# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Home defense

## remy

Home defense ?

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## doug1980

I just use several claymore mines strategically placed near doors and windows.  If that doesn't work then I have a flamethrower and bazooka to take down even the most harden criminals.  But all the signs in the yard saying "sniper on duty"  and "all tresspassers will be shot, all survivors will be shot again" usually deter everyone....even the UPS man.  Still waiting on that package.....  :Smile:

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## crashdive123

I love coach guns.  I've been looking at gun shows for one that fits.  Another gun show this weekend - wish me luck.

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## Pal334

My favorite, simple, simple and shall I say simple. And works all the time

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## Mountain Man

I'll stick to a shotgun that has more than 2 shots  :clap:

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## crashdive123

> I'll stick to a shotgun that has more than 2 shots


While I love my pump action 12 gauge and my bolt action 12 gauge it is hard to argue with the simplicity of the double barrled coach gun for home defense.

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## crashdive123

> I am interested in your HD choices though...


Currently my EDC (I change them from time to time) is a S&W .40.  Whatever I am using, sits on my nightstand at night.  If there were some sort of civil unrest in the area my choices would provide me with multiple options.

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## Rick

Work on that coach gun just a little bit and you'll have a nice lupara. THE perfect HD weapon and perfectly legal! As far as multiple shots, when you hear that hammer click back I'll bet your ears will perk up. 

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## OICU812

Ah yes, the chop shop version of justifiable homocide -home defense style! Gotta love it!

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## Ken

The 870. This one:

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## Pal334

> Yeah we agree here Pal...I thought it would never happen. lol
> 
> Good luck to Crash.
> 
> HD rarely requires more than 2 shots...especially with a 12 gauge.
> Don't get me wrong, i am a big fan of my 870...but my "next to the bed" tool is my coach gun. 
> 
> I am interested in your HD choices though...


 :Blushing:  You can't be wrong all the time  :Smile:  :clap:  Actually, if it takes more than two shots in an HD scenario, you should have been running anyways

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

I wore out the 870 Dad got me for my first gun. I bought a new one and love the 3 1/2" loads. I also picked up a rifled slug barrel now that is a rifle! I usually top the scoped .270 and 300 at the range with my iron sights, sweet! Home defense with a slug barrel, ouch! and a bit messy.

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## Rick

Yeah, you can drop the intruder, your noisy neighbor and the mooch that lives on the other side of him......just sayin'

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

My trigger finger is well trained in that respect. That is why Canada Geese fly 1 minute before shooting time safely. It is also why the biggest buck i ever saw in my life walked. Just say'in and it isn't my goto gun. just love my 870. Good point one to consider with the .38 Colt I mentioned earlier....

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## Rick

In that case, I require 10 minutes before you start shooting.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Are you an armed intruder?

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## Rick

I was until I heard you rack the round in. My weapon is still laying at the top of the stairs. Just keep it. Consider it payment for any inconvenience you might have been caused.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

That was the bolt to the safe room I was putting myself and my family in. Come on in now I have all of my guns and ammo right here. Well mine was easy i am now arming my 2 girls with their .410's. Ok 10 min. is up where are you?

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## snaplink

The sound of a 12 guage pump racking the slide, everyone knows.  Sometime you don't need to shoot

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## Rick

I caught a cab to the airport. I'm past security so you don't have to worry about me. Thanks for your concern though.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Now all we have to do is get my attack beagle out of the li9ving room ceiling fan.... putting weapons away.....augh the dog had an accident!

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## Mountain Man

> The sound of a 12 guage pump racking the slide, everyone knows.  Sometime you don't need to shoot





> Work on that coach gun just a little bit and you'll have a nice lupara. THE perfect HD weapon and perfectly legal! As far as multiple shots, when you hear that hammer click back I'll bet your ears will perk up.



Your ears will perk up (Rick), and you won't need to shoot (snaplink..) you`ll already be on the ground because the ARMED intruder with a round in the chamber SHOT YOU as you were trying to SCARE HIM with a sound.

I suggest doing research on the whole sound thing that people think is oh-so scary, and then do some research on home invasions and who the primary intruder is... Hint: one that doesn't know or doesn't care or doesn't give a crap about the "sound", bang your dead all the time while loading your "protection". (Druggies)

I strongly suggest a shotgun for protection... however, you sure as hell won't find me w/out a round in the chamber and 7 more to go in the tube. If I only need one or two, AWESOME! If I need 5 more, well they are there w/out having to fumble with shells in the dark.

That's my opinion, and I have nothing against you guys  :Tongue Smilie:   :Tongue Smilie:

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## mcfd45

yea never give your opponent the chance to live.  make soup out of his or her chest.

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## Ole WV Coot

Winchester Defender with half a dozen or more loaded, chamber empty, safety off. Just rack and take the wall down to get a clear shot.

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## welderguy

12ga with 00 buck.

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## Rick

> Your ears will perk up (Rick), and you won't need to shoot (snaplink..) you`ll already be on the ground because the ARMED intruder with a round in the chamber SHOT YOU as you were trying to SCARE HIM with a sound.


You read me wrong, MM. My post was tongue in cheek. I don't use a shotgun for HD. My HD weapon is loaded with one in the chamber and several behind it.

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## Mountain Man

> You read me wrong, MM. My post was tongue in cheek. I don't use a shotgun for HD. My HD weapon is loaded with one in the chamber and several behind it.


AHHH! Well then,  :clap:  heh!

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## Pict

There is nothing wrong with a 12 ga double for defense, backed up with a handgun even better.

In Brazil for a long time Rossi marketed a full stocked 13 inch 12 ga double with a vertical front pistol grip.  This was intended as a home defense weapon.  Our local rolling SWAT team keeps one in the truck and they say it is far more intimidating to the local thugs than even the the submachineguns they also carry.

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(This image has not been photo-chopped in any way)

I would love to have one of these in Brazil but acquiring one legally now is very difficult.  I could buy a 16 ga double with little difficulty but a 12 is another level of legal hassle.  Mac

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## Swamprat1958

I have an 870 with an extension on the magazine.  I carry a 7 shot Taurus .357 as a back-up gun.

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## Pict

> Nice SXS Mac !



That's not mine, it's owned by a friend in Brazil.  Shotguns above 16 ga are strictly controlled.  A 16 ga double is not that hard to acquire but they don't sell 16 ga pumps in Brazil.

In Brazil I only own two .38 handguns, a 5 shot blued J-frame and a 6 shot three inch stainless.  I would love to have a shotgun to defend the old homestead.  Mac

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## glockcop

Rem 870 12g. 18" Improved cyl bore / six shot extended tube with number 6 lead for inside a dwelling. Pattern will be plenty tight within room distance and you won't over penetrate the  perp. or your walls. Back it up with a Glock 9, 40 , or 45. The .357 mag and .357 Sig are VERY loud indoors. Even more than the 12g. Best.

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## HOSSFLY

Mossberg 930 spx,#4 birdshot,buckshot goes through the sheet rock too easy.Could injure inocent people in another room.

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## Rick

Solid core doors with reinforced frames and hardened case screws at least 3 inches long. Pin hinges added for additional strength. If you stop them at the door, the rest is academic.

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## Pict

> Solid core doors with reinforced frames and hardened case screws at least 3 inches long. Pin hinges added for additional strength. If you stop them at the door, the rest is academic.


That's very true.  In Brazil my house/fort has layered security.

By law we have to have a wall around the property.

Our wall is topped by electric fence, normal for our neighborhood.

Two pit bulls roam free in the yard, also normal, flanked by a goat, quite odd.

We have bars on our windows, "Screens for primates".

The house has an alarm system, as does the electric fence.

We have a solid wood security door at the top of the stairs.  If someone gets in at night they won't be able to get at the family easily.  

Anyone trying to breach that door better come with explosives and a stack of armored ninjas backing them up.  Mac

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## Rick

Folks might be interested in how often a firearm is used in a crime versus some other weapon or no weapon at all. For Robbery, no weapon is used almost as often as a firearm. For Aggravated Assault, Hands and Feet and Knives are used nearly as often as a firearm. 

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_15.html

The overwhelming majority of burglaries involve "Unlawful Entry", which means the bad guy entered through an unlocked door or window. Locks don't work if you don't use them. 

It's probably no surprise that the majority of home burglaries occur during the day when most folks are gone and businesses occur at night when most are closed. 

If you understand how most criminals operate, what they use and when they work, you stand a better chance of protecting yourself and your family. Most folks believe that night time is the most dangerous time but statistics show that residential daytime burglaries can go really bad when the criminal walks in while you are there. 

Take some time and read through the FBI's stats. They publish them every year.

The link is above.

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## tacticalguy

The Taurus "Judge" shoots .410 and 45 longcoltGuests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## Mountain Man

> The Taurus "Judge" shoots .410 and 45 longcoltGuests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


So?

Poor self defense weapon if you ask me.

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## canid

yeah, that's more of an offense weapon.

that pistol is kind of offensive to the eye for that matter...

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## Gut shot

> I just use several claymore mines strategically placed near doors and windows.  If that doesn't work then I have a flamethrower and bazooka to take down even the most harden criminals.  But all the signs in the yard saying "sniper on duty"  and "all tresspassers will be shot, all survivors will be shot again" usually deter everyone....even the UPS man.  Still waiting on that package.....


Ok... sooo.. i should take down my tresspassing signs ?

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## hunter63

I'm in the 870 crowd, after the three dogs that is.............

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## Airbus340

Theres allot of savvy people here it seems, here is a question that I am extremely interested in hearing your answer to. 
_
#1 Do you feel we should have firearms in the cockpit with us, as professional commercial airline pilots?_

_#2 If no do you feel we should have any weapons? If so what?_

[_B]#3 If answer to question #1 is No, please explain as detailed as possible, why you believe that?Thanks guy for your help with this, it's a question that i always wondered what majority of people thought, regarding this issue.[/B]_

God Bless
Rob L

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## crashdive123

My answer to #1 is YES!

A while back I was involved in a discussion about this.  One person in the room had stayed out of the discussion for quite a while before stating.  "I don't think pilots should be armed.  What if one of them has a bad day and shoots somebody?"  My response?  You're probably right - they should just put the plane in a steep dive and kill everybody - more efficient that way.  They refrained from continuing in the discussion after that.

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## 2dumb2kwit

My answer to number 1.....Abso-friggin'-lutely!

 I'm with crash....I can't think of any good reason for him/her not to be armed.

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## canid

i feel that if anybody on an airplane should be allowed a firearm it should be the pilot, assuming there would be similar regulation of firearm training/qualification as law enforcement first.

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## Rick

Sorry. I'm a no kind of guy on this one. I trust the crew completely. Otherwise I wouldn't be on the plane. But the last place that a gunfight needs to take place is inside a pressurized tube at 37,000 feet. Can you say rapid decompression? There's "probably" a sky marshal on board. He's in a position to see what's going on and trained to handle exactly that situation. I would prefer to have my pilot doing what he does best and the let the sky marshal do his thing...repeatedly if necessary. I might be completely wrong but I just think there's less of a chance one of the little bullet thingies will go sailing through the skin of the aircraft and out into space with me right behind it.

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## glockcop

Airbus, Yes you should be armed but also well trained. You should be every bit as proficient with your firearm as you are at operating the aircraft. If there were more well trained armed personell on the 9-11 planes they may not have gone down. As you know aircraft "raipid decompression" from a firearm is a mythological beast. IT DOES NOT EXIST! The tiny holes from a pistol are not large enough to "rapidly" do anything but ventilate a potential terrorist. I recommend MAG SAFE ammo for this mission by the way. It has very low overpenetration characteristics. Here is one other issue to ponder. There ARE NOT Air Marshals on the majority of flights inside the U.S.A. I happen to know a few of them. Don't count on them to be there to save your butt. In fact I wouldn't count on anybody to save my prescious solid gold, diamond studded a$$. The moral of the story: GET WELL TRAINED AND PACK A LEAD SPEWING TERRORIST SHREDDER! Hundreds may depend on you one day. Take care brother.

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## Rick

But....I......Are you sure? 


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...nver-charlott/


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## crashdive123

I was in Hawaii when that happened.  Saw the plane up close - or as close as we could get.  The pilots and aircrew in that one did an amazing job.

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## glockcop

Rick, That sure ain't from no pistol brother. That you can take to the bank! The old oriental lady in the middle there just had some HOT Louisiana red beans before the flight......LADY: Riiiiiiiiiippp, Did I do that,...Sorry.

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## crashdive123

Actually it was an Aloha Airlines flight - 737 if I remember correctly.  Metal fatigue and corrosion were determined to be the cause.  Happened in 1988.

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## Ole WV Coot

Well I don't remember the ride from the house to the airport but, Yes the pilot and anyone in the cockpit should be trained and armed. I mean not only how to use a firearm but the psychological, darn that's a long word! implications as not opening the cabin or surrendering if one of the crew or a passenger is threatened with death if they don't open the door or surrender their weapons. Now I have doubts if a firearm could be brought on to begin with. I've said it before, I am decent in combat but my favorite weapon is a good cane or walking stick. Only thing I know that can be carried anywhere and I don't need one but I have had some training, enough to take out anything but a firearm. I have never been questioned anywhere with it. Before you laugh best do a little research, I never train for fun.

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## glockcop

Ole coot, I can attest to the usefulness of a walking cane to protect your parts. Years ago as a Patrolman I responded to a call of a thwarted armed robbery with the perp still on scene. Well, this dirt bag decided to rob an old man at knife point. Things did not go so well for the perp. The old man handed this yougster his a$$ on a platter and held him at bay (perp on the ground) until officers arrived. I asked Mr. Sh*t bag why he didn't run. He responded, "Cause that old bastard would have hit me sumore, Vatto :Smash: . Isn't irony cool :Cool2: .

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## SARKY

I'm a Mossy 500 kinda guy, loaded with Aqilla shorty shot shells, a mix of bird and buck. Where my Mossy normally holds 8 shells, with the shorty shells, it holds 12. Backup is a Ruger SP101 in .357

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## kx250kev

Pilots armed, yes, but I'd hope that they use special fragmentation bullets for use inside an airplane?  Powdered core or something that won't breech the hull..anyone..?

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## mccaw69

12 ga. mossburg defender,20" bbl.,6 shot tube,loaded with 00 buck,shoved in between the mattress and box springs,my side of the bed. :Sneaky2:

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## Airbus340

I'd like to laugh at that CrashDive but a very good friend of mine was killed on Egypt Air 990 in 1999, my friend was the pilot PF, he got up to use the restroom, when he got back ,the F/O did just that. the F/O put plane into a dive after shutting off the A/P , started yelling Allah Akbar over and over and crashed by Nantucket  :Frown:  It was incredibly sad. All souls were lost. But you are absolutely right, have an aircraft traveling at Mach .81 no gun necessary. Sad but fact.  :Frown:  They actually said it was mecanical failure yet the CVR said the whole story word for word. You can read the transcript.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=19991031-0

Rob L




> My answer to #1 is YES!
> 
> A while back I was involved in a discussion about this.  One person in the room had stayed out of the discussion for quite a while before stating.  "I don't think pilots should be armed.  What if one of them has a bad day and shoots somebody?"  My response?  You're probably right - they should just put the plane in a steep dive and kill everybody - more efficient that way.  They refrained from continuing in the discussion after that.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

I don't beleive you have demonstrated the mental competency to even own a firearm.

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## SARKY

Hell yes they should be armed! But then I think that any lawabiding US citizen with a CCW should be able to be armed on the flight as well.

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## Airbus340

> I don't beleive you have demonstrated the mental competency to even own a firearm.



And you have? It's prejudicial, remarks like that without having much to go on but a persons basic eyebrow raising at an event that occurred. I didn't say anything happened or didn't happen exactly as stated. But you have the audacity to say, I don't have the mental competency to own a firearm. Well I have a ****load of people far more competent than you to say I do, so are you saying your more qualified than them?

 If so then you got bigger problems than you think and you may want to look inward first. I hold people you have loved and cared about your whole life everyday I go to work in my hands, and I might add deliver them back to you the same way as they left. Hell its people like you that say, oh look all them purdy lights, can I come into your shiny cockpit Capt and take a look see? You can put me on ignore any time. And if you boot me for this your all hypocritical, because I have seen people here with 1,000 plus posts say what the hell they want, and people 3 get stepped on. Well I'm not one to step on, you want thick skin you got it. OK so you don't like my eyebrow raising at the 911 Thing Big %$&$& deal! Thats all it is is eyebrow raising not advocation, I was just curious to see where this group stood. 

But to start insulting me in other posts is absolute BS. So understand the western world was based on opinions that differ from one another, not the suppression of it. You all want to be patriotic people stand up for whats right, use the constitution etc and yes I am Dual citizen US and Canadian then respect peoples right to have opposing views and defend that right.
I have many friends that are LEO federal, local, airport, customs, US Dept HS, as well as fire fighters and rescue. I respect every job as a link in the chain, please have some respect on a human level. If someone differs slightly from your opinion or greatly to respect that and appreciate that difference, sets us apart from the animals that you trap. So get back to the topics you created for this forum and stop acting like the bully on the block.Cause your not getting my lunch money but you may get a kick in the nuts and a busted nose for your trouble.And Cowboy you may want to put a screen over your mouth, to catch the stupid **** that falls out of it.


The rest of you who offered constructive ideas and suggestions, thank you for those points
upon discussing this at length with my fellow pilots and staff, I'll be sure to inject your thoughts as part of that discussion. You have certainly made some excellent suggestions. Much appreciated ,I assure you. As far as my opinion, I'm still up in the air about it, because I feel many things could go wrong. I believe the new cockpit door systems we have are the absolute best deterent, for now.And believe me the system is extremely good. We have had professionally trained FBI and RCMP tactical teams do breaching tests and couldn't enter.


And yes Explosive decompression will not occur because of a bullet breaching the fuselage. You would need to have an explosion to do that. A bullet hole could literally be sealed with chewing gum (No Joke) As far as Aloha, it was metal fatigue along a riveted section , that should have been doubled rowed and wasn't. This caused stress fractures along that fault line. When continually, pressurized and depressurized, the continual stress put on the metal, caused it to completely fail. This could never been caused by anything short of an explosion of significant size.
Rob L

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## Ken

WARNING!  Colorful Brooklyn language:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA8x_YypfjA

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## Airbus340

hahaahaha Now that is something Ken, I agree with  :Smile: 

Rob L





> WARNING!  Colorful Brooklyn language:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA8x_YypfjA

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## lucznik

> Sorry. I'm a no kind of guy on this one. I trust the crew completely. Otherwise I wouldn't be on the plane.


I'm with Rick on this one.  The pilots, navigators, etc. are all nowadays locked behind thick metal doors and they should not be opening said doors for any reason while in flight. Having a gun will prove useless to them as a result. 

Also, I'm not so sure pilots are necessarily qualified or psychologically prepared for the stresses of gunfighting.  Yeah, they deal (occasionally) with life-and-death stressors in their jobs, but those stressors are of a completely different type than facing down a terrorist with a gun/bomb/whatever.

If we want/need someone armed on the plane, then we should be hiring/training more Air Marshals, who would be in the passenger cabin along with all the sheeple and more able to engage in interdictive actions without endangering the ability of the plane to safely continue on to its intended destination.

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## Rick

The air marshal on my last flight was pretty easy to pick out...

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## crashdive123

<<<Shakes his head>>>  That boy ain't right.

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## Ken

> <<<Shakes his head>>> That boy ain't right.


Let's make it 2 in 1 day.  Ban him, Crash!   :clap:

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## 2dumb2kwit

Well....I guess Ken will like that picture.....while he's enjoying his "Clam boil". :Innocent:

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## crashdive123

My record is 6.  Don't push it. :Lol:  :Lol:  :Lol:

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## Ken

I meant 3 in 1 day! Him too. 2dumb.  Ban him, too, Crash!  :Sneaky2:

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## kx250kev

> The air marshal on my last flight was pretty easy to pick out...
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Is that Sean Connery from the lost 007 movie named "Lead Flinger"?  Talk about a "wardrobe malfunction". :Lol:

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## ieatcrayons

> Is that Sean Connery from the lost 007 movie named "Lead Flinger"?  Talk about a "wardrobe malfunction".


nope the movie was Zardoz.  i liked it..  but it sure wasn't for everyone.

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## hunter63

Is that  Nagant 1895, 7.62 he's holding, funny pistol for a funny movie?

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## glockcop

Maybe a Webley. Hard to tell. My monitor does not have the best resolution, thank God.

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## kx250kev

> nope the movie was Zardoz.  i liked it..  but it sure wasn't for everyone.


OMG, you mean that really IS Sean Connery?  :Tongue Smilie:

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## Rick

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/

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## TangoFoxtrot

Like Rick said earlier. You have to watch where fired rounds inside your home may wind up.

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## Old GI

For HD and other personal protection, we have CCWs and:

His:  870 with 20" barrel and 8-round mag extension, kept by bedstead.  Used to have empty chamber to allow racking noise; changed my mind, the bad guys don't need a warning.  Also Colt Officers model in chest holster, 10/22 with 6X and two 50 round mags (Can't shoot my "real" rifles due to the shoulder surgeries), Ruger Single-Six, etc.

Hers:  Mossberg 500 in .410 with 18.5 inch barrel.  Colt Mustang (.380)

Practice on small range on property about every other weekend in most weather.

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## Old GI

Real mixed feelings.  Part of the original justification was "they have been in the military...".  I don't know a single jet jockey that had real handgun trainig, I don't count a .38 shot every few years, if that.  Also, the comment about keeping the flight deck locked is something I believe in; I have further said to make a separate entrance to the flight deck from outside, not inside.  BUT, the comment that any CCW carrier should be able to have one is spot on.  Has there been a skyjacking since 9/11?  They know it won't just be a free ride to Cuba anymore.

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## oldsoldier

Mossberg SD loaded with 9 rounds of fletchette rounds.

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## Rick

We had a home invasion and burglary near here yesterday. Two men went into a home where a woman was six months pregnant. Fortunately, she wasn't hurt. 

I also learned today that a guy I went to school with was killed in Venezuela earlier this year in a home invasion robbery gone bad. He wasn't a close friend, just someone I knew.  

Keep those weapons close and loaded.

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## BStreet18

> The sound of a 12 guage pump racking the slide, everyone knows.  Sometime you don't need to shoot


A Little Red Dot works well also.  It's a universal language

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## Beo

I got news for ya, any shotgun that is sawed off shorter than 16 inches is illeagel in all 50 states.
To get immediately to the heart of the matter, based on long personal experience, I generally have little use for a shotgun with a barrel less than 28 inches long for hunting flying game (upland or waterfowl), or for shooting aerial targets ("clay pigeons"). 
The Law:
The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § Section 5845(a)(2) defines the term "firearm" to include, as relevant here, "a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length is Illegal. Violating the law results in a $2,000 fine, 5 years imprisonment, or both.

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## aflineman

> I got news for ya, any shotgun that is sawed off shorter than 16 inches is illeagel in all 50 states.
> The Law:
> The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § Section 5845(a)(2) defines the term "firearm" to include, as relevant here, "a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length is Illegal. Violating the law results in a $2,000 fine, 5 years imprisonment, or both.


Unless your state allows it and you jump through a few hoops; plus pay a $200 tax to the ATF. (Then wait, and wait, and wait for said tax stamp). But, if it is cap & Ball, you don't have to even do that (as long as local laws allow).

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## Pal334

> I got news for ya, any shotgun that is sawed off shorter than 16 inches is illeagel in all 50 states.
> To get immediately to the heart of the matter, based on long personal experience, I generally have little use for a shotgun with a barrel less than 28 inches long for hunting flying game (upland or waterfowl), or for shooting aerial targets ("clay pigeons"). 
> The Law:
> The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § Section 5845(a)(2) defines the term "firearm" to include, as relevant here, "a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length is Illegal. Violating the law results in a $2,000 fine, 5 years imprisonment, or both.


Not really news. Just pay the tax and you are in business. Makes a handy dandy little tool. Otherwise 18 inch does a fine job as a HD shotgun

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## glockcop

18'' barrel is the min legal NFA legnth w/o tax for a Shotgun. 16'' barrel for a rifle. Both must be a min of 26'' total legnth. Clearing up some confusion out there. DO NOT violate. The Feds don't play around with this! Best.

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## Beo

True just ask Randy Weaver of the Ruby Ridge incident, took place around the same time as Wacco and that nut job. He sold an undercover agent a shotgun with a barrel length just shy of 16 inches making the total just shy of 26, we're talking less than a half inch and got popped for it, then the whole incident blew up into the Ruby Ridge thing.

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## TangoFoxtrot

Home defense is an Rem. 870 and the stones to pull the trigger!

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## AVENGED

Just Rig The Plane With Gas To Put Everyone To Sleep.

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## dscrick

9 rounds out the dangerous end in less than 2 seconds

Bennelli M1 Super 90

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## crashdive123

Dang Shipmate - you need to practice so that the first round hits its mark.  :Lol:

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## dscrick

Crash is correct, A hit is worth a thousand misses (I can hit BTW).

But hey, sometimes you just need to lay down some suppressive fire!

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## crashdive123

*Second Bad Guy to Third Bad Guy:*  Holy Moley!  What's he doing now?

*Third Bad Guy to Second Bad Guy:*  Reloading!  Run!

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## Batch

Sig P226 in .40 by the bed. Use that as a time buyer to get to my Mossberg 590.

I might have to rethink my system though. I got a new born granddaughter. So I'll have to figure out something for when she gets mobile.

Anybody, got a system that involves small kids in the house?

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## Rick

In my pocket when they are around. Put up and locked otherwise. There is just no way to be too careful.....if I had any, of course.

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## xj2000

I keep close by at home a Winchester 1300 18inch barrel shotty, with a folding pistol grip stock and a flashlight mounted to the mag.  Many would argue the effectiveness of a shotgun for home defense, but I'm a big fan of shotguns.  But I also keep a mag loaded for my AR just in case.

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## Rick

Many would argue the fine benefits of an introduction. 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=7813

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## xj2000

oh sorry.....

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