# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Bolt actions make poor survival rifles.

## y2k

Practically anywhere in the lower  48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc. you can then just mark the line of travel, and walk there the next day or two. So, unless it's shtf, there's no point in a "survival' rifle".  Even if you're sick or hurt, a rifle is no help. you'd be way ahead to have a 1 lb .22 HG, and 5-6 lbs of survival type gear, instead of a 6-7 lb centerfire rifle and ammo.

All you really need is a satellilte phone, or just make a smoky fire and keep it going, someone will come to investigate it and save you. So you just need to keep the weather from killing you for a few days, and maybe have some water. If just lying around, you don't need food for weeks on end. I've known several men who fasted for over 30 days.

So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.

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## DOGMAN

> Practically anywhere in the lower  48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc. you can then just mark the line of travel, and walk there the next day or two. So, unless it's shtf, there's no point in a "survival' rifle".  Even if you're sick or hurt, a rifle is no help. you'd be way ahead to have a 1 lb .22 HG, and 5-6 lbs of survival type gear, instead of a 6-7 lb centerfire rifle and ammo.
> 
> All you really need is a satellilte phone, or just make a smoky fire and keep it going, someone will come to investigate it and save you. So you just need to keep the weather from killing you for a few days, and maybe have some water. If just lying around, you don't need food for weeks on end. I've known several men who fasted for over 30 days.
> 
> So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.


I disagree with just about everything you've said here...other than its tough to get off a second shot with a bolt action.  And, if you want to talk about traveling light...why not skip the pistol and just have bear spray....thats even lighter and will serve you better dealing with any aggressive predators

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## Sourdough

> I disagree with just about everything you've said here...other than its tough to get off a second shot with a bolt action.  And, if you want to talk about traveling light...why not skip the pistol and just have bear spray....thats even lighter and will serve you better dealing with any aggressive predators



I disagree with everything he or she (Y2K) has posted so far on this forum.

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## Sourdough

> Practically anywhere in the lower  48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc. you can then just mark the line of travel, and walk there the next day or two. So, unless it's shtf, there's no point in a "survival' rifle".  Even if you're sick or hurt, a rifle is no help. you'd be way ahead to have a 1 lb .22 HG, and 5-6 lbs of survival type gear, instead of a 6-7 lb centerfire rifle and ammo.
> 
> All you really need is a satellilte phone, or just make a smoky fire and keep it going, someone will come to investigate it and save you. So you just need to keep the weather from killing you for a few days, and maybe have some water. If just lying around, you don't need food for weeks on end. I've known several men who fasted for over 30 days.
> 
> So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.


That is FUNNY........150 years ago they were doing it with muzzle loaders and surviving. And men have been surviving just fine with bolt action rifles sense before you were born. I spent 34 years as a Alaskan Professional Hunter, and the only firearm we carried was controled round feed bolt action rifles.

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## y2k

As I said, you don't need a rifle AT ALL for survival, unless combat is an issue. You want to fight with that muzzleloader? It won't be against ignorant barbarians with just bows, you know. 100 times as many people today, too

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## DOGMAN

y2k- for many of us here, Survival has nothing to do with "fighting" I never even think about using a rifle for shooting a human- thats not the type of "survival" I practice.

For me, and my family survival is "Meat in the freezer" we rely heavily on deer, elk and antelope meat as a major source of our yearly food supply.  And, for the type of "survival" I practice a bolt action rifle is probably your best bet for year in and year out dependability.  I have a .270 semi-auto I'd trade in a second for a nice dependable bolt action....as far as "meat guns" go a .30-06 bolt action is the perfect survival rifle

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## y2k

There are people who "disagree" with the idea that the individual's freedom should be paramount, that 2+2=4, etc. Care to demo WHY what I said is wrong? You can't, or you would have done so.  It's a fact that you don't need the rifle, unless combat is an issue, and it's a fact that bolt actions suck for combat. you can not like it all you want, but you can't change the facts. It's far smarter to like what has to be, since it will be, anyway, and all your "not liking" will accomplish is to make you unhappy.

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## y2k

Bolt actions can't do a thing that autos can't do better, or at least as well, and autos can do things that bolt actions can't touch. You don't need to live where you have to hunt, you see. you can hunt those critters with a used, $400 Remington autorifle, in 308, for cheap milsurp practice ammo,and fine performance with softpoints. Deer are big animals, shots beyond 300m are inhumane, the auto is plenty accurate enough for that. This 1/2 MOA bs has gone way too far. you don't eat crows or prairie dogs, and you can take all of them you want with a handgun, or with traps. ditto the deer, elk and moose, for that matter. Traps and snares work for you 24-7, and you can have scores of them working at the same time. You can only be in one place at once. 

You snare deer with a horizontal loop, 6.5-7 ft off of the ground, and hang an apple, carrot, etc, about 1 ft above the loop.  Bury half of a salt block nearby, leave sweet corn, apples, carrots there, until you see them pawing for the salt. Then just occasionally leave the food. They will frequent the area, and not care about your scent. Then, when need venison, set the cable loop.

Moose and elk are caught by foot snares, cabled to drag logs. Not as easy/effective as the deer snare, but when you catch one, you get a lot more meat. So you don't need to catch more than one a year. you need a deer per month, along with small critters and fish.

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## y2k

There's no reason to waste time and money on non-military centerfire rifle rds. What matters is your ability to hit, and hit before the critter can move. That takes lots of practice, and milsurp 308 is as cheap as the components to load 270 Win. So the time you spend on loading 270's is wasted, could be spent setting snares, practicing your shooting, stalking.

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## DOGMAN

> There are people who "disagree" with the idea that the individual's freedom should be paramount, that 2+2=4, etc. Care to demo WHY what I said is wrong? You can't, or you would have done so.  It's a fact that you don't need the rifle, unless combat is an issue, and it's a fact that bolt actions suck for combat. you can not like it all you want, but you can't change the facts. It's far smarter to like what has to be, since it will be, anyway, and all your "not liking" will accomplish is to make you unhappy.


so, who were you quoting with "not liking"?....i dont see any posts in this thread when anyone other than you has used that phrase...

And as far as caring to demo, "Practically anywhere in the lower 48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc."  I'd love to show you lots of places in the lower 48 that you cant see any lights at night...there are wilderness areas all over Montana and Idaho where you cant see any lights at night from the higest points around...I've been to lots of them- obviuosly you havent

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## Sourdough

> Bolt actions can't do a thing that autos can't do better, or at least as well, and autos can do things that bolt actions can't touch. You don't need to live where you have to hunt, you see. you can hunt those critters with a used, $400 Remington autorifle, in 308, for cheap milsurp practice ammo,and fine performance with softpoints. Deer are big animals, shots beyond 300m are inhumane, the auto is plenty accurate enough for that. This 1/2 MOA bs has gone way too far. you don't eat crows or prairie dogs, and you can take all of them you want with a handgun, or with traps. ditto the deer, elk and moose, for that matter. Traps and snares work for you 24-7, and you can have scores of them working at the same time. You can only be in one place at once. 
> 
> You snare deer with a horizontal loop, 6.5-7 ft off of the ground, and hang an apple, carrot, etc, about 1 ft above the loop.  Bury half of a salt block nearby, leave sweet corn, apples, carrots there, until you see them pawing for the salt. Then just occasionally leave the food. They will frequent the area, and not care about your scent. Then, when need venison, set the cable loop.
> 
> Moose and elk are caught by foot snares, cabled to drag logs. Not as easy/effective as the deer snare, but when you catch one, you get a lot more meat. So you don't need to catch more than one a year. you need a deer per month, along with small critters and fish.



Alaska Hunting Guide use CRF Mausers with converted safety, or pre 1964 Winchester Model 70's.

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## y2k

So? Koreans eat cats. Lots of ignorant people in Alaska, just like anywhere else.

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## DOGMAN

> you can take all of them you want with a handgun, or with traps. ditto the deer, elk and moose, for that matter. Traps and snares work for you 24-7, and you can have scores of them working at the same time. You can only be in one place at once. 
> 
> You snare deer with a horizontal loop, 6.5-7 ft off of the ground, and hang an apple, carrot, etc, about 1 ft above the loop.  Bury half of a salt block nearby, leave sweet corn, apples, carrots there, until you see them pawing for the salt. Then just occasionally leave the food. They will frequent the area, and not care about your scent. Then, when need venison, set the cable loop.
> 
> Moose and elk are caught by foot snares, cabled to drag logs. Not as easy/effective as the deer snare, but when you catch one, you get a lot more meat. So you don't need to catch more than one a year. you need a deer per month, along with small critters and fish.


So, are you telling this from actual first-hand experience or just stuff you found in a book or on-line?  I seriously doubt you have ever caught a moose or elk with a foot snare...and if you did catch one like that- how did you dispatch it once you snared it?  let me guess a club....

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## kyratshooter

> So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.


Quite a contridiction between the first and last posts Y2.

It seems you have been associating with people whose IQ is the same as their magazine capacity.

I dare say that most of the AR shooters here would prefer to have their fast shooters, but would remain alive, functional and effective even with an obsolete, unusabile military weapon like the Remington M40, a scoped Mosin, and MIV Einfield or,,,,, oh excuse me, those are rifles in use till today or lasted well into the 1950s in full military service.  If I remember right I used to have to call in artillery when small yellow men started pinning down my M16, M60 equipped unit movements using those old bolt action rifles.

Yes, in the Eastern U.S. you can see lights almost anywhere.  On the AT one of my complaints was that I could still hear traffic on the roads.  

The Russian and German troops were inside the city limits of Stalingrad, where there had been plenty of lights, telephones, busses and automobiles only a few weeks before Sept 1942.  Both nations issued a bolt action rifle as their standard weapon and 2,000,000 people died inside that city before Feburary of the next year. 

Survival often comes without a fight.  Most of the time it comes without a fight.  I carry a day pack when on my afternoon walk.  I tripped and broke my ankle two years ago, it took me hours to hobble out of that park.  All I had was a bottle of water, I was just going over to the urban wilderness area, no biggie!  Might know I am the only person in the county that likes to walk in the rain!    

Two years ago two little old ladies got off the wrong exit of I75, wound up in the yard of an abandoned barn and died of dehydration and starvation within yards of the highway.  No one could see their car, or hear their cries for help.  They were in one of the few dead zones for phone service betweem Lexington and Cinncinatti.

It seems that little old ladies never consider using the cigerette lighter in the car to set the broken down old barn on fire so someone will come put it out and rescue them.

As H63 says, "the more you know the less you carry",  It works with survival guns too.  99% of the time a fight is won or lost before the first shot is fired, no matter what rifle you carry.

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## aflineman

> So? Koreans eat cats. Lots of ignorant people in Alaska, just like anywhere else.


 :No: 
I know many many Koreans (lived over there for quite a few years) and have never known one to eat a cat. (and I find the remark very insulting). 
A very broad brush you are using to paint there, calling both Alaskans and Koreans ignorant. This site is not really about zombie firefights and needing the fastest whizbang rifle to kill people. It is more about day to day survival. Many items you can use right now, this minute, at home.  
You will find many people here who have been there done that, and continue to do it every day. You might want to rethink calling someone's way of life ignorant, which is what I feel many of you rebuttals do. Just because someone does not see things your way, does not make them stupid. 
BTW, just out of curiosity, how many countries have you lived in? What is the longest time you have spent away from civilization? (No electricity, packing water, building a home). Many folks here have spent much of their lives making things with their hands, living with the land, and just boots in the field. Calling them ignorant is hypocrisy at it's best.

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## aflineman

> ...and if you did catch one like that- how did you dispatch it once you snared it?  let me guess a club....


I tried that with a deer which had been hit by a car (way before I had my CCW). They can put up a heck of a fight, when fighting for their lives.  :saberbattle:

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## y2k

Stalingrad was 70 years ago, against others with just bolt actions. Today, it's against 1022's, AR.s, AK's. In Korea, 1972, I saw lots of dogs kept for eating purposes. My houseboy said he preferred cats, but they were hard to get. Just because someone lives "in the field" doesn't make him aware of what's what in guns. Billions of people live without the luxury of power, etc, and have never HELD a gun. So what makes such people adequate judges of what's what with a gun, hmm? I've lived in Rhodesia, S. Africa, Korea, and the US. What diff does it make if you've lived in 100 countries, and your world is still brown? Ignorance knows no boundaries.

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## y2k

As I said, you can do anything with an auto that you can with a bolt, plus lots more things that the bolt can't touch. So why handicap yourself with the bolt action? Especially one that costs as much or more as the auto?

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## y2k

maybe I could get by with inferior gear, but why should I, or anyone else, take the risk? Guys have $30,000 in an SUV, thousands more in gear, and cry about an "extra"  $100 or so for a fighting rifle (as vs a bolt-clunk?)

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## DOGMAN

> I tried that with a deer which had been hit by a car (way before I had my CCW). They can put up a heck of a fight, when fighting for their lives.


I've dispatched quite a few animals with sticks over the years- its brutal and never easy.  I havent done a deer that way, but fur-bearers are pretty danged tough too....talking about inhumane- killing a deer with a stick thats been stuck in a foot snare for a few hours...I bet that will be some good tasting meat...lol

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## aflineman

> maybe I could get by with inferior gear, but why should I, or anyone else, take the risk? Guys have $30,000 in an SUV, thousands more in gear, and cry about an "extra"  $100 or so for a fighting rifle (as vs a bolt-clunk?)


You must be hanging out with the wrong crowd. Most folks I hang out with, their rifle costs more than their Pick-up. (BTW, what is this SUV thing). :Smile: 
I would not call a Remington .308 a "Fighting Rifle". What battles has it been used in? (Outside of an occasional battle with Remington over the model 742 sorta kinda recall).

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## SARKY

> As I said, you don't need a rifle AT ALL for survival, unless combat is an issue. You want to fight with that muzzleloader? It won't be against ignorant barbarians with just bows, you know. 100 times as many people today, too


You are absolutely right. You don't need a rifle to survive. because you won't. You realize comming off as a poser doesn't make you sound any smarter.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

He showed his cards when he suggested a large collection of stored info from the the internet. He has no experience to add and can only regurgitate what he has read online with a bad attitude.

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## finallyME

> so, who were you quoting with "not liking"?....i dont see any posts in this thread when anyone other than you has used that phrase...
> 
> And as far as caring to demo, "Practically anywhere in the lower 48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc."  I'd love to show you lots of places in the lower 48 that you cant see any lights at night...there are wilderness areas all over Montana and Idaho where you cant see any lights at night from the higest points around...I've been to lots of them- obviuosly you havent


Don't forget Utah.  I have been to lots of places in Utah were you can't see any lights, and that is standing on the highest peak in the state.

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## finallyME

Ah bolt guns.  I love bolt guns.  Highly accurate, cheap, and more reliable.  Anyways, aim more, shoot less.

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## DOGMAN

> Don't forget Utah.  I have been to lots of places in Utah were you can't see any lights, and that is standing on the highest peak in the state.



oh without a doubt...Wyoming too. I just havent personally been to the spots in all the states, but I bet most of the western states and a few eastern ones have them

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## aflineman

> oh without a doubt...Wyoming too. I just havent personally been to the spots in all the states, but I bet most of the western states and a few eastern ones have them


Yup. I can walk you to a few places around here where you will not see any lights at night. Heck, I can walk you to a few canyons within a mile of the house where you would not even get sat phone or SPOT service. Get stuck in one of those and you might be awhile before any human came visiting.

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## finallyME

> oh without a doubt...Wyoming too. I just havent personally been to the spots in all the states, but I bet most of the western states and a few eastern ones have them


Wait, there are eastern states?  Well that makes a lot more sense now.  Now I know why people keep saying my state is a western state.

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## finallyME

> Yup. I can walk you to a few places around here where you will not see any lights at night. Heck, I can walk you to a few canyons within a mile of the house where you would not even get sat phone or SPOT service. Get stuck in one of those and you might be awhile before any human came visiting.


When I took my son and the boy scouts backpacking in September in the Uintas, we climbed Bald Mountain.  I have t-mobile with crappy coverage.  But, on top of the mountain I had coverage with a bar.  So, I made the mistake of calling my wife.  I will never do that again.

"When are you coming home?"
"Why are you still out, those boys need to come home?"
"Your son is getting tired, you should come home."

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## oldsoldier

> Bolt actions can't do a thing that autos can't do better, or at least as well,.


 Hmm......??? REALLY???? Sooooo that must mean that almost all special forces, as well as law enforcement snipers have been wrong for years in their thinking and useage... Imagine that maybe you should call them and share your expertise.  Sorry but your way off base here. For a lot longer than you've been around "bolts"  have been a staple for precision shooting.

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## NightShade

Thanks for pointing that out FinallyME and oldsoldier....
I love my bolt action... though I would agree I wouldn't NEED it to survive.... Why would I get rid of it??.. especially where I shoot when hunting food not zombies.... and automatic weapons are illegal to hunt with... at least where I hunt.
This guy is a complete moron.
Guess he never heard that old adage " one shot , one kill."
Hey y2k, any idea how many machine gun-toting soldiers have been taken out by a sniper?....  probably not... because you sir, are an idiot!
Go ahead with your run and gun, spray and pray tactics...... it only takes 1 bullet, and you don't have to see it coming... jackass.

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## ravenscar

> Practically anywhere in the lower  48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc. you can then just mark the line of travel, and walk there the next day or two. So, unless it's shtf, there's no point in a "survival' rifle".  Even if you're sick or hurt, a rifle is no help. you'd be way ahead to have a 1 lb .22 HG, and 5-6 lbs of survival type gear, instead of a 6-7 lb centerfire rifle and ammo.
> 
> All you really need is a satellilte phone, or just make a smoky fire and keep it going, someone will come to investigate it and save you. So you just need to keep the weather from killing you for a few days, and maybe have some water. If just lying around, you don't need food for weeks on end. I've known several men who fasted for over 30 days.
> 
> So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.


 is it only me, or does anyone else facepalm when they read this?
 bolt actions are slow , but a good portion of the time they are more accurute and you have time to think between shots. mabey you should think between threads

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## klickitat

I keep trying to figure out what some one like Carlos Hathcock would have to say on the subject. ROFL

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## ravenscar

idk, wait till i read "silent warrior" again and i'll have a better idea

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## kyratshooter

> I keep trying to figure out what some one like Carlos Hathcock would have to say on the subject. ROFL


Carlos wouldn't have to say anything.  Tha last two record long range kills were with bolt action rifles.  One in .50 cal the other in .338Lup.  Both at nearly a mile and a half.

Between my bolt action .22 and my bolt action centerfires I pretty much keep myself fed.  Deer and squirrels hardly ever ask what you just shot them with or if it was Y2K certified.

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## klickitat

Y2K Certified!! KRS I am going to use that. That is funnier than crap.

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## NightShade

"Survival, without a need to fight, is long since just a fantasy,.... "

Hmpff... a teenage girl died in my town... less than a mile from my house, about 2 years ago now.... from exposure when she got lost at night in the woods......
A rifle may not of helped her... but I can guarantee a few shots in the air would have got the local law enforcement's attention.....

Somebody is sure living in a fantasy world.

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## RangerXanatos

Think we can get Y2K's opinion on the best survival knife?  :Innocent:

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## Justin Case

> Think we can get Y2K's opinion on the best survival knife?


LOL,,  Not for awhile !

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## Winter

> So? Koreans eat cats. Lots of ignorant people in Alaska, just like anywhere else.


What does it take to get banned?

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## 2dumb2kwit

> I keep trying to figure out what some one like Carlos Hathcock would have to say on the subject. ROFL


 LOL....that's the exact thought that popped in my head when I saw this thread.

 As a side note, I talked to him, for a few minutes, one time....but didn't know it was him, until a couple of years later. LOL

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## Sarge47

Marine Corps snipers use a bolt-action, Numpty!  I'd accept a 30-40 Krag &/or a Springfield '03 any day of the week!  Only guys who can't shoot for crap use the "spray & pray" method.  The real hunters use the "one shot, one kill" method.  

  Here's the thing, all of your posts so far have demonstrated you're complete misunderstanding of the term "Survival."  Shoot, you can't even survive this forum. 

You can stand out on my front porch from time to time & not see any city lights, however power failures happen pretty often around here.  

Want to see a real story about survival?  The History channel, I believe it is, is showing a documentory on the survivors of the Andes plane crash.  Keep talking "long-pig."    :boxer:

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## Camp10

I missed a real winner, didnt I? Want to know what a bolt action can do that a used Remington 7400 cant?  How about fire 100 rounds without jamming? 

I've been catching up after a week of 17 hour days at work and I have been enjoying the great advice from Y2K.

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## RangerXanatos

> Marine Corps snipers use a bolt-action, Numpty!


My first thoughts was this too.

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## hunter63

Well, been away for a while again, firewood you know, winter is comming.......
Seems you boys have this under control......
I like my bply guns aqnd beginging to lke my Single shots even better.
Carry on..................

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## kyratshooter

> What does it take to get banned?


I recommend that anyone wishing to be banned go back and read all the posts Y2K made over the week.  I think they will lead up to the quote you just used, revering to the intelligence level of Alaskans.

Y2 has the system worked out perfectly.  

He really lasted longer here than he would have on some other forums due to the fact that we were baiting him for sport.

 :knight: 

I would like to get him wound up on the survival knife thing though.  He was already on the way with the arrowhead and multitool thread.

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## crashdive123

He was actually given a 10 day ban fairly early in his posts.  The thing is - is that it does not "go into effect" until he logs out.  He is welcome to come back an work on his social skills.  If not, his absence will be permanent.

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## sthrnstrong

Y2k is nothing more than a forum Troll. 

If only I had a ban button

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## kyratshooter

> He was actually given a 10 day ban fairly early in his posts.  The thing is - is that it does not "go into effect" until he logs out.  He is welcome to come back an work on his social skills.  If not, his absence will be permanent.




"Social skills", I like that, very tactful.

Reminds me of th "Does not play well with others" segment of the grade school report card.

Beats the crap out of going to "Re-education Camp".

Just remember, this poor guy does not have any more problems than Most of our politicians!

Same old isues, same wrong answers, must get everyone "straightened out", if you do not agree with me there is something wrong with you.

Can you immagine what the ovel office is like, and they all agree?

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## Beans

I have spent many a night in the southern Nevada desert, farmlands/woodlands in northern Missouri and the southern Arizona Desert without seeing any lights even from the highest hill.

I have also shot "across the course" rifle matches against some old timers using the bolt action rifles, they were fast and accurate. They operated the bolt as it came down out of recoil. A lot of them were faster then the other shooters that were using the M-1 Garand or the the M-14.

I guess we travel in differnt circles. I am not ready, just yet. to give up my map and compass

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## SARKY

We are all ignorant (about something) , that is why we strive to learn more. y2k is just plain stupid! Ignorance is curable with knowledge, where as stupidity is opinionated without knowledge.

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## ravenscar

heres a suggestion, remember when your granny told you to go out into the feild and get a willow switch? he better come back with a good one!!!

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## Trabitha

> Practically anywhere in the lower  48 states, you can see lights at night, if you'll just climb the tallest tree, hill, etc. you can then just mark the line of travel, and walk there the next day or two. So, unless it's shtf, there's no point in a "survival' rifle".  Even if you're sick or hurt, a rifle is no help. you'd be way ahead to have a 1 lb .22 HG, and 5-6 lbs of survival type gear, instead of a 6-7 lb centerfire rifle and ammo.
> 
> All you really need is a satellilte phone, or just make a smoky fire and keep it going, someone will come to investigate it and save you. So you just need to keep the weather from killing you for a few days, and maybe have some water. If just lying around, you don't need food for weeks on end. I've known several men who fasted for over 30 days.
> 
> So survival, without a need to FIGHT, is long since just a fantasy. Fighting and bolt actions went out with the advent of the Garand, in 1940 or so. A bolt action can't even handle a pack of dogs, or get another hit on a fleeing cripple. It's a bad choice, and there's no reason to settle for such, when survival is the issue.


There are a massive amount of area's in the lower 48 that have no cell or satellite service at all...and if you walk up on any of those homes, you better be ready to be shot at.  Not sure where this mentality that your little corner of the world is somehow a picture perfect image of how the country really works is...well...for lack of a better word, ignorant as all get-out.

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## hunter63

Well, I glad thats over.

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## Rick

Yeah, I took that bolt action, used it like a ball bat, and beaned him in the head. As it turns out, a bolt action is a much better survival weapon than he figured.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Yeah, I took that bolt action, used it like a ball bat, and beaned him in the head. As it turns out, a bolt action is a much better survival weapon than he figured.


 Dang,,,,I hope that bolt action wasn't a Mosin.
If you beaned him with one of those clubs, you may have killed him! LOL

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## Runs With Beer

> There are people who "disagree" with the idea that the individual's freedom should be paramount, that 2+2=4, etc. Care to demo WHY what I said is wrong? You can't, or you would have done so.  It's a fact that you don't need the rifle, unless combat is an issue, and it's a fact that bolt actions suck for combat. you can not like it all you want, but you can't change the facts. It's far smarter to like what has to be, since it will be, anyway, and all your "not liking" will accomplish is to make you unhappy.


Tell that to the guy that just shot your *** 800 yards away.

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## tacticalguy

> Bolt actions can't do a thing that autos can't do better, or at least as well, and autos can do things that bolt actions can't touch. You don't need to live where you have to hunt, you see. you can hunt those critters with a used, $400 Remington autorifle, in 308, for cheap milsurp practice ammo,and fine performance with softpoints. Deer are big animals, shots beyond 300m are inhumane, the auto is plenty accurate enough for that. This 1/2 MOA bs has gone way too far. you don't eat crows or prairie dogs, and you can take all of them you want with a handgun, or with traps. ditto the deer, elk and moose, for that matter. Traps and snares work for you 24-7, and you can have scores of them working at the same time. You can only be in one place at once. 
> 
> You snare deer with a horizontal loop, 6.5-7 ft off of the ground, and hang an apple, carrot, etc, about 1 ft above the loop.  Bury half of a salt block nearby, leave sweet corn, apples, carrots there, until you see them pawing for the salt. Then just occasionally leave the food. They will frequent the area, and not care about your scent. Then, when need venison, set the cable loop.
> 
> Moose and elk are caught by foot snares, cabled to drag logs. Not as easy/effective as the deer snare, but when you catch one, you get a lot more meat. So you don't need to catch more than one a year. you need a deer per month, along with small critters and fish.


True. But i disagree about the comment on how Bolt Action's can't touch things auto's can. Bolt Actions can hit accuracy that Auto's can't. The automatic reciever on an auto makes it a little more difficult to get a dead on shot. This is why most US Military or LEO Snipers still stick with a bolt action for a sniper rifle. Sure a Barret .50 caliber is an auto that can hit distance than a normal bolt action can't touch. But you have to think that, a Barrett is a .50 BMG round that was originally designed as an anti-tank round. Plus with a bolt action, there is little to no risk of it jamming.

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## EdD270

Forgive the intrusion of a newbie.
I've lived in CA, MO, TX, NM, CO and AZ. I've travelled and/or worked in WY, MT, ID, UT, NV, MN, ND, SD, NE, IL, TN, GA, WA, OR, and others. In every state I've seen many places where there are no visible lights unless you bring one of your own. 
It may be my own poor social skills, but I have to ask. this Y2K character, was he born that ignorant or does he just work real hard at it?

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## FVR

Both auto's and bolt actions have their places.  Pers. I would prefer a bolt action over an auto for many reasons.  The top reason is conserving ammo.  There is a reason why the M-16 and many other combat rifles went from a full auto firing to a 3 round burst.

One of the other reason for my choice of the bolt action, pref. a .308 is the chamber pressures.  Full autos and semi autos can and will fail you with ammo with low pressures.  Which is very common in military surplus ammo.  

Having shot and owned a variety of diff. modern hunting and military rifles, I've found that in most cases the modern bolt rifle can use the mass produced commercial ammo along with the low pressurized military ammo.  Where, military rifles that are use to the low pressured military ammo, have many many problems with the commercial ammo with higher pressures.

Military rifles are made to shoot the lower pressurized ammo because of the massive quantity of rounds and the length of time the weapon will be in service.  You now get into the diff. headspaces and how commercial ammo, like the .308 may jam in military .308 rifles because the headspaces are set differently.

But then again I'm a Marine and not only are we Swift, Silent, and Deadly...we are also trained in One Shot One Kill.

As far as using a snare on a moose, hahahahahaha, from what I've read and seen, go ahead because they are mean bastards.

I can also take you to a few swamps in Georgia and the Pines in New Jersey where you can climb to the top of a tree and not see a thing.

Korean's eating cats, now that is a new one for me.  Funny thing is when I was living in Korea and going to the markets, I never saw a cat in a cage or one skinned and hanging.  I can't say that about the dogs as they were caged and sold as dinner fare and sometimes were hanging already gutted and skinned waiting to be purchased.  Dog does not taste that bad, matter of fact cat does not either.  We just won't talk about it here.

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## kyratshooter

> Forgive the intrusion of a newbie.
> I've lived in CA, MO, TX, NM, CO and AZ. I've travelled and/or worked in WY, MT, ID, UT, NV, MN, ND, SD, NE, IL, TN, GA, WA, OR, and others. In every state I've seen many places where there are no visible lights unless you bring one of your own. 
> It may be my own poor social skills, but I have to ask. this Y2K character, was he born that ignorant or does he just work real hard at it?


We have decided he went off his meds and got hold of a computer somewhere.  The moderators gave him a vacation and we are waiting to see if he got some therapy while he was gone.

Things were real lively for a couple of days.  I thought a couple of the Alaskan guys were going to go Matrix on him.  Reach right trough the wires and smack the crap loose from his skull.

I looked up on the comnputer about light intensity at night.  There are really only two or three places on Earth that are as dark at night as the entire world was just 150 years ago.  One place is in the Australian outback and the other is in the Nevev desert of the mid east.  That's on land.  There are probably a lot of real dark spots on the ocean.

I have seen dark so intense you could not count your fingers holding your hand against your nose.  Naturally that was happening while small yellow men were crawling through the undergrowth trying to kill me.  I was actually glad it was that dark since they were looking for me and I was not looking for them.

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## Rick

So, did they kill you? Inquiring minds want to know.

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## kyratshooter

No, but I now walk funny and twitch a lot. :Wacko: 

Ever been hidden up a hollow in Delonica, GA on a dark night?  That is the second darkest place on Earth.

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## Rick

I once listened with a smile as a guy explained in minute detail about how the VC managed to surround him and keep him pinned down with every piece of hardware known to man, including bolt actions. He breathed a big sigh and said something to the effect that it was just a horrible situation and promptly ended his story. 

Someone finally asked, "Well? What happened?" 

To which he told us he was killed. No one could have gotten out of that alive.

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## Leighman

> We have decided he went off his meds and got hold of a computer somewhere.  The moderators gave him a vacation and we are waiting to see if he got some therapy while he was gone.


Note to self: lurk more on on WSF!!!

Jeez, I cannot believe I missed this tool. 

Oh well, at least I was around way-back-when when a whack-job named
"gecko45" was all over Glocktalk. 

They have to be somehow related to one another.

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## kyratshooter

> I once listened with a smile as a guy explained in minute detail about how the VC managed to surround him and keep him pinned down with every piece of hardware known to man, including bolt actions. He breathed a big sigh and said something to the effect that it was just a horrible situation and promptly ended his story. 
> 
> Someone finally asked, "Well? What happened?" 
> 
> To which he told us he was killed. No one could have gotten out of that alive.


I must admit that me and the Big Guy Upstairs got real close that night.  It was one of those situations where you absolutely positively know you are going to die living through it is the big shock.  I took 6 soldiers into that mess and brought out 5 born again Christians and a devout Budist.

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## Sarge47

Lay off my Homie.  When he gets back I'm gonna team up with him to go bear hunting around the garbage cans of Oklahoma!  Sorry to say, though, the only single-shot .22 I could find was a bolt-action...seems they don't make auto-loaders for the single shot...go figure!   :W00t:   :Shifty:

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## crashdive123

> Note to self: lurk more on on WSF!!!
> 
> Jeez, I cannot believe I missed this tool. 
> 
> Oh well, at least I was around way-back-when when a whack-job named
> "gecko45" was all over Glocktalk. 
> 
> They have to be somehow related to one another.


Hehehehe.  We've often had a good laugh reading about him.

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## kyratshooter

According to the rules of trolling Y2K will return but not as himself.  He will assume a new identity, possibly more, and spend a good deal of time agreeing with himself in his old posts.  It is apparent he has done this often due to running out of good names and using a ten year old moniker of a previous false alarm.

After gaining a "following", he will insert himself as the mentor of himself (like being your own granpa) figuring there is strength in numbers.  He will use his "crew" to attack anyone that disagrees with him thinking the moderators will not ban multi party instigators.  (You can't get us all!)

I expect Y2K to have a great deal of fun playing with himself when he gets off the ban list.  He will be racing from one computer to another registering new members at a flurried pace.

A 10/22 full auto in .22 short with an SOG multitool screwed to the stock will then be declared the perfect survival weapon.

He did not mention anything about an assault "wheelbarrow" did he?

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## Rick

If multi-party instigators were to arrive then we would simply declare a Broken Arrow. The internet would then respond by dropping 7 foot snares and bolt action rifles directly on top of us. It would be every member for themselves until the smoke cleared.

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## crashdive123

> According to the rules of trolling Y2K will return but not as himself.  He will assume a new identity, possibly more, and spend a good deal of time agreeing with himself in his old posts.  It is apparent he has done this often due to running out of good names and using a ten year old moniker of a previous false alarm.
> 
> After gaining a "following", he will insert himself as the mentor of himself (like being your own granpa) figuring there is strength in numbers.  He will use his "crew" to attack anyone that disagrees with him thinking the moderators will not ban multi party instigators.  (You can't get us all!)
> 
> *I expect Y2K to have a great deal of fun playing with himself* when he gets off the ban list.  He will be racing from one computer to another registering new members at a flurried pace.
> 
> A 10/22 full auto in .22 short with an SOG multitool screwed to the stock will then be declared the perfect survival weapon.
> 
> He did not mention anything about an assault "wheelbarrow" did he?


Nope.  Not gonna do it. :Innocent:

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## CoyoteBC

I live in a country that is virtually empty of people.
80% of our population lives within 200 miles of the Canada/US border.
You don't need to go far to not see lights

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## Rick

I'll bet some folks live 250 miles from the nearest road, too. Ah, never mind. Wrong country.

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## CoyoteBC

> Alaska Hunting Guide use CRF Mausers with converted safety, or pre 1964 Winchester Model 70's.


I guess all those guides that wanted a powerful cartridge in a reliable no-fail rifle were just plain wrong.
Better to have an auto jam on you in the windy/sleeting weather when that brownie comes charging out of the bush.
I wish my model 70 338 winmag was CRF

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## CoyoteBC

> I'll bet some folks live 250 miles from the nearest road, too. Ah, never mind. Wrong country.


Get far enough north and I wouldn't be surprised.
When I was a kid I lived in a mining town that had a total of 7 miles of road.   The only way in was by boat or float plain, however the nearest town was only about 50 miles away and they had a road.  :Smile:

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## Sarge47

Y2k's "10 days" were up yesterday, yet, according to his profile page he hasn't even been back on since he was given the "time-out." (Nov. 12th.)  That means he hasn't even been around to read all of our remarks.  Now I'm depressed; I was so looking forward to our hunting trip together!   :Saddam:   :jango:

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## kyratshooter

He was harassing another forum before the electrons stabilized over here.

Here's a scary thought;  perhaps he found a survival forum where they accepted and agreed with him!

It's sort of like going over to the scary part of survivalboards and realizing that there are dozens of psychos operating in coordinated devience.

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## crashdive123

> Y2k's "10 days" were up yesterday, yet, according to his profile page he hasn't even been back on since he was given the "time-out." (Nov. 12th.)  That means he hasn't even been around to read all of our remarks.  Now I'm depressed; I was so looking forward to our hunting trip together!


He probably doesn't have access to the school computer over the Thanksgiving break.

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## kyratshooter

> He probably doesn't have access to the school computer over the Thanksgiving break.


That or his mother caught him and he is on computer restriction at home too.

I really think Y2 was an adult.  He was too articulate to be a teen, and it takes years of narcisistic ego stroking to become that big an A-hole.  

And he never took a break from the computer.  It was as if he sat waiting for replies to his posts and had nothing else to do.  He had a reply to any post almost before the send button was hit.

Heck, I'm a retired widower but even I take a nap, feed the cat or mow the yard occasionally!

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## Rick

Just don't get those chores mixed up. Mowing the cat would be bad. Feeding the yard would be okay, however.

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## canid

we only have one bathroom here; i feed the lawn all the time.

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## Rick

It's a tell tale sign when the grass turns brown and you can read CANID in cursive.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> It's a tell tale sign when the grass turns brown and you can read CANID in cursive.


.....and it's also dang impressive, when it's followed by his real name. Bartholameu Alexander Wifflestein.........the third. :dissolve:

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## crashdive123

Yeah, but whose handwriting is it? :Innocent:

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## kyratshooter

The Boss will not condone skipping supper or excessive mowing.  She dosen't care much for vaccuming either.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## BENESSE

Kudos to kyrat for knowing who the boss is.
That's half the battle right there.

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## Beans

My Wife and I went to a cowboy poetry gathering a couple of months ago.  This old rancher, he said he was 80 years old and looked it. He was not spouting poetry but telling tales of his ranching experience.

He stated he had lived on a ranch for over 70 years and he and his wife decided that it was time to move to town as he was getting to old to do ranch work.

He related the most trouble he had ever been in was after he moved into town. He stated he was working around the yard and felt a tremendous to relieve himself. So without thinking about it,  he just urinated in the front yard.  It was something he had been doing for over 70 years.

He said it took *just* 15 minutes for the local police to come talk to him and explain that he was in town and couldn't do that.

Someone else that knew him stated it was a true story. 

Most everyone in the audience, farmers ranchers and cowboys laughed with him not at him, because they could relate to using the outdoors the same way.

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## 10mm_Bob

Man, I'm totally bummed that I missed this thread when it was active!  I think that winner was just in here trolling though.  No way I believe anyone that dumb can handle a firearm without shooting himself.  

A point that I didn't see anyone mention though was the fact that most autos do not tolerate dirt and grime nearly as well as a bolt or revolver.  You drag most autos through the mud, and they're done.  That's a big deal when you spend a lot of time in the Southeastern swamps.  Not only that, but it's a heckuva lot easier to clean the revolver or bolt too!  The last thing I want to be messing with in camp is disassembling an auto to clean it.  Anyone who disagrees has probably never had a spring go flying off into the bushes, or dropped a part.  Simplicity rules in the sticks as far as I'm concerned.  I'll take as few parts as possible, ease of cleaning, ultimate durability/reliability, and superior accuracy any day over Y2K's spray-and-pray methods with exotic firearms.  I doubt that tool has ever ventured out of his back yard.

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## ravenscar

> If multi-party instigators were to arrive then we would simply declare a Broken Arrow. The internet would then respond by dropping 7 foot snares and bolt action rifles directly on top of us. It would be every member for themselves until the smoke cleared.


so break out the guillie suit and hide by the creek? sounds good to me

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## Sourdough

Well, I picked up my new "Bolt Action" rifle last night, which will factor into my survival engagements. The .375 H&H Magnum.

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## 10mm_Bob

> Well, I picked up my new "Bolt Action" rifle last night, which will factor into my survival engagements. The .375 H&H Magnum.


Nice!  My dad had one.  Serious ballistics on that beast!

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## glockcop

Now that I have been ''tuned up" on proper "survival'' hardware, I'm gonna go sell my bolts,single shots, and levers on the street corner knowing that they have all been declared "useless" trash by the all knowing Y2K God Man! I feel so liberated now that I know better. Thanks for the thread. The more I read from this fella, the more I question his grip on reality. Gotta go scrub my eyes out after reading this stuff. Sorry to come back and be so critical of his views, but jezzz. Is he for real? Just sayin'. I obviously am not alone in my assessment. I'm gonna behave now, I promise  :Whistling: . Yall take care.

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## BENESSE

> I'm gonna behave now, I promise . Yall take care.


You better _not_! We missed you just the way you were.

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## glockcop

> You better _not_! We missed you just the way you were.


Thanks, I pre she ate dat.

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## hunter63

> so break out the guillie suit and hide by the creek? sounds good to me


Then build your self a free stone house in a couple of days, right.

It least now I know why the grass always grows green just off the deck on the porch...............

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