# General > General Chat >  Heat trace in septic line

## cj Baker

I have searched and searched, so now I wonder is someone can answer this question for me.
I live in Alaska and have a cabin the is on the grid. Every winter my septic line freezes. I know the problem lies in the fact that the line is too close to the ground surface. And the line doesn't slope enough to drain properly. I inherited this problem when I bought the property. I am on limited income so to dig up the tank and line is sorta out of the ballpark for me. SOOOO.. I was wondering if I could put heat cable like they use for culverts IN the pipe and to the holding tank. The toilet is the only thing attached to the tank and the septic line runs about 35' from flush to tank.
I am planning on digging the line up and trying to insulate this coming summer, but for now I have a frozen line. I have steamed it out in the past and have heard you can hook up a portable welder to the casing and heat it that way. But how to keep it running till spring I thought this might solve the immediate problem.
Question: waterproof trace line in septic pipe?

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## kyratshooter

The problem is not restricted to AK.  I am in north KY and have the same issue.  Frozen is frozen no matter where it is.  My system freezes when the temp goes into the teens for more than a week and requires warmth for two weeks to thaw.  Our systems are shallow and mine freezes where it enters the ground, then freezes solid all the way back to the floor bend where the comode sits.

I am looking into heat cable.  It can be placed INSIDE the pipe.  

PVC does not transfer heat like the old cast iron pipes did.   Therefore a heat tape wrapped around something as big as a sewer line just will not do the job.  I already tried that.  

Heat cable, like they use to melt gutters, is available in any length you want, is heavily covered for abuse in the environment and will work off a 110v GFC.  It is directly in the line and does not have to heat the pipe to work.

I plan on boring a hole in the top of my pipe and running the cable all the way to the tank.  As soon as it thaws.  I will use epoxey to cover the entrance hole and pray for the best.

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## Rick

Why can't you add additional covering to it? You obviously have to unthaw it but wouldn't something added to the surface increase the insulation factor? Can you also add a biodegradable anti-freeze to the toilet? They make it for RVs. Maybe running that through ever second or third flush would get you through to spring.

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## cj Baker

Thanks for the replies. Rick my line is in the driveway, which I do not drive over pipe in winter anymore, but can't cover deeper as to snow removal issues. But good thought. I have put straw bales over as much as I can. Hadn't thought of RV Anti-freeze.. hum.. wheels are turning.
Sounds like we have the same issues Kyratshooter.. so familiar! My heartfelt empathy! lol Think I will try to do this as soon as I can get it thawed out. Good luck to you and thanks for the reply.

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## randyt

I have seen heat cable inside a sewer pipe and it worked fair. the problem is when solid waste gets caught on the cable and then it starts to catch more waste and pretty soon it plugs up. not only would I dig up the pipe and insulate it I would replace the pipe and get some decent pitch to it. I like 1/4" per foot pitch. I have jobs that the drain pipe comes out at ground level and it don't freeze.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

Septic systems generate heat so the easiest thing to do is insulate your pipe. Use the blue board as white styrofoam will load up with water over time. You may not be able to dig down to pipe you you should be able to locate pipe and bury insulation above that will prevent frost from getting to it. Also make sure your vents are clear and have good venting so water is not standing in pipe to freeze. Some systems use plastic pipe so putting welder on system may not work to thaw.

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## Sourdough

If you stop driving over the line it will stop freezing. Or only dig up the part under the driveway and put 4" of Blue Board (polystyrene) in it does not need to be directly on top of the septic line, but above the line. Roughly where is your cabin, just roughly. I am in Hope, Alaska.

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## NightShade

When you dig it up to insulate it you should heavily heat trace the OUTSIDE of the pipe concentrating on the bottom of the pipe...  do not put wires inside the pipe .. you will create blockages that make a freezeup look appealing. Then add the board sourdough reccomended... 

Of course, as u already know, burying it deeper is your best option.

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## randyt

You mentioned having a septic tank. your main drain from the house to the septic tank may be shallow. I don't know your situation but 99 percent of the drains I hook up are septic tanks. the lines are typically 18 inches or so deep. a guy could hand dig that or get some beer and some good young men and get them to dig it. 

in the meantime I would build an outhouse, low tech but reliable.

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## Rick

With a door.

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## LowKey

RV anti-freeze in a leach field???
Or are we just talking a cesspool tank?

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## NightShade

> RV anti-freeze in a leach field???
> Or are we just talking a cesspool tank?


 Exactly!.. anti freeze= great for winterizing a home!
but no good for keeping septic lines thawed.!

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## randyt

> With a door.


a reliable door

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## NightShade

Fix the bad pitch on the pipe.... problem should go away... heat trace pipe.. problem should go away.

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## Rick

They make a drinkable anti-freeze for RVs. I thought if he could use something like that sparingly to get him through until spring it might not mess up the flora in the septic tank and not hurt the grass in the leach field.

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## randyt

yup non toxic propylene glycol. 

I don't know what I've been thinking, must of been a brain burp. I fix these scenarios often. most of the time its a belly in the pipe causing a low spot. the low spot acts as a trap and then freezes. The low spot is caused by improper bedding of the pipe. plumbers protecting the health of the nation since day one <g>

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## Alaskan Survivalist

I have never seen heat tape used for septic systems in Alaska, a properly working system produces heat. There are too many variables to come to a conclusion. Some areas the water table is to high to set system deeper. If I knew what area you are in I would have a better idea of what you are up against. In south central generally 40 inches is the frost depth but that can vary with altitute. Where are you at?

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## cj Baker

Thanks everyone for your replies. I live by the Chugach range. Outside of Anchorage. Close to town, but a cabin is still that.. a cabin! So it's not like Glennallen or Fairbanks weather. Thank Gosh!! The septic is a 2000 gallon holding tank only that has to be pumped when full. So no worries with a leach field or cesspool. I do plan on using the blue board recommended by Sourdough. But that is in the summer when things are better to dig. And like Randyt said ...beer and some young men.. lol may have to through some ribs on the grill too. As far as an outhouse, my bathroom is out of the house in a gambrell style shed, heated and with shower and toilet. The house is set up like an RV with holding tank in attic for water. And when the crapper stops working I have a porta potty. When I moved in the cabin was a 10'x18'. Now I have over 1000 sf. So most of the improvement money has gone towards building, bringing in gas lines and electric, raising my son, and of course the never ending Assessments for whatever the city wants to charge you for.
By the way CJ is a she not a he..lol.. my fault for not mentioning that.

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## Rick

Gosh, you guys can't be more than 40 or 50 miles apart. You're neighbors!

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## cj Baker

Yeah, you Alaskans!! We seem to be neighbors.. so da speak.. big state. LOVIN IT! Thanks for the input everyone. And you too Rick from Far Away Land..

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## randyt

I was thinking about your situation and  I remembered a job I worked on years ago. A fella had built his own house and he had the septic installed but hadn't done any plumbing yet. For "facilities" while he was working on the house he built a outhouse over the lid of the septic tank. That would work for you too beings the holding tank is pumped any ways. figured it could be a option to get ya by.

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