# General > General Guns & Ammo >  alternatives to 22 rimfire

## randyt

I don't know if there ever was a thread on alternatives to .22 rimfire but we have visited the subject many times in other threads on occasion.

it seems that the best alternatives to .22 rimfires require reloading. I have a couple options and have been thinking about using my .310 cadet as a alternative. For me it is a reloading proposition as I don't know anywhere to buy ammunition for this gun.

any thoughts?

here's a few links

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t=grouse+loads

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...t=grouse+loads

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...for-the-25-ACP

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ght=.22+hornet

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ght=.22+hornet

----------


## hunter63

Dang it Randy....just about the time I think you done "shot the wad" of odd ball stuff.....you slide in with another "what the heck, whatsit", that I had to go look up.....LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.310_Cadet

I gonna guess I can't go to Gander Mountain and ask," Y'all got any .310 Cadets on the shelf?"....
And the guy says "What?"
So I'm gonna sit back and see where this goes.

Actually a 110 gr bullet little big for a .22 alternate?

----------


## kyratshooter

Randy if you have dies and bullet molds for the cadet I do not know why you would not already be using it in place of .22r?

I feel that the reason for the appeal of reduced loads and substitutes for the .22r IS THE FACT THAT THEY CAN BE RELOADED!!!

Why would one wish to switch to another cartridge and still be dependent on factory rounds?

I do not like being dependent on factory ammo when it is plentiful!

And now it is twice in less than ten years that I have seen that desperate look on people's faces, on the day before the deer season opens, as they stare at the empty shelves and say, "What do you mean all you have is .270 and 7mm mag?"

If you have not stocked all types of ammo high and deep, or your primary rifle is a .22lr, one might regard SHTF as possible and present.

Additionally, the laws that rule the state wildlife management hunting areas, where I do most of my hunting, have turned me into a shotgun hunter.  The WMA rules state rimfire or shotgun only.  No centerfire rifles allowed, even with reduced loads.


After lusting after rimfire rifles for 60 years any infatuation I ever had for the .22 rimfire is gone, I am about ready to get out of the .22 rimfire business entirely.  

Anyone interested in a 10/22 with a bunch of accessories?

I need the money to buy shotgun shells.

----------


## randyt

I still have a couple 22 lr rounds put up, keeping them for my kids and grandkids to practice with. I have other options but I wonder what the non-loader is doing or has done in years past. In my research I'm not so sure how much a 22 lr was actually used. For instance V.E. Lynch a renowned trapper of his time, early 1900s used a 38 special for a trapline gun. He wasn't a reloader as far as I know.

I have dies and a rapine mold for the cadet. I would like to try a round ball and will one of these days. I need to revisit the cadet, it was back burnered several years back.

----------


## Old Professor

If I were looking for an alternative to the 22 rimfire (and I am Not!), I would look to pistol rounds, especially 38 caliber and smaller. Fairly easy to reload, assuming you can find bullets or bullet molds and powder/primers/dies.  I would choose a revolver over a semi auto, or a single shot rifle. Perhaps something about 32 caliber?

----------


## cwlongshot

What about AIR Guns?

It can be pretty addictive in its own right and MOST folks can shoot IN the house or there own yards where powder burners would NEVER be allowed...

CW

----------


## Graf

I would say a good alternative would be a pellet rifle around 1000 or more FPS that will bring in small game and ammo is readily available.

----------


## kyratshooter

Who has the face palm button?

----------


## randyt

I have a old .36 caliber percussion rifle that would make a decent alternative to a 22 lr.

I've been thinking about a air gun. I was figuring a air pistol would come in handy for shooting in the basement during inclement weather. My basement is 60 feet long. Also a friend has a Benjamin marauder that he really likes. He lives in the burbs and does well on squirrel. TBH I like something with a bit more wallop. Didn't the army dabble with using air guns for training. Quick shot, quick kill or something along those lines.

----------


## hunter63

Got a couple of air guns........117 and a .22 Benjamin...both pump up's......Good on BYB....but don't take them serious for anything over maybe 25 ft.

----------


## randyt

these ones can be taken seriously LOL

http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/

----------


## Lamewolf

My alternative is a 32 cal muzzleloader and a 22 cal Benjamin 392 air rifle.  With 20 grains of 3fg blackpowder, the 32 muzzleloader is about the same as 22 LR and with 40 grains it shoots about the same as a 22 magnum.  The air rifle kills squirrels and rabbits just as dead as a 22LR out to 25 yards.  The 32 muzzleloader has taken groundhogs out to 100 yards and squirrels and rabbits out to 50 yards.

----------


## cwlongshot

Do a lil surfing. The Brits do ALLOT with a 12 FPE air gun. We don't have that limitation so a 20/30 FPE gun can be just as effective as a LR at a lil less range. But fifty yards is disable with a 30 FPE gun on squirrels and rabbits. 

Many choices and that Benji is a good one! So are older sheridans and Crosman 140's. All did better than 600 fps with a 13/15 g pellet and that about a 20 FPE shooter!

CW

----------


## kyratshooter

Air guns are like politicians.

I have nothing against them in general but even the best of them can not justify the air they use up.

As for the British forums, there is a lot of lying and staging photos that goes on over there, since airguns are all they have.  They will wound 100 bunnies to get a single kill they can photo.  

If you want to talk about airguns please start an airgun thread so I can ignore it.

----------


## hunter63

> My alternative is a 32 cal muzzleloader and a 22 cal Benjamin 392 air rifle.  With 20 grains of 3fg blackpowder, the 32 muzzleloader is about the same as 22 LR and with 40 grains it shoots about the same as a 22 magnum.  The air rifle kills squirrels and rabbits just as dead as a 22LR out to 25 yards.  The 32 muzzleloader has taken groundhogs out to 100 yards and squirrels and rabbits out to 50 yards.


You know....I looked and don't seem to have a .32 ML-er.....Hummm........
"Honey, gonna be needing a new .32 muzzleloader....Not my fault, no .22 yet....so what an I gonna do?"

So you think anyone will bring out a .32 In-line ML?...NOW THAT would be an idea.

----------


## Lamewolf

> You know....I looked and don't seem to have a .32 ML-er.....Hummm........
> "Honey, gonna be needing a new .32 muzzleloader....Not my fault, no .22 yet....so what an I gonna do?"
> 
> So you think anyone will bring out a .32 In-line ML?...NOW THAT would be an idea.


Mine is not an inline. its a Southern mountain rifle that I built back in the 80's and has a 42 inch Green Mountain barrel on it - I like traditional !  And boy is that baby fun to shoot !  I mold all my own round balls, and patching is bought at the piece goods store.  I also have a 40 and 45 that I built back about the same time, but the 32 is my favorite !  PS: the 32 round balls makes good buckshot for loading shotgun shells too !

----------


## hunter63

> Mine is not an inline. its a Southern mountain rifle that I built back in the 80's and has a 42 inch Green Mountain barrel on it - I like traditional !  And boy is that baby fun to shoot !  I mold all my own round balls, and patching is bought at the piece goods store.  I also have a 40 and 45 that I built back about the same time, but the 32 is my favorite !  PS: the 32 round balls makes good buckshot for loading shotgun shells too !


Actually have seen some kits lately....mostly Traditions...I think they bought out CVA.

Built........ 2-.45 cal rifles, CVA Kentucky long rifle, and a CVA .50 cal Hawken......FIL got the Kentucky, BIL got the .50 Hawken....Both  have passed. 
Also built a .45 CVA Kentucky piston, a CVA Philadelphia Derringer, Lyman's .54 cal Plains pistol, .54 cal Lyman's rifle, and a colt Navy .36 revolver.
Never did build a .32 or .36 rifle.......so I guess I NEED one....LOL

----------


## Lamewolf

> Actually have seen some kits lately....mostly Traditions...I think they bought out CVA.
> 
> Built........ 2-.45 cal rifles, CVA Kentucky long rifle, and a CVA .50 cal Hawken......FIL got the Kentucky, BIL got the .50 Hawken....Both  have passed. 
> Also built a .45 CVA Kentucky piston, a CVA Philadelphia Derringer, Lyman's .54 cal Plains pistol, .54 cal Lyman's rifle, and a colt Navy .36 revolver.
> Never did build a .32 or .36 rifle.......so I guess I NEED one....LOL


The CVA Kentucky is the first rifle I ever built and for the money it was very accurate - I gave it to a good friend when I built my scratch 45 Southern Mountain rifle.  I've built 2 of the CVA Kentucky pistols and a CVA Colt Navy in 45 cal.  But my ML rifles now all have the Siler Locks that can be swapped back and for the between flintlock or percussion just by changing the lock, drum and nipple, and touch hole liners.  Been wanting to build a 20 gauge flintlock North West trade gun but haven't figured out how to fit it in my budget.  At one time I had an antique Parker double 13 gauge muzzleloader and sold it because I was able to quadruple my money on it.  That was a fun gun to rabbit hunt with - swing, fire, duck around the smoke cloud to see the bunny roll !  :W00t:

----------


## hunter63

LOL....The old run up thru the smoke trick.....I hear ya.

To all new kit builders....Do not start with a Navy Colt revolver kit....LOL...What a PITA

You guys are gonna cost me some money.........

I was just thinking out loud on the .32 or .36 in-line....but make sense.

----------


## randyt

a man needs more than one gun

----------


## randyt

where can I ssssg buckshot, thinking it ay work well in a 22 hornet light load.

----------


## hunter63

> a man needs more than one gun


That would make a good signature..........No ship.

----------


## randyt

> That would make a good signature..........No ship.


that's what I was thinking LOL.

----------


## cwlongshot

I have always enamored the T/C Cherokee and Seneca in the smaller 30 calibers...

Shot a friends years ago and was hooked, but never bought one.

CW

----------


## kyratshooter

I am sitting here looking at a .32 Green Mountain 3/4" barrel 42" long and thinking I need to get off my butt and finish stocking it.

Got walnut stock and a small Dixie Flint lock and all the parts, I just need to turn off the computer and get to work. 

I have a reworked halfstock .32 that shoots real well so I decided to build a North Carolina mountain rifle in 32.

The .310 round ball is right at 40 grains and a 35 grain charge will get you around 1500-1800fps, so you would be right on top of .22magnum performance.

RandyT, #F buckshot is .22 caliber but I would want to run it through a .22 sizer before I used it for a hornet load.  I think they weigh out at around 19 or 20 grains.  About the same as a .22 pellet.

Yep, I have a mold that casts #F. PITA to work with.

The little .55 grain .22 bullets are just as easy to cast and easier to work with.  Pretty accurate too.

Which does bring up another thought, has anyone ever tried a .22 pellet in a Hornet case.  Two or three grains of Unique under a .22 pellet???

I think I have invented myself another project.  Wonder how they would do in a .223 case?

----------


## Lamewolf

> LOL....The old run up thru the smoke trick.....I hear ya.
> 
> To all new kit builders....Do not start with a Navy Colt revolver kit....LOL...What a PITA
> 
> You guys are gonna cost me some money.........
> 
> I was just thinking out loud on the .32 or .36 in-line....but make sense.


Hey man, a 32 inline would be great.  Especially if they made it with modern steel and was one designed to use small charges of smokeless powder like some of the big bores are now !  I forget which manufacturer makes it, but there is now a 50 caliber inline that is designed for smokeless, so a 32 should be easily doable !

----------


## kyratshooter

Why would on want to have an "inline" that required the same smokeless powder we can not get to load out cartridges with?

I can not see the sense in switching from the .22rim fire, due to a shortage of ammo, buy turning to another item that is in just as scarce supply conditions.

If you look on the wholesale powder websites and on the shelves at the gun shops you will find a severe shortage of everything except Pyrodex, 209, Triple Seven and any other BP substitute.

You can buy that stuff by the case but You can't find smokeless powder to save your life!

But "back in the day" the old settlers never hesitated to pot small game with the 40-80 caliber rifles they had on hand.  The small bore "squirrel guns" were not developed until after all the big game in the east had been shot out, and most of the "small bores" were actually 36-40 caliber in original form.

Even Jim Bridger "squib loaded" his Hawkin rifles as a regular habit. There is at least one Hawkin he owned at his death that has a fixed powder charger set at 50 grains hanging from the powder horn.  That would be a half charge for the .52 caliber rifle it is with. 

Using a modern .50 caliber and keeping the ball at a speed anywhere at or above 750fps (duplicating .45LC original loading) would kill any small game one encountered.  You are not talking about a small bore slug zipping trough the game, you are dealing with a slug that will kill through concussion if it hits *near* the game!

Half charging a modern in-line would even allow the use of patched round balls in the fast twist rifling, would be cheap to shoot, easier on the shoulder and still have good accuracy.  

I have done this using a cheap in-line I picked up a few years back.  I played around with it at the range and had good results using real BP and patched round ball, but I have never hunted with that setup in the field.

----------


## hunter63

A .32 in-line  could still use BP or Pyrodex.....I was thinking about just a simple cheap....blister pack rifle.
Got caught with out a BP rifle 2 years ago....season was still open and I had to wait on a shed getting done.....so a shopping trip to Cabalas was in order.
Traditions .50 cal w/scope advertised as everything you need except powder and primers....out the door $150 bucks
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Still can't get over the blister pack.....That ain't right.

BTW scope shot dead zero at 50 yds form the first shot.....didn't have to adjust anything.

----------


## Lamewolf

> Why would on want to have an "inline" that required the same smokeless powder we can not get to load out cartridges with?
> 
> Using a modern .50 caliber and keeping the ball at a speed anywhere at or above 750fps (duplicating .45LC original loading) would kill any small game one encountered. You are not talking about a small bore slug zipping trough the game, you are dealing with a slug that will kill through concussion if it hits near the game!


Because you could still load it with blackpowder or Pyrodex, and smokeless powder as it became available !

And been there, done that with the half charge or even lower charge on my 45 Southern Mountain rifle which sports a Bill Large barrel and is plenty accurate enough for headshots of bunnies and tree rats.

In the old 45 CVA I had, I even tried it with #6 shot charges and found it done just as well on small game as my old single shot 410 out to about 25 yards.  To do that, I poured the measured powder in the barrel, then shoved a wad of paper in on top of the powder, followed by a cup made from rolled index card with a card wad on top to hold the shot in.  It was fun on running rabbits, but only did it a few times just to try it out.

And the "killing by concussion" you speak of is called barking.  I always liked doing that when a squirrel flattens out on a wrist sized tree limb trying to hide.  Just shoot the limb right under his head and it blows him out of the tree and knocks him cold !  :Death:

----------


## Lamewolf

> Which does bring up another thought, has anyone ever tried a .22 pellet in a Hornet case.  Two or three grains of Unique under a .22 pellet???
> 
> I think I have invented myself another project.  Wonder how they would do in a .223 case?


Haven't done that, but I have and old 22 barrel that I have been thinking of turning into an underhammer muzzleloader and using 22 pellets in.  Or maybe even a rifle that uses pellets propelled by a 209 primer ?

----------


## kyratshooter

Been there, done that.

Be advised that if one cuts the .22 barrel just ahead of the chamber area they can use a standard 1/4 inch tap and thread a #11 nipple directly into the back of the barrel to make a 22 inline.

The pellet also remains engaged with the rifling rather than dropping into the empty space that was once the chamber.

----------


## hunter63

Have .38 ammo, that takes a pellet and 209 primer...came with a loading press.....
Called Pip Squeak.....
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f.../t-15042.html?

If you recognize the thread, and name....LOL....I actually did business with the guy....and was lucky

----------


## kyratshooter

> A .32 in-line  could still use BP or Pyrodex.....I was thinking about just a simple cheap....blister pack rifle.
> Got caught with out a BP rifle 2 years ago....season was still open and I had to wait on a shed getting done.....so a shopping trip to Cabalas was in order.
> Traditions .50 cal w/scope advertised as everything you need except powder and primers....out the door $150 bucks
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> Still can't get over the blister pack.....That ain't right.
> 
> BTW scope shot dead zero at 50 yds form the first shot.....didn't have to adjust anything.


Hunter, there is the possibility that one could take a cheap "blister pack" in-line and use the simple expedient of relining the barrel with a .32 barrel liner!

The Dixie Gun Works catalogue of olden days recommended this as the easiest way to restore old shot out black powder guns to use.  They even had instructions on how to *EPOXY* the new liner in the old barrel.

Track of the Wolf still sells rifled barrel liner stock by the foot.  They have everything from .22 caliber up to .50.

----------


## Rick

I'll say you got lucky. Nothing like striking a deal with the devil.

----------


## hunter63

> I'll say you got lucky. Nothing like striking a deal with the devil.


No ship....Imagine my surprise when others dealing went south.........Oh Well.

----------


## hunter63

Now that I think of it, haven't shot a squirrel in maybe 25 years.......BYB are another thing...and yeah I do use an air rifle so as to be quite......range about 10 ft max. 

Wouldn't be opposed to owning another ML though.

----------


## randyt

This thread is interesting, all kinds of good ideas. I have a little 45 grain .22 hollowpoint mold that would probably fare well as a light load.

----------


## hunter63

> Hunter, there is the possibility that one could take a cheap "blister pack" in-line and use the simple expedient of relining the barrel with a .32 barrel liner!
> 
> The Dixie Gun Works catalogue of olden days recommended this as the easiest way to restore old shot out black powder guns to use.  They even had instructions on how to *EPOXY* the new liner in the old barrel.
> 
> Track of the Wolf still sells rifled barrel liner stock by the foot.  They have everything from .22 caliber up to .50.


That would be interesting....but the breach plug would still be 50 cal.....so there may be a breach leak up against a .32 cal liner.....Hummmm

The only reason I'm bringing up the in -line is cost....would like a little 32 cal flinter....but most are over $300 and up....

I would guess that smokeless powder would also work in a .32 cal. lined .50 cal barrel if necessary.

----------


## kyratshooter

If you had the liner set back against the breech plug there would be no problem at the low pressures the BP and substitutes produce.

If you had a high pressure liner you could probably use smokeless in the small amounts you would need for a .32.  You are not talking but perhaps 3-4 grains of Unique.

But if you have 3-4 grains if Unique why are you shooting a ML rather than loading the Unique into a cartridge? 

I am still a strong proponent of using only BP or subs in ML guns.  

Savage has had enough trouble with their smokeless ML gun that I do not care for the concept.  

You can build a ML that uses smokeless but you can never insure the loader is going to be able to hold reloads to the 1/10th grain tolerances smokeless powder uses in the pressure curve.

----------


## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> Been there, done that.
> 
> Be advised that if one cuts the .22 barrel just ahead of the chamber area they can use a standard 1/4 inch tap and thread a #11 nipple directly into the back of the barrel to make a 22 inline.
> 
> The pellet also remains engaged with the rifling rather than dropping into the empty space that was once the chamber.


Would modifying a really old pump action .22 to be an inline be legal? Just dragged out an old Stevens, I have shelved and it looks pretty straight forward?

----------


## randyt

do you have a stevens visible loader?

----------


## randyt

one thing about a few grains of unique, it seems it wouldn't foul as bad as BP would.

----------


## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> do you have a stevens visible loader?


http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ht=stevens+.22

The details are in this post.

----------


## COWBOYSURVIVAL

J.Stevens .22lr pump action Model 70 pat. 30-07. it is 22" including the chamber. I think it is pretty old maybe 1930's.

----------


## kyratshooter

Reworking a .22 rim fire to strike a percussion cap in the center of a chamber would be near impossible for the average home craftsman.

Not really worth the effort.

Building an inline ML is not difficult and I have seen them built with only 2 moving parts.  That "bubble packed" inline of Hunters only has 4-5 moving parts.  But building any firearm requires planning and skill. 

As for the .32 muzzleloaders, I don't want to rub it in, but building your own for 20 years does have it's advantages.  This is one I reworked about 10 years ago. 

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## COWBOYSURVIVAL

Lol! An Autocad Model would make quick work of hitting center! Everyday of the week and laser cutting the new hammer would take all of 30 seconds.

----------


## randyt

> J.Stevens .22lr pump action Model 70 pat. 30-07. it is 22" including the chamber. I think it is pretty old maybe 1930's.


that's what some call a visible loader. I have one like it but the pins and such are wore out to the point it doesn't function very well. I use it for a wall hanger.

----------


## kyratshooter

> Lol! An Autocad Model would make quick work of hitting center! Everyday of the week and laser cutting the new hammer would take all of 30 seconds.


Sorry, but most of us do not have an autocad and/or laser or plasma cutter sitting out in the workshop!

As we have often said here, you can turn anything into anything you want if you are willing to spend enough money.

----------


## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> that's what some call a visible loader. I have one like it but the pins and such are wore out to the point it doesn't function very well. I use it for a wall hanger.


Mines a wall hanger too, functions perfectly except for the chamber. I can't stand seeing it sit, beautiful stock and forearm. Even has a brass plate on the butt!

----------


## Lamewolf

> Been there, done that.
> 
> Be advised that if one cuts the .22 barrel just ahead of the chamber area they can use a standard 1/4 inch tap and thread a #11 nipple directly into the back of the barrel to make a 22 inline.
> 
> The pellet also remains engaged with the rifling rather than dropping into the empty space that was once the chamber.


Been thinking of that too, it would be fairly easy to build a 22 inline by just using a nipple for a #11 cap as a breech plug.  Would also be real easy to build a 22 flintlock by tapping the breech and just screwing a section of bolt in it to plug it up and then drill a touch hole in the side of the barrel.  But I like the idea of using a nipple and doing it all inline.

----------


## canid

> Sorry, but most of us do not have an autocad and/or laser or plasma cutter sitting out in the workshop!


Speak for yourself, humon.

In seriousness though, it's not just money. A diy approach can shave an amazing amount off of the cost of many projects, and CNC equipment is a great example. The downside is of course the investment in time, which is often more profitably traded for money.

----------


## hunter63

Back in  previous life I had access to a complete machine shop......was nice when building race cars.......

BTW I don't know if I would want to use a #11 nipple as a breach plug....

Even in-lines with breach plugs using 209 primers get a lot of blow back.......that need to be cleaned after firing.

----------


## Lamewolf

> Back in  previous life I had access to a complete machine shop......was nice when building race cars.......
> 
> BTW I don't know if I would want to use a #11 nipple as a breach plug....
> 
> Even in-lines with breach plugs using 209 primers get a lot of blow back.......that need to be cleaned after firing.


I don't think it would matter much with the small charges I would be using - maybe 5 grains max pushing a 22 caliber air rifle pellet !

----------


## hunter63

> I don't think it would matter much with the small charges I would be using - maybe 5 grains max pushing a 22 caliber air rifle pellet !


Might be right........Let me know how it turns out.........LOL

----------


## Lamewolf

> Might be right........Let me know how it turns out.........LOL


Yeah right - if I ever get off my duff and build the dang thing ! :Yawnb:

----------


## hunter63

I still gonna look for a 32 muzzle loader.......
Y'all can mess with the cutting, threading and machining.......

Last .22lc I bought was the H&R Sportster....(Like a Handi rifle, but for rim fire).......added the .22 mag and .17 HMR barrels.....shooting the .17 quite a bit

----------


## kyratshooter

> Back in  previous life I had access to a complete machine shop......was nice when building race cars.......
> 
> BTW I don't know if I would want to use a #11 nipple as a breach plug....
> 
> Even in-lines with breach plugs using 209 primers get a lot of blow back.......that need to be cleaned after firing.


"Back in the day" (we're talking the 1970s-80s) CVA made one of the first of the inline rifles.  It was not like the inlines we have today.  It was called the Blazer and it had a hammer striking a #11 nipple screwed into the back of the breech plug, right there by your nose.  It was available in .45 and 50 calibers and used full charges of BP.

They sold for $49.95.  

I owned several of them and was very disappointed when they were discontinued.

They had TWO moving arts, the hammer and trigger powered by a coil spring.

https://www.google.com/search?q=old+...72%3B639%3B426

----------


## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> "Back in the day" (we're talking the 1970s-80s) CVA made one of the first of the inline rifles.  It was not like the inlines we have today.  It was called the Blazer and it had a hammer striking a #11 nipple screwed into the back of the breech plug, right there by your nose.  It was available in .45 and 50 calibers and used full charges of BP.
> 
> They sold for $49.95.  
> 
> I owned several of them and was very disappointed when they were discontinued.
> 
> They had TWO moving arts, the hammer and trigger powered by a coil spring.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=old+...72%3B639%3B426


If I decide to undertake this .22 inline idea. I would suppose the trigger spring would likely need to be heavier than what is used for rimfire?

----------


## Lamewolf

> If I decide to undertake this .22 inline idea. I would suppose the trigger spring would likely need to be heavier than what is used for rimfire?


Why would the trigger spring need to be heavier ?  Maybe the hammer spring, but not the trigger spring.  But I'm still thinking of a 22 underhammer where the trigger spring also doubles as the hammer spring.

----------


## hunter63

Under hammer would be an in-line...or at least I can visualize that
This thread made me wonder if there are any .32 pistol caliber rifles around?.....like a straight walled rimmed case .32 S&W or .32 mag.

I would think these coupe be loaded with BP or Pyrodex lead bullet.
Only reason this pops in to mind is the Ruger Old Army.....45 cal BP cap and ball/conical bullet....has replacement chambers available that have basically a back cover that has 6 "firing pins" to fire a .45lc cased round. 

Now as these are straight walled cases, they are re-loaded with BP or Pyrodex for BP/Cowboys shoots........
Thinking out load as to the same process for a .32 round.

----------


## Lamewolf

> Under hammer would be an in-line...or at least I can visualize that
> .


No, an underhammer has the nipple at 90 degrees to the barrel and on the bottom of the barrel.  The trigger guard is also the mainspring to drive the hammer with the hammer in front of the trigger guard.  Google under hmammer rifle, I'm sure there are plenty of pictures, and one name for them was a "buggy rifle".

----------


## hunter63

I am familiar with the Hopkins and Allen rifles....and shot a few......but was confused when we were talking in-line.
All good, just cleared it up.....thanks.

----------


## kyratshooter

When dealing with these off the wall ideas we also need to think outside the box on the rifles we use to shoot them.  Imagine this design as the ignition for an in-line percussion ML and not just as an antique .22 rifle curiosity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=groXjMNUgrA

----------


## hunter63

There was another option.....CVA Electronic ignition....uses 9 volt battery
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/44063

----------


## randyt

I've been thinking about converting one of my destroyer carbines to 7.62x25 but it seems 7.62x25 isn't as plentiful as it once was. On the other hand 9mm largo is a reloading proposition so 7.62x25 might just as well be too. So many decisions LOL.

----------


## hunter63

> I've been thinking about converting one of my destroyer carbines to 7.62x25 but it seems 7.62x25 isn't as plentiful as it once was. On the other hand 9mm largo is a reloading proposition so 7.62x25 might just as well be too. So many decisions LOL.


Well, there ya go....made me go look up another one.....Sure you want to change/hack up an old collector edition?

----------


## randyt

Well I have a couple, a nice one and a beater. Had three but a kid wanted one to play with but he arrived late on the surplus scene so I helped out. The beater could be converted with out much pain.

----------


## kyratshooter

Your 9mm Destroyer will shoot .38 Super auto.  It is actually identical to the .38 colt auto, the original Browning full sized  auto-pistol round. 

You can reload it using .38spl dies and do not even have to buy .38 auto dies.

At least with the 9mm Largo/Super there is a source for cases.  With the 7.62x25 you would have to form your own and the RCBS forming die set cost $200. 

If you ever want to sell one of those carbines let me know!

----------


## randyt

I'll keep that in mind Krat, generally I almost never sell or trade a gun but sometimes. I have a coffee can of 9mm largo starline brass but was thinking the 7.62x25 would be a whiz. I thought that 7.62x25 was available from Winchester, S&B and possibly starline. Didn't realize it needed to be formed from a parent case.

----------


## kyratshooter

7.62x25 is SUPPOSED to be available from every major mfg, just like .22lr !!! LOL

Some day it may be again, but I am 64 and have no hope of living that long.

----------


## hunter63

Maybe we should get a wood frame/display case.......case up our favorite .22 and a box of 50 rds for something to show the grandkids.....

----------


## randyt

it will probably be like the .25 rimfire, just a little handful. or like any of the old rimfire or for that matter pinfire. rare beast indeed.

----------


## randyt

here a link to starline brass, perhaps if I go to order it it will be out of stock but currently it claims it's in stock. I have a cz-52 maybe I'll order a thousand. the nice thing about a destroyer carbine is it will be easier to find the brass, those semi autos throw brass all over creation.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-...liber/7.62x25/

----------


## Sam

What about the 5.7 round? It is center fire and should be a light enough bullet weight for small game. I am just throwing it in the mix for ideas on this thread. 
-Sam

----------


## Lamewolf

Another thought for this thread - a 32 short or 32acp in a rifle or carbine, small, light projectile and reloadable !

----------


## cwlongshot

I'm surprised the hornet and Bee have t been mentioned....

CW

----------


## kyratshooter

> I'm surprised the hornet and Bee have t been mentioned....
> 
> CW


We did mention the Hornet, and the Bee is just another of the necked down .22 centerfires of the 1950-60 era and falls in the same general category as all the other reduced loads in .222/.223/.224/22-250........

I suppose we are now at the point where folks are jumping in and commenting without reading the entire thread.

That happens.

----------


## kyratshooter

> Another thought for this thread - a 32 short or 32acp in a rifle or carbine, small, light projectile and reloadable !


We have not had much discussion of the caliber reducing inserts for the .32.  

I have not found them very accurate from their full rifle host guns but they are another option.  

I have one each in 30-06/.308/.303 brit/7.62x54R.  

Mine will fire .32acp/.32 Colt/.32 S&W and .32 H&R mag

Only they will not fire them well enough to feed me!

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

----------


## Lamewolf

> We have not had much discussion of the caliber reducing inserts for the .32.  
> 
> I have not found them very accurate from their full rifle host guns but they are another option.  
> 
> I have one each in 30-06/.308/.303 brit/7.62x54R.  
> 
> Mine will fire .32acp/.32 Colt/.32 S&W and .32 H&R mag
> 
> Only they will not fire them well enough to feed me!
> ...


  A friend of mine made me a 32 acp adapter for my old 410 single shot.  It has a 6 inch rifled section and shoots pretty darn good for what it is.

----------


## cwlongshot

> We did mention the Hornet, and the Bee is just another of the necked down .22 centerfires of the 1950-60 era and falls in the same general category as all the other reduced loads in .222/.223/.224/22-250........
> 
> I suppose we are now at the point where folks are jumping in and commenting without reading the entire thread.
> 
> That happens.


I stand corrected.. Randy did "mention it" on post 21. No one picked up on it.

I "jumped in" at post #6.  :Smile:   :Wink:  I have read whats here. 

The topic is alternatives to 22LR... My knowing what the Bee and Hornet is/are, is why I mentioned it.  :Smile:   When loading "down" a larger caliber its easiest done with the smallest powder capacity. Something both the Hornet and Bee have in spades over the 222, 222M, 223, 225, 22/250 and 220 offer. 

The thread has taken a turn to BP as a alternative, and in a "survival" alternative feel its logical and better alternative as compared to metallic reloading. 

CW

----------


## hunter63

Just seems that even smokeless powder for most any round is in short supply....or has been mentioned.
Haven't had to look lately.......
Sadly my local out let has given in to the evilness of shooty stuff, and turned into a shoe store.....on on-line or phone orders most likely be my new supply....along with the hazmat fee.....

----------


## COWBOYSURVIVAL

> Why would the trigger spring need to be heavier ?  Maybe the hammer spring, but not the trigger spring.  But I'm still thinking of a 22 underhammer where the trigger spring also doubles as the hammer spring.


I surely did mean to say "Hammer Spring" I would think it would be important to contain the primer.

----------


## randyt

> Another thought for this thread - a 32 short or 32acp in a rifle or carbine, small, light projectile and reloadable !


years ago after 32 rimfire became scarce my father took a old stevens favourite in 32 rimfire and converted it to 32 centerfire, not sure which one. Fairly easy conversion according to him, relocate the firing pin and a little extractor work.

----------


## xjosh40x

A year ago when 22LR were so hard to find I bought a used 17HMR. It packs more punch without the one in your shoulder. And is still as quiet. With the ballistic tip ammo I've taken a 11 year old boy from church on a youth hunt and took his first doe at about 40 yards. She did run about 30 yards but with a clean shot taking larger game it will do the job. The ammo was easy to get. It is fun to shoot and is incredible accurate for a smaller round. And with a FMJ I can take rabbit and squrrrel without damaging the good stuff.

----------


## hunter63

> A year ago when 22LR were so hard to find I bought a used 17HMR. It packs more punch without the one in your shoulder. And is still as quiet. With the ballistic tip ammo I've taken a 11 year old boy from church on a youth hunt and took his first doe at about 40 yards. She did run about 30 yards but with a clean shot taking larger game it will do the job. The ammo was easy to get. It is fun to shoot and is incredible accurate for a smaller round. And with a FMJ I can take rabbit and squrrrel without damaging the good stuff.


Please don't do that....a .17 has no business as a deer load.

Taking a youth hunting is a fantastic thing to do....Thank you for that.......but along with that comes the responsibility of doing the job properly.  

Seems you got lucky, but use the proper tool for the job....unless there were no alternatives.

----------


## kyratshooter

Perhaps the dry up of rimfire .17 is also a blessing in disguise.

----------


## Lamewolf

> Please don't do that....a .17 has no business as a deer load.
> 
> Taking a youth hunting is a fantastic thing to do....Thank you for that.......but along with that comes the responsibility of doing the job properly.  
> 
> Seems you got lucky, but use the proper tool for the job....unless there were no alternatives.


And it may not even be legal ?  I know here in Ohio its not legal anyway and this year we can hunt deer with rifles as long as its a straight walled cartridge.

----------


## xjosh40x

In Mississippi any firearm is legal beside federally regulated like full auto an suppressors. The boy is very small framed and new to hunting. He is raised by a single mother who wanted him to experience the southern tradition but didn't know how to introduce him herself. He is a crack shot. But the 243 and 20ga was a little tough on him. I knew the spot we went and where the deer come out most of the time. And with the ballistic tip and a solid shot he could take a deer. I really just wanted for him to enjoy the woods.

----------


## hunter63

I do commend you for making the time an effort in taking a young person hunting.....Don't take this wrong.
Just saying......

----------


## xjosh40x

I know fully the 17 was going to be a stretch to take a deer. I doubt any animal bigger than that 100 pound doe would have fallen. The boy is hitting his growth spurt and is wanting to go again this year and use his dads 270 that was left to him. I told him last year when we were cleaning the deer he made an excellent shot and anything less we would not have a deer. No offense taken as I would ask anyone else if a 17HMR would be a good idea but seeing I didn't have a .410 or 223 it was the next thing.

----------


## kyratshooter

What do you mean no .223??

Post 14 in the "bug out practice" thread says you have one.

"Besides I have a carry permit which I always have my weapon plus my AR15 I keep in my truck that would go with me"

What gives?

----------


## crashdive123

I don't believe Mississippi has any restrictions on caliber, but agree with H63 on not using it unless it is a matter of survival.

----------


## xjosh40x

I own a .410 but it stays with my parents as the only huntin diraa they have a larger caliber rifles and my dad is a big squirrel hunter I've left it with him. And yes a .223. I have an AR15 but the boy seems a little afraid of it. Mind you he was completely new to hunting and I was weary of him getting scared
Before we even started. Lots of guys use the .17 around here for deer hunting. I know a man personally that uses it and takes many deer but he always gets a head shot. He is the type who gets every inch of venison and he also tans hides.

----------


## Old Professor

Just because you CAN do something does not mean that you SHOULD do something! In the case of the .17, while it CAN kill a deer  even a slightly off target shot means a crippled animal, possibly lost to suffer a lingering death. Poor sportsman ship IMHO. Robert Ruark, the writer on Africa, said it best. USE ENOUGH GUN!

----------


## Lamewolf

> just because you can do something does not mean that you should do something! In the case of the .17, while it can kill a deer  even a slightly off target shot means a crippled animal, possibly lost to suffer a lingering death. Poor sportsman ship imho. Robert ruark, the writer on africa, said it best. Use enough gun!


amen amen amen !

----------


## Wildthang

There is no replacement for the .22 caliber rifles and pistols. They are what most people learned to shoot with, and what most of us learned to hunt with. It is a good small game getter and makes minimal noise when fired which in some cases gives you another shot at another critter. Up to now they were the most economical gun ever to plink and hunt small game with.
Old men could hunt with them and small children could learn to shoot with them, the .22 holds a special place in firearms history. A good bolt action tube feed .22 is light, dependable, light ammo, and quiet shooting. The .17 is the only thing that comes close, but it louder and ammo is more exensive in most cases.
I also think the .22 mag is a great little round as well, but to me it is just another .22. So I am buying every box of .22 ammo I can get my hands on because I'll be dam if I'm going to carry a heavy shotgun just to shoot a squirrel or a rabbit with, when I can carry my light quiet shooting little .22 rifle and do the same job.

Okay Kyrat lets here it :Smartass:

----------


## randyt

I would be teed off if you had called me a old man LOL. Don't know if I had mentioned it but historically speaking a 22 lr wasn't used for hunting all that much at least my research shows that.

I've often wondered how many shots a woodsman of old would make in a lifetime compared to a modern woodsman. It's nothing these days to take a 50 round box of 22 lr out on a afternoon and plink away. I wonder how much shooting a woodsman done back when all they used frontstuffers.

----------


## hunter63

They didn't shoot all that much...unless there was something to shoot at...and something deserved to be shot.
I would mention a day at the range to MF and he would say....Why?...you don't know how it works.

To say nothing that maybe the average guy back then owned one maybe two guns.....

I get a kick out of the "air rifle: as a replacement....I don't know of a air rilfe that you can rip off 30 rounds at a beer can.

----------


## Lamewolf

> Don't know if I had mentioned it but historically speaking a 22 lr wasn't used for hunting all that much at least my research shows that.
> 
> .


Umm, I beg to differ on that statement.  My dad told me about his granddad teaching him to hunt using a 22 and a lot of the old timers used them because that's all they could afford.  My granddad always had a 22 propped by the door on the farm so he could grab it and put meat in the pot whenever he saw a rabbit or squirrel in the yard.  The 22 has been a steady companion for many in the hunting woods throughout its life and has probably killed more game than any other cartridge known simply because of its availability !

----------


## Lamewolf

> They didn't shoot all that much...unless there was something to shoot at...and something deserved to be shot.
> I would mention a day at the range to MF and he would say....Why?...you don't know how it works.
> 
> To say nothing that maybe the average guy back then owned one maybe two guns.....
> 
> I get a kick out of the "air rifle: as a replacement....I don't know of a air rilfe that you can rip off 30 rounds at a beer can.


I saw a fully automatic BB gun once that would shoot more than 30 rounds - probably more like 100 !  It was at an amusement park and looked like an old tommy gun and you shot at a paper target with a star on it, if you shot the star out, you won a prize. Probably wasn't powerful enough to kill game with, but my Benjamin 392 22 air rifle will put squirrels and rabbits down with ease !  But you have to load one round at a time and then pump it 8 times between each shot.  But check this out: http://fullyautomaticairgun.com/

----------


## Wildthang

Lame you are absolutely right, my Dad and all of his relatives lived in the deep dark woods of Arkansas, almost in all cases, all they owned was .22 rifles. If it had hair on it they used the .22, if it had feathers they used an old beat up Stevens double barrel shotgun. The only time the shotgun got used was during Quail and Duck season because they could barely afford shells for it. They owned some wooded land and they took dear with the .22 as well because they just didn't have anything else to shoot them with. They didn't know all of the rules, if they needed meat they used a .22 to get it.
All of the old coon hunters my Dad knew used a .22 rifle once the dogs had one up a tree. Anybody that thinks a .22 is a worthless round must have never hunted with one.
In my honest opinion there never will be a replacement for a .22, and I would like to think that ammo manufacturers will eventually produce enough .22 ammo that they will be available and on the shelf again!

----------


## hunter63

Always wanted one of these...........


Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## randyt

My grandfather used a 97 winchester for jut about everything. he also used a 22 hornet. When he passed the only 22 lr he owned was a colt officers target revolver.  I have a stevens tip up that was used as a trapline gun that  traded from him when I was a kid. I will not say that no one used a .22 lr for hunting but look through the gear lists of the old timers and many didn't even list a .22 lr.

----------

