# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  What fire making techniques work best for you?

## Billofthenorth

What techniques or methods have proven most successful for you to start a fire in the field...without bringing anything along, in other words just from found natural materials,  that being a worst case scenario.

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## Sourdough

None................

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## hunter63

That's really a good question....making fire with nothing.
I would try my best to never get out into that situation....and if my life depended on it, most likely none....so I would not make it.

The only situation I could think where I would have not something with me...or find materials in others garbage.... maybe a plane crash, most fire making gear not allowed on board....and IF I was ambulatory enough, try to salvage burning wreckage?

That's why we practice friction fire making,...bow drills, hand drills, flint steel (still need the steel) or at least be able to find pyrite (striking two pieces do create a spark, not a real good one), but not found in my area.
Lens fire with glasses, polished ice lens.....

I have dug up a rock that sparked on my knife and started the camps fire with it (flint).

So what's yours and how successful have you been?

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## crashdive123

What have you found that works best for you Billofthenorth?

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## Rick

Chiles the night before. 'Cause I swear, the next day it feels just like......oh, butterflies.

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## greatgoogamooga

None, so far.  That's why I carry a zippo.  And no,  I don't smoke.

Goog

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## Stairman

Even a bowdrill needs a shoelace and knife to construct but I find that to be the easiest primitive method.

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## Billofthenorth

None here either, that's why I asked. I usually practice with some kind of flint and steel when I can but the thought is always there that any article brought along is a bit of a cheat.Though I guess unless you're naked you would have something  like shoe laces or clothing to make cordage out of etc.

I've always wondered if that thing about shaping ice with your hand into a lens really works or if anyone has made a pump drill, if they work seems like those two methods could be done without a bring along.

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## randyt

A hand drill will work with found materials and perhaps a fire plough.

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## Sarge47

> ...but the thought is always there that any article brought along is a bit of a cheat....


A cheat?  Really?  Who made that up?  It's survival so whatever gets the job done.  There's no "referee" out there scoring points..... :Detective:  

BTW, I usually just rub two Boy Scouts together! (Gidney and Floyd; the two moon men from the Rocky and Bullwinkle carton series.)... :W00t:

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## Billofthenorth

> A cheat?  Really?  Who made that up? :


I just meant in a training / preparation sense, obviously in an actual situation you use whatever is at hand but when I'm learning something I don't assume that I'll always have a book of strike anywhere matches and 5 gallons of gas so I can loaf on learning all the other fire starting skills.

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## hunter63

Seems y'all got an all or nothing mind set...."If you can't make fire with nothing, you ain't squat"...or are lazy.

Might work for those that go and "practice survival"....bragging rights and all........

Fact is "It don't work that way".........You can practice your skills, fire, shelter, water, orientation, foraging....but the fact is you ain't surviving....That's playing.

If you are surviving, cold, wet, hungry, lost,  injured....you would kill for that match, or what ever other method works now so I don't die.

Nothing wrong with learning and practicing new ways.....so your question was a good one, I think about that often, but......I haven't found any easy way that is effective all the time, anywhere, in any conditions, with found materials.......a survivor will have had the best options available, JUST IN CASE.

Have a nice day.

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## Sarge47

> I just meant in a training / preparation sense, obviously in an actual situation you use whatever is at hand but when I'm learning something I don't assume that I'll always have a book of strike anywhere matches and 5 gallons of gas so I can loaf on learning all the other fire starting skills.


Nothing wrong with learning the skills you list, I just don't consider it cheating to carry a lighter and some Strike-Anywhere matches on my person...better yet, lifeboat matches.  Remember, in any survival situation you need to conserve energy...how much energy would you spend on those primitive skills?  You should also practice starting a fire with wet materials.  Remember, even Cody Lundin failed on one of the episodes of Dual Survival with his primitive skills because the materials he was using were too wet.  And "5 gallons of gas?"  Who the he11 carries that?  . :W00t:    Myself I carry both strike-anywhere & lifeboat matches, lighter, and a Doans Magnesium block along with some homemade fire-starters.  The whole set-up fits inside a small waterproof pouch.  If I need to use primitive skills I'll call Tonto!  Right now though I couldn't start a fire anywhere outside as we've been hit by a whole bunch of rain storms and we have flood warnings all over the State!  I might be thinking of making a raft or a canoe if this gets much worse..... :W00t:

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## Batch

> What techniques or methods have proven most successful for you to start a fire in the field...without bringing anything along, in other words just from found natural materials,  that being a worst case scenario.


It seems sometimes that there is a bit of animosity towards people asking questions about skills that can be difficult to acquire.

Billofthenorth simply asked what technique worked best to start a fire with nothing and acknowledged that this would be a "worst case scenario".

That being said if you can build a friction fire, even if everything you carried failed or was taken from you, you can still achieve your goal of fire.

So, having this skill will have you making careful preps so that the hard one coal is not squandered. That is another big advantage to practicing these skills at there most basic levels. 

I practice primitive fire and carry many fire starting aids. I started the campfire Saturday night using dead grass and live oak twigs with some cabbage palm fronds and jack boots. Then we used live oak. We cooked all of our food on that one fire this weekend without needing a lighter of matches at all. Chicken, steak, sausage, hotdogs and hamburgers, bacon, eggs, corn, beans, poke salet, mixed vegetables, grilled peppers. All with a single flick of my bic.

Nothing unusual there. Knowing how to build a fire, restart a fire, what wood is good to cook over are all simple skills. I have seen a bunch of people that don't properly prepare for fire or have any idea what kind of wood they have and if it is good for cooking with. That fire was permanently extinguished today after lunch.

Do we tell people studying wild edibles that they need to keep a pack of granola in their pack and forget learning wild edibles?

To the OP, I have had good success with willow spindle and willow hearth board. I also used willow for the bow. I used a shot glass for a bearing block. I tried using shells and the shot glass was just that much more comfortable. I am going to carve a bearing block out of Live Oak or West Indian Mahogany, both of which a locally very abundant and I think might work good. I have tried Cabbage Palm on Cabbage Palm with lots of smoke. But, I burn through the frond before I get a coal. I will keep trying. LOL

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## crashdive123

Billofthenorth - now that I know better what you are asking.....

Personally I have not been successful.  Admittedly, I haven't put a lot of effort into it.  There are a few guys that make it look easy.  Here's one - he's posted a few times on this forum.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2Yp...j8ZQg&index=14

Here's another that I learned from  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmipIIBpzMk

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## Ken

I only carry one tiny fire-starting tool with me.  :Innocent: 

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## letslearntogether47

The hardest thing to find in the wild is cordage.
And I'm thinking that anything I make would not hold up to a bow drill. 
What has worked for me is Egyptian wrap on the spindle with a shoe lace.
I find a lace will work longer with more wraps on the spindle.

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## GreatUsername

> The hardest thing to find in the wild is cordage.
> And I'm thinking that anything I make would not hold up to a bow drill. 
> What has worked for me is Egyptian wrap on the spindle with a shoe lace.
> I find a lace will work longer with more wraps on the spindle.


Good bootlaces seem to be the best if you don't have cordage with you, but I'd say it's worth practicing cordage-work and sourcing things from nature. You'd be surprised how well western red cedar works, for example, or if you aren't from the pacific northwest, I've heard that yucca, any variety of palm, cattails, or other such long-fibered plants will work pretty well. For practice with the basic technique, I suggest shredding some natural-fiber rope to the barest fibers, and try twisting them together by hand. You'd be surprised how quickly you can make a strong, robust, seemingly machine-made rope after just a few hours of messing around. Just be sure to use counter-twisted strands and bundles for it to stay strong. 

Regardless, bow-drills, while good to know and the best option if you have nothing else, are still a PITA without good cordage, so always have laced shoes or some cordage everywhere you go, and to be perfectly honest, if you don't have a lighter, ferrocerium rod, or matches with you at all times, you're going to have a hard time...

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## Batch

We wear leather boots in cowboy style ranchers because they are water proof and snake proof. But, we also wear pull on rubber pull on muck boots. Slipping a small hank of cordage in you pocket or pack is nothing and it leaves you boot lace alone. Course if you planned laced boots for a friction fire then you could have carried a hank of cord. If you carried a hank of cord then you could of carried a lighter. If you had a lighter you could also carry a fire starter like PJ balls. If you carry all that why leave the house with central heat.

Take it down to the worse case scenario and you own the whole enchilada.

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## hunter63

> We wear leather boots in cowboy style ranchers because they are water proof and snake proof. But, we also wear pull on rubber pull on muck boots. Slipping a small hank of cordage in you pocket or pack is nothing and it leaves you boot lace alone. Course if you planned laced boots for a friction fire then you could have carried a hank of cord. If you carried a hank of cord then you could of carried a lighter. If you had a lighter you could also carry a fire starter like PJ balls. If you carry all that why leave the house with central heat.
> 
> Take it down to the worse case scenario and you own the whole enchilada.



....Then add to you statement."Take it down to the worse case scenario and you own the whole enchilada".......under any conditions.
The ultimate goal.

I used to worry about this....but after watching Cody Lundin (fire master) fail a couple of times....cordage broke, too wet.....I just not gonna worry about it.
Bic's are 4 for a buck at the dollar store.

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## Billofthenorth

> It seems sometimes that there is a bit of animosity towards people asking questions about skills that can be difficult to acquire.
> 
> Billofthenorth simply asked what technique worked best to start a fire with nothing and acknowledged that this would be a "worst case scenario".
> 
> That being said if you can build a friction fire, even if everything you carried failed or was taken from you, you can still achieve your goal of fire.
> 
> So, having this skill will have you making careful preps so that the hard one coal is not squandered. That is another big advantage to practicing these skills at there most basic levels. 
> 
> I practice primitive fire and carry many fire starting aids. I started the campfire Saturday night using dead grass and live oak twigs with some cabbage palm fronds and jack boots. Then we used live oak. We cooked all of our food on that one fire this weekend without needing a lighter of matches at all. Chicken, steak, sausage, hotdogs and hamburgers, bacon, eggs, corn, beans, poke salet, mixed vegetables, grilled peppers. All with a single flick of my bic.
> ...



Thanks for your answer, you get what I meant.

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## Old GI

My personal favorite is "Honey, get the fire started".  Hey, I'm the man of my hou....... ouch, oh no!

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## Mike D'Antonio

Hello Bill,
  Simply put...I NEVER - EVER go into the hills without at least my EDC. This always includes my BK-2, BK-11, Firesteel, and Cottonball Tinder (which there are multitudes of "natural" options in Western NY), ZIPPO, Leatherman, and canteen / water. I've tried the Bow Drill route and it simply does not make sense to use all that energy when a simple EDC works. TV has everyone hiped up on surviving without anything to work with. I'm old...If I had my way I'd carry an RV on my back Ha Ha! In all seriousness Bill...set yourself up with a nice little EDC and carry it with you...E very D ay C arry. Probably isn't what you want to hear but it would be my advice to you. Take care, Mike

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## Billofthenorth

> Hello Bill,
>   Simply put...I NEVER - EVER go into the hills without at least my EDC. This always includes my BK-2, BK-11, Firesteel, and Cottonball Tinder (which there are multitudes of "natural" options in Western NY), ZIPPO, Leatherman, and canteen / water. I've tried the Bow Drill route and it simply does not make sense to use all that energy when a simple EDC works. TV has everyone hiped up on surviving without anything to work with. I'm old...If I had my way I'd carry an RV on my back Ha Ha! In all seriousness Bill...set yourself up with a nice little EDC and carry it with you...E very D ay C arry. Probably isn't what you want to hear but it would be my advice to you. Take care, Mike


I have several similar set ups for my vehicles or when I'm hiking but things happen to seperate one from their stuff, whats in the brain can't be taken.

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## JTD

I've made a quite a few friction fires and more than a few spark fires... Honestly I don't think I could trust my life to anything less than a sparking device, and natural fatwood to get fire started.

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## Mike D'Antonio

Hello Bill,
  Other than someone killing me and taking my EDC, I can't see how I would ever "accidently lose it". My basic EDC consists of a double Mag Pouch on my right side pants belt with a Leatherman Supertool, Zippo, Mag Bar, 1/2"X3 1/2" Firesteel w/ hacksaw blade striker, fishing gear wrapped in a small seine net. On my left pants belt is an LED Minimag light. Around my neck is my KaBar BK-11, small Sunto Compass, small Firesteel w/ hacksaw blade striker, and 25 foot of 550 cord. I'm 60 years old and have carried this (or very similar EDC's) for well over 35 years. I'm not paranoid but I do spend huge amounts of time in the hills and my gear is simply a part of my lifestyle. You mention that you have several of these in your vehicle. As a Search and Rescue Crew Boss, I teach newbies that an EDC is always carried on ones body and anything carried in a vehicle or cached anywhere else is considered a "Go Kit". The only time I temporarily leave mine in my Jeep is when I need to enter a Government Facility that prohibits me from carry. (Stupid laws enacted due to terrible actions of stupid people) Bill, I certainly do not want you to feel I'm being argumentative with you in my posts! I simply want to stress the absolute importance of pro-active planning whenever we are in the Wilderness (or during any weather / manmade situation that might require "alternative preparedness" actions. I am very glad to see your interest in "Survival" and applaud you for it. More people should think like that. Once you reach a certain level of preparedness and experience you will forget the word survival and simply consider it another way of life. Keep up the great work and I hope to chat with you often! Mike

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## hunter63

Just a little pouch I carry every day......
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It's good to know as many ways to make fire, practice when you can....but I generally don't go out expecting to survive....I'm doing something else, but want to cover my bases when I can.

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## mistersir

the methode that works for me is coating a cotton ball in patrolium jelly

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## cpttuna

I used to carry my Firesteel on my keychain. After watching an episode of survival Alaska where the guy's kayak overturns on the river and he loses all his gear, my thoughts changed. I wear my firesteel around my neck. whatever may happen to me, I believe the firesteel  will stay around my neck(as opposed to falling out of a pants or jacket pocket).

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## welderguy

> I used to carry my Firesteel on my keychain. After watching an episode of survival Alaska where the guy's kayak overturns on the river and he loses all his gear, my thoughts changed. I wear my firesteel around my neck. whatever may happen to me, I believe the firesteel  will stay around my neck(as opposed to falling out of a pants or jacket pocket).


 Hi, cpttuna. how about heading here... http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions.. and say howdy

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## intothenew

> ....................(as opposed to falling out of a pants or jacket pocket).


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## crashdive123

or.............

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## garden-ed

Battery and steel wool..

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## Batch

Fire.

I have seen many proclaimed outdoorsmen fail to keep a fire lit with store bought wood and lighter fluid.

The disposable lighter is a 1970's product.

The lighter is a 20th century invention.

The mish metal, ferrocium rod it was patented in 1903.

Matches of one sort or another have been around for centuries. But, they were unreliable and dangerous. They either wouldn't light or they would light in your pocket.

A person who learns to make a friction fire can start a fire with any of the other methods and I don't know any who don't carry multiple fire making methods with them. They just completely own the fire building skill.

Kinda like when we learn to make an atlatl, we don't stop carrying a gun. We just have a clearer understanding of the process of flying projectiles... LOL

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## Hamish

which techniques do you suggest at different climates.  Please suggest what tools.

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## welderguy

> which techniques do you suggest at different climates.  Please suggest what tools.


 I suggest this.....http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions

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## canid

I have by far the best results with a fire-bow, if we're to exclude gasoline, a bic and [insert any tinder in any moisture-condition here].

I still habitually leave most of my knives full hard at the spine for a steel though.

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## Batch

> I have by far the best results with a fire-bow, if we're to exclude gasoline, a bic and [insert any tinder in any moisture-condition here].
> 
> I still habitually leave most of my knives full hard at the spine for a steel though.


Somehow, we get a bunch of folks from everywhere else that proclaim themselves country boys and proclaim us city folks because we are from South Florida. 

A lot of these self described country boys use an accelerant and junk wood to try and start a fire and fail. LOL

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## crashdive123

> Somehow, we get a bunch of folks from everywhere else that proclaim themselves country boys and proclaim us city folks because we are from South Florida. 
> 
> A lot of these self described country boys use an accelerant and junk wood to try and start a fire and fail. LOL


Everybody knows that South Florida is all like South Beach in Miami......well......and about a million and a half acres of Everglades.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everglades

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## Wingman

I need more dirt time with the bow drill I think I would have a cold night trying to light a fire like that.

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## Batch

> Everybody knows that South Florida is all like South Beach in Miami......well......and about a million and a half acres of Everglades.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everglades


I was going to reply to this with a list of the different areas that make up the actual wilderness area of South Florida. Got the list almost done and I opened a pdf and the computer restarted!

The 1.5 million acres is only the park. I would say at least 3 million acres in South Florida. Maybe more. 

I'll do a separate thread later on that with a list of each place and its location on a map.

you would be amazed at what people who live here don't know about one of the biggest wildernesses in the country and what is arguable the last real frontier in the country (not my words).

As you know Crash, Florida has some pretty great woods.

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## crashdive123

Yep.  At times I do long for cooler temps and mountains, but they'll do.

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## DomC

> None................


Ditto

DomC  :Smile:   :Wink:

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## killlshot234

I'm practicing the bow drill method, just cuz it's fun to learn :Smartass: . but if it comes down to a real situation, i will most likely be prepared, i always have a mini survivor kit somewhere in my pack just in case things go bad

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## CloudDancer

Well....we have stored a couple of "glass" magnifying glasses for that just in case of......but they have be glass ones. Got ours on E-bay as all the stores, even the optical stores were all selling plastic

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## crashdive123

Plastic lenses will work.  You have to be careful to keep it from scratching.

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## CloudDancer

I'd still go with E-Bay...cause the plastic ones are like $14 for one....I got three glass ones for $12 on E-Bay....but i guess you could get plastic ones at like, Dollar tree?

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## crashdive123

It all depends on what works for you.  I use something like these in my work, and they work well for a fire starter too.

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## Nighthawk01

Well said Batch , and a very good question that maybe didn't get the replies you expected Bill.

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## Rick

> they work well for a fire starter too.




He uses them on ants mostly. He has this thing about insects for some reason.

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## NAC82XX

I'm guessing there is wood , I'll bet there are a few stones. Chip the stones to make an edge, carve the wood to make a bowdrill.  Spin the stick to make friction. Friction makes fire with a lot of practice. But if you have nothing else to do, practice till you make it work. Fire makes clean water etc etc. no fire? 1000000 BC. We have to be beter than that. JMHO.

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## zeroed4x

> Somehow, we get a bunch of folks from everywhere else that proclaim themselves country boys and proclaim us city folks because we are from South Florida. 
> 
> A lot of these self described country boys use an accelerant and junk wood to try and start a fire and fail. LOL


Lol, yep. There are many who would curl up and twitch when working with the mostly damp or totally wet wood and materials we work with down here. Even the dead trees are wet most of the time. If they've never been in a swamp or a subtropical woodland they simply don't know. As far as extreme/tough wilderness, we own most of it down here. We've got more black water, more snakes, more bugs and other critters that will eat ya.

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## your_comforting_company

> Nothing wrong with learning and practicing new ways.....so your question was a good one, I think about that often, but......I haven't found any easy way that is effective all the time, anywhere, in any conditions, with found materials.......a survivor will have had the best options available, JUST IN CASE.




When all you have is your brain, you better know a LOT about fire.
A bic and fatlighter in a watertight container. fatlighter will get even wet kindling to burn.

edited to add: the whole idea is preparedness, is it not?

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## Batch

> When all you have is your brain, you better know a LOT about fire.
> A bic and fatlighter in a watertight container. fatlighter will get even wet kindling to burn.
> 
> edited to add: the whole idea is preparedness, is it not?


I pull lighter knot aka fat lighter out of the mud all the time. It can be under water and it will burn. You need a way to split it and fine shave it to start it with out a viable fire. Down here it looks like drift wood or rotted wood and you can kick it to tell. Too dense to get water logged.

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## your_comforting_company

The container is more for the Bic than the fatlighterd. We find it all over the place here, too, and have used it wet, along with primitive techniques in DRY conditions to produce fire. After two days of rain, I doubt you'd find a dry weed anywhere to START that fire with, so you butter have something or it's going to be a long, long day.

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## Batch

Yeah, I agree. I never have less than two lighters (a full size Bic in my pocket and a Bic mini in my Leatherman case) I also have a PJ cottonball in foil in the leatherman case and a ferro rod in my wallet. Each pack has a fire kit as well.

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## Tony uk

Its very much dependent on the environment and time of year. In this country during winter for example (Rain!) I've had the best luck with a piece of flint (Plenty of that here) and something used as a striker, which doesn't necessarily need to be a piece of steel. After that its just a matter of finding dry tinder.

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## crashdive123

Tony - been a long time.  Glad to see you back.

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## Rick

Welcome back my friend.

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## postman

I always have a Swiss army knife and a torch style lighter in my pocket. When I go into the woods I always have my fire kit, psk and knife on my belt. I do practice friction fire and find the bow drill method works best for me. I find willow on willow to be the most consistent combination. Where willow is unavailable I've also had success with balsam fir, cedar, and poplar. The spinde and hearthboard always being the same material. I've tried the hand drill and fire plow and had no success with either. 
 In my fire kit I carry paracord and a bone handhold for the spindle. Now I only practice this skill because I enjoy doing it, and get a great sense of satisfaction from it. Would I want to rely on it to save my life? NO WAY! That's why I carry a complete kit and more than one lighter, even with all I have in my kit, starting a fire in wet conditions can still be a challenge. Practice primitive skills, but carry the proper kit so you don't have to rely on them in an emergency.
 Here is a picture of my fire kit: It contains flint and steel, char cloth, char tin, 0000 steel wool, ferro rod, lighter with duct tape, cotton balls and pads saturated in vaseline, an esbit fuel tab, fat wood, jute twine, a wax/ wood shaving fire roll, para cord and bone hand hold. The ferro rod with the vaseline soaked cotton pads is my go to method for the majority of my fires. The one in the kit is a spare, the one I always use I carry on my knife sheath.

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## Winterhorse

I'm pretty good with a bow drill and have had success with cordage made of dogbane and milkweed but it's used up by the time I get an ember. Now mind you, I'm not likely to succeed under conditions that are much less than optimal but I can walk into my neck of the woods in dry conditions without a knife and usually get a fire going.  Willow bark makes some good cordage too.  I've tried cat tail but it's unusable for a bow string in my opinion. You need to know your area and really take stock of your material and take your time in making your gear to get an ember going.

Have I addressed your question?

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## Tokwan

On my side of the planet, bow drills and other primitive fire making tools will take a long time to make a fire ..simply due to the damp conditions. Wood is always damp or simply wet. So a survival kit with reliable fire making tools is very essential, which without...could mean disaster, especially if you are really tired/sick or injured. 
Anyway, you can still make fire with bow/hand drills or rubbing bamboo over the other...and I can guarantee..it will take a while to get the fire starting. 
The best thing would be to get a small shelter so that when you are attempting to make fire, the rain does not foil your attempts. It rains without warning here.
I smoke..so I eitehr carry a Zippo or a IMCO lighter which I use alternatively. Reason is they have covers that helps to prevent or reduce the possibility the lighter getting wet.

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## phreshayr

For me here in Southcentral Alaska, I have found the Eskimo Strap Drill the easiest friction fire method to use with natural cordage.    This is the authentic strap drill method performed while sitting on a log or rock.   We use willow bark straight off the tree, bark and all, as is, or black spruce root as is.   Both work fine.   The spruce root can get quite a few embers in a row one after the other while the root is still fresh.    I am very confident with friction fire techniques and also confident with found quartz rocks struck against my carbon steel knife and catching sparks in Chaga.   I have also lit fires using rock against rock catching sparks in Chaga.  But never the less, I still carry a zippo with bicycle inner tube seal, a BIC type lighter, strike anywhere matches as well as a ferro rod on my person when I am in the woods which is almost daily.   I just plain love messing with fire no matter how it is done.

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## Tokwan

I was practicing after lunch today..with the bamboo friction method...took me about 45 minutes...sore arms now.

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## MrFixIt

I've only tried the bow drill routine twice, and was successful once.
I've never had a problem getting a fire going with a mag bar.
I smoke so I carry a couple lighters on my person.

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## Adventure Wolf

Recently I learned how to use a bow and drill. I read about it a lot, but never tried. Ended up succeeding for the first time a couple days ago  :Smile:  I'm looking forward to learning more.

Flint and steel, firestarter, matches, lighter are my go tos. Call me a modernist if you'd like. I successfully used a magnifying glass once on the playground, and got in some trouble...

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## DomC

Seriously, I never leave home without at least a BIC lighter & some kind of knife on my person or in my pocket. If I lost my pants I'd be in trouble lol. I also wear some cordage in the form of a paracord or bankline bracelet. My key chain has a UST SPARKIE and Gerber DIME on it. Just because I recently learned to make fire with a bow drill I would not rely on it. Being able to get a coal in your backyard on a sunny day with a proven bow-drill set does not mean that you would be able to get a fire started in an actual survival situation.

 There are numerous variables that will make getting a coal exponentially more difficult. For instance, you must be able to get a coal with a variety of woods, in a variety of conditions. The wood may be damp, you may not have a knife, you may not have any cordage or you may already be tired. It's for these reasons, it is good to practice dealing with each of these factors, first separately, and then bring them all together. The quest for fire without modern conveniences doesn't stop, it keeps going and now you have more challenges to overcome...just make sure to carry alternative methods of fire starting. For me success with the bow drill made me realize there are better and easier fire making methods and that I can make fire primitively if need be. It's a good skill to achieve, but not always reliable.

If you're not prepared to survive, you're gonna have a hard time imo...

DomC

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## RandyRhoads

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Always lights. Haha

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## Highhawk1948

as a last resort I carry a magnifying glass and hope the sun is out.

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## ninjasurvivor

I'm not good at primitive fire yet, not that I'd be inclined to use it very often even if I was. However, I usually use a really tiny fire steel, like an inch long. and a small amount of cotton I keep with it. I'll start the fire at night with no light in the wind just to challenge myself and keep myself honest. Using supercharged tinder and flames and accelerants makes it way to easy.

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## DomC

> Using supercharged tinder and flames and accelerants makes it way to easy.


 Yeah but when your butt's on the line that's a life saver. Who cares if you use "too easy" methods, making a fire is job 1 and you should guiltlessly use accelerants if you are lucky to have them on your person.

Dom

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## ninjasurvivor

> Yeah but when your butt's on the line that's a life saver. Who cares if you use "too easy" methods, making a fire is job 1 and you should guiltlessly use accelerants if you are lucky to have them on your person.
> 
> Dom


There's a time and place for that, like grilling in the backyard. But if I go out into the bush and am camping or something, I'll resort to slightly more primitive means of fire starting just to hone my skills. 

I had a friend who went camping in a really windy area. All he had on him was a bic. He came back and told me he couldn't get the fire going all three days because the bic blew out and when he got the tinder lit, it also blew out. The extent of his fire knowledge was "Flick the bic and the fire goes".

Unfortunately fire is a bit more finicky than that. If you don't have the experience or skills required to master it in any environment, all you'll ever be is a bic flicker.  The solution to my friends dilemma was to create a wind shield and/or use a fire steel instead of a bic. But his fire skills were limited, and so he just assumed fire making was impossible under those conditions.

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## DomC

[QUOTE=ninjasurvivor;435900]I'll resort to slightly more primitive means of fire starting just to hone my skills. QUOTE]

Please elaborate...BTW the OP's question is "What techniques or methods have proven most successful for you to start a fire in the field...without bringing anything along, in other words just from found natural materials, that being a worst case scenario." 

DomC

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## ninjasurvivor

[QUOTE=DomC;435901]


> I'll resort to slightly more primitive means of fire starting just to hone my skills. QUOTE]
> 
> Please elaborate...BTW the OP's question is "What techniques or methods have proven most successful for you to start a fire in the field...without bringing anything along, in other words just from found natural materials, that being a worst case scenario." 
> 
> DomC


I'm talking about using small fire steels and natural tinder.

I'm not really sure what range of methods the OP would expect for people to have used when it comes to making fire without bringing anything along. I mean your choices are fire drills and.....maybe, flint and rock? GOOD LUCK finding flint or rocks for making fire when you need it.  I'm not sure how many people are using hand drills or plow drills, so that pretty much leaves the whole discussion to bowdrills. 

When it comes to bowdrills they take time to make. You need the right woods and the right environmental conditions. I wouldn't expect many people at all to have been successful with bowdrills outside of a controlled environment. I've seen experts failing to get bowdrill fires going when it really counts. I'd be intrigued to read any real life accounts of folks making primitive fires off the cuff in a real world situation in the wilderness.

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## DomC

I agree with you wholeheartedly...my original answer was an honest "none" btw. If you brought nothing with you that would mean you would have no shoelaces for cordage to use a bow drill, you'd have to rely on making cordage and having no knife you'd have to rely on sharp rocks or shards of glass to fashion a BD set. Hand drill only requires two components: spindle and heathboard but you risk blistering your hands if you have not conditioned them beforehand. 

Better to be prepared to survive...I don't classify firesteels as being primitive though...flint & steel yes. bow drill, hand drill, fire plow, yes...

Dom

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## ninjasurvivor

> Better to be prepared to survive...I don't classify firesteels as being primitive though...flint & steel yes. bow drill, hand drill, fire plow, yes...
> 
> Dom


I mainly meant using natural tinder as being primitive. The fire steel principle is the same as flint and rocks because its creating fire from spark instead of flame. But obviously you are still talking about using a man made implement and not a found object in nature, so I acknowledge there is a big difference there.

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## DomC

Yes you are right... the flint (ferrocerium)  in a zippo or butane lighter is of recent invention. I consider primitive as pre 1700s and before.

DomC

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## hunter63

Ferro rod and steel is basically a Bic with out butane........so not primitive at all.
Ferro rods are manufactured, as is steel......but steel and flint, real flint, as in rocks, has been around for quite awhile.

Most primitive cultures use a version or friction fire making, bow drill, hand drill, fire plow.......the basic "rubbing two sticks together".

As I do agree that practice at primitive making fire, with found materials leaves out most any type manufactured material....I still think that it is mostly a novelty, ...good to know, but maybe not real practical in general use.

Seems it as snob thing..........

I head out into to the wild to hunt, fish, hike to gather plants, nuts, mushrooms deer sheds, rocks....or to look over the woods for several reasons...or just to cover ground.

Fire making is a tool, not an end................Do what y'all want.

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## ninjasurvivor

> Ferro rod and steel is basically a Bic with out butane........so not primitive at all.


I respectfully disagree. While I admit it's not primitive in the sense that it is a natural material, there is a BIG difference in sure spark vs. sure flame. A fero rod is like a bic with no fluid. Sparks a lot but doesn't create a flame. Most people would be screwed with an empty bic, because they don't know how to harness sparks into flames. That alone is an acquired skill.

I have a video of me using my fero rod to start a fire in the desert using natural tinder. I was on a mountain top with scarce tinder sources. I struck that fero rod a couple hundred times. At one point the tinder actually ignited but quickly went out. I couldn't get it going after that. If I had a lighter I would've lit the tinder or leaves on fire first try without a problem. That's a real life example of how much more challenging, and how similar to "primitive" methods a fero rod can be.

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## hunter63

> Ferro rod and steel is basically a Bic with out butane........so not primitive at all.


A Bic with out butane IS a Bic with out fluid.........all I does is spark....same'o same'o and will spark natural tinder as a ferro rod does....just not intens or as much........more lock a rock and steel.

When something really has to burn.....why bring a ferro rod?, why not a road flare?

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## ninjasurvivor

Um, because a flare is not a multi-use firestarter.

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## DomC

Trollin... Trolling... Trolling... down the river!! I'm Signing Out...

Dom

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## hunter63

> Um, because a flare is not a multi-use firestarter.


Multi use wasn't specified......The plan is to survive till tomorrow....not live out here.
A ferro rod will wear out sooner or later, as well.......
Yeah Dom, getting silly........moving on.

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## Rick

It's okay Hunter. I have five (5) road flares in each of my vehicles. For when you absolutely positively want a fire right now. In my way of thinking I don't give a monkey's left toe nail how you get the fire started. If I'm cold I'm starting a fire however and I'm not beyond using flammable liquids. I'll hold the flare so ya'll can see what your doing rubbing those sticks together in the dark.

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## crashdive123

I can assure you that at the Jamboree's nobody cared how I got the morning fire going as long as the coffee was ready when they got up.

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## hunter63

No ship.....ya got that right.....

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## Lamewolf

> Even a bowdrill needs a shoelace and knife to construct but I find that to be the easiest primitive method.


For the knife you can use a sharp rock, and you can make cordage from natural plant fibers.  But I always say - don't go out unprepared, always make sure you have a butane lighter in your pocket ! (notice I didn't say "BIC" lighter)  :Thumbup1:

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## Lamewolf

> It's okay Hunter. I have five (5) road flares in each of my vehicles. For when you absolutely positively want a fire right now. In my way of thinking I don't give a monkey's left toe nail how you get the fire started. If I'm cold I'm starting a fire however and I'm not beyond using flammable liquids. I'll hold the flare so ya'll can see what your doing rubbing those sticks together in the dark.


Even if stranded in your vehicle with no matches, flare, lighters etc, you have fuel in the form a gasoline and spark from the battery or ignition system !

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## ninjasurvivor

Hey, why not have a flame thrower strapped to your back if you really need fire that bad? A road flare is bigger and heavier than a normal fire making device, and its only one time use. Those are not good criteria for a fire starter imo.

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## hunter63

Yeah, you said that.......road flare, bad........Flame thrower good....Got it......LOL

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## ninjasurvivor

Road flare bad.
Fero rod better.
Flame thrower best.

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## Rick

> Even if stranded in your vehicle with no matches, flare, lighters etc, you have fuel in the form a gasoline and spark from the battery or ignition system !




Have you seen the price of gasoline lately!!!????

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## Lamewolf

> I only carry one tiny fire-starting tool with me. 
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Now I like the way you think ! LOL

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## hunter63

Bet y'all don't have a cool Craftsman Road Flare Pouch........Bhoahahaha

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