# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  12/21/2012. . .Fact or Fiction. . . .

## Nativedude

A really good friend of mine (more like a brother), whom is ret. military (Spec Ops) flew up and spent the last 3 weeks with me. He left this morning. . . .Anyway, we had some very interesting and in-depth conversations about 12/21/2012. Now I hadn't heard anything about this until he brought it to my attention.

He's coming back this spring and we are going to build a bunker in an undisclosed location. It will be stocked with enough supplies for us to sustain for 2 years.

He stated to me with authority, and some facts (on paper), that there will be an alignment of the Earth and Sun which will cause solar flares that will damage and shut down the electrical grid all-around the world.

With such an occurrence, mankind is facing an EOTWAWKI scenario. There are gov't entities that are building and stockpiling HUGE amounts of food, water, clothing, hygiene products, etc. And they (the gov't) are building HUGE underground bunkers that can house up to 2,000 people. The "elite" as it was written in the paperwork he showed me will be housed in these bumnkers, so at the proper time, mankind will be able to *"re-establish the population at a more controlled number"*. He also had photos of these bunkers being built. They are massive--virtual cities underground.

So, here is what I am wondering:

*Do any of you believe that 12/21/2012 will happen? Or, do you think it's like the Y2K scare?*

Now, before you answer, let me tell you this. My buddy contacted a friend of his at NASA. He confirmed (I was listening to the conversation) that they (NASA) have documented proof that these solar flares will occur on 12/21/2012.

So, with that said; do you believe?

*If 'YES' why?*

*If 'NO' why?*

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## Mtnman Mike

I don't want to say yes or no for I do not know much about 2012.  I do not reject things just because they sound ridiculous or impossible but I do not believe everything and anything either.    Less than two years and I guess we shall find out.

Also I try to be prepared for Anything and that includes even unlikely scenarios.

I want to know more about these bunkers.    I have heard about the government's vast underground fancy bunkers in Virginia and some other areas.   Need more info if available.

And Nativedude, hope you take some pics while building your bunker.   It just might help inspire others.    

The pics I have put up on 3 different sites have inspired some.   Actually many who have posted and emailed me and said they also are going to build underground.    Although many want to just get shipping containers etc.   Which might work and would be much faster than the way I built.    Which has taken me building off and on for over ten years and I still would like to go many more feet into my mountainside. 

Pics of my bunker and retreat on my homepage and here }  
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=9812

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## your_comforting_company

there are a couple threads about the 2012 doomsday. What I would like to say, is that this whole theory is based on the idea that the mayan calendar ends on that day. I don't believe anything bad will happen for the simple fact that our calendar ends every year on Dec 31 and noone freaks out. The mayan cyclic year was based on the 46,000 earth year trip around the galaxy. on that day we will supposedly be back at the beginning of the trip around the milky way.
Without seeing the proof from nasa myself, I must say I'm in disbelief that anything bad will happen. That is NOT to say I'm not making preparations, I just don't think the preparations I'm making will be necessary  :Wink: 
There are solar flares all the time, year round. The ionosphere has been weakened somewhat over the years and if you talk to any HAM radio operators they will tell you that some days are better than most because of the "static" or ions floating around. some days you can bounce a signal all the way around the world.. some days you can't call out of your neighborhood.
Nasa and another site that I can't think of atm both monitor ionic activity in the atmosphere and days that solar flares will be occuring. I'll try to find more info on that to post.

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## Rick

It's another Y2K as far as I'm concerned. First, the middle of the galaxy thingy is an annual event. 

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html

It's not the end of the Mayan calendar but the end of that phase. Sort of like the end of our 2009 calendar. 2010 and a lot more years follow. Same with the Mayan calendar. 

Here are some threads on it. 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...highlight=2012

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...highlight=2012

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...highlight=2012

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## Pal334

It is a Y2K type situation. The event (s) are a normal part of nature and occur to various degress all the time. The number of people that hang their hats on the end of the Mayan calendar are counter balanced by an equal number of people that think the opposite. You also may want to think of this: NASA also has "documented evidence" that solar flares are occuring on an almost daily basis. As far as should we build bunkers etc, do extrodinary preparations, I guess that is dependent on your comfort level. 
I personally am going to have a huge Christmas party on the 25th of that year.

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## Rick

Oh, I completely missed the solar flare thingy. Did the NASA guy also confirm that solar flares occur on a 11 year cycle? 2010 begins the new phase of this solar cycle and it is expected to peak in 2013. It does so every 11 years + or -. 

Here's NASA's prediction on solar activity. Just scroll down. 

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2...prediction.htm

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## 2dumb2kwit

I think a lot of stuff will line up, solar flares may be an issue, and yes...a few profits say it will happen, but...I don't think anything is going to kill the planet.

 However, it is supposed to be a time of increased solar activity, and people say that our elec. grid is getting in bad shape, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of problems, there.

 Also you have a lot of people expecting it, so the least little thing could send people over the edge, with panic, and turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy. I mean think about it.....all that stuff in the galaxy lined up. People get crazy when it's a full moon! :Innocent:

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## Sourdough

Plan for the worst, pray for the best.

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## Batch

The Mayans don't seem all that concerned...

It's just another day like Y2K.

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## gryffynklm

> I think a lot of stuff will line up, solar flares may be an issue, and yes...a few profits say it will happen, but...I don't think anything is going to kill the planet.
> 
>  However, it is supposed to be a time of increased solar activity, and people say that our elec. grid is getting in bad shape, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of problems, there.
> 
>  Also you have a lot of people expecting it, so the least little thing could send people over the edge, with panic, and turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy. I mean think about it.....all that stuff in the galaxy lined up. People get crazy when it's a full moon!


If I have a fear about 2012, that would be it. Zombies thinking their preparation method would be to take yours. Thats another reason that working with or finding my community is important to me.

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## Winnie

Personally I think it's a load of old bunkum. I look at it this way, I'm prepared for a short-term hiccup, and have sufficient skills to improve my lot long-term. TEOTWAKI is just that, so the liklihood of anyone surviving is remote to zero and I'm not sure I'd want to anyway.

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## Sourdough

You will be closer to your death in two years........Enjoy today, tomorrows are always maybes.

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## Ole WV Coot

I get the feeling that S. WV & E. KY aren't in their "elite" group, therefore I chose to ignore it and deal with sunspots as I did last time. They did cause CB radios to go wild, don't think I have one now. If I am around I'll sit on the porch and watch the fireworks.

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## Sourdough

> If I am around I'll sit on the porch and watch the fireworks.




With your new "Stag" Friend........? :Smile:

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## hunter63

What year is the last year of the pres'es rein?
Party on 12/20/12 JIC.

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## Rick

The sunspots are expected to be milder in this cycle. I've dropped back to a 40 sunscreen. I'm keeping a 65 around just in case.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> What year is the last year of the pres'es rein?
> Party on 12/20/12 JIC.


 LOL...I've said before, that the November 2012 elections are going to start something, and it will be coming to a boil around 12-21-12.

 Everybody laughed at me. :Innocent:

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## rwc1969

I'm sure the governments of the world are keeping better track and preparing for things like this better than any of us. Is this scenario possible? Yes! Do I think it will happpen on that exact date? No! Am i going to do anything different than I have been? Well ya, since visting this site among others I am working toward preparing myself for the inevitable, but it has nothing to do with 2012.

I think that man will cause the next great die off. Do I have proof? No! It's just what I believe.

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## wareagle69

if i do remeber correctly the alignment of the universe happened in the 70's also and we are still here, now can solar storms interupt things sure they can but i prep for any scenario, could happen tommorrow could happen next year could happen 12 21 12 could happen when i'm 90(course i'll be screwed then)
it is what it is

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## madmantrapper

> I think that man will cause the next great die off. Do I have proof? No! It's just what I believe.


I couldn't agree with you more. I'll be preparing to bend over and kiss my a$$ good bye, thats about it.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

I was watching some program about this last week or maybe the week before, anyway. They talked about this alignment thing of the planets. I think their might be a black hole involved somehow...but anyway from that program, they said that this particular alignment only occurs every so many thousand of years. I don't think it is the same as what happened in the 70's.

This program also said that the intensity of the solar flares have basically the potential intensity to fry the satellites.(So much for GPS) Not just cause interference,but fry them. Totally useless, unable to be repaired.

 Having said that,I will now say, that personally I don't know. On the other hand we never know about Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Tornadoes, and such. Still we prepare for "eventualities", you know "just in case". Our Preps may sit for years unused for their intended purpose. Yet Still we Prep. How many times have we said here; Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

The only "Prep" we can really do if this Solar flare thing does happen. Is to Rely less on those technology devices and prepare with basics in Navigational aids - Compass as opposed to GPS. Oh and stock up with sunscreen.

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## Rick

*Q:* Could a phenomena occur where planets align in a way that impacts Earth?
*A:* There are no planetary alignments in the next few decades, Earth will not cross the galactic plane in 2012, and even if these alignments were to occur, their effects on the Earth would be negligible. Each December the Earth and sun align with the approximate center of the Milky Way Galaxy but that is an annual event of no consequence.

From the link I posted above.

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## Batch

I figure if a huge solar flare fries my microwave I will still be able to pop the popcorn with the end of days solar rays. So, I think I got this one covered. :Banana:

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## Rick

And, if the earth bursts into flame just find a lake and drop your beer in. The evaporation should keep the beer cool. For a while anyway.

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## Pal334

> And, if the earth bursts into flame just find a lake and drop your beer in. The evaporation should keep the beer cool. For a while anyway.


Thats the best advice I have heard on this subject so far :clap:

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## trax

I love this debate about the end of the world. Near as I can tell, either something so catastrophic is going to happen that is of such epic proportions that there's nothing I can do to survive it, we're all doomed. So, nothing I can do, ok, I'll do nothing

Flip side of the coin is, there's nothing going to happen so there's nothing I need to do.

I like the way this is panning out, I'm really good at doing nothing.

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## Rick

I think the only preps I need to make are: 

1. A lawn chair to watch the event.
2. Sunglasses..just in case it involves bright light.
3. Sunscreen...see number 2
4. A cool drink

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## trax

> I think the only preps I need to make are: 
> 
> 1. A lawn chair to watch the event.
> 2. Sunglasses..just in case it involves bright light.
> 3. Sunscreen...see number 2
> 4. A cool drink


Rick, the only point I might take exception to is  number 4, how about changing that to copious amounts of cool beverages and I think it's probably not too early to start planning the party.

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## Rick

There just better not be sweating involved. I get pretty surly if I start sweating. Copious amounts it will be just as soon as I look that word up.

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## trax

> There just better not be sweating involved. I get pretty surly if I start sweating. Copious amounts it will be just as soon as I look that word up.


Main Entry: co·pi·ous 
Pronunciation: \ˈkō-pē-əs\
Function: adjective 
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin copiosus, from copia abundance, from co- + ops wealth  more at opulent
Date: 14th century
1 a : yielding something abundantly <a copious harvest> <copious springs> b : plentiful in number <copious references to other writers>
2 a : full of thought, information, or matter b : profuse or exuberant in words, expression, or style <a copious talker>
3 : present in large quantity : taking place on a large scale <copious weeping> <copious food and drink>

at yer service.

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## Rick

Bring on the copious!!!!!!!

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## Timber_wolf

This whole galactic line-up business always makes me laugh. the celestial bodies in our solar system line up every so often and nothing bad has ever happened from it, why these people think that lining up with some far-flung distant point in the universe is going to destroy the Earth is beyond me. Sounds too much like astrology to me! 
"Oooh, Mars was in retrograde the day you were born so that makes you obese!"

[rant]
If the super massive black hole at the center of the Milky Way was going to eat any planets it would be the ones CLOSEST to it, not our humble little rock at the end of one of the spiral arms.
[/rant]

Sorry, the doomsayers always get on my nerves trying to make up "scientific proof" of their lunacy.



Timber Wolf

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## Rick

Looks like someone has been in the Romulan Ale again.

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## Stony

another big hype to make money of fools.
as you know: a fool and his money part soon!

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## BENESSE

> another big hype to make money of fools.
> *as you know: a fool and his money* part soon!


*...are a girl's best friend.*

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## robinray649

Well for what it is worth my 2 cents is I am not worried about it.  I would like to point out something I have been seeing a lot of and that is the Y2K thing.  I have been in IT for 35 years.  I was one of those that did the 2 byte year thing.  Have been a contractor for 25 of those 35 years and have worked in many different types of industries subh as oil, banking, transportation, health,  and communications.  Had most in the world had not have spent billions to correct the problem with the date there would have been problems and some very serious.  It is easy to make fun of it now as much ado about nothing.  Just remember the billions spent and only God knows how many man-hours to correct this problem.  

Will 2012 be a problem?  I don't know.  I prepare for what I can and let the Lord worry about the rest.  The only thing that really concerns me about 2012 is the power grid.  I am sorry to say at 60 I am very much a creature that likes his comforts.  I like being cool in summer and warm in winter.  As for the rest of 2012 well I don't really see a way to prepare so I don't worry about it.  If there is a extinction level event, whatever it is, I figure I will be in good company and again something to let the Lord deal with.

anyway just my 2 cents

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## oly

> we never know about Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Tornadoes, and such. Still we prepare for "eventualities", you know "just in case". Our Preps may sit for years unused for their intended purpose. Yet Still we Prep. How many times have we said here; Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.


That's what I prep. for. Hopefully I can get to my gear or not get buried in the aftermath but then again if it happens it happens and if it time to die then its time to die. I just don't wont to rely or mooch of uncle for not doing what I should have been doing in the first place when it happens (as they keep saying not if but when).

The only alignment that scares me is if 2Dumb meets up with 2 Smart... Nothing good will come of it!!! Nope, not good at all... TEOTWAWKI... Yeap, definitely not good at all.

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## Ted

I couldn't care less, I know I can live without modern conveiniences,or socilizing for that matter! 

I also feel that the modern technological world has a azz whooping coming from Mama!  

I also know nothing last forever! No matter how hard I try, I will surely on day die!

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## Rick

robinray - How about coding your way over to our Introduction section and tells a bit about yourself? 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=7813

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## Scoobywan

I have proof that the whole 12/21/2012 will occur... I have a document here that says it will happen between 12/20/2012 and 12/22/2012.

Seriously though I think it's all a bunch of hype,  if you look at the long count calendar it's the end of the 13th baktun (1 baktun = approx. 394.3 years), even the people that have spent their life studying the mayan calendar are torn between if that means the calendar resets or if we just start the 14th baktun.  Another thing that people don't normally talk about is the fact of piktuns representing either 14 or 20 baktuns (depending on who you ask).  And as for getting freaked out about the "alignment between the galactic and solar planes", just know it's not a coincidence, the mayan calendar is based on cycles of the stars and planets, like 1 tun = approx. 360 days which would be approx. 1 solar year - 5 days (there was a 5 day transitional period).

What I am scared about when it comes to the 2012 things is all the misinformed people of the world panicking and killing each other over a loaf of bread.  People fear things they don't understand, there are a lot of people that don't understand much, which means there are a lot of scared people running around this planet. :P

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## crashdive123

The real bummer is that I tried to update the forum calender for the big party that we're going to have 12/21/2012, but it only goes up to 12/31/2010.  I wonder if Chris knows something that he's not telling us.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> The only alignment that scares me is if 2Dumb meets up with 2 Smart... Nothing good will come of it!!! Nope, not good at all... TEOTWAWKI... Yeap, definitely not good at all.


 Yeah....that would be kinda like matter and anti-matter. :Tongue Smilie:

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## Rick

Or does matter and doesn't matter, whichever.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Or does matter and doesn't matter, whichever.


 That would be me and Ken, meeting. :Innocent:  LOL

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## Excalibur

will the world end in 2012, most likely not.  could something happen in 2012 that could make life difficult, possibly.  my money is on being prepared with a good E&E plan.  it could happen aug 15 2011 or dec 21 2012 or may 5 2045.  ill be ready for what i can be and watch the rest with a cold beer

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## crashdive123

Beer!

I knew I was forgetting something.

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## welderguy

hummm wonder if you can get freez dried beer

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## seeker1968

> A really good friend of mine (more like a brother), whom is ret. military (Spec Ops) flew up and spent the last 3 weeks with me. He left this morning. . . .Anyway, we had some very interesting and in-depth conversations about 12/21/2012. Now I hadn't heard anything about this until he brought it to my attention.
> 
> He's coming back this spring and we are going to build a bunker in an undisclosed location. It will be stocked with enough supplies for us to sustain for 2 years.
> 
> He stated to me with authority, and some facts (on paper), that there will be an alignment of the Earth and Sun which will cause solar flares that will damage and shut down the electrical grid all-around the world.
> 
> With such an occurrence, mankind is facing an EOTWAWKI scenario. There are gov't entities that are building and stockpiling HUGE amounts of food, water, clothing, hygiene products, etc. And they (the gov't) are building HUGE underground bunkers that can house up to 2,000 people. The "elite" as it was written in the paperwork he showed me will be housed in these bumnkers, so at the proper time, mankind will be able to *"re-establish the population at a more controlled number"*. He also had photos of these bunkers being built. They are massive--virtual cities underground.
> 
> So, here is what I am wondering:
> ...


NO -

We can't predict the weather 3 days in advance on earth with any regularity let alone the sun's weather (that is what solar flares are, the suns weather) so what makes you think anyone can predict such a thing to such a degree of accuracy (to the day). 

You might say that it has to do with the alignment of our solar system with the galactic center, but given the vast distance our system from the center (about 30,000 light years) we already will have aligned on that date about 30,000 years ago. This is just my opinion. I think it is just more y2k crap. 

BTW the Mayans who supposedly predicted all this stuff used to play kick ball with human heads. Just think about this before you read too much into the prediction.

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## Ken

How appropriate.  Nativedude's thread, with the words *"Fact or Fiction." *

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## Rick

Hey! It's all true. But it will happen 450 miles from the nearest civilization or in Detroit. I'm not sure which.

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## justin_baker

On 12/20/2012 i will take a "trip" into the woods for the night. You know, just in case...

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## Ken

> You know, just in case...


Yes.  He joined the Forums on 02-12-2010.   :Innocent:

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## wareagle69

> How appropriate.  Nativedude's thread, with the words *"Fact or Fiction." *


my thoughts exactly

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## wareagle69

actuall i think that since he has been exposed as a fraud his threads and posts should be deleted so as to prevent any noob from getting any misinformation,once again his posts are not ones that i would have read so maybe he does have some good advice, you guys might know better

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## Justin Case

> NO -
> 
> We can't predict the weather 3 days in advance on earth with any regularity let alone the sun's weather (that is what solar flares are, the suns weather) so what makes you think anyone can predict such a thing to such a degree of accuracy (to the day). 
> 
> You might say that it has to do with the alignment of our solar system with the galactic center, but given the vast distance our system from the center (about 30,000 light years) we already will have aligned on that date about 30,000 years ago. This is just my opinion. I think it is just more y2k crap. 
> 
> BTW the Mayans who supposedly predicted all this stuff used to play kick ball with human heads. Just think about this before you read too much into the prediction.


Yes,  I agree  :Smile:

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## Beo

I don't believe in any of that crap, if the world ends then once again man screwed the pooch and ended it for us, The Mayan calendar... I don't take to heart advice or scenarios on end of the world stuff, live life now and have a good time.

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## Rick

I hate to tell you this but my calendar ends on Dec. 31, 2010. I'm getting out of Dodge before Christmas!!!!!!

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## Batch

> actuall i think that since he has been exposed as a fraud his threads and posts should be deleted so as to prevent any noob from getting any misinformation,once again his posts are not ones that i would have read so maybe he does have some good advice, you guys might know better


Deleting posts or threads really sucks. If the information given is bad correct it. In the thread and contextually!

The threads that have had posts deleted make no sense at all.

Unless the post does damage to a person directly, such as posting a persons personal information. Then we should discredit the info or let it stand. JMO

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## Mischief

I'm planing on selling 12/21/2012 survival insurance for 1k. I will insure your survival for the day of 12/21/2012. 
Will need a Lawyer to help with all the buzz words,Ken you interested?
Mischief

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## kyratshooter

> hummm wonder if you can get freez dried beer


I want to know about the freeze dried beer!  Something good should come out of all this prepping.

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## rebel

Two years to go.

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## Rick

No wonder I was feeling a bit weak.

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## Pal334

I kind of miss the little guy, he was good for getting the blood pressure up on my off days  :Smile:

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## Justin Case

I marked it on the calendar,  don't want to miss the end of the world !

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

Well I have it on good authority from a guy who knows a guy, who knows another guy, that is the third cousin of the sister in Law of the worlds greatest authority on the Mayan calendar..... All previous calculations were in grievous error!!! It actually occurs tonight!!!
Is this a good enough excuse to open Christmas presents early? My boys are backing me on this 100%! Now..... if we can just convince Mom..... :W00t: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUT4T...eature=related

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## Winnie

> Well I have it on good authority from a guy who knows a guy, who knows another guy, that is the third cousin of the sister in Law of the worlds greatest authority on the Mayan calendar..... All previous calculations were in grievous error!!! It actually occurs tonight!!!
> Is this a good enough excuse to open Christmas presents early? My boys are backing me on this 100%!* Now..... if we can just convince Mom.....*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUT4T...eature=related


Speaking as a Mum, Poco, the end of the world is no excuse for early present opening! :burst:

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## Justin Case

Take no chances !  Open NOW !

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## tacticalguy

I'd rather be prepared if it does happen. If it doesn't thats good.

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## equus

> Speaking as a Mum, Poco, the end of the world is no excuse for early present opening!


Oh Hun you do and your dead man tonight.....I promise.  
Thank you Winnie.

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## finallyME

> Oh Hun you do and your dead man tonight.....I promise.  
> Thank you Winnie.


Way to keep him in line.  :Scared:

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> Oh Hun you do and your dead man tonight.....I promise.  
> Thank you Winnie.


SEE!! I told you it was tonight!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ga_KFC26ZE

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## Rick

I'd rather take on the end of the world than Equus. I might just stand a chance of defeating the end of the world.

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## hunter63

Well, there has been signs....
Nativedude quote> Do any of you believe that 12/21/2012 will happen? Or, do you think it's like the Y2K scare?< quote.
Didn't just have a y2k scare a while back?

Still planning a party on Dec 20th..........

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## Winnie

> Two years to go.


I thought you'd given up the sauce? :Whistling:

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## paratrooper_rick

Kinda new here - found a really cool app for my phone that deals with the 2012 thing:

For those of you out there that are addicted to any source of scientific info like me - I found something I'm going to start testing.  This seems to go hand in hand with much of what we are discussing regarding the magnetic field and solar flares:  [URL=*****************************[/URL]

This app is pretty fun so far.  Here is a basic info:




> Provides realtime 3D views of the Sun and Earth. Receive Automatic solar flare, geomagnetic storm, and aurora alerts on your phone.
> 
> Solaris Alpha's solar astronomy page displays the latest extreme ultraviolet flares and hotspots.
> 
> Effortlessly move around the Sun and zoom into specific regions. Also features realtime 3D view of the Earth's aurora, cloud-cover, and sunlight. Watch northern and southern lights, storms, and sunshine move across the planet on your smart phone.
> 
> The application uses data from NASA STEREO, SDO, and NOAA polar orbiter spacecraft.


I'm going to play around with the app and see if it is what it says it is.

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## crashdive123

Hey there paratrooper_rick.  I've removed the link that you provided.  It is a violation of forum rules to place a link to your site in the body of your post.  Not sure if it is your site or not, but you did list it as your home page.  If it is not your site, it's kind of bad taste to come to a forum and make your first post linking to another forum.  How about pulling the rip cord and hitting the drop zone called Introductions.

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## nell67

> Hey there paratrooper_rick. I've removed the link that you provided. It is a violation of forum rules to place a link to your site in the body of your post. Not sure if it is your site or not, but you did list it as your home page. If it is not your site, it's kind of bad taste to come to a forum and make your first post linking to another forum. *How about pulling the rip cord and hitting the drop zone called Introductions*.


Good one Crash!!!!  You da man!

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## crashdive123

I try............

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## crashdive123

Upon further review, it is his site and forum.

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## Rick

Way uncool.

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## crimescene450

> Way uncool.


he kinda stole your name

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## crashdive123

That's what he was talking about.

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## oldsoldier

[QUOTE=Rick;186717]It's another Y2K as far as I'm concerned. First, the middle of the galaxy thingy is an annual event. 

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html

It's not the end of the Mayan calendar but the end of that phase. Sort of like the end of our 2009 calendar. 2010 and a lot more years follow. Same with the Mayan calendar. 


 Dang it, It hurts to say this But I agree with Rick. I think it'll just be another day. No more no less,

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## crashdive123

Sooooooooo - you're saying don't run up my credit card bills in December 2012?  You mean they'll expect me to pay them off if it's not the end of the world?

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## 2dumb2kwit

Heck no, the world isn't going to end in December of 2012.

I've commited to getting married in the spring of 2013. You don't think I'm getting out of that, do you? LOL :Innocent:

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## BENESSE

> Heck no, the world isn't going to end in December of 2012.
> 
> I've commited to getting married in the spring of 2013. You don't think I'm getting out of that, do you? LOL


Give 'er time. _She'll_ change her mind by then.

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## crashdive123

> Give 'er time. _She'll_ change her mind by then.


Or orchestrate the end of the world on 12/21/12. :Innocent:

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## BENESSE

> Or orchestrate the end of the world on 12/21/12.


Marrying 2D would constitue TEOTW as she KI.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

OK With the recent "Revival" of this thread, it made me recall something I saw recently on youtube.... which led to other "Connected" Native American Prophecies. It seems that not only the Mayans have a "2012 Prophecy", Other "Primitive cultures" also have something similar...........





 (4 more parts, this is Part 1 of 5)

 (At least 5 more parts)


It seems that several Native American Nations share a similar belief with the Mayans. However it is not the "End", but an end of the world as we know it. A time of a "New Life Cycle" will then begin life anew.

EDIT:  After watching most of these....... So maybe the Term "TEOTWAWKI" is wrong.... Maybe it should be  "TEOLAWKI"(The End Of Life As We Know It). It seems that they believe it means a Different Life is the "Big Change", not Doomsday. The end of one Cycle of Life and the beginning of another.

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## Sarge47

For the life of me I can't figure out why a lot of people think that these ancient folks would know more about the end of the world than our scientists today.  Back in ancient times people believed that the sun revolved around the earth...which they also believed was flat.  They believed in curing diseases by "bleeding" the patient, using leeches, etc..  And Galieo tried to prove his theory of two objects of different weights, dropped from the same height, would hit the ground at the same time by an actual demonstration from the top of the Leaning Tower Of Pisa...and they STILL taught the opposite for 500 years after-wards!   :No:

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## Rick

The world is flat, Sarge. We sail around it horizontally. If you sailed straight out you'd fall right off.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> For the life of me I can't figure out why a lot of people think that these ancient folks would know more about the end of the world than our scientists today.  Back in ancient times people believed that the sun revolved around the earth...which they also believed was flat.  They believed in curing diseases by "bleeding" the patient, using leeches, etc..  And Galieo tried to prove his theory of two objects of different weights, dropped from the same height, would hit the ground at the same time by an actual demonstration from the top of the Leaning Tower Of Pisa...and they STILL taught the opposite for 500 years after-wards!


Yeah also funny that some of these ancient peoples knew healing properties of plants and other natural things that science scoffed at....only too be proven right by later scientists. Also early "scientists" believed that they could change lead to gold, the sun revolved around the Earth, etc..... so I guess it goes both ways huh? Remember in the "Old World" the tomato was poisonous. Also that it was Native Americans that showed a "Technologically superior" people how to stay alive when they first came here... using "technologically inferior" methods. it is a case of Yin and Yang. You can't have one without the other, and they balance each other out.

Not sure how much you know about American Indians beliefs, but at the risk of "Over simplifying" they believe that all life is like a circle. Something is born, it grows, it grows old, it dies....yet the circle starts again....

From what I saw in those videos, they are not saying it is the "End of the world" just an end of the life we know. I guess it's a good thing that some of histories inventors didn't listen to their skeptics as well..... we wouldn't know anything about Electricity, Nuclear power, or even a light bulb. Skepticism is good.... to a point. A wise person once told me.... "If just one person tells you you walk like a duck, Don't put much stock in it. If Two people tell you that, you might want to take a look at it. If three or more tell you, chances are you do walk like a duck."

I just found it odd that there are so many other ancient cultures saying almost the same thing. Believe what you will... that it will or it won't end. But you know.... Yellowstone(a "Mega Volcano") is overdue to blow .... this according to science. IF it does it will change the whole shape of life in the whole world.... Nothing will be as it is now. No flights anywhere for a very long time if at all, people dieing from inhaling volcanic ash, Machinery incapable of operating. Yet it is "Impossible for nature to defeat man" I wonder if the Dinosaurs thought that? That they would last forever. Truth is, I don't know WHAT to believe.

 I guess it is a good thing that scientists aren't so closed minded as to what IS possible. Where would we be without vaccines? Where would we be without batteries? Yet they were told it wasn't possible weren't they? Hmmmm. All I know is this.... a "Closed mind" will kill you in a survival situation.... Innovative thinking and a will to live are credited with saving many lives in such a situation. Sometimes doing what science says is impossible.... a woman weighing 100 lbs lifting a car off her trapped child. Worship science if you want, but I prefer to keep my options more open than that. Faith has carried as many through impossible situations as science.

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## Sarge47

> Yeah also funny that some of these ancient peoples knew healing properties of plants and other natural things that science scoffed at....only too be proven right by later scientists. Also early "scientists" believed that they could change lead to gold, the sun revolved around the Earth, etc..... so I guess it goes both ways huh? Remember in the "Old World" the tomato was poisonous. Also that it was Native Americans that showed a "Technologically superior" people how to stay alive when they first came here... using "technologically inferior" methods. it is a case of Yin and Yang. You can't have one without the other, and they balance each other out.
> 
> Not sure how much you know about American Indians beliefs, but at the risk of "Over simplifying" they believe that all life is like a circle. Something is born, it grows, it grows old, it dies....yet the circle starts again....
> 
> From what I saw in those videos, they are not saying it is the "End of the world" just an end of the life we know. I guess it's a good thing that some of histories inventors didn't listen to their skeptics as well..... we wouldn't know anything about Electricity, Nuclear power, or even a light bulb. Skepticism is good.... to a point. A wise person once told me.... "If just one person tells you you walk like a duck, Don't put much stock in it. If Two people tell you that, you might want to take a look at it. If three or more tell you, chances are you do walk like a duck."
> 
> I just found it odd that there are so many other ancient cultures saying almost the same thing. Believe what you will... that it will or it won't end. But you know.... Yellowstone(a "Mega Volcano") is overdue to blow .... this according to science. IF it does it will change the whole shape of life in the whole world.... Nothing will be as it is now. No flights anywhere for a very long time if at all, people dieing from inhaling volcanic ash, Machinery incapable of operating. Yet it is "Impossible for nature to defeat man" I wonder if the Dinosaurs thought that? That they would last forever. Truth is, I don't know WHAT to believe.
> 
>  I guess it is a good thing that scientists aren't so closed minded as to what IS possible. Where would we be without vaccines? Where would we be without batteries? Yet they were told it wasn't possible weren't they? Hmmmm. All I know is this.... a "Closed mind" will kill you in a survival situation.... Innovative thinking and a will to live are credited with saving many lives in such a situation. Sometimes doing what science says is impossible.... a woman weighing 100 lbs lifting a car off her trapped child. Worship science if you want, but I prefer to keep my options more open than that. Faith has carried as many through impossible situations as science.


Knowledge of the local flora & fauna is one thing; being able to predict a complete world change several thousands of years down the road is something else again.  I don't "worship" science but neither do I discard it.  My wife Has two tribes of Native American blood in her & studies much of the old ways.  It's logic that I use for understanding things like ancient civilizations.  While it's true that one woman lifted a car off of her trapped child, we don't now expect all 100 pound women to be able to do the same, that was an isolated incident.  My faith rest in God more than anything else.  I still remember Y2k!  (the year, not the member.)   :Shifty:

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## Rick

I think anyone can make a prediction and, if documented and followed and given enough time, it will come true. Early cultures had a lot of interaction so it doesn't strike me as odd that other civilizations would have similar beliefs. Stories handed down from one people to another and from generation to generation tend to make the rounds like a good joke does today. Wouldn't it be funny if the Mayan Proficiency turned out to be the punch line of a good joke and we just haven't found the tablet for the first part of the joke?   Two Mayans walk into a temple.....

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> Knowledge of the local flora & fauna is one thing; being able to predict a complete world change several thousands of years down the road is something else again.  I don't "worship" science but neither do I discard it.  My wife Has two tribes of Native American blood in her & studies much of the old ways.  It's logic that I use for understanding things like ancient civilizations.  While it's true that one woman lifted a car off of her trapped child, we don't now expect all 100 pound women to be able to do the same, that was an isolated incident.  My faith rest in God more than anything else.  I still remember Y2k!  (the year, not the member.)


I agree. I'll let you know what I think about this Prophecy in 2015..... figure I'll give them a couple years in case their predictions are off some. There are many things I do not understand in life. Some is scientific, some is "mystical", some is just general everyday stuff. Recently picked up a book on traps and snares, and there is one trigger that I still haven't figured out. :Blushing: 

Mainly I posted those, for 2 reasons. 1) they were on topic and 2) I was surprised to find other ancient civilizations with the same prophecy.... although American Indians do not specify a date as do the Mayans. Mainly theirs seem to be based on "Signs" foretelling a major change, but not the end of the world. Differing Nations seem to have different signs... Lakota(Sioux) is based on the White Buffalo, while the Cherokee seems to be based on planetary signs.

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## 2dumb2kwit

Poco, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I've said for a long time that Dec. 21, 2012 is going to be a big change in life "as we know it"...not the destruction of the planet. Pretty much everyone thinks I'm nuts, but I think the elections in November of 2012 are going to be the spark, that lights the fuse, for the big change in December of 2012.

 I hope I'm wrong.

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## 2dumb2kwit

Another thing to keep in mind, is the alignment of the planets, stars, etc. Plenty of people chalk that stuff up as hocus-pocus, but think about how crazy people get during a full moon. Wouldn't it stand to reason that a more significant astrological event would have a more significant affect on people?

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## BENESSE

> Poco, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I've said for a long time that *Dec. 21, 2012 is going to be a big change in life "as we know it"*...not the destruction of the planet. Pretty much everyone thinks I'm nuts, but I think the *elections in November of 2012 are going to be the spark*, that lights the fuse, for the big change in December of 2012.
> 
> *I hope I'm wrong*.


If I read you correctly 2D, you feel that 2012 elections will not make _us_ (wsf, and like minded) happy. Which has to mean that the majority has prevailed again in voting for a candidate _we_ don't approve of. That in turn, will change the life _on the planet_ to the such an extent, that it wouldn't be the life as we've known it up to that point? Does that about sum it up?

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## BENESSE

> Another thing to keep in mind, is the alignment of the planets, stars, etc. Plenty of people chalk that stuff up as hocus-pocus, but *think about how crazy people get during a full moon*. Wouldn't it stand to reason that a more significant astrological event would have a more significant affect on people?


People also get crazy when their favorite brand of bacon isn't on sale.

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## kyratshooter

> If I read you correctly 2D, you feel that 2012 elections will not make _us_ (wsf, and like minded) happy. Which has to mean that the majority has prevailed again in voting for a candidate _we_ don't approve of. That in turn, will change the life _on the planet_ to the such an extent, that it wouldn't be the life as we've known it up to that point? Does that about sum it up?


Or perhaps the decision of the majority will be set aside, or altered and a new political system established.  

Revolt of the electorial college against the obvious will of the majority.

Violence during the election "provoking" martial law, suspension of the election and locking all public officials in their positions until the "emergency" is over. 

After all, "our constitution is a living, changing document", open to interpretation, a suggestion for 1789 and not a guarentee for ours.  

I do not put anything past the egomania encouraged by the present system.

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## Rick

Or.......we could just wrap ourselves in tin foil and wait. I'm gonna hang on to some bacon in case it's a fiery end.

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## crashdive123

Or perhaps the Moochers will see their gravy train riding off into the sunset and revolt.

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## Rick

Oooh. I like that. I like that a lot. 

"What's going on? Where's everyone at?"
"Well, the gravy train left town. You know, you should have gotten ready. This was fortold. Let the weeping and gnashing of teeth begin."

I gotta stick around just to see that.

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## crashdive123

Yep.  It'll probably happen on a Monday to boot.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> If I read you correctly 2D, you feel that 2012 elections will not make _us_ (wsf, and like minded) happy. Which has to mean that the majority has prevailed again in voting for a candidate _we_ don't approve of. That in turn, will change the life _on the planet_ to the such an extent, that it wouldn't be the life as we've known it up to that point? Does that about sum it up?


 What I think, is that no matter which way the elections in 2012 go, one side is not going to be happy...probably be convinced that the other side has done something dirty to get that result, and "un-rest" will be the result.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> People also get crazy when their favorite brand of bacon isn't on sale.


 Hey, hey, hey....let's not being joking about bacon, like that! LOL

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Or perhaps the decision of the majority will be set aside, or altered and a new political system established.  
> 
> Revolt of the electorial college against the obvious will of the majority.
> 
> Violence during the election "provoking" martial law, suspension of the election and locking all public officials in their positions until the "emergency" is over. 
> 
> After all, "our constitution is a living, changing document", open to interpretation, a suggestion for 1789 and not a guarentee for ours.  
> 
> I do not put anything past the egomania encouraged by the present system.


 Looks like I'm not the only one who has thought of these possibilities. LOL

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Or.......we could just wrap ourselves in tin foil and wait. I'm gonna hang on to some bacon in case it's a fiery end.


 Having bacon is _always_ a good idea!

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## BENESSE

> What I think, is that no matter which way the elections in 2012 go, one side is not going to be happy...probably be convinced that the other side has done something dirty to get that result, and "un-rest" will be the result.


Care to guess which side will get "un-rested" first?

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Or perhaps the Moochers will see their gravy train riding off into the sunset and revolt.


 See....somebody else has thought of this. LOL

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Care to guess which side will get "un-rested" first?


 I'll just keep my opinion to myself, on that. I see no reason to fight a battle, for a war that I hope doesn't come. LOL

Like I said before...I hope I'm wrong...and we all know that I'm not very smart!

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I'll just keep my opinion to myself, on that. I see no reason to fight a battle, for a war that I hope doesn't come. LOL
> 
> Like I said before...I hope I'm wrong...*and we all know that I'm not very smart*!


 Dang, B....you lettin' that one go??? LOL

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## BENESSE

> Dang, B....you lettin' that one go??? LOL


Well you're smart _just_ enough to choose your battles.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Well you're smart _just_ enough to choose your battles.


 LOL....Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

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## LongHuntre

The Hopi Indians chose that date as well for a cosmic event .....bit strange aye?

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## SARKY

Several groups have that date picked out as the end of a cycle (whatever that means) The spyder program which takes in terebytes of info and spits out predictions has come up blank as in it can not make a prediction on anything past 2012. That is very odd.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

SARKY I couldn't find anything on the "spyder program". Except for some software oriented stuff. Do you have a link?

Yes, I think one of the youtube vids I put up was Hopi. Also Lakota (Sioux), and Cherokee.

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