# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > General Homesteading >  any lonely place on the earth?

## DDD

is there any place on earth that you can go to live without anyone knows that you are there and you can be 100% seperated from society?
I want to do like the man in The Beach that goes to live in a unknown island and live from fishing (can be also catching wild animals) and growing vagatebels.

sorry my bad english I am from Denmark..

anyway.. where on the map is there no one that lives?
its okay if there is living other people like me that dont want to pay houserent and taxes, but just live in the wild.

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## BENESSE

We have an expert on those matters and he will be along shortly.
Watch for _Kyratshooter_...he'll point you in the right direction. _Sarge_ won't be far behind with his advice.

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## hunter63

> is there any place on earth that you can go to live without anyone knows that you are there and you can be 100% seperated from society?
> I want to do like the man in The Beach that goes to live in a unknown island and live from fishing (can be also catching wild animals) and growing vagatebels.
> 
> sorry my bad english I am from Denmark..
> 
> anyway.. where on the map is there no one that lives?
> its okay if there is living other people like me that dont want to pay houserent and taxes, but just live in the wild.


I always thought that Siberia, has possibilities......Lots of open land, kinda like the Old western frontier 250 years ago in the US.......might be kinda cold?

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## crashdive123

You don't want to pay rent or taxes?  Heck....about 47% of the people in the United States fit that description. :Whistling:

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## Wildthang

Mongolia may be a good place to start looking, or maybe northern Russia!

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## Sarge47

Ain't no such animal!...... :Wacko:   Yoiu claim you want to stay away from everybody, yet here you are talking to us...isn't that some sort of a contradiction?.... :Mellow:

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## hunter63

> You don't want to pay rent or taxes?  Heck....about 47% of the people in the United States fit that description.


Yeah, and we really don't need any more here...Siberia is where you want to go......

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## welderguy

> is there any place on earth that you can go to live without anyone knows that you are there and you can be 100% seperated from society?
> I want to do like the man in The Beach that goes to live in a unknown island and live from fishing (can be also catching wild animals) and growing vagatebels.
> 
> sorry my bad english I am from Denmark..
> 
> anyway.. where on the map is there no one that lives?
> its okay if there is living other people like me that dont want to pay houserent and taxes, but just live in the wild.


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## welderguy

Sorry but it had to be said!!!!

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## nell67

> is there any place on earth that you can go to live without anyone knows that you are there and you can be 100% seperated from society?
> I want to do like the man in The Beach that goes to live in a unknown island and live from fishing (can be also catching wild animals) and growing vagatebels.
> 
> sorry my bad english I am from Denmark..
> 
> anyway.. where on the map is there no one that lives?
> its okay if there is living other people like me that dont want to pay houserent and taxes, but just live in the wild.


 DUde,you have the same map we do,good luck with that,also,have you EVER killed a wild animal>>> or a fish,where do you plan on obtaining your VAGATEBL seeds,do you know how to store meat and vagatebels to last you any length of time,or are you gonna waste the meat of the wild game you kill other than a days worth of eating???TV is fantasy land dude,and it sounds like that is where you need to be.....

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## Rick

There's really only one place I know of. You might start with this. 

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## BornthatWay

You have gotten the best of the answers already so I will just say Good Luck With That!!!!

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## kyratshooter

> We have an expert on those matters and he will be along shortly.
> Watch for _Kyratshooter_...he'll point you in the right direction. _Sarge_ won't be far behind with his advice.


Due to receint accusations that I am being rude to foolish neewbs from around the world I will defer all answers to my well trained and highly skilled staff, who seem to be doing a fantastic job.

Fact is that I do know such a place and I am keeping said location to myself just because I am a really mean person. 

BTW Peter and Wendy say Hello!  They are off looking for their shadows at the moment.

Good luck with that!

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## hunter63

Aye, aye Caption......

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## welderguy

> Due to receint accusations that I am being rude to foolish neewbs from around the world I will defer all answers to my well trained and highly skilled staff, who seem to be doing a fantastic job.
> 
> Fact is that I do know such a place and I am keeping said location to myself just because I am a really mean person. 
> 
> BTW Peter and Wendy say Hello!  They are off looking for their shadows at the moment.
> 
> Good luck with that!


Oh come now only an Intellectual snob would call you Rude, how dare they!!!!! Hows hook doing these days. he ever get his watch back.

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## BENESSE

> Due to receint accusations that I am being rude to foolish neewbs from around the world I will defer all answers to my well trained and highly skilled staff, who seem to be doing a fantastic job.


Oh, c'mon! You can't possibly give a rat's @ss about that. 
Why deprive newbies and seasoned members alike of your valuable advice unique only to your way of putting $hit in perspective?
I was so looking forward to it...I feel let down.  :Sad:

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## kyratshooter

> Oh, c'mon! You can't possibly give a rat's @ss about that. 
> Why deprive newbies and seasoned members alike of your valuable advice unique only to your way of putting $hit in perspective?
> I was so looking forward to it...I feel let down.


Actually you are right about the not caring thing.  

Everyone else was having such a good time I didn't want to walk in and take over.  

If I tick Sarge, Hunter and Rick off I will have no one to gang up with for my real battles against the enemies of common sense and confronting reality.  

After all we are the super-heroes of the survival world, but I should not have to point that out to a woman with a Bat-cat for an avitar.

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## BornthatWay

Oh please Kyrat give him an answer. I cannot possibly become one of the ole F.A.R.T.S if you do not teach me the ways of the wise ones.

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## kyratshooter

> Oh please Kyrat give him an answer. I cannot possibly become one of the ole F.A.R.T.S if you do not teach me the ways of the wise ones.


You attended a Jamboree, that officially makes you an ole FART already.

Preempted by two conditions.

You must have uttered the worlds "what were you thinking?" at least once to someone recovering from an act of complete stupidity.

You must also have looked at a small child and spoken the phrase "Becaue I said so!" and ment it!

Being of southern extraction I can not see any way you have escaped adult life without filling the requirements.

You can consider yourself fully qualified to tell a newb on a ROTTW fantacy he is out of his freekin' mind!

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## Sarge47

I found what DDD's looking for!  It's in the middle of the atlantic...open sea!  Starting a fire might be a bit difficult though.... :Innocent: .... :Sneaky2:

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## kyratshooter

I hear the Aleutians are beautiful this time of year!

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## 1stimestar

Heehee.  Just have to figure out what you are going to burn to keep warm.  You can, maybe, dig a hole in the ground to live in.

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## Rick

This is the loneliest place I've personally ever been to. 

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## Wildthang

Get thrown in prison and raise H*ll until you go to solitary confinement, that will be pretty lonely :Smartass:

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## kyratshooter

We get most of these European neewbs because to the German news network.

They love to do stories about nut jobs that find islands off the coast and live in tee-pees and shacks.  Most have abandoned families and espically WORK so they can "return to nature" free of rent, utility paynents and espicaly supporting their children.  

Clusters of these folk appear in remote spots as soon as the weather breaks each spring.  Groups of "like minded individuals" all hiding from reality.  When you google the locations you find they are not so isolated and the authorities come run the tresspassers out right after the show airs.

The specials show happy contented folk sitting around campfires strumming guitars, baking bread and drinking home made hooch.  they never show anyone sick, frozen to their bunks, starving or hurt with no help.

It is a European version of "My Side of the Mountain" with adults.  

They show the same clip for several days running so we can expect visits from more Germans, Dutch and Sweedes, espically the ones that do not get into the woods much or realize the rescources they have available nearby designed espically for recreation and the stress relief of of the population.

A quick week long hiking trip would cure most of this escapist desire.

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## hunter63

....Kinda like the '60's here.......

Actually I was being serious about Siberia......lot's of wide open country.

Some how I got on an Elk hunting mailing list.....hunts all over the world, including Siberia.....with classified ads in the back for buying land there....like 100 square kilometers (new kind of miles) for thus and such............I kept thinking "Russian Pondorsia".....Wild wild West, all over again....Comrade. 

So y'all don't think DDD was being serious?.... just pulling our leg?.... with a unreasonable, and impossible task and goal?....Not realizing that if I were to find such a place.....I sure wouldn't want a lazy and freeloading drain on society moving in next door.....?

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## randyt

lonely is a state of mind.

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## kyratshooter

[QUOTE=hunter63;389013So y'all don't think DDD was being serious?.... just pulling our leg?.... with a unreasonable, and impossible task and goal?....Not realizing that if I were to find such a place.....I sure wouldn't want a lazy and freeloading drain on society moving in next door.....?[/QUOTE]


The neighborhood couldn't stand two of us!

The OP departerd after that one post and seems to have not returned.

I still suspect the mods invent these trolls just to get a rise out of us!

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## Rick

Sssssh. We're upping the post count but that's on the QT. So ixnay on the mod comments.

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## hunter63

Been a slow week so far........

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## tipacanoe

you could try antarctica, no taxes, nobody else around 99.99999% of the place, one season (cold), nothing to eat, plenty of water.  I think it may be what you are looking for.

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## Wildthang

> you could try antarctica, no taxes, nobody else around 99.99999% of the place, one season (cold), nothing to eat, plenty of water.  I think it may be what you are looking for.


In the winter there is about 250,000 Eperor penguins there, but I dont know how edible they are!

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## randyt

they taste a lot like an otter.

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## Rick

I spent one night there and it was a 140,264 penguin night. Man was it cold.

It was really irritating too. No one let me know it was formal night.

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## welderguy

> I spent one night there and it was a 140,264 penguin night. Man was it cold.
> 
> It was really irritating too. No one let me know it was formal night.


Here is a picture of Ricks trip

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## hunter63

Now that is funny, I don't care who you are......LOL

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## cwi555

Siberia is more a region than a country. There are several actual countries in the region. The region covers parts of China, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, and the Russian Federation. The cold war area most are familiar with was the West Siberian Plain, Central Siberian Plateau, and Siberian Federal District. What many don't realize is that it's rich in minerals, platinum, diamonds, Uranium,  etc. A sizable portion of the West Siberian Plain has a severe uranium tailing problem. Uranium tailing is where the first stage of refining has been performed leaving a radioactive sludge that retains 85 percent of the ores original radioactivity. Left to dry (which the soviet union did when it collapsed), it dries up into a sand like consistency which can and did become airborne getting into the surrounding country side and in the water ways. There are large areas of the WSP that you do not want to go to for that reason. 

Between the three, the Gulags were used for dissident/slave labor camps to mine minerals etc. Industrial cities such as Norilsk sprang up during the Gulag period built by those slaves. Norilsk btw now claims 175,000 people for it's population and an extensive steel industry. 

While some parts of the Siberian Region may be pretty and devoid of humans, it must be remembered 'why' they stayed devoid of humanity. Not even the Soviets and their cruel Gulags could make a go of it in those areas. I've been to Norilsk on business, and came to the conclusion it sucks, life is hard enough in that area without getting into the back country of Siberia, especially when you recall the soviets used it for various testing of weapons due to it's desolate location. 

My two cents worth.

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## 1stimestar

Thanks CW.  That was interesting.

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## BENESSE

How come no high school quarterback, or a valedictorian posts a thread like this?

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## kyratshooter

> How come no high school quarterback, or a valedictorian posts a thread like this?


You noticed that?

Perhaps they are too busy making wise decisions and their lives take a different track.  We will call it the "Non-Loser Express".  Often it involves the military, college, specialized training and things that are interesting to do and which they do well. 

Eventually they wind up sitting and talking to their spouse, going to the kids soccer game, watching them run track, working on that next project that will net them a good living over the next decade and being "normal".

If they get normal enough they will buy a nice 5 acre place on the lake, build that nice log cabin, retire at 60, play with the grandkids on holidays and teach them to fish off the boat dock.  

Really normal ones will have a well stocked pantry, a storm room for safety, a generator for bad weather emergencies and a few solar pannels on the roof for money saving solar power. 

In short, they are too busy enjoying their lives to want to escape from the delights they are being forced to endure.

But everyone already knows that.

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## Solar Geek

CWI thanks for the info - I  ignorantly thought it was like a "province" or county; albeit huge.

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## hunter63

> Siberia is more a region than a country. There are several actual countries in the region. The region covers parts of China, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, and the Russian Federation. The cold war area most are familiar with was the West Siberian Plain, Central Siberian Plateau, and Siberian Federal District. What many don't realize is that it's rich in minerals, platinum, diamonds, Uranium,  etc. A sizable portion of the West Siberian Plain has a severe uranium tailing problem. Uranium tailing is where the first stage of refining has been performed leaving a radioactive sludge that retains 85 percent of the ores original radioactivity. Left to dry (which the soviet union did when it collapsed), it dries up into a sand like consistency which can and did become airborne getting into the surrounding country side and in the water ways. There are large areas of the WSP that you do not want to go to for that reason. 
> 
> Between the three, the Gulags were used for dissident/slave labor camps to mine minerals etc. Industrial cities such as Norilsk sprang up during the Gulag period built by those slaves. Norilsk btw now claims 175,000 people for it's population and an extensive steel industry. 
> 
> While some parts of the Siberian Region may be pretty and devoid of humans, it must be remembered 'why' they stayed devoid of humanity. Not even the Soviets and their cruel Gulags could make a go of it in those areas. I've been to Norilsk on business, and came to the conclusion it sucks, life is hard enough in that area without getting into the back country of Siberia, especially when you recall the soviets used it for various testing of weapons due to it's desolate location. 
> 
> My two cents worth.


Thanks, I was just going from memory from the classified ads I saw a while ago....Kinda like the "Free land in Alaska" ads you used to see in the back of magizines.
Hey the guy says he wants to go away from people, taxes, and reant.....I didn't say it would be easy....LOL

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## hunter63

> You noticed that?
> 
> Perhaps they are too busy making wise decisions and their lives take a different track.  We will call it the "Non-Loser Express".  Often it involves the military, college, specialized training and things that are interesting to do and which they do well. 
> 
> Eventually they wind up sitting and talking to their spouse, going to the kids soccer game, watching them run track, working on that next project that will net them a good living over the next decade and being "normal".
> 
> If they get normal enough they will buy a nice 5 acre place on the lake, build that nice log cabin, retire at 60, play with the grandkids on holidays and teach them to fish off the boat dock.  
> 
> Really normal ones will have a well stocked pantry, a storm room for safety, a generator for bad weather emergencies and a few solar pannels on the roof for money saving solar power. 
> ...



Yeah, and maybe even have time to try to impart information to those that care to listen....that's the hard part....Oh well.....

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## cwi555

> Thanks, I was just going from memory from the classified ads I saw a while ago....Kinda like the "Free land in Alaska" ads you used to see in the back of magizines.
> Hey the guy says he wants to go away from people, taxes, and reant.....I didn't say it would be easy....LOL


I would classify trying what was proposed in the OP as a death wish in that area. I Remember the adds for 'free land' in Alaska. My first time in Alaska was working Prudhoe Bay. I went to visit a couple of those 'free land' locations on my first rotation. As the old saying goes, "ain't nothing for 'free'".

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## hunter63

I have been tempted to start a thread ...."Hi, I'm new to space travel, but me and a couple of friends want to go to Mars....What do I need?.....PS the X-wing is in the shop".

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## cwi555

> I have been tempted to start a thread ...."Hi, I'm new to space travel, but me and a couple of friends want to go to Mars....What do I need?.....PS the X-wing is in the shop".


I dunno, somebody might take you serious.

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## huskymill

> I have been tempted to start a thread ...."Hi, I'm new to space travel, but me and a couple of friends want to go to Mars....What do I need?.....PS the X-wing is in the shop".


man just think about it... that would be a pretty awesome trip. of course theres nothing to hunt on mars so no food, and the ice caps are co2 instead of water so nothing to drink, and its farther away from the sun than earth so its going to be pretty cold, no wood to start a fire to combat the cold, oh and theres no oxygen so that might be another set back, but other than that it might be fun  :Whistling:

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## crashdive123

> man just think about it... that would be a pretty awesome trip. of course theres nothing to hunt on mars so no food, and the ice caps are co2 instead of water so nothing to drink, and its farther away from the sun than earth so its going to be pretty cold, no wood to start a fire to combat the cold, oh and theres no oxygen so that might be another set back, but other than that it might be fun


I guess he'll have to bring TWO altoid tin survival kits then.

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## hunter63

When ever I see one of the "want to go into the wilderness threads I think of a Mars thread I got into a few years back.....about the same thing.

Actually the first forum I was ever on was a Mother Earth News forum....Homesteading stuff.....kinda went down for 6 months, came back up...and just died out.....But.

Guy posted a thread...."What can I grow for 30 people...on Mars".
Figuring on the fact it is farther from the sun, so a low light situation etc, etc.......got pretty interesting for a while there, had a web site and his own forum.
Went on for about 30 pages, some cool ideas, and of course some BS-ing around.....then one day he was gone.

Checking his web site/forum....no body home....still there, no activity.

So I thought that he either took off for Mars....or had collected enough money from donors...and just skipped.

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## Seniorman

HUNTER 63 - 


> " So I thought that he either took off for Mars....*or had collected enough money from donors...and just skipped...."*


More likely he just took the money and ran.

As the great showman P.T. Barnum once allegedly said, "A sucker is born every minute."   :Clown: 

S.M.

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## hunter63

LOL, Yeah, that thought crossed my mind....was interesting though......Like what do you do on a Saturday night?

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## Power Giant

Himalayas:

2493913405.jpg

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## thefemalesurvivalist

> A quick week long hiking trip would cure most of this escapist desire.


truer words were never spoken

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## Wildthang

Yeah a lot of those numpty threads should start out as:

Hi, I am a stupid kid that absolutely knows nothing about wilderness survival, and have never even camped out with my dad. But I am tired of society and am going to the wolderness to live off the land, illegally poach animals, squat on somebody elses land, and start fires where I'm not supposed to. So, now, how do I start a fire!

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## hunter63

> Yeah a lot of those numpty threads should start out as:
> 
> Hi, I am a stupid kid that absolutely knows nothing about wilderness survival, and have never even camped out with my dad. But I am tired of society and am going to the wolderness to live off the land, illegally poach animals, squat on somebody elses land, and start fires where I'm not supposed to. So, now, how do I start a fire!


I do have to say it's a good thing that some one is showing an interest....and the wording seems pretty stupid somethimes, but there is some interest besides living in Mom's basement........
Ya think, or am I just kidding my self?

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## Rick

> So I thought that he either took off for Mars....or had collected enough money from donors...and just skipped.




Was that you!!?? No, I made it to Mars. The only hard part is the time delay in typing to post on here.

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## crashdive123

He made it.  Wifi did not.

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## Davidlastink

Lonely... get the wife ticked off... yeah you will see lonely then.

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## thefemalesurvivalist

> Lonely... get the wife ticked off... yeah you will see lonely then.


I Love it! Good point, Davidlastink  :Smile:

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## Davidlastink

I can tell you from first hand experiences Siberia aint got nothing on wifebarrens

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## finallyME

> Lonely... get the wife ticked off... yeah you will see lonely then.


Wait.....you mean there is a time when she isn't?

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## 1stimestar

> I do have to say it's a good thing that some one is showing an interest....and the wording seems pretty stupid somethimes, but there is some interest besides living in Mom's basement........
> Ya think, or am I just kidding my self?


No I agree.  Sometimes they are just young and dumb, they don't know exactly what they want to do but know they want to do "something" out in the woods.  They don't know the vernacular or much of anything about "it".  I do think we jump a bit early on the young and dumbs.  Sometimes.  Sometimes it is too obvious that they are just idjits and that is different then dumb/uneducated/inexperienced.  But I think the only young person who came here asking questions then actually went out and did, was Payne.

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## hunter63

It is hard to tell by some of the questions if the person is 15 or 40, no information, just a wide eyed idea....Good or bad.
So in that light, advice is given sparingly at best, and or the person is dumped on with no mercy at the worst.

Sometimes it's all on how you ask........but I have to say, that some of the questions....like the OP of this thread, are just plain stupid, and I do wonder where the idea that of "free anything" comes from.

I do applaud the intrest....but question the motives presented.

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## Oddmott

> Sometimes it's all on how you ask........but I have to say, that some of the questions....like the OP of this thread, are just plain stupid, and I do wonder where the idea that of "free anything" comes from.


I'm new here and not looking to start any fights - also want to state that I own 90 acres of my own and pay taxes and have a job - but it's a pretty "natural" feeling to yearn for free, no-charge living.

Thinking back to just the turn of the century, thousands of Native peoples world-wide couldn't accept or identify with the colonial concept of "owning" nature, owning land. 
Sure they fought amongst themselves over the best food & water resources, but not in an "owning" (paying for deed & title) way, simply a "we hold it now as we're the strongest, when we're no longer the strongest we'll lose it and have to move on".

I have no problem wondering who gave people, nations, municipalities the right to decide which chunks of land belong to which person or people. I often feel "cheated" that I can't just head off into a wilderness and live as man and beasts were meant to, because everything, everywhere is "owned".

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## welderguy

> I'm new here and not looking to start any fights - also want to state that I own 90 acres of my own and pay taxes and have a job - but it's a pretty "natural" feeling to yearn for free, no-charge living.
> 
> Thinking back to just the turn of the century, thousands of Native peoples world-wide couldn't accept or identify with the colonial concept of "owning" nature, owning land. 
> Sure they fought amongst themselves over the best food & water resources, but not in an "owning" (paying for deed & title) way, simply a "we hold it now as we're the strongest, when we're no longer the strongest we'll lose it and have to move on".
> 
> I have no problem wondering who gave people, nations, municipalities the right to decide which chunks of land belong to which person or people. I often feel "cheated" that I can't just head off into a wilderness and live as man and beasts were meant to, because everything, everywhere is "owned".


 Living off grid, is one thing, such as having your land payed off, a solar system for energy, a couple wells. growing your own food . etc, etc. IS a dream of a lot of us here. living Free, by squatting on land that isnt yours to avoid property taxes, poaching for game, not having or wanting a job. that's just being a bum and a burden to society, and personally have no use for said people.

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## Sarge47

> I'm new here and not looking to start any fights - also want to state that I own 90 acres of my own and pay taxes and have a job - but it's a pretty "natural" feeling to yearn for free, no-charge living.
> 
> Thinking back to just the turn of the century, thousands of Native peoples world-wide couldn't accept or identify with the colonial concept of "owning" nature, owning land. 
> Sure they fought amongst themselves over the best food & water resources, but not in an "owning" (paying for deed & title) way, simply a "we hold it now as we're the strongest, when we're no longer the strongest we'll lose it and have to move on".
> 
> I have no problem wondering who gave people, nations, municipalities the right to decide which chunks of land belong to which person or people. I often feel "cheated" that I can't just head off into a wilderness and live as man and beasts were meant to, because everything, everywhere is "owned".


So do you consider getting a bunch of negative responses "fights?"  If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question..... :Shifty:

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## Ken

> Sorry but it had to be said!!!!


I agree, Dave.  He needs to be told.


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## welderguy

> I agree, Dave.  He needs to be told.
> 
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


 +1 , that just about sums it up.

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## hunter63

> I'm new here and not looking to start any fights - also want to state that I own 90 acres of my own and pay taxes and have a job - but it's a pretty "natural" feeling to yearn for free, no-charge living.
> 
> Thinking back to just the turn of the century, thousands of Native peoples world-wide couldn't accept or identify with the colonial concept of "owning" nature, owning land. 
> Sure they fought amongst themselves over the best food & water resources, but not in an "owning" (paying for deed & title) way, simply a "we hold it now as we're the strongest, when we're no longer the strongest we'll lose it and have to move on".
> 
> I have no problem wondering who gave people, nations, municipalities the right to decide which chunks of land belong to which person or people. I often feel "cheated" that I can't just head off into a wilderness and live as man and beasts were meant to, because everything, everywhere is "owned".


Sorry you feel like that, and there ain't no fight, just stating how it is...not how someone wants it to be.

Have a nice day....

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## Rick

> Thinking back to just the turn of the century, thousands of Native peoples world-wide couldn't accept or identify with the colonial concept of "owning" nature, owning land. 
> Sure they fought amongst themselves over the best food & water resources, but not in an "owning" (paying for deed & title) way, simply a "we hold it now as we're the strongest, when we're no longer the strongest we'll lose it and have to move on".
> 
> I have no problem wondering who gave people, nations, municipalities the right to decide which chunks of land belong to which person or people. I often feel "cheated" that I can't just head off into a wilderness and live as man and beasts were meant to, because everything, everywhere is "owned".




It's nothing more than the civilized version of fighting for the best food and water resources. Rather than fund an army to take whatever piece of property you wanted it was just easier to provide cattle, pigs, grain, etc in exchange. That simply evolved into money. It's actually no different that Native Americans fighting over the best water hole just a bit less bloody. If they didn't allow others to use it they "owned" it outright.

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## Oddmott

> So do you consider getting a bunch of negative responses "fights?"  If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.....


Nope, responses of any sort don't bother me any. And I didn't ask any questions, simply commented that for many people(s) our concept of ownership of something as vast as nature is impossible to comprehend or appreciate.




> It's nothing more than the civilized version of fighting for the best food and water resources. Rather than fund an army to take whatever piece of property you wanted it was just easier to provide cattle, pigs, grain, etc in exchange. That simply evolved into money. It's actually no different that Native Americans fighting over the best water hole just a bit less bloody. If they didn't allow others to use it they "owned" it outright.


You make an interesting point, but an important distinction is that many such cultures don't/didn't even have a translatable word for "owners". The closest would be "holders" which is similar but not the same.

Anyways, like i first stated, i play by the "rules" but can easily see how folks can be disenfranchised by being on a pretty awesome planet, having very base and natural urges to live a certain way... but not being able to because everything is "owned" according to a very narrow and not globally accepted viewpoint.

The best news for the OP and anyone with such urges, is that truly remote and isolated land IS available and it's usually DIRT CHEAP to lease or buy. Work hard & live cheap for even just a couple seasons and you'd have enough saved to buy decent acreage.

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## cwi555

Just a suggestion, maybe a thread where members can describe these kind of places they have been. 
If it is getting as prevalent as its being made out, the thread could simply be referenced.

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## crashdive123

> Just a suggestion, maybe a thread where members can describe these kind of places they have been. 
> If it is getting as prevalent as its being made out, the thread could simply be referenced.


The problem is (with a brief history) that we get waves - sometimes frequent, sometimes not so much that have the same basic thought/question process.

It goes something like.......I am fed up with society.  I want to go live in the woods and only eat wild animals, fish and wild plants.  I don't have any experience in the bush.  I don't have any money.  I don't have any gear.  I plan on staying out at least a year.  Where should I go?

This, sadly is all too common.  This question is asked without an intro, or providing any personal info at all.  It's tough to take them too seriously and tougher to devote more effort into solving the problem than the poster is willing to put into it.

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## cwi555

> The problem is (with a brief history) that we get waves - sometimes frequent, sometimes not so much that have the same basic thought/question process.
> 
> It goes something like.......I am fed up with society.  I want to go live in the woods and only eat wild animals, fish and wild plants.  I don't have any experience in the bush.  I don't have any money.  I don't have any gear.  I plan on staying out at least a year.  Where should I go?
> 
> This, sadly is all too common.  This question is asked without an intro, or providing any personal info at all.  It's tough to take them too seriously and tougher to devote more effort into solving the problem than the poster is willing to put into it.


Put that way, it sounds more like a rash of darwin candidates.

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## hunter63

> Put that way, it sounds more like a rash of darwin candidates.


Bingo!....we have winner!

Called by some as a "Fruit Cake toss"....gets really hard the give a serious answer, on a once a week occurrence.

Lot of stuff has been made into stickies, as a list of place to go might be...no one reads those apparently.

(repeat to my self, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all...repeat.....but it's hard)

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## Oddmott

> Called by some as a "Fruit Cake toss"....gets really hard the give a serious answer, on a once a week occurrence.
> 
> [/SIZE]


Haha, just copy and paste your best material each time!  :Thumbup:

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## BENESSE

> (repeat to my self, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all...repeat.....but it's hard)


Reminds me of a saying by a Alice Roosevelt, Teddy's daughter...something along the lines of,
_If you can't say something nice, come it next to me._

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## hunter63

> Haha, just copy and paste your best material each time!


Or save it in a word doc....saves all the two finger typing.....
It's been said that there has not been an original thought since the invention of 'cut/copy and paste"...1990's?

I want to go on record to say that I invented the "cut and paste" in the early '60's, while writing term papers, but did it with scissors, note book paper and scotch tape, my senior history paper was 15 feet long....when I gave it to my "secretary"...girlfreind at the time that could type.

She was a good "spellchecker" as well..........
Kids have it too easy these days, by George, I tell ya.....No wonder they can't get out of the basement.

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## Ken

I flunked "cut and paste" in school.  I kept cutting myself with those rounded scissors and got Elmer's Paste and Glue all over my desk and my seat and my clothes and the floor.  What a mess.  I was so embarrassed........

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## Power Giant

> I'm new here and not looking to start any fights - also want to state that I own 90 acres of my own and pay taxes and have a job - but it's a pretty "natural" feeling to yearn for free, no-charge living.
> 
> Thinking back to just the turn of the century, thousands of Native peoples world-wide couldn't accept or identify with the colonial concept of "owning" nature, owning land. 
> Sure they fought amongst themselves over the best food & water resources, but not in an "owning" (paying for deed & title) way, simply a "we hold it now as we're the strongest, when we're no longer the strongest we'll lose it and have to move on".
> 
> I have no problem wondering who gave people, nations, municipalities the right to decide which chunks of land belong to which person or people. I often feel "cheated" that I can't just head off into a wilderness and live as man and beasts were meant to, because everything, everywhere is "owned".


Land owner here. But more so, I consider myself a steward of the land. The goal is to leave the land better off than I found it.

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## Seniorman

The next time someone posts here, "Where can I go to get off the grid and just live without having to deal with people, where I can live off the land, and be alone?" etc., tell him to watch this video.  He (or she) just might have an eye opening about "getting back to Nature," and living the remote life away from the "evils" of civilization.

"_Agafia's Taiga Life_." 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2AYafET68

Interesting, but it ain't for this child!

S.M.

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