# General > General Chat >  Alaska Experiment

## Rick

For those that might be interested, the Alaska Experiment is on the Discovery Channel tonight at 10:00 Eastern.

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## klkak

Thanx Rick

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## crashdive123

Watching it as I type.

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## klkak

It comes on at 9pm Alaska time.

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## owl_girl

Those 2 girls are so b*tchy, I understand stress but wow. I really dont think thats an excuse to treat people that way.

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## Sourdough

I just watched it. It was on Direct TV at 6:PM (Which is 10:PM EDT). They made too big of a deal about the bears. But it was pretty accurate. The people were dirty, there coats and cloths were dirty. Some one could have told her how to "Bonk" a fish on the top of the head, not beat it about the side, but she got it done. Overall I would give it a B+  as they sure could have edited it to a different lame spin.

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## crashdive123

Owl Girl - you should have seen it last week.  The girls started out ok, but within an hour of getting to their cabin and taking an inventory of their food, and knowing they did not have enough to last, they dove into a jar of peanut butter.  You're right about b*tchy - spoiled rotten too.

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## owl_girl

I did see it last week and yea that was pretty bad and the way they were fighting like nuts over shoe placment lol. They woulda drove me nuts. Id go somewhere quiet

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## klkak

I wanted to reach into the tv and slap them both. After watching the first one I think the husband/wife on the beach have the best chance.

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## crashdive123

I'm guessing by the end of this they will either grow up, kill each other, or drive their dad to sleep outside.

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## crashdive123

> I wanted to reach into the tv and slap them both. After watching the first one I think the husband/wife on the beach have the best chance.


Won't give away what happened because it hasn't aired yet in some places, but the couple with the out of shape guy pleasantly suprised me.

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## klkak

> Won't give away what happened because it hasn't aired yet in some places, but the couple with the out of shape guy pleasantly suprised me.


Very very interesting

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## owl_girl

> After watching the first one I think the husband/wife on the beach have the best chance.


Yea i think so too, they seemed alright

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## klkak

Just finished watching it. The guy that got the goat seems to have the survival mind set. The 2 groups of 3 need to start working together better especialy the guy with the 2 daughters. He needs to find his balls. I hope to 2 in the walltent catch a break soon or things are going to get real bad for them.

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## Rick

> They made too big of a deal about the bears.


Maybe. But from an outsider looking in I'll tell you my head was on a swivel the whole time I was there. I felt about like the show portrayed. The same way about gators when I was in remote areas of Florida. Some might call it chicken sh**. I prefer to think of it as finely tuned senses.  :Big Grin: 

The couple that was successful in canning all their fish. Is it just me or did that look like meager supplies for the winter?

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## crashdive123

I hope they were just showing the process and not the entire end result.  If that was it, they had better become very proficient in hunting kind of quickly.

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## Rick

What's for breakfast, dear? 

Fish

What's for lunch, dear? 

Fish

What's for dinner, dear? 

Fish

Runs out screaming incoherently into a blizzard.

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## crashdive123

Girls?  Where's that giant jar of peanut butter?

We ate it on the first day dad.

What?  That should have lasted us three months!

What ev.  Get over it.

(Dad leaves cabin to throw himself in the icy water)

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## Rick

I love her comment. "And there's nothing Dad can do."

Me as dad walking up with switch. "Wanna bet?"

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## nell67

If I had said that to my dad,I never would have heard his reply,I would however, have still been feeling it a week later when I picked myself up off the floor.

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## crashdive123

Oh yeah.  But not having kids, was there any truth to the "This is going to hurt me more than it is you."  I just never bought into it.

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## nell67

It's all lies crash.

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## Rick

Uh, no. The hurtin' started when dad said, "Go pick out a switch and it better be a stout one."

Fortunately, that didn't happen very often. Probably because I had too much respect for him to say something stupid like that.

I never said that to my kids (I used a baseball bat....no, no, no. Not true). But there were times I had to discipline them and sure didn't want to.

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## Aurelius95

I was late getting on board with this show, but you can watch the full episodes (First only, now) here:

http://video.discovery.com/#

They only run 30 seconds of commercials at the breaks, so you can watch the entire episode in 45 minutes.

Not sure when they'll have episode 2 on it. 

I think the father and two girls have a completely dysfunctional family and I echo what everyone else has been saying already.  No respect for each other.

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## klkak

I can't believe that dad agreed to spend 3 months in a cabin with two women he must have known dont respect him.

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## crashdive123

Maybe it's his way of trying to teach them something about life or themselves.  Of course there is the possibility that he could use them for grizz bait.

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## Sam

> Maybe it's his way of trying to teach them something about life or themselves.  Of course there is the possibility that he could use them for grizz bait.


 Two words that outline his plan Life Insurance. Gee your honor I don't know what happened, I guess wild animals took off with them while I was fishing. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## klkak

To bad there is a camara crew watching. 3 months is enough time for the bruises from a rightous *ss beating to go away.

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## Alpine_Sapper

> To bad there is a camara crew watching. 3 months is enough time for the bruises from a rightous *ss beating to go away.


oranges and a pillow case, large bribe to he camera crew. "Hey guys, here's a sack of ganja and a $100 bill each . Why don't you take a break?"

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## grundle

What makes me sick is that dad and the two brats come from my city.  I hope to god people don't start thinking we're all like that here.

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## Sourdough

> What makes me sick is that dad and the two brats come from my city.  I hope to god people don't start thinking we're all like that here.



Don't know what city you live in, however "I" am not one to discriminate; I believe all children in the lower 48 and Los Anchorage are like that........ :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## grundle

> Don't know what city you live in, however "I" am not one to discriminate; I believe all people in the lower 48 and Los Anchorage are like that........


Ahaha,  I guess that show is proving your point.  I have to admit we do have our fair share of idiots down here.

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## Sourdough

My theory is that it has to do with "WORK", those of us lucky enough to be raised on a farm knew there was only the farm, at a young age you learned that the farm supports you, and that you must support the farm. We started work at age three. Work and school was your life. I think if every child spent more time working and less time at the mall or gang stuff, or electronic entertainment, that they the children would be happier, and have more self worth, and feel that they contribute to the family unit.

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## Aurelius95

When the "wall tent" couple canned their fish, some lids were not sealed.  Is it possible to reseal them at that point, or do they just need to eat all they can? (but not he cans/jars!  :Smile: )

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## trax

> My theory is that it has to do with "WORK", those of us lucky enough to be raised on a farm knew there was only the farm, at a young age you learned that the farm supports you, and that you must support the farm. We started work at age three. Work and school was your life. I think if every child spent more time working and less time at the mall or gang stuff, or electronic entertainment, that they the children would be happier, and have more self worth, and feel that they contribute to the family unit.


I agree with the theory, and you don't necessarily have to come from a farm to learn it. You just need to have parents with the backbone to teach it to their ankle biters.

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## klkak

If your canning job fails its pretty much a loss. It appears to me that they did not have enough pressure in the pot. When I can salmon I dont put the rings on the jars until I take them out of the pot. Thats the way I seen my Grandmother do it.

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## trax

If that's the way you seen your Grandmother do it, I'm betting that's the way to go alright. Actually, me too, that's the way my Mom and Grandma did it. SO the three of 'em together, klkak, gotta be right, right?

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## canid

i leave the bands loose, so that the expanding air can still escape, but with the lid well in place and just barely screwed on so that it still seals and holds a hardcore vacuum as it cools. this helps me be more sure no gasses are being produced [and hance, no microbes are present] inside the jar while it's stored. if the vacuum isn't still fully sealed, the jar isn't trustworthy.

i've still only seen the one episode [the first] but i look foreward to seeing how it plays out. my first thought is that that is my idea of a vacation.

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## Rick

I'm with Canid. You can put the rings on, just don't tighten them. I always thought they helped keep the lid centered.

Hopeak - I agree with you and Trax. I started sorting potatoes at 6. I got 10 cents a hundred pound. You've never seen panic until you see a 6 year old grab a rotten potato. The worst smell on earth.

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## cajun swamp hunter

Canid I agree this would be a dream come true. My son wants to apply if there would be a second show.  We always left the rings a little loose also and it works every time. Make sure the disc wieght is on the right preesure setting for what you are cooking and time it right  or it will be canned mush.

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## Omid

Those two girls weren't smart...

Wasting the peanut butter like that!

And di you see how they yelled at each other

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## crashdive123

For those intereste, episode 3 is on tonight - Discovery Channel 10:00 pm eastern.

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## nell67

Trying to stay awake for it,LOL 2 was awfully early to get up this morning :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## crashdive123

I set up my recorder just in case I get sleepy.  I think it airs a few times before the next new one.

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## nell67

Yea,but I'm a sucker for the first go round  :Big Grin:

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## crashdive123

Agreed...and by the time you watch it, it'll probably have been critiqued to death here.

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## nell67

Absolutely,and I would HAVE to read what everyone is saying,LOL.

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## Ridge Wolf

What is this, a new reality show? I haven't seen the first episode.. didn't know it was on.. and then, there is competition for the TV.. but I will be watching tonite.. it is on in about an hour.. Judging from the posts on this thread, this is a show about some city slickers that went to Alaska to see if they could survive? and carrying their home boy attitudes? Hmmm, Swivel head huh Rick? maybe I'll find myself taking the release off on mine tonite too..

Well, I watched tonites episode.. #2 I believe.. I can see the moose hunters surviving.. the others don't seem to have a clue yet... Of course, it helps when you have some modern equipment available.. that suddenly appears from off camera.

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## Rick

Let me get this straight. You hike umpteen miles to find water when there is snow all around you. "It's a lot more work". Than what? hiking umpteen miles? 

And who in their right mind hunts a wolf......with a .22? Why? Because they left their goat outside and he might get it. Well, hello? 

And am I wrong but don't you have to put bait in a crab pot or do the crabs just sacrifice themselves for you? 

Where do they get these nimrods?

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## Ridge Wolf

> Let me get this straight. You hike umpteen miles to find water when there is snow all around you. "It's a lot more work". Than what? hiking umpteen miles? Well, they needed water because powdered gatorade doesn't mix with snow.. 
> 
> And who in their right mind hunts a wolf......with a .22? Why? Because they left their goat outside and he might get it. Well, hello? 
> 
> 
> 
> ```
> 
> And am I wrong but don't you have to put bait in a crab pot or do the crabs just sacrifice themselves for you? 
> ...


They need to put the crab pot in the water... never mind the bait..  :Big Grin:

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## crashdive123

I think the funniest/saddest/dumbest (pick one, two or all three) was trying to take a buffalo with a 22 at what, 100 yards or so?

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## Rick

I think if you look up futile in the dictionary that picture of him firing at the buffalo just might be listed there.

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## Sourdough

I did not see it, but I sounds like some Hunting Laws were Violated........

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## klkak

I watched it Hopeak, He didn't fire at the Bison. They later showed real survivor instinct by scavenging from the carcass.

The couple with the goat are trying to protect their meat supply. I'd hunt that wolf to. and by the way, you might be surprised what a .22lr will kill. I've killed plenty of critters big and small with one, to include Hogs, Steers, Coyotes, Fox, Lynx and Mountain cats just to name a few.

The couple on the beach did have bait in the crab traps. When he was placing the rocks in the one you could see it hanging in the trap. (They need help real bad)

I cant formulate words to comment on the father/daughter group.

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## canid

no, no ridge. it's like old timers' halibut lures. you just have to carve charms on them and the crabs will gladly jump into the pots. not the crab pots, the cooking pots.

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## Rick

Missed the crab bait, Klak. My bad. 

Instead of expending all that energy tracking the wolf wouldn't they have been much better off doing something different with the meat? I kept thinking they would be out tracking and come home to find a bear had raided their "freezer". They were burning like 4000 calories a day for no reason (you live there so tell me if I'm wrong). 

I would think a .22 in your hands is just a tad bit different that a .22 in his hands. Just my opinion.

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## Aurelius95

Do you think the father/daughters group are not fighting as much, or do you think they just edited out?  I feel it's the latter.  Also, who makes a crapper inside your living quarters next to your cooking/food area?  No wonder both the dad and elder daugher had GI issues!  :EEK!:  

I agree with you Rick, why wouldn't you melt snow instead of hiking 2 hours to break through the ice?

Ridge Wolf, here is the link to watch the episodes online (no commercials):
http://video.discovery.com/#

Last night's episode was the third.

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## Rick

Aurelius - I think you might be right about the editing. You don't have that kind of family dynamics unless it's been inherent for a long time. And that doesn't suddenly get much better under stress. Just the opposite.

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## crashdive123

I loved the "I'm against guns and killing things" stuff.  Oh wait, this is real life.  If we don't eat, we're gonna die.  Blam, blam, blam.......

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## Rick

You put it so eloquently. "It's so slimy!" fade to kitchen scene where she's cooking rabbit.

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## crashdive123

I liked in episode 2 where she (of the husband wife team) said that she would never look at meat on her plate the same again after they took the sheep.  Just never thought about what it took to get it there.  It would be nice if more people "would think" about what got it there.

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## Omid

man if I had been there I would have survived so easily... they get cabins and rations, fishing poles, guns, knives...

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## nell67

You think it's a game Omid???

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## Aurelius95

> man if I had been there I would have survived so easily... they get cabins and rations, fishing poles, guns, knives...


... like a high hanging curveball that didn't break.  Who's going to hit this one out of the park?

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## crashdive123

Easy?  OK, keep telling yourself that.  Hope you never have to find out for real.

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## Rick

I picture myself at month three gnawing on the fishing pole because all the food is gone. 

So you've got 117 inches of snow on the ground, Omid, (Valdez averages 303 inches. That's 25 feet, by the way. Whittier, about 250 inches.) what are you going to do with your little fishing pole, knife and gun now? They are trying to get stores in for the winter, you know.

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## trax

> ... like a high hanging curveball that didn't break.  Who's going to hit this one out of the park?


I was just tapping my bat on the plate there, Aurelius.

_Omid, are you the bb gun killer from another post or was that some other wonder child on here? Get a map up on your monitor of North America, don't need anything fancy, just something that shows latitude and longitude. Now, start at the 48th parallel or so and start counting north, line by line until you get to where Alaska starts. Keep going Alaska's a big place. Why are you doing this? Well, for one, what the hell else you got to do with your time? But more importantly, all those thousands of square miles of real estate you just marked off are littered with the corpses of people who said "surviving would be so easy". I imagine it gets just as bad counting south, but for different reason. This is why the forum is here Omid. K?_
_Check the posting about that McCandles kid if you think surviving in the wilderness anywhere is a game._
I think that's going over the fence.....

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## Aurelius95

You know, it's not that I think it's a game.  Far from it, but my wife and I were talking about it and feel confident we'd do well in this scenario... until I started seeing all the stuff these teams were going through.  When I first started watching, I thought the wall-tent couple would do pretty well.  Now, it looks like AK is kicking their butt!  Perhaps it's fancy editing (notice the level of "scruff" on the faces changes at times, indicating it's not always chronological), but the experiment is definitely much more difficult than any of them dreamed it would be.

While I would love the opportunity to try living like they are, I think it would be extremely difficult.  Those going into it with a big head and even more grandiose ideas about how "easy" it would be, will probably wind up like Trax mentioned - a corpse.

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## trax

I didn't mean to imply that _you_ thought that way Aurelius, apologies if that's the message I sent out. I was trying to respond to your 'curve ball that doesn't break' which I thought was very well phrased

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## klkak

> Missed the crab bait, Klak. My bad. 
> 
> Instead of expending all that energy tracking the wolf wouldn't they have been much better off doing something different with the meat? I kept thinking they would be out tracking and come home to find a bear had raided their "freezer". They were burning like 4000 calories a day for no reason (you live there so tell me if I'm wrong). 
> 
> I would think a .22 in your hands is just a tad bit different that a .22 in his hands. Just my opinion.


You are not wrong. However I would be keeping a sharp eye out for the wolf while I was looking for more food. The bears in their area should be holding up and not out wandering around.

It's funny to think that I have one of those "Davy Cricket" rifles. I carry it caribou hunting to pop ptarmigan. It's great for that. I did drill the hole in the peepsight larger. It was way to small for hunting.

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## klkak

> You know, it's not that I think it's a game.  Far from it, but my wife and I were talking about it and feel confident we'd do well in this scenario... until I started seeing all the stuff these teams were going through.  When I first started watching, I thought the wall-tent couple would do pretty well.  Now, it looks like AK is kicking their butt!  Perhaps it's fancy editing (notice the level of "scruff" on the faces changes at times, indicating it's not always chronological), but the experiment is definitely much more difficult than any of them dreamed it would be.
> 
> While I would love the opportunity to try living like they are, I think it would be extremely difficult.  Those going into it with a big head and even more grandiose ideas about how "easy" it would be, will probably wind up like Trax mentioned - a corpse.


Alaska does not care whether you live or die. It doesn't care how good or well prepared you are. You can make all the right decision and still die or you can screw up in the worst way and some how survive. Alaska is a place of extremes. One thing I have found in my time here. If you venture into the bush enough you will come "face to face" with your mortality and realize how fine a line you truly walk.

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## canid

rick there's just something about a nice tall meat cache that takes most of those problems right away.

klkak: to me it's the difference between what the .22lr can do and what it will do. don't get me wrong, it's a good and time honoured cartridge but you might not get the twenty chances for that 1 in 20 shot.

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## trax

klkak: That's well worded, and I have to say applies to a lot of places other than Alaska, although having spent most of my life in the north, I can certainly relate.

.22 lr for shooting wolves? Yeah, that'd work, I haven't seen this tv show but I have a sense based on what other members here have posted that the wolf had absolutely nothing to worry about. Personally, I think if you're anywhere in the north and you leave a goat wandering around or staked out in the yard, you're kind of inviting the wolf over for dinner

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## Aurelius95

> I didn't mean to imply that _you_ thought that way Aurelius, apologies if that's the message I sent out. I was trying to respond to your 'curve ball that doesn't break' which I thought was very well phrased


Trax, no worries.  I knew your response was not aimed at me.  I was just admitting my feelings of "over-confidence" perhaps, and realized as much.  I'd still like to try it, but I'd hope to have enough respect of the wilds to survive it.  But like KLKAK said, it may not matter, either way!

 :Smile:

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## klkak

> rick there's just something about a nice tall meat cache that takes most of those problems right away.
> 
> klkak: to me it's the difference between what the .22lr can do and what it will do. don't get me wrong, it's a good and time honored cartridge but you might not get the twenty chances for that 1 in 20 shot.


Canid you are absolutely correct. Sometimes I forget that I was raised with a .22 in my hands so I have a unique confidence in my abilities with it. While others like those on the show have little or no experience. *Everyone please forgive me for this.*

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## klkak

> klkak: That's well worded, and I have to say applies to a lot of places other than Alaska, although having spent most of my life in the north, I can certainly relate.
> 
> .22 lr for shooting wolves? Yeah, that'd work, I haven't seen this TV show but I have a sense based on what other members here have posted that the wolf had absolutely nothing to worry about. Personally, I think if you're anywhere in the north and you leave a goat wandering around or staked out in the yard, you're kind of inviting the wolf over for dinner


Please don't think that I advocate using a .22 for hunting wolves. It is the only weapon they have.

Nope, the wolf has nothing to worry about, I doubt they will ever get a shot at it and I don't see the wolf breaking into the cooler and taking the meat. As the winter progress's I can see how the wolf may become a danger to the man and woman. 

The goat they are referring to is a mountain goat that was killed and butchered and put in the cooler.

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## Sourdough

Remember to put a "TIN" skirt on the legs of that cache.

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## Rick

Klkak - ptarmigan? Can't you just pick them up? They don't even have a brain do they? Don't they survive on cellular instinct? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## klkak

Hmmm...., I've never been able to pick one up unless its been shot first. You can get very close to them though. That why the little Davy crickett with CB .22's work so well.

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## trax

klkak, no worries man, I knew what you meant. I came at it from pretty much the same perspective as you, I've used one for over forty years so I'm pretty sure of my shot.

Rick...don't be fooled my friend, ptarmigan are the psycho killer upland game fowl from hell. 

I have managed to snare them in my day and once I was making a campfire, had my nephew out getting a Christmas tree and I guess we'd settled so close to it's nest that a ptarmigan did the faked broken wing walk past me. My nephew was walkign up with an armload of firewood and said "Hey uncle, look..." The silly bird was limping right past me so I grabbed it and chopped its head off. So, I guess, yeah, sometimes you can just pick them up. LOL, it only happened once.

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## Rick

I'm pretty sure they are dumbest bird every to grace the planet. I've walked past them not three feet away and I guess they thought they were hidden. They just sat there.

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## trax

They're waiting for you to come closer...killers man, they're killers  :Big Grin:

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## klkak

Up here some folks refer to Ptarmigan and Spruce hens as "Stupid chickens". They do make a nice meal.

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## Rick

Are they ninja birds? I've heard that ninja birds will do that. Once you see them they pretend to be stupid. When you get close it's lights out. Or maybe zombie birds. Either way would be pretty bad.

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## canid

yeah, it's not like you can just pick them up, but i bet you could kick them.

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## klkak

It amaze's me the directions some of these threads go.

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## Rick

We're pleased that you are so easily amazed. We haven't even gotten warmed up yet.

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## klkak

I just noticed that I've made over 200 posts. No wonder I'm not getting anything done around the house.

Rick, your place must be a reck!

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## trax

> It amaze's me the directions some of these threads go.


The result of a bunch of people staring at monitors and occassionally looking out at the nearest woods and thinking "I'm supposed to be out there....."

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## nell67

> The result of a bunch of people staring at monitors and occassionally looking out at the nearest woods and thinking "I'm supposed to be out there....."


Yep,thats what I was just thinking too,except my sister is keeping me updated via the web on how her sons surgery is progressing,so I dare not venture too far away today. :Frown:

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## Rick

I just type fast.

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## klkak

ha ha ha......,O......K....,

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## trax

> I just type fast.


Apparently that's true based on some of his comments. I just don't really care if I get fired or not, since I'm sitting at work...I think typing in here makes me look busy to any passers-by, as opposed to staring out the window and humming old Johnny Cash tunes to myself (which makes me look musically challenged  :Embarrassment: )

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## klkak

> Apparently that's true based on some of his comments. I just don't really care if I get fired or not, since I'm sitting at work...I think typing in here makes me look busy to any passers-by, as opposed to staring out the window and humming old Johnny Cash tunes to myself (which makes me look musically challenged )


That gave me a chuckle. I had someone at church ask me to sing a little quieter once. Later I overheard her saying "The man sitting behind me must be tone deaf". After that I sang louder. she has since moved to a different pew. :Big Grin:

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## trax

> That gave me a chuckle. I had someone at church ask me to sing a little quieter once. Later I overheard her saying "The man sitting behind me must be tone deaf". After that I sang louder. she has since moved to a different pew.


I used to work in mines and at the end of the shift I'd always sing in the shower. Of course there's 20 other guys showering in open stalls in the same room. One guy walked up to me one time when I was dressing after and said

"You know, I really can't stand your singing"

I said, " You know, I wasn't singing for you."

Glad you sang louder man.

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## Rick

Hey! I don't get no respect. My wife asked me to sing tenor. Ten or twelve miles away from here. She wanted me to sing solo. So low she couldn't hear me. 

I said, "Look gorgeous, I'm a singer. You know the difference between God and me"? 
She said, "Yea. God doesn't think He's a singer." 
I told her, "I've had it up to my neck with your complaining about my singing." 
She said, "Looks like I need to complain just a bit more." 
She once asked me, "You know what's black and brown and looks good a lousy singer?"
I said, "What sweetest"? 
"A Doberman."

I'm tellin' ya' I don't get no respect.

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## Last Mohican

I just got done watching the 3rd episode of TAE. Beats watching "Survivor". No immunity idols to find, no getting voted off the island, no girls walking around in bikini's. Oh wait, darn, no bikini's, that sucks.

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## canid

unless _voted off the island_ is slang for cannibalized... it's gonna be a long winter and none of them are ready.

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## Last Mohican

The two daughters would cook up real nice.

Plus the b*tch factor would go down about ten notches.

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## crashdive123

For those that are interested, episode 4 airs tonight.

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## Rick

Well, I figured it out in Episode 4. The girls majored in minors in college. "You said two so we thought 1, 2. Then you said three but we didn't know you meant 4." And dad's response to all of it was classic. "They still have to mature." Ya THINK?!" Well, no food and winter is on you. Good luck with that maturity thing. 

Glad the one guy got the goat. It would have been nice to see the other cat get the moose, though. 

For the couple living on the bay, they have bears in their camp daily and they are looking for food. Am I nuts but couldn't they shoot a bear? Hmmm. I suppose that was two questions. Oh, well. Answer which ever one you want. :Stick Out Tongue:

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## klkak

> For the couple living on the bay, they have bears in their camp daily and they are looking for food. Am I nuts but couldn't they shoot a bear? Hmmm. I suppose that was two questions. Oh, well. Answer which ever one you want.


Good point. However a bear that has been feeding on fish is almost not fit to eat. They stink inside and out. The flesh smells and tastes like bad salmon.

I don't think their guide was a very good guide. If they could hear the moose they should have been able to get close enough to kill the moose. Getting close enough to kill a goat is alot harder then getting close enough to a moose.

----------


## Rick

Which is worse, starvation or smelly food? :Big Grin: 

Geeese, Louise this stinks. Did you give me the butt again?

----------


## crashdive123

I was glad to see that one group get the goat.  The guy that shot it seems to have his head on pretty straight.  His friend?????  "I'm tired - you go hunting"  Yeah, that's the kind of attitude I'd want along.

Thought it was kind of funny when they were reviewing the medical tests of the folks.  With the dad and two daughters - dad lost about 20lbs, daugter one lost about 20lbs, daughter two must have hidden the extra jar of peanut butter.

----------


## grundle

I thought the guy that dropped the goat was being a bit of a whiner.  If he didn't have the guide with him he wouldn't have bagged it.  I do have to give him credit for sticking it out and being able to go far enough to get it.

Going out into the bush while you are out of shape and overweight is never a good idea.  It is generally how accidents happen.  You get tired, then get careless and finally make an idiotic mistake that hopefully won't cost you your life.

I think that team has a great mindset though.  He went and grabbed the goat, and meanwhile she was catching fish even though she had never tried before.  Great attitude, I hope they keep it up.

The father daughter team won't make it.  I can't believe that "man" takes so much from those snotty little brats.

----------


## crashdive123

> I thought the guy that dropped the goat was being a bit of a whiner.  If he didn't have the guide with him he wouldn't have bagged it.  I do have to give him credit for sticking it out and being able to go far enough to get it.
> 
> Going out into the bush while you are out of shape and overweight is never a good idea.  It is generally how accidents happen.  You get tired, then get careless and finally make an idiotic mistake that hopefully won't cost you your life.
> 
> I think that team has a great mindset though.  He went and grabbed the goat, and meanwhile she was catching fish even though she had never tried before.  Great attitude, I hope they keep it up.
> 
> The father daughter team won't make it.  I can't believe that "man" takes so much from those snotty little brats.


I think we're talking about two different teams.  Last night the team of three got a goat.  The guy with the dreadlocks went out with the guides son.

----------


## Rick

Crash - I thought the same thing when they called off the weight loss. It was like, wait a minute. How is she staying so healthy. I think if I were that dad I'd be looking for the stash of Ho Ho's.

----------


## grundle

> I think we're talking about two different teams.  Last night the team of three got a goat.  The guy with the dreadlocks went out with the guides son.


oops, I missed last nights episode  :Confused: 

Maybe I can find it online :P

----------


## klkak

> Crash - I thought the same thing when they called off the weight loss. It was like, wait a minute. How is she staying so healthy. I think if I were that dad I'd be looking for the stash of Ho Ho's.


The Ho Ho's are on the new bunkbeds........oops did I just say that?

----------


## grundle

I'm sorry but I can't resist...

The ho ho's are his daughters. ho1 and ho2

><

----------


## crashdive123

Grundle - I think that's what klkak meant.

----------


## grundle

ahhh, a subtle joke.  Well slap me silly, that is what that was.  I'll be darned, guess its too deep for simple folk' like me  :Smile: 

Sorry to tread on your joke klk, I tend to take the high brow stuff and make it low brow

----------


## Rick

Sap shows up in other threads too, doesn't it grundle?

----------


## grundle

I seem to remember leaving a few threads feeling mighty sticky

----------


## Rick

Speaking of bunks beds. Did you catch the comment that "She'll fart on me."? Those girls are classy! Yes, sir, couth with a smidgen of fetchin up thrown in.

----------


## Rick

RE: Your comment in the other thread about sappy jokes.

----------


## klkak

> Sap shows up in other threads too, doesn't it grundle?


Who you call'n a "Sap"?

----------


## Rick

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=2879 Post #3 courtesy of Grundle. :Big Grin:

----------


## grundle

> Speaking of bunks beds. Did you catch the comment that "She'll fart on me."? Those girls are classy! Yes, sir, couth with a smidgen of fetchin up thrown in.


Kansas City only sends Alaska her finest.  Without a doubt they live in Olathe, only people from there act that clueless and idiotic




> http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=2879 Post #3 courtesy of Grundle.


The pleasure is all mine!

----------


## klkak

> http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=2879 Post #3 courtesy of Grundle.


Oh, got it. I'm slow but I do catch on eventually.

----------


## Rick

(snap)(snap) Step it up there KLKAK. We don't wait around for old men. Mush on!

----------


## klkak

(Saluting smartly) Yes Sir! Yes Sir! Right a way Sir!...................._coughwhatevercough_

----------


## klkak

I can hardly wait for next weeks show.

----------


## Aurelius95

Trying to bring things back on topic:  I think it's cool that they send guides to help them hunt the big game, but leave them only a .22 when the guide leaves.  My question is this: is that realistic?  Would you go into the bush with just a .22, with only 1 4-day hunt allowed to get all your meat for the winter?  IMO, I think that you hunt until you get your animal.  Just doesn't seem like it should be part of the "experiment".  

Oh, and did you notice, the husband and wife team finally were bringing buckets of snow to melt instead of hiking all over creation.  And, no word on the "woof" and if it's still hanging around their camp.  (I love how he calls it a "woof" instead of a wolf  :Smile: )

----------


## klkak

During the winter I can be found carrying a .22 most of the time. I carry a heavier caliber when hunting moose, caribou and bear. I use a .22 hornet to hunt black tail in PWS. When I am guiding I carry a 12 guage 870 slug gun and a .44 mag hand gun. I carry these mostly to give the clients peace of mind and something to talk about. So I guess the answer to your question is "yes" it is realistic. Oh and by the way. Don't let me be hungry with a .22 in my hands when I see a moose. I'll be having tenderloins for dinner. (In a survival situation of course) 

The comment you made about having guides to help them hunt big game. It is the law here in Alaska. Outsiders (non-residents) must have a guide to hunt.

----------


## Rick

Don't want any of us lower 48'ers bringing in a cow or someone's dog. :Big Grin:

----------


## Aurelius95

Right, but my question still remains:  If your 4 day hunt failed, would you put up your heavier caliber rifle and forget about big game hunting?  I guess if they cannot have a guide, they have to take the rifle away?  Maybe one of the survival experts taht are off camera ought to be a guide too...  Just my opinion.

----------


## crashdive123

I was wondering the same thing.  They all seemed pretty inexperienced with firearms - don't know if that factored into the equation.

----------


## Rick

Still, a .22 can make you just as dead. 

KLK, can you elaborate a bit more on taking a moose with a .22? That seems waaaaay under powered to me. 

Aren't you AK folks allowed to take two bear per year without permit? And Hopeak didn't you say you could take a moose on an elk permit if you don't find an elk? 

I guess those are mute points for the show but wouldn't they have to have permits to hunt even with a guide even on the show?

----------


## klkak

> Still, a .22 can make you just as dead. 
> 
> KLK, can you elaborate a bit more on taking a moose with a .22? That seems waaaaay under powered to me. 
> 
> Aren't you AK folks allowed to take two bear per year without permit? And Hopeak didn't you say you could take a moose on an elk permit if you don't find an elk? 
> 
> I guess those are mute points for the show but wouldn't they have to have permits to hunt even with a guide even on the show?


A shot with a .22 lr right behind the ear from 50 yards or less will penetrate the brain. 

Depending on what unit you hunt in you can take only one bear or up to 5 bears.

Yes they would have to have permits to hunt even on the show.

I might add that here just like outside, most folks only have a small window of opportunity to hunt. Just like catching salmon. They are only in the creeks for a short period of time.

----------


## Rick

> Depending on what unit you hunt in


Sorry, I don't know what you mean by unit.

----------


## klkak

The state is devided up into 20 some odd hunting units. The seasons and bag limits are different in alot of them.

----------


## Rick

Oh, cool. I appreciate the explanations. I'll bet if you misplace the shot on that moose you would have one P.O.'d moose.

----------


## klkak

> Oh, cool. I appreciate the explanations. I'll bet if you misplace the shot on that moose you would have one P.O.'d moose.


I am sure you would. When I was a kid my mother, sisters and I were very poor. Out of necessity I had to perfect the brain shot with a single shot .22 lr. Now days when I'm hunting Black tail dear in PWS I use a .22 hornet and always take head shots.

----------


## crashdive123

New episode on tonight if you're so inclined to watch.

----------


## Aurelius95

> New episode on tonight if you're so inclined to watch.



should be good.  from the previews, the group of 3 try to visit another cabin 40 miles away.  hmm... let's see what happens.

----------


## crashdive123

The group of 3 - idiots.
Father and daughters - don't know how he puts up with the whinning.
Tent couple - like 'em - go find food.
Married couple - like 'em - get out and enjoy the view.

----------


## Aurelius95

Do you think they were "encouraged" by producers to make the 40 mile hike?  I guess if they got big heads from all their success and hard work, they might think they could do it.  HOWEVER, they'd better give them more than just a map and a couple of dinghys (although the 3 of them were dinghys themselves).  

I think 10 miles a day in unfamiliar terrain is a bit ambitious.  I would have figured on 6-7 days.  It'll be interesting to see how the couple interacts with the 3 next week.

Also, did you notice the look on the the tent couple dude when the dad showed them the indoor toilet with the jar of pee on the ground.  Wonder what he was thinking?  At least the father/daughters were generous with their salmon (it appears) and helped out the tent couple.

----------


## klkak

I can't believe the "3 dinghy's" are trying to make this journey. Remember when the show started? They got lost trying to travel 3 miles to their cabin.

----------


## Aurelius95

> I can't believe the "3 dinghy's" are trying to make this journey. Remember when the show started? They got lost trying to travel 3 miles to their cabin.


LOL klk.  I think that "production" may have had something to do with them making the trip.  Maybe they were that stupid, or felt that with their off-camera survival expert, they really weren't in too much danger.

----------


## klkak

That could be.

----------


## Sourdough

Sure wish I had a TV........I feel so left out of the conversation.

----------


## trax

that was sarcasm right hopeak? I know I don't need to see any tv shows about people humping around in the bush making fools of themselves where I live. I can just hop in my canoe and go watch them live.

----------


## crashdive123

In case you get curious.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/alaska/alaska-week.html

----------


## Sourdough

> that was sarcasm right hopeak? I know I don't need to see any TV shows about people humping around in the bush making fools of themselves where I live. I can just hop in my canoe and go watch them live.


I do not own a TV, and the only way to get reception even form Anchorage stations is by Satellite.

Oddly enough I never, ever see anyone in the Chugach National Forest, Off the Hope Road. Which is a good thing........... :Smile:

----------


## RBB

I've conversed with Dennis Wise (father from KS with 2 daughters), a fellow canoe man, concerning the Alaska Experiment.  Due to a confidentiality agreement, he's not able to say much.  He did say however, that he and his daughters did well during their time spent in Alaska, and that the segments showing him and his daughters arguing are a few bad moments out of three months that were basically harmonious.  The three of them building a snowman together is a much better example of the time they had there. He also said a lot of what you see on the show are attempts by the producers to introduce drama.  If you have enough film to cut and splice - you can make the story say anything you like.

----------


## Aurelius95

RBB, no doubt there is a lot of cutting by the producers.  If they have cameras 24/7, then that's a lot of "down" time.  In reading _One Man's Wilderness_, Dick P. (can't spell last name) fills his journal with what he ate, how he prepared it, etc.  Imagine watching that on TV.... BORING!  It's unfortunate that their family comes off so badly.  But seriously, even if under stress, if I ever spoke to my dad like that I'd have my head handed to me.

----------


## Rick

There are alpha males and then there are alpha males. My father was an alpha who's mere presence commanded much more respect that those gals have shown this guy. Or perhaps I was just too smart not to respect him. Or both. Either way, we had a great relationship.

----------


## RBB

> It's unfortunate that their family comes off so badly.  But seriously, even if under stress, if I ever spoke to my dad like that I'd have my head handed to me.


I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  Every family has its own dynamics.

My family, a bit different.  I sneered at my old man once, when I was about 17.  He threw me down the stairs, launched himself and landed on me.  As I lay there, getting the "snot" kicked out of me, it occurred to me I better change my ways.  We are now best of friends.  Not sure what I was thinking of at age 17.  He hasn't changed.

The one or two times any of my kids have seen fit to be disrespectful - they soon saw the error of their ways as well.  But, as I say, every family is different - and these two girls are of age.  Not much you can do about it then.

----------


## Aurelius95

I think the teaching of respect (or lack there of) occurs when the child is a toddler to young child.  If you don't instill it in them at that point, I think it's pretty much a lost cause.  Right now, I'm trying to correct my son from saying, "huh?", when he doesn't hear me or understand what I meant.  It's now, "excuse me?", or "I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said".  The funny thing is, yesterday at breakfast he informed me (politely) that I responded to one of his questions with, "huh?".  :EEK!: 

You can't just tell them to do what you say, and not do it yourself.  Kids pick up on hypocrisy quicker than adults.

----------


## RBB

Back to the show:  One of the things I've enjoyed most is the move, on the part of several involved, from quasi-vegetarian to meat eaters.  Something about getting down to basics involved there.

----------


## Omid

> I love her comment. "And there's nothing Dad can do."


Spoiled Brats on that show. Alaska is no place for them




> They overexaggerated about the bears


Well thats sort of true, a lot of bears are vegetarians, except during the salmon run.

----------


## crashdive123

> Spoiled Brats on that show. Alaska is no place for them


Where should we send them?

----------


## Aurelius95

> Where should we send them?


France would be a good place to send them.

----------


## crashdive123

Well...they do have some nice whines...um, er, wines there.

----------


## RBB

For those of you, like Hopeak, without a TV - here is a little rundown on the series that I've been doing for another forum:

Alaska Experiment, a "reality" show on Discovery channel.

While shows of this nature don't usually interest me, this one does, maybe because of some tweaks to the premise, perhaps because I'm somewhat familiar with the area. 

Four groups are involved. They each have to journey from two to ten miles, carrying a fair size pack and using map and compass, to their shelter in late summer where they will have to spend three months: 

#1. A married couple from Southern California, she is in great shape, an "adventure racer," and very supportive of her out of shape husband, a concrete contractor. In the first segment, they have to climb the morass of a glacier ten miles to get to their cabin.

#2. Two guys and a girl, friends (forget where they're from), the guys in some form of computer work, and the girl in real estate. They all appear to be fit, but quite ignorant of wilderness - to the point of getting lost within the first three hours and walking in a large circle. It takes them two days to go three miles - also choosing to walk across the last mile of muskeg swamp rather than take a longer route on higher ground. 

#3. An out of shape father in his 50s from Kansas, a retired assembly line worker, with two adult daughters, one soon to be married, and the other in college, both out of shape. The dynamics in this family don't look good. They have the easiest trek to their cabin, down a long sandy beach yet one daughter barely makes it. The daughters spend part of the first day at the cabin consuming vital food while the father is out fishing. Later, they have a huge row over how boots should be stored, showing pettiness on the part of the daughters and the father.

#4. A guy and a girl, not married, but obviously well known to each other. He is a geologist and she is s waste water engineer. Both appear to be fit and have good attitudes. They have to kayak through ice pack to reach their shelter, a large wall tent. They are the only ones to get fish within the first show segment, and are also the only ones to have a grizzly bear encounter, though all groups see scat and tracks.

Each of the parties has a shelter, three cabins and the wall tent. There are a variety of stoves - one much better than the others. Each group has a marginal store of food, high in carbs and low in protein - and they will be expected to supplement their diet by fishing and hunting. Their shelter also has some basic tools, shovel, axe, saw, rifle, fishing rods.

I'm interested to see how this works out. This area has one of the highest concentrations of grizzly bears in the world. Off screen, all parties have a camera man and "survival expert," though where the camera man and "survival expert" are staying is not specified. They surely aren't staying in the cabins or tent, as they are all about 200 square feet. The roll of the "survival expert" is not delineated, so it is unknown how much (if any) advice is given them. Hopefully, he is armed with a shotgun against bear attacks.

Looking forward to seeing how this works out. The second segment is on in a week and it refers to "three" groups. A big part of this will be (I'm sure) mental attitude. Having done some solitary trips (in the distant past), I know it used to take me at least two weeks to toughen up my muscles to the trail and get out of my civilized mode and quit wishing for TV, outside stimulation, and conveniences.
__________________
Week 2:

Watched the second segment. All four groups are still around. Not sure if I misread "three," or what.

Group #1, Man and wife from California, Pierson: He climbs up the mountain with the show's originator and, after an abortive first try - due to weather - shoots a mountain goat. Goat drops 1000 feet after shot. Really bad climbing conditions, for no equipment and carrying rifle - with a lot of loose scree. She comes with part way for the second try and catches several salmon while she waits. Extremely concerned for the health of her husband. This girl, Bernice Pierson, is a gem! Always seems to be up. Always supportive of her husband.

I was wrong about the rifles. There is no rifle in camp. They apparently bring them in by plane as needed. I suppose they figure a cheechako with a firearm in camp is just a bit too much.

Group #2, Two guys and a girl, Wagner, Aujero, and Kung: They spend most of their time cutting (a lot of) wood. Looks like green wood to me. They break their saw. Looks to me like both ends of the log were supported - causing the saw to bind. They fix the saw, but there is tension - and a verbal confrontation - between the two male friends, Wagner and Aujero.

Group #3, Father in 50s with two adult daughters from Kansas - the Family Wise: Petty behaviour continues between the father and two daughters. They appear to accrue the most canned salmon (you have to catch it and can it).

Group #4 Boyfriend/girlfriend from east coast, Frederick and Widmeyer: Going from looking the best, in the first segment, to looking near the bottom of the heap on the second segment, they have a lot of trouble trying to cut wood and manage to have the lids too loose on their canning jars while pressure cooking them and ruin half their salmon. Some of their comments sound pretty discouraging.

I haven't checked the web-site yet. Going to check that now. Seems like these shows air every Tuesday night. Enjoying it enough that I'd hate to miss one.

Looked on the Google map and the area where they are filming is about where I thought it was, about 350 miles from where I lived (not far in AK). It is near the Malaspina Glacier which I remember having pointed out to me (one of the ferries was named the Malaspina) on the way to Anchorage.

Third Show:

One month.

Group 1, Piersons: They've cached their goat meat in a tree. They are concerned about predators, and store it in a metal cooler on the cabin porch. Temps plunge, and they are having a hard time finding water. They finally hike a long distance up the glacier and break through ice to get water. This does not appear reasonable as temps will continue to drop and they need three gallons of water a day. They are concerned about a wolf that keeps hanging around the cabin and Greg Pierson carrys a single shot .22 with him when he is out. Apparently they've been left a .22 rifle. Greg and Bernice take turns shooting so they know the gun is accurate. Bernice is not happy to be shooting, but does not want the wolf to get their meat. 

Group 2, Wagner, Aujero, Kung: They are given a semi-auto .22 and shoot a rabbit and a squirrel. Kung is not happy about the cleaning process. They are all happy to eat the meat, but it is not enough. They sight in the .22, which is shooting to the left, and Aujero gets into an argument with Jasmine Kung about how to do it. He is right, but acts like a jerk about it and stomps off all pissed. They go hunting and see a buffalo and (I think) shoot at it with the .22. This, of course, is not near large enough a round to drop a buffalo. They find a buffalo carcass that is newly dead and still has meat on it. They scavange quite a bit of meat. Bet they wouldn't have done that the first week.

Group 3, Wise Family: Jennifer Wise, elder daughter (I thought she was the younger one until I read the web-site) goes hunting for moose with a guide. Four days hunting, no moose. They set up an indoor privy. Narrator hints this is not a good idea as their privy is right next to the food. When youngest daughter returns from her last day of hunting, father and other daughter are sick with some kind of gastro intestinal illness. At this point they have only the salmon to provide protein.

Group 4: Frederick and Widmeyer see another bear. Frederick and Widmeyer build crab traps, but have disagreements about how far out to set them. Jeff is afraid that if they go too far out in their hip boots, they will get stuck in the mud. They get no crab. Not sure what happened to the kayaks, but they are apparently not an option. Friction between the pair. They have been going together for five months, and he is making her feel small. Jeff Frederick seems to be dealing with a lot of fear. Elizabeth builds a storage cache, a garbage can set in the ground. She also builds an outdoor privy - under a tarp set up along side their tent. Narrator contrasts this favorably with Wise arrangement. Creek overflows and tide comes up almost to the tent. Privy pit collapses and small amount of water gets into cache. Narrator says she's reached her breaking point. Narrator comments they will be hunting moose on next segment.

----------


## RBB

Show Four:

Snow on the ground in higher elevations (Group 1 and Group 2). All groups are seeing significant weight loss.

Group 1, Greg and Bernice Pierson: Bernice falls sick. Narrator makes comments which question the efficacy of their meat storage, hinting, but never stating, that the meat may have become tainted causing Bernice's illness (hate the way the narrator does that). Greg is very concerned and solicitous of her health. He tells her to stay in bed though he is concerned about the amount of work he will have to do alone, but states it is time for him to "step up." He still travels to the creek area for ice. With snow on the ground and the need for a fire in the stove - seems like he could just melt snow in a kettle on the stove and save himself the trek. This would be labor intensive, but probably less so (and less dangerous) than the trek to the creek. Bernice recovers after several days and is shown assisting Greg with chores.

Group 2, Jasmine Kung, Tim Wagner, Alan Ajuro: With their protein intake insufficient, one of them must go hunting for a mountain goat with a guide. As none of them are interested in hunting, they draw cards and the hunt falls to Tim Wagner. He is reluctant. He and the guide set off in a rubber raft in cold weather conditions down a river. He is concerned about being in the small boat in cold water. It is mentioned several times that 90 seconds immersion will lead to hypothermia. This gets quite tiring - as if to say "If you fall in you will die in 90 seconds." Load of crap. He has a very successful hunt, and though he hates gutting the goat, he returns within 24 hours with 100 to 150 pounds of meat. Last scene shows the three of them cooking steaks and enjoying the meat. Kung says she'd planned to become a full time vegetarian upon her return to civilization, but now - maybe not.

Group three: Dennis, Carolyn, and Jennifer Wise: This segment starts out showing them building a drying rack and once again showing argument between the girls and Dennis over how many poles he wants cut. Further footage shows them, cooperating in good spirits, building innovative and practical beds to keep them off the cold floor (If I remember correctly, the Wises have a "boxwood" stove - one of the poorer stoves, not an airtight - and not really sufficient for Alaska winter conditions). Carolyn praises her father's ideas. It also shows a rainwater catchment Dennis has concocted to save labor and provide good water, and the three of them gathering the last berries of the season to make jelly to improve and vary their diet.

Group Four: Jeff Frederick and Elizabeth Widmeyer: Frederick and Widmeyer are shown having better relations. They set off on a four day moose hunt, and come agonizingly close to getting a moose, but are unsuccessful.

Show Five
One Month To Go:

Group 1: Greg and Bernice Pierson: I got a look at their stove. It appears to be a Jotul, or something similar - a very good type of stove to have. Otherwise, Greg and Bernice are not doing well. They are both afraid of wolves and are spending more and more time in the cabin - bringing on cabin fever. Bernice is hearing things, and Greg is having bad dreams, worried about "bad spirits" in the cabin and hallucinates an old woman standing at the foot of his bed.

A lot of people are afraid of wolves. Maybe it is just growing up with them present all the time, but I've always been aware they are more afraid of me than I am of them. A person should never take a wild animal for granted, but wolves would not be of much concern to me. Brown bears, on the other hand, would be a large concern. 

Group 2: Jasmine Kung, Tim Wagner, and Alan Ajero are in the best shape at the beginning of this segment, with lots of meat and firewood. They are so confident, they decided to hike the 40 miles to Greg and Bernice's cabin. They decide it will take four days. They get into a snow storm, while in a river valley, and forge ahead instead of hunkering down. They end up going up the river valley instead of crossing it. It takes them seven days to get to Greg and Bernice's cabin. They run out of food and are 36 hours without water during the worst part of the trek - up the glacier. They hallucinate, believing they are hearing Greg and Bernice singing. As the segment ends, they find the cabin and are greeted by Greg and Bernice.

I just don't know what to think about this. I would never have considered this trek in winter over mountainous terrain I was unfamiliar with. I would have had a lot of rope for crossing the river, and I would have had a kettle to melt snow for water, instead of trying to hydrate by eating snow. Mostly, I just wouldn't have done the trek.

Group 3, Wise Family, Dennis, Carolyn, and Jennifer: Jennifer and Carolyn are fed up with salmon. Dennis loves salmon. The snow, which brings such heartache elsewhere, has Dennis and the girls out enjoying themselves - building a snowman.

Group 4, Jeff Frederick and Elizabeth Widmeyer: Jeff and Liz are in tough shape. They've had no meat for a long time, and each of them, lean to begin with, have lost 15 pounds. They decide to hike down the beach of Icey Bay to the Gulf of Alaska, hoping for a chance at better fishing. The storm hits and they have to camp overnight. The next segment shows them walking up on the Wise family who are down on the beach looking for something to use for a nose, etc, for their snowman. The Wise's greet them warmly and invite them in for something hot to drink and a good meal. Jeff and Liz are impressed with the Wise cabin, which is snug and cozy compared to their tent. Dennis is happy to show off the improvements they've made. Jeff looks askance at Dennis' indoor biffy. Dennis shares his view of the Gulf of Alaska, "Better than church." Jeff and Liz leave in higher spirits than they came.

Once again there are twists and turns, but as Dennis has pointed out - these are just a few minutes out of quite a long segment of time, and are easily manipulated to portray the story line the snow's producers have decided on. As to the indoor biff - we've sure made use of "thunder mugs" in every cabin we've had - over the years - with no ill effects.

----------


## Aurelius95

Very nice recap, RBB.

----------


## crashdive123

Here's your weekly reminder.  Airs tonight.

----------


## Alpine_Sapper

> Here's your weekly reminder.  Airs tonight.


Thanks for the heads up that I should turn the tv off.

----------


## klkak

I can't believe that 5 people are going to stay in that little bitty cabin for the next two weeks. 

The young couple made the right decision to go to the fathers bedside.

I noticed that fat daughter is still fat and while having Thanksgiving dinner the two girls traded hits about loosing weight.

The show started out "Interesting" but the producers killed it with "drama"

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## crashdive123

I wonder if the one daughter is still gaining weight while everybody else is losing.

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## RBB

Still pissed at the lack of sense of Jasmine, Tim, and Alan in heading out through 40 miles of rough country, they were not familiar with, and landing themselves on the Pierson's.  

Shoud be simple enough.  They figure it will take them four days to get there (it took seven).  They take food for eight days.  When half the food is gone - you turn around and go back home.

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## crashdive123

Thought they might all head back to the other cabin since there is plenty of food and wood stocked there.

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## BIG TONE

Love The Show.dvr It Every Week.im Rootin For The 2 On The Glacier.

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## klkak

> Love The Show.dvr It Every Week.im Rootin For The 2 On The Glacier.


I'm very disappointed with the show. It started out OK and then went down hill. I guess I should know better then expecting much from "Outsiders". Especially those under the directions of "Reality TV Producers".

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## RBB

> I'm very disappointed with the show. It started out OK and then went down hill. I guess I should know better then expecting much from "Outsiders". Especially those under the directions of "Reality TV Producers".


I'm sure one of the criteria for being on the show was - can't be from Alaska.  Wouldn't be much drama if the participants actually looked like they knew what they were doing.

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## klkak

Lol, you are probably right.

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## Rick

I've stopped watching it. The concept was actually a very good one and I thought it might portray what individuals and small group dynamics would be like in a quasi survival situation. Alas, drama and ratings took the natural course and the show became a "Survivor" wannabe for me.

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## RBB

I'll keep watching it.  Only one more to go.  I still think it is a better concept than any of the other "reality" shows.  My wife watches "Survivor," which is a show that would make me puke if I actually had to watch an entire episode.  Seems like training in how not to survive in a wilderness situation.

The one thing that absolutely floors me on the Alaska Experiment show is - putting these people off in the brush with no firearms (other than a couple of .22s introduced half way through the show).  Personally, I wouldn't be in that area without a 12 gauge slug gun - or a 7 mm mag.

One other thing I would have done immediately - is set up a fish trap - unless that is now proscribed by law.

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## klkak

> The one thing that absolutely floors me on the Alaska Experiment show is - putting these people off in the brush with no firearms (other than a couple of .22s introduced half way through the show).  Personally, I wouldn't be in that area without a 12 guage slug gun - or a 7 mm mag.
> 
> One other thing I would have done immediately - is set up a fish trap - unless that is now proscribed by law.


You don't really need anything more than a .22 in the winter up here. The bears are denned up and the participants can't hunt big game without a guide so there is not much need for a larger caliber.

As far as making a fish trap. Only certain folks can make and use them.

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## crashdive123

I'm going to finish watching the series.  The initial premise of studying the affects of the 3 month experience on their bodies and minds was kind of interesting to me.  But looks like their focus turned to highlighting some of the personal issues for ratings.  Still overall an interesting show.

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## Rick

I'm with you, RBB on the rest of the shows. I don't watch Survivor in "Anywhere".

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## Ccole420

cant wait to see the new one tonight

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## crashdive123

I don't know how many are still watching.....but here's your weekly reminder.

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## crashdive123

I guess that there is one more episode - kind of a reunion.  Overall it was kind of interesting.  I think that it may be a life changing experience for all of them.  At the minimum it may cause them to appreciate what they have a bit more.  It appeared that the group of 5's biggest obstacle on the way out was the cold.  For those of you that live in regions where the temp regularly dips below -20 F, what are some of the precautions that you take when "out in it".  And for those of you that live more or less off grid, what do you do?

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## Aurelius95

It'll be interesting to get their perspective at the "reunion" show.  At -20, don't you think you'd want mittens instead of gloves?

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## RBB

> I guess that there is one more episode - kind of a reunion.  Overall it was kind of interesting.  I think that it may be a life changing experience for all of them.  At the minimum it may cause them to appreciate what they have a bit more.  It appeared that the group of 5's biggest obstacle on the way out was the cold.  For those of you that live in regions where the temp regularly dips below -20 F, what are some of the precautions that you take when "out in it".  And for those of you that live more or less off grid, what do you do?


For the group traveling down the glacier - I would have started earlier - taken it slower - and I definitely would have slept at night.  Lack of sleep can really drain you, and there are ways to make it warm enough to sleep - if only in short cat-naps.   You need your sleep.

Precautions:  Loose layered clothing - nothing that binds - wools and breathable fabrics preferred - same for foot wear - though they had flight-line boots (Micky Mouse boots  - not "bunny boots" though that is what Wagner called them.  Bunny boots are similar looking , but completely made of felt - and have a very slippery sole.  Micky boots - nothing better for warmth - though damp as they are rubber inside and out.  

Warm hands under your arm-pit, skin to skin.  Watch each other for frost-bite on the face.  Carefully rub white spots with hand - skin to skin.  Don't travel to the point of exhaustion. Watch for sweating - sweat in cold conditions is a killer. Long hauls and long stops - if you can manage it.  Remove your pack, build a fire and and get completely rejuvenated.   

And yes - gloves are nice for driving in your car.  Minus 20 - they are almost worse than nothing.  Give me a good pair of choppers every time.  Choppers with one or two pair of knit wool liners are very good.

http://www.henrysshoerepair.com/

http://item.express.ebay.com/Party-S...mdZExpressItem

US Military extreme cold weather mitts are good too.

http://store.colemans.com/cart/extre...ers-p-757.html

Some of the best cold weather boots available - at a very reasonable price for used boots - are Canadian military extreme cold weather mukluks, AKA Rabers boots.  They have the best liners you can get in a cold weather boot,  made of two layers of fulled Hudson Bay blanket,  A relatively light weight boot, very warm, and lets your foot move and breath:

http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/pro...n%20MukWt&ST=2

I did enjoy the show, and I bet none of them will ever forget it.

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## crashdive123

Thanks for taking the time to post and research tha RBB.

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## klkak

> I guess that there is one more episode - kind of a reunion.  Overall it was kind of interesting.  I think that it may be a life changing experience for all of them.  At the minimum it may cause them to appreciate what they have a bit more.  It appeared that the group of 5's biggest obstacle on the way out was the cold.  For those of you that live in regions where the temp regularly dips below -20 F, what are some of the precautions that you take when "out in it".  And for those of you that live more or less off grid, what do you do?


When I venture out at that temp or colder I dress in multiple layers. If I am exerting, I start shedding clothes so I don't start sweating. I also wear glove liners, Light gloves and Mittens. As for boots I wear Lacrosse 2000 gram thinsulate knee boots. I doubt if I would have carried a pack as big and heavy as those folks had. Some food, Water, Sleeping bag, Sleeping pad and possibly a change of clothes. My secret weapon for starting fires at that temp is a pocket sized butane torch.

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## Rick

How do you carry water at that temp?

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## RBB

> How do you carry water at that temp?


I use one of these.

http://cgi.ebay.com/U-S-canteen-Extr...QQcmdZViewItem

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## klkak

I carry my water inside my clothes next to my skin. I have a water bottle similar to a "bota".

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## crashdive123

Final episode tonight.

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## Rick

(Standing ovation) Bravo!! (heavy applause).

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## klkak

I'm going to sign up for the "Alaska Experiment II"  :Big Grin:

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## RBB

Well, I signed up for it.  Not sure how serious I am about it.  Be interesting to see if there is any response.

If it actually came down to it - not sure who I could get to come with me.  Maybe my brother.  He retired last year and is living in Tanzania, but he's always up for an adventure.

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## klkak

Maybe if we get picked we could recruit a couple guys from here.

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## RBB

> Maybe if we get picked we could recruit a couple guys from here.


Not sure - maybe.  Best would be someone you already know.  First thing would be someone you could get along with.  Not interested in being with a bunch of type A personalities - butting heads.  Second would be someone who could work hard for long hours and enjoy it (in my experience, that would be almost everyone I met in Alaska - and damn few where I live now).

Got a charge out of one of the captains on the Deadliest Catch show on the Discovery channel.  He said something like, "I like working at a job where I can work just as hard as I like and there's no one telling me to stop."

Best for me would be my brothers.  All of our head butting was over years ago.  We all have areas of expertise, and none of us trying to tell the others how to get it done.

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## Beo

I'm with RBB Klkak, you want someone you know, hard to tell who is talk here and who knows what to do in the wilds. And having someone you don't know who thinks they know everything would suc bad and accomplish nothing but making your time hard and twice as much work for you instead of sharing the load. while there are some people on here I would take into the wilds, we have some who I personally would not as their posts make no sense or are non-workable in woods by what they say and still others just find their info on the net and post it here.
Anyway good luck if you get it.

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## klkak

Good points. Would be kinda like what we talked about in another thread. "Group dynamics"

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## klkak

I doubt they will pick someone from Alaska to be in a show about surviving in Alaska.

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## RBB

> I doubt they will pick someone from Alaska to be in a show about surviving in Alaska.


Truth is, doing a show on someone from Alaska - who really knew what they were doing - would be  a lot more likely to be boring.  They'd probably know just what was important - and how to go about it - and how to do it with the least fuss.  They would recognize the dangers and do their best not to get involved in anything hazardous.

Not that anyone couldn't get in trouble, it would just be less likely - and therefore - not good television.

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## klkak

You are probably right.

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## crashdive123

> I doubt they will pick someone from Alaska to be in a show about surviving in Alaska.


Tell em you manage the local car wash in Miami.  Be sure to ask - do they have a Starbucks where this is going on.....you'll be a shoe in.

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## Beo

Tell them your visiting your dear grandpa or an old friend and that place is creepier than your roach infested apartment in New York City.

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