# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  RICE STORAGE.........Brown, wild....??????

## Sourdough

I want to know what type rice to buy, Brown, wild, etc. And how to store it for say 5 years.

I have some new 55 Gal. drums (steel) with locking ring lids.

My plan is to bury the drums in a gravel area on the homestead. Thinking It will be frozen in 5 to 7 months per year, I need to mark the site well, and use only clean gravel, which is dig-able in winter.

The bury idea is because of the refrigeration. Not security.

Ground water does not exist in the gravel area.

Your thoughts on type of rice, and storage. I am thinking about 150# to maybe 300#.......... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## crashdive123

I have stored brown and white rice.  Mine is above ground, so no advice there.  I've got it double bagged in plastic and then sealed in 5 gal plastic buckets.

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## Rick

I favor brown rice but use whatever you like the best. As long as the drum is air tight you should have no problems. If you have any concerns about moisture then add a bag of desiccant to the barrel.

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## canid

ilive in an area with enourmous pantry moth concentrations, so if i'm storing over 50# i pretty much have to use CO2 or Nitrogen gass. the eggs will survive repeated freezing and hatch anytime it's warm. inert gasses prevent them from hatching.

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## Sourdough

> I have stored brown and white rice.  Mine is above ground, so no advice there.  I've got it double bagged in plastic and then sealed in 5 gal plastic buckets.


Crash, Did you use dry ice..???  Any thoughts about bullion, beef or chicken. the plain rice might go down gooder with flavoring. Maybe I could store top roman thingies.

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## Rick

Okay, how does that work. Spray it and slam the lid shut real fast? How do you get the gas inside?

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## crashdive123

> Crash, Did you use dry ice..???  Any thoughts about bullion, beef or chicken. the plain rice might go down gooder with flavoring. Maybe I could store top roman thingies.


I did not use dry ice.  I've got about 75lbs of each the white and brown.  I also have a whole bunch of chicken and beef bullion cubes for flavoring (along with various spices).  The Navy Commissary recently had a sale on the "top roman thingies" (9 cents a pack).  Cashier looked at me kind of funny at checkout with about $20 worth of noodles.  Told her I was having a party and couldn't afford chips and dip.

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## Rick

I can by the six packs for 98 cents and I always load up when I'm at the store. If bad turns to worse, I'll sell it to college kids to make a buck. :Big Grin:

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## Alpine_Sapper

> I did not use dry ice.  I've got about 75lbs of each the white and brown.  I also have a whole bunch of chicken and beef bullion cubes for flavoring (along with various spices).  The Navy Commissary recently had a sale on the "top roman thingies" (9 cents a pack).  Cashier looked at me kind of funny at checkout with about $20 worth of noodles.  Told her I was having a party and couldn't afford chips and dip.


Make sure to rotate your spices or you'll end up with tasteless colored powder. Heat and light deterioriate them, so depending on where you're storing them, they may need to be rotated sooner.

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## crashdive123

Will do.  No light gets to them.  Mostly salt, pepper, garlic, dried chillies, old bay, season all.  Things like oregano, bay leaves, dill, mint, etc. I grow in the garden so they get rotated often.

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## Alpine_Sapper

> Okay, how does that work. Spray it and slam the lid shut real fast? How do you get the gas inside?


Any data on this? Most of what I've found on Pantry moths is clean and use air tight containers, that bags aren't good enough.

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## canid

CO2 is denser than the ambient atmosphere and when sublimated over your storage container will sink, displacing the air already inside.

the same is true for nitrogen.

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## scout61

Hello,
White rice is most likely a better choice for long term storage.  Brown rice contains fatty acids, which will oxidize.  Think of oil going rancid.

Scout

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## canid

oxidtion of fats/oils is likewise not an issue if inert gas storage is used.

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## BraggSurvivor

hopeak, stay away from the steel drums. Use food grade plastic. (new if possible) Dry, it should last decades. Wild rice is actually grass seed. 

I hope this info wasnt useless. :Wink:

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## Rick

Sublimate. Well there you go. Silly me. I sublimate all the time. Twice some days. (checking dictionary).....Ohhhhh, no kidding. I sure thought that meant something else. Oh, well. 


Hey, scout - Welcome!! How about going over to the Introduction section and tell us a little about yourself.

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## canid

it's one of those words with many meanings, like sexual relations or toast.

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## BraggSurvivor

> CO2 is denser than the ambient atmosphere and when sublimated over your storage container will sink, displacing the air already inside.
> 
> the same is true for nitrogen.


Where do you get your nitrogen canid?

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## Rick

Yeah. Toast.

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## canid

for 5gal buckets, you can get small aerosols of it from wine shops. they make them for preserving opened bottles. you put the nozzle in the neck of the bottle, spray a little and re-cork.

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## canid

like this.

this particular bottle uses CO2 and argon in addition to the Nitrogen, but they're all more or less inert and are food grade.

many sources welding gases like argon for welding are also very pure, though i'm not sure i'd trust them.

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## BraggSurvivor

> for 5gal buckets, you can get small aerosols of it from wine shops. they make them for preserving opened bottles. you put the nozzle in the neck of the bottle, spray a little and re-cork.



What % is it?

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## Sourdough

Can I store it in the BIG plastic ZIP LOCK bags it comes in....????? That was my plan, and put the plactic bags inside several 33Gal. trash bags, and put those in the steel drum.

Will that work.........????????

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## canid

i don't know he ratio of the gasses, but those are the only constituents. some i've seen list only nitrogen. i sometimes see them at BevMo.

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## BraggSurvivor

> Can I store it in the BIG plastic ZIP LOCK bags it comes in....????? That was my plan, and put the plactic bags inside several 33Gal. trash bags, and put those in the steel drum.
> 
> Will that work.........????????



Could, but I wouldnt bury them. You said you were more worried about temps?

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## Sourdough

[QUOTE=BraggSurvivor;37702]hopeak, stay away from the steel drums. Use food grade plastic. (new if possible) Dry, it should last decades. Wild rice is actually grass seed. 



What would be wrong with eating grass seed??? 

And I store oats and barley over the winter in a unheated Connex, why could these not be ground and eaten???

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## BraggSurvivor

> i don't know he ratio of the gasses, but those are the only constituents. some i've seen list only nitrogen. i sometimes see them at BevMo.



I can purchase Nitrox gas upto 60% for tech diving. I was just interested in the percentage. I can refill my cylinders for $15.00 (60%0) Pretty cheap if that would work.

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## Sourdough

> Could, but I wouldn't bury them. You said you were more worried about temps?


My understanding is that stuff (Food Stuff) keeps longer if kept cool. And heat accelerates deterioration.

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## BraggSurvivor

[QUOTE=hopeak;37720]


> hopeak, stay away from the steel drums. Use food grade plastic. (new if possible) Dry, it should last decades. Wild rice is actually grass seed. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be wrong with eating grass seed??? 
> 
> And I store oats and barley over the winter in a unheated Connex, why could these not be ground and eaten???



Absolutely nothing, it's the only "rice" we eat around here. Your grains are better off not heated if you can help it. Colder the better. PTO grinders mills could come in handy.  :Wink:  I grind all my raw cattle feed this way. 

55 gallon drum of barley chop costs me $9.00 using raw barley.

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## BraggSurvivor

> My understanding is that stuff (Food Stuff) keeps longer if kept cool. And heat accelerates deterioration.



Five years than should be a breeze.

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## canid

brag, it would help. would definitely slow down any oxidation [takes months to years in cool to cold temps anyway] but i don't know how those concentrations would effect hatching of moth or weevil eggs. i'm certain that figures have been posted by the USDA for commerce at some point.

as for wild rice being grass seed: *all* cerial grain is grass seed.

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## Rick

Unless Hopeak has problems with moths he wouldn't have to be worried about anyway unless he's concerned about moisture. 

Hopeak - Why don't you make up the barrel as intended then create two or three much smaller ones that you could uncrate at 1, 2 and 3 year intervals (or any interval you like). that would let you keep an eye on longevity without having to actually open the big one up. If things look a bit peeked at say 2 years then you know you probably need to uncrate everything and start again. Just a thought.

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## BraggSurvivor

What about soybean?

If your right, my wife is in big crap for making me eat it all these years, I like the fluffy white processed rice better.  :Mad:

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## canid

if he lives in an area where there are insect grain pests, it pays to be certain. you may never have a problem with them, but once they get into a 55gal drum of grain and it's stored for months or more, it's trash. that's a big waste.

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## BraggSurvivor

> Unless Hopeak has problems with moths he wouldn't have to be worried about anyway unless he's concerned about moisture. 
> 
> Hopeak - Why don't you make up the barrel as intended then create two or three much smaller ones that you could uncrate at 1, 2 and 3 year intervals (or any interval you like). that would let you keep an eye on longevity without having to actually open the big one up. If things look a bit peeked at say 2 years then you know you probably need to uncrate everything and start again. Just a thought.



The eggs of the moths are in the grains.

I dont think he would have a problem as I dont, and it alot colder up there than here.

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## canid

soy is not a cerial grain, it's a legume.

it needs consideration for it's fatty acids/oil content for long term storage aswell, as does corn, nuts, etc. for most durations this can be as simple as cool temps but my point with the inert gas storage was the pest concern, and it helps that it alleviates multiple problems.

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## Rick

Man, I wouldn't take a bucket of soy beans if they were free. Chick peas and black eyed peas, yeah. But not soy beans.

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## BraggSurvivor

Thanks canid.

I buy soybeans here for $4.00 a bushell. Grindem into chop and feed it to the pigs mixed with water. They love it.

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## crashdive123

It's true that the eggs of stored product pest moths will survive a freezing, while the adults and larvae will not.  It nitrogen or CO2 loading your storage container is not an option (remember - you'll have to do it after each opening) store your rice in smaller bags (I use double one gallon zip locks)  If eggs hatch they will not get through the plastic bags and contaminate the rest of your supplies.  If however you're in an area that is prone to these critters the nitrogen loading is a good option.  If you're not sure about them - ask to inspect the store that you buy your supplies.  Look high on walls where the wall and ceiling meet.  If they are prevalant where the products are stored you will find lots of little miniature cocoons.

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## Sourdough

WOW .....You guys are cranking out the "GOOD" information. What else you got.

Canid, I am in Alaska, on the Kenai peninsula. It gets warm in the summer. But I do not think the gravel pit would get above 44* F down a few feet, and that would be at most 60 Days per year.

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## crashdive123

One more thing to consider with nitrogen loading your container.  If you're using the zip locks for storage you'd have to load each individual zip lock bag and not the barrel or bucket - don't know if that would work, but I don't see why not and it would eliminate the need to reload your container after each opening.

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## BraggSurvivor

Rice prices jumped 30 per cent to an all-time high on Thursday, raising fears of fresh outbreaks of social unrest across Asia where the grain is a staple food for more than 2.5bn people. 

The increase came after Egypt, a leading exporter, imposed a formal ban on selling rice abroad to keep local prices down, and the Philippines announced plans for a major purchase of the grain in the international market to boost supplies. Global rice stocks are at their lowest since 1976. 

Indonesia warns of unrest as food prices rise - Feb-27Editorial Comment: Biofuels will not feed the hungry - Feb-25High food prices may force aid rationing - Feb-24Wheat prices in biggest one-day rise - Feb-25MF Global takes $141m hit trading wheat - Feb-28MF Global counts the costs - Feb-29On Friday the Indian government imposed further restrictions on the exports of rice to combat rising local inflation, with traders warning that the new regime would de facto stop all Indias non-basmati rice sales. 

The measures include raising the minimum price for selling abroad non-basmati rice by 53 per cent to $1,000 a tonne. Exports of premium basmati rice are likely to continue, although volumes could also suffer as the government also increased the minimum export price and scrapped export tax incentives. 

While prices of wheat, corn and other agricultural commodities have surged since late 2006, the increase in rice prices only started in January. 

The Egyptian export ban formalises a previously poorly enforced curb and follows similar restrictions imposed by Vietnam and India, the worlds second- and third-largest exporters. Cambodia, a small seller, also on Thursday announced an export ban. 

These foreign sales restrictions have removed about a third of the rice traded in the international market. 

I have no idea how importing countries will get rice, said Chookiat Ophaswongse, president of the Thai Rice Exporters Association. He forecast that prices would rise further. 

The Philippines, the worlds largest buyer of the grain, said on Thursday it wanted to purchase 500,000 tonnes after it failed to buy a similar amount earlier this month. It is struggling to import 1.8m-2.1m tonnes to cover a production shortfall and on Thursday confirmed it would tap emergency stocks maintained by Vietnam and Thailand. 

Rice is also a staple in Africa, particularly for small countries such as Cameroon, Burkina Faso and Senegal that have already suffered social unrest because of high food prices. 

Thai rice, a global benchmark, was quoted on Thursday at $760 a tonne, up about 30 per cent from the previous daily quote of about $580 a tonne, according to Reuters data. Some traders, however, said the daily jump was not as steep, adding that Thai rice had already traded at about $700 a tonne this week. 

Rice prices have doubled since January, when the grain traded at about $380 a tonne, boosted by strong Asian, Middle Eastern and African demand. 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d6f1cd74-f...nclick_check=1

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## canid

also remember to use heavy plastic. moths will eat holes right through ziplock freezer bags. i've seen them do it.

also, if you get an infestation and catch it early, you can always re-parch your grain or been type foodstuffs. they aren't toxic, they don't really carry pathogens and they are technically edible, so a few killed in the mix isn't a problem. you can also then winnow them and the ground dust of the grains they've bored into out.

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## GVan

> Make sure to rotate your spices or you'll end up with tasteless colored powder. Heat and light deterioriate them, so depending on where you're storing them, they may need to be rotated sooner.


Every year when I rotate my spices, I dump the old spices, especially the peppers, along the property lines to keep neighborhood dogs off and stop their cr$pp&ng  on the lawn.  This will work with wild animals as well.

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## canid

i go through them pretty fast. a quart bag of my red curry base powder lasts me a few months, the tail end of which will still blow your socks clear off.

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## crashdive123

Hopeak, another thought about storing rice (I'm just starting this now)  is to use 2 liter soda bottles after they've been cleaned and dried.  They're food grade and should hold up better than plastic bags inside your strorage barrels.

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## cabingirl

if you want to store beans, rice, etc, and not worry about opening the  barrel later and finding that bugs have hatched out in the beans, etc, then  you can buy Diatomoceous Earth power. It is made from claim shells,. Any bug that does hatch out, will die. The power is safe to eat. You can also use the power on your garden. I have used it years ago to store beans and rice. I opened the cans about 9 years later and every thing was still good, no bugs.You need to put one cup of power to every five gallon can of beans, or rice, then shake it around to cover every thing.

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## canid

DE is made from the fosilized remains of a type of algae. thank you for the advice; i never though of that stuff for grain storage. i used to use it to keep slogs from damaging my out-door mushroom patches.

i should add that the structure of the silica present can pose respiratory hazards if you breathe the dust, though it is still safe for ingestion.

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## crashdive123

Thanks Cabingirl.

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## Sourdough

You'all see what is going down with "RICE" worldwide. Click on Bloomberg.com

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## BraggSurvivor

Costs up 50% in the last two weeks. Three billion people rely on rice as their main staple.

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## Sourdough

If the rice (20# Bags) comes in a zip-lock bag. Can I just leave it unopened in that bag for two or four years........?????

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## crashdive123

As long as it stays dry.

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## BraggSurvivor

> If the rice (20# Bags) comes in a zip-lock bag. Can I just leave it unopened in that bag for two or four years........?????


You might have to worry about rodents. I put mine in food grade 5 gallon buckets that have the rubber seal on the lid.

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## Sourdough

My "RODENTS" are out of hibernation. I think for the time being I'll just store the rice on the shelf of one of the White 20' CONNEX'S.

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