# General > General Guns & Ammo >  iron sites for a pellet rifle

## finallyME

Tax return time is upon us.  I was thinking about getting my kids a pellet rifle that would serve as a training tool for precision shooting.  The reason I want a pellet rifle and not a .22lr is ammo availability, cost of shooting, and location limitations.  When I was in High School in San Antonio, I was in the JROTC program and for a year was a member of their rifle team.  We used very nice pellet rifles with competition peep sites.  I learned a LOT about precision shooting.  Of course, non of it was ballistics, wind, distance...etc that you would learn from a long range sniper course.  It was pretty much just trigger pull, breathing...etc.  I want to teach these basics to my kids.  So my question...where do I start looking for sites like these?  Also, what are some viable rifle options.  Most of the local big box stores have pellet rifles that need glass.  I don't want to use glass.  Anyways, I am at the beginning of the search phase, so any guidance is welcome.

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## Seniorman

I imagine you mean "sights."  When I was a kid, I and my buddies all used our Daisy BB guns with the standard iron sights.  We shot a lot and became very good shots.  Those old iron sights worked quite well for us.  Today, the same principles of shooting apply as then.  Concentrate on aligning that front sight with the groove in the rear sight and press the trigger.  The target will be hit.

I am of the firm belief that any person learning to shoot should learn how to use standard iron sight to achieve accuracy.  Then one can graduate to a peep sight or a telescopic sight.

Just my opinion.

S.M.

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## hunter63

I'd stick to the sights that came on the rifle......get fancy when you have basics down.
Start with gun safety, then sight aliment, then breathing, trigger control..........

Just my opinion.

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## kyratshooter

A lot will depend on what design rifle you purchase.

The break barrel "springer" type rifles almost always come with "open sights" due to the placement of the sights on the barrel forward of the receiver.  Those rifles depend on a notch or ball detent to maintain the barrel in the same position from shot to shot.  That alignment can get sloppy with use.  Both sights on the barrel only makes good sense.

Side cockers or pre-charged rifles that are solid from back of the receiver to the muzzle can utilize peep sights with more consistency.

The open sights on my barrel cocker are very precise.  Good enough to terrorize the neighborhood feral cats out to 50-75 yards.  It will not kill them at that range but it sure gets their attention.  Leaps of up to four feet straight up in the air have been recorded.  I have noticed they are completely shy of my chicken coop and skirt the fields around the house with an eye cocked toward the porch, just in case. 

It is also grooved for mounting an optic and came with one in place.  It was a cheap 4x Beeman that wound up in the extra scope box.

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## finallyME

Thanks for all the replies.  A lot to think about.  I was looking at this one on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0024XEXQS/...I2SKXZP5UDHDFG
Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
It has a scope, but also iron sites.  It looks like the break open barrel that Kyratshooter was talking about.  Maybe I will give the irons a try before looking for a set of peep sites.  I don't think I am ready to pay $300+ for a pellet rifle yet.  That eliminates some of the more accurate rifles with peep sites pre-installed.

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## Duece

Not sure where you are located but D&L airguns has a pretty good selection of all types of rifles,pistols etc.
D

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## finallyME

> Not sure where you are located but D&L airguns has a pretty good selection of all types of rifles,pistols etc.
> D


I am not in Canada, but their site does give me a lot of ideas to search for in the US.  Thanks.

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## Eastree

> Thanks for all the replies.  A lot to think about.  I was looking at this one on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0024XEXQS/...I2SKXZP5UDHDFG
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> It has a scope, but also iron sites.  It looks like the break open barrel that Kyratshooter was talking about.  Maybe I will give the irons a try before looking for a set of peep sites.  I don't think I am ready to pay $300+ for a pellet rifle yet.  That eliminates some of the more accurate rifles with peep sites pre-installed.


I own one. The scope is not so good, and the rear sites are loose, with no way to tighten them. You can be relatively accurate with them, but you have to make sure the sights are consistent between shots. The way I did that was to push them to the same side every time (since it's single shot, it's not that huge of a deal compared to wanting to continue shooting a semi-auto rifle). It is an extra step, but my rear sight slides sideways a bit over 1/16" IIRC, which means a lot of variation in POA.

There are some mixed reviews about the rifle, some very mixed. I suggest tightening the screws and being very careful adjusting the sights. 

I ended up being more accurate with the sights alone than with the scope, which would not hold zero despite being made for the recoil of an air rifle. The rings may also be to blame, but for as little as I paid for it, I don't find it worth the cost of buying different sets of rings and new scopes just to find out.

Also: It has taken more than its fair share of squirrels.

It's a bit more accurate with somewhat heavier pellets, but not too heavy. And round nose does a bit better than wad cutters. That said, cheap-o Crosman pellets never keyholed for me at 25 yards, and were reasonably accurate for paper.

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## Rick

Whatever you purchase check the weight of the weapon. Some of those pellet rifles can be heavier than a standard rifle.

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## TXyakr

To reiterate what everyone already said when my kids were very young I started them out with tiny little daisy BB guns that were the right size and weight for them, then moved up in size and weight (also recurve bows etc.) Most of the scopes that come with low to medium priced  air guns are junk as are the open sights (aka iron sights). Amazon is fine but if a local gun shop or even Cabelas (a personal friend is manager of gun counter at one of those so I must plug that place) should be able to recommend the best one for your needs and special order it for you, possibly even price match, though I would not feel right asking for that due to the service.

Which pellets offer greatest accuracy etc. BBs are terrible, plastic soft-air and paint guns are a complete waste of money and time IMO.

One thing that is not necessary but I found helpful was to mount a cheap laser sight to the trigger guard, align it close but not exactly on. This gives me an idea how steady the kid is holding the rifle as the red dot "swims" around the target. Is he/she squeezing and breathing properly or jerking trigger. It was also fun with some buddies at a father daughter campout after the girls went to sleep, we had many adult beverages, had paper targets on cord with wooden clothes pins. Every time a guy (mostly me) would go over to pin up a new target you can imagine where the red dot would wander. Lots of laughs. Small BB guns making guys (mostly me) jump Ha Ha Ha

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## TXyakr

Generally a small diameter (caliber) projectile at a high velocity will give you the most accuracy but there are other considerations as well. The air rifle I use the most to shoot varmints in my yard discretely (not tick off the neighbors) is a piece of junk Daisy Powerline 880 0.177 CAL (4.5mm). Purchased years ago with open sights added cheap scope later, but it is useless in low light. Using the best pellets I can find the cluster is fairly tight, and pumping it up 8-10 times I can kill (neck shot) or at least drop all the cotton tails, and bushy tailed tree rats in my yard then run over and humanly finish them off with a quick squeeze, crush or twist if occasionally necessary. If someone does call a LEO on me and they take my air gun away it is just a cheap Daisy I will put on an Oscar winning performance and whine a lot but no big loss actually. Small gun I alway hide at my side when not behind privacy fence, no one has ever complained, I look like a long bearded mountain man who has been drinking whisky all day long for a week straight. Should probably post an avatar for you to enjoy.

With luck you might find something like this at a yard sale, the air gun not the whisky.

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## randallss7

> Thanks for all the replies.  A lot to think about.  I was looking at this one on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0024XEXQS/...I2SKXZP5UDHDFG
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
> It has a scope, but also iron sites.  It looks like the break open barrel that Kyratshooter was talking about.  Maybe I will give the irons a try before looking for a set of peep sites.  I don't think I am ready to pay $300+ for a pellet rifle yet.  That eliminates some of the more accurate rifles with peep sites pre-installed.


I have this one along with a dozen others including some 15.00 china made flee market single pump break over models.  I'm not sure how old your kids are but this one has a significant cocking weight my 10 year old girl cant cock this one.  Also there is too much recoil for the scope you cant get it zeroed for more than a few shots you will spend a week in frustration before you throw it away, the iron sights on mine are fine and accurate.  I have a couple 1-10 pump models that the kids enjoy shooting more and those will shoot BBs or pellets.  I would classify the one you are looking at more as an entry level Adult model.  My favorite is the Benjamin 392 in that price range,  its a very quality bolt action pellet gun so you avoid the whole break over barrel inaccuracy mess this rifle is very accurate and very deadly, I'm not a huge fan of the single pump break over style.  Its mostly made in USA with mostly USA parts...lol.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Benjamin-3...-Rifle/5420297

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## TXyakr

randallss7 the Benjamin 392 is an excellent choice for that price range.

If someone was willing to spend significantly more and wanted even more muzzle velocity (flat trajectory) the Benjamin Discovery in either 0.177 (1000 fps) or 0.22 (900 fps with more knock down) would be good for hunting small to medium size varmints and target practice. Not dealing with spring-piston issues is great, also the sights, stock and just about everything is better than lower end air rifles but still not the same as super high end competition air rifles. Here is a good review and good web site for almost everything air gun related.

http://thebestairrifle.com/benjamin-...ery-22-review/

Note that Gamo brand rifles are generally more quite than Benjamin. This may not be an issue for you.

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## TXyakr

Thread drifting a bit but if you want to fool with it you can replace the LEDs in a very high powered flashlight with infrared LEDs (use a precision soldering iron) then attach a camcorder with night vision behind your iron sights or scope (use duct tape and/or velcro) to do some night hunting of varmints such as rats or opossums etc.

Here is a link to a fun video from the "AirRifle" site I mentioned above.

http://thebestairrifle.com/air-rifle...-night-vision/

When I was a kid, my friends and I just held flashlights next to the stocks of our guns and took photos after, but this live video of hunting and rats jumping from head and neck shots is much more fun. Or gross, whatever.

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## finallyME

I have never heard of the Benjamin rifles....so thanks.  Also, thanks for the link with the comparisons.  Learning a lot here.

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## Rick

Oh, that night vision vid. No good can come of that. 

"Mr. Crash. It's 11 O'clock at night. Don't you guys have set hours?"
"Ssshhh. Be bery bery quiet. I'm hunting wats."

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## hunter63

Night vision would good  for BYB........the cheapo lasers will light up an eye in the dark......Just saying.

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## TXyakr

> I have never heard of the Benjamin rifles....so thanks.  Also, thanks for the link with the comparisons.  Learning a lot here.


Crosman and Benjamin are owned by the same parent company effectively but aimed at different market segments more or less, this much market overlap make it complicated. Read this history:

http://www.crosman.com/discover/cros...ory-of-crosman

Years ago I thought Daisy Outdoors and Gamo were at one time owned by the same parent company but I searched and could not find info on this. These companies are bought and sold and reorganized quite often. It is very confusing.

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## TXyakr

Some medium level air guns with "iron sights" (open sights for us old coots) and also PCP repeater which I like for "hunting wats" as Rick says preferably down by the garbage dump. Real sneaky like so as to fill the gunny sack full.

http://www.topairgun.com/repeating-pcp-air-rifles

If all that pays well you can save up enough to upgrade to some proper lead spitters and shop from this list of competition air rifles:

http://www.topairgun.com/competition-air-rifles

Note that even Daisy Avanti makes a relatively higher end competition rifle but you would never find it at you local Wal-Mart.

Also I would never use any of these to shoot at fussy tailed tree rats in my front or back yard because about 5 years ago some "bleeding heart" whatevers passed an ordinance in my suburban city prohibiting the use all but soft air (plastic BB) guns. So quiet and cheap air rifles are key for me. Blowpipe are still OK. Most 0.22 Cal air rifles are almost as loud as a 0.22 firearm even with the silencer device on the end of the muzzle. FYI.

BTW when "hunting wats" or something more delicious for survival dinner here is a source for night sights:
http://www.beamq.com/laser-rifle-sights-c-71.html

Or replace head light or flashlight LEDs yourself and attach small IR camcorder behind iron sights as I mentioned before. Here is a source for 10 LED at about 50 cents each:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...3fcaArru8P8HAQ

Edit: BeamQ also sells high powered infrared LEDs that are much more dangerous. Use safety glasses for that are especially designed for this if you use IR laser sights and use extreme caution. People have permanently damaged their vision with these. Common sense is not enough this is VERY DANGEROUS! light is powerful and not visible. I recommend regular IR flashlights and IR camcorders over lasers.

I hear a joke coming from Rick about a Mother Goose rhyme...

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## TXyakr

These are the air guns I saw at a local Wal-Mart all "Barrel Break" "spring-piston", most only had a scope but a few also had "iron sights". I know nothing about BlackOpsUSA, so looked it up appears to be mostly a toy company that makes air guns. Swiss Arms is better IMO, they also make actual firearms.

http://www.swissarms.ch/en/aboutus.html

airgun2.jpg
airgun3.jpg

Edit:

Note that the Beeman dual Caliber is a fairly decent rifle for the price but typically only comes with a scope not iron sights so verify that these fit it but for about an extra $10 add rear and then front as well:
http://www.archerairguns.com/Rear-Si...nrearsight.htm

Also figure out away to prevent the allen bolt from coming loose with Loctite or something.

archerairguns and other retailers sell iron sights of various qualities that fit most rifles and pistols but be very sure it will fit yours because there is a wide range of mounting rail styles. Front sights can also pose a problem. You can also purchase almost competition quality iron sights for some air guns for about $30 or more. Compared to the terrible sights on a gun like the Daisy Powerline 880 that never stay in place and require a hot glue gun, superglue or nail polish to keep in place. Also loading pellets into this piece of junk is a PITA. OH I should not rant about a $50 plastic toy gun marketed for children. LOL

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## TXyakr

When at Wal-Mart I talked to the older gentleman at the gun counter who was very helpful but had his facts little off (heck I often do myself.) So my ideal survival gun for small game is a .22LR/410 shotgun combo which can be very lightweight and cheap (Rossi "Match Pair" there was $133), but there are some obvious disadvantages of these over a relatively high powered air rifle (small caliber, not .45 etc).

Last 2 years or so this ammo has been difficult to find. Even when my good friend at the Cabela's gun counter Text Messages me that they received some and I drop everything and rush over there to stand in line, but there is a limit on how much I can purchase. Loading my own as the other thread here at WS discussed is a PITA. Then there is cost compared to air gun pellets. Purchased in bulk .22LR typically cost 3 to 40 cents per round while pellets cost about 1.2 to 2.5 cent each. So if you and your family do a lot of target shooting (to be prepared) and go thru 1000 rounds each month or year this could easily be the cost of a medium priced PCP repeater air rifle or Savage Arms Model 42. Obviously the air rifle will come out cheaper over a year or two for many people who hunt pests or varmints, or target practice often.

Review of Savage Arms Model 42 for those not familiar with it:
http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/s...del-42-review/

Rossi matched pair:
http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=113
Rossi was manufacturer of my first barrel break pellet gun, I shot many crazy cow/pig feed bag eating "Wats" wit it.
Rossi makes cheap but functional weapons, IMO.

If you can find a M6 Scout great, I am impressed.

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## kyratshooter

LOL  !!!

I will buy all the Rossi matched pair sets you can find me at $133!!!

I don't even care what the calibers are, I'll take them.

The last set I bought cost me nearly $250.

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## TXyakr

> LOL  !!!
> 
> I will buy all the Rossi matched pair sets you can find me at $133!!!
> 
> I don't even care what the calibers are, I'll take them.
> 
> The last set I bought cost me nearly $250.


Prices and availabilty vary widely online versus in stores and even across town from one store to the next, ask any manager at a Wal-Mart they will explain it to you.
One of the local Wal-Marts near me had several of these in stock for only $133, online they are listed for $149 and out of stock. Perhaps I should make some $$ on Flea Bay???
Academy sports has them listed for $170 not sure if they are in stock, but overall with firearms it definitely pays to know people in the business. Being a unconnected "Joe on the street" customer really sucks, also not living in Texas can be difficult I have been told.

Edit: I'll run on by there later and double check, there were a bunch of rifles in the case and I was in a hurry I may have been looking at a different tag, but don't think so. If you really "need" one I could ground ship it to you perhaps.

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## hunter63

> LOL  !!!
> 
> I will buy all the Rossi matched pair sets you can find me at $133!!!
> 
> I don't even care what the calibers are, I'll take them.
> 
> The last set I bought cost me nearly $250.


Yeah was gonna say.....must have been w a while back.......$250 +/- seems to be normal sale price lately for the Rossi combo's....last couple of years.

This is kinda a stretch for sights on  air rifles.........

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## TXyakr

Three Visually Impaired Mice (Mother Goose rhyme poorly paraphrased that doesnt rhyme).

Three diminutive rodents invaded the domicile of an agrarian couple. As each tiny varmint poked its head out of apertures they had gnawed in the couples shelter an infrared laser diode emitting a wavelength of 780 nanometers at 200 milliwatts seared the retina of each one of their eyes. This enabled the agrarian woman to sever their caudal appendages with her laser-beam-welder. Then they were unable to maintain equilibrium on the structural roof trusses of the domicile and the agrarian couples Felis catus captured them as they fell and thus they perished, Pb free.

Perhaps I have been reading too many scientific photonics papers. But this was mostly inspired by BeamQ dot com. If you require a Google Translate from Tech Nerdish into English one cannot be provided, sorry.

Also inspired by all the YouTube videos of NiteSite NS200 owners hunting dirty rotten WATs in their pig barns:

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## TXyakr

> Yeah was gonna say.....must have been w a while back.......$250 +/- seems to be normal sale price lately for the Rossi combo's....last couple of years.
> 
> This is kinda a stretch for sights on  air rifles.........


I agree Hunter there are many options for sights on air rifles, we covered many but not all of them.

However, just to be sure I was not way off base I went back to that Wal-Mart to check on price and availability because the OP was concerned about that in his original post. I agree with him I think air guns have many advantages over 22LR firearms but these small game fire arms can be very cheap, simple to clean and fix and operate compared to equivalent air guns so should never be completely ruled out unless you live somewhere they and ammo are just not available for example.

SOOOO

Yes for only $133 it was a 0.410 shotgun only Rossi without the 0.22 Cal rifle barrel (one in stock) but they also had one Matched Pair (0.22 Cal and 0.410 gauge dual barrel) in stock for $149 at the Wal-Mart about 4 miles from me.

I also checked the Academy they had 4 Rossi Matched Pairs in stock for $169.99 each, and the Savage Model 42 22LR/410 for $359.99 which I personally prefer. But Rossi is probably better for a young child as their first rifle or for ultra light backpacking etc. Depends on your requirements.

At a local independent Gun Shop (not a big box store) they had the Ruger 10/22 takedown Syn stock for $339 and wood for $345 these I really like but they don't have the 410 SG. Also everyplace I went had 0.22LR except Wal-Mart but as to be expected the quantities were limited. I only bought 100 rounds for $8.99 before sales tax, not greedy or planing to go target shooting soon. I will post some photos for those doubters, but you could call Wal-Mart gun counters in Texas and Oklahoma if you think I am lying.

Personally I think the OPs idea of target practice with an air rifle with iron sights is great. Happy target plinking.

Rossi133.jpg
22LR.jpg
Rossi_Savage.jpg
Oct14_133.jpg

Hopefully the resolution is high enough for you to see that the price tag was printed on October 16, 2014 not a few years ago, fellas. Come live in Texas where there is plenty of ammo and the price of firearms has not been jacked up by you know who.

To assist you kyratshooter I called the "Farm Creek" Wal-Mart in Louisville, Kentucky (502) 231-4800. Their price for the Rossi Matched Pair or "Combo" 22/410 is $167 but unlike most stores in Texas they don't have any in stock and don't plan to. But for only $114 they have some of these:
KSA226L.jpg

So if your kid gets startled by a rabbit with large scary teeth and drops their rifle this hi-vis color will make it easier for them to locate their rifle in the brush. Personally I was taught to never drop my firearm or set it down but things may be different in KY. BTW don't use that gel on these firearms. LOL

To assist Hunter63 I called the Wal-Mart in Shawano, WI and talked to Ron who told me that they did indeed have the Rossi Matched Pair or "Combo" 22/410 in stock and the price was $199. So if you or a friend's kid needs one of these call Ron at 715-524-5980 and ask if he can hold it for you.

Rather than one of these .22 rifles I would recommend something like a Savage Rascal that comes with peep sights. If you are a member of a hunting, shooting club or boy scout troop or talk to mangers of a BSA campground you may be able to get in on a group buy and save some money with a discount.

Many models from many manufacturers to choose from but the Savage Arms Rascal youth is typically about  $180 retail but not that difficult to find (IN TEXAS) for about $130 or less with group discounts.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...savage-rascal/

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## TXyakr

That $133 410 shotgun reminded me of the tiny little air gun shot gun shells we occasionally fooled around with when I was a kid. This was obviously foolish to use in a rifle because the tiny shot messed up the barrel's rifling, but we were mostly unsupervised hooligans who got hit with ricochets and occasionally shot each other's hands etc., so this was a minor issue. Blah Blah Blah.

Better to use an Air gun intended to be used with shotgun shells like the Gamo Viper Express Air Shotgun or Shadow Express Shotgun if you can find them for a reasonable price, preferably used. Some people think they will work for pest control then realize their mistake and try to sell them. BUT for backyard skeet practice at about 20 feet or less these can be a lot of fun. Just downsize your clay pigeons (skeet) to little plastic disks, water balloons, or roll paintballs on the driveway (Mom will love that!). This way you and your kids get some practice shooting moving targets for cheap. However, the Gamo air gun shotgun pellets are WAY over priced at about $12 per 25 (50 cents each) so buy some #9 or #12 super fine shot and refill them yourself. Compared to firearm shotgun shells this is very easy. Instructions online just Google or figure out some ways with hole punch and rubber cement or whatever yourself. Simple stuff, biggest problem is the cost of the air gun, could always use an old used .22 air gun purchased very cheap, not worry about rifling getting messed up. Have fun. Don't shoot you eye out or pepper the side of some one's face with tiny shot, that makes them look like they have bad acne. Don't ask me how I know… LOL Ouch!

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## TXyakr

> Maybe I will give the irons a try before looking for a set of peep sites.  I don't think I am ready to pay $300+ for a pellet rifle yet.  That eliminates some of the more accurate rifles with peep sites pre-installed.


You have probably already read the front splash pages and info pages of several air rifle sites that have good info that discuss the various types of rifles and what they are best for but this list of air rifles under $300 is good to consider.

http://www.topairgun.com/riflesunder300

One warning is that an excellent PCP rifle like the Benjamin Discovery .22 generally works better with a compressed air tank or expensive hand pump or lots of CO2 so the cost is actually well above $300. Also IMHO as long as the rifle has rails that will accept a good quality but affordable peep sight (after market) and the front sight is reasonably good and works with that peep sight I would not be overly concerned about the iron sights and scopes that come with the rifle under about $500 or certainly under $200, these will be barely functional for backyard casual plinking of soda cans. But that is just my personal opinion. My biggest concern is that a set of peep sights fits it well FOR SURE, possibly even order from one retailer with them already installed. Retailer may question your motives, but the point is for kids to learn to use and appreciate peep sights. Personally I find most gun shops, counters and even online retailers very helpful yet laid back, totally different than most retail these days.

example:

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Ve...4_Peep_Sight/5

Air Venturi Williams 64 Peep Sight  $40 should work with Crosman/Benjamin 392 ($170 typical or less)

If you are like me you call them up and negotiate a $10 off bundle with free express shipping etc, price match with others etc. but I am a little extreme.

Benjamin 392/397 without scope only about $140 at Wal-Mart if you can find it there, and 397 0.177" (4.5mm) cheaper pellets if that is an issue for you, i.e. just target practice not knock down power, tear up flesh etc for relatively larger game.

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## finallyME

> Come live in Texas where there is plenty of ammo and the price of firearms has not been jacked up by you know who.


Thanks for all the effort you are putting into trying to help me.  I really appreciate it.  That Benjamin really looks like the best option right now.  

By the way, I graduated college from UTSA.  But, by that time, I had had enough of Texas and looked for a job anywhere but...... Of course, what that meant was anywhere west except Cali.  There are a lot of things I liked about Texas, but there were no mountains and not much public land.  Of course there is also humidity and fire ants...but I digress.  :Smile: 
I do miss Rudy's BBQ and my wife always craves Blue Bell.

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## TXyakr

> There are a lot of things I liked about Texas, but there were no mountains and not much public land.  Of course there is also humidity and fire ants...but I digress. 
> I do miss Rudy's BBQ and my wife always craves Blue Bell.


I spent much of my childhood in a place even more hot and humid so Texas seems fairly mild to me. Cool that you could find some good quality air rifles, many of the Benjamin/Sheridan are made in the USA, not sure about that one.

Also most of the mountains in Texas are far to the west but 5 are over 8000 feet and another 5 over 7000 feet, taller than any of those little weathered hills east of the Mississippi river the Easterners call mountains. Silly hillbillies. Oh I'm only joking don't flame me.

Google Tallest+mountains+in+texas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalupe_Peak

Tallest peaks/mountains east of Mississippi River:
http://getawaytips.azcentral.com/10-...ippi-5509.html

My grandfather was more like you, he immigrated from NE Germany (Prussia) from NYC got a job on railroads about 1900 went to Texas because there were many Germans there. Said it was WAY TOOO HOT!!! (no AC back then, had to sleep sweating like a race horse all night long.) Homesteaded near Fargo, ND saw beginning of dust bowl coming sold land to city, they actually built a horse race track on it. He moved to a small German village near Edmonton, Alberta and homesteaded for a second time there. My dad was born, grew up, said it was WAY TOOOO COLD!!!! Moved to South America. I was born and spent most of my childhood there, said it was WAY TOOOO HOT and HUMID moved to Texas, so it has been a long multigenerational journey around back to Texas. Now I enjoy AC when not camping.

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## TXyakr

FYI if anyone needs to locate a Wal-Mart in their state that sells firearms or air rifles just Google or Bing search for it OBVIOUSLY!! Here is a helpful list that I found for Texas, but I also found this information very easily for Kentucky and Wisconsin. Also there are eBay equivalents for firearms and air guns such as "gun broker" "arms list" and many more that anyone who actually "hunts", competitively shoots and/or collects firearms would be well aware of. In fact if you had lived in Texas of decades and did not know this you would most likely be a %#!*# bleeding heart yankee and people would only be friendly to you here because we don't take these things personally and don't say what we really think directly to your face. Just keep you crazy "nanny state" views to ya self, thank you.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=373108

Edit: Assistance for KYrat

google: kentucky walmart firearms sale

Supercenter. 5130 Hinkleville Rd; Paducah, KY 42001; (270) 444-0066

Supercenter. 100 Walton Ave; Danville, KY 40422; (859) 236-9572

Supercenter. 7625 Doering Dr; Florence, KY 41042; (859) 282-8333

Supercenter. 150 Walton Ave; Bowling Green, KY 42104; (270) 781-7903

Supercenter. 7101 Cedar Springs Blvd; Louisville, KY 40291; (502) 231-4880

Ask for something in your price range like a Keystone Crickett typically $114 Nationwide
Or $95 from Keystone if you are an certified instructor but most instructors that I know would not want those.
Single shot .22LR
http://www.crickett.com/crickett_22_LR.php

As mentioned in comment #26 above the KY price for Rossi may be too high for you and for whatever reasons may not be in stock:
Rossi Matched Pair or "Combo" 22/410 is $167 at most Wal-Marts in Kentucky.

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## kyratshooter

Thanks anyway TXyker, but I know where the local Walmarts are, and I have full access to the internet, just like the rest of us.

I really have no use for a Rossi .22/.410 matched pair except to resell them if a profit can be had.  

Don't need a Cricket rifle either, mostly due to the lack of need for a .22LR in most shapes and forms. 

My personal need for the Rossi matched pairs is to provide backup guns for my main hunting rifles, so those barrels, and the H&R barrels I own, are in center fire calibers with the occasional shotgun barrel scattered around.  Those sets are priced at a higher point than the .22/.410.

What I can afford is between me and the IRS and has nothing to do with this thread.

Whether I "actually hunt, competitively shoot and/or collect" is baiting I will ignore. 

As for looking back to post #26...    I did.  

I actually had to take in 25,26,27 and 28 to see what was happening.  

I'm out of this one.  You will have to pick a fight with someone else.

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## hunter63

> .
> 
> 
> I also checked the Academy they had 4 Rossi Matched Pairs in stock for $169.99 each, and the Savage Model 42 22LR/410 for $359.99 which I personally prefer. But Rossi is probably better for a young child as their first rifle or for ultra light backpacking etc. Depends on your requirements.
> 
> 
> To assist Hunter63 I called the Wal-Mart in Shawano, WI and talked to Ron who told me that they did indeed have the Rossi Matched Pair or "Combo" 22/410 in stock and the price was $199. So if you or a friend's kid needs one of these call Ron at 715-524-5980 and ask if he can hold it for you.


Yeah thanks.....I didn't know Shawano had a Walmart.....But I'm good.

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## TXyakr

> LOL  !!!
> 
> I will buy all the Rossi matched pair sets you can find me at $133!!!
> 
> I don't even care what the calibers are, I'll take them.
> 
> The last set I bought cost me nearly $250.


I was taught at a very young age don't make a statement you cannot back up. Don't start a fight you cannot finish.
I never started a fight but I darn sure wanted to guarantee that my reputation for reliable facts was certain.

If you question me again be sure you have done your research.

Edit: What matters most to me is my reputation!!!
I am learning whose comments to just ignore thus the long understood term "trolling for newbies" and "Internet Troll" if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, flies like a duck it might be a duck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

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## kyratshooter

Sorry TXyaker,

Seems I have lost a fight I did not know was happening.

Now, where did you show me that Matched Pair at $133 ?  I seem to have lost that "fact" in all the clutter.

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## hunter63

> If you question me again be sure you have done your research.


..............OR, ...What?

LOL........Let it go, you are starting to look silly.....
God bless your heart.

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## TXyakr

finallyME I'm not sure the age of your kids or if they will still be interested in competitive shooting by the time they reach High School but here are some links that may help. Understandably you may buy and sell air guns and firearms may times before they reach that age but ideally you could buy some that are best to get them prepared for competition in 4H or jROTC and other tournaments. (personally my daughters started off strong, did well but lost interest, OH well, if I had put $1000 in good investments for every sport they started and quit they could go to Yale fully paid, no scholarships, exaggeration LOL.) Obviously good shooting skills is great for hunting and survival, or "Enemy at the gates".

USA shooting is a great organization but their webmaster has issues (I have nothing good to say so will not) there are links there to ALL of these other links but I will list them out for you because navigating USA shooting if you are not familiar is WAY confusing… enough said they really are good people, including webmaster who "bless his/her heart" just spew it out there sort of like me ;-) Browse around try not to get frustrated.
http://www.usashooting.org/about

CMP unfortunately may not have a big presence in Utah but for people in the Cleveland/Toledo, Ohio or Birmingham, Alabama it would be great. About price of very cheap bowling, discount movie, ice skating, but air gun for friends who don't have one is included $2 for kids to shoot. Great deal! Beats shooting GI Joes in backyard on fence rail! I have a funny story about that.
http://thecmp.org/air/cmp-marksmanship-centers/

4H shooting sports even if your kids are not old enough still contact the coordinator for your state, he/she may help you with discount on air gun and/or firearms and shooting range and discounts for it. I LOVE discounts!!!
http://www.4-hshootingsports.org
Utah 4-H Shooting Sports Cordinator (USU) at Logan, UT (453) 797-0930
kevin.kesler@usu.edu

or Richard Beard (453) 797-0573
rbeard@usu.edu

NRA was the best place to teach hunter safety and shooting skills decades ago and still has very good programs today. Personally I ignore some of their political activities, try not to let that bother you, hopefully no one will dump this thread into a black hole because I listed them. They have great advice and programs on shooting, especially competitive shooting.

http://compete.nra.org/how-to-get-st...-to-start.aspx

Hope that helps, I have many good friends in competitive shooting whose kids earned some scholarship money for college, became better hunters (especially safer hunters.) And hopefully made their homes safer and in an absolutely worse case situation could survive better. Enjoy time with your kids.

BTW .22LR is not necessarily recommended for competitive shooting but once you get some contacts in the community these and more appropriate rounds and pellets should not be a problem if Utah is anything like Texas. Assuming you don't shoot more than about 500-1000 rounds per weekend like me. LOL

Edit: Had to take a call do real work, back now.
So finallyMe if Kevin, Richard or someone at Utah S University or a 4H or JROTC/CMP program from local High School gets back in touch with you (and I am fairly sure they will) be sure to ask about local shooting ranges for young kids and an instructor. Then follow up at home or where ever on what that instructor taught them. I am a trained instructor, have been instructed by excellent instructors and really believe in the value of it as I believe you said you do. The cost is generally not that much. Pays off for the rest of their life. Just my personal opinion.

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## Mitch2019

British steel core design company "Thunderbolt" series sniper rifle, the steel core design company "Thunderbolt" series sniper rifle in the largest diameter, launching 12.7 × 99mm NATO projectile, effective range of 1,500m. It is based on the SC-76 sniper rifle and has undergone several improvements. In order to improve the strength of the weapon, the lower casing and the buttstock are made of aluminum alloy material. The grip is made of a polymer material, the base of the butt is made of rubber, and the rubber surface is made of non-slip particles. Since the application of the aluminum alloy material increases the quality of the gun body, a part of the side of the magazine holder is removed for weight reduction. The space for holding the hole under the stock is increased, and the triangular hole as the handle in front of the magazine is changed into a long hole, and the space is also increased, and the glove can be easily carried. Keep the original two fire triggers and the insurance mechanism above the trigger. A strap loop is added to the Picatinny rail under the butt and under the hand guard for portable operation. The bottom of the legs of the bipod is changed from a spherical shape to a tapered shape to improve the stability of the shooting. In addition, in order to reduce the quality of the whole gun, the width of the lower casing is reduced as much as possible, so the double-row magazine is changed into a single row of magazines.

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## Rick

What does that have to do with the thread, Mitch?

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## crashdive123

Not a gosh darn thing.

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## Wildthang

I dont know about recent developments, but the spring used to recoil in the opposite direction as they were fired making them hard to keep them sighted on target. The reverse recoil made it hard to shoot them accurately!

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## kyratshooter

the "reverse recoil" is something you have to get used to with practice.  Fact is that the precision pellet rifles are some of the most accurate guns in the world.  

I have a .177 Weihrauch that is scary accurate.  Not very powerful but scary accurate.  I could have bought a 9mm w/suppressor for what that thing cost.  The lengths I will go to for backyard shooting accuracy are astounding.

I also have a couple of PCP rifles and they break all the known rules.  Extreme accuracy and good power levels and you do not have to pump or compress a spring.  No recoil in any direction.  Being air guns they can be fitted with devices to cal down even the small amount of noise they do make.

I do have one that slings a .22 pellet well over the sound speed thing.  That sucker cracks like a .22 rimfire.  You get over the 1000fps level and you have that to deal with.  

Your best and cheapest solution may be putting out some dog food floating in antifreeze.  I used to use that for coyote control on the farm.

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