# General > General Guns & Ammo >  A HUGE Word of Caution on the Beretta 9000S

## Ken

A word of caution on the Beretta 9000S

Over the years, there have been a few times when I've acquired several firearms in one transaction.  One such transaction included an almost brand-new 9 mm Beretta 9000S that I cleaned, locked away, and never fired until last October.  I decided to read up on this little gem before I took it to the range for the first time.  I'm glad I did.

One common thread in many articles about the 9000S is about various problems with the ambidextrous thumb safety.  Apparently, the safety is DESIGNED to decock the hammer when moved to the safe position, and there have been several reported instances of assortede problems with the safety features on this model.

I brought my 9000S to the range and fired 10 rounds down range with no problem.  The gun itself felt a bit clumsy and lacking in accuracy, even for the first 10 I ever fired.  So on to the next step...

I decided to test the safety.  I made sure the chamber was empty, inserted a full magazine, and chambered a round.  With the hammer fully cocked, I aimed at a target 35' away with my finger off the trigger - moved the safety from the "fire" position to the "safe" position and HAMMER DECOCKED AND THE GUN FIRED.  

I'm not sure if this thing malfunctioned or if it's supposed to work that way (see articles linked below) but IMHO this gun is one dangerous POS to carry.

I dropped the magazine, cleared the chamber, and locked the gun in my truck.  The gun was cleaned when I returned home, and it's been locked away ever since.  My anger has subsided enough that I'm ready to contact Beretta about my little experience.  No matter what Beretta tells me - even if takes the gun back for repair service - I will never carry or fire this weapon again.

Here are a couple of links on the 9000S.  There are several more articles out there if you search for them.


http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-429894.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233162

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## welderguy

Yet Another reason for me to stick with the 1911 platform!

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## hunter63

Thanks for the heads up......

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## kyratshooter

Seems fitting!

The Baretta is a reworked Walther p38, which also had this problem.  

I guess the apple does not fall far from the tree.

The only Baretta I could ever cozy up too was the 951.  You generally just ignored the safety on those and treated it like a Soviet TT.  Lower the hammer manually when not in use and thumb it back when you want to shoot.

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## Ken

> Seems fitting!
> 
> The Baretta is a reworked Walther p38, which also had this problem.  I guess the apple doesn not fall far from the tree.


This is the second one I've owned.  No such problem with the first, which makes me even more concerned.

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## kyratshooter

> This is the second one I've owned.  No such problem with the first, which makes me even more concerned.


That's easy to explain!  It was that assembly persons' first day on the job at the safety installation station on the assembly line.  They got the little thing-a-mabob behind the divit instead of in front of the divit.

There are some weapons that have that warning; "do not disassemble further for cleaning" for a reason!  They can't even get it right at the factory!

I worked as a gunsmith for 20 years and did it full time through grad school and there are certain guns I will not mess with even with the instructions in front of me.  Most double action automatic trigger and safety assemblies are among that group, along with the Colt Woodsman and Remington Nylon 66.

"Back in the day"  there were a limited number of actions and designs and one could keep up with the features, design principles and operation secquences.  There are so many models and brands and ultracomplex designs available today it is impossible to know what is the cause of which problem unless one specializes in a specific pistol.

So, what does a lawyer do with a 'bad pistol"?  Sell it, trade it off, sue Baretta, sit on it as a bad investment?

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## Ken

> So, what does a lawyer do with a 'bad pistol"?  Sell it, trade it off, sue Baretta, sit on it as a bad investment?


Not sure.  I've come into possession of a few guns over the years that were so dangerous that I actually had them destroyed.  The Raven .25 comes to mind.  I've also given a few away (with a warning) to guys with significant firearms experience.  Thing about both 9000s' is that both were given to me.  Nothing lost.

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## hunter63

Have had a few old pieces that were 'wall hangers' too loose to feel save with, but looked like wall hangers....not sure what you would do with a pistol?

If it were me I'd be on the horn with Custoner Service.

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## 2dumb2kwit

I just never had any faith in a decocker. In my little brain, it's just too easy for one to malfunction and do great harm.

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## karatediver

I don't have much faith in decockers either.  Everytime I've had to use one I've expected it to go off.  Even shooting the M-9 in military training I would lower the hammer with my thumb any time the instructor wasn't looking because I worried it would go off.  It may not ever happen but I just don't feel comfortable doing it.

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## hunter63

There is already something wrong...even with the word...."decocker"......(what? we don't have a "shuddering smiley?)

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## kyratshooter

Fear of a decocker depends on the system!

I did see one of the old wartime P38 pistols discharge when the BIL dropped thehammer, back around 1976.  Put a hole in the MIL kitchen floor  Funny how you remember things like that.  There was a good deal of screaming and yelling involved, BIL hopping around, people holding their ears...

The old S&W double action autos rolled a block of steel in front of the hammer before it dropped.

The PPK and p38 locked the firing pin and dropped the hammer on the locked pin, so do many of the new series, like the Barettas. 

That always disturbed me.

However, even with the old S&W system I was always looking for a safe direction to point the pistol before I dropped that hammer.

I have also been one that wanted to thumb down the hammer whenever possible.  Now I have a couple of DAO models and SA/DA types with NO HAMMER!

What does a feller do in that situation?

Oddly enough, I am so old school I often walk out on the back porch to load these guns and chamber that first round!

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