# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Making Stuff >  How would you make these

## the edge

Ok in a worst case scenario how would you make a bow and arrow to hunt?

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## echos

Out of a Willow tree branch, cause it would be pilable enough. Use another leaved branch and tie together. As for the flint, well, I will have to think on that. I suppose I would use a sling shot. Or maybe just the rocks. How about fishing? I think I could make a pole eaiser that a bow and arrow.

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## Bowcatz

Today I found a large leg bone down by the creek. Cow? Horse? It was fresh. The bone was thick. I broke the bone with a large rock and it produced heavy, wide shards of bone that would make great arrowheads. You can abrade the bone pieces on rough stone to give them shape and a very sharp point. Much easier than flint knapping, too. The other splinters of bone will make great gorge hooks for fishing or small spear points for frog or small game spearing. I can make sewing needles from the even smaller pieces of bone.

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## vicki2

The bone shards are a good idea ....the bow would be fairly easy, but the arrowheads themselves would take some looking around!

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## taiarain

I'd probably lean toward making spears, first, because it would be faster. I'd take solid sticks and sharpen the edge. If a knife were available, I might try to notch the tip as well.

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## mamab

I've never even thought about how to make a bow and arrow. My husband does flintknapping, so the arrows wouldn't be the problem, if he were with me. I've watched, but never have actually done any knapping myself. I have a basic idea of how they're made, though.

I would think that you'd want to find some wood that was stable, yet somewhat limber so that you could attach the string. Now, I don't know where you'd get string, unless you pulled them from your shoes.

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## Minwaabi

The best natural bow strings are made from sinew (animal muscles).  So generally speaking if you want a bow of any strength you have to kill something first to make the bow string.  (So make a spear first which was already mentioned).  Also, I know a lot of folks think of using super limber woods to make bows.  This is generally a bad idea.  The best wood is Osage Orange, (also known as hedge apple), or Yew.  Barring that, anything that can take 30 pounds of weight and spring back to its original shape after the load is taken off.  Also, don't use vines and things to make a string, they just break unless you know how to braid the flax.  If you can't get a draw weight of at least 10lbs don't expect to kill *anything* with it.  I had a toy bow sold to me as a "hunting bow" with a draw weight of 10lbs and it could not penetrate at all.  (Oh well it was $2 at a garage sale).  You really should shoot for 25lbs or more.

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## Tangent210

I would make a spear. You can get much more accuracy from that than any bow (unless of course you put some time into it and are experienced with bow making). The arrows you produce may not fly straight, they will most likely break often and aren't worth the time. There are far far better ways to catch food in an emergency than making a bow.

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## Bowcatz

I've read tons of archery books about taking deer with archery gear and the books suggest a draw weight of no less than 45 pounds for a small deer.

Personally, I would create as many traps, drop holes (pits), and nets as possible to capture game. I could use the spear to kill the game without touching it when I find it trapped. Traps are like hunters with their own particular skill waiting for the game to get snared, fall in, or get hung up in. The more you have out there, the more hunters you have aiding you in getting meat. 

Snapping turtles, rabbits, and even deer can leave deep, open wounds with their defenses like teeth, claws, or sharp hooves. Snapping turtles have huge claws and a very sharp mouth. They are quick, too. Can take off a finger or nose like that. (Snaps fingers.) A large catfish can spine the heck out of your hand if you grab for them without any experience in doing it before. Noodlers can proudly show you some really good puncture scars from grabbing cats the wrong way. I guess most of us have seen the doofus get attacked by a large buck after pouring Doe-n-Heat on himself and going out among the deer herd armed with a compound bow and not much common sense. It's over at YouTube, in case you haven't. I hope this link for it works. Sometimes they don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUvLInmo0U

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## thinkfree3

my friend made one once using a small tree and 550 paracord, it didn't work so well. 
I would go with the spear idea also, horseshoe crab tails make good spear/arrow heads if you have those around. I would make more then one spear, nothing like missing the first shot an not havin anything to fall back on. I would also lash a chunk of something to a stick to use as a club along with the spear. The reality of it is that if i do manage to stick an animal i'm probably just going to slow it down unless i somehow manage to hit it in a vital spot, so i'd use the club to beat it to death after i speared the poor beast. I recomend hitting a critter in the head with your club, it ends it fast but make sure it's not just passed out before you try to clean it.

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## the edge

k thanks guys

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## thinkfree3

That dude on man vs wild used a stick, he took the bark off so it would fly faster an he was chuckin it at this stump for practice and then he popped a rabit in the head with the thing.

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## illinia

I think I would try a deadfall to take a deer, as deer like people tend not to look up thus the tree stand.pit traps would require far to much digging and in a worst case situation would take to much time.If there were more than 1 person driving off cliff,into water,onto ice ,etc

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## marberry

if your in a survival situation make traps and snares , they work alot beter and are easier to make

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## wolf

The Chances of making a good bow with your bare hands is very low, unless your a master fletcher

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## FVR

I've made many, many primitive bows.  If I was in a survival situation, I'd make a spear.

Making a bow would take up more time than it's worth.  Yesterday, while doing an MME event, (boring sit on your arse job for 16 hours watching an air compressor and a vacuum unit) I noticed some nice dried rivercane.  Found two nice stout straight pieces, cut down with my Gerber to 29 inches and sat down and knapped two arrowheads.  (Always take a knapping kit) Did not attach feathers as the only ones I could find were from a turkey processor and they were just nasty.  It took about 4 hours to create next years hunting arrows.

If I was to make a good killing bow, it would take a day if'n I could find a good piece of hickory.  I make all my bows without power tools so I know what I would be in for.  As long as I had a sharp little ax, I'm in business.

Rather.

Sit down, knapp a spear head, attach to a nice straight piece of bamboo or a large shoot.  Then find a hardwood stick with a stought branch, break off about 1/4 inch from base.  Wala, you have a atlatl.  

Then it's time to practice.


Good survival pieces, make up some trade points from an old sawblade you have laying in the garage.  They are flat and you can stack as many as you want in a small area.  You may even want to file down a dull edge on them, to sharpen in the field just run a smooth rock down the blades.

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## nell67

> I've read tons of archery books about taking deer with archery gear and the books suggest a draw weight of no less than 45 pounds for a small deer.
> 
> Personally, I would create as many traps, drop holes (pits), and nets as possible to capture game. I could use the spear to kill the game without touching it when I find it trapped. Traps are like hunters with their own particular skill waiting for the game to get snared, fall in, or get hung up in. The more you have out there, the more hunters you have aiding you in getting meat. 
> 
> Snapping turtles, rabbits, and even deer can leave deep, open wounds with their defenses like teeth, claws, or sharp hooves. Snapping turtles have huge claws and a very sharp mouth. They are quick, too. Can take off a finger or nose like that. (Snaps fingers.) A large catfish can spine the heck out of your hand if you grab for them without any experience in doing it before. Noodlers can proudly show you some really good puncture scars from grabbing cats the wrong way. I guess most of us have seen the doofus get attacked by a large buck after pouring Doe-n-Heat on himself and going out among the deer herd armed with a compound bow and not much common sense. It's over at YouTube, in case you haven't. I hope this link for it works. Sometimes they don't.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUvLInmo0U


I know this isnt funny,this could happen without the doe scent addition,but I  laugh until I cried..but it does show one of the dangers of being in nature that some people dont even think about.

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## kid

earthskills.com has a course on bow making and other stuff outdoors

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## gringo

> I guess most of us have seen the doofus get attacked by a large buck after pouring Doe-n-Heat on himself and going out among the deer herd armed with a compound bow and not much common sense. It's over at YouTube, in case you haven't. I hope this link for it works. Sometimes they don't.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUvLInmo0U


I hadn't seen that video.  WOW.  You know that has to be embarrassing.

One of our guides, Arrildo, is a Borôro indian and he makes bows by hand.   They are long bows and really beautiful and unbelievably strong.   He lets the wood soak in water for about a year before he makes them.  He's killed deer, crocs and jaguars with them, plus a whole bunch of other animals.

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## FVR

When I lived in S.Cal. we use to go spearfishing.  Had alot of success with a Hawiian sling.  Basically it was a spear with surgical tubing at the back.  You would wrap the surcial tubing around your wrist and stretch the tubing back and hold.  When you saw a fish, just get close, withing 6 to 8 feet and let go.

Prob. would work great for fish in streams.

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## trax

Use a strong wood like birch or ash, (ash would probably be best) bend it the wrong way, tie it off and soak it like that, when you bend it back the way you're going to shoot with it, very strong and very flexible. Arrows...use small willows, trim them as straight as possible. Flint knapping is definitely best for the arrowheads, and if you're in a survival situation, think small game. It's nice to get a deer, easier to kill a rabbit or a grouse.

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## rusty_oxydado

In a survival situation, I would make a bundle bow, made up of a bundle of long thin green willow shoots. The string I am sure I would want something unlikely to break, maybe a length of stripped out wood, maybe about 2-3 growth rings thick., and use inner cedar bark twine to tie off the bent over ends so they will fit nicely to the nocks in the bow.
  Arrows would simply be long and strait shoots, if with nothing else at hand stiff leaves tied on for the flights, and if in a hurry the tip can be sharpend, and tempered in the flames of the camp fire, the excess char simply being scraped off on a stone. When there is time and chret, obsidian, or flint handy arrow heads can be napped, but this is a survival right now thing right?

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## rusty_oxydado

I commend the suggestion to the use of the atlattle. Far more shock value than with an arrow.

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## trax

In the survive right now scenario, it's important for the individual to remember to  make the hunting device that he/she can handle with some degree of competence as well. I like Rusty's advice on the bowstring, you have to use what's available to you, but there's been good advice on going fishing or trapping instead. There's no point (no pun intended) in making a bow and arrow set if it's going to take you days to learn to shoot straight, you need to eat now. If you have a pocket knife and a bit of string on you (and if you don't you should have stayed home, really), you can sharpen a small fork in a branch to make an adequate fish hook, even a bit of moss or grass wrapped around it will work as "bait". Tie the string around a small pebble for a sinker or your hook will float, toss it in the water and tie off the other end to a strong tree. It'll probably get you supper while you're practicing with your bow.

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## FVR

I have a bundle bow made up downstairs.  Used green bamboo shootsn and a mess of imm. sinew.  Pulls about 35 to 40lbs.  When it takes a set, put the string on the other side and bend it back.

Honesty, I'd make a spear / atlatl.

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## BillHay

This is all bull****! Do you people have any idea about the advice your giving out?Really? Just curious.

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## Sarge47

> This is all bull****! Do you people have any idea about the advice your giving out?Really? Just curious.


Bill, please try to remain civil, positive, and constructive.  I personally don't know anything about the subject at hand so I haven't contributed to this thread, do you have any input?

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## BillHay

In a survival situation, your best means of gettin meat is by trapping & fishing. Others have mentioned that before. That is common  knowledege. my concern is raised by the thought that "hunting" especially with a primitive bow and crude arrows will  (other than occupy the mind) be productive and provide somone with food. Lets get real here folks, hunting with a bow and arrow is not a practical survival skill.... yet...too many skills to learn no time to teach..

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## FVR

Bill,

I believe that the trapping issue vs hunting issue has been discussed and most all have agreed that trapping is the way to go.

But there is no harm in knowing how to build a crude bow and arrow.  Having built many bows and many more arrows, the only way I would use a bow in a survival sit. is if it was long term not an emergency and I had no gun.  Guns work a lot better, longer shots and less tracking.

That being said, don't dis anyone for wanting knowledge.  This is a place where we throw ideas back and forth, and between the lines get some good info.

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## Sarge47

> lol
> and yet...many thousands of years, many groups, many cultures, have used, still use, the bow and arrow to provide food and security to themselves and their families.
> 
> 
> But, i would say that food in general, is probably not going to be your first need in a survival situation to start with...after all, we can survive a long time without eating.
> 
> rule of three ?
> 
> -3 seconds without attention
> ...


Here is my addition to the "Rule of Three":  Three of anything, fires, whistle blasts, gunshots, etc., is the recognized distress signal.

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## trax

Yeah, Billy

I seem to recall that I mentioned a person in a survival situation should have some degree of competence with whatever hunting and/or trapping device they choose. Others mentioned using different options as well.If someone wants to go out and attempt to make a bow and arrow  from scratch, so that they can improve their competencies, that might be a good thing. Personally, I hunt with a rifle and I'm pretty good at it, I'm a terrible shot with a bow and think the animal deserves my respect enough that I don't go gamboling about in the woodlands trying to kill them with a bow and I've trapped and fished. My opinion on using a spear would be for spearing fish in shallows too, hunting with a spear or atlatl is pretty close to impossible unless the person has previous training. There are people in Africa who can still hunt lions with a spear. I'm not one of them and I'm never going to pretend that I am. Trapping can be damn hard and unproductive work at times too, so let's all take our share of responsibility for the bull#### and maybe realize that the purpose of these forums is for everyone to learn a little more about life in the wilds

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## trax

So, after my last long winded tirade, I hit the backup arrow to go look in other threads and I thought to myself "Hey! what should a person expect in a forum entitled 'primitive technologies'?" :EEK!:

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## rusty_oxydado

Sadly I thought this thread was asking how to build a bow and arrow in a field expedient manner.
  If survival by wit's end, then other means of getting food should be sought out. Many directions and means should be attempted inorder to gather enough food to get by on.
  Back the the original thread, after making the initial field expedient bow, those nights sitting by the fire time can well be used in taking time and skill in making a more refined bow, and getting the supply of arrows put together.

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## Smok

WELL I do agree with some   trapping , fishnet and trot line would are great for maken meat . But the man asked about making a BOW  . The quick bow is what you want it is made as echos said but I don't think you got it , you need 6 to 9 green willows as big as your thumb and short 2' ,3' to long 4',5',6',7' this depends on how strong you need the bow to be . Tie these together  and they will make a good quick bow that you can use as soon as it is completed . I have made these bow as strong as 60" pull, of you would like see this bow in work see the movie Predator Arnold made it and the bow  is in an article in Wilderness Way Mag.

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## Beo

Illinia, I wanna see you drive a deer off a cliff. Snare traps for rabbits and squirrels is best, diging pits is to time consuming. And making a spear is way more easier than a bow and arrows, but not impossible. All of it depends on the situation. I's snare and spear as I worked my way towards help if I was that desperate. Snapping turtles is good and I'd not worry about their snapping just pick up by the shell back, or turn onto their back before killing. Now I've ate turtle but not frog... hmmm hate the thought eting frog.

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## Beo

Ok, here's how to do it.
Choose a piece of wood for the bow. Find a piece of dry, dead hardwood--oak, hickory, yew, black locust, or teak for example--about 1 meter (1 yard) in length. The wood should be free of knots, twists or limbs. Green wood can be used if absolutely necessary, but it should be avoided because it does not provide the same power as dry wood. If using green wood, try for pine. It is the easiest to cut, and clean. Steel wool is usuable to clean it off. 
Determine the natural curve of the stick. Every piece of wood will have a natural curve, no matter how slight. As you construct the bow, be mindful of the curve. 
Shape the bow. Ideally, you will want the bow to be strong (and hence thicker) in the center. A thick center will also serve as a good handle. Using a knife or similar tool, shave wood off the inside of the curve (the side that faces behind you when shooting) on the thicker half of the stick until it has the same width and pull as the thinner half. If the stick is roughly the same diameter all along its length, you may need to shave both ends to some degree. You want the bow to end up with a thick, strong center portion flanked by two thinner, more flexible end segments of roughly the same thickness and length. Cut notches to hold the bow string. Use your knife to cut notches about 1-2 inches from each end of the bow. The notches should be in the shape of a half moon on the outside of the bow's curve. Select a bow string. The string can be made of rawhide, thin nylon rope, hemp cord, strands of cotton or silk from caterpillars, perhaps even vines or sinew. If you are stranded in the wilderness, it may be difficult to find a suitable string, and you may need to try a variety of materials before you find one that has the necessary strength. The string should not be stretchy, as the power comes from the wood, not the string. 
String the bow. Attach the string to the notch at one end of the bow. It is best to wrap it around the notch a few times before knotting it off. Then bend the bow and attach the string to the other notch. The string should be taut, and you should be able to feel the tension in the string and bow as you pull the string back even slightly. To make the bowstring reusable in the even that it should break, use a slipknot on each end. 
Select sticks for arrows. Arrows should be formed from the straightest sticks you can find. The wood should be dry and dead, however green wood does work if you can give it some extra time to dry out naturally, as the sap may ignite if placed over a fire to dry; each arrow should be about half as long as the bow, or as long at the bow can draw back. It does not do to have arrows that can't be pulled back to the bow's potential.Shape the arrows. You will need to whittle the wood smooth around the circumference of the arrow. You can straighten an arrow by gently heating the shaft over hot coals--do not scorch or burn the wood--and then holding the arrow straight while the wood cools. Carve a small notch at the back end of each arrow to accommodate the bow string. Construct the arrowheads. The simplest arrowhead is simply a carved point on the front of the arrow shaft. You can whittle such a point with a knife and then fire harden it by gently heating it in coals (again, be careful not to burn or scorch the wood). You can also construct an arrowhead from metal, stone, glass, or bone and attach it to the arrow's tip by notching the wood, inserting the arrowhead into the notch, and then lashing the arrowhead to the wood with some sort of string or cord. 
Find some feathers to make the fletchings and glue them (if possible) onto the back ends of the arrows. If fletching is not feasible, skip this step. While fletching improves the arrow's flight, it is not necessary for a field-expedient weapon.
Hope this helps.
Beo,

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## Nativedude

In a true survival situation making a bow (and the arrows & broadheads) would expend a lot of energy for not a lot of results, unless you are an experienced archer/bow hunter and happen to have ready made arrows. Making and setting multiple snares, traps, or dead-falls (5-10 of them) is much more productive and gives you a many more chances at actually having some food to eat, and while your snares, traps, or dead-falls are at work, you can spend you time being more productive making a fire to cook your meal, once you get it, finding and boiling water to drink, or building a shelter.

I have used a sling shot to shoot rabbits and squirrels with some willow arrows and obsidian broadheads I made prior to going out into the woods and took them with me. I did this to see if it would actually work. . .it did. It worked really well, in fact, but I had my shelter (a wiki-up) already built, my fire going, with plenty of fire wood gathered, and water boiled and stored in my canteen before going out and trying to track down the rabbit and squirrels, and I had 5 snares set-up on some rabbit trails I spotted on my way into my shelter area.

Making a "survival bow" & arrows is good practice and learning to use it is a definite plus, but IMHO, I would do this before I went into the woods and I would take it with me and use it. It is a lot of fun!

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## flandersander

How did you use arrows with a slingshot? Was it a wrist rocket?

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## Nativedude

No, it was not a wrist rocket. It was a slingshot I made from a piece of hickory. I used the bottom of the "V" as the arrow rest. The arrows had crow feather fletching so the arrows slid thru easily.   :Smile:

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## FVR

For those that do not know how to knapp arrowheads, you can take an old radial saw blade, and cut out 3 or 4 "trade points" basically just triangles with a stem.

Once cut out, take a file to the edges and make them just sharp enough, not super sharp as you can do that with a river rock once attached to an arrow or spear end.

3 or 4 of these can be wrapped with imm. sinew and takes up very little room.  I do however know how to knapp arrowheads, spearheads, knives, and still carry 3 tucked away in the bottom of the possibles bag.

Arrows and the like do shoot very nicely out of slingshots, if they are not too heavy.

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## Nativedude

This is one of the stone arrowheads I've made. I keep it hanging around my neck, I have it set up and ready to lash to a shaft. Once it is tied on I would seal it with a little pine pitch and deer dung glue. I keep a couple extra in my waist pouch.

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## flandersander

Thats sweet. How do you make "pine pitch" I won't bother with deer s*** glue.

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## Nativedude

You collect the pitch from from pine trees. Boil it in water until it floats on top of the water and gets soft. Then you take a stick and collect all the softened pitch on it (like the end of a Q-tip.) When you heat the pitch to use, you have to mix the deer dung with to make the glue set up properly.

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## MedicineWolf

Native Dude said: "I have used a sling shot to shoot rabbits and squirrels with some willow arrows" 

I say: Bullcrap!

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## FVR

Don't use water for pine pitch, I just put it in this little pan and heat, and heat, and heat.  It gets nasty, sticky, and black.  Then I just roll it onto a broken arrow shaft and let dry.

I don't use no deer crap.

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## Nativedude

Well MedicineWolf, it is true. I have been bow hunting since 8 years of age. I ONLY bow hunt. I shoot instinctively (no sights on my bow.) I have shot geese, pheasant, ptarmagin, ruffed grouse, squirrels, rabbits, raccoon, possum, russian boar, javelina, deer, elk, bear, moose, caribou, mulies, black tail, bison, and many other animals. Using my hickory sling shot, with willow arrow shafts, obsidian arrow heads, and crow feather fletching, all bound with whitetail sinew, I have shot quite a few rabbits and squirrels in survival situations. I would never try this method on any game larger than a snowshoe hare, but it is quite effective on small animals!

You don't even know me, yet you call me a liar?! That's Bullcrap!!  :Mad: 




> Native Dude said: "I have used a sling shot to shoot rabbits and squirrels with some willow arrows" 
> 
> I say: Bullcrap!


  :Confused:

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## Nativedude

> Don't use water for pine pitch, I just put it in this little pan and heat, and heat, and heat.  It gets nasty, sticky, and black.  Then I just roll it onto a broken arrow shaft and let dry.
> 
> I don't use no deer crap.


If you boil it in water, it softens faster and does not turn black. It turns a brownish color (like caramel.) It is the way I learned many years ago and it has always worked. Use deer dung, don't use deer dung. . .that's your choice.

I was asked how to make it and I posted the way I have always made and used it. The methods that I use and teach are the Native methods I was taught many years ago.  :Wink:

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## trax

where did you hunt caribou?

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## Beo

Where you from Nativedude, not picking just asking bro.

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## MedicineWolf

I too hunt only with longbow, and have taken many game animals, elk, moose, deer, and plenty of small game, but a slingshot that shoots arrows is hard for me to believe. The accuracy would be as limited as the distance, I was taught by my family (Nothern Cheyenne) and my tribe on the res. to hunt, fish, tan skins, trap, forage, and survive off the land as well as the U.S. Army Ranger school, but never in my forty years on this planet have I heard of a native (or anyone) using a slingshot with arrows. Maybe I'm not accustomed to your tribe as I assume you are Native American by your name. 
It was not my intention to offend you, sorry if I did, but I find that really hard to believe so as my good friend Beowulf65 says... it is only opinion take it or leave it.

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## Nativedude

I have taken Caribou in Canada and Alaska (where I live.) 

A slingshot w/arrows works at a range up to 50'. It is quite effective. When I (survival) hunt, I stalk and still hunt. Have done it that way all my life. The slingshot is not a native method, it is a method I tried on my own. I was curious to see if it would work and it did.

I am 1/8th Lakota (on my father's side.) I have studied the native way of life for many years, even before I found out about my heritage. Ever since I was a little boy I have hated what the white man has done to this country and the Native peoples of this land.

I have spent time in many countries, and just about every one I have been to, the people are very "tribal" by nature. . .not in the U.S. though. It is every man for himself.   :Confused:

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## HOP

Hate now there is a dangerious survival tool, everyman for hiself is just live and let live , let people make their mistakes so hopefully they wil learn from them and not blame  the tribe just because it is not their own tribal means sticking together when some do it it is racisim and when others do it it is tribal, for a person to say I am responciable is good enough for me.
I would take the best avaliable wood and form a bow with a knife napped or steel make cordage and then arrows would use stone or bone for arrow heads and cane or reds for shaft wouldn't sweat fletchings but would use feather if avaliable or strong leaves.

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## FVR

I remember when I was 8 years old, up in the Pennsy mountains, I had a wrist rocket and an old arrow that I found.  Spent two day shooting that arrow.  Never thought of using it to kill rabbits, never really though of using a slingshot to kill anything.  I just used an old red fiberglass Fred Bear bow.

Traded that little old bow to my uncle for a 40lb lemonwood longbow.  Killed many a rabbit with that bow.

To me, slingshots are just toys.  Yes, they can hurt you and maybe, just maybe take a squirrel or rabbit, but I'll stick with the bow and arrow.

This is just my opinion, take it or leave it.





> I have spent time in many countries, and just about every one I have been to, the people are very "tribal" by nature. . .not in the U.S. though. It is every man for himself.


I disagree.  How do you explain the popularity of subdivisions.  The U.S. has a very large "group ideology," sometimes it's too large.

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## Nativedude

> I disagree.  How do you explain the popularity of subdivisions.  The U.S. has a very large "group ideology," sometimes it's too large.


Subdivision are a group of houses that random people from all different areas move in to. Never have I seen a family, other than the Kennedy family that occupies an entire block of houses.

Native tribes of the U.S. (Native Americans), Australia (Aborigines), for example lives in tribes (there family only) units.

Subdivisions are the Europeans brain-child. Designed and allocated to force random people to live together.

In most tribal settings you do not have stealing, vandalism, etc., except from those outside of the tribe. In subdivisions you don't know your neighbor and loyalty, well that is very low on the list.

Europeans (white man,) are not tribal by nature. Although Scottish and Irish families (clans) are generally very tight-knit, but not always.

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## FVR

First of all a tribe is not


> Native tribes of the U.S. (Native Americans), Australia (Aborigines), for example lives in tribes (there family only) units.


Maybe I'm reading this wrong, you indicate that a tribe is a family.

A tribe is:

A unit of sociopolitical organization consisting of a number of families, clans, or other groups who share a common ancestry and culture and among whom leadership is typically neither formalized nor permanent.


There are many of us on the board, not just you, who have lived and experienced living around the world.  Yes, there are formalized tribes in many parts of the world. Your statement 


> I have spent time in many countries, and just about every one I have been to, the people are very "tribal" by nature. . .not in the U.S. though. It is 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				every man for himself
> 			
> 		
> 
> .


 is kind of devoid of intelligence or as sinine.

Maybe in "your" ideology and your actions 


> every man for himself


.  Many, no I will say most Americans do not feel this way.  If we did, the U.S. would not be the number one country in the world that spends billions and billions of dollars on foreign aid, not to mention the aid that we, the U.S. Government give to those in need in this country.

Maybe you have some kind of weird agenda with your statements, or maybe, I just read too much into your words.

----------


## Nativedude

No FVR, I have no _"weird"_ agenda.

The U.S. and the people in it are $$$ driven. The old saying goes _"What's the bottom line ($)"_

The U.S. is so busy giving foreign aid (so that they "the politicians") look good that we forget about our own (American citizens.) Take a look at the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. The illustrious gov't wants the private sector to pay to rebuild it. Where's all that foreign aid money now?? Oh yeah, that only for foreign countries.

Everybody, with the exception of the Native Americans, is a foreigner. So in essence helping out people in this country is "foreign aid!!"

Big companies too, use this land and its people for all they can get out of them and then leave, dumping their workers and caring less what happens to them. As long as they (the big co.) can make their money!! *"EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF!!"*

America is so busy trying to look good for the other countries that we have lost sight of what truly matters. . . .*"The people of the Americas!!*

I'm not saying that I am the only one who has been around the world. I am simply saying that the tribes I have had the pleasure of visiting and observing are like a well-oiled machine working in harmony together, yes I am aware that they have their difficulties, but the white man of the U.S. are all for "themselves," be-damned anyone who stands in his way! I have seen it too many times, in everyday life.

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## FVR

I can not and will not think like that.  The US gives alot of money to it's own citizens in need.  Are there screw ups and mistakes, of course.  From what I've seen around the world, the only reason they are not like the US, is that they just have not evolved to it yet.

To me, it sounds like you are speaking of one specific political party.  Yes, I do agree with you that we send too much money abroad, also that the politicians do it to further their careers in politics. 

Of course money plays a big part of the US economy, duh.  The US has and many companies have gotten the idea of selling debt, so of course all the debtors main interest is money.  It has to be.  

You want to look at Katrina, well let's.  The Bush admin. is getting slammed for decisions that Dem. leaders made.  It's a no win situation.  How about all the freebies that many American citizens donated to those that lost it all in La.?  You don't speak of that.  You like many others fall victim to the propoganda of the media, and expect the US government to pick up the full tab.  How about the homeowners that were warned and chose to stay?  I know, personally a few that lived through Katrina, living in La.  They lost it all, they almost lost their lives, yet when I talk to them they say, "they" should have takend responsibility and listened to the warnings.

You forget to mention how the good ol private sector raised their construction hourly rates to rebuild Katrina's victims homes, oh, but that would not give you ammo to disgrace the US Government.

You can alway find fault, that's the easy part.

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## HOP

Nativedude I would say it is amazing that you can remain oblective in fact I would say it is impossable. You obveisiously have your side in this argument and regardless of our side is human nature . I have also been all over the world and been a student of history and human behavior. Everyone at one time or another migrated to this continent and all the native tribes as well people argue, fight , become jelious and even evil  tribes have wared against each other taken slaves stole where is the harmony in this. It sounds like you want to blame someone for something. You say you are 1/8 native in a lot of tribes that won't get you in the door . I think you see technology as the enemy and even you say your home is a primitave log cabin you still embrace technology by getting on line. I am an earthling my self and think someone who doesn't embrace al the people of the world as equals and deserving understanding and compassion is a biggot, racist and has poison in his heart I call them anti social criters.and they wil probably never be happy until they understand they are Earthling like everyone else.
I also think there is hope for al.

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## Nativedude

The last thing I want tis to get into a pissing match over politics, world events, and world history!! But, I do not like how the gov't (be it the dems. or repubs.) is trying to force this world into a global economy. PERIOD!! Nuff said.

Hop. . .I accept and respect that others have their own opinions. I was simply expressing mine, and no I am not a fan of technology. This computer is one I borrow while I am visiting family. I do not own any electronics, except for a handmade hand crank generator, and 1 video camera w/3 batteries. I record my adventures in the woods to show my family when I come to visit.

My last statement on this topic is: *WE THE SHEEPLE. . .BAA! BAA!!*
F.Y.I.; I get online because I would rather spend my time, while amongst the herd, talking to people of the same ilk as I. I am here to talk about the outdoors and all the fun we (the people on this forum) have in the woods, fields, lakes, streams, oceans, etc.

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## FVR

Nativedude,

Maybe you're a sheep, but many here are not.  We have put our lives on the forefront at one time or another, we accept that the US may not be perfect, but it's a he ll of alot better than most other places in the world.

We support our government even though we do not always agree with out government.  If you want to build a cabin and hide yourself away, that's fine, to each his own.  But to make a statement like your sheep statement, defacing the US Constitution just shows me that you are a POS scum.

This is my last statement to YOU, Nativedude on this subject.

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## Nativedude

FVR,

Your the type that calls people names that don't agree with you and your way of thinking!! I may be a POS, but at least I'm not suckling on the gov't. teet and walking around with a brown nose!! I see your avatar, and I assume you are active or retired military? I respect and applaud you, and the fact that you served, but that doesn't mean that I, nor anyone else, has to bend to your way of thinking. And it certainly does not make them, nor I, a POS just because we don't!

I support the military. I have many friends that are active and retired Navy and Marines, and an uncle that is a Korean war Vet. Does not mean that I have to like or support the gov't. I am not anti gov't., just anti politics. I was a staunch republican for many years, but even that party is now a laugh-a-minute, continuous, joke!

People just continue to go along with "big brother" and let him do W.E.T.F. they (politicians) want to do. *Case in point; the gas prices. That is just one example.* Try to explain, how you will, but "WE THE SHEEPLE" just let 'em keep doing it. The good 'ol *"BOHICA!!"* (For those of you military folk, you know what this means.)

And I was not directing my "We The Sheeple" statement towards anyone on this forum.

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## Sarge47

> I am 1/8th Lakota (on my father's side.) I have studied the native way of life for many years, even before I found out about my heritage. Ever since I was a little boy I have hated what the white man has done to this country and the Native peoples of this land.


Okay guys, no more on Politics, that's a no-no.  Native-dude, I believe you when you say you're 1/8th Lakota. )Soiux, right?  However that leaves you 7/8ths White-man.  Funny how you cling to your claim of the smallest amount of Native-American Blood and completely ignore the rest of who you are.  There are a lot of White people that have stood up for the rights of ALL tribes of Native-Americans as well as that of Blacks, Asian, Latino, etc..  You will get more accomplished with a "positive" approach than a negative one.  BTW, a positive mind-set is an essential part of Survival.  Wouldn't you agree? :Cool:

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## HOP

Nativedude I am 1/8th earthling and 7/8 sheepdog i ain't no sheep I ain't no victim and I beleive in the constitution of the United States I think politicians beleieve that we are al to stupid to do any thing but vote I have belonged to orginazations that confront these politicians with their voting record in public but I beleive that no one on this board has any stroke with the goverment  I t tok a long time for me to come to these conclusions but I am steadfast in my beleifs my views are conservative but I recognize no party. I practice conservation of rescorces as I can i put about 150 miles on my truck every 3 months and that is mostly a trip to the doctor I even have a cart to hook my canoe to my bicycle i do all right supplementing my food supply and collecting nuts and beries  and a few herbs I do these things because I want to I can afford junk food and occasionaly do but prefer to waste my money on guns and knifes and such. Peace and love out . Nativedude I have to say you realy have a lot of god info so please share it.

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## trax

If we alll get to meet I'm gonna scratch HOP behind the ear...he'll follow me anywhere for that...

----------


## Nativedude

Yes Sarge, a PMA is the #1 most important rule in a survival situation. I wasn't trying to stir the pot, I was simply voicing my opinion.  :Smile: 

There are a lot of good people here, that includes FVR. It is ok to disagree, everybody does, but I don't appreciate being called names. We're all adults here. . .right?  :Confused: 

I enjoy reading the threads, seeing how people do things differently, and have many different ideas. I enjoy learning new things as well!  :Wink: 

As I stated previously, I enjoy talking with folks of the same ilk as I. People whom love the outdoors, like living primitively (off the grid or semi-off the grid,) and others whom in spirit share the camp fire of Mother Nature.

_You are all welcome to my camp fire any time!!_  :Big Grin:

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## Beo

Well well... gone a couple days and looky what happens  :Big Grin:  Okay now for my 2cents  :Big Grin: 
Native dude if ya don't like America hike your azz on outta here, I ain't no frogg'n sheep and I live in the suburbs of Cincinnati Ohio, but I bet if I drag your azz out into the woods I'd have you cry'n in two days, FVR can hold his own and then some in the wilderness be it mountains of Ga, or Canada, or the frig'n Rockies. He's a good man, Trax I would take anywhere without a doubt. As for the rest well you know cause there is in a another thread on that. Read them and learn of the people you talk about, and as far as being 1/8 Lakota... ha haaa. So the fu*k what, try taking your 1/8 azz onto a res. and see how far that gets you. Matter of fact ask any of the Native Americans here on this site what that makes you, probably say a wannabe native. Ask my friend Medicine Wolf who lives on the Northern Cheyenne res. in Montana. 
Point of fact you're an American, pay the same as us for gas, and have the same government so your in the same flock of sheep as the rest of us. Now suck on that son and go play with your sling shot.
Beo,
P.S. just my opinion and I do think you have some good input and conversations.  :Big Grin:

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## MedicineWolf

I come from a tribal people, the entire tribe is my family in the way we look out for each other and take care of each other as a whole they are my people just as an Irish American has his peole the Irish, I am a Native American (Cheyenne full blooded), and I served my country proudly and went to war for my country. Being 1/8th Lakota is nice to have in your gene pool, part of your heritage, but you are still a white man. Nothing wrong with that but you are not Native American, your American. To be Native American (although what does that mean, as I am Cheyenne and nothing more than Cheyenne) the goverment says you have to have so much Native American blood in you. Pffft, if you were born to a Native American family then you are Native American, If your mother was Native American and your Father was white, black, hispanic, asian, or whatever (or vice versa), you are half Native American and welcome to the tribe and family, anything else is not pure Native American in my tribes eyes.
But these are just how the people of my tribe view things. Being adopted is also becoming a part of my people regardless of your color. If the Lakota tribe accepts you then you are part of the tribe and that is how your people do things. Nothing wrong with any of this it stems from a culture that was here loooong before your white ancestors trod onto our lands and took what they wanted by force, when greeted friendly by the Native Americans. Just my thoughts and opinions don't mean to offend anyone, and this doesn't mean I don't love my white neighbors and brothers any less, we are all one people under God.

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## Sarge47

> I come from a tribal people, the entire tribe is my family in the way we look out for each other and take care of each other as a whole they are my people just as an Irish American has his peole the Irish, I am a Native American (Cheyenne full blooded), and I served my country proudly and went to war for my country. Being 1/8th Lakota is nice to have in your gene pool, part of your heritage, but you are still a white man. Nothing wrong with that but you are not Native American, your American. To be Native American (although what does that mean, as I am Cheyenne and nothing more than Cheyenne) the goverment says you have to have so much Native American blood in you. Pffft, if you were born to a Native American family then you are Native American, If your mother was Native American and your Father was white, black, hispanic, asian, or whatever (or vice versa), you are half Native American and welcome to the tribe and family, anything else is not pure Native American in my tribes eyes.
> But these are just how the people of my tribe view things. Being adopted is also becoming a part of my people regardless of your color. If the Lakota tribe accepts you then you are part of the tribe and that is how your people do things. Nothing wrong with any of this it stems from a culture that was here loooong before your white ancestors trod onto our lands and took what they wanted by force, when greeted friendly by the Native Americans. Just my thoughts and opinions don't mean to offend anyone, and this doesn't mean I don't love my white neighbors and brothers any less, we are all one people under God.


I'm a "Native American" too!  I was born an American and the only tribe I have in my blood is Irish/German.  I told my heritage to a person once and they asked me if that meant that half of me wanted to take over the world but the ever half was too drunk?  :Big Grin:   Anyway, it's okay to "side" with "native Americans", however calling yourself one when the blood line is very minimal at best is silly.  It might even be an insult.  I see nothing wrong in honoring them by learning their old ways, but let's face it, 1/8th means you're a white guy.  I went to an Indian "Pow-Wow" once in Colorado.  My wife has some Indian blood in her veins and she wanted to go.  We saw another lady there, obviously very white, trying to pass herself off as a "Native American".  One of the real Native-American women came over and talked to us.  She asked our heritage and I told her.  When she heard that I was white she smiled and said something to me that I'll never forget. "You are very honest, and that is so refreshing.  Many come here who pretend to be like us but are not."  (At this point she indicated the white woman trying to pass herself off as red.)  "Welcome and enjoy your visit."  Still can't get the pattern of those drums and chants/songs out of my head.  Had a great time.  :Cool:

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## Beo

Hey Sarge, being born here is an American just not native (well your culture or heritage or something like that) Medicine Wolf often goes into rants like that when the subject comes up should've seen him one time a blond haired blue eyed guy said he was Cherokee (man what a battle that was, poor blondy), but your heritage is Irish American, mine too  :Big Grin:  Actualy my family comes from Galway a port town on the western coast. They came over in mid-twenties although some came over earlier.

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## FVR

WOPLOCK here.LOL..........

I was asked Friday "are you a real Indian" while dressed in my buckskins at the local school.  I told them no.  Was asked to make the rounds K, 1st, and 2nd grades and talk about bows, arrows, fire making, clothes, and indian lore.  Kids are smart now day, I even learned some stuff.

At the pow wows, rendezvous, and arts/rock shows I use to get a little grief from Cherokee young men who thought I was trying to portray them, I howeve was not.  They got over it once we started to talk.

Biggest compliment I ever got was from an old Cherokee medicine man.  This old silver haired man came up to me, looked at my bows and arrows, and asked me why I called my medicine bags that I had made good luck bags.  I simply told him that since I am not a medicine man, not even a Native American, how can I sell medicine bags?  He smiled and picked up one of my arrows.  We talked, he told me that he was glad that I was keeping the tradition alive, making my wares from real sinew, turkey feather, and stone points.  He then walked away.

I asked one of the young guys who he was, and was informed that he was a Cherokee medicine man.  I was like WOW!

I have been studying Native American lore since I was 8 years old.  It has done me well.

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## Stealth

none of this matters.

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## Beo

Matters to us  :Stick Out Tongue:  so pfffft to you...jk

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## Beo

Politics schmolotics, keep ranting and running your suck holes... lol... i love this banter. 
Freedom of press and speach Sarge!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blah Blah Bah  :Big Grin:  Anyway i'm 1/8th smartazz and 
1/5th dontgivashee-it tribe so who cares. I have friends and relatives who are Native American (like real full blooded ones) so what, I don't say "these are my Native American friends" or "this is my Native American brother-in-law" they just are... ya know, their my friends and family.

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## trax

Well, like I mentioned in a previous post, I've got some Indian ancestry, but mostly Irish and Scottish, fortunately the Canadian government in another stroke of bureaucratic brilliance labelled anyone of native ancestry as "aboriginal" so I can call myself that if I want or call myself Canadian...wow, go figure....I'm reminded of the Dakota elder a few years ago who told off some of his "warriors" that basically like FVR said, the people who keep the way of life alive are the ones that he considers his people.

I don't think any of it is terribly relevant to the forums here. I do a lot of things the "Indian way" because I prefer it, plain and simple. Anyone getting their panties in a knot, take a deep breath and remember what we logged in here for.

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## Smok

Man you guys can really tear it up some times and  even though I half I'll never bring it up again ...but here a funny one years ago will shoveling AC I was asked if I was Nat. yes I said . He asked what tribe ? Well sometimes a guy just can not resist . MeanyHoe I said .    :EEK!: I never meet any one from your tribe . I said all of this man are in my tribe . He never got it    :Mad: . ...MeanyHoe is short for a small backhoe ...O well I gush you had to be there... :Big Grin:

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## Nativedude

Yes MedicineWolf the Lakota accept me as one of their own. My great-grandmother was well known amongst the Lakota. When I showed them proof of my relation to her they readily accepted me into the tribal nation. White Eagle (my elder guide,) and his son's (now my blood-brothers,) have taken me in and taught me a lot about the Native ways. White Eagle has named me "White Bear." I have been on many reservations and participated in sweat lodges, medicine rituals, buffalo hunts, and participated & taught at different Pow-Wow's & Tribal Nation gatherings. I have been on 3 seal hunts with the Inuit people in Nunavut.

As White Eagle stated to me: *"Being and living as Native people do, is not only in the blood, but in the heart"*




> I come from a tribal people, the entire tribe is my family in the way we look out for each other and take care of each other as a whole they are my people just as an Irish American has his peole the Irish, I am a Native American (Cheyenne full blooded), and I served my country proudly and went to war for my country. Being 1/8th Lakota is nice to have in your gene pool, part of your heritage, but you are still a white man. Nothing wrong with that but you are not Native American, your American. To be Native American (although what does that mean, as I am Cheyenne and nothing more than Cheyenne) the goverment says you have to have so much Native American blood in you. Pffft, if you were born to a Native American family then you are Native American, If your mother was Native American and your Father was white, black, hispanic, asian, or whatever (or vice versa), you are half Native American and welcome to the tribe and family, anything else is not pure Native American in my tribes eyes.
> But these are just how the people of my tribe view things. Being adopted is also becoming a part of my people regardless of your color. If the Lakota tribe accepts you then you are part of the tribe and that is how your people do things. Nothing wrong with any of this it stems from a culture that was here loooong before your white ancestors trod onto our lands and took what they wanted by force, when greeted friendly by the Native Americans. Just my thoughts and opinions don't mean to offend anyone, and this doesn't mean I don't love my white neighbors and brothers any less, we are all one people under God.

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## HOP

We strive to become what we dream and nativedude except for the hate part you posted you have dreamed well.

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## flandersander

In canada, the rules are much less strict. my mother was 1/8 iroquois and my dad was german. so i guess i'm 1/16 iroquois. i can get my native rights certificat. i choose not to because i believe that it is wrong. so to sum up what i am saying, canada has very many loopholes and loose rules.

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## marberry

that was the most interesting discussion iv read on this sight yet. id be in america but i dont wana have 2 pay medical bills lol.

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## Sam

I thought we all were humans first, and the rest of how we see ourselves followed.
I love hearing people telling me all about how I oppressed them or their race. I'm from Mississippi and have a little drawl to my speech and blue eyes and some blonde hair.
 My Folks came here from Ireland and the Ukrane. My grandparents did not get here untill
the 1930's. So my 'people' did not screw any one over My Ukranian side out ran the purges
and labor camps. My Irish side just wanted to live a better life. So why do I gotta hear about racisim and theft of lands. Please explain this to me. 
 And what ever happened to being plain old AMERICAN?

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## flandersander

thats a good question. the walking book of totally useless knowledge that i am i don't know the answer to that one. I think the fact that nowadays if your skin color is different it seems that you have to hang out with people that have the same skin color as you. this is just a shot in the dark but does anybody agree that skin color really doesn't matter?

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## Beo

Of couse skin color doesn't matter, I'm married to a beautiful African/American woman who is my heart, I don't see her skin color, I see her. I am Irish American because my family came from Ireland (Erin GO Bragh!!!) and they got here in the Mid 1920s, struggled to make ends meet and have grown ever since. But I'm Irish American even though I was born here, in Texas. My family is close knit family and do alot together, but in the end I am just a plain ole American guy.

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## Beo

I still want one of them 3 foot long wompom belts, them are great.

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## Beo

By the way Sarge, this a not a political rant its an ancestry rant so lets keep it going.

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## Rick

My family (two brothers) came here in 1641 aboard the Charitas from Stockholm, Sweden. They settled in New Sweden, which is the Chester-Philadelphia area today, as part of the Swedish West Indian Company. Axell was a soldier and Oloff (my direct ancestor) was a mill builder. Oloff was one of four named as a magistrate in 1658 and became a judge of the first court of the new world. He is listed in the North American. So we've been slinking around the woods for quite a bit.

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## trax

and _obviously_ skin  color doesn't matter to Rick...Twinkies are the same color as Simpson's (hey this could explain the dough..I mean Doh!)

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## Lost Lebowski

TOM BROWN I SAY AGAIN TOM BROWN! ANyone serious about Bushcraft MUST have all of the books in his series. Al the basic traps, snares, fishing and hunting tecniques are there. For instence...forming a channel with sticks posted into a stream to funnel fish, frogs, and turtles into a tiny shallow holding area so you can bash them, spear them, or catch them with your hands. 

Why fish with a piece of bone hook when you have dynamite?

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## Rick

(Homeland Security writing furiously)

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## nell67

> TOM BROWN I SAY AGAIN TOM BROWN! ANyone serious about Bushcraft MUST have all of the books in his series. Al the basic traps, snares, fishing and hunting tecniques are there. For instence...forming a channel with sticks posted into a stream to funnel fish, frogs, and turtles into a tiny shallow holding area so you can bash them, spear them, or catch them with your hands. 
> 
> Why fish with a piece of bone hook when you have dynamite?


Because its illegal to "fish" with dynamite????

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## Lost Lebowski

Touche` Cliche`! I dig ur stuff man!
A coward dies a thousand deaths. The brave but one!

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## nell67

DUDE!!! I am NOT a man :Mad:  How many lives did you say you have left???

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## Rick

You're lost, Lost and it's a slippery slope.

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## crashdive123

Go get him Nell.  When you're done, send what's left over to the intro pages so we can find out a bit about him.  For now, where's my popcorn?

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## nell67

Ggggggggrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!,lmao!

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## Rick

Lost, you might want to go to the introductions section and actually introduce yourself. That's generally the way it works. Give us some information about yourself.

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## Beo

Lost Lebowski I have the entire collection by Tom Brown Jr. but also 98* and a few others. Books do not make the woodsman, skills and practice do. Books are a learning tool nothing more.

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## FVR

Tom Brown Brown Shrown, who needs a freak'n book.

Ya read it once and then use it for the fire or toilet paper.  Make sure you crumple it up a few times, makes it softer on the butt.


Wow, I completely missed the color discussion.  Ahhh, just as well.  I'm a Whoplock, married a Russian, have an African American son and a German daughter.

Yeh, we get looks and stares from everybody.

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## canid

:sidestep:
ok then.
to the original poster:
i am a bowyer and fletcher. i have a thread a little bit back on the construction of a selfbow from green [unseasoned, a poor choice for bows] sitka alder [a poor bow wood], dried only a few days and constructed with only a knife in a few hours. it is perfectly servicable for small to medium game and still holding up to the breaking in period. 

the problem is in knowing the qualities a decent bow needs, and the proces involved in making it efficient and accurate [tillering] so that it works like a bow, and not a 'stick lobber'. a decent home-made self bow for small game like i used to make when i was a child draws like a moose and shoots like a mouse, so to speak, and will fatigue rapidly with changes in moisture and with use. now i can make a selfbow in a day or so [if i had a kife and a fire] that i could take deer with.

i certainly agree that making a bow [and knowing that you need to tune it to the proper spine weight] is the sort of thing to learn before you find yourself needing to hunt with it, if at all possible.

if you search google for "bowyering", "tillering" and "self bows" you will find more than you might even care to learn. if you would like advice after that point on making primitive bow, myself and probably others here have some experience we're willing to share.

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## nell67

A Whoplock FVR?? Thats a new one on me :Big Grin:  as far as the color discussion,uummmm ,I think someone forgot we are all crayons out of the same box called life before they shot off their mouth.

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## canid

not me; i'm a sharpie...

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## nell67

> not me; i'm a sharpie...


Nah,you just think you are sharp(ie)LOL

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## canid

no, like crayons, i now come in every color, i'm just harder to get rid of dontchaknow

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## nell67

> no, like crayons, i now come in every color, i'm just harder to get rid of dontchaknow


Ah yes,I have a 21 month old grandson,I know this very well,the poor walls tell an interesting story,I just haven't deciphered it yet!

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## marberry

im 1/2 british on my dads side , 1/2 chech and 1/2 polish on my moms side (with some itallian blood too though i dont know where it came from) my great great grandfather on my dads side was royalty when he came to canada. now my moms side was pesantry , my grandfather and all his brothers killed soviets and nazis there entire youth untill they came to canada in 1959. my grandfathers one brother would always tell me about how he would set beartraps on all the roads and watch as soilders lost there feet, poison there food , he told my one time he was hiding under a bush with a single shot blot action .22 , he saw a soilder and shot his knee from 100 yards, waited for more to came and save him , then kill them too, the most dangerous person iv ever met.  on my dads side in the 1600's we were pirates or something im not rly sure , but my moms side is bloody enough for the both of em.

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## Sarge47

> TOM BROWN I SAY AGAIN TOM BROWN! ANyone serious about Bushcraft MUST have all of the books in his series. Al the basic traps, snares, fishing and hunting tecniques are there. For instence...forming a channel with sticks posted into a stream to funnel fish, frogs, and turtles into a tiny shallow holding area so you can bash them, spear them, or catch them with your hands. 
> 
> Why fish with a piece of bone hook when you have dynamite?


!st off just let me say that there are mnay authors of "Bushcraft" type books out there:  Mors Kochanski, Cody Lundin, J. Wayne Fears, John "Lofty" Wiseman, 
Paul Tarwell...And any older Boyscout Handbook and Field Manual teaches many of the same things you just mentioned.  I checked out one of Tom Brown's books from the library but didn't care much for it.  it taught the same thing the others teach.  Also I 2nd what Beowulf posted! :Cool:

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## Rick

1st off. Where the heck you been? Good to see you back.

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## nell67

Yea,this time,I agree with Rick :Big Grin:

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## Rick

This time? What the?

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## nell67

Just kidding,dont have a cow man! :Big Grin:

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## Sourdough

> Just kidding,dont have a cow man!


He Da' Wolf of course he is going to have a cow, Ha Ha Ha :Stick Out Tongue:

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## trax

> TOM BROWN I SAY AGAIN TOM BROWN! ANyone serious about Bushcraft MUST have all of the books in his series. Al the basic traps, snares, fishing and hunting tecniques are there. For instence...forming a channel with sticks posted into a stream to funnel fish, frogs, and turtles into a tiny shallow holding area so you can bash them, spear them, or catch them with your hands. 
> 
> Why fish with a piece of bone hook when you have dynamite?


I have a post-secondary education, so I can read fairly well. I just wanted to point that out because I want to add: I know how to fish, hunt, trap, survive in near-Arctic winter cold, and 80-100F summer heat and I have a couple other survival skills too. I've never read Tom Brown's or anyone else's survival books.

I know how to use dynamite, I've never used it to catch fish. It's always amazed me how people get all pee-their-pants excited about how many dead fish float to the surface, they have no idea how many other dead fish sink to the bottom. It's mindless and I've discouraged several of our younger members from attempting it because I've also seen what can go wrong using dynamite.

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## GVan

> Ok in a worst case scenario how would you make a bow and arrow to hunt?


In a worse case scenario I'd use the same technique as we did as kids.
I'd start with a strong tree branch or piece of wood about three to five feet long.  I'd then tie my boot lace to one end, after notching the wood, and the then notch the other end.
Next bend the bow and tie the other end of the dowstring, boot lace, to the other end  thus creating a functional bow.

Now as far as an arrow is concerned, any long, streight,pointed stick or rod should suffice.  You should be sure that your intended arrow is longer than the bow's draw depth. 

This should give you a survival bow and arrow to fish with or even as a means of personal protection from both animal and human predators.

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## GVan

> I have a post-secondary education, so I can read fairly well. I just wanted to point that out because I want to add: I know how to fish, hunt, trap, survive in near-Arctic winter cold, and 80-100F summer heat and I have a couple other survival skills too. I've never read Tom Brown's or anyone else's survival books.
> 
> I know how to use dynamite, I've never used it to catch fish. It's always amazed me how people get all pee-their-pants excited about how many dead fish float to the surface, they have no idea how many other dead fish sink to the bottom. It's mindless and I've discouraged several of our younger members from attempting it because I've also seen what can go wrong using dynamite.



My friend, I have to agree most hole heartedly with you on this matter.
Catfish, frogs, turtles, molesks, and a great number of other creatures, all of which could become future food for you,  GONE! with just one stupid act.

If you want to blow something up, then go and join E. O. D..

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