# General > General Chat >  New study on vegans and vegetarians.

## letslearntogether47

They're sickly and weak.
No surprise here. :Whistling: 

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/...n-meat-eaters/

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## Rick

I should be fit as the proverbial fiddle then.

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## Power Giant

Sickly, maybe. Weak, I don't think so. Here is a small list of prominent vegetarian athletes:

Bill Walton- NBA Hall of Famer
Edwin Moses- 2 Olympic gold medals
Carl Lewis- 10 Olympic medals
Robert Parrish- NBA Hall of Famer
Mike Tyson- Former Heavyweight Boxing champion
Joe Namath- NFL Hall of Famer

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## hunter63

I'm sure if you look hard enough....maybe not even that hard...you can find "studies" that will support
 any thing you want.
To make a general statement is just silly.......

Moderation in all things, .....

I support the bacon and beer diet......

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## point man

I agree with hunter63.

I know a few veg heads, and as weird as they are to me, they are healthy folks, or at least seem to be

My sister actually was a veg head for 8 years until she saw the light (porter house), but anyway in the beginning she had a very hard time getting all the proper nutrients she needed and did become ill in process. She worked through it and was successful at it. She eventually gave up and went back to some tasty past times, ie.. Critters. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## randyt

I find it amusing how opinions and studies change over time. Just the other day on the news they reported salt intake and it's effect on health. For years I've heard cut back on salt and now a study says it doesn't matter. It seems we are going back to the diet of our grandparents.

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## letslearntogether47

"Are you really going to eat that dead animal?" :hammer: 
Just sick of hearing their whineassidness.

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## letslearntogether47

> Sickly, maybe. Weak, I don't think so. Here is a small list of prominent vegetarian athletes:
> 
> Bill Walton- NBA Hall of Famer
> Edwin Moses- 2 Olympic gold medals
> Carl Lewis- 10 Olympic medals
> Robert Parrish- NBA Hall of Famer
> Mike Tyson- Former Heavyweight Boxing champion
> Joe Namath- NFL Hall of Famer


Yes,they most likely became veggies after doing those feats.
Joe sure liked his Fur coat.  :Wink:

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## WolfVanZandt

That's "whineassity".....no, wait, maybe you're right but shouldn't it be "whineacidity"? hmmmmmm.....okay, let me go look this up............

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## randyt

I wonder it Arthur Saxon or Eugen Sandow were vegetarians?

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## hunter63

I guess I find it odd that vegans, or vegetarians see fit and make a big deal out of it to anyone close or in earshot.
So what....give your self a dog biscuit......I don't care"
To those that don't,.... thank you....Do what you want.

So on that note, for those that do.....we all should announce loudly in restaurants...... "I'm a carnivore, ...Deal with it.

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## Power Giant

I always found it interesting that our closest animal "friends" (cats and dogs) are carnivores. Birds of a feather, and all...

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## crashdive123

People should eat what they want.  It's all about choices.

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## Winnie

> "Are you really going to eat that dead animal?"
> Just sick of hearing their whineassidness.


Simple answer to that question. Cut a nice big chunk of the meat on your plate, stuff it in your mouth, chew a couple times, look straight at them and whilst chewing put on your bestest smile and say "YUP!" 
One of two things happens: They either never go out for dinner with you again or run to the restroom, if you're really good, they do both. Oh and it works on complete strangers too.

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## 2dumb2kwit

I think it's pretty simple to figure out. All you have to do, is think about our teeth. We have flat ones and some pointy ones. We are omnivores. (That means we are meant to eat plants and animals, Rick.) It's up to each person to decide if we are this way because God created us that way, or mother nature made us this way, or we accidentally evolved into this. Whichever you believe, do you really think you're smarter than God/mother nature/evolution?

 I just accept it. I'm an omnivore. Pass the meat and taters, please. And yes....bacon would be good for breakfast.

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## WolfVanZandt

A lot of vegics say that our front teeth being straight indicate that we should be vegetarians. That's sorta dumb because most herbivores have grinders up front. Those flat teeth are a lot better as knifes than grinders. Honestly, though, why do we need this study. I've read in textbooks on nutrition all my life that there are nutrients that we need that neither we nor plants produce. If we're going to subsist on a vegetarian diet, in order to be healthy, we would have to supplement our diets with artificial nutrients.

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## Power Giant

Yeah, I think the tooth argument doesn't always hold water. Look at a gorilla's teeth: giant canines, yet they are completely vegetarian.

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## Power Giant

87720807_XS.jpg 

thought I'd include this pic for giggles

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## 2dumb2kwit

> a recent study found DNA from monkeys and small forest antelopes called duikers in the feces of wild African western lowland gorillas in Loango National Park in Gabon.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...als-feces-dna/





> "Loving" Bonobos Seen Killing, Eating Other Primates


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-missions.html

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## Camp10

Horseradish is a veggie, right? I wonder if piling it on my steak is because deep down I'm vegan.. Hmmm.

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## Power Giant

> Horseradish is a veggie, right? I wonder if piling it on my steak is because deep down I'm vegan.. Hmmm.


I think it means that you don't like the taste of steak.

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## Power Giant

[QUOTE=2dumb2kwit;428774]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...als-feces-dna/

I read the article- thanks for posting. It reveals that it is inconclusive that gorillas eat meat.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...als-feces-dna/
> 
> I read the article- thanks for posting. It reveals that it is inconclusive that gorillas eat meat.


 From what I have read, it's not likely that gorillas eat meat like we think of eating meat. It appears that they get a lot of the protein that they need from ant's, termites, etc.. A lot of which simple gets eaten with all the leaves that they eat. (About 75 pounds a day.) They spend many hours of the day eating.

 It has been noted, that in captivity, they will eat meat. My guess is that they don't get enough of the protein that they need from the leaves that they are fed.

 I wonder if they were more omnivorous in the distant past, then as they spent more and more of their time eating leaves, to the point that they were getting the needed protein from them, (and the insects on them) that over time evolved into more of an herbivore. Hmmm.  :Confused1:

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## 2dumb2kwit

...of coarse, if any of them got really hungry and ate one of those little pigs running around the jungle, then that would change everything. You know....once you've had bacon, you're a carnivore for life! Some of those gorillas may have done this, thus reverting back to their old pointy teeth instincts. :Whistling:

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## BENESSE

You've heard how there are no atheists in the foxhole? Well, there are no bacon lovers in the ICU. Bill Clinton turned vegan after his quadruple and many others in that position "saw the light" as well and learned to live with it. Literally.  
Hey, whatever works for you, is fine with me. I've learned things the hard way, and maybe that's the only way...otherwise it's not real. All I can offer is this: Do what _you_ know is right before you are forced to do it. By then, you might have reached a point of no return.

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## Camp10

No bacon lovers in ICU? Cool... I'm eating more, I don't ever want to end up there!  Lol! Seriously though, I don't care what anyone prefers as long as they don't get high and mighty. When my sister became vegan, she was like a newly quit smoker... All of us meat eaters were killing our selves and she was going to save us from our poor choices.

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## crashdive123

> No bacon lovers in ICU? Cool... I'm eating more, I don't ever want to end up there!  Lol! Seriously though, I don't care what anyone prefers as long as they don't get high and mighty. When my sister became vegan, she was like a newly quit smoker... All of us meat eaters were killing our selves and she was going to save us from our poor choices.


Good to see you back around.  You've been missed.

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## Camp10

If Ken can do it, so can I! I got a new phone which doesn't suck quite as bad with this format.. when I'm home, the computer is never on (to busy)!

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## BENESSE

Like I said...whatever works for you, as long as it works. 
As in anything in life, people who "see the light" generally want to spread the word and save others from making mistakes. That can be off putting when all's well. When it's not, you wish you were smarter.

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## WolfVanZandt

Unfortunately, they've found that cholesterol isn't linked to heart attacks. It doesn't matter how much fat and cholesterol you eat, it's not going to increase your chances of having a heart attack:

http://chriskresser.com/cholesterol-...-heart-disease

Strangely, I heard this first last year on NPR. 

This is the problem with the recent research on cholesterol and Altzheimer's:

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-12228...-nonsense.html

Unfortunately, the brain needs cholesterol to function properly and by cutting it out of the diet so strictly, we may actually be doing damage to our brains:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ing-your-brain

A big problem is that doctors are very conservative and tend to ignore the research. They're going to  be prescribing statins long after the research community has determined that such low levels of cholesterol are bad for us. By the way, the normal levels for blood pressure and cholesterol have changed...again. There are still doctors treating ulcers (caused by H. pylori bacteria) with bland diets. They will be prescribing statins and low cholesterol diets long after it is nailed down that they don't work.

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## WildBuna

> I guess I find it odd that vegans, or vegetarians see fit and make a big deal out of it to anyone close or in earshot.
> So what....give your self a dog biscuit......I don't care"
> To those that don't,.... thank you....Do what you want.
> 
> So on that note, for those that do.....we all should announce loudly in restaurants...... "I'm a carnivore, ...Deal with it.


I find it interesting that meat eaters having a go at vegetarians always go on about the noise vegetarians make about it. This whole thread is based on having a go at vegetarians are there any having a go at meat eaters? I have been a vegetarian for over 30 years and am fit and healthy and don't talk about it much at all. Not unless someone raises it with me. I know that I can bring as many articles as you like saying the opposite to the one above so I won't bother. There are many many fit and healthy vegetarians but that is not why I am one. I am one because it takes a lot less energy and area to feed a vegetarian. To be a meat eater now, with the current rate of environmental destruction, could be considered by some to be selfish. If you want to keep having areas to survive and wildlife to survive we need to think the way we eat on a daily basis. Maybe that is why some vegetarians make noise about it? Maybe they care about nature? I gave up thinking people actually care about anything but themselves many years ago hence I don't usually bother to comment. But I would have thought survivalists would understand a take what you need approach. I would also have thought that you would understand that when people come to a new realisation about the world they talk about it a lot...perhaps like some do when they start hunting? I was raised hunting my own food by a hunter. Later I was taught by others we met  more on how to track and what plants were good. It was that upbringing that lead to a deep understanding and respect for nature. One of the many reasons I am now a vegetarian. 

Having said that I would be interested in exchanging notes on survival approaches and the use of plants with anyone who has an interest and I won't hold what you eat against you if you treat me with the same respect.

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## BENESSE

@WildBuna
I am a vegetarian, too. Not evangelical about it unless someone wants to challenge me. (then I'll see you outside  :Whistling: )
As I said before in this thread, people will do what they want to do and find support for it so engaging in a peeing match is pretty futile and leads to bad feelings all around; minds are almost never changed so why even go there? I do my thing and don't make a big deal out of it. I can always find something I can eat no matter where in the world I go or whose house or restaurant I visit. I don't believe in making people feel bad about their choices same way I don't want them making me feel bad about mine. Those who do, just want to provoke and they are the last ones who can be rational about it.

People who ultimately make the switch do so because something happens in their lives to make them think. It could be health or it could be an animal that tugs at their heart and makes them realize there's more to it than being killed for food that's not necessary to stay alive, much less be healthy. 

Comes down to let's agree to disagree, nothing more.

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## Rick

@Wildbuna - Don't take us too seriously. No one is putting down vegans. Just having fun. We do that a lot on a lot of subjects. Don't we, B?

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## crashdive123

While the views on eating and lifestyle choices are as varied as there are people, let me head this one off at the pass.....Keep the responses civil :3:  (I know how us meat eaters can be) and light. :hugs:  Everybody will decide what is best for them and act accordingly.  With some it may take and "awakening" to figure out what is best for them.

As David Carradine once was told.......choose wisely grasshopper. :Thumbup1:

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## BENESSE

> @Wildbuna - Don't take us too seriously. No one is putting down vegans. Just having fun. We do that a lot on a lot of subjects. Don't we, B?


Yeah, we like to have fun _especially_ when we disagree. Preaching to the choir only goes so far and from time to time one needs a little action to get the blood pressure up.  :Taz: 

If you approach it like a good sparring game after which you shake hands and go out for a drink, it could be rewarding...if you take it personally and get nasty about it, it's the end of conversation and no one likes that.

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## hunter63

> Yeah, we like to have fun _especially_ when we disagree. Preaching to the choir only goes so far and from time to time one needs a little action to get the blood pressure up. 
> 
> If you approach it like a good sparring game after which you shake hands and go out for a drink, it could be rewarding...if you take it personally and get nasty about it, it's the end of conversation and no one likes that.


I have to agree "B"....and to be quoted in a 2 year old thread, just kinda of made me laugh.....on post number "2" no less....

Lets go have that drink.....LOL

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## Wildthang

I have known several ladies that are vegans, but will tell you that they actually like meat. They feel so sorry for the animals, they eat veggies to simply avoid the animals death in order for them to eat!

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## WolfVanZandt

There are quite a few good reasons to be vegetarian. I know a Therian who doesn't eat meat because she is so disgusted by modern meat production techniques. 

One of the problems with vegetarianism is that it requires considerable planning to make sure you get all the nutrients you need, like essential amino acids; so I would also be interested in seeing how a person would handle that in a survival situation. If it ever happens, I may have some vegetarians to be concerned about.

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## Wildthang

> There are quite a few good reasons to be vegetarian. I know a Therian who doesn't eat meat because she is so disgusted by modern meat production techniques. 
> 
> One of the problems with vegetarianism is that it requires considerable planning to make sure you get all the nutrients you need, like essential amino acids; so I would also be interested in seeing how a person would handle that in a survival situation. If it ever happens, I may have some vegetarians to be concerned about.


Wolf, I think if you feed them both beans and rice, they will get both of the essential amino acids!
And feed them all of this stuff.........LOL


Sources Of Essential Amino Acid (Food And Vegetables)
•Isolucine: seeds and soya beans, egg, meat, fish, lentils, almonds and cashewnuts.
•Lucine: fish, pulses, lentils.
•Lysine: potatoes, yeast, beans, meat, soy products, cheese, fish, eggs.
•Methionine: yogurt, lentils, meat, beans, dairy products, eggs, onion, garlic, fish.
•Phenylalanine: sesame seeds, tahini, nuts and beans, almonds, soya products, cheese.
•Thrionine: salmons, sardines, tuna fish, brown rice, beef, soy, liver, peanuts.

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## hunter63

> Wolf, I think if you feed them both beans and rice, they will get both of the essential amino acids!
> And feed them all of this stuff.........LOL
> 
> 
> Sources Of Essential Amino Acid (Food And Vegetables)
> •Isolucine: seeds and soya beans, egg, meat, fish, lentils, almonds and cashewnuts.
> •Lucine: fish, pulses, lentils.
> •Lysine: potatoes, yeast, beans, meat, soy products, cheese, fish, eggs.
> •Methionine: yogurt, lentils, meat, beans, dairy products, eggs, onion, garlic, fish.
> ...


Looks like a lot of fish and meat on that list.

Now add in  foods to avoid for gout.....
Red meat, organ meats, sea food, green veggies, nuts, lentils, dairy, cheese, liquor, beer, wine.......

Pretty much leaves only Snickers Bars, oat meal, water.....

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## Rick

No coffee, no bacon, no Twinkies, no thanks.

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## WildBuna

Sweet! Nice meeting you all! I normally wouldn't have commented it was just bad luck that was the first post I opened. Plus I was inside because I had just taken a good slice out of my finger making a fire drill. I set myself a challenge to light a fire a different way each week for as long as I can think of new ways to start a fire! Thought I would start with one I already knew...yes my partner is still laughing!  :Smile:

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## crashdive123

It should be noted that 100% of the people who eat carrots either have died, or will die.........therefore eating carrots must cause death.

Just an example of my/our oft times warped sense of humor.

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## BENESSE

> *It should be noted that 100% of the people who eat carrots either have died*, or will die.........therefore eating carrots must cause death.
> 
> Just an example of my/our oft times warped sense of humor.



Too much sugar. That's why I switched to Brussels sprouts.  :Smile:  
Now don't tell me that people who eat Brussels sprouts die, too.

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## Rick

Brussels Sprouts!?!?!?.......

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## hunter63

> Sweet! Nice meeting you all! I normally wouldn't have commented it was just bad luck that was the first post I opened. Plus I was inside because I had just taken a good slice out of my finger making a fire drill. I set myself a challenge to light a fire a different way each week for as long as I can think of new ways to start a fire! Thought I would start with one I already knew...yes my partner is still laughing!


As for being a fire fan......Just a note.

When you get to the home made "penny stove", using "Heet" as fuel....that the flame is almost invisible when burning.

This is important to know as there really isn't enough fuel in them to do anything real useful, like fry bacon.
Adding fuel, in process, will set the "fleece" on your shirt on fire....is impressive, embarrassing, resulting in your address being on the FD "Hot List".....and endless kidding for other forum members.

Just a helpful hint......

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## BENESSE

> Brussels Sprouts!?!?!?.......
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


The beauty of eating something you hate is you don't eat as much. Good for you and you don't get fat. Win/win, if you ax me. (which I'm sure you'd like to :Sneaky2:  )

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## Rick

> Adding fuel, in process, will set the "fleece" on your shirt on fire....is impressive, embarrassing, resulting in your address being on the FD "Hot List".....and endless kidding for other forum members.




And might I add is most beautiful at night when seen from another campground. 

Yeah, I got your ax sister. It's in that other thread.

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## kyratshooter

I am still trying to figure out why anyone would use Bill Clinton as an example of someone they would want to turn vegan so they would live longer!  

I wonder if he also stopped the cigars?

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## crashdive123

> I am still trying to figure out why anyone would use Bill Clinton as an example of someone they would want to turn vegan so they would live longer!  
> 
> I wonder if he also stopped the cigars?


I think the poster must have been confused.  Stories of Bill turning toward vegan.......well, meet Vegan.

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## kyratshooter

I have reached to point where if I make another comment about eating Vegan I will be banned from the forum.

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## hunter63

> I have reached to point where if I make another comment about eating Vegan I will be banned from the forum.


Kyrat........That's eating a vegan diet....NOT eating Vegans.......LOL

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## kyratshooter

Oh, sorry!

I keep getting the whole grazer/predator thing mixed up as well as confusing the various types of predators lurking among us.

'Scuse me, I have to take the pork chops out of the freezer.

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## WolfVanZandt

Actually, I love Brussel sprouts, but I'm pretty sure a vegetarian wouldn't condone how I eat them.

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## BENESSE

> Actually, I love Brussel sprouts, but I'm pretty sure a vegetarian wouldn't condone how I eat them.


The important thing is that you eat them. I condone eating veggies in whatever manner floats your boat.

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## BENESSE

> I am still trying to figure out why anyone would use Bill Clinton as an example of someone they would want to turn vegan so they would live longer!


Good point. However, he is married to Hillary so that cancels going vegan.

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## hunter63

> Good point. However, he is married to Hillary so that cancels going vegan.


I thinking that's what he meant.....LOL....

Put me out of my misery .....Bacon samishes all around......

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## Rick

> I condone eating veggies in whatever manner floats your boat.




We had a boat once upon a time. I think it was a veggie that forgot to tie it up and it floated away. My least worst knife was on that boat.

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## kyratshooter

I just ate my ration of two cups of butter peas.

I then washed them down with an 8oz pork chop smothered in gravy!

Oddly enough, my cholesterol is inside accepted levels and has been ever since the heart attack back in '04.

They told me it was not cholesterol that did me in, it was the smoking.

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## hunter63

> I just ate my ration of two cups of butter peas.
> 
> I then washed them down with an 8oz pork chop smothered in gravy!
> 
> Oddly enough, my cholesterol is inside accepted levels and has been ever since the heart attack back in '04.
> 
> They told me it was not cholesterol that did me in, it was the smoking.


Same here....Just had my "Wellness check up" today....thinking all great numbers, Goody, Goody,......Then the truck started running rough on the way home....It's going for it's check up Thursday. 

Always something......

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## Rick

Ain't it the truth, brother. Ain't it the truth. If you want to hear God laugh just tell him your plans.

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## WildBuna

:Lol:  Thanks for that hint! There is no doubt I'll need it!

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## WildBuna

What do you call a militant vegan? 
Lactose intolerant.

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## crashdive123

So, for the vegetarians and vegans among us.....if you start eating meat does that mean you have lost your veginity?

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## Rick

> What do you call a militant vegan? 
> Lactose intolerant.




That makes me sick. (get it? lactose intolerant? makes me sick? I slay myself)

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## crashdive123

> That makes me sick. (get it? lactose intolerant? makes me sick? I slay myself)[/COLOR]


Boy oh boy....you're milking that joke for all its worth.

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## Rick

I guess the humor evaporated. I should have condensed it a bit more. But let's face it, we often just skim the surface on these kinds of jokes.

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## hunter63

Original definition of vegan......Bad hunter.

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## crashdive123

> I guess the humor evaporated. I should have condensed it a bit more. But let's face it, we often just skim the surface on these kinds of jokes.


Cheese louise, some of these jokes just kind of sour and make me want to curdle up in the corner.

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## Rick

I see what you did there.

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## WildBuna

You guys crack me up! But we really have to stop meating like this.

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