# Survival > Bushcraft Medicine >  What Medicines are a must?

## cubsfanrva

Hey everyone!

I have really gotten into watching the survival shows on TV and now that I have a 5 acre property to call my own, I am starting to create my own little survival kit together. I was wondering what other medicines are vital to a survival pack? 
**************************************
Your newbie survivalist enthusiast

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## welderguy

> Hey everyone!
> 
> I have really gotten into watching the survival shows on TV and now that I have a 5 acre property to call my own, I am starting to create my own little survival kit together. I was wondering what other medicines are vital to a survival pack? 
> ***********************************
> Your newbie survivalist enthusiast


 You do realize that most people here will see this as spam. Try an introduction first and leave the links out  of the post Ill bet money this gets edited by a mod or deleted. And I bet 20 bucks you don't make another post that is useful and don't contain a link

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## hunter63

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.......
Welderguy is correct.....Might want to take out the link.
The rules....

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ules-amp-Staff

Introductions
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions

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## cubsfanrva

[QUOTE=hunter63;433936]Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.......
Welderguy is correct.....Might want to take out the link.
The rules....

Two responses, but no one is going to answer? Not trying to spam by any means - I just know a lot of people go to EBAY and thought I could share where I found mine.

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## welderguy

It is actually a good topic, but to me it sounds like your wanting to do market research to see what you can sell fast and what people want. how about an intro!! and sounding less like a sales marketing pitch and more like someone who is truly a prepper.

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## hunter63

My meds come from my Dr. in 90 day supplies, (all sorts of old guy stuff)
I have in the past ordered BP meds off the web......but haven't for a long time.

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## crashdive123

Did you really think that that would fly?  You should at least have used a different email address when you registered.  Kind of a dead giveaway.

Spammer banned.

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## BENESSE

One would have to be truly insane to order meds from eBay, or consume meds not intended for humans.
They may look like the real thing, but you have NO WAY of knowing if they actually are. This is not a chance you want to take even if they're giving it away for free.

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## welderguy

> One would have to be truly insane to order meds from eBay, or consume meds not intended for humans.
> They may look like the real thing, but you have NO WAY of knowing if they actually are. This is not a chance you want to take even if they're giving it away for free.


 I have a friend that is a veterinarian, he showed me the chemical compound and the manufacturing info , they are exactly the same and from the same companies we use, I have used both Cipro and tetracycline with great results and no side effects.

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## crashdive123

This is why I left the thread up after banning the spammer.  I know people have differing views, but this is a good topic to discuss.

Getting meds from a vet is one thing - but Ebay....not a chance!

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## BENESSE

> I have a friend that is a veterinarian, he showed me the chemical compound and the manufacturing info , they are exactly the same and from the same companies we use, I have used both Cipro and tetracycline with great results and no side effects.


That's cool as long as you obtain those particular meds from a legitimate source. Otherwise, and esp. eBay, you have no idea where they're coming from or if they'd been cut with Carpet Fresh.

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## hunter63

I used to get then good stuff from Singapore.......Cheap too......
Now it cheaper from the local pharmacy....$5 buck deductible.

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## welderguy

The Company That the Vet gets his drugs from is the one I use, but the funny thing is that company also sells on ebay !!
And Hunter your correct going to the pharmacy is cheaper , but I can only get my Dr to write so many prescriptions every few months!! 

 so far in my home pharmacy I have
CIPRO
CLINDAMYCIN
CEPHALEXIN
PENICILLIN
AMOXICILLIN
LEVOFLOXACIN
METRONIDAZOLE
CLARITHROMYCIN 
DOXYCYCLINE

  there a Mix of Pet meds and regular scripts. There are more I would like to add but money wont allow for it at present time .

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## BENESSE

> The Company That the Vet gets his drugs from is the one I use, but the funny thing is that company also sells on ebay !!
> And Hunter your correct going to the pharmacy is cheaper , but I can only get my Dr to write so many prescriptions every few months!! 
> 
>  so far in my home pharmacy I have
> CIPRO
> CLINDAMYCIN
> CEPHALEXIN
> PENICILLIN
> AMOXICILLIN
> ...


Thing is, there's only so much you can hoard before the expiration date. Now, I know you can go past that, but it's questionable by how much before the efficacy gets seriously compromised. I suppose something is better than nothing...what we don't know is what the side effects might be of long expired meds.

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## hunter63

> The Company That the Vet gets his drugs from is the one I use, but the funny thing is that company also sells on ebay !!
> And Hunter your correct going to the pharmacy is cheaper , but I can only get my Dr to write so many prescriptions every few months!! 
> 
>  so far in my home pharmacy I have
> CIPRO
> CLINDAMYCIN
> CEPHALEXIN
> PENICILLIN
> AMOXICILLIN
> ...


So those are what you have,? or are you looking for more?
Recognize a couple of antibiotics DW is allergic to......so what are they all?
Yeah I suppose I could look them up.....but hey.

....and yeah, I used to able to get like a weeks worth or antibiotic, pain meds, for hunting out west....Not anymore.

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## welderguy

> Thing is, there's only so much you can hoard before the expiration date. Now, I know you can go past that, but it's questionable by how much before the efficacy gets seriously compromised. I suppose something is better than nothing...what we don't know is what the side effects might be of long expired meds.


 I read a report done on stored antibiotics, I cant remember where be on this forum!! that they did several tests on dated meds and found them to be intact up to 5 years past expiration ( by intact I mean no break down or toxicity). Yes there are some that do break down and some that are toxic I will search my files and see if I have that list of drugs tested.

 And rotating drugs isn't as easy as food stocks, I can eat food stocks I don't get sick a lot so that does raise an issue of rotating ???

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## welderguy

> So those are what you have,? or are you looking for more?
> Recognize a couple of antibiotics DW is allergic to......so what are they all?
> Yeah I suppose I could look them up.....but hey.
> 
> ....and yeah, I used to able to get like a weeks worth or antibiotic, pain meds, for hunting out west....Not anymore.


they are  antibiotics Hunter, I will add more later when I have more cash on hand to play with. I still get scripts for Pain pills from my Doctor once every 6 months, or so. he is understanding to the prepper community and once he knows your not a pill seeker he will hook you up.
I will look for a Link i have,  its a pretty good list of both OTC and script meds , there use and dosage pretty good info to have if you store a variety of meds.

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## natertot

Welder,

Many of those are antibiotics. Certain Antibiotics have to be used for certain bacteria and they have to be used in correct amounts for that bacteria. If you go too "light" on the antibiotics, the bacteria can build tolerances and immunities against them making you even more sick and making future meds less effective and requiring stronger meds. Just be careful playing doctor.

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## hunter63

...well, all I can say is a bottle of aspirin in the console FAK, was really ripe/strong/nasty/....and some of my Benadryl kinda melted down(DW bee sting emergency stuff)....Tape was also kinda funky with sticky stuff sticking out. 
Tossed them.......

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## welderguy

> Welder,
> 
> Many of those are antibiotics. Certain Antibiotics have to be used for certain bacteria and they have to be used in correct amounts for that bacteria. If you go too "light" on the antibiotics, the bacteria can build tolerances and immunities against them making you even more sick and making future meds less effective and requiring stronger meds. Just be careful playing doctor.


 They are all antibiotics!
  I have a list as I mentioned in my reply to hunter, that lays out the details of each antibiotic dosage how many per day etc etc , did you also know that some bacteria's such as MRSA require multiple antibiotics to get rid of it. So no I'm not playing doctor, Thanks for your concern tho Ill take that into advisement

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## welderguy

> ...well, all I can say is a bottle of aspirin in the console FAK, was really ripe/strong/nasty/....and some of my Benadryl kinda melted down(DW bee sting emergency stuff)....Tape was also kinda funky with sticky stuff sticking out. 
> Tossed them.......


 for longevity they need to be kept in a dark cool area. high temps freezing temps humidity all play parts in breaking down antibiotics ( or any meds) prematurely. some even need to be refrigerated Those I do not plan i stocking

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## hunter63

> for longevity they need to be kept in a dark cool area. high temps freezing temps humidity all play parts in breaking down antibiotics ( or any meds) prematurely. some even need to be refrigerated Those I do not plan i stocking



But if you don't have it when you need it...it don't do you no good.....Oh well.....I just keep checking and replacing.

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## natertot

> They are all antibiotics!
>   I have a list as I mentioned in my reply to hunter, that lays out the details of each antibiotic dosage how many per day etc etc , did you also know that some bacteria's such as MRSA require multiple antibiotics to get rid of it. So no I'm not playing doctor, Thanks for your concern tho Ill take that into advisement


All the ones I recognized I knew were antibiotics and didn't want to assume the rest. 
It is good you have that info and yes, I did know that about MRSA. I know many folk who think, "I have antibiotics, I'm good" but they don't know anything else. Not saying you were one of those. Just wanted to put out the info for all who read so they don't wind up screwing things up worse.

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## hunter63

> All the ones I recognized I knew were antibiotics and didn't want to assume the rest. 
> It is good you have that info and yes, I did know that about MRSA. I know many folk who think, "I have antibiotics, I'm good" but they don't know anything else. Not saying you were one of those. Just wanted to put out the info for all who read so they don't wind up screwing things up worse.


That's why I asked as well....DW is allergic to a lot of the 'sillens"  so I don't fool with them.

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## Rick

The Shelf Life Extension Program (SLEP) was established to reduce costs and make certain medications were available if needed. Here is a white paper from the FDA that lists 122 medications tested and the results. Please note, some DID fail. You'll need to scroll down to see all of the drugs. It's a technical paper but if you are interested in stockpiling drugs then worth your time to read through it. 

http://www.ofcaems.org/ds-Stability_Profiles.pdf

The actual DOD/FDA shelf life extension database requires a login and password. You must have a .gov or .mil email address. I'm posting it here for what it's worth. I know some of you are military or government so you might be able to gain access. You may receive a notice the sites security certificate can not be trusted but you can click through that. If you aren't interested or don't have one of the email extensions listed then the site won't provide you any information. 

https://www.shelflife.hq.dla.mil/fda_slep.aspx

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## oldsoldier

> I have a friend that is a veterinarian, he showed me the chemical compound and the manufacturing info , they are exactly the same and from the same companies we use, I have used both Cipro and tetracycline with great results and no side effects.


 _I agree with welder here. I did some checking with both our vet and family Dr. ( both are family friends) I keep fishmox on hand as it has the same ingredients as "human" antibiotics it's just 90% cheaper and 100% easier to get._

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## SHTFMIKE

> The Company That the Vet gets his drugs from is the one I use, but the funny thing is that company also sells on ebay !!
> And Hunter your correct going to the pharmacy is cheaper , but I can only get my Dr to write so many prescriptions every few months!! 
> 
>  so far in my home pharmacy I have
> CIPRO
> CLINDAMYCIN
> CEPHALEXIN
> PENICILLIN
> AMOXICILLIN
> ...





> I read a report done on stored antibiotics, I cant remember where be on this forum!! that they did several tests on dated meds and found them to be intact up to 5 years past expiration ( by intact I mean no break down or toxicity). Yes there are some that do break down and some that are toxic I will search my files and see if I have that list of drugs tested.
> 
>  And rotating drugs isn't as easy as food stocks, I can eat food stocks I don't get sick a lot so that does raise an issue of rotating ???


I store PENICILLIN, AMOXICILLIN and CIPROFLAXIN.
I get them from an online fish meds store.
They are identical to human antibiotics down to the markings on the pills. 
I read a report as well on the longetivity of antibiotics after their exp. date. If kept in a dark, cool place, they last years past their exp. date but can lose some of it's potency.
There was one antibiotic that can become toxic after the exp. date. I can't remember which one.
Maybe Tetracycline or Erythromycin.

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## BENESSE

Here's the thing about antibiotics. Unless you are _sure_ your ailment is bacterial and not viral, it's not smart to "mis- take" them. You can create more trouble than it's worth, and in a SHTF circumstances it's not a gamble you want to take.
Make extensive notes on how to diagnose various conditions that warrant taking the drugs you are hoarding and make sure you use prevention as the first line of defense.

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## Winnie

I take a different approach about antibiotics. I don't store them at all. I happen to believe in cleanliness and early intervention. Wounds would cleaned up and covered where necessary asap. Cold, flu, cough, treat the symptoms as early as poss with OTC meds and a small libation generally does the trick. I think there is too much reliance put on antibiotics in all it's forms and resistance is so easy to induced.
I do use antibiotic cream when the need calls for it, but it's not in my stores.

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## ace_maveric

If you guys want to simplify your med stock pile. All antibiotics are derived from 1 of these 4.  cyline, sulfur (sulfamide),  penicillin, steroid.  Pharmaceutical companies slightly change the formula only so a new drug can be patented then sold for big bucks.

Penicillan- ampicillian- amoxicillian- rivacillen- ext, all the same. effective on gram pos

Cycline, tetracycline- doxicillian- oxytetracycline- ext,  same.  effective on Gram neg and slightly gram Positive 

Sulfamide- bactrum BS, - all for Uriniary track and kidney very effective gram pos and neg but stays in the ui track

Steroids-  all strengthen and harden protein turger cells disrupting mitosis. different steroids effect different areas of the body.

So I Carry a-- tetracycline PW, sulfimide Bolbus, diphenhydramine Imiv (antihistamine),

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## Rick

Now, if there were only four bacteria in the world we had to worry about that would work swell. Here's a list for you. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_antibiotics

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## hunter63

> If you guys want to simplify your med stock pile. All antibiotics are derived from 1 of these 4.  cyline, sulfur (sulfamide),  penicillin, steroid.  Pharmaceutical companies slightly change the formula only so a new drug can be patented then sold for big bucks.
> 
> Penicillan- ampicillian- amoxicillian- rivacillen- ext, all the same. effective on gram pos
> 
> Cycline, tetracycline- doxicillian- oxytetracycline- ext,  same.  effective on Gram neg and slightly gram Positive 
> 
> Sulfamide- bactrum BS, - all for Uriniary track and kidney very effective gram pos and neg but stays in the ui track
> 
> Steroids-  all strengthen and harden protein turger cells disrupting mitosis. different steroids effect different areas of the body.
> ...


So what the heck did you just say....Gram neg?......I'm impressed, But.....
I am a blue pill, white pill, big pill, little pill.....kinda guy......

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## ace_maveric

Thanks Rick for the link  It truly provides a lot of info for what I was trying to say in a very easy and comprehensive way and show that all of those drug that it lists are derived from just the first 3 classes. Explaining which bactrims are gram pos and which gram neg. 
 And hunter I would love to explain the difference between gramic bactiria and the peptidoglycan of bacteria. So if you are truly interested let me know.

Oh and i guess I did leave out the Aminoglycoside's. how ever most people know that alcohol kill bacteria. And there is the arsnic group like Arsphenamine if you really want to used those.  Thanks Rick for pointing those out.

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## hunter63

> Thanks Rick for the link  It truly provides a lot of info for what I was trying to say in a very easy and comprehensive way and show that all of those drug that it lists are derived from just the first 3 classes. Explaining which bactrims are gram pos and which gram neg. 
>  And hunter I would love to explain the difference between gramic bactiria and the peptidoglycan of bacteria. So if you are truly interested let me know.


Not really, all I need to know is was related to me back in the old days as a night shift supervisor responsible for FA .....
Navy nurse....
"I you can see it, put a bandied on it.....if you can't see it give them an aspirin"

I gonna guess I'm not the only one with less than advanced or I should say,.... any medical training....so that kinda make all the information useless to me.
I need the dumb guy version.

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## TXyakr

> I was wondering what other medicines are vital to a survival pack? 
> **************************************
> Your newbie survivalist enthusiast


Best to talk to your PCP or a nurse at Doctor's office about brand names etc. Many years ago my Doctor of over 25 years said to avoid triple antibiotic ointment and use polysporin or just an antiseptic. I sometimes just use iodine but about 2% of people are allergic to that according to one Dr I know.

1. Topical antibiotic ointment (Bacitracin zinc or Polysporin,
    many people react severely to Neosporin, neomycin requiring #5 below or an urgent care medical facility)
2. Topical antiseptic (1 fl oz bottle of Iodine Tricture 2% is my preference over those pads that dry out)
     Iodine 2% 5 -10 drops in quart of water will generally purify it, so has an alternate use,
     but not for pregnant women.)
3. Anti-diarrhea (IMODIUM A-D or generic equivalent will get you out of minor Beaver Fever problems most of the time)
4. "NSAID" for pain and anti inflammation (some prescriptions are just higher dosages of OTC meds)
5. Antihistamines topical and oral (can make you sleepy)
6. Bandages of many kinds, a few butterfly to close large lacerations, liquid bandaid last resort as are sutures they can seal in infection, as much air as possible but minimize secondary infections. Quick access Tourniquet, I once had to rip off the bottom of a friend's shirt, it worked but was very dirty.
7. Tweezers from electronic supply that are strong and highly functional
8. Scissors that actually work, cut away apparel, tape etc.
9. Those pink pills for upset stomach, nausea etc.:  bismuth subsalicylate
10. 1st Aid Burn Cream with Aloe and Lidocaine HCL 0.5% Solarcaine is a common brand easily found but some prefer other brands that have Benzalkonium Chloride 0.13% a mild Antiseptic, If possible get all burns in cold water or ice as quickly as possible.
11. That stuff for Poison Ivy/oak or just wash well with soap and water
12. Topical analgesic (Benzocaine 6% w/v) for Stings or bug bits or just use alcohol and #5 Antihistamines.
13. 3-6 ml Syringe to irrigate or flush dirt out of cut or wound. (bulb syringe has sterile problems)
14. CPR mask, "3D" type with one way valve in hard case is best if space is not an issue,  i.e. kit for home use or car camping.  But thin latex or nitrile will work. Practice once every 2 yr min in recertification class on adult and infant manikins.

A friend of mine (former EMT) will often take an AED and full back board in his 17 foot canoe or raft. This seems excessive to me but one older friend almost died of a heart attack and his Dr said to not paddle more that 10 miles/day for a year. Also many people fall while climbing on cliffs beside rivers out west, i.e. More injuries than on the river. So I don't mind helping him load and unload.

I had a fellow camper swell up severely due to a reaction to neomycin, he needed to be evacuated quickly. The fool over exaggerated how much outdoor experience he had and messed up the trip for everyone else with his lack of preparedness. IMO everyone should learn what they are allergic to and have a minimal First aid kit on their person virtually at all times. (not while swimming or bathing obviously). I am not impressed with how much mystical smoke you blow and communing with the spirits you do or how much you pray to gods or whatever just use common sense and its all cool with me.

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## TXyakr

Unlicensed Medical professionals or non-professionals can get into serious legal trouble for giving out prescription medication so I would never admit to having ever done that!

For a few rare very remote wilderness adventures in N.A. I have taken various items such as Amoxicillin, very strong pain and anti-inflamaitories, EpiPen (epinephrine), Suture Kit, Nitroglycerin, anti-biotic eye drops, and a few other things but I generally do not tell anyone else on the trip and usually there is a M.D. or Wilderness EMT on most trips of 1-2 weeks in extreme wilderness areas, so I just assist and try to stay out of their way.

As a kid my mother took plenty of antibiotics and stuck me with tetanus shots a few times herself, put that was overseas. Here in the USA if it is possible to use a GPS signaling device, or mobile phone to call for helicopter or surface evacuation of the injured or sick person, then you are required by most state laws to do that first.‎

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## ace_maveric

> I store PENICILLIN, AMOXICILLIN and CIPROFLAXIN.
> I get them from an online fish meds store.
> They are identical to human antibiotics down to the markings on the pills. 
> I read a report as well on the longetivity of antibiotics after their exp. date. If kept in a dark, cool place, they last years past their exp. date but can lose some of it's potency.
> There was one antibiotic that can become toxic after the exp. date. I can't remember which one.
> Maybe Tetracycline or Erythromycin.


The Cyclines (Tetracycline, Oxytetracycline, Doxycycline, Chlortetracycline Clomocycline, Demeclocycline, Lymecycline, Meclocycline, Metacycline, Minocycline,  Penimepicycline, Rolitetracycline, Glycylcyclines, Tigecyclineand- generic names only)- will decay turning into cyanide. Liquid forms turn very dark and thick, as for the pills-  Although there is actually no simple spot test for cyanide, there is a simple spot test for free chlorine -- namely, that potassium iodide starch paper will turn dark blue to purple in the presence of free chlorine. Which is usually associated with the breakdown decay.

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## Rick

I guess if you want to twist my point into something that supports yours that's okay. Your premise negates the fact that bacteria, like viruses, mutate over time and new strains are found so a single gram negative antibiotic will not have an affect on all gram negative bacteria. Pharmaceutical companies manufacture newer antibiotics in response to mutations. Yes, they are in the business to make money. If they didn't they wouldn't be in business. Do they overcharge? Off course they do. They charge what the market will pay just like grocery stores and car dealers. That's how free enterprise works. But assuming that four classes of antibiotics will serve all your needs is not correct. If it would we would not be having a problem with MRSA, HA-MRSA, CA-MRSA, Tuberculosis or the host of other antibiotic resistant strains. In addition, many bacteria require combinations of drugs to be effective. 

You guys can buy all the fish meds you want. Self medicating with the wrong antibiotic is part of the reason we are where we on on the antibiotic time line. I would be really PO'd if I picked up some strain of bacteria that turned out to be resistant because some folks chose to diagnose and medicate themselves rather than going to a doctor to find out what the real problem is and which medicine is appropriate for it. 

I fully expect someone to post on how to remove your own appendix in the field. It's just an incision and a snip, right? 

I have to leave now. I need to find a larger soap box.

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## hunter63

Rick, Rick, Rick....It's the blue one.....take the blue one........

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## Rick

I recently watched The Necessary Death of Charlie Countryman and there's a scene where this 20 something is in obvious pain. 

Friend 1 to Friend 2: "Look at him, mate. He's in pain. Tell him how many Viagra you took."
3rd Friend in painful grimace thinks for a minute. "Five...six...maybe...seven." 

There's also a pretty funny movie called Hard Times in which a truck load of Viagra gets dumped in the town's well.

Yeah, take the blue one.

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## TXyakr

> Pharmaceutical companies manufacture newer antibiotics in response to mutations.


There is growing evidence that even the widespread use of common, low grade antibiotics can cause bacteria to become resistant (by mutation) to the rarely use newer "super antibiotics". Also most antibiotics used in the USA are only used to make your grocery store meat cheaper, to grow the livestock faster so they consume less feed and water, and time to market is shorter.

I am all in favor of low income people having lower cost protein, this should lower diabetes and obesity due to highly refined carbohydrate diets etc. but some common sense is necessary. A diet high in unrefined legumes helps and will not necessarily cause you to lose your job due to gassy outbursts.

This "documentary" is one sided but still worth watching:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...h-antibiotics/

Jump to Minute 25:30

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## ace_maveric

I guess what I was really trying to say is that there is little point on doubling and tripling on the antibiotics that do the same function.

CIPRO- is a fluoroquinolone given for respiratory and lower gi track,                (similar to sulfimide)
CLINDAMYCIN- is a lincosamide given for everything penicillin is given,             (similar to penicillin) 
CEPHALEXIN- is a cephalosporine given for everything penicillin is given,            (similar to penicillin)
AMOXICILLIN- is a aminopenicillin, given for everything penicillin is given            (similar to penicillin)
LEVOFLOXACIN- is a fluoroquinolone given for respiratory and lower gi track,       (similar to sulfimide)
CLARITHROMYCIN- is a  macrolide given for respiratory and lower gi track           (similar to alchole)
DOXYCYCLINE- is a  tetracycline, given for anti-protozoa and bacterial                (similar to Oxytetracycline)

Alcohol- root class for all macrolides
Tetracycline_ Root class for cyclines
Penicillin- Root class for all lincosamide, cephlosporine, aminopenicillin 
Sulfur- Root class for all sulfimides 
nalidixic acid- Root of all fluoroquinolones

Yes there are differences and is mostly about manipulating the gnome so that the drug stays in the body longer and goes where it is needed.

For Example:
Sulfer is known to work the best but they can not go in to the circulatory system and upsets many peoples stomachs.
Penicillin is short lived and is given 3-4 up to 6x per day amoxicillian is 2-3x/ day
oxytetracyclin or doxycycline is usally just once per day and can be given IV so it can go place penicillin can not.
Every one knows alcohol is also great antibiotic but it goes to your stomach then kidney and liver and is neutralized, so if you have a UTI in the blader won't do any good in the original form so binding with a methanol nitrate enables it to fulfill its journey.

but for this list that welder guy had i would only have
Cipro-  
Amoxicillian is second class and easier to store then penicillian
Doxycycline  is tetracycline but doesnt yellow teeth and is easiest to store
and I would add 
Sulfamethazine
Diphenhydramine injectable IM and tablet

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## Rick

There is also the issue of the human microbiome (gut bacteria). The rise is obesity coincides with the rise in antibiotic use. Since antibiotics can mess up your gut bacteria they can impact how you process foods and there is an impact to the immune system as well. So low income protein (beef fed antibiotics) may well be one of the players in obesity. If interested just google "microbiome". You can also google "microbiome and obesity".

Just curious, do you have a background in pharmacology?

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## ace_maveric

I used to be a chemist, i've done some microbial lab work also, then worked at microsoft.  I know probably just sounds like a bunch of BS to you but it is true.  And I saw 1st hand what the Builderburg is truly trying to do.

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## Rick

If you say that's what you did I'll take your word for it. As to Bilderberg I'll let that speak for itself. Choi.

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## TXyakr

Not wise to put to much weight in these studies because numbers can be twisted and interpolated to show false "trends" and inaccurate cost estimates but there is probably some fire behind the smoke.

http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/mgi

Annual global impact of obesity is estimated by McKinsey Global Institute to be roughly $2 Trillion in US Dollars.
More than cost of all current armed conflict in the world, so perhaps those bumper stickers of "Pray for World Peace" should be replaced with "Eat health, exercise and don't abuse antibiotics".  Oh heck, I'm being ridiculous. This was a cost estimate not a death toll, I hate to see the estimate on premature deaths.

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## TXyakr

> I guess what I was really trying to say is that there is little point on doubling and tripling on the antibiotics that do the same function.


Very good point. In a climate that is not very humid and/or tropical a simple non-anitbiotic soap and clean water is often all that is needed to clean pathogens out of a minor scrape or cut. As a young kid when I traveled from the Amazon to the deserts of California one time I was amazed at how fast minor injuries healed on their own, it seemed like magic to me. Best of all the village Shaman did not insist on blowing smoke over it. (Joking a bit there, that guy had killed 3 - 4 men and freaked me out when he got going into his spirit world stuff, I never let him blow smoke on me. I knew of 3 men he had killed because he wanted their wives for himself. But I was told that he later killed a fourth and the brothers of those he killed ambushed and shot him to death. These indigenous people did not exactly live in perfect harmony with each other, but they laughed a lot around the campfire at night and were fun to hunt and fish with.)

Another minor point: the chickens in your byline "Their motive" I make many grammatical errors as well that one was just bugging me. I suspect the chickens spotted some tasty bugs on the other side, in my grammar.

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