# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Firearm purchase waiting period?

## rwc1969

I went to buy a rifle today and it was put on hold thanks to the background check.

What is the waiting period for a firearm purchase?

I have never had to wait before, more than 20 minutes or so, and thought it was instant check. The place I am purchasing from stated they hold it up to seven days waiting for a reply from the FBI and if they get no response they sell it to me anyway. They said it was placed on hold for identity confirmation. Eventhough I supplied my SS#, driver's license, state and city of birth, etc.

I thought the max time they could hold it was 3 days, but would like to know what the law on this is.

Thanks!

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## crashdive123

Not sure about the laws where you live.  In Florida with a CCW permit there is no wait for hand guns or long guns.

*Edit:*  Without a CCW permit it is a 3 day wait for hand guns and no waiting period for long guns.

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## Camp10

I had a friend go through this once also.  With him, there was something of interest (whatever that means) on his application. This gives them a time frame to re-check the info you provided.  If there is someone with a similar name, etc with a criminal record it may give a hold for the check.

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## red lake

Here in Canada when we want to buy a gun we can walk out of the store with it sameday. Registered and all.

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## Camp10

There is no waiting period here in Maine for either handgun or rifle/shotgun..unless there is something of question in the application.  I've never had to wait but I do know the one guy who had to.  I dont have a problem at all with a waiting period if it means that someone not allowed to own a gun cant get it.  My friend was able to buy the gun a few days later when he was cleared.

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## 2dumb2kwit

I know two guys, that have problems with background checks. For most people a back ground is instant approval. One of the two guys, has a very common name. (first, middle, and last) It normally takes a few hours, for his to clear. The other guy found out that there is another guy, with the same name as his, and born within two or three days of him, who has a long criminal history. It normally takes a few days, for his to clear.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Here in Canada when we want to buy a gun we can walk out of the store with it sameday. Registered and all.


 Here in the U.S., they try to make sure you're not a felon, before they let you walk out, with a gun. In most places, here, after that, it's no longer any of their business, as long as you don't break any laws with it.

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## red lake

We are pre-approved, like a mortgage. Once you have your PAL you are good to go, every time. If your status changes you may lose your PAL until such time as they see fit.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> We are pre-approved, like a mortgage. Once you have your PAL you are good to go, every time. If your status changes you may lose your PAL until such time as they see fit.


 Here, if you have a concealed carry permit, you are "pre-approved", but if you don't, you can just walk in, fill out one page of info/questions, and they call it in. (To the FBI, I think.) Normally it's an instant approval. (As long as you are not a criminal.)

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## 2dumb2kwit

> We are pre-approved, like a mortgage. Once you have your PAL you are good to go, every time. If your status changes you may lose your PAL until such time as they see fit.


 What really sucks, down here, is  that some states have crazy gun laws, compared to the other states. In some states, you have to be checked out, and have a card to even buy ammo. Some states say that your gun should almost never be loaded, etc., etc.

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## rwc1969

Well I'm not a criminal. At least not anymore!  :Frown:  I do have some 90 day misdeameanors from long ago. I know they are not a problem though because I've bought plenty of guns since and went thru the check each time. I have no drug charges, felonies, domestic abuse, charges that could result in more than 1 year incarceration, mental illness, dishonorable discharge, I have not renounced my citizenship, etc, etc.

I am somewhat against this policy, but do understand the need to check people out beforehand in this day and age. What I'm against is the fact that it's supposed to be an instant check thru NICS and in reality it isn't. It's up to a 3 day federal waiting period nationwide and even longer if the state or dealer you're purchasing from decides so. My dealer has decided 8 days is fair enough. Unless I get my gun in three days they most likely won't be my dealer anymore. I'll be checking with other dealers to see what their waiting period is.

I guess the thing I don't understand is if this is all done via computer then unless there is a server down somewhere I don't see why there's a hold up. If I was able to purchase 5 years ago I should be able to purchase today. I provided picture ID and social security number.

It just seems like it takes longer and longer each time I purchase. First couple a times it was instant, then a 20 minute to 3 day wait and now it's apparently a 3 to 8 day wait.  :Sneaky2: 

Here in Michigan there is no state ordered waiting period. In other states the waiting period is up to two weeks or so it appears. Apparently each state can set waiting periods if they so choose. 

Other than having a CCW permit is there any other way to speed the process? I saw a spot on the form for a pre-approval pin #. What's that all about? Is that for the CCW holders?

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## Sarge47

> What really sucks, down here, is  that some states have crazy gun laws, compared to the other states. In some states, you have to be checked out, and have a card to even buy ammo. Some states say that your gun should almost never be loaded, etc., etc.


That's the way it is in Illinois!  72 hours for a handgun & 24 hours for a long-gun.  And yes it has to be during buisness hours & not to close to closing time.  We don't have concealed carry as it keeps getting voted down.  And you beter have your FOID card (Firearms Owner Identification Card.) with you to buy ammo or even hold a firearm at the Sporting Goods Counter...I HATE THIS STATE!!!! :Smash:  :Smash:  :Smash:  :Smash:

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## Rick

If you think about it, there could be any number of legitimate reasons for the delay and none of them have anything to do with you. How many folks took Christmas money in today and bought a gun. Perhaps and larger than normal influx of requests, perhaps the server was down, perhaps the FBI folks are running short handed because of the holidays, perhaps they were busy reading posts on Wilderness-Survival.net. That's a pretty cool thing to do.

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## Ole WV Coot

I've heard the waiting period for folks that buy firearms is "Hold on I'll be back with the money if the ole lady will give it to me". Some men wait years, a few lucky ones don't. It is always cash, no checks or credit cards and can be sold while the first "buyer" is begging for the cash.

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## Sam

I live in MI and bought a pistol this last June, I had to go to the sheriffs department for papers to buy it. I waited 20 mins. and was good to go. 
-Sam

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## rwc1969

That's true Rick, according to the FBI website they are only closed on Christmas and open for business 17 hours a day, 7 days a week. I picked the day after christmas to buy, doh! It just makes me worry is all.

WV, I traded in my wife last year and am using the money I saved to buy this here rifle.  :Smile:

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## rwc1969

Sam, I guess in MI the state itself handles the handgun checks and NICS does the longarm checks.

I'm thinking my best bet would be to apply for a CCW, then I could avoid all this or so it sounds.

Does one have to purchase a handgun to have a CCW?

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## Sam

> Sam, I guess in MI the state itself handles the handgun checks and NICS does the longarm checks.
> 
> I'm thinking my best bet would be to apply for a CCW, then I could avoid all this or so it sounds.
> 
> Does one have to purchase a handgun to have a CCW?


 I am not sure I don't have a CCW permit. I have not put in for one.
-Sam

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## Camp10

A CCW card doesnt speed the process up any in Maine.  I know it is a pain, but be glad the waiting period it there!  It is much better than the laws that were in the works when it was adopted.  If you are worried about your info, it really does go away after the check has been approved.  The supreme court ruled on this early in the Bush admin because the guy before him wanted to hold on to that info.  Any card or waiting period now is because of the state you live in.  That is, if there is always a 3 day, 24 hour etc.  The 5 day wait is to give the ATF a chance to do the correct background check and only happens if there is some kind of a kick back with the info you gave them.  If you are not a felon, you have nothing to worry about with the delay.

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## aflineman

> I'm thinking my best bet would be to apply for a CCW, then I could avoid all this or so it sounds.


That depends upon the State. Here we still have to pay for (and go through) the background check, even with a CCW. The State has figured that they can (and do) make much more money that way. I have had to wait a few days for things to clear also. Had one dealer tell me that if I did not pass the check in three days, he would give me back my money (less the background check fee) and NOT sell me the firearm. Said he could not afford to take the chance of a problem (even though the LAW says he can give it to me after a few days). I received my firearms a couple of hours later, but I won't buy anything from that dealer again.
Anymore, I tend to buy/trade face-to-face and avoid the hassle.

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## Rick

RWC: Here are some links for you. 

http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-...0594--,00.html

http://apps.carryconcealed.net/legal...state-laws.php

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...654---,00.html

I would find it very odd if you HAD to have a pistol to have a CCW. Instead, the CCW would just allow you to carry it on you. It looks like MI is an open carry state, too. That sure gives you a lot more options when you are in the woods, which is about the only place I open carry.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> That depends upon the State. Here we still have to pay for (and go through) the background check, even with a CCW. The State has figured that they can (and do) make much more money that way. I have had to wait a few days for things to clear also. Had one dealer tell me that if I did not pass the check in three days, he would give me back my money (less the background check fee) and NOT sell me the firearm. Said he could not afford to take the chance of a problem (even though the LAW says he can give it to me after a few days). I received my firearms a couple of hours later, but I won't buy anything from that dealer again.
> *Anymore, I tend to buy/trade face-to-face and avoid the hassle*.


 Man, don't say that, out loud. NYC will be blaming you for their criminals having guns!

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## 2dumb2kwit

> RWC: Here are some links for you. 
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-...0594--,00.html
> 
> http://apps.carryconcealed.net/legal...state-laws.php
> 
> http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...654---,00.html
> 
> I would find it very odd if you HAD to have a pistol to have a CCW. Instead, the CCW would just allow you to carry it on you. It looks like MI is an open carry state, too. That sure gives you a lot more options when you are in the woods, which is about the only place I open carry.


 Now if we could do something about the open container laws....LOL :Innocent:

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## Rick

It's funny that you say that. When I first moved to Indiana it was perfectly legal to open carry in a vehicle but if your kid came into a bar to get you off to the pokey you would go.

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## crashdive123

When I first moved to Florida they had drive through liquor stores.  Not only could you buy a case of beer or your favorite bottle, but you could order a cocktail as well.

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## Rick

Oh yeah? Well, when I moved to Indiana.......

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## crashdive123

Soon after moving here the law changed.  Everybody could have an open container/drink except the driver. (yeah right).  I don't think that lasted too long - something about Federal highway funds.  Trust me - it is much safer driving in Florida now that drinking is not allowed while driving.  Now, if we could just do something about the Q-tips.

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## 2dumb2kwit

Back to gun purchasing laws... :Innocent: ....it still chaps my arse, that I can legally carry a concealed handgun in Va., but I can't buy a handgun from a gun dealer there. :Sneaky2: 

There is a Va. dealer that I see at the Va. gunshow's that has Romanian T-33's cheap. I would like to have one, but to pay for shipping to a NC dealer, and the transfer fee, would add close to $100 to a $200 gun. :Sneaky2:

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## BENESSE

> Man, don't say that, out loud. NYC will be blaming you for their criminals having guns!


No, we're not THAT dumb.
However, we expect a thorough background check if that means preventing one more certifiable nut from owning a gun.
I personally don't mind waiting. 
A. I have nothing to hide and B. The world won't come to an end if I don't walk out with the gun right then and there. 
So I have to wait say, 1, 2, 3 weeks...what earth shattering event is going to take place that I'll miss out on 'cause I don't have a gun?
Is an entire species of animals I wanna kill going to disappear during that waiting period? Is my life in danger from day to day where I need a gun for protection? I don't have those concerns in NYC but perhaps you do where you live. I can just be underestimating the dangers lurking out there.

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## rwc1969

It is interesting to learn how it works in other states or counties and I appreciate all the comments. Thanks for the links Rick.

We don't pay for it, well I'm sure it's figured into the price, unless we buy online, then we must get a local FFL dealer to submit the search for us and that can cost 25-40 bucks or so unless you know someone with an FFL. Then the search paerwork is faxed or mailed to the online dealer.

I believe we still have to submit to the background check if we have a CCW, but it pretty much comes back immediately approved. 

Unfortunately, I was a dumbass as a kid and have a record, however minor it may be it haunts me to this day. It haunts me for work as well. I'm getting the impression that if the initail check shows any history it is put on hold regardless just to make sure nothing new has accrued and slipped thru undetected by the "electric eye".

I guess I just miss the old days. I went into Meijer or Walfart on my eighteenth birthday and bought a 10/22. Signed for it, presented picture ID and it was handed to me along with 500 rounds of ammo and a spare clip. no trigger lock, etc. Went back within a year and purchased a Mossberg 500 and a Winchester 30/30. 5 or so years back I bought a Mini 30 and a Remington 870 combo. They did the check and it came back immediately. The 870 was put on hold, but came back within a few minutes while I waited and expressed my frustration to the guy behind the counter. Thinking back, I had previously bought a single shot 12 gauge from K-mart and it was put on hold, and if I recall correctly I had to wait overnight to get that one. I've bought and sold other guns during this time as well and must not have had a problem because I can't even recall all of them.

There just seems to be no rhyme or reason to the wait or whether or not it goes on hold. My record hasn't changed in probably 20 years now, but it still haunts me. 

I had considered going into the medical field, but was told my record might, would very likely, limit my chances of getting a job. It sucks! No wonder felons are likely to become repeat offendors. They can't get decent work and their rights as citizens are limited. It would be nice if after a certain time period this stuff could be dropped from people's records. 

BTW, I'm still waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Frown:

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## crashdive123

> No, we're not THAT dumb.
> However, we expect a thorough background check if that means preventing one more certifiable nut from owning a gun.
> I personally don't mind waiting. 
> A. I have nothing to hide and B. The world won't come to an end if I don't walk out with the gun right then and there. 
> So I have to wait say, 1, 2, 3 weeks...what earth shattering event is going to take place that I'll miss out on 'cause I don't have a gun?
> Is an entire species of animals I wanna kill going to disappear during that waiting period? Is my life in danger from day to day where I need a gun for protection? I don't have those concerns in NYC but perhaps you do where you live. I can just be underestimating the dangers lurking out there.


It seems that Mayor Bloomberg disagrees.  He has spent quite a bit of New Yorker's money sending law enforcement (illegally) to other states to try and place the blame someplace. 

http://www.nssf.org/newsroom/factsheets/bloomberg.cfm

While you may not mind waiting 1, 2, or 3 weeks to purchase a firearm --- I do.  It has nothing to do with hunting - I'm not a hunter.  It's not about personal protection - I've got that kind of covered already.  It's about the Constitution of the United States.  Many years ago, and several times since, I took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.  I still live by that oath.

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## Rick

I agree with Crash. In this day and age there is no reason to wait 1 week for a background check if you have previously purchased a weapon. You are already on file. The two or three day wait, if I remember correctly, was considered a cooling down period. It prevented someone from getting PO'd, going in and buying a weapon, then using it to shoot someone. The cooling down period was to give that person a chance to re-think their actions and to....cool down.

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## rwc1969

It's working in reverse for me Rick. :Sneaky2: 

But, on the bright side, unless I committed and got convicted or charged of a crime while sleepwalking unbeknown to me, I do still qualify for a CCW. I might just go for it now before they decide I don't.

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## Rick

The worst they can do is deny you. They might also keep a portion of the cost. If you want one then go for it. Then you'll know what you're dealing with if there is something there.

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## BENESSE

> It's about the Constitution of the United States.  Many years ago, and several times since, I took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.  I still live by that oath.


Me too, Crash. In principle.
There's still room for common sense solely based on the reality of what's happening now.

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## BENESSE

> I agree with Crash. In this day and age there is no reason to wait 1 week for a background check if you have previously purchased a weapon. You are already on file.


So what's the big deal if you need to wait a few days or a week?
If you're clean, you have nothing to worry about.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

WHAT are y'all talking about Deer season ends in 2 days!! I gotta' get one now or wait 'til next year!! :EEK!:  :Bawling:

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## crashdive123

Actually, I disagree.  If you believe in rights as outlined in the Constitution (not granted by it) there is very little wiggle room.  Look at all of the stupid things said every day (usually by political and Hollywood types), yet nobody is seriously suggestion that their free speech be curtailed.  As much as I believe that the Major in the Ft Hood shooting is guilty - I would not want to see anything but a fair trial.  Rights are rights.  Unless you are not entitled to the rights outlined by the Constitution, nobody should be allowed to infringe on them.

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## Rick

1. It's the principle. 
2. It's the inconvenience. 

As a gun owner I'm registered. The weapon I'm purchasing is registered. There isn't any reason for a waiting period. They know immediately if I'm clean or not. If I've suddenly become unstable then no amount of waiting will update their records for that. If I commit a crime the info is immediately available. So I don't understand the need. 

If you've never purchased a weapon before then we're talking about a steed of a different hue.

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## BENESSE

> If you've never purchased a weapon before then we're talking about a steed of a different hue.


Well, then paint me a different hue.
I have nothing to hide and I'm not in a hurry.
If that's a crime then I'm guilty as charged.
Personally, I've got bigger fish to fry.

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## LowKey

Cooling off periods? Why go buy another gun in the heat of the moment to shoot someone? If the guy already has a license to own a gun, wouldn't he already own one? Or do people get licenses just for kicks? 

Some of the rationale given for legal gun ownership regulations just don't make sense.

If you are approved for a license that's all that should be needed to go in and buy a gun or ammo. It shouldn't take more than an hour to run the check in this day and age.

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## BENESSE

> 1. It's the principle.


Oh yeah...
When they say it's the principle, it usually isn't.

Just a well established observation, not my own. But I agree.

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## Sourdough

You just don't understand...........Look that is why you need a real huge "Mother of all Survival Knives". See you use the huge survival knife to restrain them, (Say to a wall or the floor) till the cooling'off has expired. Then blow the snot'out-0f-Dem........ :Smile:

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## BENESSE

> You just don't understand...........Look that is why you need a real huge "Mother of all Survival Knives". See you use the huge survival knife to restrain them, (Say to a wall or the floor) till the cooling'off has expired. Then blow the snot'out-0f-Dem........


Oh I understand, Sourdough!
In fact this would be _my_ personal choice of Mother of all Survival "Knives" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s

The point was...
I've NOTHING to hide and I'm not in a hurry.
If you are, then that's something I'd like to know more about.
Call me nosy.

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## Camp10

> The point was...
> I've NOTHING to hide and I'm not in a hurry.
> If you are, then that's something I'd like to know more about.
> Call me nosy.


I have nothing to hide either but the sporting goods store that I buy my hunting gear at is about 85 miles away.  It is kind of a pain to go back in a few days.  I'm pretty sure sourdough has about the same or longer trip to a gun shop.

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## BENESSE

> I have nothing to hide either but the sporting goods store that I buy my hunting gear at is about 85 miles away.  It is kind of a pain to go back in a few days.  I'm pretty sure sourdough has about the same or longer trip to a gun shop.


I hear you.
It is a pain in the a$$ but it has some higher purpose.
Can't begin to tell you how many inconveniences I go through every day that have nothing to do with anything.
However, I'm more likely to put up with bull if it benefits the greater good.
Example: I wish they'd "profile" at the airport but since they don't, I allow extra time to get through and do what they tell me to do.
If this system catches one just person, then it's one more than they would catch if they didn't have the system in the first place.
Could the system be better? Heck yes! But for now this is it and I'm playing by the rules 'cause it doesn't cost me anything.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

How long does it take for a cop that has pulled you over to run your info and decide whether to let you go or arrest you? It SHOULDN'T take any longer than that to determine whether you are a person that is eligible to possess a firearm. That my dear is the point. When it is in their favor it is super fast info. When it is for your benefit you wait,and wait,and wait and then you wait some more. Same with the IRS if you owe them you better have that check in the mail by the deadline. But if they make a mistake they make you wait,and wait,....


 Basically it all comes down to the "Golden Rule" treat me the way you want to be treated,and vice versa.

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## crashdive123

Benesse - I really don't want it to sound as though I'm picking, but what higher purpose?

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## NightShade

In Mass you hafta jump thru hoops of flame and all types of other stuff to get licensed.
Once your licensed you pay and walk out the same day.. No waiting period.
Don't agree with waiting periods for people who are licensed and already own guns!

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## BENESSE

> How long does it take for a cop that has pulled you over to run your info and decide whether to let you go or arrest you? It SHOULDN'T take any longer than that to determine whether you are a person that is eligible to possess a firearm. That my dear is the point. When it is in their favor it is super fast info. When it is for your benefit you wait,and wait,and wait and then you wait some more. Same with the IRS if you owe them you better have that check in the mail by the deadline. But if they make a mistake they make you wait,and wait,....
> 
> 
>  Basically it all comes down to the "Golden Rule" treat me the way you want to be treated,and vice versa.



You are right, of course.
But aren't there bigger fish to fry? Is this really what you want to loose sleep over?
What's the worst that can happen if I wait a few extra weeks to get a gun? Sounds like I should be upset about it, but can't figure out exactly why.

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## Sourdough

> I'm not in a hurry.
> If you are, then that's something I'd like to know more about.
> Call me nosy.



BENESSE, Women have taught me to NOT be in a hurry.......Slow'man is a Good'man........ :Innocent:  :Smile:  :Innocent:

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## Camp10

I can understand and even sort of accept a wait on rare occasions when the check finds something in your form that sets up an alarm.  If you have filled out the form, you know that you have already answered the questions about criminal records, drug use, citizen requirements and have signed it to be true.  In all reality, it you are found to be not eligible then you are breaking the law just trying to get a gun.  I wish they would prosecute these people under the laws they already put into place.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

> You are right, of course.
> But aren't there bigger fish to fry? Is this really what you want to loose sleep over?
> What's the worst that can happen if I wait a few extra weeks to get a gun? Sounds like I should be upset about it, but can't figure out exactly why.


OK let's look at it another way. Suppose you had to wait to get flour? or Sugar?  COmputer? Car? this last one is the best one to use. You have a license and you have the money. You walk on the lot to buy your Dream mobile. They say we'll have to run a check on you and you will have to wait 2 weeks. Don't tell me people don't get killed by cars, without checking I'd say that more are killed by cars than all the shootings combined.

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## Camp10

> Benesse - I really don't want it to sound as though I'm picking, but what higher purpose?


Yeah, that and "greater good" kind of bother me!

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## BENESSE

> Benesse - I really don't want it to sound as though I'm picking, but what higher purpose?


Don't feel like you're picking at all, crash...
My feeling is that if just one certifiable loon (Ft. Hood, Virginia Tech.) gets denied a gun in the process of background checks , than I'm happy to wait for mine a few extra weeks.
That's really all I'm saying.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

> Don't feel like you're picking at all, crash...
> My feeling is that if just one certifiable loon (Ft. Hood, Virginia Tech.) gets denied a gun in the process of background checks , than I'm happy to wait for mine a few extra weeks.
> That's really all I'm saying.


That loon could have done even more damage with a beat up Jalopy,fertilizer and fuel. Yet those things are easy to buy, no waiting period at all.

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## nell67

> I hear you.
> It is a pain in the a$$ but it has some higher purpose.
> Can't begin to tell you how many inconveniences I go through every day that have nothing to do with anything.
> However, I'm more likely to put up with bull if it benefits the greater good.
> *Example: I wish they'd "profile" at the airport but since they don't, I allow extra time to get through and do what they tell me to do.*
> If this system catches one just person, then it's one more than they would catch if they didn't have the system in the first place.
> Could the system be better? Heck yes! But for now this is it and I'm playing by the rules 'cause it doesn't cost me anything.


Oh but they do,I have flown once,and will never do it agian,as I had to change planes in Charlotte NC going to and coming from Florida,at each airport I was in I was pulled aside for further special treatment while my son and daughter waltzed through each 'port with just the basic treatment,the difference?? They have blond hair,blue eyes and pale skin,I on the other hand,have dark hair/eyes and a slightly darker skin tone than they,just one of those quirky things that is common in those of INDIAN (as in NATIVE AMERICAN) decent,but enough to be "profiled" and singled out for futher examination.

Ahhh, the land of the free.......

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## NightShade

Err.. And how would waiting a week change the fact they were crazy?...

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## Rick

> Cooling off periods? Why go buy another gun in the heat of the moment to shoot someone? If the guy already has a license to own a gun, wouldn't he already own one? Or do people get licenses just for kicks? 
> 
> Some of the rationale given for legal gun ownership regulations just don't make sense.
> 
> If you are approved for a license that's all that should be needed to go in and buy a gun or ammo. It shouldn't take more than an hour to run the check in this day and age.


   No, in that case it is assumed the person has never owned a gun. 


“In order for a waiting period to prevent a crime of passion or rage, several criteria must be met. 


First, the person intent on committing the crime must not own or have access to a gun and there must be no other weapon available or acceptable to the potential offender.


Second, the person must have no record that would prevent him from legally obtaining a firearm.  Waiting periods would only apply to those who were willing to submit themselves to a background check and could successfully pass.  Others would choose another means to secure a gun.


Third, the potential assailant must seek to obtain the gun through a licensed dealer who would conduct the background check and institute the waiting period prescribed by law.


Fourth, some mechanism or rationale must cause the assailant to change his mind about committing the crime before the arbitrarily chosen “cooling off” period expired.  One would have to assume that the inability to obtain the desired weapon – a gun – would result in the desired behavior, rather than further enrage the individual.


In other words, advocates of cooling off periods assume that an individual enraged to the point of committing a violent crime would simply change his (or her) mind if he had to wait to obtain a firearm, that such a person would not consider an alternative method or weapon to carry out his criminal intent and that once denied immediate possession of a firearm, the irate offender would not seek to acquire one through some other means.”


Source:  http://www.keepandbeararms.com/infor...em.asp?id=1645

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## Camp10

> Oh but they do,I have flown once,and will never do it agian,as I had to change planes in Charlotte NC going to and coming from Florida,at each airport I was in I was pulled aside for further special treatment while my son and daughter waltzed through each 'port with just the basic treatment,the difference?? They have blond hair,blue eyes and pale skin,I on the other hand,have dark hair/eyes and a slightly darker skin tone than they,just one of those quirky things that is common in those of INDIAN (as in NATIVE AMERICAN) decent,but enough to be "profiled" and singled out for futher examination.
> 
> Ahhh, the land of the free.......


Well, you do seem a little dangerous :Smile:

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## Sarge47

WSF is now requiring a 3 day waiting period on all posters while we run a bacground check to see if you're sane or not.  Anybody found to be sane here will be banned on the spot!   :Innocent:  :Innocent:   :Sneaky2:  :Sneaky2:   :Drool:  :Drool:

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## Rick

> enough to be "profiled" and singled out for futher examination.


Well, yeah, that and the K-Bar you were carrying.

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## Camp10

> WSF is now requiring a 3 day waiting period on all posters while we run a bacground check to see if you're sane or not.  Anybody found to be sane here will be banned on the spot!


you mean that isnt already in effect?? :Smile:

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## nell67

> Well, you do seem a little dangerous


 GGGrrrrr,who you been talking to??? I thought I got rid of all the evidence and witnesses...... :Sneaky2:

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## nell67

> Well, yeah, that and the K-Bar you were carrying.


 My knife was in my checked luggage!

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## pocomoonskyeyes

As Rick has so eloquently said. A criminal doesn't really care about the law,or the registration,or even the waiting period.They will obtain a weapon no matter what restrictions you put in place short of one on one "Babysitters". Where there is a will there is a way. In Prison there are no firearms and no raw materials just laying around with a nice fully equipped shop to manufacture weapons. Yet they still manage a way to make deadly weapons out of Plastic drink lids!!

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## BENESSE

> OK let's look at it another way. Suppose you had to wait to get flour? or Sugar?  COmputer? Car? this last one is the best one to use. You have a license and you have the money. You walk on the lot to buy your Dream mobile. They say we'll have to run a check on you and you will have to wait 2 weeks. Don't tell me people don't get killed by cars, without checking I'd say that more are killed by cars than all the shootings combined.


Not quite the same. 
How about this?... the gist of the current mortgage crises.
People who weren't credit-worthy (shoddy or no credit checks done) got loans they couldn't afford to repay. They loose and so does everyone else by suffering the consequences.
Still paltry compared to a lunatic getting a hold of a gun, all because we didn't want to inconvenience some decent folks in waiting a little extra time to get theirs.
Would you still feel the same if you lost a loved one during a rampage that could have been prevented? The operative word being _prevented_.

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## Camp10

> GGGrrrrr,who you been talking to??? I thought I got rid of all the evidence and witnesses......


Yeah, once you get rid of all the witnesses, you are usually safe again!   :Smile: There is no way any of us with native blood could be trusted Americans, you know!!

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## Rick

I would truly hate for Crash to wind up in prison but my guess is it would go something like this. 

Huge Cell Mate: "Uh, what are you doing with my underwear?"
Crash: "Micarta."
Huge Cell mate: "Uh, okay. I like camo."

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## crashdive123

> Not quite the same. 
> How about this?... the gist of the current mortgage crises.
> People who weren't credit-worthy (shoddy or no credit checks done) got loans they couldn't afford to repay. They loose and so does everyone else by suffering the consequences.
> Still paltry compared to a lunatic getting a hold of a gun, all because we didn't want to inconvenience some decent folks in waiting a little extra time to get theirs.
> Would you still feel the same if you lost a loved one during a rampage that could have been prevented? The operative word being _prevented_.


I don't think your analogy is germaine, as owning a house is not a right (although I agree that there are those that feel it is) and laws that pilfer taxpayers (at the point of a gun I might add) is a bit different.  I know you were asking Poco - but if I ever lost a loved one during a rampage that could have been prevented had that loved one been allowed to carry a firearm, but was denied that right - you're darn tooting I'd be angry.

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## Rick

Benesse, I think you're overlooking one point here. The lunatic probably wouldn't be trying to purchase a weapon. Even if he was he wouldn't be detected unless he had been adjudicated and/or confined to a mental institution. Instead, his/her weapon would probably be "borrowed" from a relative or friend. Likewise, a convicted criminal isn't going to try to purchase a weapon either. So you wind up with law abiding citizens having to put up with ill conceived rules and regulations. 

Everyone on here wants to stop the criminal or mentally unstable person from acquiring weapons. Unfortunately, rules and regulations don't apply to them so some other means of enforcement has to be employed. For a great many that would mean serving out their entire sentences on lock down (Yeah, I'm an a$$, get over it). Then, perhaps, the criminals wouldn't be quite so quick to try it again.

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## BENESSE

> As Rick has so eloquently said. A criminal doesn't really care about the law,or the registration,or even the waiting period.They will obtain a weapon no matter what restrictions you put in place


Just because a criminal finds a way to defy law doesn't make a case against having laws in the first place.

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## crashdive123

> Just because a criminal finds a way to defy law doesn't make a case against having laws in the first place.


But having an individual Constitutional right to own firearms makes those laws that prevent ownership illegal.  That's what many of the challenges are all about right now.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

> Would you still feel the same if you lost a loved one during a rampage that could have been prevented? The operative word being _prevented_.


Even more strongly so as they might have been able to defend themselves. I put My life on the line so Americans can enjoy the liberties and rights that are due EVERY citizen. About a 200 year old piece of paper that most seem to have forgotten Gave that right.



> Just because a criminal finds a way to defy law doesn't make a case against having laws in the first place.


It's a stupid law when it adversely affects those it is supposed to protect,while not bothering those it was meant to catch.

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## Rick

> Just because a criminal finds a way to defy law doesn't make a case against having laws in the first place.


I would certainly agree with that. I wouldn't want to abandon laws against bank robberies because there are bank robbers.  However, there are some laws that are either self serving, wrong in their approach or blatantly illegal.

Case in point are the municipal laws banning gun ownership. They were either created to serve a personal agenda (anti gun), were wrong in believing that said law would lower crime and have been ruled unconstitutional. 

A waiting period misses the mark in what it was designed to do. If it offered some advantage or proved to be beneficial then I might be for it. As it is, I don't see any benefit to anyone.

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## Sourdough

I just don't understand the need for more than a few firearms:

1.) A Bedroom Gun

2..) A Kitchen Gun

3.) A Utility room Gun

4.) A Bathroom Gun

5.) A Garage Gun

6.) A Truck Gun

7.) A Dinning room Gun

8.) A Yard Gun

9.) A Upland Bird Gun

10.) A Waterfowl Gun

11.) A Small Game Gun



163.) A CCW Gun

164.) A Scoped Rifle Gun

Etc. :Smile:

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Not quite the same. 
> How about this?... the gist of the current mortgage crises.
> People who weren't credit-worthy (shoddy or no credit checks done) got loans they couldn't afford to repay. They loose and so does everyone else by suffering the consequences.
> Still paltry compared to a lunatic getting a hold of a gun, all because we didn't want to inconvenience some decent folks in waiting a little extra time to get theirs.
> Would you still feel the same if you lost a loved one during a rampage that could have been prevented? The operative word being _prevented_.


 Would you feel better if that loved one was killed with a knife?

You are working off of a false premise.

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## BENESSE

> Would you feel better if that loved one was killed with a knife?
> 
> You are working off of a false premise.


C'mon now, you kiddin' me?!
How far would have the Ft. Hood dickweed gotten with just a knife?

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## Sourdough

> C'mon now, you kiddin' me?!
> How far would have the Ft. Hood dickweed gotten with just a knife?



With knives they killed 2,900 humans 9-11-01 and those were only box cutters.

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## BENESSE

> With knives they killed 2,900 humans 9-11-01 and those were only box cutters.


Well now that's a WHOLE 'NOTHER story and a major detour.

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## BENESSE

> BENESSE, Women have taught me to NOT be in a hurry.......Slow'man is a Good'man........


Amen to that.
Indoor plumbing don't hurt either.

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## Ole WV Coot

Now I'm mad! I resent the fact that Bloomberg doesn't recognize that WV & KY supply all the guns to every city North of Atlanta. Everyone else blames us so I don't want anyone else to hog in on the blame. I worked in the fine cities of DC, NYC, Balt and the fine city of Newark when everyone got out of town at dusk. This was over a period of 15yrs on evening and nite shift for a utility company so I was in the alleys & on the streets. I was young, dumb and didn't care if it snowed oats but you can bet I never went anywhere, working or otherwise without a pistol, EK fighter or both. We folks from E. KY & WV have a reputation to uphold as being mean, nasty, dirty fighters and don't take nothin' from nobody and I did my darnedest to live up to it. My personal opinion is simple, this old Redneck don't go anywhere I can't use my God given right of self defense and the Constitutional right to carry a firearm. As to killing folks with a knife lots of men on this forum were taught to do just that and maybe some of us did and could very easily do it again. If you haven't no sermon please. I don't kiss rear ends or actually think I could get help if I needed it in an assault on city streets, think that has been documented. Uncle Sam gave lots of us guns to use, now we aren't smart enough to own one? Something is badly wrong with this picture.

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## aflineman

> No, we're not THAT dumb.
> However, we expect a thorough background check if that means preventing one more certifiable nut from owning a gun.
> I personally don't mind waiting. 
> A. I have nothing to hide and B. The world won't come to an end if I don't walk out with the gun right then and there. 
> So I have to wait say, 1, 2, 3 weeks...what earth shattering event is going to take place that I'll miss out on 'cause I don't have a gun?
> Is an entire species of animals I wanna kill going to disappear during that waiting period? Is my life in danger from day to day where I need a gun for protection? I don't have those concerns in NYC but perhaps you do where you live. I can just be underestimating the dangers lurking out there.


Is there a waiting period for a car, or a drink of alcohol? Those would make much more sense to me. Heck, how about a waiting period for candybars and Big Macs? Those cause no end of trouble for folks. What, can't wait to clog your arteries?  (And no BENESSE, I am not directing this at you personally. Just pointing at where it can lead if we allow and accept the precedent of it all).

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## rwc1969

Holy bajeebers!

I strongly support the constitution whether or not I feel I benefit from it. Our founding fathers had insight that many of us in this modern carefree age seem to have not. Maybe it's the water!

Benessee, benesse , benessee. I'm looking down and shaking my head in shame as I say this. "Didn't see a smiley for that so I had to spell it out". I don't know if you're just playing devil's advocate or what, but you really need to wake up. I think Ben Franklin was quoted as saying something about a little security in exchange for freedom. You outta look up that quote and consider what he was trying to convey. 

Considering the cost of maintaining a system and employees that run 7 days a week and 364 days a year I wonder what the cost is for preventing these possible gun crimes? It appears they have kept 700,000 guns from being sold out of 100,000,000. That's their #'s, the FBI, and roughly 0.7%. Considering it costs us 40 bucks to do a check, 40 X 100,000,000= 4,000,000,000! 4 billion dollars to prevent 700,000 firearms from being sold. That's $5714.29 per gun sale rejected. You can probably triple or quadruple that figure because it doesn't take into account the cost in taxes to support the NICS system and all it's employees. It doesn't account for the cost absorbed by each city, county and state that contributes to that system by submitting the info to keep it up to date. It doesn't account for man hours lost by police, FBI and other goverment folks who could be investigating or stopping actual crimes. 

If all that money and effort were put into something else would it benefit us more or less as a society? People die every day. Not very many per capita are from gun crimes. I'm pretty sure that money could be better spent somewhere else. :Sailor:  What do you think?

Out of the 7/10th's of a percent rejected how many would have used the gun in a crime? How many would have been caught by the police or FBI if they weren't tied up updating the NICS system and performing background checks? How many of those gun sales were denied because someone got caught for peeing in public or some other frivilous matter?. Yes, if you get convicted of peeing in public you are not allowed to legally own a firearm. I doubt the system would stop the Fort hood shooting either, in fact it didn't. Since it's inception has gun crime went down? 

These, and others, are the questions we may want to answer to really understand if the system is working or not.

This system was set up in a sympathy cry for Jim Brady, whose wife later turned around and bought a gun for her kid so he could avoid the background check. That's not right.

I really have no problem with the instant check as long as it was instant and many times it's not. I believe it was found to be unconstitutional by the federal courts, but it still exists. That, I don't agree with.

I just hope they call tomorrow and tell me to come get my rifle. If they do I'm gonna kill em all, squirrels that is. :phone:  :Drool:

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## rwc1969

> Just because a criminal finds a way to defy law doesn't make a case against having laws in the first place.


No, but it makes one helluva case for having laws that do, and enforcing them.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

Just a few pics that I felt were pertinent to this discussion.

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## AKS

rwc1969, I know what you're going through right now.  Something similar happened to me a couple of months ago.  I am active duty air force, never been convicted of a crime and have what some people would consider a lot of guns.  This military, that issues me a firearm every time I deploy, stationed me in New Mexico this summer.  Shortly after arrival I came across this pretty little 44 lever gun for a decent price.  I filled out all the paperwork, had all the required information, even had a copy of the orders stationing me here.  The guy at the counter called it in, hangs up the phone and tells me I can't have it. He said, "This has been happening a lot to the military guys buying guns around here.  Should take a day or two for 'them' to get back to us, we'll call you when you can come back and get it."  Needless to say, I was more than a little upset.  I have had more than a dozen firearm transactions with no denials or holds, have nothing but excellent ratings at work, have a clean legal record and all of a sudden I feel like a they are calling me a criminal because I want to buy another rifle.  Any way, it's just not right.  As was stated earlier in this thread, it only takes a few minutes to do a background check and if there is nothing unusual there is no reason to treat people guilty until proven innocent.

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## BENESSE

What on earth did I ever post to lead folks into thinking I was _against_ gun ownership?!!!
On the contrary.
I believe in the Constitution and ALL it's amendments and certainly plan on legally owning a gun myself. The only difference is that I don't have a problem with the time it takes to do a background check and can't understand why anyone would, unless there was some pressing need.

All my issues related to guns have to do with not prosecuting their criminal use to the fullest extent of the law. Everything else is less important and debatable, at least to me.
The "slippery slope" crutch so often used on everything emotionally charged seldom produces any real answers or solutions.

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## pocomoonskyeyes

> What on earth did I ever post to lead folks into thinking I was _against_ gun ownership?!!!
> On the contrary.
> I believe in the Constitution and ALL it's amendments and certainly plan on legally owning a gun myself. The only difference is that I don't have a problem with the time it takes to do a background check and can't understand why anyone would, unless there was some pressing need.
> 
> All my issues related to guns have to do with not prosecuting their criminal use to the fullest extent of the law. Everything else is less important and debatable, at least to me.
> The "slippery slope" crutch so often used on everything emotionally charged seldom produces any real answers or solutions.


I don't think anyone believes you are against gun ownership. I think it is just a matter of this fast paced society of instant self gratification that it has become... Except for when it comes to this particular Topic. Especially when some other things that you CAN buy are just as lethal or more so. I don't think that anyone has a problem with background checks. I believe that the ENTIRE problem is the amount of time that you wait *Unnecessarily*. If  you already have a gun why should you have to wait,say more than 2 hours? I recently bought a gun (I wasn't going to say this on a Public Forum at all) I waited a whole 5 minutes. I gave him the money and I walked out with a firearm. I haven't owned a firearm in many years, but it only took 5 minutes?(actually it wasn't that long,probably 2 or 3) RWC has been waiting how many HOURS? More than 24 that is for sure. Why the difference? Granted mine is just a little plinker a .22. But still it is a firearm nonetheless.

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## BENESSE

> No, but it makes one helluva case for having laws that do, and enforcing them.


I've often said the same.
So why not get mad about lax law enforcement and try to do something about that? 
Where are those pitch forks when yet another child molester gets released from prison with all the evidence showing he can't be reformed and will act again? 
I suppose among all the rights we enjoy it's also the right to be p'offed about anything we choose.

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## BENESSE

> I haven't owned a firearm in many years, but it only took 5 minutes?(actually it wasn't that long,probably 2 or 3) RWC has been waiting how many HOURS? More than 24 that is for sure. Why the difference? Granted mine is just a little plinker a .22. But still it is a firearm nonetheless.


I know, it makes absolutely no sense poco. 
And just because I don't get bent out of shape on that one doesn't mean that someone else doesn't have the right to.
I have to remind myself once in a while that not everything is important to everyone to the same degree.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> BENESSE 
> Senior Member
> 
> 
> Join Date: Jul 2009
> Location: NYC
> Posts: 647 
> 
> *Now wait a minute, y'all...*



(Snicker, snicker) You said "y'all"! (Snicker, snicker) :Innocent:

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## BENESSE

> (Snicker, snicker) You said "y'all"! (Snicker, snicker)


Don't let this come as a shock now, but I spent half of my life in the South. As in "y'all come back now, y'hear!" South.

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## TomChemEngineer

Georgia lets you fill out the one-page application (no SSl required) and answer all the normal questions about felonies, mental condition...maybe 15 questions in all, with your name and address and DOB, and it is checked while they are boxing up your purchase. The Georgia Firearms Permit (the Georgia name for a Concealed Carry Permit) speeds the process, but is not required. You walk out of the shop with your purchase. Rifle, Shotgun, or Handgun...all the same.

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## Rick

The only thing required in Indiana is your drivers license. Same as you, something like 15 questions or so. They call it in, get the okay on the phone and off you go.

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## hunter63

> The only thing required in Indiana is your drivers license. Same as you, something like 15 questions or so. They call it in, get the okay on the phone and off you go.


Wisconsin, same thing for long guns, three day wait for hand guns,(been this way for a while).

I don't have a problem with it......,maybe I should.

I think that we have tendency to blindly accept stuff like this, a little at a time, till the time comes, that private fire arms ownership will be a thing of the past.

Seems like a lot of little things, waiting, cc laws, ammo laws, (age), etc keep adding up till it's to late to stop it.
So the fight will continue, logic has nothing to do with it.

Example WI has a "open carry" but not a lawful "concealed carry".

I guess I should follow this a lot closer.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> The only thing required in Indiana is your drivers license. Same as you, something like 15 questions or so. They call it in, get the okay on the phone and off you go.


 Va. and NC are pretty much like that, but you need a second ID. (Not really an ID, but something else with your name address on it.) In Va this is good for long guns and hand guns. (But you can only buy 1 hand gun every 30 days.) In NC, you have to get a permit, to purchase a hand gun. You go to your local LEO office and fill out basically the same form...they do the same background check (NICS, or what ever it is.) as a dealer calling it in, and give you your permit. Of course it cost $15 for the background check, and $5 per permit. (You can get up to 5 at a time.) If you have a CC permit, you don't have to get the permit, or background check.
(And if they are busy....it will take 7 to 10 days to get your purchase permit from local LEO.)

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## rwc1969

The SS info is not required, but recommended to speed the process. I provided it willingly in hopes of speeding the process. It didn't work, but alas the gun, or properly, rifle is mine. Ruger 10/22 carbine. Tried and true and 100% Red, white and blue! 

I asked the dealer if they knew when it was approved and they said "no we checked it this afternoon when you called to inquire". They told me they would keep checking and call me as soon as it's approved. They never called! I had to call them. The person who I first dealt with was a real winner and I don't doubt that his ineptness and lack of enthusiasm for his job helped the delay on my part. I made sure to let the guy I dealt with last year, who checked me out today know, and he just shook his head as if it were no big surprise.

The last thing I have to say is I purchased this same rifle just before the NICS thang went into effect and it was 129.00. Today it was 233.00 with tax. I'm sure a good part of that cost is in taxes and fees associated with the NICS system and firearm mfg. CYA. 

I don't feel I should have had to wait two days to get a long arm, but I did get it and now I'm a happy well armed camper.

Time to go kill some squirrels. She's all cleaned up and ready to rock.

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## SARKY

Ms Benesse, The problem is this 1. a criminal (by his/her very definition) does not obey laws.
2. If a person is a felon or is certified mentally deranged then yes they can't own a firearm
3. That damm slippery slope, They are now asking vets at the VA if they feel stressed etc. If you answer yes to any of those questions you can be deemed unfit to own a firearm. (tell me this isn't a way to keep vets from owning firearms)
4. If you have a well armed populace then those who aren't armed benefit because the people who would prey on them don't know who is armed and who is not.
5. The DAMM GOVERNMENT needs to get out of the propaganda business and that includes the piece of crap RINO Bloomberg. They LIE!
6. go to the CDC site and look up deaths then tell me what items should be regulated by the number of deaths they cause.
7. Here in CA I can't own any number of guns because of the way they look, not that they are machine guns or actual assault weapons (by definition an assault weapon must be selectable to full automatic fire) . Does that make sense?
Lastly there are no real consequenses for the criminal actions of these criminals, you know, the ones they (govt) want to protect us from by banning and restricting our inalienable RIGHTS.

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## Rick

> They are now asking vets at the VA if they feel stressed etc. If you answer yes to any of those questions you can be deemed unfit to own a firearm. (tell me this isn't a way to keep vets from owning firearms)


Given the huge number of vets that have committed suicide (and sometimes taken others with them) could it be they are genuinely trying to identify and help those in need? I'm going to send you a case of anti-conspiracy pills. They are quite large and hard to swallow but if it gets stuck in your throat you forget all about conspiracies. If it goes down okay then you'll feel great. You'll have a taste for raw oats and the desire to whinny but you'll feel great.

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## rwc1969

Conspiracy and paranoia are all about perspective.

The squirrels think I am conspiring against them. I think the squirrels are paranoid. I'm not conspiring against them at all, just trying to "kill" them.

I guess the same is true for any conspiracy.

Some people think the government is trying to take away their guns. The government thinks some people are paranoid. They're not conspiring against them at all, just trying to "protect" them.

Conspiracies do exist and most are brought on by paranoia. Some are brought on by these guys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybIXi...eature=related

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## redpop

I was told nearly the same thing; the NICS has 72 hours to deny; after that the dealer CAN sell you the weapon. Now, whether they WILL or not might be another thing. Lady in gun dept at Walmart TOTALLY unaware of such protocols. Send help. Is this accurate?

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## Rick

"If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after 3 business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must note “no resolution was provided within 3 business days” on line 21d of the ATF Form 4473. (Please refer to pages 
24 and 25 of the FBI NICS FFL User Manual.)"

Page 218

http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5300-4.pdf

I would think most dealers would call back to NICS just to CYA.

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## chinookpilot77

I had this same issue a few weeks ago.  I was kind of dumbfounded by it, and concerned.  I've bought several fire arms over the past few years and never once had this issue.  Not sure what its about.  Hopefully doesn't happen the next time!

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## Rick

I'm not surprised by increased delays. Sales of firearms have gone through the roof and that means the NICS checks have increased as well. I don't know if any headcount has been added on their end or not but even the automated process can get bogged down if you dramatically increase requests.

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## LowKey

Are either of you by any chance in states that have fingerprint readers?
MA is currently in the process of removing the fingerprint readers from the state NICS system because the technology is old and only works with WinXP computers, changing to the PIN system instead. But as all things MA, the process is slow and possibly causing more delays, though they insist it will be faster and allow for Gun Show checks (um yeah, we already have gun show checks.)

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## Rick

I'm not. The only thing you need fingerprints for in Indiana is the CCW background check. We don't do fingerprints for a weapon purchase.

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