# Prepping / Emergency Preparedness > General Emergency Preparedness >  best survival weapon when shtf ?

## superior

Hello all: I'm new to this forum, and this is a topic that you've probably discussed before. I live 5 miles from the Oregon coast mountain range. If I had to bug out quickly in my pickup and live in the back of it for an extended period of time, along with my survival kit, what weapon would be my best choice if I could only choose only one of the following?: I have a colt light barrel ar-15, a remington 700 bdl in 7mm mag, a savage 116fss stainless .338 mag, an sks paratrooper, a remington 870 shotgun, a remington 870 short barrel smooth bore slug gun with military sights, a scoped ruger 10-22 deluxe sporter, a ruger 10-22T with leupold 3x9, a remington nylon apache77 in 22lr (no scope), and an unscoped remington 241 speedmaster takedown 22lr.
  If I could only take one with, which would you choose?  All replies appreciated. thanks :Embarrassment:

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## Sourdough

The answer is in existing threads.......seek and ye shall find......... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Sourdough

Keep driving through the mountains to the potato compound (SPUD'CITY).

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## crashdive123

Superior - it is going to be a personal preferance.  How long, how much weight (ammunition), on and on and on.  As hope said, we've had a discussion or two on the topic.  Here's one thread (there are others) on the subject.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=4794  In the meantime, how about shootin over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself.

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## superior

OK  will do!

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## Sourdough

If History is and indication, the most important thing will be migrating to employment, and food. Any employment and any food.

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## Sam

> If History is and indication, the most important thing will be migrating to employment, and food. Any employment and any food.


 So you mean the whole 'eating to survive' thing is not a myth? :Wink:  

 Why do people think fleeing to the wild is such a great idea? I understand cities
 better than I do the wilderness. So in a SHTF scenario I don't see going to a place I don't understand the 'workings' of to survive.
-Sam

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## wareagle69

amen to that sam it cracks me up all the people looking to bug out
superior what do you need the weapon for ? hunting or defense
also look up the thread an absolut must read by me it talks about bugging out
crash always the master "how bout shootin over to the intro " ha wish i could reads your posts all day long

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## superior

I envision a police state where a tyrannical government confiscates all we own. My house is ALMOST paid off but if we enter into a depression and I cant make my payment, I may have no other choice. I cant help thinking that I could fare better if I could be self sufficient away from others who are looking to take what I have. In that extreme case, I feel nothing would add security like a good reliable firearm. It could provide food, defense and if it came right down to it, I could use it to take what I need.

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## wareagle69

how many in your group?

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## Sourdough

> I envision a police state where a tyrannical government confiscates all we own. My house is ALMOST paid off but if we enter into a depression and I cant make my payment, I may have no other choice. I cant help thinking that I could fare better if I could be self sufficient away from others who are looking to take what I have. In that extreme case, I feel nothing would add security like a good reliable firearm. It could provide food, defense and if it came right down to it, I could use it to take what I need.



I could not disagree more. Unless you are in a fly'in only location, you would be safer in a small community.

My second point is you don't own anything........You are allowed to be steward of some stuff. But everything you own you take with you when you leave.......and you will leave.

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## AKS

> I envision a police state where a tyrannical government confiscates all we own. My house is ALMOST paid off but if we enter into a depression and I cant make my payment, I may have no other choice. I cant help thinking that I could fare better if I could be self sufficient away from others who are looking to take what I have. In that extreme case, I feel nothing would add security like a good reliable firearm. It could provide food, defense and if it came right down to it, I could use it to take what I need.


So, you want to use your firearm to do the same thing to others that you are worried about the government doing to you? :Confused:   Sounds like you are saying "I don't want people to take my stuff, but I will take theirs if it suits me."   I am wrong right?  You meant to say "I could use it to take the wild game I need."??  I am interested in your point of view on this.

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## tsitenha

Superior, by the way take the .22lr that you are most familiar with and accurate. Also take a few rds...quite a few :Wink:

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## Sourdough

"I could use it to take what I need". Well around here you DON'T need a FIREARM to take what you need. See we help each other. If you need something you borrow it and you "REPLACE" it when you go to town.

However we sometimes have NON-Locals who take stuff. Well we have a lot of hungry bears, and bears got'ta eat somebody, and we don't want the locals to get eaten.
So we just use the city thieves as food for the bears. City folks work good for bait when trapping Martins, Lynx, Coyote, Wolverines. Adds new meaning to, "I could sure use a hand, or a foot". Just food for thought.... :Smile:

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## superior

As a last resort I think one would do what ever it took to make sure their family didnt starve.  I dont approve of the idea and I hope it never comes down to it but I'm sure many will agree. In any case, I have alot of good survival skills and am not unfamiliar with the wilderness. I believe in an urban environment one would be even more vulnerable to hostile activity. If a hostile force (including our own government) occupied our country, a weapon could be used to take more weapons or supplies from the hostile force. One should not automatically assume I would be stealing from other survivors.

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## Sourdough

Superior, what radio station, or what blogs do you read? You are not the only person who Say's this line of thinking, I want to understand it, where you are coming from. What is the buggy'man...? I have a Good Government, It defends my rights, it protects me, I have a system to change that which needs to evolve. I Love America, and just don't see any police state, or tyrannical Government, However I see you do live near California. Move to Alaska and relax. Remember "WE" are the Government......

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## Sourdough

You might find this interesting.......I am 62, and I was talking like you are back in the late 60's early 70's. In-fact I was so sure that the end was not only near, but was HERE that in 1972 I took a Homestead 77 miles from the nearest human, and put all my money into 100 oz. silver bars. I had 2 cases of DuPonts finest, with which to blow bridges. That was 37 years ago. Back then it was the Tri-lateral commission and the same evil world bankers, The John Birch Society. Look life go on....Some day you are going to die. Don't waste the little time you have worrying about stuff, you can not change.

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## crashdive123

NEWS FLASH

It's not your job, it's the employers job.

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## superior

Forcing me to support illegal aliens at gunpoint is just 1 example of the governments failure to protect me. I realize the futility of trying to change things which cannot be and that is precisely why I'm interested in survival. Our most important right as an American is the right to vote but even this right is given freely to these criminals in my state. By the way, I'm of Native American descent and still love my country. In the words of Joseph Stallin" He who votes determines nothing. He who COUNTS the vote determines everything. My dad fought ww2, Korea, and Vietnam and I'm glad he's not around to see what's happening today. When Indians ran this country, there were no taxes, plenty beaver, plenty buffalo, women did almost ALL of the work. Men hunted and fished All of the time. Think we improved upon that system? I think not. It is the duty of the government to protect us against invasion and they clearly are not.

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## Sarge47

1st, tone down the politics; I've just deleted one of your posts for being political.  2nd, your thinking is short-sided & mostly fantasy.  It will probably be people like you that a new society will have to protect themselves from.  3rd, I'm getting together a group of armed guys & we're going to take away your house. :Big Grin:  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## superior

Didnt mean to get so political! My openning question was pretty much about firearms and survival. However, it seems we have no shortage of those who question my motives.
While my reasons are my own, I have no problem sharing them with those who may not see eye to eye with me. The best response I received was 22lr with plenty of ammo. For that advice, I'm greatful. As for the rest, we can agree to disagree. I still found the replies very entertaining and in some ways amusing.  Sincerely,
Superior

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## Sourdough

Superior, You might enjoy the still active thread titled, " Your favorite survival rifle " the subject got well fleshed out on that thread.

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## azurevirus

seriously I have thought about shtf scenarios such as this or close to it..I have no idea what to take..I did sell/ trade today my AR for a cool little tool called a Iver johnson enforcer, a scoped marlin 3030 and some boot..got rid of the most exspensive gun the AR so that leaves me with the above two and a  45 s/a pistol, 9mm rifle, AK47, 12 pump...I rhink a 22LR or 22Magnum would be sweet to own..for the squirrels and rabbits..etc.and honestly I am hard pressed to pick one or even two guns that would be good for all that I may run into..I think if I was heading to the boondocks ..I guess I would take my 45, 9mm rifle and the enforcer  as all would be good for woody areas and stop most anything (big game not included) 45 s/a for 2 legged animals if I had to..9mm for dog sized animals  and the 30 cal for small to med (now again Im talking about woody areas..not feilds or meadows)..but really I think u wouldnt have a prob avoiding ppl if they r not specifically hunting you..and u wouldnt want to down a deer to feed one or two ppl...small animals = small calibers I guess..med sized critters=  more gun...(if your being hunted by other folks..thats a whole diff ball game)..so many variables in a scenario like this..hard to nail down specific weapons to take..but I sure would like a SA-7 survival 22 that fits into its own stock..easy to pack..standard ammo..in a thickly wooded area would cut down on the chances of being heard I would think when u try for the squirrel..anyway..a 22 cal through up to and including a 9mm would take most anything down within a 100 a yrds ..and thats quite a distance in the wooly boonies..for a good clean shot

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## crashdive123

Azurevirus - how about shooting on over to the introduction section when you get a chance and tell us about yourself.  Thanks.

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## SARKY

The best survival weapon when the shtf is that lump of gray matter floating between your ears. Practical, useful, applyable knowledge will allow you to survive anything that is survivable

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## superior

No doubt information is the best resource. While picking chantrell mushrooms here in the Oregon coast range one day, I wandered within 50 yards of a good size black bear. Although I was wearing my Glock23, I still felt way undergunned and hoped like heck he wouldn't notice me. He was drinking from a stream and the noise must have drowned out my sounds. I backed away slowly and avoided confrontation. Back in my truck was a short barreled shotgun stoked with slugs. The skid marks in my shorts were a small price to pay for the lesson I learned that day. A larger heavier weapon is less likely to be with you when you might need it. Now I have my sights set on a Ruger single action in 45colt or 44mag. for short excusions away from the campsite. A hot loaded 45 or a 44mag makes for good blackbear medicine so I'm told. (Better than 40sw anyway)

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## kx250kev

> A hot loaded 45 or a 44mag makes for good blackbear medicine so I'm told. (Better than 40sw anyway)


P.s. My personal gun caliber penetration tests (into three 2x8's with Winchester whitebox FMJ) answered my question which would be the best choice for Bear protection.  My Beretta Px4 Storm .40S&W gets the nod, plus it holds 14-17 rounds.  (Hope I never have to use it.)

Of your choices, I'd vote for the remington 700, and the 10/22

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## Kankujoe

> ...hard to nail down specific weapons to take..but I sure would like a SA-7 survival 22 that fits into its own stock..easy to pack..standard ammo...


At one time I was considering the AR-7 .22lr survival rifle... that is, until I borrowed a friend's... and I read reviews on them... mostly bad...

It is more of a novelty (or last ditch weapon)... not very accurate or reliable and not built very well... most, if not all of my .22 pistols/revolvers are far more accurate and are by far better built. If you want a rifle, get a Ruger 10/22 carbine & put a folding stock on it... you'd have a much better gun that is accurate, reliable and not much larger when folded... better yet... get a Ruger MkII 512 or BuckMark pistol & practice... either can do almost as good as a rifle at hunting or survival distances...

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## Jericho117

Guns spook game away, making it twice as hard to track and hunt down another animal within the vicinity. They also will eventually run out of bullets (and you can't make bullets in the forest with only a handful of tools, and if so-----to time consuming), guns clog up with dirt and grim and make them less effecient (except AK-47's). But I would have to say any 22. would do.........

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## larmus

> The best survival weapon when the shtf is that lump of gray matter floating between your ears. Practical, useful, applyable knowledge will allow you to survive anything that is survivable


+1 there sarky, without knowledge the best and most expensive rifle in the world wont do you any good once you run out of ammo...

to the original question, i would take the rem. 870 express, just take a varity of ammo from bird shot to slug. i would also invest in a good handgun. revolver or semiauto, just what ever works for you... here's a thought buy a taurus .357 in the 7-shot or 8-shot model's, then get a lever action in .357 with the longer barrel 20+ inches. two weapons, one common ammo, .38's for practice and .357's for the hard work. just my .02cents

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## primeelite

I would go with the SKS just because I am used to shooting the 7.62x39 rounds. I think the SKS gives you some firepower and some accuracy. But I think it really depends on what you are trying to do because if you are trying to survive in the wild then you want one gun, if you want survival plus protection then you are looking for another, or if it is a strictly the doomsday scenario where you want protection might want to go with a small barreled shotgun.

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## chiangmaimav

Over here in Thailand an anti-govt.group took over both major airports and the capitol building. Pro and anti-govt. forces were killing each other and there was talk of the very real and ever existing possibility of civil war. civil war. I am a foreigner and presumably a potential target if things went really bad. My point is with all this I was never nearly as worried as you seem to be. Why is the US govt.taking over the country? Whatever that means. This scenario is as likely as the other zombie one but that one is just a fun thing and you are serious. Like other man here says I once thought the end was near. That was during the Cuban Missle Crisis and we are still here. Someday the end will be here. Maybe today or maybe in a thousand years. Either way you will be nearer to your own end if you spend your time worrying about this crap. Just have fun and enjoy life. There are enough problems here every day to deal with without worrying about every possible but extremely unlikely doomsday scenario.

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## chiangmaimav

Yes I know I said civil war twice. It is very early here and I gave up coffee. Plus I am not very bright, even later in the day.

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## azurevirus

mmm..strange.I have read some articles where the SA-7 wasnt very good..jammed etc (as posted above)..but I have also read its a better quality rifle since Henry Arms took it over..from all the info I can get on it thru opinions , it runs from they are not very good to one guy I talked to liked them so much he now owns 3 of them..they are getting pricey ...at least from the gun retailers around here..245.00 throw in some tax ..that is a little extreme for me..I would prob look at other brands because of the cost alone..I see one at walmart here..dont know what brand..but it was a s/a for 104.00 and tax..when I get serious about one I will definately ck it out..if the sa-7 isnt a good rifle thats a shame..I like that floating waterproof stock and that its pack friendly..diff strokes I guess

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## minuteman

Out of the firearms you own, I think I would take the SKS paratrooper model. I used to have one and know what that firearm is capable of.  Like an idiot, I sold the one I had some years back cause I needed the money.  The SKS is an awsome rifle. My second choice would be the ruger 1022 with 1000 rounds of ammo.

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## mcfd45

I have shot the AR 7 and thought it was well put together.  A few things i didn't like which in no way reflect the quality of the gun are this.   The sights are not my style, when the bolt slams back it makes a thunk sound that drives me bonkers.  The gun is still put together nicely but i just like my marlin 60 better.

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## rat31465

The best weapon to have is indeed Knowledge...but my canned response to questions such as these is simply.....The one I have with me.
  Which for me nowadays is my Glock 17 and my LMT M4.  I have several hundred loaded rounds for these firearms and enough components to load several thousand more should the need arise.

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## Sarge47

I own an AR-7 & it's not designed for 'rapid fire', but for trying for a '1 shot, 1 kill" type thing.  In a survival situation you wouldn't want to waste ammo anyway, so 'spray & pray' wouldn't be an option. :Innocent:

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## SARKY

> Out of the firearms you own, I think I would take the SKS paratrooper model. I used to have one and know what that firearm is capable of.  Like an idiot, I sold the one I had some years back cause I needed the money.  The SKS is an awsome rifle. My second choice would be the ruger 1022 with 1000 rounds of ammo.


Was that paratrooper model the one that takes AK 47 magazines? I have one of those, it is actually a chinese arsenal modification.

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## SARKY

You guys and your pistols...(shakes head) How many of you handgun hunt??? How many of you practice shooting with your weak hand??? How many of you can do a one handed magazine change(auto loaders) or a one handed speed load on a revolver??? At least with a rifle, I can reach out and touch something(reliable) from a good ways off. And yes I do that pretty well with my .41 mag revolver as well (both right handed and left handed)

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## Rick

(Waving hand wildly) Me! I do! Me! Me!

I always practice strong and off hand (you never know, right?). Isn't that one handed mag change sort of similar to a one handed mag change on a rifle? Unless it's a combat situation I think that's sort of a mute point. 

You seem to be thinking big game but what will you do with all that meat in a survival situation. I'll concentrate my efforts on any available small mammal (for hunting). There's plenty of fat on raccoons and possums and I don't have to reach out any distance at all. 

The upside of your .41 mag is that squirrel will be dead, cleaned and dressed all in one shot! :clap:

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## rat31465

You guys and your pistols...(shakes head) How many of you handgun hunt???I do!

 How many of you practice shooting with your weak hand??? That would be me!
How many of you can do a one handed magazine change(auto loaders) or a one handed speed load on a revolver??? Yes I practice these things as well.
At least with a rifle, I can reach out and touch something(reliable) from a good ways off. And yes I do that pretty well with my .41 mag revolver as well (both right handed and left handed) Sillhouettes out to 200 yards with a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag....does that count?

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## rat31465

> (Waving hand wildly) Me! I do! Me! Me!
> You seem to be thinking big game but what will you do with all that meat in a survival situation. I'll concentrate my efforts on any available small mammal (for hunting). There's plenty of fat on raccoons and possums and I don't have to reach out any distance at all. 
> 
> The upside of your .41 mag is that squirrel will be dead, cleaned and dressed all in one shot!


I have squirrel hunted with my .44 Mag in the past.  10 grains of Hercules Unique with a .440 dia lead round ball seated to the ogive of the ball and crimped tight.  Accurate enough out to 30 yards or so to thump those little tree rats.

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## Rick

All that referred to a handgun? Well, fancy that. I'll be leaving for a while so I can go google some of those words. And thanks....I think. (Someone PM me if he just called me something bad)

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## rat31465

> All that referred to a handgun? Well, fancy that. I'll be leaving for a while so I can go google some of those words. And thanks....I think. (Someone PM me if he just called me something bad)


Ogive---major diameter of the projectile.
Tree Rat----Squirrels.
What else do you need help with?   :Smile:

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## Rick

My yard needs to be mowed. The garden needs weeding. I have a bench I need to haul off. So, when are you available?

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## rat31465

> My yard needs to be mowed. The garden needs weeding. I have a bench I need to haul off. So, when are you available?


The second Tuesday of the sixth week in July...hows that work for your schedule?

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## Rick

Got it! I hate to wait that long for the yard to be mowed but whatever works!

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## rat31465

Look for then.....I'll be the one driving the tractor with the Brush Hog on back.

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## Rick

I can see I've got some 'splainin' to do to the neighborhood association. 

By the by, all, one of the board members stopped by last night and told me my yard was selected yard of the month for July. Not too shabby considering there are 650 homes here. He made a list of all the edible plants I have in the "flower beds".

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## Schleprok

Superior, if you are that concerned, make a plan to move as far from the urban sprawl as you possibly can. That will reduce your main need to bugout and increase the places you can stash things to keep them from being confiscated. 
Friend of mine has a number of places he has buried (with appropriate precautions) a rifle, ammo, knife, canteen and cup and a few basic items of necessity. Only he knows where they are. All are on property he owns. His will contains directions to each plot for the person that particular weapon has been left to. They can choose to claim it after he is gone. Just something to think about...
But, in direct response to your question. Take the .22
You can carry a lot more ammo. Small game is much more plentiful.

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## Schleprok

Uh Sarky, I do.
Qualified expert with both hands on a military police stress fire range. Never say it was easy and I could do it left handed (weak hand) until you verify there is not a Gunny Sgt standing behind you.

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## swampmouse

You got a truck and wondering which *one*.  How fast can I load them all with ammo and get deep?  Where can I stash some and how many where and how many locations?

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## Rick

I don't know. How fast can you get deep? Oh, look! One guy has a gas can. Awwwww. 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## crashdive123

Get deep?  Yep, happens a lot around here.

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## Rick

(Chuckle) Hip wader deep?

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## Antifeds

The best weapon is .....


Whatever one you have with you at the time.

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## Grant H

I would want an 11" Ka-Bar knife.

When shtf long-term, ammunition becomes less available, and runs out in the end. Knives, however, are good as long as the blade is sharp (it's not hard to sharpen it).

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## Rick

If Grant is getting an 11" K-Bar then I want a 12" Ka-Bar.....Just sayin'.....

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## Lothaen

When SHTF does anyone worry about other people as a potential threat? 

Lets say I have an AR15 with a nice optic and all that wizbang stuff. How much more likely am I to be the victim of a robbery should someone want my really cool gun? I cant stay awake all the time. If I am with a group this becomes less of an issue. 

I have some really cool guns that I would love to fantasize about taking when the SHTF, but in reality I know my little 22 pistol would be the smartest load out. If anything the amount of ammo I could pack with be would buy me enough time to harvest small game while I built up my arsenal of atlatls, bows, pine cone grenades, and vine whips.  :Smash:  

My woods man bag has a pistol in it of some sorts. Typically said 22.

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## endurance

I just don't get the long-term SHTF argument against guns that ignores the fact that you can cache 3k rounds of .22 ammo for a little over $100 and be set for ten years.  Heck spend three times that much and I can assure you that without the modern healthcare system, you won't be around in a world without guns and the ability to use them.

Sure, I want a good knife, a .22 and a .270 or .308, but what's more important for long terms survival is something to break the earth with (be it an entrenching tool or a pick, depending on my need for portability).  Without a cache of seeds, the tools, ability, and skills to grow food, and a few folks you can barter with you'll be dead of scurvy in under a year, no matter how good you are with your knife (or gun).  Man cannot live on meat alone.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

I have chosen .22 too. Plenty of long rifle stashed. I also advocate having a .22 pistol and a .22 rifle. Whatever cal. I would set my self up to have both the pistol and rifle use the same load. Granted the post asks for which ONE? If required it would be the rifle, but BOG is really 2 guns outside of this post.

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## Rick

I can't disagree with you Endurance. Another reason I'm a bug in kind of guy. I have my garden, my seeds, me canning equipment and all my supplies. Bring on the S!

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> I can't disagree with you Endurance. Another reason I'm a bug in kind of guy. I have my garden, my seeds, me canning equipment and all my supplies. Bring on the S!


Yeah! Bug in then I get to keep all of the GUNS I am a bug in kinda guy too!

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## bulrush

I own an AR7 and it jams about 50% of the time with uncoated ammo. It seems there is a piece of metal that catches on the soft uncoated lead a lot. If you get copper coated ammo it works much better. 

If you use older ammo, where the lead has oxidized and become more rough, it seems to jam even more. There was a sight on the internet that showed how to easily fix this jamming problem but I don't know where it is.

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## endurance

Obviously a single gun choice is going to vary by where you are, what game is in the area for food, what game is in the area that's a threat, and what the likelihood of needing to defend one's self against other humans.  I'm a bug in guy with a first year garden in a small town just outside a big city.  I predict big game would be gone in no time, but small game would come back fairly quickly after the pressure on them subsided.  Streams and rivers close to town would be overfished, but the further from town, the better it would be.  If you own a bike, a 60 minute ride will yield you unhunted land and unfished streams.

If I stay home, I don't have to choose one gun.  If I have to bug out or become nomadic, I'm going with my Ruger 10/22 and my Remmington 7400 .270.  Ten round detatchable magazine, semi-automatic, commonly available cartridge, accurate further than I'm capable of shooting, can drop anything in the state I live in at 300 yards, and it's low profile compared to a black military-style gun.  I'd take it over my FN, AR, or BDL for overall versitility, but it's a lousy rabbit and squirrel gun.  The only birds I'd consider worth taking are geese, and they'd be easy enough with the .22 if hunting ethics went out the window.  

Any one gun is going to pale compared to the right combination of two.  Anything more than two would be too difficult to carry (even two certainly has its drawbacks).  I've thought about combination guns, but they're not semi-auto, magazine fed, which makes them dubious choices for self-defense and small game.  If I wasn't worried so much about self-defense, then perhaps a .22/.308 (if it exists, I've only ever owned a .22/20 guage).  I'd certainly want a powerful handgun for animal defense as a backup, but now we're back into two different guns and now three different calibers...

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## Sarge47

> I would want an 11" Ka-Bar knife.
> 
> When shtf long-term, ammunition becomes less available, and runs out in the end. Knives, however, are good as long as the blade is sharp (it's not hard to sharpen it).


Grant, I'm beginning to see why you failed the "Survival Test" on the home page. (also getting an idea of your age.) ANY knife made with the 1040 Carbon steel is "easy" to keep sharp.  Besides, if you know what your doing in the field then you don't need a long blade; 
also Ka-Bar doesn't make a knife with an 11" blade, that's the measurements of the knife from the tip of the blade to the butt.  & BTW, it's 11 7/8":

http://www.tomarskabars.com/USMCKabars.html

 The blade length is 7" and is just as good as any other large bladed knife.  Ontario's RAT 7 is right up there as well.  But in a true survival situation even the small Buck Vanguard works just fine! :Cool2:

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## mcfd45

The benefits of bugging in include:
Shelter already made.
All of my preps
All of my guns
You can scavenge in the abandoned building for stuff. (not from other people)
You don't have to deal with everybody on the road
You know the people around you
Small game is just as plentiful (if not more) than the rural areas

Benefits of bugging out
perhaps you could argue about less interaction with people that may be violent


I don't see the whole bug out idea.  My plan is to sit out whatever we have going for us.  Fishing in the river (100 yards away) and some of my preps until most people move or die off.  I will take from abandoned buildings as needed.  I will not steal from people unless it is absolutely needed.  I think that if I need something that bad then I should have prepared for it.  Perhaps after a few months we would begin to see small tribal style governments popping back up.  Why would I want to be in the woods for this?

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## SARKY

Benefits of bugging out
perhaps you could argue about less interaction with people that may be violent


I don't see the whole bug out idea. My plan is to sit out whatever we have going for us. Fishing in the river (100 yards away) and some of my preps until most people move or die off. I will take from abandoned buildings as needed. I will not steal from people unless it is absolutely needed. I think that if I need something that bad then I should have prepared for it. Perhaps after a few months we would begin to see small tribal style governments popping back up. Why would I want to be in the woods for this?

All of that works great in suburban or rural area, BUT if you live in an urban or inner city area, you are screwed! The vermin will be comming out of the wood work. Most of the police force and fire department personel don't live in the city they work in and some don't even live in the same county. Buggin' in means creating a fortress around your neighborhood. Do you think you can do that? How much acess is there to your block? I would rather bug in......but I have to weigh all the options. If I can't get out before the roads are jammed, buggin' in until things calm down a bit would be my next option.
For a group of people who are supposed to look at all options and come up with solutions, too damm many of you are wearing blinders. Don't you ever play devils advocate??? Or at least "What If"?
How about this.... you are out hunting (during your bug in) and some vagabonds come by and for grins and giggles burn your house to the ground.....What Now????

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## Rick

> All of that works great in suburban or rural area, BUT if you live in an urban or inner city area, you are screwed!


Really? Sort of depends on what part of the urban you live in doesn't it? You know the logistics of getting someone out of a building. Dang tough. Advantage home dweller. Takes 3 to overtake 1. Add more than 1 in the fort and you're increasing the odds that the vagabonds will lose or give up. If you want to steal something you don't want to have to do it while folks are shooting at you. They'll just go to your house and steal it 'cause you bugged out. 

Just to play devil's advocate, what if you decide to bug out and get stuck in a traffic jam and some rowdy's walk down the road taking everything you have? Well, everything except the blinders. They won't want those.

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## crashdive123

> Most of the police force and fire department personel don't live in the city they work in and some don't even live in the same county.


Based on some of your previous posts I know that this is an issue for you.  Keep in mind that while it may be true for your area, it is not true in all locations.  Where I am - since all LEO's drive their police vehicles home at the end of their shift, they must live inside the city/county.  Different rules for different places.

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## Rick

That's very true here as well. I'm in a suburban environment but all the officers around here take their cars home. City, county and state.

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## Ole WV Coot

Where I live, Come & Get Me. I don't think many would travel over 300 or so acres to get behind me. I have a great view and know the area. I also like a 22 for the long haul. I also have a couple that can reach out and touch someone long before they can get close. I don't worry, my closest neighbors are more paranoid than I am and are decent folks. We all grew up living on what we raised. We can handle everything except nuclear or biological war and could live underground. Closest mine has close to a 400 ft shaft and lots of space with a 5' ceiling, but only for a short time.

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## Rick

Coot, if I show up at your house it's because I was lost more than I've ever been lost before and just stumbled upon the place. Be gentle. Point me in the right direction and give me a nice pat on the head. I'll move along real peaceful like.

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## oldsoldier

I agree somewhat to the bug in idea however sometimes you may have no other choice like a nuke attack by terrorists that make the area unsafe of a chem incident I live about 10 miles as the wind blows from a major GE chem plant. So as much as I plan to stay here. I/we may have no choice in the matter.

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## Rick

I think those of us that are bug in folks readily agree there are certainly times that buggin' out is the ONLY option. In your case, US 64, the Ohio River and all the industry in your town all pose potential situations that might require evacuation. Even a chlorine leak and the community swimming pool could force an evacuation.

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## SARKY

Really? Sort of depends on what part of the urban you live in doesn't it? You know the logistics of getting someone out of a building. Dang tough. Advantage home dweller. Takes 3 to overtake 1. Add more than 1 in the fort and you're increasing the odds that the vagabonds will lose or give up. If you want to steal something you don't want to have to do it while folks are shooting at you. They'll just go to your house and steal it 'cause you bugged out.

Just to play devil's advocate, what if you decide to bug out and get stuck in a traffic jam and some rowdy's walk down the road taking everything you have? Well, everything except the blinders. They won't want those.

Rick,
you've been watching too many hollywood movies. We've talked a lot about the type of ammo to use for home defense in order NOT to have over penetration of walls. Well the vermin won't be using that kind of ammo. Go ahead build yourself a section of standard construction wall, (you can even stucco or shingle the outside) then shoot one round of .40SW 165 grain flatnosed fmj at the wall and tell me what it does. I know, ever since the drive by shooting where they tried to take out my neighbor. Went thru the outer wall, penetrated fully an inner wall and entered the third wall. These were all at angles so it's not like it was the shortest distance thru the walls or the material they were made of.
If I bugout i'm not going to sit in traffic and I will be locked and loaded.
__________________

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## mcfd45

I have blinders on.....not really.  I have a bugout plan if needed.  I also have on a heavy coat 6 months out of the year.  I live in freaking michigan.  No way in heck am I gonna bug out without a plan to bug back in.  Not something you have to worry about in CA huh.

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## oly

Im a bug in person unless my house is turned into rubble due to an earthquake, fire, or just plane not accessible.
Now as far as a weapon goes it depends on if my home is still standing and I have access, if so no problem. With access denied then the best weapon is your mind, what materials are available and how can I use them to turn them into a weapon for self defence and/or hunting for food.

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## Rick

Sarky - That was a bit tongue in cheek. Hard for irony to display over the internet. I don't have that kind of worry where I live. My neighbors are all pretty good folks. It would be more of a posse or armed camp around here if something really bad happened. There are places in the city that I'd be a bug out guy no matter what happened. But then, I wouldn't live there to begin with.

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## Ken

"If anything in life is certain, if history has taught us anything ... it's that you can kill anyone."
*-- Michael Corleone*

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## mcfd45

In god we trust, everybody else show your hands.

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## SARKY

Sarky - That was a bit tongue in cheek. Hard for irony to display over the internet. I don't have that kind of worry where I live. My neighbors are all pretty good folks. It would be more of a posse or armed camp around here if something really bad happened. There are places in the city that I'd be a bug out guy no matter what happened. But then, I wouldn't live there to begin with.

Hey, I get that, when I lived in Maine, I knew all my neighbors quite well and if you heard shots fired, it was probably your neighbor target shooting in his backyard. We helped each other dig out in the winter, went fishing and hunting together. But hey, here I am in East Oakland. And even though i know some of my neighbors there are people on my street I don't want knowing that I am prepared for a disaster. The bay area is a trap as there are very few major arties out of the area. That is why my bug out if necessary is all backroads with alternate roads as necessary.

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## Mountain Man

> best survival weapon when shtf ?


Answer: The one you have with you  :Smash:

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## Ken

> best survival weapon when shtf ?


I agree with Crash on the answer: Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## crashdive123

Ahhhhhh.  Home sweet home.

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