# General > General Knives & Blades >  List the things you hate to see in a knife

## Lamewolf

Just wondering what things really is a deal breaker for you when buying a new knife.

Mine are:

Serrated edges and saw backs

Hollow handles

Wild handle and blade shapes

Paracord wrapped handles (give me real scales)

Cheap plastic or nylon sheaths

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## hunter63

> Just wondering what things really is a deal breaker for you when buying a new knife.
> 
> Mine are:
> 
> Serrated edges and saw backs
> 
> Hollow handles
> 
> Wild handle and blade shapes
> ...


I guess mine would be about the same......

Add too much money, you should buy higher price knives based on maker....making it an art form.

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## natertot

I pretty much agree, except serrated edges. Half my knives have them, but half don't. I actually find them quite useful on my daily folder.

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## DSJohnson

flashlights..you missed flashlights.  Agree with all of the above pretty much, including the whole name/brand deal that Hunter mentioned.

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## madmax

Sawbacks!

On the matter of serrated edges,  all my water rescue knives have at least some.

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## kyratshooter

I can cope with the hollow handle and saw back if the name brand on the blade says Randall !

Covered three there didn't I  :Punk: 

I can cope with a partially serrated edge as long as there is an inch or two of plain blade near the tip for me to sharpen properly.

As for the sheaths, I have found that if the knife was worth anything in the first place the sheath will be good quality. 

I do despise seeing 440 stainless stamped on a blade.  Grates on my nerves.  Its like saying "genuine cast iron".

While I do not care for wild blade or handle shapes I do like to have something on the handle to "index" from, a finger notch or something. 

*I hate to pick up a knife and not know which direction the cutting edge is facing.*

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## Old GI

Anything with the word "Grylls" on it.

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## natertot

> Anything with the word "Grylls" on it.


You know what? you are absolutely right. Gerber has a fixed blade that I would buy in a heart beat, but the dang thing has Bear Grylls on it and I can't stomach his crap.

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## Tokwan

Hollow handles, rust, cheap plastic handle, blunt edge,

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## Lamewolf

> Sawbacks!
> 
> On the matter of serrated edges,  all my water rescue knives have at least some.


That brings me to a question, what does water have to do with the need for serrated edges ?  I hear folks all the time state that a serrated edge is needed when working around water, and I just don't understand that philosophy.

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## Lamewolf

> You know what? you are absolutely right. Gerber has a fixed blade that I would buy in a heart beat, but the dang thing has Bear Grylls on it and I can't stomach his crap.


I don't think I would buy it if it didn't have his name on it.  I've heard too many stories of the handles coming loose on them and that's a real deal breaker for me !

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## madmax

Lamewolf.  I relate to water situations that you have to saw through synthetic material. Like a synthetic rope or cutting someone out of a pinned kayak on whitewater.  I believe the serrations are far better than just a sharp blade.

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## Lamewolf

> Lamewolf.  I relate to water situations that you have to saw through synthetic material. Like a synthetic rope or cutting someone out of a pinned kayak on whitewater.  I believe the serrations are far better than just a sharp blade.


That's what I keep hearing, but I've tested numerous serrated blades compared to a good sharp plain edge and the plain edge just slices right through without any sawing, so I just don't see it as an advantage.  In my tests, I've used numerous types of cordage and rope plus old seatbelts both wet and dry and the plain edge was much easier for me where the serrated edges just snagged and made the job harder.  So I don't know man ?

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## Wildthang

Have any of you guys ever watched one of those knife shows on TV? Those guys brag it up about their crappy knives that sell for $1.20 apiece! So you know that if anybody actually buys one of their big offers, hundreds of crappy knives are hitting the streets!
I hate those cheap knives that wont keep an edge, and looks like something that should have stayed in China!

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## Rick

Seat belt cutters or rescue tools are simply sharp, straight blades. Each to their own of course but I agree with Lamewolf. A sharp straight blade cuts easily without sawing.

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## crashdive123

> Lamewolf.  I relate to water situations that you have to saw through synthetic material. Like a synthetic rope or cutting someone out of a pinned kayak on whitewater.  I believe the serrations are far better than just a sharp blade.


I somebody gets pinned, use your Crashete and cut off their leg. :Whistling:

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## madmax

> I somebody gets pinned, use your Crashete and cut off their leg.


It's gonna be my best friend.  Whata frickin' BEAST!

A couple weeks and I'm gonna start wackin' hard wood in WNC.

And no.  The Crashete has no serrations.  LOL.

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## Rick

Use your Crashete and cut off the steering column!

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## WalkingTree

I never liked folding knives. At all. I want a single piece of metal, all the way through the handle. A simple thing that's probably not necessary to mention...but that's my first thing. Then I want a handle which isn't hard to handle...kind of fat, so I can hold onto it and control it, not some skinny squarish thing that makes it work more on my hand than the blade works on the job. A little curve at my pinky, and a bit of a stop at my index/thumb. And of course, the handle has to stay the heck on...not come lose after a year cause its cheaply done. Kind of like a wider blade too, no matter what it's particular purpose.

But to heck with folding knives of any kind. I don't care how convenient it seems because it folds...I just don't need that kind of convenience. How much do I really need that insubstantial size reduction for storing and carrying? But knowing that it's a fixed single piece of metal, and no moving parts...I like knowing that.

Actually, to be really serious, I like having everything complete, regardless of the handle...but it is made to expect the handle to give out, and accept redoing the handle in a certain way. I like grip, the kind of grip that certain leather provides. I'm always tempted to add a leather winding around any handle anyway no matter how the knife is made. So it's made to expect for the handle to be remade periodically, and done so by winding leather tightly and skillfully around the metal which is made to provide some of that bulk already and also to easily accommodate a new leather fix.

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## hunter63

What knife are you talking about?

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## Eastree

> ... A sharp straight blade cuts easily without sawing.


But that's part of 'the thing' with a lot of people: It seems there are many who believe a knife must be used to saw through something rather than to cut with a push or slice with a single long pull, whenever possible. I see it with too many knives, but mainly kitchen knives. It bugs the ever-living snot out of me when I see some of the habits so many people have!

I have seen people SAW fishing line, butter, cheese, and more.

I also have met too many people who believe a knife should be as cheap as possible, so it's not a big deal to throw it out when it's too dull to be usable! Generally these are people who are deathly afraid of a razor sharp blade, but don't mind a knife that shreds and tears raw chicken.

OK ... let's see ... things I dislike in knives (which have not been listed)

Thin flimsy blades! It is fine for some pocket knives, to an extent. A Swiss Army Knife is about as thin as I am willing to go, and only because it's an SAK. And of course filet knives and others with a directed purpose like that are an exception. But for the majority of knives, flimsy sucks.

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## Wise Old Owl

Hmm - no longer a fan of Swiss, never used the corkscrew,  Don't like how quick the stainless blade gets dull. Clearly its a starter knife for Wine and cutting Cheese and occasionally opening a beer.

Once I upgraded to Wave there was no looking back - I gave them Swiss all away.

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## Phaedrus

My list is pretty close to Lamewolf's.  I'm also not happy to see 8Cr13MoV stamped on a blade- every one I've ever seen has been junk.

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## Lamewolf

> Hmm - no longer a fan of Swiss, never used the corkscrew,  Don't like how quick the stainless blade gets dull. Clearly its a starter knife for Wine and cutting Cheese and occasionally opening a beer.
> 
> Once I upgraded to Wave there was no looking back - I gave them Swiss all away.


I have the Leatherman Wave and 4 SAKs, the wave stays in a drawer most of the time but it is handy when I go fishing and need to work on a fishing reel, but my SAK camper is in my pocket every day - its just lighter and easier to carry and has a humdinger of a little saw on it if I need to cut saplings to build shelter with.  The main tool I use most often on the SAK is the toothpick ! :Flowers:

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## hunter63

> The main tool I use most often on the SAK is the toothpick !


And the tweezers......
Never with out at least one SAK.....

Would still be "if you only could have one knife"...SAK

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## kyratshooter

I'm the same.  The toothpick on the keychain SAK Classic is used daily.  

Fact is, that little one inch SAK blade is probably the one knife I can count on being with me if I ever do have to "survive".  

The big fancy Scooby-do #777 will probably be home on the shelf in the storage room and it will be me, the SAK Classic and a Brazilian machete left to do the job.

At least I'll have a toothpick.

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## Wise Old Owl

> I have the Leatherman Wave and 4 SAKs, the wave stays in a drawer most of the time but it is handy when I go fishing and need to work on a fishing reel, but my SAK camper is in my pocket every day - its just lighter and easier to carry and has a humdinger of a little saw on it if I need to cut saplings to build shelter with.  The main tool I use most often on the SAK is the toothpick !


That's OK pull out a SAK and make a fuzz stick out of white pine or pine and give it 15 minutes. then do the same with a L Wave. The steel is harder. then check out which one is still sharp. Give it a try.

you can make multiple toothpicks with a Wave.

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## Lamewolf

> That's OK pull out a SAK and make a fuzz stick out of white pine or pine and give it 15 minutes. then do the same with a L Wave. The steel is harder. then check out which one is still sharp. Give it a try.
> 
> you can make multiple toothpicks with a Wave.


My SAK holds an edge much longer than my Wave does, but my SAK is a real old one, don't know about the new ones but the steel on mine is quite hard and holds a good edge.  The steel on my Wave is some sort of cheap soft stainless.  It sharpens easy but also dulls easy and is too heavy to carry every day.

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## MrFixIt

I don't own a Wave, but any of the several SAK's that I own are scary sharp (I keep them that way).
I'm pretty rough on knives, cut wire, dig with the blade, and any other things that you're not *supposed* to do with them.
The edges have always held up really well.

@ Wise Old Owl, I'm not saying this ^ to argue or dismiss your preference(s) in knives, just a little confused as to why you maybe had a dud...?

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## crashdive123

My Wave and the particular SAK I have both hold an edge very well......wouldn't keep them if they didn't.

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## Wise Old Owl

> My SAK holds an edge much longer than my Wave does, but my SAK is a real old one, don't know about the new ones but the steel on mine is quite hard and holds a good edge.  The steel on my Wave is some sort of cheap soft stainless.  It sharpens easy but also dulls easy and is too heavy to carry every day.


Good to know. I have no access to the old ones I am sure they are better than the mass production.. I stopped recommending about 5-6 years ago based on home tests.

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## Wise Old Owl

> I don't own a Wave, but any of the several SAK's that I own are scary sharp (I keep them that way).
> I'm pretty rough on knives, cut wire, dig with the blade, and any other things that you're not *supposed* to do with them.
> The edges have always held up really well.
> 
> @ Wise Old Owl, I'm not saying this ^ to argue or dismiss your preference(s) in knives, just a little confused as to why you maybe had a dud...?


Well, over the years expect change by the maker. I am not rough on knives, I don't often make a fuzz stick, but I do whittle. I just grew out of the Swiss stuff. Sort of like having your first car... as a teen.

Remember when we got 10 MPH to the gallon and didn't know any better... a Jeep was 6!

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## MrFixIt

> Well, over the years expect change by the maker. I am not rough on knives, I don't often make a fuzz stick, but I do whittle. I just grew out of the Swiss stuff. Sort of like having your first car... as a teen.
> 
> Remember when we got 10 MPH to the gallon and didn't know any better... a Jeep was 6!


Agree on the changes, just look at what happened to Gerber...

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## randallss7

Things I hate to see in a knife...any thing cheep, not price wise but quality wise.

I have a L wave and the blade does not hold an edge as well as I would like.  But keeping in mind what leatherman was probably thinking.. they made a softer tougher blade which I don't mind seeing in a tool made for the masses.  the steel is quick to dull, quick to sharpen and will take a fair amount of abuse typical 420 stainless.  You can make a replacement blade or even get them off ebay made from all sorts of upgraded steels.

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## Lamewolf

> Things I hate to see in a knife...any thing cheep, not price wise but quality wise.
> 
> I have a L wave and the blade does not hold an edge as well as I would like.  But keeping in mind what leatherman was probably thinking.. they made a softer tougher blade which I don't mind seeing in a tool made for the masses.  the steel is quick to dull, quick to sharpen and will take a fair amount of abuse typical 420 stainless.  You can make a replacement blade or even get them off ebay made from all sorts of upgraded steels.


I thought about buying a cheaper Mora with a stainless blade and using it to make a new blade for my Wave.  Yeah, a Wave with a scandi grind !

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## rebel

The more I look, the more I learn.  After a chisel grind russian bayonet and using a draw knife, I can see the usefulness.

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## sjj

............................

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## hunter63

I found out about Multi tool way back when.....thought they were the coolest thing since sliced bread, wore them and even gave all my gift exchange family/friends them, as gifts.

They all still carry and wear them, newer and better versions, I sure....and I have left the Leatherman off the belt.....and just carry the little cheapo multi in the belt pouch.....And my SAK.
Like many things, "If a little does a little good, a lot will do a lot of good......." So the ,Leatherman kept getting bigger and better....and heavier.

I don't make fuzz stick often, if ever, and am a wire cutter, digger, and pry-er as well as finger nail cleaner........ but I do get your point about staying sharp...I sure you are correct

But SAK does all the stuff I want to do and fits in the pocket.

PS. there are Multi tools in all vehicles, tackle boxes, and bags........I just don't carry or depend on them on my belt any longer.

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## Sarge47

I don't care much for serrated edges and totally detest the "El Cheapo" hollow handled Rambo knives...even if you get to keep the sheath if you send it back.  I don't buy any knife without knowing the Rockwell numbers and steel type.  Also the way the handle fits to my hand is important.  I own Ontario, Buck, Schrade, Kabar, Gerber, Camillus, victorinox SAK, & Mora, just to name a few and like them all.  I don't care if there's a celebrity's name on it or not as long as it holds up.  Haven't had a bit of trouble with the ones I own.... :Death:

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## Old Professor

I have carried pocket knives since I was about ten years old. (I probably would have carried before that except my mother told everyone that I was never to be trusted with anything sharp!) I seem to always be acquiring new "Tactical" pocket knives from the NRA banquets and other similar sources. However the knife that rides in my pocket at all times is an SAK Treckker model, that I discovered some years back. It has all the blades that I normally use (and one that I don't - the saw blade). It is longer that a typical SAK from my youth but is still light to carry and opens with one hand. I do not like corkscrews on my knives but do like awls/punches.I didn't realize that I had the saw blade on this knife until just now, when I read the specs out of the catalog and checked the knife.  I really feel naked without that knife in my pocket!

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## hunter63

I gonna ask to be buried with a SAK........just in case I need to get out.

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## crashdive123

Or open a brewski.

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## hunter63

...or take a leak?......

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## Wise Old Owl

Both are Stainless Steel and I am splitting hair here on the Rockwell Scale of hardness. I hope this helps get the message out.

Victorinox Swiss Army knives have a Steel Hardness of 55-56 
Leatherman's Wave 420 HC Rockwell 56-59

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## Lamewolf

> I have carried pocket knives since I was about ten years old. (I probably would have carried before that except my mother told everyone that I was never to be trusted with anything sharp!) I seem to always be acquiring new "Tactical" pocket knives from the NRA banquets and other similar sources. However the knife that rides in my pocket at all times is an SAK Treckker model, that I discovered some years back. It has all the blades that I normally use (and one that I don't - the saw blade). It is longer that a typical SAK from my youth but is still light to carry and opens with one hand. I do not like corkscrews on my knives but do like awls/punches.I didn't realize that I had the saw blade on this knife until just now, when I read the specs out of the catalog and checked the knife.  I really feel naked without that knife in my pocket!


I've carried pockets knives since the age of 6.  Mt great grandmother bought me my first 2 pocket knives and I still have them and I'm 59 now.  They were Imperial brand knives about 2 inches long closed and one looks like a little stiletto the other kind of a canoe design.  One good thing about them, even though they were cheap kids knives, they took and held a good edge !

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## Rick

59?! That's AARP age. I'll bet you have to check for mold.

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## TXyakr

Don't like folding knives unless that is the only option available and especially not ones that don't lock open.

I do have a very small round nose serrated river knife I leave on my PFD. mostly for cutting rope and fishing line of illegal trot/limb lines that are hazards on waterways. I.e. get hook stuck in flesh/clothing  cut yourself free fast. Most people carry larger knives. When doing water rescue for triathlon and open water swim I remove all knives and sharp objects, only thing attached to kayak or SUP are water bottle and floatation devices, possibly FAK/CPR. People who "think" they are drowning due to minor cramp lack of training  etc. Will grab all over your boat and you and pull at every thing tring to climb on board. Irrational  people require a calm voice not a sharp knife poking them.

Did any of you watch that knife making contest show on history channel. They were forced to ruin good knives with 4" of sarrations. Also rushed which was interesting but artificial it seemed to me. Most stuff on TV is NOT reality!

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## Sarge47

> I've carried pockets knives since the age of 6.  Mt great grandmother bought me my first 2 pocket knives and I still have them and I'm 59 now.  They were Imperial brand knives about 2 inches long closed and one looks like a little stiletto the other kind of a canoe design.  One good thing about them, even though they were cheap kids knives, they took and held a good edge !


When I was 6 my mother paid us kids 50 cents allowance apiece every week.  I would run down to Woolworths and buy the Imperial "fish" pocket knife; 49 cents and a penny sales tax.  It even had a lock on it.  It was a kind of long, single blade knife that I would play with out in the back yard.  I wound up with a bunch of cuts on my hands that would really freak Mom out so she'd take the knife away from me.  The next week when I got my allowance I'd go back to Woolworths and buy another one.  It'd drive mom crazy!... :Death:

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## Lamewolf

> 59?! That's AARP age. I'll bet you have to check for mold.


Only behind my ears !

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## Rick

I've found if you let it grow on your butt it's makes nice padding.

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## hunter63

Speaking of Imperial Knives....LOL....just picked up one at a flea market.

It's on a old "Imperial" fixed blade knife with pressed metal scales......Made in USA...1960's (?)
This isn't mine, but looks just like it...... but show the sides pretty well

One side....flat
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Other side...you can see where the grind ended next to the hilt...

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## Lamewolf

> Speaking of Imperial Knives....LOL....just picked up one at a flea market.
> 
> It's on a old "Imperial" fixed blade knife with pressed metal scales......Made in USA...1960's (?)
> This isn't mine, but looks just like it...... but show the sides pretty well
> 
> One side....flat
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> Other side...you can see where the grind ended next to the hilt...
> ...


I used to have one just like that Hunter, lost it somewhere years ago.  Almost bought one with a sheath at a feamarket last summer but the guy want 75 bucks for it, I think I paid $1.98 for the one I had !

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## Lamewolf

> When I was 6 my mother paid us kids 50 cents allowance apiece every week.  I would run down to Woolworths and buy the Imperial "fish" pocket knife; 49 cents and a penny sales tax.  It even had a lock on it.  It was a kind of long, single blade knife that I would play with out in the back yard.  I wound up with a bunch of cuts on my hands that would really freak Mom out so she'd take the knife away from me.  The next week when I got my allowance I'd go back to Woolworths and buy another one.  It'd drive mom crazy!...


I've had a few of the fishing knives, but the ones I had also had a scaler blade with a hook disgorger on the end of it.  I took the main blade out of one once and used it to put in a switchblade comb if you remember those so that I had a real switchblade knife.

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## hunter63

LA....paid $3 buck for that one......and remember the folding fishing knives....mine were yellow and another was a like a metallic fish scale that worn mostly off......

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## Wise Old Owl

> 59?! That's AARP age. I'll bet you have to check for mold.


I would suggest looking for spinich between the teeth with a SAK toothpickGuests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## Sarge47

> I've had a few of the fishing knives, but the ones I had also had a scaler blade with a hook disgorger on the end of it.  I took the main blade out of one once and used it to put in a switchblade comb if you remember those so that I had a real switchblade knife.


Come to think of it I seem to remember the scaler/hook disgorger.  It was about 62 years ago and I focused mostly on the blade...then mom took it away and I had to wait until I got my next allowance.... :W00t:

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## DTRobers

In reference to the utility of a saw-back blade I read somewhere that some military knives were equipped with saw teeth so that they could be used to hack through the aluminum skin of an aircraft fuselage if post-crash telescoping or fire made the exits impassable.

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## finallyME

Cheap steel is probably the thing I don't like the most...followed by serrations.

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## NightSG

"Surgical stainless."  Does it really take that much brainpower to notice that surgical sharps are meant to be used once and thrown away?

If you really need a scalpel, they're dirt cheap on eBay.  (I keep a #3 handle and a bunch of #15C blades in the car door pocket for deep splinters.)  I like having a pocketknife sharp and clean enough to to do the job, but when it comes down to it, I'd rather open a fresh, sterile scalpel blade than try to sterilize my knife, then have to clean blood off of it.

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## TXyakr

Two things I don't want in knives:
Over sharpened low angle bevel on a bushcraft multipurpose knife used for wood and cord etc.

Dull high angle bevel on a knife used for cleaning fish. It does not need to please a professional sushi chief and cut ultra Bible paper thin layers of fish but had better not rip the crappie flesh!

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## Wise Old Owl

> I gonna ask to be buried with a SAK........just in case I need to get out.


Watch out for those Zombie Killers.... get's very messy fast.... you may need something bigger than a SAK!


Now what was I doing? let me scratch my head.

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## Erratus Animus

Other than a reference of hardness the Rc is of little use as the elements of the steel itself have more to do with its ability to hold an edge along with how its ground and the secondary bevel angle.

 ex. 01 is a tool steel design to cut other steels. Its optimum range is between 61 and 63 Rc. At 61 the steel is tougher but still holds a good edge. As the rc goes up the toughness of the steel goes down but the wear resistance goes up. Now lets look a A2 which is a tool steel as well and is a step above 01in every category. A2 at 60 Rc is tougher and has higher wear resistance than 01but its Rc is lower. This is because the percentage of alloying elements.  The additional vanadium and chromium in A2 allows it to have a finer , keener edge because of the smaller carbides and better wear resistance not to mention less rust issues. 

Frost mora's are not zero ground. They have a wide primary grind with a micro bevel or ultra fine secondary. This can be seen by taking a new one and holding it in a bright light to see the difference in refraction. Why would they do this? Simple, because with such a steep primary angle and thin stock a zero grind would fail miserably but adding a lower degree micro bevel to the very thin edge of what may first appear to be a zero grind adds a great deal of strength to the edge so it will cut longer. Now if you sharpened the same scandi to a zero grind and never place a micro bevel on it it will get dull faster as the edge will quickly abrade away or roll. This is  one of the issues so many go back and forth about steels and production knives. 

I hate to see anything made from any Asian or Arab land, saw backs, gut hooks, serrations, surgical steel, never needs sharpening, bubba blade, stainless etc

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