# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > General Homesteading >  Tractors for the Homestead.

## hunter63

So as to not Hijack an on going thread, the subject of ATVs/tractors came up.

You do not need a tractor, you do not need a big tractor, (min class 1, 30 hp is about a good starting point),....you do not need a new tractor.........careful on used, and they ARE used....so pay now....or later.

But after fooling around doing a lot of homesteading work by hand, or with a ATV as a tractor...they sure are nice.....worth every penny...kinda like when you finally get one it's a head slap, "What the heck was a matter with me..." should have done this years ago."

People pay SSSS for new phones, tablits, computers, software, apps, media......but they won't haul a load of feed to the hen house.

I used an ATV for 10+ years as a mower, both keeping an ever expanding "yard" and trails open.....and pretty much beat up both the machine and the mower.
Attachments for ATV need their own power so have their own motor, and are more expensive to buy and keep running....Tractor have a PTO (power take off) that powers the attachments if necessary.

We are talking mowing grass, weeds, brush over your head, as well as 'yard' mowing.......(keeping it mowed around your buildings keep help keep bugs and other varmints under control.

Tractor with bucket can mow, plow, disc, drag yard for landscaping (did dragging with a pallet/cement block behind ATV)....bucket for moving dirt, rocks, brush, wood,..... and with forks, whole trees, hay bales, and anything you meed to move around with out having to lift and carry....You will find a new use everyday.

Also useful for snow removal, and drive way grading (back blade)... post holes, (post hole digger)
.
Why so expensive? 
I wanted an old Ford 2-9n or even better 8 n...$2k to 5K.....they look so cool and a lot of people claim they can do anything with them......Might be true.

BUT as an older guy that I talked to at a antique show related to me....he had several old Fords there on display and a couple for sale, "What are you gonna do with it?....."I want to mow, and maybe get a bucket for moving stuff around...."

So he says, "I use a Kubota for work around the farm, and play with the old tractors.....They always break down when you need to get something done."

So, you can kid your self, use all the goats, hand mowing, do the hand work.....but remember our fore-fathers had 10-15 kids for that labor, kinda hard to do it all your self......and it gets tougher, the older you get....

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## randyt

I have a couple allis chalmers b tractors that I use. One of them is for parts. When I was a kid we used a horses for misc farm work.

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## Wildthang

The thing about a tractor is that they are very low geared, they do not have flimsy suspensions, and they do no break under huge loads. If you have a tractor in good condition, it will outlast 10 pickup trucks, and 50 ATV's all the while doing things that would rip out the gears of most vehicles. Just see how many old tractors are still around and still running good, and some of them are nearing 100 years old and still being used on farms.
A tractor can also be used for an emergency vehicle because they will go where most trucks and ATV's can only dream about. So if you get 2 feet of snow, and your truck gets stuck, you can normalle get where you want to go on a tractor in case of a family emergency!
A good tractor will prevent you from tearing up other vehicles which adds to their value greatly!

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## welderguy

I used to have an old cub cadet riding mower that had a box blade attachment and a plow attachment , that thing was a beast did eveything i needed and wated it to do just took a lot longer.. never used an ATV for that type of jobs dont seem to me they would hold up very well under that kind of use.

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## randyt

Most of the tractors I've used had steel lugged wheels. Those are the best, no flat tires or slipping wheels. My brother still has a farmall-12 with steel wheels.

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## brad_mccarty1967

I've got a '46 2N Ford, and a '40 9N Ford, probably enough parts laying around to put most of a third one together.  Either of these tractors would take care of all your needs on a small homestead nicely.  I have an attachment for everything from gardening, to road maintenance.  Even have a loader, which I haven't installed yet.  Probably have less than $3000 invested in all of it, just have to look around, and be willing to do some restoration.  These old tractors are as dependable as anything, but do require extra maintenance. A drawback to the N series fords is the PTO.  When you push in the clutch, the pto drive stops too.  Like anything else though, once you are used to it, it's not a big issue.

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## hunter63

> I've got a '46 2N Ford, and a '40 9N Ford, probably enough parts laying around to put most of a third one together.  Either of these tractors would take care of all your needs on a small homestead nicely.  I have an attachment for everything from gardening, to road maintenance.  Even have a loader, which I haven't installed yet.  Probably have less than $3000 invested in all of it, just have to look around, and be willing to do some restoration.  These old tractors are as dependable as anything, but do require extra maintenance. A drawback to the N series fords is the PTO.  When you push in the clutch, the pto drive stops too.  Like anything else though, once you are used to it, it's not a big issue.


So which one is on your avatar....the '46, 0r '40.
LOL, I like the _extra maintenance_ part...I have three friends that have them, or several and all are in a continuous stage of repair......

They are cool, .....but I will disagree with you, that they are just are NOT as dependable as a new one.

This thread is for the guys that have no clue what to look for, how to work on it and what it will do......and will read your advice and figure that "Old ford $3k" I'm good.....several times....

Now that said....if you don't have any bucks, are good around machinery, have a lifetimes worth of spare parts.....Be my guest, you will look cool and be able to brag about it.

If you have $15 to $45 K and want to get something done, just spend the money and you are good.

If not, your still cool.

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## welderguy

> So which one is on your avatar....the '46, 0r '40.
> LOL, I like the _extra maintenance_ part...I have three friends that have them, or several and all are in a continuous stage of repair......
> 
> They are cool, .....but I will disagree with you, that they are just are NOT as dependable as a new one.
> 
> This thread is for the guys that have no clue what to look for, how to work on it and what it will do......and will read your advice and figure that "Old ford $3k" I'm good.....several times....
> 
> Now that said....if you don't have any bucks, are good around machinery, have a lifetimes worth of spare parts.....Be my guest, you will look cool and be able to brag about it.
> 
> ...


 I got a sears riding mower with a box blade , Can i be COOL TOO!

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## hunter63

> I got a sears riding mower with a box blade , Can i be COOL TOO!


LOL, yes you can, bibs, straw hat, and some sweet tea........"She thinks my tractors sexey....."

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## tjwilhelm

I have a 1951 Farmall "M."  It's a sweet machine, and is not a maintenance problem.  Still ticking, and still runs smooth and nice.

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## Power Giant

1977 Thiokol Hydromaster here. 200hp turbo diesel, hydrostatic drive. It gets used alot in winter, sits most of the summer. It just started to nickel and dime me this year. The Allis Chalmers engine is the best part of machine.

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## brad_mccarty1967

> So which one is on your avatar....the '46, 0r '40.
> LOL, I like the _extra maintenance_ part...I have three friends that have them, or several and all are in a continuous stage of repair......
> 
> They are cool, .....but I will disagree with you, that they are just are NOT as dependable as a new one.
> 
> This thread is for the guys that have no clue what to look for, how to work on it and what it will do......and will read your advice and figure that "Old ford $3k" I'm good.....several times....
> 
> Now that said....if you don't have any bucks, are good around machinery, have a lifetimes worth of spare parts.....Be my guest, you will look cool and be able to brag about it.
> 
> ...


   Neither, the tractor on my avatar is more what I think we all may need, if things in the world keep going the way they are.  You are absolutely correct, those old Fords aren't as dependable as a shiny new tractor, on the same note, I didn't say they were.  I said they are as dependable as anything......just a generic statement really, meaning they are generally as dependable, as their owner is smart.  You can't jimmy-rig every repair you do and expect it to run forever, nor can you fix just part of a problem, and expect that to be good enough.  Tear em down completely, and fix whats wrong.  Parts are so cheap for the N series tractor, there's no reason not to.  As you said, many don't have the time to deal with broken tractors, for some I guess that would be a pretty good reason to go buy a new one.  For me, the better option was to buy a second Ford to use, while I did the repairs on the first one.  That's underway as we speak.  Once it's finished, I'll do the other one the same.  Both will be repainted as I reassemble.  That being said, I expect to have 2 tractors that give me very little trouble.  And if I do need to work on one, there's another to use.  Parts are cheap and readily available.  In fact, the John Deeres on this farm are the bigger pain to maintain.  There have been many winter days these little Fords did things they were never designed to handle, because none of the newer bigger equipment would start. (more than once they've had to drag the bigger ones out of the mud) So, 2 tractors and a barn full of implements for 4 or 5 thousand, or a new tractor for 20.000.  Hands down I'll take the old ones every time.  The new tractors are throw away tractors.  They may run for several years with no problems, but once the problems start, it soon becomes cheaper to buy another new one.  Common Joe has no chance of repairing them, though  $90 an hour plus will take care of it.  And I'll all but promise you your not gonna make it the 70+ years, either of my tractors did, nor will anyone even be considering fixing them at that point.  Wouldn't surprise me if mine were restored another time or two long after I'm gone.   It's really just a personal taste.  I possibly live a little differently than some of you do here.  I produce and put up a large part of what my family of 4 consumes in a year.  That's produce and meat.  I also have about 2 acres of yard to mow, not to mention the farm bush hogging.   I garden 1/4 acre, plus a small truck patch. (on the side I produce 18,000 head of market hogs for another entity)   My wife and I are trying dedicate ourselves to practical living, homesteading, greener living, and self sufficiency.  I can't imagine living as we do with anything other than the tractors I have.  Might surprise you to know I'm actually International Harvestor guy, my Grandfather worked at the assembly plant here in Illinois in the 40's.  I chose these old Fords, because I know how dependable they can be.  If I were going to buy a new one, I think I'd go with the New Holland Boomer.  A modern version of the 8N with front assist, and all the bells of whistles.  Will I do it, no.  I'll make time to keep part of history alive,  and I can do it several more times for the money that Boomer would cost me.

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## brad_mccarty1967

P.S.  What really makes me cool, using these old tractors , is all the money I still have to blow on guns!

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## hunter63

I don't have a problem with your approach in the least......came close to buying a '50 8n with Ferguson 2 speed tranny.....still might if the deal shows up.

I guess my point was simply to bring up the point that one should consider what they want in a tractor ..."as a tool"...from the get go, and weight the pro/cons before spending your money.

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## brad_mccarty1967

That's cool Hunter, I was just funnin' with you anyway.  I'm new here, not out to offend anyone.  You're absolutely correct, an antique tractor is not the thing for many.  Takes a good working mechanical knowledge of tractors to own them, and yes, time to maintain them.  We use more modern, and way larger equipment, for the actual farming  here.  You ever get a N Ford tractor and need parts let me know, I should be picking up 5 more soon.  Oh, did I mention I deal in tractor parts, and restoration?   :Smile:

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## hunter63

> That's cool Hunter, I was just funnin' with you anyway.  I'm new here, not out to offend anyone.  You're absolutely correct, an antique tractor is not the thing for many.  Takes a good working mechanical knowledge of tractors to own them, and yes, time to maintain them.  We use more modern, and way larger equipment, for the actual farming  here.  You ever get a N Ford tractor and need parts let me know, I should be picking up 5 more soon.  Oh, did I mention I deal in tractor parts, and restoration?


Should have guessed,.......It's all good.

Model A's are cool as well, but if you need to drive to work everyday?????/
If they were that good they would still be made.

You see, before I became a prepper/survivalist(?), I was a homesteader(?) Retired now, so not sure where that puts me........and the old vs new tractor debate raged and will rage for ever.

Seemed to be a pattern, noob asked homestead question, gray beard says Ford N series....best tractor in the world, oh by the way, happened to have one a a good price.........
"....Oh yeah there in the PTO thing, can't mow backwards, and yeah hydraulics.....But, Hey your grandfather didn't need all the namby, pamby stuff....You want to look cool, Right? be a part of history, Right"

So, noob plunks down his bucks, and putts with it for a year or two....then spends the bucks for a new or good used later model tractor so he can get some work done.
Now he can perpetuate the myth on antique tractors...as he will never admit to be wrong....LOL

So for my needs, a new 32HP diesel 4 wheel drive, bucket and goodies, kept the truck 3 more years, and figured it in the budget.
Best move I could have made.
That's my story and I sticking to it.

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## brad_mccarty1967

Hunter, I hear ya.  At least for the time being, we all have some rights left, and can ride the tractor & live the lifestyle we choose.  We're all here talking tractors, survival, homesteading...........makes us all a little cooler than the rest anyway in my book.  See ya around.

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## hunter63

Rodger that.

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## bacpacker

Hey guys. New to the forum, but this thread is right up my alley. When I was growing up one papaw, uncle, and step dad all used JD A & B models. As time went on, they all decided to upgrade and went to Duetz tractors. I ended up with my dads 3006. It's a early 70 model and still works pretty well. I did have to put in a new clutch, pressure plate, & throw out bearing. I use in around our place to work up the garden, and bush hog mainly, but it will do most any thing I need it to. The biggest drawbacks to it are the lack of power steering, which I can live with, and the lack of a front end loader which is a much bigger issue. 

I also had been using a lawn tractor which kept breaking down to the point I decided it wasn't worth buying the parts for any longer and having it down all the time. I ended up buying a small Kubota to mow the yard with and keep up around the garden and chicken coop. It's also great to haul fertilizer, water, produce, feed, etc. While I would love to have an old JD, or a Farmall cub like my other papaw did, I just don't have the time to keep up the repairs they need and do the actual work I need done. 

I'm looking forward to seeing where the thread goes.

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## hunter63

That was kinda my point......
You are trying to prep to grow your own food, work your land, move what ever around, get that BOV 4X4, so make your work wheels part of that plan.

Mowing on a hill side
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As I get older, I'm finding I'm liking hydraulics more and more....even if its chaining up a wrong leaning tree that wants to land on the shed, and no one around to 'hold the rope".........forks on the bucket, will move a whole brush pile in one trip...and bring a round bale back....then haul to be split...to the wood pile...
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Moving snow....

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Mowing the river bank means backing up the mower, at which time all sorts of mayhem ensues.........Then a little patrol the primiter of AO

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Yes, I like my tractor.....and I like antiques as well.......mostly to play with.

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## Solar Geek

Thanks to all of you for the posts. We are in the midst of a decision making time (about 1.5 years away from really needing the tractor). But my DH wants to use it to be warm when plowing our driveway in winter. Seems like any kind of cab really adds to the $$. We are the type who just don't want to futz (old Milwaukee word) with fixing up a tractor when so many other homesteading issues are and will be keeping us happy, busy, and tired. But costs are important too. Need to balance both.

So keep the comment coming; we are all reading them and learning. Hunter63 many thanks for starting this thread.

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## crashdive123

> Thanks to all of you for the posts. We are in the midst of a decision making time (about 1.5 years away from really needing the tractor). But my DH wants to use it to be warm when plowing our driveway in winter. Seems like any kind of cab really adds to the $$. We are the type who just don't want to futz (old Milwaukee word) with fixing up a tractor when so many other homesteading issues are and will be keeping us happy, busy, and tired. But costs are important too. Need to balance both.
> 
> So keep the comment coming; we are all reading them and learning. Hunter63 many thanks for starting this thread.


The best way for him to keep warm when plowing the driveway is to ensure that his wife has a keen interest and passion for using the tractor. :Whistling:

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## Dennis

I got a JD 1070 4 wheel drive with a small diesel. The back hoe is frame mount and comes off so I can put the 3 point on. 

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## hunter63

> I got a JD 1070 4 wheel drive with a small diesel. The back hoe is frame mount and comes off so I can put the 3 point on. 
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Now that is going first class......congrats, man you are gonna love it!
You will find new things everyday to use it for.

It still kills me that a lot of people , mostly not here on this forum, which I consider way more intelligent than say 98% of the population, that buy or lease new verticals...or technology.....and expect it to work flawlessly for years.....Then cheap out when it come to tools needed to "get'er done".

I too went thru the "more time than money" (which is really not true....just don't have the money) to find a way to get some work done...so always looked for the cheapest way "at the time" get from here to there.

I looked for good deals on the old tractors, and am confident in my mechanical skills that I can make most anything run....older IS easier, you don't need a $500 buck "module"....but maybe a nail file, and sand paper to get back going....

That said, the cheapest may not be the best deal.....in the long run.

Kinda funny as a part time homesteader,...... have neighbors down the road....that have retired out of the city, as well......hobby farmed with a long list of inheriated, old, auctions stuff equiptment.....for years.....would give me a bad time on my new equiptment........... His girlfriend (of 35+ years)....would chide him,...."Bob, just shut up, you are just leloius....that is a fine machine, you should pony up.... ."

As the gentleman became older, the lady started, having to do a lot more of the work......Just went out and ordered a new mid sized tractor for herself.

She explained that it was her money, now her job....and still wanted to do lunch with her lady friends.....WAS NOT gonna work on tractors....
End of story.....It only cost a few bucks more to go first class.

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## hunter63

> Thanks to all of you for the posts. We are in the midst of a decision making time (about 1.5 years away from really needing the tractor). But my DH wants to use it to be warm when plowing our driveway in winter. Seems like any kind of cab really adds to the $$. We are the type who just don't want to futz (old Milwaukee word) with fixing up a tractor when so many other homesteading issues are and will be keeping us happy, busy, and tired. But costs are important too. Need to balance both.
> 
> So keep the comment coming; we are all reading them and learning. Hunter63 many thanks for starting this thread.


Friend and neighbor (at The Place) from suburb of Milwaukee, has been telling me of his JD set up to plow....and really rubs it in that he has a cab.......But it's still in Milwaukee!....Doesn't want to pay couple of hundred bucks to haul it to his pole bare at his "Place".....
Or so he says....LOL he is kinda competitive.

Haven't seen it yet, been a couple of years, so don't really know if it's real or not, or most likely afraid to park and leave it (city thinking).........if he had his way he would have put up a stockade around his 20+ acres.

That said, I will 100% agree with him that if a cab is important...get it that way from the factory...lot less screwing around.

Like the sayings go"pic's or it didn't happen.....gear that's not with you is of no help.

PS SG, we use "putz" a lot but have heard "futz".....futz being the lesser of the two....
Meaning: mess with......
Buy the tractor,... ain't getting any cheaper...and while you are beating your self up for spending the money........You will be getting stuff done.

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## Power Giant

> Thanks to all of you for the posts. We are in the midst of a decision making time (about 1.5 years away from really needing the tractor). But my DH wants to use it to be warm when plowing our driveway in winter. Seems like any kind of cab really adds to the $$. We are the type who just don't want to futz (old Milwaukee word) with fixing up a tractor when so many other homesteading issues are and will be keeping us happy, busy, and tired. But costs are important too. Need to balance both.
> 
> So keep the comment coming; we are all reading them and learning. Hunter63 many thanks for starting this thread.


Agree 100% on the enclosed cab. I stay toasty and warm in mine while plowing snow. Now, I couldn't imagine plowing without a cab- it would be pretty miserable.

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## brad_mccarty1967

Ok, this is to everyone but Hunter. ( don't want him to think I'm pickin' at him)  I don't see any photo evidence above that he can do anything I can't do on my old ford. Including mow in reverse.  I'm just sayin'.  Lets keep that between us, what he don't know won't hurt him.

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## hunter63

> Ok, this is to everyone but Hunter. ( don't want him to think I'm pickin' at him)  I don't see any photo evidence above that he can do anything I can't do on my old ford. Including mow in reverse.  I'm just sayin'.  Lets keep that between us, what he don't know won't hurt him.


LOL, well I'd rather mow the river bank "In reverse", tractor still on solid ground and at a constant PTO speed...but yeah that's just me.

Still might buy a 9n to park in front of the cabin.....Good yard ornament, look like a Terry redlin print.........

Got two friends that have them now (for sale)......parked behing the newer JD in the shed.

On my way to "The Place" used to drive by an 8n parked along the way (red and cream).....was there back in 2007-8....just about the time that they were getting $3K....was kinda "sweaty"....Then saw it on eBay....with a fresh brushed paint job. (gray).

Gone now, always wondered if it went over the $3k price of the "Buy it Now"

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## brad_mccarty1967

LOL, I seriously doubt they got the $3000.  Most of them can be had for $1000-$1500 in these parts.  A very nice one might bring $2500.  I generally pick them up for $500 or less (non running), depending on the price of scrap iron.  One of those things, worth more dead than alive.  I'm glad you guys like these cushy new machines.  Keeps me in business.  Also, anything I can't mow on an "N" tractor on this place, gets fixed.  229915_3259318048087_1790066375_n.jpg

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## rebel

Good post.  I've got a MF with loader.  It's a late '70's Japanese tractor that's gone out of business.  Getting parts would be a problem.   I don't use it much.  Every time I think about selling it, I use it.  I really like the Japanese tractors.  They are dependable and fuel efficient.

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## hunter63

Interesting enough there are quite a few "gray market tractors" imported from China, India, and other countries.
These were built for use in the home land, then brought back, rebuilt with different tin (out side body work), and them sold as "new" here.

This way a lot of "new tractor import duties are avoided.

Chrysler did the same thing here in Kenosha, WI....leasing new Dodge pick up-trucks, for 2 years and a very low cost to employees......Plant closed here after 110 years of auto manufacting.

So when confronted with a good deal on a off brand imported tractor, look it over, evidence will include painted over rust in joints between engine and transaxle, wear on pedals, foot resting surfaces etc. etc..

Also note most small tractors (cat #1) mostly all are built over seas, although some may be partially assembled here.....so as to advertised as "made in USA).
I don't believe any smaller tractors are completely manufactured in the USA.

As far as that goes..... a lot of the bigger tractors, Case/New Holland have castings imported fro China...the shut down the case foundry in Racine, WI........I worked in the plant and saw the boxed up casting for machining.
Example is the smaller John Deer and Mahindra....share 60% of the same parts, and are sold in JD dealerships.
(can tell you stories if the "world market manufacturing, these days...LOL)

The good news is that most all imported tractors share engines 3 cylinder turbo/ non turbocharged Mitsubishi or Yammer diesel engines and trans-axles seems to be the most popular.....

I confirmed this by looking at various parts that came in Mitsubishi packaging, and finding a cross reference in the NAPA parts book as fuel and oil filters are crossed referanced in their book.

So pick one that has a dealer support, or at least on that is sold by a dealer in your area.

As quite a few people on our road of small cabins etc....have acquired these, are are actually use on trail rides rather than ATV,/UTV....is kinda like a geriatric group of a biker clubs on trail rides....LOL but with the ability to pick up a dead tree across the trail and just push it aside.

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## Oddmott

Awesome thread and timely for me. My father has a 70s International 2wd with loader. It's pretty useful for just about all our needs, but a little too large when trying to get around in tighter bush paths or smaller gardens and plots.

Was considering one of the smaller do-it-all tractors, but couldn't figure out kubota from JD from Linhai from XYZ. If they're all being manufactured overseas and all sharing many integral parts, than it would seem that each one is as much a crap-shoot as the rest.

For a short time I'd considered just going back to an old small MF35... but a loader without power steering is no fun. lol

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## hunter63

Lots of mid sized tractors use Mitsubishi motors and running gear.....difference is don't ask for a Kubota oil filter for $8 bucks....NAPA equivalent $2.50.

Names don't mean much other than the outside tin and dealer support.

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## tacmedic

I have been thinking about getting a Mahindra as I have read some good things about them various places, and the price is pretty decent.  Wondering if anyone has personal experience with them?

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## hunter63

So far have had good luck with mine....

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