# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Cooking, Food Storage, & Preserving >  do u think this is true??

## cabingal4

How do you keep unrefrigerated milk from spoiling? Frogs, of course! For centuries before refrigeration, legend goes that Russians put frogs in their milk to keep it from spoiling. Russian scientists decided to test this wives' tale. They indeed found the skin of many frogs does secrete compounds known as antimicrobial peptides, which have antibacterial properties similar to antibiotics. A compound secreted by the North American mink frog appears to fight the stubborn "Iraqibacter," an infection common in wounded soldiers fighting in Iraq. Likewise, secretions from the foothilll four-legged frog may be able to fight the MRSA staph skin infection. The Russian brown frog--considered a tasty delicacy and possibly the frog used in the milk legend--turns out to contain a cocktail of 76 peptides with possible medical benefits. So what are you waiting for? Dropping a frog in your milk not only extends its longevity but might just cure your next infection. Of course, your milk may taste a little froggy.

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## BENESSE

I think I'm gonna stick to water, thank you very much. Not gonna expire if I don't drink milk.

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## hunter63

You can have mine....don't like milk.
Had a bad experience  in grade school with a milk,.... warm milk, and plastic glasses that were sitting upside down in bleach water....so when the warm milk was added, it sorta coagulated and swirled.

Forced to drink it by very large, nasty, didn't speak much English lunch ladies(?)....got sick....haven't drank milk ever since. 

Interesting theory or Old Wives tale.....most old wives were consider wise, as the dumb one's got thinned out early, and didn't get old.

So let us know how it works......

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## cabingal4

hee hee.
theres alot of frogs out our way.
we are off the grid.

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## randyt

Try this experiment, take a glass of milk and mix a teaspoon of hydrogen proxide in it. Let it sit on the counter for awhile and see how long it takes for the milk to spoil.

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## hunter63

How are you gonna tell?

When some one says..."Hey does this smell OK to you?.......Not anymore"....don't do sniffin'

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## Rick

I drink close to 2 gallons of milk a week. 1.5 gallons for sure. It is the elixir of the gods. Right after coffee of course. I've been known to dredge frog legs through milk and egg but I won't be dropping any frogs in my milk, thank you.

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## cabingal4

Rick.oh.snicker.soo funny. :FRlol:

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## crashdive123

I switched to unsweetened almond milk quite a while ago.  There are shelf stable milks available, but they are a little pricey.  Of course, if you are talking about raising your own that's a whole 'nuther story.

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## hunter63

Raise your own frogs?....or milk?

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## cabingal4

i just saw something on almond powder.
i thought in the winter we will be fine on keeping perishable goods cold.
in summer may be a different story.
i was thinking not of frogs but of maybe as u say crashdive123-of a powered milk.
just pour some cool water in a glass and stir in some almond powder.
or powdered milk.

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## sjj

.....................

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## hunter63

> I've grown to like Augason brand non-fat  powdered milk and can mix it to the exact consistency I like.  I definitely prefer it to store bought non-fat or even 2% milk.   I do buy half & half on occasion to add to special treats.  One odd thing that I've found personally to be true (at least locally) is that the "organic" brand seems to keep much better than the non-organic brand.  Why - I have no idea.


If I liked milk I would choose this option over the frogs.....

When I was a kid, there was a really old guy lived down the street....this was in the '50's...had the only working out house and hand pump on the back porch.
His garbage had many empty cans of Pet condensed milk, Spam cans and soup cans.

Ask him once about it....said he had his oatmeal with milk everyday and milk in his coffee......and that was all he used.

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## cabingal4

hunter i think of this too.
us in the woods having healthy oatmeal every morning with the
powdered milk and toast every day.
we r gonna try to not have or purchase cans cause we want to reduce our garbage.
some good ideas here.

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## crashdive123

Over 20 years in Submarines - we got used to powdered milk.  Add a hint of vanilla flavoring to make it more gooder.

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## cabingal4

the nut milks may be another option
cause we can make them ourselves.
almond nut milk...i bet that would be really tasty on a bowl of oatmeal.

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## DomC

> Over 20 years in Submarines - we got used to powdered milk.  Add a hint of vanilla flavoring to make it more gooder.


Don't forget powdered eggs, & potatoes....bug juice too.

DomC

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## LowKey

I'd be more worried about other things the frog might be adding to the milk other than peptides......

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## ElevenBravo

I think Ill stick to my Nido PSHTF, thank you very much.
EB

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## 1stimestar

Most people up here (other then town folk) use the shelf stable milk.  All the schools use it for lunches too.

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## LowKey

There are solar powered, kerosene powered and propane powered refrigerator and freezers out there.
Though I guess maybe frogs might be cheaper.

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## Batch

Yeah, there was a refrigeration system that was ammonia in a large black pipe and a radiator for a condenser. It worked by the expansion and contraction of the ammonia in the system and would make ice. When enough solar heat was unavailable, you could use fire.

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## cabingal4

today me and the mister went out to the sports store.
we went to the camp kitchen area.
an ice chest there was so wonderful.400$.lol.for an ice chest.
we might at well get a propane refrigerator.
lol.
and no frogs!

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## randyt

here is a link to preserving milk

http://www.fao.org/docrep/v6200t/v6200t0t.htm

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## hunter63

> today me and the mister went out to the sports store.
> we went to the camp kitchen area.
> an ice chest there was so wonderful.400$.lol.for an ice chest.
> we might at well get a propane refrigerator.
> lol.
> and no frogs!


Yeti coolers are really expensive......and still have a rubber latch?

Anyway, has anyone used or tried a spring house?

We used a plastic milk crate (the kind that says the if stolen, violators will be prosecuted?)...full of beer.... tied off in the river so it wouldn't float away....did OK, but a few cans (they sorta float) did get away......
Sort of a redneck beer cooler........Actually worked pretty well.

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## 1stimestar

My bush friends have an ice chest buried in a protected, covered spot off their porch.  It keeps things pretty cool.  If it starts to get warm, they water the dirt/sand surrounding it and it cools it off more.

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## Batch

> Yeti coolers are really expensive......and still have a rubber latch?
> 
> Anyway, has anyone used or tried a spring house?
> 
> We used a plastic milk crate (the kind that says the if stolen, violators will be prosecuted?)...full of beer.... tied off in the river so it wouldn't float away....did OK, but a few cans (they sorta float) did get away......
> Sort of a redneck beer cooler........Actually worked pretty well.


I have two of the Igloo version of the Yeti cooler. The Yukon. I have the 70 quart and the 150 quart. The 70 quart MSRP for $389.99 and the 150 for $579.99.  I have a friend who has a family member who is an executive in Igloo. So, I go both for less than the MSRP of the 70 quart alone.

They  are very heavy duty coolers that have dual locks. so they are bear proof and can be locked and chained to trees in camp. The non-slip on the bottom work very well. Though I flipped them because it is a pain getting them in and out of the truck with the non-skid pads on.

These coolers are built bomb proof and weigh a lot empty. They are perfect boat coolers and the heaviest person probably isn't going to hurt this cooler by standing on it. So, using it as a sighting, casting or poling platform. If you consider what a poling platform costs for a boat, a cheap one is almost $400.

http://www.boatoutfitters.com/fiberg...pU1hoCBdTw_wcB

My buddy has the seat cushion and just keeps one of these on his boat all the time.

I wouldn't pay any where near MSRP for these though. The secret to long lasting ice is cooler management. Get the cooler off the ground and in the shade. When we have big camping outings a couple of times a year we lock the coolers. Moving stuff out of the big coolers into the smaller coolers only once a day. If the lid is opened and closed all day long the insulation of the cooler doesn't matter.

I've owned and do own a lot of coolers. I would say never by a split lid cooler. Not the one that splits 50-50 not the big coolers with the little door in the lid. These coolers just flat out don't hold ice worth a carp.

If I had to go buy a cooler just for keeping ice and not to double as a seat or poling platform. I would buy the Coleman Marine Extreme.

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## cabingal4

1stimestar -this is what me and gary o were talking about.
thanks Batch ! some really good info here.

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## crashdive123

Evaporative fridges have been around for quite a long time.  Same principle as 1stimestar is talking about.  http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Pot-in-a-Pot-Refrigerator

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## randyt

I was thinking as cold as it gets there how about a icehouse? Freeze up blocks of ice and tuck them in the ice house for later.

Sylvan Hart would freeze up blocks of ice in the winter and then sell them to the river rafters during the summer.

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## cabingal4

> I was thinking as cold as it gets there how about a icehouse? Freeze up blocks of ice and tuck them in the ice house for later.
> 
> Sylvan Hart would freeze up blocks of ice in the winter and then sell them to the river rafters during the summer.


pretty good idea.we may have to think this one over.i sure think this is feasible.

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## Durtyoleman

The frog trick works great and as an added bonus the fly population seems to have --UUURP-- decreased around my house....

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## fjrmurph

Frogs + milk  
 i grew up on a dairy farm, a Jersey can give a lot of milk, i think you would have to have a big herd of frogs to get enough milk for your breakfast cereal. I've never tried to milk a frog ??? Just Saying

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## nell67

> I was thinking as cold as it gets there how about a icehouse? Freeze up blocks of ice and tuck them in the ice house for later.
> 
> Sylvan Hart would freeze up blocks of ice in the winter and then sell them to the river rafters during the summer.


The Amish build ice houses and use styrofoam blocks and/or straw bales as the insulating material.  The styrofoam blocks can be gotten for free from nearly any place that sells trailers, styrofoam blocks are used to keep the trailers from sliding and to separate them while being hauled. the blocks are 2-3x as large as the salt blocks used for cattle or for water softeners, so one block can be either used as is, or cut into slabs to insulate more area.

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## rebel

So, that's why there's a frog in every shelf milk carton.

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## Rollicks

I looked at a few articles about the frog thing and it sounds legit. Good to know, hope I don't find myself in a situation where I have a frog in one hand and a container of milk in the other. 

Another great whey to keep milk from going bad is to turn it into a hard cheese. It keeps for a long time and it doesn't need refrigeration. You put good bacteria in the milk and it will help to create an environment within the milk where bad bacteria won't want to live.

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## madmax

Big milk drinker here.  No frogs.

Now if I could get my wife to stop with the 2%...

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## kyratshooter

Amazing!!!

We have folk here that will not use a water filter unless if purifies to .02 microns and removes 99.9999% of all virus, bacteria and heavy metals...

Who are discussing allowing a frog to pi$$ in their milk!!!!

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