# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Mosin Nagant 91/30

## hunter63

FYI
Gander Mountain has a sale on right now on the Nagants 91/30's. $99.95
Been watching them and were at $149.95 at Christmas, lately $129.95, now on sale.
This is about the lowest I seen in a couple of years.
So, of course I had to bring one home, darn things are addicting.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> FYI
> Gander Mountain has a sale on right now on the Nagants 91/30's. $99.95
> Been watching them and were at $149.95 at Christmas, lately $129.95, now on sale.
> This is about the lowest I seen in a couple of years.
> So, of course I had to bring one home, darn things are addicting.


 Yeah, you need to get one from each maker....then one from each year...round receiver, hex receiver...then ones with multiple year stamps...oh, and then you can get into the ones that have been "Finned".

 Don't forget, about the "sniper" versions. They open up a whole new can of worms! LOL :Tongue Smilie:

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## 2dumb2kwit

Hey Hunter...let us know, when you start doing this with it!!! :Tongue Smilie: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2M1hC4c0tc

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## BLEUXDOG

Bet it won't involve chipmunks!!! :Innocent:

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## hunter63

> Yeah, you need to get one from each maker....then one from each year...round receiver, hex receiver...then ones with multiple year stamps...oh, and then you can get into the ones that have been "Finned".
> 
>  Don't forget, about the "sniper" versions. They open up a whole new can of worms! LOL


Yeah I know, it's a dark lonely job, but some one has to do it.
The "Finned" Carbine was the M39, action by SAKO, now looking...........

My little range is maxed at about 250 yds, 1000 meters would be cool, but need a lot more room, (Oh Honey, need to buy more land........., and a skid steer would be nice)

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## 2dumb2kwit

> My little range is maxed at about 250 yds, 1000 meters would be cool, but need a lot more room,


 I've done both. 250 yds doesn't hurt my feelings, near as bad as 1,000 does. :Blushing:  LOL

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## hunter63

Here is the sales flyer:
http://gandermountain.shoplocal.com/...&pagenumber=12

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## hunter63

You are correct.
There were several variations based on just about every model that was left behind when Finland declared their independence, and took over the armouries.
Some were even made by Remington.
Good history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E...Nagant#Finland

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## Rick

So what's the story on the Russian rifle? Can you order that online or do you have to pick it up at the store? Does anyone know if it's a decent firearm?

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## 2dumb2kwit

> So what's the story on the Russian rifle? Can you order that online or do you have to pick it up at the store? Does anyone know if it's a decent firearm?


 I think they are about as rugged and dependable as anything you will ever find. (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.lol) It has to be hands down, the best firearm value, today.

 As far as shipping it, I can't answer, but it is the same as a new rifle, as far a the law goes. (Few of them are old enough to be called antiques.)

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## Rick

I guess I'll call Gander tomorrow and see if they have any in stock. I'll just find out for myself. 

(thank you)

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I guess I'll call Gander tomorrow and see if they have any in stock. I'll just find out for myself. 
> 
> (thank you)


 If you need some ammo...

..how about 880 rounds for less than $170? LOL :Tongue Smilie: 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=555116

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## Rick

Okay, so I called today. They out in my local store but he said to call on Friday. More will be in. 

Here's a site for parts. 

http://www.buymilsurp.com/mosin-nagant-c-2.html

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## hunter63

Rick, if you do have a local store, they can find one and ship it in.
Here's the info for Internet purchases.
http://www.gandermountain.com/gunsmi...rchasing.shtml

We are fortunate in have a local store, the original mail order store was about 15 miles from here in Wilmot, WI.
Also had the "outlet store' where returns, outdated stock and deals could be had.

I really miss that store, bought 4 Tasco 3 X 9 scopes, for $20 buck apiece, should have bought the whole pallet.............Oh well.

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## Rick

I have a store about 15 miles from me as well. That's where I called. I asked what the barrels looked like and he said some were good and some not quite as good so really like to see what I'm buying. If they come in Friday I can run over there and take a look. 

I have to go. I have to burn my neighbor's houses down so I have a kill zone. How are you supposed to shoot anything with all these houses in the way. Sheeeesh.

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## hunter63

> I have a store about 15 miles from me as well. That's where I called. I asked what the barrels looked like and he said some were good and some not quite as good so really like to see what I'm buying. If they come in Friday I can run over there and take a look. (Famous last words, LOL)
> 
> I have to go. I have to burn my neighbor's houses down so I have a kill zone. How are you supposed to shoot anything with all these houses in the way. Sheeeesh.




I hear ya, been itching to get out to the cabin, seems obligations are space out just enough to keep me in town.

When I do, I have a winters worth of brought back to life older toys, new loads, and just a need for recoil.

Careful, I know how you are on stoves, these pieces of history are very addicting as well.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I have a store about 15 miles from me as well. That's where I called. I asked what the barrels looked like and he said some were good and some not quite as good so really like to see what I'm buying. If they come in Friday I can run over there and take a look. 
> 
> I have to go. I have to burn my neighbor's houses down so I have a kill zone. How are you supposed to shoot anything with all these houses in the way. Sheeeesh.


 When you come home with your new addition, here is the motherload of info, about Mosins.

Enjoy!   http://7.62x54r.net/

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## Rick

Man oh, man, oh man. You sure were right about the mother load. Thanks! Is this Russian made ammo corrosive stuff? I've read some of the threads you guys have posted about scrubbing barrels with soapy water, etc. I really don't want to get into that but $99 bucks!?

I assume the 7.62X54 is a decent deer caliber (?)

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Man oh, man, oh man. You sure were right about the mother load. Thanks! Is this Russian made ammo corrosive stuff? I've read some of the threads you guys have posted about scrubbing barrels with soapy water, etc. I really don't want to get into that but $99 bucks!?
> 
> I assume the 7.62X54 is a decent deer caliber (?)


 Yes, it's corrosive, but it's not that big of a deal. Spray a little windex down the barrel, and the ammonia neutralizes the salts. (Or you could buy more expensive ammo) I just use a cleaner that has ammonia in it, and clean mine like I would any other rifle.

 7.62x54R is the same caliber as .308 or .30-06. Power wise it's close to a .30-06. Keep in mind that the surplus ammo is FMJ and is not legal to hunt with, in most places. (SP ammo is commercially available.)

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## hunter63

> Man oh, man, oh man. You sure were right about the mother load. Thanks! Is this Russian made ammo corrosive stuff? I've read some of the threads you guys have posted about scrubbing barrels with soapy water, etc. I really don't want to get into that but $99 bucks!?
> 
> I assume the 7.62X54 is a decent deer caliber (?)


Thanks for the site 2D, I have that one on my old hard drive, and have printed out arsenal marking to take to the store with me.
That is a real cool site, even has info on I.D. marking, on all the accessories.

7.62 x54r is a very good cal for deer, close to a 30-06 in ballistics, but I favor soft point ammo, which is more expensive, but available.

Surplus ammo is mostly non-re loadable, due to the Berdan type primer, (too small holes, no anvil, in the primer pocket) and has corrosive powder.
Generally no more of a problem than a muzzleloader.

Ammonia is generally used to neutralize any corrosives, than normal cleaning.
I am told that a field cleaning was pizzing down the barrel, then cleaning, can't say I have tried it.

But hey, for the price, make a day at the range, a lot more affordable than say, $40+/- bucks a box for some of the ammo out there.

What they were/are is a "lance that shoots", and have a historical back ground that covers a lot of years, back to the day when lancers were still part of an army.

I kinda look at them as a Bic 30-06, lots of bang for your buck.................

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I kinda look at them as a Bic 30-06, lots of bang for your buck.................


 'Zactly....with cheap refills! LOL

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## randyt

ok i'm a fan too.  i use USGI corrosive bore cleaner for cleaning. some how i ended up with a few gallons of the stuff. the corrosive cleaner needs to be scrubbed out to, i usually use hoppes. the berdan primed stuff can be reloaded but the challenge is to get the primers. i don't know if old western scrounger has berdan primers or not. i have a berdan primer decapper, it's a wicked looking affair that hooks around the rim and then a small spike is used to dig out the primer. i can post a picture if interested.

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## hunter63

> ok i'm a fan too.  i use USGI corrosive bore cleaner for cleaning. some how i ended up with a few gallons of the stuff. the corrosive cleaner needs to be scrubbed out to, i usually use hoppes. the berdan primed stuff can be reloaded but the challenge is to get the primers. i don't know if old western scrounger has berdan primers or not. i have a berdan primer decapper, it's a wicked looking affair that hooks around the rim and then a small spike is used to dig out the primer. i can post a picture if interested.


Hello, I'm randyt, and I have a problem.............
I hear ya,
Yeah, a pic of the deprimer would be cool, can't say if I ever have seen one.

I don't think I will be re-loading any surplus ammo any time soon, baut I have been saving the brass cases, not the steel.

I did buy a Lee loader for the 7.62X54r, should have just bought the dies and got it over with............oh well.

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## Rick

One of the links on the site 2D posted said Hopps #9 was fine for cleaning the bore because it's made for corrosive powder. That's about all I've ever used to clean my guns.

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## randyt

here's the pict of the de-capper for berdan primers. the cartridge is a 44 bb for size comparisons. the hook part is hooked over the rim and then it is cranked down and the primer is dug out. i'm think rcbs sells a de-capper like this one.

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## hunter63

Thanks, Randyt, I never seen one of those, pretty cool. I sure if there is a way to do it someone already has figured it out.
That's part of the fun, the quest for knowlage.

Most re-loading manuals call for a .308 bullet, but need to "slug the bore" if you get into serious re-loading.

Slugged mine and it's inconclusive at .308 to .311.
So far I'm shooting the original surplus ammo, with no plans to re-load at this point.
Having the ability is a good thing, though.
I mostly try for Min. of paper plate, @ 100yds on these old war horses, so I don't think bullet dia would be a big deal, in most appaclations.

AS, Norma is pretty pricey, but top of the line, and lets face it, one shot, one kill should last a couple of years.
I do have some made by Remington that are soft points, and some by Sellier & Bellot soft point.
Norma is also a good source for brass, but again pretty pricey.

Bulk prices are still reasonable: One source
http://www.cabelas.com/p-00659452168...roduct-reviews

These appear to be brass cased, re-loadable.

I don't really plan on hunting with mine, other options available, but if you were, there is ammo out there.

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## hunter63

> I slug both ends then full lenght to get wear measure before I ever put any serious work into an accurate rifle.


I guess you could, I just don't spend the time and effort on these rifles.
They are just for fun. Lots of smoke and fire, especially out of the carbines.

I use the big city boy sight-in method. 
Buy one, buy some shells, take it out, pace off a good distance, and wail away at a 5 gal bucket, if I hit it more often then not, then it's good.
Don't use stop signs though..........

Serious work is spent on the hunting rifles, in the quest for the magic load.

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## Rick

I'm so ticked at Gander Mountain. I called the local store Wednesday and they said a truck would be in today. I called back today and asked about the 91/30. Yeah, they got one. One? How many did you order? They only get what HQ sends them. But I want 2 of them. Can't help me. You can't order the blasted things on line you can only buy them at the store but none of the stores have any idea how many they are getting until they arrive. I'm waiting on the local store to call me back because their @#$# computers were down and they couldn't enter the rifle into their system so they could sell it to me. THEN, I have to start calling the other stores to find another one. 

Now is that any way to run an airline?

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## Rick

Finally! I finally picked up a 91/30 from the local store around noon today. They finally got their system back on line this morning and had the rifle waiting on me when I called. I've spent the bulk of the afternoon cleaning cosmoline. I'm certainly a long way from an expert but I am pleasantly surprised with the overall quality. Not only does the bore look really good (clean with no pitting) but the furniture looks good, too, as do the accessories. I've ordered some ammo so I can play.

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## Rick

> I'm certainly a long way from an expert


Uh, are you being facetious?

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## Rick

Thank you. I had the bolt out but didn't tear it down. I appreciate the information.

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## crashdive123

Woo Hoo!  Hey Ken - Rick has a new squirrel gun. (OK it may be a wee bit on the over kill side for squirrels)

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## hunter63

> Thank you. I had the bolt out but didn't tear it down. I appreciate the information.


Congrats, you are now bitten, very contagious.

Your going to want to, mine was full of cosmoline around the firing pin.
AS is correct, you can do it with out tools.
As you pull out the bolt, it cocked.
Need to pull back the hammer (round thing) and de-cock it, the front part of the bolt will come apart with a 1/4 turn twist, then unscrew the rod using the slide as a wrench.
When putting back together, make sure the -0- marks on the hammer pull lines up with the pin.
Good reference vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8427QopLs

Safety is kinda tricky, when loaded and cocked, pull the hammer pull back and turn to the left and hook it on the side.

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## Rick

Thanks, Hunter. That was a great video. I'm going to pull it and check to see if it has cosmo in it, too. On the second rifle, yeah, I was on the phone this afternoon with Gander Mtn. They are looking for a second one for me.  :Blushing:

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## hunter63

> Thanks, Hunter. That was a great video. I'm going to pull it and check to see if it has cosmo in it, too. On the second rifle, yeah, I was on the phone this afternoon with Gander Mtn. They are looking for a second one for me.


I hear ya, poor little things get lonely, they have always been with others for, oh, 60 plus years or so.
Have fun.

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## randyt

there are lots a flavours when it comes to mosins. i had a westinghouse that was converted to 30 06, i presume by bannerman. any ways i decided to convert it back to 762 Russian being the action is marginal for ought six. so i lucked out and found a westinghouse barrel at numrich arms and bought it and forgot all about it. then i ended trading off the rifle and a few years later i found the barrel. i felt like such a bone head. 

in my junk there is a mosin with a 06 springfield barrel fitted up to it. in the process of fitting up the chamber is way short, the intention was to chamber it to 30-30. this was something my dad started and didn't ever finish. i've been thinking about finishing it up for funnsies. just need to find the time.

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## Rick

Well, thanks again guys. The bolt was pretty clean with very little cosmo inside but the metal is bright and shiny. By the way, no one mentioned pinch points. I'm sure that was an oversight. So let me mention it. OW! SHOOT! 

Here's a great vid on adjusting the firing pin. It sure helped me. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aUoLZ1OweM

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## Rick

According to the markings, mine is an Izhevsk (Soviet Union) 1938.

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## hunter63

That's half the fun, seeing and holding history in your hands, knowing it's still very useable.
How many other things do you have made in 1938 that still work? And cost $100 bucks?

Now when ever your watching the History Chanel and the are WWI, or WWII battles going on, you will be picking out the different firearms, wondering if it's the one in your case.

What ever you do, stay away from muzzle-loaders..........Thats a whole 'nother world!

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## Rick

I actually did that very thing last night. I was watching the military channel and they had a Russian soldier from early in WWII. He was holding a 91/30. I thought, "Hey! I bet that's my rifle!" LOL. The odds are pretty good. 1 in 9 million. That's better than the lottery or that the health care plan will work.

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## Rick

Well, I bought another one. I have a whole rant saved up for Gander Mountain, those bums. I sent a their VP Sales a letter today. But!!.....I found some here:   http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=12  For $79.00  I also picked up 300 rounds of ammo. The great thing is the ammo comes with original Polish stripper clips, which seem to be pretty rare. All I've been able to find are the cheapo's that don't work.

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## hunter63

Cool, did you have to ship it?
There site also has the MM Czech Mauser's, used to have one of those, bolt pulled straight back then straight forward, cool, but scared the carp out of me.

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## Rick

Yeah, they are doing a dealer transfer for me. I'll probably pick it up next week.

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## 2dumb2kwit

Dang, Rick.....I got so excited reading this thread, youda thunk I got a new mosin. (New to me, not New England Westinghouse (N.E.W)) LOL

 I can't wait, for the first range report! :Tongue Smilie:

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## Rick

I picked up 300 rounds of Polish sealed in a can. They come on stripper clips so I'll have a bunch of original ones.

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## crashdive123

> I picked up 300 rounds of *Polish* sealed in a can. They come on stripper clips so I'll have a bunch of original ones.


The ammunition, the sausage, or the people?

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## 2dumb2kwit

Does a polish stripper put her clothes on, when the music starts? :Innocent:

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## Rick

Polish. To keep my rifle polished. Stripper clips are short movies about strippers. Do I have to explain everything to you guys?

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Polish. To keep my rifle polished. Stripper clips are short movies about strippers. Do I have to explain everything to you guys?


 Wait....you payed a stripper $100 to polish your gun??? :Innocent:

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## 2dumb2kwit

Rick, I'm sure that you have done this, but just for the record.....clean the chamber really, really good. A lot of Mosin newbies have a problem with sticky bolts. Most of the time, (almost all.) the cause is cosmoline in the chamber. (That stuff is he!!, after you melt it, and then it cools.) LOL

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## 2dumb2kwit

Still waiting for that range report. :Whistling:

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## hunter63

> Wait....you payed a stripper $100 to polish your gun???


No sir I'm not gonna, not gonna, not gonna...................

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## Icemancometh

I love my unissued M44, got it for $72 about 3 years ago.

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## Rick

I picked up the second one yesterday and spent 3 hours cleaning that thing. It had to be the last rifle packed that day and the packer needed to get rid of the cosmoline. Hoowee it was full. Same arsenal but this one is a 1942 model. 

2 questions for you. 

I found a site offering a good price on 7.62x54mmR

1. Isn't that a different round than 7.62x54R? I read the mm was the first smokeless round or something to that effect and the 54R came later. Is that right? 
2. Are they interchangeable? I guess the mm has me confused.

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## 2dumb2kwit

I'm confused, too. I've seen 7.62x54mm (Not rimmed) and 7.62x54R (rimmed). I'm not sure what 7.62x54mmR is. I would think it's 54R, but I would call and ask, to be sure.

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## 2dumb2kwit

Rick, If you have questions that us dummies here can't answer, this is where the knowledgeable Mosin collectors hang out.

http://forums.gunboards.com/

 Scroll down to "the collectors forum- mosin nagant HQ".

Also, if you scroll further down, there is the "Ammo bunker."

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## 2dumb2kwit

Now...if you had some of that ammo in your hand...

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID.htm

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## Rick

I sent them an email but they didn't answer my first question. They just said it's inter-changeable. Well, it's not their butt that will be out there pulling the trigger but they ARE the ones making a sale so I thought I'd get a second opinion....on the ammo.

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## hunter63

I believe that they are the same cartridge as well.
Seems that the size is 7.62x54mm, the the R was added to signify "Rimmed", not Russian as some believe.

Little more info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x54mmR

They also have pic's of the case.
Seems there is a heavy load, 187+/- and a 147+/- gr as well as others.
I sure they will shoot differently, but then again they arn't gonna be shooting a sub moa group anyway.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I believe that they are the same cartridge as well.
> Seems that the size is 7.62x54mm, the the R was added to signify "Rimmed", not Russian as some believe.
> 
> Little more info.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x54mmR
> 
> They also have pic's of the case.
> Seems there is a heavy load, 187+/- and a 147+/- gr as well as others.
> I sure they will shoot differently, *but then again they arn't gonna be shooting a sub moa group anyway*.


 A friend of mine, did this with my 91/30. (Top right target.(The squares are 1")) He's a much better shot than I am, and he has much younger eyes.

 This was at 100 yds. He was sitting at a picnic table, with the rifle layed over an ammo bag.

(And yes...that's a hole, in the center.)

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## 2dumb2kwit

Now, before anyone thinks that I have lost it...let me say that, yes...I'm pretty sure it was a fluke. He really did it, but I seriously doubt it could be repeated. Keep in mind, that it was with open sights, also. (Not to mention that I don't think most surplus 54r ammo will shoot that tight of groups.) LOL :Tongue Smilie: 

 I can shoot a 1" group with it at 30 yds. LOL (Actually, I thought that was pretty good.) :Innocent:

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## Rick

Well, I bad mouthed Gander Mountain in the post above for their extreme lack of customer service. I sent a letter (yes, it was a nice letter) to their VP of sales outlining the problem and what my preferred expectations were. Late this afternoon I received a call from the local Gander Mountain store and they said they had a Mosin Nagent in with my name on it if I wanted it and it was at the original sale price. 

So I now have a third Mosin Nagent. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.  :Blushing:

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## crashdive123

Sooooo - is Safe Zone about to add a firearms section to the store?

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## Rick

Ha! Yeah, Russian parts. LOL.

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## 2dumb2kwit

That's good to hear,....but are you ever going to shoot one of those old war-horses??? :Innocent:

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Ha! Yeah, Russian parts. LOL.


Pssssst.......I have some American Mosin parts. Original, perfect condition, 1917 Remington, Mosin parts.....that have naver been numbered. :Innocent:

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## hunter63

> Well, I bad mouthed Gander Mountain in the post above for their extreme lack of customer service. I sent a letter (yes, it was a nice letter) to their VP of sales outlining the problem and what my preferred expectations were. Late this afternoon I received a call from the local Gander Mountain store and they said they had a Mosin Nagent in with my name on it if I wanted it and it was at the original sale price. 
> 
> So I now have a third Mosin Nagent. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.


And another one bites the dust........congrats, you won't be sorry, and if you get tired of them, (you won't), you can always sell them, (you won't).

I have three, as well, M38 carbine, M44 Carbine, and the 91/30......looking for a M39,  or maybe Hex reciever, or what ever.

The M1895 7.62 relvover are fun, too. Also comes with holster and oil cans and stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagant_M1895

They just seem to have a "cool factor", bringing history alive.

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## Rick

I'm actually taking two of them to the range tomorrow. Laughing starts tomorrow evening when I post the pics of the targets. Laughing should stop in a day or two.

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## hunter63

I will be heading out in the morning as well, for turkey hunting for a week or so...but bringing the newest adoption along, and gonna shoot it as I get a chance.
So I guess I'll have to actually shoots some real targets.....generally use paper plates.

Good shooting and don't forget to clean it right away....w/surplus ammo.

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## hunter63

> I picked up the second one yesterday and spent 3 hours cleaning that thing. It had to be the last rifle packed that day and the packer needed to get rid of the cosmoline. Hoowee it was full. Same arsenal but this one is a 1942 model. 
> 
> 2 questions for you. 
> 
> I found a site offering a good price on 7.62x54mmR
> 
> 1. Isn't that a different round than 7.62x54R? I read the mm was the first smokeless round or something to that effect and the 54R came later. Is that right? 
> 2. Are they interchangeable? I guess the mm has me confused.


Did you ever get this ironed out?

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I'm actually taking two of them to the range tomorrow. Laughing starts tomorrow evening when I post the pics of the targets. Laughing should stop in a day or two.


Hmmm...no sign of Rick, yet. The targets must have looked pretty bad. LOL :Innocent: 

(Just so y'all know, supposedly, a lot of 91/30's shoot high at 100 yds. Shhhh.....don't tell Rick.)

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## 2dumb2kwit

Dang....I hope the ol' Mosin didn't dislocate his shoulder, keeping him from typing. :Innocent:

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## Rick

Darn near. It's my bad shoulder, too..... :Blushing: 

I've read the Mosin was set up at the factory to shoot with bayonet attached. Shooting it without changes the harmonics of the barrel and the accuracy. That's what I've read and it's a darn good excuse so I'm going with that. 

I was shooting open sights at 100 yards using Silver Bear 203gr. soft point ammo. One of the weapons shoots a bit high and the other shoots a bit to the right. After I figured that out it wasn't too bad. Those rascals do kick a tad. 

I also sighted in a Highpoint 995. I was impressed how accurate that thing is once I got the sights adjusted. 

Let the laughing begin....

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## Justin Case

> One of the weapons shoots a bit high and the other shoots a bit to the right.


You Mean YOU shoot to the right when a bit high ,,,   :Innocent:

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## Rick

Naaaaah. I use a shotgun under those conditions.

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## Justin Case

Well,  Your Target looks plenty Dead anyway  :Smile:

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## Rick

So's my shoulder. Those rooskies must be plenty tough.

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## 2dumb2kwit

I wouldn't want to be standing in that targets place. LOL

So what do you think.....are they worth the money?

When you shot them, did you wonder about the last guy that shot them?

Did you wonder if they had been used in battle?

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## Justin Case

Maybe the original owner was cross eyed and bent the sight to compensate ? :Innocent:   Yeah,  Thats the ticket !

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## Rick

I don't think you can go wrong for the money. It's a great piece of history and a great weapon. Pretty accurate too. My poor eyes couldn't do much more than 100 yards with open sights but I'd guess plenty of young Russian soldiers did far better. Yeah, it's hard to hold on to it and not wonder the stories it could tell.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> So's my shoulder. Those rooskies must be plenty tough.


 Even the women. This lady had 70+ kills. The top woman sniper in Russia, in WW2 had over 300.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU0DJGidzpI

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Maybe the original owner was cross eyed and bent the sight to compensate ?  Yeah,  Thats the ticket !


 Don't ask me how, but I have a friend or two, that if we all shoot the same gun, we all hit at different places. One frind shot one of my rifles, one day and we laughed about the sights. I was hitting one spot and he was hitting about 2.5 inches high and right of my hits. (At 50 yards, with my Marlin lever .44 mag.)

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## Rick

I would imagine there's a bit of difference between my t-shirt and their wool overcoats but I have to give them their dues. 5000 rounds would be tough on anyone. I think I'm going to opt for the rubber butt pad. 

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## Rick

I used the same target for the .9mm as I did for the 7.62. I punched one of each through the frame of the target trying to sight in. The 7.62 drilled a pretty nice hole through 3/4 inch oak while the .9mm blew the back side out leaving very little wood left. Sort of gives you a visual of the difference between the two rounds.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I would imagine there's a bit of difference between my t-shirt and their wool overcoats but I have to give them their dues. 5000 rounds would be tough on anyone. I think I'm going to opt for the rubber butt pad.


 I was thinking about getting a large slip-on limbsaver butt pad, and cutting the bottom so it would just lay in place. That way, I could swap it from one rifle to another, when I'm shooting some of the old mil-surps. :Tongue Smilie:

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## Rick

My plan is to give them to the grand sons when they get older. I've set up a box for each of the rifles to keep spare parts in (cleaning tools, oiler and the rest) so nothing gets lost for the boys. I'll swap out the butt pads to rubber ones for each rifle and place the originals in their respective box. That way they can make them original if they ever decide to sell them.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> My plan is to give them to the grand sons when they get older. I've set up a box for each of the rifles to keep spare parts in (cleaning tools, oiler and the rest) so nothing gets lost for the boys. I'll swap out the butt pads to rubber ones for each rifle and place the originals in their respective box. That way they can make them original if they ever decide to sell them.



 You're a good grandpa. :Thumbup:  :clap:

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## crashdive123

Better buy a few more in case there are more grand kids. :Innocent:

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## Rick

Well, we do have one on the way. I told my wife if I buy the third rifle it will be a girl. If I don't buy it then it will be a boy. Murphy does get around.

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## hunter63

> So's my shoulder. Those rooskies must be plenty tough.


LOL, I agree, but the Carbines, M38's and M-44's are even more stout, and a lot more fire and smoke........Gotta love it!

Shot my new 91/30, didn't take too many shots, had to set the ramp( I guessing that there is a rule that "if it moves, everyone is gonna mess with it")
So when you get you elavation down pat, mark the spot on the ramp,Some how, (I telling you everyone WILL mess with it, LOL)

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## randyt

i've been wanting one of those finnish nagants. i should have ordered one back when they were cheap and i had my ffl. i did end up with three of those nagant revolvers though, at fifty bucks a piece it seemed like a good deal. yea i know, why three, a spare and a pair.  :Smile:

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## Rick

I didn't have to set the ramp for 100 yards on either one. Kind of surprised me. I had read that each mark is a soldiers stride; arshiini or something like that. I do remember that it's 2 1/3 feet. But it sighted just fine without moving it.

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## Rick

I finely got my little scout rifle to the range today. What a load of fun. I added a cheap slip on recoil pad and with my coat on (42F today) there was hardly any recoil. I confess I'm not much of a sniper but I did manage to hit the target centers at 100 yards. That rifle is a whole lot better than I am. The only target I really had any trouble with was Osama Bin Laden. That guy is just hard to kill.

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## hunter63

> i've been wanting one of those finnish nagants. i should have ordered one back when they were cheap and i had my ffl. i did end up with three of those nagant revolvers though, at fifty bucks a piece it seemed like a good deal. yea i know, why three, a spare and a pair.


Those 7 shooters are kinda fun, and you can shoot .32 long or .32 mag in them.

Rick, thanks for the report, maybe Santa gonna bring me one of those scout mounts.......

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## Rick

Just out of curiosity, is there anything in N. America that the 7.62 X 54 won't bring down? I'm not going to be heading out for the outlands to find out I'm just curious how mean that round is.

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## hunter63

> Just out of curiosity, is there anything in N. America that the 7.62 X 54 won't bring down? I'm not going to be heading out for the outlands to find out I'm just curious how mean that round is.


So where is y2k when you need him..........(sorry)
The bullistics are similar to the 30-06 and .308.
Norma data
7.62 X 54r w/180 gr bullet 2625fps @ muzzle

.308         w/180 gr bullet 2610fps @ muzzle

30-06       w/180 gr bullet 2700fps @ muzzle

I would use soft nose bullets for hunting as apposed to fmj.

So, if you feel that a .308 or 30-06 has enough punch for you, then the 7.62 x54r is kinda a "bic" 30-06.

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## kyratshooter

> Just out of curiosity, is there anything in N. America that the 7.62 X 54 won't bring down? I'm not going to be heading out for the outlands to find out I'm just curious how mean that round is.


Balistics is slightly less than .308, a hair better than .303 British.

I would not jump on a big brownie with it, not on purpose, but I would not hesitate to use it on any normal food type animal in NA.

.30 caliber dead is .30 caliber dead!

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## rebel

Fleet farm has 91/30's for $99.99.  I got there after a re-stock and found both Izzys and Tulas and one Tula hex.

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## hunter63

Thanks for the tip.
I just called the closest store, 70 miles away, the kid didn't know a hex from a round receiver but said he had "a bunch" of them.
Maybe a road trip is in order.

Our closest store, is a Blain's Farm and Fleet as opposed to a Mills Fleet farm, and I'm told that they were brothers and didn't get along.
Our closer Blain's F & F no longer carries guns, so I was kinda surprised when I saw this post.

Good news, is there are 2 Dunhams Sporting goods on the way, my favorite Nagant store....Plan B...But in checking their sale flyer, no Nagants on sale, although they do have AK47 for $349.
Thanks again.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> Balistics is slightly less than .308, a hair better than .303 British.
> 
> I would not jump on a big brownie with it, not on purpose, but I would not hesitate to use it on any normal food type animal in NA.
> 
> .30 caliber dead is .30 caliber dead!


I don't know how you get there. The second number is case capacity. The 308 is 7.62x51 and the Russian is 7.62x54. Sure you could load a 308 hot and a Russian mild to get that result.

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## rebel

The '33 hex followed me home.  It's a beast!  I'm going to give it some range time tomorrow.

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## hunter63

> The '33 hex followed me home.  It's a beast!  I'm going to give it some range time tomorrow.


LOL, Yeah, that's kinda the way it works..........last time I was at Dunham's, went with a friend as he was getting bit by Mosinitis, just to "help out" mind you, but it seemed that a 1923 hex was calling my name.
Oh, Well, at $79 bucks, it's better(cheaper) than collecting, say, Ruger #1's

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## 2dumb2kwit

> The '33 hex followed me home.  It's a beast!  I'm going to give it some range time tomorrow.


 I'm looking forward to a range report!

Congrats.

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## kyratshooter

> I don't know how you get there. The second number is case capacity. The 308 is 7.62x51 and the Russian is 7.62x54. Sure you could load a 308 hot and a Russian mild to get that result.


What second number are you reffering too?  The second number is case length, not capicity.  Neither round has a designation for case capicity.

What it will hold has no connection to how much you can safly put in it!  You espically do not want to load a Russian rifle HOT.    

The MN  7.62x54 was a mid-preasure cartridge of the 19th century, much like the .303 (which was a bp round), 8mm French lebel, 30-40 Krag and .30-30 win.  The cordite powders they started with required large cases for huge charges of the inefficient powders they were using.  Even the Mauser 98 changed from a low preasure round to a higher preasure cartridge around ww1.  The older Mauser rifles are not recommended for the high preasure rounds.

The 7.62 NATO/.308 is a high preasure round from the early 1950s developed specifically to use fast burning podwer and give 30-06 ballistics (of the early 1950s) in a short case.  As powders imporved the 30-06 gained 200 fps velocity at 2900 fps (ww2 round was 2700fps) compared to the 2700fps of the commercial .308 and the 2400-2700 fps of the NATO round.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

Not according to my Hornady loading manual. It shows max loads for Russian cartridge 200 feet per second faster with 168 grain bullets. It was also my understanding the 30.06 was shortened to lesson recoil and for better feeding in machine guns but that was just the way I heard it. I have loaded to 308 to get the velocity of the Russian to match the trajectory of a 3.5 PU scope but I found the 308 lost accuracy the faster I pushed it. To be specific, yes the second number is lenght. Length adds capacity and the Russian is slightly larger in diameter also. It has more case capacity.

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## kyratshooter

What I quoted was the standard when the loads were developed.  I am not hot loading a MN.  I just had my right eye repaired and I really enjoy it.   

Your 168 gn loading is not a standard for the russian round.  It was developed with a 210 gn slug at around 2500 and during the war went to a 146 gn slug at 2800.  That is probably why you were having trouble calibrating the 168 gn load to your PU scope.

It does put the surplus russian ammo about par or even a little hotter than commercial .308 and a good bit hotter than NATO in the 150 gn loads. 

The Russian round was chambered in a number of solid guns from Winchester and Remingtion over the years and it might be a different deal in one of them.  I simply do not trust Russian peasant labor enough to load a MN to max with any powder/slug combination.

You can max load the .308 to 2900 with the 150 slug, and in a 700 Remington or 70 Winchester that is fine, but not in a converted '93 Spanish Mauser, even though the round will chamber and fire.

Its the same with some of the old '03 Springfields.  They were chancy to start with and when they zipped the round to 2900fps it was more than many could handle.

One thing I do note is that Lyman has no preasure ratings on the 7.62x54.  Max loads of H380 and 150gn slugs in .308 gives 52,000 cpu and in 30-06 gives 45,000cpu.  That is a hefty blow for an old split breech war production bolt rifle.

The 30-06 worked fine in full auto weapons that were designed for it; the BAR, air cooled Browning and its watercooled mate and the occasional M1 with a broken disconnector and the select fire Baretta conversions.  The Government went to the .308 to get a shorter action/cartridge combination to save gun/ammo weight.  They basically wished to modernize our issue weapons and that called for a short action/cartridge.  There might have been a need to adjust to a shorter round to make use of all the surplus MG42 machine guns the NATO allies were using.  Otherwise they might have not adopted the round as NATO stanbdard.  All they had to do to change to the NATO round was replace their 8mm MG42 barrels.  There were three things that scared American GIs to death in WW2; tiger tanks, 88mm artillery pieces and MG42 MGs.

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## rebel

[img]http://Input Parameters
.308 Gov't 149gr M80

BC	Bullet
Weight	Muzzle
Velocity	Zero
 Range 	Sight
Height	LOS
 Angle 
 0.200 G7 	149gr	2750	100	1.5 in	0°
Altitude	Pressure	Temp	RH 	Wind
Velocity	Wind
 Angle 
0.0	 29.92 Hg. 	59.0 °F	78%	10.0	90°
Zero
Altitude	Zero
Pressure	Zero
Temp	Zero
 RH 	Optimum
PBR Zero
500.0	 29.92 Hg. 	30.0 °F	78%	278
Bullet Trajectory
 Range 
(yards)	Drop
(in)	Drop
(moa)	Wind.
(in)	Wind.
(moa)	 Veloc. 
(fps)	Energy 
(ft-lbs)	Time
(sec)
  25		-0.66	-2.54	0.05	0.20	2700	2411	0.03
  50		-0.13	-0.24	0.21	0.39	2643	2310	0.06
  75		0.10	0.13	0.47	0.60	2586	2212	0.08
  100		0.00	0.00	0.84	0.81	2530	2117	0.11
  125		-0.43	-0.33	1.33	1.02	2475	2026	0.14
  150		-1.23	-0.78	1.94	1.24	2420	1937	0.17
  175		-2.39	-1.30	2.67	1.46	2366	1852	0.21
  200		-3.94	-1.88	3.53	1.68	2313	1769	0.24
  215	↑	-4.98	-2.22	4.06	1.81	2283	1725	0.26
  225		-5.90	-2.50	4.51	1.92	2260	1690	0.27
  250		-8.28	-3.16	5.63	2.15	2209	1613	0.30
  275		-11.10	-3.86	6.90	2.39	2157	1540	0.34
  300		-14.40	-4.58	8.30	2.64	2107	1469	0.37
  325		-18.18	-5.34	9.85	2.90	2057	1400	0.41
  350		-22.48	-6.13	11.56	3.15	2008	1334	0.45
  375		-27.31	-6.96	13.43	3.42	1960	1271	0.48
  400		-32.71	-7.81	15.46	3.69	1912	1209	0.52
  425		-38.71	-8.70	17.66	3.97	1865	1150	0.56
  450		-45.33	-9.62	20.05	4.25	1818	1093	0.60
  475		-52.60	-10.58	22.61	4.55	1772	1039	0.65
  500		-60.57	-11.57	25.38	4.85	1726	986	0.69
  525		-69.27	-12.60	28.34	5.15	1681	935	0.73
  550		-78.74	-13.67	31.51	5.47	1636	886	0.78
  575		-89.02	-14.78	34.90	5.80	1592	839	0.82
  600		-100.15	-15.94	38.52	6.13	1549	793	0.87
  625		-112.19	-17.14	42.38	6.48	1506	750	0.92
  650		-125.19	-18.39	46.49	6.83	1463	708	0.97
  675		-139.20	-19.69	50.86	7.19	1421	668	1.02
  700		-154.29	-21.05	55.50	7.57	1380	630	1.08
  725		-170.53	-22.46	60.43	7.96	1339	593	1.13
  750		-187.97	-23.93	65.65	8.36	1299	558	1.19
  775		-206.71	-25.47	71.19	8.77	1259	525	1.25
  800		-226.81	-27.07	77.05	9.20	1221	493	1.31
  825		-248.37	-28.75	83.25	9.64	1183	463	1.37
  850		-271.49	-30.50	89.81	10.09	1147	435	1.43
  873		-293.19	-32.11	95.87	10.50	1116	412	1.49
  875		-296.26	-32.33	96.72	10.55	1112	409	1.50
  900		-322.78	-34.25	103.96	11.03	1085	389	1.57
  925		-351.15	-36.25	111.47	11.51	1064	374	1.64
  950		-381.44	-38.34	119.20	11.98	1048	363	1.71
  975		-413.72	-40.52	127.11	12.45	1033	353	1.78
  1000		-448.03	-42.78	135.19	12.91	1021	344	1.86[/img]

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## OhioGrizzLapp

This is my M44 Isvk Scout. When I hunt with it, I use reloaded Norma Brass and a 185 grn SPBT. Very good results on large deer, 300lb black bear. I also keep 3 loaded conversions shells with the M44 that allows me to shoot .32 rounds from it. The scope is a BSA Edge, the scout mount is a SK Industries, I added a rubber butt plate, a slack spring on the trigger. I also lapped the bolt and bore. Except for being a little on the heavy side for a scout type rifle, it is a good choice and especially for the price. I also took off the baynet and bayo lug. When using my reloads, I never get split cases or ruptures like I do on various surplus ammo. I will also use the Yugo Training rounds that are hollow 62grn (grey tip) (kind of hard to find now, but I bought 2 cases back when they were everywhere) for close in work as they are really only good to 100 yards at best and then they just basically just drop to the ground, but out to 50-60 yards are really great on medium sized game. 

Tiger Direct has the 91/30 for $79 ($69 if you buy 3 or more) with accessories and the M44 for $189. They have M38's for $260 no accessories. They sell all three as C&R. 

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> That is probably why you were having trouble calibrating the 168 gn load to your PU scope.


That was just one bullet I chose at random from the manual for this discussion but all bullet weights give a slight edge to the Russian. I was not loading hot but instead for accuracy which are milder average loads.

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## gordy

> FYI
> Gander Mountain has a sale on right now on the Nagants 91/30's. $99.95
> Been watching them and were at $149.95 at Christmas, lately $129.95, now on sale.
> This is about the lowest I seen in a couple of years.
> So, of course I had to bring one home, darn things are addicting.


Yeah man, I shot huge pigs with this gun and saw the meat flight off them, Literally.

I bayoneted the survivors as a matter of coarse. 

These nagants are unbelievable as a heavy brush guns, tough as all $hit and excellent hunting rifles.

Grab a couple if you can, they are a tough gun.

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## hunter63

> Yeah man, I shot huge pigs with this gun and saw the meat flight off them, Literally.
> 
> I bayoneted the survivors as a matter of coarse. 
> 
> These nagants are unbelievable as a heavy brush guns, tough as all $hit and excellent hunting rifles.
> 
> Grab a couple if you can, they are a tough gun.


Only a couple?
There are 91/30's Hex/Round receivers, several armories, some even made by Remington and other American mfg's, M44's M38's...M39's the list can be really long.....

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## OhioGrizzLapp

LOL why would ya pay retail when ya have a friend (me) to buy em wholesale  :Smile:  

"Tiger Direct has the 91/30 for $79 ($69 if you buy 3 or more) with accessories and the M44 for $189. They have M38's for $260 no accessories. They sell all three as C&R."

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## rebel

It was a great time at the range!    The instructional videos really helped.  I ended up doing a trigger job, polishing the bolt and floating the barrel.  I've got a little fine tuning to do = more range time.

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## rebel

My competition just put in a timey trigger. Dang it!  

http://www.timneytriggers.com/index....pper&Itemid=23

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## Rick

I don't get putting a trigger in a weapon that is worth more than the weapon. I've looked at those and I just shake my head.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I don't get putting a trigger in a weapon that is worth more than the weapon. I've looked at those and I just shake my head.


I'm with ya, Rick. If you're gonna spend a hundred bucks.....BUY ANOTHER MOSIN!!! LOL

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## kyratshooter

> My competition just put in a timey trigger. Dang it!  
> 
> http://www.timneytriggers.com/index....pper&Itemid=23


Hey Rebel, freak your competition out and do that $0.25 trigger job I did to my MN.  All it takes is drilling and tapping one hole in the trigger body at the right spot and a set screw.  It takes about 1/2 hour.  It changes the lever fulcrum location on the trigger and eased my trigger down to about 3-4 pounds without making any dangerous alterations.  I think the instructions are in my quick and dirty thread.

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## rebel

> Hey Rebel, freak your competition out and do that $0.25 trigger job I did to my MN.  All it takes is drilling and tapping one hole in the trigger body at the right spot and a set screw.  It takes about 1/2 hour.  It changes the lever fulcrum location on the trigger and eased my trigger down to about 3-4 pounds without making any dangerous alterations.  I think the instructions are in my quick and dirty thread.


Thanks for the help!

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## rebel

I installed an AK pistol grip with epoxy and lag bolt.  Wrapped the stock in fiberglass and painted it.

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## hunter63

> I installed an AK pistol grip with epoxy and lag bolt.  Wrapped the stock in fiberglass and painted it.
> 
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> 
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That's intresting, can't say I would have thought of that.
Thanks, looking good....Let it know how it shoots.

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## Skinner

> So's my shoulder. Those rooskies must be plenty tough.


Yea When I Went Out Shooting With My Buddie And Shooting His 2 Mosins He Had With In 3 Days My Shoulder Was Black and Blue Hell We Shot About 400 Rounds and Loved Every Shot .

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## kyratshooter

Hey Rebel,  I want a dragunov stock for mne.  That is one option I would put out another $70 for.  I put one on a 10/22 and a Marlin 60 and it would really improve the 91/30.

Skinner if they are beating you up you are not holding them against your shoulder!  All the Russian hardware has short wood due to The artic environment and all the layers they wear.  I seems that all the old bolt guns have stocks that amplify the recoil rather than tame it.  The only thing I ever shot from that era that was and "easy" gun was the P17 Enfield.

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## rebel

I almost put on a folding stock!  Ridiculous but fun.

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## hunter63

Well, boys, Dunhams Sporting Goods has 91/30 on sale again, $89.99.......
Good thing I have to go to a wedding today....LOL

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## huskymill

i got a few friends back up at school that bout a case of 20 that were all made in 1945. they all chipped in for it and one of them has a special license to purchase them by the case. in the end it was like $80 per rilfe after shipping costs. came with bayonets as well  :Yes:   i didnt get one but ive one of my friends let me shoot his. it worked great we killed a bunch of milk jugs from about 60 yards away nothing serious just having fun. one of my friends that is in the national guard was actually shooting the caps off the milk jugs it was crazy i couldnt even see the caps from that far away. bottom line they were pretty accurate.

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## huskymill

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9 from a crate of 20

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## hunter63

> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 9 from a crate of 20


LOL, Looks like a good start to me!.....

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