# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  Growing your own Food

## Chris

If the worse happens and you need to supply your own food, stores can last awhile, but it'd be better, assuming no contamination, to grow your own.

Which foods though?

You'll want a complete nutrition profile, you'll need your vitamins. So sweet potatoes would be a good choice. Very hardy, extremely high in vitamins, and I read that the first jamestown (or maybe it was the pilgrims) more or less survived on sweet potatoes the first year. They also provide a good amount of calories.

Asparagus doesn't provide a whole lot of calories, but they are a perennial vegetable, when most are annuals. Not having to worry about saving and protecting seeds every year has got to be worth something.

For fruits or berries I like raspberries. They are very hardy, will tolerate poor soil, spread like mad, and produce all summer long. You will get a good harvest with minimal effort. 

Then of course there are nuts. Nuts last a long time, and pack a good amount of protein and essential fatty acids. Planting a nut tree would definitely be a good investment.

----------


## mamab

So, Chris, how many ways do you know of to fix sweet potatoes? If you were in an emergency situation, you'd get pretty bored with them being made like mashed. And I don't think you'd really be able to make candied.  :Wink:

----------


## tater03

I don't know all that many ways to make sweet potatoes but I do love them so this would be a good thing for me to have in case of an emergency. I do have my own garden but I just never thought about picking things that would be good in an emergency.

----------


## Chris

> So, Chris, how many ways do you know of to fix sweet potatoes? If you were in an emergency situation, you'd get pretty bored with them being made like mashed. And I don't think you'd really be able to make candied.


It isn't really an emergency, more like a disaster. Like nuclear war. Think like that Jericho show on CBS, where you can no longer rely on anyone else for any of life's necessities.  And if you're trying to live I don't think boredom with food is going to enter you mind.

However, my favorite way to make sweet potatoes is mashed with a bunch of cinnamon. You can also make a dough out of them to make bread products.

----------


## tinystar

> It isn't really an emergency, more like a disaster. Like nuclear war. Think like that Jericho show on CBS, where you can no longer rely on anyone else for any of life's necessities.  And if you're trying to live I don't think boredom with food is going to enter you mind.
> 
> However, my favorite way to make sweet potatoes is mashed with a bunch of cinnamon. You can also make a dough out of them to make bread products.


Mm, sweet potato bread sounds fantastic to me.  Sweet potatos aren't bad, though I would need an ample amount of sugar, haha.  But given the circumstances, I'd be happy just to have food.

----------


## Minwaabi

> It isn't really an emergency, more like a disaster. Like nuclear war. Think like that Jericho show on CBS, where you can no longer rely on anyone else for any of life's necessities.  And if you're trying to live I don't think boredom with food is going to enter you mind.
> 
> However, my favorite way to make sweet potatoes is mashed with a bunch of cinnamon. You can also make a dough out of them to make bread products.


No offense, but unless there is new research to the contrary, you generally should not be worried about nuclear war.  You really have three options: (a) you are in a place where you won't notice (someplace like the middle of the Amazon), (b) you die in the explosion, (c) you die horribly days, weeks, or months later from radiation sickness.  Our modern bombs send out a lot more radiation than they used to and it doesn't go away in a day or a rainstorm like it does on TV.  (Of course that does not mean a "minor" nuclear attack could not be survivable far far away).

----------


## mamab

If there's a nuclear war and you do survive, isn't the ground going to be radiated and therefore not capable of producing edible food? Your water supplies would also be contaminated. I don't know what you'd do in that situation, and I hope none of us ever have to find out.

----------


## Minwaabi

> If there's a nuclear war and you do survive, isn't the ground going to be radiated and therefore not capable of producing edible food? Your water supplies would also be contaminated. I don't know what you'd do in that situation, and I hope none of us ever have to find out.


That's exactly my point.  If the ground is that radiated so are you.  If you have ever known anyone to go through Chemotherapy you know what you get to look forward to.  The only difference is that these won't be regulated doses so it will probably be much worse and no meds to really help you out.  Like you said, hopefully none of us have to ever find out.

----------


## tater03

Well I would have to agree I hope that this never happens. But to get back to the sweet potatoes. I never heard of sweet potato bread before. That actually sounds really good.

----------


## Chris

> No offense, but unless there is new research to the contrary, you generally should not be worried about nuclear war. You really have three options: (a) you are in a place where you won't notice (someplace like the middle of the Amazon), (b) you die in the explosion, (c) you die horribly days, weeks, or months later from radiation sickness. Our modern bombs send out a lot more radiation than they used to and it doesn't go away in a day or a rainstorm like it does on TV. (Of course that does not mean a "minor" nuclear attack could not be survivable far far away).


Where do you think most of your food comes from? 

Look at the spinach problems from last summer, almost the country's entire spinach supply was lost because a handful of plants in California shut down.

If there was a major catastrophe, such as nuclear war, or some huge environmental disaster, where communication and transportation was lost. Most areas would suddenly find themselves in a food shortage because most areas rely on other areas to grow their food. California, Mexico, Florida for most foods. The midwest for grains. 

Consider even something as simple as a power outtage. We had that power outtage a few years ago that took out the entire north east all the way to Michigan. 50 million + people. And it was an accident. What if rerrorists launched attacked simutaniously against power stations across the country. Without electricity you would lose your utilities, communication, refridgeration, transportion & food harvesting or processing would suffer. 

None of these scenarios are that likely, but the point of disaster preparedness is to be prepared for the unlikely.

----------


## Minwaabi

Sorry, that was not my point at all.  I was merely saying that in the event of nuclear *war*, you would not survive the *war* part of things and so we should focus on what you are now talking about - terrorist attacks and the like.  We can survive a few nukes going off.  We can NOT survive lots of them.  Some scientists even doubt the availability of oxygen in such an occasion (all fires including explosions of the nuclear variety convert oxygen into non-useful CO2).

----------


## Chris

Oh certainly... although the issue of surviving a nuclear winter is also one that could be discussed.  Could you handle 4 years without sunlight?

----------


## Minwaabi

Oh that gives me a horrible thought.  What would global temperature do after a nuclear war?  A nuclear bomb is actually hotter than the surface of the sun.  I distinctly remember calculating the atmosphere generated by a nuclear bomb *after* it *cooled down* to the *temperature of the surface of the sun* in a Thermodynamics class.  (Words that should never go in a sentence together).  If several went off you could probably dramatically change the weather patterns.  Additionally you would change the gas components of the air and change our atmosphere.  This might actually be good for tropical and some temperate plants, but animals (like us) might have a real hard time adjusting.

----------


## Minwaabi

Also Chris has a great idea there.  Suppose we are cut off from the sun for 4 or 5 years.  (Either by nuclear winter, volcanic winter, or the dust cloud from an asteroid or comet impacting the surface of the earth).  How could we survive?  Note:  of course we are not actually cut off from the sun, sunlight is only reduced, but it is reduced to alarming low levels.  Many plants and most crops I think would fail (though not all).  What do you guys think?  What food grows well in limited sunlight?

----------


## Chris

Mushrooms can grow in darkness... not really filling though.  Plants can grow in artificial sunlight as well, it isn't great, but it works.  A wind turbine powering an artificial greenhouse. 

There are also seed vaults all over the world buried deep in the ground to make sure plant life can survive such catastrophes.

Too, remember that even with cloud cover some light/radiation comes through. So many plants are adapted to growing in the shade. The only edible one that comes to mind is blueberries, but I'm sure there are many.

----------


## mamab

I hadn't thought of the possibility of the sun being blocked for a long period of time. I mean, I know that it happens occasionally with volcanic debris, but I hadn't thought about long term. Guess we all need to be hording our canned goods.  :Wink:

----------


## arppt01

Getting prepared for an extreme situation requires a lot of experience and planning. You never know which one will help you in extreme situation.

----------


## echos

I have a great supply of soil for indoor growing. So , I hope it would be good , if the worst happenend.I grow all my own salad greens inside in the winter. I would just keep going, until , I couldn`t.

----------


## rubybeetle

I wonder how difficult (and expensive) it would be to have an underground green house.

----------


## BSM

Ha, you brought up the point I wanted to research for a story I'm working on.  I'm trying to determine, given a near unlimited source of money, could one build an underground greenhouse capable of supporting a human population of any size?  I know there are many people who are very sucessful at growing Marajuana inside under UV lamps.  I'm not interested in growing the drug, but, sadly, these are the sort of people who would probably have the most practical knowledge about growing plants indoors.  Would the waste produced by the human population be enough to keep the plants soil enriched?  Would there be enough plants to keep oxygen levels in the underground facility breathable?  Could enough water be reclaimed to keep a sealed underground resovoir of water at safe levels?  Both assuming a total cutoff from the outside world, both air and water.  Is this even physically possible?  Any speculation would be extremely helpful for inspiration's sake.
Thanks,
BSM

----------


## Chris

Yes, it is possible, but there would be other problems.

For instance a lack of vitamin D, human beings need exposure to sunlight to make vitamin D.

Also, plants grown under lights are slightly different than plants grown in sun and they may lack key vitamins.

Then of course, you'd need electricity.

The practice is generally referred to as hydroponics. 

Solid human waste isn't a good fertilizer as well. There is too great of a risk of pathogens if it is used to fertilize food crops, it would need to be heavily processed. Urine is sterile though and would be fine if it is diluted and the human making it doesn't eat a lot of salt.

----------


## BSM

As for lacking key vitamins, we only know what the bare minimum is needed to avoid diseases like rickets and the such.  In fact, that's what the daily-recommended value is.  The absolute minimum needed.  As for what we should eat, nutrition is complicated subject.  First of all, each individual normally has slightly different nutritional needs (male, female; old, young; etc).  Secondly, the FDA hasn't been able to agree on it.  Look at the old food pyramid.  They stood by it for decades, telling a person that is how they should eat.  Now they have changed it, telling people the old system leads to obesity (too many Carbohydrates, i.e. grains).  Which, in effect, is an admission to not knowing what they were doing in the first place.  Not exactly confidence inspiring.  But all of that is besides the point.  There are viable ecosystems that exist without sunlight around volcanic vents on the ocean floor.  So viable, they support a food chain big enough to have crabs on top (edible?).  Obviously, this ecosystem would be near impossible to recreate in an aquarium, and just as obviously not productive enough to justify the space and energy needs to house it in an underground vault.  Again, this, while interesting, is not directly pertinent as well.  (I wander, sorry)  

As for electricity, I don't see any reason windmills wouldn't work on the service.  Irradiated or not, the wind would still turn the turbines and create electricity which could be sent underground.  Problems would range from maintenance to possible scavenging of the equipment topside by survivors.  Also, if someone had the proper resources, the could create a falling tube, through which an artesian well could be allowed to bubble over the top, fall through, and hit a water wheel at the bottom.  The problem obviously being disposing of the used water.

As for human feces being a good fertilizer isn't necessarily pertinent.  The object not being comfort, but survival.  Many countries use human feces to fertilize crops relatively safely (China comes to mind).

The question would be if the nutritional deficiencies would kill the occupants before they reached childbearing age. (Thus eliminating the possibility of long term survival, this not even taking in account the psychological effects of living one's entire life underground in close proximity to others).

I'm not particularly sure how many kWh one would need per month to support the facility.  Being underground would keep the ambient temperature about 55 degrees Fahrenheit, which would mean some heating would be needed.  Thankfully, this is true regardless of the topside temperature, so Nuclear winter wouldn't necessarily increase power demands.

I'm looking for brainstorming.  Good ideas, bad ideas.  Hypotheses.  Crack-pot theories, anything.  The more practical the better, but anything is appreciated.  Remember, I'm not looking for a perfect survival.  So, lets say if the living circumstances shorten the population's average life span to 38.  That's okay.  As long as it is sustainable, and survival is possible.

Thanks Chris, (and anyone else who wants to jump in)
BSM

----------


## vf/mo

Heres a website for a girl that lives in NY and has a pretty elaborate garden in her back yard.
http://gardengirltv.com/index.html

Check out the video section.

----------


## marberry

im proud to say im prepaired for WW3 , ill immeditially go into the wilderness of northern manitoba (almost no people there) and survive off the land and the 2 years worth of jerky i have stockpiled lol. jery is THE best survival food , it goes for years without going bad , is easy to make , and only takes 6 hours to make (if you have the meat)

----------


## trax

Hey marcraft, nice to meet a fellow Manitoban. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of room left up north (I grew up there) that we won't be tripping over each other's survival camps. I just wanted to add a couple of things...

1. Pemmican, it'll keep you alive for along time, easy to make too
 2. Underground farming, the mines in Flin Flon are being used to produce medical marijuana.

----------


## wareagle69

i think that if there was a nuclear attack it would be in such a small scale that maybe only hundreds of miles would be affected, the collapse of infrastucture would be the true disaster look a 911 what it did to the economy, that is my worry ,that and all the people who have not learned and prepared for such an event, all the naysayers say i am paranoid but it has already taken place ie the blackoput and 911 what if it were on a much larger scale, my fear is not dying, who knows maybe i would not want to survive something like that although curiosity does get the best of me, how would i do what would the world be like, but my worry is for my family if something was to happen to me, myself i could dissapear into the bush,maybe to find more likeminded people to survive with but i know my extended family could not deal with that, and as a man i must protect my family to the end..no matter what the personal cost may be to me


          rangers lead the way.

----------


## mangyhyena

Once we obtain our homestead I don't intend to plant anything that isn't edible.  I want our property to produce as much food as possible so we can get into canning and preserving.  And I want to cut our grocery bill down as much as I can.  To my way of thinking, we just continue planting food-bearing plants a little at a time, as money allows.  Sooner or later we'll be growing enough to see us through rough times.

I do love sweet potatoes.  I'll have to throw those into the mix as well.

----------


## LakeLady

Gardening is not my forte but I'm thinking that the time has come to start learning. Can I grow food in a sun room during the winter?

----------


## LakeLady

OH................and if so what?

----------


## trax

Pretty much whatever you can make fit, I think. You sure could grow a whack of berries, I think. But there's probably someone here who actually knows, so I'll just shut up now. I garden about as well as I perform brain surgery (don't ask my patients, they're not talking  :Smile:  )

----------


## LakeLady

Sounds like my garden experience....LOL

----------


## trax

> Sounds like my garden experience....LOL


Yeah, twice in my life I've had a place where I thought I could give it a try

"How hard can it be?" I asked myself naively.

Two weeks later, staring at a field of sunbaked clay and weeds...hmmmm, harder than it looks. My Dad was an awesome gardener and I figured I'd get some kind of genetic fallout or something...no chance. But then, I'm a better hunter than he was so I guess there's a tradeoff, LOL

----------


## spiritman

> Sounds like my garden experience....LOL


Sounds like my brain surgery experience...

----------


## wareagle69

i have spent hundreds of dollars stockpiling food and other esentails over the years only to come to what the alcoholics refer to as a spiritual awakening of sorts i guess maybe err well okay what i think is what happens to all my preparedness if while at work my house burns down(main reason wife not allowed to cook anymore)there goes all my preperation.. my latsest craze is learning all about wild edibles plants and mycology. knowledge weighs allot less than packing all that gear around and will get you further in life

  always be prepared

----------


## wareagle69

have a couple of caches around for a few reasons one being which way will i be able to go, i think we covered this in another thread, i know volwest talked about it, my e and e route may be blocked so i have several possible ways, yes i agree the basic staples much be stored then anything else foraged you can work with



   always be prepared

----------


## mangyhyena

What if your house burns down?  Well, can't we always cite things that would put us in a bind no matter how well we prepare.  I'll cite one right now.  You die.  Then what?

OK, so figuring that bad things could happen and there are no guarantees in life, what can you do to increase the odds of your survival?

Multiple sources of essential survival supplies is one good way to start.  You could, for instance, store food not only in your home but in a shed in your yard.  That's two places, at least one of which is likely to survive a fire.  If you're really slick you could place a cheap tin shed with no floor in your yard, go in and dig a hole, and then bury supplies in the ground.  Move the shed once your supplies are safely buried.  Now we're talking three places holding survival supplies and you haven't left your property yet.  Stocking a survival retreat gives you a whole other option.  Or perhaps caching at a survival retreat that is already stocked would be even better.  Now we're talking supplies stashed in 5 places.

You can not guarantee your survival.  All you can do is increase your odds of survival. Obtaining survival skills, survival supplies, survival plans, ect... increases your odds of survival.  Operating from a position of fear is likely to leave your thinking unclear and your reasoning fuzzy at best.  Operating with a can-do attitude based on optimism is the way to keep a cool head with sound reasoning, IMHO.

----------


## marberry

prepairing for disasters is a good hobby as long as you dont take it too far. 

personally i say baked potatoes tast the best , sorta like a salty apple

----------


## coldkill13

Salty apple????? Anyway---I can't do anything without taking it too far.... Maybe I should change my name to " Cold-Overkill13 "

----------


## coldkill13

> However, my favorite way to make sweet potatoes is mashed with a bunch of cinnamon. You can also make a dough out of them to make bread products.


I know you posted this a long time ago but, have you got any good sweet potatoe bread recipes you'd like to share? I cant say I've ever tried it before but it sounds delicious and I'd love to try some! Thanks.

----------


## crashdive123

Here's a couple coldkill

http://www.cooksrecipes.com/bread/sw...ad-recipe.html

http://www.hugs.org/Sweet_Potato_Bread.shtml

http://southernfood.about.com/od/qui...r/bl21102e.htm

http://www.virtualcities.com/ons/sc/m/scm17012.htm

http://www.recipehound.com/Recipes/Recipes2/5848.html

----------


## coldkill13

Thanks! I've got to try some of those.

----------

