# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  SURVIVALIST and their "POSITIVE" view of "WORLD DEPRESSION" GAME II

## Sourdough

Please try to make this as real as you can, Close your eyes and try to envision loosing everything, very, very, very slowly over four to six years. Every day your life is worse than the day befor, you are slowly headed for Bankruptcy. You are clinically depressed. You are angry at the injustice. 

In Russia through the 1930's Depression TEN Million people starved to death. From 1983 through 1995 Alaska saw 70% of it's Banks, and Savings & Loan Co. go bankrupt. Houses sold for .10 cents to .30 cents on the dollar. (What had been a $220,000.00 home sold for $34,000.-) Condo's were near worthless. People left Alaska to find work. Local Governments had no tax base, and were forced to fire employees. People who bought Real Estate at F.D.I.C. auctions at 50% off soon learned to regret their greed. Day after day it got worse. No Hope. Renters and business could not pay their rent. The only construction work was for F.D.I.C. repairing bank owned, looted, gutted, properties. See through office buildings completely empty. Everybody hording what few dollars they had, bought only what was needed. Family's moved in together. It get's worst, but I'll save that for later.

No NUKE'S, No VIRUS, just depressing day after day of a ever worsening economic conditions: Someone in your family, (maybe you) has had a medical problem, and the bill is $117,521.78 It was submitted to your company's Insurance Co. and you have just been advised the Insurance Co. is bankrupt because it held it's reserves in CDO's and SUV's and CFO's which a worthless because the Bond Insurer was downgraded from AAA+ to BB-, the bond insurer is bankrupt also. BUT the hospital needs payment or it will force you into bankruptcy. The court has awarded the hospital a judgement and lien on your home, savings account, etc.. 
Inflation is 21% and climbing at 2% per month. U.S. Dollars are near worthless so you spend them as soom as you can, but it is getting hard to find a taker, people want Euro's or Gold. All UAW Union members are on strike. The hedge fund that bought Chrysler is bankrupt. Your home is worth 35% less today than it was one year ago, And dropping 2% per month. If you are one of the active FORM members still living at home with your parents you now have "NO" allowance. If your FORM name starts with a Number, or "A" through "D" you just got laid-off. You can find work at 60% of your old wages. The rest of you fear you will be laid-off soon. What went wrong with America??? What went wrong with the World??? Was the whole monetary system a illiusion??? A house of cards??? No matter, you must make serious changes to how you live, and how you plan for tomorrow, next week, next month. It will get worse. If you play this serious others will learn from your choices, as you will learn from theirs. "GOOD LUCK", The GAME IS ON................you may now post.

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## Assassin Pilot

I would simply sell my house for whatever it is worth (I live in CT, people are relatively rich in my area) and then buy the first plane ticket I can to Finland. Then I would prob live w/ my Uncle, since he's a commando in the Finnish Army (my dad isn't anything special in the Finnish army) so he would know how to survive pretty darn well if those issues hit Finland. 

As for the hospital thing, I would delay it until I am over in Finland where they can't do anything about it, because the government there pays for my hospital visits (since I'm under 18).

For my money, I would probably just buy a nice car with it and ship it to Finland (nice cars are expensive there), and end up probably getting most of my money back by selling it in Finland.

As you can tell, my whole plan basically revolves around my mother country, so if anything happened to Finland I would just buy a gun and stay low until things start to settle.

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## Sourdough

Regret to inform it is worse in Finland than America. There is no happy face to put on this. Your house sells for $78,883.00 less than you owe. You borrowed the $78,883.00 from your uncle, but now he needs money, he needs your help. This is a world "DEPRESSION". Deal with it. Soon you will be eating every other day. No food. The truth is the young people will have the hardest adjustment to make. And as your FORM name starts with "A" your Father is now unemployed, you have no allowance. As for waiting till it settles, well 11 years from now, It will be half as good as yesterday. HALF. If you are still alive.

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## NorthWindTrails

The financial news just this past week (02/01/08) has shown how intertwined the world's financial markets are to the USA and Wall Street. This IS reality ... if the US has a depression, EVERYONE in the world will suffer for it. It won't take you very long to find this information for yourself. While Hopeak's scenario may be a practice run, the world still feels the pain for real. Just my .02 cents.  NorthWind

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## Sourdough

I have been going through my guns to see what I can live without, I have traded a Rock River AR-15 and 1000 rounds of ammo to the Fuel delivery Co. for 1,500 Gal. of stove oil.

I had to many guns, and they had fuel they could not sell, and one of their trucks got Hi-Jacked, They now send a man riding shotgun with all deliverys, half of their employees and their families are living at the office. I sold some guns for gold, and some for Euro's Dollars. One guy bought two guns and I took two cows, and three hundred Yankee dollars, which I ran straight to Sam's Club and bought Rice, canned bacon, baked beans, 120# of cheap dry dog food, and pancake mix, was glad to git rid of the U.S. Dollars quickly. Thank God my cabin is paid for. I need Gasoline for the chainsaw, I have some 30 weight SAE motor oil I'll use for mix. I am so depressed, everyone is depressed, sad, broke. The U.S. Government just sent everyone $600.00 to help the economy, but all it did was drive down the value of the Yankee Dollar. There is talk of wage and price FREEZE, like we had in the late 70's and early 80's. 

There is talk of some Government make work programs, and the State of Alaska was going to self build the Natural Gasline, but now no one in America can afford Natural Gas and the price has crashed.

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## Sourdough

The President of the United States Of America will address the Nation after the Super Bowl. He will tell you the Country is strong, the economy has hit some rough spots but we will be O.K. do not panic. He is declairing a "Bank Holliday" for next week, all Banks and the Stock Markets will be closed till February 11, 2008. Everything is fine, The Banks are solid.

A Rogue trader in France has hacked into the Banks Oversight security systems. He (The Bank) was on the wrong side of a highly leveraged Oil futures trade.......The Bank lost $70,BILLION Dollars, which is $6.7 Billion more than the book value of the Bank. It will Take the World Banks all next week to sort out who was on the other side of the Trades. The markets are closed: But the Back Alley price for Gold is $3,650.00 per oz.

Some Nation's are experiencing riots, and people trying to break into the Banks.

The word on the street is the Dow Jones Industrial Average will open Lock limit down every day till the average is at 3,275 from a high of 14,505. Do not panic everything will be O.K.

How can this happen??? Was everythig just an illuision??? Was it all just a confidence game???????????? Is not the money backed by GOLD.....Is it just backed by Air........

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## wareagle69

i try to keep two years worth of bills in the bank so unless the bank decided to say all that money is gone then i am good for at least two years, i have also stated before thatif there is that much foreclosure on homes and that much uneployment i do not think that they can enforce everyone being booted from their homes, plus i live in an isolated enough area that i could retreat to the cabin down in the valley on my property which i could not be seen unles a specific trek was made to find me, next would come the barter system, being a plumber and also a heating tech, i would be able to barter my way through some of this mess, all these years of studing wild edibles has paid off lots of lakes to fish and an overabundance of deer(for now) but i see that my planning all these years for this may have helped ease the burden somewhat, i am also counting on the fact that this area is home to one of the largest precious metal deposits in the world and if xstrata and valle inco merge it will be the fifth largest in the world, the world will still need to function at a basic rate, and i admit i am white in my late 30's and as a trades man making good money the last 12 years i am spoiled. it will be diffucult to adjust, but i ahve prepared well so,  so far i will be okay will have to wait it out to see what happens next.

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## Rick

WE - One of the better posts on the forum. It is about savings = preparedness. Just don't forget to increase the amount by the rate of inflation or you will reduce your survival time by that amount. Savvy? 

et al. - Some debt is good, even advisable. It establishes a credit history and serves to establish that you are a good credit risk. Employers are even using credit ratings more and more to decide what type of employee you will be. But you have to be able to control it or it WILL control you. I will guarantee you there are folks on this forum that do not balance their check books and if they do they round the cents up or down to the nearest dollar, pay ATM fees for the privilege of using their own money, and either pay the minimum payment on maxed credit cards or late fees or both. It's your money. Throw it away if you want.....or take control of it. Here's a free financial lesson for you. If you can't afford to buy it....don't. Use some fiscal restraint. That's just everyday good sense.

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## crashdive123

Ok.  I’m in my 50’s living with my parents and just lost my job.  Went down to the hospital to try and work out my bill.  They seem agreeable to me, along with a few neighbors providing security.  I guess some employees have been threatened, theft of supplies and diesel.  Looks like they’re in just as bad a situation as everybody else.  A lot of the communities have pooled together their resources and are planting some pretty sizable crops.  Hopefully we won’t get any more freezes this winter.  All of the fruit trees are doing pretty good.  Rode my bicycle to the west side of town where most of the farms are.  They seem to be functioning pretty well.  Most are willing to trade.  The fishing’s been real good.  I’m getting better at it.  Glad the house and vehicles are paid for.  They’re all gassed up, but I’m pretty frugal about using them, what with gas anywhere from $12 to $15 a gallon.  I’ll keep you posted.

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## Tony uk

Okay, Im in a shell scrape (army shelter type, good when your trying to cammouflage yourself) with a mechete and a load of food/water stashed somewhere. Anything that comes close will get a very bad surprise, "WE MUST KUNG FO FIGHT" " "WHA-CHA" "CHOP".

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## Sarge47

This scenario is really scary as it is a very viable threat.  This is not a case where the "infrastructure" has failed but where it itself is what we're trying to Survive.  The bank foreclosed on my house?  My poor landlord, I rent.  They closed my bank account?  They can keep the 5 bucks.   What am I gonna do?  Don't know as I'm pretty much already in that situation.  Prices on all things needed to sustain life and our way of living are climbing higher than most of us can keep up with.  Gas, heating fuel, electricity, rent, house payments; and to make it worse American industry goes even further by cutting jobs here in America  by sending their factories into other countries in order to cut labor costs, there-fore depriving many Americans the income needed not only to pay for basic services, but to buy the goods those same industries are trying to sell to us.  Where's the money going to come from if we can't work?  What about the benefits we used to enjoy from 40 hour a week jobs which now have scaled down to "part-time" work, there-fore depriving us of those as well.  The answer? :Confused: 
That's got to come from us, the American people, but we have to be united; and I don't see that happening.   :Cool:

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## nell67

You are so right Sarge.

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## Sourdough

Why did the game that Sarge47 put up get 157 posts, and 1,720 views...??? Could it be we like it clear cut??? Where you have two choices: stay home, or bug'out with your AR-16 switched to full-auto, loot, plunder, live happly ever after in you log shack....in Canada or Alaska...???

Why did no one want to play Rick's Game???

Why is anarchy so much easier to plan for, than day to day living in a real, "it's happening NOW", deal with it situation.

We need to play this game, and learn from each other, and teach each other. I lived through a Depression......and it is ...well....VERY DEPRESSING. Get in the GAME!!!!!!!

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## trax

I've started kind of avoiding all of these threads, because some of our replies become almost pointless. I have to say that my thinking might not do a lot of people here any good, but here goes...

1. I heard from my Mom (my Dad died when I was quite small so I didn't really get his point of view, he grew up on a farm in Saskatchewan) what it was like suffering through the Great Depression...She lived in Winnipeg and it was tough. Extremely tough

2. I heard from my former in-laws what it was like living through the Great Depression on a trap line in far northern Manitoba. They didn't know there was a Depression. They worked hard hunting and working a trap line before, during and after the Depression. No one went hungry.

3. I've learned enough from the people in both of those first two examples that I know I can fade back into that wilderness (anyone want to check out Manitoba on a map? there's still plenty of wilderness) and live the way I was meant to. That's my plan (with certain recent modifications involving who gets to come with me).

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## cabingirl

Hi hopeak,
   It sounds to me that you are a very smart person to buy the beans and the rice. Did you know that you can buy D E to put on them to keep the bugs from getting into them. The D E is ground shell and will kill the bugs. Also, you can freeze the beans, for three days, then take out of the freeze. Refreeze for another three days. Then store them. Hope this helps.You can also get a food grade 55 gallom drum  , put the beans and rice in, then add dryed ice, close the top. Be careful, some say this can explode.
 Hope this helps, 
 Cabingirl

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## Rick

I haven't played because I don't buy into the scenario. That's my problem, not yours. I don't see many legitimate comparisons between what occured in the '30s and what we are seeing today. I don't fear an economic collapse or the end of the world as we know it. I'm a sheeple, I guess. 

I'm more concerned about what will happen to me if I break a leg in the middle of Deam Wilderness or have a heart attack or a stroke or get shot because someone mistakes me for a six point buck (it's the bad hair, I guess). I'm way more concerned that my home will get smacked by a twister than I am TEOTWAWTI. But hey, that's just silly little ole me.

Someone tell me how to stop the bleeding or mend the leg or build a better shelter or......whatever....I'll play that game, which was what I tried to do with my game but Noooooooooo.

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## Sourdough

RICK, I did play your game, I was the only person who would come out and play your game. This is only a game...."GET IN THE GAME". You are the best that there is at "GOATING" others along. Come on Ricky, you kind'a want to play. Tell'Ya what I do, I will let you win.

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## Rick

My evil plan comes to fruition! A guarantee of a win. Finally!

I think it's great that you disagree. I encourage folks to disagree. I WANT to know what your thoughts and opinions are. That's one of the many ways I learn. I didn't mean to lump any depression with an end of the world scenario. That are quite different. Anyone check the Prez's latest finance package? 

Okay, here you go. 

I had taken my lump sum retirement and invested in mutual funds. What a mistake that turned out to be. Gone. All of it. My medical insurer went bankrupt and my former employee keeps answering the phone with, "Who? Who's calling?" Thirty years for nothing. 

The thing that irks me is I had medical insurance that covered the bill and it was okay for the insurer to file bankruptcy but now I'm stuck with the bill. What was I paying premiums for?  

I don't have any other debt but I don't have any savings either since the FDIC is inundated with requests. It could be years before I get any of my savings back....if I ever do. 

And I have no idea how much longer my wife will be working. They keep talking about cutting jobs and I'm back trying to find one. Anywhere! I might be the only MBA diggin' ditches but I'll take anything at this point. I won't be able to keep the lights on for long and I'm more worried about food than I am anything else. I was at the store today and a loaf of bread was $7.00!! And they didn't have any.

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## Rick

I'm sorry to report that my neighbor shot himself this afternoon. The sheriff is supposed to evict them tomorrow. The bank foreclosed on their house last month and they had refused to move even though the power was turned off last week. I had been taking wood over to them to help keep them warm but I was starting to get low and thought I might have to stop doing it. I don't guess I'll have to worry about that now. I have no idea what his wife is going to do but their daughter is over there loading stuff into a pickup.

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## Aurelius95

I live in an area of Atlanta where the houses can easily reach the $1 million mark, well at least they used to.  I was a fortunate one.  I bought an older house across from Sugarloaf Country Club (can you say ATT Classic Golf Tournament?) for $130,000 a few years ago.  If I could sell it for $100,000 (now that the financial shtf), I'd be grateful.  Next thing on my mind, where do we go?  My wife's parents live on 8 acres in middle Georgia, so that might be where we're headed for a while.  With no work and no income, I might as well learn how to plant and farm on those 8 acres.  My wife's parents have 3 horses on that land, but the cost of feeding them isn't getting cheaper.  We'll either sell them, trade them, or shoot them.

Anyone know how much land one needs to feed yourself and your family?  Would there be enough left food to trade?  Fortunately, we have two cars that are paid for, so we'll try to unload one for whatever we can get for it.  

At this point, we're all thankful for our health, but we can only take it one day at a time.

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## Beo

I grab my cane pole and go fishing, then after the sun goes down I put on my old cammies and hit the heavy drug areas of the city and start rolling the dope boys in the back allies for all that drug money, don't bank it but stock pile it. Hitting the dope boys about every other night in different parts of the city.  :Big Grin:  Using different tactics and costumes (one night might dress as a wino, next night a hot dog vender) from time to time to keep the cops guessing.  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

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## cabingirl

I think we are headed for a great depression. People will be hungery and mean with know jobs . this want be like the last depression. This one will make the last one look like a piece of cake. Back them lots of people owned and lived on farms, grew their on food and were good people. Now people live one house beside another with no where to raise or garden even if they wanted to, which they don't want to. People today like to rob and kill to get what they want.
  I think people sould start making there homes safer. Bars on the windows, bars across each outside door to name a few things.
  I remeber back years ago my aunt and uncle telling us a true story about how in the last dpression,"29" they had to hide food in different places in their home, they even built fake walls and put food behind the walls. They then went out and hide jars of food in the ground under different trees. When the gangs started breaking into their house and taking there food, things got really bad. They even had one gang of people to come in an whole a knife to their throat and made them tell that the food was behind the wall. Then they were left with on the floor hide under the ground, they went out each night after dark and dug up one jar and would eat that. That is how they kept from sraving.
 Another thing I would do is hid one gun and some ammo under ground. That way if they take whats in the house you have one left. Buy some heavy pvc pipe and two end caps for it. Wrap  the gun and ammo in the news paper, put a coth bag of powed milk , the  gun and ammo into the pipe, take pipe gue and seals the end caps on. If you have an old iron pile, this would be a good place to hid the pipe, move some of the iron, dig a hole, put the ipe into the hole and cover, then lay the iron back over the top of the ground.
  This is all true.
  Cabingirl

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## trax

You wouldn't ever want to be in a big hurry to retrieve that gun.....

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## cabingirl

you right about not wanting to be in a hurry to retrive the gun, howevery you would have one left to tetrieve to at less hunt with or take with you if you have to flee.to the woods. 
cabingirl

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## Sam

This book is a very good guide to the issue of city living in hard times. Give it a look, Paladin Press puts it out. The guy don't like government, but he did his homework on this.

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## trax

> This book is a very good guide to the issue of city living in hard times. Give it a look, Paladin Press puts it out. The guy don't like government, but he did his homework on this.


If the guy doesn't like government, chances are I like him already.

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## Rick

Oh, fiddle faddle! No, people back then didn't grow their own food. It was called the dust bowl and that was one of the contributors to the Great Depression. How would I know that? Well, for one my grandfather lost his farm because of it. World economics is nothing like the 30's. Buy a book on economics and read it. Educate yourself on the differences. You are posting fear not facts.

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## cabingirl

true, it was a dust bowl back then, but my grandfather on both sides, did have large farms, and did farm them. They said it was hard, and didn't raise as much as they sould have, but did raise food for there familys and some friends. 
 cabingirl

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## Rick

I can't believe no one has challenged me. You're either too easy or just no fun. 

Sheeple Rick 

I really should change my avatar. Perhaps I'm a sheep in wolf's clothing.

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## trax

Oh My God! He said "fiddle faddle" he must really be upset this time.

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## nell67

> I can't believe no one has challenged me. You're either too easy or just no fun. 
> 
> Sheeple Rick 
> 
> I really should change my avatar. Perhaps I'm a sheep in wolf's clothing.


BAA BAA, :Big Grin:  j/k

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## trax

> I really should change my avatar. Perhaps I'm a sheep in wolf's clothing.


mmmm, mutton ...arrrrr...<<<droool>>>>

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## trax

> I can't believe no one has challenged me. You're either too easy or just no fun.


I didn't challenge you my wooly little friend because I tend to agree with you (shudder, scary thought)

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## Rick

Good for you, cabingirl!! A come back. Okay, good start. Depends on where their farms were as to whether they kept them. I have houses on both sides of me and I garden. I grow plenty to feed my family and still give food away each year. It doesn't take a lot of ground to raise a lot of food if you do it with some planning. 

As for roving gangs. I can't speak to that. If your uncle says it happened then it must have. I have weapons and so do my neighbors and I'd like to think that we would stand together if the need arose. 

As for making your house safer, just common sense. Sure. If you use bars on windows just remember to use fire escape bars so you don't cage yourself into a burning house with no way out. 

I don't know where you live but you sound scared to me. I'm sorry you feel that way (if you do). No one should feel like that. Do what you think is right to feel safe but make certain your actions are correct for your own protection. 

Here is a link to my site on home protection. It starts out pretty mundane but there is a lot of information on home safety along the lines of what you are talking about. Several pages. Take a look and if you have any questions about it just PM me. 

http://safezonellc.com/personalzone3_2.html

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## Rick

Military cads and SWAT types, help me out on the numbers here. 

Cabingirl, if it's any consoliation, it takes 7 attackers to overcome 1 defender of a fortress. If my numbers are correct, it's 7. The point is, if you learn to defend your home then it takes a lot of bad guys to get to you. A lupara should force an increase in those numbers. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## trax

so basically, the 8th attacker can just have his way with ya, if you're home alone?

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## Rick

Yeah, pretty much. My greatest fear is my enemies will realize that and stop sending the first seven and just start with the 8th. I'm done before the battle starts.

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## Sourdough

Something tells me that the only "WAY" anybody would have with cabingirl is his head removed. I had me a wife from the south, and you don't mess with southern ladies. Did she tell you that her husband is 9' feet tall and bulletproof.

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## Sourdough

It typical Washington fashion, of leaking a future action to see what the stink will be befor the anouncement, this just leaked. (From Shallow Throat) 

Action will be taken agenst those hoarding GOLD. People shall be reminded that the U.S. Dollar is legal tender, and failure to accept said tender shall result in swift action.

Because North Korea has been printing perfect U.S. Dollars 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, this started in 1987, and for 21 years no action has been taken. Further more, where as we gave (The State Department) to the Shaw (sp) of Iran three of our printing press's and the plate's, and the paper, and the special ink, to print U.S.A. $100.00 Bill's. and where as the current government continues to do so, buying the special paper from Canada, and the special ink also from Canada.
 There'for:
New U.S. Treasury will be voiding the current $100.00 Bill's effective February 18, 2008 (President's Day). New $100.00 Dollar bill's will be available for exchange at the rate of (4) four old to (1) one new $100.00 Bill.   Please remember Gold is now $3,900.oo per oz.
 There'for:
The "NEW" money will be: Called "G'dollars" for Gold dollars. This money will be backed by 1/10 oz. of .9999 pure GOLD. The OFFICIAL price of Gold shall be $4,000.00 per oz.
The new money will be RED with GOLD lettering. So you are trading $400.00 of counterfit money which is not backed by anything; in exchange for a new One Hunderd Dollar Bill backed by 1/10 oz. of REAL GOLD.
 There'for:
All hoarded GOLD shall be surrendered at the official rate of $4000.00 per oz.
No person shall have more than 3 0z. of Gold in Jewlery. However special permitts in the form os a Stamp will be available at: BATF&E for a fee of $500.00 per oz. for additional Gold.

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## Rick

(cough, joke, sputter) Hopeak, I just had cold chills run up my spine. I wonder how many on here know how much truth is in your post? Gather 'round chillin' I got me a story to tell.

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## Rick

Just heard some rumors that gold is going to be confiscated. Reminds me of Roosevelt's Executive Order 6102. Setting artificial prices for gold. What good is $4000 an ounce when it will devalue the dollar by half. And I heard they want to issue new $100 dollar bills. Let's see, I can trade in $100 dollars that's only worth $67.00 for $100 bills worth $41.00? I guess I don't understand economics very well. All I know is they are not getting my gold. Not at a poultry $4000 an ounce. I'll bury it first. 

My wife is still working day to day. I have no idea when they'll let her go but it has to happen sooner or later. I heard the county needed two laborers so I went down to the county office. What a mad house. There must have been 200 guys showed up for the jobs. I didn't even stick around.

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## Sourdough

Your old money is counterfit, and as of 2/18/2008 will be void. Anyone in Indiana caught with old $100.00 bill's will be made a example of. If the ploy fails we will declair a "STATE of ECONOMIC EMERGENCY" Via. Executive order, as pushed thru Congress by: Richard Millhouse Nixon. And we we will enforce said order as deemed necessary. Starting with Indiana. You will be shot at sunrise if you resist said order.

Note: That it is all an illusion. The whole monotary system is based on agreement of what something is worth.

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## Rick

I will turn in my $100 bills but just try and pry the gold from my hands. Give me doubloons or give me death! Okay, that might have been a little hasty. What I meant to say was give me doubloons or give me a hang nail. Just forget that first part.

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## Sourdough

Yes you could look at it as you say Rick, But we have lowered inflation by lowering Gold from $4,000.00 in old counterfit Dollars, to $1,000.00 in pretty nice new G'Money. And because we have lowered inflation we can lower the Social Security Payments, and we will all be happy.

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## Sourdough

We will give you dem'Bloomers. who's Bloomer did'ja want????

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## Rick

These new G-Money $100 bills look familiar to me: 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## Sourdough

Rick, Now you don't want to be a bad American, Think of your Country. "Ask not what your Country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your Country".

And you can keep all the Gold you want; You just need to buy the necessary "STAMP" from the BATF&E. The "STAMP" is $500.00 per oz. of gold over 3 oz.

Think of it as a GOLD TAX.

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## Rick

(head slap) Doh!

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## Sam

I don't watch the news, is this on the level?

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## Rick

No. Go back to post 1 and you'll understand. But, hey, we must be doing pretty good if folks are starting think this is real. War of the Worlds here we come.

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## Sourdough

Rick, Please use small words and say what you don't like about this plan. . .??? That is why it was leaked. We Had to take swift action.

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## Sam

I was just loading my Rifle, and looking at which of the meth dealers I was gonna start with. Then I was going to the super market.

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## Rick

The gold tax. The government is taking from us once more. What we need is some big public works project to stimulate the economy. Something that could put hundreds or thousands to work. Like the Golden Gate Bridge or Hoover Dam. Now there's a plan that would pump money into the economy. Why, if me and my neighbors had a job like that we'd be able to buy groceries and the folks at the store would be able to keep their jobs and they'd be able to buy a good used car that would keep the car dealers in business who would be able to make a house payment that would keep the banks open. Yes sir, a big, giant public works project would do some good in this county. Either that or a war to start war manufacturing. Not wishing anything bad on folks just trying to get some money flowing.

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## Sourdough

I am enrolled, lets start with the Bridge to nowhere, we need that bridge, both bridges to nowhere are needed, really. And lets build the TransAlaska Natural Gas Pipeline. And lets build a Railroad to Alaska. This would help all those Bugg'inOut Fellas. They just throw there BOB on the train and next stop log cabin city.

Setting aside the Game for the moment. I think what you suggest is what will happen. And we can fund it with a "GOLD TAX". In fact tax it when it is still in the ground.

----------


## Smok

I am 50 years and retired now I worked very hard for 30 years in the union but I cannot work now  . I  have a very bad back , no fluid in my disks , I've lost two inch's in hight , in pain most days it has gotten so bad that I am on antidepressant Med. Now their going to cut my income from small to nell ?? The house is not paid for but the payment is only $300 a month but if I have no income then it's too much . I have 2 1/2 acre here and a small orchard with a well  some rabbets and 2 goats ,10 Chechen's for eggs I can put in winter red wheat on 1 acre  but the water bill would kill me in the summer so it would just be a garden

----------


## Assassin Pilot

> Regret to inform it is worse in Finland than America. There is no happy face to put on this. Your house sells for $78,883.00 less than you owe. You borrowed the $78,883.00 from your uncle, but now he needs money, he needs your help. This is a world "DEPRESSION". Deal with it. Soon you will be eating every other day. No food. The truth is the young people will have the hardest adjustment to make. And as your FORM name starts with "A" your Father is now unemployed, you have no allowance. As for waiting till it settles, well 11 years from now, It will be half as good as yesterday. HALF. If you are still alive.


F$%&. Then I will have to kill all my neighbors that I don't like for their food and stuff. And I'll need to start a farm in my backyard.... Good thing we have a relatively large pond near our backyard. I'd better plank up all the windows and stock up on chicken-noodle soup and ramen noodles.

----------


## Rick

Jeepers, AP. Edit that out, will ya? There's kids on here (he said to the kid).

----------


## cabingirl

Rick, yes, I do sound afraid, and I guess I am.I live in Mississippi and the crime rate around here is very high. Break ins every day.I have even had someone to come up onto my back porch, open the storm door, and turn the door knob trying to fine the door open. This has happened often.People  have asked me why I don't open the door and see who it is, I tell them the truth, I am chicken.
  When I go to the cabin, I have a 357 mag. on my side at all times while i am out side, we have black bear, wild hogs, and packs of wild dogs running across our land that joins the forrest on two sides.
 Cabingirl

----------


## Sam

Cabingirl, you ain't scared. It's called SMART, and resonable. I'm 6' 250lbs. and I don't just open the door. You keep being smart, I call before I go to peoples house. Most people do.

----------


## Rick

I have to tell you, I wouldn't open the door either. Like Sam said, that's just smart. You might consider some form of self defense. Not only will it provide a means of protecting yourself in many situations but will also give you some confidence. Avoidance is the best form of self defense and that takes a person, like yourself, who is alert to the situation.

----------


## Beo

Take that 357 to the door with you and when you open it put it in their face and say:
"Hello Johnny Butterbutt, can me and Smith & Wesson help you!" 
Just kidding, you did great and what you did was correct in not opening the door. That's was not fear it was action, the action of not putting yourself in a bad situation. Good for you. And even the most hard core men have fear in a bad situation, but controling it and using it to your advantage is the thing of survivors. You controled your fear with common sense. Besides doesn't every person in those horror movies who opens the door or goes into the dark basement get killed? You did great Cabingirl.
By the way, do you know the Waterboy... lol... jk.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Rick

Only when that stupid music is playing. If you avoid opening doors when the music is playing I guess you'd be all right. On the other hand, if the music DOES start playing make certain there are no hockey masks, chain saws or machetes in the house. And for God's sake don't open any doors.

----------


## Rick

That's old stuff from the Fraser Institute. Another "government" conspiracy group. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amero

----------


## Sourdough

HALF TIME SCORE CARD: Well it does not look good. We have 507 views, and 64 posts.

It appears as if we know alot more about "Bugg'in-Out" and existing in a "TSHTF" survival event, than we know about how to deal with a depressing, very slowly decaying economy, which may well take 8 to 12 years of hopeless depression to run it's course, and if history is a teacher will end in WWIII (The fight to control the last Oil).

Here is your problem: TEOTWAWKI and TSHTF are not available today, yesterday, or likely for tomorrow, and they do not appear to be in the near future. What we have is a sick economy, which I think is going to get much sicker. Which really does impact your life. the cost of fuel, housing, food, crime rate, Employment, wages, etc. If you want to worry about something that directly effects your quality of life, that is real, now it is your economic survival.   ***GET IN THE GAME PEOPLE***

----------


## Beo

Hopeak for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Rick

No need to apologize. Just begin providing us with large amounts of wild venison, rabbit and squirrel. It must be processed of course. I actually prefer summer sausage from the venison. Yum!

----------


## Sourdough

Worth Reading if this subject is interesting to you.  I can't get the whole artical to come up. Help someone


http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/242290/

----------


## Rick

You have to sign up to read the rest of the article.

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## Sourdough

sneekie buggers, I signed up, read the article. Then tried to use that http for a link, no joy. Rick, sweetie there is two twinkies in it for you. You much smarter than me. The whole article is open over at Financial Armageddon blogsite, I think you can import the permalink. please with a twinkie on top.

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## Rick

I don't believe, I don't believe, I don't believe. I'm the anti-thesis of Dorothy in the Wozard of Iz. 

Okay (he said through gritted teeth) here it is: 

http://www.financialarmageddon.com/

Scroll down to second article.

----------


## Sourdough

Thank you, the Twinkies are in the mail.

----------


## cabingirl

hopeak,  you have that right about the southern ladies,'The olders ones that is, like me" we are use to hard work, and yes, the only way some one is going to have his way  with me, is he will have to kill me first.

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## Sam

Or you can marry them, that's what I did.  :Wink:

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## Rick

But you can't marry a dead one. I'm pretty certain about that.

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## nell67

> But you can't marry a dead one. I'm pretty certain about that.


I dont think its legal,but who would want too :EEK!:

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## Sam

Well I guess the arguments would be easier to win.  :Smile:

----------


## nell67

> Well I guess the arguments would be easier to win.


LMAO funny sam!

----------


## Sourdough

Traded wife for a Standard Poodle, now every body happy. Poodle happy to be petted any time day or night, does not snore, and best of all is smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds him.

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## Sam

To kinky for me hopeak. ;0

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## Assassin Pilot

> Jeepers, AP. Edit that out, will ya? There's kids on here (he said to the kid).


I think I'm the youngest guy here and next year I'm going off to college. Besides, what would a 10 year old be doing here? Thinking about running away from home lol?

But as you wish, I shall make it even more discrete so those lil 10 year olds won't be able to guess  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## nell67

Umm AP we do have a couple of 13 year olds on the forum.

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## Sourdough

AP, If bacon makes you happy, what makes you angry? If you were King of the world what would you change?

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## Rick

AP - Ten year olds and old men like me.

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## Sam

Be careful, change could mean outlaw.  :Wink:  That would be sad for the yougsters coming for us. They would not have a chance.

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## Sourdough

This Game is over. But Why? Because you don't understand economic theory? Or theories. Or maybe you have your economic house fully in order. You pay your credit cards off fully every month, Your home is paid for, You are debt free. You have investments all over the world. You have Gold, Euros, Yen's, you have the bulk of your cash savings in New Zealand earning 8.2 % interest. You are moving some of your portfolio into Argentina Land holdings, etc..

Or maybe you feel fully insulated, that unemployment, underemployment, inflation, or stagflation, recession, depression  will not impact you. That the "Government" will protect you. Or that the Federal Reserve Open Market committee can solve any economic problem.

What ever your reason I truly hope you are correct. :Smile: 

I fear you are not............ :Frown:

----------


## NY MtnMan72

Im sittin here scratching my head....trying to figure out what this post is really about...? 

A game?    Sorry but to me Survival is not a game... its a way of life.

I have a day job, a normal life-  I sell building materials for a lumber yard.
I do well, decent income- I have a nice place to live (modest), a 2008 Jeep Wrangler parked outside, and I live my life pretty much without worry about all these conspiracy/what if scenarios some of you talk about (a game?).

Why? 
In one room of my apartment sits a backpack stuffed with survival gear- which i will not go into length describing because its not the place or relevant to this post....
Along side the pack, is my .30 carbine with a small pouch containing cleaning kit, mags, and couple hundred rounds of ammo....
ALL of this gear can be grabbed quickly along with some meds and stuff i would need, and i can be in my Jeep and driving in about 2-3 minutes.
POINT-  i am prepared.....
Just like I am prepared even if I am just going for a 4-5 mile day-hike in a local wilderness area....  there are things i take every time that can/would save my life....

I am sorry- but I think its futile and too depressing to sit around and live my life full of worrying about the "what ifs".... 
If you keep all the possibilities in the back of your mind, prepare and plan the best you can-  thats all you can do.  The rest is all things you can't control anyway -so why worry about them? 

Thats my two cents for whatever they're worth.

Art

----------


## Rick

Art - You just described about 98 percent of the folks on this forum. Really. No one thinks survival is a game. In fact, you'll see post after post saying that very thing. More than a few on here live life off the grid. Some completely. You can bet survival is real enough to them. 

The post is nothing more than a bit of a diversion. And we do get off post. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## wareagle69

ist welcome to the forum

 noware you going to bug out is that what i hear? good luck to ya i know your going into the isolated woods to hunt and fish and camo eh? good luck to ya,these little scenarios or games as you call them are exactley the same thing every branch of the mlitary and government run world wide these what if scenarios and they learn from them. maybe something someone will post here will make you stop and think and say i didn't think of that, i posted a thread a long time ago called an absolute much read and the challenges of bugging out, i was thinking more about this early this morning even the mountain men and guys who lived off the land back in the day had some sort of permanate shelter, you live in new york? how many people ther think like you ? even if it's only 10,000 thats allot of people hitting the woods eating all the meat then what? that is why we play these games my freind games training exercises semantics if you need more info on the value of these exercises send a pm to remy and he will give you a short dissertation on the value of this forum

thanks and welcome

                 always be prepared....

----------


## Assassin Pilot

> AP, If bacon makes you happy, what makes you angry? If you were King of the world what would you change?


I would.... hmmm.... make you do 1 year in jail for being hypocritical. Then my mom would be in jail for life..... And also get rid of cars. Trucks are ok because they are very useful for the economy, but no one really needs cars. You can still use a motorcycle though  :Big Grin:

----------


## crashdive123

Art:  This post is just a way for a bunch of us to have a bit of fun.  I don't think that there are very many here (if any) that consider survival a game.  Sometimes in the games that we play, both here and elsewhere we can learn some valuable lessons.  I don't think it hurts to have a bit of fun while learning at the same time.  There are post after post on here that deal with serious issues and take seriously the questions that are asked.  True, we do get off post on occasion (O.K. alot).  You are right.  Survival is not a game.

----------


## NY MtnMan72

Ok, I'd like a chance to revise a little of what i said.

As a GAME- talking about "actual survival" situations is great, fine and I would gladly take part in those- take advice from those more knowledgeable than myself, offer advice on things i have experienced etc etc....

LONG windy posts about the federal reserve, government conspiracy's, and stuff like that is a bunch of crap... sorry, but i dont have time for that nonsense.... someone recently sent me a movie video called "zeitgeist" INSISTING that i watch it....   all it did was attack christianity, spout a bunch of BS conspiracy junk about 911, and infer that our government is run by a bunch of "elite rich people" - ok well that part seems to be true... lol.. !

And as far as living in NY-  i dont know how much some of you actually know about NY.... 
Did you know that NY has one of, if not the largest "forever wild" wilderness areas in the country?  It's called the Adirondack park- encompassing millions and millions of acres that is as "wilderness" as it gets.
And for that matter the upper 2/3 of NY is rolling farm land full of woods, fields of corn/other grains and enough wild game to feed me and many thousands of others for years to come...

Oh, and since Wareagle tells me that " I am not welcome at the forum" ......

I think someone mentioned earlier in one of the first pages that there was another post about actual survival situations...   i think ill look for that one and see if i can find something interesting to read.... :Smile:

----------


## wareagle69

re read my post where does it say you are not welcome to the forum?

----------


## Sourdough

Sorry to advise that nothing in that thread involved Government Conspiracy's, Nothing.

You might want to read it from the beginning. This thread is based on what really happened 1983 to 1995 in Anchorage, Alaska. 73% of the banks went under, and were taken over by FDIC. This might interest you 75% of the lumber yards went Bankrupt.

All I was trying to do was help people understand what we went through. And that it looks like you, lower 48 are just starting to enter.

If you want to pretend it is all going to be wonderful, and that it will pass in 6 months, fine by me.

----------


## Sourdough

It is good to hear that N.Y. State "does not" have any food inflation. Did you know that in your lifespan N.Y. City was Bankrupt???? And I have shot a lot of deer around Lake Placid. That is great wilderness. The reason I left Upstate N.Y. and moved to Alaska, is that a guy got his head blown off by another hunter, in my deer stand that I built out of native materials. That was 1969

----------


## Rick

NY - I've actually spent quite a bit of time in New York. From Binghamton north to Sherburne and east to Hershey. (God, I've spent time everywhere.) It's the only place I've ever been where you could walk out of a barn and in the next step get run over on a state highway. I've never seen barns so close to the road. I once told a local that if they bulldozed the hills and filled in the valleys he'd have some nice flat land. Didn't seem to find any humor in that. There is a LOT of winderness except for that one little blight in the corner of the state oh, and those uber taxes. And you're more that welcome to join us.

----------


## Sourdough

[QUOTE=NY MtnMan72;25699]
And as far as living in NY-  i dont know how much some of you actually know about NY.... 
Did you know that NY has one of, if not the largest "forever wild" wilderness areas in the country?  It's called the Adirondack park- encompassing millions and millions of acres that is as "wilderness" as it gets.
And for that matter the upper 2/3 of NY is rolling farm land full of woods, fields of corn/other grains and enough wild game to feed me and many thousands of others for years to come...

I know something about N.Y. State, My Great Grandmother was Pure Shelby Indian, (I got the nose to prove it) from Shelby, N.Y., I graduated from Medina High, Medina, N.Y., Spent 4 years at R.I.T. Rochester, N.Y. Half my kin still live in Upstate.

----------


## Rick

Wait - Before this goes any further....Re read WE's post. It's mispelled. It should read. 
FIRST - Welcome to the forum. He butchered the first word.

----------


## Tony uk

> Wait - Before this goes any further....Re read WE's post. It's mispelled. It should read. 
> FIRST - Welcome to the forum. He butchered the first word.


Last time i by a steak from him  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Rick

If you really want to present a survival challenge to this group, make it something to do with spelling. misspell a word and loose your knife. Another and you loose your fire starter. Too many and you start shedding clothes. I think all of us would wind up naked, shivering and hungaaereery. Hey, where's my knife?

----------


## Tony uk

Hay Rikc, Hov Ar Yow ?

----------


## crashdive123

Strip spelling.  What'll they think of next?

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## Tony uk

> Strip spelling. What'll they think of next?


Tins in a bean

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## Sourdough

RICK,  Don't worry about me getting to far out of hand, I am all but gone from here also. :Smile:

----------


## nell67

> If you really want to present a survival challenge to this group, make it something to do with spelling. misspell a word and loose your knife. Another and you loose your fire starter. Too many and you start shedding clothes. I think all of us would wind up naked, shivering and hungaaereery. Hey, where's my knife?


I'm not playing this game,no wayyyyy!!!! :EEK!:

----------


## NY MtnMan72

ok i forgive Wareagle..  it is a typo, and i read it as "isnt"  and it was probably "first" or something like that....    see i am willing to use my head and compromise....

Before you all get the idea that im a troublemaker... well i am somtimes but who isnt....?    Anyway I ought to be a little more careful about posting my strong opinions until i get too know you all a little better.

ME ?   I am a conservative republican in a god-awful blue state... yes Hillary Clinton is my senator, but no i most certainly did not vote for her....

NYC for the most part is a double edge sword....  too some extent it is the mecca of activity...  some of the best museums, shows, restaraunts and etc etc in the world can be found there.  On the other hand NYC and western long island make NY a blue state- if you took them off, the whole rest of the state would be RED....  
Most upstaters (one of which i am) consider and call the city " the sewer"  because of the politics, and the huge bloated amount of taxes it creates.

I come from an extremely rural country background.  As a child other kids in school would ask me about some TV show/s and i didnt have a clue.  We didnt have cable, and the three stations of TV that came in on the rabbit ears were basically 85-90% static.   My brother and i spent most of our time in the woods.  Constructing shelters (for fun), hunting, hiking, learning about nature from my grandfather.  We encountered bears, had lots of close calls- even had a "survival" situation where my brother broke his leg over two miles into the woods from our house....    
I have done extensive camping and hiking on my own- and although i do consider myself "somewhat experienced" - i would NEVER out of pride assume that i could handle any situation.....

So--  as i mentioned in past post, i look forward to chatting in a good polite constructive manner with you all, and adding something good when i can....

Art

----------


## crashdive123

Whew!  Glad that got cleared up.  Art, I'm looking forward to your views.

----------


## Sourdough

Art, Ditto what Crash said. Look forward to your thoughts and experiences.
And some of us are so old they had no T.V. at all as a young'in. And I love N.Y. wilderness. :Smile: 

What I miss most about N.Y. is we don't have any woodchucks.

----------


## Rick

Okay, Hopeak. Explain yourself. 




> I am all but gone from here also.

----------


## NY MtnMan72

> What I miss most about N.Y. is we don't have any woodchucks.



Well now...  lets see....   we can buy a dozen or so have-a-hart traps, put extra food in them....  catch us some woodchucks, and I'd be glad to UPS some up too you.....


2 things... 

  where i come from woodchucks are fair game/ target practice....
I certainly dont enjoy killing living things for no purpose- but when i was younger i killed several woodchucks.

Also, i heard from my grandfather that when he was a kid they had a family place in northeastern Pennsylvania, and that people there used to kill woodchucks and both eat the fresh meat, but also can it for storage....

He said it wasnt bad-  almost like beef, but richer, and more tender....  after all they do just munch grass.

Havent tried one- but if things ever get rough, well it would be interesting to throw one on a spit over the fire and see how it turns out....

Art

----------


## dilligaf2u2

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Dang, I love spell check!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I want to post something here. I am just now sure how it will be taken.

Nature has a way of cleansing itself. Threw change and adjustments the world will go on. 

I can not say much about financial management. You would know that if you saw my books. I do know that if a financial collapse comes it will not be all bad. 

Threw change we learn. Mabe investing in that bike was not a bad thing. 

I can only speak from what I see. Rent went from 500 a month this time last year to 800 for the same place today. 

A friend of mine just bought a house. 1200 a month in payments. Her car payment is 750 a month. If eather her or her husband are taken out of the work force, they loose everything. 

Not many are saving these days. Everyone I know is in debt up past their eye brows. They all have cell phones and eat out 2 or 3 times a week because it is easier. I want it all and I want it now seems to be the way of things. Besides me who saves their nickles and dimes for what they want? 

There are excuses for everything. I misbehave because I have an excuse(ADS Is the #1 problem in schools today, IMO)and it is all everyone Else's fault. 

I almost look forward to the time when people have to account for themselves. If you wanted to eat, you worked! If you wanted a new something or other, you saved for it. Kids were taught to control their money. 

I will stop now before I say 37 pages of what we all see daily. 

Perhaps change is good. Besides we could use about 3 billion less people in the world.

Don

----------


## Rick

Don - There really is a lot of truth in what you said. I don't wish ill on anyone but we are a very soft, fast everything nation. I have a 5 gallon water jug of pennies almost all of which I've picked up off the ground. It was only a penny to someone else but I'll bet there's a hundred or so in that jug. 

It's a pretty simple concept. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Save your money until you can afford it. Ask yourself, do I really need that? A lot of what we buy is bought on impulse. 

You can increase your disposable income (that which is left after bills) by reducing your debt or increasing your income (or both). So unless someone plans to leave you a hunk a hunk a burnin' money, save your pennies! :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Sourdough

And another Bank Say's trust me, "We are solid nothing to worry about." And today they get nationalized.

----------


## Sourdough

> And another Bank Say's trust me, "We are solid nothing to worry about." And today they get nationalized.


Kind of spooky: As most likely TWO or THREE financial institutions may get Nationalized this weekend. Spooky, Spooky, Scary..... :EEK!:

----------


## NS0201

> If the guy doesn't like government, chances are I like him already.


I already ready got you on my good side then  :Smile:

----------


## Sourdough

Any one want to play the 2009 Depression Game.

----------


## Sourdough

Dow is down 700 and the FED injected another 600, billion dollars last night. We might be in a weeeee bit of a sticky wicket

----------


## BraggSurvivor

HAHA! 


YES, DOWN 777! 


777 points closer to death and destruction! 



I hope you suckers got KEVLAR!

----------


## BraggSurvivor

This is how most people will eventually play your game:

Finance crisis claims NZ man 
WELLINGTON 
29/09/2008 12:00:00 AM 
London's financial centre is in shock after a New Zealand millionaire apparently haunted by the pressures of dealing with the credit crunch threw himself in front of an express train. 

The New Zealand financier, Kirk Stephenson, 47, who was married with an eight-year-old son, died under the wheels of a 160km/h express train at Taplow railway station, Berkshire, the Daily Mail newspaper reported. 

Police said Mr Stephenson had thrown himself in front of the Plymouth-to-Paddington train. 

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news...n/1284901.aspx

----------


## Ad_hominem

Hello to all, 

I am new to this board and this is my first post. I rather like the topic and it's been an interest of mine for some years now.  I work in the financial services industry and I've watched this slow-motion train wreck unfold since about 2 years ago.
  I'll say, with some certainty, that the fed has no idea what they're doing with this bailout (in terms of helping us) but they justify it by saying at least they're doing something.  If I poured hot coals down my pants while  my house was flooding, I could say the same thing; "I'm not sure if this is going to stop the water but at least I've done something!"
As a survival strategy there are several things I've been doing to prepare for the now unfolding economic collapse.
1. Trade all disposable "money" into hard assets like canned goods, dry goods, water filtration equipment, and precious metals. Personally, I like Candian Silver and Gold Maple Leafs. 
2. Stockpile Guns and ammo. Although I respect all life, the sooner we can overcome the delusion that people will be civil and orderly in the face of discontinuity and chaos, the more likely we are to give ourselves a fighting chance when the real panic ensues.  For ammo, I like 7.62x 39 for my sks (most common round in the world) and the 22lr for the side arm. 
3. Build a network of like minded people who can band together for the second waive.  See, when the SHTF, people will panic and loot..like Katrina. This is the first wave: Scared, disorganized, panick strichen.  This is the least of my worries. I'm worried about wave 2.  a few weeks or months later, organized gangs of marauders will be looking for resources, and that's when it would be nice to have a fortified position.   
4. Learn new skills now. This is not just a crisis in finance. It's also, and primarily, a crisis in energy. Without Cheap fossil fuel this way of life is gone regardless of wether or not the government bails Wall Street out. I say, learn how to be autonomous. Learn skills that will be of value in the post cluterfuc)(.  Last Week I canned all the green tomatoes from this summers garden. The week before I cooked half my meals in my solar oven (good for pasteurizing water too.) Next week I want to learn to make my own soap. http://www.thefarm.org/charities/i4at/surv/soapmake.htm
5. Find a trade niche. It could be a skill or an item that you decided to hoard. What will people need in this post apocalypse of finance and energy?  Things like booze and cigs come to mind. They say money can't buy love but cigarettes can buy you love in jail. Well I think this will go double in the post clusterfuc)(. Luxury items like toilet paper tampons and chocolate will be dear to those who don't have them.  Personally I'm hoarding sugar, honey, and salt. They last indefinitely and if it turns out I'm wrong, than I can still use them.   
6. Knowledge is key here. Build a library of books on stuff like homesteading, edible wild berries...etc. Find how-to articles on the internet and PRINT THEM OUT for youself in a binder. I've gone through three black ink cartriges already. You want them in print for when the grid power become, at best, unreliable.  And if you have an overabundance of books like Corporate Finance 3rd ed. then don't throw them away because you'll need kindling. 
7. Talk to people. Engage them in conversation about these things. You need to convert the sheeple while there is precious prep. time left. 
8. Finally, do something every day to further your cause. No matter how small and seemingly insignificant. If you can commit to doing something everyday, then it will keep the matter in the forefront.  

This has been my  family strategy so far.  I hope I've given people something worthwhile to think about. Sorry for the long-winded post. 

Endnote: The Dow ended up under 8600 today. Very eerie. The funny part is that we're still waiting for the CDS shoe to drop. When it does, we will all be longing for the semi-normal days of the mortgage meltdown.

----------


## Rick

Uh, welcome, I think. Another Gloom and Doomer.

----------


## Ad_hominem

> Uh, welcome, I think. Another Gloom and Doomer.


I prefer "non-delusional urban survivalist."

----------


## trax

Oh yeah, I prefer "god over all  he surveys and emporer for life of free traxistan" but mostly I'm just another workin' shmo.

----------


## Sourdough

Or (BOL) "Bump on Log", Sorry could not resist.

----------


## Ad_hominem

trax, I'm a working shmo too but it doesn't mean I should stay uninformed. 

Well, in 'merica, we let the power elite destroy the Bretton Woods System (gold standard,) deregulate and destroy consumer protection,  create a "consumer economy" by loading the masses with debt, leverage that debt 40 times over, create debt notes in the form of new greenbacks, outsource all our manufacturing overseas, deplete all our  oil resources, and enslave our population with income tax, a central banking system, astronomical inflation, and a huge and ever more powerful government. Right right now our government is technically insolvent (assets - liabilities is negative.)  Also, all of this is taking place with a backdrop of global oil depletion and rising national tensions over the remaining resources.  We haven't even touched on pestilence and natural disasters yet.  All things considered, some would say I have a cheerful dispostion. 
And although it may not get to the point of every-man for himself, and i hope it doesn't, it is certainly prudent to prepare for the worst.  There is no easy way to explain to people that discontinuity will be the order of the day, but we're seeing it right now. 

Call me what you want but I want poeple to know that there are important differences between 1929 and 2008: 

1929- All the capital and factories are sitting in place waiting to take orders. 2008, not so much.

1929- huge regimented and skilled labour force ready to be put to work waiting for direction. 2008, the only skills we've developed are flipping houses and running Dollar Stores. 

1929- America was sitting on the largest oil reserve in the world. 2008 American oil production peaked in 1972 and today Foreign National oil companies are slowly cutting the global players out of the picture.  

1929, people had a sense of community, and the civic infrastructures of everyday life. 2008, All our civic fabric has been rolled up, thrown in the garbage and supplanted by Walmart and Costco. Now all we have is 99 cent plastic junk and a sense of entitlement that we deserve better than everybody else. 

1929- we had walkable neighbourhoods with trollies and bus service. 
2008- we have 6000 sq foot builder mansions in the outer reaches of the suburban asteroid belts. We can't afford to heat them, we can't afford the commute, and we can't afford the payments.  

I don't think their is any scenario that could have played out to make us more ill-prepared for the coming convulsions than what has happened thus far.  I will take my chances knowing that I'm prepared for the worst.  Please don't misread me. I'm not a prophet  or a fortuneteller. I don't know what the future holds. All I'm saying is the facts speak for themselves.

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## Rick

> create a "consumer economy" by loading the masses with debt


Seriously, now. "They" are responsible for loading the masses with debt? The masses take no responsibility for loading it on themselves? Interesting. 




> I don't know what the future holds. All I'm saying is the facts speak for themselves.


What facts? You didn't list any. And who are these people that everyone is talking about that wants to enslave us? We have federal employees on here. Is it them? Why, I'll ban them right here and now if it is. That will show 'em. Name names. Who are these fiends? 

I don't know how old you are but I can tell you that 83-84 was a lot worse than this. I've seen it come and I've seen it go. Just another business cycle.

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## trax

Sorry I took so long getting back to you all on this, I had to discipline one of the "unpaid help" for serving my coffee not exactly right...what? oh...umm...enslave people? I don't know anything about that Rick. I'm not one of those fiends, oh no...

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## DOGMAN

I was in 7th grade in 83 & 84, they were good times.  What was the business world and economic outlook like then?  I honestly don't have a clue.  I remember getting a new Suzuki dirt bike and that about it.

Please elaborate, because I want to remain optimistic .

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## wareagle69

this seems to be a repeating topic here but WE brought this on ourselves by being greedy and thinking that if the jones have it then we should too go earn it you blank blank blank blank blank blank i'm tired of this crap let it all fall apart the strong will survive and rebuild the rest will vanish am i srtong enough to survive only time will tell

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## Ad_hominem

> Seriously, now. "They" are responsible for loading the masses with debt? The masses take no responsibility for loading it on themselves? Interesting. 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts? You didn't list any. And who are these people that everyone is talking about that wants to enslave us? We have federal employees on here. Is it them? Why, I'll ban them right here and now if it is. That will show 'em. Name names. Who are these fiends? 
> 
> I don't know how old you are but I can tell you that 83-84 was a lot worse than this. I've seen it come and I've seen it go. Just another business cycle.


As for people loading themselves up with debt, shure they should shoulder some reponsibility but you're missing the point in that this is more of a macro analysis and less micro: More about the forest and less about the trees. 

The people I am talking about is what sociologists refer to as the "power elite. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_elite
More Specifically, it's the banker who control the federal reserve not your piddly little federal employees. You  see rick, the federal reserve is not really a federal institution. It is controlled by private interests. This is a fact. also, you may want to re-read the post. Global oil production has peaked and is now in decline: fact.  The suburbanizarion of towns since the second world war: fact. 
the differences between 29 and 08, all facts. Do you deny that we've outsourced manufacturing? Do you deny that we're living in an economy based on halucinated wealth? Our civic infrastructure: Where are all the mom and pop shos that used to line your main street?  

So what are these bankers doing? JP Morgans of the world are selling their distressed assets to taxpayers for higher-than market prices through their exacting control of the administration.  This is all that is meant by "direct cash injections."  Wall street is robbing you blind and it will only make the fallout worse in the end. 

As for "enslaving us," the macro argument applies here.  An individual can be blamed for poor judgement about over extension but when it happens to everyone all at once then there is something else at play here. Have you ever taken a stats course? If so than you probably heard of the Law of Large Numbers.  It essentially means that the larger the sample, then the more progressively significant any difference is.   The more simultaneous the hardship that people face, the more likely that there is a structural contribution (remember, correlation is not causation and I never said that people should't take responsibility for themselves.) 

As for 83-84, I wish we could have had that back in 2001 when the natural business cycle was supposed to end.. Instead it was prolonged by a credit bubble and now the bubble is prolonged by the bailout. You'll see there is much pain to be dealt yet. This is just the beginning. 

A few films and books and links I would recommend for some enlightenment on the topic, if you're so inclined: 


http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/
Crossing the Rubicon
Agorafinancial.com
The End of Suburbia





Look, if you're in disagreement and you want to re-arrange things so they make sense to you then fine. Just don't tell me i haven't included any facts.

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## Rick

1983 saw unemployment rates above 10% throughout the first half of the year trailing into 9% and finally 8%+ during the 4th quarter. 1984 never got below 7%. (Currently 6.1%)

Inflation rates finally began to stabilize in 1983 after 3 consecutive years of double digit inflation. The worst was 1980 when inflation never dropped below 12%. Today, it is 5.37% (August rate).  

1983 was the first year that the economy began to stabilize after the oil crisis of 1979-80 and a full recession that occurred from 1980 through 1982. 

If you study that time period from an economic perspective you'll find that many of the factors that lead up to the 1979-82 recession were parallel to the depression of the 1930s. Investment purchases, for example, were following the same trends. Everyone was clamoring about the economic melt down and we truly came very close.

The major difference between then an now is in money policy. It was extremely tight in 1979-82 in an effort to keep a lid on inflation. 

This business cycle is much more difficult than most but not as bad as some have been. We've weathered worse and we'll weather this one, too.

Like you, Ad, my major is in business and where I spent my life. I also taught business, accounting and management at the college level so I do have some insight into the issues, which you've over simplified, perhaps for my benefit.

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## Ad_hominem

All true Rick, 

And I didn't want to insult your intelligence. 
You haven't accounted for the difference between the 70's oil crisis and today's oil crisis.  The 70's saw stagflation mostly because of a peak in local production early in the decade coupled by the advent of OPEC.  The decade that ensued saw a glut of oil on the market as a result of external supplies from a swing state -namely saudi arabia. 

Today we face a decline in global supply. 80 m barrels a day and dropping, while new users are coming online at an unprecedented rate. Yes prices are low now but don't be fooled. This is simple deman destruction from poor shlebs like me changing our behavior.  That said, when we get into the real energy crunch which is just behind this financial mess, there will be no swing state to supply us. There won't be any martians there to save our desperate ez motoring society.  

On a different scale, what it means to the day to day activities of you and I is startling.   1 calorie that you ingest for your body required 10 calories of energy inputs to grow. This includes natural gas-based fertilizers and the fuel for the machines to do the field-work.  This is only for veggies as does not include transportation, packaging and marketing. Figure those in, and the ratio is even higher.  With meat it's over 100-1.  So a meal consisting of 500 calories of meat will cost 50,000 calories of inputs. There really is no free lunch.  Essentially, we eat oil and no amount of solar or wind or energy harnessed from patting ourselves on the back is going to change the fact that this is a problem of SCALE.  While the financial crisis is interesting we have to put into context that it did not develop in a vacuum and that it had significant interactions with the energy crisis.  When this energy crisis chicken comes home to roost, i'm sure it will dwarf the piddly chick recessions of decades past. You cannot grow an economy without energy. You can't even sustain it. 
As we type, global oil players like BP and Shell are either getting kicked out of countries like Nigeria, Russia, and venuzuela or they're being forced to renegotiate contracts on much less favourable terms. Doesn't look good for us my friend. 



Gone will be all the supply streams of F150s and private jets, and cheap plastic crap from china.  The trucking system will collapse because too many axles will break due to the horrendous amount of resources required to upkeep the highways (mostky in terms of energy.) With trucking gone, traditional 18 wheeler commerce follows.  After that, who knows?

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## wareagle69

holy crap i think someone morphed bragg and remy together i'm gonna need glasses after this weekend

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## Ad_hominem

> Inflation rates finally began to stabilize in 1983 after 3 consecutive years of double digit inflation. The worst was 1980 when inflation never dropped below 12%. Today, it is 5.37% (August rate).


Just a little rebuttle here:  A lot depends on this number, like government pensions and the like. It is in the state's best interest to keep this number low albeit artificailly; like when they factored energy out of inflation, which was one of the key factors. This is like saying "inflation wouldn't be so bad if we factored inflation out of it."

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## Rick

First, you assume I have intelligence to insult. 
Second, I was just responding to Jason's question about the 80's recession. 
Third, You need to look around at the posts. There was one on here about a month ago that said peak oil was a myth perpetrated by someone for some reason. Oil is auto generated deep within the earth or something like that. It's getting so even anarchists have anarchists. 
Fourth, you're right about the energy. I used a lot putting out my garden. Don't you hate it when you lose a hoe in your garden?

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## crashdive123

> Don't you hate it when you lose a hoe in your garden?


Nope.  Not gonna do it. :Big Grin:

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## Rick

...(wink!) :Wink:

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## Ad_hominem

Is this a good thing?  If so then, thanks. 




> holy crap i think someone morphed bragg and remy together i'm gonna need glasses after this weekend

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## Rick

You are too new to want to know the answer yet. All in good time, grasshopper.

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## crashdive123

> Is this a good thing?  If so then, thanks.


What's today....Friday?  Yeah you're OK on Friday.

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## wareagle69

fuuny you looked at  that as a good thing hhmm tells me allot about you oh crap now i sound like remy

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## crashdive123

Who me?....

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## wareagle69

no dude the new guy ad something or another

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## crashdive123

gotcha......

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