# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  Off-site backups

## cacteye

I read an article in my Computer class(feels like a million years ago) about off site backups. Basically as bank or business you have all your stock in 1 location then that location becomes compromised(info gets deleted, natural disaster...Anything!) you will lose everything. now with an off-site back up, all you do is go pick up what you need. 

I was wondering if anyone has attempted this with plants and food? such as a full garden at home and a couple of miles away on a different type terrain(in case flooding became an issue) a backup garden/ food forest or what have you. Im not talking about prepping and having ready food in 2 locations(That would make an interesting future forum topic though!) I mean actual food production areas. If so then what would you plant? how would you maintain it? and what is a good distance to space them for safety reasons or convenience?

Little background as to why I asked this(My sister and her husband own 5 parcels of land ranging from 20-300 acres(cattle ranchers they need the grass) at each site they have fruit trees. funny thing is isnt apples on 1 then pears on the next. Its a full mix they did it for tax purposes(in Texas land cannot be classified as agriculture unless the cows are on it for 6 months out of the year. so the trees provided a year round solution).

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## hunter63

Do you currently have a garden?

Having my own garden out the back door generally provide all the work to keep up, weeded and harvested.

In the past have participated in "group gardens"....a part of an experiment in one case....and because neighborhood help was requested in another.
Both cases were successful for those that could keep up with the work.....meaning just couple of people.

So it kind of boils down to how much work are you willing to put in?....transportation to and from, ability and willingness to move equipment and supplies, water, and protection from pests (ALL pests, 2,4,8, legged). 

Learning to forage may be a better answer to "deploying assets".

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## cacteye

I guess your right, I'd just hate to put up a nice garden put in all the effort and end up getting washed out or drought killed or something. I have been looking into a food forest type of garden, Supposedly after a few years everything is self-sustaining.

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## Rick

I've never seen a self sustaining garden regardless of where it was located. Nature does its best to take back what's hers. You'd be better off learning some of the wild edibles. Then they would be seasonally available no matter where you are.

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## hunter63

> I guess your right, I'd just hate to put up a nice garden put in all the effort and end up getting washed out or drought killed or something. I have been looking into a food forest type of garden, Supposedly after a few years everything is self-sustaining.


Have you ever done any gardening?
You comments do sound like some one speculating that has never actually done it.
Sorry

Gardeners have been fighting/bribing/praying and sacrificing to Mother Nature since the beginning of time......or at least since the Garden of Eden was put off limits.
Other wise it would just be called "Free Food".

Now Farmers on the other hand....Have been literally betting "The Farm"....and everything they have  every year going back just as long

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## cacteye

I have done gardening, and I do actively have a large number of plants in the ground. Close to 200+ wild pepper plants(fortunately they are natives so they require almost ZERO input) a bunch of banana trees(I never water or do anything to them and they randomly send out bananas) some 9 or 10 roses for rose-hips, bunch of cacti, and some citrus trees(I will admit that the citrus trees take a decent amount of work) Other than that I water the rest once every few months and they produce fairly regularly....that being said we have had pouring rain at least once every 2 weeks since January so my plants should be flushing out a TON of fruits!

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## hunter63

I would say for a fool/weather proof garden (as best as you can)....that is the way to go....depending on low maintenance and native plantings.
Having planting like that, would make sense to have several different locations.

When people really get into trouble is trying to grow different plants out of or close to the edge of their range.....Much more work and attention needed.

In zone 5 we need to watch last frost dates, use plants that have a reasonable maturity days range, and pay attention to soil conditions.
Water can be a problem....both to little and too much.

I have a 6 acre field in the river bottom, that produces well...if it doesn't flood, and stays dry enough to harvest....LOL 
About 1 in three years it does flood.

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## LowKey

Don't think Garden. Think native fruiting shrubs and trees. The apples and pears are a bad idea because they need to be regularly sprayed if you want any kind of harvest these days. I don't know what grows in the various areas of Texas. Around my yard here in the northeast I have blueberry bushes, blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, a rapidly enlarging cranberry patch and a half dozen beach plums. A small and unhappy patch of mayapples (a native perennial), some 3ft tall pawpaws, some wild roses for the vitamin C content,  and I have a bunch more interesting things on order. This year I'm planting some cold-hardy persimmons to see if they make it and some Medlars (I tried one tree and they are downright tasty if you can wait for them to rot a bit.) It sure would be nice to have other parcels of land to put it on. I do convince a friend of mine who live about 30 miles south of me that every once in a while he really needs a few blueberry bushes or a raspberry patch... Sometimes it works.

You want things that can make it on their own and the cows won't eat. You will have wildlife issues, either good or bad depending on if you hunt.

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## hayshaker

well so far today iv,e planted 3kitty trays of mixed salad greens.turned on the property water lines though still in the process
of reparing some of the leaks where the underground hose meets the hydrant post.
cleaned up the garden space from last year.and the apricot trees are blossoming as well as the manchurian cherry bushes.

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## cacteye

Thanks for the input guys! Just had a nice glass of  :wine:  so sorry for any and all spelling errors!
First off @hunter63 
Im in zone 9b so I have more of a drought issue than a frost/freeze issue. I have mice, cotton-tails, deer, mexican pheasants and a few other critters randomly attack(lucky for me most of them taste good!) the mice end up as cat-food! :FRlol:  Yes I try to keep things as "Zone-friendly" as possible.

Next @LowKey
Natively we have "brambles" wild type of blackberry, texas persimmons, plums, Pecans, Grapes, Mesquite, ALL kinds of peppers, cacti, and all kinds of random pines(Im certain I missed about a million more). Non-native anything that lives in the desert should be able to make it here perfectly. A note/edit I would advise you to make on your persimmon type. If you can get the FUYU persimmon(fuyu=winter in Japanese) from Japan(its a non-astringent variety) not only is it sweeter than most, It can be eaten hard(you dont have to wait for it to almost rot) Plus its the 2nd biggest persimmon type(they are like small footballs) I do have some banana's, figs, papaya's, and citrus so that should give you some idea as to the tropical climate I deal with!

Finally @hayshaker Your lucky to live in a place where you can grow salads in the spring/summer I have to wait till deep winter(60 degrees F) in order to plant my lettuces and kales.

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## Winnie

I have a few of the perennial veg growing at home as well as the allotment as an insurance policy against flood, frost and pestilence. I only do this as the plants in question were so difficult to get hold of and/or expensive.

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## hayshaker

Winnie is it easy or difficult to find 5-15 acre farm places in the UK?
are their many people that are preppers that homestead say a 5acre hobbyfarm?

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## Winnie

The avarage price for a 5 acre smallholding costs around £500,000 (about $725,000) This site will give you some idea.

http://www.greenshifters.co.uk/for_sale

Yes it's pretty difficult to find one that has workable soil at a reasonable price. I know someone who recently moved to a smallholding in Wales. They have no topsoil to speak of, a couple of inches, then on to a shale bed. They are in the process of importing soil and compost to make raised beds. 
I would say most smallholders/homesteaders are preppers in some way, even if they don't think it.

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## hunter63

> The avarage price for a 5 acre smallholding costs around £500,000 (about $725,000) This site will give you some idea.
> 
> http://www.greenshifters.co.uk/for_sale
> 
> Yes it's pretty difficult to find one that has workable soil at a reasonable price. I know someone who recently moved to a smallholding in Wales. They have no topsoil to speak of, a couple of inches, then on to a shale bed. They are in the process of importing soil and compost to make raised beds. 
> I would say most smallholders/homesteaders are preppers in some way, even if they don't think it.


Thanks Winnie....
Now that, folks, should be an eye opener to most anyone, in most any place in the USA outside the East Coast, and West Coast.

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## edr730

The prices here aren't close to those prices.  I know a vacant five acre place that is actually in town limits. Small trees, big wood piles and barn needs bulldozed. End of a gravel road, secluded with a cable across the end of the drive. Flat. Plenty of growing space. I know the owner. He'd sell for $20,000.

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## cacteye

DAM that is cheap EDR730. I found some texas desert land 43 acres for 17k. The only problem is that its attached to the Mexican boarder....I dont want any spill over violence to show up on my land. so I'm still looking for something cheap and big(funny thats 2 qualities we never look for in women)

Hey WINNIE, what plants were rare and/or expensive? I'd gladly send you seeds(If I have them, that is)

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## Rick

Be cautious. Make certain the seeds you are sending are not restricted.

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## crashdive123

We sold my MIL's acreage a couple of years ago.  Wanted to move it fast - no desire to move to that part of Florida.  54 acres for $30K.  There can be deals out there - you just have to look and be patient.

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## cacteye

> Be cautious. Make certain the seeds you are sending are not restricted.


Oh I know! I got all my seeds Heirloom NON-GMO! I aint going to try and take on the big boys! I'll settle for trading/sending real seeds any day!

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## hunter63

Foreign countries sometimes have laws against importing plants and seeds.....Just saying.

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## cacteye

True....I had not thought about it!

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## Winnie

Sadly yes we do. No plant material from outside EU and only seeds from certified producers. Thanks for the offer though. :Smile:

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## Rick

That's what I meant. You can ship them okay but British customs might impound them. If you do just hope the sniffer dog has sinus problems that day.

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## cacteye

Simple solution to that. I live next to the US/Mexican border and when the people cross and want to hide their valuables they UN-stitch a Beanie baby and fill it up with beans and valuables dogs aren't trained to smell seeds.

I mean in a survival situation where you need these seeds or you will die....I could get them there(I am in no way shape or form advocating the crossing of uncertified seeds)

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## hayshaker

Guerrila gardening the first time i read about this it was about the VietNam war.
the vietcong used to plant gardens along trails a few plant here and there.
like that.

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## cacteye

that sounds pretty cool. so If i were to "trail-blaze" an area on a forest land i could grow along the trail. That is a great Idea.

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## Billofthenorth

Much of the parkland that I frequent was once farmland. There are a lot of old apple trees mixed in with the newer growth that has overtaken the fallow fields the last 50 years or so. Not to mention the blackberries and raspberries and other edible plants growing out there. It never hurts to learn their locations and is a good excuse for a hike. You could also guerilla plant a few of your own, preferably off trail where they would be harder to spot by other hikers. I imagine setting up small patches of potatoes, onions, strawberries, asparagus etc that you could keep an eye on wouldn't hurt. Some of them are perennials and even those that aren't MIGHT reseed themselves. I've had some luck in my yard with neglected potatoes and tomatoes reappearing the next year with no help from me.

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