# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  Long-term food storage

## UnknownWarrior

Does any of you store food / ration for an year or so? What foods do you store and how?

----------


## Rick

UW - There is a religious organization here in the States called the Latter Day Saints. They are also referred to as Mormans. Part of their teaching is the storage of a years worth of food supplies. You can use their calculator to determine how much and what type of food you need for a year. Just plug in how many folks aged 7 and older you have and how many children younger than 7 years old are in your household then click on calculate. 

http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> UW - There is a religious organization here in the States called the Latter Day Saints. They are also referred to as Mormans. Part of their teaching is the storage of a years worth of food supplies. You can use their calculator to determine how much and what type of food you need for a year. Just plug in how many folks aged 7 and older you have and how many children younger than 7 years old are in your household then click on calculate. 
> 
> http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm


Very nice food calculator. I'm amaZed at your knowledge, Rick. Thank you.

----------


## Chris

Winter squash can keep a year on a shelf in a cool dark room.

Canned preserves can keep for over a year as well.

I do both.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> Winter squash can keep a year on a shelf in a cool dark room.
> 
> Canned preserves can keep for over a year as well.
> 
> I do both.


I'd really like to do canning for some fruits, tomatoes, spinach (I think it's the one veggie full of almost all minerals and nutrients you need - I've lived on spinach+rice for over a month) etc. But I am a total a newbie in this. I have some good sites to read yet but one small question - is it possible to use metal containers for canning since glass jars are fragile.

----------


## crashdive123

While you do run the risk of breaking the jars, IMO they are a better option for canning (at least for me).  I can see the food.  It is relatively easy to do.  The jars (not the lids) can be used over and over again.  Additionally the specialized equipment to do retort canning can be expensive and space consuming.  They may make small units - I'm just not aware of any if they do.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

Somewhere I had read about tins used for canning, I think on Wikipedia. Do they last as long as glass jars?

----------


## crashdive123

UW - I'm not sure about the shelf life of home canned items in a can vs a jar.  I know that commercially canned (cans) can (sorry for so many cans) be viable for a long time.

----------


## pocomoonskyeyes

> UW - I'm not sure about the shelf life of home canned items in a can vs a jar.  I know that commercially canned (cans) can (sorry for so many cans) be viable for a long time.


I think last year(or the year before) they opened a 100 year old can and found that it was still good.(it was undamaged) Just last week the Guy retiring from the service ate a 40 year old canned pound cake from vietnam era C-rations. So I think the important thing is that it be undamaged. I've opened a damaged can before and there was no doubt,it was bad, I could smell it. Damaged can = garbage,in my book. Look to make sure it is sealed.

----------


## Rick

We're going to test that winter squash thing, Chris. This is my first year at growing them. It's my understanding that I will leave them on until the vine has turned brown or until the first frost, whichever is later. Dip the squash in a mild bleach solution to kill any nasties on the outside and then store. If anyone knows a better/different way, pipe up. Inquiring minds want to know!!

----------


## UnknownWarrior

I am yet to buy a canner. I had seen on some solarcookers' site, a pic of tomatoes being canned in the solar oven. If that can be done, I don't need to buy the canner right?

----------


## crashdive123

I've got no experience with solar canning.

----------


## Rick

Nor do I. I pressure can and also use a hot water bath depending on what I'm putting up.

----------


## Chris

> We're going to test that winter squash thing, Chris. This is my first year at growing them. It's my understanding that I will leave them on until the vine has turned brown or until the first frost, whichever is later. Dip the squash in a mild bleach solution to kill any nasties on the outside and then store. If anyone knows a better/different way, pipe up. Inquiring minds want to know!!


Let them sit at least a month before eating them at all, they need to ripen like that. Fresh picked winter squash, if you cut it up, will literally burn a layer of skin off your hands, I found out the hard way. 

Even if there are minor wounds, they'll heal in storage and be good. My last I used in late June, so not quite a year, but just because they ran out, not because they went bad.

----------


## Chris

> I am yet to buy a canner. I had seen on some solarcookers' site, a pic of tomatoes being canned in the solar oven. If that can be done, I don't need to buy the canner right?


a canner is really just a big pot. You don't need anything so special.

Oh, and glass jars aren't as fragile as you think, they're pretty sturdy.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> a canner is really just a big pot. You don't need anything so special.
> 
> Oh, and glass jars aren't as fragile as you think, they're pretty sturdy.


Here's the pic of the tomato solar canning:
http://www.cookwiththesun.com/canning.htm

----------


## Winnie

The other thing with using cans for canning is you can only use them once, with glass canning jars apart from the lids they can be used for as long as they remain intact. Some of mine are 30 yrs old and have been used dozens of times.

----------


## rebel_chick

I don't know about canning but i know that FOOD GRADE Diotomaceos Earth can be used in your dry storage and around the house to kill or repell bugs. Can even be used as a dewormer in animals. Also good for people too. You can put it in with your beans or rice etc, and it is all safe and natural.

----------


## TucsonMax

For me, foods safe to store for a year includes: 
- canned: tuna, salmon, sardines, soup, vegetables 
- repackaged: salt, sugar, spices, rice, grains, popcorn
- sealed jars: peanut buter, cooking oils, crisco, unsalted nuts 
- beef jerky, dry pastas, hard candy, coffe/tea

----------


## Rick

Uh, you've never had a year old twinkie have you? Life should be about risks. As long as the inner icing isn't hard as a brick, have at. If it is hard then soak it in coffee first.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> I don't know about canning but i know that FOOD GRADE Diotomaceos Earth can be used in your dry storage and around the house to kill or repell bugs. Can even be used as a dewormer in animals. Also good for people too. You can put it in with your beans or rice etc, and it is all safe and natural.


Here in India, we use Neem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neem) and Tulsi (Holy Basil - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocimum_tenuiflorum) leaves for the above. We have both the Tulsi plant as well as the Neem tree in our orchard. Tulsi is also an air purifier.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> For me, foods safe to store for a year includes: 
> - canned: tuna, salmon, sardines, soup, vegetables 
> - repackaged: salt, sugar, spices, rice, grains, popcorn
> - sealed jars: peanut buter, cooking oils, crisco, unsalted nuts 
> - beef jerky, dry pastas, hard candy, coffe/tea


I don't know about peanut butter but I bought some unsalted groundnuts (I guess peanuts are the same?) so will roast them and try the peanut butter. Does peanut butter store more than an year if put in air tight containers?

----------


## TucsonMax

> Does peanut butter store more than an year if put in air tight containers?


I'm talking about the factory vacuum sealed jars sold in the US, unopened they should last 5 years.

----------


## TomChemEngineer

If you go by the LDS recommendations, please remember to get recipes (and get your family eating the foods) that they recommend. It is a good list, just need to know how to use the 600 pounds of wheat that the calculator recommends for a family of 4! Wheat bread, wheat noodles, baked wheat, all the things that can be made with whole wheat (and don't forget the grinder unless you want to eat a lot of soaked wheat berries!). I tend to go heavier on pastas and beans and rice, and less heavy on "wheat", but that is just me. Don't forget seasoning spices, because you'll really need them to give variety. The calculator also assumes that some source of water can be found and purified for use after about the fourteenth day... if not, you need to figure out storage for 1 gallon per person per day. No meats are shown, so add in the canned soups, canned tuna/salmon/sardines, canned roast beef, canned chicken, etc for the carnivores (and learn how to cook with these, too). Rotate the stocks by fixing and eating what you prep for. Just some thoughts. Your mileage may vary.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

the way i preserve most foods is to dehydrate until crunchy then vacume seal the food in plastic bags. salting foods (like cabbage) is another method. vacume canning is something that i dont often use because of the expence, and the time consuming process, then the clean up..... i have found that dehydrating is best the food stays viable for 3 or more years.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> the way i preserve most foods is to dehydrate until crunchy then vacume seal the food in plastic bags. salting foods (like cabbage) is another method. vacume canning is something that i dont often use because of the expence, and the time consuming process, then the clean up..... i have found that dehydrating is best the food stays viable for 3 or more years.


I'm new even to canning. Now what's this dehydrated food stuff? I'll need to study this thru google.

The advantage I see for dehydrated stuff is that they would take lesser space, no glass jars and can be put in the bug-out bag unlike the canned items.

Is the nutritive value like the canned items? What things / devices are needed to dehydrate? Something like the canner?

----------


## Rick

Dehydrating food is nothing more than removing the water from it. For food to spoil, it must have moisture in it. Remove the moisture and you prevent or at least slow down spoilage. There are a lot of ways of dehydrating food. One very common method is with heat and air. Commercial dehydrators are one way, setting an oven on low and leaving the door open is another. You can use the sun to dry foods or they can be dehydrated by freeze drying. That's where the food is frozen then placed under pressure and heated so the moisture turns to a gas and can be removed. 

As to size and weight, you are correct. Dehydrated foods are much lighter and take up less space. The nutrient value is retained once you re-hydrate the food. And yes, you can store dehydrated food in your BOB. 

All that is required is low heat (around 107 C) and some movement of air. It takes about 8-10 hours depending on the food and moisture content to dry food. Jerky is a form of dehydrated food. Dried fruits are another.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> As to size and weight, you are correct. Dehydrated foods are much lighter and take up less space. The nutrient value is retained once you re-hydrate the food. And yes, you can store dehydrated food in your BOB.


Thank you Rick, for the explaination. I think now I have the options I wanted - one for home food storage and another for the BOB.

I still need to learn this tho, already reading a lot on canning. 




> You can use the sun to dry foods or they can be dehydrated by freeze drying.


No wonder, the ancient people in India worshipped Sun as a god / deity. There's even the Sun Temple in India. I'm sure that this solar energy was also used in ancient civiliZation in many forms, tho it's not documented or have much evidence.

The Sun gives us so much and many things can be done using solar energy ... many more to be discovered by science yet. Should't we be thankful to it?

----------


## oldsoldier

I have used/eaten dehyd foods that have been stored for over 10 years and it still seemed good and tasted just fine.

----------


## oldsoldier

> I'm talking about the factory vacuum sealed jars sold in the US, unopened they should last 5 years.


Some of the USDA "commodity" peanut butter I have seen was packaged in 2000 with an expiration date of 2012 if properly stored.

----------


## edr730

The winter squashes store fine for over a year in northern climates. I have a butternut on my refrigerator, now, from last years season. It's very solid. It was stored in the basement. It was never treated with anything, but you could I guess.

----------


## finallyME

> UW - There is a religious organization here in the States called the Latter Day Saints. They are also referred to as Mormans. Part of their teaching is the storage of a years worth of food supplies. You can use their calculator to determine how much and what type of food you need for a year. Just plug in how many folks aged 7 and older you have and how many children younger than 7 years old are in your household then click on calculate. 
> 
> http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm


Well, I am a Latter Day Saint, and this has been taught to me since I was a kid.  Wheat is the biggest item on the list.  It stores for a LONG time, as long as you keep it dry and away from mice, etc.  My grandfather died a few months ago, and I took his year supply of wheat.  I also took his grinder  :Banana:   He put dates on some of the buckets (I got about 20+ 5 gallon buckets).  I have started to use it to make bread.  I picked the oldest bucket (1973) and the wheat is very fresh and the bread amazing.  The key to food storage is getting food that you would eat, or eating food that you would store.

----------


## crashdive123

> Well, I am a Latter Day Saint, and this has been taught to me since I was a kid.  Wheat is the biggest item on the list.  It stores for a LONG time, as long as you keep it dry and away from mice, etc.  My grandfather died a few months ago, and I took his year supply of wheat.  I also took his grinder   He put dates on some of the buckets (I got about 20+ 5 gallon buckets).  I have started to use it to make bread.  I picked the oldest bucket (1973) and the wheat is very fresh and the bread amazing.  The key to food storage is getting food that you would eat, or eating food that you would store.


For that 26 year old wheat - was it just sealed in the bucket?  Anything special done in the sealing process?

----------


## Winnie

I was just about to ask the same question Crash! Any other info on long term food storage you can share with us would be greatly appreciated FinallyME.

----------


## finallyME

It was just sealed in a bucket.  As long as you keep wheat free of moisture and rodents,  it lasts a long time.  I have heard 50+ years, at least that is what my dad tells me.  Maybe I should ask for a source of his info.  But, from experience, I know it lasts longer than 30.  Also, the good thing about wheat is the nutritional value.  Anecdotally, I have heard it is the most healthy grain for people to eat.  And, a large bucket runs for $15 at the local grocery store.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-55SsJVyhs 

watch this video to see how i preserve food for 3 or more years. it is an exelent method.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> It was just sealed in a bucket.  As long as you keep wheat free of moisture and rodents,  it lasts a long time.  I have heard 50+ years, at least that is what my dad tells me.  Maybe I should ask for a source of his info.  But, from experience, I know it lasts longer than 30.  Also, the good thing about wheat is the nutritional value.  Anecdotally, I have heard it is the most healthy grain for people to eat.  And, a large bucket runs for $15 at the local grocery store.


Here in India, people put neem leaves (kinda insect repellent) in the grains when storing. It's common here to compare wheat to gold in terms of nutritive value. Although I myself eat rice a lot, in my family, wheat is preferred. There are some places in India where wheat is in abundance and that's what's eaten. The people in those states are healthier, mostly, than other states.

----------


## Lorna

The reccommended way to store wheat is to put a little bit in a 5 gal. bucket, on top of that put dry ice and then fill the bucket up the rest of the way. Lay the lid on top but DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT seal the lid. In an hour or two come back and seal the lid (if the dry ice hasn't completely evaporated by this time don't seal the bucket till it has). Your wheat will keep 50+ years easily. I use to give classes on how to store foods for long term, so this is one area I'm fairly knowledgeable.

----------


## Winnie

Lorna, I'm a newbie when it comes to long-term storing (apart from canning, jams and chutney), so if you could supply any info at all I'd be very grateful.

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-55SsJVyhs 
> 
> watch this video to see how i preserve food for 3 or more years. it is an exelent method.


Sorry but I do not like to see a vid of a non-veg item since I don't eat and like non-veg. But could you detail the process to preserve for 3 years as you say?

----------


## UnknownWarrior

> The reccommended way to store wheat is to put a little bit in a 5 gal. bucket, on top of that put dry ice and then fill the bucket up the rest of the way. Lay the lid on top but DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT seal the lid. In an hour or two come back and seal the lid (if the dry ice hasn't completely evaporated by this time don't seal the bucket till it has). Your wheat will keep 50+ years easily. I use to give classes on how to store foods for long term, so this is one area I'm fairly knowledgeable.


How much dry ice is needed for this? And it would be nice if you can explain what it does.

----------


## finallyME

The CO2 (dry ice) pushes out the O2 (oxygen).  That is a pretty clever idea. :clap:

----------


## Skysoldier

Just curious... if the dry ice is in the bottom of the bucket covered with wheat, how do you know when it's completely evaporated?

----------


## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Sky it is on top of the wheat, read it again...

----------


## Rick

I think you can put the dry ice on top or bottom. I've seen folks suggest it both ways. I haven't done this....just read about.

----------


## Lorna

I've always put a couple of handsfull of wheat in the bottom of the bucket and then set the dry ice on top and added the rest of the wheat. If you put it directly on the bottom of the bucket you risk possible cracking the bucket. I also forgot to mention leave a 2 inch head space in your bucket.

----------


## Skysoldier

OK, got all that. Top, bottom, probably doesn't matter too much. But... without opening the lid to inspect (which would defeat the purpose, IMHO) how do you know when the dry ice has completely "melted", so you can seal the container?

----------


## Rick

I would think if the bucket is still cold on the bottom then there is still dry ice in there. Once the ice has sublimated then the bucket won't be cold.

----------


## HanoverDan

On the canning idea      before pressure cooking there was canning using wax on the topas a sealer 
anyone know if this is for longer than a winter or just for one winter

respect
Daniel

----------


## Rick

Canning using wax is still done. I don't use it because it's not a reliable way to can in my mind. However, as long as the seal is good and creates a vaccuum it should be good for as long as any pressure canned jar.

----------


## TomChemEngineer

Wow... memory surge... my momma used to can strawberry preserves and grape jelly with a wax seal on top of the jar. Never did it with anything but jams and jellies, though. I think it was a cost thing...wax at that time was cheaper than lids and rings. Come to think of it, she used non-standard jars to can the preserves, so maybe the lids and rings did not exist for those sizes of recycled mayonnaise jars. She was big on reusing jars, and only had a couple of them crack from the heating. She had basement pantry shelves full of empty jars (and some full ones) when she sold the homeplace, (they went with the house) and I wish I had them now. I never liked digging the wax out of the top, though, 'cause it always left little crumblies of wax in the preserves. Thanks for the diversion down memory lane.

----------


## Jayden Tor

> Uh, you've never had a year old twinkie have you? Life should be about risks. As long as the inner icing isn't hard as a brick, have at. If it is hard then soak it in coffee first.


I have a problem eating something that has a shelf life longer than I do.  Twinkies fit that category.

----------


## Rick

Everyone should have that same philosophy. More twinkies for the kid that way.

----------

