# Survival > Survival Kits & Survival Products >  skills to match your trauma kit

## hayshaker

i'll first start off with a saying some of you here are familar with.
DO NO HARM,. i have a rather exstensive aid bag and a few small ones.
thing is i have nothing in them i don't know how to use.
so there's nothing fancy in there so to speak.

i think when someone want's to buid thier first trauma bag,
it should be a build as you learn thing.
for instance if you don't know how to treat a sucking chest wound
do you really need a halo chest seal?
there are tons of stuff you can get online,but don't really need
unless you know how to to use them. i think many here would agree.

i've seen some pretty fancy trauma blo out kits for sale.
my self i've built my own to match my skill sets.
i'm self trained not a EMT or doctor.

i can do minor surgical prosidures ie' suturing
deep wound care ,boo boos and stop bleeding.and use a npr
so that's pretty much it.
so ho how do your skills match up to your kit?

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## hunter63

I have to agree...If you don't know how to use it....not much point in carrying it around.
Truck is a different story.

My kits are all very basic Boo Boo leak stoppable.......but heavy on  meds.
'Aspirin/ ibuprofen,  imodium, benadryl, cough drops, antiseptic, iodine and salves.

Bandages, 4"x 4" pads, tape, gauze, bandana.....some sutures....but I don't sew up any one, nor have tampax for bullet holes .
I have yet to see a sucking chest wound........so if what I do carry won't stop the leakage.......direct pressure is going have to do.

Many carry a very complete field FAK including surgical stuff.......I don't as I do not have the skills to use it.

When we took a first aid course for work, all supervisor were required to take....I asked the company nurse, ..retired navy  for the short version...
If you can see it, put a bandaid on it.....if you can't, give them a aspirin........And don't bleed on my floor.

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## kyratshooter

First, there is a clear difference between first aid and practicing medicine.  You had best know where that line resides and stay inside it.

Once you cross that threshold you have passed from the protection of the "Good Samaritan" clause and entered practicing medicine without a license/malpractice area.

Minor surgery and suturing wounds in the field pretty much crosses that line.  The guys at the ER are going to speak to the EMT people and then the police, after they have to undo what was done in the field.  Those guys want bleeding controlled, treatment for shock, and broken bones immobilized and not much else.

That is one of the first things that is emphasized in any basic first aid class taught by any certifying agency. 

I had combat trauma training, like thousands of others, which goes a bit farther than treating minor cuts and scrapes.  I have friends that did "procedures" in the field during combat that would get them jailed if they did the same today on U.S. soil.  My wife had to go through several years training after she left the Army medical corps in order to do the exact same job in a civilian hospital that she had done as a battalion aid station medic.

I also have many friends that work in the medical field, nurses, nurse practitioners, MD types.  We camp together and they usually bring half a truck load of med supplies.  Oddly, just about every outing we have to use something from the kits on someone.  The procedure is always the same,  Cover the wound, stop the bleeding, stabilize a fracture if needed, get the guy to the ER for proper treatment. 

Sometimes we are hours away from a hospital.  The procedure is still the same.  They do not cut tissue, clean the wound past removing obvious debris, or sew up anything!  

For that reason I keep a kit in my vehicle with many things I am not trained to use and would not attempt to use during an emergency.  I do not even know the proper names for some of that gear, they tossed it to me and told me to put it in my kit, so I did.  The stuff is there in case we meet an accident victim on the highway while I am with one of those people.

As for myself, I will insure an open airway, stop the bleeding, cover the wound, immobilize any fractures, and wait for the guys with the flashing lights and sirens to arrive, or if appropriate, get the injured party to the hospital, even if that takes all day.

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## madmax

Well I guess that leaves me with what I usually carry.  Gauze and duct tape.

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## kyratshooter

> Well I guess that leaves me with what I usually carry.  Gauze and duct tape.


Max, I once saw a sucking chest wound treated with the foil from a cigarette pack and duct tape.

I do not know if the guy lived but I did take note of the treatment option.

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## hayshaker

ciggertte foil hum, ai'nt exactly a asherman chest seal.
anyhow i forgot my medical disclamer, the other saying goes
no good deed goes unpunished, there ya go.

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## hunter63

Hummmm, lots of folks quit smoking.....???

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## Desert Rat!

+1 What kyrat said.

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## Phaedrus

I limit my FAK to just stuff I know how to use.  So the most advanced stuff I have is just things like TKs, Sam Splints, and various bandages and hemostatic agents.  No way I'm gonna play surgeon or try to suture anyone in the field.

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## hayshaker

as far as anything of a surgical nature 
it's really a post shtf kinda thing.
being laws as they are.
the medical establishment does'nt take kindly
to cutting them out of the game.

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## crashdive123

> as far as anything of a surgical nature 
> it's really a post shtf kinda thing.
> being laws as they are.
> the medical establishment does'nt take kindly
> to cutting them out of the game.


Just curious....  What post shtf kinda thing do you envision where you would need to perform surgery?

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## Rick

> the medical establishment does'nt take kindly to cutting them out of the game.




Medical establishment....cutting them out....I see what you did there.

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## hayshaker

if the hospitals were to close . and sorry if anyone took my post the wrong way.
i don't plan on sewing up so to speak any stranger under the current
state we live in.

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## crashdive123

Again, just curious - what scenario do you envision where the hospitals would be closed?

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

#3 son is a Firefighter/Paramedic.  I just take him.

Alan

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I suppose in a situation like Katrina, ... The hospitals were not closed but the ones that weren't inoperable were inaccessible.  In those situations you're just going to do the best you can, sucking chest wound or not... In those scenarios a whole bunch of folks are just SOL.

#1 son used to hog hunt, a lot, fanatically...  He had a stapler that he would patch up the dogs with when they got cut up.  One morning he came in with staples up his arm, and his aim hadn't been particularly good.  I made a very strong suggestion (demand) that he visit the Dr. immediately and certainly prior to his mother seeing it.  He did... I'm glad those days are gone.

Alan

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## hunter63

I quit carrying the snake bite kit.....

LeRoy got snake bit in the private parts.

So I got the kit out and called 911 on the cell phone.

They told me to take the blade in the kit, cut the bites open a bit...then suck out the poison...

I hung up........ LeRoy says...."What did the Doc say???"

He said to role you in your side,.... fold you up in a fetal position....cup one hand around your ear, the cup the other hand around the ear
Then say....."Doc says you gonna die"

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## kyratshooter

Leroy has been dying from that same snake bite since I was a kid Hunter!

The doctors around here will tell you real quick that the average first aid practitioner will do more harm trying to "treat" snakebite than if you just load the victim up and get them to the ER within half a day from being bitten.

We have one place her in KY down near the Red River Gorge, in Daniel Boone NF that has the highest density of Copperheads in the nation.  I have forgotten the exact numbers but it totals to several hundred per acre.  Hikers get nailed down there all the time.  I can not ever remember anyone dying.

More people in the U.S. die from infected hang nails than from snake bite.

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## madmax

Down here juvenile pygmy rattlers curl up to the size of a silver dollar.  They have no control over the amount of venom they inject (unlike the adults (who are pretty small themselves).  You get the full load first bite.

Look before you squat.

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## hunter63

> Leroy has been dying from that same snake bite since I was a kid Hunter!
> 
> The doctors around here will tell you real quick that the average first aid practitioner will do more harm trying to "treat" snakebite than if you just load the victim up and get them to the ER within half a day from being bitten.
> 
> We have one place her in KY down near the Red River Gorge, in Daniel Boone NF that has the highest density of Copperheads in the nation.  I have forgotten the exact numbers but it totals to several hundred per acre.  Hikers get nailed down there all the time.  I can not ever remember anyone dying.
> 
> More people in the U.S. die from infected hang nails than from snake bite.


LOL...Yeah I know...been waiting a long time to use that one....

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Snake bites here are not a small thing.  Copperheads are rare, cottonmouths are smallish and really don't like people and when I go to where they are (teal Season) they are usually pretty sluggish, and coral snakes have to have your help to bite you.  

But, rattlesnakes are another story.  I do NOT want a rattlesnake bite.  It may not kill you but you're going to feel like it and look like it.

Alan

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## randyt

I carry a roll of black electrical tape and a old T-shirt.

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## hunter63

> I carry a roll of black electrical tape and a old T-shirt.


Plumbers use shop rags and electricians tape.....Duck tape too sticky.

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## randyt

my t-shirts are rags lol

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## hunter63

Last company I worked for was a big company...we had shop rags....LOL

The mom and pop company used rags.....and you new knew what you were gonna get in a small bale....

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## Antonyraison

I dont carry too much mostly things for cuts and scrapes and other small booboos.
but do know 1st aid, but yeah its mostly just running around with plasters and pressure bandages..

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## Phaedrus

Having said that, I would like to get some good 1st aid/trauma training.

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## hunter63

Had to do that basic First aid from the Red Cross...as well as CPR training....re-cert every year as a supervisor in a factory.

We never go past basic ...stop bleeding,  immobilizing fractures,...rescue carries.

Unless you have further training....that about all most people are qualified for.......
And dial 911...
Back in the bush...do what you can,.... but gonna be tough sledding....The risk you take.

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## Antonyraison

> Had to do that basic First aid from the Red Cross...as well as CPR training....re-cert every year as a supervisor in a factory.
> 
> We never go past basic ...stop bleeding,  immobilizing fractures,...rescue carries.
> 
> Unless you have further training....that about all most people are qualified for.......
> And dial 911...
> Back in the bush...do what you can,.... but gonna be tough sledding....The risk you take.


Its the exact 1st aid training I have...
Basically we where told to 1st check if person is ok and conscious, then if they are basically ask them if its ok to try help them, and as soon as you begin to treat for anything you are required to call The Paramedics or whom ever (911,etc)
and well your duty is to try and do as much as you can and allowed to, if it is CPR, your duty is to try keep that going as long as you can or as long as better help arrives..
anyway there is a lot of law around it.. so be careful what you do, also I would never give people medications, I keep some for my personal use, but never to some one else.. can lead to big issues.

There is a line between, being a good samartian type 1st aid.. and some one that thinks they know what they doing and well do on site procedures past your basic first aid.
That is mostly well treating shock, checking airways, breathing, breaks and immobilization, stopping bleeding, cpr( also know how to administer an I.V)... So in my mind it is just basically trying to keep the person calm, and treat things you can see like bleeding and so forth.. till help actually arrives.... also imperative to keep an accurate event log of incident from the time you arrive, so that this information can be sent with the patient when paramedics come etc.. More or less time lines, what you did, what they took or ate and drank, injuries you found and treated and how etc.. etc..

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

> Had to do that basic First aid from the Red Cross...as well as CPR training....re-cert every year as a supervisor in a factory.
> 
> We never go past basic ...stop bleeding,  immobilizing fractures,...rescue carries.
> 
> Unless you have further training....that about all most people are qualified for.......
> And dial 911...
> Back in the bush...do what you can,.... but gonna be tough sledding....The risk you take.


In school, administrators, coaches and bus drivers were required to take first aid, CPR, and AED use.  When I was there we had two AEDs on campus. My understanding is that now they have more.  The training was a one day thing and it seemed that the CPR procedure changed every year.  I never had to use first aid in any of those three positions I held in public school, and I am extremely glad of that.  We had athletic trainers (adults on staff as such) that took care of most of the injuries that occurred at school.  Once in a while there was something the school nurse could handle.

Alan

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## hunter63

> Its the exact 1st aid training I have...
> Basically we where told to 1st check if person is ok and conscious, then if they are basically ask them if its ok to try help them, and as soon as you begin to treat for anything you are required to call The Paramedics or whom ever (911,etc)
> and well your duty is to try and do as much as you can and allowed to, if it is CPR, your duty is to try keep that going as long as you can or as long as better help arrives..
> anyway there is a lot of law around it.. so be careful what you do, also I would never give people medications, I keep some for my personal use, but never to some one else.. can lead to big issues.
> 
> There is a line between, being a good samartian type 1st aid.. and some one that thinks they know what they doing and well do on site procedures past your basic first aid.
> That is mostly well treating shock, checking airways, breathing, breaks and immobilization, stopping bleeding, cpr( also know how to administer an I.V)... So in my mind it is just basically trying to keep the person calm, and treat things you can see like bleeding and so forth.. till help actually arrives.... also imperative to keep an accurate event log of incident from the time you arrive, so that this information can be sent with the patient when paramedics come etc.. More or less time lines, what you did, what they took or ate and drank, injuries you found and treated and how etc.. etc..


That's pretty much it....thanks for filling in the blanks.

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## Rick

Hey Phaedrus, Check with your local hospital, American Heart Association or Red Cross. Our local hospital offers all sorts of classes. I've signed up for the breast feeding class three times but they keep sending me home. I guess the class has been full.

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## Antonyraison

i Have no clue if this link will work.. but here I am doing some cpr at our 1st aid course
https://www.facebook.com/antonylr/vi...235320/?type=3

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## kyratshooter

> Hey Phaedrus, Check with your local hospital, American Heart Association or Red Cross. Our local hospital offers all sorts of classes.


In my area all those courses are given at no cost.

If you want advanced EMT training or first responder training that is often given through local universities. 

FEMA also offers intense disaster first aid training as part of their community outreach.  Upi get in on the community trauma drills and all sorts of stuff working with them.

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## JohnLeePettimore

> Hey Phaedrus, Check with your local hospital, American Heart Association or Red Cross. Our local hospital offers all sorts of classes. I've signed up for the breast feeding class three times but they keep sending me home. I guess the class has been full.


I tried finding classes on DIY gynecology, but no luck.

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## hunter63

> In my area all those courses are given at no cost.
> 
> If you want advanced EMT training or first responder training that is often given through local universities. 
> 
> FEMA also offers intense disaster first aid training as part of their community outreach.  Upi get in on the community trauma drills and all sorts of stuff working with them.


They still do...college, tech school...and Red Cross center....see the schedule in the paper pretty regular.

Used to play racquetball at the Tech school, in the all purpose building...had a gym. locker room/showers, basketball courts etc.

We came off the court after an hour....to fine that some group was staging a trauma, disaster,....with dead people many with horrific injuries....blood and bone sticking out....massive burns....

WTF?????

Looked like someone  had blown up a basketball game.

That was in the early 1990's....never thinking that scenes like this would ever be real...
WOW

Was weird walking thru the bodies to get to the locker room.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

> Hey Phaedrus, Check with your local hospital, American Heart Association or Red Cross. Our local hospital offers all sorts of classes. I've signed up for the breast feeding class three times but they keep sending me home. I guess the class has been full.


You're going about it wrong.  You have to teach the class.

Alan

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## Rick

> I tried finding classes on DIY gynecology, but no luck.


'

First, I'm built all wrong for that. Second, I can't bend over anywhere near that far. I can't even bend over far enough to do naval practice if you know what I mean. Third, I've reached the age that I'm not even certain I remember what all the parts are for. Bits and pieces come back to me but not all at once. Mostly, it's sort of an 'Oh yeah' moment.

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## JohnLeePettimore

> '
> 
> First, I'm built all wrong for that. Second, I can't bend over anywhere near that far. I can't even bend over far enough to do naval practice if you know what I mean. Third, I've reached the age that I'm not even certain I remember what all the parts are for. Bits and pieces come back to me but not all at once. Mostly, it's sort of an 'Oh yeah' moment. [/COLOR]


I didn't mean, DIOY.  I guess I meant "amateur gynecology."

It just goes to show that you never know how people are going to take what you say/type.

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## Rick

Oh Yeah.....See? One of those moments.

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## hunter63

> I didn't mean, DIOY.  I guess I meant "amateur gynecology."
> 
> It just goes to show that you never know how people are going to take what you say/type.


One year I had found a antique Dr.'s black bag at a flea market ....was in good shape.

So added a flashlight and some rubber gloves to the bag....Then go to Halloween costume parties as an "amateur" gynecologist.

Never got any takers........kinda gave up on that.....so now that bag is a my black powder revolver range and storage bag.

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## JohnLeePettimore

> Oh Yeah.....See? One of those moments.


I guess so, huh?

I shouldn't've tried to steal your thunder after the breaatfeeding comment anyway.

All in fun.

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## randyt

I took up that amateur whatever and developed a bad case of tunnel vision.

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## Wise Old Owl

> Again, just curious - what scenario do you envision where the hospitals would be closed?


Didn't we see that in 2017 at Huston?

hospital.jpg

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## crashdive123

> Didn't we see that in 2017 at Huston?
> 
> hospital.jpg


For a few days and very localized.  I just don't see hospitals shutting down for an extended period of time and in a widespread area ---- that's why I asked.

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## Big Bear

Out where I live and even more so many of the places I pack into, you might be a long way from the road. Some places up here it could take multiple days to get to the road. Then you have to load up your horses and drive several more hours to a town big enough to have a fully stocked E.R. The closest on to my house alone is so small that they do not have anti venom and can treat very little out side of larger booboos. Most of the time they just call an ambulance and have take you to the next biggest town that is an hour away if you speed. As such I carry a well stocked get home bag that could last me a week traveling on foot. Part of this bag is a full trauma kit that I added some minor first aid stuff to so it gam treat anything from a booboo to stabilizing a gunshot wound or animal attack so you can get the person beck to the road.

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## kyratshooter

If I ever go hunting with you remind me that I need to bring my Garmin In-Reach so if I am hurt I can press the button on the side and have a helicopter there in 30 minutes.  

Hopefully they will take me straight to a hospital with a landing pad and skip the local vet, and the week long horseback ride holding my guts in with my hands.

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## Rick

You could safety pin them in but...yeah...I get your point. When my grandfather was a young man his appendix burst. He rode in the back of a wagon to the hospital. A bouncy, bumpy ride to the hospital. I have no desire to make that trip a family tradition. If I can arrange for all my accidents to occur in a Level I Trauma Center, all the better.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Hell, walking across the yard is pretty dangerous sometime.  I'll fall down if I stand in one place too long.  

Humorous interlude on trauma...

#1 son was over here cutting up a downed tree.  He said the son of one of his workers had called him (because he didn't want to ask his parent) and asked "How do you know if you've broken your leg?"  #3 said, "Well, for one thing you won't be on the phone asking that question..."  The boy had hit himself on the shinbone with a rubber mallet. 


Alan

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## Rick

#3 asked, "Why on earth would you hit yourself in your shin with a rubber mallet?"

Friend. "I dropped a hammer on my toe and it hurt so bad I had to do something to forget about the pain. 

#3. "Good plan."

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## Kay

As for me, many manufacturers of survival kits and hiking equipment take advantage of the fact that many of people are beginners and do not understand which is more useful. I have very little experience of camping and hiking, but I have already learned that it is better to assemble a first-aid kit yourself, choosing high-quality medicines. The same goes for equipment. This is how I chose everything I needed. But we still have to find a good tent. Looked at an overview of the options in this blog https://homemakerguide.com/best-tents-for-camping/ and as long as the options are pleasant, the prices are normal. Which model do you think will be more practical?

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## Rick

More practical for what? What do you intend to use the tent for and how many people? Are you car camping? Backpacking? How many seasons do you intend to use it? First, you have to define its intended use then you can figure out which tent is best for you.

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## crashdive123

While this sticky is talking about packs and not tents, you will get the idea of what kind of information is needed to give a meaningful reply.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...out-A-New-Pack

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## Kay

> More practical for what? What do you intend to use the tent for and how many people? Are you car camping? Backpacking? How many seasons do you intend to use it? First, you have to define its intended use then you can figure out which tent is best for you.


We are usually 2-3 people. We leave from April to September inclusive. In the cold season, they have not yet tried and not set a goal.

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## crashdive123

Am I understanding that you will be spending 6 months at a time in the tent, or that is just the period of time that you camp?  There are so many questions in order to give you helpful advice.

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## Kay

Oh no, what are you. There is still work to do. We get out for the weekend and when on vacation, then it is possible for a week or so. Unfortunately, modern life allows few people to spend a lot of time as they want.

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## Helenawe

> We are usually 2-3 people


assemble more company

then you can spend more time together

not just for the weekend

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## Rick

When did they move Indianapolis to the Ukraine?

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