# Survival > Survival Kits & Survival Products >  What kind of blade to start with?

## davidgraef

Hello, im looking at buying a knife for christmas or my birthday because all i have had is an 8 dollar Ozark knife from walmart! I've used it for a couple years but the more and more i have been camping, im looking into getting a bigger knife with a fixed blade. but i dont know what i should look for specifically. whether i should get a machete, or a khukuri, or a bigger knife and maybe a hatchet. if you guys could just help me out on knowing what some of the benefits and disadvantages of each of those are, that would be a huge help!

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## Rick

So, do they have Wal-Marts in Hungary, too? That's where you're coming in from.

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## crashdive123

Get a Crashblade.

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## davidgraef

where can i get a crashblade? I dont have the tools or friends to make one

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## crashdive123

> where can i get a crashblade? i dont have the tools or friends to make one


Before I answer that - I'm curious where you went to WalMart since there are none in your country.

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## davidgraef

i said i got it in the states when i was there a few years ago. lol

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## crashdive123

Gotcha.  As far as the Crashblades go - they are something that I make.  One of them will be auctioned for our forum charity in a few days.  You can see it here http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...nife-Build-WIP

Also - there are a few blades for sale in our forum marketplace.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ed-Marketplace

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## davidgraef

ok thankyou. how much do the crashblades generally go for? are they always auctions? or if i asked you to make one specifically for me, can you do that? and if so how much would it cost?

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## crashdive123

I honestly wasn't trying to sell you a knife.  I did send you a PM with a few pictures in case you are interested.  I would encourage you to check the knives that are for sale in the marketplace that I gave you the link for.  Also look at the signature in Rick's response to you.  Don't know if he ships to Hungary, but he has a real good on-line store at Safe Zone.

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## hunter63

Before you get carried away....What are you lacking as far as your use of the Ozark knife?

Is this it? A folder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBcwABu7x28

Looking for a fixed blade, any idea what size your looking for?.

Are you gonna use it for hunting or general camp work?

A camp knife tends to be larger and thicker than a hunting knife.

BTW Crashblades are very nice..........

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## Aurelius95

Surely you could get a Mora blade.  After all, it's a European knife.  They make sturdy, inexpensive knives.

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## Sourdough

If I owned "NO" knives, and could only ever own one knife for life, it would be the Becker BK-2. The weak link for most fixed balde knives is the leather sheath.

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## Rick

No, I don't ship outside of North America. 

The BK-2 is an excellent knife. 

You are going to pay a small fortune for American made knives because shipping to Europe is outrageous unless it is bulk shipped, which is why I don't ship there. There are some excellent knives made right there that should be very inexpensive and provide you excellent quality. Mora, Opinel, Brusletto, Boker, Hartkopf or Puma are just a few that would be good choices in my opinion.

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## crashdive123

I received a PM from davidgraef.  Without going into details, any knife he selects will be sent to an address in the United States.

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## Rick

Int that case......never mind.

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## davidgraef

ok so, basically, i know nothing about knives and thats why im asking. I dont need one for hunting, and i want one that will last a long time. I also dont want to spend a whole lot on my first one, but i dont want to get a cheap one that wont last either. so my price range is 30 - 50 dollars. In response to hunter63, that is the knife, and i love it. its great! it has lasted a long time, its not to big but not to small, but i do want a fixed knife that i dont have to worry that the blade will come loose or something. 

As for the size, i dont know lol. what are the benefits of a smaller or bigger blade? if i were to get a bigger blade, then why not just get a machete or something? like i said, i dont really know anything but im trying to learn, so just about ANYTHING you have to say will be helpful to me!

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## davidgraef

> I honestly wasn't trying to sell you a knife.  I did send you a PM with a few pictures in case you are interested.  I would encourage you to check the knives that are for sale in the marketplace that I gave you the link for.  Also look at the signature in Rick's response to you.  Don't know if he ships to Hungary, but he has a real good on-line store at Safe Zone.


haha, i know your not trying to sell me anything, but i was asking so its ok. and i did look at the store and safe zone, and will continue to look through those. thankyou for mentioning them.

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## finallyME

You can also look at Muela knives.  They are made in Spain.  I bought one while I was in Poland.  Unfortunately, mine was stolen.

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## socom2173

You would be limited only by your budget.
 Mora, Becker, Esee ( I own knifes from all 3 ) are all big values.
I would save up a few bucks and buy one from Esee.

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## davidgraef

> You would be limited only by your budget.
>  Mora, Becker, Esee ( I own knifes from all 3 ) are all big values.
> I would save up a few bucks and buy one from Esee.


you said save a few bucks from Esee? they seem to be more expensive, not cheaper.

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## Phaedrus

He said _save up a few bucks_, *not* _save a few bucks_.  The ESEE is more expensive but it's a cut above a Mora or Becker.

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## davidgraef

oh ok lol thankyou

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## kyratshooter

There is really no need to ship hardware all the way from the states.  All you need is available on the European market and is available at reasonable prices for a person on a budget.

Openil makes fine folding knives for general use, Mora makes all you will ever need in a fixed blade and Fiskers makes fine camp axes and hatchets for general purpose work.  I have all of them represented in my kit and never feel under equipped when using any or all of those items.  There is seldom a day that passes without me being in the field with one of those items.

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## davidgraef

and which Mora Blade do you have and why? what do you need in a knife that helped you decide that the blade you have is the one you need?

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## KhonHd

> If I owned "NO" knives, and could only ever own one knife for life, it would be the Becker BK-2. The weak link for most fixed balde knives is the leather sheath.


I will second (or third) the Becker knives.  I was originally going to get the BK-2 but ended up with the BK-7.  Similar knifes, difference being the BK-2 has a 1/4 blade; BK-7 is 3/16.  The BK-7 is also 2 longer (local supplier had the BK-7 in stock, thats why I went that route).
The BK-2 and BK-7 use 1095 carbon steel and it really holds an edge and takes an edge.  I use mine hard and it just requires a little touch up from time to time (I use the Spyderco sharpmaker).

An example:  
Spring bear hunt.  Tracked the bear until 1:30 am.  Chopped down a 2 maple to use as a pole to carry the bear out.  Field dressed the bear including cutting the sternum bottom to top and chopping through the pelvis to get the butt out (didnt have a saw and it was too dark to mess around with tying it off and cutting out).  All of this was no effort with the BK-7
Next day skinned the bear and butchered it.  All without sharpening it!  I didnt have the sharpmaker at the time or I probably would have touched it up prior to butchering.  But to be honest, it didnt need it.

Absolutely my favourite knife.  I just wish I could get my Benchmake 710 to take an edge so well.

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## davidgraef

ive looked at some videos on the Kbar and it also seems like a great knife for the price. what would be some advantages of getting maybe a mora instead of a kbar? what are some disadvantages of the kbar? lol because i dont plan on using it for combat haha

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## socom2173

Depends on what you need your knife to do...

It also depends on your enviroment and the season. If you needed to process firewood the Mora knife would not be up to it. 
You would then also need to pack along a hachet which would negate its price/weight advantage.

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## davidgraef

but if i already have a machete, that could process firewood as well as a Kabar Combat knife right? so between the machete and the mora knife, for 3 season camping, that should be sufficient right? i mean, i dont plan on building a log house either, so i dont need much more right?

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## Rick

Folks try to out think knives. I don't know why but they do more so than any other tool. If you need to drive a nail you go get a hammer. You don't obsess over the type of head, it's weight or handle. You just get a hammer and drive a nail (I know that's not true if you are a carpenter or roofer. But in general that's true). Same for removing a nut. You grab a wrench or a socket and just do it. Knives are just another tool. Most are designed to do a specific function but can overlap into other jobs just like you can use a hammer to crack a nut. Machetes clear dense brush, combat knives are for combat, axes are for cutting and splitting wood, hunting knives for hunting, etc.

I carry a large knife, a medium knife, a pocket knife and a folding saw. I can generally do whatever I want to do with those four. If I can't do it then it usually doesn't need to be done all that bad. Just my humble opinion.

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## Sourdough

Rick, that was a good post. I'll add a few thoughts. One: The preponderance of users are people who live in urban environments, go into the wilderness for short recreational visits. Two: One's thinking shifts if the period is longer. 

 When I was guiding hunters, and the company would drop me off in the wilderness for three months, I would carry seven to ten different shaped knives in my pack, this was mostly to avoid having to sharpen a knife while processing game, but also to ensure that the needed shape and size knife was available.

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## davidgraef

ok, i think i understand. basically, the most important thing i can do is get outside and find out what i need in a knife. so i do have one more question. i know myself, and i know i would need a knife that will be durable and last a long time. what would you guys suggest is a knife that can handle being used roughly? of a considerable price range.

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## davidgraef

i have a more specific question now. im going to take the general advice of all of you and go with a mora blade. they are cheaper which is a big plus, but seem to be pretty strong as well. my question is, what is the difference between carbon steel and stainless steel? i know stainless steel wont rust, but what are some other differences? i found a site that sells a mora companion for 13 bucks (can i post the link? im not affiliated with the site at all) and its carbon steel.

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## crashdive123

Yes, you can post links as long as you are not affiliated with the site.  As to your question of stainless vs carbon steel there are several things to consider.
1.  Stainless steel is rust resistant, not rust proof (lots of various grades of stainless available, some are even high carbon)
2.  What environment will it be used in?  For wet (especially around salt water) environments ss might be a better choice.
3.  Difficulty in sharpening.  I find that carbon steel takes a little more effort to sharpen, but holds an edge better.  To me the difference in sharpening is negligible.
4.  Using with natural flint?  While both will throw sparks with a ferro rod (carbon is better IMO) carbon is far superior when using natural flint - again - IMO.

Overall, I prefer carbon steel blades.  They require a little more care, but I believe they have more character.  There are some very high grades of stainless steel that make excellent knives.  I just prefer carbon steel.

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## davidgraef

ok awesome thankyou for the help.

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## crashdive123

Keep in mind - a lot of what I said is personal preference based on opinion.  Opinions do vary.  By starting with a Mora you will not be investing a lot of $$$ and can better formulate your own opinions.

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## davidgraef

ok, heres the link, http://edcdepot.com/moracompanionmod...teelblade.aspx and in general carbon steel is stronger, but takes more care right? and with the flint, i dont use flint cuz i dont have one. i have just been using matches

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## socom2173

That one would do very well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CizBaI6SBgY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_HMD...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhRGu...eature=related


(I would avoid the ones with wood handles, they are not as strong.)

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## davidgraef

how well does the carbon steel do in the cold? like anywhere between 15-30 degrees Fahrenheit? is it something i should be careful about? or not worry about?

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## KhonHd

The only issue with carbon steel is like any material when it comes in from the cold, to a warm area, moisture will condense on it.  Since you dont want to keep carbon steel wet for long periods of time (rust) just give it wipe with a rag and a light coat of oil.  

That takes minimal effort and gives you a chance to admire a nice blade...

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## davidgraef

ok thank you!

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## kyratshooter

> That one would do very well.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CizBaI6SBgY
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_HMD...eature=related
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhRGu...eature=related
> 
> ...



The wood handles are full tang, the plastic handles are only half or 3/4 tang, so the wood handle should be as strong or stronger than the plastic handles Moras.  On top of that the laminated blade wood handles are some of the best outdoor blades on the market.

I have seen guys drive the Moras into trees and use them as steps to climb the tree.  They are not going to fall apart half way through skinning a deer and I do not plan on stabbing any sheetmetal with any of my knives so the distruction test has little influnce on my choices.  

Carbon steel/stainless steel?  You kids need to keep in mind that humans have been surviving outdoors, working in the kitchen and fighting wars with carbon steel blades for close to 5,000 years.  All you do is wipe the blade off and put a bit of oil on it now and then and you will be fine.

Any Mora you pick will be twice the knife that cheapa## Ozark Trail you are carrying now is.  Just shell out the $8 and get one!

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## davidgraef

ive already bought one. through the link i provided. also, lol, my ozark trail knife haha, i was batoning with it and it bent the lock back, so that it was further inside the knife, stopping the blade from shutting, so i put a coin from behind to try to bend it back it it just snapped off, so that was pretty good incentive to buy a fixed blade for 18 bucks lol




> The wood handles are full tang, the plastic handles are only half or 3/4 tang, so the wood handle should be as strong or stronger than the plastic handles Moras.  On top of that the laminated blade wood handles are some of the best outdoor blades on the market.
> 
> Carbon steel/stainless steel?  You kids need to keep in mind that humans have been surviving outdoors, working in the kitchen and fighting wars with carbon steel blades for close to 5,000 years.  All you do is wipe the blade off and put a bit of oil on it now and then and you will be fine.
> 
> Any Mora you pick will be twice the knife that cheapa## Ozark Trail you are carrying now is.  Just shell out the $8 and get one!

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## Rick

Socom - Why are you of the opinion the wood handled Moras are not as strong? They are the same blades in a different handle. Mora only makes one kind of carbon steel blade. They are all treated to 59-60 on the Rockwell scale.

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## crashdive123

I've purchased several wooden handled Mora knives.  Not only do they hold up as well as any other of the Mora knives I use, but they have more "character" than the plastic or rubberized handles.

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## socom2173

I would agree they are all similar on the blade end, Its the handle itself I was refering to.  
 I have seen the wood handle "classic" break when pressed into hard use, It just started getting loose then it cracked and fell apart.
Because Wood is softer than plastic and compresses when stressed,
The plastic is harder and doesn't "give " like the wood does so it doesn't get loose.
 I have put far more stress on my plastic handled models and they are as thight as they ever were.


This is just an opinion from my own experience.

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## Rick

Mea Culpa. I thought you were speaking of the blade.

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## socom2173

"Socom - Why are you of the opinion the wood handled Moras are not as strong? They are the same blades in a different handle. *Mora only makes one kind of carbon steel blade*. They are all treated to 59-60 on the Rockwell scale."

From what I understand there are diffenences, some of the newer plastic handled models use a "laminated carbon blade. This is a three part sandwich, with a core of high carbon steel protected by sides of tough lower carbon steel. The core of the laminated steel blades is 61-62." While the "Classic Models" have "a carbon steel (not laminated) blade."   
http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html

 There are also differences in blade thickness and length. Does it make a difference?..

I found this video of someone doing a review on the "Classic" style. The tip broke on the first stab into a 2x4.
 If you compare it to the 5 miutes and 20 seconds of abuse in the other video, you'll see the blade does look much stronger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ-Jqnh9rYA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_HMD...eature=related

Again, this is the impression I got. I don't want to start a debate so come to your own conclusion.

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## Rick

Mora only makes four blades. The same ones they've made for years. 

*Stainless steel* Knife blades are made of hardenable  stainless steel- Sandvik 12C27 (hardened to HRC 57-58).

*Carbon steel* Knife blades of high carbon steel can be  hardened to HRC 59-60 giving best possible sharpness to lowest price. 

*Triflex* This modified carbon steel is best described as  a material between laminated steel and plain carbon steel hardened to HRC 59-60  with a softer surface that improves the tensile strength considerably. Though it  will not allow bending as laminated steel.

*Laminated steel 
*This  steel grade is unique to knives from Mora. The core of the blade is of  high carbon steel surrounded by a softer alloyed steel layer. (HRC 61)

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## davidgraef

hey, i just also wanted to let you guys know the final price i paid for that mora blade, shipped to my school in hungary. Ebay was the other place i was looking for one, but even the used ones, i couldnt find that cheap. 

Subtotal:	$12.99
Discounts:	-$0.65
Shipping & Handling:	$2.17
Tax:	$0.00
Order Total:	$14.51

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## Rick

There's something wrong with that. Shipping from NJ to Hungary is over $11.00. If that's what you paid they lost money on the deal.

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## crashdive123

Hope it arrives as expected.

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## davidgraef

yeah well im happy

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## Rick

Yeah, me too. Wait, what were we talkin' about?

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## davidgraef

lol im happy with the price i paid for the knife i got....did you pay 15 bucks for the knife i got? if so i hope your happy

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## davidgraef

My knife arrived today! How can i post pictures to show you? also, id like some ideas on how i can modify it.

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## Rick

You just got a new knife and you want to modify it? Why not work with it and see how it works for YOU. 

As to the pictures, you can load them to photobucket, the account is free, size them on photobucket to 600 X 400 and copy and past the photobucket code in your post. It's really pretty simple.

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## Zen buds

I recommend haveing 3 knives out in the field.  1. A folding knive, I use something from CRKT.  2. A fixed blade knife/survival knife, I like CRKT, SOG or Ka-bar.  3. A machete, I use the Ka-bar kukri.  An axe of some sort is hady as well.  I have a few different SOG tactical tomahowks and love them.

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## Warheit

That's a good suggestion, Zen.   I personally have one small pocket knife blade and a Gerber paraframe saw and blade.   Looking into a smaller sized machete, perhaps the Gator Jr. from Gerber to add to my arsenal.

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## davidgraef

Ok, thankyou. Ive got a Mora Clipper 860 mg and a machete, but i dont know what kind. I know its a military issued machete made in 1945. It also says "True Temper" but i dont know if thats who made it or what. heres a picture if someone could tell me something about it that would be awesome!

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## kyratshooter

Davidgraef, we are going to have to teach you about the usefullness of Google.

True Temper machette/1945, gave me 38,000 hits and the first 10 provided all the info anyone would ever need on the item.

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## davidgraef

thankyou very much!

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## Rick

You might want to put that machete and scabbard some place safe. They fetch between $80-$100 U.S. today. Either that or sell it and buy 6 or 7 machetes with the proceeds.

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## Sarge47

David, I have deliberately avoided this thread until you bought a knife, and I'm glad you chose the Mora.  I own two, both with plastic handles and stainless steel blades; I like them both very much.  As for a machete, don't use it for chopping wood, they're not made for that.  You need an ax for that job.  machetes are for clearing brush!  Happy trails!   :Wavey:

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## davidgraef

> You might want to put that machete and scabbard some place safe. They fetch between $80-$100 U.S. today. Either that or sell it and buy 6 or 7 machetes with the proceeds.


where do they fetch that kind of a price? i've looked on ebay and they seem to be about 20-30 bucks.

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## Kortoso

I don't know about the Mora; I generally avoid knives that don't have guards, although I do have a Helle Viking. 
viking-new.jpg
My favorite knife right now is my cold steel recon tanto.
31H3D9993CL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

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## Rick

The tanto blade doesn't do anything for me. I don't have any chainmail to breach or armor to defeat.

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## Winter

The CS Recon tanto, despite the tanto point, is a proven midsize tool. You wouldn't believe the number of special ops type guys that carry and use them. 

Non combat stuff too, Army stuff. 

I despise tanto points myself, but I know some serious bushfolk that use that knife. Most aren't even tantos anymore after all the sharpening.

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## rockriver

I'm right there with you Winter...but they are very easy to make.  Break the blade, no problem.  It was already square anyway.

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## Wildthang

A friend of mine who is just getting into survival just bought an " Amazon Survival Knife ", and it is the biggest ugliest thing I have ever seen, with the survival kit in the handle, and the compass on the end.
He brought it over last week to show it to me, and I almost broke out laughing when I saw it. He was saying that a good survivor could survive with this knife alone, and my stomach was convulsing trying not to laugh.
I showed him my little Buck fixed blade, and told him that someday, he would prefer a smaller knife, and that the Amazon would teach him why.
I am sure the handle will fall off if he ever uses it!

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## crashdive123

Just getting into survival?  What was he into before that - dying?

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## Wildthang

> Just getting into survival?  What was he into before that - dying?


He is 50 years old and probably has never as much as been camping, and now is very interested in learning survival skills. Is that better?

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## hunter63

Yes.....LOL, (Man some guys are picky, picky, picky)....I never went surviving...on purpose....LOl

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## canid

It's not a darned tanto point dagnabit! it's 'american tanto'. It's really nothing like a shinogi-zukuri. carry on.

 :Big Grin:

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## kyratshooter

> I don't know about the Mora; I generally avoid knives that don't have guards, although I do have a Helle Viking.


In the Scandinavian countries the move from a knife with a guard to one without a guard is one of the rights of passage to adulthood.  If your knife has a guard on it you are still considered a kid that has not learned proper knifecraft.

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## Rick

Look, I'll get the hang of it sooner or later then dad will give me a big boy knife. Your jokes about my knife having a guard are slicing thin. (get it? slicing thin? I slay myself).

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## hunter63

Wow this is getting too hard for me.......
Like this one? 
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-...ife-90714.html

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

I actually have one that was a well meaning gift......not sure what to do with it?

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## Wildthang

> Wow this is getting too hard for me.......
> Like this one? 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-...ife-90714.html
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> I actually have one that was a well meaning gift......not sure what to do with it?



Ha! That is a whole lot like the one that a friend has, only his is black! It is so big, it hangs over half way to his knee, and if he fell on it, it would gut him like a deer!
You can always tell a green horn, because he will show up with a knife that is bigger than his arm!

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## Rick

I do like that Hunter. I could use the guards and hollow handle to make a spear if I need to. I could even use the blade as a signal device. What's not to like for less than $10?! I'll bet a fellah could drive in tent pegs with that pommel.

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## Wildthang

> I do like that Hunter. I could use the guards and hollow handle to make a spear if I need to. I could even use the blade as a signal device. What's not to like for less than $10?! I'll bet a fellah could drive in tent pegs with that pommel.


At least until the handle fell off! :Scared:

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## Rick

Even better. Then you'd have two!

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## Wildthang

> Even better. Then you'd have two!


Oh so it's like splitting cells eh, it splits and becomes 2 identical organisms :Smartass:

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## Rick

This is my crayon. This is my paper. You got your handle.....that's the handle right there.....and you got your blade.....Don't touch it! You want you should cut your finger off? Stand back. That's the blade. See? One....two.....

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## Winter

I'm a greenhorn? dammit.

What if my crew served knife is on my rucksack? Hahahaha

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