# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  hand drill: Start to ember

## Antonyraison

Finally have it all on video

----------


## Rick

Outstanding. I admire any of you guys that have the shoulder strength to do the bow or hand drill. Too many surgeries for me to handle either. Nice job!!!!

----------


## Antonyraison

> Outstanding. I admire any of you guys that have the shoulder strength to do the bow or hand drill. Too many surgeries for me to handle either. Nice job!!!!


Thank you Rick, yeah it is indeed a hectic workout!

----------


## hunter63

> Outstanding. I admire any of you guys that have the shoulder strength to do the bow or hand drill. Too many surgeries for me to handle either. Nice job!!!!


And I am admire the "getting up and down skills"....LOL
Nice job thanks for posting.....

----------


## Antonyraison

Hahahah thanks man

----------


## crashdive123

Well done.

----------


## JohnLeePettimore

> And I am admire the "getting up and down skills"....LOL
> Nice job thanks for posting.....


Ditto.

Getting up and down is the worst part of any job I'm doing.  It makes me the most sore, too.  Working on a vehicle is what usually has the most of that, so that makes it even worse.

----------


## Antonyraison

Yeah I guess getting up and down can get problematic..
I try to do a lot of exercising to keep pretty mobile... and I am still pretty Young (37)

----------


## crashdive123

37?  Some of us have socks older than that.   :Whistling:

----------


## Antonyraison

> 37?  Some of us have socks older than that.


hahahah  :Smile:

----------


## hunter63

> 37?  Some of us have socks older than that.


I have ammo I reloaded that is older than that.....and get asked something if it's  still good from time to time
I just tell them...Donno, I best get some "fresh stuff"?

----------


## Billofthenorth

Just curious if anyone has tried it successfully with one of those hand operated drills? I don't know if it would save any weight, just another tid bit for the tool bag I guess.

----------


## JohnLeePettimore

> Just curious if anyone has tried it successfully with one of those hand operated drills? I don't know if it would save any weight, just another tid bit for the tool bag I guess.


I have a couple of those "egg-beaters": a 1/4" and a 3/8".  I call them my "cordless drills".

I like the 1/4" (it's a Schroder that I ordered from Amazon).  It's small and pretty handy.  I don't know about the 3/8".  I got it for almost nothing at a yard sale, and it is definitely not as nice as the Schroder, but construction and quality are not the problems.  I've only tried using it on pine, and with the larger drill bits it can be a pain to work.  You don't really have much leverage with them, and the bits hang up in the hard grain of pine.  It might be okay in woods that have a more homogeneous grain.

For larger holes, the old brace and auger bits are way better.  For small holes, the egg-beater is okay.

----------


## hunter63

Not sure they would work well as a "fire drill".....I thinking that the back and forth motion is important

Did try it with a 3/8 battery drill.....maybe to fast, but just glazed the wood....so no joy..

----------


## JohnLeePettimore

> Not sure they would work well as a "fire drill".....I thinking that the back and forth motion is important
> 
> Did try it with a 3/8 battery drill.....maybe to fast, but just glazed the wood....so no joy..


I answered it as a a hi-jack with a straight face.

I am really a wanna-be on this forum, but I still get surprised when people who sound like they have a lot more experience than I talk about including friction fire-starting stuff in their BOBs.  The skill is great, I'm sure, as a last-ditch kid of thing, but a Bic (hell, even a Scripto) beats a bow-drill like a Smith&Wesson beats 4 aces.

----------


## hunter63

> I answered it as a a hi-jack with a straight face.
> 
> I am really a wanna-be on this forum, but I still get surprised when people who sound like they have a lot more experience than I talk about including friction fire-starting stuff in their BOBs.  The skill is great, I'm sure, as a last-ditch kid of thing, but a Bic (hell, even a Scripto) beats a bow-drill like a Smith&Wesson beats 4 aces.


Yeah...just goes to show you that a lot of people have tried a lot of things....over the years....and that many of us think the same way.

Never had any luck with a bow drill.....or hand drill for that matter....so as funny as it sounds the possibility of a power version seem logical.....More speed?...Right?....Nope.

So the next step is to wonder why?....Wrong type of wood?...for the drill (dowel) ...fireboard, dried poplar .......?
Too fast? too slow......That's what my slightly different thought process came up with ....as I was thinking about it while lighting up a cigarette with my Bic.

Next thought was, ....Why am I doing this to myself?....As I was trying to get up off the ground
I do admire those that have researched materials, found the proper technique, practiced and were successful....AND when through the work of making a video to share their success with us.

So a mechanical drill would seem a logical ..."I wonder what would happen if.".... alternate method...LOL
To paraphrase a famous man..." I didn't fail...I discovered another way that didn't work"

----------


## Antonyraison

> I answered it as a a hi-jack with a straight face.
> 
> I am really a wanna-be on this forum, but I still get surprised when people who sound like they have a lot more experience than I talk about including friction fire-starting stuff in their BOBs.  The skill is great, I'm sure, as a last-ditch kid of thing, but a Bic (hell, even a Scripto) beats a bow-drill like a Smith&Wesson beats 4 aces.


You right friction fire is a last ditch thing, If I am carrying kit (and mostly always am) I am not going to carry extra paraphernalia to help with a friction fire, as I will likely have a ferro-rod, a lighter and some matches..
The point knowing friction fire is only if you so unlucky to loose your fire kit or main kit, or get stranded with out kit.

I have never tried those hand crank drills for a friction fire, and I dont really see the point to try, as I must practice it how I would do it in an actual situation

----------


## Antonyraison

> Yeah...just goes to show you that a lot of people have tried a lot of things....over the years....and that many of us think the same way.
> 
> Never had any luck with a bow drill.....or hand drill for that matter....so as funny as it sounds the possibility of a power version seem logical.....More speed?...Right?....Nope.
> 
> So the next step is to wonder why?....Wrong type of wood?...for the drill (dowel) ...fireboard, dried poplar .......?
> Too fast? too slow......That's what my slightly different thought process came up with ....as I was thinking about it while lighting up a cigarette with my Bic.
> 
> Next thought was, ....Why am I doing this to myself?....As I was trying to get up off the ground
> I do admire those that have researched materials, found the proper technique, practiced and were successful....AND when through the work of making a video to share their success with us.
> ...


Friction fire is not particularly easy, I dont know many people that got it right 1st time, and if they did, it is  because they used a known working set, and where well coached in form and technique, and then where still pretty lucky.
Wood selection is certainly a factor, knowing the properties of the woods, them being dry enough... then the making of the set is a point over looked.. some care need to be taken with the size and length of spindle, the hearth board and the bow..
The amount of pressure you place on the bearing block, the tension in the bow string, the notch in the hearth fire board..
the right technique, and a  damn lot of practice.. each one took me about 4 weeks worth of practice before I actually managed to get the 1st respective embers..
Is this a technique I would depend my life on? hell no..
If I had to do it could I? possibly!

----------


## Antonyraison

> Just curious if anyone has tried it successfully with one of those hand operated drills? I don't know if it would save any weight, just another tid bit for the tool bag I guess.


the answer to your question is a pump drill..

----------


## Antonyraison

and lastly but most importantly, why is it that I do such strange techniques ? where there are about a million easier methods?
Simple, I have to! I have been training well over 3 years, slowly becoming an elite survival Ranger and I am to start teaching courses so there are a lot of methods I should know and how to do them, as well as demonstrate and teach them.
One of our requirements is to be able to do friction fire, among  many other requirements and actual dirt time, with specific Gear or lack of gear requirement to survive in many different biomes and weather to show proficiency in what We actually learnt, and then once all those requirements have been met we still hand picked to get to the level I am at, and further training and hours teaching various courses supervised by a head instructor, then after that we eventually become an Instructor..and you still need to log hours and days on various other courses by just attending them/helping/instructing... Thats basically the way We work through the "school"

----------


## hunter63

So Anthony....do you think that the "back and forth" motion has anything to do with it?

----------


## edr730

Some woods are almost impossible to use. Most pines and hardwoods won't work. If you buy cedar for the board and spindle and dry it over night on a hot plate you will have an ember easily if your notch and form are anywhere close to reasonable.  
If you wish to create an ember without the hotplate or other methods to dry it then you will need to dry the board and spindle with friction from the bow with light pressure which is a slower process and the length of time that will take depends on how much moisture the wood has in it and how many tricks you have up your sleeve. Sometimes it still won't work. It is best to dry your equipment ahead of time and protect it from moisture in the air such as a zip lock bag or oiled leather wrap. If you dry your equipment by the fire each night protect it and become proficient you will have an ember every night in seconds.
There are lots of little tricks and things you should know or learn but very dry and the right wood are where you should start.

----------


## Antonyraison

> So Anthony....do you think that the "back and forth" motion has anything to do with it?


hahah its not the size of the boat... its the motion of the ocean.. lol
I dont really know how to answer that... maybe it does, but physically cant really do it another way I suppose.

----------


## Antonyraison

> Some woods are almost impossible to use. Most pines and hardwoods won't work. If you buy cedar for the board and spindle and dry it over night on a hot plate you will have an ember easily if your notch and form are anywhere close to reasonable.  
> If you wish to create an ember without the hotplate or other methods to dry it then you will need to dry the board and spindle with friction from the bow with light pressure which is a slower process and the length of time that will take depends on how much moisture the wood has in it and how many tricks you have up your sleeve. Sometimes it still won't work. It is best to dry your equipment ahead of time and protect it from moisture in the air such as a zip lock bag or oiled leather wrap. If you dry your equipment by the fire each night protect it and become proficient you will have an ember every night in seconds.
> There are lots of little tricks and things you should know or learn but very dry and the right wood are where you should start.


correct, good tips for starting out. Set up yourself as best as possible for success when u 1st learning.

----------


## crashdive123

I have gotten an ember with a power drill.  Like H63, when I first tried it I glazed the wood.  I slowed the speed down a bit on the next attempt and it worked.  I was using cedar for a spindle and hearth board.

----------


## hunter63

> I have gotten an ember with a power drill.  Like H63, when I first tried it I glazed the wood.  I slowed the speed down a bit on the next attempt and it worked.  I was using cedar for a spindle and hearth board.


So you saying that "If a little does a little good a lot will do a lot of good.......But not always?......LOL
Slower is better....

I have actually gotten embers form a dull worn out bit in steel dropping on sawdust on my work bench....although i thn it may have just been hot drilling.

Maybe I have to try it again.....I can take the failure....Yeah...That's the ticket....LOL .

----------


## crashdive123

You should see the embers I have gotten when I start grinding steel after working on wood or micarta and forgetting to clean out the grinder.

----------


## Antonyraison

now if you can just find power drills on trees... hahah

----------


## hunter63

Current bush......

----------


## Antonyraison

> Current bush......


indeed hahah... if you have it close and handy use it.

----------


## hunter63

> indeed hahah... if you have it close and handy use it.


Actually have a funny story....1988
Hunting and camping out of pop-up camper  on a ranch in Wyoming, ...along Old Woman Creek...(dry most of the year)

One guy brings his hair dryer....washes his hair, plugs into the 110 outlet in the trailer...and couldn't figure out why it didn't work.

We had lights and furnace (12 volt of a battery).....so it was what the heck????
He knew that there was an inverter....soooo...(only takes 110 v and makes 12v) so you need the 110 to start with.

The "current bush" jokes are still brought up to this day....

----------


## bigbob

It is a comfort to know that if matches, lighters, fire steel, etc get lost, I still have a good chance of making a fire by friction. Years ago I took a survival course and the instructor showed his tricks of right woods, holding wrist tight to shin with bow drill,etc. Hand drill down assist with cordage pull down on one thumb. Etc. With bad, we'd, damp weather it gets more difficult, but might be done. Having fire is nice.
Bob

----------

