# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Making Stuff >  spear fishing

## corndog-44

I tried a lot of the spearing methods you see in survival manuals. Most of them are a joke, in fact it was the least productive. I can catch fish by hand more successfully than with the spear. If you do try the spear method, you must fire harden the end and add a barb. Even this method looks better on TV than in real life. It took 20 tries to spear one. Has anyone had any success at spear fishing? Any tips?

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## wareagle69

i had purchased a spear this summer but you must be native to legally spearfish in canada although if in a need to situation you can charge me when i come out alive. my new property has a stream running thru it and i will practice on my own property.

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## owl_girl

What about those Hawaiian harpoons, they must have been successful or the natives would have stopped using them. I saw an episode of survivor where they gave one team some of those Hawaiian harpoons and they said once they had then spearing fish was easy. 

I would love to try fishing that way

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## FVR

Hawaiian slings are what we use to call them when we dove off the coast of S. Cal.

Pretty basic idea, long shaft, three pronged barb, with a surgical tubing wrist sling.  Worked great for snorkeling, took a little practic.

I'd like to try it, seen a mess of trout in the stream across the street but it's illegal in Georgia.

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## corndog-44

It's legal in Indiana in certain large streams and non-flowing waters. Spear fishing is allowed in these waters all year, day and night for suckers, carp, gar, bowfin, buffalo and shad with no bag limits.

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## FVR

Yeh, legal for all the fish that taste like crap.  Use to catch carp on the Delaware, caught one that was well over 10lbs, cooked it up and ate it.  It was okay, If I was dying of hunger but otherwise, no thanks.

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## corndog-44

Hollow out a log with an ax, put the carp inside the log. Toss the whole mess into a fire. throw away the carp and eat the log. 
~Ancient Carp Recipe

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## corndog-44

I try to account for optical refraction at the water's surface, which makes the fish appear to be further away. Unlike a straw in a glass, the fish are moving and so is the water. Should I aim lower to hit the target or what? I'm talking about surface spear fishing here, not underwater.

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## trax

tv was black and white, people were stills shocked and saddened by the Kennedy assassination...Yeah yeah I was a kid, blah blah blah..anyway...we used to go spear fishing!

I knew there was a point there trax, keep going! Carry a big-assed nail in your shirt pocket, if you need to spear fish, drive the nail into a good sized stick then heat and sharpen the flat end, barbed hook! As far as nailing the buggers corn-dog....practice. Where I hail from we had plenty of rock laden creeks where we could stand out on the rocks and spear the fish, plenty of broken and damaged spears but you do get more accustomed to anticipating the fishy's movements in the water with practice.

We caught plenty of jackfish (northern pike to my southern friends) which are slimy on the outside, bony on the inside, but tasty fried and certainly meet any daily protein requirements one may have. 

Man, it's been years and years since I did that, course it was illegal as hell, but I'm wanting to go back home and do it again, just thinking about it!  :Big Grin:

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## Smok

yes using wood for the spear point is not very good try river Cain and fire harden it . make the point like the Hawaiian spear  with 4 to 6 points or wire is great IF YOU HAVE IT

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## HOP

I use to make a fishing stick for my son it was basicly a stick split down the end some and with a few teeth carved on the inside and springy with a triger and he could catch blue gills all day long.

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## Beo

We did that in Ranger school, split the stick (6 to 7 foot length, flexible sapling works best about as big as two finger widths) down the middle 7in. split, fire harden after cutting barbs into split, insert a small stone (no bigger than your pinky) to keep the split seperated, tie in with twine or thin leather thong (wet twine first or leather thong a boot lace works well also) and there you have it. Aim about 1 or 2 inches behind where you wanna strike and practice. God its been a long time since I did that (don't tell no one its illegal in Ohio, but now I gotta try it again). 
The simple way is to by a frog jig and use that.

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## Smok

Are you surer its behind and not below or above I can not remember ??

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## flandersander

I know. It is "Aim below and you will know, aim high and you will die (of starvation i guess)." So aim low!

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## MedicineWolf

Beowulf is right, it is aim an inch or so behind what you actually see. We still do spear fishing on the reservation.

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## Bladesypher

Spear fishing is a very hard skill to grasp and takes a large amount of skill.

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## flandersander

I agree. I want to try tying a string to the back of my blowgun and tying the other end on to the dart. making a barbed dart and try hitting the perch at the lake. any other ideas on blowgun fishing?

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## Rick

Check this out.
http://www.wholesalegoods.net/Mercha..._Code=specblow

Here's another one: 

http://www.geocities.com/blowgunhunter/fish-pix.html

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## pgvoutdoors

I've had reasonably good success with a Hawaiian Sling.  While stationed at Kaneohe Bay in Hawaii we would use it to catch fish but I found it great to spear squid and eel.  I was shown how to use the sling by locals, which always speeds up the learning curve.  We would snorkel up on the squid and eels, they would back themselves into the rocks,  where we could take a good short range shot.

Fishing spears I've found very tough to use in deep water.  Here in N.E. Ohio we have shallow rivers and creeks that I fish for Steelhead by fly rod.  I noticed that the Suckers are in high numbers in the Spring.  So I made up a spear with a removable head. (took three heads with me)  I went to a small feeder creek in the evening and waded into the middle of the creek.  I worked my way upstream and as I've done before.  I could walk up to the back of the suckers laying on the bottom facing upstream.  The water was only one-two feet deep and very clear.  I used only a small LED head lamp which gave ample light to move and spot the fish.  The bottom of the creek is a flat Shale, easy to walk on.  It was very easy to walk up on them   

Relying on some training I receive in the USMC, I attempted to spear some suckers.  The spear didn't ride forward so much, not like it had done in the past in deeper water.  I used a three prong head with barbs of bone.  (shattered deer leg) The penetration wasn't very good but I could easily hold down the Sucker to retrieve him.  The spear heads were fragile and I went through the three I brought in about 1 1/2 hours.

I *smoked* the fish slowly for about three hours and cooked the in a half dozen ways.  I used salt and wild plants as ingredients to my recipes.  For the most part the fish turned out pretty good.  Under a survival situation they would be darn good.  Sense that time I've experimented on different methods of catching fish using natural materials and basic survival supplies.

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## canid

spearfishing seems to only lend itself well to some fish species in some situations. river carp, large and lazily drifting by are obviously more suitable than palagic tuna.

in my area, spearfishing is permitted during from spring through summer for carp, goldfish, western sucker, sacramento blackfish, hardhead [i don't even know what those latter two species are], sacramento pike minnow and lamprey. archery is permitted year round for most of those species. these happen to be the species best suited for that type of fishing. unfortunately, i would be hard pressed to find any fish i would want to eat within even unreasonable walking distance from where i live unless i where starving to death. i have to travel for my fish.

when i was in mitchigan, i giged for amphibians, which is an easier proposition, given my skill set [turttle and bullfrog from a johnboat in sloughs and lagoons].

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## Smok

When spearing fish of any size  try for head shots , you will not lose as meany fish as this is a kill shot.

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## Jay

In manmade tanks (lakes) in the dry zone of SL I have used a bow and arrow for the same purpose.  Tried the homemade spear but failed miserably. homemade bow seems to work better.  Has anyone tried the bow?

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## Pan

> tv was black and white, people were stills shocked and saddened by the Kennedy assassination...Yeah yeah I was a kid, blah blah blah..anyway...we used to go spear fishing!
> 
> I knew there was a point there trax, keep going! Carry a big-assed nail in your shirt pocket, if you need to spear fish, drive the nail into a good sized stick then heat and sharpen the flat end, barbed hook! As far as nailing the buggers corn-dog....practice. Where I hail from we had plenty of rock laden creeks where we could stand out on the rocks and spear the fish, plenty of broken and damaged spears but you do get more accustomed to anticipating the fishy's movements in the water with practice.
> 
> We caught plenty of jackfish (northern pike to my southern friends) which are slimy on the outside, bony on the inside, but tasty fried and certainly meet any daily protein requirements one may have. 
> 
> Man, it's been years and years since I did that, course it was illegal as hell, but I'm wanting to go back home and do it again, just thinking about it!


 We call pickerel "jackfish" down here in south Al. They look alot like a pike but not as big. Also boney, you eat the smaller ones (10 inchers) you filet and cut across the tiny bones with slashes every quarter inch.   They gig suckers in north florida and gill net them here. All done at night with lights. Other than that I cant imagine spending that much time waiting in a survival situation when traps can be much more productive.

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## Rick

Of course you can always hog a stealhead. If you have the guts, that is.

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## flandersander

> In manmade tanks (lakes) in the dry zone of SL I have used a bow and arrow for the same purpose.  Tried the homemade spear but failed miserably. homemade bow seems to work better.  Has anyone tried the bow?


I haven't tried a bow but i plan to try a blowgun. A barbed tip or something like that. Any ideas on blowgun fishing?

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## RBB

> I tried a lot of the spearing methods you see in survival manuals. Most of them are a joke, in fact it was the least productive. I can catch fish by hand more successfully than with the spear. If you do try the spear method, you must fire harden the end and add a barb. Even this method looks better on TV than in real life. It took 20 tries to spear one. Has anyone had any success at spear fishing? Any tips?


I do it all winter.  Big heavy spear with multiple tines.  You have to be in a dark house or dark colored canvas shelter - so the fish can't see you.  You rig a bait fish in a harness, usually about a half to one pound sucker. You just watch for the fish through the hole in the ice and drop the spear when the fish is where you want it to be.

For more primitive forms of spearing, I've tied two rat spears to a pole and speared suckers.  Takes a little practise, but you end up with fish.  Best if they are close to the surface.  Easiest if it is during spawning.  Hard to miss then.

As mentioned in an earlier post, rough fish are legal to spear here.  They are good smoked.

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## Jay

> I haven't tried a bow but i plan to try a blowgun. A barbed tip or something like that. Any ideas on blowgun fishing?


Bow & arrow
A small barb glued on to one side of a blunt arrow.  The fish need to be fairly near the surface....one to one and a half feet. 

Blow gun
 I have a 6' brass tube about the diameter of a cigrette and use it as a blowgun sometimes.  mostly on targets. I use a thin bamboo strip as a dart with a cigrette but fixed to the end and fluffed out. 8-10". I doubt if the dart will penetrate the fish through a foot or more of water. They are extremely light and the fluffy end will add further drag slowing down the dart.  However its worth experimenting with.

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## flandersander

Well i don't know how much water you could hit them in but today i hit a northern pike i cought ice fishing. I shot it behind the skull and it took a lot to pull the barb out. I made a harpoon like dart out of a coathanger and a headphone jack. You should try it. if you want further instruction, just ask.

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## flandersander

i want to try a spear. any ideas or links on good small fish spears?

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## Jericho117

I just stick with making a bow to get fish. It's just so much easier killing fish and even though making a bow and arrows takes longer than making a spear, to me it's more effective. Iv'e taken 5 Brook Trout ranging in size from 4 inches to 9 inches in one day with one of my seasoned longbows with my fish arrows with split tips. I couldn't see myself doind that with a spear. The only thing that seems easy to take with a spear is frogs to me. It's mostly becuase they sit still on the banks of creeks, making an easy target.

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## Jericho117

FlanderSander- If you want to make and try a spear, I recommend making a seasoned one which will last longer than a short-term spear. Basically cut a long sapling, about six feet long, and at least an inch thick and make sure the sapling doesn't wobble, it should be strong and barely flexible. Use a knife to peel the bark off the sapling, but don't cut into the actual wood on the staff. Set it aside in a room or out in the sun for 3 days or a week. By then, it should be dry enough. Now for the head of the spear you can choose eithier putting sharp bone, glass, tin (make sure the metal isn't soft), or a knife if you have extra ones, onto the spear. Do this by splitting the top of the spear with your knife or a hatchet, and make sure it's split only 3 or 4 inches or less down, no more. Next, insert the choosen material for the head, between the split. Bind the spear tip to the spear with wet rawhide or leather cord (when wet the leather or rawhide will dry and shrink and keep it tighter) tightly to were the tip doesn't move whe you apply pressure to it. You can use any other cordage though. Make sure though, that material used for the tip is long and skinny but not brittle. Another way, which im sure everyone knows, is the single or split fire-hardened tip. As long as you got a good knife it will be easy to carve green wood. I use green wood to make my bows and season them for a week. Green fresh wood is easier and softer to carve into with your knife and icreases the life spand of the blade. I could tell you more but I hate explaining things, I think thats why I have a couple bad grades. So if you want to learn more i suggest you visit the website- www.primitiveways.com

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## flandersander

ok well i'm fishing for perch. I don't know how to catch them. with a impaling spear, a spear that pins them to the bottom or a harpoon like spear. i would say impaling spear.

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## Jericho117

Perch are like SunFish and Bluegill. Use your spear to get knee deep in the water and use food to attract them. Dangle the food in your fingers or let it float on the surface. Sometimes the fish will be curious enough to come to you even without bait. Stay absolutley still with the spear leveled on top of the water and wait for a fish within range to turn broadside. Try not to cast a shadow over the fish to. Aim slightly below the fish and use a quick thrust to pin the fish down. Don't lift the spear if you know you got a fish. Keep the fish pinned to the ground and reach underwater and snap the fishes neck or crush its skull with your fingers or fist. I would only use barbed spears for big fish. Perch are small panfish so I wouldn't get to fancy with the spear. Hunt when the sun is hitting the shore and hunt in the morning becuase thats when shore fish come out.

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## flandersander

Alrighty then. Could I use the kind that is split but when a fish gets inside the jaws snap shut? or should I try to stab them? I was also going to try like 1/4 inch doweling and drill a 3/16 hole and put some 3/16 dowel inside and use that for a tip. or put an exacto knife blade at the tip of the 3/16 dowel and stab fish with that.

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## Jericho117

You could use both. They would work fine with that type of fish. But try stabbing (impaling) them first to develop the skill. Basically just start off with the harder way and then slowly move into easier methods of spearfishing. If that fails than try other things. I think the hardest part of spearfishing is the patience needed.

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## flandersander

well we have a great spot and there is perch there all the time. we can put some worms out and there are perch there right now. does that doweling thing sound good?

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## Jericho117

Yeah the doweling sounds good. That spot with the Perch sounds good to. Is it a lake or pond? As long as it's shallow and the water tempature is comfortable for you while you fish. And it all depends. Right now is winter time, and you said you threw some worms out there and there are Perch, and are you using fishing line and hooks, and how far are you casting out? The reason why I ask is because if you live up north, one of two things are effecting spearfishing for you. One of the problems is that the fish are going to be in deeper water and that makes spearfishing, especially in this time of year, virtually impossible. The other problem is that I think the water temperature would be to cold for you. I recently went out with my bow to get some Brook Trout traveling downstream, and the tempature was around 35-38 degrees, and I decided to step in knee deep water and after I was done fishing I couldn't feel my legs and they were red and blue and extremely numb. I would'nt risk this for fishing with a spear. I did a no-no in almost close to freezing water. Wait until Spring or those days where the temperature rises to at least 65 degrees.

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## flandersander

it is in a 14 mile long 2oo foot deep lake trout lake. there is a small sand bar that is connected to shore and there is an abandoned beaver lodge that the perch hide in. you can walk out to the hut in ancle deep water. yes it is northern saskatchewan but the lake is surprisingly warm for wading in. in fact we water ski in it. we use worm and tiny jigs so we cast out maybe 20 feet at the most. I will do this in the summer. does the exacto blade sound like a feasable tip? or should i use something else? any recomentations?

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## Jericho117

An Exacto blade should work for a spear tip. It's a little bit small, but go ahead and try it out. Remember it has to fit snug and tight on the head of the spear. You should test the Exacto blade on the spear head right now and see if it's capable of staying on the spear. And I would get going on making a spear right now so it can season and dry out all Winter and Spring until Summer when you said you were going to spear fish. Just anytime this week grab your knife and head out in the woods to find the perfect sapling to make into a spear. If you find more than one good sapling for a spear, go ahead and cut it down and make another just in case. If you cant find any other tips for the spear, just carve a sharp poiny and fire-harden it ( im sure you know what fire-harden means). But I would try to get your hands on a fixed blade knife and use that for the spear tip. But don't do this if you only have one knife. There is a lot of ways to make a spear head, just choose one and see which one works best. I told you how to make a good fish spear so all you have to do is make it and attatch a tip or carve one. That ankle-deep water seems incredibly shallow and will make it easier to spot the fish and spear them. Thats good that the water is warm.

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## flandersander

well where i spear them, the water is about a foot or 2 deep. i stand in ankle deep water. but it is quite easy to hit them with a stone. i will use willow for a spear. is that a good spear or should i use a different wood?

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## Jericho117

Willow is perfect. It usually grows straight and is on the forest floor so it will be easy to cut. Another sapling like willow that can be another alternative is Birch, but that usually doesn't grow straight, but it is strong. If the willow you cut for your spear isn't weak and is strong, keep it. But if it is weak than try Birch saplings. Try to keep the willow thick. Use the "ok" hand signal with the pointer finger and thumb touching each other to determine the aprropriate thickness ( or at least inch to an inch in a half thick). If it feels to heavy than shape down the thickness. Length is easy to determine. Im six feet tall and I make my spears my exact height. So you do the same. Just keep it as tall as you are or at least 6 feet or over. I hope you get the idea, "strong and long" for the spear. Good Luck and happy fishing.

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## flandersander

Thanks. Six feet isn't probible. I am only 5'4" tall. and how do you go about fire hardening a point? mine always scortch or burn.

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## canid

then you are either holding them too close to the fire or are leaving them there for too long.

it's fine if they brown a bit but the idea is to have them over the fire long enough to dry them out significantly or completely. 2-5 min.

try it over coals instead of flames. whenever it begins to brown, back it a little farther off.

i use a white gas stove in my garage when i work with hardening or even heat straightening. it works fine.

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## crashdive123

Using a Hawaiian Sling is my favorite spearing method (actually I suck horribly at other spearing attempts).  As previously mentioned splitting the tip, fire hardening, and keeping it separated with a pebble works.  I always bring a bit of surgical tubing (bunches of uses) and several nails.  I make a three pronged tip with the nails using the pebble method to keep the points separated and the tubing at the other end for the propulsion.  With three nails you don't have to worry about making barbs.  The nails are also handy for a bunch of stuff.  In my kit I have monofilament line, duct tape, etc wrapped around them.

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## AdventureDoc

I spent a lot of time as a kid with spearfishing, off Baja.  Great times and tough fishing.  I have always liked the sling method, too.  I had a store bought one, for about 15 bucks.  I made a few, also.  A PVC pipe for the tube, surgical tubing for propulsion and the spear itself was a wal-mart style frog gig on a wooden dowel/curtain rod.  Tough luck with it.

In a survival scenario, I would thing spearing from shore would be better.  Goggles, a snorkel and fins are pretty much required.  I have tried to spear fish sans goggles and it is almost impossible.

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## flandersander

I think i will have to try snorkel spearing. any advice on that?

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## flandersander

nobody snorkel spears?

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## canid

i don't but i assure you i will the next chance i get. the water around here i wouldn't want to put my hand in.

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## flandersander

so what do you do? just swim around looking for fish? and when u see one just shoot it?

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## Assassin Pilot

I would try looking in relatively shallow water. But I have always had better success in fishing w/ a pole.

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## flandersander

what about not going underwater? just go where you know there are fish?

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## flandersander

> Using a Hawaiian Sling is my favorite spearing method (actually I suck horribly at other spearing attempts).  As previously mentioned splitting the tip, fire hardening, and keeping it separated with a pebble works.  I always bring a bit of surgical tubing (bunches of uses) and several nails.  I make a three pronged tip with the nails using the pebble method to keep the points separated and the tubing at the other end for the propulsion.  With three nails you don't have to worry about making barbs.  The nails are also handy for a bunch of stuff.  In my kit I have monofilament line, duct tape, etc wrapped around them.


So you seperate it into thirds, spread them apart and fireharden it? then put the nail inside the point and stab away? :Confused:  :Confused:  :Confused: :

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## crashdive123

> So you seperate it into thirds, spread them apart and fireharden it? then put the nail inside the point and stab away?:


Not quite.  The nails are an alternative method.  Method 1 - make sharp point and fire harden it.  Method - 2 split the tip, sharpen, separate the points so they are about 1 to 1-1/2 inches apart then fire harden (splitting the tip keeps the fish from comining off). Method 3 - use three nails to form a split tip.  Method 4 - buy a collapsable sling and carry it with you.  They can use a variety of tips.

With a Hawaiian sling you don't stab.  The opposite end from the tip has a big "rubber band" attached (this is where the surgical tubing comes in).  the spear part should be about 5-6 feet long.  Place the tubing between your thumb and index finger.  Hold on to the spear (sling) The further you move your hand toward the pointy end, the tighter the tubing gets.  If you are snorkeling, simply float and wait for the fish to get close.  As they do, slowly put the pointy end near the fish, loosen your grip on the spear, the tubing will propel the spear quickly at the fish.  Make sure your spear shaft is smooth, or be wearing gloves.  Once you release your grip on the shaft, the spear travels very fast.  You are not letting go of the shaft, just loosening your grip.

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## Beo

It may look like this for spear fishing which is the way I use it.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
And I have also used a frog gig for spear fishing and thise work great.

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## flandersander

I figured that a sharpened stick wasn't sharp enough. is it or do i need to fasten some pins in the end? i made a spear with pins in the end and haven't tried it yet.

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## Beo

No if you sharpen the ends to points and carve barbs (I only use one barb on each side) you should be fine, this is how I have done it many times. I don't know if spear fishing is legal in Ohio, never thought about it, but I do t anyway. Since I'm not in a real survival situation I use artificial deer sinew to mine up with as cordage, its thin, strong, and easy to manage. Not as thick as paracord which works well also.

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## flandersander

thanks beowolf!

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## Rick

Beo posted some good pictures. The first spear is a great one to use to pin the fish to the bottom of a stream bed while the second one can be used in deeper water. 

Spear fishing is very restricted in Indiana to specific locations even to the point of a stream's flow of cubic feet per minute so be certain to check the laws in your local before engaging.

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## flandersander

ok well i own my own pond with fish in it so it really doesn't matter. what if i made a three pronged spear that had pins for points. no barbs but really sharp points. would it work???

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## crashdive123

> ok well i own my own pond with fish in it so it really doesn't matter. what if i made a three pronged spear that had pins for points. no barbs but really sharp points. would it work???


Not sure what size "pins" you're talking about.  This site has a picture of the tip I use on my collapsable sling.  Just scroll down to the special prawn tip.

http://www.bluewaterhunter.com/shops...ml/spears.html

While living around Seattle, spent many a weekend scuba diving and spearing fish.  They will not "fall" off this tip, but are very easy to remove (no barbs)

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## flandersander

well they look like tiny nails. they are sewing pins i guess. i split the shaft into thirds, fire hardened it, then drilled a tiny hole in the ends and glued a pin inside. the pin protrudes about an inch out the 3 shafts. its basically the same thing as what you use bit pins not spikes. it is for perch by the way. is that any help?

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## crashdive123

Yeah that helps.  Not sure if it'll be sturdy enough, but try it and see.  That tip I showed you in the link - each "tip" is about three inches long.  As far as perch - that is mainly what I speared (that and ling cod).  Just floated in the kelp beds and BLAM.  I could usually get about 30 - 50 on a tank of air.

For perch you may be O.K.

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## flandersander

what else should i try? for perch i mean.

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## crashdive123

Can't help you there.  After fishing with a sling, it just seemed a bit tedious doing it another way.  Now when I put a line in the water, it's to relax.

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## flandersander

that sucks. do you think i could use a frog gig? do you think i could use a slingshot with a tube mounted on the front? could i pick up the type of spear tip that you use at my local sporting goods store? fish store?

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## crashdive123

Woah.  Lot's of questions there.  Here's an idea.  Try each of the methods you're describing and report back to the forum and share the information with everybody on how each worked.  I look forward to your research.

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## flandersander

ok well tell me if i can get the kind of spear tip at wholesale sports or the fishin hole (bass pro shops)

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## flandersander

what if i put like a foot of thin piano wire into the end of a piece of doweling? it would make a wicked spear but i'm not sure if i could get a perch with it. Should I try it?

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## Rick

Ned, why would you ask? If your lake isn't frozen over in Saskatoon then have at it.

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## flandersander

you're right. the resivoir is kind of umm... solid. i was going to make it now so i could perfect it by the time summer comes, if you must know. ricky do you think it would work? I certainly do. Also where could i get some 11lb piano wire? my local music store?

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## crashdive123

My goodness.  JUST GO OUT AND TRY IT!!!!!!!!!

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## marberry

spear fishing is blody hard . just bring fishing line with u , make a hook and poll . its Alot easier

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## flandersander

ok. jeez. i'm just looking for an expierenced hand to giude me. of course i'll try it. i just don't want to spend the 89 cents on doweling and 99 cents on piano wire if i don't have to. no i'm just kidding i'll try it. thanks for the advice. actually marcraft, i want this info to snorkel spear for fish when i'm up at the lake. not for survival fishing. i have hooks and line and weights in my survival pack.(of course)

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## marberry

snorkel spear fishing now that would be fun! have to bring my snorkels next time i go to a lake , id just make a spear out of dowling and use an electric sander to give it a point. i would prob make the spear atleast 4 feet long and use fishing line instead of piano wire.

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## flandersander

> snorkel spear fishing now that would be fun! have to bring my snorkels next time i go to a lake , id just make a spear out of dowling and use an electric sander to give it a point. i would prob make the spear atleast 4 feet long and use fishing line instead of piano wire.


i don't think you understand. i am going to drill a small hole and insert the piano wire in the hole (if anybody says thats what she said i swear to god). the piano wire(11lbs) would be the tip.11lb wire is very rigid and would hold a point really well. the fish would be impaled by the rigid piano wire and stay on the wire. the doweling is simple for the holding the wire. or maybe a coathanger i havent decided yet.

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## marberry

oh neat . i didnt know piano wire was that straight, id just buy a lil alluminum rod .3cm radius and 3 inches long and file it down then glue it into the hole, i thought you meant to tie the spear onto your belt so u didnt loose it lol. id still go with a longer spear just to keep the accuracy when u throw it , and you could always use it for spear fishing (the kind where u stand on a shallow river and spear the fish from above)

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## flandersander

thats the plan. I was also wondering about refraction. i've read it was behind but does anybodu know for sure?

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## flandersander

really nobody knows about refraction? forsure?

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## flandersander

OK well i tried the piano wire thing. its great. Crashdive I would recomend it. i used 3/32 music wire and inserted it into a piece of 1/4 inch doweling. its wicked and holds a sharp point forever. it took like an hour to sharpen.

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## beerrunner13

Ned why don't you hook up with Rambo Jr there and try some boom bait, I'm sure he will make you up a batch.

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## flandersander

Not totally sure i would want to, let alone wheather it's legal or not. Also i'm not 100% sure you could send an envelope of dinomite in the mail. lol.

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## marberry

Am i Rambo Jr lol? dynamite is hard to make because the active ingredient (nitroglycerin) is extremely unstable during mixing, and you need some hard to get chemicals. 

And i would never fish with dynamite ,  its wastfull and its stupid. if i saw someone fishing with dynamite i just might bury them in the woods...

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## Beo

And that was a wasteful and stupid comment, best bet is leave and tell the law.
I will admit that water explosions look cool though :Big Grin:

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## Rick

(slowly shaking head in disgust).

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## Alpine_Sapper

> Not totally sure i would want to, let alone wheather it's legal or not. Also i'm not 100% sure you could send an envelope of dinomite in the mail. lol.



No no no...you use plastique and a magnesium...oh, never mind.

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## Beo

Yeah getting our hands on plastique explosives is soooo easy.

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## Alpine_Sapper

> Yeah getting our hands on plastique explosives is soooo easy.


First, I was just joking about the whole letter bomb bit, but if you want, there are a thousand recipes for it online. Some may actually be stable enough that they won't kill you in the production process.

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## Beo

My bad Alpine, I had to go and didn't get to finish my post.

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## Alpine_Sapper

> My bad Alpine, I had to go and didn't get to finish my post.


No harm, no foul.

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## beerrunner13

By the way I was jokeing also, sure don't want to hurt anyones feelings.

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## flandersander

Well i may be suffering from some mental anguish. I dunno i think I may get over it. so anyways what does anybody think about my music wire spear?

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## Beo

Beerrunner13, now behave ya know we got sensitive types on here :Big Grin: 
flandersander, the frog gig works I've done it and they are cheap to buy.

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## flandersander

I was thinking of a frog gig. thanks alot beo!

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## beerrunner13

> Beerrunner13, now behave ya know we got sensitive types on here
> flandersander, the frog gig works I've done it and they are cheap to buy.


Sorry but after 2 pages of what if when a 3 dooar gig will do I just had to.sometimes I am so insensitive. Slaps self upside head

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## Eagles Talon

I have seen a few ways, basically, being in a dug-out with a spear with 3,preferably bone, barbs, i tared mine on then bound them, and hitting the fish from above. Alternatively you get a sling like contraption that you use to fling the spear with somethign like 4 times the force, because of the extra length of your reach as you launch it forwards. Finally a small slingshot, with little spears, they are ok for small fish, but you would need larger spears or arrows for that.

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## flandersander

yeah. for a perch though i think a small dart will do.

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## marberry

um beowulf i know you dont really care but you can make plastique from bleach (1 gallon)  as long as it has 5.25% sodium hypochlorate and you have a stove a battery hydrometer a large pyrex container a triple beam balence and some potassium chloride (63 grams) (sold at health stores as a salt substitute)

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## flandersander

Eagles Talons, what kind of spear would you recomend for perch? panfish?

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## Rick

It's been nice knowing you, Marcraft. Have your folks post the obit.

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## Eagles Talon

I would probably go for the slingshot with some...maybe 10cm darts, depending on the size of the fish, since 1lb is average 10cm should do, maybe being in a boat. I mean its up to you, and different styles and methods suit different people and the fish they use. Just try experimenting with different ways.

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## flandersander

sounds good. what exactly do you mean by 10cm darts? like 3/16th dowel with wn exactoknife blade tip?

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## Ryleyboy

what i found worked amazing is by taking two nails and hammering them in at the top so they stick out the sides. then bend the tips of the nails so there facing forward with the tip of the spear. works everytime . ive even managed to hit gophers with it to.

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## nell67

> what i found worked amazing is by taking two nails and hammering them in at the top so they stick out the sides. then bend the tips of the nails so there facing forward with the tip of the spear. works everytime . ive even managed to hit gophers with it to.


 Ryley,please tell me that when you hit the gopher,it died instantly,you didn't hit it and let it go off injured,did you?

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## Ryleyboy

no it died instantly.

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## Rick

Golly, how did I know that would be the answer? Hmmm. You do know it's illegal to spear any fur bearing animal in Saskatchewan right? Perhaps you should spend some time reading your hunting and trapping rules. See page 11 or do a search for spear. 

http://www.environment.gov.sk.ca/adx...ting+Guide.pdf

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## Ole WV Coot

> Beerrunner13, now behave ya know we got sensitive types on here
> flandersander, the frog gig works I've done it and they are cheap to buy.


When I did gig frogs and fish with pointy things frog gigs were readily available as were fish gigs. I think there was a season for both in KY. I can remember having a 4 & 5 prong fish gig, may still be in the barn, anyway you do need a barb on whatever you use for a prong and puncture would need to go thru the body or pin whatever down.

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## LostOutrider

I'm a little more concerned with his seeming fascination with killing/hurting smaller furry things in a variety of ways.  Hunting is one thing.  This has shades of something else entirely.

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## Ameriborn

> I'm a little more concerned with his seeming fascination with killing/hurting smaller furry things in a variety of ways.  Hunting is one thing.  This has shades of something else entirely.


Yea, what that says. I saw a movie where, well I am not going to explain it, but it was very disturbing to say the least.

I would advise reading the Rules and Regs, as Rick pointed out. It isn't cool to cause an animal pain just for the sake of doing that. If you kill it instantly and are going to use it, that is a different story, but whacking something with a stick with a nail in it? Kind of cruel.

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## Ole WV Coot

You guys are right. Kinda went over my head. I think that's enough from me on killing anything.

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## Ryleyboy

we dont whack them will sticks..and all we are doing is balancing there population

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## LostOutrider

Um.   Yeah.

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## Ryleyboy

anyways back to fishing....

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## Rick

> all we are doing is balancing there population


That's a very misinformed statement. How do you know the population isn't on the verge of collapse already? You have no need to kill an animal just to kill an animal. That's not how it's supposed to work. We are stewards of the environment. Or should be. That means we owe the plants and animals our respect. It doesn't mean we don't hunt them it just means we don't indiscriminately kill them or cause them unnecessary pain and suffering. It does mean we use as much of the animal as possible once we do kill it not just leave its carcass to rot.

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## Beo

> we dont whack them will sticks..and all we are doing is balancing there population


Sorry, but you said you drive nails into the sticks and bend them forward, smack them with the stick and kill instantly. So you do whack them with a stick. 
1. Listen to what Rick said in all his posts to you.
2. There are better ways of taking an animal than whacking it with a stick with nails in it.
3. If your doing that then you probably shouldn't be hunting them.
4. No animal deserves to be treated, hunted like that.
5. Hunting an animal just to hunt it and not eating and using as much of the animal as you can is just plain wrong. As Rick said you are a steward of the woods, game is taken for food and fur not for the fun of hunting and killing it.
6. Who made you at your age the one to balance any population?
Beo,

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## Ole WV Coot

Beo is right. Hunters have a bad enough reputation and some people have added road signs. Don't contribute to it.

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## Ryleyboy

we dont whack them... we do respect them at our farm but they are destroying things ,

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## nell67

Then how exaclty do you kill them,with a stick,if you are not whacking them?

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## Beo

My point exactly lil-sis, a hunter has to be responsible or he shouldn't be in the woods, we hunters get enough flak over our hunting and this leads to more flak from people who post things and do things like this.
You can't really respect an animal if you take a stick with nails and smack/whack/or clobber it with it, respect means learning about the animal, finding how it lives, what it eats, its tracks, and taking it for food and other uses.

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## Beo

> what i found worked amazing is by taking two nails and hammering them in at the top so they stick out the sides. then bend the tips of the nails so there facing forward with the tip of the spear. works everytime . ive even managed to hit gophers with it to.


 This is not hunting, find a way to get rid of the gophers. And what do you do with the gophers after you whack them with a stick & nails?

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## Ryleyboy

We spear them and hit mabye one a week,, we throw the stick and try to hit them, we dont wack them ..

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## nell67

Either way,it's just wrong,there are better ways to dispatch an animal than that,I bet 9 out of 10 of them do NOT die instantly,they feel pain and suffer too ya know.

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## Beo

> We spear them and hit mabye one a week,, we throw the stick and try to hit them, we dont wack them ..


Oh yeah that makes a big difference.... lol... you aren't getting it.
You throw the stick with nails and try to hit them, spear them, and maybe hit one a week. That will not kill them quickly, and there are better ways to dispatch an animal. Heck a .22 would be better, or a snare or deadfall.
A *gopher* is a small burrowing rodent that comes in many varieties including:
Pocket gophers of the family Geomyidae, native to North America, also called true gophers. 
"Many ground squirrels" among the family of Sciuridaes (particularly Richardson's Ground Squirrel, _Spermophilus richardsonii_ ). 
Gophers weigh about 1/2 pound, with the head and body about 6 inches long, a tail of 3 inches and have a 2-3 year lifespan (assuming no diseases or predation).
All gophers have in common, the digging of tunnels, subterranean chambers, and the association with the rodent order, Rodentia. Disruption of such human plans for the surface as commercial agriculture, garden plots, and some landscaping, by their underground activities, leads to their frequent treatment as pests. In contrast, North American entertainment culture and non-technical literature tends to anthropomorphize gopher characters as "non-threatening".
Gophers will create a large community of tunnels with large mounds of dirt at their entrances - these are frequently referred to as "towns". Adult gophers will frequently stand watch at the entrance to a tunnel and whistle when predators are spotted, causing all the other gophers to run for the safety of the tunnels. A gopher town can easily spread to take over large sections of prairie or mountain meadow and may have a population in the thousands. The resulting destruction of plant life will then leave the area a stretch of denuded dirt.
Hope this helps.
Beo,

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## trax

boy sometimes I just have to take a deep breath after sorting through the crap. Anyone wants to try whacking and/or spearing animals the way described here, please keep it to yourself for future reference, hopefully you will learn something from some of the real hunters who post here. 

Explosives? I've had enough of the crap in here on explosives. Grow up. Explosives are for people who know what they're doing with them. Fishing with explosives? Personally, you just got something in common with the spear hunter above, you make me sick. If someone takes that as a personal attack, suck it up princess.

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## Beo

Bro, that is one board dude with nothing to do but play Whack-a-mole with his gophers. But I agree with ya.

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## Beo

Here's ways to control your gopher problem its a huge deal for your farm.
*Control Methods*
Gopher populations can be reduced or eliminated over a considerable area with persistent control efforts. Control is best conducted when gophers are most active near the surface, usually in the spring or fall. New activity is usually indicated by fresh mounds of soil. At other times, labor and
material may be wasted in treating unoccupied runways. Control methods include poisoning, trapping, flooding, gassing, encouraging natural enemies, and exclusion. The two most practical and efficient methods are using toxic baits and trapping. Over large and heavily infested areas, poisoning is the most economical control method. Gophers not killed
by poisoning will throw up fresh mounds and these individuals can be trapped. On small areas, such as lawns or where only a few animals are involved, trapping is the most practical method.
*Toxicants*
Pocket gophers can be killed in large numbers with poisoned bait. Strychnine, either alkaloid or sulfate, is quite effective. Root vegetables, such as carrots or sweet potatoes, cut to conveniently small sizes and dusted with strychnine are excellent baits. Grain baits, such as corn, oats, wheat, and grain sorghum are readily eaten in some localities and often
give better results in fall when pocket gophers are storing much of their food. These prepared baits can often be obtained from local garden supply stores or from pest control operators. Two baiting methods are effective. The first involves dropping baits by hand into underground runways. This
procedure is easier if a probe is used to find the tunnel and to make a hole through which bait can be inserted. Probes can be bluntly pointed brooms, shovel handles, or pipes. A good probe can be made of three-fourths inch gas pipe welded to a blunt point and cut 34 inches long. A T joint which
slips over the main probe makes a movable foot-rest. To locate the main runway, probe into the soil four to ten inches from the base of the mound, usually on the side nearest the circular depression, or probe between two fresh mounds. Enlarge the opening by rotating the probe so that
poisoned baits may be dropped into the burrow. Use two to three pieces of vegetable bait or one level tablespoon of grain bait. Close the opening with grass and cover with dirt to keep out light and air. Make one application for every four to six fresh mounds.
Place the baits in the main runways with as little disturbance as possible. Toxic baits left on the surface will not be found by gophers, but they may endanger other wild or domestic animals. If the mounds are leveled as you work the area, gophers that escape treatment will make new mounds
you can easily detect. Additional baits or traps may then be placed where needed. The second baiting method uses a tractor-drawn machine called a burrow-builder. This machine make artificial burrows and automatically drops toxic baits into them. The burrow builder, developed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, is especially useful for large areas. It is recommended for use when soil moisture permits good compaction
so burrows will not collapse. In most areas, soil conditions are best in the spring or fall. The effectiveness of the machine depends upon the
gophers finding the artificial runways and the poisoned bait. Hence, the machine must be set so artificial burrows will intercept the greatest possible number of natural gopher tunnels. Under average conditions, ten acres of land can be treated per hour using one and a half to three pounds of treated grain.
Strychnine-treated grain baits consisting of mixtures of whole oats and cracked corn, cracked corn and grain sorghum (maize), or 100 percent grain sorghum have been used with excellent results. Materials used for poisoning gophers are dangerous to man and other animals. So, extreme caution should be used when handling, storing, or applying these toxic substances. All labels on toxicants should be read and followed closely.
*Trapping*
Special traps are required for trapping pocket gophers. Small spring traps of varying sizes are widely used. Another popular type is a box trap
with a choker loop. Two traps of appropriate size should be placed in the main runway, one set in each direction. This makes a trap-set. Using a stout garden trowel or a lightweight shovel, find the freshest mound and follow a lateral from the mound to the main runway. Clear a place in the main runway large enough for two traps, disturbing the surrounding area as little as possible. Set the pan or treadle so that traps can be easily sprung. Insert the traps, jaws forward, into the hole facing in opposite directions and press them down firmly. Cover the opening in the burrow with a clod or a handful of grass to cut off most of the light.

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## Ryleyboy

well i could try my dads .22 or even trapping them . i have a bunch of old traps that should work..

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## trax

Ryleyboy, I know you told us this already, but refresh my memory for me. How old are you? Have you been trained with a firearm? Safety first, partner and check with someone about the traps you're using, there's different sets for different critters and you're gonna want to get used to that.

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## Beo

If your under 18, listen to what Trax is saying... please. If you have no prior firearms training then PLEASE LEAVE THEM ALONE. Here's an idea.... try learning about what you want to hunt and trap or rid the farm of.

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## Ryleyboy

yes i do have my firearm and hunter safty license.. and have much expirence with a gun

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## Ryleyboy

but i know nothing of trapping . barley nothing..

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## bulrush

> I tried a lot of the spearing methods you see in survival manuals. Most of them are a joke, in fact it was the least productive. I can catch fish by hand more successfully than with the spear. If you do try the spear method, you must fire harden the end and add a barb. Even this method looks better on TV than in real life. It took 20 tries to spear one. Has anyone had any success at spear fishing? Any tips?


You have half the equation: fire hardening and a barb. 

The other half is knowing which way the image of the fish is refracted, and in which direction. Only intense practice can tell you this. However, after practicing for an hour I learned how to account for refraction. Now if I could only remember how I did it.

Because light bends when it goes through the water's surface, the image of the fish you see does not represent its actual location. If your spear hits the image of the fish you will never hit the actual fish. I believe it is about an inch closer to the sun. So if the sun is to your right, try spearing 1 inch to the right of the fish you see. You should at least feel that your spear has grazed the fish. 

And so, you have found out the same thing I have. That many many survival manuals and shows leave out critical details, details you could only learn by actually doing the activity in question.

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## Beo

Good point bulrush, 
Refraction can be seen when looking into a bowl of water. Air has a refractive index of about 1.0003, and water has a refractive index of about 1.33. If a person looks at a straight object, such as a pencil or straw, which is placed at a slant, partially in the water, the object appears to bend at the water's surface. This is due to the bending of light rays as they move from the water to the air. Once the rays reach the eye, the eye traces them back as straight lines (lines of sight). The lines of sight (shown as dashed lines) intersect at a higher position than where the actual rays originated. This causes the pencil to appear higher and the water to appear shallower than it really is. The depth that the water appears to be when viewed from above is known as the _apparent depth_. This is an important consideration for spearfishing from the surface because it will make the target fish appear to be in a different place, and the fisher must aim lower to catch the fish.
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
Y is what you see, X is where the pencil really is.
So you'd have to aim back or left or right of what you really see.

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## Beo

Back on track to spear fishing, try this link on Army Ranger Rick's site. It is great for what you want to learn.
http://www.therangerdigest.com/Tips%...ear%20fish.htm

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## flandersander

I have a gofur problem aswell. I actually know ryleyboy, but that doesn't really matter. I was thinking trapping, but I have no idea how. Been looking but could only find pocket gofur trapping. They are what we call "13 stripers" and richerdson ground squirrels. I have no idea the proper name for the "13 stripers", but I do know, they have black stripes on thier backs, and I assume 13 stripes. I really know though how many stripes there really are. So my question is, what kind of trapping setups are there, using legholds, are there, and which work the best?

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## Ryleyboy

keagan just do it the way u told me you know when the gopher goes down the hole but the small foothold upside down on the whole and when it pokes his head up the trap with go off and catch its head.. use a Nagra special for the trap or something small like that..

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## Beo

See the sticky on trapping in the *Survival Food: Foraging, Hunting, Fishing, and Trapping*, and forum, it should help.

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## Rick

Ground squirrels! Man, those things are dummer than dirt. You can catch them without any sort of bait at all. I've caught them in a Havahart Squirrel, Chipmunk, & Rat Trap, Two Doors trap. 

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Just set it up and they will run right through it and trap themselves. I haul off 8 -10 of them every summer.

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## Beo

Rick I use one of those for opposum and coon sometimes, even cats  :Big Grin:  they are great. Peanut butter bait is shoved to the back and viola... caught. Mines got one door and a solid back though.

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## Ryleyboy

do you know were you can order those online.. can you post the link please.

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## Beo

Those are LIVE ANIMAL cage traps, for trapping not for catching and hurting, just to be clear.
http://www.rpoutdoors.com/cagetraps.html
They also have mole and gopher traps. This is where I get alot of my traps from. Check out their baits, callers, and snares,
and the books and mags on trapping.

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## Ryleyboy

thanks for the info on these cage traps.. i know i should drop the gopher thing but i probably could catch them in these and then just release them somewere else were there not a nuisance .. i would have to get the right size tho.

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## Beo

Any size will work, and catch and release is good but being live animal traps becareful animals bite, wear thick gloves.

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## BillJackson2019

How can I pick out the best product from those listed on this site?
Never mind.  I'm just another spammer.

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## Rick

Personally, and a favorite of mine, is this....Notice how effectively Crash used it? That was on the list wasn't it? 

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