# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Time for a bribe

## finallyME

My 13 year old 7th grader is having motivation problems.  He doesn't want to do anything with school, and even after I force him to do his homework, he forgets to turn it in.  He failed 2 classes last semester and might have to retake them in 8th grade if he wants to go on to high school.  Despite my best efforts, I want to strangle him.  So, yesterday we went down to the farm store and looked at shotguns.  The deal is, B's in all classes along with no bad citizen marks.  The farm store had a Rossi 20 ga, .22lr combo for under $200 (barely) and some 20 ga pumps between the $200-$300 range.  I think they are Rossi dealers, so I can problem special request one, and they can order it without much hassle.  I think a 20 ga/ .223 combo would be better for him.  Of course, if he wants a pump, we will go for that instead.  I want to keep it as close to $200 as possible.  He seemed really excited, lets see if it works.

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## BENESSE

If that works, who would I be to quibble with success? But it won't last as bribes seldom do.
In general I'd find broader ways to motivate him to do well; after all, he needs to understand in real terms the advantages good education provides which translates into better jobs which would ultimately allow him to buy whatever the heck he wants.

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## Goose

My son struggles with the same issue, what works is taking away the things he enjoys, like video games, youtube channel, etc.  Not only do we typically see his grades improve, but he also gets outside more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

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## madmax

While I do agree with Benesse about the broader long term solution, sometimes you just beat your head against the wall with teenagers.  But maybe you can build on success.  My dad bribed me in grade school with a huge tacklebox filled with all kinds of goodies.  I got all A's save a B in gym.  I got the box.  While my grades dropped a little, I had a taste of success and carried on well.  My brother was a solid C/D student but an outstanding athlete.  He landing on the upright pole vaulting in college and put it through his armpit and out the shoulder,  End of decathlon career.  He immersed himself in studies and earned a phd.  Ya never know what will trigger motivation.

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## hunter63

My parents didn't have much of a problem with me.....for some reason the motivation was always those in the words.
"Do you want to paint the fences?.... or own the fences"?
You can do anything you want if you work for it...Good grades makes it easier.

But teens can make for trying times....

With that kind of bribe...at least it's something that may help with a better bond between both of you.
Good luck.

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## BENESSE

> My parents didn't have much of a problem with me.....for some reason the motivation was always those in the words.
> "Do you want to paint the fences?.... or own the fences"?


That put me in mind for a different approach. Tell him..._I understand if you don't want to study and do homework, here's something else you can do instead_...then load 'im up with chores so he doesn't have a free minute to himself.
He just might realize, studying and getting good grades (not to mention praise and rewards) is easier than working his fingers to the bone with sucky work.

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## 1stimestar

I call them bribes sometimes too but isn't it simply a reward for doing a good job?  Don't we ALL work for a reward?  I know I wouldn't go to work if they didn't pay me.  That's the way the world works.  And yea, with teens you have to do what you have to do.  Not all of them have the same motivation ect.  Good luck.

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## kyratshooter

Advice from a father, grandfather, career teacher;

Stop the bribes and choices and Kick his A$$ !!

He is 13, he has no ability to make choices other than "I don't want my A$$ kicked"!  

Good things happening are optional, an it is YOUR option.

If you give him options at 13 he will be running the place by the time he is 15 and trying to cut deals on every aspect of life that should be an automatic "given".  

His bad performance for last semester should not get him a new shotgun for scraping by this semester, It should get him summer school while everyone else is on vacation!

It is life lesson time.  You work hard and struggle every day and give life your best and you keep your job, you screw up ONCE and you are FIRED !!! 

I have a niece that got thrown out of nursing school in her last semester, at 22, due to a "possession" charge.  Her scream was that they did not give her a second chance or even call her in to cut a deal!  She had been raised on bribes and bargaining for behaviors and could not comprehend a zero tolerance policy.  Her career as a crack whore is now in full swing and she is very successful in her new endeavor.

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## Rick

Is this a sudden occurrence? You might look for possible reasons that his behavior has abruptly changed. Personally, I don't agree with the bribe. It's your son and it's not my place to tell you how to raise him. Life doesn't bribe us and bribing him doesn't make him want to learn. It just entices him to do the minimum to obtain the shotgun, if that's what he wants. Kicking his rear accomplishes the same thing. Neither approach will make him want to learn. Try to find out what's changed his behavior and/or why he doesn't want to work at school. There are a lot of reasons that could be behind it and you can conjure up your own nightmares. But I would be far more concerned about the root cause than forcing him to do something that he clearly is trying to avoid. The goal here is for him to WANT to learn not just attain a set grade. He can do that without learning anything. If necessary, he might even hire a friend to do his homework for him just for the prize. You know the old adage, be careful what you ask for.

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## finallyME

Thanks for all the responses!  There is a lot of experience here.  I will say that this isn't the only approach we are taking.  

We have been doing the punishment thing for a while now.  I think he is in the giving up stage.  He will still be punished for failing...and he still has to retake the classes he already failed.  He also doesn't play video games (because he failed his classes) or watch TV.  He spends his free time reading books or building something (some things are genetic).

Benesse, a couple weeks ago, his class did a "job shadow" day.  Every 7th grader in the district went out and found someone to job shadow (mostly it is your parent, but sometimes it isn't).  Anyways, I took him to work and showed him what people with college degrees do all day.  Then I took him to my brother's job.  He is a construction manager.  That day he was managing the construction of a bunch of 4 plexes.  He showed him all the different jobs and explained the difference in education.  Basically my brother is the boss and the only one with a college degree.   He said that if we wanted to on another day, he would let him ride around in the truck with him for a day.  And, in the summer actually let him work with one of the crews for the day.

For some reason, I never gave my parents any problems.  I think I just had more pride and wanted to be better than everyone else.  My brother (same brother as above) struggled through school and barely passed High School.  It took a couple years with sucky jobs to convince him to go to Community College.  At first he wanted to be a dentist, but failed some of the classes.  His brother in law has a construction company (he is working for him now) and pushed him into construction.  He eventually found something he liked and started doing really well.  He transferred to a 4 year and graduated with honors in Construction Management.  
I have two BILs who have a similar story...did poorly in High School....sucky jobs.... Community College...find what they love...one is a Doctor and the other got a masters in Biochemistry.

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## BENESSE

FM, you are doing all the right things, "job shadow" being a super useful way of making it all very real and not theoretical. Kids whose parents put in the time to guide them in the right direction will sooner or later straighten up and find the motivation they need to keep going on their own. Parents just prefer it to happen sooner.

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## nell67

> Advice from a father, grandfather, career teacher;
> *
> Stop the bribes and choices and Kick his A$$ !!*
> 
> He is 13, he has no ability to make choices other than "I don't want my A$$ kicked"!  
> 
> Good things happening are optional, an it is YOUR option.
> 
> If you give him options at 13 he will be running the place by the time he is 15 and trying to cut deals on every aspect of life that should be an automatic "given".  
> ...


I could not agree more, and I am so glad to hear/see a former teacher say this. I struggled with my youngest son after he began school, and basically was forced to put him on meds for ADHD or keep him home. The meds work for a while, but he would outgrow the dosage and was constantly needing adjustments to his meds.

Then I began bribing him with $$ each day that he came home with a good behavior report (at the time it was .25 cents a day, but he was in 1st grade so to him it was bank) but the too had to be adjusted continually. I tried everything, taking away his privileges, video games ( worst thing ever for a kid to have in the first place)time outs everything except what he really needed= his rear kicked, that ended when he went to school and they told him that spanking was abuse. 

Bottom line is, be a parent and set the rules, do it now before he is of the mind that he doesn't have to do what you say, and nothing you can do about it. You as a parent have the right to punish your child (big difference between punishing via spanking/whipping and abuse). My son eventually dropped out of high school at 18 he still needed to go another year to make up the credits he screwed up by not doing his work, and by arguing with instructors instead of listening. as a consequence of dropping out, he has a hard time getting a good job and keeping one when he does get one.

He has been homeless twice since dropping out, and once told me when he asked me for money and I refused (didn't have it to give to begin with) he said that since I was his mother, it was my job to help him out.

Somewhere, I went way wrong when I bought into the schools mentality that a kid needs drugs to control their behavior and that spanking was cruel and abuse. Good Luck to you and your son. If you buy him the gun this time, what will it take the next time, and the time after that when he decides he doesn't want to do the work?

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## Grizz123

> My parents didn't have much of a problem with me.....for some reason the motivation was always those in the words.
> "Do you want to paint the fences?.... or own the fences"?
> You can do anything you want if you work for it...Good grades makes it easier.
> 
> But teens can make for trying times....
> 
> With that kind of bribe...at least it's something that may help with a better bond between both of you.
> Good luck.


No college degree here and I own the company that cleans the fences - its good to be a business owner




> I call them bribes sometimes too but isn't it simply a reward for doing a good job?  Don't we ALL work for a reward?  I know I wouldn't go to work if they didn't pay me.  That's the way the world works.  And yea, with teens you have to do what you have to do.  Not all of them have the same motivation ect.  Good luck.


If I won the lottery today I would have at least one business going within a year, employ a few people with good wages based on business success, not the lottery winnings. Rewards from work are diverse




> Benesse, a couple weeks ago, his class did a "job shadow" day.  Every 7th grader in the district went out and found someone to job shadow (mostly it is your parent, but sometimes it isn't).  Anyways, I took him to work and showed him what people with college degrees do all day.  Then I took him to my brother's job.  He is a construction manager.  That day he was managing the construction of a bunch of 4 plexes.  He showed him all the different jobs and explained the difference in education.  Basically my brother is the boss and the only one with a college degree.   He said that if we wanted to on another day, he would let him ride around in the truck with him for a day.  And, in the summer actually let him work with one of the crews for the day.
> 
> For some reason, I never gave my parents any problems.  I think I just had more pride and wanted to be better than everyone else.  My brother (same brother as above) struggled through school and barely passed High School.  It took a couple years with sucky jobs to convince him to go to Community College.  At first he wanted to be a dentist, but failed some of the classes.  His brother in law has a construction company (he is working for him now) and pushed him into construction.  He eventually found something he liked and started doing really well.  He transferred to a 4 year and graduated with honors in Construction Management.  
> I have two BILs who have a similar story...did poorly in High School....sucky jobs.... Community College...find what they love...one is a Doctor and the other got a masters in Biochemistry.


College is great if you're interested in working for someone else the rest of your life. Personally I found freedom and happiness when I started my own business and I do not have a degree. 

BTW, when I see some of you college educated condescending, smug attitudes, my prices go up. Its a shame your parents didnt teach you to respect everyone regardless of their education or profession. You pull your pants down to use the bathroom same as everyone else, a college degree does not change that. 

Sucky jobs??? Most people do what they do because they enjoy it, whether or not you think its sucky has nothing to do with their decision. How can you be so smug, arrogant and condescending??? Is your life so miserable you need to look down on others to make yourself feel better??

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## Rick

> Its a shame your parents didnt teach you to respect everyone regardless of their education or profession.




Wow. Looks like the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe your parents should have done the same. 

I'm college educated, worked for someone else and had all the freedom and happiness I wanted. Just because someone works for a company does not mean they are slave trade. You should really examine why you feel the need to talk down to others, which is exactly what you are berating them for. Personally, I have great respect for all trades. Unless, of course, they come across as you just did. Maybe your attitude is what is driving their condescending one?

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## natertot

Grizz, you being a successful, non-college educated, business owner makes you the exception and not the rule. That is something to be commended for, but is not the reality for an overwhelming majority of people. Many things take education regardless. Can't open up a clinic or a vet office without having the college education in those fields, or experience in those fields for that matter. If you are a fence washer owner, port-a-potty service owner, car wash owner or the like without a college degree and are happy, good on you. Not everyone is cut out to be a business owner, though, or they desire to own a business in a field that requires extensive knowledge. I have worked for people a lot during my life, and I enjoy the relationships that I build with my bosses and employers. Some of my former employers have become friends of mine and many have taught me things beyond the job that I will carry forever. Just remember, you are the exception and not the rule.

As far as the disciplinary actions for a child lacking motivation, all that depends on the child. Things that "motivated" me did not work on my younger brother and vice versa. Same with my two young ones. Some things work better for my daughter than my son and vice versa. I am not an expert parent by any means, but I have learned you have to use the consequences (positive or negative) that fit your child. Overall, I use a combination of negative and positive reinforcement. They do well, they are rewarded. If they do bad, they are punished. It is up to them to choose what they want. It is my thought that when they reach adulthood, they will look at their decisions and the that consequences that follow, more simply known as "cause and effect". Right now, my kids are 5 and almost 8 so I have no idea how it will work out. Ask me again in 12-15 years, If they are still living at home I will know!

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## crashdive123

Gee.  Let's see....got a college degree and have worked for others and own my own business.  With a condescending attitude that was displayed in post #13 I'm pretty sure that I would have to close up shop and go work for somebody else again.

Yeah - good luck with that.

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## BENESSE

> College is great if you're interested in working for someone else the rest of your life. Personally I found freedom and happiness when I started my own business and I do not have a degree. 
> 
> *A few disconnects in your reasoning there, grizz. One can start his/her own business even with a college degree and find freedom and happiness in being self employed. Which doesn't mean you can't achieve the same without one the way you did.* 
> 
> BTW, when I see some of you college educated condescending, smug attitudes, my prices go up. Its a shame your parents didnt teach you to respect everyone regardless of their education or profession. You pull your pants down to use the bathroom same as everyone else, a college degree does not change that. 
> 
> *There are A holes with and without college degrees. The fact you only had issues with those who went to college is curious. Obviously you don't respect everyone regardless of education or profession or you wouldn't have such bitter bias against people who went to college.*
> 
> Sucky jobs??? Most people do what they do because they enjoy it, whether or not you think its sucky has nothing to do with their decision. How can you be so smug, arrogant and condescending??? Is your life so miserable you need to look down on others to make yourself feel better??
> ...


Grizz, I don't know how old you are and what your experience has been so far to make you think the way you do. You might have overcome a lot of challenges to get to where you are today, but obviously you carry some deep seated bitterness that is bound to affect your work and interaction with people. If you have kids I sincerely hope you keep it all in check.

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## 1stimestar

My family consists of 5 girls.  All but one is college educated.  The one that did not go to college is the most successful according to normal American standards.  Big house in Ft. Worth, sports car, vacations in Barbados etc.  I'm happy for her because she is happy with her life.  That life would not have been possible for me though.  She moved to "the big city" the minute she hit 18 and went to work, worked until she rose to the top, you know, the normal way to get "there" in times past.  That wouldn't have worked for me though as the big city is not for me.  I went to college to be a high school English teacher.  I taught for a while but found it really wasn't for me.  I loved the kids and teaching.  Teenagers don't scare me.  But the background politics of any school is what drove me away.  Now I am in an unrelated field that I worked myself into.  It would not have been possible without a college degree.  

College isn't for everyone but education is.  It doesn't matter if that education comes from a school or trying to make rent on a Taco Bell wage.  I have one kid who will not be going to college (unless he changes his mind years down the road like I did) and one who will.  I think both of them can be successful and satisfied with their lives.  It is my job to teach them how to live life and while they are still young, that may involve "bribes".  I teach them about consequences; both positive and negative.  Sorry but their young minds are not always up to par with making the right choice.  That is what we are for.  The cliche young and dumb is a cliche for a reason.  No one can say how we parent our individual kids is right or wrong.  There is no right or wrong way to make successful adults (not talking about out and out abuse here of course).  Sorry, my 17 year old son has been taller then me since he was 11.  He's been to big to spank for years.  My 14 daughter never really needed it because she was and is an easy child.

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## hunter63

Going back to the OP, and kinda in line with my previous post.....seems you would really like to set him up with a hunting tool.

Maybe not directly tie it to grades.....just spending time with him...... training, shooting, hunting, and doing it together, may help him wanting to do well.

Just a thought.

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## tundrabadger

> Going back to the OP, and kinda in line with my previous post.....seems you would really like to set him up with a hunting tool.
> 
> Maybe not directly tie it to grades.....just spending time with him...... training, shooting, hunting, and doing it together, may help him wanting to do well.
> 
> Just a thought.


That might be the best advice given in the whole thread, hunter.  A bribe may or may not help,  but  some one on one time with Dad doing something you both enjoy,   a little time to talk....might help to figure out what exactly the deal is with him and school.  i know,  finallyMe,  you've been doing your bit as a parent, but changing the dynamic a bit can make a world of difference.  I'm not a parent, mind,  but that sort of thing worked for me when i was a kid and  I was struggling with the system.

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## finallyME

One of my college classes was how to be condescending and smug.
I grew up with a dad who didn't have a degree.  My whole life growing up, my dad told me to get a degree.  He hated his job and worked for money to support his family.  He saw what a degree brought other people.  All 5 of his kids have a degree..
I spent my life surrounded by people who didn't have a degree.  I gained a deep respect for them.  I moved to an area that was predominately blue collar working class.  I just get along with them better.
When I took my son to meet my brother at his work.... guess what all the foremen told him?  These are all the guys in charge of the work crews.  They had worked their way up from nothing.  They all told my son to get good grades and get a college degree.  Why would they say that if they were satisfied?
I was motivated to finish my degree by working several manual labor jobs, from landscaping to shoveling to installing sprinklers.  What I saw was that the business owner made money, and no one else did.  That is the same with the jobs I have had with my degree.  The only difference is that employees with a degree always make more money than employees without one.  A really good friend of mine, who I have learned a lot from, is the janitor at our elementary school.  He makes less than the teachers.  Why is that?  He is older and wiser than me, and catches way more fish than I can ever.  Every time he takes me fishing, I try to copy him and learn from him, but he is still way better.  I don't look down on him as a janitor, I see him as a trusted friend who works hard to provide for his family.  

Nell, my son has ADHD.  We don't drug him, never had.  He has several friends who are also ADHD.  He is not as bad as some of them (bad with ADHD not behavior wise).  When I take them camping, they lose most of the ADHD symptoms.  I think the outdoors does something to them.  Too bad they can't have school outside.

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## tundrabadger

> One of my college classes was how to be condescending and smug.
> I grew up with a dad who didn't have a degree.  My whole life growing up, my dad told me to get a degree.  He hated his job and worked for money to support his family.  He saw what a degree brought other people.  All 5 of his kids have a degree..
> I spent my life surrounded by people who didn't have a degree.  I gained a deep respect for them.  I moved to an area that was predominately blue collar working class.  I just get along with them better.
> When I took my son to meet my brother at his work.... guess what all the foremen told him?  These are all the guys in charge of the work crews.  They had worked their way up from nothing.  They all told my son to get good grades and get a college degree.  Why would they say that if they were satisfied?
> I was motivated to finish my degree by working several manual labor jobs, from landscaping to shoveling to installing sprinklers.  What I saw was that the business owner made money, and no one else did.  That is the same with the jobs I have had with my degree.  The only difference is that employees with a degree always make more money than employees without one.  A really good friend of mine, who I have learned a lot from, is the janitor at our elementary school.  He makes less than the teachers.  Why is that?  He is older and wiser than me, and catches way more fish than I can ever.  Every time he takes me fishing, I try to copy him and learn from him, but he is still way better.  I don't look down on him as a janitor, I see him as a trusted friend who works hard to provide for his family.  
> 
> Nell, my son has ADHD.  We don't drug him, never had.  He has several friends who are also ADHD.  He is not as bad as some of them (bad with ADHD not behavior wise).  When I take them camping, they lose most of the ADHD symptoms.  I think the outdoors does something to them.  Too bad they can't have school outside.



Good for you...I have ADHD myself,  and while medication isn't a bad idea for some,  i don't think it should be a universal thing.  I wasn't medicated as a kid,   it made for rough going occasionally...things like math that didn't interest me I couldn't focus on well in school, for example...but with work and a certain amount of grit,  you can learn to work with it, and turn some aspects into strengths rather than weaknesses.

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## Grizz123

> Grizz, you being a successful, non-college educated, business owner makes you the exception and not the rule. That is something to be commended for, but is not the reality for an overwhelming majority of people. Many things take education regardless. Can't open up a clinic or a vet office without having the college education in those fields, or experience in those fields for that matter. If you are a fence washer owner, port-a-potty service owner, car wash owner or the like without a college degree and are happy, good on you. Not everyone is cut out to be a business owner, though, or they desire to own a business in a field that requires extensive knowledge. I have worked for people a lot during my life, and I enjoy the relationships that I build with my bosses and employers. Some of my former employers have become friends of mine and many have taught me things beyond the job that I will carry forever. Just remember, you are the exception and not the rule.





> Gee.  Let's see....got a college degree and have worked for others and own my own business.  With a condescending attitude that was displayed in post #13 I'm pretty sure that I would have to close up shop and go work for somebody else again.
> 
> Yeah - good luck with that.





> Grizz, I don't know how old you are and what your experience has been so far to make you think the way you do. You might have overcome a lot of challenges to get to where you are today, but obviously you carry some deep seated bitterness that is bound to affect your work and interaction with people. If you have kids I sincerely hope you keep it all in check.


Well my original response was poorly communicated because I was not saying a college education was bad, I was trying to point out that the OP was being condescending towards non-college educated people. I was also trying to say that if his kids decide not to go to college it will not be the end of the world for them and he should not put that thought in their heads.

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## Grizz123

Quote Originally Posted by Grizz123  View Post
College is great if you're interested in working for someone else the rest of your life. Personally I found freedom and happiness when I started my own business and I do not have a degree. 

*A few disconnects in your reasoning there, grizz. One can start his/her own business even with a college degree and find freedom and happiness in being self employed. Which doesn't mean you can't achieve the same without one the way you did.* 

BTW, when I see some of you college educated condescending, smug attitudes, my prices go up. Its a shame your parents didnt teach you to respect everyone regardless of their education or profession. You pull your pants down to use the bathroom same as everyone else, a college degree does not change that. 

*There are A holes with and without college degrees. The fact you only had issues with those who went to college is curious. Obviously you don't respect everyone regardless of education or profession or you wouldn't have such bitter bias against people who went to college.*

Read what I wrote! I never mentioned I only had issues with college educated, smug people, I said when I encounter them I raise prices. I respect everyone and expect the same in return, when I don't get it I treat people like they treat me or walk away or raise their prices to pay for the headache they gave me

Sucky jobs??? Most people do what they do because they enjoy it, whether or not you think its sucky has nothing to do with their decision. How can you be so smug, arrogant and condescending??? Is your life so miserable you need to look down on others to make yourself feel better??

*I don't know whether most people do what they do because they enjoy it or because they'd rather work than be unemployed. Let's be honest: any job is better than no job, but some jobs are better than others in terms of fulfillment and a chance to grow and prosper. The more option you have in getting such a job, the better. How can that be a bad thing and how would you not want that for your children?!*

Grizz, I don't know how old you are and what your experience has been so far to make you think the way you do. You might have overcome a lot of challenges to get to where you are today, but obviously you carry some deep seated bitterness that is bound to affect your work and interaction with people. If you have kids I sincerely hope you keep it all in check.

Its not deep seated bitterness, its pointing out that a person does not need college to make a good living, be happy or be respected, which is not what the OP was teaching his kid.

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## 1stimestar

It also depends on who you are as to if the job sucks or not.  I love my job.  It's important to me to feel as if I am making a contribution to my chosen society, standing up for those who are no longer able to stand alone.  My job would also scare the **** out of most women I know.  I also live on call with the exception of my vacation times.  That is not acceptable to most people.  But since they pay me for it, I welcome it.  One person's sucky job is another persons challenge.

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## BENESSE

A sucky job is one where you are underpaid, overworked and disrespected. Doesn't matter what you do or how much you love it. You could be a lawyer in a white shoe firm, a high school teacher or a migrant worker. A sucky job is one that makes you miserable but even worse than that is knowing you're stuck in it with no prospects of doing better. 

Most of us have had sucky jobs--you know it when you're in it. It can either be a stepping stone or a dead end--up to us to decide which.

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## Rick

Grizz - There is no reason to throw out challenges and exclamation points. Every single person that read your post came away with the same opinion. That's why you received the responses you did. If you communicated poorly, as you indicated, that's fine. We all do it from time to time. Having left it there would have been the respectable thing to do. But then to come back and point the finger at someone who responded as if it were their fault was a little over the top.

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## hunter63

I have to agree with Rick.....
You offered your opinion...People didn't agree......Time to move on.

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## Old Professor

My daughter and SIL are currently dealing with a similar situation with my oldest grand daughter, who is 12 and two months shy of 13. She is very smart and it think bored with school. She constantly earns detention for not turning in assigned work or signing (forging) her mothers name on papers sent home for her parents to sign and return to the teacher or school. They have tried taking away things she likes and bribing her with things she wants, with limited success. Part of the problem, from my point of view, is that my daughter, inspite of a graduate degree in education, simply does not/will not stay involved with her daughters. It is left to my SIL to do the parenting. Inspite of my 37 years as an educater, from elementary through college age students, I have discovered that there is no magic formula to motivate students. What works for one probably wont work for the next. They have to find that opportunity that really grabs their interest and really turns them on. The best we can do is expose them to as many different opportunities as possible.

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## finallyME

Grizz, I will be the first to apologize.  I did sound condescending in my remarks.  If you knew me, you might think different, or the same, I don't know.  At work, I am generally condescending toward all the PhDs I have to work with.  Sometimes too much education can get to your head and take you away from reality.  I only have a BS.  I have had to train some people who have a masters in the same field.  I had to teach them a lot of stuff that you can't learn in school, but that I was taught by my Dad or other blue collar workers, or just talking with the machinists.

As for my son, my dad told me when I was a teenager that he would be happy with whatever career I chose, as long as I worked hard and provided for my family.  I tell my kids the same thing.  However, I still need to teach them the realities of life.  Most people who don't have a college degree wish they had, and most who have a degree in a non-STEM field find out that they really don't use it much.  There are always exceptions to the rule...that is why there is a bell curve.  I would rather they had an opportunity to go to college and then pass it up then not have that opportunity in the first place.  And, the only people who really make money are business owners, and as Rich Dad/Poor Dad will tell you...no one cares what grades you got in school if you are the business owner.

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## Mr.Shrooms

I believe you are alwase better off with a degree, training, military service, Or any combination of the three. I have none of the three, and would probably be doing alot better if I had the skill sets acquired from any one of them. Lots of people work hard. People work hard studying, working at the same time and being alert in a classroom (where I could fall asleep when I'm fully rested)and manage to learn and get a degree. Some people work hard find a craft or skill set they are good with or enjoy and even work hard to build there own company from scratch. But neither of these types ever seem condescending just because they point out the hard work they have accomplished, the benifit that came from the fruits of their labor, or even proud of the hard work they have done, and belive it is a root worth traveling.

As far as the shot gun goes. I have to agree with hunter, The father son bonding thing goes a long way. My dad got us all shotguns as soon as we were able to hunt(I don't know if they were just gifts or just an excuse he could get past my mother for a reason to buy a new gun). I think the trick would be something along the lines of giving him the gun as a gift and making him work for the shooting/hunting trips. Yeah we can go shoot/hunt but i have to have my so and so work done and you have to have your school work done.Then you can get him the gun (I will take any reason i can to get a new gun) and because you probably want to get it anyway. You are both working toward that goal. And you are showing him you dont get to go either if you dont work for it. If he comes up short o well i got my work done i get to go. Its not a punishment or bribe, you just can't relax till all the work is done, and thats something you learn degree or no. Also it gives you a reason to say something like how's subject/project whatever going in school , and this and that is really going good at work and I'm on scedulal for this trip. Also is there something i can do to help so we can get out there. if he gives up you still have a shotgun, so just make sure you like it to.

Im new to posting on forums and I'm posting from my phone so this is all new and tricky to me. But I was reading back there about someone with a BS and thought well I'm full of BS so if at any time this post seems odd, or the advice seems poor, please just refer to that.

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## Rick

There are certainly varying degrees one can acquire with a BS. Varying depths as well.

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## Wildthang

Ooooooooooookay, so is it a ,223 and 20 gauge???????? :Smartass:

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## Winnie

Bearing in mind, Winnie jnr didn't do well at school,I just showed him the OP, his response was."Good luck with that, I would have improved my grades just long enough to get the goodies and gone straight back to my old ways." Some kids just don't or won't learn.

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## Wildthang

I think bribing children just assures them even more that they are in control of you!

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## WASATCH CHARLIE

Today, whatever works and if it gives you quality time together,more power to you.    Shotgun and the 223 is a good combo  as i believe you or an adult must accompany your son while afield in UTAH... 
As for education,lets not get too off track....I  finished high school and took a year off,then,because a university was just a few miles away,i decided (With the help of what is called a COUNSELLOR today)
i took two  semesters  studying  AGRONOMY  (SOIL SCIENCE) a  waste of   MY  time and money.  (Grandparents had very little).  I  got involved with the marine industry    and it became  pretty much a life long enjoyable career.      Had my own business and as a lot of people i know,did so without without a college/university degree.
It takes dedication and hard ''smart'' work.
My daughter (34)and son in law have a very successful construction company...building  high end homes from the ''breaking ground'' to the finished home.         At 13  years  old,i would not be overly concerned  at what it takes to have your son improve his grades..........lots of   EXPERTS   giving advice on the net.......... talk to close friends and family.......that is where the GOOD advice is....and again,spending time together.....that is what counts...   good luck.    WC

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## Rick

> lots of EXPERTS giving advice on the net




Sooooo....is your advice from an EXPERT on the net?

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## finallyME

After last night trying to get him to finish up his assignments that he hasn't turned in before the end of the term..... I highly doubt he will be getting a shotgun this summer.  So, you can all rest easy knowing that I am not bribing my kid.

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