# General > General Guns & Ammo >  Source for AR15 build kit

## jim Glass

Can you folks recommend a source for an AR15 kit.   Was talking to a friend last night that says AR15 parts can be purchased for a  custom built  rifle so was thinking about a kit.   I assume the receiver must be purchased separately because it has the serial numbers.   Plan to use the custom built AR15 for wild hog hunting next winter.

I would like to think that I could build an AR15 for less money than I could buy one outright, right or wrong.

Please enlighten me.

Thanks, Jim

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## canid

You will often need to check a variety of the usual sources and see who has what in stock. Just about everybody's having at least some trouble keeping them on the shelves.

CTD, Midway, PSA, Brownells, etc.

Not sure I'd want .223/5.56 for hog, but people do it.

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## crashdive123

Here's a recent build thread that might be of help.  http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ighlight=build

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## kyratshooter

Jim check out PSA.  They consistently have the best buys on kits and separate uppers.

Watch the inclusions in the postings on their website,  When they say kit it generally includes the complete assembled upper with bolt carrier group and a complete stock with complete lower parts kit.  

I have three of their kits operating at the moment.  The parts have been good quality and I have not had to mess with them to make them work.  You simply assemble them and they shoot from the get-go.

If you watch their daily deals and sales you can catch good buys.  I have one rifle I did not intend to own but I could not pass up a complete PSA M4 build kit for $299 w/free shipping!  A $50 Anderson lower put me in business for $350 and not a single penny more.  

That cheap rifle is shooting 1 1/2" groups using a cheap scope and is about to be tuned and get a new scope for CMP Service Rifle competition at the local club.  I am pretty sure I can get it down to 1" groups with a little tweaking and a good scope.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05.html

Some other companies sell kits with uppers that are not assembled, or they are not complete and you have to buy more parts to fill them out.

I have one kit from Daytona Tactical which made a good shooter.  

http://daytonatactical.com/

Anderson also makes good stuff and supplies parts to a lot of the other kit suppliers.  they also make an excellent lower for an economical first build.

http://www.andersonrifles.com/

As you cruise through all the internet sources just make sure you are buying a whole kit, or that the total of the parts at one place does not exceed the cost of the complete kit at another.

Just looking around I see that prices are up a bit from what they were a couple of months back.

Good luck

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## jim Glass

This is what I'm thinking.   I used an M1` Carbine, borrowed from my brother,  to shoot some of the wild hogs.   I saw 3 M1 Carbines at a gun shop yesterday.   2 of them were $800 each and one was $1150 and I thought all of them were on the rough side.   But they must have been 
military issue or for some reason special to be priced that high.

I do not need a collector rifle or unique rifle for wild hog hunting.   I'm mainly interested in some kind of semi auto to do the job.
Kyratshooter, The PSA, M4 build kit sounds like what I'm looking for.

I have a Winchester X2 shotgun that is semi-auto but a slug barrel for it will cost $500.    I could go that way as well and found a gun shop that has the slug barrel.
Jim

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## Rick

Why can't you save some money and shoot rifled slugs out of your smooth bore as long as it isn't choked? You'll have to find the right ammo but at the distances you are shooting, 50 yards and in, you should be pretty accurate. You'll also have to figure out what your POI is on that particular gun with that particular ammo. You could spend a lot of money to do the same thing your shotgun is capable of doing.

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## hunter63

> Why can't you save some money and shoot rifled slugs out of your smooth bore as long as it isn't choked? You'll have to find the right ammo but at the distances you are shooting, 50 yards and in, you should be pretty accurate. You'll also have to figure out what your POI is on that particular gun with that particular ammo. You could spend a lot of money to do the same thing your shotgun is capable of doing.


Pssst....Rick, no fun in that.....Where would the firearm industry be with kind of thinking.......Money for new gun....chicken feed and you NEED it.

Besides a 12 ga with 1 oz. slugs........go "Boom, OUCH....and AR goes.....bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang...(How many was that?)...bang, bang.

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## Loneviking

> Pssst....Rick, no fun in that.....Where would the firearm industry be with kind of thinking.......Money for new gun....chicken feed and you NEED it.
> 
> Besides a 12 ga with 1 oz. slugs........go "Boom, OUCH....and AR goes.....bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang...(How many was that?)...bang, bang.


Yeah, bang, bang,bang....(run! Dang that pig is fast and mad!)....bang, bang, bang.....(quick climb a tree!)....bang, bang, bang...(what tree?)

BOOM, BOOM!  (Whew, brother,  glad you had that slug gun with you!).

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## Rick

Yeah, but, but.....I'm sorry.

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## jim Glass

> Why can't you save some money and shoot rifled slugs out of your smooth bore as long as it isn't choked? You'll have to find the right ammo but at the distances you are shooting, 50 yards and in, you should be pretty accurate. You'll also have to figure out what your POI is on that particular gun with that particular ammo. You could spend a lot of money to do the same thing your shotgun is capable of doing.


Now that is the kind of info I'm looking for.   Didn't know I could do that.   I should measure the ID of the borrowed slug barrel and the ID of the X2 barrel less the chocks.

Although, a good science project is always fun,,,,homebuilt AR15

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## canid

> But they must have been 
> military issue or for some reason special to be priced that high.


That's just the market at this point, or at least what it was like the last time I saw a couple on the shelves in Oregon.

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## kyratshooter

Jim as long as you shotgun has no more than a modified choke you will be fine shooting slugs from it.  

You can actually shoot slugs through a full choke with no harm.  Only the accuracy might be affected.

If your gun has screw in chokes just get an improved cylinder tube and use that.

But any excuse for an AR build is a good one and I would not skip this one.  It might be a while before you can justify another.

As for the M1 carbine, the ones that are coming on the market now are absolutely used up.  There is already a parts replacement industry springing up to furnish replacement barrels, operating rods, worn out magazine catches....

You could built 3 utility M4 units or one good target grade unit for what one of the surplus and reconditioned M1 carbines will cost.

And if you want a .30 caliber you can build a .300 Blackout, which is slightly more powerful than the M1 carbine, for the same price as the .223 build.

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## Batch

+1 on the shotgun slugs.

Also, I have built 3 AR's from PSA and have only had one problem. I have a AR magazine vise block and it fits 4 of my ARs. But, did not fit my last build. 

All of my AR mags fit the new build fine. But, the vise block was too big. I just wrapped a P-Mag in a towel and clamped it. Worked fine.

My next build is probably going to be a .300 Blackout.

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## kyratshooter

Here's your deal of the day.

A complete build kit needing only the stripped lower, $389.95.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/ptac-...rifle-kit.html

They also have a slick side kit for $10 less.  The difference being lack of a forward assist and ejection port cover.  Both of those items were requirements of the military an not on the original AR.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/ptac-...rifle-kit.html


Note that both those uppers come assembled, properly torqued and head-spaced.  Following a good set of You-tube instructions you can be shooting this gun within two hours of opening the packages.

A stripped lower should cost no more than $50 so with the lower and shipping included one should have a complete rifle for less then $450.  

Just about any scope you have lying around will work since this is a flat top.

PSA also has good prices and inventory on parts and accessories and they have an excellent proprietary metal 30 round magazine they put on sale about once a month for $6.

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## Batch

Slick side uppers also lack a brass deflector. Which may be a problem if you shoot left handed. 

If you need forward assist you can just push forward on the indent in the exposed BCG or just recharge the weapon. How often has anyone had to rely on the forward assist on their AR?

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## randyt

Is the 50 dollar lower a 80 percent receiver?

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## jim Glass

Sorry, never heard of a .300 Blackout.   Can you describe this round.   Must be 30 cal right?    Does someone offer a kit for a .300 Blackout or do you buy parts to convert a 223 to the .300.   I think I might like to build one of those.

Don't forget, I have 40 years experience hunting duck and geese with shotguns.   Never had a need or interest in a high powered rifle.   I know what a 30-06 and 30-30 round is but beyond that I'm pretty clueless.  I should also point out I need two different guns for hog hunting in Florida.   My buddy from Canada does not care to bring his own guns over the border so I bring an extra gun for him to use.   I did ok with the borrowed slug barrel for my 870 and the borrowed M1 Carbine.  I also had a crossbow with me but it didn't work out because of the close range shooting and all the vegetation in the Florida jungle.   Things that go "bang" are more fun anyway.

Really appreciate all the tips and ideas.   Thinking seriously of building an AR15 though.    Much depends on renewing the lease on my hog hunting property in Florida.  Thanks, Jim

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## Batch

Randy the $50 recievers are stripped lowers. Not 80%.

Jim the .300 Blackout uses the same parts as a .223 except the barrel. It is similar to an 7.62X39.

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## kyratshooter

The .300 Black Out is a .223 case blown out to .30 caliber.

It uses the standard AR operating parts, including magazines, except for the .30 barrel.

In power it falls right between the M1Carbine and the 7.62x39.  

M1carbine = 110gn bullet @ 1800-1900fps
.300 BO = 110gn bullet @ 2200fps
7.62x39= 125gn bullet @ 2400fps

The cartridge was originally designed so that one could reload 150 grain .30 caliber bullets to sub-sonic levels and use them through a silencer.  It works for that very well but very few people have that use for the unit.  What they wind up with is a .30 caliber that works on their AR platform and  more than equals the .30 carbine at half the price.

You can start with a kit in .300AAC, or you can build a standard .223/5.56 AR and buy a .300 upper as an add on.

Most companies that furnish build kits have .300 AAC/BO available, unless they are sold out.

http://daytonatactical.com/collectio...out-rifle-kits

I have a unit from Daytona Tactical and it is a good shooter.  An 8" pistol that will group inside 1 1/2"@50 yards using an aim point.  


And like Batch said, the stripped lowers are ready to assemble with no further machining needed.  Lowers are available in both aluminum and Poly from several companies.  Finished stripped poly lowers are as cheap as $29.  Finished stripped aluminum lowers are as cheap as $45.

Real price will depend on the market and supply in your area.  Anderson Firearms is about 20 miles down the road from me and everyone in my area has Anderson lowers for $50.  If they have to order something for me they charge me shipping and fees so a few bucks lower price is not a savings for me.

And stripped lowers and 80% lowers are two separate entities.  80% lowers require some machine tool experience, even if using the poly type, and good ability reading blueprints so you do not screw up your first build.

The 80% lowers are not something I would recommend for you as the "average duck hunter", unless you are an average duck hunter with a few months experience using a Bridgeport mill behind you. 

And oddly, every company charges more for their units in 80% form than they do for their finished stripped lowers!  

Who would figure?

http://www.tnarmsco.com/hybrid-polym...free-shipping/

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...Lower+Receiver

Buds is $10 higher than I pay locally for the Anderson unit.  Many LGS have their own deals and the generic AR lowers are about the same quality all over.

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## druid

> Can you folks recommend a source for an AR15 kit.   Was talking to a friend last night that says AR15 parts can be purchased for a  custom built  rifle so was thinking about a kit.   I assume the receiver must be purchased separately because it has the serial numbers.   Plan to use the custom built AR15 for wild hog hunting next winter.
> 
> I would like to think that I could build an AR15 for less money than I could buy one outright, right or wrong.
> 
> Please enlighten me.
> 
> Thanks, Jim


I built mine for under $800 to include the scope. This is what I did:

Stripped upper + lower receivers, flash hider, barrel, gas block and tube were all bought from Anderson manufacturing. The lower receiver is the only "registered" part the ATF worries about and is the part you have to do the paperwork for. All other parts can be purchased from anywhere and can be sent to your home through the mail. 

* My advice - Get a version that boasts "M4 feed ramps" and either in actual 5.56 or in .223 Wylde. The 5.56 or .223 Wylde chamberings will allow you to shoot 5.56 NATO - but a .223 Remington chamber will *NOT*. .223 Remington is dedicated to .223 Remington *ONLY*. If you shoot 5.56 through a dedicated .223 Remington, you will blow the breech because the pressures are higher.

My Bolt is a Fail Zero and is nickel boron coated.

Almost every other part is about as "generic" as you can get. My safety is from Seekins Precision and is ambidextrous.


The things that matter most [IMO] are upper receiver, barrel and bolt. NEVER skimp on those. The barrel I bought was not the one I wanted. The one I did want was not S/S, it was parkerized but was out of stock for over a month. I made a compromise but I compromised _up_...not down and got the S/S instead. I'm not sorry I did that.

The rest of the build were items I got off Amazon...with the exception of fire control group [trigger group], buffer tube and stock. Those I got from my Lt.

You don't have to go hog wild on the build. Focus on a goal for the rifle. What do you want it to do vs what can you expect from it. For the plinker/home defense/room-clearing rifle, stay with a 16" carbine set up. If you want a smoother shooting rifle that will reach out a little farther, go "rifle length" of 18" to 20" barrels....either in mid or rifle gas lengths. For hog hunting, I'd say a 16" [carbine set up] would be absolutely fine. The 16" carbine style is good to go to abut 400 yards with a proper scope.

Here are some pics:

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mine was built as a "designated marksman" type rifle - not quite a sniper rifle but not exactly a grunt-gun either. 

Hand guards are just that - hand guards. You can spend $400 for a Troy industries if you _have_ to have the "bling" ....or be like me and spend just $33 for the one you see. They do the same thing - guard your hand from heat of the barrel and at the same time, protect the gas tube [and in my case, the] adjustable gas block from bumps, damage and from burning your hand.

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## jim Glass

This is looking better and better all the time.

"And stripped lowers and 80% lowers are two separate entities. 80% lowers require some machine tool experience, even if using the poly type, and good ability reading blueprints so you do not screw up your first build.

 The 80% lowers are not something I would recommend for you as the "average duck hunter", unless you are an average duck hunter with a few months experience using a Bridgeport mill behind you. 

 And oddly, every company charges more for their units in 80% form than they do for their finished stripped lowers! "

I wondered what 80% was about.   I'm actually an "Average duck Hunter" with 45 years experience using a Bridgeport and have my own Bridgeport in my garage.
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## Rick

Oh, man. Could I do some serious damage with that bad boy. Mostly to myself unfortunately. That's a nice set up! Jet makes some great stuff.

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## druid

80% lowers

$55 [scroll down]
http://www.ar15-kits.com/contents/en...centlower.html

$75
http://www.americanweaponscomponents...-receiver-kit/

$75
http://www.americanweaponscomponents...er-receiver-2/

$100
http://www.80percentarms.com/collect...d-billet-ar-15


Build videos
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...eiver+milling+


Yes, an 80% lower can be more costly than a serial numbered lower.....but no one but you knows you have it? Priceless.

Everything else I posted above applies.

Another thing to keep in mind is that one completed AR15 lower will be multi caliber for; 5.56/.223; 300 blackout; 7.62x39; 9mm luger; .22 cal......all you need to do is build the upper for those other calibers. Dismount the 5.56/.223 upper and mount a different upper. One lower, several uppers for several calibers.

the AR10 is on it's own though. It's .308 and not compatible with AR15 [5.56/.223] components.

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## canid

Oh man, your mill makes mine very, very sad. I am entirely determined to have a bridgeport or decent clone in my shop eventually. One thing I'll say about mine though; it was a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to cnc.

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## finallyME

It is hard to find an 80% lower that is cheaper than a stripped lower.  But, you don't have to deal with the ol' serial number thing.  If you have that mill in your garage, why not get an 80%.  Here is one for $50.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod75038.aspx
I can usually find a stripped Anderson lower for the same price.  But like I was saying....if I had your mill in my garage, I would be buying 80% lowers.  You can also buy a blank and do even more work on it.

To reiterate what others are saying...if you want cheap and easy, buy a PSA rifle kit and then a stripped lower at your local gun shop.  If you like to be supper picky about every part... go to brownells and buy every piece individually.  You can buy all the individual parts from PSA, but Brownells has a larger selection.

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## druid

> It is hard to find an 80% lower that is cheaper than a stripped lower.  But, you don't have to deal with the ol' serial number thing.  If you have that mill in your garage, why not get an 80%.  Here is one for $50.
> http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod75038.aspx
> I can usually find a stripped Anderson lower for the same price.  But like I was saying....if I had your mill in my garage, I would be buying 80% lowers.  You can also buy a blank and do even more work on it.
> 
> To reiterate what others are saying...if you want cheap and easy, buy a PSA rifle kit and then a stripped lower at your local gun shop.  If you like to be supper picky about every part... go to brownells and buy every piece individually.  You can buy all the individual parts from PSA, but Brownells has a larger selection.


pishaw.......if I had his mill in my garage, I'd have 2 huge piles of aluminum and steel billets just _waiting_ to be molested......

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## kyratshooter

Yea, I would wind up going blind and numb from lack of sleep cranking on a nice machine like that.  In fact, I would be building some AK actions out of old shovels if I had a mill.

I have done my builds using a stand up drill press and cross slide vice, which is not very stable or precise, which is why I have stayed with the poly lower builds.  The plastic mills like hot butter. 

One thing about having the experience you have Jim, is that you would not really need one of the expensive jigs to do an aluminum lower.  You know how to index the billet and work from the zero settings and properly locate the pins.  The jigs they sell are for folks that really have no training or that want to make several lowers rapidly.

With the 80% lower they usually have the mag well, mag catch and bolt catch already machined in as well as the tiny holes for the retention springs/pins all through the unit.  All you really have to do is mill out the fire control section.  

After you set it up and zero it in you hog it out leaving .050" on the bottom and about the same on the sides, mill the trigger slot, put it together and you are ready to shoot.  Blueprints are available on line and there is not much that is really "critical" in the 20% the builder has to finish.  Just some tricky areas you learn about the hard way if you are not careful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ar+1...AQIIg&dpr=1.25

I would still purchase a finished lower for the initial build.  It is cheaper than an 80% and it will give you a finished pattern part to compare any lower you build latter.  

If you do build an 80% lower afterward no one still knows what you actually have, and if the gun grabbers ever do get frisky you can strip the registered lower and turn it in, because that is the "gun" and you turned it in.

I bought it stripped and that is exactly the way they would get it turned in.

And when you buy the lower you might want to HAVE IT REGISTERED AS A MULTI CALIBER PISTOL FRAME!  You can use the rifle barrel on a pistol frame but you can not place a pistol upper on a lower registered as a rifle!  If it is a pistol you can change back and forth just by switching uppers and the buttstock.  Takes about 10 minutes to change buffer tubes.  

I do enjoy these little late night discussions. Wish we had a campfire to sit around but I suppose a glowing computer screen will do.

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## jim Glass

Ok, here is my game plan.   I'm going to order an Anderson 80% lower right now, then order a complete AR15 kit after that.   My machine shop business has been shut down for around 10 weeks so my cash flow is low for now.   Already have some jobs invoiced out so when the cash comes rolling in I'll order the kit.

What do I do for a serial number on the lower??

You guys have me all pumped up on this AR15 build but that is a good thing.

My first gun build:Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

To be continued. 

Thanks, Jim

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## kyratshooter

If you are doing the 80% lower first take a good look at the blue prints.  The only really tricky part is the back of the fire control group where the hole is predrilled for the safety retainer pin/spring (comes up from the bottom and captured by the pistol grip).  There is a little bump there you have to go around and that area is also thin at the bottom due to the angle of the pistol grip connection point.  Just a heads up.

And when you order the kit be sure and order one that has the assembled upper.  It will already be headspaced and ready to go.  If you get the ones with the upper not assembled you will need to buy an upper vise block, to protect the upper, which will add to the cost and you will probably never use again.

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## druid

> Yea, I would wind up going blind and numb from lack of sleep cranking on a nice machine like that.  In fact, I would be building some AK actions out of old shovels if I had a mill.
> 
> *I have done my builds using a stand up drill press and cross slide vice, which is not very stable or precise, which is why I have stayed with the poly lower builds.  The plastic mills like hot butter.* 
> 
> One thing about having the experience you have Jim, is that you would not really need one of the expensive jigs to do an aluminum lower.  You know how to index the billet and work from the zero settings and properly locate the pins.  The jigs they sell are for folks that really have no training or that want to make several lowers rapidly.
> 
> With the 80% lower they usually have the mag well, mag catch and bolt catch already machined in as well as the tiny holes for the retention springs/pins all through the unit.  All you really have to do is mill out the fire control section.  
> 
> After you set it up and zero it in you hog it out leaving .050" on the bottom and about the same on the sides, mill the trigger slot, put it together and you are ready to shoot.  Blueprints are available on line and there is not much that is really "critical" in the 20% the builder has to finish.  Just some tricky areas you learn about the hard way if you are not careful.
> ...


The part I made bold.....how do you like the polymer lowers? how "rugged" re they when they are completed? I'm not talking about "butt-striking" someone's jaw or anything crazy like that but as a 'general' durability. What say you?




> Ok, here is my game plan.   I'm going to order an Anderson 80% lower right now, then order a complete AR15 kit after that.   My machine shop business has been shut down for around 10 weeks so my cash flow is low for now.   Already have some jobs invoiced out so when the cash comes rolling in I'll order the kit.
> *
> What do I do for a serial number on the lower??*
> 
> You guys have me all pumped up on this AR15 build but that is a good thing.
> 
> To be continued. 
> 
> Thanks, Jim


The part I made bold......If you are making it for yourself, the answer is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. No serial number is required at all, ever. If anything and I were making it for me, I might scribe the year I made it somewhere on the lower but other than that, I'd do nothing. If you intend to sell them though....then you must follow NFA regulations which is available here: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...l-firearms-act

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## kyratshooter

I wondered about the durability of poly myself until I realized that there are a mess of old Generation 1 Glocks still shooting fine after 30 years and they take a lot more direct stress abuse than an AR lower will ever get.

In fact, I own several poly framed handguns in 9mm, .40 and .45 and I have put a lot of rounds through them and carry them as EDC with no concerns.  Why should I worry about an AR lower?

99% of the stress in the AR operation is in the upper.  The lower is just there to hold the fire control group and buffer tube in proper location. 

My only real concern is the fact that the hammer and trigger pin holes might wallow out egg shaped, so I bought a set of pin supports, which cost nearly as much as a stripped aluminum lower!

I have almost 1k through my polly using it in both rifle and pistol modes and it shows no wear or problems and I have taken the buffer tube off and swapped things around a lot while playing with the unit. 

When shooting I can not tell the difference between the poly and the alloy.  Canot tell from looking at them from 10 feet away either.

Some of the companies have done some real torture tests on their poly frames and the results are amazing.  Tennessee Arms Company has their test results on line.

http://www.tnarmsco.com/videos-and-pics/

Go to OTHER heading and click on pics and videos

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## jim Glass

Is one better than the other, PSA, Daytona Tactical or Anderson?   Daytona Tactical has my interest.

Also, the handle looking device on top of an M16, is that something that can be added to an AR-15 or is part of the upper and needs to be bought with the handle on it?  

My 80% lower from Brownells just arrived, looks good
 Jim

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## Batch

Yes, you can put a carry handle on a flat top. Google AR carry handle and you'll get lots of hits. I have one on one of my ARs. It is a little tight for my hands and it also incorporates the rear sight.

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## kyratshooter

I also have a carry handle w/rear sight, which I never use.   the flat top allows too many options to have the entire thing taken up by the carrying handle.  The flat top rail was one of the best modifications they ever did to the AR, allowing normal scopes and sight systems to be applied. 

optional rear sights are not usually a problem but if you are not using a triangle tower front sight you have to be careful because some of the gas blocks with short rails are lower than the rear rail and need a taller sight.

I do not use the carrying handle sight because it limits my options.  If using a red dot and peep sights on the flat top the three sights will usually line up, or co-witness, giving you a rear sight and front sight with a red dot sitting on top of the front sight post.

Most of the time the flat top is also long enough to allow one to mount a flip up rear sight with a scope, just in case.  

I have one set up with a scope and 45% offset peep sights so I can tilt the rifle at a 45% angle and see the sights for close work.

I find that it is these options for the AR that eat my money because they are deceptively cheap.  $15 here and $20 there and $12 another place and soon you have a shoebox full of sights.  Same for $10 pistol grips and gas blocks and front hand guards and butt stocks. 

Your choices are infinite.  You are playing with a Lego set.

Go for it.

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## druid

> Is one better than the other, PSA, Daytona Tactical or Anderson?   Daytona Tactical has my interest.
> 
> Also, the handle looking device on top of an M16, is that something that can be added to an AR-15 or is part of the upper and needs to be bought with the handle on it?  
> 
> My 80% lower from Brownells just arrived, looks good
>  Jim


The general truth is that all mass-produced aluminum uppers and lowers are basically forged or machined at any one of 3-5 major manufacturers.  PSA will put an order in for say 5,000, Anderson 2,000, RRA 10,000 and have their information engraved or machined into the metal making them "theirs." There may be exceptions to the rule but I'd think they would be fewer than one would think. The exception being the polymer lowers and uppers...I think if they are not made by the particular seller, perhaps one or 2 manufacturers make them for marketing by those companies. I'm not 100% on that though.

I used the 'stripped' Anderson upper and lower. Everything is already milled and my lower is serial numbered [requiring the ATF forms]. I simply had to buy the parts kits and assemble it.

And yes, the A2 handle can be added to any flat top with a rail. When buying sights though, make sure they are proper for that build [with the handle] and if you scope/red dot the rifle, make sure it has the _lowest_ scope mount you can find for that handle.

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## druid

Just got mine sighted in  :Smile:  . 25M, American Eagle M855 Ball. Wind was a bit gusty at somewhere +/- 2 - 4 mph. It's not .223 accuracy but it'll do for now.

Yellow = scope, black = iron sights

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## kyratshooter

In fact, the Anderson uppers and lowers are manufactured in the Anderson plant.  Anderson is one of the places the others call to have theirs done.

It is about 20 miles down the road from the house.  Been there and seen them being built.  They also build a raft of small parts as well as fore end sleeves.

And like most other things, where you put what is much a matter of preference.  Especially with the straight line design of the AR.  The Closer to the line of bore one gets with the scope the more difficult it is to keep the rifle straight up and down when sighting.  

If the sight is flat on the rail you have to bend your head at a 90% angle to get one eye in position to line up the scope or sights, or you have to cant the rifle.  The higher the scope the less angle needed from either neck bending or canting the rifle.  

This is a well known problem and is even addressed in the CMP Service Rifle competition rules, with maximum height of scope or sights over bore specified.  Basically means that the higher the sight the easier it is to shoot, so they limit the height to even the field.

It is also one reason the M4 was designed with the collapsing stock.  It is easier to shorten the LOP for use with body armor and easier to cant the rifle in close combat situations.

The Marines, still using the fixed A2 stock until recently, were engaging in close combat house clearing type activities with the A2 stock over the top of their shoulders and the rifle angled with the grip 90% away from the body.

It's a Lego set, fix it the way you want it.

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## jim Glass

I'm a bit confused.   I'm ready to buy a kit and looking at Daytona Tactical.   I was looking seriously at .300 Blackout kit but it looks like the AR15 .223/5.56 is the cheaper way start out.   All I need is .300 barrel and this rifle can be .300 Blackout.   A  different bolt and magazine and it can be a .22 LR right.   Therefore, I can start out with the AR15 .223/5.56, buy a barrel for .300 Blackout, and a bolt for .22 LR.    Spread out my expenses while I have a gun to shoot.  Eventually buy an upper receiver and lower and I'll almost have 2 guns.

http://daytonatactical.com/products/...er-unassembled

Sorry, thinking out loud.   Jim

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## Batch

Switching an upper from .223 to .300 is going to be a lot quicker and easier than a barrel.

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## kyratshooter

Do not be confused Jim.  It works almost as easily as you are seeing.

You start out with your AR lower.  It will be universal.

Then you get the "build kit" in whichever caliber you desire; .223/5.56 or .300bo.

After you do the build you can order just the upper for the other caliber.  You can probably use the same Bolt carrier group and charging handle for both.

I would go with a full upper for each caliber and not try to change barrels periodically.  I would be afraid of wear on the upper threads and such.

I noticed the other day that Daytona had a .300BO upper for $250.  Both PSA and Daytona keep uppers in both calibers at prices from $200 and up.

You can then find a conversion kit for .22lr that will fit your .223 upper.  The fast twist of the .223 is not exceptionally accurate but they are about as good as any other .22lr.  Buds Gun Shop has .22lr conversion kits for around $200.

So yes, you can have one lower and uppers for both .223/.22lr AND .300BO.

Which build kit in what caliber you choose is up to you.  Usually the Daytona kits are the same price for either caliber and I am a little surprised they have different prices at the moment.

Also be aware that the Daytona website has hidden nooks and crannies where they stash good deals hidden from sight and away from the main page.  Check out their clearance pages and go to the AR section and straight to the caliber you desire.

PSA does the same and I managed to snag a full build kit minus the lower for $299 last summer from their daily deals page.  With the $50 Anderson lower I had an AR for $350.

And at this point prices are changing daily.  I think it has more to do with supply/demand and manufacturing capability than anything else.  Pages and pages of accessories are listed as out of stock by every dealer at the moment.

I have been avoiding making the plunge into .300BO.  My son has one and loves it and it is a good idea for the medium game of my area, but I am already heavily invested in 7.62x39 shooters and they have a good edge on the .300BO.

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## canid

If I wanted to break into an AR and didn't need my ultimate application yet I'd probably start 5.56 also. If I did, I'd build for what I want to use it for. You'll always end up wanting an upper for every role. Then you'll end up wanting a lower for every upper and it's nice to not have to be in a hurry about that.

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## jim Glass

My goal is to have a .300 blackout for hog hunting and a .22 LR for shootin.    I can do change overs for a while but eventually have complete uppers and complete lowers.

I ordered the AR15 .223/5.56 just now and already have an 80% Anderson lower on hand.   Plus, I'm going to a huge gun show this weekend at Kane county.  Who knows what I'll find there.    Still need gun sights for the AR 15.

This is going to be fun.   Jim

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## kyratshooter

> If I wanted to break into an AR and didn't need my ultimate application yet I'd probably start 5.56 also. If I did, I'd build for what I want to use it for. You'll always end up wanting an upper for every role. Then you'll end up wanting a lower for every upper and it's nice to not have to be in a hurry about that.


Or you wind up seeing cheap offers for uppers and since a lower is only $50 you go ahead and rationalize the purchase and pretty soon you have one in every corner and the next one in the milling vise!

Like I said, they are like Tribbles.

Seems like you have a plan in place Jim.  

And do not forget that you can slap a scope on the flat top and not ever deal with irons unless you get a real good deal on them.

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## druid

FWIW, I got my iron sights on Amazon...and they are pretty much identical to a stock set....just at a 45* angle. My rear sight seems "backwards" but it's because it's mounted on the left side of the rifle instead of the right:

http://www.amazon.com/Zengi-Degree-S...ilpage_o00_s00

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L._SL1500_.jpg

They are pretty much dead-on and adjust no different than "regular" sights. These are sturdy, non-folding and definitely doable...

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## finallyME

> Or you wind up seeing cheap offers for uppers and since a lower is only $50 you go ahead and rationalize the purchase and pretty soon you have one in every corner and the next one in the milling vise!
> 
> Like I said, they are like Tribbles.
> 
> Seems like you have a plan in place Jim.  
> 
> And do not forget that you can slap a scope on the flat top and not ever deal with irons unless you get a real good deal on them.


Kinda what I was thinking.  The lower is the cheapest part.  Once you spend more than $400 on an upper, you might as well drop the $100-!50 on a complete lower for it.

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## hunter63

Lalalalalalalalalala.....Not reading this......Lalalalalalala........don't try to temp me.......Lalalalalala

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## jim Glass

For machining the AR-15 80% lower I found this place to be the best source for drawings.   Scroll down to see
the top and side views.

http://optimusdefense.com/image/data...inspection.pdf

Be careful using other sources because I printed out drawings for the AR-10 and/or .308.   Those drawings are a little different from the AR-15 

Ordered a set of sights from here:   http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Flip-...912390&sr=1-16

Don't go to Zengi Sporting, they claim to be sold out of the same sight.    I'll probably buy a laser sight from 
Zengi.    https://www.zengisports.com/index.ph...y/laser-sight/
Jim

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## canid

More than a little different. They are almost entirely dimensionally dissimilar.

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## druid

> For machining the AR-15 80% lower I found this place to be the best source for drawings.   Scroll down to see
> the top and side views.
> 
> http://optimusdefense.com/image/data...inspection.pdf
> 
> Be careful using other sources because I printed out drawings for the AR-10 and/or .308.   Those drawings are a little different from the AR-15 
> 
> Ordered a set of sights from here:   http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Flip-...912390&sr=1-16
> 
> ...


On the sights.....yeah, they were plenty in stock when I ordered mine...which was back in January. Those flip-ups are nice....I just didn't want them myself. I know how I am on gear....and is why I ordered the non-folding versions. The flip ups for me wouldn't last.

As far as lasers goes, hey.....it's your build....rock out with your....uh.....nvm.....

..........but don't get pulled into the 'adding a ton of crap to your rifle' club either. My personal opinion is to just add what you need. My example is my own build. It's an SPR...a "Dedicated Marksman" rifle-type role....which is the "intermediate" between "grunt-gun" [light and fast carbine] and 'sniper.' Every defensive rifle should have a light and some type of iron sight....even when scoped or red dotted. Remember that everything else translates to added weight. All ounces add up to pounds. The only "extras" I plan to add to my current set up is one thing - a bipod...but again, it's a designated and specific role. Now....were I to build another upper for "light and tight" [which I will be doing btw]...it's going to be a 16" carbine with a co-witnessed red dot. Nothing else.

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## jim Glass

Hey, I understand.   My AR-15 is intended for wild hog hunting in Florida where hunting will be fairly close range and often at night in total darkness.   I'm leaning towards a 10 round magazine because of weight and I want to avoid things protruding out from the rifle like a 30 round magazine.    The build would be much different if the rifle was for deer hunting or target shooting.   This is what I find amazing with AR-15s.   They can be custom made to fit the application and then converted to something different.

Thanks for the tip on the gun sights.  They should suit my needs just fine.    Jim

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## kyratshooter

Another thing to watch out for with the flip up sights is that some of them are made from polymer.

If you mount them on the front gas block they will melt after a few rounds.

As for magazines, the 30 is not that much bigger than the 20 and the 10 round is exactly the same size as a 20.  10 round mags are normally just 20 round bodies with a stop to limit the capacity to 10 rounds.

As for your application, do you need some of those luminous sights and a suppressor?

We can hook you up with a guy we know!

I think I would be leaning toward a red dot for use at dusk or dark like you are facing.  Zero power, both eyes open, dot on the hog and BANG!

Your conditions are exactly why I go with red dots and illuminated reticle scopes.  iron sights simply disappear in those lighting conditions and I might as well not even have them on the firearm. 

Of course that is just me and my eyes, but I gave up on irons 30 years ago.

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## OddJob

I'd love to have access to legal weapons like you do stateside, I'd spend a fortune on guns if I had half the chance.
You have to jump through hoops like a mad man here in Europe to even get a hunting license. But even at that we don't get anything as fun as an AR15 to play with.

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## kyratshooter

I don't know what to say about that.  Partly politics and partly social conditioning, and highly localized.

On one hand the Europeans, especially the British, say out of one side of their mouths that they envy us our firearms freedoms.

Then out of the other side of their mouths they call us uncouth, gun slinging cowboys, unwilling to compromise for the "common good".

In some of our minds firearms ownership is the thing that guarantees the "common good".

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## canid

Yes; it's got to be people talking out of both sides of their mouths, because we know it's impossible for different people in one place to have their own views as separate, distinct human beings.

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## Rick

And that's why mouth's have two sides. Well, corners. Lips? Never mind.

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## OddJob

> I don't know what to say about that.  Partly politics and partly social conditioning, and highly localized.
> 
> On one hand the Europeans, especially the British, say out of one side of their mouths that they envy us our firearms freedoms.
> 
> Then out of the other side of their mouths they call us uncouth, gun slinging cowboys, unwilling to compromise for the "common good".
> 
> In some of our minds firearms ownership is the thing that guarantees the "common good".




Well yes, I agree. 
On a personal level I'd like "free" access to guns as I know I'd be handling them properly and storing them away out of harms way.
But I also agree that there should be tighter control on guns stateside, not necessarily in how readily available they are but in how they are stored.
Make it mandatory to store em locked up in some fashion to keep them away from kids.

What, schizo, me ?!?! Nah
Just don't call me British, my wife would kill me  :Smile:

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## Rick

But, but, I don't have kids in the house. Why would I need to lock them up? But, but, how would I get to them if I needed to defend myself? But, but, the Constitution doesn't require them the be locked up.

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## OddJob

Don't know you enough to be sure, but i do detect some sarcasm.

Anyway, if we are to go in to it and go way off topic (sorry OP), yep, I can see that viewpoint, I don't necessarily agree with it but I get it.
However, don't want to crap on the no politics rule in my first week here, so I'll put a sock in it...for now  :Smile:

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## finallyME

There is a political section for discussing the ol' politics.  Feel free to discuss there.

As for the ongoing discussion... Magpull makes a pretty good 10 round magazine.  It is shorter than a 20 rounder, just barely makes it out of the mag well.  I bought one for fun, and mostly bench rest shooting.  I only bought one because I only need one.  I have many 30 rounders and plan to buy many more.  But, the 10 rounder is nice to have once in a while.

With my AR build, I put a permanent front sight, exact same as the issued M16.  The back pop up sight is aluminum.  Then I put a red dot.  For a while, I thought the back pop up kept moving every time I poped it up.  I later found the red dot mount was loosening.  I didn't loctite it like I should have.

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## hunter63

Neighbor and friend deer hunts with a 6.8 AR build.....both he and his wife....builds AR's as a hobby.

He has been working with a local guy that manufactures 5 round mag's for his AR deer rifle....so as to not catch in the brush.

At some point I guess I am just gonna have to get in the game...

There is the old Colt target model laying around....but I hear some the pins are a different size.
That is set up similar to a early M16....carry handle and all.

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## kyratshooter

I have no idea what pins could be different on a Colt target model than a regular AR.  The only pins present are the hammer and trigger pins and the two through pins that hold the lower to the upper.

Even if there is some difference in the pins in the lower that should not hinder your use of whatever upper you wish to slap onto the Colt target lower.

If your target Colt is set up for National match service rifle competition, which it would be if set up like a military M16, then the trigger is polished to give a 4.5 pound pull, which is the lowest pull allowed in national match competition.

Just look at the uppers as if they were Handi-rifle barrels.  That should make you feel better from the start.  You have a precision Colt lower and you are slapping uppers in various calibers into that lower, just like you do with a Hand-rifle!  

No difference, just one is a SS and the other a semi-auto.  You might not get a .45/70 to work on the Colt but you can have a 50 Beowulf!

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## jim Glass

Have the 80% lower receiver finish machined today.   I thought it was a pain in the neck.   The time I spent on it did not justify what little money I saved.  Of course there are other benefits to doing the work yourself.

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Link to more pics of the machine work:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jglass/slideshow/AR-15

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## kyratshooter

The only real benefit to using the 80% lower is the psychological side effect of not having the lower registered.

In a practical nature it is far from cost affective.

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## canid

I really need to make me some of those machinists clamps. They're handy. I have an odd collection mostly of cheap c-clamps. At least some of them have butterss/acme threads which represent probably 99% of their value. But hey; turning them into good clamps isn't the most cost effective way to get good clamps either.

Your 80 looks to be coming along nicely. You going to anodize?

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## jim Glass

> I really need to make me some of those machinists clamps. They're handy. I have an odd collection mostly of cheap c-clamps. At least some of them have butterss/acme threads which represent probably 99% of their value. But hey; turning them into good clamps isn't the most cost effective way to get good clamps either.
> 
> Your 80 looks to be coming along nicely. You going to anodize?


My source for anodizing has a  $60 minimum.   I can buy another 80% lower that's been anodized for that kind of money.   Might use it as is or try painting it.

I had my own setup for anodizing but became tired of having the chemicals around the house so I got rid of most of them.

Any ideas for turning the receiver black?  

I have a question on firing a .22 LR through a .223 barrel.   Isn't a 22 LR going to almost disappear in a .223 firing chamber.    There must be an insert to convert the firing chamber from .223 to .22 LR
 Jim

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## canid

cerakote? It's what I'd do, though I'd still want to have more than one part lined up first.

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## kyratshooter

> Any ideas for turning the receiver black?  
> 
> I have a question on firing a .22 LR through a .223 barrel.   Isn't a 22 LR going to almost disappear in a .223 firing chamber.    There must be an insert to convert the firing chamber from .223 to .22 LR
>  Jim


As a first, fast and cheap suggestion I would think about using high temp engine paint on that raw aluminum.  

Second choice would be pickup truck bed liner spray.  That is really tough stuff and I have done a couple of gun stocks with it.  Comes in a spray can at Walmart.

The .22 conversions come in two forms.  Chippa makes a dedicated .22lr upper that you simply use as a replacement for the .223 upper.  They are sold out all the time and difficult to find.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod...fType=&from=fn

The other system uses a replacement for the bolt carrier group that has an insert on the front that fills the .223 chamber.  The back of it contains a blow back .22lr bolt unit.  These adapters come with a separate magazine.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...bly+With+Three

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...2+ARC+KIT+25RD

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## finallyME

Yeah, forget about saving any money.  When you can buy an anodized, complete, stripped lower for $50, and the cheapest 80% is $50....  I am sure that someone who likes to break laws can make money off of them... but again... illegal.
Like KYRS said, the only real benefit is no registration.  Controlling tolerances is also a benefit, but most of the accuracy is in the upper receiver, barrel, and trigger group.

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## Lamewolf

> You will often need to check a variety of the usual sources and see who has what in stock. Just about everybody's having at least some trouble keeping them on the shelves.
> 
> CTD, Midway, PSA, Brownells, etc.
> 
> Not sure I'd want .223/5.56 for hog, but people do it.


If a .223 is too light for you, how about a 458 Socom - 500 grain @ 3000 FPS !

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## Lamewolf

> Can you folks recommend a source for an AR15 kit.   Was talking to a friend last night that says AR15 parts can be purchased for a  custom built  rifle so was thinking about a kit.   I assume the receiver must be purchased separately because it has the serial numbers.   Plan to use the custom built AR15 for wild hog hunting next winter.
> 
> I would like to think that I could build an AR15 for less money than I could buy one outright, right or wrong.
> 
> Please enlighten me.
> 
> Thanks, Jim


Sent you a link by personal message.

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## kyratshooter

And on a secondary note we have to remember that one goal was to accomplish this cheaper than store bought.  

Sometimes we get pushed right up to the edge of accomplishing that.

https://www.kygunco.com/smith-and-we...n=Get%20Loaded

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## jim Glass

So far I'm not impressed with Daytona Tactical.   I ordered my AR-15 kit a week ago today.   They emailed me an order confirmation but that is it.   I have no experience ordering gun parts on the internet so this could be normal.  I order tooling for my shop and receive it in 1 or 2 days.

I called 386 308-2710 and heard a recording saying I need to download "Magic Jack" to make free phone calls.
I called 386 682-3885 and heard a recording they will let me know when my order ships.
I emailed them and waiting for  a reply.

I have know doubt Daytona Tactical is hounded with phone calls every day.  I know that I do and I don't do business over the internet.   But, at the same time customer service is customer service.   Is this typical in the gun business.

I ordered the 80% lower receiver from Brownells and received it in 2 or 3 days.

Just venting,   Jim

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## kyratshooter

Most of the internet gun parts suppliers take a while for delivery.

2-3 weeks is not unusual.

Most of my PSA orders take over a week but I always wait for the free shipping offers so I do not have much room for complaining when it is free.

I believe my last Daytona Tactical order was a 2 week deal but I do not remember, I was not in a hurry so I was not paying much attention.

I must admit that I was forewarned about long shipping delays before I began the eternal quest for AR parts.  It seems to be part of the deal industry wide.  

Sometimes I think the suppliers are working off assumed production rather than inventory in stock.  They have a stack of barrels, a pile of uppers and various assorted boxes of parts and go to work when the order comes in.

That is also part of the "lego set" nature of the AR.  There is little way anyone can anticipate the daily market trends in length of barrel, handguard length, gas tube length, round guards or sleves or keymod rails...

They show, on the internet, what they "can do" and build your order as it comes in.

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## Rick

I wouldn't be surprised if they are drop shipping them directly from the manufacturer.

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## druid

> So far I'm not impressed with Daytona Tactical.   I ordered my AR-15 kit a week ago today.   They emailed me an order confirmation but that is it.   I have no experience ordering gun parts on the internet so this could be normal.  I order tooling for my shop and receive it in 1 or 2 days.
> 
> I called 386 308-2710 and heard a recording saying I need to download "Magic Jack" to make free phone calls.
> I called 386 682-3885 and heard a recording they will let me know when my order ships.
> I emailed them and waiting for  a reply.
> 
> I have know doubt Daytona Tactical is hounded with phone calls every day.  I know that I do and I don't do business over the internet.   But, at the same time customer service is customer service.   Is this typical in the gun business.
> 
> I ordered the 80% lower receiver from Brownells and received it in 2 or 3 days.
> ...





> I wouldn't be surprised if they are drop shipping them directly from the manufacturer.


^^ Exactly.

Another thing to note is that I'm still shopping around to build a 16" upper for my platform and many....*many*....of the places I looked are out of stock on almost everything necessary.......bolt carrier groups and upper receivers in general. 

When I built my DM rifle, I waited for more than a month for the 'out of stock' barrel I wanted. I ended up going one grade up just so I could do the build. That particular barrel _still_ hasn't been replenished at my favorite store [Anderson]. In fact, Anderson can't keep much of anything in stock....receiver halves or BCGs....

It's been said many times and even by himself - Obama has become the greatest firearms salesman in US history. Try to take that into account when feeling disgruntled about delayed purchase deliveries.

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## finallyME

PSA always takes FOR...EV....ER... to ship.  But it gets there eventually.  Just expect that when ordering from them.  BCM delivers pretty fast.

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## druid

For anyone wanting to build a really small "always-on-the-go" set up, I just found this to make you all mad at me for spending your money for you........LOL

Folding AR stock adapter:

http://www.lawtactical.com/ar_foldin..._m_p/99312.htm

....added to the.......

Quick detatch barrel system:

https://www.full30.com/video/c3bfcae...3cdd8285d7454e

https://www.coppercustom.com/shop/pa...ms-hand-guard/

Gives you a setup like this one:

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....the floggings may now commence   :6:   :whip:   :boxer:   .......lmao

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## kyratshooter

Already built an 8" barrel pistol w/8" buffer tube so I can break upper and lower down to a 16" unit that will fit in a book bag, gym bag, or back pack. 

I think I will stop at that level of shrinkage.

Is this like that old Clint Eastwood/Burt Renalds movie in reverse?

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## druid

> Already built an 8" barrel pistol w/8" buffer tube so I can break upper and lower down to a 16" unit that will fit in a book bag, gym bag, or back pack. 
> 
> I think I will stop at that level of shrinkage.
> 
> Is this like that old Clint Eastwood/Burt Renalds movie in reverse?


That's cool.

...and I don't know about that movie. Never watched City Heat so I can't say.

I'm going to build a 16" upper for my current SPR [lower] using this quick release set up...light and tight. I'll add the folding stock adapter later. Now I have to convince the bank manager how much I need the cash LOL

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## jim Glass

Received the AR kit today after a 10 day wait but that is okay.   Took me some time to find the barrel retaining nut.   After opening all the packaging I found the barrel nut is an integral part of the forearm.    Didn't expect that after watching youtube assembly videos.   Lots of shop work going on right now so assembly will need to wait until tonight.

Shipping box was on the small side so I expected one of those 10 or 12 inch barrels.   But the barrel was 16" like I wanted.

A quick check on my 80% lower indicates I did my machine work correctly.  Trigger and hammer fit but have almost "0" clearance.   I may open that up a tad.

I was pleased to see the bolt came pre-assembled.

The receiver handle and A2 front sight should arrive later today.   

Everything is a go.   Stand by for assembly help.   Jim

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## kyratshooter

Looks like a good kit!

I hope you remembered to order an upper vise block!

The barrel extension and nut are usually already together because that is what predetermines your headspace.  And do not use locktite on the barrel ring when you fit it to the receiver.  They tend to glue themselves permanently after being torqued and refuse to ever separate again.

You do not want too much clearance between the receiver sides and the hammer/trigger pin sleeves.  Just enough to clear.  There is an internal spring in the hammer that fits into the center groove of its pin and that is all that retains the pin.  On the trigger pin the legs from the hammer spring fit into the end grooves and hold that pin in place, so the more clearance you have the more the pins can shift in the frame.

Now, remember to watch those captive springs and the little detent plungers.  They can get away from you and there are no extras in the kit.

And when you assemble the trigger be sure and place the disconnector spring in with the big coil DOWN inside the trigger block.  Oddly, if that spring is not in "big coil down" the rifle will refuse to reset after the trigger is pulled. 

Probably just best to sit the laptop on the workbench and click through the You-tube video as you work.  

With your skill set I would estimate 3 hours work ahead, even with stop and go checking of the instructions.  

Good luck.  

And if you get stuck somewhere I am usually up and checking the forum for half the night.  Shoot me a PM if you need too.

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## randyt

dadgum your hides, I got bit by the bug and I don't even care for the ar-15

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## finallyME

There are a lot of youtube videos that go over the build.  ITS tactical does a great job on one, if you want a recommendation.

Also, make sure you know how to take apart and clean the Bolt Carrier group.  There is a tutorial as a sticky on this here forum.  My brother, who wasn't in the military, watched a bunch of youtube and was able to assemble a complete AR.  He did a pretty good job of it.  But the bolt carrier came all assembled.  Not that he couldn't have figured it out himself, but I still showed him how to take it apart, and what specifically he needed to clean.  When I was taught, I had someone yelling at me the whole time, so he got off easy.

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## kyratshooter

> dadgum your hides, I got bit by the bug and I don't even care for the ar-15


It is not my first choice either Randy.  I just wanted a .223 caliber rifle with a high capacity magazine.  I actually wanted a Mossberg Patrol rifle in 5.56.

I got to looking at the prices and realized I could build a full on AR cheaper than buying the Patrol rifle.

It is the building of the rifles that has me hooked.  I love putting these things together and having them work, first time, every time!  I would do one a week if I could afford it!

Built a near copy of my CAR15  dream rifle from my old military days on a pistol action.  Working on a CMP service rifle on one of my uppers, have the M4 utility rifle cranking along doing 1 1/2"@100groups, lots of cheap surplus ammo as well as HP and Soft Point commercial ammo to hunt with. 

I have been sitting here contemplating a build in 6x45mm for the past week.  A .243 based on the 5.56x45 case.  All it will take is a new barrel.  And of course then reloading dies, bunches of .243 bullets, months of load testing....whole days wasted at the range....freaking out the tacticool range rats by showing up in bibs, brogans and a felt fedora and pulling a AR pistol out of the Jeep! 

I'm retired!  This is what I dreamed of for the past 50 years (I started work at 15)

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## Rick

Here's the link for tearing down the bolt. 

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ture-intensive!

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## randyt

> It is not my first choice either Randy.  I just wanted a .223 caliber rifle with a high capacity magazine.  I actually wanted a Mossberg Patrol rifle in 5.56.
> 
> I got to looking at the prices and realized I could build a full on AR cheaper than buying the Patrol rifle.
> 
> It is the building of the rifles that has me hooked.  I love putting these things together and having them work, first time, every time!  I would do one a week if I could afford it!
> 
> Built a near copy of my CAR15  dream rifle from my old military days on a pistol action.  Working on a CMP service rifle on one of my uppers, have the M4 utility rifle cranking along doing 1 1/2"@100groups, lots of cheap surplus ammo as well as HP and Soft Point commercial ammo to hunt with. 
> 
> I have been sitting here contemplating a build in 6x45mm for the past week.  A .243 based on the 5.56x45 case.  All it will take is a new barrel.  And of course then reloading dies, bunches of .243 bullets, months of load testing....whole days wasted at the range....freaking out the tacticool range rats by showing up in bibs, brogans and a felt fedora and pulling a AR pistol out of the Jeep! 
> ...



that's all fun stuff, I like to build a firearm just as much as shooting them. To be fair though I have a few from the last heyday of the surplus frenzy that I have never shot yet. I'm embarrassed to admit it. Always something else coming up, one of these days.

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## Batch

The AR-15 is my favorite cross word puzzle! To non-hunting folks it is America's rifle.

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## jim Glass

OK, I have the lower receiver assembled complete.   Had some difficulty with the trigger mechanism.   After about an hour I figured out the fillet radius in the fire control pocket that I milled was a bit large.  Used a 3/8 endmill to make the pocket.   Went back with a 1/4" endmill to move the radius away from the hammer cross pin, just a little bit.   Works perfect now.

Here's my problem.   Found the barrel nut inside the forearm along with a lock ring.  Problem is I cannot remove the nut from the forearm.  I'm quite sure the barrel nut needs to be torqed tight and one of the holes needs to align with a hole in the receiver for the gas tube.  Unless I'm missing something the nut needs to be removed.   I removed the set screw completely.  The nut seems loose but only turns about 10 degrees in either direction then makes contact with something solid.   I cannot locate the cause.   Any ideas.

Never mind, I got it.   I think someone at Daytona Tactical ran that setscrew into the threads.   Looking closely through a magnifier I found the threads were dinged while looking down the setscrew hole.  I went through the setscrew hole with  small die grinder and ground away the dinged threads.   It came right off after that.

Just now ordered an upper receiver block.

I'm about 45 minutes away from having this thing finished.    Thanks, Jim

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## kyratshooter

What do you think about the torque specs on the barrel nut Jim?

30-80 ft/lbs.  

I got a kick out of a 50ft/lb range the first time I saw that.  

Essentially, one could simply hang a small child from the end of a box end wrench and accomplish that spec!

Make sure you get a good alignment on one of those holes in the barrel nut and do not have any binding on the gas tube.  The gas lug on the bolt comes at that thing real fast and telescopes with it.  It needs to be lined up well.

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## druid

here's the best and most simple build video I've seen yet:

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## kyratshooter

Sorry Druid, but this one has got you beat all to pieces!

http://www.tnarmsco.com/building-an-ar-rifle/

And she does the whole thing without chipping a nail!

I grew up hearing girls with that accent.  Sounds like angels talking.

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## jim Glass

AR-15 semi finished.jpgBarrel tightening.jpgAR-15 complete.jpgThe video I'm using says the barrel should be torqued to 35 to 50 ft-lb.   They would tightened the barrel so the gas holes were aligned and the torque was in range.   The system Daytona has, you simply align the holes and tighten a lock nut to secure.   I'm going to make a step pin to align the holes then torque the lock nut.   Of course this will need to wait until get the receiver block, ordered from "cheaper than dirt.com".   I ordered a receiver carry handle from them and got it 2 days.  Hopefully the receiver block will do the same.

I'll post pictures of the project and some of the tools I made for assembly.   The torque wrench I have was purchased in the 1960's to work on my 283 CI Chevy.   

UPDATE:   Instead of doing shop work I decided to continue the AR-15 build and now it is ready to test fire.  Probably do that tomorrow at  my nephews place out in the country.

I stand corrected on the barrel nut.  It is used like any other barrel nut where you torque the nut and hope a hole aligns with the hole in the receiver.   I held the rifle in my milling machine vice (with soft alum jaws) and tightened it.   I'll bet I'm pretty close to 40 ft-lb but I'll check when I get the receiver block.   I made an alignment pin to fit the nut and receiver hole (they were different sizes) and special spanner wrench.   I tightened the nut then checked alignment and stopped once aligned.   The ring nut is apparently to lock the forearm in place along with the setscrew.

Took a little time to install the bolt.

The Daytona Tactical AR-15 kit and Anderson 80% lower I think is pretty topnotch.   The only problem I had was a few clearance issues in the lower receiver in the fire control pocket.  Drawing said to use a 7/16 endmill and I used a 3/8 endmill and the fillets were still to large particularly the hammer pin holes.  I went in with a 1/4" endmill to give the hammer  more straight wall and that problem was solved.

I'm rather fond of the bare aluminum finish on the lower receiver.   Down the road would like to buy another receiver already black and  then
get a 300 blackout upper.   Oh gee, that will mean 2 guns???  Jim

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## kyratshooter

So you are using the tower sight way out there on the end.

That's unique.

It does extend our sight radius.

When you get the rear sight remember that you zero an AR by setting the rear sight at 100m and adjusting the front sight for elevation.  From there you can use the dial on the rear sight to dial in the yardage if needed. 

It may sound funny, but I have found that if you bottom out the rear sight and count the clicks until you reach the opposite end of the scale, then count back half the clicks to the middle of the adjustment range, you will usually be on the paper at 100m.  
same thing with windage.  

When I installed my carry handle rear sight I used that method and I was only 1" off at 25m and it dialed in quickly at 100m.  

With the AK you have a default battle-sight zero, with the AR you have to learn what your battle-sight zero is.

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## jim Glass

Test fired the AR-15 and it worked perfectly.    Almost no recoil and very smooth.   I used some .223 reload rounds purchased last weekend at a gun show.   Had one misfire but cycled that round again and it fired ok.   I sort of fell in 
love with the AR-15.   It seems to always have great feel.   My nephew didn't have paper targets but the gun sights
are way out of calibration.  I'll get it sighted in when I can get to a shooting range.    Now my nephew wants an
AR-15.

This project went extremely well and appreciate everyone's guidance and suggestions.
Thanks to everyone, Jim

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## kyratshooter

Like we said, first time, every time!  

First build on an 80% upper and success from the first shot. And we did it with less than 100 posts in the thread  :clap: 

Now aren't you glad you let us talk you into this?

Jim if the sights are "way off" take the rifle to your shop and remove the upper, take out the BCG and set the thing in a swivel vice.

Find an object or a spot on the wall about 50 feet away (actually the farther away the better) and look down the bore and center that object in the bore and lock the vise down.  

Now move the sights until they line up on the same object you have centered in the bore. You will probably not be on target vertically but you can bet you will be pretty good for windage and at least on the paper at 35m. 

And remember that for your initial sight in you set the rear sight on calibration range and move the front sight up or down to make the adjustments.  Once you are calibrated you can dial in the range on the rear sight dial. 

In fact, I have done this so much that if I were hunting pigs from a blind 50 yards away I would be confident enough to bore sight and hunt at that range if I absolutely had to without a trip to the range.  I would not trust it at longer ranges but out to 50m I could bore sight and kill a pig. 

And remember the sights are way above the bore so a 35 yard zero has you set for 200m on the rear sight dial.  It is not like a rifle with the scope only 1 inch over the bore where you use a 25yard boresight and zero.

Many ranges now have a 30-35m firing line just because of these rifles.

The .223 shoots so flat that if you zero at 200m you will be one inch high at 100m,  four inches low at 300m.  So out to 300m you can hold dead on and hit a pig.

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## jim Glass

> Now aren't you glad you let us talk you into this?
> 
> .


Yes, and I think you guys enjoyed spending my money to.     :Winkiss: 

Down the road a few months I think I'll buy a .300 blackout barrel and upper receiver for hog hunting.  But, even sooner would like to have a 22 LR bolt and magazine.     Jim

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## kyratshooter

If you decide to go with the .22lr conversion kit rather than a dedicated .22 upper think about buying a cheap rear sight to zero to the .22lr cartridge.  

Take off the AR carry handle, install the .22lr sight.  It takes about 30 seconds and your rail hardware will return to zero very well.

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