# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  Career Choice in SHTF World

## Ariane

Hey Everyone,

I am new here and have been reading on here from more expert survivalists and decided its worth to post something. 

Its amazing how people can come together in a SHTF situation like economic collapse, war, peak oil and I think we don't have a clue of how people will behave in a decline of the western world.

Preparedness for survival situations will cost a great deal of money and survival is difficult without modern conveniences. We cannot plan for everything. But in a total decline of the modern western world, peak oil, economy collapse, and war. Everything would be a challenge.

I have been questioning of what business would be like in that situation. How would products be manufactured? Even Growing your own food is a bigger challenge than I ever thought possible in an economic collapse.

Warm Regards

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## LowKey

People have been manufacturing goods and growing their own food since the dawn of mankind.

The only problem?
There are far too many people on this planet to make that work. So unless your collapse includes a massive culling, the resources just aren't there for 7 billion-plus people.

You actually have to look back no farther than the early 1800s.
Do you remember the lesson of the Gold Rush?
It wasn't the gold miners making the money.
Who was it?

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## WalkingTree

> It wasn't the gold miners making the money.


Now that's a true statement right there.

I think that one of the things which would be at the forefront of my mind is becoming part of a group of people. Almost doesn't matter what 'job' I do...could do many, and people would probably need to be likewise multi-capable and flexible...but being part of a team would be vital.

The real trick is understanding different psychologies, and being able to judge people's character...and making sure that you're with the right kind of folks.

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## Ariane

I agree, Disputes were often handled personally and violently and became quite a massacre. Not to familiar with American History although they did call it the wild west for a reason. I am from England and know a lot more about European history. I am a terrible judge of character so that wont help me, also i am not as cautious with people as I should be especially with an economic collapse.

Although I don't expect the future can be predicted and what will happen, I envision that people in times of hardship and scarcity would come together and become much more cooperative with each other... Such as the lessons from post-world war II.




> People have been manufacturing goods and growing their own food since the dawn of mankind.


Yeah this is true, i believe in resilience and adaptation. I believe that money and progressive societies will survive and prosper if they choose to invest wisely and capitalize on their investment. In the near future capitalism will end and technology will become increasingly efficient using less natural resources and at the same time a worsening state of affairs in poor countries unable to adapt. I just don't want to be in the country that cannot support itself.

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## finallyME

It would be really hard for us to forget how to manufacture many of our conveniences that we use on a daily basis.  The only way we would be "thrown back in the stone age" is if we forgot everything we have learned as a society.

My guess is that in the event of economic collapse, whoever survives the first year or two will just rebuild society to what is was before.

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## hunter63

Sooo....The morning after the SHTF I plan on heading down to the "Post SHTF Welfare department" and get my welfare check.....
Because everyone on knows the Govment is always gonna be sticking their nose in everything......

Oh wait...What kind of SHTF we talking about? 

Serious.....Jack of all trades is a good place to start.

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## kyratshooter

SHTF/TEOTWAWKI sounded real possible the first 30 years I spent reading about it.  The last 15 or 20, not so much.

if it did not happen during the Great Depression, and if it did not happen between 2008 and now, it ain't going to happen, no matter how different we think people are now. 

BTW the peak oil thing collapsed again when oil lost 3/4 its value.  Besides, the guy that came up with the Peak Oil thing had already set back the date a half dozen times before he died a decade back.  It had to be readjusted each time a new energy reserve was found.  He had finally given up on the theory himself.

The entire population is not going to forget the accumulated knowledge we already have, as Finallyme pointed out.

Turning back time???   To when?  We have gone way past the witch doctor and warlord thing ever happening again.  No one is going to worship you because you have a Bic lighter and most of the world is just as well armed as you are. 

Even when Rome fell the rest of the world went on as it had and continued development.  The eastern half of the empire flourished and never did "crash".  Arabia, North Africa and Spain continue to flourish even as their neighbors in France and England lived in mud huts. The communication system and superstition was just so bad the information never reached western Europe until latter and they had to build an economy that offered something worth trading for.  

Even then the universities in England, France and Germany were turning out doctors, lawyers, and teachers from the 1200s on.

So my bet for a profession post SHTF is doctor, lawyer, teacher, veterinarian, spiritual leader, plumber, electrician, computer tech, chicken farmer or about anything that is making you a good living today.  

Best to concentrate on the SHTF we can actually do something about.  That wildfire in Canada, the flooding of Katrina and Hurricane Sandy, the tornadoes that sweep across most every part of our nation at one time or another, the period of unemployment that stretches to 6 months or a year, the long term illness where we need care or we have to care for a loved one.  Is that not enough SHTF?

Rather than take up training in the black arts, sword fighting, hovel building and professional dumpster diving how about getting the vehicles in order and full of gas, establishing that long term food supply, putting back some savings in case of emergency, having a full stock of emergency meds, taking a first aid/CPR course, starting a neighborhood watch as a community base in case of disaster.

There's real stuff to do.

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## WalkingTree

Hehehehe ^ yep. Can't avoid the eventual voice of reason. Never a break.

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## kyratshooter

Yep, I am the self appointed harsher of the mellow!

EOTWAWKI is now pretty much the venue of those that WANT it to happen, not those that fear it will happen.  

They are not happy in the world we possess and they feel they would do better if they cold press a reset button, especially if they think they can be in charge.

We do not have a frontier to run to any more, have not for a while, but the desire to remake ourselves on the edge of civilization still lives.

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## WeekendWarrior

Master Distiller

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## crashdive123

I suppose it is romantic to fantasize about living in a post apocalyptic world for some, but it most likely ain't gonna happen.  As has been said, local and regional events happen all the time.  If you are not focusing your energy on preparing for those sort of disasters then your priorities may be skewed.

Rather than worry about a post EOTWAWKI career it may be more prudent to focus on a career now so that you have the means to prepare for what is likely, not something out of a B movie.

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## finallyME

> SHTF/TEOTWAWKI sounded real possible the first 30 years I spent reading about it.  The last 15 or 20, not so much.


I am still in my first 30 year period..  :Smile:   So, I will expand a little on what I was trying to say.  I had to type my last comment with a 2 year old on my lap, so I kept it short.

I do think that society will completely collapse.  I am religious, and Christian, and believe in the book of Revelations... but don't think the times are as close as others think.  I could be wrong...because no one knows..

Anyways, what would happen if society collapses?  If the event isn't local (like Katrina or Sandy or East LA or Missouri...) then bugging out is retarded.  Stay home!  Your neighbors are in the same situation.  Personally, I think that people will clump together, like they have always done.  They will form groups based on geography and the group will become the mini government.  The mini governments will establish an initial self sufficiency, and then when things calm down, they will start trading with other groups.  Smaller groups will combine into larger groups, and eventually we will have nation states again.
As for occupations, anything that helps the community will be valuable at first.  We won't be in the dark ages.  We will figure out how to manufacture the same stuff that we need, since we already know how to do it.  The manufacturing will probably be small scale at first, but eventually get back to large scale.  So, if for some reason you are trying to pick a career now, I would first try and convince you into a STEM field.  However, if that doesn't make you happy, then you should look for what makes you happy, because you still have to do it the rest of your life.  You can always pick up hobbies that would make you valuable later on.  Crash is a good example.  For his day job he deploys weapons of mass destruction on invertebrates.  But, for a hobby, he makes knives.  For myself, my hobby is to learn how to make everything.  I have tried making clothes, knives, tents, sleeping bags, leather goods, bags, etc.  I have a goal to make everything in my "kit" for backpacking and camping.  Of course, right now I am teaching myself how to make books.  I don't want to do my hobbbies for a living.

Regardless... it doesn't matter if the world is going to end now or later.  Local disasters are real.  Preparing for them is your top priority.  And, preparing for them will help you prepare for other things.

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## Grizz123

> I agree, Disputes were often handled personally and violently and became quite a massacre. Not to familiar with American History although they did call it the wild west for a reason. I am from England and know a lot more about European history. I am a terrible judge of character so that wont help me, also i am not as cautious with people as I should be especially with an economic collapse.


For what reason did "they" call it the wild west?? 
Who is "they"?

Seems your only experience with "the wild west" has been from western movies, which I find extremely entertaining but not historically accurate. That being said, why not use European history as an example of how things might pan out?

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## kyratshooter

And how will looking at European history show how things will pan out in a total world collapse?

A total world collapse has never happened.

All the historical instances of social collapse have been regional, with recovery based on the efficiency of the communications and transportation infrastructure.

And as a historian I can assure you that things in the "wild west" got pretty wild.  But that was due to the lag time between entry into the areas and the federal/territorial governments sending in LEO.  It was also due to bad communication an coordination of the era.

When government and LEO entered the picture and were allowed to do their jobs they usually got things cleaned up pretty quickly. Just like today.  

And when the bad guys visited the "civilized" areas they generally calmed things down, knowing the citizens would not put up with their foolishness.  The beginning of the end for the James Gang was their decision to go out of their normal zone of operations and rob two banks in a town where about 50% of the population consisted of Union Army vets!

And the book of Revelation???  Read it closely, in the background is the story of an ultimate organization of "one world government" and a unified world economy.  All those tribulations occur with a government and laws in place with the whole thing over in 7 years.

Crash's regular job?  I can't imagine how much the demand for his profession would increase during a down turn of the social order.  Imagine how popular he would have been during the Black Death!  All those fleas!  All those rats!

My old job?  Yep, according to history they were setting up Universities in every state and territory before they had run all the Indians out.  The Pilgrims had established Universities within 30 years of landing at Plymouth.  The Homestead act of 1784 provided for a public school in every township.  And if you want to use European history Oxford and Cambridge were both operating before Braveheart had been executed.

*Then there is the ultimate fantasy, which is that we, the preparers, will survive the initial blow that causes the collapse.*  Every scenario begins with a total and complete world wide disaster that leaves the prepper untouched to make his decision to bug out or bug in.

Good luck with that!

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## Wildthang

I will simply be a fix it all handy man! I have enough tools and parts to fix almost anything. And of course I will only take goods for my services or gold!

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## hunter63

I plan on being the "Star of my own show"...........
But I will have to see what the "Show" is first.

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## Rick

What time does all this stuff happen? I may want to get to bed early the night before.

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## crashdive123

> What time does all this stuff happen? I may want to get to bed early the night before.


Seven years ago according to BraggSurvivor.

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## hunter63

I'm still bummed about Dec 21, 2012...Them Mayans lied....was just a thunderstorm......?

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## LowKey

I plan on being at ground zero.
No desire here to rebuild civilization. 
Certainly not this one. 
But it's all we have, so going with it for the moment.
---

Prepping for the fall of civilization as described in Revelations? I suppose it depends on when you interpret The Rapture will occur and whether or not you plan on being caught up in it.

Otherwise it sounds like a whole lot of trying not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But then what?
Is the world reduced once again to primordial slime? Or is there some vestige of mankind left on earth? Or do all those called to Heaven during The Rapture return to Earth and rebuild? What are they going to rebuild? Are the items stored in the many caches (that members here seem to have) going to be useful? Necessary? Or appropriate?
Interesting survival dilemma in the true meaning of "post-apocalyptic world."

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## hunter63

Sound like we all gonna need to stash more 9mm?

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## WalkingTree

The collapse...I hope there's coffee there.

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## kyratshooter

I have a big 36 cup coffee pot for the campfire.

I'm opening a coffee shop.

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## crashdive123

> The collapse...I hope there's coffee there.


There are a few of us that will ALWAYS have coffee.  You'd understand if you attend one of our Jamborees.

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## Manwithnoname

> I have a big 36 cup coffee pot for the campfire.
> 
> I'm opening a coffee shop.


Hey, Starbucks will get wiped out and give real coffee shops a chance again. Awesome, bring it on  :Smile:

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## Rick

> Is the world reduced once again to primordial slime?




That would be okay as long as they don't have some yappy dog. Primordial slime has never caused me any problems personally. Live and let live is my motto.

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## finallyME

> I plan on being at ground zero.
> No desire here to rebuild civilization. 
> Certainly not this one. 
> But it's all we have, so going with it for the moment.
> ---
> 
> Prepping for the fall of civilization as described in Revelations? I suppose it depends on when you interpret The Rapture will occur and whether or not you plan on being caught up in it.
> 
> Otherwise it sounds like a whole lot of trying not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
> ...


The only reason I brought up Revelations was to say that "something" is going to  happen.  Everyone reads it differently with their own interpretations.  Being that this site has restrictions on religious discussion, there is no need to go into details.  There are plenty of other websites and forums that are survival related and have a religious section.  You can always go talk about the details there.

If you don't believe in the Bible at all.... that's fine. (I am not specifically addressing this to you lowkey, just anyone actually reading what I write) My main point is that if you prepare for the real threats that are generally local, you will probably be prepared for anything that is much bigger, if it so happens to take place.  Are you prepared to leave home and drive a while to the next county or state to get away from a hurricane or forest fire or biological spill?  Can you hunker down in a snow storm that cuts out all power to your area? Are you prepared for an earthquake? Do you have a buffer to feed your family if you loose a job?  Most everyone is saying the same thing here... prepare for the things that will happen.  And, I am adding that if you do, you will be prepared for something that probably won't happen as well.

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## WalkingTree

I might still be in trouble...I'll almost only drink Columbian coffee. If it ain't Columbian...I might try it, and like it, but it certainly can't be a 'regular generic blend' with no character.




> I plan on being at ground zero.


I was kinda wondering about this. What's this particular part mean?

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## crashdive123

It means.....if its going to be the end of the world, may as well get it over with quickly.

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## Rick

I thought that was the extra fine grind of coffee beans. 3 is coarse and ground zero is extra fine. No?

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## hunter63

That's what I thought......
I am a #1 grind myself.....but if it was "THE Ground Zero"....We wouldn't need coffee anyway...Right?....or a Job?

Personally I would rather have a "Position" than an occupation or job.

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## LowKey

I only have one of those grind-it-til-you-like-it type of coffee grinders. The grind varies by how much I'm paying attention. Of course, it's electric. Would be using a hammer in the post apocolypse.

Growing up, there were always those maps around showing targets the Russians would hit if it came to Thermo-Nuclear war. Those ones with the concentric rings showing likely days of survival and all of the overlaps. Sort of lent a fatalistic attitude toward life in the aftermath in the case of something like that. Now the other map, the one that showed the blast zone of the local gas storage facility? That was something that could be avoided. Something like _that_ is a bug-out situation.

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## hunter63

We have a shuttered Nuke plant in Zion Il......on Lake Michigan...been shuttered for a while now....but we had those maps with the rings on it,... in the paper once a year.....an WHOOP'S Map.....

We were/are in the 4th ring....the KYAG (Kiss Your A$$ Goodbye) in a day or so ring.

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## WalkingTree

Wouldn't ground zero coffee just be instant coffee? No brewing required?

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## crashdive123

Now that right there is funny, I don't care who you are.

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## blackthorne

As for me, im going to be a main battle tank mechanic, end of the worid doesn't mean a thing if ya gotta a tank!

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## DOGMAN

Probably "Karate instructor "....I figure folks will want to learn martial arts, I've got some books, videos and magazines and I'd put together a little dojo in the woods and teach people to defend themselves

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## tjwilhelm

> Master Distiller


Right on, WeekendWarrior!  That's what this guy's gonna do...okra whiskey!

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## 1stimestar

Well since I hide people for a living, figure I'll just keep on doing the same but with family.

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## WalkingTree

> I hide people for a living


Um...what? Sounds intriguing.

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## hunter63

> Right on, WeekendWarrior!  That's what this guy's gonna do...okra whiskey!


That is just plain weird........LOL

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## Ariane

Thanks to everyone who posted a comment,

I just think that imagining a rebirth or a new beginning of our society is romantic. Imagine a world without pollution, there is no extremism, what if we could start again? And build our own utopia. That freedom would motivate me instead we are forced to give up our innate liberty to be protected from violence, and to protect our valuable assets.

Its a shame humans cannot reach their full potential because of how certain people behave.  :Euro:  Instead of imagining a life that will be better, The problems caused because of our way of life make me believe I should prepare for the worst. I cant help but think, What if this is the peak of our civilization?

It also got me questioning the future, because of the referendum in the United Kingdom. If we should leave Europe (brexit) or stay in Europe (remain).

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## crashdive123

Why do you believe that human nature will change in the post EOTWAWKI scenario that you envision?

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## 1stimestar

> Imagine a world without pollution, there is no extremism,


If there were an EOTWAWKI situation, all who were left would be required to be extreme!  Do you think you could survive by being soft and flowy?

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## 1stimestar

> Um...what? Sounds intriguing.


I manage 3 offsite locations for the local woman's shelter.

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## hunter63

I'm thinking the EOTWAWKI will be a wasteland or garbage dump.........the remains of everything left behind....

Couple of hundred years, maybe Mother Nature may have cleaned stuff up a bit.....Maybe not.


Chernobyl times the whole world....

https://www.google.com/search?q=cher...IBigB&dpr=1.25

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## kyratshooter

> Why do you believe that human nature will change in the post EOTWAWKI scenario that you envision?


This is a continuation of the "Noble Savage" and "Natural Man" vision of the mid 19th Century which we term "Romanticism".  

It is the root of the Hawkeye/Last of the Mohicans legend with a touch of Little House On the Prairie, and in Europe the Tarzan epics.

It is very popular among folk who have never had the crap beaten out of them by a less than noble savage.

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## Ariane

> This is a continuation of the "Noble Savage" and "Natural Man" vision of the mid 19th Century which we term "Romanticism".


Yeah just been reading prior to my post about the noble savage, probably inspired by Hollywood. I would like to believe that is the truth that technologically primitive people could be extremely moral and decent and live long healthy lives without being aggressive or violent.

My view that modern society can be corrupting and that if we could redesign our society could motivate us. I believe a better designed society could stop human corruption such as abolishing slavery, abolishing poverty. I believe there are societies that could exist peacefully in a Utopian manner but because of our innate corruption we cannot realize our perfection. 

I wanted to know about a TEOTWAWKI (which could happen) if you looked closely at the world situation you would find it highly threatening to humanity—so threatening that the hands of the Doomsday Clock must once again be set at three minutes to midnight, two minutes closer to catastrophe than in 2014. 

I kinda forgot what my point is.... 

Thanks for your comments

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## hunter63

> Yeah just been reading prior to my post about the noble savage, probably inspired by Hollywood. I would like to believe that is the truth that technologically primitive people could be extremely moral and decent and live long healthy lives.
> 
> My view that modern society can be corrupting and that if we could redesign our society could motivate us to excel in our career. I believe a better designed society could stop human corruption such as abolishing slavery, abolishing poverty. I believe there are societies that could exist peacefully in a Utopian manner but because of our innate corruption we cannot realize our perfection. 
> 
> A TEOTWAWKI could happen in my belief because I read that the time on the doomsday clock is 11.57, which means the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists Science and Security Board thinks the probability of global catastrophe is very high. 12.00 signifies the apocalypse.


I disagree....I think that is a unrealistic assumption.....
History tell us that things haven't changed much in recorded history.....and most likely since the early man walked upright.....
Recall Cain and Able?

But, Hey that your fantasy, you get to write it anyway you want.

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## kyratshooter

Primitive people do not generally live long and happy lives.  

They die young and generally in pain. Often from a toothache or infection that modern medical care could deal with as a minor issue.

When my Dad was born life expectancy was 52, when I was born it was up to 72 and has not advanced much since then in spite of medical technology.

And that is in the U.S. and lines up pretty close to most other developed nations.  When you get closer to the "natural man" living off grid the life span closes down rapidly.

The closer you get to no running water, no electricity and no health care technology the closer you get to the 35-45 year life span of the cave men, alongside the 10% death from childbirth before age 40 rate for the women and that number is still good in the undeveloped areas today.  50% of the children died before one year and 50% of the "survivors" died before age 10, which means 3/4 of the kids did not make it to adulthood.

The desire for hitting the "restart button" and getting back to nature has to include the reduction in lifespan and fight for resources that has always been part of the human condition.

Yep, it is believed that the fight for resources is the reason Neanderthal and all the human types preceding him no longer exist.  They could not compete for the scarce resources needed to sustain the individual, family or tribe.  

The perfection of the "noble savage" as the "natural man" has never existed.

Every fish, bird, reptile, mammal and ape will fight for territory and resources needed to stay alive.  

When you stop fighting you stop surviving.

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## Rick

> Its a shame humans cannot reach their full potential because of how certain people behave.




Humans don't reach their full potential for a lot of reasons. The vast majority of them are self limitations we impose on ourselves. When you see people like Bill Gaits, Ben Radford, Howard Schultz, Oprah Windfrey and many, many others that went from rags to riches you realize that the sky is the limit for those who wish to reach high enough. If you wish to limit yourself and blame others then that's on you.

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## WalkingTree

"We cannot return to a simpler world. Much of contemporary social criticism is made irrelevant by its refusal to face that fact."

- John Gardner


"After all, when one tries to change institutions without having changed the nature of men, that unchanged nature will soon resurrect those institutions."

- Will Durant

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