# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  Boston marathon

## rebel

Was there a bombing?

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## hunter63

http://news.yahoo.com/two-explosions...9876--spt.html

Quote>


BOSTON (AP)  Two explosions at the finish line of the Boston Marathon have resulted in injuries.

Bloody spectators were being carried Monday to the medical tent that had been set up to care for fatigued runners. Police wove through competitors as they ran back toward the course.

"There are a lot of people down," said one man, whose bib No. 17528 identified him as Frank Deruyter of North Carolina. He was not injured, but marathon workers were carrying one woman, who did not appear to be a runner, to the medical area as blood gushed from her leg. A Boston police officer was wheeled from the course with a leg injury that was bleeding.

About three hours after the winners crossed the line, there was a loud explosion on the north side of Boylston Street, just before the photo bridge that marks the finish line. Another explosion could be heard a few seconds later.< quote
 .

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## Rick

What ever happened to a good old fashioned public hanging? Why not take those SOBs responsible and string them up on the square?

Here is a live feed: 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mor...inish-line.ece

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## crashdive123

Watching the coverage now.  No speculation as to the cause yet.

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## GreatUsername

Looks like it. Several injured, possibly a number dead. Two explosions, not confirmed to be bombs rather than an accident, but it seems likely.

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## kyratshooter

Apparently 2 bombs, seperated by about 1/2 block distance w/20 second delay between explosions.

One at the finish line and the other before the finish.

Seemed to be at sidewalk level.

Coverage is all chaos and speculation.  Each reporter has a different story.

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## letslearntogether47

News is saying 2 explosions.But,there's has been police scanner talk about "devices".
A local forum that I'm part of heard from a friend that works at a local hospital.Many,many injuries,some serious.
Sadly a few deaths as well.

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## Rick

We have two threads running on the bombing so I've merged them.

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## Ken

Both the Boston Globe and the Boston Herald Websites are overloaded.  

Here's another local report:  http://www.heraldnews.com/news/x6334...s-to-hospitals

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## Ken

LIVE COVERAGE: http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/117th...oston_Marathon

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## crashdive123

Apparently a hotel is now being evacuated (Lenox?).  As with any real time reporting, there will be a lot of errors in reporting.

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## kyratshooter

Black SUVs had the area blocked off before the dabris had fallen and the politicians are already on camera.

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## Ken

> Apparently a hotel is now being evacuated (Lenox?).  As with any real time reporting, there will be a lot of errors in reporting.


Another Explosion nearby.

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## letslearntogether47

> Apparently a hotel is now being evacuated (Lenox?).  As with any real time reporting, there will be a lot of errors in reporting.


Correct,the Lenox.
Some are saying trash cans exploded.

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## Ken

Boston Channel 5 (ABC Live) reports 2 Dead - 22 Injured

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## rebel

I'm listening to the Boston police, fire, ems scanner.  

I hear the Mass general hospital is one of the best trauma centers in the U.S.

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## letslearntogether47

Unconfirmed.

ATF and bomb squads are all over the area.

http://m.nypost.com/p/news/national/...wASg0RQfVsH1yI

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## rebel

Ems found a suspicious devise...

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## Ken

> I'm listening to the Boston police, fire, ems scanner.  
> 
> I hear the Mass general hospital is one of the best trauma centers in the U.S.





> I'm listening to the Boston police, fire, ems scanner.  
> 
> I hear the Mass general hospital is one of the best trauma centers in the U.S.


Mass General is one of the best in the world. So is Boston Medical Center.   Boston has several outstanding hospitals.

Boston has three medical schools:  Harvard, Boston University, and Tufts with several major teaching hospitals.

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## letslearntogether47

If this is sinister and it seems like it is.
There's pretty much cameras everywhere in the city.So some are going to show what happened and possibly who was involved.

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## BENESSE

> If this is sinister and it seems like it is.
> *There's pretty much cameras everywhere in the city.So some are going to show what happened and possibly who was involved*.


Times like these make you appreciate the importance of cameras everywhere. Some people don't like the idea but I find them much more useful than intrusive.

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## Ken

> If this is sinister and it seems like it is.
> There's pretty much cameras everywhere in the city.So some are going to show what happened and possibly who was involved.


I was at Copley a few weeks ago.  Cameras are EVERYWHERE.

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## rebel

2 more devises found.

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## Ken

> Times like these make you appreciate the importance of cameras everywhere. Some people don't like the idea but I find them much more useful than intrusive.


There useless if the subject is wearing a disguise.  Let's see how this one pans out.

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## Ken

Reports of a bomb at JFK Library.

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## rebel

> Reports of a bomb at JFK Library.


I saw there was a fire.  I didn't know the cause.

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## cowgirlup

> Times like these make you appreciate the importance of cameras everywhere. Some people don't like the idea but I find them much more useful than intrusive.


They just said the police want to see any video of the finish line that  people took.

It is Patriots Day in Mass.

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## Ken

At least 2 DEAD and dozens injured and NOT ONE SO-CALLED "ASSAULT WEAPON" OR 30 ROUND MAGAZINE INVOLVED.

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## Ken

Local FOX reports a suspect is in the hospital.

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## BENESSE

"At least 2 DEAD and dozens injured and NOT ONE SO-CALLED "ASSAULT WEAPON" OR 30 ROUND MAGAZINE INVOLVED."

Yeah, isn't that great!

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## kyratshooter

So we have at least 5 devices positioned.  

Sounds like more than one person would be involved.

Everyone is now talking about what a good job everyone did while giving absolutely no information.

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## Ken

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## GreatUsername

Unless you have an iron stomach, don't click on the photos that are labelled with a "graphic content" warning. I feel so sorry for the people of Boston. This is a horrible tragedy.

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## letslearntogether47

This is a weird news story.They might be grasping at straws.
So take this as just hear say.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...9uC2PDGIjYBalO

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## cowgirlup

Live EMS/PD feed  link

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6254/web

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## randyt

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Yes, pray for Boston!!!!!!!!!!

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## rebel

I hope they got 'em: http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/susp...4/15/id/499570

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## Ken

> I hope they got 'em: http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/susp...4/15/id/499570



+1   The Feds should prosecute this one.  Mass doesn't have a death penalty.

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## welderguy

> +1   The Feds should prosecute this one.  Mass doesn't have a death penalty.


 But accidents happen in jail all the time!!!

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## rebel

> +1   The Feds should prosecute this one.  Mass doesn't have a death penalty.


Put him in a pig suit and let Bubba have his fun.

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## letslearntogether47

There's guards are Brigham and Women's with auto weapons.
10-1 this is where the perp is.

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## Ken

> But accidents happen in jail all the time!!!





> Put him in a pig suit and let Bubba have his fun.


As liberal as this state is, in times like this Massachusetts "justice" tends to be far less "civilized" than most places.

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## Rick

If this is outside terrorism it's time to cut the head off the snake and bury the body parts in pig fat. This is the ultimate act of cowardice.

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## Rick

Boston PD just announced they have NO suspect in custody.

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## letslearntogether47

Local news mentioned a "person of interest"that was burned in one of the explosions.

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## Ken

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## rebel

Has NoKo Kim's notoriety been diverted?   So sorry porky.

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## LowKey

Three dead now and they're still confirming no suspect at any hospital, though the news media is making a big point about, and I quote, "all the swat carrying large semi-automatic rifles, those big scary ones..." Don't let a tragic moment go to waste.
Some of the media are still running incorrect stories even after the 830 news conference.
Meanwhile some sick bastard is sitting in a room somewhere with thirty televisions getting off on all the coverage he's getting.
Sad...

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## rebel

I hear an eight year old was killed.  I hope they catch those responsible.

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## rebel

One of the doc's at mass gen was deployed to iraq.

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## Ken

There would probably be more deaths and the injured would not have received the same level of care in most other places.  Thank God for Boston Hospitals.


*Massachusetts General Hospital
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BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER
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TUFTS MEDICAL CENTER
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BRIGHAM & WOMEN'S HOSPITAL
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BOSTON CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL
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ST. ELIZABETH'S HOSPITAL
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*

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## LowKey

The campus out at Longwood is so amazingly interconnected. So many top of the line hospitals right there.
I've done a bit of work at BWH and DFCI. You almost wish they had those sliding walkways like airports have just to get around there.
It's huge.

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## BENESSE

One thing for sure: Boston has some of the best hospitals in the world. If life and limb can be saved, it's there. God bless them all and guide them in this difficult time!!!
Now...let's not forget (i.e. keep an open mind) that we too have some of the best home grown lunatics of our own. Hope that's not the case, (don't even know why I say that) but it could be. Just hope they catch them whoever they are.

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## rebel

Can we trust them to tell the truth?

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## Ken

> Now...let's not forget (i.e. keep an open mind) that we too have some of the best home grown lunatics of our own. Hope that's not the case, (don't even know why I say that) but it could be. Just hope they catch them whoever they are.


Some of these lunatics can be stopped, but not all.  Disarming citizens isn't the answer.  Effective punishment is.  An eight-year-old little girl was massacred today.  I cannot conceive of ANY punishment that would be cruel or unusual for whoever is responsible for this evil.

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## BENESSE

You can punish all you want AFTER the fact but it doesn't stop _suicidal_ lunatics. They....don't ....care.
To me, it's parallel paths. Severe punishment for sure, but prevention as well. Can't have one without the other.

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## Ken

> You can punish all you want AFTER the fact but it doesn't stop _suicidal_ lunatics. They....don't ....care.


Agreed.  However, most are homicidal, not suicidal.  And we can make an example of those that will surely discourage their kind.

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## rebel

> Agreed.  However, most are homicidal, not suicidal.  And we can make an example of those that will surely discourage their kind.


How?
 Our hands are tied.  The aclu...  ( I don't need to explaine).  

From what I hear. We're  tired. We're in need of a leader and a couple thousand self sacrifiicers.

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## BENESSE

> Agreed.  *However, most are homicidal, not suicidal*.  And we can make an example of those that will surely discourage their kind.


Those would be ours, of the Timothy McVey variety. _Theirs_, however, got the 72 virgin mindset and the _only_ thing we can do in their case is diffuse them _before_ they strike. "Our" way of thinking and reasoning does not apply to them. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can strat dealing with this metastatic cancer instead of treating tumors as they appear on the scan.

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## Ken

> How?
>  Our hands are tied.  The aclu...  ( I don't need to explaine).  
> 
> From what I hear. We're  tired. We're in need of a leader and a couple thousand self sacrifiicers.


I like to attribute the plain meaning of words to our law.  That makes far more sense than redefining the common vernacular.  Ask the parents of that 8-year-old child who was killed today to describe any punishment they feel would be too cruel for her killers.  Ask her mom and dad what could be a more unusual punishment then ending their child's life by tearing her body apart with a shrapnel laden bomb.  Screw the ACLU.  "Cruel and unusual" are relative terms.  I'm not a savage.  However, I'd gladly employ the most lingering excruciating public torture ever conceived of as punishment in cases such as this.

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## BENESSE

That goes for any parent who lost their child to violence.
There's no difference...NONE.

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## NightShade

marathonsoldiers.jpg from today

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## welderguy

I have been following this since I heard about it. I can only pray that God helps each and every one effected by this today, And the responsible are brought to justice.

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## Rick

> _Theirs, however, got the 72 virgin mindset_


If you drag them through hog fat first then those 72 virgins are all 400 pounders and all look like hatchet face. 

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I say hang the bistards on the public square.

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## letslearntogether47

When events like this happen it shows the evil side of some.But, also shows humanity from others.
Those that were first on the scene, removing their shirts to stop bleeding.Or simply giving a hug to those in distress.
There would probably be more fatalities if it wasn't for the quick work of the folks from the First aid/ Medical tent at the finish line.
My thoughts and prayers are with all those effected by this act of terrorism.

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## letslearntogether47

This guy is seen in a lot of the carnage,helping out.
Quite a story.

http://gma.yahoo.com/boston-marathon...ws-health.html

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## Wildthang

God bless the people in this horrible event!

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## letslearntogether47

They are reporting that the dvices were made from pressure cookers in duffle bags filled with ball bearings,BBs,metal and nails.
One surgeon said he removed a bunch of nails from one victim.

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## BENESSE

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...m_medium=email

"The man was tackled by a bystander when he was running away from the  scene after the first bomb went off. The spectator said he went after  the Saudi man because he thought that he was acting suspiciously."

God bless the bystander!!!! Either way, he deserves a medal, IMHO.

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## kyratshooter

The FBI press conference this morning claimed they had no Saudi national in custody.

As of 2pm there is no one reported in custody.

Misinformation is flying everywhere.

I will just about guarentee that this will be traced to powder usable to reload ammunition and we will face new restrictions of purchasing reloading componants and limits on ammo possession to restrict powder access.

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## letslearntogether47

Well, yes they do have a"person of interest"in Brigham and Women's hospital under guard.
He is a wounded(from one of the bombs) 20.yo. Saudi national.
They raided a house in Revere Ma, this morning and took evidence out in black plastic bags.

This is being reported by almost all local news with pictures as well.

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## letslearntogether47

About 3/4 of the way through this story.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/1...tment-searched

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## Ken

Boston Marathon runners reportedly crossed the finish lineand continued to Mass General Hospital to give blood to victims of the bombings.

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## BENESSE

> I will just about guarentee that this will be traced to powder usable to reload ammunition and we will face new restrictions of purchasing reloading componants and limits on ammo possession to restrict powder access.


Oh, forcryingoutloud! 
Will you relax for about 5 minutes or are you gonna bring it around to _that_ every chance you get? Next time someone strangles a person using his bare hands, I'm afraid to think of where you're mind is gonna take you next.  :Shifty:

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## Ken

A person of interest?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1317904

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## Rick

I read that six families from Sandy Hook Elementary participated as special guests only to be attacked again. Pretty sad all around. 

I haven't skinned an animal in a few years. I would volunteer to practice on whoever is responsible for this. I promise to keep him alive for a very long time while I practice.

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## Ken

> I haven't skinned an animal in a few years. I would volunteer to practice on whoever is responsible for this. I promise to keep him alive for a very long time while I practice.


Ah yes, we seem to agree.  I have dibs on his eyelids and digestive tract.  And I get to keep him "nourished" during the process.

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## BENESSE

The Saudi person of interest who was guarded at the hospital is no longer a suspect.

So far, they've got nothing! Can't even get mad at anyone, can't even have fantasies of what you'll do if you ever got your hands on him.

Get busy, Ken!

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## Ken

> The Saudi person of interest who was guarded at the hospital is no longer a suspect.
> 
> So far, they've got nothing! Can't even get mad at anyone, can't even have fantasies of what you'll do if you ever got your hands on him.
> 
> Get busy, Ken!



I have a few state and fed LE friends who have been working the investigation around the clock.  This is the most highly coordinated tight-lipped investigation you can imagine.  

To give you an idea of how incredibly thorough these guys are, I'll share an experience I had in late summer of 1995....

I was in my office when my secretary knocked on my door and told me that two FBI agents were at her desk asking to speak to me.  Since I had no unpaid parking tickets at the time, I invited the agents in and we sat at my conference table.  They asked me if I had been in recent contact with a former client.  The conversation grew guarded from that point on, but the reason they were asking about him was because he had rented a Ryder truck that had been driven enough miles to have reached Oklahoma City.  

The FBI knew that that particular truck wasn't the one used by Timothy McVeigh, but their job was to RULE OUT even the most remote possibility that any Ryder truck OTHER than the one rented by McVeigh had been used in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building.  If they had not done this, McVeigh's attorneys would have likely argued that the FBI had not investigated other possibilities or leads and had improperly jumped to the conclusion that "McVeigh's" Ryder truck was the one used for the bombing.

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## Ken

This image from The Wall Street Journal depicts the nature of the device used.  Plans for this thing were published in the summer of 2010 on the  Al Qaeda jihadist _"INSPIRE"_ magazine website.   I can't believe that our government doesn't simply destroy those websites.

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## Rick

Some news media are showing what might have been the bomb positioned next to a mailbox. If it turns out to be the actual bomb how fortuitous it was that the assailant(s) positioned it there. That mailbox, no doubt, shielded a lot of folks from harm or further injury.

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## Ken

Boston bombing a painstaking venture for forensics experts

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion...ensics_experts

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## rebel

There's been several attempted bombings in the U.S. in the last few years.  We weren't as lucky on this one.  I don't think things will get better.  Other countries have been dealing with this hazard for a long time.  Even though it's giving up some freedom, I'm staying away from crowded events.

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## Ken

Knowledge of pressure-cooker bombs is not limited to readers of al-Qaeda’s ‘Inspire’ magazine

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...pire-magazine/

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## Ken

FOX announced that unconfirmed reports say the FBI has identified a suspect through video taken near the second bombing site.  The FBI is reviewing ALL cell phone activity in that area at relevant times to determine if a cell phone call triggered the blasts.

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## Ken

Confirmed reports:  Suspect identified and arrest is imminent.

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## letslearntogether47

***Breaking News***

Just been hearing this on the radio.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion...rathon_bombing

****An arrest has just been announced.

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## Ken

I hope they show his face on TV soon.  The Feds have the DEATH PENALTY.

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## welderguy

I am wondering what if any are his affiliations.

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## letslearntogether47

> I am wondering what if any are his affiliations.


Same here.
There's a news conference at 5pm.

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## kyratshooter

That is one of the most scatter brained news reports I have read in some time!

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## letslearntogether47

> That is one of the most scatter brained news reports I have read in some time!


lol

I agree,this is crazy.I just heard 3 different news releases on the radio.
So say yes,some say no and some say maybe.
I'm not surprised,the local news in this state haven't practiced real journalism in many years.

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## letslearntogether47

So now the Fed courthouse in Boston has a bomb threat.

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## welderguy

> So now the Fed courthouse in Boston has a bomb threat.


 So whats the deal? why is someone pi$$ed off at Boston?

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## letslearntogether47

> So whats the deal? why is someone pi$$ed off at Boston?


I don't think they're POed at Boston.
They probably have one in custody and probably more will be brought in as well.
I heard on the local radio(via callers) that there is a lot of activity going on in Boston right now.
One said they are closing roads throughout the city.I would guess to make way to bring the suspect to the Moakley Fed Courthouse.
It's going to be a media circus.
BTW,wonder why this is in General Survival thread?

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## welderguy

makes ya wonder just how many photos get doctored that dont get caught!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/daily-news-doc...--finance.html

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## Ken

> So now the Fed courthouse in Boston has a bomb threat.


All the lawyers will head across the street to The Barking Crab.  Great food, ice cold beer....

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## BENESSE

> All the lawyers will head across the street to The Barking Crab.  Great food, ice cold beer....


Don't you see the plan?
Bomb threat called to the courthouse...bomb goes off @ the Crab. :Sneaky2:

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## Ken

> Don't you see the plan?
> Bomb threat called to the courthouse...bomb goes off @ the Crab.


More clients for me.  I was in Westport.

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## rebel

FBI statement at 8pm.

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## Rick

It's now being reported that someone sent a letter to Obama with ricin in it. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...tance/2090465/

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## Ken

> It's now being reported that someone sent a letter to Obama with ricin in it. 
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...tance/2090465/


With "rice in it?"  Now why would anyone do that?

Could it be because someone wants him to know what he/she can afford to eat?

Could it be because someone wants him to know what EVERYONE will be eating if we keep borrowing from China?

Could it be because Michelle may as well give up on her diet?

Could it be because white rice is mainly empty calories?

Could it be .... oh wait, you said "ricin."  Nevermind.

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## Ken

Anyone recognize these guys?

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## rebel

No. Both have big arsed bags. My profiling mind says middle eastern.

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## Ken

> No. Both have big arsed bags. My profiling mind says middle eastern.


Was it the camel hairs on the running suit that gave it away?

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## rebel

Could the delay of information be for PC reasons?

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## BENESSE

In the "NO BAG" shot I can't tell if there's a bag or not; different angle, etc.
Eenyway...people around him are very easy to identify especially in the "no bag" shot... _who_ are they, _where_ are they, _are_ they hurt? A good starting point.

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## rebel

I hear the circuit board they found is pointing to a cell phone initiation.  I hope they can trace the call.

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## crashdive123

> It's now being reported that someone sent a letter to Obama with ricin in it. 
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...tance/2090465/


An arrest in the ricin mailings was just announced.

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## crashdive123

I know that all of the LE organizations are being pretty tight lipped, but here are some observations from today.....draw your own conclusions.

Bomb scare at courthouse.

During the time of bomb scare, while watching a local Boston news station on line - a van with tinted windows and at least one guy in a suit backs into an entrance at the rear of the building.  No idea who was in the van.

The President of the United States met with a Saudi Prince today. (reported by Reuters)  The meeting was not on his schedule.

Watching news tonight - a former intelligence officer reported that he was informed that a Saudi National was being deported for national security concerns.

The feds have pretty much put a gag order on all local law enforcement.



I fully realize that much of the reporting on this topic has been inaccurate.  Just thought these reports were interesting and might bear further watching.

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## Davidlastink

"Damn I can't wear all black.... I'll stand out too much what can I do to look less conspicuous???" "OH I KNOW I'll buy a bright brand new white Hat!"

See something Say something, Living in NYC after 911 I was stopped after class late at night around 10pm coming home with a huge backpack full of text books. Car bat was dead and didn't feel like waiting around so hopped on the train, I didn't argue or complain just let the officers look in the bag. They seemed so surprised that it was text books, maybe thought it was drugs or a bomb dunno.

Point is All the talk of loss of civil liberties going around rubs me the wrong way. I'm more than ok with an officer searching my bag, I can't stand the thought of losing the right to bear arms. The difference for me? Checking bags does not hurt good people only bad, bad people will always find a way to arm themselves, They will make improvised explosive devices, and break the law to pursue their ends.

So people complain about stop and search being implemented with less need for cause while praising stricter gun control laws that make no sense and little difference from stop bad people from doing bad things.

/rantoff

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## Ken

> During the time of bomb scare, while watching a local Boston news station on line - a van with tinted windows and at least one guy in a suit backs into an entrance at the rear of the building.  No idea who was in the van.


All, or most all, prisoners in Boston Federal Court are brought in like that.  Tinted window van, rear enterance (Sally Port).  The FBI has a large office in the Courthouse in addition to their main office near Government Center.

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## BENESSE

I feel the same way, D.
Stop and search me all you want. These are different times and I'm willing to adjust. Only recently, people were kvetching about Big Brother and all the cameras on the streets and stores watching their every move. Well, guess what? Maybe one of those cameras will nail the MOFO who did this, and I can live with that.

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## Ken

Double post!

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## crashdive123

> All, or most all, prisoners in Boston Federal Court are brought in like that.  Tinted window van, rear enterance (Sally Port).  The FBI has a large office in the Courthouse in addition to their main office near Government Center.


That's what I was figuring.  The conspiracy side of me said....bomb scare - get all of the people out of the way - bring in "high value" prisoner.  I can't think of many logical reasons to bring a prisoner to the courthouse during a bomb scare.

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## welderguy

> "Damn I can't wear all black.... I'll stand out too much what can I do to look less conspicuous???" "OH I KNOW I'll buy a bright brand new white Hat!"
> 
> See something Say something, Living in NYC after 911 I was stopped after class late at night around 10pm coming home with a huge backpack full of text books. Car bat was dead and didn't feel like waiting around so hopped on the train, I didn't argue or complain just let the officers look in the bag. They seemed so surprised that it was text books, maybe thought it was drugs or a bomb dunno.
> 
> Point is All the talk of loss of civil liberties going around rubs me the wrong way. I'm more than ok with an officer searching my bag, I can't stand the thought of losing the right to bear arms. The difference for me? Checking bags does not hurt good people only bad, bad people will always find a way to arm themselves, They will make improvised explosive devices, and break the law to pursue their ends.
> 
> So people complain about stop and search being implemented with less need for cause while praising stricter gun control laws that make no sense and little difference from stop bad people from doing bad things.
> 
> /rantoff


 I have one issue with this. If you want to check my bag Fine but ya damn well better check every other bag you see too. I have issues with picking and choosing who gets what treatment.

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## Ken

> I have one issue with this. If you want to check my bag Fine but ya damn well better check every other bag you see too. I have issues with picking and choosing who gets what treatment.


It depends on what "bag" and where.  My briefcase is ABSOLUTELY OFF LIMITS.

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## Ken

> That's what I was figuring.  The conspiracy side of me said....bomb scare - get all of the people out of the way - bring in "high value" prisoner.  I can't think of many logical reasons to bring a prisoner to the courthouse during a bomb scare.


Sad that those thoughts even enter our minds.  Even sadder that we have good reason to have those thoughts.

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## welderguy

> It depends on what "bag" and where.  My briefcase is ABSOLUTELY OFF LIMITS.


 I have no off limit bags, and I have no problem allowing them to search it, however my issue would be if , they walked by a dozen people with bags and im the only one they ask , Hell no get a warrant. if its everyone that has a bag is getting checked then no problem.

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## LowKey

We were waiting for news on the arrest. The minute they said 'bomb scare' several of us at work looked at each other and said, "yeah, right".

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## Ken

> I have no off limit bags, and I have no problem allowing them to search it, however my issue would be if , they walked by a dozen people with bags and im the only one they ask , Hell no get a warrant. if its everyone that has a bag is getting checked then no problem.


It's a bit different for me. Even during my "off" hours, I have to carry some very sensitive things, like my cellphone with (some encrypted) e-mails; my pocket calendar... crap, even some of the NAMES in there are confidential. It's that Bill of Rights stuff.

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## welderguy

> It's a bit different for me. Even during my "off" hours, I have to carry some very sensitive things, like my cellphone with (some encrypted) e-mails; my pocket calendar... crap, even some of the NAMES in there are confidential. It's that Bill of Rights stuff.


 I think after the first time I was asked, i would have to print off a bunch of pictures of myself naked. and some other personal type toys just to mess with them. heck maybe even a blow up sheep.

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## rebel

I think after the first time I was asked, i would have to print off a bunch of pictures of myself naked. and some other personal type toys just to mess with them. heck maybe even a blow up PELOSI.

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## Ken

> I think after the first time I was asked, i would have to print off a bunch of pictures of myself naked. and some other personal type toys just to mess with them. heck maybe even a blow up sheep.





> I think after the first time I was asked, i would have to print off a bunch of pictures of myself naked. and some other personal type toys just to mess with them. heck maybe even a blow up PELOSI.


Sick minds.  THAT'S why I like hanging around here!

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## welderguy

> I think after the first time I was asked, i would have to print off a bunch of pictures of myself naked. and some other personal type toys just to mess with them. heck maybe even a blow up PELOSI.


 You are a sick sick man,,, Thats why i like ya!!!

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## Rick

Nobody but nobody is rummaging through my hongs!

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## Davidlastink

I was admittedly out of place, but If you really do have a reason to fight a search do so, let em call in for a warrant make but more often then not, it protects the drug dealer or jack head who does something/ is hiding something.

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## welderguy

> I was admittedly out of place, but If you really do have a reason to fight a search do so, let em call in for a warrant make but more often then not, it protects the drug dealer or jack head who does something/ is hiding something.


Having a little experience in the that field, Most drug dealers do not carry a back pack or bag makes running a lot harder and several other reasons. The only time a search is done is for suspicion or profiling. If a person is approached and a valid reason is given. I.E. there was a hold up at mom's corner store and you fit the description etc etc . valid reason, for you to be riding a bus or train and them just see a large bag and say hey come here were going to search you. Nope aint happening!!!

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## BENESSE

Just last month, while waiting in line at the gate to board a flight, I was pulled aside and my carry on was checked as was the case with a few people ahead of me. All was fine. They were respectful and it's just one of those things we go through. WhatchaGonnaDo? Not gonna make a Federal case out of it.

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## welderguy

> Nobody but nobody is rummaging through my hongs!


 Im pretty sure that the last place anyone wants to rummage through....just sayin!!!

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## Davidlastink

Well yes I know there are levels of suspicion needed

No suspicion you can walk away flip the bird w/e
Founded they can stop and ask questions
Reasonable they can stop and search
Probable they can arrest and search for concealed weapons, contraband found must be reasonably similar to what might appear as a concealed weapon for it to be admissible.

My point was more along the lines of searching containers In certain "Public" spaces it should be required for passage through or into. You don't like it leave the bag at home or don't go there, turn around find a different route. They post up an area as "required Search" and that area becomes required search no need for judge/warrant/ amendment to constitution, everyone subject to search and dog sniffing don't like it then again you have options including not going there. I have nothing to Hide, and sensitive information of clients etc which I'm required to keep confidential are normally left at the office or on my PC which has a password. So yeah search my bags I don't care.

However my larger point was that stricter gun control laws are being praised by many, because it makes us safer, but criminals don't follow the law. Compare NYC to Texas NYC has extremely strict gun laws Texas very lax in comparison. Crime Rate? NYC> Texas every year. Our legislators need to stop with the knee jerk law making sit down and think about the big picture, trust me Terrorist do, China does, heck even N. Korea plays the forward thinking game, why can't we as a country get our collective heads out of the sand and stop being surprised by these "surprise" attacks... they are predictable and bound to happen tragic yes but not surprising.

/rant off

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## crashdive123

Funny story about rummaging through bags....


Many, many years ago when I did Submarine Deterrent Patrols out of Guam several of us discovered that it was soooooooo much easier to mail our sea bags back to Hawaii and avoid the hassle at the airport with customs.  After all......had been away for a long time and really didn't want to hang around the airport any longer than necessary.

Our bags still went through customs on the Guam side, but that was with Military Customs Inspectors.  I was one of those inspectors.  Anyway it was common knowledge at the time that the bags of Serviceman being mailed from overseas would be inspected.  We found that about a weeks work of dirty laundry (Submarines have a unique smell) at the top of the bag resulted in very little scrutiny of the rest of the bag.

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## Rick

I would have to imagine the customs guys went something like....

Chief mumbling: "Holy carp! That smells like dead chit. O'brien!!!"
Obrien: "Yes, Chief?" 
Chief: "Inspect this bag."

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## letslearntogether47

Odd,but,there's is something wierd about the 20 y.o. Saudi national in the hospital.
He was actually tackled at the scene.
He was initially a suspect or"person of interest".
Now on Tuesday,from what I understand,J. Kerry was speaking with Saudi officials.
Now I here this national is going to be deported Tues.


Why?A possible witness?
Is it because he's not cooperating with the investigation?

I'm not a conspiracy nut,but this is pretty bizzare,to say the least.

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## Rick

Uh, maybe his green card had expired and he was here illegally? Naaah. Let's go with conspiracy.

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## letslearntogether47

There is no need for a green card in Ma.,Rick.lol

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## Ken

*Boston Marathon spectator Salah  Barhoum, who was interviewed by authorities following the bombings, swears he  'didn't do it'**A photo of Barhoum,  17, from Revere, Mass. was splashed all over the world as a possible suspect in  Boston bombing. But Barhoum says he and a pal were just watching the race.*
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1320766

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## letslearntogether47

This is the one that has me confused.Why so quick to deport him?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...nds-next-week/

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## Ken

> This is the one that has me confused.Why so quick to deport him?
> 
> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...nds-next-week/



The *"SOMETHING'S FISHY ABOUT THIS"* flag is waving in our faces.  He's not going because of unpaid parking tickets, that's for sure.

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## BENESSE

Just saw the live FBI briefing. Video of suspects shown...they kinda sorta look Caucasian.
Let's prepare ourselves for a distinct possibility that it's our own scumbuckets who did this.

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## Davidlastink

Yeah wouldn't be surprised. people would go through extreme measures to "Protest" but imagine what such zeal/insanity would do if put towards lobbying or some other legal means of effecting outcomes in our government.

Edit:
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/CISPA-Wh...ews-16960.html
The implications are grand and people don't even understand what this means.

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## Rick

I have also had problems with CISPA. Let's hope the Senate kills it again. In my previous life it wasn't cyber terrorism but drug deals that we would quite often be privileged to. Of course, we were mandated by federal law so we could not reveal any information we had gathered. Anonymous tips work quite well, however. The same can still apply even in these situations.

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## Rick

If he were living in the U.S. as a Saudi national he would need a visa. While some tourists are exempt, dependent upon their country, Saudi Arabia is not included. If he was here on business or just as a tourist then he can legally be here 90 days without a visa. Student, employment, media or resident all require a visa.

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## JPGreco

Interesting enough, the Taliban has denied any and all connection to the bombings.  Not to say I trust them and they're good guys or anything, but I do believe them in this case as for them personally, they are trying to lay low and rebuild.  One of their leaders was quoted as saying before al queda's actions on 9-11, the Taliban controlled 90% of afghanistan.  Now they control very little.  They are trying to avoid any more conflict to rebuild, which makes sense to me.  Though they did say they still support the terrorist organizations, which basically makes their statements moot, but I still found it interesting.

Regardless, our current situation has us fighting splinter cells that may call themselves anything.  Whether they have any actual connection to those groups is impossible to really know.

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## crashdive123

One suspect dead and the other on the run in the Watertown area.  The reporting this morning said "These are terrorists that came to this country to kill people".

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## crashdive123

One report this morning...

After they killed a police officer (MIT campus police) and stole an SUV a chase ensued.  They were shooting and tossing explosives out of the vehicle.  On the dead one.......a doctor said there were shrapnel wounds and too many bullet wounds to count.  GOOD!  

Now being reported that they are either Russian or Chechnyan.

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## letslearntogether47

Watertown Ma. is in lock down.
One suspect is dead and there's a door to door search for the other suspect.
MIT officer is dead.News are unfolding by the minute.

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## Ken

Glued to the TV.  My youngest son's college campus has cancelled classes.  His clinical at Boston Medical Center was also cancelled.  For all intents and purposes, the Greater Boston area is on lockdown.

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## letslearntogether47

They have a home surrounded in Dexter Street, Watertown right now.
Blood found on the back porch.

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## Ken

LOCAL PING ALERT I RECEIVED:

Alert Title: Ongoing Active Manhunt 
Alert Text: Ongoing manhunt for suspect. MBTA shut down. Residents in Watertown, Newton, Waltham, Belmont, Cambridge and the Alston Brighton STAY INDOORS. Businesses closed in these areas 
Alert Link: Link 


About ping4alerts!: See Ping4.com






Sent from my iPhone

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## oly

I hope no more innocent people get hurt while they take this freak out. Police dogs included.

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## letslearntogether47

Just heard they are suiting up and getting ready to go into that residence in Watertown.
Almost certain they'll have a body or prisoner in a very short time.

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## BENESSE

The only relevant thing _might_ be that they're Muslim. And Chechnyan--usually critical of Russia not the US.
Other than that, it's a mystery what their beef was.

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## letslearntogether47

Yup,the suspects were identified by law enforcement officials and a family member as Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev, brothers from a Russian region near Chechnya, which has been plagued by an Islamic insurgency stemming from separatist wars.

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## rebel

One word, muslim.

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## Ken

Nice, ABC news just reported that suspect 2 is enrolled at UMass Dartmouth.  The school is on lockdown.  I received both of my undergraduate degrees from UMass Dartmouth, and it was one of the universities I taught at for about 10 years.

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## Wildthang

Just getting shot is not good enough for those scumbags :Angry:

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## BENESSE

We'll try to make sense out of all this and _them,_ but in the end, extremism has many faces and some of them have been our own.

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## Ken

Suspect 2 goes to school about a mile away from Stargazer's home.

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## letslearntogether47

I hope if he does live they extract all the info they can.And then put him to death asap.

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## Seniorman

> I hope if he does live they extract all the info they can.And then put him to death asap.


Ken, does Mass. have the Death Penalty??  I thought Mass. had banned the Death Penalty, so the tax payers and the relatives of victims of murderous criminals could pay for the murderers to live-for-life in prison, along with their peers.

Just wondering.


S.M.

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## letslearntogether47

The voters of Mass voted *for* the death penalty twice.It was shot down by the dopes on Beacon Hill.
Sal Demasi and Tom Finneran have both been convicted of felonies.
This however would be a federal crime,so the death penalty would be enforced here.
BTW,I'm not Ken,my name is Bob.
I suspect there's going to be another push for the death penalty in Ma.
I hope it gets through this next time.And not shot down by the....well....I wont go into politics.

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## Ken

> Ken, does Mass. have the Death Penalty??  S.M.


Lawyer's Answer:  Yes and No.

We still have a law on the books, but our Supreme Judicial Court held it to be unconstitutional.

Long story on that one.  HOWEVER, this "Suspect 2" is certainly eligible for the Death Penalty under FEDERAL LAW.

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## LowKey

I thought this state's SJC deemed that the Constitution didn't apply here.

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## Ken

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## rebel

Looks like they caught the guy

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## kyratshooter

They have decided;

The suspect's Constitutional protections have been suspended in the interest of public safety????

After all the posturing of the past week that may sound good to some, what with the threats of skinning, scalping, disembowelment and all.

But it scares the crap out of me!

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## Ken

> But it scares the crap out of me!


A LOT of it scares me. Are we setting Fourth Amendment precedent?  I need to mull this over, but I'll be posting about it soon.

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## Davidlastink

Keep mouth shut only ask for lawyer. If he does this he "Technically" will be fine.

However there isn't much out there on exactly how HIG handles these things.

Bottom Line this is dangerous ground, leads to things like martial law being implemented due to an "active" conflict taking place on U.S soil and the interests of safety. Safety has always been the cloak Totalitarian governments use to feed the masses their daily dose of tyrannical control. But I put the horse before the cart so to speak.

So whom qualifies as an "enemy belligerent to the U.S?"
Whats the period of effect?
Would a suspect of drug/illegal dealing with Foreign threats be subject?

Today's world allows a kid sitting in his basement to connect with all kinds of nasty out there. He connects to some guy in Iran once and this info comes to the notice of the Local DA then they start pushing for cases to become federal. The HIG team becomes something that has to be expanded and they start popping up in every major city... So instead of "High Priority, its Sort of maybe High Priority detainees (not suspects even, because we are not talking about crimes, its FUTURE threats here)

But yeah its all good, because he is a terrorist, not suspected it is 100% certain. It will be OK they won't push on this and look to broaden the "capabilities" of this special task force. Anyone ever hear of how the FBI began? (No, I am not saying the FBI is bad, but think of the FBI with out the constitution... that's terrifying.)


Edit: If the Dude catches a bullet or shank I could care less, if he did it hes below scum if he didn't the stuff he pulled to escape warrants it. The person isn't whats important here its the things that will reverberate forward through time that is.

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## Rick

David Sarti anyone?

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## Davidlastink

Yeah but instead of losing you property and right to bear arms you lose your liberty and right to due process.

Joking aside some real nasty things are capable with these here safety measures. Nevermind the conspiracy nuts with their men in black and secret interrogations this make the men in black an all too real entity. These guys ain't going to be shooting aliens either the human or mqrtian kind but citizens of this our free nation.
BUT HEY THE TRAINS WILL RUN ON TIME!!

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## Rick

Is it just me or do you think someone intent on placing a bomb might want to do a bit of surveillance before hand to see how many cameras are set up? I'm not familiar with the Boston Marathon route. You might not suspect this but I don't participate. In any case, I have to believe there were other locations that might have garnered more casualties if you're into that sort of thing. How do 2 guys that are smart enough to construct bombs and not actually blow themselves up in the process be so stupid with regard to surveillance cameras? There are round parts to this square puzzle that I don't understand.

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## Ken

Why surveilance?  How about a simple disguise?  You know, fake beard, mustache, wig, some makeup (Sarge can tell you a lot about using makeup) sunglasses....

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## Rick

Here's another sort of rhetorical question. How long can a news station continue to repeat the exact same thing by different reporters using slightly different camera angles? Even today they are talking about the man in the boat. Move along folks. Nothing on this channel to see.

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## BENESSE

> Why surveilance?  How about a simple disguise?  You know, fake beard, mustache, wig, some makeup (Sarge can tell you a lot about using makeup) sunglasses....


I was thinking the same thing; at least put on a sheep mask, for Pete's sake!




> Here's another sort of rhetorical question. How long  can a news station continue to repeat the exact same thing by different  reporters using slightly different camera angles? Even today they are  talking about the man in the boat. Move along folks. Nothing on this  channel to see.


They're gonna drive it into the ground til everyone hates everyone else and is immune to _X lit up a room any time he entered it_. And the constant..._why...what drove them to it...why did they change from nice boys_, etc, etc.

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## Davidlastink

I like Cheese.
However I will not blow up Switzerland if I can't get any more Swiss cheese.
So these guys were so disgruntled about something they did something else horrific as a means of reprisal. Hmmmmmmmm JEEZE U.S foreign policy and immigration is the reason this all happened (so lets make borders oppens and give an acre and mule to everyone! except U.S citizens born here of course they can work and pay taxes/ follow the laws). 

But oh wait we are now working closer with Russia on counter-terrorism matters.

True Story: China perpetrates more attacks on the U.S in an day then the combined attacks on the U.S by any other government or terrorist group to date. These are just cyber attacks however, which can only cause financial instability and economic ramifications as well as intelligence breaches. 


Who cares what makes people do what they do... It usually is the same for the most part if you take the time to study a person in depth. Russian, Chech, Chinese, American, Wacko, Whoopie Cushion. None of it matters if nothing is learned on how to prevent it in the future.

I ramble a lot... my mind is a tricky tricky maze so don't get lost.

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## kyratshooter

Viewing this from an urban survival standpoint, with no pro or con opinions of the person, idals or philosophies,

HOW DOES;

an untrained 19 year old pull off an historic terriorist act

stay calm and go about his normal life for 4 days

Go on a sudden crime spree and commit 3-4 criminal acts in 30 minutes

Drive through a firefight like he was trained by Blackwater

escape an instantly formed parimeter 

leave no scent for tracker dogs while leaving a blood trail

Elude 10,000 LEO for 24 hours 

still have enough strength to put up resistance when cornered even though he had suffered blood loss for his entire evasion

I am not presenting a conspiracy theory, I am simply wondering if I have underestimated the capabilities of young "sheeple", their motivation and instantly acquirable urban combat skills!

Remember that the 19 year old was NOT the one suspected of returning to Russia for training.  

This kid ain't like the kids I taught in HS, even if he did wear his hat backwards.

And what if there had been 50 of them?

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## Rick

Practice......lots of practice. and it ain't easy practicing getting shot but it does toughen you up.

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## BENESSE

Set it to music, Kyrat. What's _your_ theory?

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## Davidlastink

Hes from the future so he knew all the right moves.

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## kyratshooter

> Set it to music, Kyrat. What's _your_ theory?


I have no theory, only curiosity and a desire to know more than I speculate we will ever learn.    

That kid missed his calling, he should have been signed up as a pretraineed recruit by Special Forces!  I have taught thousands of kids over the years and probably had 3-4 in that 35 years that might be capable of doing what he did without a hint of nervousness in any of the pictures or without slipping up and acting strangely around friends after the event, or even having friends.  All were sociopaths, and this terrorist kid does not have that profile.

We are getting the media show for the masses, face time for the politicians and a package tied up with a neat little ribbon.  The media/political complex at its best.  

What do they do to the Islamic people in Boston anyway?  You send an arab to Atlanta and he mellows out, gets a job at the 7/11, buys a house, walks his dog and dies of old age.  Send him to Boston and he steals jets, runs them into skyscrapers and blows up folks down at the festival!

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## Solar Geek

> Viewing this from an urban survival standpoint, with no pro or con opinions of the person, idals or philosophies,
> 
> HOW DOES;
> 
> an untrained 19 year old pull off an historic terriorist act
> 
> stay calm and go about his normal life for 4 days
> 
> Go on a sudden crime spree and commit 3-4 criminal acts in 30 minutes
> ...


You have hit the nail on the head. HOW could he do all this? Without help? 
But the most sad and terrifying part of it (assuming it is true), the police chief said THE YOUNG KID RAN OVER AND KILLED HIS OWN BROTHER. On purpose. Aiming the SUV at him.

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## Ken

> Practice......lots of practice.


Speaking of which.....  It's beginning to make a slight bit of sense as to why DHS may have ordered 1.8 Billion rounds.  What ever happened to "One Shot - One Kill?"

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## LowKey

Yah, I hope no one in that crowd ever said, "If you can't hit em with 10 rounds you need to go to the range and practice more."

I hope that the guy who went out for a smoke and a look at his boat (and you know he was out there thinking about putting it in the water) at least got an AttaBoy for finding the suspect. And the reward if there was one. He's gonna need a new boat. That one will never see the water again.

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## kyratshooter

Anyone else notice all the administrative warnings over the radios about avoiding circular firing squad situations throughout this event?

AVOID CROSSFIRES!!
AVOID CROSSFIRES!!

When they cornered the vehicle they did not manage to take down the older suspect, standing in the open at 10 feet, until he had to reload.  Then it required an estimated 200 rounds.

We do have sone really good references on what would make an excellent urban BOV!  Apparently you can drive a Mercades SUV  in one side of a firefight and out the other.

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## BENESSE

> What ever happened to "One Shot - One Kill?"


I guess that's now only reserved for highly trained snipers, not the run of the mill LE. One would think they would require more of themselves, if not to protect innocent bystanders, than to save their own hide.

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## BENESSE

Great example of this LE shooting incompetence happened in August near Empire State bldg. when the police fired on a murderer (who was trying to flee didn't even have a gun in his hand) and hit 9 other people. All this at a busy time in the morning, at one of the busiest locations in the city.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1245247

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## Ken

> And the constant..._why...what drove them to it...why did they change from nice boys_, etc, etc.



The answer is simple:  Hatred and Radical Islamic Indoctrination.

(There's a book that) "contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.....    Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret (that) book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable."

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/qu...3-violence.htm


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## Pal334

Ken ^5,, Glad I am not the only one that voices this out loud. It is not "profiling" simply a recognition of their faith and its impact on US

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## Ken

> Ken ^5,, Glad I am not the only one that voices this out loud. It is not "profiling" simply a recognition of their faith and its impact on US


I think that we (those of us here, anyway) all agree that they're TERRORISTS.  They have chosen to call themselves MUSLIM and always claim to be acting in obedience to their faith.  The term MUSLIM TERRORISTS simply identifies WHO they are and WHAT they are.

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## Davidlastink

Actually the entire muslim faith is a really interesting one. Never really passed into a love and flowers religion though. Truss itsbthe area and history of constant conflict that shaped the religion. While Christianity had periods of peace and prosperity as did jeudism muslim history has always been full of conflict, non-stop and severe.

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## BENESSE

I can certainly understand Ken's & Pal's sentiments on an emotional level. But to revert to the corny, slippery slope argument, it's a dangerous road to take. I know that Ken as a lawyer, knows better and we _are_ a country of laws, after all. There are ways to deal with this malignancy without stooping to their level...we are better than that.

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## Ken

> I can certainly understand Ken's & Pal's sentiments on an emotional level. But to revert to the corny, slippery slope argument, it's a dangerous road to take. I know that Ken as a lawyer, knows better and we _are_ a country of laws, after all. There are ways to deal with this malignancy without stooping to their level...we are better than that.


Benesse, I'm neither advocating discrimination against Muslims nor am I suggesting that every member of their religion is radical, violent, or supportive of such crimes against humanity.  However, the FACT remains that the radical members of that faith are haters, either through their upbringing or through indoctrination, and they choose to rely on some of the writings OF THEIR FAITH to justify their crimes against humanity.  

Regardless of that fact, senseless (to us) acts of violence like Boston play out every single day in our world.  It's rare that it happens here, but when it does it tends to get our attention in a huge way.  

Many of us have not failed to notice that nations that follow Sharia Law engage in official government actions that many of us find barbaric.  Does anyone here care to defend stoning a 12-year-old rape VICTIM to death?  THOSE acts are also based on a radical interpretation of the Muslim faith.  

The problem we have is that far too many of the radical elements have managed to blend into the mainstream of our society.  Does that mean that all Muslims should be suspect?  Perhaps not, but common sense dictates that AS A CULTURE they are more likely to produce a terrorist bomber than Tibetan Buddhists or Scottish Americans or Lakota Indians or American Eskimos.  

Muslims have produced more violent radicals, who have attacked Americans here and abroad, than any other present-day culture.  These radicals identify themselves as Muslims who claim to be _acting in accordance with their faith,_ and they are terrorists.  Therefore, I believe that the term "Muslim Terrorists" is neither bigoted nor insensitive.  Instead, it's a very accurate description of one of our most dangerous enemies.

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## Davidlastink

History is a great way to find out how the future will unfold. The current conflict is nothing new. Ever hear of the crusades? In a way that conflict never truly resolved itself. The muslim faith as it exists today is in large due to the shaping events of empire building following the expansionist/ imperialist events which shaped the last 500 centuries.

The western christian world has since the 4th century been in opposition to the middle eastern muslim world. This isn't about religion its about an age old conflict of empire and resources. We have and they feel that they deserve to have. Thing is with finite resources conflict is inevitable.
To further compound the problem there is little separation of church and state for most predominant muslim nations thus militant political/ economic motives often get plastered with a thin religious facade for justification. 

I can easily use almost any religion as justification for any act.

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## Ken

> I can easily use almost any religion as justification for any act.


Great!  Any chance you can help me justify having a 5-scoop ice cream sundae with french vanilla ice cream smothered with butterscotch and marshmallow sauces, whipped cream, chopped walnuts, and several cherries?  

Help me.  Please.  I want one so bad and I need a reason.........   :Innocent:

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## kyratshooter

You are about 300 years late with the beginnings of conflict!

Battles between believing and nonbelieving tribes ensued even while Mohamed was alive.  

The new religion swept across the mid east and N Africa, which had a strng Christian population (several of the early Popes were Syrian), and the advance came to a hault in central France at the Battle of Tours

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

This was a religion that was borm in and of armed conflict.

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## crashdive123

> Great!  Any chance you can help me justify having a 5-scoop ice cream sundae with french vanilla ice cream smothered with butterscotch and marshmallow sauces, whipped cream, chopped walnuts, and several cherries?  
> 
> *Help me.  Please.  I want one so bad and I need a reason.*........


Because you can.


How's that for help?

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## Ken

> Because you can.
> 
> 
> How's that for help?


Every single one of my belts is 4" shorter that they were in November.  This is a struggle....  :eyore:

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## crashdive123

Stop buying small belts.

There ---- more help.

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## Rick

From a purely historical perspective, the Persian Empire has existed in the form of one dynasty or another since the second millenium BC. That's over 4000 years. Rome waged war with Persia for over 700 of those years. Ghengis Khan invade them as did Timur. As DLL said, this is a history or horrific violence. Around 1500 BC +/- Islam became the official religion of Persia. It has remained the official religion ever since. Today, we know that country as Iran and their goal is to reestablish the Persian Empire as it existed around the year 900 BC, which stretched from the western border of Turkey to the eastern border of Afghanistan and south encompassing most of the Persian Gulf. It's an ambitious goal but not entirely an impossible goal.

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## kyratshooter

Not accurate information at all Rick!!!

Islam was not created as a religion until 620-630ad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam

That is a 1000 year time variation.  

It's origin was on the Arabian pennsulia and not Persia.

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## letslearntogether47

I think they needed more practice getting away.I'm hearing the younger brother ran over his brother escaping the fire fight.
Older brother spend 6 months over in his home country.Training possibly?

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## Davidlastink

313 A.D Edict of Milan and start of the institutionalization of Catholic/ Christian Faith

Roman empire begins to decline and around 450AD Germanic tribes are in rome and "Rome" no longer is an empire

Eastern Roman Empire holds out, declines between 1000AD and 1450AD

Much Conflict between Eastern Roman Empire and Arabs, Turks. Pretty much the entire Middle East which by geography and circumstance turns out to be Muslim (if there was no middle east and ERE(Eastern Roman Empire) bordered Mongolia you get the picture)

Crusades 1095-1291AD ERE is seeing some big defeats and calls on their "western brothers" for help. Catholic church (which was more of a governmental system than religious one at this time) Calls up troops and paints a picture of HOLY WAR. In truth ERE gave the Pope lots gold/riches.

These Conflicts have never truly died one form or another Western Powers have been in the middle east in direct conflict with these Arab/Persian nations.

Problem is PR always gets in the way of wise solid military thought. So instead of going old school and taking over the area and stomping out resistance most of the Modern powers have kitty footed around and allowed rebellion to fester. If Alexander with spears and Calvary was able to take over this region no reason that Britain or France could not have done the same. However "Global conquest" took the back seat to "Trade Empire" and while the latter made monarchs rich Global Conquest made centuries of prosperity for all if done correctly. (FYI Global is not truly acurate but refers to the European, Middle Eastern and North African territories.)

So this is just as much political if not more so, than it is Religious.



Side note: Also There is no law against enjoying a 5 scoop Sundae, especially on Sunday it is why they were created cus no alcohol. Just don't do it everyday cus that is gluttony and that is a no no. Or Just go with The world and sundae are just there to be experienced and shed so that you might reach enlightenment.

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## Davidlastink

Just to clarify. Muslim Terrorist is acurate but so would be Chechnyian or Iranian if links were found to Iran. Heck one can even go Jihadist and most likely be accurate. Does not really matter. Hate is hate don't matter what you call it its bad all around and until we light up the dark ain't never going to be no different. Oh yeah I went there Bob Marley reference FTW.

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## Rick

> Not accurate information at all Rick!!!




Aaaah!!! I meant AD. Mea Culpa!! The brain was engaged but the fingers apparently weren't. Sorry. My intent was not the start of the Islamic religion but it's adoption in Persia.

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## letslearntogether47

Nobody from
The hate church Westboro showed.

http://boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/...CgP/story.html

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## Davidlastink

Mea maxima culpa? Are you not ashamed? Lol

Persia even had enemies in the muslim faith. Thing is if you look at china you see just as much conflict and violence but their historians seem to keep it more real and call a duck a duck. A lot less jabber about religions and a lot more talk about governing dynasties and socio/economic causes of conflict.

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## Ken

On April 15th, while we were focused on Boston....

In Kamaliya, Iraq - 4 dead, 13 injured - al-Qaeda bombing near an elementary school leaves four dead. 

In Habibiya , Iraq  10 dead, 12 injured -  At least ten Iraqis at an auto mall are taken out by Mujahid car bombers. 

In Umm al-Maalif, Iraq  4 dead, 15 injured - Islamic bombers destroy a market, along with four patrons. 
 
In Baghdad, Iraq  4 dead, 29 injured - Two Mujahid bombings leave four dead at a commercial district. 

In Tuz Khurmatu, Iraq  6 dead, 67 injured - Six people are torn to shreds by al-Qaeda bombers. 

In Khalis, Iraq  1 dead, 8 injured -  Mujahideen bombers murder a child. 

In Nasiriyah, Iraq  2 dead, 14 injured - Two civilians are sent to Allah by al-Qaeda bombers. 

In Mussayab, Iraq  2 dead, 13 injured - Religious extremists car bomb an open air market, killing at least two. 

In Karachi, Pakistan  1 dead -  Lashkar-e-Jhangvi murder a man for being aShiite. 

In Banjot, Pakistan  1 dead - A secular-leaning politician is blown to bits by fundamentalist bombers. 

In Mali Zai, Afghanistan - 7 dead 4 injured - Seven civilians are blown to pieces by Taliban bombers.

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## letslearntogether47

Did you see this?
Seems this guy has been flying under the radar for years.

http://news.yahoo.com/boston-bomb-su...opstories.html

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## rebel

Yea, it's a peaceful religion: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3122282.html

It feels like the battered woman story. "he didn't mean to beat the carp out of me, he loves me"   A few beatings later, she's dead.  

I wouldn't get cocky with the Boston apprehension.  July 4th parades are coming.  I doubt there are enough bomb sniffing dogs to cover every parade.

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## Ken

Sunni - Shi'ite

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## Ken

The Criminal Complaint filed in Federal District Court

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...complaint.html

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## rebel

> The Criminal Complaint filed in Federal District Court
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...complaint.html


Thanks for the first hand insight into your world.

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## Ken

> Thanks for the first hand insight into your world.


There's a great view of Boston Harbor just outside of the courtrooms.


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## rebel

> There's a great view of Boston Harbor just outside of the courtrooms.
> 
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


If I had ten lives, one would've been around Boston.

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## Ken

> If I had ten lives, one would've been around Boston.


Make sure you spend some time at the new Seaport District.  

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The District has been transformed in the past 10 years.
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The Federal Court is the building on the lower left.

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## Davidlastink

Very interesting and truth be told they would of had a much better chance of getting away with this if they would of simply slipped out of the country to canada and then on from there.

Wonder how in the heck they will provide an impartial jury of peers... hmmm or maybe they will just ignore that too.

I would also challenge the constitutionality of the suspension of Miranda warning. A bill passed does not a constituionaly valid law make. I see some interesting issues here.

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## Rick

I'm completely unbiased and impartial. I could be a juror. I don't think we should hang him until AFTER he gets a fair trial.

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## crashdive123

> Very interesting and truth be told they would of had a much better chance of getting away with this if they would of simply slipped out of the country to canada and then on from there.
> 
> Wonder how in the heck they will provide an impartial jury of peers... hmmm or maybe they will just ignore that too.
> 
> I would also challenge the constitutionality of the suspension of Miranda warning. A bill passed does not a constituionaly valid law make. I see some interesting issues here.


The suspension of Miranda for "public safety" stemmed from a 1980 case and has been through the courts already.  http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...1/legal_digest

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## rebel

" The more things change, the more they stay the same"

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## Ken

*Boston Marathon Bombing: What the Suspects' Arsenal Reveals
*
"The New York Times identified the rifle as an M-4 carbine, a weapon capable of firing in multi-bullet bursts."


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/04...rsenal-reveals

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## rebel

He had a 9/11 party.  Does that say something for you liberals?

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## Davidlastink

> The suspension of Miranda for "public safety" stemmed from a 1980 case and has been through the courts already.  http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...1/legal_digest


Argue current case is  distinguished from said case as the threat was imminent. While possible explosives hidden which might be triggered at a much later time are outside the contemporaneous bubble danger existing in that of the Quarles case, Namely that a loaded gun which may be picked up by any passer by, including children.

Constitutionality of laws relies heavily on time and scope. His lawyer simply need to distinguish this case from any precedent.

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## LowKey

Or they simply ask him questions they don't care are inadmissible in court. I still don't like the idea of suspension of rights of a citizen. Even when the crime is this obviously heinous. 
I'm seeing new photos in the paper from the marathon day showing much clearer images of these two guys than the two or three the FBI showed earlier when asking for ID...maybe they have all the incriminating evidence they need and those photos were just to flush them out.

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## rebel

> Argue current case is  distinguished from said case as the threat was imminent. While possible explosives hidden which might be triggered at a much later time are outside the contemporaneous bubble danger existing in that of the Quarles case, Namely that a loaded gun which may be picked up by any passer by, including children.
> 
> Constitutionality of laws relies heavily on time and scope. His lawyer simply need to distinguish this case from any precedent.


No wonder y'all are shot first.

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## crashdive123

> Or they simply ask him questions they don't care are inadmissible in court. I still don't like the idea of suspension of rights of a citizen. Even when the crime is this obviously heinous. 
> I'm seeing new photos in the paper from the marathon day showing much clearer images of these two guys than the two or three the FBI showed earlier when asking for ID...maybe they have all the incriminating evidence they need and those photos were just to flush them out.


Those clearer photos are actually from a guy here in Jacksonville.  He ran the race and took a few pics with his I Phone and then uploaded them to his Facebook page.  He was later contacted by the FBI.  http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Jac...q/-/index.html

This also shows that the data mining software is pretty danged advanced, which as an "unrelated" thought reminds us to not post things that you wouldn't want the rest of the world to read.

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## Davidlastink

That and these sites are watched closely and included in every basic watchlist. Also sites on anarchy, piracy (swashbuckler and data) lots of "ify" sites.

Also usually the first people to stand up for right or wrong are the first shot. C'est la vie, or end to it.

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## Ken

> This also shows that the data mining software is pretty danged advanced, which as an "unrelated" thought reminds us to not post things that you wouldn't want the rest of the world to read.


You ain't kidding.  I posted a comment about caviar on RandyRhoads sturgeon thread, and the next thing I see at the top of the Forums page is this:  

Red-Caviar.com High Quality Red Caviar Easy online ordering. Fast Shipping www.red-caviar.com

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## Davidlastink

Yum salty balls of water goodness. That will land u in gitmo be careful. You wont be charged or mirandized because you are an enemy of the state and support Russian supremacy.

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## rebel

The bombers' mother may have had a big influence on her sons.  Thanks mom.

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## Ken

> The bombers' mother may have had a big influence on her sons.  Thanks mom.


Shhhh.  She's already angry enough.  Didn't you read that her husband said they may sue us?

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## kyratshooter

I just saw on the news tonight that it is suspected they obtained their explosives by breaking down hundreds of dollars worth of fireworks they had purchased just a few weeks ago.

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## Ken

> The bombers' mother may have had a big influence on her sons.  Thanks mom.


".....did you know Mrs. Tsarnaev has an outstanding criminal warrant against her? The mother defaulted last October on charges of larceny and malicious destruction of property resulting from a June 2012 shoplifting arrest at Lord & Taylor at the Natick Mall."

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion..._welfare_state

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## rebel

> ".....did you know Mrs. Tsarnaev has an outstanding criminal warrant against her? The mother defaulted last October on charges of larceny and malicious destruction of property resulting from a June 2012 shoplifting arrest at Lord & Taylor at the Natick Mall."
> 
> http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion..._welfare_state


Any reward money for bringing her in?  $$$$$   I'll throw in a few bucks for a video of her being tazed and hog tied.

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## Ken

> Any reward money for bringing her in?  $$$$$   I'll throw in a few bucks for a video of her being tazed and hog tied.


I still prefer the old methods.
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## letslearntogether47

I like the nick names they gave the two terrorist.

Speed bump and flash bang.

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## Seniorman

> " ... 
> Wonder how in the heck they will provide an impartial jury of peers..."


Just as a point of information, there is no mention in the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights about "a jury of one's peers."

ARTICLE SIX: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial , by an IMPARTIAL jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed..." 

Afterall, if an accused were to have the Rigt to a "jury of his peers," the Boston Bomber's jury would be composed of twelve radical Muslim terrorists from Chechnya.

Kinda like O.J. Simpson.  His "jury of peers" would have been twelve black, professional football running backs.  :No: 

As I said, just a point of information.

S.M.

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## Rick

I don't even own a pier. I'd be in big trouble. 

I'm impartial. I could be on the jury. I think he should receive a fair trial before we hang him.

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## Rick

I'm with you, Ken. Here's how the moderators handle folks that disagree with them. The lucky ones just get banned. 

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## Davidlastink

They should use the choke pear on the wrong end and then light some fireworks and see if they come out the right end.

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## Ken

> I'm with you, Ken. Here's how the moderators handle folks *that disagree with them*. The lucky ones just get banned. 
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


Hey, whatever you say, Rick!

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## Rick

"Zactly".  :Thumbup1:

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## Ken

*Jeff Bauman - just an amazing kid....

Jeff Bauman, who helped identify the Boston Marathon bombers afer losing both  his legs in the terror attack, presented a special 18th birthday present Tuesday  to Sydney Corcoran, also seriously injured by the Patriots' Day blasts.

*
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz2RQOLcJkN

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## Ken

> He had a 9/11 party.  Does that say something for you liberals?


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## rebel

Turks (muslim) vs. Christian  http://youtu.be/uTnCaW-Uo_s

I know you could say the same for every civilization and religion.  That doesn't make me want to be on the receiving end.

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## GreatUsername

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I had a double-take at that. That's incredibly powerful.

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## LowKey

That is awesome Ken.

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## BENESSE

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+1 Ken!!!!
Sometimes, it takes a simple new insight (not a spin) to put things into perspective. It's how I make my living...so I recognize a brilliant one when I see it.

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