# General > General Knives & Blades >  Heat Treat with a Toaster/Convection oven

## pocomoonskyeyes

I had asked about this somewhere/someone and was told that a Toaster or Convection would not work. However it seems that just the opposite is true. According to several Makers it is actually PREFERRED over your kitchen oven, Especially with the Convection Oven. It is suggested,However, that you use a oven thermometer as almost all units Temp. Dials are off, sometimes by several degrees!! For more info on this conversation/thread try this link -
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=6390

**** NOTE****
This is for Tempering!!

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## crashdive123

Just don't get heat treating and tempering mixed up.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

Thanks for catching that Crash!! That was what I meant....ooops!!

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## crashdive123

The knife makers that are giving me tips cringe when I tell them how I heat treat and temper a knife.  They tell me (accurately) that your ideal temp when heat treating can be off by several hundred degrees by using the crude method that I do.  It seems to work ok for me, but I've got to remember that these guys are selling their stuff for some pretty high dollar amounts.  The guy featured in Blade this month (page 28) has sold knives for $4200.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> The knife makers that are giving me tips cringe when I tell them how I heat treat and temper a knife.  They tell me (accurately) that your ideal temp when heat treating can be off by several hundred degrees by using the crude method that I do.  It seems to work ok for me, but I've got to remember that these guys are selling their stuff for some pretty high dollar amounts.  The guy featured in Blade this month (page 28) has sold knives for $4200.


This is a real good point! I'd say mastering the heat treat and tempering process is alot more "involved" than just grinding out a blade...Our friend Pancho knows this fact!

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## canid

tempering is part of the heat treatment process, so don't get heat treatment and hardening alone mixed up either.

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## panch0

I agree with crash on heat treating on uncontrolled heat. It will make a decent knife, but if you are going to sell these knives you need to be sure the HT is dead on. Your reputation is all you have in this business if you want to call it that. A maker selling knives with bad heat treating will have his/her name get around quickly. I am working to get a HT oven up and working to learn this part of knifemaking. HT is the most important part of a knife after the design. You can have a pretty knife with a bad HT and that knife will never hold an edge or perform to one properly HTed. I send mine out for HT right now so I can sleep good at night knowing that the HT is good and has been tested and guaranteed by my heat treater. If you have a back yard forge for heat treating, you may want to invest in a PID to help control temperatures and use steel that does not require a long soak at temp. I have been told to start off with 1080 and 1084 steel and will recommend it also. I understand why these steels are good for those learning to HT. They are good steels and you just need to get them to 1500 degrees for a few minutes then quickly quench. I would also suggest buying a couple of gallons of quenching oil from Mcmaster Carr. It is about 15 dollars a gallon plus shipping. I will be ordering 2 gallons to start with. Mineral, ATS, etc... will work sort of, but to get the maximun capabilities from a steel one needs to use a quenching oil designed for the type of steel being hardened. They are designed to quench at the appropriate speeds. 1080 and 1084 are a fast quenching steel. I am still learning and don't know it all by any means, but this is what I have been told time and time again by guys who know their stuff.

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## Camp10

The heat treat is my favorite part of knifemaking.  Yes, you can use a toaster oven to temper some knife steel BUT be sure to use an accurate thermometer and watch it like a hawk.  I still do use one for my forged knives but I have wrapped it in insulation to keep the temps even and keep a close eye on the temps inside it.  For some steels you have to use your HT oven because the tempering temps are to high for a regular oven.

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## huntermj

Poco.
Maybe in another thead.
Could you talk about your new avatar ?
I know what it looks like to me, but i could be wrong.
I would be intersted in your take on it.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

HMJ I'm not sure, I like and use Native American avatars. This is just one I found online.

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## huntermj

OK. thats cool.
The image made me think of what we would call a clown.
Not in a bad way. A clown is a constant reminder of our foolishness, He is a caricature of our selfs. he is our mirror. He helps to keep us honest with ourselves.

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## Ted

> OK. thats cool.
> The image made me think of what we would call a clown.
> Not in a bad way. A clown is a constant reminder of our foolishness, He is a caricature of our selfs. he is our mirror. He helps to keep us honest with ourselves.


psssssssss. Hey hunter, put it down, you've had enough for tonight!

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## pocomoonskyeyes

Here's a pretty good little link about Heat Treating O-1 Steel. Funny thing is, it's just a more in depth thing to what Crash has been saying all along!!

http://www.artmetal.com/files/import...es/O1tech.html

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## Camp10

O-1 is very forgiving as a knife steel.  I think you made a good choice picking it for your first knife (knives) Poco.

 I would recommend 5160 for your first try at heat treating though.  It almost never misses!  Get it to critical...check with a magnet, hold it for a minute longer and quench in olive oil.  It is that easy!  Check it with a file as quenched if you want, just to make sure it hardened.  Temper it back at around 400 for 90 minutes (x2) and you have a knife.

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