# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  Grylls or Mears?

## Endworld Guy

Ray Mears was asked a while back if people could learn anything from Bear Gryll's TV shows and replied- "Yes, how not to make TV programmes", meaning he didn't think much of Grylls as a survivalist.
Personally I think both guys shows are okay because on the one hand Mears teaches us how to work with nature, and Grylls shows us how not to fear it.
So can I ask forum members this question-"Who would you rather be stranded in the middle of nowhere with, Grylls or Mears?"

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## Sarge47

This has been discussed over and over again on this forum.  Most of the older members have expressed disappointment with BG because of the erroneous and dangerous material that he demonstrates.  BG has about a 15% approval rating.  I don't know about Ray Mears, but Les Stroud, David Canterbury, and Cody Lundin won out with a wide margin.   :Detective: 

Man woman, wild also surpassed BG, but that's only because some of the members thought that Ruth was hot.    :W00t:

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## hunter63

Really doesn't matter as both travel with a crew...you know these are TV guys right?

Now check out ManWomen Wild.........Ruth is Hot.

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## Rick

Looks like deja vu all over again.......

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## karatediver

I plan on taking Bear Grylls along.  He'll take all the risks like jumping off cliffs and sliding down steep slopes so I don't have to.  And he provides comic relief to keep my spirits up!

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## crashdive123

> Ruth is Hot.


How did I know you were going to say that?

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## Endworld Guy

> Really doesn't matter as both travel with a crew...you know these are TV guys right?
> Now check out ManWomen Wild.........Ruth is Hot.


Wow I never heard of MWW or Ruth, where's she been all my life?  I'll look at some clips on youtube, and will also look at Les Stroud, David Canterbury, and Cody Lundin, i've never heard of them either!
As for TV fakery, yeah it happens all the time, but I don't think it's faked when Grylls eats creatures that'd make even Rambo puke, so for sheer entertainment I'll take Grylls.. :Smile:

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## Sarge47

> Wow I never heard of MWW or Ruth, where's she been all my life?  I'll look at some clips on youtube, and will also look at Les Stroud, David Canterbury, and Cody Lundin, i've never heard of them either!
> As for TV fakery, yeah it happens all the time, but I don't think it's faked when Grylls eats creatures that'd make even Rambo puke, so for sheer entertainment I'll take Grylls..


Okay for sheer entertainment I understand.  However, he's been canned by Discovery, so you'll have to watch his older episodes where he drinks his own pee and squeezes water out of elephant poo.  At least he had comfortable sleeping quarters in the Inns that he stayed at. 

David & Cody were on the 1st two seasons of Dual Survival, and Cody will be "dualing" it with a new co-star this season, of which we're all in the dark as to who that will be!  

Les Stroud, aka "Survivorman" and a Canadian, was the original competition for BG but took a leave of absence.  He would go out into his chosen survival areas all alone and film his 7-day adventures.  Now he's planning on coming back with 10-day solo jaunts on some specials.  Those should be interesting.  Ray Mears has not been on any channels that I can get here in the USA, but I am curious.     :Yes: 

 :Cowboy: .

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## Endworld Guy

> ..Ray Mears has not been on any channels that I can get here in the USA, but I am curious..


He's been on Brit TV for years and knows his stuff, but he does it all without Gryll's showmanship and some people therefore find him boring, (he's on youtube).

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## crashdive123

I like Ray Mears just fine.  I've watched a lot of his stuff.

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## kyratshooter

I think I could sit around a campfire and have a good conversation with Mears.

Grylls, I can not imagine him allowing a conversation, or understanding one if it ocurred.

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## jhnnymwr75

Bear Grylls, I'd say probably not. A lot of the people around me, sort of... worship him. So if they read this, it'll probably be my last post! haha. No, in all reality, i've only seen Mears a few times, but I like him more. I don't need to jump off a cliff, break my leg, contract some disease.... although that is worst case scenario.

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## Winter

> Grylls eats creatures that'd make even Rambo puke,


Whoa Whoa buddy, maybe you didn't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hLY1TYUWp4

Mears is really good at field-craft. I watched one of his vids on sharpening a knife and instantly was turned off by the thought of carrying 3 stones, a Japanese water wheel and a leather strop in my pack.

You can learn all about the wilderness 100 yards from your truck, but, is someone who practices knifecraft inside his comfort zone the person whose tutelage I want to rely on if I'm soaking wet, staring at a boat sunk to the rails, in November, again?

Not sure.

Grylls is just too hard core for me. I like a light dinner after walking 100m across a volcano. Crab Brie, french bread, and a rib eye on fine china is too much.


Mears.

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## Winnie

Ray Mears.  However, Lofty Wiseman is my personal preference.

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## el-amigo

Hey, what a funny topic it is! How can you compare two totally different person?

Bear is a showman, an ex-soldier with limited survival knowledge, and Ray is THE bushcraft with an extensive knowledge of survival, natural medicines, plants and animals.

Personally I agree with Winnie, John Wiseman is the master. [I have his masterpiece (SAS survival handbook) in both English and Hungarian.]

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## Sarge47

> Ray Mears.  However, Lofty Wiseman is my personal preference.


Don't know much about Ray, but haven't heard one negative comment on here about him, so that's a big point in his favor!  I do have Lofty Wiseman's book in English, but not Hungarian...I don't read Hungarian!   :Innocent:

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## Sarge47

If any of you Bear Grylls fans happen to chance upon BG out in the wild, and he offers you a drink, and you notice that it's yellow in color...trust me on this...it's a good chance that it's *NOT* lemonade      :No:

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## hunter63

> ..............
> You can learn all about the wilderness 100 yards from your truck, but, is someone who practices knifecraft inside his comfort zone the person whose tutelage I want to rely on if I'm soaking wet, staring at a boat sunk to the rails, in November, again?...........


That "again" thing really gets on my nerves, you would think that you would learn after the first time.....But, Nooooooooo.
Chest waders allow you to get deeper into it....before you get really wet.
Cell phone in plastic bag is a good thing.

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## Rick

Yeah, how many times do you have to step on that partially submerged limb to get your water hose in the water only to slide off and go over your boot? I mean, come on.

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## Endworld Guy

There's another fact we need to consider when deciding who we'd like as our leader ---PERSONALITY--- regardless of whether it's Grylls or Mears or anybody else.
An episode of the classic 1970's TV series 'Survivors' explores the theme nicely when a chap joins the group. 
He's an agricultural college-educated expert and knows absolutely everything about growing crops. 
At first they welcome him because he's such a priceless asset, but as time goes on they get more and more fed up with his snooty insulting manner, and the morale of the group begins to suffer. 
In the end they decide to do it their way with their own limited agricultural knowledge and ignore his way.
Irked at being ignored, he leaves, and the groups morale begins to climb again.. :Smile: 

PS- All 38 'Survivors' episodes are on youtube, I watched them again earlier this year, basically a plague wipes out about 95% of humans and we follow a group trying to survive. It's intelligently scripted with not a zombie in sight. 
Type 'Survivors 1975' into the youtube search box but be warned you'll have to spend some time compiling lots of parts into playlists, eg- (Part 5, Episode4, Series 1 etc), or buy it on DVD.
Use the WIKI 'Episodes list' for a helpful overview.

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## crashdive123

Wow!  Leader?  Really?


Good luck with that.

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## finallyME

I am surprised you haven't heard of Ruth, she is British.

I love Ray.  He is my favorite out of all of them.  Sarge, you need to learn how to surf youtube.  I think most of Ray's stuff is on youtube.  Winter, you need to watch his video on sharpening a knife in the field.  He uses a falkniven DC3.  Very good video.  All his videos are great and I have learned more from him than any other TV guy.

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## Warheit

With the #1 selection in the _Wilderness Surival "Who Would You Take With You" Draft_ -- Warheit selects Bear Grylls of the United Kingdom.

*thunderous applause*

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## Endworld Guy

> Wow!  Leader?  Really?
> Good luck with that.


Good point mate, which brings us to the question- would survival groups do better with or without a leader?
Every tribe in every part of the world has had a chief or headman or Big Man on Campus since prehistoric times, so if it worked for them maybe it's still a good idea?
It's almost as if people automatically look to a strong leader to willingly follow.
Or would our groups do better as a leaderless democracy, I dunno?..
How about it Colonel?

_"Son, you WANT me on that wall, you NEED me on that wall"_
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## Sarge47

> I am surprised you haven't heard of Ruth, she is British.
> 
> I love Ray.  He is my favorite out of all of them.  Sarge, you need to learn how to surf youtube.  I think most of Ray's stuff is on youtube.  Winter, you need to watch his video on sharpening a knife in the field.  He uses a falkniven DC3.  Very good video.  All his videos are great and I have learned more from him than any other TV guy.


To be fair, Ruth was a British Anchor on one of the British news programs, right?  But she's NOT a survival instructor, rather, her American husband, Mykel Hawke, supposedly a survival instructor in the US Special Forces is the teacher and Ruth is the student who does extra work by getting Hunter all worked up!     :W00t: 

Yeah, I'll check his vids out, thanks FM!

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## Warheit

> Good point mate, which brings us to the question- would survival groups do better with or without a leader?
> Every tribe in every part of the world has had a chief or headman or Big Man on Campus since prehistoric times, so if it worked for them maybe it's still a good idea?
> It's almost as if people automatically WANT and NEED a strong leader to follow.
> Or would our groups do better as a leaderless democracy, I dunno?..


In any social situation, especially in a group dynamic, a leader is going to emerge, perhaps a few.  There will be problems, as it is likely that a few similar personalities will go up for the same "crowning of the king" -- but overall I think people prefer construct and order to disarray, and I firmly believe that a leader of good quality can best unite a band or group of people.  As you mentioned, that is precisely one of the reasons why intimate groups of people throughout history have had such a system -- for order, consistency and stability.

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## Sarge47

> Good point mate, which brings us to the question- would survival groups do better with or without a leader?
> Every tribe in every part of the world has had a chief or headman or Big Man on Campus since prehistoric times, so if it worked for them maybe it's still a good idea?
> It's almost as if people automatically WANT and NEED a strong leader to follow.
> Or would our groups do better as a leaderless democracy, I dunno?..


IMO it depends on the experience of the group.  Members of the group lacking outdoor experience should have a leader/instructor.  Even the US Marines teach, in their survival course, for the student groups to pick a leader.  However if the group is made up of members with equal experience in the field then they need to work together instead.  Dual Survival illustrated this point very well with both Cody and Dave, often at odds with each other's methods, working side-by-side none the less.     :1:

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## Sarge47

> Good point mate, which brings us to the question- would survival groups do better with or without a leader?
> Every tribe in every part of the world has had a chief or headman or Big Man on Campus since prehistoric times, so if it worked for them maybe it's still a good idea?
> It's almost as if people automatically look to a strong leader to willingly follow.
> Or would our groups do better as a leaderless democracy, I dunno?..
> How about it Colonel?
> 
> _"Son, you WANT me on that wall, you NEED me on that wall"_
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Look out, here comes Crash...again!     :No:

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## crashdive123

Nah.  Not yet.

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## Winter

> That "again" thing really gets on my nerves, you would think that you would learn after the first time.....But, Nooooooooo.
> Chest waders allow you to get deeper into it....before you get really wet.
> Cell phone in plastic bag is a good thing.


Hahaha, I'm talking about sunken boats. I didn't do it.


Adventuring comes with certain risks.

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## Winter

> I am surprised you haven't heard of Ruth, she is British.
> 
> I love Ray.  He is my favorite out of all of them.  Sarge, you need to learn how to surf youtube.  I think most of Ray's stuff is on youtube.  Winter, you need to watch his video on sharpening a knife in the field.  He uses a falkniven DC3.  Very good video.  All his videos are great and I have learned more from him than any other TV guy.


That makes alot more sense for bushcraft than the other one I saw. Thanks

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## Winter

Sorry for the triple post.

Leaders.

A leader and a chain of command/authority work best if their powers are clearly defined. I abhor authority, but if I join a group with a charter than I have accepted that set of rules. I prefer rules over rulers and won't stand for people being subjugated.

The Charter also needs to clearly explain the process of problem solving and making new, or removing, rules. 

Oh, wait, that's how America was supposed to be and lasted a mere decade before people found a way to abuse the rules.

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## Sarge47

> With the #1 selection in the _Wilderness Surival "Who Would You Take With You" Draft_ -- Warheit selects Bear Grylls of the United Kingdom.
> 
> *thunderous applause*


Much as it pains me I have to agree with Warheit...Bear knows where all the best Inns are!    (running and ducking rotton eggs and tomatoes.)     :FRlol:

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## Rick

Anyone can lead. Few people are leaders. Huge difference in my opinion.

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## Sarge47

> Anyone can lead. Few people are leaders. Huge difference in my opinion.


I agree, In the military some "leaders are the guys walking point that get the 1st bullet!  I was going to show a current example but can't without violating the "no politics" rule on this forum.   :Ninja:

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## hunter63

> Hahaha, I'm talking about sunken boats. I didn't do it.
> 
> 
> Adventuring comes with certain risks.


Yes "adventuring" does make life interesting...... I do like the term "adventuring".

Haven't sunk any boats yet......several canoes have "gotten washed out".......but my biggest problem is the getting in to deep, syndrome.

We have an island that has been nick named "laundry island", for the number of times it has had "laundry" hanging up to dry.......Actually more of a floating bog, that will suck you down, or people just seem to "fall off'????.

BTW an old canvas decoy bag works good as emergency "drawers" while yours dry.

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## crashdive123

I've sunk a boat about a thousand times.  Thankfully I've surfaced a boat just as many times.  When the number of surfacings is less than the number of sinkings........that is a bad thing.

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## Endworld Guy

> ...I abhor authority...


Personally I only abhor authority if it's oppressive and bossy, but if it's fair-minded and decent, i have no prob with it at all.
For example I was admin/mod/2nd in command at a gaming/military discussion club for a few years and the atmosphere was great, I ran the place single handed while the Big Boss was at work or down the pub, but then he started making bad decisions and overuling me and wouldn't listen to reason, so i said to him "You're gonna have to get yerself another boy mate", and walked, and so did some other members.
The moral? - Weakening any group (whether a survival group or a club etc) by losing members is a sure sign that the leadership is shaky..

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## Sarge47

> The moral? - Weakening any group (whether a survival group or a club etc) by losing members is a sure sign that the leadership is shaky..


Nonsense, sometimes you just need to "let the dead wood float."  Sometimes you have to get rid of those that are being part of the problem rather than part of the solution.  Sometimes a good leader will actually cut people from the group for the over-all good of the membership.  Take this group for example.  Oft-times we have to ban members who are trolls or spammers for the good of the group and/or the forum itself.  It doesn't weaken the group, it makes it stronger!     :Cool2:

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## Rick

Where does it say that the owner of anything doesn't have the right to do with it as they please? I agree with Sarge. I've seen a lot of successful groups of one kind or another that had terrible leaders. I've seen some groups where folks left and the leadership was outstanding. It has far more to do with the dynamics of the group and the personality types involved than whether the leadership is good or bad.

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## Endworld Guy

*Originally Posted by Endworld Guy * 
_The moral? - Weakening any group (whether a survival group or a club etc) by losing members is a sure sign that the leadership is shaky.._




> Nonsense....


I've seen good, popular respected members walk out of places because the mods are overbearing control freaks.
For example earlier this month a bunch of guys (including me) left a flight sim forum because a mod got his kicks out of bullying people, especially green newcomers, and locking their threads.
We tactfully suggested he was being too bossy, to which he replied something like-"I don't care what members think, I'm the mod around here"
So we walked because that was just bad leadership plain and simple, and his forum is the weaker for it.

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## crashdive123

_pfffffffft_  What's this talk of other forums?

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## Sarge47

> *Originally Posted by Endworld Guy * 
> _The moral? - Weakening any group (whether a survival group or a club etc) by losing members is a sure sign that the leadership is shaky.._
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen good, popular respected members walk out of places because the mods are overbearing control freaks.
> For example earlier this month a bunch of guys (including me) left a flight sim forum because a mod got his kicks out of bullying people, especially green newcomers, and locking their threads.
> We tactfully suggested he was being too bossy, to which he replied something like-"I don't care what members think, I'm the mod around here"
> So we walked because that was just bad leadership plain and simple, and his forum is the weaker for it.


Hmm, first you called it a club and now you're calling it a forum...curious.

Yes, those situations DO occur, but that's not EVERY situation, so to say that "Weakening any group (weather a survival group or a club, etc.) by losing members is a sure sign that the leadership is shaky..." is not always true.   Let's look at this forum for example.  Yes I'm a Mod, as is Rick & Crashdive.  So let's say that I decide that a member has to go and I just ban him outright.  That person still has a chance to come back on, either by protest, or even better, apologize for any possible wrong doing and ask to be let back in.  If they wish to protest they can e-mail the owner, Chris, and present their case.  If Chris agrees, then he can override the mods and bring that person back...or he can contact us discreetly and discuss it.  However, some members get angry at the mods, ie., the "leadership" as it were, and call us names like "Nazi," "control freaks," etc., and leave on their own.  Sometimes they outright ask to be banned.  Does all of this weaken this site?  No, it's stronger than ever, especially since those that didn't fit in, or want to fit in are gone.  The good news here is that you are entitled to your opinion and are free to discuss it willingly without fear of being banned. Here in "the Colonies," we believe in "Free Speech," too a certain extent.(flaming and/or profanity are not allowed.)

Now, I don't know about that "club" you belonged to, but if I didn't like the leadership I would have left as well, but only if I didn't have any other options.  Was there another leader?  Oh, that's right, you said that you were "2nd in command."  Was this "leader" the owner or founder of the club or was there someone above him?  If there was that's who I would have gone to next to discuss it.  That person may decide that he'd rather replace the leader than lose members.  If there wasn't anybody else then I would have left too.  But ONLY because I didn't wish to stay.  However there may be a similar club losing members where they simply disagree with the leadership for different reasons and the leader has to follow rules already set in place or be replaced by someone who will, so they "stick to their guns" and don't give ground.  Members leave as a result.(shrugging) Too bad, "don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya" is my motto when that happens.

Here's one last analogy, let's say that I was badly mistreated by somebody form your country, so I go around saying that "All people from England are bad."  Is that correct?  No,  judging everybody by the actions of one is just as wrong as what you're talking about.  That's what I'm reading in your post, that you are making a blanket statement about every other club based upon your personal experience with one, if not a few others.  Do you see my point? 
So there's my "buck two-fifty."     :Cool2:

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## hunter63

Why am I feeling the plane tilting? ....just a tad, just a tad, but tilting never the less.......
Never mind.

Culling the herd, insures the weakest and slowest get taken out insuring the herd, (Group) grows stronger.

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## Endworld Guy

I know there are good forums/clubs/websites around (such as this one), and there are also bad ones around; the only reason i brought up the subject is because it provides a *fun* discussion about leadership for us survivalists, especially as good leadership would be vital in a real-world "survive or die" situation.. :Smile: 

Anyway lets forget forums! Here's a neat 8-minute clip where the newly-arrived young agricultural expert is being his usual pain-in-the *** self, pointing with his finger calling the rest of the group "stupid" etc, and during the discussion it turns out his previous group failed because of low morale caused by him.
In the end everybody decides to carry on muddling through and keep their high morale and to ignore him, so he leaves.
The message is clear- having a fantastic expert in a group may sound fine on paper, but if his manner is rude, offensive and causes low morale he's no use to anybody-

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*CLIP*- http://youtu.be/Gmiacxy18fU

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## Rick

It sort of looks like he's instructing the group on the proper etiquette of gagging yourself. I was always taught...left hand on the thigh...two fingers. You can use one finger if the meeting is informal or your whole hand if you are alone.

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## Sarge47

Isn't that a re-run of "To Sir With Love?"  Where's Sidney Portiere?  

Anyway, I would NEVER say that any discussion about survival is fun.  Survival is about life or death...period...end of paragraph!     :Nod:

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## Endworld Guy

> Isn't that a re-run of "To Sir With Love?"  Where's Sidney Portiere?  
> Anyway, I would NEVER say that any discussion about survival is fun.  Survival is about life or death...period...end of paragraph!


Good point, which brings up the question:- who would we rather be with in a survival situation, somebody with a sense of humour or somebody without one?.. :Wink:

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## Sarge47

> Good point, which brings up the question:- who would we rather be with in a survival situation, somebody with a sense of humour or somebody without one?..


Hopefully one who brung matches and a compass.  As for your question, it's pretty broad, so it would depend on what type of sense of humor the person had as well as what the situation is.  Obviously a positive attitude is a big requirement for Survival, and if one can kid about it then it's better for all.  This was demonstrated between Cody Lundin and David Canterbury in "Dual Survival." (which, BTW, is being shown in a marathon on Discovery as I type...must be preparing for Season 3!)  However, as I mentioned earlier, it would also depend on the situation.  I don't think anybody was telling jokes during 9-1-1 here in the states the day they brought down the World Trade Center, yet many people DID survive!  The thing is, we usually have no choice in a true survival situation, you take what you get! :Cool2:

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## Celticwarrior

I'd take Mears or Canterbury or Les Stroud over Grylls any day. Much as I am often amused and horrified at his antics, I would hate to be the corpse that ends up being fished out of a ravine or from under a glacier because Bear said "Hey, you know what would be a good idea?". The guy is a dufus. Sure, he had SAS training, but most folks with his background wouldn't do his style of risky, often stupid, antics that might gain ratings but could lead to someone getting seriously killed if they tried it in real life. Just because someone has been through some military training doesn't make them an expert. He has charisma on camera and if you didn't know he had a complete safety and rescue team with him at all times, you might believe he is really some Rambo-esque hero. Mears and Stroud are really wilderness survival experts, because they go out and DO it, often by themselves, rather than take a whole team along with Wikipedia on their smartphones to tell you interesting tidbits about the local flora and fauna. Canterbury might not be the best choice, either, but he is a lot closer to my own personality than someone like Cody Lundin, who I find really preachy and annoying, and rather limited in his scope of survival training judging by the number of environments where he outright says "I'll have to rely on Dave here, since I don't have any experience in this environment" when making Dual Survival. If I want to live wild in the Arizona desert, I'd call Lundin. Otherwise I see no value in his hippy dogma.

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## Endworld Guy

> I'd take Mears or Canterbury or Les Stroud over Grylls any day...The guy is a dufus....


Ha ha I had to google 'dufus' and I see it's 'a stupid goofy person'.. :Smile: 
Interestingly I saw a brief youtube clip once where the interviewer asks Grylls what sort of temperament is needed to do the things he does in his shows, and Grylls replies "You have to be messed up".
So there we have it folks, Grylls admits he's messed up! (If I find the clip again i'll post a link)

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## Warheit

> Much as it pains me I have to agree with Warheit...Bear knows where all the best Inns are!    (running and ducking rotton eggs and tomatoes.)


That is not why I selected him.  Sorry.

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## Rick

I had a lot of respect for Cantebury until he sliced his arm open and cauterized it with gun powder. And then there was the little scene where he dove on the gaiter and killed it. That falls squarely in the Grylls mind set to me and is someone to be avoided.

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## crashdive123

There are a lot of questions surrounding the "accuracy" of Dave C's military service.  That is not to say his abilities are being called into question.  While the Supreme Court may not have an issue with false military claims - I do.

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## Sarge47

So about 85% of the membership wouldn't trust Bear to teach anything about survival.  I wouldn't trust him to take out the garbage.  After watching some of the Ray Mears' You Tube vids I gotta say that he seems pretty level headed to me.  I'd take him over BG any day of the week as well as even David C.!  Also agreeing with CW about Cody.  If it's Arizona give me Cody, just don't take my shoes, kay?     :Innocent:

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## Rick

I'm with you, Crash. I understand the ruling but don't happen to agree with it. Then again, none of them called me to confer.

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## crashdive123

What I don't understand about the ruling, and I have not read it in its entirety yet.......It's against the law to say you are LEO if your are not.  It's against the law to say you are an elected official if you are not.  The court ruled that saying you were military or had earned medals that you did not earn does not constitute a crime unless it was used for personal gain and then it would be fraud.  I understand that Congress will probably tweak the law to conform with the ruling.  I think it could be argued (I guess it was) that Xavier Alvarez used his lie of being awarded the Medal of Honor and serving to advance his personal position (he was an elected official).  http://www.metnews.com/articles/2012/alva062912.htm

The issue I have with Dave C. is that there are stories about a much exaggerated "resume" of military service, much of it being totally false.  I have not requested information regarding it with a FOIA request, but it leaves doubts in my mind about him.  An individual's integrity is pretty high on my list of important things.

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## hunter63

Y'all can hang out with those dudes.......I gotta go, some one waiting on me back at "The Hut"......
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## Rick

Yes, Mrs. Hunter, he was here. The woman? Oh, she found his coat and hung it up. She just stuck around until he got here so no one else would take it. Attractive? Well....yes, now that you mention it she is attractive I suppose. But us wilderness guys don't usually notice that kind of thing. Now the hut, that's a fine looking hut.

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## Endworld Guy

> ..The issue I have with Dave C. is that there are stories about a much exaggerated "resume" of military service, much of it being totally false...An individual's integrity is pretty high on my list of important things.


Yeah if somebody's a Walter Mitty it means they prefer fantasy to reality, so in a real survival situation I doubt if they'd be able to handle the harsh reality and would crack up.
Regarding Grylls, I tend to think he's not as bad as some people make out, for example he regularly appears on talk shows even though he knows they're bound to ask him if his shows are faked, *he doesn't duck the question*, he goodnaturedly answers it by saying something about "that's how TV works" and goes on to say even Mears's shows are "faked" to some extent. 
(And even in one of the highly-respected David Attenborough's shows, some polar bear cubs in a zoo were passed off as being in the wild)
In one of Gryll's shows he eats something nasty and *throws up*; "That's a first for me" he says, and leaves it in the show rather than insisting on having it edited out to preserve his hard man image.
In another show he actually *weeps* on camera when a friend goes temporarily missing  in a powered hanglider during their attempt to fly over Everest, but leaves it in the show.
And another time he jumps out of a helicopter and swims to a small tropical island but later *admits he can't survive there* because of a lack of water and food, so he builds a raft and gets off. 
So yeah I kinda like Grylls because of those little human touches, there's no hint of prima donna about him and he comes across as a regular guy with good integrity.

PS- I'm undecided about whether i'd like to be in a survival situation with Sarah Palin, i don't like most politicians but I hear she's a dab hand at hunting. Here on USS Stennis in 2009 she looks like she's itching to launch an airstrike against a moose herd- 

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## Warheit

Cool post, Endworld.

RE: Bear -- Of course he isn't as bad as a lot of people make him out to be.  The only knowledge people have of him (in all likelihood) comes from a TV show.  Little do people know, networks have a lot of influence on what is or is not broadcasted in the episodes.  All that isn't Bears' doing or on his own accord.  The shows are made for entertainment and made for a television audience.  The premise of his show was never to show you how to "survive" in the wild, more or less get yourself out of a bad situation.  It baffles me too see others think he was the guy calling all the shots on what was advertised on Discovery Channel.  Most resort to a few instances that were propagated online through YouTube to end up making negative comments about him or try to discredit his doings.  I don't see the point.  No reason to make an artificial contest of endeavors and accomplishment.

Grylls has made revolutionary expeditions around the world and is highly knowledgeable and trained in many avenues from knowledge of culture, self-defense, to medicine and ecology.  He has done things that none of us could ever dream up, has great desire and will to make not only himself, but others around him (through charity, events, etc.) better.  Extremely well-educated.  I find him to be a good author too, and feel several of his books contain valuable lessons and discourse on life in general.  He is definitely a leader.  I think he he has a lot to offer.  It would be cool to meet him someday.

Great thread and topic.

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## Jimmyq

At least Dual Survival had the disclaimer about the guys being presented with scenarios and situations, I like to watch as many of those types of shows or youtube vids as I can, even if I pick up only 1 skill, idea or tip its worth it to me.  I realized a long time ago that tv shows are not about anything but the commercials every 14 minutes or so although I still can't seem to get that idea through to my lovely wife.

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## woodowl

Has to be Mears for me but given one book to rely on it would be  Lofty's SAS classic. I met Ray last year while he was filming of the Welsh coast and there were 5 crew with him. Very nice person to talk to and a real expert.

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## Kamel

sunisgoing.jpg

I like bear tho, his showmanship is awesome, idk how much I believe about him sleeping at hotels. idk mears, but les stroud is cool, you guys are the expert but id rather watch bear grylls and MWW is good too, and ruth is indeed hot

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## Sarge47

> sunisgoing.jpg
> 
> I like bear tho, his showmanship is awesome, idk how much I believe about him sleeping at hotels. idk mears, but les stroud is cool, you guys are the expert but id rather watch bear grylls and MWW is good too, and ruth is indeed hot


Got to hand it to Bear, he sure knows where the best Inns are!     :Innocent:

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## rslt

Hi guys
Just wanted to pipe in and vote for BG.
I like Mears but dual survival and Les don't really do it for me.
I actually met BG when he did his Australian tour, I have always watched his show but thought he was a bit of an idiot. A friend got me meet and greet tickets so I took the oportunity to make a knife and give it to him. Just to say I did it.
The one thing I got out of the meet is how much of an act his show is. He often says in interviews that he doesn't like being in front of the camera. 
He has such a big heart and is naturally a shy person, he is very caring and humble (the opposite to his show), meeting him changed my view of his personality, he is the type of person you would could sit around a fire with and talk for hours.
As for his show, don't do what he does but you have to admit, he has taken it too the masses.

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## Sarge47

> Hi guys
> Just wanted to pipe in and vote for BG.
> I like Mears but dual survival and Les don't really do it for me.
> I actually met BG when he did his Australian tour, I have always watched his show but thought he was a bit of an idiot. A friend got me meet and greet tickets so I took the oportunity to make a knife and give it to him. Just to say I did it.
> The one thing I got out of the meet is how much of an act his show is. He often says in interviews that he doesn't like being in front of the camera. 
> He has such a big heart and is naturally a shy person, he is very caring and humble (the opposite to his show), meeting him changed my view of his personality, he is the type of person you would could sit around a fire with and talk for hours.
> As for his show, don't do what he does but you have to admit, he has taken it too the masses.


I believe that it was one of his episodes in your country that he demonstrated drinking his own urine and saying that it was okay.      :W00t:

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## rslt

Like I said. Don't do what he does.  :Smile:

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## Sarge47

> Like I said. Don't do what he does.


Then why bother listening to him or watching him?  You said that Dual Survival and Les doesn't "do it for you," and that your vote for Bear Grylls is based mostly on a personal meeting.  So true Survival advice doesn't enter into it, right?   Just trying to understand your point of view.  Anyway, he should be more approachable now that he's out of a job.


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## Besttracker

> Ray Mears was asked a while back if people could learn anything from Bear Gryll's TV shows and replied- "Yes, how not to make TV programmes", meaning he didn't think much of Grylls as a survivalist.
> Personally I think both guys shows are okay because on the one hand Mears teaches us how to work with nature, and Grylls shows us how not to fear it.
> So can I ask forum members this question-"Who would you rather be stranded in the middle of nowhere with, Grylls or Mears?"


My congrats to you on an interesting post and question . 

I profer this 

Bear Grylls eats animal feces and rotten flesh from animals he did not kill . Bear runs down muddy & rock scree like a child that has had too much sugar to eat .He is itching for a broken leg  ; but reckon his camera crew will save him . His "background" in the SAS is up for grabs .

Mears --->   I looked at a video that Mears made . He takes along a few tiny nails that will hold his whetstone in place on the lovely sunny log in the meadows . Mears can now sharpen his  "survival knife" .....lovely . 

In answer to your question 

I would rather be stranded with Mears . He is softer and fatter than Bear .

Mears has more protein content

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## Sarge47

> My congrats to you on an interesting post and question . 
> 
> I profer this 
> 
> Bear Grylls eats animal feces and rotten flesh from animals he did not kill . Bear runs down muddy & rock scree like a child that has had too much sugar to eat .He is itching for a broken leg  ; but reckon his camera crew will save him . His "background" in the SAS is up for grabs .
> 
> Mears --->   I looked at a video that Mears made . He takes along a few tiny nails that will hold his whetstone in place on the lovely sunny log in the meadows . Mears can now sharpen his  "survival knife" .....lovely . 
> 
> In answer to your question 
> ...


Dude do an intro!  You belong here!      :Punk:

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## hunter63

> Dude do an intro!  You belong here!


Yeah, I like the way you think as well........Plus 1

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## rslt

Fair point.
My post about meeting him was mainly because a lot of posts about not prefeing BG include personal attacks on him. Just wanted to say he really is an awesome individual and I believe most people would change their mind upon meeting him too.
I would not recommend any 'lay person' to try and survive the way he does, BUT he gets my personal vote for two resons 
1. I have been a caver/rock climber/outdoors man most of my life and I can relate to what he does and the way he does it. His show to me is about extreme survival when it's life or death. I have learnt a lot from him.
2. He is on the cutting edge of survival shows and no one else really comes close. He is seen as reckless because most people couldn't dream of doing what he does, even other survival experts. I can't imagine Mears, Les or Cody drinking there own urine, BUT that is what some people have had to do in survival situations.
IMO, not only is BG a great guy but he is one of the best survivalists on TV.

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## Besttracker

> Fair point.
> My post about meeting him was mainly because a lot of posts about not prefeing BG include personal attacks on him. Just wanted to say he really is an awesome individual and I believe most people would change their mind upon meeting him too.
> I would not recommend any 'lay person' to try and survive the way he does, BUT he gets my personal vote for two resons 
> 1. I have been a caver/rock climber/outdoors man most of my life and I can relate to what he does and the way he does it. His show to me is about extreme survival when it's life or death. I have learnt a lot from him.
> 2. He is on the cutting edge of survival shows and no one else really comes close. He is seen as reckless because most people couldn't dream of doing what he does, even other survival experts. I can't imagine Mears, Les or Cody drinking there own urine, BUT that is what some people have had to do in survival situations.
> IMO, not only is BG a great guy but he is one of the best survivalists on TV.


Completely respect your opinions and admire that you stand up for the people you most admire . I wouldn't give a pinch of poo for people that follow the "norm" . You say that Bear is one of the "best survivalists on t.v. "  The best "survivalists" don't have time for television and selling toilet paper and Toyotas . Chris Janowski is one of the best instructors in the world . He lives in the most extreme climate on earth . Chris would rather eat a moose steak , than a hand full of berries . 
Cody Lundin ---> Needs to realise that even "primitive" cultures wear shoes . He lives fairly close  to my house in New Mexico ... where my Apache ancestors are from . Please read the latest issue of the Backwoodsman magazine and hear what Mr Lundin has to say about "liars" and "phony" teachers . Many teachers were teaching "primitive" living and survival  before Cody was a wink in his parents eyes . Many instructors learned "survival" in the jungle ... while people were trying to hunt them down and kill them . 

The "bushcraft" scenario is just another name for what many women and men did as they grew up . Just a way of life and nothing special . They <---  are the true experts . 

Best wishes to all here . May we live long and learn together .

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## gsip

I think most people don't like BG because 95 percent of people can not due what he does physically.He is in exctreme limits of fitness and flexibility.In a real survival situation,he would probilbly survive because he could due 20miles a day.3days he does 60 miles. Most people off trail would due 12 to 15 miles. Now a days 95 percent of backpackers don't leave the trail, 95 percent of hunters don't walk more than a mile of their truck or atv.His show is ENTERTAiNMENT, anybody relieving on tv shows for survival is a fool.

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## hunter63

Lots of number there, gsip.....references?
Anyway, How about an intro?

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...r-Introduction

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## Rick

90% of statistics are made up 40% of the time and only 30% correct.

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## RED-DOG

I don't know about you guys and this answer is a little off topic but i would prefer to be stranded with Les Stroud.

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## hunter63

Lets hear it for Ruth England.........

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## crashdive123

I hear tell that she's hot.

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## Rick

Well then.....she should remove her coat if she's hot. Or anything else that would restrict proper air circulation.

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## crashdive123

Now you've gone and done it.  H63 is going to have to go cool off.......and no - he wasn't wearing a coat.

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## Rick

Just trying to be helpful. We wouldn't want anything bad to happen to Ruth. (We do need to get rid of that husband of hers, though).

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## erunkiswldrnssurvival

ray mears is well suited for long term survival bear is quick to get out of the woods. i dont know what bear really knows.

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## erunkiswldrnssurvival

this is the trailer for Hillbilly Blood. we start filming season 2 soon.

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## crashdive123

Gene - for those of us that don't get 3Net - will there be another way to watch your show?

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## Sarge47

> I think most people don't like BG because 95 percent of people can not due what he does physically.He is in exctreme limits of fitness and flexibility.In a real survival situation,he would probilbly survive because he could due 20miles a day.3days he does 60 miles. Most people off trail would due 12 to 15 miles. Now a days 95 percent of backpackers don't leave the trail, 95 percent of hunters don't walk more than a mile of their truck or atv.His show is ENTERTAiNMENT, anybody relieving on tv shows for survival is a fool.


Awww, c'mon gsip, you know you you're just attracted to that cute tush of his!  'Fess up!       :Whistling:

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## erunkiswldrnssurvival

should be on a public network this next year. .discovery channel really likes it. we have great ratings. the networks are thinking about increasing exposure

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## ClayPick

> this is the trailer for Hillbilly Blood. we start filming season 2 soon.


I had noticed that you had the show on the go, congratulations! Now if I had a TV. I do the best I can with U TUBE.

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## erunkiswldrnssurvival

we are working on some really cool projects for this season. i made a cross bow and hunted deer with it. it was a great episode. we have a lot of interesting topics to cover and some "Bear Grylls" excitement. so its a great thing to be a part of. great stuff.

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## hunter63

Very cool, I'll be watching for it.....Need to find some of the 3d glasses, I guess.

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## Sarge47

> Well then.....she should remove her coat if she's hot. Or anything else that would restrict proper air circulation.


Well, if Ruth would do what Bear Grylls did and strip down naked and do push-ups in the snow the ratings would be off the chart!     :Creepy:

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## asemery

Maybe I missed but has anyone mentoned Mors Kochanski.  I have a couplem of his pamphlets and they are basic but very inforfmative.  His books are available from Amazon.
Here is a description pf his pamphlets

http://www.oldjimbo.com/Outdoors-Mag...ft-and-his.pdf

I don't know about the secutity of this site but downloads of his pamphlets are available here.  Tony
*******Removed Link**********

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Gene, that is awesome!~ Congrats, I have always enjoyed your take on survival!

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## Sarge47

> Maybe I missed but has anyone mentoned Mors Kochanski.  I have a couplem of his pamphlets and they are basic but very inforfmative.  His books are available from Amazon.
> Here is a description pf his pamphlets
> 
> http://www.oldjimbo.com/Outdoors-Mag...ft-and-his.pdf
> 
> I don't know about the secutity of this site but downloads of his pamphlets are available here.  Tony
> http://newpdfforyou.com/search.html?...s&wm=153&sub=9


I have mentioned Mors several times on here and have several of his pamphlets as well as his book, "Bushcraft:  Outdoor Skills & Wilderness Survival!"    :Smartass: 

http://www.amazon.com/Bushcraft-Outd...ords=bushcraft

 Cody Lundin was a student of his and Mors was the the one sho influenced him to  start him wearing his Mora knife around his neck on a  piece of Para-cord.  Mors also uses the Mora knife!     :Smartass: 

A few years back we had a member come on here briefly who knows Mors personally, although we haven't seen him for some time.   :Thumbup1:

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## Rick

Asemery - I removed the link to the last site. That is a known malicious site as listed by Semantec. It spawns multiple windows and you have to download proprietary software to open the pamphlets. So before someone got caught up in it I removed the link.

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## Kosuki

I like both but I lean toward Mors ^^
I have to read his book thanks for link

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## Rick

That's great, Gene. I'm happy for you. You know you're stuff so it should be a good show.

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## sgtmcboom

I dunno stranded somewhere with no way of getting food bear would keep you alive longer. He would do something stupid and get himself killed and you have about 200lbs of food right there.

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## hunter63

With what he eats, and drinks.....I don't know if I would eat that.

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## Kosuki

Nothing wrong with snake blood, and tree bark grubs with a side of slug slime ^^

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## Sarge47

> Nothing wrong with snake blood, and tree bark grubs with a side of slug slime ^^


Along with a pint of urine!     :Creepy:

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## asemery

Check out Four Dog Stove Company.  They have Mors Kochanski books and pamphlets for sale and on October are offering a 7 day "Wilderness Skills- Total Immersion" course led by Kochanski.  Tony

http://fourdog.com/

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## sgtmcboom

> With what he eats, and drinks.....I don't know if I would eat that.


People eat raccoon and they eat some nasty things to lol. And shrimp are cockroaches of the sea and people pay good money for those.

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## Sarge47

> Check out Four Dog Stove Company.  They have Mors Kochanski books and pamphlets for sale and on October are offering a 7 day "Wilderness Skills- Total Immersion" course led by Kochanski.  Tony
> 
> http://fourdog.com/


I bought mine here, they're a bit cheaper.

http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderne..._Bushcraft.htm
 :Thumbup1:

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## jeffbanke

Hi Guys, new to the forum, but new to the subject, at the ripe old age of 65 :-)
BG, is fun to watch for his showmanship, Mears I have never seen, but John Wiseman is the guy I want with me, have used his book for years to teach my students.

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## MiddleWolf

I would just watch them all for various bits of information that can generate ideas for further thought.  I can practice many of the suggestions they put up to see, but can use common sense to eliminate or do more research on the ones that are more critical in nature.  And most of the shows show the disclaimer that crews are there and in some cases, local experts give the hosts hints and information on the flora and fauna in that area.  Just don't take every word they speak as Gospel with out testing.

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## SfS

I love Bear Grylls, alot of what he does is dangerous, but when in dire circumstances, you risk nothing you gain nothing. I've recently been watching Dual Survival and will be getting the Survivorman series on DVD.

I agree with the above post, you learn something differant from all of them and they are all useful in their own forms. What Bear puts his body through is amazing, but it just goes to show it can be done. Cody is great he showed how to make a container out of a tree stump by burning the inner bark with coals, which i've never seen done or heard of before.

Every survival show in my opinion has their strong points and their let downs.

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## Sarge47

Made some comments in red.     :Yes: 




> I love Bear Grylls, alot of what he does is dangerous,  Like drinking his own urine.
> 
> 
> but when in dire circumstances, you risk nothing you gain nothing.  .That does not excuse putting your life in further danger,
> 
> 
> I've recently been watching Dual Survival and will be getting the Survivorman series on DVD.  I have it, it's really great.  Hope you've been watching the new Survivorman series.  The last episode was great, Les was subtly slamming Grylls.  Ironically Les is still on Discovery and Grylls has been fired!
> 
> I agree with the above post, you learn something differant from all of them and they are all useful in their own forms. What Bear puts his body through is amazing, but it just goes to show it can be done.   Only be strong, young, athletic young folks.
> ...

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## jfeatherjohn

On Monday, DC did a four hour MvW marathon, which I DVRer.
While watching it, later, my thought was, "OMG, he fell down, again."
Now, during this marathon, he did cover some solid skills, while falling into riverd, falling into crevases, falling off of vines, etc.
I will continue to watch MvW, but one episode at a time. I think thrre is a limit to how many times one can fall in 60 minutes.
As for being stranded with him, I'd say "see ya", because I wouldn't want yo be stuck taking care of his impetuously broken leg.
I"ve got some You Tubing to do, because I think that I have missed some important stuff. Thanks for that, folks.

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## jfeatherjohn

PS...Grylls is off DC?
Wow, the Outdoor channel is going to have a field day; Hawke, Canterbury, and noe Grylls up for grabs...

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## Sarge47

> PS...Grylls is off DC?
> Wow, the Outdoor channel is going to have a field day; Hawke, Canterbury, and noe Grylls up for grabs...


Yo FJ, keep the news about the Hawkes on the down-low...we wouldn't want to depress Hunter, o.k.?     :Innocent:

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## SurvivorMama

lol definitely without Grylls: I don't want to die having to take care of his injuries from his stupid hyperactive antics (ok with medic and production crew, but should not be present to gullible public). Funny tv but not reality.

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## SurvivorMama

Amen. It seemed that Dave Canterbury had a flashback to a civil war documentary and thought it would be a cool idea to gunpowder a non-lifethreatening would. He would have been better off to urinate on it and seal it up than do that. It was not a heavy bleeder. He lost just a bit of credulity with that, but the thing with survival is that it is ultimately a solitary pursuit, so you figure out what works for you or Darwin takes over. I still watch all these guys when possible (exc for BG) just to  get their perspectives. Like any advice, the listener decides what to do with the given information. That is the fun of it all and is why forums and groups like this exist.

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## hunter63

> Yo FJ, keep the news about the Hawkes on the down-low...we wouldn't want to depress Hunter, o.k.?


What........Why didn't see this coming?.....Aw man...bummer.....

BTW, who carries gunpowder to cauterize wounds?....Shooting stuff, yes......This ranks in the category of Mr Dumas.....

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## dutch hermit

Dual Survival, Survivorman and Ray mears shows.. I've seen every single episode of these shows and I love 'em.
After watching a few episodes of Bear's Ultimate survival I knew enough.. this is ment to entertain people instead of teaching them anything about survival. I do not treat the forest asif it was a parkour course and I would not eat raw meat while i have the tools to cook it.

Hyper active folk also tend to get on my nerves and the merchandise he sells (survival knife etc) turn out to be rubbish.
So yeah.. give me Mears  :Smile:

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## Faiaoga

I hate to get involved in arguments about who is the best and who is real/fake, but please allow me to provide information that others may not have.  I have not seen many of the survival shows, but I was interested to see "Survival in Samoa" by Ray Mears on the Internet.  Mears did not attempt to do anything new but showed some of the techniques used by Samoan villagers.  I think he did a good job without a lot of hype.

I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Samoa (Western Samoa) and can attest to the techniques shown.  For example, Mears shows moray eels being captured in a box trap.  That technique is used to capture small morays (the large ones can be poisonous) to cook on hot stones for the Sunday dinner.  I lived with a Samoan family and helped pepare the meals many times.  I support Ray Mears for informative, low key films.
Faiaoga ("schoolteacher" in Samoan)

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## Dolphin

Grylls is my man, sorry Survivorman fans

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## Sarge47

> Grylls is my man, sorry Survivorman fans


Don't apologize, just try to find the poor slob some work, ok?  According to Les' website he'll soon be back on the tube teaching survival!       :clap:   :Thumbup:

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## kyratshooter

It's OK Sarge, he only has seven posts.  

Give him time to read three more threads and make two or three more posts and he will realize he knows more than Bear and change sides.

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## Sarge47

> It's OK Sarge, he only has seven posts.  
> 
> Give him time to read three more threads and make two or three more posts and he will realize he knows more than Bear and change sides.


Yeah, your right, meanwhile here's something for the rest of us!

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bear-g...wn-piss/photos

Enjoy!     :2:

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## japs8944

BG does a lot of things that I believe are far to dangerous to acctually do, He takes risks tha I woud not in an acctual survival situation. I love Ray Meres for his spiritual look on at nature I am also a huge Dae Canterburry fan.

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## BoltActionJLA

Les Stroud lol

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## Sarge47

> Les Stroud lol


...and YOU are?.... :Ph34r:

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## BoltActionJLA

Lol new guy Jesse :P i posted on the hello board as well

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## High Desert Wanderer

> Ray Mears was asked a while back if people could learn anything from Bear Gryll's TV shows and replied- "Yes, how not to make TV programmes", meaning he didn't think much of Grylls as a survivalist.
> Personally I think both guys shows are okay because on the one hand Mears teaches us how to work with nature, and Grylls shows us how not to fear it.
> So can I ask forum members this question-"Who would you rather be stranded in the middle of nowhere with, Grylls or Mears?"


I'd have to spend a week in the wild with both of them in order to make a determination as to who is the true and most skilled wilderness survivor. Based on watching Bear's show and Ray's videos, I would have to say that Ray Mears is superior.

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## Davidlastink

One thing people don't give credit for with bears is that he is applying Hot survival to normal survival conditions.

That is to say, Hot Pursuit survival tactics, you know when u need to get out of the fire and to a location ASAP. He moves the farthests/ fastest of any "survival" expert I have seen but his method is not tailored to your normal I need rescue come help survival. It is tailored to behind enemy lines operations kind of survival.

That said, I'd take Ruth along, and she wouldn't even have to drink my pee.

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## ktomes_340

Mears, definitely. With all the press on Grylls cheating on his television programs, I just don't trust him. In reality, I would choose Les Stroud over both of them. Just my opinion....

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## garden-ed

Ruth is Hot yummy yummy

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## Nighthawk01

Ray Mears seems to know his stuff. Bear Grills , you really don't want my opinion of him . Manwoman wild thing was ace , I think they both were hot  :fishface:

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## dave fuches

since i've never heard of mears i'd have to vote for grylls. bear grylls occasionally gives some bad advice and takes unnecessary chances for the sake of dramatic effect but i've learned a lot from his show's episodes  :Smile:

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## crashdive123

> since i've never heard of mears i'd have to vote for grylls. bear grylls occasionally gives some bad advice and takes unnecessary chances for the sake of dramatic effect but i've learned a lot from his show's episodes


Check out Ray Mears on Youtube.  I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

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## dave fuches

hey crash you were right. i'm halfway through episode 2 of season 2 (just clicked it at random) and i am pleasantly surprised. i've bookmarked this youtube channel for further examination.

i am curious though, i haven't yet had time to research it yet; the shows appear to be clones of each other, they both even have the british accent and i'm curious - which one came first?

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## crashdive123

I do believe that Mears has been "doing the survival thing" longer than Grylls.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...zy-stunts.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...ar-Grylls.html

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## dave fuches

i didn't know this. gonna watch a few more episodes of mears tonight.

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## dave fuches

i didn't know this. gonna watch a few more episodes of mears tonight. sorry didn't reason the other post went through.

i may convert  :Frown:  lol

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## zeroed4x

Grylls is o.k. to watch, I truly enjoy watching Les Stroud. He less scripted and when you watch him he reenforces the knowledge you have while sometimes picking up a new trick or two.

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## Seniorman

Grylls' "survival" shows are strictly for teevee entertainment and his "situations" are staged for dramatic, most often, outrageous effect.

Mears is producing his shows for educational viewing and his "situations" show practical means and techniques for solving a problem in the outdoors.

Both are very successful in their show business fields, which are different.

For those who knock Grylls for his presentations, I'd bet a lot of money that if Grylls were to find himself in a real down-and-dirty, live-or-die situation, he'd be able to use his survival knowledge and skills to get out of it.  I'd also bet he'd never try those flamboyent stunts he performs in his videos to "come home alive." He certainly knows the difference between reality and "show biz."

Just my opinion.

S.M.

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## crashdive123

> Grylls' "survival" shows are strictly for teevee entertainment and his "situations" are staged for dramatic, most often, outrageous effect.
> 
> Mears is producing his shows for educational viewing and his "situations" show practical means and techniques for solving a problem in the outdoors.
> 
> Both are very successful in their show business fields, which are different.
> 
> For those who knock Grylls for his presentations, I'd bet a lot of money that if Grylls were to find himself in a real down-and-dirty, live-or-die situation, he'd be able to use his survival knowledge and skills to get out of it.  I'd also bet he'd never try those flamboyent stunts he performs in his videos to "come home alive." He certainly knows the difference between reality and "show biz."
> 
> Just my opinion.
> ...


That was probably one of the better assessments of the show and his talents that I have read.

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## dave fuches

i agree and after watching mears for 4 episodes now i understand the difference between entertainment and educational. i've always enjoyed finding mistakes or downright wrong advice on "man vs wild" and will still enjoy his show. 

my own personal "first rule of survival" is to NOT risk injury and bear breaks this rule on each and every single episode.

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## Skittish Prepper

i'm a ray mears fan myself. he's much more down-to-earth  :Smile:

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## percmo

I always try to look beyond DC's attempts at ratings when finding a show I deem to be worthy of my viewing time. Both are active and knowledgeable in their fields. I do tend to lean more towards the "bushcraft" style of survival however and therefore feel Mears is better prepared for that arena. With that said.... either man, is better prepared to deal with a true "survival" type scenario than the majority of folks who today inhabit our spoiled rotten, me first, entitlement ridden world.

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## Thx

I've watched most of the survivor shows, and one thing that occurs to me is many seem to just "suffer through it" and if they had to survive for much longer than their appointed time, on many occasions they would starve.

Are they just "surviving" on the body fat they accumulate between shows, are they just barely "surviving" as opposed to "thriving"?

Also, Bear Grylls does seem to take some awful risks, Les Stroud is more likely to just "tough it out" than take risky moves.

But I do feel a lot can be learned and they certainly are entertaining.

What I'm waiting for is a full-blown "homeless" survival show, lol.

Thx  :Smile:

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## BushTech

Here's why I like Ray Mears: HE DOESN'T PUT HIMSELF IN HARMS WAY for ratings. He is purely educational. He understands that it's not necessary for him to be in a 'survival situation' in order to teach. Makes it seem more genuine and heart-felt to me - plus a better learning experience. Take Bear.... His running around in the woods, taking massive leaps, drinking urine, doing flips... WHATEVER... it can all be very distracting to the viewer and can work against what the show is trying to teach.

That being said, I do respect Grylls and I believe he was doing what he was told by the TV networks, and he IS a very well educated and successful man.

Without a doubt I'd choose Mears over ALL the TV survivors, even over Cody Lundin. But if I could pick from ANYONE, it would be John & Geri McPherson hands down. And hopefully we would go visit Angus Baptiste in our travels.

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## onehikes

I like to watch both shows each has their strong points. Les Shroud is the best. Not much of a fan of Cody though except for humor. He needs to man up and put on big boy underwear.

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## Kudos

Personally I prefer Mears as he has a better approach to presenting Survival Techniques and overall seems to be more sound in what he does.

However, my favorite has to be Dave Canterbury and I feel it was a shame that he was dropped from Dual Survivor. Dave has inspired me to learn and practice new techniques and his "Common Man" videos bring things down to a practical and affordable level.

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## Rick

I am a student of the Hunter63 School of Primitive Beauty. I sorta favor Ruth England. Sadly, she and I alone on a deserted island would lead quickly to my death at her hands. I'll let your imagination conjure up the reason for my demise.

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## Kudos

Best advice Rick....drink plenty of water and eat lots of protein and you may just survive the experience.

There is also a Joke in there about your Last words....but this is a family show LOL

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## hunter63

Ruth is HOT......

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## crashdive123

> Ruth is HOT......


Careful now.  You're still recuperating.

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## Kabong01

> Ray Mears.  However, Lofty Wiseman is my personal preference.


Lofty Wiseman was asked who he preferred. He didn't rate either BG or Ray Mears.

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## crashdive123

> Lofty Wiseman was asked who he preferred. He didn't rate either BG or Ray Mears.


Are you going to keep it a secret as to who he picked?

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## Kabong01

He picked neither one. There a clip of him answering the question on Youtube called John 'LOFTY' Wiseman on RAY MEARS and BEAR GRYLLS

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## WhiteHorse3340

I decided quite some time ago that BG had to have been some kind of crazy, or smoking something to be that hyped up while doing survival shows.  I stopped watching him, and have digested every other bit of survival shows I can get my eyeballs on...be it Les Stroud, Ruth and Mykel Hawke, or Dave Canterbury (You can still catch a lot of Dave's stuff on Youtube) Cody Lundin and Joe Teti.

Back when I used to watch BG, I was like...WHAT is this dude running through that forest from?  HOW fast do you REALLY need to get up that cliff?  And yes, He is REALLY going to eat/drink THAT?

And Thx, I agree strongly with what you said...so many times it feels like they are just trying to make it to that last day...and homeless, or...NOT knowing when they are going to be rescued would be good, too.  I often find myself saying something to the effect of "yeah, but what if you weren't being rescued tomorrow."  

The "Naked and Afraid" series is a little more realistic, but I just can't get into it, and I have watched it about four or five times, with different people starring, but I just can't get into it.

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## Lamewolf

Well, I've never read or seen anything of Mear's so I can't comment on him.  But I have watched Grylls a few times and was somewhat shocked at what I saw and thought this guy is trying to teach folks how to kill themselves !  On the few of his shows I did watch, I saw him build a shelter on the banks of a fast moving stream that showed evidence of flash flooding where he could get washed away if a storm came thorugh.  Then he went back into the woods to find dry fuel to build a fire then burnt his hands after he built the fire and tried to carry it back to camp - whats wrond with taking the dry fuel to camp and then build the fire ?  Also heard him say, "I can't positively identify this mushroom as non poisonous but I'm so hungry I'm going to eat it anyway" ?  First, mushrooms don't have much food value to begin with and some of them can kill in minutes, so is it worth the risk ?  I think not !  Then on one show I see him squeezing water from elephant dung - folks, parasites can cause a slow painful death and I'm sure there would be parasites in elephant dung !  All of his shows should start with a warning "Do not try this at home, in camp, in the wilderness, or anywhere else - doing so can cause sickness, injury, and or death" !  Gotta use common sense ! :Cursing:

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## alexpeacock200

Les stroud.

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## Sluggo

Dragging up an older post,but this has always been a thorn in my side.1st I like watching survival shows,but I betcha not for the same reasons as the majority do.I could care less about the shock value,I could care less about the humor ratings and really could care less about the drama required to keep the show up and running.If I had to pick one it would be Ray Mears,but only for the fact that the shows he did were educationally motivated,at least they ended up that way.As far as BG,he appears drama motivated,LS,seems nice enough,but some things he attempted were obviously non practiced,he fumbled way to often on simple task that should have been easy in the given situation.DC,this dude is way to excitable,and ego driven,he is the fellow that would try all the double dog dares,not good,.maybe all of them could be valuable if you need drama,comic relief,folksy,I can do anything you can do better type of person.Yep I'll just take them all,that way when a huge bear attacks,BG can dramatize it,LS can confuse it,DC can challenge it,RM can educate it, all I gotta do is outrun the slow one

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## Lil K

I haven't watched a whole lot of Mears, but Grylls isn't that great either. My brother likes to say they are "fake". In a way this is very true, but you gotta go further than just surviving in the wilderness. It's about what Grylls does that is amazing... even if his camera crew is there to help  :Big Grin:

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## Walter2

I'm taking Grylls, why? Because his military training should have thought him to get home at any cost.

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## Lamewolf

> I'm taking Grylls, why? Because his military training should have thought him to get home at any cost.


Yeah, that's right.  But he might get home in a body bag too !

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## Lamewolf

> Les stroud.


What I've seen of Les was alright, but one of my favorites was Ron Hood (God rest his soul).  Ron knew what he was doing and taught it the right way.  Didn't put a lot of sensationalism in it - just facts.  When he made mistakes, he told you about it so you could learn from it.  Like on one of his videos he ate a false morel and got sick.  He didn't try to hide the fact !  Too bad cancer took him so early in life !

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## ElevenBravo

Ruth IS hot, and the less she talks, the hotter she gets.

BG is a zero not a hero in my book.   Less, AFAIK..  honestly runs it solo, but I dont know what kind of hidden pogie bait he has stashed off cam, and... some of the stuff he does is un safe (busting coconuts on a sharpened stick, looks like a puncture wound waiting to happen). 

Additionally, if you even think for a second that Less doesnt get a few daze expert instruction for the environment JUST PRIOR to going into his project, then you have been had.

Dave and Cody...  Its like watching a modern version of The Odd Couple, its good entertainment and I enjoy it.. and thats as far as it goes.

Myke and Ruth, sigh.. yet again a scripted "survival" show.  They are a handsome couple, cute chick for the guys... and handsome man for the girls, but I question his service record, because I tend to question EVERYONES service record.  Its so easy to be a cook in kitchen for 2 years and claim to be SF for 20...   

Stolen bravado has me on guard for anyone claiming to have service and training they cant backup with documents (This is why you never see me make claims outside of any documents I have!)

So, this leaves us with Ray.  Its been said that Ray is the only one that can go into the bush for a week and come out with gained weight!  HA HA!  I thought it was humorous.  Anywho, Ray doesnt put on a fake front and is down to earth.  Ive not YET seen him (AFAIK) claim to survive for a week with a pocket knife and 6" of duct tape, he doesnt seam to make outlandish claims, or scenarios.  He seams to put together a wholesome and simple show giving factual information.   Rays show is a bit dry, you wont miss any pulse racing action when you go grab another beer, but for a tired old grunt like me, hes going my speed so Im good with all that.

One thing that trips my trigger are the dolts that actually encourage you to drink your own pee to survive..   For me, everything they said before and after that statement has just been greatly diminished.

EB

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## hunter63

Seems that the only thing we all agree on...Ruth is HOT...or was 2 years ago.....

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## Logarius

Pretty women who are willing to get their hands dirty are all hot.  I love my wife will do traditional "guy stuff" we laugh a lot.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## The Killer Tuna

> I'm taking Grylls, why? Because his military training should have thought him to get home at any cost.


I'm taking Ray because wherever you are might as well be home. He's the real deal. Also Less, speaking of whom... They are filming Survivorman again starting this fall. I like the fact that he does it solo. Of course people will say that it's easy if you have a sat-phone, and people who will come pick you up. But I'm here to tell you that solo is never easy for me, so I give him props for that. 

...and he's seen BigFoot...LOL

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## Logarius

Solo with backup is smart. He is demonstrating not stuck by circumstance.  If I was making a show to teach don't think for a minute I wouldn't load the deck so if things go south no one dies.


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## Tokwan

Did someone mention Ruth?

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## ElevenBravo

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ruth...w=1024&bih=489

My small contribution to the thread...
EB

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## Tokwan

Whoooo wwweeeeeee.....I made sure the wife is not behind me when I viewed this pic...hahahahahaha....I have already saved US$4k....need to save another 4k to make my trip to USA again......

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## ElevenBravo

Thats a plan my friend!  Keep us informed on your progress.

EB

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## Tokwan

Yep...I think US$8k would suffice as I can sleep almost anywhere....don't need them fancy hotels...even a barn will do...now, the next thing is where to go..I wanna do some hiking, camping, kayak (no crocs and gators of course).....and maybe ...taste some moonshine.

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## crashdive123

Plan your trip around one of our Jamboree's (we've been having them in October).

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## Lamewolf

> Seems that the only thing we all agree on...Ruth is HOT...or was 2 years ago.....


Just remember, no matter how good looking a woman is, somebody, somewhere it tired of her crap !  :Argue:

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## hunter63

> Just remember, no matter how good looking a woman is, somebody, somewhere it tired of her crap !


Yeah...heh, heh, heh.....You maybe correct......

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## Lamewolf

> Yeah...heh, heh, heh.....You maybe correct......


Buddy, you know I am ! LOL

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## Lamewolf

> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=ruth...w=1024&bih=489
> 
> My small contribution to the thread...
> EB


I work with a young lady that looks like her !

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## Tokwan

Crashdive, I am planning for the 2015 jamboree...so that I have more than enough money ...I wouldn't wanna be working for food and lodging when I visit there. The main issue is the currency exchange, that is why I need to save more..your $1 is equivalent to 3 of mine. or 3.2 ...so I need to save more. Hate taking out my present savings..

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## crashdive123

No need to worry about food - at least during the Jamboree.  We manage to bring enough food for the 10 other people that we hoped would come.

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## Joker1970

i dont think ive ever seen this mears guy survival show at all,but he gots
 to be better than Bear Grylls!!!! In my opinion Mr. Grylls shows people how to survive in situations that most people will never even come close to being in...... He wants to think hes the goto guy on how to survive in the wild,well then come to my woods,and show me how to build a shelter to keep u warm,dry and safe from scavengers and predators(animals) that most normal people have a chance of seeing,or situations regular people might find themselves in.........for instance maybe he can do a show where he visits a off the grid community camp,show them how to procure water,food,shelter clothing and medicinal plants of that region,maybe teach them how to make and store  electricity for lights and radio power for emergencys or how to treat minor illness or injury in the wildl(for normal people)show them how to treat these kinds of things to keep them from becoming serious illnesses or injuries.........thats just a little of what i can say on this subject,i could think of about a million other things he could show on his series that us "NORMAL" survivalist/off the grid community officials/doomsday preppers culd actually use............ill bet if he had to he couldnt catch a catfish even if he were made of stink bait & chicken liver and was fishin wiith a throw net in a fish hatchery......lol

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## kyratshooter

> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=ruth...w=1024&bih=489
> 
> My small contribution to the thread...
> EB


Good link but you posted the only photo out of 4,000 where she has clothes on!

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## Logarius

Down Boy!  Remember she is somebody's daughter.  I bet the guy has 40  acres somewhere, and you might not be missed!!! LOL


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## Michael aka Mac

Hmm curious what the original posted had in mind when he said Bear or Mears..  Which one would I rather mmet?  Rather have in a survival situation? Rather watch on TV?  or which was better in survival situations.  

With regard to Grylls,  I should point out that it is like thinking MacGyver really knew how to fix all those things in the tv show, or should i say Richard Dean Anderson. In reality it was the writers of the show that had any mental know how.  It is the reverse in the case of Grylls tv show, he had the brains while the producers had the stupid notion of making this a Fear Factor type show and adding stupid A$$ what not.  I thought this was relevant: *On 16 May 1998, Bear Grylls achieved what was thought to be impossible, climbing to the summit of Mount Everest in Nepal, 18 months after breaking three vertebrae in a parachuting accident.*

before you judge either  here is a little background on the 2 including their training and ins some cases there lack of/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Grylls#Expeditions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Mears

either way  I found them both to be entertaining,  Cody Lundins Partner from 1st season on other hand  not so much.

Anyway, I personally admire anyone that climbs Mt Everest esp. after breaking 3 vertebrate.  About 4,000 people have reached that summit and Bear is one of them.

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## Rick

Everest or no Everest, I don't a very high opinion of him.

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## madmax

Bear is a bad ***.  But like some other bad ***', he got a big head and went for the $$$.  Kinda like, say, Navy seals writing books about their active duty.
Where Bear lost me, I didn't really watch him much before anyway,  was when he gave himself an enema with bilge water.  Over the top Hollywood crap.

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## WolfVanZandt

There are several videos around of Bear Grylls drinking urine "to survive". Doesn't seem like a very good role model.

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## crashdive123

The man has skills.  There is no doubt about that.  Many of the things that he promotes doing are because he knows that he has support around him.  For example drinking urine when in a few hours you'll be drinking a beer at the hotel is not that big a deal.  If his show was more honest (all those type shows for that matter) I would have a lot more respect for the "survivalists".

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## Michael aka Mac

> Bear is a bad ***.  But like some other bad ***', he got a big head and went for the $$$.  Kinda like, say, Navy seals writing books about their active duty.
> Where Bear lost me, I didn't really watch him much before anyway,  was when he gave himself an enema with bilge water.  Over the top Hollywood crap.


Despite how disgusting that was,  It is a viable way to hydrate. The small intestines are where we absorb most of our water. When water is contaminated, drinking it would incur numerous gastro intestinal issues (amongst other things) but via an enema, the intestines are able to handle this contamination without resulting in sickness. It all comes down to how the contaminated water enters your system.

Personally i would rather a beer or Guinness Stout, lol.

I think my biggest problem with Grylls is all the unnecessary risks that he takes. It seems  he always takes the fastest, most dangerous route. Some of his winter climbing techniques though were impressive, like using the snow itself as an anchor as a means to repel down a mountain by creating a deep circular platform in the snow.  I have honestly never seen that technique done before and thinking about the method, the physics  is sound.  Not sure if I would try that though.

Think I would even enjoy his shows more if there were more "Brains" (Bushcraft and innovative ways of creating stuff)  and less "Bronze" ( Tarzan'ing from tree to tree or one section of a cliff to another)

And Drinking urine is never a smart idea.

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