# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > General Homesteading >  Why Don't LADIES want to move to the remote WILDERNESS........???????

## Sourdough

I have been a member of this forum for a fair amount of time. It seems like there is ALWAYS one or two hot threads running that involve males wanting to move to the Wilderness, and be as self-sufficient as possible. WHY is this a Male thing and Why is it not a Female thing......????

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## hunter63

That's any easy one......men have a wonder lust...women are more concerned with protection and well being of family, children and life in general.
There are exceptions of course.......
Takes both to create a balance.
JMHO....LOL

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## LFM

My wife would tell you. Outhouse vs a warm place to s**t.

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## Wildthang

I think men still have a remnant of their primative hunter genes left in tact, and most women have lost them. In the early cave years of humanity, it was the men who left the cave and stayed gone for days if necessary to make a kill, so they were more accustomed to a more nomadic, wilderness type lifestyle.
The cave women stayed at the cave site, took care of the kids, and more or less nested in one spot. So it stands to reason that we would still be more adaptable to living in the wilderness on a permenant basis.
Plus, women are just smarter and know not to leave a good environment when they already have one :Scared:

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## hunter63

> .........
> Plus, women are just smarter and know not to leave a good environment when they already have one


I don't think that is true.....They just think different.....

I often hear discussions between DW and the staff at the nursing home her mother is in right now....and feel the need to interject, till I realize that they, female, are actually on the same plain.......so it's more useful just to keep my mouth shut.....and thing work out.

Look a it this way, 2 females putting 30 un-related facts and opinions in their own hat, stirring with a stick, and some how a conclusion appears......
Smarter, no, just different.........LOL

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## BENESSE

I've got wonderlust...but not a grudge against society. My dealing with "issues" is not to run away from them.

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## Psalm25

Easy answer... there is no mall in the wilderness  :W00t: 

Joking aside I think women are a lot more social then a lot of men. I could go months without speaking to anyone and not even realize it has been that long. I have many friends and enjoy doing guy talk, but I have no problem being secluded from people ether. Most women are always gabbing with each other almost non stop. I don't think I have ever heard a woman say that she needs to get out in the woods to get a break from everything. Also I think women like to feel secure, they don't like the idea that there is a chance an animal could attack them. I don't think all women are like this, but a lot are. Then again, I think a lot of guys like to talk the talk but after all is said they have never spent any real time in the wilderness, they consider going to a national park for a week "ruffing it"

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## 1stimestar

> Easy answer... there is no mall in the wilderness



 :fisticuffs: 

You in twubble now!

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## 1stimestar

1.  I had wonderlust all my life until I crossed the Alaska state line in 2003.  I found my home and could feel it immidiatly.  So since I already kind of DO live in the wilderness, although not as far out as I plan once my children are raised, I have no need to run off TO the wilderness.  Besides, if I don't work and earn a living, no one else is going to do it for me.  Also, I know enough about it to know I don't have all the skills needed to be successfull.  I don't know how to repair a generator, chain saw or snow machine.  Those are the three things you really need to know how to repair if you are living "out there".  

2.  I LIKE being single.  Other then being seperated for a few years, this is the first time I have really been single since I was 17.  I'm 46.  Although I have always been independant, just knowing there is someone else there to share the work load, etc. makes life easier.  But I don't want to do that.  I'm done depending on other people even though I never relied heavily on my husband.  I recently had to "break up" with "the guy who wanted to be my boyfriend" because I really don't need nor want some night in shining armour bull**** in my life.  I have enough to keep my hands full with my own self and with my kids without adding the burden of someone else's feelings and needs. 

3.  To me, I AM being as self sustaining as possible.  I haul my own water, I empty the honeybucket (because yea, in the winter we really do appriciate a warm place to "do whatever", I often haul my own heating fuel.  I'm now able to put money into my savings so that within two years I'll be able to buy my own little cabin in the middle of the Alaskan woods.  And I will have a wood stove again, finally.  So then I will find someone to teach me how to fix chainsaws.  I know how to operate one as I have heated with wood most of my adult life, but I don't know how to maintain them as that is something my husband always did.  

Yes, we are out there, but specifically speaking, not looking to add someone else's issues to our own.

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## Yves

Ok, so approach a girl with her iPhone at the mall and tell her this: "Say!  Why not abandon all of this luxury and brave your life in the wilderness of Alaska building a homestead and trying to survive!"

Few will drop that iPhone and run at the opportunity  :Smile:  .  In general, women tend to be risk-averse when that risk could me serious bodily harm or death.

And yes, survival is dangerous, same reason why so few women take up jobs where they could lose their lives.

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## Wildthang

> Ok, so approach a girl with her iPhone at the mall and tell her this: "Say!  Why not abandon all of this luxury and brave your life in the wilderness of Alaska building a homestead and trying to survive!"
> 
> Few will drop that iPhone and run at the opportunity  .  In general, women tend to be risk-averse when that risk could me serious bodily harm or death.
> 
> And yes, survival is dangerous, same reason why so few women take up jobs where they could lose their lives.


Yeah the girls describe roughing it as a night in a Grand Plaza executive suite! I took them camping a couple of times and they are like fish out of water!

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## 1stimestar

> Ok, so approach a girl with her iPhone at the mall and tell her this: "Say!  Why not abandon all of this luxury and brave your life in the wilderness of Alaska building a homestead and trying to survive!"
> 
> Few will drop that iPhone and run at the opportunity  .  In general, women tend to be risk-averse when that risk could me serious bodily harm or death.
> 
> And yes, survival is dangerous, same reason why so few women take up jobs where they could lose their lives.


Really, if you walk up to a girl with an iPhone in a mall and say "Hey want to go live in the lap of luxury with me?" do you think they would jump at the chance?  Really?  With a stranger?  Your scenario has nothing to do with luxury vs. wilderness living.  But obviously does have a lot to do with survival.  Going off with a stranger who approaches you in a mall, for whatever reason would be idiotic.  We're not stupid.

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## 1stimestar

> Yeah the girls describe roughing it as a night in a Grand Plaza executive suite! I took them camping a couple of times and they are like fish out of water!


You guys are hangin out with the wrong girls.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   Really, if you are hanging out at malls and grand plazas, what type of women do you EXPECT to meet there?

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## intothenew

Most females mature faster than males. And with that maturity they not only see, but actually comprehend, the immaturity of those around them. A head start on the consequences of Darwinism you might say.


Females do not put quite the emphasis on the Alpha mentality. If/when they "do it", they don't feel quite as compelled to broadcast it.


Society has always, but now more than ever, created a hierarchy. How did it feel to be the last picked? How did it feel to have a hole in your shoe? How did it feel to not have a date for the prom? How does it feel to not have an Aeropostale shirt? How does it feel to have a low SAT score? How does it feel to be the only one without a cell phone? How does it feel to not have a Dad?

A young man, depleted of the latter and experiencing the former, is going to have a bitter taste of "society".

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## Yves

> Really, if you walk up to a girl with an iPhone in a mall and say "Hey want to go live in the lap of luxury with me?" do you think they would jump at the chance?  Really?  With a stranger?  Your scenario has nothing to do with luxury vs. wilderness living.  But obviously does have a lot to do with survival.  Going off with a stranger who approaches you in a mall, for whatever reason would be idiotic.  We're not stupid.


It's a nice attempt at a reframe, I'll give you a shiny penny  :Smile:  .  But your post fails to address what I have written and simply veers off into a completely different direction.

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## Wildthang

> You guys are hangin out with the wrong girls.    Really, if you are hanging out at malls and grand plazas, what type of women do you EXPECT to meet there?


These girls have lived with me for 5 years. They are city girls and always will be, so when I want to get away, I go alone and just let them know where I'm going and when I think I'll be back.
They do not know or understand the desire to go to the wilderness but I like them anyway because they are very polite and considerate ladys. They love our little farm, but that is as far as it goes!

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## Psalm25

> You in twubble now!


Figured that would get someones attention  :Laugh:

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## finallyME

> I don't know how to repair a generator, chain saw or snow machine.  Those are the three things you really need to know how to repair if you are living "out there".


I can almost guarantee that ol' sourdough can repair a generator, chain saw or snow machine.  Maybe he should go over and show you.  Or you could go to his cabin in the woods and he could show you there.  :Wink: 




> I have enough to keep my hands full with my own self and with my kids without adding the burden of someone else's feelings and needs.


I don't think sourdough has feelings, so there is that.....




> I'm now able to put money into my savings so that within two years I'll be able to buy my own little cabin in the middle of the Alaskan woods.  And I will have a wood stove again, finally.  So then I will find someone to teach me how to fix chainsaws.  I know how to operate one as I have heated with wood most of my adult life, but I don't know how to maintain them as that is something my husband always did.


Sourdough already has a cabin in the Alaskan woods, with a wood stove.  And he can show you how to maintain that elusive chain saw.

I think a meeting is in order........

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## 1stimestar

> I can almost guarantee that ol' sourdough can repair a generator, chain saw or snow machine.  Maybe he should go over and show you.  Or you could go to his cabin in the woods and he could show you there. 
> 
> 
> I don't think sourdough has feelings, so there is that.....
> 
> 
> Sourdough already has a cabin in the Alaskan woods, with a wood stove.  And he can show you how to maintain that elusive chain saw.
> 
> I think a meeting is in order........


Lol as much as I love Sourdough, no meetings are in the plans.

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## BENESSE

I can relate to needing to get away to some remote place to chill and recharge your batteries. I couldn't keep sane if I didn't do that a few times a year. Even fantasized about a log cabin in Wyoming or Utah, a shack on some underdeveloped Caribbean island or a cave dwelling in Santorini. But common sense ultimately prevails. Too many things left to do and see in the world, not enough dough to do it all. I suppose if I had a burning desire to live that one dream at the expense of everything else, I'd go for it. I've done it once by moving here 24 yrs ago, I can do it again. 

As far as the OP goes, my sense is, at least from the guy newbies who posted here, that they wanted to get away from society and into the wilderness where they wouldn't be accountable in any way and could live off the fat of the land (usually not their own). I was willing to bet that they felt marginalized, ill at ease and didn't have many friends, nor a strong male figure in their lives, (if one at all). Probably didn't play sports, didn't do well in school or have a girlfriend. Didn't feel understood by anyone, didn't feel like they fit anywhere. But yet, had to function on _their_ terms.
Two ways to escape that predicament: _literally_ and with least amount of effort would be running off to the wilderness to be alone and away from those you hate.  Or, work hard (school, job, whatever) and gain independence so you can be your own master. _Show_ them vs. running away from them.
Women may have similar feelings but they deal with them differently and running away to the wilderness hardly ever makes the list because they don't feel that such a drastic action is required. They are more adaptable, more deliberate in their goals IMO.

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## hunter63

Yeah and more sneaky, vindictive, and ruthless...........Or so I have been told....LOL

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## BENESSE

> Yeah and more sneaky, vindictive, and ruthless...........Or so I have been told....LOL


Only if you ax for it.

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## Psalm25

> I can relate to needing to get away to some remote place to chill and recharge your batteries. I couldn't keep sane if I didn't do that a few times a year. Even fantasized about a log cabin in Wyoming or Utah, a shack on some underdeveloped Caribbean island or a cave dwelling in Santorini. But common sense ultimately prevails. Too many things left to do and see in the world, not enough dough to do it all. I suppose if I had a burning desire to live that one dream at the expense of everything else, I'd go for it. I've done it once by moving here 24 yrs ago, I can do it again. 
> 
> As far as the OP goes, my sense is, at least from the guy newbies who posted here, that they wanted to get away from society and into the wilderness where they wouldn't be accountable in any way and could live off the fat of the land (usually not their own). I was willing to bet that they felt marginalized, ill at ease and didn't have many friends, nor a strong male figure in their lives, (if one at all). Probably didn't play sports, didn't do well in school or have a girlfriend. Didn't feel understood by anyone, didn't feel like they fit anywhere. But yet, had to function on _their_ terms.
> Two ways to escape that predicament: _literally_ and with least amount of effort would be running off to the wilderness to be alone and away from those you hate.  Or, work hard (school, job, whatever) and gain independence so you can be your own master. _Show_ them vs. running away from them.
> Women may have similar feelings but they deal with them differently and running away to the wilderness hardly ever makes the list because they don't feel that such a drastic action is required. They are more adaptable, more deliberate in their goals IMO.


 :clap:  That is one of the funniest things I have ever seen when it comes to stereo-type! However your kind of far off on that one. I have many friends and know many people who love paleo. It's not a matter of being all the things you mentioned, I have and always have had a father although he is to elderly now to do the outdoor activities we use to do... but that makes him no less of a male figure as he was when I was a child. I have never had an issue with sports, I still have many trophies in storage. I never had an issue with girls, I now have a beautiful wife and 3 children. I have made more money since I got out of school than a lot of average working people make in a life time. I choose to "get away" to the wilderness because I can afford to, and because I never want to become what I see every day... a bunch of suit and tie zombies who's lives revolve around who has the biggest house or the best looking car. Most of them travel each year to the Caribbean or Hawaii and spend a small fortune. I have more fun just going to a remote lake in the wilderness and catching some fish. I enjoy the simple life, living on a hobby farm because I don't want to live in a city locked up in a roach infested apartment sitting on the internet to pass time each day. I want fresh air, I want to be outside. I don't want to live in the suburbs where mowing the lawn is the outdoor highlight of the week. I don't want a big fancy house where there is so much room you don't even know where your kids are half the time. And I do look forward to retire when my kids are grown up and move out so my wife and I can live in a remote lake side cabin, where I can enjoy living off the land because I want to, not because I have to. Take the above as a story made up by some guy who has no friends or father figure and is trying desperately to fit in somewhere in life, or take it as the truth, it is no concern to me. I am off work for a few weeks and killing some time. I'm not trying to make friends or impress anyone here in computer land, I'm just enjoying some wilderness talk on a wilderness survival forum.

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## BENESSE

Hey, good for you P25, however, you don't fit the profile of the type I was describing.




> As far as the OP goes,* my sense is, at least from the guy newbies who  posted here,* that they wanted to get away from society and into the  wilderness where they wouldn't be accountable in any way and could live  off the fat of the land (usually not their own).


And for what it's worth, they pretty much spelled out why they wanted to run off and most of us took issue with that: running away from society and squatting on someone else's land, for starters.
I'm not talking about someone who likes to hunt, fish, and spend time outdoors communing with nature every chance he has. Not talking about people who already live that way and make a living at that. (like so many of our members) Not talking about Hunter63 who's got "The Place" or 1stimester who has children, a home, a job and a life filled with purpose and friends, or Payne, who is not running away _from_ anything but simply enjoying the adventures of the great outdoors.

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## Psalm25

Sorry about that B, I thought it was directed at me being one of the "newbie guys"  :Sad:  I understand what your saying now

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## Cement Blonde

I suppose woman don't chuck it all and move to "the wilderness" because woman rarely want to move "backwards". If a woman moves to a cabin, she'll want a roof. After that she'll want running water. It's biological for a woman to make a "nest".

And besides, if a married woman was to "leave it all" with her husband and make a life in the wilderness, what would happen to her as she ages?

I understand that woman out live men by over 10 years and there's no way I be left to fend for myself, physically and mentally, alone.

I can't see myself hauling wood, stoking fires and hunting my own food at 70.

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## crashdive123

I think B's assessment is pretty spot on.  I'll add - they get so PO'd when they are not spoon fed the answer that they want (not need) because they are taught that there are no losers - only winners.  They grow up with not only a sense of entitlement, but must have instant gratification - they are taught the deserve it.

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## Renatus

deleted....

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## Stiffy

Like some of you have already said, it's partly a social thing.  My wife loves to talk to people.  I don't.  She can bump into a (female) stranger in the bread section and, because they are both gluten sensitive, they can chat for ten or fifteen minutes like they're best friends while I "patiently" stand off to the side hoping that someone I know doesn't come along, because then I would have to avoid eye contact in the hope that they'll just keep moving on.   I sure that some women are not like that, but I suspect that more are than are not.  And for those who are, isolated wilderness living is about as appealing as sailing solo around the world without Skype.

Also, men don't have to squat to pee.


Added in edit:

And my wife doesn't like being cold, which rules out northern latitude wilderness living.
And my wife doesn't like bugs, which rules out southern latitude wilderness living.

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## nell67

> I have been a member of this forum for a fair amount of time. It seems like there is ALWAYS one or two hot threads running that involve males wanting to move to the Wilderness, and be as self-sufficient as possible. WHY is this a Male thing and Why is it not a Female thing......????


Caveman syndrome,he must go out and conquer the wilderness,make ready the cave,then go back and kidnap his bride and drag her by the hair into his lair.....

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## Psalm25

I think it all comes down to what Stiffy said. Men and women who are social butterflies are not likely going to want solitude. They gather together with friends every weekend and look forward to it all week. But couples who now have a family and have grown out of the party on the weekend stage tend to spend their Friday nights reading books together. Saturdays are a little more crazy spirited when they take the kids on a hiking trip then have Grandma and Grampa over for a game of Monopoly. Couples who love nature and spend all their free time with each other and their kids are likely the ones who would have no problem buying lakeside property off the grid and building a log cabin home to live in. They hire a bush plane to take them back and fourth once or twice a year to visit friends and family, but for the most part they home school their children and simply enjoy being a family. I personally don't think it is in the childrens best interest to live in solitude as it will affect them socially in the future, but to each their own. I do feel that a husband and wife have everything they need in the same scenario once the children are old enough to move out. Living together in solitude does not mean your cut off from the world all together if you don't want to be and it does not mean you can not return to visit from time to time or have loved ones visit you. I know of a few people couples who do this... you don't hear about it often because the people who choose that way of living are not on computers chatting about it in forums for the most part. I think it is as hard to find a man who would want to live in the wilderness as it would be to find a woman... just most women are down to earth and don't play around with the idea. A lot of men like to play around with the idea so we tend to hear men talk about it more, but after all is said and done they are just playing with the idea of it.

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## Sourdough

Psalm25;

Love your signature line........

"If you're seeking to survive in the wilderness then good gear will get you to the last 10%. Training and practice are needed for the 90%."

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## Psalm25

:Thumbup1:

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## cowgirlup

I think for most people, men or women, by the time you realize you'd like that kind of life it might be too late.  You're already saddled with debt and responsibilities and you know you won't be able to afford it.

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## Wildthang

I discussed that with the girls one time, and we all came to the conclusion that for thousands of years, mankind has tried to better himself, and get away from having to live like animals out in the woods, with no medical services, and work tooth and nail every day to eek out an existance. So why would anybody in their right mind, want to go back to that? It is good to know how to survive in the wilderness, but not our choice of where we want to live.
I look at my skills as a prep, not a way of life!

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## cowgirlup

> I discussed that with the girls one time, and we all came to the conclusion that for thousands of years, mankind has tried to better himself, and get away from having to live like animals out in the woods, with no medical services, *and work tooth and nail every day to eek out an existance*. So why would anybody in their right mind, want to go back to that? It is good to know how to survive in the wilderness, but not our choice of where we want to live.
> I look at my skills as a prep, not a way of life!


We're already working  like slaves to exist.  At least you can be your own master. And with all the cool off grid stuff that's out there you won't have to live like an animal unless you want to.  :Smile:

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## Psalm25

> We're already working  like slaves to exist.  At least you can be your own master. And with all the cool off grid stuff that's out there you won't have to live like an animal unless you want to.


Exactly! And if you work half your life and save all your money and buy some cheep land off the grid you no longer have to spend money, it stays in the bank. You can also make a little money trapping. If the day comes that you feel your too old to do it anymore, you can go back and retire off the money you had saved half your life that is sitting in the bank.

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## BENESSE

I'll offer an alternate POV, just for $hitz and giggles.

I may work _like_ a slave (by choice) but it's at something I love to do. Loving what you do _and_ getting paid for it, would, in most people's minds be the ultimate goal. 
Whether you work like a slave in the wilderness (and believe me, you do--just ask SD & WildWoman) or in the urban jungle, the important thing is that you love it, and that the rewards (whatever they happen to be for you personally) far outweigh the drawbacks which exist anywhere.

If you hate what you do and yearn for something else, get a plan and get out and do it ASAP. It's never too late to get a crack at your dream.

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## hunter63

> Exactly! And if you work half your life and save all your money and buy some cheep land off the grid you no longer have to spend money, it stays in the bank. You can also make a little money trapping. If the day comes that you feel your too old to do it anymore, you can go back and retire off the money you had saved half your life that is sitting in the bank.


Well good luck with that......Nothing is cheap.....if anything wilderness is more expensive just because of logistics.

Any trappers out there that "do it for the money?"....or because it is an option to keep ones head above water, or just love.

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## Psalm25

I like that POV B. It all comes down to working hard and living the life that makes us happy as individuals.

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## Psalm25

> Well good luck with that......Nothing is cheap.....if anything wilderness is more expensive just because of logistics.
> 
> Any trappers out there that "do it for the money?"....or because it is an option to keep ones head above water, or just love.


You don't pay rent or mortgage, food, hydro, gas, insurance... trapping will make a few extra bucks to play with since your going to be trapping and hunting for food anyway. The money sits in the bank and collects interest wile you live bill free. Its like when I was working in Alberta in the oil fields, your lodging and food is all paid for and there are no stores to spend your money. I was making insane money and not spending any of it. If someone works hard and makes good money at a job that supplies all your necessities then you can make enough money to live in the wilderness if you choose to and come back to a bank full of money to retire with. I agree for people who make min wage and buy things they don't need it is much harder. Or you can simply keep working hard and not spending your money on stuff you don't need, then you can retire at an early age instead of waiting until your too old to enjoy it. However one looks at it and whatever one decides to do, living in the wilderness or not... anything can be done if your not a lazy person.

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## Sarge47

Women don't want to live in Alaska because they don't want to get splinters in thier tush using a doorless outhouse with a wood seat!       :W00t:

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## Psalm25

Keep in mind too the land you buy to live on with the cabin you work on over the years can be sold for more money than you paid for it when you decide to come back and retire.

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## Sourdough

> Women don't want to live in Alaska because they don't want to get splinters in thier tush using a doorless outhouse with a wood seat!



I now have a Toilet......Now I need a Lady. OK, so the toilet for now is flushed with creek water, but it does have a certified toilet seat.

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## Solar Geek

"Exactly! And if you work half your life and save all your money and buy some cheep land off the grid you no longer have to spend money, it stays in the bank. You can also make a little money trapping. If the day comes that you feel your too old to do it anymore, you can go back and retire off the money you had saved half your life that is sitting in the bank."

Ok but you still have to pay taxes!  And no matter where you go, unless it is truly the Alaskan wilderness, taxes rise with EVERY improvement, your well, your barn/cabin/home, your driveway!  We had to factor in taxes on our land with all upgrades and then back figure when DH could retire. And on top of that, you must factor in cost of living with feed for animals/chickens (in addition to what they eat free range), med. costs as we age, food we really can't raise ourselves (no bananas or oranges or citrus grown in WI). 

Not saying our costs will be low, but our taxes on our property (20 minutes from the middle of nowhere but fairly large acreage without any improvements until we built) are and will continue to be about 1/6th of our income/pension/SS - whatever we are pulling at that time. And that is high. We know it and planned for it and continue to do so.

Just saying.

However, I am a woman and I picked this land in the middle of nowhere for us. Had to convince DH. Now, he loves it. But we do have toilets and hot water :Smile:

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## hunter63

> You don't pay rent or mortgage, food, hydro, gas, insurance... trapping will make a few extra bucks to play with since your going to be trapping and hunting for food anyway. The money sits in the bank and collects interest wile you live bill free. Its like when I was working in Alberta in the oil fields, your lodging and food is all paid for and there are no stores to spend your money. I was making insane money and not spending any of it. If someone works hard and makes good money at a job that supplies all your necessities then you can make enough money to live in the wilderness if you choose to and come back to a bank full of money to retire with. I agree for people who make min wage and buy things they don't need it is much harder. Or you can simply keep working hard and not spending your money on stuff you don't need, then you can retire at an early age instead of waiting until your too old to enjoy it. However one looks at it and whatever one decides to do, living in the wilderness or not... anything can be done if your not a lazy person.


Well, I guess you just have to give it a go...if that is your desire.......I'm thinking that this is all wishful thinking.
DW and I have had the dream for a long time, and is part of retirement.......Kinda there now, but with some conditions.....

Bought land, paid for it, bought more land, paid for that, used it, had fun with it, built cabin, paid for it.....all the while learning and dealing with all the little nit pickey things as permits, locals, contractors, ulitilities, break-ins, good times and bad.

It can be done, and should be done young....gets harder to keep up when stuff hurts..........
Good news, nursing home in town take everybody that can move to lunch at the saloon, on Wednesdays....

It is tougher than you might think......So like I said....Good luck with that.

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## Stiffy

> I discussed that with the girls one time, and we all came to the conclusion that for thousands of years, mankind has tried to better himself, and get away from having to live like animals out in the woods, with no medical services, and work tooth and nail every day to eek out an existance. So why would anybody in their right mind, want to go back to that? It is good to know how to survive in the wilderness, but not our choice of where we want to live.
> I look at my skills as a prep, not a way of life!


Ditto.  And not just as a prep, but also as an enjoyable hobby.

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## Psalm25

> "Exactly! And if you work half your life and save all your money and buy some cheep land off the grid you no longer have to spend money, it stays in the bank. You can also make a little money trapping. If the day comes that you feel your too old to do it anymore, you can go back and retire off the money you had saved half your life that is sitting in the bank."
> 
> Ok but you still have to pay taxes!  And no matter where you go, unless it is truly the Alaskan wilderness, taxes rise with EVERY improvement, your well, your barn/cabin/home, your driveway!  We had to factor in taxes on our land with all upgrades and then back figure when DH could retire. And on top of that, you must factor in cost of living with feed for animals/chickens (in addition to what they eat free range), med. costs as we age, food we really can't raise ourselves (no bananas or oranges or citrus grown in WI). 
> 
> 
> *What the H*** would you need a driveway for in the wilderness??? LOL! No one is going to fly out in a bush plane to evaluate what your doing to raise your taxes a couple dollars each year. Besides, water comes from springs, not a dug out well. Besides, everything you described I already have. I own a farm, many animals, lots of land, a driveway, and everything else to go with it. Why do you see that as impossible? thousands of people in Canada live on farms LOL. As far as taxes, you not going to pay very much taxes on property in the middle of no where. And even if you calculate it at $1000 a year (way more than it would be) that is only $20 grand in 20 years or so... most people have that in their bank account. Besides, if I sold my farm which obviously I would if we moved to a lakeside cabin, I would have over $200 grand in the bank right there, not to mention all my savings.* 
> 
> Not saying our costs will be low, but our taxes on our property (20 minutes from the middle of nowhere but fairly large acreage without any improvements until we built) are and will continue to be about 1/6th of our income/pension/SS - whatever we are pulling at that time. And that is high. We know it and planned for it and continue to do so.
> 
> ...


*
Not trying to sound sarcastic with the above, but living off the grid in the wilderness is not living outside of town on a dirt road.* 




> Well, I guess you just have to give it a go...if that is your desire.......I'm thinking that this is all wishful thinking.
> DW and I have had the dream for a long time, and is part of retirement.......Kinda there now, but with some conditions.....
> 
> Bought land, paid for it, bought more land, paid for that, used it, had fun with it, built cabin, paid for it.....all the while learning and dealing with all the little nit pickey things as permits, locals, contractors, ulitilities, break-ins, good times and bad.
> 
> It can be done, and should be done young....gets harder to keep up when stuff hurts..........
> Good news, nursing home in town take everybody that can move to lunch at the saloon, on Wednesdays....
> 
> It is tougher than you might think......So like I said....Good luck with that.


*Getting at it as soon as the kids move out hunter63... and if it turns out to not work out, nothing lost. Money is still in the bank and there is always a house for sale to be found. The money will always be in the bank. I do know how tuff it is though, I have lived in the bush for a short time before when I finished school, I took a year off to live at my grandfathers cabin for fun before I entered the work world. It is where I got the idea to live lakeside off the grid, it is how he lived. As I had said, I know people who do it* 

*Keep in mind too, I already have the same set up your talking about now. When your off grid, and I mean wayyyy off grid, not just an hour or so out of town then there are no permits, locals, B&E's, contractors, utilities, and so on. No one is going to rent a bush plane to steel your oil lantern or fishing rod.*

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## hunter63

I sincerely wish you the best.....just don't wait too long.....Like i said it gets tougher, the older you get.

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## Psalm25

^Kind of getting off topic though. So best I can say is google remote Canadian villages that have no roads to them and can only be reached by bush plane. They are out there, and population can be counted on fingers. There is no hydro or anything a lot of people here seem to think is needed to survive. There are women who live in those places, and far off from those villages are families who live miles away from anyone. Your not going to find these people on internet forums, but that does not mean they are not out there, and plenty of them.

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## hunter63

My only female concern(request/demand?) was running water and a flush toilet.
Check, and check.

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## Psalm25

> I sincerely wish you the best.....just don't wait too long.....Like i said it gets tougher, the older you get.


My hope is with luck at least one of my kids will want to join us. Two of our kids have their career's all figured out so I know they will not... but my one son can not get enough of the outdoors, it would be nice to have him there with us. There are friends to who roll the idea around of joining us... but I think the shtf would have to happen for them to actually come. Thank you for the best wishes Hunter63.

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## Psalm25

> My only female concern(request/demand?) was running water and a flush toilet.
> Check, and check.


Man, you got off easy Hunter63 if that was the only demand lol... I imagine I will have to have a big 'ol kitchen of sorts set up and some kind of laundry room

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## Psalm25

Not yet sure how I am going to avoid the running water demand... maybe trade it off for a sewing room lol. She should be happy if I at least set up a solar shower and a bucket bath for the winter... should be or will be... time will tell lol

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## Canuckette

> I have been a member of this forum for a fair amount of time. It seems like there is ALWAYS one or two hot threads running that involve males wanting to move to the Wilderness, and be as self-sufficient as possible. WHY is this a Male thing and Why is it not a Female thing......????


If I could meet a nice guy with some wilderness land and a dog, I would move in if I felt we could get along. I would love to have my own place in the woods, but I can't afford to buy land. So you see, we're out there.

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## Sarge47

> If I could meet a nice guy with some wilderness land and a dog, I would move in if I felt we could get along. I would love to have my own place in the woods, but I can't afford to buy land. So you see, we're out there.


So, have you met Sourdough?  He's my age and not filthy rich, just filthy, but he's got property!     :Devil: 

p.s.:  I'm pushing 66, so now you know how old SD is!       :Wacko:

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## Wildthang

> So, have you met Sourdough?  He's my age and not filthy rich, just filthy, but he's got property!    
> 
> p.s.:  I'm pushing 66, so now you know how old SD is!


Sounds like Sourgough better get a door on the outhouse :Smartass:

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## crashdive123

And ruin the view?

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## BENESSE

> And ruin the view?


He might have to decide between a view from the doorless outhouse or a view inside his cabin.  :Innocent:

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## 1stimestar

> ^Kind of getting off topic though. So best I can say is google remote Canadian villages that have no roads to them and can only be reached by bush plane. They are out there, and population can be counted on fingers. There is no hydro or anything a lot of people here seem to think is needed to survive. There are women who live in those places, and far off from those villages are families who live miles away from anyone. Your not going to find these people on internet forums, but that does not mean they are not out there, and plenty of them.


Heh, sometimes they do.  Here is my friends Wayne and Scarlett's website.  They live in the bush.  
http://www.bushalaskaexpeditions.com/index.html

Here is a few of my stories about visiting their place, the last 3 years
.  
http://cloud9doula.wordpress.com/201...owl-adventure/

http://cloud9doula.wordpress.com/201...dventure-2011/

http://cloud9doula.wordpress.com/201...dventure-2012/




> If I could meet a nice guy with some wilderness land and a dog, I would move in if I felt we could get along. I would love to have my own place in the woods, but I can't afford to buy land. So you see, we're out there.


Yay.




> And ruin the view?


You can have a door and still have a view.  See? 

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## akkayla

im a female i would love to move to the  remote wilderness i have axeity and the woods only place my axeity is calm

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## Sarge47

> im a female i would love to move to the  remote wilderness i have axeity and the woods only place my axeity is calm


Have you met Sourdough?        :Detective:

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## Sourdough

> Have you met Sourdough?


Sourdough is "Fine specimen of a Man"  But double Butt'Ugly.

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## BENESSE

Now there's a face anyone can love!

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## finallyME

> I now have a Toilet......Now I need a Lady.


Hey, we're trying.  Can't say we aren't trying....
Well, except for sarge....he keeps trying to drive away all the business.

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