# General > General Chat >  Fake Military Claims Among Us

## Rick

I have wondered about one of our members for some time and after receiving some anonymous information I've done a little digging. It seems that Skip Hall's claims of being former Special Forces and having served in Viet Nam are not true. He served as a clerk/typist in Korea. If this is in error Skip you have my apologies but the evidence is sure stacked against you. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_Hall_%28MMA%29

http://www.military.com/news/article...uestioned.html

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...t=33162&page=1

Here is Skip's Profile Page on this site: 

Ex-5th SF SOG A Team Ldr; Vietnam
Korea 2nd Infantry QRF Team Leader
DoD Contractor SF Unit in Middle East
Commercial Rated Instr Pilot
FBI & NRA Firearms Instructor
Red Cross Instructor/Combat Medic
Law Enforcement Officer
Ex-IBM Nat'l Sales/Marketing Mgr
Electrical Engineer
Ex-Oldest Active MMA Fighter in the World (Now Retired)
Etc.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...6312-skip-hall

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Well...I'll be........Look at this! I just claimed to be a bad sss Cowboy...Boy you sure got some "splainin' to do!

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## Sarge47

Just ran an IP check, he's supposed to be in Alabama, but his IP is out of New York!   :No:

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## crashdive123

Before he receives a forum crucifixion - let's let him explain things.

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## LowKey

I doubt that'll happen.

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## crashdive123

Time will tell.

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## rwc1969

I have to wonder how many people on the internet are who they say they are. But, honestly, I could care less one way or the other.

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## doug1980

Could be like my neighbor.  He was an X-Ray tech in the A.F and deployed with my wife's friend.  He tried to tell me he deployed with Army SF doing convoys.  He then changed his story and said he deployed with A.F EOD.  However, the truth came out when I told him my wife's friend deployed with him and worked along side of him.  Before all that he claimed he was in the Army before he joined the A.F, he's 25 and did 6 years in the A.F, where he was SF and was awarded the Bronze Star.  I asked to see the Bronze Star and he gave me the excuse of it being folded in an American Flag.  It's sad really, that some people feel the need to portray themselves as some bad a$$.  Everyone I know that was a true bad a$$ never bragged about, why, because those that are capable of such actions have a different moral fiber than those that aren't capable.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

Doug, that would mean everybody here that brags about thier service is lieing about it? That can't be right. It does cast a shadow of doubt on people making such claims and that is a pity.

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## rebel

Don't be so naive. Liars are everywhere.

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## glockcop

This profile looks like the resume for "The most interesting man in the world".....Stay thirsty my friends. hahahahaha!

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## Skinner

Hell I Got As Far a The Pre Physical.The Recruiter Set me to Do to the Way I Walk. Not Telling them Anything They told Me Everything I Broke .Broken Back /To Fake Knees /2 Head Inguries and Pins In My Left Wrist and a 1 in. Bracket In My Right Cheek Bone and Broken Jaw . Man that Doc Was Good . And I Had My Life Planned All for Military. Got the Big Denied .

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## woodsman86

Thanks Rick, it is good to see he will not receive undue credit for his lack of intestinal fortitude and moral compass. People of this caliber do not understand what it means to be a War Veteran and the sacrifices made to earn such a title. There are a lot of vets on this site and very few who post their entire "extensive" resume, that should be a good indicator. Be proud of what you did and not what you wish you did, there is no shame in honorable service.

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## 1stimestar

Claiming unearned rank is illegal.

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## Winnie

> Claiming unearned rank is illegal.



Yup, over here too. A guy went to prison last year for claiming Army service he never carried out. Wore the medals, marched in Veterans Parades and Remembrance Honour Guard  the whole shebang. Got what he deserved.

However, this member should be given the chance to explain himself.

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## Pal334

It is such a shame when folks think they have to do tis kind of thing

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## crashdive123

This case has been reported to http://www.stolenvalor.com/ for investigation.

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## Trabitha

I don't know who this man is, and have yet to talk to him...BUT I know that in my husbands situation most of what he did has yet to be declassified and isn't even listed on the DD214 that we get for benefits.  He's not gotten many of his metals because of this also.  I know for a fact that he's not lying about what he did in the military, as I was with him when picking up a copy of his DD214 years ago, and we were shown the screen shot of the gentleman helping us.  The employee was confused to see the print out come out very basic with no mention of what he REALLY did, listing him only as a cop...while he saw it all on the computer.

Just sayin'...in many cases you CAN'T look up what people actually did because it's not released and may never BE released...

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> I don't know who this man is, and have yet to talk to him...BUT I know that in my husbands situation most of what he did has yet to be declassified and isn't even listed on the DD214 that we get for benefits.  He's not gotten many of his metals because of this also.  I know for a fact that he's not lying about what he did in the military, as I was with him when picking up a copy of his DD214 years ago, and we were shown the screen shot of the gentleman helping us.  The employee was confused to see the print out come out very basic with no mention of what he REALLY did, listing him only as a cop...while he saw it all on the computer.
> 
> Just sayin'...in many cases you CAN'T look up what people actually did because it's not released and may never BE released...


 This is true. Not all things show on your DD214. Even though I know I did training with and received Both British and Honduran Jump wings( Appear the same as our Marine Jump wings, and the soldiers had to pay for the wings they presented us on the DZ in the exchange ceremony), No where does it say in my military record that this is true. I know this happened, can tell you things about both places that I would otherwise have no knowledge of, but can't prove in any shape, manner or fashion. I have more jumps than they recorded, but I never kept a jump log so can't refute that either. A school I attended and received the recognition of "Distinguished Honor Grad" also does not appear on my records, I even received a plaque from the NCO Assn. for that. However no proof (That I'm aware of) exists.

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## rwc1969

Regardless, let's not forget that, according to the OP, he indeed did serve our country.

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## Winter

> Regardless, let's not forget that, according to the OP, he indeed did serve our country.


Posing nullifies and/or negates that service.

The Skip Hall guys profile stuff is pretty suspicious. However, stolen valor, as far as the law is concerned, is only prosecuted if someone made personal gains from their false claims.

It is not illegal to be a lying POS, it is illegal to wear rank, qualification badges, or articles of insignia you have not earned.

Military posers are everywhere.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> This is true. Not all things show on your DD214. Even though I know I did training with and received Both British and Honduran Jump wings( Appear the same as our Marine Jump wings, and the soldiers had to pay for the wings they presented us on the DZ in the exchange ceremony), No where does it say in my military record that this is true. I know this happened, can tell you things about both places that I would otherwise have no knowledge of, but can't prove in any shape, manner or fashion. I have more jumps than they recorded, but I never kept a jump log so can't refute that either. A school I attended and received the recognition of "Distinguished Honor Grad" also does not appear on my records, I even received a plaque from the NCO Assn. for that. However no proof (That I'm aware of) exists.





> Posing nullifies and/or negates that service.
> 
> The Skip Hall guys profile stuff is pretty suspicious. However, stolen valor, as far as the law is concerned, is only prosecuted if someone made personal gains from their false claims.
> 
> It is not illegal to be a lying POS, *it is illegal to wear rank, qualification badges, or articles of insignia you have not earned*.
> 
> Military posers are everywhere.


 Please note what I have said in the above post. Even though I had completed the required training, I had NO PROOF whatsoever to authorize my wearing of those Jump wings. I was even "Called on it" in my last unit, and told to NOT wear the insignia any longer. When I earned my British Jump wings, it was not in England, but in Scotland, just outside of Edinburgh. I also got to attend the "Military Tattoo" while I was there Which would be around September IIRC. I saw my very first Hard Core "Punk Rockers" while there. Spiked Mohawks, oversized Earrings and exotic dress. This was around '81-'82. Regardless of what you may have heard, not everything you do in the military is recorded and kept on file. Everyone in my Airborne Units knew I had completed the required training, but when I went to a Non- Airborne Unit, No one believed it NOR Could they find any proof that I had done these things. Also not all the info is accurate either.

 For example I'll list the badges/awards etc from my DD214. Army service ribbon//overseas service ribbon 2d award//expert badge with m-16 rifle bar//Army Commendation medal// Army Good conduct medal 3d award//parachutist badge///////////sharpshooter badge with hand grenade bar//nothing follows.

No mention of my Distinguished Honor Grad is on my DD214, Nor is the two foreign jump wings and also missing is an Army Achievement award 2d award. So even assuming that he were to provide a copy of his DD214, Some info could be omitted. Why these are missing from my DD214 is anyone's guess. According to my DD214 the only school I attended while in service "Basic Airborne, 3 weeks January 1979///Nothing follows" No mention of the advanced Indirect Fire Infantryman's school I got DHG for at Ft. Bragg.

Basically all a DD214 is good for, is to show when you served, Some awards, and schools you may have attended, and some info may be omitted or not recorded at all. Now IF the person in question actually went through the "Q" course or not, who knows? One thing I DO know, is that a LOT of information is missing from MY DD214. Stuff I KNOW I did, but have NO WAY of proving...at all.

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## Sarge47

> ...Military posers are everywhere.


   Well there was this one time I was in the 'Nam with Martin Sheen on a gun boat.  Charlie was all around us but we had to keep going 'cuz Marlon Brando had gone rouge; he forgot that he was the Godfather 'er some crap!   Oh...wait...that was the movie:  "Apocalypse Now!"  I used to drink a lot & do drugs so reality is somewhat blurred man!   :Sad:

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## Trabitha

Gotta say...
This discussion and many like it all over the web...look a lot like a modern day "witch hunt".  All because of what really amounts to a handful of liars.  I think before people lash out, call names or imply guilt...they have to have more proof.  I think Pocomoonskyeyes3 and I have already pointed out how hard it is to prove service in many cases.  That doesn't mean that the service didn't exist...it means it's clearly no one's business for a reason.

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## Rick

Poco, you should ask for your AARTS Transcript through the National Archives. All of your training should be listed there even if it's not on your DD-214. You'll need to forward them a copy of your DD-214 (don't send the original!!!). You can contact them at: 

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/

Here is some information on AARTS: 

http://aarts.army.mil/

As to Skip, his DD-214 should list his specialty number and title. If, as many have said, he was 71-B (clerk/typist) then I doubt he was special forces. His DD-214 would probably be an 18 series especially if he was a team leader.

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## crashdive123

> No mention of my Distinguished Honor Grad is on my DD214, Nor is the two foreign jump wings and also missing is an Army Achievement award 2d award. So even assuming that he were to provide a copy of his DD214, Some info could be omitted. Why these are missing from my DD214 is anyone's guess. According to my DD214 the only school I attended while in service "Basic Airborne, 3 weeks January 1979///Nothing follows" No mention of the advanced Indirect Fire Infantryman's school I got DHG for at Ft. Bragg.
> 
> Basically all a DD214 is good for, is to show when you served, Some awards, and schools you may have attended, and some info may be omitted or not recorded at all. Now IF the person in question actually went through the "Q" course or not, who knows? One thing I DO know, is that a LOT of information is missing from MY DD214. Stuff I KNOW I did, but have NO WAY of proving...at all.


Poco - TDY assignments (I assume you were assigned to those schools on a temporary duty assignment) will not appear on a DD-214.  Additionally, it is the responsibility of every service member that is leaving the service to verify the accuracy of their DD-214.  I did it every time I re-enlisted, and upon my retirement.  I did find omissions that were easily corrected at the time.  Some things of a classified nature will not appear, nor should they.  Heck - the level of security clearance I held (above TS) is not even listed.  Just part of the job.

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## crashdive123

> Gotta say...
> This discussion and many like it all over the web...look a lot like a modern day "witch hunt".  All because of what really amounts to a handful of liars.  I think before people lash out, call names or imply guilt...they have to have more proof.  I think Pocomoonskyeyes3 and I have already pointed out how hard it is to prove service in many cases.  That doesn't mean that the service didn't exist...it means it's clearly no one's business for a reason.


The questions are valid.  They were posted as a resume enhancement (and rightfully so if true) for his site and the information he brings to the table.  This presumably means that he is profiting from that resume.  He elected to make his resume public, not us - so I say again, that the questions are valid.  I also believe that he deserves the time to answer the questions posed before he is attacked (see quote below).




> Before he receives a forum crucifixion - let's let him explain things.

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## mosquitomountainman

Good thing he posted a profile and introduction so we know all about him!

I know that not every MOS I worked in is on my DD-214.  Lots of info. regarding my primary MOS is not included in "official" records.  Not that there's anything exotic about my military service to begin with.  I just did my job(s) and "retired" when my enlistment was up.  It would be nice to hear his side of the issue _before_ he stands in front of the firing squad.  Wouldn't you want people to hold judgment until you had a chance to explain yourself?

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> Poco, you should ask for your AARTS Transcript through the National Archives. All of your training should be listed there even if it's not on your DD-214. You'll need to forward them a copy of your DD-214 (don't send the original!!!). You can contact them at: 
> 
> http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/


 Rick, I doubt it is there at all. Even when I was in they couldn't find evidence of the wings OR The advanced course I graduated DHG from. I will say this though, if it weren't for that course I doubt seriously I would have gotten the ARCOM or "Cheese" medal (Achievement medal). It was the advanced learning from that course specifically that actually allowed me to perform well.

Quite honestly, it's NOT that important. I know what Really happened. It's not going to help me in any capacity here in the real world. Anyone who doesn't believe it can worry about it. It's over, in the past, And all the achievements I have done and $5 will get me a meal at Subway. For any benefits it will get me, a roll of toilet paper is more valuable in that respect. The only thing it is good for is to say I served, other than that...???? I have NEVER shown it anywhere.  Really my Soc. Sec. card is better than my DD214, for all the good it does. There is no need for 11C2P mos in civilian world. My Original copy of my 214 is on file in my County Courthouse where I was discharged to. Other than a document of record for my descendants it is for all intents and purposes, useless. Just another Document to keep track of. Sad Huh?

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## finallyME

Your DD214 isn't completely useless.  I used mine for my VA home loan.  I also list my achievements on my resume when looking for a job.  Although to me, and probably most military personal, my achievements don't mean much.  But to my prospective employer, it means I wasn't a moron and got kicked out or something.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> Your DD214 isn't completely useless.  I used mine for my VA home loan.  I also list my achievements on my resume when looking for a job.  Although to me, and probably most military personal, my achievements don't mean much.  But to my prospective employer, it means I wasn't a moron and got kicked out or something.


 As far as any of the things you listed, sorry it's useless. I'll never get a VA Loan after learning all the things they can make you do to your property AND charge you for it, or revoke your loan.(someone I know had one for a home, they made him put a new roof on, even though the roof was still good. He said no. They said yes, or else. He said no again, then they had someone come and put a new roof on, as the Loan had already gone through) Also it's not really a "loan" from the VA. It's just a Guarantee from the VA to a bank, saying you will pay the loan or they will assume control(Foreclose) and then pay the bank. When I did try to get a house on the VA loan, they would never approve those I wanted or could afford. As for my job qualifications all they care about on the jobs I'm eligible for, is a strong back and weak mind. The only reason they care about my Vet status is so they can show it in their EEO paperwork. So yeah, it is worth more to employers than to me. But they have NEVER asked to see it, and some questions regarding your service are illegal to even ask if phrased even a wee bit wrong(like type of discharge), So most employers(that I've applied with) only ask if you are a Vet and leave it at that. Then they ask the military (MILPERCEN I believe) if it's true. YMMV but that's my experience with my DD214. In 21 years no one has ever asked to see it other than the Real Estate Agent. I didn't have it on me, so THEY got a copy of it for their records. I never did use my loan either.

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## Nutman

Not really unusual for military dicharges to eliminate info some missions just simply did not happen

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## doug1980

I never even got my DD214.  I got a Certificate of Honorable Service, but still no 214.  I've been trying to get mine for 2 years now with no luck.  I would like to use it for my 10% discount at Home Depot and Lowes.  :Smile:

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## hunter63

I'll just wait and see how Skip handles all this, if he does.........Didn't really agree with his review on the 'tackical .22 in the firearms section, that he used on ....missions......But hey, what do I know.

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## JPGreco

The punishment for falsely presenting one's self as a soldier of any branch should be a firing squad of getting kicked in the nuts.  10 people line up to give you one solid punt.  Then you get fined.

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## Winter

I have schools that are not on my dd214, but I have orders for any MOS changes. Same as when you get promotion orders. All awards come with a set of orders.

Poco, you should have orders for your foreign wings. You should also have the foriegn JM's listed on your jump log. If you don't have this stuff, YOU dropped the ball. Sorry but that's what it is.

All of this is besides the point. Mr Hall claims to be something so he has the burden of proof. I belong to a couple military forums and if you come in and say "I was this and that", and someone questions you, it is your duty to provide proof.




> Not really unusual for military dicharges to eliminate info some missions just simply did not happen


BS. If you share a story on a mission that is still classified, you are a felon. Missions are not listed any in personnel records unless you received awards for it.

We have busted posers who have said "well, that mission was top secret so there's no records" Right, but you still got a pay stub during that time period that states exactly what unit you were with and your rank.

*It's simple, do not claim what you can't prove.* If you earned it, you can get it back. I know a guy who was awarded a CIB for an 80's korea gunfight. He petitioned for it and got it in last yr. Another guy got his orders for a bronze star in 2009 that he earned in 1970 working with the ARVN Army.

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## Winter

Doug, you need to get that ASAP, the longer you wait the harder it will be to do.

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## prb

Gents,
It is up to the soldier to make sure hiss DD214 has the correct info, not the clerk typist that copies it from your form 2-1.  If you brought in your orders it would be on there.  You don't just go to the "Q" course, it is an MOS producing school and your MOS's are all on your DD214.  Honor Grad, in any course, is stated on the Diploma not your DD214 that indicates attendance and completion.  Foreign jump wings are now put on DD214's (as are foreign awards) since the mid 90's.
This junk about super secret stuff not being released has nothing to do with DD214's....if Mr.Hall had been in SF (He has not) no SF soldier would ever allow some clerk to not include his primary MOS's and all of the SF schools attended.  Overseas service and combat service is noted specifically for VA requirements....no matter if it was special operations oriented or not it is noted as no indication of mission is listed ergo there is no classification to DD214's.  Mr.Halls DD214 indicates one tour in Korea as a clerk typist...no Vietnam service...no SF schools/MOS's or affiliation.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> Gents,
> It is up to the soldier to make sure hiss DD214 has the correct info, not the clerk typist that copies it from your form 2-1.  If you brought in your orders it would be on there.  You don't just go to the "Q" course, it is an MOS producing school and your MOS's are all on your DD214.  Honor Grad, in any course, is stated on the Diploma not your DD214 that indicates attendance and completion.  Foreign jump wings are now put on DD214's (as are foreign awards) since the mid 90's.


 OK so how would I go about getting those things verified. I got out In Jan '89. I was only an 11c2P NOT SF. The Advanced Indirect Fire infantryman's course was only offered at Ft. Bragg to the best of my knowledge. I never heard of it at any other Post or location. It was in the buildings on the other side of the road from "The Stockade" but closer towards where the road came out from the street that all the 82nd brigades were on. (Sorry but road names escape me).It was taught by a retired SF soldier, who REALLY knew his stuff. I would also doubt that there would be any proof that I completed JSIIDS training. (Joint Services Interior Intrusion Detection System) That might be useful if I were to look for a job with a security organization. Boring job really, sit at Brigade HQ and monitor the system. Every time a C-130 flew over low it would go off. They were going to replace it because of that.... still might be useful for job Apps.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

On a more positive note, this thread has been good for one thing at least. Turns out Old GI and I were at the same place, same time In a remote location, on an exercise but never met.(Many PM's to figure that out!) That just blows me away! I can just hear that Disney song "It's a small world after all" LOL

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## Trabitha

> Gents,
> It is up to the soldier to make sure hiss DD214 has the correct info, not the clerk typist that copies it from your form 2-1.  If you brought in your orders it would be on there.  You don't just go to the "Q" course, it is an MOS producing school and your MOS's are all on your DD214.  Honor Grad, in any course, is stated on the Diploma not your DD214 that indicates attendance and completion.  Foreign jump wings are now put on DD214's (as are foreign awards) since the mid 90's.
> This junk about super secret stuff not being released has nothing to do with DD214's....if Mr.Hall had been in SF (He has not) no SF soldier would ever allow some clerk to not include his primary MOS's and all of the SF schools attended.  Overseas service and combat service is noted specifically for VA requirements....no matter if it was special operations oriented or not it is noted as no indication of mission is listed ergo there is no classification to DD214's.  Mr.Halls DD214 indicates one tour in Korea as a clerk typist...no Vietnam service...no SF schools/MOS's or affiliation.


I'm sorry, but you're wrong.  There's simply no polite way to put it.  I saw the computer screen with MULTIPLE things that my husband did and there was nothing on the DD214 printout to verify that.  Even medals that he earned and will never see until these missions are declassified, but because of where they were, they will never be declassified.  If you didn't do anything that is still classified, I can understand why you don't know this.  Now...if I didn't translate what you said, please feel free to correct me.  :Wink:

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## Winter

Trabitha, I don't think you understood what he said. PRB restated many of what I stated. Super secret missions are not part of your personel record UNLESS you have an award for the mission.
The soldier is solely responsible for his records being accurately kept. 
The DD214 and what used to be called a 201 file are upgraded yearly. Troops go and sit in front of a bunch of paperwork types and ensure the records are accurate and that physicals and qualifications are up to date.

For retirement purposes a good NCO will make damn sure that his and his subordinates save all records, including pay stubs.

I do know a few vets that tossed all that crap when they PCS'ed. Usually to their regret.

I'll offer to help and put anyone in contact with the right people to acquire lost awards, badges, etc. PM me and I'll work it.

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## prb

Tabitha. I don't claim to know everything but I do know this.  In Skips case all awards and decorations from RVN were put on DD214's.  If an SF soldier was awarded a Silver Star for action in Laos/Cambodia (an unauthorised area of operations) the award cert said it was awarded for actions "West of Dak To Rep. of Vietnam" but they were included in the DD214.
I'm a retired Special Forces Command Sergeant Major and was the SWTG (SF Schoolhouse Group) CSM from '96 to '98 and yes I've been involved in classified operations and all of my awards are in my DD214 and that is from 3 conflicts.  99.9% of all 'it's so secret" I have no record of it is pure crap.  Have your husband get on the http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/index.php net and we can discuss it once he's vetted as we have all service spec ops personnel there so it's no problem to vet.  I'm wondering why you have a clearance to view a classified form 2-1 or ORB of an individual in a classified unit.  Those docs are only handled by their in house personnel and are not for public viewing.  So you are in the service and handle classified form 2-1's?

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## prb

My last resp was 'held by the Mods' so I'll try again.  In Mr Halls case all awards for SF in RVN were posted to your DD214.  If the award was for laos or Cambodia (both denied areas) the award would read "For actions West of Dak To Rep.of Vietnam".  99.9% of al 'it's so secret I have no docs whatsover' are simply lies...soldiers know there are always some docs.
Tabitha, I am a ret SF CSM and was the SWTG CSM from 96 to 98 so I do know about MOS's on DD214's and award postings.
A question for you.  I know that those units that reg do classified opns have clerks to keep their ind records straight and these clerks have secret and TS clearances to prepare promotion packets, retirement DD214's etc.  So for you to see a 'screen' with your hubby's TS material you are a serviceperson with a TS clearance?

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## Sarge47

I don't care, I never trusted him.  His profile picture looked to me like it came off of a Scotch ad!  Maybe even a movie poster.  Maybe he's a fan of Army Ranger Dick...er...uh...Rick.  Anyway, it was *prb* who blew the whistle on him with a link to another forum.  Then even more forums seem to be cropping up that are blowing Mr. Hall's cover.   So what?  We once had a member on here that claimed to be a former Sergent of the French Marine Commandos; however that couldn't be proved one way or the other...& no one seemed to care anyway.  BTW, why hasn't the brave Vet come on here by now to clear his good name?  Is he afraid of a firefight?  He was around plenty before when he was busy making posts   :Cool2:

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## prb

As a final note on Mr.Hall (unless he'd like to publicly discuss this) I'll say that 'we' (active/retired) SF do not go after a poser unless they are going public in a big way with their lies or making money due to their fraudulent identity theft.  We don't go to the Legion to bust a drunk telling bogus war stories.  We care because they misrepresent our Regiment and those that serve presently and in the past.  Our reputation, and those that died making it, will not be impugned by imposters selling 'woof tickets' to any and all who will listen to them.  Mr. Hall used his supposed SF experience to sell himself as an investigator and other scams.  We had the same issue with William G. Hillar claiming to be a ret SF Col. and selling his expertise to Universities and Law enforcement (no, people don't actually check) until we 'outed' him and he recently pleaded guilty to Fraud in a Federal Court.  Mr. Hall please google that name and take note.

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## BENESSE

Thank you for your service and vigilance, prb.

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## FVR

In the USMC it is the form NAVMC 118.  This form will show all schools and training that the Marine has completed.  It's probably been revised as my form is from 1989.   I found that posers always are snipers, recon, seals, etc.  A few questions and you will usually realize that the guy is b-sing you.

Military.com is a good place to start.  If you really want to get the goods, request it from Uncle Sam.  It's called some kind of freedom act.  I've done this for many Vietnam, WWII, and Korea Marines and Corpsman.  It's free and pretty easy.  Good place to start is Togetherweserved.  They have directions and can walk you through it.  I did it for rememberance profiles.

It's like immortalizing those who fought before us.  I did however stop as it started to get a bit depressing.  The good thing is when you get an email from a relative giving you updated infor or thanking you for doing the legwork.

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## woodsman86

Just to help clear up some speculation of regulation. For credibility, I am a former Infantryman and current active duty Human Resource Sergeant. I run a S1 Personnel Section which processes awards and records for the Special Troops Battalion and Brigade Staff of my unit. 

For the question of "it is so classified I can't have the award"

Reference AR 600-8-22 Paragraph 3-19, Military Awards
http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_22.pdf




> k. When an award recommendation contains classified information, no classified information will be entered on the DA Form 638. Supporting and allied documents will bear a security classification and/or protective markings. The packet will be prepared, processed and protected according to AR 3805. Proposed and approved citations will be prepared so as to contain no classified information.


During my time in the Infantry we often would conduct cordons for the spec ops unit in our area in Iraq and at times had Soldiers receive awards for actions during those missions. It would arrive as a "blanket" recommendation and approved citation. Once approved it does not matter the content of the award as long as you do not receive multiple awards for the same action or time period. Most likely the approval authority is familiar with the mission and has been briefed on the reason for such an award.

From my experience working with some field grade SF officers on our Brigade Special Transition Team, their records are quite up-to-date. Nothing on the ORB (Officer Records Brief; old 2-1) would give any indication to the actual location of the missions they have conducted but simply the theater of command they operated under. All the systems in the last 10 years or so has been electronic and things like the DD214 are produced using the ORB/ERB as the source document. 

Now any time a Soldier is assigned to a unit it automatically produces an action within the Emilpo system and is populated on the ORB/ERB. As for deployments, my ERB says I was deployed to Iraq from April '07-June '08 and Sep'09-Aug'10, it doesn't say that I lived in Baghdad or Baqubah or any other place I went while I was there. I have seen a lot of different deployment locations on ORB/ERB, many places I didn't know we even operated in. I have yet to come across any award, school, deployment, or assignment that could not be updated in a Soldier's records.

I hope some of this helps and if anybody has any questions related to records and such, I am willing to help to best of my abilities. Many school houses and such have archives of records. As far as foreign wings and such, try contacting the former unit it was earned under. The older units may still have records going back to the start. I know a friend of mine worked at the Fort Lewis museum on his way out and was sorting trainee records from 50 years ago and sending it off to the national archives. So something that was not there 10 years ago may be in your record at the archives now.

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## woodsman86

> My last resp was 'held by the Mods' so I'll try again.  In Mr Halls case all awards for SF in RVN were posted to your DD214.  If the award was for laos or Cambodia (both denied areas) the award would read "For actions West of Dak To Rep.of Vietnam".  99.9% of al 'it's so secret I have no docs whatsover' are simply lies...soldiers know there are always some docs.
> Tabitha, I am a ret SF CSM and was the SWTG CSM from 96 to 98 so I do know about MOS's on DD214's and award postings.
> A question for you.  I know that those units that reg do classified opns have clerks to keep their ind records straight and these clerks have secret and TS clearances to prepare promotion packets, retirement DD214's etc.  So for you to see a 'screen' with your hubby's TS material you are a serviceperson with a TS clearance?



I just wanted to add something to the seeing Secret or TS material on a computer. All Secret and TS material is transferred through a SIPR (the unsecure system is referred to as NIPR) computer which outside of a combat zone is held within the security of a vault, yes literally an office inside a vault. Soldier's records are not stored on a Secret or TS system, it is stored on the good ol' internet where I can even work from my home computer to do updates at night.

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## Old GI

prb:  I PMd you.  We may know each other; we certainly know many people in common.

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## Ole WV Coot

Ha kinda funny. I thought at least up to 65 or so every man that didn't have a student S-II if I'm correct got the "greetings from the president" letter. I got several but was already working for him in a draft exempt job plus me and a couple of other fools got drunk and decided to enlist in the air force. Did the whole bit except signing or swearing to anything and forgot about it. After I got my 3rd notice, first went to KY records were transfered to DC. Another letter, pulled off the bus not all records came. Free ride to Baltimore and two sandwiches. Govt supervisor wrote that I was taken, didn't make it before the next draft letter so another trip to G St. I got mad and told them could I just volunteer, the wife was going crazy wondering if I was going or not. I was told I couldn't volunteer for the draft I had volunteered for the air force. This really sounds stupid and I could go on and tell you by the time our son was born the two priests broke into the draft board on G St. in DC and dumped chicken blood and burned a few records, mine naturally. I was a lost ball in tall weeds so I reckon I am classified as 1-A, drafted, volunteered, draft exempt. In my short time working for Uncle Sam I realized they could screw up a two car funeral. This is a true story, shortened some but I was kinda like the Eveready Bunny, I just kept going and going until I finally got past the magic 35. Never thought to tell them I had a wife and son, didn't know that made me exempt then. One big mess and I saw plenty of "action" working nights in DC, NYC, Baltimore. I haven't picked up the mail today, may have another draft notice.

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## aflineman

> OK so how would I go about getting those things verified. I got out In Jan '89. I was only an 11c2P NOT SF. The Advanced Indirect Fire infantryman's course was only offered at Ft. Bragg to the best of my knowledge. I never heard of it at any other Post or location. It was in the buildings on the other side of the road from "The Stockade" but closer towards where the road came out from the street that all the 82nd brigades were on. (Sorry but road names escape me).It was taught by a retired SF soldier, who REALLY knew his stuff. I would also doubt that there would be any proof that *I completed JSIIDS training. (Joint Services Interior Intrusion Detection System)* That might be useful if I were to look for a job with a security organization. Boring job really, sit at Brigade HQ and monitor the system. Every time a C-130 flew over low it would go off. They were going to replace it because of that.... still might be useful for job Apps.


I really, really hated that system.  :Cursing:  :Censored:  :angermanagement:

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## DrewtheFungophile

People who have served, especially in times of conflict, mention it in passing, People who have never served brag and inflate their rank..They are the liars

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## ElevenBravo

Hell, I was just a National Guard flunkie, never jumped from a plane and never fired a shot in anger.

But, I was 11B from Benning, Harmony Church and I stuck around long enough to retire, and I was willing to fire a shot in anger but was never deployed.

Shortly after I got out, my unit did in fact go to Iraq and some came back with scars... not all physical.  

I wish I could have been there to serve by there side, but in some way I was spared the ordeal.  Soldier's guilt I guess you call it, I do realize I have no control over who goes when and it is, what it is.

EB

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## ElevenBravo

Flame on... I just did CPR on a 3 yr old thread.

Sigh.

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## Tokwan

Maybe someone needs to pm him or call him and get him to explain?

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## BENESSE

> Maybe someone needs to pm him or call him and get him to explain?


We're well past that. 
Besides, if he wanted to explain, he would have done it by now. The world is full of insecure people who need to make $hit up to feel better about themselves. Can't indulge them all.

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## wilderness medic

> Flame on... I just did CPR on a 3 yr old thread.
> 
> Sigh.


Maybe appropriate topic considering all the fake claims on the news/Youtube lately





> Hell, I was just a National Guard flunkie, never jumped from a plane and never fired a shot in anger.
> 
> But, I was 11B from Benning, Harmony Church and I stuck around long enough to retire, and I was willing to fire a shot in anger but was never deployed.
> 
> Shortly after I got out, my unit did in fact go to Iraq and some came back with scars... not all physical.  
> 
> I wish I could have been there to serve by there side, but in some way I was spared the ordeal.  Soldier's guilt I guess you call it, I do realize I have no control over who goes when and it is, what it is.
> 
> EB


You were willing to fire a shot. That's what countsdon't know why so many feel the need to not just play up stories but downright make events up.taste of some sort of glory I guess. Someone willing to do something with a good heart and intent that didn't is way higher than someone with ill intent that did in my eyes. 

The survivors guilt really sucks. Still can nag at you despite accepting you have no control over when who goes or why.

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## BENESSE

> The survivors guilt really sucks. Still can nag at you despite accepting you have no control over when who goes or why.


Here's a way to deal with it: get out there and volunteer and help any way you can. Make surviving count.

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## wilderness medic

> Here's a way to deal with it: get out there and volunteer and help any way you can. Make surviving count.


I try as much as I canvolunteer fire departmentsearch and rescue...school...helping neighbors and friends as much as I canspend more money than I should on other peopleNever does it seem to feel like you're going to completely fulfill someones ultimate price.

But you are right When I get that feeling, a good fire calleven if it's just a public assist to help an old lady up some stairs or something smallreally feels like one step closer. For a minute.

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## BENESSE

> I try as much as I canvolunteer fire departmentsearch and rescue...school...helping neighbors and friends as much as I canspend more money than I should on other peopleNever does it seem to feel like you're going to completely fulfill someones ultimate price.
> 
> But you are right When I get that feeling, a good fire calleven if it's just a public assist to help an old lady up some stairs or something smallreally feels like one step closer. For a minute.


Keep doing it, it adds up. At some point you'll realize there's a reason you survived and it wasn't an accident. But only if you make it so. 
Don't waste it, live it.

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## ElevenBravo

> You were willing to fire a shot. That's what counts


I am still willing... wont expand on the forum, but Im ready too...  A million screaming Chineese coming across the border, MZBs in the lawn or the "zombie apocalypses"..  whatever trash needs to be taken to the curb, I have no reserves.

Like I have said before, I want to go out the same way I came in, screaming and crying covered in someone else's blood.

Living without willing too die for something aint really living, its existing.

:-)


EB

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## BENESSE

> Like I have said before, I want to go out the same way I came in, screaming and crying covered in someone else's blood.
> :-)
> EB


Hey, whatever floats your boat. 
Me, I'm less ambitious. Not embarassed to die in my sleep.

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## Arctic Fox

Honestly, I don't really care how I do, though I would prefer if I didn't end up on Darwin Awards :Lol:

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## ElevenBravo

Well Benesse, I say it as a motivational... not as a rule to die (?) by.  If push come to shove, go for it.

Otherwise, in peace time... I totally agree.  Passing in my sleep, would be my most preferred method!!

EB

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## WolfVanZandt

At 61, I've had quite enough excitement, thank you. I'm more of the "The unexamined life is not worth living," clan.

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## Tokwan

61???? Gosh you look 49!

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## Rick

Not me. I plan to go out at 101 at the hands of a jealous lover.

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## Wildthang

I am a little concerned that we would check into a guys personal life! There are literally millions of posers on the internet and if I have doubt i simply ignore them.
I don't agree with posing as military or making false claims, it is wrong. But does it justify us digging into someones personal life and records?
For some reason I find this a little disturbing!

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## BENESSE

> Not me. I plan to go out at 101 *at the hands of a jealous lover*.


It'll be closer to tripping on your own hong.

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## BENESSE

> I am a little concerned that we would check into a guys personal life! There are literally millions of posers on the internet and if I have doubt i simply ignore them.
> I don't agree with posing as military or making false claims, it is wrong. *But does it justify us digging into someones personal life and records?*
> For some reason I find this a little disturbing!


It's all out anyway...and he probably put it out there. Be careful what you share, it can come back to bite you.

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## Grizz123

> I am a little concerned that we would check into a guys personal life! There are literally millions of posers on the internet and if I have doubt i simply ignore them.
> I don't agree with posing as military or making false claims, it is wrong. But does it justify us digging into someones personal life and records?
> For some reason I find this a little disturbing!


In this case the person made some statements that initiated the investigation, so I have no problem with it.

If someone was checking just to be nosy, I would warn about where you put your nose, it could get rearranged

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## Lamewolf

Does this mean you folks won't believe me when I tell you I'm old, broken down, worn out, arthritic, hypertensive, but good looking as hell ? :Sweatdrop:

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## Lamewolf

> I am a little concerned that we would check into a guys personal life! There are literally millions of posers on the internet and if I have doubt i simply ignore them.
> I don't agree with posing as military or making false claims, it is wrong. But does it justify us digging into someones personal life and records?
> For some reason I find this a little disturbing!


I feel the same way, besides - you can tell if someone is just boasting as they seem to pat themselves on the back every chance they get if they feel the need to build themselves up and impress folks !  I know one guy like that and he has been kicked off several forums in the past, not because he is always building himself up although he does, its because he is also abrasive to others in the process.  Its pretty easy to pick those types out !

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## Rick

> But does it justify us digging into someones personal life and records? For some reason I find this a little disturbing!


No one dug into his personal life or checked his records. It wasn't necessary. Everything was readily available on this site and on the internet. Others have pulled his information from DOD via the Freedom of Information Act. But no one here did.

When someone comes on here and makes a blatantly false claim of any kind it makes any information they post suspect. No one should rely on the incorrect postings of someone based on the fact they said they were something they were not. In Skip's case, one might lend credence to survival information given his purported strong background in special forces and his purported extensive deployments around the world. The fact that he lied about his service gives folks a heads up that he might not be as knowledgeable as he lets on to be. The fact that he didn't bother to challenge the post and has not come back stands for itself.

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## Rick

> It'll be closer to tripping on your own hong.




Yeah, well, there's that too.

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## WolfVanZandt

I'm a member of an offline community that new members seek entrance by checking online. We also use the Internet as an information source. Just like you use this forum as a resource. We also draw posers who are very dissatisfied with their own lives. I can think of two big ways that posers do considerable damage to online members of a community.

If a newbie wants information, for instance to know how to handle depression, they need reliable information from people who know what they're talking about. Many posers act as if they have experience (which they don't) and give copious advice. I would imagine that a poser giving advice about survival issues when they don't know what they're talking about could be a little dangerous.

There have also been several times when a person showed up with another's name and started breaking down their reputation.

Hopefully, no offense is given, but I rarely regard people I know on the Internet as anything other than cyber-entities until I actually meet them face to face - because there is literally no way for me to establish who I'm talking to.

Having lived the first third of my life outside the computer era, and being a person with a very loose relationship with verbal language to start with, it is still (and, I imagine, will always be) very creepy for me to develop relationships with people I've never seen face-to-face. Ideas such as "Internet community" are oxymorons to me. People even talk about others they only know via the Internet as "girlfriends", "boyfriends", and "mates". Maybe I'm just old, but that really worries me.

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## Old GI

Speaking of JSIIDS, when I commanded a company in the 101st (1977), JSIIDS was just being installed.  It was a fiasco from the start and didn't get much better.  The policy we received was, if it is inop (which was most of the time), place a guard with a baseball bat on your arms room.  Just wonderful, if someone wants to break in your arms room and just have to contend with a young soldier and his baseball bat.





> I really, really hated that system.

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## ElevenBravo

Checking public records is one thing, common information is... common.

No one went so far as to get his physical address, DOB or SSN.  Though, with more effort.. and maybe help, that too could be acquired, if needed.

So, no sweat.

EB

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## tjwilhelm

I thought I'd try to add a tad of levity to this otherwise depressing thread.  I'd like to share my "veteran" credentials, just for fun and full disclosure...

I was not considered a veteran until so ordered by the Federal courts in 1988.  I was a Merchant Mariner.

I served in the Great Lakes Fleet in the engine room of the steamer D.M.Clemson.  As stupid as it may sound, my formal, two-part title was Coal Passer and Wiper.  As the Coal Passer I worked for the Fireman.  As the Wiper I worked for the Oiler.  During watch I ingested so much coal dust that between watches, while sitting in the head, I manifested both of my titles performing personal duties -- Coal Passer and Wiper!

The ship's cook was an alcoholic, but alcohol was strictly prohibited on board ship.  Thus, I had all the lemon merengue pie I could eat.  Lemon extract has a pretty fair alcohol content.  Whenever the grocery boat delivered supplies, we off-loaded cases full of lemon extract...drink a bottle, make a pie, drink a bottle, make a pie.  We always had lemon merengue pie, 3 meals per day.

The greatest danger I ever face as a Merchant Mariner was being taken ashore by my elder shipmates, to celebrate my 20th birthday.  They dragged me off to Horseface Mary's Saloon, near the Chicago south slip.  The last thing I remember from that night was a lady of color, wearing a platinum-blonde wig, sitting on my lap, helping me to slosh down hard liquor.  I have no clue how the evening proceeded from there; but, I was pretty hung over the next day.

There you have it-- no poser here!  HA!

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## Rick

There is probably good money to be made for anyone with pictures of that night. Aren't you glad cell phone cameras weren't around back then?

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## Tokwan

I tot I have a few pictures...let me see where I kept them...the sight is not pleasant...muahahahahahahahahahaha...

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## WolfVanZandt

Boy, T.J., that brings back memories. I was on a lay barge in the Gulf of Mexico for two seasons - felt like half my life.

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