# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  Alone Season 2 on History Channel

## WeekendWarrior

I see Alone Season 2 is coming up soon.  They just aired Alone: Making the Cut which is Season 2 episode 0, and season 2 episode 1 airs April 21.

Location looks to be the same as before.

It Will be interesting to see what people learned from the first season.

It looks like the 10 item gear list most of them picked were fairly similar.

All but one chose emergency rations.  All but one chose the gill net. Though he took a hammock which he claims he can use as a gill net.

A couple chose 2 sets of emergency rations packs.

Will be interesting see how these 10 do.

I would be so tempted to forgo the emergency rations to take extra tools to help gather food.

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## WalkingTree

Ooh, can't wait can't wait. Is a poor substitute for being able to do more myself...but a vicarious substitute nonetheless.

I have to admit - I would be tempted to opt for some extra emergency rations myself. Whatever I'd sacrifice for it I'd surely miss, but my reasoning is that in the very beginning you have to achieve so much, and you can see on most of these shows that what kills them and tries to sabotage the rest of their time is that they run out of energy and good mood early, and that makes it such a struggle to do the basic things that they either still haven't done initially or continue to need afterwards. I would just consider betting on the approach that, though I'd be a tool or two short, I am able to hustle and get established in that initial way because I have just a little more food and/or water to get me over that hump.

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## hunter63

One of the cast in Season 2 is a member here......although he hasn't posted since 2012.
Pict....
Or real name Dave McIntyre
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f....php?1481-Pict

Bio's for cast..
http://www.history.com/shows/alone/cast

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## kyratshooter

I am waiting to see how long it takes for someone to pick an extra tarp and use it completely for water gathering.

Rains 2 days out of three, so wet you can't start a fire with a road flare, but everyone is dehydrating for lack of drinking water when all they have to do is dig a hole and spread a tarp.

I would also like to see someone build a real shelter.  No one has done that yet.  They throw together an "overnight survival hut" and fight the wildlife until they whine out and go home.  

If you are staying in bear/wolf country for the long haul why not take a couple of days to build a real trapper's cabin and use the tarp for a roof instead of the whole shelter.    What else do you have to do for the next two months?

I wonder how many of them packed on an extra 20 pounds for this effort?  That was what the last winner attributed his success too.  An extra 20 pounds will give you 2 weeks mobile food reserve.

I'm good for a month myself.

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## Mischief

I rooting for Dave and think he can make it all the way.

I knew he could do it . WAY TO GO MAC

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## crashdive123

Great to see that Dave is in it.  Hope he does well.

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## Grizz123

looks like a good cast, I hope the editing is better than last year

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## Batch

I hope Mac does well also. Looking forward to the second season.

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## WalkingTree

Ok, for the fun of it and to see if I'm any good at making such a judgement, I looked over things to try and make a prediction of who would do well and who'd drop earlier. But I don't feel that I have much to go on. I won't be able to see the first episode when it's first aired, and I'd want to at least see the first before trying to make any predictions. It seems hard to get much of a read on things just on what I see at history channel's site. So those are my excuses if I'm wrong, which I very easily could be. (I'm too lazy to search for any self-made videos on you tube for more info to factor in.)

With some exceptions, I didn't pay that much attention to what each person chose for their items, and only a little more to their respective experiences or training. But otherwise I really wanted to get a read on their psychologies. Not the appearance of their enthusiasm or confidence, or anything they said necessarily in the vids on history's site, but other nuances between-the-lines.

Initially I wasn't going to try to pick one or two that I thought would go all the way. But instead I wanted to see if I could at least state which few would last a good while, and which few would drop pretty early. But on the seemingly limited info, I ended up "looking too hard" and seeing quite a few things both good and bad about several of them, and decided to instead "make up my mind" and actually try to pick, say, only two which I think would go quite a while - even end up as among the final 3 which go the longest. In the process I did develop an idea of the few who I think will drop pretty early, but I'm not going to list those.

So with all that said, these are the two which I feel at this point will be among those few who go the longest - *Justin Vititoe*, and *Jose Martinez Amoedo*. There are a couple of other "maybes", for both longest and early drops, but that's what I'm forcing myself to go with. Now let's see if my guesses are any good...let the games begin.

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## crashdive123

Mac will (David) will go far.

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## WalkingTree

Alrighty...what would I pick this time around...

1 saw
1 hunting knife
1 large (no more than 2 quart) pot, includes lid
1 slingshot/Catapult
1 small shovel
1 flint or ferro rod set
1 small gauge gill net 
1 multi-seasonal sleeping bag
2 lbs of rice or sugar and 1 lb of salt
5 lbs of pemmican (traditional trail food made from fat and proteins)

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## WalkingTree

Btw...seems funny to me that they bother to call the pot a _large_ pot, but then specify 'no more than 2 quarts'. Why put the word 'large' in there?

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## kyratshooter

I think that a couple of the women might surprise everyone this cycle.

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## crashdive123

Most of them seem to have their heads screwed on straight......most.  I question a few of the choices, but they would be based on my experience, not theirs.  Wish them all luck.  Maybe the winner lasts a year.

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## WalkingTree

> I think that a couple of the women might surprise everyone this cycle.


Originally I had Nicole Apelian in my prediction as one of those who I thought might go the furthest. But Mary Kate Green as one who I thought would drop out the earliest. But I eventually changed my mind in both cases.

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## WalkingTree

Arg. I've since went back and watched through season one, out of impatience and some boredom while waiting. I ended up remembering the mindset that might be required to make some kind of prediction for two. Except it still doesn't seem to help. Have so little to go on.

(Btw, notice the one thing common of the two who went the longest, though some thought that they were quite different in their potential - a certain kind of playfulness. While someone might think it's good in the older person, they'll be tempted to assume it's a bad trait for the younger one.)

So I looked back through the bios and vids on history's site a second time. Just a way to challenge myself to derive some fun from it. I feel like what I'm looking for is not basic skills, or just outdoorsy exposure or experience (der). General enthusiasm or optimism seems irrelevant to me as well. I'm not trying to guess who'd do well in the following areas, but instead who would do _really_ well. Who would last a _long_ time. Their emotional longevity. How each person would react to the lows and discouragements. The solitude. How they'll react to some fear or set-backs. And do they _want_ to be there. Will they 'feed off' of the experience, instead of it being a chore or spooky. And who either already understands what the reality will be like versus the idea of it, or will adjust and embrace that reality-check when they run up against it.

And then as soon as I like one of them, they seem to be hair-brained about one of their tools, or careless in how they understand that tool or it's applicability, or the importance of the concern that it would address (again, I don't mean total naivety or lack of experience, but that extra common-sense edge, or attitude edge, that will take them far). Or if I'm doubtful of one, there's that one single undeniable good thing about them glaring at me.

So along with Vititoe & Amoedo, I end up jostling again with others like Apelian, Lowe, Roberts, & Mcintyre.

McIntyre seems _very_ strong in fact, now that I paid more attention with another look-over. But I hesitated to say so since he's a liked member here apparently and I didn't initially predict him, Hence my motivation might seem suspect  :Innocent:   Therefore I should hurry up and say so now, before having the excuse of more vindicating info later. But I'm really liking Vititoe also.

So maybe I should do what I first wanted to do, just because I have almost nothing to go on. Instead of pick just two for the best bets, I'll say this -

Vititoe, McIntyre, Amoedo, Lowe, & Roberts will *all* still be there after Wilson, White, Green, & Champagne have *all* dropped out first. Apelian...I declare her as a wildcard   :Huh:

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## kyratshooter

I think I will sit back and get the entertainment value out of this one.  Especially since I am home and warm, not cold, wet, starving, scraped, bruised, battered and being hunted by predators in the darkness.

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## WalkingTree



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## finallyME

It is really hard to tell how they do until they spend a few nights there.  I think the predators are the biggest factor that separates them.

I am glad Colhane made it.  I enjoy watching his youtube channel and conversing with him on the forums. I wish him the best of luck.

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## WalkingTree

^ Last season, that one guy's mom got cancer bad right before he left, and the reality of her being gone before he was done got to him more and more - I think he'd made it much longer otherwise. Sad to see a situation like that.

But yea man, the reality of a bear, when truly helpless and vulnerable like they are with nothing but foul language, has the potential of really freaking a person out.

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## finallyME

If I remember right, all but 4 left because of being the prey instead of the predator.  I can't say I blame them... being on the menu brings a different set of possibilities.  This second season will have people who had watched the first season and hopefully prepared themselves mentally.  That one lady who spent a lot of time in the African bush might have an advantage... if she had to deal with big cats there.  Of course, the ones who have lived in Alaska might also have an advantage... if they had to live in the bush and deal with the brownies.... without a side arm.

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## Rick

I would have to sit down with the bear and the two of us go through the contract. I would try to point out if he isn't getting paid to appear on the show why even bother?

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## kyratshooter

I watched episode 1 tonight.

It appears that none of the contestants watched last years series, or did not believe what they were seeing.

The guy that was going to wrestle the bears while on his fishing trip tapped out day #1

Seems that two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan do not match an afternoon on Vancouver Island.

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## Zylumn

After watching episode 1 Still looking for a trained professional!!
Tracy looked like the closest thing to a professional in episode 1.
Jose to win ( on his extended launch bios video he explained how he preferred to bring the tools he made himself. That in itself to me gives him a intellectual advantage.)

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## hunter63

Yeah, missed that...on again at 11:00, but then again so is "Mysteries at the Museum"...choices, choices.....

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## WalkingTree

One of my top picks is already gone...*and he was actually talking about wrestling a bear??*

No way. Wrestling a bear. C'mon man.

----

Oh wait...apparently that's Desmond White, not Justin Vititoe. Whew! Didn't think I'd be that far off on my prediction attempt.

I gotta get Netflix or _something_  :Laugh:

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## WeekendWarrior

I figured someone would tap out at the first sight of a bear, I didn't think anyone would tap at the sight of bear scat.  My daughter was thinking he was going to tap since they were devoting so much time showing him doing basically nothing.

I think one of the ladies will surprise everyone and make it to the end.
Still seems to me that some of the sites are way better than the others.
I liked Justin, but question if he can catch any fish using a hammock.

Jose seems like a top 3 as does David. 

Mary seemed to take getting everything wet in stride and move on.  Not sure if she had the opening of her shelter pointing uphill letting all the runoff in?

I think Tracy's excess weight could be her biggest advantage, if it doesn't cause her too many issues and get her hurt.

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## finallyME

I haven't seen episode 1 yet, only watched the part where they showed what gear they chose.  Desmond definitely looked like the weakest.  If I only base my judgement on the little bit of film showing what they chose to bring, Jose would be my top pick.  When you bring a lot of homemade gear, that generally means you thought it out a long time ago and know how to use it.

I am still rooting for David for the win though.

But, like I said earlier, the predators on the island are what separates them the fastest.  Because of the shear number of predators there, they will all probably have an encounter within the first week.  If they can stay the first week, they will last a while.  After the first week, then it just gets down to how well they can find food.  The ones that are finding food consistently and getting fresh water consistently are the ones that will outlast everyone else.

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## WeekendWarrior

I just read that season 3 has been given the go ahead by history and that it will be filmed in South America.  Filming begins in Patagonia next month.  So I am guessing they have already picked he contestants.

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## WalkingTree

I guess they're on a roll. I can see it now...Alone season 49. Your grand children will be watching them. And people will be talking more about which seasons resulted in someone's death than anything else. Then every 5 years or so they'll have the winners of previous seasons going against each other. Cool!

Did somebody say something about a mockingjay?

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## Mischief

So far the tittle of the show should be Whining ALONE.

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## Rick

Patagonia? Hey, that guy that wants help ransacking Patagonia should sign up.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ight=patagonia

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## crashdive123

The one that tapped out first is not a surprise to me.  I did expect him to last longer than 6 hours though.  I guess bear poop is a frightening thing to step in.

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## Loneviking

I'm surprised that none of the contestants seems to have bear experience. The hotshot Firefighter and the gal from Homer, Alaska I would think would, but maybe not.  I grew up backpacking, camping and living in or near the Sierras where there are lots of bears.  They are fun to watch, very smart and very curious and amazing athletes. I've seen bears running full tilt down a bank, across a road and up a tree without slowing down. I've lived in Tahoe where bears are experts at getting into cars and opening ice chests to get food.  And strong--I've seen a bear shove a big, bear proof dumpster several feet out into the middle of a street like it was nothing.  

It's a tough environment that they are in. If you can't stay warm and dry then you're in trouble.

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## Bryceink

I love the show, but really; leaving before the first night because of bear scat?  If you are going to talk the talk regarding predators during your' introduction; Walk the walk please.  Can't wait for the next episode!

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## MCMDE4592

I'm sure some of the senior members here might be aware of Mac's Youtube channel but for any newer members he's got almost 140 videos uploaded, about half are in Portuguese but he does a very good job at engaging the views and explaining what he's doing and why. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/Colhane

cheers

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## crashdive123

He's a member here.

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## Rick

His user name is Pict on here and he has a LOT of great posts.

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## hunter63

I hear an echo....echo...echo echo........LOL

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## Zachary Fowler

Ya if your  that scared  of bears spend the first night on the beach with a big fire.  And sleep during the day.  At least for a couple  days so you dont look like such a wimp.   And have you noticed  that when  the people say i can " i dont think i can do this "  tap out very soon after.

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## WalkingTree

Poor guy. People are gonna leave a box on his work desk or on his porch, and write on the box "bear poop!"

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## kyratshooter

You must run with a much kinder bunch than I do Walking Tree.

I would return to find someone had legally changed my name to "Bear Crap", labeled my parking space and already had a new name plate on my office door.

I am certain I would have to undergo extensive plastic surgery and move!

But the poor guy is in good company.  One of the first to tap out last season was a moderator over on the Bushcraft USA forum.  I think he lost his ferro rod and was on the plane before dark that night.

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## finallyME

I got around to seeing episode 1.  I think Tracy has a real chance.  She is practically a bear herself.  Not only does she have some good food reserves... but I think because of her age and experience, that being alone won't be that big of a deal for her.  I think is said she was a grandmother.  If her kids don't live with her... then she isn't used to seeing them every day.  She will miss them, but it won't be as bad as if they were living with her and she was used to being with them every day.  If she doesn't have a husband, or partner, then she is probably used to being by herself a lot.  KYRS can speak to this from experience, and I guess Rick is probably getting used to it.  Anyways, if she is mentally able to handle the aloneness, and if she has the skills, and the extra food reserves.... like I said, she has a good chance to win.

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## finallyME

An interesting thing I noticed,  Desmond spent some effort explaining that it was a lot of money and he really wanted to win it for the money.  David, and some others, expressed little to no interest in the money.  If I remember right, Alan practically gave all his winnings to his dad... money wasn't important to him either.  

If money is why you are doing it.... the predators will help change your mind.

I don't blame Desmond for quitting so quickly.  Bears are no joke.  You really have to be used to being around them.  This is definitely an example of the difference between boots in the field and reading about it.  Another thing to think about is that I think I saw a picture of Desmond with a broken saw.

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## WalkingTree

Yes, Tracy indeed does seem hard to spook. Doesn't seem very rattled at all. And that's with me only seeing B.S. clips on you tube but not being able to see any episodes yet. At launching though, it just seemed like she'd be awkward just walking around in that environment and would bust her booty or twist an ankle. Of course, busting a booty is something they've all probably did more than once already.

And yea...being able to conceive intellectually of how things would be in reality versus theory or watching or talking, is an important "skill".

And yes again...I personally think there's a load of difference between, for example, McIntyre making it clear that's something he'd do without the money, and someone just going for the money. I always felt that you have to *want* to be there, not consider everything a chore, but instead enjoy it. Myself...forgetting the fact that I probably don't belong out there anyway and probably wouldn't do it...my attitude about the prize money is that it's simply what allows me to do it - not as a goal, but considering that I'd have to leave a job and home etc to do it, and be homeless for a few years if I lose. So some substantial compensation is simply the thing that allows me to do something that I may do anyway if money was not a factor. Heh...I'd have to be the last man standing though, and truly win it for that to all work. Might be a good thing though - no back door. No way out. I'd "have" to stay. Might have the effect of countering the awareness that you're really not stuck and can call for help and extraction anytime.

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## NightSG

> I would be so tempted to forgo the emergency rations to take extra tools to help gather food.


After one's observation last season that there's not much in the way of simple sugars, I'd be inclined to take the chocolate, rice or sugar to have a boost once the dietary change gets to be too much of a drag.  Of course, tapering down sugars beforehand, and/or learning new ways to solve the problem (Is there something growing there that can be essentially malted?  Maybe even a grass or cane that could be pressed like sorghum?) is also valid answer.

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## finallyME

> After one's observation last season that there's not much in the way of simple sugars, I'd be inclined to take the chocolate, rice or sugar to have a boost once the dietary change gets to be too much of a drag.  Of course, tapering down sugars beforehand, and/or learning new ways to solve the problem (Is there something growing there that can be essentially malted?  Maybe even a grass or cane that could be pressed like sorghum?) is also valid answer.


I would actually go the other way.  Bull kelp seems to be plentiful.  You can get carbs and fiber from that... but not much fat.  If you catch small fish and small animals... not much fat, mostly protein.  If it were me, I would change the ratio of the pemican to 80% fat 20% protein.  The more fat, the more calories.  I think anyone who didn't take pemican just didn't understand calories and made a poor decision.

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## edr730

Fat is what I would want to have more than any other food. If I was allowed, I'd be trying to figure out how I can kill one of those bears.

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## kyratshooter

Apparently hunting the big game is not allowed.  If it were the predator problem would end fast and the eating problem would end along with it. 

My experiences have been that when you are physically able/allowed to kill an animal it seems to have a 6th sense that warns it, and the prey becomes scarce, just like Desmond!

And in a REAL survival situation each and every one of them would be plotting how to kill a bear, even if it were using a fire hardened spear.  You could live for a month off one of those blackies!

Most of last years group took bows and arrows and watched them mold in the damp.  The area is rough and getting around is difficult, so hunting is pretty much a waste.  (one reason the Native Americans of this area were fish eaters and whale hunters)

This year more of them eliminated the bow and arrows and chose an extra knife or extra emergency rations, and more of them chose an axe this year than last.  Fewer of them had an extra tarp on the list this season.

Last season there was little "food gathering" except for the beach combing they did every couple of days.  Each discovery of a few calories was a special episode.

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## WalkingTree

Wouldn't killing something as big as even a small bear be quite difficult for one person to not waste a lot of it?? You can smoke/cook/dehydrate (jerk) a lot of it, sure...but in real practice, for these solo folks doing Alone, is that realistic enough?



> it seems to have a 6th sense that warns it


Ain't that the truth. How funny.

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## crashdive123

> Wouldn't killing something as big as even a small bear be quite difficult for one person to not waste a lot of it?? You can smoke/cook/dehydrate (jerk) a lot of it, sure...but in real practice, for these solo folks doing Alone, is that realistic enough?
> 
> Ain't that the truth. How funny.


If it's a matter of survival.......really survival.....I will make it last as long as I can, but my only concern for loss is missing out on food days from now.  Maybe not the most "ethical" hunting practice, but survival ain't a game, it's life of death.

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## edr730

Yes, Kyrat sometimes some animals get pretty smart about such things. And as you know some aren't so smart about such things. I'd be happy to shoot or kill a dumb one. Bears aren't as sly as deer. You can get very close if you have bait. Maybe a trail. Having bait would be a big problem though. But, it's a good rule that you can't shoot them because someone would and have a big advantage. I've only seen one episode this year and one last year. If I couldn't get a bear then I guess I'd just want to use part of the tarp for a canoe. Since that's where the food is at.

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## WalkingTree

And that reminds me of another thing I was wondering about - you can't hunt bigger animals, but if a bear is really on your butt and you manage to seriously wound it or kill it...are you gonna 'get in trouble'? (I'd worry more about staying alive than if I got in trouble for hurting or killing something.)

Also, about the extra food rations...just from knowing myself - it's smart to have extra tools and such with you, but I figure that if I'm doing a show like this and I'm not good enough to sustain myself with a knife, gill net, the other things you get, and what I'd make once I'm out there, then I have no business out there in the first place. More tools may not help, but rations to get over the hump will. Versus that first hump having to do so much that's really important and spending a lot of energy to do it, and included in that is getting food but I might not have enough time to get certain initial things done before getting water and food and before falling into that energy-hole of lethargy that is so hard to get out of once you're in it.

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## crashdive123

Theory is nice, but keep in mind that most of the participants are comfortable in "their" environment.  This is a relatively new (location and climate) experience for them.  Having the food for one or two of their items is, in my opinion very smart.  This allows them to focus on things other than procuring food initially and might quite possible be a bonus in the event that something happens.  Most brought gill nets...tide goes out.....fish trapped.....bear comes by......I doubt he will gently remove the fish, but rather take/destroy it while consuming the fish.

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## NightSG

> Apparently hunting the big game is not allowed.  If it were the predator problem would end fast and the eating problem would end along with it.


This is an "unreality" factor that I really don't care for; if a predator is also edible in a real survival situation, I'm going to do whatever I can to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak. 




> Most of last years group took bows and arrows and watched them mold in the damp.  The area is rough and getting around is difficult, so hunting is pretty much a waste.


Looks like it's also a lack of game between mouse and wolf size.  Rabbits, raccoons and opossums are good daily game for bowhunting.  Deer are tougher to take cleanly, but worth the effort if you can get one, but I don't recall any mention of them, or any sort of wild goat or sheep, either.  I was wondering if one could do a bowfishing rig, even if it did take up another item for the line.




> Fewer of them had an extra tarp on the list this season.


Presumably, after seeing season one, they realized there were enough tarps provided by default to do a pretty good shelter.

I do wonder what the rules are on "misusing" the provided items.  For example, it says they get a first aid kit with gauze and alcohol.  Could one use that in starting a fire?  What about other "lawyering" of the list, like taking a XXXXL "fleece or wool shirt" that I can easily curl up inside?  Presumably they spec out brands on the sandals so one won't weave up a pair out of several dozen yards of paracord, but I see a few other places in the list that one could have an approved garment take on an extra function or two.

"Of course all my personal photographs are printed at 20x24' on waterproof canvas."
"Why do you say that these 30 gallon socks aren't approved?"
"My optometrist signed off on a script for glasses I never wear, but that happen to be ideal for firestarting."

(Personally, I'd think some of the apparel list, rather than "you can only have this many" should be on a "we'll swap out some laundry at the regular check ins" basis.  Potentially a couple months or more with two pairs of underwear, three pairs of socks and no soap?  They'd be hosing me with bleach before they let me in the helicopter.)

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## WalkingTree

Hehehe. Unhand my fish, you bear! You gonna pay for that net?

But really...even if I might take a net with me, I'd be super tempted to instead make some tide traps (what're they called?). Would seem so easy. They had those areas where the tide comes in and out...instead of putting my net up there, I'd modify the ground and use rocks and whatever. Same as on a stream bank. Make a backwater trap. Etc.

Also, if I were to bother with a bow, I'd want some blunt tips with flu flus, instead of just the regular arrows. Can make some though anyway.

NightSG - I wondered what the heck good would a towel be, when you're so limited on items. Then I thought (except for the limitation keeping me from ever choosing it anyway) it might could be used to always physically filter water before boiling (hafta wash it several times at home first so that when you're out there you don't leach any funny stuff into your water when filtering through it.) And also you could use some part of clothing to do that anyway.

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## NightSG

> my attitude about the prize money is that it's simply what allows me to do it - not as a goal, but considering that I'd have to leave a job and home etc to do it, and be homeless for a few years if I lose. So some substantial compensation is simply the thing that allows me to do something that I may do anyway if money was not a factor.


Not sure about this one, but IIRC, most of the shows with a prize like this also have a stipend of some sort, specifically to cover the fact that most people can't just walk away for weeks or months without serious repercussions.  Presumably they'd also have admins to handle things like making sure your rent got paid on time.  (Though IMO, a part of the problem last year was that it seemed like everybody was in some sort of close relationship where they would have significant contact, every single day.  Even Lucas, being so close to his family, probably wasn't used to spending a full day without in-person human contact.  Haven't watched the intro vid to see about season 2's contestants yet, though.)

EDIT TO ADD: and now that I think of it, if Sam hadn't had that baby on the way, they might well still be shooting season 1.  Just imagine if they got a pair of previously undiscovered Matt Graham or Cody Lundin types on the show.  No close social attachments, experience being away from human contact for weeks, and the skills to thrive in a harsh environment with primitive tools.  It would just be a matter of who got mauled by a bear first, if even that.  They have to have some provisions for making sure certain things get handled for the contestants.

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## hunter63

Just want to make a couple of comments......on the comments.
I tried watching this a couple of times....found it dark, wet, and depressing...and found it hard to listen to the constant whining and the "Hey bear".

The fact the most of the population is on a phone or device constantly seems to be the worst part of this exercise.
Even most of my friends can't put down their phone, with constant texts and calls....drives me crazy...LOL

Many trips to the wild in the past many have included a trip to town...for resupply, shower, saloon, freezer plant for game and a call home from a pay phone....maybe once a week.......
No wonder these guys are "out of touch".

Next is the rules....
Its interesting that as soon as "rules" or items are decided on...most will want to extend, amend, add to and make sure any additional advantage is looked at and or tried......Kinda like life.

Anyway...carry on I just listen for the sidelines.....

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## edr730

I guess we all got our 2 cents and so I guess so do I even though I have only seen 2 episodes. 
I'm not afraid of black bears, but I  can't say I'd be comfortable with them hanging around my camp and not appearing afraid of me. On very rare occasions they have been known to attack. And as Crash points out, they can be destructive. Eating your food is a lot more annoying than taking down your bird feeder. If they annoyed me too much, I'd be setting up quite a few bent saplings and a trip line to smack them in the nose when they passed. Hopefully they'd get out of the area.  I noticed a mountain of lashing in the woods for this and many other purposes.
I would not consider anything but a domed dwelling. Some may think of it as a wigwam, but the tarp takes all the work out of it. Good for the first night and all nights and is 5 times faster. As Kyrat pointed out in another thread, it's nice to have a big dry area under a tarp. 
I'm a big sissy when it comes to being wet and cold. I would not allow that to happen. No water would ever enter my dwelling and I would not be cold. I would be too afraid of the wet and cold to let that happen. 
I want what Lowkey mentioned. Pemican with 80% fat. I'd take 100% if they'd give it to me. 
I honestly think I could do better than what I have seen. I'm not sure if my medicare would cover it though if I didn't. 
I think in a week I could have something that looked like a canoe woven from the branches and lashings from the woods. I'd drop into the eddies of the coastline what I know as minnow traps to catch fish and crabs or what ever. 
Even though I haven't seen much, it seems like a good show. Lets people like us play the part of Fog Horn Leg Horn. No no boy, yer doin it all wrong.

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## WalkingTree

> The fact the most of the population is on a phone or device constantly seems to be the worst part of this exercise.
>  Even most of my friends can't put down their phone, with constant texts and calls....drives me crazy...LOL


I don't know why - what someone else does is their biz, as long as they're not having a car wreck with me because of it - but still this bothers me anyway. There's just something so wrong about it. Anywhere I'm at in public, lots of people...but no one's talking. Nobody even looks at each other. Completely oblivious to each other's existence. Sure, sometimes they're "talking" to folks through their devices, if not just screwing around with other stuff on that device, but that's just different. It even now feels like there's a new unspoken rule of etiquette - Don't say anything casual to anyone. Not a hello, not a casual polite question. Or you're being rude. You're being "quaint" or weird. It's like they don't know what to do if you do say anything to them. We're all using these things in some way. Of course we are. They're not evil. But completely engrossed into it every time you go out among other real people such that you never notice their existence or say a single real word to other people?

Just something creepy about all that...

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## NightSG

> There's just something so wrong about it. Anywhere I'm at in public, lots of people...but no one's talking. Nobody even looks at each other. Completely oblivious to each other's existence.


I watched a table full of college kids at the diner last week sit for at least 30-45 minutes without speaking to each other, heads buried in their phones.
Sure, I was playing Candy Crush on mine, but I was alone.  I put it aside when there's someone to talk to, unless it's part of the conversation.  (Sharing photos, looking up info on the conversational topic, etc.)

FWIW, the phone is a part of my survival plan.  Even if I don't have service, OSMand has a preloaded map and GPS, and I have several reference PDFs saved.  A small battery pack gives me a few hours usage beyond what the regular battery does, and I make a point of keeping the phone as charged as practical, so I should generally have time for at least a quick refresher on whatever the priority is at the time, plus checking the map every couple hours for a few days if trying to self-rescue.

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## hunter63

Maybe still want to toss in a compass and a map?

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## finallyME

So, I saw the second episode....Spoiler alert



No one dropped out this time.  And it looked like everyone went a whole week.  The first guy is probably feeling pretty crappy knowing that all the other people lasted more than 7 days.  At least with the first season, all the ones that tapped out early had the condolences of others.  It does seem that at least 2 are in trouble.  The one guy who is a survival instructor from Utah seems to be having a hard time finding food, plus he dropped his firesteel in the fire.  This is the second guy to lose a fire steel.  I would think a good practice might be to bring one of those monster steels, and then cut it in half when you arrive and place the other half somewhere really safe.  That would give you a backup.  One of the girls also cut her hand really bad.  They ended the show right then.... I really hate that.

I am thinking that there will be some people lasting a really long time this season.

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## NightSG

> Maybe still want to toss in a compass and a map?


I generally have a compass of some sort.  Around here, a paper map isn't much of an improvement over my memory, (and the compass is mainly to keep a straight line) though when hiking in places I'm not intimately familiar with, I do carry one.




> The one guy who is a survival instructor from Utah seems to be having a hard time finding food, plus he dropped his firesteel in the fire.


Maintain the fire, use it to get some friction fire materials bone dry and wrap them in the tarp, (do the rules specifically say you can't tuck something in one of the camera cases?) and make charcloth.  Plenty of fires were lit before ferrocerium was available, even there.




> One of the girls also cut her hand really bad.


Are we talking "bleed out without stitches" bad, "cut tendon" bad, or just "this is going to be a PITA doing things one handed for a few days" bad?  If the latter, hopefully she'll stick around, keep the wound clean with boiled water, and hang in there unless it shows actual signs of infection.  




> I am thinking that there will be some people lasting a really long time this season.


Part of me wants to see a season drag on for a year or more as the finalists build themselves cabins and settle in for the long haul.

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## Zylumn

From what I have seen from last season and so far this season they concentrate episodes on people that are on the verge or are going to tap out. 
Interesting they haven't introduced Jose or Nicole yet. 
Randy losing his fire steel and not bringing fishing line or rations I see him lasting at the most 2 more weeks.
Mary Kate was getting set up nice but cut her hand (didn't look too bad) but injuries play more on the mind than body sometimes. She also set her fire steel on the log she was using to cut up wood and after she cut herself it had fallen (if lost could pose a major problem for her).
Mike is the second after "Mr tap out" that is showing emotional stress. " My heart aches from missing my wife like the time I didn't get a Christmas present at the orphanage"  Come on Mike and Man up. 
They didn't show Larry or Tracy this show so they must be crusing along fine.

So in conclusion I see possibly Randy, Mike and Mary Kate tapping out in the next 2 or 3 episodes.

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## finallyME

I don't see Mike tapping for a while.  He is eating good.  I think he is the only one that is making video of his thoughts so they are playing those more.

The last think Mary Kate said was that she can't move her thumb.  That could be because she cut the tendon.  It is right in that area.  I think she is going to tap soon.

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## Zylumn

Mike expressed last episode he is experiencing chest pain anxiety. While not a condition that is serious it could lead to future complications. He is experiencing this at day 5 or 6; mild depression and anxiety should be weeks or more away. Every day should become marginally more difficult for all participants. For Mike to have longevity he will need to work on controlling his chest pain anxiety. 
How hard it hit him and how well he adapts and compartmentalizes it is still to be determined. 
Again I say Mike taps in the next 2/3 episodes.

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## WalkingTree

> Part of me wants to see a season drag on for a year or more as the finalists build themselves cabins and settle in for the long haul.


*chuckle* I must admit, something about me that some in here wouldn't be surprised at...that's what I'd try to do. If it weren't for certain things like if I ended up needing dental attention or vitamins I wasn't good enough to get out there, or just got really sick, at some point I'd even trek to somewhere else and hide so they couldn't find me again. Create some signs to suggest that a bear dragged me off or something. Then months or years later if someone finds me, can pretend that because of a dangerous animal encounter I got separated from my stuff (strategically leave certain things but take certain other things) and got lost, and was just trying to survive nonetheless not knowing what else to do.

...well, no, probably not. That would be crazy. But it's a fun fantasy.




> ...she can't move her thumb. That could be because she cut the tendon. It is right in that area


That would really suck - cutting your tendon.

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## WalkingTree

Finally got to see the first episodes. Yippee!

God that place is beautiful. I can _smell_ it. I can _feel_ it. The air. Dirt. Humidity. Wow.

(The site wants me to enter some passkey, according to my service provider. But I only use over-the-air and don't want to screw with anything else. Just ain't that in love with T.V.) But now people can watch the first 2 shows. (What's up though with not being able to see "episode 0"?)

I change my mind about Tracy. She's moved way up on my list. Seems much less ditsy than many we've seen, and very stable psychologically. Stark contrast to Desmond - hears a bird call and suddenly the forest is haunted and terrorizes him. There's a bear outside when Tracy's in bed? Pfff, who cares. Silly bear, tricks are for kids.

I feel ya, David. My natural expression always makes me look like I'm mad too. But I'm not. Hope you get your bigfoot sighting.

That one dude better learn how to fish. Was that Randy?

I'm feeling like all the ones who start talking too much...in a brooding way, that is...about missing people, or lose flipping firestarters and talk about being defeated because of that - it's like they're intentionally self sabotaging or already decided they need to leave, but are weaving together a cover story for it. Or just don't consciously realize yet that they've decided to tap.

Except for Mary - I'm gonna be pissed if she's hurt bad, cause she seems like a winner. Changed my mind about her too. But, the whole time she's splitting that wood like she was, I'm thinking "you're gonna cut your hand...you're gonna cut your hand...why the heck are you doing it like that?! Ain't you got no sense girl??" And pow. Cut her hand.

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## Zachary Fowler

Totaly got to cut your  fire starters top 2 inches of and hang it around your neck.  Then you still have 6 inches left if you get the one of the big  ones.  And you could mount it in a footlong stick, tied and pitch glued in place so u cant misplace it so easly.   Not to mention bank your fire when you leave it so yoy can uncover good coals sill going.  I dont see why your fire should ever go out.   

And its been a weak why is everyone  still living in temporary  shelters.  If your planing on being there a while id want to build somthing i could realy get out of the rain and take my wet stuf of in.  Somwhere with anuf room to hang my nicer up to dry.

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## kyratshooter

Why have they not built better shelters?

Possibly because they don't know how!  They are bush crafters and survivalists, geared to the temporary weekend shelter. 

All of their expertise is in temporary makeshift shelters and building any real security is beyond their abilities. Did you not notice the pretty wigwams of twigs and leaf piles they were proudly showing off in the introductory episode? 

It is possibly because all their previous work has been done in parks and areas where only temporary shelters are allowed, so the concept of engineering for a long term shelter is not in their mental tool kit.  I have run into this thought process before.

At any rate, I can see no work done for a week of site occupation.  they should have jumped on that quickly before their energy levels dropped, or while they had the emergency food rations to sustain their work.

I can guarantee you that by day two I would have had a log wall between me and the bears, cougars and wolves.  It might have taken another day or two to chink it in but the logs walls would have been there. 

I have worked at several historic sites where two or three of us would have a cabin walled up and roofed in a weekend.  The walls do not have to be but 5'-6' tall.  These guys even have the advantage of using one of the tarps as a roof.  They could have put up a 6'x8' trappers cabin in two days, even working alone.

And it does not require flat ground.  You can level out two footer logs on a couple of tree stumps or piles of rocks and set stills close enough to level to run floor logs and build up from there. 

Last season no one built a real shelter either, and they remained miserable and wet the entire series.  When fall sets in they are going to have 50mph winds beating those tarps to death.

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## Zylumn

Kyratshooter I have thought about this and have come to the conclusion that there has to be rules against such "permanent" shelters. Over 2 years of 20 "" highly trained survivalists and only 1 last year started to build a log structure but mysteriously a quarter the way through quit siting a lame excuse. It doesn't make sense with an axe and saw something solid could rapidly be constructed. Ya it could just be laws of the Natives who own the land not wanting 20 cabins built on their land.

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## WalkingTree

> not wanting 20 cabins built on their land.


This, I could understand. Whoever's land it is from one time to another, all the little scars left behind by a t.v. show and all the little cabins, might be something that someone is concerned about.

However, a log cabin is not the only option, even though this reasoning might extend to all forms of shelter. I myself would certainly have something started worth living in and it wouldn't be a log cabin. Nonetheless, this would be extremely disappointing.



> rules against such "permanent" shelters


It means that they're not telling us everything. And I wonder if they tell the participants before they get approved to be on the show. It means that we're going to continue to be increasingly bored and disappointed by this show. It means that it is little more than Naked & Afraid - they got some "stuff" instead of being naked and barehanded, but they're really not supposed to do anything after all except just hang on as long as they can. Hang on, helplessly, instead of *doing* anything. It means that it's little more than Dual Survival - they're not supposed to do much more than those guys did, trying to get rescued, except that they draw it out, helplessly, instead of ever *doing* anything. It means that they effectively lie to everybody...drum up a lot of excitement over some people choosing their limited items, saying that they have to survive out in the wild with those items, and then tell them that they can't really hunt anything except freaking squirrels or grub worms, and that they can't build anything except for stringing up their puny tarps and huddling up underneath them with a handful of freaking leaves.

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## crashdive123

TV shows like this are aired for entertainment in the hopes of drawing viewers and increasing the advertising revenue.  They are not put in place to "tell us everything" and educate us.

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## NightSG

> This, I could understand. Whoever's land it is from one time to another, all the little scars left behind by a t.v. show and all the little cabins, might be something that someone is concerned about.


Seem like if they can afford all the gear and a half mil prize, they ought to be able to buy a couple hundred acres of less-desirable land somewhere and sell it off afterward.  And maybe bribe their way to ten "unlimited primitive hunting/trapping" permits each year.  That's not likely to destroy an ecosystem anywhere that isn't already insanely delicate.




> It means that they're not telling us everything. And I wonder if they tell the participants before they get approved to be on the show. It means that we're going to continue to be increasingly bored and disappointed by this show.


Yup.  I really wish they'd just go ahead and publish the whole rule book on their site.  Some things might make a lot more sense if we actually knew the underlying constraints.  People don't quit watching football after they've read all the rules.

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## edr730

I wouldn't mind having a log cabin. If I was the horse who was dragging all the logs through the woods, I wouldn't use anything but cedar. It's lighter, straight and can be limbed and cut far easier. Any big logs just wouldn't be possible. I saw some cedar in an episode in what little bit I saw. Bark of cedar can be used for shingles too although thin. The one problem is that cedar and bears like the same kind of area. Aspen or popple might be ok if I found a higher area with many trees of the same size that I wanted. Usually that occurs where loggers have been in the past in old cuttings and I don't think they log there. Aspen, when green, is heavy and full of water too. I wouldn't start if all I had was hardwood to drag and cut. One foot diameter by 8 ft  hardwood log I don't think I could drag two feet if at all.  A six inch diameter by 8 ft hardwood log I could drag a fair distance, but I don't want to do too much of that and I don't want to cut, saw or limb many of them either. Maybe 4 inch would be possible.  If all the conditions were just right it could make a nice permanent shelter. I can see a lot of those tarps getting tore up as well since many probably don't know how to be careful with them in the wind.

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## edr730

There might be basswood there. That grows in clumps of trees and it is usually straight and not that heavy. Maybe soft maple which grows in the same kind of clumps and isn't bad to work with. It could be possible with the right trees all together to build a little cabin.

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## NightSG

> Kyratshooter I have thought about this and have come to the conclusion that there has to be rules against such "permanent" shelters. Over 2 years of 20 "" highly trained survivalists and only 1 last year started to build a log structure but mysteriously a quarter the way through quit siting a lame excuse. It doesn't make sense with an axe and saw something solid could rapidly be constructed. Ya it could just be laws of the Natives who own the land not wanting 20 cabins built on their land.


I wonder what the actual limitation is; building something too hard to remove later, or cutting too much live wood.

I think my first step after the basic tarp shelter would be a fairly solid wickiup.  Take a few days if needed to get a rock solid frame, some greenery over it for insulation and to reduce direct heat on the tarp from the firepit inside, then dismantle the first shelter and use the tarp for a waterproof layer, with more branches over the tarp to protect from hail or falling branches, and keep it from flapping in every little breeze.

Not sure I'd really want to go to a cabin after that.  Just the psychological boost of having a real structure with enough room to move around in and get some work done and clothes dried when it's pouring rain should make a pretty big difference in how long I'd be willing to stay.

Beyond that, skip the bow and make an atlatl and darts on site, if there's any sort of cane or straight saplings in the area.  Sling too, if you have the spare cordage.  Not likely to get much use out of them, but at least you free up a spot on your items list.  A sturdy spear or two as well; pointy sticks and the skill to use them put us at the top of the food chain.  Fish spear as much to pass some down time in a useful manner as to supplement the gill net's catch.  Springpole snares near camp, both to get food and to surprise any bear that triggers one accidentally.  (Small game size, not bear size; I'm just thinking it might startle the bear into running away when the pole pops up.  Doing it a few times on successive nights could encourage them to stay away.)

Anybody else notice the Utah survival instructor is using the exact same knife Matt Graham used on Dual Survival?  Wonder how much of his training is from Matt.  If that's the case, he might be a long-timer...if he'll settle down and settle in.

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## WalkingTree

It's possible that the kind of shelter that I'd prefer to build anyway (2.0) would be permitted by their rules (except the 'fence'?). Though of course I don't know.

My shelter "one-point-oh" (1.0) would be a quick debris hut, incorporating my tarp, which doesn't need precise engineering and isn't too picky on what material is required nor processing that material. Just a decent amount of it. In the very beginning, what I'd spend possibly more effort and time on is the beginnings of a type of fence, and preparing the general site/immediate vicinity. The fence would take on an equally immediate and rudimentary form initially, intended to be upgraded when I could do so. It would eventually be an intermeshed affair of certain kinds of brush/timber, and a kind of caltrop/hedgehog - 3 sticks, 6 pointed, about 3 feet high...eventually many of them overlapping slightly with each other and loosely connected to each other with some simple unprocessed natural cordage. (There'd be other features to the 'fence' too, like some punji features, and maybe a cordwood-&-mud wall around the entrance of shelter 2.0 to come later, forming a courtyard within the larger perimeter fence.) The fence would create a yard around my shelter which homogenizes and reduces habitat for many smaller creatures, deters larger ones or gives me response time for them, and allows me to work on projects without something sneaking up from behind me so easily, to accumulate, store, and protect materials and projects, and to have little smoldering fires (even anti-rain fire structures) without starting a forest fire and to even possibly work overnight occasionally - napping during the day.

I think that I'd plan on/scout for a second site also, specifically for game processing and cooking/dining (take cooked food back to main shelter?), separated from my primary/sleeping site and hopefully located close to flowing water for disposal of animal remains etc (?). This site would really be just an area of ground prepared like a 'yard', with it's own 'fence' of sorts; stone fire pit, working surfaces, and _some_ water containment options always already there; in addition to trying to otherwise work in a 'clean' manner (leaving no remains) I'd always spread ashes all over everything before leaving each time. The components which make this 'yard' can be relocated, re-making it elsewhere if needed sometimes.

Shelter 2.0 would be a type of A-frame which doesn't need any major logs, would not use my tarp, almost doesn't require any lashing (cordage), doesn't require the engineering involved in leaf-weaving or bark shingles for rain-shedding, wouldn't need clay for being some wattle/daub project (though I'd consider incorporating this feature)...but it would be very warm, very secure against mosquitos, secure against large predators in combination with other things, would shed rain and keep me dry, and very stable possibly against winds up to 50 mph without parts of it falling apart.

Considering all the concerns, and options, for the 'pooping dilemma'...I've thought that I might just make some kind of woven-stick basket, used in combination with simple dirt thrown into it during operation - and I'd just poop into it within the relative security of my 'courtyard', then carry it out and empty it somewhere each time into a hole far away or flowing water. Cleaning the butt while at home, or at the 'emptying site'...I dunno.

But again, by the time that my projects begin to accumulate, the show producers might come in and say "You have to stop making stuff. Though you're trying to compete with others in how long you can survive out here, you can't actually do anything or use the stuff we gave you to achieve this goal." So I don't know.

I might maintain a 'dummy' camp for the one that the producers are aware of...in actuality being a first shelter (1.0) which I simply pretend to use afterwards for appearances...while instead having my real 'homestead' off somewhere else that they'd never stumble upon.

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## hunter63

Wow....Should have signed up for the show...sounds like a plan.

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## WalkingTree

Pfff...HAY no. They'll probably tell me that I can't do most of what I explained there ^. And I have my areas of ignorance, like with plants for example. In this Alone, the red algae bloom that keeps them from eating mussels...yea, the producers told them about it, but otherwise I'd just start gobbling em up, and then game over, I'm dead. And that's assuming that I'd have the knowledge about things like mussels in the first place.

I feel like I couldn't even identify what fish are unsafe to eat...like there's something that'd be bad for me but I wouldn't know it. Or how you need to prepare some animal or plant...so either losing it as an option for not knowing, or trying it but end up dead for not knowing.

I have zero immediately obvious experience or credentials anyway...no show in it's right mind would approve me to be on it.

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## WalkingTree

Though I guess I have to admit, if forced to make a choice...if money and leaving home and job wasn't a problem because a show provided some compensation whether I 'win' it or not, and even though I hate how something like this really happens because it's a t.v. show...I might still do it, simply because that'd be my chance to get some real experience to this extent - whether I did well or not, the fact that I even did it in reality would certainly do _something_ for me. I wouldn't be doing it to 'test' myself, but just to learn in the first place. Some real experiential knowledge.

If I had much of a notice, and knew where it'd be, I'd just try to crash-course myself on a few reliable basics concerning knowledge, then just play it safe in those areas once out there.

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## Zylumn

WalkingTree
The fence would create a yard around my shelter which homogenizes and reduces habitat for many smaller creatures, deters larger ones or gives me response time for them, and allows me to work on projects without something sneaking up from behind me so easily, to accumulate, store, and protect materials and projects, and to have little smoldering fires (even anti-rain fire structures) without starting a forest fire and to even possibly work overnight occasionally - napping during the day.

I totally agree with setting a perimeter around your site. Wood, brush and your urine works. Animals know when they are encroaching on your territory and can easily be scared off as they are on the defensive. This works also as a deterrent for them coming back. 
My experience is the Rockies NW Canada with Grizzly, Black , Cinnamon bears, Coyotes, Mountain Lions, Badgers etc. Defending and protecting your main camp is the most important. I have NEVER considered eating and cooking apart from my main camp. If that separate area is not protected it will get torn up and if bears "etc" tear it up without consequences they WILL be back and they will be back with greater confidence. Just my opinion and what has worked for me, (mind you I have always had a gun)

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## WalkingTree

Zylumn

- With a perimeter, working food in your main site isn't a problem? The perimeter along with other methods are good enough to persuade bigger animals to respect your space, even when they frequently smell your food?

- My secondary food-processing site is only meant to "work" while I'm there. If it's torn up while I'm gone, there's nothing really to tear up, and it can be quickly re-made next time I need it. And I won't leave any remains and would spread fire ash around, etc...would anything have any motivation to mess with it? (it's never left to be "closed up" so something would have to mess with it in order to "get inside" of the yard area.) _Does this thinking apply? Would it work this way?_

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## edr730

I think the first thing I would do when I got off the boat would be look for a real big pine tree. I'd get up it and look

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## Zylumn

> Zylumn
> 
> Does this thinking apply? Would it work this way?[/I]


It does! You sound like a smart fellow I am sure you could think it out and make it work. 
Now me I'm an old fart and not gifted with a whole lot of excess energy. What energy I have I would apply it to one place with my little bit of excess energy make that place better and safer. 
Bears have such a keen sense of smell if food has been in a spot it will know it no matter how well you clean up. 
We come back to our camp one time after a day of riding and a bear had broken a back window out of a SUV and pulled out our sealed cooler of food. There was 2 other Vehicles there that weren't touched our tent and perimeter not touched (mind you we did have a solar fence we used for the horses around our perimeter) but from the size of the tracks it might have enjoyed the shocks.

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## NightSG

> - My secondary food-processing site is only meant to "work" while I'm there. If it's torn up while I'm gone, there's nothing really to tear up, and it can be quickly re-made next time I need it. And I won't leave any remains and would spread fire ash around, etc...would anything have any motivation to mess with it? (it's never left to be "closed up" so something would have to mess with it in order to "get inside" of the yard area.) _Does this thinking apply? Would it work this way?_


IMO, the "secondary food processing site" wouldn't even really be a specific place.  More like wherever I got back to dry land after checking the gill net, or just far enough from any herbivore-targeted traps to not scare them off with a gut pile.  Scoop out enough beach sand to make a fire pit just big enough for the cooking project at hand, and bring fire from the main fire to cook.  Eat there.   Ideally, prep, cook and eat below the high-tide mark whenever possible so the ocean takes care of the cleanup.  (Bonus; you'll be chumming the area around your gill net.)

In prep for the rainy season, yes, I'd likely have any semi-stable food (dried fish, dried seaweed, nuts, etc.) stored near enough to the shelter that I could drag it in pretty quickly before holing up to wait out the weather, so I would probably also do the urine perimeter and at least some sort of brush fence.  Remember to pee as high as you can, since the height of the scent marks on the trees is part of what indicates the size of the carnivore that marked it.  If you're squeezing it out for a 6' high hit, most smart animals will back way off.

Clean water storage and rainwater collection would be another issue to address; if you've got a month of solid rain, you don't want to be wandering out to the stream for more water, gathering extra firewood to boil it, etc. while nature is dumping ice cold potable water all over you.  A small catchment (Clay lined?  Cut off a piece of tarp for plastic lining?  Look for plastic sheeting/bags on the beach?) at one wall and a pile of pine needles will set you up to make tea on demand without leaving the shelter.  Could even do a second catchment lined with the needles so all you have to do for your morning tea is scoop it out and warm it up.  Remember the British survival tactic of making tea early and often; it's a psychological boost in that it reminds you that you have fire, good water and the ability to make something better from what the environment gives you.  Ideally, when the weather gets bad, it would be best to sit it out for days at a time, leaving the shelter only for potty time, and that as naked as you can handle in the cold rain to keep your clothes dry.  To me, the failing point of Alan's shelter last year was not having room to do anything but lay there; I want at least a covered area to change clothes and dry them over a fire.  A smaller sleeping area is easier to heat, but an area where you can keep dry and busy with small, useful tasks (making cordage, fletching arrows or atlatl darts, braiding a sling, repairing clothes, carving bowls, making a pump drill in case your firesteel gets lost, etc.) will help fight the boredom that leads to despairing about your situation.

I think the one thing I'd really want along that isn't on the list, though, is a Bible.  I'd be fine with them making sure all the pages are still accounted for at the end, but sitting out weeks of rain might finally be the motivation I need to read the Old Testament straight through.

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## finallyME

> I think the one thing I'd really want along that isn't on the list, though, is a Bible.  I'd be fine with them making sure all the pages are still accounted for at the end, but sitting out weeks of rain might finally be the motivation I need to read the Old Testament straight through.


You can always get a bible on waterproof paper, which isn't all that flammable.  That should pass the no  burn test.  Plus, you won't have to worry about it getting wet.

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## kyratshooter

Meanwhile, back at the ranch,,

Would anyone like to attend the Boulder Outdoor Survival School?  That's where Randy teaches those month long survival courses.

You know, he's the guy that sets one deadfall trap in sight of his tent in an area with no reported small game, does not know how to fish, and burns up his ferro rod. 

What we are seeing out of this "survival school instructor" is pure incompetence. 

I do not think some of these "experts" are even competent in their home environments.

----------


## hunter63

At least they can get off work...if they have a job....and can just take off with out DW getting pizzed....divorcing them and taking all their stuff while they are gone....

Carry on this speculation is interesting.
On Naked and Afraid....you just freeze and starve for 3 weeks.....Alone guys....at least these guy can say they took their special knife.....

----------


## kyratshooter

Did it appear that a lot of the families could not wait for Dad to leave on the big adventure?

Seems the desire to get rid of husband/dad for up to a year with the possibility that he will be eaten by a wolf/bear/cougar, or possibly starve, is being defined as "support".

And like Hunter said, I do not see any of them having a "real job" in their bios.

----------


## NightSG

> You know, he's the guy that sets one deadfall trap in sight of his tent in an area with no reported small game, does not know how to fish, and burns up his ferro rod.


Sam spent a long time eating rodents from his close-in deadfalls, so there's a possibility of some real benefit there.  Plus, we don't really know what he's done with the ~200 hours that aren't on the show.  He might have done that one just for ease of filming and/or the others ended up on the cutting room floor.  Even if we assumed the contestants only roll cameras for 8 hours a day, that would mean each one generates 56 hours of footage per week.  Realistically, they're probably running 2-3 cameras at a time when interesting stuff is going on, coming up with more like 12-18 total hours a day.  That would be over 1100 hours a week from the 9 remaining, and we get less than an hour combined.

Granted, some of that is 3 angles of Tracy waddling along a beach, or an hour of Nicole picking her nose after forgetting to turn the camera off, but it's safe to assume there's a lot of relevant footage that still gets cut.

Not a lot of fishing opportunities in the southern Utah deserts, either.

----------


## NightSG

> And like Hunter said, I do not see any of them having a "real job" in their bios.


Reread them; sounds like Nicole essentially retired from a couple of "real jobs" with a PhD in biology and co-owns a safari company.  Mary Kate is a fitness trainer after retiring from fighting wildfires.  Justin seems fairly fresh out of the Army, so survival training  looks to be more a part of "finding himself" than a career he's been milking for decades.  Not 8-5 desk jockeys, but also not the typical "survival instructor" advertising in the back of Soldier of Fortune that seems to dominate the applicants for this show.

I doubt you'd find a lot of desk jockeys even seriously considering something like this.  Maybe some skilled laborers, but that's pretty stratified in terms of financial situation; the low end can't afford months off, and the high end would rather have a steady paycheck than a 1 in 10 chance at either a few years' pay in one shot or nothing for several months.

----------


## finallyME

> Sam spent a long time eating rodents from his close-in deadfalls,


I wouldn't say that Sam spent a long time eating rodents from his dead falls.  It was more like he spent a lot of time setting them up, with no catches....which is why he almost starved before tapping.  

I do agree about the survival instructor.... he isn't showing much skill at the moment.

----------


## edr730

The mice are in the dead rotten stumps. When I was a kid that's where we went if we wanted mice.

----------


## WalkingTree

That wouldn't make sense about Sam though...he says that he left the show with a couple pounds of pemmican left - or something like that, don't remember exactly how much he said it was.

Think it was somewhere in this vid where I heard it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUdH2ehlHfs

----------


## PNWJim

> I think the one thing I'd really want along that isn't on the list, though, is a Bible.  I'd be fine with them making sure all the pages are still accounted for at the end, but sitting out weeks of rain might finally be the motivation I need to read the Old Testament straight through.


Any good book would be good to take, however any book, even the Bible was not allowed on this Alone contest.   Even writing materials so you could write your own book were not allowed.   You have to deal with the situation with what is in your head only.

----------


## NightSG

> Any good book would be good to take, however any book, even the Bible was not allowed on this Alone contest.   Even writing materials so you could write your own book were not allowed.   You have to deal with the situation with what is in your head only.


I do wonder if they were allowed to record some "private" messages along with the rest of their video, and/or get a copy of their own footage that got cut.  Pen and paper for letter writing would kill a lot of the loneliness (letters picked up with the old batteries) even if you couldn't get replies until afterward.

For that matter, I wonder if they'd humor a contestant who managed to make some sort of paper and ink, write letters and leave them for pickup with the batteries.  Not gaining any advantage by it other than maybe a psychological one, and for that matter, you wouldn't even know whether they got mailed until after your time was up.  (Actually, my only real concern would be that they keep them safe and dry.  Hand delivering them after returning home would be fun.)

----------


## WalkingTree

Arg, we're rugged ole outdoorsman 'round here. Don't need no paper and pencils. We'll just make 'em ourselves. I'll make my own book and pencil. After building shelter 3.0, the library building is next.

Reminds me of something I found real funny on a show a long time ago about unusual homes - This guy was a librarian or something like that, so the house he built was designed to accommodate lots of books, and it was in Australia. He said something about his house...and you have to imagine him saying it with a thick british/Australian accent. That's what was funny - "It's a box for books in the bush." Say it outloud with that accent.

If taking a book, that might be the chance to get real smart - take a dictionary. Or a really thorough book on plant identification. Or War & Peace.

----------


## NightSG

> If taking a book, that might be the chance to get real smart - take a dictionary. Or a really thorough book on plant identification. Or War & Peace.


If not the Bible, then the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics.

Then I could use it as the counterweight on a trebuchet and hunt the bears.

----------


## Zylumn

So Mary Kate tapped from the cut to her hand. She must have been a volunteer fire fighter as you can see she has had no medical training. A First Aid Level 1 or EMR Cert. is usually the minimum. She was in shock but she still had no clue how to treat herself.

Nicole seems pretty comfortable I don't see her winning but I already have respect for her.

Tracy what can you say She is a tough customer. 

Randy's fire goes out I think he taps. He should be able to keep it going for a few weeks.

Jose; talk about someone comfortable in his surroundings. I wish they would have shown more of his set up; but I think we will have lots of time to see it.

----------


## finallyME

Yeah, Jose seems like he is in it for the long haul.  He is just getting settled.

----------


## Faiaoga

> If not the Bible, then the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics.
> 
> Then I could use it as the counterweight on a trebuchet and hunt the bears.


I hope no one attempted to bring a copy of the CRC Handbook  -  any copies of this that I have seen are so heavy they they would sink a boat or cause a helicopter to crash :No:

----------


## crashdive123

Here's a takeaway that I got from season 1 and so far in season 2.  This is not a criticism of any of the participants.

Self described "survival experts" leaves a lot of room for discussion and debate.  Those that work with nature and not against it will do far better than others.  Those that have not spent much time alone in the woods really don't enjoy their own company all that much.  Injuries can happen any time, especially if we become complacent.  When gear is lost or destroyed and there is no back-up, you may be in the hurt locker.

I understand, especially for my last comment that they are limited in gear but this reinforces (for me at least) why I take back-ups for stuff and don't store it all in the same place.  It doesn't matter if you bring 10 ways to start a fire and put them all in your pack if you lose your pack.

----------


## kyratshooter

They could have extracted Mary Kate last week but decided to string the excitement along I suppose.  She did need stitches in that cut, but in a true survival situation she would have stopped the bleeding, closed the cut with some butterflys, bandaged it, and been thankful it was her non-dominant hand.  Both last week and this episode would have been rather boring without that one bit of excitement. 

Even the bear encounters are less exciting this season.  

I think there are several in the group this season that will stay until the snow cover and ice make food gathering impossible and the possibility of starvation presents itself.  

I think that Randy does not have the ability to adapt to his new climate quick enough to overcome losing his ferro rod.  He is going to have to quit thinking of fire as being a small pile of burning twigs whenever he needs it and view it as an energy source obtained from large logs that burn for a whole day at a time and lives under his tarp.  

There are a couple of others that are doing stupid things.  It may seem like a good idea to them at the moment, but it is utterly stupid in the long run.  There is one guy that is going to kill himself going up and down the mountain in his daily trip to check the nets once he is weakened a little.  He can barely make it up he hill now.

One thing I get a kick from is the search for flat ground that seems to dominate their every thought!  Most of them seem to be from areas where they never have to climb a hill and they can pick a flat spot for camp that is big enough to build a city.  I suppose the being from KY I am just used to building a flat sleeping spot and the rest of the camp being on an angle!  Around here farm land is rolling hills and wilderness/preserved nature is straight up and down.  

I am wondering if the producers have told the contestants to be emotionally over exposed and appear generally like touchy-feely wimps and talk about their feelings constantly.  The ones that are not presenting themselves as emotional cripples are coming off as idealist or outdoor philosophers.

----------


## Winter

First off, I love the show. 

It's fun to watch because it's the same as here in SE Alaska. We get more rain, a little colder, but no cougars.

Some takes on the show so far.

 Jose is a settler and really has it together. My only worry for him is if he runs out of things to do and has to be alone with his thoughts. Same with Mike except Mike's past may be harder to be alone with.

Larry's mistakes in site selection and his commute to and from the ocean is going to get him injured. His temper and impatience will speed up the process.

Nicole is level headed and smart. She may not be as experienced as Jose and Mike but a good attitude trumps a lot of things.

Tracy will kill and eat the bear in hand to hand combat.

Justin's refusal to live off the ocean puts him in the same boat as Larry as far as subsistence goes. He also threw away that bird. At the very least, that bird was bait for fish, crab, mink, and martin.

David is hard to decipher.

----------------------------------------
The basic rule for scrounging on the pacific NW Islands.

Stay on the beach, that's where your food is and that's where all animals come at least once a day. Without bivalves (PSP/redtide)on the menu you still have snails, sea cucumbers, and seaweed.

------------------------------------------------

So far, the shelters are way better then last year and the skill levels of the contestants are better.

----------


## WalkingTree

These episodes just aren't long enough. What this is about just can't be stuck into less-than-an-hour episodes only once a week. I start watching it, then it's over.

Jose used tree roots for some lashing. I *knew* that was good stuff. Vindicated hehe.

Sucks about Mary. Out there like that, you got to be mindful of how you walk. How you move, don't be in a hurry. For example Jose crossed a creek on a fallen slippery tree while carring a log - I would've instead just tossed the log over, then crossed. Randy showed us a rock he found with a dimple in it for making fire - that dimple was close to the edge of that rock and that rock was a bit small...I'd feel like the drill would slip out right into my hand while I was pressing down, and pow, I've stabbed myself in the hand.

I might remember wrong, but I think Mary cut herself when she was talking to the camera while chopping. Seems like that distracted her some and she wasn't paying full attention. That's why I hate the idea of putting this stuff on t.v., or at least wouldn't want to mess with the camera or jabbering into it if I did this stuff. Even with camera operators, they'll always be thinking of the camera's presence to some extent.

Larry is funny when he get's frustrated. Likes to cuss at things. He better reign that in or he'll hurt himself.

Tracy is like...go on now, you bear. Git! Don't make me come over there!

Kyratshooter - When I spent a winter in KY, my buttocks and upper legs became very shapely...very fit. I loved it. Didn't need no stinking stairmaster machine.

But anyway...in the world that we've built which makes things easy, we can't forget the paradox of the human body. We're quite powerful in our way, but also in important ways we're just about the weakest and most vulnerable thing on the planet. It's so easy to get cut or damage a joint or limb. Or get sick...

...I know it's weird to think of *me* teaching anyone about this stuff, and in this crowd I rate kind of low. But I've found out, for myself, that anytime I "teach" something that I *do* know to anyone who *doesn't* know it, it's had the effect of teaching me stuff. I always end up learning a lot about something whenever I go through the process of teaching it to someone else. The opportunity to learn myself is a major motivation whenever I try to pass on anything to someone else...

...so, with that said - I always imagined that if I were in the position of having to teach others about these things, instead of just water or fire or shelter, etc, one of the first things would be a big speech on being careful. Of getting yourself into a certain mindset. A certain mood. Almost completely retraining yourself to 'baby' yourself with every step, every motion, and always think about what you're doing before you do it. And to make this attitude your new permanent headspace, all of the time.

----------


## edr730

Kyrat covered my opinions very well and he was on the mark. Mary Kay may have had tendons cut, but barring that, her injury didn't look serious. Her reactions were as if she had never experienced a very small amount of blood. She did the best she could but, unless her injury was more serious than it appeared, just wasn't ready. 
Not having enough firewood and not keeping it dry is bad and climbing a steep slope is also unless you have no choice. Beds can be made level. Tracy surprised me. Her opinions about the bear, wolves and cougar were right on and so were her reactions. I don't know Jose yet, but he seems good. The whining  and philosophy looks scripted to me too. If I didn't like where I was at (and I probably wouldn't), I'd move maybe as far as they would allow. The rain and the temperature makes me think of collecting worms.

----------


## crashdive123

I can't disagree with Winter's assessment at all. 

I'm curious why they haven't aired much footage from David.  Maybe not enough drama?  I know that he knows his way around shooting video.

----------


## NightSG

> It's fun to watch because it's the same as here in SE Alaska. We get more rain, a little colder, but no cougars.


Really?  What do you do when the younger women won't put out?




> Nicole is level headed and smart. She may not be as experienced as Jose and Mike but a good attitude trumps a lot of things.


Attitude trumps nearly everything; real "must leave" illnesses and injuries are rare with the equipment they have and basic first aid knowledge.  With the exception of the idiot drinking bad water last season, there hasn't been anybody who couldn't have chosen to stick with it longer.




> Tracy will kill and eat the bear in hand to hand combat.


Few more days without Taco Bell, and killing it first may be optional.




> Justin's refusal to live off the ocean puts him in the same boat as Larry as far as subsistence goes. He also threw away that bird. At the very least, that bird was bait for fish, crab, mink, and martin.


Without any sign of what killed it, I'd be concerned about a parasite, infection or toxin that could contaminate anything baited in with it too.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

www.alankaysurvival.com

Interesting. Alan  Season 1 winner

----------


## MOSTBCWT

www.woodsongwilderness.com

Sam. Season 1 almost winner.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

If y'all wanna own a knife Sam used on the show he's auctioning it off for money to help his business at the same time a group are giving him money to keep it.  Lol

Seems a little strange but just lettin you all know in case someone wants to own it.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> Without any sign of what killed it, I'd be concerned about a parasite, infection or toxin that could contaminate anything baited in with it too.


He wasted it. Anything he baited with it would be contained in the intestinal tract and would be disposed of before consumption and only after a thorough well done cooking.  Just shows his wilderness and woodland inexperience.  It was a major waste. He saw it swimming the day before.  He's just inexperienced. That's all you can say really.

----------


## kyratshooter

To be honest, with this years group I would be comfortable sitting down at the fire and sharing a cup of coffee with most any of them.  Well, any of them that still have a ferro rod! My camps look a lot like their camps, 'cept I usually carry a chair and have more firewood stacked up.

Don't know why, but this year's series makes we want to get out into the woods.

Been cooped up all winter and now that the weather has broken I am antsy.

----------


## Zylumn

> I can't disagree with Winter's assessment at all. 
> 
> I'm curious why they haven't aired much footage from David.  Maybe not enough drama?  I know that he knows his way around shooting video.





> www.alankaysurvival.com
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Alan  Season 1 winner


Maybe because he always looks angry it brought down the ratings

Alan has figured out how to turn a half million into 2 or 3 million

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> To be honest, with this years group I would be comfortable sitting down at the fire and sharing a cup of coffee with most any of them.  Well, any of them that still have a ferro rod! My camps look a lot like their camps, 'cept I usually carry a chair and have more firewood stacked up.
> 
> Don't know why, but this year's series makes we want to get out into the woods.
> 
> Been cooped up all winter and now that the weather has broken I am antsy.


Don't be cooped up all winter. Get out in the woods then too!!   Lol

----------


## WalkingTree

Yep...since it's a t.v. show...though it's about a survival situation which is hard enough by itself...better do a song and dance.

They'd love me, I guess. Even without the cameras, if I were out there for real and not on a show, I'd be playing a drum and whirling a bullroarer and blowing a didgeradoo to the animals that I'd make there. It would basically all be a song named "this is *my* house, ya'll."

----------


## NightSG

> I'm curious why they haven't aired much footage from David.  Maybe not enough drama?  I know that he knows his way around shooting video.


Maybe they're trying to find a nice way to say that he took too much advice from this forum, and got lost on day 2.  They're still trying to find him.

Mary Kate was a bit disappointing; it really looked like she'd be there a month or more at least.  Then again, a deep cut in the wild can go bad quickly, so I can't fault her too much for tapping out, though I do wish she'd calmed down before making the decision.  Now, given their attitudes, I could really see this coming down to a sit-it-out battle between Jose and Nicole if no disaster hits either of them.  Jose is on a camping trip, and Nicole saw the bear as a resource, (good lesson there, and one I'd forgotten about; anything that has a diet of mostly things you can eat is worth keeping track of) so I expect them to both be around for a while.

Randy could get his head out, use the fire as a focal point that keeps him from getting too wrapped up in the loneliness, and tough it out, but I have my doubts.  I still didn't see him piling on some big logs to dry and smoulder, while that seems to be a staple of Jose's plan with the fireblower.

----------


## DavidEnoch

I have seen criticism of the guys that brought Multitools. I think that in a survival situation that a multitool is often the best tool for manipulating trash and junk that you find into usable items.  I don't know if I would sacrifice a heavy knife for a multitool but I think it would be one of my selected items.  In the areas I have hiked I am always stumbling over junk that would be very valuable in a survival situation. The guys and gals on Alone have the ocean bringing in new junk every day.  

David Enoch

----------


## WeekendWarrior

I was wondering if the med kits were sealed and breaking the seal was considered a tapout?  Way too many useful things in it to allow them free access.

It also looked like Tracey popped a flare to scare away a bear.  I wonder if any were temped to use a flare to start a fire?

----------


## Zylumn

> I have seen criticism of the guys that brought Multitools. I think that in a survival situation that a multitool is often the best tool for manipulating trash and junk that you find into usable items.  I don't know if I would sacrifice a heavy knife for a multitool but I think it would be one of my selected items.  In the areas I have hiked I am always stumbling over junk that would be very valuable in a survival situation. The guys and gals on Alone have the ocean bringing in new junk every day.  
> 
> David Enoch


If I had the choice of one of the 2 Heavy Blade or Multi-tool I would take the multi-tool.




> I was wondering if the med kits were sealed and breaking the seal was considered a tapout?  Way too many useful things in it to allow them free access.
> 
> It also looked like Tracey popped a flare to scare away a bear.  I wonder if any were temped to use a flare to start a fire?


Good point a decent 1st aid kit would be full of useful material.




> Jose is on a camping trip, and Nicole saw the bear as a resource, (good lesson there, and one I'd forgotten about; anything that has a diet of mostly things you can eat is worth keeping track of) so I expect them to both be around for a while.


Such a great observation. Nicole definitely has the right attitude about the locals diet. A black bear consumes 6,000 to 10,000 calories a day if I remember correctly. That is a whole lot of food. I can't see a BBear capable of getting too many Live fish out of the ocean so 80+% of their intake was what Nicole was observing.

----------


## NightSG

> I have seen criticism of the guys that brought Multitools. I think that in a survival situation that a multitool is often the best tool for manipulating trash and junk that you find into usable items.  I don't know if I would sacrifice a heavy knife for a multitool but I think it would be one of my selected items.  In the areas I have hiked I am always stumbling over junk that would be very valuable in a survival situation. The guys and gals on Alone have the ocean bringing in new junk every day.


Yup.  IMO, I'd still want a small knife along for digging splinters out and such, so having a pair of pliers and a wire cutter attached to it is a bonus.




> I was wondering if the med kits were sealed and breaking the seal was considered a tapout?  Way too many useful things in it to allow them free access.
> 
> It also looked like Tracey popped a flare to scare away a bear.  I wonder if any were temped to use a flare to start a fire?


I would hope it's something that can be judged later; i.e. "make sure you have video of what you do with it and we'll decide later if it's a valid use."  I wouldn't want someone getting a potentially serious infection because they'd lose the game if they got some Bactine out of the kit, or getting too risky with a predator because they didn't want to use the flare.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

There is no substitute for a good sized full tang high carbon knife in an outdoors survival situation, unless of course you are allowed other things for making a tv show.  I've never understood why so many people who consider themselves true bushcrafters or woodland survivalists watch this show with so much vigor and seem to live vicariously through it. I suspect it's couch potato bushcrafters.

Anyone worth their salt and who possess genuine experience and knowledge can plainly see this tv show is not what it portrays itself to be.   Drama and ratings are the focus, not TRUE survival and long term survivability.

----------


## kyratshooter

It still beats McGiver reruns.  And I applaud this grew for making it as realistic as possible inside legal and safety standards.  

Yes there is some contrived and edited drama.  That is to be expected, it's entertainment and sitting and watching soundless film of people going about mundane tasks for hours is not good editing by any measure.

If  want bad film and editing I can go to You-tube and watch some hat on backwards, wrap around sunglass wearing fool brag and drone on endlessly.

I do know that this series has almost every survival related forum on the internet abuzz with discussion, and most of the discussion is equipment and skills related, not the general TV show complaints over whether they are actually having pizza delivered when the cameras are turned off.  

As for couch potato syndrome ,,, The couch is for company, I occupy the Lazy Boy.

And no, I am not giving up my TV to pursue more important activities.  I did that for 60+ years, now I get to sit and watch TV any time I feel like it.

----------


## NightSG

> There is no substitute for a good sized full tang high carbon knife in an outdoors survival situation, unless of course you are allowed other things for making a tv show.


I always carry at least two knives when spending time in the woods, partly on the "two is one, one is none" theory, and partly because big knives do some things well, while small knives do other things well.  If I were setting up a gear list for the show, I would most likely do both a large knife and a multitool.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> It still beats McGiver reruns.  And I applaud this grew for making it as realistic as possible inside legal and safety standards.  
> 
> Yes there is some contrived and edited drama.  That is to be expected, it's entertainment and sitting and watching soundless film of people going about mundane tasks for hours is not good editing by any measure.
> 
> If  want bad film and editing I can go to You-tube and watch some hat on backwards, wrap around sunglass wearing fool brag and drone on endlessly.
> 
> I do know that this series has almost every survival related forum on the internet abuzz with discussion, and most of the discussion is equipment and skills related, not the general TV show complaints over whether they are actually having pizza delivered when the cameras are turned off.  
> 
> As for couch potato syndrome ,,, The couch is for company, I occupy the Lazy Boy.
> ...


Laze on my brutha!!

----------


## Zylumn

> I've never understood why so many people who consider themselves true bushcrafters or woodland survivalists watch this show with so much vigor and seem to live vicariously through it. I suspect it's couch potato bushcrafters.
> 
> Anyone worth their salt and who possess genuine experience and knowledge can plainly see this tv show is not what it portrays itself to be.   Drama and ratings are the focus, not TRUE survival and long term survivability.


A true bush crafter or woodland survivalist as you say would most likely not have internet or tv to watch this show. You demean people here and on other sites for something you yourself are party to. 
I would love to be a true survivalist but real world commitments force me to spend 8 or 9 months of the year talking about it and not doing it. 
The contestants on this show probably generate 300 hours of video a day or 2000 + hours a week that is edited to produce 40 minutes of entertainment. We get to " live vicariously" through that 40 minutes. Does our conversations about this show make me a better survivalist ( maybe). I carry a fire blower I made 30 years ago from an expanding golf ball retriever would I need to make another while I'm out? I have never thought about it but I know I could easily make one like Jose did. 
Take this show for what it is Entertainment if it takes you to a place and lets you think back to some of your own experiences then it is good entertainment. That's what it does for me. 
So MOSTBCWT instead of labeling me for watching and talking about the ALONE show. Show me YOUR "worth of salt" what would you do as an ALONE contestant given the shows restrictions.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> A true bush crafter or woodland survivalist as you say would most likely not have internet or tv to watch this show. You demean people here and on other sites for something you yourself are party to. 
> I would love to be a true survivalist but real world commitments force me to spend 8 or 9 months of the year talking about it and not doing it. 
> The contestants on this show probably generate 300 hours of video a day or 2000 + hours a week that is edited to produce 40 minutes of entertainment. We get to " live vicariously" through that 40 minutes. Does our conversations about this show make me a better survivalist ( maybe). I carry a fire blower I made 30 years ago from an expanding golf ball retriever would I need to make another while I'm out? I have never thought about it but I know I could easily make one like Jose did. 
> Take this show for what it is Entertainment if it takes you to a place and lets you think back to some of your own experiences then it is good entertainment. That's what it does for me. 
> So MOSTBCWT instead of labeling me for watching and talking about the ALONE show. Show me YOUR "worth of salt" what would you do as an ALONE contestant given the shows restrictions.


Not be on Alone.

----------


## finallyME

Calling other people couch potatoes because they watch a show, and doing this while typing on the INTERNET.... Pot calling the kettle black.  There will never be a true survival show... without some major risks.  This show is actually pretty good, considering you still have lawyers.  

Oh, and there are substitutes for a good sized full tang high carbon knife in an outdoors survival situation.  People have survived for thousands of years without them.

----------


## hunter63

Looks like we have a ''lets cruise this forum and toss some barbs.....at one and all..." on our hands.

Not impressed.

I predict 25 posts......Who else is in?

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> A true bush crafter or woodland survivalist as you say would most likely not have internet or tv to watch this show.


You shouldn't be so hard on everyone.  

Sorry I was short responding earlier. I only use my phone.  Was in the river bottoms all day building another semi-permanent camp.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> Calling other people couch potatoes because they watch a show, and doing this while typing on the INTERNET.... Pot calling the kettle black.  There will never be a true survival show... without some major risks.  This show is actually pretty good, considering you still have lawyers.  
> 
> Oh, and there are substitutes for a good sized full tang high carbon knife in an outdoors survival situation.  People have survived for thousands of years without them.


Zylum is who said everyone who has Internet and tv probably aren't real bushcrafters.  Can somebody please tell me who here or anywhere I directly insulted or called a couch potato bushcrafter?   I haven't mentioned a single person.   Seems like some folks have a sensitivity to that language though.   Interesting.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> Looks like we have a ''lets cruise this forum and toss some barbs.....at one and all..." on our hands.
> 
> Not impressed.
> 
> I predict 25 posts......Who else is in?


You would be incorrect.  I'm not real impressed either.  If I only last 25 posts it'll be because someone had their feelings hurt and ban me.  Not because I insult anyone.  

Go outside and look at the moon. Do you realize we are in a 3 day old moon right now?  Do you even understand that?  Do you know what that means as it relates to navigation and woodsmanship?    Impress me.   Please impress me.   I'm anxiously waiting to be impressed.  I'll be outside studying constellations ,etc.   It's very educational.  Unlike most bushcraft related Internet forums.

----------


## crashdive123

Let it go and move on.  Everybody please.

----------


## DavidEnoch

> There is no substitute for a good sized full tang high carbon knife in an outdoors survival situation, unless of course you are allowed other things for making a tv show.  I've never understood why so many people who consider themselves true bushcrafters or woodland survivalists watch this show with so much vigor and seem to live vicariously through it. I suspect it's couch potato bushcrafters.
> 
> Anyone worth their salt and who possess genuine experience and knowledge can plainly see this tv show is not what it portrays itself to be.   Drama and ratings are the focus, not TRUE survival and long term survivability.


True, I would take a large chopping type knife over an axe or saw in most situations.  

Yes, the current fornula for TV series like this is more about human conflict than skills, decision making, gear, etc.  I wish that every week they showed the items they had found on their beach and how they are using them.  I with they showed the updates to their shelter.  I with they showed how their bed and bedding were made and how well it was working.  I wish they showed how much food they caught or picked and how much of their reserves was used.  I would like to see every project that was tried, both failures and sucesses.  You could make a two hour  show on each contestant each week and a lot of us couch potatoes would watch it.   By the way, a lot of us "couch potatoes" work 50 -60 hours per week, take care of our kids, take care of aging parents, mow the yard, and worship two or three times a week. Catching an hour of Alone is a guilty please and break from our reality.
David Enoch

----------


## Zylumn

> True, I would take a large chopping type knife over an axe or saw in most situations.  
> 
> Yes, the current fornula for TV series like this is more about human conflict than skills, decision making, gear, etc.  I wish that every week they showed the items they had found on their beach and how they are using them.  I with they showed the updates to their shelter.  I with they showed how their bed and bedding were made and how well it was working.  I wish they showed how much food they caught or picked and how much of their reserves was used.  I would like to see every project that was tried, both failures and sucesses.  You could make a two hour  show on each contestant each week and a lot of us couch potatoes would watch it.   By the way, a lot of us "couch potatoes" work 50 -60 hours per week, take care of our kids, take care of aging parents, mow the yard, and worship two or three times a week. Catching an hour of Alone is a guilty please and break from our reality.
> David Enoch


Very true.

It would be interesting if you could purchase a complete contestants video. Lets say complete footage from last year participants or this years tap outs.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> True, I would take a large chopping type knife over an axe or saw in most situations.  
> 
> Yes, the current fornula for TV series like this is more about human conflict than skills, decision making, gear, etc.  I wish that every week they showed the items they had found on their beach and how they are using them.  I with they showed the updates to their shelter.  I with they showed how their bed and bedding were made and how well it was working.  I wish they showed how much food they caught or picked and how much of their reserves was used.  I would like to see every project that was tried, both failures and sucesses.  You could make a two hour  show on each contestant each week and a lot of us couch potatoes would watch it.   By the way, a lot of us "couch potatoes" work 50 -60 hours per week, take care of our kids, take care of aging parents, mow the yard, and worship two or three times a week. Catching an hour of Alone is a guilty please and break from our reality.
> David Enoch


Nice post David.  I didn't say anyone here is a couch potato bushcrafter for the record.  Just offering up a thought to ponder.  

A good knife is hard to beat for sure

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## edr730

I think too much is made of equipment. Certain kind of knife or axe or whatever else they choose. It's the same as trying to judge a teachers ability by his ink pen, spiral or loose leaf notebook, the kind of desk he has etc, In most cases it doesn't matter much at all. It's always what's in the guys head and his experience in a given environment. Grit only goes so far if you don't know the animals and their habits and how to find them, catch them and eat them.

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## NightSG

> It would be interesting if you could purchase a complete contestants video. Lets say complete footage from last year participants or this years tap outs.


Definitely.  There are a few, like Lucas, that obviously did a _lot_ of interesting stuff that didn't make it through editing.




> I think too much is made of equipment. Certain kind of knife or axe or whatever else they choose. It's the same as trying to judge a teachers ability by his ink pen, spiral or loose leaf notebook, the kind of desk he has etc, In most cases it doesn't matter much at all. It's always what's in the guys head and his experience in a given environment.


It can also be simple familiarity and comfort with a given tool.  Like Cody Lundin choosing a plain Mora Classic for so many Dual Survival episodes; it's obviously a knife he's spent a lot of time using, and knows exactly what he can do with it.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> I think too much is made of equipment. Certain kind of knife or axe or whatever else they choose. It's the same as trying to judge a teachers ability by his ink pen, spiral or loose leaf notebook, the kind of desk he has etc, In most cases it doesn't matter much at all. It's always what's in the guys head and his experience in a given environment. Grit only goes so far if you don't know the animals and their habits and how to find them, catch them and eat them.


Nice post.  I would love to see someone on the show take a big game animal. Maybe someone will at least have some snare success on small game.  The whole "sit in a tarp house and hope for a fish and slowly starve until tapping out" thing is getting really old.  I would love to see some serious food successes.

----------


## Grizz123

I would like to see someone make a tipi with the big tarp and use the smaller tarps to keep wood dry and catch water

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## MOSTBCWT

Or maybe an 8x8 or 10x10 trapper shack cabin using logs.   Could be built within 72 hours very easily.

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## edr730

It appears, as was discussed, that the bears must be off limits. Contestants would have killed them by now. If they were allowed to shoot them with a bow, they would just put some bait about 5 feet up in a tree and sit in another tree about 15 yards away. When the bear reaches up with both paws and moves the shoulder back and exposes the easy kill area, it should be all over. It would give a contestant too big of an advantage. 
I think they probably keep them away from lakes which would be a source of food. Although, fishing should be bad this time of year. If they found smaller slow moving creeks they could find food in the water and the animals who go to the water. Slower creeks might be a bit rare this time of year. I suspect they keep them as far away from those types of areas as possible. But, the contestants should be looking for them. Of couse, with weirs and fish traps, there is no reason they couldn't increase their catch right where they are.  
Yeah Grizz, keeping that wood dry is pretty important. I see birch and pine there so they should be able to make some water contatiners.

----------


## MOSTBCWT

> It appears, as was discussed, that the bears must be off limits. Contestants would have killed them by now. If they were allowed to shoot them with a bow, they would just put some bait about 5 feet up in a tree and sit in another tree about 15 yards away. When the bear reaches up with both paws and moves the shoulder back and exposes the easy kill area, it should be all over. It would give a contestant too big of an advantage. 
> I think they probably keep them away from lakes which would be a source of food. Although, fishing should be bad this time of year. If they found smaller slow moving creeks they could find food in the water and the animals who go to the water. Slower creeks might be a bit rare this time of year. I suspect they keep them as far away from those types of areas as possible. But, the contestants should be looking for them. Of couse, with weirs and fish traps, there is no reason they couldn't increase their catch right where they are.  
> Yeah Grizz, keeping that wood dry is pretty important. I see birch and pine there so they should be able to make some water contatiners.


Do you have any reputable source other than discussion here or elsewhere online that verifies bears are off limits other than the fact nobody has tried to kill one?  The fact nobody has tried to kill one considering these contestants is not a surprise.  

The island is also full of other large game animals and nobody has gone after them either.   I sure would like to know for fact what the rules are.  I'm sure it would disappoint a lotta people to really know.

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## WalkingTree

I wanna see a tree house man! Heck yea! A grouping of trees, multiple long timbers fastened between them horizontally, then more between those, then a full fledged hut up there. Then...long timbers between trees, one on each side of each tree, short sections of split trees run down them sideways (planks)...and make your own walkways through the forest, except 20 feet up. That's what I'm talking about. Let's get cracking...

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## NightSG

> Do you have any reputable source other than discussion here or elsewhere online that verifies bears are off limits other than the fact nobody has tried to kill one?  The fact nobody has tried to kill one considering these contestants is not a surprise.


This; having hunted hogs with "not enough gun," I could see these people being scared away from bowhunting bears.

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## MOSTBCWT

> This; having hunted hogs with "not enough gun," I could see these people being scared away from bowhunting bears.


So no, you do not.  I could certainly see these tv show contestants being scared no doubt.  Thanks a bunch

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## crashdive123

> All non-resident hunters wishing to hunt big game in the Province of British Columbia are required to be accompanied by a registered guide outfitter or by a resident who holds an Accompany to Hunt Permit.


Source:http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/sp...sident-hunting

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## MOSTBCWT

I read somewhere, I think Sam from season 1 posted that they were given same hunting/fishing priveleges as the native First Nations people for purposes of this show. That renders conventional licensing and guide requirements null and void.

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## Zylumn

> I wanna see a tree house man! Heck yea! A grouping of trees, multiple long timbers fastened between them horizontally, then more between those, then a full fledged hut up there. Then...long timbers between trees, one on each side of each tree, short sections of split trees run down them sideways (planks)...and make your own walkways through the forest, except 20 feet up. That's what I'm talking about. Let's get cracking...


A tree house would be great to see but;

Last season we saw winds 60 to 80 km per hour. I would not want to be 20 ft in a tree shelter under those conditions.

I believe a cave is the safest bet but we have seen that with Alan.

Would be cool to see a tree house though.

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## crashdive123

I can certainly understand a raised platform with the wet conditions, but a tree house would seem to be a waste of energy, resources and add way too much risk.

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## NightSG

> I can certainly understand a raised platform with the wet conditions, but a tree house would seem to be a waste of energy, resources and add way too much risk.


Platform elevated 2-3 feet, enclose the "crawl space" and turn it into a hypocaust.  For a long-term situation like the show, it's really not a half bad solution.

"Well, it's 25 degrees outside, but here in my sweat lodge, it's 105."

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## edr730

MOSTBCWT, I have no idea what the rules are. I'm just guessing that shooting a bear would be too easy for the rules to allow it. The method I mentioned was used long before the compound bow and many bear have been taken that way. I've never heard, from those I have known, anyone that was injured while bear hunting. Although, I have known three people who had the bear climb up the tree at them. One was a woman. Two of the bears were shot and one sprayed. Two of them had dead fish in the tree stand, which is a common practice, and the other growled at the bear.
WalkingTree, lots of work and risk, a tree house, when there are more important priorities.  A comfortable lazyboy type bed would be not be too too difficult to make with rope and sticks and a umbrella tarp setup over you if you cut the top of the tree off. I've dozed off in them many times. But, the fire is down below, and as Crash said, it gets windy up there quite often. Easier just to make a easy rope seat,  that won't make your butt sore, in a tall white pine that has lots of branches at the same height for the seat. Might be nice on a sunny afternoon.  Maybe you'd see something interesting.

----------


## NightSG

> MOSTBCWT, I have no idea what the rules are. I'm just guessing that shooting a bear would be too easy for the rules to allow it. The method I mentioned was used long before the compound bow and many bear have been taken that way.


Usually by groups, though.  Having even one more person with bow drawn makes it a lot less likely that you'll be mauled by an injured bear before you can ready another arrow.  Last season, everybody seemed too scared of the bears to risk it.  This season, there might be a couple of them willing to try it when they get good and hungry.  As was mentioned earlier, though, that's a lot of meat, so maybe they're waiting for daytime temps to not exceed the "refrigerator" range.

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## edr730

NightSG, bears are always hunted with a bow with just one person alone and close up and baited in. Usually with guns, they might use dogs and walkie talkies and a bunch of people like coon hunting and might shoot him out of a tree. I still question that they would be allowed to kill the bear. 
          Daytime temps can far exceed refrigerater temps as long as it drops to below 40 at night and the animal is in the shade. Flys can be a problem if it warms up too much. Which it appears that it does. The ocean water is brine so you soak the meat. You make a tripod and cut off all the branches of the saplings of the tripod at about a foot and you skewer the meat on those, make a fire under it and you make jerky. 
          It's the old way and certainly not my idea. The fat is for food and lamps and the rest is very good crab bait and fish bait too. The fish and crab traps are pretty simple, like many things, and most people could make them after an hour of coaching.

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## WalkingTree

Treehouse - not really. Of course.

Myself, I'd go for a specific type of A-frame design for my first long-term shelter.

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## Zylumn

> Tracy what can you say She is a tough customer.


I was sure wrong there

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## kyratshooter

More to it than was shown.  Something they do not want to reveal was probably going on.  You do not tap out because you scared the baby bear.

They are making a lot of mistakes.  Mistakes that professionals should not be making.  

If you have water and you have fire why do you wait until you are so dehydrated you can not walk straight to boil some water?

How come no one googled "best place to set a gill net" before they left home? 

If I hear one more word about Barbra or the orphanage I am going to puke.  I would not have given that whiner a Christmas present either.  It's probably been the best 9 days Barbra has had in months.

----------


## crashdive123

I'm not surprised by Tracy's exit.  We have talked about it a lot here when we get the frequent "I'm running of to the woods (ROTTW) because society sucks post.  We often remind them (to no avail) that the "thing" they are trying to escape is not society, but rather themselves.  Being alone in the wilderness with only your own demons to contend with will merely intensify them if you have not learned how to either cope with them or overcome them.

Not equating Tracy to trying to run away, but rather she has not learned how to cope with her inner demons yet.

----------


## crashdive123

Another observation I had was some of the flimsy shelter construction.  While it may keep you dry if there is just some rain, if they experience severe weather like they did last year (and most likely will) some of those tarps will be lost which will only take them further out of their comfort zones - potentially placing them in life threatening situations.

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## WalkingTree

> ...the "thing" they are trying to escape is not society, but rather themselves...will merely intensify them if you have not learned...Not equating Tracy to trying to run away, but rather she has not learned how to cope with her inner demons yet.


This is a good perspective. I'm never sure which way to jump when someone comments that they're "going out there" for something like testing themselves, finding some peace, or anything like to face an inner demon. Because that's potentially vague and could be interpreted in a few different ways, and it could also be said that people who go for some solitude to meditate and chant "om" for a while do ok with that and demonstrate stamina in that effort...the difference may simply be that when people go to chant "om" in solitude, they usually aren't also trying to survive primitively in the bush. Except that, then again, as soon as I said that...I remember that in fact that's precisely what many have done successfully. So heck...maybe all this armchair psychological commentary goes only so far.

I haven't gotten a chance to see this last episode, and when I do see for myself, I might have a different judgement to render. But it might just be that it's hard sometimes to know the difference between objective profiling, pigeon holing, and just benefitting from hindsight being 20/20.

Anywho...ultimately I can only say more about myself than about another (and even that isn't absolute - sometimes it's another person who can say more about someone than that someone can say about theirself). The whole thing about solitude isn't something that I can relate to or have a problem with in these situations. Not having help, and having to do things all by yourself...that I can understand to a point. But just the idea itself of being alone and having no one to talk to...being lonely...wouldn't be a problem for me at all. Having loved ones and missing them, I can understand easily. But otherwise just being alone in general...wouldn't be a weakness for me one bit. It's not because I'm an introvert or antisocial though...I figure that for some people they'd not have a problem with solitude because they're antisocial or introverted in some way, but that's not the case for me. I very simply wouldn't feel bored or lonely. Just not an issue I could even conceive of. Might be because, for example, when I hear people say going camping or being in the woods etc is "relaxing" or "peaceful" or "quiet", I don't relate to that either. I don't see it any more or less relaxing, peaceful, or quiet. In fact can be quite noisy - is just a matter of what kind of sounds we're talking about. But I'm never out in the bush to relax, to be at peace, or because I think it's quiet - I almost don't 'get' that or even like to hear it, because it seems like a hint that someone views such things in a very wrong or different way - like their attitude about 'mother nature' and her place in the universe is not something I'd agree with. I have a completely different experience, and would be there for a whole different set of reasons.




> ...flimsy shelter construction...


Yea, again...what's up with that? Somebody *build* something already. I know it's hard out there, but that's what you're there for and you're supposed to be able to this stuff and you've got all darned day. What have you been doing all day, for days and days, when we tune in to watch your show?

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## finallyME

> More to it than was shown.  Something they do not want to reveal was probably going on.  You do not tap out because you scared the baby bear.
> 
> They are making a lot of mistakes.  Mistakes that professionals should not be making.  
> 
> If you have water and you have fire why do you wait until you are so dehydrated you can not walk straight to boil some water?
> 
> How come no one googled "best place to set a gill net" before they left home? 
> 
> If I hear one more word about Barbra or the orphanage I am going to puke.  I would not have given that whiner a Christmas present either.  It's probably been the best 9 days Barbra has had in months.


I was thinking the same thing about David and the water.  Why are you just now getting it done?  Everyone else seems good with water.  That is the easiest to get and do.  Every morning you have a fire with water boiling.  The gill net looks great... but come on David... drink water.

----------


## finallyME

> Another observation I had was some of the flimsy shelter construction.  While it may keep you dry if there is just some rain, if they experience severe weather like they did last year (and most likely will) some of those tarps will be lost which will only take them further out of their comfort zones - potentially placing them in life threatening situations.


That was my thought when I saw the big tarp set up high.  He spent all that time with making a table and sink and drying rack, but no time to make a storm shelter.  Hearing what people are saying, they all saw season 1.  Well, the previews for the next show show a big storm coming it.  I guess we will see the results of that.

----------


## finallyME

Tracy disappointed.  I was hoping she would go longer.  One woman left.

I think Larry is going to tap soon.  He seems so negative, and very much out of his comfort zone.
We will see how Nicole handles bears.  I can't believe she is putting up the net a week into it.
I think Randy will tap soon as well.  He also seems way out of his element.
Mike talk a lot about Barbara and the orphanage, and I think he can do better with his shelter, but other than that..he is eating well.  He also seems comfortable.  I see him lasting long.
I don't know about David.  I was hoping he would be doing better.  Either he taps soon, or he overcomes and lasts longer.
I think Justin will last a while as well.
Jose is getting very little coverage.  And, the little he does get shows him very strong.  I see him either winning or nearly winning.

----------


## Lamewolf

> I am waiting to see how long it takes for someone to pick an extra tarp and use it completely for water gathering.
> 
> Rains 2 days out of three, so wet you can't start a fire with a road flare, but everyone is dehydrating for lack of drinking water when all they have to do is dig a hole and spread a tarp.
> 
> I would also like to see someone build a real shelter.  No one has done that yet.  They throw together an "overnight survival hut" and fight the wildlife until they whine out and go home.  
> 
> If you are staying in bear/wolf country for the long haul why not take a couple of days to build a real trapper's cabin and use the tarp for a roof instead of the whole shelter.    What else do you have to do for the next two months?
> 
> I wonder how many of them packed on an extra 20 pounds for this effort?  That was what the last winner attributed his success too.  An extra 20 pounds will give you 2 weeks mobile food reserve.
> ...


They don't even have to waste the energy to dig a hole to collect water if they can find enough logs or rocks to create a framework for the tarp to lay on.  That keeps the top above ground and helps keep some debris from contaminating the water.

----------


## WalkingTree

Ok, saw the latest episode. I first want to repeat something though (just something I always think about myself when I criticize or make observations). It's easy to watch a game of chess between two other people and make comments. But it's different to do it. You might be better than one or both of the other players, and your observations be legitimate, but it might be the other way around - always remember the possibility that they're doing what they're doing because of something that you don't see, versus you seeing something that they don't or having abilities that they don't...

...we all have ideas of what we'd do, and even correctly know that we could do differently or better; The people on this show have all these things they plan on or want to do. And then when they or we are actually in it, it might turn out a bit different. This is when we find out why the food and water issue is the factor that it is - they say that you can live a few weeks without food, or a few days without water, but that doesn't mean that you're going to be able to concentrate well mentally during that time period. That doesn't mean that you're going to be able to physically run around and make use of all of the hours of the day to get all these things done. What we may see happening is just how much a simple lack of food and water for just a short period of time can really hamper how much progress you can make with various projects.

Also I'm tempted to say "stop thinking about tacos and chicken already". Just dwelling on it is a choice. Stop doing it. Yet...this kind of hunger and thirst might take a person to a realm where they just don't have that much mental control. It's something that might take such a control over you that is very hard to stop.

And so this is why I say get things going as soon as possible. Before you get into that hole which can be much harder to get out of than it is to get into. You're already in trouble that first minute, not days or weeks later after you start getting thirsty and hungry. You have to not get into that hole in the first place, if at all possible.

With that said...

I'm confused about Tracy. She didn't like that she 'got violent' towards the bears? Obviously there're things to that story that we don't know about. But I just didn't observe any undue violence, and when you're out there like that, yelling at a bear is part of it all. That's part of what might be the norm. Moreover, if addressing this about herself, whatever it is, is one of the things that she's trying to do out there...then she shoulda remained out there in order to do it. Do it here in society, or out there. But don't quit because of that. If you're trying to face it, then face it. Do it. Would it be different here versus there?

I don't know if it's something that would have any bearing...but when she was putting on her pack getting ready to leave, I thought I saw something. Something I wondered about from the beginning. But I'm not gonna say what it was. Just wondering if anybody else saw it. And wonder if it has anything to do with whatever personal issues she's trying to deal with.

And Mike. Kissed a slug, while dreaming and thinking it was his wife. Ok. Fine. But was he getting emotional about it? Hoping it didn't scar anyone telling the story? Huh?? C'mon man. Somebody get in there and slap him to his senses.

I do like a couple of his projects though. The stove top allows him to not have to always squat down to the ground. Convenient. And the hands-free water. Good deal there.

Watching David made me think that you shouldn't try to rely on just a net and stop there. I think I'd want to create several food possibilities, and increase my chances. I don't know that I'd even spend the time making a net either...might prefer to just modify the bank in several places for fish trapping; Might end up with several of those in the same time as making one net.

I thought I saw a telling-moment with Justin, one that says a lot about who he is and how he'll do. Camera came on, he stood and stared blankly for a minute, said "it's day 276. I've learned how to communicate with the animals". And then he laughed, showing that he was messing with us. This might show him to be psychologically stable and strong.

But after saying that, I'm scared that next episode he's gonna feel bad because he "showed violence" by yelling at a bear to go away, or feels bad because he kissed a slug and hopes that it didn't scar any of us...and taps out.

----------


## Zylumn

> I'm not surprised by Tracy's exit.  We have talked about it a lot here when we get the frequent "I'm running of to the woods (ROTTW) because society sucks post.  We often remind them (to no avail) that the "thing" they are trying to escape is not society, but rather themselves.  Being alone in the wilderness with only your own demons to contend with will merely intensify them if you have not learned how to either cope with them or overcome them.
> 
> Not equating Tracy to trying to run away, but rather she has not learned how to cope with her inner demons yet.


True observation: If your not at peace with yourself how can you be at peace with your surroundings.




> I don't know if it's something that would have any bearing...but when she was putting on her pack getting ready to leave, I thought I saw something. Something I wondered about from the beginning. But I'm not gonna say what it was. Just wondering if anybody else saw it. And wonder if it has anything to do with whatever personal issues she's trying to deal with.
> 
> .


Other than a picture of a dog the only thing I commented to my wife about her belt with front clasp she was wearing. What a useful tool to slide in with the clothing. All my pants would have belts. 




> Also I'm tempted to say "stop thinking about tacos and chicken already". Just dwelling on it is a choice. Stop doing it. Yet...this kind of hunger and thirst might take a person to a realm where they just don't have that much mental control. It's something that might take such a control over you that is very hard to stop.


This will be his excuse to tap he is just leading us up to it.




> And Mike. Kissed a slug, while dreaming and thinking it was his wife. Ok. Fine. But was he getting emotional about it? Hoping it didn't scar anyone telling the story? Huh?? C'mon man. Somebody get in there and slap him to his senses.
> 
> I do like a couple of his projects though. The stove top allows him to not have to always squat down to the ground. Convenient. And the hands-free water. Good deal there.
> .


Mike is starting to irritate me he needs a B-slap. I bet his wife is in vacation mode not having to babysit. Can you imagine him at home" Barbara I put a nail on the wall so you could hang your coat Isn't that good of me?" B-slap # 2
His shelter is too high (you can see his bedding to the left). When the 50 mph + winds come along he will be kissing more than the slug.  

Nicole: She ran from the bear. She is now considered prey and inferior. Now that the bear knows it's dominate it will assert it's territory and Nicole will tap.

----------


## NightSG

> We will see how Nicole handles bears.  I can't believe she is putting up the net a week into it.


She'd been doing pretty well with the grazing from the looks of it, so I can't really blame her for waiting to gather fish that won't keep well.

One thing I have wondered about though, is digging a live well for the fish just above high tide; they don't spoil while they're swimming, and having them in, say, a 3x6' pool would make them easy to gather when you do get hungry.  If they had more small game, I'd be thinking of live trapping methods and cages for squirrels and rabbits.




> I'm not surprised by Tracy's exit.  We have talked about it a lot here when we get the frequent "I'm running of to the woods (ROTTW) because society sucks post.  We often remind them (to no avail) that the "thing" they are trying to escape is not society, but rather themselves.  Being alone in the wilderness with only your own demons to contend with will merely intensify them if you have not learned how to either cope with them or overcome them.


I don't know; I've found that, at least for the few days I've done runs like that, my own demons don't care for the intense focus they get when work, church, etc. aren't making me deal with others' demons.  Hard work keeps them at bay, too, so I'm sure I'd have a few manic-depressive swings when it came down to the "sit in the shelter and wait out some weather" stage, but I'd hope that would clear up long before it became a deciding factor for tapping out.

----------


## kyratshooter

The thing that bothers me is that these people are supposed to be some of the best in the nation and due to a bunch of mental crap they are proving to be weak @$$ wimps terrified by their own *memories*.

What are you going to do if you are stuck with one of these pseudo-psychos in a real survival situation?

Or do *memories* only show up when you are alone?  

And they are* memories*, not "demons".  No need to give them a life and power of their own separate from us.  They are *memories* we either hang on to or get rid of and we do both by our own will.

Is the ALONE part that much of a factor?

I do not think it is.  I think they are "full time crazy" and being around other people allows them to hide the crazy.

I ask because I live alone.  I have lived alone for almost 1/4 of my life and now that I have retired I often go for 8-10 days without speaking a word to another human.  I often do not go to the store and tell the clerk I am "doing fine" but once in two weeks.  I don't even talk to myself!  

I schedule meetings and make myself go out and talk to people.  If I did not I would probably be content to do my chores, work my projects and read my books until one day the kids that walk down the road complained about the smell of death coming from my house.

The thing is that I do enjoy being around people.  I have just become very particular about the people I bother to be around.  If someone is not worth the effort of walking across the road to talk to why walk across the road?  

Because the world is filled with people trying to hide their crazy and using you to do it!

----------


## RobinD69

That is the disappointing thing if you can't take a bear or a cougar, it makes the show half cocked. In a real survival situation food water fire and shelter are priorities. On the show they want to limit you in everyway they can.

----------


## Zylumn

I wonder if the Show forced Tracy off or disqualified her after her use of the Flare and Horn. They could have said Zero compensation if you blame it on us come up with a good excuse!!!?

----------


## kyratshooter

Almost all of this years crew are cooking and eating at their campsite or inside their shelters.  

That is not an advised activity even if the only critters in your area are possums and raccoons!

In bear country it is suicide.

----------


## WalkingTree

> Nicole: She ran from the bear. She is now considered prey and inferior. Now that the bear knows it's dominate it will assert it's territory and Nicole will tap.


Yea I was thinking to myself that I wish she'd just go about her business casually, as if "this is my area", and keep that psychological edge on those bears. Looked like mama bear was just observing, and this would be the information to let mama bear gather. Might not work - bear might decide to be interested when she saw Nicole got fish, but you don't know that yet. Might instead see that it's Nicole's area and the bear would feel that 'on the defensive' stance, feeling like it's in another creature's area and therefore be hesitant before invading. Who knows. But you find out, instead of establish the wrong impression immediately by running when the bear is just sitting there a distance away.




> ...being around other people allows them to hide the crazy...the world is filled with people trying to hide their crazy and using you to do it...


Identifying these people is an art, apparently. Not many care to even recognize the possibility of their existence. But also, many of them are in an unspoken pact with each other...hiding each other, so to speak.




> Almost all of this years crew are cooking and eating at their campsite or inside their shelters. 
> 
> That is not an advised activity even if the only critters in your area are possums and raccoons!
> 
> In bear country it is suicide.


Someone in here recently related to me the experience of never having problems over years of being out there - always cooked and ate at the primary shelter. Said that when you make it clear that it's your space, the bigger animals 'feel on the defensive' since it's your space and are easier to drive off. I was wondering about that.

----------


## Zylumn

> Someone in here recently related to me the experience of never having problems over years of being out there - always cooked and ate at the primary shelter. Said that when you make it clear that it's your space, the bigger animals 'feel on the defensive' since it's your space and are easier to drive off. I was wondering about that.


Before I begin : a disclaimer: 
I recommend having a cooking area 100 yards away from your sleeping area, All utensils and clothes you were wearing saved there in a bear bag, absolutely no food in your sleeping area. 

I have lived and camped in bear country ( Canadian NW Rockies) for over 50 years and have Never had a cooking area away from my camping area. Now bear bags and NO food of any kind in our tents was a standard rule. 

Facts about bears:
If you start camping in their territory they are curious and will check you out.
At 50 ft. they can most likely tell what you ate in your last meal and what spices you put in it.

Facts I have learned about bears:
They are more scared of you than vise versa
If they become comfortable or profit (ie scraps of food etc.) from you trouble is brewing.
If you see a black bear that is a good thing as there is less likely to be a grizzly around.

I was taught as a young boy that once a bear gets your scent you need to scare it away from your camp with as much noise and aggression as you can.(throwing rocks and sticks) 
Once he has your scent the bear will know you and be afraid of you.

I have had less than a dozen encounters with bears and bear and cubs over the last 50 years and have never been attacked by a bear and I have never killed a bear.  

Now with the show.
The bears got Tracy's scent the first night but she didn't scare them away so they came back.
Now the next night she used the flare and the horn. She would not have had a problem with the sow and cub again. She scared them off for good the night she tapped. 

It is poetic justice that the aggression she used on the bears the final night that would have kept them away for good was the aggression that haunted her inner demons and ended her stay. 

Just my 2 cents worth; heck round it up to a nickels worth.

----------


## WalkingTree

> have Never had a cooking area away from my camping area. Now bear bags and NO food of any kind in our tents was a standard rule


This sentence seems contradictory...I don't know if I'm reading it right. Also, by "now" do you mean "no"?

It reads like you're saying you don't bother doing cooking anywhere else other than your main camp site...but then that you don't have food at your main camp site. Are you drawing a difference between the cooking itself and the food storage?

----------


## Zylumn

> This sentence seems contradictory...I don't know if I'm reading it right. Also, by "now" do you mean "no"?
> 
> It reads like you're saying you don't bother doing cooking anywhere else other than your main camp site...but then that you don't have food at your main camp site. Are you drawing a difference between the cooking itself and the food storage?


Yes I should have reread after writing.

I have never set up another camp to just cook and eat.
We use a bear bag for all our food and garbage when we sleep. Bear bag is at the opposite side of the camp from the tents. 
No food allowed INSIDE the tents or shelters. 

One thing we have done was put a blanket of dry twigs and branches under the bear bag. if something does come into the camp you hear them. 

Hope I was clearer.

----------


## WalkingTree

Zylumn - Yea thanks. I think that what you're saying...what you told me earlier in this thread...is that at least in your experience cooking and eating in a separate location isn't necessary - that the fact that your site is your site, a bigger animal won't feel as comfortable invading your space because in your words it's "on the defensive". As long as you don't do something stupid to encourage it or reward it for doing so or not making a big fuss when it does come around.

----------


## Rick-SAR

I remember years ago at Philmont Boy Scout Ranch in New Mexico when 14 boy scouts were attacked by bears.  All attacks were at night.  All were hurt (I don't remember if any died).  It was determined that the boys were spilling some of their food on their shirts when they ate and the bears were attracted to the smell.  After the attacks any scout camping at Philmont had to change his shirt at night and put a shirt on that he (the campers) had not used when eating.  The shirts that they ate in were then put in bags and hosted up into a trees.  This move stopped the attacks.

I agree that it might me OK to cook in your shelter however, any food (or leftovers) should be kept away from where you sleep in bear country.

----------


## WalkingTree

Per an earlier idea I laid out elsewhere in here, I might still maintain more than one location...it's simply a matter of what each location is or is for, and how much work I do or don't need to put into it - one or two additional places would be very minimal. But really it's all about the idea that my main campsite is only a sleeping place which is weather-secure and predator-secure, and so forth...but I'm not trying to do all of my living there. I'm not building a place where I can do everything. I'm not expecting to have it big enough to house everything I have and everything I do under a roof. Same goes for it's perimeter fence. It would be ample for a little more than just sleeping...but otherwise it is just my sleeping place. It's not my whole house. The wilderness around me is my house - my home. I'm not there to hide at my sleeping place all day.

For example...when I catch me some kind of critter, because of sanitation in handling and the safe disposal of remains, I'd want to go immediately to a place which already has some stone or wood work surfaces, stocked fire material protected from the rain, fire pit, water storage capability and/or a stream that it'd be next to (a certain kind of tamped-dirt and stone-lined hole in the ground for water). I want to immediately clean that animal, wash my hands up, not have to touch too much until washing and while washing, not have to gather wood and prepare other things after catching that critter. And I want to do all this without a cougar coming up behind me too easily because my attention is focused on butchering this critter.

So, such a site wouldn't be anything that takes a lot of work or construction, and couldn't really be "messed up" by a bear playing with it while I'm not there...because in a sense there is nothing there. It may have some kind of caltrop/hedgehog fence, big flat stones or flat pieces of wood, pits in the ground, stacks of wood under something that generally sheds rain from it...if a bear were to play with all of this, all he would do is scatter the wood, mess up the pit in the ground, etc. I'd just re-dig that hole, re-stack that wood...whatever (might even pile up the caltrop/hedgehog thingamajigs together some distance away, and just lay out when I go to butcher something, so an animal doesn't get too familiar with how they "work" as an obstacle while I'm gone). And that "fence", if you could really call it that, wouldn't be left in a state trying to prevent an animal from getting "into" this area. It'd be left open intentionally. And even if that is messed up - what is it anyway? Some sticks and stuff, that just happens to be arranged in a certain way for a certain purpose, but not that it's really "messed up" when a bear knocks it around. Not a log cabin. It just serves a particular purpose while I'm there. Also...I'll always wash things in the stream, locate the big flat rock into the water after each use, spread ashes all over everything...whatever: There will still be the smell of something there to attract an animals curiosity, but he'll never be rewarded with anything actual, and while he looks around he's not going to intentionally carry my firewood a mile away or mess things up so bad I can't deal with it...he's not thinking about that. And the wood ash covering that smell that is turning him on might be enough to confuse him or eventually associate that with me and my main camp's scent as well as the fact that he never finds anything there when he snuffs about and knocks a few things around.

...that's my reasoning, anyway. Once out there, all plans would be adjusted according to the reality that is discovered. And as Zylumn says, I might find that I don't even need to do all this.

----------


## Batch

In Big Cypress Bear Island we have bears in our camp at night on a regular basis. We do not cook in a separate camp either.

The only way we even know that the bears came into camp is the fresh scat the next morning and sometimes prints around the perimeter of camp.

We do not bear proof anything, as we have never had a bear steal food. The park service has a dumpster and young bears have been videoed sliding between the dumpster and the plastic lid to get scraps. I think the bears work the perimeter of camp smelling out of curiosity and then leave. 

We see fresh (often with water seeping into the print just made in the mud) bear and panther prints every single day we are out there.

----------


## WalkingTree

(Batch)

Interesting. I don't know if I'd be brave or comfortable enough to not do _something_ by way of bear-deterring (or cougar, wolf, coon, etc)

Btw, could it be said that bears who're more 'wild' behave differently than those closer to civilization (hikers and dumpsters)?

----------


## kyratshooter

Been doing some research on the bear attack thing myself since my last real study was done almost 15 years ago.

I was amazed to find that most fatal bear attacks, over 70%, are against individuals that are *alone*.

Almost all the black bear fatalities were against single individuals.  

If more than one person is present the likely hood of an attack goes way down.

Two people are a pack, one person is a meal.

Majority of the attacks were individuals being dragged out of their tents and in most cases, day or night, they were actually consumed.

So the bears are after you as a food source, not hunting you for sport.

We might also note that the bears on Vancouver Island seem not at all disturbed by shouting and loud noises.  Neither were those that I encounter on the AT.  They just grunt and keep sniffing for food.

And remember, 20-30 people are killed every year by the family dog, so never underestimate a bear, even if he walks by your house daily.

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## NightSG

Rules say they can use whatever washes up on the beach.

With a half mil on the line, I wonder if anybody's pondered offering a buddy a cut to cruise by at night running silent and pitch some good stuff just offshore.

"Honest, mr. producer, this fully stocked cabin cruiser just washed up on the beach."

Wonder how that applies to stuff from the prohibited items list; there are sat phones and GPSs made to float, and IIRC, the AR7 had floating (in the stowed configuration) as a design requirement.  Any of those could be lost from a sinking boat or bush plane crash.

----------


## WalkingTree

...well then, this just renews my desire to construct an assortment of predator deterrents and practice certain protocols. Even if it's not needed. Better to have and not need, than the other way around. I guess I still hold the view that the chances of something aren't what's important, but the consequences and probable outcome are. Without some serious firepower and the skill and luck to go with it, if something as powerful as a bear decides that he wants you, you can hardly do anything about it - even with resourceful sticks-and-stones-and-flame contraptions it's going to be one heck of a fight to come out alive.

----------


## kyratshooter

I have a study from 2008 that reports 92% success with bear spray.

They don't talk about the other 8 out of 100.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0325171221.htm

Of course it is also partly anti gun propaganda.

67% success with guns.

Probably due to the fact the spray will be used on any bear getting too close to camp while guns are mostly used on attacking or charging bears that are already hyped up and would make up most of that 8% where the spray is noneffective.

----------


## WalkingTree

Just for the sake of mentioning it...we talk a lot about bears, but I've suspected that felines can be more of a worry. And in other threads in here I've seen that this may be true to some extent.

Aside from the expense, I'd want to have a few cans of bear spray, instead of just one or two. And would have two always ready to be grabbed and deployed quickly, instead of just one in a holster. Again, that much preparedness might never be needed, but I'd sure love the option being handy if it was.

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## NightSG

> Just for the sake of mentioning it...we talk a lot about bears, but I've suspected that felines can be more of a worry.


What size laser pointer does it take to distract a cougar?

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## hunter63

> What size laser pointer does it take to distract a cougar?


The sight on the AR 10...........
Here kitty, kitty,...........

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## WalkingTree

oh that's too funny

----------


## Batch

Our panthers are definitely less skittish than our bears. 

I have never experiences any aggressive behavior. My brother Sean has. But, I have seen indifference to humans.

Where bears will take off. I have had panthers take their time like they didn't care we were there.

----------


## edr730

The fear of the bear winnows out the chaff pretty quick.

----------


## NightSG

> Where bears will take off. I have had panthers take their time like they didn't care we were there.


To some extent, that's just standard feline behavior.  It knows it's the fastest, most agile SOB in the neighborhood and unless you're already within arm's reach, it can leave you in the dust any time it wants to.

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## WalkingTree

Something odd about me...at least according to some people...I can bark. Loud. Like a real dog. I figure I'd do some of that now and then if out there like on Alone. Might make a difference, in combination with other things.

...as long as it didn't just sound like a meal to something.

----------


## NightSG

> Something odd about me...at least according to some people...I can bark. Loud. Like a real dog.


Maybe you should work on honking like a goose.

Anything that's dealt with a combative goose will stay away.  Doesn't matter how big it is.

----------


## WalkingTree

I do have a pretty mean man-roar though...

...I had a job once in a building large enough for a few hundred workers where there was so much noise and everyone wore earplugs that all conversations were conducted by screaming at each other and making sure you were within 3 feet of the other person's face while doing so. There was this one guy who had been there a while, so he shoulda known better, and he had a horrible lazy attitude and kept screwing things up (not because he didn't know what he was doing, but because he needed an attitude adjustment) Finally I just started yelling at him from about 20 feet away. Kinda talked down to him pretty bad...eventually saying things like "don't just stand there staring at me, get that *censored* straightened out!" etc. Everybody in my area just stopped what they were doing and stared in my direction with funny looks on their faces, not able to understand how I was so loud or trying to figure out where the loud sound was coming from. Found out later that people on the other side of the building heard me.

So anyway...I wonder how that'd work on a predator. Might save me, might not.

----------


## Zylumn

> Btw, could it be said that bears who're more 'wild' behave differently than those closer to civilization (hikers and dumpsters)?


I'll reply about black bears!
On Alone we get to see humans try and eek out an existence for 40/50 days. What we don't see is bears thriving year round. Their type of diet Omnivore is very similar to the diet we need. They don't take holidays, or get social assistance or food stamps they work 18 to 20 hours a day. 
With that being said they will eat anything, they are perfect opportunists. They wouldn't brag about the one that got away because it didn't get away. Their whole nature is attack or retreat. With the amount of calories they need to consume every day for prep to hibernation and they are always hungry. 
Our trash is high in fat and sugar and after a very short time they become dependent. Then they riot, steal, vote in politicians that will give free stuff until they go too far and are "shot". 
Now a "wild" bear if you scare him good first contact it will go away and work 18-20 hours a day and live a long healthy life.   

You get the drift. LOL just some fun!!!

----------


## NightSG

I wonder if the timing of the filming is chosen to have the bears hibernating about the time the early tap-outs are done.  I didn't notice Alan or Sam having any bear issues after the first couple of weeks passed, and they were spending the majority of the time (at least what was on camera) in and near their shelters.  They don't mention actual dates anywhere that I've seen, so other than it getting colder and rainier 4-6 weeks in, there's not much to guess the season by.

----------


## edr730

Bears are curious and hungry in the spring. I found two attacks on vancouver islands history. One an old bear attacked a man on a boat and three other fisherman killed it with a hammer, a fillet knife and a fishing gaff. The other when a man was attacked in his tarp or tent, his buddy charged the bear and the man who was attacked found his knife and drove the bear off. I'm sure deer attacks occur also.

----------


## hunter63

> I'll reply about black bears!
> On Alone we get to see humans try and eek out an existence for 40/50 days. What we don't see is bears thriving year round. Their type of diet Omnivore is very similar to the diet we need. They don't take holidays, or get social assistance or food stamps they work 18 to 20 hours a day. 
> With that being said they will eat anything, they are perfect opportunists. They wouldn't brag about the one that got away because it didn't get away. Their whole nature is attack or retreat. With the amount of calories they need to consume every day for prep to hibernation and they are always hungry. 
> Our trash is high in fat and sugar and after a very short time they become dependent. Then they riot, steal, vote in politicians that will give free stuff until they go too far and are "shot". 
> Now a "wild" bear if you scare him good first contact it will go away and work 18-20 hours a day and live a long healthy life.   
> 
> You get the drift. LOL just some fun!!!


Soooo....You are implying that black bears are.........Democ.....(Oh wait that's political)........
Never Mind........




Sorry couldn't resist....LOLOLOLOLOL

----------


## NightSG

> Soooo....You are implying that black bears are.........Democ.....(Oh wait that's political)........


So I'd just need to scatter some job applications around my campsite to keep them away?

----------


## kyratshooter

Well, it is the afternoon of the day after the broadcast and no one has a comment about last night's episode?

My only comment is that if I ever consider attending the Boulder Survival School someone tie me to a tree here in Kentucky.  That bush hippy has no idea how to adapt to a new environment or operate out of his area of expertise.  Everyone else on Vancoer Island is dining on salmon and he is rejoicing over the presence of a flat mouse!  

And his comment about finally getting in rhythm with the land ???  He has eaten one mouse in 12 days!  Is the rhythm of the land starving?

And do none of these people connect the useless burning of calories with wearing clothes?  It is cold, wet, 50 degrees and they are on reduced calorie intake, but running around half naked, forcing their bodies to use energy in warming their cells.  

And the sniper building a gym???  You have to be kidding!  That is time that could be spent improving the shelter, gathering firewood, actively seeking food, building fish traps or any other of a dozen useful activities.

OK preserving mental health is a good thing as is looking at the long term, but building a gym and working out when you do not have a store of food and you are living under a flapping tarp proves your mental health is teetering on the edge to start with!

Thankfully, I did not have to hear about Baaaarb-ra this week.

----------


## chiggersngrits

I agree the guy that burnt up his fire starter is not working on fishing enough. But he does seem to be building a decent shelter, as well as the safari guide lady.
 They are giving Dave a lot of air time which is usually a bad sign. He seems to be laying around alot. Hopefully he will get his second wind. I have gone 5-7 days without eating several times, not by choice. And about the 3rd or 4th day I would start to adjust to it and be able to do something other than lay around.
 Sniper guy, not sure. Maybe it is a good strategy mentally but I agree he should use that energy for more constructive purposes.

----------


## crashdive123

I agree with the above.  I still believe that sniper dude is risking a mechanical injury from his shelter location.  Adding a playground with Tarzan swing is only going to increase the odds of that becoming a reality.

----------


## Winter

Yeah, sniper guy is just not thinking clearly. The workout should have been done, but, every log lifted should have been brought back for firewood, every stone lifted should have been brought back to reinforce the firepit so it doesn't sink. 

(firepits around here sink into the ground because the ground is not really dirt, it's a stack of organic debris, and if you have a fire in one place for a few days, it will sink clear down to the rock unless you refill the pit with rock)

Right now, all the shelters are better shelters than season 1's. 

Nicole it doing it right with the continuous improvements. She also made a cot which will help a great deal.

I'm looking forward to the contestants narrowing down so we can get more screen time for those who are better at this game.

----------


## Zylumn

> Well, it is the afternoon of the day after the broadcast and no one has a comment about last night's episode?
> 
> My only comment is that if I ever consider attending the Boulder Survival School someone tie me to a tree here in Kentucky.  That bush hippy has no idea how to adapt to a new environment or operate out of his area of expertise.  Everyone else on Vancoer Island is dining on salmon and he is rejoicing over the presence of a flat mouse!  
> 
> And his comment about finally getting in rhythm with the land ???  He has eaten one mouse in 12 days!  Is the rhythm of the land starving?
> 
> And do none of these people connect the useless burning of calories with wearing clothes?  It is cold, wet, 50 degrees and they are on reduced calorie intake, but running around half naked, forcing their bodies to use energy in warming their cells.  
> 
> And the sniper building a gym???  You have to be kidding!  That is time that could be spent improving the shelter, gathering firewood, actively seeking food, building fish traps or any other of a dozen useful activities.
> ...


Totally agree.

My Take:

Randy-  Won't be long on this show I predict. He expends 8-10,000 calories making a shelter that is so flimsy I wouldn't let my horse in there much less keeping it warm. Man if you are going to do something DO IT RIGHT.

Justin- Are you freakin kidding me with setting up a gym. Running back to his shelter because of the storm and then complaining "because of the storm" he wont be able to get food today. Justin your brain won't starve for food because it will cannibalize all that pretty muscle you are trying to produce. 

David- The real reason you haven't had money so your family can live better is your a LAZY ***. If your going to lay around Do it with a fishing pole in your hands. You catch a fish you then put the hook back in the water for another. No thoughts for the future with this guy ( no wait he is a post-apocalyptic fiction writer. oh my bad)

Nicole- Good on you girl you just stepped up a couple notches in my book. Shelter OK, Your caution when cutting up the fish. Well done.

Jose- Doin what it takes to take care of business. He has been the only one so far to address stock piling reserves for the winter

You are starting to see the Characters set themselves up for after the show win or lose. 
Justin-gym franchise
David- He is going to write a book
Nicole- Poster girl for a MS or Cancer charity
Randy- Instruction manuals on (how to build a shelter and how to catch a fish) He is working on the how to now by trial and error.
Jose- Like Sam (season1) said: he could do beer commercials Dos Equis they do need a new Spanish front man. 
Mike- Anything that will make Barbara proud of him
Larry- Anger management classes

----------


## WalkingTree

> Well, it is the afternoon of the day after the broadcast and no one has a comment about last night's episode?


I only just now got to watch it myself. I have to wait till history unlocks it the day after on their site.

I love that quote by gandhi - Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.

Justin - Well, he's just a kid having fun out there. Or maybe he's trying to be entertaining for the viewers. Making sure people remember him. But, yes, a gym? When you're living such a physically active lifestyle, you don't need a gym. That life is a gym. That environment is a gym. Every log and stone moved for survival purposes, not making a playground, is a workout. The place is already a playground...is already "fun", as far as I would be concerned. As far as it isn't a life-or-death chore. But maybe he's just loosening up, and we'll see him kick butt later. Maybe he's so ok out there, and we don't know it, that he thinks that he just doesn't have to worry so much. Maybe the very fact that he runs around in shorts and makes tarzan swings, and is still in good spirits, is because he is on a different energy level and this stuff just isn't a big deal to him. Compared to David just bending over and standing up...and getting a head rush or dizzy. I do find myself wondering how a big metal chain washed up onto a beach...hehe. And a pull up bar? There're no tree limbs already at the right height and angle for doing pull ups?

And you know what? Being able to piss in the middle of the night without leaving shelter, for having a fancy kelp urinal, might be kinda comfy.

David - If you don't want to be the dad who says no for being broke, then get up and get some food. But this is why I think this stuff being on a t.v. show...there being cameras...taints it some. He can comment on all this stuff on camera, but not get to work...if the camera wasn't there, if you weren't aware of the camera, would you behave differently? Per my thread on the subject, can they design these things differently to take away some of that effect? He reflects on camera that he wants to do well. But he doesn't do so...so far at least. And we know that he can.

Nicole, those bears are keeping an eye on you and your fish. Better change things up in some way girlfriend. But, you did get a big ole fish. I was surprised that it was still there.

Randy - I'm glad that he seems to have a certain attitude. He decided to not whine about his firestarter, and he got to work. Homeboy made a full fledged log cabin style house (kinda sorta). And that fire was still there...without a firestarter. I think that Nicole's log-ish shelter is kinda nifty though too.

And man...*blank* a mouse. A darned ole flattened mouse. Takes more calories just to look at it than you get. *blank* a little mouse, Sam. Go get some *food*, guys. You know how. And you can. So do it.

Btw, seeing the storms out there...my god, that's so exhiliarating. I'd love it so much. I've been there at least enough to know. I know this is supposed to be tough, and it is, but some things a person just knows about themself. Mmmm.

Jose, what can I say 'bout him. Keep on trucking brother. Gettin er done. He says "It's raining hard. But I'm eating salmon, so I don't care." And mr. man eats with chop sticks too, yo. Word.

All in all, I feel like we might have almost half a dozen folks lasting quite a while. Might be a long season for history channel. 'Slong as they don't start whining so much about the solitude. Really...I don't get that. I mean...who flipping cares. Again, I myself am not anti social nor introverted...but who cares?! Loneliness? What? What're you talking about?? And if your deal is missing or worrying about your family...it's half a million dollars people! (forgetting the taxes of course) That would be bringing home the bacon. So shut up and man up. Geez. Daddy (or momma) gets to do something awesome, *and* bring home some real money. C'mon. Sorry, but I *can* say this - even with my ignorance and inexperience, I would kick this show's butt. (Assuming that in reality, I'd crash course myself in certain things if I knew I was going to do it.) Remember...this is t.v. for people who don't really know what's up - I mentioned this topic in a casual gathering, and the first response I got was bear grylls. Oh yea, just like bear grylls. I love him. Wilderness survival just like bear grylls, right? Yea, right. The guy who creates sensationalism out of drinking your own pee to survive.

And...um...hehe...your *mamma* talks too much.  :Lol: 

Respectfully.

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## Grizz123

From what I've seen so far every one of them have very poor knife skills, as in they are trying to hurt themselves

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## NightSG

> And you know what? Being able to piss in the middle of the night without leaving shelter, for having a fancy kelp urinal, might be kinda comfy.


Having crawled out of a sleeping bag kept very toasty by a (literally) hot little platinum blonde to do what is necessary after doing certain other things, only to find a heavy layer of frost on the inside of the tent, I would really like to have found a bottle.  Sticking it out the tent flap only to have it come back in of its own accord isn't fun at all, especially when one is damp with sweat and trying not to open the tent any more than absolutely necessary due to the painfully cold draft.
OTOH, at least on the show I wouldn't have had to stand there in the cold debating between risking the embarrassment of her waking up when I got back in the bag and commenting on the shrinkage, or getting dressed and heading back to my own campsite.
Or does that "any resources that wash up on the beach" include 19 year old beach bunnies?   :Big Grin:

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## Rick

What channel was that on?

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## crashdive123

Same one that carries.........



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## hunter63

That show is on CBS on Wednesday nights.......and just wrapped up with a million dollar winner.....

I have watched "Survivor" since the beginning.....so y'all can guffaw and watch the whining in the rain...I stick with the beach bunnies in bikinis.....

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## WalkingTree

Ricardo Montalban. Just wasn't enough of him in serious roles. Was always too cool.

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## crashdive123

> That show is on CBS on Wednesday nights.......and just wrapped up with a million dollar winner.....
> 
> I have watched "Survivor" since the beginning.....so y'all can guffaw and watch the whining in the rain...I stick with the beach bunnies in bikinis.....


There's still hope for us.  The 71 year old guy went pretty far.  Guess he didn't get the memo about getting voted out early and then sipping cold ones at the resort for the next month.

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## finallyME

> Well, it is the afternoon of the day after the broadcast and no one has a comment about last night's episode?


I didn't get to see it until Saturday, and then now is the first chance I have had to comment. 

Jose finally got some air time, but only for a few minutes.  He looks like he is rockin' it though.  With the amount of air time that he is getting, and how well he seems to be fairing, my guess right now is that he wins it.

Randy does look weak.  He isn't eating much, and his shelter doesn't look well thought out.  Maybe he is only used to small trees in Southern Utah.  But, like you said, that means he doesn't adapt well, which really is what survival is about... how fast can you adapt.  But, I am impressed with how well he is doing.  He fixed his fire problem instead of quitting...like someone else.  He is trying to figure it out.

Nicole has been impressive, especially with her massive shelter.

But, I still haven't seen any decent roofs.  They all just use the tarps.  No one is mixing the tarps with building materials to make a roof that doesn't have to be tied out and one that can take heavy wind.  Also, they need more thickness in the roof for insulation.

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## Grizz123

I would like to see more from Mike, he had a nice camp site, goals, and skills. But he is always complaining about being away from his wife, I think he will tap out

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## Zylumn

I would like to see more innovations on this show. Like a smoker or a stove, hypocaust, sauna, lobster/fish traps, etc. Other than some work on shelters no one seems to be storing goods (whether it be plants or meat) for the winter ahead. Other than David making a needle and a gill net (which was good) but it would have been easier to make a gill net with the tie method instead of the weave.  Also very little rock work done? 
I guess no one plans to be there very long.

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## WalkingTree

> ...I still haven't seen any decent roofs.  They all just use the tarps...


I keep having similar thoughts when I watch these things. About the tarps and roofs, and about the gill nets and hooks/lines.

It's good to not scorn any tools or technology when you're camping or in a real survival situation...unless you're specifically trying to be minimalistic or primitive for whatever reason. However, when you're doing something like the show Alone, it's just another thing about how participants do things that seems odd or not befitting because *1)* you're competing, trying to outlast, and I'd find it easy to build a roof with natural material and then have the tarp for other things. And *2)* these are people who're supposed to know about this stuff and be capable, and relying on a tarp for rain-shedding suggests that you don't know how to do it otherwise as well as not seeing how useful the tarp is for other things when you don't need it for a roof anyway, or you're just not understanding the situation, not taking it seriously, and being lazy.

I feel similarly about gill nets and hooks and lines. I'd use those things, but I wouldn't have the attitude that they're my only lifeline - like the difference between crying and giving up because your firestarter is gone, and knowing how to do it another way and continuing. If you're lucky enough, or good enough, that they're working at a particular time for fishing, then fine. But otherwise when it takes so much time and effort sometimes to obtain sustenance, fish trap baskets and modifying the shore for trapping is just so darned easy to craft. And I'd do that stuff simply to place my bets on multiple spots on the table so that no matter where that roulette ball lands, I've got some darned food. And really in some respects I consider that easier and more efficient than messing around with a net or lines and hooks.

I'd almost *prefer* using these other methods of fishing, instead of the net or hooks. Not immediately, but eventually, for any kind of long term by any definition, and especially when doing an Alone competition. Just like with a tarp roof - I'd immediately put together a decent debris hut which incorporated the tarp, because the whole purpose of a first debris hut is to have something ample as quick as you can (and definitely not just stringing up the tarp and stopping there, ugh). But as soon as that was done I'd already be starting on something that takes more time but would be much more life-sustaining and for a longer stay...warm, dry, stable against storms, some degree of protection from various critters...and this very simply just does not require a tarp. Additionally, a tarp isn't really that good anyway. Even incorporating it brings drawbacks, so I'd just not use it at all. If a tarp was useless for anything else, that'd be a different story. But that's not the case.

To be fair, these people haven't been there that long yet. Remember how a day can go by fast without doing much when hunger and thirst and lack of good sleep tries to prevail - when you're not screwing around building pull up bars and tarzan swings, that is. But it still makes me want to repeat some observations:

-- They get people for these shows who're supposed to be capable in these areas (or should be). But we keep seeing that usually they just aren't - not because it's harder than we know and it's easy to say so from our armchairs, but we observe them not even trying in the first place. They don't even try to do the simplest and basic things. Or they have the most disappointing attitudes - crybaby, spoiled, drama queen attitudes. I seem to see the perpetuated belief that being an 'outdoorsy' person, living on a farm, being a weekend camper or a hunter, etc...equates to having any sense or capability when it comes to primitive wilderness survival scenarios. And this belief is just plain false. They might have more points in their favor than an urbanite who freaks out at the sight of a bug 5 feet away or being the slightest bit inconvenienced outside of their modern climate control and doesn't know the first thing about animals or dirt or fire, etc...but this is very far and away from what it takes and from the criteria that I'd use to vet a participant in such a thing.

-- Apparently "primitive skills" really are more uncommon and fleeting, and more misunderstood, than one may assume. Being a minimalistic camper, or a hunter, or living on a farm...is *not* "primitive skills". No matter how much we can say that the word/concept "primitive" is relative...being completely helpless without your bic lighter or fire starter, or not knowing how to build a shelter in the woods without a tarp, or not trying to fish without a net and hooks and lines, when you're in a long term survival situation or doing so for an Alone competition, *is* a lack of primitive skills ability. You can live on a farm, hunt squirrels or bears, live off the grid...and still be an inept babe as much as the urbanite if put into something like Alone.

-- How people define the term 'common sense' can be vague, arbitrary, and inconsistent. But I'm going to use that term here to mean a certain thing. Knowledge and intelligence are two very different things. It's a difference between data, and thinking. And having some experience or exposure never did intrinsically imply that a person has any sense or ability. Having knowledge, and having experiential knowledge, is *definitely* a good thing, not to be scorned by any means. But this does very little good if you don't have a certain attitude, maturity, and predisposition...if you aren't able to be creative, improvisational, and positive/optimistic, despite your knowledge and even with a lack of it. And in these ways, I'm saying that the real ingredient is *having some sense* - having a creative ability, being able to figure something out, and naturally not having any latent defeatist tendencies waiting for an excuse to come out whenever pretenses of comfort or image are gone. Having some real sense is *understanding* what's going on underneath the various methods and techniques of minimalistic or primitive survival, so that you can figure out something else and make it work whenever you have to step outside of your simple knowledge base because conditions aren't as they'd be in a controlled demonstration, or your usual tools or techniques that you're proficient with aren't available.

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## NightSG

> I stick with the beach bunnies in bikinis.....


Who said anything about letting her have a bikini?

(And for the record, I was ~22 at the time.  I only rarely manage to get dates with 19 year olds anymore.)

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## NightSG

> But, I still haven't seen any decent roofs.  They all just use the tarps.  No one is mixing the tarps with building materials to make a roof that doesn't have to be tied out and one that can take heavy wind.  Also, they need more thickness in the roof for insulation.


Not that I wouldn't use the tarp, but I'd have it between two layers of thatch; inside for insulation and to shed any water that gets through if the tarp is damaged, and outside to protect it from hail, falling branches, etc. and keep it from flapping in the wind.  Using "safe" stuff like pine needles for the outer thatch means you can still catch water from it too.




> Also very little rock work done?


I'd hold off the sculpture garden until after the heated pool is done.




> And I'd do that stuff simply to place my bets on multiple spots on the table so that no matter where that roulette ball lands, I've got some darned food. And really in some respects I consider that easier and more efficient than messing around with a net or lines and hooks.


Nets can also be used for land hunting, so I'd probably want at least a couple, though I don't think multiples would be a first-week priority.  The big benefit of gill net fishing is that it's very low maintenance unless it gets damaged; you just set it up and then go get the food out of it daily.  No resetting a deadfall or having to sit and watch for game to wander by.

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## hunter63

> Who said anything about letting her have a bikini?
> 
> (And for the record, I was ~22 at the time.  I only rarely manage to get dates with 19 year olds anymore.)


Me either...nor do I really want one....

Kinda whiney about cell coverage, ...I can't stand rap music, an my idea of "sensuous"...is "since-you-was" up, get me another Brewski....that doesn't translate well.
Oh yeah, pacemaker batteries are kinda pricy

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## finallyME

> Not that I wouldn't use the tarp, but I'd have it between two layers of thatch; inside for insulation and to shed any water that gets through if the tarp is damaged, and outside to protect it from hail, falling branches, etc. and keep it from flapping in the wind.  Using "safe" stuff like pine needles for the outer thatch means you can still catch water from it too.


That is what I was trying to say.... you just said it better.  :Smile:

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## NightSG

Another thing I've noticed is putting on the coat and such, then wading into waist deep water.
Maybe it's just modesty in front of the cameras, but even then, just wearing underwear in the water at least keeps the rest of the clothes dry, and all of that warmth is lost in the water anyway unless you happen to be wearing a wet suit.  Shuck 'em, work fast, and dress as soon as you can shake off most of the water.

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## WalkingTree

> Another thing I've noticed is putting on the coat and such, then wading into waist deep water.
> Maybe it's just modesty in front of the cameras, but even then, just wearing underwear in the water at least keeps the rest of the clothes dry, and all of that warmth is lost in the water anyway unless you happen to be wearing a wet suit.  Shuck 'em, work fast, and dress as soon as you can shake off most of the water.


Yea...what's up with that nonsense anyway?

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## NightSG

> Yea...what's up with that nonsense anyway?


Maybe I'm just used to caving wisdom; in natural cave, you strip to swim to minimize the amount of mud or dust from your clothes that gets in the water, and (if anything's still remotely dry anyway) to keep them from getting even more soaked.  Obviously you're still going to have mud on you, but what sticks to your skin is a lot less than what's ground into your clothes after even a short crawl.  Modesty is a concept for comfortable situations.  When anything starts getting extreme, you need to be ready to accept that nudity is the more effective way to do some things.  (Like short trips out of the shelter in pouring rain...especially potty trips where you're going to spend even more time trying to get the rainsuit open so you can pee.)

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## WalkingTree

Yes, on everything.

Except this


> to minimize the amount of mud or dust from your clothes that gets in the water, and (if anything's still remotely dry anyway) to keep them from getting even more soaked. Obviously you're still going to have mud on you, but what sticks to your skin is a lot less than what's ground into your clothes after even a short crawl


I don't know what's going on here. I think you're talking about something I don't know about. And what's caving?

Do you mean underwater cave exploring? You can't let clouds of dirt be in the water because you can't see, etc? (just had that thought as soon as I posted)

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## Zylumn

> Another thing I've noticed is putting on the coat and such, then wading into waist deep water.
> Maybe it's just modesty in front of the cameras, but even then, just wearing underwear in the water at least keeps the rest of the clothes dry, and all of that warmth is lost in the water anyway unless you happen to be wearing a wet suit.  Shuck 'em, work fast, and dress as soon as you can shake off most of the water.


By wearing a coat it looks like Jose kept his upper core warm. The producers put time lines on the screen and this note ( hypothermia will set in after 50 minutes of exposure to the water  ). He was in the water for over 2 hours. I am sure he had a way to dry out his wet clothing. If he would have had even the start of hypothermia setting in he would have been still shivering 4 or 5 hours later. Seeing him eating a couple hours later with chop sticks without even a tremor convinced me he did the right thing.

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## hunter63

> ................  When anything starts getting extreme, you need to be ready to accept that nudity is the more effective way to do some things.  (Like short trips out of the shelter in pouring rain...especially potty trips where you're going to spend even more time trying to get the rainsuit open so you can pee.)


Ever notice that you don't get cold..... till after to finish?......Just thought It would bring that up.

Oh yeah, pee jug is a good idea.

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## NightSG

> Do you mean underwater cave exploring? You can't let clouds of dirt be in the water because you can't see, etc? (just had that thought as soon as I posted)


Underwater caving is a whole different critter.  I'm talking about regular caves where you'll be crawling through the dirt, then come to a place where you have to cross clear water.  It's less about visibility than just about not wanting to contaminate water deep in the cave with an assortment of dirt from the entrance on in.

I don't think this pool actually blocks the passage, but it's not uncommon for a swim to be the least damaging way to cross an area with a lot of delicate formations.  This is Lechuguilla Cave in New Mexico, 130 miles of passages mapped so far, 1600' deep, and kept pretty wild by limited access, (and a 90' entrance drop) so contaminating a pool with dirt from other areas of the cave could be a huge loss, to the research potential if nothing else.  There's a huge amount of microbiological research being done there due to the remoteness of the cave and some really interesting bacteria feeding on various minerals in the deeper parts.
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## WalkingTree

...130 miles of passages mapped so far...freaking wow.

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## Rick

And to think that the oil from your fingertip can stop a stalagmite from growing. Something that has been in the works hundreds or thousands of years stopped in its tracking by a single touch.

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## crashdive123

Kind of like when Betty Sue........oops......never mind.

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## NightSG

> And to think that the oil from your fingertip can stop a stalagmite from growing. Something that has been in the works hundreds or thousands of years stopped in its tracking by a single touch.


Won't really stop it, but definitely can change the way it grows.  IIRC, there's somewhere that has an accelerated process (unintentional, but created by acidic water seeping through concrete like the ones under the Lincoln Memorial) where they've been able to document the effect on formations growing at ~1/4" a year or so, and it can leave a mark or change the growth pattern to be lopsided.

The effectively closed microbiological environments are much more fragile, educational, and potentially useful than the rock formations in most cases, though.

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## kaze

After watching 5 episodes, I wish they show more scenes with survival skills being display rather than just showing them talking about their state of mind.  I enjoy watching them do small tasks.  I hope the later episodes will display more of it.  But so far, I am enjoying the show.  I'm rooting for Nicole and Justin.  I like their attitudes.  But I think Jose and Mike are the top contenders.  If I could change one thing about this show, I would remove gillnets from the list of possible items you can take.  Fishing lines and hooks are allow but no gillnets.  Of course you can construct your own gillnets from material found.  Gillnets just make things too easy and doesn't challenge the contestants to be creative and demonstrate their adaptability.

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## Zylumn

> If I could change one thing about this show, I would remove gillnets from the list of possible items you can take.  .


Good idea but take it a step farther and also remove Ferro Rods/ Lighters. It would quickly weed out the Utube survival expert by day and Hilton resident by night.

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## WalkingTree

I guess that's what's coming next - something somewhere between the Naked & Afraid concept and the Alone concept.

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## kyratshooter

Removing the fire making gear is not the separation of the wannabes from the experts.  Any true woodsman is going to have fire making gear with them every time they walk out the door.  Not having ferro rod or lighter would be the indication that they did not know what they were doing.

As for the gill nets, well they were probably in use by primitive people before fishhooks were thought of.  They are used by every culture that eats fish so why remove a key article used worldwide?  Anyone entering that ecosphere and facing a possible survival situation would have a gill net in their gear.

I think you guys just enjoy seeing people suffer.

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## crashdive123

Keep in mind what this show is.  It is called alone for a reason.  It is a show about being alone and isolated in the wilderness in conditions that make daily living difficult.  It is not a show to demonstrate to the public ways of doing various aspects of bushcraft or wilderness survival.....although we get to see quite a few aspects of that.  Being alone, truly alone for extended periods of time is what most people have not experienced.

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## kaze

> As for the gill nets, well they were probably in use by primitive people before fishhooks were thought of.  They are used by every culture that eats fish so why remove a key article used worldwide?  Anyone entering that ecosphere and facing a possible survival situation would have a gill net in their gear.
> 
> I think you guys just enjoy seeing people suffer.


I'm not saying you can't use gillnets, you just can't bring one with you.  Look at Justin, he's making his own gillnet.  That's demonstrate his knowledge and adaptability.  No one wants them to suffer, hence why they are permitted with fishing strings and hooks which can easily catch fish using many forms of fishing techniques.  If you look at many tribes around the world, rarely do they have gillnets, most construct fishing traps with natural materials like fish baskets.  They would use spears or harpoons to fish.  Gillnets are mainly use by commercial fishermen.  That's why in many parts of United States, they don't permit the use of gillnets for fishing by regular citizens.  It's too effective and hurt the fish population.  If you're argument is that gillnets are used around the world for many centuries, then should we let them all have fishing boats too?  At the same time you argue for ferro rods which is a modern invention.  Should we give them all flint and steel instead? Of course not, because that would make things way too hard.  Likewise, gillnets makes things way too easy for these so-called "experts".  Notice how most contestants rely heavily on their gillnets.  The show is basically about sitting and waiting in their make-shift shelter and let the gillnets do all the work.  Imagine if they don't have their gillnets?  They would have to use their skill and knowledge to make one or another forms of fishing traps.  Actually forces these expert contestants to use their skillsets to compete.  Any regular joe can just set a gillnets and catch food .  I don't think this show is about that.  It's about surviving the longest with your skills as a survivalist against other survivalist entirely alone.  It's a more entertaining show if they are actually require to put some effort into catching their meals.  That's why I was happy when Alan won last season, he was the only one who actually made his own fish traps.  The water bottle fish trap was brilliant.

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## NightSG

> As for the gill nets, well they were probably in use by primitive people before fishhooks were thought of.  They are used by every culture that eats fish so why remove a key article used worldwide?  Anyone entering that ecosphere and facing a possible survival situation would have a gill net in their gear.


More to the point, they use up a massive amount of cordage.  While so far, it seems like everybody's found plenty, that's hardly guaranteed, (unless the producers occasionally toss something on the beach to keep it even, which is a definite possibility) so you'd need to let them take a lot more cordage than the list currently allows for in order to make building nets a reasonable expectation.

Personally, yes, I'd take one so I could get one in the water right away, but then I'd also dedicate a good bit of any found small cordage to making more.  Keeping busy until the weather gets too bad to be out and around seems to be a key to not getting too focused on what you're missing out on back home.  Laying in food right before winter means you can stay warm and dry while working on indoor projects when outdoor ones are too risky.

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## WalkingTree

Yea, being alone is a deal. Having just one or two others with you makes a world of difference. But what surprises me is how much some of the folks are affected by the solitude. Having other folks with you makes a huge difference in practical matters, but how much it affects the morale or psychological stability of some of them...I wouldn't have expected. That might just be because I'm not someone for whom that'd be a handicap.

But also, it's to be expected that we'd still want to see some 'primitive' bushcrafting demonstrated a little more. I think some of us haven't recovered from the disappointment of N&A in this department. A lot of that show saw people not even trying. That was hard as heck, literally having almost nothing, but they didn't even demonstrate much of an attempt or knowledge/ability base.

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## NightSG

> But also, it's to be expected that we'd still want to see some 'primitive' bushcrafting demonstrated a little more. I think some of us haven't recovered from the disappointment of N&A in this department. A lot of that show saw people not even trying. That was hard as heck, literally having almost nothing, but they didn't even demonstrate much of an attempt or knowledge/ability base.


I'm thinking maybe they should put all that extra footage we haven't seen to use as a topical series of specials; two hours of Alone shelter building, two hours of Alone bushcraft tool making, etc.

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## WalkingTree

I've long since thought that they're keeping the door open for retrospective shows later...with all that extra footage they probably have, we might see loads more stuff later when they want to bring in more income.

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## pmcjuryny

> Yea, being alone is a deal. Having just one or two others with you makes a world of difference. But what surprises me is how much some of the folks are affected by the solitude. Having other folks with you makes a huge difference in practical matters, but how much it affects the morale or psychological stability of some of them...I wouldn't have expected. That might just be because I'm not someone for whom that'd be a handicap.
> 
> But also, it's to be expected that we'd still want to see some 'primitive' bushcrafting demonstrated a little more. I think some of us haven't recovered from the disappointment of N&A in this department. A lot of that show saw people not even trying. That was hard as heck, literally having almost nothing, but they didn't even demonstrate much of an attempt or knowledge/ability base.


Being alone for an extended period is hard, it goes against our very nature. This combined with the limited mobility will take a toll on nearly anyone. This goes doubly for people that are used to having others around, and have close connections to people.

Add in the fact that the only way to get any human contact, is to give up and admit you failed at your task and I can certainly see how it could be a crushing burden

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## Grizz123

those left seem to be doing well, except for the guy that needs anger management classes. Although he did trek to another area and that may help but I think his emotions will ruin his ability to think straight and he will tap out

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## finallyME

Randy looks like he will tap soon, but you never know.  He might decide to stick around.

Everyone they showed last night seemed to be doing well.  All seemed to be getting enough food.  It is kind of impressive, and what I was expecting in season 1.

In the footage that previews the next show, it shows David struggling to find food.

As for being alone, we just weren't made for that.  For myself, I like to at least bring a dog with me.

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## Zylumn

Just watched Episode 5.

This was the "boost the ratings show" with as much emotional aspects as they could cram in a 40 minute segment.

Mike: Wow what a find. That tub has so many uses. Everything from preserving live fish to lobster trap and of course boat.

Nicole: That is such a good spot to have her gill net. She has had a pretty easy time of it so far.

Larry: He is going to injure himself with his anger. I was wondering about his trekking through dense forest with a full pack but it paid off. 

Randy: He is on the verge of tapping and trying to convince and justify to us and himself to do so. 

Jose: Small cracks are starting to show but he seems still in control of his emotions. Looking forward to watching him build a real boat. 

We never got to see Justin or David so they must be moving along.

In conclusion: Mike and Jose are the only ones to address the need to stock pile food for the winter and implement strategies to accomplish it.

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## kyratshooter

OK it's official now.

There are a some people on the show that I simply do not like.

Larry is an @hole.  Vile vulgar and obscene. The fact that he is going to have to work for a living for the rest of his days is eating him alive.  He's too good for that life.  Perfect example of when we tell people wanting to ROTTW that they only take their problems with them.  He does not even see it but his early references to "changing his life" means he has been warned.  

Randy is a weak@$$ bush hippie.  Participation trophies have been good enough for him all his life and quitting is not failure, it is leaving while still in charge. He still gets a participation trophy and the great experience of being there.

Mike I simply can not stand and I fear he will last for a long time making my stomach heave through each episode.

The rest are doing better than I expected.

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## NightSG

> Being alone for an extended period is hard, it goes against our very nature. This combined with the limited mobility will take a toll on nearly anyone. This goes doubly for people that are used to having others around, and have close connections to people.


That was worse in first season; as far as I could tell, Alan was the only one without a close family member either pregnant or dying.

IMO, I could do it right now, but if I knew before leaving that the size of my close family would be changing soon, that would likely be too heavy of a burden to even go.  I wonder if they have an alternate or two in case someone decides not to go at the last minute.

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## finallyME

> Larry is an @hole.  Vile vulgar and obscene. The fact that he is going to have to work for a living for the rest of his days is eating him alive.  He's too good for that life.  Perfect example of when we tell people wanting to ROTTW that they only take their problems with them.  He does not even see it but his early references to "changing his life" means he has been warned.


What do you mean by being warned?  I agree with you on Larry.  He is very negative.  I would not like to live with him.  I feel for his kids having to live with that.

----------


## Zylumn

> He does not even see it but his early references to "changing his life" means he has been warned.


You are right on with this statement. His comments about having to work for another 15 years etc. etc. had me thinking then that this whole ALONE experience was an escape from anger issues with employers, spouse, or law enforcement. It's not working. Hopefully he doesn't go "POSTAL" when he taps.

----------


## kyratshooter

> What do you mean by being warned?  I agree with you on Larry.  He is very negative.  I would not like to live with him.  I feel for his kids having to live with that.




He is half an empty nest, and just like he spoke of "enduring going to the job when it was more than just himself", making the sacrifice for his kids, he already considers himself single. 

He does not consider his wife worth the same sacrifice he made for his children and the words "You are going to change or leave" are probably ringing in his ears all the way out on Vancouver Island.  (any woman I have ever been in a relationship with would hear that "not worth it" speech as a personal insult and my stuff would have been a big yard sale before I got home)

He came on the quest to change his life.  He thought the drastic change in environment would make it easier.  Instead, he has decided he is what he is.  

I am reminded of the old Cosby joke about taking cocaine (in this case being alone); 

It accents your personality!

But what if you're an @$$hole?

----------


## finallyME

That's kinda what I was thinking, but sometimes you old guys speak in code.

His negativity is toxic.  I wouldn't even be able to work with him on a short term basis, let alone live with him day to day.  If his wife is tired of him, and his kids are gone, they might have already made the decision. 

I believe people can change....which is completely different than "This is what I am, I was born this way".  I wish him the best and hope he figures it out.... although I doubt that will happen on this show.

----------


## RobinD69

I like Mike and Jose the rest are a joke.

----------


## WalkingTree

So how many calories do you burn dancing in a boat for 5 minutes? 15 or 20?

Nicole's gonna come home with a bear pet.

How are some of them so bored? Why do they "dwell" on thoughts? I'd just space out on the environment. Meditate. It'd be beautiful. Forget the "thoughts" and dwelling crap.

Again, missing people, I understand. But how...in...the....world...can that beautiful place be depressing, just because of seclusion?? 

Watching a Larry-segment is one filled with bleeps and bleeps. It's a bleep fest. That's entertaining. I wonder if he talks to his woman and kids with that mouth. Hey Larry, life isn't the mundane job, it is those weekends, and that family...it's not the time at work, it's all that other time away from work. With that family. Whether you do something fantastic or not. That's why you work.

You might not like watching me on there though kyrashooter. I'm a cusser myself. But I don't cuss because of being frustrated or impatient. Don't hardly get that way. But I say a few cuss words now and then as part of normal language.

I do like Larry's new spot. Looks nice in many ways.

Thank you for tuning in to WKRXY. I'd like to dedicate this next track to Larry - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcu6Gc5sCU

----------


## NightSG

> Thank you for tuning in to WKRXY. I'd like to dedicate this next track to Larry - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcu6Gc5sCU


Actually, I was thinking more along these lines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Ed0TSp0gs

----------


## RobinD69

Now I realize that this show is supposed to be entertaining but I also believe it is to limiting. I personally carry an EDC which I would have to give up to be on the show. To go even further I would have to give up my 24hr pack, my 72hr pack and my BOB which to me is very limiting. Now if they really want to be authentic then why not put them out there with just the clothes on their back. The 3 who have already tapped out were not ready to begin with just like those in season 1. How about an authentic show with those who are truly willing to live alone, who are true survivalist.

----------


## crashdive123

For what the show intends, I believe it is very authentic.  Gear is just gear.  Skills are just skills.  Sometimes one will have more or less of either.  That isn't what the show is about though.  Being ALONE is, and it is the one thing that most have not done for extended periods of time.

We had a thread several years ago (couldn't find it) started by Sourdough asking what was the longest period you spent in the wilderness with absolutely no human contact.  Miles and miles from civilization with nothing but your own thoughts.  Most of the responses IIRC  were less than two weeks.

----------


## WalkingTree

NightSG, I guess I don't get it. Morse code? You mean the bleeps? If so, then I guess I do get it. And that's funny.

----------


## WalkingTree

I guess we have to skip a Thursday.

----------


## finallyME

> I guess we have to skip a Thursday.


 :Frown:  I know right!

----------


## WalkingTree

How dare they. It's alright though...I'm about bored with this show anyway.

----------


## finallyME

Being Alone seems to be the deciding factor this week.  Can't really blame them.  KYRS is going to be happy now that Mike and Randy are gone.  :Smile:

----------


## Grizz123

I don't get it? They applied for and got accepted to the show based on their skill sets, now they leave because of loneliness or not being challenged mentally and physically? Heck winter is on its way and that will provide a new set of challenges, right? Did they got bored so easily? Seems to me they could have lived a relatively comfortable life to the end and then cash a big check.

----------


## kyratshooter

> Being Alone seems to be the deciding factor this week.  Can't really blame them.  KYRS is going to be happy now that Mike and Randy are gone.


"Screw them, they were weak."  Dr Sheldon Cooper.

So far they have proven that any moron, psycho or bush hippie can make it for three weeks if they don't hurt themselves and they are not scared of the dark.

They are almost down to the serious contenders at this point.  Three more men who are tired of wet and hungry and the lone woman remaining.  

The girl could stick it out to the end but I think there will be some "incident" which triggers a flight response and she will hit the panic button before she thinks about what she is doing.

I think the sniper dude will climb his mountain and then tap out.

The cussing electrician is nearly under water and seeing no point in the process now.  Paradise has turned into a mud hole, the universe is out to get him, all the fish are in another ocean, and nothing good has ever happened in his life.

Dave is about to get hungry enough to trade $500k for a cheeseburger.

They still have 5 episodes remaining and 5 people to eliminate, they are really stringing the deal out.

Right now my money is on the Alaskan dude to win.  I expect him to have extra food stored and be sitting in a rocking chair, waiting for them to come tell him he won.

But I have been wrong before, once, long ago, and I can't remember what it was about.

----------


## finallyME

They had a little clip that wasn't part of the main show that was only about Jose.  Basically, it showed him sitting back at the very beginning just gorging on snails.  He won't tap because he is hungry.  I think he will win.

It looks like the girl gets to confront a male black bear at some point.  Could be the deciding factor.

----------


## edr730

I watched some of the program during the commercials of Uncle Buck. I don't know their names and I may get them mixed up. I saw the electrician finally moved. I can't believe he stayed so long in a place he didn't like. I think he just put too much effort into building his shelter and didn't want to move. He made the same mistake the second time  too. After all that effort he didn't move even when he had water on  his bag and his floor. All he had to do was throw the tarp over a sapling or a couple tied together and he would have a large umbrella dwelling and limbs to hang his clothes to dry. No wind would blow it down. 
These people should be hunting. In order to hunt you must scout and then hunt mobile. You have to have the ability to move when you see opportunity. You need to scout for oppurtunity and move. You can't put up anything permanent until you are in the best possible place.
Jose will be mobile with his canoe. He can find bays and inlets of fresh water where the fish will be. He needs traps. The person who found the freshwater stream shouldn't ignore it. It is a constant supply of minnows with the traps. Lots of other food too. A lake would be a god send. I'd be climbing trees to find them.

----------


## Zylumn

> "Screw them, they were weak."  Dr Sheldon Cooper.
> 
> So far they have proven that any moron, psycho or bush hippie can make it for three weeks if they don't hurt themselves and they are not scared of the dark.
> 
> They are almost down to the serious contenders at this point.  Three more men who are tired of wet and hungry and the lone woman remaining.  
> 
> The girl could stick it out to the end but I think there will be some "incident" which triggers a flight response and she will hit the panic button before she thinks about what she is doing.
> 
> I think the sniper dude will climb his mountain and then tap out.
> ...


You nailed it here.
Come on ALONE you had 3000-5000 applicants and you picked these 5 that have tapped so far. 3 more to go right away. 
I guess to be part of the show you have to let on that you could tap right away "emotional problems" "pussy whipped" etc..
If everyone taps after 50 max days the expenses of the show would sure go down; no rescue team, medical team, plane and boat rentals etc..

----------


## hunter63

Well, I have applied to the first show...."Survivor" and volunteered to be the "Token Geezer" and get voted off the island right away.

That way I can hang out at the hotel sipping umbrella drinks, with the hotties that get voted out for 38 more days.....

No luck.

----------


## kaze

It's really annoying that so many contestants are questioning themselves why they are out there.  Why do these people even sign up to compete in a survival reality show if they don't even know why they are doing it?  Then seeing them tap out so early cuz they feel lonely.  I mean they are not even alone for the entire duration.  A crew comes and replace the batteries and a medic checks on their health every week.  So they actually get human contact once a week.  Mike tapping out early definitely surprise me.  I thought he would go the distance.  Although it's clear he's is co-dependent on Barbara.  He's emotionally unstable without her.  Randy tapping out was expected.  He wasn't doing so well.  He barely caught anything.  He likes to think he can survive out there with his skillset but he can't.  That loneliness was partly an excuse for him to quit.  He has this fantasy idea of what a great life it would be to live off the land but in reality it's a hard life not many city folks can bear.  

I think Justin should tap out soon for his own sake.  I really like Justin but he's making a lot of bad decisions.  You can tell he's very weak. Now that he's shelter is ruined and instead of making a new one right away he is going to waste his last energy on climbing a mountain?   And Dave is in the same boat, except at least Dave doesn't waste his energy, Dave is wasting a lot of time though. 

Larry is the wild card.  I don't see him tapping out soon.  One good thing going for Larry is the loneliness does not bother him.   Nicole and Jose is doing well.  I hope those two are the finalist.  I like them both.

----------


## WalkingTree

Jose's boat building is kinda impressive.

Mike has actually crafted a few things. Not been sitting around. Doesn't just have a tarp hanging and that's it. That football game is funny. But is forgetting that he could bring some money home to Barbara, as his 'selfish self-serving purpose' for being out there.

That's all I had to say. But they had some things to say.

*Great quotes from episode 7:*

*David -*

"I got one sock on...means I'm headed out the door."

"I gotta put the other sock on."

"You might swagger into the bush, but you'll stagger out of the bush."

"The real burden of being out here is this other full time job I have of being a camera man. I'm out here surviving and trying to work and do all the things I need to do...and, I'm a camera man."

"[Homemade gill net] It's much more visible than the other one...but the other one hasn't caught anything yet...so it can't work worse than that. Right?"

"[Capable of winning $500,000] Just trying to figure out what I'm going to do with the rest of my life after this. It'd be great if I had a career to go back to. There's gotta be something out there for me."

*Justin -*

"I've decided to quit moping around, like a little baby, and get some stuff done."

*Larry -*

"I didn't have to get up at four in the morning, I didn't have to get up at four in the morning, I can get up whenever I want, I can get up whenever I want."

"I made a hole through the top of this stump, and I would think that it should draw through the top [fire/smoke]."

"I can't believe that I did that. I woke up this morning...the whole thing [stump] was basically engulfed [fire]. This whole trunk is burned out."

*Jose -*

"I'm starting to look like an old fart".

From the *Ask Alan Kay: Loneliest Moment* video clip -

"In the woods I usually don't feel too terribly alone...in society, everybody is so detached anyway, nobody's looking at each other, nobody's paying attention to each other...and out there I was living on such a base level, and I was so connected and dialed in, that I just really didn't feel that alone."

----------


## NightSG

> Jose's boat building is kinda impressive.


Kinda?  If he gets bored, he's going to end up whittling himself a claw foot bathtub and a flamenco guitar to play while he's soaking.

----------


## WalkingTree

Me and him would be in a two man band out there. Showing our projects off to each other.

That's how you survive on a show like this. Except that it didn't work for Mike I guess.

----------


## NightSG

> Me and him would be in a two man band out there. Showing our projects off to each other.
> 
> That's how you survive on a show like this. Except that it didn't work for Mike I guess.


I've wondered several times just how this show would go if they had pairs of people instead of singles.  (Picking your own partner, of course.)  It could be a really interesting spinoff idea if they're looking for a way to change things up later.

----------


## hunter63

> I've wondered several times just how this show would go if they had pairs of people instead of singles.  (Picking your own partner, of course.)  It could be a really interesting spinoff idea if they're looking for a way to change things up later.


Yeah...then it would be like Duel Survival.....Oh wait, they have one of them.....
So, Ok have the pair be naked.....of wait, they already have that, too.....

Never mind...........

Carry on.

----------


## NightSG

> Yeah...then it would be like Duel Survival.....Oh wait, they have one of them.....
> So, Ok have the pair be naked.....of wait, they already have that, too.....


DS has the "get your own *** out" aspect that I generally don't care for.  (Assuming the drop point is livable, of course.)  Same for DYS, MWW, One Car Too Far, etc.
N&A just went to a downright silly extreme with no clothing and one item.

Alone is a more realistic situation that could happen either from being marooned, hiding out from something (oppressive government, on the lam, or just getting away from a failing society until it stabilizes) or just from wanting to avoid people for a while.  Variations on the (usually inadvisable unless you're very familiar with the area) self rescue thing have been done to death, so the "sit tight and get comfy" scenario needs its own expansion.

----------


## WalkingTree

I'd like to see my last scenario in post #24 here

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...n-charge/page2

----------


## WalkingTree

For the concept of *team*, this ain't too bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQQ2gSsFYUs

----------


## Grizz123

> For the concept of *team*, this ain't too bad.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQQ2gSsFYUs


link is private

----------


## finallyME

I like the Alone part of the show.  It really showcases a common problem that most people have...including myself.  People generally like to be around other people.  There are always exceptions, but as a rule, people have a hard time being alone for a long time.  I know at least one person with a mental problem that if she is alone for a long period of time, she becomes suicidal.  The fact that there is a psychological condition with a name for this means that she isn't the only one.  
And then, the show starts out with alone with predators and ends with alone with your thoughts.  Hey, you have to weed out people somehow.

----------


## edr730

Lots of whining on the show. When I was a boy I was taught not to whine and I was ridiculed or laughed at if I did. I learned not to do it and it helped me. Being alone is not for whiners because nobody is there to listen. They want to go home and whine and have someone listen . I think that and the fact that few of them have ever been without complete protected security in their life is the reason so many drop out. Few of them have ever had  enough challenges in their lives that they had to surmount without support of others. 
Of course, I realize that many have no knowledge of how to obtain food in an area with much food. Lack of knowledge and hunger are always legitimate. reasons to drop out.

----------


## WalkingTree

Darn it. What happened. My link was for the t.v. show "spartan ultimate team challenge".

----------


## NightSG

> Wilderness survival just like bear grylls, right? Yea, right. The guy who creates sensationalism out of drinking your own pee to survive.


https://youtu.be/xUFQ2ECfPOw

----------


## kyratshooter

Very boring episode this week.

Even the Alaskans are whining!

----------


## WeekendWarrior

Not sure why David doesn't try and move and find a better spot for his nets.  He hasn't caught anything a 3 weeks.  Way past time to try a new spot.  Not sure how active he is in trying to find food.  I don't know what the rules are for moving are.  I know they can move, but how far can they go?

Nicole is literally throwing food away, I wonder if this will come back to haunt her.  I would think she should try and smoke or dry the extra meat to save for later.  Though it might be tough in such a high humidity environment.

Not sure about Jose, he has mad crafting/bushcraft skills, but not sure how "smart" he is.  Does he really need to build a boat to reach a stream.  Is he stuck on a small island?

I figured Justin would get hurt and tap after climbing his mountain.  He has the determination to get the job done, but seems to be lacking in a sense to put that determination to good use.  Just about the opposite of David.  

David has the skills, seems resigned to sit in one spot and mope.  Not going to last much longer at this rate.
Nicole has been lucky so far, but what will happen when the cold hits and the bounty ceases, will she be able to make the transition?
Jose can he put his mad skills to good use?
Justin can he funnel his energy and determination into better shelter and finding food, or is it too late.  
Larry can't live on mice alone.  I don't think he can last much longer.

----------


## kaze

I'm starting to worry about Justin.  That was pretty risky when he climb that mountain.  Glad it gave him a second wind to keep going.  Even though he has the heart and motivation to keep going, it seems like he just doesn't have the knowledge as far as I can tell.  I hope he doesn't hurt himself and force to quit.  He reminds me of Sam in season 1.

Nicole is doing great.  But she needs to start thinking long term.  She should start stock piling food for when bad weather come.  I agree with weekendwarrior that she should have smoke the salmon for future use.  That's what the Natives did.  I think for Nicole it will come down to missing her family that might get her to quit.  But by then maybe the others already quit.

Jose is a fantastic outdoors man.  He seems the most comfortable being out there with nature.  As impressive as his boat appears, I see a flaw with it.  The base of his boat seems to be too round and narrow.  That boat will roll over in rough waters.   He should add some stabilizers to that boat.  Hopefully, when that boat is finish he'll get some good use out of it.  I bet he wishes he were at where Nicole is at.  

Dave is really struggling.  It's kinda sad to see him slowly deteriorating and the only thing that is motivating him is winning that money for his kids.  I don't know how old his kids are but when they grow up, they don't care how much you make.  As long as you love them and try your best to take care of them.  That's all that matters.  If the kids are old enough, they can take care of themselves.  

Where is Larry?  So surprise he didn't get any screen time.  I kinda hope that mouse follow him to his new camp.  It's like watching Tom and Jerry. lol

----------


## Grizz123

I dont know what Justin is thinking?? If he wants to be an inspiration to vets with PTSD he needs to choose battles that will lead him to victory on the island, not climbing a hill because its there...

----------


## kyratshooter

He has an Army background Grizz, he is used to doing things for no D@&% good reason!

He also has no concept of calorie conservation.  That has been evident from the start when he made his jungle gym and promoted daily exercise sessions.

Some folks take a while to figure things out.  Successful gill net strategy= find a stream and stretch your net at the mouth of the stream.  Spawning salmon head up the streams.

Nichole is not only catching fish she is grazing.  She gathers several hundred calories every time she leaves her shelter in plant nutrition, which is also giving her a better balanced diet.  But I agree that she should have a smoker set up.  The salmon run will eventually end.  Just a wigwam of greenery with racks inside and a low smoky fire would preserve the fish.  Five pounds of calorie dense salmon would mean two weeks additional stay=$500k

While Nichole is thriving, Dave, Justin and Larry are walking past the same plants and starving.

Jose is going to be a hard man to beat.  I am thinking that in the end it may come down to Jose and Nichole.

They are going to have to get rid of some folks real soon, they are running out of episodes and I am getting bored with some of the foolishness being exhibited by the "pros".  After all, we are getting the edited edition and they could skip to the action any time they wish.

Would you put your life in the hands of Dave, Larry or Justin?  They would have you dropping for pushups, swearing at the trees or staring out into space while every day you poke another notch into your belt!

----------


## NightSG

> He also has no concept of calorie conservation.  That has been evident from the start when he made his jungle gym and promoted daily exercise sessions.


This.  I could see some targeted exercises focused on things he's likely to need at some point but doesn't get much of daily, but a full morning PT routine only works when you also have a chow hall nearby.

Now, climbing the mountain to scout for resources?  Sure.  Climbing it just to make a point?  Maybe after a few months, with a good food supply laid in.

----------


## WalkingTree

While I concur with commentary made thus far (want to slap Justin for hurting his knee for example), I do have to say that maybe Justin doesn't consider the purpose of the show or his win as important, but feels that what he's doing climbing that mountain is more important - using the show as an opportunity to put it out there. And maybe that's not a bad thing at all. Instead of it being dumb within the context of the show, maybe it should be seen as selfless and honorable...not caring about the money or how well he does, but this other thing instead. Of course, for him to do how he should be doing for the show, and to win the show, would be good to this end as well.

Nicole should pee on her gillnet posts. For those black bears.

Uh-oh. David said he missed his kids, and got choked up. Done passed into that danger zone.

And then it's over. I just started watching this thing. And then it's over. That was an hour? An hour of what?

----------


## kyratshooter

I told you it was a boring episode 7 posts back!

----------


## Grizz123

> While I concur with commentary made thus far (want to slap Justin for hurting his knee for example), I do have to say that maybe Justin doesn't consider the purpose of the show or his win as important, but feels that what he's doing climbing that mountain is more important - using the show as an opportunity to put it out there. And maybe that's not a bad thing at all. Instead of it being dumb within the context of the show, maybe it should be seen as selfless and honorable...not caring about the money or how well he does, but this other thing instead. Of course, for him to do how he should be doing for the show, and to win the show, would be good to this end as well.
> 
> Nicole should pee on her gillnet posts. For those black bears.
> 
> Uh-oh. David said he missed his kids, and got choked up. Done passed into that danger zone.
> 
> And then it's over. I just started watching this thing. And then it's over. That was an hour? An hour of what?


I was thinking if he won he could do a LOT of good with $500k to help the vets and wasting time/energy on climbing the mountain was a step in the wrong direction.

----------


## WalkingTree

Yea...........



> Of course, for him to do how he should be doing for the show, and to win the show, would be good to this end as well.

----------


## NightSG

> Nichole is not only catching fish she is grazing.  She gathers several hundred calories every time she leaves her shelter in plant nutrition, which is also giving her a better balanced diet.  But I agree that she should have a smoker set up.  The salmon run will eventually end.  Just a wigwam of greenery with racks inside and a low smoky fire would preserve the fish.  Five pounds of calorie dense salmon would mean two weeks additional stay=$500k


But then how do you store it with the bears around?  Not too close to camp, or you're inviting them in, and farther away you won't have a chance to defend it.  Rope up in a tree will work for a while, but they'll eventually mess with the rope or climb the tree.

----------


## kyratshooter

For thousands of years the natives of Alaska have smoked, dried and cured fish while keeping the finished product in various forms of caches.  

The answer to the bear problem is simple, the 3 S-rule;  Shoot them, smoke them and shut up about them, and do it all with the dang camera shut off!

Not a single person has figured out that there is an OFF button on that camera and bear were considered a necessary source of fat for surviving the winter in that area.

Keeps them out of your salmon cache too!

----------


## edr730

Justin climbed a mountain top and didn't bother looking around for any creeks or rivers. Or better, he should have climbed a tree on the mountain top and had a good look. I don't know the area, but here, the the salmon run would be near the end of September. 
They need shallow still areas to spear the salmon. They need salt or ocean water, wood and whatever type of smokehouse they can set up. They should see thirty salmon in one place from the shore. They can spear them, snare them, or shine them with a light at night and spear them, wier or trap them. They should have always been thinking about rivers and creeks from the first day. Salmon isn't the only large fish that can be speared while spawning on the river if you are in the right place and time. There are too many other animals and foods to mention on the rivers and streams.

----------


## NightSG

> Justin climbed a mountain top and didn't bother looking around for any creeks or rivers.


Wish they were still showing the specific spots on the map; I'm curious how far he was from Winter Harbor.  If their season 1 maps were accurate, Sam could have hiked in each morning for breakfast.

----------


## WalkingTree

I noticed that this season they aren't zooming in much on where they are when they show that overhead map view...and was thinking that they discovered that they can't let people know exactly where they are cause maybe you get some tourists or explorers dropping in and becoming a nuisance?

----------


## kyratshooter

Walking tree, the show was taped back in the fall, 6-8 months ago.

Any one rushing out to see them now would find them long gone.

----------


## WalkingTree

yea, but I just mean geeks going to look for souveners or something, don't want lots of people messing around, or maybe they'll go to the same general areas again?

----------


## Winter

None of the crabs they caught were dungeness crabs. I thought it odd they kept proclaiming them to be. To be honest, I don't know what they are. I've seen crab that look very much like them but never that size. Tanner crab are close, but the claws are different and tanner are much larger.

I'm confused.


Found it, but I've never seen one in the wild, which I find odd. 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## kaze

I'm very happy for Justin.  He left on good terms and I think he has become a wiser person.  I hope he has a great life ahead.  The rest seems to be doing well.  Everyone is making progress and catching food.  Competition is getting tougher and anyone of them can win this.  Looks like this season is going the distance.  Can't wait to see how the remainder contestants deal with winter weather.

----------


## Rick

That, my friend, is an alien. I am certain I've seen that on Predator, The Blob or some show.

----------


## Grizz123

> I'm very happy for Justin.  He left on good terms and I think he has become a wiser person.  I hope he has a great life ahead.  The rest seems to be doing well.  Everyone is making progress and catching food.  Competition is getting tougher and anyone of them can win this.  Looks like this season is going the distance.  Can't wait to see how the remainder contestants deal with winter weather.


I think he had the mind set of "good enough" while many of the others are striving to make things better.

----------


## Grizz123

> That, my friend, is an alien. I am certain I've seen that on Predator, The Blob or some show.


LOL, those were my first thought too. Maybe the shape of an alien ship, without the claws. Sort of has the body shape of a horseshoe crab too, but backwards

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## crashdive123

Justin's soliloquy in front of the camera about accomplishing all that he intended had/has me puzzled.  If that was your goal in coming on the show, why come on?  If that is true, then maybe he came onto the show under false pretenses?  To me there was nothing noble or leaving on good terms.  He couldn't hack it and he tapped.  As long as he is at peace with that, that is all that really matters.

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## kyratshooter

Justin could not cope with not having someone there to tell him how great he is, or a superior officer there to keep him on track and focused.

Ya see, if you whistle the National Anthem while you do something that makes it OK.  I was waiting for jets to fly overhead in formation there for a second

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## Winter

> Justin's soliloquy in front of the camera about accomplishing all that he intended had/has me puzzled.  If that was your goal in coming on the show, why come on?  If that is true, then maybe he came onto the show under false pretenses?  To me there was nothing noble or leaving on good terms.  He couldn't hack it and he tapped.  As long as he is at peace with that, that is all that really matters.


That's kinda what I was thinking. In the first week out there, you'd best search your soul and decide if you want to win or not. If not, leave that first week (or when you meet your weight loss goals LOL).

He was bored and working out? How the hell are you bored and starving at the same time? What a weird guy.

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## WalkingTree

Well...Justin dies of plain old boredom.

Let's spin it two times for Larry:

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## Mazer

> None of the crabs they caught were dungeness crabs. I thought it odd they kept proclaiming them to be. To be honest, I don't know what they are. I've seen crab that look very much like them but never that size. Tanner crab are close, but the claws are different and tanner are much larger.
> 
> 
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


You are spot on.....obviously not from the PNW

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## kaze

Well, it looks like Nicole's luck has finally ran out.  I hope she will adapt and try to catch fish with her fishing lines and hooks like Dave is doing.  

I'm glad Jose finally decides to fish from his bay instead of chasing those salmons.  With all those seagulls around I'm surprise he didn't try to make a bird trap and catch them too.

David is doing really well despite falling into the water.  He has figure out how to fish from his shore and I think he will go the distance.  What a turn around for him.

Larry is breaking down.  I'll be surprise if he makes it pass the next episode.

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## finallyME

Yeah, Nichole is going to learn why people pack food away for the winter.

Larry is taping next.

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## kyratshooter

Larry better tap out quickly or he is not going to remember the phone number for 911.  His last brain cell is on life support.

Him making it to day 50 just shows that any fool can make it for two months.

In the real world Nichole would have eaten the seals, just like the bears.  She would have moved her net closer to shore and used it as bait to harpoon them from a blind.

These people are all being constrained from real world survival by the rules.

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## WalkingTree

Just what I was thinking - eat the darned seal. 'Cept I figured they're not allowed to.

I'd already thought of laying some loose stones onto my fish, so they won't flop away or get taken so easily by an unpatriotic eagle like from David - would at least take a few more moments during which I'd catch that eagle red-clawed.

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## kyratshooter

Don't know if anyone noticed but when Dave fell in the water he lost his heavy monofilament line.

Since he has been totally dependent on line fishing his tap out clock might now be ticking.

I think if I was about to lose my only life support line I might just dive in and get it back if I was wet anyway!

Did he get into the sleeping bag with all his wet clothes on?

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## Grizz123

> Don't know if anyone noticed but when Dave fell in the water he lost his heavy monofilament line.
> 
> Since he has been totally dependent on line fishing his tap out clock might now be ticking.
> 
> I think if I was about to lose my only life support line I might just dive in and get it back if I was wet anyway!
> 
> Did he get into the sleeping bag with all his wet clothes on?


He most likely will be able to find the line at low tide unless it hooks a fish, then he is screwed.

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## kaze

> Don't know if anyone noticed but when Dave fell in the water he lost his heavy monofilament line.
> 
> Since he has been totally dependent on line fishing his tap out clock might now be ticking.
> 
> I think if I was about to lose my only life support line I might just dive in and get it back if I was wet anyway!
> 
> Did he get into the sleeping bag with all his wet clothes on?


I assume Dave has more fishing lines than that.  He lost the 100lb test lines (not sure if that was all of it), but he still has the 50lb test lines.  So he should be fine.

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## edr730

David found his niche for a while. It is as if he lost his home and retirement for now. It could be depressing, but his attitude has been pretty good so far in the face of not having much.  Perhaps, as Grizz said, low tide will help him. If he still needs to go into the water, he will need a fire very close to him. Warm for 15 minutes and go in for thirty seconds. It's easy. Without it the cold water can make a sissy out of you pretty quick as he experienced when he wanted to go in for the line. His knowledge is limited, his determanation is pretty decent and we will see what happens. 
Jose missed the mother load when he missed the salmon run. He is slow, steady and resourceful. Nicole has never been tested. Larry is....I guess Kayrat already said it. 
They have all ignored the great abundance of minnows and crayfish in the fresh water streams. I've never trapped minnows in what appears to be October there. When the fishing stops being very good nobody buys minnows, but there may still be pike and trout. But the ocean, from what I've seen on television keeps on producing. 
Without being able to kill the bears or the seals or having missed the salmon run it would be a tough winter.

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## kyratshooter

It appears that next week Jose is going to eat the mussels despite the warning about red tide.

I did a google of that particular situation and it appears that the red tide concentrates botulism virus in the filtering shellfish.

I am sure he will try to boil the mussels to kill the poison but botulism is the reason we use pressure cookers to can food.  You have to get the virus above the normal boiling point to kill it.

I suppose we will see how that works out.  We will know when his lips start going numb and paralysis sits in!  

Jose has the skills and ability to be the winner, but if he poisons himself it will be up to Nicole and Dave to do the deed.

That is unless Larry is the last man to leave because he goes completely bonkers, forgets to call for a tap out, and goes running naked through the woods and they finally have to chase him down with a net!

At that point we will learn why Vancouver Island has more bigfoot sightings than any other place in the world.  Bigfoot is really people that went insane on the Alone filming and the crew never found them for the trip back home.

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## kaze

Since we are down to the last 4 contestants, let's make our prediction on the winner.  Who's your pick to win this contest base on what we have seen so far?

I think Larry has mentally check out, so don't think he'll win. 
Nicole seems to be struggling now and getting weaker by the day.  Once the cold weather comes, I don't see her enduring so she'll tap.
Jose has a lot of knowledge but seems like he's not focus.  I think he wasted a lot of time on building that boat. The time he spent on building that boat he could have use it to build fish traps.  I think Kyra might be right, Jose could potentially poison himself by eating those muscles and tap out.
So my pick to win this is David.  He has figure out how to fish and catch crabs from his location and that will help him outlast the other contestants.

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## WalkingTree

If Jose eats red tide mussels and gets sick I give the heck up on trying to understand any of this. All bets are off if I see that crap happen. Anything's possible then.

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## kyratshooter

Well. for those without cable access Nichole is gone.

She used up all the available resources, the seals trashed her nets and she never developed line fishing skills, and the salmon run ended, all her veggies froze and she was missing her kids.

Still, she made it for 58 days, which was two days longer than Allan had to endure last season to win!

And she did it while coping with MS.

Quite a girl and one I would be proud to share a campfire with.

Jose ate the red tide mussels and apparently lived.

Larry is still there, doing a lot of crying now.  After 58 days he has about decided that being an electrician with a warm house, table full of food and a tolerant wife is not such a bad deal.  However, I think he may require some intense therapy before he returns to society.  He is going to have flashbacks and nightmares for a while.

Dave is plodding along.  I think he is eating better than the rest.  

All of them are spending a great deal of time trying to stay warm and all of the are talking a lot about tapping out.

That amuses me some.  Half have tapped out because they were accomplishing nothing, the other half because they had accomplished what they intended.  Searching for truth, inner peace, their purpose in life, their reason for existence.

Did anyone really go out there with the goal of staying longer than anyone, outlasting everyone in the heard and having a will to win?

Have even the survivors lowered themselves to the point where a participation trophy is enough?

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## kaze

Sad to see Nicole tap, but I'm surprise she didn't attempt to catch fish with lines or trap those ducks that keeps wandering by her camp.  But I knew missing her kids will eventually  do her in.  

Jose looks like he's about to reach his limit too.  Him realizing his wife is the most important prize reminds me of why Mike tap out earlier.  I guess a single person would have a clear advantage in situation like this.

I can't believe Larry's still in it.  I thought for sure he's tapping this episode but guess he's not willing to go back to his old life yet no matter how much he is sick of the area.  I'm glad he realize how fortunate he is of his wife.  I do hope he treats her better when he gets home.

David is the clear favorite to win this contest.  When he started this contest he was clear about his goal of winning the money.  He's the only one who talks about how much that money could do for him and his kids.  That's why I don't think he'll tap.  And now that he knows how to catch food, he will outlast the others.

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## WalkingTree

> Did anyone really go out there with the goal of staying longer than anyone, outlasting everyone in the heard and having a will to win?


Heh...yea...whadup widat?

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## hunter63

> Heh...yea...whadup widat?


What a concept, Huh?.....
Like we haven't heard this before.....same as "Survivor"....except a drab, wet whinny, bear ridden area of operations.
No hot chicks in bikinis.....
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## NitroHunter

I think David looks the strongest right now. Jose showed signs that he could tap at any time and Larry probably hung himself if they didn't come in the next couple days and tell him he won.

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## hunter63

I'm thinking the toughest part is Not knowing what is going on, or when it is over.....without a specific end date.
That also has to be one of the toughest parts of any "for real" survival situation.

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## Grizz123

> I think David looks the strongest right now. Jose showed signs that he could tap at any time and Larry probably hung himself if they didn't come in the next couple days and tell him he won.


keep in mind the editors "create" a few minutes of the drama from countless hours of recording in order to keep the audience watching. I think Larry will win because they have portrayed him as being so hotheaded. 

I would like to see David or Jose win but without seeing all the unedited footage its hard to say my feelings have not been biased...

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## WalkingTree

> I'm thinking the toughest part is Not knowing what is going on, or when it is over.....without a specific end date.
> That also has to be one of the toughest parts of any "for real" survival situation.


That's why you go out there to stay. To "win"...a bunch of money. Not whine about stuff. You go out there to outlast everyone else, therefore you set up for a long haul without ever fussing over how long it might be or wondering how the others are doing. You don't even think about it. You don't expect to do it for a certain finite length of time. You have to want to be there. To like being there. Sheesh...they get to a point and say "I've accomplished surviving" when all they're talking about is having some success with water and food and sleeping; They get to that point and say "I've done what I've come out here to do", and get so bored and lonely. No, you haven't done what you went out there to do. You went out there to outlast others. Der. Get off your arse and stop being so bored. You create your own boredom or interest. My goodness, if I were doing good enough to still be there and halfway healthy after a month or so, I'd move on to building my own freaking village or something. Sculptures. Totem poles. A real dwelling. A real cooking setup. Musical instruments. Exploring some and taking that chance to appreciate where I am and enjoy it. Heck before any of that a lot could be done just upgrading my various food-getting procedures. And it wouldn't be a chore, it'd be fun...some of these folks think of it as a dreaded chore, and that's a problem. Per the quote at the beginning of this last episode, you succeed when you find meaning or purpose in the work or suffering. Inactivity and boredom and the feeling of pointlessness just wouldn't ever come up. I just don't understand that jazz.

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## Rick

I would have a real problem being on that show. What if you sneeze? No one to bless you. High fives are impossible. Tug of war? Yeah, right. I mean, come on, they don't even have a volleyball.

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## kyratshooter

If they did one of these in the south it would be no problem.

If you sneezed the whole woods would simply echo "bless your little heart".  

I don't know why, seems it just happens down here as part of the whole southern deal.

Of course it might have a different connotation than what the mere words imply, but that is part of the culture too.

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## Rick

I once sat in a meeting in which a peer manager bragged about some accomplishment to another manager who happened to be a gal of the south. She looked the bragging manager straight in the eye and said, "That's so nice. That's so very, very nice," and went on with her day. It's hard to have a rebuttal when you are trying to figure out if you've just been complimented or rebuked. Yeah, I know,  :Offtopic:

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## WalkingTree

> If Jose eats red tide mussels and gets sick I give the heck up on trying to understand any of this. All bets are off if I see that crap happen. Anything's possible then.


Well, now that I seen the episode...they weren't exposed to red tide anyway, else good boiling takes care of it.

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## edr730

The red tide there is caused from algae bloom and can not be eliminated by boiling. It just wasn't strong enough to affect him even though the warnings were still in place. It can have an accumulated effect over time also. Botulism can be safe with boiling if you eat right away. When boiled and canned it can reappear due to the spores which were never killed by simple boiling. At least that's what I've read about it.

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## kyratshooter

The deal with Botulism is that you can kill the toxin by boiling, but not the organism itself, which continues to produce toxin.

Depending on the conditions and source, it can take up to 10 days for the spores to again generate enough toxin for symptoms to be evident.

He could actually win, go home, then die from botulism weeks latter.

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## NitroHunter

> keep in mind the editors "create" a few minutes of the drama from countless hours of recording in order to keep the audience watching. I think Larry will win because they have portrayed him as being so hotheaded. 
> 
> I would like to see David or Jose win but without seeing all the unedited footage its hard to say my feelings have not been biased...


Good point. I've watched a few of Larry's Youtube videos and if I had never watched Alone, I would not of imagined him being so hot headed. It is pretty much up to how the editors want to portray each person I guess. I do think Jose could stay there as long as he wanted to, David WANTS to win the money and is eating good so he could stay a while longer. Larry has the skills if he just don't let the mental aspect of it take him out.......

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## finallyME

Nichole quite because she ran out of food.  She had it fairly easy for the first part in the food area.  Yes, a lot of that was from her experience.  She knew the plants.  I don't think she really thought about winter and the lack of green stuff.  I also don't think she was thinking much of what to do after the salmon stopped running. I think David is the opposite.  He didn't really capitalize on the plants and had a really hard time finding food.  That forced him to find other food sources.  I think his food sources are more winter proof and so he should be finding food in the future a little easier.
Nichole has been amazing though.  She didn't run from the bears and really showed her knowledge and skill.  Any real woman has that strong maternal draw to nurture her kids.  She is definitely a real woman, and was able to push on as long as she did.  

I really don't think Larry is going to win.  I still think Jose can pull it off, but I don't know if he is going to.  David is definitely looking the strongest right now.

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## NightSG

So who's betting on a new location for next season now that all possible contestants have seen David's crabbing luck?  

Also seems like crabs would keep better; you could make a cage to keep them alive indefinitely, build up a week's food supply that way and focus on other things like scouting for more resources or improving the camp without having to be constantly concerned about food.  The morale boost of having a guaranteed week of a full belly would be huge, too.

IMO, you just need the ingredients for matzo ball soup; within 5 minutes of starting to make it, a half dozen Jewish mothers will show up to tell you how you're doing it wrong.

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## kyratshooter

They have already announced that the nest series will be filmed in Patagonia.

You know the place, down in South America on the edges of Chile and Argentina.  

That is about as far from Vancouver Island as you can get, and a guarantee that NONE of the American contests can call it their "home range".

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## hunter63

> ..........
> IMO, you just need the ingredients for matzo ball soup; within 5 minutes of starting to make it, a half dozen Jewish mothers will show up to tell you how you're doing it wrong.


Now that is a fact........LOL......Or 5 Italian mothers cooking for you 24/7........

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## Rick

You can kill C. botulinum by cooking it in a pressure cooker at 250F for 30 minutes. I doubt anyone took a pressure cooker with them on the show however.

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## edr730

It seems that despite the thousands of videos on the internet, in the end, the contestants fall back on personal experience. David remembered catching crabs in his youth. Nichole had foraged for those plants before. Jose had personal experience in watching or building a canoe. I have seen too many times when people are experts after you show them how to do something when before they were lost at what to do. Experience and then actually using what you have seen on the internet is vital. I have seen many times on this forum about how important snares and traps are. This is what should be done. One hundred traps and snares. I know rivers. I can't say I know rivers like those who have showed me, but I know that I would hunt the rivers relentlesly. The minnow, the crayfish, and all the animals are there to trap or snare. On the other hand, I would have never had any experience to catch the crabs as David has done. The ocean for me would have been guess work and how it related to fresh water. I think the greatest mistake of the contestants is failure to find the best creeks or rivers for the salmon run. It is a massive failure of lack of experience, despite all the videos,  of the habitat.

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## Batch

I googled Patigonia and they said the temps were like 77 to 29 degrees Fahrenheit. Seriously. I'm moving there. LOL

I can camp comfortable at 29 degrees in my South Florida bag and a cheap fleece liner.

Those temps are also a sweet spot for most foraging books.

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## finallyME

> IMO, you just need the ingredients for matzo ball soup; within 5 minutes of starting to make it, a half dozen Jewish mothers will show up to tell you how you're doing it wrong.


reminds me of the ol' joke.... A rich jewish couple are stranded on a deserted island.  The husband asks the wife, "Did you give the monthly donation to the synagogue?" "No dear".  "Great, it won't take them long to track us down."

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## WalkingTree

If you're in something for the long haul, like being on this show, knowing how to get food (and water)...animals and plants...and putting out the effort to get it, constantly, is vital. Fire and shelter and other crafty things are important...but you gotta get that food. Seems many of them don't try too much to do that. Instead their solution is to conserve. But you can't just conserve, doing nothing, indefinitely. All the other things that you need to do, including getting that food and water, takes energy which you get from food and water. Instead of being bored and sitting around and talking about how they start dwelling on things, they could be instituting a lot more activities geared for food.

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## NightSG

> They have already announced that the nest series will be filmed in Patagonia.


They seem to have a preference for places where it gets cold.  I was sort of hoping for something in the Tropics for a completely different climate challenge.  OTOH, I guess heatstroke can be sneakier than hypothermia, so it could be a liability issue.

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## kyratshooter

Walking Tree, their food gathering activities are determined and controlled by the tide rhythms.  They can gather at low tide and fish at high tide and when the weather is bad and the seas rough they can do neither.

That means that they are going to have serious down time due to those sea rhythms and the 100 inches of rain that fall annually in that area.  You simply can not do anything for long portions of the day.

None of the contestants in either series have had any success at trapping or hunting on land due to the nature of the land and apparent scarcity of small game.  No, occasional mice do not count! 

Rather than running around burning calories while frantically seeking what is not available they conserve their body fat as much as possible.  It is actually the smart thing to do in this situation.  

If they are sedentary or nearly inactive they may not burn but 1000-1500 calories daily.  The old 2200 daily calorie need is for a "moderately active" person.  The guy that walks a couple of miles each day and exercises at the gym for an hour.  That is why we can diet at 1500 calories and never lose weight in the real world.

A pound of fat contains 3500 calories so if you get 400-500 calories a day and only use 1000 to sustain life you will only lose a couple of pounds each week.

These guys know this and they loaded up and gained weight before the series, or should have.  Last year's winner, Allan, gained 20 pounds before going in.

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## WalkingTree

(kyratshooter) I mean stuff like - within the fishing limitations you mention, for example, instead of one gill net or one water-oriented foraging excursion, couldn't they create several fish trap areas instead of just one? Stock up on a bunch of crabs as someone suggested, or Nicole getting all the salmon she can while they're there and smoke them for future meals, trot lines, many land based traps, try to lure in a bird, etc.

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## crashdive123

Dave knows how to build a bird trap.  Maybe he hasn't because sea birds are off limits to them?  

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...6146#post46146

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## NitroHunter

You know when the show comes on it shows Jose turning over in his canoe/boat whatever you want to call it. If that has already been shown I've not saw it. I'm just wondering if that is yet to come or if it is something that happened when he first tried the boat and the editors just put it on the intro to get more interest in the show.

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## crashdive123

It hasn't been in the regular footage yet, so you may be right about yet to come or a tease.

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## kyratshooter

One of the things that all the contestants from last season spoke about in interviews was the amount of editing done by the producers which eliminated much of their "work" and almost all their foraging.  

All they showed was people sitting or lying around moaning and complaining in the rain when the participants were walking great distances beachcombing, hunting in the woods and going on extended hunting and fishing trips away from their camps.  They were also getting more food than was shown in the edited script.  They were hungry and losing weight, but they were getting some food.

Jose turned his boat over the first time he got into it, that is why he added the outriggers.  He was right at the shore and in no danger, so it was a learning experience and led to modifications.

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## NitroHunter

> Jose turned his boat over the first time he got into it, that is why he added the outriggers.  He was right at the shore and in no danger, so it was a learning experience and led to modifications.


I don't think he actually went in the water that time did he?  When it comes on he clearly goes in the water. 
Seems like they would have showed him drying out and trying to avoid hypothermia.  I could be wrong though.

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## WalkingTree

Apparently Jose's boat still works well enough...but I thought that his outrigger floats needed to be a few inches lower.

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## NightSG

IMO, Jose went way too complex considering the time crunch; the quickest boat is simply something that floats, with outriggers added.  He could have done that in a day.  OTOH, what he has now is pretty nice, and probably easier to paddle than what he could have whipped up quickly.  Personally, I'd have gone for flat bottom, though, both to minimize bending needed and to keep the draft as shallow as possible so as to get closer to shore without grounding.

As for food gathering, yes; the best policy would be to experiment with several hands-off methods and expand as much as possible on the ones that work.  Even primitive crab pots are a lot less effort than manually jigging for each crab.  Same for trotlines, snares, fish traps, gill nets and land-based fence traps.  Bonus is that once the equipment is made, it's very little additional effort to experiment again with seasonal changes when your initial success methods are pulling in less than before.  Then there's always hunting and active fishing to bring in some variety.  Identifying winter-hardy plants and farming them near camp is another long-term option as well.

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## kaze

> One of the things that all the contestants from last season spoke about in interviews was the amount of editing done by the producers which eliminated much of their "work" and almost all their foraging.  
> 
> All they showed was people sitting or lying around moaning and complaining in the rain when the participants were walking great distances beachcombing, hunting in the woods and going on extended hunting and fishing trips away from their camps.  They were also getting more food than was shown in the edited script.  They were hungry and losing weight, but they were getting some food.
> 
> Jose turned his boat over the first time he got into it, that is why he added the outriggers.  He was right at the shore and in no danger, so it was a learning experience and led to modifications.



That's a good point and one of my biggest complaint for the show's editing.  They need to show more activities and less whining.

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## kaze

> I don't think he actually went in the water that time did he?  When it comes on he clearly goes in the water. 
> Seems like they would have showed him drying out and trying to avoid hypothermia.  I could be wrong though.


Yea, I don't think that scene has occur yet.  I still think Jose will fall into the water and probably what will finally push him to tap out.  He'll realize it's too dangerous and don't want to risk making his wife a widow.

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## hunter63

Dave (Pict) is the winner!...........

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## kyratshooter

Yep Dave held out.

Jose rolled the kayak, soaked everything he owned in 40 degree water and decided he would not make it through the night.

Actually he hit the tap out button while he was still in the water and stood waist deep in the ocean until the boat arrived.  I think he was so cold and weak he could not pull the boat to shore.  

Larry finally went completely bonkers and remembered where he put the phone at the same time.  I do think he has had a life changing experience if he puts what he talks to work in real life.

They smuggled one of Dave's daughters in to tell him he had won.  When he saw her he lost it, I think he thought he was hallucinating for a moment.  He didn't realize why she was there until she told him he had won!  It was a cool reunion.

I expected him to look at the crew and comment that he still had fish! 

They did not go to Dave's camp until the next day after Larry tapped out.  I think they wanted to let him last until day 65 for the pickup.

These guys went 2 weeks longer than last years contestants.

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## hunter63

Congrats to Dave ......My knees could feel the hit when he fell.....Thought that was it......
Congratulations to all those that even tried it in the rain and cold....

That was hard to watch.

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## kyratshooter

OK here is the $64,000 question.

If you had been out there eating next to nothing for 65 days, spending most of your waking hours dreaming about food,

WHAT WOULD BE THE FIRST THING YOU WOULD WANT TO EAT?

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## hunter63

I gonna guess....NOT crab....?

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## kaze

Well done, David.  You never gave up and you adapted where others didn't.  As a fisherman, I am stun at seeing how many contestants don't know how to fish.  So happy for you and your family.  

I have also some new found respect for Larry, he gave it all he got.  I do hope he learns something from this experience and be a better person.  

I do feel bad for Jose, I was pulling for him to win it.  But unfortunately, he made things too complicated.  All his solutions seems to revolved around that boat and ironically his trust in that boat was ultimately want did him in.  But he did his best and if that accident didn't happen, who knows he might win.  He should be proud of his accomplishment.  I'm sure his wife appreciate his effort.  

Well, I can't wait for season 3.  Hopefully in the new location there will be no oceans or lakes so contestants will have to rely on hunting and trapping land animals for food.

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## Batch

I love that Mac was saying why leave now when his daughter walked up. He still had some more in the tank. There was still a little chicken on left that bone! LOL

That is how you go home! Congrats Dave!

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## WeekendWarrior

I couldn't believe that Jose stood in the water until the rescue boat arrived.  What if it took them several hours to arrive.  Did he know they were right there?

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## kyratshooter

> I couldn't believe that Jose stood in the water until the rescue boat arrived.  What if it took them several hours to arrive.  Did he know they were right there?


All of the camps were inside a 10 mile stretch of beach area and the support crew was in a base camp somewhere in that area, meaning the boat was probably no more than 5-10 minutes from anyone at any time. 

I really believe the effort to stay alive in the yak attack used up the last of his reserves.  He had been wanting to go home ever since he missed the salmon run.

As has been stated, he took too much time building that extravagant boat when a bundle of spruce boughs wrapped in the tarp would have served the purpose of getting 20 meters off shore for better fishing.

I knew he was about done when he pulled in his gill net and took all night to decide if he was going to reset it when the gill net had been his primary food source.

Now regarding Dave, there is a secondary celebration going on for all the present and former divorcees in our midst.

*Somewhere out there is an X-wife that just missed out on helping spend a half million bucks!*

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## chiggersngrits

Congrats Pict (Dave). I think he could have gone 100 days. He really got his second wind when he went to the fishing pole and stopped depending on the gill net. I don't think this season was a battle of woods skills, but more a battle of will. I must admit I welled up a little when he turned and saw his daughter. Again way to go Dave.

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## hunter63

> ............
> 
> Now regarding Dave, there is a secondary celebration going on for all the present and former divorcees in our midst.
> 
> *Somewhere out there is an X-wife that just missed out on helping spend a half million bucks!*


Many people will not catch the reference.........but was happy for Dave (Mac, Pict)....
May him and the kids have a long and happy life......

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## Batch

How much do you think there will be for Dave after the taxman comes? Half?

And Kyrat, I would have me a grilled at home steak, roast corn on the cob, and a mixed baby green salad with everything in it. Apple, red onion, cucumber, radish, jalapeno, habanero, sharp cheddar, boiled egg, pine nuts, pumpkin seeds, walnuts, wild (store bought) tomatoes, and crumpled bacon! Ice cold beer and a little Bulleit Rye.

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## Faiaoga

> Dave (Pict) is the winner!...........


Neat and cool.   Having seen a few of his Brazil bushcraft videos, I was impressed by his skill using local materials. Most importantly, he seemed to have mental or spiritual resources to cope with the isolation and psychological challenges.   :Wink:

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## WalkingTree

Heck I dunno. After 65 days, there's so much to choose from. I figure that any food would be luscious. Hunger is the best spice of all.

I think that I might be tempted to pick something to savor, instead of indulge in gobbling a pizza or hamburger. Like maybe a simple 1 & 1/2 inch thick ground beef steak grilled over charcoal with plenty of mesquite wood smoking with it, and black pepper mixed in and on top. Slowly cutting and savoring each bite. And some Kale chopped and steamed with bits of bacon. And maybe something done with a couple of potatoes on the grill too.

Mmm...

Oh, and some dry red wine baby.

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## WalkingTree

I suppose that what History Channel's Alone is about is survival, as social creatures, away from civilization...not away from it's technology, but away from the rest of Humanity.

I like what Nicole said about having become part of the environment - birds not alarm calling and bears accepting her presence, etc.

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## crashdive123

Based on Dave's first few appearances on camera (early in the show) I'll bet that fried chicken will soon be on the menu.

Well done Dave.  We're all proud of you.

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## WalkingTree

(Was just now able to watch everything) Wow that was really cool how they brought in David's daughter. And I could imagine how he must've felt when she told him "you did it".

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## pete lynch

WTG, pict!

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## kyratshooter

> Based on Dave's first few appearances on camera (early in the show) I'll bet that fried chicken will soon be on the menu.
> 
> Well done Dave.  We're all proud of you.


We ought to have a bucket of chicken delivered to him care of WSF!

It must be noted that our prize contestant forum member actually won Alone, while the moderator of another well known bushcrafting forum tapped out rather quickly during the first season.

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## WalkingTree

> while the moderator of another well known bushcrafting forum tapped out rather quickly during the first season.


Oooh, that's gotta hurt.

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## Rick

This is crazy but I just found out Dave is my cousin! Half million bucks? Gotta give my cousin a call.

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## 1stimestar

Steak and an Alaskan Amber!

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## theJman

> I do feel bad for Jose, I was pulling for him to win it.  But unfortunately, he made things too complicated.  All his solutions seems to revolved around that boat and ironically his trust in that boat was ultimately want did him in.  But he did his best and if that accident didn't happen, who knows he might win.  He should be proud of his accomplishment.  I'm sure his wife appreciate his effort.


Early on I picked either Jose or Mike to be the winner, with Nicole as my dark horse (I figured the kids thing might do her in, so she was my long shot).  After Mike tapped I was sure Jose's attitude and skill set would carry him through, but apparently not.  I gotta give him credit though for how he decided to end it.  The dude knew he was in a world of hurt when he got soak, so without hesitation he pushed the button.  Complete opposite of Larry.





> I suppose that what History Channel's Alone is about is survival, as social creatures, away from civilization...not away from it's technology, but away from the rest of Humanity.
> 
> I like what Nicole said about having become part of the environment - birds not alarm calling and bears accepting her presence, etc.


Of all the experiences the contestants had, I think blending in with the environment would have been my favorite as well.  That has to be a very powerful feeling, to know the fauna now considers you one of them.

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## Grizz123

way to go Dave!!! Great job!!

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## NightSG

> We ought to have a bucket of chicken delivered to him care of WSF!


Red Lobster gift certificate...only valid on Crabby Mondays.

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## NightSG

> If you had been out there eating next to nothing for 65 days, spending most of your waking hours dreaming about food,
> 
> WHAT WOULD BE THE FIRST THING YOU WOULD WANT TO EAT?


65 days without even seeing a woman...can I say that on here?

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## theJman

> 65 days without even seeing a woman...can I say that on here?


Not sure if it's PC to say, but you ain't the first among us to think it.   :Yes:

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## hunter63

> 65 days without even seeing a woman...can I say that on here?


Yeah, I get it 65 days with no women, bet thy all seem sensuous.
Yeah, That's the ticket.......Use "Sensuous" in a sentence......... "Sensuous up, grab me a beer, Sweetie"

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## Grizz123

> 65 days without even seeing a woman...can I say that on here?


IIRC, one of the medical team was female and they get checked every week, weather permitting of course

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## finallyME

> This is crazy but I just found out Dave is my cousin! Half million bucks? Gotta give my cousin a call.


He probably only has $250,000 after taxes.

David is a smart guy.  I hope he is smart with the money.  Generally speaking, when people who are not used to money suddenly get a lot, they generally have a hard time keeping it.  They don't know what to do with it.

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## WalkingTree

> Of all the experiences the contestants had, I think blending in with the environment would have been my favorite as well. That has to be a very powerful feeling, to know the fauna now considers you one of them.


It might just be the editing...but does anyone else notice that after the first and maybe second episode, we don't see anyone really have any problems with bears?

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## hunter63

Bears probably thought....These things are a PITA, tromping around, hollering "Hey Bear"...... and after a week or two, kinda stinky (didn't see much bathing going on).

I find when hunting.....that it takes about 15 to 20 minutes for the woods to turn back to "normal" birds and animals doing their thing.... especially if you are in complete camo w/head net,....and sit still.....I call it "My Zone".

If something else is going on it may stay quite.....you need to be aware what is and isn't normal.

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## crashdive123

> It might just be the editing...but does anyone else notice that after the first and maybe second episode, we don't see anyone really have any problems with bears?


It's not that the bears weren't still there.  It's just that those that were freaked out by them were gone after a couple of episodes.

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## theJman

> It might just be the editing...but does anyone else notice that after the first and maybe second episode, we don't see anyone really have any problems with bears?


I live in the NW corner of New Jersey which has a pretty heavy black bear population.  Even though visual encounters are somewhat frequent, problems have not been.  For the most part they're just too lazy and want nothing to do with you.  Being omnivores means you aren't their main diet, which is always comforting (on Vancouver Island my predator fear would have been cougars first, then wolves and lastly the bears).  I've been followed a few times out on my treks, but except for one instance it was all for short durations and by a bruin that seemed mostly disinterested in anything other than just checking out the new creature in the neighborhood.  I do make a lot of noise as I walk though, because it's better to be safe than sorry, but overall I haven't really had any issues.

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## Grizz123

> I live in the NW corner of New Jersey which has a pretty heavy black bear population.  Even though visual encounters are somewhat frequent, problems have not been.  For the most part they're just too lazy and want nothing to do with you.  Being omnivores means you aren't their main diet, which is always comforting (on Vancouver Island my predator fear would have been cougars first, then wolves and lastly the bears).  I've been followed a few times out on my treks, but except for one instance it was all for short durations and by a bruin that seemed mostly disinterested in anything other than just checking out the new creature in the neighborhood.  I do make a lot of noise as I walk though, because it's better to be safe than sorry, but overall I haven't really had any issues.


You mentioned wolves, I remember in the previews they showed a wolf charging a camera but that never made it to any of the episodes, what happened??

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## NightSG

> He probably only has $250,000 after taxes.


Still not bad for a little over two months' work.

Now he can push for his own reality show, start a survival school, etc. to supplement it.  Look how many "expert survivalists" he outlasted.

What would be really cool is to get 5+ seasons done, and have an "all-star show" with the winners from each season in a special setting.

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## theJman

> You mentioned wolves, I remember in the previews they showed a wolf charging a camera but that never made it to any of the episodes, what happened??


I wondered the same thing.  I also thought "where are his friends?".  Wolves are pack animals, and where there's one you will frequently find others.  I recall seeing a cougar or two in season 1, but no wolves in either season.  Guess they're pretty scarce on that island.  If it were me I would actually welcome the sight of bears; I already have some experience around them, and where they are cougars and wolves are not likely to be.  That would suit me just fine.

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## NightSG

> I remember in the previews they showed a wolf charging a camera


How did he manage the tiny USB plug without opposable thumbs?

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## kyratshooter

> How did he manage the tiny USB plug without opposable thumbs?



 :Thumbup1:

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## theJman

> How did he manage the tiny USB plug without opposable thumbs?


Perhaps he coerced a raccoon into doing that part for him...

raccoon3.jpg

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## hunter63

Recap and reunion show on tonite......

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## Grizz123

> How did he manage the tiny USB plug without opposable thumbs?


it fit nicely between his toes, no thumbs needed

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## hunter63

Not a plug but an FYI as there are some of our members that are "over there, as well"....

 Pict, (Mac/Dave) has a current:"Ask me anything" .....thread going on 'That other site..... that will not be named"

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## Grizz123

> Not a plug but an FYI as there are some of our members that are "over there, as well"....
> 
>  Pict, (Mac/Dave) has a current:"Ask me anything" .....thread going on 'That other site..... that will not be named"


is "over there" a bad thing?

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## hunter63

> is "over there" a bad thing?


Nope, didn't say that.........It is what it is.......

Been a member there for quite a while, as well as a few other forums.....
But don't advertise for any of them.

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## Grizz123

> Nope, didn't say that.........It is what it is.......
> 
> Been a member there for quite a while, as well as a few other forums.....
> But don't advertise for any of them.


I like their site too.

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## theJman

OK, I'm game; what is 'that other site' being alluded? I'd actually love to read Dave's thread and get his insight.  If you're uncomfortable posting it in the open forum them just PM me.

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## hunter63

PM sent.......(Pict) Dave is/was a member here also, but hasn't posted for a while.....

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## theJman

> PM sent.......(Pict) Dave is/was a member here also, but hasn't posted for a while.....


 :Punk: 

Much appreciated.

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## kyratshooter

Yep, he's got a good Q&A thread going on over there.  Has answered most of the questions asked here.

One extra question too.  Someone asked him what his 11th item would have been, knowing what he does now.  

His answer was a multi-tool of some kind with scissors for personal grooming.

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## hunter63

> Yep, he's got a good Q&A thread going on over there.  Has answered most of the questions asked here.
> 
> One extra question too.  Someone asked him what his 11th item would have been, knowing what he does now.  
> 
> His answer was a multi-tool of some kind with scissors for personal grooming.


LOL...saw that....I suppose carrying a SAK  counts as "an item" even though I carry one every day.....

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## kyratshooter

And as a warning, if you are upset by being preached at you need to stay away from that thread "over there".  Dave is a pastor and speaks his mind about what he "thought about" while on dead time in the woods.  

His experience on Vancouver Island was an addition to his spiritual journey through life.

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## Grizz123

> And as a warning, if you are upset by being preached at you need to stay away from that thread "over there".  Dave is a pastor and speaks his mind about what he "thought about" while on dead time in the woods.  
> 
> His experience on Vancouver Island was an addition to his spiritual journey through life.


Preached at? How did you come to that conclusion? People asked and he responded, thats NOT preaching

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## theJman

I didn't sense anything in the thread that would be described as preached "at", but there has seemingly been an awful lot of religious comments interjected into a thread about a reality TV show. Two things people should always approached with extreme caution; politics and religion.  Far too many variations and differences attached to deep-seated opinions, and that almost invariably leads to some type of conflict.  I personally don't care one way or another what anyone believes in either area - to each his own - but I'm not a really big fan of being taken along for the ride.

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## kyratshooter

> Preached at? How did you come to that conclusion? People asked and he responded, thats NOT preaching


That was the way I saw it myself Grizz.

For some folks any mention of spiritual or religious belief is considered overwhelming and insulting.  As soon as you mention it you get a caution.  My comment was simply a warning to those that might object.   

That is "over there", this is "over here" and we have two separate and different systems to operate within.

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## NJHeart2Heart

> IIRC, one of the medical team was female and they get checked every week, weather permitting of course


Oh.. that's interesting.  I didn't know they got medical checks every week.  I always wonder how they could be surprised by winning if the only "medical check" seen from last season was when Allen was proclaimed winner.  It's also interesting in that they are not as isolated as the show indicates.  Not that once a week is a normal amount of interaction, it's still more than being completely alone for 60 days... But I wouldn't hold that against them for sure.  I do wonder how much the participants try to talk with the med team out of desperation though  :Smile:

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## kyratshooter

> Oh.. that's interesting.  I didn't know they got medical checks every week.  I always wonder how they could be surprised by winning if the only "medical check" seen from last season was when Allen was proclaimed winner.  It's also interesting in that they are not as isolated as the show indicates.  Not that once a week is a normal amount of interaction, it's still more than being completely alone for 60 days... But I wouldn't hold that against them for sure.  I do wonder how much the participants try to talk with the med team out of desperation though


The med team does not "sit and chat" with the contestants.  It is a quick check for overall physical and mental health and is over by the time the camera crew picks up old filming and batteries and deposits new.  Then they were gone.  Very stoic and professional from what I could gather.  No information passed about the outside world or other contestants.

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## crashdive123

And David has said that it was tough having them there but not allowed to interact with them at all and them just going about their business very quickly and leaving.

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## DSJohnson

Okay....so someone send me a PM with the password and handshake please I have no idea where you guys are talking about and i would like to read Dave's thoughts.   Thank you.  I promise to try to not fall into the rabbit hole. I will only look down into it....really...no ...really...scouts Honor.....

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## hunter63

PM sent........enjoy.

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## DSJohnson

Thank you Hunter.  I just got back from a 13 day Road trip Hunter.  Rocky Mountain National Park, Teton National Park, Yellowstone NP (4 nights in the park) Mt. Rushmore.  Saw Moose, a grizzly bear, a big black bear, couple of thousand buffaloes (Yeah I know..Bison...yeah right) Elk, Antelope, Blacktail deer, Eagles, Pelicans, Swans, Snow Geese and just a few people.......okay maybe like a kazillion people...  4800 miles on the Yukon. 5 adults and one 11 year old female.  "And a good time was had by all"

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## hunter63

Glad you had a good time...sound like a heck of a trip.........
Been just plain"" Hot ""here....
Did have Bufflar steaks last evening.......(local rancher....LOL)

Packing up for a Rondy 4, 5, 6, 7 Aug......
Trying to figure out a A? for the lodge....LOL

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## NJHeart2Heart

> The med team does not "sit and chat" with the contestants.  It is a quick check for overall physical and mental health and is over by the time the camera crew picks up old filming and batteries and deposits new.  Then they were gone.  Very stoic and professional from what I could gather.  No information passed about the outside world or other contestants.


As it should be  :Smile:

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## NJHeart2Heart

> Thank you Hunter.  I just got back from a 13 day Road trip Hunter.  Rocky Mountain National Park, Teton National Park, Yellowstone NP (4 nights in the park) Mt. Rushmore.  Saw Moose, a grizzly bear, a big black bear, couple of thousand buffaloes (Yeah I know..Bison...yeah right) Elk, Antelope, Blacktail deer, Eagles, Pelicans, Swans, Snow Geese and just a few people.......okay maybe like a kazillion people...  4800 miles on the Yukon. 5 adults and one 11 year old female.  "And a good time was had by all"


Sounds like a terrific trip!!!

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## NJHeart2Heart

> PM sent........enjoy.


OK.. now I'm intriqued.. Please kindly send me a PM for "the other side"  :Smile:   (Is it the DARK side??)  :Big Grin:   Based on my own personal philosophy I suspect I'd enjoy reading his thoughts.  Not to mention another site/board to waste time reading on!! LOL

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## hunter63

> OK.. now I'm intriqued.. Please kindly send me a PM for "the other side"   (Is it the DARK side??)   Based on my own personal philosophy I suspect I'd enjoy reading his thoughts.  Not to mention another site/board to waste time reading on!! LOL


PM sent....LOL.....enjoy.

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## Grizz123

> OK.. now I'm intriqued.. Please kindly send me a PM for "the other side"   (Is it the DARK side??)   Based on my own personal philosophy I suspect I'd enjoy reading his thoughts.  Not to mention another site/board to waste time reading on!! LOL


its a really good site but this site is more like family

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## crashdive123

> its a really good site but this site is more like family


It is until you disagree with one of the "regulars".  Many have been banned for expressing an opinion contrary to the herd mentality.

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## Grizz123

> It is until you disagree with one of the "regulars".  Many have been banned for expressing an opinion contrary to the herd mentality.


hey, I resemble that remark  :Shifty:  :Gunsmilie:  :Whistling:  :Big Grin:

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## hunter63

Well, haven't been banned yet, but get regular warnings.......as there are time I can't contain my self.....
This is home, and is more of a family, ...."there" is a business, that doesn't tolerate a disturbance in the force.

So like I said...I don't advertise them and only pasted along the info as a favor to our "family"....in  a PM.

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## lfos847

Since finding this site I don't visit many other forums. I find most of what I need right here. I would like to read David's comments so please include me in the PM. Thanks

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## hunter63

> Since finding this site I don't visit many other forums. I find most of what I need right here. I would like to read David's comments so please include me in the PM. Thanks


PM sent..........

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## Rick

Other forums?! Don't make me Tae Kwon Do you! 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## crashdive123

Practicing for that Lord of the Universe thing I see.

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## hunter63

Awww Rick, Rick, Rick.....
Some folks may need the help, picking out the Best shoe laces, The Best bunch of sticks.....and The magic of Fatwood.....That come for the deepest darkest special secret places.......The cheap crap (Not my description) from Menards for a $1 buck a pound isn't good enough.

And don't forget to "LIKE" every and anything in sight......Major ashkissin' is expected and graded......
Y'all have fun....

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## crashdive123

And above all --- don't criticize their favored knife maker (I didn't) who raffles off (you have to pay for a raffle ticket) spots to get on his wait list.

----------


## RangerXanatos

> And above all --- don't criticize their favored knife maker (I didn't) who raffles off (you have to pay for a raffle ticket) spots to get on his wait list.


And the two biggest makers don't even get their knives used but put in a safe.

I stopped going there as much because of all of the "stuff" they started doing and treating their members. Haven't posted since December 2014.

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## jayd

> I am waiting to see how long it takes for someone to pick an extra tarp and use it completely for water gathering.
> 
> Rains 2 days out of three, so wet you can't start a fire with a road flare, but everyone is dehydrating for lack of drinking water when all they have to do is dig a hole and spread a tarp.
> 
> I would also like to see someone build a real shelter.  No one has done that yet.  They throw together an "overnight survival hut" and fight the wildlife until they whine out and go home.  
> 
> If you are staying in bear/wolf country for the long haul why not take a couple of days to build a real trapper's cabin and use the tarp for a roof instead of the whole shelter.    What else do you have to do for the next two months?
> 
> I wonder how many of them packed on an extra 20 pounds for this effort?  That was what the last winner attributed his success too.  An extra 20 pounds will give you 2 weeks mobile food reserve.
> ...


You're kidding, right? a couple of days to build a cabin, with nothing but axe and saw, by yourself? 2 weeks, maybe, a very small one. They are not allowed to cut green trees on Vancouver. Finding a stand of dead trees, close to the shore that is your only shot at feeding yourself? not gonna happen. What are you eating while you waste 4000 calories per day on this cabin?  Having a cabin will not prevent those wusses from wussing-out. That cabin will take 15 lbs of your body weight and it wont feed you. The ones who just use a small, portable tent shelter are the smart ones. The ones who waste a month on building something elaborate are the screwups.

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## jayd

I guess I'm just anti-social, cause being alone doesn't bother me a bit, and yes I do mean for months at a time. I don't think it bothers the competitors as much as they say it does, either. They are just trying to cover up the fact that they can't feed themselves properly and the lack of calories, especially carbs, is depressing, leads to bad decisions, etc.

----------

