# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > General Homesteading >  A Generator for Survival

## Rick

I've been pondering a question in my mind for some time and I thought I would toss it out to see what you folks would do. I have four 5 gallon Gerry cans of gas and one 5 gallon safety can giving me 25 gallons of stabilized fuel. Based on my gens consumption rate, that gives me about 60 hours of run time +or-. 

I have two heating plants in my house. The main plant is NOT on the generator. The smaller one in my sun room is. I also have two refrigerators and one freezer on the gen. I have a fireplace and a Heater Buddy trash can propane heater with six 20lb bottles. 

Let's assume that the grid is no longer available for whatever reason. It's mid September, so cold weather is around the corner. 

How would you best utilize the generator to maximize your chances of survival?

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## 2dumb2kwit

I think I would only run the gen. a few times a day, to keep the fridge and freezer cold. Does that make sense?

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## 2dumb2kwit

...oh, and if you set yourself up with rechargable batteries, for radio, flashlights, etc., you can recharge them while the freezer is chillin'!
(Charging some batteries, while the fridge and freezer are running, probably won't be an issue to the gen.)

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## ClayPick

Wood heat is all I use for heat . The only generator I have is a little 2 stroke which is just enough for a fridge and freezer but not both at the same time.

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## oly

A lot of electronic controls such as furnace controls will not work with a genny due to voltage and Hz fluctuations AKA dirty power, there are filters to clean up the power supply.

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## nell67

Since a full freezer will last 48 to 36 hours if frozen solid,then you really would only need to hook it to the generator every other day or so and run until back to frozen state (don't actually let the food inside thaw) keep jugs of water frozen inside to maximize the time between plugging it in,have a few extra jugs to place inside the refridgerator to help keep them cool as well (move frozen items from the freezer part of the fridges into the large freezer,and shut off or raise the temp inside the freezer part).

Run generator only as needed to cook,or heat ( not really needed in September here in this area) and heat water or use an outdoor grill for cooking,and save the generator fuel for the bigger stuff.

Oh yea,I know you know this,but never run that genny inside or close to your house...

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## peter nap

If the refrigerator is well insulated and it's cool outside, I'd move it (them) to an unheated area. Run the generator an hour every 48 hours to keep them cold.

In September, you should be able to heat with the fireplace alone.

I always suggest everyone also have a couple of 6 volt Golf Cart batteries in addition to the Generator. You can charge them while you are refrigating and then you have some power while the generator i off. A small inverter rounds the package out.

That way, your gas will last a very long time plus be available for an emergency.

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## nell67

You could shut off most of the house and use portable electric heaters rather than the furnace.

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## COWBOYSURVIVAL

I am thinking I would use it to run the well pump. With the freezer I would be freezin' well water in jugs and moving the frozen jugs to the fridge, leaving some in the fridge and even more in large coolers. Then only maintain the fridge not just let it run....I'd be using fire for heat and light for the most part, along with battery power from all the batteries in my boat. I can also use my solar to recharge the batteries and my inverter to charge other batteries.

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## oldsoldier

I would recommend that you invest in a small solar electric system. You can but them now for a few hundred and will run a couple of appliances. A battery charger for your radio etc. That way you can save a lot of fuel for your generator. Secondly use your perishable supplies as soon as you can If the grid is down and going to be down for weeks, months, ??? chances are you aren't going to the grocery for a pound of hamburger anytime soon anyway. You didn't mention if you have a fireplace or not if you do. Stock up on wood, you can save 50% or more of your energy by heating,cooking, lighting with wood. IMHO

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## Ken

I need more information on both your main and secondary heating systems.  How are they fueled?  Natural gas, propane, oil, electric?  How is the heat delivered?  Forced hot water/baseboard, radiant hot water, or forced hot air?  Do you have a heat pump?  And cooking - gas or electric?

Is your main plant set up with zones?  Can you turn off the water supply to specific areas of the house?  Does your floor plan provide for basement living spaces.  Do you have a second floor?  Can you "close-off certain sections of the house, and if so, what rooms would they be?

Are you prepared to answer another dozen questions?

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## oly

Sizing a Genny  for your needs.

every appliance has a Amp rating on the data plate, lets say a refrigerators Amperage rating is 7 amps with 120 volt power supply

Watts = voltage X amps
120 X 7 = 840 watts

I dont like to max out a genny so I add a min. 25%
840 X 1.25 = 1050 watt min.

Now for one of the biggest mistakes that can cause an electrical fire or damage the equipment due to voltage drop is the size of wire of the extension cord.

I'll have to double check the ratings but the ball park area is about

@ 50 feet, 14 gauge wire can carry 15amps

@ 50 feet, 12 gauge wire can carry 20amps

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## oly

> I need more information on both your main and secondary heating systems.  How are they fueled?  Natural gas, propane, oil, electric?  How is the heat delivered?  Forced hot water/baseboard, radiant hot water, or forced hot air?  Do you have a heat pump?  And cooking - gas or electric?
> 
> Is your main plant set up with zones?  Can you turn off the water supply to specific areas of the house?  Does your floor plan provide for basement living spaces.  Do you have a second floor?  Can you "close-off certain sections of the house, and if so, what rooms would they be?
> 
> Are you prepared to answer another dozen questions?


My lumpy chair is heated by natural gas :Innocent:

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## Ken

> My lumpy chair is heated by natural gas


Which raises yet another question.  Do you store beans?   :Innocent:

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## oly

For some reason Ken, the wife doesn't allow me to buy beans

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## crashdive123

Rick - I don't have the concerns that you do for heating the house.  The last time we had an area wide power outage I ran my generator about 7 hours out of every 24.  I ran it at night - powered refer and a couple of fans to make sleeping bearable.  I used my smaller generator the first night (very efficient on fuel) and in that time went through about 2.5 gallons of fuel.  Not knowing how long we would be without power, I wanted to be as efficient as I could.  Turns out that we were only without power for 4 days.  I store 60 gallons in cans, plus with the vehicles topped of have an additional 65 gallons available (assuming no driving).  After a period of time - when the perishable items have been consumed, I would run it less and focus more on availability of fuel for vehicles.

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## Rick

Here's where I'm going with this. I'm looking at a conversion to my gen that will allow it to run on gasoline, propane or natural gas. It's a fairly modest conversion and will allow me some flexibility over and above what I currently have. 

Here's a site that offers a kit just so you can see what I'm talking about. 

http://www.propane-generators.com/

Have any of you done this? Does anyone have a gen that will run on two or three different fuels (alcohol does NOT count so shine is out).

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## wildWoman

instead of relying on the generator, I'd get a hippie killer (little oval airtight stove) and figure out how to install it in your biggest room, running the stovepipe out through a window, and get a couple cords of firewood.
In my experience, in order to be able to really rely on an item of machinery, you need two of them. Very reluctantly came around to this way of thinking which has been my boyfriend's mantra for ages. Now he invariably whips out the second generator, the second chain saw, the second cordless drill when the #1 item goes on strike, and says "see?!".
So unless you have a back-up generator to back up your back-up generator, I'd always opt for the non-mechanized way.

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## hunter63

> You could shut off most of the house and use portable electric heaters rather than the furnace.


Takes a lot more juice to run a electric heater with a generator, than a furnace.
5000 watt genny/5000w heater, and you would have to run continuously, not for me.

My primary heat source, at the cabin, is a wood stove, with electric base boards as a below 60 degrees back-up.
Powder off, base boards off, water heater off.
Run a circuit of lights, the fridge, and pump on when necessary.

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## Ken

> A person needs to really study up on using generators before investing. Well pump - most need 220 volts and a big generator. Heating a house using a generator and electric space heaters - extremely inefficient. Home noise can you stand? Exactly what are the minimum wattage requirement? Lots of study needed. Most folks buy too small and cheap. If they never use it - no problem. If it actually gets use much at all - bigger, better generator is usually purchased. You also need to be able to maintain them, have the spare parts and oil and of course storing fuel is a lot easier said that done if you live in a dense area like most. 
> 
> Normally, quiet equals dollars. Quality equal dollars. If a person is on a budget some careful shopping can produce a really nice generator for a lot less.


 
Hey, SJJ!  Any chance of you generating an Introduction?  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=7813

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## pocomoonskyeyes

Well Hello and welcome SJJ would you be so kind as to introduce yourself in the introduction section? A guideline has been posted in the form of a "sticky", it is the very first one at the Top. Thank you.

 Dagnabit!!! Ken done beat me to it!!

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## oldsoldier

> A person needs to really study up on using generators before investing.  Well pump - most need 220 volts and a big generator.  Heating a house using a generator and electric space heaters - extremely inefficient.  Home noise can you stand?  Exactly what are the minimum wattage requirement?  Lots of study needed.  Most folks buy too small and cheap. If they never use it  - no problem.  If it actually gets use much at all - bigger, better generator is usually purchased.  You also need to be able to maintain them, have the spare parts and oil and of course storing fuel is a lot easier said that done if you live in a dense area like most.  
> 
> Normally, quiet equals dollars.  Quality equal dollars.  If a person is on a budget some careful shopping can produce a really nice generator for a lot less.


sjj........ Many of the Home improvement "big box stores" sell whole house generators that work off propane/natural gas that are extremely quiet (no louder than an idling car) that hook in and will even auto switch over during an outage and they are getting cheaper as technoligy improves. You can get one now for around 4k.

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## oldsoldier

> Dagnabit!!! Ken done beat me to it!!


Poco remember kens a lawyer they've got the fastest fingers around. ( good for picking the clients pocke....... Er defense :Blushing:  :Innocent:

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## Ken

> Poco remember kens a lawyer they've got the fastest fingers around. ( good for picking the clients pocke....... Er defense


Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

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## ncgrayfox

we use an honda 3000ei genny very quite will run approximatly 6 hrs on 3 gals. of gas I agree use the genny for perisables.  we also keep alot of dry goods instant potatoes ,rice ext. in a heavy snow storm that knocks out power having a good sleeping bag rated at o or below could save your life if you don't have a wood stove. I have a back pack in my truck with enough gear and first aid  to survive for 2 or 3 weeks may sound crazy but you never know. I hope i didn't get to far off the topic. ncgrayfox

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## crashdive123

Sounds as though you are well prepared.  When you get a chance, stop on by the Introduction Section and tell us a bit about yourself.  Thanks.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

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## LowKey

Kinda depends on what you mean when you say the 'grid' is unavailable.

We ran a furnace on a little 3K Honda gennie for 6 out of 12 powerless days last year. Even though it was December, the first 5 days were warm. Lost everything in the reefer. Had it been cold, I woulda built a snow cave for the food. No ice to be found anywhere. Only one gas station in a 20 mile radius had power for their pumps for the first 5 or so days (you would think a gas station would have a generator...) and once I went there, they were out of gas. No delivery. That really drilled the point home about reliance on the grid.

Think about getting a furnace heated water heater rather than an electric water heater. We have one of the furnace heated insulated holding tanks. We just changed over to a house generator and the first thing the plumber said was, "Good, you'll have hot water." The electric heaters take upwards of 30 amps, more than half the capacity of the gennie I could afford and he wouldn't have hooked it up if it was electric.

Also check that your fireplaces work. Really work. I found out in a crunch that our main fireplace doesn't have the proper chimney height for a good draft and ended up eating a lot of smoke. 

All cooking was done out on the gas grill.

The new gennie I have is propane powered. I still have the little gas Honda as backup. 
The bottom line on generators is they are a consumable. In a real survival situation, with grid out and delivery schedules disrupted you just cannot rely on using one for continuous power.

The other thing is the noise. Not how much you can stand but how much it draws out the thieves. There were reports up and down the valley that people were having their generators stolen. In a more long-term real situation, it could have been much worse.

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## Ole WV Coot

In Sept. I would go cheap. I would need very little heat and could grill out in the average weather we get then. I would only need the small generator for fridge, freezer and TV. I would use the ole Coleman for light during the intermediate running of the small generator. Open the doors on the Buck insert and use the screen, not bother with the blower. We wouldn't need the upstairs, electric range, maybe carry a small extra microwave down to the basement. Would be basement living, grill or old Coleman stove, open fire or microwave. I will have the roofed, screened deck to "camp" on with grill. Wood if needed is available, food wouldn't defrost and would have TV and light to read by, don't think we would need heat or cooling. I have friends that pulled their RV next to the house and lived in comfort a few weeks ago, running the blower on their gas furnace in the house enough to keep the pipes from freezing.

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## TucsonMax

Or you could just move to my neighborhood.

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## 264Win

WE have two generators. One is only run when we need the well 220v. The other is a small 1200 watt 2 cycle that is very efficient on gas it is used to run the furnace oil fired hot water for the rest of the house and a few lights the new 13w florescent. We have a 75gal supply of gas stored and stabilized. We have a freezer and two refrigerators that are full of frozen water bottles and need only to be run every 12 hrs. I have only been out of power here for a 6hr period and it was -40 below zero so we did not worry about food spoiling.

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## Roel

This is our 15 Hp "Hatz diesel" It does 6500 watt permanent, enough for all the electric stuff in the house.
The only thing is..the noise...

DSCF8164.jpg

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## Rick

I solved the noise problem on mine. I went deaf.

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## hunter63

> I solved the noise problem on mine. I went deaf.


What.............?

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## crashdive123

Deaf, not blind. :Whistling:

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## Roel

I prefer ear protection... :Sad:

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## Rick

Oh sure. NOW you tell me.

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## Wildthang

You really need a wood heater if the grid goes down for a long period of time! Sooner or later you are not going to get any more fuel for the generator and that is when the wood heater will save the day!
I have 2 generators and lots of gas but would not ever trade them for my wood stove. Oh they do make some cabinet style propane heaters that hold the 25 pound bottles. You could get one of those and a few bottles of propane for backup in case the geny craps out! Something to consider I guess!

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## kyratshooter

I am in your ball park on this one Wildthing.

I have two generators but I keep them for use with the power tools, not powering the home.

My emergency heat source is the propane backup which will last for about a week.

During that week I would be bringing the wood stove in off the back porch and it would switch from recreational use to home heating duty.  There is already a cord of wood stacked at the end of the house.

A 24 hour outage is no big deal and powering a huge generator might be acceptable.  If an event is going to last for much longer than a week a change in lifestyle might be called for with the generator fuel saved for true emergency use and not maintaining lifestyle.

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## crashdive123

What is this thing called a heat source of which you speak?

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## kyratshooter

A heat source is what those of us north of the Sewanee River use to prevent the freezing of the balls off of the brass monkey between the months of October through May.  

It has only been in the past week that I was able to put the heat source away for the winter here in north KY.

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## Rick

I just removed a wood fireplace and replaced it with propane. I have almost 300 lbs of propane so beyond the generator I can stay warm for a while.

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## SurvivalTips

I personally have a Generac 20kW home backup genny connected to a 1k gallon propane tank that I have buried. I just told the propane company I was converting my entire house to propane and got the tank that way.

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## hunter63

> I personally have a Generac 20kW home backup genny connected to a 1k gallon propane tank that I have buried. I just told the propane company I was converting my entire house to propane and got the tank that way.


So the tank still belongs to them ..right?....Gotta get your propane from them?

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## edr730

In years when I did not use enough propane they would charge me an extra fee for rental of the tank. You can buy your own tank which will end up saving you money in the long run since you can buy from who ever has a bargain on propane.

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## hunter63

Yeah that's what I thought.....got burned bad way back when....Had propane in a bulk tank, was locked in with the owner.

Was is a mobile home park, ....park put in natural gas...and we were required to change over.
Then haul the tank and gas away...was some still in it....then charged me for the balance of the "Contract"...if I recall was about 350 bucks.
If I would have kept the tank it would not have cost me....just buy the gas for them.
Actually was even my contract....was the previous owner.
Balked paying and was chased by bill collectors....
Still think screwed over....

Bottom line.....One need to be aware of the fine print details.

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