# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  Fresh Water - I'm surprised there's no threads on this...

## InfantryAmerican

How are you guys going to find fresh water in a SHTF scenario? I know there's a lot of debate about water filtration and cleaning systems. 


Personally, my solution is this. I have like a whole box of these. Urban, rural, rainwater, mud puddles - whatever. This thing just filters everything out (except chemicals). 

I went on a hike a few weeks ago with a small group I met on facebook, and I saw people using tablets and different systems of purifying water. The tablets took like an hour, and the one dude got diphtheria because his system failed! I mean, some people were carrying pounds of crap on a three day hike just to purify water, and meanwhile I had this little thing. 

Does anybody else have fresh water solutions? I just fell in love with this thing and was wondering what other people thought. I know there's a "life straw" which is basically a way cheaper version, but I like this better.

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## kyratshooter

Your friend is now famous!

He is one of the 4 cases of U.S. diphtheria reported to the CDC in the past 5 years!  

Also one of the few people left that was not vaccinated for the disease in childhood as a requirement for entering public school or as part of the bank of shots given in the military.

We have had many threads on water purification here, and a thorough discussion of the Sawyer filter several times, along with the Lifestraw, the Katadian filters and many chemical treatment systems.

Apparently you did not type in Sawyer filter, Lifestraw or water purification into the search feature.

Here is a link to discussions about or mentioning your chosen brand.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...archid=2156976

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## hunter63

> ..........
> Here is a link to discussions about or mentioning your chosen brand.
> 
> http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...archid=2156976


That link didn't work....
Try this one..several mentions of the Sawyer System.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...archid=2157030

Yeah water has been covered many times....but doesn't hurt to revisit.

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## Wise Old Owl

Huge fan of lightweight sawyer squeeze - takes very little room in a pack

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## InfantryAmerican

Sorry to get everyone angry.

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## crashdive123

I don't think anybody got, or will get angry.

We have, and do discuss water filters quite a bit.

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## hunter63

> Sorry to get everyone angry.


Humm....????
Just trying to be helpful.

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## LowKey

Going on a 3 day hike is a little different from a SHTF scenario. Those little life straws...how many gallons are they good for? 
What else is in the water that those straws aren't filtering out? Various dissolved things and I don't believe they can catch some viruses either.
What happens when all of your filters are gone, the bleach is gone, the potable aqua tabs are gone?

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## hunter63

Boil it.......I'm a filer and boil guy....
But do carry a life straw in my bags.

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## Wise Old Owl

What does it take to be a good damn Geezer Squad member?

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## crashdive123

> What does it take to be a good damn Geezer Squad member?


If you have to ask you just aren't ready yet and fall into the young wiper-snapper category.

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## hunter63

When you make a special trip to Walmart to look for .22's....but look longingly at the Geezer Bench in the front of the store   Hummm....,22's or Take a rest.....
Good first indication.

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## kyratshooter

There is a graph that tracks age and experience in relationship to dumb things you did and got away with, along with a series of questions you have to navigate.  

Things like how old is your oldest scar that was not surgically induced.  Do you own an operating firearm that was manufactured before 1935.  What is the first thing you look for when entering a restaurant. How many heart attacks have you experienced and how many life sustaining meds you are on.

Bonus points are given if you can identify Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan, Col Charles Askins, Skeeter Skelton, and actually read Jeff Cooper's columns and editorials while he was still alive.

One of the primary requirements is that you need to be able to tell someone on the internet they are a dumbA$$ without saying anything that will get YOU banned, and they don't realize it until sometime latter that night after they lay down in bed and think about it for a while!

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## Rick

What was the question?

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## kyratshooter

> Going on a 3 day hike is a little different from a SHTF scenario. Those little life straws...how many gallons are they good for? 
> What else is in the water that those straws aren't filtering out? Various dissolved things and I don't believe they can catch some viruses either.
> What happens when all of your filters are gone, the bleach is gone, the potable aqua tabs are gone?


As for all this stuff, the Lifestraw is good for one year of water for one person, 1,000 liters, and it is good for 99.9999%of the contaminants.  *The life straw was not designed for hikers, it was designed for distribution to refugees in 3rd world countries where SHTF is an everyday experience.*

If I remember correctly the company that makes Lifestraw is a nonprofit organization that only sells the Lifestraw commercially to finance their charity and relief work.  When you buy a straw it pays for two or three more that go to Africa, Asia or South America.  

The Sawyer Mini is good for 100,000 gallons.  It is also good for all the 9s and is one of the systems approved for Special Forces use world wide.

In addition to that there are many ways to filter and chemically treat water for long term conditions such as disaster relief.  I have some big tablets about the size of a hocky puck that were given to me by a FEMA medical response supervisor.  One puck will turn a polluted swimming pool into drinkable water in 24 hours. 

And there is boiling for various lengths of time to insure different levels of purity. 

It's the newbies that get all torn up over water purification methods, because as you go along you learn all the ways water can be filtered, treated and made safe and like looking at your back trail, you just do it without worrying about it. 

For one thing, if you do not have water for several days you are going to die.  If you have to drink raw creek water to stay alive there is the chance that you will get rescued before you crap yourself to death, or think you are going too.  

Having the trots is bad, but dead is bad too.

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## Wise Old Owl

> If you have to ask you just aren't ready yet and fall into the young wiper-snapper category.


Sad but true - what if I have three good ideas?

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## hunter63

Embrace snapper-dum....Geezer-ism get less fun everyday....

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## WalkingTree

> ...and I saw people using...


In addition to the other one, I clicked the link for saw. And I'm still trying to figure out how you treat water with a handsaw.

My strategy is that for a while now I just drink straight from raw sources - creeks, and any old dirty puddle on the ground, etc. Just a little at a time, a little more each time. After a while I become immune to stuff, and now I can quench my thirst right from any sewer.

post edit - well, it seems that saw isn't a link anymore. My joke isn't funny anymore. If it ever was. That's just not fair.

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## natertot

Good info here, and interestingly enough I have been looking at some myself. I have always used boil or tabs in the past, but I keep thinking a small filter couldn't hurt to have in the bag.

The original Lifestraw is one I have been considering. It is good up to 1000 liters/264 gallons and guaranteed for a year after purchase. Locally, they can be had for $20. Life straw also has models that are capable of handling up to 18,000 liters/4,755 gallons for around $100.

Sawyer seems to have a multitude of options compared to lifestraw. They also offer many "inline" filters you can install on your own set ups. It seems like it is a lot cheaper that route if you are going to set up a decent sized camp for a week or more. Get you a bucket, install a fitting, add some hose, install filter, and enjoy water for a while.

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## Mr.Shrooms

I have been reading up on this one up lately. The MSR Gardian is an awsome filter. It treats up to 10,000 liters. It can freeze. Drop 6' onto concrete. Built with military specs in mind. Filters water at 2.5 liters per minute, while cleaning it's filter at the same time. It would take me longer to unpack it than it would to filter my water rations. lt weighs approximately one pound(I think) which is close to the weight of .5l of water. It filters bacteria, viruses, and protozoa. It seams like a very good backpacking filter. I don't have one and I can say it is because it costs $350.00 and something like $150.00 for a replacement filter. But if I save my money one day soon I might be able to afford one of those $20.00 lifestaws.There's a video on youtube of them testing it in Peru, and they are drinking some nasty water. But I don't know how to post links and I'm too lazy to learn, at least for now, sorry. 
If you wanted to set something up at home on some land. People are doing amazing things with mushroom mycelium

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## kyratshooter

I do not know if you understand exactly WHO we can thank for the sudden appearance of all these tiny, inexpensive filters.

It is the kidney dialysis industry!

Dialysis technology has been transferred to the water purification process and due to the research into cheap, disposable filters for removal of impurities from the blood we now have a multitude of options for water purification. 

I am partial to the Sawyer products due to their wide selection of units for all uses at reasonable prices.  I have sent several missionaries into the field with the Sawyer Mini and at least one of them came home and purchased a large family size unit and sent it back to Tanzania for use by his host family.  The bigger units have even better filters than the backpacking models.

It is estimated that 80% of the deaths world wide are due to lack of pure water.  

That sort of means that you never develop an "immunity" to the bad water or that would not be the case.  

What does not kill you does not necessarily make you stronger, its just killing you so slowly you don't notice it.

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## WalkingTree

Oh for pete's sake...

I also subsist completely from eating only dirt.

I'm trying to sell a bridge too...

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## pete lynch

Don't do it for my sake. :Ohmy:

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## Rick

I confess I have not met many soilatarians. That must difficult to get good protein. 

What's the story on the bridge? I tried to buy one once but found out it was A Bridge Too Far so I gave up. By the way, Pete eats that kind of stuff but only moss. (Get it? Pete Moss...Peat Moss? I slay myself)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bridge_Too_Far_(film)

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## pete lynch

> ..... By the way, Pete eats that kind of stuff but only moss. (Get it? Pete Moss...Peat Moss? I slay myself)
> ......


Consider yerself slain. lol
I only eat that stuff _after_ I boil it.

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## oldsoldier

we've got a well and the ability to power it if grid goes down.

Have about 12,000 gallons of available water including pool.

Have several filters from life straws to big berkeys and several in between. Plus a dozen filters for each.

Ability as last resort to boil water.

Each vehicle has a car kit and BOB's each has a couple ways to gather as well as filter water.

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## InfantryAmerican

Like I said, I've looked at all the products and I like the Sawyer filter because it has been made to marketed commercially. Also, as someone else mentioned, it's approved by Special Forces and used by the military.

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## Phaedrus

> It is estimated that 80% of the deaths world wide are due to lack of pure water.  
> 
> That sort of means that you never develop an "immunity" to the bad water or that would not be the case.  
> 
> What does not kill you does not necessarily make you stronger, its just killing you so slowly you don't notice it.


Very true!  To the OP, if you weren't so new here you'd see there have been hundreds of discussions about water.  For our purposes it depends on what you're looking at, wilderness survival for someone that gets lost or injured while in the boonies or some kind of SHTF situation where civilization has gone TU.  The reason bad water kills so many world wide is that there's a lot of grinding poverty- no safe source of water and no medical care. What would be in inconvenience in the West can be fatal in the "3rd world".  So it depends on what you're filtering and what you need to accomplish.  I have a couple of Lifestraws but so far I've not used one.  I also have a bunch of Israeli chlorine dioxide tabs along with some American made stuff.  That will kill the bugs but it won't do anything to take chemicals out of the water (eg gasoline, benzene, lead and other toxic metals, etc).  Realistically no portable filter that I know of can deal with all of those things.  In the woods if I'm in a bad situation I'll boil if I can or use a filter or disinfectant tablet.  Worst case I'll just drink the water since most waterborne illnesses can be treated while death by dehydration cannot.

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## kyratshooter

I did lose one friend to Amoebic Dysentery, but that was from drinking untreated water in one of those "have too" situations.

Even then it took 15 years for the bug to kill him.

It was not from a wilderness source anywhere in North America.

I have always suspected that the raw water in the urban or industrial areas was more dangerous than anything you will find in less developed areas of North America.

My son harvests water from a spring, has had it tested, and it is as pure as anything on earth while 25 miles away drinking from a stream would be certain illness with the possibility of brain damage from industrial wastes.

But the thing that really gets to me is the insistence of us "outdoor types" to demand a water purifier or filter that provides better water than what comes out of our taps at home!  I get a water quality report from my provider twice a year and it is not guaranteeing me %99.99999% purity, but it is still inside the normal and required health standards.

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## crashdive123

True, but if I have the choice of two filters on a shelf where one is much more efficient than the other I'm picking that one.  I figure I'm worth it.

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## InfantryAmerican

> True, but if I have the choice of two filters on a shelf where one is much more efficient than the other I'm picking that one.  I figure I'm worth it.


Basically my thinking here.

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## WalkingTree

I'm not strongly for the prepper craze such that I believe that zombies will overrun us if we have an apocalypse and I need to design a survival bunker with that specifically in mind...yet, I'm for self-sufficiency and defensibility, and I'll nonetheless have too much fun if I were to win some big lottery. Already have my designs and blueprints in my head. But, no, I'm not telling anybody anything. One dilemma though...I'd at least want some short-wave radio capability on site, but can't someone zero in on you if you broadcast too much?

Don't know about lately, but I remember long ago with my water bill from my city I got a flyer which showed how they had won first place nationwide a few times on quality and even taste tests. Makes me think about this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNGWn-aWn5g

Afterthought - the link has some vulgarity. hope that's ok (??)

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## natertot

> But the thing that really gets to me is the insistence of us "outdoor types" to demand a water purifier or filter that provides better water than what comes out of our taps at home!  I get a water quality report from my provider twice a year and it is not guaranteeing me %99.99999% purity, but it is still inside the normal and required health standards.


Unless you live in Flint, MI!

In all seriousness, I would only use a filter for camping since I do find myself deep into the woods at times. I have only lost water to my house a few times, the longest was a day and a half. Went to the store and got a five gallon drum and the next day we were okay. Growing up in Iowa, we had a massive flood back in 1993 that put us on "boil alert" for nearly a month. Showers, toilets, and laundry was okay. Dishes, cooking and drinking was another story. It was summer time, so I went to mee-maw's house and we spent all day boiling water and filling up 3 gallon buckets with the water so the whole family wouldn't have to deal with it in the evening after work. Quite a chore for an 8 year old!

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## WalkingTree

When recently we had a big tornado a couple miles from me and lost water for a while, it rained heavily for a couple days. I went outside and put some buckets and tubs under the roofs in certain places to get water for flushing my toilet. Others were too lazy to do it, and had stinky toilets for a while. Der.

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## Rick

> I'd at least want some short-wave radio capability on site, but can't someone zero in on you if you broadcast too much?




Don't broadcast if that's a concern. You can use it to monitor happenings, in many cases, globally depending on your setup.

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## satokarski

> What does it take to be a good damn Geezer Squad member?


I figure there are 3 levels.   Whipper-snapper,  O.F.I.T. and Geezer.  OFIT is "Old Fart In Training ". 

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

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## hunter63

> I figure there are 3 levels.   Whipper-snapper,  O.F.I.T. and Geezer.  OFIT is "Old Fart In Training ". 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.....

The is an intro section to say hello at:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions

Am Yeah, we have some F.A.R.T.s around as well.....

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## finallyME

> What does it take to be a good damn Geezer Squad member?


You have to have socks older than me!

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## finallyME

Hey, have you guys seen this cool new product that you can use to purify water?  It can save your life.

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## crashdive123

Nice review.

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## Pennsylvania Mike

Thanks for the nice review on the Sawyer water filter, I purchased my first Sawyer water Filter on 1/25/11 to use at the campground on a daily bases connected to the campground water supply, the filter was .02 micron Purifier and it worked great.   One work of advice on all the water filters, when you are done with them , back flush with the syringe supplied and a solution of water and plain Clorox as per the instruction on the Sawyer nomenclature, if you don't it may produce a real bad tasting water the next time is used, I know.   By the way Sawyer just came out with new bags that are a lot better than the ones that came with your filter, I guess too many complaints.   One thing that I added to my filtering system in the field is a Platypus carbon filter if I suspect the water may have chemical contaminants such as pesticides or other chemicals, specially found in farm area streams.   I now carry a filter just like the one you have as an emergency, all I do are short hikes anymore and I usually carry enough water with me, but you never know when you may need it.

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## finallyME

> Nice review.


Yeah... I actually posted that review here in 2012.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...sawyer+squeeze

I was kinda going off the OP that no threads mention it or talk about water purification.  :Smile:

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## Ralph Rotten

When I camp in AZ I only treat the water if it is standing.  So long as the water is flowing, even subterranean flow thru the sand process, I drink it untreated.  After 4 years in Mexico, rabies, parasites, overseas innoculations, military innoculations, gamaglobulin, and Montezuma's revenge, I fear no American bugs.  

But you have to keep in mind that AZ is still a wilderness state, and I am generally drinking from mountain springs where the water was delivered as rain that filled up the rocky water shelves.  No farming runoff, this is water that goes from God to the Earth to me.  We have one spot we camp where the water literally springs out of the side of an embankment...it don't get any fresher than that.

Sux to live in one of the highly urbanized states.  Sure is nice being able to find remote camp sites almost everywhere you look.

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## Rick

Uh huh. You bet. From God to you. 

This is a picture of an underwater cave. That cloudy stuff? Bacteria. Just because it is flowing or comes out of the ground is no assurance that it is pure no matter where you are. 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## finallyME

When I drink from mountain springs, I don't filter.  Best tasting water I ever had.  But down stream, I filter.  Sure, there is probably an almost 0 chance of getting crypto, but why play the chance game?  Crypto won't kill you, but you will wish it did!

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## Mazer

" Lifestraw is good for one year of water for one person, 1,000 liters, and it is good for 99.9999%of the contaminants. " This is NOT correct. It filters out viruses, bacteria and protozoas. It will not filter out ANY contaminants

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## WalkingTree

Hope nobody has posted about this already and I just missed it.




Doesn't filter though. They claim they're coming up with a filter feature. But looks to be good anyway - if the air you're in isn't filthy, I can't imagine you're getting much of anything bad.

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## finallyME

> Hope nobody has posted about this already and I just missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't filter though. They claim they're coming up with a filter feature. But looks to be good anyway - if the air you're in isn't filthy, I can't imagine you're getting much of anything bad.


It doesn't need to filter.  It just needs humid air.  It won't really work out here in the Rockies.  Air is too dry.  It probably works great in Houston, you need gills to live there.

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## hunter63

You can say that again...Rocky Mountain air really, really dry....
You take a canteen and your sidearm to the latrine...or when ever you leave camp.

Open up a dead elk and in 2 minutes every freaking bug, fly, bee, hornet.....will be on the moist guts.
Bears take a while longer.......

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## 1stimestar

> But you have to keep in mind that AZ is still a wilderness state, and I am generally drinking from mountain springs where the water was delivered as rain that filled up the rocky water shelves.  No farming runoff, this is water that goes from God to the Earth to me.  We have one spot we camp where the water literally springs out of the side of an embankment...it don't get any fresher than that.
> 
> Sux to live in one of the highly urbanized states.  Sure is nice being able to find remote camp sites almost everywhere you look.


Alaska, least urbanized state by far.  We have beaver though.  I filter my water.  Don't want to be out in the wilderness with Giardia!

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## ande

I usually just boil my water, but I'm trying something different on my next hiking trip (Appalachian Trail!).

I've got the sawyer mini, sawyer squeeze, and aquamira drops on the way in the mail - planning on using the mini on the go, the squeeze as a gravity system when I'm stopped, and the drops as backup. Those plus my rollable water reservoir should weigh under a pound. And of course, I can still boil the water if I need to.

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## Lamewolf

> Huge fan of lightweight sawyer squeeze - takes very little room in a pack


Me too, just save enough filtered water to back flush it with when needed - never back flush with tainted water.  I also keep some paper coffee filters in my pack to pre-filter the sediment out and other larger debris before using the Sawyer.

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## kyratshooter

> I usually just boil my water, but I'm trying something different on my next hiking trip (Appalachian Trail!).
> 
> I've got the sawyer mini, sawyer squeeze, and aquamira drops on the way in the mail - planning on using the mini on the go, the squeeze as a gravity system when I'm stopped, and the drops as backup. Those plus my rollable water reservoir should weigh under a pound. And of course, I can still boil the water if I need to.


Cut it down to one system for use on the AT.  You will wind up abandoning every nonessential item anyway.  You could start a good hiking store with the equipment that litters the shelters and trail for the first three days.

Water is a problem on the AT.  Does not seem like it should be but it is.  There are several "dry camp" shelters on the route and it is possible to hike for a full day without seeing water available.  All of it must be treated since the AT is never far from industrial and residential reality.  

You are going to need more than you can boil.   Plan on at least 3 liters and closer to 4 liters daily.  No back packer carries a pot that big or enough fuel.  Open fires are frowned on.  The southern stretch from GA to PA is hot and extremely humid, you will sweat gallons daily and need instant replacement. 

You will learn to fill your bottles at every chance as if you were in the desert.   The largest part of my AT load was water.

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## ande

Thanks for the advice, kyrat. I'll certainly review my water plan.  :Smile:

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## Mazer

Boiling water which has run off from Agricultural fields or Industrial run off will make you one sick puppy. Boiling will do nothing to dispel chemicals, especially industrial strength chemicals. Fact is we live in a chemical soup. One must do everything one can in order to safeguard contamination. Learning what is upstream is the most important information you might have. While one must do the best they can, charcoal filtering and ceramic filtering then boiling may be all you can do. In this day and age it is probably going to be harder and harder to find a truly pure water source, especially with all the fracking going on.

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## WalkingTree

Heck I'm hearing that even water deep down is getting bad in places.

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## Mazer

Its true, bad water...everywhere. It is a travesty that our government allows so much polluting of something there is a finite resource of and is absolute in terms of life

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## kyratshooter

You young guys don't know what pollution is! 

There was a time that Lake Erie was considered a dead zone and rivers would catch fire and burn on a regular basis.

I remember one fish kill that took out everything on the Mississippi River from Memphis to the Gulf of Mexico.  No kidding, every living thing in the Mississippi River died right down to crawdads in the bayous of Louisiana.

Heavy metals and pesticides are controlled now to almost ridiculous levels.  West Nile, Malaria and the present Zika Virus could be controlled completely if they would allow a couple of years application of DDT, but that is not going to happen. Save the eagles, sacrifice the people.  

The pollution we see most today is from agricultural run off and you get to trade good food at a reasonable price for cow $h!% and a bit of left over fertilizer in the water.   It is the trade off we get for feeding our population.  

Yes, there was a time when people drank from every river and stream, but they died in droves from cholera, typhoid, diphtheria and a host of diseases they did not know were water borne.  

They were also living a preindustrial existence we would today describe as abject poverty, half the children died before the end of their first year and life expectancy was 35.  Many of those deaths were due to the water in the family well.

Things are much better now, not worse. 

Do as has been recommended for the past 100 years, treat your water.  It is not a new concept.  Boil it, filter it, treat it chemically.

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## WalkingTree

Shoot, kyratshooter is right.

And hey



> You young guys don't know what pollution is!


Young guy? Why, thank you. Thank you very much.

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## Rick

Honestly, that hasn't been all that long ago. My dad contracted malaria as a kid in Illinois! We've come a long way from open garbage yard burning to clay based and closely monitored landfills to protect both surface and subsurface water. You can even check your DNR website for the waterways in your state in which the fish are safe to eat. We know that because the fat levels are monitored for heavy metals. The water is cleaner today than in was in the 60's.

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## dyl150

if you dont have a fancy water filter you can always use charcoal rocks dirt and grass

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## crashdive123

Plenty of info on it.  Surprised you didn't look.

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## creeon

I haven't even noticed how I spent 20 mins reading about filters and getting fresh water. Wow, thanks for this thread, I've learned a lot of new information.

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## Rick

Unless they moved New York to the Ukraine you may have made a mistake on where you're from.

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## crashdive123

Yeah..........his Ukrainian brother (not the OP) said that they had to go.

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## Aklogcabin

I have used the MSR, for 4-5 years now . The one for 350 bucks. Havent had to carry water since. Go to pond or creek n fill up 2 old 5 gallon jugs . Use the MSR to pump through filter into clean jugs. With the little spigots. Would highly recommend this product.

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## Drake12321

The MSR Gardian is an awsome filter. I fully support.

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