# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  Firestarting Help!

## Zack

I learned a couple of things on a recent primitive overnight camping trip.  The first was that I need help making fires.  I've mastered the art of one match fires and I'm ready to move on to more primitive methods.  I bought a ferro rod on ebay, I was excited to use it, and decided that this would be a good opportunity to do so.  I bird-nested some jute twine, wiped some pine sap into the wad of fluff, and used the back of my knife to spark the ferro rod.  I got a shower of sparks into the bundle, but it didn't go.  I tried, and tried, and tried.  Nothing.  Does anybody have anybody advice?

Another thing I need help with is natural tinder selection.  I think I found some fatwood, but I'm not sure.  Does anybody have ant advice for finding it, as well as other natural tinder?

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## crashdive123

Take a look through the videos listed in this thread.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rs-And-Tinders

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## ElevenBravo

Mmmm.... Zack... I share your pain.

I tried for 2 hours to get a fire started in a light rain... to all fail.  I was running a spark rod and no brought from home tinder.

Spark a dry cotton ball, it goes up right away and burns just long enough to get small kindling started.

Remember the rule of wood:


Kindling:
Thick as pencil lead
Thick as pencil
Thick as thumb

Firewood:
Thick as your wrist
Thick as your calve

If you get it going strong, thick as your quad


If you can find fatwood, great!  Take a decent knife and SHAVE it into a big bundle, spark it a few times, it "should" catch. Ive done it at home, Im sure Ill fail in the field!  HA HA!


I had planned on doing a video on this subject. (kindling, etc... etc...)

Ive been in the military for almost 2 decades, Infantry...  Been outdoors a LOT.  Nothing humbles an ego than to fail at getting a fire started, most people have no idea it is an art not just a skill!

Practice your art at home, so when you get in the woods you have the skills.

And, as an emergency backup friend, it would be foolish to not have a modern tool (Bic lighter) as a backup in the event your art & skills fail you but you are in a true to life emergency situation, but you didnt bring any... because your ego got in the way of common sense (Think borderline hypotherm).

Hell, Ill admit... tucked in the bottom of my ruck is a road flare... because no matter what (wet, rain, wind), when you MUST have fire, ROAD FLARE.  :-)

EB

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## Zack

> Mmmm.... Zack... I share your pain.
> 
> I tried for 2 hours to get a fire started in a light rain... to all fail.  I was running a spark rod and no brought from home tinder.
> 
> Spark a dry cotton ball, it goes up right away and burns just long enough to get small kindling started.
> 
> Remember the rule of wood:
> 
> 
> ...


In my daypack, I keep the ferro rod as an experimental tool (experimental tool sounds better than toy, but you get the picture).  Also, I like to keep matches and lighters in my kit.  I also keep some tinder (wetfire, dryer lint, jute twine, etc.).  I appreciate the fatwood idea, I didn't quite know how to use it.  I received a box of Duraflame fatwood for Christmas, I'll be sure to toss some in my kits.  Never wanted to have to use a flare for fire-starting, I guess nobody should.

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## hunter63

Dryer lint?....You don't have any dogs do you?
Around here dryer lint smells like burning dog hair........and survival use was invented by Maytag.......cotton balls are cheap and work well. 

Never underestimate the benefits of road flares.....I take them serious.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## Tokwan

Hunter..u're cheating...hahahah...ok EB and Zack, this is what I would do, in light rain. I have tried this and it works.
Firstly, get a bark or create a dry base for your tinder. I use a tree bark that has some resins. 
For tinder, its the cotton ball in petroleum jelly. 
I have also my home made para kindling, which helps to get the kindling dry.. and then catches fire (as I am in the rain forest, and all is wet..I mean the sticks and wood.).
The para kindling is jute rope (about 6"...dipped in liquid wax and left to dry).
Get your kindling ready. In the rain, pick twigs form branches that are covered with leaves from above, or pick twigs from dead trees. These twigs must never be or in contact with the wet ground.
If none, split fuel wood into small sizes. Make sure you have lots of kindling...my measurement is when you put both hands, index finger meeting each hand's thumbs...that is the amount.
My first try was with out a fire shelter..it worked, but then heavy rain came and put the fire out..I was testing how heavy a rain would you need to shield the fire.
My second try was with a fire shelter. I made a tripod, tied some cross members and uses tall grasses as the roofing. It worked!
Oh yes, I used the Swedish army fire steel.
I hope you can imagine...or..see my picture in the post where I stated Tokwan is writing a book. You can see the fire shelter. 
The most important thing when starting fire in the rain is the tinder, para kindling and the kindling..make sure you have lots of kindling. Fuel wood should be from kindling sizes , gradually increased to as big as you want, but the increment should be gradual.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...Writing-A-Book

I have never failed making fire in the rain after this. You can also use the hexamine solid fuel as a para kindling or fire accelerator. Any other thing that will burn for a long time helps. Just use your imagination!

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## Zack

> Dryer lint?....You don't have any dogs do you?
> Around here dryer lint smells like burning dog hair........and survival use was invented by Maytag.......cotton balls are cheap and work well. 
> 
> Never underestimate the benefits of road flares.....I take them serious.
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


I've got a Black Lab/Australian Sheepdog mix.  I don't notice any smell.

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## Batch

> I learned a couple of things on a recent primitive overnight camping trip.  The first was that I need help making fires.  I've mastered the art of one match fires and I'm ready to move on to more primitive methods.  I bought a ferro rod on ebay, I was excited to use it, and decided that this would be a good opportunity to do so.  I bird-nested some jute twine, wiped some pine sap into the wad of fluff, and used the back of my knife to spark the ferro rod.  I got a shower of sparks into the bundle, but it didn't go.  I tried, and tried, and tried.  Nothing.  Does anybody have anybody advice?
> 
> Another thing I need help with is natural tinder selection.  I think I found some fatwood, but I'm not sure.  Does anybody have ant advice for finding it, as well as other natural tinder?


The jute twine should be fluffed and also protected from high humidity. Leave the pine resin out of you tinder bundle. You want thin fibers because being thin they heat up to combustion temps quicker. The pine resin is a fuel that takes some heating to get to combust. 

The fatwood is a pine that is heavily impregnated with pine resin. It is very dense. It can be differentiated from other wood once you learn by kicking or tapping it. If you still can't tell pick it up or if it is a stump in the ground take an edged tool and shave the outer coating off. You'll see the resin and if you smell it you'll really smell the pine resin inside.

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## natertot

To further what batch just said, the fat wood is found in pine trees in the stump (bottom foot of the trunk before entering the ground) and smaller bits can be found in the larger limbs where smaller limbs come out. Think "knots" in the limbs. For those, I have stuck the point of my knife in and wiggled it back and forth making very fine shavings, almost powder like. This will go up in flames fast, so have larger shavings and all your small kindling at the ready. I hope this helps.

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## MrFixIt

Fatwood is abundant in my area. I've never failed to make a fire when using it. If it smells like turpentine, you know it is the real deal.

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## Sarge47

Zack, I worry about you dude.  You ask for advice on everything from BOBs, to shopping at Wal-Mart and everything in between.  So here's some top-notch advice.  Take your gift card to Wally World, go to the camping, sporting goods aisle, and buy a magnesium block and some "Wet Fire Tinder."  The tinder blocks will light in any weather condition and the mag block works so well that the US Air Force puts them in their pilots survival kits on their planes.  You simply shave some of the magnesium off the back of the block with the blade of your knie untill you have a "quarter-sized" pile of shavings.  then turn it around and strike the ferro rod that's embedded in it with the back of your knife blade into the pile.  You can also use the wet fire to start a blaze.... :Cowboy:

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## Zack

> Zack, I worry about you dude.  You ask for advice on everything from BOBs, to shopping at Wal-Mart and everything in between.  So here's some top-notch advice.  Take your gift card to Wally World, go to the camping, sporting goods aisle, and buy a magnesium block and some "Wet Fire Tinder."  The tinder blocks will light in any weather condition and the mag block works so well that the US Air Force puts them in their pilots survival kits on their planes.  You simply shave some of the magnesium off the back of the block with the blade of your knie untill you have a "quarter-sized" pile of shavings.  then turn it around and strike the ferro rod that's embedded in it with the back of your knife blade into the pile.  You can also use the wet fire to start a blaze....


There's nothing to worry about over here, I'm just curious.  There are a lot of smart people on this forum!  I received a package of wetfire as a birthday gift, but I was hoping to use a natural tinder.  I have been carrying two cubes in my pocket lately, though.  It's always nice to have a plan B.  Thanks for the advice.

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## kyratshooter

> Zack, I worry about you dude.  You ask for advice on everything from BOBs, to shopping at Wal-Mart and everything in between.  So here's some top-notch advice.  Take your gift card to Wally World, go to the camping, sporting goods aisle, and buy a magnesium block and some "Wet Fire Tinder."  The tinder blocks will light in any weather condition and the mag block works so well that the US Air Force puts them in their pilots survival kits on their planes.  You simply shave some of the magnesium off the back of the block with the blade of your knie untill you have a "quarter-sized" pile of shavings.  then turn it around and strike the ferro rod that's embedded in it with the back of your knife blade into the pile.  You can also use the wet fire to start a blaze....


We all worry about him Sarge, but at least he is polite and uses good grammar.  

We need a newbie asking good questions about once each year just to keep us on our toes.

And Zack, when you get home from Wallyworld go out in the back yard and practice.  Don't wait until you are in the field to find out if your fire starter and sleeping gear works.

And Hunter is not kidding about those road flares!  You can get those over in the automotive department.

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## shackwater

Zack, 
I get you.  There's a satisfaction that comes with mastering the skill.  And a self-assuredness, too.  I always use char-cloth.  If you aren't familiar with how to produce it, look it up on Youtube.  I also will quite often use cedar bark.  Just scrape the outer bark of a cedar tree with your knife blade held perpendicular to the tree.  the resulting fluff is fantastic for the inner part of your tinder-bundle.  From there I've used dead leaves, pine needles, dead/dry golden rod blossoms/tassels, milkweed fluff, almost anything dead, dry and loaded with surface area.  

To start if all off, I like to use a little char-cloth in my fire piston.  Once I have the glowing ember, I drop it onto my small piece of char-cloth in my bundle and start gently blowing it into a flame.  Good luck, man.

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## tjwilhelm

Here ya go, Zack!  Give this a try...

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## Zack

I think I understand.  There's a lot of information on this page to digest, but once it dries out over here (it's been raining off and on since Christmas Eve), I'm going to start experimenting.  I doubt that they'll be as extraordinary as tjwillhelm's, but I have a feeling that I'll figure something out.  Thanks for all of the responses, I really appreciate the advice.

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## crashdive123

Being able to create fire in the rain is a vital skill to have.  Now sounds like the perfect time for you to practice.

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## Sarge47

> Being able to create fire in the rain is a vital skill to have.  Now sounds like the perfect time for you to practice.


Right on the money Crash!  Survival situations are not always under optimal conditions.... :Sailor:

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## hunter63

> I think I understand.  There's a lot of information on this page to digest, but once it dries out over here (it's been raining off and on since Christmas Eve), I'm going to start experimenting.  I doubt that they'll be as extraordinary as tjwillhelm's, but I have a feeling that I'll figure something out.  Thanks for all of the responses, I really appreciate the advice.


Now is when you need to practice.......

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## Zack

I suppose I will then.

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## ElevenBravo

Screw the rain, best time to play with fatwood, it doesnt mind being a little wet!

The stronger the smell, the better it is!  If the smell is faint, its not real strong, probably wont light well.

EB

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## Tokwan

I have a 21 year old student who comes over every two weeks and I think he is as inquisitive as Zack, can't say who is more, but at this moment, almost ....heheh..I wish I have more students like him and Zack and a few others are always welcomed over here. These are the kind of people I love to teach. The more you ask, the more you learn. When I teach, I love to adopt the Socratic Method, teaching by asking them students. It helps to trigger the mind. It makes you innovative. When I teach, I learn too...that is why I love to teach..its the best way to learn!
Yep, Zack is polite enough and uses good English. Keep it up Zack, learn and practice. You will make a great survivalist. 

Just one word, try and practice by going somewhere nearby, and just use the what is in that area to survive. Have your back plan in case it doesn't work. I learn it that way!

And TJWilhelm, I love your video work! Its awesome. You have that charisma of that guy who is able to teach via video, with your words and actions easily understandable. Great job Dude! I really mean this!

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## Zack

> I have a 21 year old student who comes over every two weeks and I think he is as inquisitive as Zack, can't say who is more, but at this moment, almost ....heheh..I wish I have more students like him and Zack and a few others are always welcomed over here. These are the kind of people I love to teach. The more you ask, the more you learn. When I teach, I love to adopt the Socratic Method, teaching by asking them students. It helps to trigger the mind. It makes you innovative. When I teach, I learn too...that is why I love to teach..its the best way to learn!
> Yep, Zack is polite enough and uses good English. Keep it up Zack, learn and practice. You will make a great survivalist. 
> 
> Just one word, try and practice by going somewhere nearby, and just use the what is in that area to survive. Have your back plan in case it doesn't work. I learn it that way!
> 
> And TJWilhelm, I love your video work! Its awesome. You have that charisma of that guy who is able to teach via video, with your words and actions easily understandable. Great job Dude! I really mean this!


I appreciate the compliments!

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## crashdive123

> I suppose I will then.


Think of different ways you can collect dry tinder and firewood.  Low, small, dead branches on a fir tree if available.......splitting dead wood that is wet to get to the dry center.......tree fungi that you find......and on and on.

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## natertot

Zack, You are an inquisitive fellow, but as others have stated it keeps us sharp by allowing us to revisit things we have learned. I know I ask what seems to some like "rookie" or "noob" questions from time to time. I little while ago I was looking at some tent options and KyRat had to set me straight on that, (Thanks, KyRat, by the way). All in all, that is how we begin to learn. We hear/or see something, we ask and educate ourselves about it, we try and accomplish the task, and then we know we have mastered it when we can teach it to someone else. In short, keep asking and we will keep helping. Especially since you are polite and willing to learn. Seems to be a rarity amongst most of the new people lately.

Crash is spot on when it comes to gathering fire materials in wet conditions. Small and dry is key. Small dead limbs that are hanging in trees are usually pretty dry. Dead standing trees are a good source. Look under evergreen trees as well because they tend to "shelter" whatever is under them. You will also find old pine needles and pine cones are great to add to a flame and burn hot and quick. Because of that, be sure to have plenty of fuel to feed them as they do burn fast. Abandoned nests work pretty good to start a fire if you find one as well.

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## Zack

I appreciate the comment.  I didn't think about gathering needles from under the pine trees on m trip, those went to my "mattress".  I did try needles that were starting to dry, though.  They weren't working.  I even took a match to them.  They caught the flame, then went out within three seconds.  I had never thought about bird nests to start a fire.  It seems like they would be too dense, doesn't it?  

Last night, I tried my ferro rod on some jute twine fluffs.  One too 10-15 tries it went up, the other just didn't.  I'll keep trying.  Also, does anybody have advice about a striker?  The size of my knife makes it kind of hard to place the rod into the bundle.  I was just aiming the sparks last night, but I don't think it was useful.

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## Rick

Zack - It's often a good idea to gather tinder along the way if you aren't carrying it or want to use a more primitive method of fire starting. If you do that you will have your tinder with you when you decide to make camp. You won't have to spend time looking for it. You'll have one job completed already. The other thing is if it starts to rain you will already have dry tinder making your job much easier.

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## crashdive123

Zack - your experience is why most of us carry tinder with us, and as Rick said - gather it along the way.  Here are a few simple ones you can carry.

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## Zack

I got the opportunity to play around with my ferro rod today.  I took some of the advice and changed my striking technique.  I started 8/8 jute twine bundles, and about half of them were with one strike!  I'm confident in my ferro rod skills now, I appreciate all of the advice!

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## natertot

Awesome! Practice is key!

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## Seniorman

> HUNTER63 - "Never underestimate the benefits of road flares.....*I take them serious*."


H63, you ain't kidding!!  So do I!!

When I used to ride horses to hunt elk I carried a couple of standard road flares in my saddle bags.  I also carried ½ of a road flare in my day pack, which was always with me.  I still keep ½ road flare in my day pack, although no longer hunt on horseback.

I have been in two situations where I really, really needed a fire RIGHT DAMN NOW!! Once in Colorado at about 11,000 feet altitude, and another time here in Idaho at about 7,000 feet.  Both times, due to circumstances, time of day, and weather, "miserable conditions" was not an exaggeration.

In Colorado it was later in the afternoon when I shot a bull elk.  The morning temperature was a toasty -17° F. and the afternoon wasn't much warmer, plus it had been snowing steadily.  There were about 12 inches of snow on the ground.  I was warmly dressed, layers, but had done some sweating to get to the dead bull.  I was turning cold.  

I knew I was going to be there awhile, at least after dark, cleaning the elk.  My partner had heard the shot and arrived to help.  He said, "What can I do to help?"

I said, "You go get the horses.  I'm going to build a fire before I freeze, then we'll dress out this bull."

He left to get our two horses which were tied about a mile away.  Although there were fallen pine trees around, the wood was wet.  It was snowing harder.  I gathered a bunch of squaw wood, plus larger stuff, laid it on a base of broken limbs, pulled out my ½ flare and fired it up.  That squaw wood caught and the intense heat from that flare quickly caught the larger limbs on fire.  By the time he returned, I had dried out my damp clothes, warmed my hands and was dressing the elk.  He was more than happy that a nice warm fire awaited him, too.

We finished with the elk, by then using our flashlights to work.  We took the loins and backstrap in our saddle bags, hoisted the elk using our ropes tied to our saddle horns to get it off the ground and headed for camp which was four or five miles away.  By then it was really snowing.  Fortunately, the horses knew more where we were and where camp was than we did, as we could not make out any landmarks because of the darkness and snow.  Got back to a warm camp safe and sound but there were a few "hairy" moments.

The second time I used the road flare to build fire was somewhat under the same circumstances, in Idaho.  Needless to say, when I need a fire RIGHT DAMN NOW!!, I do not play around or experiment with flint and steel, ferro rods and cotton balls, Bics, or  strike-anywhere matches.  At that moment it is my handy dandy road flare to the rescue!   :Thumbs Up: 

Just my opinion based on a couple experiences.

S.M.

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## Zack

> H63, you ain't kidding!!  So do I!!
> 
> When I used to ride horses to hunt elk I carried a couple of standard road flares in my saddle bags.  I also carried ½ of a road flare in my day pack, which was always with me.  I still keep ½ road flare in my day pack, although no longer hunt on horseback.
> 
> I have been in two situations where I really, really needed a fire RIGHT DAMN NOW!! Once in Colorado at about 11,000 feet altitude, and another time here in Idaho at about 7,000 feet.  Both times, due to circumstances, time of day, and weather, "miserable conditions" was not an exaggeration.
> 
> In Colorado it was later in the afternoon when I shot a bull elk.  The morning temperature was a toasty -17° F. and the afternoon wasn't much warmer, plus it had been snowing steadily.  There were about 12 inches of snow on the ground.  I was warmly dressed, layers, but had done some sweating to get to the dead bull.  I was turning cold.  
> 
> I knew I was going to be there awhile, at least after dark, cleaning the elk.  My partner had heard the shot and arrived to help.  He said, "What can I do to help?"
> ...


Are they safe?  There'd have to be fumes, so could you cook with a fire you started with one?

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## hunter63

> Are they safe?  There'd have to be fumes, so could you cook with a fire you started with one?


Any fire has fumes........I guess I wouldn't cook a hot dog over a flare.....but the fire it started..... should be fine.

.....and If I had to use a flare....fumes would not be at the top of my list of stuff to worry about.

Great experience story, SM....have to be there to understand the "NEED RIGHT DAMN NOW" situation.

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## Zack

> Any fire has fumes........I guess I wouldn't cook a hot dog over a flare.....but the fire it started..... should be fine.
> 
> .....and If I had to use a flare....fumes would not be at the top of my list of stuff to worry about.
> 
> Great experience story, SM....have to be there to understand the "NEED RIGHT DAMN NOW" situation.


Good points.  Are there any brands you like over the others?  Orion makes them, don't they?

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## Seniorman

> "...I guess I wouldn't cook a hot dog over a flare.....but the fire it started..... should be fine.
> 
> .....and If I had to use a flare....fumes would not be at the top of my list of stuff to worry about.
> 
> Great experience story, SM....have to be there to understand the "NEED RIGHT DAMN NOW" situation.


Yep.

Zack, the road flare is to start a fire when conditions are wet, cold, and warmth is absolutely necessary immediately.  My half a road flare burns intensely for seven or eight minutes and will most assuredly ignite damp or even wet wood, so long as you've done a bit of prep to the wood.  I suppose if you put a flare under a bunch of wet logs it  would not work... but if you've prepared your wood correctly -- small, medium, larger wood -- you'll have a good fire soon.  

As for cooking over a flare, I don't see any need for that because by the time the flare has burned out, you'll have fire and coals to warm up your canteen cup or frying pan, or hotdog on a stick.  

As for carrying a half flare which cuts down on a bit of weight in your pack, or jacket pocket, here is how to make one.  

Take a standard size road flare, place on a solid surface and using a sharp, thinner blade knife, cut right through the flare at the half way point.

Then take some Elmer's Glue or Gorilla Glue and put a thin coating on the *cut* end. Let it dry completely and then apply another thin coating.  When dry, put it in a Zip Lok bag, place it in your pack or jacket pocket and you're ready for emergency fire lighting in wet, cold conditions.

S.M.

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## hunter63

> Good points.  Are there any brands you like over the others?  Orion makes them, don't they?


I think that Orion kinda has the biggest market share......at least I trust those....
Haven't really seen any other brands.....but I'll bet others are made in China.

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## ElevenBravo

Zach, just for fun and giggles... strike on a cotton ball...  its an eye opening experience!

No need for pet. jelly or wax, just strike a plain ol' regular cotton ball.

EB

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## Zack

> Zach, just for fun and giggles... strike on a cotton ball...  its an eye opening experience!
> 
> No need for pet. jelly or wax, just strike a plain ol' regular cotton ball.
> 
> EB


I'll try it for myself.  I've seen Crash's video and he had good luck with it.

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## TXyakr

Seniorman that was a very good real life story of when a flare is important to have in your pack.

It reminded me of that "Somebody's Gotta Do It: The Real Survivor" Episode #4 where Mike Rowe is not afraid to air video of himself being taught and making several mistakes on how to use signal flares. I could not find the video of it online, it may be available if you have Video On Demand from your provider, look under CNN. But here is a link to the transcript:

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1410/29/se.01.html

Bottom line: as with all tools its a good idea to practice how to use them. Good way to start a signal fire or smoke very quickly when search aircraft are heard or seen coming or you need to get warm and dry quickly. Rubbing sticks deep under a forest canopy while a plane flies overhead would be discouraging, especially if that search pattern was not repeated for days. Or not being able to figure out how to light a flare or where you dropped the striker like Mike Rowe did. He covers serious issues in an entertaining way, and some silly things as well, but even then there is a real issue hidden under there.

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## hunter63

I gonna just throw this out there.......Candle ends.
We use candle lanterns at rendezvous ........and use bees wax candles....I always save the ends about 1" to 1-1/4" long.
Tuck one in your pocket, and when it's damp wood or dark and flashlight is out light the candle.

Make you little tipi of small sticks set the candle on a piece of bark or something fairly level and light it up.

I gonna guess that every jacket, bag, tool box, tackle box has a few candle ends in it.

Bees wax also good for drossing off lead impurities when making bullets.

NOTE..... does not need to be bees wax...... any candle end, birthday candle.........I think that tea candles have been mentioned....brought it up as the ends usually get tossed in the fire.

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## Zack

I've got some tea lights in my daypack.  Maybe I should add some to my BOB.

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## Seniorman

TXyakr, thanks for the compliment and the link.  I'll look it up.

S.M.

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## Tokwan

> I appreciate the comment.  I didn't think about gathering needles from under the pine trees on m trip, those went to my "mattress".  I did try needles that were starting to dry, though.  They weren't working.  I even took a match to them.  They caught the flame, then went out within three seconds.  I had never thought about bird nests to start a fire.  It seems like they would be too dense, doesn't it?  
> 
> Last night, I tried my ferro rod on some jute twine fluffs.  One too 10-15 tries it went up, the other just didn't.  I'll keep trying.  Also, does anybody have advice about a striker?  The size of my knife makes it kind of hard to place the rod into the bundle.  I was just aiming the sparks last night, but I don't think it was useful.


Get a used worn out hack saw and cut it to size...

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## Tokwan

If Hunter have it his way, he would be bringing the stove in his kitchen for camping...hahahahahaha...

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## RangerXanatos

> If Hunter have it his way, he would be bringing the stove in his kitchen for camping...hahahahahaha...


No. If Hunter had his way, it would be him and Ruth starting a friction fire. Not saying where...

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## hunter63

> If Hunter have it his way, he would be bringing the stove in his kitchen for camping...hahahahahaha...


Y'all can "survive" if y'all want....I prefer to "Thrive"
I don't "Run away to the wilderness".....I go there to live for a while...for hunting, or fishing, or re-enacting....or just traveling.

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## Lamewolf

> Dryer lint?....You don't have any dogs do you?
> Around here dryer lint smells like burning dog hair........and survival use was invented by Maytag.......cotton balls are cheap and work well. 
> 
> Never underestimate the benefits of road flares.....I take them serious.
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


MAN !  An I got slapped in the chops here for recommending a Bic lighter ! LOL

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## hunter63

> MAN !  An I got slapped in the chops here for recommending a Bic lighter ! LOL


Well, it wasn't by me........
I still carry a Bic in everything I own....and quit smoking last year....
To not carry a Bic, is just asking for trouble.

BTW the leather belt pouch as a both Mini Bic and Ferro rod/cotton balls

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## Zack

> Well, it wasn't by me........
> I still carry a Bic in everything I own....and quit smoking last year....
> To not carry a Bic, is just asking for trouble.
> 
> BTW the leather belt pouch as a both Mini Bic and Ferro rod/cotton balls


I've got a pack of mini Bic's in my fire kit.  I think I'm proficient with a ferro rod, but it's never bad to have a Plan B.

----------


## crashdive123

> MAN !  An I got slapped in the chops here for recommending a Bic lighter ! LOL


I'd venture a guess that most people that wander into the woods have at least one BIC with them.

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## Sarge47

When I was asked recently "what was my favorite method for fire starting when I go camping," I answered that I use a butane charcoal starter.  Forget "primitive,"  I want to eat dammit!... :Chef:

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## Rick

If God didn't want me to carry a BIC into the woods he wouldn't have invented them. I'm with Sarge. I don't need to do primitive. If you have a flamethrower handy it's all good by me.

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## Zack

> If God didn't want me to carry a BIC into the woods he wouldn't have invented them. I'm with Sarge. I don't need to do primitive. If you have a flamethrower handy it's all good by me.


Everyone who's ever been a kid knows about the hair spray and Bic lighter trick...

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## crashdive123

> Everyone who's ever been a kid knows about the hair spray and Bic lighter trick...


Some even know that with a Bic and spray can of Right Guard one can catch the bedroom curtains on fire.   :Innocent:   Of course, those same people also know that a serious azz whooping is soon to follow.   :chair:  :whip:

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## Zack

> Some even know that with a Bic and spray can of Right Guard one can catch the bedroom curtains on fire.    Of course, those same people also know that a serious azz whooping is soon to follow.


Too bad neither of us knows anything about that sort of thing...   :Angel:

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## Batch

> Are they safe?  There'd have to be fumes, so could you cook with a fire you started with one?


Zack, he mentioned that he used fallen pine as a fuel that he started with the 1/2 road flare. You wouldn't want to cook over pine directly until it had burned down to a coal bed. If I am stuck with pine as a cooking fuel I pull coals out of the fire and use those. If you have a snug fitting lid for your cook pot you can cook over pine. I would still stick to the hot coals myself though. Pines put out a pretty nasty smoke. The heavier the resin content (fatwood), the worse that smoke is.

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## Sarge47

> Everyone who's ever been a kid knows about the hair spray and Bic lighter trick...


Or you can use insect repellent instead of right guard!... :Innocent: ... :Sneaky2:

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## Traditionalist

If you have a metal container with a screw on lid, such as a pellet container, get some wet dead grass or any other natural tinder, and stuff it in the container so it's very compacted and full. Let it sit for a few weeks and it will be dry, and a great fire starter as it makes a hockey puck of dead grass. Just pull it apart a bit, separate the fibers and give it a spark with the ferro rod. It will light up fast, and last a while. If you have 4 or 5 containers you can make enough to the point where your not waiting. I mastered my ferro rod and have moved up to the gold old forged striker and chunk of flint

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## natertot

Bic is the primary way to go in my book. I carry one in my pocket non stop and whenever I am out "in the woods" I keep a spare in my fire kit along with matches, fatwood, cotton balls, fero rod, and candles. Bic is what gets used most of the time. The other stuff mostly gets "played with" and is reserved for problem moments.

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## hunter63

> Bic is the primary way to go in my book. I carry one in my pocket non stop and whenever I am out "in the woods" I keep a spare in my fire kit along with matches, fatwood, cotton balls, fero rod, and candles. Bic is what gets used most of the time. The other stuff mostly gets "played with" and is reserved for problem moments.


Plus 1
That's what in my kits....and pockets....

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## Zack

> Plus 1
> That's what in my kits....and pockets....


I like wooden matches, but Bics are alright.  Do you like the Bic minis?

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## RangerXanatos

> I like wooden matches, but Bics are alright.  Do you like the Bic minis?


Bic minis are what I carry and have been for years. I've never been let down by them.

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## hunter63

> I like wooden matches, but Bics are alright.  Do you like the Bic minis?


Yeah....but any will work well.

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## natertot

I like the Bic mini cause it takes up less room in the pockets and kits. Just a personal preference.

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## MrFixIt

> Bic is the primary way to go in my book. I carry one in my pocket non stop and whenever I am out "in the woods" I keep a spare in my fire kit along with matches, fatwood, cotton balls, fero rod, and candles. Bic is what gets used most of the time. The other stuff mostly gets "played with" and is reserved for problem moments.


Plus 2. I was taught at a young age to carry a lighter, even though I didn't smoke at the time.
And when I quit smoking this year (one of my resolutions), I'll still carry a lighter in my pocket.

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## natertot

> And when I quit smoking this year (one of my resolutions), I'll still carry a lighter in my pocket.


Best of luck. That is a tough task. Hunter quit, I am sure he could tell you all about it.

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## Sarge47

IMO, Primitive fire making knowledge has it's place.   In reenactments for example.  Experts can demonstrate how the early native Americans, Mountain Men, and other earlier pioneers made fire the old way.  Also, if one has no other recourse and is in desperate need of a fire, then primitive methods are a great alternative.  However, the thing to remember is that progress made things easier and more fool-proof.The conservation of energy is paramount in any survival situation.  Expanding/wasting energy to start a fire when it would be much quicker and easier to use a lighter or a match is not wise.  "Be Prepared" is the Scout motto and if you take that to heart then you should be okay... :Cowboy:

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## hunter63

> Best of luck. That is a tough task. Hunter quit, I am sure he could tell you all about it.


Yes still quit....was a year on December 11th, 11:32 A.M............Still a smoker, just haven't smoked anything.....
Took major surgery........and don't want to do it again.

Still carry BIC's in everything, feel naked if I don't.....kinda a "Well I'm not gonna light a smoke, but I could if I had to"....some mag bars and ferro rods........Full kits in bags and vehicle's.

Best of luck on quiting....figure I saved about $5000 last year...That could be a lot of guns......

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## Rick

There is nothing easy about not smoking. I quit on 6/7/89. I figured that was a date I could remember.

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## Batch

> Another thing I need help with is natural tinder selection.  I think I found some fatwood, but I'm not sure.  Does anybody have ant advice for finding it, as well as other natural tinder?


Have you tried Birch bark,plant fluff from cattails, bullrushes, dandelions, inner bark from cedars, cypress, oak, grape vine? The key is to process the tinder down so that you have small fibers and shavings.

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## Sarge47

> Have you tried Birch bark,plant fluff from cattails, bullrushes, dandelions, inner bark from cedars, cypress, oak, grape vine? The key is to process the tinder down so that you have small fibers and shavings.


You can also make fuzz sticks!... :Cowboy:

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## Zack

> Have you tried Birch bark,plant fluff from cattails, bullrushes, dandelions, inner bark from cedars, cypress, oak, grape vine? The key is to process the tinder down so that you have small fibers and shavings.


I have tried cattail fuzz and birch bark.  I used the birch bark to catch and hold the flame from jute twine, which in my case burns very hot and very quickly, but I could never get the bark to catch a spark itself.  I have had issues getting cattail fuzz to take a spark, but when it does, it goes like a thin stream of gasoline.  It won't burn long enough for me to get secondary tinder on it.  Have you got any advice?

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## Zack

> You can also make fuzz sticks!...


Back in the days when we had to chase the dinosaurs out of our Scout meetings, we learned to make "feather sticks".  I suppose that we're talking about the same thing?  Anyway, they worked well with matches, but I've never tried one with a ferro rod,  I think I smell an experiment...

----------


## Batch

> You can also make fuzz sticks!...


I find that I can process and get a much more efficient fire lay by just processing the wood down to the size I need to get a fire. If you google one stick fire or one stick fire drill you'll see the basic technique. Which works really great when there is no dry tinder to be had. If your using a ferro it might help to shave a little powder using the squared off back of you knife or machete.

----------


## DomC

> Also, does anybody have advice about a striker?


I went to my local big box hardware/home improvement store and bought one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004YIWB9W/...SIN=B004YIWB9W
I wrapped some duct tape around one end for a handle. It's small enough to allow you to place the ferro rod into the tinder and scrape it with short strokes to ignite it. It's a bit pricey but it works...the best imo. Or you can grind the spine of your blade at the point to do the same thing. I did that to my IZULA II and it is my go to knife when working with a ferro rod. 

This product works magic with a ferro rod too:  http://www.amazon.com/Corona-AC-8300...tool+sharpener
I used a similar tool to sharpen the spines of all my bushcraft knives... good luck. Practice, PRACTICE, practice.

DomC




Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

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## old soldier

> I learned a couple of things on a recent primitive overnight camping trip.  The first was that I need help making fires.  I've mastered the art of one match fires and I'm ready to move on to more primitive methods.  I bought a ferro rod on ebay, I was excited to use it, and decided that this would be a good opportunity to do so.  I bird-nested some jute twine, wiped some pine sap into the wad of fluff, and used the back of my knife to spark the ferro rod.  I got a shower of sparks into the bundle, but it didn't go.  I tried, and tried, and tried.  Nothing.  Does anybody have anybody advice?
> 
> Another thing I need help with is natural tinder selection.  I think I found some fatwood, but I'm not sure.  Does anybody have ant advice for finding it, as well as other natural tinder?


 it sounds like you need some char cloth or some chaga to get spark going when using a flint and steel or ferro rod, get a spark going and put the spark in the birds nest and blow lightly into it till in bursts into  a flame, have your bone dry tinder ready and put the flaming nest under it. keep adding larger and dry wood as the fire gets going.

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## fjrmurph

Gas works, I mean gas and a tin can. A small can works good tuna or something similar. Pour a 1/2 inch in the bottom of the can and light it up, the gas will vaporize and burn,should burn for 5-10 minutes long enough to get some wood started. You can see the can in the pic.Will try to post a pic.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## rhill1212

char cloth works great 1 spark and its burning

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## crashdive123

More like one spark and you have an ember.

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## hunter63

> char cloth works great 1 spark and its burning


Little bit more to it than that......

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## Zack

> Little bit more to it than that......


I've since moved past my issues with the ferro rod, I think.  I've even gotten one  fire started with charcloth!  Thanks for all the help, you guys, I think I'm set for now.  Practice, practice, practice!

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## Tokwan

I hope you would not rely on one item as you might lose it.
I carry a bIC Lighter in sandwich wrap in my pocket. A ferro rod and also a Magnesium Bar. 
I also carry a camera negative film roll container filled with cotton balls saturated in petroleum jelly. I put one set in my pocket (the lighter), the ferro rod and petroleum jelly in bag and the magnesium bar on my knife sheath. 
Just in case. I do this because in my area, I cannot rely on primitive fire making methods as the success rate is borderline.

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## Zack

> I hope you would not rely on one item as you might lose it.
> I carry a bIC Lighter in sandwich wrap in my pocket. A ferro rod and also a Magnesium Bar. 
> I also carry a camera negative film roll container filled with cotton balls saturated in petroleum jelly. I put one set in my pocket (the lighter), the ferro rod and petroleum jelly in bag and the magnesium bar on my knife sheath. 
> Just in case. I do this because in my area, I cannot rely on primitive fire making methods as the success rate is borderline.


When I go out, I keep the ferro rod in my pocket, but a large fire kit (matches, magnesium bar, lighter, charcloth, etc.) in my kit.  If the ferro rod doesn't work out, I always have options, though.

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## TXyakr

Zack, your prep plans to have multiple types of fire starters and one relatively small Ferrocerium rod and blade (striker) on your person at all times and practice these methods is a very good IMO. If very small ferro-rod protect it from getting broken, vinyl tube or something. Years ago I was stuck twice with no fire starter and needed to borrow one in wet weather, extremely poor careless planning. Now I have multiple tucked around in my gear.

On a personal note I was semi joking with a outdoors friend about needing to practice "rubbing sticks" and he offered to blast a fire hose on me while I attempted "hand drill". Nice guy. For most of us that is an extremely frustrating skill to practice under ideal conditions. Bottom line if weather looks like it could get wet protect your tinder, gather and protect firewood and be very sure firestarter(s) are not lost or broken.

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## Zack

> Zack, your prep plans to have multiple types of fire starters and one relatively small Ferrocerium rod and blade (striker) on your person at all times and practice these methods is a very good IMO. If very small ferro-rod protect it from getting broken, vinyl tube or something. Years ago I was stuck twice with no fire starter and needed to borrow one in wet weather, extremely poor careless planning. Now I have multiple tucked around in my gear.
> 
> On a personal note I was semi joking with a outdoors friend about needing to practice "rubbing sticks" and he offered to blast a fire hose on me while I attempted "hand drill". Nice guy. For most of us that is an extremely frustrating skill to practice under ideal conditions. Bottom line if weather looks like it could get wet protect your tinder, gather and protect firewood and be very sure firestarter(s) are not lost or broken.


Thanks for the tips.  The ferro rod is a good size one, but it's not too big.  I have started a few fires with it, and I think I've got my technique down.

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## TXyakr

I just read thru this thread again, lots of good ideas. 2 cents I might add that are obvious to most including Zack but might not be to some very new to fire starting.
1. BIC and similar plastic lighters are easily broken so protect them, I keep one in cook pot. Don't like to lend out once someone stepped on it while borrowing. Can theoretically still start a fire with empty lighter or broken if roller and tiny ferro rod still work but it is very difficult. Try with accelerant (pj) and cotton ball in an aluminum foil disposable roasting pan.

2. "Bird's nest" does not necessarily refer to a nest of a bird but bundle of kindling that can be easily held and blown to add oxygen after ember, sparks or char cloth etc has been placed in it. Then place on ground or logs if ground is wet, stack Twiggs around it etc (resembles very loose birds nest with ember as egg, see hundreds of YT videos).

Watched a "Pioneer" show on Nat Geo. Channel the "survivalist" lady had no char cloth with her flint and striker just sat there destroying most of flint into bundle of straw on ground.  OH WELL! That's TV.

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## Fort fireman

> I just read thru this thread again, lots of good ideas. 2 cents I might add that are obvious to most including Zack but might not be to some very new to fire starting.
> 1. BIC and similar plastic lighters are easily broken so protect them, I keep one in cook pot. Don't like to lend out once someone stepped on it while borrowing. Can theoretically still start a fire with empty lighter or broken if roller and tiny ferro rod still work but it is very difficult. Try with accelerant (pj) and cotton ball in an aluminum foil disposable roasting pan.
> 
> 2. "Bird's nest" does not necessarily refer to a nest of a bird but bundle of kindling that can be easily held and blown to add oxygen after ember, sparks or char cloth etc has been placed in it. Then place on ground or logs if ground is wet, stack Twiggs around it etc (resembles very loose birds nest with ember as egg, see hundreds of YT videos).
> 
> Watched a "Pioneer" show on Nat Geo. Channel the "survivalist" lady had no char cloth with her flint and striker just sat there destroying most of flint into bundle of straw on ground.  OH WELL! That's TV.


I saw that show to. I still don't know how she got that fire going the way she was doing it. I think it was a bit of movie magic personally. Like the camera man handing her a lighter.  :Smile: 
That coukd have been a really good show but it did kind of take a turn to the silly. IMHO.

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## Gary

I think it's a great idea to learn a primitive fire starting method like a bow drill.  Having the knowledge and skill to start a fire with nothing on you is a huge psychological boost.  That being said I always carry multiple fire starting methods when I go hiking, a bic lighter and cotton balls with petroleum jelly being my first choice.  It's great to practice with all kinds of techniques in all kinds of weather, it only improves on your skill set.  I like to go hiking to a lake not far from home.  It's about 45 min up the mountain and I will ususally play around with different things when I am there. 

 I went hiking to a lake much further up the mountain.  It was late July but I had run into snow about a kilometer from the saddle of the mountain and by the time I got down the other side to the lake I had been hiking for 8 hours, my boots were wet and I was sweaty.  I wanted a fire to dry off and those are the times that you are going to start a fire the easiest and fastest way possible. A road flare would have been nice...or a flame thrower as some mentioned.  I think I used cotton balls and petroleum jelly, plus a healthy amount of hand sanitizer lol.  Whatever gets the damn fire up and going.  

Building fires requires practice but it also requires patience.  You need to gather all of the right material from tinder, to different stages of kindling etc.  Nothing more frustrating than getting your fore going just to have it go out while you are running around trying to find more fuel to add to it.  Preperation is key.

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## Tokwan

A bit of a reminder, even though you have practiced making fire the primitive way, please do not be sure that it can be done every time as it depends on the natural resources available in the area, weather conditions, and also altitude. Do not be over confident as when it fails, you lose the confidence which is never good in survival situation. Make sure you have something that works.

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## hayshaker

i agree tokwan having the skill sets of fire makeing is indeed important but one
must also remember that calories consumed doing it the old way , that is if your not
a expert at it than in a real survival situation modern methods are a must i,d say.
i have a small survival pouch a condor m16 utility pouch it has stormproof matches.
wetfire.a mimi bic,a 3/8thsx4in firesteel,and a push frictionfire steel device great for tight
places when needed and can it send out a shower of sparks.7.00 at wally world .

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## Tokwan

Yep..I am now to the extend of carrying a couple of road flares myself.......so that I can send out a signal to let people know where I am and at the same time, make a fire...hehehehehe...now where the hell is Hunter?

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## scumbucket

I have a fire starting kit, and sparks readily ignite dryer lint, and cotton balls. When you're out in the woods look for old stumps that the loggers cut the trees from, a lot of these have very pitchy sides and an ax or a hatchet will cut pieces of this off in a hurry, a knife can shave off pieces of those and when set on a ball of cotton or dryer lint, will catch and you'll have a nice fire. Works for me every time.

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## hunter63

> I have a fire starting kit, and sparks readily ignite dryer lint, and cotton balls. When you're out in the woods look for old stumps that the loggers cut the trees from, a lot of these have very pitchy sides and an ax or a hatchet will cut pieces of this off in a hurry, a knife can shave off pieces of those and when set on a ball of cotton or dryer lint, will catch and you'll have a nice fire. Works for me every time.


Work if the three were pine....and you can find lighter pine, or fat wood in the stumps.
You are correct, works well even if wet....the resin will burn like crazy.

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## hayshaker

went out in the grove again today rubbed 2 bics together just kiddin used charcol and twigs aand some strike anywhere matches.
9,degrees at 10am but did go up to 18,degrees. those coals are stiil hot as i post cause i just came in a few minutes ago. i made some coffee
and hungout with the dog awhile in the tent it was nice and i,ll be back out tomorrow to do breakfast.

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## Zack

> went out in the grove again today rubbed 2 bics together just kiddin used charcol and twigs aand some strike anywhere matches.
> 9,degrees at 10am but did go up to 18,degrees. those coals are stiil hot as i post cause i just came in a few minutes ago. i made some coffee
> and hungout with the dog awhile in the tent it was nice and i,ll be back out tomorrow to do breakfast.


Have fun!  Good to hear another success story!

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## hunter63

> went out in the grove again today rubbed 2 bics together.........................


Now that is funny, I don't care who you are......

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## MrFixIt

I'll extend the same offer to anyone that needs/wants fat wood as I did to Zack.
PM me if interested.
Have gallon baggies of shavings, "matches", and chunks.

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## hayshaker

everyone talks about FATWOOD whats wrong with skinnywood? not that i,m PC or anything.

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## hunter63

Don't have the "skinny" on skinny wood......just fat wood.....

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## crashdive123

> everyone talks about FATWOOD whats wrong with skinnywood? not that i,m PC or anything.


In order to generate enough heat to have an exothermic reaction calories must be expended.  There is simply not enough caloric content in skinny wood to generate the required amount of excitation to result in combustion, therefore fatwood is called for.

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## Tokwan

Okay..let me try on slimwood.

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## MrFixIt

> In order to generate enough heat to have an exothermic reaction calories must be expended.  There is simply not enough caloric content in skinny wood to generate the required amount of excitation to result in combustion, therefore fatwood is called for.


LOL!
That has got to be the most well thought out scientific reply I've ever read!

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## Rick

Yeah. I'd have to give that response this week's wordsmith award. I thunk you hit the sweet spot on that one.

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## hunter63

> In order to generate enough heat to have an exothermic reaction calories must be expended.  There is simply not enough caloric content in skinny wood to generate the required amount of excitation to result in combustion, therefore fatwood is called for.


No ship?........

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## Zack

> I'll extend the same offer to anyone that needs/wants fat wood as I did to Zack.
> PM me if interested.
> Have gallon baggies of shavings, "matches", and chunks.


I did trade with him recently.  Everything went great, in my opinion.  I did end up sending him my end of the deal (a bunch of birch bark) a little late, but after all the snow we had not too long ago, I figured that I should let it dry out.  Anyway, I'd recommend trading with him in a heartbeat!  I'll trade some river-birch bark with any who wants to experiment or get a new type of tinder.  Just PM me!

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## Batch

You know swapping out various types of tinders, drills, hearth boards and what not sounds like a cool idea.

I have been playing with hand drills lately. Horse weed on willow didn't work. Horse weed on red cedar produced the dust and smoke. But, I think we lack the technique yet. Brazilian Pepper on red cedar produced dust and lots of smoke. I have some dog fennel drying for a spindle. I got lots of smoke on some dried out strangler fig for a hearth last night. But, I burned right through it with the horse weed spindle. I may go out and get some black elderberry for a spindle this weekend.

While we are out gathering these materials, we could gather enough to barter for other materials which may be very common in the areas you frequent. And swap that for something that you don't often have time to go gather at the appropriate time or isn't even available in your area. But, you would like to experiment with it anyway.

I've got fatwood too. I just lit a fire with some type of birch that was bought at a local grocery store. A guy at work built a very nice fire pit out of arched split stone and made matching benches all the way around. But, he couldn't get a fire started with any real wood. Just those lighter logs. LOL

So, I showed how he could process a log down very easily and get all he needed from it to start his fire and get the bigger pieces going. I used a lighter and the birch bark put out a similar black smoke like lighter knot.

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## MrFixIt

Sounds good to me Batch. I have access to tulip poplar, cedar, hickory, pecan...the list goes on.
And River cane is abundant in my area, could even set up a swap for crafting materials.

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## MrFixIt

> I did trade with him recently.  Everything went great, in my opinion.  I did end up sending him my end of the deal (a bunch of birch bark) a little late, but after all the snow we had not too long ago, I figured that I should let it dry out.  Anyway, I'd recommend trading with him in a heartbeat!  I'll trade some river-birch bark with any who wants to experiment or get a new type of tinder.  Just PM me!


Thanks for the kind words Zack. I will say the same for you.
I now have enough birch bark to make a canoe!!

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## Zack

> Thanks for the kind words Zack. I will say the same for you.
> I now have enough birch bark to make a canoe!!


It sounds like you got the package. Sorry it was a little late, but at least it was dry.  If you run out, I've got plenty more!

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## NE Survival

You might need to open the tinder bundle more. I had the same problem, but the more oxygen the better. Good Luck!

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

It's not primitive but it works great. 

0000 steel wool will take a spark and burn like nobody's business.  Stick a piece of it inside some dry tinder and if you've got the rest of your kindling ready you'll have a fire with one spark.  Hold it and blow into it like normal and then set it under the kindling.

Alan

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## Antonyraison

a ferrorod is primitive?
This is an old thread, anyway for the sake of answering the question
anything very dry and fluffy usually works 
Very dry grass, sometime certain very dry leaves, certain Bark processed finely. Birch bark, scrape the inner bark into a fluffy power that work with ferro rods.
Fat wood is simply resin impregnated Pine. 
failing all of that a cotton ball, for longer burn times a cotton ball with Vaseline inside.
And also dryer Lint works.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

In another life I was a teacher.  For two years I taught 9th grade science to kids with learning/reading difficulties.  We did a lot of "hands on" science.  As part of a larger lesson, we used fire making to learn about surface area and volume in chemical reactions.  We used bow/drills, trenches, and flint and steel (actual flint picked up in the parking lot and 1/4 inch steel rebar).  We tried all the usual suspects including cotton balls, dryer lint, bird nests and an assortment of natural tinder.  From those very informal tests we found that dryer lint was the lest effective in catching and holding a spark long enough get a flame.  Cotton balls were so so but required a lot of work.  There was one group that had their fire going almost immediately.  They were the ones using the 0000 steel wool.  I was 45 years old at that time, had been camping and starting camp fires for 35 of those years,  and had never even given a second thought to the idea that steel wool would burn.  It burns, and it burns very well.  The manufacturing process that creates steel wool uses a lot of oil.  The tiny fibers are coated with a thin film of oil and it is actually the oil that is burning and I'd imagine the steel does some oxidizing as well.  Steel wool stretched from one pole of a battery to the other will begin burning also.  

We never did get a fire started with the bow/drill or the trench.  Those methods require a perseverance and dedication to the task that was not present in my classroom.  But they did provide excellent demonstrations of how friction generates heat.

Oh, the final exam for our project was cooking and eating hot dogs and marshmallows.  

Alan

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I spent ten minutes writing a post. When I posted it a message came up on the screen that didn't stay long enough for me to read.  It began "Thank you for posting. Your post ….." then it went off and my post was gone….

Alan

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## hunter63

> I spent ten minutes writing a post. When I posted it a message came up on the screen that didn't stay long enough for me to read.  It began "Thank you for posting. Your post .." then it went off and my post was gone.
> 
> Alan


That may have been the spam software, nothing to do with you..... sometimes send posts to moderators to review....
After 10 posts a lot of that stuff stops getting in you way.... 
You are close...try again.....

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## crashdive123

Yep, it went to moderation.  That happens from time to time when you have less than 10 posts.  The post is now visible to all, and you shouldn't run into that issue again.  



If you do, it's Rick's fault.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Thanks. That's 11.  I'm home free now!

Alan

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## hunter63

> In another life I was a teacher.  For two years I taught 9th grade science to kids with learning/reading difficulties.  We did a lot of "hands on" science.  As part of a larger lesson, we used fire making to learn about surface area an volume in chemical reactions.  We used bow/drills, trenches, and flint and steel (actual flint picked up in the parking lot and 1/4 inch steel rebar).  We tried all the usual suspects including cotton balls, dryer lint, bird nests and an assortment of natural tinder.  From those very informal tests we found that dryer lint was the lest effective in catching and holding a spark long enough get a flame.  Cotton balls were so so but required a lot of work.  There was one group that had their fire going almost immediately.  They were the ones using the 0000 steel wool.  I was 45 years old at that time, had been camping and starting camp fires for 35 of this years,  and had never even given a second thought to the idea that steel wool would burn.  It burns, and it burns very well.  The manufacturing process that creates steel wool uses a lot of oil.  The tiny fibers are coated with a thin film of oil and it is actually the oil that is burning and I'd imagine the steel does some oxidizing as well.  Steel wool stretched from one pole of a battery to the other will begin burning also.  
> 
> We never did get a fire started with the bow/drill or the trench.  Those methods require a perseverance and dedication to the task that was not present in my classroom.  But they did provide excellent demonstrations of how friction generates heat.
> 
> Oh, the final exam for our project was cooking and eating hot dogs and marshmallows.  
> 
> Alan


And a good post it was...Good teaching tool.

That experience reflects most of these attempts.....and results are pretty much alike. 

It's tough to collect natural material and components.... in the wild, under all conditions in all locations....that work.

I like trying as many methods as I can....but I don't plan on depending on the real primitive ways ...unless I have to.

If you have to bring materials with you, dryer lint cotton balls, changa, fuzz sticks, fat wood......along with flint, ferro rods, steels, steel wool, para-pord, roller skate bearing for the bearing block....for bow drills 
 to get it to work...many people will not consider this a primitive methods...

Fact is,... early man carried his favorite gear, and methods with him for this reason......The same was we carry a Bic, Zippo, and road flares.

Just good to know different ways.

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## Rick

Dang it. Now I have to go delete one. And I'll bet my ice cream melts!

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## Antonyraison

Nice Teaching Alan,
that sounds like an awesome class, far better than any science class I attended.

I am rather lucky Where I live, the year round conditions make for awesome natural tinder
we usually have a dry arrid climate most of Southern africa, and our normal grass found anywhere, even elephant grass, works like a bomb, one spark from a ferro- rod On that grass gets you a flame very fast... we also have various trees whoms bark is very dry and fiberous, which well is good for cordage and tinder.
I have hardly found a place in South africa that I cant find something that will catch light with a ferro-rod, the only issue is if It has rained and things are damp and wet that it doesnt work, although slighty damp works okish with bow drill, just you really have to have a big coal and blow slowly for long, the coal dries out enough of the surface of the tinder for it to form even a bigger coal, eventually igniting. 
I been practicing  a lot with bow drill and yeah i have managed to make a set in the Magoebaskloof jungles of tzneen with materials I found there and got it to work, didnt have a roller blade wheel, but use my friends knife that had a bow drill divit..
we managed to get a fire rather quickly with that.
But yes, most primitive people would not just make a set on site or find the flint,etc
they generally always carry around a set that they always use from materials that they collected and processed beforehand... and take that.

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