# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  Matches vs Lighters what & WHY do you prefer the method?

## Wise Old Owl

Lets just get this out in the open...  Everyone has an opinion. I would like to know why some folk prefer matches over the modern lighter... and why some still prefer the flint, steel, & carbon patch.

I have been "playing" with flint & steel, making patches over the last few weeks. Even having a little fun with a pocket magnifying glass.  Ok I am not impressed. The cotton patches I made after much reading can catch a spark and smolder well. I can light them on a bright day and they smolder. Ok they suck compared to a micro light bic.  I even took the  carbon patches and added a little vaseline like a cotton ball and vaseline. 

For those that dont know me... I keep thinking the Pioneers of 200 years ago like "George Washington" were incredibly gifted or the Gomer Pyle of survival. :Cool2:

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## crashdive123

I like them all.  When hiking, my fire kit contains them all.  Matches get wet (yes, mine have been water proofed), lighters run out of fuel, sometimes you need fire when it's cloudy, or at night, ferrocium rods will always make a spark, char cloth is great, so are other man made and natural tinders.  I like options.

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## hunter63

> I like them all.  When hiking, my fire kit contains them all.  Matches get wet (yes, mine have been water proofed), lighters run out of fuel, sometimes you need fire when it's cloudy, or at night, ferrocium rods will always make a spark, char cloth is great, so are other man made and natural tinders.  I like options.


I agree, I also carry a lot of options, but am working on mastering making fire with nothing purchased, or carried, as my goal.

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## kyratshooter

Yes, options are the key.  Along with knowledge and practice.

I used to have a lighter 24/7, then quit smoking.  I keep multiple lighters in the vehicles, but not on me any longer.

I do keep a small ferro rod in my keychain med container (nitro opills for the ticker) and I have a mag bar in each vehicle along with the lighters and book matches in zip locks in the packs that stay in the vehicle.  I actually look at the book matches as barter/good samaritin items to be left as good will to people not as fortunate as ourselves.

There is also a small magnifier on the keychain, combined with a compass/thermometer.  

Flint and steel is a learned skill like any other.  Some use charcloth, some use other substances.  Knowing the basis for spark based fire is simply another option.  You can get sparks from a lot of places and knowing what will catch them and smolder is part of the skill set.

So is the firebow/fireplow/spindle, and knowing how to make them on the spot.

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## your_comforting_company

I can't really think of any reason matches would be better than a lighter. I carry a bic and a ferro rod every day just like my pocketknife. Knowledge is really the key and knowing how to make a single spark turn into a bonfire is a skill in itself. How you get that spark really makes no difference in the grand scheme.
I prefer a bic because even if it runs out of fuel, it'll still throw sparks and I know lots of things that will make a flame with a little spark. A match is pretty much a one shot deal. Multiple methods helps ensure you'll have your bases covered no matter the situation.

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## Ole WV Coot

I keep options as most folks do. I don't smoke but Bic lighters have been my favorite. Never fail, cheap and easy to pack or carry. A rod or matches are backups only.

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## Vulspire

Well lighters require fuel, Then again if you carying matches if the striking pad gets we then your screwed unless your carying strike anywhere matches but if those get wet then your still screwed. Personaly i would perfer matches, but dont ask me why lol.

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## justin_baker

With matches and lighters you can get away with less preparation on the smaller level, which is important if you are cold and wet and miserable.

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## Wise Old Owl

Well a match is one light, a bic is a thousand lights - provided it too isn't wet.

A good skill is too learn to remove the child proof clasp.

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## Ken

Bic is the way to go. I have a few matches as a back-up, for use after the 5 bics I carry are used up.  :Innocent:

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## roar-k

I have a few options when I am out and about.  If I have my fire kit with me I have three ways to start a fire; firesteel, bic lighter, and storm proof matches.

For EDC I carry a mini bic and yes my firesteel as well....  I like to have different options.

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## Rick

All of the above. 




> I keep thinking the Pioneers of 200 years ago like "George Washington"  were incredibly gifted


Nothing gifted about them. That's all they had so they used it. They would probably be in awe if they could see what we have today.

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## Sourdough

"Real men" use Highway FLARES and gasoline. "Real Women" just give ya that look, and the fire starts.

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## Justin Case

This is pretty cool !  waterproof lighter,  > http://www.opticsplanet.net/brunton-...ter-storm.html

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## Ken

> This is pretty cool ! waterproof lighter, > http://www.opticsplanet.net/brunton-...ter-storm.html


It's waterproof until you remove the screw cap.  After that, all bets are off.

Back in the day when I smoked and was always on a boat, I had a windproof lighter - a freebie from the cigarette company.  Thing worked really well so long as it was dry, which wasn't very often.

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## Rick

You were Blackbeard?! He was back in the day, smoked and was always on a boat. 

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## Survival Guy 10

> Well a match is one light, a bic is a thousand lights - provided it too isn't wet.
> 
> A good skill is too learn to remove the child proof clasp.


i washed my bic about 6 times and it still works

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## Sarge47

I'm with those who like options.  Water-proof matches/lighter are my back-up.  It it's good enough for the Boy Scouts..... :Sneaky2:   :Cool2:

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## pete lynch

> Well a match is one light, a bic is a thousand lights - provided it too isn't wet.
> 
> A good skill is too learn to remove the child proof clasp.


I use the flat Scripto-like lighters you get in a three-pack: After disabling the child-proof thing and the flame adjuster
they make a heck of a flame. Plus they are see-thru so you know how much fuel is left.
I also carry waterproofed strike-anywhere matches, magnesium sticks and ferro rods.

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## Rick

But there is that wet and cold thingy along with the, "Heck, I ain't scared no more with this fire," thingie.

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## Sarge47

(Note to self:  Do NOT go camping with Alaskan Survivalist.  He lives in freakin' Alaska where it gets really freakin' cold & he don't want a freakin' fire!  How can you toast freakin' marshmallows without a freakin' fire? :Sneaky2:   :Innocent: )

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## crashdive123

> How can you toast freakin' marshmallows without a freakin' fire? )


Road flares. :Innocent:

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## hunter63

> (Note to self:  Do NOT go camping with Alaskan Survivalist.  He lives in freakin' Alaska where it gets really freakin' cold & he don't want a freakin' fire!  How can you toast freakin' marshmallows without a freakin' fire? )


I second that. 
I actually go to the woods to do other stuff, like hunting fishing, rendezvous, working/building on something, canoeing, whatever, and I like being reasonably comfortable.

I look at "camping" as "Living in the woods", not necessary just "surviving".

OK, there I said it, so I like the "camp fire thing", BS, beers, burnt marshmellows, the whole deal..........What do you mean ..No freaking fire!

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## Rick

Next he'll be telling us he walks on snow barefoot and lives 450 miles from the nearest person.

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## Rick

Clothes insulate you from heat? Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no. Case in point. One young apprentice cable splicer on a two man ladder working on a lead sleeve for the first time. Wearing insulated coveralls in winter. This young lad, who will remain nameless, was watching intently at the graceful art of removing a lead sleeve with a torch. A job the much older and wiser journeyman was demonstrating. It took, oh, maybe, six minutes from the heat of that lead to soak through the insulated coveralls. The dripping hot lead having been expertly placed there by the journeyman on said apprentice's legs centered below the sleeve....where he told me to stand. One of the few times in my life I really did scream like a girl.

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## AlpineZone

Well am with many others and like options. I'm certainly not going to hold out if in a major blizzard and try the bowdrill/flint-steel etc. Give me a bic lighter anyday or some stormproof matches. Nothing wrong with using technology for its purpose.

That being said, I do prefer the old school method of friction, flint/steel, fresnel lens, etc if patience and nice weather are with my bushcraft outting. Its good practice and a nice habit to get into providing you don't make your outting miserable for yourself and others because of it.

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## justin_baker

I love matches. There is just something so satisfying in striking it on the box, watching it burst into flame, and cradling it into your pile of feather sticks.

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## Sarge47

1st, I do agree with A.S. about clothing insulating from the cold; this is seconded by outdoor survival expert Mors Kochanski in his booklet:  "Tools of Survival and Survival Training." Just keep away from the hot lead!  

2nd, a campfire is not only great for cooking food, it builds cheer, lifts morale, keeps a coffee pot of hot water ready for either hot chocolate, tea, or coffee ready at all times, melts ice & snow for drinking/cooking water, boils suspected water to kill potential parasites as does the same with meat!  Try eating freeze-dried food raw, & don't even talk to me about eating meat or fish raw; there can be parasites there too!   :Cool2:

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## crashdive123

I just like fire.  Does that make me a bad person? :Blushing:

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## Rick

Only if you stand across the street and watch the fire department put it out. 




> If you have multible ways to make a fire you don't have confidence in  any of them.


We'll agree to disagree on that. The first time that Zippo fails you (no flint, no fuel, mechanical failure, lost it) and the weather is bad then your life may be at risk. You've been doing the AK thing a long time so there's nothing I can say about that. I just want a backup and a backup to my backup because I know Murphy goes with me on just about every trip. He and I are pretty good buds but he still ticks me off on occasion.

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## Sarge47

> Only if you stand across the street and watch the fire department put it out. 
> 
> 
> 
> We'll agree to disagree on that. The first time that Zippo fails you (no flint, no fuel, mechanical failure, lost it) and the weather is bad then your life may be at risk. You've been doing the AK thing a long time so there's nothing I can say about that. I just want a backup and a backup to my backup because I know Murphy goes with me on just about every trip. He and I are pretty good buds but he still ticks me off on occasion.


Well said!  In the land of Murphy there is but one law!   :Cool2:

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## Batch

I think of making fire by various methods as a hobby that adds to my options in a survival situation. If I always use a lighter and some how I lose my lighter, I want a back up.

Could you carry a zippo on your person in an airplane?

Fire can ease the mind, it works as a very good signaling method both day and night, it can be used to ease the onslaught of insects, boiling water as well as all of the other uses already mentioned. 

Think of all the things that we do on a daily basis that requires fire in a power outage. Make coffee, hot water to wash up with, make breakfast. Cook dinner and even just gather around and talk. Might not be a high priority, but, think how comforting it would be to a stranded smoker who lost their camoflauge zippo when he got that little fire started and was able to get a cig lit. A little comfort like that can make a huge difference in moral.

When we lost power for over a week after Wilma hit, I had family and friends coming over to hang out that already had their power back or were running generators. I didn't have an modern amenities. But, we had fire and were grillin and chillin!

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## Alaskan Survivalist

Batch, On a scale of 1-10 my paranoa level is a good solid 9. I quit flying on commercial airlines. I used to fly to Las Vegas every winter for 3 weeks and had a timeshare there. When I could not sell it, I gave it away. I love Las Vegas but I am seriously never climbing on a commercial airline again. Some levels of preparedness become habit and you don't forget or loose them. Like putting on your pants or shoes. I did get good with a bow drill as a backup but have not had to rely on it yet. I was a Boy Scout and "Be Prepared" is a way of life for me.

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## Rick

Batch - That's a big maybe. Depends on how you pack it. Not on the plane but in checked luggage. 

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...d-items.shtm#9

Fire is cool....is that an oxymoron?

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## huskymill

i always have a ferrocium rod kit and a zippo that i carry with me when im out camping or hiking. something that is awesome that i have found is alcohol swabs. they are great for carrying with you cause you can use them as tinder and for first aid. throw a few sparks on one of those and it will light right up and burn long enough to get a good fire going.

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## Wise Old Owl

OK kind of a "trick" question... and you most of you did not do well. I am not going to point fingers,  you didn't form the answer into a good question and I am not Alex Trebek.

In most cases a micro bic is the way to go for thousands of lights - EXCEPT high altitude, purchase one UP there or suffer. 

As people buy a soda in Phily don't open it in the Poconos.

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## NightShade

I usually have a Bic.... but when I'm out in the bush I always carry at least 1 other method of building fire... usually a flintsteel or magnesium/flint firestarter..

Here are 4 things that have happened to me , on more than 1 ocassion, that caused a lighter to fail...

1. Lighter ran out of fuel... duh.. the obvious.
2. Lighter broke... Flint wheel sparker won't give off a spark and light... even though I have a full load of fuel..
3. Lighter got wet, either in rain, when i fell in a river, or dropped in puddle... each time i couldn't get a flame until it dried.
4. It can get pretty cold in New England during the winter.... If I'm outside for awhile and have a lighter in more of an exterior pocket, rather than close to my body, I cannot get a flame. This has happened at work, out hunting, and just out hiking around.

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## Pepper

fire to me is a source of comfort the same way my 10mm is ,its good to have even If I dont need it . I was given a lighter that you can almost weld with , I always carry matchs , and in a baby food jar ,if the wood is damp I carry a chunk of fire starter and small pcs of fat wood (for fireplaces )cheating probley but if you are hurt / lost its fast ,reliable and always lights if you are out somewhere and you twist / sprain / god forbid break an arm/leg/get shot snake bit or have to boil water to drink, my baby food jar is a a fast way to get heat and like I said fire to me is a comfort .

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## r0ckhamm3r

I carry two bic lighters in a waterproof bag and a ferrocerium rod.  I like redundancy.  I have never been a big fan of matches, one fire per match is just not a good ratio to me.  Considering the size weight and utility, one lighter is worth about 1000 matches.  IMHO 1000 matches is a lot to carry.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> I carry two bic lighters in a waterproof bag and a ferrocerium rod.  I like redundancy.  I have never been a big fan of matches, one fire per match is just not a good ratio to me.  Considering the size weight and utility, one lighter is worth about 1000 matches.  IMHO 1000 matches is a lot to carry.


 I carry 3 or 4 Bic lighters almost always, as well as 1 Ferrocerium rod.... sometimes 2 or 3 of those as well, Depending on what bags I have with me. I also carry one in my vest, I have flint and steel and char cloth in my pack too.  So depending on what I have with me I may have a dozen(Just guessing) or so fire making items. Let's say the bics quit working, Then I would fall back on the Ferrocerium rods, IF They run out, I then have flint and steel. So for what I carry I could make fires for quite a long while, years probably decades. IF it came to it this would give me ample time to improve my fire by friction methods. One thing about magnifying glasses... they are only good for about 1/4 of the time you have them on you. Magnifying glasses don't work at night, cloudy weather(doesn't have to be raining), early morning or late afternoon. Basically the times of day I would need fire most. However they are good for getting splinters, and I could get a fire going with one if conditions are right. 

You can drop a bic in the water and it won't light, However these won't affect a Ferrocerium rod or Flint and steel as much. Wipe them off and get started. Let's suppose it's winter, you fall in a river/pond/lake and you are in danger of developing Hypothermia. Your lighters are now pretty much useless(Yes even the zippo as it's fuel is now mixed with water) You discover that somehow your plastic bags have developed holes and EVERYTHING is now wet.  What do you do? My Firesteel (Ferrocerium rod) is now my best bet at saving my life. Wipe it off and get started making a fire. Just my thoughts......

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## Rick

> cheating probley


No such thing in the woods. Whatever is fast and easy.

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## klkak

> Lets just get this out in the open...  Everyone has an opinion. I would like to know why some folk prefer matches over the modern lighter... and why some still prefer the flint, steel, & carbon patch.
> 
> I have been "playing" with flint & steel, making patches over the last few weeks. Even having a little fun with a pocket magnifying glass.  Ok I am not impressed. The cotton patches I made after much reading can catch a spark and smolder well. I can light them on a bright day and they smolder. Ok they suck compared to a micro light bic.  I even took the  carbon patches and added a little vaseline like a cotton ball and vaseline. 
> 
> For those that dont know me... I keep thinking the Pioneers of 200 years ago like "George Washington" were incredibly gifted or the Gomer Pyle of survival.


From my experience.

Matches are great as long as you keep them dry (my first choice). They work in extremely cold weather. I use with parafan soaked cotton balls.

Bic and similar type liters are good also as long as they don't get wet (don't carry one). They don't work in extremely cold weather.

Ferro rod and steel always work regardless of the weather (my second choice). I use with parafan soaked cotton balls.

I don't use char cloth.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

I've been lighting 40 to 60 fires a day since I started smoking over 40 years ago. The Zippo does not fail. If it gets wet you blow it out, if it gets cold you warm it in your pocket and if it breaks I fix it (it's not a complex piece of machinery) and will burn any flamable liquid so running out of lighter fluid is not the end of it's usefullness. Bics are lighter and when shaving ounces for hiking and my choice but they are also disposable and when used up are used up so long term the zippo is better. The other methods are toys for people playing at survival and when it is not a matter impressing people with your mastery of survival skills and just want a fire don't screw around with all the other crap.

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## crashdive123

> I've been lighting 40 to 60 fires a day since I started smoking over 40 years ago. The Zippo does not fail. If it gets wet you blow it out, if it gets cold you warm it in your pocket and if it breaks I fix it (it's not a complex piece of machinery) and will burn any flamable liquid so running out of lighter fluid is not the end of it's usefullness. Bics are lighter and when shaving ounces for hiking and my choice but they are also disposable and when used up are used up so long term the zippo is better. The other methods are toys for people playing at survival and when it is not a matter impressing people with your mastery of survival skills and just want a fire don't screw around with all the other crap.


That may be your take on other fire starting methods, but I disagree.  I don't carry and use multiple ways to start a fire to impress you or anybody else with my ability to use them.  I carry them because they work for me.  When I'm home lighting a fire in the outdoor fireplace I use a Benzomatic torch much like the one you use (mine has a piezoelectric igniter).  I have no need or desire to carry that while hiking.  When I want fire, I want fire and could care less if it impresses or mystifies somebody that may not use those methods, or does not know how to use those methods.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

The market for those that have to build fires are and have been dominated by the the most effective ways of doing it. Survivalists seem to need some kind of gimmick. The sillyest thing I have seen is starting fire with steel wool and a battery. Then there is bringing dryer lint from home. What, did they forget to bring toilet paper? I am speaking only to those that take thier survival serious. If building fires is important to your survival then to should be a means to accomplish it.

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## Rick

Most of the fires I start there's no one around. I've used char cloth and fire steel. I've used lighters with PJ cotton and I've used matches. It just depends on conditions and what mood I'm in. Sometimes the only fire I start is my stove. I don't think it's gimmicky to know how to use something a bit odd. You may find yourself with only odd things when you're in a bad situation and having played around with something out of the ordinary might spark an idea (pardon the pun) of how to use what you have on hand.

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## crashdive123

Well, believe it or not, they've been starting fires outside of Alaska for some time now.  What seems silly to you, might be something that saves somebody else's life.  You want to carry a propane torch and canister of fuel into the woods - more power to you.  If your zippo works - great.  Just know that there are other methods that may not work for you that do work for others.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

Has nothing to do with being in Alaska. Smokers don't use the gimmicks, they just want to smoke. If the other methods were anywhere near as effective they would be using them. I have been in mining camps that by the end of the first month I became a very popular person because my Zippo was the only fire around. There is a difference when this stuff becomes your life and you have other things to do. Some people are just dead weight because they spend all thier time next to the fire or trying to prepare a meal or won't get out of thier sleeping bag. I have seen this too many times and recognize the same thinking here. If it takes all your time for survival or camp shores not much else will be accomplished.

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## Ken

> Some people are just dead weight because *they spend all thier time next to the fire or trying to prepare a meal or won't get out of thier sleeping bag.*


I musta' missed something.  Ain't those some of the best things in life?

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## Camp10

> Has nothing to do with being in Alaska. Smokers don't use the gimmicks, they just want to smoke. If the other methods were anywhere near as effective they would be using them.


Well, I used my BIC when I was a smoker.  I havnt touched a smoke in years and I still have that same BIC. Still gets the job done and I never worry about if the fluid dried up.  I can just shake it and listen for proof that it will work.

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## Ken

I just carry one of these. Kinda' tough on the backpack, though.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> Well, I used my BIC when I was a smoker.  I havnt touched a smoke in years and I still have that same BIC. Still gets the job done and I never worry about if the fluid dried up.  I can just shake it and listen for proof that it will work.


That's a valid point but the bottle that refills the zippo does not dry out. Usage has a bearing on it. If you are not using it everyday then a bic would have some advantage.

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## crashdive123

Don't get me wrong, Zippo's are great.  I still have many laying around from my smoking and collecting days.  Onboard Submarines you could not bring fuel for them, nor could you bring a bic.  Many used matches, but I (along with others) used our Zippo lighters.  We used isopropyl alcohol for fuel once what was in the lighter ran out.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> I've been lighting 40 to 60 fires a day since I started smoking over 40 years ago. The Zippo does not fail. If it gets wet you blow it out, if it gets cold you warm it in your pocket and if it breaks I fix it (it's not a complex piece of machinery) and will burn any flamable liquid so running out of lighter fluid is not the end of it's usefullness. Bics are lighter and when shaving ounces for hiking and my choice but they are also disposable and when used up are used up so long term the zippo is better. The other methods are toys for people playing at survival and when it is not a matter impressing people with your mastery of survival skills and just want a fire don't screw around with all the other crap.


Well to be quite honest I really like the idea of a refillable lighter,ANY refillable lighter. I also am a smoker, But just can't get past the taste of Zippo fuel. Honestly I would much rather light a smoke with a natural piece of wood straight out of a fire. Since my main problem is the taste of the fuel, I don't carry one. So By not carrying one I have to find something else to light a fire with.

Now as to carrying a lighter that is out of fuel to use starting a fire. An empty lighter has a very small ferrocerium rod that we call flint. Sooo if using ferrocerium to start a fire, why not just use a larger version that can throw a heavier shower of sparks for a further distance?

Really It doesn't matter what method you use, as long as it works for you(and is safe). Some peoples methods seem like overkill to me. For example about 2-3 years ago these people in the next campsite's idea of fire starting was dump a half gallon of gas on the wood and throw a match. It worked, but it got every ones attention with the big flash and the "Wooosh". They needed seasoned wood which they didn't have, but they kept a big fire going for about 2 days. Could have drove their pickup about 40-50 miles on the gas they used, but they had a fire while they were there.

 I just like having options,and durability. Ferrocerium/flint and steel provide those for me. They take up so little space, I figure why not? Besides by carrying them I have them with me to practice with. As for "Impressing people", Yeah some people are impressed by a firesteel starting a fire, some people though think just the opposite... they think "What an idiot". Oh well, whatever floats their boat, it's all cool.

 I have seen times when I wished I had had a firesteel, so now I carry one with me....always. It's part of my "EDC". I have left home without my wallet... but far less times have I left home without a firesteel. It's just more important than my wallet. It is probably second only to my knife in importance of carrying. I think if nothing else it is what we feel comfortable and confident with.

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## sh4d0wm4573ri7

Always have my bic handy , however I am partial to my Strike Force for most everything

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## BENESSE

Matches work better in the bafroom.

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## hunter63

> Matches work better in the bafroom.


LOL, LOL, LOL,LOL.....And cheap cigars work well in those public pit toilets, emptying RV holding tanks, port-a-potties and other tasks that require a masking cloud.

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## Rick

No sparks or flames are permitted anywhere near our bafroom. One does not want it to become the kaboom room.

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## Firecraft

I prefer the lighter. Matches may get wet and if they aren't waterproof you're screwed! Lighters that get wet will dry out and light again in the future. So if you drop your matches into a stream, you can be screwed, but a lighter would still be okay. Plus, matches won't burn out easily. A lighter is releasing a stream of gas continuously. But I love the smell of matches.

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## Sarge47

Come to think of it, AS's booze would make a great fire starter!  That being said, when I'm out camping I usually use a long barreled charcoal starter...you know, like a big lighter?  Matches and my Strike Force are my back-up.  As far as matches go, I like the MRE book matches as they're damp-resistance.  I keep them in a qt. size zip-lock.   :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

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## Alaskan Survivalist

You're funny Sarge! Knowing this is your way of showing your affection I'm as honored as BG....and we all know how you truely feel about him.

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## shiftyer1

As....I used a zippo for many years,  one day I ran out of fluid to refill it and just never bought more.  You said you've been using one for 40 years so you know that it's going to run out of fluid when you need a smoke the most.  Doesn't it make sense to carry another form of lighting a fire?  Odds are you'll never need to make a fire with a 9 volt and steel wool and i'd never carry such a combo with me but it's nice to know you can.  

I've become somewhat interested in learning different ways to make fire,  if for no other reason than to know I can.

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## 1stimestar

I carry both.  Matches work better for getting to the underlying tinder in a pile of firewood.  Lighters are handier for all the above mentioned reasons.  BUT, lighters don't work once they get down to a certain temp.  So if I am out in the winter, I also make sure to have matches.  As a smoker I carry my cigs and lighter in an outside pocket for easy access but have to put my lighter in my glove for a while to warm up enough to light.

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## crashdive123

1stimestar - You're talking about Bic type lighters right?  While it is true that the butane must be warmed up a bit, a Zippo will work in cold conditions without pre-heating.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> 1stimestar - You're talking about Bic type lighters right?  While it is true that the butane must be warmed up a bit, a Zippo will work in cold conditions without pre-heating.


Sorry Crash, that's just not so here. We may have a different concept of cold but I often have to warm mine up to get it to work. I think we need to define cold.

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## crashdive123

Are you using regular zippo fuel?

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> Are you using regular zippo fuel?


When my wife picks it up. I don't like the steel cans and always choose Ronsonal for its plastic container. They warm up easy by just putting it in front pants pocket. Outside pockets at -20 don't cut it.

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## crashdive123

I've never had any issues in the cold, but admittedly I have not experienced the extremes that you do.

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## 1stimestar

I haven't tried zippos, yes talking about a plain old Bic.  By cold I am referring to something colder then -20F.

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## valleysailor

_"I don't see how people can eat okra. I know it is food but my system rejects it because I have not been raised on it."_
WHAT?  No gumbo in a survival sitch?  Then I ain't doing it!!   :Wink:

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## EdD270

I normally carry matches in a waterproof container, and a Bic, and either a ferro rod or mag bar. I usually use the Bic for starting fires, but if it don't work I go for the matches. If they fail, I go for the ferro rod/mag bar. If that fails I make a drill and try that. If that fails I freeze/starve to death. Oh, well, that's life in the wilderness.

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## fortbuilder

@EdD270 You could resort to using the ice to start your fire.  How???  Form a lense in the palm of your hands from the ice and use it like a magnifying glass, it works.

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## crashdive123

> @EdD270 You could resort to using the ice to start your fire.  How???  Form a lense in the palm of your hands from the ice and use it like a magnifying glass, it works.


Two things come to mind.

1.  He lives in Arizona.
2.  How many fires have you personally started using this method?

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## Sarge47

> Two things come to mind.
> 
> 1.  He lives in Arizona.
> 2.  How many fires have you personally started using this method?


Fortbuilder lives in Montana...an intro would have helped.  I think matches are a lot easier to use than ice...just sayin'   :Sneaky2:   :Cool2:

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## crashdive123

Yeah, but EdD lives in Arizona - the guy he was telling to form an ice lens.

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## Sarge47

> Yeah, but EdD lives in Arizona - the guy he was telling to form an ice lens.


 If EdD used a cooler...no, that won't work.  Maybe if EdD started the fire at home with ice 1st, then put the fire in some kind of container...no, that could prove dangerous.  YEP!  Matches, or lighter, like the OP was asking!     :Sweatdrop:

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## Rick

I generally use my lighter to start my matches. Redundancy. Remember redundancy.

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## Shalako

I don't have a problem with any of them. When hunting or otherwise in the woods, I normally carry waterproof, strike anywhere matches in a water tight container and a large size Zippo. I've encountered considerable difficulty trying to start a fire with a Bic type lighter under windy conditions, thus I never rely on them.

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## hunter63

I think it would be easier to us the plastic bag and pee, in the desert....maybe ice lens in AK, or any of the cool ways to make fire....if you have to.

I'm a BIC guy myself......buy them by the dozen...at least one goes into every jacket, coat, bag, pack, glove box, counsel, tool box everywhere.......and they all get lost!....LOL....Some day I'll find the "Magic Pocket" and all lost lighters are there!

So then its back to the Zippo, water proof matches, ferro rod, Flint/steel, lens.......

THEN bow drills, hand drills, friction fire, steel wool/battery, ball point pen spring/battery, coke can/chocolate,.........
Or finally, standing in a clearing with a 2 iron and a tinder bundle, during a lightening storm.

Or just use your smart phone,,,,gotta be an APP for that.

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## Sparky93

Here you go

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Starts a good, reliable fire....... until the battery goes dead.

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## hunter63

> Here you go
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> Starts a good, reliable fire....... until the battery goes dead.


LOL

Just before the battery goes dead........call DW and have her come an rescue you....wet, cold, dark, hungry........"Honey, can you come a get me...again, I can't get my fire piston to work".

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## Shalako

I normally use waterproof, strike anywhere matches. I also normally also carry a Zippo as backup. but I will use whatever is available.

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## SARKY

I've gotten so used to using a firesteel that is all I use anymore.

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## crashdive123

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.

sjj - now you have to leave your post up so people will know what I'm talking about.

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## Firecraft

Magnesium Fire Starter, I actually prefered a lighter but I wasn't very good with matches before so I chose lighter, but I'm pretty good with everything now, except for the bow drill which I never tried

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## whitis

TSA lifted the ban on common lighters (zippo, butane), but not torch lighters, on 2007-08-04.   They were so busy confiscating as many as 39,000 lighters a day (avg 22,000), they were distracted from looking for bombs.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/sop/index.shtm

Molten lead or solder gets your attention much faster when you are wearing shorts - especially if you have hairy legs.   Fortunately the quantity was smaller.

Butane lighter.  cheap, convenient, fuel doesn't evaporate.
zippo (might as well be empty if used infrequently) in waterpproof container with can of fluid and repair kit.   Can use alternate fuels.
firesteel/waterproof matches.

carbide lamp (provides fire, light, emergency heat, entertainment, 2400degC flame - higher than melting point of most metals).  bulky.  spent fuel needs to be packed out of some environments but actually is relatively non-toxic (even has food uses) and has numerous uses including as plaster, water treatment, CO2 scrubber.  provides spark.  Helmet mount.  can be used for marking. You don't have to use it to make a fire, it is a fire; it can boil water and when used with a poncho or trash bag (normally carried in helmet) can keep you warm. When carbide added to fire, rain will make it burn more vigorously instead of extinguishing it.  :Smile:    Prior to LED lights, they had better light to fuel weight ratios than electric.  They start fires even when you don't ask them too.  :Smile:

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## paul m

I personally like Zippo.But you have to take what's going.

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## Rick

It gets your attention when you're 35 feet in the air and wearing Carharts, too. Just sayin'.

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## sh4d0wm4573ri7

I always try to have at least 3 different ways to start a fire and usually carry some my own home remedy tinder too

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## sh4d0wm4573ri7

I carry all and am quite satisfied. When I want a fire I want a fire in any conditions I face not later right now.

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## Warheit

> I always try to have at least 3 different ways to start a fire and usually carry some my own home remedy tinder too


Great post, Shadow.  Diversity is key!

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## socom2173

Why people carry only less effective ways to start a fire I do not know. When I want a fire it's no time to play "mountain man".
 In a true "survival situation" do you really want to start with flint rods and matches then work up to a lighter?.. 
No, you go straight to the lighter, IF you brought one.

Say you're in the mountains its raining and you get lost, its starting to get dark and you slip on a wet rock while crossing a river or stream and fall in. You are cold, you're tinder is soaked and you are shivering. You have not long to get a fire going. Before you start to lose dexterity in your hands and Hypothermia is setting in. I know this is a worse case  but, thats what I plan for. Thats why its called SURVIVAL and not Camping.

 I have no doubt there are people that can get something going IF they could find/prepare a dry tinder but, I would not bet my life on it.
 I don't know why anyone would even pack matches seems like we could just skip this technology all together. Firesteels are fun and Lighters are serious fire starters but Matches seem like just wasted space. Fire lighting technology has come a long way in the last one hundred years!

I used to smoke, I tried to carry a Zippo, I could not keep the fluid in it for more than 3 days. I got tired of refilling it all the damn time. It would just keep evaporating out. I could not recomend a Zippo as a survival tool.

I know it's fun to start fires with Firesteels. But you had better have a couple lighters on you as well and ALWAYS carry one on your body at all times!

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## Rick

Socom - I think it all has it's place. Here's a thread FinallyMe put together. If you scroll down you'll see the kit I put together off his idea. It's an outstanding kit, relatively inexpensive and it's waterproof. It doesn't get much better than that. 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ighlight=decon

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## randyt

I carry a zippo and a fire steel and matches. The one thing I carry that I recommend is some trioxine (sp) bars. On a recent outing I set camp up in a rain storm. after camp was set I started a fire in my lavvu. Everything was wet even the squaw wood and it was getting dark fast. Birch bark wouldn't even light up. I gathered the driest squaw wood I could get and got the fire going with a trioxine bar. I didn't want to monkey around, I live in northern mich and the potential for cold weather is there. anywoo my two cents.

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## Rick

Dang, I thought I'd lot my mind. I thought I had posted a response to Socom then came back and it was gone. I guess we have two fire starting threads going. Oh, well.

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## crashdive123

Your matches probably got wet.

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## Rick

Yeah, my fire fizzled. Well, something did.

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## socom2173

> Yeah, my fire fizzled. Well, something did.


 You might wanna have your Testosterone levels checked for that :Whistling:

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## BENESSE

> Dang, I thought I'd lot my mind. I thought I had posted a response to Socom then came back and it was gone. I guess we have two fire starting threads going. Oh, well.


As they say, the mind's a second thing to go. :Sneaky2:

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## Rick

No it's not. I just don't remember what is.

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## BENESSE

Just ask Mrs. Rick.
Or check the honey-do jar.

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## Rick

No honey-do jar for this boy. I'm still gimpy. I'm still suckin' up the sympathy points. This should be good well into 2012 with any luck.

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## crashdive123

Rick, Rick, Rick.  Have you learned nothing in all of those years of marriage?  Whilst she does not add to the jar, the list is growing.  Stand by for "While I was doing EVERYTHING around here.....".

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## BENESSE

Wise man, Crash. The cat's out the bag, that's how it works.

And Rick, gimpy don't cut it. You could be on the phone straightening $hit out--there's always something.

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## Rick

You sound like every boss I've ever had. "Whatdaya mean the truck ran over you. You got one good arm. Drag yourself over there and start answering the phone." Oh the humanity!

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## kyratshooter

I made one very important firebuilding discovery at the group camp!

If you sleep until 9am Poco or Crash will build the fire and it will not matter how many devices you are carrying!

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## BENESSE

Kyrat, remind me to bug out with Poco and Crash...who knows, I might not even have to carry my BOB.

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## crashdive123

My truck should be able to support a good sized group for several weeks.  Leave your BOB home (or Phil if that's his name). :Innocent:

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## Rick

A few of the folks in line to be resupplied by Crash and Oldsoldier. 

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## kyratshooter

I kid you not:  Crash needs a new set of springs on that truck in the worst way.  I have never seen a 1/2 ton truck with 2 tons of survival gear as well concealed as his.

You look at Crash's truck and think,"oh well, another white pickup with a topper."  Then he starts pulling out gear. 

Want shovels? he has three, and post hole diggers.
Want an axe?  No problem he has two, plus a chain saw and three different styles of machette.

We will not talk about knives since they arrived in big boxes, and as a southern courtesy I did not ask about guns, though we did have show and tell on the edc question.

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