# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Livestock and Animal Husbandry >  A Question for Horse People

## BENESSE

Is there a way to ride a horse without having to use a bit? _(I'm not talking bare back like in some old Apache movies)_

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## Aurelius95

Yes.  I don't ride horses, but my wife's family has three.  You can use the reins and  your knees to guide the horse.  In my experience, most horses are trained with a bit, but I know of some where they don't use them.

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## southard

You can use a hackamore it is a stiff leather braided loop with a knot ball on the bottom kinda tear shaped. It goes over the snout and attaches to the reins. It takes some getting used for both the horse and rider. The hackamore applies pressure to points on the horses head depending which way the reins are pulled. Alot more comfortable for the animal, allows them to eat without removing tack or while stopped briefly.

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## Kortoso

I have friends that do jousting. Their hands are too busy to handle reins, so I believe the horses are trained to obey knee cues.

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## LowKey

I was going to suggest the hackamore too.
But don't be fooled into thinking knee control is easy. Even after 5 years of dressage and jumping classes during my high school years, I never was able to control a horse just with knees and posture like the instructor. Both horse and rider have to be trained. And it's harder for the rider.

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## backtobasics

How did the indians do it?

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## SARKY

I'm going to ditto on the Hackamore. As all but my first horse were raised by me, the training of both of us and the getting used to each other took quite quickly. There were times when the damn horse knew what I wanted to do before I did. If you are both trained, leg cues work quite well.

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## BLEUXDOG

The Indians used something called a war bridle. It tied to the lower jaw of the horse.

I ride my horse to work cattle. I use the reins some but sometimes I don't have enough hands so my knees and feet. If you want to see bridleless check it out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4JtW...eature=related

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

I use a bit, but I lead by neck reigning...pretty simple I just lay the reigns on his neck. The opposite of using the bit to command the horse. I use my knee's simultaneously with the neck reign. I trust my horse with my life but do understand his "flight" risk and will have a bit to maintain control if required.

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## southard

Its kinda weird ya brought that up Benesse. My daughter is starting riding lessons tomorrow first time she's gonna be up close an personal with horses. I grew up around them and did rodeo through high school and 2 years after mostly roughstock. When I was akid they said I should do steer wrestling, cause I "oughta be doing something useful on the way down". Turns out I was better at staying on when they were buckin.

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## lefties

bosals are good,voice cues or leg pressure work also. A horse is only as good as his teacher.

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## intothenew

I'm with Cowboy, a bit for emergency. But, a horse can be trained to voice command, draft horses especially.

Gid-up is well known, as well as an associated mouth click. Whoa, as well.

Ever heard of Gee and Haw?

You can practice it if you'll build yourself a Whimmy Diddle. You should see a child's eyes light up when they see one operate. To understand just how it works requires some understanding of resonance, but I digress.

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## Rick

I have one of those. We call them whoopie sticks. The kids do get a kick out of them. They are pretty easy to build with a set of chop sticks and a popsicle stick for the propeller.

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## BENESSE

Here's why I asked;
I am a _huge_ animal lover and care enormously that they be treated right. A friend took her young horse to a trainer to be "broken in" (he has never been ridden) and the A-hole trainer used the wrong bit in his mouth and really injured him. The horse protested from the start, but no one was paying attention; he eneded up with bleeding lacerations inside his mouth and had to be taken to the vet for a long course of treatment. He is betetr now, but he had suffered enormously. 
So I was thinking and trying to tell my friend that there HAS to be a better way. Just because she hasn't done it differently doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How one can love an animal and allow this, is beyond me.

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## BENESSE

> The Indians used something called a war bridle. It tied to the lower jaw of the horse.
> 
> I ride my horse to work cattle. I use the reins some but sometimes I don't have enough hands so my knees and feet. If you want to see bridleless check it out...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4JtW...eature=related


That's exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks, BD!

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## intothenew

Careful of the "breed". Some can, some can't, just like people.

A docile draft is a joy to handle and train, a spirited Mustang is another can of worms.

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## BENESSE

You are so right. Different strokes, as it were...but no reason to hurt them, I would hope.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Mine is a 16 hand Paint Qtr. Horse that thinks he is a stallion and believe me, I am more likely to get hurt than he is.....

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## southard

The horse my daughter rode today responded to whoa and walk on for voice commands. She is a 17 yo quarter I believe a surrender that a  older woman got because she had horses when she was younger but forgot how much work they are. This was the sweetest animal Ive seen in a long time. My daughter was scared at first but fell in love with "Honey" by the end and can't stop talking about her abd riding again. There was also a Black and white Gypsy Baner (so believed cause he was abandoned) stallion  killer horse from what I saw. This place was a rescue and she gives riding lessons to help pay the bills. Right now they have an *** with a bum hoof. named "Jack", that they are trying to raise money for so it can get x-rays and ferrier work done, Run by a wonderful lady  who works with kids, disabled adults, and allows the community onto her property to visit the animals every Saturday. She had some real sad cases on there but they were good animals.

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## cowboy's daughter

You could get some body to pull the horse with a lead rope or you can hold on to it's mane.[if it has one]

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## vahtryn

We trained our horses to take commands based on how you used your knees and heels, but also with a normal bridle as well since they were mostly race horses.  We also would tie a rope around their schnozes as a ghetto bridle every now and then.

A horse wasn't fully trained until it could race, and be ridden without the need of tack.

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## BLEUXDOG

Really I would go with a Bosal until he fully understood what I wanted. It is not known that a hackamore can break the horse's jaw. I have found that a horse works better when he thinks it's his idea. Pat Parelli and Clint Anderson are pretty much the same. Neither wants to BREAK a horse. The Parellis want to be partners with their horse. It seems to work for them. Sometimes my horse wants to be my partner and let me lead, sometimes he wants me to shut up and just enjoy the ride or not. :Whistling: 

I have trained my horse to let me jump on his neck and then he throws me on to his back. This saves me having to find a way to get on him bareback. Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzjuYQQwkt8. It takes time but you can't force it. They do it cause they want to!

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## NorthernCowgirl

As others have said bosals, hacks, neck ropes, war bridles, etc. are all good options; you could just ride in a halter and lead rope too. We start our horses under saddle in a halter and lead rope in a round pen and I would have no problem riding any of our older horses in just a halter either. That being said, a bit is only as harsh as the hands its in and in the wrong hands, even a halter can be harsh.

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## rebel

You can use just a halter.  If they get ornery, a hand full of ear pulled in the direction you want them to go will get their attention.

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## Dink

If you don't have access to a hackamore bit you can make a simple tie down bosal...if your horse is well trained (or snap a couple lead lines to the side rings of a halter). 

A simple strip of leather runs from one side of the bosal over the head behind the ears and down to the other side of the bosal, they both attach to the sides of the bosal so they do not slip up or down. When it is on the horse, they lay about an inch below the eye and flat to the face. The bosal is typically a heavy piece of rawhide, leather, or something similar that goes over the muzzle, above the soft portion of the nose and meets underneath to form a large knot. You can use a simple macate rope, cotton rope, or any other type of soft pliable rope for the reins and tie both ends to the bottom of the bosal, so the bosal knot keeps them in place. Throw it over the head and you have a set of what would be called  "barrel racer reins" This keeps them from falling to the ground if you accidentally let go of them. 

I have had horses this works very well with, even improvised with a mare one time and ripped the sleeve of a flannel shirt up into braided strips to make one and used a strip from a vine for reins. But then, I had been riding and using her for about 12 years (I have been riding and training horses for about 36 years). A tie down Bosal is usually used to keep a horse from throwing its head up and is attached between the front legs to the girth, but in a pinch and with a WELL TRAINED HORSE$, it can be used for a bridle. Just make sure the rider is VERY VERY experienced and the horse is well known and well trained...I have had horses all my life and always remember to BE PREPARED!!! They are a flee animal and even the best trained "bombproof" horse will spook or blow up unexpectedly. This type of head gear gives very little if any control...depending on the animal and the situation.

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## jcullen24

Head Harness, colts are trained this way in a round pen. 

http://www.culturedcowboy.com/saddle...iningEquip.htm

I know people that used head harnesses on mules.

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## equus

If you don't mind me asking what kind of bit was he started in?  I train my own horses and break mine out to ride.  I use a hackamore but when I introduce a bit it is a broken snaffle especially for young horses.  I also use a sidepull which I love.  I have started my 2 year old filly in it and she is doing great.

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## crashdive123

Well hey howdy young lady.  How you been?

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## BENESSE

> *If you don't mind me asking what kind of bit was he started in*?  I train my own horses and break mine out to ride.  I use a hackamore but when I introduce a bit it is a broken snaffle especially for young horses.  I also use a sidepull which I love.  I have started my 2 year old filly in it and she is doing great.


I really don't know and my friend isn't sure. She figured if she took the horse to a professional trainer right from the start she'd be doing the right thing. I don't know much about training horses but I can't imagine hurting them and making them bleed is OK in anyone's book.

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## Wildthang

I dont trust horses, so I'll just stick with my 200 mph sportsbike! The only horse I have ever rode wanted to run as fast as he could and didn't care where I wanted to go, and he found every low hanging limb in the countryside to run under :Scared:

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## crashdive123

That's what happens when you let the two girlfriends train the horse. :Whistling:

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## Wildthang

> That's what happens when you let the two girlfriends train the horse.


 Well Crash that actually happened before I met the girls. It was a freinds horse and he said he was a very gentle horse and was well mannered. I think he actually gave me the craziest horse he had just to see if I could stay on him. I did stay on the horse but only after he almost killed me a couple of times! The son of a gun was even trying to bite me when I finally got off of him! :Scared:

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