# Survival > Bushcraft Medicine >  Spider bites

## Wildthang

What are the correct procedures for dealing with spider bites while you are out in the wilderness. I was reading where golfer rookie Daniela Holmqvist was golfing, and got bit by a black widow. She took a golf tee and opened the wound, and squeezed the poisen out like a female Rambo and finished the game.
So I am wondering is did she do the right thing? I was not aware of that being a prescribed fix for a spider bite, but on the other hand, what is the best thing to do to a spider bite?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-d...859--golf.html

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## hunter63

Good question....was bitten on the neck by a big spider, which was kinda hard to identify as I smashed it as soon as it hit me.

We were bow hunting in a hike/canoe in camp, using a lot of primitive rondy gear.

Not an overly done FAK....so a poultice of mashed up raw potato under a dressing, seemed to draw out what ever was there.....But took about 2 months to completely heal.
Seems the bite rots you from the inside in that area.....
Also hit up the benadryl.......

Note: carry a switch to swish in front of you, sneeking thru the brush, they will make new webs over nite....on 4 wheelers as well.

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## crashdive123

There are thousands and thousands of species of spiders in the United States.  There are only a few (less than 5 IIRC) that are actually poisonous.  Treating a spider bite like you would treat a bee sting is the first thing that should be done.  If the spider can be identified as venomous then further medical attention may be wise.

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## RandyRhoads

Rather mild emergency medicine. A black widow has neurotoxins but rarely is serious enough to cause respiratory failure. Most don't require antivenin. I was bitten in my sleep. Got sick as hell and felt like a car was parked in my surrounding muscles. If you don't have resp problems after I think 8 hours you're good. Life will just suck for a while. I don't think brown recourses are anything immediate your worry about. Just the hemp toxins resulting a in tissues necrosis in the following days

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## GreatUsername

How about treating the symptoms? Hobo spiders and Brown Recluses tend to have necrotic bites, and I honestly don't know first aid for these types of wounds, as they are generally not lethal, but extremely painful and take a long time to heal. I assume it might be similar to treatment for a bad laceration, but having never experienced it, I'm not sure.

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## crashdive123

Here's some info on Brown Recluse Spider treatments.  *WARNING - GRAPHIC PICTURES* http://www.brown-recluse.com/bitephotos.html

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## Rick

There are only two poisonous spiders in my locale; black widow and brown recluse. Fortunately, both are somewhat rare and bites to humans even more rare. At least around here. We're actually on the northern fringe for both. 

From what I've read about 50% of brown recluse bites don't result in any problems at all. There are actually tests that a hospital can perform to verify a brown recluse bite by looking at the enzymes in the poison. 

We have the Southern Black Widow around here. That's the one with the familiar hour glass shape. If we have the Northern Black Widow I've never seen it. Again, some folks are not bothered by the bite. 

Never having been bitten by either one and not knowing what my reaction to the venom might be I think I'd opt for medical treatment if I was fairly certain one or the other had body slammed me and bit me. If it were one of my grand kids there is no doubt they would be at the ER pronto.

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## kyratshooter

With brown recluse the bite and treatment of the bite area are only part of the problem.  I have lost several friends to brown recluse bites due to complications.  Liver failure, kidney failure, autoimune system shutdown.  The last one was only 4 years ago.  She was bitten and fought the effects for a year, then her kidneys shut down.  She was not a transplant candidate and did not respond to dialisyis well.  

Two friends had severe autoimune shutdowns after BR bites and expired by disolving from the inside out like some flesh eating bacteria had attacked them.

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## Rick

Oh, should have mentioned good post, wildthang. This is not something that has had much visibility and something that anyone that spends time in the field could certainly encounter. Good post.

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## RangerXanatos

I only know of the Brow Recluse and Black Widows being around here that you have to worry about.  I'm more so worried about brown recluses.  Many spiders are small and brownish.  I don't want to get anywhere near them to see if they are playing the fiddle or not.  The black widow is easier to identify without getting as close.  Either one around the home gets squished.  Out in the woods, I leave them alone.

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## ubercrow

The worst in the Rocky mountain region are the Hobos IMO. I have seen dozens of bites and some of them get pretty serous. In Idaho the Hobo are  all over certain times a year and they love to get inside houses, tents, campers. Usually they get in your clothing and bite you as they  get smashed. The bites can be nasty and start to eat the muscle.  
One time in Utah I left my tent flap open all night and woke up with probably about 50-100 Hobos all over the inside of my 7X9 tent :Ohmy: . 

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We have Brown Recluse(which get confused a lot with the Hobo) in Colorado and they don't seem to be that much of a problem. We also have black widows which are usually not that aggressive and seem to stay in the wild mostly.

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## Winter

> There are thousands and thousands of species of spiders in the United States.  There are only a few (less than 5 IIRC) that are actually poisonous.  Treating a spider bite like you would treat a bee sting is the first thing that should be done.  If the spider can be identified as venomous then further medical attention may be wise.


Sorry Crash, but all spiders are poisonous/venomous. Most have a dose that is relatively harmless to humans.

I had a spider bite from an unknown spider. Turned a spot the size of a dime into black rotting flesh under the top layer of skin. I had to pick it out. It smelled
horrendous.

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## RandyRhoads

> Sorry Crash, but all spiders are poisonous/venomous. Most have a dose that is relatively harmless to humans.
> 
> I had a spider bite from an unknown spider. Turned a spot the size of a dime into black rotting flesh under the top layer of skin. I had to pick it out. It smelled
> horrendous.


If you really want to get into THAT debate... No spiders are poisonous. ALL are venomous in the regards to having saliva.... venom is just modified saliva...one could argue all creatures are venomous that contain saliva containing proteins/enzymes is venomous...

Remember when it was questionable weather Komodo dragons were venomous or just had nasty bacteria in their mouths? Scientists are now trying to argue ALL Varanid species (monitor lizards) are venomous. Even green iguanas are being argued as being venomous, however mild it may be...

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## Winter

Airborne, I'm gonna recycle you to ground week.

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## jfeatherjohn

This is a  time when a sawyer extractor comes in handy. Spiders just are big squirters like so many of the snakes. Wouldn't want to be sucking though.
If you can get to the bite within 2-3 minutes, you stand a fine chance of getting almost all the venom.
I'd try it after 5 minutes,if it was me, because the necrotizing venoms are thicker, and just don't move as well into the bloodstream.
Those extractors are good on stings, as well, but scrape the stinger out first, or the vacuum will inject more toxin.

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## RandyRhoads

Hate to break it to you but that picture is incorrect, at least it made me laugh.  Well kind of. I hate the ridiclous wealth of incorrect information on the internet.

http://insects.about.com/od/insects1...-poisonous.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question...1065950AA3DeJp

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....om-and-poison/

http://bittelmethis.com/poisonous-an...he-difference/

Edit: I had to find this picture so I found it on  http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...ds/spider7.htm
The article even specifies venom gland and duct. Why someone labeled the pictured as "Poison" duct and gland, I have no idea.

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## RandyRhoads

> This is a  time when a sawyer extractor comes in handy. Spiders just are big squirters like so many of the snakes. Wouldn't want to be sucking though.
> If you can get to the bite within 2-3 minutes, you stand a fine chance of getting almost all the venom.
> I'd try it after 5 minutes,if it was me, because the necrotizing venoms are thicker, and just don't move as well into the bloodstream.
> Those extractors are good on stings, as well, but scrape the stinger out first, or the vacuum will inject more toxin.


Agghhh... you aren't the MD on this site are you? I can't remember which used that was..

Not entirely sure how much harm this would cause to a hemotixic spider bite, but on a snake envenomation, these cause more harm, and do virtually nothing as far as removing venom.

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## hunter63

This is a good thread....have had some encounters in the past, and still don't really know the proper procedure for 1st aid.

Spiders as with anything else, has their place.......I had a big yellow and black one guarding my cabbage and cauliflower from cabbage moths on summer.

It's important to stay away, be aware where you might uncover them, and generally  avoid them...... It no fun riding down a trail in a Louisiana pine tree plantation at 15 MPH and the the driver bail out when hit in a face by a "big'un"

BTW, I have found that Preperation H "coolling gel" does help with all sorts of bites.....

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## Wildthang

Well here is one recommendation for treating brown recluse bites, it seems to be basically treated like a snakebite for the most part!

Brown recluse spider bite treatment and first aid
When bitten by a brown recluse spider, it is important not to panic and stay calm. Being nervous actually allows the venom to spread inside the victim's body. Contact the nearest health center or hospital and seek immediate medical attention. You can also go to the nearest toxicology center near you. It is important to take note of the age of the victim, what time the spider had bitten the victim and the weight and the condition of the person. You should also be able to point the spot where you have been bitten. If it is possible to catch the spider that has bitten you, place it in a secured container or bottle so that it can be easily identified whether it is a brown recluse spider or not.


If the spider bite appears to be reddish and begin to get swollen, you can place an ice to lessen any pain but take note that excessive cold may add injury to the bite. You can also wash the entire area of the bite using soap and cool water - not warm water. Do not use tourniquets because it can only compress the area of the bite but you can use sterilized bandages.

To relieve pain caused by the bite, you can take anti inflammatory drugs as first aid treatment like naproxen or ibuprofen. Make sure that the victim does not do any abrupt movements or do any strenuous activities. The body part where the bite appears should always be above the victim's heart whenever possible. You can also take acetaminophen for pain relief.

Make sure that the area of injury is away from heat which can be a catalyst to tissue destruction. Do not put any type of unprescribed ointment to the area such as hydrocortisone cream or other steroid-based ointment without the approval from a doctor. Never use a suction device in the attempt of removing the venom or cut out the area of the skin where the bite appears.

Getting medical attention as soon as possible can help alleviate the symptoms of the bite and to make sure that the venom does not poison the entire body system. A hospital will get vital support so as to avoid further infections and other dangerous symptoms related to the bite.

At some point, the extraction of the necrotic tissue during the first days of the bite was believed to relieve certain symptoms but was later proved that doing so can actually delay treatment.

http://brown-recluse-spiders.net/bite_treatment.htm

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## Wildthang

Info on the Widow bite:

Photo Credit halloween spider image by Nicemonkey from Fotolia.com 
The black widow is one of the few dangerous spiders in the United States. Even though black widow spider bites can cause health problems, they are rarely lethal. Individual reactions to bites vary greatly but effective treatment rarely requires hospitalization or medication. While emergency care is usually not necessary, staff at the University of Maryland Medical Center advise to always seek medical attention after a black widow bite. Prompt cleansing of the wound and treating the symptoms goes far in preventing infection and further complications.

Cleanse the Wound
After being bitten by a black widow, the first step in effective treatment is to thoroughly clean the wound, and the skin around the wound, with soap and water. Deep cleansing helps prevent infection. To further prevent infection, the University of Maryland Medical Center urges the application of antibiotic lotion or cream to the wound.

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Slow the Venom's Spread
If the black widow bite is on an arm or a leg, applying a snug bandage above the wound, followed by elevation of the limb, can help slow or halt the venom's spread. The Mayo Clinic warns not to have the bandage so tight that it cuts off circulation in the arm or leg.

Apply Cold Cloth or Ice Pack
At the spider bite location, apply a cloth dampened with cold water. An ice pack is an alternative, but use a layer of cloth between the ice and skin prior to application.

Seek Medical Attention for Further Care
Use the above steps for preliminary treatment, but no matter how slight the symptoms appear, seek medical attention. Depending on the severity of the bite, medical treatment can include muscle relaxants, more powerful pain relievers and other medication, and supportive care. Although usually not required, antivenin and hospitalization can occur in the case of severe symptoms. To alleviate acute pain take acetaminophen.

Caution and Infection
People bitten by a black widow often needlessly call the poison control center thinking that specialized treatment is needed for their wound. California Poison Control System advises that no special therapy exists other than treating the symptoms. Most importantly, cleaning the bite area soon after discovery prevents infection. If infection does occur, or if the wound does not show signs of healing, then contact your doctor. If the wound is getting worse, do not wait days or weeks to seek medical attention.



Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/18...#ixzz2Kt4pLQ9W

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## hunter63

Now that is some good stuff, I had'nt gave much thought too....Thanks for posting.

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## Wildthang

> Now that is some good stuff, I had'nt gave much thought too....Thanks for posting.


Hey Hunter, have you ever heard of barking spiders? I remember when I was a kid, I would hear my dad tell mom about them all of the time. We must have had a lot of them at our house although I never really saw them.........ever!

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## hunter63

Oh yeah, usually come out when a group of guys are hanging around, after a some hard boiled eggs and brewskies, or beans.....

Around here we have the elusive African barking spiders, very rare, and mostly only heard, not seen....although I hear that to see one is not a pretty sight.

Kinda falls into the old "Pull my finger"....line of activities.....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...rking%20spider

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## Winter

Randy, the picture was just to show that the venom(poison) is present in all spiders. It's not their saliva.

I'll do a few pushups for causing the confusion.

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## Wildthang

Someone told me one time that the dady long legs spider is the most poisenous spider on earth, but it's mouth is so small it can't bite humans...................is that true?

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## RandyRhoads

> Randy, the picture was just to show that the venom(poison) is present in all spiders. It's not their saliva.
> 
> I'll do a few pushups for causing the confusion.


It makes no difference for the purpose of this thread but following the evolutionary ladder it is nothing more than MODIFIED saliva. Semantics, technicalities and such.

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## Rick

If you ever do see a barking spider you can consider the barker disqualified from the barking event. I think someone posted a caution on here a few days ago that went soemthing like, "Never trust a barking spider".

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## japs8944

So last september I got a brown reccluse bite, after two weeks, I know way two long, I finally decided to go to the hospital and they perscribed me to antbiotics, I was on them for a little bit and It made many of the problems go away, however the medication was making me so sick I stopped taking it. Now in february the back spot is still there, and occasionally it hurts. 

Do you guys know anything that I can do to make this go away?

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## crashdive123

> So last september I got a brown reccluse bite, after two weeks, I know way two long, I finally decided to go to the hospital and they perscribed me to antbiotics, I was on them for a little bit and It made many of the problems go away, however the medication was making me so sick I stopped taking it. Now in february the back spot is still there, and occasionally it hurts. 
> 
> Do you guys know anything that I can do to make this go away?


If you do not seek medical attention....and if it is really a bite from a brown recluse.....Read where it says effects of bite  http://www.brown-recluse.com/bitephotos.html

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## Wildthang

> So last september I got a brown reccluse bite, after two weeks, I know way two long, I finally decided to go to the hospital and they perscribed me to antbiotics, I was on them for a little bit and It made many of the problems go away, however the medication was making me so sick I stopped taking it. Now in february the back spot is still there, and occasionally it hurts. 
> 
> Do you guys know anything that I can do to make this go away?


Although this is not an accepted medical practice, I have heard that cordisone ( dexamethasone ) injections around the bite site works wonders. You may have a tough time finding a doctor to do this but a lot of farm vets do this and it normally works well leading to much reduced rotting and swelling. Normally the symptoms just go away very quickly!

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## japs8944

Well the bite was treated, and the rotting and swelling went away, I just still have a black spot there that I kinda want to go away.

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## SRH

Thanks for posting that site. crashdive123 great stuff

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## birdman6660

iM FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT AFTER VIEWING THE SPIDER BITES iM NOT WANTING TO COME VISIT YOU GUYS ANY TIME SOON  !!! lol  ! ! ! !

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## akkayla

agree lol  :Thumbup:

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## randyt

When I lived in kentucky I would get a bite once in awhile, not sure what it was from. It was the size of a quarter and would harden over. My friends would get the same bite but theirs would have a small blister in the center. Not sure but it may have been a wolf spider.

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## crashdive123

> iM FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT AFTER VIEWING THE SPIDER BITES iM NOT WANTING TO COME VISIT YOU GUYS ANY TIME SOON  !!! lol  ! ! ! !


http://www.ontarioinsects.org/TMason/frame.htm    Just sayin.

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## Wildthang

Rick and Hunter are our resident experts on barking spiders, so any further questions about those will be deferred to them :Smartass:

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## kyratshooter

Anyone remember the screaming Camel Spider scare when the troops first invaded Iraq?

spiders ths size of a car tire the ran on their two back legs screaming as they swept across the sand!

Able to bite you painlessly and suck out all your body fluids while you slept.

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## hunter63

> Rick and Hunter are our resident experts on barking spiders, so any further questions about those will be deferred to them


Would that be the infamous African barking spiders you speak of?

They are known to inhabit the trees around the perimeter of a camp fire, waiting for the unsuspecting after supper that included beans, chili w/beans or potato salad w/eggs.....and beer.

Can be very dangerous......

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## welderguy

> Anyone remember the screaming Camel Spider scare when the troops first invaded Iraq?
> 
> spiders ths size of a car tire the ran on their two back legs screaming as they swept across the sand!
> 
> Able to bite you painlessly and suck out all your body fluids while you slept.


I remember that, and I remember seeing the pictures that were posted about them too.

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## hunter63

> I remember that, and I remember seeing the pictures that were posted about them too.


Here ya go....


http://www.burkemuseum.org/spidermyt...elspider2.html

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## welderguy

> Here ya go....
> 
> 
> http://www.burkemuseum.org/spidermyt...elspider2.html


LOL yep !!

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## crashdive123

> Would that be the infamous African barking spiders you speak of?
> 
> They are known to inhabit the trees around the perimeter of a camp fire, waiting for the unsuspecting after supper that included beans, chili w/beans or potato salad w/eggs.....and beer.
> 
> Can be very dangerous......


I think he was referring to the space alien barking spiders that originated from Uranus.

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## randyt

Just to think all this time I thought Hunter and Rick was stepping on ducks and frogs. Now I find out it's just mere barking spiders.

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## Enigma

I heard Barking spiders inhabit the same areas as Drop bears down this way?

You guys are very lucky only having the Black Widow. The last course we were on out bush, I had a male funnel web spider stop about 30cm from my foot late at night.(I 'd taken my boots of and was bare foot). Lucky I spotted him. The bastards are everywhere up and down the East Coast. AND we have tree funnel webs too!

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## Enigma

additional info for visitors to Aus.



Hexathelidae: Dangerous Australian funnel spiders
Hexathelid spiders live in Australia, and their funnel webs are really burrows lined with silk. These spiders have a dangerous bite. Two well-known species of Hexathelidae are the Sydney funnel spider and the northern tree funnel spider. Both are often included on lists of the most deadly spiders in the world, according to the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO).

 This group contains some spiders of medical significance in their native Australia, Bills said.While most species are not dangerous to humans, the Sydney funnel spider and the tree-dwelling venomous biters have garnered deadly reputations.

Appearance

According to the World Heritage Encyclopedia, these funnel spiders are medium-sized, getting up to about 1 to 2 inches (2.54 to 5 centimeters), and are typically black or brown. Bills noted that they are mygalomorphs, which means they have distinct fangs and ... long spinnerets. They are distinguished by their shiny carapace (hard covering over the front of the body), which is lightly haired. Males are smaller than females.

Behavior

According to Bills, these spiders typically live in burrows. These mostly nocturnal spiders can be found at any time of the year. They prefer humid climates, as they are susceptible to drying out, according to the Australian Museum.

During the summer, males leave their burrows and go wandering for females. The two spiders spar until the female accepts the male. To mate, they rear up on their hind legs and press their bodies together, according to the Australian Museum. They also assume this rearing position when threatened.

According to the Queensland Museum, the female spider lays her eggs in her burrow. Once they hatch, the young spiders stay in the burrow until they are big enough to leave. Males only live for a few months after mating, but females can live for several years (some reports say up to 20).

Burrowers

Australian funnel spiders pick moist and sheltered places to build their burrows, like under rocks or logs or in shrubbery. According to the Museum Victoria, the entrance to the burrow is surrounded by irregular strands of silk, which act as trip wires, alerting the spider hiding in the burrow that prey is present. The spider then goes out and attacks.

These spiders usually eat insects or small vertebrates like lizards or frogs.

Tree dwellers

While most funnel spiders live on the ground, a few species on the eastern coast of Australia live in wet forest trees. They typically live in rotting holes in the bark and build silk trip wires outside the holes to alert themselves to prey, according to the Australian Museum. The inside of their holes may be lined with silk, and bits of bark are used to disguise the entrance. Their dwellings have been found as much as 30 meters off the ground.

Dangerous species

According to the Australian Museum, bites from all species of Australian funnel-web spiders are considered potentially dangerous, but the two most notorious are the Sydney funnel-web spider and the northern tree-dwelling funnel spider.

The black or brown Sydney funnel-web spiders habitat correlates closely with the greater Sydney area. Male Sydney funnel-webs are exclusively responsible for human deaths from this spider's bite. Their venom is five times as toxic as the females because it contains a special chemical called Robustoxin. Females lack this chemical, explains the Australian Museum. Furthermore, males wander, searching for mates and running a higher risk of encountering humans, while females stay in their burrows.

The northern tree-dwelling funnel spider is also highly dangerous but much more rarely encountered because it lives in a remote mountain area.

Antivenom was discovered in the 1980s, and no one has died of bites from either species since.

Dipluridae: Funnel-web tarantulas
Spiders in the Dipluridae family are commonly known as funnel-web tarantulas. This family belongs to the group of mygalomorphs, a spider group with distinct fangs and they have long spinnerets, Bills said.

Most of these spiders live in the tropics of Central and South America, but they are found worldwide, including Australia, Africa and Central Asia.

Appearance

These spiders are medium to small-size, according to the World Heritage Encyclopedia. Some are as small as 3 mm, while others grow to about 15 mm (about half an inch).

Behavior

Their funnel webs are rather messy and are composed of flattened, often branching tunnels they can use for retreating when danger approaches. Some species prefer to hide their webs under rocks, while others live exclusively under mats of moss, rotting logs and other organic debris, according to the EOL.

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## Batch

Almost all spider bite deaths are the very young, sick and infirm. We run into the webs of seriously large spiders all the time.

I think the most serious problem with spiders is arachnophobia. My brother Gary had a bad case. He had every type of snake and an Asian Water Monitor that was large enough that he gave it its own room in his house. But, even the most harmless of spiders or bugs set him to screaming like a little girl. LOL

Then he bought a chunk of land up in north Florida. He was walking back to his truck with a couple of friends after it became too dark to hunt. He noticed all of these reflections and asked what all of them were. There were thousands of little eyes shining back at him everywhere. "Those are spiders", he was told.

Sometimes the only way to manage your fears is to face them and he had no way to get out of that field except to walk through those spiders. Knowing that it would be impossible to do so without getting several spiders on you in the process. He now has a respect for them. Just not the fear he once had.

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## crashdive123

We have more than just Black Widows for poisonous spiders.  https://sites.google.com/site/venomo...nomous-spiders

And by the way.....we have barking spiders here.....at least that's what my wife calls them. :Whistling:

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## Batch

http://www.livescience.com/37974-he-...der-bites.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97804

http://www.burkemuseum.org/spidermyt...la.html#deadly

A doctor treating an wound and saying it could have been a brown recluse is not a professional diagnosis.

For instance a statement like this,  ""He was working in an old house tearing out the existing walls and ceilings and replacing them. Brown recluse spiders like to live in those old houses," he said.
Nelson said Reese was never tested to determine what type of spider bit him, but medical records show there were definite complications from a spider bite wound on his neck." 

This is typical of a doctor saying it probably is a recluse bite when it is more likely a staph infection.


http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/02/28/florida-man-dies-from-spider-bite/

My daughter just called me and sent a text to me last Monday because she thought my grand-daughter had been bitten by a spider.

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She was checking the mail and there was a wasp nest on the mail box with wasps. But, it took me calling her and telling her it was probably a wasp for her to add that information. But, her fears went to the "deadly spider" before the obvious wasp.

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