# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Lever Gun Advice by Owners for Owners

## sgtdraino

As I mentioned the other day, I just purchased a Puma M92 in .357 Magnum/.38 Special with a 16" barrel and an enlarged lever loop (a la The Rifleman). I got it because I wanted a rifle that shot the same rounds as my revolver, a Ruger GP100.

This is my first lever gun, so I am anxious to learn all I can about care, use, modification, and reliability. The "manual" that came with the rifle was little more than a pamphlet. It does not show how to break down the rifle, and one guy I talked to suggested that I don't ever *try* to break down the rifle. Apparently lever guns are a real pain in the *** to take apart and put back together.

So, any lever gun owners out there? What do you have to say about this class of rifle? Any cool after-market stuff for 'em? I'm thinking about getting the stock shortened a little.

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## Sourdough

Lever guns are both complex in the number of moving parts, and weak in structure hence only low pressure cartridges, with the exception of the BLR, which is stronger. But they are fun and make great carry guns, if your life is not on the line. You can not field strip the leaver gun, as compared to say a Bolt Action like a Winchester M-70 which the bolt can be disassembled in 3 seconds. This is why Professional Hunters and Dangerous Game Guides carry Bolt Action or Double Barrel rifles when afield.

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## Beo

sgtdraino,
I have looked high and low for that for you and can find nothing, the armorer here in our department (I'm a cop) might be able to find something for ya he's gonna check. Like Hopeak said its got a ton of moving parts and most manufactors don't want you to do this. But I'm still looking.
Beo,

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## Ole WV Coot

I have stripped a Marlin Mod. 336C in 30-30. Would I do it again, NO WAY. I had a book around here somewhere with exploded views for ordering parts but that particular firearm wouldn't be in it. Personal preference only is Break Free. I like the dry lube myself and dust doesn't stick as bad. I do own one Marlin and never gave stripping a thought.

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## wallew

sgtdraino,

There are three places for info on lever action rifles that I have in my reference library.  But only two of them are specific to the Rossi Puma.

Those two are Numrich Gun Parts : http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.a...z92%20PUMA&MC=

Which will give you only the exploded diagram of the Rossi Puma, but you have to pay for it.  However, their catalog is a good reference manual because it shows an exploded diagram of almost every firearm made.  It includes a 'cross reference' list.

The OTHER one is the NRA Firearms Assembly book for Rifles and Shotguns.  If you are an NRA member you can probably purchase one.  I think I paid about $25 for mine ten or eleven years ago.

Having said all that, I've scanned in those particular two pages for you.  But the size is 1.88 MB, which means I can't post it.  Drop me an email and I'll gladly send it to you no charge.

hopeak,
No offense, but the "weak in structure hence only low pressure cartridges" is incorrect.  Lever action rifles have been made for cartridges from the lowly .22 to the mighty .45/70 and LOADS of cartridges in between.

Most lever action rifles fell 'out of favor' from the publics eye when semi-automatic rifles hit the scene.  Having said that, there are LOTS of lever action rifles still being made.

Here is but one company that makes some really nice ones.  Most are used by 'Cowboy Action Shooters'.  Just click on 'Repeating Rifles' button on the left.  http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/

Oh, the third reference manual is "The Gun Digest Book of Firearms Assembly/Disassembly - Part IV: Centerfire Rifles - Revised Edition".

With the correct information/reference material, disassembly of any firearm (yes even lever actions) is pretty straight forward.

Hope that helps.

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## Rick

Why not resize the pages so it will post or post it to something like photobucket?

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## Sourdough

Wallew, No offense taken BECAUSE you do NOT know what LOW pressure MEANS. Low pressure does not mean low energy. You do not have a depth of knowledge on this subject. If you want to challenge me, know what your talking about. "How you like them apples"..?


And just for the record: The "Mighty" 45/70 Is a classic example of a "LOW" pressure cartridge.

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## Sourdough

Wallew, pressure is measured in Copper units.......NOT Foot Pounds..... :Smile:

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## wallew

Actually they can be measured in both.  In truth it's not 'copper units' but CUP, but now you are getting into the nuts and bolts of being a gunsmith or a reloader.  I am a degreed gunsmith and have been reloading for years.  My 'knowledge' is very large.  I have been a member of the gun culture for forty years, how about you?  If your knowledge is so great, why is it that I'm the only person to come up with the info that sgtdraino asked for, hmm?

This unit is used in reloading ammunition for hobby shooters it is called CUP and stands for *Copper Units of Pressure*. A small cylinder of copper is placed between a piston and an anvil. When a test shot is fired from a control chamber with the piston in direct contact with the test shot system pressure it crushes this copper cylinder. That is then measured, length wise, and a chart tells the cup used to determine the safety or useabillity of that load. *New systems use piezoeletric pressure transducers to convert to good old fashon PSI*. Is there a conversion for CUP to PSI? Because psi is used to tell steel strength and other points of stress or componant failure it means more to me than the older system. On the other hand cup is used in many reloading manuals for powders that are still in use today but go back almost 100 year.  The link is below:

http://www.convert-me.com/en/bb/view...ghlight=copper

That was not the issue here.  Your statement was lever action rifles couldn't handle high pressure cartridges, except those made by Browning.

THIS IS PATENTLY FALSE.  

The only thing I was trying to do was correct the impression you put out there that lever action rifles cannot handle high pressure cartridges except those made by Browning.

Again, Winchester has been making lever action rifles that handle massive pressure over 100 years ago.  Here's a link to their page on the history of the last Winchester lever action rifles made.  Go look at the Model 94 Timber.  It's made in the 450 Marlin.  Which is definitely not a low pressure round.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodin...y.asp?cat=003C

Here's a link to Guns America, specifically Winchester Model 94's for sale.  If you scroll down the first page there are model 94's in both .22 and 44-40, which covers a pretty large range of cartridges.  

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Ca...r/Model-94.htm

When you make such patently false statements, someone will always call you on it.  Step up to the plate, admit your mistake and move on.  Stop trying to deflect the issue away from the fact that you made a false statement.

Do we next need to cover the Rockwell scale as well?  I've got that info at hand if you need it.

Rick, if I did shrink it down so it would fit, sgtdraino would be unable to read it.  It's only two pages and the print is really small.  But, because you asked, here it is.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## Sourdough

Sorry don't need any of your information, The more you post the more YOU make my point for me. I have only been reloading for 51 years, I have only built nineteen .458 Winchester Magnums. Served a four year apprenticeship, and am a Journeyman Machinist. Spent 34 years as a professional hunter.

And you still do not know pressure from energy. How you like them apples.

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## Rick

I don't know pressure from shinola. My knowledge is very small. I've never rebuilt anything I couldn't afford to have rebuilt for me. But I do know this. This thread is going no where fast. I also know the first liar never stands a chance so put it to bed. Okay? Go wash your hands and get ready for dinner.

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## Sourdough

O.k.dokie.............But, it is only lunch time here.....? And just that quick I've been moved from A Distinguished road, to lier's boulevard. O'well one day chicken next day feathers..... :Smile:   Yummy, I like these APPLES.

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## crashdive123

> I don't know about a puma but, my Marlin 1895 breaks down real easy.  Just lever the bolt back and take out the lever screw.  Then it all falls apart for cleaning.


I'm pretty good at taking stuff apart......it's the putting back together that sometimes gives me trouble. :Big Grin:

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## Rick

Man, me too. AND..... I always seem to put it back together with fewer parts than the factory did.

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## fitfisherman

I have an old .32 winchester special lever action I use for a swamp gun deer hunting.  Its very reliable but it will jam if you baby it.  You gotta rack that gun like a man.  LOL

I don't see a need to take it apart because I can lubricate all the moving parts without doing so.

its very similiar to a 30/30 only slightly higher caliber, less velocity and more of a punch.  I love that gun and have killed many a deer with it.  Drops them right in their tracks 75% of the time.

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## sgtdraino

Thanks for all the information guys, I appreciate it. Still haven't had opportunity to fire my rifle yet, too low on fundage. Hopefully next month!

As I said, I got the rifle because I wanted a carbine that would fire .357, and it seemed like lever action rifles are the only kind in existence that do.

I'm curious, is that true? If so, it seems to me like this is a niche just waiting to be filled. Something a bit more reliable, fewer moving parts, easier to take down and put together, and without the worry of the tubular magazine limiting the kind of bullets you can load into it.

Are lever actions really the only .357 carbines out there?

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## sgtdraino

What sorts of accessories do you guys recommend for your lever actions? Slings? Scabbards? Aftermarket stocks? Scopes?

How about modifications?

Has anyone done "The Rifleman" screw trick?

What is your prefered carry method? I think ultimately I would like to attach a scabbard to the side of my pack.

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## rightcoast

You have a Rossi Puma 92, if that helps look up more info. This site has manuals for about any gun commonly owned, including the Rossi Puma 92.

http://www.stevespages.com/page7b.htm

I have a Westerfield M72 .30.30 (Mossberg), and it is a P.I.T.A to take down. Most lever guns are unless you are used to it. Pay attention though, and it is not brain surgery. You can take that thing down to 30 seperate parts and if you were careful about what you put where and have the right manual it's fairly easy to put back together. The P.I.T.A part is organizing and being careful about what you put where.

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## sobeit

> Thanks for all the information guys, I appreciate it. Still haven't had opportunity to fire my rifle yet, too low on fundage. Hopefully next month!
> 
> As I said, I got the rifle because I wanted a carbine that would fire .357, and it seemed like lever action rifles are the only kind in existence that do.
> 
> I'm curious, is that true? If so, it seems to me like this is a niche just waiting to be filled. Something a bit more reliable, fewer moving parts, easier to take down and put together, and without the worry of the tubular magazine limiting the kind of bullets you can load into it.
> 
> Are lever actions really the only .357 carbines out there?


Thomson center makes a encore barreal in 357 i thank

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## sgtdraino

> Thomson center makes a encore barreal in 357 i thank


What is Thomson center, and what is an "encore barreal?"

EDIT: Aaaah, the Contender, gotcha. Still, I was hoping for something with an ammo capacity beyond 1.

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## Jimbow1965

Not to stir up an old pot of stew.....But.....
Winchester chambered an 1886 model lever gun in  356 Winchester.
The 458 Winchester Mags CUP is supposed to be maxed at 53,000 CUP.......The 356 Winchesters CUP ( a lever gun cartridge) Max was 52,000 CUP....Not too low pressure to me.
And yes I am a lever gun fan...I admit it.
And the 357 mag lever gun is a great gun. I have a marlin...well 2...one in 45/70 and the 357....Oh and 2 Winchesters a 44 mag and a 22 lr.
I love 'em. Bang, slackslack, bang,slackslack,bang

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## crashdive123

Hey Jimbow, how about shooting on over to the Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself.  Thanks.

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## sgtdraino

What sort of a sling would you guys recommend for a lever gun? It seems like many don't have traditional sling swivels. Mine just has that single ring on the side.

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## Sourdough

> Not to stir up an old pot of stew.....But.....
> Winchester chambered an 1886 model lever gun in  356 Winchester.
> The 458 Winchester Mags CUP is supposed to be maxed at 53,000 CUP.......The 356 Winchesters CUP ( a lever gun cartridge) Max was 52,000 CUP....Not too low pressure to me.
> And yes I am a lever gun fan...I admit it.
> And the 357 mag lever gun is a great gun. I have a marlin...well 2...one in 45/70 and the 357....Oh and 2 Winchesters a 44 mag and a 22 lr.
> I love 'em. Bang, slackslack, bang,slackslack,bang



They achieved those results they had to drastically thicken the wall thickness of the case for the 356 Winchester cartridge, so it would take the pressure.

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## Sourdough

> What sort of a sling would you guys recommend for a lever gun? It seems like many don't have traditional sling swivels. Mine just has that single ring on the side.


Uncle Mike makes Quick Release system for the magazine tube, and just add a standard QR stud to the butt stock. The ring you refer to is the saddle'ring so if you loose your grip on the firearm while on horseback and shooting a bad guys, you don't loose your rifle. But somehow I am guessing you knew that.

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## SARKY

Hey sgtdraino
 The 38/.357 can also be had in a pump action. Check out the Taurus forearms web site. It is based on the Colt lightning pump action rifle. If you are a pump shotgun kinda guy this rifle makes a lot of sense. As far as lever guns go i'm a Marlin guy, I like the solid reciever with side eject, just in case I want to scope it. Now to stir the pot a little....Lever guns can be strong enough to take most calibers! Look at the Savage model 99.

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## RBB

> Hey sgtdraino
>  The 38/.357 can also be had in a pump action. Check out the Taurus forearms web site. It is based on the Colt lightning pump action rifle. If you are a pump shotgun kinda guy this rifle makes a lot of sense. As far as lever guns go i'm a Marlin guy, I like the solid reciever with side eject, just in case I want to scope it. Now to stir the pot a little....Lever guns can be strong enough to take most calibers! Look at the Savage model 99.


Or Winchester Model 95...

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## Sourdough

> Hey sgtdraino
>  The 38/.357 can also be had in a pump action. Check out the Taurus forearms web site. It is based on the Colt lightning pump action rifle. If you are a pump shotgun kinda guy this rifle makes a lot of sense. As far as lever guns go i'm a Marlin guy, I like the solid reciever with side eject, just in case I want to scope it. Now to stir the pot a little....Lever guns can be strong enough to take most calibers! Look at the Savage model 99.



Or the BLR

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## Jimbow1965

Just tellin' ya what I know. Look it up.

Later.

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## Jimbow1965

Wheres the introduction section?
Well...Here it is I'm 43, male...feel 63....shooter, hunter, have done some of everything, not great at anything, Been everywhere (in the US) and no where special.
I like long guns, not much use for handguns, live in the northeast, drink bourbon, and love(d) my country untill Nov of 2008, Then they threw it away and I don't think it will be what I loved any more. So I would like to move to Canada so I don't have to watch my beloved country die. Thats it...Thats all there is. Kind of a boreing guy.....Jimbow1965

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## Pal334

> What sort of a sling would you guys recommend for a lever gun? It seems like many don't have traditional sling swivels. Mine just has that single ring on the side.


Since you have the saddle ring already, perhaps you want to consider a "single point" sling. Here is a link with one type:

http://www.spectergear.com/hsts.htm

And here is a "do it your self"  site for making one:  http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/20...e_point_sling/

Single point has always been a favorite of mine, maybe would fit your mode of carry and or use.

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## Pal334

Found a site that has this applied to a lever action:   http://www.castbullet.com/srsling.htm

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## RichNH

I CAN HELP!    If you go back to the top level menu and scroll down, there's a whole topic dedicated to introductions.

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## palm stalker

i had a marlin 336c in .30.30,bushnell 4x9, open sites below..swing swivel, quik remove wide sling. shot 150,170 & 55 grain excellerators in sabot.. best rifle for fla brush..

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## outbac1

I use my grandfathers Win 94 (32Win Spl). Old but still drops deer. It has never been apart. Get a can of Birchwoods Casey's "Gun Scrubber" Clean it the best you can, then spray the crap out of it. Give it a light lube and it should be good to go. 

  I mounted a Leupold long eye relief 2x scope on the barrel of mine and it works good. I had bought the mount from "Brownells" a few years ago. Drilling and tapping were required. Slig swivels should be available from "Uncle Mikes".

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## klkak

> As I mentioned the other day, I just purchased a Puma M92 in .357 Magnum/.38 Special with a 16" barrel and an enlarged lever loop (a la The Rifleman). I got it because I wanted a rifle that shot the same rounds as my revolver, a Ruger GP100.
> 
> This is my first lever gun, so I am anxious to learn all I can about care, use, modification, and reliability. The "manual" that came with the rifle was little more than a pamphlet. It does not show how to break down the rifle, and one guy I talked to suggested that I don't ever *try* to break down the rifle. Apparently lever guns are a real pain in the *** to take apart and put back together.
> 
> So, any lever gun owners out there? What do you have to say about this class of rifle? Any cool after-market stuff for 'em? I'm thinking about getting the stock shortened a little.


I have a stainless M92 in .44 magnum.  Its a pretty good gun.  I will second the advice you have received.  Don't take it apart unless absolutely necessary.  Blow the action out with an air hose and use a bore snake for the barrel.  If you have some specific questions about the Puma I would be happy to help you out all I can.  I have experienced just about everything that can go bad or break on one.

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## Beans

I have used  Marlin Lever guns in Cowboy action shooting for over 20 years and they come apart and go back together without any problem. I have disassemble, repaired and reassemble them between match stages. I am not a gunsmith.

FWIW A local PD in southern Nevada was testing some "Bullet proof" material to install in the walls of their radio room that could be viewed by the public. The material was rated to stop a .357 Magnum rd. *Plus*.

I walked onto the  police range the day they were testing the material and I was carrying a Marlin model 1894 in .357 Mag. 

Short Cut the story. The several .357 rds used for testing, when fired from the Marlin, zipped through the "Bullet Proof" material like it was made of Levis.

OOPS! Back to the drawing board and they changed the specs.

DO NOT try to make your lever gun into a "Black Gun" however you can put out some amazing fire power with a little practice.  Ten rds in less then 8 seconds, using  either full power 44 Mag or .357rds, with ever round hitting a 12 inch steel plate at 25 yards.  If you use *cowboy* loads instead of full power loads the time is less somewhere around 4-5 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOsQ9...eature=related

Note that he started the string of fire with the rifle at his shoulder you can add a second or two if he would have started with the rifle lying on the table,  which is the normal starting position for CAS ( Cowboy Action shooting)

As far as the rifleman "screw" *with practice*  everytime you lever a round, your finger *can*  pull the trigger when the lever closes and the rifle is at your shoulder so you have aimed fire not the fire from the hip spray and pray method  not withstanding the TV series.

For field work the only mods i would make would be an ammo carrier that slips over the butt stock.

The sling is optional, while hunting with the lever gun I find the sling a PITA as the lever gun, for me, carries easy. 

When hiking, not hunting, with the lever gun I find a sling useful or I just strap it to my pack.   I do/have carried a light rope for  a hasty sling and other uses when I felt a sling would be helpful, climbing trees, traversing steep/difficult terrain. 

A sling with quick detachable sling swivels can be used, but it limits the sling to being mostly a sling where as the light rope *can* easily be used for many other uses.

For those that use a bolt gun I always use a sling on mine. I just have a different mind set about lever guns.

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## klkak

For Home defense I have my Winchester and Puma .44 magnums loaded with CCI Blazer 200gr. .44 specials.  These rounds have the Speer 200 gr. Gold Dot jacketed hollow point.  They are not real expensive so I can afford to practice with them also.

My bush rounds are the Buffalo Bore 255gr. Keith style, hard cast lead flat point.

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## SARKY

I have a pair of Marlin 1895s in .41 mag, it makes a great companion gun for my .41 mag pistols. You can't go wrong with the hard cast heavy Keith style bullets.

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## klkak

I've been hearing lately that Marlin is coming out with a new Express round for their XLR rifle.  Well I recently read in Rifle Shooter magazine that the new round is called the .338 Marlin Express.

With its 200gr. flex tip bullet it mirrors the 30.06 180gr. load in energy and trajectory out to 400 yards.  At 300 yards it still has nearly 2000 ft lbs of energy.

I'm thinking that I may not be able to live without one of these.

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## hound

I use a marlin 336-c chambered in 35 remington and love it. A 200 grain bullet is best for my gun. I had a sling on it but decided to remove it because a weapon with a sling ends up on your shoulder. At least in my case it does. If I could find a combat sling like I used in Iraq I would use that but have'nt found one for my rifle. Lever action rifles are fine guns for hunting in my opinion.

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## gunrunner

There is a company (cant remember the name) that makes or made a pump 357 mag. looks almost the same as a rossi 22 pump. Seems the name had timber in it . If i find out ill repost

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## crashdive123

You might be talking about the  IMI Timberwolf .357mag pump rifle.  From what I found, it has not been made in about 20 years.

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## SARKY

There are several companies that make a copy of the Colt lightning pump rifle, including Taurus. It is available in .38/.357, 45LC, 44-40, 38-40, mostly old west caliber as it is big in the SASS comunity.

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## HaroldB

I use my Rossi M92, with .38spl reloads, at least twice a month in Single Action Shooting Society competition.

It's quite easy to take-down for cleaning and repair, and as you've seen, lots of web-sites giving directions. I've had a local gunsmith "smooth" the action and it's VERY reliable.  The original Assault Rifle  :Drool: 

I also shoot a Marlin 1894 model, shooting both .44 spl and .44 magnum, to match my Ruger Blackhawk in 44.   The marlin is VERY strong and several models of their lever actions shoot BIG caliber rifle rounds.

The habit of carrying rifle/pistol's that shot the same rounds came from cowboys in the 19th century who wanted to only carry one type of ammo on those long trails. :Cool2:

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