# General > General Knives & Blades >  The Vital Ax.

## Sarge47

Nowadays folks like to leave the ax at home and use their knife to split wood by batoning.  I frown on this practice as I believe it places your knife at risk.  One misstep could break the blade.  I'd like to share this with you that I learned many moons ago:

Page 151, chapter 8, "Complete Book of Camping,"  by Leonard Miracle with Maurice Decker. (Outdoor Life, 1961)

"If you were all alone in the woods with only one tool, what tool would you select?To this question the wise woodsman would answer an ax-for the ax is _the_ basic wilderness tool.

"With only an ax a skillful woodsman can build a sturdy shelter--a permanent cabin if need be.  The steel head of the ax will spark a flint to light a fire.  An ax will cut materials to build traps for fish and game.  A man with an ax can build a raft, a dugout, or a canoe.  The cutting edge of an ax can be used to butcher a moose that weighs half a ton or to clean a one pound fish.

"An ax is a formidable weapon in itself, and it will shape the materials needed for a spear or a bow and arrows.  A rifle is just an elaborate club when a vital spring breaks or it's cartridges are gone.  Although ax handles break, the steel head can be used to cut and shape a new handle, and the head will last indefinitely.

"Although modern campers head for the fringes of civilization to have fun, not to struggle for survival, the ax is still a vital camping tool.  In choosing an ax for your particular camping needs, you will be fairly well guided by this rule:  The wilder the country and the longer your trip, the bigger your ax should be."

Food for thought..... :Cowboy:

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## TXyakr

Car camping especially in northern woods in winter take an ax for sure. But if you are backpacking over a long distance in a relatively warm climate there should not be any need to baton anything bigger than about 1/2 inch diameter (1" max) and if done with proper techniques a good quality full tang bushcraft knife can do this just fine. Like all gear it depends on your application or situation. Many small notches are best made with a 5" or smaller blade carefully baton ed. Firewood lasts longer if not split, trees are easier to trip/fell with a saw that is lighter than an ax in some cases, especially standing dead for firewood.

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## Adventure Wolf

That's very true. If you need a knife, you can easily break flint with the flat side of an ax. Never thought of that before.

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## jdbushcraft

I much prefer a knife and saw combo.


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## Sarge47

My knife has specific duties, batoning isn't one of them for several reasons.  

1st, my knife is used for whittling, shaping, cutting, slicing, chopping, but not splitting.  that's what the ax was created for.

2nd, one misstep and you can break your blade.  Everything has to stay just so when batoning, one distraction can cause this to happen.(Murphy's law dogs me like a plague!)  There are axs made nowadays that pack easily as well.

3rd, I seldom split firewood anyway.  I don't own a fireplace or a wood burning stove so there's no need.  Like TX says, firewood lasts longer if not split.(Thinking of a campfire.)

4th, If I were into backpacking, which I'm not, and I felt the need for a spitting tool, I also own a small, lightweight hand ax made by Buck Knives just for that purpose.

5th, I also own several bow saws, both large and small.  Again, like TX says.

6th, I would never split a long log with an ax either, that's what a splitting maul with wedges is for!

7th, I'm a firm believer in "the right tool for the right job.".... :Detective:

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## randyt

yup

You may loan your last dollar to a friend; but never loan him your axe, unless you are certain that he knows how to use it. 
― Horace Kephart

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## DSJohnson

+1 with Sarge47.
Unless it is just completely impossible I always have a small axe in my kit.  Even backpacking I will carry one.   Horse camping in the Pecos Wilderness I used an axe daily.  I carry a "3/4" Hudson Bay style on my pack mule and a small "hand axe" on my riding mule.

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## Seniorman

Here is how I baton firewood.  

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Works everytime.   :Lol: 

S.M.

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## Sarge47

> +1 with Sarge47.
> Unless it is just completely impossible I always have a small axe in my kit.  Even backpacking I will carry one.   Horse camping in the Pecos Wilderness I used an axe daily.  I carried a "3/4" Hudson Bay style on my pack mule and a small "hand axe" on my riding mule.


I like the Hudson's Bay "Tomahawk" head and used to own several.  they're a lot more expensive now.... :Detective:

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## Sarge47

> Here is how I baton firewood.  
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> Works everytime.  
> 
> S.M.


Love it!... :Creepy:

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## hunter63

I'm an axe guy my self.......
Not a baton-er either....unless I truly have to

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## Duece

Im an axe man myself i usually carry a small gerber pack axe in my bag so i idont usually do much batoning last timexi did i broke my buck 410 knife,stupid thing was i had the damn pack axe with me 
D

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## Faiaoga

Different strokes for different folks.  I have certainly used an axe, and I would not leave one behind.  For some environments, though, an axe might be secondary to other tools.  In the tropical Pacific, the bush knife (machete) is the essential tool.  I also remember the Canadian Farley Mowat discussing his assignment studying wolves in the treeless Canadian arctic - he seemed amused that his government agency equipped him with seven axes - when a shovel, a leuku or a machete might have been useful.   :Clown:   He seemed to not always agree with government agencies.






i

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## natertot

I am of the thought that every tool has a purpose and one should use the right tool for the job provided that the right tool is available. Than being said, I have batoned with machetes, fixed blades, and on a couple of very rare occasions I have used a folder. Although possible, that is not how I prefer to do things though. I have a folding saw that I love that works great for cutting up to 5" thick or so and then the axes come into play for larger stuff and for splitting. That is, if I don't forget it......

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## MrFixIt

I might carry a small axe or hatchet if I'm car camping. It usually stays in the vehicle.
I carry a belt knife, folding saw, a machete, and if I need a "chopper", the kukri will be along.
In my AO, an axe wouldn't see much use at all, unless I was chopping down trees to make a cabin or something. (Which I don't need to do). The undergrowth would inhibit the proper swing whereas my machete is better suited for the task.
I could see the usefulness of an axe in old growth hardwood forests, where the undergrowth is minimal.

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## Erratus Animus

I am not an axe guy at all but where I live an axe is a handicap whereas a good machete or large chopper paired with a silky can process wood faster for me , with less calories burned and far less weight in my pack. I am a part time knife maker and focus on users blades and a few high performance steels. I have never broken a knife batonning and I have batoned a lot.  

There are a vast number of techniques available for machetes and large knives that lend them to being pretty versatile that an axe would struggle with or not be the safest tool to choose. 

As said different strokes for different folks makes all the spokes go round and round.

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## Wise Old Owl

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I love this thread

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## TXyakr

What irritates a lot of us is to see some knife reviews on youtube were the the person used poor technique to baton an excessively thick piece of wood for no apparent reason, other than to prove that the knife did not break. Perhaps you need to split some small sticks to get the fire started but splitting logs is generally something done for a cast iron stove or fireplace not a campfire where unsplit is fine or better.
If you are building a cabin then bring a freaking chainsaw and gas cans as well. If in the jungle or similar tropical forest with thick under growth then use a machete, because a short knife and hatchet will drive you crazy. Still need ax for tree roots and large trees if clearing land in the jungle but that ain't survival or a weekend camping trip. That's pioneer living, totally different.

I will note that a large heavy duty knife like the popular Becker BK2 or something bigger can split bigger wood than some tiny ultra light hatchets that I have seen. If the mini ax has no weight I don't understand what use it is. Short handle, little leverage, small wedge. Useless thing will just get stuck in something no point in bringing it. Bring a real ax or something else like a large buck saw, parang, large bush knife etc.

BTW: If in today's world someone told me that they built an entire log cabin with just an ax and no power chainsaw I would assume they were either a liar or an idiot or possibly making a historical docmentary. With the proper attachments to a chainsaw a skilled person can make some fairly good planks out of a felled tree and many other things useful for a cabin. About 60 years ago my father built some airstrips in very remote parts of the jungle of Equador and Peru (joint projects between his organization and lcoal militaries). But as soon as his crew had an big enough area cleared out for an air drop the local air force dropped chainsaws and fuel which sped up the process. Today there are logging roads, air fields, rivers etc very close to just about every bit of land that a person can legally build a cabin on. If you are not using a chainsaw perhaps you are cooking something contraband in your cabin, it does not make sense to me otherwise.

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## finallyME

Sorry, but I disagree. Of course, I think you are comparing apples and oranges.
For car camping.I always use an axe to split big logs.  Big knives arent even big enough.  If you want a good comparisonlook at a froe.  If a froe is too small, then an axe is too small as well, and you need a splitting maul.  Now, the reason why I use an axe to split big logs, instead of a froe is because I dont have a froe.  If I had one, I would use one.  A froe is much better, and much safer.  You have more control and you arent swinging a big heavy blade around with the possibility to glance off and cut your leg.  Now, granted, I always practice good axe safety and the chance of an accident is almost 0%.  But, I also wouldnt have the frustration of balancing a log onto a stump and hoping it stays put while I try and hit it in the right spot.  With a froe, there is no balancing, or trying to hit something.  Much more accurate.
For comparing to a big knife, you have to look at a hatchet, or Bucks lightweight hand axe, which is a hatchet.  Splitting with a hatchet is even harder than with a full size axe.  Anything bigger than 4 inches is too big for a hatchet.  If you are splitting hardwood, you will spend more time trying to unstick the hatchet from the wood then actually swinging the thing.  Plus, swinging a hatchet is more dangerous.  Whenever I use a hatchet, I kneel down to decrease the likelihood of it hitting my leg.  Using a hatchet is even more frustrating than an axe because it is harder to balance the wood piece.  The reason it is harder is because the diameter to length ratio makes it hard.  Also, with the smaller diameter comes a smaller target to hit.  Most people would BATON the hatchet for precise splitting.  A medium sized knife (think Cold Steel SRK size) will easily split a 4 inch piece without the safety risk or the frustration.  Could you break the blade?  There is a chance, but it is VERY small.  Much smaller than the chance of planting the hatchet in your leg.
I would never carry an axe or hatchet while backpacking.  I am already carrying a knife and saw.  Since a hatchet is useless, why carry the weight.  An axe is also too heavy because I would never use it.  If it is larger than 3 inches, I dont need to split it.  The only time I need to split something is if there is no kindling.  That is very rare, but can easily be done with my Helle. I never split anything over 2 inches with my Helle.

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## Sarge47

> Sorry, but I disagree. Of course, I think you are comparing apples and oranges.
> For car camping.I always use an axe to split big logs.  Big knives arent even big enough.  If you want a good comparisonlook at a froe.  If a froe is too small, then an axe is too small as well, and you need a splitting maul.  Now, the reason why I use an axe to split big logs, instead of a froe is because I dont have a froe.  If I had one, I would use one.  A froe is much better, and much safer.  You have more control and you arent swinging a big heavy blade around with the possibility to glance off and cut your leg.  Now, granted, I always practice good axe safety and the chance of an accident is almost 0%.  But, I also wouldnt have the frustration of balancing a log onto a stump and hoping it stays put while I try and hit it in the right spot.  With a froe, there is no balancing, or trying to hit something.  Much more accurate.
> For comparing to a big knife, you have to look at a hatchet, or Bucks lightweight hand axe, which is a hatchet.  Splitting with a hatchet is even harder than with a full size axe.  Anything bigger than 4 inches is too big for a hatchet.  If you are splitting hardwood, you will spend more time trying to unstick the hatchet from the wood then actually swinging the thing.  Plus, swinging a hatchet is more dangerous.  Whenever I use a hatchet, I kneel down to decrease the likelihood of it hitting my leg.  Using a hatchet is even more frustrating than an axe because it is harder to balance the wood piece.  The reason it is harder is because the diameter to length ratio makes it hard.  Also, with the smaller diameter comes a smaller target to hit.  Most people would BATON the hatchet for precise splitting.  A medium sized knife (think Cold Steel SRK size) will easily split a 4 inch piece without the safety risk or the frustration.  Could you break the blade?  There is a chance, but it is VERY small.  Much smaller than the chance of planting the hatchet in your leg.
> I would never carry an axe or hatchet while backpacking.  I am already carrying a knife and saw.  Since a hatchet is useless, why carry the weight.  An axe is also too heavy because I would never use it.  If it is larger than 3 inches, I dont need to split it.  The only time I need to split something is if there is no kindling.  That is very rare, but can easily be done with my Helle. I never split anything over 2 inches with my Helle.


I have also used a froe along with a too.  I would alternate between them, going too and froe!...I slay myself, I really do!... :Laugh:

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## Sarge47

One thing I find interesting is this.  Many on here pride themselves about their knowledge of primitive skills in making and using gear and skills.  An axe could, in all likelihood, be considered a primitive tool.  It is also not a tool that would be used in every environment.  Today knives are made stronger, also we have the invention of the chainsaw as mentioned elsewhere on this thread.  I just find it interesting that, with all theadherence to primitive skills, that some of those same folks don't seem to includ an axe.... :Scared:

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## Winter

Can I see pictures of how you axe guys carry your axes deep into the bush?

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## Sarge47

> Can I see pictures of how you axe guys carry your axes deep into the bush?


This is Illinois, I pack mine in the car.... :Yes:

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## Sarge47

Well...

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Also note how Creek Stewart and his guys carried theirs in "Fat Guys in the Woods:"

http://willowhavenoutdoor.com/featur...the-gear-list/

 :Yes:

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## randyt

here's how I carry my hatchet. I have also carried a axe with a sheath put head down in my packbasket. I have also carried a axe in my right hand for miles on end.

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## DSJohnson

> Well...
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


This is pretty much exactly how I carry mine.  Collapsing/folding saw and sleeping pad on the off side.  I also have a short (8') piece of rope in that bottom pocket just to be handy.

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## Winter

I was trying to differentiate between those who actually carry an axe in the bush and those who don't but still swear by it. LOL

One of my outdoor companions carries one on a pack mounted sheath. 

He likes to point out how awesome his axe is compared to my large knife. I agree with him, HIS axe is awesome. Its most attractive feature is me not carrying it.

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## TXyakr

The axe has been used and carried by primitive humans for thousands of years. I have seen indigenous people used them as a last resort hunting weapon. As a teenager I used the back of one to knock domestic pigs unconscious before cutting their throats, safer than a bullet and more fun. Reason not to carry one is if you are traveling ultra light and fast and only making small fires or none and just a portable shelter such as tarp/tent.

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## Winter

> The axe has been used and carried by primitive humans for thousands of years. I have seen indigenous people used them as a last resort hunting weapon. As a teenager I used the back of one to knock domestic pigs unconscious before cutting their throats, safer than a bullet and more fun. Reason not to carry one is if you are traveling ultra light and fast and only making small fires or none and just a portable shelter such as tarp/tent.


Same can be said for the large knife. To each his own. My gear and gear choices are not theoretical.

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## chiggersngrits

Please explain. I really do not understand why you would waste time and energy splitting wood for an outdoor fire. I can not remember ever splitting wood for camping purposes. If I need smaller pieces of wood, I collect smaller branches , trees etc... Most of the wood I would collect I cut twice as long as it needs to be and let the fire burn it in half.
   Maybe its a "my neck of the woods thing" or maybe I am just lazy but I can not think of a reason to split wood other than maybe making kindling and I have never needed to do so.

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## Rick

The only time I've ever split wood for a fire is if the wood is wet. And trust me, I wasn't splitting cabin logs either. Small stuff to get to dry wood.

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## Wise Old Owl

Winter a good axe can be less than 2 pounds. 

REI

HATCHET

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## chiggersngrits

> The only time I've ever split wood for a fire is if the wood is wet. And trust me, I wasn't splitting cabin logs either. Small stuff to get to dry wood.


   Good point. My wet wood technique is to use a lot more small stuff and keep extra wet logs on or near the fire to dry and use as needed.
 Did not mean to hijack the axe thread, I enjoy looking at your axes and how you tote them.

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## Winter

> The only time I've ever split wood for a fire is if the wood is wet. And trust me, I wasn't splitting cabin logs either. Small stuff to get to dry wood.


I have to do this quite a bit.

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## finallyME

> Winter a good axe can be less than 2 pounds. 
> 
> REI
> 
> HATCHET


The word "good" is very subjective.  One person's "good" is not another person's.  A light axe or hatchet isn't that good because you lose all the benefits of carrying one over a large knife.

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## finallyME

> I have to do this quite a bit.


Knowing your location, I can see you doing this.

Very rarely do we get those conditions here in super dry Utah.

However, I have had to split wood to get a fire going.  I always have to split wood when I go winter camping to a place with no trees and established campsites.  That means I HAVE to bring wood in.  Yes, I could bring in kindling, but sometimes you just forget, and all you have is big stuff.  Now granted, the big stuff is usually already split 4 ways, so quarter logs.  The two times I had to do this, I had an axe and my Cold Steel SRK.  I didn't have a chopping block.  The axe would split the quaters down 1 more time.  But I needed the big knife to split it into small enough pieces.

Once while backpacking I needed to split the wood down small enough for kindling....but this was out of pure, unadulterated, laziness.

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## Jimmy Whisper

Depending on where I'm headed I may just have a knife.  If I think I am going to end up processing any significant amount of wood, at the minimum I take the handle off my hawk and throw the head in my pack.  I can whittle a tomahawk handle in no time and I'm back in business.  As far as Axes go, I love my boy's axe for almost everything and it's packable.

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## Wildthang

I like a good old fashion hatchet with a full sized head, and the fact that it makes a great hammer. When building a tarp shelter where there isn't any tree limbs to use for a ridge pole, or tie off to, I like to drive my support steaks into the ground to keep the wind from blowing the shelter away. If there isn't any rocks around then the hatchet is really good to have around!

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## Midwest Preacher

I use a "Boy's Axe" all the time while out camping. It weighs in at 1.25 pounds with a 24" handle and I don't seem to notice its weight. I do carry a larger knife, about 8" blade length and a smaller knife with a 4" blade. I am very careful of using it as my brother-n-law lopped his toe off when he was a kid. (Need I say more?) I don't split wood for a camp fire, but then again, if I have to make a back wall for my fire, I want a tool that allows me to do that job as quickly as I can. BTW, I like using a 'too' also (too and froe)!!!! You made a funny.

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## Grizzlyette Adams

> Page 151, chapter 8, "Complete Book of Camping,"  by Leonard Miracle with Maurice Decker. (Outdoor Life, 1961)
> 
> "If you were all alone in the woods with only one tool, what tool would you select?To this question the wise woodsman would answer an ax-for the ax is _the_ basic wilderness tool.
> 
> "With only an ax a skillful woodsman can build a sturdy shelter--a permanent cabin if need be.  The steel head of the ax will spark a flint to light a fire.  An ax will cut materials to build traps for fish and game.  A man with an ax can build a raft, a dugout, or a canoe.  The cutting edge of an ax can be used to butcher a moose that weighs half a ton or to clean a one pound fish.


Hunting small game is another fine and dandy use for an axe/tomahawk. 

Throwing a 'hawk (or a knife) accurately is not hard to learn, and is a ton of fun to practice and play with.  I learned how with this book: _Knife and Tomahawk Throwing_ by Harry K. McEvoy. Got it from http://www.crazycrow.com/throwing-knives  (the $4.95 one).

(No, I have never killed anything with it yet, but I know for certain that I could put rabbit meat on the table with it.)

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## Old Professor

Not to hijack this thread but why carry gasoline for a chain saw? I bought an Oregon battery powered chain saw for carrying in my SUV or UTV. No fumes, no fire hazard and safer than an axe! I just had two Spruce trees taken down because Spruce Bud Worm had killed them.  My buddies that were helping me clean up the downed trees initially looked with scorn at the battery powered chain saw but changed their opinions by the time we were done. It worked perfectly for limbing and cutting large branches down to a size that fit into my utility trailer. Also worked on most of the trunk above about ten feet above the ground. I have two lithium Ion batteries for the saw and that would power the saw for a days work. It is also very much quieter than a gasoline chain saw.

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## hunter63

Pssseest.
Great minds think alike.....
Big Red has had a Ryobi battery chain saw in the back for a couple of years....bought it for harvesting fat wood off the deer lease in Louisiana .......just never got taken out.

On board inverter for battery charger and spare battery........Has got me out of a couple of trails with dead fall on them.
And did a lot of trimming on bushes....when I didn't want to gas up, and fill bar oil on the gas saw for a couple of cuts.
Do also carry ax and hatchet as well.......

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## beachbunny

one might like to look at this vintage canadian film

https://www.nfb.ca/film/survival_in_the_bush

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## hunter63

> one might like to look at this vintage canadian film
> 
> https://www.nfb.ca/film/survival_in_the_bush



That's one of my favorite films/vids......some old timer mad skills....Thanks for the reminder.
Any of y'all haven't seen it....worth the time...remember this was  before Bear, Cody, Les, Mike.....and Ruth.

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## beachbunny

right, the real deal!

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