# Survival > General Survival Discussion >  E.m.p. Survival

## nuclearwarfaresurvival

does anyone one know anything about electro magnetic pulses?

 :Nuke:

----------


## Rick

Try the search feature. 

EDIT: You'll find dozens of threads on the subject.

----------


## crashdive123

> does anyone one know anything about electro magnetic pulses?


Yes, yes I do.

----------


## kyratshooter

I do not believe in electromagnetic pulse.

How could an all powerful electromagnetic pulse allow all the pain and sorrow in this world to exist.

----------


## WalkingTree

Ok...that one ^ got an 'out loud' laugh out of me.

----------


## LowKey

I can't wait to see all the faces of all the millennials when their phones go dead.
What are they going to do with themselves?

----------


## hunter63

> I can't wait to see all the faces of all the millennials when their phones go dead.
> What are they going to do with themselves?


That would be the "Zombies"...... wondering around looking for a brain.....

----------


## WalkingTree

> I can't wait to see all the faces of all the millennials when their phones go dead.
> What are they going to do with themselves?


I caught a glimpse of the end of the world the other day. I finally saw just how ingrained in our culture this phone thing is. On t.v.

It was just an ad for some t.v. show. One that I have no interest in. But a certain something about it woke me up.

It was some such thing about guys and gals doing some such stuff...I don't even know what you'd call it...some contests or tournament dating? The goal is for everyone to magically fall in love with someone else, them all being strangers to each other, and get paired off.

But here's what was weird about it. At the end of the commercial when they're saying something like "on such and such day at such and such time on this channel", etc, and there's a still-shot on the screen...in this still-shot were a handful of the participants, young pretty people, here and there, posing and smiling...

*...and all of them were bowing their heads, looking at a phone that they were holding in their hands.*

Let that sink in.

----------


## Rick

Hey! Slack off on the phone. Folks start slamming phones and I don't take hostages. Made a good living with dial tone.

----------


## Faiaoga

> I can't wait to see all the faces of all the millennials when their phones go dead.
> What are they going to do with themselves?


We now have another way to classify geezers:
You are a general geezer if you remember a time before Twitter and Facebook
You are an old geezer if you recall the first cell phones
You are an ancient geezer if you saw the introduction of internet-connected "devices"
You are an ancient old geezer if you are familiar with landlines, pay phones or party lines
 :W00t:

----------


## kyratshooter

> *...and all of them were bowing their heads, looking at a phone that they were holding in their hands.*
> 
> Let that sink in.


They were just praying to the Phone God.

You guys do realize this technology has been out there for 20 years now, and we that do not use it are now the minority.  

We are sort of like those folks that continued using muzzle loaders into the 1930s, ordered cars with 3 speed column shift transmissions in the 1960s and refuse to have our children vaccinated today.

BTW, do you think the OP has decided we do not take EMP seriously as a threat to humanity?

----------


## hunter63

You are a Geezer if you Know what a "Vic 20" is.......Or told Widow Johnson the get off the line...on the party line.

But you are not really Old.....just Ripe....

----------


## crashdive123

> You are an ancient old geezer if you are familiar with landlines, pay phones or party lines


Pfffffft.  I remember only having to dial three numbers to connect to another party.

----------


## WalkingTree

Hand held devices (phones, etc)...People _use_ them, sure. Even most people now. But what struck me is this - A picture of a person typically includes certain things, like a background. Or the person having on some clothes (one's without clothes are a different/subcategory, and beside my point). Or the people in the pic trying to smile. Stuff like that. But what struck me as a strange moment in history is a picture of people _which has nothing to do with phones and is not a picture of the phone itself,_ now requires the presence of the phone in the pic - not only that the phone is in the subject's hand, but that the subject is looking down at the thing and using it. It is now part of the pictorial decorum and landscape. Not when someone is caught unexpectedly in a picture and happens to be using the thing, but when someone is posing for a picture...when everything about a pic is prepared and choreographed by a photographer.

A prepared picture of someone on a park bench...is about that scene - birds, trees, reflection, serenity, whatever. But now a natural and required ingredient of that scene is a phone in the person's hand and them looking down at it.

A pic of a pilot in the sky...you get the sky, the cockpit, some dashboard or uniform. But now there has to be a phone in the pilot's hand and him looking down at it.

A pic of someone...one wherein they aren't 'doing' anything, it's not about anything but that person, they are literally just having a pic taken of themselves in which they normally would just stand and smile...now instead has to have a phone in that person's hand and have that person looking down at it.

*That* is what's very strange to me. I _use_ a fork very often. Or a ball point pen. Or my shoes. But a picture of me...of any person that's supposed to just be a pic of that person standing and smiling - a definitive of these pictures is not the person holding a fork in their hand, or a ball point pen, or bending over to put on their shoe.

? Geezer: By normal standards, I have only begun to start getting old, technically. Yet I can claim these things - 

-  T.V. was only broadcast.

- Channels were all VHF. I remember the advent of UHF like it was a strange new thing.

- Forget no computers or internet, but I almost never even heard of the words themselves...what does the words themselves even mean? Computer, internet...huh? And...pager? Mobile phone? What are all these things? From a B-rated sci fi movie or something?

- Plastic bags? What's that? We just had metal trash cans, and that's it.

- I don't just remember analog telephones, but I remember and miss the absolutely superior sound quality of them. It was *literally*, not figuratively, like you were in the same room with the person on the other end. You could talk over each other and still hear everything from the other end at the same time, no blanking out of the sound. Every nuance of sound from the other end got transferred also, in good proportion, realistically, including things 50 feet or 100 feet away from the person on the other end, etc. The one drawback for some people is that during 'long distance' calls, everything on the other end was lower in volume. You had to try harder to hear them. And you had to raise your voice too. But that seems appropriate to me...because it was long distance. Hehe.

- My mom would regularly go to the gas station and get exactly 2 dollars worth of gas. Of course, we were poor, but that's still reasonably close to typical.

- And I remember when they started structuring/shaping the bottoms of soda cans and 2-liter bottles differently. I wonder if anyone here knows what I mean. For that matter, 3-liter bottles were a new thing about when I was a teen or pre teen. 2-liter was extravagant.

- I noticed when 'they' started duping everyone concerning radios. The bass and treble adjustments. Nowadays, you have to hit a special bass button. But that doesn't get you any more bass than when you'd just turn up the normal slider on an old radio. And there's the stereo button...used to be, if you were getting bad reception, you'd hit this button to go from stereo to mono, and suddenly you get great reception. That button doesn't exist anymore. And then sound quality in general...whippersnappers are thinking that they're getting cool 'popping' sound quality in their devices with small advanced speakers. Sure, speaker technology has progressed greatly. But not that greatly. They just don't know the difference. Don't know what they're missing.

----------


## madmax

You talk too much.  Respectfully.

----------


## Faiaoga

> You are a Geezer if you Know what a "Vic 20" is.......Or told Widow Johnson the get off the line...on the party line.
> 
> But you are not really Old.....just Ripe....


I don't know about Widow Johnson, but Ripe Old Geezers hang out at www.oldcomputers.net

Perhaps Widow Johnson and her sisters have internet computer dating profiles there  :Glare:

----------


## hunter63

Well, I did see an ad in a Sportsman Guide catalog for a tent......in front of the tent, were the happy campers sitting in folding camp chairs....and the teen in the Great outdoors...was bent over with what appears to be a cell phone.

I guess my question was why have your phone out in camp?....or at the very least...who was the person doing the photo for the ad and why would they consider that good copy...?????
Tried to find it on their web site....not there.

----------


## Faiaoga

The teen age girl in the folding camp chair was probably looking up a web page about owls, instead of looking for and listening to owls round her camp.  Or maybe she wanted a digital image of campfire flames, instead of looking into an actual fire.  :Mellow:

----------


## Rick

Did you know that you can search the web, text or make a phone call ... in the middle of the ocean?! Who knew and where do they hide the cell towers?

----------


## LowKey

How much did you have to pay to connect to the ship's wifi?
I had to take a flight to florida a few weeks ago. There were no screens. If you wanted an in-flight movie you had to pay $5 to connect your phone to their wifi. If you wanted a premium movie, it was $15. Of course you had to have a fully charged phone and download an airline-supplied app... That's why I brought a book (a real paperback book) with me.

----------


## Rick

It's $200 for unlimited access on the WIFI. I took a package on my cell phone, however. There are lesser packages available. Since this was a work function for my son his company ponied up for the wifi (and the drink package  :Innocent: )

----------


## Mannlicher

EMP is an unproven threat.  Maybe, and maybe not, kind of thing.

----------


## tundrabadger

> Pfffffft.  I remember only having to dial three numbers to connect to another party.


Feh...that's not necessarily and age thing...I remember when I was a kid we only had to dial  4 numbers, locally,  because geography.  or in other words, it was a small isolated town,  and  for some reason it just worked that way.   And being as I'm 33,  and this was only 23 years ago,  I really do think it was mainly a geography thing.  heck,  we had a fax machine,  which at the time was still not only relevant but  pretty cool.  


Re EMPs....I like to think  I could do without the phone and computer,  but it's just hit me  that an EMP would also knock out my e-reader,  which would in turn mean I'd need to carry around paper copies of  100 odd books  to have the same effect,  and I don't think I want to do that.

----------


## LowKey

EMP is real enough. There was a very large CME in 2012 that if it had come just a week earlier would have hit Earth squarely in the chops and would have done quite a bit of damage. One in 1989 took out a large part of the power grid in Canada. One that happened in the early 1900s took out the telegraph system in parts of the US. NASA doesn't think the Sun has ever put out a CME that was planetwide though. Even an airburst nuclear blast would be a relatively local event and you got more to worry about than EMP if one of those happens.

I do more of a hurricane/snowstorm type of preparedness, myself. Though I might add forest fire to that list. We have conservation land behind us and it is dry dry dry. A lot of dead hemlocks out there too that would probably go up like torches.

----------


## WalkingTree

Lots of factors involved. A coronal mass ejection for example, if it's N and S pole matches the wrong way with that of our magnetosphere when it reaches us, it may do something. And then it has to be pretty strong though.

----------


## Rick

Actually......the one in 1989 tripped circuit breakers that set in motion an automatic shutdown of the grid. Lessons learned and all that. The trip level on the circuit breakers is now much higher and other safeguards have been put in place. In truth, we are probably far more vulnerable from a generation station or a balancing authority being hacked than from an EMP. As the grid moves into the realm of smart grid the hacker stakes will increase exponentially.

----------


## Loneviking

If you google around a study was done on EMP effects on cars.  If the cars weren't running, there was no problem starting them again.  If they were running, something like 3 or 4 of 5 could be restarted.  Only a handful had to be repaired, and the repairs weren't extensive.  An EMP pulse is a pulse, a wave, as it spreads out the power diminishes; objects like mountains, skyscrapers and dense trees can reduce the effectiveness.  Plenty of stuff would survive.

And btw, I miss the old party lines and the bakelite phones.

----------


## hunter63

> Actually......the one in 1989 tripped circuit breakers that set in motion an automatic shutdown of the grid. Lessons learned and all that. The trip level on the circuit breakers is now much higher and other safeguards have been put in place. In truth, we are probably far more vulnerable from a generation station or a balancing authority being hacked than from an EMP. As the grid moves into the realm of smart grid the hacker stakes will increase exponentially.


Now that is the most likely scenario....My opinion as well.

----------


## WalkingTree

...basically, the EMP danger isn't all it's been cracked up to be?

----------


## Loneviking

> ...basically, the EMP danger isn't all it's been cracked up to be?


Correct. Some electronics will fail, but life goes on. Far worse is if grid is hacked or destroyed.

----------


## Rick

Yeah, the fear of EMP is just the latest wave......get it? EMP? Wave? I slay myself.

----------


## WY21lmb

Would not a HEMP attack be the ULTIMATE hack of the electrical grid?

----------


## NightShade

Geezers huh? Hahahahah I'm only in my mid 30's and remember all of those scenarios and items.

I think it is hypocritical in a huge way, the attitude many people have on here towards technology. Many of you have no problem using a lighter or other modern firestarter. No problem using a metal knife instead of a flint or obsidian. No problem wearing gore-tex rather than leather of furs. In fact, I've seen many lectures from people on using the best tools available and how primitive tool making or medicine is a fantasy. 

Heck, you're on the Internet right now as you read it. People use technology to make life easier and it is no different than examples many of the people on here have given as they lecture people about survival tools and products. Why would you not use the most modern tech?

Over dependence? Ok, I can get that. People love to mock younger generations and say they're zombies because they are all looking at phones... A quick google image search will show you pictures from 40 years ago where literally everybody in a train car is reading a newspaper. Is the current young generation somehow worse because they get updated, researchable news from an electronic device that can connect to the total sum of human knowledge rather than from a newspaper?

Nope- a geezer is somebody who complains about a younger generation and thinks they are superior. Why not just shake your fist in the air and say "get off my lawn you darn kids!"

----------


## crashdive123

Geeze Francis......lighten up.

----------


## NightShade

> Geeze Francis......lighten up.


I just spit out my soda laughing as I read that.

----------


## hunter63

> Geezers huh? Hahahahah I'm only in my mid 30's and remember all of those scenarios and items.
> 
> I think it is hypocritical in a huge way, the attitude many people have on here towards technology. Many of you have no problem using a lighter or other modern firestarter. No problem using a metal knife instead of a flint or obsidian. No problem wearing gore-tex rather than leather of furs. In fact, I've seen many lectures from people on using the best tools available and how primitive tool making or medicine is a fantasy. 
> 
> Heck, you're on the Internet right now as you read it. People use technology to make life easier and it is no different than examples many of the people on here have given as they lecture people about survival tools and products. Why would you not use the most modern tech?
> 
> Over dependence? Ok, I can get that. People love to mock younger generations and say they're zombies because they are all looking at phones... A quick google image search will show you pictures from 40 years ago where literally everybody in a train car is reading a newspaper. Is the current young generation somehow worse because they get updated, researchable news from an electronic device that can connect to the total sum of human knowledge rather than from a newspaper?
> 
> Nope- a geezer is somebody who complains about a younger generation and thinks they are superior. Why not just shake your fist in the air and say "get off my lawn you darn kids!"


Bhohahahaha....You are correct!

But newspapers don't have batteries.......LOL

----------


## Rick

And...you could start a fire with them. Try that with an iPhone. 

Back on the EMP thingy. I've decided to start an EMP Survival School. My plan is to put students in various real life scenarios like: in the woods, in an urban setting, in their vehicle (preferably parked. You'll see why in a moment), or on the water. Places that one might find themselves if an EMP were to occur. They will be required to have their cell phone, ipad or other electronic device along with the required BIC lighter and other useful EDC items. I will then touch them on the back of the neck with an 18 million volt stun gun to simulate the EMP strike. The important thing I plan to prove is that whether their vehicle works or not they won't be able to use it. And those electronic gizmos? They won't be able to focus on them for at least three, maybe four hours. In case any students change their mind at the last minute I will have a Taser. Same difference.

----------


## finallyME

> How much did you have to pay to connect to the ship's wifi?
> I had to take a flight to florida a few weeks ago. There were no screens. If you wanted an in-flight movie you had to pay $5 to connect your phone to their wifi. If you wanted a premium movie, it was $15. Of course you had to have a fully charged phone and download an airline-supplied app... That's why I brought a book (a real paperback book) with me.



You know you can download movies off of youtube, right?  Or you can use software to rip movies off of DVD's that you already own.  Then you can have a bunch of movies already stored on your phone for the flight.  I found that after taking 2 flights across the pacific (13 hours each), that it is best to have a backup battery for the phone.  What really saved me was just what you mentioned, a good Tom Clancy in dead tree form, never ran out of batteries.

----------


## WalkingTree

> I will then touch them on the back of the neck with an 18 million volt stun gun to simulate the EMP strike.


Aaah-hahaha-HAAA-hahahahaha!......ah-hahahaha-HA-hahaha...

...breath...

Aaah-hahaha-HAAA-hahahahaha!......ah-hahahaha-HA-hahaha...

...breath...

Aaah-hahaha-HAAA-hahahahaha!......ah-hahahaha-HA-hahaha...

.
.
.
.
........hee hee hee hee...breath...oooh weee...hee hee hee.......sigh...

----------


## LowKey

Yeah, I know all about downloading and storing and ripping movies etc.
But I have a job that keeps me very aware of what is on my computer at all times. And the work is hard-drive space intensive, so no clutter allowed. Since the phone and the laptop belong to "work" I don't download stuff with potential to clog up the works, or worse put me out of commission for a day or two.
Tom Clancy has come to the rescue a few times. James Patterson too. Pretty much typical airport fare.

As for the 18,000volt charge simulating an EMP, I'm not so sure about that. An EMP doesn't affect an ion-exchange nervous system like it does a metal and capacitor/resistor system and is not similar at all to getting hit by lightning. If you are close enough to the epicenter under a HEMP though, you'll have more serious issues just keeping your flesh on your bones long enough to turn the car key than you will with EMP.

And about kids and iphones and geezers with newspapers. Ya, 40 years ago you looked around _on the train_ and saw geezers reading newspapers. But not while driving their car down the road. Or even simply walking. I saw a woman almost get killed the other day, texting on her ipad walking down the sidewalk, came to a crosswalk and didn't even stop to look or give the traffic time to stop. She just kept on sallying forth. Lucky for her the guy in the oncoming car was able to stop. Just in time. Then there was the guy riding no-hands on his bike, texting away, sailed right through a red light, again lucky he wasn't killed. It's always good to lose the Darwin Award. Today.

I'm all for tech. Too bad it's so tied into big data with everyone wanting your personal information just so they can sell you something. I'd embrace tech whole-heartedly if it was lean and mean and useful, without some hive mind collecting every little scrap of data it can coerce, cajole, or downright steal out of you.

----------


## Rick

Let me touch you on the back of the neck with it then you can explain it to me.  :Whistling:

----------


## hunter63

I think the point is....maybe more "Stuff" to worry about than your car starting and what movies you can down load.....

----------


## LowKey

Part of surviving means knowing when to say, "I'll just watch from over here while you all try that."

----------


## kyratshooter

> Part of surviving means knowing when to say, "I'll just watch from over here while you all try that."


So now we have a designated beer holder, as in:  "Hold my beer and watch this!"

----------


## blackthorne

three words, faraday cage, okay that was only two words. If you build one for your car take pictures would ya?

----------


## Rick

Here you go. All metal carport. Bingo. Faraday cage..(per your request  :Stuart:  )

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## hunter63

> Here you go. All metal carport. Bingo. Faraday cage..(per your request  )
> 
> Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.


That is waaaaaaaayyyy too neat and clean.......

----------


## crashdive123

> That is waaaaaaaayyyy too neat and clean.......


Clearly not mine then.

----------


## hunter63

Hey, Crash,.... maybe we can take up a collection..... and help out Rick with some more "Stuff"....man the there Faraday Cage looks too empty.
Few yard sales /flea markets and gun shows....Should get that thing up to normal in a weekend.

----------


## kyratshooter

I have an extra boat and could probably fill it up with lumber and extra power tools from the stash.  I am only two or three hours from Rick and after seeing that photo I realize how much help he needs.

I could donate that and free up some space on the trailer line here at the place.

Don't worry, I'd never miss it.

----------


## hunter63

The only time the tractor/boat shed was that clean....is the day they finished building it.......

I could spare a trailer or two to donate, .....back up to 7 at the moment (not counting the A Frame camper that has been a shed for a lots of years....maybe a pull behind mower?

----------


## Rick

You guys just don't understand. When we have an EMP strike I'll run out there will all my electronics and toss them inside. Then it won't be clean but my TV will work. Won't have any stations to watch but....My computer will work but there won't be an internet.....my phone will work but there won't be cell service. Hey, wait a minute. I gotta rethink this thing.

----------


## hunter63

Ok, then.....just trying to help out a buddy.......

----------


## crashdive123

If we only knew where that darned canoe accident was we could probably fill it with rusty guns.

----------


## Rick

Oh sure. Pick on an old wound.

----------

