# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Budget AR-15: OFF the books and ON time

## natertot

Given the political climate, I decided to do a little trial. I wanted to see if I could acquire a completely serviceable AR-15 for under $500 with ZERO gov't intrusion in less than 30 days. I started this on Jan 2, so I have until Jan 31 to complete it. I do not include the cost of tools because they are not a part of the rifle and will be used for future builds. Here is what I came up with so far and links to the items I purchased. 

Polymer 80% commercial lower with lower parts kit and stock. $133.58 (Shipped and not counting cost of Jig)
http://www.polymer80.com/Polymer80--...it_p_1779.html

Thermold 20 round mag. $4.32 (Shipped, I actually ordered 5 but only need one to deem the rifle "serviceable"
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1163640.htm#1163650B

AR Stoner complete Upper w/ bolt carrier group and charging handle. $309.98 (Shipped)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/221...nato-16-barrel

Total so far is $447.88 and the only thing left that is needed is a sight and I still have $52.12 to accomplish that. I have shipping confirmation on all three orders so I should receive them in time to build within my time constraint. And if this all comes together, there is zero gov't intrusion. No serial number, no background check, no forms for records. Heck, not one penny was even spent in sales tax!!!!

I know there are several options to accomplish this. My items were selected because they were the best quality I could find that met the price budget and time constraints. Many places are out of stock or several weeks behind shipping, other wise this would be a whole lot easier.

Follow along to see how this trial progresses! Also, I have to give a little thanks to KyRat. In addition to the restraints I have placed on this, I have zero experience building AR's and he has given great background info.

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## hunter63

Sounds like a fun project......
I had asked a vendor at a show if tt was possible to build one for me....for under $500....not counting his labor.
Maybe he just didn't want to use others parts....but told me "No way".

Be waiting on your progress report.

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## natertot

> Sounds like a fun project......
> I had asked a vendor at a show if tt was possible to build one for me....for under $500....not counting his labor.
> Maybe he just didn't want to use others parts....but told me "No way".
> 
> Be waiting on your progress report.


It is really easy to do, per se. I found several AR kits (which included everything but a mag and a lower) for 350-400. A lower and a mag can easily be had for under $100. What made mine a bit more difficult to accomplish was the fact that I added the time and no gov't intrusion restraints. Many parts where out of stock, back ordered, or 4-8 weeks out on shipping. If you have $500 hanging around and take your time of 3-6 months, I have no doubt one can be built for under $500 with much better quality parts than what I have selected.

A few things that I have learned in just the research phase that anyone thinking of building an AR should know.

1) It is cheaper to build a complete lower than to buy a complete lower. The opposite is true for uppers. The only ones that were able to build uppers cheaper than buying them had bought parts over a long period of time when opportunities arose. The cheapest reported complete AR build I found was reported almost five years ago for $290. Found it on AR15.com
2) There are mil spec parts and commercial spec parts. It doesn't matter which you use for the lower as long as all the parts are the same spec. For uppers, all parts should be mil spec. Every where I turned, com spec upper parts were reported problematic and their was little to no difference in the price between the two.
3) The definition of a "complete upper" varies widely so use caution when buying. A complete upper usually falls into one of three types. The least completed complete upper is simply an upper with the dust cover and forward assist parts installed. The most common complete upper includes everything except the bolt carrier group and the charging handle. Then a complete upper can also mean absolutely everything including the bolt carrier group and charging handle. Be sure to know what you are getting, I almost made a wrong purchase a few times.
4) Bolt, bolt carrier, and bolt carrier group are all different things. The bolt is the bolt, much like any other gun. The bolt carrier does what it implies, it holds the bolt. A bolt carrier group is the assembled bolt and bolt carrier. This is crucial to know if you are looking to but this separate from the rest of the upper.

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## kyratshooter

There is also the situation where stripped lowers are cheaper than 80% finished lowers.  I found that really odd.  

There is also the difference between assembled upper kits and unassembled.  

That is a good price from Midway. I would order one but I simply can not justify another build at this point.  I'm running out of spots to bury them!

Did you buy the poly lower or the aluminum one.  The poly lower includes the jig so you will need no other specialized tools.

Yell when you are ready to drill out the lower.  There are a couple of tricks to know and a couple of problems to watch for.

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## natertot

Hey KyRat, you are right. Many times I did find stripped lowers cheaper. One place had aluminum blems for $30, but it went against my gov't intrusion restriction and by the time you pay transfer fees it is about the same as the poly 80%

Very true about the assembled vs unassembled uppers. My stumbling block with those was that I am not sure what all it takes tool and skill wise to put one together. That is why I looked for an assembled upper. My next AR build, I plan on scavenging parts pretty cheap over time to see how cheap one can be really be made. 

I bought the polymer lower, commercial spec, from polymer80. Same exact one I linked above. I will definitely give you a yell, building an AR is foreign territory for me, let alone completing the mill work on a lower.

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## canid

I've been eyeing that upper. It doesn't look great but the price can't seemingly be beat these days.

It is sad the lowers are often cheaper than the 80%s but then the finished lowers aren't flying off the shelves quite like the 80s are. It's definitely a sellers market, and it seems most of the usual suppliers have more than half of their non-ffl parts and assemblies sold out.

All the best on your build.

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## kyratshooter

My usual suppliers have been sold out completely since around noon last Tuesday.

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## natertot

Well, the first box came in today. It was from polymer 80. They packaged everything pretty well. The lower and jig kit came in its own box with all the other parts bagged individually. The bags are actually pretty think and everything was packaged really good.

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Closer inpection of the lower parts kit and stock assembly left me pretty impressed. I ordered the commercial spec kit, but the lower parts kit seems to be mil spec and even includes the trigger guard even though one is already molded in as a part of the lower receiver. The plastic of the grip and stock seem to be really good quality and have a more durable feel than many AR's I have held, including the military rifles. Even the metal parts seem very durable and have a wonderful finish to them.

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The lower receiver was also impressive. It is actually heavier than I expected and the finish is phenomenal. Also, the groves where the buffer tube screws into are very sharp and clean. It did not seem like I was holding a poly lower at all. Looking at the jig, it is made out of a cheaper plastic. It is also labeled "do not reuse" which kind of bums me out since I was hoping to use the same jig for future builds. I will determine at the end of the build if the jig really is not reusable. Per KyRat could weigh in on this thought as well.....

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The tools/bits also seem to be really good quality and more than capable of doing the job. Probably several jobs. They too are packaged really well and decently coated in oil.

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One thing worth mentioning is that the kit does not come with directions. Here is a link to all the directions for their products. Looks like I got some reading to do to figure this thing out!!!

http://www.polymer80.com/info

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## kyratshooter

Poly frames from all makers are all different externally even though the internal and external parts fit everything.

The polymer 80 is the best 80% poly lower I have dealt with.  It is more "beefy" on the outside so when you remove all the material from the inside to turn it into a real gun it is very substantial.  It has reinforcement ribs running along the edges that do not hinder any functioning but do add to the strength.  I have dealt with two different poly lower companies and the one you got is the best.

I said all that to preclude trying to use the jig on another company's product.  The jig will not cross brand lines due to the shapes of the molded trigger guards and the reinforcement ribs.

Besides, Polymer 80 sends you a new jig with each lower as well as new drill bits and a new end mill.  You always start a poly80 build with fresh tools.  You don't have to but you can.  That jig is not only the guide for the milling of the trigger/hammer group it also spots the holes in the side for the trigger, hammer pins and safety and it lines them up real well.  

The jig makes the finishing process much more neat and precise.  

In reality you also need either a good drill press vise or a cross slide vise to do a precise job. 

Besides, that jig is going to take some abuse before you finish.  You are going to be drilling right up to the edge of the guide and then running an end mill along the same surface to trim it up so you will not want to reuse it on another build.

When the company started they were using a two pour injection method and you could just remove all the plastic that was the wrong color and the build would work.  The ATF changed the rules and now require a single pour injection so all the material is the same color and it requires some care and precision to accomplish the milling, even though it is plastic.

The most amazing thing is when you finish and take it to the range expecting it to never work like an AR should, and you pull the trigger and it goes bang, and it continues to do that every time you pull the trigger!  Then you zero the sights and find that it shoots just as well as any other AR and better than most at a much higher price point!  And then after 500 rounds have gone through it you can find no signs of wear.

Everybody needs two or three of them!

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## Eastree

I did something similar.

A local gun store had a sale on stripped Anderson lowers for $50.

Then I took advantage of some Christmas sales, and ended up about where you did! I had a mil-spec lower, completed, and an A-2 upper, sans rear sight and mags, for right about $450. Actually,  you ended up better off than I did. But what a fun project!

I decided to go with a Magpul rear sight, and found some mags for about $7 each, pushing me just over the $500 mark.

And now I'm checking out those magazines you linked.

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## natertot

Thanks for the heads up about the jig, KyRat. after watching their video, I can see that one would not want to reuse the jig. I just thought they might be usable since poly80 does sell the jig separate. Doesn't make since to me as to why they do that, but..... oh well. I do have a drill press, cheapy from Harbor freight. I do have a drill press vise, but not an X Y vise which seems that it is necessary. I may have to check HF for that as well.

EastTree, I should be getting those mags in soon. As soon as I do, I will post pics and an initial review of them as well.

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## hunter63

Be careful on bit run out on the HF drill press....mine has a pretty good wobble till you touch material.

Just saying.

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## canid

You don't need an x/y table at all, it's just likely to be a tremendous help. luckily, the plastic doesn't require the rigidity of a milling machine, so this is one of the few applications where those drill press 'milling vises' are actually useful. These are those cheap x/y table drill press vises meant for precision drilling and passed off as a cheap way to turn a drill press into a milling machine. I would not want my hands to be guiding a vise near an endmill at sub-optimal speeds if it should grab. not only might it try to throw the work, but it might chew through and catch your flesh. It should be enough to put you off the project, but do please be careful.

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## kyratshooter

What I have been doing is setting the depth stop and using standard drill bits to hog out the majority of the plastic.

I then go back with the end mill and finish up. 

If you try to do all the stock removal with the end mill bit it makes a big mess and does not clear the scrap well.  End mills are not the greatest for heavy plunge milling on this stock. 

The real trick with home workshop gear is getting and keeping the lower square in the vise and not allowing anything to come lose and ruin the project at the last minute. 

The only "critical" measurement you have to deal with is the thickness of the floor in the trigger control area.  You have to get enough clearance for the trigger and hammer to rotate while keeping about .050" of material for strength because that floor is what supports your hammer spring and trigger return spring.  

I did my first one in about 6 hours split over two days while taking triple measurements, double checking everything I did and stopping to contemplate the nature of the universe a number of times.  If I had been doing two or three it would have taken very little longer after I got the vise squared, the depth stops set and first unit set up.  

There are kids on You-tube making these things from start to finish with dermal tools.  The drill press and vise are just icing on the cake.

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## finallyME

I am interested in hearing how your upper works.  I have been eyeing the PSA rifle kits, but right after San Bernadino, they sold out.  My last build, last February, I got a BCM upper with included bolt carrier and bolt for about $450.  I got a stripped Anderson lower for $50 at the local shop (no FFL transfer because they were selling it and they are an FFL).  I then bought a PSA lower parts kit.  
One thing I have been eyeing is this thing. http://www.80percentarms.com/collect...ar-15-easy-jig  It costs $150, but I can reuse it and it doesn't require a drill press.  It is set up for a router.
Brownells sells the Anderson Machine 80% for the same price as the completed lower. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod75038.aspx  But at least they sell one in the $50 range.  I am still not convinced on the polymer lowers, but I am willing to listen to those who use them a lot.

Right now a lot of stuff is out of stock.  Obama sure does a great job at selling guns.  If I was a gun manufacturer, I would probably contribute to his campaign.

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## kyratshooter

Yep, the value of my FFL purchased rifles has gone up a couple of hundred $$ already.  

It appears that finished guns are not selling out as rapidly as after announcements in the past.  Probably because there was plenty of advance warning on this one and people bought like crazy during the Holidays.  

It is the 80% market and folks building their own stripped lowers that is wiping out the kits and parts market. 

As for the poly material???  

I never though a Glock would last for 20 years but there are people still shooting their Generation 1 G17 pistols and they are running strong.  And I know some folks that have thousands of rounds through HiPoint pistols and carbines and they take more abuse directly to the polymer frame than an AR will ever get.

The only part of the poly lower I have been concerned with is the threaded section where the buffer tube assembly attaches.  That seems a weak point to me but I might be wrong and find that while an aluminum lower would crack with abuse at that point a poly lower might just flex and continue life.  

Several of the makers have some serious abuse videos available.  In the videos they are treating them like they were AKs and they keep in ticking.

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## natertot

Kyrat, poly 80 actually thickened up the ring that the buffer tube screws into. That is a very notable feature on their phoenix 2 over phoenix 1.

Looking at tracking info, I should have the upper and mags by Thursday. I will probably start milling next week.  It seems pretty simple as long as one doesn't rush and measures multiple times.

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## kyratshooter

I have an order coming from up your way to down here and the tracking says it is being delayed by weather, and we have more weather coming in tonight and tomorrow.  

I would expect to wait another day for delivery.  

However they might get to you suburban types before they run out here to the woods and deliver to me in the snow.

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## finallyME

I was looking at poly80 and it looks like they might have an 80% lower for a Glock.  That would be cool.

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## natertot

> I was looking at poly80 and it looks like they might have an 80% lower for a Glock.  That would be cool.


They have a pistol frame in development which can be preordered. It is designed to take a combination of Glock, S&W, and Sig parts to make 9mm, 40 and .357sig. Read more about it here http://www.polymer80.com/Pistol-Frame_ep_60.html

Thanks for the heads up, KyRat. I checked the tracking and all seems well, but a couple day delay doesn't effect anything. Hope you are doing okay down there, safe from the elements!

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## RobertTheTexan

> Given the political climate, I decided to do a little trial. I wanted to see if I could acquire a completely serviceable AR-15 for under $500 with ZERO gov't intrusion in less than 30 days. I started this on Jan 2, so I have until Jan 31 to complete it. I do not include the cost of tools because they are not a part of the rifle and will be used for future builds. Here is what I came up with so far and links to the items I purchased. 
> 
> 
> Total so far is $447.88 and the only thing left that is needed is a sight and I still have $52.12 to accomplish that. I have shipping confirmation on all three orders so I should receive them in time to build within my time constraint. And if this all comes together, there is zero gov't intrusion. No serial number, no background check, no forms for records. Heck, not one penny was even spent in sales tax!!!!
> 
> I know there are several options to accomplish this. My items were selected because they were the best quality I could find that met the price budget and time constraints. Many places are out of stock or several weeks behind shipping, other wise this would be a whole lot easier.
> 
> Follow along to see how this trial progresses! Also, I have to give a little thanks to KyRat. In addition to the restraints I have placed on this, I have zero experience building AR's and he has given great background info.


Great project!  I know a guy who did a similar project, but his focus was on staying completely off the books - he didn't want even a CC transaction for an item at a store, online or not.  (This guy is pretty paranoid.)  So his challenges have been a bit different. He went the 80% route, but in 7075 and went milspec.  Apparently this guy has access to a milling machine.  I imagine it is a very nerve racking process because the old adage, "One oh crap!! will negate all the attaboys you gave yourself previously." Or something like that.  One of the trade-offs he's had to make has been availability over price. In some cases he was able to buy a used part for a much lower price than that part was brand new, but even at the "used price" the specific part was more expensive than something he could have bought online or at his LGS.  But the trade off will be having a firearm without any traceability, which I believe was his goal.  So while his build wasn't focused on a specific price point, he did manage to build for right at $500. Now there's a caveat, he has a good friend that donated a mil-spec trigger and he did use some magpul sights he got for his birthday.  Even so, with an LPK + trigger, your looking at $89 vs. probably $55-60 he paid for the LPK, and he probably could have slapped some sights on for $50 bucks.  I believe he is planning on putting a red dot on it.  Something from Primary Arms or maybe the low end Aim Point.  Not sure.
I think you have done a great service to the forum and while my friend almost inspired me to give it a go, I think I will try with that polymer80.  Thank you for posting!!

Oh as a side comment, one area of savings can be on the upper and the forward assist.  In the Army we use the forward assist because it's part of SPORTS which is a remedial action process.  However most AR enthusiasts will say the forward assist isn't really needed.  I think we get it because either we are a) Used to it being there. b) It makes it look more "military" or c) We just don't know better.

Oh if you aren't familiar with SPORTS, it is a good remedial action for a FTF.  I still use it although as someone mentioned above, it's more muscle memory than anything else.  :Smile: 

S - Slap the magazine
P - Pull the charging handle to the rear
O - Observe the ejected round
R - Release the charging handle
T - Tap the FORWARD ASSIST
S - Squuuuuuueeeeeeeze the trigger

Seems like a lot of steps, but I do it without really thinking about it and it takes right at 2 seconds to perform SPORTS.  Might want to practice it and include it as part of a remedial action.  There's a lot to be said for training muscle memory, whether dry firing with your pistol every night, or practicing SPORTS.

Good luck and thank you again for your post.  I look forward to pictures of the finished build and also a range report. :-)

R.

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## Fixit

Saw this today
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...NjYzMzgyMjA3S0

Looks like $75 plus shipping.

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## canid

Or, for the truly adventurous.

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## finallyME

I don't know if I am ready for the 80% polymer lower plunge.  But I have been researching other polymer lowers...specifically Tennessee Arms. http://www.tnarmsco.com/hybrid-polym...free-shipping/  I like that they have brass inserts, and use a filled nylon.  The weight is also the best out there.  I have been dreaming of a supper light build and will probably use a polymer lower for that.

I have looked at the 0% lowers that canid linked to.  That project is for when I buy myself a nice milling machine.  :Smile:   And, of course, there are tutorials online on how to mill that out.

If you really want to be off the radar, you can always have your friends buy all the non-NFA stuff online and then pay them with a little extra.  I am sure there are other ways to do it for the non-NFA stuff without leaving a trail back to you.  Generally, time will erase most of the trail.  Retailers just don't keep records that long, especially on an item that is not regulated.

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## hunter63

I don' no nutin' 'bout no evil black rifles......

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## natertot

Good info Robert. My purchases were made with a visa gift card which was given to me as a gift and I added to it with cash. That is a good way to make online purchases without cc info going back to you. I did set a price point, but I also set a time point. I am sure if I really took time, I could build one off the books and even cheaper. Giving a 30 day window with a low price point has really negated some feasible options in this build, but hey, there's always the next build..... right?

I am familiar with SPORTS. It is basically how to do a "tap-rack" on the AR/M16 platform do to it's overly complicated design, and it works. You are right, that the forward assist and the dust cover is not essential and I did look at some "slick sides", but what I purchased was cheaper and available within the parameters of this build. The fact that my upper has them was not a basis for the purchasing decision.

FixIt, yes, Brownells has them, but they are cheaper from the manucaturer. Especially if you get the entire kit. Even the Mil-Spec version was only $40 more than the com-spec I went with. Seems like comm vs mil specs doesn't matter on lowers so I saved $40. From what I can tell, Mil spec upper with M4 feed ramps is practically a requirement so I did look for that. 

I did receive the Upper and magazines today. More pics and initial review to come!

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## natertot

Here are some pics of the upper. It seems pretty nice, but nothing out of the ordinary for a standard complete M4 Upper. One thing that did surprise me is that the charging handle is actually metal. I have seen a few plastic ones around and figured that I would receive one given the price point. There is nothing I can find on this that I would really call "cheap" from what I can tell. It was also packaged pretty well and covered good in oil.

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## natertot

Also in was the mags. They seem to be made of a pretty good polymer and the followers seem like they will keep the bullets in line for feeding. The springs also have quite a bit of resistance to them, so I do not see them being an issue for feeding purposes. 

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And of course I was curious as to how they fit in the receiver. They slide in no problem and the notch lines up to where the magazine catch will be on the receiver. No issues there. I did notice that the mags do not fall freely from the receiver, however. Looking inside the mag well, I notice that all four corners are "stepped up" a few times. I may run a file over the top of these steps to see if I can get the mags to free fall. Other than that, no disappointments!

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## canid

Looking good. Somebody's actually shipping those plastic charging handles for anything other than the .22lr guns? Ain't gonna work seems unacceptable at any price.

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## natertot

> Looking good. Somebody's actually shipping those plastic charging handles for anything other than the .22lr guns? Ain't gonna work seems unacceptable at any price.


Yep, they are. Really low end stuff, although no reports of one actually breaking that I could find.

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## finallyME

Is the barrel chrome lined?  Is the BCG chrome lined?  Thanks.

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## natertot

> Is the barrel chrome lined?  Is the BCG chrome lined?  Thanks.


Barrel is chrome moly and the bolt carrier is standard mil-spec. Per Midways website:

Technical Information
•Upper Receiver: A3 Flat-Top
•Barrel Length: 16"
•Barrel Contour: Government
•Barrel Material: 4140 Chrome Moly Matte
•Muzzle Thread Pattern: 1/2"-28
•Chrome Lined: No
•Barrel Finish: Chrome Moly Matte
•Twist Rate: 1 in 9"
•Chamber: 5.56x45mm NATO
•M4 Feed Ramps: Yes
•Muzzle Device: A2 Flash Hider
•Gas System Length: Carbine
•Gas Block Diameter: 0.750"
•Handguard: 2-Piece M4 Style
•Sights: A2 Fixed Front
•Bolt Carrier Assembly Included: Yes
•Bolt Carrier Type: Mil-Spec

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## kyratshooter

The next time you buy magazines check out PSA.

The have 30 round aluminum on sale most of the time.  I have been using them for some time and they are good.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/catal.../view/id/1239/

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## Rick

If only you had posted that link 20 magazines ago....

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## natertot

Hahaha. That's a good one Rick!

Those are a good deal KyRat and I do plan to get some in the future as well. But I also wanted some 20 rounders because 30 rounders make prone shooting a little more difficult. Price per bullet holding, mine are still cheaper at $4.32 each and that included shipping. I only bought five and figured if they were horrible, I could sell them for more than I paid for at a gun show. I know they look cheap (they are) but they do seem rather strong and more than capable. Like I said, the only issue was free falling from the mag well.

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## finallyME

Just don't buy promags.  I only bought 3, but all of them are bad.  They don't free fall.  They sometimes won't let the bolt release forward.  And, one of them is very finicky and only works when it wants to.  I have had only good luck with pmags.  I do need to get some aluminum mags.  They fit better in some of the mag pouches that I have.

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## kyratshooter

The free fall thing is a matter or personal preference and shooting style.  It is more important to match shooters than in the real world.

"Back in the day" I was trained to never shoot the gun dry, therefore almost every magazine removed from the gun had rounds left and you did not dump them on the ground and leave them.  You changed mags as you had a chance and cover, not when you ran dry, and you topped up mags when time and cover allowed.

Therefore, my hands are on the mag when it is ejected and the mags never free fall.  

I am the same way with pistols and I have probably lost a couple of matches due to my habits.

Rick, you can not imagine how much that picture looks like an 8 year old Natertot.

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## Billofthenorth

Now to see how the function and durability is for the long term or what parts might need to be swapped that perform better.

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## kyratshooter

Depends on the definition of "perform better".

If you are shooting matches then probably nothing on our budget rifles will be acceptable.

If you are shooting 5k round in a weekend they will probably make it for one weekend and the start of a second.

If you want an AR to mess around with plink and hunt some and shoot that 5k rounds over a 5 year stretch it may last you a lifetime, even with a plastic charging handle.

And if it breaks you can buy another for $400 and you have not broken the bank.

I am sitting on one I put together for $325!  

I changed the scope out and rezeroed it last week.  That little PSA upper on a $25 plastic lower shot inside 2 inches.  

If it tweeks on me after a couple of thousand rounds I am going to strip the parts and build another.  

These are lego systems and every part but the one that broke is reusable, so you have not ruined your rifle, you have ruined a part.

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## natertot

Exactly my thoughts, Kyrat. That is why this is a budget build and not a $1000 plus build.

I have all the parts. I now need to catch my breath to mil out the receiver and put the thing together. Hopefully in a few weeks, life willing!

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