helps if it's in writing too if a game warden happens to spot you. Especially on some town owned properties.

----------


## crashdive123

This thread made me think of the old joke about a bear and a rabbit.

----------


## Rick

Personally, I'm not fond of rabbit fur. I like the look but as stated they aren't very strong. The other problem is they shed pretty bad. I've gotten hair on the meat before just skinning and it's a pain to get it off.

----------


## RandyRhoads

Never had a problem with that, it normally gets stuck in the fatty tissue which comes off the rabbit.  I love it because it's all year, no limit, plentiful, and there's nothing else really for me to hunt. Fun to hunt and plenty of it to practice brain tanning and making something when I get enough.

----------


## crashdive123

When I read the title of this thread the first thing I thought of was that joke about the bear and the rabbit.

----------


## RandyRhoads

Go on......

----------


## Rick

Oh, man. Don't set him up like that.

----------


## crashdive123

Too easy I tell ya.....

OK - quick and PG version.

A bear is in the woods doing his "business" when along comes a rabbit.

"Excuse me Mr. Rabbit, but I need to know - when you do your "business" do you have a problem with it sticking to your fur"?
"No Mr. Bear.  I do not have a problem with it sticking to my fur".
"Thank you" says the bear as he picks up the rabbit to wipe his butt.

----------


## randyt

LOL that poor rabbit, well at least he didn't get eaten. LOL


I've used rabbit fur for blow gun dart fletching. A small piece is all that's needed, to much and the dart will be too heavy.

----------


## 1stimestar

You could make me a bikini for my next venture into the Fairbanks -40 Polar Bear Club!

----------


## woodsman86

LOL, that's sort of like "Save a tree, wipe your butt with an owl"

----------


## natertot

> LOL, that's sort of like "Save a tree, wipe your butt with an owl"


Or is it "save a tree, eat a beaver"?

----------


## your_comforting_company

Do NOT brain it with fleshing still needing to be done. Personally I prefer wet-scraping over a beam with a towel or something between to reduce damage to the hair side. Seems to get it a lot cleaner with no washboarding like you get with dry-scrape. You should be able to see the indentions where the veins were attached to the skin, but NOT see actual veins. No fat, meat, or veins should be on the hide. If you miss a little, it's not that big of a deal. Just do your best.
Rabbits are thin and delicate hides. Probably more suitable for undergarments than outer layers. I have a friend who promised me some bunny furs, but I have yet to get them. Anything that won't be under tremendous stress should be a suitable use, like gloves or a hat, or even a bag or face warmer. Rabbits are so small, like squirrels, that it takes a lot of them to have enough to actually make anything useful. Half a dozen, I would probably use as a liner for a vest or shoes as H suggests.

----------


## randyt

I would weave up a blanket. Most white trappers would cover it with cloth to control the shedding hair.

I'm looking at my dry scrape hides and don't see any wash boarding. I wonder if wash boarding is a result of technique.

----------


## intothenew

Cuffs, Collars, and Hems.

The only place I have ever tried it was on a field jacket hood, I considered it a failure. The hood was too flimsy to support the flesh and fur for daily routines. It was nice when battened down in a deer stand.

I have since dreamt of adding it to jacket cuffs. I hate to pull them down with velcro, too confining. I hate even more the Northwest winds up a sleeve though.

Sleeve cuffs, jacket collars, or jacket hoods. A mid waist belt along the cinch of a field coat? The bottom hem of a field coat, belted inside so as not to subject it to as much wear. 

Stuff your pants? The hem of your boots.

Stuff your boots? The hem of your pants.


I sure wish you were here next to Martha's Majic Stitch machine, we'd go through those pelts in a heartbeat.

----------


## RandyRhoads

> Do NOT brain it with fleshing still needing to be done. Personally I prefer wet-scraping over a beam with a towel or something between to reduce damage to the hair side. Seems to get it a lot cleaner with no washboarding like you get with dry-scrape. You should be able to see the indentions where the veins were attached to the skin, but NOT see actual veins. No fat, meat, or veins should be on the hide. If you miss a little, it's not that big of a deal. Just do your best.
> Rabbits are thin and delicate hides. Probably more suitable for undergarments than outer layers. I have a friend who promised me some bunny furs, but I have yet to get them. Anything that won't be under tremendous stress should be a suitable use, like gloves or a hat, or even a bag or face warmer. Rabbits are so small, like squirrels, that it takes a lot of them to have enough to actually make anything useful. Half a dozen, I would probably use as a liner for a vest or shoes as H suggests.


This rabbit I put up in the picture is not a jackrabbit like i'm used to. It was a much bigger and thicker farm raised rabbit. I could NOT get the veins or and more flesh off. I even tried slightly cutting in to make an edge to scrap. It would simply not separate. It seemed as if it was a single layer attached to the skin. I've never had a problem like that with jacks.

----------


## your_comforting_company

The head guy over at Chehaw teaches dry-scrape and has been doing it for years and his washboarding really tells on his dry-scrape. It doesn't happen with wet-scrape, but I'm getting off topic.

I would think wild rabbit would be thicker than domesticated, and respetively tougher to scrape. Without actually getting a good look at the layers you are talking about, it's hard to make an assessment. Is there a way to get a close-up pic that shows it better?
When framed and dried, skins get a layer that forms on the outside. I really just consider it a "crust" of sorts. It should seperate from the skin and peel away like onion skin. I wouldn't think you should still be able to see actual veins, so I ask, are you sure they are veins and not just the impression left in the skin? Sometimes blood stains in those little grooves can look like veins are still there. It really sounds like you've got it scraped down good. If you are pretty confident you got it scraped good, then have a go with some brains. Either the crust will allow oil penetration or prevent it and then you'll know. WCS you stop working after the brains go on and have to scrape some more..
Keep us updated!!

----------


## RandyRhoads

It's all done and taking down. Just have to break it today. I dont know how much good that will do .  IT's not as stiff as a board but uh, close. Definitely not like my chemical tan ones. I actually like it if it was to be used as a rug/blanked, it seems tough as hell, not like a jack that would tear easily. The stiffness is hard to describe, cardboard like? It folds with a crease.

I'll go snap a few pictures. While i'm doing that do you mind looking over this tutorial I used and seeing if it's accurate? http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=1757

----------


## crashdive123

RR - you should check out YCC's info on tanning.  Here's a thread that he did http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...mplicated)-way  He also has some great youtube vids.

----------


## RandyRhoads

After looking at it in the morning sun it's a definite no go. I can see a thick clear/transparent layer. Here's a pic. I circled some obviously terrible areas in red. But the area in black were the areas I got to what I felt was a really good and sufficient fleshing, but it still came out stiff like the rest.



suck.jpg

----------


## RandyRhoads

That is an awesome thread! Now I feel even worse though. The layers you separate are only held together by a hydrogen bond! Why can't I get it....  :Frown: 

Well, after reading it I see a major problem with this. The guide I used said wash/soak it after braining, So I guess that didn't help lol....

EDIT: YCC can you look at that picture and comment please? I read more of your post and the "waxing" you decribed seems to be what's going on here. It has a waxy appearance, can stand on its' own. I poked at it with a knife tip and it came off almost exactly like wax.

Do you think I did flesh it , but I just didn't follow the right steps? Looking at your post and the guide I was using ....that guide was crap....Flesh, rinse,brain,rinse,stretch....wtf..

----------


## randyt

A couple thoughts, rabbit fur would probably make a great hong, especially for winter conditions. 

In my limited experience in tanning furs I don't soak the fur in a brain solution. I use a heavy brain paste that I apply to the hide side. Then I fold it hide side in and let it set awhile. then I squeegee the brains out on a beam, all the while I'm "trying" to keep the fur from getting soaked. Squeeze it and start working it soft.

----------


## hunter63

Hummmm I wonder how they can sell domestic tanned rabbit hides at the rendezvous for $2 bucks.......?
Every trader has a basket full of them, and every kid has at least one along with a whistle/flute...

I have done a couple wild ones, but used something else for a solution, not brains, can't remember what it was exectly....all i remember is that it was a LOT of work,...My hat is off to y'all for going thru that.

----------


## RandyRhoads

I have wondered this myself. I can't imagine the chemicals required even costing as little as 2 bucks, not counting the work required. They must buy chemicals in some serious bulk to even break even.

----------


## crashdive123

....or get them from overseas for 50 cents each.

----------


## hunter63

That would be my guess.....

----------


## your_comforting_company

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have read guides that say ...brain, rinse... but that makes absolutely no sense to me. Brains are water soluble oils in protein form. They are not permanently bound to the collagen fibers UNTIL you SMOKE the hide. If you rinse the brains out before you smoke it, you are just undoing all the work you put into it... Even the little guide by Dave Canterberry says rinse the brains out, but I really thing that folks are just worried about the grossness of the brains.
I have many deer hides that have been brained and smoked and still haven't been washed. They do not smell foul AT ALL. Tanning is Home Chemistry at it's finest. Think of it like this: Put baking soda in a cup. Take the baking soda out of the cup. Now pour in vinegar and what happens? nothing... Leave the baking soda in and you get a reaction, but neither the vinegar nor the soda alone do anything. Same principle applies here. If you remove the amino acids before you add the formaldehyde, you accomplish nothing.

Ok.. let me study that picture a little and I'll try to help you troubleshoot it.

----------


## your_comforting_company

Here's what I think happened:
The hide got completely dry in the frame. It needs to be totally dry to scrape in the frame. One more reason I don't like dry scrape is all the framing... You have to take it down and get it moist again, then brain it, reframe it and soften. Did you moisten the hide before putting the brains on?

It looks to me like you did a good job fleshing. I don't see any veins in the close-up with the red and black circles. All I see is the remnant blood-stains in the grooves where veins used-to-be.

Try soaking it in water (you can mix up a little soap in it, if you like, to try to get some of the blood out) until it is nice and limber again. Lay it out until it reaches it's "ideal moisture content" which is somewhere between fluffy-white-soaking-wet, and almost dry-tawny-almost rawhide. It should still feel cool to the back of your hand, but not soaking wet. At this point, brain it. If you get a little brains in the fur, it's no big deal because you can wash it after it's been smoked.
The "crust" that forms is the hides natural defense and is what keeps foreign invaders from entering a body through the skin. Water Keeps this membrane loose and fluid, so if all the water is gone, it turns into a thin wax-like layer. It is very tight-knit and will be very hard to get large brain-bits through it.
I suggest using a thinner brain-mix and applying it more times, as opposed to one application of thick paste. "Brain twice, soften once" is something I've read in a couple books, but with furs it is often done several times.
Picking up from the scraped point..
1 soak the hide in water to rehydrate it
2 dry it back to "ideal moisture content"
3 soak it in brains
4 reframe
5 soften until it's no longer dripping and has soaked up most of the brains
6 Brain it again in the frame, you might have to lay the frame on the ground. Let it soak in.
7 scrape off the crust that forms from excess brains on the flesh side with a semi-sharp tool like my spoon tool.
8 soften in the frame but don't pull your lashing too tight or it will still come out really stiff with no stretch. A little slack in your lines is where the hides get "body" or "bounce".
9 REMEMBER: If you stop softening before the hide has been *worked* *completely dry* (will feel warm to the back of your hand instead of cool) It will still revert to it's rawhide state. All the moisture should be gone at this point!!
10 Now you should be able to take it out of the frame and smoke it.

The extra soaking in brains should help the oils reach the grain layer on the opposite side of the skin (fur side) to give it that extra bounce and softness.
One of the biggest mistakes I used to make was to keep tightening the lashing as long as they kept working loose. My deer hides were still soft, but lacked any stretch. When I got into furs which still have the tough grain layer on, it was much more obvious. The flesh side would be soft to the touch, but the hide was stiff like construction paper and lacked any stretch. Don't overtighten it! Since then, I've switched to hand-softening. I work them over my knee or other "staker" type object, stretching in all directions, and I've had much better results. I'll be working on a bobcat and a beaver in the coming weeks, for the classes I'm doing at the Park in Feb, so I should have some pics that might help.

On another note: For $2 I would buy one of their hides and soak it in water, just to see what happens. My money is on it falling apart. Chemical tans do not make durable hides, nor are they washable. A man whose house I roofed gave me a chem-tan deerhide that is green on the flesh side (wierd!) and the hair is breaking off. It's now a wall hanging at my grandma's because it isn't usable for anything else. Yet I have squirrels, and foxes that have a few years age on them now that are just as limber as if they were fresh, I handle them quite a lot, and none of the hair is missing or falling out. Go figure?!

Anyhow, I hope you have better luck using this method. Keep me posted, I'd really like to see some folks have as much success as I have with braintan. I'll do my best to help you through this. It might take me a day or so to get back in touch.. Dayjob and all, ya know  :Big Grin:

----------


## Wildthang

This thread reminds me of the old joke about the snake and the rabbit :Smile:

----------


## RandyRhoads

Thank you so much for taking the time to go into such detail! I will keep all of this in mind on my next ones, following your amazing guide. I'm done with this one now it's just an ultra soft furred,  hard rawhide mat for my bathroom now. I won't bother getting more brains for it. I only want to tan using the brains supplied by THAT animal, as would be done  by Indians.

----------


## edr730

Yes, YCC I've noticed that hollow deer hair always breaks easily and is no good for the back of a chair or clothing.

----------


## 1stimestar

Some one recently suggested that I need some fur pasties hahahhaa.  Rabbit would be good for that huh?

----------


## crashdive123

Nope.  Not gonna say it.

----------


## randyt

nope me either, I want to say it tho.

----------


## 1stimestar

:walking away, whistling.

----------

