# Prepping / Emergency Preparedness > Bags, Kits and Vehicles >  Bug Out Bag issues

## Zack

I recently acquired a new pack that I hope to make into my new bug out bag.  It's a Medium ALICE pack in woodland camo, not OD.  I like it because it's roomy, has just enough pockets, and was less than $10 on ebay.  However, I've got issues with it already.  First, the pack didn't come  with shoulder straps.  I have an OD ALICE, which has the whole frame, but I want the camo one to go straps-only.  

Next up is food.  How much food do you folks take in a BOB?  What food do you take?  Where do you get it cheapest?  

Next is shelter.  Is a hardware store tarp, a couple Mylar blankets, and a wool USGI blanket enough?

Finally, what accessories do you need?  I've got a knife, basic fire kit, and other very basic gear, but what should I get that I may be forgetting?  I live in Delaware, where we've got dense forests with small creeks that run through them.  Anybody have any advice?

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## crashdive123

Zack, I edited your post.  We do have a sale/trade section but you need 100 posts to list items there for sale or trade.

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## Zack

Oops, sorry.  My bad.  It won't happen again, until I get 100 posts, that is.

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## Rick

If you want the camo one straps only then order straps. Make certain you check your eBay purchase closely and see if it was supposed to include straps before you buy some. 

In order to answer the rest of your questions you need to tell us where you intend to bug out to. My plans are to bug out to family or a hotel so what's in my pack would be very different than someone that wants to bug out to the woods.

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## RangerXanatos

What is your idea time limit? Would you be bugging out for 3 days or 3 months?

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## natertot

Zack, I do not subscribe to a "Bug Out Bag" but I do have a "Get Home Bag" which may be similar for your purposes. Mine too is a medium ALICE with straps only in OD. I avoid camouflage to avoid looking too "tactical" and drawing unnecessary attention to me in the event I have to use it. 

Food consists of three packets of instant oatmeal, three pouches of tuna (Pouches are lighter than cans and store better), three pouches of chicken, three cliff bars, bag of jerky, bag of trail mix, and three "Cup O Noodles" removed from package and crushed up then stored in sealed bags. 

Our shelter is pretty much the same. Not sure what your tarp dimensions are, but mine is a 10'x12'. I also have a half dozen cheap aluminum tent stakes and 50' of paracord with it.

If you are comfy and proficient with your fire kit in all conditions, keep it. I also added an Esbit Stove with fuel to mine for times/locations where an actual fire would not be beneficial. I also have the "trick" candles that don't blow out for windy conditions. I love those things.

I good, basic first aid kit that works for you should be added to your bag. My first aid kit also has water purify tabs in them as a back up to not having fire. I would also add a little bit of clothing. A pair of wool socks, under garment, cargo pants and wool sweater are in mine.

All this will give you shelter, clothing, food, and water. Enough to get through for three days, maybe more if you ration your resources right and know how to employ everything right. I suggest testing out the bag by using it on an overnighter camping. Find out what works, what didn't, what items you caught yourself saying "gee, I wish I had.......". This will tell you more than any of us could about what you need. 

Good luck and feel free to PM me anytime you want.

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## crashdive123

> What is your idea time limit? Would you be bugging out for 3 days or 3 months?


Three months is not bugging out, but rather relocating.  Just sayin'.

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## Zack

I don't know how many of you guys were on the East Coast when Hurricane Sandy hit, but I was.  We didn't get hit very hard in Delaware but people in New Jersey and New York did.  A friend of my family's lived on the coast, and we asked her how her house made out.  "It didn't." was her answer.  I know people over there are still recovering from the storm, as are people in New Orleans.  A storm like that could disable a lot for a long time.  My plans are to head to a relative's house, who lives outside of the "disaster zone".  Their home, however, is 2 1/2-3 hours away.  The roads to get there are a mix of urban, suburban, and rural areas.  Ideally we would take a car or truck, but if traffic gets too congested, we get our packs on and start walking.  The distance is approximately 80 miles from my house to the "BOL".  I think I've got half of a good kit done:

As far as water goes, I've got an aluminum water bottle and some USGI 1 quart canteens.    

For shelter, all I've got is a Red Cross rescue blanket, an emergency blanket ($1 variety), and a hardware store tarp.  If it was too cold, I might take a USGI blanket.  

If something occurred right now, all I'd have for food is a couple cans of soup from the pantry (exactly why I'm asking for help).

I've got some Buck knives, a fire kit, first aid kit, some simple tools, cordage, Maglites, compass (no map though), and a few other odds and ends too.  

I hope this info helps, thanks for the replies.

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## Rick

80 miles is not a great distance as long as you leave prior to the storm making landfall. Ideally, you want to have clothes, personal hygiene, medicines and money in small denominations since power might be out and cash registers and ATM's might not be working. Think about what you would need to live for a week at some other location and make certain you have that in your bag/vehicle.

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## Zack

> 80 miles is not a great distance as long as you leave prior to the storm making landfall. Ideally, you want to have clothes, personal hygiene, medicines and money in small denominations since power might be out and cash registers and ATM's might not be working. Think about what you would need to live for a week at some other location and make certain you have that in your bag/vehicle.


I agree, but if something were to prohibit my evacuation or an entirely different scenario presented itself, I would like to have a general purpose bag.  Thanks for the opinion though, it's something that I hadn't quite thought of yet.

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## ElevenBravo

I only do GHB.  For that, 3 daze food.. longer if I starve myself, TP, water filter, tarp, weapon, ammo, etc...   Ya know, the stuff you might need if it takes 3 daze to get home.

EB

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## Zack

Wait just a minute everybody!  I just solved problem 1.  In the very bottom of the rucksack, I found a set of shoulder straps!  There goes problem 1, but I've still got 2,3, and 4.  Keep the responses coming!  I'm learning a lot!  Merry Christmas!

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## natertot

I do want to resound what Rick and ElevenBravo said. Hygiene, script meds, cash, toilet paper, and a firearm are essentials as well. Hygiene items I have include small toothbrush, small tube toothpaste, small 2oz bottle of wash suitable for body and hair, small stick of deodorant, toilet paper, small travel pack of baby wipes, and a small 1oz bottle of hand sanitizer. I always forget to mention script meds cause I'm not on any. As far as cash goes, I carry $100 in a small case away from my wallet. I consists of $10 in quarters, $40 in ones and $50 in fives. I keep small denominations because of the likelihood that change won't be given. In my case, I won't get shorted more than 24cents. Pretty good in my book. As far as a firearm goes, I keep a small cache of options and types of ammo available. Gotta look at what works for you.

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## hunter63

It has been brought up, but can't be stressed enough......
Build your bag, ....take it out and try to camp over night with it....then extend a couple of days.
Three days isn't bad, one week do able on carried stuff......more is pushing it.

Then try to carry it with all your packed gear.....one tends to over pack or under pack.

As far a guns and ammo, you state laws will apply.....and big survival knives may also be outlawed.....Know your laws and rules.

Have you ever walked 80 miles?....What time of year?....Bug out's usually aren't planned.....they happen.

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## hayshaker

where,s my ^%%$# post it took over 20min to type and what i,m bumped ote fourm and my post gets zapped as well 
what,s up with that^^&^%$##

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## Zack

I am going on a primitive overnight later this week.  I'll try out a kit then.  Then build on it or trim it down.  Then, after another outing, I'll remove or add to it again.  I'll be sure to let everyone know how the trip goes.

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## hunter63

> I am going on a primitive overnight later this week.  I'll try out a kit then.  Then build on it or trim it down.  Then, after another outing, I'll remove or add to it again.  I'll be sure to let everyone know how the trip goes.


Outstanding....that's the way to get your personnel needs taken care of....then you will know.

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## crashdive123

> where,s my ^%%$# post it took over 20min to type and what i,m bumped ote fourm and my post gets zapped as well 
> what,s up with that^^&^%$##


This was explained to you the last time you accused moderators of deleting your post.  Go back and read the answers and suggestions.

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## crashdive123

> I don't know how many of you guys were on the East Coast when Hurricane Sandy hit, but I was.  We didn't get hit very hard in Delaware but people in New Jersey and New York did.  A friend of my family's lived on the coast, and we asked her how her house made out.  "It didn't." was her answer.  I know people over there are still recovering from the storm, as are people in New Orleans.  A storm like that could disable a lot for a long time.  My plans are to head to a relative's house, who lives outside of the "disaster zone".  Their home, however, is 2 1/2-3 hours away.  The roads to get there are a mix of urban, suburban, and rural areas.  Ideally we would take a car or truck, but if traffic gets too congested, we get our packs on and start walking.  The distance is approximately 80 miles from my house to the "BOL".  I think I've got half of a good kit done:
> 
> As far as water goes, I've got an aluminum water bottle and some USGI 1 quart canteens.    
> 
> For shelter, all I've got is a Red Cross rescue blanket, an emergency blanket ($1 variety), and a hardware store tarp.  If it was too cold, I might take a USGI blanket.  
> 
> If something occurred right now, all I'd have for food is a couple cans of soup from the pantry (exactly why I'm asking for help).
> 
> I've got some Buck knives, a fire kit, first aid kit, some simple tools, cordage, Maglites, compass (no map though), and a few other odds and ends too.  
> ...


Another important point, in addition to those already made.......

Do not confuse a BOB for disaster planning.  The BOB is only one, very small part of it.  For a weather related event such as a hurricane there is almost always (as there was for Sandy) ample time to gather up a lot of things and evacuate in a timely manner.

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## natertot

Zack, Trying out your gear and adding what you need, subtracting what you don't and replacing things with alternatives that work better for you is a constant and ongoing thing when it comes to these kind of preps. Once you have "arrived" with it, then you will need to regularly check it out to make sure the equipment is in good order and that items haven't expired. Things like meds and food especially for expiration dates. Want to make sure things that are made out of metal aren't rusted. Cloth and line isn't moldy or mildewy. Lighters, matches, fuels etc are still in operating order. You get the idea at this point.

Crash is right about formal evacuations. There is usually 24-72 hours to get out of the area before disaster strikes. You have your basic bag which will take care of you, but use a little time to add to it. More food, a few larger fist aid items, more blankets and pillows, a few more firearms and more ammo, perhaps some sentimental items or heirlooms as well. You got the vehicle(s), pack it (them) with as much as you can. Stop by the gas station and top off, fill up a few 5gal gas cans too. Stop at the bank at take a few thousand dollars with you too. Why stay under a tarp when you can drive 400-500 miles and stay at a nice hotel and enjoy that continental breakfast? Not sure of your family situation. I have a wife, two kids, and a dog. If I have to beat feet from home, things are pretty bad and I have a lot of things to contend with. 

That is why I live where I do. I am outside of tornado alley, although one or two pop up on occasion without too much damages. I am beyond the reach of hurricanes and just get the after effects. Worse thing that has brought on so far was about a week without electricity. There aren't really earthquakes, although we had one that could be felt about three years ago but no damage occurred. My biggest concerns are loss of utilities and civil unrest. Anything beyond that, I will pack up the cars with what is needed, head to family outside the zone, and let insurance pay the rest. That leads to the most overlooked prep of all. Finances. But that is a topic for another thread. Maybe even another forum.....

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## ElevenBravo

Taurus #65 from grabagun is less than $400, 357 is still top dog for personal protection and self defense esp. in this price range.

50 rnds of ammo is kinda heavy, but I wouldnt want to carry less.  158 gn FMJ should do well for most anything, SJHP would be better but stay with 158 gn.

A decent knife (Mora?) and something to cut fire wood (pocket saw?).


In the military, we stayed in the wood for 3 weeks at a time... but resupply trains always ran.  So expecting to pack in a weeks worth of supplies and still be light  weight is silly.  2 weeks is gonna be a ball buster.  3 daze is still a bit heavy, but workable and allows you to move pretty decent.

Compass, map, pen light, spare AA batteries, the list can get long in the tooth but what are you willing to go without?

My backpacking camping bag, even for one overnight, is HEAVY.  

EB

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## Zack

> Zack, Trying out your gear and adding what you need, subtracting what you don't and replacing things with alternatives that work better for you is a constant and ongoing thing when it comes to these kind of preps. Once you have "arrived" with it, then you will need to regularly check it out to make sure the equipment is in good order and that items haven't expired. Things like meds and food especially for expiration dates. Want to make sure things that are made out of metal aren't rusted. Cloth and line isn't moldy or mildewy. Lighters, matches, fuels etc are still in operating order. You get the idea at this point.
> 
> Crash is right about formal evacuations. There is usually 24-72 hours to get out of the area before disaster strikes. You have your basic bag which will take care of you, but use a little time to add to it. More food, a few larger fist aid items, more blankets and pillows, a few more firearms and more ammo, perhaps some sentimental items or heirlooms as well. You got the vehicle(s), pack it (them) with as much as you can. Stop by the gas station and top off, fill up a few 5gal gas cans too. Stop at the bank at take a few thousand dollars with you too. Why stay under a tarp when you can drive 400-500 miles and stay at a nice hotel and enjoy that continental breakfast? Not sure of your family situation. I have a wife, two kids, and a dog. If I have to beat feet from home, things are pretty bad and I have a lot of things to contend with. 
> 
> That is why I live where I do. I am outside of tornado alley, although one or two pop up on occasion without too much damages. I am beyond the reach of hurricanes and just get the after effects. Worse thing that has brought on so far was about a week without electricity. There aren't really earthquakes, although we had one that could be felt about three years ago but no damage occurred. My biggest concerns are loss of utilities and civil unrest. Anything beyond that, I will pack up the cars with what is needed, head to family outside the zone, and let insurance pay the rest. That leads to the most overlooked prep of all. Finances. But that is a topic for another thread. Maybe even another forum.....


That is a good point.  Rick brought it up too.   But a hurricane is just the most evident threat around here.  I live in suburban area, but I'm 40 miles or so from a big city, and about 100 miles from Philadelphia, PA.  Terrorism, civil unrest, and the loss of utilities are all big threats as well.  I suppose that I just used the storm as an example, but I really want this bag as a general purpose "bug out bag", a kit that I have ready to go for anything and everything that would force me to leave my home.  Any opinions?

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## natertot

> My backpacking camping bag, even for one overnight, is HEAVY.  
> 
> EB


I am not sure how you do your bag, but the only difference in my bag for one night vs three nights is just a little more food. Therefore the weight difference is no more than 3-5lbs. Still need all the essentials regardless of time.

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## natertot

> That is a good point.  Rick brought it up too.   But a hurricane is just the most evident threat around here.  I live in suburban area, but I'm 40 miles or so from a big city, and about 100 miles from Philadelphia, PA.  Terrorism, civil unrest, and the loss of utilities are all big threats as well.  I suppose that I just used the storm as an example, but I really want this bag as a general purpose "bug out bag", a kit that I have ready to go for anything and everything that would force me to leave my home.  Any opinions?


I am not sure of your situation so it is hard for me to give more info. Do you have a vehicle? If so, do you have one or multiple? Are they cars, trucks, minivans? Are you taking others with you? Wife? Kids? Girlfriend? Pets? All this is needed to further guide you. All I can do is tell you what I find works for me.

I drive a smaller four door car. I keep my bag (I call it the get home bag since my concern is getting home. I live fairly well outside the danger zone of civil unrest.) in the trunk of my car. If I am on my way home and I have to desert the car, I grab the bag and go. Also in the trunk, I keep some basic tools in hopes I don't have to abandon the car over something silly like a flat tire or a dead battery. This also includes a salt/sand mix for the winter and I always have a small spade shovel too. I also have a larger 20mm ammo can in the trunk that contains much more food and a fairly equipped first aid kit. I used to keep a few firearms in the trunk with ammo until the canoe incident. I also have a tent, a couple small sleeping bags, wool blankets, clothes, a little cash, and a 2.5 gallon gas can with fresh fuel. I drive this car by myself (it is a second vehicle) 95 percent of the time. In the off chance things go south and I do have someone with me, I have an empty pack that I can toss them and load up on extra stuff from the trunk really quick before heading out.

Like I said, this is all about getting home for me. My house is located in a safe area outside of the danger zones and it is about getting home for me.

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## ElevenBravo

I agree Nator, once you get the core, it should last longer than 3 daze, just add more food.  Cliff bars and Mountain House are usually my picks for food on the move.  MREs are a good option too, but I dont like the temp shift in a vehicle, it will affect the shelf life, esp in the hot summer.

EB

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## natertot

Ditto EB. I continuously eat the stuff from the trunk. I work night shift and do casual hikes, fishing and hunting. Those activities tend to lead to the eating of the trunk food and having to resupply. Never had anything bad yet. In the trunk I keep more comfort food items too. Crackers, Vienna sausage, spam, small jar of peanut butter and more. These are heavier and more fragile for packing, but they store well so they end up in the giant ammo can.

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## LowKey

A good idea to prep for a leave-the-house bugout with notice, is to have your important papers filed in a binder and put in a waterproof case, to take with you. And make sure you have copies in a secure location. A safe deposit box at a bank on high ground works. Or it could be a lock box you keep at your relatives' house. Insurance policies are especially handy if you expect your house or property to take a hit. Your deed, any ID like passports, social security cards, a listing of bank accounts, a DVD or thumb drive photo record of all your pricey possessions, and any medical records you think necessary. Have some way to secure it. Not recommended for going to a shelter IMO unless you are careful to keep a guard on your space.

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## cbr6fs

Have you got a mountain bike?

With a bit of training you should be able to cover 80 miles fairly easily in one day on a bike.

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## Tokwan

I have two a Giant and a Haro. Yep..a MTB can cover terrains and still enable you to move if there is no fuel. 
BTW cbg^fs, your nickname sounds like you are a biker. Do you ride CBRs?

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## Zack

> Have you got a mountain bike?
> 
> With a bit of training you should be able to cover 80 miles fairly easily in one day on a bike.


Hmm...  Yes, I do have a mountain bike, but I've never ridden it with a pack on.  I'll have to try it.  Thanks for the responses  everybody, please keep them coming.  Merry Christmas!

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## Zack

> I am not sure of your situation so it is hard for me to give more info. Do you have a vehicle? If so, do you have one or multiple? Are they cars, trucks, minivans? Are you taking others with you? Wife? Kids? Girlfriend? Pets? All this is needed to further guide you. All I can do is tell you what I find works for me.
> 
> I drive a smaller four door car. I keep my bag (I call it the get home bag since my concern is getting home. I live fairly well outside the danger zone of civil unrest.) in the trunk of my car. If I am on my way home and I have to desert the car, I grab the bag and go. Also in the trunk, I keep some basic tools in hopes I don't have to abandon the car over something silly like a flat tire or a dead battery. This also includes a salt/sand mix for the winter and I always have a small spade shovel too. I also have a larger 20mm ammo can in the trunk that contains much more food and a fairly equipped first aid kit. I used to keep a few firearms in the trunk with ammo until the canoe incident. I also have a tent, a couple small sleeping bags, wool blankets, clothes, a little cash, and a 2.5 gallon gas can with fresh fuel. I drive this car by myself (it is a second vehicle) 95 percent of the time. In the off chance things go south and I do have someone with me, I have an empty pack that I can toss them and load up on extra stuff from the trunk really quick before heading out.
> 
> Like I said, this is all about getting home for me. My house is located in a safe area outside of the danger zones and it is about getting home for me.


I appreciate the ideas and I'll really put some serious thought into them.  I know it's overkill, especially since 99.9% I'm 1 1/2 miles from my home, but I keep a "GHB" in my car.  It's mostly for a situation where I was stranded for a few hours to an overnight (almost like the snowstorm I pushed through in the winter of 2012) and I had to provide for myself for a semi-extended period of time.  

Inside it I have a Mora, a box of matches (250 pack), wool blanket, emergency blanket, tarp, water bottle (aluminum), some pens and pencils, rope, one dehydrated meal (I won it at a gun show), and some other smaller things. 

The kit I am building out of the ALICE pack, however, I want to be much more extensive.  The one above is designed for a maximum of 36 hours, but I want something that will last me 72+ hours.  If I really had to hike 80 miles, I think that I could do it in 72 hours, but if weather conditions like massive flooding or extensive amounts of debris all over, my travel time may be slowed to 96 hours or more!  Thus, I would like a bag that would allow me the ability to provide for myself over a period of time that could last up to five days.  Even if I wasn't forced to hike the full 80 miles, I still want the same type kit, that way I would be covered if any other unexpected situation were to present itself.  Does that help?

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## Tokwan

On a MTB, you don't need a big back pack, just one of the biggest model of CamelBak will do, or fit your MTB with a pannier system.
MTB is a great way to go as its very very versatile, not much to repair, no fuel, easy to hide, no barriers, you can even throw one above a wall to go go over it.

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## natertot

The Bike is a good suggestion. 

Zack, it sounds like you are off to a good start and you are getting a feel for what you need to do for yourself. I know you said that you are doing an overnighter soon with the pack and that will help you out a lot. If you ever get a full weekend, try covering some of your planned routes as well. That will tell you things like how your pack holds up and together, your physical level with it, whether the route is feasible on foot and more.

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## Tokwan

Good advice that is...right on Bro!

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## cbr6fs

> I have two a Giant and a Haro. Yep..a MTB can cover terrains and still enable you to move if there is no fuel. 
> BTW cbg^fs, your nickname sounds like you are a biker. Do you ride CBRs?


Yep i have a 2001 F sport  :Thumbup: 




> Hmm...  Yes, I do have a mountain bike, but I've never ridden it with a pack on.  I'll have to try it.  Thanks for the responses  everybody, please keep them coming.  Merry Christmas!


If your route involves mainly road riding then trying to strap your kit onto the bike will save you a LOT of back ache.

If you are likely to be taking short cuts off-road then it's a bit of a balancing act between how much kit you have on the bike and on you.

Hiking 80 miles in 4 days is doable, that's around 20 miles a day average.
Speaking as someone that does several multi-day hiking and a couple of multi-day biking trips a year though you really want to dial in your kit to get it as light as possible.

For me personally i find that if i start going much over 20kg then it really starts to impact my daily mileage and how i feel at the end of the day.



Couple of things i would suggest adding to your kit
1/ A sleeping mat.
When messing about in the woods you can make a fairly comfortable and fairly well insulated bed, after hiking 20 miles though the last thing you are going to want to do is mess about like that.
You are going to want to slap a shelter up within mins, get some food inside you and hit the sack.

The foam type mats are cheap and reliable (i.e. they don't puncture), but they don't pack down as small as the inflatable ones and although comfort is relative for me they are not very comfortable.
Some may snigger at this, but again if your in a stressful situation and you're trying to cover as much ground as you can then getting a good nights sleep really cannot be underestimated.

2/ Water
Covering 20 miles a day hiking you are going to need at least 2 litres of fluids in you, and that's not including any fluid you need to cook your food, wash etc.
Again it would be easy to snigger and say "i'll just drink whatever i find" thing is though you are likely to be moving through populated lowland areas, the is a significant risk from Cyst's and bacteria.
Speaking as someone that's been ill from drinking some bad water i can state without any doubt the LAST thing you want in a stressful situation is to pick up a stomach bug.
At best it'll lay you up in camp for a few days at worst you'll be very very ill.

It's not like you are going to get ill every time you drink, but like wearing a seatbelt when you drive there is a risk and a few very very small, simple precautions can remove those risks.

There is a good write up here on the risks and prevention
http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drin...treatment.html

Very basically in there are 3 treatments
Boil - takes time and fuel and you have to wait for the water to cool boil, but pretty much kills anything apart from chemical pollution 

Chemical treatment - Again takes time and has a bit of a after taste, but it will kill everything apart from chemical type pollution 

Filter - Depends on the filter, most on the market will filter out cysts and bacteria which would be the biggest worry in the US, some will filter out virus but they tend to be slower and more expensive

One last thing on water, even if you have the best filter available it still isn't going to filter out heavy metals, and chemical pollution from say farm water run off, so in low land areas especially highly populated areas you have to be really really really careful about from where you take you water, a filter isn't a "fix all" solution you still need to use common sense.

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## Zack

> Yep i have a 2001 F sport 
> 
> 
> 
> If your route involves mainly road riding then trying to strap your kit onto the bike will save you a LOT of back ache.
> 
> If you are likely to be taking short cuts off-road then it's a bit of a balancing act between how much kit you have on the bike and on you.
> 
> Hiking 80 miles in 4 days is doable, that's around 20 miles a day average.
> ...


I didn't think about the sleeping pad.  The water, however, I did.  In my "BOV" I keep a case of water and I keep an stainless steel water bottle cup in my "BOB".  That way, I can boil anything I find.  Also, I need another bottle of water purification tablets (the one I bought found its way to my GHB), and I'm looking at a water filter.  By the way, if anybody's interested , I'll post a full kit rundown later on today.  The overnight I mentioned is taking place tonight, so I need to go through my kit anyway.

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## cbr6fs

> I didn't think about the sleeping pad.  The water, however, I did.  In my "BOV" I keep a case of water and I keep an stainless steel water bottle cup in my "BOB".  That way, I can boil anything I find.  Also, I need another bottle of water purification tablets (the one I bought found its way to my GHB), and I'm looking at a water filter.  By the way, if anybody's interested , I'll post a full kit rundown later on today.  The overnight I mentioned is taking place tonight, so I need to go through my kit anyway.


Nice one.

Carrying water is literally a pain, i've done trips here in Greece where there have been no guaranteed water source for 5 days, that's meant carrying every drop of water the the dog and i consume and use for 5 days, really not pleasant at all.

For filters take a look at the Sawyer Mini filter, doesn't filter out viruses but they shouldn't be much of a concern to you.
If they are then they do a kit called the "Point ZeroTWO" that filters out viruses.
You still need to be careful of heavy metals, pesticides and the like though, some activated charcoal filters will help with some heavy metals and chemical pollution, but there is no one fix for all solution you just have to use some common sense on where you get your water from.

What are you using to boil the water?
If it's a fire then it might be difficult finding dry fuel during or the run up to a hurricane.
If you're stealth camping then a fire and smoke might be a concern as well, so it might be worth thinking about taking a stove of some sort of either of these are a worry.

Water purification tablets work, but depending on the type used it can take anywhere from 30 mins to 4 hours for the them to work effectively.
It's also worth using a bandanna or the like to pre-filter the water, as those nasties are sneaky buggers and can hide inside larger particles offering them some protection from both chemicals and boiling (to and extent).

For me personally living in Greece, my biggest concern is earthquakes.
If the big one hits then i have my rucksack which is basically my hiking pack almost ready to go, only real differences are:
If any of the family is on prescription medicine, then i have some inside. 
I also have a small waterproof bag pencil case sort of size in which i have copies of important documents and a digital back up on s SSD hard disc of everything i think is important to me (family pics, scans of important documents etc), it's also password encrypted in case it falls into anyone else's hands.
I say almost ready to go because i use a down sleeping bag and a down jacket, these do not like to be compressed over long periods of time, so i'll need 30 seconds or so to cram these into their stuff sacks.

----------


## Tokwan

Great info coming your way Zack....hope you are absorbing them well.

----------


## Zack

> Nice one.
> 
> Carrying water is literally a pain, i've done trips here in Greece where there have been no guaranteed water source for 5 days, that's meant carrying every drop of water the the dog and i consume and use for 5 days, really not pleasant at all.
> 
> For filters take a look at the Sawyer Mini filter, doesn't filter out viruses but they shouldn't be much of a concern to you.
> If they are then they do a kit called the "Point ZeroTWO" that filters out viruses.
> You still need to be careful of heavy metals, pesticides and the like though, some activated charcoal filters will help with some heavy metals and chemical pollution, but there is no one fix for all solution you just have to use some common sense on where you get your water from.
> 
> What are you using to boil the water?
> ...


Thanks for the compliment.  To boil my water, Plan A is to have a fire, but like you said, dry fuel may not be in surplus.  In case that happens, I've got an Esbit stove, that way I can boil water quickly and relatively secretly.

----------


## kyratshooter

Looking at the information provided I feel there is a serious matter being overlooked that makes the "BOB" pale in comparison.

Zack lives in Delaware, which is on a peninsula with only a 12 mile wide neck bottling the inhabitants and channelizing their escape straight into the major urban area while crossing the only single outlet.  Something like 2 million people will be crammed into that 12 mile area and its limited accesses, clogging the infrastructure and choking all movement.

In this case I think that last minute emergency "bugging out" is a "last worst option".   

A Delaware "bug out" should be considered only if there is plenty of time before the incident for moving all the necessary equipment and provisions to a well established BOL off and away from the Delmarva peninsula.  That makes a BOB redundant be it a storm or any other disaster.

Of course there will be the "better to have it and not need" and "anything is better than nothing" it reasoning. 

However: 

If you are in Delaware and grabbing a BOB as your last hope, buddy you're screwed!

----------


## hunter63

> ......................
> For me personally living in Greece, my biggest concern is earthquakes.
> If the big one hits then i have my rucksack which is basically my hiking pack almost ready to go, only real differences are:
> If any of the family is on prescription medicine, then i have some inside. 
> I also have a small waterproof bag pencil case sort of size in which i have copies of important documents and a digital back up on s SSD hard disc of everything i think is important to me (family pics, scans of important documents etc), it's also password encrypted in case it falls into anyone else's hands.
> I say almost ready to go because i use a down sleeping bag and a down jacket, these do not like to be compressed over long periods of time, so i'll need 30 seconds or so to cram these into their stuff sacks.


Good point.
The importance of designing your bag to fit your biggest threat is a very important part of the picture.

Just saying "Hey I need a BOB" needs to be changed to "Hey I need a BOB for ...(fill in your threat)"

----------


## cbr6fs

> Thanks for the compliment.  To boil my water, Plan A is to have a fire, but like you said, dry fuel may not be in surplus.  In case that happens, I've got an Esbit stove, that way I can boil water quickly and relatively secretly.


Looks like you're pretty much sorted then  :Thumbup1: 

With regards to kyratshooter's comment would a inflatable canoe be an option or would the tides/winds likely be too strong?


Not sure how good the infrastructure is over there, but when we had bad floods in the UK a couple of years ago the local authorities opened up schools and government buildings for people to shelter in (obviously the ones on higher ground).

Over the long tern food and drinks were provided as well.

If something like that is likely, then still a lot of your kit will be useful.
If you have a sleep mat then that would enable you to get out of the often noisy room/hall that's converted into a bunk, having a stove would enable you to have a coffee or tea when you felt like it rather than waiting for the kitchen to open. 

So even if you are stuck i still think if a natural disaster is likely then it's a wise precaution to have a few things in a bag ready to go.
If you go camping you'll have all the kit anyways, so the only difference is that it'll be all in one place rather than spread around the house and garage.

As i said with my down kit, only thing to be careful about is any items that offer insulation, be it down or artificial, as neither respond well to being compressed for long periods of time.

----------


## cbr6fs

> Good point.
> The importance of designing your bag to fit your biggest threat is a very important part of the picture.
> 
> Just saying "Hey I need a BOB" needs to be changed to "Hey I need a BOB for ...(fill in your threat)"


Even then i'd go so far to say that a BOB is only a small part of being prepared.

As i say here in Athens earthquakes are the biggest threat, we're on the top of a hill so flooding isn't really a worry, out apartments are reinforced concrete so strong winds aren't a worry (we don't get hurricanes or tornado's here).

So as a precaution we have whistles in every room in the house, torches placed in easy access in all rooms and everyone has at least a couple of whistles with them (i stuff them in the kids rucksacks and the like).
We have a plan to stand by the front door during a earthquake.
Reason being that it's next to the lift shaft and the front door is reinforced so it should be the strongest point.

The neighbours i'm friendly with all know we'll be standing by the lift shaft, our family and friends all know we'll be standing by the lift shaft.
So at best any SAR's should be able to find us quicker, at worse it'll save SAR a LOT of time and effort in finding our bodies so they can move on to somewhere else and hopefully save them.

We have plenty of water stored as if it's likely even a moderate earthquake will disrupt the water supply, plus i know a natural well within 20 mins walking distance that i can filter.

There are many more smaller things like food etc that i've planed for but i don't want to hi-jack the thread.

But hopefully the example will show that having a bag packed is only a small part in getting you and your family prepared for a likely natural disaster.

----------


## Zack

> Good point.
> The importance of designing your bag to fit your biggest threat is a very important part of the picture.
> 
> Just saying "Hey I need a BOB" needs to be changed to "Hey I need a BOB for ...(fill in your threat)"


Alright.  I suppose that a hurricane is the most dangerous thing around here, so would a "shelter in place" approach be better than a bug out bag?

----------


## Zack

> Looking at the information provided I feel there is a serious matter being overlooked that makes the "BOB" pale in comparison.
> 
> Zack lives in Delaware, which is on a peninsula with only a 12 mile wide neck bottling the inhabitants and channelizing their escape straight into the major urban area while crossing the only single outlet.  Something like 2 million people will be crammed into that 12 mile area and its limited accesses, clogging the infrastructure and choking all movement.
> 
> In this case I think that last minute emergency "bugging out" is a "last worst option".   
> 
> A Delaware "bug out" should be considered only if there is plenty of time before the incident for moving all the necessary equipment and provisions to a well established BOL off and away from the Delmarva peninsula.  That makes a BOB redundant be it a storm or any other disaster.
> 
> Of course there will be the "better to have it and not need" and "anything is better than nothing" it reasoning. 
> ...


You've done your research.  However, there are other means of evacuation.  In my case, my relative's house is in a location that is lucky enough to be away from the bottleneck.

----------


## hunter63

> Alright.  I suppose that a hurricane is the most dangerous thing around here, so would a "shelter in place" approach be better than a bug out bag?


That's entirely up to you.......
Point is that each scenario will present different challenges.....but the most likely should be addresses.

Too many movies romanize the "life on the road after TEOTWAWKI" and our desire to live off the land.

Not high on my list.

Hurricane may be BO to safe location for me a\nd mine.......not too likely here next to the Great Lakes.
My first concerns would be a kit with clothes, water, credit cards then the BOB.
Vehicle kept full of fuel at any time I feel is important.

----------


## Rick

Once you leave your home you are just one more refugee. There is nothing glamorous about that.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## kyratshooter

> Alright.  I suppose that a hurricane is the most dangerous thing around here, so would a "shelter in place" approach be better than a bug out bag?


Think about this Zack,

Hurricanes do not sneak up on you from out of nowhere.  They move all the way across the Atlantic from the African coast and the NWS even names them and tracks them for the entire journey.  Warnings are usually issued well in advance just so people cam plan a calm and safe  evacuation. 

If the NWS issues a warning for the Delmarva Peninsula and includes an evacuation warning then listen to them!

Do not grab the BOB and head for the woods.  The woods will be under water!

Do not shelter in place.  "The place" may be under water.

Go to the announced hurricane shelters or leave the peninsula for safer areas early enough to avoid the congestion and panic.  

I do not know how old you are but hurricanes Katrina and Sandy are not ancient history.  Both storms were tracked for weeks and predicted with accuracy.  Evacuation warnings were issued well ahead of both storms and the failure to heed those warnings cost many lives. 

If you are dealing with a chemical spill on rail or highway, a terrorist attack or other tragedy then a BOB is a useful item to have in the house or vehicle so that you will have needed items on hand while you shelter somewhere waiting to go home.

That somewhere should be an organized shelter, the home of a friend or family member, or a motel 50 miles away, and the most important thing in the BOB will be a high limit credit card.

This ROTTW stuff like Red Dawn and the Walking Dead scenarios are works of fiction.  Just remember that everyone in Red Dawn dies!

I know of only two or three times in history when the "bug out" to the wilderness has occurred and been successful.  I don't think, from your writings, that you are on the same performance level as Simon Kenton or Hugh Glass.

----------


## Batch

Kyrat, Erica and Danny survive in the original Red Dawn. Don't make me go get my AK out of the safe and hold it over my head while yelling Wolverines. Middle aged men don't look cool doing that and I could throw out my back or something.  :Wink:

----------


## cbr6fs

Don't know anything about Red Dawn, but i do know that even in an official shelter a BOB can make life a little more easy and comfortable.

A sleeping mat means you can bunk in a nice quiet area rather than in the communal bunk area
A stove means you can make a brew of warm up food instead of waiting for the kitchen to open or waiting in line.
A battery bank can mean you can talk to loved ones and listen to music rather than waiting for a spare power outlet to become available.

For me personally i would have to be on deaths door before i take any kind of charity or hand out, it's happened before and it's certainly a personality trait i need to work on, so if i was in a situation like that any way i can claw back some independence would be a massive moral boost to me.
That might be warming up my own food when i want it, or even something as simple as making myself a hot drink.

As i say i realise i'm not the norm and that's something i should work on, but i'm also sure i can't be alone in thinking and feeling like that.

So although i agree that BOB is often nothing more than a crutch for some weird unlikely event, i do honestly believe that having a few items handy to throw in a bag will be useful in most situations.
Imagine being stuck in one of these emergency centres for say 2 days, now imagine having a tarp that you could string up somewhere 50m away from the centre, it would feel like paradise on earth  :2:

----------


## hayshaker

zack as for pscking your ghb never carry canfood cause of the freeze-thaw cycle freezedri that,s it
always update your bag depending on season of year. and remember you have to hump this thing
that said don,t over pack. will post more later

----------


## Tokwan

Google up Flood in Malaysia, Some states in Malaysia, (about 5 states being: Kelantan, Trengganu , Pahang, Perak, Johore ) are facing the worst floods since 30 years. Almost 100 thousand people have been evacuated. This is happening as I am typing.

----------


## Rick

> imagine having a tarp that you could string up somewhere 50m away from the centre




It's usually those outlying stragglers that predators pick off. Just sayin'......

----------


## kyratshooter

cbr6sf you should pull the movie Red Dawn up on the internet and watch it since it is mandatory viewing for every "prepper".  Even if you are not a "taticool" person you should know the latest fads going among that group and the "Robin Hood" stereotype is one of the leading myths.

Fact is that Erica and Danny survived in the first movie because they escaped *to* civilization !!!

As for the contents of the BOB being useful in a shelter situation, that is probably true to a degree.  The real thing is that those contents do not have to be in a "mollie bag" an alice pack or a backpack of any kind at all.  They can just as well be in an "action packer", a gym bag or a nice piece of luggage with little wheels on it for pull behind use.

And Rick is dead right.  Not only will you make yourself a target under a tarp 50m from the shelter, you will probably not be allowed to camp there for fear of you becoming a menace yourself.  

I always take it for granted that the person considering life under a tarp is not equipped with the standard wife and 2.5 children. I can not imagine anyone I have ever been married too sitting under a tarp in a hurricane looking at a dry shelter complete with food, showers and a working bathroom without the words "F#%^ this I'm going in there!" being the final words of the conversation no matter what trinkets you have in the BOB.

----------


## Zack

> Think about this Zack,
> 
> Hurricanes do not sneak up on you from out of nowhere.  They move all the way across the Atlantic from the African coast and the NWS even names them and tracks them for the entire journey.  Warnings are usually issued well in advance just so people cam plan a calm and safe  evacuation. 
> 
> If the NWS issues a warning for the Delmarva Peninsula and includes an evacuation warning then listen to them!
> 
> Do not grab the BOB and head for the woods.  The woods will be under water!
> 
> Do not shelter in place.  "The place" may be under water.
> ...


That's true.  We never got hit really bad during Hurricanes Sandy or Irene, but a Bradford Pear did fall away from my home, but if the chain link fence it fell on was a car or bedroom, the only "bugging out" we'd be doing is straight to the emergency room.  The fact that we can predict the storm is definitely beneficial, that way I've got time to travel to my relative's home.  However, something could prohibit my escape by car.  In that situation, I'd prefer to have a BOB so that I could find shelter outside of the disaster zone, even if means I have to hike or bike there.

----------


## Zack

I just got back from my overnight that I mentioned above.  It was not very enjoyable, but I learned a couple things. First of all, I need a way to warm up a shelter.  My 4x6 tarp, which was $0.99, was not warm enough.  I woke up shivering multiple times.  How do you keep your primitive shelters warm?  I know fire is good, but in the site I was at, I couldn't put a fire right up by my shelter.  Any advice?

Next, I realized that I should take a step up from my wool blanket.  Are there any 0 degree bags that you can recommend?  

Also, what tablets do you recommend for an Esbit stove?

----------


## Zack

From what I gather here, I suppose that I don't really need a true BOB, but instead some of the amenities that I use often at home.  Is that the general consensus?  If so, should I just scrap the BOB idea in the first place and just start from scratch?

----------


## Rick

Since Esbit fuel and the stove were sort of designed to work together I guess I would suggest Esbit fuel tablets. The nice part about them is you can snuff them out when you are done cooking. You can also scrape them with a knife to create a fire starter if you need a larger fire.

Being in a group can be an effective form a camouflage and safety. That's the very reason prey animals and fish herd and school together.

----------


## natertot

Hey Zach, here is a thread that I am doing on Esbit stoves and using different fuels. It may help you.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...Stove-and-Fuel

Also for warmth this time of year I look at the sleep system and not the shelter itself. The shelter is to solely block wind, rain and other elements. The sleep system keep you warm. I use a milsurp bag that is rated to 30* and keeps warm even when wet and then line the inside with a wool blanket. I also keep layers on my body. Depending on temps it can be as much as long johns, sweats, jeans, then a set of Carhardt overalls. If I really need to, I will open up some hand warmers and throw them throughout the sleeping bag or place them within certain areas of my clothing. 

Kyrat, you are spot on about having family under a tarp. It ain't gonna happen. For us, it would be get out of the area and check in at a nice hotel. Per the little tot's, it has to have a swimming pool.......

----------


## hunter63

Experience is a great teacher, as you just found out

What ever you do and come up with.....keep trying it out till it work, you are comfortable....and you can carry it if you have to.....some how.

My vehicles carry a lot of gear and supplies.....but are broken down into carry able bag/boxes....if necessary.

----------


## Zack

> Experience is a great teacher, as you just found out
> 
> What ever you do and come up with.....keep trying it out till it work, you are comfortable....and you can carry it if you have to.....some how.
> 
> My vehicles carry a lot of gear and supplies.....but are broken down into carry able bag/boxes....if necessary.


I've trimmed down my kit significantly, but I'm still comfortable with what's in it.

----------


## kyratshooter

> I've trimmed down my kit significantly, but I'm still comfortable with what's in it.



Trimming down to nothing is not the goal.  That is why most of us consider the vehicle our basic gear carrier.  There may be units inside that vehicle that we can roll or carry with us if we must abandon the vehicle, but we realize that our comfort and survival capabilities are being trimmed along with the gear.

There is a big difference between enduring a miserable over night trip and realizing that you are going to face the same thing tomorrow night, and the night after, and it will go on forever.

For a cold weather bag I would check out any of the military issue units.  I keep one of the old down insulated mummy bags which is probably older than many of the folks on this forum.  I hate it, and I can not sleep in it, but it will keep me warm and alive when the temps fall below zero.  8 hours of blissful rest is not a survival requirement.

And kudos on making an overnight trip in early winter.  Many would not attempt it and never know the real limitations of their gear.

----------


## Zack

> Trimming down to nothing is not the goal.  That is why most of us consider the vehicle our basic gear carrier.  There may be units inside that vehicle that we can roll or carry with us if we must abandon the vehicle, but we realize that our comfort and survival capabilities are being trimmed along with the gear.
> 
> There is a big difference between enduring a miserable over night trip and realizing that you are going to face the same thing tomorrow night, and the night after, and it will go on forever.
> 
> For a cold weather bag I would check out any of the military issue units.  I keep one of the old down insulated mummy bags which is probably older than many of the folks on this forum.  I hate it, and I can not sleep in it, but it will keep me warm and alive when the temps fall below zero.  8 hours of blissful rest is not a survival requirement.
> 
> And kudos on making an overnight trip in early winter.  Many would not attempt it and never know the real limitations of their gear.


Thanks for the compliment.  By trimming my kit down, I didn't mean chucking useful items in order to save weight, but just stepping back, looking at the kit's contents, and removing anything that I could do without in the short term.  Was there a real need for 200' of paracord?  What about a enormous fire kit?  A cast-iron frying pan?  It was this type of gear that got removed/replaced.   I now have 100' of paracord, a fire kit that is about half the size of my old one (still effective: Lighters, matches, fire starter, dryer lint, wetfire cubes), and a USGI mess kit, with the attached frying pan.  I think I've got most of my bases covered.  If anybody wants a full rundown if the contents, just ask.

----------


## natertot

Yeah, if you could give us a full run down and pictures of the gear, it would help us help you. We could offer other alternatives, mention what you could do without, and things that might be beneficial to add. Otherwise, we are throwing darts while blindfolded.

----------


## Zack

My pack is a medium ALICE pack in woodland camo with the straps only, no frame.  I'll try to get photos up.

In the admin pocket, I have a pen and pencil, compass, and I'm going to get a couple maps.  Do you have any recommendations of where to get maps?  AAA?  Google?

In the left pocket, I keep a 1Q Nalgene bottle with a cup on the bottom.

In the center pocket I have a fire kit, fixed blade, trowel, and other minor things.

On the right, I have a USGI mess kit with Esbit stove, matches, tinder, CRKT Eat'n Tool, and some other little eating gadgets.  Fuel tablets will be in there soon.

In the main pocket, I have a wool blanket, hygiene kit, and 50' of paracord.  Food is on its way.  Recommendations on what I should get?

In the radio pouch, I have shelter gear.  Stakes, ridgeline, tie-down lines, emergency blankets, and a tarp.  I hope to get a CamelBak in this pocket one day.

This is all from memory, but I'll add to it if I find anything else.  Are there any opinions?

----------


## Rick

I like Google Earth for maps. You can store them in a ziplock bag. You can print out what you want at what elevation you want it. Don't forget railroad routes and power line routes as well. You can generally do a google search for those. Here's a list for topo maps for Delaware. 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...s+for+delaware

Rand McNally also makes some very nice laminated regional highway maps. I have one for my state, my region, an Indiana road atlas as well as a US road atlas in both vehicles. 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...s+for+delaware

I carry a first aid kit with me where ever I go.

----------


## Zack

> I like Google Earth for maps. You can store them in a ziplock bag. You can print out what you want at what elevation you want it. Don't forget railroad routes and power line routes as well. You can generally do a google search for those. Here's a list for topo maps for Delaware. 
> 
> https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...s+for+delaware
> 
> Rand McNally also makes some very nice laminated regional highway maps. I have one for my state, my region, an Indiana road atlas as well as a US road atlas in both vehicles. 
> 
> https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...s+for+delaware
> 
> I carry a first aid kit with me where ever I go.



I have a general FAK that goes with me anytime I go outside.  I'm working on one that stays in the pack 100% of the time though.  Also, I forgot to add that I carry a mini Maglite in the pack too.  Thanks for the links.

----------


## natertot

I am not sure how your area does things, but in my neck of the woods the engineers office for each county has free county maps. I collected three sets of my county and every county that surrounds me. I added this to a Rand McNally U.S. Atlas. I update the county maps whenever new editions come out and I find that the Atlas is good enough for five years intervals, although a new edition is released every year. 

Outside of that, it is GPS on the phone.

----------


## Zack

> I am not sure how your area does things, but in my neck of the woods the engineers office for each county has free county maps. I collected three sets of my county and every county that surrounds me. I added this to a Rand McNally U.S. Atlas. I update the county maps whenever new editions come out and I find that the Atlas is good enough for five years intervals, although a new edition is released every year. 
> 
> Outside of that, it is GPS on the phone.


I'll try to get some tomorrow.  Thanks for the advice.

----------


## pete lynch

Try here:
http://udspace.udel.edu/handle/19716/3389
I've downloaded a few.

----------


## Tokwan

i would pile up what I need, separate or classify them under certain group or bundle, get a bag that owuld fit, and maybe able to fit in something extra..like my Colt .45

----------


## cbr6fs

> It's usually those outlying stragglers that predators pick off. Just sayin'......[/COLOR]


I think that's location specific, here in Greece and the UK (where i'm from) there are only a few major cities where that would be even a concern never mind a problem.

----------


## Rick

Sorry, but that's a little short sighted. When it comes to survival some people will do whatever they deem necessary. Greece has had its fair share of disasters, war and atrocities. The Turkish invasion of Cyprus was just 40 years ago. They still control part of the island today.

----------


## cbr6fs

> Sorry, but that's a little short sighted. When it comes to survival some people will do whatever they deem necessary. Greece has had its fair share of disasters, war and atrocities. The Turkish invasion of Cyprus was just 40 years ago. They still control part of the island today.


I think it's a bit of push to put a a invasion in the same context as as having a bit of a tarp up just off to one side of a government shelter after a natural disaster.

No doubt there are opportunists in every society around the world, if we look back at the bad earthquake here in Athens in 99 though there was no unrest or civil disturbance, everybody pulled together to help as much as they could.

Look at the bombings in London on 7/7, very very little opportunistic crime reported as generally people pulled together.

Then there is the Costa Concordia running aground, i'm 100% certain that people were clambering over anyone or anything else to get safe, but once on dry land at Isola del Giglio everyone pulled together, houses were opened up to shelter strangers, mobile phones were shared and people helped.

Even in New York after Hurricane Sandy people who had power were offering to charge other peoples phones, food/water was distributed and there were very few civil disturbances or opportunistic thieving.

If people are watching their loved ones starve to death then of course all bets are off, but if we look at many over natural disasters then there is far far far more good being done than bad.

Personally i wouldn't be concered about my family taking some quiet time under a tarp on the outside of a rescue centre over here in Athens or where i'm from in the UK

----------


## Rick

> Look at the bombings in London on 7/7, very very little opportunistic crime reported as generally people pulled together.




And you're talking about a very small scale problem of relatively short duration. The same with the Concordia. You're welcome to do whatever you feel comfortable with, however. It's your life.

----------


## crashdive123

If they'll loot and riot in Greece because of austerity, don't think for a minute that those same "entitled" individuals wouldn't take advantage of a tragedy.  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1021366

----------


## cbr6fs

> And you're talking about a very small scale problem of relatively short duration. The same with the Concordia. You're welcome to do whatever you feel comfortable with, however. It's your life. [/COLOR]


Fair enough, but the earthquake in Athens in 99 and hurricane Sandy in New York were certainly not problems of short duration.
Likewise the Earthquake a tsunami in Japan 2011.

All these disasters did more to pull people together than give criminals opportunities.
Sure there were some bad apples but the vast vast vast majority of people pulled together, there were very very few reports of opportunistic criminals hurting, killing or stealing from people during these events.

As i say i can understand your concern, but in my experience so far i think that the sort of social problems you were thinking about tend to bit restricted to certain areas.
Don't get me wrong, there are areas of London, Manchester, Edinburgh etc i would be very wary about walking through, never mind setting up a tarp, but still a tarp weighs next to nothing even IF the rescue centre you end up in is suspect, it would even make a good curtain inside the bunk hall to give the family a little privacy.
Or of course we could chose not to use it at all, for me though it's a nice option to have.

----------


## crashdive123

> .....snip.....
> All these disasters did more to pull people together than give criminals opportunities.
> Sure there were some bad apples but the vast vast vast majority of people pulled together, there were very very few reports of opportunistic criminals hurting, killing or stealing from people during these events....snip...


I believe that to be the case in most places that you see unrest after a disaster.  While generally small and localized, it does receive the most media attention.  The stories of good will and caring don't garner the ratings that the other stories do.

----------


## cbr6fs

> If they'll loot and riot in Greece because of austerity, don't think for a minute that those same "entitled" individuals wouldn't take advantage of a tragedy.  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1021366


Completely separate problem though.
Those were protests against the government, a very complex history and thinking behind that sort of behaviour.

Look back to the aftermath of the 1999 quake and there are very very very few reports of criminals taking advantage of the opportunity.

One other thing to consider.
If a evacuation is called it would be a criminal and his/her entire family at the centre, it would be extremely bad for a kid to embarrass his/her family by taking advantage of someone less fortunate.
It's also highly likely that anyone that heard or witnessed the encounter would come to help, again any possible crims know this.


By the by though, if you are to afraid to use the tarp outside as i said above you could even use it a curtain to provide a bit of privacy, or leave it in your bag and don't use, a decent rap takes up very little space and it can be very very light weight.
It gives you choices.

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## Zack

I've been looking through my camping gear, and I found an old sleeping bag that a relative gave to me.  I think that it will be a lot warmer that just the wool blanket.  Also, natertot, I appreciate your advice on the maps, I got a map of my county today, free of charge.  I'll continue to post on any alteration I make to the kit.

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## natertot

Awesome, Zack! I know thing vary state by state so I wasn't sure if the same thing was offered in your area. I like the free county maps myself. They are free, and very detailed. That is why I keep them for my county and all the counties that surround me.

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## cbr6fs

> I've been looking through my camping gear, and I found an old sleeping bag that a relative gave to me.  I think that it will be a lot warmer that just the wool blanket.  Also, natertot, I appreciate your advice on the maps, I got a map of my county today, free of charge.  I'll continue to post on any alteration I make to the kit.


Nice one.
Only thing to be wary about is that no insulation takes well to being compressed for long periods of time, so try and have it loose rather than compressed when in storage.

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## Zack

> Awesome, Zack! I know thing vary state by state so I wasn't sure if the same thing was offered in your area. I like the free county maps myself. They are free, and very detailed. That is why I keep them for my county and all the counties that surround me.


This one I really like because it's a bicycle map.  It's got all of the small streets around my town, and it's got major highways.  It says that some of them have bike routes running along them, so if I ended biking like Tokwan and the others said, I've got nice, easy, routes.  It's good to have for day trips with the family too.  I'll try to get to DNREC today so I can get some for other counties.

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## Rick

Hopefully, it will be a nice easy route. Just remember that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. 

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## Zack

> Hopefully, it will be a nice easy route. Just remember that no plan survives first contact with the enemy. 
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Yikes!  Good thing I've got a few alternate routes!

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## cbr6fs

Pahhhhhh not even obstacles when you've put some time on on your push bike





 :triage:

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## Rick

I could do that if I wanted to. Fortunately for me and my medical insurance provider I don't want to.

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## Zack

> Pahhhhhh not even obstacles when you've put some time on on your push bike


That guy is good, really good.

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## Zack

I just added a new piece to my fire kit!  2 Duraflame starter logs, cut into thirds, and placed in a Ziploc bag.  Now I can start a fire in very wet conditions, at least 6 fires, actually.

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## Tokwan

Great way of thinking......that what I expect.....be imaginative.

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## Zack

> Great way of thinking......that what I expect.....be imaginative.


Thanks.  We had a bonfire last night, to ring in the New Year.  I started it with all natural materials and lit it with, you guessed it, my ferro rod!  I tried other tinder, but I think jute twine fluff is the best for me.  It burns hot and quick, but as long as you toss some birch bark and pine needles on it quick enough, you can get some kindling going easily.  I got to test my char-tin out by making a little charcloth, which is nice to have for emergencies.  Overall, last night was extraordinarily productive.  Thanks for all of the advice!

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## Billy13426

Zack where did you get a map of the county i have been trying to find one but i have had no luck.

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## Rick

Check post 68. You can also pick up a state atlas.

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## Billy13426

what is post 68?

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## Zack

> Zack where did you get a map of the county i have been trying to find one but i have had no luck.


I got it at my local Dept. of Natural Resources.

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## crashdive123

> what is post 68?


Each post is numbered in the upper, right corner of the post.  Your post that I am quoting is number 94.  This one is number 96.

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