# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Hunting with a 9mm

## beetlejuicex3

The 9mm is my favorite handgun caliber to shoot.

I've read some blogs around the net about hunting with the 9mm (handgun) and think it sounds interesting.  But scary.  One of the posts was a gentlemen hunting Javelina.

I bought some doubletap 147 grain +P that cooks along at 1150 ft/sec while toying with the idea.

Thoughts?

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## kyratshooter

The preasures on that round must be astronomical!  Have they elivated 9mm limits to 50,000cpu?  

As far as hunting with the 9mm, if all you are looking at is mass x speed what you have is a +p.38= light .357 load.

.357 in full charge is usually considered marginal for big game.  Those little pigmy pigs is about the largest thing I would go after with a 9mm.

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## hunter63

IMO,
I guess I would check, first, to see if that load was legal to hunt what ever you looking to hunt.
And I guess you could use the 9mm, but then again you "could" row accross the Atlantic, I wouldn't do it.
I have too much respect for any game to not use the proper tool.

Had a sales guy, I used to buy from, lived in Texas, hunted them spears.

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## SARKY

Just as the 5.56 is barely capable of taking down a human with one shot, the 9mm is similarly in that position. Understand, i've seen moose taken with a .22lr pistol. But I sure as heck wouldn't do it or even attempt it except under dire conditions. 
You didn't say what kind of game you plan on hunting with your 9mm.
As most of my big game hunting was done with handguns, I have to say that .357 power is the min. I would go with. My normal caliber for handgun hunting is .41Mag.

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## lucznik

In my neck of the woods...

9mm kills small game just fine, though sometimes with too much damage to the meat on such small critters to be useful.  For this reason, the .22 LR usually is a better choice.

9mm is absolutely illegal for large game. Handguns have to be able to produce 500 ft lbs @ 100 yds to be legal.  No way the 9mm could ever come close.  This threshold can be met with the .357 magnum, but only just barely and not with any current, factory-made ammunition choices. 

I killed an antelope last year with my 4" .357 Mag @ 75 yds. using iron sights.  I was shooting a 180 gr. Hornady XTP over a stiff load of 2400.  It worked just fine and I plan on repeating that again this year, though this time with a 180 gr. Nosler Partition.

Even if it could be legally done, I'm not sure many (if any) of the "service grade" 9mm autos sold today would be capable of the accuracy needed to make such a shot.

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## rwc1969

I wouldn't use one for any game for the reasons already stated.

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## klickitat

I have taken an elk cow at 80 yards with my CZ75 using HST +P 124 grain bullet. The round clipped a rib on the way in, punched her liver and clipped a rib on the way out before lodging behind the shoulder blade. It passed clean through her at 80 yards.
She only went 30 yards before bleeding out.

I have also taken 3 black tail bucks at 20 and 25 yards.

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## lucznik

> I have taken an elk cow at 80 yards with my CZ75 using HST +P 124 grain bullet. The round clipped a rib on the way in, punched her liver and clipped a rib on the way out before lodging behind the shoulder blade. It passed clean through her at 80 yards.
> She only went 30 yards before bleeding out.


That's some pretty fair shootin'.   If it's legal where you live and it works for you, then have at it.

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## klickitat

> That's some pretty fair shootin'.   If it's legal where you live and it works for you, then have at it.


Yeah, a few years back they made it legal to hunt big game with any center fire .30 or bigger in a handgun.

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## sgtdraino

Not to get too far off the topic, but what do you guys think of 9mm versus .40 S&W for hunting? Is one any better/adequate than the other?

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## lucznik

> Not to get too far off the topic, but what do you guys think of 9mm versus .40 S&W for hunting? Is one any better/adequate than the other?


Again, where I live the .40 would be equally illegal as the 9mm for big game hunting and it would also tend to produce the same, (if not more,) non-desirable meat destruction as the 9mm on small game so; it would not be a very ideal choice. It really is hard to beat an accurate .22LR as a small game gun.

I would think that as far as it's actual killing potential, it would not prove to be significantly superior (nor inferior) to the 9mm.  I know a few cops who don't like their .40s because they claim it is a poor penetrator.  Then again, I know a few others who think the .40 is as close to perfect as you can get. 

I also, and with all due deference to klickitat and his CZ75, still don't believe there are very many service autos that are accurate enough to be reasonable hunting guns. The standard 4"@25yds that I always read about in the gun rags as being "on par for this type of gun" and "more than sufficient for the purposes the gun is intended for" and that I see guys bragging about at the gun range are just not good enough for hunting.  In my opinion, a handgun needs to produce consistent groups of absolutely no more than 2" @ 25 yds. to be considered accurate enough for hunting - and even that may be a bit marginal, depending on the animal you are planning to hunt and the distance from which you are willing to take a shot.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

It is unethical to use a 9MM for hunting. I won't dispute the claims made but clean kills over 20 feet would be beyond my capabilities and from what I have seen, most peoples. A big part is the weapons that fire 9 MM. Short barreled hand guns are hard to shoot accurately. There are a few that can but anyone asking such a question would not likely be one of them. Hunters should be encouraged to use proper weapons for clean kills.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

Lucznic, I guess we were typing at the same time. Velocity is a bigger factor to meat damage than caliber and the critical speed seems to be subsonic vs super sonic speeds. This is apparent with my 44 magnum vs my 44 specials. One the specials have vertually no bullet expansion and secondly do not deliver the hydraulic shock the 44 magnum does. With my specials I can eat right up to the bullet hole. Range would be critical factor with 9MM. At close range could do some mangling but not much before it slowed. I never used 9MM to kill anything but used 38 a lot (mostly killing Halibut) and there is not much damage.

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## Rick

.357 magnum is legal for white tail here but not 9mm.

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## lucznik

> Lucznic, I guess we were typing at the same time. Velocity is a bigger factor to meat damage than caliber and the critical speed seems to be subsonic vs super sonic speeds. This is apparent with my 44 magnum vs my 44 specials. One the specials have vertually no bullet expansion and secondly do not deliver the hydraulic shock the 44 magnum does. With my specials I can eat right up to the bullet hole. Range would be critical factor with 9MM. At close range could do some mangling but not much before it slowed. I never used 9MM to kill anything but used 38 a lot (mostly killing Halibut) and there is not much damage.


I agree with you completely about the effects of extra velocity.  

However, my train of thought was that, when talking about small game, the  9mm (or .40S&W, or whatever) is inherently going to damage more meat on say a squirrel or a cottontail than the .22LR simply due to the basic physical size of the bullet.  Even if you can eat right up to the hole, that hole is bigger, hence more meat is lost.  

Now, some will say, "I only head shoot small game" - which is great if you have the skills necessary and a gun capable of doing such.  But, of course, that brings us back around to my problem with service-grade autos and the inherent superiority of the .22LR. 

Now as for taking big game with proper, big bore handguns, I'm in total agreement with you.  However, I will point out that, in such cases, I generally don't care much about a little meat damage.  I like extra velocity as it helps me keep my bullets where they belong at extended ranges and I'll take a quick kill that leaves me little or no tracking to do at the cost of a little bit of meat loss any day.

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## hunter63

I consider my 9mm's as a "retreat round", so like the double stack mags.

When all else fail's, you can turn tail, haul butte, spraying and praying behind you as your heading out.
But that is just me.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

I like having enough velocity to get the job done myself. Even with brain shots it is good to build enough pressure inside skull to damage all the brain. If a portion of the brain is removed it only looses the ability of the part removed, i.e. eyesight, hearing or whatever that portion of the brain governs but the rest continues to work. Brain shots have never failed to put an animal down for me but using slower rounds (like 45 acp) they will often have convulsions till another round is used. I love the 1911 but I wish it shot a hotter round. A brainshot with my 44 and it hits the ground dead.

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## klickitat

I really don't know what to say. There's not much good that could come from defending my position. 

So I will shrug my shoulders and let it be.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> I really don't know what to say. There's not much good that could come from defending my position. 
> 
> So I will shrug my shoulders and let it be.


Oh it can be done, just not by most of us. I hunt with handguns but they are long barreled and suitable calibers.

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## 2dumb2kwit

> The 9mm is my favorite handgun caliber to shoot.
> 
> I've read some blogs around the net about hunting with the 9mm (handgun) and think it sounds interesting.  But scary.  One of the posts was a gentlemen hunting Javelina.
> 
> I bought some doubletap 147 grain +P that cooks along at 1150 ft/sec while toying with the idea.
> 
> Thoughts?


 It's like a fat girl wearing spandex.(Or Rick wearing a thong.) Yeah, you could do it.....but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea. :drink:  LOL

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## klickitat

I also have a Contender with a couple barrels. The one I am itching to take game with this year is the the unported 10" .444 Marlin barrel. It's a rush every time you pull the trigger, especially with heavy loads.

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## Swamprat1958

> It's like a fat girl wearing spandex.(Or Rick wearing a thong.) Yeah, you could do it.....but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea. LOL


I never thought that I would agree with 2dumb on anything  :Big Grin: , but I agree with him on this (especially the mental image of Rick in a thong).  In a survival situation maybe, but never when there are other options.

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## crashdive123

> I never thought that I would agree with 2dumb on anything , but I agree with him on this (especially the mental image of Rick in a thong).  *In a survival situation maybe*, but never when there are other options.


Gee whiz - what are you planning on doing with him? :Scared:  :Scared:  :Scared:

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## Rick

I'm tellin' ya. you gotta watch those southern boys. They got some weird ideas. Is that banjo music?

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## Beans

Rick in a thong is population control. Make him the point--- people would jump off bridges out of windows in  a highrise building to get away..   :whip: 

I can envision it now. Send Rick into a building wearing a thong. No damage done to the building, food left on plates, beer left in the frige, pantries left stocked Just no people.   :Oops: 

Sorta like a stealth weapon.     :Angel:  with just a visual impact.

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## hunter63

> I also have a Contender with a couple barrels. The one I am itching to take game with this year is the the unported 10" .444 Marlin barrel. It's a rush every time you pull the trigger, especially with heavy loads.


I would bet that that is a good example on a "who/what gets up first, you or who/what you shot at," round.
Not a "stop sign gun".

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## klickitat

> I would bet that that is a good example on a "who/what gets up first, you or who/what you shot at," round.
> Not a "stop sign gun".


It's got some wallup but, I don't have any problems with it. I've got a few gun buddies though that are afraid of it.

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## lucznik

> It's got some wallup but, I don't have any problems with it. I've got a few gun buddies though that are afraid of it.


I'd be more than happy to give it a go. 

I'd also love to try one of those new X-frame S&Ws - preferably the .460...

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## Alaskan Survivalist

*I've got the BIG ONE!*

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

45/70 loaded to full case capacity and 575 grain Piledrivers!

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## Swamprat1958

> *I've got the BIG ONE!*45/70 loaded to full case capacity and 575 grain Piledrivers!


That makes my wrist hurt just looking at it!!!!!!!!

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## Swamprat1958

> Gee whiz - what are you planning on doing with him?


I don't plan to do anything with him and I don't even want to think of Rick like that ever again :Thumbup:  :Thumbup:  :Thumbup: !!!

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## klickitat

AS, what make is that scope on your Contender?

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## hunter63

> *I've got the BIG ONE!*
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> 
> 45/70 loaded to full case capacity and 575 grain Piledrivers!




Well, I gotta tell ya, I have a 45/70 barrel for the Handi Rifle, and that isn't too bad for a light gun, BUT....I like it!

Gotta love those Contenders, kinda pricey for me, probably looking at $1200 bucks here, at least.

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## Alaskan Survivalist

> AS, what make is that scope on your Contender?


The Encore is the big brother to the Contender. The scope is a Burris and that Encore it is on is a 270 Winchester. The more I shoot these guns the more I like them. I got good enough with the 45/70 I gave my Marlin Guide gun to a friend. The 410 barrel is the only shotgun I have. I have a ways to go before the 270 replaces my 270 rifle (it shoots 1/2 inch groups) but I can consistently hit the gong at 300 meters at the Birch wood range with the Encore. The gun is much more accurate than I am!

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## hunter63

> ............................... The gun is much more accurate than I am!


LOL, I hear ya, most guns are more accurate that I am.

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## klickitat

> The Encore is the big brother to the Contender. The scope is a Burris and that Encore it is on is a 270 Winchester. The more I shoot these guns the more I like them. I got good enough with the 45/70 I gave my Marlin Guide gun to a friend. The 410 barrel is the only shotgun I have. I have a ways to go before the 270 replaces my 270 rifle (it shoots 1/2 inch groups) but I can consistently hit the gong at 300 meters at the Birch wood range with the Encore. The gun is much more accurate than I am!


Tell me more about the .270 in that barrel. How much are you loosing? Are you cooking your game when you shoot it? I have both the .444 and .223 that were a birthday gift from my wife this year. I wanted the .223 for hunting predators. What game have you taken with both those barrels?

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## Alaskan Survivalist

QUOTE=klickitat;250751]Tell me more about the .270 in that barrel. How much are you loosing? Are you cooking your game when you shoot it? I have both the .444 and .223 that were a birthday gift from my wife this year. I wanted the .223 for hunting predators. What game have you taken with both those barrels?[/QUOTE]

The Encore as not been used as much as it could have been because it has competition from my two main guns that I use almost exclusively. The 270 barrel has not taken any game because I go hunting with my M-77 that is stainless with a synthetic stock and I shoot much better. That may change as I get better with it. I did harvest a Caribou with 45/70. It was not a preconcieved choice but I was carrying it for defensive purposes and the opportunity presented itself. My Ruger Super Redhawk 44, 9 1/2 inch barrel is still my main firearm for defensive use because of quik follow up shot and stainless fares much better in my climate. I have gotten confident with 45/70 and am using it more and more. Now the 410 barrel I use the hell out of! I have just traded off my last 22 rifle and got ride of my other shotguns long ago. Walking the trail into my claim I always arrived with either grouse, spruce hens or ptarmigan. I also use single six for hunting small game.

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## EdD270

greenbeetle, forgive the intrusion of a newbie sharing some thoughts.
I like the 9mm, too, carried one for some years, until the .40 came out. But ballistically it is about a .38+P at best. That's not enough for reliable use on large deer-size animals. It would be OK for coyotes, javelina, rabbits and similar size animals.
As for the .40 S&W, it's better. I have not used it for big game, but have killed javelina with it, shot one through and through end to end. I would think it would do for deer out to 50 yards with a heavy soft-nose bullet, not a hollow point. I like penetration over expansion, and most bullets will expand on the heavy shoulder and rib bones.
Generally, a .357 mag is the smallest I like to hunt with. I've killed mule deer out to 125 yards with my 4" S&W or Ruger, with 158 or 180 gr softnose bullets. 
Check your state's game laws for what is the legal minimum for big game and other hunting in your area. Most states specify some combination of calibre and velocity as minimum allowed in their handgun hunting regs.

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## kx250kev

> The 9mm is my favorite handgun caliber to shoot.
> 
> I've read some blogs around the net about hunting with the 9mm (handgun) and think it sounds interesting.  But scary.  One of the posts was a gentlemen hunting Javelina.
> 
> I bought some doubletap 147 grain +P that cooks along at 1150 ft/sec while toying with the idea.
> 
> Thoughts?


I'd have no problems hunting with a 9mm carbine.  Its balistics are similar to a .357 with a 16" barrel.

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## lucznik

> I'd have no problems hunting with a 9mm carbine.  Its balistics are similar to a .357 with a 16" barrel.


I'm not sure what you are saying here. Do you mean that:

A 9mm carbine [which basically means a rifle with a 16-18" or so barrel] is balllistically similar to a .357 Magnum, also with a 16" barrel - making it also a carbine?A 9mm carbine with a 16" barrel has similar ballistics  to a .357 Mag [presumably with a 4-6" barrel]?

If #1 is what you meant then, there is no way. The .357 isn't going to lose its ballistic superiority to the 9mm when you increase both barrel lengths.

If what you meant was #2, then I think it might be possible; though I would want to do some more in depth research to be sure.  The comparison would certainly depend heavily on bullet weights and power charges.

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## hunter63

Looks like y'all arn't gonna let this go, so I guess I just have to chime in.

If all you have is a 9mm, then I guess it's a no-brain-er, "dance with who ya brung". IMO that's fine.

If your looking to get double duty out of a round, IMO, marginal, but still sorta OK.

If your looking to "buy one" most all configuration of hand gun, carbine, long gun comes in several calibers, so pick the round for the use intended.

Lots of people don't like recoil, so tend to like smaller calibers, less noise, less punishment.

That still doesn't address the state laws as far as legal, or not for certain game, some people don't care, but the reason for these laws is simply the minium correct tool for the job.

I don't hunt any game, "just to" see if I can hit it at 700yds, or kill a big animal with a mimium round, I have too much respect for all wildlife.
The proper tool for the job.
I don't really agree with the "hey, I have killed _________with a .22, thats all you need" line of thinking.

There, I'm done, carry on.

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## y2k

Depends a lot upon barrel length. Put that 444 in a 4" barrel, and see what you get. Fire the 9mm in a 12" barrel, and load it for top performance in that length, and it will rifle the 22 hornet (in a similar length barrel). Some very experienced men picked the 22 Hornet for the AirForce survival rifle, back in the day. You can get a 90 gr jhp to 1700 fps in a 12" barreled 9mm, no problem at all. That's 6" barreled 357 performance, and Colonel Wesson took grizzly and elk with an 8" 357.

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## y2k

in a carbine, the 357 is a LOT more powerful than the 9mm carbine. The longer case lets you use a lot more powder, and the longer barrel lets you get more performance out of that powder.

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## glockcop

It can be done but only with "surgical" shot placement at very short range. I have taken two deer with "combat pistol" rounds with no problem but it must be done with utmost care and precision. The rounds have the energy to kill but as stated, it must be done perfectly to bring a deer down reliably AND recover it. Most combat pistol cartriages (9mm, 40, 45 acp) will generate around 370 to about 500 foot lbs of energy at the muzzle. Legalities aside, that is enough energy to take a deer at short range IMO. One was with a S&W 4006 at about 20 yards loaded with .40 S&W 165 gr Rem Golden Saber Bonded while I was bow hunting cull deer. I dropped my string release a couple minutes prior to this 120 lb doe walking out on me. She went down with 20-30 yards. The other was also a smallish doe about the same size or smaller that I jumped while squirell hunting. I used a Sig 226 9mm using 124 gr +P+ loaded with Hornady ammo at about the same yardage with very similar results. Both were high heart/double lungers with complete pass through. Massive blood trails resulted. Some say that auto's lack the accuracy to hunt medium sized game but I beg to differ. A good stock S&W, Colt, or Ruger revolver with loads they like will print in the neighborhood of 2" groups at 25 yards. Sigs, H&K USP's, and many semi custom 1911's will do the SAME or sometimes better. And that is REPEATABLE accuracy, not just fluke groups. Glocks, Beretta 92's, CZ 75, and S&W autos will do about 3" or so. Here is the riddle without an answer: An auto that prints 2 1/2" groups at 25 yards will logically print 5" groups at 50 yards, right? No. Not through my experience. For reasons only known to the gun powder Gods, that same pistol that prints 2 1/2" at 25 yards will be more likely to print 4-5" groups at 50 yards. Don't ask me why. I have never figured it out. That's plenty small enough groups to put your rounds in a deer's vitals at 30 yards and closer. Much past 30 yards and the energy drops off too rapidly from a pistol IMO. Contrary to popular belief, deer are NOT particularly hard to put down. Is taking a deer with a combat pistol ethical? Well that's up to you to decide. Legal? Probably not, depending on your State Statutes. Can it be done reliably? Yep, You betcha.

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## birddseedd

So. yall think a normal charge 9 mil too big for small game? Would be nice to improve my shot and get dinner at the same time.

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## hunter63

birddseedd, Welcome to the forum.
There is an intro section at    http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...hp?23795-Hello

As far as the 9mm discussion, I guess it just kinda "Dance with who ya brung......"
Would I use one for small game, or even big game....if that's all I have, yes...If I have other choices?...No.

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## Wildthang

I would compare hunting hogs with a 9mm to hunting grizzley bears with a hickory switch!

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## Wildernesstech

Many use dogs and a knife for hog... most pistols will do the job ay knife range, but no need to burn the ammo.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

To add a little ballistics to the thread. When dispatching an 11 ft. alligator at point blank. The .45 acp had a slightly larger entry hole than the .44 magnum. Neither round exited.

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## Wildthang

> To add a little ballistics to the thread. When dispatching an 11 ft. alligator at point blank. The .45 acp had a slightly larger entry hole than the .44 magnum. Neither round exited.


But the gator was deader that got shot with the .44 :Smartass:

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## deovolens

I only use LAPUA CEP . The stopping power is enough IF the bullet is well placed.

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## DaddyOh

9mm would be an emergency caliber.  Maybe small game, rabbits n cuch, but the sights on the 9mm would be a bit coarse for that kind of shooting.  All around the 9mm is not an ideal hunting cartridge, even in a carbine.  Go with a 357 or a 44, but the 9mm is meant to hurt people.  Animals have denser muscle.

I really don;t like the 9mm for anything but a hideout gun.  If it doesn;t start with a 4 then it better end in magnum.

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## Wildthang

I have a Ruger Single six, 7 1/2" barrel with a .22 mag cylinder and a .22 long cylinder, and I would bet any amount of money that I could take more game with that little .22 than any kind of 9mm you want to use.

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## tjwilhelm

> I would compare hunting hogs with a 9mm to hunting grizzley bears with a hickory switch!


I tried to "Add reputation" to your post; BUT, it won't let me!  Apparently, I'm not allowed to like your posts too much.  I got a message back saying I need to spread the love, instead of adding to your rep, again.  

There's more than one way to skin a cat.  This is my OTHER way of saying I like your post!

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## Wildthang

> I tried to "Add reputation" to your post; BUT, it won't let me!  Apparently, I'm not allowed to like your posts too much.  I got a message back saying I need to spread the love, instead of adding to your rep, again.  
> 
> There's more than one way to skin a cat.  This is my OTHER way of saying I like your post!


Thanks my friend. Maybe I have so much rep, I can't get anymore!

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## Rick

Maybe.....

"Dreams are often most profound when they seem the most crazy" - Sigmund Freud.


 :Whistling:

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## DaddyOh

> I have a Ruger Single six, 7 1/2" barrel with a .22 mag cylinder and a .22 long cylinder, and I would bet any amount of money that I could take more game with that little .22 than any kind of 9mm you want to use.


I would not bet against you.  A good 22 can be used to consistently shoot the brass on a shotgun shell at 7-15 yards.

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## Greyghost

I wouldn't use a 9 unless emergency survival, then on rabbits and such, not on deer at all.  Again unless I was starving to death and that's all I had, but I don't own a 9 at all so wouldn't have to worry about it I guess.

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## Batch

I agree with Hunter saying dance with who you brung.

I have killed gators and one rabbit with a 9mm. I have also had a .44 magnum ricochet off of a hogs skull.

Having one gun to me is like having one of any all-in-one tool. It might work in a pinch. but, it isn't going to do the job as well as a purpose built tool.

Most people would chose a 9mm as a personal defense weapon because it is concealable and has a high round capacity. I carry a Sig P226 in 9mm with a plus 2 mag and that gives me 21 rounds of 9mm in the gun. In a life or death situation misses happen. You are better off moving than standing still and shooting and so accuracy is sacrificed for getting off the X. In coming bullets have the right of way.

I wouldn't choose the 9mm to hunt anything with. I hunt with long guns. If I were hunting with a handgun it would have longer barrel than something you would chose to carry daily. 

When you hunt hogs with dogs you have catch dogs that get a hold of the hog. They have the business end occupied while you come in and throw the hog down and use a long knife to kill the hog. Most use a knife with a blade around 12" and some up to 15". A lot of hunters will use a double edged knife so they can stab easier and swish the blade around to cause greater bleeding and a swifter death. Not the kind of knife you would choose for daily carry in town or for general bushcraft. You won't find anyone who has hunted hog with a knife recommending a a folder.

I have heard stories of people taking close quartering towards shots with all sorts of weapons and had them not penetrate the shield. bows, buck shot and hang gun rounds.

So, in short bring something you would want to dance that dance with or you just might find yourself dancing with a mean old pig!

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## Greyghost

Ive seen a 5" 22mag kill 1800 pound steers with no problem, But that was at about 15' in a controlled situation, drop hogs without a squeal , But that's not hunting scenario. A 9mm is a human defense weapon and not the best there is for that. IMHO  People die easy compared to a wild animal. Be ethical anytime you shoot an animal, use the right weapon a 9mm isn't it.  This is why most agency's have changed from them, Its a ok round if you are comfortable with it, It probably wont over penetrate and anybody can handle the recoil from women to older people even kids. That's why they carry 16 rounds and everybody does the double tap. You might not have time to put 16 rounds in a 350# boar that just busted out of the brush at 15' 
I would want more on my side

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## point man

I agree with all. Dance with who you brought. If your hungry and all you have is a 9mm then I'd be hunting with a 9mm and not posting if its suitable.  IMHO the 9mm is very over rated for self defense. However it is what my wife carries, and god willing it will never be needed. Now the 22lr is responsible for more white tail deer kills than any other calibre on the planet, but please everyone lets not turn this into a 22lr is not a suitable deer hunting cartridge topic because its not suitable but will do the job if the shooter does his and given choice I'd rather be Sh!t up a creek with a 22 than a 9mm. When we start talking energy and penetration a 22mag rifle is a serious rival to the 9mm pistol. So that being said, dance with who you brought but if given the chance leave the 9mm in the wife's purse. Ill rap (wrap) it up with this. I don't mean to bash the 9mm but you guys ever hear these rappers sing about all the gun shot wounds they received and lived? That's because they are running around shooting each other with .25 acps 380's and 9mm's. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## hunter63

> I agree with all. Dance with who you brought. If your hungry and all you have is a 9mm then I'd be hunting with a 9mm and not posting if its suitable.  IMHO the 9mm is very over rated for self defense. However it is what my wife carries, and god willing it will never be needed. Now the 22lr is responsible for more white tail deer kills than any other calibre on the planet, but please everyone lets not turn this into a 22lr is not a suitable deer hunting cartridge topic because its not suitable but will do the job if the shooter does his and given choice I'd rather be Sh!t up a creek with a 22 than a 9mm. When we start talking energy and penetration a 22mag rifle is a serious rival to the 9mm pistol. So that being said, dance with who you brought but if given the chance leave the 9mm in the wife's purse. Ill rap (wrap) it up with this. I don't mean to bash the 9mm but you guys ever hear these rappers sing about all the gun shot wounds they received and lived? That's because they are running around shooting each other with .25 acps 380's and 9mm's. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So is there some data you want to share.?...or was this an opinion?

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## point man

What data? Energy? My wifes Glock g26 3.4 " barrel 115 fmj Feds over my crony, average 1075 fps =295 ft lbs. at muzzle. My 22mag with 20" barrel with cci 40 gr jhp 1995 fps =354 ft lbs. 22mag produces allot more hydrostatic shock.
-my statement about 22lr taking more white tail than any other cartridge? Opinion. Based off of very strong evidence. It's the number one choice of poachers. People have been feeding them selves with it for longer than the 9mm has existed. You ever try to feed your self over a winter on small game?  Hunter63. Would you rather have a 9mm over a 22lr or mag?


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## point man

Oh and this is fact. A 22lr penetrates deeper on ballistics tests than a 9mm. 


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## Batch

> Oh and this is fact. A 22lr penetrates deeper on ballistics tests than a 9mm. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Apples to apples. A .22lr penetrates deeper than a 9mm in ballistic gelatine. You would expect a smaller diameter to penetrate more. And for control you are talking out of the same length barrel, right? How is the temporary and permanent wound channel?

I also think poachers favor cheap guns and they tend to not care as much if the animal isn't recovered.

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## point man

> Apples to apples. A .22lr penetrates deeper than a 9mm in ballistic gelatine. You would expect a smaller diameter to penetrate more. And for control you are talking out of the same length barrel, right? How is the temporary and permanent wound channel?
> 
> I also think poachers favor cheap guns and they tend to not care as much if the animal isn't recovered.


No not the same length barrel as stated in my post. Simply the most common lengths a person would have in the bush. Most likely the 22lr or 22mag would be a rifle and the 9mm most likely would be pistol. No? Your exactly right. A smaller dia would penetrate deeper. Deeper penetration also has a better chance of hitting more vitals or arteries. A deeper penetrating bullet would also have a better chance of making a pass through creating a better chance for blood trail, No? For the common man a 22 would certainly be easier to shoot accurately than a 9mm. 
Ill make it easy on myself. Rather than me state which cal I'd rather have and take a beating for it, ill ask you.
Would you rather feed your self or a group with a 9mm or a 22 rimfire?
 I disagree about the poacher not caring about recovery. Maybe in situations where people are thrill kill poachers , but in situations like what my uncle calls hungry season or a depression people are certainly concerned with recovery. Final note. A 22mag is a legal deer hunting cartridge in Maine


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## hunter63

That's fine to have the opinion......we all have them.
Just wondering if there was some new data...."any caliber on the planet" is where your statement breaks down for me....and comes off as "web speak"....That is my opinion.

I agree with you on the usefulness of a .22 lr, over a 9 mm for poaching,.....(I don't do that), for no other reason than being quieter,...   but would prefer a 9mm for self defense over a .22 lr.

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## point man

> That's fine to have the opinion......we all have them.
> Just wondering if there was some new data...."any caliber on the planet" is where your statement breaks down for me....and comes off as "web speak"....That is my opinion.
> 
> I agree with you on the usefulness of a .22 lr, over a 9 mm for poaching,.....(I don't do that), for no other reason than being quieter,...   but would prefer a 9mm for self defense over a .22 lr.


I'm sorry. Did I type that a 22lr was better for self defense? Isn't this whole topic about the woods and not self defense?


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## hunter63

Just stating my opinion....
I can see that we actually agree on the 9mm lack of hunting performance.

We use larger rifles on deer and other big game around here.

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## point man

We hunt with legal means of dispatch around hear also, we also follow all laws to T and I thoroughly no my states self defense and hunting/trapping laws and regulations inside and out.
This is a survival forum right? Poaching and trapping of large game was just called surviving before mans laws. This is where all this topic started right? (Is a 9mm suitable for hunting)?. IMHO your better of with a 22 




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## hunter63

I do agree with that........and yes, if it's a survival situation, I going back to my original statement, ..."Dance with what you got".

But more white tailed deer killed with a .22?.......Nope, ....30-30 maybe.

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## randyt

probably more killed with a stone tipped arrow LOL.

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## point man

> I do agree with that........and yes, if it's a survival situation, I going back to my original statement, ..."Dance with what you got".
> 
> But more white tailed deer killed with a .22?.......Nope, ....30-30 maybe.


Hahaha. The old 30-30 theory. There's actually historical data that states in many writings that its simply not true. Don't even start the 30-30 thing. As far as dedicated deer rifles go  and not survival situations go the 30-30 has poor ballistics. I will search for that data and I will also search my data on the 22lr killing more deer. Ill also find data of different state DNR and DEP agencies that use the 22lr to cull deer populations


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## hunter63

LOL....You have a good time looking, 30-30 question will never be answered to everyone's satisfaction.....I just saying that's my opinion.

I have to agree with the stone tipped arrows....for the long run.

Y'all have a good evening.

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## point man

http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com/200...ong-rifle.html no proof but likely true


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## point man

http://rule-303.blogspot.com/2012/10...-for-deer.html no proof but likely true


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## point man

http://4dtraveler.net/2014/02/10/ano...he-22lr-round/ here are some interesting findings


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## hunter63

Sorry, don't believe it....Not near any kind of proof.....anyone can post a blog on the interweb...all they need is a Ipad or phone.
You win... I'm out.

That's alright, I don't believe pic's or targets posted either....unless I was at the range and watched.

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## point man

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/neighbo...glass.html.csp Utah DWR culling deer with 22


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## randyt

Aww man, I stepped up to the live primer decapping challenge and now this. It's springtime and after a winter of feeding on cedar boughs, whitetail ain't going to be worth a darn for eating and scrawny too. LOL. Sorry fellas, just being silly. I don't take too much seriously.

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## point man

> Sorry, don't believe it....Not near any kind of proof.....anyone can post a blog on the interweb...all they need is a Ipad or phone.
> You win... I'm out.
> 
> That's alright, I don't believe pic's or targets posted either....unless I was at the range and watched.


I urge you to do some research or run some personal tests some numbers maybe might be fun. I do regularly. i live a live of research self preformed tests and such. Prove me wrong. Do you think your write? Or are you right? I'm curious. Ill learn from anyone as long as they have something to teach


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## hunter63

> Aww man, I stepped up to the live primer decapping challenge and now this. It's springtime and after a winter of feeding on cedar boughs, whitetail ain't going to be worth a darn for eating and scrawny too. LOL. Sorry fellas, just being silly. I don't take too much seriously.


LOL, yeah well, my wife doesn't let me have any firearms after I lost them all anyway......

Besides stone tipped arrows, spears, atlatl darts will bring down a mammoth... At least around here.

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## point man

> Aww man, I stepped up to the live primer decapping challenge and now this. It's springtime and after a winter of feeding on cedar boughs, whitetail ain't going to be worth a darn for eating and scrawny too. LOL. Sorry fellas, just being silly. I don't take too much seriously.


Haha. Your right. I ate a spring rabbit once. Darn thing was literally un edible like eating tire rubber. I was amazed. That's why you gotta shoot a moose in late fall with the old survival 22lr "cause that's all ya had"! hopefully you'd be able to eat that through spring. Not that the meat wouldn't have gone bad by then or it were smoked, then in that case it would be like eating tire rubber anyway haha


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## point man

> LOL, yeah well, my wife doesn't let me have any firearms after I lost them all anyway......
> 
> Besides stone tipped arrows, spears, atlatl darts will bring down a mammoth... At least around here.


You lose them in a boating accident? That's what happened to mine 


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## hunter63

Yep.....
It was sad, 
Oh it was sad, 
It was sad, then the canoe full of goodies went down......
To the bottom of the.....gosh. I forget?

Now I can say that a quart of Blatz, out the side window of a '57 Chevy at 70 mph, will kill a doe deader that snot.
Sorry, no interweb or pads or phones, so you have to take my word for it.

BTW was serious about the mammoth....
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...40618205000534

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/kids/mammoth/news.htm

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## point man

I don't believe it. Was the beer in a glass bottle or peel top can? Head shot or body shot? Those head shots work wonders! That's what I like about the 22lr over the 9mm, head shots. 

Now I can say that a red Ryder can and has dropped a Canada goose right out of sky with a head shot and mama caught it right in the dang stew pot!

Without pictures it never happened 



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## hunter63

Glass bottle, head shot......week before season opened, self defense, was gonna wreck the car.
Still sad about the wasted beer.

Them there Red Ryders were deadly, mostly shot at bumble bees...proper tool for the job.
Bumble bees can fly faster than a 9 year old can run.

Red Ryder BB gun.....Goose, nope, .... don't believe it, they are armored and only can die for a 3-1/2 load of Hevi-Shot, form a flyover, slightly behind, so as to hit that slight chink in the armor for below and behind.

Cameras were invented...but shutter speeds were like 1.......so a lot of blurred pic's that we couldn't afford to get developed anyway.

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## point man

Head shot I say! He tucked his head in chest and dropped right to earth.

Quart of water weights 2.085lbs and ill give you 5 ounces for the bottle at 70 mph that's roughly 190 ft lbs. maybe that deer walked of with a headache and you didn't notice cause you had to keep your eyes on road since you were doing 70 in a 57 Chevy and drinking. Good thing there's the statue of limitations. Speeding, drinking and poaching  would be good for a  DUI, speeding ticket and loss of hunting license by self written admission. 


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## hunter63

It was self defense,.... I swear,........ wasn't driving, riding shot gun.......
The thing is...... they hadn't invented DUI yet,..... speed limits were a dare, as in "I dare you to take that corner at 45"....and we didn't  have a license...and it was at night.
Foot pounds or no.....did drop her on the spot....had to bring her back and hang in the barn after cleaning.
The beer was a fluke thing, as the preferred deer harvesting tool of the day was a 1958 Dodge 4X4 Power wagon, that could extend the road kill zone a 100 yards or so on either side of the road.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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## Greyghost

Best coon hunting was my buddys 70 something Chevy and a case of Bud, Went through a lot of exhaust systems though. But that V8 made them suckers run, The coon dog in the back seat thought it was great sport. Boy gravel roads aint what they used to be.

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## randyt

we had a old truck with a crossover box. The hounds would place their front paws on this box and stick their nose in the air and sniff. We would drive slow down the two tracks (dirt road, sod center). The hounds would let out a beller and off we would go following hounds through the woods.

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## point man

> It was self defense,.... I swear,........ wasn't driving, riding shot gun.......
> The thing is...... they hadn't invented DUI yet,..... speed limits were a dare, as in "I dare you to take that corner at 45"....and we didn't  have a license...and it was at night.
> Foot pounds or no.....did drop her on the spot....had to bring her back and hang in the barn after cleaning.
> The beer was a fluke thing, as the preferred deer harvesting tool of the day was a 1958 Dodge 4X4 Power wagon, that could extend the road kill zone a 100 yards or so on either side of the road.
> 
> That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Good old days


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## swenlet

uh, it's perfectly feasible to rehydrate jerky, guy. So you have to let it soak, spice it, boil/stew it with some greens/tubers, fish, etc, so what? Such conditions are what stews, soups, meat loaf and similar foods were developed to handle, you know.

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## randyt

I rehydrate jerky when making lunches in a thermos bottle. Usually mix in some jerky with rice or lentils.

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## swenlet

yep, it's certainly no big deal, and it helps both the "chewability" of the jerky, and the taste of whatever tubers, inner bark, etc you are eating. :-)

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## swenlet

As to the hunting with a 9mm pistol, many used to hunt with the old  25-20, which was 87 grs at  1450 fps, from a RIFLE.  It was no deer gun, but many made it suffice, in a pinch. same is true of the 9mm.  The 90 gr and 100gr Plus P loads from Corbon get the same or higher speeds, from 5" pistol barrels.

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## FreedomUIC

I have a 9mm carbine made by Hi-Point.  The thing is blowback operated instead of gas and will eat +p rounds for breakfast lunch and dinner.  A one inch group at 100 yards is very common place with reloaded hollow points.
I wouldn't be afraid to take that out on a wild pig hunt here in Florida.  In fact I plan on doing that this summer.

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