# Self Sufficiency/Living off the Land or Off the Grid > Gardening >  How am I supposed to cook inside!?

## marylp

:Confused:   Sorry everyone but I am really new at this. My home is completely electric. I have all kinds of candles and that oil used in tiki torches and oil lamps.  Most say to use in well ventilated areas, outdoor use only.  What if there is something where we cant go outside? I thought I can fashion some kind of rack that can fit over a candle to at least heat up a can of whatever. If all I had were scented candles or those citronella ones or an oil lamp will those chemicals poison our air or our food? What is something safe we can burn inside? What if I cant open a door or window for ventilation?
Any help would be great! Thanks in advance!!

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

I would use olive oil or a vegie oil lamp/stove

----------


## marylp

Are those special lamps or can I use the ones I already have? What, just pour in veggie or olive oil and light?

----------


## dawg69

How about Sterno cans?  They are generally used inside by caterers so they must not have too bad of fumes.  Pretty cheap too, at about a buck a piece.

----------


## laughing beetle

> Sorry everyone but I am really new at this. My home is completely electric. I have all kinds of candles and that oil used in tiki torches and oil lamps.  Most say to use in well ventilated areas, outdoor use only.  What if there is something where we cant go outside? I thought I can fashion some kind of rack that can fit over a candle to at least heat up a can of whatever. If all I had were scented candles or those citronella ones or an oil lamp will those chemicals poison our air or our food? What is something safe we can burn inside? What if I cant open a door or window for ventilation?
> Any help would be great! Thanks in advance!!


I have used a coleman campstove inside when we lost power in the winter.  I just set the coleman up on top of the regular stove and cracked a window for ventilation.  I didnt notice any more fumes than from what i get from the gas stove( meaning no fumes).  the campstoves run on the small green propane tanks sold at Wal-mart and most sporting goods stores. :Smile:

----------


## crashdive123

Marylp - I would avoid using the fuel for your tiki torches inside (or any other fuel that says use outdoors only)  Some of those fuels have additives for repelling insects that would not be wise to use indoors.  Also, they tend to give off a lot of soot.  Using candles (without additives like citronella), homemade or store bought camp stoves will work fine for what you are describing.  Not sure what part of the world you live in (I'm in Florida) - the last thing I want when it is very warm (read hot) inside and I can't go outside is to add a lot of "scents" to my environment.  It can rapidly become overpowering.  The BIG caution is to make sure that you allow for some ventilation.  As Laughing Beetle said - crack a window.  Any time you cook with a heat source that will deplete oxygen, you want ventilation.  

Hope we've been able to help you.  Hang around for a while, maybe we can learn from you as well.  There's an introduction section where you can tell us a little about yourself.  You can find it here http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

----------


## Sourdough

If I had an all electric home, I would learn about EMP, and supplement the all electric with alternatives.

----------


## Rick

You can also invest in food products that don't need to be heated. There are a lot of pre-cooked items available in the grocery stores as well as as pre-packed meals like MREs and their equivalents. If the temperatures are warm, you can also rely on meals like gazpacho (small serving size because you can't refrigerate with power out) that are incredibly healthy and taste great. I love gazpacho!

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

> Are those special lamps or can I use the ones I already have? What, just pour in veggie or olive oil and light?


vegi oil lamps should have shallow vessels (not a tiki Can) you see parafin oil
overheats and becomes explosive at a lower temperature than olive oil. I have experimented extensively with sorts of lamp/stoves. The most useful
and "SAFE" combination for indoor use is a shallow gravel filled olive oil burning lamp like this one...Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## tsitenha

Marylp, I would acquired a decent propane stove that will "cook" any foods,
candles, oil lamp/stove produce a cooler flame (comparatively) that will take a  long time to warm let alone "cook" food. 
The last thing you want in a stress situation is to aggravate the scenario with food poisoning by under cooking, meats especially.
As mentioned keep a window open to ventilate or better yet a set of windows to actually move the CO/CO2 away from you.
A small/medium sized propane stove will cook the food faster and with better heat control and thus subjecting you to a shorter exhaust exposure. Try acquiring a solid stand to support the weight of the stove plus the largest pot/pan with food that you will reasonably use. 
Also keep a supply of precooked foods that you normally would eat and be sure to have pots and pans suitable to do the job. We are slowly discovering that most cans are no longer safe to use as a cooking/warming receptacle as they are lined with resins, plastics etc.. that do react with heat sources and leach chemical compounds into your meal or water, so use pots or pans to cook with please.  
This all part of "preparedness".
Do "cook" outdoors if it is safe to do so, we cook over a campfire or BBQ all year round and we live in northern Kanata

----------


## marylp

Thank You so much everyone, so far I have so many ideas, but hopefully never have to get to that "worst case senario"

----------


## tsitenha

Marylp, if you adequately practice for that "worst case scenario", it will soon become second nature ans actually far easier on you and yours if it does come to that.

----------


## bulrush

A natural gas stove is the best answer. It is designed to cook indoors and works when the power is out (light with a match). 

Candles might be ok to cook indoors for short periods, but if SHTF, then you will be boiling water almost all day (to drink), and that might make the air bad, not to mention you will use LOTS of candles quickly.

Your next best bet is to cook on a screened in porch, like in the winter. So fumes will stay outside but you will be somewhat sheltered from wind. 

My friend's dad used to heat their home with a kerosene stove in the winter time. Each time I would go over there I would get sick from carbon monoxide poisoning, so I had to stop going over there in the winter. Apparently they thought the symptoms were a normal part of life, or simply ignored them. Kerosene stoves should NOT be used indoors. They are rated only for outdoor or use in a well-ventilated area like a garage with a window open.

Everyone has to be in denial about something.

I'm pretty sure propane must be vented properly, you just can't cook on it. Propane water heaters must be vented properly to meet code. That goes for the propane camp stoves.

My rule for ventilation is 100 square inches of open window for every 100 square feet of floor space in the cooking area.

----------


## Merriwether

A battery-powered carbon monoxide sensor could save your life. 

-Merriwether

----------


## nell67

> A battery-powered carbon monoxide sensor could save your life. 
> 
> -Merriwether


 You can say that again.....

----------


## crashdive123

A battery-powered carbon monoxide sensor could save your life.

Couldn't resist.

----------


## nell67

Thanks Crash!

----------


## klkak

Buy yourself a Jetboil with a couple of cans of fuel. Then buy the battery powered carbon monoxide sensor. There problem solved.

----------


## Rick

Why would she boiling water all day? She could store water, use a filter pump, use purification tablets or bleach. So many options. Boiling water is just one more chore that shouldn't have to be done. 

Kerosene isn't a bad deal if the wicks are kept trimmed and the flame is adjusted correctly. It probably wasn't CO2/CO that was giving you problems but the particulates and by products of incomplete combustion. Kerosene requires some knowledge and maintenance. I have a heater and several lamps that I've used during a winter time power outage and have never had problems. 

The difference between propane, or liquid petroleum gas (LPG), and natural gas comes down to their portability, compression, energy efficiency, and cost. However, there is generally no difference when it comes to performance in appliances for heating, cooking, or drying. The mixture of natural gas is comprised of propane, along with other gases like methane, butane, ethane, and pentane. It doesn't matter if your stove operates on propane or natural gas. There is no difference.

----------


## Wild Child

we generally cook outside if there is a power outage... for the few minutes it takes for my backpacker stove to boil water it is just not worth the risk of cooking indoors with naptha - only my opinion though

That said, I have a candlier by UCO (The Candle Lantern company) and you can boil water on it. It is a little slow but I would feel safe using that inside.

----------


## Riverrat

For me it is second nature, I have a covered deck with our BBQ on it. We use it year around in all types of weather. I also have two colomen stoves and a backpacker stove. It is nice to have a varity of ways to cook. I can even go to the neghibours and cook on the wood stove in the garage. Gotta love living in the country.

----------


## Ole WV Coot

> For me it is second nature, I have a covered deck with our BBQ on it. We use it year around in all types of weather. I also have two colomen stoves and a backpacker stove. It is nice to have a varity of ways to cook. I can even go to the neghibours and cook on the wood stove in the garage. Gotta love living in the country.


Covered and screened deck, BBQ and the last 16' glassed in. A few folks over and winter or summer it ain't bad. Crank up the generator if we go inside for the AC, furnace or whatever. You really don't have to spend a fortune for a generator to run a microwave, fridge or blower on a wood stove, you won't pull that much and blower, microwave & lights make things nice, not to mention burst pipes in cold weather. You can lose more food if you live out in the country like I do than a few bucks spent on a generator. :Smile:

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

Thats good avice, I dont have a generator but i think it would be nice to have one . what Brand is a good kind to get?

----------


## crashdive123

There are so many brands on the market.  I've got an 1800 watt Coleman and a 6750 watt Generac.  It all depends on how much power you need and how much noise you're willing to tolerate.  If you want quiet, Honda has some....a bit too spendy for my liking, but they are quiet.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

Ill check into that ,we have alot of power outages here. i might need one

----------


## crashdive123

Most of the ones at your big box stores will probably have Briggs & Straton engines.  One thing to keep in mind is fuel consumption.  The bigger the engine, the more fuel it will burn.  I ran my little 1800 watt generator during Fay for about 8 hours.  Powered the fridge, small TV, couple of fans and a lamp.  Burned about 2 gallons of gas.  My bigger one would have gone through about 4 for the same load and length of time.

Also consider what type of fuel will be best for you.  Gas, diesel, propane.....lot's of choices.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

Diesel interests me , the making of "Bio diesel" from vegie oil could be a handy situation
if you could get plenty of wild seed for oil.

----------


## Gray Wolf

Here's another option if you don't want to spend the money on a generator, and the maintenance of it. I bought a few years ago, two 1500w inverters. They connect to your car battery. We have 2 cars and my Harley. 1 of the inverters will run the fridge, 3 light weight PVC oscillating pole fans, and a small tv. I also have two 50' industrial gauge extension cords that have outlets every 8 feet. For cooking I have two Esbit stoves that are safe to use even in a car. I bought the 1500w inverters that come in a hard case with all connection cables on sale at the time at Sams for $99 each.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

didnt know about those , thats a good idea

----------


## Ole WV Coot

Lots of options and I use my small one. Like Crash said, very little fuel and I don't power everything in the house. I did take some #10 and tack too an old extra long screwdriver for the ground. Never tried an inverter and my work van had a Onan that used gas or propane and could run a couple of houses. I used it in a rescue one evening, kid got washed into a storm drain, and the local FD didn't have zip. It powered 4 pumps, lights, compressor and hot air heater to warm the water, the kid and air. We did good, but didn't get paid overtime.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

thats interesting, i need to see what i can find.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

This is an Indian Oil Stove, an exelent alternative to any other method.

----------


## bulrush

Well, Mary, you have a lot of opinions to choose from here.

----------


## marylp

I sure do! What a great help everyone has been!!

----------


## mattco

Check out Petromax or Britelyt pressurized liquid fuel lanterns. I believe the Petromax are kerosene and the Britelyt are multi-fuel. 

I think they both make an adapter stove to perch on top of the lantern that could work in a pinch.

Their products are not cheap, but have a good reputation, and they look good.

For USA source, check out:
http://www.britelyt.com/
http://www.petromax.com/

Still, I'd be tempted to just have some propane or isobutane cartridges on hand and anything from a backpacker stove to some car-camping dual-burner unit available, depending on your risk assessment and needs. Cartidge stoves are pretty close to foolproof, smell proof, and the cartridges will stand storage for long periods without leaks or fumes. Heck, they even make little lanterns to run off those isobutane cartridges.

A CO alarm would be good, as would cooking outdoors or cracking the window open a bit, depending on what you're using as a fuel source and burner.

Get some sort of decent water filtering, purification, and storage system in place so you don't have to waste fuel boiling water.

----------


## Badawg

Old school white gas coleman stoves are great to have around as a "backup" They will burn white gas, Unleaded, and even kerosene. Do buy a couple extra generators and a pump cup too. You can find them in garage sales and swap meets for under 20 bucks too. What to look for in a used one? Rust is bad...Look in the tank for sludge and rust. the older ones have brass tanks which are really cool!

I tend to like the old stuff as it's easily repairable...

----------


## adurbin

Make one of these!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_LKCFlG6k

----------


## wareagle69

i agrre about the water thing if you are stuck indoors with no power why would you be boiling water? if you are hooked up to municipal water then it will still work as the city will have generaters to keep the pump stations working at worst resort you should have water stored anyways , as rick pointed out as long as there is complete combustion you will be fine to cook most houses are not air tight except the new ones, me personally i have gotten used to eating canned food cold , but sterno is a great resource i aslo have a wood stove for heat so i can heat a can or cook with cast iron- but if you are in a situation where you cannot open windows as mary asked then eat food that you do not have to cook although if you cannot open a window i would think that you are in more of a bug out situation

----------


## AKS

> i agrre about the water thing if you are stuck indoors with no power why would you be boiling water?situation


It must be one of those crazy coffee drinker things.  Got no power?  Well, still need those 5 cups a day, so figure a way to make the water hot or deal with mr. grumpy. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## crashdive123

> i agrre about the water thing if you are stuck indoors with no power why would you be boiling water? if


Although there are probably back-up generators, a loss in pressure in a city system will allow contaminants to enter the lines (that's why there are often boil water alerts during outages).  Also if the cause of the outage was flooding, it may be weeks (or longer) before the pumps can be brought back on line.  If the outage was due to breakage in lines (earthquake, tornado, gas station explosion), again contaminants are able to enter the drinking water system, and again it may be a while before service is resotred.

----------


## wareagle69

> Although there are probably back-up generators, a loss in pressure in a city system will allow contaminants to enter the lines (that's why there are often boil water alerts during outages).  Also if the cause of the outage was flooding, it may be weeks (or longer) before the pumps can be brought back on line.  If the outage was due to breakage in lines (earthquake, tornado, gas station explosion), again contaminants are able to enter the drinking water system, and again it may be a while before service is resotred.


that also depends on how the town is fed some are pump fed some are gravity fed when the power was out in the big one a few years ago i was still able to get waster 48 hours later if the power goes out fill up all available containers and tub and such quickley then you have water for washing and critters and flushing the crapper and such w/o going into your potable water reserves

----------


## canid

rick in emergencies pathogenic organisms are no always the only dangerous contaminant. in the event of flooding gasoline, oils, pesticides and herbicides can pollute much or all available drinking water. if levels are high enough, what good might a filter do if it won't last and you don't have spares.

i know i push it a lot,  but do not forget the importance of the ability to distill water.

----------


## crashdive123

Sarge - Move to General Emergency Preparedness

----------


## RichNH

Actually we just had a big power outage here in NH a few weeks ago.  I was speaking with the wife of a friend over the phone (he was away on a business trip at the time).  I offered to lend them my generator which I no longer needed at the moment because our power had been restored.  At first she wasn't that interested but then started thinking of the possibilities.  So I brought it over and we hooked it up.

The FIRST thing that was plugged in?  The coffee maker...  For that there was much joy in the household.

One important thing to consider in a survival situation is moral.  For many people a hot cup of something really hits the spot and helps nurture a positive attitude.  

It's the little things sometimes you see... 

Rich

----------


## crashdive123

Coffee and bacon.....the two best survival foods out there.

----------


## bulrush

I just had an idea. I would define an extra bedroom as the cooking area. I would keep a window open in this room, and otherwise keep the door shut at all times. This way, fumes go OUT the window and not into the house. Or use a 3 season porch which is screened to do your cooking in.

----------


## edr730

I cook on propane all the time indoors. People in the city use natural gas indoors. Few people use venting fans for the stove in the winter. Many people have heated their entire homes, for days, without vents, with their propane stoves when the electricity was out. It's the same propane in an outside grill. Many people use unvented propane, for heat, in ice shanties or working areas or tents. I don't think it's a good idea to use in small areas when you sleep, but I've done it many times. It's better to turn it down low and better just to turn it off completely. You can drag your propane grill inside and use it. If you grill or fry foods on it, then your house might get a bit smoky as would your electric stove. You can use naphtha Coleman stoves too, but they aren't as clean and there is the danger of gasoline in your home.  If you use regular gasoline in them you will need the grey type that is made for the unleaded gasoline. If you use unleaded gas in a Coleman stove that is not made for that purpose (green) it will work, but the high flame that keeps going high then wants to go out, while you start it, will scare you to death. You usually have to jiggle the stove while trying to keep the flame going for it to catch. Once you get it going it will burn normal. It makes the stove go bad quicker and you'll have to rebuild it sooner. I am not saying that there is absolutely no toxicity, but propane is far cleaner than the kerosene burners people have used in their homes all winter. Precautionary measures like sensors are like seat belts. It's a better idea to use them.

----------


## palm stalker

> Coffee and bacon.....the two best survival foods out there.


umm and bisquits :Big Grin:

----------


## trooper

Go on a fast for several days... problem solved... lol...
Got a fireplace? Cook over that my dad cooked a roast in the fireplace when our power went out for 3 days, made stew and soup Mmm that was good, dad even made bacon in a cast iron skillet, now if you cant cook bacon that is a serious problem.

----------


## smoke

I have a coleman camp stove that runs on propane this has worked well for me in the past. I am all electric also. The small propane tanks last along time and they are easy to store

----------


## marylp

Hey Smoke, How do you know the propane tanks really last a long time. I currently have about 30 of them. I buy 2 or 3 three everytime I visit the sporting goods store or walmart. What is the oldest you have used? Thanks in advance.  Mary

----------


## crashdive123

Mary - there is no shelf life on propane - as long as it doesn't leak.  I've used some of the little green Coleman canisters that were about 10 years old.  The only difference I noticed was the little sticker that had a price of 89 cents on it.

----------


## marylp

Wow, I am paying bout 2.50 each for them now, they were 2.39 just a last year.

----------


## crashdive123

During my last inventory I noticed that I still had some that had price stickers of just over a dollar.  But yeah - I get any new ones from Wally World too.  About $2.50 or so a canister.  I'm also keeping my eye out for the larger propane bottles.  Found one the other day that somebody was throwing out.  Picked it up and turned it in at one of the propane exchange places - got a full, refurbished bottle for not much more than a fill up.

----------


## erunkiswldrnssurvival

> we generally cook outside if there is a power outage... for the few minutes it takes for my backpacker stove to boil water it is just not worth the risk of cooking indoors with naptha - only my opinion though
> 
> That said, I have a candlier by UCO (The Candle Lantern company) and you can boil water on it. It is a little slow but I would feel safe using that inside.


I use an oil stove, with a stable fire proof(insulated) base, the stove smells like french fries.

----------


## Rick

Mary - Just make certain the tanks are stored upright. They CAN leak if they are on their side.

EDIT: I forgot to add that storing propane tanks indoors is pretty dangerous. Propane is heavier than air (like gasoline) so it tends to "pond" if a tank leaks. Add an ignition source and "POOF".

----------


## marylp

Thanks Rick, I am having trouble having a place to hide them.

----------


## crashdive123

> Thanks Rick, I am having trouble having a place to hide them.


What type of setting - house, apartment, rural, urban?

----------


## Rick

Mary - Instead of acquiring a lot of 20 lbs cylinders, would it be more cost effective to have a commercial 500 gallon tank installed? Or whatever size is prudent for your needs?

----------


## LowKey

Having just recently had to 'survive' almost totally unprepared, no power for nearly 2 weeks, in winter, with only a tiny generator keeping just the furnace running (and that at a very low heat setting), being 'stoveless' was part of a good reality check (read "Kick in the Pants" which is why I found this place).

We cooked outdoors. Mostly on the BBQ but also on a camp stove. The camp stove set off the garage fire alarm so outside it went. 

A buddy of mine would have probably died during the same storm without battery-powered CO alarms. He had inadvertently put his genny upwind of his house with the prevailing wind pushing exhaust fumes into the eave vents. He was already feeling woozy when his alarms went off.

I've used sterno type stoves. They aren't exactly what you'd call high-heat and certainly not something I'd want to have to rely on for the long term.

A lot of today's gas stoves have safeties on them that require electricity to open the gas valve when lighting. Be very careful when selecting a modern gas stove. Ask if the stove can be lit with a match and no power.

Also, it makes a difference if your gas comes from a street line or a stand-alone tank. It would take a major disruption to stop a street line, but it could be shut off as a safety procedure in a heavily damaged neighborhood - then you are SOL. A tank has to be rationed. Especially if roads are impassible for a refill.

----------


## Ag Nettogrof

Some years back a friend of mine had a camper that a tree had fell on and destroyed. I was helping him clean up the mess and noticed it had a small propane cook stove. 3 burners and an oven. I asked him what he was going to do with it. Said he didn't need it that I could have it.

I've only ever had to use it twice, last time was during the snow storm we had on 03/13/93 that knocked out the power for only 6 days. It still works perfectly and is ready to go if needed.

I always keep several propane bottles filled because we're total electric also, and have an infra-red gas heater as back-up heat. I also have a small generator but it isn't big enough for everything.

Ag.

----------


## Chris

Why not a cast iron wood stove?

My parents had one, and living out in the woods they were often the last people to get electricity restored after a storm. I remember growing up at times we'd make mac & cheese or even pizza on the wood stove. 

There are two ways, you can keep it open and cook with a cast iron dutch over right in it (or hanging infront of it). Or close it up and if the top is wide enough, use it like a range top. 

Plus, it is also a heating source. It was in our basement and it could heat the whole thing up. Cast iron just radiats heat like crazy.

Of course, you need a chimney, and the stove, it isn't cheap. Cheaper would be getting an outdoor model (outdoor brick oven really) made, no having to put a chimney in. 

Honestly though, I cannot imagine building a house without a wood stove inside of it. Retrofiting might not be an option, but for new construction, definitely worth it.

----------


## Aurelius95

> Hey Smoke, How do you know the propane tanks really last a long time. I currently have about 30 of them. I buy 2 or 3 three everytime I visit the sporting goods store or walmart. What is the oldest you have used? Thanks in advance.  Mary


I had a buddy at work give me his 20 lb propane tank (the big white ones used for outside gas grills).  I then went to Bass Pro Shop and bought a 5 foot converter hose for my Coleman stove for about $20.  Now I can use the big tank for propane for car camping, as well as if we need it for home cooking.  

I have found that the little green tanks do not last all that long.  I always bring 2 or 3 camping with me because I'm not sure how long one of them will last, especially if it is not brand new.

----------


## Rick

I didn't know they made such an adapter. Can you post a picture or a link? I'm wondering if it will work with other "gas" stoves like an MSR or Brunton camping/backpacking stove. That would be a great deal for power outages, etc.

----------


## crashdive123

> I didn't know they made such an adapter. Can you post a picture or a link? I'm wondering if it will work with other "gas" stoves like an MSR or Brunton camping/backpacking stove. That would be a great deal for power outages, etc.


Rick - not sure if it fits other brands, but this is the hose I use for my 20 lb bottles to hook them up to my Coleman propane appliances (stove and lantern) http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colem...ategoryid=2036  I picked mine up at WalMart (several years ago).

----------

