# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  Boiling water.

## christagious

Hi everybody I'm new to these forums and fairly new to wilderness survival.  I've read and seen that boiling water is a good way to purify it but I've always seen this done with ground water, river and stream water, but never lake or pond.  If you're in a situation where there is a dirty pond or lake as the sole source of water, is it safe to boil that water and drink it?  I've seen on Survivorman some situations where there was some bad looking water and he always passes on it to look for a better source of water, so does that mean that that kind of water is bad news no matter what?   I'm asking this because come spring time my friend and I are going to have a survival weekend deep in the woods and I know of a lake nearby but it may be dirty and full of parasites and I'm hoping boiling the water will help us.

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## doug1980

From what I have read is that moving water is the best to use however boiling pond or lake water will sufice.  Boil for several minutes to ensure that all parasites are taken care of.  Also I seen that if you dig a hole a foot away from the shoreline and allow the water to seep in that the water will be cleaner.  Also read that the deeper water is less contaiminated than the surface water, so dipping your container deeper will give you slightly better water.

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## tacmedic

How about boiling on over to the introductions section and telling us a little bit about yourself so that we may better tailor our answers to your specific situation.

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## hermitman

Yes you can boil the dirty pond or lake water it still won't be clean but if you need it to be clean you can just filter it. If you don't know how to do that there is information on it on this site (sorry I'm not like these other guys I'm young and lazy so just go look for yourself but its right on this site). Little side note I wouldn't go on a survival campout deep in the woods if you don't know what your doing.

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## Sarge47

I consider it rude NOT to do an intro 1st, giving your age, area where you live, etc; that way we can answer your questions better.  I'll be keeping an eye on you. :Cool:

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## MCBushbaby

The problem with some water sources is contamination either by sewage or by chemicals.  Boiling does nothing to chemicals and you can get some nasty arsenic or mercury poisoning by drinking groundwater near a mine.  Sewage in diluted amounts can be safely boiled, but sludgy water.... walk past it and keep walking!

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## crashdive123

Might I recommend a good quality water filter for your survival weekend deep in the woods.

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## snakeman

Boiling water kills parasites and stuff but doesn't remove chemicals or salt. If your at a regular lake that isn't polluted, even if the water is brown and nasty looking, boiling for a few minutes should kill the parasites. Nice, clear fast moving cold mountain stream water is good to though, but you never know when theres a rotting dead deer around upstream laying in the creek so boiling is always good to do.The reason survivor man was looking for the best water is probably because he didn't have something to boil in without digging a hole and puttin' water in it and boiling it with hot rocks or burning out a wood bowl and boiling with rocks.

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## FVR

The taking of water from it's source is very important and much ignored.

Never take surface water, and never get lake or pond water at the bottom.  Heavy metals and sediment are heavy and fall to the bottom.  Always plug your container and go a few inches under the water, I practice this even in streams.

Boiling water is always a good idea even if you have a filter.  The act of boiling makes "hard" water more digestable.  Many don't realize, up in the mountains in certain areas, if you are  not use to hard water, it will give you stomach problems.  Boiling it breaks down the properties that make it hard.

I have never had this problem, but have read about it a few times.  I am also use to hard water as where I live, it's pretty hard.

It never hurts to have a few of those iodine tabs in your kit.  I don't carry them, but have used them very successfully.  Once was in the Panama jungle, my team got lost, okay, okay, ya'll laugh but it was pretty serious.  I always carried too much, so when I pulled out 4 packages of iodine tabs, everyone was happy.  We followed the directions and drank swamp water.  It tasted nasty, but in the jungle, sweating on patrol, drinkable water was at a premium, no matter how it tasted.

So, you use a t shirt to filter particles out of the water when you pour it in your cup, then you boil the water for 15 minutes and let cool, then you add iodine tabs and you're good to go.


Other notes.  Before you pull the water, stop--------look around---------if you don't see any vegatation around the water------------something is def. wrong!!!!

If you see a sheen-----------something is def. wrong!! ---------if you see anything that deep in the back of your brain, gives you suspicion, go with the gut feeling because, something is def. wrong!!!!!!!!!

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## Jericho117

What I like to do, always with lake water, is dig a small trench near the shore and allow it to fill with water. Then 45 minutes later, all the debris and some bacteria will collect at the botton, leaving clean water on the top. Then I rock-boil it in a wooden container for about 30 minutes.

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## crashdive123

Just a question.  Why boil the water for 15 or 30 minutes as the process of bringing the water to a boil does everything that a longer boil would do?

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## wareagle69

good jobs folks between you all you covered about every aspect of finding water in the situation that was asked,so christagious read and reread very closely write down alot of what was written here it is very thourough

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## wareagle69

> Just a question.  Why boil the water for 15 or 30 minutes as the process of bringing the water to a boil does everything that a longer boil would do?


to much information out there is misleading from the so called "experts" from everything in my experience and the professionals that i have talked to brining the water to a vigourous boil for a minute will suffice, i have done this for years and have never gotten sick and niether have those that i have spoken with, but i would aslo like pict and pvgoutdoors and jason montana to put in on this point oh yeah maybe eugene also he has gotten the approval as bonafide here.
there are those that will argue the ten minute or longer theory but i hold with the idea that at 212 degrees what will die will die what good does boiling it for 10 minutes do if it dies at 212 it dies.

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## crashdive123

> to much information out there is misleading from the so called "experts" from everything in my experience and the professionals that i have talked to brining the water to a vigourous boil for a minute will suffice, i have done this for years and have never gotten sick and niether have those that i have spoken with, but i would aslo like pict and pvgoutdoors and jason montana to put in on this point oh yeah maybe eugene also he has gotten the approval as bonafide here.
> there are those that will argue the ten minute or longer theory but i hold with the idea that at 212 degrees what will die will die what good does boiling it for 10 minutes do if it dies at 212 it dies.


Agreed, and that was my point.  While boiling for 15 or 30 minutes will not hurt (other than cause evaporation loss), it will consume fuel that may need to be conserved.

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## FVR

Honestly, I don't know why I boil for 15 minutes.  It's just what I've always done.  I have this copper pot that holds about 3 cups of water.  I fill'r up and stick it on the fire and forget about it for about 15 minutes.

The question got me to wondering, so I checked a few manuals; one says 5 min., one says 8 min.  

Wondering if the longer the boil, the more break down of such things as lime and magnesium.  

I remember taking water samples up in far N.Ga., I was having problems as you need to get all the air out of the 40ml vials.  I could not do it.  The water kept bubbling in the container.  I found out that the bubbling was from water coming up from the dolemite that was high in lime.  Don't ask me why, that's what the geologist told me.


Learn something new everyday.

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## MCBushbaby

I heard you only need to boil for 2 minutes... but scientifically speaking, water is just under 212 for a while prior to visual boiling.  It's all part of the heat curve (whatever it's called)... so as soon as you see it boiling, it's been 2 minutes of sufficient heat.

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## crashdive123

Most sources that I have found state when it boils, or boils for 1 minute it is good.  Here's one source that I consider fairly reliable.  http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/contentWaterTreatment.aspx  Altitude is also a consideration.

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## crashdive123

> I heard you only need to boil for 2 minutes... but scientifically speaking, water is just under 212 for a while prior to visual boiling.  It's all part of the heat curve (whatever it's called)... so as soon as you see it boiling, it's been 2 minutes of sufficient heat.


I believe it is pastuization.

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## DNK

See, I've heard everything from "when it boils" to "30 minutes". When I went to India, we basically all settled on "when it boils +1.5min" and that seemed to work fine for a month - out of a group of 22, 0 got sick (a miracle, really). Now, I don't doubt random pond water is probably more contaminated than India's tap water, which where we were was likely pre-filtered, but that's just one experience and consensus more  :Wink: 

When I start up camping again, I plan on giving it a few minutes. I think we came to that 1.5min consensus since 1.5min kills like 99.999% of germs, and the full 30min is effectively 100%.

I'm no biologist, but I'd imagine the 1-2min rule would work best on parasites and single-celled critters, and least on bacteria and viruses. So, I suppose if you're concerned about human waste contamination for whatever reasons, a longer boil might be best (or maybe a new water source).

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## crashdive123

Here is a some more info on the topic from an ezine piece.

The main reason boiling is recommended as a water treatment is because it can be done simply and because the disease causing organisms are destroyed by heat. Holding the water at a high enough temperature for long enough will destroy pathogens. The organisms of interest are cysts such as cryptosporidia and giardia, and bacteria such as E.coli, typhoid etc. Although the boiling does not remove them from the water, it does kill them and thus they will cause no illness.
*How Long Should Water Be Boiled?*
There are many times suggested: 1 minute, 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes etc. Some advocates even suggest adding a minute to the boiling time for each 1000 feet of altitude. So which of these times is correct? After all, the amount of time the water needs to boil determines the amount of fuel needed (to boil 1 litre of water requires about a kilogram of wood). As it turns out, none of them. You do not even need to boil it for one minute - you just need to bring it to the point of boiling. Let's consider why.
According to the Wilderness Medical Society, water temperatures above 70° C (160° F) kill all pathogens within 30 minutes and above 85° C (185° F) within a few minutes. So the higher the temperature, the less time is needed to kill the micro-organisms. Bringing the water to boiling point raises it well over the 85°C mark. Not only that, but the water must then be allowed to cool (unless you are making a cuppa). So the total time the water spends above 85°C is significant and sufficient to kill pathogens.
If it is sufficient just to bring water to 85°C for a few minutes, why are you told to boil it? Basically because that is a foolproof way of guaranteeing the water will be the right temperature. Most people, do not carry thermometers with them when camping so it would be difficult to determine when the right temperature was met - once it reaches boiling you know what temperature it's at within a couple of degrees.
*How Effective is Boiling Water?*Boiling water is an effective method for destroying bacteria and other pathogens. If the water is turbid, filter it through a clean cloth, or coffee filter to remove particulate matter before boiling as that will improve its appearance.
*Boiling will not provide any safeguard against other things such as heavy metals, pesticides, herbicides, pharmaceuticals etc that may contaminate a water supply. It may remove chemicals which have a lower boiling point than water but what about the others? Neither does it remove turbidity, foul tastes and odors.*In short, boiling water does not purify your water. It is certainly effective at eliminating the target pathogens but will not be effective against other contaminants - you really need a decent water purifier for that. However, drinking boiled water is certainly better than dehydration.
With the growing number of toxic substances and the increase in sources of contamination, purified water is more important than ever for continued good health.


http://ezinearticles.com/?Does-Boili...er?&id=1383221

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## wareagle69

turbidity - that is the particle matter in water ever see cloudy water? thats turbidity which in some filters cloggs them or doesn't allow uv light to pass thru so if in your gathering you find the water cloudy then let it sit a few minutes to settle the particles then pour off to purify in your chossen method

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## wareagle69

great point crash about the boiling as a visual primer for safe water my concern up here as is most places id e-coli and that is killed with a minute of boiling which has already been shown that by the time the water is at "boiling" it has been hot enough to kill the e-coli already for 2 minutes

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## Stairman

Giardia is the most frequent cause of non-bacterial diarrea in North America.Boiling at least one minute will kill the organism.Same for cryptosporidium,which is highly resistant to chlorine and iodine.Ive read dysentery needs 10-15 minutes to boil off but not positive.It does kill40-50,000 people worldwide each year.

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## Jericho117

I just boil water for 25-30 minutes as precaution. And I cook meat the same time, or about to 45 minutes in coal-burned container.

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## red lake

I know many including me that do ot boil water from certain waters. I believe that your body bullds a natural resistance from giardia and crypto. They didn't have filters 100 years ago. It also depends on where you travel.

I am not recommending you don't filter, I just think that it is not always necessary and recognizing when it is and when it is not, is a skill worth learning.

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## klkak

Umm, I've had Giardia.....twice.....you don't build up a resistance to it.  It is not very fun to have.

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## doug1980

Well as Les said in his book if it's life or death and that's the only water you got drink it.  Even if you can't boil it.  Dehydration will kill you faster than the parasites will.

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## FVR

Ahhhhhhh...........think I'll just stick with my 15 min. boil, like.......just to be safe........why rush it, just nice to kick back, water boiling, quiet, listening to the stream, the critters, 15 minutes is nothing but relaxation time.

I'll tell ya tommorrow..............cause I'm taking the afternoon off and heading to the woods.  Gonna grab the little trout pole and see if'n I can catch myself some late season trout.  If I do get lucky, gonna cook it right there just for sheots and giggles.  Not even gonna take a gun, what the he ll do I need a gun for, I'm not gonna kill anything anyway.

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## wareagle69

[QUOTE=FVR;89672]Ahhhhhhh...........think I'll just stick with my 15 min. boil, like.......just to be safe........why rush it, just nice to kick back, water boiling, quiet, listening to the stream, the critters, 15 minutes is nothing but relaxation time.

I'll tell ya tommorrow..............cause I'm taking the afternoon off and heading to the woods.  Gonna grab the little trout pole and see if'n I can get lucky,

frank this is a family site :EEK!:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

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## FVR

Well, getting to the trout stream gonna have to wait till Friday.  Funny how stuff just pops up.

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## nell67

> Well, getting to the trout stream gonna have to wait till Friday. Funny how stuff just pops up.


Hope that was a good thing FVR,whatever it was.


WE,get your mind outta the gutter  :Embarrassment:  :Big Grin:

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## Jericho117

I know each given water source is different, and the forest I go to shows no sign of human/chemical contamination, no jets fly overhead and it is shure far back, about 2 miles. It is some natural pool that disconnects and flows rather quite rapidly for about another mile towards some giant pond. Iv'e been drinking from here since I moved here, boiling for 25-30 minutes, and gathering the water from the flowing part, and for about 6 months I have had no tell-tale signs of illness. Im not downing anyone who boils for a minute or so, but what I want to do is just an expiriement. I want to bring the water to a boil and drink from it for a good solid week, and the outcome will tell me, at least, weather or not I feel this is an effective method. I have never done this, but it shure would be nice to boil for a minute.

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## wareagle69

well all i know is that it takes too much effert to grab fuel for my fires so i bring my kettle to just a boil and drink my tea i have been doing that for years now. i have only been sick once gastro discofmort for about two weeks and that was when i used a buddies canteen with his water, was either that or the steak i cooked on the coals but i tend to think the water- unknown source that will never happen again.

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## shane87

I am a restaurant manager and have to take a food safty course every few years. I also always wanted to now how long to boil water to make safe. All you must do to make all food safe is bring it F165 for 15 seconds. That will kill 99.99 of bactera.  In high altitude that maybe boiling because the higher you go the lower water boils at, but at sea level the water needs only to boil to be more than safe.

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## christagious

Thanks everybody for the information, very useful stuff.  And now that I've gotten my answer(s), I"m going to head to the introduction section since a few people said I should do that.

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## ride_gnu

Boiling Water:

You should boil water for 5 minutes to ensure you kill all harmfull pathogens.  Some people say you can get away with as little as 1 minute of boiling at sea level, adding one additional minute for every 1000 feet above see level.  However as all ready stated boiling water does not kill chemicals.


Personally when obtaining water from a lake I would do the following;

1) Check the sorroundings;
     A) No vegetation, black water, scum on the top, see if you can find other sources.
     B) If the above is all OK, check to see if animals drink from the lake.  If they do    make sure you dont gather nearby or gather upstream of them.  They often deficate where the drink.

2) Obtain the water;
    A)  If possible walk back as far as possible from the water and dig a whole below the water table.  Water from the lake will eventually drain in. This allows the dirt all the way between the lake and your hole to filter as much water as possible.
    B)  If the above is not an option obtain you water as close to around half the depth

3) Filter
   A) if you please you cna filter the water before you drink it, however possible pass it through rocks, pebbles, sand, clothes and charcoal

PS:

Im not 100% sure about this one perhaps someon could clear it up.  But I've read that if you have an upset stomach you can mix charcoal and colas from the fire into water and drink it.  I assume this is becuase it is a base and will help netralize painfull acids in your stomach.  HOWEVER if it is the water that is making you sick in the first place I am not sure if you want to mix it with charcoal and drink more of it.

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## Deer Sniper

I am a Licensed Class 2 water treatment operator, and the official E.P.A. line is that water brought to a ROLLING boil for one minute is officially disinfected. As mentioned earlier this will of course not remove chemical contamination, but neither will filtering. Activated carbon will help reduce some chemical contamination, and is included in some hiking filters for this reason, but it cannot be relied upon to remove it all. The better your raw water quality, the better your finished water quality, and the longer your filter will last. It is always a good idea to follow up filtration with either chlorination or iodine addition for disinfection, filters remove particles in water, they don't disinfect. It is true that hiking filters generally remove most pathogens, however following this up with chemical disinfection provides a second level of protection and a higher likelihood of avoiding illness. This having been said, I feel perfectly comfortable with drinking water filtered from most stream, spring or lake sources in north America without following this up with chemical addition. Provided a filter from a reputable company like "PURE" or "katahdin" in good condition was used.

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## Stairman

It should be noted that bacteria can exist in the filter after use.Silver is added to many highend filters to counter act this.Otherwise storing the cartrige in the freezer or a snow bank will kill it.

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## RBB

> From what I have read is that moving water is the best to use however boiling pond or lake water will sufice.


In our neck of the woods - lake water (if it is a larger lake) is preferable to running water.  Streams and rivers are where beaver are most likely to have their lodges.  Beaver - or Deer = Beaver Fever AKA Giardia.  If you ever get giradia - you'll never want to repeat the experience.

Taking water fro the center of a large lake will make getting giardia much less likely, but you are always taking a chance.

Many parts of the country there are a great many other impurities you have to worry about.  If that is the case where you live - I'd suggest getting a PUR (or other brand) water purifier.  Where giardia is the only concern - you can get by with a water filter.

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## primeelite

What I have done as far as lake water is if I have a clean old rag or t-shirt laying around I put it over top of the container to strain out any pebbles, algae, and other junk that may get in it then I boil for at least 15 minutes to make sure everything is gone. To be honest it still takes like sh** most of the time so if you are just doing it for a mock survival situation you will probably only do it a few times before you go back to your bottled water but it is still fun just to try to make sure you are used to it and know how to correctly do it.

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## TDG

Pond or lake water usually doesn't flow. The sun can easily warm still water and warm, not-moving water is a perfect breeding place for harmful bacteria (e.g. legionella).

Although this isn't very common in larger lakes, you still have to watch out for it.

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## CreekWalker

Here is a site that explains the different methods and the pros/con of each. Evian bottled water spelled backwards is Naive  :Smile: 

http://www.historyofwaterfilters.com...tillation.html

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