# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Making Stuff >  Modern Equipment... Blahhh!!!

## Beo

Now I do use some modern equipment, but as I read different threads it tickles me how some of us hike, track, and camp in the forests and mountains. Foam Mats under their sleeping bags, Sleeping bags, Stoves, Knives, Forks, Spoons, and plates, Portable heaters, axes, backpacks bigger than my army large A.L.I.C.E. pack, lanterns, flashlights, headlamps, and enough other crap to sustain a whole family when its just a weekend or a week. (by knives I do not mean the knives like K-bar etc. I mean a dinner knife)
WTF.... is it just me, or do some of us take half the house into the woods? Now i am not saying you can't or shouldn't... but damn from a stand point of survival or just hiking I think some people take a lot. Although this could be that I try to take as little as possible, keep the weight down, and get what I need from nature.
Hmmm... what ya'll think?
P.S. I know some of us are new, and I don't mean to offend anyone so if I did that was not my intentions, sorry.  :Big Grin:

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## trax

I had to set down the computer and take the kitchen sink I've been packing around off of my back to type this. I think there's a lot to be said for going minimal or close to minimal. As far as the equipment being "modern" though, I'm pretty comfortable with that for the most part, depends on what piece of equipment. Still nothing beats traditional mukluks and snowshoes in teh winter time.

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## trax

But I do like modern firearms, knives axes, tents....toilet paper (siiiigh)

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## MCBushbaby

I'm tempted to buy a ridgerest pad since I do wake up at least 4 times during the night readjusting myself.  Other than that, I agree with you.  Too many people bring their home crap.  I went out on a trip with two high school friends last year and they brought *for a day trip* (and you can't make this stuff up):

12-person tent (mind you, I was in my own tarptent so there was only two people in this monster)
Jumprope and weights (one of my friends couldn't miss his daily workout...)
magazines and books (for when it gets 'boring at dusk')
fold-up 'camp' furniture (x3... they really thought I needed one... I'm happy with a rock or stump)
metal grill (to put over the fire for hotdog grilling)
hotdogs, pop, yogurt, and all other kinds of refrigerated perishables
50gallon cooler to store the aforementioned
INFLATABLE FULL-SIZE MATTRESSES (x2)
ELECTRIC AIR PUMP FOR MATTRESSES
battery powered alarm clock
bag (literally a paper bag from a grocery store) of donuts, danishes, and random stuff (x2, one for each of them)

I am NEVER taking them camping again.  Or if I do, we are not going to car camp so they'll be forced to carry all the crap they want to bring.

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## RobertRogers

> I'm tempted to buy a ridgerest pad since I do wake up at least 4 times during the night readjusting myself.  Other than that, I agree with you.  Too many people bring their home crap.  I went out on a trip with two high school friends last year and they brought (and you can't make this stuff up):
> 
> 12-person tent (mind you, I was in my own tarptent so there was only two people in this monster)
> Jumprope and weights (one of my friends couldn't miss his daily workout...)
> magazines and books (for when it gets 'boring at dusk')
> fold-up 'camp' furniture
> metal grill (to put over the fire for hotdog grilling)
> hotdogs, pop, yogurt, and all other kinds of refrigerated perishables
> 50gallon cooler to store the aforementioned
> ...


*LOL .... "weights"??? 

How about an inflatable doll for those cold nights alone?

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## trax

Yeah, I'd say the weights and jump rope thing might have been a little over the top.

I went for a camping trip with a friend last summer, to a campground, nothing minimalist or survivalist about it, but we were meeting at the campground. She's got two kids, drives a Pontiac minivan and when she arrived there was barely room in the van for her and the kids, literally packed to the ceiling and a roofrack full as well.  I had a tent, sleeping bag, toothbrush, bit of food, fishing gear, knife and splitting axe. I was like "you want me to unload all that stuff don't you?"

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## wareagle69

if he wanted to work out in the bush why not lift logs and rocks?

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## MCBushbaby

> if he wanted to work out in the bush why not lift logs and rocks?


same reason why they brought a cooler and inflatable matresses... city boy *sigh*

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## pilgrim

I'll admit, when i go backpacking I do carry a heavy pack. Id rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.  But the whole point of going out into the wild is getting away from it all and getting back to nature. dont take all the comforts of home.

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## SemperParatus

Guilty as charged. Thanks for the wakeup call.

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## dilligaf2u2

When TDW(The Dear Wife) wants to go camping, we take 2 cars and a trailer. Ya for just the 2 of us. 

When I go out alone: I can either go with my BOB for a total of 10 lbs for a weekend and do the survival thing or I can take the pack and keep it around 60 lbs and call it camping. Depends if I want my coffee and the Zip stove, the tent and tarp or just one of them, or the sleeping pad or make one out of leaves, when out. 

Modern equipment took my pack from too damn heavy to just about able to carry. Plastic is great. My 12X12 drop-cloth has made setting up a shelter very easy. My 9X11 Gortex tarp makes winter camping more enjoyable. The Zip stove or the Coleman Apex II make my morning coffee hot and ready in short order. The Coleman 502 stoves are a main stay for my car camping. 

I can live with just the cloths on my back for some time. Make cutting tools and fire from what I can find. Feed my self(Ok, get nourishment. Is that better?) and in general survive.

Survival is not an option! It is the only option! 

When someone wants to do the hard core survival thing? I say, have a good time. I'll be here waiting, with my coffee and my hot bread, fresh form the oven on my coleman stove. 

When I want to do the survival thing. I go. I do what I want and I loose weight. It is not like I will not have my coffee waiting at home! It is practice and not real. It lets me know what I need to learn and adjust for when there is no home to return too. 

Don

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## dilligaf2u2

Have any of you see this sight 

http://www.barewilderness.com/home.html 

or heard of the 2 guys going out with 2 knives for 30 days? Nothing more. Just them and 2 knives and minimal cloths. 

They gave up after 14 days or something ike that.

Not enough skills. Not enough planing. Not enough common sense. Not enough something. 

It was a good idea! Now they know what to expect and to plane for. A man must know his limitations. I bet if they do this again, they practice some of the skills they would need before going out! 

Don

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## Sarge47

> Have any of you see this sight 
> 
> http://www.barewilderness.com/home.html 
> 
> or heard of the 2 guys going out with 2 knives for 30 days? Nothing more. Just them and 2 knives and minimal cloths. 
> 
> They gave up after 14 days or something ike that.
> 
> Not enough skills. Not enough planing. Not enough common sense. Not enough something. 
> ...


Did we ever!  Check this out and go from there!  

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...read.php?t=877

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## Beo

Couple od doofs if ya ask me, must be form Canada  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

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## trax

> Couple od doofs if ya ask me, must be form Canada


Y'know sometimes I picture beo as that kid you'd see approaching a bee hive with a  long pointed stick and a mischievous grin....

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## sam30248

some of us might take to much equipment just to try it all out , but some have more skills and get to work on them more, some of us are from the city , and dont get to work on their skills as much as us country folk.

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## MedicineWolf

Beowulf you started this light camping way back in... shoot I can't remember its been so long and can't believe you still do it, made me carry light when we'd go camping in the back woods of Tennessee. Ya'll should've seen him when I took him to a Mountain Man Rendezvous... lol... he smiled the whole time we was there.

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## woodwose

> Now I do use some modern equipment, but as I read different threads it tickles me how some of us hike, track, and camp in the forests and mountains. Foam Mats under their sleeping bags, Sleeping bags, Stoves, Knives, Forks, Spoons, and plates, Portable heaters, axes, backpacks bigger than my army large A.L.I.C.E. pack, lanterns, flashlights, headlamps, and enough other crap to sustain a whole family when its just a weekend or a week. (by knives I do not mean the knives like K-bar etc. I mean a dinner knife)
> WTF.... is it just me, or do some of us take half the house into the woods? Now i am not saying you can't or shouldn't... but damn from a stand point of survival or just hiking I think some people take a lot. Although this could be that I try to take as little as possible, keep the wait down, and get what I need from nature.
> Hmmm... what ya'll think?
> P.S. I know some of us are new, and I don't mean to offend anyone so if I did that was not my intentions, sorry.


Well, I personally like a motorhome as big as a bus with a tow package so I can insite roadrage among all the truckers out there.  :Big Grin:  Afterall, what good is getting away from it all if you can't take it all with you? If I didn't take it all with me, I wouldn't have anything to do out there in the woods (exept survive), how boring...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## FVR

Ya'll can keep those alice packs and rucksacks.  I did not like them when I had to carry them, always pref. the as spacks.  I try to go as light as possible, depending on the weather.  There has been a time or two that I packed an extra whitney.  The warmth made the extra bulk and weight worth it.

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## Smok

> Yeah, I'd say the weights and jump rope thing might have been a little over the top.
> 
> I went for a camping trip with a friend last summer, to a campground, nothing minimalist or survivalist about it, but we were meeting at the campground. She's got two kids, drives a Pontiac minivan and when she arrived there was barely room in the van for her and the kids, literally packed to the ceiling and a roofrack full as well.  I had a tent, sleeping bag, toothbrush, bit of food, fishing gear, knife and splitting axe. I was like "you want me to unload all that stuff don't you?"


LOL I have been there lol  earth man

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## Smok

Woodwose that is a great  avatar what is it , looks like a demand that I should know from legend????

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## Nativedude

For most people, the more they carry the safer they feel. Bringing everything and the kitchen sink puts them in their comfort zone. It gives them a false sense of security. Look at what most people carry with them on a daily basis, living in the city! Backpacks, shoulder (messenger) bags, purses, etc. Most of them are filled with items that are not necessities, but they carry them for the "comfort" factor.  :Frown: 

I have seen people, in the woods, with 6,000 cu. in. 80# packs stuffed so full that the seams are stressing and the straps will barely hold. I have seen; battery powered-electric socks, 15 changes of clothing (yes there have been that many,) 4-pack of quilted N****ern toilet paper, shampoo, conditioner, soap, deodorant, 12 pair of "cotton" socks, entire kitchen cutlery sets, corelle dishes (to eat off of,) a monopoly game, women with make-up cases and battery powdered hair dryers & curling irons!  :EEK!:   :Confused: 

When I go off on multi-day treks I take; my schrade 4" fixed blade knife, 50' of 550 para-cord, my 8x magnifying lens, mish-metal match, my capote, wool poncho/sleeping blanket, billy can & canteen. . .that's it!

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## flandersander

I've asked you this before but what does a metal match do? Does it scrape off the knife or is ot the same as flint?

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## dragonchi

I am new to the group and going through the posts...I had to re-read what your friends took for the "Day trip"  I thought I missed something and it was for a few weeks...
Kept checking that you said "day trip"....what would they bring if you were going for a whole weekend...A cabin?

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## Rick

Welcome to the forum, Dragonchi. Why don't you trek over to the Introduction section and tell us a little about yourself?

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## Ole WV Coot

The older I get the more I weed out and the lighter I go. I can sleep anywhere, anytime and I don't need much. I could go lighter on my usual arsenal but I choose not. Now as to the bag of donuts, danish and assorted goodies I'm sure I would consider that an absolute necessity.

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## Omid

> Now I do use some modern equipment, but as I read different threads it tickles me how some of us hike, track, and camp in the forests and mountains. Foam Mats under their sleeping bags, etc.
> Hmmm... what ya'll think?



there are sleeping bags with foam mats!! What has happened!
"Where big buisness can make money, there will be unnecessary things sold that are 'better' then the old types"

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## Rick

It's true isn't it? I can sleep darn near anywhere as well. Driving, Operating heavy equipment, Volunteering at the Crisis Hot Line. Just about anywhere. If I get lucky, I'll get to go peacefully in my sleep. Not screaming and crying like dad's passengers.

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## klkak

I always pack light. If it don't fit in my day pack or the front rack of my ATV I don't take it. The back rack is for the dog now that he is to old to keep up. Unless I'm hunting Large game. then the back rack is for "Meat" and the dog stays home. If I had to guess I would say that my multi-day kit weights about 50lbs. Don't poo poo my ATV, I am slightly disabled. Cant hump like I used to so now I use an ATV. Oh and I dont sleep on the ground any more unless there is no choice. I'm old enough to make that call. I carry my military cot. I have a "Jetboil" cup/coffee press and Pot. Mil. messkit spoon, knife and fork. At least 2 knives, a hatchet and some form of firearm. (All Modern)

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## Rick

Hey, Omid. When you get to be our age, those mats are a necessity not a luxury. Oh, sure getting down there is easy. It's getting back up the next morning that's impossible. 

"Help! I've laid down and I can't get up!"

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## klkak

"*My* ouch ouch ouch *back* ouch ouch *and* ouch ouch *knees* ouch ouch ouch *to heck with it im staying in bed this morning*".

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## Ridge Wolf

> Now I do use some modern equipment, but as I read different threads it tickles me how some of us hike, track, and camp in the forests and mountains. Foam Mats under their sleeping bags, Sleeping bags, Stoves, Knives, Forks, Spoons, and plates, Portable heaters, axes, backpacks bigger than my army large A.L.I.C.E. pack, lanterns, flashlights, headlamps, and enough other crap to sustain a whole family when its just a weekend or a week. (by knives I do not mean the knives like K-bar etc. I mean a dinner knife)
> WTF.... is it just me, or do some of us take half the house into the woods? Now i am not saying you can't or shouldn't... but damn from a stand point of survival or just hiking I think some people take a lot. Although this could be that I try to take as little as possible, keep the weight down, and get what I need from nature.
> Hmmm... what ya'll think?
> P.S. I know some of us are new, and I don't mean to offend anyone so if I did that was not my intentions, sorry.


Stems from the history of american camping.. from city folks.. Now, I live in a city.. but I always thought that camping was supposed to be the capability of getting away from it all... not taking it with you. I do agree with you... and I do take some modern equipment... just to be safe out there.. with the practicality of those items.. and then sometimes the convenience of some of them too.. Times have changed Beo... We are now considered old timers.. maybe we need to accept and get used to it..  :EEK!:

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## Rick

Old timers? You bet. I'm certified! I have my AARP card and my discounts. You young guys can pay full price while I get my old codger's break.

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## Ridge Wolf

> Old timers? You bet. I'm certified! I have my AARP card and my discounts. You young guys can pay full price while I get my old codger's break.


Got my AARP too... But they keep sending me insurance applications... Their deal isn't such a great deal.... premiums increase as my income decreases.. IMHO.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Riverrat

I know what ya mean klkak, gotta love the ATV. I hurt my hip and lower back on a call over a year ago, and like you can not hike as much as I would like. When I go out I take my cot as well, that way I can get up and move in the morning, lol.

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## ws3445

I sometimes dream of going out into the woods but dont have the skills or equipment. And I kinda live in the suburbs so i cant go 
Me Sad

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## wildWoman

When I started getting into hiking and backpacking, I had no clue about equipment and had no skills, and got really crummy stuff and didn't know how to do things different. After some rather miserable, wet, cold trips, I went the other extreme and got brand-name stuff, most of which wasn't really worth the money. 
By now I've got it whittled down to a good tent (need one in the summer here, otherwise the bugs will drive you nuts) and alright sleeping bag and a 20-year old foamy. I don't pack a stove, use an ancient camp pot, cheapo boots, no gore-tex, and second hand wool or fllece clothing. My fancy Gregory backpack usually stays home and I use my patched up 20-year old cheapo pack instead. Bear spray and bug dope and a dry bag for hanging food.

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## crashdive123

> I sometimes dream of going out into the woods but dont have the skills or equipment. And I kinda live in the suburbs so i cant go 
> Me Sad


Maybe I'm missing something.  In your bio you say you're a bushman.  I've ruled out politics......am I missing something?

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## Rick

Are you kidding me? Fieldon in the suburbs? Alton maybe but you live right down the road from Pere Marquette. It's not 10 miles. Go hike!

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## DOGMAN

> Maybe I'm missing something.  In your bio you say you're a bushman.  I've ruled out politics......am I missing something?



Maybe her grew up in the Kalahari...and just moved on over to the US to get away from the heat.

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## crashdive123

What in the world does squid have to do with.......Oh....Kalahari, not kalamari.

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## zaebra

i personally pack modern, but i pack light (about 11 pounds for a 4-6 day pack currently).  don't get me wrong, i'm all for extreme survivalism with ancient technologies and materials, but those types of things are HEAVY.  i use ancient tools made with modern methods.  i don't have an ipod, dvd player, electronic bug repeller, or any other such nonsense.  about the only things that don't have an ancient counterpart are the flashlight and bug spray.  bear spray is a gimme, because that's not even funny.

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## klkak

I recently had Alaska Tent and Tarp make me a tarp out of the material they use for the fly on their Arctic Oven tent. It is 10'x10', 2" border and brass grommets. It only weighs about a pound and folds up pretty small and tight. I have been fooling around seeing how many different shelters I can make with it. I've come up with a couple that work well with my cot.

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## canid

nice to hear. i love the versatility of tarps. i mean i can always make it a tent when i need to, but a manufactured tent makes a poor fly tarp  :Big Grin:

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## dragonchi

What I really find interesting is that their are some "outdoor" shows on and they say that a foam pad is a must......now maybe when you get a little older ya like that kind of thing..
Have to admit my hips do not take as kindly to the hard ground as they used..but it is not a necessity,  is that not why nature supplies nice pine boughs.....or soft grass...ahhhh
But in this man made society we must BUY something to feel comfortable.
Heck if they can sell pine cones and sprigs of cedar at Christmas to the masses,  stuff that comes free in nature...... I am sure a  foam pad is and easy sell......lmao

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## dragonchi

Thanks for the welcome and Intro done....probably will add more later..
You know this is a great group....no egos,,,just good fun and advice....
well just kickin back with my two dogs and reading more back posts.....
This may take awhile....

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## Rick

Well, you might be laughing but I don't see a problem with them. You don't have to be old to appreciate them either. Nature has a way of dropping injuries on the old body that makes comfort sort of nice. I don't carry one myself but that's only because I don't want to drop 80-90 for one. I don't go around hacking pine boughs down either. My jaw sort of gets locked a bit when I happen upon a place where someone has butchered a tree. Sort of spoils the beauty for me. Don't have a problem with it if it's a need to situation but I can't see choosing that path for all my camping.

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## Ridge Wolf

> What I really find interesting is that their are some "outdoor" shows on and they say that a foam pad is a must......now maybe when you get a little older ya like that kind of thing..
> Have to admit my hips do not take as kindly to the hard ground as they used..but it is not a necessity, is that not why nature supplies nice pine boughs.....or soft grass...ahhhh
> But in this man made society we must BUY something to feel comfortable.
> Heck if they can sell pine cones and sprigs of cedar at Christmas to the masses, stuff that comes free in nature...... I am sure a foam pad is and easy sell......lmao


Foam pads are now high tech btw, with specialty foam and covers for it no doubt.. stiffer foam where the body's weight is the heaviest.

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## klkak

My military cot was free, my most expensive sleeping bag was less than $200 on sale and my sleeping mat I got on sale at "Sportsmans warehouse" for $30. When I leave the woods this stuff leaves with me. Oh and I sleep pretty darn good to.

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## Tony uk

Oooo Weights, I thought the idea was to cut down on the heavy stuff, Walking about the woods with a pack on is a good workout anyway.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Rick

"Where to, sir?"
"To the ridge, James. I think I'll camp out tonight."
"Very good, sir. Shall I put the Phantom in four wheel drive?"
"Let's. It's such great fun."
(James pulling chauffeur's hat down tighter) "Oh, thank you, sir. Hold on to your socks, as it were".

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## klkak

Rick, what are you trying to convey with that post?

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## Rick

Luxury in the wilderness? Comfort in the bush? Obviously, I failed. (Saddened, he walked away from the keyboard).

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## klkak

Oh, I thought maybe you were casting aspersions in my direction.

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## canid

no no rick, that was right on point i think. good show sir. spot of tea?

klkak: you'll have to get used to him, he had a bad fever as a child and the doctors say it's permanent....

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## Rick

I've cast spinners and top water lures. But I've never cast aspersions. I think I looked at them once but they were too expensive for my tastes. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Ole WV Coot

I kinda like my ATV also. I ain't as young anymore(can't tell by looking) so I kinda like the convenience of having it carry me and my stuff. If I am going more than a few miles into the woods I use it, carry lots of goodies and even sleep on it. The primitive folks can get a mule and load it up if they want but my Rincon is the only way to go when we go up to 60 miles off road. I kinda look at it like a modern day mule.

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## trax

I kinda like your ATV too Coot, can I have it? 

*ever since klkak got lucky with that tomahawk, I can't stop myself, and it looks like I struck out with Rick's handgun, so....*

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## Rick

> klkak: you'll have to get used to him, he had a bad fever as a child and the doctors say it's permanent....


Canid, I'll have you know people refer to me as touched. You know the good Lord don't touch just anyone. Why, just the other day someone made the comment that I'm not running on all cylinders. How's that for a compliment? Most folks require all of them but not me. I can get by with one less. Lot's of folks have referred to me as special, too.

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## Ridge Wolf

> "Where to, sir?"
> "To the ridge, James. I think I'll camp out tonight."
> "Very good, sir. Shall I put the Phantom in four wheel drive?"
> "Let's. It's such great fun."
> (James pulling chauffeur's hat down tighter) "Oh, thank you, sir. Hold on to your socks, as it were". Luxury in the wilderness? Comfort in the bush? Obviously, I failed. (Saddened, he walked away from the keyboard).


Over here we have the luxury of caviar from the sturgeon we catch and fine wine here on the ridge...

Come one, come all to the ridge... we'll manage.

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## canid

yeah you're a special case allright. but tell me this, can you show me on the doll where you where touched? wait, don't answer that.

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## Rick

Wine in the box, right? It's a multi use item you know.

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## Rick

> yeah you're a special case allright. but tell me this, can you show me on the doll where you where touched?


Can I have a butcher knife?

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## klkak

"You dont have to be crazy to post here... we will train you"

How will I know that I'm all trained up?

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## Rick

It's the old catch 22, klkak. If you know you're trained then you aren't crazy. If you don't know you're trained then you are crazy but you won't know it.

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## klkak

I was hoping you could give me some kind of goal. Like when I hit 500 post or something like that.

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## canid

no no rick, i tried getting him to catch the .22 but it turns out he's not that crazy yet.

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## Rick

Klkak - See? Your question alone says you just aren't ready, Weedhopper. You still think like an outsider. We have no goals. Goals don't exist when you become one with the forum. Become a part of it. Allow it to control your mind.

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## klkak

OMG, What have I gotten myself into?

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## klkak

Whats that light?
Its so beautiful.
Its beckoning to me.
I must go to it....................*ZZZZaaaaapppppp*!

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## canid

ok; you're in. here's your membership hat. that's genuine aluminum.

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## Rick

Good. Now that we got rid of HIM. I'm still a little miffed over that whole tomahawk thing.

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## klkak

Ok! fine! you can have the tomahawk!
I'll go make my own!

Um..., What tomahawk are we talking about anyway?

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## Alpine_Sapper

> What I really find interesting is that their are some "outdoor" shows on and they say that a foam pad is a must......now maybe when you get a little older ya like that kind of thing..
> Have to admit my hips do not take as kindly to the hard ground as they used..but it is not a necessity,  is that not why nature supplies nice pine boughs.....or soft grass...ahhhh
> But in this man made society we must BUY something to feel comfortable.
> Heck if they can sell pine cones and sprigs of cedar at Christmas to the masses,  stuff that comes free in nature...... I am sure a  foam pad is and easy sell......lmao


Um, the foam ground pads are more about insulation than comfort. That whole heat loss through conduction thing and all. 

And in following good "leave no trace" ethics, you may not always be able to find that "comfy" natural padding laying around on the ground, or grass where you're going to stop at for the night.

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## nell67

> Ok! fine! you can have the tomahawk!
> I'll go make my own!
> 
> Um..., What tomahawk are we talking about anyway?


The tomahawk in the "homemade tomahawk" thread.You asked,he said yes :EEK!:

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## klkak

Nell, I know. It was a lame attempt at being funny.

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## commoguy

> I'm tempted to buy a ridgerest pad since I do wake up at least 4 times during the night readjusting myself.  Other than that, I agree with you.  Too many people bring their home crap.  I went out on a trip with two high school friends last year and they brought *for a day trip* (and you can't make this stuff up):
> 
> 12-person tent (mind you, I was in my own tarptent so there was only two people in this monster)
> Jumprope and weights (one of my friends couldn't miss his daily workout...)
> magazines and books (for when it gets 'boring at dusk')
> fold-up 'camp' furniture (x3... they really thought I needed one... I'm happy with a rock or stump)
> metal grill (to put over the fire for hotdog grilling)
> hotdogs, pop, yogurt, and all other kinds of refrigerated perishables
> 50gallon cooler to store the aforementioned
> ...


personally and no offense to you but i see your view as one sided.  yes there are alot of niceties they brought BUT everyones definition of camping is different.  i mean it is one thing to go out in the woods with your buddies to camp and bs but it is another completely to go survival camping.  your disapproval of their "camping" gear may discourage them from going out and enjoying the wilderness.  next time why not issue a challenge to see if they can make it a weekend with bare necessities and explain it a bit.

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## canid

yeah alpine i have to agree. much as i like my zero degree bag, i couldn't sleep on snow in it alone, on the other hand, in 25f. or colder conditions i could easily sleep on the ridgerest pad with a $12 kmart bag, barring high wind chill. it weighs half a pound or so and it's worth it to me. it also insulates a person from runoff to a reasonable extent, which helped me out in the hoh rainforest.

i prefer my hammock, but when i tried to sleep in that in winter '04 in Payette NF i almost lost my tender-bits. that night was -20f with the wind and i would have liked to have had it at the time.

i like to have options, even if i can usually leave them at home.

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## Sam

> Klkak - See? Your question alone says you just aren't ready, Weedhopper. You still think like an outsider. We have no goals. Goals don't exist when you become one with the forum. Become a part of it. Allow it to control your mind.


 Joining is belonging. Pass the kool-aid.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Rick

Sam knows. He and the forum are one.

Canid - Which Ridge Rest do you use? The Deluxe or the Regular. I've held off on buying one because I don't want to drop a sawbuck on a pad but the Ridge Rest is half that price. I was just wondering which you use and how well you like it.

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## canid

i actually have the regular short one. i'd have prefered the 6' one but it was clearance and i snagged it cheap. still; i wouldn't trade it for one of those old $40 inflatable ones i used to have for anything. i don't know what the difference in the deluxe model is.

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## Rick

Well, the deluxe says, "The thickest, warmest closed-cell pad." That's all I know. It's 8' 6" long and less than $50 so I might have to look into that. Thanks!!

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## crashdive123

Rick - Amazon looks like they have some good pricing.  http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_2rqxz6fak5_e

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## Rick

(chuckle) Yeah, number 5 is the one I was looking at on that page when I posted. Thanks.

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