# Survival > Primitive Skills & Technology >  Simple Survival Scenario

## Basic Human

What if Im a vegan, who hunts fish and eats plants and does not eat mushrooms and bugs. Im in a jungle of Papua New Guinea. I  know which plants are edible and which are not. There are no predators. The weather is hot so I don't need clothes, but what about the coldness of the rain? Water can be acquired by rain, streams, or plants. My goal is not to get out of wilderness but stay in it. I don't use any tools, but instead I use my mind. No tools, no backpack, nothing naked man, with only intelligence. I make a shelter on a tree by using leaves and some sticks. I hunt fish with rock traps and hands, but that's not tools because that is not crafted. I eat plants and fish raw, don't make fire and use knife.

My concerns are: Malaria, diseases, insects, venomous snakes, poison

I ask this because I have no experience being in wilderness. I know that this is possible. But what about surviving without any equipment animalistic survival, nothing using just your mind? Example monkeys use their intelligence, but sometimes use tools.

Im asking this question: Does your life depend on your tools and the use of technology? Is it really necessary? I think I can survive without tools, but again I have no experience. Replacing tools with intelligence?

If you don't agree with replacing tools with intelligence, what can I do with the tools, what can I get from the tools?

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## BENESSE

> If you don't agree with replacing tools with intelligence, what can I do with the tools, what can I get from the tools?


Using tools _is_ a sign of intelligence. Not either or.

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## Rick

Go read this: 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ve-in-the-Wild

Then put some clothes on and stop by our Introductions section and use your mind to tell us a bit about yourself. For all we know you're 12 years old (no offense to 12 year olds). 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...r-Introduction

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## JPGreco

> *What if Im a vegan*, who hunts fish and eats plants and does not eat mushrooms and bugs. Im in a jungle of Papua New Guinea. I  know which plants are edible and which are not. There are no predators. The weather is hot so I don't need clothes, but what about the coldness of the rain? Water can be acquired by rain, streams, or plants. My goal is not to get out of wilderness but stay in it. I don't use any tools, but instead I use my mind. No tools, no backpack, nothing naked man, with only intelligence. I make a shelter on a tree by using leaves and some sticks. *I hunt fish with rock traps* and hands, but that's not tools because that is not crafted. I eat plants and fish raw, don't make fire and use knife.
> 
> My concerns are: Malaria, diseases, insects, venomous snakes, poison
> 
> I ask this because I have no experience being in wilderness. I know that this is possible. But what about surviving without any equipment animalistic survival, nothing using just your mind? Example monkeys use their intelligence, but sometimes use tools.
> 
> Im asking this question: Does your life depend on your tools and the use of technology? Is it really necessary? I think I can survive without tools, but again I have no experience. Replacing tools with intelligence?
> 
> If you don't agree with replacing tools with intelligence, what can I do with the tools, what can I get from the tools?


First Bold:  Vegans don't eat fish.  

Second Bold:  Regardless of your opinion, using rocks as a trap is using them as a tool.

You obviously have little intelligence in the subject as well considering even animals use tools.  Several species of monkeys use sticks to get termites.  Some vultures hold rocks in their beak to break open eggs.  Some dolphins use sponge to protect their nose when foraging the sea floor.  Elephants can do a multitude of actions with "tools".  Otters use rocks to smash shellfish.  

As for running naked, animals also use more than just their skin as protection from the elements.  Many species use mud.  Crustaceans fashion shells.

Basically, your plan = death since you are forgoing any means of protection or any means to make fire or shelter.

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## Rick

Wait a minute. Monkeys use sticks? I've been digging 'em out with my fingers.

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## JPGreco

Yeah, those damn monkeys will be running the government soon.... oh wait!  Damn....

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## Rick

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## Camp10

> What if Im a vegan, who hunts


I got this far and lost interest...does this make me a bad person?

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## BENESSE

I think we're talking about a really young person here. You can just tell by the reasoning. So I'll cut him/her some slack until further enlightenment.

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## crashdive123

English may be a second language too.  He's coming to us from Serbia.

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## BENESSE

BH, ako si iz Srbije, odakle si, bolan? I kako si nabasao ovde?

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## Brazito

Come on now wait a minute!!! Let's look at this as a learning opportunity. Let's assume we're dropped off on a deserted island with nothing but health and knowledge.  Now what??? Kinda like Tom Hanks in Cast Away.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

Ok... yes the op is young with out a doubt. The scenario at best is futile the way it is presented. Not having training but knowing what plants to eat or even to make a rock trap is fantasy at best. NOT making fire is SURE death in a hurry. Drinking water from a native stream without treating it will get you killed in a matter of hours. Eating fish raw from fresh and/or salt water is very, very risky. 

In 1988, I went through a course in the US Navy that was the precursor to SERE. It was basic jungle survival. It was 1 days training and then 14 days with only a knife and the clothes on my back to include a shirt, pants, socks, boots and a boonie hat as well as a web belt and my dog tags. It was on an island very similar to Papua New Guinea and was in the Marianas island chain. My priorities were as follows,  hidden from enemy view fire, water, shelter, food and then finally signaling for friendlies. I saved my knife as much as possible and used local material to make various knives, tools, weapons and comfort items. I gathered and caught ANYTHING that would give me nourishment, although I COOKED or boiled everything I found no matter how innocent it may have looked.

At the end of the 14 days, my condition was: I had lost 23 pounds (I did eat fairly well both meat/seafood and veggies/fruit), I had two infections from open wounds I received from scratches or other cuts, I had a rash on my outer thigh that was beginning to bleed and the worse of it all...I had crotch and foot rot, skin just literally falling off in those areas, even though I tried to keep them as dry as possible. It took me 1 month aboard a hospital ship to recover fully before I could go back to active duty with my team.  

1. If you are hungry enough, you will eat the arse out of a muddy wild boar, vegan or not. 

2. Your three biggest medical issues in the jungle are Infection, skin rot and Malaria. Physical is dehydration, wounds and starvation (even if you seem to be eating/drinking a lot of food/water).

3. Using tools either commercial or made by you will in fact show intelligence. The logic of using tools saves energy, stress and a higher likelyhood of actual survival. 

4. If you have only one tool, made or issued, the KNIFE will gain you the highest advantage in a survival situation if you know how to use it. I looked up the geologic and plant/animal record of Papua New Guinea. There is obsidian, flint and various other volcanic minerals, seashells, razor wood, coconut husks and bamboo of all sorts in both the interior and coastal areas. All of those materials can make very effective knives/tools if you know how to work them without tools from the get go. The uses of a knife in survival are litterally endless, limited only to your intelligence and/or learned knowledge.

5. Many of the edible plants and fruits there have to be processed to make them safe. If you think you are just going to walk into a mango grove and pig out, you have much to learn. The areas with edible foods in Papua New Guinea or any habited island are very well known by the native population there and they guard their CROPS with their lives. You steal from them, you yourself will become dinner and your head on a spike at the chiefs hut. They will not care that you are in a survival situation or what congressman you may know. 

6. On TV and in movies people survive very well in some situations because they have had countless takes and re-takes at what looks very easy. Even the so called pro's like Les Stroud, Cody Lundane, Dave Matulla and so many others are allowed do overs and re-takes, they also have a back up medical/rescue team available. If you are in a REAL survival situation, you usually get ONE chance to do something right or risk injury and/or death........ *Being thrust into a situation of survive, thrive or die without even basic knowledge of fire making, use of native materials for shelter, food & water gathering and weapons.....I'd give you maybe at best 3 days of running around naked before you either die from ignorance and/or a combo of stupidity and bad choices...... I believe that is stretching it.*..... Thinking you will just drink the rain.... from what, just stand out there with your mouth open while it rains...you will need a vessal of some kind...various plants can excrete poisons when wet, do you know which ones, do you know how to process the water that has rolled down from plant leaves and or vines that have poisons and/or inedible bugs in it? 

7. I actually spit my coffee when you said you will just make a shelter in the trees from leaves and twigs......YOU better learn about ANTS. You better know what trees and plant life does NOT have ants. You will not see them during the day but you will feel them at night. 

All in all, very remote scenario, survivable yes, but only with the knowledge and training one must have to get through that scene. This all just in my humble opinion  :Smile:  *Steps down from my RANT box.*

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## hunter63

> What if Im a vegan..............


Native Americam word for vegan "Bad hunter"

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> Native Americam word for vegan "Bad hunter"


In Lakota that would be "loyacin" meaning "You are hungry".

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## OhioGrizzLapp

LOL Hunter, that actually made me really laugh out loud.

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## BH51

I would share the need for the health concerns foremost within
the scenerio painted...Yes, I think our human intellegence would
be the key to any chance of survival...And I would use it to aid
in gathering food and shelter construction as needed...I do not
believe we as human would survive as we are creatures keyed to
learn quickly to compensate for our limited capabilities...Our first
tool manufacture will likely be extensions of our arms..........BH51

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## Basic Human

I did not mean naked man without clothes, just no tools, backpack, unplanned situation, accidental. Not prepared any equipment, tools or backpack. If you are accidentally in a jungle. My post looks young because I have no experience being in wilderness, Im not 12 years old.

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## kyratshooter

> I did not mean naked man without clothes, just no tools, backpack, unplanned situation, accidental. Not prepared any equipment, tools or backpack. If you are accidentally in a jungle. My post looks young because I have no experience being in wilderness, Im not 12 years old.


If I am in a jungle it IS an accident!  Been there, did not like it and I am not going back!

If I am in New Guinea I was kidnapped and taken there by force, not by accident!

It may be unbleavable but many of us have spent out lives preparing NOT to be caught in this situation, accidental or not.  We wear belts and boot laces made from 550 cord and carry multitools on or belts at all times.  We do strange thngs like carrying three ways to make fire, a knife and signal gear on our key chains.

Then, in case that dosen't work out, we learn to work bone, stone and shell into tools, make fire without matches and work natural fiber into cordage, build snares, make weapons, fasion shelters and cook bugs.

But not in freakin' New Guinea!

Yes, people can stumble around in the woods and live on roots and road killed animals for a time.  It has been done.  But if they are not rescued they will eventually surcumb to lack of shelter, lack of food or disease.   Having skills and tools extends your time frame.  The difference between staying alive and thriving is knowing how to make the tools it takes to thrive.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

Basic Human: If you have NO skills, you will die, simple as that. Your intelliegnce will only get you so far until it needs to be put to practical use. Like I said, No fire, no LIFE.

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## Rick

Basic Human - If you would have posted an introduction it would have helped. If you're not 12 then maybe you're 13. (shrug). Do you have jungles in Serbia?

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## Rick

> But not in freakin' New Guinea!


Nice, real nice. Now we'll probably have an international incident with the pygmies because you bad mouthed New Guinea.

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## Basic Human

You people who say that you need fire to survive is nonesence. Humans have accidentally found fire and before that they were perfectly fine ate meat raw had shelter without fire usage and they did not had tools, they were perfectly fine not much tools they weren't dead, but they haven't got intelligence that may kill them. Chimps don't make fire. I don't agree with your comment. Ok I will make fire when only necessary, example as said to clean fish from parasites. But I am not a fool to attract bears I would rather eat fish raw, unless it's from amazon river. Amazon river has the most dangerous parasites in the world and the quality of water is bad.

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## Basic Human

I think Amazon jungles is the most dangerous jungle in the world. It has deadly parasites everywhere, fire ants, bad quality water, many poisonous plants, venomous snakes, it's called hell on earth.

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## Basic Human

There are forests that look like jungles in national parks.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> You people who say that you need *fire to survive is nonesence.* Humans have accidentally found fire and before that they were perfectly fine ate meat raw had shelter without fire usage and *they did not had tools*, they were perfectly fine not much tools they weren't dead, but they haven't got intelligence that may kill them. Chimps don't make fire. I don't agree with your comment. Ok I will make fire when only necessary, example as said to clean fish from parasites. But I am not a fool to attract bears I would rather eat fish raw, unless it's from amazon river. Amazon river has the most dangerous parasites in the world and the quality of water is bad.


 Man!! How far back in history are you going? For over 50,000 years man has had tools. Also their systems were more hardy than ours, (We've gotten "soft" in a lot of ways) and STILL suffered from intestinal parasites and such, even AFTER man started using the fire he "found".

Tell you what.... you just go ahead and try it with nothing and you'll get nothing.  Well maybe an early grave. 

You might want to check into what you are suggesting. Please DON'T take my word for it. Look, REALLY Look into what you are talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer




>  Early humans made and controlled ﬁre around 500,000 years ago


 From this.....
http://www.eduplace.com/ss/socsci/ca...LS_6_02_01.pdf
Tools for the last 120,000 years or so......


> In the desert near the Straits of Hormuz, Hans-Peter Uerpmann of the University of Tubingen, Germany, and his colleagues have excavated stone tools that date from about 125,000 years ago.


http://www.newscientist.com/article/...s-thought.html

This is what has made Mankind so successful... his Brains and his tools.

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## Rick

That's also they reason early man only lived to his 20s, too. Death came early and certain in those days.

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## hunter63

I guess it would help if you kinda let us know where you are going with this.
Primitive man had fire for thousands of years, didn't live long, and by all evidence, didn't really have much going for them except a brain.

Took a long time, thousands of years, of weeding out the "not so bright ones" to get by with little or nothing, and learning the hard way (They died?)

So, if the scenario is that you are dropped in a jungle  (weren't born there, whatever jungle you can chose, as we are up to two now), then, to survive you would need to use anything you have at your disposal to get by for even a short time.

You are are already limiting your self by stating that you are a vegan, not so big on tools, or fire, or shelter (sleeping in trees wasn't fun when I was 12, and I doubt it got much better in the last 50 years.

It takes time to learn the way of surviving (where ever you happen to be), but with your stated limitations, I doubt you would make it long enough to live.

If it were me, I think I would try the back yard for a day or two and see how it goes (This actualy worked out pretty well when I was 10-12 or so)

Good luck

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## OhioGrizzLapp

Uhmmm there are NO bears in PNG..... pre fire humans died at an average age of 23 years old, after fire it rose to 37. You really need to get educated on survival before saying another thing. Your scenario is out landish and your inference to no fire is just insane. Your assumptions you will just live off the land free and clear is so out of whack that it is not even funny. People that know are telling you, you will die.....that is education and experiance talking, not people talking out of their arse. 

Yes, there are rain forests in the USA, Canada that are very dense but the animal population and the flora and fauna are highly different, OH and there are bears in those. Making a fire does not attract them to your site, it is the food you cook there.... best to cook near far enough away stream and eat there and leave the food far away from your site. 

Amazon jungles are much more percentage wise to have you survive than an island jungle. There is more diversity and land mass in the Amazon, but, you had better have real fire in the Amazon....it will not attract the Poison Parakeets nor the 7 legged lizzard. It will however kill all parasites and zoa's that will kill you in hours time. It will also keep the HUGE mosquitos away if you make enough smoke with citrus leaves and fruit skins. At night in the Amazon, it comes alive with all things that will bite, sting, squeeze and carry you away as a snack. 

Honestly, you are defending a position that is NOT logical nor true in any fashion. Unless you fall into Utopia or Garden of Eden and even then, you cannot eat the dang apples... your positions will get you dead and quickly.

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## Rick

Wait! What? I'm not supposed to eat the apples? No one told me.

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## BENESSE

Maybe he's thinking of the Jungle Book. So you _know_ it's possible.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

Rick... you are a tainted man you are.......... what serpent got you to eat the apples......personally, I eat persimmons, apples give me gas something horrible LOL

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## OhioGrizzLapp

* sings "I've got the Bear Necessities, the simple bare necessities........." Even Maguay knows you need fire to survive.....and he was less than 12 years old. I love that King Louis was done my Louis Prima......* rubs back and arse against my door frame and office chair.... now I am doin the bear scratch in my office chair and my daughter laughed LOL She dared call me a silly old hairy man......gasp, I am NOT hairy dang it.

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## Trabitha

> Come on now wait a minute!!! Let's look at this as a learning opportunity. Let's assume we're dropped off on a deserted island with nothing but health and knowledge.  Now what??? Kinda like Tom Hanks in Cast Away.


But Hanks had tools...and a volleyball.  :Wink:

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## Trabitha

> You people who say that you need fire to survive is nonesence. Humans have accidentally found fire and before that they were perfectly fine ate meat raw had shelter without fire usage and they did not had tools, they were perfectly fine not much tools they weren't dead, but they haven't got intelligence that may kill them. Chimps don't make fire. I don't agree with your comment. Ok I will make fire when only necessary, example as said to clean fish from parasites. But I am not a fool to attract bears I would rather eat fish raw, unless it's from amazon river. Amazon river has the most dangerous parasites in the world and the quality of water is bad.


If you were here in the US right now...you would totally need fire to survive.  Sorry...
Not to mention, that fire to cook is rather important.  Through the generations we've learned that when trying to eat meat uncooked, you body has a harder time digesting it and obtaining enough nutrients from it.  Cooking has been proven to be better for you, thus a very important survival tool.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

Fire is more than a tool for the material things (food, water, tools, heat etc), it is also a tool for the mind, it is comforting and can even bring about peace of mind. Fire is so important in so many ways, it is like a well made knife, the uses are limted only to your minds ability.

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## BENESSE

In case y'all haven't noticed, BH is coming from a whole different mindset that's counter intuitive and illogical. Won't make a bit of a difference _what_ you say. We all know people like that.

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## Rick

And just why were you looking at me when you said that?!

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## BENESSE

Frankly, I didn't know where to look first.

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## crashdive123

Basic Human - I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.  You said in your original post that you would replace tools with intelligence.  Let me offer this advice - KEEP THE TOOLS since it seems that the replacement for them is currently out of stock.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> *Fire is more than a tool* for the material things (food, water, tools, heat etc), it is also a tool for the mind, it is comforting *and can even bring about peace of mind*. Fire is so important in so many ways, it is like a well made knife, the uses are limted only to your minds ability.


Funny you say that. When I was homeless, it was my "TV". Nothing to do before going to bed but sit and poke at the fire a bit before going to sleep. Flames can be so.....mesmerizing.

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## JPGreco

haha, accidentally in the jungle.  Oh my god man, seriously?  Tell me how you accidentally end up in a jungle other than shipwreck or plane crash (in both cases you have a hell of a lot more to worry about).  What, you're walking down the street and take a left instead of a right and suddenly you're lost in a jungle?

And the comment about ancient man being able to survive without fire just shows how much intelligence you lack.  Stay out of the jungles of papau new guinea.  Stay out of jungles in general.  Stick to populated areas.

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## Rick

Let's not make it personal. Whether we agree of not, comment on the idea not the person.

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## hunter63

I think that there is a place in a lot of people's minds that tells them that they CAN be dropped naked into anywhere, and survive,
that is hard wired from 1000's (or million's) of years of trial (live) and error (die).

Seems that the desire to try this out is still there, judging by the amount of interest  shown in these scenarios..

Most all these scenarios quickly turn in to.......... "I can survive, naked with just my wits.....ah... and maybe fire....and a knife(new, pick one)...and yeah, yeah, maybe my .45 etc. etc.

My suggestion to you BH is,  "Hey, go for it............... and let us know how it went".

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> My suggestion to you BH is,  "Hey, go for it............... and let us know how it went".


 While part of agrees with what you say here, the other part of me is afraid that he will....with Drastic Irreversible Consequences.

@Basic Human Before you do try anything I strongly encourage you to do Much more research on Survival. Here are some threads you might want to check out.........
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t-Really-Works

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ve-in-the-Wild

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...erness-Numptys!

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ival-kits-info.

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## beetlejuicex3

You've got it wrong, Camp10.  He doesn't just hunt anything, he hunts *fish*.  See?

And by the way.  Bear Gryls does this very thing every week so I know it's possible!

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## OhioGrizzLapp

LOL My nick name for the longest time when I managed Pine Lake Trout Club was...... wait for it............. "Trout Hunter," LOLOLOL ......mostly because my Choc Lab at the time would actually POINT on trout in the stream at the club... was actually really funny.

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## BH51

> I did not mean naked man without clothes, just no tools, backpack, unplanned situation, accidental. Not prepared any equipment, tools or backpack. If you are accidentally in a jungle. My post looks young because I have no experience being in wilderness, Im not 12 years old.


.......Actually, your post looks young to me (your lacking expression and considerable contradictions within)......
Your age is of no consequence and IF I were to wake-up and find myself in a tropical jungle unprepared and restrict myself
to being a fish eating vegan that expects to survive without the aid of fire or tools...Well,...my days would be numbered few.
.......I think within the concept of survival...One MUST use everything within ones disposal to survive,...otherwise intellegence
is meaningless....One must adapt and adopt...and for the record, "I ain't crazy about eating bugs either".......................BH51

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## Basic Human

What can happen if I don't have fire. Chimps didn't die without fire. What if I don't know how to make fire. Chimps eat raw meat, other monkeys, mammals, they are cannibals and beasts and they don't cook their meat. Eskimos eat raw fish. Why do you think that person who does not make fire is absolutely dead, again this has no sence. Example that you can't teach a wild child, like a syrian gazelle boy who had 10 years in the wilderness, imitating gazelles, eating raw plants, did not know to make fire. The risk of death of a wild child is determined by the animal. I have given examples of a way of living, and Tom Hanks in his castaway film practiced for years to make fire, and he was alive for years without having fire. So I think your thoughts are irrational.

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## Rick

You do realize that Tom Hanks was in a movie, don't you? It wasn't real. There certainly is a lot of irrational thoughts in this thread, I will agree with that. However, you can't really expect anyone to take you seriously when we know nothing about you except the few posts you've made. Have you experienced time in a jungle in New Guinea? If you have not then your argument is theoretical at best.

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## BH51

Well now hold up, BH....You can't just suddenly change diet without negative consequence...
You'll have to sterilize food & water and adjust your anatomy to new conditions...Unlike chimps,
who are accustom to ingesting raw foods, the bacteria and parasites within...and,....the Movie
starring Tom Hanks, was just a movie...I'm sure he was eating fire cooked cheeseburgers between
shoots...and that brings us back to health issues within original scenerio...imagine yourself trying
to survive when you're so sick you can't even walk..............................................  ........BH51

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## dolfan87

> What can happen if I don't have fire. Chimps didn't die without fire. What if I don't know how to make fire. Chimps eat raw meat, other monkeys, mammals, they are cannibals and beasts and they don't cook their meat. Eskimos eat raw fish. Why do you think that person who does not make fire is absolutely dead, again this has no sence. Example that you can't teach a wild child, like a syrian gazelle boy who had 10 years in the wilderness, imitating gazelles, eating raw plants, did not know to make fire. The risk of death of a wild child is determined by the animal. I have given examples of a way of living, and Tom Hanks in his castaway film practiced for years to make fire, and he was alive for years without having fire. So I think your thoughts are irrational.


BH- please don't come in here referencing Hollywood entertainment as sources for survival. Even the "survival" reality shows are 50-75% BUNK.

Many have already stated it, but try to begin eating things raw and see what happens to your body. One cubic inch of raw steak has over 1000 parasites in it. Fire kills those parasites, it also dries out clothing, and repels certain bugs.

You can come on here and post a question, but unless you have been there and done it, don't question those of us who have.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

OK BH here's a little experiment for you to try. For the next month eat *just* Chicken and fish(no "red meat" at all), for your meats. When a month has passed eat some beef. The sudden change in your diet will give you diarrhea. Oh and I'm talking about COOKED meat, not raw. In a true survival situation diarrhea can kill you just as surely as a bear can. Diarrhea will speed up dehydration, depleting your body of water. Or if you want to try it in another way, go drink water from a mud puddle. This is another good way to pick up nasty things to introduce to your intestines. Just do this here in "civilization" OK? That way you are close to medical treatment should you need it.

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## JPGreco

oh my god, this is too funny.

In fact, its to the point now that I can only make 2 assumptions.  One, I was told not to say anymore.  The second, you're a troll.  Either way, you should really stop now.

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## Rick

I didn't tell you not to say anything else. I just said direct it at the idea not the person. But it's really kinda hard, ain't it?

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## JPGreco

I was gonna reply to it earlier asking how do I tell someone that they lack the intelligence for the hypothetical situation to survive sans supplies without it being directed at them?  I was trying to respond to the idea....

my last post though, yeah, it was going to be directed AT him, hence my holding back... lol

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## BENESSE

BH is _so_ out of his depth, I find it unfair (as though he were deficient) and futile to engage him; unless one's just looking for some fun. JMO, of course. 
Carry on.

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## crashdive123

> OK BH here's a little experiment for you to try. For the next month eat *just* Chicken and fish(no "red meat" at all), for your meats. When a month has passed eat some beef. The sudden change in your diet will give you diarrhea. Oh and I'm talking about COOKED meat, not raw. In a true survival situation diarrhea can kill you just as surely as a bear can. Diarrhea will speed up dehydration, depleting your body of water. Or if you want to try it in another way, go drink water from a mud puddle. This is another good way to pick up nasty things to introduce to your intestines. Just do this here in "civilization" OK? That way you are close to medical treatment should you need it.


I did a similar experiment many, many times.  We quickly run out of fresh fruits and vegtables, along with milk on and extended Submarine patrol.  After the first two or three days, your fruit and veggies are either canned or dehydrated.  Your milk is powdered.  After several months of "nothing fresh" that first glass of real milk sure tastes good.  Have a second one and you might not make it to the head in time.  Same thing with fruit.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> I did a similar experiment many, many times.  We quickly run out of fresh fruits and vegtables, along with milk on and extended Submarine patrol.  After the first two or three days, your fruit and veggies are either canned or dehydrated.  Your milk is powdered.  After several months of "nothing fresh" that first glass of real milk sure tastes good.  Have a second one and you might not make it to the head in time.  Same thing with fruit.


I just don't think that some people realize what a sudden change to your diet will do to your system. (No offense to Vegetarians) But any sudden change to your diet will wreak havoc on your digestive system. I once tried the Vegetarian lifestyle for just one month. When I changed back to an Omnivorous diet it took almost as long for my digestive system to re-adapt.(Ironically I lost MORE weight when I changed back)This was especially worse after I had just ate. Even what we would think are "Minor" changes can debilitate you. Like you say about canned versus fresh, even if it is the same type of item. 

It is FAR easier to drop something from your diet than to add something "New", even if you have ate it before. Adding new things will cause intestinal problems that you won't soon forget. So don't think that you can all of a sudden add new things to your diet without a consequence. I LOVE eating Steak, but very rarely do I eat it. When I Do eat steak, even though I have ate hamburger and other "Red Meats" I ALWAYS develop a short lived intestinal problem, usually a day or so in duration. But That is WITH eating "red Meat" already. I'm sure if I dropped all "Red Meat" from my diet and then started eating it I would experience more serious problems.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

> What can happen if I don't have fire.  .


Ok, simply, in the scenario you rendered for PNG... YOU WILL DIE WITHOUT FIRE. 

I just looked it up, Tom Hanks (An *actor* in a *MOVIE*) took 9 days to learn 7 ways to make fire with native materials, NOT YEARS.  

Unless you know how to use natural ultra-violet light to purify food and water in the wild, especially a South Pacific Island, you will die without fire. 

You keep going OUTSIDE of your scenario, now you are talking about a boy that lived as a Gazelle for 10 years, that is Africa/Mideast/Persia. A whole different environment and eco system, although fire would help, there are other means to purify food and water in those land masses besides fire, although fire would be the most expedient and least waste of body energy.   

Staying within your scenario of PNG... REALLY you will need fire to survive anymore than ONE day, it is true, so just suck it up buttercup. It amazes me you cannot see that, or you are too stubborn to listen to people that have experience and know what they are talking about.  

I wish you well in your gaining knowledge in how REAL wilderness survival works around the world, until then, please, please, please be aware of your space and time and do NOT get lost.  

I am going to refrain from adding anymore comment to this thread, it is futile to argue with someone with no knowledge of survival in any shape or form, it is like arguing with a drunk, you just get *know*where.

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## hunter63

Well, boys....I thinking we are being played.........So my advice is still....BH, go for it and then tells us how it went.
Over and out.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

Hey Crash, US Navy - 1975 - 1991,  I was a Torpedoman for the first 6 years of my Navy stint (boot, A, C, E, sub, basic sur, basic demo and then finally Coronado Island time for 28 weeks), most of my Sub time was on SSBN - 608 - Ethan Allen (Polaris) or it's sub tender - US Proteus AS19. 7th Fleet, 15th Sub Squadren, Guam-Polaris Point and Holy Loch Scotland were our two home bases. The last 10 years of my stint was with Team 8 UDT, like a fool, I vol and passed BUDS (won) my grid & frog sticker and had to early out due to wounds rec in D-Storm in 91 with my team. Out as E7. Glad to meet another "Bubble-Head."......I refused to eat the eggs after 3 weeks down, was tired of chewing the egg pebbles of the dried eggs and I never was explained why they were so freakin GREEN. 

Sorry to go off topic.... figured I would use this thread for something productive since the thread is a FUBAR Ruse in the first place.  :Devil2:

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## BENESSE

> Well, boys....I thinking we are being played.........So my advice is still....BH, go for it and then tells us how it went.
> Over and out.


You are SO right H63...but there's something about BH that people find irresistible and they can't quite let go. Don't know what the point is of this continued enagaement but I'm not above spectator sports.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

Being played or not.... doesn't matter. We have too many that lurk and read. Some are really trying to learn something without joining into our little community. Someone has to refute this illogic. It is the only responsible thing to do IMO. Sometimes there are only 4 or 5 of we, the members, yet we have 40-50 that lurk.

EDIT: I just checked. Right now there are 8 members showing online, and 102 "guests", reading threads....sure some are spiders and such, but that is only a percentage.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

If you can't survive without fire having it won't save you.

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## Batch

> Hey Crash, US Navy - 1975 - 1991,  I was a Torpedoman for the first 6 years of my Navy stint (boot, A, C, E, sub, basic sur, basic demo and then finally Coronado Island time for 28 weeks), most of my Sub time was on SSBN - 608 - Ethan Allen (Polaris) or it's sub tender - US Proteus AS19. 7th Fleet, 15th Sub Squadren, Guam-Polaris Point and Holy Loch Scotland were our two home bases. The last 10 years of my stint was with Team 8 UDT, like a fool, I vol and passed BUDS (won) my grid & frog sticker and had to early out due to wounds rec in D-Storm in 91 with my team. Out as E7. Glad to meet another "Bubble-Head."......I refused to eat the eggs after 3 weeks down, was tired of chewing the egg pebbles of the dried eggs and I never was explained why they were so freakin GREEN. 
> 
> 
> Sorry to go off topic.... figured I would use this thread for something productive since the thread is a FUBAR Ruse in the first place.


I am not military. I did not serve. But, I have many friends that did. You were still UDT in 91? A designation that was dropped a decade earlier?

Here are pics you posted as being 20 years ago. that would be 1991. You don't look like a Navy Seal or even a seaman. I could be wrong... 

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## crashdive123

> Hey Crash, US Navy - 1975 - 1991,  I was a Torpedoman for the first 6 years of my Navy stint (boot, A, C, E, sub, basic sur, basic demo and then finally Coronado Island time for 28 weeks), most of my Sub time was on SSBN - 608 - Ethan Allen (Polaris) or it's sub tender - US Proteus AS19. 7th Fleet, 15th Sub Squadren, Guam-Polaris Point and Holy Loch Scotland were our two home bases. The last 10 years of my stint was with Team 8 UDT, like a fool, I vol and passed BUDS (won) my grid & frog sticker and had to early out due to wounds rec in D-Storm in 91 with my team. Out as E7. Glad to meet another "Bubble-Head."......I refused to eat the eggs after 3 weeks down, was tired of chewing the egg pebbles of the dried eggs and I never was explained why they were so freakin GREEN. 
> 
> Sorry to go off topic.... figured I would use this thread for something productive since the thread is a FUBAR Ruse in the first place.


I was doing patrols out of Guam around the same time.  USS Sam Houston SSBN 609.  Forward ET. Refits alongside Proteus.  We probably stumbled into each other over at Andy's.

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## martinhys

I've never heard that before but it makes perfect sense.

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## martinhys

What do you guys mean 'being played'? I just joined so I'm trying to get a feel for this. Sweet place to share experiences I see.

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## crashdive123

> I've never heard that before but it makes perfect sense.


Heard what?




> What do you guys mean 'being played'? I just joined so I'm trying to get a feel for this. Sweet place to share experiences I see.


It's when a person signs up, often using a proxy server (I'm sure you understand that term) to hide their identity and asks questions designed to disrupt the forum.  How about proving to the rest of us that you too are not "playing" anybody and stop by the Introduction section to tell us a bit about yourself.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

Crash: LOL Andys Hut, love it, wow did that bring back some long lost memories. I wonder if that is still there or even if Polaris Point is still there anymore? Been a long time since I have thought of that place, I sure downed my share of beverages there and yes, we sure breathed some of the same ocean air. The Proteus, is at Bremerton and being used as a birthing ship for the dock/ship workers there, almost totally gutted from what we knew it. The 41 (The Freedom 41) Polaris Subs are now all toasters and Volkswagens LOL. I do not think any survived being scrapped, if you know of one, please let me know, would love to visit it. Many of our old crews go to the various reunions down at Fox Bay Sub Base each year for both the Old Pro and the SSBN's.  

Batch: Yes, I was wounded Jan 22, 1991, honorably discharged Feb 23, 1991. From Feb to Sept of 91, I gained 67 pounds due to being a lazy arse and recovering from the wounds. That brought me to like 240-245 lbs. I lost most of it in 1995 when I started getting sick and then regained the weight back in 2002 when I was getting treated for Diabetes and Kidney failure steming from my former wounds and missing some body pieces parts. As for UDT, yes, most of us kept that designation through out our stints all the way up to our discharges. My DD214 & DD256n actually states Special Operations Assignment - Unit "G." Never ONCE did the US Gov't acknowledge me or Team 8 (Unit G) were SEAL's, we were always known as UDT or Special Operators/Operation Team. Even today with-in the circles, they are known as Froggies and not SEAL's from the orig designations of "Frogmen," in the 1950's and 1960's. I was never designated a "SEAL," therefore cannot claim myself as being a "SEAL." Today, team 8 now has the designation of SEAL Team 8. Actually, I was discharged with my Torpedoman designation....TM-7 with active duty stints with the "UNIT." 

The last pic of the Tippi was a guy named Groundhog, not me, the 2nd one with my father was at the shop I owned and was taken during the time I was role playing the mountain man stuff 91 - 95, have no clue the actual date the pic with dad was taken, it was just during those times of my life. The picture of Bill and I was taken in Oct 1991 after I gained the weight in June-July. 

BTW Batch, thanks for stealing my profile pics and trying to call me out here in public posts.....that one I will remember with out a doubt. I have nothing to hide, I just do not like flatlanders of zero military service calling out a former military person. I have the proof to back up what I say and I am not ashamed of my former military service, nor am I ashamed of my current health conditions, I received them both honorably.

Alaskan Survivalist: I disagree whole hardedly with your statement of  "If you can't survive without fire having it won't save you."  There are many I am sure frozen people in the past that truly wished they could have started a fire out in the wilderness. Having the knowledge and the ability to make fire will indeed save you or others lives in many of scenarios or situations, not just being frozen, but for sheer health reasons. I have never had to try to save myself or others w/o fire as I have always known how to make fire in the wilderness under many different conditions. Not having various skills will kill you and others. Maybe stated a different way, it could possibly be true, but stated the way you stated it, not at all true, and YES, I do get your gist of what you were trying to say.

I will stand by my statement, given the scenario the OP outlined and even changed many times, w/o fire, HE would die in a very short time. Change the scenario, yeah, maybe HE could survive w/o fire, depending on where and when but highly doubtful. 

Nice to wake up this morn to coffee and such lively discussion  :Smile:

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## Rick

OGL - Don't get too miffed. We've had some pretty good posers on here in the past so views get a little jaded when you've dealt with them.

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## crashdive123

> Crash: LOL Andys Hut, love it, wow did that bring back some long lost memories. I wonder if that is still there or even if Polaris Point is still there anymore? Been a long time since I have thought of that place, I sure downed my share of beverages there and yes, we sure breathed some of the same ocean air. The Proteus, is at Bremerton and being used as a birthing ship for the dock/ship workers there, almost totally gutted from what we knew it. The 41 (The Freedom 41) Polaris Subs are now all toasters and Volkswagens LOL. I do not think any survived being scrapped, if you know of one, please let me know, would love to visit it. Many of our old crews go to the various reunions down at Fox Bay Sub Base each year for both the Old Pro and the SSBN's.


Then you probably spent time at Club Yobo, Yakatoris (sp?) and Talafofo falls.  I went in with two other guys and bought a Guam Bomb for $25.  We parked it in deployed parking and gave the guys running the lot a couple of bottles of rum to charge the battery every month.  Below is my favorite picture of the USS Proteus.  If I remember correctly it was hanging in the chow line for the mess decks.

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## OhioGrizzLapp

I had a motorcycle when I was there, those roads were made out of coral and would get like greesed snot on a door knob.. My friend Mark bought one of those NO seat cars and used orange crates as the seats. To be honest, none of those names of places sound familure, it was either Andy's, the AFB En Club or at the GF's for me. When I was there, I had a GF in Agana and hardly ever ate at the pro chow deck. The only female in town I remember was Chewy and at the Navy Base was Mongo Lips LOLOL That is a cool pic. I do remember that some of the torps in the storages were MK 11 and 12's, steam op torps, early WWII and late WW1 that were/are still viable and able to shoot from current tubes. My bunk on the pro was 1 deck down and near the fantail. I also rem having to go to sea on the pro when a hurricane hit guam, I longed to be on my sub at that time. I have a ton of pics and super 8mm movies from Guam, they are truly buried somewhere. I will PM you later on this stuff... boring to others I am sure LOL

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## crashdive123

Yeah, if you had a girlfriend there, she probably wasn't going to let you go to Yobos (or Cheap Charlies, or any of the other dozen clups that featured scantily clad people).  One of my favorite Navy bars was the old Medicine Chest - the old morgue at the Naval Hospital.  Plenty of cold storage.

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## Batch

> BTW Batch, thanks for stealing my profile pics and trying to call me out here in public posts.....that one I will remember with out a doubt. I have nothing to hide, I just do not like flatlanders of zero military service calling out a former military person. I have the proof to back up what I say and I am not ashamed of my former military service, nor am I ashamed of my current health conditions, I received them both honorably.



As I said I could be wrong. I have had the honor to know several Navy SEALs over the years. Because of the discipline they had to have to achieve that designation, I have come to see certain characteristics in them in general. 

I have met many more people who make claim to be either Navy SEALs or Special Forces and who prove not to be. I recently had a guy claim to be a former Navy SEAL and he was talking to my buddy, a Marine, he gave his rank as Master Sergeant. Game over!!!

I have a buddy that grew up in the neighborhood that served in Desert Storm and had a confirmed kill. He insisted in claiming he was special forces even though we knew his rank through out and he never mentioned going through training for such. He told us once that he had to leave, he had just been called up. This was like 8 or 9 PM. The next day he came over and said he had gone to Iraq and performed a mission. I said you can't have even flown there and back. He said that they had commandeered the Concord!

You stated you were UDT and never designated SEAL. But, you went through BUDS. I was under the impression ALL UDT went through UDTR and ALL SEALs went through BUDS.

I did not steal anything from your profile. I remembered your having posted those photos in your Moccasin thread.

Stolen Valor should piss someone off a whole lot more than asking a couple of obvious questions. It is very common for fake SEALs to spend a lot of time reading and building a cover story. It is very hard to believe that someone with the mental toughness and physical conditioning to have completed BUDS could have become such a polar opposite of physical conditioning in such a short period of time.

BTW, I in no way implied that you should be ashamed of any military service. I hold no one in higher regard than those who have served. Nor, am I saying anything about your present health condition. I was merely stating it would be damned near impossible for a person of the physical conditioning of a Navy SEAL to gain 65lbs or what ever it was in 4 months. It would take a huge DAILY calorie intake.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

Fire like anything else you have is a handicap if you don't know how to use it and the more reliant one is on it the more handicaped they will be. Fire is oversold sold for survival. If you need it for warmth are you going to stand by the fire all the time? The answer is yes and I have been out with too many that can't be pryed from it to do anything else. It's the same with sleeping bags and I have had to drag people bag and all into mudholes to get them out of the sack! When I hear you are going to DIE without it I am reminded of everyone of those useless #%$@'s.

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## Winter

> . It is very hard to believe that someone with the mental toughness and physical conditioning to have completed BUDS could have become such a polar opposite of physical conditioning in such a short period of time.
> 
>  It would take a huge DAILY calorie intake.


Suddenly this thread has some importance. Hahaha

Batch, fwiw, I was consuming 6000 calories a day in OSUT and burning it all and then some. As soon as I went to Airborne School I started gaining weight. By the end of those 3 weeks I must have gained ten lbs. I got back home in July and by mid September I was up to 178. I went from 154 lbs to 178 in just over 2 months and I was not bedridden.

Just info.

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## JPGreco

> Suddenly this thread has some importance. Hahaha
> 
> Batch, fwiw, I was consuming 6000 calories a day in OSUT and burning it all and then some. As soon as I went to Airborne School I started gaining weight. By the end of those 3 weeks I must have gained ten lbs. I got back home in July and by mid September I was up to 178. I went from 154 lbs to 178 in just over 2 months and I was not bedridden.
> 
> Just info.


One of my friends said that was the grossest part of BUDS.  That you had to eat that much food if you wanted to even have a chance of making it.  He was telling us how he was just shoveling food into his mouth.  Train, sleep, eat like a pig.

And no, I'm not military, but I do have friends who actually are special forces, and I would be pissed that someone would lie about it, I just don't know how to discern a lie from ranks and military terms unfortunately.
If I recall correctly, one is a SEAL, one is a Ranger Medic, and one is a Ranger.

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## Basic Human

To cook or not to cook fish depends on the quality of water. Except cooking fish, what could I else use it for? I don't know any other usage of fire, that without fire your dead. I have searched sites and they say vegan is who eats fish and plants, I know what I heard. I don't know if your right.

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## BENESSE

Vegan is plants ONLY. No fish, no eggs, no cheese, no milk, _nothing_ derived from an animal.
I am a vegetarian--so no animals, just seafood.

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## Basic Human

Corals are animals? How can a vegetarian eat fish and seafood, your paradoxal.

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## BENESSE

Corals are crustaceans. Still...the term is off, you're right. But that's where it stands now.

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## crashdive123

I think we are wasting our time trying to have a meaningful conversation with BH.  I applaud the efforts though.

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## Basic Human

If you say humans can't survive without tools and fire your acting like your against nature but not a part of it. So, you want to harm nature anywhere you go? Fire takes woods, shelter takes woods, traps take rocks, woods, plants, everything takes something. That's why the nature is destroyed today, because you did not figure other way to survive in wilderness than to exploatate/manipulate nature. If there is no other way to protect from cold than to wear clothes I approve that it's needed. If there is no other way to make food safe than cooking it I approve that. If I would die if I don't make fire and there is no other way to survive I approve that. Do you think there's other way? How can you know how much do I know? You can't judge a person who you don't know. And how can I know how much you know? How can you tell Im young when you don't know my age? If you are expert why don't you look on this scenario alternative.

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## Basic Human

Corals are crustaceans, don't make me laugh. They are among the most primitive beings on the planet. Corals are like plants. Crustaceans are far ahead and have brain, have a complex body, eyes that corals don't.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> If you say humans can't survive without tools and fire your acting like your against nature but not a part of it. So, you want to harm nature anywhere you go? Fire takes woods, shelter takes woods, traps take rocks, woods, plants, everything takes something. That's why the nature is destroyed today, because you did not figure other way to survive in wilderness than to exploatate/manipulate nature. If there is no other way to protect from cold than to wear clothes I approve that it's needed. If there is no other way to make food safe than cooking it I approve that. If I would die if I don't make fire and there is no other way to survive I approve that. Do you think there's other way? How can you know how much do I know? You can't judge a person who you don't know. And how can I know how much you know? How can you tell Im young when you don't know my age? If you are expert why don't you look on this scenario alternative.


The human population was more or less stable and in sustainable balance until the industrial age and oil. Your theorizing has no sound basis in fact and more some kind of misplaced morality.

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## JPGreco

seriously, someone just ban him already

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## BENESSE

> * How can you know how much do I know? You can't judge a person who you don't know.* And how can I know how much you know? How can you tell Im young when you don't know my age? If you are expert why don't you look on this scenario alternative.


That's true. But you haven't told us ANYthing about yourself so that we have an idea of who you are. For example: Where you live, what you do, how old you are, what your background is, etc.
If you don't want to share ANY information about yourself the way the rest of us have, then we'll have to make assumptions about you based on what you said. And what you said (without any support links) makes no sense to any of us. 
If you want to play by your own rules, then you'll have to play by yourself. Understand?

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## Rick

BH - You need to think about this. Every single person, every one, that has responded to you has told you that you are wrong. Not one person has agreed with you. And yet, you continue to post the same dribble. So, either, 1. You're just really young, 2. You're just really dense or 3. You're just trolling and trying to cause a disruption. The latter will get you banned. 

Now, before you continue on with your ramblings I want you to actually research your next post and post supporting documentation for it. If you don't, I'll just delete it for not following instructions. You're going to learn the right way if we have to hold you down and force feed you. By the way, I may have to change your name to BS if you keep this up.

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## Pocomoonskyeyes3

> If you say humans can't survive without tools and fire your acting like your against nature but not a part of it. So, you want to harm nature anywhere you go? Fire takes woods, shelter takes woods, traps take rocks, woods, plants, everything takes something. That's why the nature is destroyed today, because you did not figure other way to survive in wilderness than to exploatate/manipulate nature. If there is no other way to protect from cold than to wear clothes I approve that it's needed. If there is no other way to make food safe than cooking it I approve that. If I would die if I don't make fire and there is no other way to survive I approve that. Do you think there's other way? How can you know how much do I know? You can't judge a person who you don't know. And how can I know how much you know? How can you tell Im young when you don't know my age? If you are expert why don't you look on this scenario alternative.


OK I'll give you a little slack. True, there have been the odd exceptions of "Wild Children". However without exception they were all Supported by a pack, herd, or other animal community..... NOT one did as you are suggesting in YOUR scenario... Not a single one. I, personally have given you links that show how man has used fire and tools for thousands and thousands of years. Fire will kill parasites and bacteria that can / will kill you. You COULD use a solar evaporation still  to purify water, But this would violate your "No Tool" Clause. Still there are organisms that might not hurt fish, but could cause illness in humans. This could put you in a very serious life threatening situation. I seriously hope you never have to use your suggested methods, Because without tools and/or fire you are most likely gonna' die.

Now Will you kindly stop spreading false ideas & beliefs?

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## crashdive123

Oh, believe me.....as Rick said - he is done spreading false information and *B*ovine *S*queeze.

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## Galong

Priority #1 in your scenario is getting a sufficient amount of water to remain functional. You'll need a minimum of about three liters of water per day and that's if you're not overly active. Both vines and bamboo are great sources of drinkable water. At least in Thailand, where I live, if you cut a vine and water (instead of milky sap) comes out, you can drink it. Cut the top first, then the bottom. Hold it up and the water will flow. When you want it to stop, hold the vine horizontally. When you want it to start flowing again, simply cut the end and hold it up again.

Bamboo, especially during rainy seasons, hold a lot of water. This water is drinkable right out of the plant too.  Tap on the larger-sized bamboo sections and you'll learn how to tell which sections contain water and which are dry.

Finally, you can get a good amount of water out of a banana tree. One way to get it is to (unfortunately) cut the tree down near the base. Scoop out a bowl shape and wait a bit. It'll fill up with drinkable fluids. This fluid also contains some valuable electrolytes.

If you can't find water is these plant forms, you can boil water in bamboo...no need for a pot. You can make a carrying container from bamboo too, of course.

I wouldn't worry as much about food as water. You can live a long time without food. Raw fish still carries the risk of microbial problems. Even fish out of seemingly extremely pure water can carry problematic microbes.

Malaria and Dengue Fever take about seven to ten days to incubate. Again, not the most pressing concern. Hopefully you'll be out of the jungle by then.

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## Rick

Very good post, Galong. I'm always interesting in seeing some other resources that I have no knowledge of. I love learning. Wouldn't green coconuts also provide you a source of water?

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## Beans

FWIW in 1962 2/7 USMC put us in the field for 7 days with 7 ounces of uncooked rice, 12 gum drops, 6 ounces of cheese and 6 ounces of pepperoni.  During those 7 days we ran infantry tactics all over Casey Spring in Camp Pendleton Ca. Water was provided. We had means to build an individual fire and cooked the rice in our canteen cups.  IIRC the average weight loss was over 20 lbs and this was from physically fit grunts not office personnel.

My SIL was a chief at the USN SEAR school in CA in the early 2000's I toured the facility and was glad and impressed. Glad I didn't have to train there and impressed at the depth of the training.

AS far as a weight gain; I was medically retired in 1971 because of the loss of several internal organs. AS a grunt I was used to eating large amounts of food as we were burning it up on any normal day. I didn't have the sense to change my eating habits and gained over 45 lbs within 4 months of being released from the Great Lakes Hospital. I was sitting on my butt going to college, thanks to the US Government and "chapter 31". Drinking beer with the other military personnel, boot strappers, discharger's and medically retired students, attending the same collage, and packing on the pounds.  :munchies: :

AS for *Posers* someone who hasn't "been there done that" may have a problem seperating truth from fiction, but if you have the *"T" shirt*, it doen't take much to seperate the wheat from the chaft.

Semper Fi

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## Galong

> Very good post, Galong. I'm always interesting in seeing some other resources that I have no knowledge of. I love learning. Wouldn't green coconuts also provide you a source of water?


Hey Rick,

Yes, green coconuts are awesome in many ways. I should have mentioned them as I'm sitting here looking at three coconut trees in my yard!

There is a surprising amount of fluid in them and the soft meat is easy to dig out with a make-shift spoon made directly from the green husk.

Some claim that drinking too much green coconut water give them diarrhea. I've never experienced that.

Coconut meat is really high in fats, a valuable commodity when in a survival situation. If water/hydration was a issue, I'd go for coconut meat way before considering a protein... which takes a lot of water to digest and supplies a limited amount of energy. The ROI, in other words, isn't really that positive.

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## Galong

> Corals are crustaceans, don't make me laugh. They are among the most primitive beings on the planet. Corals are like plants. Crustaceans are far ahead and have brain, have a complex body, eyes that corals don't.


Not wanting to make you laugh, but coral is really _like a plant_ as it's taxonomically classified in the Animalia kingdom and the Cnidaria phylum. I would hesitate to call them 'among the most primitive' as there are massive categories of living things that are a lot more basic in their design and behavior.  I hope you didn't laugh. :-)

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## Rick

I have read that coconut "water" (not the milk) is so perfectly balanced from a human perspective that it can be used as a short term IV instead of plasma.

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## Galong

> I have read that coconut "water" (not the milk) is so perfectly balanced from a human perspective that it can be used as a short term IV instead of plasma.


I wouldn't doubt the accuracy of that statement.  I just Googled it and found http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10674546 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_water  So thanks... I just learned something!

I would add that a fallen coconut that has sprouted is at its most nutritional stage in life. Crack one of these open and you'll find a huge chunk of meat that'll certainly help fill that empty gut feeling.  

Sprouts of any kinds are the same story. It's the time in a plant's life when it's most nutritious.

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## Rick

If I remember correctly the ph is balanced and the water is sterile. I had read that the Japanese had used it during WWII since they didn't have access to plasma after their supplies were cut off on some of the islands. A good way to rehydrate via IV as well if the patient is unconscious and you don't have access to traditional IVs like saline.

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## Galong

I wonder if this is the only thing that possesses such properties. It'd be interesting to find out. I'll start looking around.

BTW, love your avatar!

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## Mad Cow

I know this an old thread, but I would recommend that the guy read some accounts of Japanese, British, and American soldiers that fought there during WW-2. That place is no joke. Maney of those men were killed by the environment and illness.

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