# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  What to plant...

## Tootsiepop254

Its what most of us ask ourselves every year.  

My goal is to feed myself completely from my garden (excluding meat products).  With that goal in mind, a complete garden list escapes me.  What would YOU plant, and when, if your only food came from your garden?

Maybe we can have some fun with this.   :Turned:

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## Grizz123

A wide variety of hot and sweet peppers  :Banana:

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## Rick

You had better have a very large garden if you intend to subsist off of it. Remember that you only harvest a small portion of food at a time until you reach fall. You'll have a lot of one item at a time. For instance, you'll have lettuce early but not tomatoes or potatoes or corn. Then you'll have lettuce and tomatoes but not potatoes or corn. Then you'll have tomatoes but no lettuce potatoes and corn and so on.

Beyond that I'd have to tell you to plant only what you and your family will eat.

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## hunter63

Study up on preservation methods,.... canning, drying, cold storage.......freezing (may be a problem if power is out).

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## SlowRide13

> Study up on preservation methods,.... canning, drying....


+1
This is essential. In my opinion, these skills, and the equipment needed are the #1 hole in most people's "prepping."

As for the question, for me it would be planting mostly starches (corn, potatoes, beans, turnips) in the garden and foraging for greens (and creating "guerilla gardens" with wild edibles).

Edit: I didn't put the live links in this post. They magically appeared :Huh: 

Re-Edit: Well, now the links disappeared... Weird.

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## CNL

It is amazing just how long fresh veggies stay good if kept at a good temp and humidity. Carrots, beets, potatoes, cucumbers, peppers, will all last months without anything special needing to be done besides a proper cold cellar. Past that canning is absolutely essential, and after that drying.

It has been awhile since I had to depend on a garden but some of what i remember are:

Tomatoes
Carrots
Beets
Beans Green and yellow
Peas
Lettuce (forget name but was leaf not head, you just pick as you need all summer)
Potatoes
Sweet potatoes
Various Squash (depends on your conditions)
Green peppers red as well but that is just a well ripened green not a seperate species :P
Chile peppers
Timebombs
Jalapeno
Too many herbs to list
Onions
Ginger 
Garlic
Ginseng (requires special care such as shade nets and takes 6-7 years before ready). This was not to eat for us it was to sell and well worth the time investment.
Cucumbers
Broccoli
Blueberries
Raspberries
Strawberries

If you plan for the future and place little appletrees around your garden at least say a distance of 10-15 feet you can train the branches so they grow toward eachother and you can form an amazingly strong and dense fence of apple tree branches around your garden which will keep deer, elk, etc out of your garden. it looks awesome and supplies you with all the apples you could ever eat.

Bout all i can remember for now.

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## Rick

Some of the foods automatically are posted with links. They link to a garden web site Chris also owns.

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## crashdive123

> It is amazing just how long fresh veggies stay good if kept at a good temp and humidity. Carrots, beets, potatoes, cucumbers, peppers, will all last months without anything special needing to be done besides a proper cold cellar. Past that canning is absolutely essential, and after that drying.
> 
> It has been awhile since I had to depend on a garden but some of what i remember are:
> 
> Tomatoes
> Carrots
> Beets
> Beans Green and yellow
> Peas
> ...


What are timebombs.......other than the things that go boom after the timer gets to 0?

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## Tootsiepop254

Interesting. I would have never considered ginger or ginseng. Also curious (and wary) about time bombs.

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## Tootsiepop254

What about grains? Any value in growing your own grains, or would you guys consider it too labor intensive a product?

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## CNL

Timebombs are a hot pepper :P Not to hot and with an amazing flavor. For grains I think you need to go fairly large scale in order to make it worthwhile but that's just speculation on my part.

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## Tootsiepop254

Aah!  I thought we were planting booby-traps to keep people out!  Peppers sound much tastier!

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

I am going to take a little different approach this year. I am going to plant groupings here there and everywhere on my 8 acres...instead of tilling a plot. Can anyone suggest helpful tips to be successful doing it this way?

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## Lamewolf

You can get some meats from a garden too, but you either have to set traps in the garden or guard it at gunpoint to do so !

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## LowKey

If you have kids, beware of any booby trapping. We have digitalis that comes up as a weed. Looks surprisingly like lettuce when young...

How much land do you have for tillage?
Grain is a space taking endeavor. You don't want it in your garden unless you have half an acre you can plant just in the grain of your choice. Same goes for corn. If you plan to plant dent or flint with the idea of drying it for corn meal. If you are in a challenging climate you can plan on maybe 50-100 bushels per acre of hybrid, heavily fertilized, sprayed-for-bugs varieties. The heirloom varieties produce far less and less than that if grown organically. Corn is a heavy feeder and needs a lot of water. Always plant grains in blocks, not rows. They are wind pollinated and need density over neatness.

When planning your garden, think in terms of 3 years so you can rotate your beds. You should think in terms of what grows in what and who needs what fertilizers. For instance, in one bed, I'll trench in a bunch of manure pretty deep and rake the soil back over it. Then plant squash, pumpkins, cukes, peppers or broccoli/cauliflower (heavy feeders). The next year I'll till up the organic matter and plant either onions/carrots or tomatoes. The third year is beans and when harvested the plants are cut, leaving the roots to rot. Always leave legume roots to rot. The fourth year I trench and start over.

Of course there are the yearly additions of compost and side dressed manure but that's pretty much the basics.

I grow mostly only things I'll eat. I also practice a lot of companion planting. Carrots and onions always go in the same bed together. Even though I hate radishes, I plant em with the cukes to keep the bean beetles away. I let the pigweed grow to give the flea beetles something to love more than my seedlings. On the occasions I've tried corn it does pretty well to put a cover crop of clover under it. I don't have the space for it but need to keep reminding myself about that.

The last thing I'd ever plant around the garden are apple trees. They are deer magnets. Those rats with antlers can jump just about any fence if they are inclined so why tempt them. The orchards around here have all invested in 12' high fences strung on a mini version of telephone pole uprights. That's put a lot of deer into neighborhood gardens. I've been considering a hawthorn hedge, done UK style but just haven't had the wherewithall the last couple years to do it. Well, that, and the town would probably consider it a "fence" and want a permit fee.

If you have land and want to plan for the future, look at what native plants can be grown in your area. I don't know CA flora too well. 
If you don't have animals it's going to be tough to get production out of a small plot to make enough to feed yourself year round unless you fertilize the snot out of it. And haven't I been hearing CA has water issues? Could be a problem for anything you decide to grow.

Around here I do edible landscaping. The nut trees and paw paws are still probably several years from producing but the crab and cherry trees produce a year after planting. Though it takes a hellacious number of cherries just for one pie, I have 2 trees that should produce well this year. The blueberry bushes are just starting to establish (3 years). The bed of blackberries went rampant last year and produced very well. This year the raspberries I planted as window access deterrents will be giving their first crop. The strawberry bed is going to more than double this year with the runners I flatted up last year. There are two clumps of rhubarb out there too. They don't always harvest together but Rhubarb freezes well. 

I have a bunch of stock hazelnuts I potted on and will be putting out in a clump in the front yard this year (less likely for the squirrels to get them there.) Cranberries make a great ground cover when they are happy. I planted grapes on the chain link fence last year. They will hopefully move in this year.

This year I'm digging a bed to plant jerusalem artichokes and making a potato trench away from the regular garden. I tried potatoes in the garden as an under crop but found the leaves are pretty toxic to anything growing around them. Those things even killed the "goshdarn violets" I haven't been able to get rid of anywhere else and nothing wanted to grow along that fence for another whole season.

I like to grow pumpkins and squash along the fences. By the time they are ready to run, the deer and rabbits won't touch them so I feed the vines through the fence out into the yard. Bury the nodes every three feet with some compost so they'll sink roots and they do great out there.

Grow vertical when you can. For beans, think about pole beans. Peas need fencing or trellising. Cucumbers do well on trellises rather than running on the ground. You can grow small pumpkins or melons up a chain link fence if you use net hammocks to support the fruits (I grow the smaller sugar pumpkins and the naked-seeded pumpkins.) Melons have to be short season here so I stick with the small charantais if I decide to waste my time. Has to be a hefty fence though.

Greens grow everywhere and in stages planted a week apart. Usually on the edges of raised beds to keep them in place. Sometimes as a quicky crop between rows. You can get a harvest of lettuce out before beans get large enough to shade em out. I even plant the red leaved varieties in the front flower beds. Since that's where the digitalis seeds in, that's why I plant the red leaved lettuce. If you like radishes, nothing grows quicker than those things.

If space is limited, some things can be crowded. Broccoli doesn't mind being jammed in pretty tight. Carrots and onions do pretty well together in alternating rows or blocks. You can grow carrots 3" apart instead of 6", onions far enough apart to bulb. Be sure to grow "Keeper" types. Some root veggies store better than others. The other thing you can try is an early season planting of something like broccoli than a midsummer planting of short-season string beans.

I like doing potatoes in trenches so they can be earthed up as they grow. I plant potato sets in the bottom, fill the trench about 6"deep with rotted hay then another 3-4" of dirt. As the plants grow up I alternate hay and dirt until the trench becomes a mound about a foot tall. Then leave em to grow. If you do this in a place where you have venomous snakes, I'm told you should be careful when digging up. Snakes like the warmth of the composted hay layers.

Oops. Sorry for the book.

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## Tootsiepop254

Cowboy - 
Try companion planting - some tomatoes with basil here, marigolds and squash over there, ect.  Makes the garden look wild and beautiful, and there are some really beautiful flowers that are beneficial as well as medicinal or edible.  I plant sunflowers, nasturtiums, calendulas, ecchinasia (sp?)...

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## LowKey

Cowboy, don't you have deer? Is the idea to attract them? Or grow things you will ultimately harvest?

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## Tootsiepop254

LOL.  Rabbits and such are plenty around here.  The idea is to keep larger critters out

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## SlowRide13

> ...Oops. Sorry for the book.


Excellent! Thanks for posting.

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## Tootsiepop254

I will have to look up apple tree fences. I have never heard of that.  

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## LowKey

If you want some interesting takes on 1800s style intensive gardening for food production, check out this website.
http://www.lostgardensofheligan.blogspot.com/
You have to back up through the season of blog posts for occasional tips and hints. The new person writing the blog is more into flash-wow than the earlier blogger who got more into the nitty gritty of the actual work.

I visited Heligan about 3 years ago and would have loved to stay and work there. The Productive garden is amazing. If you can find their Kitchen Garden book for a reasonable price, I highly recommend it:
http://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Garden...garden+heligan

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## Chris

I like to think in terms of yield per square foot and storage.

Butternut squash is one of my favorites, it can sit on a shelf for 6-12 months. Sweet potatoes and beets can also last a really long time in storage. Regular potatoes, decent amount of time, onions of course. All the root vegetables really. 

I also like plants like kale, though it isn't going to give you a lot of calories, but I like it because you can harvest it as it grows, leaves here or there, rather than the whole head as is the case with it's relative broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, etc.

But the main thing yes is preservation. Plant tons of fruit and turn it all into fruit leathers or jam. Plant apple trees and make lots of apple sauce. Many dried veggies take up almost no space. 

Then, learn to eat seasonally.

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## CNL

Fruit leather yeah is awesome and lasts forever. You can even dry veggies in a similar fashion with a little honey or sugar to liven it up and it is good. I forgot completely about cabbage and it is a definite must have in any of my gardens. We used to get dandelions growing around the property as well and they are actually great eating (the leaves) and some people make wine from them though i have never done this myself. If you are going to grow squash be ready to manually pollinate if you want good yields as left to their own device they do not come close to their potential.

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## Rick

I've never had a problem getting yields from Butternut squash. I generally get more than I can use but they certainly do last a very long time. I generally dip them in a light bleach bath to kill any organisms on the skin, rinse them then dry them very well before storing them in the garage over the winter. Like apples, you have to keep an eye on them. If one does go bad the rest will too if you don't get rid of the bad one. Very good flavor though for soup and baked.

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## CNL

> I've never had a problem getting yields from Butternut squash. I generally get more than I can use but they certainly do last a very long time. I generally dip them in a light bleach bath to kill any organisms on the skin, rinse them then dry them very well before storing them in the garage over the winter. Like apples, you have to keep an eye on them. If one does go bad the rest will too if you don't get rid of the bad one. Very good flavor though for soup and baked.


Yeah i was a wee bit confused lol. I meant Zucchini not squash...seems I have squash on the brain.

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## gryffynklm

Great post (28) Lowkey, Reinforced some things and learned some new.

This year I'm planting "Cheese Squash" It is another long storage squash. A friend used one in a years worth of historical presentations and ate it after one year. It got slightly damaged on its last trip. It was fine.

http://www.monticelloshop.org/631117.html

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## Tootsiepop254

Cheese squash? Never heard of it! 

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## 1stimestar

Hmmm, I'm thinking tomatoes, lettuce, green beans, peas, and onions.  I'll only have a small garden this year.  The tomatoes are probably just going in buckets.

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## MamaBear

We are in the same boat.  Trying to expand the garden and relying on grocery store much less.  I think it depends on what you and your family enjoy eating, what foraging/wild edibles are available to you, and what preservation methods you will be using.  Also a huge factor is your gardening zone and what you are able to grow.

Right off the top of my head, I would think potatoes/sweet potatoes, onions, garlic, beans, cabbage, carrots, corn, cukes, squash, tomatoes, peppers lettuce/spinach/greens.  Fruit such as berries are also a great addition.  Don't forget your medicinals such as chamomile, echinacea, calendula, mints, etc.  Consider companion planting such as the three sisters method (planting corn, beans, and squash together) to organically support your garden.

To get an idea of how much you should plant, I found a handy guide a while ago:
http://newlifeonahomestead.com/2013/...hould-i-plant/

of course this will change depending on your personal situation.

This year, I am planting tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, onions, garlic, cukes, lettuce, arugula, spinach, carrots, cabbage, okra, beans, dill, and as many herbs as I can cram in.  Will be canning, freezing, and drying.  I can't wait for spring!  Starting seedlings in a month or so!   :Big Grin: 




> Its what most of us ask ourselves every year.  
> 
> My goal is to feed myself completely from my garden (excluding meat products).  With that goal in mind, a complete garden list escapes me.  What would YOU plant, and when, if your only food came from your garden?
> 
> Maybe we can have some fun with this.

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## Tootsiepop254

I will be doing gardens at both my house and a friend's, with companion planting, square foot gardening and some verticle gardening. Wish us luck!

I know the reality of growing enough to negate the grocery store, while living in town is unrealistic, at best. But its a fun project, and when I buy my acreage in a year or two, its a skill that will be invaluable. 

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## Rick

I'm planting leaf lettuce, spinach and radishes on Friday. Spring is surely around the corner!!

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## Chris

> I'm planting leaf lettuce, spinach and radishes on Friday. Spring is surely around the corner!!


Indoors right, because I look outside and I have 3 feet of snow on my garden and you're not THAT far south from me. 

I recently ordered 14 fruit trees from Stark Bros to be planted at my future home site in Chattanooga, they told me the recommended ship/planting date for that area was the end of February, I couldn't believe it. I'll be happy if it is above freezing at the end of February here. My birthday is March 9th and I remember growing up going snowmobiling, on a still frozen lake, on my birthday, and in Chattanooga Spring tree planting starts a little after Valentine's Day? It isn't fair. Don't even get me started about cheaters like Crash who live in Florida. Totally unfair.

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## Tootsiepop254

Snow? That fluffy white stuff? I see it at my dad's sometimes. 

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## crashdive123

> Indoors right, because I look outside and I have 3 feet of snow on my garden and you're not THAT far south from me. 
> 
> I recently ordered 14 fruit trees from Stark Bros to be planted at my future home site in Chattanooga, they told me the recommended ship/planting date for that area was the end of February, I couldn't believe it. I'll be happy if it is above freezing at the end of February here. My birthday is March 9th and I remember growing up going snowmobiling, on a still frozen lake, on my birthday, and in Chattanooga Spring tree planting starts a little after Valentine's Day? It isn't fair. Don't even get me started about cheaters like Crash who live in Florida. Totally unfair.


Soooooooo - you probably don't want to hear about planting tomatoes yet do you? :Innocent:

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## aktrekker

> I will be doing gardens at both my house and a friend's, with companion planting, square foot gardening and some verticle gardening. Wish us luck!
> 
> I know the reality of growing enough to negate the grocery store, while living in town is unrealistic, at best. But its a fun project, and when I buy my acreage in a year or two, its a skill that will be invaluable. 
> 
> Sent from my N861 using Tapatalk


Search YouTube. There are many videos of people who have grown massive amounts of food in the city on a normal size lot (1/10 acre). Especially in CA.Some have grown enough they can't use it all.

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## Rick

> Indoors right




Nope. I broadcast the seed on top of the snow. When the ground warms up, presto, instant salad. Well, almost instant.

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## Tootsiepop254

Lol

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## Rick

My grandfather always planted lettuce on Valentine's Day and so did my dad. I picked it up from them. If you think about it, plants drop seeds in the fall and they lay there all winter long then germinate in the spring. Planting on Valentine's Day is really no different.

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## Canadian-guerilla

Jerusalem Artichokes

not in your garden per se
but in a marked remote location you know of
the tubers stay fresh until you dig them up ( even in winter )

" guerilla gardening " out in the bush

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## MamaBear

I've heard of these - I thought about planting some simply because they seem so easy to care for.  But doing research on it I read the fiber in them wasn't exactly "digestible" and could result in tummy issues mainly horrid gas.  Although people still do eat it so maybe it doesn't affect everyone?




> Jerusalem Artichokes
> 
> not in your garden per se
> but in a marked remote location you know of
> the tubers stay fresh until you dig them up ( even in winter )
> 
> " guerilla gardening " out in the bush

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## Chris

> I've heard of these - I thought about planting some simply because they seem so easy to care for.  But doing research on it I read the fiber in them wasn't exactly "digestible" and could result in tummy issues mainly horrid gas.  Although people still do eat it so maybe it doesn't affect everyone?


I've eaten them once, at a fancy restaurant, it was a mashed potato like preparation, I'm sure equal parts butter and sunchoke (other name for them) in it. Delicious, no digestion problems. Besides, such an issue wouldn't stop you from planting beans would it?

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## hunter63

Jerusalem Artichokes,....Be aware they are invasive.
Never had a problem eating them like potatoes.....real PITA to peel all sorta crooked and knobby....

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## Tootsiepop254

Lol

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## Chris

It is a perennial crop, that can be invasive, requires little care, native to north america.... animal feed? Plant some in an out of the way place, turn it into bacon. Sometimes invasive is good, it means the plant grows with little help from you.

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## ClayPick

I'm planting a field in milkweed, for the monarchs.

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## Tootsiepop254

That's cool

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## Tootsiepop254

Here we dont plant milkweed. It just... appears. 

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## Winnie

> I've heard of these - I thought about planting some simply because they seem so easy to care for.  But doing research on it I read the fiber in them wasn't exactly "digestible" and could result in tummy issues mainly horrid gas.  Although people still do eat it so maybe it doesn't affect everyone?


They're called 'Fartichokes' for good reason.  :Laugh:  If you can stand trumping for your country, they're a good crop to grow, I have some for a wind break (can'teat them myself). The allotment is very exposed. 
They do make good fodder though, my Goats used to fight over them.

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## crashdive123

> They're called *'Fartichokes'* for good reason.  If you can stand trumping for your country, they're a good crop to grow, *I have some for a wind break* (can'teat them myself). The allotment is very exposed. 
> They do make good fodder though, my Goats used to fight over them.


Now that right there is funny.  I don't care who you are.

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## Tootsiepop254

:Smile:   You guys crack me up!!

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## Sluggo

You will get pretty hungry the first year gardening what you will eat.Like one poster said,crops all come at different times.You live on your previous years garden( canning/ freezing/ drying) while you plant/ harvest and save the second year garden and so on.Anything you eat as you grow should be surplus harvest,not your wintering supply.

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## Winnie

My list this year is:

Runner Beans (eating fresh), Dwarf French Beans(canning), Haricot Beans(drying), Crookneck Squash(eating fresh, freezing), Winter squash(storing), Onions, Peas(eat fresh and freeze), 1st early Potatoes(eating fresh only), Tomatoes, 2 varieties a salad to eat fresh/dehydrate, Plum type to can/freeze, Pickling type Cucumber, Sweetcorn(eat fresh) and Popping Corn(store), Beets, Collards(eat fesh), Brussels Sprouts(eat fresh), Curly Kale(eat fresh), Broccoli(eat fresh, freeze), Lettuce, Leeks(eat fresh), Peppers and Chillies(eat fresh, freeze and dehydrate).
Fruit Raspberries, Strawberries, Gooseberries, Currants, Tayberries. I also have some fruit trees in that are too young to fruit this year. Also an Asparagus bed has just been planted but won't produce this year.

A lot of the above will also be pickled and fermented

I'm also trying Oca. This is a root crop similar to Potatoes that is harvested late in the year and from the tubers I have, stores well.

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## BornthatWay

Sounds like a busy garden time for you, Winnie.

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## Winnie

Yes indeed, I have to stay out of trouble somehow.

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## Lamewolf

I would take an inventory of what you and your family like and then research on what is the most nutritious from those and then concentrate on planting more of those crops.  Never waste time and space planting things no one will eat or have little food value.  Also, some root crops are easier to store without benefit of electricity.  Fruits are good too but trees take time to mature especially in poor soil.  I would love to have several apple, peach, and pear trees but my soil is so poor it will barely grow grass !  I once lived in town with a small lot that excellent soild.  I was dark rich soil with a very generous population of night crawlers and I planted 2 peach seedlings in it that were full of large juicy peaches in the 4th year - sure would like to have 100 acres of soil like that !

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