# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Making Stuff >  Another way of building

## wildWoman

Cordwood, also called stackwall, is another good building method for anyone contemplating a little cabin (or a big one). It's similar to building with stones, only you're using pieces of wood (around 12"-24" in length) instead of stones. 

It's cheap, easy and looks exceptionally cool and original IMO. Tools needed for buiding the walls are a wheelbarrel, shovel, hoe, rubber work gloves and a chain saw. You can use firewood-grade wood and it's a very good building method for one person because you're not dealing with big or long logs.

The disadvantage is that it's slow and rainy weather will slow you down further because you're working with mortar. And you will need to use Perma-Chink or Log Jam for sealing all the cracks because wood and cement don't form a close and happy marriage.

It's easier to understand how it works by looking at pictures: basically, the pieces of wood are laid down on two strips of mortar with sawdust in between to prevent heat loss through the mortar.

There are some excellent books by Rob Roy (that is his name) on how to do it and probably websites, too.

Here's some pictures:

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## crashdive123

Outstanding looking.  I like it.

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## Rick

That's the first time I've seen that. I like it, too.

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## crashdive123

As thick as the wall construction is, I would think that the insulating properties are very good.

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## Chrs

Thats really cool  :Smile:

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## Rick

Or warm....just sayin'.

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## wildWoman

It wasn't as warm as I expected but I only made the walls 12" thick and for up here, the recommendation is twice that (was meant to be a summer cabin but then of course I used it in the winter too).

If I would build one like that again, I'd use fibre glass instead of sawdust in the walls. The sawdust will settle when you start banging the roof on, so I think the top third of the walls will not have much insulation between the mortar strips/inside and outside walls.
Also I didn't have the cash for Perma-Chink and ended up with great ventilation because of course the logs always do still shrink and the mortar around them doesn't.

But I totally love the look and feel of it, and it is an extremely forgiving building method because you can't build exact with it anyway. Really good for first timers.

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## crashdive123

Wild Woman - would an expanding foam insulation (like  Great Stuff) work for sealing the areas where the chinking/sawdust has settled?

http://greatstuff.dow.com/

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## Pal334

Very interesting. I think I will read up on this some more. Thanks for sharing

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## wildWoman

> Wild Woman - would an expanding foam insulation (like  Great Stuff) work for sealing the areas where the chinking/sawdust has settled?
> 
> http://greatstuff.dow.com/


It might. I think it would be hard to get whatever insulation into all the nooks and crannies. Some people get around the problem by essentially building one skinny wall, then framing in regular batts of insulation, then building the second wall, and using window framing plus some studs to connect the two walls. That's probably the only way to get it really well insulated but way too slow to get it all done in my opinion. then again, build it fast and spend the time saved cutting more firewood...

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## canid

i bet injectable/expanding foam would be perfect for that. it oozes and fills just about anything as it expends. it seems like it would get into just about everywhere [not to mention project from the wall in places].

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## wareagle69

we have a guy here in ontario, called the natural building institute (google it) he has awesome ideas about and hour and a half from here on manatoulin island, i have seen alot of ideas like this and have something in the back of my mind for this, probably will make it out of cedar as i have lots of it in my wood pile and i only like to use it for kindling and not for regular burning as it burns too hot
what are you using your building for?

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## Pal334

THere seems (from your pictures) to be alot of room between logs, thus using alot of chinking material. Is this deliberate? And if so why?

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## wildWoman

That was my first cabin and I lived in it for a few years. Then I sold the place when we moved out here and the people who bought it live in it now. It's bigger than it looks - inside diameter is 18'.
I think it makes nice buildings. I built another cabin the same size there and a chicken coop. If you can get gravel or sand cheap and get your own wood, the only expensive items are the floor and the roof. Doesn't take all that many bags of cement.

Pal, I think you mean the mortar (dark grey mass) between the logs? You can do it with thinner mortar joints but it becomes very fiddly and since it is the honeycomb structure of the mortar that holds it all together (the logs shrink so much you can wiggle them), I thought I make it rather solid. Depending on how much lime you mix in and if you use sand rather than gravels as I did, you can end up with a much lighter coloured and smoother wall than I did.
If you meant the sawdust in between the mortar joints - it's hard to see on the pictures, even the first one - the sawdust is basically in the middle of the wall and serves as insulation. That way, the mortar joints that eventually form the inside wall and the outside wall can't touch each other and conduct cold in or heat out (or heat in - that was the best cabin in the summer time I've ever stayed in, it never got hot in there. Not so good in the winter because I didn't use Perma-chink to seal around the log ends after I was done, so there were cracks all around each log end from the wood shrinkig.).

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## erunkiswldrnssurvival

> It might. I think it would be hard to get whatever insulation into all the nooks and crannies. Some people get around the problem by essentially building one skinny wall, then framing in regular batts of insulation, then building the second wall, and using window framing plus some studs to connect the two walls. That's probably the only way to get it really well insulated but way too slow to get it all done in my opinion. then again, build it fast and spend the time saved cutting more firewood...



you would use the reddy foam in the center of the logs be careful not to cover it up with mortor( use 18 inch logs so that you get roughly 4 inches of insulaiton). the insulate would not be seen an you would have ample masonry to hold the walls togather. to improve strength you should use wire stapled to the logs like you would reenforcement with block, every third run a wire band to tie the logs togather.

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## hunter63

A lot of work and writing on "Stack Wood" has been done, including "R" values of different lengths of wood, mortar mix, insulation etc, even how to make a cut off saw so as to get all the lengths the same.

Here is a good start:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green...Log-Homes.aspx

We attended the seminars at The Mother Earth Village back in 1984, where you actually took part in building a stack wood barn.
I found it very intresting, and can be built with mostly scavenged materials (cheap), but is labor intensive as most of the alternate building methods; examples
Straw bale
Rammed earth
old tires (earth-ships)
slip form ( concrete, papercrete, rock etc.)

Lots of stuff out there.............
WW, nice job, cool cabin, gets me thinking about an old satellite dish, roofed shed.

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## Pal334

Thanks WW, that does help. And it was the mortar that seemed so much. Now it makes sense to me.

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## Jonesy

I really like that a lot. Thanks for the heads up.  :Smile:

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## chiye tanka

That's freakin' cool!
I love it.

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## Chris

> Wild Woman - would an expanding foam insulation (like  Great Stuff) work for sealing the areas where the chinking/sawdust has settled?
> 
> http://greatstuff.dow.com/


Stuff would be way too expensive for a whole structure. There is a pourable kind that you can pour into crevices that might work, I've never seen it sold retail though, would probably need to go to a special building supplier.

I'm wondering about the air holes where the wood shrinks.  Few ideas:

1. Get a roll (or few) of hardware cloth. Hammer tack it onto the log ends all around. Put on a scratch coat of mortar, then go back and put on stone, fancy stuff you bought, or stuff you scavenged. Now the outside is fully mortar, the hardware cloth should keep it dimensionally stable, should be no air leaking. Will look like a stone house though.

2. Skip the hardware cloth and just put on a layer of fiberglass reinforced cement made for walls. You trowel it on, and it is strong stuff. People trowel it around beach balls to make lightweight "boulders". Paint/stain and seal it. Look like a mud hut, but should be air tight.

3. Do as #1, but finish it up with stucco.

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## Erratus Animus

I bought his book a few years ago and was taken back by the beauty of his home, earthship. I really like the yurt look but have not yet built any thing , however seeing this post does encourage me to rekindle the desire to build one. A man could always use another shop  :Innocent:

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## Rick

You are more than welcome to build one at my house. I could always use another shop, you're right.

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## crashdive123

I love the look of them.  Down here about the only way one would survive is to build it either off grade, or on a slab......termites.

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## Rick

Well, there you go. Looks like it's my place.

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## BENESSE

The whole structure of the house is built into the earth and the exposed front and roof are faced with recycled copper. The roof also has solar panels. The interior uses materials found on the property.

http://www.architecturaldigest.com/h...deshow#slide=1

Wish I knew how much it cost to build it but it's a cool look and a cool idea.

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## BENESSE

A little more about the architect Allan Shope and a few more pics of the house (note the close-up of copper facade & pulls):
http://shopearchitect.com/?p=18

I definitely agree with him on this point:
"Although I appreciate   the availability of many materials, I like to   use the forms and  materials  that are indigenous to a region.   Vernacular forms and  materials  offer not only the environmental and   economic benefits of  less energy  consumption for transporting the   materials, but also a  distinctly regional  experience, with   architecture that is unique and  appropriate to its  surroundings."

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## nilespathfinder

gramps and i always done this around 6 to 8 trees and stacked and cut the wood in a circle. we'd have a fire pit in the center and a thatched roof with a smoke port in the middle. we'd stay warm and dry for days at a time, and eventually we made the walls two rows thick so the fire would dry out the inner wall so wed always have dry wood. very time consuming, extended stays shelter.

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## Willie

Ww, how do you keep the logs from rotting? Also would it have been better to let the logs sit in the weather to expand and shrink to their size after drying out then use them to build? Kind of like building a deck then you buy new wood and build your deck, only to have 1/2" cracks between the boards after they weather for a few months! BTW it looks awsome! Great work!


Willie

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## crashdive123

I don't want to speak for Wild Woman, but she truly does live off grid and doesn't get on here as much as we would all like.  In her OP if you look at the pictures, the cord wood is held in place with mortar.  She addresses the cracking issue with having a supply of perma-chink or log jam on hand.  With the cold climate that she lives in, rotting is probably a much slower process than it is where I am.

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## Willie

I tried veiwing the pictures on my phone and they were too small. I figured she lived somewhere cold but didnt know where, or what type of wood she used. I know some places people use wood that really dont rot.Here and back home its mostly pine. I moved here  from s. mississippi and im like you crash, between the humidity,ants and termites, those logs would be lucky to last a year.

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## Winter

Here in SE Ak, ceder rots very slowly.

Another thing you can do is dip the exterior ends of logs in diesel or used motor oil. A kind of "do it yourself" creosote process.

Speaking of which, a person could get a hold of a bunch of retired/replaced creosote telephone poles and never have to worry about termites and rot.

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## Rick

There aren't many creosote poles these days. Like everyone else we had to "green" up. Most are Penta treated today. If you notice the poles have a green hue to them. Those are penta treated. But even that is under attack. According to the EPA estimates continued soil exposure at the base of pentra treated poles puts two children at risk of cancer each day. My suggestion to the industry was find those two kids and give them a basketball or a job.

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## crashdive123

Not down south.  I have found termites many times in old poles and rail road cross timbers.  The Formosan Subterranean Termite (Coptotermes formosanus) has been spread to many areas of the country through the practice of selling used rail road cross timbers as landscape timbers.  For this reason, they many have been barred from use, depending on their origin.

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## Winter

> Not down south.  I have found termites many times in old poles and rail road cross timbers.  The Formosan Subterranean Termite (Coptotermes formosanus) has been spread to many areas of the country through the practice of selling used rail road cross timbers as landscape timbers.  For this reason, they many have been barred from use, depending on their origin.


Wow Crash. That blows my mind. Termites must sacrifice workers to remove the tar. That's amazing and worrisome.

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## crashdive123

They really are an amazing critter.  They also consume live trees.

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## Winter

Damn. 

Don't wanna derail the thread too much, but where did they come from and is there an effort to kill them?

Addon-the fire ant problem has been done a good kick by the Tx fires, at a huge human loss.

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## Rick

It's a Formosan termite. Formosan. For....mos....a.

Yeah, there are many reasons not to live in Florida. 

1. Gators
2. Lightening
3. Fire ants
4. Giant humongus Gambian rats (They come from Gambia, Winter)
5. killer bees
6. Monster cross breeding python anaconda thingies
7. Old people

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## crashdive123

When the native termites in our area (Eastern Subterranean Termites) swarm (during the day) a few hundred to a few thousand will swarm.  When Formosans swarm (in the evening) the fly toward lights (like many insects).  Baseball games have been cancelled because of swarms blocking the stadium lights.  Originally from Formosa (Taiwan).  Spread through commerce.  Probably introduced to the Continental US in the 50's or 60's.

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## Winter

Hahaha, and I thought it was just a bread.

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## Winter

They need to light the fields with zappers.

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## Rick

Now I guess I have to add gargantuan Formosan termite migrations to the list. We need to hold the whole state underwater for about 30 minutes and clean some of that crap up.

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## crashdive123

Doesn't work.  They are really bad in Louisiana.  The thoughts following the flooding from Katrina were that it would greatly reduce the termite populations.  Nope - didn't happen.  In fact, bids went out to remove all of the city sized debris piles that were formed during clean up in the aftermath.  Live termites were found in much of the debris.  I don't remember how early it was caught, but all of the trees/mulch had to be treated to prevent the spread.

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## Winter

Can you do that? Maybe if all us fat guys gather there for a campout....


ETA-Oh, Crash beat to the "post" button.

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## crashdive123

The good news Rick.......I don't think they're above 35 degrees North latitude in the US.

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## Rick

Hang on. I'm drawing a red line on my map at 35 degrees. That's pretty cold, though.

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## finallyME

So Rick, no lightning in Indiana?  And, I know for a fact, that there are old people in Indiana as well.  just sayin.....

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## WalkingTree

I really like this type of structure of Wild Woman's. Don't know if you'll be around here lately, but I wanted to ask a question - Provided some kind of water-shedding stucco is used (like a cementized cob finish), do you think a cob mixture would work well as chink here? (cob - clay, sand, and straw. Whole buildings are made with it.)

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## crashdive123

Walking Tree...........she left the forum in 2012 after getting upset at what she called lack of compassion shown by forum members following a report of a bear mauling (newspaper report - nobody here knew the victim).

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## WalkingTree

Well darn. Hope the victim did alright.

I kind of always liked this building method though. And the idea of cob as chink (just for trying to use native materials more)...but don't know if that idea is a good idea. Maybe somebody else here will give some input on this.

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