# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Cooking, Food Storage, & Preserving >  Smoking vs sun curing. which one is better?

## TheWelshBoy

I have smoked meat of game before (yum!) But never sun cured before. 
For a survival situation which one would be better, quicker, easier or safer!

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## crashdive123

In the realistic survival scenarios that we all potentially face in the wilderness I don't think either one is a good option.  Most wilderness survival scenarios, following the initial contact with the bad thing that happened (injury, weather, illness, etc.) will either be followed by rescue/self rescue or death.  Most rescues will happen within 72 hours of the incident or of your failure to return.  In either case, preserving food is not an issue.  You may need to consume some calories if you are exerting yourself, but realistically, for that length of time - food is not really an issue.  Some comfort/peace of mind may be gained by consuming food but in the majority of scenarios it is not an issue.  Eat it when you get it.

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## welderguy

What it sounds like to me is your getting off grid self sustaining living and survival confused. I smoke and dry meat all the time and am in no way in a survival situation.

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## TheWelshBoy

> In the realistic survival scenarios that we all potentially face in the wilderness I don't think either one is a good option.  Most wilderness survival scenarios, following the initial contact with the bad thing that happened (injury, weather, illness, etc.) will either be followed by rescue/self rescue or death.  Most rescues will happen within 72 hours of the incident or of your failure to return.  In either case, preserving food is not an issue.  You may need to consume some calories if you are exerting yourself, but realistically, for that length of time - food is not really an issue.  Some comfort/peace of mind may be gained by consuming food but in the majority of scenarios it is not an issue.  Eat it when you get it.


Survival doesnt always mean you want rescue, if/when SHTF and you need to bug out and managed to snag your self a boar or larger animal it would be stupid not to use all the meat. Weather would obviously be a massive factor. But you would need to some how preserve the left over meat? Yes?

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## welderguy

> Survival doesnt always mean you want rescue, if/when SHTF and you need to bug out and managed to snag your self a boar or larger animal it would be stupid not to use all the meat. Weather would obviously be a massive factor. But you would need to some how preserve the left over meat? Yes?


 It seems like you think Survival is pack up and go , Most people here plan on a long term setting, Preparing long in advance!!! moving to a cabin in the middle of nowhere and living off the land isn't survival its a life style choice, being lost in the Rockies with little to no supplies is a survival situation, having a boat break down in open sea is a potential survival situation. Running off to the wilderness unprepared looking for a survival situation IS STUPID. moving to a piece of land and living self sufficient if that's your goal isn't survival its most peoples dream that are on this board

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## hayshaker

wasting the meat at times cannot be helped btw welshboy howmany hogs have you ever butcherd by yourself.
i've done a few alone and not as you put it in a survival situation it is a lot of work.pork in perticular will go fast
turn bad another words in heat.in the woods by your self you bag a boar say 250lbs yoou'll be lucky to consume mabey 10,lbs of meat if done in summers heat that's it. i did my butchering in late fall had a meat kitchen chest freezer&commercial
meat saw and still it was a lot to get done. i say stick with squirrels and rabbits less waste that way.

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## Rick

If SHTF I'll be in a hotel or a family member's home. I'll simply order the meat off the menu.

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## welderguy

> If SHTF I'll be in a hotel or a family member's home. I'll simply order the meat off the menu.


so what your saying is your not going to grab your survival HONG, and head to the wilderness? SISSY!!!!!

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## hunter63

I have used sun drying for veggies....never meat.....meat has always been with a smoker or smoke house.

Has been done for 1000's of years...
Check this out.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...at-in-the-wild

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## Rick

Oh, I'll have my survival hong. Just won't be in the wilderness. I wore it last night as a matter of fact. Got me banned from Kroger though.

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## TheWelshBoy

> wasting the meat at times cannot be helped btw welshboy howmany hogs have you ever butcherd by yourself.
> i've done a few alone and not as you put it in a survival situation it is a lot of work.pork in perticular will go fast
> turn bad another words in heat.in the woods by your self you bag a boar say 250lbs yoou'll be lucky to consume mabey 10,lbs of meat if done in summers heat that's it. i did my butchering in late fall had a meat kitchen chest freezer&commercial
> meat saw and still it was a lot to get done. i say stick with squirrels and rabbits less waste that way.


My family own a farm. I have butchered alot of sheep (well im Welsh, what do you expect) apart from actually killing and gutting, the abattoir did that due to laws. i know the basics when it comes to other game its not all that diffrent. I know there is wastage (unless your my nan who is still thinks WW2 is happen, she uses everything from brain to feet) and obviously in the wilderness there would be more.

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## TheWelshBoy

> I have used sun drying for veggies....never meat.....meat has always been with a smoker or smoke house.
> 
> Has been done for 1000's of years...
> Check this out.
> http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...at-in-the-wild


thanks hunter63! very helpful!

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## welderguy

> My family own a farm. I have butchered alot of sheep (well im Welsh, what do you expect) apart from actually killing and gutting, the abattoir did that due to laws. i know the basics when it comes to other game its not all that diffrent. I know there is wastage (unless your my nan who is still thinks WW2 is happen, she uses everything from brain to feet) and obviously in the wilderness there would be more.


 I'm curious How does your family preserve the meat butchered on the farm? Is it all frozen after processing ? They didn't do any canning, smoke or dry any ? And why bug out if your family owns a farm?

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## madmax

What's a Hong?  Is it something you wear when yer young and skinny?

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## TheWelshBoy

> I'm curious How does your family preserve the meat butchered on the farm? Is it all frozen after processing ? They didn't do any canning, smoke or dry any ? And why bug out if your family owns a farm?


Well they mainly just sell most of the livestock, but of course we keep some for them selves, we usually freeze it and consume over the winter. 

As for buging out on my farm, what do you think i did with my child hood? I could still live in wales if i wanted to but whats the point when there is a whole world out there!

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## crashdive123

> Survival doesnt always mean you want rescue, if/when SHTF and you need to bug out ........


Then you are not talking about survival, but rather moving and a life style change.  Survival is not a game.  It is a matter of life and death.  If you want to live in the woods and do it primitively, then by all means have at it.  If you attempt it without the proper experience or equipment you will be in a survival situation.

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## jdbushcraft

http://www.texasescapes.com/CFEckhar...e-Frontier.htm

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## kyratshooter

We are going around in circles here, and that is the point of the thread, unacceptable answers to an impossible question.

This is the norm for British survival forums.  I am active on several of them and face this kind of attitude on almost every thread whether it deals with small holdings/crofting (what we call homesteading), food storage or weapons selection.  A constant whining series of "I want/but what if/that's not good enough/you can't really expect me too../I already knew that",,, and the final finish off insult of "I expected better from a survival forum filled with experts!"

Their norm is what we refer too as "trolling".  

What they call trolling is someone making a decisive statement and backing it up with references, which they dismiss because it ends the argument.  Because of this they hate for Americans to join their forums and treat them with contempt, insults and abuse.  I take part in the British forums just to irritate them with common sense answers they can not think of themselves.

The British "prepper" is never satisfied with the present situation no matter how perfect it might be.  He is always looking for a better place, with fewer laws, no people, an endless food supply,,,,and someone else is always supposed to find it for them!

"Tell me/show me/take me to/find me a place...", much like our ROTTW threads except more whiney.

The ones that are the most secure in their situations, the most self reliant and the best bushcrafters do not refer to themselves as either survivalists or preppers, just small holders, apartment dwellers with some emergency gear or enthusiastic outdoorsmen.  The last place they will be caught is a British survival forum.

Just ask Winnie.  She has been laying low through this discussion!

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## natertot

Kyrat, that seems to make sense to me. I just keep checking this guys threads for the entertainment value!

Others are right, ROTTW to live is not survival but a lifestyle choice. Someone around here as a signature that reads "survival isn't a game, it's what you do when the game goes south". 

WelshBoy, if you have any real desire to do any bit of what you say you want to do, then I would pull up a chair, think about your questions, and listen to the answers you get real carefully. I don't think that you really understand the quality level of advice you are receiving nor do you recognize the voice of experience from which it comes. If you aren't really serious about what you claim you want to do, leave on your own accord and quit being a pot stirrer.

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## hunter63

> Kyrat, that seems to make sense to me. I just keep checking this guys threads for the entertainment value!
> 
> Others are right, ROTTW to live is not survival but a lifestyle choice. Someone around here as a signature that reads "survival isn't a game, it's what you do when the game goes south". 
> 
> WelshBoy, if you have any real desire to do any bit of what you say you want to do, then I would pull up a chair, think about your questions, and listen to the answers you get real carefully. I don't think that you really understand the quality level of advice you are receiving nor do you recognize the voice of experience from which it comes. If you aren't really serious about what you claim you want to do, leave on your own accord and quit being a pot stirrer.


Aw man....lets just play along for a while....maybe one in a hundred will actually follow advice the is given from personnel experience, not from repeated interweb cut and pastes....simples because it was ask for, the get pissy when told they have the same unrealistic ideas and expectations.

Intrigues me that people find the their way here, ....some how, never heard of Google,..... and have the grass is greener ideas.

So we indulge the musing of dreamers, escapers, and general non conformists, that want to get away from people, rules, responsibly....and do it on the "look at me interweb".
We really don't care who you are, what you do....just do it ....then come back and say..."This was my experience" ....instead of "I'm fixin' on it"

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## Rick

> What's a Hong? Is it something you wear when yer young and skinny?




Not to change the subject, well okay, I guess I am. But someone asked for THE PICTURE.

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## crashdive123

You could always send it to him via PM..........but some may consider that child abuse.

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## TheWelshBoy

Wow a lot of key board warriors out there!! 

sorry if you feel i wasted your time, at the end of the day you didn't need to post on this thread if it wasn't relevant... but i guess that's just yanks being yanks...

to be honest i just wanted some good information and insight from people over the pond but i guess its hard to get past the 'greatest country on earth' bull**** ego you've all got going on

and FYI i thought i would underline above what actual trolling was because you sure as **** don't know much about it.... someone posting on a forum asking questions and answering questions that he/she has been asked and hoping to get some good answers (which by the way i did so thanks to those who have help) isnt really trolling.

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## Batch

The folks down here have always had their work cut out the minute they shot the game. They smoked the meat of most game and salted fish and hides. 

Smoke is free. Salt cost money and had to be carried in. Once roads came into to being down here in South Florida. They started using meat lockers and blocks of ice to help. You would just hang the gutted carcass over the smoke.

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## welderguy

> Wow a lot of key board warriors out there!! 
> 
> sorry if you feel i wasted your time, at the end of the day you didn't need to post on this thread if it wasn't relevant... but i guess that's just yanks being yanks...
> 
> to be honest i just wanted some good information and insight from people over the pond but i guess its hard to get past the 'greatest country on earth' bull**** ego you've all got going on
> 
> and FYI i thought i would underline above what actual trolling was because you sure as **** don't know much about it.... someone posting on a forum asking questions and answering questions that he/she has been asked and hoping to get some good answers (which by the way i did so thanks to those who have help) isnt really trolling.


bottom line is, if your parent/grandparents are from a farm and you lived there it tells me you learned nothing if you have to ask all these basic questions, and it also says you have no basic plan for prepping, you want to travel well come to north america. south america, Australia etc etc throw on a pack and go exploring till you find a place you like. its that simple .

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## natertot

> Wow a lot of key board warriors out there!! I have personally met several of the people on here. All kinds of different backgrounds. You are getting good solid advice and people here are trying to get you to screw your head on straight so you don't hurt/kill yourself doing the very things that we enjoy doing.
> 
> sorry if you feel i wasted your time, at the end of the day you didn't need to post on this thread if it wasn't relevant... but i guess that's just yanks being yanks...Really? You ask a question, we give you answers and advice, then you want to argue about it. If you know so much, then why are you asking? Then you want to turn the issue into an insult of country? Wow. Grow up.
> 
> to be honest i just wanted some good information and insight from people over the pond but i guess its hard to get past the 'greatest country on earth' bull**** ego you've all got going onYou are getting good information, you just aren't wise enough to realize it. Then out of frustration, you want to turn the issue into an insult of country? Once again..... grow up.
> 
> and FYI i thought i would underline above what actual trolling was because you sure as **** don't know much about it.... someone posting on a forum asking questions and answering questions that he/she has been asked and hoping to get some good answers (which by the way i did so thanks to those who have help) isnt really trolling.


We know trolling. We get it often, and you are flirting with the line. Asking questions and throwing a fit because you don't like the answers can be perceived as trolling. If you don't like it, grow up and accept the answers or move on.


Good luck!

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## crashdive123

Just because you didn't receive the fawning, glowing, instant gratification answers that you wanted does not mean that you received wrong/bad answers.  You have bigger issues than figuring out where to go live primitively/squat for a year.  Maybe you'll figure it out - maybe you won't.  Quite frankly none of us ego driven, Yank, keyboard commanders could care less.  Don't let the door to life hit you in the arse on the way out.

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## Rick

Mom and dad send him to school in another country and allow him to vacation in Italy and we have the egos. Go figure.

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## jdbushcraft

I thought I provided a darn interesting link.  Oh well

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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## hunter63

> I thought I provided a darn interesting link.  Oh well
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Actually you did......preservation of meat has been a very important to mankind since the first large animal was brought down....or more likely scavenged.
All this food, what to do with it?........What are we gonna do?

I really don't think there was a lot of thought by the OP as "bugging out" by nature means getting away from something.....there for leaving most of the processing equipment and supplies behind.

To say nothing of the time it would take to stalk, kill, clean, process and larger animal that can't be consumed in a couple of meals.

You would need to stop, and spend time to do so, to say nothing of a the meat smelling smoke or the smell of meat drying in the sun....with constant attention to keeping flies, and larger predators looking for a free meal.

Do you want the attention during a bug out?......I wouldn't.....I want to move fast, away from what ever caused me to leave most of my "good stuff" I can't carry, behind in the first place. 

Smoking, drying, pickling, curing, freezing in caches, even burying, may well be planed for and done in long term.....Never going back scenario, but choosing to live here.......................Or in the case of most all native peoples,....being nomadic to take advantage of resources,........and leave the stink behind for a year.  

Too many movies, TV, and homemade You tubes.......too little going out and trying it out.

Besides smoking fish, is really hard to keep lit.....
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## jdbushcraft

Pork seems particularly time consuming to preserve.  2 weeks of brining..  Then the materials.  Enough salt to float a good egg in the brine.  That's a lot.  Not an "on the move" procedure.

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## hunter63

I think I would grab a bag of jerky......

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## Rick

Pork is impossible to preserve. I eat it too fast to keep it.

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## 2dumb2kwit

Ohhhhhhhhhh......can I play? Huh, Rick.......Crash.....can I, Can I....HUH, HUH????? Hahahaha.

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## hunter63

> Ohhhhhhhhhh......can I play? Huh, Rick.......Crash.....can I, Can I....HUH, HUH????? Hahahaha.


Too late....LOL \......troll went back under the bridge.

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## welderguy

> Ohhhhhhhhhh......can I play? Huh, Rick.......Crash.....can I, Can I....HUH, HUH????? Hahahaha.


HAHAHAH see you miss out on all the fun !!!

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## 2dumb2kwit

> Too late....LOL \......troll went back under the bridge.





> HAHAHAH see you miss out on all the fun !!!


 Dang it. (sigh) :Sneaky2:

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## Wise Old Owl

> I have used sun drying for veggies....never meat.....meat has always been with a smoker or smoke house.
> 
> Has been done for 1000's of years...
> Check this out.
> http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...at-in-the-wild


`


Odd I think you nailed it.




> We are going around in circles here, and that is the point of the thread, unacceptable answers to an impossible question.
> 
> This is the norm for British survival forums.  I am active on several of them and face this kind of attitude on almost every thread whether it deals with small holdings/crofting (what we call homesteading), food storage or weapons selection.  A constant whining series of "I want/but what if/that's not good enough/you can't really expect me too../I already knew that",,, and the final finish off insult of "I expected better from a survival forum filled with experts!"
> 
> Their norm is what we refer too as "trolling".  
> 
> What they call trolling is someone making a decisive statement and backing it up with references, which they dismiss because it ends the argument.  Because of this they hate for Americans to join their forums and treat them with contempt, insults and abuse.  I take part in the British forums just to irritate them with common sense answers they can not think of themselves.
> 
> The British "prepper" is never satisfied with the present situation no matter how perfect it might be.  He is always looking for a better place, with fewer laws, no people, an endless food supply,,,,and someone else is always supposed to find it for them!
> ...



Ditto

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## TXyakr

Wow! Lots of unnecessary personal attacks on this thread from folks on both sides of the pond.

If a person for whatever reason was attempting primitive living and wanted to simply preseve some amimal meat: a simple smoker can work fairly well but is time consuming and flies and scavengers are a constant problem. I once saw a young bull steal piccary meat from a indigenous man's smoker and eat it. The man was very angry and twisted the bull's head while beating it. I could be remembering wrong but I think he called it a troll... but my knowledge of his language was minimal at the time.

The Portuguese have been salting and sun drying fish for over 1000 years. Then they soak it before eating, typically cook with rice and beans. It was never a favorite of mine as a kid but I like it now. Good for backpacking.

Be sure to pack some Imodium A.D. it can give you a sour stomach especially if you dried it yourself. TMI!

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## Wise Old Owl

> Mom and dad send him to school in another country and allow him to vacation in Italy and we have the egos. Go figure.


I have never been to Italy... uh we all have egos....

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## natertot

> I have never been to Italy... uh we all have egos....


I love egos. If you don't have any, they can be found in the freezer section at the grocery. The blueberry ones with butter syrup are my favorite!

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## TXyakr

> Mom and dad send him to school in another country and allow him to vacation in Italy and we have the egos. Go figure.


If you knew how to read the scale on a map you would realize that this is less of a distance than for someone from Chicago to send their kid to school in New York and vacation in Florida. A good friend of mine from grade school through high school was a researcher and professor at a major university in England (she is originally from England) but then transferred to one in Stockholm, Sweden, this is not a big deal in Europe. English is the commercial language there and most are multi-lingual. Moving from Texas to Maine is probably a bigger adjustment. Americans are not great with geography especially those that don't travel much.

All the OP originally wanted was some perspectives on preserving meat in primitive situations and he got met with hostility. No wonder this forum is so small and has little useful content. It would be under highly unusual circumstances that I would ever want to use either method to preserve meat in a primitive situation but perhaps if stuck on a remote island after ship wreaked or after surviving plane crash on a island far from shipping lanes or if all the roads were washed out in a remote area or something far less likely line in a war zone, after North Korea and Russia attack us... 1 chance in 10 billion... N.K. 5% accurate missiles, Russia 80% accurate at best.

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## natertot

> If you knew how to read the scale on a map you would realize that this is less of a distance than for someone from Chicago to send their kid to school in New York and vacation in Florida. A good friend of mine from grade school through high school was a researcher and professor at a major university in England (she is originally from England) but then transferred to one in Stockholm, Sweden, this is not a big deal in Europe. English is the commercial language there and most are multi-lingual. Moving from Texas to Maine is probably a bigger adjustment. Americans are not great with geography especially those that don't travel much.
> 
> All the OP originally wanted was some perspectives on preserving meat in primitive situations and he got met with hostility. No wonder this forum is so small and has little useful content. It would be under highly unusual circumstances that I would ever want to use either method to preserve meat in a primitive situation but perhaps if stuck on a remote island after ship wreaked or after surviving plane crash on a island far from shipping lanes or if all the roads were washed out in a remote area or something far less likely line in a war zone, after North Korea and Russia attack us... 1 chance in 10 billion... N.K. 5% accurate missiles, Russia 80% accurate at best.


Allllrighty then........ look! Coffee and pastries just arrived!

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## kyratshooter

The OP was met with "hostility" because he was baiting the members and arguing with each suggestion given.

And if you feel our forum is too small for a Texan who has traveled the world, and has so little useful content, don't let the door hit you on the way out!

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## TXyakr

This was an excellent answer to the OP's question, better than just telling him his question was foolish. There are some unusual situations were on a multi-day trek out of a remote area a person may want to dry/jerk some meat over night or dry it during the hot day and hike during the full moon at night. Assuming they made a kill of a fairly large animal or caught/took/shoot several smaller ones and were trying to get back to civilization before starving to death.




> I have made primitive jerky many times as demonstration at historic sites and in skills workshops.
> 
> First, jerk is not cooked, it is dried and smoked.  You never let the meat get hot enough to cook or you defeat the purpose.  160 degrees has distroyed the preservation of the meat and set up a whole different set of baceria to work against.  
> 
> Jerk has been a staple preservation method since the first human found out the meat he laid on a rock untill it dried out did not kill him.  Probably since he ran the first lion off a dead sun dried carcass.
> 
> Quit turning up your nose, you eat rare steak and have to pour the blood off half way through!  I have seen it too many times to even pay attention to the parisites and diseases issue in a jerky discussion.  If it does not count at the steakhouse it does not count over the campfire.
> 
> The drying and smoking cures the meat and the smoke is partly done to keep flies away from the meat as well as add flavor.
> ...


Why was the 2nd comment not a link to this comment my KYrat?
more details here:
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/_jth...php?f=8&t=1130

I have hiked ultra light for days in the amazon jungle with indigenous people who where almost "stone age" this is what they did, there are many variations to it but the concept is basically the same.

https://www.hedgehogleatherworks.com...vival-s/53.htm

Edit: If I were ever in some highly unusual situation where it was best to wait in place for rescue and signal for it and forced to preserve some highly unrecommended animal similar to a raccoon/coati or wild rabbit by jerking (smoke drying) or sun drying it, then I would soak it in water and bring it to a boil in some improvised pot or hole in a rock/log/bamboo to kill all the pathogens such as bacteria and the larval cysts of the tapeworm and many other species that may have survived the low temperature of the sun or smoke. Mostly I avoid yachting off the coat of crime infested Honduras and the pirate infested islands of Indonesia, difficult to hire enough armed guns to make that safe and it is not peaceful with all those heavy large caliber full autos on board... ha ha ha

More realistic is if you and some friends are on a multi-day hike or trip in BWCA and one gets injured and must wait there with one healthy person for emergency extraction while one or more hike out to get help (assuming satellite phone got damaged or you did not have a similar device). Not a bad idea to dry some fish or game while you wait. It could take several days, if you have ever hiked for a few days with no food you will understand the risks for poor decisions (brain works slower) and lack of coordination and strength increases the risk you will suffer an additional injury. Good idea to fast for several days several times a year but still workout in gym and run 3-15 miles day as usual, train for marathon and triathlons etc. so you know how your body will respond in case this ever happens to you for real. Some rabbits and squirrels are fairly lean in my experience and you can always trim away the obvious extra fat, not a big problem if you are going to eat it in just a few days. This is for survival not recreational snacks for car camping or a relaxing road trip! Some fish like carp and catfish can be very fatty and have more parasites, I would avoid that for recreational snacks obviously.

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## trapperjack

I sundry meat like this ....  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-55SsJVyhs

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## trapperjack

then I made this full version video of the traditional process its 33 minutes in length.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOrsEqjJlhc
   EDIT the meat takes on the condensed flavor of cooked meats.

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