# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Cooking, Food Storage, & Preserving >  Survival and Alcohol

## cacteye

how do you make "wild alcohol"?  :wine:

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## Batch

Almost all fruit has the yeast it needs to ferment. Folks would jack it in the cold. And distillation is about keeping it cool.

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## DSJohnson

There is tons and tons of info "out there" about making whiskey/liquor "at home".  What do you have to make it with?  What fruit or grain or vegetable do you have available to start this process with?

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## hayshaker

it all depends on what type of alchihol you want wine,bourbon.rye,or shine.
some use potatoe skins .corn,rye,wheat.a clear type liquor would be best as it can be used
to disinfect wounds.for a fixitive for herbs and their roots for tictures.or for what ails you.

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## canid

> it all depends on what type of alchihol you want wine,bourbon.rye,or shine.


Regardless of the type or spirits made, it is all the same type-in fact several types -of alcohol. This is ethanol. I say spirits because this is the distinction which actually matters. In distillation under any reasonable parameters the other alcohols are produced in amounts more likely to ruin the taste than to be harmful. they are even less likely to be harmful for disinfectant use (among them are for example isopropanol and it's isomer 1-propanol and all to my knowledge have dehydrative disinfectant properties), but are in any event easy to exclude.

There is absolutely no reason to prefer clear spirits for dark spirits, and that is essentially a function of storage (barrel aging is a finer art that mere storage, but storage is after all the reason the practice began). The important thing here is that the concentration is sufficient, and distillation is how you get it there; the rest is essentially irrelevant.

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## Lamewolf

I don't consider drinking of alcohol a survival need and it can aggravate dehydration.  Take it from someone that has kicked the "habit", you can survive much better without alcohol, tobacco, and other mind altering substances !!!!! :Stuart:

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## canid

Yeah, yeah. People try to tell me coffee isn't a survival essential either. Those people have never met me in the morning. :P

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## madmax

To the OP.  We maaaaay have a little... um... homemade stuff in camp sometimes (and he lies about the proof,  it's much higher).

If I were incline to go homemade it would be wine.

As to the clear vs colored liquor (or beer,wine) affecting you differently,  I firmly believe they are different.

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## hunter63

Look up "Hooch".............

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## wilderness medic

> To the OP.  We maaaaay have a little... um... homemade stuff in camp sometimes (and he lies about the proof,  it's much higher).
> 
> If I were incline to go homemade it would be wine.
> 
> As to the clear vs colored liquor (or beer,wine) affecting you differently,  I firmly believe they are different.


Think he simply meant there is absolutely no difference in the alcohol... Which there isn't. The color comes from the oak barrel. It does pick up different flavors and aromas but the alcohol is still just that. A % of ETHOH. Maybe a little lower from the angels cut after storage but still the same.

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## hayshaker

all i was trying to say is i would never use good sippin liquor for herbal tinctures
why would anyone. that,s what grain alchihol and cheap vodka are for.

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## madmax

Oh I get that.  And it would appear to be an unassailable fact.  But I act different on vodka than I do beer than I do Tequila.

We'll just have to disagree on this.

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## hunter63

Doc says I can have 2 beers a day......shot or wine.....So I said, OK.

I working of October 17, 2019, Number 1 and 2......Don't want to fall behind.....

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## hunter63

BTW, Natural yeast for making wine.

https://winemakermag.com/758-wild-ye...s-fermentation

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## Rick

You guys can have my share. I don't do alcohol. Don't see the need and don't care for the taste. I did when I was younger but I guess I outgrew it.  

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## Lamewolf

> Yeah, yeah. People try to tell me coffee isn't a survival essential either. Those people have never met me in the morning. :P


Oh now, coffee "IS" a requirement for sure !  :angermanagement:

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## wilderness medic

Why would you be concerned with it in survival anyway. Last thing id do is give up precious calories to ferment booze. And I love booze.

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## madmax

Well, yeah.  Getting boozed up hardly helps your survival chance.

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## randyt

no hard spirits for me, my genetics make me go on a war party. Hard to believe, blue eyed, light hair and sunburn easy, in that regard I take after my european roots.

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## cacteye

I know how to make wine in the kitchen. Moonshine isnt much more complicated. I know how to do this in a place where all the ingredients are measured out and ready!
My problem is how to make it in the wild. Yeasts, pectin, PMB(Potassium Meta-bisulfite), Extra sugar, containers, ect. I know that the best aging for wine is char'd french oak. Distilling wine would give me brandy, So assuming I take with me a water distillation unit. I could essentially make some high proof alcohol to disinfect(or to get poop-faced)
The reason I would want alcohol is obvious Disinfection. As far as drinking is concerned. It would help the Mental side(if I recall someone said that survival is 90% mental) Im not an alcoholic by any means. I would consider myself a connoisseur(Fatass....Sorry inside joke)

thanks to hunter63 I know a bit more about wild/feral yeasts except how to collect, grow, isolate...Ect.

the entire reason I brought up wilderness and alcohol was to try and find a way to make alcohol in the wild through means other than spontaneous fermentation.

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## RangerXanatos

Prison wine isn't measured out carefully and is made using rudimentary stock and supplies. I wouldn't see much difference in making alcohol in the wild versus prison. Won't be the highest concentration but you wouldn't get higher without extra apparatuses anyway.

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## cacteye

you know, I never gave much thought to Jailhouse! Your right about it. Ive seen it made with cocktail-fruit and bread! I need to think a bit more on it. Maybe I'll set up some kind of mini-experiment?

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## Rick

I'm not gonna ask how you guys know that. Nope, not gonna do it.

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## edr730

With grapes you can buy any juice at the store and put any yeast in it and it will make good wine. 
The two big secrets are when it quits bubbling just slowly add more sugar and don't screw the lid on tight and cause it to explode. There's a lot more to it , but you can learn that as you drink your first 20 gallons or so. If your winters get down to -20 and you set it outside, you can get it to about 50-60 proof by removing the frozen ice or bring it inside and drain off the colored liquid.

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## Grizz123

> You guys can have my share. I don't do alcohol. Don't see the need and don't care for the taste. I did when I was younger but I guess I outgrew it.


I did too for many years but lately I've been experimenting with some different styles of beer. I spent my youth drinking Budweiser, my goals at the time, was to build up the nerve to talk to women, LOL. 

After not drinking for maybe 15 years, I decided to see what the big deal was with all the micro brews. WOW, some of them are a flavor explosion in my mouth, I loved it! Every couple of weeks I'll go into the local liqueur store to see what new stuff they have and some are fantastic while others are not to my taste. Sometimes the store will mix and match different manufactures into one 6 pack as a sampler 6 pack. My current favorites are IPA's, lots of flavor (hoppy) with hints of herbs and spices. When the weather gets a little warmer I will switch to more of a Belgian style brew. Matching different brews with different foods (as a drink and as a cooking additive) can really enhance a meal, I was surprised when I experienced that for the first time.

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## tjwilhelm

> I don't consider drinking of alcohol a survival need and it can aggravate dehydration.  Take it from someone that has kicked the "habit", you can survive much better without alcohol, tobacco, and other mind altering substances !!!!!


Au contraire, my friend!  As just one example, bottled BEER is the perfect survival-stockpile item!

1) It's the best method for long-term storage of grains;

2) It's a great source of purified, potable water;

3) It's loaded with B-vitamins -- an important input for boosting the immune system and imparting a notable energy boost;

4) Its mild alcohol content is sufficient to take the edge off of stress and anxiety in a true survival situation;

5) Beer can be used to bring people together in friendly camaraderie, building a corps of allies in tough times.

 :Tt2:

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## hayshaker

urrp i,ll drink to that bottled Guinness stout there ya go laddy.

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## wilderness medic

> With grapes you can buy any juice at the store and put any yeast in it and it will make good wine. 
> The two big secrets are when it quits bubbling just slowly add more sugar and don't screw the lid on tight and cause it to explode. There's a lot more to it , but you can learn that as you drink your first 20 gallons or so. If your winters get down to -20 and you set it outside, you can get it to about 50-60 proof by removing the frozen ice or bring it inside and drain off the colored liquid.


Good wine is a matter of opinion. Any old yeast and random grape juice is like wearing a blind fold and throwing random things from your cabinet in a pot, cooking it, and seeing what comes out. Blech!

When yeast is added and it starts bubbling rapidly that is the rapid production of more yeast cells. When it slows, that is when they start converting sugar to ETOH  and CO2. Adding more sugar at that point can confuse it and cause it to stall by restarting the reproduction cycle and creating more cells than the environment can sustain.

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## RangerXanatos

> I'm not gonna ask how you guys know that. Nope, not gonna do it.


I used to read this blog but he's been absent for some years now. Check out his ingredients, method and the alcohol percentage he got. I was impressed but would rather just do without. 

http://www.thesneeze.com/mt-archives/000373.php

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## cacteye

> I'm not gonna ask how you guys know that. Nope, not gonna do it.


NO COMMENT!!!




> With grapes you can buy any juice at the store and put any yeast in it and it will make good wine.
> The two big secrets are when it quits bubbling just slowly add more sugar and don't screw the lid on tight and cause it to explode. There's a lot more to it , but you can learn that as you drink your first 20 gallons or so. If your winters get down to -20 and you set it outside, you can get it to about 50-60 proof by removing the frozen ice or bring it inside and drain off the colored liquid.


My tastes are somewhat subjective. I tried "crappy" cheap wine my whole life then had a bottle of the "good stuff" and it was horrible! So I guess experimentation is called for? as far as raising the proof through freezing. the one that works best with that is sake`

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## kyratshooter

The first thing I notice about this thread is that no one has the ability to separate the survival use of alcohol from the recreational use of alcohol!

Only 200 years ago alcohol was the only disinfectant available to the common people.

It was also the only pain killer.  

In a time when we have access to dozens of over the counter products for minor pain, there was a time when the only thing available to reduce the ache of hard labor on the joints and back was a stiff shot of alcohol.  And 99% of the population engaged in daily hard labor!  They did not have 3 Aleve, buffered aspirin or a half dozen Tylenol to pop at day's end.

The main sedation for amputations and minor surgery was to knock the patient out with alcohol.  

And the only remedy for constant severe or chronic pain was to keep a good buzz going. 

In our time of oxycodone, morphine drips, general anesthesia and all the other help we have available we forget that Alcohol was a necessity even in the household of the most religious T-totalers of the past.

Has anyone ever heard of the Reverend Elijah Craig?  Baptist minister and distiller of premium sprits on the Kentucky Frontier.  

While booze for recreational purposes might not be a necessity for a weekend hike or campout, having some hard spirits around for emergency use is not a bad idea.  Or at lest knowing how to use it for emergencies is not a bad idea.  

If a storm comes through and some one is injured, and you know help is 24 hours away, there is no morphine, valium or other prescription pain meds available, but you do have a quart of vodka on hand, there is not a single reason that the patient should not have a good shot to keep the pain under control until help arrives.

In addition, alcohol is legal.  You can buy it without prescription, it has no expiration date and the dosage is relatively simple. 

You can use it as fuel in your stove too.

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## Rick

> know help is 24 hours away, there is no morphine, valium or other prescription pain meds available,




In this day and age if you don't have a responsible analgesic available for emergencies you should have. If you spend time in the wilderness hiking or backpacking then you should have both a broad spectrum antibiotic and a good pain reliever. Anyone should be able to talk to their doctor, explain the situation and be able to acquire both if you have a decent relationship with your PCP. They are for use until you can get medical help. Augmenting a serious injury with alcohol only makes the situation worse. Not only will first responders have to deal with the injury they will also have to deal with a drunk. Not all drunks are friendly or cooperative. 

I do agree with the assessment that it was a necessity at one time. Both because there were few reliable pain relievers but also because there was not always clean, potable water. Mead, ale and the like was the only drink they could rely on. I think the greatest things mandkind has done to achieve a healthy lifestyle are clean water, proper sewage disposal and modern medicine.

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## hayshaker

well since ya,ll know so much bout making wine i have a small vineyard bout 1/4 acre of winter hardy
wine grapes marquette,frontenac, both red varietys and lecresent a white variety.
just don,t have the time like i used to to properly manage them mabey this year i prune at years end.mabey someone can help make some wine i do have a crusher/destemmer and
various other things.btw you can make up to 200gal leagally for own consuption says
the BATFE per year. most i ever made was about 20 gallons and gave most of that away.
folks like free wine after all the work has been done and if you ever worked a vineyard it,s a lot of work.

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## randyt

> Au contraire, my friend!  As just one example, bottled BEER is the perfect survival-stockpile item!
> 
> 1) It's the best method for long-term storage of grains;
> 
> 2) It's a great source of purified, potable water;
> 
> 3) It's loaded with B-vitamins -- an important input for boosting the immune system and imparting a notable energy boost;
> 
> 4) Its mild alcohol content is sufficient to take the edge off of stress and anxiety in a true survival situation;
> ...


as long as you put it that way, I reckon with the hops it's like drinking a salad LOL.

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## crashdive123

> Au contraire, my friend!  As just one example, bottled BEER is the perfect survival-stockpile item!
> 
> 1) It's the best method for long-term storage of grains;
> 
> 2) It's a great source of purified, potable water;
> 
> 3) It's loaded with B-vitamins -- an important input for boosting the immune system and imparting a notable energy boost;
> 
> 4) Its mild alcohol content is sufficient to take the edge off of stress and anxiety in a true survival situation;
> ...





> as long as you put it that way, I reckon with the hops it's like drinking a salad LOL.


Us finely tuned athletes call it carb loading.   :Whistling:

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## hunter63

Yeah...well.....y'all can go on all ya want.....I just like a little buzz every once in a while...

Just got back from the saloon...had a 21 piece shrimp, off the appetizer menu..... (tempting my gout) and an order of fries.... split with DW...and brought some fries home for Bella.....Took my Cholesterol/High BP meds when I got home.

Add a couple of bottles of "Two Women Beer" from New Glarus Brewing Company...(good stuff)...made a right fine meal.
http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/inde...beer/two-women

Not a wine snob...do like a "Barefoot Monet" every once in a while, (cheap stuff seems to taste better to me)....a Dewar's scotch and water, sometimes...... and maybe a screwdriver to chase the clouds away.

Oh yeah, maybe a Margarita on Friday nite......and maybe a "little one (shot)...or some sippin' whiskey (2 fingers and one cube)

There is no beer in heaven.....

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## madmax

Crash will just knock me out with a billet if I get outa control...not that I do...

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## randyt

My grandpa would take a shot of whisky and honey for a cough

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## cacteye

> well since ya,ll know so much bout making wine i have a small vineyard bout 1/4 acre of winter hardy
> wine grapes marquette,frontenac, both red varietys and lecresent a white variety.
> just don,t have the time like i used to to properly manage them mabey this year i prune at years end.mabey someone can help make some wine i do have a crusher/destemmer and
> various other things.btw you can make up to 200gal leagally for own consuption says
> the BATFE per year. most i ever made was about 20 gallons and gave most of that away.
> folks like free wine after all the work has been done and if you ever worked a vineyard it,s a lot of work.


You sir have a worker right here :-P

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## hayshaker

cacteye thanks  sorry your so far.last year was a terrible yr for grapes but the year before was
was great i guess you just take what the Lord gives you Good or Bad.
i,ll see what this season brings, even though i have a vineyard i favor plum wine oh yeah made
a few gallons a while back .. this year i,ll share the harvest with neighbors again i guess
that way at least they dont go to waste.

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## hunter63

> With grapes you can buy any juice at the store and put any yeast in it and it will make good wine. 
> The two big secrets are when it quits bubbling just slowly add more sugar and don't screw the lid on tight and cause it to explode. There's a lot more to it , but you can learn that as you drink your first 20 gallons or so. If your winters get down to -20 and you set it outside, you can get it to about 50-60 proof by removing the frozen ice or bring it inside and drain off the colored liquid.


Old Polish guy I worked with at the factory.... made plum wine/hooch(?) with the frozen method.....50 gal wood barrel gave up about 9 gal of 'really good stuff".....Mixed 50/50 with Welshes Grape juice wouldn't melt the plastic glasses....

Didn't bring it up because it used a lot of sugar and commercial yeast.

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## edr730

It sounds as if he had some cold temperatures to distill that far with freezing. I wonder how far you could distill it with dry ice? 

Most people seem to like strong semi-sweet wine, so that's why I tend to add sugar as fermentation progresses. I make more wine for others than myself. This "feeding" of the wine will produce as strong an alcohol content as the yeast will tolerate and you can sweeten it to taste at the end.  Only alcohol, sugar or temperature can stop the fermentation. Too much yeast at any time during fermentation is nothing to be concerned about.

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## randyt

just so everyone knows freeze distillation is considered distilling by the ATF.

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## hunter63

:Innocent:  ..........Hey, said I just....ah.... "heard about it?" years ago.......LOL

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## cacteye

Yeah I know hayshaker, It really blows that I cant keep grapes alive here :-\

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