# Survival > Survival Kits & Survival Products >  Rain shelter?

## 1stimestar

Crash's recent pictures made me think that I should probably think of simple rain shelters for my canoe camping trip next year.  I will have rain gear of course but it would be nice to have a small tarp or poncho or something to put up over a small fire while I am making dinner or something.  Must be light weight of course but it wouldn't need to be very big so I guess even a tarp would be light enough.  Pictures of set ups would be helpful.  Discuss.   :Nod:

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## finallyME

Walmart sells a 5X7 nylon tarp that is pretty small and is about $10 I think.

You could always make your own.  Tarps are easy, one big square/rectangle.

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## Tokwan

Look for the Sea To Summit Tarp Poncho...it comes with sewn in ends for you to tie strings to make a tarp. I bought one and its very reliable. Very light and compact. I have a 7/11 disposable pocho for a survival tarp..which I used when I teach survival.

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## 1stimestar

Lol FM yep, a big square.  

Thanks Tokwan.

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## MrFixIt

I keep a lightweight tarp (roughly 6x9) in my bag just for the purpose of a "quickie" shelter.
Very easy to string up (given you are in a forested area) and can be used for other duties.

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## hunter63

I carry a military style poncho...actually I got it from a friend at his surplus store....but Sportsman Guild sells several versions......
So poncho or shelter......
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist?k=poncho

BTW used milsurp ponchos generally smell bad.....just saying.......which was why they were outside in a bin for a couple of bucks.....
I bought a "second"...was about $15 bucks.

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## crashdive123

> Crash's recent pictures made me think that I should probably think of simple rain shelters for my canoe camping trip next year.  I will have rain gear of course but it would be nice to have a small tarp or poncho or something to put up over a small fire while I am making dinner or something.  Must be light weight of course but it wouldn't need to be very big so I guess even a tarp would be light enough.  Pictures of set ups would be helpful.  Discuss.


We all had tarps for our hammock setups and could easily sit under them when it rained.  But............being the social creatures that we are we picked up a fairly inexpensive 12 X 24 tarp at Walmart before launching.  It came in handy - served as a gathering area, cooking and whatever else area.

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## crashdive123

Here's a pic from a trail cam I had set up to get some "candid" shots.

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## crashdive123

The temperature reading on the cam must be psychotic.....(or is it psychic?) because that is the temp we were hoping for.  It was a lot warmer.

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## phreshayr

If you may be going to use it over a fire then if it was me, I would get a rather large, say about 12 X 16 cheap poly tarp.   That way if you get spark holes in it, no big deal.   Just patch the holes with Gorilla tape.  This is what me and my hunting buddy used this Fall for our Caribou / moose hunting river boat trips.  With a fire in the Middle under the tarp it was a nice size for the two of us to have our cooking gear layed out and still have room for the 2 of us to move around.

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## Winnie

I've used the Walmart $10 tarp and it's fine. It kept me dry during a thunderstorm and I have also slept under it. The only problem I found was the eyelets pulled through the tarp, but I had some grippy things and elasticated tarp bungees anyway so it didn't matter.
It folds up small enough to fit in your pocket, and comes in a carrying pouch with some cordage.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Outdoor-Pr...-Blue/36547567

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## finallyME

> I've used the Walmart $10 tarp and it's fine. It kept me dry during a thunderstorm and I have also slept under it. The only problem I found was the eyelets pulled through the tarp, but I had some grippy things and elasticated tarp bungees anyway so it didn't matter.
> It folds up small enough to fit in your pocket, and comes in a carrying pouch with some cordage.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Outdoor-Pr...-Blue/36547567


I've never actually used the tarp, so it is interesting to hear from someone who has.  I have just seen it on the shelf.  I like the fact that it is nylon and not the woven PE tarps.  Of course, to me, 5'X7' is too small to sleep under.  I like 8'X10'.  I guess you could always take the gromments off and sew webbing loops on it.

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## hunter63

> I've used the Walmart $10 tarp and it's fine. It kept me dry during a thunderstorm and I have also slept under it. The only problem I found was the eyelets pulled through the tarp, but I had some grippy things and elasticated tarp bungees anyway so it didn't matter.
> It folds up small enough to fit in your pocket, and comes in a carrying pouch with some cordage.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Outdoor-Pr...-Blue/36547567


Wow, y'all got a Walmart?......
I have use the plastic squeeze together tarp clips....sorta like these....
http://www.zoro.com/i/G4480007/?utm_...FSpp7AodoTEA9Q

Also consider these tarps "one way-ers"....they make it thru the week end for $10 bucks....good enough for me.....Just don't litter.

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## Winnie

Yep, them`s the things H. We don`t havw Walmart, but I got a couple when I visited a couple of years ago.
It was the fact they are nylon that I got a couple. Nylon Tarps are not cheap over here. I still have both and they have worn well.

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## Rick

Don't forget you can use a simple rock to tie your tarp if the grommets pull out. 

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## hunter63

> Don't forget you can use a simple rock to tie your tarp if the grommets pull out. 
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.



So, Like what is the Best rock to use....and where do I find one?

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## phreshayr

> So, Like what is the Best rock to use....and where do I find one?


I heard that in the more urban environments that you should be able to get a hard variety from certain cafes.  The cafe is called something like Hard Rock Cafe.   They would probably be able to set you up with the most suitable variety if anyone could.    Now if you are out in the wilderness you just might be out of luck unless you are lucky enough to come across someones pet rock that has gone feral.   Of course it may turn out to be an unsuitable variety after all.

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## phreshayr

Now that I get to thinking about it I believe that I do recall that the feral pet rocks are usually quite suitable since they tend to be skinnier than the truly wild rocks.   I also heard that since the feral rocks have already rolled off from the original owners once already that you may have a hard time with them staying put once placed in the tarp.

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## hunter63

Yeah, Thanks....I gonna check and see if I have a app for that.......

Actually all kidding aside...I have used a big "contractors garbage bag", split on 3 sides, and use the rock in the corner trick....pulled over a dead fall, muzzle loader hunting....to keep my powder dry....(an me)

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## phreshayr

Perhaps you are better off picking up a bunch on your way out of town after all from cafes or the kids rock concerts if one happens to be in town.    Those feral ones are just plain too unpredictable.

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## Winter

If you ever take my advice on anything, take it now.

Get a 10'x12', at least, tarp. The minimalist human body sized tarps are for children who don't ache and creak in the morning.

"I'm only sorta wet"; was OK before arthritis, it isn't now.

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## phreshayr

Also in all seriousness,  if one finds themselves in a rockless environment, you can just cut off short sections of a thin bush or tree branch that are ohh say about one inch square give or take.

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## hunter63

Plain old knot works as well......LOL...
Some time we over think stuff and over gear it....lets face it this isn't supposed to last 300 years, just till the rain stops, or morning comes....

So the "OMG I don't have a rock ....must be I'm gonna die"...should be looked at is "Well, plan "c" says, knot....."

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## Winter

> Plain old knot works as well......LOL...
> Some time we over think stuff and over gear it....lets face it this isn't supposed to last 300 years, just till the rain stops, or morning comes....
> 
> So the "OMG I don't have a rock ....must be I'm gonna die"...should be looked at is "Well, plan "c" says, knot....."


How does a knot around tarp work? I've been tarp camping for 30 yrs and without a keeper (rock, short stick, a coin, piece of ice) to tie around, or a grommet or loop to tie to, you don't have overhead cover for long. You have a ground cloth waiting to happen.

You also don't wait till it rains to set up your tarp or take it down when the rain stops.

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## hunter63

> How does a knot around tarp work? I've been tarp camping for 30 yrs and without a keeper (rock, short stick, a coin, piece of ice) to tie around, or a grommet or loop to tie to, you don't have overhead cover for long. You have a ground cloth waiting to happen.
> 
> You also don't wait till it rains to set up your tarp or take it down when the rain stops.


No ship?.........Well thank you for your concern................

Well, I not gonna go out ruin a garbage bag to show how a knot can be tied in all four corners, so as to tie it up if needed....I sure most people are aware how to tie a simple knot.

Only used it in a rain storm that came up........
Point is that some time things don't go as planned.

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## Rick

I sort of picture myself standing under about six gallons of pooled water staring at a knot thinking. "Yeah, it's slipping. Not gonna hold long. Best move."

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## Winter

You are tying the actual tarp?

I can see how that would work once.

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## hunter63

What ever....................I guess thinking and doing out side the box doesn't apply.....
Like I said....not all things go as planned.

Carry on...I guess you had to be there.

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## Winter

Does the S is WSF stand for snarky?

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## phreshayr

If done correctly, a person can bunch up a corner of the tarp and tie a knot around the bunch tightly leaving a suitable length of tag end on the rope.   Now take the left over tarp corner and fold it back on to itself right at the knot.    Now tie another tight knot "above" or beyond the first knot around the bunched up corner AND the folded corner end, tying them together against each other and you are good to go.    If done correctly with nylon tarp it won't slip.

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## phreshayr

I think that sounds like a great video to do so that people who learn visually can see what to do if a grommet comes loose.    I will see if I can do a video on that today.   If I get it done, I will start a new thread here so as not to hijack this one.

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## hunter63

Deleted ...Not gonna play...........

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## Rick

It all works. Tie a knot in the corner then tie the rope on.

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## ElevenBravo

I will have to second the 10x12 tarp!  Having one a bit wee big is WAAAY better than a bit wee small!!

If I am carrying in my pack for field, I LOVE my USMC field tarp.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...827&mfe=search

EB

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## RangerXanatos

When a rock is nowhere to be found, I've always been able to find dirt and leaf debris to make the "button."

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## Tokwan

Think of other alternatives..what is a rock for? One can use a piece of wood, or about anything else. This is a survival forum, and its all about alternatives. What ever you do, if it works, and you survive, then its right!
You can tie the end of a tarp, then fold the corner over a knot and tie again..it will hold...practice , practice and practice!

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## finallyME

I hate grommets, so I would just take the grommet out and sew in a webbing loop......before I leave home.  Now I don't need a rock, or a knot.

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## xjosh40x

A 10x12 tarp from Walmart or Harbor Frieght would be great. Don't forget 550 cord. And I'd suggest something I've done on my kayak once. I built some poles for 3/4 PVC and harnessed it to the kayak. Could do well on a canoe if the rain comes down hard.

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## Chinora

I came across this video of a emergency rain shelter with a reflective inside and a thicker coating on the outside. Granted this isn't by any means a long term or muti-use shelter or tarp. But the idea is flawless, build a fire closer to your shelter to have the heat reflect off the inside of your shelter and stay warm for those cold nights or even winter months.

Maybe some tinkering to a tarp could achieve this idea but more of a long term and muti-use shelter. 

Here is the video, 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgl...y4X3lLCjhw3UaQ

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## pete lynch

Looks a lot like a lightweight casualty blanket.

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## Tokwan

1stimestar, see the review of the Sea to Summit Tarp poncho...this means carry less item as its both a poncho and a tarp...very very light, small pack or hang it outside of backpack.

I have 2 of them....very very good and reliable.

http://www.barefootjake.com/2012/06/...rp-review.html

Or take a look at the web site

http://www.seatosummit.com/products/display/6

or its u tube. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2m95EwExnc

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## wilderness medic

I use the Stratospire 2 from Tarptents. It is a 1-2 person UL shelter that uses trekking poles to set up. The "tarp" can be set up alone, as well as the inside netted bug protection and bathtub footprint.

Take a look, many pictures.

http://www.tarptent.com/stratospire2.html

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## randyt

I generally use a poly tarp, size depends on the number of folks and duration of the camp site.

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## Farley

I grabbed the 4 awning panels from a screen tent that was being tossed by a friend.
Some grommets and nylon webbing give them versatility.  What I would like to figure out, is how to bind 2 together so I could make an A frame with closable ends.
They fold up fairly small and don't weigh too much either.

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## Rick

Can you install snaps like a pup tent?

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## Graf

I have always opted for tarp 10x12 easy to pack you can create more variations than a tent can offer, I also build dakota fire pits in mine, small fire but hot and remains fairly hidden, Tarp I use is brown on one side silver on the other I use the silver side facing the fire to reflect the heat and the brown exterior acts as camo. Ricks diagram of using a rock works well as long as no sharp edges, usally keep a bag of marbles in my pack for both slingshot ammo and to use in place of the rocks in create  tie offs on the tarp

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## Farley

> Can you install snaps like a pup tent?


  Rick,

Not a bad idea at all, thanks.

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## Rick

If you set your snaps in about three or four inches from the edge on the section that snaps on top you'll have an overlap that should help shed water at the ridge.

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## canid

A tarp or similar arrangement can certainly enlarge it but I find that the craft itself makes a fine shelter. I believe I've seen Voyageur paintings of that exact setup.

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## Batch

Tokwan,

I would think being in a tropical environment you would not like ponchos over more breathable rain gear. Ponchoes are sweaty and drip when active in them. I own a poncho tarp. But, I have a couple of different rain jackets I would choose first.

I have used the tarp on my hammock. This is pulled taught for head room and shade.

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Tarp and cheapo parachute hammock

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I have a grommet emergency blanket in my pack along with a couple of contractor garbage bags. I prefer sand buttons and have tied the garbage bags into shelters with good results. We have used large tarps in place of our normal easy ups. I would just say don't go too big. The wind in a storm will play havoc on a tarp that is too big. 

I have a sil nylon tarp that is 16' X 12' and even mild winds put a load on it. I have found it a challenge not to tear the tarp when getting it tight enough. I had to send the first one back because the grommets suck and the tie in strap ripped. 

I have decades worth of retired camping tents with poles. I am going to use that tarp to make a covered wagon out of my 16' trailer we haul the ATVs on.

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## Farley

> If you set your snaps in about three or four inches from the edge on the section that snaps on top you'll have an overlap that should help shed water at the ridge.


  Yup, I can see it now.
Not just a pretty face and hong model eh?

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## Tokwan

Hi Batch, yep. the army ponchos are sweaty and drip, but not the Sea To Summit Tarp /Poncho..its simple great for my weather, why? the foliage is thick and filters out the rain when you are in a certain area...it depends on what tarp poncho you are using....and it is very very lightweight..almost ultralight.

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## natertot

> I grabbed the 4 awning panels from a screen tent that was being tossed by a friend.
> Some grommets and nylon webbing give them versatility.  What I would like to figure out, is how to bind 2 together so I could make an A frame with closable ends.
> They fold up fairly small and don't weigh too much either.


Also maybe able to stich or glue Velcro as well.

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## Farley

I was thinking snaps or guy out loops would last longer in high winds.  Velcro would probably do well, but if I'm getting out the tools and sewing machine, I might as well go whole hog!

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## edr730

If a tarp is set up in a way that is the most durable, it should last an entire winter. The grommets should be no problem and they shouldn't wear in areas that rub constantly. You shouldn't need to tend them constantly....or at all. 
What happens with tarps that are tied down with ropes is that the wind whips the tarp up and down and the rope becomes a bit loose and enventually it moves like a bull whip and will tear apart the grommet and tarp no matter how well sewn. Simple weights, rather than tie down ropes, hung from the grommets is usually sufficient to solve the problem. If you want to go a step futher to increase the longevity of the tarp, you can run a rope in and out of the grommets rather loosely and then put a long stick in and out of the rope and tie your ropes from this pole. This will put even pressure on all the grommets as well as a weight to stop the bull whipping from the wind.  But of course, tying to a flexible tree ,some weights or bungie cords will help.
Another problem with a tarp is that it will sag and collect the rain, snow and ice. A ridge pole works pretty good. But even this good method has it's limitations. Eventually the pole will wear the tarp with it's sharper points or knots. 
The ideal is to take a sapling and shove it up under the tarp and spread it's branches to form a  perfect umbrella. the tiny branches will not wear the tarp. The limbs will become places to hang coats, packs, pans, things that need to dry....everything. If it is not done properly it will eventually fall. A living rooted sapling is ideal and can't fall. 
This is just a very basic explanation of methods of using tarps that comes from experience that I doubt is on the internet.  Experience and watching the tarp in the wind will teach you how you need to adjust your tarp to keep it from being damaged.

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## Rick

Instead of a center pole I use paracord to form the peak just as in Batch's 2nd pic. I've never had a problem with it wearing the tarp. There was light rain in the forecast for this pic so I put up the tarp for a little more 'living" area. 

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## Tokwan

Frankly, that is the practice (of having a other cover over your tent or hammock) that should be followed. If not, you will be stuck in the tent the whole day. With an extra cover, you ensure you sleep dry, and you can do other activities under the cover without getting wet.

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## 1stimestar

That's what I was wanting it for Tok.

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## TXyakr

If you are using it near a fire material resistant to embers like 500 denier may be worth it especially if your primary transport is canoe/ATV or pack horse etc.:

Here is just one example but there are probably 100 more if you go looking:
http://www.rockywoods.com/Fabrics-Ki...-Retardant-ACU

Water resistant and treated with flame retardant.

All you need to know is how to sew a basic seam on a sewing machine or know someone who does.

Here are some patterns but search around and you can find many more on YT etc.:

http://diygearsupply.com/diy-guides/tarps/

A very simple symmetrical diamond tarp with cat-cut edges is fast and simple to set up but does not protect as well from strong winds with driving rain/sleet/snow like the other more complex patterns which require more guy-lines and time to set up and take down.

When not by a fire and in the summer time I like SilNylon but a small fire ember will melt a hole in this fabric.

One of several methods to make a cat-cut on a tarp, jump to minute 1:40. use this this concept regardless of what fabric you chose. Heck you could buy cheap Tyvek and glue it with super glue and/or duct-tape:



cat-cut edges reduce all that wind flapping noise.

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## hunter63

Ever since the early days, and after the pup tents ...there was always some sort of fly...... 

From the cheapy Kmart Tent....we used a screen house set up over the tent....hung the center tie.... up in a tree.
You can really make your life  more pleasant....several different set ups....

Newest SG tent, Walmart awning....
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Rondy...

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Early Kitchen fly used with Tipi....

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One of the Alaska show, can't remember the name....but a guy wife (Inuit) and 3 daughters det up summer camp and using a kitchen fly.....for out door shelter in bad weather

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## TXyakr

Here are some embarrassing photos of my nylon tarps, but not near a fire due to danger of sparks burning holes in them. It would appear by the suspension lines that I set them up in the dark after drinking far to much tequila. I should have paddled faster and drunk less. ;-) Sabine River. Will try to add more but must reduce resolution 1st.
SabineTarpSM.jpg

HiViz para cord line and red chair defeats the purpose of camo tarp but easier to find at night.
SabineTarp2sm.jpg

San Marcos car camping in 85F night lows - 110F highs
drunken, heat stroke suspension system, worst ever
sanmarcosTarp.jpg

Slightly less drunk on the Kiamichi river, "river stone" island, canoe wilderness camping.
KiamichiTarp1.jpg

Note aluminum pot bottom far left with tea candles, later stacked river stones around them to reduce humidity trapped under tarp when I closed flaps for the night. January in Oklahoma, temps only down to 25 or 28F, basically shorts and T-shirt weather compared to Alaska.

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## TXyakr

Those simple $10 polyester diamond shaped tarps from Yukon outfitters are reasonably good. Many people trying to go light weight prefer Silicon treated nylon (SilNylon) or Cuben Fiber but 190T polyester with polyurethane coating can actually hold up better to sunlight (UV), so may be worth the weigh penalty for such a small tarp. I also like the tarps that have grosgrain loops along the top or as side panel pull outs this allows you to run a cord thru them and suspend to nearby trees etc to reduce the rain puddles on it and increase the head space below.

From time to time you can find Yukon on sale at Woot dot com (sorry if that is spam) I have never purchase from that site but it is very popular with many camping people, most of their stuff is a little junky to me but everything I take camping gets trashed anyway so what the woot.

I recommend just cutting or finding on the ground some sticks or poles to hold up the corners and "Pitching" a tarp like this in "porch" mode, then only pull the corners down to the ground if it is going to rain hard or strong winds. Many YT videos showing this here is one, from a guy who sells very expensive tarps. minutes 5:30 to 6:30




One of my photos in comment above and other people's photos in previous comments showed porch mode tarps better, point is sticks or found poles make this easy to do if a nearby tree or shrub is not convenient, or use a trekking pole or canoe/kayak paddle etc.

I also have a "Free Standing" Tri-pod shelter from Abo that I replaced the fiberglass poles with aluminum to make it lighter and pack smaller but I rarely use, mostly just when on a sand bar/beach with no trees. These and Kelty shade maker versions etc are a pain to set up and pack and even with all aluminum poles or not do not fit in a small kayak.

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## 1stimestar

> Ever since the early days, and after the pup tents ...there was always some sort of fly...... 
> 
> From the cheapy Kmart Tent....we used a screen house set up over the tent....hung the center tie.... up in a tree.
> You can really make your life  more pleasant....several different set ups....
> 
> Newest SG tent, Walmart awning....
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> Rondy...
> ...


That was Life Below Zero, the one I'm going to be on, if they don't cut me out again lol.

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