# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Livestock and Animal Husbandry >  Horses for Survival?

## Adventure Wolf

Does anyone use horses for survival? If so, how?

I'm from the rural south and I am familiar with horses, but I don't understand if there's a difference in using a horse in a survival situation vs using a horse in a work situation?

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## Tokwan

In a war or famine situation it could be on the menu.

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## Adventure Wolf

> In a war or famine situation it could be on the menu.


In a war or famine situation, you could be on the menu  :Smile:

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## Tokwan

I see it  as..you and the horse...muahahahahahahahahahaha.....first the horse, then the rider..... :FRlol:

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## hunter63

Lots of horse people out here in South western Wisconsin.....several friend have them.....
They are horse people.....that's what they live for....So you are a horse person or you are not.

All are broke....horses take a lot of room, care, feed , money and attention.

The truck just sat for 3 days......all I had to do was scrape the windows after it started.
Just saying.

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## Rick

We have a few horse parts here on the forum.

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## crashdive123

Yeah, I........hey wait a minute.

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## hunter63

Yeah, what the???????......

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## Adventure Wolf

So yeah....what?...Rick?....

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## randyt

Why is there more horses azzes than horses? present company excluded of course.

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## crashdive123

> Why is there more horses azzes than horses? present company excluded of course.


They only sent the hind ends to Washington.

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## hunter63

This thread really went sideways fast......

Seriously, ....If you have and use horse regularly.....many people do then you already have the barn, feed, tack, pasture, and other gear to actually have and use these fine animals.....is one thing.

To say, I gonna get a horse for survival is maybe not that good of an idea.......
Horses are a way of life.

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## crashdive123

Hunter pretty much nailed it (the topic, not the horse).  If you own and care for horses now you will use them because they are a way of life.  To get one for the sole purpose of using it in a disaster scenario would probably not work out so well.

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## LowKey

And there is a difference in training your riding horse and training your plow horse. You can't just put any old horse in front of a plow (or a wagon) and expect him to know what to do. You can train a horse to do both.

I don't own horses, but my grandfather did. Just the riding kind though. I also worked at a place that used mules for plowing. Big honest working brutes but when the sun hit the top of the trees at the end of the day they would head back to the barn, sometimes dragging plow and driver along with them, and no talking them out of it.

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## hunter63

Trucks and tractors were invented for a reason......
Don't believe everything you see in westerns............

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## LowKey

They used the mules for plowing because they were more respectful of the crop than a tractor. The farm was also on a hillside where tractors might have been more dangerous. They're out of business now. The land became exceedingly valuable so the owner sold out. All houses now.

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## Adventure Wolf

Let's say I had a horse, how would the horse be used?

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## randyt

cultivating, plowing, pulling a wagon, pulling logs, pulling a stone boat, powering a sorghum mill, riding, packing.

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## Tokwan

My grandfather (who happens to be a Brit) have 2 thoroughbreds in the early 60's. I remember them well...Sad to say the horses eat better than my granddad...hehehe

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## randyt

there's a lot of money in horses, you should see what I've spent so far.

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## hunter63

This area has a lot of Amish, and they still use horses a lot....and there is a big market for wagons, and farm implements....don't see them just riding them too much.

If some one was to travel by horse back, may be useful.....but you really have to have the experience level and gear.

My friends have several....mostly riding and barrel racing.
A few have mules for night coon hunting.....a mule won't run you off a cliff or under a low limb.....or so they say.....

Still a lot of work, and money.............

Next door neighbors had a couple of big older horses (kids rode them).......then got a couple of mustangs for out west.
They didn't have enough pasture....and would let them on my land....by "accident"......long story but were finally had to give them up........  

I'll take a truck any day.

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## Tokwan

I saw one movie a long long time ago...it was about an aftermath of a war or a nuclear or something...and the guy ( a father in the movie) rode out on his horse where the people grabbed his horse and have it for food.

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## Adventure Wolf

Let's take the money aspect out of this, and go on to another question. What specific things would I have to do, or take with me, if I was using my horse for bugging out?

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## Tokwan

Food for the horse and a weapon to protect the horse from being consumed.

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## randyt

will you be bugging through the bush or down the roads? If only one horse available, it probably would be better served as a pack or cart animal.

A pack saddle, rope and panniers or a harness and cart. Hobbles would be handy for night time, a hoof pick, halter, lead rope, brush etc.

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## Adventure Wolf

Can you give me a response for both options, since this is a generic discussion?

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## randyt

If going through the bush, the horse could be used as a pack horse and led. If going down roads the horse could be used as a cart animal.

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## NavySEAL

I have been working (driving, riding etc) horses for over 70 years......first and foremost rule....a horse is not a dog..don't expect him to behave like one.......like teen age kids most of them don't like to work...they like to roll in the dirt, eat fresh green grass and drink clear running water.....rule # 2...... a horse even though he is big and strong he is made out of glass and breaks easily.....his feet mostly......no hoof-no horse......a 3 legged horse is just meat.......they can hurt you and not mean to.....you are a big target sitting on a horse....whether the bad guys shoot you or the horse you are going down.......if you already have years of working with them and know how to take care of their feet (remember the 3 legged horse rule) and you have lots of feed (1200lb horse needs 20 pounds of hay a day...every day...plus grain if you are working him hard) .......also there is no such thing as an average horse just like there are no average animals of any kind.....they are all different and will react in their own individual way.......one horse will do something with little or no training but his full brother wont do it at all. Getting a horse after the shtf is like getting an airplane.....best you know how to fly before you are required to know how to fly and fight at the same time......if you can join up with a bunch of horse people then go for it.......trying it on your own would be a very anal clenching experience.

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## LowKey

You couldn't even show my grandpa's horses the lead rope if you wanted to ride them. They were always out in the field so you got them to come close by shaking a pot of molasses oats. If they saw the rope, they would not come. Suckers otherwise. Once you snapped the lead rope on the halter though, they would pretty much do what you wanted as far as getting em saddled up and going for a trail or fence ride. 

A horse that spooks though, is like sitting on the back of a 1200lb rocket that does not care if he takes you under a branch or too close to the barn wall or over the pasture fence. Only ever had one take me over a fence unexpectedly but no amount of hauling on the reins was gonna slow him down.

I would love to be in a situation where I could keep a horse. But in a SHTF situation, you would probably spend a lot of time defending one. 
As for road or woods when bugging out, I don't think, even with a horse that can pull a cart, that I would close down my options. You might have to leave the road. You may not want to be on the road (with everyone else.) The road may become impassible. Having a pack animal would be handier.

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## Highhawk1948

If you don't know horses you don't need to mess with them.  With horses it's not if, but when, you will get hurt.  I got the scars and joint pain to prove it.  They are great transportation but do need some daily care.  You could move them around so they could graze and get to water.  I have a plan if the SHTF around here but I need to stay on the farm to provide for them.  There is a lot of pasture around here put they would be stolen or shot for food without me guarding them.  As to use, mine would only be good for transportation to hunting grounds and maybe packing my kill out.

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## hunter63

> I have been working (driving, riding etc) horses for over 70 years......first and foremost rule....a horse is not a dog..don't expect him to behave like one.......like teen age kids most of them don't like to work...they like to roll in the dirt, eat fresh green grass and drink clear running water.....rule # 2...... a horse even though he is big and strong he is made out of glass and breaks easily.....his feet mostly......no hoof-no horse......a 3 legged horse is just meat.......they can hurt you and not mean to.....you are a big target sitting on a horse....whether the bad guys shoot you or the horse you are going down.......if you already have years of working with them and know how to take care of their feet (remember the 3 legged horse rule) and you have lots of feed (1200lb horse needs 20 pounds of hay a day...every day...plus grain if you are working him hard) .......also there is no such thing as an average horse just like there are no average animals of any kind.....they are all different and will react in their own individual way.......one horse will do something with little or no training but his full brother wont do it at all. Getting a horse after the shtf is like getting an airplane.....best you know how to fly before you are required to know how to fly and fight at the same time......if you can join up with a bunch of horse people then go for it.......trying it on your own would be a very anal clenching experience.


That has been my experience as well....and I don't own one....friends that do can relate.

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## Adventure Wolf

So to sum up this thread.

1. Horses are expensive - you'll go broke.
2. Horses are not useful in a survival situation
3. Don't buy a horse

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## hunter63

> So to sum up this thread.
> 
> If you have and use horses everyday for riding and working and have the experience, tack and room....may be a option
> 
> 1. Horses are expensive - you'll go broke.
> 2. Horses are not useful in a survival situation
> 3. Don't buy a horse


Yeah, pretty much.

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## Fort fireman

OK, what I would take with me. First I would take 2 saddle horses. One to ride and one to pack. Then the next day I would swap to keep the horses fresh longer. that and to keep them working under saddle. The horses today may have better "breeding" but compared to the horses of yesteryear are lacking in the longvity( generally speaking). Lets face it most horses of today are ridden for a few hours a day at most then back on pasture or in a barn. I ride alot and if I put 8 hours on one horse in a day that is a BIIIGGGG day.
      Next, as was said earlier in the thread. if you don't have sound feet you don't have a horse. Yu will need tools to keep the horse sound. This will include, shoe puller, hoof pick and knife,Nipper,Rasp, spare shoes( I only shoe fronts, if really rocky you may need to add hind shoes)nails, hammer and clincher. And the knowhow to use them.
    Tack including saddle, bridle, bit(possibly more than one depending on the horses training), halter and lead rope. saddle pad( possible more than one depending on horse confirmation and saddle fit) , hobbles or a high line set up for over night. A pack saddle and the know how to pack it as not to sore the horse.
     Possibly the most important part is the horse sense to now when they may be in trouble or when you are in trouble. Either physically or mentally. 

      IMHO a horse is not really practical for a true Bug out situation. If you intend to cover a good bit of ground anyway. A common misconception is that back in the day a cowboy got on his horse and rode from texas to monatana and back onhis horse. that isn't true. The average cowboy on a drive had a string 10-15 horse. The drive rarely went faster than a cows walking pace. That drive ws from texas to Kansas or the northern range(Montana/Wyoming) to Kansas where the railheads were. Then they packed up and went back with ussually a new string of horses. It was a horse fleshintensive venture. Now that being said i would not have a problem using my guys for a scout type deal or if road conditions prevented the use of my truck or something along those lines. I wuldn't have a problem packing a daypacks worth of stuff in my saddle pockets and doing an over nighter. just wouldn't want to cover alot of ground with them and I LOOOOOOVE saddle time and my guys and gal are pretty stout.

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## Fort fireman

and now for some show off time. :Laugh: 

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## finallyME

get a goat.

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## Rick

Man. That was baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

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## randyt

I much prefer rein deer or even a moose.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Having owned several horses for 5 yrs. I will say they won't be of much help in a survival situation. I'll also say once you have them it is very hard to imagine life without them. It costs a lot and it is a lot of work. I have no regrets.

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## Section10

I've never owned a horse, but I owned a farm and I used to board them for other people.  They're mostly a useless money pit.  But so are most other pets.  OTOH if you really like them and have the facilities to handle them and the money, they're just as good a pet as any other.  Using them as work animals can be feasible, provided you know what you're doing and really love it, but they are a lot of trouble.  My neighbor had a draft horse team and he loved them.  Of course he was retired and didn't really need them for an income source. The only real advantage of horses is if you put two tractors out in the field, it don't matter how long you wait they will never make another tractor.

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## hunter63

LOL....But you can sell them for big bucks....to Hobby farmers.
Kinda over now, but for a while you could sell your 1953 Ford 8n for $3000 bucks....LOL

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## xjosh40x

I had a pony for a pack animal a few year ago. We would go on the horse trail not far from where I live. A 25 mile trail. We would ride our trail horse. Mine was a bay mare quarter and she was awesome but could be very stubborn. Super powerful horse and was trained for barrel racing. Our pack pony was the sweetest and loved tagging along on the trail. With 6+ people that were usually on the trip we put the bulky items suck as pots, water cantaners and fishing gear on old Lighting. And she didn't need to be on a lead rope. She would just tag along beside us and would never spook. Even when the train passed or the coyotes howls she was a rock. But for a SHTF scenario a horse would well for someone who knows how to mantain such an a animal. People say well the horse can eat grass and drink from a stream. Some grasses and weeds will make a horse ill, must be able to identify. Water may have pathagiens deadly to you and the horse. A coyote may spook your horse and throw you and a snake my whip pass their feet and you find yourself a quarter mile off coarse by the time you have them calm. What if your saddle breaks, is the horse well behaved enough to ride bare. Even the smallest gash in the hind legs will bring the animal down. You really must know your stuff.
image.jpg

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## TXyakr

> Does anyone use horses for survival? If so, how?
> 
> I'm from the rural south and I am familiar with horses, but I don't understand if there's a difference in using a horse in a survival situation vs using a horse in a work situation?


I have personally never used a horse for my survival but I would use any means necessary if in a difficult situation to transport my gear and myself. My father, born 1915, grew up using teams of Clydesdale horses in Alberta for transportation and to plow fields because his father, born 1865, did not trust tractors and combustion engines etc. The old man died and my father and uncle bought tractors and trucks etc. When I was young some friends had horses, I asked for one my dad said only if I could pay for all the feed and vet bills myself. I got an estimate from them and gave up on that dream. Dad bought me an off road motorcycle. That or an ATV + cart would be my preferred bug out transportation then by foot or canoe/pack raft or something depending on terrain.

However, that suggestion of a goat is not totally ridiculous (finallyME comment #36). But best if you are one of the few people who actually like goat milk/cheese etc and also cabrito (young goat meat). A well behaved nanny (female) goat could pull a small cart/sled/travois of your "bug-out" gear. Or even a well trained dog or llama etc. It takes constant training to get these animals to work properly in a harness, and some just will not do it even if others in the same exact litter do just fine (sounds like cabrito BBQ to me). For years I purchase raw (not pasteurized) goat milk from a friend at work. In Texas technically if you buy a goat or share of a goat you can pay someone a service fee to give you the milk from that animal raw, whatever, silly law. Raw milk and cheese is delicious and healthy IMO, but pasteurizing in your kitchen is also very easy. I can do it over a wood fire with a double broiler no problem, minimal damage to the milk.

With a bit of creativity there are ways to use many different animals to haul your gear, and other "survival" uses for those animals beyond just eating them once you get to where you are going. In tropical countries water buffalo have far fewer health problems than cattle and horse (major tick and virus problems) but personally I don't like the milk and meat of them but I could get over this personal issue if I needed to.

In the Amazon we cross bred a Swiss Bull with Brahman cows to overcome some of these problems, the bull (calf that grew up) died of tick fever and/or other tropical diseases eventually but fathered many calves. I drank lots of milk from this new cross breed. Milked one cow with a defective tit (small hole required plastic insert) by hand every morning and evening.

edit: I insisted that my daughters took horse ridding lessons when they were younger and learn to put on Saddle and Tack etc. But they lost interest after a while, it is also very expensive. Also once in Oklahoma I insisted that they wear helmets and no one there was. Many have said something about value of brains… Heck my mother fell off a horse as a kid, got a concussion and is not an idiot, but that may explain my childhood why I grew up to be such a horse's … LOL

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## TXyakr

If draft animals end up being too much trouble just a simple motorcycle can haul a lot more "survival" gear and supplies than most folks in North America and Europe give them credit for. Here are some examples.

Hauling a village's month or so supply of rice:

08trailer_n070312.jpg

Hauling your livestock without a tailer on a motorcycle (may require a shower before supper, LOL):

cow-on-a-motorcycle.jpg

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## Rick

That's pretty amazing. How do you suppose he taught that cow how to shift?

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## Fort fireman

I wouldn't worry about the hualing ability of a motorcycle but with a load like they have I think the stopping part might get a bit hinky..

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## hunter63

> If draft animals end up being too much trouble just a simple motorcycle can haul a lot more "survival" gear and supplies than most folks in North America and Europe give them credit for. Here are some examples.
> 
> Hauling a village's month or so supply of rice:
> 
> 08trailer_n070312.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Hauling your livestock without a tailer on a motorcycle (may require a shower before supper, LOL):
> ...


Looks like "From the Walmart parking lot"

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## LowKey

Motorcycles make noise. Sometimes a LOT of noise. And since we are talking about a SHTF bug-out situation, you will need to find or carry gas. Advertising you have wheels and gas is probably not going to be a good idea.
Also, judging from my luck with motorcycles, if you aren't a good mechanic, having a motorcycle is just as much trouble as a horse.

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## TXyakr

Those were obviously 2 of the most ridiculous photos I could find of transporting large items with a motorcycle.

As in many other 3rd world countries and remote regions in N-Brazil where I grew up we occasionally used small motorcycles (125-250 cc) for transportation to some remote locations. Like the use of horses in the old west it was critical to have caches of gasoline (not hay/feed) along predetermined journeys to remote areas. (Old West and pre-combustion engine Europe, Americas etc. typically the horse would be swapped out as well quite often, but not in movies because those are nonsense.) So in a SHTF bug-out situation caches of food for horse or spare horses along your route from primary residence to remote survival cabin may be a better option but I doubt it.

In Brazil we also improvised exhaust pipes out of those intended for VW bugs (one should definitely learn to weld, and how to improvise a welder, obviously basic mechanics as well). Also many militaries have motorcycles that have modified exhausts that allow them to run fairly quietly and in water that is very deep to cross streams and irrigation canals such as are common in Iraq and Afghanistan etc. (Also not commonly seen in Mad Max movies, like new one coming out this summer, that is silly nonsense.)

Realistic carts can even be single wheeled devices with shock absorbers that can be used on very narrow trails. Some militaries (remain un-named) may or may not use these to haul heavy "guns" and ammo for special operations when foot or air transport is not viable. Use your own imagination how this may be useful in your own SHTF bug-out situation.

Edit: This Cute little Brunette can explain it to you LowKey

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/04/...st-and-silent/

or from more of a SF view:
http://www.mensjournal.com/gear/cars...-bike-20140731

Only one recent DARPA project, not the ONLY one!!!

Clarification on use of motorcycle in paragraph at top. During dry season we would cache gasoline with friends or lock in sheds along the dirt road/trail. But in rainy season these roads were virtually impassible by truck but an off-road motorcycle was much more practical, can go around mud holes in a "road" or take a short cut up a "mountain trail". Different but in a SHTF bug-out situation if there is a natural disaster or even human created event if the roads are jammed with 4 wheeled vehicles often it is possible to pass through narrow gaps between vehicles on crowded highways jammed with broken down cars or without gas etc.

My father also had one of these "Burma Jeeps" that he would winch from tree to tree through mud holes during rainy season, that is slow and painful but B-jeep can haul a lot of supplies:

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http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/burmajeep_01.jpg

His never looked this good.

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## TXyakr

> Motorcycles make noise. Sometimes a LOT of noise. And since we are talking about a SHTF bug-out situation, you will need to find or carry gas. Advertising you have wheels and gas is probably not going to be a good idea.
> Also, judging from my luck with motorcycles, if you aren't a good mechanic, having a motorcycle is just as much trouble as a horse.


As several well written comments above mentioned horses are not stealthy. I can generally detect them from at least a mile away, especially if they have shoes on and mtn paths, i.e. stone on path. Some others with more experience than me like relatives in West Texas and near Yellowstone who are pack horse outfitters can detect from several miles away and tell how many hours our days they have pass based on "road biscuits" and browse etc.

I have been in some very remote places and seen and tracked horses, cattle, spanish goats, African aoudad. If it poops it can be tracked over rock, ice and if you have hyper senses their smell, sound carries a long way even if you don't have field glasses.

Ask SF who used horses in Afghanistan, the Pashtun guides would need to have someone hold the horses far from the target location and then they would typically walk in the final few miles to avoid detection. Similar in Old American West, or hunting in Modern West, Alaska for Caribou etc. Depends on wind direction, terrain, how "firearm spooky" (aka gun-shy) the horses are etc.

By comparison for some bug-out plans an alternative that may actually be cheaper in the long run considering all feed and vet bills would be a ZERO Motorcycles DS ZF12.5 +POWER TANK 170 miles range of city miles and 82 miles of highway at 70 mph see specs for details:

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/specs.php

Electricity is not that difficult to get if you are resourceful there are many ways to generate it.


Like many people I am skeptical about a hybrid on 2 wheels for the Marines, but many of us were also skeptical about JP-8 and Diesel for 2 wheels back in the 1980s and that worked out OK. 250 then 650 cc. The modified KLR650, now known as the M1030B1 Marine Corps motorcycle but those few who have one that still runs well on diesel would never dare mention it or it could start a a bidding war.
http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/history.html

http://www.bike-urious.com/different...wasaki-klr650/

HDT not only company making small Diesel engines for motorcycles and other vehicles.

PITA to make Bio-Diesel but not impossible if you have no other options. Kerosene not advisable but possible.

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## LowKey

A horse walking down the shoulder of a highway or down a forest trail, or even going over rock is a heck of a lot quieter than a motorcycle, even if he's shod. 

If SHTF, anyone with any type of resources is going to need a small army to keep those resources safe from the hungry hordes.
Not something I'd look forward to participating in.

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## Tokwan

That is why I opt for a bicycle with a side car.

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## TXyakr

> A horse walking down the shoulder of a highway or down a forest trail, or even going over rock is a heck of a lot quieter than a motorcycle, even if he's shod.


Depends on the motorcycle I suppose. Several police departments all over the world are beginning to use e-cycles from various manufactures. Here is an example, marketing hype says: "Stealth patrols: drug enforcement, burglary, security, campus environments, other situations where silence is an advantage" Soft air filled rubber on gravel or pavement can really sneak up on you. Has freaked me out several times. I imagine they could slap some cuffs on a suspect before he had any idea he was under surveillance. Sort of a grease your underpants moment. LOL

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/fleet/police/

Just for fun (not actual serious survival SHTF scenario) cool to attempt a coast to coast trip with ultralight trailer behind an e-cycle (yakima aluminum) retrofitted hookup and with photo-voltaic cells to assist in charging batteries and hauling minimal gear.

That would NOT be my style but this would be, only I am considering the electric versus gasoline more and more these days.
Gas at $1.80 gallon at 60 mpg cost about 3 cents per mile, versus electric worst cast about 2 cents per mile.

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## TXyakr

> That is why I opt for a bicycle with a side car.


I still have the ultralight aluminum bicycle trailer that I used to haul my kids around in when they where toddlers over 10 years ago (paid about $20 for it at a yard sale.) The nylon fabric needs to be replaced, I'll probably just use polyester webbing straps, but this bicycle trailer can easily haul 100 pounds of gear, such as 2 backpacks, water, firewood or whatever. There are also some great trailers to haul an SOT kayak behind a bicycle these work well when I am a mile or more from road access to river putin but the trail is accessible by a mountain bike.

But in a SHTF scenario folks are trying to steal stuff from other people by force (0.0001% chance of that ever happening IMO) I would want something much faster like a motorcycle that can go over 90 mph. When I was teen and young 20's I did cloverleaf onramps (embankments) at 85-95mph and straight-a-ways MUCH faster and rode a 1000cc motorcycle but today I am much more conservative. Back then I considered anything under a 750cc a danger to ride due to its lack of acceleration.

Once I was leaning way over using the slope of an embanked ramp to prevent the angular acceleration throwing my bike off the road at about 90 mph and I saw a brick in my pathway. Barely missed it with my knee and tire both. I slowed down some after that.

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Deck kayak trailers:
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## Tokwan

I opted for bcycle cos ...petrol would be controlled by then or we are out of it...so pedal power is the way to go with a side arm and a AR 15 on the handle bars...hehe

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## hunter63

As an environmental project I turned in in Tech school.....involves a perpetual motion motorcycle powered by discarded alum cans. (well maybe not exactly perpetual motion).

Did a sampling on several sections of highway, sample amount of cans per mile vs value vs gas mileage....Yamaha 175 Enduro 60 + MPG. 

I would have chosen that bike over a horse......better if diesel.

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## Tokwan

I still would stick to this..hehe  http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kWzpcvBgKG...roda-tiga1.jpg

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## Lamewolf

> They only sent the hind ends to Washington.


NO NO NO, they are all a bunch of dip sticks !  Thats why we are low on oil - all the oil is in Texas and the dip sticks are in Washington and no body bothered to check the oil.....

Horse meat, its whats for supper ! :pepsi:

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## hunter63

> Depends on the motorcycle I suppose. Several police departments all over the world are beginning to use e-cycles from various manufactures. Here is an example, marketing hype says: "Stealth patrols: drug enforcement, burglary, security, campus environments, other situations where silence is an advantage" Soft air filled rubber on gravel or pavement can really sneak up on you. Has freaked me out several times. I imagine they could slap some cuffs on a suspect before he had any idea he was under surveillance. Sort of a grease your underpants moment. LOL
> 
> http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/fleet/police/
> 
> Just for fun (not actual serious survival SHTF scenario) cool to attempt a coast to coast trip with ultralight trailer behind an e-cycle (yakima aluminum) retrofitted hookup and with photo-voltaic cells to assist in charging batteries and hauling minimal gear.
> 
> That would NOT be my style but this would be, only I am considering the electric versus gasoline more and more these days.
> Gas at $1.80 gallon at 60 mpg cost about 3 cents per mile, versus electric worst cast about 2 cents per mile.
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Really do like this set up.....
Had a super cheap buddy that narrowed a Harbor Freight Trailer added a Colman Cooler.....and ended up with a similar set up.

Broke down in Arkansas, so he just called his wife, had her sell everything and moved there.......?
Must have been the trailers fault.

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## Fort fireman

there are still alot of people that do rely on horses for survival.I guess the big questionis what type of survival is the OP refering to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz_sofzIpFU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A9WIs03n2c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh0DQ80kZoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyEj4s5ows4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptZaf8eoQcQ

This is their living so therefore their survival.
I just wish I could throw a loop as good as these guys. Of course when you do it 400 times  a day in the spring you get pretty good.

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## hunter63

Point is "Do what you know".
You won't hear me saying ...."OMG SHTF, Need a horse"......

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## Fort fireman

And then sometimes there are not so great shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94xfyW3pU9k

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## Fort fireman

> Point is "Do what you know".
> You won't hear me saying ...."OMG SHTF, Need a horse"......


Yup. where as I'm already set up with them so I may be more inclined to use them than others.

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## TXyakr

> Had a super cheap buddy that narrowed a Harbor Freight Trailer added a Colman Cooler.....and ended up with a similar set up.
> 
> Broke down in Arkansas, so he just called his wife, had her sell everything and moved there.......?
> Must have been the trailers fault.


I borrowed one of those cheap Harbor Freight Trailers from a friend to haul an extra canoe on a group campout about 130 miles from home once. Roof rack of SUV was full of kayaks already. Funny thing is that because I was forced to keep my speed under 60 mph I got much better gas mileage than I had ever gotten before. Those tiny tires and wheel bearings had me worried but they held up. Being passed by EVERYONE was difficult psychologically but at least I was not Amish in a horse and buggy. Or on SH130 (Pickle Parkway) from north of Austin to south of San Antonio where the speed limit is 85 mph (so Texans drive 90-120mph?). Trucks and cars passing me there would have blown me off the highway or spooked the horse and put me in a real "pickle". pun intended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Highway_130

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## TXyakr

> And then sometimes there are not so great shots.


Somedays your arms get tired culling cattle. I remember once when our cattle got into some bad feed (byproduct of brewery) or vegetation (cannot remember exactly, was a long time ago) and we had to give them all oral medicine for the squirts. They may have been sick, but their necks were still strong and they did not want to drink out of those bottles. Also even though all the milk had to be thrown out we still had to milk them. Every time a tail went up it meant yellow stuff was about to splatter everywhere. Fun times with livestock.

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## hunter63

Harbor Freight trailers may  not be an answer for high speed hot Texas highways.

Still have one in my stable...has already suffered a catastrophic failure of weight, speed, and small tires....Didn't know it for about 15 miles, till slowed down and turned right.....and saw sparks.

Has been up graded to 12" tires, and heavier springs.........One still must be aware of dry rot/checking....load limits.
Mostly use it around "The Place" for hauling 4 wheeler to service, wood/lunber hauling, canoe/duck boat....and utility stuff.

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## TXyakr

> Harbor Freight trailers Has been up graded to 12" tires, and heavier springs …. Mostly use it around "The Place" for hauling 4 wheeler to service, wood/lunber hauling, canoe/duck boat....and utility stuff.


I agree if upgraded wheels, springs and deck these can be very useful. I imagine a person could even modify one to pull it with a horse/mule/ox or 4 wheeler etc. The one I used saved me $ on gas.

Reminds me of time I saw a pop up trailer with tiny wheels going across a low water crossing at a National Wildlife Refuge. The water was rushing over the road and well above the centerline of the wheels. I was thinking I wonder how that camping tailer works as a watercraft? LOL. Might need a team of Clydesdales to pull it up out of the river bed once the waters recede. Unfortunately for my amusement they made it across, but I had my camera ready just in case it was a Darwin Award moment. LOL

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## hunter63

English, English, What are you gonna do when they come for you....English (Sing to the Bad Boys tune)

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## TXyakr

When you rely on a horse to haul your survival gear things like Equine Herpes are a concern:

http://abc13.com/pets/horses-in-galv...-virus/507421/

XXXXL latex Torjans are not appropriate protection because it does NOT spread like that (pun intended). However, realistically speaking even if you own a horse in Texas the chances of it being stolen by horse rustler is higher than it being infected by the Equine Herpes Virus. I just could not pass up the fact that there is no vaccine for it and the pun on Trojan horse, ha ha ha. Stupid joke I know… I do feel sorry for the folks that lost their horses in the Galveston area however.

Edit: Horses and cattle stolen in Texas
"The Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association is also investigating. A spokesperson says out of the more than 2,600 cattle and horses that have been stolen this year, the average is about half will be recovered."
http://www.fox4news.com/story/264433...mansfield-barn

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## Fort fireman

Yup, with the price of beef being what it is , I'm not surprised cattle rustling is up.

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## TXyakr

> get a goat.


In some parts of Wyoming goats ARE the best pack animals, here is a good photo someone was kind enough to share online:
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
link not reliable so search here:
http://www.mchalepacks.com/gallery/d...%20Whitney.htm

or this:
CHARLIE'S goats 14x.jpg

Please be kind and do not repost without giving credit to mchalepacks

Location: 11,600' Washakie Pass in the Wind Rivers, Wyoming.

I like horses but believe me domesticated mountain goats are hardier especially if you are at high elevations, or burro or larger mule depending on how much gear you really need. Iskander may need a whole train of mountain mules/goats while prospecting for silver. I'm just sayin' LOL

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## hunter63

Can't see pic's........

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## Fort fireman

I'm a horse guy. No secret there. However if I was going for distance or fairly rugged terrain I would absolutely go with a mule or 2. They are just all around tougher . IMHO

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