# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > General Homesteading >  Lawn mower

## hunter63

Tis the season to start laking, blowing and mowing up the vast deposits of leaves.

So started up my mower, ran about 5 min and quit....?
Restarted and did the same thing......? ran good when it ran but just stopped.

So now I start checking around, clean the air cleaner, same thing...runs good for 5 min then quits?

I'm thinking, maybe bad gas?......so pulled the line, and just a very small trickle comes out....loosen up the gas cap....flowed normal.

Blew back thru the line, same thing.

Loose cap, runs, tight cap quits.......Looked around for a vent for the tank....can't see one.
So drilled a small hole in the cap, runs fine.....finished the job.......

So do mowers have vent in the fuel system?.......Gotta be one some where?

Checked this vid, no mention of a vent?
http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDeta...rHelpVideoTabs

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## Cast-Iron

I am experiencing a similar problem with my mowers.  I've inspected and cleaned air filters and spark plugs and even replaced fuel filter on one machine.  I am beginning to suspect a fuel quality issue even though I always add a stabilizer to all fuel I place into a gas cans.  It has me wondering if this may be a problem caused by the ethanol now government mandated in auto gas.  I have considered switching to aviation fuel 100LL, but I'm not sure if: 1) I can legally buy it for a non-aviation use, and, 2) the avgas will cause accelerated engine wear or damage?  

Does anyone here have any experience with using 100LL in small engines?

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## natertot

> I am experiencing a similar problem with my mowers.  I've inspected and cleaned air filters and spark plugs and even replaced fuel filter on one machine.  I am beginning to suspect a fuel quality issue even though I always add a stabilizer to all fuel I place into a gas cans.  It has me wondering if this may be a problem caused by the ethanol now government mandated in auto gas.  I have considered switching to aviation fuel 100LL, but I'm not sure if: 1) I can legally buy it for a non-aviation use, and, 2) the avgas will cause accelerated engine wear or damage?  
> 
> Does anyone here have any experience with using 100LL in small engines?


Have you tried adding a little octane booster? Might be cheaper/easier for ya.

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## natertot

Hunter, could it be that the fuel filter is collapsing on you?

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## hunter63

> I am experiencing a similar problem with my mowers.  I've inspected and cleaned air filters and spark plugs and even replaced fuel filter on one machine.  I am beginning to suspect a fuel quality issue even though I always add a stabilizer to all fuel I place into a gas cans.  It has me wondering if this may be a problem caused by the ethanol now government mandated in auto gas.  I have considered switching to aviation fuel 100LL, but I'm not sure if: 1) I can legally buy it for a non-aviation use, and, 2) the avgas will cause accelerated engine wear or damage?  
> 
> Does anyone here have any experience with using 100LL in small engines?


No but it runs like crazy in a VW engine in a Formula V......LOL. of course the races are on only 1/2 to 1 hr long, and engine gets rebuilt every 4-5 races or so....or when the brass starts showing up in the oil.....

I was pouring into the tank of the race car, kid about 8-9 years old, says, "Hey Mister, what kind of gas is that, it's green?"
So I said, "Sunoco 260......."
Kid says,. My dad uses that... and it's purple...."
I told him...."This is fresh"




> Hunter, could it be that the fuel filter is collapsing on you?


This unit doesn't have one unless it inside the tank....just a direct line from the tank to the carb.......
Who would have thought you could stop the gas flow with an open line by just tightening up the cap.....

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## natertot

I never heard of it either. Definately sounds like a vacuum is created in the tank or line. I just dunno what causes it. I looked at my mower and the cap has four tiny holes on the top and then a cork type liner on the inside. Seems like this is a normal thing and you putting a hole in the cap is what manufacturers do. I just wonder why yours didn't have a hole or two in the first place.

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## kyratshooter

Hunter, my gas can cap and my mower cap are the same size.  I got them mixed up once and had the same thing happen.  The can cap was not vented and the mower cap had a hole in the cap for a vent.

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## Graf

Many lawn mowers have vented caps, usally inside the cap is a plastic baffle that will allow air to vent either through small perforations or holes in the cap. Carburators also have a check valve style vent, so either could be non functioning causing the problem. Usally  the carb vent gets plugged through stale gas residue. Clean with carb cleaner blow out dry with compressed air and should be good to go.

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## hunter63

This cap didn't have a vent of any kind, maybe on the carb?.......and yeah, this crap gas and of course mowing up dry leaves really creates a dust storm, and will plug up air cleaner in a heart beat....requires constant cleaning, to say nothing of the "raccoon eyes" on my face when I doing the mowing.

So maybe removing the carb and giving it a good soaking will be in order.

It's running good now, with a lot of leaves to still fall......sound like a winter project.....

Played with a lot of gas motors, but this is a new one.

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## edr730

They do have recreational gas here that is about 5.00 per gallon without alcohol that I have recently found. You might check around. My friend has an outboard motor that he has been taking to the mechanic every year due to the alcohol. He also has a husky chainsaw that is only one year old that was just past warranty that the mechanics said the alcohol damaged the carborator. You seem to have solved the problem tho. I always stand in one place and rake leave toward me in a circle then move to another spot and do the same. Then use a big tarp and drag it around and rake the leaves on it and pile them on the garden. our big drop of leaves is around the 15th to the 20th depending on the frosts.

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## Rick

Have you ever filled it too full and gas runs out even after the cap is on tight? Vent. Look inside the cap. You either pull air through a hole in the cap or around the threads. Otherwise, as you've seen, as fuel empties it creates a vacuum. I don't know what kind of mower you have but some John Deere and some Tecumseh (made by same?) have two sets of vents. There is one in the top of the cap and one in a metal disc inside the gas cap. Either one could shut you down. Dare I say it? Check the manual?

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## hunter63

What?.... Read The Manual?.........Real men don't need no stinkin' manual, ...LOL.

I suppose I could look for in in my pile of manuals.....but no, this one is/was (has hole now) solid plastic, no hole or baffle, or even a liner for that matter.
I did a search on Craftsmen, Thats the brand of the mower.... came up with a vid on changing the tank that I posted on the 1 st post , didn't really pay any attention to the make of motor.

And yeah, I do rake and bag, but this BIG tree has a LOT of leaves.......I planted the dern thing 35 years ago....and wish I hadn't.

My leaves are composted for the garden, so the shreaded version breaks down faster, that reason for the mow and bag.

We can't burn them any more, used to alternate burn one year, till in the next....now I bag and add to compost thru out the year as my 
"browns"

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## Jimmyq

Hunter, do you run the mower over the leaves before composting?

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## hunter63

> Hunter, do you run the mower over the leaves before composting?


Yes, they really break down faster that way, and the sticks get pretty much ground up as well.
You don't have to....but does work better.

I do have a big shreader, but it would require double handling,..... so I just mow them up, and either till in of save in black bags for mext summer's compost mix.

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## jenny_gr

> Yes, they really break down faster that way, and the sticks get pretty much ground up as well.
> You don't have to....but does work better.


I agree. They break down more often than we would like. And unfortunately there is nothing that we can do to avoid this inconvenience.

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## Rick

Welcome. I'm not sure I understand.

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## hunter63

> I agree. They break down more often than we would like. And unfortunately there is nothing that we can do to avoid this inconvenience.


Hunter63, saying Hey and Welcome.....
...and I guess I don't understand either....I want them to break down in the garden.

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## crashdive123

It's almost like comparing tractors to leaves. :Whistling:

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## woodsman86

I guess it has already been answered, but yup clean the carb and get a new vented cap. Caps and carb cleaner are cheap. I clean the carb on my equipment every winter, it always seemed to be the biggest problem come spring. I still have a pressure washer I got from my dad that sat with stabil in it for about 10years, it is a mess of gunk.

As for leaves, I have a bagger for the mower. I only use it if the leaves get to thick to mulch with the mower.

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## hunter63

The leaf season is in full swing, my card cleaning and modified cap from last year seems to be holding out, as I have already done several mow/bag operations so far....and running well.

When I did the tear down, last fall there was a mounting plate, plastic that had a=some channels molded into the plastic, purpose unknown, that were gunked up, so started with a clean plate.

The added vent seems to be working well......so I ain't fooling with it.....(old race car adage....if it's running good, don't mess with it).

Mulched leaves are a valuable addition to our heavy clay soil...along with compost and of course, cow poop.

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## woodsman86

well that is what I get for not checking date stamps....  :Brickwall:    Funny as it was same time year though

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## hunter63

No worries, this was a problem that I had never dealt with, and does make sense that a tank needs a vent.......

But I gotta tell ya....looked really weird,..... cap off, gas flow freely..........cap on, gas stopped for an open line......Who would have thunk it.

Hopefully this helps some one else in the future.....The whole idea, right?

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## Wildthang

Hunter, if you keep the mower inside a barn when not in use, just drill a small hole in the cap. Some caps have a groove through the threads on the inside that allows air to get in from under the cap as well.

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## hunter63

> Loose cap, runs, tight cap quits.......Looked around for a vent for the tank....can't see one.
> So drilled a small hole in the cap, runs fine.....finished the job.......


Yeah, that's what I did, and added a steel stud sheet metal screw with built in washer, to keep it from splashing out....
And yeah it's own it's own Rubber Maid sliding top shed.

Have to mow again this afternoon........really windy today, maybe I'll just blow them the down the driveway and let the wind take them east.....LOL

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## Viper58

I know this reply comes late to everyone who posted but the newer mowers no longer have the traditional holes in the gas caps we're all used to seeing to vent the tanks. When experiencing a flow issue such as described in these posts, simply replace the gas cap with a new one and that will correct the problem. Been working on these things for years....

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## Wise Old Owl

Three years and nobody posted the best answer... ( I am sure some of you know this by now.) one cannot walk into a small motor shop and not see the warnings.

Generally accepted in the engine industry is that Ethanol is bad, but what does bad really mean? Most enthusiasts have heard of the storage issues related to Ethanol blended fuels, but what is the best course of action concerning these issues? Do Ethanol additives help the problem? Recently, even the mainstream media has picked up on this growing problem such as this article that was recently posted on FoxNews.com. Let’s address each of the issues one by one, and present some viable options for dealing with these issues.


Ethanol is hygroscopic. No, that is not some foot fungus. It means that Ethanol likes water. That is a great quality when you order on scotch on the rocks. However, water makes for a pretty lousy fuel.

During periods of extended storage, Ethanol tends to draw in atmospheric moisture which can lead to a build-up of water in your fuel cell or container. Because the density of water is greater than gasoline, the Ethanol/Water mixture separates from the gasoline and settles to the bottom of the fuel cell. Industry refers to this as Phase Separation, and because the pick-up is located on the bottom of the fuel cell, the first thing sucked up when you try to crank the engine is the Ethanol/Water mixture.

Not only will this cause your lawn mower not to start in the Spring, it will also pump a corrosive cocktail through your engine, and since some of that water/Ethanol cocktail ends up in your crankcase, your motor oil is not very happy either.

Speaking of corrosion, many people do not realize that Ethanol is not transported in the pipelines with gasoline. The ethanol is added later just prior to delivery to your local gas station. You see, ethanol is very corrosive, so the pipeline companies don’t want the Ethanol eating the pipelines.

Which leads us to our next issue, fuel system corrosion. While modern fuel injection engines feature materials compatible with Ethanol, Carburetors are made from alloys of Zinc and Aluminum, both of which are susceptible to corrosive properties of Ethanol. Many carburetor rebuilders have reported seeing “white” deposits inside the Carburetors, and detailed laboratory analysis confirmed that these deposits are result of corrosion from Ethanol blended fuels. The greater the ethanol concentration the worse the problem, and periods of extended storage only worsen the problem. In fact the US Department of Energy’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory warns against the use of Zinc or Aluminum with Ethanol. Additives designed to help prevent Phase Separation generally contain Alcohol which can make the corrosion problem worse.

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## natertot

Best answer? While I don't know anyone who disagrees that ethanol is not good for small engines, it has nothing to do with fuel flow caused by poor or improper ventilation.

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## hunter63

I guess the original problem wasn't spelled out good enough.....but it's been a couple of years and it still has the screw/washer combination, and still running just fine.

As a matter of fact...as I have been using a garden tractor with 48" cut deck.....haven't used that mower with the bagger till this fall.

Had sat for a year, or close to it.....checked the tank...had a bit of gas w/Sea Foam still in the than....so dumped in fresh, primed it up, and fired up first pull......and stayed running.

Did add Sea Foam again this last fall.

Couple of things learned.....
That channel in the carb cover/housing, that leads to the bulb primer....acts as a venturi, not a direct squirt into the carb body...blows air across the outlet.
Gas is getting worse, at least in the opinion of the chain saw shop guy.
Some time the best fix is a new carb.....replaced it on the snow blower....been running wonderful....

But, cable for the auger broke Wed on that snow blower.....guy actually had one on the wall at his shop....so the small engine repairs continue.

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## kyratshooter

Your small engine guy sounds like mine.

His grown daughter runs the parts counter.  I went in there a couple of years back after breaking a drive belt on the mower deck of the 1973 Wheel Horse.  I told her the belt length and she corrected me instantly explaining that they stretch, walked to "the wall", picked what I needed from the thousand belts hanging there and sent me on my way.  She did not even look up the part number!

She was right too!

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## Rick

I guess every location has one of those. The one I go to is a family run affair as well. They are happy to see you and they treat you like you are doing them a favor instead of the other way around. And they don't charge you an arm and a bar or a blade and a leg or however that saying goes. .

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## natertot

Yep, got a local guy about ten minutes away. Same kind of thing. He also sells antiques, used tools, used camping gear and other random things in the front of the building. Halfway back is the small engine counter. He also sells firewood by the bulk, has stacks of it on pallets in front of the store. Did I also mention he is the president of the gun club I belong too? Yep, pretty well rounded guy with fantastic service. (Besides, one of my favorite LGS is right next door. But that is just icing on the cake!)

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## hunter63

The belt was going bad as well....and karma being what it is.....would have broken as soon as I tightened up the cover to test out the cable install.
I hadn't noticed it first off, concentrating on the cable....so my oversight on the first inspection, cost me another trip and 6 bucks later.
Stupidity means more work and money than necessary....

Anyway, auto parts store closer, first one had young girl...brought me a correct length belt wrong width/thickness.......so on to the next.
This one had a older girl/lady....says "Snowblower...Right?"......I said "Yup" ......

Kid standing there says "I bet it's a blah, blah, blah...The most popular one sold"......and shows me his phone......
I said, "I don't know about that, but I would settle for the correct one for my machine"

She walked in the back with my old one, comes back in a couple of minutes with the correct belt.....wasn't the one his "magic phone listed".

Looks like I will be needing a scraper bar (rubber) soon, but think they are double sided....wear out one side,...... try to get bolts out, ....then cut them off(LOL)......then buy new bolts,....reverse the bar, and re-install...... go order a new one...

Blower about 6 years old, little one for small, light snow falls.....BUT did invest in an $80 buck carb last year....But maybe I will wait ????

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## Rick

That's funny. Every job requiring a trip to Ace Hardware is a three trip job. I'm not sure why it just works out that way. I'd go to Lowes just to break the cycle but it's further away. (actually closer when you add up the trips....shrug). It used to tick me off but now it's just par for the course. It's like playing the lottery I guess. One of these days I'll get a one trip job.

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## natertot

> That's funny. Every job requiring a trip to Ace Hardware is a three trip job. I'm not sure why it just works out that way. I'd go to Lowes just to break the cycle but it's further away. (actually closer when you add up the trips....shrug). It used to tick me off but now it's just par for the course. It's like playing the lottery I guess. One of these days I'll get a one trip job.


Hahaha! I thought I was the only one like that! I start planning my projects by the rules of three. Each project requires at least three trips to the store, will cost three times as much as I think it will, and will take three times as long as I think it will. Once I started doing that, things started to go a little smoother!

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## hunter63

The "Three trip job" rule should be posted in those places where fix-it guys go and hang out......
Notice, 
All DYI jobs require:
1)"RTFM", if possible
2) a note book and pencil.......
3) actually look at what you are working on to find out and *write down*.
Size,.... color,.... Make,.. model,... serial number.....

*Before* buying all sorts of stuff to throw at the project.

My Ace hardware store used to just open me an account, and have me check out at the end....saved all the bringing "the wrong size back".(usually trip 2) addition and returns to one trip.

Working on a kitchen sink leak....was getting late, but I had banged into the drain, breaking loose the putty seal around the rim...(old style).
I had been making  my trips, complaining about having to buy 2 or 5 of something, when I only needed one, because of packaging.

So..... now it is 8:45 PM closes at 9:00....and I needed a small amount of plumbers putty to re-set the drain.....because the 3, one pound cans, that have one scoop out of have hardened up.......
Guy hands me a new one pound can.....
I came back with, "Is that the smallest amount you have?.....I only need a bit for the drain set."

By now he was sick of me....so took a screw driver off the rack, opened the can, ...dug out a scoop out of the can with a new putty knife...put it in a paper towel....and says, "Here, now get out of my store, I'm closing up........."

PS, 
When working on a vehicle....make sure it isn't blocking all other vehicles in driveway.....for the other 2 trips.

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## madmax

Late to the party.  Sorry.  My wife mows our lawn with a 99 dollar special.  When it starts blowing black smoke we put it in the alley and somebody snags it.  Buy a new one.  Mowing isn't my thing.  My business partner in a commercial landscaping biz decided he wanted to expand into lawn care.  uh huh.  We split.  Both did well.  I didn't have to mow.

I didn't mind the big tractor field thing.  Hate the little pushy crap.

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## hunter63

I generally point out how many women are mowing grass while DW and I are traveling around.....deaf ears.....I guess....
But got that covered......LOL
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Or....I know you don't know what this stuff is......LOL

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## madmax

Brother,  I spent much time in northern MN and ID.  LOL.  Yup.  I know what that stuff is.

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## Rick

There are two things my wife did not do. Mow grass and mow grass.

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## hunter63

....I hear ya....and add pick up after the dogs....

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## madmax

> There are two things my wife did not do. Mow grass and mow grass.


LOL.  Well she's smart.

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## madmax

Wait... she might read this...  Dang it!

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## hunter63

I guess the repair stuff really never ends.....
During the week...DW car's battery went dead ....from sitting in the garage, I guess.

Was thinking...That should be only a couple or years old.......Turns out 2007...(????) 
I guess time goes faster when you are getting older......(subject for another thread, LOL)...

Anyway, used the charger to get started...then drove over and had "the Guy" put in a new one.....

So, all set now right?.....
Well, today went into garage....smelled gasoline...WTH???

Big snow blower, fuel line leaking.....
Sooooo...got out the oil dry.....pulled the tank on the snow blower to shut off the leak.

Went out and got a new piece of line....replaced and rerouted it so as not to have to tear the whole shroud and carb off....

Oh, well.....

Never ends......

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## crashdive123

It's things like that that make us still feel useful.

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## hunter63

Seems like it just to test us......
Fingers cold, feet cold, can't see thru my glasses as well as I used to.....got to get down on my knees...AND get back up again.....
Used to be kinda fun....but now at the 217th time, starting to get a tad old.....LOL

PS, 
Noticed that these days I would rather buy another package of hose clamps @$3.69 while I at the auto parts store.....then look thru all the possible "special places" I put the spares the last time I had one go....twang! to never, never land....and you know it will.
You will find the others when you put the new ones away.... But saves a possible trip and time looking for them.

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## Rick

If I had a nickel for every time I asked myself, now where did I put those? Everything you said in that last post is gospel. God help me if something has to be done NOW and I don't have my glasses. Even if I have them it can still be a challenge. I guess that's why God invented magnifying glass. (I now know why all the old folks I ever knew owned several)

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## hunter63

Had a electrician friend I worked with....had trifocals made...with the bottom "bi" being the same as the top "bi"...as a lot of his work was looking up.......
But I have to tell you, gets really frustrating when you know you "usetacould".....LOL

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## crashdive123

:Innocent:

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