# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Hunting & Trapping >  .410??

## nell67

I am getting a Rossi .410 to use as a hunting gun,it has an interchangable .22 barrel.

I know it's small caliber,but I have issues holding up heavier guns and keeping them steady while sighting in,I shoot off handed (pretty good shot,IF I can keep it steady) due to muscle nerve damage in my right arm wrist.


I know deer can be taken with this gun,and Amish neighbor took 3 with a .410 this season.

I just want to make sure when I take the shot,I am putting the animal down not maiming it.any words of wisdom on using the .410 ( Gonna be doing a lot of target shooting with it before next hunting season,and other suggestions?)

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## Sourdough

Did they pull your lic. to harvest deer with your truck...........Hehehe

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## Sourdough

Is Indiana a shotgun only state, or could a rifle be used for deer hunting......?

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## nell67

> Did they pull your lic. to harvest deer with your truck...........Hehehe


No,but the insurance hit me where it hurt,LOL!


My Amish neighbor is still giving me crap over BRAKING,when a huge buck jumped in front of my jeep about a month ago,he looked at me and said "you know thats a trophy buck,right??? If you have stepped on the gas,you coulda had him!"

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## nell67

They have been allowed since 2007,with a few exceptions as to casing size.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...er_weapon.html

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Nell,

I have a few .410's for my daughter to learn with. I have never used them on deer. I have however purchased 3" triple 000 buck and patterned it at targets. I'd say inside of 25 yds. it would work. The pattern outside of that was off the target. The 3" triple 000 is comprised of 3 .410 cal slugs. Note also my daughters 2 are full choke.

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## nell67

> Nell,
> 
> I have a few .410's for my daughter to learn with. I have never used them on deer. I have however purchased 3" triple 000 buck and patterned it at targets. I'd say inside of 25 yds. it would work. The pattern outside of that was off the target. The 3" triple 000 is comprised of 3 .410 cal slugs. Note also my daughters 2 are full choke.


 Gonna have to be REAL close then!

and tree stand would be out of the question? I have a blindmand figured thats the way to go,the be down on an even level to get a more accurate shot.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> Gonna have to be REAL close then!
> 
> and tree stand would be out of the question? I have a blindmand figured thats the way to go,the be down on an even level to get a more accurate shot.


I would think a treestand would be an option. Down here we hunt one of 2 ways. close in thick cover stands are 10 to 12 ft. high. and over fields (100+yd. shots) stands are 15 to 20 ft. I have taken many deer in range of a .410 in thick cover in a 10 ft. stand, just not actually using a .410. Our thinking is tall stands are for high powered rifle shots, you want the shot trajectory to be at the ground. We never shoot hi-power rifles from the ground. A ground blind will work too, but I have never hunted that way.

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## beetlejuicex3

Well placed, 3", heavy slug at under 50 yards. Kinetic energy and shot grouping drops off quickly after that.  Make sure .410s are legal for deer where you live.  I have doubts about .410 buckshot on a deer no matter what the range.

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## Rick

SD - Anything .357 or larger and soft point. It must also be no less than 1.16 inches in length and no more than 1.625 inches. Handgun is legal, too and there are stipulations on ammo for them.

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## kyratshooter

A .410 slug is 80 grains.  That is like trying to kill a deer with a .380 pocket pistol.  I know it has been done but there are better ways to do it.  

I have lived near the Amish and do not adhere to their hunting methods.  Most feel they sould be exempt from the game laws and hold themselves above those laws as they do many others.

Go with the 20ga/.22 rossi package.  they even offer their 20ga as a slug gun.  

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/53824

At the least I would buy the 20 package and cut the barrel to 18-19 inches and mount some of the magnetic or stick on sights now available on it.  Midway has 11 pages of sight choices.    

It would only weigh a few ounces more than the .410 trube and give you three times the gun, and a proven deer killer.

The small game shells are cheaper too and you have a better choice in slug loads.

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## nell67

> A .410 slug is 80 grains. That is like trying to kill a deer with a .380 pocket pistol. I know it has been done but there are better ways to do it. 
> 
> I have lived near the Amish and do not adhere to their hunting methods. Most feel they sould be exempt from the game laws and hold themselves above those laws as they do many others.
> 
> Go with the 20ga/.22 rossi package. they even offer their 20ga as a slug gun. 
> 
> http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/53824
> 
> At the least I would buy the 20 package and cut the barrel to 18-19 inches and mount some of the magnetic or stick on sights now available on it. Midway has 11 pages of sight choices. 
> ...


I have shot the 20 gauge,and it's weight is why I didn't go that route,part of gun control is hitting what you aim at,and if you can't hold it steady,you can't control it ( I have a surgical scar from my wrist,to above my elbow,on the underside of my arm,where muscle and nerve grafts were done from a "burn" injury).
I was no where near hitting a target,without laying the gun on a support.

THe Amish in my area.other than not wearing a seat belt in a vehicle,follow the laws like the rest of us,I guess that depends on the order of Amish.

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## Winnie

I have to agree with others, Nell. I've had a .410 single barrel full choke and it's really no more than a vermin gun. The range is pretty poor too. Have you tried a 16 bore? I had a little beaut. It was a side by side double barrel with a full and three quarter choke. Lovely balance and about the same weight as the .410.

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## hunter63

I am with the others that consider a .410 absolute min performance, for a sure kill.
I guess I having a hard time seeing much difference for a Rossi .410 and a a Rossi 20 ga as far a weight of gun goes.

Recoil would be a bigger issue than actual weight, in my mind, as it seen that with the 20ga, you are throwing 5/8 oz of lead, much more mass that a .410. (I would have to look up the actual weights, I just going with what I shoot in my H&R SS.

If this is the case, and they are legal in your state, I would practice, till I was confident in where it shoots at different ranges.
Shot placement trumps cal every time.

I also have tried the 3 000 buck shells as well, mostly in a derringer, am was not impressed at any range over 8 ft, (of course that is in the derringer with a  4" barrel.

I would not even consider using them for a deer load, unless I really, really had to.

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## kyratshooter

> I have shot the 20 gauge,and it's weight is why I didn't go that route,part of gun control is hitting what you aim at,and if you can't hold it steady,you can't control it ( I have a surgical scar from my wrist,to above my elbow,on the underside of my arm,where muscle and nerve grafts were done from a "burn" injury).
> I was no where near hitting a target,without laying the gun on a support.
> 
> THe Amish in my area.other than not wearing a seat belt in a vehicle,follow the laws like the rest of us,I guess that depends on the order of Amish.


It just happens that I have both a .410 and a 20 ga SS sitting here before me.  Removing the barrels and weighing the two rendered an amazing fact.

The 20 ga is lighter than the .410 by about 4 oz.  Both barrels are 26", the 410 is full choke and the 20 is modified.  Rossi lists both at the same 5 pound weight.

The .410 has more meat in the breech area even though the barrel is more slinder at the muzzle.  If I cut the 20 ga barrel to 18" it would be considerably lighter than the 410.

It is a difference in balance you are feeling, not a weight difference.

If you need a rest get one.  There are several shooting sticks on the market or you can make your own stick with a v on top for a rest.  Even a hiking stick or ski pole will work.  Leanb against a tree or use a fence post if you have too.  I shoot muzzle heavy BP guns a lot and use a rest without hesitation.  The first thing most pro-hunters and guides will tell you before taking a shot is to get into a rest position.  No one can shoot good groups offhand, even without nerve damage, it is a myth.

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## beetlejuicex3

Here's a guy who touts heavy .410 slugs.  Specifically Brenneke's 188gr Silver Slug. A well placed 800 ft-lbs will take a deer.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

I use a 410 but mine can also shoot the 45 Colt that is a big step up from the 410. The 410 has a very limited range and I can see the shot when it looses velocity and drops to the ground. The shells are expensive also. Mine is a handgun used for the opportunities that present themselves on the trail. I very much have liked the 20 guages I have had and have heard of new sabots for them that rival rifle cartridges although I have not used them. The 20 guage may very well be a better survival cartridge and the deciding factor for me would be the firearm.

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## nell67

> It just happens that I have both a .410 and a 20 ga SS sitting here before me. Removing the barrels and weighing the two rendered an amazing fact.
> 
> The 20 ga is lighter than the .410 by about 4 oz. Both barrels are 26", the 410 is full choke and the 20 is modified. Rossi lists both at the same 5 pound weight.
> 
> The .410 has more meat in the breech area even though the barrel is more slinder at the muzzle. If I cut the 20 ga barrel to 18" it would be considerably lighter than the 410.
> 
> It is a difference in balance you are feeling, not a weight difference.
> 
> If you need a rest get one. There are several shooting sticks on the market or you can make your own stick with a v on top for a rest. Even a hiking stick or ski pole will work. Leanb against a tree or use a fence post if you have too. I shoot muzzle heavy BP guns a lot and use a rest without hesitation. The first thing most pro-hunters and guides will tell you before taking a shot is to get into a rest position. No one can shoot good groups offhand, even without nerve damage, it is a myth.


You are probably right about it being a balance issue,I  just know,that for me,holding the 20 in a firing position,it was unsteady and felt heavy in my hand,and that very well could be exaggerated with the weakness in my arm,not the gun itself,I have not held the 2 side by side without the barrels.

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## shiftyer1

I've never had a problem using my .410 for deer.  Don't use buck shot use slugs!!!  I only shoot neck shots.

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## Sarge47

It's cool Nell, just take the .22 barrel along with.  Shoot the dear with the .410 and if he doesn't die, swap out the barrels and finish it off with the .22.  Anyway, you should be all right if you aim for the throat!  BTW, both my wife & I have the same gun in .20ga/.22!  You have good taste!   :Thumbup1:

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## Sarge47

> I've never had a problem using my .410 for deer.  Don't use buck shot use slugs!!!  I only shoot neck shots.


 Hey shiftyer, didn't see an intro, why not give us one?

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## Rick

> I've never had a problem using my .410 for deer.  Don't use buck shot use slugs!!!  *I only shoot neck shots.*


Why??...............

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## Old GI

We gave our grandsons Rossi Combos in .410/.22 and 20 ga/.22 last year.  Wonderful guns.  I use a, 870 in .410 for hunting small game and varmints because my shoulders can't handle the impact of a larger shotgun.  I don't intend on taking deer with it though.  As stated in another thread, I use my 870 in 12 ga for home defense with just a pistol grip.

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## kyratshooter

If you people can guarentee head or neck shots with a .410 smoothbore you are in the top 1% of the worlds' sharpshooters!

You are not going to be able to call your shots at anything past 5 yards with a .410 slug from a full choke barrel.  You are not talking about a Hastings rifle barrel with scope and 12 ga sabbot-slugs.  We are discussing the absolute worst legal gun/ammo combination one can take into the deer woods.

What one can or has gotten away with is not the point. There are folks out there that have robbed more than one bank and broken the speed laws a time or two.  That does not mean everyone needs to do those things.  I am seeing more and more posts about people killing deer with .177 pellet rifles these days.  That does not mean I am going to promote it, or even believe it.

And that comment on finishing off the deer with the .22 is promoting an action that will get you jail time in most states, espically the "shotgun only states".  In my state you can not have rimfire ammo on you while hunting big game or slugs on you while hunting small game. 

The only way I would use a .410 slug on deer is if I was shooting one that was standing on the patio, I was 10 feet away at the back door and .410 was the only gun in the house and the kids were starving.

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## nell67

> If you people can guarentee head or neck shots with a .410 smoothbore you are in the top 1% of the worlds' sharpshooters!
> 
> You are not going to be able to call your shots at anything past 5 yards with a .410 slug from a full choke barrel. You are not talking about a Hastings rifle barrel with scope and 12 ga sabbot-slugs. We are discussing the absolute worst legal gun/ammo combination one can take into the deer woods.
> 
> What one can or has gotten away with is not the point. There are folks out there that have robbed more than one bank and broken the speed laws a time or two. That does not mean everyone needs to do those things. I am seeing more and more posts about people killing deer with .177 pellet rifles these days. That does not mean I am going to promote it, or even believe it.
> 
> And that comment on finishing off the deer with the .22 is promoting an action that will get you jail time in most states, espically the "shotgun only states". In my state you can not have rimfire ammo on you while hunting big game or slugs on you while hunting small game. 
> 
> The only way I would use a .410 slug on deer is if I was shooting one that was standing on the patio, I was 10 feet away at the back door and .410 was the only gun in the house and the kids were starving.


Ky,

  No need to get upset,I am NOT out to break any laws,nor do I wish to injure an animal that I may not be able to finish off.

I chose this gun because *I* have physical limitations holding a heavier or as the case may be a less balanced gun,am I apposed to shooting with a gun on a rest?? No. But my preferred method would be on my feet,in total control of the firearm I am holding,IF that means that I can not take a deer with my gun,so be it, I WILL NOT shoot an animal if that animal is going to suffer because of me,this is what I have to live with.

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## kyratshooter

I am not "upset".  I simply see a bunch of contridiction and misinformation.  

We all have limitations we work around.  For some it is eyesight.  For that most of us use scopes rather than refusing to shoot.  

I have a bad back.  I work within strict rifle weight limitations, as you do.  I make my rifle/caliber choices inside those limitations.

I also use a shooting stick rather than pass up shots or not hunting at all.

I am having trouble understanding why there is adverse reaction to using optional equipment w/an adequite caliber rather than standing alone with a.410?
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#sho..._1-2-4_8-16-32

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## klkak

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
Pardner® Compact
Perfect for youth and small-statured adults, this downsized Pardner is equipped to be identical to the original.

20 Gauge (SB1-250)

Stock American hardwood, walnut finish, straight grip, recoil pad.
Barrel 22" 
Chamber Up to 3" 
Sights Bead front 
Choke Modified 
Length 36" 
Length of Pull 12-1/2" 
Drop at Comb 1-1/2" 
Drop at Heel 2" 
*Weight 5-5 1/2" lbs.*

Nell I own one of these and would not hesitate to shoot a deer with it. My 8 yr old grandson uses it when I take him hunting. He likes it better then the .410.

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## Rick

They also offer the Pardner in a compact pump version. 6 1/2 pounds.

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## shiftyer1

> Why??...............


Because thats how I was taught,  never thought to ask why.

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## shiftyer1

> If you people can guarentee head or neck shots with a .410 smoothbore you are in the top 1% of the worlds' sharpshooters!
> 
> You are not going to be able to call your shots at anything past 5 yards with a .410 slug from a full choke barrel.  You are not talking about a Hastings rifle barrel with scope and 12 ga sabbot-slugs.  We are discussing the absolute worst legal gun/ammo combination one can take into the deer woods.
> 
> What one can or has gotten away with is not the point. There are folks out there that have robbed more than one bank and broken the speed laws a time or two.  That does not mean everyone needs to do those things.  I am seeing more and more posts about people killing deer with .177 pellet rifles these days.  That does not mean I am going to promote it, or even believe it.
> 
> And that comment on finishing off the deer with the .22 is promoting an action that will get you jail time in most states, espically the "shotgun only states".  In my state you can not have rimfire ammo on you while hunting big game or slugs on you while hunting small game. 
> 
> The only way I would use a .410 slug on deer is if I was shooting one that was standing on the patio, I was 10 feet away at the back door and .410 was the only gun in the house and the kids were starving.


I wasn't allowed to use anything bigger than a 410 until I was around 13 or so.  I'm sorry you can't shoot more than 10 feet and hit what you aim at.  I'm not saying shoot at 100 yards with one but 20-30 yards is very doable.  If you miss you don't have a wounded deer you have a miss.

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## nell67

> I am not "upset". I simply see a bunch of contridiction and misinformation. 
> 
> We all have limitations we work around. For some it is eyesight. For that most of us use scopes rather than refusing to shoot. 
> 
> I have a bad back. I work within strict rifle weight limitations, as you do. I make my rifle/caliber choices inside those limitations.
> 
> I also use a shooting stick rather than pass up shots or not hunting at all.
> 
> I am having trouble understanding why there is adverse reaction to using optional equipment w/an adequite caliber rather than standing alone with a.410?
> http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#sho..._1-2-4_8-16-32


I am not adverse to going to a 20 gauge,It has been a long time since i have shot a shotgun,and the last one sat me on my ***(12 g),rifles,I am pretty darn good at hitting what I aim for.

I actually plan on purchasing a couple in the near future,and will be asking more questions and trying them out for size/comfort before putting my dollar on the table.

Klkak,that is an intersting little guy you have there,I will be checking with the dealer at the gun shop and see if he has one on hand that I can put a few rounds through!

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## klickitat

For people who have a hard time holding up a gun, it has less to do with the weight and more to do with weight distribution. Two guns with the same weight but one having a shorter barrel, the one with a shorter barrel will be easier to hold up for longer periods. This shows up excessively with children and people with small frames.

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## shiftyer1

How does the recoil compare in the youth sized guns to the full size?  I realize it's probably got more recoil but is it a little or quite a bit?

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## Old GI

Every shot I've ever taken at something moving or with a heartbeat, I couldn't feel the recoil at all.  I only feel recoil when I'm shooting stationary targets and think about it.  Until I had seven shoulder surgeries, and now have the account for that.

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## oldtrap59

I remember when my son first wanted to hunt deer.(youth season in Iowa. A shotgun state) All I had was my 12 ga 870 pump and a single shot 410.The 870 was a bit more then he could handle and the 410 wasn't legal for deer in Iowa but I had a friend that had a youth model 20 ga single shot. (don't remember what make) I do remember my son liked shooting it though and got his first deer with it. I've used the 410 over the years for rabbits but don't think I would use it for anything else. IMHO

Oldtrap

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## klickitat

*Winnie* "I have to agree with others, Nell. I've had a .410 single barrel full choke and it's really no more than a vermin gun. The range is pretty poor too. Have you tried a 16 bore? I had a little beaut. It was a side by side double barrel with a full and three quarter choke. Lovely balance and about the same weight as the .410."

Am I the only one who caught this? Maybe I am the only one on here willing to call BULL****.

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## Winnie

> *Winnie* "I have to agree with others, Nell. I've had a .410 single barrel full choke and it's really no more than a vermin gun. The range is pretty poor too. Have you tried a 16 bore? I had a little beaut. It was a side by side double barrel with a full and three quarter choke. Lovely balance and about the same weight as the .410."
> 
> Am I the only one who caught this? Maybe I am the only one on here willing to call BULL****.


Exactly what is it you're calling?  Please elaborate.

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## klickitat

She is having trouble holding a 20 g. and is looking at a .410 and you tell her to get something bigger than a 20 g.  and then try to tell everyone that a 16g. was almost the same weight as a .410. If you do not know what you are talking about then I suggest not answering. You are only spreading bad information. This comment here was one of the reasons I started the *REALLY?* thread.

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## Winnie

Ah I see. Well, you can believe it or not, I'm not bothered one way or the other. The 16 bore I had weighed little more then the .410 and was easier to manage because the balance was better.

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## klickitat

*Winnie* "Ah I see. Well, you can believe it or not, I'm not bothered one way or the other. The 16 bore I had weighed little more then the .410 and was easier to manage because the balance was better." It doesn't bother you because you do not have a clue. The 16g. is 300% bigger than the .410 and is about 20% behind the 12g.

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## Winnie

I say again, there was about an 8oz difference in weight, the 16bore being the heavier of the two. That to me is not a significant difference. I would not have suggested it had I not had personal experience.

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## klickitat

*Winnie* "I say again, there was about an 8oz difference in weight, the 16bore being the heavier of the two. That to me is not a significant difference. I would not have suggested it had I not had personal experience."
 There is more than 8 oz in one barrel let alone two and that does not include the frame or anything else. I done. It is not worth my time to even discuss this with you.

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## Winnie

> *Winnie* "I say again, there was about an 8oz difference in weight, the 16bore being the heavier of the two. That to me is not a significant difference. I would not have suggested it had I not had personal experience."
>  There is more than 8 oz in one barrel let alone two and that does not include the frame or anything else. I done. It is not worth my time to even discuss this with you.


Suit yourself.

Oh and to prove my point. Look up the weight of a Lincoln Jubilee 16 bore double Barrel= 6lbs4oz, Baikal Bolt action Single Barrel(the Gun I had) 6lbs.
In future, please do not call my character into question. When you obviously have not checked your facts.

PS I apologise profusely, Nell, for hijacking your thread.

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## klkak

> *Winnie* "I say again, there was about an 8oz difference in weight, the 16bore being the heavier of the two. That to me is not a significant difference. I would not have suggested it had I not had personal experience."
> There is more than 8 oz in one barrel let alone two and that does not include the frame or anything else. I done. It is not worth my time to even discuss this with you.


klickitat you need to back off! Messing with the women on this forum is something that is frowned upon.

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## klkak

> Suit yourself.
> 
> Oh and to prove my point. Look up the weight of a Lincoln Jubilee 16 bore double Barrel= 6lbs4oz, Baikal Bolt action Single Barrel(the Gun I had) 6lbs.
> In future, please do not call my character into question. When you obviously have not checked your facts.
> 
> PS I apologise profusely, Nell, for hijacking your thread.


Winnie I can identify with what you said. My grandsons single shot .410 weights more then my single shot 20.

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## klickitat

I wasn't messing with a woman, I was pointing out crap information. I pointing out that she has no idea what she is talking about when it comes to guns or even basic physics. Why is her need to save face more important than the woman who needed good information? Why would you value the person who is handing out crap more than the person who it is being given too?

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## Winnie

Read  my post #43 Klick, I am not handing out C##p. I have proved my point. You have not and are just being abusive now.

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## Rick

You might be pointing out information you believe is incorrect but you don't have to be an *** to do it. You're attitude needs a bit of an adjustment. Stop provoking people!

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## klickitat

I also have a single shot .22 that weighs in at over 30 pounds. You can find all kinds of obscure things to prove a point. I stand by my point that the information you gave in context to the question posed is still crap.

Now, I will digress and apologize to the sensitive folks on here.

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## klkak

klickitat, your words no longer carry any weight on this forum.

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## Winnie

I'm going to let things rest. Think what you will.
Nell, I hope you get the gun you're looking for. That's the most important thing! :Yes:

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## Rick

If you had any decency you would have simply asked her where her information came from instead of jumping down her throat. It's one thing to discuss and debate. Quite something else to ridicule and insult. And then you have the gall to insult further by making snide remarks about the sensitive people. If I were a betting man, I'd bet you won't be around much longer.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

The OP was in regards to a single shot and the weight of the gun relative to aiming the firearm. In regards to a single shot as posted by the OP. Ref. the .410, the chamber bore is much smaller than a larger shotgun. My HR .410 has a very thick chamber wall. Makes sense to me that in regards to single shot shotguns a .410 may weigh nearly the same as say a 12 gauge since the same reciever is used on both firearms. So it is absolutely not crap.

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## Ken

Just for comparison:

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> klickitat, your words no longer carry any weight on this forum.


Thanks, klkak....where I come from were just not so good with words! Rep coming your way!

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## aflineman

I personally would not use a .410 to take a deer in the course of my normal hunting. I just would not be comfortable with it. That said, I have seen plenty taken with one. Just go over to Greybeards Ourdoors and look in the Handi Shotgun forums and you can see many posts and photos from this past season. 
I would  prefer a .357mag or a .44 mag Rossi or Handi Rifle. The barrel can be cut back to 16" (as opposed to the 18" of a shotgun) to make then lighter. I have shot a few of the .357mag that were cut back to 16", and will be doing the same to mine soon. Recoil is easier than many a .410 that I have shot. 
Also, maybe try a pistol grip stock like the Survivor or the Varmint (ant least on the Handi).
What about a Handgun? Or maybe a pistol caliber carbine (lever action or Semi-auto)?
I do understand using what you are comfortable with though. The above ideas are just a suggestion.

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## klickitat

my words were addressed more to everyone who let the crap slide than it was to the ignorant. Weather or not my words hold weight with an idiot makes no difference to me.

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## Ken

> my words were addressed more to everyone who let the crap slide than it was to the ignorant. Weather or not my words hold weight with an idiot makes no difference to me.


There is one thing we demand around here. That's manners. I think you need to find some.

 :Ban:

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## Alaskan Survivalist

Klkak, Not taking sides but you don't speak for me.

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## Ken

*klickitat* 
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum. 
Banned 

Wow!  Did I do that?

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## Rick

You're good. What can I say?

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> *klickitat* 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum. 
> Banned 
> 
> Wow!  Did I do that?


You can't be serious?

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## Winnie

As I seem to have got Klick panties in a bunch, I'll try and straighten them out.
Read my original post carefully. I suggested to Nell to TRY a 16 bore becuase the one I had weighed only a bit more than my Baikal .410 Sometimes the balance of a Gun can make a big difference, it's not all necessarily about weight. I have provided you with sugestions to research the data for yourself. If you really can't be bothered to Google it I can always provide you with links. I have in no way lied or spouted c##p. Klick, you have consistently refuted my statement regardless of the fact I have provided evidence to back up my statement. Again I re-iterate I was making a suggestion based on personal experience. I see no need to "save face" but I will not tolerate being called a liar.

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## Ken

> You can't be serious?


I'm never serious.  Until it counts.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> You can't be serious?


 I hope he is. That guy has a problem. I'll only speak for myself, but I hope he's gone for good. I also hope he learns some manners.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> As I seem to have got Klick panties in a bunch, I'll try and straighten them out.
> Read my original post carefully. I suggested to Nell to TRY a 16 bore becuase the one I had weighed only a bit more than my Baikal .410 Sometimes the balance of a Gun can make a big difference, it's not all necessarily about weight. I have provided you with sugestions to research the data for yourself. If you really can't be bothered to Google it I can always provide you with links. I have in no way lied or spouted c##p. Klick, you have consistently refuted my statement regardless of the fact I have provided evidence to back up my statement. Again I re-iterate I was making a suggestion based on personal experience. I see no need to "save face" but I will not tolerate being called a liar.


 No need to explain yourself, Winnie. We can read. It appears that he could not.

 BTW...good job of putting him in his place, by showing him the facts! LOL

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## Rick

AS - Insulting forum members is a violation. He just came back from a few days ban to cool down and starts this all over again. If he wants to be insensate then he can do it somewhere else.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> AS - Insulting forum members is a violation. He just came back from a few days ban to cool down and starts this all over again. If he wants to be insensate then he can do it somewhere else.


I must have missed that. If he had been warned then it seems appropriate but I for one will miss him.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> AS - Insulting forum members is a violation. He just came back from a few days ban to cool down and starts this all over again. If he wants to be insensate then he can do it somewhere else.


 Tell the truth, Rick.....you were just trying to get him out of here, before the pack got a hold of him, and you had to clean up the mess! LOL

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## Rick

I never like banning a member. I usually try to give them the benefit of the doubt and every opportunity to get it straightened out prior to banning. But sometimes it's the only solution especially when any member is being disruptive to the forum and especially after they have received both verbal warnings and suspensions for like conduct. If other mods are online at the time then we usually bounce the situation off each other. If only one is online then there is very often a post mortem to gain input with regard to the situation. It's rarely just a ban and forget it.

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## Ken

I attended a post mortem once!  The doc asked me if I was going to be okay,  Then he turned around and saw me eating a Snickers Bar.

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## Rick

Did I tell you I worked in a funeral home in high school? Yeah, I know. I'm weird.

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## Ken

> Did I tell you I worked in a funeral home in high school? Yeah, I know. I'm weird.


Hey, people were dying to meet you back then!

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## Sarge47

> Did I tell you I worked in a funeral home in high school? Yeah, I know. I'm weird.


 I imagine you found it pretty easy to find a date, all the girls that came through couldn't say "no."  (and you think you're weird. :2: )

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## Ken

> I imagine you found it pretty easy to find a date, all the girls that came through couldn't say "no." (and you think you're weird.)


Sometimes, Sarge scares me.  Really, he does.

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## Sarge47

> Klkak,that is an intersting little guy you have there,I will be checking with the dealer at the gun shop and see if he has one on hand that I can put a few rounds through!


 Nell, I had one of those for my 1st shotgun & found them very easy to swing & shoot a running rabbit.  I loved it!  The short length makes it easy to swing.  If you need the stock to be a little longer and want a bit easier recoil go to a sporting goods store/dept. & buy a slip-on recoil pad.  Also, you can buy a recoil pad that bolts onto the butt of the Rossi directly from the company.   :Nod:

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## aflineman

Nell,
I wish you were a bit closer. I tend to accumulate the little single shots and could let you try a few different styles.

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## shiftyer1

Thats why I asked about the recoil,  if someone is looking for a certain gun due to physical limitations.

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## klkak

> my words were addressed more to everyone who let the crap slide than it was to the ignorant. Weather or not my words hold weight with an idiot makes no difference to me.


 :Bawling:  Along with all the other problems I have to deal with in my life, now I find out that I'm an idiot :Bawling:

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> Along with all the other problems I have to deal with in my life, now I find out that I'm an idiot


It happens to all of us sooner or later. At least now you know.

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## BENESSE

Knowledge is power!

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## Ken

> Along with all the other problems I have to deal with in my life, now I find out that I'm an idiot


Kevin, Kevin, Kevin.  *shakes head*  Read all those old PMs I sent you.  You should have known that already!

BTW - I'm not flexible enough to put my head where you told me it was about 5 PMs back...........

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## Rick

Kevin, there are some possible bright spots to what would appear to be a negative. Perhaps you are an idiot savant and the savant just hasn't blossomed yet. That's what I tell folks about me. And it could certainly have been worse. You could have discovered that you are an ignoramus, a muttonhead, a cretin or a twit. I don't think there are any bright spots to being any of those.

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## Ken

> You could have discovered that you are a ignoramus, a muttonhead, a cretin or a twit. I don't think there are any bright spots to being any of those.



That's exactly what I said when I called him all of those names.

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## oldtrap59

I've been away for a couple of weeks and apparently have missed some action here. Always thought Klick was an ok guy and usually enjoyed his posts like the one I saw this morning on my return(Really). I understand that control is something that needs to be kept on a forum like this but I also will miss Klick. 

Just a note for Klkak. I learned years ago at an early age just how dumb I was and probably still am via a wonderful guy that was my DI at Fort Benning back in the day. MAN. That guy had alot of synonyms for dumb. :>)

Oldtrap

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## kyratshooter

> Along with all the other problems I have to deal with in my life, now I find out that I'm an idiot



Apparently you have never been married.  If you had you would have already been informed of this information.  If was one of the early enlightenments of my married life.

If I ever go off the deep end and start spouting wild crap send Rick down to KY to slap me around a bit before you ban me, I have little other contact with the outside world.

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## BENESSE

> If I ever go off the deep end and start spouting wild crap send Rick down to KY to slap me around a bit before you ban me, I have little other contact with the outside world.


We're here for you Kyrat. The women folk would be more than happy to set you straight. No need to send Rick...the girls can do it remotely. You won't know what hit you, ain't that right girls?

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## Rick

I ain't walkin' that far for nobody. Not even me.

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## klkak

> Apparently you have never been married.  If you had you would have already been informed of this information.  If was one of the early enlightenments of my married life.


I've been married for 27 years to the same woman thats why I said "all the other problems in my life".

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## crashdive123

> I've been married for 27 years to the same woman thats why I said "all the other problems in my life".


You are sooooooooooo going to get smacked if Deb reads this.

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## Camp10

> I've been married for 27 years to the same woman thats why I said "all the other problems in my life".


That just means she's been saving the "and your an idiot" for a very special kind of screw up!  Lol.

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## Rick

I've got my popcorn and soda. Someone call her over to the screen so she can read it. This is gonna be soooooo bad.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Nell, Here ya go! I think she was 3 at the time...of course it rested on daddies shoulder. HR .410

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## randyt

Cowboy, that's a awesome family photo!!!

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Here she is at 4! Thanks Randy!

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## randyt

that's what memories are made of, awesome

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

10 ft. stand in heavy cover. I have had deer almost in my lap here and could easily take one in this situation with the same .410 pictured above.



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## Camp10

Great pics Cowboy!  I have the same H&R and it was perfect for the boys when they were little.   Oh, I cant help feeling so very bad for that cute little girl's first boyfriend though! :jango:

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> Great pics Cowboy!  I have the same H&R and it was perfect for the boys when they were little.   Oh, I cant help feeling so very bad for that cute little girl's first boyfriend though!


I think it will have something to do with a walk around the pasture. I will explain myself real clear to the little guy....

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## Camp10

> I think it will have something to do with a walk around the pasture. I will explain myself real clear to the little guy....


My FIL thought cleaning his shotgun would work with me...I pointed out he was trying to put a spring in backwards and we've been best friends ever since!

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## kyratshooter

My daughter always claimed that her boyfriends were not worried about the guns I owned.

They were worried about the guns SHE owned.

We were on the big farm then and many of her "first dates" involved a walk around the farm busting tin cans with a .22.

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## mccaw69

I'm a dedicated single shot shooter,my gun of choice being a H&R single shot 12 ga.I use it by choice for everything I hunt,from Deer to rabbits,and everything in between.Single shot like your Rossi are very dependable,and will last a lifetime.Your combo gun will make you a nice hunting /survival fire arm.Can you use the 410 to deer hunt with?Here in Ky. we can't use anthing smaller than a 20 guage for deer.Of course in a survival sitiation,laws go out the window,and it would't matter.How about some pics of the new weapon,here's my old standby...Picture 215.jpgPicture 216.jpgPicture 214.jpg

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> I'm a dedicated single shot shooter,my gun of choice being a H&R single shot 12 ga.I use it by choice for everything I hunt,from Deer to rabbits,and everything in between.Single shot like your Rossi are very dependable,and will last a lifetime.Your combo gun will make you a nice hunting /survival fire arm.Can you use the 410 to deer hunt with?Here in Ky. we can't use anthing smaller than a 20 guage for deer.Of course in a survival sitiation,laws go out the window,and it would't matter.How about some pics of the new weapon,here's my old standby...Picture 215.jpgPicture 216.jpgPicture 214.jpg


I use the same shell pcket on the stock of mine...loading is fast! I miss the old 36" barrel 12 ga. Savage Single...We called him "Jed" and he could reach out and touch some ducks! The action...receiver,wore out as me and my buddy traded it back and forth! Singles are nice to have around!

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## mccaw69

I love the old shotshell holder,and if i'm doing some serious hunting where reloading quickly is needed,I'll palm an extra round in my left hand whild i'm cupping the fore grip,so when i fire i already have the round ready to load when i break it open.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> I love the old shotshell holder,and if i'm doing some serious hunting where reloading quickly is needed,I'll palm an extra round in my left hand whild i'm cupping the fore grip,so when i fire i already have the round ready to load when i break it open.


I can relate to that! That is the plan when we shoot the wood duck flyby!

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## Alaskan Survivalist

I carry my 410 in a chest rig. It can be worn over or under coat which is a nice feature in foul weather.

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Extra ammo is carried under a velcro flap. This is a universal rig that fits all my handguns well and carries weight comfortably and out of the way of pack. Easy to get in and out of. I highly recomend it. Heres thier website if interested. Made in Alaska for Alaskan conditions.
http://www.alaskasportsmanproducts.com/

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## mccaw69

That is a sweet rig! Got any pics of it unholstered?Would love to see...... :Turned:

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> That is a sweet rig! Got any pics of it unholstered?Would love to see......


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I have a couple of them. It's a TC Encore and can be configured as a rifle also. Built to a quality standard that allows all parts to be exchanged between different firearms.

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## nell67

> I'm a dedicated single shot shooter,my gun of choice being a H&R single shot 12 ga.I use it by choice for everything I hunt,from Deer to rabbits,and everything in between.Single shot like your Rossi are very dependable,and will last a lifetime.Your combo gun will make you a nice hunting /survival fire arm.Can you use the 410 to deer hunt with?Here in Ky. we can't use anthing smaller than a 20 guage for deer.Of course in a survival sitiation,laws go out the window,and it would't matter.How about some pics of the new weapon,here's my old standby...Picture 215.jpgPicture 216.jpgPicture 214.jpg


mccaw,I will post some as soon as I get it out of layaway,LOL didn't have all the money on me,and sisn't want it to find another home,come on pay day!

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## hunter63

Well, I glad we got all that settled.
Funny how those single shots seem to cause so much trouble...............
Congrats, Nell.

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## nell67

So I went and picked up the gun today,and I noticed while filling out the paper work,that the gun he brought up was NOT the gun that I had previously picked out.

THe one I had picked out had a synthetic stock,this one is WOOD! also,the one I picked out was a .410,with a .22 interchangeable barrel this one is a 20 gauge with the .22 barrel,I mentioned this at the shop,but was told I didn't know what I was talking about.

So I get home and the amish neighbor comes over as I am unloading the gun from the truck,and I pull THE barrel out and hand it to him,he quickly looks at the lump,and said I thought it ws supposed to be a .410,I just walked away....I KNOW I am gonna hear about it later.

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## klkak

Nell, you will find the 20g to be a better round for hunting. It has a much better selection of slug for hunting big game and a bigger shot pattern for hunting birds.

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## nell67

> Nell, you will find the 20g to be a better round for hunting. It has a much better selection of slug for hunting big game and a bigger shot pattern for hunting birds.


I am gonna keep it,but I reckon I need to exchange all the ammo I bought up for the .410,or buy the barrel for this one,I understand it will take 4 different gauge barrels on this one stock.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Sounds like it was meant to be.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

Nell, if you desire, you can get a gage reducer to shoot .410 as well as other calibers from the 20 gage. Look at this web site and see how many calibers you can shoot from that 20 gage. www.mcace.com

I usually use the "Inserts," rather than the adaptors, but I do have many of both and use depending on the situation or application. The .410 actually patterns well from a 20 gage. The rifle calibers also shoot well and accurate from the 20 gage.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> Nell, if you desire, you can get a gage reducer to shoot .410 as well as other calibers from the 20 gage. Look at this web site and see how many calibers you can shoot from that 20 gage. www.mcace.com
> 
> I usually use the "Inserts," rather than the adaptors, but I do have many of both and use depending on the situation or application. The .410 actually patterns well from a 20 gage. The rifle calibers also shoot well and accurate from the 20 gage.


Good point and I don't think the inserts are made for the .410.

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## EdD270

The interchangable barrels are a big plus. I recommend you get the 20-ga. model rather than the .410. 20 ga ammo is available in much greater variety and is cheaper than .410 to boot. The 20-ga is also a much more reliable choice to use on all kinds of game from upland birds to turkey and waterfowl and for small and large game from squirrels and rabbits up to deer and elk and bear.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

CS: they are available for the .410 (check out the site), just in fewer calibers, the 20 gage allows for a greater range of actual rifle calibers in the inserts and conversions.

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## Rick

You forgot the link.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> You forgot the link.


The link is a few posts up Rick, Looks like a good one too. Now if I can determine if they will work in my HR.

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## Rick

Okay, sorry. I thought he was referencing a new site.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> Nell, if you desire, you can get a gage reducer to shoot .410 as well as other calibers from the 20 gage. Look at this web site and see how many calibers you can shoot from that 20 gage. www.mcace.com
> 
> I usually use the "Inserts," rather than the adaptors, but I do have many of both and use depending on the situation or application. The .410 actually patterns well from a 20 gage. The rifle calibers also shoot well and accurate from the 20 gage.


OGL,
What would you recommend for my HR .410 to fire .22 LR? I was eyeing the 18" insert I could not make head or tails of offset plug? Looking at your link.

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## EdD270

I have to agree that the .410 is minimally adequate for deer. However, if your health prevents you from using anything else, I suggest you go with the slug rather than buckshot, and the heavier slug you can find, the better. It should be good for deer out to 75-100 yards, just like a handgun, if you can hit what you aim at, and wait for a standing broadside shot. A modified choke will give better accuracy with slugs than a full choke. 
A deer's vital area is about 8" so get an 8" paperplate and mark a spot in it's middle to aim at. Any range you can hit that, with no misses at all, from a variety of field positions is in range for deer.
Try to get a 20 ga. if you can, it's so much better for many reasons and purposes.

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## nell67

I ended up with the .410/.22 when I went back to the dealer to see if he could get the other 2 availabel barrels for this stock,and found out that the paired set he gave me were actually on layaway by another customer.....he is looking into pricing on the other barrels,but I have not heard back from him.

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## MidWestMat

Not to worry Nell67, that .410 is perfectly viable for deer to 50 yards with slugs as well as self defense with the Buckshot to about 25.  The .22 barrel makes it great for small game, all the extra barrels get to be a lot to keep track of.  I have a Rossi .410/.22 for my daughter, an HR 20/.243 for my son, and an HR 12/30-30 for myself.  I love singles!   :Wink:

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