# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  Permanent garden plants...... Survival gardens.

## hunter63

Permanent garden plants...... Survival gardens(?)
(disclaimer....Images shameless stolt from the interwebs as it raining and stuff isn't up yet much...

Thinking about what I have in my garden that pretty much take care of themselves with little on no attention other than trying to control them.

Many are called "weeds" by some...just means "plants in the wrong place in the minds of a organized person."
Many although are not perennials...will readily seed themselves.

My favorites:
Walking onions, egyptian onions.....
Horseradish....
Chives.. (onion and garlic chives)
Mints...spearmint.
Rhubarb...

Walking Onions - Allium Cepa Proliferum - Eternal Heirloom 

Even the scientific name tells you they are hard to kill.....proliferate and eternal ...making this a good addition to a permanent garden. 
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Walking onions will sneak up on you, when you are not looking and take over the garden.
At the end of the leaves bulblets grow in clumps and when they get too heavy...they fall over and "Walk"
Or you can pick the clump, break it up and plant ...propagating........they will grow on a gravel walkway.
Sent some to a friend...lady at UPS store asking if I was sensing hamburgers...smelled up the store

Horseradish ...
Love making my own grounded up root...

Horseradish (Armoracia rusticana, syn. Cochlearia armoracia) is a perennial plant of the Brassicaceae family (which also includes mustard, wasabi, broccoli, and cabbage). It is a root vegetable used as a spice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseradish

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Also can be invasive...as the least little broken off part of a root will sprout and start a new plant....

Chives.....Green garnish...gives a little onion or garlic taste year around.
Can grow inside or in pots....but will sneak into corners of the garden next to posts and rocks...kinda hides out till needed.
Chives is the common name of Allium schoenoprasum, an edible species of the Allium genus.
A perennial plant, it is widespread in nature across much of Europe, Asia, and North America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chives

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Mints...Mentha:....I have found spearmint also very invasive...LOL...best in pots or container.
Lots of  verities....

Teas and favoring....and just to chew on...  
Mentha (also known as mint, from Greek míntha,[2] Linear B mi-ta)[3] is a genus of plants in the family Lamiaceae (mint family).[4] It is estimated that 13 to 18 species exist, and the exact distinction between species is still unclear.[5] Hybridization between some of the species occur naturally. Many other hybrids, as well as numerous cultivars, are known.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentha

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Rhubarb...
Grow this because all the old gardeners I grew up with had some(?)...that where I got my cutting....
Figured it must be a secret of a long life as they were all old...LOL

I like it as it's one of the first plants up in my garden.
We use in pies...and did try making the wine....( I need more practice..LOL)

Rhubarb (Rheum rhabarbarum) is a species of plant in the family Polygonaceae. It is a herbaceous perennial growing from short, thick rhizomes. It produces large poisonous leaves that are somewhat triangular, with long fleshy edible stalks and small flowers grouped in large compound leafy greenish-white to rose-red inflorescences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhubarb

So anyone else have a favorite grows with out any care and what do you use it for?

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## LowKey

The chives in the photo are Garlic chives and have a white flower. Chive chives have tubular leaves like miniature onions and a pale purple flower. I like them both but the garlic chives are definitely more invasive.

Chives are supposed to be great companion plants for fruit trees. Gonna try some this year under the cherry trees. Maybe keep the rampant chipmunks out. Doubtful.

Walking onions are great fun. I tie mine to a stake so the bulblets don't hit the ground and make roots. They seem to get a little bigger that way. Those top bulbs are great for pickling, a spicy sort of onion. The bottom bulbs and leaves bleh, too bland.

I have a nice bed of raspberry plants going as a permanent thing. Plus a whole bunch of semi-dwarf fruit trees. 4 apples, 2 tart cherry, 4 crabapples, 1 stanley plum, 1 appricot and 2 pear trees. My peach tree had its roots eaten out from under it. Voles I think.  Problem with dwarfed trees is they only last a short time. 20 years or so at best.  A standard tree will last twice that. I have a couple of pawpaw seedling trees, one of which is finally putting on some growth. 

Last fall I planted out 3 blight resistant filbert bushes. We'll see if they made the winter.

I have a small patch of native mayapples. Haven't yet been able to beat the skunks to the fruit. They can eat it when green but humans have to wait for full drop-off ripe or they'll make you sick.

And I have 2 medlars. Which are an acquired taste. You let the frost hit them good then let em sit on the counter until they get soft. Once you get over the fact you are eating rotten fruit, they taste pretty good. Had to move the blueberries I had growing out on the sandy side of the yard.. They aren't doing well. They're in pots right now and I'm trying to get some growth back on them. 

The small bed of cranberries I finally figured out if you wipe your hand over the top of the bushes when they are in full flower you get a really heavy fruit set. Photo of part of the cran bed from 2015 in full flower. The bed is about 6'x 8' and I get about 4-5 pounds from that. You can grow them on dry land as a productive ground cover but they don't take foot traffic and you shouldn't let their roots dry out. Picking them will make you realize how smart it is to float them. PITA and it's usually about 35° and raining when you decide to pick them.
crans.jpg

And I have a bunch of concord grapes growing on the chain link fence. Sweet. Photo also from 2015 season.
grapes.jpg

I decided to try to get rid of the sunchokes. Wish me luck. And while I love blackberries, the ones I have are thorned, like razor wire, and they are rampantly invasive. I find them growing yards away from the original planting now.

I have 2 small stone pines on the gravel side of the yard. I'll probably be dead before they get old enough to set cones for pine nuts.

This year's plan is to start a medicinal/herb garden using the customary plants found in old monestaries. Lots of small seed flats out in the frame, planted last fall to get cold stratified for spring growing. 

if the snow isn't too deep this weekend, I'll see about getting some more pics.

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## Rick

I have had the worst time with paw paws. The first set died from too much sun. I kept them shaded but it was a hot and sunny summer. The second set had a neighbors limb fall on one and broke it off. I let the shoots grow and now I have a paw paw bush sort of thing. Maybe they will put fruit on some day. (fingers crossed). But they are growing.

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## LowKey

For something that used to be a common native, pawpaws sure are picky. My fear is waiting 10 years to finally see a fruit and hate the way it tastes.

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## hunter63

LK...that is an impressive list of plantings..... Congrats.....

I agree about sunchokes very invasive, I have gotten rid of tham as well.
Ditto with city blackberries, they gat away and became a nunsense......But have a lot growing wild at "The Place" in fence lines.

Couple of comments...
Blue berries need acid soil......
I have used planting "in" flats directly into the ground....helps control them.
Dill comes up by itself.....as does camomile...
Asparagus died out....

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## Rick

My blackberries have been pretty good neighbors. They have stayed put. My raspberries are my unruly kids. Those things are trying to run into the next block. I'm actually thinking of pulling them up because they are uncontrollable.

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## Fixit

Well I like my sunchokes .What else do I have here in middle Tennessee ? Horseradish, asparagus .blueberries ,jostaberries ,serviceberries , elderberries , grapes , hardy kiwi ,hardy pomegranate ,hardy banana , fig ,apples , goji , wild ginger, mints ( a long list of these ),yarrow ,comfrey, lots of cooking herbs ( last to me we counted was 34 different herbs). Then you get in to wild plants not in the garden that I in courage .

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## hunter63

> Well I like my sunchokes .What else do I have here in middle Tennessee ? Horseradish, asparagus .blueberries ,jostaberries ,serviceberries , elderberries , grapes , hardy kiwi ,hardy pomegranate ,hardy banana , fig ,apples , goji , wild ginger, mints ( a long list of these ),yarrow ,comfrey, lots of cooking herbs ( last to me we counted was 34 different herbs). Then you get in to wild plants not in the garden that I in courage .


Great list.....and knowing what they are.
Ideally depending on location...the ID'ing of various plant and their uses... where they naturally grow....can be a great addition to a traditional garden.
I gonna include Morels and Hen of the woods mushrooms....wild strawberries.

Many are picky... and only grow where they want to grow...at least the wild varieties...
Sometimes its best to just forage for them.... locate, pick and use...and leave them there.

I gave up my asparagus in my garden....several reasons....but continue to forage in a few spots that haven't been lost to developments.

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## LowKey

The list sounds impressive but the yard is a might of a mess. Working on it though. I think of it as a long term edible landscape project. I forgot about the beach plumb hedge on side garden. That's about 8 plants marking the road view front edge of what's going to be a container bed. And the strawberry bunkers on the front edge of that garden.

Found some alpine white strawberry volunteers out in the lawn last summer that I'm going to move to a shaded bed. Those are one of the few fruiting plants that will take light dappled shade. Surprised the heck out of me to find them but darned tasty things and the birds don't touch them because they are white, not red. The former owner of this lot had some interesting things planted around and I'm always finding surprises. Like the partridge berry and wintergreen in an old stone raised bed that used to ring-around a tree.

Watch out on those morels you might find in old apple orchards. There've been reports of arsenic/lead poisoning. Lead arsenate used to be a very popular orchard spray in the early to mid part of the 1900s. Beware of buying property that used to be an old apple orchard too. Get a soil test as part of the Purchase and Sales agreement.
http://www.fungimag.com/winter-2010-...vit-morels.pdf

yeah, I hear ya on the acid soil. The cranberries had a prepared bed. Dug out 8" of glacial till soil that was replaced with 1/2 peat, 1/4 sand and 1/4 old soil screened to remove rocks. They love it. I did the same for the blueberries but probably should have gone deeper, plus they were on a sand fill and the acidity must have leached out pretty quick. If I can get growth on them, I'm going to use them for a border on my garden opposite the cranberries. I didn't want to put them there before as it is a little too close to the neighbor (didn't want birds dropping blue bombs on his cars) but I'm putting up a fence that side this year so putting a net over the bushes will be less of a task.

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## minitruck83

LK, if you ever get ripe mayapple, be careful of the seeds, they're somewhat poisonous.  Dried root is resellable, not much when compared to sang, but far easier for a 10 yr old to find. (toss it on the roof for a week, and pray it don't rain). I'm thinking I remember the seeds being used for either a laxative or purgative.

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## hunter63

There are quite a few mayapple in the area I turkey hunt.....I swear they are a green spike at 6:00 AM and with be up starting to open by noon.
Never though about eating them.....Hummm

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## LowKey

My sister thinks may apples are obscene little plants. If they are old enough to flower, they are a little odd-looking when they first break thru the leaves. 
Though nothing beats _Mutinus caninus_ in that attribute. Once had a patch of those things sprout out of an old pile of bark mulch. Looked like a really bad accident had happened. LOL. 

On the subject of fungi, has anyone tried any of the mushroom spore or plug kits for outdoors. H63, you mentioned morels and chicken of the woods. Probably not this year but was thinking of putting in a mushroom bed. There's a morel kit online that caught my eye over winter.

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## edr730

My mother would make jelly from mayapples.

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## hunter63

> My sister thinks may apples are obscene little plants. If they are old enough to flower, they are a little odd-looking when they first break thru the leaves. 
> Though nothing beats _Mutinus caninus_ in that attribute. Once had a patch of those things sprout out of an old pile of bark mulch. Looked like a really bad accident had happened. LOL. 
> 
> On the subject of fungi, has anyone tried any of the mushroom spore or plug kits for outdoors. H63, you mentioned morels and chicken of the woods. Probably not this year but was thinking of putting in a mushroom bed. There's a morel kit online that caught my eye over winter.


Yeah....Baby Portabella....several bags over the years....last batch didn't do real well as I didn't get them started in time....Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

We were out of town for a month....did OK but earliers bags grew  much better...
Had thread around here somewhere...?

And the shikii(spelling because of software)...logs.....
These did fine.... but wasn't there all the time.... so lost a few ...but did last a few years.

Will have to see if I get any this year....
Bought the logs at the farmers market with the plugs in it already...
DW thought I paid $20 bucks for a "stick"....LOL

This is the pic of the most gnarly willow I have where the hen of the woods grows...sometimes...
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I don't really count mushrooms as permanent garden plants....more of a crop of opportunity...forage when available.....helps to know where they are.
Or you have to plant spores in a proper medium... same as an annual crop.

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## Fixit

My Mayapples started blooming this week .

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## hunter63

Fixit.....what location?
Ours bloom in.........wait for it....May...LOL

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## Fixit

Southern middle Tennessee.

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## hunter63

Gotcha.......What zone?
We are in Zone 5

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## Fixit

Twilight zone ! No wait zone 7 .

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## LowKey

Zone 7. I wish. I'm on the colder side of zone 5.
The snow is _almost_ melted off my MayApple bed. Most of the yard is still covered. The garden is clear. I've found going out and throwing a bag or two of compost on top of the snow on a sunny day goes a long way toward melting that stuff off. I get the $2 bags of cheap Compost + Manure (heavy on compost, not so much manure at 0.5-0.5-0.5) It adds to the tilth too. It may be thawed enough to plant peas today. Haven't been out to check yet. Waiting for it to get a little warmer and finish my morning coffee.

H63 those shroom kits seem to work for you. I will definitely take a closer look at them. As for growing outside, I've noticed in the fall the local rodent population eats some of the scarier looking mushrooms around here. Can't imagine how happy they'd be to have morels served to them. Maybe a box bed with a mesh cover is in order.

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## hunter63

I would have to look into morel kits.....You may be able to find the "inoculant" to add to a bed.
My are wild and seem to grow around dead elms......?

But although you may find them is roughly the same area...not always in the same spot.
It's one of those things...."Where are they growing...this year?"

Building a bed is an interesting idea.
Let use know how that works for you.....

In the past I have used the spread compost, old potting soil...from house plants that are depleted  and repotted.......and wood stove ashes....
Don't use too many ashes as my soil is mostly a clay loam and tend to be alkaline..as are ashes......
Dark anything does really helps to clear off the snow and warm the soil.

Used to place black garbage bags of leaves...on the pea patch......and the area I planned for lettuce and radishes.
Seemed to help as well. 

I don't think we really had deep frost this year...just a lot of mud in the till part of the garden...
Even the lawn took a beating with the dogs.
Spread chopped straw, with grass seed and then some sand over that.....helps keep the dogs feet less muddy...(and feeds the birds...LOL)

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## WalkingTree

I don't really have anything to contribute, but just been feeling compelled to make a comment...

The topic itself, "survival garden", I just really like. And think is important. Not just garden stuff, but specifically permanent/survival gardening. A real garden. That specific approach and mindset...I like. A good thread to have. And I'm sure that this in particular is it's own art and science.

Martha Stewart - "It's a good thing."

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## hunter63

The reason was to start  a discussions, that with had to do with perennials....

There is another side dealing with heirloom and open pollination seed involving seed production and saving saving......
Once established these plants will make seed true to the parent...pretty much.

These may change slightly over time, naturally adapting to your location and climate.
So knowledge of seed production is important for the long haul.

Propagation for slips shoots eyes etc...is also important.

More here:   http://blog.seedsavers.org/blog/open...d-hybrid-seeds

Big subject.....

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## LowKey

There is absolutely no way my little yard is going to ever be a ''survival'' garden. Maybe if I had another acre, in a place that allows livestock (this house is in a neighborhood association area. I'm lucky to be able to garden at all.) Been thinking maybe a few chickens would equal a few cats and a couple pygmy goats would be the family dogs but that probably won't fly. 

I get a kick out of those survival seed kits that come in a can. Making one of those work assumes you have at least 1/2 acre conditioned soil under tillage already, and know how to grow a garden, save seeds, and process produce to make it last. Some of the stuff in those kits aren't the best keepers. I'm looking at one I just pulled up randomly on the intertoobs that only gives you one Winter squash (butternut) and no pumpkins. But you do get zucchini which is pretty much useless. Radishes but no parsnips or turnips. Bush beans but no pole beans or drying beans. Standard tomatoes, but no Roma type... Not to mention that some seed like carrot will only keep a couple years. 
Buyer beware.

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## hunter63

> There is absolutely no way my little yard is going to ever be a ''survival'' garden. Maybe if I had another acre, in a place that allows livestock (this house is in a neighborhood association area. I'm lucky to be able to garden at all.) Been thinking maybe a few chickens would equal a few cats and a couple pygmy goats would be the family dogs but that probably won't fly. 
> 
> I get a kick out of those survival seed kits that come in a can. Making one of those work assumes you have at least 1/2 acre conditioned soil under tillage already, and know how to grow a garden, save seeds, and process produce to make it last. Some of the stuff in those kits aren't the best keepers. I'm looking at one I just pulled up randomly on the intertoobs that only gives you one Winter squash (butternut) and no pumpkins. But you do get zucchini which is pretty much useless. Radishes but no parsnips or turnips. Bush beans but no pole beans or drying beans. Standard tomatoes, but no Roma type... Not to mention that some seed like carrot will only keep a couple years. 
> Buyer beware.


You make a very good point....and I agree those are mostly a waste of time and money for anyone that knows how to garden.
The mix of plant types is, at best....a poor start.....and are not packed for every location.

You would be better served to make up seed packs of plant that a you like to eat, are local, and are open verities.
Then learn the basics of gardening for your area.
Example ....people Louisiana plant potato set (eyes) on Valentine's Day...where as we in Wisconsin may have a foot of snow. 

That said......Those that buy those well advertized packages, at a high cost want a "warm fuzzy' for their preps.
May be better than nothing...?

I do get a kick out of the "Carry in a BOB....."Well maybe if you have a truck...or a stash.
You won't harvest any food for many months..... IF you Bug Out  At The Right Time of year......

Short term...foraging may be the best BOB option.

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## LowKey

Anyone can grow an edible landscape. 
(bear in mind I live in zone 4-5)

Crabapple trees are very pretty in the spring, and if you get a variety that produces 1" sized apples, they make a good cider, a good jelly, and most excellent pickled crabapples. Most crabapple trees stay relatively small by nature, or you can get them on dwarfing rootstock (but lose a good decade off the life of the tree.)

Quince (the edible, not the flowering) are as good as crabapples.

Some dogwoods are edible (an aquired taste.)

Medlars, another acquired taste have huge white flowers in spring followed by rose-hip-like fruit. Read up on the process of bletting if you're game to try. Tastes sorta like a bland cinnamon apple. Will bear within 2-3 years of planting a 3' branched treeling.

Blueberries are the new "burning bush". Great fall color and fruit to boot. Also good for hedging. Just be aware of bird activity. Nothing sucks more than an irate neighbor complaining about blue bird bombs on his white Chevy POS car. 
Same goes for Concord grapes. LOL...

For a hedge, instead of lilacs, grow hazelnuts (be sure to buy blight-resistant varieties or they'll be dead before they set nuts) These can be kept to a 6' hedge. The flowers are catkins so not particularly showy.
Other hedges could be: 
SeaBerry (_Hippophae rhamnoides_)is a thorny hedge. I haven't tried it yet as not convinced it isn't invasive.
Aronia berry (_Aronia melanocarpa_) is another one of those blue bomb hedges. Berries good for juicing.
Swamp Rose (_Rosa rugosa_) difficult to control/invasive but has good sized apple-flavored rose hips in late summer.
Beach Plum (_Prunus maritima_) often only sets good quantities of fruit every other year. Good for eating out of hand or making jelly. Sea salt spray tolerant and will grow in poor soil if well watered.
Nanking Cherry (_Prunus tomentosa_) I have some small ones of these out in pots. Again not convinced not invasive.
Elderberries (Sambucus canadense var.) Lots of varieties out there. Need 2 to pollinate for better fruit set. More bird bombs. But good for jelly, pie, and WINE.
Serviceberry or Saskatoon (_Amelanchier alnifolia_) Haven't tried it but used to propagate a lot of it by cuttings when in the nursery biz.
Highbush Cranberry (_Viburnum trilobum_) I got 2 of these for free with an early spring order. They are supposed to be good for part shade, but not happy where I have them.

Not a food but:
Bayberry (_Myrica pensylvanica_) produces wax coated berries. Collect the wax by boiling and skimming. Note 1 gallon berries needed for one small candle.... Nice light woodsy scent to the wax. Can be cut with other wax sources but scent will suffer.

Cranberries, though a PITA to bed out due to all the soil removal and remixing, will make an incredible ground cover to put around pavers in a sunny location. Will grow on dry land if kept watered during hot dry weather.
Other native groundcovers include:
Bunchberry (_Cornus canadensis_) grows in part shade
Bear Berry (_Arctostaphylos uva-ursi_) grows in full sun in rock garden type setting.
Wintergreen (_Gaultheria procumbens_) grows in part shade.


Check with your local County Extension service before growing the following:
Currants
Gooseberries.
Both are hosts for White Pine rust disease which is spreading rampantly here in MA.

European Barberry (_Berberis vulgaris_) is another plant classified as an invasive non-native, but the berries are edible and were used in Colonial times as a jelly. As opposed to the invasive  Japanese barberry (Berberis thunbergii) which produces a dry astringent berry that is pretty useless. The _B. vulgaris_ has berries in clusters and 3 thorns. The _B. thunbergii_ produces single berries with one thorn. Rip it out. I used to have the _B. vulgaris_ as a damn thorny street hedge at the last house I lived in to keep the skateboarders off the concrete border wall along the sidewalk. Grown from cuttings from a foundation planting found at an old cellar hole on an abandoned estate. Wish I had brought some cuttings. Great under-window planting material.

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## hunter63

Excellent post....and great advice...tried to rep you...gotta spread it around.

Another possibility for a small yard...community gardens or Co-op's

Be aware.....these don't always work out the way you think they will...
Like anything...some people will be a PITA....
I don't use them any longer

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## hunter63

Came across this pic of the shiite log form last year....

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## Grandma Angel

My son and I rely to a great extent on our food forest and permaculture. In south Florida, on very marginal land prone to flooding, I've learned that the pretty pictures of perfect veggies in the seed catalogs are not in our future. Instead, we have had good luck with replacing pole beans with perennial Winged Beans - just let them climb up the slash pine or anything else they like. Collards do well here till rainy season when they flood out. By then I've put them by and started counting on our other greens. These include Longevity bush, Egyptian Spinach, False Roselle leaves, Chaya (ALWAYS cook it at least 5 minutes!), leaves from the Maringa tree, and the new tips of sweet potatoes. My rule of thumb is if it's edible and grows here, we eat it. Instead of growing large juicy tomatoes, we rely on the always reliable tiny Everglades tomatoes. They are the only type set fruit in our hot summer. Old-fashioned Bird peppers (the kind the Calusa Indians used ) seem impervious to both weather and bugs and add a nice flavor and heat to any dish. I've found the best way to have a good garden anywhere I've lived is to see what my neighbors grow and what native Americans there ate and do likewise.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

We primarily pant and use annuals.  Lots of tomatoes, peppers, greens, green beans, yellow squash, carrots, and cucumbers.  We have two growing seasons and two winters.  One winter is mild (December - February) and one winter is devastating (July - August).  I've got two Tabasco plants bearing and some late tomatoes that I'm going to pull up and put out of their misery.  We'll plant again in late Sept to get a few tomatoes before first frost and then the winter greens, carrots and such through the winter.  

I am going to see if I can find some of those walking onions though.  I love onions and we find them difficult to grow down here.  

Alan

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Oh, and you can grow an incredible amount in a back yard garden.  We bought our first "store bought" tomato of the year earlier this month.  We plant about 8 -10 different varieties every year to make sure we get some kind of tomato through the spring and early summer.  Our total garden plot is 20'x40'.  One chicken, four oak trees and the grass clippings provide all the fertilizer and organic matter needed to keep it producing.  

Alan

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## LowKey

Your oaks down there in TX must not have the super-tannins the oak trees up here have. I have to let them sit a year all chopped in a pile before even thinking about putting them in the garden. They suck up all the nitrogen and drop the pH like a rock.

I mighta mentioned in another thread that I was gonna try artichokes this year. Bear in mind I live in the northeast.
Have already had 8 of these for supper and hoping the plants will sideshoot in the remaining 8 weeks of summer.
artichoke.jpg
It was not easy convincing them they had a CA winter. Not all of them believed me so only 6 plants producing out of 12.
The Green Globe did better than the Violetto. Though the violetto are more impressive plants. Not sure the choke will be edible. Very thorny. These are still growing. They should double in size before cutting.
violetto.jpg

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

To tell the truth I don't know how much tannins these oaks have in them.  I suck them up with the mower so that breaks them down a bit and eve those that I rake up, I run through the mower.  They drop their leaves in the spring so we're already planted by the time the oaks drop their leaves.  I pile them up and rake the chicken yard once a month and mix up the pile.  The Chicken helps me mix it up too.  One chicken working full time on scratching through a compost pile can get a lot done.  Then in late summer (here in a few days) I'll cart it out to the garden and till it all in.  When the pile starts getting too big I just put down the clippings as mulch and let it decompose in the garden area.  

Alan

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## hunter63

I never like Oak leaves for a soil amendment.......They just don't rot here.
Pretty acidic when fresh.....
They are useful to keep root maggots out of carrots and radishes.....

Dig down about 6" bury a layer of oak leaves....cover with dirt and the other compost...and plant.

Dig down next year...they are still there...LOL

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