# Prepping / Emergency Preparedness > Bags, Kits and Vehicles >  Waterproof Backpacks

## Davidlastink

Thinking of putting together a pack system using:


aqua-quest wetpack.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Quest-Mar...proof+Backpack

and

alps pack frame.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00

Any one have any experience or thoughts?

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## hunter63

Have several of the dry bags in different sizes...usually carry in canoe,...... portages just pick up a carry to next put in.

Haven't really considered long distance carry...but I'm sure the pack frame would certainly help.

Is there a reason for a water proof other than the obvious?

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## 1stimestar

Depends on what you are using it for.  If you truly need a dry bag because you are going to be in a canoe or raft, then get the top kind.  I may just be used to Alaskan pricing but that one seems pretty cheap.  If you just need a rain cover for your backpack as a backpacker, they sell rain covers for back packing.  I'm not sure what you are asking because you are comparing apples and oranges.

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## TXyakr

It depends on your application and budget and the level of comfort you desire etc.

If you are just hauling your gear from canoe/raft up a hill a few hundred yards or less to your campsite then a frameless bag with shoulder straps like in first link is fine I have several of different sizes like that with roll tops. They work just fine, also I have some dry bags with out straps just put in a mesh bag (type used for practice balls sports) throw over my shoulder and carry up the hill. This works well with small dry bags crammed into hull/hatch of sea kayak. I put most of my dry bags in canvas bags to protect them from wear before I throw them in back of pickup or trailer for long trips across the country so I can get may years of life out of them.

Many years ago NRS came out with the Paragon pack that had a more comfortable frame with a dry bag that custom fit it retails for $100 but you should be able to find for $70 or less. Currently it appears they are pink, but a few years ago they were blue.
http://www.nrs.com/product/2933/nrs-paragon-pack

A far more comfortable and versatile option but for much more money is the "Epic" from ULA equipment they really stand behind their gear, see some great youtube video about how multi-purpose these are. You could cross streams that are chest deep in water and not worry about your clothes and sleep gear getting wet if you had a quality roll top dry bag paired with this. Most importantly it is very light and comfortable!

http://www.ula-equipment.com/product_p/epic.htm

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## TXyakr

Skip to minute 15:30 see this guy hauling his kid in this ULA Epic pack and a firearm covering his six...




He demonstrates a wide range of options, very entertaining.

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## natertot

I just use a regular pack. If something needs to be protected from water, then I place the item into a dry bag and put the dry bag into the pack. This is pretty much clothing, sleeping bag, maybe an electronic or two.

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## kyratshooter

A pack to carry on ones back, in the rain???

Good luck with that.

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## 1stimestar

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## pete lynch

I have small dry bags including the fold-roll-buckle kind and the heavy duty ziplock-type made by LokSak.
I have a couple pack covers and a trash bag to line the pack.
Can't see spending a lot on the other stuff just to keep things dry.
I also have one of those Snugpack ponchos that fits over the whole setup, including the person.

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## Rick

Dry bags and pack covers. I actually don't mind hiking in the rain as long as it's not a torrential downpour. As long as you have the right clothing it's not bad.

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## TXyakr

I agree a little rain never hurt anyone best to be prepared for it. However if it is many hours or days of thunderstorms might be best to just find a good enough camp site and wait it out. I have learned to prefer multiple small roll top dry bags over just one big one. In extreme humidity of a thunderstorm everytime you open one it becomes a moist bag. My canoe/kayak friends just call them moist bags. In the old days 1950's? when folks packed gear in garbage bags these were either known as splash bags or bags full of water. I have a photo somewhere of me with a large ground pad wrapped in a black garbage bag just to keep the stilty river water off, it was strapped to the back of a small sea kayak. Sleeping pads dry off fast.
If your trail is blocked by a flooded creek also just best to camp for an extra day or two and wait it out but in extreme situations a large dry bag or multiple smaller ones can be used to get you and gear across. In my region some creeks flood for a month or more, and bridges wash out so good luck with staying dry. Well if you and you ice chest are never more than 10 yards from you vehicle like Kyratshooter you probably will stay plenty  warm and dry. lol

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## finallyME

Yes, a dry bag on an external frame will work.  I have done that many times.  But, those two options are probably your heaviest.  That pack frame is designed to carry a dead animal out of the woods on.  So, it is overbuilt.  So, I guess, what everyone else is saying is that it depends on what you really NEED.  I generally NEED my clothes and sleeping bag to be in a dry bag.  The rest of my gear doesn't need to be waterproof.  So, I put my clothes and sleeping bag in a plastic sack inside my pack and put the rest of my stuff in the pack, but outside the dry bag.  A poncho (or pack cover) will keep the pack dry in rain.

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## hunter63

I guess I can't remember plastic garbage bags in the 1950's.....????

But agree that the garbage bags and zip locks are on the top of the list necessity in todays packing.

I do like the smaller bags as well, dry or otherwise....as I don't have to dig out what ever I need for the bottom of a big bag.

Like the big mesh bag idea.... for keeping smaller bags corralled.......Fantastic idea.
Thanks
I could use the big decoy bags...Hummmmm

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## Davidlastink

I plan on taking the system hunting and also rafting/ kayaking.

That ULA frame u posted the vids on is pretty slick TX, thanks for those vids. I had seen some other ones similar and didn't really feel they would cross over for hunting and hauling game out well. As for the Large Dry bag with the way I set up my bags now, all in separate color coded dry sacks, I can easily rummage through and grab the specific set of gear I am looking for just by color. I just figured on a large dry bag since I could just shove my clothes and blankets in and not have to worry so much about rain covers etc. The times I ever used rain covers water ended up sloshing down my back and then seeping into my pack, and thus I just would end up tossing my pack on under my poncho, which is a bit uncomfortable/ awkward imo.

went ahead and ordered up both will play with them when they arrive and see if I like the feel/fit.

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## TXyakr

That sounds like a good plan Davidlastink. I have never found a perfect system for all or even most trips, just methods that work well enough. One friend even puts his folding chair in a very long NRS dry bag then in his canoe which seemed strange to me but I guess he did not want to wait for it to dry out or let it get silty. I put my waterproof camera in a small dry bag and strap it on the front of my kayak for rivers like the Rio Chama (NM) and San Juan (Utah) which have a lot of very fine sediment that messes up the lens and gets everywhere. Standing waves go completely over me and kayak in those rapids.

If you can find some fairly multipurpose gear it helps to reduce your gear storage and keeps down gear costs. ULA packs are very expensive but also low weight and fairly comfortable if you get one that fits your body size. I imagine you could pack out a small/medium animal or quarter of an elk on an Epic ULA, best to wrap in a game bag first, I would prefer a hard frame however.

A friend of mine from MN told me he used garbage bags on many canoe trips when he was younger back in the 1960-70s. He is about 65 years old today. Most people that I know used ammo boxes for small items and large aluminum or plastic boxes with gasket lids, perhaps canvas bags treated to be water resistant back before that. When he told me he used garbage bags in a canoe with cold nights, I was like "Really??"

I have had eVent brand dry bag soak through a bit when it was sitting in water for 8+ hours on a day it rained non-stop and the cockpit kept filling up with water. Flat water river in a sea kayak without a cockpit skirt. (I just don't have good enough looking knees to wear a skirt... joke.) But I packed a quick-dry pair of pants on the bottom below my sleep bag and it took up all the moisture, I slept dry that night.

Edit: These eVent compression dry sacks are fairly useful for sleep bags but DO NOT let them sit in standing water for very long, more than a minute or two! Several hours and your bag will most likely get moist or wet, that was my experience.
http://www.rei.com/product/730882/se...cm_mmc:cse_PLA

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## Davidlastink

Yeah I prefer solid frame also. And for the most part almost every "dry" bag I have used has been more of a "moist" bag. Kinda liek those waterproof windbreakers that really don't do much in keeping the rain out. I would probably get the Ula is it was sub $100 but thats a tough price point for the sake of lightness when weight isn't the biggest concern for me atm.

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## Wise Old Owl

> I just use a regular pack. If something needs to be protected from water, then I place the item into a dry bag and put the dry bag into the pack. This is pretty much clothing, sleeping bag, maybe an electronic or two.



+1 in agreement - There is not a good reason for a pack cover other than changing appearance or camo. Dry bag your down sleeping bag. Micro fiber or polycro your hunting or backpacking clothes and you are water proof - period. If you really want to keep it light and water proof a 20 gallon garbage bag will work nowadays.

If it is sealed the pack becomes a survival float when the backpack is on backwards for fording rivers.

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## TXyakr

Backpacking light has had many discussion on this over the years here is one:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...hread_id=19600

I agree with those that say that a garbage or compactor bag is very easily torn on brush, and also traps a lot of moisture because it does not breath as well as a quality pack cover and is not as easy to remove and put back on in pouring rain when you need to get something.

Also eVent and similar dry bags/sacks are much easier to evacuate the air from than many dry bags and especially a garbage bag. Sleeping in a wet bag in sub-freezing weather is something few people repeat, but most will tell the story of repeatedly.

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## Davidlastink

I am in total agreement when it comes to going light there are many better options. But for me this seems to fit the bill. I got several trainings and work trips coming up over the next few months but I hope to field test this thing sometime in the early fall before it gets uncomfortably cold. That one ULA vid shows a aftermarket Dry bag, so I feel confident with this one. I have only done the bathtub test but it seems to be working.

My biggest gripe with light weight systems is that unless you are spending $1000+ you end up with that I'm missing out/ I can do better feeling. The perfectionist in my looks at the $350 down sleeping bag and goes "I need that!" the dad/family man laughs and runs through the list of school gear/supplies / ballet / karate etc. costs and shakes his head. It would be nice to have the water I'm carrying make up 90% of my gear weight though.

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## Wise Old Owl

> Backpacking light has had many discussion on this over the years here is one:
> 
> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...hread_id=19600
> 
> I agree with those that say that a garbage or compactor bag is very easily torn on brush, and also traps a lot of moisture because it does not breath as well as a quality pack cover and is not as easy to remove and put back on in pouring rain when you need to get something.
> 
> Also eVent and similar dry bags/sacks are much easier to evacuate the air from than many dry bags and especially a garbage bag. Sleeping in a wet bag in sub-freezing weather is something few people repeat, but most will tell the story of repeatedly.


Wait trash bag would be torn after whatever tore into the pack. Trash bags today puncture resistant and placed on the inside.... and I dont want it to breathe. I want it to be water tight and odor tight. I have forded streams this way and it survives a dunking. And now we have dry down bags that are water resistant.

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## Rick

There's nothing scientific about that. They give all the chicken mites inside the bag a life preserver.

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## hunter63

Life preservers on the chicken mites?.....Well, I'll be dipped....

Anyone ever try plucking your own "down"?...So you can make your own "down filled gear"...?
With the buggies mite/fleas, lice????.... crawling around on the duck/goose/chicken/turkey/crow.......while plucking?

I have heard you have to leave it awhile, they will bail off like ticks off a dead deer....

Never seem like it worked of me......put then feathers in a bag and waited...still there in a couple of days......
Maybe spray?......Hummmmm

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## jdbushcraft

Maybe scald in boiling water then pluck?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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## hunter63

They did the back stroke.....LOL. 
Have used the boiling water on chickens from time to time.....and honestly did seem to cut down on bugs, but feathers were like a wet mop....never did dry them out again.

I sure there is some traditional method of doing it......cleaning feathers that is.

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## jdbushcraft

Yeah.  I've only plucked ducks and we didn't save the feathers.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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## Davidlastink

I'd imagine a bit of Diatomaceous earth tossed in / rubbed on would do the trick, Or a lavender and distilled water spritz.

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## TXyakr

If you look into the indepth independent research that has been done on hydrophobic down (various brand names such as dri down) you will learn that the process to create its coating has made it resist initial water saturation but once it becomes wet it still looses its loft and thus its insulation and takes a very long time to dry out.
It is a free world do whatever you want. But for myself I want a bag that has a good seal on the opening and high puncture resistance (pull bag out set on ground there can be many sharp rocks and sticks, and repeated use, long trip, the best garbage bag allows your finger to pop through) when I am in a very cold and wet environment, especially if I am traveling in an open canoe though rapids. If night time temperatures are well below freezing and rain and snow can last for days a few extra dollars is insignificant to me. Just my personal opinion based on real world experience, in northern Canada and many parts of the USA.

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## Wise Old Owl

> Wait trash bag would be torn after whatever tore into the pack. Trash bags today puncture resistant and placed on the inside.... and I dont want it to breathe. I want it to be water tight and odor tight. I have forded streams this way and it survives a dunking. And now we have dry down bags that are water resistant.



Am I out on a limb here? Just asking.....Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## druid

Dry bags are nice but are extra gear to manage [as well as cart around]. I do have my old CFP-90 for long hikes/trips but for short trips, I use a canvas haversack and pouch [think "Nessmuk" style].

For bags that you make or aren't waterproof, use my recipe:

Need:

Metal can with lid [unused paint can from Lowes or Home Depot]
1 lb pure [and filtered] beeswax
8 oz boiled linseed oil
8 oz turpentine
Clean paint stirrer

triple the recipe to fill a gallon can.

You can fill smaller cans [like a big shoe polish can] while it's in liquid form to have some for "on the go."

How:

Melt the wax in the can and add the measured BLO and Turpentine. Remove from heat and stir until solid.

To use, spread onto leather, canvas/fabric or unfinished wood. It spreads like a partially dried chapstick. You can melt it down and apply with a paintbrush as well.

Once it's on the item, use a heat gun on LOW or a hot hair dryer on high and heat the compound until it is absorbed into the material. It will get "sucked in" to the inner fibers of cloth and leather and not leave a funky residue on the surface. For wood and leather, polish with a cotton tee shirt or microcloth.

Finished. It's now waterproof. On heavy use items, you can redo it once a year or as-needed. For wood handles [axes, etc] I'd sand the finish off to bare wood and apply it twice. Eventually the item will no longer "take" the compound.

You will get a light turpentine smell...leave it out in the open air for a few days and it will go away.

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## TXyakr

> Am I out on a limb here? Just asking.....


Over the last few years several people and independent labs have tested Sierra Design's rather ambiguous claims about their product "Dri Down" as well at other similar products; you can Google for reviews and also search Youtube and find many. Here is one very short video. I have watch some much longer ones and tested both sleep bags and jackets on my own and come to the same or similar conclusion myself. Test it out yourself.




Basically the difference between a "Risk" and a "Gamble" is that you can safely back out of a "Risk" but not a "Gamble". I.e. if you pack your down of whatever type in a compactor or very strong garbage bag and it fails and you are only a few miles (<10 from your vehicle) you can walk out, that is an acceptable risk for most. But if you are on a long multi day hike/trek and your dry bag/sack fails and it is raining and super humid for days with almost no way to dry out your saturated sleep bag and/or jacket sitting by a fire for days and nights on end it may be a "Gamble" that ends your life. You will not be the first who lost that gamble.

I can post more independent, must longer and boring videos, with more scientific tests with complex impressive agitators if you have difficulty finding them...

But if you are only car camping in a state park it doesn't really matter.

I have many different sleep bags, one is nominally rated at 0F, a synthetic TNF bag. It does not compress very small but is fine for canoe trips during the winter. Fits in a large dry bag, Sometimes I double bag it because I have had even very high quality dry bags fail. Once a friend laughed at me for this. I just told him the Risk/Gamble thing and said someday he would understand if he trekked far enough and wilderness camped enough... and lived to tell about it... He quit laughing.

Edit: Zpacks has been a very well respected vendor of lightweight gear for long distance backpackers for a long time, they offered hydrophobic down as a standard option for their bags until recently after they decided it was not a significant advantage. I am guessing some people put too much faith in it and go into trouble; inexperienced newbies often do:

http://www.zpacks.com/quilts/twinquilt.shtml

"900 Fill Power Water Resistant Down: 

Water resistant down is just normal down that is washed with a water resistant treatment by the factory. In theory this treatment makes the down take longer to wet out, and may retain a little bit less water after being soaked, however real world results are hard to observe. The down still wets out after a while and you still need to be careful to keep your bag dry. I personally think that the benefits are very minor. We have also noticed that the treated down can be more clingy and can take more work to break apart clumps and fluff the bag up, which could result in cold spots if the bag isn't fluffed well.

It is for this reason that we have decided to streamline our production and discontinue WR down as a standard option as of November 2014."

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## TXyakr

Watch this video:




Hydrophobic down is NOT a revolution that no longer requires the use of a good rain jacket over a down jacket or high quality dry bag/sack over a down sleep bag. This extra water repellant treatment is an improvement over the natural ability of down to repel water but it is not as dramatic as some marketing hype may lead some people to believe. NOT just my opinion but that of many many other people with hundreds and thousand of hours of experience over several years now. The evidence is in. Protect your gear and it will protect you!

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## Wise Old Owl

Without a doubt this is interesting as I have not seen that video before. Yes I have watched a bunch of videos as I am sure you did. About ten years ago a rain coat appeared at  Men's Wearhouse and it was hydrophobic. Based off the hull of the America's cup sailing paint. They are simply adding extra electrons at a microscopic level and making it stick to an object, with other molecules. You should see the odd stuff they are doing to Surgery rooms to kill mold & viruses. Its a Mono Spike, passed thru an electron energizing gun, my office owns one, and we did use it at a local university bio lab. Looks like something off of Star Trek, sorry was not allowed to take a picture.

After reviewing the video I have to ask when is a mummy bag or jacket going to be exposed to 212° degrees in normal wear and tear?

I don't own one yet - but I am considering it.

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## Davidlastink

If I remember correctly sopping wet wool still keeps you warm. Granted it should be unprocessed. As for sleeping bags etc I have just taken a que from the ultra lighters and gotten a reinforced space blanket tarp and am searching for a high quality natural blanket of wool or alpaca etc. The funny things about synthetics is nature often does the job better and more efficiently. Take Honey, man has yet to make a better processed food.

I did once try to coat my shoes in hydrophobic spray coat... it didn't work ended up turning em white and then developed cracks / rubbed off/ etc.

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## druid

> If I remember correctly sopping wet wool still keeps you warm. Granted it should be unprocessed. As for sleeping bags etc I have just taken a que from the ultra lighters and gotten a reinforced space blanket tarp and am searching for a high quality natural blanket of wool or alpaca etc. The funny things about synthetics is nature often does the job better and more efficiently. Take Honey, man has yet to make a better processed food.
> 
> I did once try to coat my shoes in hydrophobic spray coat... it didn't work ended up turning em white and then developed cracks / rubbed off/ etc.


You remember correctly. Both wool and goose down will keep you warmest when wet. Wool is a better choice of the two IMO, only because of the nature in which a down garment has to be constructed. The fluff needs all that air in the pocket in which it's contained and it fills with water so much that, you could feasibly double the weight of your entire  load with only a soaking wet down coat. Don't get me wrong...wool gets heavy too but nothing like I've experienced with Goose down....

When I was a very young hunter [we're going back 32 years now] my father got me a Woolrich Mackinaw coat. As a kid, I absolutely hated it. It was exactly like this one:

$_1.JPG

I hated the color, I hated the weight and I _certainly_ hated the 'musty' smell.....but as time went on, and the more I thought "I knew better" and bought other coats and styles of insulation.....the more I missed that Mackinaw.

On evilbay, they range in price from $30 to $170, the average being about $75 or so. Some look to be brand new, some look like they were dragged behind a Jeep on a trail. I may pick one up for next year.

Coincidentally, my waterproofing recipe works on any natural fiber garment. It would work on wool as well - however - when using heat to fuse it into the material, it might fuse into the hollow hair itself, diminishing some of the insulative quality of the actual wool fiber. 

Here's a decent read on wool: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lp2/wool-guide/

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## Rick

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If you look closely at the weave (this is but one style of weave) you will see tiny air pockets between the yarn. Those air spaces are what give wool its loft. Once wet, however, the yarn expands closing off those air pockets, which prevents body heat from escaping even though you are wet. It's the water the wool soaked up that gives it its increased weight. 

Cotton yarn looks the same however it does not close off the air gaps when wet. That allows your body heat to be transferred to the colder cotton fabric and escape out through the air pockets. There are also microscopic air pockets in the wool yarn itself that still traps air. Cotton does not have that. 

There is actually some science going on as well because the wool cells help break down water and create heat but it's not enough to keep you warm by itself. Your body heat is still needed. But, hey, every little bit helps.

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## druid

I agree Rick....is why I initially cautioned against using my recipe on Wool. Sacrificing warmth for a more water repellent garment isn't always the best course. In most cases, a person would  be better served by carrying a large lawn and leaf bag to create a makeshift rain poncho.

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## hunter63

> ...................
> Coincidentally, my waterproofing recipe works on any natural fiber garment. It would work on wool as well - however - when using heat to fuse it into the material, it might fuse into the hollow hair itself, diminishing some of the insulative quality of the actual wool fiber. 
> 
> Here's a decent read on wool: http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lp2/wool-guide/


With all due respect....I would not use that mixture on any clothing....these days there are much better commercial products that the "olden days" that required additional waterproofing.

I can see a value in treating a canvas pack or tarp...if that is your desire....I like the old canvas packs, tents and tarps as well.

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## druid

With all respect in response, I was also raised "newer doesn't mean better." Add to that, "if it ain't broke....".....

to each his own....YMMV

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## Davidlastink

> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> If you look closely at the weave (this is but one style of weave) you will see tiny air pockets between the yarn. Those air spaces are what give wool its loft. Once wet, however, the yarn expands closing off those air pockets, which prevents body heat from escaping even though you are wet. It's the water the wool soaked up that gives it its increased weight. 
> 
> Cotton yarn looks the same however it does not close off the air gaps when wet. That allows your body heat to be transferred to the colder cotton fabric and escape out through the air pockets. There are also microscopic air pockets in the wool yarn itself that still traps air. Cotton does not have that. 
> 
> There is actually some science going on as well because the wool cells help break down water and create heat but it's not enough to keep you warm by itself. Your body heat is still needed. But, hey, every little bit helps.


Does alpaca work the same way?

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## Wise Old Owl

> There's nothing scientific about that. They give all the chicken mites inside the bag a life preserver.


Wait what is wrong about you and are you suddenly old? Chiken mites... sadly informed...

Most natural chicken Purdue and my guess Tyson are covered in Bed Bugs.

Not a big issue... they don't transmit diseases   - yet.

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## TXyakr

Wool and alpaca are much better than down when wet due to loss of loft with down. But either way use of a rain resistant over jacket, tarp, or sleep bag cover etc. is wise. Materials similar to and improved over the old Gore Tex breath but are still water resistant unlike plastic which traps all your body's moisture. The human body is constantly transpiring moisture. Some very good articles have been written about this on backpacking/camping websites and magazines.

Goose down jackets/sweaters and quilts/sleep bags are not necessarily super expensive. Just today I purchased a REI brand jacket for $3.93 ($4.25 after tax) at the Salvation Army Thrift store. Last year I bought one for $8. My friend got a North Face goose jacket used at a Thrift store for $10. These are fine for camping, may have a small barely noticeable stain but doesn't really matter. Goose down insulation lasts much longer than synthetic, just critical that you keep it dry or it will smell like a wet dog.

Recently Costco had thin down quilts for $20. Just sew up the bottom and up the side about 1-2 feet and you have a great top quilt or sleeping bag liner or summer/spring sleeping bag (add zipper or velcro if you want, I don't for a hammock). Goose down compresses much smaller than synthetic or wool insulation. Also if you sleep in a hammock with a good ultra light tarp getting wet is not a concern, they are much dryer than sleeping on the ground. BUT keeping them dry is important! Some materials can breath and yet resist rain at the same time, plastic does NOT! This is helps with down and wool/alpaca both.

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## Davidlastink

> Wool and alpaca are much better than down when wet due to loss of loft with down. But either way use of a rain resistant over jacket, tarp, or sleep bag cover etc. is wise. Materials similar to and improved over the old Gore Tex breath but are still water resistant unlike plastic which traps all your body's moisture. The human body is constantly transpiring moisture. Some very good articles have been written about this on backpacking/camping websites and magazines.
> 
> Goose down jackets/sweaters and quilts/sleep bags are not necessarily super expensive. Just today I purchased a REI brand jacket for $3.93 ($4.25 after tax) at the Salvation Army Thrift store. Last year I bought one for $8. My friend got a North Face goose jacket used at a Thrift store for $10. These are fine for camping, may have a small barely noticeable stain but doesn't really matter. Goose down insulation lasts much longer than synthetic, just critical that you keep it dry or it will smell like a wet dog.
> 
> Recently Costco had thin down quilts for $20. Just sew up the bottom and up the side about 1-2 feet and you have a great top quilt or sleeping bag liner or summer/spring sleeping bag (add zipper or velcro if you want, I don't for a hammock). Goose down compresses much smaller than synthetic or wool insulation. Also if you sleep in a hammock with a good ultra light tarp getting wet is not a concern, they are much dryer than sleeping on the ground. BUT keeping them dry is important! Some materials can breath and yet resist rain at the same time, plastic does NOT! This is helps with down and wool/alpaca both.


In regards to smell how do you manage? Let the stuff air/drip dry or does it need more than that? I found a spanish site that seems to make Alpaca stuff but I sent an email to see what % is alpaca, my spanish is barely passable so they might be scratching their heads wondering wth I am talking about lol.

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## Rick

Alpaca fiber is hypoallergenic so you won't have any smell unless you fail to let it dry after being wet. The stuff I have I just let air dry overnight. I don't have anything so thick it won't dry by air drying it. If you are interested in alpaca try the alpaca fiber co-op. Their web site appears to be down at the moment so I'll link their Facebook page. They are good folks that I've dealt with many times. They will be happy to answer any questions you might have. 

https://www.facebook.com/Alpaca-Fibe...6166/timeline/

Here's the website when it comes back online. 

www.afcna.com

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## Davidlastink

> Alpaca fiber is hypoallergenic so you won't have any smell unless you fail to let it dry after being wet. The stuff I have I just let air dry overnight. I don't have anything so thick it won't dry by air drying it. If you are interested in alpaca try the alpaca fiber co-op. Their web site appears to be down at the moment so I'll link their Facebook page. They are good folks that I've dealt with many times. They will be happy to answer any questions you might have. 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Alpaca-Fibe...6166/timeline/
> 
> Here's the website when it comes back online. 
> 
> www.afcna.com


Thanks Rick. There is a local farm near me and the guy says their 100% alpaca blankets run $150 which seems pricey.

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## Rick

Alpaca is pricey no matter where you purchase it. That's not really a bad price however. I've seen alpaca blankets run 200+.

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## TXyakr

I have never noticed any smell in dryed out down, wool or alpaca materials. Best to use a quality dry bag/sack to keep them dry in the first place. Then perhaps a water resistant cover that breaths at least a little at night if nothing else cover to your foot section with large dry bag this is what rubs tent side or sticks out and gets wet first sometimes.

If you are lucky and backpacking there MAY be time and sunshine in the morning to dry gear out. But often it is raining and I must move on with wet gear that smells like a wet dog and is heavy. Thus if humidity in side eVent bag is greater than outside some moist air will escape as I hike, but not much. Experiment with a wet cotton blanket at home see how it works or doesn't BEFORE your next backpacking trip.

BTW purchased Alpaca sweaters/blanket at Quechua (former Incas) Market in Lima, Peru years ago it was fairly cheap there. Drove over Andes saw them herding the animals up there.

Edit: One of many small Alpaca farmer/ranchers near me, look them up on Owners Associations, 4H, Extension Service, ask at local feed store etc. near you. Large hand woven rugs are expensive, but a small one works well as a under-quilt if you have a double layer hammock, use in-place of a inflatable pad, or on the ground in your tent/tarp. Add mylar space blanket if you need it but I prefer something that breaths naturally, does not trap condensation moisture.

Tierra Prometida Alpaca Ranch is located about 15 miles west of San Marcos, TX

http://www.alpacausa.com

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## TXyakr

> In regards to smell how do you manage? Let the stuff air/drip dry or does it need more than that? I found a spanish site that seems to make Alpaca stuff but I sent an email to see what % is alpaca, my spanish is barely passable so they might be scratching their heads wondering wth I am talking about lol.


Yes air dry, but do not hang it or it could stretch out of shape like a heavy wet wool sweater. Here is a good article also talks about low oil, hypoallergenic nature of the yarn, i.e. how it is different than sheep's wool.

How to clean and care for Alpaca. (type of detergent to use etc.)
http://blog.novica.com/how-to-clean-...paca-products/

This link did not work well on my Android phone but fine on Apple MacBook computer not sure why.

Personally I do not trust its natural water resistance, use a water shedding outer layer if there is heavy morning mist or rain/sleet/snow same with hydrophobic goose down.

There are some people who raise Alpacas on various outdoor forums who may provide you with links to good North American suppliers. A good blanket, sweater, hat etc. if cared for properly should outlast a synthetic one many times over. Thus cost of ownership is about the same or less. IF YOU USE IT! and are actually an outdoors person, not just someone who car camps once or twice a year. I slept outside in my hammock last 3 weekends, was beside some rapids this past weekend listening to them all night. Very peaceful. Even the armadillos did not bother me much. Caught some LM and Guadeloupe bass. One Guadeloupe Bass was well over legal limit and very fat on 4 lb line, but I released all. Life is good! :-)

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## Davidlastink

Thanks Rick and Tx for info.

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## Quietsurvivaalist

My first post here other than in the intro section.

IME multiple smaller dry bags are more efficient the 1 large one in a pack, with different color bags denoting contents. If you have to open a bag in the rain you will see quickly why I like multiple bags. It keeps your gear organized, keeps only what you need dry, and doesn't monopolize your pack. 

With 1 large dry bag you are limited, why keep things dry that don't need to be like you pot, tarp etc

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## Davidlastink

In a previous post near top I actually mentioned I use a color coded drybag system, but I want to be able to stuff my sleeping stuff or coat in a bag if fording or light rain etc and not have to worry about splashing or accidents slipping into water or seeping from rain etc.

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## MinPin

> If you look into the indepth independent research that has been done on hydrophobic down (various brand names such as dri down) you will learn that the process to create its coating has made it resist initial water saturation but once it becomes wet it still looses its loft and thus its insulation and takes a very long time to dry out.
> It is a free world do whatever you want. But for myself I want a bag that has a good seal on the opening and high puncture resistance (pull bag out set on ground there can be many sharp rocks and sticks, and repeated use, long trip, the best garbage bag allows your finger to pop through) when I am in a very cold and wet environment, especially if I am traveling in an open canoe though rapids. If night time temperatures are well below freezing and rain and snow can last for days a few extra dollars is insignificant to me. Just my personal opinion based on real world experience, in northern Canada and many parts of the USA.


Just joined today, so I hope I am using this forum correctly.
Would really like to know what you like to use for a sleeping bag.  I live in the Northeast and i'm new to prepping.  I have read other forums where people prefer wool blankets over down.  I know wool is heavy, but is safer around campfires.  Value your opinion, thanks!

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## kyratshooter

We have a great introduction section.  You might want to go there and tell us about yourself.

After that you could come back to the equipment section and start a separate thread about your sleeping bag needs.

We have not had a good sleeping bag thread in a long time and it should be interesting.  

I have been looking for the perfect sleeping bag for 60 years.  Have not found it yet!

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## hunter63

Minpin
Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome.... The intro section is at:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...-Introductions

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## finallyME

> We have not had a good sleeping bag thread in a long time and it should be interesting.  
> 
> I have been looking for the perfect sleeping bag for 60 years.  Have not found it yet!


Kinda like the best survival knife.  I have several sleeping bags that are all different and perfect for different circumstances.  And, I still have ideas for a better one in each of those circumstances.  MinPin, start a new thread and we will discuss.

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## crashdive123

> K  MinPin, start a new thread and we will discuss.


Yep.  Easier than getting answers from a banned member.

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## Ralph Rotten

I have an external frame Coleman that's waterproof.  Good in the rain, bad for spills.  Dumped a whole bottle of olive oil in the main pouch and it pooled there .  Keeps my stuff dry.  Bought it at the swapmeet for ten bucks.  There is a lotta great hiking equipment sold in such places for highly discounted rates.  Always brand new.  Bought for the best of intentions, but then left to gather dust.

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