# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  Survival: Food Hoarding May Be Illegal......NO?....Check this out:

## BraggSurvivor

Special to The New York Times. 

May 30, 1918, Thursday 

If you don't think food hoarding can be made illegal, you've got to read this archived NY Times report from 1918; 

NAVY MAN INDICTED FOR FOOD HOARDING; Medical Director Nash Had Tons of Food Supplies Stored in His Home. WIFE IS ACCUSED ALSO She Inherited a Legacy and Couple Invested Heavily to Forestall Any Food Shortage. 



http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...639C946996D6CF

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## beerrunner13

Big brother has been around a long time and is always getting bigger.  FEMA has some scarey powers should a disaster be declared and we saw in New Orleans how well they are run.

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## Rick

Of course it can. So can owning gold and silver.......ahem.

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## BraggSurvivor

What gold and silver? Where is the evidence?    :Wink:

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## Alpine_Sapper

> Special to The New York Times. 
> 
> May 30, 1918, Thursday 
> 
> If you don't think food hoarding can be made illegal, you've got to read this archived NY Times report from 1918; 
> 
> NAVY MAN INDICTED FOR FOOD HOARDING; Medical Director Nash Had Tons of Food Supplies Stored in His Home. WIFE IS ACCUSED ALSO She Inherited a Legacy and Couple Invested Heavily to Forestall Any Food Shortage. 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that law still on teh b00ks?

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## BraggSurvivor

The short answer is YES, in a roundabout way.  Executive Orders have to be written.

Executive Orders (EO) have been used by presidents since the days of George Washington. The first EO addressed Washington's normal household expenses which ones were be accepted and paid by the Treasury Department. Pretty innocuous. The FBI was formed under an executive order by Teddy Roosevelt on July 26, 1908. The first time it was used to make a law was in 1916 by President Woodrow Wilson. It was said to be an 'emergency' measure and Congress was encouraged to validate it. They did and now the door was now open to ignore the Constitution. This is the same method used by Franklin Roosevelt in 1933 to close all the banks in the country. Americans were ordered to turn in all their gold to local banks.

The general purpose of an executive order is to provide the President with a mechanism for executing laws passed by Congress, not control of lives. These EOs are issued by the President as directives to agencies responsible for implementing laws.

Since the U.S. Constitution places responsibility for executing laws in the hands of the President, issuing EOs is an appropriate means of carrying out the responsibilities IF they are within the bounds of the Constitution. President Kennedy, during his short time in office, signed into law 214 Executive Orders. Numerous Kennedy EOs have brought about positive changes for the American people such as:

11063 - Equal Opportunity in Housing

10914 - Food Distribution to Needy Families

11022 - Council on Aging

11925 - Equal Opportunity in Employment

These Kennedy EOs have a distinctly different flavor though aimed at preserving individual rights, not usurping them. Many EOs overstep Constitutional authority and consequently, are an exercise of unconstitutional power. 

So Where Do Anti-Hoarding Laws Come In?

These ideas of anti-hoarding legislation may have stemmed from two areas of confusion: 

First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919:

10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US; 
10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private; 
10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment; 
10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways;
11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires; 
11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private; 
11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US
11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft; 
11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds; 
11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private; 
11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency"). 

These EOs are not aimed at anti-hoarding but rather at seizure or confiscation of items and facilities "to provide a state of readiness in these resource areas with respect to all conditions of national emergency, including attack upon the United States." You'll find most 'seizure' legislation ends with this phrase. These Executive Orders don't define what specifically constitutes a national emergency and maybe this is as it should be. The specifics on hoarding are left up to the individual states.

What Is FEMA's Role?

EO #11051 is interesting; it authorizes FEMA near-total power in times of crisis. There's been lots of discussion on the Internet regarding the excessive control FEMA has been granted and it was pointedly commented upon in July's world premiere movie release of the "X-Files".

FEMA was created by President Carter under Executive Order #12148. Its legal authorization is Title 42, United States Code 5121 (42 USC Sec. 5121) called the "Stafford Act." During activation of Executive Orders, FEMA answers only to the National Security Council which answers only to the President. Once these powers are invoked, not even Congress can intervene or countermand them for six months.

Many people have balked about FEMA's extensive authority, but think about it, what other agency has the manpower to cover and implement aid? As it is, FEMA still does not have the manpower to control every city all over the US in times of crisis. Chances are they would only be dispatched to larger metropolitan areas where more crowd control might be needed. Lots of people suggest darker reasons for their existence, but this site is only addressing anti-hoarding legislation, nothing else.

EO #11051 covering "economic or financial crisis" certainly would have terrorism implications as well. An emergency does not have to be defined as another Hurricane Hugo or massive Midwestern flooding.

State Legislation's Role in Anti-Hoarding

The other area where anti-hoarding confusion might have arisen is state legislation. Most states have chosen to enact their own anti-hoarding laws. That means some states may not have such laws, others do and not all are uniform. However, uniformity of state law is something governors are striving for under the Interstate Compact Agreement. The Compact Agreements, much like Executive Orders for the president, really don't require voters' input. They are law if the legislature doesn't object, much like Congress that has 30 days to object to an EO before it becomes law. 

At times of "declared emergencies", each governor cedes (gives over) authority of his/her state to the federal government. When a governor declares it for his state, he becomes the delegated representative of the federal government according to an Interstate Compact Agreement. Bottom line, even though federal legislation does not directly address anti-hoarding, goods can be seized if national circumstances are felt to warrant it whether or not amounts stored are deemed excessive in your state's eyes.

How Can I Find The Legislation for My State?

Since these anti-hoarding laws are not federal in nature, one would need to look at Titles for his/her own state. These statutes should be located under Public Safety laws or titles. For specific URLs go to State Legislation Locator. To locate information for your state, look for laws about**:

Blood Typing  
Disaster Preparedness  
Emergencies 
Hoarding 
Injections 
Martial Law 
Militia 
National Guard  
Public Safety or Public Welfare 
State Militia 
State Police Force 
Hawaii As A Specific Example of Anti-Hoarding

For Hawaii, this information will be found in Title 10 under "Public Safety". It is located after legislation on militias, state guard troops, etc. Then you find the jewel... In Hawaii you are considered a "hoarder" if you have more than one week's provisions on hand BUT you have to dig to uncover this information. Here is a specific example:

"HAWAII REVISED STATUTES REVISED 1997, Title 10:

(1) Prevention of *hoarding, waste, etc. To the extent necessary to prevent hoarding, waste, or destruction of materials, supplies, commodities, accommodations, facilities, and services, to effectuate equitable distribution thereof, or to establish priorities therein as the public welfare may require, to investigate, and any other law to the contrary notwithstanding, to regulate or prohibit, by means of licensing, rationing, or otherwise, the storage, transportation, use, possession, maintenance, furnishing, sale, or distribution thereof, and any business or any transaction related thereto."

OK, So If I Hoard, Then What?

Again using Hawaii's Titles as an example, any items in excess of what legislation has deemed appropriate to store (in Hawaii's case any amount over 1 week) is subject to forfeiture and may be confiscated, ordered destroyed or may be redistributed for public use. See exact text below:

"128-28 Forfeitures. The forfeiture of any property unlawfully possessed, pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 128-8, may be adjudged upon conviction of the offender found to be unlawfully in possession of the same, where no person other than the offender is entitled to notice and hearing with respect to the forfeiture, or the forfeiture may be enforced by an appropriate civil proceeding brought in the name of the State. The district courts and circuit courts shall have concurrent jurisdiction of the civil proceedings. Any property forfeited as provided in this section may be ordered destroyed, or may be ordered delivered for public use to such agency as shall be designated by the governor or the governor's representative, or may be ordered sold, wholly or partially, for the account of the State.

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## MCBushbaby

Bragg;

First off that was during WWI, so special restrictions (i.e. RATIONS) apply.
Second, he was enlisted.  So of course he's not allowed to use his position to hoard food.

Anyone can hoard as much food as they want as a noncommissioned citizen in peacetime.  Likewise if war or your favorite SHTF pastime occurs, no action can be brought against you.

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## BraggSurvivor

> Bragg;
> 
>   Likewise if war or your favorite SHTF pastime occurs, no action can be brought against you.



That's a bet I wouldnt wager.

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## BraggSurvivor

Essentially, doing anything to save yourself and yours is potentially illegal. You are either already a criminal, or will be as the laws are changed. Best to get your mind around that concept now.

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## MCBushbaby

> That's a bet I wouldnt wager.


So let me get this straight...
According to you, if I had the foresight to load up on (hoard) nonperishables and then TSHTF, I could have some legal action taken against me?  No, unless you live in some communist or dictator-led country, you're safe.

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## trax

Unless the jackboots are coming around kicking in doors (and if you're one of those coming through my door, it isn't real smart to be the first one, ok?) who's going to know that you have food hoarded? Not like you put up a hiway sign that says..hey looters and foragers free groceries at the end of this road..

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## BraggSurvivor

Safe from what mitch? If SHTF, nobody is safe.

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## BraggSurvivor

> Unless the jackboots are coming around kicking in doors (and if you're one of those coming through my door, it isn't real smart to be the first one, ok?) who's going to know that you have food hoarded? Not like you put up a hiway sign that says..hey looters and foragers free groceries at the end of this road..



It's dangerous having a stockpile of anything. All you need is someone, even your child, making a slip of the tongue. Then the word spreads like wildfire. Sure you may have guns, but UNCLE SAM always has more guns. 

This case sounds like further argument for having property in another country (that isn't involved in a war or martial law).

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## MCBushbaby

lol, your point was summed up nicely "It's dangerous having a stockpile of anything."
I'd much rather not stock up on supplies, removing whatever risk you are manifesting, and instead be a highway robber because it's 'not dangerous'.  :P
Trax makes a good point, noone knows you have more stuff than them and even if they did, "uncle sam" isn't worried about "john q" in the mountains, and certainly aren't going to storm your house.

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## crashdive123

> It's dangerous having a stockpile of anything. All you need is someone, even your child, making a slip of the tongue. Then the word spreads like wildfire. Sure you may have guns, but UNCLE SAM always has more guns. 
> 
> This case sounds like further argument for having property in another country (that isn't involved in a war or martial law).


.........or posting pictures of your nice new shelves in your garage to store another years worth of food.

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## Rick

Mitch - In theory, Bragg is correct. It's a long part of our own history and doesn't stop at our borders. We confiscated places during the French and Indian and Revolutionary Wars as well as the Civil Wars. It might have been a place for the men to sleep or supplies to feed or otherwise maintain the welfare of the troops. Ask the Brits about American servicemen staying in their homes during WWII. 

The government (and the states for that matter) have dominion over everything in a time of "need". Yes, they could take your supply if it was needed to feed troops for examples. But it's not something I would lose sleep over. 

Bragg - I wish all U.S. citizens had as clear understanding of how we work as you seem to.

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## trax

Rick made a good point and I wanted to mention something like it earlier. Agree or disagree with Bragg on this, but you have to admire the amount of homework he's done.

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## Alpine_Sapper

> Unless the jackboots are coming around kicking in doors (and if you're one of those coming through my door, it isn't real smart to be the first one, ok?) who's going to know that you have food hoarded? Not like you put up a hiway sign that says..hey looters and foragers free groceries at the end of this road..


First, second, third... It ain't real smart to be one of the ones still standing there after the I.E.D. was tripped.  :Big Grin:

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## Rick

Oh, jeese. I forgot to mention the Japanese Americans during WWII as well. Lawful, American citizens that were stripped of property and possessions and interred without due process. You'll notice that German and Italian Americans did not suffer the same fate. Governments, all governments, hold that extra ace up their sleeve.

Can you say Guantanamo?

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## Rick

I agree with that. I think knowledge is power. Look at your own workplace. How many people complain because someone got some perk and they didn't? I'm sure everyone here can site some example of that. And this at a time when nothing is at stake other than some stupid perk. What would happen if people were hungry or thirsty or cold? Remy is right on the mark. 

I should also have mentioned the law of eminent domain that gives the feds, states and even corporations the power to take your land for the common good. To build a substation, a road or even a lake. That occurs in this country, more or less, on a daily basis somewhere.

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## crashdive123

Well said Remy.  

To anybody that thinks it can't or won't happen, Rick makes some good points about the history of this country.  You need not look back so far to see what most of us take for granted as our rights being violated.  The confiscation of weapons in the aftermath of Katrina was very alarming.  True, it was on the local level, but it gives us all an insight into what is possible if we allow it to happen.

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## BraggSurvivor

> .........or posting pictures of your nice new shelves in your garage to store another years worth of food.



You know crash, I have no problem posting pictures of what I've done or have. I have been blessed and have more than enough to be able to share it. If a family walked up my road hungry, cold and in need, theres no way I could turn them away or for that matter pull out a gun to defend my material things. In other posts I may have talked tough, but deep down I'm a pussy for those in need. I dont consider it hoarding, I consider it preparation.


Now, if they were hostile......I'm known to be a very good shot.  :Wink:

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## crashdive123

> You know crash, I have no problem posting pictures of what I've done or have. I have been blessed and have more than enough to be able to share it. If a family walked up my road hungry, cold and in need, theres no way I could turn them away or for that matter pull out a gun to defend my material things. In other posts I may have talked tough, but deep down I'm a pussy for those in need. I dont consider it hoarding, I consider it preparation.
> 
> 
> Now, if they were hostile......I'm known to be a very good shot.


As government satellite zero's in on location the radio's come to life.  All agents, attention all agents he is well armed, and a good shot.  Move to plan "B".

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## BraggSurvivor

LOL!!! Excellent post!

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## Rick

Bragg - If it's a bunch of pygmies on Shetland ponies it's just Trax and his cavalry. (God bless 'em down there in New Guinea.)

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## BlackDog

Eminent domain is outlawed in TN. Thank God! Although the state is going more left than I want to see. In most states isn't there a Good Samaritan law that requires one to provide shelter to a person who is in imminent danger (such as someone running from a bear or an attacker)? If the home is fortified enough so that the bear and attacker will go away and doesn't put everyone in the house in the same danger by providing that shelter, is that different than providing a "reasonable" amount of food and water to a starving or thirsty victim? In both situations it seems a person might be in dire need and the homeowner is placing himself and the others residing in the home at risk, by risking that the predator will break into the home or that the disaster won't end soon enough and the homeowner run out of food and water b/c he shared it. Or are we strictly talking about the Black Hand stepping in to take away your food, punish you, and then distribute it?

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## Rick

I think in this case we're talking about gov'ts right to seize anything you've hoarded such as food.

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## Rick

Black Dog - Eminent Domain was not outlawed. The Supreme Court made a ruling that simply defined when it could be use and for what purposes. Land can still be taken for public works

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/natres/emindomainleg06.htm

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## Sourdough

It is interesting that we are so "UNCLEAR" about this.

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## Rick

What are we unclear about?

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## Excalibur

If you have it and the powers that be want it and they know you have it they will come and get it and if you try to stop them they will slander you in the media and make you look "some crazed survival cultist" fired on my ATF guys so we had to take swift and  blah blah blah.  Your gone the have your stuff and your the bad guy

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## Sourdough

Where is the line....A whole 714 Pounds of moose in the freeze, I have a friend whose family eats on average two to three moose per year. I need One moose every other year. Who is hoarding. I bought three cases of Sailor Boy Pilot bread on Monday, there are 12 boxes in each case; am I hoarding. I have five trucks; am I hoarding trucks. What about CEO's of large Corporations that make Two hundred million dollars a year; To me they are hoarding money. Ted Turner is the largest land owner in America. Is he hoarding land??? Maybe I just like to invest heavely in store-able food. It is going up about 17.7% per year. Not a bad return...... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Sourdough

> What are we unclear about?


We Americans are unclear about what is hoarding....???? And if it is illegal. And where the line is.

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## crashdive123

I am not a hoarder..............I'm a PACK RAT!

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## Rick

I would think it would be at the discretion of the LT. or Capt. or Maj or whoever happens to be standing at your door. 

They just don't take your land from you. They offer you "fair market value" for it. You can look up the definition for that at your leisure. Good luck on finding it. 

One of the guys I worked with had about 30 acres and the power co. wanted 2 acres for a substation. He vowed to fight them to the death. They weren't taking his property. I told him he was nuts. Take the money and work out some deal that they have to give him 20 poles or whatever the heck he wanted. Nothing doing. So he fought 'em, went to court, lost the case and wound up with about $2 an acre after he paid his lawyer.

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## BraggSurvivor

Available from The Lawful Path website, a handy No Trespass sign. 

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/notres.shtml 
############################################## 
No Trespass 

Notice of Foreign Law, on 
Private Land; Read before entering: 

You are hereby noticed that entering This land subjects You to This contract: 

This land is private, and is not subject to public use or control. The Owner has the character suae potestate esse. Over This land flies the American Banner of Peace, and the Law thereon is the Holy Scriptures, and the Christian lex non scripta. The Owner has enacted other various ordinances, to which all who enter This land are subject. Among these ordinances is a 

Five thousand dollar Land use fee, 
charged per man or woman, per day, or any part of a day, for any man or woman (hereinafter, "Lessee") entering upon This land without prior written license in his possession at all times while upon This land. Acceptance of all ordinances shall be evidenced by the presence of any man or woman upon This land, not in possession of said license, and shall create a constructive lease agreement, binding Lessee to the terms of all ordinances which the Owner has laid upon This land. Said fee shall be deemed due and payable in full within thirty days from first notice, and payment shall be made in silver coin, at full face value. Lessee hereby agrees that if payment of said fee becomes delinquent, that said amount shall become a lien upon all of Lessee's non-exempt property. Any property brought onto This land by Lessee is subject to impound until settlement is made in full. Other ordinances are in effect upon This land, to which all who enter are subject, unless exempted by license. A complete list of ordinances may be obtained from the Owner. Ignorance of the Law shall not be an excuse, nor shall it relieve any person from liability therefor. Notice is hereby given that any license, lease, or right of usage may be revoked with five minutes notice. Revocations shall not relieve anyone from liabilities already incurred. Verbal invitees given five minutes grace as to fee only. 



Notice to agents of government: 
By entering This land you accept all of the above stated terms in full. Additionally, you affirm both individually, and in your official capacity, under penalty of perjury, under the laws of these united States of America (Title 28 U.S.C. Sec. 1746), that you will support the Constitution for these united States of America and the Constitution for This republic, and all the laws promulgated thereunder in conformance with the above named Constitutions, and will extend and protect the unalienable rights secured therein to the Owner, and those under His protection, and will faithfully perform all the duties of your office as it relates to Them, in compliance with the above Constitutions to which you acknowledge that you have already taken an Oath to perform said acts and actions to the best of your ability. Violations of the rights of the Owner, or those under His protection, shall be assessed a civil penalty of one million dollars in silver coin for each violation. Damages may also be prosecuted under Title 18 U.S.C. Sec. 1621 and Sec. 241, and Title 42 U.S.C. Sections 1986, 1985, and 1983, resulting in up to ten years in prison, and additional civil penalties. 
The Owner may be contacted by sending correspondence to the following location: *Bragg Place*

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## WildGoth

hey we are all horaders here he who horades don't say

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## Excalibur

well that rules out visiting

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## canid

some people don't like unannounced visitors.

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## Alpine_Sapper

> Available from The Lawful Path website, a handy No Trespass sign. 
> 
> http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/notres.shtml


Very pretty and well written. Now, if you're inside the U.S., and the U.S. Government is coming to take something from you, what's to stop them from pulling a Waco-style stunt like the Texas Toastmasters did? 

Commander: "Give the order to Open Fire!"

Subordinate: "But sir, he has a sign! It's unlawful for us to be on his land unless we pay."

Commander: "I said, G-I-V-E T-H-E O-R-D-E-R T-O "Open Fire"!"

Subordinate: "I'm sorry sir, but according to Title 18 U.S.C. Sec. 1621 and Sec. 241, and Title 42 U.S.C. Sections 1986, 1985, and 1983 he's within his rights."

*rip*  
*bang bang*

As the smell of cordite wafts over the remaining troops:

Commander: "Did anyone else happen to notice any other signs posted?"

Subordinates: "NO SIR!"

commander: "You, come here. You just got a field promotion due to supervisor casualty. Now, GIVE THE F*C*IN* ORDER TO OPEN FIRE!"

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## Rick

On the other side of that coin....If I start shooting at law enforcement I can sort of EXPECT them to start shooting back. No really big surprise there. Shouldn't have been a big surprise to them either.

Any law enforcement individual, city, state or federal, is just another person with a family and bills and plans for the week-end. They aren't some boot jacked, faceless warrior hell bent on killing every law abiding citizen. Think what you want but the Wacko crap and Ruby Ridge scenarios don't happen if you abide by the law. I've collected guns and hunted almost all my life and I've never had anyone kick down my door. I haven't run into too many cops that were less than professional. One or two here and there but we all have a bad day and some folks are just azzes no matter what. I'll bet most on here can say the same thing.

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## beerrunner13

Randy Weaver was set up by the Feds and targeted for his racial beliefs, if you don't think so why is he not still in jail?  The Feds saw him as a threat and decided he had to go. it only cost him his wife and son.

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## Rick

As I said, believe what you want. He sold sawed off shotguns to an undercover agent and then failed to appear in court. As I said, abide by the law and....

I worked with a guy that sold sawed off shotguns to an undercover agent as well. He served one year and one day in a federal prison.

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## beerrunner13

That is not quit true Rick, he cut the barrel down for someone that brought it to him, he told that officer he could not get him one.  They were after him and that was what they came up with.

But I can see why someone would shoot a woman holding a baby and a teenage boy in the back over that.

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## Rick

I'm not going to argue with you over it. I wasn't there so I have no way of knowing what went down or why. I can only go by what the media reported. I know of no one in over 50 years that wound up on the wrong side of the law that didn't, in some way, deserve it. That includes a relative or two.

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## beerrunner13

I see your point if the main stream media reported it, it must be true.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSNCgOJCI8

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## BlackDog

> Black Dog - Eminent Domain was not outlawed. The Supreme Court made a ruling that simply defined when it could be use and for what purposes. Land can still be taken for public works
> 
> http://www.ncsl.org/programs/natres/emindomainleg06.htm


Thanks for the correction. However, we did make it more difficult to seize property here. I heard on the radio, either Steve Gill or Hannity I'm pretty sure, an interview with a woman who made the distinction between a Democracy (which would be a National governing body) and a Republic (multiple self-governing bodies). I could be way off, because I've only studied the bare minimum regarding politics and government. If I didn't misunderstand, she said we were founded on the idea of the USA being a Republic, a country of states with the right to choose under which State's government you want to live under, which makes sense with the name United States. I'm losing faith that there is a chance this will once again be the way this country will be now that every state is so reliant on Federal government funding.

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## A.Huxley

A lot of the Kennedy EOs referenced by BRAGG were revoked by EO 11490 (Nixon), which was revoked by EO 12656 (Reagan), but the intent remained unchanged: the Feds can use whatever resources they want - including your forced labor - in times of emergency or crisis. Luckily for the Feds, they also get to decide what constitutes an "emergency".

And Rick, read up on Crystal City, Texas if you think that Japanese Americans were the only ones rounded up during WWII.  Americans with German, Italian, and Mexican heritage were interned there for up to 6 years!  Just because you can't be easily identified by your eyes, doesn't mean your rights are protected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRfSHgdh2UA
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o.../WW/quwby.html
http://www.tpr.org/news/2009/01/news0901141.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal...nternment_Camp

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## crashdive123

A. Huxley - How about reading up on the Introduction section and let us know a bit about yourself.  Thanks.

*Edit:  BTW - Bragg was revoked by an executive order issued by Sarge.*

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## Tony uk

> A. Huxley - How about reading up on the Introduction section and let us know a bit about yourself.  Thanks.
> 
> *Edit:  BTW - Bragg was revoked by an executive order issued by Sarge.*


Crash, master of taking something really simple, and turning it into something really complicated  :pirate:

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## EastCoast

It has always been my experience that FEMA operates under (NIMS) National Incident Management System. Which operates from the bottom up. Not from the top down. As an inCident grows,or more incidents occur. NIMS allows State Governors to request FEMA and other Federal Agencies, assistance when conditions get too large for their control or jurisdictions. The (ICS) Incident Command System, allows for local,and State resources to work together, in the same manner, to share resources,to handle varied,types and scaled, emergency situations. Again ICS works from the bottom up. One of the main reasons that New Orleans and adjacent States had such a problem with FEMA was that the offical proper requests were not made in a timely manner. This is still not a valid excuse since FEMA understands the kind and extensive type of emergency incidents requiring their service,and should have been ready.Most of the problems occured because of a difficulty of local first responders to be able to actuate. The Coast Guard however, was on scene before, during and after, and responded outstandingly.

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## trax

All this sounds way too much like "We're from the government;we're here to help" for me.

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## Scoobywan

As a personal opinion, if the government wants anything you've got, or has a reason to think you've done something wrong, they can do what they want.  If you're hoarding a bunch of food, have a couple of guns, and have survival handbooks, they'll just say you're being arrested on of suspicion of terrorism.  After 9/11 with the patriot act stuff, our rights can be thrown away for whatever reason.  Once again, just my opinion, take it or leave it  :Smile:

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## trax

> After 9/11 with the patriot act stuff, our rights can be thrown away for whatever reason.  Once again, just my opinion, take it or leave it


Well I for one think that the opinion of a Jedi ghost-hunting dog should be given very serious consideration. What better qualifications than that? Right on Scooby!

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## Rick

Huxley - Good links. Thanks.

Raught Row. 
What's the matter, Scooby? Do the men in black scare you?
Uhuh. But only Agent K. Agent J is funny.

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## Scoobywan

Those men in black scare the crap out of me... with those flashy pens... I could end up with a brain tumor or something :P

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## old soldier

he should have stored wheat as we all know today that the flour wouldn't have stored long term that way. everything else looked good

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