# General > General Guns & Ammo >  .357 Magnum, 9mm +P+, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP?

## sgtdraino

I'm interested in deciding which of these 4 rounds is best overall for wilderness survival applications. *Not* best of *all rounds*, just which is the best of *these four*.

My inclination is to gravitate towards .357/.38, because it is a common round to acquire, relatively inexpensive, relatively small (so you can carry more ammo), but has some serious target-stopping capabilities, particularly if fired through a carbine. Of course, this is a revolver round, so your firearms choices are basically confined to revolvers and lever-action carbines.

Next I am partial to 9mm +P+, for basically the same reasons as .357/.38. I think I heard +P+ can approach velocities somewhat similar to the .357 (though I'm not positive). Of course this is a semi-auto cartridge, so you'll be confined to handguns and carbines of that type. Quite a bigger variety of brands and styles than with a revolver cartridge, though.

Next comes .40 S&W, which I'm considering both because I own a handgun and carbine in that caliber, and also because I've heard a couple people here on the forum that are partial to it. In my experience, .40 S&W is somewhat costlier and harder to find than .9mm or .357, but perhaps it is becoming cheaper and more common with its wide acceptance by law enforcement. I think last time I was in Wal-mart, I was surprised to see it priced the same as .357.

Last comes .45 ACP, which I include mostly because I have heard a few people on this forum favor this round. I tend *not* to, mostly because it's a big bullet (can't carry as much), and it's pretty slow (not as much range, not as flat a trajectory). But hey, I could be wrong!

So what do you guys think? I tend to agree that .22lr is probably the best overall survival round, but I feel I should have at least one other serious caliber on-hand for situations that a .22lr is just not likely to handle well.

Your thoughts?

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## Sourdough

I like the reliability of a wheel gun. I also like "not" leaving spent cases behind for those who are employed to solve riddles. So I vote .357 Mag. w/ 200 gr. Hard Cast Corbon Ammo. 

The "TOOL" that lives in the right rear pocket of my Carhartt Logger pants is 3" S&W M-60.

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## Pal334

_Last comes .45 ACP, which I include mostly because I have heard a few people on this forum favor this round. I tend not to, mostly because it's a big bullet (can't carry as much), and it's pretty slow (not as much range, not as flat a trajectory). But hey, I could be wrong!_

I am a .45acp guy. And probably for all the reasons you mention that you do not to favor it.[_B] WeightB]_ = I don't carry more than 10-20 rounds except under extreme conditions. _Big Bullet_ = The bigger the better :Smile: . _Pretty Slow_= As Cooter may agree, you don't have to be fast to be lethal.
I do agree with your 22lr comment, probably would be one of my first choices.

And what a boring world it would be if we all agreed 100% of the time. It would sure limit our ability to learn from each other. :Wink:

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## Ole WV Coot

45 acp. My carry gun. I have and own the others, carried them at times. I like the S&W Mod 60, and the Walther PPK/S 380 but we don't grow anything the 45 won't stop. Kinda like slapping a guy or hitting him with a baseball bat, I like the bat. The mag for mine holds 8 rounds of Federal Personal Defense, works for me at the ranges I would use.

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## Leighman

My vote goes to the .38/.357 for its versatility.

6 rounds of .38 Spl. (SWC non +P) for recoil senstive folks beats a sharp stick any day. 

CCI Snake loads from a 4-inch tube will dispatch those slithering critters for the pot (within a realistic range, of course).

.357 115/125 gr. JHP STILL has a proven track record against two-legged critters.

As mentioned, the compatibility with a lever gun never hurts. 

Availabilty. Every country store I've ever been to that sells any ammo stocks something in .38/.357.

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## Pict

It is hard to beat the .38/.357 for versatility.  My normal carry gun is a Kahr K-9 9mm, but for woods carry I switch to a 2.5 inch Model 19 .357 magnum.  With an assortment of ammo it will take everything from small game up to close range (think tree stand range) shots on white tailed deer.  They handle shot shells, wad cutters, +P .38 special, or .357 magnum up to 180 grains.  Ammo is widely available and the gun will work well for self defense.

Another advantage of the revolver is that you can split the load and manually select what you want to shoot if things change.  You can set it up with two target wadcutters in the cylinder and leave it with your SD ammo set to come on line first.  That way if you spot a game animal you can simply open the cylinder and bring the wadcutters on line to hunt.  In snake country you can leave it with two shotshells set to go off first and the rest either hunting or SD ammo depending on conditions.  At night or coming across bear sign you can reload it with all heavy .357 ammo.  

One thing I do with mine is to leave it fully loaded with .357 magnum "bear loads" but carry my speedloaders with +P .38 special.  I figure if I need to speed load the gun, I'm in a gunfight and would rather have the control of the +P .38s.  Mac

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## larmus

personaly i like the .45 myself, i have owned numorous .45's in many makes and models but have always gravitaited towards the 1911 models... just enjoy shooting them over all the rest... good stopping power, good for medium sized to large game if needed... the other calibers mentioned may have better qualities but why shoot twice when you only need to shoot once...

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## chiye tanka

While I love the .40, I've gotta go with the .357 for the woods. Like Hope said, the wheel gun is more reliable and the only company that makes or did make a revolver in .40 is S&W. That there .357 is a jack of all trades and is hard to beat for all around usefulness.

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## Pal334

I have two 1911's (no fancy stuff). They always work, and are comfortable. Even took one to the sand box ( sssh  Doug don't tell any one  :Smile:  ) Always easy to get ammo and is not particular what it / they eat. I agree with Coot, there isn't much around that a good 45acp won't put down or at least wear out .  Having said that I see that many have differing opinions and good reasons for their choices.

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## FVR

There is not a box for non of the above.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...................................

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## Leighman

> There is not a box for non of the above.
> 
> Hmmmmmmmmmmm...................................


I thought the same thing! 

The Glock 20 in 10mm can be versatile as can the 44 spl/mag combo.

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## SARKY

I will have to go with the .357. Stoke it wih a hot hardcast Keih style semi wadcutter and I would have no problem wih going up against a Black Bear nor any of he other game animals on is continent with the exception of Griz, that might be just a tad light for Griz. I have 2 Ruger single action Revolvers, one in chambered in 38-40 with a 10mm cylinder and the other is chambered in 38-40 with a .40 SW cylinder. both are fun gus.

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## Tuckahoe

Given the above choices I would go with the .357/.38 above the others. 
I have serious reservations on using the .45 ACP on dangerious animals. While working for the sheriff's office in 2001 I was attacked by a large angry rottweiler that soaked up round after round of 185 gr hollowpoints. In the end the dog had been hit eight times, chest, shoulders 2x, upper front legs, and snout before he backed off. None of the bullets made full penetration. If you believe something is knocked off its feet when hit by a .45 Im sorry it just don't happen that way. I was a tried and true .45 guy until that day. This did motivate the department to switch to a 230gr +p round but at this time there have been no other shootings with the new ammunition. 
I like the .44 magnum better than the above besides the fact that it also fits my Marlin 1894 lever action it also does shot shells, shoots .44 specials and full power magnums. Choice of handgun is the S&W 29

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## SARKY

I have to agree that if given the choice , I would prefer the .44 to the .357.  No matter which of these 2 calbers you pick the revolver barrel length should be no less than 4 inches. I might also reccomend the .41 magnum, for those of us who reload I also load .41 special and shot shells. I have a Ruger Bisley Hunter 7.5 inch barrel, a Taurus total titanium Tracker 4 inch barrel, and a Marlin 1895Fg all in .41 mag. With that combo I wouldn't be afraid of anything roaming the woods of North America.

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## RBB

I've carried and used all of these calibers on duty, over the years.  We now carry the .40 cal, and I like this caliber very much because it has stopping power (dealing with people), the guns have high capacity magazines, and if you shoot at a bad guy, it isn't as likely as some calibers to hit something (or someone) behind the bad guy you are shooting at.

I've shot bears using a Colt .45 ACP - and also using  .45 long Colt.  Neither of these rounds did the bear in - eight shots with the .45 Colt Auto and five shots with the .45 long Colt.  In each case I had to get very close and shoot the bear in the brain box.  With the .357 I never had problems like this.  I've actually had better luck killing bear with a 9MM than the .45 ACP.

One drive by shooting employing a .357 mag - five of six bullets passed completely through the house being shot at.  The sixth bullet was found in the exterior wall - opposite the side of the building where it entered.  For penetration - the .357 mag is the best gun of those listed.  

For "wilderness" use, there is no question.  The .357 mag would be the caliber to have on hand.

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## chiangmaimav

My favorite gun for wilderness back in the states was a Model 66 F-comp from S & W performance center. It was stainless with 3 inch barrel and I used to do same as Pict and loaded it with .357 rounds and carried .38+Ps in speedloader. I never had to shoot a bear with this, or any other gun for that matter, so I can't say how it would work in that situation. By the way, if you like revolvers and 9mm,  Ruger used to make 9mm revolvers as I believe did Smith also but I am not sure if they still do.

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## doug1980

> I have two 1911's (no fancy stuff). They always work, and are comfortable. *Even took one to the sand box ( sssh  Doug don't tell any one  )* Always easy to get ammo and is not particular what it / they eat. I agree with Coot, there isn't much around that a good 45acp won't put down or at least wear out .  Having said that I see that many have differing opinions and good reasons for their choices.


How did you manage that.  Getting it there is easy but getting it home HOW!?  I was issued two switchblade type knives and Navy Customs only let me keep one.  Plus the post office would search every crevace of my packages.

Any way back on topic I am currently in the market for something to carry while out.  I currently own a 9mm Beretta and a Taurus 9mm but was looking at a Springfield 1911 .45 ACP.  I'm not a huge fan of revolvers, but will use this thread as a tool to help me decide.  The wife wants me to carry one to stop bears, can't bring myself to tell her no handgun will stop a determind bear.  False sense of security I guess.

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## crashdive123

> How did you manage that.  Getting it there is easy but getting it home HOW!?  I was issued two switchblade type knives and Navy Customs only let me keep one.  Plus the post office would search every crevace of my packages.
> 
> Any way back on topic I am currently in the market for something to carry while out.  I currently own a 9mm Beretta and a Taurus 9mm but was looking at a Springfield 1911 .45 ACP.  I'm not a huge fan of revolvers, but will use this thread as a tool to help me decide.  The wife wants me to carry one to stop bears, can't bring myself to tell her no handgun will stop a determind bear.  False sense of security I guess.


Try this thread for some ideas.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...oncealed+carry

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## Pal334

> How did you manage that.  Getting it there is easy but getting it home HOW!?  I was issued two switchblade type knives and Navy Customs only let me keep one.  Plus the post office would search every crevace of my packages.
> 
> Any way back on topic I am currently in the market for something to carry while out.  I currently own a 9mm Beretta and a Taurus 9mm but was looking at a Springfield 1911 .45 ACP.  I'm not a huge fan of revolvers, but will use this thread as a tool to help me decide.  The wife wants me to carry one to stop bears, can't bring myself to tell her no handgun will stop a determind bear.  False sense of security I guess.


 :Wink: Can't give out all my trade secrets  :Big Grin: . It does help to know the supply NCO and just slip it into the armory pallet .  Remember, _if ya ain't cheatin, ya ain't trying_. In my humble opinion there is nothing better than a basic 1911 and that is based on about 30 years of carry and use. But as you can see there are many knowledgable folks here that have different opinions.

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## sgtdraino

> I like the .44 magnum better than the above besides the fact that it also fits my Marlin 1894 lever action it also does shot shells, shoots .44 specials and full power magnums. Choice of handgun is the S&W 29





> I have to agree that if given the choice , I would prefer the .44 to the .357.


Ah, I should have included a .44 Magnum option in the poll! I didn't think to, mainly because I don't own any .44 Magnum weapons as of yet. I tend towards .357 more due to (like with .45) the additional size and weight of .44 Magum ammunition. Also, my impression is that .44 is again a fair bit more expensive than the other four rounds mentioned in the poll. Am I wrong?

What about availability? is .44 as easy to acquire as .357/.38?

I think most *would* agree that .44 Magnum significantly out-performs all of the rounds in this poll, .357 included. Is that performance enough to outweigh all potential disadvantages? (size/weight/cost/availability)

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## klkak

For woods carry I choose my S&W 629 4" with an assortment of loads.  For personal defense I choose my Glock 23 with 2 extra hi-cap mag's loaded with any manufactures top end personal defense 180 gr. hollow points.  It's not choosy it'll shoot any 180 gr. load.  I have Winchester SXT's in it now.

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## tsitenha

Yes, it was not on the list but a S&W 629 in .44Rem mag would be my choice.

Now in Kanata they won't allow us to carry pistols in the bush, unless you qualify and those permits are very specific to where and who can carry them.

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## chiangmaimav

From most of what I have read the .44 magnum is the smallest caliber which is adequate for bear defense. For black bears maybe .357 but grizzlies you need .44 magnum. There is also now the .500 S & W for real stopping power if you don't have to worry about the extra weight. .44 magnum ammo is readily available and for cheaper target ammo use .44 special as they will work in magnum.

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## sgtdraino

> From most of what I have read the .44 magnum is the smallest caliber which is adequate for bear defense.


From what I have read, the bear spray is more effective than any handgun for bear defense. So unless I'm planning to hunt and eat bear, dunno if that would be a consideration for my choice of caliber.

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## tsitenha

Well if hunt and eat it a little pepper would help the taste :Big Grin:  :EEK!:

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## crashdive123

Actually, I believe the best defense against bears is being knowledgeable about them and aware of your surroundings.......kind of like any environment you find yourself in.

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## klkak

> From most of what I have read the .44 magnum is the smallest caliber which is adequate for bear defense. For black bears maybe .357 but grizzlies you need .44 magnum. There is also now the .500 S & W for real stopping power if you don't have to worry about the extra weight. .44 magnum ammo is readily available and for cheaper target ammo use .44 special as they will work in magnum.


The only thing that makes the .44 mag suitable for bear protection is the fact that most folks can't handle anything bigger.  Pepper spray is by far better for bear protection then any handgun.  I have commented on this many times in these forums from first hand experience.

The only thing a hand gun is good for in a bear attack is it allows you to shot the bear while he is on top of you biting your face off. Or, If you get to the point where you can no longer stand the sound of your flesh ripping or you bones being crunched then you can shoot yourself.

Oh and .44 special cost just as much as .44 magnum.  It just don't recoil as much.

I have 2 lever action .44 magnum's in my house loaded with .44 special CCI Blazer hollow points. (in case of a zombie attack)

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## catfish10101

If you are already carrying a .22lr anyway, I would go with the biggest round (for greatest stopping power, or biggest hole) I can get. I just bought my first .45 acp, and only shot 2 clips through it, but I like it. I got the Taurus 24/7 PRO SS model. I chose it over the Ruger (which was what I went in there to buy that day) because the mags hold 12 rounds and the ruger mags hold 8. I also bought 200 rounds of FMJ and 20 rounds of Hydrashocks for it. I would have gotten the .50 cal Desert Eagle but didn't want the old lady to use it on me. LOL.

Bears are best avoided by not suprising them and storing your food properly among other things. Shooting a bear may only prove to make it kill you before it dies. 

Remember, you have the .22lr for survival hunting and such, you need a "protector" for them cougars or 2 legged snakes, or whatever else is in your area (besides bears, wear bells for them).

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## SARKY

Look I think that the .45 acp is the best there is for the 2 legged predators., but for a survival/hunting senario is is so less than ideal. If it were all I had I wouldn't complain, but if given the choice between a .357 or a .44 and the .45acp there is no choice. The number of bullet options alone limits what you can do with the .45. I can have bullet weights from 110 grains up to 200 grains with the .357 and the .44 gives me bullet weights from 160grains to 265 grains

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## chiangmaimav

I never owned a .44 magnum or have even fired one. I did used to have a Taurus .41 magnum with a short barrel and it had manageable recoil. Even though I did used to travel in bear country in US sometimes I never encountered a bear which was fine by me, si I am no expert on bears. Pepper spray is supposed to be good but best thing is probably not get close enough to bears to need it.

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## Sarge47

> There is not a box for non of the above.
> 
> Hmmmmmmmmmmm...................................


Same here, I decline to vote. :Cool:

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## sgtdraino

> Same here, I decline to vote.


Not really applicable. The question is asking which *of the four rounds listed* is best. Not best of all rounds everywhere, just best *of these four*. Unless you think all four of these calibers are equally crappy (or great), then I'd think you'd have an opinion and would be able to vote.

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## Sarge47

> Not really applicable. The question is asking which *of the four rounds listed* is best. Not best of all rounds everywhere, just best *of these four*. Unless you think all four of these calibers are equally crappy (or great), then I'd think you'd have an opinion and would be able to vote.


Like I said, the answer to your question is "none of the above".  I use .22 LR myself!  I think it's the best! :Cool:

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## sgtdraino

> Like I said, the answer to your question is "none of the above".  I use .22 LR myself!  I think it's the best!


So, just to clarify, you think that .357 is no better or worse than, say, 9mm when it comes to survival applications?

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## Sarge47

> So, just to clarify, you think that .357 is no better or worse than, say, 9mm when it comes to survival applications?


I've never used either one so I have no frame of reference to honestly answer that question.  Given the rising cost of center-fire ammunition, I don't for-see buying either weapon in the future.  However, for the sake of this discussion, in the highly unlikely event that someone had offered to buy me the pistol of my choice along with all of the ammo I'd ever desire I'd pick the .357 over the 9mm any day of the week & twice on Sunday!  The 9mm has less stopping power than the .357, obviously.  However, my weapon of choice would probably be a Springfield Arms 1911 .45 ACP simply because I've always liked it & wouldn't mind owning one; & that's the ONLY reason, not because I think it's a superior "Survival" round.  I think that you'll get a variety of answers on this as everybody has their favorite.  The .40 S&W is favored by Law enforcement since it combines "stopping Power with less penetration, therefore minimalizing the chance of "collateral damage"; like the round going on through the perp & into an innocent bystander.  I don't know if that answered your question or not, but I don't see either of the four rounds listed as having any one being superior to the other in a true survival situation.  Any one, used properly, should get the job done. :Cool:

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## crashdive123

All listed would be welcome in a wilderness survival situation.  I own hand guns chambered in each of the calibers listed.  For hiking around here I stick with my everyday carry weapon (.40 S&W).  My EDC used to be chambered in 9mm.  My weapon of choice for hiking in other areas has been different depending on the area.  My .44 went with me often.  A .45 was the weapon used during my military time.  In the situation that you describe, I chose the .357.  However, when you describe a wilderness survival situation I've gotta think - how long is it gonna be?  A day, a week, a year?  If I'm humping around the ammunition for the weapon I have, I would be in the none of the above category.  While sometimes the discussions we have on the best or perfect what ever, are entertaining and sometimes informative, IMO, there is no "perfect" weapon, knife or ammunition for every situation.  That's why I prefer planning and options.

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## primeelite

I would have to go with the .40 S&W because I can get some stopping power and a few extra rounds. The recoil is very manageable as well but not sure how it would hold up against bears. I think .357 is also a nice round but having only a limited number of shots to hit your target may hurt you if its a life or death situation. I think there are a lot of rounds capable of doing the job it really depends on what you are comfortable with shooting because you may have a .357 but if you are not used to the recoil and can't hurt your target than you might as well be using a .22lr.

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## tsitenha

We are asked to choose a caliber that is listed, why these limits?
The answer is fairly simple: the one you are most accurate with and most likely to carry (if allowed), the one that will do the job in your situation.
Like some have already said bear spray/avoidance is more viable than a pistol rd, magnum or not it is still a pistol rd. Deter rather than confront. 
That is if bears are your primary concern, not meat gathering. 
2 legged kinds is of another matter
Again what you realistically practice with rather than what you wish you had, no one saved their lives by giving his target pneumonia from the air wash of a passing bullet.
Meat gathering, self loaders are great only if used in the proper context. A magazine is just that, a well to hold extra rds, not an excuse for having missed the first and second and third. times. No Zombie wars here, game will not just sit there waiting for the next shot; usually it will move on at odd angles and accelerating speed. Become the better shot, hunter that you need to be just as fire making, shelter building,..is important so is firearm competency
Like any thing else not smoke and mirrors but will stand the test of time.
This post could go one ad infinitum; parameters and ability are not defined properly.

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## primeelite

I guess it does come down to "not the size but how you use it"

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## Gray Wolf

Only because your list is limited, I go with the dual use 357/38.

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## klkak

Ok, I'll get with the program and choose one.........thinking.......hmmm........ok got it.

I'll choose the .357/.38 in a Marlin model 94 trapper carbine. :Big Grin:

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## Ole WV Coot

I already picked my 45, but with all the mentioning of the 44 mag I gotta say the one I have is a SS Ruger Redhawk with a barrel about as long as my leg. If you are gonna carry something that heavy in a shoulder or chest rig better get in shape. Too much weight all around. Might as well carry a long gun, and forget a belt holster unless you want to tilt to the carry side. I do agree that a 357 is good for mixing ammo as with my Ruger Blackhawk, but can't justify the weight if I carry.

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## chiangmaimav

I used to own a ruger .44 magnum rifle which was great but I don't think they make them anymore.

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## crashdive123

Don't know if it's the one you owned, but Ruger makes the 96/44M.  http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAFami...tion&famlst=37

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## A190

Give me a 158 grain jacketed hollow point in silvertip.         I will be happy.

you failed to mention the .38 super.............also excellent round and great man stopping power,,,,,,,,,,,,carried that one for years.

But that wasn't the question.  The  revolver is a  very forgiving weapon and will  hit with  good accuracy with any round you throw out of it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I just really like the silvertip, and after that the black talon................and after that all the rest.......

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## chiangmaimav

Yes it was a ruger 96/44m. Also owned a Ruger .22 and SP-101, all excellent guns.

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## FredKenpo

Well, this discussion put my mind at ease.  I have a .50, a .44 magnum, a .45 (which tends to be my carry gun), but just bought a S&W 340 .357 magnum because it fits in my pocket.  Wondered though how the bear that lumbers through where I live in summer might react to it.  Sounds like .45 vs. .357 is almost six of one, half a dozen of the other.  I do favor big bullets, as you might have guessed.

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## crashdive123

Hey FredKenpo - how about shooting on over to the Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself.  Thanks.

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## REAPER

if you have the right handgun..you wont have a false sense of security. The S & W 500 mag will drop any living thing on this planet and prob a few others. It can be used in many situations due to the differant loads. 275 gn up to the big T REX Thumper , 700gn
and let me tell ya, that T REX thumper is properly named, its more powerful than most rifels, this round has 3660 ft/lbs muzzel energy, 72lbs recoil, 1350 fps,hard cast lead and shoots like butter through 1/4 in metal plate frm 50 yrds

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## SARKY

I prefer the .460 S&W to the .500. shoots flatter so I can reach out and touch something.

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## Rick

I dunno. Where I live the only thing big and bad you have to worry about is standing in the mirror. No bears, no moose. Just wabbits and squirrels. I guess if you limit me to those calibers then I have to go with the .357 for all the reasons the pastor mentioned. I like my .45 and I like my 9mm but it's just really hard to cook up a squirrel that's been hit with a .45. I've learned to just shoot near them and let the sonic boom get 'em. :Big Grin:

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## Fletcher

357/38 hands down  because you will have two choice's or chances
to replenish ammo. Plus a revolver is more reliable.

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## sobeit

For the woods a 357/38 would be the better. If I went with the 45 I would go with a Ruger in 45 Long Colt

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## Tactical Tom

It wasn't on the list but .22LR is my favorite just because with proper shot placement you could take down game up to deer size * ONLY IF IT WAS LIFE OR DEATH *  & you can pack alot of ammo & ammo is cheap! But I also like a 9mm pretty much for the same reason.

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## wildography

I would prefer the .38/.357 for many of the reasons listed by others... but wanted to add my "two cents".

For a "short-term" survival situation, any of the listed choices would work well.  However, for SHTF and TEOTWAWKI survival situations... reliability and functionality are paramount.  There are "wheel-guns" from the 1800s that still perform well.

Ideally, I would prefer to have a .38/.357 revolver (with a variety of different loads - most of which have been listed) and a .22 revolver (with at least 500 rounds - or, if weight/storage/etc is not an issue... as much as I can get).

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## sgtdraino

Bump!

I really wish now that I had included .44 Magnum in this poll. Maybe next time!  :Big Grin:

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## lucznik

I'll throw in my vote for the .357/.38 as best both from the list as well as the best centerfire handgun choice overall because:
There's *nothing* in North America that can't be stopped by the .357It's a lot easier to shoot than any caliber starting with a 4 (or larger)It has versatility written all over it - you can load it with all kinds of different styles, weights, etc. ammo - *all at the same time*.It reliably shoots ANY .38 Spcl or .357 Mag ammo, regardless of power level (which can be a problem with automatics)Ammo is easy and (relatively) cheap to acquireGenerally speaking, high quality, *stock* revolvers will out shoot similarly high quality, *stock* pistols.


I *would* choose to supplement it with a .22LR - also a revolver.

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## Ken

> There's *nothing* in North America that can't be stopped by the .357


You think so, huh? :Whistling:  :Lol:  :Lol:  :Lol:  :Lol:

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## SARKY

Even with buffalo bore solids, I wouldn't want to stake my life on stopping a griz or polar bear. Even something like a bison might be a bit much for the .357

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## lucznik

> You think so, huh?


  Yes, I do.  I've killed many an animal with the .357.  I know others who have done the same.   Other calibers (44 Mag, 454 Casull, 460 S&W, 500 S&W) may be technically (and debatably) more efficient at the killing, but they do so at the expense of much greater recoil which inhibits good shooting.  The fact that they are "better" in respect to power also does not diminish any other caliber's ability to accomplish the same task.  

It's like saying a .300 Magnum is "better" than a 7-08 Rem as a moose/bear/elk dispatcher.  With correct shot placement the .300 *might* put the animal down more quickly, but that doesn't alter the fact that many a moose/bear/elk  have been quickly and humanely taken with the 7mm. (I've personally killed three elk in the last two years with the 7-08.) And the 7mm is easier to shoot accurately because it doesn't inflict nearly the same flinch-inducing recoil as the .300.

If you can't kill it with a .357, then you simply aren't a very good marksman.

----------


## lucznik

> Even with buffalo bore solids, I wouldn't want to stake my life on stopping a griz or polar bear. Even something like a bison might be a bit much for the .357


If you are staking your life on stopping a griz or a polar bear with ANY handgun (or for that matter with something like archery equipment), you are taking a big risk.  That doesn't mean it can't be done. 

Bison, BTW, really aren't particularly tough to kill.  Three of my friends have drawn for them in Wyoming the last few years and none of them have required much to put them down.  They are big, no doubt. (My friend who shot one two years ago hired a company to come in and help him get the animal field dressed and lifted into his truck. The weight of the animal after field dressing *broke* the crane that was being used to lift it into his pickup truck.)  Even being big though, they do tend to succumb (to accurate shot placement) pretty quickly.

----------


## endurance

I used to hand load 650 fps 148gr. full wadcutters in .38 for small game and then used full power .357 loads for big game/self-defense.  Three chambers of each with brass cartridges for the .38 and chrome cartridges for .357 so I could turn the chamber to the appropriate round and I was set.  Unfortunately I sold my GP-100 in an act of foolishiness about 10-15 years ago, but I'm hoping to pick another one up or something similar.

Also, I don't live in grizzly/bison country.  While there's the odd chance of a black bear encounter, after 30+ years in the Colorado back country I have yet to have a problem with them.  .357 seems adequate around here, but obviously there's parts of the country that have significantly different threats.

----------


## SARKY

Endurance, before you jump on another GP-100 check out the Taurus Trackers, pretty much the same size and gives you one more round in the .38/.357. I have no problem with the .357 and black bear.

----------


## Sourdough

> Endurance, before you jump on another GP-100 check out the Taurus Trackers, pretty much the same size and gives you one more round in the .38/.357. I have no problem with the .357 and black bear.



Ditto....I carry a Model 60 3" 95% of the time for farm work, to fetching water, and have regular Bear encounters in the yard. I use tha Cor-Bon 200 Gr. hardcast "MogenGator's".

----------


## endurance

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm open to all sorts of options, looking toward 6", as I already have a snubnose .38 S&W and a H&K 9mm.  If I'm carrying concealed it's going to be one of those two, but if I'm heading into the woods I'd like something more durable with a longer barrel for longer range shots and more versatility.  My GP was amazingly accurate for a 4" barrel, but I'd like to have something I could use out to 50 yards if I had to.

----------


## loki

I think this question is really dependant upon the platform chosen, compact, full size, carbine all have their benefits as well as drawbacks. I have a .357 snub and a compact .45acp of which I normally carry the 45 not because I believe it is a better round or anything it was just my first pistol and the one that I shot the most and I am just comfortable with it. I feel that when I point my weapon I can hit what I am aiming at with it. I have not had this practice with my .357. I actually bought it for a nightstand gun for my wife when I have to work the night shift. Now the thing that I do like about my .357 is that I can load it with snake shot and easily kill snakes if need be and not worry about it not cycling the slide and having feeding problems. So I say carry whatever makes you comfortable. There is no magic round or gun the utility of a firearm comes in conjunction with the comfort level and skill of the user.

----------


## Badawg

When I carry, it's a Colt Officer's Lightweight in .45ACP. It's my favorite evener 8)... That being said, I don't think it would be particularly useful in the woods(I live in a desert). That's why I voted for the .357/.38. In either case, if I shot a jackrabbit, there wouldn't be much left to eat... so as far as I am concerned neither would be my choice carry pistol for survival in the boonies. For that I have a Colt Woodsman in .22 LR. It's getting old now though. 

For my next trick I am buying an NAA Mini Master(long barrel) Combo. I like the capability of both .22 LR and another cylinder loaded with .22Magnum. That gives me 10 rounds pretty quick and the magnum is a decent round. and Long rifle is just great... Best part? It's not a hard gun to hide from wandering eyes when carrying, is very light, and is made in the US.

----------


## John Guano

I am partial to the S&W Sigma .40 cal myself. I also have the versatility of a Colt 1911 .45 with a Ciener .22 conversion kit. Talk about optioned survival!

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## kx250kev

> I've actually had better luck killing bear with a 9MM than the .45 ACP.


In my own penetration tests involving winchester white box FMJ ammo, the 9mm out penetrated .38, .40 and .45 easily punching through three 2x8 boards. :Smash: 
Personally, I think the 9mm is an amazing and underrated round.

----------


## kx250kev

> I prefer the .460 S&W to the .500. shoots flatter so I can reach out and touch something.


I preferred the .454 Casull, until I shot it once without hearing protection (deer hunting).  Yes it is a kill anything round, that could penetrate a massive stump, but after I experienced significant hearing loss in my left ear, and have nonstop ringing, I decided that a large caliber handgun is a bad idea.  I also couldn't group 5 quick shots to a paper plate at due to the massive recoil.  That wouldn't help if a bear was attacking.  I'll stick to my .40 with 17rd mags.  :Gun Bandana:

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## kx250kev

> Yes, I do.  I've killed many an animal with the .357.  I know others who have done the same.   Other calibers (44 Mag, 454 Casull, 460 S&W, 500 S&W) may be technically (and debatably) more efficient at the killing, but they do so at the expense of much greater recoil which inhibits good shooting.  The fact that they are "better" in respect to power also does not diminish any other caliber's ability to accomplish the same task.  
> 
> It's like saying a .300 Magnum is "better" than a 7-08 Rem as a moose/bear/elk dispatcher.  With correct shot placement the .300 *might* put the animal down more quickly, but that doesn't alter the fact that many a moose/bear/elk  have been quickly and humanely taken with the 7mm. (I've personally killed three elk in the last two years with the 7-08.) And the 7mm is easier to shoot accurately because it doesn't inflict nearly the same flinch-inducing recoil as the .300.
> 
> If you can't kill it with a .357, then you simply aren't a very good marksman.


I agree, the .357 is a great round and gun. :Smile:

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## Alpine_Sapper

> For my next trick I am buying an NAA Mini Master(long barrel) Combo. I like the capability of both .22 LR and another cylinder loaded with .22Magnum. That gives me 10 rounds pretty quick and the magnum is a decent round. and Long rifle is just great... Best part? It's not a hard gun to hide from wandering eyes when carrying, is very light, and is made in the US.


Why you gotta do this to me man? Like I don't have ENOUGH stuff to spend money on already...

http://www.randywakeman.com/naa22miniMaster.htm

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## SARKY

> In my own penetration tests involving winchester white box FMJ ammo, the 9mm out penetrated .38, .40 and .45 easily punching through three 2x8 boards.
> Personally, I think the 9mm is an amazing and underrated round.


Sorry, but tiny hole in .....tiny hole out. No expansion, no disruption of organs etc. if you are going to kill the animal and not just wond it use anything other than a fmj. especially in a bullet diameter of .35 cal or smaller. With some type of HP bullet the 9 is a good round, again not what i would use for hunting, or a bear stopper.

----------


## kx250kev

> Sorry, but tiny hole in .....tiny hole out. No expansion, no disruption of organs etc. if you are going to kill the animal and not just wond it use anything other than a fmj. especially in a bullet diameter of .35 cal or smaller. With some type of HP bullet the 9 is a good round, again not what i would use for hunting, or a bear stopper.


Sarky, I won't get in a debate over the 9mm round, but I just believe it is underrated.  In my personal penetration tests I sufficiently answered my own questions regarding the power of this round.  While I wouldn't recommend the 9mm for hunting, I do believe it could easily penetrate a bears skull, or it's heart.  For self defense, I do not feel under gunned with the 9.  IMHO, shot placement is key.

----------


## Beo

All I can say is .45 because shooting something twice is just stupid... lol... I love the .45 and have a Glock 36 in .45 the Slimline and it holds 6 in the mag and in the chamber for seven shots right off, I'm only gonna need 2 for my double tap so the other five are for the bad guys friends if they get a case stupid. But hey that's just me.
Fact is most gun fights happen within 10 to 7 feet so I think I'm gonna blast the crap outta Johnny Bad Guy, and training proves that a 100% shooter becomes a 60 to 50% shooter when the chips are down, I'm not really sure about that but I put it out there because I have been told that in training, but it hasn't been my experience yet.
Remember, slow is smooth, smooth is fast and fast is deadly.
Beo,

----------


## Beo

Oh the round I carry is the Winchester+p or 230 gr Federal Hydra-Shok so I can take out an enemy or put an animal down easily, humanly, and quickly.

----------


## RReevestmmk

Gotta say I likee the 6" .357 Rossi I carry... 4 full-power .357 rounds, last 2 in the wheel are Shotshell for aggravations.  My stompin ground holds Black Bear, but I agree with others posting, you don't need a gun if you know how to deal with Bear, never had a issue.  Now wild pig, however, are a different story altogether.  Never had an issue personally, but I knew a guy who had a friend whose brother..... pigs is just mean.

----------


## hunter63

As this poll is 3 years old.....Don't remember if I voted or not....So I gonna just say, .357 and all .38 loads that fit.
Reason, I have a few, don't really like auto loaders, and .357 can be had in rifle or pistol versions, the old one cartridge for both.

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## glockcop

Sgtdraino, I agree with you hierarchy and reasons for them in your initial post. I too would recommend the .357/.38 as a top choice for it's versatility. The 9mm +p+ can generate some pretty high energy levels actually approaching the .357 but not quite getting there. The .40 has very respectable power in it's standard pressure rounds but it's starts out at a level of pressure as high as 9mm and 45 acp ''+P'' levels. Look at the ''handle'' at the bottom of my post for my reasons for placing the .45ACP LAST. The .45 is a ''good'' round. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not the end all do all. Now the .357 magnum is a "GREAT" round. Ballistically the .357 does everything the others do and it does it better. Recoil and capacity is a different matter of course. Yes, the .357 recoils a little bit more but it's still very doable. It's the same reason a dragster goes faster than your Fiat. It's called "performance". Here is were I get in trouble. Are you ready? Here goes......I am not picking on anyone here but as far as I'm concerned, If a person can't handle the recoil of a 158 grain .357 in a 4" revolver weighing 40 oz, maybe they should pick a different hobby, like needle point or oragami. Of course there could be some medical condition for their lack of ability. That's what they make Viagra for  :Smile: . But hey, everybody has their opinions. Calm down ya'll, it's all in fun  :Smile: .

----------


## glockcop

> In my own penetration tests involving winchester white box FMJ ammo, the 9mm out penetrated .38, .40 and .45 easily punching through three 2x8 boards.
> Personally, I think the 9mm is an amazing and underrated round.


All I can say is "YEP, what he said".

----------


## glockcop

> Sarky, I won't get in a debate over the 9mm round, but I just believe it is underrated.  In my personal penetration tests I sufficiently answered my own questions regarding the power of this round.  While I wouldn't recommend the 9mm for hunting, I do believe it could easily penetrate a bears skull, or it's heart.  For self defense, I do not feel under gunned with the 9.  IMHO, shot placement is key.


AGAIN: "Yep, What he said". I've done a bit of testing myself and FMJ aside, the 9mm (124 and 147 gr) in hollow points CONSISTANTLY outpenetrates .38, .40 S&W, and .45 acp in any weight all day every day with power that for the most part matches or exceeds them. The .40 in 180 gr comes the closest but still gets outpaced by the 9mm. To get back on track, the .357 is the nondesputed "CROWNED KING" of self defense rounds and would be the best of the choices listed for a survival situation IMO. This goes for any firearm: Stress and the threat of being eaten alive by a bear can seriously undue any shot placement skills acquired on the range  :Smile: . There is a difference between ''Bear Hunting'' and "Survival" guns.

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## kyratshooter

And just how much penetration does one need? Do we have rabbits and quail hiding behind sandbags now?  Are we going into tatical mode and punching through cinder blocks to hit the spike deer at the water hole? 

All of the vital organs in most creatures are within 8 inches of the skin.  All of the listed choices give you at least that much penetration and are long proven wilderness guns. 

I have no griz or polar bears in my area, no elephants to finish off either.  With a lack of dangerous game to deal with nothing can compete with the versitility and reliability of a .357 wheelgun.

I think I will stick with the versititly of being able to shoot anything from mice with shot loads, to moose with 200 gn cast lead, the reliability and lack of need for magazines of my .357.

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## glockcop

> And just how much penetration does one need? Do we have rabbits and quail hiding behind sandbags now?  Are we going into tatical mode and punching through cinder blocks to hit the spike deer at the water hole? 
> 
> All of the vital organs in most creatures are within 8 inches of the skin.  All of the listed choices give you at least that much penetration and are long proven wilderness guns. 
> 
> I have no griz or polar bears in my area, no elephants to finish off either.  With a lack of dangerous game to deal with nothing can compete with the versitility and reliability of a .357 wheelgun.
> 
> I think I will stick with the versititly of being able to shoot anything from mice with shot loads, to moose with 200 gn cast lead, the reliability and lack of need for magazines of my .357.


I agree that the .357 is the top choice for a "survival" firearm....whatever that is. The .357 covers such a broad range of uses that it makes it a no brainer for the countless unpredictable scenarios one may find themselves in. I do think you may have misunderstood my defense of the 9mm and it's penetration ability. It is NOT as versitile as the .357 but we got off topic for a few posts and I was giving my take on common auto pistol rounds and their performance from my experience using them. No, there are not ''rabbits behind sand bags'' or deer hiding behind cinder blocks but there are situations where "penetration" is what is needed to save your bacon. I'd rather have a little too much than too little penetration any day. Your pistol may have to protect you from a large variety of threats, two legged and four legged. You may be in a life or death situation in the city streets or just as easily in the outback. Bad guys do not stand in the street and waite to be shot. They hide behind car doors and mail boxes. Either the city or the wilderness can be considered a ''survival situation'' or a ''bug out'' scenario. But lets get back to the wilderness setting. If you have only one shot that may be partially blocked by greenery or debris and you have to take that spike buck or starve, what are you gonna do? Pass the shot? Not a chance. No, not an ethical shot but hey, we are about to ''starve'' in this example. Or maybe we could replace that "spike buck" with a large mule deer partially behind a cacti. Maybe it's an old gator laying on the bank and it's your last chance to get a meal. Without surgical shot placement in the brain, "penetration'' is what you need to take a gator. Most folks are not proficient enough for surgical shot placement with a pistol so penetration wins the card game. What about a cougar that has stalked you for a few hundred yards and is waiting to pounce on you while hiding in the thick nearby brush. Maybe you are about to have a run in with a couple of feral pits or rotties way back in the middle of nowhere. Most people would agree that these guys are thick with heavy dense muscle. What about the hungry black bear that has YOU on his menue. The range of the black bear is spreading every day. It can and does happen. Maybe not very often but none the less, it happens. I think penetration would be HIGH on my priority list in ANY of the previous examples. These are situations where people could reasonably find themselves in. The moral of the story: ''PENETRATION IS A GOOD THING''. In an auto, a 9mm can be counted on to give superior penetration to the other auto cartriages mentioned but the .357 is the king of the roost in a more broad variety of situations.

----------


## Batch

With all this talk of bigger caliber and more penetration. I think we should just go around the various forums and threads like this and rate the threads on a certain scale. Kinda like Boone and Crockett or Pope and Young. 

What to y'all think of Freud and Jung?  :Innocent:

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## xj2000

This is virtually an endless argument.  Don't let anyone tell you what the best survival round is.  You must decide for yourself.  A better question would be: "what rounds do you use and why?"

Thought: Does the guy who started this thread 3 years ago even look at it anymore?

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## EdD270

My first choice is a .357 mag 3" stainless revolver. I love the cartridge/gun combo's versatility for a woods gun. Heavy .357 mag loads for large animals, lighter bullets, light .38 Spl loads for small animals and target shooting. Someone commented they prefer the .44 mag because they have a rifle that shoots them, too. Marlin makes a wonderful lever action rifle in .357 mag. 
The .40S&W would be my choice in a semi-auto. I know the 10mm is a stronger load, but ammo is hard to find and of limited variety. The 10mm full strength load is about equivalent to a .41 mag., another great cartridge, but hard to find and limited variety. Oh, yeah, neither were on the list. 
I've killed deer and elk with the .357, and know people who've taken some good sized black bears with it, and read accounts in the hunting mags of people taking griz with it. I would not feel undergunned with a .357 for anything on NA continent, especially in sub-arctic areas. My uncle once killed a black bear with a .22 rimfire pistol, not because he wanted to, but because he had to. That don't mean the .22 is the ideal bear gun, though. For survival purposes in the wilderness, the .22 is hard to beat, but the .357 is the most versatile all-around, do everything gun you can find. A 3" barrel will do anything you need done out to 50 or 100 yards on deer-size game or smaller, and is convenient to carry and deploy.

----------


## Dropy

i like the .357 for most applications.

----------


## kyratshooter

> Bump!
> 
> I really wish now that I had included .44 Magnum in this poll. Maybe next time!


I am glad you didn't.

If you had listed the 44mag this would have changed to a fantacy football equivelent.  Everyone that never got hit with one from either end would want one but not really HAVE one.   .44 mag is one of those guns I have owned several of in the past, do not own now and do not miss having.

As it is a lot of the replies are "I would pick" or "I would get" or "I have only shot two magazines from it but..." rather than "My old M19 will do the job."

What is the best survival caliber?  

The one that fits the gun you have on your belt when you need it!

----------


## wholsomback

Well  for what it is worth I cherish my .44 but love my .357/.38 and have killed many big game animals with both.I would rank the .357/.38 better than the 9mm because I have seen a many a hog soak up alot of rounds from a 9mm whilst the .357/.38 dispatches a charging hog better and with less rounds fired
for the kill,the .44 is far better but when most women or recoil sensitive people are involved a 110 grain hollowpoint+P .38 is very manageable even for my wife and 13 year old girl.I know alot of people love there 9mm but I used one in the Marine Corps and turned to the .45 after my first firefight,more bullets does not always mean better.The bullets for the .44 are everywhere and are not that expensive when you count the fact that when you need to stop something it does not fail.35 dollars for 50 is not to steep a price to pay when you or your family are at risk or you need that big game animal down quick,and I mean big,with the right bullets and a little practice the .44/.44 special rounds will take any animal in North America to the dirt with one shot.while I would not try a grizzly or a moose or elk with a 9mm but would with the proper .357/.38 but my heart is on my .44 as is my life.I can handle and control a big gun and thats what it's all about shoot the most powerful gun you are comfortable with and you will do fine,I can put 6 rounds from my .44 in a pie plate at 30 meters as fast as I can pull the trigger so I don't worry with smaller weapons but have others for my wife and kids.Each to his own the debate will never end.....

----------


## hunter63

So..... has any one changed their mind since 2008?

----------


## Rick

Welcome home, Wholsomback, and thanks for your service. 

Hunter, I've changed my mind several times since then but at my age I can't remember why and what it was about.

----------


## hunter63

Huh? What were we talking about..........?

----------


## wholsomback

Remember what the old gunfighters used to say about a real gunfight."the man who wins is a man with enough nerve to stand and aim"(Wyatt Earp) sometimes you get lucky with all those bullets goin downrange but one well placed shot out preforms all that wasted ammo and noise.I guess that's why alot of Texas Rangers are going back to .45/1911 and there old .44 wheel guns,reliability and real stopping power.

And thankyou Rick it is much appreciated.

----------


## Winter

I carry a .357/.38 wheelgun in the woods.

I agree the .44 is a better stopper, but, I have a better chance of a second or followup shot with the .357 if a bear is charging. For bear, I go with the idea that the more lead you put in the bear in the shortest amount of time equals victory IF you have enough penetration.

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## Rick

I have no idea how you guys hang on to a .44. My .357 is more than I want to shoot. The old wrist can't take too much of that kind of recoil. Cudos to you in spades if you can do it. 

"But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow my hand clean off from the recoil...."

----------


## wholsomback

They are the .44 I mean not that hard to handle with practice because recoil as all of you who shoot magnum deer cartriges in the deer woods know you don't notice it when there's a 10 point in front of you as the differance in a paper target.Get some practice and learn how to manage the recoil and you will not even notice the recoil when I.E. the bear hog or other animals are charging.I had a 300 pound hog charge last year at night at about 10 feet and wouldn't you know it 5 shots all hit and didn't even realize I had shot that many times niether did the hog.

----------


## kyratshooter

> I have no idea how you guys hang on to a .44. My .357 is more than I want to shoot. The old wrist can't take too much of that kind of recoil. Cudos to you in spades if you can do it. 
> 
> "But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow my hand clean off from the recoil...."


You just have to ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?"

Recoil from the .44mag has never been a problem for me, but it is for many people.  I have always thought the ruger blackhawk had a pleasant push with factory .44.  I had one old Cimmeron SA .44mag that was downright pleasant to shoot.  I simply do not need if for anything that roams around in my area.

Still I would even choose the .357 for a long term urban survival gun due to being able to salvage almost any .38/9mm cartridge to use in it.

The .357 will chamber 38spl/.38super/357 as is of course, but one can also salvage primers, powder and slugs from 9mm/380 or any of the other .38 calibers and recycle them into the empties that you always save with the wheelgun rather than watch them sail through the weeds from an autoloader.  Since the cases came out of your gun you will normally not need to resize them and you can rebuild them without a reloading press.

----------


## hunter63

> You just have to ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?"
> 
> Recoil from the .44mag has never been a problem for me, but it is for many people.  I have always thought the ruger blackhawk had a pleasant push with factory .44.  I had one old Cimmeron SA .44mag that was downright pleasant to shoot.  I simply do not need if for anything that roams around in my area.
> 
> Still I would even choose the .357 for a long term urban survival gun due to being able to salvage almost any .38/9mm cartridge to use in it.
> 
> The .357 will chamber 38spl/.38super/357 as is of course, but one can also salvage primers, powder and slugs from 9mm/380 or any of the other .38 calibers and recycle them into the empties that you always save with the wheelgun rather than watch them sail through the weeds from an autoloader.  Since the cases came out of your gun you will normally not need to resize them and you can rebuild them without a reloading press.


All the above reasons are why I like and shoot my .357 more than any other, except maybe the .22's.

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## Rick

Sooo. You just place the new primer on the case and tap them in?

----------


## hunter63

> Sooo. You just place the new primer on the case and tap them in?


Yes, It's getting an unfired primer, out of a unfired case that's kind tough........
Lee Loader or at least the principle of one.
randyt had posted a home made version a while back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

----------


## Rick

Holy crap! I'd never seen that. Randy that is slicker than drop seat underwear. Really cool! (yes, you can surmise at this point that I do not reload).

----------


## SARKY

Of the rounds listed as a choice (handgun), i'll still pick the .357. But given a full choice of rounds, I would pick either the .44 special/magnum or the .41 Magnum and my favorite wildcat the .41 special.

----------


## hunter63

> Holy crap! I'd never seen that. Randy that is slicker than drop seat underwear. Really cool! (yes, you can surmise at this point that I do not reload).


Rick, That's not randy in the vid,..... that was just to show how a Lee loader works.....But randy did have a post on a homemade version that I can't find.
Was cool in the respect that you can "make" the compontants rather than "Buy" them,......But the principle is still the same and works as well......Kinda of a DIY ammo factory, should the need arise.

I started re-loading with a Lee Loader...and have gotten carried away....but still works just fine.

----------


## kyratshooter

You can use a tube cutter to open the salvage case.  Peel the case neck off the slug.

You can pop the primers out with hydrolic preasure.  Fill them with water and use a tight fitting dowel to clear the primer,  then let them dry and reload them.

Same powder, same primer, same slug just use the .357 case you saved.

Nice thing about the .357 is you do not have to worry about overload if you are breaking down 9mm/.380/38 S&W.

----------


## Rick

Looks like the Lee Loaders are pretty inexpensive, too.

----------


## hunter63

Also small and portable, Altoids can size.
Shot gun sets a little bigger.

----------


## Russd

Of the choices I would prefer the .357/.38 special. I like the idea that I can have both rifle and pistol in the same caliber, that being said I prefer the .44 mag, having used one since the 1960's. I have loaded many rounds with a Lee loader, and never a problem with the rounds.

----------


## Phaedrus

Of the guns listed all their virtues.  But although it's a fine round, the .40 is the first one I'd dump.  It's not enough stouter than the 9mm IMO especially vs the ubiquity of 9mm ammo.  If I lived in country that had dangerous 4 legged critters I'd be inclined to rank the .357 Mag higher, but the only dangerous critters near me are the 2 legged kind.  And if I was worried about bears and such I'd consider the .357 a bit on the skimpy side.  Ultimately that leaves me with the 9mm & .45 ACP.  I would carry either since I have both, a Kimber .45 and a Browning HP in 9mm.  Overall I prefer the design of the Browning but the extra punch of the .45 ACP cartridge is good to have.  I feel both will get the job done.

----------


## kyratshooter

I am always very thankful for that river between me and the grizzly population!  There is also a river between me and the Cincinnati Zoo so when the nutjobs release all the lions, tigers and bears over there they will feed on the getto fodder before the swim the river.  Possibly not waiting the mandatory 1/2 hour before taking the swim, they will develop stomach cramps and sink.

I wonder if a .357 will take out the radiation mutated huge ants and crickets like they used to have on the science fiction movies in the '50s.   :Nuke:

----------


## Rick

Since both have exoskeletons you've probably have to move up the 4 gauge as your EDC. On the plus side you'd have a lot of fun trying to knock down the kangaroos. On the down side it would take forever for the giant tortoises to get in range.

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## SARKY

Aim for the eyes!

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## kyratshooter

Some of them insects have 8-10 eyes!

Oh Lord I am going to need a high capacity mag!  

Anyone have one of them fancy new 8shot .357 mags I hear they are making now?

Then again, perhaps the high capacity 9mm might make an excellent bug gun.

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## Rick

KY, I think you need to get a Saiga shotgun with two 10 rounds magazines and a skate board. If the first mag doesn't stop them then hop on the skate board, point the shotgun backwards and start pulling the trigger. You'll be like a rocket sled on rails. 

Yeah, I'm kind of an idea man. I leave the details to others to work out. It's hard enough just coming up with outstanding ideas like this one.

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## kyratshooter

I don't need a Saiga Rick, I'm old school!

I have a double barrel 12 that will get me rolling good with a singe field load and send me supersonic if I use high brass in the second barrel.

Anyone have a helmet and some knee pads?

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## Batch

OK, for Browning designs. Wouldn't you want a 1911 or HP in DA/SA or DAO instead of SAO?

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## Beans

IMO a 45 ACP belongs in a 1911 and everything else belongs in a Glock!

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