# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  12 day growing season

## cabingal4

what can a person grow in the high desert and
with a growing season of 12 days?
we have lots of heat but also the nites drop to cold.
we have talked with our neighbors but they too are sort of learning
by trial and error themselves.
they have green houses.so i know we will be building a green house or
two in the future.
i do want to plant sea berry plants.
has anyone has any experiences with those?
mostly i figure so far we will be able to grow lettuce.
lots of lettuce but i want to grow more of a variety of veggies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_swVi5X_-cY

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## randyt

Sprouts or perhaps radishes.

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## hunter63

I guess I have to ask....Are you sure you mean 12 days growing season?...Not 102 days?

Here is one for short season 110 days high altitude.

www.cals.uidaho.edu/edcomm/pdf/bul/bul0857.pdf

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## LowKey

Only 12 frost free nights? Yikes!

Sea Berries?
You need a male and a female plant to get berries on only one of them. I'm sure the guys here will love to know that you can have 7 to 10 females for every male plant. It isn't a one to one. And they can be quite aggressive in their growth habit and thornage. A mature tree grows 10' high and 10' wide and can have 1" thorns, usually mixed along with the fruit, which makes picking exciting. I had a pair of these at a former house location. They weren't very happy so I didn't have any trouble with it. But I've seen em get pretty big. I see Raintree Nursery has a few different cultivars and sells them identified as male and female (I buy a lot of things from them.) You might see if they have any suggestions for growing them where you live.

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## cabingal4

12 days.hee hee.
thanks lowkey for all the info. great info on sea berry trees.

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## cabingal4

this is near where we are...
http://letsgrowveggies.com/oregon/97624/frost_dates/

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## cabingal4

ok now i am looking and searching the web more and found this article.
gardening in snow country.
it gives a longer growing season for the area we are in.
But it says its hard to grow vegetable gardens cause it can freeze anytime.
so now i am seriously starting to see what i can grow there and how.
http://chiloquin.com/services-organi...ons/gardening/

s you can see – about 6 weeks between the last hard freeze of spring and the first hard freeze of fall (that’s 27-28 degrees F). Not much time for those heat-loving veggies, but it can be done with a few tricks. One of the biggest problems we face as vegetable gardeners here is that even when it does warm up, the nights stay very cool – usually in the mid-40′s, sometimes dipping into the 30′s and sometimes up into the 50′s. Given that tomatoes do not set fruit if the night-time temperature is below 55 degrees, it’s a miracle that some gardeners here can grow them and get fruit!

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## Rick

It looks like you are in zone 6A. Looking at your average temperatures you shouldn't have any problem late June through August. I would think you would have much closer to 100 days than 12. Go to or call your county extension office and talk to them. They can tell you exactly what your growing season is and what plants will do best in your location. The Klamath County Extension Office is supported by Oregon State University. Here's their web page: 

http://oregonstate.edu/dept/kbrec/

Your county extension office is a great resource. They generally have loads of information on their web site and the Master Garderners are a wealth of information as is the local agent.

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## 1stimestar

Lettuces and cabbage should be ok, peas probably.

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## cabingal4

Rick.thanks.
i always saw the 12 day link.threw me for a loop.
now i am looking and searching to find more of what i can grow before we make the big move.
i have even seen this area say we have one month of growing time.so i have been confused on this.
this is why i posted.to see what others thought or knew.
mostly i am seeing we shall truly need to make us some green houses.
it is never 55 degrees ever in the nite time.so the article said tomatoe plants dont set flowers if it does not get up to at least 55 degrees.
when we were there last week.it was suppose to be 38 degrees some of the morns.
they were wrong.it went to 40 in the nite the day was so hot.96 degrees.
soo this is gonna be tricky growings.
thats a good idea on the oregon extenstion office.i am hoping they have our area in it.
i am sure they will.i am checking it out.

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## cabingal4

thanks 1stimestar-i think those are probably pretty right.

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## cabingal4

well i think we maybe are zone 5a...

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## 1stimestar

You can still grow without a green house.  You just need to cover them during frost warnings.  Some pvc to make a hoop frame and plastic sheeting that can be throw over easily is quite popular here.

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## cabingal4

> You can still grow without a green house.  You just need to cover them during frost warnings.  Some pvc to make a hoop frame and plastic sheeting that can be throw over easily is quite popular here.


hi 1stimestar...yes. that is what the neighbors are doing too.
i wil have to check them out more.
dont want to be a pest at our woods with the neighbors.
one fella took me and hubby thru his garden.it was still early and things were just coming up.
they had a bit of this and that.sparse.
this fella was cultivating the currants out there but i did not know if he dug up the bush .he had gathered wild strawberries too and was trying to get berries out of them.
he had alot of lettuces.
soo i am getting ideas now.soon we wil be out there.we have a huge meadow.i want to plant fruit trees out there and nut trees.
i may have to have alot of gardening close by the cabin cause of so many animals wanting to munch on everything.
some fella out there has been growing some kind of fruit trees for years.one of them i noticed had no leaves.
they build fences around the trees cause of the deers.
it will be a whole kind of new gardening.we are in the portland,oregon area now and its easy gardening.
we have blueberries,raspberries,strawberries,rhubarb,plums  ,apples,grapes and a  pretty nice veggie garden.
in our woods.it will be a whole new uncertain learning experience at first.
fighting the cold that can happen any time.fighting all the wild life.
it will be interesting.thank u.

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## randyt

beets and swiss chard are hardy to the cold

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## Canoetripper

I think a green house would work the best for your location 
this way you will have more control over soils, fertilizer, water,
you can even install lighting, heating........the list goes on & on.............

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## Rick

You can also check for concrete remesh at your local Lowes. You can pick up 3.5X7 feet remesh for less than $8 and form a half circle over your plants. Stick one end in the ground on one side the the other end on the other side of the plant then lay plastic sheeting over it. 3 or 4 of those can do a pretty long row and give you room for taller plants like peppers. That would be a lot cheaper than a green house and give you the same benefits. Of course the longer the remesh the taller your "greenhouse". This is sort of the idea. 

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## randyt

That's really nice Rick but what do you grow in the gravel?

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## Rick

Crabgrass.

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## randyt

I've made hoop houses by driving re-bar stakes into the ground. leave a foot or so of re-bar sticking out of the ground. Hammer in two rows and then take a 3/4 inch by 10 foot cpvc pipe and stick one end over the re-bar and pull the other end down and stick it o the other re-bar. Make a row of them and you're all set for covering.

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## randyt

grabgrass or grab what?

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## hunter63

Ya gotta grab it to jerk it out.....grabgrass

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## Rick

[making note....poking fun at administrator......correction...brazenly poking fun at administrator]

Thank you for pointing out my error. (blowing dust off ban button).

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## randyt

yea Hunter, quit picking on Rick LOL.

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## crashdive123

PVC framed green houses range from the simple to the exotic.

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## cabingal4

thats some pretty grand ideas there Rick.
thank u so so much.i am getting  a notebook and writing down and doing a study of what i can grow
and do up in our woods.
be it 12 days,one month or 6 weeks growning season.we are gonna figure this out before we get out there.
thanks so much everyone.

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## Rick

And don't overlook wild foods. They have adapted to your climate so they can be a ready source of dinner free for the picking.

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## hunter63

> yea Hunter, quit picking on Rick LOL.


Have no fear....bigger fish looming.....LOL

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## Rick

(note to self...Hunter called me slim....place on do not ban list....)

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## randyt

Is that like a oxymoron? Ya know like the big guy called Tiny. LOL

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## randyt

> Have no fear....bigger fish looming.....LOL


I hear ya but I have never been one to tug on supermans cape, LOL.

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## Rick

1. poking fun at the admin. 2. making fun of admin. Just one more strike...at least you leave my cape alone. I might give you points for that.

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## crashdive123

Well........he did call you Superman.

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## randyt

Another oxymoron? just saying

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## crashdive123

Ya gotta work with me RT - calling Superman a moron will not go over well.  You probably meant Mormon, right?

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## randyt

Right my bad, Rick is a legend, ya open the dictionary to super administrator and lo and behold all there is a picture of Rick, yes siree.

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## Rick

(adjusting tie...hand through hair) More better.

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## cabingal4

this morning at the cabin as of a few minutes ago.it was 32 degrees at the cabin.
no telling what it dropped to in the nite.
greenhouses are in order me thinks!

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## cabingal4

i found out grapes have to be grown in a green house.
so its all these things i am looking forward to learning.

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## Rick

Make a list! Of course I'm now at the age I can't remember where I put the list.

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## cabingal4

Rick.me and the mister are discovering the same thing about ourselves.
thank u for all your help here.

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## cabingal4

ok.back from the woods.
the gardener out there is our neighbor.he explains alot to us.
he is wonderful in his gardening where its hard to grow much i tel u.
he said we are zone 5a but...we are in a mixed zone situation.
he said he orders all plants and seeds for zone 2,3 and 4.then what ever he orders in those zones will be
strong enough to survive our harsh climate.
i was mistaking a growing season as no days of frost.
soo.he said yes.we have had 12 days of no frost once.then he said this time we have had no frost for 2 months.
he is filled with knowledge to help us know what to grow out in those woods and he has lots of the green houses u were sharing Rick.
keeping u posted as we get closer to growing things out that way. :Blush:

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## cabingal4

was 29 the other morn in our woods.for sure will need these green houses everyone is speaking of.

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## Awanita

yep Randy swiss chard is  very good one to grow and you put it up like mustard greens. Grew alot of that in Wyoming. Rubarb also. I know I am late on the thread and can't believe I missed it. found a few more for you cabingal. Broccoli, collards, cabbage, kale turnips. I would think caulirflower and brussel sprouts would do well also. Take care I am starting to plan for next years garden.

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## vja4Him

There are lots of plants that will grow just fine even with temperatures dropping to the low 20s. I grow a wide variety of plants in the fall and winter, and I have seen one night drop to 18 Degrees F. !!! However, our below-freezing temperatures only last around three to four hours. Everyday, even the coldest, always warm up to above freezing, so that might make a difference ....

If you make cloches, you can grow some plants in weather even much colder, like my grandfather did in Portland, Oregon, for many years.

I can even plant seeds when the temperatures are below freezing at night !!! I have been planting seeds in our area for over 20 years now. These are some of the plants I have growing now: Henbit (Mint family), Stinging Nettles, Chickweed, Mallow, Peas, Arugula, Tatsoi, Garlic, Green Onions, Calendula, Oregano, Sage, Radish, various Greens, Carrots. I'm going to plant lots of Cilantro and Chamomile seeds soon, which have grown very well for me during the cold weather. I planted and scattered many seeds which are just starting to sprout > Mustard Greens, Turnips, Kale, Kohlrabi, Collards, Beets, Fava Beans, and more ....

Many of the plants in my garden grow wild now and come up every year as volunteers: Arugula, Milk Thistle, Sunflowers, Tatsoi, Green Onions, Radish, Henbit, Mallow, Stinging Nettles, Chickweed, Four O'clocks, California Poppies (survive all through the fall and winter, even with temperatures in the low 20s, then start flowering in late February, Pokeweed which the birds love, Gourds, Lilies, Morning Glories, Carnations, Bachelor's Buttons, Snapdragons, and more .....).

My garden has become a bird sanctuary !!!! I put out tons of bird seeds (many different kinds), which has attracted many species of birds: Mourning Doves, Western Scrub Jay, Mocking Bird, White Crowned Sparrow, House Sparrow, House Finch, Anna's Hummingbird (does not eat the seed, but is attracted to the many flowers in my garden, and also the humminbird feeder with sugar water).

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## cabingal4

thank u vja4Him  and Awanita -you give me inspiration and thoughts on what i can do.wonderful.thank u.

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