# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  Survivorman/Man vs. Wild.

## mamab

My husband and kids love to watch these shows. Do you think they have anything to actually teach people about surviving in on "have-to" basis?

----------


## donny h

I enjoy watching the shows, but they're just shows.

Both show good survival tips, but Man vs Wild (Bear Gryllis) often shows suicidal behavior, ice climbing, cliff jumping, extended river floats, climbing waterfalls, desert hiking midday, drinking untreated jungle water, the Moab Utah episode showed Bear swimming UNDER a deadfall in a slot canyon, a behavior the locals judge to be flat out stupid.

Watch the shows, but take them with a grain of salt, they are made for entertainment first, survival second.

----------


## tater03

I have seen Man vs. Wild and enjoyed it. But I have not seen Survivorman yet. I don't even know when it airs in our area? I will have to look for it because I think it sounds interesting.

----------


## Chris

Survivorman is more realistic. Man vs. Wild is mostly staged and you know he's not really out there trying to survive.

The only thing about Survivorman though, because it IS real, is it can be boring. There isn't always an animal in the trap, things don't always work, and there is a lot of just sitting there waiting, or walking, walking, walking.

----------


## Bowcatz

I agree, Chris. Survivorman is more realistic. I've only watched a couple of Man vs Wild and I felt the presence of the camera crew behind the lense where as with Les, he had me wondering at times if he was taping his upcoming death. A show where he was cast out to sea in a couple of rafts and living off what he could scrounge from the island had a sense of realness to it. Les looks tired a lot, too. When you are surviving, you don't get much rest and it shows in Les' face. He had me feeling sorry for him when he walked home through the jungle. He got so hot, he laid down in a stream to cool off. Here in Mississippi, I've done the same things many times when I overheated from playing too hard in the woods.

When Bear jumped off into the freezing cold river water on last week's show, I'm thinking a little sarcastically, "Oh, yeah. Right. Sure you do that when surviving. You jump off into rapid water that's going to kill you within fifteen minutes from hypothermia or a broken hip like in the movie _Deliverance_ from back in the 1970s with Burt Reynolds. The only way you are getting me into water like that is with a gun held on me with the hammer back or a huge grizzly is breathing down my neck. I would be thinking I'm dead either way, so why not die slow and cold. It will give me a chance to pray my last prayer.

I'm not downing Bear's show, but it's more for the kinds of people (young ones less than thirty-five years old) who'll do the things he does because they don't know any better or are forced to. Walk in the desert in the middle of the day, swim under floating and jabbing sticks, and drink questionable water are things I wouldn't do. Take the long way around and stay alive. But, I'm the kind of woman that walked fifteen miles home down the Natchez Trace in the middle of the night of 20 degrees Fahrenheit back in December 1986 and wouldn't accept rides from strangers. The engine blew in my car and I wasn't about to stay with it. There are just as many outlaws on the Natchez Trace in Mississippi today as there were in the 1700s. I'd rather get home tired, cold, and hungry than not get home at all. Besides, I had my survival Alice pack in the trunk and it had everything I needed for a cold night in the woods plus my .22 magnum pistol which came in handy halfway through my long, slow walk homeward. I kept a navy pea coat in the trunk, too. When you have an old car, you have to have a survival pack, if you are smart. Especially when you lived like I did way out in the boondocks in Mississippi.

I guess if the Border Patrol or a raping, murdering biker gang were after me, I might do those things Bear did in last week's show where he was dropped off in the desert in the middle of the day, but that would be the only way.

For those that don't know this, be extremely careful when heating stones that are near a body of water like Bear did in last week's show after he got out of the river. Stones will soak up water into small, deep crevices and will explode if heated too fast. I mean shards of stone coming at you with the force to take an eye clean out of the skull. I put stones for such purposes in hot ashes first to drive the water out slowly. Maybe preheat the stones slowly for a couple of hours, if you can afford the time. Even then be careful and get away from them while they are heating in the event they do explode, if you can afford the loss of heat. Heat the stones slowly and then bury them in dry material. That sand looked wet when Bear was burying them to lie on them after they heated the soil. The stones will radiate their heat longer if placed in a dry soil or sand. Been there and done that, and got the small scar on my lip from an exploding stone shard.

----------


## DustyRose

Bowcatz...I know just where you mean...I went from Vicksburg to Jackson to Hattiesburg to the coast during Hurricane Katrina clean up!

As far as a real survival situation goes...speaking from both training and experience...those shows are more like adventure vacations than being really lost or broke down in a remote area.

First of all, you don't see them freaking out, hyperventilating, getting shouting mad and/or crying after figuring out they are really lost and alone...and believe me, you will do them all.

Then, after that...doubt, pity and a heavy emotional tiredness sets in...and if you don't keep your mind busy and keep a positive attitude...depression, detachment, and even lethargy can follow.

Those guys all have such positive attitudes and are so cock-sure...I think it is equal parts training, acting and knowledge they won't die making a TV show.

In the real world you are just trying to remember your survival priorities...taking stock of "just how bad am I buggered here?"

After a little bit you settle down, and start to do what you need to (water, shelter, temperature control, situational review)...and with each small success you get more hope and confidence...but the reality is that sometimes one mistake will kill you.

Then you decide, should I stay or should I go...tough call...expect that you will second and third guess yourself, even years after surviving.

----------


## mamab

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that Bear Grylls stuff is a little over the top. Some of the things he does, I'm thinking are staged. Besides, you know his crew isn't starving, they have provisions. He'll have SOMETHING to eat.

Oh, that time he bit the head off that little snake, I noticed he never swallowed. LOL

----------


## Bowcatz

Mamab, if you are in Mississippi, have you noticed how the violent crimes have risen exponentially since Katrina passed through back in August 2005? More armed robberies, more murders, and more bank robberies.

Some outlaws went and killed a young man a couple of weeks ago by suffocation and then burned him up somewhere in downtown Jackson, MS behind a school. Pupils and a teacher found the body still smoldering. That particular crime got me into Surplus City in Clinton, MS buying fresh .357 ammo for my mom's and mine's pistols. I mean, if the outlaws are that vicious now, what is up next? In the years I've lived in Mississippi, I've had several unsuccessful carjacking attempts (so far unsuccessful and keeping everything crossed for good luck), but now the outlaws go up and shoot the driver and take them forcibly from the car and then steal the car and drive off and leave the victim in the road bleeding. What the heck is going on in Mississippi since Katrina? 

Also, I guess you've heard that our mayor Frank Melton has a warrant for his arrest for violating a judge's order for being out after midnight at a local juke joint. He checked himself into a local hospital for chest pains to avoid arrest. He's looking at six months in the slammer.

If any of you are driving through Jackson, MS, keep your windows rolled up, your doors locked, and stay on the interstate if possible. One old man got shot last week by another guy at a local gas station simply because the old man refused to let the other guy pump his gas for him. I mean, that's just flat out crazy.

----------


## mamab

We're not in MS, but in AL. Thanks for the warning, though. I'm sure things are still crazy down on the gulf. It might take a while for things to get back to "normal," if they ever do.

----------


## the edge

i really enjoy man vs wild because like donny h said he puts himself in postions that make the show worth being called man vs wild and i also like how he showed you in the moab to wedge yourself up i think i saw every episode but pacific ocean one

----------


## BSM

The thing that bugs me is the fact that they never bring up stuff like, what to use in lieu of toilet paper.  Or, how to live for a few days without destroying your surroundings; for those who want to backpack in and don't want to kill everything around them.  In short, people in urban areas are watching these shows on how to _survive_, and using these same techniques when _camping_.  Few things raise my hackles like seeing a new trail _blazed_ through the woods.  There are other methods, and these people are either lazy or ignorant.  Possibly both.  Sorry, I know not everyone comes in to destroy, but it bothers me none-the-less.
Ciao,
BSM

----------


## wolf

Man vs Wild was a rip off survivorman just tried to make it cooler by Ooo "throwing a stick and snap a rabbits neck" and rat droppings like that.

----------


## the edge

which one do you like better? i like man vs wild because i didnt see much survivorman

----------


## FISHorDIE

Heres the deal. . .  Man vs Wild pretty much shows you what not to do. survivorman shows you what he would do. every situation is diffrent but the goal is to get found and not get hurt witch i think is displayed more in survivorman. the dude in man vs wild showed us that you should climb a 40 foot tree in the jungle to get a better look around, real smart, that show is a joke. atleast survivorman is believable and solo.if they got in a fight against one another survivor man would beat him senseless and live of his corpse for weeks. someone is going or allready did get hurt taking advice from man vs bloated entertainment industry.. . . . . .oh sorry . . . .wild

----------


## FISHorDIE

And to think he found that stranded fish in that puddle. . . . .yeah right. . . .they put it there so he could Woo the croud with him chompin into it raw. the fish was a trout. . . .it would die in hours without flowing water. i still watch the show though, because it gives me a reason to yell at my t.v.

----------


## WildGoth

well if you dislike the show then just change the channel you aren't being forced to watch it

----------


## lovegettinlost

I enjoy both Survivorman and Man vs Wild, but while watching Man vs Wild I fully understand it's a joke. He puts himself in positions where people do get lost but he shows the wrong way to get found, rather he DOES show you the right way to get yourself screwed over. Not everything he says is bad but most of it won't help you much. The Moab Utah episode was completely nuts, no true expert would swim that far underwater, and even worse, under a deadfall of branches which is not very sturdy, and which could fall and could drown you.

I do enjoy survivorman very much, he does put himself out in the wilderness alone, where he has to try to catch rodents, birds, and whatever he can to survive, and notice, the realistic part, he rarely catches anything, he tries and tries and gets lucky sometimes, I jsut saw one episode last night where he set several rock traps to catch rodents, adn the first 3-4 were empty, and fianlly the last one he tried was a scrawny little squirrel. Throughtout the show he gives valuable advice of what to do and what not to do. When I first started "getting lost" I would stay for a night or two in a small cave opening, never realizing by heating the rock above me too quickly it could break and kill me in the night, I learned that through Survivorman, I was impressed when he brought up the 5W's of sruvival also. The last two things I shall say, are that I love how he tests something new out msot episodes, a magnesium stike stick for fires, whihc I have one and it does work extremely well, I never go camping without it, and other such multitool and other helpful items, I also never go camping without my Wave Leatherman, its my prized posession for survival. Finally to BSM, I understand your concern for the wilderness, everyone should, that is why I also like SUrvivorman, Les does show you how to survive without destroying the landscape and the natural envorioment around. Destorying trees is not sometihng I think Man vs Chipmunk would think twice about. Les does mention when he has a bundle of bark that he stripped it from several trees as to not hurt them. So if you want to watch BOTH shows, just remember not to do what MAn vs Wild does, and think before you jump 20 ft into a Marine Roll, you jsut might break both your legs...

----------


## FISHorDIE

> well if you dislike the show then just change the channel you aren't being forced to watch it


i said i like to watch to yell at the t.v. which i think is entertaining in it self. but its just that entertaining ,not educational.

----------


## mistylady

Survivorman wins hands down. He makes mistakes and has to deal with it.  The other show is too fake.  I recently saw a Survivorman Urban survival show on hurricanes/floods and it was basic but excellent.  I would recommend it to anyone.  I think it was called Urban Survival.

----------


## Muffindude27

I saw Urban Survival too, i think. Wasn't that the one when he talked to the Katrina survivor? If so, that was very good. I also like Survivorman and Man vs. Wild. Know, I don't know much about nothing, but I do realize that most of the things Bear does on Man vs. Wild aren't neccesarily the right things to do but I do find it more entertaining than Survivorman.

----------


## mistylady

Yep thats the show!  I hope he does more of those type shows. :Smile:

----------


## wolf

so i guess we all conclude that bear just tries to make it entertaining while les tries to make it real

----------


## wolf

I like survivorman 'cause bear just tries to make it entertaining

----------


## FVR

I do enjoy both shows, buttttt............

Survivorman kinda keeps it real.  I like the way he uses stuff he would have and he fails.  Which realisticly happens in the wild.  His fire starting rifle idea, ahhh, I've never seen that work with smokeless powder.  Blackpowder is another story.

His airplane crash in the north, where he tried to do it with one arm and realized that ya gonna need two.  Keeps it real.

Now Bear, he is a showboater and I do enjoy every minute. 

Is he married?  cause if he is not, he'll never get a wife as I've seen him; piss on a t shirt and wrap it around his head, eat nasty bugs, eat trout while they are still alive, drink nasty water, eat day old lion kill and the topper, squeeze water from elephant crap and drink it.

I've seen Bear do things that I would not rec., but then again, it's not my show.  He ate a snake once, but I noticed that the snake was still.  Now, I've killed rattle snakes to eat on lrrps and can tell you, they keep moving for hours after they've had their head cut off, gutted, and skinned.

He also tends to fill his canteen from top water.  I've always been told to cover the canteen end, submerge the canteen of course in fast running water then fill from mid level.

Bad water = dissentary and that my friend is nasty.

Eating bugs, hey if that's your thang, go for it.  I've always read and was told that insects eaten raw can give you all kinds of problems.  Throw them in a pan and heat them for a little bit.  Same with eating raw fish, it may be nutrious, but you are injesting the water that it was swimming in.  I remember eating lettuce in Mexico, stayed away from the water, but duhhh, the lettuce was washed with the water.


All in all, I've learned some from both shows.

----------


## lovegettinlost

Not to mention that lettuce is mostly made up of water, so the fact that it is washed in it is minor compared to its make up, eitehr way its still not good for you in Mexico. Man v Wild is entertaing but usually not practical, he does do some nasty stuff but that nasty stuff isnt always stupid, but I'd recomend watching surviorman first.

----------


## FVR

Another thing that I just thought of was that the gent in man vs wild, in Africa when he came up on the lion killed zebra, said that the vultures like to eat fresh kill and that's how you can tell.

Well, I've always thought and also have watched on the disc. channel, that vultures don't nec. like fresh meat as it is too hard to pull apart.  They like it when it gets kind of soft and mushy.

Ahhh, don't matter.  I just remembered this as I saw a few what we call turkey vultures eating a dead deer on the way home.  Critters been dead for a few days.

----------


## the edge

ive been dying to see survivorman whats it like

----------


## Danoon

Survivorman !  The other guy will get you killed.

----------


## Woodland

I like both shows but like survivorman better, in my opinion it's more realistic in the stuff he might have to use to survive. and the hunger when he fails to find foodand lack of sleep. He seems more like a common everyday sort of person.

----------


## Danoon

I like the fact that Les Stroud is out there by himself and has to carry 60 lb of camera equipment with him everywhere. Les and his wife walked into the Canadian north country with nothing but a knife and lived for a year. I think thats pretty serious survival.

 Bear Grills has a camera crew with him and he was in the French Foreign Legion and is a Black Belt among other things which doesn't make him an average survivalist.  He does things that will get the average man killed.  I talked to a guy from the UK who said they watch it as a comedy.

----------


## marberry

whoa that is brutal , iv lived in northern canada my entire life so i know how harsh it is up there, do you know how far north because i seriously doubt they could have survived in the teritorries for that long , i know i couldnt unless i brought a car full of supplies. black belt doesnt mean much belive me i have a 2nd degree in taekwondo and a 1st in karate. french foreign legion is something though , i went to basic training just for the experience and its rly tough. i pride myself about being able to survive for 3 months in northern canada with only a backpack full of stuff, as long as it isnt the winter months.

----------


## aviator survivalist

*SURVIVORMAN!!!* he probably went to the most useful locations (the jungle, boreal forest, arctic, the places you would get lost in) and also, he didnt have *CAMERAMEN* to help him out if he got his leg crushed or something and he didnt have them as company (which almost all survivors dont have). But now, sadly, he does an urban survival show later at night  :Frown:  still useful, but still, he would have been better than *BEAR GRILLS* with his *CAMERAMEN*!!!!

----------


## Tony uk

I like Bear Grills hes good at what he does, also Ray Mears is good but he does mostly things about how tribes live and survive other that real survival 

So i like Man vs Wild best  :Smile:

----------


## LtAttiic

personally, i think they both do stupid stuff, more so Bear, so of the two, Les.
wait, Les does a urban survival show? whats it called?

----------


## Gumby

You can't seriously compare Bear to Les.

Les does things legit, you see EVERYTHING he has and what get gets to use.

Plus, don't kid yourself ....for the average person who does get lost, being alone is a HUGE deal!  The 8 primary factors effecting survival are: Pain, Cold, Hunger, Thirst, Boredom, Loneliness, Fatigue, and Fear. 

Being alone is hard, being in a group is a doddle.  Bear does more extreme and stupid things in his show simply because he is NOT alone and its truly not his *** on the line.  If he gets smoked while doing XYZ "stunt" (like down climbing a waterfall) and he bounces he's not going to die.

Cheers'
Gumby :Big Grin:

----------


## Gumby

Les blows away Bear ..... there is no contest!

----------


## spiritman

I definitely like survivorman more. I do like man vs wild because he does those crazy things like eat a raw fish straight from the river. My brother and i got caught up (lost, we were being stupid... not something I would recommend) a small canyon for 2 days, and we caught fish from the stream by hand. (which is illegal except in emergencies where i am at least) We didn't eat them raw though, I also always carry a magnesium match wherever I go. 
but no, not so much of a how to kinda thing. be prepared. GO SCOUTS! TROOP 795!!!

----------


## spiritman

I do think they both have good info, HOWEVER I would try not to pay attention to how bear travels... I couldn't believe he DOWN CLIMBED a waterfall, DOWN CLIMBED *THROUGH* a glacier, and I never saw him swim under the deadfall but seriously... and now a volcano!

----------


## the edge

wow alot of people like survivorman better lol

----------


## blewgrass

You guys are scaring me with the Natchez stories!  Out here on the West Coast it's hard to imagine that sort of crime.  I spent some tiime in Florida but that was pretty mild.  Drivng the rental car through parts of Miami reminded me of some of the 'hoods out here in Oakland and Richmond, CA.  Also in Fresno, Stockton and Sacramento there are some areas you wouldn't want to break down at night ... or day for that matter

Man v Wild is entertaining but the camera crew is very present in the show.  In the new everglades episode he talks to them quite a bit, so he doesn't even try to hide their presence.  In most cases you get the idea that he's not sweating anything but rather having fun and telling the camera how to get out of mud or swim through croc ponds....

This looks like a fun place to lurk and compare stories.

what network is survivorman on?

Steve

----------


## FVR

Eating raw fish, kind of funny.  So, your in the backwoods where you boil or treat your water prior to drinking.  But you're so hungry that you are going to eat raw fish, pulled out of water that ya don't know if it's safe to drink.

You figure that the average Joe burns what, a min. of 3000 cals a dayoing nothing.  A one pound fish is going to give you close to 200 cals, don't think I would spend too much time and energy fishing.  Fighting a losing battle.  Dont' think I could honestly eat 10 plus fish a day.  Well, unless it's salmon.

At least Survivorman keeps it real and does fail, because in the wilderness, we all fail at something.  Nothing ever goes perfectly.

----------


## Gumby

Boy what a burn .... I just watched the Man VS. Wild show tonight where skippy goes thru the Flordia EverGlades .... the oping shot has him standing on the edge of a chopper, and he quite manly raps off the skid down to the ground. (wow. of course having taught climbing for 2 years - zzzzzz) Anyway, on the way down the rope he has .....
- a knife
- a firelighter
- a plastic waterbottle

THEN later on he has to drink ... so he very cleverly fills up his shirt and drains the water in to a vessel.   Now the fun part .... he magicly explains HWO to purify the water to drink....Oh! - How you ask?  Why by boiling it kids, everyone knows that to purify water you boil it.

Wow what a great lesson ....my only question is WHERE DID THE METAL BILLY TIN COME FROM TO BOIL THE WATER !?!

He onnly had the three items he said he had going down the rope.  What a crock ....it's stuff like that, that proves his show and him are crap!

Sorry Bear ... go hire someone to run "continuity" checks on your show, fictional movies can afford it so can you .....  (grin)

Sorry but my two cents, let me get down off my soapbox by rappelling.
I saw it in a really cool show!

Cheers'
Gumby

----------


## Gumby

Boy what a burn .... I just watched the Man VS. Wild show tonight where skippy goes thru the Flordia EverGlades .... the oping shot has him standing on the edge of a chopper, and he quite manly raps off the skid down to the ground. (wow. of course having taught climbing for 2 years - zzzzzz) Anyway, on the way down the rope he has .....
- a knife
- a firelighter
- a plastic waterbottle

THEN later on he has to drink ... so he very cleverly fills up his shirt and drains the water in to a vessel.   Now the fun part .... he magicly explains HWO to purify the water to drink....Oh! - How you ask?  Why by boiling it kids, everyone knows that to purify water you boil it.

Wow what a great lesson ....my only question is WHERE DID THE METAL BILLY TIN COME FROM TO BOIL THE WATER !?!

He onnly had the three items he said he had going down the rope.  What a crock ....it's stuff like that, that proves his show and him are crap!

Sorry Bear ... go hire someone to run "continuity" checks on your show, fictional movies can afford it so can you .....  (grin)

Sorry but my two cents, let me get down off my soapbox by rappelling.
I saw it in a really cool show!

Cheers'
Gumby

----------


## paulbnork

> Boy what a burn .... I just watched the Man VS. Wild show tonight where skippy goes thru the Flordia EverGlades .... the oping shot has him standing on the edge of a chopper, and he quite manly raps off the skid down to the ground. (wow. of course having taught climbing for 2 years - zzzzzz) Anyway, on the way down the rope he has .....
> - a knife
> - a firelighter
> - a plastic waterbottle
> 
> THEN later on he has to drink ... so he very cleverly fills up his shirt and drains the water in to a vessel.   Now the fun part .... he magicly explains HWO to purify the water to drink....Oh! - How you ask?  Why by boiling it kids, everyone knows that to purify water you boil it.
> 
> Wow what a great lesson ....my only question is WHERE DID THE METAL BILLY TIN COME FROM TO BOIL THE WATER !?!
> 
> ...




OK, First off, Bear uses a canteen that has a removable metal bottom. This is the "vessel" that he drains the water into. Next, who cares about rappelling? Give me 5 minutes to teach you how, and I bet you could easily rappel as far as Bear did. Bear is my hero- I love his show. He shows you what to do if something really bad happens. (For instance, falling in a frozen lake, or a crevasse) AND, Les stroud only has to survive for 7 days, then he gets picked up by his buddies. Bear has to get out of wherever the heck they dropped him. For instance in the Alaska episode, he is surviving for at least 11 days. This, and the fact that he is just a total beast in general, puts my favorite on  Man Vs. Wild over Survivorman.

----------


## AeroMech

I prefer Survivorman because Les does not have the extensive military training that Bear does (British Special Forces). I personally do not have any military training and a lot of things that Bear accomplishes cannot be done by the average joe. I recall one episode in which Bear takes on the Moab Desert in Utah. In one segment he proceeds to climb out of a crevasse filled with a pool of water. I know for a fact that most people I know are not that limber or strong. Survivorman applies to even people who are "below" average in physical fitness. I am absolutely positive that I could not swim in 50 degree water under a huge pile-up of branches and then have enough stamina to climb up a 30 foot crevasse. Survivorman is more my style.

----------


## Dark786

> I like Bear Grills hes good at what he does, also Ray Mears is good but he does mostly things about how tribes live and survive other that real survival 
> 
> So i like Man vs Wild best


bear and his man vs wild show sucks

----------


## Dark786

listen to half the stuff bears does and u will be dead in a day,  o and back to the florida glades  i love how a four foot stick is going to save u from a 12 foot gator.  also his little demo on how to get out of a muddy sink hole  the sory about a jogger that got stuck in one okkkkk, why the hell is any one runny threw a mucky swap for enjoyment.   but i give u props on not taking a camping trailer with u.

----------


## rasputin

> Heres the deal. . .  Man vs Wild pretty much shows you what not to do. survivorman shows you what he would do. every situation is diffrent but the goal is to get found and not get hurt witch i think is displayed more in survivorman. the dude in man vs wild showed us that you should climb a 40 foot tree in the jungle to get a better look around, real smart, that show is a joke. atleast survivorman is believable and solo.if they got in a fight against one another survivor man would beat him senseless and live of his corpse for weeks. someone is going or allready did get hurt taking advice from man vs bloated entertainment industry.. . . . . .oh sorry . . . .wild


I disagree to the fullest degree. Suvivorman is a Canadian Musician, and "BEAR" they don't call him bear for nothing, is EX-SAS which is British Special forces and the only other special forces in the world more badass then the SAS would be the Navy Seals, and the Russian Spetznas. The guy climbed mt. everest when he was 23 years old, and is a bad ***. Don't let his show fool you he is no dummy and I find a lot of useful things on his show. 

My vote is for BEAR 

damn Canadians

----------


## FVR

I see you buy into the Navy Seal propoganda.

Good for you.

Bear is very entertaining, but he does stunts that would put normal Joe's in danger.

He takes chances that if he was still in the SAS, he would be thrashed.

----------


## wildernessgrrrl4

Les knows what he's doin. but so does Bear. 
But... Bear most likley has to take off two months from "work" to recover from all the crap he puts in his body. Les makes thoughs awsome little traps that work great, so he gets to eat at least a little meat. better than pine needles...
I'm basicly torn. Like 'em both. i watch both to "prepare" myself. haha.


Take a knife whenever you go on a nature walk! You might get lost!! :Wink:

----------


## rasputin

> I see you buy into the Navy Seal propoganda.
> 
> Good for you.
> 
> Bear is very entertaining, but he does stunts that would put normal Joe's in danger.
> 
> He takes chances that if he was still in the SAS, he would be thrashed.


My uncle was a Navy Seal, and trust me they are the real deal. I feel sorry for the average joe who can't climb a tree. 

No disrespect but I feel Bear deserves more Respect and I don't think people realize what the guy has done and can do.

----------


## FVR

Navy Seals are the real deal in the water.  No other service in the world can touch them.  But, they are portrayed as supermen in the movies, and they are not.

I have trained with the Seals and Green Berets in Panama and on land, in the jungle, the Green Berets are much superior.  

As far as Bear is concerned, he indicated in a show last weekend that his parachute fall happened when he was 21, he then climbed Everest when he was 23.

Looking up the British Army requ's and then the SAS requ's, it looks like they have 24 weeks of bootcamp which is phase I, then they go to school which is phase II.  They then vol. for SAS and have to go through a three phase selection process.

After they complete the selection, their training starts.

Not taking away from Bear's accomplishments, sounds pretty tough, but........looking at the requ. physical fitness, it's actually not as hard as some units in the US.

I wonder when Bear had his accident, was it in the training phase or later in his short lived career.

Seems to me, to get in the US Special Forces, it's a might bit harder.  Most Marines that I know that have made it that far, it had taken them their second enlistment and have completed numerous warfare schools.

His advertisement of the SAS and Everest is what it is, a sales pitch.

To put down a musician is kind of arrogant.  Military survival and what Bear does are completely different.  I have a few friends who were Special Forces Officers, oh they are BAD.  Yeh, they can pretty much kill you, close or far.  Yet only one of them I believe could survive in the Rocky's for a winter.  Why, not because of what he learned in the service, but rather what he learned out of the service.

I would also mention that I know of many non prior military pers. that can and would out perform Bear, not only physically but in the survivalist mode.  He has a crew that makes sure he knows what he can eat when he is in the field.  Many know more without a crew because they just do.

I say Semper Fi to your uncle.  As a Recon Marine, I've had the fortune to tangle with the Seals in a bar in Coronado.  It was hell, but it was also fun.

Tell your uncle to visit TWS Navy and sign up.  He may run into a few old friends.

----------


## KRASH!

FVR, I'm not trying to start a fight as to who is better than whom of the worlds special forces, but you may be surprised to know that every one of the big 3 U.S. Special Forces units will all gladly head to the Air Force' P.J.'s (Para Rescue Jumpers) as the end-all/be-all in terms of will power.  That's all special forces is and are (aside from specific battle, weapons, and tactics training) Its all about will power, pushing on after your body doesn't want to.  That's what a survivor is.  But, I just felt they deserve honorable mention, since the all the best-of-the-best readily admonish P.J.'s as "the best"

Now, that aside, I too prefer Stroud over Grylls.  But just because its marketed as "A survival show" you also have to take into account this is television...  
A true to life cop drama - wouldn't sell.
A mechanics true to life real car movie - wouldnt' sell
And an honest to goodness survival show - wouldn't sell 

As much as all of us would love it and be glued to the t.v., we are not the majority of the public.

So, you have to take into account that when Grylls goes out and does what he does, some of it is survival, some of it is television ratings.  Although it's less desired in terms of survival, eating a raw fish straight from a river, or going head first into a Zebra lion-style envokes the "EWWW" factor that gets ratings, because normal people are impressed and tell their friends "Did you see what HE did???"

I think, and appreciate Stroud as being more of a realist and makes a much more concerted effort to exlain the HOW and WHY.  

Regardless of his military past, or what you think of his show, yes mentioning that he climbed Everest is a marketing deal.  But don't let that fool you to thinking anyone can climb everest, or that its easy.  Everest kills about 1 out of 10, and none of them are uncredited climbers.  Everest is hard even with a $50,000.00 guide, with sherpa's and porters, and bottled oxygen.  Everest is not merely a climbing feat, but like all survivors takes incredible will power to accomplish.

That said, I still prefer Stroud.

----------


## FVR

Another honorable mention is the Coast Guard rescue units.  

Military.com has a good site that gives you the requ. for the 5 major forces.  Many kind of look over the AF, prob. because it's not popularized in the movies.


This is just good discussion, no fighting here.

I enjoy both shows.

----------


## natureboi69

I dont even no what everyone is on about but i want in!!! wats happnin???

----------


## KRASH!

I'll have to check it out.  Coast Guard was given some respect in the Kevin Costner film.  
If we're talking about survival and discovery channel, I guess we should throw in "Deadliest Catch".  I'd have to say they have my vote for being tough.

----------


## sam30248

Les takes his time so he dont have to take chanes like Bear does. And i enjoy both shows. Bear takes to many chances

----------


## mbarnatl

Survivorman is more practical and explains what and why he does things... Man vs Wild you need to decide if it is the correct way or the wrong way. He does put himself in some bad situations.


Les Stroud will be making several shows similar to "Urban Survival". Urban Survival is the first in the series of six or seven shows of that type. Plus he already started filming his second season. Also the "Off The Grid with Les Stroud" will be airing in the United States soon. 

If you want to follow what Les Stroud "Survivorman" is doing... check out his blog.

----------


## FVR

Read the book the Perfect Storm, the actual account.  They go into the Coast Guards training for their rescue units.  Their water training and physical demands are on the same level as the seals.

I came away with alot of respect for the Coast Guard.  But then, I have all the respect for all military personnel.

----------


## KRASH!

I just watched Perfect Storm as a matter of fact.  I noticed that the rescue team attempting to save the Andrea Gale crew were Air Force P.J.'s  :Smile:  but that was the movie.

From the movie Navy Seals:
*just prior to deployment out of an aircraft*
Hawkins: "For God's sake, be careful out there!" 
Ramos: "If I were going to be careful, I'd have joined the Coast Guard." 

I don't suppose Stroud is ever going to release an un-edited version for DVD in terms of not 'sparing us' when it comes to field dressing the animals, and F-bomb bleeps, etc. ?

----------


## troutndeer

Those two shows are my favorites, But les wins hands down on wich is beter.
Dont get me wrong, Bear has his moments but I do think some of his "ordeals" are staged, Diving into the serria river and going for miles! I have lived along those rivers my whole life and have fell in more than once. The water is too cold when the rivers are at those flows, 10 min. MAYBE, houres NO!! Les "keeps it real" and shows useful info.

just my 2 Cents

----------


## cowboytexan

I don't like Man vs. Wild, because like you said, it's mostly staged, and because since he's only out there for two days and he, isn't really in a real survival situation, he needlessly kills animals all for the the ratings. Because as we all know Ratings=Money. That is a bad reason to kill animals, I watched him kill three creatures in a single episode.

----------


## FVR

Krash,

Missed that part in the movie.

In real life it was the Coast Guard Rescue Swimmers, pretty tough unit.  Here is a link if you want to know a bit more.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/coast...cueswimmer.htm

----------


## marberry

i just watched the arctic episode of survivorman and found it to be extremely true , i lived in Cambridge bay , Nunavut for a few months last year and once was stuck out by the ice drifts for two days. hes very very lucky he didnt find a polar bear because there are literally thousands out there and there bigger then grizzlies. he showed how hard it was to catch any food atall out there much less spear seals with no experience. ice fishing would have been his best bet for catching any food atall but he didnt have the tools for it. the one thing that made me choke was when he went to sleep under an ice drift close to a freefall icecave. that is the single most stupid thing i have ever seen him do, hes very lucky he woke up. his attempt at building an igloo showed just how hard it is without a snow saw/knife. he should have dug himself a snow  cave it would have been far easier and warmer. the natives up there are some of the friendliest people iv ever met and hes lucky the trapper with the dog sled found him or he could have been a week in walking back. bringing some seal blubber was a great idea that stuff gives you alot of energy. man vs wild gives you alot of laughs if it isnt so ridiculous that it disgusts you.

----------


## SOE digital

I love both shows. Man vs Wild is just awsome for it's shock value and it's entertaining as hell. Obviously it's staged. In fact I've spoken to the producers of Man vs Wild when they called up asking us for permission to use a freshly road killed Kangaroo (or was it a snake? Can't remember) in the show to make it look like Bear had actually killed it himself.
Obviously staged, but awfuly entertaining.

Survivorman is more for the people like us with a genuine interest in the topic. The only thing that bugs me is that the guy is a bit soft when it comes to killing animals for food. 
"Believe it or not, we do want to see you gut and prepare your turtle and snake!!!" 

 :Wink:

----------


## FVR

Ahh, it's a tv show.  What do you expect, it's entertainment.

Beats watching sitcoms.

----------


## Chris

The most hilarious thing about Man vs. Wild is the credits.... there is a survival expert listed and it isn't Bear Grylls.

----------


## blewgrass

His comic timing (Bear Grylls) is pretty good.  The Copper Canyon bit when he eats the scorpion and describes the taste like cheese is the key to his ratings.  I got a couple of belly laughs from that one...  It's all about the food..   Also the routines where he makes jumps into cold water and other daredevil stuff adds to the hype.  The soundtrack is like a tamed down version of Sabotage by the Beastie Boys... too funny.

My dish network package is too cheap to give me the science channel but his (survivorman) blogs are great.  

Bear is pretty good though.

It's obvious that he doesn't come up with all the good info.. especially the stories about lost individuals.  The sequences where he stands on the helicopter rails are very cool though..

----------


## ATough

survivorman all the way! thats what I took my name from.
man vs wild is a good show and you can learn tons of stuff from it I just like survivorman more.

----------


## paul vs wild

Anyone who chose survivorman is a complete idiot! man vs. wild trumps all by far. First, survivorman takes a year to complete his shelters and doesn't try to find his way back (basically he can set snares everywhere and catch food and just wait to be rescued by his producer) plus all he does is complain. Bear Grylls, however, has quick shelters that anyone can make and takes his suffering like a man (vs. wild). Also, to anyone who said Bear takes too many risks (one person couldn't type too with two o's which shows how dumb and incompitant he is) wilderness survival is about taking risks to save your you-know-what. Also Bears episodes are full of info. I'm not saying that survivorman is not a good show, i love it, but who ever gets stuck in the Georgian swampland! Another thing, Bear goes into his situations with AT MOST a knife, flint, and water bottle, while Les Stroud went into one episode with a broken-down snowmobile, a hunk of uncooked seal liver, oil-rich blubber for heat, a seal hook, three matches, a knife, a multi-tool, a rifle, and a harmonica , what is this, it's wilderness survival, who goes into the wilderness with all that stuff? Bottom Line: Man vs Wild by a land slide even ask the discovery channel, they seem to prefer Man vs Wild more, as evident by their giving Bear a second season and much more viewing time.

----------


## nell67

There is no reason to put anyone down for their opnion of which show is better,that said yes survivorman can sit and wait for his producer to come by and pick him up,but he still has to survive wherever he is until said producer reaches him,the other guy has more than just his knife LOL he has his camera crew with him with who knows what  with them,and I am sure that if he fails on one of his expeditions,that show is not going to air anyway,because afterall how long is their ratings going to stay up there if they show him failing????

We all get along on this forum and there is no call for someone to come in on their first day and start junk.

----------


## Sarge47

As a survivor teacher just let me say that both shows are definately entertaining and have some important stuff on them.  However I just watched Bear's new M. vs. W. episode set in Kimberly Austraila where he drinks his own urine.  Most experts warn against that!  I read one post where someone asked why would Les Stroud have whale blubber and a rifle.  The rifle was for insurance reasons I'm sure.  Bottom line here folks, never stray far from home without some form of survival kit on your person.  I have built about seven of them, from a small, pocket-sized one all the way up to a large one complete with an AR-7 .22cal. survival rifle.  I would like to see both shows stressing the importance of carrying survival items on your person at all times.

----------


## FVR

Drinking pee, yeh really bright.

Pee contains alot of salt which I would think would only make you dehydrate faster.

I would think that if you are already dehydrated, the drinking of pee would really make you throw up, adding to your dehydration.  Not to mention that you are consuming waste, possibly getting diahrrea thus also adding to dehydration.

----------


## Sarge47

> Anyone who chose survivorman is a complete idiot! man vs. wild trumps all by far. First, survivorman takes a year to complete his shelters and doesn't try to find his way back (basically he can set snares everywhere and catch food and just wait to be rescued by his producer) plus all he does is complain. Bear Grylls, however, has quick shelters that anyone can make and takes his suffering like a man (vs. wild). Also, to anyone who said Bear takes too many risks (one person couldn't type too with two o's which shows how dumb and incompitant he is) wilderness survival is about taking risks to save your you-know-what. Also Bears episodes are full of info. I'm not saying that survivorman is not a good show, i love it, but who ever gets stuck in the Georgian swampland! Another thing, Bear goes into his situations with AT MOST a knife, flint, and water bottle, while Les Stroud went into one episode with a broken-down snowmobile, a hunk of uncooked seal liver, oil-rich blubber for heat, a seal hook, three matches, a knife, a multi-tool, a rifle, and a harmonica , what is this, it's wilderness survival, who goes into the wilderness with all that stuff? Bottom Line: Man vs Wild by a land slide even ask the discovery channel, they seem to prefer Man vs Wild more, as evident by their giving Bear a second season and much more viewing time.


Okay, let's not point fingers at mis-spelled words, look how you mis-spelled "incompetent".  As to your question about "who goes into the wilderness with all that stuff?" the answer is:  "any experienced outdoors-man".  Even an experienced back-packer carries a "10 essentials kit". (For more info on that go to "www.rei.com")  As far as Bear getting a 2nd season & Les not, a visit to Les Stroud's web-site gives you the explanation for that, Les is busy on a new project.  And finally, Les does find his way out of the situations he's in & builds his shelters rather quickly as he's only got a self-imposed time-limit of 7 days.  Just remember the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared".

----------


## Sarge47

Awhile back, Discovery Channel did a 6-episode series of 6 of their previous episodes sub-titled "S.O.S.:  The Science of Survival."  They would replay parts of the episode, cutting in their survival experts who would then demonstrate things the people could have done to better their situation.  Les Stroud was on one of these & it was very well done.  Another favorite of mine was the story of the four guys who went into the Amazon, only two came back.  The survival expert on this one was a former special Forces guy name of John Hawke I believe.  Finally, Backpacker magazine had a small bit of input from Les Stroud in their "Survival" issue. (October 2006).  Just some data for all you Les fans.

----------


## gringo

Our whole family likes both programs, as well as Ray Mears but our preference is Survivorman.  He is more of an "everyman" than Bear Grylls and you get more of a feel of the emotions he is going through.

I really like having the option to watch both.

----------


## paul vs wild

> Okay, let's not point fingers at mis-spelled words, look how you mis-spelled "incompetent".  As to your question about "who goes into the wilderness with all that stuff?" the answer is:  "any experienced outdoors-man".  Even an experienced back-packer carries a "10 essentials kit". (For more info on that go to "www.rei.com")  As far as Bear getting a 2nd season & Les not, a visit to Les Stroud's web-site gives you the explanation for that, Les is busy on a new project.  And finally, Les does find his way out of the situations he's in & builds his shelters rather quickly as he's only got a self-imposed time-limit of 7 days.  Just remember the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared".


First off, let me say that Sarge47 is so full of crap he doesn't know if he is coming or going. If you go around and ask 100 3rd graders they all know when to use two, to, and too. Conversely, if you ask 100 RANDOM adults (random pertaining to not all of them being Harvard grads) to spell incompEtant only about 60-70% would spell it correctly. Now, to your next point not every survivor that has ever walked this planet has had the luxury of a survival kit; quite the opposite. Don't let sarge fool you if they told Les to do a second season and payed him a pretty penny to do it, he would have dropped this project. Also, not every single person who goes into the wilderness is an experienced outdoors-man or backpacker so don't use that as an alibi for Les to carry all of the Sh^t that he does. And for all those people who say man vs wild is staged they have the 24 hour film role for sale if you know where to go so don't fool yourself, there is always a camera on Bear; granted, there are parts where he'll have a sip of tea that belongs to his cameraman. And one last thing, Bear can spend 7 days in the wilderness, he's so efficient that he can find a way out in 2.

----------


## paul vs wild

To Nell67,

             If Les gives up in the wild he has a cell and a gps on hand i *guarantee* it. And if Les gives up, that show won't air either.

----------


## FVR

It's entertainment.  So is this.

I just wonder if Bear, left alone, no camera crew, would he take the same chances that he currently does.

I like them both.  I do think that Bear is a bit more of a show-boater.  But then, that's tv ratings.

----------


## Sarge47

> First off, let me say that Sarge47 is so full of crap he doesn't know if he is coming or going. If you go around and ask 100 3rd graders they all know when to use two, to, and too. Conversely, if you ask 100 RANDOM adults (random pertaining to not all of them being Harvard grads) to spell incompEtant only about 60-70% would spell it correctly. Now, to your next point not every survivor that has ever walked this planet has had the luxury of a survival kit; quite the opposite. Don't let sarge fool you if they told Les to do a second season and payed him a pretty penny to do it, he would have dropped this project. Also, not every single person who goes into the wilderness is an experienced outdoors-man or backpacker so don't use that as an alibi for Les to carry all of the Sh^t that he does. And for all those people who say man vs wild is staged they have the 24 hour film role for sale if you know where to go so don't fool yourself, there is always a camera on Bear; granted, there are parts where he'll have a sip of tea that belongs to his cameraman. And one last thing, Bear can spend 7 days in the wilderness, he's so efficient that he can find a way out in 2.


Right!  You must have had a lousy childhood to use the language the way you do!  Don't get so caught up in TV shows dawg, I guarantee you'll only be disapointed.  In any group survival situation everyone has to remain positive.  Since all you bring to the table is name-calling, negative suppositions, and bad-mouthing, you would be the 1st to be let go of.  As a matter of fact, right after posting this I'm going to hit the "ignore" button.  Have a nice life.

----------


## paul vs wild

I sincerely apologize to sarge47 for offending you. and to anyone else. but, don't get it twisted i still prefer man vs wild and no one will change my opinion

----------


## Sarge47

> I sincerely apologize to sarge47 for offending you. and to anyone else. but, don't get it twisted i still prefer man vs wild and no one will change my opinion


Apology accepted!  That shows character!  And, by the way, I certainly don't want to try & change anyone's opinion on which shows they like.  I like them both.  However, as I said earlier, my favorite Les Stroud show wasn't a "Survivorman" episode, it was an episode of "I shouldn't be alive:  The Science of Survival."  Les showed what could have been done in an actual survival situation.  The people were real, as was their predicament.  Let's face facts, no one deliberately puts themselves in harm's way if they can help it, unless, of course there's big money to be made.

----------


## paul vs wild

I agree with sarge, both are excellent shows and you can learn *alot* from both

----------


## paul vs wild

both are extremely usefull and good shows

----------


## Sarge47

> The most hilarious thing about Man vs. Wild is the credits.... there is a survival expert listed and it isn't Bear Grylls.


The same is true with Les Stroud on Survivorman!  However these are the only two shows that show wilderness survival "how-to"; I'd like to see others as well.

----------


## FVR

I have a couple questions;

Does a Baer crap in the woods?

How does he spend so much time being wet and not get diaper rash?

If he is getting diaper rash, what is he putting on it?

Prior to filming a show, is he taking any kind of meds to prevent him from getting sick?

Has he been anywhere that he could have gotten malaria?  if so, was he taking his pills?

How does he prevent foot rot when in constant wet environments?

What kind of shots does he get prior to going on an adventure?

I've noticed that sometimes when he fills his canteen, he does not fill it all the way up, why?

Also noticed that he will wrap his canteen and canteen cup in duct tape, good trick.

He has drank pee and water from some kind crap, did he get sick after the show was over?

Just questions from someone who can't sleep.

----------


## Sarge47

> I have a couple questions;
> 
> Does a Baer crap in the woods?
> 
> How does he spend so much time being wet and not get diaper rash?
> 
> If he is getting diaper rash, what is he putting on it?
> 
> Prior to filming a show, is he taking any kind of meds to prevent him from getting sick?
> ...


Interestingly enough if he does crap in the woods he might eat it.  This guy has eaten about any kind of insect there is and drank urine from elephant dung.  He's eaten scorpions, spiders, snakes (live ones), millipedes, ants, maggots, grubs, whatever.  Wouldn't a normal hiker carry some sort of vitemin/food supplement with them?  Inquiring minds want to know!

----------


## gringo

He's obviously going after the shock factor.  The elephant dung thing was beyond belief.  My wife is still having nightmares from that.

----------


## owl_girl

Ya hes pretty dramatic.

----------


## Tony uk

I want to join him sometime, i like people who are that kind of dramatic

----------


## FVR

So yah saying like .......................

Drama queens?

----------


## SOE digital

Why ask all those questions? The show is completely staged.

----------


## Sarge47

> I want to join him sometime, i like people who are that kind of dramatic


Maybe you guys could bond by sharing a large elephant turd together.  (Sorry, just couldn't resist.)  ;>)

----------


## Tony uk

LOL, i like it with extra seasoning

----------


## ATough

> Why ask all those questions? The show is completely staged.


Why do you think that?



I personally love the show watch it every time its on. :Cool:

----------


## nell67

LOL I watch it for the gag factor,I gag everytime he eats or drinks.LOL

----------


## SOE digital

_ Why do you think that?_ 

I don't think that, I know that.
Like I've said in a previous thread; I got a call from the producers of the show asking permission to use a dead kangaroo in the show to make it look like he had killed it himself. It's all staged.
Isn't it obvious, by the way its filmed?
One second there's a cameraman on his raft floating down the river. Next minute there isn't. It's all set up mate. No doubt about it.

Still a fun show though.

----------


## FVR

I picked that up on the raft scenes also.

When they flashed back and forth, he was not in the same place.  

One min. he was filming from the raft going down the river, the next they were filming him and it was compl. diff water, then they went back to the raft cam.

One min. he is educating you on why you need to fully cook snakes because of worms in the meat, then the next scene he is eating on raw.  LOL.

Good entertainment.

----------


## ATough

its staged? now im so upset.

----------


## SOE digital

I don't even think he actually ate that snake. You know, the one that he bit the head off. You never see him swollow it.

----------


## FVR

Tell ya a little bit about snakes, I've eaten my fare share of them.

You cut their heads off, and they wriggle back and forth, for hours.

We would catch a rattler, cut it's head off and hang it from a tree branch, could not skin it until it stopped moving.

To eat a snake right after you bite it's head off, yeh okay, you would need t chew it up real good.  Nasty.  Snakes, all snakes stink really bad when you gut and skin them.  To be chewing on a raw snake, guts and skin, ewwwww.

----------


## blewgrass

NO WAY... He told OPRAH it's all real!!  He kept filling the water bottle with pee!

----------


## Sarge47

Bottom line here folks; proper preparation PRIOR to going into the wilds keeps you from having to eat & drink all that nasty stuff.  I wish we'd see more shows on people being instructed in survival training, building their own survival kits, field testing them, and then they get put into a "situation".  I bet the ratings would go through the roof.

----------


## SOE digital

_ NO WAY... He told OPRAH it's all real!! He kept filling the water bottle with pee!_ 

Don't care what he tells anyone. I'm telling you, from first hand experience, that this show is staged.
Sure, the guy is definately a tough nut and does some crazy stunts...but the whole survival situation is a mock up.

Heck, he even says it's too dangerous to land in the desert by chopper because of the thermal upwinds; so he has to repel What a load of bollocks. Anyone with any experience in the army, aviation (I've been involved in both) etc will know that it isn't true. It's simply for the added shock value. 

Long story short, I work in the Australian film industry as well as doing work with Australian wildlife and conservation. I've spoken to the people who make this TV show. I know, for a fact, that the show is entirely staged. Yes, he may get sick every now and then and yes I'm sure he's a bit hungry...but at the end of the day he has a support crew that looks after him and are there to give him food and water if and when he wants it.

Sorry to go on a bit of a rant, but it just amazes me that people deny the obvious fact that they show is staged. Sure as hell dosn't mean you can't enjoy it.

----------


## gringo

> Bottom line here folks; proper preparation PRIOR to going into the wilds keeps you from having to eat & drink all that nasty stuff.  I wish we'd see more shows on people being instructed in survival training, building their own survival kits, field testing them, and then they get put into a "situation".  I bet the ratings would go through the roof.


I couldn't agree more Sarge.  That's one of the reasons I like Ray Mears. He even teaches what knots to use to set up camp.  Not as entertaining but much more useful information.

SOE Digital is right.  It is completely staged.  Like when he was looking for the aloe vera plant.  He just happened upon one when he "needed" it.  Pretty doubtful in my opinion.

----------


## Chris

You can tell it's staged just by watching closely.  The environment changes to such a degree in such patterns that you know he is being ferried around to predetermined locations.  For instance in the Kimberly Australia one he starts in the badlands, goes to the flatlands by the coast, then suddenly is back in the badlands.  

Also, he is way too lucky in what he finds. A non-native grapefruit tree in the everglades? Fruit trees in almost every episode, and oh look... here is a fresh water spring, how lucky.

In the credit's he isn't even the show's "survival expert."

Some of the information is good, some isn't, but don't believe it is real. 

If you want to see a real show like that get Survivorman DVDs. You'll notice in reality its hard to find food, hard to find water, and most of survival is walking and waiting.

----------


## Sarge47

> I couldn't agree more Sarge.  That's one of the reasons I like Ray Mears. He even teaches what knots to use to set up camp.  Not as entertaining but much more useful information.
> 
> SOE Digital is right.  It is completely staged.  Like when he was looking for the aloe vera plant.  He just happened upon one when he "needed" it.  Pretty doubtful in my opinion.


Okay, I plead ignorance, who is Ray Mears?

----------


## Tony uk

Hes a person who teaches survival somewhere i think, hes done a few TV shows on survival and wilderness

----------


## Sarge47

> Hes a person who teaches survival somewhere i think, hes done a few TV shows on survival and wilderness


Does anyone know if he's on T.V. now?  If so, what network?

----------


## Tony uk

Hes on UKTV Documentary and on the Discovery channels

----------


## Atlanta Randy

I have had a little expereince in helping produce some of the North American shows for the discovery channel.

Bear really does go through the scenerios by himself. The camera crew has never helped him in any way (Other than unwittingly providing light during a night time run from a bear.)

The 5 day trip has obviously got to be edited down to 1 hour. So what you don't see is his hours if not days of walking to find the plants, springs, streams, trees and animals he encounters along the way.

You may even notice that some of the scenes are edited out of sequence. If Bear finds a fruit tree, a snake and a spring all in one day, the editors will edit these scenes in over the course of the hour long show. 

In order to be entertaining, the editing may be out of wack but the trek is all too real for Bear.

The show is in no way "fake" or "staged"....just edited for television. And to answer the questions about what he eats and why the premise is not of an intentional camper but a lost tourist with almost no equipment having to use the most extreme measures, evidenced in the fact that even though he knows he'll need shelter he leaves his parachute behind.

Randy

----------


## Tony uk

Cool, thanks for the info  :Smile: 

What shows have you done ?

Welcome Here  :Big Grin:

----------


## gringo

Ray Mears is really the forerunner of Survivorman and Man vs Wild.  He's done several shows.  I've seen World of Survival, Extreme Survival, Country Tracks, Bushcraft and Wild Food and all of them are good.

He is heavily involved in studying primitive cultures and their technologies.  Very interesting stuff.

What I like about him the most is that he takes the time to teach basic wilderness skills along the way. 

I've been fortunate enough that a lot of his programs have been aired here in Brazil.

I doubt any of these shows have been shown in the US.  You can purchase DVDs on his website (www.raymears.com) but they are probably PAL and won't play on a US dvd player.  You could watch them on your laptop with the right codecs.  

If you are not against downloading, a lot of his shows are available on bit torrent.

----------


## Tony uk

Im glad we live in Europe sometimes  :Smile: 

gringo, do you know when the new series of Ray Mears bushcraft is comming out ?

----------


## gringo

I heard he was filming something but I haven't gotten any info on it. 

His website says he is touring throughout the UK teaching about bushcraft.  I'd love to be at one of those.

----------


## Tony uk

Really, i would like to meet him, i'll try to find out where hes going and hopefully get down there myself

----------


## gringo

I guess I hadn't really thought about the editing and not everything being in order.  I've never doubted that he isn't going through everything that's shown.  I just appears at times that some of the things he does have been set up in advance.

----------


## Tony uk

This is where he is going to be 


*September 29th* 7:30pm *TELFORD, Oakengates* 01952 382382 www.theplacetelford.com 
*September 30th* 7:30pm *NEWCASTLE, The Journal Tyne Theatre* 0870 145 1200 www.thejournaltynetheatre.co.uk 
*October 2nd* 7:30pm *NORTHAMPTON, Royal & Derngate* 01604 624811 www.royalandderngate.co.uk 
*October 5th* 7:30pm *STAFFORD, Gatehouse Theatre* 01785 254653 
*October 6th* 7:30pm *KING'S LYNN, Corn Exchange* 01553 764864 www.kingslynncornexchange.co.uk 
*October 7th* 7:30pm *DUNSTABLE, Grove Theatre* 01582 602080 www.grovetheatre.co.uk 
*October 8th* 7:30pm *EASTBOURNE, Congress Theatre* 01323 412000 www.eastbournetheatres.co.uk 
*October 9th* 7:30pm *ABERYSTWYTH, Canolfan y Celfyddydau Aberystwyth Arts Centre* 01970 623232 www.aber.ac.uk/artscentre 
*October 10th* 7:30pm *LEAMINGTON SPA, Royal Spa Centre* 01926 334418 www.royal-spa-centre.co.uk 
*October 11th* 7:30pm *MALVERN, Malvern Theatres* 01684 892277 www.malvern-theatres.co.uk 
*October 13th* 8:00pm *BUXTON, Opera House* 0845 127 2190 www.buxtonoperahouse.org.uk 
*October 15th* 7:30pm *LLANDUDNO, Venue Cymru* 01492 872000 www.venuecymru.co.uk 
*October 16th* 7:30pm *DERBY, Assembly Rooms* 01332 255800 www.assemblyrooms-derby.co.uk 
*October 17th* 7:30pm *CHELTENHAM, Town Hall* 01242 227979 www.cheltenhamtownhall.org.uk 
*October 19th* 7:30pm *COLCHESTER, Charter Hall* 01206 282020 www.charter-hall.co.uk 
*October 20th* 7:45pm *ALDERSHOT, Princes Hall* 01252 329155 www.princeshall.com 
*October 21st* 7:30pm *BIRMINGHAM, Town Hall* 0121 780 3333 
*October 22nd* 8:00pm *HIGH WYCOMBE, Wycombe Swan* 01494 512000 www.wycombeswan.co.uk 
*October 25th* 7:30pm *WORTHING, Pavilion* 01903 206206 www.worthingtheatres.gov.uk 
*October 26th* 7:30pm *POOLE, Lighthouse* 08700 668701 www.lighthousepoole.co.uk 
*October 29th* 7:30pm *LEEDS, Grand Theatre* 0870 122 2815 www.leedsgrandtheatre.com

----------


## Atlanta Randy

I've worked with both BOSS out of Colorado and Mountain Sheperd school in VA.
I worked on both the everglades episode and the Copper Canyon show in Mexico.
I have been a survival and backpacking instructor for the Boy Scouts since 1983.
I do a lot of ultralight backpacking now with a few "survival treks" each year. My wife thinks I'm nuts and NEVER goes with me. 
I've been working on and presenting an ultralight backpacking stove called the "Atlanta stove" and working on a program and small survival packs for scouting.
basically it's 3 small energy candies a space blanket, whistle and 2 small chem lights in a small waterproof package that clips to a belt or fanny pack. and a short DVD teaching younger scouts to stay put and what to do if seperated from their group or leaders.
Most of the young hikers that get lost are found miles away from thier original location wandering all over looking for help.

As far as man vs. wild. What I have seen is hours of unused video footage of Bear walking and talking to the camera men about what he's looking for. They only use the footage of him once he's found it. That's why you'll see the shot suddenly jump into action. There might be 3 hours of bear walking, looking in rocks for a snake then they use only the last few minutes of him finding and killing one.

Usually the camera guys camp a few hundred yards from him so that he can catch the "night life" around him undisturbed with his hand cam.

Some people point to the "survival consultants" in the credits as proof that Bear's a fake but that doesn't stand to reason.
Although Bear is trained in survival by the SAS and has made a living as an adventurer, I can't imagine him knowing ahead of time that there are no poisonous frogs in the everglades.
The producers and bear consult with experts in that area for information. I'm sure that after a few years on this show Bear will have information and advice for survival in every country on the planet but I can't see any sane person just jumping into that kind of environment without doing a bit of research first.

----------


## Atlanta Randy

> _ Why do you think that?_ 
> 
> I don't think that, I know that.
> Like I've said in a previous thread; I got a call from the producers of the show asking permission to use a dead kangaroo in the show to make it look like he had killed it himself. It's all staged.
> Isn't it obvious, by the way its filmed?
> One second there's a cameraman on his raft floating down the river. Next minute there isn't. It's all set up mate. No doubt about it.
> 
> Still a fun show though.


They edit scenes like that. They take footage with a camera on the raft then footage from the banks then footage from Bear's hand cam and edit it to be entertaining. Not staged, just edited. He made the whole trip, just not always with a cameraman on board.

The producers are a bit put off about Bear killing and eating "cute" mammals, which is why he usually only eats fish and reptiles on the show. Imagine the PETA uproar if he ate a Joey on TV.

I've seen the Aussie episode. He never ate a kangaroo.

----------


## owl_girl

Ray Mears is better than survivorman and man vs. wild. Hes more knowledgeable, and the shows have been shown in the US. I havent seen them lately though so I dont know if they are on that often anymore.

----------


## SOE digital

_ I've seen the Aussie episode. He never ate a kangaroo._ 

That's because he never got permission from us.

_ They edit scenes like that. They take footage with a camera on the raft then footage from the banks then footage from Bear's hand cam and edit it to be entertaining. Not staged,_ 

Are you blind, or just stupid?
Howcome ine minute there is a camera man on the raft, and then POOF! He's gone. That's the epitimy of something being staged.
They do multiple takes and resets.

_ Imagine the PETA uproar if he ate a Joey on TV._ 

There wouldn't be an uproar. WE kill off hundreds and thousands of kangaroos and eat them a year. Kangaroos are a pest. The thing is, you need a license to kill them (unless they're on your property or you're an Aboriginal). They asked for permission to use a dead kangaroo in their show (it was a road kill) to make it look like he killed it himself. THAT IS A FACT. THAT IS THE MOST PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS SHOW BEING STAGED. We declined giving them permission, hence that he never ate a Roo in that episode.

Is it really that hard to understand. The show is staged, it's just been proven. I know, for a SOLID fact that it's set up. Think about it. We recieved a phone call from the PRODUCERS OF MAN vs WILD asking us to assist them in STAGING A SCENE FOR THE SHOW! It's so freaking blatant that you'd have to be a numpty with a hard on for Bear to not realise it.

----------


## FVR

So Baer spends another week in the jungle, no jungle foot rot, no diaper rash, no rub rash's, no breaking out and no crapping in the woods.

We spend a week in the jungle, we get foot rot, diaper rash, and the heat and humidity makes us all break out.

Second week out, I tell my squad to go to the px and pick up a jar of noxema.  They ***** and complain, but I won't let them go without it.  They are also requ. to bring 5 extra pairs of socks wrapped in zip locks.

No underwear, aka boxers or briefs, green t's can be worn once we are off base.    No shaving in the field and if you don't have jungle boots, you're off the squad.

Noxema is a wonderful substance.  So after patrolling all day, set up camp.  Drop your trousers, grab a handful of noxema, stick something between your teeth and apply the cream.

The first few minutes, shear pain, after that just as soft and supple as a babies bottom.  But those first few minutes, yeeeowwww.

Now air out and dry your feer, put on a pair of dry socks, you're in Jungle Heaven.

----------


## FVR

Teach them to put the dvd back into the pouch after they watch it as dvd's are excellant signal mirrors.

----------


## SOE digital

_ The camera crew has never helped him in any way (Other than unwittingly providing light during a night time run from a bear._ 

So how about the dead kangaroo that they wanted to give to him to make it look like he killed it?
Explain that mate.

----------


## gringo

Cortaid ointment works great without the pain.  I've found if I put a little on before I set out, I don't get any rash.  Works for me everytime.

----------


## Tony uk

Ive never heard of noxema, where do you get it from ?

----------


## gringo

Noxzema is skin care product sold in the US (we have it in Brazil too) that is mainly used by women to remove makeup.  You can buy it at most drug stores.

Though some have used it for crotch rot, that is not it's intended purpose.  Imagine setting fire to your privates.  Best description I can think of.

----------


## FVR

But after a few minutes, it's all numb.  LOL.  Pain for a few min. equals a whole day of relief.

Not for the pain weary.

----------


## jimjimjimmyjim

about your original question about duct taping the wter bottle, its because he has his bear cam with him. thats how he gets all thos shots of him like 30 feet up in a tree or whatever. and he does explain the not getting foot rot thing in a couple of his episodes. when he is in those kind of environments he stopp every like 10 hours to light a fire and dry off his feet. watch the everglades episode.

----------


## jimjimjimmyjim

i meant to say he has the bear cam taped to his water bottle so its always with him. 
but i have another question. in alot of episodes he is boiling his water in a seperate little pot thats not his water bottle. is it just like the holder for the water bottle or what? hhmmm......

----------


## Sarge47

> i meant to say he has the bear cam taped to his water bottle so its always with him. 
> but i have another question. in alot of episodes he is boiling his water in a seperate little pot thats not his water bottle. is it just like the holder for the water bottle or what? hhmmm......


Bear uses a NATO canteen with canteen cup, similar to the canteen and canteen cup used by the U.S. Armed Forces.  He's used black duct tape to hold them together in lieu of a canteen cover.  According to the information he gives at www.discovery.com/manvswild (click on "meet bear"); he also admits to using a length of para-cord ingeniously knotted as a carrying strap...something he doesn't mention in the opening of his show.  I just re-watched the "Europeon Alps" episode and he utilizes his parachute and parachute shroud lines as well, which makes perfect sense to me. The example needs to be set to use all resources at hand if you want to survive, one reason I like Les Stroud's shows.

----------


## spiritman

Maybe they don't always stage it, like when they think they will get good enough ratings as it is and will only do it if he's getting along poorly. I believe both of you are equally trustworthy and are providing valid info.

----------


## SOE digital

_ thats how he gets all thos shots of him like 30 feet up in a tree or whatever_ 

No, they also sent a camera man up on a rig also.

----------


## jimjimjimmyjim

yeah i agree about the need of setting the example of using whatever you have available to you. i also just saw that show today. soe digital, keep your negative crap to yourself because fake or not his show offers at least entertainment and some basic survival knowledge and techniques. nobody really cares about what you may or may not know about the show.

----------


## SOE digital

_ soe digital, keep your negative crap to yourself because fake or not his show offers at least entertainment and some basic survival knowledge and techniques_ 

Piss off numpty. I myself have even said several times in this thread and overs that the show is great and good fun. I just don't want young know nothing like yourself going around thinking what you see on that show is REAL. He gives both good and bad advice...and it shouldn't be taken literaly.
Pull your head in.

----------


## MesquiteCharlie

I remember on the elephant dung episode that he explained that something in the elephant's body made the "dung juice" clean.  Personally, I'd dehydrate before I'd drink any dung juice, I don't care what critter squeezed it out.
As for the snake, I don't know, I been pretty hungry before...

----------


## wareagle69

the show is called snow shoes and solitude, les and sue went out in a place called tomagami, ontario.
 good people, i have met les before.   cheers

----------


## wareagle69

to paul vs wild..

please excuse my computer skills but on thing that i would like to point out is that a compentant outdoorsman would always be prepared even if going out on a "quick,short simple" hike, so although i find both interesting i think that les is trying to show the armchair survivalist how to keep thier uneducated butts alive or he could just be making a whole lots of money being entertaining but i happen to know les and he does live as close as he can to the earth.... cheers

oh yeah les does have a second season that he is currently filming this info came from max atwood who was filming me at the time doing a moose calf transfer...

----------


## ATough

the new season comes out augast 10.

----------


## NevadaCarry

I like them both. I started off watching Man vs Wild and then started catching Survivorman. I've read that Man vs Wild has some things setup for him but I don't really care. I think you can pick up good tips from both shows. I don't really look at it as a competition between the two shows.

----------


## tarheelfan

I like them both...Bear Grylls is crazy tough and pretty crazy in the head attempting some of the things he does but you gotta respect him. Les Stroud, survival expert and tough as nails for filming it himself.

----------


## Sarge47

> I like them both...Bear Grylls is crazy tough and pretty crazy in the head attempting some of the things he does but you gotta respect him. Les Stroud, survival expert and tough as nails for filming it himself.


Plus ole' Les can really wail on that harp of his!

----------


## zadig39

I like both shows. I think survivorman is a little closer to the reality many of us would face, showing ways to use parts of vehicles,cameras etc that we may have available and showing the effects of hunger,fatige and depression.But Bear is definately a bad-***. That guy will piss in his own canteen before he even looks for water. And is sure to eat a bug in every episode.

----------


## BillHay

> I have had a little expereince in helping produce some of the North American shows for the discovery channel.
> 
> Bear really does go through the scenerios by himself. The camera crew has never helped him in any way (Other than unwittingly providing light during a night time run from a bear.)
> 
> The 5 day trip has obviously got to be edited down to 1 hour. So what you don't see is his hours if not days of walking to find the plants, springs, streams, trees and animals he encounters along the way.
> 
> You may even notice that some of the scenes are edited out of sequence. If Bear finds a fruit tree, a snake and a spring all in one day, the editors will edit these scenes in over the course of the hour long show. 
> 
> In order to be entertaining, the editing may be out of wack but the trek is all too real for Bear.
> ...


So then its safe to say you worked with Dr.Ron Hood ? If so, what did you think of him? How about the whole water escapade of this Mr.Grylls? I do not beleive. Please help, Man vs Wild is most unconvincing.

----------


## Sarge47

> So then its safe to say you worked with Dr.Ron Hood ? If so, what did you think of him? How about the whole water escapade of this Mr.Grylls? I do not beleive. Please help, Man vs Wild is most unconvincing.


This is an older thread, Bill.  Right now Mr. G. is under fire on the thread:  "I told you freakin' guys!"  And for the record, I have personally talked to Dr. Hood on several occaisons but never attended his school.  He seems like a cool guy, but I think he milks the "survival" game for a steep price.

----------


## mlfuller

I want to first say that I enjoy watching Man vs. Wild.  It is a very interesting show that provides some very useful tips.  However, I find it hard to believe that the show is not staged in some ways.  On the episode where Bear tries to ride a wild horse, if you run the episode in slow motion you can tell that the horse is wearing horse shoes.  I was very disappointed when I saw that.  I had to watch it about 5 or 6 times just to make sure that I really saw that.

----------


## Marvolo

Soe digital:What you're saying isn't fact.

----------


## Marvolo

He does say it may have broken free of a ranch or barn.

----------


## blewgrass

Yeah.. the horses were bogus, and misleading.  I'm pretty gullable but that's a pocket full of wooden nickels.

----------


## SOE digital

Yeah anyone who thinks that was a wild horse is a numpty.

----------


## Farakon

Question for you Atlanta

I'm the one that posted in the other thread about having a friend who saw some guy with an accent in a ditch by the side of the road.

Is it possible that they were filming a shot that would have been difficult / impossible to get.  i.e. They had footage of Bear crawling through a ditch from far away and wanted a close up, shot the close up later and cut it in to look like it was one continuous thing?

Or do they just shoot while he is out in the shiggy and go with what they have?

I don't really have a dog in the Real vs Not Real debate.  I'm just  interested in how it's made.

Thanks

----------


## bravo30

> I have had a little expereince in helping produce some of the North American shows for the discovery channel.
> 
> Bear really does go through the scenerios by himself. The camera crew has never helped him in any way (Other than unwittingly providing light during a night time run from a bear.)
> 
> The 5 day trip has obviously got to be edited down to 1 hour. So what you don't see is his hours if not days of walking to find the plants, springs, streams, trees and animals he encounters along the way.
> 
> You may even notice that some of the scenes are edited out of sequence. If Bear finds a fruit tree, a snake and a spring all in one day, the editors will edit these scenes in over the course of the hour long show. 
> 
> In order to be entertaining, the editing may be out of wack but the trek is all too real for Bear.
> ...


 may not be fake or staged but hes no ''LEE STRAUD''  thats for sure  if you notice in the credits theres a survival expert there ......

----------


## Sarge47

> may not be fake or staged but hes no ''LEE STRAUD''  thats for sure  if you notice in the credits theres a survival expert there ......


The name is Les Stroud, and he uses survival experts as well.  These experts are indigenous to the region our boys are inserting themselves too and are giving them some advice & knowledge to fine-tune their skills.

----------


## spiritman

uh oh... another hard core bear enthusiast... SOE digital i feel your pain

----------


## SOE digital

_ Soe digital:What you're saying isn't fact._ 

It is fact...because I've seen it first hand.

----------


## Sarge47

Or should we start referring to you as the BGG?  Anyway, if you want to go to Bear's website (www.beargrylls.com) you can click onto Bear's Blog and from their click onto "Merchandising" for Bear's really cool t-shirts & Hoodies , & his very own recommendations. (www.beargrylls.itchyfeet.com/index.php. Be warned that they're selling the Leatherman wave for 89 Quid (Pounds to us yanks, around $180.)  Everything I saw there I can buy State-side for half of what they're asking.  The Good news?  Bear says he's shooting a 3rd season, let's all hope it doesn't get canceled.

----------


## nell67

LOL @ Sarge!!!!!!!

----------


## Sarge47

OK guys, go to www.tvtattle.com and scroll down about 11 articles to the one on Discovery channel.  Then click on it.  Bravo Discovery!

----------


## Sarge47

Wow!  Bear is off Discovery's schedule for awhile.  I can't find any reference to him at the Discovery channel's web-site even though he was supposed to have a "season 1" show tonight.  "Season 1" Survivorman episodes are on instead.  Whattaya think?

----------


## nell67

LOL YouTube has removed a interview with Bear Grylls video due to terms of use violation.

----------


## Dark786

i have been waiting for this

----------


## Sarge47

I've been watching a few of Les' back episodes & am reminded why I like it so much.  Les demonstrates how to use whatever's around him, be it wildlife for food, Junk people left behind, etc..  A year ago last spring, using what Les had taught, I visited a wooded area nearby and just did a nature walk noting things that would help me survive.  Here's what I can remember:

An old car hub cap for a "fire pan".
An old tire that would make a good smoke signal if set on fire.
Trees that were down that, coupled with a tarp would make a good shelter.
A small spring leading to a nearby river that would provide water and had both frogs (for eating) and minnows (for bait to be used in fishing the nearby river.)

It really was a lot of fun.

----------


## tarheelfan

Les Stroud is what essentially got me into learning survival skills and really appreciating the outdoors, a gift from God that many people dont take the time to really stop and appreciate...i mean i've always loved being in the outdoors growing up in the south (fishing, hunting, camping, etc.) but after watching his shows I was literally outside building survival shelters in the acres we owned of previously unused woods...lol...I even brought the show to school one time and our Biology teacher showed it in class...talk about relief (not a big fan of Bio Class)...but anyway les stroud is a true outdoorsman and i am glad he is still going strong. Although i do hope bear brings another season of entertainment and outdoor skills...i cant help it, i like the show.. :Big Grin:

----------


## sticks65

ray mears is one of the UKs top bushcraft experts and he keeps it real no bull---- hope you get his show in the U.S.A soon.

----------


## zadig39

"numpty" new to me. I like it.

----------


## spiritman

I was excited to see the notice while i watched the boreal forest episode last night that there would be new survivorman episodes on Fridays at 9!

----------


## Texan

Im new here but after reading these strings about Man vs.Wild I new that this was the right place for me. That show is completely bogus and the things that Bear does will only get someone hurt or sick if they were to try it. The thing that really got me was that on one episode he wouldnt drink the water from a N. American rocky mountain stream without boiling it because of the risk of girdia, and on the next episode i saw him drink urine directly from a fresh elephant turd in the African Savana.

----------


## Texan

Les Stroud is a true survivalist and his show is legit. Bear Grills is an idiot and his show is a work of fiction.

----------


## Sarge47

> Im new here but after reading these strings about Man vs.Wild I new that this was the right place for me. That show is completely bogus and the things that Bear does will only get someone hurt or sick if they were to try it. The thing that really got me was that on one episode he wouldnt drink the water from a N. American rocky mountain stream without boiling it because of the risk of girdia, and on the next episode i saw him drink urine directly from a fresh elephant turd in the African Savana.


Not to mention when he was in Kimberly Australia he urinated into his own canteen and drank it, assuring viewers that it was okay to drink your own urine!

----------


## sticks65

> Heres the deal. . .  Man vs Wild pretty much shows you what not to do. survivorman shows you what he would do. every situation is diffrent but the goal is to get found and not get hurt witch i think is displayed more in survivorman. the dude in man vs wild showed us that you should climb a 40 foot tree in the jungle to get a better look around, real smart, that show is a joke. atleast survivorman is believable and solo.if they got in a fight against one another survivor man would beat him senseless and live of his corpse for weeks. someone is going or allready did get hurt taking advice from man vs bloated entertainment industry.. . . . . .oh sorry . . . .wild


so now it,s not which show is more realistic it,s who would win in a fight.My money is on bear who served with British special forces.

----------


## Texan

Yeah I must have missed that episode cause after the first couple of times i watched it i realized that Bear was full of it and i havent went out of the way to try and catch anymore of his shows.

----------


## Sarge47

:EEK!:  Why not give them dueling pistols and stand back-to-back, count off ten paces, turn & fire?   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  here's the point guys, it's not a contest, just two guys trying to make a living teaching survival.  One's British, one's Canadian, but they're both well paid. :Wink:

----------


## sticks65

it,s only television and its all rubbish.

----------


## Sarge47

Here's the problems I have with both survival shows involving Les & Bear.  Our two survivors become some kind of "super-heros" to us.  Les' show is called "Survivorman", similar to "Superman". :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):    It implies that he can survive anything that's thrown at him.  Same with Bear G..  (Should be called "Bear vs. Ratings.) :Stick Out Tongue:   Guys, it's just not so!  Survival isn't the latest "game-show" or "Extreme sport"; it's life OR death!!!!  Niether one of these guys  could have survived the hurricanes or Tsunnis that hit a while back if they were in the wrong place.  I watch the shows because I want to see certain survival skills and tools actually being used out in the field.  I don't particuarly care to see two guys in a lot better shape than I am surviving a situation that they set up in advance.  That's just not how it works. :EEK!:  

 In J. Wayne Fear's book:  "The Complete Book Of Outdoor Survival, which, by the way, you can buy from Amazon for about 6 bucks, he tells how not every survival situation is about being lost, but in some cases, can rise up from being stranded.  Sometimes it's about making wrong decisions, sometimes being in a desolate place and injured really bad.  During his "plane crash scenario" Les tried handicapping himself by limiting himself to using only one arm.  He had to give it up! :Embarrassment:    Let's have some real survival shows out there, like the one I recommended awhile back!

----------


## FVR

Okay, little lost here as my response was to Rasputin.

----------


## wareagle69

damn sarge gotta disagree with you on this one.

  i don't care much for bear, he is entertaining but i think he shows just about everything not to do in a scenario.

 now lets get to les
  i like the guy, he is not saying he could have survived a tsunami or done a show on urban survival yet ie huricane( although maybe i should e mail that one to him) i think he is showing what the average joe could to in these situations as we all know survival is mostly mental, maybe someone will have seen his show and think that they are capable of doing the same, the only superman stuff that les does is carry all that camera equipment around.

  speaking of carrying everything around what does bear do he was sas, did a partial traing with the ffl climbed everest(how much a sherpa pulled him up? who knows) and crossed the artic by himself, now thats impressive, but it doesn,t make me think that i could do any of that unlike les

 great thread sarge always lok forward to reading your thoughts but that is what makes life so great is everyones respectful differences

 what about the rest of the wolfpack? what are your thoughts?

----------


## wareagle69

hey sarge did you find out about ray mears yet? he is probably the best show to watch.  what ray teaches is bushcraft(oddly enough thats the name of the show) he does have a show called extreme survival but i like buscraft better.
  i do agree with you and gringo abouta more realistic show heck maybe even a reality show if you can't make fire or tools, your out

----------


## Sarge47

> damn sarge gotta disagree with you on this one.
> 
>   i don't care much for bear, he is entertaining but i think he shows just about everything not to do in a scenario.
> 
>  now lets get to les
>   i like the guy, he is not saying he could have survived a tsunami or done a show on urban survival yet ie huricane( although maybe i should e mail that one to him) i think he is showing what the average joe could to in these situations as we all know survival is mostly mental, maybe someone will have seen his show and think that they are capable of doing the same, the only superman stuff that les does is carry all that camera equipment around.
> 
>   speaking of carrying everything around what does bear do he was sas, did a partial traing with the ffl climbed everest(how much a sherpa pulled him up? who knows) and crossed the artic by himself, now thats impressive, but it doesn,t make me think that i could do any of that unlike les
> 
> ...


Actually, at this point in time Les has both age and physical stamina on me. :Embarrassment:  
However, it's the way the show is promoted that bothers me. How many here could do the things these guys do just as well?  Almost all of you, I'll bet.  Yet you don't get a cool logo and your own program, if you catch my drift.  All that being said, I'll be right down in front of my TV when Les' new series starts.  I guess there's some more stuff going on about Bear when he jumped into the ice hole to demonstrate how to get out, and even Dr. Ron Hood has weighed in on his phony stuff.  Man I hope he gets a 3rd season too, though.

----------


## Sarge47

> hey sarge did you find out about ray mears yet? he is probably the best show to watch.  what ray teaches is bushcraft(oddly enough thats the name of the show) he does have a show called extreme survival but i like buscraft better.
>   i do agree with you and gringo abouta more realistic show heck maybe even a reality show if you can't make fire or tools, your out


Haven't found anything yet, bro, other than occaisional referances to him.  Ironically enough, "Bushcraft" is also the title of a Mors Kochanski book on Wilderness Survival.

----------


## wareagle69

thats the point sarge, les is showing us that it is anything that anyone of us are capable of doing. as for getting my own show gotta know the right people.

----------


## FVR

I do like Les, but hey, there is just something about a guy who drinks elephant crap water, wraps a pee laden t shirt around his face, drinks pee, eats live snakes, and drinks nasty water.

And that's Entertainment.

Honestly, Bear does not impress me.  I have many friends who are much more impressive, they just don't have thier own tv shows.

----------


## Sarge47

> I do like Les, but hey, there is just something about a guy who drinks elephant crap water, wraps a pee laden t shirt around his face, drinks pee, eats live snakes, and drinks nasty water.
> 
> And that's Entertainment.
> 
> Honestly, Bear does not impress me.  I have many friends who are much more impressive, they just don't have thier own tv shows.


I hear that!  Les definately keeps it more real.  I realized that just watching the recent reruns of his 1st season this weekend. It's the way the shows are hyped that's a bit problematic for me.  It's why we have the "Which do you :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   like better" thread.

----------


## Fog_Harbor

> I have seen Man vs. Wild and enjoyed it. But I have not seen Survivorman yet. I don't even know when it airs in our area? I will have to look for it because I think it sounds interesting.


You can catch either on Discovery on Friday nights.

----------


## Fog_Harbor

> My husband and kids love to watch these shows. Do you think they have anything to actually teach people about surviving in on "have-to" basis?


To be honest, either of them will get you dead if you depend on them for a teaching tool.  They both have the skills, but both do things that'll get you hurt if you don't know what you're doing.  I like both shows, but not for learning the skills.

----------


## NevadaCarry

I have to admit, I'm liking Survivorman more and more. Thanks to my Media Center I've been recording all the shows that come on and I think I'm pretty much caught up. Can't wait for the new season. I'll still watch both though.

----------


## trax

> I It's the way the shows are hyped that's a bit problematic for me.


You keep coming back to that Sarge, and that's exactly what it is. If sponsors think people are going to watch a guy eating scorpions or falling off mountains, that's the guy they're going to get and the hype is going to make the casual observer (they've got 30 seconds to hook you as a viewer, right?) believe the guy is superman or whatever. If they think the viewer wants to see Joe Average out there struggling against the environment, bingo! line the guy up. Find someone like NorthFace of MEC to outfit him and away he goes. I'm not going to let my survival depend on something I saw on a TV show, for one reason I can't afford about 90% of the gear those guys use, anymore than I'm going to start believing the "news" on Fox, CNN and a lot of other news broadcasts. I seldom see TV anymore any way...can't be bothered. Turns out they just want to sell me the right brand of toothpaste!

I think that forums such as these, where a person can offer their point of view in a respectful and intelligent manner and receive responses the same way (and I applaud disagreement, as long as both parties aren't attacking one another) may be the last bastion for true information sharing we have. It's one of the few uses I have for the InterWeb or the worldwidenet or whatever

----------


## Xplosive22

Bear Grylls has mentioned that what he does on his show is what HE himself would do (and does) to survive in the given scenario. Other shows like Survivorman portray DIFFERENT scenarios with different resources available. So to say that one person is wrong or the information is "bogus" for not being the same as what a "better expert" says is nonsense.

People will survive as they are taught to survive. Many strategies and methods of survival work. Some better than others. I believe the shows are intended to make people think more creatively and to give a sense of caution to life-saving decisions. It isn't necessarily meant to be repeated exactly as done.

And you CAN drink urine. It is mostly water and because of your internal temperature it comes out sterile. If you don't have a water source, you reuse what you have. Not to mention that if you let yourself get dehydrated just to put off the inevitable because you *think* you will find clean water,  you will end up peeing very little of a higher concentration of waste. I've been dehydrated, I know.

So for all of you people bashing Bear Grylls or Les Stroud or whoever else has a show, you aught to think about it less in terms of precise information and more in terms of possibilities for survival. Both of these survivalists have gotten ill on their shows but it doesn't mean that it was stupid of them to eat what they ate or have drunk what they drank.

Being picky and critical about every little thing can and most likely will get you into a worse situation than being reasonable and using logic.

----------


## SOE digital

_ So for all of you people bashing Bear Grylls or Les Stroud or whoever else has a show_ 

We aint bashing Les Stroud....because he's not a lying douche.

----------


## Sarge47

> Bear Grylls has mentioned that what he does on his show is what HE himself would do (and does) to survive in the given scenario. Other shows like Survivorman portray DIFFERENT scenarios with different resources available. So to say that one person is wrong or the information is "bogus" for not being the same as what a "better expert" says is nonsense.
> 
> People will survive as they are taught to survive. Many strategies and methods of survival work. Some better than others. I believe the shows are intended to make people think more creatively and to give a sense of caution to life-saving decisions. It isn't necessarily meant to be repeated exactly as done.
> 
> And you CAN drink urine. It is mostly water and because of your internal temperature it comes out sterile. If you don't have a water source, you reuse what you have. Not to mention that if you let yourself get dehydrated just to put off the inevitable because you *think* you will find clean water,  you will end up peeing very little of a higher concentration of waste. I've been dehydrated, I know.
> 
> So for all of you people bashing Bear Grylls or Les Stroud or whoever else has a show, you aught to think about it less in terms of precise information and more in terms of possibilities for survival. Both of these survivalists have gotten ill on their shows but it doesn't mean that it was stupid of them to eat what they ate or have drunk what they drank.
> 
> Being picky and critical about every little thing can and most likely will get you into a worse situation than being reasonable and using logic.


Don't hold back, tell us what you really think. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  By the way, welcome to the wolf pack!  Are we dissin' Bear?  You bet dawg, which is our unalienable right as members of the TV audiance. :Mad:

----------


## ATough

I like both shows I dont see why people cant like both man vs. wild and survivorman.sure bear looks staged some times. but it is still I cool show. and all the poepl who like less hate bear and the other way around.

----------


## Sarge47

> I like both shows I dont see why people cant like both man vs. wild and survivorman.sure bear looks staged some times. but it is still I cool show. and all the poepl who like less hate bear and the other way around.


I don't love nor hate either of those guys.  I'll be watching any shows that they put on.  But I'd still like to see Dr. Ron Hood or even this Ray Mears guy along with them. :Cool:

----------


## Xplosive22

Thanks for the welcome.  :Smile:  

I like both shows although I find Man vs Wild to explain things better. It has an educational feel to it and Bear is very articulated and easy to listen to and great fun to watch.

Survivorman is comedic from my point of view. I especially like the Boreal Forest episode where he boils a plant root in his hat and makes sour faces as he eats it. The throwing up was funny too.  :Smile: 

They both present somewhat unrealistic situations though. It is a little easier to keep your cool knowing that people are aware of your situation and WILL come rescue you should you need help.

Really though, the information is useful and I have a higher awareness of the usefulness of my surroundings when I go out.

----------


## Sarge47

No debate there mate.  Both shows do fill a void in the "world of outdoor survival", that's for sure! :Wink:

----------


## sam30248

bear takes  to many chances,survivorman is more  real

----------


## Xplosive22

I agree with that. I suppose when you're loves contain climbing and parachuting you tend to incorporate it into your lifestyle. You can clearly see that Bear Grylls has a more adventurous time with his filming. I can appreciate that though. If you're comfortable that you'll survive the night, why not have a little fun?  :Stick Out Tongue:  

In all seriousness though, the enthusiasm of the host really makes a difference in how much you take in from the show and the entertainment value.

----------


## SOE digital

http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/b...d_Inaccuracies

Ahahahahahahhahahahha!
A list off al the stupid things that Bear does.
Eating eggshells? Why the **** would you do that. Stupid.

----------


## Sarge47

> http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/b...d_Inaccuracies
> 
> Ahahahahahahhahahahha!
> A list off al the stupid things that Bear does.
> Eating eggshells? Why the **** would you do that. Stupid.


This was really good reading, thanks for sharing dude! :Wink:

----------


## donny h

> This was really good reading, thanks for sharing dude!


Yeah, what Sarge said, that's good stuff, thank you.

That is how we learn from what Bear does, by analyzing what he does wrong, and learning from it. In this way, Bear really can help us learn about wilderness survival.

Of course, Darwin Award candidates may literally follow his every move and die as a result, but we can't really do anything about that, except maybe sharing advice with others both online and in person. Then again, Darwin Award types generally neither seek nor heed advice.

----------


## ky archer

I have only seen Man vs Wild one time and almost threw my Bud Light at the television and some of the crap he was doing. I believe he was in the Copper Canyon region of Mexico and just doing some stupid s$%t in my opinion.He was climbing down a sheer cliff and then jumping over a gulch to get down when it was obvious that an easier and SAFER route was visible from the top of the ridge he was on. Then he was jumping off of waterfalls into a river with no way of knowing what lay beneath the water. If you are in a survival situation these are things you should never take a chance on,unless someone's chasing you with an AK 47! I like Survivorman much better as it is more realistic and Les rarely takes stupid chances like whats his face does. Just my opinion.

----------


## Xplosive22

I like both but I find Man vs Wild to be more adventurous and educational and Bear has a very articulated speaking voice.

Both hosts have back-up help so there is no sense in arguing about it. Bear has a film crew and Les Stroud has people that know where he is that can come help him. It wouldn't be on television if the star had absolutely no way of getting medical attention.

And neither mans methods will "get you killed". Oh, except if you fail to do them without killing yourself. That's right, you are responsible for doing things in a correct manner to keep YOURSELF alive. If Bear climbs down a rock face and lives and you do it and die then it is your fault. If Les Stroud cooks a venomous snake and you repeat it but forget about removing the head and die, YOUR FAULT.

Surviving is all about knowing what you are doing. It isn't about simply repeating things exactly as you see it. The idea of the shows are to accumulate knowledge that can help. They certainly don't put in the disclaimer that you should reenact the scenarios seen on television to the letter. Every situation is different.

----------


## Xplosive22

I'm a little surprised to see how seriously some people take these two shows. They are both fine and semi-educational. Neither one is the damn Holy Bible of Survival. 

Realistically I think that a lot of people have issues with the show because it is their main source of information for survival.

It is a good idea to do research outside of television. Like books or actual hands-on training from a survival school or the military.

Everyone does things according to what they know and how they believe they can best remedy a situation. Both Les and Bear have payed consequences for doing things that clearly didn't go over well with their bodies. IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES.

----------


## Survivorman

for man vs wild.

most of the time he does stupid things because people are stupid, he shows you what to do if you do something stupid, when he throws himself into a river he shows you what to do to prevent hypothermia. but i think bear himself doesn't realize some of the things he does, the average man cant climb cliffs like he does, or fly down tree's or climb up them, he does most things people without huge psychical training cannot do. 

he does do alot of stupid things, when i saw him squeeze the elephant dung for water...you're just asking to kill yourself, i dont care how thirsty i am for water, the sheer amount of bacteria and parasites he got from that must've been numerous, and eating a fish raw? common sense, cook everything and anything you can, even if its okay to eat it raw, past like wild berries or something i'd cook everything in sight. 

i also dont like his sheer affection for constantly trying to be in a rush wherever he goes, if you notice he's always trying to gain alot of ground fast, in very dangerous ways, holding onto logs while going down rapids just to save yourself 15 minutes of walking is just sheer insanity, he knows he'll be out of there in a day or two(thats how often his shows span, never seen him go past two days really) and he's always just overexerting himself, he doesn't know how to conserve energy at all, which brings me to my next point.


For survivorman

the first thing survivor man tries to teach you is the best thing to do is often sit still and wait for help, but as he said, the psychology of people thinking they can get out themselves is always powerful, one that he himself falls to.

les never runs, he never does daring things, he stays calm, takes his time and keeps his cool. He cooks ALOT of things and he shows what works and what doesn't work, he shows you the real hardships of survival, using his last pieces of food only to have empty traps and lost bait, trying out survival methods he's heard of but never tried, and doing methods he's known but never tried himself. 

another thing i love is the psychology of the show, you see when Les is down, you see when loneliness effects him (and he breaks out his harmonica to bring his spirits up). one thing you must see is that a #1 factor in surviving is all about attitude, you always see bear happy and smiling and hoping around, why? he has a camera crew to talk to when the camera's off, heck he even talks to them when its filming and dont you find it weird he's always so energetic? it makes me wonder if the camera crew is slipping him some energy bars in the off hours. 

and les, you see him tired DESPITE always taking the path of least resistance and keeping calm and taking things slowly, he's out there for 7 days all the time,i  doubt bear is out there that long but you notice the difference as to how it is when people are around and when they are not, if you've ever seen les with his family, he's alot more energetic and happy (watch off the grid or when he's doing shows or promos with a camera crew, its nice when people are around and you dont have to haul 50 lbs of camera equipment).

as for credentials, i wonder how many know that Les and his wife, in their first year of marriage decided to live out in the woods *for a whole year*, no metal, no plastic, nothing. it was titled snowshoes and solitude, i suggest you check it out when the DVD comes out for it. basically they Travel by canoe and in the winter by snowshoe, Les and his wife were attempting to replicate life in North America 500 years ago, before Europeans first set foot on the continent. They created fire without matches. They built a shelter with a stone axe. They survived on only what they could survive, if that isn't credentials for knowing how to survive in the bush i dont know what is, a whole year, blows bears training by a mile and a half.

yes, Stroud is a musician also, his work is in film and music, but his passion is the outdoors, if you want to see what he has done check this out

http://www.lesstroudonline.com/tv.html

thats just his publicated stuff, you'll see a thing titled Stranded there too, that was basically the inspiration for the show he's now known for which is obviously survivorman.


basically when it comes down to it, if i had to pick anyone to teach me survival or to have a partner to deal with the bush, it would be the calm jolly Canadian musician who takes his time and is careful on top of having lived in the bush for a whole year with his wife over the gun hoe British guy with military training who has hurt himself more times then i can count and is always in a rush to get from point A to B despite being in a survival situation where safety and conservation is top priority.

Bear Grylls Is a Soldier through and through, he has great strength, great endurance, and he's highly mobile,  he gets props for doing Everest as well as being a nice guy (he's a motivational speaker despite his survival career).

Les Stroud is a Musician/film maker who has made outdoors a integral part of his life, its what he and his family loves, its what they do for fun and as part of their lives, For bear its training, for Les its life itself, he may not show his strength in displays  like bear does, but you think hauling around 50-80 lbs of camera equipment and filming all that by yourself is an easy thing? he has a even harder time as when he's walking and filming himself, you think that stationary camera is going to follow him? nope, he walks back and grabs it, he gets credit because he does everything himself.

----------


## HOP

It is my understanding that Ron Hood was the expert on bears show for a short while and he indicates tha reality is a little weak there.
I find that bear shows me how not to act in a survival situation, and takes to many chances. I have sen him rappel with a 5/8ths rope he said was salvaged from his paraschute (the new 550 I guess). Maybe it is his military training that makes him take so many chances(escape & evade is priorty in  much of the training) Botom line its intertaing but poorly stage and less than honest.

----------


## SOE digital

The thing that ****s me about Man vs Wild is the fact that he IS SELLING it as an educational show! That's the way they pitch it. He always says "...and I'm going to show YOU how to do it". Yeah, good one Bear, show everyone how to completely f*** themselves up and catch a million different types of water and flesh born diseases!
I know you'd have to be an idiot to take the guy seriously but let's face it:
America (no offence) has some of the most naive people in the world and they're probably the biggest audience for this show.

You can't go on tv and say that you can do 'this and that' in order to survive, when it's all f***ing staged and safe. Bear is rarely in any real danger because he has an emergancy crew at hand. Some retard American kid is going to see Man vs Wild, think that it's real and use the advice in real life...because the show is promoted as being educational and above all else: REAL.
It is niether. It's just one stupid numpty who knows nothing about surviving in the wild who does stupid **** for the cameras and passes it all off as being legit.

...and don't give me this "oh he was in the SAS" **** either please kids. He was only in the reservist unit as far as I'm aware.

----------


## ATough

who posted that?

----------


## nell67

Survivorman with a capitol S

----------


## trax

One of my teachers in life once told me that I had to make up my mind every day what kind of example I was going to set. I wanted to argue with her about it, but she countered with, "How do you know someone isn't watching your every move? You decide what kind of example you're going to give them by your actions. You're an example, you get to decide whether good or bad." Made sense. When you see someone doing something totally s###headed, don' t do it! Some of the stunts I hear about this guy pulling, I don't think anyone in their right mind is going to try. Education complete, lol!

----------


## Sarge47

> I'm a little surprised to see how seriously some people take these two shows. They are both fine and semi-educational. Neither one is the damn Holy Bible of Survival. 
> 
> Realistically I think that a lot of people have issues with the show because it is their main source of information for survival.
> 
> It is a good idea to do research outside of television. Like books or actual hands-on training from a survival school or the military.
> 
> Everyone does things according to what they know and how they believe they can best remedy a situation. Both Les and Bear have payed consequences for doing things that clearly didn't go over well with their bodies. IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES.


These two programs are presented as LEGITAMATE survival shows. :Mad:    Also, there's no way you can convince me that the majority of "the Wolf Pack" doesn't study other sources outside of these two shows, a good reading of all the posts on this site proves that! :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## ATough

ooh okay. this is going to be weird. lol

----------


## ZTGuy

> Bottom line here folks, never stray far from home without some form of survival kit on your person.  I have built about seven of them, from a small, pocket-sized one all the way up to a large one complete with an AR-7 .22cal. survival rifle.  I would like to see both shows stressing the importance of carrying survival items on your person at all times.


Spot on my friend.  Not to sound like an armchair survivalist wacko, but at a bare minimum, I have on my person at all times the following (also keep in mind I live pretty much "in the woods", and have often had to chase my dog into the woods to retrieve him):  my edc Strider folding knife kept in RFP; a backup folder kept in BRP; a Leatherman Charge Ti kept in LFP; my wallet with creds etc in left front cargo pocket; a "Light My Fire" firesteel flint also in left front cargo; cell phone, pepper spray, and a can of Kodiak in right front cargo pocket; and finally a locking carabiner with a couple yards of 550 cord wrapped around it on my belt.  I guess what makes alot of this possible is the type of clothing I wear (i.e., stuff that has alot of pockets ;-).  Sarge, I also have a black AR-7 Henry US Survival rifle- amongst a few others- great little survival gun......and it floats when stored in the self-containing unit.

----------


## Cwolfx

Here are my opinions on both shows and their hosts.

- Bear : Very entertaining, and does have some useful tactics and skills you can use to survive. He is in my top favorite people on the discovery channel.

- Les : Les is very knowledgeable in wilderness survival. He knows to inform you that he is not perfect, and he does make mistakes. He is safe, and shows you how to be aswell. Also in the top 5 favorite people on Discovery.

- Man VS Wild : Very good show. I watched every episode in one sitting. The thing that people don't understand is that every survival show doesn't have to be without camera men. Bear chooses to have camera men, and that doesn't make his show any more fake. He isn't there to show you that he can survive in the wild by himself, but to teach you how to.

- Survivor Man : My all time favorite show. It truely captivates the real essence of survival. The host does an excelent job of showing you what to do in survival situations all over the world, and the fact that he doesn't have a camera crew makes it even more exciting. There is nothing wrong with this show at all.

----------


## Sarge47

> Here are my opinions on both shows and their hosts.
> 
> - Bear : Very entertaining, and does have some useful tactics and skills you can use to survive. He is in my top favorite people on the discovery channel.
> 
> - Les : Les is very knowledgeable in wilderness survival. He knows to inform you that he is not perfect, and he does make mistakes. He is safe, and shows you how to be aswell. Also in the top 5 favorite people on Discovery.
> 
> - Man VS Wild : Very good show. I watched every episode in one sitting. The thing that people don't understand is that every survival show doesn't have to be without camera men. Bear chooses to have camera men, and that doesn't make his show any more fake. He isn't there to show you that he can survive in the wild by himself, but to teach you how to.
> 
> - Survivor Man : My all time favorite show. It truely captivates the real essence of survival. The host does an excelent job of showing you what to do in survival situations all over the world, and the fact that he doesn't have a camera crew makes it even more exciting. There is nothing wrong with this show at all.


No offense Dawg, we're not talking "camera personel" here, we're talking deliberate mis-leading of the public on a "self-proclaimed" educational network. :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Cwolfx

Well technically, they do provide acurate information. The way we choose to enterpret this information is our choice.

The information provided by bear seems to lean more towards specific situations. Although I do admit that his tactics could be risky for the average person.

With Les, he doesn't take many dangerous risks, and he shows the necessitys of survival. I will argue that Les provides nothing but true, factual means of survival. He has made mistakes before on his show, and openly admits it.

Dawg  :Wink: 

- And you guys are talking about Camera crews. Heres proof.

*he has a camera crew to talk to when the camera's off, heck he even talks to them when its filming and dont you find it weird he's always so energetic? it makes me wonder if the camera crew is slipping him some energy bars in the off hours. 
*

----------


## Survivorman

> who posted that?


I'm Your evil twin!

----------


## ATough

its scary couse when I see Survivorman and I know I diddnt post it, its kinda weird. lol

----------


## trax

> It is a good idea to do research outside of television.


Nope, sorry....too much work, might have to think. Can't do it, uh-uh. I go out into the wilds and the TV comes with me, I plug it into a currant bush :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:

----------


## trax

> I'm Your evil twin!


I am soooo jealous, I wanna be someone's evil twin! Anyone??? Please?? LOL

----------


## trax

Man, with all that SIP (stuff in pockets) you better hang onto that AR7 if you FIW (fall in water) or you're gonna SLR (sink like rock)

Just kiddin' dude, welcome to the wolfpack!

----------


## ZTGuy

> Man, with all that SIP (stuff in pockets) you better hang onto that AR7 if you FIW (fall in water) or you're gonna SLR (sink like rock)
> 
> Just kiddin' dude, welcome to the wolfpack!


Thanks for the welcome, trax.  Believe it or not, the total weight is actually not that bad......it's nothing compared to the gear I wear on my duty belt at work, perhaps that is why I don't even really notice it- everything's relative I guess.  Take care, bro.

----------


## trax

Uh-oh...now I have to start saying nice things about cops?? Glad you got a sense of humor man, I was trying to take a dig at all those acronyms you used I had to keep stopping reading to figure out RFP and LBP and all that, lol. (My best friend is a cop, by the way, {ducking})

----------


## Fog_Harbor

Don't get too excited, Bear only filmed four episodes for this season, and they've already aired.  His site is still on the Dicovery Channel site

----------


## Xplosive22

> Here are my opinions on both shows and their hosts.
> 
> - Bear : Very entertaining, and does have some useful tactics and skills you can use to survive. He is in my top favorite people on the discovery channel.
> 
> - Les : Les is very knowledgeable in wilderness survival. He knows to inform you that he is not perfect, and he does make mistakes. He is safe, and shows you how to be aswell. Also in the top 5 favorite people on Discovery.
> 
> - Man VS Wild : Very good show. I watched every episode in one sitting. The thing that people don't understand is that every survival show doesn't have to be without camera men. Bear chooses to have camera men, and that doesn't make his show any more fake. He isn't there to show you that he can survive in the wild by himself, but to teach you how to.
> 
> - Survivor Man : My all time favorite show. It truely captivates the real essence of survival. The host does an excelent job of showing you what to do in survival situations all over the world, and the fact that he doesn't have a camera crew makes it even more exciting. There is nothing wrong with this show at all.


Good way to sum it up. I agree with you.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Fog_Harbor

> I've been watching a few of Les' back episodes & am reminded why I like it so much.  Les demonstrates how to use whatever's around him, be it wildlife for food, Junk people left behind, etc..  A year ago last spring, using what Les had taught, I visited a wooded area nearby and just did a nature walk noting things that would help me survive.  Here's what I can remember:
> 
> An old car hub cap for a "fire pan".
> An old tire that would make a good smoke signal if set on fire.
> Trees that were down that, coupled with a tarp would make a good shelter.
> A small spring leading to a nearby river that would provide water and had both frogs (for eating) and minnows (for bait to be used in fishing the nearby river.)
> 
> It really was a lot of fun.


I do that frequently.  I learned it from our local volunteer disaster response team course.  They called it "Seeing With Earthquake Eyes"

I call it "What'll kill me and what'll help me"

OK. You're right.  I'm paranoid.  I wanted to join Paranoids' Anonymous, but they wouldn't tell me where the meetings were...

----------


## Sarge47

> Don't get too excited, Bear only filmed four episodes for this season, and they've already aired.  His site is still on the Dicovery Channel site


Are you talking about Bear or Les? :Confused:

----------


## spiritman

I was talking about Les Stroud

----------


## Devin

survivor man because Bear do stuped things

----------


## Cwolfx

> Good way to sum it up. I agree with you.


Aha, I knew someone would agree soon  :Wink:  Thanks, its good to have some support.

----------


## HOP

If Bear gets canceled I will have to go back to watching Road Runner (now there is a survivor)

----------


## wareagle69

i found bear fakes grizzly attack about half way down

----------


## owl_girl

> i found bear fakes grizzly attack about half way down


Yah but that was one person's word agents another's. So who ever people want to believe their gona. Not soled evidence either way.

----------


## FVR

Talk about losing your reputation.

----------


## Dark786

hey u bggs  bear grills is a fake dumd arse he is an imposter that is why the discory channel cancled him .  he is not a surviror just intertament its like watching a comedy .

----------


## Sarge47

> hey u bggs  bear grills is a fake dumd arse he is an imposter that is why the discory channel cancled him .  he is not a surviror just intertament its like watching a comedy .


Hate bustin' yer bubble, Dark Dude, but don't count the mighty Bear out yet!  I received an answer just yesterday to a question I e-mailed to Discovery and they said he will be back, but that there will be more disclaimers and clearer explanations throughout!  Les Stroud is really smart doing his own filming as if he does decide to cheat there's no witnesses! :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## FVR

More disclaimers, hmmm.

In a real fast lawyer voice and jargan.

BG reserves the right to; use a porta potty, spend nights in hotels, eat hotel food, take showers....................(AHHHHHHH THAT'S WHY THE SOB NEVER GOT HEAT RASH'S IN THE JUNGLES, HE TOOK SHOWERS, USED CLEAN TOWELS TO DRY OFF, APPLIED BABY POWDER OR HAD AN ASSISTANT DO THAT, THEN PUT ON NEWLY WASHED AND DRY UNDIES)  GB reserves the right to cut and paste and make up situations that he really is not in, and he reserves the right to dress his buddies up in bear costumes to throw "SCARY" shadows in the twilight hours.

I reserve the right to just laugh my arse off when he's on tv.  British SOS, he probably took a college coarse in British military history and then had is arse carried up Everest.

Guys a joke.

----------


## HOP

I like both shows while both are edited many secenes of Bears are staged(Ron Hood was advisor on Bear's show for a short while and had a few negative things to say about this) and now there is word about Bear staying in hotels at night and geting a lot of support from his crew. I Think that Les tries to show a senario as it might really go down. An as for good speling I am amazed that the human race actually survived before written word although I did see less put a message in a bottle.

----------


## criticalmass

I loved the fist season of Survivorman with Les Stroud (sp?).  And I was exited about Man vs Wild until I started watching the first show and he was "using" a river to travel farther faster.........it was obvious that he had a life vest on under his shirt. I turned it imediately and have not watched since.

----------


## tarheelfan

Well w/ all the controversy surrounding bear grylls lately i thought that me and my friend should take action and make a survival show also...w/ bear grylls possible contract termination, who knows...you might be seeing this on Discovery soon...lol 

(All footage was taken from a recent hike basically to just document the hike but then we saw how fun it was to poke fun at Bear so this is the result..DO NOT take advice to heart or you will probably hurt yourself...watch at your own risk...ENJOY!!! I also want to make clear this is a joke and not bashing Bear Grylls,im not into that....nevertheless laugh it up)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9fdKPznumGA

----------


## spiritman

Dang it I want to see it!

----------


## tarheelfan

Haha...i will try to re-upload later today...it really started on accident when i was climbing a rock during a hike while my friend was filming and i started quoting bear grylls. I'll PM u when i upload.  :Big Grin:

----------


## nell67

LOL that was funny!,ready to try to clean your teeth again?!!!!

----------


## tarheelfan

> nell67 - LOL that was funny!,ready to try to clean your teeth again?!!!!


I think im just going to stick with a tooth brush frm now on...it wasnt too bad until i started chewing it and then it had this horrible tart taste to it...lol..Im definately goin to leave that for bear grylls frm now on though!!! :Big Grin:

----------


## nell67

Your dentist will probably thank you for that  :Big Grin:

----------


## spiritman

> Haha...i will try to re-upload later today...it really started on accident when i was climbing a rock during a hike while my friend was filming and i started quoting bear grylls. I'll PM u when i upload.


That would be great!

----------


## spiritman

lol you should send it to the discovery network

----------


## tarheelfan

> lol you should send it to the discovery network


Yea, i think they might go for it...lol...although im not too sure if our survival "tips" are safe enough to be revealed to the general public..lol  :Big Grin:

----------


## blewgrass

Man vs. Wild has vanished from Discovery and I don't see the ads any more.  Survivorman is on now which is ok by me.  Les is great.
Anyone know the full skinny?

----------


## spiritman

There are about 50 threads about this and they all have something different to say. They all end on a few simple truths though. Bear is fake but entertaining, Les Stroud keeps it more real but doesn't like to kill anything with fur, There will always be BGG's, and we will all watch both shows anyways.

----------


## Sarge47

> There are about 50 threads about this and they all have something different to say. They all end on a few simple truths though. Bear is fake but entertaining, Les Stroud keeps it more real but doesn't like to kill anything with fur, There will always be BGG's, and we will all watch both shows anyways.


Nice summation Spiritman! :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## ryaninmichigan

I find them both entertaining and nothing more. If you watch MvW and try to learn something to duplicate at a different time you are going to die quickly in the woods. First off, He parachutes in. In a real scenario where you drop from the sky it would be from a plane crash. (Unless you somehow got pushed from a plan) Anyway in a plane crash we all know where the best place to be rescued is and it is not 100 miles away 3 canyons over. With a piss soaked boxers on your head. Staying with the wreck is not very entertaining and the show would be 15 minutes long.

----------


## spiritman

> Nice summation Spiritman!


Gee thanks Sarge!!!

----------


## tarheelfan

> spiritman - There are about 50 threads about this and they all have something different to say. They all end on a few simple truths though. Bear is fake but entertaining, Les Stroud keeps it more real but doesn't like to kill anything with fur, There will always be BGG's, and we will all watch both shows anyways.


Spiritman just summarized half the forum w/ one paragraph...lol  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dark786

LOL, Thats no joke.

----------


## spiritman

> Spiritman just summarized half the forum w/ one paragraph...lol


A few of my teachers got outright mad when i would summarize too much. I always used as little description as possible when they wanted as much as possible.

----------


## Strider

I think that (by the sound of it) most of the show isn't totally true. Some of the things I've heard would make any normal human sick, and people have noticed he never really gets sick or hurt badly or anything... i don't really know... most things on TV aren't always real either... of course, there are people I guess like that... i don't really know...  :Smile:  :Smile:

----------


## blewgrass

But still no answer if Man Vs Wild was CANCELLED FROM DISCOVERY.  Show me the press release, or an official word that saying the show has been cancelled.

I looked and there isn't 50 threads on man vs wild being cancelled...

----------


## spiritman

> But still no answer if Man Vs Wild was CANCELLED FROM DISCOVERY.  Show me the press release, or an official word that saying the show has been cancelled.
> 
> I looked and there isn't 50 threads on man vs wild being cancelled...


there's one that says he will have his show again but with more disclaimers. W will all be watching it again anyways.

----------


## trax

He's no match for SurvivalDude2007, SurvivalDude has American Express and Martha Stewart for backup!!

----------


## Sarge47

> But still no answer if Man Vs Wild was CANCELLED FROM DISCOVERY.  Show me the press release, or an official word that saying the show has been cancelled.
> 
> I looked and there isn't 50 threads on man vs wild being cancelled...


I contacted Discovery Channel and they told me that He would be back on, but with disclaimers, everything being explained up front, etc.  This is supposed to apply to his earlier shows as well, so maybe they're re-editing? :Confused:

----------


## wareagle69

survival dude this is the front desk with your wake up call.

----------


## trax

:Big Grin:   :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:  That was perfect!!

----------


## donny h

> A few of my teachers got outright mad when i would summarize too much. I always used as little description as possible when they wanted as much as possible.


I can appreciate that, it's like Einstein said, "make things as simple as possible, but no simpler".

Because the Bear bashing seems to have slowed, let me point out another piece of his bad advice.

In the Moab episode, he drinks water seeping from rocks, and explains this naturally filters it and it's safe to drink.

In that region of Utah some of those seeps are naturally too salty for human consumption, and others are contaminated with URANIUM :EEK!:  , both from naturally occuring and manmade sources.

My point? Just because water has filtered through soil does not mean it's safe to drink, no matter what Bear says.

Also in that episode, he swims under a log snag in a slot canyon. There is no scenario (including infotainment shows like Bears) where that act is considered anything but suicidally stupid.

----------


## blewgrass

Thanks for the clarification.  I thought it strange that it just disappeared and Les Stroud shows up.  I like survivorman anyway, but my five year old daughter is asking for Bear Gryls.  The drinking of the pee and other advice can be dangerous and kill someone lost in the bush.

----------


## Chris

> Also in that episode, he swims under a log snag in a slot canyon. There is no scenario (including infotainment shows like Bears) where that act is considered anything but suicidally stupid.


I think I remember that episode, and I remember thinking how utterly stupid that was and how irresponsible it was to put that on TV in a frame as if it were a good idea.

----------


## ATough

I cant beleive that theres no thread about this. 
what do you guys think about the new season? 
I love it. :Smile:

----------


## Sarge47

> I cant beleive that theres no thread about this. 
> what do you guys think about the new season? 
> I love it.


We HAVE been posting about it, I've watched them all and really enjoyed the last one as it utilized more equipment. :Wink:

----------


## ATough

that ones my favorite episode of all times.

----------


## Sarge47

> that ones my favorite episode of all times.


What I found interesting is that he had a gun  never fired because he couldn't locate any game.  He had a fishing kit and a hole cut through the ice, yet he couldn't catch any fish.  I thought the scene where he had to eat the old meat he'd given to the dogs was pretty gross. :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Fog_Harbor

Because of the discussions here, I've looked more critically at both shows (MvW and SM).  I like Les' show more, becuase it IS more realistic, and he takes criticism better...

----------


## ATough

hey does anyone know the two medical supplys les used to start a fire in his new episode?

----------


## Sarge47

> hey does anyone know the two medical supplys les used to start a fire in his new episode?


It's something you can't buy in America because of the "pyrotechnic capabilities".  US Govt. & Homeland Security.  He probably got it in Canada or even Africa.  I know it involved Rhino poop and durned if I can find any Rhinos  here in Ill.! :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## ATough

check ebay. :Wink:   :Big Grin:

----------


## Fog_Harbor

> It's something you can't buy in America because of the "pyrotechnic capabilities".  US Govt. & Homeland Security.  He probably got it in Canada or even Africa.  I know it involved Rhino poop and durned if I can find any Rhinos  here in Ill.!


Yeah, Stalin and Hitler both knew - unarmed citizens are MUCH easier to control.

...My shame is, I teach cops to kill...

----------


## survivalhike

In light of the whole truth coming out about Bear Grylls and what he actually did while the cameras were turned off, there is one thing that really makes me mad.  If he would have just told the truth about some of the things that he faked, or let people know that he would be trying some survival skills out that are more unorthodox, I would have given him a break.  If you are going to fake something to teach people what to do in the situation...JUST TELL ME YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT!  I think I speak for everyone when I say that it's hard to film a survival show because you don't know if a situation will come along where you can film skills other than shelter making and fire making.  If you need to dramatize something just let the people know that you are doing it for educational purposes, and we'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  
     Survivorman told his audience that he had a two way radio, walkie talkie, and tied his raft to a rescue boat in a storm during his "lost at sea" episode, and no one bit his head off! He said that the storm could possibly send him so far out to sea that he could die, and that no TV show was worth that.  No big deal, he was honest, and we understand.  
     Also, BG should stop doing things like jumping into rivers that he has no idea of the depth, jumping over gaps in rocks that are fifteen feet plus in depth, and running in whatever direction he pleases because he is going to get viewers killed.  In a survival situation the last thig you should be doing is taking big risks with your body.  If you break a leg jumping into a river, the rescue crew will find your dead body about 100 yards from the river because you couldn't crawl any further before you died of exhaustion.  
     Survivorman might be a bit mre bland of a show, but that is because he does things logically and does not take chances with his life.  I believe he is more honest than BG, and because of that he'll last longer.  BG should take a lesson and just be more honest.  Oh...and stop staying the night in a hotel that serves blueberry pancakes in your hot tub for breakfast too.

----------


## Sarge47

> In light of the whole truth coming out about Bear Grylls and what he actually did while the cameras were turned off, there is one thing that really makes me mad.  If he would have just told the truth about some of the things that he faked, or let people know that he would be trying some survival skills out that are more unorthodox, I would have given him a break.  If you are going to fake something to teach people what to do in the situation...JUST TELL ME YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT!  I think I speak for everyone when I say that it's hard to film a survival show because you don't know if a situation will come along where you can film skills other than shelter making and fire making.  If you need to dramatize something just let the people know that you are doing it for educational purposes, and we'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  
>      Survivorman told his audience that he had a two way radio, walkie talkie, and tied his raft to a rescue boat in a storm during his "lost at sea" episode, and no one bit his head off! He said that the storm could possibly send him so far out to sea that he could die, and that no TV show was worth that.  No big deal, he was honest, and we understand.  
>      Also, BG should stop doing things like jumping into rivers that he has no idea of the depth, jumping over gaps in rocks that are fifteen feet plus in depth, and running in whatever direction he pleases because he is going to get viewers killed.  In a survival situation the last thig you should be doing is taking big risks with your body.  If you break a leg jumping into a river, the rescue crew will find your dead body about 100 yards from the river because you couldn't crawl any further before you died of exhaustion.  
>      Survivorman might be a bit mre bland of a show, but that is because he does things logically and does not take chances with his life.  I believe he is more honest than BG, and because of that he'll last longer.  BG should take a lesson and just be more honest.  Oh...and stop staying the night in a hotel that serves blueberry pancakes in your hot tub for breakfast too.


I really believe, after your post here, that could do alright on your upcoming trek.  Way to go SH! :Cool:

----------


## survivalhike

If you go to google and type in "Man Vs Wild scandal" you will get a thousand hits about the things that people have come forward and said he has done to spice up the action and fake things.  It's more of an entertaining show than anything else.  For real survival skills watch Survivorman Les Stroud...Much better, and more honest.

----------


## survivalhike

Thank you very much Sarge, I really appreciate it.  I've been sick for two days now and being bored and surfing the internet has landed me on this forum.  I couldn't be happier to have found this page and I have learned much in the last couple of days.  I am really enjoying this forum, and thanks again.

----------


## Sarge47

> Thank you very much Sarge, I really appreciate it.  I've been sick for two days now and being bored and surfing the internet has landed me on this forum.  I couldn't be happier to have found this page and I have learned much in the last couple of days.  I am really enjoying this forum, and thanks again.


No problem, check out the advice I gave on your introctuctory thread about Cody Lundin. :Wink:

----------


## wareagle69

there are at last count seven survival schools in az the two most famous being cody"s and BOSS yes i know it is the boulder outdoor survival school but they are based out of az even flagstaff i do believe my favoritve school is ancient pathways up on flagstaff about 3 hrs or so from gilbert all depending on the trafic going up the 17 hey have they finished the 101 and the 202 loops yet when i lefi in 2001 i lived of the 101 in glendale that side was finished. r u a country fan? i used to ride bulls down at mr luckeys off of indian scholl rd but my bro says they closed it down finally any how best of luck to ya.

----------


## survivalhike

I think the new season is great.  I like that he is using more stuff now than he has been in the past from his kit.  I wouldn't even mind seeing him use a regular survival kit that he personally made (more comprehensive than the Labrador one) and show us how he can live out of a paint can full of goodies.   Everything from shelter, to fire, to water, to food.

Also, though he never seems to be able to catch any food for himself I think that is a more realistic protrayal of survival than not.  It's like professional fishing tournaments where 18 hours of footage is edited down to only contain the 3 quick minutes where they actually caught a fish.

Survival sounds boaring.

----------


## Fog_Harbor

> I think the new season is great.  I like that he is using more stuff now than he has been in the past from his kit.  I wouldn't even mind seeing him use a regular survival kit that he personally made (more comprehensive than the Labrador one) and show us how he can live out of a paint can full of goodies.   Everything from shelter, to fire, to water, to food.
> 
> Also, though he never seems to be able to catch any food for himself I think that is a more realistic protrayal of survival than not.  It's like professional fishing tournaments where 18 hours of footage is edited down to only contain the 3 quick minutes where they actually caught a fish.
> 
> Survival sounds boaring.


Yeah, plus he spends about 60% of his time filming, so that lessens the chances of getting food.

I've never found survival boring.  If you're doing what you should be, there's no time to be bored.

----------


## survivalhike

Good point.

----------


## BillHay

Plus the guy is always going somewhere, so setting up a good set of traps and snares is  out of the question... would be nice to see one of these survival shows show what the average lost/stranded person SHOULD do, that could be a good show!

----------


## BillHay

> If you go to google and type in "Man Vs Wild scandal" you will get a thousand hits about the things that people have come forward and said he has done to spice up the action and fake things.  It's more of an entertaining show than anything else.  For real survival skills watch Survivorman Les Stroud...Much better, and more honest.


If you go out in the woods and **** around in real life and in real time.... you might not need to watch these rediculous shows. Just sayin...

----------


## survivalhike

"A lying douche"  That's classic...I Love it!

----------


## survivalhike

> If you go out in the woods and **** around in real life and in real time.... you might not need to watch these rediculous shows. Just sayin...


I am planning on going out in real life and doing some trips (which I have been doing for a while now).  I just need to find some form of entertainment to keep me busy between trips thats all.

----------


## Nomad

OK I know who Les Stroud is, I'v watched his show 5 or 6 times. Not really impressed. What i've seen from him is basic boy scout stuff. I've heard of this gryllis or whatever his name is, but haven't seen him since I haven't watched tv in about a year. What is he like??

----------


## Sarge47

> OK I know who Les Stroud is, I'v watched his show 5 or 6 times. Not really impressed. What i've seen from him is basic boy scout stuff. I've heard of this gryllis or whatever his name is, but haven't seen him since I haven't watched tv in about a year. What is he like??


Just check out all the threads already started on Bear and you'll soon get the picture. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## weasel473

Les Stroud is the man.  Despite what some people might say, Bear is a fake.  If you don't believe me, than go tubing for videos.  Yeah, some of the stuff Stroud does is a little elementary, but some of the other stuff he's done is cool.  Just watch some of his new shows.

----------


## survivalhike

Stroud is boaring because it's real.  Bear is entertaining because it's entertainment.  That is what makes Les better than Bear.  Reality + Truth

----------


## wareagle69

honestly these shows are not really intended for ppl like us, other than some entertainment value. these shows are designed other than for ratings(sponsors ideas) les' ideas of teaching the common folk that they could survive with the basic necessity of life. if we here in this forum find the shows elementary then good, we have the knowledge to survive. I was going to type the skills to survive but that would lead to a whole other discussion.

        always be prepared.

----------


## Dark786

I totaly second that, that had to be one of the most true statements said in this les and bear mess.

----------


## Nomad

thanks guys!!!

----------


## misslexi8

ya kkay well man vs wild is SO much better then Survivor man cuz man vs wild doesnt carry guns with him and he didnt get a jeep when he went to tha desert! i mean come on! You people are retarded if you think he has everything when he goes out!

----------


## Sarge47

> ya kkay well man vs wild is SO much better then Survivor man cuz man vs wild doesnt carry guns with him and he didnt get a jeep when he went to tha desert! i mean come on! You people are retarded if you think he has everything when he goes out!


Bear goes to a motel and has his crew take care of him.  C,mon, you got the wrong forum, you need to join "The Bare Wilderness Numptys", you sound just like 'em.  Go to www.barewilderness.com and join them, leave us "Retarded people" alone. :Mad:

----------


## owl_girl

> ya kkay well man vs wild is SO much better then Survivor man cuz man vs wild doesnt carry guns with him and he didnt get a jeep when he went to tha desert! i mean come on! You people are retarded if you think he has everything when he goes out!


Did you sign up just to post that or are you interested in the rest of the topics on the forum?

----------


## FVR

Thread still alive, hmmm.

----------


## Xplosive22

I like both shows. I'm sure I've said that before but since the topic is still hot a month later...  :Smile:  

Man vs Wild is coming back for a second season. I wish I knew when it starts. If you read Bear Grylls' personal web page it has a good bit of information about whats going on. That is where I learned about the new and improved disclaimers.

There is also a sort of blog thing and several people that are personal to him vouch that a lot of what he does isn't garbage. If you have read his book accounting his trip and climb of Everest you may find those peoples' opinions to be credible. I read it, and I believe what they say.

I've seen some of the unusual stuff that is staged on his show or the life vest scene in the river but you have to admit that Bear Grylls is a good-hearted guy. Not all of his advice is bollocks and he does a lot for charity and fundraising.

I also like Survivor Man. No one should take this post as argumentative.  :Big Grin:

----------


## rt36crazyfists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpSlpvb1is

 i heard that he admitted to staying in a hotel during one of his episodes.   Les stroud is the real deal.

----------


## Sarge47

> I like both shows. I'm sure I've said that before but since the topic is still hot a month later...  
> 
> Man vs Wild is coming back for a second season. I wish I knew when it starts. If you read Bear Grylls' personal web page it has a good bit of information about whats going on. That is where I learned about the new and improved disclaimers.
> 
> There is also a sort of blog thing and several people that are personal to him vouch that a lot of what he does isn't garbage. If you have read his book accounting his trip and climb of Everest you may find those peoples' opinions to be credible. I read it, and I believe what they say.
> 
> I've seen some of the unusual stuff that is staged on his show or the life vest scene in the river but you have to admit that Bear Grylls is a good-hearted guy. Not all of his advice is bollocks and he does a lot for charity and fundraising.
> 
> I also like Survivor Man. No one should take this post as argumentative.


You can see all of Bear's Season 1 & 2 episodes starting 9/24/07.  I don't have any info yet on new episodes. :Confused:

----------


## Sarge47

Okay kiddies, time to grow up.  I think most of us here realize that it's not about who's the best in a  "My survivaldude can beat up your survivaldude" type thing.  Discovery Network hypes both guys and we're going to keep on watching both because we all got a "Survival Jones."  Let's face it, we're "Survival junkies".  we'll watch any "bug eating", "urine drinking", Lone Survialdude that makes it to the Tube and yell for more!  That being said, if Bear wants to come back he's going to have to eat some crow, along with a serving of humble pie for desert.  His hype was "over the top" to say the least.  I just watched the latest, and probably the last, season #2 episode of Survivalman:  The "behind the scenes" episode showing the how & the why of what it took to make the show.  It brings it down to "keeping it real" and Les Stroud is to be commended.  He explains how he had to scout each location, use the indigenous survival experts/consultants in each area, and why.  I truly enjoyed this show and believe that when Bear returns, and I believe that he will, he's going to have to do the same thing.  This should prove very interesting.  My problems with Bear were several.  Bad advice like drinking urine straight from the bladder is the 1st that comes to mind.  Selling a $700 knife was simply "unbecoming" to say the least.  But the reality is this:  Never put your favorite actors up on a pedestel, they'll always let you down.  Forget the hype and enjoy the shows for what they are.  A way to live vicariously through their exploits out in the field when we're stuck on the couch watching the tube. :Wink:

----------


## BillHay

> I like both shows. I'm sure I've said that before but since the topic is still hot a month later...  
> 
> Man vs Wild is coming back for a second season. I wish I knew when it starts. If you read Bear Grylls' personal web page it has a good bit of information about whats going on. That is where I learned about the new and improved disclaimers.
> 
> There is also a sort of blog thing and several people that are personal to him vouch that a lot of what he does isn't garbage. If you have read his book accounting his trip and climb of Everest you may find those peoples' opinions to be credible. I read it, and I believe what they say.
> 
> I've seen some of the unusual stuff that is staged on his show or the life vest scene in the river but you have to admit that Bear Grylls is a good-hearted guy. Not all of his advice is bollocks and he does a lot for charity and fundraising.
> 
> I also like Survivor Man. No one should take this post as argumentative.


If you post up supporting this guy, be prepared for argument. His advice is unsound and dangerous and some of it is outright bull****! That Is a Fact. Not all of what he says is unsound and dangerous, but some of his advice is REALLY unsound and dangerous. Do your homework, Man vs. Wild is for " entertainment puposes only" ! Just cause its on TV doesnt mean its true! New and improved disclaimers? To "show " someone how to get through it? By suggesting its a viable option to float "about twelve miles" down a Sierra Neveda river?then hop on out at dusk, make a small stick fire and give the impression of being well rested? let alone how did he avoid hypothermia, not to mention getting the clothing dry?? Jeeze, sorry to rant, the show is fake, check the details....

----------


## WildGoth

bear has done a supposed how its made episode as well i show it it was rubbish no diffence from the episode unlike les's which are quite differnt

----------


## Fog_Harbor

Personally, I think we've about beat this subject to death.  Let it lie already...

----------


## Jleone87

> Okay kiddies, time to grow up.  I think most of us here realize that it's not about who's the best in a  "My survivaldude can beat up your survivaldude" type thing.  Discovery Network hypes both guys and we're going to keep on watching both because we all got a "Survival Jones."  Let's face it, we're "Survival junkies".  we'll watch any "bug eating", "urine drinking", Lone Survialdude that makes it to the Tube and yell for more!  That being said, if Bear wants to come back he's going to have to eat some crow, along with a serving of humble pie for desert.  His hype was "over the top" to say the least.  I just watched the latest, and probably the last, season #2 episode of Survivalman:  The "behind the scenes" episode showing the how & the why of what it took to make the show.  It brings it down to "keeping it real" and Les Stroud is to be commended.  He explains how he had to scout each location, use the indigenous survival experts/consultants in each area, and why.  I truly enjoyed this show and believe that when Bear returns, and I believe that he will, he's going to have to do the same thing.  This should prove very interesting.  My problems with Bear were several.  Bad advice like drinking urine straight from the bladder is the 1st that comes to mind.  Selling a $700 knife was simply "unbecoming" to say the least.  But the reality is this:  Never put your favorite actors up on a pedestel, they'll always let you down.  Forget the hype and enjoy the shows for what they are.  A way to live vicariously through their exploits out in the field when we're stuck on the couch watching the tube.




I totally agree with you on where you say to take the shows as they are...they're just entertainment and just happen to be about survival. But in reality if I was to get lost in the woods, the last thing on my mind would be, ok now what was that thing survivorman said in episode #3?

p.s. just for the record, I too respect Les Stroud's "behind-the-scenes" episode. It shows that he is just a real person doing something he loves to do, unlike Baer Grills who wants to look like superman.

----------


## blewgrass

The you tube stuff is pretty impressive, hence the new disclaimers on the show.  Bear has been put in check by the more savvy members of his audience.  They whip through the disclaimer so quick that you can barely read the part that says in so many words "THE SHOW IS STAGED". 

It's Bear and his producers own fault for any loss of respect by trying to pass his show of as real.

----------


## tom61089

i have to say survivorman is far better as a whole.. man vs. wild is entertaining but its all staged...they have an article about how a couple of the nights he was supposed to be staying in the wild he was actually in a motel...heres the link

http://www.reuters.com/article/telev...39321520070724

even if this wasnt the case les doesnt use a camera crew which not only means the obvious which is he has no one to help him if he gets hurt, it means that he has no one to communicate with and is alone...when surviving in the wild loneliness and boredam lead and to depression and then your really screwed...les may whine all the time but thats because hes actually surviving for a week not acting like hes surviving like bear..

oh and bear is always running around at full speed...if you really were surviving on the bare minimum u wud want to be conserving energy that rite there is enough to make me want to turn man vs. wild off

----------


## the edge

wow here i am 65 replies later and 2900 views later thanks for posting guys and gals

----------


## the edge

recorded all the epsodes for them ^^

----------


## saiga7

i still like his show. seems to be more about trying to get to civilization fast (2-3 days) while being chased by Ninjas vs. Survivorman's show of waiting it out for 7 days and being rescued.

Bear takes more risks probably because he's got a crew with full equipment to watch his back.  still dangerous though. he would jump into quicksand to show us how to get out of it while Les would walk around it.  

just like drinking water from elephant crap. not because he needs to, but just to show that it's doable...and the camera crew's going to give him some antibiotics right after.  i guess if you're nearing death due to dehydration (thus not able to walk another 50 feet in the scorching sun), germs & bacteria wouldn't be your biggest worries at that moment. 

both shows have their merits. Survivorman is more realistic for the average guy who's not looking to break his neck alone in the wood.  but maybe at some point, should rescue never arrive....you may have to climb that 80ft tree to get your bearings like Bear does and find your own way out.

the pre-built raft was a big and only, letdown for me though. i remember Les building a raft in the swamps and it fell apart immediately.  but Bear's was almost perfect. 

this one in Hawaiian volcanoes was not a big deal to me because having lived in Hawaii, there's not that many places that's not a tourist money making spot.

http://ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/32385

----------


## pilgrim

Bear does alot of amazing things and shows how to get out of extreme situations, (falling into a frozen lake in the alps) but how do we know hes not eating ham sandwiches with the crew when the cameras stop rolling.  The bottom line is Les does it on his own and thats really surviving!

----------


## MCBushbaby

I like both, thought Survivorman has been overly deceptive since it's beginning.  I figure a survivor show's success lies in if I can actually learn something from it.  From Les I realized how to boil water in a plastic bottle, from Bear I learned about a fire bed and rapid descent techniques.

However I have a beef with Man vs. Wild being filmed only a few hundred meters from a highway or tourist resort, etc.  You can see all the "Bear is a fake" stuff on YouTube.com

Kind of makes me mad that they couldn't just say "The locations and situations filmed are not always as real as they appear to be" at the beginning of each episode.

----------


## wolf

If you want to know the truth about the "born survivor" or Edward Grylls click here http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/bearwiki/Evidence

----------


## mbarnatl

The shows are for entertainment. I tell my daughters when we watch the shows... what  is the wrong and what is right. I ask them to figure out what they would do... by using common sense. By discussing the show with them they are learning on making their own decisions when it comes a survival situation.

----------


## saiga7

> If you want to know the truth about the "born survivor" or Edward Grylls click here http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/bearwiki/Evidence


i don't see the big deal. drinking water from elephant poo was never a necessity neither because the camera crew probably had a ton of water with them should he need it.  

giving advice on what to do when you encounter a guy in a bear suit is about the same as him jumping into quicksand on purpose.   just an illustration on TV on how to handle the situation.  Bear's setting of survival is about 2-3 days only. it could be forever before running into a real bear...should he waits for one.....what if the bear attacks?  the crew would have shot the poor thing. 

Bear teaches many risky techniques that most novices shouldn't attempt, but what if you're stuck in that situation? consider the Korean guy who got stranded in the snow drift of Oregon with his wife and child.  after 6 days of staying in their car and surviving....after they exhausted all of their resources, he had to do what he had to do.  he trekked out for help and died. 

both shows has their merits and i like them both.

----------


## FVR

Both shows are getting pretty freak'n old.

But that's just my opinion.

----------


## carcajou garou

Showing dangerous, risky techniques is never good even for entertainment purposes, novices can't see the difference and will take it as gospel when such  ideas are presented; that's what a novice does, seeks out knowledge but they aren't knowledgable enough to sift the gems from the S**t. They may miss the rapidly displayed disclaimer and think all is OK.
Bear is a dangerous behaviour model and sooner or later someone will get hurt or even die trying to emulate his "panache".
Les is less so but he should be showing proper techniques rather than proving his toughness (I am really no longer impressed)
I have come accross some misguided people in the bush, who had just such rotten info, that they were on the verge of collapse because idiots those 2; had to be evaced out of there.
There some very intelligent people here with lots of sound experience and knowledge, maybe we should listen to them :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Yah what FVR said

----------


## Sarge47

> Showing dangerous, risky techniques is never good even for entertainment purposes, novices can't see the difference and will take it as gospel when such  ideas are presented; that's what a novice does, seeks out knowledge but they aren't knowledgable enough to sift the gems from the S**t. They may miss the rapidly displayed disclaimer and think all is OK.
> Bear is a dangerous behaviour model and sooner or later someone will get hurt or even die trying to emulate his "panache".
> Les is less so but he should be showing proper techniques rather than proving his toughness (I am really no longer impressed)
> I have come accross some misguided people in the bush, who had just such rotten info, that they were on the verge of collapse because idiots those 2; had to be evaced out of there.
> There some very intelligent people here with lots of sound experience and knowledge, maybe we should listen to them
> Yah what FVR said


I hope TBWN is tuning in, though it probably won't do any good. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## saiga7

well people who emulates risky moves on TV ...falls into the backyard WWF wrestler catergory.  not much can be done to help them other than a few trips to the emergency room.  

i learned how to get out of quicksand from Bear....doesn't mean that i'm going to jump in it for fun nor climb a tree for avocados because i saw it on TV.

----------


## danman17a

I think bear is cool and all, but Les Stroud, Survivor man does it for a better cause, he isnt trying to just show how to survive, but at the same time explain the power and beauty of nature.

----------


## Sarge47

Let's see. Bear BAAAD!  Les GOOOD!  Got it! :Big Grin:

----------


## wareagle69

i am surprised that grylli vannilli is still on the tube but one show that no one ever talks about is ray mears he is the best and most realistic wish he would come out with more shows, but i guess that unless you live this lifestyle ppl would find him boring..

----------


## Sarge47

> i am surprised that grylli vannilli is still on the tube but one show that no one ever talks about is ray mears he is the best and most realistic wish he would come out with more shows, but i guess that unless you live this lifestyle ppl would find him boring..


Ray Mears isn't shown down this-a-way that I know of...bummer! :EEK!:

----------


## wareagle69

you should look up his bush craft series also ultimate survival.

----------


## Sarge47

> you should look up his bush craft series also ultimate survival.


Where would I find that WE? :Confused:

----------


## mbarnatl

Ray Mears video on youtube His actual website is: http://www.raymears.com/

----------


## owl_girl

Ray Mears World of Survival was the show I use to watch back in year 2000 I think. I want to get some of his dvds when I get the money. He sells them on his my space. http://www.myspace.com/raymears

----------


## saiga7

well since the Kalahari thread got locked for no logical reason other than the moderator's a big fan of Les....the question still remains...if this were a real survival situation and no rescuers came....someone taking Les' advice of staying situated would have also ran out of water and energy to go out and search for water or civilization......and perhaps die.

while Bear's approach would be to go look for a way out while having water and full strength.

----------


## trax

> well since the Kalahari thread got locked for no logical reason other than the moderator's a big fan of Les....the question still remains...if this were a real survival situation and no rescuers came....someone taking Les' advice of staying situated would have also ran out of water and energy to go out and search for water or civilization......and perhaps die.
> 
> while Bear's approach would be to go look for a way out while having water and full strength.


Man, that's just sad. How long do you think you have "water and full strength" wandering around in the Kalahari desert? The moderator, I believe, suggested that your argument be moved to this thread to begin with, I see it hasn't discouraged the argument any having to move this far, you must have brought water and full strength to get here. I think the truth is that in either situation, if no rescuers came, you'd die-- whatever either Les or Bear tell us notwithstanding. You'll just die faster walking around.

Personally, I'm just feeling better and better about not watching either show. I don't have a currant bush to plug my tv into when I'm outdoors.

----------


## owl_girl

I agree with trax. Also cars are easier to spot so you would probably be more likely to be found if you stayed with it.

----------


## hello15944

i agree with you owl girl

----------


## trax

Hello hello agrees with owl_girl, owl_girl agrees with me! Shazam! and I agree with FVR, so he's the smart one, both shows are gettin' pretty freakin' old. BTW, I loved what WarEagle said "grylli vanilli", I thought it was brilli-ant. :Smile:

----------


## BillHay

> i don't see the big deal. drinking water from elephant poo was never a necessity neither because the camera crew probably had a ton of water with them should he need it.  
> 
> giving advice on what to do when you encounter a guy in a bear suit is about the same as him jumping into quicksand on purpose.   just an illustration on TV on how to handle the situation.  Bear's setting of survival is about 2-3 days only. it could be forever before running into a real bear...should he waits for one.....what if the bear attacks?  the crew would have shot the poor thing. 
> 
> Bear teaches many risky techniques that most novices shouldn't attempt, but what if you're stuck in that situation? consider the Korean guy who got stranded in the snow drift of Oregon with his wife and child.  after 6 days of staying in their car and surviving....after they exhausted all of their resources, he had to do what he had to do.  he trekked out for help and died. 
> 
> both shows has their merits and i like them both.


This qoute concerns me, especially the part about both shows having merit , then the part about the Korean guy dying. These shows and people dying is what concerns me. TV makes life look too easy. It is sad , The Koean guy had a name. The Korean guy had a family and people are hurting cause hes gone, The Korean guy is a hero for trying, in my mind any way. These shows glamorize a "scenario" that is bull**** , or the scenario is far fetched and has happened to NO one. Why cant they see this? We all need to brainstorm. Get a plan, then write a script, a realistic script, then present it to the networks.

----------


## Sarge47

> This qoute concerns me, especially the part about both shows having merit , then the part about the Korean guy dying. These shows and people dying is what concerns me. TV makes life look too easy. It is sad , The Koean guy had a name. The Korean guy had a family and people are hurting cause hes gone, The Korean guy is a hero for trying, in my mind any way. These shows glamorize a "scenario" that is bull**** , or the scenario is far fetched and has happened to NO one. Why cant they see this? We all need to brainstorm. Get a plan, then write a script, a realistic script, then present it to the networks.


The networks main concern is their ratings and subsequent profits.  could those here that are qualified to write such a program sell it to some "chair-bound fat-cat" who's concept of "Survival" is that it's a reality show.

----------


## warrigal

Ok here is my problem with Bear. I first came across the show a couple months ago when it was brought to my atttention by some Army Cadets( 15 to 18yr olds) I was running a survival course for over about nine weeks. The problem is some of the information is reasonable, viable and good and some of it is just downright dangerous. But I know more about survival in arid and jungle areas than I do about mountains and frozen wastes. Only because thoses are the areas I have lived in and played in.
But If you don't have enough info on a certain area you might think that piece of infomation is something I have heard before so it must be OK so the next bit info I haven't heard before must be OK as well.
I was livid that now that I had lit the fire in these kid about being aware in the bush and this idiot is filling their heads with crap that might kill them.
Having said that I wonder how much of this is Bears doing and how much of it is the show producers saying "No,No lets do it this way it'll make better television."
You don't get to climb Everest or be excepted to the Special Air Service, (Even if it is the national guard version) if you are a complete idiot.
Carl

----------


## explodingearth

> I have only seen Man vs Wild one time and almost threw my Bud Light at the television and some of the crap he was doing. I believe he was in the Copper Canyon region of Mexico and just doing some stupid s$%t in my opinion.He was climbing down a sheer cliff and then jumping over a gulch to get down when it was obvious that an easier and SAFER route was visible from the top of the ridge he was on. Then he was jumping off of waterfalls into a river with no way of knowing what lay beneath the water. If you are in a survival situation these are things you should never take a chance on,unless someone's chasing you with an AK 47! I like Survivorman much better as it is more realistic and Les rarely takes stupid chances like whats his face does. Just my opinion.


______lol!______

----------


## explodingearth

i dont see the point in killing animals for a TV show. he could just as easily and effectively caught the animals, shows us how would COULD kill and cook it... and cook up a batch of rice in the animals place. why kill something if you dont have to?

----------


## sticks65

im fed up now im never going to watch either show again or read these threads again enough is enough.

----------


## FVR

I can't stand fraud.  That is what he is.  If you are going to portray trapping, killing, skinning, and preparing a critter to eat, then by god do it.  

I went to school today in my buckskins, my wife met me in school and asked "hun, you're wearing a breech cloth, no underwear?"  I said "sweety, if I'm going to portray a Native American, I'm going to do it right, no BS."  

Hey, the teachers did not mind.  Kind of got around the school, real fast.

----------


## Beo

Yeah from your pic I see ya look alot like a Native American... lol... just kidding.  :Big Grin:  So the kids loved it didn't they, most do when I wear my long hunter clothes.

----------


## FVR

I shaved smartarse, also slicked back the hair.

Yeh, they loved it.  They got to play in the onepole, he ll, they called it a tepee, that's all that matters.

Honestly, I'm not fond of buckskins.  Yeh, leather mocs and leggins up to my knees, but the rest I prefer either wool or muslin.

----------


## Sarge47

I can't believe that this thread is still going!  OK guys, in less that an hour Bear's new show is starting on Discovery.  I'd heard they were breaking it up to two hours.  Maybe Holiday Inn gave him a break on the room rates, huh? See ya in a few. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## FVR

2 hours of constant BS.  Naaa, I'll just surf the net.  I'll let Bear wallow in his own self rightousness and gross eating habits.  

Face it, Bear's reputation is questionable, no matter what he does, where he goes, there will always be those that look at him as a fraud.  And rightly so.  

You can take away my money, my possessions, my family, everything, I could be standing there completely nekked and I will always have two things;  the fact that I am a Marine, and have a good reputation.

----------


## Nativedude

Man -v- Wild. . .how phony! I just saw the show for the first time the other night. That guy isn't teaching survival, he's teaching "how to be an idiot 101!"

There are probably 1000's, 10 of 1000's or even 100's of 1000's of people watching that show that are going to go out and try his stupid stunts (just like the show jackass) and get seriously ill, injured, maimed, or killed, and it will be because they take what this guy is spouting as the truth about survival.

I see it with people that I have taken out. They read a book or two and now they are survival experts. Never having applied what they have read in practical terms, but they know best!!

On Survivorman, Les shows the fact that surviving in the types of terrain he shows can be risky, or even dangerous, especially if you are not properly trained, or don't know the terrain. When he was in the desert, he plainly stated that: _"this is not at all what I pictured the desert to be like". . ."I pictured it to be flat and sandy."_

Most people think that wilderness survival is so romantic. That doing, what people like, Les Stroud, Ray Mears, Mors Kochanski, Cody Lundin, just to name a few, do is so exciting.

When I first decided to live, primitive and wild, I was truly scared. I had been out on thousand of primitive living trips (a.k.a. survival), I call it primitive living, because I went out of my own accord and I was practicing "survival" techniques, i.e.; fire starting, shelter building, trapping and snaring, etc. But living that way day-to-day, everyday, could I do it. Would I be able to find and grow enough food, have enough water? What about hygiene, medical emergencies, injuries, etc.? But I found after a couple of months, is that it really was no different than living in the "modern" world. Mother Nature is my TV, my daily education. But now I digress.

My point is that there are thousands of people each year that die in the remote back country areas of this country, and now there is this guy, "Bear Grylls," that propagates the "romance" of the wilds and is showing some very dangerous things on his show!!

This is my humble opinion from spending countless hours in the wood and wilds of this country and others, and I'm sure I will get many tongue lashing for my response to this thread.  :Confused:

----------


## FVR

Well, with a statement like this


> This is my humble opinion from spending countless hours in the wood and wilds of this country and others and I'm sure I will get many tongue lashing for my response to this thread.


I FVR, 150% agree with you.  The guys an idiot and will get people injured.  If he had been in my team, he'd have been booted at the first chance.

----------


## Rick

Man. You guys are so lame. I have my tickets for the Kalahari already. I"m taking three spokes from my bicycle, the webbing from an old lawn chair and a rusty key. I AM READY! Next you'll be telling me wrestling is fake.

----------


## Bladesypher

Meh... I think its all staged, Ray Mears is the real survivalist!  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## carcajou garou

Ray Mears is a great teacher along with many others..Ron Hood, Tom Brown, Mors Kochanski, Cody Lundin etc.....

----------


## Rick

Oh, well sputter, cough, cough. I sat down to dinner tonight and there is the Baer in the Australian Outback. Wearing his underwear on his head, drinking his own urine and building a shelter in the middle of an arroyo in a rain storm. 

As far as I could tell, no scrotum purse, though.

----------


## mbarnatl

I gave up on watching the shows this season. Went back to reading books.

----------


## Sarge47

> Oh, well sputter, cough, cough. I sat down to dinner tonight and there is the Baer in the Australian Outback. Wearing his underwear on his head, drinking his own urine and building a shelter in the middle of an arroyo in a rain storm. 
> 
> As far as I could tell, no scrotum purse, though.


I'll bet that guy's a real hoot at parties! :Big Grin:

----------


## Beo

Bear does get help as in one episode he said: "the crew found this snake and wanted me to show you how to handle a cobra, so they brought it to this location" that would mean he did not find the snake, and on another show he said: "the crew gave me this" but at least he does say he didn't do this or that, and "they" meaning the crew found this or that. in the end its for the entertainment value, such as squeezing the water outta elephant dung to drink... okay 1st that is just nasty as he*l and I will not do that, to many criters in elephant poop to drink that would pretty much make you sick at the least. I guess if you were lost for days with no water someone might try that but it ain't gonna be me  :Big Grin:  Next show he's lost in the city and eats the peanuts outta sh*t left by the wild wino  :Big Grin:

----------


## Canadian-guerilla

> Bear really does go through the scenerios by himself.


the very fact that a camera crew is there, squews the " survival " aspect

IMHO
one of the main aspects of solo survival 
is the fact that *YOU KNOW* you're on your own

one of the best examples i can think of is Aron Ralston
the stranded hiker who amputated his arm to survive
i wish i had taped the show
when he went back to the spot with a reporter/camera crew

during the whole Man vs Wild show
Bear *KNOWS* that he has someone to talk to
and if he needs a helping hand with something
*he has someone there* that can help him, ( off-camera of course )

i'll watch Les Stroud every chance i get
the only contact he has with the outside world is a satellite radio
he is on his own for 5-7 days
and knows that help is not 25 feet away holding a camera

----------


## MCBushbaby

I'm still skeptical...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpSlpvb1is (100yards from a highway)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acYExF4RRqE (lifejacket hidden under sweatshirt)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0qyKyWaNEQ (many explanations)

I mean, you can broadcast all this stuff but be damn sure to say "these aren't wild horses, they were brought in" or "drifting down a white water river is dangerous so I'm going to use a life vest".  Don't EVER recommend something dangerous and portray fake instances of you 'doing' it or you'll kill someone indirectly.

"careful when crossing lava bridges"  NEVER CROSS LAVA BRIDGES
"I'm going to attempt to ride these wild horses"  IN REALITY YOU"LL BE KICKED IN THE NECK AND DIE
"I'm going to drift down this white water river" I'D RATHER SPEND 2 HOURS WALKING THE SHORE, STAYING SAFE AND DRY

----------


## Rick

This is from Discovery Channel's Man vs. Wild web site: 
"Bear Grylls and the crew receive support when they are in potentially life threatening situations, as required by health and safety regulations.

On some occasions, situations are presented to Bear so he can demonstrate survival techniques.

Professional advice should always be sought before entering any dangerous environment."

Bear's Blog shows the crew filming one of the scenes:

http://beargrylls.blogspot.com/

I actually sent him an email about the "drinking urine" and "squeezing the water out of dung" thingies. Let's see if he responds.

----------


## Borelli

We are all survivalists right.

Why are we on this website?
What is the main purpose of this website?

These questions apply to the shows....THE PROGRAM SHOULD BE USED FOR EDUCATIONAL VALUE!!!

the program isn't about showing whos better at what....it is intended as the same way this website is.... TO SHARE KNOWLEDGE!!!

----------


## Rick

I guess the main concern is we have some newbies on the forum and the shows portray some dubious things that those just learning may interpret as okay to perform. This thread outlines a number of things that have been done on some of the shows that none (or few) of us would ever attempt in the wild. The TV shows are entertainment value and, while they do offer some good information, they also show and suggest things that could get one in serious trouble. The sharing of knowledge is to remind some of the younger and/or less experienced members that TV is TV and they operate according to ratings and how much advertising dollars they can attract. They should take what they see as entertainment and augment it and balance it with as much other survival information as possible whether it be from this forum or other sources rather than to rely entirely on the shows as their source of info. IMHO....

----------


## Borelli

Well i geuss that is true.

I mean i would never eat zebra raw, i wouldn't squeeze any kind of waste product to get water, i wouldn't eat a lot of the things he tries(camel fat)
A lot of the material on the show is good though....such as his numerous attempts to get out of quicksand.

Dom Borelli

----------


## Rick

That last one I would try. Trust me. If I were in quicksand, numerous attempts would be tried until one was successful. The rest of that stuff? Uh, no.

----------


## Borelli

That is what i mean he shows the public a good skill every chance he gets, I got stuck in quicksand before but it was only up to the center of my thighs. it was a bit scary but it had a tremendous sulfuric smell and had a very powerful suction.

----------


## Canadian-guerilla

but what the viewing public is maybe getting 
mislead about is the reality of survival
as i stated in an earlier post
BEAR KNOWS that someone is only 25 feet away
and thus may take extra chances

with all these things that Bear " consumes "
who knows how many times he's been sick the next day
he is passing off his show as real-life survival situations
in reality, he is really never in any danger
and the public never sees how many times
he attempts something risky " to get a good take "

----------


## Sarge47

I've recorded and watched every episode of M. vs. W..  Alls I can say is to survive like Mr. Grylls does is going to require a better physical condition than I have.  I perceive this as a "Sur-reality" show! :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## FVR

I don't even watch him anymore.  What in the he ll is he going to show me that I can't find out on my own?  Honestly.

He and his show is glamorized entertainment, which I enjoyed until I found out that he is nothing but a b'ser.

I always wondered how he could spend time in certain climates, the same climates that myself and many others have spent more time in, and not have the same problems we had.  His little busted indicated why, he's a fraud.

I don't give a crap what he's done, because if he b'sd his way through his show, then how do I know he did not bs his way through other things he claims.

That's just my buck two fifty.

----------


## MCBushbaby

> I don't give a crap what he's done, because if he b'sd his way through his show, then how do I know he did not bs his way through other things he claims.


Maybe that "dung pile" was a sponge painted to look like crap.  "by crickey I'm gonna drink water from this dung heap... watch me go... mmmm, tastes like apple juice, er, i mean water... that's right, dung water, nasty brown dung water... not like apple juice that's been soaked into a sponge." lol

----------


## Rick

Since these guys use locals to help with the survival skills I sort of picture three locals playing one of the worst practical jokes of all time. Then, sitting around the television, there is this huge collective Oooooohhhhhhh when Bear actually drinks from the elephant poo. High fives around. "I can't believe he really did it." "Dude, you are sooooo bad for tellin' him to do that," sort of comments.

----------


## Borelli

great answer Mitch..... The most important part of those show is the educational value that we can use to benifit ourselve's.

----------


## Rick

(fake British accent) I've been up for 36 straight hours facing some of the most dangerous internet search engines you can possibly imagine. I was forced to drink diet colas to avoid dehydration and to consume beer nuts AND pretzels. But it was worth it to uncover the most realistic Bear Grylls show to date. I hope you appreciate the sacrifices I've made.

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2880099

----------


## owl_girl

Thats hilarious, love it  :Big Grin:

----------


## Borelli

well all i havee to sa is that if we combine what our own knowledge offers us then yes there are things that Bear does that i dont think would be all that smart but he does offer a useful skill every once in awile.  Such as the new Sahara episode...he shows that by digging down into the sandthat is in shade you find much cooler sand underneath, for many of us that is a no brainer but it still serves as a reminder

Apply your knowledge to things you know nothing about and you will learn to unnderstand an item better and faster than someone whom does not know how to apply what they know to every day situations

Dom Borelli

----------


## Nativedude

SURVIVORMAN ALL THE WAY!!   :Big Grin:   :Wink: 

Bear is a FAKE!. . .FAKE!!. . .FAKE!!!  :Frown:   :Mad:

----------


## Rick

This one is for you Nativedude: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acYExF4RRqE

This one is for everyone: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpSlpvb1is

----------


## Beo

I see at purely entertainment value, I mean come on now... squeezing brown waste water outta elephant poop I'd find other water sources like where the animals are drinking, although he makes quite a good living at it and I'll bet he has some real fun not to mention getting to travel.

----------


## Beo

I just saw the video where bear catches a rabbit in a snare and after ringing its neck he says to give it karate chop on the neck the make sure its dead! Is he serious?

----------


## Two Rivers

My dad once told me " you can learn something from anybody". I find both shows to be full of great information. Not real sure of survivormans background, but he seems to be someone who has spent some time enjoying life growing up in the woods as opposed to being trained in survival skills.
  Bear never seems to be as fatigued or hungery at the end of his show as Les, but then he has a camera man to do the filming and whos to say .... a scout out in front, and a mule skinner leading the Borax Mule Train behind him. Sometimes its like watching an episode of fear factor. Would be interesting to see a behind the scenes show from both of them. I enjoy both show. Lots of good info. Its always good to refresh the knowledge.

----------


## Sarge47

> My dad once told me " you can learn something from anybody". I find both shows to be full of great information. Not real sure of survivormans background, but he seems to be someone who has spent some time enjoying life growing up in the woods as opposed to being trained in survival skills.
>   Bear never seems to be as fatigued or hungery at the end of his show as Les, but then he has a camera man to do the filming and whos to say .... a scout out in front, and a mule skinner leading the Borax Mule Train behind him. Sometimes its like watching an episode of fear factor. Would be interesting to see a behind the scenes show from both of them. I enjoy both show. Lots of good info. Its always good to refresh the knowledge.


Les DID do a "behind the scenes" show, and it was great! :Cool:

----------


## Beo

I'll take Less and Survivorman, not only is he on his own after being dropped off, he has to do all the filming, and sometimes he has to be pulled out. I use the shows for entertainment value. But Les seems more real to me, plus he's got a simple man's comic style as I think he's funny in his comments, thinks of things the way I might such as after eating one small bug lays down and says "now that was filling."
And Bear is so fake its sickening.

----------


## Rick

Okay, check this out. In the November issue.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Bear comes clean on the fake stuff. Yep, on occasion, things were staged. No apologies. No faux paw. They cram a lot of stuff into a show. Going forward, they'll make sure viewers are aware of exactly what's what so everyone can rest easily at night. More behind the scenes stuff, too. I think they are doing it just for you Two Rivers. 

Read it for yourself. Here is the link. It's a big file (8.48 Mb) in .pdf format. His confession is on the last page. 

http://www.beargrylls.com/media/bear...demagazine.pdf

By the way, his first name is Edward. Blyme, who knew?!

----------


## HERBz

I have to say ray mears is my fave but might only be in the UK

www.raymears.com


P.S. i've actually met him on one of his survival courses I nearly met bear grylls too.  :Smile:

----------


## HERBz

There's lots of videos of him on youtube.

----------


## Gray Wolf

> I just saw the video where bear catches a rabbit in a snare and after ringing its neck he says to give it karate chop on the neck the make sure its dead! Is he serious?


He even says he couldn't catch one with his snares, that the film crew gave it to him.

My concern is the same as Ricks: *"I guess the main concern is we have some newbies on the forum and the shows portray some dubious things that those just learning may interpret as okay to perform. This thread outlines a number of things that have been done on some of the shows that none (or few) of us would ever attempt in the wild."*

----------


## Rick

Let's venture into the bush and see if our snares caught anything last night. If we have, we'll want to be truly careful and give the human a good chop on the back of the neck if it's still alive.

----------


## MCBushbaby

Well, to be fair, survival isn't glamorous and certainly doesn't fair well in the public eye if they have to sit thru half an hour of it.

"ok, so here I piled a bunch of debris over a simple frame.  I made a small fire with this flint, and I'm eating some bugs for food.  I'm going to keep doing this for the next half hour so you can skip back to the Colbert Report."

vs.

"by crickey!  A rabbit!  KACHOP!  Boy crickey I broke his neck with my chuck norris karate action.  Now I'm jumping off an 80ft cliff into near-freezing water and float down the rapids until I find a bear!  Grabbing my trusty SAS knife I kill and skin him, making a fur coat in the process.  Blood smeared over my face, I defiantly scream into the heart of nature 'FREEEEDOM!!!!'"

----------


## nell67

> I just saw the video where bear catches a rabbit in a snare and after ringing its neck he says to give it karate chop on the neck the make sure its dead! Is he serious?


Um beo,I grew up killing tame rabbits that way,but I had a bad experience with one that I prefer NOT to share,and that was the end of that,now I let someone else stronger than me do it,but lets just say that you need to make SURE its dead before you start to skin it :EEK!:

----------


## Rick

But here's the thing. If some guy had a show called Man vs. Urban and purported to show himself spread out on the 101 in L.A. demonstrating survival techniques for dodging cars or entering the subway system in New York to show how to avoid stepping on the third rail or even squeezing and drinking water from a doughnut found in the Chicago River people would think him seriously lacking in brain cells and his show would probably be canceled because everyone understands how stupid those risks are. But it would be entertaining. :Wink:

----------


## trax

> Um beo,I grew up killing tame rabbits that way,but I had a bad experience with one that I prefer NOT to share,and that was the end of that,now I let someone else stronger than me do it,but lets just say that you need to make SURE its dead before you start to skin it


You started ripping the skin off a live rabbit? Oh Cruella! j/k, must have been awful (worse for the rabbit, but awful) I don't know how many rabbit's necks I've wrung over the years, the only time I had to use karate on one was that killer ninja rabbit from hell.....

----------


## nell67

> You started ripping the skin off a live rabbit? Oh Cruella! j/k, must have been awful (worse for the rabbit, but awful) I don't know how many rabbit's necks I've wrung over the years, the only time I had to use karate on one was that killer ninja rabbit from hell.....


Yea I did,and I dont know which one of us was screaming louder,never had that happen before,and it wont ever happen again,I dont want them to suffer.

----------


## Chris

I think now that the cat is out of the bag so to speak, Bear is getting lazier trying to fool people.

This last episode last night he walked up a glacier and slipped off (bugger!). His solution (despite the fact he had crampons with him) was to put socks over his boots. So he did that, and what do you know.. he could walk on the ice.... except he wasn't walking the same way as he did previously. To slip he walked on a steep ice slope to his right, to demonstrate the socks he walked off to his left.

Then he went down for this bit in an ice chasm, and was trying to climb out, but the video of him stuck down there and the video of him climbing out are not from the same hole. He must have went down one, had to get pulled out, and then went down a different/easier hole to demonstrate the climb out.

Then, later, he was climbing this cliff (unnecessarily I might add) only I'm sure he didn't really climb it. For about 5 minutes they showed him struggling on the rock with closeups, only they kept showing the same rock. They probably lowered him down, let him cling while they got some footage, and pulled him back up.

----------


## Sarge47

> (fake British accent) I've been up for 36 straight hours facing some of the most dangerous internet search engines you can possibly imagine. I was forced to drink diet colas to avoid dehydration and to consume beer nuts AND pretzels. But it was worth it to uncover the most realistic Bear Grylls show to date. I hope you appreciate the sacrifices I've made.
> 
> http://www.ifilm.com/video/2880099


"Hello, I'm Bare Grills, I've looked at Mt. Everest, tried to join the SAS, drank water from elephant poo, not to mention my own urine, and eaten just about any insect and/or small animal I can find.  I like long walks in the park, a girl who's a Libra...Oh crap! wrong intro..."

(voice from Off-Camera)  "Cut!  Okay Bare, try it without the "singles ad.  Take it from right after 'I can find'  And...Action!"

(BARE)  "And I'm going to teach you how to survive by going out into the wilderness with nothing more that a water bottle and me $700 knife, and a 16 man camera crew who brought along the Winnebago and the 'Honey wagon"...

(Off-Camera)  "Cut.  Yo, BG baby, that's waaaayy to much information for the audience, OK?  I mean they're stupid, I'll grant you that, but they're not complete morons, right?  OK, take it from right after $700 knife...and..action!"

(Bare) "Right!  ...and me $700 knife.  I will also show off my naked Tush to give all you girls and flaming homo's a quick thrill...."

(Off-Camera)  "OK!  Cut!  Uh, BG, you can't say that over the air.  Too offensive.  again from '$700 knife'...and...roll 'em!"

(Bare)  "Right...and me $700 knife...(slaps hand down on the empty sheath) which you can get from...wait a minute, where's me knife?  Any of you guys seen my knife?  You didn't hide it from me again did you?  (laughing from off-camera)  You did!  Where is it?  (pause) out in the woods!?  Now I'll never find it.  Oh crap!"  (Stalks out of the shot.)

(Off-Camera)  "Cut!  OK guys, that's lunch, be back in an hour."
(Off-Camera)  "So, how long do you think it'll take him to find it this time?"
(Off-Camera   "I got $20 that says he won't find if for four hours!"
(Off-Camera)  "I'll take that bet, I've got it right here in my gear bag..."
(Off-Camera)  "I still think it was great you telling him it was safe to drink his own pee!  He was hitting the Scope for the next three days!" :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## pnut

I enjoy both shows. Each gives useful information if you take it in the right context.

----------


## Beo

I know you have to snap the neck of the rabbit, BUUUUUUUUUUT you do not have to give it a chuck norris karate chop to make sure it is dead, that is just ridiculas, I have killed my share of rabbits (wild & tame) and wrung the neck, but I never gave it a karate chop to make sure it was dead... lol... sure ya gotta make sure the critter is dead but karate chopping the neck is just plain stupid. IMHO.

----------


## nell67

> I know you have to snap the neck of the rabbit, BUUUUUUUUUUT you do not have to give it a chuck norris karate chop to make sure it is dead, that is just ridiculas, I have killed my share of rabbits (wild & tame) and wrung the neck, but I never gave it a karate chop to make sure it was dead... lol... sure ya gotta make sure the critter is dead but karate chopping the neck is just plain stupid. IMHO.


I was raised using the side of my hand to kill the rabbit,but I do not do that anymore ( I am sure you read that little story elsewhere :Mad: ) so now if I have to do it myself,it involves a very sharp knife.

----------


## Beo

Really, I had no idea that you wre supposed to do that or anyone even did that, hmmm seems I learn something new everyday.

----------


## nell67

Yea I didnt say you were supposed to do it,I just am not going to go through what I did that time,I dont like doing it that way though.

----------


## Elkchsr

My GORSH!!!!

That was a lot of reading to catch up... Some times, it sucks to be new to a board...

These shows (like "Survivor") are only meant as entertainment and ratings

If people like us get some thing out of them, that is all the better, but the majority of people will never get much farther than their couch to experience a true survival scenario

If the shows were meant to be of benefit to us, the commercials would be of a different nature catering to our needs and not the general populace

I do like the fact that Les has made appearances to this thread and graced us with a little of his insight

Very cool...  :Smile:

----------


## Rick

I don't think that was Les. Was it? I think the survivorman on this forum is just one of us using that avatar and name. Sarge or someone, am I wrong here?

----------


## nell67

No you are correct Rick.

----------


## Elkchsr

Well shoot...  :Frown:

----------


## nell67

sorry Elkchsr.

----------


## MedicineWolf

Actually with all the threads we got going here on all the various topics, along with Chris' and Sarges moderating and running of the forum, and Trax, Rick, and Beo's witty banter we don't need any of those guys, there is a ton of real, good, and expert informatin right here. I for one love this site and when it gets down to it we hit every aspect with real survival answers, they work, and can be accomplished by the average person with a little practice. And this site is actually in the NFS (national forestry service) favorites on all our computers. 
2 thumbs up for this site.

----------


## Rick

Well, at least it was thumbs.

----------


## Beo

I agree MW

----------


## nell67

I was gonna say it,but I thought better of it LOL!

----------


## RBB

> I know you have to snap the neck of the rabbit, BUUUUUUUUUUT you do not have to give it a chuck norris karate chop to make sure it is dead, that is just ridiculas, I have killed my share of rabbits (wild & tame) and wrung the neck, but I never gave it a karate chop to make sure it was dead... lol... sure ya gotta make sure the critter is dead but karate chopping the neck is just plain stupid. IMHO.


Karate chop a rabbit?  Huh!  Well what next? 

I guess I just don't get out much.  I really will have to start watching these shows.

----------


## tracks

I have been hunting fishing and traping for quite some time and have stayed in the wilds for extended periods of time.I have yet to find
anything in survivor man or man vs wild that would actualy benifit
someone in a true life or death situation.dont believe me ,tell a friend
what your doing get a personal gps locator head out to the nearest
state or national park and try some of those so called survival skills
youll be home by dark with a whole new idea of what SURVIVAL SKILLS
really are.

----------


## ws3445

I can watck the first 2 seasons of man vs. wild and I can watch sivorman any time but man vs. wild is less reelistic because he only has a knife and stuff but not enough to be reelistic.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Gunforhire126

ive heard that 'bear' stays in a hotel every night

----------


## Rick

Okay, both you guys go back and read the thread. Realistic and hotel are covered....to death....

----------


## Arborius

This link says it all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j_LkdCt2P8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpSlpvb1is

----------


## arpeggio

Wow, just wow.

I randomly come upon this page, and had the misfortune to read Elkchsr's post on the previous page, without reading the posts responding to it.

VERY long story short, anxious to see what "Les" said, I read THE ENTIRE THREAD up to the last pages, where I find out he was incorrect

/wrists.


Anyhow, now that I've devoted this much time and effort to this thread, I feel it's my duty and right to register and share my $.02 with y'all.

I'm in advertising, so my survival experience doesn't go much beyond two-week long hikes way back with my father in semi-tramped areas like New Mexico and Suwannee. I'm a pup compared to some of you grizzled vets, but I've spent a lot of time reading countless books on survival, with a focus on North American edible plants, which I've always found fascinating. 
Heck, they found me qualified to instruct nature walks at the local YMCA sleepaway camp when I was younger, so I'm not a total babe-in-the-woods.

From advertising standpoints, both Survivorman and Man vs. Wild have a certain implicit agreement with the audience of what will be shown, just from the name - A man roughin' it, going one-on-one with nature.

Les doesn't always make it, but he keeps the agreement clean by sharing everything - the triumphs AND the setbacks - with the audience.
When he steals dog food, he lets you know. When the crew tows his dingy in for the night, he lets you know. Knowledge is power, and he really seems earnest in helping you learn from his success AND failures.

I have to admit, after questioning the show (skepticism) I finally watched it at the urging of a friend, and I am very impressed by the respect Les has not only for nature, but his audience. As long as he keeps to the agreement and continues to show me the truth, I'll be content to call his show the 'true' reality television.

Man vs. Wild, on the otherhand...I see him doing things that no one, in their right mind, under ANY conditions, should ever do. 
I mean EVER.
Who climbs down a waterfall? It's not just a bad idea, but it's insulting to ME.

Well, if this thread rises from the dead maybe someone will read this and go 
"I see..."

Thanks for the discussion and the interesting links, some of you people seem to have real personalities.

And personality is the #1 most imporant factor in survival  :Big Grin:

----------


## crashdive123

Welcome to the forum arpeggio.

----------


## Canadian-guerilla

> Okay, both you guys go back and read the thread. Realistic and hotel are covered....*to death*....


i can't believe this thread has over 400+ posts  :EEK!:

----------


## Tahyo

I can't say I've ever watched this show all the way through.  I've glanced at it for a few minutes while surfing only to comment to my wife that it's basically entertainment and not to be taken seriously.

The other night I was flipping around and caught it for minute only to find the guy on some tropical beach somewhere making some sort of spear gun from the elastic from his Scooby Doo underwear.
Now mind you, my wife thinks it is hilarious that she buys me Scooby Doo boxers as Scooby Doo is one of her favorite old cartoons.  When she saw the guy destroying those "Scoobies", she was about ready to write in and read someone the riot act.

"And that's all I have to say about that."

----------


## Arkansas_Ranger

> My husband and kids love to watch these shows. Do you think they have anything to actually teach people about surviving in on "have-to" basis?


Survivorman is more realistic I think, yet Man vs. Wild is better entertainment.  In practicality, I think you can learn a lot from both, however, like I said, in reality I think if you spend your time lost in the wild like Survivorman that you're more likely to survive.

----------


## Omid

Well first of all Survivorman is more ideal. Everything that Bear (Man vs Wild) does is 100% stupid.

Eating Fish raw is the worst thing you can do! And when it is alive..! Something that no one here has mentioned is that Beqar gets a huge paycheck. I wonder how much money he got for eating that camel crap, or snake, or scorpion!

Survivorman is more ideal for learning. It shows that not everything works out how you planned. Many times what you try to do does fail! Even if you never spent time out in the woods for a night, you'll know that if you just go fishing!
Survivorman's tactics are smart, interesting, and won't get you possible killed (much unlike what Bear teaches you).

What Bear does is going to get you hurt. And if you are hurt in a survival situation you could possible die!

Survivorman is helpful, and Man Vs Wild is ONLY entertainment. I wonder how many digits are in his paycheck...

----------


## Rick

Omid - Welcome to the forum. How about scooting over to the Introduction section and tells us a little about yourself. By the way, you don't actually think Les does that for free do you? I think there's a little in the way of renumeration for him, too.  :Big Grin: 

Has anyone seen Survive Alaska? It was on last night and it stars Les Stroud. Last night's episode covered the cold water dunking we talked about a couple of months ago and had the doctor on the show that gave us the info. There was also a segment about snow shelters. I didn't get to watch all of it but what I saw was pretty good. The snow shelter piece had Les and a native Alaskan (Inuit? I don't know). Anyway, he had frozen white fish and seal oil. He said it didn't create thirst like other meats. The seal oil contained the fat and the frozen white fish contained the protein that you need.

----------


## Tahyo

> **snip**
> Has anyone seen Survive Alaska? It was on last night and it stars Les Stroud. Last night's episode covered the cold water dunking we talked about a couple of months ago and had the doctor on the show that gave us the info. There was also a segment about snow shelters. I didn't get to watch all of it but what I saw was pretty good. The snow shelter piece had Les and a native Alaskan (Inuit? I don't know). Anyway, he had frozen white fish and seal oil. He said it didn't create thirst like other meats. The seal oil contained the fat and the frozen white fish contained the protein that you need.


I saw about 5 minutes or less of it.  Unless I was watching it for the scenery, I just can't get into something that I know is either phony or staged and trying to be passed off as something else.
I, personally just can't find any entertainment value in it.

The part I caught last night had a certain ethnic person(s) on there and I find them tromping around in the wild supposedly "alone" or with one or two people, as believable as me going to the south side of Chicago dressed in an Armani suit and making it out with my wallet.

----------


## Rick

It wasn't trying to pass off as something else. It was an educational show. How to's. That sort of thing. They did some staged stuff like some goofy wreck with a snow machine to show what could happen but then they went into what to look for from natural shelters and the various things you need to know to build a snow cave. It wasn't exceptional show material but it was good and solid.

----------


## Tahyo

> It wasn't trying to pass off as something else. It was an educational show. How to's. That sort of thing. They did some staged stuff like some goofy wreck with a snow machine to show what could happen but then they went into what to look for from natural shelters and the various things you need to know to build a snow cave. It wasn't exceptional show material but it was good and solid.


Didn't mean for my post to come on so strong Rick.  My wife hates when I watch t.v. with her because I find every flaw, boo-boo and unrealistic shot that's there and when it comes to any kind of reality or semi reality show, I just shake my head.

----------


## Omid

I saw survival Alaska too... There was one built by Survivorman and one build by Man vs Wild.

Ya I remember seeing Survivorman and his crash test dummies under an avalance, etc.

----------


## LeaveThisLifeGuy

my .02= Gryllis is a whimp.  Stroud has the fortitude of an elephant.

----------


## kx250kev

Stroud has earned my respect.

----------


## Rick

Who would have thought these guys would have earned over 400 posts?

----------


## wareagle69

i can't beleive this thread is still open

----------


## crashdive123

Kind of fun to read through it when you're day dreaming and taking nothing serious.

----------


## marberry

anyone know when the new season (3) of Survivorman is airing?

----------


## BIG TONE

les gets my vote for sure not as exciting but more realistic

----------


## Ameriborn

Man Vs. Wild is a better show IMO. Not as a Survival show in anyway, but _ Some _  of what he says is very helpful. The things he does I am not so sure about. This one is for entertainment, anyway. Survivorman is much more realistic and gives more tips. Though, I do find some of the stuff he does really stupid. (Not stupid like Bear, just stupid - like when he wastes his only food as bait)

----------


## Rick

Bear Gryllis? Entertaining? Stop it! You're killing me. 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## crashdive123

> Man Vs. Wild is a better show IMO. Not as a Survival show in anyway, but _ Some _  of what he says is very helpful. The things he does I am not so sure about. This one is for entertainment, anyway. Survivorman is much more realistic and gives more tips. Though, I do find some of the stuff he does really stupid. (Not stupid like Bear, just stupid - like when he wastes his only food as bait)


The thing that bothers me most about M v. W isn't the fact that he stays in hotels instead of the wilderness, it isn't that he ties up wild animals and then pretends to stalk and kill them, it isn't the fact that when shooting a rapids using inflated pants for floatation but really is wearing a life vest under his shirt......what really bothers me is that alot of what he does is dangerous and stupid, and for the novice that watches the show and says -- "Wow, cool, I think I'll try that".....somebody is gonna die.

----------


## 1stcavmp77

ok these guys would bo alot better by their viewers (especially the ones who think there's more than about 10% useful info in any given show) if they would at least start out by telling what you should take if you even think there might a chance that your little day hike could quickly turn into a survival situation. common sense ain't so common anymore. and i did see one episode where stroud built his shelter about 5 yards from the edge of a roaring river and it had been raining non-stop since he arrived at the location. that's just asking to get caught in a flash-flood. and lo and behold when he woke up the next morning the river was alot closer than when he went to sleep. i think anyone who has any possiblity of being caught in a survival situation owes to themselves to be as prepared as possible. prior planning prevents piss poor performance as my drill seargent once told me. just my two bits.  :Cool:

----------


## snakeman

Bear Grills is more daring but not always in a good way. He just shows you how to get out of bad situations. I think survivorman is better.

----------


## crashdive123

> Bear Grills is more daring but not always in a good way. He just shows you how to get out of bad situations. I think survivorman is better.


You seem pretty wise for your years Snakeman.  Just remember that a lot of what Bear is doing could put you in danger rather than get you out of it.

----------


## yukon55

one of man vs wilds epsoides i saw a resort in the distances.

----------


## trax

> one of man vs wilds epsoides i saw a resort in the distances.


probably wasn't all that great of a distance....

----------


## Rick

Blasphemer!!!!! Bear mocker!!!!!  Dost thou think we wouldst believe thine lies about Brother Gryllis? Hang on......I'm back. Had to bite the head off a wolverine. Where was I..Oh, yeah. Blasphemer!!!!!

----------


## yukon55

yeah i know but it was funny because it was like on the 2nd or 3rd  day

----------


## Ameriborn

Anybody watch the new MvW last night?

----------


## Sourdough

Was it on one of them TV thingies, I have no TV. But I have something much better than TV. I have a LIFE. Try it you might like it. How you like them apples.....?

----------


## Omid

wow 22 pages....

----------


## Rick

Uh, click on Page 3 of 22? If that's what you're asking.

----------


## TOOLTIME

I Also Like Them Both...they Both Teach Different Things. Actually, Watching These Shows Is What Really Got Me More Interested In Finding Out More About Survival Type Info.

----------


## Rambo JohnJ

Before watching man vs wild, if i was ever stranded on a mountain or something i would have no idea at all of what i should do. even though the show is partially staged, if you guys didnt know anything about survival before watching these shows like me, you would realize that they are pretty helpful

even small things like getting to the top of a mountain to survey the land or following a river seem like simple things, but I dont think i would have thought of them in a survival situation. his show also does teach good techniques for setting traps and such which i didnt know before

----------


## someguy1980

I liked "Man vs. Wild" a lot until I realized it was totally fake.

----------


## klkak

It is good that the two shows have encouraged some folk to learn about survival. However. There are to many time on those programs where the techniques they use could kill you as apposed to saving you. Don't forget Bear is an accomplished mountaineer/climber. Trying to do some of his stunts without his skill is worse then a bad idea. For example, venturing into a glacial ice cave, climbing a waterfall or as Les did placing his camp on a river sandbar when its raining in the mountains above him. I would suggest viewing the programs as entertainment only and investing in some real world practical survival training.

----------


## crashdive123

> It is good that the two shows have encouraged some folk to learn about survival. However. There are to many time on those programs where the techniques they use could kill you as apposed to saving you. Don't forget Bear is an accomplished mountaineer/climber. Trying to do some of his stunts without his skill is worse then a bad idea. For example, venturing into a glacial ice cave, climbing a waterfall or as Les did placing his camp on a river sandbar when its raining in the mountains above him. I would suggest viewing the programs as entertainment only and investing in some real world practical survival training.


One of the better reviews of the shows that I have seen.

----------


## nell67

Well said klkak,if only people will listen.

----------


## Gray Wolf

klkak, Good post. I would also add, not only is Bear an accomplished mountaineer/climber, but he was in the British Special Forces (for 3 years), he's in outstanding physical condition, and passed the training tests for the French Foreign Legion (which is a great accomplishment). *BUT the show is dangerous!*

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

Those shows are dangerous but remember that they have teams of personel ready to respond to thier emergencies, so much for the "I'm realy surviving thing". Bear says clearly "I'm not staying here tonite but if you had to this is what you could do..."

----------


## jrock24

A better show is " The Grizzly man diaries".

----------


## klkak

Timothy Treadwell was a "MORON Echo-terrorist" that not only got himself killed but also his girlfriend. The bear that killed him should get a "Congressional Medal of Honor" and promoted to "Director of Homeland Defense"!!!

----------


## crashdive123

Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.

----------


## trax

Pardon my naivete ladies and gentlemen, but I've read references to this Timothy Treadwell person a time or two here and I really don't know anything about him. At the risk of having Kevin zero me out with his .338 all the way from Alaska, :Smile:  could someone fill me in a bit on the details of this guy?

and Crash, what are you even doing still here? Shouldn't you be marking down the hours til doomsday? There's still like...seven hours left in the day where I live, eight where Bragg lives!

----------


## crashdive123

Can only tell you what I've read about him.  Born in New York, actor, self described eco warrior.  He and his girlfriend were killed when he set up camp next to a salmon run late in the season.  Bears were fighting each other over there "fishing hole"........guess they saw the two furless ones as easier prey.  

If you google his name there are some sites with pics of the scene of the attack - pretty gruesome.

----------


## klkak

> Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.


I had to sugar coat it or I might have damaged some young impressionable minds. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

Bears always Bite bigger than they  bark! put sugar on your foot and they will knaw on it pretty good.

----------


## crashdive123

On a lighter note.....(I know it's been posted before, but I like it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTJlr6xVxKc

----------


## klkak

> Pardon my naiveté ladies and gentlemen, but I've read references to this Timothy Treadwell person a time or two here and I really don't know anything about him. At the risk of having Kevin zero me out with his .338 all the way from Alaska, could someone fill me in a bit on the details of this guy?


He was a Greenie Weenie that thought he could commune with Alaska's coastal brown bears. The bears ended up using him and his girlfriend as communion.

By the way you can relax. I wouldn't draw a bead on someone I like. That's just plain bad manners.

----------


## Sarge47

> Timothy Treadwell was a "MORON Echo-terrorist" that not only got himself killed but also his girlfriend. The bear that killed him should get a "Congressional Medal of Honor" and promoted to "Director of Homeland Defense"!!!


Timothy Treadwell, Christopher McCandless, Brad & Adrian...these are names that will go into the nominee envelopes for the Darwin Award.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

 I saw the movie documentary:  "Grizzly man!"  Sheesh!  What a NUMPTY!!!  "Here Fluffy!  Here boy!  come here fluffy!  See!  Daddy's got a nice fish for.....AGHHHHHH!!!!!" :EEK!:   Freakin' film should have been called "Grizzly Lunch"!

Sarge's wisdom:  Leave all wildlife, especially the real huge, heavy carnivores, THE CRAP ALONE!!!! :EEK!:  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Cool:

----------


## Dennis K.

Bears - never encountered one in the wild.  Hope to keep it that way. 
The bear equation:

    A small bear can outweigh a grown man by 2 : 1
+   Large bear 3 : 1
+   Bears have bigger sharper teeth, stronger jaws and 4 sets of claws.
+   Bears are faster than me
-   I carry a knife.  
=   Bear wins.

only variable is if I can keep my wits about me enough to not become food.

For those of you that have spent a lot of time in bear country - any threads here you'd recommend or should I trust Baer Grylls?  :Smile:

----------


## crashdive123

Dennis - here's a thread dealing with bears that you may find useful.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ght=bear+spray

----------


## tsitenha

In the UK "Bear" Grylls has been vilified on many forums for his initial episodes those are now shown but with disclaimers.
The newer episodes try to temper extreme reactions to situations with a modicum of realistic responses.

----------


## klkak

"If you encounter a Bear. 1. Stand perfectly still.  2. Let the bear know that you know he sees you.  3. Back away slowly".

What movie did that line come from?

----------


## trax

> "If you encounter a Bear. 1. Stand perfectly still.  2. Let the bear know that you know he sees you.  3. Back away slowly".
> 
> What movie did that line come from?


The Edge, one of my favorite movies "why is the rabbit unafraid?" Interesting that the man who gets to ask that question at the _end_ of the movie is also the only character who follows that advice when they first meet the bear hey bro?

also good posting Dennis (awfully good at basic math) K.

----------


## chiye tanka

Love that movie. Mostly Bart the bear.

----------


## Rick

Les is a dork!!!!  Bear shows you "how to". Rich!!!!

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## crashdive123

Might be a little bassackwards there IMO.

----------


## Gray Wolf

> Les is a dork in my opinion.  Most of the time he's just trying to survive the 5 days he's dropped there.


First it's 7 days he has to survive.



> He doesn't take in enough protein or anything else to sustain him and most of the time he barely scrapes by by the skin of his teeth.  As far as his survival skills go, he's a complete loser.


A loser? He survives! His shows are always set up as "your dirt bike breaks down", "you've lost your sled dogs", "your small plane goes down in the middle of nowhere", etc, situations where you wouldn't have much with you. Les does what we would all like to do, survive! How would you do in a strange place, with little or no equipment???? How would you have done being from where you're from and going on a sightseeing trip over the Northwest Territory and the plane goes down and the pilot didn't have a BOB on the plane, and he died in the crash? Humm, do you know the wild edibles in that area? Do some look the same, but are not, there poisonous... Oh No! It's snowing and starting to get dark...  Les _"as far as his survival skills go, he's a complete loser",_ I think not!

----------


## Rick

> What is the difference between that and parachuting in?


Uh, my blood curdling scream interrupted by deep breaths interrupted by more blood curdling screams until I slam into the earth. Oh, yea. Ripcord. Duh!




> Bear was pro-active in his survival because you can't always count on someone coming looking for you; he got off his arse, oriented himself, assessed the situation and made a plan to live.


Dude! He drinks his own pee and squeezes water from elephant poo. Need I say more?




> Bear really takes a bum rap on this forum and Les is held to be almost a mythical figure.


All Hail, Les! All Hail, Les! All Hail, Les! 




> he *demonstrates* how to get your butt out of a crack.


Go look in the mirror. Your butt is a crack. (Or vice versa)




> Personally I would follow Bear anywhere


So would we. It's how we rack up our frequent stay points at Residence Inn. :Big Grin:

----------


## Rick

It's the old joke....

I radioed in. They said we could either die or squeeze water out of the elephant poo.

And?

And it looks like we're gonna die.

----------


## Gray Wolf

> Compare the two shows of Les and Bear


You can't, 
Bear has a whole team with him at all times! Les does not!
Bear stays in a hotel at night! Les does not!
Bear (as seen in the West Scotland show) has a cameraman help him out of a hole he fell into! Les does not! He films himself!
I could go on....

----------


## klkak

> So he starts with a scenario "your dirt bike breaks down, sled dogs run away" etc.  What is the difference between that and parachuting in?  It all amounts to the same thing.  Just because you say "my sled dogs ran away" changes nothing; you're still stuck out there and, chances are, you will die unless you know some serious survival skills.  I'm not disrespecting Les; I just think he's irresponsible for promoting himself as "survivorman".  A healthy person can go 6 weeks without food so 5 or 7 days is not a big deal.


Just recently in the news there was a story about a man that went into the desert on a dirt bike for a short camping trip.  Sometime later they found his body. In other words. It's a believable scenario that could and has happened.  




> As to your question as to whether I would know what to do "being from where you're from" (point well taken).  The answer is yes but only because I've watched Bear show how to make emergency shelters, build a fire with a flint, a bow starter (made in the wilderness) or using a 9v battery and steel wool.  He points out edible plants and warns of poisonous ones.  He shows how to trap successfully and use alternative and creative means of catching fish.  Bear demonstrates the principals of how to get back to civilization by always going downhill and following a creek or river.  He also emphasizes one of the most important things - morale.  You have to believe in your getting out if you're in a situation like that or you will most certainly make mistakes (most often compounding on themselves) and die.


Thank you for letting us know the extent of your survival education.  




> Compare the two shows of Les and Bear when they were dropped in Alaska.  Les ate rotten salmon that even an eagle rejected.  Bear feasted on fresh salmon.


It wasn't rotten salmon and the eagle didn't rejected it. It is very common for an eagle to catch a fish, eat a couple bites and leave the rest. As for Bear feasting on fresh salmon. He was on a stream with spawning fish in it. Les wasn't.




> Les nearly burned his flimsy little "shelter" (with no wind or rain protection) to the ground.


Les didn't nearly burn his shelter to the ground. It caught fire and he put it out. He was protected from the rain or did you miss that he found some plastic that he Incorporated into the roof?





> Bear's shelter was warm and kept him out of the wind and rain completely.


According to him. It is common knowledge that Bear doesn't stay in the field. He stays in a hotel.




> Les waited for the camera crew to pick him up.  Bear was pro-active in his survival because you can't always count on someone coming looking for you; he got off his arse, oriented himself, assessed the situation and made a plan to live.


There are very few times when you should move from your present location unless it is for safety or to get into an area close by that makes you more visible. Most often it is best to stay where you are and do every thing possible to draw attention to yourself.  




> Bear really takes a bum rap on this forum and Les is held to be almost a mythical figure.  For what, because he can go on a 7 day diet?  Bear does some crazy things but drastic situations often call for drastic measures and he *demonstrates* how to get your butt out of a crack.


This is something that has been discussed before. Bear does things that will get you killed in a hurry unless you have his physical conditioning, strength, agility and climbing skills.




> It's not like he actually enjoys jumping through the ice and into the water of a frozen pond but shows how to get out, warns of the urge to suck in water because of the thermal shock, and how to get out of the water and how to get your clothes dry and keep hypothermia from setting in.  He eats the most disgusting things imaginable but it's all for the viewers sakes, to show us "you can do it and live".  I'm not trying to bash Les; just put things in perspective.  *Surviving, to me, is taking control of the situation and making a plan and not getting yourself in a situation that spirals out of control.*  Personally I would follow Bear anywhere but I wouldn't take Les with me on a hunting trip in Alaska.


Venturing into a glacier cave, climbing down a waterfall or up a 1000ft cliff are not situations that could spiral out of control?

"What we have here is a fella (TrapperRick) with a very romantic view of what survival is!!!"

TrapperRick, I invite you to participate in the "Survival situation scenario's" after you have read a few hundred of the posts on this website.

----------


## Sarge47

> Les is a dork in my opinion.  Most of the time he's just trying to survive the 5 days he's dropped there.  He doesn't take in enough protein or anything else to sustain him and most of the time he barely scrapes by by the skin of his teeth.  As far as his survival skills go, he's a complete loser.  He darn near starved to death in Alaska, even though food was all around him, not to mention that he almost burned his "hut" to the ground.  Bear does do some risky things but you've got to use your head too.  What he shows is a "how to" survive, techniques you can actually put to use.  Les just stuggles until the camera crew comes to save him.  It plainly says on Bear's website and on the show that some scenes are staged for instructional purposes but for the most part he's on his own.  Anyone that would prefer Les over Bear either has a death wish or doesn't have enough survival skills or woodcraft to fill a thimble.  Just my opinion.


So...then...you think it's ok to drink urine straight from the bladder? :Confused:

----------


## Gray Wolf

> As to your question as to whether I would know what to do "being from where you're from". The answer is yes but only because I've watched Bear show how


That's scary! And that's why his show is dangerous!  :EEK!:

----------


## Gray Wolf

Were you aware that he is now selling knives (with the knife maker) with his name on them for $700!

Yes I left alone "it's ok to drink urine"....

----------


## trax

TrapperRick, you want to go out in the wilds _anywhere_ and follow Bear Gryllis' advice, fill yer boots dude, let us know how it works out for you if you get back.

Fighting the urge to yawn mightily here.

----------


## Gray Wolf

Sorry I couldn't leave it for the young people that are here:

*From the US Army Field Manual 21-76*, Ch. 6, in the Do Not Drink table:[6]

"Urine: Contains harmful body wastes. Is about 2 percent salt."

*From the SAS Survival Handbook* How to Survive in the Wild, in Any Climate, on Land or at Sea John Wiseman 2004 Harper Collins, p. 494:

"DO NOT drink urine."

*From Dr. William Elfarr, Urologist* and former president of the Texas Urological Society:[7]

""In general, it is not beneficial to ingest one's own urine during times of starvation and/or dehydration. The urine at those times is concentrated with high sodium, other electrolyte and mineral content. This is counterproductive when one is dehydrated.""

*From Master Sergeant Gary L. Benton*, survival instructor to B-52 crews:[8]

"Finally, a few things you should not do. Do not drink urine. It is a waste product of a body and is just that, waste (think about that for a second…when a body passes urine, it is not longer need or useful). Drinking urine can even make you sick."

*From Tom Brown Jr.*, survivor school founder and instructor [9]

"Don't drink urine (unless you've first purified it by means of a solar still) because doing so will increase your body's rate of dehydration. "

*From Equipped.com*, a survival site:[10]

""Never drink blood or urine. They will only hasten dehydration."
*
From Adventure Sports Online's 5 basic survival tips*:[11]

"Never drink urine."

*From the USGI Canteen Group*:[12]

"Also, don't drink urine or sea water. Some folks say that it's saved their lives, but there is no evidence to back this up. Both contain high levels of toxins that cannot be filtered out except by distillation or reverse osmosis"

*From Wildernesssurvival.net*, prominently in the "Remember!" section:[13]

"Do not drink urine."*

Bear cites the case of three Mexican fishermen who were lost and supposedly lived off of turtle blood and urine. This claim seems to have been pulled from thin air. The fishermen reported drinking rainwater, not blood and urine:*

"We ate raw seagulls, ducks and fish. We ate everything raw - any fish that came near the boat we grabbed it and gulped it down," Jesus Vidana told Televisa channel in an interview late Tuesday.

"We drank rain water because it rained every day," he said. "Twice we almost sank. The waves washed into the boat and we thought we were going to die."

Even if they had also drank blood and urine (which seems to have been reported nowhere but Man vs Wild), they're drinking freshwater, too.

Les Stroud has NOT drunk his own urine. Rather, in the desert episode, he distills the water from the urine and drinks the water from the resulting condensation -- he explicitly states the risks of drinking urine without proper filtration. As the various quotes above demonstrate, drinking urine especially while dehydrated is an extremely bad idea.

----------


## klkak

> I think you guys are missing my whole point but then, according to Klkak, I know nothing about survival anyway.


I did not say you don't know anything about survival. I said:



> Thank you for letting us know the extent of your survival education.


From another thread. 


> If you are going to be an active member of this forum you have got to have a tough hide! If you are tender skinned then you are going to get your feeling hurt. Most of us are not intellectuals. We range from barely able to read & write rednecks to Remy. With some of us, the filter between what pops into our mind and what comes out on the key board is broken.
> 
> "If you want to run with the "Wolf pack" then you have to expect to get bitten once in a while"

----------


## klkak

Thank you G.W. for that extremely informative post.

----------


## Gray Wolf

Again, that is why that show and Bear Gryils are dangerous, as we see here, even adults can be taken in, and believe some of that crap...  :Mad:

----------


## Dennis K.

TrapperRick - you like Baer Grylls.  I like Les.
In any event, I am not about to watch their shows and then think that I am qualified to survive in those situations.  Wilderness survival and bushcraft take time and practice, not TV shows.  What I will greatfully thank both men for is that they do seem to inspire many people to think about wilderness survival situations.  Once the brain is activated, that usually allows the rest of the carcass to follow.
Baer and Les are like Wikipedia - a good place to start, but by no means gospel.

All that to say, hey dude, I'm glad your here.  No need to leave.

----------


## klkak

The following are quotes from earlier in this thread.




> _post #445 of this thread_ It is good that the two shows have encouraged some folk to learn about survival. However. There are to many time on those programs where the techniques they use could kill you as apposed to saving you. Don't forget Bear is an accomplished mountaineer/climber. Trying to do some of his stunts without his skill is worse then a bad idea. For example, venturing into a glacial ice cave, climbing a waterfall or as Les did placing his camp on a river sandbar when its raining in the mountains above him. I would suggest viewing the programs as entertainment only and investing in some real world practical survival training.





> _post #448 of this thread_ I would also add, not only is Bear an accomplished mountaineer/climber, but he was in the British Special Forces (for 3 years), he's in outstanding physical condition, and passed the training tests for the French Foreign Legion (which is a great accomplishment). BUT the show is dangerous!

----------


## chiye tanka

TR, LISTEN to what is being said. When I first joined, I got "bit" with my first post by Sarge. I licked my wounds, and am still here. 
All the members here are open and willing to help anyone learn, provided we are willing to be taught.
Just some survival food for thought. :Cool:

----------


## trax

> I'm going to email Les Stroud and tell him not only can he have sex with my daughter, I'm also including him in my will.



Um, just for the benefit of the unattached younger gentlemen in this forum, how often do you.....no, never mind that would just be rude...

----------


## crashdive123

Trapper Rick - I don't think you offended anybody's feelings.  BTW I have a few heroes in my life, and I can assure you that neither Les nor Bear are one of them.  Here's the issue I have with Bear....1st, in another thread it was Klkad that noted he is SAS trained, an mountain climber, and competent athlete - nobody would deny any of that.  Somebody watching the show that does not have the same skill sets that he has, but tries to emulate what they see are going to either hurt themselves or worse.  Can valuable infromation be picked up from his show?  I believe it can be.  Since some of the exposure of what really takes place on the show, he now adds disclaimers.  One time when he didn't - and was shooting a rapid sans kyak you can clearly see the outline of a life preserver under his shirt (youtube video).  Now neglecting to let an inexperienced viewer in on that little trick could cost them their life.  Here's what some from the other side of the pond think of him.   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d--hotels.html

----------


## klkak

No body on this forum hates Bear or Les! we dislike them passing on bad or dangerous  information.  In turn, We caution folks to view them as entertainment only. There is possibly hundreds of years of survival experience on this forum. The majority of experienced people on here agree a great deal of the things that Bear does on his show and to a lesser extent Les on his show, are either down right dangerous, careless or impractical.

----------


## Rick

The first thing you have to do is put all of this into perspective.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Done! No one has a bulls eye on them unless you hang it there yourself. As far an entertainment value it's fine. If you want to learn survival skills, you can learn some good ones from either one. You can also pick up some very dangerous ones. More from Bear, I'm afraid that from Les. Either way, I wouldn't put all my trust in either one. Hang on. 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

There! All better.

----------


## Gray Wolf

> I was unaware that if you have a dissenting opinion of some on this board, people's fangs come out.


TR it has nothing to do with dissenting opinions, we have kids on this board that are members and are only 12 years of age. I don't want to be responsible for one of them getting sick or hurt or worse, because of what the adults here say. I don't idolize either of them. I was the one who posted:
 "I would also add, not only is Bear an accomplished mountaineer/climber, but he was in the British Special Forces (for 3 years), he's in outstanding physical condition, and passed the training tests for the French Foreign Legion (which is a great accomplishment). BUT the show is dangerous!"

I'm sure your aware of kids imitating (at 10-16 years old) the WW- and have gotten severely hurt. They look up to us for answers here about wilderness survival. We even look to each other for new ideas, or answers to things we don't know. That's it.... Nothing to do with dissenting opinions.

----------


## trax

Unless of course you disagree then it's all about dissenting opinions again, but overall, I'd say that Gray Wolf guy sure does put some serious thoughts into his posts and the posts are always well composed. I'd probably vote for him for moderator (gotta balance out Crash's ego here) In fact I might befriend both those dudes ifn' they weren't durned Americans......(oh Whoops! We're already friends  :EEK!: )

----------


## klkak

I think Trax should be a moderator. Oops, strike that. He can't be a moderator he's the Emperor or something already.

----------


## crashdive123

Judging from TR's avatar change, I'd say he may not want to play anymore.

----------


## Gray Wolf

Sign language is my guess.  :Big Grin:

----------


## trax

> Judging from TR's avatar change, I'd say he may not want to play anymore.


Or he's flirting with someone. Heyyy, the guy said he had a sense of humor, come on now..

How about (or aboot if I wish to translate to my native tongue, Canajun) if I'm just a moderate emporer klkak?

----------


## Sarge47

I don't want you to go overboard about Bear or Les.  Take them of leave them, but remember, there are certain things no one should do in a survival situation, & drinking urine is one of them.  In one of his shows Les did show how to "distill" urine to make it safe to drink, & that's the only way to do it.  I like Les cuz he blows a mean harp, mainly.  But he also demonstrates certain survival tools, like the Magnesium Block for fire making, so everyone can see how it works.  My favorite program with him in it was not "Survivorman", but rather an episode of "I Shouldn't be Alive; the Science of Survival."  I DO think that Bear has a cute tush for an SAS guy, however, as does your avatar, is that a "self-portrait"? :Big Grin:

----------


## nell67

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/r...-show-7983.php

----------


## Dennis K.

I can certainly understand Les Stroud's reasoning.  I think he has done an excellent job of getting people to think more about their natural surroundings.

I think his blog mentioned that he working on more "off the grid" projects.

Looking forward to his farewell season, and sad to see it go.

----------


## Gray Wolf

In tonight's episode, Les needs a SAR team rescue, when he gets lost (it's a new one).
Should be interesting, being that he has lots of training. What goes wrong???  :EEK!:

----------


## Rick-SAR

Sarge47,

Right on!  When we find lost subjects they DON"T have a survival pack with them.  If they did they would also be smart enough to know navigation, tell somone where they are going etc.  Most folks we look for are in trouble because they don't know enough to have good boots, warm clothes, water, PLBs, SPOT beacons, etc.

We also teach survival (not the Tom Brown kind) to med flight crews on how to stay put, stay warm and wait for rescue.  

I do think these shows show more of what not to do then what to do.  Eating bugs, vegetation, etc., will do more to harm (or not do much to help) you and you spend a lot of needed energy doing it.

A new book out "Lost Person Behavior" by Robert J. Koester, says that 93% of 12,900 world wide searches were located withing 24 hours of being lost.  Of 1881 lost subjects that were surveyed only 6% had survival training. 

Take care,

Rick-SAR  www.SearchAndRescueTraining.com

----------


## Sarge47

To all members who don't know who Rick-SAR is he's a bona-fide "Search & Rescue" guy who has a lot on his plate, so he doesn't post as much on here as I would like, but I count every post he DOES make a blessing. :Cool:

----------


## Ole WV Coot

I enjoy his no BS posts and the stats. Glad for his posts also.

----------


## sgtdraino

> Looking forward to his farewell season, and sad to see it go.


Ditto. Survivorman has been great.




> In tonight's episode, Les needs a SAR team rescue, when he gets lost (it's a new one).
> Should be interesting, being that he has lots of training. What goes wrong???


I was a bit disappointed when I saw this, and learned that nothing really went wrong. Les was participating in an excercise with the local SAR team, and got lost on purpose so that they could get some practice looking for him.

----------


## Rick-SAR

I wish he (Les) would show more what to do rather then "hype" the show.  Tens of Thousands of kids throughout the US and Canada have been taught the Hug-A-Tree program (I forget what it is call in Canada).  It teaches to "hug" a tree (stay put) and other easy survival skills.  

When the kids that have seen this program are lost hear or see a aircraft they should lay down and form an X with their arms and lags (spread eagle).  NOT WAVE as Les did.

Think about it if you are in a aircraft and looking down someone standing up you only see him from the top down (unless it is early or late in the day where shadows make him/her bigger).  Waving is not a good way to signal the searcher.  Waving at a helicopter is a signal for danger - don't land etc. There have been cases where a search helicopter has not responded to a subject waving thinking that he was a searcher.

In a major study in AZ some years ago test were done in mountains and deserts of AZ by the Air Force and SAR volunteers from southern AZ.  In the test 60% of volunteers were standing and waving were spotted by the aircraft.  81% were spotted "lying spread eagle".

When your search from the air you look for something that is not natural to the terrain.  Obviously if you see anything that is X shaped you are going to investigate it.  By the way the pilots found more subject then observers.

I saw in the program he was using a gridded signal mirror. I think it would have been much more beneficial to use another type of reflector (compass mirror, knife blade, CD, etc.)  Explaining that you hold the reflector close to your eye put your arm out and shine the sun spot on your thumb.  Once you see the reflection on your thumb then you put your thumb (keeping the reflection on it) in line with the search aircraft.

Other simple survival tools the kids are taught is to always have a whistle with them when out in the woods - he also could have used it to signal the SAR team.

Rick-SAR
www.SearchAndRescueTraining.com

----------


## red lake

His new project is survivorman kids. There is a web site for it if you google it.

----------


## klkak

> I saw in the program he was using a gridded signal mirror. I think it would have been much more beneficial to use another type of reflector (compass mirror, knife blade, CD, etc.)  Explaining that you hold the reflector close to your eye put your arm out and shine the sun spot on your thumb.  Once you see the reflection on your thumb then you put your thumb (keeping the reflection on it) in line with the search aircraft.
> 
> Other simple survival tools the kids are taught is to always have a whistle with them when out in the woods - he also could have used it to signal the SAR team.
> 
> Rick-SAR
> www.SearchAndRescueTraining.com


In September of 2006, I broke my right leg very badly while moose hunting. I won't go into the details again.  When the rescue helicopter arrived in the area it was a couple miles away from my location. I had with me as part of my survival gear a device called a "Laser flare" made by Great land lasers. As soon as the light hit the helicopter it turned and came straight to my position. When the crew got to me the pilot asked me what I signaled him with. I showed it to him. He was so impressed with it that he bought one the next day and has had it in his flight suit ever since.

----------


## HOP

Recently Les Stroud has announced that he will stop making survivorman and is moving on to other things. 
He does have a book just out called Survive and I will try to find a copy soon.

----------


## Rick-SAR

I have not heard of the "Laser Flare" I did look it up on Google and see the range (at night) is about 10 miles - looks like a neat device.

There were test done with Army Signal devices in the 1800 that documented a 200 mile range.  The test was done from one mountain top to another.   However, my point was that "Les" on his show tries to show how to survive with what you have with you.  Not many would have a gridded signal mirror, Laser Flare, smoke etc.

I carry a Mark 5 orange smoke flair with me, gridded signal mirror, whistle, etc.  your two points are right on:

1. If it's in your kit and you don't know how to use it....It's useless.
2. If you can't reach your kit when you need it....Its useless.

Rick-SAR
www.SearchAndRescueTraining.com

----------


## ADEPT

well crap.  I did like the show

----------


## Sourdough

> well crap.



That is how I feel about all T.V. just so much used dog food.

----------


## klkak

I carry a gridded signal mirror along with pen-flares and the laser-flare.  I have discovered that a good deal of the time when signaling needs to be done, the sun is not available.  Especially here in Alaska.  I change the battery in the laser-flare every 90 days unless I use it then I change them ASAP.

As for the two points in my signature: I believe in them so strongly that I apply them to everything I do.

----------


## wareagle69

hey kids we still have a new season to look forward to

----------


## ledzeppie

this makes me feel sad =(
now I'm stuck with man vs wild...("ok now you just repel down this 200 foot waterfall with a 3/4 inch thick vine")

----------


## Gray Wolf

I too always carry a gridded signal mirror along with pen-flares. It's called being prepared...
They take up such little room in your pack, that there is no reason not to carry them.

klkak, I believe the two points in your signature completely!

----------


## Gray Wolf

Les's new book, Survive!: Essential Skills and Tactics to Get You Out of Anywhere - Alive
$13.57

http://www.amazon.com/Survive-Essent...636829&sr=11-1

----------


## BuckyBadger

Man vs Wild wins in my book. Anyone who says Bear Grylls shows "suicidal behavior" doesn't know what they're saying. Bear is a _very_ experienced climber, having climbed to the sumit of Mt. Everest and many other mountains. Whenever he does anything of the sort on the show, he says to never attempt it in a survival situation unless you're an expert and are aware of the risks involved. Bear delves into almost every aspect of survival, from first aid to finding food, keeping warm to building shelters, and much, much more. He explains how to avoid confrontation with dangerous animals, and in one episode he even talked about how to avoid kidnaping by local guerillas who have been known to do such. There have been episodes in every kind of place. Just to name a fraction of where I've seen him, I would say: Numerous locations in Africa including the Savanna and Namib, the Amazon, the Everglades, Patagonia, Alaska, Ireland, Mexico, South Dakota, Australia, and many others. As this show has been running for quite some time, there have been many other episodes. Think of anything about wilderness survival, and I can assure you, he's covered it on numerous occasions. All in all, my answer is yes. If I had to chose one program for people to watch to educate them on wilderness survival, it would be Man vs Wild, hands down.

----------


## crashdive123

Hey BuckyBadger - head on over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself.  Thanks.

----------


## Foxman

I trust both Bear and Les very much... But I enjoy Survivorman more because he's all alone in the wilderness with NOBODY to help him with anything. Plus he has to carry all of his camera equiptment around. Bear has a whole crew of people with him, whom could be supplying his with a sleeping bag, pillow, food, water, and anything else he might want to make it easier, and then hiding the evidence afterwards. I'm not saying he HAS done this... but I'm just saying that you know for sure with Les. Also, Bear seems to take more dangerous actions when facing poisonious animals or 100 foot high waterfalls, while Les trys the best he can to find at least one more route away from the danger.

----------


## Sarge47

> I trust both Bear and Les very much... But I enjoy Survivorman more because he's all alone in the wilderness with NOBODY to help him with anything. Plus he has to carry all of his camera equiptment around. Bear has a whole crew of people with him, whom could be supplying his with a sleeping bag, pillow, food, water, and anything else he might want to make it easier, and then hiding the evidence afterwards. I'm not saying he HAS done this... but I'm just saying that you know for sure with Les. Also, Bear seems to take more dangerous actions when facing poisonious animals or 100 foot high waterfalls, while Les trys the best he can to find at least one more route away from the danger.


Bear teaches things that'll get you killed, like drinking urine straight from the bladder...that is bogus! :Cool:

----------


## italia

I like both shows. I like Survivorman a little better though. They both don't stand a chance against Ray Mears' old shows though. Also i just watched Les Stroud's "Off The Grid". I loved it! http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...15152822&hl=en

----------


## rockymtnchief

> Bear seems to take more dangerous actions when facing poisonious animals or 100 foot high waterfalls, while Les trys the best he can to find at least one more route away from the danger.


I stopped watching Bear after he suggested you jump in the river and float yourself downstream to safety while in Montana. First of all, you could drown. If not, hypothermia will get you.

----------


## doug1980

Well considering it is T.V I take them both with a grain of salt.  However I belive Survivorman to be a little more realistic and practical.  Bear might have tons of training and experience but that isn't what the show should be about.  I think Les tries to paint a realistic picture in that most people will have minimal to no experience.  And the normal person won't scale a cliff or jump 40 feet into a river.  Bear takes too many risks for the sake of making his show more entertaining, which doesn't help in a real survival situation.

----------


## minuteman

not sure what you mean by "have to  basis" but Les from survivorman is the real deal and is quite knowledgeable about survival situations.  Bear Grylls seems to be fairly knowledgeable but his camera crew often helps him out in survival situations and many things on his show are infact staged.  If you don't want to be deceived then stick to survivorman.

----------


## doug1980

I just finished his book, only took two days of reading.  Very informative, great book IMO.

----------


## Stairman

Les never seemed to be an expert to me.I have never learned anything from the show.His shelters were poor as well as his traps.I do enjoy the show however for the entertainment,Bear Grills seems to be more experienced at survival and I have learned a few things from him.But I wont be squeezing an elephant turdball into my mouth for its water content,nor do I eat reptiles or hard shelled insects raw.I do love his show.I know some disagree with my opinion of Les but I just think I could do better in these situations,minus the camera work.

----------


## MCBushbaby

I think this was a good time for him to stop.  He's done pretty much every environment short of urban.  Another season would just seem redundant unless they put some stupid twist on it (and you know they will for ratings!).

EDIT:  What I would like to see is a 2-hour, or multi-part, session where Les faces off against Bear.  Both dropped into the wilderness (same kind for both of them), different locations, and each has to film themselves (no film crew, Bears!).  They have, say, 2 weeks to survive.  First one to hit the emergency beacon loses.  If both last, winner is whoever survived the best at the end.  Put an end to Survivorman vs. MvW once and for friggen all!

----------


## Stairman

Bear would win and Les knows it.[IMO]

----------


## sgtdraino

> Bear would win and Les knows it.[IMO]


That was *without* film crews, hotel rooms, and off-camera help, Stairman.

My money's on Les, by a *lot*.

Something I loved in Les's last episode: He went through all the various methods he's used in the past to start a fire, and said that this time he would use a different one. He then produced... his butane lighter! LOL!

Particularly ironic since you survival experts seem to favor a simple Bic as your primary firestarting tool.

----------


## crashdive123

Ironic???  Wouldn't simple (and reliable) be your best option in a stressful situation?

----------


## MCBushbaby

Strange, because I'm moving away from lighters.  I ran one under the sink for a few seconds and couldn't dry it off enough to start again for at least 30 min.  Did the same with a firesteel and it starts good as new

----------


## sgtdraino

> What I would like to see is a 2-hour, or multi-part, session where Les faces off against Bear.  Both dropped into the wilderness (same kind for both of them), different locations, and each has to film themselves (no film crew, Bears!).  They have, say, 2 weeks to survive.  First one to hit the emergency beacon loses.  If both last, winner is whoever survived the best at the end.  Put an end to Survivorman vs. MvW once and for friggen all!


What do we think? Who is the better survivor, Les or Bear?

----------


## MCBushbaby

Oh god, not another one of these threads.  PLEASE!  one is already stickied!  I'm not playing.

*folding hands and turning away*

----------


## nell67

Pretty sure we did this before,pretty sure my vote stayed the same too.

----------


## sgtdraino

> Ironic???  Wouldn't simple (and reliable) be your best option in a stressful situation?


Yes, that's why it's ironic. It took 23 episodes for Les to finally use the best firestarting option.

----------


## sgtdraino

> Oh god, not another one of these threads.  PLEASE!  one is already stickied!  I'm not playing.
> 
> *folding hands and turning away*


Ah, but this is the first one to actually incorporate a *poll* into it!  :Big Grin:

----------


## crashdive123

I'll never move away from a fire steel as they will work under any condition.  As some of the pics I've posted reveal, when I travel into the bush I carry several options.  Everyday, I carry a bic in my pocket (small kit in each vehicle with more options)....besides, I get funny looks when somebody asks for a light and I pull out the fire steel.

----------


## crashdive123

> Yes, that's why it's ironic. It took 23 episodes for Les to finally use the best firestarting option.


Noooooow I get what you're saying.  Guess he was just showing alternatives to what everybody already knew.

----------


## wareagle69

look above dude 50,000 veiws with 520 replies how about this who cares allan beauchamp will put both to shame

----------


## RobertRogers

Gotta love his expensive knife, though

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## wareagle69

> Les never seemed to be an expert to me.I have never learned anything from the show.His shelters were poor as well as his traps.I do enjoy the show however for the entertainment,Bear Grills seems to be more experienced at survival and I have learned a few things from him.But I wont be squeezing an elephant turdball into my mouth for its water content,nor do I eat reptiles or hard shelled insects raw.I do love his show.I know some disagree with my opinion of Les but I just think I could do better in these situations,minus the camera work.


dude do your research, les has lived off the land with his wife for a year he has worked as a professional guide and survival insructor and trained with some of the best in thw world guys you probably have never heard of but are truley craftsman at what they do allan beauchamp and gino ferri to name two of many les has trained with imho he is the real deal can you prove the same about bear. you say you could do better than les? seriously dude what are your credentials for that mighty arroagant statement

----------


## chiangmaimav

There was a tragedy here awhile ago where 2 young tourists on jungle trek drowned. The guide told them not to go into the water as it was near rapids amd very strong current. They went anyway, and drowned. Afterwards the guide, who did not speak very good English, said they had told him "the guy on tv does it all the time." I don't know who they meant, but it shows you not to rely completely on what you see on tv.
I do not see any of these shows over here but back in US  I loved to watch Survivorman, and I did once see him drink jungle water with no filtration or boiling or anything, which did make him sick. I stopped watching the Grylls show after the waterfall episode. I also was broke down on Natchez Trace in middle of night back in 1974. Would not care to do it again.

----------


## tacticalguy

I think Les is a better example.  He doesn't go jumping off waterfalls or into rivers.  He has a better example of survival.  If you want to watch a show on survival watch him.

----------


## Stairman

> dude do your research, les has lived off the land with his wife for a year he has worked as a professional guide and survival insructor and trained with some of the best in thw world guys you probably have never heard of but are truley craftsman at what they do allan beauchamp and gino ferri to name two of many les has trained with imho he is the real deal can you prove the same about bear. you say you could do better than les? seriously dude what are your credentials for that mighty arroagant statement


Not arroagence,If he's as good as you think he is then he sure is holding back alot of information on his show.A whole lot.Ive never saw him mop dew,build a warm shelter using natural fluff for insulation or build any useful deadfalls or snares.He starves half to death on every episode and freezes to death on every other show.Im not bashing Les,I love the show,but for its entertainment value and not for usefull information.

----------


## christagious

Survivorman is definitely more educational.  While Man vs. Wild sometimes has some good tips, it's more of a "hey I'm such a bad***, look what I can do" kind of show.  





> The thing that bugs me is the fact that they never bring up stuff like, what to use in lieu of toilet paper.


 I never even though of that when watching episodes, what are some good things to use?  I forgot about the fact that nature calls even during survival.




> .if they got in a fight against one another survivor man would beat him senseless and live of his corpse for weeks.


Although I think Les is better at survival, I have to disagree with you hear.  I think Bear would win no problem in a fight, he has that elite SAS training.

----------


## Stairman

Toilet paper?lets see,smooth stones,soft yet pliable leaves[not poison ivy]soft bark,water,moss[smoke it first to kill redbugs]corn cobs[2 red ones and 1 white]start with a red one,then use the white one to see if you need the other red one......As far as Bear goes he could kick the snot out of Les.I cant believe the results of the poll either.

----------


## Sarge47

> I saw Urban Survival too, i think. Wasn't that the one when he talked to the Katrina survivor? If so, that was very good. I also like Survivorman and Man vs. Wild. Know, I don't know much about nothing, but I do realize that most of the things Bear does on Man vs. Wild aren't neccesarily the right things to do but I do find it more entertaining than Survivorman.


...and Bear has a cuter Tush as well...right? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   Let's all lift a glass of warm urine in honor of B.G. & his upcoming endorsements of Holiday Inn Express! :Big Grin:

----------


## klkak

> ...and Bear has a cuter Tush as well...right?  Let's all lift a glass of warm urine in honor of B.G. & his upcoming endorsements of Holiday Inn Express!


He may have a cute tush but can he wear a twinky suit?

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

Today is a survivalists education day, les stroud has every show he ever made (back to back!). it makes me itch to go and try an exercise in survival skills. I dont have 7 days, so i take it as i can get it. thanks to people like les , survival is even more a household name. What is your opinion about the
"teaching potential" of material like les stroud?

----------


## red lake

what channel?

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

> what channel?


discovery channel

----------


## larmus

i like les he has some good ideas and teaches some but its no substitute for the real thing... i think its geared for the armchair survivalist, but dont get me wrong i really enjoy watching him survive, cause he goes into like a person who was just out for the day and ends up getting lost and he uses only that which he has on hand...

----------


## red lake

The intro in his new books says survival is not fun. It is not a camping trip. It is an emergency situation and you will likely have to endure pain, eat gross things and push yourself beyond your normal limits in order to survive. I think he does a good job showing this in his shows.

On the other note Discovery in Canada has a different schedule. Crap.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

He does show the rigors of surviving, he could show more edibles than he does and other things like working with pine pitch, birch bark,ect.. all can be done with conservation in mind,and without damaging trees or ecology

----------


## Sarge47

I like Les, dude plays a mean harp! :Big Grin:   He also demonstrates several Survival items like the Mag. block, fish trap, survival items stored in the butt of a .22 rifle, etc..  One thing that I thought a lot of this showed was that even with a rifle, knowledge, knife, whatever; there is no guarantee that you're going to find what you need to eat in the wilds.  It's great "classroom" instruction, but doesn't do anything for "field" instruction.  But then, no TV program can do that! :Cool:  

 p.s.:  The time he had the dog-sled teams you will notice that he never mentioned killing & eating the dogs. :EEK!: 

Also, I now need to move this thread over to the "sticky" on the continuing dialouge between the two shows....sorry.

----------


## crashdive123

Here's my .o3.  While I believe that Bear has an incredible amount of skills both physical and mental, I believe Les portrays a more realistic view of what it would be like in the situations on the shows.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

> Here's my .o3.  While I believe that Bear has an incredible amount of skills both physical and mental, I believe Les portrays a more realistic view of what it would be like in the situations on the shows.


I agree, he does portray realism , and also I think that mabe les uses some of the tools he makes to show that even the simplest person can make something that he needs to get food or a job done. I would like to see some of his expert hand crafts that he makes, that we dont get to see on the shows.

----------


## larmus

> Here's my .o3.  While I believe that Bear has an incredible amount of skills both physical and mental, I believe Les portrays a more realistic view of what it would be like in the situations on the shows.


finaly someone who thinks the same way, ive had arguments where the other person wouldnt even listen to the fact i said bear had better skills and had military training... some people just dont like to hear the truth...

----------


## Sarge47

> finaly someone who thinks the same way, ive had arguments where the other person wouldnt even listen to the fact i said bear had better skills and had military training... some people just dont like to hear the truth...


..can be quite fickle at times.  It has been brought to my attention that the SAS unit that B.G. belonged to was the equivalent to our "National Guard."  BTW, does anyone know if Les has ever had any military training? :Confused:

----------


## klkak

After graduating from Mimico High School in 1980, Stroud went on to complete the Music Industry Arts program at Fanshawe College in London, Ontario.

Stroud worked for several years at the Toronto-based music video channel MuchMusic, and as a songwriter for his band New Regime before a Temagami canoe trip sparked a career change.  During this time he also worked as garbage collector for the City of Toronto.

In 1990 Stroud became a guide for Black Feather Wilderness Adventures leading canoe excursions into the Northern Ontario wilds. It was also during this time while on a survival course he met his wife, photographer Sue Jamison. They married in 1994 and together left for a year-long honeymoon in the remote Wabakimi area of Ontario which was to become the basis of the documentary Snowshoes and Solitude.

Afterwards, the couple moved to Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories where Stroud was employed as an outdoor instructor to special needs individuals of aboriginal descent. Stroud and Jamison then settled in Huntsville, Ontario, and started the outdoor instructional outfit Wilderness Voice and the media company Wilderness Spirit Productions. Inspired by the popularity of the television show Survivor, Stroud pitched a more authentic version of the show to The Discovery Channel Canada.

Stroud produced two programs titled One Week in the Wilderness and Winter in the Wilderness for @discovery.ca in 2001. The success of these specials led to the development of his current show Survivorman which follows a similar format, leaving Stroud on his own, with minimal equipment, in the wilderness to film his survival experience.

Stroud has extensive experience with survival and primitive living skills, initially training with experts *Gino Ferri and David Arama*. He went on to study with many others including *John "Prairie Wolf" McPherson*.

Stroud has been an active participant in adventure racing and has competed at the Canadian championships.

----------


## RichNH

Hi all, I'm a brand new member here.  Interesting reading some of the replies on this thread although I didn't read all of them.  Personally I've watched one or two Man vs Wild shows and all the Les Stroud shows I can.  I liked Survivorman so much my kids got me the first season for Christmas a year or two ago.   :Big Grin:  

Personally, from what I saw in Man vs Wild, he's gonna get someone who doesn't know what he/she is doing killed one day.  But that's just MHO.

Looking forward to learning from this site, ta ta!

Rich

----------


## crashdive123

I think a lot of folks are in agreement with you RichNH.  How about heading over to the introduction section when you get a chance and tell us a bit about yourself.  Thanks.

----------


## RichNH

Actually, I looked for an introduction section and didn't see one.  Hmmmm, must be lost, anyone have any survival tips for being lost in a forum?

Rich

PS, someone mentioned about the episode Les did with the dog sled and said he didn't mention eating the dogs.  Actually, I watched several of his episodes today and I heard him mention eating sled dogs in one of them, perhaps it wasn't the episode with the dog sled but I thought it was.  I could be mistaken of course, I'm old enough to suffer from CRS on a regular basis...

----------


## crashdive123

Here you go Rich.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

----------


## RichNH

You know, it's amazing what can be accomplished with the up and down arrows....  After you told me that a thread did exist, I went looking it darn if it didn't take all of 30 seconds...   Now I've come back here to eat some tasty crow...  Oh well, not a very auspicious beginning...

----------


## crashdive123

Hey, crow seems to be a great survival food.  I eat it all of the time. :Wink:

----------


## larmus

mmmm... crow, ive had that once or twice...

----------


## Sarge47

Anybody notice all the votes for Les Stroud & only one for "Grylli Vanilli"?  :Big Grin:  Hey bear, you actually have a fan!  Maybe he'll even buy your $700 knife! :EEK!:   No matter how hard I try, I still can't get that picture of Bear doing push-ups in the snow, bare-arsed nekked, out of my mind! :EEK!:  :Cool:

----------


## crashdive123

Careful Sarge.  Chiye Tank may send the Spirt Talkers to visit you. :Wink:

----------


## SARKY

Can we just call a spade a spade? Bear is an adrenaline junkie and a fraud! The BBC has already outed him for staying in hotels when he claimed that he was sleeping in the bush. Also if you watch his show very closely you can see where events are sooo staged. The one show where he was in the rockies and used a rabbit stick to take out a rabbit, if you look closely you see that the rabbit is staked out. And yet we are subjected to frauds like bear and Jeraldo by the producers of these shows (Oh that's right Bear is one of the producers of his show)

----------


## dougz

I'm a little late to the conversation, but in my opinion Survivorman is the better series, and Les the superior survivor..

*1.*  Les shows his triumphs _and_ his failures..  

*2.*  Les survives for a _week_ on his own (not for the couple hours he spends filming, whereupon he retreats to his hotel with his camera crew)..

*3.*  Les came up with the idea first 

(reading alot of yahoos claiming Les stole Bear's thunder)..  

Man Vs Wild, Oct 27, 2006, Survivorman November 1st, 2004

*4.*  Les is Canadian..

Case closed, in my opinion..

Edit:

One thing I can't stand is Les's annoying Shater-lite cadence when he's doing his opining monologues, etc..

If I'm going to _sur'viiive_ in this barren _wilderness_, it's going to take every _oooounce_ of _strength_ to...

LOL

----------


## Sarge47

> If I'm going to _sur'viiive_ in this barren _wilderness_, it's going to take every _oooounce_ of _strength_ to...
> 
> LOL


Les does that to "sell" the series to the "armchair survival freaks".  It creates suspense, drama, & ratings for Discovery Channel! :Big Grin:

----------


## dougz

Don't get me wrong, it's a great show and I have nothing against even what he says during these segments..

I just wish he'd use his normal voice..   :Smile:

----------


## RichNH

And when a jaguar shows up outside Les' camp he does the normal, rational thing.  He runs for his LIFE!!!  Now THAT's survival!   LOLOLOL

----------


## klkak

If I remember correctly in one of Bear's episodes he took off running for his life in the middle of the night because he heard a sound in the brush.  He didn't even know what it was.....just a sound.  It could have been a coon, skunk, dear, etc..., Whatever it was he ran like a scared puppy.  It appears that the British SAS trained killer is afraid of things that scurry in the ground litter at night.

----------


## crashdive123

> If I remember correctly in one of Bear's episodes he took off running for his life in the middle of the night because he heard a sound in the brush.  He didn't even know what it was.....just a sound.  It could have been a coon, skunk, dear, etc..., Whatever it was he ran like a scared puppy.  It appears that the British SAS trained killer is afraid of things that scurry in the ground litter at night.


It was probably the local Girl Scout Troop out foraging for mushrooms.

----------


## tsitenha

Bear was with the TA to which the SAS were attached to as a regiment, a slight difference. He tends to "bend" the facts.
Like my father served with an American Special Forces unit but was a Canadian soldier not an American Special Forces, they just needed his lets say... "expertise" He even got a citation from the Americans.

Klkak: if memory serves me it was a buddy dressed in a cartoonish suit a la Yogi Bear, seen picture of it. Ron Hood was on his first shows as an advisor but quickly disassociated himself.

----------


## Ole WV Coot

I was under the weather this weekend and stayed in the sack with the tv on watching a good ole Les marathon to help me sleep. I did wake up when Les and 2 guys went hunting somewhere in the temperate zone of either the US or Canada, don't remember which. 3 men, 3 bright red Honda quads back into the boonies, parked and went in 3 different directions. Les had a nice camo ground stand, another had a permanent tree stand, the other from the ground. Rained like crazy, Les ventured forth, didn't know where he was, used his universal signal 3 shots bang, bang 10sec delay then bang, an answering bang then a game of here I am, where are you, oh by the way his 3 well timed shots were fired into the underbrush, one way to find his friends, couldn't find their ATVs and Les' hand held GPS batteries were dead after only a full day?? No compass? Walked to a tree stand but didn't know what direction to the ATV? They did their survival bit, badly for over 7 days before being found by SAR. I left a lot out, but plenty of chuckles for someone like me in my kind of territory. I think he has a taste for snake, frogs and other fish bait. Guess inbreeding does that.

----------


## RichNH

Went shopping today and when I cam home I got my last Christmas present in the mail.  Kids picked me up the second season of Survivorman....   YEA!!!    :Big Grin:

----------


## MANABA

Les is probably a better survivor. Not to say Bear isnt as good but they are filming at 2 different perspectives. Les has no crew for safety so he cant do all the high speed dangerous things Bear does. Bear appeals more to me on my military background side. But Les is my choice for a true survivorman. But lets face it both shows are set to get ratings and make money for networks and the hosts. Its a rough job but someones gotta do it. I dont know....its just TV.

----------


## Gray Wolf

> Bear appeals more to me on my military background side.


As I've posted before, Bear is an accomplished mountaineer/climber, he was in the British Special Forces (for 3 years), he's in outstanding physical condition, passed the training tests for the French Foreign Legion (which is a truly great accomplishment) and is the youngest person to successfully climb Everest. BUT the show is dangerous!!!

----------


## rockymtnchief

> BUT the show is dangerous!!!


I'll agree to that. As I've mentioned before, I saw the episode where he jumped into a Montana river and floated his way downstream to find civilization. He then casually walked to the road and got a lift. He failed to mention that  Montana rivers are formed from snow run-off, mountain springs, or cold rains. 99% of people trying this same stunt would die from hypothermia unless it's in July or August.

----------


## sniperfx

bear is too commercialized. he also does very dangerous stunts that will get you killed. tries to paint a glamorous picture of a crappy reality....

----------


## Gray Wolf

Following allegations in 2006 that the show deceived viewers into believing that he was really stranded in the wild when he was not, Channel 4 temporarily suspended the show for a few weeks. Discovery aired re-edited episodes, removing elements that were considered too planned, with a fresh voice-over and a preceding announcement pointing out that some situations are 'presented to Bear to show the viewer how to survive'. Both Discovery and Channel 4 have continued to broadcast the program.

An adviser to the Man vs. Wild/Born Survivor series had claimed that Grylls had been staying at a California lodge while filming. A crossing of a deep crevasse was shown to be within sight of a road. Bear was shown taming 'wild' horses who had horseshoes on their hooves when the film was examined closely and which turned out to be ex-Ranch horses. Similarly, it was alleged that Grylls had stayed at a crew base-camp in the Costa Rican jungle, while giving viewers the impression that he was alone. Further, there have been several other incidents, including the impression Bear built a raft "in a matter of hours with no tools." According to the adviser, the raft was actually in part built by a show stunt consultant. This particular episode implied was filmed on a small south pacific island, which as Channel 4 revealed was actually a small peninsula in Hawaii, the scene of at least three Hollywood movie shoots. These allegations were confirmed by Channel 4, who argued that it was not a documentary, but a "how-to" guide to survival, implying that re-shot scenes were acceptable in that context.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Geronimo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpSlpvb1is

This hillarious clip shows just how "wild" Bear's adventures are.

Les wins hands down.

----------


## ATough

Ya watch his behind the scenes footage, he uses ropes and harnesses. I dont really put much stock in what he says and does.

It is sad the Les isnt doing another season, but I respect and understand his reasons. Still I am going to miss seeing a new episode of his shows.

----------


## ethan_shane1022

I watch both of these shows and I have to tell you that they are both worth watching. How can any of you say bad things about Bear? It SHOWS him sleeping out in the wilderness at night! It shows him setting up camp on every show! You all think you know so much but I dare any of you to get out there and do what Bear does! He was a member of the British Special Forces for Christ sake! It is obvious he can do the things he shows and it's obvious he would be able to survive if he needed. You don't become a BSF if you can't do the things he is doing on his show. I mean, if it were you in his place and you had the choice to sleep in the wild or sleep in a hotel what would you do? Most of you people probably couldn't camp in an RV, much less out in the freezing cold on the ground! Quit living your lives for stupid reality t.v. shows. I stumbled on this forum because when I was watching the show today I saw a shirt on Les that I was curious about what it meant. This will be the first and last reply I ever post. I just got to reading some of the things you have posted here and I wanted to let you guys know how sad and pathetic you are for getting so upset over a guy not being as realistic as you would like. Plus, the things he's doing you wouldn't ever do yourself in a million years! It may be reality t.v., but hello! it's still t.v.!

----------


## Pal334

I am watching an episode of Survivorman that shows how he prepares for his adventures. Great examples on how to prepare. He visits local experts and gets "tutoring" on local conditons. Examples: What plants are edible, animal dangers, weather conditions and how to deal with them and much more of course. Not sure if it is new or old show, but is a good watch. Even someone with his skills needs a little help. Obviously this type of time to prepare prior to a specific calamity is not always available, but does remind one that general prepardness is essential for all skill levels.

----------


## tsitenha

to bad you can't stay and really learn.

----------


## dougz

> This will be the first and last reply I ever post.


Don't let the door smack you in the *** on your way out..

%$#@* troll...

----------


## dougz

Yup, couldn't agree more..

There is no way you can know every region's specific dangers and tricks of the trade, and the first step in avoiding disaster is preparation..

----------


## welderguy

I watch both shows whe I can, i like them both. I persoanly wouldnt put my self in danger on purpose as they do but Hey if thats what they like doing, more power to them.

Now on the other hand , being trained survivors as they are why are they going off in the wilds with no preps, what happend to being prepaired , I understand they may lose there packs or main gear but what about a pocket kit, I dont do anything like they do and I carry a small one in my pocket , along with my multi tool, pocket knife, lighter, and firestarter kit.

----------


## dougz

> what happend to being prepaired


If you watch more of the Survivorman show, you'll see Les spends a week or more with the natives or local survival experts before heading out..




> I understand they may lose there packs or main gear but what about a pocket kit


Les often does have the bare essentials..

Sometimes even a gun, or an ax, which really WOULD be must haves in that particular region (the Arctic, etc)..

And he ALWAYS has a multi-tool on him..

----------


## trax

[QUOTE=ethan_shane1022;93864]..... Plus, the things he's doing you wouldn't ever do yourself in a million years! QUOTE]

well that's true, but that would be mostly because we're not retarded.

----------


## crashdive123

It's a shame that you won't stick around ethan_shane1022.......could be fun.

----------


## trax

ethan_wolfbait_shane?

----------


## crashdive123

That pretty well sums it up.

----------


## MANABA

:Smile:  :Frown:  :Confused: lets move on....both are good tv shows...its all a matter of opinion. By the way les has a youtube 6 part series about off the grid living fairly interesting. Anyhow can we move on now?...The debate is gettin worn out. :Big Grin:

----------


## crashdive123

With almost 600 posts on the topic in about 23 months, sadly I fear that the answer will be no. :Frown:   Nice thought though. :Big Grin:

----------


## Tracker

^^ well said

----------


## Stairman

Ethan will probably linger around like a bad fart.He may not post but he'll be looking to see how long we talk about him.

----------


## crashdive123

Well, when somebody takes a look at one thread (I'm betting he didn't read all that many posts in it) out of over 90,000 posts and assumes (that's right, I said assumes) he knows what this forum is about..........yeah good luck with your endeavors mate, hope you don't approach wilderness survival the same way.

----------


## dougz

> both are good tv shows..


Aye, and that's your opinion..   :Smile: 

But by all means, let's everyone agree with manaba and move on..   :Wink: 

I watched ONE Bear show where he leaps from a plane into a river in a US swamp for absolutely no good reason (_WHY_ couldn't the plane slow down enough for him to get off normally, again?  Obviously that's what the camera crew did)..  

Then I watched him eat a few bites of 3 animals then toss them away..

That was the first and last Bear show I'll ever watch, besides the few U-tube clips that show him taming "wild" horses, etc..

----------


## sgtdraino

Ah, Bear and Les. The two gifts that keep on giving, but in entirely different ways!  :Big Grin: 

I say let's *not* move on! This is fun!  :Big Grin:

----------


## MANABA

> With almost 600 posts on the topic in about 23 months, sadly I fear that the answer will be no.  Nice thought though.


well, thats fine.....obviously les wins....look at the polls. His off the grid thing makes me wanna buy land in Canada though. Bear is still a better show by ratings, probably why he gets another season. How about them Cowboys huh?

----------


## tsitenha

The unfortunate news Bear fell in the Antarctic while filming a show and is now in the UK (I think) for assessement and rehab (broken shoulder and such), I wish him well but it had to catch up with him.

----------


## klkak

Please allow me to reiterate.




> It is good that the two shows have encouraged some folk to learn about survival. However. There are to many times on those programs where the techniques they use could kill you as apposed to saving you. Don't forget Bear is an accomplished mountaineer/climber. Trying to do some of his stunts without his skill is worse then a bad idea. For example, venturing into a glacial ice cave, climbing a waterfall or as Les did placing his camp on a river sandbar when its raining in the mountains above him. I would suggest viewing the programs as entertainment only and investing in some real world practical survival training.

----------


## doug1980

> The unfortunate news Bear fell in the Antarctic while filming a show and is now in the UK (I think) for assessement and rehab (broken shoulder and such), I wish him well but it had to catch up with him.


Wonder if they'll air that show?  Didn't he almost die in a rock climbing accident or mountain hike before he started the show?  I watch both shows mainly for entertainment.  I still think Les is more realistic with the scenarios though.  And I liked his book, very informative.

----------


## tsitenha

Apparently the show was not for Discovery but an alternative fuel company. The weather was not good but chances were taken.....

----------


## klkak

> The unfortunate news Bear fell in the Antarctic while filming a show and is now in the UK (I think) for assessement and rehab (broken shoulder and such), I wish him well but it had to catch up with him.


Good thing he had his crew with him....he might not have survived. :EEK!:

----------


## tsitenha

Klkak is right the shows are entertainment value, even this season (not yet aired in Kanata) shows some suspect firearm practices??? So as in all TV a grain (or two) of salt needs to be taken along with a good reality check.

----------


## klkak

> Wonder if they'll air that show?  Didn't he almost die in a rock climbing accident or mountain hike before he started the show?  I watch both shows mainly for entertainment.  I still think Les is more realistic with the scenarios though.  And I liked his book, very informative.


Hey doug, you wanna get together and try out your new survival kit next week?  You know like a winter camping trip...,

----------


## tsitenha

He would not have, definately, busted shoulder and all tissue damge was extensive. Also had a hard time evacuating him it took a few days because of weather problems. A very close brush with death. Maybe this will tone things down a bit if he comes back.

----------


## klkak

> He would not have, definitely, busted shoulder and all tissue damage was extensive. Also had a hard time evacuating him it took a few days because of weather problems. A very close brush with death. Maybe this will tone things down a bit he he come back.


I don't know.  He broke his back jumping out of an airplane or so he says and it ain't stopped him from doing that.

----------


## doug1980

> Hey doug, you wanna get together and try out your new survival kit next week?  You know like a winter camping trip...,


When were you thinking?  I'm working 13 days straight, worked all this week, working all weekend, all next week and next Saturday.  I'm off Sunday then back at it.  We might be able to squeeze it in sometime.

----------


## crashdive123

Read a 5 question interview with Bear in the latest Outside Magazine.  When asked about the gross stuff (eating poo) he implied that it was all for the ratings.

----------


## klkak

> When were you thinking?  I'm working 13 days straight, worked all this week, working all weekend, all next week and next Saturday.  I'm off Sunday then back at it.  We might be able to squeeze it in sometime.


Let me know when you have at least 2 days off in a row.  Preferably when its above -0-.

----------


## doug1980

> Let me know when you have at least 2 days off in a row.  Preferably when its above -0-.


2 days off is easy enough, above 0 I'm not so sure of.   :Big Grin:

----------


## klkak

> 2 days off is easy enough, above 0 I'm not so sure of.


We should really do this.  Take some good pictures to share with the folks here.  I have a place in mind out at Knik.

----------


## doug1980

> We should really do this.  Take some good pictures to share with the folks here.  I have a place in mind out at Knik.


I'm down for it.  Maybe the weekend of the 24th we could.  It sould be a little warmer.  You wanna do an actual camping type trip but practice primitive ways to do things, set some snares and such?

----------


## crashdive123

Looking forward to the pics guys.

----------


## klkak

> I'm down for it.  Maybe the weekend of the 24th we could.  It sould be a little warmer.  You wanna do an actual camping type trip but practice primitive ways to do things, set some snares and such?


That sounds like a great idea.

----------


## doug1980

> That sounds like a great idea.


I haven't been camping in years.  It's gonna be so cold. :EEK!:   But fun.

----------


## welderguy

> If you watch more of the Survivorman show, you'll see Les spends a week or more with the natives or local survival experts before heading out..
> 
> 
> 
> Les often does have the bare essentials..
> 
> Sometimes even a gun, or an ax, which really WOULD be must haves in that particular region (the Arctic, etc)..
> 
> And he ALWAYS has a multi-tool on him..


the few episodes I have seen of both shows I cant remember either having more than a knife and sometimes a fire starter of some sort.

----------


## sgtdraino

> Bear is still a better show by ratings, probably why he gets another season.


Neither show would have trouble getting another season. The only reason Survivorman is ending, is because Les has decided to retire. His last episode was pretty brutal, suffering from puking and diahrea the whole time. I think it might be the most miserable I've ever seen him.




> the few episodes I have seen of both shows I cant remember either having more than a knife and sometimes a fire starter of some sort.


Les tries to base his scenarios on situations that ordinary people might find themselves in by accident, largely unprepared. Because hey, if you were totally prepared, then you probably wouldn't be in a survival situation. He does normally always have his multitool, though. His reasoning being that he always carries it on his belt, and thus would always have it with him. Good example for the rest of us, too.

----------


## red lake

Okay, I am watching Bear Grylls in Siberia ad he is truly an idiot.

I have never seen anybody so reckless in my life. 

But I want to watch the whole episode.

----------


## TDG

I think Les Stroud is the better one, but I usually enjoy Man vs. Wild more. Bear Grylls is more sensational, a real TV personality.

----------


## Sarge47

Today I watched one of Les' "season 3" episodes where he was in the Sierra Nevada area working with the SAR.  He was playing the "lost hiker" & their job was to find him.  He had a tent, headlamp, some food, & a 1st aid kit.  He used a couple of the items to start his fire.  It was near the end of the program when he caught my attention with something that he said.  He mentioned that, when in a survival situation, walk with caution; nevre run or move about carelessly.  That's when I realized the difference between the two guys:  Les is always looking or portraying a situation that has actually happened, or could actually happen.  He's teaching on what can save your life.
Bear, on the other hand, is all about Bear!  He runs around recklessly, showing things that can get people seriously hurt if they don't have his training, physique, or a near-by camera crew.  :EEK!:  I notice that Bear's series premier will start tomorrow night on Discovery.  I don't know if I'll watch it or not...I'll at least try. :Cool:

----------


## endurance

Yep, that Siberia episode of Man vs. Wild was rediculous.  When he took off all his clothes to jump into freezing water, to get out in -20 air temperatures was pure stuntman and not someone trying to ensure their survival.

Les has earned my respect by his conservative approach.  I also respect his desire to retire.  He's not a young man and he's gone too many weeks alone and without food to be worth it, no matter how much they're paying him.  No less the hassle of going back and forth all day to get the shots that are needed to put together an entire episode.  Respect due, Les.  You da' man!

----------


## tsitenha

There is a better more personal reason for Les to retire. I'll let it stand as is but it a good one.

----------


## SurvivorMan002

Despite my screenname being survivor man haha, i have been watching many episodes of SurvivorMan recently. Even tho i love to watch the Tv show,does anyone think that it might me setup. Sometimes it seems like it could be, even tho Les Stroud is always reminding us that he is all alone with nothing else than his multi-tool and his camera equipment. I would love to believe that its as real as he tells us, and I will continue to watch the show either way. But sometimes i cant help to think that more happens behind the cameras then we think. For those of you who watch this show i am not trying to put it down in ANY way because i love SurvivorMan just as much as the next guy....but just wanted opinions from other to see what they think as well.

----------


## tsitenha

After the initial set up, he is alone and that is what really kicks the snot out of him for the week, all that trudging back and forth. 
He is really tough, so is Bear for all his fault Grylls is tough also.

----------


## doug1980

Well obviously the whole thing is setup, planned and researched.  I really haven't noticed if Survivorman is setup, I do believe that Man vs Wild is all staged.  He always happens upon a dead carcass or magically catches small game in his snares.  I also believe he is very tough and deserves respect for serving his country.  But he does things that could kill people.  Les and Bear both have a responsibility to be aware that whatever they portray, someone will try to emulate or take as gospel.  And in Bear's case I feel he doesn't think about how his actions could affect his viewers.  The topic of wilderness survival shouldn't be viewed or portrayed as an action TV series, but more of an educational series.  Just my opinion though.

----------


## tsitenha

Last year Bear had to admit that he was staged, his UK episodes are preceeded witha disclaimer. I saw the Siberian episode were he comes across an Elk still soft no rigor in it or freezing???

----------


## ride_gnu

Bear Grylls is staged 100%, says so online on discoverey website last time I checked.  As for survivorman.  I do not belive their is any staging.  However as Les Stroud says, "I am here to film a survival show, not to survive, surviving just comes along with it."

----------


## endurance

The only thing I see as staged in Survivorman is the lack of how much study and research they show that he does before each filming.  I have no doubt that he spends days and sometimes weeks pouring over maps, studying routes, becoming familiar with landmarks, learning from local guides about the local foods, hazards, and tricks.  At the end of the season this year there was a bonus episode that lifted the veil on that and I'm sure some people saw that as a disappointment.  However, I think it's completely unrealistic for anyone who's actually doing what he did for several seasons out to think they wouldn't do everything in their power to minimize the risks and hazards.  Especially with the Northern Rockies episode, there's little doubt that in that heavy timber and steep terrain he could have easily broken an ankle and been in a valley so steep with such heavy tree cover that no sat phone could save him.  He'd be an absolute idiot not to have a pre-planned route for an episode like that so he'd have a fighting chance of survival if he didn't check in at the end of the week.

Toward the end of the series I suspect he was probably using the product he endorses, the SPOT, with the tracking feature so his crew could track his progress in case of emergency, but is that really cheating?  I think it's just common sense.  I think it's common sense enough that I bought one myself last year as another layer of peace of mind.

----------


## dougz

I bought one of those SPOT things, too..

BEFORE I found out you have to pay a $100 US yearly subscription..   :Frown:

----------


## primeelite

SurvivorMan is better to watch if you are trying to pick up a few tips to survive, and Bear is just entertainment because if someone really does everything he does they would die two or three times each episode. I like watching Bear but like many have said he seems to find random carcasses and plants that will help him. I have been out a lot and do not find as many full just killed animals, I think they do stage a lot of things on the show to make it more interesting.

----------


## doug1980

Watching Bear right now in his new episode, Belize.  He always has to make a dramatic entrance.  Lets see what all he does wrong or stupid in this one.

----------


## Gray Wolf

Just a re-post of the info I got from the stations and people involved...

Following allegations in 2006 that the show deceived viewers into believing that he was really stranded in the wild when he was not, Channel 4 temporarily suspended the show for a few weeks. Discovery aired re-edited episodes, removing elements that were considered too planned, with a fresh voice-over and a preceding announcement pointing out that some situations are 'presented to Bear to show the viewer how to survive'. Both Discovery and Channel 4 have continued to broadcast the program.

An adviser to the Man vs. Wild/Born Survivor series had claimed that Grylls had been staying at a California lodge while filming. A crossing of a deep crevasse was shown to be within sight of a road. Bear was shown taming 'wild' horses who had horseshoes on their hooves when the film was examined closely and which turned out to be ex-Ranch horses. Similarly, it was alleged that Grylls had stayed at a crew base-camp in the Costa Rican jungle, while giving viewers the impression that he was alone. Further, there have been several other incidents, including the impression Bear built a raft "in a matter of hours with no tools." According to the adviser, the raft was actually in part built by a show stunt consultant. This particular episode implied was filmed on a small south pacific island, which as Channel 4 revealed was actually a small peninsula in Hawaii, the scene of at least three Hollywood movie shoots. These allegations were confirmed by Channel 4, who argued that it was not a documentary, but a "how-to" guide to survival, implying that re-shot scenes were acceptable in that context.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## trax

Ah jeez. Why doesn't somebody lock the two of them in a dark room with a sock full of sh*t  each to beat on each other with and the one that manages to come out is the true survivor and that's the end of it once and for all.

----------


## nell67

> Ah jeez. Why doesn't somebody lock the two of them in a dark room with a sock full of sh*t each to beat on each other with and the one that manages to come out is the true survivor and that's the end of it once and for all.


Mmmm,I guess Les really does win then,cuz Bear would be sitting there eating the sh*t out of his sock :EEK!:

----------


## MCBushbaby

Hmmm, I find that while Grylls is increasing the Darwin award nominee pool, he does have some interesting techniques.  I just saw him the other day put socks over his boots to gain traction on glacier ice.  Albeit I wouldn't be *ON* a glaciar without crampons in the first place, it's still a good idea if you find yourself on a slippery slope.  So yes, Bear is wacky but he still teaches some good stuff... you just have to filter out the rest of the 90% bilk.

----------


## crashdive123

> Hmmm, I find that while Grylls is increasing the Darwin award nominee pool, he does have some interesting techniques.  I just saw him the other day put socks over his boots to gain traction on glacier ice.  Albeit I wouldn't be *ON* a glaciar without crampons in the first place, it's still a good idea if you find yourself on a slippery slope.  So yes, Bear is wacky but he still teaches some good stuff... you just have to filter out the rest of the 90% bilk.


I don't think too many would argue that Bear has some skills.  The problem that most (at least me) have is that to the inexperienced viewer that doesn't know to filter out the BS, will go out and cause harm to themselves.  Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing in all cases.

----------


## trax

I feel my point was lost...I mean there' s _32_ pages of this...

----------


## sgtdraino

> I feel my point was lost...I mean there' s _32_ pages of this...


I think you mean 33!  :Big Grin:

----------


## crashdive123

See that!  It's your fault!


On a serious note (who would've thunk it)....those two shows, and others like them are probably what drive quite a few people to this site, so naturally there will be a lot of discussion on the shows.

----------


## yukon55

i like both the thing about bear is he shows you the army way of survival like you need to be always on the move and not stay in one spot for too long and move at night, and les shows how to use  what you have at that time and just wait if have to move

----------


## MCBushbaby

Well Bear's philosophy is to get out while Les's is more along the lines of staying put and waiting for rescue... or if that's not possible, THEN navigating out.  But Bear takes this to the extreme by rappelling off cliffs, crossing lava bridges (WTF!!  Some kid might imitate this!  WTF were they thinking), etc.

----------


## trax

> i like both the thing about bear is he shows you the army way of survival like you need to be always on the move and not stay in one spot for too long and move at night, and les shows how to use  what you have at that time and just wait if have to move


rather like the wolf mills episode of running around for no apparent reason?

----------


## Ryleyboy

This show is on at 7:00 on channel 411 on bell express view every day. just to let some of you know. the channel is called OLN i belive.

----------


## Sourdough

Channel 441....? That must be an "AM" Radio station right. But my radio only goes down to 500 AM.....do you have a special radio.....?

----------


## flandersander

nope. bell express view. Satelite tv. it is on outdoor life network, and so is man tracker, another favorite.

----------


## trax

Wonder whatever happened to that woman from the mantracker show, she quit coming around.

----------


## Aurelius95

I stopped watching Man vs. Wild last season.  Too sensationalized and a bunch of doo-doo.  However, before MvW was a show, Bear climbed Mt. Everest at 22 years of age!  At the time, he was the youngest Briton to do so.  His story recounts the events that took place in 1997, a year after the horrific accident that killed 8 (not sure the number, but many) climbers on Everest.  It's a good read.  After reading that book, I read Into Thin Air, which is a retelling of the 1996 climb.  

While I don't care for his show, Bear Grylls has done some amazing things and I respect him for that.  

Has anyone read Les Stroud's book?  I just put in a request for it at the library, and I'll be anxious to give it a read.

----------


## doug1980

> I stopped watching Man vs. Wild last season.  Too sensationalized and a bunch of doo-doo.  However, before MvW was a show, Bear climbed Mt. Everest at 22 years of age!  At the time, he was the youngest Briton to do so.  His story recounts the events that took place in 1997, a year after the horrific accident that killed 8 (not sure the number, but many) climbers on Everest.  It's a good read.  After reading that book, I read Into Thin Air, which is a retelling of the 1996 climb.  
> 
> While I don't care for his show, Bear Grylls has done some amazing things and I respect him for that.  
> 
> Has anyone read Les Stroud's book?  I just put in a request for it at the library, and I'll be anxious to give it a read.


I just finished Les' book.  I thought it was pretty good.  Lots of good info.

----------


## Swamp Shuck

I really don't want to bust too many bubbles here but it takes money to climb Everest.  I did it in my early thirties.  If a person has money, is in halfway decent shape, and wants to go, they can.  While yes, there is danger, it's not the feat we like to think it is.  The mountain is mainly a garbage dump now and not as dangerous to climb as many other much smaller mountains.  Climbing it doesn't make anyone a great survivor.  It makes them rich enough to afford the oxygen supply to get up there.

shuck

----------


## Sarge47

> I really don't want to bust too many bubbles here but it takes money to climb Everest.  I did it in my early thirties.  If a person has money, is in halfway decent shape, and wants to go, they can.  While yes, there is danger, it's not the feat we like to think it is.  The mountain is mainly a garbage dump now and not as dangerous to climb as many other much smaller mountains.  Climbing it doesn't make anyone a great survivor.  It makes them rich enough to afford the oxygen supply to get up there.
> 
> shuck


Well said!  What's a permit cost to attempt to summit Everest from the same side as Jon Krakouer did today?  last I heard it was 50-60 K! :EEK!:

----------


## klkak

The one mountain I'd like to climb is "Mt. Marcus Baker" In the Chugach range of Alaska.  I've looked at it a thousand times and wondered what it would be like to look back from its peak.

----------


## old soldier

could this be true
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpSl...eature=related
 I remember last fall on one of the main streanm media channels, they said he was sleeping in motels when he was supposed to be sleeping in the jungle

----------


## sthomas

Coincidentally the _Jan 2009 Backpacker_ magazine has a piece covering this very topic.

http://www.backpacker.com/return_of_...n/skills/12479




> Survival shows like Man vs. Wild and Survivorman are endless sources of guilty-pleasure entertainmentbut can they actually help the hapless endure the perils of wilderness? In "I Will Survive," (October 2008) writer Steve Friedman decided to find out. An outdoor novice, he entered the Oregon backwoods with his more experienced 16-year-old nephew Eddie, hoping to weather nature's onslaught using wisdom gleaned from from Bear Grylls, Les Stroud, and John Rambo.


You'll have to read the article to see what the writer's opinions were.  This back-reference might give you a hint as to "who wins" though (heh).

In the _Backpacker_ December 2008 issue there was a quiz question of;
*Les Stroud is (blank) as cool as Bear Grylls.*

The Backpacker magazine answer was "*twice*".

This thread is so long that I confess I have no time to read it.  Maybe some day......

----------


## KritterKeeper

If you ask me Les is more practical. But hey.to each his own.

----------


## Gasquagu

Survivorman.

----------


## QTpie

bear is just a big damn fake 
 les is out there doing the real thing 
 my 2 cents

----------


## Dennis K.

Whatever your feelings about either guy, why don't you head on over to the Introduction page, and tell us a bit about yourself?

----------


## wildography

Bear Gryllis is an idiot and Man vs Wild is barely a survival show... its a _drama_ show. He takes unnecessary risks; he makes things _more_ difficult than they really are; and he misleads you about how to survive in the wild.

Survivorman is more realistic; however, he often makes VERY poor/inadequate shelters or chooses poor locations for shelters.  He also, at times, seems to make amateurish mistakes intentionally... when he should be showing the best way to do a particular task.  Overall, though, his show is far superior to Idiot vs Wild.

----------


## crashdive123

Well, now that you've told us all about them, how about heading over to the Introduction section and tell us about yourself.  Thanks.

----------


## wildography

> Well, now that you've told us all about them, how about heading over to the Introduction section and tell us about yourself.  Thanks.


LOL... done deal!  If you want to find more about me, just GOOGLE search my user name: wildography.  Or, just ask!

----------


## polishpunk

i dont like how survivorman ended. i think it was good show. y wood he end it? he only got 3 seasons in i think, thats not that much. he got me into surviving.

----------


## Stairman

I think it was taking a toll on his body half starving every episode.Im wondering if the producers held him back from running a proper trapline.

----------


## Sarge47

> i dont like how survivorman ended. i think it was good show. y wood he end it? he only got 3 seasons in i think, thats not that much. he got me into surviving.


Soooo, you're saying that prior to watching the show you were just planning on dying? :Confused1:

----------


## polishpunk

no im saying that hes the reason i like to go hiking wenever i can. i still havnt gone out and survived off the land but i want to for the most part

----------


## Sarge47

> no im saying that hes the reason i like to go hiking wenever i can. i still havnt gone out and survived off the land but i want to for the most part


Ya know, I don't know if you're Polish, or just a Numpty!  Nobody in their right mind goes out & deliberately puts themselves in a life & death situation, & I don't believe that you will either since, on another thread, you tell us your running away from your girlfriend!  Oh you're bad alright! :Innocent:  :Cool2:

----------


## endurance

Has anyone else watched the Man vs. Wild podcasts?  His own podcast debunks any lingering though that he's anything but a stuntman in an outdoors environment.  The size of the crew, the number of consultants, the safety measures they take on each sequence has nothing to do with survival in the wild.  I used to despise the show, but since figuring out that it's just mindless entertainment, I've actually learned to enjoy it.  He's no Survivorman, but once you stop making the comparison and just enjoy it for a stunt show, it's much more palatable.

----------


## crashdive123

While I agree with your assessment of the show, what bothers me is that they portray it as something it isn't.  Bear is an extermely accomplished individual with skills.  Unfortunately, to many that watch the show and do not realize that so much is staged - there is the potential for harm coming to those that try to mimick what they see.

----------


## Gray Wolf

> Bear is an extremely accomplished individual with skills.  Unfortunately, to many that watch the show and do not realize that so much is staged - there is the potential for harm coming to those that try to mimick what they see.


Now THAT'S QUALITY CONTROL! And GREAT Advice!!!  :Thumbup1:

----------


## earlthegoat2

Les has better technical real world survival skills.  Bear is more entertaining I think though.

----------


## Rick

We'll see which show stays on the longest. That will determine who the survivalist is. :Lol:

----------


## evan2

Yeah at the beginning of the man vs. wild show it says something about it being pretty fake( I forget what it says). I even read an article about him and his crew sleeping in a hotel during a survival week. But you do have to give it to him for eating a nut out of bear feces and drinking his own urine.

----------


## Rick

Oh, good Heavens, No. That's just crazy stuff. Drinking your own urine is just plain dangerous. Never do that. There is a whole thread on that on the forum. And wait until someone eats an acorn or something out of bear poop and contracts E. coli. If anything, he's getting worse.

----------


## Sarge47

> Oh, good Heavens, No. That's just crazy stuff. Drinking your own urine is just plain dangerous. Never do that. There is a whole thread on that on the forum. And wait until someone eats an acorn or something out of bear poop and contracts E. coli. If anything, he's getting worse.


That's why many of us intensely dislike M. v. W.; because he shows dangerous examples of what NOT to do. :Cool2:

----------


## evan2

> Oh, good Heavens, No. That's just crazy stuff. Drinking your own urine is just plain dangerous. Never do that. There is a whole thread on that on the forum. And wait until someone eats an acorn or something out of bear poop and contracts E. coli. If anything, he's getting worse.


Really? I mean what if it was absolutely necessary? I heard about people doing it in concentration camps, etc. Could you link me to that thread, please. I tried searching a few things but nothing came up at all. If you could go through the trouble it would be much appreciated.

----------


## crashdive123

Evan - here's a thread where it was discussed.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...drinking+urine

----------


## Sarge47

> Really? I mean what if it was absolutely necessary? I heard about people doing it in concentration camps, etc. Could you link me to that thread, please. I tried searching a few things but nothing came up at all. If you could go through the trouble it would be much appreciated.


Evan, Bear Gryls probably isn't really drinking it.  I'm a magician & we fool people into thinking we do all kinds of crazy crap!  Check out the US Army Survival Manual on the home page pf this website!  I believe it's chapter 6, it's the chapter on finding water. :Cool2:

----------


## SARKY

Yeah at the beginning of the man vs. wild show it says something about it being pretty fake( I forget what it says). I even read an article about him and his crew sleeping in a hotel during a survival week. But you do have to give it to him for eating a nut out of bear feces and drinking his own urine.

So Bear is a turd burglar the ham burglar will be so happy that he doesn't have any competition

----------


## hoosierarcher

The information Bear Gryls provides is real and he is a better hunter/trapper/fisherman than Les at least they show more killing. Les, in fact most survival instructors claim eating is lowest on the hierarchy of needs. Howev er how often does Les complain about how hard it is to do everything he is doing(filming as well as surviving) with low blood sugar and an empty stomach. I know Les grew up hunting. But even on the one show he had a rifle with him he couldn't kill even a rabbit. On Man v Wild what the disclaimer says is that undeer the worst conditions Bear often doesn't spend the night out in the bush in the shelters he makes. But that was after the grizzly bear scare in Sierras when he was in a debris shelter. I think it was forced on him by the producers and insurance company. He was in The British Special Forces. Both have their good points. BUT I'd have to give Les the edge simply because he doesn't do the stuntman bit and take unacceptable risks to accomplish things.

----------


## Tony uk

> The information Bear Gryls provides is real and he is a better hunter/trapper/fisherman than Les at least they show more killing. Les, in fact most survival instructors claim eating is lowest on the hierarchy of needs. Howev er how often does Les complain about how hard it is to do everything he is doing(filming as well as surviving) with low blood sugar and an empty stomach. I know Les grew up hunting. But even on the one show he had a rifle with him he couldn't kill even a rabbit. On Man v Wild what the disclaimer says is that undeer the worst conditions Bear often doesn't spend the night out in the bush in the shelters he makes. But that was after the grizzly bear scare in Sierras when he was in a debris shelter. I think it was forced on him by the producers and insurance company. *He was in The British Special Forces.* Both have their good points. BUT I'd have to give Les the edge simply because he doesn't do the stuntman bit and take unacceptable risks to accomplish things.


Just my thoughts, He was (at least im sure) a soldier is the TA SAS, while this is special forces, the soldiers do not recieve any alrge ammount of survival training, more of just an intraduction to combat survival. This would bring them into line with most of the british regular army. This is what led me to always belive that he is just useing this tag for advertiseing reasons, instead of a really reason why he claims to know survival skills.

_source:-_ A mate of mine who currently serves in the armed forces.

----------


## endurance

Everytime I've seen Bear eating meat from anything larger than a rat it was something he "found" dead in the wild that he miraculously needs just 10 minutes later.  I've been hiking for decades and can't remember the last time I came across something freshly dead that I'd be willing to eat from it.  It's clearly staged.  

I still enjoy it, but it's more as appreciation of his stunts than thinking I could actually learn something useful like I frequently did with Les.

----------


## crashdive123

Regardless of where you fall in the love em, hate em camp - the network is getting exactly what they want - people are always talking about it.

----------


## lucznik

> The information Bear Gryls provides is real... On Man v Wild what the disclaimer says is that undeer the worst conditions Bear often doesn't spend the night out in the bush in the shelters he makes. But that was after the grizzly bear scare in Sierras when he was in a debris shelter. I think it was forced on him by the producers and insurance company. He was in The British Special Forces. Both have their good points. BUT I'd have to give Les the edge simply because he doesn't do the stuntman bit and take unacceptable risks to accomplish things.


This is not what the disclaimer states.  *There was no "grizzly bear scare"* (see below), and Edward has only ever claimed that he was "forced by the producers" to wear a life vest while floating down a set of white-water rapids, after which incident he claims he subsequently insisted on doing all stunts without such gear and "on [his] own terms."  Some of his "fishing" has been accomplished by planting farm-bred fish into pools for him to catch and many of the animals he has "hunted" were provided for him and staged to make it look like his hunting had been successful. As to the information being "real..."  Well, you must have a different definition of the word "real" than I. 





> Man vs. Wild / Born Survivor has been criticized by outdoor enthusiasts for fabricating some of the situations Bear finds himself in. They contend that Bear misleads his viewers and gives the impression that he is alone in the wild, when this has never been the case. Critics allege that Bear rarely puts himself in excessive harm's way, and that he is occasionally assisted by members of the production crew if needed.
> 
> In 2006 it was revealed that Born Survivor misled viewers into believing that Grylls was stranded in the wild alone when he was not and Channel 4 temporarily suspended the show for a few weeks. Discovery and Channel 4 then aired reedited episodes, removing elements that were too planned, with a fresh voice-over and a preceding announcement pointing out that some situations are 'presented to Bear to show the viewer how to survive'. Discovery and Channel 4 have continued to broadcast the program.
> 
> Grylls was shown trying to ride "wild" horses that were clearly well brushed and appeared to have horseshoes. In another episode Bear claims to be crossing an unstable lava bridge, when in reality the area is part of a national park and is within some distance of a road. Similarly, it was revealed that Grylls stayed at a crew base-camp in the Costa Rican jungle, while giving viewers the impression that he was alone. There have been several other incidents, including the impression Grylls built a raft "in a matter of hours with no tools". According to the adviser, the raft was actually in part built by a show stunt consultant. This episode implied it was filmed on a small South Pacific island, which Channel 4 admitted was actually a peninsula in Hawaii, the scene of Hollywood movie shoots. These incidents were confirmed by Channel 4, who argued that it was not a documentary, but a "how-to" guide to survival, implying that staged scenes were acceptable in that context





> In one episode filmed in California's Sierra Nevada mountains he was shown biting off the head of a snake for breakfast and boasting that he was living on 'just a water bottle, a cup and a flint for making fire'. Viewers were not told that he was actually spending some nights in the Pines Resort hotel at Bass Lake, where the rooms have Internet access and is advertised as 'a cosy getaway for families' complete with blueberry pancakes for breakfast.
> 
> In another episode when Grylls declared he was a 'real life Robinson Crusoe' stuck on a desert island, he was actually on an outlying part of the Hawaiian archipelago and retired to a motel at nightfall.
> 
> Mark Weinert, a survival consultant brought in for the programme, said one show also wrongly gave the impression that the adventurer built a Polynesian- style raft using only materials around him, including bamboo and palm leaves for a sail. Mr Weinert had in fact led a team that built the raft, which was then dismantled so that Grylls could be shown constructing it on camera.
> 
> In another episode, Grylls was filmed attempting to lasso 'wild' mustang in the Sierra Nevada, when the horses were actually tame and had been brought in by trailer from a nearby trekking station.
> 
> 'If you really believe everything happens the way it is shown on TV, you are being a little bit naive,' Mr Weinert told the Sunday Times.






> Grylls has stated numerous times on camera that he is not to receive any assistance unless his life is in danger. However, in July 2007 it was reported in the mainstream media that at least portions of some episodes were staged and that Bear did not always survive without help. One of the more serious allegations is that while Grylls claimed to be sleeping outdoors, he was allegedly sleeping in hotels (although on Jimmy Kimmel Live, before the accusations came out, Bear stated that only the cameramen were flown out at night). The Discovery Channel said that future airings would be edited to reflect such things.
> 
> Other reported instances of outside influence or staged situations include the following:
> 
> Grylls admitted wearing a flotation device in the pilot episode to ride down a river in a staged shot, citing safety reasons. He claimed that he was displeased with the decision, which came from Discovery producers, and has since been able to avoid the use of such devices.
> 
> The director of the Desert Island episode, Graham Strong, noted that a diver was at hand who checked for sharks while Bear was adrift (he did not spot the tigers, only reef sharks), and that “we” beat on the raft to scare the tiger sharks away. Also, in the Copper Canyon, Mexico episode, director Scott Tankard says that the local Indian tribe, the Rarámuri Indians, acted as their guides.
> 
> According to the survival consultant for the show’s Sierra Nevada and Desert Island episodes, Mark Wienart of Lifesong Adventures, the “wild” horses in the Sierra Nevada episode were shipped in for a choreographed feature.
> ...

----------


## lucznik

Don't know if this has been reported here yet but I found this on Backpacker Magazine's website: http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/daily_dirt/562




> Survivorman Calls It Quits 
> Les stroud plans to end successful Discovery Channel show after forthcoming third season 
> 
> Somewhere, perhaps in a four-star hotel while eating chocolate cherries and sipping champagne, Bear Grylls is breathing a sigh of relief: His primary media rival, Les Stroud of the Discovery Channel's popular Survivorman series, has announced he plans to hang up his cameras and end the show after the upcoming third season.
> 
> "It takes a lot out of me as I really do what I do for real, with no camera crew, no nights in hotels like others do, and it takes a toll on my body," Stroud told Reuters.
> 
> "You can only do seven days surviving without food a certain number of times a year. I'm pleased with what I have done, I've been copied around the world, but 25 times I've not eaten anything for a week while sleeping on rocks. I need to move on."
> 
> Sad news for TV survival junkies, to be sure, but all is not lost: Stroud plans to return with a series where he follows in the footsteps of famous explorers.

----------


## sgtdraino

> Don't know if this has been reported here yet but I found this on Backpacker Magazine's website: http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/daily_dirt/562


Oh yeah. His final episode already aired, and Les looked really miserable the whole time. He had the squirts all that week.

----------


## lucznik

I picked up a copy of Men's Journal today at the grocery store because it has a feature article about Edward.  The article is mostly fluff, trying to make Edward appear as "larger than life" as possible by listing some of his accomplishments - even ones that are under suspicion as being falsified - for example his claim to have "flown a motorized parasail as high as Everest's summit," a feat that cannot be validated because his altimeter mysteriously stopped working during the flight.  

The article mentions that his program "reaches a million viewers in the United States," which seems kind of low to me.  I would have expected it to be quite a bit higher.  It also mentions that he is "tailed in the bush by a cameraman and sound engineer."  Oddly though, it fails to mention the 6-9 other guys that are with him throughout his adventures - which can be seen on the "behind the scenes" exerpts available on Discovery Channels website. That seems like a strange ommision to me.

He talks briefly about the controversy surrounding his shows authenticity and states, "Since the controversy, if I ever have any safety protection, I now have to acknowledge it.  I think it's crap always having to say it, so I am actually doing more free climbs."  I actually agree with him that, under normal circumstances, he shouldh't have to mention safety gear everytime it's used.  The problem is that it was his own choice to mislead viewers, not by simply not acknowledging safety precautions that were taken, but by literally trying to hide them so as to present an image that they were never used in the first place.  Now he has to pay the price.  Actually, if he (figuratively speaking) had done "more free climbs" from the beginning, it might never have become a problem.

I think the article sums up Edward quite well when it says "what's truly remarkable about Grylls isn't his 'bushcraft,' but the way he has used the series as a vehicle to take all these amazing trips.  He has improvised an insanely great life for himself."  I think they're right.  Like him or hate him, you've got to admire the fact that the guy does for a (very well-paid) living the kinds of things most of us slave away every year at work to be able to afford to merely approximate during our brief "vacations."

----------


## Sarge47

Okay folks, at last count this thread had 689 posts & over 59,250 views!  So here's the results in a nutshell!

Les good, Bear Bad!  Bear drinks pee; eats poo!  Les does not!  Bear has a cute tush for a soldier...I mean that in a "nice" way!  Les plays a "mean Harp!"  Les takes lots of gear & carries all of his own camera gear while Bear only carries a canteen full of pee & a $700 autographed knife you can buy from Bailey's in England.  His Cameraman, sound man, Key Grip, and stage hands carry a lot more...but Les doesn't need it 'cuz the Ramada Inn has everything! :Innocent:   Les shows you how to Survive while Bear shows you how to "fake it 'till you make it!"  Finally the poll at the top of the page shows Les wins by 90% to 10%...even a cute tush couldn't save Grylli's hiney! :Cool2:

----------


## lucznik

> Les plays a "mean Harp!"


 Doesn't he play a harmonica?  I think a harp would be a real b!+(# to try to pack around.  They're heavy!! :Big Grin:

----------


## Sarge47

> Doesn't he play a harmonica?  I think a harp would be a real b!+(# to try to pack around.  They're heavy!!


1st, I didn't say he took it along with him, just that he played one, however there is a difference between a harmonica & a "Blues Harp".  Go down to your local music store owner & have them explain the difference to you! :Innocent:

----------


## crashdive123

Ummmm, mouth harp.....yeah, harmonica

----------


## lucznik

> 1st, I didn't say he took it along with him, just that he played one, however there is a difference between a harmonica & a "Blues Harp".  Go down to your local music store owner & have them explain the difference to you!


  There isn't a "local" music store for more than 150 miles from me.  I'll just take your word for it.

----------


## Rick

I usually play air harp. If you want something tough to pack along, try a Macy's Organ. Now, there's a BIG instrument. 

Lucznik - The next block, 150 miles. It's all relative.

----------


## Okwaho

Bear Grylls knows just as much what he's doing as Les Stroud does. I like both shows for different reasons. Survivorman is more realistic and enjoying. Man vs. Wild is more educational and easier to understand. Both are great shows.

----------


## Sarge47

> Bear Grylls knows just as much what he's doing as Les Stroud does. I like both shows for different reasons. Survivorman is more realistic and enjoying. Man vs. Wild is more educational and easier to understand. Both are great shows.


So you think it's Ok to drink urine right out of the bladder?  Hey, I've got a watch I want to sell you! :Innocent:

----------


## Rick

> Man vs. Wild is more educational and easier to understand.


Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## wizardslovak

i like to watch both but i think Les Strout is showing more "reall" stuff which can be used

----------


## Kemperor

I didn't read all of the replies on this thread, but you all should check out Les's book, "Survive!" It's a good read. Kind of left out what to do in a tornado, though, but I doubt he's had too much experience there.

----------


## tennecedar

Les Stroud to host a new survival show on cartoon network involving kids. 

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...goryid=14&cs=1

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...bb839152cb9e4a

----------


## bindlestitch

I'll take Ray Mears please. :Big Grin:

----------


## sgtdraino

> I didn't read all of the replies on this thread, but you all should check out Les's book, "Survive!" It's a good read. Kind of left out what to do in a tornado, though, but I doubt he's had too much experience there.


Well, it's tricky to locate a tornado that lasts for a whole seven days, so Les can do his thing.  :Wink:

----------


## Aurelius95

Apparently, Will Ferrell is going to star on an episode of Man vs. Wild that airs in June.  It coincides with the release of his movie "Land of the Lost".

http://tv.msn.com/man-vs-wid-ferrell...ure/?gt1=28130

I have stopped watching Bear Grylls, but I will probably check out this episode!

----------


## crashdive123

Looks like another pee drinking party.

----------


## KimmyHead

Love Survivorman watch it everyday love to learn from his mistakes

----------


## WillDeerborn

I'm with everyone who likes Survivorman...I saw the one where Bear eats the "****berries" from a heap of bear offal. He shows all this extreme stuff that ain't necessary. Les is more down to earth and does everything practically...Bear Grylls is an idiot and I refuse to watch him...I think he's a dumbass...And you can quote me.

----------


## Sarge47

> I'm with everyone who likes Survivorman...I saw the one where Bear eats the "****berries" from a heap of bear offal. He shows all this extreme stuff that ain't necessary. Les is more down to earth and does everything practically...Bear Grylls is an idiot and I refuse to watch him...I think he's a dumbass...And you can quote me.


So why don't you mount up yer 'ole hoss & mosey on over to the intro section & tell us all about yerself? :Cool2:

----------


## mountain mama

WillDeerborn, here's the link: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14
We just like to know a lil' about those who care to grace us with their presence  :Big Grin:

----------


## Schleprok

Survivorman gets my vote, no question. But I agree, they don't show enough on basics. He does let you know that the crew will come back and clean up whatever mess was made. I enjoy the different scenarios they set up, which are helpful. Planecrash, motorcycle broke in the desert, etc. Plus the crew "gives" Les some items occassionally.

We can all pick up a tidbit or two, here or there on either show. Even Bear Grylls shows us what not to do, and how to recover if you do it anyway. Mostly they are good entertainment (like tv wrestling). Man vs Wild is more active. Survivorman can be boring to some, but in a survival situation the younguns need to know that the trap is usually empty, and that the deadfall may land on your hand when your trying to set it and haven't eaten in days, etc...

----------


## oneraindog

> I'll take Ray Mears please.


ditto that one. ******* mears is cool. hes what bear and les wish they were with a touch of james bond. hes so smooth.

anyway i have to admit i was not able to make it through all 36 pages of this discussion (haha holy moly people) but i must say lesis may favorite of the two. ive read his book survive! and it was really good. it goes more in depth than the show can on some things like the psychology of survival and coping mechanisms etc. also his writting style is very conversational while still being informative. not to turn this into a book review but it just said a lot more about where hes coming from and that he has a sincere interest in peoples education.

bear just seams liek a show boater and he has the rugged good looks that makes for good TV celebrity.
i can name half a dozen guys making youtube videos that are probably just as wilderness capable but lack the charisma/cult of personality.

that my newbie opinion anyway :0

----------


## sgtdraino

What is a ray mears, and does it really know what it's doing? Never heard of it.

----------


## crashdive123

> What is a ray mears, and does it really know what it's doing? Never heard of it.


Here ya go.  http://www.raymears.com/

He also has quite a few videos posted on You Tube - they're worth checking out.

----------


## beargryllsadvocate

Man vs. Wild & Survivorman are 2 different shows and shouldn't be compared head-to-head, but they do have some similarities. However, they are both outstanding in representing survival skills.  Bear has more technical climbing skills and more, but both TV hosts are very qualified and entertaining to watch.  I do see more humor with BG- especially incorporating Will Ferrell in Men vs. Wild show-June 2 10pm EST. 

Anyhow...

Bear Grylls fans and advocates....something I've been working on and it's still in the works. Website is dedicated to the personal stories of Bear Grylls Advocates (BGA)- ordinary people inspired by Bear Grylls to go the EXTRA mile to survive, live healthy, and become Extraordinary! Visit- 

*************** 

Stay tuned.....

Mark

----------


## Ken

[url=http://www.freesmileys.org]Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Ken

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.Bear Grylls

----------


## crashdive123

Hey beargryllsadvocate - I edited your post.  You cannot post a link to your site in the body of your posts - Thanks in advance for understanding.  Why not hike over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself.  Thanks.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

----------


## crashdive123

Now, now Ken.....play nice till you get to know folks.

----------


## BAKWOODS

bear grylls is a tosser but you cant say hes not entertaining.
i havent seen survivorman but i have seen ray mears,he knows what he is doing but hes like watching paint dry.thats boring .at least you get a laugh out of bear. :clap: 
he has got alot of guts though, flying a paraglider over everest.like to see ray mears or less stoud do that

----------


## Mischief

I am with Ken,must be the brotherhood of Quality

----------


## rphillips1986

I prefer Survivorman. He earned major brownie points with me in one eppisode when he said that because this is a TV show, with the cameras and the knowlage he will be rescued, he can't portray a lot of the phycological and emotional effects of the situations he is trying to immitate. He also has a real background in survival, having written books and taught classes prior to the show.

----------


## jrock24

My 6 y/o boy seen the commercial for Les' new show and got all excited. We made plans to watch it together this weekend when it plays.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

my daughter is too young to be interested, but i am going to watch it also.

----------


## patriot

i heard that bear had a stunt person do all of the survival stuff while he sat in a warm hotel room.

----------


## endurance

I'm still not a Bear fan, but you have to give the guy at least partial credit on this one:

TV Show Helps Utah Boy Survive Night Solo In Woods




> (AP)  When he realized he'd been separated from his family on a weekend hike in a northern Utah forest, 9-year-old Grayson Wynne's thoughts turned to television.
> 
> Grayson watches "Man vs. Wild" on the Discovery Channel every week with his brothers and his dad. On the show, host and adventurer Bear Grylls strands himself in the wilderness and then shows viewers how to survive the sticky situations.
> 
> That's where Grayson says he learned to leave clues behind to help searchers find him.
> 
> On Saturday, when he was scared and alone in the Ashley National Forest, Grayson started tearing up his yellow rain slicker, despite the intermittent downpours, and tying pieces to trees.
> 
> "I just used my hands," said Grayson, who was found safe Sunday after spending 18 hours lost in the forest. "I don't know how many times I tore the thing but quite a lot."
> ...


I think that last line says it all.  Just knowing you can endure great hardship makes a big difference in your likelihood of survival.  That's why I love the book The Long Walk. :Thumbup:

----------


## Sarge47

I've posted this in it's own thread.  Let's just hope the kid didn't try to drink his own urine! :Innocent:

----------


## Grant H

Bear Grylls= Survivorman Lite.

----------


## Sarge47

> Bear Grylls= Survivorman Lite.


Grant, methinks you're gonna fit in quite well here!  :Online2long:

----------


## Tundrascout

I lost all interest in survivorman when he shot an episode on surviving an avalanche.  The avalanche experts were trying to explain something to him and he cut them off on camera and began explaining the same thing to the camera - pretty much repeating them verbatim.  Pretty rude in person I am sure.

I'm not a big fan of Will Ferrel, but the episode he was on with Bear was highly entertaining.

To me, both shows are entertainment with some ideas tossed in on survival tactics, but each situation warrants a re-evaluation of what is needed.  (if you were just attacked by a bear, bleeding profusely despite your aid kit and probably going to die if you dont get attention quickly, it might make more sense to slide down the side of a mountain with a stick then to try to walk down.)

----------


## sgtdraino

> I lost all interest in survivorman when he shot an episode on surviving an avalanche.  The avalanche experts were trying to explain something to him and he cut them off on camera and began explaining the same thing to the camera - pretty much repeating them verbatim.  Pretty rude in person I am sure.


??? I thought I'd seen every episode, and this doesn't ring any bells at all with me. Anybody else remember such a thing?

----------


## tonester

> ??? I thought I'd seen every episode, and this doesn't ring any bells at all with me. Anybody else remember such a thing?


yah will ferrel did a special with bear, it was called men vs wild. i think it was to promote ferrels new movie land of the lost. they just showed it again tonight.

----------


## Jiujitman

It is always funny to me that Bear just happens to find a Moose head laying in the snow, a dead camel for food and shelter, a dead sheep for food and shelter, there was something else dead he found but I forgot...Is this just a coincidence? Think not.

On another note, les did a show not too far from where I live. It was a show about swamp survival in the Altamaha river/swamps. He actually built a turtle trap, ate the turtle, killed a rattlesnake, ate the snake and then built a raft and paddled to safety. Finding your way out of those swamps in the Altamahe or Satilla can be SCARY (he was blindfolded when they dropped him off)! I got lost on the river one night with nothing but a paddle and a canoe-talk about scary!!

----------


## KenB

Every time I see that jack *** Bear I hope that _Wild_ wins.

----------


## rwc1969

His new episode was on last night. "He?" "caught?" a Caribou and apparently gutted it without rupturing the ponch. Amazing! He then proceeded to drag it thru knee deep snow just to eventually dump it in the river. what a waste!

I saw the real Survivorman had a show on Cartoon network, but it may have been cancelled. Would sure like to see more real survival shows on air.

----------


## Ken

> It is always funny to me that Bear just happens to find a Moose head laying in the snow, a dead camel for food and shelter, a dead sheep for food and shelter, there was something else dead he found but I forgot...


Here ya' go, Bear!  Food and shelter........   :Innocent: 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Rick

Oh, look! My ban button is sitting under my chair. Oh, oh. Looks like the legs are about to give out under the strain!

----------


## 2dumb2kwit

> Oh, look! My ban button is sitting under my chair. Oh, oh. Looks like the legs are about to give out under the strain!


 Yeah! Ban him! You don't have to take his abuse! :Smash:  :Sneaky2:  :Innocent:

----------


## Rick

> You know....game kinda has the taste of what it has been eating, so one of these should taste kinda like......Twinkies!


Even if you delete it, I can still read it. Now...who did you want banned?

----------


## 2dumb2kwit

> Even if you delete it, I can still read it. Now...who did you want banned?


 Just because *YOU* can read it, doesn't mean that you can't play along! (Sheeez......how many lobsters did Ken send this guy?)    :Innocent:

----------


## Ken

> Even if you delete it, I can still read it. Now...who did you want banned?


Rick, 2dumb just e-mailed this picture that he claims is you sitting on your chair.  That's not you, is it?   :Innocent: 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## finallyME

> I'm still not a Bear fan, but you have to give the guy at least partial credit on this one:
> 
> TV Show Helps Utah Boy Survive Night Solo In Woods
> 
> 
> I think that last line says it all.  Just knowing you can endure great hardship makes a big difference in your likelihood of survival.  That's why I love the book The Long Walk.


That kid is another reason why you don't listen to Bear for advice on survival.  The kid did almost everything wrong, and luckily was saved.  He would have been saved much sooner had he followed the advice of Les.  Sure, I like Bear for entertainment.  In almost every episode he does something stupid.  But, the problem is that other people think he is actually showing good technique.  Of course, when they die, they can't tell the news that they learned it on Man vs Wild.

----------


## finallyME

I put this link on the pee thread.  But it belongs here as well.

Bear Wiki

Bad form with fire bow

Fake rabbit kill

----------


## hunter63

I like them both, and if you see it on the TV it must be true, right?

Any way they both are making good coin doing something that most of us haven't gotten of the couch to do.

----------


## HanoverDan

What they teach is mostly the mind part of the survival world.  

There are many good things that are in each of the programs but they really need to focus on a life situation.

I mean finding your way out.  and teaching the kids to stay put and not move.  Like we teach sit down and cry and yell and bang rocks together and hit sticks together. make noise. 

they dont concentrate on the needs of temporary lost kids in the woods.

Long term survival is great its the ones that lose themselves in the woods just off a trail that need to be taugh.

Survival trainer for the Military for 2 years
SERE
Respect 
Daniel

----------


## HanoverDan

I think and it is solely my opinion that bear is geared more to the military and for long term survival.  Yeah most of the stuff is crazy.  Made strickly for entertainment.  In a long term survival, time is not the problem, it is your enemy, you will have plenty.  Its the time that drives you nuts.  
Survivor guy could be more to the point when it comes to surviving.  These are set for longer times in the field and not geared to lifes instantaneous emergencies.  

I think they should actually start helping the kids that get lost by showing what not to do.  
Survival is learned, not overnight.
Respect
Daniel

----------


## TangoFoxtrot

Without a doubt Les. I think Bear has folded to the Hollywood mentality.

----------


## Survival Guy 10

i think Bear Grylls is an ok show but he is a big risk taker who  down a mountain in a piece of crapp sled made of caribo hide then he dosent even take the hide with and he is in Siberia one of the coldest places in the world

----------


## Rick

Siberia? That must be next door to Teluride. I understand they have some nice hotels there.

----------


## Larec

I have seen both shows and i would say that for purely entertainment value then  Bear's show wins.  For edutainment value then  Les's show wins.

I only watch these shows for entertainment, if i wanted to learn skills then i would join a survival course or study various books.

----------


## red lake

I am watching the show and he is traveling down a mountain river. Firstly it is stupid of him to jump into a river that is fed by melting snow..COLD.

He claims he is using his pack as a PFD, but as you see him in the river you can clearly see there is a PFD under his sweater.

----------


## lucznik

Hey did you guys know that ol' Bear is now writing/publishing a series of survival novels?

Here's some of the info about them:

*Mission: Survival - Way of the Wolf* 
Stranded in Alaska! Beck Granger and his anthropologist uncle are on their way to visit Anakat Village, home to one of the native peoples of Alaska, when their tiny plane crashes in the Alaskan wilderness. With his uncle badly injured and the plane way off its original flight path, Beck realises he can't wait around for rescue. He needs to get help - and fast! Together with his new friend, Tikaani, Beck sets off through bear country and up towards the mountains that block his way to civilisation. Can Beck keep himself and Tikaani alive as they ford a dangerous river, find food to keep their strength up and dig a snow cave in which to weather an ice storm? A tense and exciting struggle for survival with real survival details and gruesome tips!

*Mission Survival: Sands of the Scorpion*
Lost amid the desert sands! When Beck Granger and his friend, Peter, join Beck's Uncle Al for a holiday in Africa, they aren't expecting to find themselves stranded in the Sahara Desert. But when they stumble upon a smuggling ring and have to bail out of a plane over the desert, Beck knows their chances of survival are slim. Somehow they must find their way back to civilisation, but there are snakes, scorpions and the merciless rays of the sun to overcome first! This is a gripping African adventure packed with real survival details and dangers at every turn!

*Mission Survival: Tracks of the Tiger*
Volcano eruption! Beck and his friend are on a relaxing holiday in Borneo, visiting orang-utan sanctuaries and hanging out by the pool. Except that when they spend the afternoon out in the jungle, things take an unexpected turn, and a volcano eruption leaves them stranded and alone. Beck must use all his skills to survive the dangers of the jungles and swamps of Borneo - can he get them to safety alive?

*About the Author*
Bear Grylls was trained by the British SAS. A world-record-breaking adventurer, successful TV presenter and bestselling author, he is also one of the world's youngest and most sought-after motivational speakers. He was recently awarded an honorary commission as a Lieutenant-Commander in the Royal Navy.


Man, I'm gonna have to get me some of them!!!!  I'll bet each and every book includes a vivid description of at least one traditional British pee (oops. I mean tea) party!

----------


## rwc1969

I think i've changed my thinking on Bear. His show is definitely not a true survival show, but it is entertaining.

----------


## Matt86

I remember watching a man vs wild episode..i think it was the texas one...where he was doing parkour style moves to cross a series 4 foot deep and maybe 3 foot wide drop offs...i dont know abour bear but the last thing i want to do in a survival situation is break my ankle or worse...buy hey i might be crazy  :Smile:

----------


## Magpie

Since most of you hate bear grylls. I read a lot of the stuff on that bear wiki site that shows a LOT of stuff he's been caught doing, but there was hardly anything for season 3. I hadn't had the chance to watch season 3 on tv so I got it on dvd and I gotta say, I don't see WHY there isn't more stuff about season 3 because it's almost like they aren't even trying to cover their mistakes anymore. The editing is just plain poor and riddled with inconsistencies. The first episode (can't remember where he was) he gets extremely swollen in the face from a bee sting, the show goes on and the swelling seems to subside, he then "finds" a fresh water source later at the end of the episode and his face is miraculously swollen again! He obviously panicked and decided to make a quick ending scene to his show right after that happened, and they used other footage to fill in the gaps. 
The next episode (I'm watching right now) he wrestles with this alligator he finds, I couldn't help but notice how lifeless this alligator seemed to be when he was "wrestling" with it and the editing taking place at the time was over the top, very chop choppy so that you can't quite make anything out. I think it's obvious what was done here. He also attempts to build a little raft and it quickly sinks, the weather is getting bad and he tries to fix it but it continues to sink, suddenly it's nice weather and it's much more improved and he says something like "I've managed to wait out the storm and reinforce my raft, 3rd time's a charm." It's utterly ridiculous. I've actually laughed out loud at some of the absurdness I've witnessed and I haven't even finished watching the 2nd episode. I thought before that people might have been exaggerating a bit on the things that he's been accused of, but now I think they just had a better production team back then. This is almost unwatchable now, I don't even think they're trying anymore. Haven't watched any of the new seasons because I don't have cable anymore. I think it's kind of like a magic trick, people KNOW better but they like to watch it anyway, why else is it the top rated show on discovery channel?

----------


## Winnie

> Since most of you hate bear grylls. I read a lot of the stuff on that bear wiki site that shows a LOT of stuff he's been caught doing, but there was hardly anything for season 3. I hadn't had the chance to watch season 3 on tv so I got it on dvd and I gotta say, I don't see WHY there isn't more stuff about season 3 because it's almost like they aren't even trying to cover their mistakes anymore. The editing is just plain poor and riddled with inconsistencies. The first episode (can't remember where he was) he gets extremely swollen in the face from a bee sting, the show goes on and the swelling seems to subside, he then "finds" a fresh water source later at the end of the episode and his face is miraculously swollen again! He obviously panicked and decided to make a quick ending scene to his show right after that happened, and they used other footage to fill in the gaps. 
> The next episode (I'm watching right now) he wrestles with this alligator he finds, I couldn't help but notice how lifeless this alligator seemed to be when he was "wrestling" with it and the editing taking place at the time was over the top, very chop choppy so that you can't quite make anything out. I think it's obvious what was done here. He also attempts to build a little raft and it quickly sinks, the weather is getting bad and he tries to fix it but it continues to sink, suddenly it's nice weather and it's much more improved and he says something like "I've managed to wait out the storm and reinforce my raft, 3rd time's a charm." It's utterly ridiculous. I've actually laughed out loud at some of the absurdness I've witnessed and I haven't even finished watching the 2nd episode. I thought before that people might have been exaggerating a bit on the things that he's been accused of, but now I think they just had a better production team back then. This is almost unwatchable now, I don't even think they're trying anymore. Haven't watched any of the new seasons because I don't have cable anymore. I think it's kind of like a magic trick, people KNOW better but they like to watch it anyway, why else is it the top rated show on discovery channel?


It's what?? Good lord, I managed to watch about 10 minutes of the first ever episode and came to the conclusion my Girl Guide handbook was a much better learning tool. I haven't watched anymore, I find it far too embarrasing!

----------


## Rick

Go out to his website and look at how many write in and thank him for the information he shares. They are going out into the wild and use it. Scary stuff. I'm truly surprised someone has been seriously injured doing his goofy stunts and sued him and the production company.

----------


## rwc1969

Now that is scary, Rick. I think bear is showing worst case scenarios. I hope!

----------


## Bushmeat

Im kind of suprised that people that believe they are survivors, Although i do admit that most that want to comment are probably armchair survivors, want to argue who is better out of the 2.

Well for me i can gain knowledge from both, straight up end of deal.

But one, Bear is showing how to get to civilization as quick as possible, Taking the tact it is up to you to get out. 

The Other Les, is showing how to survive in an environment till you get found by outside help.

To take an episode of each that i can relate to and am knowledgeable about, is still hard because they put themselves in totally different environments in Oz.

Les put himself in the Gawler ranges in South Australia (which is not that remote and more than likely he was on a sheep station/Farm) and the made the biggest rookie mistake in the first instance, and made no mention of it on the show. And if his show is informational he failed.
He left the plane. Simple. Doing what he did he did made survival almost impossible but his own responsibility.
In Australia if you get done in the outback, don't matter if its a plane or 4 Wheel Drive, don't leave the vehicle, so much easier to see from the sky.
Thats the first lesson they teach and the number one reason for people perishing in the outback.

On the Other Hand Bear put himself into an actual really remote location that you will probably travel 500 miles in any direction and still not see another human.
But he traverses the environment to get going in the way he thinks he will meet civilization.

At the end of the day they both made mistakes for the environment they were in.

Point im trying to make is its only the human condition that requries one to be better than the other,t i can take from both lessons to be learnt and mistake to avoid.

Im a survivor, i will take any knowledge i can, from any where i can.
I would rather conserve my energy to learning from both that ridiculing either.

And the number one factor to peoples survival in any environment is their mental condition.

All i can say is that there are a lot of people that like to comment with  nothing but their own egotistical ideal that they know best and want to hate one or defend another, this to me is not a survivalist attitude, learn what you can, adapt what you can. 

One Final Question? How many people have spent more than 3 night in the bush (what ever your bush maybe) with only a knife to survive with.
What im asking is can you make these accusations and state YOUR ideas without actually testing yourself.

At the end of the day Knowledge is power and even if i can learn from a tv shows mistakes, *Im Learning*.

----------


## Bushmeat

> I remember watching a man vs wild episode..i think it was the texas one...where he was doing parkour style moves to cross a series 4 foot deep and maybe 3 foot wide drop offs...i dont know abour bear but the last thing i want to do in a survival situation is break my ankle or worse...buy hey i might be crazy



Did you watch this episode with the mute on?

He said it is a practiced move used by different military for moving quickly across broken ground.

You are not practiced at it and as such is not advised. I have used this as a way of moving across rocks and cliffs when fishing, but then again i practice bouldering and other agility movements for crossing ground quickly.

it is a useful skill, if practiced, and you have the fitness to maintain.

unlike the exercise you get from punching youre nubs aimlessly at a keyboard.   :Cool2:

----------


## Ted

To be blunt imo Bears a joke, only saw his show twice and that was two times too many.Les on the other hand I've only seen maybe 5 times and loved it. Only caught him once bs"n.

 He was making a fire, using a bow and drill , everthing was cool till I noticed his fireboard was a perfect piece of 1x3 about 6 inches long. He didn't say he found it , or he brought it along. Sorry but I'm very serious about survival and wouldn't have thought twice about it i he had claimed he found it or took it with him. It was just there.

----------


## Rick

And he might just have overlooked an explanation for it. I cut both a bit of slack in that regard. Like the time that diesel pusher motor home accidentally got in the photo when Bear was lost in the Canadian Rockies. Just an oversight.

----------


## hunter63

It still knocks me out when y'all are cutting up on TV shows, ya know, not real?.........beats the carp out of soaps.

Come on, these guys figured out how to make a bunch of bucks doing fun stuff, instead of working for a living.

Bet their both making a lot more than I do...basically playing.
I enjoy both, realize that it's entertainment, pick out anything I can use, laugh at the rest.
Actually reading all the cut downs is entertaining also, so don't stop on'a'conna me.

----------


## hunter63

Here ya go, now even you can do it!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22591619/U...derness-Living

----------


## madmantrapper

I would not watch either, I find the reality or whatever they're called shows, rediculis.

----------


## klkak

*ridiculous*

----------


## madmantrapper

> *ridiculous*


Yea that's what I meant.

----------


## Sarge47

> It still knocks me out when y'all are cutting up on TV shows, ya know, not real?.........beats the carp out of soaps.  Come on, these guys figured out how to make a bunch of bucks doing fun stuff, instead of working for a living.


 (Here I go, can't help myself!  :Sneaky2: )
So what?  Bear's info can get people hurt or killed!



> Bet their both making a lot more than I do...


So does a "crack dealer," a Hooker, & our esteemed President!  So what?  The old adage "the end justifies the means" doesn't work for me! 




> I enjoy both, realize that it's entertainment, pick out anything I can use, laugh at the rest.


Yes, but you KNOW what's right & what's not!  The Newbies that eat this stuff up are going to find themselves in a lot of trouble!




> Actually reading all the cut downs is entertaining also, so don't stop on'a'conna me.


  No problem!   :Innocent:   :Sneaky2:   :Cool2:

----------


## hunter63

Well, Sarge, it's my opinion and I still stand by it.
I do agree with you and most everyone that it's a bunch of crap, just thought I would present a different point of view.
Your call.

----------


## Sarge47

Alls I'm saying is that these programs are NOT being shown on a regular network, but one that claims to be educational.  Sooner or later we're going to read about some naive young person being rushed to a hospital because they drank their own urine as a result of what they saw "Grylli Vanilli" do!  That may not bother you, but it does me.   :Cool2:

----------


## hunter63

America's Funnies Videos is on a major network.
Sorry, but I can't buy into saving all the stupid ones.
I was just voicing my opinion, as you are, so I guess we agree to disagree?

Possibly your objections should be directed at the educational channels?

----------


## rwc1969

Sarge them there educational networks ain't what they used to be. NatGeo, History, PBS, Discovery, TLC channels are all real good examples of that.

It's not just Bare's show, but all of em.

Everything is hype, blown outta proportion, theory, biased, etc. Not real history or fact but some "BS artist's?" abstract impression of it. It's all designed to get viewers by any means possible and to infuence people's thoughts.

Anyone who relies on those shows as fact is most likely gonna die anyhoo from self inflicted ignorance. I won't blame bare, instead I blame people's idea that TV is reality, or their idea that because someone implies something is fact it must be. Rather than questioning that "authority?" and finding out for ourselves what is fact and what is BS.

Heck, even the books used in school no longer contain facts per se', rather they offer the viewpoint of the author, publisher, etc. on the subject. Books are being written more and more to influence thought rather than to teach the facts and let those facts influence our thoughts.

Everybody wants us to think or act in a way that benefits them or their ideals and will create shows, news stories, and write books that do just that with no consideration for facts, honesty or the safety of the readers and viewers.

----------


## crashdive123

Sometimes the gene pool needs thinning.  Maybe that is why Bear was given a show.

----------


## Trabitha

Man Vs. Wild, while amazingly entertaining...is not as educational as it could be.  I think I watch it from time to time, simply to see if he will barf up whatever poop he's decided to chow down on.  I also have a game of placing bets on how many times he injures himself while barreling down a mountain or swimming across a fast moving river.  
The man is an accident waiting to happen.  The shear irresponsibility of teaching people to be so reckless in the wilderness is baffling. 

Survivor man isn't 100% either, but it's significantly more educational.  While he's never in REAL danger, he teaches some useful lessons and does so without eating poo.  LOL!!

----------


## Camp10

> I also have a game of placing bets on how many times he injures himself while barreling down a mountain or swimming across a fast moving river.  
> The man is an accident waiting to happen.  The shear irresponsibility of teaching people to be so reckless in the wilderness is baffling.


Yeah, I think it is just a matter of time before he does a "Steve Irwin" and then there will finally be some stories about how stupid and irresponsible Bear was..

----------


## rwc1969

I think bares show is losing ratings and will not be on the air too much longer.

----------


## lucznik

I just watched his "Urban Survivor" episode.  I was laughing out loud at the stupidity he engaged in.  One of the funniest parts to me was his location. He said it was an "abandoned urban environment somewhere along the Baltic coast."

Above the building he entered was a sign that said "Gdynia Shipyard" in Polish.  This was so funny because I know EXACTLY where that is - I used to live about 5 or so miles away from that very building.  His "urban wasteland" is dead center in the middle of the "Tri-city" area of Gdańsk, Gdynia, and Sopot - a decidedly not-abandoned area in one of the most beautiful cities in Poland.  He just was in an abandoned building in the warehouse district.  He was never more than 200 yards away from civilization.

----------


## Sarge47

> He was never more than 200 yards away from civilization.


Figures.   :Cool2:

----------


## 2dumb2kwit

I think Hunter and Sarge are both right, but I'm gonna go with crash, on this one......sometimes, you just need to thin the herd! LOL :Innocent: 

(Maybe kids should watch a "reality show".....like Jersey Shore.) :Innocent:

----------


## 2dumb2kwit

> Sometimes the gene pool needs thinning.  Maybe that is why Bear was given a show.


Yep...I think Cliff's Buffalo Theory applies. LOL :Innocent: 




> "Well you see, Norm, it's like this . . . A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. 
> In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Now, as we know, excessive intake of alcohol kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. 
> 
> And that, Norm, is why you always feel smarter after a few beers."

----------


## hunter63

> I just watched his "Urban Survivor" episode.  I was laughing out loud at the stupidity he engaged in.  One of the funniest parts to me was his location. He said it was an "abandoned urban environment somewhere along the Baltic coast."
> 
> Above the building he entered was a sign that said "Gdynia Shipyard" in Polish.  This was so funny because I know EXACTLY where that is - I used to live about 5 or so miles away from that very building.  His "urban wasteland" is dead center in the middle of the "Tri-city" area of Gdańsk, Gdynia, and Sopot - a decidedly not-abandoned area in one of the most beautiful cities in Poland.  He just was in an abandoned building in the warehouse district.  He was never more than 200 yards away from civilization.


I just watched it as well.
I do/as least did, give the guy credit, he comes up with stuff that sells, ........
at least till someone sees it.
I still think it would be cool making money, doing something fun.

I even considered sending in a video to the Survivor program, and volunteer to be the first one voted off, so I could lay around in a cool hotel somewhere on their dime for 38 more days.

*But* I gotta tell ya, that had to be the dumbest thing I ever saw, even worst than The Apocalypse guy one.
This one reminded me of vandals breaking in to factories.

The factory I used to work at was closed, and looked kinda like the one he was in. 
Had vandals breaking in all the time.
Couple guys broke into the substation and got fried pretty good, so were suing the company as the fence wasn't good enough to keep them out.

----------


## trax

> Everything is hype, blown outta proportion, theory, biased, etc. Not real history or fact but some "BS artist's?" abstract impression of it. It's all designed to get viewers by any means possible and to infuence people's thoughts.


Kind of like the public education system when you put it that way.

----------


## lucznik

> The factory I used to work at was closed, and looked kinda like the one he was in. 
> Had vandals breaking in all the time.
> Couple guys broke into the substation and got fried pretty good, so were suing the company as the fence wasn't good enough to keep them out.


That sounds about like par for the course.  

My sons and I watch ol' Bear and I let them point out what they think are his mistakes and stupidities.  We then discuss what Bear could/should have done that would have been safer, smarter, and more effective. I have to say, they're mighty adept boys. Makes a dad proud.

So, I guess I do have to give Bear some credit.  His show has proven a good catalyst for some very interesting and educational discussions in my house.

----------


## Sarge47

Here's my idea for the next "Numpty...er...I mean..."Man vs. Wild" episode.  Bear has to survive in South Central, in East L.A. wearing the wrong gang colors.  The rest of us get to bet on how long  it takes for the "bangers" to shove that expensive knife up his cute little tush!   :Innocent:

----------


## Rick

All righty then. There's three words I never expected to hear from you in the same sentence....Bear.....cute......tush. 

I'll be backing out of here now.

----------


## hunter63

Yeah, what the???.........
Never mind.

----------


## Wise Old Owl

Well the fun is over after Les Stroud's New Orleans survival show, he hung it up and took the proceeds to build a log cabin off grid somewhere in the USA. 

Bear is still making shows.

----------


## Old GI

Just saw on another forum site that on one of his (recent?) shows, that Bear gave himself an enema to ingest non-potable water while riding on a raft.  Anybody see such a thing?  If it's true, it's no surprise. :clap:

----------


## lucznik

It was played as a rerun last night on Discovery so; it is definitely true.  It wasn't just "non-potable" water either.  It was water contaminated with bird feces. 

Nasty.

I didn't let my kids watch that part.  Too vile.

----------


## Rick

What a load of crap.

----------


## Ted

Well he certainly needs a enema...he's so full o's**t!

----------


## Rick

I think that's what I said.

----------


## Old GI

All the enemas in the world and he'd still be FOS.

----------


## Rick

Since Les and quite the Survivorman series and no one likes Bear (NO ONE!) I'm going to nominate these brothers to kick off a new series in survival reality shows. I think they have a lot to contribute. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsgVspgy184

----------


## hunter63

Take off, hey, the The Mckenzie Brothers, you hoser, eh.
The 12 days of Christmas is hilarious.
http://www.beerinfo.com/index.php/pa...christmas.html

----------


## SurvivalFaith

don't forget Ray Mears guys  :Smile:  
some of the videos can be viewed on this site :
http://survivalvideo.blogspot.com/se...rvival%20Video

----------


## Sarge47

> don't forget Ray Mears guys  
> some of the videos can be viewed on this site :
> http://survivalvideo.blogspot.com/se...rvival%20Video


I don't like him.  Besides, this thread is dedicated to Bear & Les.   :Offtopic:

----------


## mule100

first off i'm new here so hi to everyone, 2nd heres 2 links read them and then if anyones still in dout how big a fraud Bear is explane why he stays in a hotel at the end of a days filming also he should of shown us how to survive with a busted shoulder.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7304617.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...lls-antarctica
i did my survivle with the british forces and they teach you not to take any risks if you hurt yourself it is harder to live! the stuff bear does is just for show! and why does he have to talk like that?

Ian

----------


## crashdive123

Hey there Ian.  How about finding your way on over to the Introduction Section and tell us a bit about yourself.  Thanks. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

----------


## Rick

I edited your post. One of the rules is PG-13. We do have kids on here. Thanks!!

----------


## mule100

my apologies

----------


## Justin Case

How can anyone call them Phonies ?  It is what it is,,  There is no doubt that they are doing what you see them do ?  So what if he didnt actually sleep out in the bush,,   I wouldn't either,,If I didnt have too..  He DOES show himself eating some disgusting stuff,,  cant take that away from him,,  I have learned a lot of stuff watching both those shows,,    :Smile:

----------


## Sarge47

> How can anyone call them Phonies ?  It is what it is,,  There is no doubt that they are doing what you see them do ?  So what if he didnt actually sleep out in the bush,,   I wouldn't either,,If I didnt have too..  He DOES show himself eating some disgusting stuff,,  cant take that away from him,,  I have learned a lot of stuff watching both those shows,,


I ususlly call them phonies when they tell lies as a rule.  Just sayin'... :Smash:

----------


## mule100

i agree he eats stuff that would make a Billy goat puke but theres more to survivle than eating grap, jumping off cliffs and running round like a mad man!
its better to take your time and think about what your doing NOT show boating in front of the cameras 
do you see Les Hiddins, Ray Mears, les Stroud or anyone else acting like him NO! its so easy for things to go wrong why risk making thing worse! Bear fell and broke his shoulder and got air lifted out if it was a real survivle situation he'd would of died...!!!

Ian

----------


## Justin Case

> i agree he eats stuff that would make a Billy goat puke but theres more to survivle than eating grap, jumping off cliffs and running round like a mad man!
> its better to take your time and think about what your doing NOT show boating in front of the cameras 
> do you see Les Hiddins, Ray Mears, les Stroud or anyone else acting like him NO! its so easy for things to go wrong why risk making thing worse! Bear fell and broke his shoulder and got air lifted out if it was a real survivle situation he'd would of died...!!!
> 
> Ian


Because it keeps him on TV ,,  Simple,,   BTW,,  Man vs Wild is NOT a REAL Situation ,,  Of course he got airlifted out,  He is a Celebrity,  Its A TV Show  :Smash:

----------


## crashdive123

> How can anyone call them Phonies ?  It is what it is,,  There is no doubt that they are doing what you see them do ?  So what if he didnt actually sleep out in the bush,,   I wouldn't either,,If I didnt have too..  He DOES show himself eating some disgusting stuff,,  cant take that away from him,,  I have learned a lot of stuff watching both those shows,,


Here's one for you that is IMO something that qualifies as phony and exceedingly dangerous to the viewer that may attempt it some day because they saw Bear do it.

Jumping in the water with a small day pack for floation and traversing rapids.  It turns out that he was wearing a floation jacket beneath his clothing.  He did not disclose this.

What say you?

----------


## Rick

Check out YouTube for Bears escapade into the lava fields. You'll see he was right off the highway.

----------


## Alaskan Survivalist

The question was who is the better survivor. Analizing this strictly from the skills exhibited I voted for Bear Grylles. He would not do that stuff if he were not getting paid to do it. Just giving the people what they want.

----------


## Justin Case

> Here's one for you that is IMO something that qualifies as phony and exceedingly dangerous to the viewer that may attempt it some day because they saw Bear do it.
> 
> Jumping in the water with a small day pack for floation and traversing rapids.  It turns out that he was wearing a floation jacket beneath his clothing.  He did not disclose this.
> 
> What say you?


Oh,  well thats not good,,  I do think there should be a better disclosure at the beginning of every show,,  There is too much sensationalism ,,  But he does keep me entertained,,

----------


## Justin Case

> The question was who is the better survivor. Analizing this strictly from the skills exhibited I voted for Bear Grylles. He would not do that stuff if he were not getting paid to do it. Just giving the people what they want.


I am going with Les Stroud,,  Mainly Because he did this,,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_fteTJQ_Q

----------


## wareagle69

i have stayed out of this debate thus far but after the evnts of this week something occured to me.
Les often says that he is doing this show to help the ordinary man, and thats what he claims to be just a guy in the bush, but yet this week at least two ontario survival instructors claimed to have trained les, what they should be saying is that les trained with them for a time, les has trained with allen also and with many many local survival consultants, how many of us can do that when travelling,? spend 48 hrs or so with a local expert to help out trip.
what any show does is the interesting stuff, to get ratings, yes i know better than to just jump off of a cliff, but some may not, but still i have taken useful info from bear and from les even if someone was proven to be a fake and total liar but had good info on the show, would you just discount that technique because of it?
 I am sure all the haters on here have watched every episode of both boys and critiqued the show, i know i have, but still i have learned from both, both of them have gotten rich off of fools like us and so will the next guy to come along(watch for my show airing this fall)
WE

----------


## lucznik

> ...two ontario survival instructors claimed to have trained les, what they should be saying is that les trained with them for a time...


Les did a "behind the scenes" special about 2 years (?) back where he openly showed exactly what you are describing.

According to the episode, Les would go in a few days before his shoot to scout out an appropriate location and to train with local experts so as to know what things he might show when out on his own.  

I don't have a problem with that.  I wouldn't have a problem with Bear doing it either.  There really is no possible way one man is going to know enough to deal with every possible environment on earth without some expert instruction.  The difference is that, after being given some local knowledge, Les went out alone and tried what he had learned.  Sometimes he failed, and he showed that too. As long as the skills being shown are real, are shown without trick angles, with no hidden safety nets, and are basically honest in their portrayal (i.e don't present a scenario that the host is staying the night in the wild when in reality he is in a hotel sucking down mini-bottles; don't claim he is wading through miles of sewers trying to "find a way back to civilization" when he's never been more than a football field away from a busy thoroughfare, etc.) I'm O.K. with the realities inherent with making and producing a TV show.

----------


## billdawg

http://www.backpacker.com/suvivorman...aily_dirt/1691

Interesting. The guy seemed to have some decent tools with him, apparently, he didn't do soemthign right.  Too bad, but, just watching a couple shows, doesn't make you ready.

----------


## lucznik

> http://www.backpacker.com/suvivorman...aily_dirt/1691
> 
> Interesting. The guy seemed to have some decent tools with him, apparently, he didn't do soemthign right.  Too bad, but, just watching a couple shows, doesn't make you ready.


That really is too bad.  I'm sorry this happened to him.

However, although anecdotal and not statistically valid, this event does help illustrate the danger of "training" for survival by watching videos and/or reading books - regardless of who produces/publishes them. 

Although I know this represents a bit of "preaching to the choir" I thought I would just add the thought here that anyone who is really serious about developing true "wilderness survival" skills needs to:

1.  "Perfect" skills at home and on short trips in the Summer months when the weather isn't so deadly before venturing out into the true wilderness. However, even then, one needs to realize that when they are actually "in the field" things will be very different than they were at home.
2.  Always travel with an experienced companion until such time as they can readily demonstrate their abilities before ever soloing - especially in the winter.
3.  Practice with the safety net of a full camp setup readily available, again until they can readily demonstrate their abilities before trying to venture out on a true minimalist survival camp.

Crawl before walking.  Walk before running.

----------


## Theluciddreamers

> first off i'm new here so hi to everyone, 2nd heres 2 links read them and then if anyones still in dout how big a fraud Bear is explane why he stays in a hotel at the end of a days filming also he should of shown us how to survive with a busted shoulder.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7304617.stm
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...lls-antarctica
> i did my survivle with the british forces and they teach you not to take any risks if you hurt yourself it is harder to live! the stuff bear does is just for show! and why does he have to talk like that?
> 
> Ian



Just wondering if you did any research on Les Stroud? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorman Les has a whole crew right near him at all times.  It's TV!!!!  You think that discovery lets either of them go out without safety nets? I can see the headlines now. "Discovery channel sued by the stroud family for not saving Les Stroud's life when attacked by mountain lions" I've seen Les get bailed out more than once due to weather or lack of water.   I like Stroud better because he had a survival school that he taught for like 20 years, and he made many different movies/doc about wilderness survival.  Bear is well trained too, but makes a show for pure entertainment.   I know for sure I wouldn't be doing random backflips in an abandon city! (Man vs. Wild Urban Survival)  

For other members who have posted things( I started reading the threads, but its like 40 pages long) about how they both suck, or one sucks.  I have to wonder if some of you are a little pissed that these dudes found away to make money doing something they love?  I know that the shows aren't very realistic, but it's TV!   I would rather watch those two dudes than sex in the city.

----------


## Sarge47

I don't care that they found a way to make money, but I think telling people that it's okay to drink urine straight from the bladder is just plain dangerous.   :Cool2:

----------


## Ken

You forgot to mention gross.   :gagged:

----------


## Rick

and then there's that whole elephant poo .... ah, never mind.

----------


## Theluciddreamers

Yeah, but see people on jackass drink pee and eat poo, and others are still going to do as they do.   We can't stop everyone from being stupid!

----------


## Sarge47

> Yeah, but see people on jackass drink pee and eat poo, and others are still going to do as they do.   We can't stop everyone from being stupid!


Stopping? No!  Warning? Yes!   :Cool2:  I also agree with you that Grylls is a Jackass!

----------


## Batch

The reason that I know that Lea Stroud has a safety crew in the area is because he has shown it on the show several times. He fully disclosed and explains that it is just too dangerous to attempt some of the things for them to allow him to do it without the safety crew.

I watched the episode adrift at sea or something. He had two radios and a safety boat that was supposed to be following him. He lost sight of the boat and tried both of the radios. He couldn't contact them for hours and explained that he did not like that at all. If he experience a life threatening incident he could not get help like he was supposed to. They also did cut that episode short. 

But, they fully disclosed everything. He probably is restricted in saying certain things. As the show requires you to believe he is all alone. They probably don't want to emphasis that they have greatly cut down any risk and put their stars safety as priority number two. Advertiser dollars always get first consideration. LOL

----------


## Justin Case

Watching Bear right Now, He is in The Sahara, Climbing up a rock face,   Totally seen his safety line ,  he was tied off from the top,  LOL

----------


## hybrid

neither... Malcom Douglas  :Wink:

----------


## hybrid

thats right, noone has ever heard of him. Might be time to disconnect the cable, for all the good it does anyone.

----------


## Old GI

Just watched an old Survivorman and Les was doing something I was taught never to do.  He was "parking" his ax by ramming the blade in the ground.  I would have got my butt whipped if I did that as a kid (and probably later).

----------


## Justin Case

Say what you want,,,  but I am watching survivorman right now on Discovery,  (maybe a marathon, I hope)   Anyway,  right now its the one when he is adrift in the life raft,,,  and although I know he is not in any "Real" danger as his support crew is close by,,  I always enjoy his show,,  IMO  its MUCH better than Bear ,,,,,    :Wink:

----------


## welderguy

I think the following idea would make for good TV viewing. 
 Take both Les and bear, stick them on a plane have them flowen to a location  undisclosed to them for 2 weeks with nothing but what they have in there pockets and two video cameras and spare batteries for said cameras , Wonder what the out come of that would be.

----------


## Justin Case

> I think the following idea would make for good TV viewing. 
>  Take both Les and bear, stick them on a plane have them flowen to a location  undisclosed to them for 2 weeks with nothing but what they have in there pockets and two video cameras and spare batteries for said cameras , Wonder what the out come of that would be.


They would probably kill each other ... lol   ya know,,  Right now, Les has just landed his raft on this little island ,,,  But,  There are Scorpions and Cockroaches there,,  ?   How do you suppose they got on that little island ?

(maybe its a bigger island than it looks ?)

----------


## crimescene450

ive always like stroud better
but he stopped making his show

i also saw a one time eventshow, on like discovery or something
where this guy stranded himself out in alaskan wilderness for 3 months
he only made it like 2 months before he had to be rescued

but he also had to follow hunting restrictions
and wasnt allowed to hunt elk

----------


## David.Crockett

WANTED: OUTDOOR ENTHUSIASTS WHO REALLY KNOW HOW TO SURVIVE
Do you have the skills to take on Mother Nature in all her fury and survive?  Can you start a fire without a match, find water in the wilderness, hunt for food and brave the elements?  A new television series is calling all wilderness junkies to demonstrate your survival skills.  Maybe you are a wilderness guide, hunting/fishing/trek hand, or a backcountry camper with extraordinary skills.  Maybe you've found yourself stranded, snowed-in or castaway - and survived.  If you've got the will, the ingenuity and the wilderness sense to face the elements, now is the chance to prove it to the world.

Email us with a short explanation for what makes you an extreme survivor, or any stories that exemplify your outdoor survival skills, as well as a PICTURE, and preferably a video of you in action.

----------


## crashdive123

So that all are aware - I've sent DC a pm regarding his postings.  I'll keep all members informed as to what I discover (the fact finding mission, not the cable channel).

----------


## timberghost

I also think bear g. shows you what you shouldn't do.  Last episode I watched, he was pole vaulting boulder to boulder down a mountain!  I guess thats okay if you want to break a leg,ankle or worse. I'm kinda partial to Dual survival. Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury really know their stuff.

----------


## lucznik

> I'm kinda partial to Dual survival. Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury really know their stuff.



Really?  You think so?

I have been somewhat underwhelmed by both of them.  Maybe it's just the format that Discovery chooses but, they seem to do a lot of the same dumb crap that Bear tries.  

The one thing that Cody does teach through his example - and does so both early and often is the absolute value of shoes and clothing.  He's always demonstrating (albeit perhaps unwittingly) just how foolish his "life choice" to go barefoot everywhere is.

----------


## pete lynch

> ...i also saw a one time eventshow, on like discovery or something
> where this guy stranded himself out in alaskan wilderness for 3 months
> he only made it like 2 months before he had to be rescued
> 
> but he also had to follow hunting restrictions
> and wasnt allowed to hunt elk


That was Ed Wardle. He cried a lot.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...e-wild-eds-bio

----------


## EagleScout

in my opion, Bear Gryllis is *crazy* ha. most people wouldnt be able to climb up a tree and make a shelter in a tree, but he was apart of some type of military. bear has a more exterme way of survival. les, on the other hand, shows survival skills many people could accomplish. when im bored and want a little more excitment i look for man vs. wild, but when i want to learn about survival skills that i could actually do, les is the man.

----------


## lucznik

Did y'all see that ol' Bear now has a new signature knife?

It is to be made by Gerber and released sometime in November.  You too can own one for only about $60.00.  

http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-0007...1651230&sr=8-1

http://www.pitchengine.com/pitch/79188

From the Manufacturer
Introducing the Gerber Bear Grylls Survival Series gear. This collaboration brings together Gerber’s over 70 years of knife and gear expertise with Bear Grylls’ extensive outdoor survival and adventure experience to create a one-of-a-kind line of knives, tools and gear. From his time in the British SAS, to scaling Mount Everest, to hosting his survival television show all over the globe, Bear knows what it takes to be a survivor in extreme situations. Each item in the Survival Series is meticulous designed by Gerber and Bear to offer a multitude of uses in any environment.

The Ultimate Knife is the pinnacle of Gerber’s Bear Grylls Survival Series. Intricately designed by Gerber and Bear, it’s loaded with innovations that won’t be found in any other fixed blade knife. Like everything in the Survival Series, it also includes Bear’s Priorities of Survival pocket guide. Super useful in the wild, it offers a vital edge to any survivor.

Knife Features:

    * 1/2 Serrated High Carbon Stainless Steel Drop Point Blade – Ideal for edge retention and cutting rope
    * Full Tang Blade Construction- For maximum durability
    * Ergonomic Textured Rubber Grip – Maximizes comfort and reduces slippage
    * Stainless Steel Pommel – At base of handle for hammering
    * Emergency Whistle – Integrated into lanyard cord

Sheath Feature:

    * Fire Starter – Ferrocerium rod locks into sheath, striker notch incorporated into back of knife blade
    * Nylon Sheath – Lightweight, military-grade, mildew resistant
    * Land to air rescue instructions
    * Diamond Sharpener – Integrated into sheath for on-the-go sharpening
    * Priorities of Survival – Pocket guide contains Bear’s survival essentials

Tech Specs:

    * Overall Length: 10-Inch
    * Blade Length: 4.75-Inch
    * Weight: 11.2-Ounce alone, 14.72-Ounce with sheath

----------


## hunter63

Looks like a new season is about to start.

----------


## letslearntogether47

I just got done reading Les Stroud's"Survive" book.
It was very informative and well worth the read.IMO,I think Bear and Les have two very different shows about the topic of survival.Bear is more into climbing stuff,like mountains, rocks,trees ect...ect.Where Les deals more with the psychological aspects of being alone in the wilderness.

----------


## luke2-2008

i like to watch both. if you weed threw the bs you can get some good info

----------


## Beo

Les Stroud is way better, Bear Grylls is a douche bag... in my opinion.
Beo,

----------


## Sarge47

> Did y'all see that ol' Bear now has a new signature knife?
> 
> It is to be made by Gerber and released sometime in November.  You too can own one for only about $60.00.  
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-31-0007...1651230&sr=8-1
> 
> http://www.pitchengine.com/pitch/79188
> 
> From the Manufacturer
> ...


I like this one a lot better than the one made by Bailey's.  I might even buy one down the road.  More affordable and has extra features.  Gerber is a great company.  Makes you wonder how many orders came in for the $700 model.   :Sneaky2:

----------


## lucznik

Saw "FAN vs. Wild" Wednesday.  Oh my goodness, what a fiasco!  

Bear takes two complete wilderness virgins, both of whom harbor serious phobias, and has them run through a bunch of "survival" exercises like rappelling down granite cliffs, waterfalls, and crevasses, glissading down mountain sides, fording freezing glacial-water rivers by walking/swimming through the fastest, deepest parts he could find, and foraging/eating a dinner-appetizer of raw rabbit heart and a breakfast of raw worms. It was hilarious!!!  

The best parts included:

1. Watching these guys eat raw worms rather than use them for bait to catch the fish that just HAD to be teeming in the river not 20 yards behind them.

2. Listening the innumerable "Bear Love-Fest/Worship" comments made by these guys. 

Some of my favorites came from the guy from NYC who said (among other things): 
"[Bear] can do anything; he can make fires, he can build stuff... hanging around greatness like that; some of it has to rub off eventually!""If Hell had a boot camp, this would be it!""This is it!  This is the real deal!  This is Man vs. Wild and it doesn't get any more real than that!"
3. Listening to Bear's voiceover commentary as he played the "HERO" and single-handedly saved these guys from their own inner demons and the ever-looming dangers of Nature.

I haven't laughed so hard in months.  I really owe Bear a debt of gratitude for that.

----------


## Sarge47

> Saw "FAN vs. Wild" Wednesday.  Oh my goodness, what a fiasco!  
> 
> Bear takes two complete wilderness virgins, both of whom harbor serious phobias, and has them run through a bunch of "survival" exercises like rappelling down granite cliffs, waterfalls, and crevasses, glissading down mountain sides, fording freezing glacial-water rivers by walking/swimming through the fastest, deepest parts he could find, and foraging/eating a dinner-appetizer of raw rabbit heart and a breakfast of raw worms. It was hilarious!!!  
> 
> The best parts included:
> 
> 1. Watching these guys eat raw worms rather than use them for bait to catch the fish that just HAD to be teeming in the river not 20 yards behind them.
> 
> 2. Listening the innumerable "Bear Love-Fest/Worship" comments made by these guys. 
> ...


I watched a bit of it, those "fans" were just lucky that they weren't in Africa or Austrailia, then Bear would've had them drinking water out of a large elephant turd or drinking their own urine...two lucky guys for sure!   :drunk:   :FRlol:   :Crying:

----------


## Sarge47

And BTW, didn't those two "fans" remind you of the Bare Wilderness guys?  :FRlol:

----------


## Rick

If the producers really wanted a good survival show then the two guys should have run the camera crew off at gun point, kidnapped Bear and taken him into the wilderness to prove he can do all the things he says he can. 

His best show was getting stung by the bee. That was one righteous bee!

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## TheWoodsman

Les stroud is awesome and living his dream out there surviving.I would like to do that. His show teaches his methods of surviving, throwing out tips every few seonds (which is cool) but mainly the mental aspect (He shows that very good). Bear shows you what les avoids on purpose. Les says don't step in quick sand, bear says this is what happens if you go into quick sand (and jumps in). Both are good to watch and you can pick up odds and ends of techniques for your own personal info. I do favor Les way more though, keep it up Les, 
Steve Burt

----------


## Sarge47

> Bear shows you what les avoids on purpose.(like drinking urine!)  Les says don't step in quick sand, bear says this is what happens if you go into quick sand (and jumps in). Both are good to watch(?????) and you can pick up odds and ends of techniques for your own personal info.(like how to squeeze water out of a large elephant turd!) I do favor Les way more though,(DUH!) keep it up Les, 
> Steve Burt


  Just couldn't resist.   :Whistling:

----------


## miller4546

BOTH SHOWS ARE Great, with draw backs....

MAN VS WILD
I live in Louisiana and have a wilderness survival school here i have been in survival since i was 7 years old, father was a military survival instructor and i would go with him and learn everything. my father told me , that one day i will need these skills to survive and it will prepare me for life.. it has.....after i graduated, i went into military served 15 years and learned as much as i could.. attended several military and civilian survival schools as well.  

i received a call one day from a gentleman whom stated that he was affiliated to a Discovery Channel show. And they were filming in Louisiana swamps after Katrina. they offered me a consultation fee to help them and Mr. Bear Grylls to coordinate a route for his show. I agreed and meet the gentleman. He is a really great guy and we talked for several hours on and off. We spoke about his family, his training, etc. He is an SAS SOLDIER and took the legionnnaire training . he is highly trained and they are all crazy. to the point to psychotic> HE knows his stuff, but puts his life in danger alot. but shows you what and how to do things that others will not. he even went against my advice of several things. but he is a man and he signed a waiver....ALL IN ALL he is a good guy.....but a backup / safety crew 3 miles away for safety.

survivorman

no military training, that i am aware of, nice guy, he is not dead. but carries his own gear and very knowledgeable....multiple survival shows done with no help. but a backup / safety crew 3 miles away. very knowledgeable though

a new group
dual survival.. dave canterbury/ cody lundin

met both of them, this year while filming the episode on louisiana swamps... cody lundin.... barefooted surivalist with multiple books on the topic and very smart ... i trusted him. but held back alot and limited to only desert survival

dave canterbury. hot head, stole survival skills, advice and knowledge from people off youtube to include me, i did not have anything for this guy... i preferred cody over him...he used only things prevy to that episode from his youtube videos. everything was set up.. he learned off /stoled off youtube for each episode... he actually pulled his webpage .and.gear and marked up the price and ripped people off on his knives. and got his logo copyrighted.. not even his logo.... to make a quick buck.. i have nothing for this guy..everything he said was questionable....

again, safety crew only a 1/2 mile away and they stayed in a 45 acre area for safety issues....this was a joke....but easy 

man, woman wild

mykel hawke. great guy. very knowledgable on survival and jungle, artic, desert, etc...military trained all survival schools, special forces trained, very cocky, met him once. this year..... good to go. hell he even brought his wife along and she was with him the whole time......safety crew 3 miles away for safety....

all in all my order.. but just my .02 cents
1) mykel
2) bear
3) les, 
4) cody

----------


## Alaskan Survivalist

Aren't they all in it for the buck? Including yourself or do you run your school for free? There are millions of people out there that make the "experts" like amateurs just don't seek fame or fortune. I know dozens of Dick Phoenecki's that did not make a movie. Credentials don't count for squat. What matters is what you know, not that others know you know it. Unless of coarse you are in it for the bucks.

----------


## hunter63

Thats cool to have first hand experiance with most of them.

I always keep in mind that they are TV shows, better than a lot of sit-coms, 'reality shows, and most everything else, but still a show.

----------


## EdD270

> Poll: Who is the better survivor? 
> My husband and kids love to watch these shows. Do you think they have anything to actually teach people about surviving in on "have-to" basis?


You ask two questions:
Who is the better survivor? 
I'd have to guess it would be a toss up, since both are well trained and experienced, they both have the skills.
Do they actually teach people about surviving? 
Les Stroud gives some good skill demonstrations and does show and explain how to do it on his show. But that don't really qualify as "teaching people", which takes much more time, repetition, supervised practice, etc.
Bear Grylls, on the other hand mostly deomstrates what not to do, and how to commit suicide in the wilderness and make it look like an accident. Not much of real use there, but it is entertaining to watch and that seems to be the sole goal of the show's producers.

----------


## Sarge47

> BOTH SHOWS ARE Great, with draw backs....
> 
> MAN VS WILD
> I live in Louisiana and have a wilderness survival school here i have been in survival since i was 7 years old, father was a military survival instructor and i would go with him and learn everything. my father told me , that one day i will need these skills to survive and it will prepare me for life.. it has.....after i graduated, i went into military served 15 years and learned as much as i could.. attended several military and civilian survival schools as well.  
> 
> i received a call one day from a gentleman whom stated that he was affiliated to a Discovery Channel show. And they were filming in Louisiana swamps after Katrina. they offered me a consultation fee to help them and Mr. Bear Grylls to coordinate a route for his show. I agreed and meet the gentleman. He is a really great guy and we talked for several hours on and off. We spoke about his family, his training, etc. He is an SAS SOLDIER and took the legionnnaire training . he is highly trained and they are all crazy. to the point to psychotic> HE knows his stuff, but puts his life in danger alot. but shows you what and how to do things that others will not. he even went against my advice of several things. but he is a man and he signed a waiver....ALL IN ALL he is a good guy.....but a backup / safety crew 3 miles away for safety.
> 
> survivorman
> 
> ...


Well now, I must respectfully disagree with you.  I don't consider any of these guys survival "experts," but rather "survival instructors."  I also don't hold it against them that they "stole" info as we've all learned from other people.

Here's the thing, I would hold people like PVC Outdoors, Pict, Ken, Crash, FinallyME, & Rick as "survival instructors" as well.  It's NOT rocket science.  so if we're looking at the 5 TV personalities, IMO it would go like this:  

1.)  Les
2.) Cody
3.) Dave

Mykel disqualified himself with the words "Happy Survivalin'" on his website as well as coercing his wife to drink his urine.  Bear also for the same thing, drinking pee!  Any TV "expert" that advocates something like this which every survival book quotes as a definite "no-no" is a danger to the young, impressionable viewers and should not be allowed on the air.   :No:    AS mentions that no one could keep up on the trail with Bear & that also disqualifies him as that's not a trait to be envied.  Running "willy-nilly" through the wilderness like a "striped-azz ape" is NOT survival, but stupidity.  Cody Lundin goes barefoot because it slows him down, forcing him to concentrate on the terrain he's traveling across.  Then there's the fact that the most experienced in any group trying to survive has to keep the best interests of said group in mind.  Survival is about staying alive!  It's about keeping those with you alive!  It's NOT about the ratings!  My buck-two-fifty!     :Cool2:

----------


## JPGreco

My first thought when I first watched Man vs Wild was that Bear was an idiot for the things he did.  I was so happy when they changed to style of the show to talking to the camera crea (acknowledged they were there) and when he stated that the things he is doing is a last resort type of thing (like when he jumps in ice cold water).  Alot of that info is incredibly valuable and to see it is just another way to learn it, but its still crazy.

Les is my favorite.  I would love to spend a few days out in the wild with that man.  His other show, where he spends time with indeginious people is amazing as well.

Cody and Dave, eh, I can't stand the arguing.  I do like Cody more though.

Man, Woman, Wild is interesting.  More along the lines of Survivorman, where they get "stuck" with some gear.  Its interesting seeing the dynamics of the situation with more than one person.  I mean, if I got stuck with most of my friends, I'm the one with the most experience.  The dynamics of talking someone who doesn't know their stuff through things is interesting (to me at least).  They also acknowledge the camera crew which I like.

I would go:
-Les - just the man
-Cody - introduces a very unique approach, even if it seems idiotic at times (no shoes in the snow
-Bear - insane, but shows what to do in extreme situations.  Yes, you should avoid them, but you gotta know what to do if it happens.
-Mykael

My idea for a show would be a true Survivor.  Drop a bunch of people on an island, the crew films it all, they all get to bring a couple of things and thats it.  Last man standing wins.  They can go it alone, team up, raid other camps.  Basically the only rule would be you can't severely hurt someone else or take prisoners... lol

----------


## hunter63

> ..................My idea for a show would be a true Survivor.  Drop a bunch of people on an island, the crew films it all, they all get to bring a couple of things and thats it.  Last man standing wins.  They can go it alone, team up, raid other camps.  Basically the only rule would be you can't severely hurt someone else or take prisoners... lol


They have on called "Survivor", the first of the genre, history making and still one of my favorites.
Now if they woud just not fog out the good shots.....................

----------


## postman

I can assure you that Les is the real deal. I recently took an advanced survival course with the same instructor that trained Les. His name is David Arama and he's been teaching wilderness survival for about 30 years. He runs a survival school in Ontario called WSC, which stands for wildernes survival challenge. He also trains military, police, and search and rescue.

----------


## LongHuntre

Ray Mears is the best IMHO but i really like Les

----------


## Justin Case

I watched LS new show "Beyond Survival" a couple of days ago, I seen this episode http://www.lesstroud.ca/beyondsurvival/ep2.php   It was pretty Good !  looking at the link it looks like the show is all his,,  Its on discovery but i "Think" he is the producer, not them..

----------


## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> My idea for a show would be a true Survivor.  Drop a bunch of people on an island, the crew films it all, they all get to bring a couple of things and thats it.  Last man standing wins.  They can go it alone, team up, raid other camps.  Basically the only rule would be you can't severely hurt someone else or take prisoners... lol


  I think they should do a "Survival Forum Challenge" Let each of the different Forums choose 10 or 12 of their "Best"(The forums choose the members to represent that Forum With no "Instructors" allowed[Forum Members that actually teach survival classes]) and do what you are suggesting here. Drop each team into the same area over a few weeks time with the only gear given being a map and compass for the group with a start and finish point. Plus 2 items per team member, with no more than 2 of each item being allowed (I.E. 2 knives per team,2 pots,2 ponchos,2 first Aid kits, etc.... The team that does the "best" wins so many points and then off to another environment, to start again. Kind of a cross between Dual survival and that Urban Group survival show(What was the name of that show?) that Discovery Channel did.

----------


## OhioGrizzLapp

In my humble opinion... both in the poll are idiots and will get someone killed, especially Bear Grylis. Bear is a liabilty and not an asset to true wilderness survival fans.  After the first few shows, I stopped watching them. The only show I watch now is the Husband /Wife team and that is only because she is cute as a button and ya just have to love her Brit accent.

----------


## Justin Case

> In my humble opinion... both in the poll are idiots and will get someone killed, especially Bear Grylis. Bear is a liabilty and not an asset to true wilderness survival fans.  After the first few shows, I stopped watching them. The only show I watch now is the Husband /Wife team and that is only because she is cute as a button and ya just have to love her Brit accent.


Yeah, but the guys dorky-ness outweighs her cute-ness !

----------


## bill452010

Definitly Les over Bear.Les tests a piece of equipment every episode.The space blanket,better used as part of your shelter to keep you dry than as a blanket to keep you warm.Wire saw better as a snare than cutting wood,He not only gives real solutions to problems,he tests what novices may depend on because of good advertising.Bear I respect his skills,but he does way to dangerous stunts for the ratings.He reminds me of Ted Nugent.He is an awesome hunter and I respect his views on life and politics,but the way he tries to get them across hurt more than they help.Just my opinion.

----------


## bikerweb

Less Stroud definatley has a more realistic show. Bear is a freak show. For gods sake cook the food you catch! I cant fault him though. He was british spec ops. Most guys loose it after they get out. You cant stop once you start. He directed it to the outdoors. Good on him.

----------


## Justin Case

> Less Stroud definatley has a more realistic show. Bear is a freak show. *For gods sake cook the food you catch!* I cant fault him though. He was british spec ops. Most guys loose it after they get out. You cant stop once you start. He directed it to the outdoors. Good on him.


No Kidding !!

*WARNING WARNING    What you are about to see is DISGUSTING ! Scroll down at your own risk !*





















































Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## elabkokim

I prefer Survivorman.  Man vs Wild reminded me of the game show Survivor, where the only person with real survival training (in the first episode, first season) was immediately voted off.  In a real survival situation, you do not banish your only real survival expert.  Likewise, to get down a mountain, you do not carve a pine tree into a pole and use it to pole vault repeatedly down the side of a mountain.

What I mean is Man vs Wild struck me as not being real.  Bear was doing things people should not do in real survival situations.  I know Bear has real skills, but a show supposedly about surviving should really be about surviving, not taking foolish risks or showing off for the camera/audience.  Oh well, that's Hollywood.  I've seen every Survivorman episode and about five minutes of two different Man vs Wild Episodes.

Then I came across Dual Survival with Dave Canterbury and Cody Lundin.  At first, I thought it was weird with Cody wearing nothing but wool socks in the snow in Nova Scotia, and Dave and Cody arguing about differences of opinion on just about everything.  However, when Cody built an exceptionally warm efficient shelter for the night, he impressed Dave, and me too.  Anyway, I watched every episode and it's my favorite series now.  They argue a lot, but it just goes to show there isn't one right way to deal with every situation.

Comparing Dual Survival to Survivorman, I find the dialogue in Dual Survival to be a relief from listening to Les Stroud's monologue, which never bothered me the first time I watched it, but after watching Dual Survival and then watching some Survivor episodes for a second time, it almost sounded like constant complaining from Les Stroud.  But maybe, that's the real deal.  Get stuck in the middle of nowhere by yourself, and who wouldn't be constantly thinking negative thoughts?  All the more reason to always stick to the buddy system.

----------


## Trabitha

Did I hear right?  Did Bear REALLY wear a seal carcass as a wetsuit???

----------


## Sarge47

Bear did skin out a dead seal & use the hide as a sort of a wet suit.  Now he's billing himself as a former SEAL!   :Devil2: 

This thread was started way back in 2007, when there were only the 2 survival shows listed.  Since then we've had several others.  "Survivorman" didn't survive, but "Man vs. Wild" did.  Then along came "Dual Survival", which became my favorite over "M. vs. W.," as well as another new one:   "Man, Woman, Wild."  I'd like to see Les do another series along side Dave & Cody, that would be "Super-Cool!"  They could call it "Triple Survival." Bear could team up with the Hawkes and they could call that one:  "Two idiots & a lady."  1st show out, Mrs. Hawke has to decide which of the 2 guys has the cuter tush!   :Devil2:

----------


## copybiz

Survivorman rules and is just plain more realistic

----------


## Trabitha

LOL @ Sarge!!  
You know...I like duel survivor too!  I thought Cody was a wus in the beginning...but the more I watch, the more I like him and think that Dave is overly reckless, angry, and irritating. LOL!!  I have to say I was cheering for the bees in the bee hive when Dave thought it was a good idea to try and collect honey.  He's such an idiot sometimes. LOL!!!

----------


## Knife Guy

There was a _Man vs. Wild_ episode on yesterday in which Bear improvised a high altitude swing line on a rock face and later threw the line with a rock attached across a crevice and then shimmied across.  Both activities looked like good ways to get killed or seriously injured if you were actually in survival mode as opposed to having a support crew to check the safety of your lines.  I agree with others, it's an entertaining show and contains some good tips, but there are also some risky behaviors thrown in for the "TV effect" which would reduce, not enhance, your chances of survival.

--The Knife Guy

----------


## Sarge47

> There was a _Man vs. Wild_ episode on yesterday in which Bear improvised a high altitude swing line on a rock face and later threw the line with a rock attached across a crevice and then shimmied across.  Both activities looked like good ways to get killed or seriously injured if you were actually in survival mode as opposed to having a support crew to check the safety of your lines.  I agree with others, it's an entertaining show and contains some good tips, but there are also some risky behaviors thrown in for the "TV effect" which would reduce, not enhance, your chances of survival.
> 
> --The Knife Guy


Hey Knife Guy, why don't you "Shinney" over to the intro section & tell us about yourself?

----------


## Ssgt_DimeBag

Heres the old Les vs Bear!
First the man did serve in the SAS.
Second he has never said he served in the legion.He did a show with regular guys with legionaries.Called: Escape to the Legion.
Third at the beginning of all the shows it says"Bear Grylls and the crew receive support when they are in potentially life threatening situations, as required by health and safety regulations. 
On some occasions, situations are presented to Bear so he can demonstrate survival techniques".

"Professional advice should always be sought before entering any dangerous environment".

Now this some times means they go to Bear and say "OK this is the deal now how would you get out"
Most of what he does is Military survival were you have to take them chances to get out from behind enemy lines!Yes I would take the chance of the water fall over two days to go around.People take life risks every time they climb Mt Everest and he even did that.
Now Les is more "no one is after me so I got all the time in the world to get out so I'll play my blow pipe".Les has a Sat phone on him at all times plus the crew is always near by mostly with a chopper and a camp.Following him at all times.You can even look at his web site and he will even tell you.
So these are two very different survivalist.One is "Crap my plane got shot down I got to get out of dodge".The other is "o man I got turned around lost my ride and now I have to walk out".I respect both men,but to totally say that one is a fraud over any other is just wrong.You may prefer the way Les does things,but that does not mean Bear is wrong in his ways.I don't have to watch a show of a man coming out half dead to understand what hes trying to show me.If the camera's not rolling I'm not sleeping in the cold just to prove my point either.

----------


## Melissa Montana

Yea what Dime said :Tt2: .....Plus he is a lot sexier then the others. :Tt1:

----------


## Winnie

> Heres the old Les vs Bear!
> First the man did serve in the SAS.
> Second he has never said he served in the legion.He did a show with regular guys with legionaries.Called: Escape to the Legion.
> Third at the beginning of all the shows it says"Bear Grylls and the crew receive support when they are in potentially life threatening situations, as required by health and safety regulations. 
> On some occasions, situations are presented to Bear so he can demonstrate survival techniques".
> 
> "Professional advice should always be sought before entering any dangerous environment".
> 
> Now this some times means they go to Bear and say "OK this is the deal now how would you get out"
> ...



Now you see, this is where I get annoyed. Bear Grylls, DID NOT serve with the SAS. He served with 21Regiment SAS(R). This is a part-time Reservist Regiment that bears little resemblance with 22SAS Regiment.

http://www.sasspecialairservice.com/bear-grylls.html
http://www.eliteukforces.info/specia.../sas-reserves/
http://www.eliteukforces.info/special-air-service/

While there is no doubt he served in the military as a territorial reservist. Make no mistake he was not Regular Army.

----------


## Melissa Montana

Yea well see Winnie here in the states we have reserves and they fight right along with our full timers and very much respected,90% of our reserves do not even have SF training.Maybe over there it is a big separation,but not here.What has Les done?Lived as a hippie for a year?A hippie now able to buy an off the grid lifestyle that the average person couldn't even afford.Its just alternate energy.And he only got that because of the show.Sure wasn't his music.ROTFLMAO

----------


## Winnie

I can't comment on Les Stroud, I've never seen any of his shows.
The Terriers over here have the greatest of respect, fight alongside the Regulars just as your reservists do.  
What I take exception to is the inference that he served with the Regular SAS. He did not.
I am sure Dimebag 333 would agree, exagerrating your Army career for your own gain, not only ruins your own credibility, it also sullies those you served with and those you purport to have served with. It's just not done.

----------


## Sarge47

> Yea what Dime said.....Plus he is a lot sexier then the others.


 Ya see Crash?  I told you that the girlies would like Bear's cute little Tush!  However, when they kiss him they might smell urine on his breath.....! :Nod:

----------


## Sarge47

> Yea well see Winnie here in the states we have reserves and they fight right along with our full timers and very much respected,90% of our reserves do not even have SF training.Maybe over there it is a big separation,but not here.What has Les done?Lived as a hippie for a year?A hippie now able to buy an off the grid lifestyle that the average person couldn't even afford.Its just alternate energy.And he only got that because of the show.Sure wasn't his music.ROTFLMAO


 I have two nephews and a brother who serve, or have served in the Reserves.  I also have two brothers who served in the Army.  I have a grown son who served in the United States Marines and was in Desert Storm.  While it's true that they all fight together, the way they fight, their attitudes, toughness, etc, is as different as night & day.  The Marines go through a lot tougher training.  However, my concern with Bear is that he teaches crap that'll hurt you or get you killed.   :Thumbdown:   Also, I LIKE Les' music!   :Nod:   What's wrong with being a Hippie?  Cody Lundin is a "Bush Hippie" & I also like his style. Everybody needs to know & learn how to survive, not just the "tough" guys.   :Nod:

----------


## Winnie

> Ya see Crash?  I told you that the girlies would like Bear's cute little Tush!  However, when they kiss him they might smell urine on his breath.....!


Not to mention Elephant poo

----------


## Miguelito

Bear Grylls is a badass! BG ALL THE WAY!

----------


## Melissa Montana

I'm sure he brushes his teeth before he goes home! 
The man is sexy!
images.jpg


O i had to.ROTFLMAO!
200px-Bear_stroud.jpg


O nothing wrong with everyone learning survival,just not into the hippie type.
Guess i have some prejudice Bear is built like the hubs.
Yea even Cody learned that his hippie no shoe wearing was not the best thing in the cold.lol
Even Les tried his hippie medicine for over 6 months when he caught a parasite and then had to goto a real DR.

----------


## nell67

> I'm sure he brushes his teeth before he goes home! 
> *The man is sexy*!
> images.jpg
> 
> 
> O i had to.ROTFLMAO!
> 200px-Bear_stroud.jpg


Yea,ummm,nope!

But then he is probably the easiest man to NOT have to cook for, EVER!

----------


## Justin Case

Sexy ???

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## Melissa Montana

> Sexy ???
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


YES!!!
And if you watch the Les one he went to the exact same place took the exact same route and ate the exact same things.
Probably the only time i seen Les eat.LMAO
Wow with all these Military guys you should know in your handy dandy books about eating insects.
I got the same books.
Even Scott O' Grady survived off of ants while shot down behind enemy lines.
Did anyone even watch the Scott O' Grady story?
Got to work for them.

----------


## Justin Case

Thats not an insect,  Its an Alien !!!

----------


## Melissa Montana

ROTFLMAO!!!
Stand back Skywalker i got this :saberbattle:

----------


## Bailey.W

Honestly, Les Stroud is much better than Bear Grylls, considering his more fine tuned approach on survival (no disrespect to Bear Grylls). But personally, Ray Mears does a much better job than either of them. He teaches more advanced techniques and gives an in-depth look at nearly all cultures which rely on them. Where as Bear Grylls is for the average person who has little knowledge of bush-craft. Though Man Vs. Wild and Survivorman are both interesting shows, I've learned and formed my interest for bush-craft from Ray Mears. I've learned MUCH more from his documentaries.

----------


## crashdive123

Hey ther Bailey.W.  When you can, stop on by the Introduction section so we can learn a bit about you.  Thanks.

----------


## Texas Rebel

Bear will get you killed if you try what he does.
In a survival scenario you really don't want to be doing all that running around he does.

----------


## Alaskan Survivalist

> Bear will get you killed if you try what he does.
> In a survival scenario you really don't want to be doing all that running around he does.


Mobilty is why I give him high marks. I regret that I'm gradually loosing mine with age. If you are going to be self reliant mobility is important. If you are counting on somebody else to save you then sitting there helpless is the thing to do.

----------


## kyratshooter

> Mobilty is why I give him high marks. I regret that I'm gradually loosing mine with age. If you are going to be self reliant mobility is important. If you are counting on somebody else to save you then sitting there helpless is the thing to do.


Even though every SAR organization on the face of the earth recommends that you stay in place so they do not have to chase you?

When did following their recommendations of sitting down, building a fire and getting still so they do not have to chase you down become a character flaw?

You live long enough and you will stop worrying about your "mobility" and get smart enough to buy a personal locater beacon and you can sit down and wait for the good guys to show up.

----------


## BENESSE

> Mobilty is why I give him high marks. I regret that I'm gradually loosing mine with age. *If you are going to be self reliant mobility is important*. If you are counting on somebody else to save you then sitting there helpless is the thing to do.


I couldn't agree more.!
Sitting on you a$$ because you're contemplating your options is one thing, but growing roots in one place because you're out of shape and having a cardiac is quite another. Make sure you give yourself options.

----------


## Sarge47

> Mobilty is why I give him high marks. I regret that I'm gradually loosing mine with age. If you are going to be self reliant mobility is important. If you are counting on somebody else to save you then sitting there helpless is the thing to do.


 S.T.O.P.!!!  Live by it, or die without it!   :Sneaky2:

----------


## Alaskan Survivalist

> Even though every SAR organization on the face of the earth recommends that you stay in place so they do not have to chase you?
> 
> When did following their recommendations of sitting down, building a fire and getting still so they do not have to chase you down become a character flaw?
> 
> You live long enough and you will stop worrying about your "mobility" and get smart enough to buy a personal locater beacon and you can sit down and wait for the good guys to show up.


Mobility is a key issue to survival. Then there is my own code that does not allow me to have others do for me what I can do for myself. So if there is a character flaw that would be it from my stand point. With the average IQ being 100 what most people think or recomend does not concern me. I know that when ever I'm in a bad situation I just go home. In the times I had no home I would just look for food or comfort where ever I found it. Finding it requres you to get off your a$$.

----------


## Alaskan Survivalist

> S.T.O.P.!!!  Live by it, or die without it!


I always love it when "you're going to die" comes into the conversation. Well I havn't died yet, I just went home early. That's why BG is the best.

----------


## crashdive123

Some people like Bear.  Some people don't.  Some people like Les.  Some people don't.  Who cares?  If you can take anything useful away from any of these type shows then that's a good thing.  Living vicariously through them, not so much.

----------


## Sarge47

> Some people like Bear.  Some people don't.  Some people like Les.  Some people don't.  Who cares?  If you can take anything useful away from any of these type shows then that's a good thing.  Living vicariously through them, not so much.


 I agree, with Les, and now even Cody & Dave you learn what to do, with Bear you learn what NOT to do.  AS, if you can just go home then you're not in a "survival" situation.   :Cool2:

----------


## Alaskan Survivalist

> AS, if you can just go home then you're not in a "survival" situation.


That's just word games. I once walked 3 days and nights in a blowing snow storm with both legs frost bitten knowing if I stopped I was dead. The Richardson Highway was shut down and there were no planes flying. The wind was blowing about 80 mph and at thirty below the Ice crystals hitting me felt like being sand blasted. I made it so I guess it was not a survival situation. You would have sat there and died and it would have been a survival situation. You win.

----------


## Sarge47

> That's just word games. I once walked 3 days and nights in a blowing snow storm with both legs frost bitten knowing if I stopped I was dead. The Richardson Highway was shut down and there were no planes flying. The wind was blowing about 80 mph and at thirty below the Ice crystals hitting me felt like being sand blasted. I made it so I guess it was not a survival situation. You would have sat there and died and it would have been a survival situation. You win.


 :Lol:   :Lol:   :Lol:   :Lol:   :Lol:

----------


## Atlanta Randy

I just ran across this. Even though it's been a few years since you deemed it important to be that much of an *** I thought I'd just let you know that it is commonly thought of as a sign of maturity and intelligence to be able to debate someone with a different opinion without being insulting. But take heart, not everyone is cut out to be polite....or in your case...civil...You don't like Bear G....OK, we get it. Neither blind or stupid. Just reporting what I've worked on for the producers of his show and trying to explain how "editiing" works on TV. But hey. You got a phone call about a dead kangaroo, so that makes you an expert based on one experience and some obvious, ignorant assumptions. Please try and not hurt yourself when youfinally agree to the worlds request **********************






> _ I've seen the Aussie episode. He never ate a kangaroo._ 
> 
> That's because he never got permission from us.
> 
> _ They edit scenes like that. They take footage with a camera on the raft then footage from the banks then footage from Bear's hand cam and edit it to be entertaining. Not staged,_ 
> 
> Are you blind, or just stupid?
> Howcome ine minute there is a camera man on the raft, and then POOF! He's gone. That's the epitimy of something being staged.
> They do multiple takes and resets.
> ...

----------


## hunter63

Wow, .........voices from the past........do I hear?  (yoda speak)

----------


## Rick

Atlanta Randy - It would probably have been a sign of maturity on your part had you passed up the need to argue with a 5 year old post that you had input on at the time. You have the right to disagree with someone on a post but you don't have the right to post what you did. Probably a sign of civility that you passed on, too. That's the problem with calling the kettle black. You painted yourself the same color in the process.

----------


## hunter63

Why not close this thread?.....we have people arguing with people from 5 years ago.......Some never forget....
If some one ants they can start over??//Maybe?

----------


## Rick

I saw there was a post in it and I thought Holy Cow! Nearly 900 posts on such a bizarre subject. Over that now. Just one guy arguing to make himself feel good. I'll leave it open.

----------


## hunter63

OK......Kinda like watching an ant hill........

----------


## Sarge47

> I just ran across this. Even though it's been a few years since you deemed it important to be that much of an *** I thought I'd just let you know that it is commonly thought of as a sign of maturity and intelligence to be able to debate someone with a different opinion without being insulting. But take heart, not everyone is cut out to be polite....or in your case...civil...You don't like Bear G....OK, we get it. Neither blind or stupid. Just reporting what I've worked on for the producers of his show and trying to explain how "editiing" works on TV. But hey. You got a phone call about a dead kangaroo, so that makes you an expert based on one experience and some obvious, ignorant assumptions. Please try and not hurt yourself when youfinally agree to the worlds request **********************


If you'd of clicked on S.O.E.'s profile page you'd of found this in the left hand column:  "*Last Activity: * 10-11-2007 7:00AM.  What that means is that the dude has been gone for about 4 years!  Back then there were no mods and S.O.E. was quick to "flame" anybody that disagreed with him!  However he did make a substantial contribution to the site; from him we got the cool word "Numpty," which is UK for idiot!"  (Sigh) great times!     :2:

----------


## MiddleWolf

I think that all the shows have something to offer.  Of course things are different if you're with a camera crew.  But they post disclaimers at the beginning of each episode.  All of them are in a way "demos" of what can be experienced in the bush.  Even the one Bear put on with the trucks and equipment doing the wind experiment to show the use of a snow cave for survival in blustery conditions.  That's what they're about.  And don't forget that in a couple of the episodes of Man Woman Wild she actually got sick due to the conditions and hypothermic in another.  I don't believe they sat down to lunch between takes.  

So take them for what they are.  At least they don't try to vote each other off the island like another show I could mention.  When my wife and I tuned in to the first episode of that one, we expected to see something similar to what these shows brought to TV.  Needless to say, a second episode has never shown in this house.

----------


## RockyRaccoon

Although I like watching both Survivorman and Man vs. Wild I have come to realize that you can't compare the two.

Survivorman is just what the name implies. A man that goes and survives for a week then rendezvous with his crew. Because it is a TV show the crew stays within a certain distance as a safety net, but doesn't come to Les' aid unless (no pun intended) he is in a life threatening situation. He displays the skills and knowledge of survival and films it himself to stay true to the concept of the show and the shows name.

Man vs. Wild on the other hand NEVER says anything about "survival" it is just A MAN VERSUS THE WILD. A la this is just a show of entertainment where a guy runs around in wilderness trying to overcome whatever the wilderness has to offer in radical and entertaining ways. It is and never was meant to be a survival show. It is just a man trying to overcome whatever the wilderness has to offer.

Think of it this way. There is a mountain... Les Stroud's goal is to SURVIVE on that mountain for a week. Bear Grylls' goal is to climb to the top of it and glasade down as fast as possible.

----------


## Wildthang

Well I cant say that I haven't learned anything from both of those shows, and that's not all bad. Those guys are just making money being on television and probably lot's of it. Would you take that job if it was offered to you at ( I'm guessing ) $200,000 per show? I would in a heart beat!
I must say that I would rather watch those shows as a heck of a lot of other stuff on TV, like Drag Races, Bridezilla, Orange County Coppers, and an unending list of garbage telivision!

----------


## natertot

> OK......Kinda like watching an ant hill........


Should we start pulling out a magnifying glass?!  :Lol:

----------


## hunter63

> Should we start pulling out a magnifying glass?!


It's out already,.......LOL
Ant hills go about their business until someone kicks it, and then the frantic scurry.....begins....over and over again.

----------


## Sarge47

I'm a big Baden Powell fan!  He taught me everything I need to know about survival!

----------


## Jolls44

Les stroud is my hero! Bear has some good knowledge but we're not all special forces. Les teaches you to stop and think about what your doing not just jump off a cliff into a freezing river.

----------


## scarecrow3462

if i had to be stranded in the wild and those were the choices for who else is there....les stroud all day long hands down.

----------


## Iskander

I don't know anything about Les Stroud as I've never watched the show but I'd take my chances that he is less of a phony as Bear. Also, it's cool you resurrected a thread that hasn't been active in exactly (almost to the hour) three years. Long live the argument thread!

----------


## Zack

> Les stroud is my hero! Bear has some good knowledge but we're not all special forces. Les teaches you to stop and think about what your doing not just jump off a cliff into a freezing river.


I agree.  I have only seen one or two of Bear Grylls' shows, but from what I have seen, I do not approve.  Not that I am an expert, but from what I can gather, Les Stroud has a lot more practical survival tips and advice than Bear Grylls.  I've seen quite a bit of Les Stroud's work and I think that he is a better "survivalist".

----------


## Tokwan

i find them as shows, eventhough they do teach you how to make shelters find water and food, but they do not actually show or tell you how laborious or how long and laborious each process are.
I have tried to make primitive emergency shelters and let me tell you..it takes too long, too many materials and very laborious. In the heat, you will drain yourself. To male a bamboo shelter will see you cutting at least 50 pieces of 20 feet bamboo poles, especially when you have to sleep of the ground. 
To thatch a palm leave shelter for an adult, you will need at least 60 pieces of palm leaves. 
Imagine how long the cutting will take, the transporting and the time taken to construct.
You will need a cutting tool.
As I am teaching, I always tell my students to be ready. A hammock, tarp and a fire making kit is essential and one shuld be ready with them at all times when you go hiking, even for a day hike.

----------


## richbat

Voted for Les Stroud but would have absolutely no problem in a situation with Cody Lundin[sp?] Now that there would be a great show having those 2 work together.

----------


## Grizz123

If I was trying to fight off or evade an enemy force of some sort, I'd rather have Bear by my side. All other survival situations I'd rather be sitting next to Les

----------


## hunter63

.....and a way we goooooooo......

----------


## Rick

Not gonna do it. No sir. Not me.

----------


## hunter63

Well seems the Les is in the lead a 260 to 46 in the poll......and a lot of voters haven't been around for a long time.....?
The votes still count?

Just realized I hadn't voted....guess I was waiting for Ruth's name to show up.

One more for Les.....

----------


## kyratshooter

Sorry Hunter, I would have to choose Karen Hood over Ruth Hawk.

Chrome don't get you home.

http://www.survival.com/

----------


## hunter63

Well we can double date.....LOL.
Did you just now vote as well.....?

----------

