# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  The Knapping Thread - Show your projects, Discuss techniques, Give and receive advice

## preachtheWORD

So, there seems to be a handful of us here that are quite interested in flintknapping.  Perhaps it would be good of we could roll the topic into one comprehensive thread.  It might be useful for reference purposes.

Who knows, the "great and powerful Mods" might even sticky such a thread.  I am not worthy of so great an honor, but the subject may be.

*Things to do in the Knapping Thread:*

*1. Discuss knapping - techniques, tools, materials, etc
2. Show your projects, current attempts, etc.
3. Post links to useful information relevant to knapping
4. Ask questions and receive good advice about knapping
5. Answer questions and give good advice about knapping*
Hopefully this thread could become a good resource.

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## preachtheWORD

Okay, I'll make the first contribution.

About 15 years ago my Dad started knapping.  Back then I never really tried it myself, but by watching him I began to understand the basic concepts.  Very recently I decided it was time for me to do it for myself.

Yesterday I made my third point.  Here it is. (material: green obsidian)
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This sort of documents my progress so far.  From left to right, an obsidian spall, my first point, my second point, and my third point.
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I have had an incredible resource in learning to knap - my Dad.  He is quite experienced, patient, and has the time to teach me.  Below is some of his work, from 10+ years ago.  Two obsidian points: (sorry about the pic quality)
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And a decorative obsidian turtle that my Dad knapped.  It was a decoration that went with a soapstone peace pipe. (again, bad pic quality)
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Here are two websites that have pictures and descriptions of different kinds of historic stone points:
http://www.dhr.virginia.gov/arch_DHR/Points/psumm.xml
http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/


I hope to add more as we go along.  I really hope others will make contributions so we can get something like a "mini encyclopedia" on knapping going.

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## your_comforting_company

this might help some. Here is a pic of the posture I was shown to use. Notice I use my legs to help squeeze. Really it's my whole body, but you can easily see how the motions progress. squeeze and curl.
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It is also helpful to use a pencil or marker to highlight the ridges on the area you wish to remove a flake, like this:
mark the ridge on the spall
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now you can see the point you need to press. remember *posture and angle*!
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most of the ridge came off. you can see that the flake didn't travel very far because there is no convexity to the spall yet
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resulting debris and the ridge mark in my palm guard
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after a few passes, I marked all the ridges. this is a really helpful technique so that you can see your progress as you go.
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I'm definately not very good yet, but this helped me to see what needed to be done. Maybe it will help someone else too.

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## preachtheWORD

Great pics ycc!  Good ideas and a good mini tutorial.  That is what I want this thread to be about - to help people learn and improve upon skills in knapping.

My style is a little different, as are my tools.  I really need to get some pics up.

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## Deadly Tao

Great idea for a thread, I will be moving the more information dense posts from mine into this one via copy/paste, and of course condense them appropriately to avoid spamming everything....

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## Deadly Tao

I decided, since glass is everywhere, I would start learning the tricks of flintknapping with just that - glass. Here's the first bottle bottom I started with:

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The uniform bumps in the second image are from the bottle's original shape. I wish I could make my flakes that uniform...

Later on (a couple broken projects later) I managed to reduce my first point:

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...and have been working a few new pieces to learn how to take longer flakes more consistently. I broke 2 in a row hitting them on a ridge. For some reason I never learn my lesson... when striking glass, striking onto what's a ridge on both sides is a terrible idea, and will break it. That said, I did get a few nice flakes. One of which made it half way across... only one, but I'll take it.

Here's some notes I've gathered which are also found in my original thread "First Flintknapping Experiences":

-Maintaining Good Form
I found that I get a little bit worse and worse as I go and a good way to fix that is to stop knapping, take a look at the piece to determine what should be done next, and most importantly, correct my grip on my billet (which is my pocket knife's back end). Just correcting the grip improves my accuracy back to where it was and seems to give me larger more uniform flakes. Perhaps not everybody has this problem, but I loosen and loosen my grip as I go subconsciously and I pay for it, so the first thing I do when it start to get difficult is check my grip, the angle of the piece, and if that's really where I should be working on it.

-Correcting Flukes and Problem Areas
When addressing a very small area which needs to be fixed, like a shelf or a squared edge, I used to focus on it and start whapping away to solve the problem. However, just like any process of reducing material (sanding, grinding, whittling, etc.), I found that success only found me when I took my time with wider 'runs' making my way all the way across the edge until the problem was solved. When I decided to just hammer off the defects, it usually hinged or destroyed any pattern I had going. If I started from the beginning of the edge and worked my way across, providing more concentration and perhaps taking some bigger flakes at the problem area, I could rid myself of the defect and be left with a still uniform piece.

-Angle of strike
I have been paying attention to what angles make what flakes, to learn how to properly hit it before I start shaping the piece. <(!this is corrected below!) -- So far it's taught me that a more glancing blow, or shallower angle, creates a much larger flake -- >. It's also wider, but I will keep in mind that it may be wider simply because of how steep the edge is. I am still hitting the original face to create a bevel, I haven't yet begun to strike onto a bevel yet. This is contradictory to what I have read and I assume it's only true for striking at square edges. But I can't deny the results, so I will have to say that, when dealing with square edges, I can make quick work of them by striking with more glancing blows. (Just to clarify, the shallow of glancing blows hit the piece at an angle that moves down and away from the center of the piece, not toward it. I am afraid that if I hit it toward the center, more parallel to the piece, I will simply break it, since I am using hard steel on fragile glass.)

!-- I'm correcting some earlier notes. Indeed the more glancing the blow was, the larger the flake. However, this is because I was hitting a square edge, and a more glancing blow was just simply more appropriate of an angle. I have learned now that to achieve longer flakes, when you are striking onto bevels (which is normally what you're doing), you should strike into the piece very slightly, not away from it.

-Follow Through
It occurred to me from the very beginning that I should follow through with my strikes. As with anything you swing or strike, it makes sense to follow through. However, I have noticed that the benefit and consistency gained from properly following through with my strikes is amplified when I am hitting it properly and at the correct angle. Therefore, I can assume that it's easier to find the correct angle and proper hit when you are following through as well. So from now on, I think I will make sure to follow through with every strike.

And a disclaimer, just for you: I have only knapped about 6 pieces of glass, and 0 pieces of stone (going to put some effort into hunting stone soon, but still using up these bottles). Although all experience is genuine, this is as limited and context specific as it gets. Therefore, I don't want you to treat my notes as professional instructions, because they're far from it. Instead, these are simply my observations over a short experience with flintknapping and if you have a hard time with the advice they give, just forget about it and look it up somewhere else.

I hope this post helps your thread!

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## canid

here's some stuff i happened to have handy in the same album [amazingly, i _am_ organized from time to time].

this is a pendant i made. i believe it was a swiller's lowlife bottle bottom:
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these are a couple of my first beer bottle points:
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this was porcelain from a broken sink i found by the side of a road:
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this hawk head was made from basalt i found in oregon, which had a very clear grain, glassy ring and was hard as satan's bunions to knap. the next time i work basalt, i'm power-grinding it.
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this is a preform for a larger point than i usually make, made from a broken ashtray i found while excavating my current garden:
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and here it is finished:
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here is an assortment of knapable stone from california and oregon. i keep this around as a visual aid, to show people what kinds of stone i'm talking about**:
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here is an obsidian microlith on a glowgun dart [the fur was later trimmed to a reasonable volume]:
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not a lot of useful tips, advice, etc, but it does show a few ideas for projects.

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## preachtheWORD

Candid -

Wow!  That is some really excellent work!  I especially like the first "pendant" point.  I can see some really good pressure flakes that go all the way across.  Looks like you really know your stuff.

Out of curiosity, did you try to pressure flake that big chunk of basalt, or did you percussion flake it?  (I think that is the right term for working the stone by striking it?)


Deadly Tao - 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I hope to start working on knapping some glass very soon.  I hear that it flakes easily but also breaks easily.


Happy Knapping!

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## your_comforting_company

PTW, in all my limited experience, glass and obsidian behave the same way.
I have a question about hawk handles: What's the best way you've found for grooving your handle to mount the stone? I tried the burning ember and straw-blowing on a piece of red-tip yesterday, but that wood doesn't burn well at all, so I'm looking for an alternative, whether it's a diff method or just diff wood.
suggestions?
and your bindings: how do you seal off your sinew? hide glue? pine pitch? both?

Nice looking points btw. I broke 2 and finished 1 crappy one yesterday. no pic.. it wasn't a proud piece lol. I'm gonna throw it in somebody's driveway and let their kids find it.

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## crashdive123

Its been awhile since I have banged on rocks  guess I got side tracked with steel.  You guys inspired me to go out today before the rains and make a few tools.  They arent pretty, but they are functional.  I used a little flint and some coral.

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I used a small piece of bamboo and some palmetto leaf cordage to attach this small blade and make it easier to work with.  It sliced through that piece of leather as easily as any knife.

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## preachtheWORD

Crash - I really like the blade in the handle.  Nothing fancy, just functional.  I have seen some "show piece" knapping work that didn't seem functional at all.  Those long, thin blades look great - but will probably break under much pressure.

YCC - I hope you were asking Candid about the tomahawk handles.  I have no idea yet.  With a metal bladed knife you could carve the "notch" out, but with "primative" tools I imagine it gets much harder.  Could you describe the "burning ember straw-blowing" method?

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## hunter63

WOW, I am impressed by all of your work.
Keep it up guys, I'm enjoying these.

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## canid

preach: i used both techniques. i roughed it out from a large spall [over 12x8"] that i knocked off of a boulder.

the thinner i had it, the worse the flake angles seemed to get, and by the end of it [you can see the last flakes taken off from the edge] i could only get decent flakes off from thin sections.

the edge was finished by flaking. the basal end was basically clumsily bashed it into shape. this stuff does not behave terribly predictably, and it chews copper to pieces.

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## Ted

GREAT, GREAT STUFF!!!!! Thank you gentleman!

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## your_comforting_company

basically it's just like it sounds. you put a hot coal on top of whatever you want a hole in, and use a straw to blow the heat down onto the surface. any plant with a hollow center will work, bamboo comes to mind as an easy one, but I had a plastic straw handy.
after a few minutes of burning and blowing, normally you would chip / grind / scrape out the char, drop another coal in, and blow some more. kind of tedious, but would probably work well on a wood that's a little less dense. Red Tips hardly burn in a bonfire, so not really a suitable wood for this method. I tried to find a nice piece of hickory or cedar today, but kinda got sidetracked with wildflowers lol.
of course it takes a bigger coal than this, but you'll get the idea.
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I think with this wood i'd fare better getting _a different wood_ lol. really hard stuff though so there ought to be some good uses for it. Naturally this could be more easily accomplished with modern tools, but you know me, I like doing stuff the hard way  :Blushing:  I read about this hafting method in "Naked Into the Wilderness" and have done it on some soft stuff that wasn't good for anything, but just thought about trying it again.
I went as far as to line the area I didn't want to burn with clay and piling coals into the "pit" and blowing. this wood is just too hard. I have a couple pieces of other stuff to try, maybe with some pics with results  :Wink:

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## preachtheWORD

> the edge was finished by flaking. the basalt end was basically clumsily bashed it into shape. this stuff does not behave terribly predictably, and it chews copper to pieces.


Man, it looks good to me,  I bet it would make a very functional stone axe.  I have always had my doubts about how useful a stone axe would be, but from the looks of that it would work very well.

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## preachtheWORD

ycc - Okay, now I get the "straw and coal" thing.  I thought you meant the other kind of straw - dried grass.

Desire to be "primitive" aside, that method seems painfully tedious.  I could see using it to drill a hole, but to hollow out a haft seems like an extreme amount of work compared to the end result.  But I don't know that I have a better method that does not emply modern tools.

I have mounted "heads" to "handles" before by splitting a green stick, wedging the head between the splits, and lashing it all together to keep it from splitting further.  But it only works well if you have a very flat head to mount in the handle.  I suppose you could scrape down the wood after you have split it to make room for the head.

Do you suppose that a stone axehead could be hafted by scraping down a long green stick in the middle, heating and bending it until you have basically folded it in half, putting the head in and lashing it down?  Sounds like it would work to me.  The green wood should shrink up and tighten down on the head.  Just a thought.

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## canid

> I have always had my doubts about how useful a stone axe would be, but from the looks of that it would work very well.


some materials are better suited than others [the obsidian axe was more of a decorative item], but basalt is hard as all get out. stone axes are generally used much more gingerly, to to make smaller cuts per stroke than metal ones.




> I thought you meant the other kind of straw - dried grass.


 that's exactly where the word comes from, and grass/reed stalks have been used for all sorts of things from pipe stems to drinking straws.




> Do you suppose that a stone axehead could be hafted by scraping down a long green stick in the middle, heating and bending it until you have basically folded it in half, putting the head in and lashing it down?


it's been done historically, so yes, i'm sure it could.

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## your_comforting_company

the straw and coal works really well on soft wood, but you dont really want soft wood for a tool handle. I gotta try some other materials. Like many things primitive, it is rather tedious, but when you're talking about burning calories, this is far less taxing than say, drilling enough holes with a hand or bow drill, provided you have time.
Like I say, I read about it, but have yet to see it prove to be a useful method with hard wood. works good on soft stuff.

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## preachtheWORD

I sat down yesterday and knapped a half-dozen points, and boy is my left hand and wrist sore!  I'm still getting used to the awkward way you have to hold your wrist.  And even with a doubled layer of leather I have put a sore spot on my palm from jamming my flaker into it.  But that's the price you pay.  My hands will toughen up sooner or later.

Here are the points I knapped yesterday.  Most of them came from very small pieces of material.  Some of them are really a little small for practical use, but they made good practice.
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*FIRST ROW*: The first two are *white quartz*.  This is the stone that the natives in my area most commonly used for knapping until they obtained better stone through trade.  It knaps okay, but the flakes are really short.  You typically end up with a much thicker point.  Some of the original points that I have found were almost cylindrical.  Second is a point made of *glass* from a bottle bottom.  This was my first attempt at knapping glass.  It was definitely easier than stone.  I am just glad I didn't break it.
*SECOND ROW*:  First, another *white quartz* piece.  It doesn't look very nice, but it looks a lot like many of the original points I have found in my area.  Second is a piece of *gray obsidian*.  It was very small, but I was happy with it.  As for the final point, *I have no idea what the material is*, except that _it is a nightmare to work with_!  It reminded me of a gravel.  It was exceedingly hard, but tended to crumble rather than flake.  As you can see, I never even got the stone "cleaned up."  I couldn't get it notched out like I wanted either.  Maybe somebody can clue me in to what the material is.  But I do know what kind of material it is - bad.


Here is a closer shot of the only two points I knapped yesterday that I was really satisfied with (despite their size.)
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Here is a picture of all the points that I have knapped so far.  Nothing impressive, but I am pretty happy with my progress.  I know I can make a good point out of good material.  Now I want to learn to make a good point out of bad material.
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I look forward to some more posts and pics!

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## crashdive123

Well done.  In order to alleviate the pressure and pain in your wrist, do more percussion knapping.  I have found that when I do, the bruises on my left thigh usually take my mind off my wrist.

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## your_comforting_company

Amazing stuff PTW. I broke all but one I made this week. Bad rock is just bad lol.
You are making some amazing progress. The first one in the second row looks twisted. like it has a "spiraled" edge. If that's the case, how do you maintain the thickness while making the twist?
I gotta get Craig to show me that trick, but he's been sick lately, so I'm not taking any chances with him!

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## canid

> Well done.  In order to alleviate the pressure and pain in your wrist, do more percussion knapping.  I have found that when I do, the bruises on my left thigh usually take my mind off my wrist.


i've also gotta recommend the ishi stick. having such a long lever allows you to do the pushing with your forearm and thigh, and your wrist needn't move at all.

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## crashdive123

> i've also gotta recommend the ishi stick. having such a long lever allows you to do the pushing with your forearm and thigh, and your wrist needn't move at all.


I made one, but have not gotten the hang of it yet.

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## canid

it's taking me a while too, but it's working out much better on my wrist.

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## your_comforting_company

Not sure what an ishi stick is, I gotta look that up, but I use my legs and forearms more than anything. I actually finished a small spade point tonight out of that crappy rock I've been breaking all week. My new fire-sticks aren't quite dry enough yet, since it rained on them yesterday, so I decided banging on rocks was the way to go tonight.

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## crashdive123

It's a much longer tool for your pressure flaking.  One that you can kind of use your body instead of your wrist/hand.  The one I made is about 30 inches long.

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## canid

yeah, it's just a flaker with a stout handle, long enough to brace the piece against your thich, and brace the flaker against your forearm, so you just push your arm and the leg supporting the workpiece together, instead of pushing with your hand and turning your wrist.

it's better for larger, heavier flaking, but as i've been told by people who's oppinions i respect [and carpel tunnel syndrome i don't envy], you should learn to do it for *any* flaking heavy enough to cause the slightest wrist discomfort.

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## hunter63

Nice work, boys, you are really getting down to the details.

Just a question, is anyone trying any particular style, or era? 
Or just using available material determine final shape?

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## canid

i use whatever i can get my hands on, and i just try to let the rock become what it's inclined to, rather than pursuing any particular form or style, lest it seem forced.

i'll learn to do more specific point/tool types as my skill progresses.

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## your_comforting_company

I Let the rock be what it wants to be. most times it seems it wants to be smaller rocks lol. I don't do styles other than basic outline shapes for tools, like drill bits. That reminds me.. I never did post pics of my drill. For points, I take what I get from the rock. When my skills improve, I might be able to force shapes, but for now, I don't worry about it.

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## preachtheWORD

> In order to alleviate the pressure and pain in your wrist, do more percussion knapping.  I have found that when I do, the bruises on my left thigh usually take my mind off my wrist.


I would really like to learn how to percussion flake.  I know that the basic principle is to whack the stone with another stone or tool.  But something tells me that there is an art to it.

Would someone with some experience on the matter care to put together and post a tutorial on percussion flaking with descriptions, pictures, etc.?  That would be very useful.

Thanks guys.  I have been away all weekend and I am glad to be back home - at my house and on WSF

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## preachtheWORD

> The first one in the second row looks twisted. like it has a "spiraled" edge. If that's the case, how do you maintain the thickness while making the twist?


That particular point looks like that more because of the shape and nature of the stone than because of anything I did.  It was a thicker piece of quartz with a big lump on it.  I chose to work with the lump instead of working against it, and the result was a thicker, more twisted point.  From a practical sense, I figured the point would be just as functional, even if it looked rough.  

This white quartz was by far the most used local knapping stone in my area.  It is much different than obsidian, glass, or chert.  You can't get long flakes, and it can come off in chunks.  But really, I don't think it was all that much harder to work with if you are wanting a purely functional point.  But it would not be ideal for making a "show point."




> I Let the rock be what it wants to be.





> i use whatever i can get my hands on, and i just try to let the rock become what it's inclined to, rather than pursuing any particular form or style, lest it seem forced.


This is pretty much my philosophy, too.  Rather than deciding ahead of time what style of point I want to make, I let the stone tell me.

I hope to knapp a few more between now and tommorrow evening.  I sure would like to see what you guys are working on.

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## preachtheWORD

Today I made a little more progress.  I worked with a hammerstone for the first time.  I used the hammerstone to percussion flake two glass points and a point made from some very hard chert-like stone.  I started by percussion flaking and finished them by pressure flaking.  Here are some pictures and explanations.


This is my hammerstone (it is quartzite, I think), and half of the bottom of a big jar.  I started with the whole thing but broke it right in half not long after starting.
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The same piece of glass after roughing it down with the hammerstone.
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Now here it is after some pressure flaking.
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The finished point:
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Here are the three points I made today.
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My first experiences with percusion flaking were pretty good.  I broke a few pieces along the way, but overall it was not as hard as I expected.  I would like to hear about the experiences you guys have had.

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## crashdive123

Nice work.  You really are doing well.

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## Batch

Nice work PTW!

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## your_comforting_company

Did you hold the glass out in front of you, or did you brace it on your leg? I got some old carpet I use to pad my leg when I get down to the nitty gritty.

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## preachtheWORD

> Did you hold the glass out in front of you, or did you brace it on your leg? I got some old carpet I use to pad my leg when I get down to the nitty gritty.


To percusion flake the glass I rested my wrist on my leg and struck downward with the hammerstone, with a bucket underneath to catch the shrapnel.  That worked pretty good.  For tougher stone I braced most of my hand on my leg.
When I am pressure flaking I lay an old piece of rug across my lap upside down to catch the flakes and keep the bucket in front of me to dump them in.  I haven't gotten to the point where I have to used anything pad my leg.  Maybe I'm not doing it right?


Well, here is this afternoon's progress:
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The top left is from the bottom of a bottle.  The smaller glass point is a recycled piece from a broken earlier attempt at a larger point.  The small obsidian point is also from the remains of a broken earlier attempt.  The larger obsidian point is from very rough spall.  The orange point is from a very thin flake of some kind of very hard stone, not sure what it is.

*It has been fun posting my stuff, but I would much rather see something from you other guys!  So put up your pictures!*

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## canid

looks like a rose quartz, and it looks like it's got some nice banding [i guess that would make it an agate?]. i think i've still got one small rose quartz point.

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## your_comforting_company

> ...  Maybe I'm not doing it right?


LOL. You gotta be kidding me! You are definately doing something *right*!

It seems easier for me to brace the piece against my leg and hold the back edge down with my left hand. I strike at the edge with a glancing blow and the billet hits my leg. I do some held out in front, but that's usually just for roughing spalls into thinner pieces.
I'd post up pics, but somehow I keep breaking them. Also been pretty busy with the garden lately, but I'll get back on it soon. I need more practice!

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## Rick

That is some beautiful work.

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## preachtheWORD

Here are the points I knapped yesterday.  I am running low on good material, and it shows.  I mostly have very small flakes and some hard and crumbly stuff.  I need to stock back up on some good stuff.  On a good note, I am getting much faster.  I knapped these six points in about 2:45.

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The first two in the top row are smoky obsidian - small but pretty.  I haven't got a clue what the material in the top right point is.  It was really crumbly and wanted to crush rather than flake.  The two white point are quartz.  The one on the left was really uncooperative - full of fractures and lumps.  The bigger one was much better in consistency, but it had a big lump on one side that I couldn't pop off with a hammerstone or pressure flaker.  I don't know if you would call it a really big arrowhead or a relly small spear point.  The last is glass.  I was in a hurry to finish and did not thin it out enough.  That is why the notches look bad.

Hey guys, post your work!

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## your_comforting_company

Those obsidian points are looking better all the time. You're really improving! I haven't had a chance to knap any lately, but I found an old toilet tank a few days ago that someone threw out on a dirt road. Gonna try some of that for big percussion spearpoints. Got a lot going on lately with hit-and-miss work, the garden, and honey-dew. I'll get back on it as soon as I get time. Got a piece of rock from one of the guys at the building supply house and he told me to come get all the rocks I wanted, so hopefully there'll be some good stuff there.
Keep up the good work PTW. I've got the fever, just not the time  :Big Grin:

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## preachtheWORD

I did three more points today.  My hands are getting a little sore.  Here's to hoping they will toughen up soon!

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The material of the left point is "johnstone," aka a toilet tank lid!  It worked pretty good and I thought the point turned out good.  The middle point was from a big shard of glass.  I was a little nervous working on that one!  The third point was from a very granular white quartz I found behind my house.  It was terrible for knapping.  I was almost impossible to spall into any kind of workable flake.  It breaks easily when percussion flaking, and crushes instead of flaking when a percussion flaker.  I know it looks terrible, but I am just happy that I could get anything remotely resembling a point out of it.  I doubt it would be functional though.

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## your_comforting_company

you are really turning out some fine points there, even from the bad rocks. I only had a few minutes to bang on the Johnstone yesterday. Hopefully I'll have more time this weekend to get back on knapping. Nice work!

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## your_comforting_company

Johnstone, aka, toilet tank ceramic is not the best thing to knap, but it's good for practice, because if you break it, it's not like you ruined good flint. I found some discarded on a dirt road the other day, so I brought it home and broke it into smaller pieces for practice with percussion. Here's how it went...
A nice slab for me to break
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and break it did!
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I used the top piece for a while and it broke too just as I was getting a good edge. Oh well, here's the result of that.
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Not the result I was hoping for but was a good opportunity to show the leg bracing technique I use for percussion knapping in the next post.

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## your_comforting_company

I use a piece of old carpet for padding. Much better than banging bruises on my leg and driving flakes into it. The carpet is pictured above and this is the basic posture I use. You can see that I am able to hold the piece at a nice driving angle to get flakes to run further. Too steep an angle and it'll still hinge, but I don't seem to make the waves in the flakes the way holding a piece out front of me seems to.
This allows for more stability and accuracy. Two shots so hopefully you can see what's going on.
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Normally I would be sitting in a chair, but I couldn't find something the right height for the camera to get a good shot. Still the method is the same. Brace the piece on the outside of my leg, and drive the billet straight down in a glancing blow on the prepared platform edge of the piece. I hope that explains it well enough, because it really is that simple..

Here are the results of percussion knapping yesterday. The point on the left is johnstone.. not exactly perfect, but I didn't pressure flake anything.. I only used the billet to make the point. The second point (on the right) is some rock Craig gave to me. I think it's chert. It's not the best stuff, but after slowly and deliberately peeling off the remaining cortex and getting to the good rock, I was left with a preform worthy of a spearpoint.
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## your_comforting_company

This is the best piece I've turned out lately that had any size to it. It is the second percussioned (is that even a word?) point pictured above, but I just wasn't satisfied, so I got my pressure flaker and went to work. After about an hour of refining, thinning, and trimming, This is what I wound up with.
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The mosquitos came out and I had to retreat indoors, so maybe I'll get a chance to do some more knapping tomorrow.

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## crashdive123

Nice work on the Johnny Chert.

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## preachtheWORD

ycc, thanks for the tutorial on percussion flaking.  I am doing it quite differently.  I will have to try your method.  It seems way more precise.  Now I understand what you meant about having to pad your leg.

Here are a few points I made over the weekend:
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Most are obsidian from broken pieces and very small pieces.  The first was from a very thin flake.  This may be my favorite of the 33 points I have made as of 4-3-2010.  It looks like several originals I have seen.  The bigger white one is "johnstone."  This piece was a lot of trouble.  It started out about times that wide, but the glazed sides would never "clean up."  I ended up with this narrow point and it still wasn't totally cleaned up.  The smaller white piece is quartz.  I can see why the natives in my area were very eager to trade for some other type of material.  Quartz just doesn't cooperate.  Wish I could get it to, because it could be very nice looking.

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## your_comforting_company

the three obsidian pieces on the right are very nice. I'm particularly fond of that clovis style. Have you tried hafting any yet?
That johnstone piece turned out pretty nice too! I wouldn't put much weight on keeping it.. all my johnstone pieces are real brittle and most break before I'm done. on the bright side, I'm filling up some mud-holes in the driveway  :Big Grin:  Good for practice though!
the bottom left piece looks like the "Kentucky Hornstone" Poco sent to me. I gotta try some more of that soon. It's like carving soap and I just LOVE it.
the top left one has a good hunk left in it.. have you tried using your flaker to remove those pesky hinges? you have to hold the piece in a really awkward position and it takes a good bit more pressure from your arms, but I've successfully removed a couple that way.. I've also broken several trying to remove the "cliffs" too, so be easy. Still has a nice shape.
Good work PTW! keep 'em coming!

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## your_comforting_company

My latest. Flint River Honey. This was found north of the fall line by a diver. Good stuff. It flakes as well as the stuff Poco sent from the mountains without being cooked.

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## your_comforting_company

Batteries died in the camera while I was doing this and only got a few other crappy pictures with a friends camera phone, but hopefully you can tell what's gonig on here. I'll get some pics of the hole with the hawk head in it later today when I get some fresh batteries.
Coal and Straw "Fire drilling method". Basically you put a hot coal on the piece you want a hole in, use a straw of some sort, (horseweed, cane, bamboo, etc.; I used a plastic straw) and blow on the down on the coal till it's VERY hot and the wood underneath with get hot enough to burn. Use a rock or knife to dig out the charred stuff, drop in another coal and keep going.
The other pics we took were pretty blurry, but I'll post the results of a couple hours work later.
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## FVR

Wow, how did I ever miss this thread?

I could take some lessons here.

Nice rocks.

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## your_comforting_company

Most of the phone pictures were really blurry and not much good, so all I have to show is the results of the coal and straw drilling method.
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The hardest part is keeping the coal ON the wood while blowing.
The straw itself needs to have an extra tube on the bottom to catch all the spit that likes to fall out and onto your nice hot wood, putting it out. It took me a while to get the hang of it, but it was a really effective method for drilling requiring few tools and few calories. All I had to do was breathe a little harder than normal. A straw and a scraping rock for removing the char made up my tools for this job.

The extra space will be filled with wood shavings for cushion and packed with pine pitch glue, then wrapped with twined sinew, extra around the handle to keep from splitting.

so that's all I have for a lesson in hot coal drilling and hafting right now. stay tuned!

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## crashdive123

Well done YCC.

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## preachtheWORD

That is a very nice skull cracker, ycc!  Thanks for the tutorial on the straw and coal method.  I will have to try it.  I really want to make a tomahawk, but I don't have any material big enough yet.  But when I do I may just try hafting it that way.

By the way, what stone did you use for the head, and what wood did you use for the handle?  And what did you use for the straw?

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## your_comforting_company

The stone is some serpentenite (I guess) that I sourced from some boulders near my MIL house. I have some pictures of us spalling it out somewhere.. I'll get them uploaded soon. Very glassy and VERY hard to knap
The handle is a piece of cherry from a tree that was removed at my co-workers house.
the straw was just a regular plastic straw. No cane in walking distance, but I gotta figure out something besides plastic because it blows spit everywhere. Needs a spit-trap on it.

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## crashdive123

> The stone is some serpentenite (I guess) that I sourced from some boulders near my MIL house. I have some pictures of us spalling it out somewhere.. I'll get them uploaded soon. Very glassy and VERY hard to knap
> The handle is a piece of cherry from a tree that was removed at my co-workers house.
> the straw was just a regular plastic straw. No cane in walking distance, but I gotta figure out something besides plastic because it blows spit everywhere. Needs a spit-trap on it.


I used a piece of copper tubing (ice maker line size) and bent a small "p" trap in it.  I didn't spit on the coals once.

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## your_comforting_company

Cool! I actually have a piece of copper tubing that came off an old junk compressor that is shaped like a P-trap. Good Idea!!
I also thought of drilling the pith out of some cane at a branch node.. I'll try to stop somewhere today and get some more cane and make one and maybe try it at the festival this weekend. The straight part of the cane would be the straw, and the branch would be the spit collector. hold a finger over the end of it as you blow and when taking in a breath, drop the spit out... I'll be playing with it some more to see what I can come up with.

The strangest thing about the rock is that as much as I've scoured an area within 5 counties, this is the only good quality stone I've found. All the inclusions are well silicated and it's pretty neat that all the little crustaceans glow in the sunlight if you hold it up. 

Would it be a good idea to post pics of source rocks here or do you think another thread would be more appropriate?

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## your_comforting_company

Ok.. I'm gonna include the crappy phone pics. I assume this is what it's supposed to look like.. you blow on the coal till it gets the wood underneath hot enough to flame.

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## your_comforting_company

What little research I've done on rocks indicates this is called "serpentenite". I really have no idea and I don't know why only these 2 boulders exist within 5 counties, but I found something knappable at least, even if it is 25 miles away (how long would it take to walk 25 miles plus 10 miles from the BOL?)
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an inside look
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some ?Jasper? with LOTS of inclusions.
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I have made a hand drill bit and a fishing harpoon out of the last stuff, and have only spalled a few flakes to knap later, from the top stuff. I'm eager to try it and hope I get a chance this weekend to let some pros have a go at it. Maybe I'll get a chance this evening to go source some more. Would be neat to have an extra bit for the trade blanket this weekend  :Big Grin:

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## crashdive123

Looks like the pictures fit just fine right where you put them.

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## preachtheWORD

Looking at that serpentinite, I wonder if that is the same stuff of a different color that I made the orange point in post #38 with?

It looks extremely hard, but also very durable.

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## your_comforting_company

It's a small world. The knapper at the Culture Festival this past weekend told me that he used to live around the town where I found those huge boulders. He showed me a scar on his hand where one of the pieces he was spalling fell off the boulder and smashed his hand. He lives around Columbus now, but it's funny how I met someone with experience that could tell me for sure that those are just about the only stones around here with any knappability (is that a word?)

to cut to the chase, I studied his movements intently for a long time and asked him questions about hinges and step fractures, platforms and setting up the ridges. I watched him shoot flakes across 2-3" spans across obsidian. WOW.
What I'm about to show is no comparison to his abilities, but maybe it will show others how to go about thinning a piece down. It's a large spall that was really thick on one side. I wanted to make a knife blade from it so I work it a little, now and then, when I get bored. Here goes.
This shows the fat part I want to thin, approximate "push" angle into the piece, and resulting flakes with regard to platform prep for the next flake.
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after being flipped to lower the edge, the process is repeated until...
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and after a few passes like that...
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Here you'll be able to see the long flakes running across the face of the piece. Notice they meet in the middle of the face. Beautiful, if I do say so myself.
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there's really a lot more to it than that.. several of the ridges were already set up as I've worked the piece before. The energy of the push will follow the ridges and each long flake should be isolated before pushing or striking. Proper set-up for each strike or push is essential. Mr. Knapper demonstrated this to grand effect on obsidian.

Here is a link I found elsewhere with some really in-depth knapping instructions and pretty darn good pictures. Maybe I won't get in trouble for posting the link. If it's out of place, mods please remove it. A good sized PDF so you can store it.. hey, it's a free book!
http://www.raems.com/PDF/flintknapping.pdf

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## your_comforting_company

The morning of the event, I woke up super excited and ready to go. While everyone else was waking up and getting ready, I decided I'd do a little knapping since I didn't want to get all brain-stinky working with a buckskin I took (still soaked in brains in 85* heat.. ewww). It was my morning meditation and while remembering all the things I've learned, I made this little piece.
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The Master Knapper was not demonstrating (although the guy demo-ing was definately a master himself) but rather trying to sell points he made. I showed him this piece and told him I'd only been knapping less than a year. He said this piece was amazing for someone with such little experience, and I tell you that was a great vote of confidence for this wannabe knapper. He told me what the style was, and I told him "I dont' know anything about styles, I let the rock be what it wants to be". He chuckled and said "That rock wanted to be something pretty, huh?"
I guess so. What do you think?

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## preachtheWORD

Very, very good work.  You are inspiring me to get back to knapping.  I had to take a couple weeks off of knapping because I have been extremely busing with work.  Anybody who thinks preachers work one day a week should try it sometime, especially when you have a three funerals back to back and a bunch of people in the hospital!  On top of that I am trying to finish my Bachelor's Degree in the next few weeks.  Something had to give, and it was knapping.  I should be back to work soon though!

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## crashdive123

Great work YCC.

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## preachtheWORD

Finally, I am back to knapping!

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Two glass points and an obsidian point.  I liked how the middle point turned out pretty good.  The obsidian point is a new style that I am trying out.  Not sure what you call it - "ptW style" I guess.


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The first point was from a very thin flake of something - I'm not sure what.  The green point is from a *stained glass window*.  (No, I didn't throw a rock through the Church window!)  This stuff is really thin and ridiculously fragile.  Out of about attempts, this is the only point that I could get finished - and it doesn't look too good.  The notches need work, but I was afraid to mess with it any more.  The third point is from something my Dad called *neviculite* (sp?)  It looks kinda like that "serpentinite" boulder ycc posted.  It did not flake nearly as well as I thought it would - it tended to "layer" on me.  The first point on the bottom row is some kind of obsidian or flint - not sure.  But I know that it knaps very well.  I like making points in that style, too.  The small obsidian point was supposed to be the same style, but I broke one of the "flukes" off, so I just made it match on the other side and went on.  The next is another obsidian piece.  The final is a glass point made from the thick bottom of a kitchen glass.  It did not work nearly as well as i had hoped.  It was just _too_ thick.

It's nice to be back knapping!

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## your_comforting_company

Wow, that is some amazing stuff PTW. The black piece on the left looks like the stuff Poco sent me from his yard. Craig called it Kentucky Hornstone, I think. The way I heard the other stuff called was nervaculite, but I was told it by a redneck, lol. I don't know how I missed this post.
that neviculite is a LOT glossier than the stuff I found.
I haven't managed to finish anything lately, broken a bunch.
Great work!

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## rwc1969

Looks real nice. Now go out and stick something.

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## justin_baker

Man i want to get into knapping, but its so too much to bite at once! Im going to learn to make bone arrowheads first, they are way easier. Before making flint knives, im going to make stone tools like a hammer and a chisel.

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## your_comforting_company

Justin, if you start off like I did, basically just getting a feel for the mechanics, then find a mentor to ask questions once in a while, it's not too overwhelming. I think most new knappers expect to turn out stuff like PTW is making on their first try, and it just doesn't happen. Even with an expert knapper that he can visit any time, PTW still started off with rough pieces and worked his way up to the beautiful points you see above.
Start off with single strike flakes and figure out how to strike and push, and all that stuff as you go from rough to smooth, and keep your expectations low. Single strike tools were more widely used than finely chipped points. hand axes, knives, drill bits, and the like are the tools you'd want to start making.
I encourage you to take up the skill as a personal resource. I think PTW would agree that it's really not that overwhelming when you actually start doing it. I do know how overwhelming it seems from a distance, though.
Bone is another great material to make things from. It's easy to grind into a consistent shape, and you can get it pretty darn sharp! I'm eager to see some bone arrowheads you've made, so take some pics for us when you make some!!

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## justin_baker

Hey, does anyone know how are notches are made for arrowheads? I know that it would be easy with a saw, but how was it done primitively? If you tried to cut into the shaft of the arrow with a knife, it would seem that you would just make a split in it. I guess you could slowly and carefully saw it out with a knife, but i dont know how well that would work. 
Im talking about this kind of notch in the shaft:
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## your_comforting_company

I use another rock to sort of saw into the shaft. Hide glue (or other) will keep it from splitting and wrapping like your picture there will reinforce the notch.

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## justin_baker

Any tips on treees that make good arrow shafts?
The trees around here are:
valley oak
live oak
douglas fir
california bay
california buckeye
oregon ash
madrone

and that is basically it, at least for the few valleys that i like to play around in.None of these seem very promising from my observations.

I know that there are willow trees around here somewhere but i have to look for them, do willow trees make good arrow shafts?

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## your_comforting_company

sapling shoots that grow straight up from the root. Around here several species of oak and willow, but mostly river cane was used. arrowheads were attached to a removable shaft that would fit into the cane. If it's straight and sturdy, and about the right weight, I'd say give it a try.
FVR is the man with the answers to this question. I'm sure several different woods were used. He probably has more info on historic shafts.

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## maker_of_fire

Looks good to me son. Thats my boy   Need info on hand ax

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## Rick

What kind of hand axe are you looking for? Gene did an experiment some time back. He split a sapling, inserted a stone axe and let the tree grow around it. Pretty solid.

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## maker_of_fire

The hand axe I am talking about is the kind where you hold the stone in your hand and chop with it - no handle.

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## maker_of_fire

Here are some stone knives that I knapped and set.

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The knife on top is more of a showpiece, while the one on the bottom is really more for practical use.

I set the blade in the antler handle using really wet rawhide strips.  When they dried and shrank, the blade was locked in tight - without glue or anything else.

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## your_comforting_company

Excellent work! The rawhide still has the hide glues in it so that helps with the setting. Beautiful pieces!

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## preachtheWORD

Good work.  See - maker_of_fire is the guy I learned from!

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## crashdive123

Awesome work!

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## canid

> Any tips on treees that make good arrow shafts?
> The trees around here are:
> valley oak
> live oak
> douglas fir
> california bay
> california buckeye
> oregon ash
> madrone
> ...


straight shoots of california bay [if you can find them] make great shafts.
willow and alder make mediocre shafts, but there's no reason not to use them if they are what's handy. they like to grow in riparian environments, which makes for plenty crowded, shaded trees/shrubs with suitable straight lengths of gentle taper.

for nocks and point slots i also have had great results sawing with stone. flakes of grainy basalt or granite are particularly nice because the stone is both hard and abrasive. you can even make fine notches along the flake's edge to create teeth

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## Rick

Very nice, MOF. Those are beautiful and practical works of art!!

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## preachtheWORD

After the new baby and pushing to graduate on time, I am starting to get back into knapping again.  Here is some of my more recent work.

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The point in the center is from a small piece of red and black obsidian.  It's beautiful stuff, but delicate.  This one took some "blood sacrifice."  A cut or puncture from obsidian bleeds like nothing else.
The other two points are from a material of which I do not know the name.  Below the points is a chunk of the material.  The "mother stone" was a big, irregular blob from which I spalled pieces.  Somebody brought it to my Dad from somewhere.  Wish I knew what it is.  This much I can tell you - In the words of my Dad, it was "harder than Satan's bunions."


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The two obsidian pieces were from narrow shards.  The light makes them look lopsided, but they are actually fairly symmetrical.  The piece on the left was from another very hard nameless stone.  It was full of little crystaline inclusions that kept me from getting a good flake.  The little "ear" chipped off on the left side and instead of working the whole piece down to make it match again I just left it.  Makes it look more "original."


I have probably made about 50 points now, and I have given them all away except about 10.  When I talk to people about the Lord I often give them an arrowhead.  I have made a lot of friends this way, an usually get another chance to talk to them.

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## Rick

You are very talented. You should be very proud of those. Nice job!!

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## crashdive123

Great looking work.

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## preachtheWORD

I would love to see more pieces produced by other members.  I would especially like to see points that you have set into shafts, with a tutorial if possible.

Everybody get out there and *GET KNAPPING!*  :Sleeping:  :whip:

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## your_comforting_company

I'll do my best to get out there soon and set a few points into removable tips. I've not tried any fletching yet, but I can certainly show how to haft one.
Nice work PTW!

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## Erratus Animus

PTW and anyone else do you have any tips for working with glass? I dont have any local stone that i am aware up as I live around woods and swamp, but there are plenty of drunks and wineo's that see fit to throw their bottles out on the side of the road. I have a good supply of thick bottle bottoms to work from but as mention earlier in another post it just seems so overwhelming.

I understand the book knowledge of when and how but have not put it into application yet. I will be doing percussion with a Home-made Ishi stick, got to build that tomorrow as well :Smile: 

Any advice would be welcomed.

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## your_comforting_company

tips for glass:
wear safety glasses!!!
Wear pants that cover the tops of your shoes so glass doesn't fall in there.
Use something on the ground or floor to catch the shards. They are extremely sharp!
Do a really good clean-up job when you are done. 
other than that, make sure you support the piece well. glass can break unpredictably when unsupported.
Wear a glove on your flaking hand too.. it will cut your hand open if you slip.
I took out some 1/4" thick plate glass windows and I've been toying with the glass a little lately. I can take some pictures of bloody hands and feet if you need positive reinforcement, lol.

I think you'll find glass super easy to work points with. The consistency and lack of impurities make it so easy it's like cheating. I'd recommend finding some kind of knappable stone, even if it's coarse and ugly, because rocks and glass do not flake the same way. Glass may be plentiful, but it's not natural and doesn't behave as such, though the same principles apply.

biggest suggestion here is BE CAREFUL! glass is dangerous stuff to work with. between bleeding hands, legs, and feet, and the chance of putting an eye out, you really need to mind your p's and q's.

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## crashdive123

> PTW and anyone else do you have any tips for working with glass? I dont have any local stone that i am aware up as I live around woods and swamp, but there are plenty of drunks and wineo's that see fit to throw their bottles out on the side of the road. I have a good supply of thick bottle bottoms to work from but as mention earlier in another post it just seems so overwhelming.
> 
> I understand the book knowledge of when and how but have not put it into application yet. I will be doing percussion with a Home-made Ishi stick, got to build that tomorrow as well
> 
> Any advice would be welcomed.


Canid has also done quite a bit of work with knapping glass.  He may be able to give you some pointers (pun intended).

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## Erratus Animus

> Glass may be plentiful, but it's not natural and doesn't behave as such, though the same principles apply.



Unfortunately glass seems to be natural where I am. ppl throw so much of it in the river and bayou's that its not hard to find walking beside a water way. Seasonal flooding also bring a good bit of it into the woods as well.

I will break down and purchase some soon I suppose but I hate to do that knowing I will be breaking stuff. I guess that is the price of tuition. 

Any Knappers in North Louisiana on the forums? Maybe East Texas Or Mississippi? I am about 3 hrs to either state.

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## canid

well, you won't [shouldn't] be doing percussion with an ishi stick, as that is a pressure flaking device.

for percussion implements copper and antler are both great for use on glass and obsidian. incidentally, i find both of those materials to work quite similarly, when compared to cryptocilicates like flint, etc.

hopefully, this advice will help more than it confuses. the important concepts; the ones which will best increase your success are very simple, and very hard for me to explain simply. it is far easier to pick up by watching than by reading.

all flaking should be done along areas of extra mass. fractures, like most things, travel along the path of least resistance, and become far more controllable when you have a continuous 'ridge' of extra mass to direct the force under. if you where to try to drive that same force along a plane, it would have no reason not to dip into the mass, and just break your piece in half.

such ridges can be seen illustrated in these pictures which i shamelessly ripped off from online:
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the great thing is that as you remove a flake, one or two such ridges are left behind on the side[s] of the flake scar. as you work along a biface edge, just sort of leap-frog them.

glass and obsidian, being especially brittle, need good preparation, or the edge you are trying to drive flakes from will just crumble. this is done by abrasion [as by rubbing with a piece of coarse stone], and by 'setup-flakes', which are small flakes created to move the edge downward [creating a lower platform] or to isolate a ridge [by removing mass along either side of it].

if you look up some of the great knapping videos on youtube you will see many knappers taking care to point out what they mean when they say platform. the important points for them are:
1. that there is a ridge mass along the area you are trying to flake off. this means that when you are trying to decide where to remove a flake, the bottom surface you are trying to drive from is thicker, and protrudes down further. this allows the force creating the fracture to travel along it, and break along that extra mass, making the fracture predictable.

2. platform preperation. you will want to abrade the sharp edge as you are working. when you do, you will see the jagged patters of the edge look a little blunter and more gradually wavy. the trick is to manipulate this edge so that as you look at it edge-on, the low spots  [where the wavy line of the edge dips down; what is called 'below centerline'] are above the ridge you want to drive a flake along, so you can round it off by abrasion [making it stronger] and then strike there, driving the force under that ridge and breaking it off as a flake.

a good demonstration of both of these principles can be seen in this thread, by Jim Winn, who is quite skillfull.

here on the boards, FVR, and several others are quite skilled knappers as well.

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## Erratus Animus

I was sitting here drinking coffe when I saw that had said percussion but ment flaking. The mind says one thing and the fingers type another. 

Good bad or ugly I will post my results today working on the bottle bottoms. Thanks for all the advice thus far.

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## Erratus Animus

Here is a video that goes along with the link Canid posted. It is by Jim as well.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Yl1_JRCh0

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yG-D...eature=channel

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrcdy...eature=channel

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## Erratus Animus

Sweet !!! I found the video that explains it all and answers all the question I had about knapping a bottle bottom !! check it out ans see what you think.

bottle bottom knapping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh7pc2Q6XFI

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## Erratus Animus

Well this is what I started with and here is where I am at now. Need to make an ishi stick tomorrow to finish. My first one ever !!

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## crashdive123

Turned out pretty good.  Looks very functional.

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## canid

you got it down better than i did when i started knapping bottles.

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## your_comforting_company

Good job on your first point. None of my first ones looked that good lol.
The more you do, the more sense it will all make. Keep us posted on your progress!

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## Erratus Animus

That was just the percussion part but it still needs the flaking. I am building a fiber glass longbow today so I will find time somewhere to ge the ishi stick made.

I percussed a few more last night as well since it was so fast to do.

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## Erratus Animus

Here is my modern ishi stick. t6061 hardened aluminum shaft with 1/4 " brass insert and 3 pieces of glass that I bopped and now needs pressure flaking. Was very easy to make. Now how do you crank this thing?

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## Erratus Animus

bopping was easy pressure flaking not so much. got to get more glass now :Frown:

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## crashdive123

I made an ishi stick, and have not practiced enough with it to be comfortable.  I'm still using my small, homemade pressure flaker.  It's just a piece of dowel, with a hole drilled in the end and a piece of sharpened ground wire.

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## Erratus Animus

Kool !! I like it crash

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## your_comforting_company

Positive reinforcement for being safe!!

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the piece that cut me...
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It left a blood trail...
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Keep safety in mind when knapping.. empty your debris from the pad after every flake! Safety glasses are a MUST HAVE when using percussion... that stuff flies everywhere.

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## Erratus Animus

Ouch and good point to remember too.

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## crashdive123

Ouch!  Are you going to be able to save the finger nail?  (or is the cut below the fingernail?)

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## your_comforting_company

it was a teeny nick, just below the nail. Bled like a stuck hog though. No damage done, just a little battle scar lol.

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## ibosserman

i just got inspired again to make some too. great job guys all of the pieces look amazing.

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## hunter63

Ouch!
You guys do some nice work, I'll just watch and learn, I think, I'm not sure I have enough blood to survive making a point.

Thats why I went in to service work instead of being a sheet metal guy, all the good sheet matel guy are big, it seems........more blood, I would bleed to death by noon.

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## your_comforting_company

If you pay attention and mind the safety rules, you can avoid the blood loss.. Don't be a dummy like me!
Lucky for you, there is no fire required to make points  :Wink:

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## Erratus Animus

I vote for another thread as this one is getting pretty long. Might be a good idea to condense it all into a sticky if mods have the time. just my .02$

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## your_comforting_company

This piece is purely for decoration. It was so wide and only 1/4" thick, I didn't even try to push flakes all the way across. A little background story on this one: I know a carpenter who hires me to do all his roofing work. I was slack on work and he was slack on help, so he asked me to help him with some windows he was changing out in an old house. There were 3 HUGE picture windows on the front of the house, 8 feet tall and 7 feet wide. Big, heavy, and dangerously sharp. One window was cracked, and they were inefficient (not insulating) so the owner wanted new gas-filled ones. I got to keep all the glass. I told him (the carpenter) I'd make him a point from the glass. 
The only place I really thinned it was at the tip, for the nice "tapered" point.
Keep in mind, I had no intention of it being functional. purely something for him to put on his wall next to his trophy bucks and bass.
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Glass really needs good support when pressure flaking. I've tried a couple other shards and I keep breaking them into smaller shards haha. As I mentioned before, glass is brittle and doesn't behave the way rocks do, so It's gonna take me some getting used to. It's not very tolerant of mis-strikes when percussing either.

I have a lot of this glass. we cut each window into quarters, so now I have 12 pieces about 3' x '3. If anyone would like to try some, I'm happy to share! I can cut them with a modern glass-cutter into blanks, and send a few. If you'd like to make a donation to the DOC in exchange for some glass that would be great!

after working more with glass, I'm learning a few things about finesse. Make sure you set up your platforms properly, make sure you support the piece well, and for your own sake, wear shoes and safety glasses!

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## preachtheWORD

> Positive reinforcement for being safe!!


Every good point requires a little "blood sacrifice"!  

Seriously, though, even the tiniest puncture or cut from the tiniest splinter of glass, obsidian, or similar material will produce a ridiculous amount of blood.  I'm not sure why that is - maybe it cuts so cleanly the blood can't clot fast enough to get the bleeding stopped before it gushes.  Hmmm ...

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## Erratus Animus

I believe I have the issues of my poor pressure flaking figured out. I believe I was supporting the piece too much and the back face was resting against the pad so that the flake could not travel. 

Going to build some pads and see it that helps.

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## crashdive123

> I believe I have the issues of my poor pressure flaking figured out. I believe I was supporting the piece too much and the back face was resting against the pad so that the flake could not travel. 
> 
> Going to build some pads and see it that helps.


In that picture I posted of my tools, a few posts back, there is a small black rectangle.  It is a piece of thick rubber (a piece of tire would work) with a deep groove cut into it.  For smaller pieces, you can rest the entire piece on the pad and pressure flake above the groove (gives the flakes a place to go).  Pretty simple to make, and goodness knows there are enough tires discarded to cut a small scrap.

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## Erratus Animus

Here is a shard of glass I Knapped after learning a few pointers. I am plzed to start grasping what to do but I need to make a new pad like crash suggested to aid in thinning small heads.

The point is 1 1/4 wide @ the base - 2" long total - It is elliptical on all edges but the mid-line is thick as I was unable to thin it properly.

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## crashdive123

Looking good.

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## your_comforting_company

remember to push toward the center of the stone to remove flakes inward for thinning. Great for a first try. Looks functional to me and that's what really counts. An arrowhead need not be a work of art to obtain a meal... only sharp and balanced enough to fly straight!
Great job!

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## Erratus Animus

it is the size of a pencil in the middle but elliptical. I am not too plz lol I never am plz with my work is why I continue to try harder lol. 

I did not set out to make a head I set out to just pratice stiching and unzipping and the head kinda formed from there. I learned a bit while making it , but i had to get some knives Heat treated so I will do more knapping later. 

I contacted the other guy,the one at the college, he said that on heads that are small such as this one I needed to make a pad with a recess in it since I would be unable to get it up off the pad like it needed. Thats the next thing is make another pad. Good thing all this stuff is just lying around  :Smile: 

Good tip on pushing in too YCC!

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## Rick

Knapping, woodworking, pottery, doesn't matter. Whatever is inside will show itself as you work. It is what it was meant to be.

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## Batch

Looks to me like it wanted to be a Jim Beam bottle. But, some one caught it while he was knapping.  :Innocent: 

Much better work than anything I have been able to make BTW!

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## Erratus Animus

> Looks to me like it wanted to be a Jim Beam bottle. But, some one caught it while he was knapping. 
> 
> Much better work than anything I have been able to make BTW!


I recycled a 40 gal leaking fish tank into a pile of silica slivers and one point. lol But i did recycle- Eat that Al Gore LMAO

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## crashdive123

> I recycled a 40 gal leaking fish tank into a pile of silica slivers and one point. lol But i did recycle- Eat that Al Gore LMAO


Why not?  Looks like he's eaten just about everything else lately. :Innocent:

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## Erratus Animus

I knapped another one out tonight and was able to thin it across the width of the point. I did notice that where ever the glass touched the rubber it stopped. I got to make that recessed pad :Smash: 

Not as flat as I would like and only 2 inches long but much thinner. 1/4" thick and tapers to the noes into nothing.

I will post some pics in a few days when I have a bunch made..... never mind here is the pic  :Smile: 
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## your_comforting_company

amazing! Great job EA!
are you going to add hafting notches to it? Would love to see that one on a stick!

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## Erratus Animus

that was my second point after learning to flake and my youngest asked to keep them in her display cabinet showing the progession of my skill. I was pleased with it and learned more as working it. It's cool to problem solve the piece as you go. Every piece a new puzzle. I will do another one today and will do a simple hafting tounge,but first I need to make the recessed pad. I will play with notching later in the week.

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## solutrean74

hello everyone I am Solutrean74 I live in Utah AND I am a professional flintknapper that is what I do for a living and I love it I have been looking for a place to talk about knapping hopefully I found it. Anybody out there chip using clovis or solutrean technology or over shot flaking techniques if so great or just gen info I hope to make lots of acquittances

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## crashdive123

> hello everyone I am Solutrean74 I live in Utah AND I am a professional flintknapper that is what I do for a living and I love it I have been looking for a place to talk about knapping hopefully I found it. Anybody out there chip using clovis or solutrean technology or over shot flaking techniques if so great or just gen info I hope to make lots of acquittances


Hi and welcome to the forum.  I had to look up soutrean technique, as I had not heard of that before.  When I did, it appeared to be the same thing as pressure flaking - is that correct?

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## Erratus Animus

Did you mean SOOOOOOOOOLu-Treannnnnnnn! I just thought it was a 70-80's dance craze :Punk: 

Welcome aboard! I look forward to seeing your work and I am certain we will learn something too.

I have not had much time for knapping in both tenses of the word as of late and need to try to make some time. 

Plz talk away!

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## your_comforting_company

Welcome, I also welcome the conversation. I have a lot to learn.

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## shooter_250

Hay folks...been reading again and ran across this...

http://nehawkaprimitiveskills.blogspot.com/

might be interesting to some of you...i use lots of arrowheads making my own arrows as well as using them for closures on leather pouches i make,,,,but i cheat...i buy them..arther won't let me knap...

hope this helps someone...if it has been posted before...i apologize...

God Bless

Lee

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## your_comforting_company

Pretty interesting. thanks for sharing that!

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## Brazito

Any recommendations on how-to books and/or videos on knapping? I want to make my own obsidian knife blade.

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## your_comforting_company

Most of the stuff I have is just basic "how to" and doesn't really get into knife-making as that takes a little more practice than just basic flaking. Not sure how to attach a PDF to the forums either.. gotta figure that out.
Honestly, the best way, is to be shown by someone who already knows, even if it's just a few minutes. Do you understand the basics of knapping (spalling, percussion, and flaking)?

I got a free PDF from here : http://www.arrowhead-maker.com/
that really only covers basic stuff.. Not sure quite how advanced you are AS, but I get the impression you are above the level of this article.

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## Brazito

> Most of the stuff I have is just basic "how to" and doesn't really get into knife-making as that takes a little more practice than just basic flaking. Not sure how to attach a PDF to the forums either.. gotta figure that out.
> Honestly, the best way, is to be shown by someone who already knows, even if it's just a few minutes. Do you understand the basics of knapping (spalling, percussion, and flaking)?
> 
> I got a free PDF from here : http://www.arrowhead-maker.com/
> that really only covers basic stuff.. Not sure quite how advanced you are AS, but I get the impression you are above the level of this article.


Thanks for the link, that's a good start for me.

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## y2k

How about a report on what size target you can consistently hit with such arrows, along with a measurement of the distance to said target? That would be good to know.

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## biddysere

Looks like Coastal Plains Chert. Works better heat treated. All up and down the river there (Columbus?)

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## canid

assuming proper matching of spine weight, shaft mass, point mass and symmetry, exactly the same as with a modern arrow. it's up to the shooter, not the arrow.

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## charibelle18

> ycc - 
> Do you suppose that a stone axehead could be hafted by scraping down a long green stick in the middle, heating and bending it until you have basically folded it in half, putting the head in and lashing it down?  Sounds like it would work to me.  The green wood should shrink up and tighten down on the head.  Just a thought.


This is the method I learned from my dad when I was younger.  He also recommended soaking it in water for a while before folding it & lashing it together.  For lashing he used leather strips, so that it tightened as it dried.

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## your_comforting_company

Since the new horns arrived I haven't had a lot of time to try them, so I had a few minutes to try them the other night on some new rocks from the Flint River.
And of course, what's the first thing I do with 'em?

No idea what any of these rocks are, but they have some really pretty colors!
Just a peek at me doing some spalling.

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Use _something_ in your hand when you are spalling... Those rocks are sharp!

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## crashdive123

Knap the rock, not your hand.  Do we have to tell you everything?

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## your_comforting_company

My oldest boy says I'm "emo" whatever that means...

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## JPGreco

It means you like to wear makeup, dark clothes, and cut yourself.  High five your kid for me cause that was funny (with the non cut hand)

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## your_comforting_company

ok.. not so much on the makeup..

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## Nutman

Here are some obsidian knives i made
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## your_comforting_company

That's some fine work!
I probably would have broken the bottom one there. Can't wait to see more!

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## crashdive123

Great work Nutman.

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## Nutman

Here are a few more made from Glass
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## crashdive123

More fine work.

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## your_comforting_company

didn't take any pictures because I didn't actually make a viable head out of any of the flakes, but I got the chance a few evenings ago to brush up on knapping and I used those red-roebuck tines to do a little fine work of flaking. Those tines are good and strong, and very pointed. The billet is sturdy and peels off flakes like a dream. Made several single-strike possible blades, worked them over until I whittled them into almost nothing, tossed in the hole in the driveway and grabbed another.
Lots of fun and a good reminder just how difficult it can be to make a good point with natural tools. I wasn't actually trying to make a viable point, just brush up on the conical fracture and strike angles, and pressure flaking along the subsequent ridges methodically working towards a shape.

Made quite a bit of driveway filler haha. Fun stuff tho! Anyone else been toying with knapping lately?

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## Rick

One day soon at the tire store......

"Why did my tire go flat?"

"You ain't gonna believe this but you had about 30 tiny arrowheads in your tire. Do you have a tribe of midget indians livin' around you?"

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## crashdive123

I do quite a bit of napping, but it had been quite a while since I had done any knapping.  I did some the other day (napping and knapping).  As the weather turns cooler I plan on doing a bit more.  Here's the spear head I made the other day.

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## Willie

Pretty cool stuff! Never picked on it myself,maybe one day!

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## your_comforting_company

Nice work crash! looks like you struck it out pretty quick with good direction. It's usable like it is, but you could give that a really nice shape! I bet it's good and sharp on the edges too. If it wasn't so late I'd go bang on another rock tonight myself!

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## woodsman86

Wow, nice work everyone!

 Nutman-those are some really nice pieces. How long does it take you to complete a standard flint knife like those?

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## Wise Old Owl

> My oldest boy says I'm "emo" whatever that means...


Modern version of Renaissance Man! 

1. 	Emo 	62462 up, 18730 down

Genre of softcore punk music that integrates unenthusiastic melodramatic 17 year olds who dont smile, high pitched overwrought lyrics and inaudible guitar rifts with tight wool sweaters, tighter jeans, itchy scarfs (even in the summer), ripped chucks with favorite bands signature, black square rimmed glasses, and ebony greasy unwashed hair that is required to cover at least 3/5 ths of the face at an angle.
::sniff sniff:: "The Demise of the Siberian Traintracks of Our Rusty Forgotten Unblemished Love" sounds like it would make a great emo band name. ::cry:: 

Tis a man thing,,,,,

Separate post - recently I went to a huge tourist thing... and folks the gal at the Indian museum told me it was obsidian, when clearly it was Chinese beer bottles!

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## Wolfman

Some great examples on this tread, well done peeps!

Wolf

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## RickG

You're dad's obsidian turtle looks likes the first point I tried to make.

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## 1stimestar

251687_10150638403545697_656605696_18671698_3132200_n.jpg

This is a knap I created.  I think I did a pretty good job.

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## RandyRhoads

Can someone please give me a few pointers. I'm using glass bottle bottoms. Every time I get it somewhat reduced and shaped into a triangle it snaps in half. I've been able to salvage 2 broken halves and keep trying. The last pic is the first one I completed. The others are the one i'm working on now. I have it somewhat reduced and shaped, but the edges are square. I'm not sure where to drive off flakes from here to flatten the edge. Both are complete trash, I can't get the convex bottom bottle flat. arrow.jpgarrow (2).jpgarrow (3).jpgarrow (4).jpgDSCN0260.jpg

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## crashdive123

It may be that you are not properly supporting the piece when you are pressure flaking.

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## your_comforting_company

And imagine a flat plane running through the middle of the flake. You have to always move your edge toward the "centerline". I find that most times when I snap one, I did not have A) the platform on the correct side of the centerline, or B) the piece properly supported in my hand.
Convex bottle bottoms are tricky to get back in line. It's good practice but don't get your hopes too high, because both edges will ALWAYS be below the centerline. Try to find thicker, older bottles that weren't so concave/convex. Whether you actually make an arrowhead out of it or not is a negligible notion. The main idea is to get a good hold on the concepts that make knapping work.... I'm always filling up holes in the driveway with failed attempts at an arrowhead.
Keep at it!!

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## RandyRhoads

Thanks I finally got it down to make them symmetrical and pointed without breaking but they're always still concave. Time to move on to obsidian.

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## Rustic_Elements

I have some small pieces of obsidian that i found and i wanted to try my hand at knapping the largest pieces is 6 inches long but only about a quater inch thick is it possible to do anything with this piece?

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## crashdive123

Yes, but got a picture?

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## Rustic_Elements

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the one on the right is the obsidian and the one on the left is jasper.

they are both around a quater inch thick

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## your_comforting_company

a quarter inch is good, if you can work it without snapping it in half.
patience, and practice. attention to your strikes. 

I would most likely make driveway filler out of it..

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## Rustic_Elements

ugg... lol thats what i was afraid of... i know they are thin enough to work with a dremel under water to make pendants out of but not 100 percent sure on how to polish it up afterwards... can you use traditional tools on it or do you have to use small scaled tools since its much smaller that usual subjects

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## crashdive123

Most pieces that I do are relatively small.  My pressure flaker is a piece of copper ground wire stuck in a wooden dowel.

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## Rustic_Elements

So what your saying is if I use the pressure flaker I can do it but it'll take awhile... I'm pretty pacient so I don't mind waiting for perfection.. ill try it out and see how it goes. Wouldn't the copper ground be to soft? It seem like it would bend.

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## crashdive123

Depending on what you want it to be - you are going to have to do some striking to get it to the size and basic shape you want and then pressure flake.  My previous response was intended to answer your question regarding tool size.

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## your_comforting_company

The copper ground wire won't bend. Too hard of a metal will fracture the pieces.. it needs a little "give" to it. Not sure about the physics behind it, but copper works better, and it only takes a short piece sticking out, maybe, half an inch exposed. Antlers work well because they are softish..

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## Rustic_Elements

well i have antler and im sure if i stripped some wire i would find some copper but antler is right on hand lol. ill try it out and see what happens hopefully it doesnt turn into driveway filler

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## A Curious Scout

I just started my first ever knapping project today. I'm trying to make an arrowhead from the bottom of a Jarritos bottle I got today at the jambaree. Most I've learned about knapping I learned from this thread though, so I'll be happy to give what input I can once I'm done! Just a couple questions, though: What is pressure flaking? And what is percussion flaking?

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## crashdive123

Percussion flaking is when you strike the piece to remove material.  I use a piece of elk antler (bottom of picture) or "copper bopper" (piece of wood with weighted copper end) or a rock.  Pressure flaking is when you use a tool (antler tine, ishi stick, nail) to push of the material.  I use a dowel with a piece of copper wire (toward the right of picture)

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## A Curious Scout

Another question, how do I make a piece thinner?

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## A Curious Scout

> Percussion flaking is when you strike the piece to remove material.  I use a piece of elk antler (bottom of picture) or "copper bopper" (piece of wood with weighted copper end) or a rock.  Pressure flaking is when you use a tool (antler tine, ishi stick, nail) to push of the material.  I use a dowel with a piece of copper wire (toward the right of picture)
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Thanks alot! This really helps.

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## A Curious Scout

Snapshot_20120429.JPG
And then...Snapshot_20120429_1.JPG

I'm gonna see if I can salvage a piece to make a point. A bit of advice, though: go easy when percussion flaking!

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## crashdive123

Keep in mind - when you strike your material, the goal is not to just break it, but rather peel pieces off (called spalls).  When pressure flaking you are pushing material off, not chipping away.

Go from this...

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To this...

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To this...(these are not my work, but rather that of a local knapper)

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## Sparky93

Here is a video Dave C did on knapping a glass bottle, I learn better by watching so thought this might help. He did another video on knapping where he shows what he is doing better, he had the camera setup at a bad angle to see what was going on...

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## A Curious Scout

Snapshot_20120501_1.JPG
My next attempt: a bottle bottom. I watched a couple videos on this. I've been using a flathead screwdriver as a pressure flaker, but what ever I use, I can't get any flakes. Any advice?

P.S. Thank you Sparky and crash for the help! It really....helps!

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## crashdive123

The piece in your picture isn't to the stage yet where you would pressure flake.

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## A Curious Scout

> The piece in your picture isn't to the stage yet where you would pressure flake.


How should I start? Should I abrade, or just bop the side off with a rock?

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## crashdive123

The way I started was on my fingers.  You just barely want to touch the tips....if it hurts, you are not striking close enough to the edge.  Depending on you pain threshold, you pick it up fairly quick.

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## your_comforting_company

Hard metal, like that in a screwdriver, doesn't have enough "give" for pressure flaking. Try a softer metal like bronze or copper.

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## A Curious Scout

I've changed to a copper nail for pressure flaking, and have been using percussion flaking to remove the sides of the bottle. I got most of the sides off, next I'll need to abrade to prepare for pressure flaking (I think).

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## your_comforting_company

Sounds right to me. Abrading will keep those crumbly edges off so you have a good platform for flakes.

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## A Curious Scout

Okay, today is the first day I actually worked hard on this. Here are my tools (allen wrench for percussion, finishing nail for pressure, and nail for getting out bottle bottomsSnapshot_20120518_3.JPGSnapshot_20120518_4.JPGSnapshot_20120518_5.JPG

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## Rick

Actually, Scout. That's a wood screw.

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## crashdive123

So, how did it work?

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## A Curious Scout

> So, how did it work?


Snapshot_20120518_6.JPGSnapshot_20120518_8.JPG

Need I say more?

I can't get pressure flaking down. I've gotten pretty good a percussion flaking, though. The only advice I can give is to not knap where people walk, to wear eye protection and to draw a triangle on the glass when knapping an arrowhead.

However, I was able to salvage the piece into something:
Snapshot_20120518_9.JPG

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## A Curious Scout

> Actually, Scout. That's a wood screw.


I beg your pardon, Rick. Please excuse my inability to see that a screw is not a screw  :Smile:

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## A Curious Scout

These are some rocks I found yesterday. I'm gonna see if I can't make a couple points out of them.
Snapshot_20120522.JPGSnapshot_20120522_1.JPG
Actually, I cahnged my mind: I'm gonna leave them in a bucket of water for a few days and see what happens to their composition.

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## wtrfwlr

I hope its cool with you guys if I bump up this thread and join in here. I just found this thread last night and read through it and thought I would share too.
I'm also brand spanking new to knapping. It has been one of those things that I have wanted to try and do since I was a kid and was just never around anyone who did that sort of thing. Well the other day I watched that video that was posted in an earlier post about beer bottle bottoms and decided to give it a go. I made up a couple of tools that I thought looked sorta like what they were using and got and old beer bottle and made something that sort of looks like an arrowhead. 
It is pretty dang fun I must admit and frustrating at times too but I'm learning as I go. I have to say also that I have about as much fun making the tools as I do crackin glass! Here is a photo of my first ever attempt and the tools I made.
Thanks Bj. wtrfwlr
*** Heck, I forgot to size the pix to fit! I hope I can go do that and then attach them to this??? If not I'll post them in the next one, sorry.

100_8680.jpg

100_8682.jpg

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## crashdive123

Wtrfwlr - the picture size is fine - just click on them to enlarge.  Your first attempt a knapping is a heck of a lot better than my first..............10.

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## Rick

Sort of looks like an arrowhead? It looks pretty danged good to me. Very nice job on the tools and the finished product.

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## Ted

> I hope its cool with you guys if I bump up this thread and join in here. I just found this thread last night and read through it and thought I would share too.
> I'm also brand spanking new to knapping. It has been one of those things that I have wanted to try and do since I was a kid and was just never around anyone who did that sort of thing. Well the other day I watched that video that was posted in an earlier post about beer bottle bottoms and decided to give it a go. I made up a couple of tools that I thought looked sorta like what they were using and got and old beer bottle and made something that sort of looks like an arrowhead. 
> It is pretty dang fun I must admit and frustrating at times too but I'm learning as I go. I have to say also that I have about as much fun making the tools as I do crackin glass! Here is a photo of my first ever attempt and the tools I made.
> Thanks Bj. wtrfwlr
> *** Heck, I forgot to size the pix to fit! I hope I can go do that and then attach them to this??? If not I'll post them in the next one, sorry.
> 
> Attachment 8167
> 
> Attachment 8168




 :clap:  :clap:  :clap:    You certainly weren't nappin' when you made any of that! Great job!

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## wtrfwlr

Thank you Kind Sir. I'll keep fooling with it. I would prefer to have them appear full size if I can. 

Thanks for the nod. I must admit I was kinda proud of it myself. Of course, like everyone I wanted it to be better but I'm sure the ones that follow will be.
I now have some TV glass to play with and some Johnstone too but I'm not liking it all that much yet, it's sorta crappy!  I'm trying to get my glass down before I move on to rock.
Bj. wtrfwlr

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## wtrfwlr

> Sort of looks like an arrowhead? It looks pretty danged good to me. Very nice job on the tools and the finished product.


Thanks so much Rick, the tools are pretty fun to make and then see them work and work well is just cool. I had always read about Indians made stone points using an antler and it made absolutely no sense to me until I grabbed an antler and started beatin on a beer bottle with! I just looked and thought, "I'll be dipped, it works???"

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## wtrfwlr

> You certainly weren't nappin' when you made any of that! Great job!


Thanks for the applause Ted. If you had been here to see me you would have been rolling on ground in laughter crying out "Do it again, cut yourself and cuss again! That's funny!"

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## crashdive123

> and some Johnstone too but I'm not liking it all that much yet, it's sorta crappy!  
> Bj. wtrfwlr


Hehehehehehehe.

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## Rick

Ooooh. I get it. I do. I get it.

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## wtrfwlr

Just another stinkin pun, not to worry.

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## hunter63

Pssst, Hey guys, I got a tip about this church, see, the whole thing in made of flint, looks like some good stuff too......

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## wtrfwlr

> Pssst, Hey guys, I got a tip about this church, see, the whole thing in made of flint, looks like some good stuff too......


If you'll give me the address I'll head right on over there.

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## hunter63

Just come down the page a bit:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...Norfolk-Thread!

Actually there will be a knapper at the Rondy this week end, in town here.

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## wtrfwlr

Yeah Hunter I saw it this AM I was just jazzin you bout the address.
Cool about having a knapper over there. I wish we had more Rondy stuff around here. We have 1 in Oct. It's lots of fun to go to.

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## archeonut

beautifull work people! you are awesome!

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## your_comforting_company

One of my latest Nice and thin.
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## MrFixIt

That looks really nice YCC!
Always wanted to try my hand at knapping, but never have gotten around to it...

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## your_comforting_company

Thanks! It takes a few specialized tools (just the right size and shape horn, a rough rock) but it's a lot of fun. If you break one, you just throw it down and start another. This must've been the fifth one I tried that day, haha!

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## your_comforting_company

I asked my mentor how he got to be so good at knapping. I expected him to say "practice", but he said


"You gotta fluff the pillow just right"

He's a joker  :Wink:

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## Sgt. Duece

Man there is some skill here.

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## Enigma

This is the last one I did, about 5 days ago.

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## hunter63

> This is the last one I did, about 5 days ago.
> 
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Very nice.......Thanks for posting.

Excuse a real dumb question....Is that a, ....or do you have example of original aboriginal stone work?

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## Enigma

That's a popular style that sells well, due to "Game of Thrones." I think people like dagger blades. The timber is a rainforest tree root, exposed from hundreds of years of flooding, then marked by a twisting vine over many years, which eventually rotted away, but left a black spiral all the way down and around the handle.

Below are some of the Aboriginal repro's I do. Knives such as these were collected circa 1900AD in the Tennant Creek area. I have used Mookaite, the originals had a different stone, but I can't tell just by looking at the museum images.
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I use genuine Xanthorea based resin for these.

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## Enigma

Here's one I did for a mate a while back. It was a large Keokuk flake from bopping, so I didn't have to do much, except shape it with pressure flaking.

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## hayshaker

nice work i,m glad we have another knapper to the forum.
i too make knives like that. also use animal jaws for handles.
i have some mookite but it is cut into knife blanks.
i use many types of stone,agite,jasper,novaculite,keokuk,all types obsidian,kay creek,goldstone
and so on. see some of mine in making stuff section.

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## Enigma

Thanks Haymaker. I'll check out your stuff.
I really like Madagascan Green Chalcedony as a material. The colour and opaquness is very pretty. 

Mookaite is really interesting, it depends on shades of colour to how it behaves. Pure yellow is 'flaky' the purples and deep burgandys are good and predictable, the white is very fragile, the olives are gorgeous but rare and the light pink is even ,more brittle than all the variants put together.

I had to break up 72kg's of cores to see how each colour variant behaved. :-)

I also like Indian Bloodstone and Indian Red Jasper.
I've used Obsidian (black, Mahogany, Smokey,) Dacite, Keokuk, English Flint, Texas Flint, Goldstone, Mookaite Jasper (a Radiolarite), Madagascan Chalcedony, Bloodstone, Indian Red Jasper, Quartz, Basalt, Belmont Chert, Mudstone, Gympyite, TV glass

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## Enigma

Sorry mate, I called you haymaker!! Re: your private message, here's some stuff I have done.

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Original "Hoko" knife. Hoko was the name of the village, wiped out by a mud slide 2700 years ago.

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My 'Hoko' reproduction.

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Mookaite Spalls
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Cohikia points, white Mookaite, and rare salmon pink Mookaite.
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Cream Mookaite, and goat shin bone handle.

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Dacite blade and some nice, but very hard Mulga wood, for the handle.

This is a Mookaite skinner with a chital deer stag antler handle. I kept the chalk exterior deposits, on one side of the blade, as it goes well with the ivory colour of the handle, and also accentuates the shape of the blade. I like this one.

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## hayshaker

wow you really do nice work and that pile of mookite spalls i,m jelous there beautiful

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## MrFixIt

I posted this in the "Making Stuff" section, but will post here as well.
This is a photo of some of hayshaker's worked he asked me to share with everyone.

Hayshaker's primitive knives..jpg

Looks good Mikey!

ETA: Those pieces you presented are simply stunning Enigma.

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## Enigma

Thanks mate, and nice work yourself Hayshaker, it's great fun getting creative with everything nature provides. I like working with bone, timber and stone. This is a bone harpoon point I made from 3 separate pieces, all held together by the sinew cordage. The more force put on the cordage, by the prey, the tighter the whole thing gets. Thanks MrFixIt

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Another bone spearfishing point
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here's a nice Lilac and white Mookaite blade with a piece of that same root from the Rain Forest, as another knife I posted earlier. The black twist go's all the way around in a spiral.
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some older stuff I've done
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L to R, Indian Green Jasper 'Bloodstone', Madagascan Green Chalcedony, Australian Green Gympyite
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This is a nice piece of Green Chalcedony, I had to work hard on one side to thin it, but it came good in the end. 
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here's a nice photo of some more broadheads. Lit from morning light in the Blue Mountains.

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1st Row
Mookaite (Aus), Mookaite, Colha Flint (Belize), Mahogany Obsidian (USA),

2nd row, 
Green Chalcedony (Madagscar), Mookaite, Red Jasper (India), Mookaite

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## hunter63

> Thanks mate, and nice work yourself Hayshaker, it's great fun getting creative with everything nature provides. I like working with bone, timber and stone. This is a bone harpoon point I made from 3 separate pieces, all held together by the sinew cordage. The more force put on the cordage, by the prey, the tighter the whole thing gets. Thanks MrFixIt


Outstanding work.....Thanks for posting.

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## hayshaker

my gosh you got some beautiful stone to work with.
do you have a professional photographer do your photos? wow
that last point is pretty.

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## Enigma

Thanks Guys, it's nice to have fellow enthusiasts admire ones work. Makes it all worth while. :-)

I do my own photo's hayshaker, I'm a pro and have my own post production studio, I also do our survival companies videos. But haven't done any in about 6 months, been way too busy. I'm halfway through a desert course promo in Western Australia, now THAT was a bloody awesome trip, 9 days hundreds of kilometres from the nearest town, and in an aboriginal area, exploring initiation caves, womens rocks, quartz and greenstone fields, finding debitage from knapped cores, an ochre grinding stone (for painting oneself during corroboree's) salt lakes, basalt mountains, water seeps and springs (lifeblood of the desert) spotting all manner of native wildlife, dingos, eagles, parrots, monitors, snakes, even feral goats (didnt have my bow, easy 10 metre shots!!!!).

Mate, that trip was LIVING :-)

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## Enigma

Here's a couple of Cohikia Points I made today, from Mookaite. The one on the left has a bit more lilac colour in the tip, than what the photo shows.

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## Enigma

This is a Mookaite piece I rescued from the sh1t pile of debitage I have. It's only been bopped to get to this stage, so I have to finish it by pressure flaking. I think it will come good. It's a difficult piece, as seen in all the fissures and weak points between the reds and yellows. Mookaite sure can 'test' a knapper!!!

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## hayshaker

that theres a beauty for sure

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## crashdive123

Beautiful work and colors in the stone.

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## ravenscar

Been a while since Iv'e been here. eh?  
    Anyways I went hunting around new years in Bosque county, Tx and found lots of ...um, "potatoes?" Hard rounded stones that chipped like flint, some with a cavity in the middle. They are dull grey with "ferrous" bands, and a rocky exterior. I also found some sea shell fossils and a dull crystalline rock. here is one I found cracked openIMG_0492.jpg
the fossilIMG_0489.jpg
and the crystals IMG_0488.jpg
I was hoping I could get some information on the first one, is it useful? oh and I see some amazing work here, its great stuff!

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## hunter63

What you have there are geode's......some really have a cavern inside.
Never seen anyone work it into tools.....Though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geode

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## Rick

I almost posted the same answer but I've never seen a hollow one with no crystals. Not that they don't exist I've just never seen any. Here's some geodes I picked up last September. Scroll down to the 4th pic. My wife picked out one that weighed about 15 pounds. I was the only one with a pack. It's still there as far as I know. I was not cartin' that boulder a couple of miles back to the car. 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ighlight=geode

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## ravenscar

Here is another one I broke up someIMG_0494.jpgIMG_0493.jpg
I didn't find any geodes online that matched the "potatoes" I found, but the caverns do seem to support that.

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## Rick

Look up concretion. That might be what you have. They can make some crazy shapes. 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...#q=concretion+

https://www.google.com/search?q=conc...YQ_AUoAQ&dpr=1

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## Enigma

I just finished this 4.5inch Obsidian point necklace. The cordage is man made sinew.

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## Rick

Most excellent. a real work of art!

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## Enigma

Thanks mate, I'm glad you like it. I figured I'd make a necklace from this one, for myself, cause I'm always losing points left, right and centre on our courses (we have a primitive table of various weapons, clothing etc), and this one is a piece I like. 
At least with it around my neck, it won't accidently find it's way into someone else's pocket, or be left on the ground somewhere. :-)

Those little black beads were the only ones in my wifes sewing kit with a hole big enough for the sinew, but I think they are OK, not too over the top or distracting.

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## hunter63

Very nice work.......several friends that knap like using obsidian.....
That is a great piece.

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## Enigma

Thank-you Hunter, I am very happy you appreciate it. :-)

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